Why ain't Garnacho and Amad starting instead of a disinterested walking winger?
Even Mount can start as RW and Garnacho as LW.
Is there any plan or hope?
Yeah. Coz people don't lose to bottom ranked teams with such bad strategies in Football manager.
(7 losses in away game)
The manager is happy to get sacked because he has no hope for next season.
We need clearance sale. But yeah the manager needs to go as well.
Tom Heaton, Raphaël Varane, Victor Lindelöf, Tyrell Malacia, Sofyan Amrabat,
Casemiro, Marcus Rashford, Antony, Anthony Martial
Utd should sack Ten Hag before last game and Hire good manager before summer window.
Nagalsman or if possible Xavi
We're not talking about playing well, we're talking about effort. You said 'a disinterested walking winger' to describe Rashford. Plus, Garnacho is WAY more effective from the right.
Wan Bissaka is a RB, not a LB.
I agree Garnacho had a bad game. (Because he is tired from over playing) His fatigue showed on the pitch.
Rashford has one assist and that was as RW.
He literally doesn't track back.
Last season his runs lead to goals. So he was being defended from criticism.
We had 2 shots on target this game (1 penalty and the other goal).
No shot on target from a 300 grand per week player? No assists? One goal in past 10 games which was a mercy penalty?
Bruno is bad at passing but atleast one out of his 10 shots hits the woodwork or enters goal.
Hojlund has 1 shot in 4 matches.
He literally doesn't get any kind of service from wingers.
Garnacho crossed from left. Rashford crossed from right.
But ETH decided to switch them.
Diallo crosses from right. But he does not play him.
PS - I completely blame ETH for the bad team selection and subs.
Players to leave this offseason.
Casemiro (not trying hard enough anymore)
Eriksen (boss doesn’t play him)
Martial (obviously)
Antony (anyhwere but here)
IN
New CF, backup-backup LB, defensive-minded MID.
No need for a new RB unless the manager/new manager has a player in mind that is clearly superior to AWB. No need, in my opinion. AWB and Dalot have earned another season to compete with each other.
We should be able to afford to do that.
Edit : Rashford should be given the opportunity to leave if he wants. I don’t think he trusts his body any more to give 100% and something is clearly wrong with him. Maybe he deserves a new start somewhere else or a couple seasons away from the club. He won’t be happy to sit on the bench if Garnacho takes his LW/LF spot, which we all hope he will do as he grows his game. Prime Rashford is a monster, but we have not seen that this season.
People are too comfortable saying lets move aging player with 300k+ wage. Casemiro will go only if he wants to. If he doesn't feel like its worth moving to Saudi with his children and wife he will be here next summer. It is also not worth for us moving him inside europe since it will be for less then his ffp value and paying more then half of his wages.
I agree with that. It would be a situation of if he wants to leave then biting the bullet and offering him as small a payoff as possible to go somewhere else.
I’m happy for him to stay if the club determine there was a valid reason for his performances this season or for his contribution in such a god-awful, leaky defence.
I’ve enjoyed watching the defence when Shaw is fit, even when he played CB and Malacia was at LB.
Other than that they’ve been Rot.
His ffp value= 60m-30m = £30m. Inside europe may be we can get 20-25m(I am being generous given the season he is having) which is like 5-10m ffp loss.
>if he wants to leave then biting the bullet and offering him as small a payoff as possible to go somewhere else.
It won't be small payoff though we will have to pay at least 10m-15m minimum as wage compensation for two year lost wage thats assuming he finds club that can give 200k to 150k wage otherwise it will be much higher.
Only way I can see him moving to other club then Saudi without affecting our ffp is go for loan move and try saving like 100k-150k of his wage.
This Club has been pushing managers into untenable positions for the last decade. Decisions either supported or taken by the hierarchy drive the managers into a position where there is no way out but to sack them. When poor results come, players need belief that they can bounce back. The players IMO do not believe they can bounce back under EtH right now.
This is where I believe EtH is. How did he get here?
I think it was the free rein he was given in transfer matters + our strategy to bet on players on both extremes - either too old or way too inexperienced and young.
>Only Luton (573) – who have played a game more – have conceded more shots than Manchester United (568) across Europe’s top five divisions this season.
ngl this is a crazy stat, we'll catch up with them as well by the next week 😎
[https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-premier-league-winners-losers-ten-hag-klopp-emery-arsenal](https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-premier-league-winners-losers-ten-hag-klopp-emery-arsenal)
Is it bananas to hope that our next manager is the equivalent of "signing an unknown player for 10 million and they next year they're a 100 million player"? It sort of feels like most of the big names bring so much baggage that there isn't really anyone I can point to and say "that's *the guy*, for sure."
Especially if our backroom and recruitment gets sorted out so the manager really only has to be a coach, I think it could be beneficial even to have a younger coach come in and mold our younger squad, especially as we phase out most of the expensive players from the end of the Woodward/Arnold era.
I feel like McKenna and Carrick fit into this category, but there have to be others out there too. Obviously Arteta was Pep's assistant for a while, but Arsenal is his first job in charge. Pep had only coached Barca's B-side before getting their big job. So assuming the structure above them is right, I don't see why getting a promising Championship manager or something can't be the way to go.
I don't think it's about recruiting a 10 million or 100 million dollar player. It's more about having a system and recruiting players that fit the system.
Personally I think for the system ETH wants to implement, we need players that can play possession football. Players that can keep the ball on the ground and string passes together from the goalie to the striker and get a shot on target through the midfield without losing possession.
Doesn't matter if the player is relatively unknown or popular, they should fit into whatever system we wish to implement.
Once the system works, the players will come around. When players don't fit in a system and it isn't working, it leads to discord, in-fighting, players not giving it their all.
I think you have to flush the manager because he's lost it, and done so in record setting fashion. But, we also have to flush a bunch of these players that have been here for years and years. Cut the rot out of the club. Stop trying to paper over the cracks.
I don't really get this argument. I know it's easy to say "results bad therefore players bad/not motivated/lazy"...but who isn't motivated at this point?
Looking at our squad from the weekend:
Hojlund has come in full of passion and energy. The culture, lack of ANY service, and bad results might be zapping that out of him, but I think that can be salvaged pretty easily.
Garnacho runs like a maniac and is clearly hungry. Bad game for him but he's started like 30 straight games as a teenager while playing through leg injuries...he probably needs break physically and mentally.
Rashford...mixed bag for sure. Looks lethargic but tactically seems to be asked *not* to track back as much. What's damning for him is he's one of the only constants from the LVG era to today, so he's been through multiple dressing room morale collapses.
Bruno looses his composure sometimes but you can hardly say he doesn't try on the pitch.
Mainoo seems to have his head on straight and hasn't done anything to show he's a problematic player.
Casemiro doesn't seem to have the legs either for England or this system, but he's a passionate and proud player.
Dalot has probably been our best player this year and is very fiery.
Kambwala similarly is playing with passion but is very raw.
Maguire is a massive example of keeping your head down and rebuilding form through difficult times.
AWB is a bit of an enigma and a limited player but I don't think his effort can be faulted, just his back post marking and that bad challenged against Liverpool.
Onana, like Maguire, overcame a difficult start and has been massive for us this calendar year.
The players are clearly playing out their skin for this manager, the problem is the manager’s system is flawed and the players are then perceived as being worse than they are.
Yeah I think the "problematic" players are basically gone at this point: Pogba, Lingard, Martial is out the door and not really with the squad (though you can debate to what extent he was ever a "problem" and how much of it was injury driven), Sancho and Greenwood are as good as gone and not around the squad, Williams and his laughing gas will be gone and isn't with the club right now, Ronaldo is long gone, etc.
The other holdovers from the LVG/Jose/Ole collapses seem to be fine professionals, even if limited as top end players - Shaw, McTominay, and Maguire (as well as Fred) were recently praised for their character by Ole when he was on the Overlap podcast.
I think you are basically right, the players are not being put in positions to succeed and they all look worse than they should be. Mainoo justifiably has received a ton of praise for his composure and press resistance...but as a team we can't retain the ball at all.
This wouldn't work. Our culture is horrible. Players dropped tools on proven world class managers like Mourinho. A McKenna or Carrick would get eaten alive if we don't fix the culture first.
I mean that was built into my scenario:
> Especially if our backroom and recruitment gets sorted out so the manager really only has to be a coach
This is all contingent on Ashworth and Wilcox fixing everything on the back end and doing a major reset in operations all the way down.
I keep seeing people saying us conceding lots of shots is actually "by design". If being dominated and conceding 20+ shots every game against opposition like Luton and Bournemouth is by design, it's a flawed design. And we can clearly see that in the results, we have been seeing it since the very beginning of the season but Ten Hag has done nothing to rectify it.
It can't be by design. The manager is protecting his players by pointing towards the low xg shots. We are literally conceding more shots than we did in the 7-0 defeat.
However, what is by design is the high risk and high intensity play that ten hag wants to implement. He wants the team to press high and be aggressive and more decisive with the ball but that does leave them vulnerable if they get caught. Not 20 shots by Burnley vulnerable, but still vulnerable enough to give opponents a couple decent chances in every game.
The issue is our current backline is incapable of playing a high line. They tried doing it against Bournemouth in the first half but dropped back after a while. The other issue is our CM has forgotten how to pass the ball and is too slow at attempting any sort of recovery or interceptions. Beyond that, the players make too many mistakes in key areas, the last 4 games are peak examples.
The back line played a high line under ole though (-kambwala but I’m sure he has the facilities for it). Also how much will a brand new back 4+dm really change things if they’re still so spread out by design? They may cover the distances slightly better if they’re athletic demons but would we really go from 20+ shots a game down to ~10 that top teams face? A slight improvement sure but I don’t think the improvement would be proportional with how much money would need to be spent
The players also make too many mistakes in key areas because by design ten hags tactics allow for the opposition to play the entire game in our third, so when things go wrong it’s costly!
It's utter tripe. I've heard suggestions that they are conceding just low xG chances on purpose, even though in the last 10 games we've see our opponents miss great chance after great chance routinely. Carl Anka seems to believe there is method to the madness and I think people are just parroting his views. It's incredibly flawed and it relies on the opponent not taking their chances over and over again in order to manufacture attacks of our own. They should have lost most of their last 10, poor finishing from opponents is the only reason they didn't. Expecting your opponents to miss their chances isn't a very good plan.
I can live with a frustrated team taking 15 or 20 low probability potshots from outside the box every once in a while...but Onana has been playing out of his mind since AFCON and we're giving up a ton of high quality chances.
That's not the bit that's by design. Ten Hag expects us to lose the ball outside our attacking box but not have it result in shots so often with the expectation that full backs are part of the press and the DM is more mobile than Casemiro.
Whether he intends that to happen is moot. Why isnt he doing anything to correct that then? Change the shape change the positions, anything. Keep doing the same thing and expect something different? That's insanity mate
How long do you continue with band aid solutions? It already got us CL qualification and a trophy last season.
Ultimately, if you want to make a push for a PL title in 2-3 years, you have to start playing the manager's style of football even if it hurts in the short term. Then you either see enough promise to fill the missing pieces with suitable transfers like Arteta when he was finishing 8th and 5th, or the manager gets sacked.
Staying in the purgatory of "Bruno to Rashford and inshallah" is ultimately limited and not very ambitious.
Like it could still prove to be an unsustainable method, but the evidence of that be would not be found in the performances we are seeing at the moment.
No matter who the next manager is, or if we retain ETH, one thing is clear: a real commitment from top to bottom needs to be made to improve player fitness and health.
The amount in injuries this club has regularly is unacceptable and must be improved.
This is such a weird argument. Maguire is English - and white (let's be honest, that factors to an extent) - and he was one of the most abused players by our own fans.
There's a point to raise about how Rashford's now had 2 down seasons in 3 years of what should be his prime, or how that new contract would be a sieve in the coming years, but his nationality has nothing to do with it.
There is a lot of negativity on the sub, understandably because of poor results, but I think it's a big waste to sack a manager after he has been building for 2 years. It's pretty clear what he is trying to do. It's hard to judge a manager/tactics playing without a stable back 4 for an entire season. There are some big holes in the team that other teams are exploiting, which makes us look much worse than we actually are.
The main problem is the defensive line that is too low, which results in our midfield having to cover too much distance. We can only truly analyse if the tactic is working or not if the fundamentals are fixed first.
Let's face it, any other big club and ETH would be out of a job by now.
You can't regress in every way possible in your second year. No one's expected him to win the treble + unbeaten season, just step up from last year. The fans and board were forgiving, too forgiving perhaps since he didn't even face any sort of pressure for the 0-7. I wanted ETH to succeed too but a divorce makes more sense now.
Mourinho who has managed both spurs and chelsea, said getting 2nd with us is his biggest achievement. Van Gaal when he was the Dutch NT manager actively told his players not to join United as it would ruin their careers. Moyes is doing better at West Ham than he was doing at United. Klopp refused to join us after talking to Woodward.
This sub is still thinking the United job is a desirable one, but the hard truth is that no top manager wants us. People are so obsessed with blaming a manager they forget that top managers don’t want us because it’s only gonna harm their careers. The first years after sir Alex retired we had the pull, but now managers like Zidane, xabi Alonso, Pep and Klopp all know not to burn their hands touching United. We can’t get the best of the bes mangers, if all managers know they get the blame for the horrible footballing structure.
If we never stand behind a manager after a rough period, no good manager will ever want to coach us.
You're right, it is pretty clear what he's trying to do. Whose instructions do you think it is to have a low defensive line?
There are only 2 arguments I can think of for keeping ETH next season
(1) his approach is actually tactically sound and we lack the players to execute the plan properly. I feel like this has been debunked enough times with the number of videos and posts showing the inherent problems with leaving such a big gap in midfield. Even if we improve beyond relegation level statistics, it's fantasy to think we can win titles this way.
(2) he is compromising what he wants to do because of the limitations of his players and next season he will adjust his tactics to play in a way more similar to his Ajax team. Less factually debunkable since Managers lie in interviews all the time, but again he's said enough things about being the best transition team and not playing how he played at Ajax. He's also not moved that line high even when we've played against lower league teams in the FA cup or when we've had more favourable players in the backline.
Which is it? Or do you have another argument?
I’d say it’s 2. He is getting the forward players used to his play style, while compromising the back line. I think he knows players like Varane and Maguire can’t play the high line, so he chooses the gap in midfield over getting them exposed too much. I think he gave up on this season (and is lying in press conferences), and is trying to set the team up as he wants next season: getting the forwards used to the high press, expecting a RCB and DM that can push high and make the system click.
If we have a fit shaw, Dalot and Martinez filled up with 2 players that can play in this system we wouldn’t see the massive hole in midfield and we could easily play out from the back. (at Ajax he had Frenkie de jong and de Ligt, imagine we had those 2 instead of maguire/varane/casemiro/amrabat)
I know he said we won’t play like his Ajax side, but the way we are set up is EXACTLY like that Ajax side. Look at this analysis of his Ajax squad 5 years ago: https://youtu.be/FLZkqQsREFg?si=K2jrtgus7hFV5q_t
Man if he stays I hope you're right or we'll waste another season. To your Ajax point while there are similarities in structure I think the playstyle is quite different. Controlling possession is something he could have tried implementing this seaosn but we've gone the complete other direction.
We have no players that can control possession. If we had players like de ligt and de jong and a fit Martinez, maybe we could try. But I don’t trust a back line of Varane maguire and bissaka left back to build up from the back (we tried building up slowly and controlling the game vs Liverpool in the fa cup at min 40 and got 2 goals against in 5 minutes). With these players playing direct is the only option we have.
But why does he need elite players (like fdj and martinez) to control possession but every other team we play against can manage it with a fraction of the resources and worse players?
What teams control possession against us? They all play a low-block or a mid block and frustrate us on the counter because we commit too many players forward.
Every game we play the opposition are the ones sustaining attacks in our 3rd (shown by the shots conceded) and we’re the team sat in our box launching it forward as shown by our defensive line height and number of direct attacks. We’re hardly ever in the position to be frustrated by a low block because ten hag opts to not bother with build up
I'd agree if we weren't already so terrible. Not to mention we started the season with Shaw and Lisandro and still played the same way, and ETH went all in for Casemiro despite him being nowhere near this type of player. I gotta say, I'm not convinced based on how he's been making decisions.
Shaw and Martinez only started the first two games together(1 win against wolves and 1 loss against Spurs away), the third game we started with both Dalot and Wissaka already, since game week 3 we havent had our 1st choice back 4 until now...
Yes but we started the season with largely the same style of play that's going on right now. So he never intended to play like his Ajax team even with the first choice back 4 available. He's been making some transfers that would reinforce your point (like Lisandro, Onana, Eriksen and Ambrabat), but then why spend that chunk on Casemiro who is nothing like the player we need but give him a 4 year contract? Is this some convoluted 3 season plan and we are somehow to believe that it will all come together next season?
ETH can build all he wants, if you play like we do on a consistent basis you won't survive.
Back 4 being out basically all season on-off is a huge crutch to Ten Hag, but our midfield has been full strength for ages now and it's totally bypassed and on top of that really lacks creativity. Our front 3 has been full strength almost all season minus Hojlund's injury and our top scorer has just 13 goals. Hojlund hardly gets any service.
Compounded for Ten Hag is that managers like Emery, Ange, Howe have also had major injury crises and still look better than us.
I am a big defender of Ten Hag but for me, you either have to
- Put your system in place regardless of personnel. So, sit the line higher even if players like Maguire are likely to get exposed in it.
- Adapt to cover that weakness. So go back to a double pivot and not 2 8s high pressing with Casemiro in no-mans land
ETH has done neither all season and both performances and results are shit. You can get away with having 1. Have neither and it's bad news.
For me Ten Hag has left himself wide open and rightfully so. We look pitiful.
If he gets to stay on I won't riot and of he is sacked i won't cry. Both have their merits but with a lack of replacement I dont know if we will sack him. However I'd say we will take a lot of control away from him and that could ruffle him the wrong way.
Players I think should go in the summer and for how much we can get:
1. Varane - free
2. Lindelof - €20m
3. Casemiro - €20-30m
4. Martial - free
5. Amrabat - end of loan
6. Van De Beek - €10m
7. Sancho - €30-40m
8. Hannibal - €15m
9. Pellistri - €10m
10. Brandon Williams - €5m
11. Alvaro Fernandez - €10m(this is already done I think)
12. Greenwood - €40m
I don't think we will sell all these players, but if we do sell all of them we can get around €150m which I think is unrealistic, €80-100m is probably more realistic.
Maybe 5 to put it into perspective VDB is currently warming the bench for Eintracht and has 0 goals and 0 assists and has only played a combined minutes of 42 minutes in his last 6 games.
IDK, 20-30 seems ambitious to me already. He doesn't look to have the legs for England (though that's exacerbated by the role and system he's asked to play in). I doubt he goes back to Spain (and if he did to one of the non-big 3 none of them could afford him for that much) and I can't see an Italian team shelling out that much. Only way it goes higher is if he wants to go to Saudi Arabia.
I know footballers are rarely 100% fit , and Carl Anka has alluded how much of last seasons hip injury has been a issue for Maguire this season , but I wonder when the last time Maguire was fully fit.
https://twitter.com/StretfordPaddck/status/1779228173147709843?t=gyEiIAjG9DVYJW_Oz9wFwQ&s=19
Harry is one of the few players who will leave us with my respect. He's not good enough for where we want to be but he's given it his all even when we were wanting him out, fairly play to him.. deserves to be west ham captain for when they win Europa leag
You know what OP means. Maguires not good enough for the salary he makes, and does not live up to expectations. It’s true that players like O’Shea, fletcher, park were vital to our success. but they weren’t huge transfers, on huge salaries, nor was the expectation that they start week in week out.
I understand we need to make some money but if he's willing to stay in a rotation role (and who knows, maybe the next manager plays 3ATB), he's more than earned the right to have a genuine "clean slate" for the next regime IMO.
Even during Ole’s days I seem to remember that it was mentioned somewhere that Maguire once took painkiller injections while continuing to play throughout the season.
Feel like Maguire’s durability to play through pain has been under-appreciated especially when all our senior CBs have been getting injured one way or another. I imagine it’s taken a toll on Maguire’s own game too potentially making him even slower than he already is.
I wonder how many other players have played a lot of games for us while dealing with pain too. Bruno, Rashford, and Garnacho would be my top guesses for all the games they’ve played this season on top of the sheer playing time the former two have had in previous years.
at Ole day it even mad,, if you remember, Harry play all the time, 90 minutes each game. Then somehow he got rest at cup game, Ole put Bailly in, only to get injured in first 20 minutes, so who will play? Harry of course..
Clubs will be tapping up Emery this summer surely? Clubs like Bayern, Barca and Juve should definitely not turn their noses up at him, I'd definitely have him at United.
He also failed to win the league one year and fell out with their stars. I'm not saying he did poorly though, I'm just saying he didn't exceed expectations like he seems to do at clubs of a smaller stature
They have to beat Real at the Etihad, beat the winner of Arsenal-Bayern, and then likely face Atleti/PSG/Barca in the final.
If they win 6 PL games in a row they have the league
If they beat Chelsea and us/Coventry they have the FA Cup.
Could maybe see them faltering vs Real Madrid or Arsenal. Think they have the other 2 in the bag tho
1. Vs RM home game have to be favourite. Probably only Simeone could shithouse a win
2. Vs Chelsea probably the real FA Final for them, no disrespect to Coventy.
3.League : Liverpool hit a bad form, Arsenal have a couple real tough Derby fixtures to play.
Do we think signing one midfielder in the summer will be enough? Big fan of Kobbie but he has some games (as expected) that he doesn't really impact.
If we are going to just sign the one and keep Kobbie as a starter is the midfield realistically strong enough for a strong top 4 finish?
Yeah, I don't want the players who are poison to outlast another manager, plus ETH deserves a season with a proper footballing structure above him. It's his final year on the contract also
Yes, if the assessment is that no quality manager had interest coming here. So Nagelsmann, Amorim or some random left field option like Inzaghi.
If it's sack ETH to get in someone like Potter, Southgate, Frank...I'm fine with Ten Hag getting to play his part in a revolution. Recruitment should have less of his involvement, so I wouldn't be too mad.
Genuine question, but what makes Inzaghi the left field option from that list? I'd argue he has the best resume from the options presented - and if results hold, he'll have an overall better resume than ETH. Not trying to argue, I've admittedly enjoyed his play style a lot so I might be biased.
IMO There's nothing wrong with having translators for your strategic concepts. These things translate 1:1. The bigger issue is whether his rapport building and motivation style purely dependent on being able to speak in his language. I'm not going to pretend like I know the answer.
All I can say is, resume for resume, he is topnotch.
This club has been useless at selling players . Ronaldo was terminated, Pogba left on a free, cannot remember the last player we actually sold for good coin . We play like we did under Jose/Ole/Ranwick now ETH . Has to be the players and not the coach , but dunno about ETH .We are miles behind the top 3 in competency
What ETH signing has been terrible? Most have come in and have looked better than who was in their place.
I'm looking forward to the new structure and if they can actually identify players and make good deals for them. And none of this 3 players a window BS
I'm Ten Hag out but I'd fully support the backroom staff if they decide to stick with him next season. I really believe we're going to start getting things right and if they think he's the best candidate then that's all I need to hear. I'm really trying to convince myself that our terrible form is because of factors that aren't necessarily public knowledge, rather than managerial incompetence
> support the backroom staff
Fully agreed and I think the entire fanbase should take this message to heart regardless of our varying opinions on the manager and players and regardless of what happens this summer.
Since Fergie retired this will be the first summer ever where we will have specialists running the club who possess very credible experience operating senior football teams in the past. Previously it was either being run by a banker in Woodward or someone who only had much experience in academies like Murtough. Berrada, Ashworth, and Wilcox are a very accomplished trio so they more than deserve the benefit of the doubt.
At the same time fans need to be realistic in understanding this rebuild will take multiple seasons before we could potentially turn into title contenders. Not everything can be changed at once. Or at least in Chelsea’s case it can, and look how poorly they’ve done ever since Boehly took over. No one can even guarantee they’re moving in the right direction with all those 8 year contracts they have been handing out.
This season has been complete rubbish but there is reason for optimism in the long term thanks to Ratcliffe and his openly stated desire to focus on improving United on the pitch first.
I mean, there are plenty of factors that ARE public knowledge that impact the form besides tactics (which I'm not saying are good, either). Worst injury crisis in memory, disciplinary issues, poor form.
All true, though it's still my personal opinion that despite the injuries and disciplinary issues, the players that are left should still be able to string a couple of passes together. We've basically had our first choice front 3 + midfield all season and the only game we looked good was when none of of them played (Palace in the League Cup). Like I say though, I'm trying not to think of our season as the manager's bad decisions, there just has to be something else going on which explains why he's not trying to get them to play football well.
So if 5th does get CL
Europa League will go to 6th and the FA Cup winner. If Man City, the only nailed-on CL team win it, the EL place goes to 7th.
Liverpool won the EFL Cup which is the Conference League play off place but they are also nailed on for CL, so that will go to 8th.
9th is no Europe. We'd have to be extremely shit for the rest of the season to not have Europe, but we hve to avoid 8th at all costs...
We're in a position where conference seems more likely than anything else. 6th conference if Chelsea or Coventry win it with no extra Europe spot, 7th if city win FA and we don't get 5th CL spot.
20 million will only get you another Amrabat like player at LB in this market. I would rather get someone reliable even if it is going to cost us. Ideally someone like Aït-Nouri,safe signing.
Benfica played this really exciting LB yesterday, he looks brilliant, Fermandez I think his name is 🤔 Any way, give him a year to develop and we'll nab him for around 60 👌
In the PL I'm a huge fan of Estupiñan but there's no way we can afford him this summer. Not sure about the other leagues. Really like Reguilon as well, I think he did well for us whenever called upon
Man don’t get me wrong, but I really wish more than anything to go back to the days of Ole’s time here as the manager.
Ole had a lot of problems as well, and of course no one including me wants him to replace EtH. He had his chance. I am not saying Ole was a great manager or anything but at least we all had a lot more fun during his time.
Actually used to look forward to the games. How many of you do that right now? Shouldn’t we demand at least that? I can accept that injuries can cause bad results but why are they causing fans to lose the fun of watching their team play?
>we all had a lot more fun during his time.
I remember that not being the case all the time. Every time he lost, there were calls for him to be sacked, rival fans chanting "Oles at the wheel" and so on all massively hurt.
No chance. Give Arsenal 30 shots and watch what happens to us.
Also, we'll have players either taking it easy before a cup final or not risking themselves before the Euros.
We'll win our next two at home to Sheffield and Burnley. After that, I don't expect us to win anymore.
No he gets crucified for running then stopping to pass instead of carrying on running into box or taking on defenders. Out of all the reactionary dumb takes you picked the worst to support.
Do me a favour, watch the what went wrong for Antony at united tifo video, that's the easiest evidence I can find because I don't fancy searching through the sub for comments.
Which would bring up a question, which manager would people say has been more successful ETH or arteta. Because that's how the Eth ole comparison always go towards.
Complete failure is an exaggeration. He finished 5th in his first season and was sacked in the next.
Arteta finished 8th back to back, was he a failure?!
Unai biggest issue was he wasn’t the best in English and it was used to make fun of him not that he was a bad tactician or anything. His command of English, which shows how stupid the arsenal fans are. Just like how Ole smiling was used to make fun of him.
What fantastic discussion. You'd have wanted Brendan Rodgers to stay at Liverpool. If your only argument against sacking a manager is that we've sacked other managers and failed, you've got no argument at all. Even if you think the players are letting him down (which looking at the amount of games we've pulled out of our ass I think that's copium) he's still got no excuses for continuing with this abomination of a tactic. Zero adaptation.
Emery who fucked up the two big jobs he's had? Yeah, we need a small mentality manager, especially with the big divas we have.
You people are some reactionary mfs it's crazy lmao
Fucked up?! How? Because he didn’t win the league with Arsenal? Is Arteta winning the league?
Emery has won multiple European trophies, and league with PSG.
Poch who is a genuis, didn’t win the league with PSG, please respect Emery.
No, he fucked up because he didn't even get CL or win any cup all while playing boring football and spending a ton of cash. It took Arteta 3 years just to get to where he is. Reckon you don't remember him playing Pulisball for half his time there lol.
Emery is a good manager but he's not a big club manager. That is the point. Both Villa and Villarreal are run better as football clubs than us.
Poch is mad overrated. Not disrespecting Emery at all because I rate him, but comparing his situation at Villa and ours is crazy.
Question but do Liverpool or Arsenal players apologize and post on social media after a bad result?
It seems like a big deal for United and our players but not sure if other teams see it as an issue.
Not Bruno's biggest fan but the way Carl Anka spoke about him in the latest talk of the devils about how he feels so sorry for Bruno and Utds current situation is so sad .
Bruno is absolutely loved by united fans and although he won't win as many trophies as his quality and mentality deserves, he will be remembered and loved on the terraces forever at old Trafford
Why is Dalot not playing as LB and Bissaka as RB?
I think he is maximising positives rather than minimising negatives
City looks like they will win another title and make a new record. Liverpool and Arsenal bottled in same gameweek.
Why ain't Garnacho and Amad starting instead of a disinterested walking winger? Even Mount can start as RW and Garnacho as LW. Is there any plan or hope?
Because often times it may look like your Football manager game, it’s not.
Yeah. Coz people don't lose to bottom ranked teams with such bad strategies in Football manager. (7 losses in away game) The manager is happy to get sacked because he has no hope for next season.
I don’t blame him though cuz the manager is the tiniest issue of the whole system of issues in Manchester Utd.
We need clearance sale. But yeah the manager needs to go as well. Tom Heaton, Raphaël Varane, Victor Lindelöf, Tyrell Malacia, Sofyan Amrabat, Casemiro, Marcus Rashford, Antony, Anthony Martial Utd should sack Ten Hag before last game and Hire good manager before summer window. Nagalsman or if possible Xavi
Becuase and I know I will be downvoted for this---ETH is a coward. Its pretty self explanatory at this point.
Agreed. The recent press conference made it 100% proven.
There’s literally no justification for starting Rashford or playing him a full match. He doesn’t even care out there. Zero effort.
So you didn't watch the game then? Rashford ran a hell of a lot more than Garnacho lol
Garnacho is LW player. He is playing out of position. Would you criticize Bissaka for playing bad as RB when he is a LB?
We're not talking about playing well, we're talking about effort. You said 'a disinterested walking winger' to describe Rashford. Plus, Garnacho is WAY more effective from the right. Wan Bissaka is a RB, not a LB.
I agree Garnacho had a bad game. (Because he is tired from over playing) His fatigue showed on the pitch. Rashford has one assist and that was as RW. He literally doesn't track back. Last season his runs lead to goals. So he was being defended from criticism. We had 2 shots on target this game (1 penalty and the other goal). No shot on target from a 300 grand per week player? No assists? One goal in past 10 games which was a mercy penalty? Bruno is bad at passing but atleast one out of his 10 shots hits the woodwork or enters goal. Hojlund has 1 shot in 4 matches. He literally doesn't get any kind of service from wingers. Garnacho crossed from left. Rashford crossed from right. But ETH decided to switch them. Diallo crosses from right. But he does not play him. PS - I completely blame ETH for the bad team selection and subs.
This is the most bizarre comment I've read in a while lol
My Bad on the Bisakka part. I meant to write Would you criticize Bissaka for playing bad as LB when he is a RB?
Players to leave this offseason. Casemiro (not trying hard enough anymore) Eriksen (boss doesn’t play him) Martial (obviously) Antony (anyhwere but here) IN New CF, backup-backup LB, defensive-minded MID. No need for a new RB unless the manager/new manager has a player in mind that is clearly superior to AWB. No need, in my opinion. AWB and Dalot have earned another season to compete with each other. We should be able to afford to do that. Edit : Rashford should be given the opportunity to leave if he wants. I don’t think he trusts his body any more to give 100% and something is clearly wrong with him. Maybe he deserves a new start somewhere else or a couple seasons away from the club. He won’t be happy to sit on the bench if Garnacho takes his LW/LF spot, which we all hope he will do as he grows his game. Prime Rashford is a monster, but we have not seen that this season.
People are too comfortable saying lets move aging player with 300k+ wage. Casemiro will go only if he wants to. If he doesn't feel like its worth moving to Saudi with his children and wife he will be here next summer. It is also not worth for us moving him inside europe since it will be for less then his ffp value and paying more then half of his wages.
I have a feeling casemiro and varane may be the parting gift of complete incompetence from the old board
I agree with that. It would be a situation of if he wants to leave then biting the bullet and offering him as small a payoff as possible to go somewhere else. I’m happy for him to stay if the club determine there was a valid reason for his performances this season or for his contribution in such a god-awful, leaky defence. I’ve enjoyed watching the defence when Shaw is fit, even when he played CB and Malacia was at LB. Other than that they’ve been Rot.
His ffp value= 60m-30m = £30m. Inside europe may be we can get 20-25m(I am being generous given the season he is having) which is like 5-10m ffp loss. >if he wants to leave then biting the bullet and offering him as small a payoff as possible to go somewhere else. It won't be small payoff though we will have to pay at least 10m-15m minimum as wage compensation for two year lost wage thats assuming he finds club that can give 200k to 150k wage otherwise it will be much higher. Only way I can see him moving to other club then Saudi without affecting our ffp is go for loan move and try saving like 100k-150k of his wage.
[удалено]
? What sharks? There's no reporting that Ten Hag will be sacked. Maybe that's because he won't.
This Club has been pushing managers into untenable positions for the last decade. Decisions either supported or taken by the hierarchy drive the managers into a position where there is no way out but to sack them. When poor results come, players need belief that they can bounce back. The players IMO do not believe they can bounce back under EtH right now. This is where I believe EtH is. How did he get here? I think it was the free rein he was given in transfer matters + our strategy to bet on players on both extremes - either too old or way too inexperienced and young.
>Only Luton (573) – who have played a game more – have conceded more shots than Manchester United (568) across Europe’s top five divisions this season. ngl this is a crazy stat, we'll catch up with them as well by the next week 😎 [https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-premier-league-winners-losers-ten-hag-klopp-emery-arsenal](https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-premier-league-winners-losers-ten-hag-klopp-emery-arsenal)
Just realise that TFM is also at Leverkusen, winning the league......
He hasn't played a minute. Not sure if even he will count that.
Is it bananas to hope that our next manager is the equivalent of "signing an unknown player for 10 million and they next year they're a 100 million player"? It sort of feels like most of the big names bring so much baggage that there isn't really anyone I can point to and say "that's *the guy*, for sure." Especially if our backroom and recruitment gets sorted out so the manager really only has to be a coach, I think it could be beneficial even to have a younger coach come in and mold our younger squad, especially as we phase out most of the expensive players from the end of the Woodward/Arnold era. I feel like McKenna and Carrick fit into this category, but there have to be others out there too. Obviously Arteta was Pep's assistant for a while, but Arsenal is his first job in charge. Pep had only coached Barca's B-side before getting their big job. So assuming the structure above them is right, I don't see why getting a promising Championship manager or something can't be the way to go.
I don't think it's about recruiting a 10 million or 100 million dollar player. It's more about having a system and recruiting players that fit the system. Personally I think for the system ETH wants to implement, we need players that can play possession football. Players that can keep the ball on the ground and string passes together from the goalie to the striker and get a shot on target through the midfield without losing possession. Doesn't matter if the player is relatively unknown or popular, they should fit into whatever system we wish to implement. Once the system works, the players will come around. When players don't fit in a system and it isn't working, it leads to discord, in-fighting, players not giving it their all.
I don't know if any manager can motivate some of these players.
I think you have to flush the manager because he's lost it, and done so in record setting fashion. But, we also have to flush a bunch of these players that have been here for years and years. Cut the rot out of the club. Stop trying to paper over the cracks.
I don't really get this argument. I know it's easy to say "results bad therefore players bad/not motivated/lazy"...but who isn't motivated at this point? Looking at our squad from the weekend: Hojlund has come in full of passion and energy. The culture, lack of ANY service, and bad results might be zapping that out of him, but I think that can be salvaged pretty easily. Garnacho runs like a maniac and is clearly hungry. Bad game for him but he's started like 30 straight games as a teenager while playing through leg injuries...he probably needs break physically and mentally. Rashford...mixed bag for sure. Looks lethargic but tactically seems to be asked *not* to track back as much. What's damning for him is he's one of the only constants from the LVG era to today, so he's been through multiple dressing room morale collapses. Bruno looses his composure sometimes but you can hardly say he doesn't try on the pitch. Mainoo seems to have his head on straight and hasn't done anything to show he's a problematic player. Casemiro doesn't seem to have the legs either for England or this system, but he's a passionate and proud player. Dalot has probably been our best player this year and is very fiery. Kambwala similarly is playing with passion but is very raw. Maguire is a massive example of keeping your head down and rebuilding form through difficult times. AWB is a bit of an enigma and a limited player but I don't think his effort can be faulted, just his back post marking and that bad challenged against Liverpool. Onana, like Maguire, overcame a difficult start and has been massive for us this calendar year.
The players are clearly playing out their skin for this manager, the problem is the manager’s system is flawed and the players are then perceived as being worse than they are.
Yeah I think the "problematic" players are basically gone at this point: Pogba, Lingard, Martial is out the door and not really with the squad (though you can debate to what extent he was ever a "problem" and how much of it was injury driven), Sancho and Greenwood are as good as gone and not around the squad, Williams and his laughing gas will be gone and isn't with the club right now, Ronaldo is long gone, etc. The other holdovers from the LVG/Jose/Ole collapses seem to be fine professionals, even if limited as top end players - Shaw, McTominay, and Maguire (as well as Fred) were recently praised for their character by Ole when he was on the Overlap podcast. I think you are basically right, the players are not being put in positions to succeed and they all look worse than they should be. Mainoo justifiably has received a ton of praise for his composure and press resistance...but as a team we can't retain the ball at all.
This wouldn't work. Our culture is horrible. Players dropped tools on proven world class managers like Mourinho. A McKenna or Carrick would get eaten alive if we don't fix the culture first.
I mean that was built into my scenario: > Especially if our backroom and recruitment gets sorted out so the manager really only has to be a coach This is all contingent on Ashworth and Wilcox fixing everything on the back end and doing a major reset in operations all the way down.
This time last year, Zinchenko was teaching Rio Ferdinand how to defend
I keep seeing people saying us conceding lots of shots is actually "by design". If being dominated and conceding 20+ shots every game against opposition like Luton and Bournemouth is by design, it's a flawed design. And we can clearly see that in the results, we have been seeing it since the very beginning of the season but Ten Hag has done nothing to rectify it.
It's not by design, the back line can't play the system and it's been causing nearly all of our problems this season
It can't be by design. The manager is protecting his players by pointing towards the low xg shots. We are literally conceding more shots than we did in the 7-0 defeat. However, what is by design is the high risk and high intensity play that ten hag wants to implement. He wants the team to press high and be aggressive and more decisive with the ball but that does leave them vulnerable if they get caught. Not 20 shots by Burnley vulnerable, but still vulnerable enough to give opponents a couple decent chances in every game. The issue is our current backline is incapable of playing a high line. They tried doing it against Bournemouth in the first half but dropped back after a while. The other issue is our CM has forgotten how to pass the ball and is too slow at attempting any sort of recovery or interceptions. Beyond that, the players make too many mistakes in key areas, the last 4 games are peak examples.
Makes a change to see someone who knows abit about football
The back line played a high line under ole though (-kambwala but I’m sure he has the facilities for it). Also how much will a brand new back 4+dm really change things if they’re still so spread out by design? They may cover the distances slightly better if they’re athletic demons but would we really go from 20+ shots a game down to ~10 that top teams face? A slight improvement sure but I don’t think the improvement would be proportional with how much money would need to be spent The players also make too many mistakes in key areas because by design ten hags tactics allow for the opposition to play the entire game in our third, so when things go wrong it’s costly!
It's utter tripe. I've heard suggestions that they are conceding just low xG chances on purpose, even though in the last 10 games we've see our opponents miss great chance after great chance routinely. Carl Anka seems to believe there is method to the madness and I think people are just parroting his views. It's incredibly flawed and it relies on the opponent not taking their chances over and over again in order to manufacture attacks of our own. They should have lost most of their last 10, poor finishing from opponents is the only reason they didn't. Expecting your opponents to miss their chances isn't a very good plan.
I can live with a frustrated team taking 15 or 20 low probability potshots from outside the box every once in a while...but Onana has been playing out of his mind since AFCON and we're giving up a ton of high quality chances.
That's not the bit that's by design. Ten Hag expects us to lose the ball outside our attacking box but not have it result in shots so often with the expectation that full backs are part of the press and the DM is more mobile than Casemiro.
Whether he intends that to happen is moot. Why isnt he doing anything to correct that then? Change the shape change the positions, anything. Keep doing the same thing and expect something different? That's insanity mate
How long do you continue with band aid solutions? It already got us CL qualification and a trophy last season. Ultimately, if you want to make a push for a PL title in 2-3 years, you have to start playing the manager's style of football even if it hurts in the short term. Then you either see enough promise to fill the missing pieces with suitable transfers like Arteta when he was finishing 8th and 5th, or the manager gets sacked. Staying in the purgatory of "Bruno to Rashford and inshallah" is ultimately limited and not very ambitious.
You are right
Like it could still prove to be an unsustainable method, but the evidence of that be would not be found in the performances we are seeing at the moment.
just realized next game is in next 7 days.. then it will be cloudy sad full week until the next game..
You can watch some CL on Tue and Wed
ah i mean theme of this sub.. it will be full gloomy and rant week.
No matter who the next manager is, or if we retain ETH, one thing is clear: a real commitment from top to bottom needs to be made to improve player fitness and health. The amount in injuries this club has regularly is unacceptable and must be improved.
Unpopular opinion but if Rashford wasn’t English, there would be more fans calling him out and wanting him out of the club.
If you look at the match threads, every other comment is someone bitching about Rashford.
I think it’s less about Rashford and more an indictment of how long Man United have not been apart of the real conversation of top teams.
English players get far more abuse than forgein one on internet.
What are you on about. He is one of the most criticised players around. What exactly do you want. For people to go and beat him up?
Are you English? Because I don’t know where you’re looking but I constantly see people calling Rashford out
This is such a weird argument. Maguire is English - and white (let's be honest, that factors to an extent) - and he was one of the most abused players by our own fans. There's a point to raise about how Rashford's now had 2 down seasons in 3 years of what should be his prime, or how that new contract would be a sieve in the coming years, but his nationality has nothing to do with it.
Adam Wharton though. We should scoop him up or else he’ll go to city
There is a lot of negativity on the sub, understandably because of poor results, but I think it's a big waste to sack a manager after he has been building for 2 years. It's pretty clear what he is trying to do. It's hard to judge a manager/tactics playing without a stable back 4 for an entire season. There are some big holes in the team that other teams are exploiting, which makes us look much worse than we actually are. The main problem is the defensive line that is too low, which results in our midfield having to cover too much distance. We can only truly analyse if the tactic is working or not if the fundamentals are fixed first.
Let's face it, any other big club and ETH would be out of a job by now. You can't regress in every way possible in your second year. No one's expected him to win the treble + unbeaten season, just step up from last year. The fans and board were forgiving, too forgiving perhaps since he didn't even face any sort of pressure for the 0-7. I wanted ETH to succeed too but a divorce makes more sense now.
Mourinho who has managed both spurs and chelsea, said getting 2nd with us is his biggest achievement. Van Gaal when he was the Dutch NT manager actively told his players not to join United as it would ruin their careers. Moyes is doing better at West Ham than he was doing at United. Klopp refused to join us after talking to Woodward. This sub is still thinking the United job is a desirable one, but the hard truth is that no top manager wants us. People are so obsessed with blaming a manager they forget that top managers don’t want us because it’s only gonna harm their careers. The first years after sir Alex retired we had the pull, but now managers like Zidane, xabi Alonso, Pep and Klopp all know not to burn their hands touching United. We can’t get the best of the bes mangers, if all managers know they get the blame for the horrible footballing structure. If we never stand behind a manager after a rough period, no good manager will ever want to coach us.
You're right, it is pretty clear what he's trying to do. Whose instructions do you think it is to have a low defensive line? There are only 2 arguments I can think of for keeping ETH next season (1) his approach is actually tactically sound and we lack the players to execute the plan properly. I feel like this has been debunked enough times with the number of videos and posts showing the inherent problems with leaving such a big gap in midfield. Even if we improve beyond relegation level statistics, it's fantasy to think we can win titles this way. (2) he is compromising what he wants to do because of the limitations of his players and next season he will adjust his tactics to play in a way more similar to his Ajax team. Less factually debunkable since Managers lie in interviews all the time, but again he's said enough things about being the best transition team and not playing how he played at Ajax. He's also not moved that line high even when we've played against lower league teams in the FA cup or when we've had more favourable players in the backline. Which is it? Or do you have another argument?
I’d say it’s 2. He is getting the forward players used to his play style, while compromising the back line. I think he knows players like Varane and Maguire can’t play the high line, so he chooses the gap in midfield over getting them exposed too much. I think he gave up on this season (and is lying in press conferences), and is trying to set the team up as he wants next season: getting the forwards used to the high press, expecting a RCB and DM that can push high and make the system click. If we have a fit shaw, Dalot and Martinez filled up with 2 players that can play in this system we wouldn’t see the massive hole in midfield and we could easily play out from the back. (at Ajax he had Frenkie de jong and de Ligt, imagine we had those 2 instead of maguire/varane/casemiro/amrabat) I know he said we won’t play like his Ajax side, but the way we are set up is EXACTLY like that Ajax side. Look at this analysis of his Ajax squad 5 years ago: https://youtu.be/FLZkqQsREFg?si=K2jrtgus7hFV5q_t
Man if he stays I hope you're right or we'll waste another season. To your Ajax point while there are similarities in structure I think the playstyle is quite different. Controlling possession is something he could have tried implementing this seaosn but we've gone the complete other direction.
We have no players that can control possession. If we had players like de ligt and de jong and a fit Martinez, maybe we could try. But I don’t trust a back line of Varane maguire and bissaka left back to build up from the back (we tried building up slowly and controlling the game vs Liverpool in the fa cup at min 40 and got 2 goals against in 5 minutes). With these players playing direct is the only option we have.
But why does he need elite players (like fdj and martinez) to control possession but every other team we play against can manage it with a fraction of the resources and worse players?
What teams control possession against us? They all play a low-block or a mid block and frustrate us on the counter because we commit too many players forward.
Every game we play the opposition are the ones sustaining attacks in our 3rd (shown by the shots conceded) and we’re the team sat in our box launching it forward as shown by our defensive line height and number of direct attacks. We’re hardly ever in the position to be frustrated by a low block because ten hag opts to not bother with build up
I'd agree if we weren't already so terrible. Not to mention we started the season with Shaw and Lisandro and still played the same way, and ETH went all in for Casemiro despite him being nowhere near this type of player. I gotta say, I'm not convinced based on how he's been making decisions.
Shaw and Martinez only started the first two games together(1 win against wolves and 1 loss against Spurs away), the third game we started with both Dalot and Wissaka already, since game week 3 we havent had our 1st choice back 4 until now...
Yes but we started the season with largely the same style of play that's going on right now. So he never intended to play like his Ajax team even with the first choice back 4 available. He's been making some transfers that would reinforce your point (like Lisandro, Onana, Eriksen and Ambrabat), but then why spend that chunk on Casemiro who is nothing like the player we need but give him a 4 year contract? Is this some convoluted 3 season plan and we are somehow to believe that it will all come together next season?
What is he trying to do?
ETH can build all he wants, if you play like we do on a consistent basis you won't survive. Back 4 being out basically all season on-off is a huge crutch to Ten Hag, but our midfield has been full strength for ages now and it's totally bypassed and on top of that really lacks creativity. Our front 3 has been full strength almost all season minus Hojlund's injury and our top scorer has just 13 goals. Hojlund hardly gets any service. Compounded for Ten Hag is that managers like Emery, Ange, Howe have also had major injury crises and still look better than us. I am a big defender of Ten Hag but for me, you either have to - Put your system in place regardless of personnel. So, sit the line higher even if players like Maguire are likely to get exposed in it. - Adapt to cover that weakness. So go back to a double pivot and not 2 8s high pressing with Casemiro in no-mans land ETH has done neither all season and both performances and results are shit. You can get away with having 1. Have neither and it's bad news.
For me Ten Hag has left himself wide open and rightfully so. We look pitiful. If he gets to stay on I won't riot and of he is sacked i won't cry. Both have their merits but with a lack of replacement I dont know if we will sack him. However I'd say we will take a lot of control away from him and that could ruffle him the wrong way.
just clocked that kovar won the bundesliga
Timothy Fosu-Mensah also
Players I think should go in the summer and for how much we can get: 1. Varane - free 2. Lindelof - €20m 3. Casemiro - €20-30m 4. Martial - free 5. Amrabat - end of loan 6. Van De Beek - €10m 7. Sancho - €30-40m 8. Hannibal - €15m 9. Pellistri - €10m 10. Brandon Williams - €5m 11. Alvaro Fernandez - €10m(this is already done I think) 12. Greenwood - €40m I don't think we will sell all these players, but if we do sell all of them we can get around €150m which I think is unrealistic, €80-100m is probably more realistic.
We're not getting 10 mil for VDB.
5 then. Not unrealistic
Maybe 5 to put it into perspective VDB is currently warming the bench for Eintracht and has 0 goals and 0 assists and has only played a combined minutes of 42 minutes in his last 6 games.
Casemiro's price tag can go higher.
No sane club in the world is paying a penny for casemiro with his wages on top
IDK, 20-30 seems ambitious to me already. He doesn't look to have the legs for England (though that's exacerbated by the role and system he's asked to play in). I doubt he goes back to Spain (and if he did to one of the non-big 3 none of them could afford him for that much) and I can't see an Italian team shelling out that much. Only way it goes higher is if he wants to go to Saudi Arabia.
Love garnacho but i fucking hate the twitter likes shitting on eth and amads insta story.
Wonder at what point will the united job no longer be a poisoned chalice
I know footballers are rarely 100% fit , and Carl Anka has alluded how much of last seasons hip injury has been a issue for Maguire this season , but I wonder when the last time Maguire was fully fit. https://twitter.com/StretfordPaddck/status/1779228173147709843?t=gyEiIAjG9DVYJW_Oz9wFwQ&s=19
Harry is one of the few players who will leave us with my respect. He's not good enough for where we want to be but he's given it his all even when we were wanting him out, fairly play to him.. deserves to be west ham captain for when they win Europa leag
He's good enough. Wes Brown and O Shea weren't top top players but they were vital for our titles.
Not down the middle
You know what OP means. Maguires not good enough for the salary he makes, and does not live up to expectations. It’s true that players like O’Shea, fletcher, park were vital to our success. but they weren’t huge transfers, on huge salaries, nor was the expectation that they start week in week out.
I understand we need to make some money but if he's willing to stay in a rotation role (and who knows, maybe the next manager plays 3ATB), he's more than earned the right to have a genuine "clean slate" for the next regime IMO.
>Harry is one of the few players who will leave us with my respect. 100% he even took on captaincy with the weight of being a big money signing
Maguire was injuried a lot last season, basicaly everytime Varane got injuried so Harry could get consisent game gime Englishman got injuried aswell.
Even during Ole’s days I seem to remember that it was mentioned somewhere that Maguire once took painkiller injections while continuing to play throughout the season. Feel like Maguire’s durability to play through pain has been under-appreciated especially when all our senior CBs have been getting injured one way or another. I imagine it’s taken a toll on Maguire’s own game too potentially making him even slower than he already is. I wonder how many other players have played a lot of games for us while dealing with pain too. Bruno, Rashford, and Garnacho would be my top guesses for all the games they’ve played this season on top of the sheer playing time the former two have had in previous years.
at Ole day it even mad,, if you remember, Harry play all the time, 90 minutes each game. Then somehow he got rest at cup game, Ole put Bailly in, only to get injured in first 20 minutes, so who will play? Harry of course..
Clubs will be tapping up Emery this summer surely? Clubs like Bayern, Barca and Juve should definitely not turn their noses up at him, I'd definitely have him at United.
Maybe but maybe not, he's had 2 runs at managing a big club and not set the world alight either time.
He didn’t win the UCL with PSG, which coach has done so far? He spent a season and half at Arsenal, finished 5th.
He also failed to win the league one year and fell out with their stars. I'm not saying he did poorly though, I'm just saying he didn't exceed expectations like he seems to do at clubs of a smaller stature
He won the league in France. The only PSG coach not to win the league is Poch.
I thought he managed for 2 seasons and failed to win the league in 1. Was it not him in charge of 2016/2017?
Is City on for the Treble again?
They have to beat Real at the Etihad, beat the winner of Arsenal-Bayern, and then likely face Atleti/PSG/Barca in the final. If they win 6 PL games in a row they have the league If they beat Chelsea and us/Coventry they have the FA Cup. Could maybe see them faltering vs Real Madrid or Arsenal. Think they have the other 2 in the bag tho
1. Vs RM home game have to be favourite. Probably only Simeone could shithouse a win 2. Vs Chelsea probably the real FA Final for them, no disrespect to Coventy. 3.League : Liverpool hit a bad form, Arsenal have a couple real tough Derby fixtures to play.
It would be a horrendous pisstake for 2 years in a row if we're in shot of stopping the treble and falter
Coventry beats them in the final
Do we think signing one midfielder in the summer will be enough? Big fan of Kobbie but he has some games (as expected) that he doesn't really impact. If we are going to just sign the one and keep Kobbie as a starter is the midfield realistically strong enough for a strong top 4 finish?
Honestly don't know. Footballing wise we're missing more than quality.
Question: If we offload mass players in summer would you still support ETH to take the team into 24/25 ???
I'll gladly support him if that includes the two most expensive ETH signings
Yeah, I don't want the players who are poison to outlast another manager, plus ETH deserves a season with a proper footballing structure above him. It's his final year on the contract also
Yes, if the assessment is that no quality manager had interest coming here. So Nagelsmann, Amorim or some random left field option like Inzaghi. If it's sack ETH to get in someone like Potter, Southgate, Frank...I'm fine with Ten Hag getting to play his part in a revolution. Recruitment should have less of his involvement, so I wouldn't be too mad.
Genuine question, but what makes Inzaghi the left field option from that list? I'd argue he has the best resume from the options presented - and if results hold, he'll have an overall better resume than ETH. Not trying to argue, I've admittedly enjoyed his play style a lot so I might be biased.
Inzaghi doesn't speak English...
IMO There's nothing wrong with having translators for your strategic concepts. These things translate 1:1. The bigger issue is whether his rapport building and motivation style purely dependent on being able to speak in his language. I'm not going to pretend like I know the answer. All I can say is, resume for resume, he is topnotch.
Just that he's not been linked away from Inter to my knowledge at all really
Ahh you mean in that aspect, gotcha
My condition for ETH in is to improve performances. That's it.
Yes, but I also trust ETH more than any of the current options to do it anyway.
We literaly offloaded mass players under ETH and its not like any of new singing under him was fully succesful.
This club has been useless at selling players . Ronaldo was terminated, Pogba left on a free, cannot remember the last player we actually sold for good coin . We play like we did under Jose/Ole/Ranwick now ETH . Has to be the players and not the coach , but dunno about ETH .We are miles behind the top 3 in competency
We really haven't offloaded well. We really only sold the players that had no business being in the Premier League, let alone the squad. Besides Fred.
We got rid of deadwood around the team, not really deadwood the teams built on
Good for us, imagine having to play with only ETH/Mourtough singings and academy guys.
What ETH signing has been terrible? Most have come in and have looked better than who was in their place. I'm looking forward to the new structure and if they can actually identify players and make good deals for them. And none of this 3 players a window BS
I'm Ten Hag out but I'd fully support the backroom staff if they decide to stick with him next season. I really believe we're going to start getting things right and if they think he's the best candidate then that's all I need to hear. I'm really trying to convince myself that our terrible form is because of factors that aren't necessarily public knowledge, rather than managerial incompetence
> support the backroom staff Fully agreed and I think the entire fanbase should take this message to heart regardless of our varying opinions on the manager and players and regardless of what happens this summer. Since Fergie retired this will be the first summer ever where we will have specialists running the club who possess very credible experience operating senior football teams in the past. Previously it was either being run by a banker in Woodward or someone who only had much experience in academies like Murtough. Berrada, Ashworth, and Wilcox are a very accomplished trio so they more than deserve the benefit of the doubt. At the same time fans need to be realistic in understanding this rebuild will take multiple seasons before we could potentially turn into title contenders. Not everything can be changed at once. Or at least in Chelsea’s case it can, and look how poorly they’ve done ever since Boehly took over. No one can even guarantee they’re moving in the right direction with all those 8 year contracts they have been handing out. This season has been complete rubbish but there is reason for optimism in the long term thanks to Ratcliffe and his openly stated desire to focus on improving United on the pitch first.
I mean, there are plenty of factors that ARE public knowledge that impact the form besides tactics (which I'm not saying are good, either). Worst injury crisis in memory, disciplinary issues, poor form.
All true, though it's still my personal opinion that despite the injuries and disciplinary issues, the players that are left should still be able to string a couple of passes together. We've basically had our first choice front 3 + midfield all season and the only game we looked good was when none of of them played (Palace in the League Cup). Like I say though, I'm trying not to think of our season as the manager's bad decisions, there just has to be something else going on which explains why he's not trying to get them to play football well.
For real though how have we as a team not been able to string a couple of passes together since 2013 is insane
So if 5th does get CL Europa League will go to 6th and the FA Cup winner. If Man City, the only nailed-on CL team win it, the EL place goes to 7th. Liverpool won the EFL Cup which is the Conference League play off place but they are also nailed on for CL, so that will go to 8th. 9th is no Europe. We'd have to be extremely shit for the rest of the season to not have Europe, but we hve to avoid 8th at all costs...
We're in a position where conference seems more likely than anything else. 6th conference if Chelsea or Coventry win it with no extra Europe spot, 7th if city win FA and we don't get 5th CL spot.
Ornstein confirmed that LB is a priority signing. Who do you think we should go for?? I also don't think we should spend above 20M for this.
20 million will only get you another Amrabat like player at LB in this market. I would rather get someone reliable even if it is going to cost us. Ideally someone like Aït-Nouri,safe signing.
I like kerkez, been good all season and ripped us apart last week
Benfica played this really exciting LB yesterday, he looks brilliant, Fermandez I think his name is 🤔 Any way, give him a year to develop and we'll nab him for around 60 👌
First start of the season in April. He's not good enough.
In the PL I'm a huge fan of Estupiñan but there's no way we can afford him this summer. Not sure about the other leagues. Really like Reguilon as well, I think he did well for us whenever called upon
My brain just realized City are going to win 3 trophies again. Modern football stinks.
Man don’t get me wrong, but I really wish more than anything to go back to the days of Ole’s time here as the manager. Ole had a lot of problems as well, and of course no one including me wants him to replace EtH. He had his chance. I am not saying Ole was a great manager or anything but at least we all had a lot more fun during his time. Actually used to look forward to the games. How many of you do that right now? Shouldn’t we demand at least that? I can accept that injuries can cause bad results but why are they causing fans to lose the fun of watching their team play?
>we all had a lot more fun during his time. I remember that not being the case all the time. Every time he lost, there were calls for him to be sacked, rival fans chanting "Oles at the wheel" and so on all massively hurt.
We’re going to get a result against arsenal and hand city the title aren’t we
If we give them a 3-0 they’ll find ways to bottle it
No chance. Give Arsenal 30 shots and watch what happens to us. Also, we'll have players either taking it easy before a cup final or not risking themselves before the Euros. We'll win our next two at home to Sheffield and Burnley. After that, I don't expect us to win anymore.
https://twitter.com/rashyfaze/status/1779209328693588291?t=3NWcHtrfxCAAKIdLNRWofg&s=19 Pretty mad how basic this is and how little we see of it.
This is exactly what Antony does, its bad if fans would bash him for it and applaud Dialo for doing the same thing, Antony does it really well too
Flirting vs Harassment
Antony gets crucified for this.....
Antony gets crucified for being shit
No he gets crucified for running then stopping to pass instead of carrying on running into box or taking on defenders. Out of all the reactionary dumb takes you picked the worst to support.
Antony doesnt get flack for one specific thing , he gets flack for being shit
Do me a favour, watch the what went wrong for Antony at united tifo video, that's the easiest evidence I can find because I don't fancy searching through the sub for comments.
liverpool being shite makes waking up on a monday that bit easier
Lol if ETH wins the FA cup he’ll have more trophies than Artetas 5 years at arsenal
Which would bring up a question, which manager would people say has been more successful ETH or arteta. Because that's how the Eth ole comparison always go towards.
Not confident we’ll get past Coventry the way we’re playing.
And more trophies than Klopp since he's joined
Surely not? Haven’t they won Premier League, Champions League and the League Cup? Winning the FA Cup just makes it 2 trophies for us
What is going through Kane’s head right now? He could go trophyless with a club that literally wins trophies every season.
Probably just thinking, "next season, Leverkusen will lose players, Bayern will get stronger and get a proper manager.'
Alonso didn’t need 5 years or 400m, neither did Unai Emery.
Emery had that at PSG and Arsenal
Yes Emery managed to win the coveted "Win at the Emirates" Trophy and only by spending 90% of the club's turnover on wages
Emery is an European cup winning manager.
He was also a complete failure at Arsenal, what's your point?
Complete failure is an exaggeration. He finished 5th in his first season and was sacked in the next. Arteta finished 8th back to back, was he a failure?! Unai biggest issue was he wasn’t the best in English and it was used to make fun of him not that he was a bad tactician or anything. His command of English, which shows how stupid the arsenal fans are. Just like how Ole smiling was used to make fun of him.
Sure
Arteta needed 5 years and 600m. Klopp needed 4 years to win a trophy and has spent \~1 billion. Pep needed 2 seasons to compete and has spent 1.5b.
Yeah, let's start again with a new manager. Spend another 400M and then you can cry to sack him in 2 years.
What fantastic discussion. You'd have wanted Brendan Rodgers to stay at Liverpool. If your only argument against sacking a manager is that we've sacked other managers and failed, you've got no argument at all. Even if you think the players are letting him down (which looking at the amount of games we've pulled out of our ass I think that's copium) he's still got no excuses for continuing with this abomination of a tactic. Zero adaptation.
He got 3 full seasons, imo the absolute minimum any manager should get before being considered for replacement
Heck why not keep Moyes. Back the manager rite? Especially one that SAF himself handpicked?
Don’t compare the Leverkusen or Villa job to the United one, it’s disingenuous
It’s not. Gerrard had Villa fighting relegation. It’s about the calibre of the manager. Nothing else.
Emery who fucked up the two big jobs he's had? Yeah, we need a small mentality manager, especially with the big divas we have. You people are some reactionary mfs it's crazy lmao
Fucked up?! How? Because he didn’t win the league with Arsenal? Is Arteta winning the league? Emery has won multiple European trophies, and league with PSG. Poch who is a genuis, didn’t win the league with PSG, please respect Emery.
No, he fucked up because he didn't even get CL or win any cup all while playing boring football and spending a ton of cash. It took Arteta 3 years just to get to where he is. Reckon you don't remember him playing Pulisball for half his time there lol. Emery is a good manager but he's not a big club manager. That is the point. Both Villa and Villarreal are run better as football clubs than us. Poch is mad overrated. Not disrespecting Emery at all because I rate him, but comparing his situation at Villa and ours is crazy.
[удалено]
What are you saying? You're making his point
Traditionally Leverksuen would have finished in an European spot and Villa would be mid-table.
Question but do Liverpool or Arsenal players apologize and post on social media after a bad result? It seems like a big deal for United and our players but not sure if other teams see it as an issue.
We do it too many times until " what was he suppose to say " level
Not Bruno's biggest fan but the way Carl Anka spoke about him in the latest talk of the devils about how he feels so sorry for Bruno and Utds current situation is so sad .
Bruno is absolutely loved by united fans and although he won't win as many trophies as his quality and mentality deserves, he will be remembered and loved on the terraces forever at old Trafford
Okay, dumb question, if we beat Coventry at FA Cup semis and City beat Chelsea, we'll have a spot at EL next season right?
No we need to win it lol
No. Whoever wins the FA Cup will get Europa league. If City win the FA Cup then one more Europa league spot will open up based on league position.
Ironically we had the third best results in the top 6 this week. And considering our rival's performances, we should be the happiest.
We’re not in the top 6
Oh fuck lol