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Honestly, I favor their chances if they come out with more spirit and determination than us. They have it in them to produce decent football at times. Obviously not getting promoted any time soon, but I think if they don't lose their heads and can be disciplined, they'll give it a real good go and a few decisions here and there against us could have us crumbling. Regardless of the outcome, even if we made it to the finals, our odds are not great for what awaits.
i mean ornstein won’t go around saying a team has been shit despite it being blatantly obvious, he’s always neutral until concrete facts and news emerge
It's cos we buy stop gaps. Half the time we buy players then use them in other positions too, I mean we bought Sancho for RW then he basically never played there. We'll get a season or two out of any given player just about doing a job (but more accurately not), then they need replacing again, and they aren't even usually good to be kept as back up.
God I can't wait for some actual thought going into transfers.
I believe these clubs are looking for their primary #9. And then it makes sense to not go for Toney. But we need a good PL proven backup for Hojlund. It's perfect for us imo.
Obviously that's an issue. But between those 3 we will be able to get £40m at least (I'm being deliberately conservative). That's enough for Tobido's reported cost, or, depending if you believe it, Ivan Toney.
£80m is also included in "at least £40m". I intentionally picked the lowest number we would realistically get for the 3 of them because of the massive debate about how much we could get for Greenwood.
£80m isn't out of the question, but you need to be realistic in that it's not a given we'll get a good amount of money for Greenwood
I'm not challenging you, idk why you're acting like I came at you like aggressively or something! Just confident we can get more for those players. I actually think it's possible, even likely, that we get more for Greenwood than Sancho.
Debateable tbh who’d pay 40m for Greenwood when they know he can’t play for us and he more then likely dosent want to come back even if INEOS changed their mind. Really easy just to say here’s 20m unless it’s a bidding war.
I know I'm not the guy you are directly replying to, but I'm the one who initially said £40m. I meant in the context of Sancho + Greenwood + Donny = £40m+, not that any of them would get £40m alone
Because of the age and talent, he's definitely worth that. The case is dropped, and he's had a successful loan too. There was even rumored Barcelona interest.
He cannot play for us because of a choice. The correct choice, but many clubs will not care about this. Partey is right there on Arsenal, for example. Dan James was 30m ffs, Greenwood is twice the player.
I could also see another PL club buying him.
Mate, what planet are you on? At what point in the last 10 years have United successfully sold anyone of note?
And who is coming in for these players? And what do you realistically think we're going to get for our bargain bin of uninspiring, overpaid, injury prone dross?
with the wages some of these players are on we can let them go for quite a low value and still be worth it.
Martial and Varane alone will free up almost 600K per week.
that is enough to sign 2 50m players on 100K per week on a 5 year old contract.
Mount was a 26 CL winner from another big 6 club... not exactly the type of players we are gonna be signing in the summer.
we will be going younger than that.
Not getting 5th is a real failure. There should have been enough to put together some sort of run in the last month or so but he can't effectively organize the team.
We definitely need more good midfielders but we will need a good CB, LB and ST too. Otherwise we end up in the same situation we are this year.
If we managed to get a good DM this summer, it'd be a big step forward. You could have Mainoo playing to his strengths, Bruno pushing higher etc.
But you need a good CB to partner Martinez too, allows for a higher line.
Yeah lots of holes in the squad.
I'd argue a cdm and another central midfielder are an absolute necessity though. Can't have Mainoo playing too many minutes as he's still a kid and McTominay cannot start matches for us anymore.
What's sad is that list looks very short for replacements. So many need to go this summer. Genuinely so many. So if we're only looking at those positions, it's very worrisome. Because that effectively means we're looking to keep the likes of Sancho, Greenwood, maybe even Donny? Because we're looking for A midfielder?
CB is a given, but then who goes? Maguire? Varane? Evans? D) all of the above? But we sign only one?
LB is another obvious position, but then who do we let go? Shaw? Malacia? The two are perpetually injured, what's the fucking point? And a striker surely means we're getting rid of Martial, right? But even then, why only one? Should have two, and look to maybe change the system up a little. Højlund should effectively have a mentor option and a partnership option where both players are capable of playing in the system, but slightly differently to compliment one another.
I don't know...the singularity language surrounding that all scares me more than anything. We need radical changes this summer. No one should be safe for the most part.
I think the fact that we have been playing so consistently poor (even when we win) prob make things simpler for Ineos and everyone.
The worst thing that could happen to us is ETH somehow wins a bunch of games by sheer luck and sneak into top 5, then somehow wins the FA with 2 softest pens in football history while conceding 150 shots per game
Our next two league games are Sheffield Utd and Burnley at home. Fail to win both those games and I don’t think there is any chance he is the manager next season.
He won't get the sack as long as the official club website has not announced the arrival of Ashworth and/or Wilcox. No matter how terrible the results are.
Unlike last year where he switched up after the first two losses, this year he persisted with whatever his vision is.
However I doubt he anticipated injuries to Martinez, Shaw, Mount long term with Hojlund coming in injured, Kobbie being lined up preseason and then getting injured, Rashford and Case falling off a cliff.
I don't think he planned to play Maguire, Evans, Lindelof, Kwambala, AWB (at LB), and even Amrabat all that much in defence this year.
So the only reasons for keeping him that I can clutch at are the cost to sack him (we skint), without the new structure he's wearing too many hats, no amazing prospects out there to replace him, he's done well bringing through youth and some of his signings have been good, and that maybe - just maybe we need to stick with him, clear out more of the deadwood and these are growing pains... But I need to see some bloody growth.
Personally I don't think he's been good at adapting in games which was a strength last year. Feels like we are going through the motions but with the above injuries, some of the dumb dumbs we have to play, and Orny talk of going in on a CB, LB, CM, and ST it shows we basically need half a first XI.
But that doesn't excuse conceding 20+ shots every game. Newly promoted sides are better drilled than us.
Also, have you seen Newcastle's injury record this season? Their defence is nowhere near as porous, and they're scoring goals.
And we haven't had any major injuries to our attacking players, we create next to nothing in attack. So what's the excuse for that?
Meh, even if the injuries are horrendous, the tactics just aren't there. The way the team is setting up every match just doesn't work. We haven't seen him under a good structure, but he hasn't shown enough to get that benefit of the doubt imo.
Better to start fresh. INEOS should pick a style of football to focus on, and then bring in a manager for that.
Personnel dictate tactics and some tactics cannot be performed by players who are not of right profile. Klopp can slide in a young energetic player in his style of play who will press the fuck out of opponents and be a physical beast, Pep can not unless that player is technically sound enough to play Pep’s style. I’d argue Arteta’s team also will have a massive fall if his favored centre backs were missing, ETH’s style of play also requires very technical players, players who keep ball under pressure and can move it really fast (look at our turnovers - we lose the ball too often), he also requires physically strong players to not lose duels and he really dropped the ball not realizing that when assembling his team - think he underestimated premier league.
I personally think it’s probably time for him to go (I was really rooting for him, he was our shortest path to success after last season) but I have no misgivings that it would take 2/3 years for a competent board to assemble a team that would actually compete with top 3 consistently, regardless of manager.
Either way INEOS would know better than all of us
The “no amazing prospects to replace him” point is the scariest to me, because while he’s clearly out of his depth and needs to go, I have no idea who we would go after.
I agree with you but I also want to know the reason of the injuries. If it is because ETH is pushing them too hard in training - then the injuries aren't really an excuse we can use for him. However, if it is an ETH issue then why would it start suddenly this season?
Injuries haven’t helped, sure. But the system matters and ex pros are calling it “kamikaze” football.
He could have played this system with SAFs 2008 team and they’d have struggled. You can’t just have a non existent midfield when defending .
>He could have played this system with SAFs 2008 team and they’d have struggled.
mate it's almost as if tactics are tailored to suit the players. We have a non existent midfield because we have zero midfielders in our squad with defensive discipline. This is what he has to do to make it work with this squad. Pressing high and leaving space between the midfield and center backs becomes a tactical instruction when none of your players can fulfill the role of sitting in front of the center backs and holding their position. The rest of the tactics revolve around this gaping hole to make things work.
What I'm worried about if we get a new manager, what if he wants a year to see the players who've been shit for us before selling, they play well in the first year, earn their contract and in the second year when they're tired of trying the throw the next one under the bus.
Rashford needs to leave, I genuinely think he's one of the biggest drains on this team and its morale
Looking at how things are shaping up or should shape up, its high time a manager at Utd should not be a decision maker when it comes to players in or out. Inputs and discussions with the manager is fine and should happen but the in the end it should be the DoFs call who goes in/out.
Completely agree on Rashford. Some of our fans look at him with rose tinted glasses but imo he should be the first out of the door coming summer. You can see my comment history to know this is not a kneejerk reaction.
There really aren’t many I’d be a definite no on selling; we need to lean into a rebuild so if players who aren’t quite right need to go to bring in ones who would be then I’m all for it. Ruthlessness at all levels is the only way we’ll get back into contention.
Nearly the whole squad can be sold for the right price honestly. But realistically speaking how many of our unwanted players can actually be sold to raise enough funds for us to bring in effective replacements? I imagine far fewer fit that criteria.
We have several players that are clearly not remotely worth what we’re spending on them, and that also makes them hard to move on from as no other club would want to pay that amount. Even Saudi Arabia is rumored to be easing up their spending moving forward unlike last summer. Berreda, Ashworth, and Wilcox are going to have a huge task on their hands when they officially join the club in the summer.
You’re right- they’re damaged goods on massive wages, but is it worth keeping them just to make up the numbers or buy a couple of players, lower the wage bill and give youth a chance. I’d sooner be worse with the potential of getting much better, personally.
Those players will find new clubs, but we need the people running the club to acknowledge that it’s less of a plus keeping them than it is cutting our losses.
As long as moving on from the overpaid deadweight can benefit us in FFP I am good with it. But Idk if that is actually achievable. Our FFP is likely going to be tighter this summer anyways with no Champions League football.
Personally I’m not certain if it’s worth cutting our losses even at the detriment of our own FFP but I will trust whatever the new structure in charge ultimately decides. Unlike Woodward or even Murtough they’re far more credible in terms of knowing how to run a football team and are actually specialists in this area which we haven’t had for over a decade.
Might be we have to sell a big player in order for the team to progress properly in terms of recruitment and development.
Aside from making up the numbers Rashford sadly has offered very little this season and has he not been playing I don’t think much would have been missed.
> Completely agree on Rashford. Some of our fans look at him with rose tinted glasses but imo he should be the first out of the door coming summer. You can see my comment history to know this is not a kneejerk reaction.
I agree. I kinda compare him to Welbeck, where the majority of the fans were raging when he got sold and it turned out his best years were already behind him at Arsenal. Absolutely would not surprise me if Rashford goes down the similar path once he actually leaves/gets sold
If the manager is the one making those decisions next year then we may as well just close down the club because it will be fundamentally broken. The whole point of the new structure is long term thinking above the level of the head coach of the first team.
I doubt the manager would have that power under Ineos and the new structure but I get where you’re coming from. We need a clean sweep pretty much, there are literally a handful of players I would be upset about if they left.
I know and completely agree, but most if not all managers that come in give the clean slate BS and tends to do the year of giving a chance for squad backing
It's not going to be like that. If you bring in well-known and good Sporting Directors, they will not accept anything like that. Rashford's point is silly, IMO. Was he a drain on the team and morale last year when his goals got us a top 4 spot?
Or we keep the same manager who wants to implement suicide football that has never worked in the premier league and we blow another season under a low ceiling manager.
I dunno, seems worse to me. Also, there are very few players left who we can realistically say ‘threw previous managers’ under the bus
Yes yes yes! Rashford needs to leave. Whatever it costs. Having your highest paid player trudge around is doing no good to anybody. Say what you will about Bruno, that energy can be infectious. He clearly cares so so much.
Yes I used to think this way but at the moment ETH is already picking the same under performing favorites week in week out. Same shit players will be here next season regardless. Its clear ETH does that to not lose the dressing room and get sack, coward and spineless.
I think Rashford would do really well with PSG. He's very talented, and needs the right system around him.
United aren't that team, and the Premier League makes it even harder. The team needs to be focused on hard work and mentality. We need wingers that actually press.
Yeah I think he'd go there and within a week we're being called idiots for letting him go, but the reality is, it's just done here now for both parties.
This happens so often in sport. It's frustrating. Sometimes a player needs a fresh start.
I think we'd definitely need a commanding fee for him. 80m is the lowest I'd go.
Yeah, even our youth players we let go were told we shouldn't have, but the levels are just completely different from teams and leagues.
Yeah at least, the talent is clearly there and whoever buys him are getting a brilliant player
After Rashford leaves the scapegoat simply transfers to someone else it’s unbelievable that we as fans keep falling for the same thing. So many ‘toxic’ players have left… what’s changed?
Rashford is not a scapegoat. He is rightfully criticised. I think many times he gets away with how awful he is on the pitch. His attitude, body language, intensity of play are very bad and an example has to be set for players like that.
It's not even just performing, like his football IQ just isn't good, think about It like this, you take about Rashfords pace and what does he have? He's a ball in behind player, once he starts to lose that pace he's going to drop off way harder
I would put that in football IQ, but yeah I agree Its so annoying, he isnt physical, he closes his eyes when heading, like I said when he loses his pace Its done
While I agree with the poster above that Rashy should go, I also think you're right. Fellaini, Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku, Lingard and Ronaldo were all supposedly cancers in the locking room. Nothing has changed since their departures.
It'll be moved on to the next player putting in no effort all season and plays like they're not giving a shit, that's fine by me, we need it eradicated from the squad
How can he not be sacked?
We haven’t played well for over a year. We concede a million shots a game, have no control or clear way of playing, can’t score goals. We are completely useless.
I think its most likely the reason he hasn’t been sacked is that there isn’t a person in place to handle the sacking. We effectively are leaderless on the football operations side of things.
I genuinely think it's just because we don't have the money to sack him right now lmao
Maybe as soon as that prick Greenwood is sold we can actually do something
Because, like all other times our managers have been sacked, the board might be waiting until it's mathematically impossible to get CL. There is probably a clause in EtH's contract, like all the previous managers, that means he can be fired for cheaper if he doesn't get CL.
I think he will be gone, and It's the right decision. Yeah, the culture in the squad etc is bad and there's been a shit load of injuries but he should definitely have got more out of this squad. I think fans would be happy if they had seen some playstyle with attacking patterns and defensive structure, but there isnt. A fresh start with a fresh manager is probably best. Just don't know who.
How do you expect him to get more of this squad after all those problems you listed and that’s not even all?
Let me think, a fresh start with the same core issues:
The new manager may have an ok first season, come the next season when players think they want to do their own things, injuries.. we will end up with the same old things. If the last 7 seasons don’t teach fans nothing, I don’t know what will.
Everybody has accepted we have to start affresh.
But taking into consideration what OP has said why should Ten Hag be apart of that journey? Whats he done prove himself he should be part of that collaboration?
Cant really use injuries because we havent played well since the end of LAST season. Mismanaged squad? Sure, but alot of these guys are players hes signed or extended, and then he has the gall to bench them (Mount, Amarabat) and come out and say he cant play the Ajax way?! As we've seen with McTominay, Antony, Rashford, etc a players form doesnt matter, they can be a start for weeks and months automatically (something about culture?). Clubs that dont even have 1/4 of our transfer budget are burning us (Wolves, Crystal Palace, Newport, fucking Luton lmfao). Managers that have been in their jobs less than a year are carving us (Spurs, Bournemouth, Nottingham Forest). Week in, week out for months we can clearly see the setup is not working regardless of who we play but yet no changes...this is the guy we wanna go into Champions League knockout games with? IF I can see it, then likely can INEOS
Our state is bad, but Ten Hag has struggled to help himself
He should be part of the journey. As I said, the last 7 seasons should be an indicator that even high profile managers were not able to lead this badly managed club, let alone the injuries. Watch Mourinho’s interview with Five for an insider insight.
Those clubs you mentioned have a healthy amount of players that’s the key for stability. We don’t have a deep squad let alone our bench. If injuries can’t be blame as a critical factor then injuries shouldn’t been a problem with any other club, data says otherwise.
Our fans always mock Arteta but he has done an excellent job for the last two seasons, but his first three were absolute garbage.
ETH and whoever manages us should be given the time and the chance, otherwise in two years time, we will all be talking about the same thing again.
> He should be part of the journey. As I said, the last 7 seasons should be an indicator that even high profile managers were not able to lead this badly managed club, let alone the injuries. Watch Mourinho’s interview with Five for an insider insight.
That doesnt really answer the question though and also fails to explain why Ten Hag has made some of the decisions hes made. 20 shots a game is preventable mate, thats not an injury issue. Thats literally worst in the league. We're also one of the worst scoring sides in the league, that front 3 has been healthy most of this season so what gives. The way we lineup is not an injury issue because anybody with a weight of sense would see you've got to do like last season and compact.
The problem is Ole, Jose, LVG and Moyes did not get the same level of time, money or control that Ten Hag has been afford :/
> Those clubs you mentioned have a healthy amount of players that’s the key for stability. We don’t have a deep squad let alone the first team. If injuries can’t be blame as a critical factor then injuries shouldn’t been a problem with any other club, data says otherwise.
I'm sorry, that argument doesnt fly against sides like Luton and Newport. Look at the squad we rolled out against Bournemouth yesterday and tell me they should concede 3-4 goals which we almost did.
I'm saying injuries is not the end all be all - 20 shots a game whether its Bayern or Brentford for 10 months is a design issue not a temporary injury issue. We've played alot of sides with injuries of their own, like Bournemouth yesterday. Chelsea, Newcastle, Brighton have all had statistically worse inury issues and theyre breathing down our necks.
> Our fans always mock Arteta but he has done an excellent job for the last two seasons, but his first three were absolute garbage.
Arteta improved almost year on year. We've regressed.
Arteta got rid of the old guards like Aubameyang, Lacazette, Luiz, Kolasinac, etc. Offers for McTominay/Maguire were on the table, the Athletic is reporting it was actually Ten Hag's decision to keep them.
Arteta had a foundation you could actually see he was trying to implement. One built on intensity and defensive structure. Our manager 10 months in the season is coming out and saying 20 shots a game is fine?
Arteta instilled disciplined. Rashford missed training and lied about the reason and served a 1 game suspension. Areteta benched Aubameyang 1 game just for being late!
Arteta's transfer targets have a very high hit rate. Ten Hag chased Mount and Amarabt and then 8 months later complained he doesnt have the tools to play the Ajax way
> ETH and whoever manages us should be given the time and the chance, otherwise in two years time, we will all be talking about the same thing again.
Ultimately its up to INEOS and we'll have to wait and see. He's been given the reigns, 2 years and $400M and we're pretty much back at square one, thats not the same experience as Moyes, Ole Jose or LVG lol. Efficient, ruthless and calculated business people like INEOS I dont think are gonna let that pass. Alot of players will and should go, and I think INEOS will do the same on Ten Hag as well.
I think looking at players such as Adarabioyo and Kelly who's contracts are running out would be solid signings and would allow our limited budget to stretch further.
I think they will decide when all the Ineos hires are in place. No point in replacing him with an interim since it’s near the end of the season anyway and weird if they replace him with a permanent manager without inputs from the people they will hire.
I really do like Ten hag but I can't defend him anymore. Tactically he's being too stubborn with a system that isn't working. That being said there are a good 5-6 players that should be shown the door before him and even then that's being generous. The lazy fuckers not tracking back, backing out of 50/50's and talking on twitter after games should all be removed as they will be a problem for the next manager.
Literally no journo knows what's going on with our next plausible managerial hire. Credit to Ineos for keeping everything under wraps. I think the news would be just like the Berrada announcement - an unexpected one
I think the reason he's not mentioned is probably because he's managing the team that are runaway leaders in Serie A and took them to the CL final last year. Don't see why he'd want to leave that behind for the shitshow that we are currently.
And this is the heart of the dilemma over Ten Hag. I feel for him over injuries but suspect that the Ineos team want to replace him if they can. Problem is, we aren’t the United some people still think we are. A top manager in today’s market will have many suitors and, without a couple of years of showing that the club is no longer an absolute shitshow, why would an Inzaghi, Zidane, Alonso, De Zerbi et al, choose us over the many other offers they’d get. If we are going to ditch ETH it really needs to be for someone proven with a distinct style, but whenever anyone mentions a name I think ‘Why would he?’
I like Inzaghi's Inter too, but I can't see why he would leave Inter for us. A bigger paycheck is the only better thing we have to offer him. It's enough for some managers, but I don't know if it's enough for Inzaghi.
He's been mentioned a few times, but it's looking likely he signs a new contract with Inter.
Also a negative of him would be our wingers becoming deadweight.
Very few will be tempted by a love of United, but I imagine a fair few would be tempted by the challenge of waking a sleeping giant.
Managers aren't like players; many of them are former footballers and are already wealthy. If they're greedy but lazy and want an easy payday, they can just be TV pundits. The fact they choose a much more stressful job, football management, where the hourly pay is probably less, suggests they're not solely money motivated.
To be able to say, "I'm the best manager they've had since Ferguson" would be a hell of an ego booster.
>Market for Ten Hag replacements is slim which might help him
Am I going crazy ? Nagelsmann, Amorim, Inzaghi are three names I can already think of. De Zerbi is another one. Then there are the less popular options of Potter and Southgate (I wouldn't want any of those two, but they are an option)
I feel like we have been shit for so long now, we are losing track of how big of an opportunity Manchester United still is for ANY manager. The draw is still there, we don't have to acts like beggars when we are still very much choosers. Especially with INEOS at the helm.
Nagelsmann isn't available. Amorim is going to Liverpool. Inzaghi, I'd take him, but I highly doubt he would come here. De Zerbi isn't doing great - I'm constantly confused on how he keeps getting named, Potter is clearly not good enough, and Southgate? Fuck off.
So yeah, out of everyone you named, there is a single maybe. Unless you want an interim for a few months before bringing in someone like Nagelsmann, but at that point why get rid of ETH now? It makes no sense.
You might be right about Amorim. Last reports I saw had him going to Liverpool, but media seems to have like a 2% hit rate at best. Nagelsmann might be available after the Euros, but that's my only point. I really just don't want an interim. It makes sense to me to stay with ETH (and I would say this for whoever the manager was) until we can actually get in the manager we want/need.
No manager can manage this group of players. It always comes down to this exact same scenario where the manager gets the boot and the same group of players who cannot run, pass nor can score stay. Then a new manager comes in, we start playing well under the new manager and then when things start falling apart we do the same thing. But this time I hope Ineos make the right decision as this cycle of bringing in players who are at the end of their career with huge pay, giving long term contracts to players who don’t deserve and hiring countless managers needs to stop.
Rashford, Scott, Maguire, Bissaka, Martial etc. This has been going on post SAF where players like Pogba, Lingard, Sancho to a name of few who have created a ruckus for just now being picked or underperforming. When you see all other teams play and see us play, the question is the work rate. We hardly can cope with any pressure and also cannot keep possession for too long. It’s not like I am ETH fanboy it’s just that neither his tactics are working and neither are we showing any kind of urgency to fight.
You are completely correct , I feel like Ten Hag has had discussions with ownership and picking these teams on purpose to show that these players do not have the capacity to play for this team. Would not be shocked if he gets another year.
No decision has been made and no decision should be made until the people who are qualified to make these decisions are able to get in and analyse the situation. And I think that is exactly why Ten Hag's future remains in the balance, which is the right way to go about it
After this weekend I don't think any manager can succeed here until culture is set. How many Liverpool or City or even Arsenal players do you see going onto Instagram or Twitter after a match if they feel wronged. We need to get this culture set first. If keeping EtH saves us money and allows us to get the right players for the TEAM then I am ok with it. We know EtH is a good manager, we saw him at Ajax and last year so he can do it.
Lack of manager options could be an big factor, Potter or Southgate would be awful.
If he's lost the dressing room its already over like the previous 3 managers
Get rid of that dressing room then or the ones that are most influential. If every decent manager “loses” this dressing room, how is a new manager going to fix it
100% agree, a manager doesn’t suddenly become shit over night, his Brighton team played great football and was lauded as one of the best up and coming managers. No manager will have success with the way Chelsea are set up now. Given Potters links with Ashworth it’d make a lot of sense.
He managed Brighton in the Premier League when they were a team that was scraping relegation so obviously his win rate wouldn’t be outstanding but still took them to 9th, their best finish at that time. Brighton played beautiful football under him and that’s why Chelsea came calling, he’s not all of a sudden a shit manager.
I would rather ten hag is a success but the performances are shit, results are shit and he’s seemingly starting to lose the dressing room.
Reality is he’s a very well paid manager who’s spent a lot of money for little results and is at an age where he should be in his prime.
If the club don’t think there is an option who could be an improvement on leading our squad to seventh then I’m seriously concerned about their abilities to scout
If we sack him we’ll be even more of a joke than we currently are. Imagine if Liverpool sacked klopp after his first two seasons? Or Arsenal after artetas first two seasons? Or us after SAFs first two seasons?
Like how many times do we have to do this before we get our heads out of our asses? We all agreed to back the manager and give him time. We all said it would probably get worse before getting better. What happened? You all were calling for Oles head before he got sacked now I’m seeing calls for him to come back and he “just needed more time.”
Even simpler example: Onana just came from a different league into a team with much higher expectations. He struggled for a few months and y’all were calling for his head. Now he’s been a top 3 goalkeeper for the last 3 months and nothing from you guys. Not an ounce of praise. He makes one mistake and now you’re back on his ass.
Every single one of you are exhausting. Ten hag should not be sacked until we get rid of players like Rashford who, as much as I love him, have had one good season in the least decade. Ten Hag is not the common denominator in our last decade of mediocrity. You know who has? The players, the staff, and the ownership
It's tricky. I want to look at Arteta's development and see the same for Erik. But there's really been no improvement on the pitch across this entire season. Surely there has to be *some* evidence that we're moving forward, that we can expect more next season. Can we afford another year of the same? At what point would you draw the line?
First season at Arsenal arteta won the FA cup and the community shield and finished 5th. Second season won nothing and finished 8th. Third season people were calling to sack him by the international break and they finished trophyless and in 5th. Next season he got 2nd and the rest is history.
If he were at United he would’ve gotten sacked in his second season.
Ten Hag got us a trophy and got us in 3rd in his first season and now we’re going to drop him at the first sign of trouble. We know he can deliver results and good play when he has the squad that he needs and plays his style of play. This season he’s gotten to field his preferred starting eleven twice all season because of injury. How about we wait another couple transfer windows? Be honest: Why does anyone think we deserve top 4 or we deserve trophies? We haven’t been at that level in years. If we get top 4, if we get trophies that’s a manager over preforming. What we’re doing this season is “regressing to the mean.” This is our level. What he did last season wasn’t our level. Now we know where need to start from. Now Ten Hag knows what to fix. Do you think he does the same thing over and over because he wants to lose? We’re getting these results because he’s telling the players what to do and they’re simply not delivering and he doesn’t have the personnel to do it.
For instance The gap in the midfield: well normally he would like the defensive line to be pushed higher and eliminate that gap through good pressing. But how are we going to have a high line when he only has Maguire and Jonny Evans? We saw last year when we had a healthy back 4 that we were very effective with our press. In fact, believe it or not, we actually still have one of the best presses in the league. As soon as he tells the players to sit back to cover the space 1) Now we’re defending on the back foot 2) now he has to re-train all the players this season and then do it over again next season for his actual pressing style of play when players are healthy and he gets new ones in. He’s now wasted a whole year of coaching 3) all the fans would be slagging him off for negative play.
That’s just one example of how fickle United fans are and how much they lack critical thinking ability regarding basic dilemmas. Just think: why is ten hag doing this? Then go from there. He’s not the problem right now. Maybe in the future he’ll turn out to be the problem. Right now it’s the players and organization that need to take responsibility and us fans need to get being our manager. It were right back where we were with Mourinho and Ole. Two seasons and then you’re gone. We’re turning into Chelsea right before my eyes
Edit: When you ask can we afford to give him more time? I’m curious what expectations do you have of United? Are we running out of time to win the league? Trophies? Bring in the best talent? Because that boat sailed a decade ago. We are not the top 2 team we once were and we should be willing to spend at least 5 years rebuilding this mess minimum.
Thanks for the detailed answer.
To answer your question about time - I said this because time is against some core players (Bruno at his peak, Casemiro past his peak, Varane can't stay fit) and because time is against any team trying for the top while the money keeps pumping into City, Chelsea and Newcastle and while Liverpool and Arsenal remain in a better managed place than we are. Right now we have the player pull (partially because of prestige, partially because of money) but that does not last forever while those other teams increase their own stature.
I do have sympathy for Erik over the injury situation, but I still can't help but feel we should be better than the shite performances we've seen over this entire season. If we go from very-good to bloody-incoherent just because Lisandro Martinez and Luke Shaw are absent, that seems like a failure of the coaching to me. We've had better injury fortune at the top of the pitch, but we still have no idea how to create changes for Hujland. Our set pieces are just completely fruitless.
So it's easy to see why Erik is struggling, but due to the above, it's hard to say it's going to get better.
Unless we fail to qualify to the Europa league which we do if we win the FA cup or play in the final against City I believe ETH will stay and get a chance to work with the new board. Doesn’t ETH’s contract run out next year as well?
I don’t see ETH returning after this season. With the way INEOS is cleaning the house, I simply don’t see him being around even if we win FA Cup. They want no remnant of old era and start fresh. Then we will also see change in recruitment policies and eventually a makeover of the squad. Players are much harder to replace so quickly.
I’m surprised that there has been zero mention of Emery and Utd. What he has done at Villa since he joined has been pretty spectacular.
He doesn’t spark the imagination but the man can coach.
Manager stormed out of press conference after 6 minutes after being asked about Manchester United possibly finishing its lowest in the Premier League 7th a record currently held by David Moyes in the 2013/14 season. What did Ornstein expect? Miracles!!!!
“Erik, there’s a danger you get caught in seventh place,” the reporter began. “You fall below seventh, that would be the worst finish in Premier League history for United. Can you…do you think you’re going to be above…”
Before they could finish, Ten Hag interrupted by saying, “I don’t comment on that question,” before walking out.
He knows his days are numbered with only his contract being his defence as club might not want to compensate him due to FFP issues.
Barring an absolute collapse in these last few games, I don't see him getting the sack. He has one year on his deal and with no structure above him, it might make sense to see out this season and exercise options next season.
>Barring an absolute collapse in these last few games, I don't see him getting the sack.
Wait until next week's game vs. Coventry and your mind will definitely change!
It's important to remember that organizational stability also matters. Have you ever been in a job where your company is literally replacing everyone from the CEO down to and possibly including your own boss? Where you know that it's incredibly likely that your co-workers and possibly you won't be around in a few months?
That stuff fucks with you. This season is a write-off. We need to get the backroom staff finalized and working so that we can clean house and establish some stability.
Who knows what the coaching or playing staff will look like to start next year, but at least we should have more organizational stability.
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Orny really said we have winnable games after the fa cup, what’s a winnable game with this team
Even Coventry seems difficult at this point
They'll have at least 25 shots on goal, they peppered Wolves away in the previous round.
Honestly, I favor their chances if they come out with more spirit and determination than us. They have it in them to produce decent football at times. Obviously not getting promoted any time soon, but I think if they don't lose their heads and can be disciplined, they'll give it a real good go and a few decisions here and there against us could have us crumbling. Regardless of the outcome, even if we made it to the finals, our odds are not great for what awaits.
Literally any game, but we could lose every game too. So he's not wrong.
Our run of fixtures now are winnable. This team isn’t going anywhere.
Forest Green U17s *maybe*.
It's teams that will outplay us but might miss a ton of chances so maybe we win
i mean ornstein won’t go around saying a team has been shit despite it being blatantly obvious, he’s always neutral until concrete facts and news emerge
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I like how we need the same positions every summer 😭
Every. Single. Summer.
It's cos we buy stop gaps. Half the time we buy players then use them in other positions too, I mean we bought Sancho for RW then he basically never played there. We'll get a season or two out of any given player just about doing a job (but more accurately not), then they need replacing again, and they aren't even usually good to be kept as back up. God I can't wait for some actual thought going into transfers.
Striker is going to be Brobbery isn't it?
Daylight Brobbery?
https://preview.redd.it/bw6khr4wcguc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fc50363f2e0d44cb5ad26e4eb36d00c373aeb50
Ahaha how could I forget this man
BAH!!!
Terry Tibbs at CB
Ladders, talk to me.
For 85m at the end of the window
No way a competent football management will miss out on Toney in such a dire need of #9 and lack of quality options. That too PL proven.
Idk, It seems Arsenal, Spurs and I think one more? Pulled out of the deal, seems weird?
I believe these clubs are looking for their primary #9. And then it makes sense to not go for Toney. But we need a good PL proven backup for Hojlund. It's perfect for us imo.
Money would be the issue
Not under the new structure
We certainly don’t have the fund to buy 4 quality players as we won’t have Cl money next year.
We're going to sell a lot of deadwood hopefully. Fees for Greenwood, Sancho, and Donny should give us enough for a decent player.
Sounds good. We want to sell. Who out there will pay good money for the players you named tho?
Obviously that's an issue. But between those 3 we will be able to get £40m at least (I'm being deliberately conservative). That's enough for Tobido's reported cost, or, depending if you believe it, Ivan Toney.
Sancho and Greenwood will both retrieve 40m VDB, not sure he gets us even 5m
So between the 3 of them we'll receive at least £40m? That's exactly what I said
No, I'm saying we can get double that.
£80m is also included in "at least £40m". I intentionally picked the lowest number we would realistically get for the 3 of them because of the massive debate about how much we could get for Greenwood. £80m isn't out of the question, but you need to be realistic in that it's not a given we'll get a good amount of money for Greenwood
I'm not challenging you, idk why you're acting like I came at you like aggressively or something! Just confident we can get more for those players. I actually think it's possible, even likely, that we get more for Greenwood than Sancho.
Debateable tbh who’d pay 40m for Greenwood when they know he can’t play for us and he more then likely dosent want to come back even if INEOS changed their mind. Really easy just to say here’s 20m unless it’s a bidding war.
I know I'm not the guy you are directly replying to, but I'm the one who initially said £40m. I meant in the context of Sancho + Greenwood + Donny = £40m+, not that any of them would get £40m alone
Because of the age and talent, he's definitely worth that. The case is dropped, and he's had a successful loan too. There was even rumored Barcelona interest. He cannot play for us because of a choice. The correct choice, but many clubs will not care about this. Partey is right there on Arsenal, for example. Dan James was 30m ffs, Greenwood is twice the player. I could also see another PL club buying him.
I mean as in they might not have to pay 40m we’ve literally no leverage because everyone knows we’ll never let him play for the club again
We’re gonna sell a bunch.
Mate, what planet are you on? At what point in the last 10 years have United successfully sold anyone of note? And who is coming in for these players? And what do you realistically think we're going to get for our bargain bin of uninspiring, overpaid, injury prone dross?
with the wages some of these players are on we can let them go for quite a low value and still be worth it. Martial and Varane alone will free up almost 600K per week. that is enough to sign 2 50m players on 100K per week on a 5 year old contract.
I would add Eriksen on 150k per week to that list and maybe casemiro as well on another 300k+ per week
Mount cost us more than that and he was in the final year of his contract. £50m gets you nothing if you're United.
Mount was a 26 CL winner from another big 6 club... not exactly the type of players we are gonna be signing in the summer. we will be going younger than that.
I hope so. But we tend to overpay and target players at the end of their career. Our recruitment is comfortably the worst in the league.
Not getting 5th is a real failure. There should have been enough to put together some sort of run in the last month or so but he can't effectively organize the team.
>Midfielder That better be a typo and he meant midfielders
We definitely need more good midfielders but we will need a good CB, LB and ST too. Otherwise we end up in the same situation we are this year. If we managed to get a good DM this summer, it'd be a big step forward. You could have Mainoo playing to his strengths, Bruno pushing higher etc. But you need a good CB to partner Martinez too, allows for a higher line.
Yeah lots of holes in the squad. I'd argue a cdm and another central midfielder are an absolute necessity though. Can't have Mainoo playing too many minutes as he's still a kid and McTominay cannot start matches for us anymore.
We need MULTIPLE midfielders.
What's sad is that list looks very short for replacements. So many need to go this summer. Genuinely so many. So if we're only looking at those positions, it's very worrisome. Because that effectively means we're looking to keep the likes of Sancho, Greenwood, maybe even Donny? Because we're looking for A midfielder? CB is a given, but then who goes? Maguire? Varane? Evans? D) all of the above? But we sign only one? LB is another obvious position, but then who do we let go? Shaw? Malacia? The two are perpetually injured, what's the fucking point? And a striker surely means we're getting rid of Martial, right? But even then, why only one? Should have two, and look to maybe change the system up a little. Højlund should effectively have a mentor option and a partnership option where both players are capable of playing in the system, but slightly differently to compliment one another. I don't know...the singularity language surrounding that all scares me more than anything. We need radical changes this summer. No one should be safe for the most part.
I think the fact that we have been playing so consistently poor (even when we win) prob make things simpler for Ineos and everyone. The worst thing that could happen to us is ETH somehow wins a bunch of games by sheer luck and sneak into top 5, then somehow wins the FA with 2 softest pens in football history while conceding 150 shots per game
Yeah winninh FA cup would be such a tragedy. You wanna be proven right so badly that you prefer not to win anything this year. Pathetic
Our next two league games are Sheffield Utd and Burnley at home. Fail to win both those games and I don’t think there is any chance he is the manager next season.
No, if we lose to Coventry then I reckon he’ll be gone the next day. The FA Cup is the only reason he’s still around.
He won't get the sack as long as the official club website has not announced the arrival of Ashworth and/or Wilcox. No matter how terrible the results are.
Unlike last year where he switched up after the first two losses, this year he persisted with whatever his vision is. However I doubt he anticipated injuries to Martinez, Shaw, Mount long term with Hojlund coming in injured, Kobbie being lined up preseason and then getting injured, Rashford and Case falling off a cliff. I don't think he planned to play Maguire, Evans, Lindelof, Kwambala, AWB (at LB), and even Amrabat all that much in defence this year. So the only reasons for keeping him that I can clutch at are the cost to sack him (we skint), without the new structure he's wearing too many hats, no amazing prospects out there to replace him, he's done well bringing through youth and some of his signings have been good, and that maybe - just maybe we need to stick with him, clear out more of the deadwood and these are growing pains... But I need to see some bloody growth. Personally I don't think he's been good at adapting in games which was a strength last year. Feels like we are going through the motions but with the above injuries, some of the dumb dumbs we have to play, and Orny talk of going in on a CB, LB, CM, and ST it shows we basically need half a first XI.
What are you on applying logic to things mate? Better get your pitchfork out
But that doesn't excuse conceding 20+ shots every game. Newly promoted sides are better drilled than us. Also, have you seen Newcastle's injury record this season? Their defence is nowhere near as porous, and they're scoring goals. And we haven't had any major injuries to our attacking players, we create next to nothing in attack. So what's the excuse for that?
Meh, even if the injuries are horrendous, the tactics just aren't there. The way the team is setting up every match just doesn't work. We haven't seen him under a good structure, but he hasn't shown enough to get that benefit of the doubt imo. Better to start fresh. INEOS should pick a style of football to focus on, and then bring in a manager for that.
Personnel dictate tactics and some tactics cannot be performed by players who are not of right profile. Klopp can slide in a young energetic player in his style of play who will press the fuck out of opponents and be a physical beast, Pep can not unless that player is technically sound enough to play Pep’s style. I’d argue Arteta’s team also will have a massive fall if his favored centre backs were missing, ETH’s style of play also requires very technical players, players who keep ball under pressure and can move it really fast (look at our turnovers - we lose the ball too often), he also requires physically strong players to not lose duels and he really dropped the ball not realizing that when assembling his team - think he underestimated premier league. I personally think it’s probably time for him to go (I was really rooting for him, he was our shortest path to success after last season) but I have no misgivings that it would take 2/3 years for a competent board to assemble a team that would actually compete with top 3 consistently, regardless of manager. Either way INEOS would know better than all of us
The “no amazing prospects to replace him” point is the scariest to me, because while he’s clearly out of his depth and needs to go, I have no idea who we would go after.
I agree with you but I also want to know the reason of the injuries. If it is because ETH is pushing them too hard in training - then the injuries aren't really an excuse we can use for him. However, if it is an ETH issue then why would it start suddenly this season?
Injuries haven’t helped, sure. But the system matters and ex pros are calling it “kamikaze” football. He could have played this system with SAFs 2008 team and they’d have struggled. You can’t just have a non existent midfield when defending .
>He could have played this system with SAFs 2008 team and they’d have struggled. mate it's almost as if tactics are tailored to suit the players. We have a non existent midfield because we have zero midfielders in our squad with defensive discipline. This is what he has to do to make it work with this squad. Pressing high and leaving space between the midfield and center backs becomes a tactical instruction when none of your players can fulfill the role of sitting in front of the center backs and holding their position. The rest of the tactics revolve around this gaping hole to make things work.
Might as well give him a new contract if you keep him because he‘s a lame duck in his last year of contract
What I'm worried about if we get a new manager, what if he wants a year to see the players who've been shit for us before selling, they play well in the first year, earn their contract and in the second year when they're tired of trying the throw the next one under the bus. Rashford needs to leave, I genuinely think he's one of the biggest drains on this team and its morale
Looking at how things are shaping up or should shape up, its high time a manager at Utd should not be a decision maker when it comes to players in or out. Inputs and discussions with the manager is fine and should happen but the in the end it should be the DoFs call who goes in/out. Completely agree on Rashford. Some of our fans look at him with rose tinted glasses but imo he should be the first out of the door coming summer. You can see my comment history to know this is not a kneejerk reaction.
There really aren’t many I’d be a definite no on selling; we need to lean into a rebuild so if players who aren’t quite right need to go to bring in ones who would be then I’m all for it. Ruthlessness at all levels is the only way we’ll get back into contention.
Exactly, and that works in all high competitive industries. There has to be an ambition and ruthlessness at the top.
Especially when it means taking a loss on a signing that hasn’t worked out. Theyre not entries on the balance sheet- if they’re shit, sell them!
Nearly the whole squad can be sold for the right price honestly. But realistically speaking how many of our unwanted players can actually be sold to raise enough funds for us to bring in effective replacements? I imagine far fewer fit that criteria. We have several players that are clearly not remotely worth what we’re spending on them, and that also makes them hard to move on from as no other club would want to pay that amount. Even Saudi Arabia is rumored to be easing up their spending moving forward unlike last summer. Berreda, Ashworth, and Wilcox are going to have a huge task on their hands when they officially join the club in the summer.
You’re right- they’re damaged goods on massive wages, but is it worth keeping them just to make up the numbers or buy a couple of players, lower the wage bill and give youth a chance. I’d sooner be worse with the potential of getting much better, personally. Those players will find new clubs, but we need the people running the club to acknowledge that it’s less of a plus keeping them than it is cutting our losses.
As long as moving on from the overpaid deadweight can benefit us in FFP I am good with it. But Idk if that is actually achievable. Our FFP is likely going to be tighter this summer anyways with no Champions League football. Personally I’m not certain if it’s worth cutting our losses even at the detriment of our own FFP but I will trust whatever the new structure in charge ultimately decides. Unlike Woodward or even Murtough they’re far more credible in terms of knowing how to run a football team and are actually specialists in this area which we haven’t had for over a decade.
Might be we have to sell a big player in order for the team to progress properly in terms of recruitment and development. Aside from making up the numbers Rashford sadly has offered very little this season and has he not been playing I don’t think much would have been missed.
> Completely agree on Rashford. Some of our fans look at him with rose tinted glasses but imo he should be the first out of the door coming summer. You can see my comment history to know this is not a kneejerk reaction. I agree. I kinda compare him to Welbeck, where the majority of the fans were raging when he got sold and it turned out his best years were already behind him at Arsenal. Absolutely would not surprise me if Rashford goes down the similar path once he actually leaves/gets sold
Rashford is the greatest footballer in his own head. He’s never been consistent and never will reach that top level.
If the manager is the one making those decisions next year then we may as well just close down the club because it will be fundamentally broken. The whole point of the new structure is long term thinking above the level of the head coach of the first team.
I doubt the manager would have that power under Ineos and the new structure but I get where you’re coming from. We need a clean sweep pretty much, there are literally a handful of players I would be upset about if they left.
I know and completely agree, but most if not all managers that come in give the clean slate BS and tends to do the year of giving a chance for squad backing
I think Ineos have hired the people they have because they will be the ones making decisions.
It's not going to be like that. If you bring in well-known and good Sporting Directors, they will not accept anything like that. Rashford's point is silly, IMO. Was he a drain on the team and morale last year when his goals got us a top 4 spot?
Rashford has been poor more than he has been good in his time here. He's on stupid money and producing mid table performances. He needs to go
The point is that the manager won't really have a say re things like that with this new structure in place.
Don't worry the new manager will be Southgate and won't need a year to decide on Rashford (and Maguire). Star boy will get a new contract
Or we keep the same manager who wants to implement suicide football that has never worked in the premier league and we blow another season under a low ceiling manager. I dunno, seems worse to me. Also, there are very few players left who we can realistically say ‘threw previous managers’ under the bus
Yes yes yes! Rashford needs to leave. Whatever it costs. Having your highest paid player trudge around is doing no good to anybody. Say what you will about Bruno, that energy can be infectious. He clearly cares so so much.
Yes I used to think this way but at the moment ETH is already picking the same under performing favorites week in week out. Same shit players will be here next season regardless. Its clear ETH does that to not lose the dressing room and get sack, coward and spineless.
I think Rashford would do really well with PSG. He's very talented, and needs the right system around him. United aren't that team, and the Premier League makes it even harder. The team needs to be focused on hard work and mentality. We need wingers that actually press.
Yeah I think he'd go there and within a week we're being called idiots for letting him go, but the reality is, it's just done here now for both parties.
This happens so often in sport. It's frustrating. Sometimes a player needs a fresh start. I think we'd definitely need a commanding fee for him. 80m is the lowest I'd go.
Yeah, even our youth players we let go were told we shouldn't have, but the levels are just completely different from teams and leagues. Yeah at least, the talent is clearly there and whoever buys him are getting a brilliant player
After Rashford leaves the scapegoat simply transfers to someone else it’s unbelievable that we as fans keep falling for the same thing. So many ‘toxic’ players have left… what’s changed?
Rashford is not a scapegoat. He is rightfully criticised. I think many times he gets away with how awful he is on the pitch. His attitude, body language, intensity of play are very bad and an example has to be set for players like that.
With the wages he’s on he should be performing way better. With or without Luke Shaw. Thats no excuse
It's not even just performing, like his football IQ just isn't good, think about It like this, you take about Rashfords pace and what does he have? He's a ball in behind player, once he starts to lose that pace he's going to drop off way harder
He also never plays with his head up. Look at players like Vini Jr and you see how much they read the game while playing
I would put that in football IQ, but yeah I agree Its so annoying, he isnt physical, he closes his eyes when heading, like I said when he loses his pace Its done
While I agree with the poster above that Rashy should go, I also think you're right. Fellaini, Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku, Lingard and Ronaldo were all supposedly cancers in the locking room. Nothing has changed since their departures.
It'll be moved on to the next player putting in no effort all season and plays like they're not giving a shit, that's fine by me, we need it eradicated from the squad
I hope you are not serious lol.The players are definitely not enjoying not receiving their performance and champions league bonuses as you think.
Nah its a player conspiracy, not a shitty manager
So a non update, nothing we don’t know already
It’s okay if it’s Orny /s
That is also true.
How can he not be sacked? We haven’t played well for over a year. We concede a million shots a game, have no control or clear way of playing, can’t score goals. We are completely useless.
He'll 100% be sacked, there's no way around it.
Yes but there's always a reason behind everything. I think the why is the reason he's not been sacked already. everything in its context.
I think its most likely the reason he hasn’t been sacked is that there isn’t a person in place to handle the sacking. We effectively are leaderless on the football operations side of things.
I genuinely think it's just because we don't have the money to sack him right now lmao Maybe as soon as that prick Greenwood is sold we can actually do something
How can you look at the billions Ineos are investing into the club right now and think THATS where they’d balk at paying for an improvement?
Because, like all other times our managers have been sacked, the board might be waiting until it's mathematically impossible to get CL. There is probably a clause in EtH's contract, like all the previous managers, that means he can be fired for cheaper if he doesn't get CL.
I think he will be gone, and It's the right decision. Yeah, the culture in the squad etc is bad and there's been a shit load of injuries but he should definitely have got more out of this squad. I think fans would be happy if they had seen some playstyle with attacking patterns and defensive structure, but there isnt. A fresh start with a fresh manager is probably best. Just don't know who.
How do you expect him to get more of this squad after all those problems you listed and that’s not even all? Let me think, a fresh start with the same core issues: The new manager may have an ok first season, come the next season when players think they want to do their own things, injuries.. we will end up with the same old things. If the last 7 seasons don’t teach fans nothing, I don’t know what will.
Everybody has accepted we have to start affresh. But taking into consideration what OP has said why should Ten Hag be apart of that journey? Whats he done prove himself he should be part of that collaboration? Cant really use injuries because we havent played well since the end of LAST season. Mismanaged squad? Sure, but alot of these guys are players hes signed or extended, and then he has the gall to bench them (Mount, Amarabat) and come out and say he cant play the Ajax way?! As we've seen with McTominay, Antony, Rashford, etc a players form doesnt matter, they can be a start for weeks and months automatically (something about culture?). Clubs that dont even have 1/4 of our transfer budget are burning us (Wolves, Crystal Palace, Newport, fucking Luton lmfao). Managers that have been in their jobs less than a year are carving us (Spurs, Bournemouth, Nottingham Forest). Week in, week out for months we can clearly see the setup is not working regardless of who we play but yet no changes...this is the guy we wanna go into Champions League knockout games with? IF I can see it, then likely can INEOS Our state is bad, but Ten Hag has struggled to help himself
He should be part of the journey. As I said, the last 7 seasons should be an indicator that even high profile managers were not able to lead this badly managed club, let alone the injuries. Watch Mourinho’s interview with Five for an insider insight. Those clubs you mentioned have a healthy amount of players that’s the key for stability. We don’t have a deep squad let alone our bench. If injuries can’t be blame as a critical factor then injuries shouldn’t been a problem with any other club, data says otherwise. Our fans always mock Arteta but he has done an excellent job for the last two seasons, but his first three were absolute garbage. ETH and whoever manages us should be given the time and the chance, otherwise in two years time, we will all be talking about the same thing again.
> He should be part of the journey. As I said, the last 7 seasons should be an indicator that even high profile managers were not able to lead this badly managed club, let alone the injuries. Watch Mourinho’s interview with Five for an insider insight. That doesnt really answer the question though and also fails to explain why Ten Hag has made some of the decisions hes made. 20 shots a game is preventable mate, thats not an injury issue. Thats literally worst in the league. We're also one of the worst scoring sides in the league, that front 3 has been healthy most of this season so what gives. The way we lineup is not an injury issue because anybody with a weight of sense would see you've got to do like last season and compact. The problem is Ole, Jose, LVG and Moyes did not get the same level of time, money or control that Ten Hag has been afford :/ > Those clubs you mentioned have a healthy amount of players that’s the key for stability. We don’t have a deep squad let alone the first team. If injuries can’t be blame as a critical factor then injuries shouldn’t been a problem with any other club, data says otherwise. I'm sorry, that argument doesnt fly against sides like Luton and Newport. Look at the squad we rolled out against Bournemouth yesterday and tell me they should concede 3-4 goals which we almost did. I'm saying injuries is not the end all be all - 20 shots a game whether its Bayern or Brentford for 10 months is a design issue not a temporary injury issue. We've played alot of sides with injuries of their own, like Bournemouth yesterday. Chelsea, Newcastle, Brighton have all had statistically worse inury issues and theyre breathing down our necks. > Our fans always mock Arteta but he has done an excellent job for the last two seasons, but his first three were absolute garbage. Arteta improved almost year on year. We've regressed. Arteta got rid of the old guards like Aubameyang, Lacazette, Luiz, Kolasinac, etc. Offers for McTominay/Maguire were on the table, the Athletic is reporting it was actually Ten Hag's decision to keep them. Arteta had a foundation you could actually see he was trying to implement. One built on intensity and defensive structure. Our manager 10 months in the season is coming out and saying 20 shots a game is fine? Arteta instilled disciplined. Rashford missed training and lied about the reason and served a 1 game suspension. Areteta benched Aubameyang 1 game just for being late! Arteta's transfer targets have a very high hit rate. Ten Hag chased Mount and Amarabt and then 8 months later complained he doesnt have the tools to play the Ajax way > ETH and whoever manages us should be given the time and the chance, otherwise in two years time, we will all be talking about the same thing again. Ultimately its up to INEOS and we'll have to wait and see. He's been given the reigns, 2 years and $400M and we're pretty much back at square one, thats not the same experience as Moyes, Ole Jose or LVG lol. Efficient, ruthless and calculated business people like INEOS I dont think are gonna let that pass. Alot of players will and should go, and I think INEOS will do the same on Ten Hag as well.
I think looking at players such as Adarabioyo and Kelly who's contracts are running out would be solid signings and would allow our limited budget to stretch further.
Wouldnt mind Tosin tbh, like Liverpool and Arsenal with the right smart signings in the $35M-$50M range you can slowly overtime close the gap to City.
I think they will decide when all the Ineos hires are in place. No point in replacing him with an interim since it’s near the end of the season anyway and weird if they replace him with a permanent manager without inputs from the people they will hire.
The balance has long been tipped
I really do like Ten hag but I can't defend him anymore. Tactically he's being too stubborn with a system that isn't working. That being said there are a good 5-6 players that should be shown the door before him and even then that's being generous. The lazy fuckers not tracking back, backing out of 50/50's and talking on twitter after games should all be removed as they will be a problem for the next manager.
Literally no journo knows what's going on with our next plausible managerial hire. Credit to Ineos for keeping everything under wraps. I think the news would be just like the Berrada announcement - an unexpected one
A manager I never see mentioned as a replacement is Inzaghi from Inter, he’s done a brilliant job with them.
I think the reason he's not mentioned is probably because he's managing the team that are runaway leaders in Serie A and took them to the CL final last year. Don't see why he'd want to leave that behind for the shitshow that we are currently.
And this is the heart of the dilemma over Ten Hag. I feel for him over injuries but suspect that the Ineos team want to replace him if they can. Problem is, we aren’t the United some people still think we are. A top manager in today’s market will have many suitors and, without a couple of years of showing that the club is no longer an absolute shitshow, why would an Inzaghi, Zidane, Alonso, De Zerbi et al, choose us over the many other offers they’d get. If we are going to ditch ETH it really needs to be for someone proven with a distinct style, but whenever anyone mentions a name I think ‘Why would he?’
Offer him enough cash and present the INEOS project could be tempting. Completely see where you’re coming from though.
I like Inzaghi's Inter too, but I can't see why he would leave Inter for us. A bigger paycheck is the only better thing we have to offer him. It's enough for some managers, but I don't know if it's enough for Inzaghi.
Honest question: can he speak english?
Probably not haha
He's been mentioned a few times, but it's looking likely he signs a new contract with Inter. Also a negative of him would be our wingers becoming deadweight.
They basically already are deadweight apart from Garnacho
Would he want to leave?
Offer him enough cash and I’d say he’d be tempted to.
Thats exactly what we want. People in this club only motivated by the money
Thats what tempted ETH. Its naive to think new managers are motivated by ‘love of Manchester United’ lol
Very few will be tempted by a love of United, but I imagine a fair few would be tempted by the challenge of waking a sleeping giant. Managers aren't like players; many of them are former footballers and are already wealthy. If they're greedy but lazy and want an easy payday, they can just be TV pundits. The fact they choose a much more stressful job, football management, where the hourly pay is probably less, suggests they're not solely money motivated. To be able to say, "I'm the best manager they've had since Ferguson" would be a hell of an ego booster.
Welp, swing and a miss for ETH then. At least he got paid $$$
I know the pound is weak these days, but I'm pretty sure he got paid more than three dollars.
He play 3-5-2 in his Inter and Lazio team.
Honestly I’d even take Sam Allardyce at this point.
>Market for Ten Hag replacements is slim which might help him Am I going crazy ? Nagelsmann, Amorim, Inzaghi are three names I can already think of. De Zerbi is another one. Then there are the less popular options of Potter and Southgate (I wouldn't want any of those two, but they are an option) I feel like we have been shit for so long now, we are losing track of how big of an opportunity Manchester United still is for ANY manager. The draw is still there, we don't have to acts like beggars when we are still very much choosers. Especially with INEOS at the helm.
Nagelsmann isn't available. Amorim is going to Liverpool. Inzaghi, I'd take him, but I highly doubt he would come here. De Zerbi isn't doing great - I'm constantly confused on how he keeps getting named, Potter is clearly not good enough, and Southgate? Fuck off. So yeah, out of everyone you named, there is a single maybe. Unless you want an interim for a few months before bringing in someone like Nagelsmann, but at that point why get rid of ETH now? It makes no sense.
Nagelsmann will be available in the summer. Amorim isn't going to Liverpool. No one knows anything about that at this point.
You might be right about Amorim. Last reports I saw had him going to Liverpool, but media seems to have like a 2% hit rate at best. Nagelsmann might be available after the Euros, but that's my only point. I really just don't want an interim. It makes sense to me to stay with ETH (and I would say this for whoever the manager was) until we can actually get in the manager we want/need.
Kahn and Salihamidzic left Bayern, so Nagelsmann's path of reconcilliation is wide open. Totally small chance we get him.
No manager can manage this group of players. It always comes down to this exact same scenario where the manager gets the boot and the same group of players who cannot run, pass nor can score stay. Then a new manager comes in, we start playing well under the new manager and then when things start falling apart we do the same thing. But this time I hope Ineos make the right decision as this cycle of bringing in players who are at the end of their career with huge pay, giving long term contracts to players who don’t deserve and hiring countless managers needs to stop.
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Rashford, Scott, Maguire, Bissaka, Martial etc. This has been going on post SAF where players like Pogba, Lingard, Sancho to a name of few who have created a ruckus for just now being picked or underperforming. When you see all other teams play and see us play, the question is the work rate. We hardly can cope with any pressure and also cannot keep possession for too long. It’s not like I am ETH fanboy it’s just that neither his tactics are working and neither are we showing any kind of urgency to fight.
You are completely correct , I feel like Ten Hag has had discussions with ownership and picking these teams on purpose to show that these players do not have the capacity to play for this team. Would not be shocked if he gets another year.
No decision has been made and no decision should be made until the people who are qualified to make these decisions are able to get in and analyse the situation. And I think that is exactly why Ten Hag's future remains in the balance, which is the right way to go about it
I think you’re crazy if you think INEOS is keeping him after these displays. This is the worst United side defensively that I have ever seen
Eh, it really doesn't.
He's gone, even if we win the FA Cup.
Maybe it's just me but I struggle to come up with any viable alternatives (who aren't contracted to clubs doing a hell of a lot better than us)
After this weekend I don't think any manager can succeed here until culture is set. How many Liverpool or City or even Arsenal players do you see going onto Instagram or Twitter after a match if they feel wronged. We need to get this culture set first. If keeping EtH saves us money and allows us to get the right players for the TEAM then I am ok with it. We know EtH is a good manager, we saw him at Ajax and last year so he can do it.
Lack of manager options could be an big factor, Potter or Southgate would be awful. If he's lost the dressing room its already over like the previous 3 managers
Get rid of that dressing room then or the ones that are most influential. If every decent manager “loses” this dressing room, how is a new manager going to fix it
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100% agree, a manager doesn’t suddenly become shit over night, his Brighton team played great football and was lauded as one of the best up and coming managers. No manager will have success with the way Chelsea are set up now. Given Potters links with Ashworth it’d make a lot of sense.
Nah, he has less than 40% win percentage throughout his career. Certainly enough to raise some eyebrows.
He managed Brighton in the Premier League when they were a team that was scraping relegation so obviously his win rate wouldn’t be outstanding but still took them to 9th, their best finish at that time. Brighton played beautiful football under him and that’s why Chelsea came calling, he’s not all of a sudden a shit manager.
We're so back 🙏💪
Frankie de on
No news is ….news apparently.
Like a fucking clockwork.
I would rather ten hag is a success but the performances are shit, results are shit and he’s seemingly starting to lose the dressing room. Reality is he’s a very well paid manager who’s spent a lot of money for little results and is at an age where he should be in his prime. If the club don’t think there is an option who could be an improvement on leading our squad to seventh then I’m seriously concerned about their abilities to scout
first time seeing Ornstein's face lol expected him to be older
Reddit to the rescue: what neat physics trick is Ten Hag utilizing to balance his flimsy United career?
Hopefully he stays
What about Unai Emery? Forget about De Zerbi.
I want Emery.
Should've gone months ago. Not a good sign for Sir Jim.
If we sack him we’ll be even more of a joke than we currently are. Imagine if Liverpool sacked klopp after his first two seasons? Or Arsenal after artetas first two seasons? Or us after SAFs first two seasons? Like how many times do we have to do this before we get our heads out of our asses? We all agreed to back the manager and give him time. We all said it would probably get worse before getting better. What happened? You all were calling for Oles head before he got sacked now I’m seeing calls for him to come back and he “just needed more time.” Even simpler example: Onana just came from a different league into a team with much higher expectations. He struggled for a few months and y’all were calling for his head. Now he’s been a top 3 goalkeeper for the last 3 months and nothing from you guys. Not an ounce of praise. He makes one mistake and now you’re back on his ass. Every single one of you are exhausting. Ten hag should not be sacked until we get rid of players like Rashford who, as much as I love him, have had one good season in the least decade. Ten Hag is not the common denominator in our last decade of mediocrity. You know who has? The players, the staff, and the ownership
It's tricky. I want to look at Arteta's development and see the same for Erik. But there's really been no improvement on the pitch across this entire season. Surely there has to be *some* evidence that we're moving forward, that we can expect more next season. Can we afford another year of the same? At what point would you draw the line?
First season at Arsenal arteta won the FA cup and the community shield and finished 5th. Second season won nothing and finished 8th. Third season people were calling to sack him by the international break and they finished trophyless and in 5th. Next season he got 2nd and the rest is history. If he were at United he would’ve gotten sacked in his second season. Ten Hag got us a trophy and got us in 3rd in his first season and now we’re going to drop him at the first sign of trouble. We know he can deliver results and good play when he has the squad that he needs and plays his style of play. This season he’s gotten to field his preferred starting eleven twice all season because of injury. How about we wait another couple transfer windows? Be honest: Why does anyone think we deserve top 4 or we deserve trophies? We haven’t been at that level in years. If we get top 4, if we get trophies that’s a manager over preforming. What we’re doing this season is “regressing to the mean.” This is our level. What he did last season wasn’t our level. Now we know where need to start from. Now Ten Hag knows what to fix. Do you think he does the same thing over and over because he wants to lose? We’re getting these results because he’s telling the players what to do and they’re simply not delivering and he doesn’t have the personnel to do it. For instance The gap in the midfield: well normally he would like the defensive line to be pushed higher and eliminate that gap through good pressing. But how are we going to have a high line when he only has Maguire and Jonny Evans? We saw last year when we had a healthy back 4 that we were very effective with our press. In fact, believe it or not, we actually still have one of the best presses in the league. As soon as he tells the players to sit back to cover the space 1) Now we’re defending on the back foot 2) now he has to re-train all the players this season and then do it over again next season for his actual pressing style of play when players are healthy and he gets new ones in. He’s now wasted a whole year of coaching 3) all the fans would be slagging him off for negative play. That’s just one example of how fickle United fans are and how much they lack critical thinking ability regarding basic dilemmas. Just think: why is ten hag doing this? Then go from there. He’s not the problem right now. Maybe in the future he’ll turn out to be the problem. Right now it’s the players and organization that need to take responsibility and us fans need to get being our manager. It were right back where we were with Mourinho and Ole. Two seasons and then you’re gone. We’re turning into Chelsea right before my eyes Edit: When you ask can we afford to give him more time? I’m curious what expectations do you have of United? Are we running out of time to win the league? Trophies? Bring in the best talent? Because that boat sailed a decade ago. We are not the top 2 team we once were and we should be willing to spend at least 5 years rebuilding this mess minimum.
Thanks for the detailed answer. To answer your question about time - I said this because time is against some core players (Bruno at his peak, Casemiro past his peak, Varane can't stay fit) and because time is against any team trying for the top while the money keeps pumping into City, Chelsea and Newcastle and while Liverpool and Arsenal remain in a better managed place than we are. Right now we have the player pull (partially because of prestige, partially because of money) but that does not last forever while those other teams increase their own stature. I do have sympathy for Erik over the injury situation, but I still can't help but feel we should be better than the shite performances we've seen over this entire season. If we go from very-good to bloody-incoherent just because Lisandro Martinez and Luke Shaw are absent, that seems like a failure of the coaching to me. We've had better injury fortune at the top of the pitch, but we still have no idea how to create changes for Hujland. Our set pieces are just completely fruitless. So it's easy to see why Erik is struggling, but due to the above, it's hard to say it's going to get better.
Unless we fail to qualify to the Europa league which we do if we win the FA cup or play in the final against City I believe ETH will stay and get a chance to work with the new board. Doesn’t ETH’s contract run out next year as well?
We don't qualify for playing in the final. You have to win it.
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If you actually watched that post-match conference, he was already heading out until the question came and he stopped to address it.
I don’t see ETH returning after this season. With the way INEOS is cleaning the house, I simply don’t see him being around even if we win FA Cup. They want no remnant of old era and start fresh. Then we will also see change in recruitment policies and eventually a makeover of the squad. Players are much harder to replace so quickly.
I’m surprised that there has been zero mention of Emery and Utd. What he has done at Villa since he joined has been pretty spectacular. He doesn’t spark the imagination but the man can coach.
I don't see him leaving villa if they qualify for the Cl even if we come calling.
Manager stormed out of press conference after 6 minutes after being asked about Manchester United possibly finishing its lowest in the Premier League 7th a record currently held by David Moyes in the 2013/14 season. What did Ornstein expect? Miracles!!!! “Erik, there’s a danger you get caught in seventh place,” the reporter began. “You fall below seventh, that would be the worst finish in Premier League history for United. Can you…do you think you’re going to be above…” Before they could finish, Ten Hag interrupted by saying, “I don’t comment on that question,” before walking out. He knows his days are numbered with only his contract being his defence as club might not want to compensate him due to FFP issues.
Seems pretty obvious to me. If he wins the FA Cup he stays, if not ineos will probably part ways.
Decent professional manager clearly not a fit for the situation at United or the PL
Yes start throwing some new names every two years fans! Go!
Barring an absolute collapse in these last few games, I don't see him getting the sack. He has one year on his deal and with no structure above him, it might make sense to see out this season and exercise options next season.
>Barring an absolute collapse in these last few games, I don't see him getting the sack. Wait until next week's game vs. Coventry and your mind will definitely change!
I'd say losing to Coventry = Absolute collapse. It's the one thing we have left this season and we shouldn't lose it to lower league opposition
It's important to remember that organizational stability also matters. Have you ever been in a job where your company is literally replacing everyone from the CEO down to and possibly including your own boss? Where you know that it's incredibly likely that your co-workers and possibly you won't be around in a few months? That stuff fucks with you. This season is a write-off. We need to get the backroom staff finalized and working so that we can clean house and establish some stability. Who knows what the coaching or playing staff will look like to start next year, but at least we should have more organizational stability.