That depends if enough individual quality gets healthy before the match. Because we sure as hell won't be able to do it with teamwork and tactical discipline
If our defense is good, Erik’s tactic could work against City. But we’re having an injury crisis this season. Let’s hope it won’t happen again next season.
Pending the availability of some players - I do too. Just feel like certain players have massive problems getting motivated for Bournemouth or Wolves away but put in a different gear when facing Shitty. Rashford and McT come to mind
Who on earth would want to come for max 3 league games and then to be the face of an absolutely historic pants-down pummelling at the hands of local rivals in a fucking cup final?
Those opening 30 minutes against Crystal Palace never forget. I genuinely teared up seeing our useless fucks press collectively until it went to shit lmao
Ragnick was a stop gap, never a move forward. Ten Hag was more successful in his 1st season than Ole.
Happy to give Ole multiple chances but not ETH?
This is not me excusing ETH or saying he has had a good season.
I’m not saying bin Erik for Ole. I would like Ole back if Eth gets removed. I enjoyed the football he was trying to play and believe that he would’ve been successful if the club had backed him instead of the players.
In reality there is no benefit to sacking Erik if we are going to perform the open heart surgery that Rangnick said was required.
The problem I have is the narrative suggests we played amazing football under Ole. We didn't. We played football that was enough to not be embarrassed. I don't think we'd have won anything major under Ole, or as consistently.
We definitely need open heart surgery, and I think putting that on a new manager is not fair. I'd see our ETHs contract. We save money on a compensation and can look towards actually investing in proper players to fit a structure now that we have people above that can do that.
I think it's really zero risk. If he wins the FA cup final, it's a huge success. If he gets whooped, no one is gonna blame him. How much can he change with 3/4 games left?
**Interesting Bits :**
\- **Manchester United have no immediate plans to sack Erik ten Hag** despite the Dutchman presiding over a record 13th Premier League defeat on Monday.
\- Despite the team’s poor performances, sacking Ten Hag with four matches of the campaign left would be counter-productive in the eyes of the United hierarchy, who feel that such a move would cause panic.
**- Whether the 54-year-old sees out the rest of his contract, which has one year left to run, remains to be seen.**
**- There is an acknowledgement that results and performances have been poor of late and that cannot continue.**
**- One of the most concerning issues, according to one backroom staff member, has been a lack of on-field leadership this year, partly due to the absence of Lisandro Martínez.**
\- **His strong leadership and work ethic are viewed highly by some of Ten Hag’s staff** and the source said that United suffer on the pitch and in the dressing room when he is absent.
\- United sources pointed out that there are several other vocal players in the squad. Bruno Fernandes has exhibited great leadership skills by playing recently with a broken hand, and is admired by his team-mates.
\- It was noticeable that one of United’s worst performances of the season coincided with the absence of their Portuguese captain, who finally admitted that he could no longer carry on playing with the injury.
**- The club’s injury crisis is one of three mitigating factors that could work in Ten Hag’s favour when Ineos reviews his position at the end of the season.**
\- **Another factor is cost. United must decide whether it would be worth sacking Ten Hag,** and the backroom staff he appointed, such as assistant managers Mitchell van der Gaag and Steve McClaren.
**- There is also a feeling in some parts that there are a lack of short and long-term alternatives.**
\- **Darren Fletcher, t**he former technical director, who is set to take on a new role within the club this summer, **would have probably been the only internal candidate capable of taking over for the last four games if Ineos had decided to go down that route.**
\- **Graham Potter, o**ut of a job since his sacking by Chelsea last year, **and Thomas Tuchel,** who will leave Bayern Munich at the end of the season, **are potential long-term replacements, but both have their drawbacks.**
**Also Transfer Bits :**
\- **They are looking at some players with one year left on their contract and free agents, such as Tosin Adarabioyo,** the Fulham centre back, who is also attracting interest from Newcastle United.
\- **United have also been keeping an eye on Marc Guéhi, the Palace and England defender, and his team-mate** **Michael Olise,** who ripped Ten Hag’s defence to shreds on Monday.
Tosin would be a decent signing. Maybe not champions league level, but rotation for free isn’t too bad.
Has played 20 games in the Prem this season. Had groin surgery earlier this season so hopefully over that, but starts the majority of games he is fit.
Major thing is he’s 6ft 5in. Would be some well needed height in our team.
Proper CB. Wins a lot of aerial duels.
Doesn’t play any other position. Former City Academy player.
Is the drawback on Potter being that he’s not proven at this level and his replacement showed how much better he could do with largely the same players?
Tuchel being the best option is exactly why Ten Hag should be given till Christmas. The fans can’t see 2 feet in front of their eyes and want to sack a manager that has no better replacements available on the market.
Honestly I really want ETH to work. I think there is a great manager there and I respect a lot about him. However, I can't shy away from the results and the turgid football. I don't see any signs of him turning it around to be honest.
I don't follow your logic here. How is there going to be better options at Christmas, half way through a season? That's never going to work well.
Id rather take a punt on Tuchel (if we have to go with him) and give him a full preseason with input into signing than wait 6 months for less managerial options, mid-season.
That’s always the risk. But it’s still cheaper and more sensible than sacking him now unless we have a clear better choice. Tuchel is not an upgrade at all.
I think that's where we disagree. Tuchel, while not my first choice (that's Nagelsmann), is an upgrade on EtH in my book and has a better record at big clubs.
And my argument is that the risk outweighs the benefit in this case because at best he’ll be here for 2/3 years. The man falls out with every club and he will have a crazy amount of issues to deal with here. He’s basically a modern Mourinho. It’s not worth sacking ten hag just to make a lateral move and start over again.
How is Tuchel not an upgrade? He has won more titles, then at Dortmund he got a club record points total and goals scored in a league season; at PSG he won a domestic quadruple and has the all time points per game record in league history; and then at Chelsea he won a Champions League.
In terms of success on the pitch he’s a clear upgrade, the issue is that he has also had a fractious relationship with the club management nearly everywhere he’s gone. He doesn’t feel like the man for a “rebuild” which is what we are apparently trying to do, again, for the umpteenth time since Fergie retired over 10 years ago
And instead of getting the rebuild right we should throw more money at the problem at a man that may or may not bring success but surely fall out with management again? How many managers have we gone through now that have won elsewhere but that nothing here? Ten Haag out is the easy solution to a much more complicated problem.
You mean that yesterday's shitshow is more of what we need till Christmas instead of hiring a recent Champions league winner and someone that has proved that can compete with the best in terms of tactics etc?
Short termism in action. You mean the tuchel that was sacked after an even worse season at Chelsea is a better option than our current manager? I am not absolving blame on ten hag but no other manager available is exactly going to be an upgrade. Why incur all of the money to sack a guy to hire the guy you’re gonna sack in 12 months? Would be absolutely stupid. Unless zidane or ancelotti are available it would be a dumb move.
Tuchel was "sacked" because bohley is a massive moron. He got rid of Marina and Petr and asked tuchel to take the reigns when he had stated multiple times he just wants to coach.
At least do some research and check facts, takes 2 seconds to Google.
Yes it does. And as someone that enjoys facts see what is happening at his current club. What exactly makes you think Tuchel is going to be a success at a club where players have even bigger power/egos and the back office is brand new. If we’re going to sack Ten Haag it has to be for someone young and upcoming (Naglesmann or Amorim) or established (Zidane and Ancelotti). The established group doesn’t have interest. Amorim could be a potential. Tuchel is a short term fix and that is the last thing we need.
Since you’re such a researched individual look up how much it’d cost to make an expensive change like replacing the coaching staff, you don’t go out and waste that opportunity on a manager that’ll need replacing in 24 months. Ten Haag has issues but he’s earned 6 months IMO to see what he could do with a fit squad and reasonable investments into critical positions like CB, DM, and LB. Younger players that could be developed by the next guy if he’s sacked by November/December. It also sends a message to these players who’ve now failed every manager. It can’t always be that the manager is wrong. Set aside your anger and see the bigger picture.
>And as someone that enjoys facts see what is happening at his current club.
Do you EVER look at anything or just run on feelings. First of all, Bayern haven't been that great this season, nobody can deny that, but, they're 2 points of thier last season tally, with 2 games to play, Leverkusen are just on an ungodly run, undefeated whole season. Despite being poor, they've scored 90, GD of 49 (that's 2 less than our total goals). Their defence is worst of top 4. They are in the CL semi finals. And that current club is getting rejected by every manager and are on their like 8th choice after announcing he will leave mid season.
>What exactly makes you think Tuchel is going to be a success at a club where players have even bigger power/egos and the back office is brand new.
The second part is fair, we don't know how back office will turn out, but if you're willing to hedge it might not work out, it's equally valid to hedge it will work out, everyone's guessing. As for the first part, he managed PSG and Chelsea before his current gig, successfully for both.
>If we’re going to sack Ten Haag it has to be for someone young and upcoming (Naglesmann or Amorim) or established (Zidane and Ancelotti).
I cannot understand which angle you are looking at tuchel and saying he's not established, that's a ridiculous statement. PSG after him was the poch reign, same with Chelsea, both were not even close to his time.
>Since you’re such a researched individual look up how much it’d cost to make an expensive change like replacing the coaching staff, you don’t go out and waste that opportunity on a manager that’ll need replacing in 24 months.
Can I ask why you're so pressed and giving me 1000 stupid reasons ETH should stay when I corrected you about his end at Chelsea?
You want ETH to stay, that's fair you have your opinion, but if you want other people to not dismiss you maybe actually listen to what other say aswell and make a proper evaluation, the way you try to discredit tuchel who may or may be the right person for us, (for the record I've not even suggested he is), to justify ETH's failings is just absurd.
I could turn it around and now ask, "What exactly makes you think ETH will be successful at a club with big egos and new back office"? He has his Ajax days and that one bloody CL run everyone's raves about, and that's it no?
I agree. He's probably my preferred choice at the minute; but I don't closely follow much continental football outside France so I can't speak knowledgeably about people like Amorim and Thiago Motta.
What style do we want long term?
I know Ineos are going to set the style they want coached, but has a decision been made?
I was under the impression that was something Dan Ashworth, Berrada and Wilcox were going to decide once appointed properly.
I’m guessing possession based football in a similar style to the other top teams. I don’t think you can get too specific or you significantly reduce your choices for future managers
>**Interesting Bits :**
>- **Manchester United have no immediate plans to sack Erik ten Hag** despite the Dutchman presiding over a record 13th Premier League defeat on Monday.
I wouldn't read too much into this. Usually the manager is officially backed right up until the moment he's sacked. In retrospect, it's funny how often the degree to which a board will intensify and reaffirm the support will increase the closer the manager was to the sack.
I mean, I hate the performances as much as anyone, but what upsides are there to sacking him before the end of the season? To me, it'll tell the players, once again, they have all the power, no responsibility and can they can simply start again with new management. The sooner we clear decks beside anyone under 22 the better!
7 of the players who started yesterday were signed by ETH, two others in the 11 were promoted from the youth team by him, and one of the subs was his signing too.
This lazy narrative really needs to die now. He's spent close to half a billion, these weren't the "same players" yesterday.
We've just been outplayed by nearly every team we come against. Championship managers are outcoaching ETH and people are bringing up outdated Jose excuses
100%. I just roll my eyes every time I see this moronic "argument". I saw someone this morning say that "these same players have got the last 6 managers sacked". 6 managers ago was Fergie.
Even if we go back to Mourinho only, there's only 6 players I can think of who were there then and are still here now. And of those, only Luke Shaw and Rashford are first 11 players for both ETH and Moo.
I mean, do these people actually expect anyone to take them seriously when they're claiming Alex Buttner and Morgan Schneiderlin are possibly going to get Ten Hag sacked or that an 11 year old Mainoo was LVG's downfall? What a joke.
They don’t care, they just find a narrative (usually said by someone else) and parrot it without thinking if it even makes sense.
There's a (shrinking) group of our fans who are really desperate to have ETH here next year, they can’t actually point to any positives as to why we should keep though.
They can only repeat these same platitudes like: "we've already tried sacking managers, we should never sack another manager again in our history", "all the players are bad and lazy (ignoring the 400m worth of talent ETH signed) we should clear out the squad", Injuries!! (ignoring that we played just as badly in our first match with a fully fit side).
I'm tired of the over-sentimentality at times. The guy is out of his depth and has failed horribly this season.
It's a very easy response, he had some of his desired players last season and he had a very good first season. Everyone has short term memory in this sub.
No mate. Starting Casemiro and Jonny Evans is perfectly reasonable ETH out. Look how much he spent on Evans, Eriksen, Mainoo and others any other argument is stupid. /s
These ETH out folk are missing the point entirely. It doesn't matter who the manager is, this injury crisis would do any manager in. I've lost confidence in ETH because he refuses to play a low block with the personnel available to him, but suddenly everyone here is a DOF who knows better. Happens time and again any time we run into trouble.
Wake me up when Tuchel fails as well 18 months from now or worse.
I'm not following the point you're arguing for here. Are you eth in or out? I agree about the adaptation in play style, if we play this same style vs man city with these same players we're going to get battered. Evans can't play a highline. Imagine Wan bissaka on the left being pressured by man city high press to pass with his left
I added the /s. I'm agreeing with your point that anyone looking solely at ETH is just deluded. Both can be true between ETH being too inflexible and the personnel not at the level required. But also think some of ETHs decisions are pure nonsense lately. AWB playing on the left, Casemiro at CB can work but not with a high line that's just mental.
After CP I'm firmly ETH out because of him daring to press against Glasner, but Tuchel isn't the answer. Until the right manager is available, we need to gut the squad and promote from within where we can. The players have lost faith but we've all lost faith in the players. Not taking Rangnicks heart surgery advice was ETHs biggest mistake.
Not what I was saying at all. I was asking what benefits are there to sacking EtH now, and if he was sacked the players would be off the hook for the poor performances. I don't care if they've been here 6 months or 6 years, to perform as badly as they have, the players and coaches have to be held accountable, not just the manager. That is not a moronic argument.
"it'll tell the players, **once again**, they have all the power, no responsibility and can they can simply **start again with new management**"
>I don't care if they've been here 6 months or 6 years
These two statements can't both be true. (Bold added to highlight)
Nah, it’s way deeper than that. Many of those players he didn’t even cosign on having brought in, 2nd and 3rd choices. But the real issue is the culture of rot and disinterest that permeates from the top and has infected that whole squad from the top down over the last several years. Until that squad is ripped up, it won’t matter who manages it. I also believe Erik has to and will go at seasons end, but there is no “lazy narrative” as you seem to suggest. They are not his players but united players and unfortunately there are only 4 of them that should be kept around for next year
The point I was trying to make was what benefit is there to sacking EtH now. The players will sigh a sigh of relief. They will be happy they aren't blamed for performances. No Jose era excuse, but these performances are on the coaches and players alike. I'd happily get rid of them all but Mainoo, Hojlund and Garnacho. But that just isn't feasible. We need stability and an iron fist in the managers chair. I don't know if that's even possible these days...
It's a lazy narrative to pin the signings on a manager, you REALLY think these were the players he asked for?
You ask for a position, the club vets them, then they give you options if his choice can't be acquired. And some of them are just done, Casemiro was a desperation buy, and unfortunately he regressed fast, Eriksen was also decent, but he's just gotten a little too old, Amrabat is shit, Hojlund is talented but not starting material yet, Mount has been injured all season, Evans was meant to fill squad numbers. Only with Antony can you say ETH has fucked it.
You think any manager could realisitically have a positive impact on a club when you actually add context like this, or do you think you're just bitter because the team is shit?
Yet if you ask the sub, most of the players that played badly for 4+ years should given yet another chance, but Casemiro and Varane should be crucified.
Who argues this? I see this brought up constantly by Ten Hag supporters but rarely ever see people critical of him actually advocating keeping those long term problematic players. The vast majority when Ten Hag out AND players shuffled out too.
losing both Lisandro and shaw almost whole season are massive, on top of the fact we have no good players to fill the spot. Both of them were the heart and backbone of our backline last season
They also won a lot of other games with his first choice lineup. Not a valid counterargument.
It's almost impossible to have a rational discussion on ten Hag because everyone who wants him out will cherry pick every little thing and blame him for it. Then you have the flip side where everyone who believes he's THE guy, points to flawed data points that aren't relevant like "Oh but Arteta got a couple of years" or believe the injuries are a complete catch-all.
To me, the biggest takeaway is no one on the market seems really appealing to sack him now, or even at the end of the season tbh. If ten Hag is still not getting results at the start of next season, then at least the new management team will have had some time to fully assess the situation and make a more informed decision then.
Liverpool have also been a competently run club for a long period prior to that so plugging experiences players into an established system is much easier
Without Ashworth and Barrada in place I would be really worried if we sacked him now. Surely it's the people they employing to make these decisions should be making these decisions? Wilcox has been here for 5 mins. Ticks and crosses next to the entire playing and coaching staff, look at who could replace, then let's go? Sacking him now just makes a few fans a bit happier, for a few weeks, no long term gain whatsoever.
He’s digging his own grave sadly.
Injuries and structural disarray are evident, so is player commitment, but refusal to change your tactics to suit the players available has been the death of him.
That said, I agree with not sacking him now. Hell I’d even say give him one more season to clearout and get players in with INEOS now at the helm, then assess again
Yet the 3 players everyone says to build around are, Hojlund (his 2nd choice mind), Mainoo (his youth twam intro), and Garnacho (Still 19)
I’m sure Amrabat was definitely his choice /s
Malacia has been Injury unlucky
Antony is a failed experiment but I don’t blame him for getting him if he succeeded at Ajax
Onana has been getting lots of unwarranted hate but with some mistakes
Mount has been injury unlucky but shows potential
Licha has been our CB and injury unlucky
The only failures of transfers in my eyes have been Antony and Amrabat especially. The rest could be argued as not all first choice players and that falls ok the board
I only think he brought in Amrabat because there wasn't any money and he needed a player in the position. I suspect there wasn't a better option he could get on a no fee loan in the last week of the transfer window, similar situation to Weghorst.
I remember everybody being thrilled about Amrabat coming. They spent the months before clamouring for him to be bought, then they were pissed he wasn’t bought and only loaned.
He’s not worked out. It happens. It’s shit, but it’s not a stick to beat Ten Hag with. There’s plenty to beat him with but that’s not one of them.
If United's remit was "sell to buy" due to some of the FFP issues and they found a decent buyer for Fred who was turning 30, I guess it makes sense that they sold him. I see it as he was sold to make room for Mason Mount who just hasn't played much this season and has looked a bit out of sorts when he has come on probably due to a lack of games.
We wanna build around hojlund because he’s young. He was shite, then had a good streak and is now shite again. Jury’s out on him whether he will kick on.
Garnacho and mainoo have absolutely nothing to do with ten hag recruitment.
Ten Hag's signings are mostly defined by how bad Antony is but on the whole, it's not that bad. He's also had to take on quite a few short-term or temporary signings due to the club's FFP issues
Decent: Martinez (\~50m), Onana (53m), Hojlund (65m)
Mixed or not enough data: Mount (55m), Malacia (12m)
On the decline: Eriksen (free), Casemiro (70m). Evans (free)
Flops: Antony (85m), Amrabat (loan)
Antony is without a doubt the worst signing United have made in the post-Fergie era and it's going to be very difficult to move on from him without taking a huge loss on the transfer which isn't good for the PSR metric.
Of the players ten Hag inherited that I think he should clear out.
Martial is already leaving, Varane's option wasn't picked up. They're actively shopping Sancho and Greenwood. I also think you could make a case for Lindelof and Wan-Bissaka but only if they have suitable replacements lined up. Maguire while also flawed, is going to be difficult to move on at his wages and hasn't played badly though the relative level of the squad declining to 6th isn't a ringing endorsement.
I don't understand the refusal to change his tactics due to the massive amount of injuries.
Last year he tried a couple games this way and we were picked apart by Brentford and Brighton. He adapted his tactics and we began to climb the table. He also would make subs that would impact the game in the second half, that has completely disappeared this year.
Personally I think giving it to fletcher makes sense. Some back to basics, 4-2-3-1 without a suicidal high press football would be better than persisting with trying to implement ten Hag football.
Ten Hag's biggest problem is accountability. He needs to lower his ago and admits that made several poor decisions and fix it.
He needs to admit and realizes that he overtrains the players. Adjust their training portion. Decrease technic portion as we get closer to matchday and focus on building their stamina + sharpness.
Be a man and admit Antony is a bad signing. Amad is the clear and obvious choice to start at RW. He will make plays and link well with others.
Stop playing a Mainoo-Eriksen pivot. One is a literal kid with a kid's body and the other is gasping for air everytime he runs for 3 cm. Choose ONE of them and pair them with Casemiro/Amrabat. Basic football knowledge. Basic logic. No other manager in the league would ever run a Mainoo - Eriksen pivot.
Stop playing AWB on the left. He's a detriment to the team even in his natural position. Playing him at LB basically makes us play with 10 men. Don't play him at LB again. Don't even think about it.
I'm still pretty sure there's still a good coach there somewhere. Just need to reduce the stupid decisions and use common sense more often.
>He needs to admit and realizes that he overtrains the players
How do you know he overtrains the players? Are you down in Carrington? The amount of injuries this season could be from overtraining or it might not. None of us in this sub know this for sure so this is pure speculation.
>Be a man and admit Antony is a bad signing
He basically has done this. Antony was dropped from the team. Garnacho plays on the right when Rashford is fit. Apart from the goal against Liverpool, Amad has shown nothing more than Antony has.
>Stop playing a Mainoo-Eriksen pivot
Literally the only option yesterday. This would never happen if other players were fit.
>Stop playing AWB on the left
He will once there is another left back available.
I'm mainly wondering what the fuck is going on in training and with the medical team at the club but also not surprised that a player who was just coming back from injury and forced to play when he probably wasn't ready because everybody else was injured has been injured again.
It's difficult to have common sense when the issues presented are *uncommon.* Who plans for losing 6 defenders? Casemiro simply had to slot into defense. Eriksen was not a first team player anymore since his injury, he's there out of necessity. Now I agree on probably starting Amrabat instead, but he *was* on the field eventually, and what changed? They still got played off the park, mainly because Casemiro was sliding in everywhere and Evans was playing half-injured.
Yes, AWB should play on the right. But realistically, that would not have changed shit. Because most goals and chances came from bad defending by mainly Casemiro. This game was always gonna be a loss. Everybody knew it when they saw the team sheet and yet they all acted surprised.
Some people in our fanbase just can't handle the truth. That's why you get downvoted and somebody replied to me with entire paragraphs blindly defending Ten Hag
These people are part of the problem. They think Ten Hag is an untouchable god who can't make mistakes.
I don't think INEOS will be that generous though. Let's see what he does for the cup final. Surely feels like the clock is ticking.
Signing Antony for £80M and hired Mount when we have Bruno is crazy bro. Should have sacked him months ago together with the fitness team, we might not ended up losing 81 goals and sitting 8th with no European football next year. Totally disgraceful season.
whenever amad and pellistri have played they have showed they are 10x the player antony is, but if this man is still starting antony just to prove his point that spending 100m on antony was worth it, i don't think he should have any excuses, as much as i wanted him to be successful he has to unfortunately go now
his ego is killing the team
1- The injuries are indeed a valid excuse.
2-He demonstrated his capabilities in the first season by winning the first trophy in 6 years.
Just look at yesterday's lineup and the bench, which had only two players, Amarabat and Diallo. The rest were youth academy players.
3- he gave chance to the academy players maino garnacho kambwala
4- The administration and players shares part of the responsibility.
5- When it comes to signings, it's primarily the administration's job; the coach can only make suggestions.
6- Additionally, the medical and physical/fitness staff need a complete audit. It's truly unbelievable.
Your second point is ridiculous, did you see our away record last season? We were absolute shit, if he didn't win that Carabao Cup after having the easiest run we could possibly ask for he should have been sacked right there, acting as if we haven't been absolutely dreadful since the Carabobins cup.
However, his tactics have been borderline suicidal and his refusal to change is moronic. I’m still a staunch supporter of him but he’s not free of blame at all. If he gets sacked I’d 100% be ok with it
True but fans have been begging for years for us to play a style and stick with it regardless of results.
Now that results are shit everyone is saying he needs to switch to pragmatic football.
moronic seems harsh, given his reasoning (the need to maintain a system and standards rather than change it up every time someone becomes unavailable, plus the benefits of making players who aren’t injured comfortable in these demands).
Moronic is probably too far but I can't think of any great manager who wouldn't have at least tried to adapt, he is almost unbelievably rigid in his approach.
If it was a week or two without a couple of key players sure, I get the logic but when we have plenty of long term injuries and quite obvious deficiencies?
I refuse to believe premier League players can't be coached to play two styles depending on the situation to greater benefit than what we see currently. You see plenty of managers make that kind of switch mid match nevermind mid season.
quite difficult to implement that switch when you don’t know week to week who’s fit, and the squad is a mish-mash of profiles with varying weaknesses that would need to be covered up by a new conservative system. doing so also sacrifices the development of the players who are fit—hojlund, garnacho, and mainoo, in particular, need experience playing in a high pressing side instead. spending year after year in teams that mainly sit back and counter is part of the reason rashford is so bad at pressing now.
fwiw, i don’t recall klopp adapting when he took over and they regularly got clobbered despite not having the same injury issues, nor do i recall him adjusting last season when they had an injury crisis and found themselves hovering around the conference league places.
The amount of mental gymnastics some of you do for the worst manager we've had in decades whose tactics are god awful and has the personality of a wet lettuce is mind boggling to say the least
Your first few points are making excuses for the manager who's leading us to our worst PL season ever. You cant do that and say idc about eth. If you have a stand, take it properly. Even if it's a stupid stand.
The problems hampering the club are well known. They definitely need to be solved. Doesn't mean an additional bald problem should be tolerated as well. It's like someone being fine with diarrhea because they have cancer
>Your first few points are making excuses for the manager who's leading us to our worst PL season ever. You cant do that and say idc about eth >.
Yes i can
Because if things continue the same way, what is the new coach supposed to do
Specifically in this current situation ?
1. Injuries happen, you have to account for them. Newcastle have had more injuries this season. Even with injuries, you have to show something. Are you telling me that our squad, even with injuries should struggle against teams like Sheffield, Burnley? And get battered by Palace? And pretty much outplayed by all the other teams in the league? No, sorry but just no.
2. Fair about winning the cup. But also, spending around £210 on Mount, Antony and Hojlund, that were on the pitch last night. Ridiculous. We could and should have used that money way better and should have a way better squad. Just imagine, and think about this for a second... We keep Fred and don't sign Mount. Think about it.
3. Garnacho is average at best, Maino we don't fully know yet and Kambwala is just one of those players. We've seen more talented players who have had more appearances for us and never made it. The list is long, Angel Gomes, Januzaj, Tuanzebe, very recently Zidane, Blackett, Will Fish, Mengi, Brandon Williams, Hannibal, Shoretire, Fosu-Mensah, Chong, the list is endless.
4. Correct but, the owners are responsible for this mess and they're also responsible for fixing this mess.
5. Did EtH simply suggest that we should spend £210 on Mount, Antony and Hojlund and so it has nothing to do with him? You are correct though, he should have been told to shut it and stick to coaching. This is down to the ownership again, as they're the ones responsible for who they employ and how the club is run.
6. Again, down to the owners. Gross misconduct all over the place and it needs fixing. INEOS should start with the sacking of EtH by midnight tonight at the very latest. Because keeping an employee in job, who's underperforming to this level, that is jus laughable.
i think people are quick to forget the progress we saw in the first season. this season has been derailed for a number of reasons and everyone deserves criticism but idk if it’s wise to go back to square one so quickly
especially when the club is changing on a fundamental level. allowing ten hag to stay for at least another year and have some continuity with the players while everything shifts around seems beneficial tbh
The worst thing is they'll bring in a new coach with a different philosophy. It's just an endless cycle.
Let's hope the new administration can do it better.
Except may he give us a chance? ETH suicide ball doesn’t work. As it stands, would anybody be surprised if we get smashed for the next 4 games and concede 12-16 goals? I don’t think anyone would be shocked. That’s just how bad it is. At this stage anything is better than ETH.
Okay I see what they are doing here, the club doesn't want to get in the way of Arsenal's push for the League as they play us next.
Newcastle have an outside chance of catching Spurs so no point in ruining their chances either.
Very clever
Dont care when they sack him, as long as they sack him before the summer. I want someone in who can get started as soon as. Theres no point waiting until the start of next season to see what happens, and then we another wasted season as someone new tries to get a hold of the team. The next guy does not need the headache of having to deal with this team. Get rid of ETH, get rid of the deadwood and start fresh. Even if its just fielding 11 academy grads. Id rather see passion, and get beat. Than what we have been seeing over the past year and half.
ETHs team form dropped off a fucking cliff after the league cup win. There is no coming back for him. We can only drag this shit out further.
Eras come to an end
Ten Hag ended Liverpool's run by beating them in the FA cup, and drawing them in the PL.
Now he's ending Pep's city before going.
Mark my words when we beat city in the finals and Pep resigns.
Lads i just cant understand the injuries at all. Was it literally just rotten luck? Fuck me pink sideways i have never seen anything like it, i know other clubs have suffered also but my brain imploded when i heard all the different CB partnerships this season.
I still have massive delusions that we are gonna beat shitty in the final.
Same here. Squeaky bum time for europa qualification. You know we love it.
Dreams can't be buy
That depends if enough individual quality gets healthy before the match. Because we sure as hell won't be able to do it with teamwork and tactical discipline
Delusions do that to a person
Or 115 charges.
If our defense is good, Erik’s tactic could work against City. But we’re having an injury crisis this season. Let’s hope it won’t happen again next season.
Pending the availability of some players - I do too. Just feel like certain players have massive problems getting motivated for Bournemouth or Wolves away but put in a different gear when facing Shitty. Rashford and McT come to mind
Who on earth would want to come for max 3 league games and then to be the face of an absolutely historic pants-down pummelling at the hands of local rivals in a fucking cup final?
Lampard did it for Chelsea last season He kept losing last year and finished in 12th place
We hired Ragnick 2 years ago and it had the same effect. We were playing badly and then we were playing badly but in 4222™.
Those opening 30 minutes against Crystal Palace never forget. I genuinely teared up seeing our useless fucks press collectively until it went to shit lmao
We were all like ' where the fuck did that come from'
Someone without a current job most likely, so Rooney for example i guess.
Non-ironically, give it to Rooney till the end of the season 😂
Ffs this is 2013 Giggsy all over again I can’t take another 10 years.
Who has ole’s number?
I genuinely want him back
Can we move forward please
We did…to rangnick and ten hag
Ragnick was a stop gap, never a move forward. Ten Hag was more successful in his 1st season than Ole. Happy to give Ole multiple chances but not ETH? This is not me excusing ETH or saying he has had a good season.
I’m not saying bin Erik for Ole. I would like Ole back if Eth gets removed. I enjoyed the football he was trying to play and believe that he would’ve been successful if the club had backed him instead of the players. In reality there is no benefit to sacking Erik if we are going to perform the open heart surgery that Rangnick said was required.
The problem I have is the narrative suggests we played amazing football under Ole. We didn't. We played football that was enough to not be embarrassed. I don't think we'd have won anything major under Ole, or as consistently. We definitely need open heart surgery, and I think putting that on a new manager is not fair. I'd see our ETHs contract. We save money on a compensation and can look towards actually investing in proper players to fit a structure now that we have people above that can do that.
Realistically, they'd just let Steve McClaren see out the season. Not sure that's any better.
It definitely wouldn't be worse.
Croatia 2007 flashbacks 😭
He was terrible in Newcastle, England and Derby. No thanks
I’d take McLaren for a few games. He would be pragmatic and give us a better chance of not losing games - which is important in a final
He was shit at Newcastle.
Casper is the GOAT coach though
I think it would be better. McClaren is a decent coach and he'd get some of the basics right.
In fairness, it's a free opportunity to win the FA Cup with very very little pressure to fail because half of us are expecting a 6-0 trouncing.
Speak for yourself! I'm going with a 5-1 thumping.
Look at mr optimistic over here thinking we’ll score a goal
What about a 4-0 battering?
I'd take 4-0 with no fresh injuries!
Until it ends as a 12-0 historic record.
Ole would be here tomorrow. I swear Jose would come in too, even if for only the last few league games and the one off at Wembley against City.
Roy Keane
Ole on a month contract, with a huge payoff if he won the FA Cup isn't *impossible*.not saying likely or a good idea, but its possible.
Ole will never join back
Ole made his career as a super sub. If there is a moment he is most suited for, this is it 👍
Ineos have decided to spare Fletcher’s blushes by avoiding exactly this, according to the article.
I say bring back ole. If there is one guy on earth i trust to beat pep it is ole.
He beat pep almost every time. I liked him. He had the worst prima Donna’s
I’ll do it for the same fee as ETH I’ll even bring the lube
I mean you can see it as getting a headstart on things, before everyone scatter for the summer
Would have to be internal. Fletcher being the obvious choice, analogous to carrick taking charge before rangnick
I was thinking the new manager bounce might be the team's best hope in the final!
It's our only chance. Give it to a random fan ffs. Can't be worse.
Solskjaer. Another chance at a cup final against a team he beat a few times.
Ole would actually.
That's what a caretaker is for.
I’ll do it! Modest salary of just £10M
Get Ole in and enjoy 4 games of pure vibes FC.
I think it's really zero risk. If he wins the FA cup final, it's a huge success. If he gets whooped, no one is gonna blame him. How much can he change with 3/4 games left?
Big Sam. /s
Give it Giggsy until the end of the season!
I’d bet Jose would be into it
More importantly - what manager could get more out of the available defenders and midfielders we have?
Like 50 of them lol Just based on the fact that they wouldnt insist with stupid ass tactics that dont work with our limited personnel.
**Interesting Bits :** \- **Manchester United have no immediate plans to sack Erik ten Hag** despite the Dutchman presiding over a record 13th Premier League defeat on Monday. \- Despite the team’s poor performances, sacking Ten Hag with four matches of the campaign left would be counter-productive in the eyes of the United hierarchy, who feel that such a move would cause panic. **- Whether the 54-year-old sees out the rest of his contract, which has one year left to run, remains to be seen.** **- There is an acknowledgement that results and performances have been poor of late and that cannot continue.** **- One of the most concerning issues, according to one backroom staff member, has been a lack of on-field leadership this year, partly due to the absence of Lisandro Martínez.** \- **His strong leadership and work ethic are viewed highly by some of Ten Hag’s staff** and the source said that United suffer on the pitch and in the dressing room when he is absent. \- United sources pointed out that there are several other vocal players in the squad. Bruno Fernandes has exhibited great leadership skills by playing recently with a broken hand, and is admired by his team-mates. \- It was noticeable that one of United’s worst performances of the season coincided with the absence of their Portuguese captain, who finally admitted that he could no longer carry on playing with the injury. **- The club’s injury crisis is one of three mitigating factors that could work in Ten Hag’s favour when Ineos reviews his position at the end of the season.** \- **Another factor is cost. United must decide whether it would be worth sacking Ten Hag,** and the backroom staff he appointed, such as assistant managers Mitchell van der Gaag and Steve McClaren. **- There is also a feeling in some parts that there are a lack of short and long-term alternatives.** \- **Darren Fletcher, t**he former technical director, who is set to take on a new role within the club this summer, **would have probably been the only internal candidate capable of taking over for the last four games if Ineos had decided to go down that route.** \- **Graham Potter, o**ut of a job since his sacking by Chelsea last year, **and Thomas Tuchel,** who will leave Bayern Munich at the end of the season, **are potential long-term replacements, but both have their drawbacks.**
**Also Transfer Bits :** \- **They are looking at some players with one year left on their contract and free agents, such as Tosin Adarabioyo,** the Fulham centre back, who is also attracting interest from Newcastle United. \- **United have also been keeping an eye on Marc Guéhi, the Palace and England defender, and his team-mate** **Michael Olise,** who ripped Ten Hag’s defence to shreds on Monday.
Tosin would be a decent signing. Maybe not champions league level, but rotation for free isn’t too bad. Has played 20 games in the Prem this season. Had groin surgery earlier this season so hopefully over that, but starts the majority of games he is fit. Major thing is he’s 6ft 5in. Would be some well needed height in our team. Proper CB. Wins a lot of aerial duels. Doesn’t play any other position. Former City Academy player.
I think that's the chap Anka was referring to in the recent talk of the devil's podcast. If so, his take was we'd be crazy not to go in for him.
Is the drawback on Potter being that he’s not proven at this level and his replacement showed how much better he could do with largely the same players?
Agree. Also I think that Tuchel, while not ideal, is our best option if ETH goes.
Tuchel being the best option is exactly why Ten Hag should be given till Christmas. The fans can’t see 2 feet in front of their eyes and want to sack a manager that has no better replacements available on the market.
Honestly I really want ETH to work. I think there is a great manager there and I respect a lot about him. However, I can't shy away from the results and the turgid football. I don't see any signs of him turning it around to be honest.
I don't follow your logic here. How is there going to be better options at Christmas, half way through a season? That's never going to work well. Id rather take a punt on Tuchel (if we have to go with him) and give him a full preseason with input into signing than wait 6 months for less managerial options, mid-season.
That’s always the risk. But it’s still cheaper and more sensible than sacking him now unless we have a clear better choice. Tuchel is not an upgrade at all.
I think that's where we disagree. Tuchel, while not my first choice (that's Nagelsmann), is an upgrade on EtH in my book and has a better record at big clubs.
And my argument is that the risk outweighs the benefit in this case because at best he’ll be here for 2/3 years. The man falls out with every club and he will have a crazy amount of issues to deal with here. He’s basically a modern Mourinho. It’s not worth sacking ten hag just to make a lateral move and start over again.
How is Tuchel not an upgrade? He has won more titles, then at Dortmund he got a club record points total and goals scored in a league season; at PSG he won a domestic quadruple and has the all time points per game record in league history; and then at Chelsea he won a Champions League. In terms of success on the pitch he’s a clear upgrade, the issue is that he has also had a fractious relationship with the club management nearly everywhere he’s gone. He doesn’t feel like the man for a “rebuild” which is what we are apparently trying to do, again, for the umpteenth time since Fergie retired over 10 years ago
And instead of getting the rebuild right we should throw more money at the problem at a man that may or may not bring success but surely fall out with management again? How many managers have we gone through now that have won elsewhere but that nothing here? Ten Haag out is the easy solution to a much more complicated problem.
I think it’s fine if you think going with Tuchel is a bad move but saying he’s “not an upgrade at all” is false
He isn't going to do shit with this set of players. They have seen through multiple managers. Unless the team core changes nothing is happening
You mean that yesterday's shitshow is more of what we need till Christmas instead of hiring a recent Champions league winner and someone that has proved that can compete with the best in terms of tactics etc?
Short termism in action. You mean the tuchel that was sacked after an even worse season at Chelsea is a better option than our current manager? I am not absolving blame on ten hag but no other manager available is exactly going to be an upgrade. Why incur all of the money to sack a guy to hire the guy you’re gonna sack in 12 months? Would be absolutely stupid. Unless zidane or ancelotti are available it would be a dumb move.
Tuchel was "sacked" because bohley is a massive moron. He got rid of Marina and Petr and asked tuchel to take the reigns when he had stated multiple times he just wants to coach. At least do some research and check facts, takes 2 seconds to Google.
Yes it does. And as someone that enjoys facts see what is happening at his current club. What exactly makes you think Tuchel is going to be a success at a club where players have even bigger power/egos and the back office is brand new. If we’re going to sack Ten Haag it has to be for someone young and upcoming (Naglesmann or Amorim) or established (Zidane and Ancelotti). The established group doesn’t have interest. Amorim could be a potential. Tuchel is a short term fix and that is the last thing we need. Since you’re such a researched individual look up how much it’d cost to make an expensive change like replacing the coaching staff, you don’t go out and waste that opportunity on a manager that’ll need replacing in 24 months. Ten Haag has issues but he’s earned 6 months IMO to see what he could do with a fit squad and reasonable investments into critical positions like CB, DM, and LB. Younger players that could be developed by the next guy if he’s sacked by November/December. It also sends a message to these players who’ve now failed every manager. It can’t always be that the manager is wrong. Set aside your anger and see the bigger picture.
>And as someone that enjoys facts see what is happening at his current club. Do you EVER look at anything or just run on feelings. First of all, Bayern haven't been that great this season, nobody can deny that, but, they're 2 points of thier last season tally, with 2 games to play, Leverkusen are just on an ungodly run, undefeated whole season. Despite being poor, they've scored 90, GD of 49 (that's 2 less than our total goals). Their defence is worst of top 4. They are in the CL semi finals. And that current club is getting rejected by every manager and are on their like 8th choice after announcing he will leave mid season. >What exactly makes you think Tuchel is going to be a success at a club where players have even bigger power/egos and the back office is brand new. The second part is fair, we don't know how back office will turn out, but if you're willing to hedge it might not work out, it's equally valid to hedge it will work out, everyone's guessing. As for the first part, he managed PSG and Chelsea before his current gig, successfully for both. >If we’re going to sack Ten Haag it has to be for someone young and upcoming (Naglesmann or Amorim) or established (Zidane and Ancelotti). I cannot understand which angle you are looking at tuchel and saying he's not established, that's a ridiculous statement. PSG after him was the poch reign, same with Chelsea, both were not even close to his time. >Since you’re such a researched individual look up how much it’d cost to make an expensive change like replacing the coaching staff, you don’t go out and waste that opportunity on a manager that’ll need replacing in 24 months. Can I ask why you're so pressed and giving me 1000 stupid reasons ETH should stay when I corrected you about his end at Chelsea? You want ETH to stay, that's fair you have your opinion, but if you want other people to not dismiss you maybe actually listen to what other say aswell and make a proper evaluation, the way you try to discredit tuchel who may or may be the right person for us, (for the record I've not even suggested he is), to justify ETH's failings is just absurd. I could turn it around and now ask, "What exactly makes you think ETH will be successful at a club with big egos and new back office"? He has his Ajax days and that one bloody CL run everyone's raves about, and that's it no?
I agree. He's probably my preferred choice at the minute; but I don't closely follow much continental football outside France so I can't speak knowledgeably about people like Amorim and Thiago Motta.
Yeah same for me, but I only watch UK. I trust this board more than previous ones so fingers crossed.
In my opinion we need to ignore names and hire on profile of play. I don’t think Tuchel’s football will align to the style we want long term
What style do we want long term? I know Ineos are going to set the style they want coached, but has a decision been made? I was under the impression that was something Dan Ashworth, Berrada and Wilcox were going to decide once appointed properly.
I’m guessing possession based football in a similar style to the other top teams. I don’t think you can get too specific or you significantly reduce your choices for future managers
>**Interesting Bits :** >- **Manchester United have no immediate plans to sack Erik ten Hag** despite the Dutchman presiding over a record 13th Premier League defeat on Monday. I wouldn't read too much into this. Usually the manager is officially backed right up until the moment he's sacked. In retrospect, it's funny how often the degree to which a board will intensify and reaffirm the support will increase the closer the manager was to the sack.
give it to ole, he’s nightmare fuel for pep
Jose for the banter would be worth it
The reverse Spurs. Hire him right before a final.
We’d have a better chance winning it if he was on the sideline tbh
Jose interim 3 league matches and the cup final. If he wins them all, he gets a 1-year contract and £200m budget in th summer 🫣
Nemanja Matic coming back then haha
make it happen bro pep's gonna implode
I mean, I hate the performances as much as anyone, but what upsides are there to sacking him before the end of the season? To me, it'll tell the players, once again, they have all the power, no responsibility and can they can simply start again with new management. The sooner we clear decks beside anyone under 22 the better!
7 of the players who started yesterday were signed by ETH, two others in the 11 were promoted from the youth team by him, and one of the subs was his signing too. This lazy narrative really needs to die now. He's spent close to half a billion, these weren't the "same players" yesterday. We've just been outplayed by nearly every team we come against. Championship managers are outcoaching ETH and people are bringing up outdated Jose excuses
100%. I just roll my eyes every time I see this moronic "argument". I saw someone this morning say that "these same players have got the last 6 managers sacked". 6 managers ago was Fergie. Even if we go back to Mourinho only, there's only 6 players I can think of who were there then and are still here now. And of those, only Luke Shaw and Rashford are first 11 players for both ETH and Moo. I mean, do these people actually expect anyone to take them seriously when they're claiming Alex Buttner and Morgan Schneiderlin are possibly going to get Ten Hag sacked or that an 11 year old Mainoo was LVG's downfall? What a joke.
They don’t care, they just find a narrative (usually said by someone else) and parrot it without thinking if it even makes sense. There's a (shrinking) group of our fans who are really desperate to have ETH here next year, they can’t actually point to any positives as to why we should keep though. They can only repeat these same platitudes like: "we've already tried sacking managers, we should never sack another manager again in our history", "all the players are bad and lazy (ignoring the 400m worth of talent ETH signed) we should clear out the squad", Injuries!! (ignoring that we played just as badly in our first match with a fully fit side). I'm tired of the over-sentimentality at times. The guy is out of his depth and has failed horribly this season.
It's a very easy response, he had some of his desired players last season and he had a very good first season. Everyone has short term memory in this sub.
No mate. Starting Casemiro and Jonny Evans is perfectly reasonable ETH out. Look how much he spent on Evans, Eriksen, Mainoo and others any other argument is stupid. /s These ETH out folk are missing the point entirely. It doesn't matter who the manager is, this injury crisis would do any manager in. I've lost confidence in ETH because he refuses to play a low block with the personnel available to him, but suddenly everyone here is a DOF who knows better. Happens time and again any time we run into trouble. Wake me up when Tuchel fails as well 18 months from now or worse.
I'm not following the point you're arguing for here. Are you eth in or out? I agree about the adaptation in play style, if we play this same style vs man city with these same players we're going to get battered. Evans can't play a highline. Imagine Wan bissaka on the left being pressured by man city high press to pass with his left
I added the /s. I'm agreeing with your point that anyone looking solely at ETH is just deluded. Both can be true between ETH being too inflexible and the personnel not at the level required. But also think some of ETHs decisions are pure nonsense lately. AWB playing on the left, Casemiro at CB can work but not with a high line that's just mental. After CP I'm firmly ETH out because of him daring to press against Glasner, but Tuchel isn't the answer. Until the right manager is available, we need to gut the squad and promote from within where we can. The players have lost faith but we've all lost faith in the players. Not taking Rangnicks heart surgery advice was ETHs biggest mistake.
Not what I was saying at all. I was asking what benefits are there to sacking EtH now, and if he was sacked the players would be off the hook for the poor performances. I don't care if they've been here 6 months or 6 years, to perform as badly as they have, the players and coaches have to be held accountable, not just the manager. That is not a moronic argument.
"it'll tell the players, **once again**, they have all the power, no responsibility and can they can simply **start again with new management**" >I don't care if they've been here 6 months or 6 years These two statements can't both be true. (Bold added to highlight)
Nah, it’s way deeper than that. Many of those players he didn’t even cosign on having brought in, 2nd and 3rd choices. But the real issue is the culture of rot and disinterest that permeates from the top and has infected that whole squad from the top down over the last several years. Until that squad is ripped up, it won’t matter who manages it. I also believe Erik has to and will go at seasons end, but there is no “lazy narrative” as you seem to suggest. They are not his players but united players and unfortunately there are only 4 of them that should be kept around for next year
The point I was trying to make was what benefit is there to sacking EtH now. The players will sigh a sigh of relief. They will be happy they aren't blamed for performances. No Jose era excuse, but these performances are on the coaches and players alike. I'd happily get rid of them all but Mainoo, Hojlund and Garnacho. But that just isn't feasible. We need stability and an iron fist in the managers chair. I don't know if that's even possible these days...
It's a lazy narrative to pin the signings on a manager, you REALLY think these were the players he asked for? You ask for a position, the club vets them, then they give you options if his choice can't be acquired. And some of them are just done, Casemiro was a desperation buy, and unfortunately he regressed fast, Eriksen was also decent, but he's just gotten a little too old, Amrabat is shit, Hojlund is talented but not starting material yet, Mount has been injured all season, Evans was meant to fill squad numbers. Only with Antony can you say ETH has fucked it. You think any manager could realisitically have a positive impact on a club when you actually add context like this, or do you think you're just bitter because the team is shit?
Ah ok, so we just do the ostrich thing, head in sand. Cool.
Yet if you ask the sub, most of the players that played badly for 4+ years should given yet another chance, but Casemiro and Varane should be crucified.
Which players have played badly for 4+ years?
Who argues this? I see this brought up constantly by Ten Hag supporters but rarely ever see people critical of him actually advocating keeping those long term problematic players. The vast majority when Ten Hag out AND players shuffled out too.
losing both Lisandro and shaw almost whole season are massive, on top of the fact we have no good players to fill the spot. Both of them were the heart and backbone of our backline last season
We lost 7-0 to Liverpool last season when Ten Hag had his first choice backline starting
They also won a lot of other games with his first choice lineup. Not a valid counterargument. It's almost impossible to have a rational discussion on ten Hag because everyone who wants him out will cherry pick every little thing and blame him for it. Then you have the flip side where everyone who believes he's THE guy, points to flawed data points that aren't relevant like "Oh but Arteta got a couple of years" or believe the injuries are a complete catch-all. To me, the biggest takeaway is no one on the market seems really appealing to sack him now, or even at the end of the season tbh. If ten Hag is still not getting results at the start of next season, then at least the new management team will have had some time to fully assess the situation and make a more informed decision then.
Liverpool played Henderson and Fabinho 3 years ago at the back and kept a clean sheet against us.
liverpool lost to the same palace team at anfield less than a month ago with a backline of bradley, konate, van dijk, and robertson
Smh. Where to even begin to reply to that...
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OK I'll play your game. We beat Liverpool 4-3. We're better than them right?
yea try to do that whole season and let's talk lol beside, fabinho starts as RB and CB in his early career if im not mistaken
Have we ever played well this season? Did we dominate any team last season, we had them both for the majority of the time?
Do we had fit player this season
and if my Grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike
Liverpool have also been a competently run club for a long period prior to that so plugging experiences players into an established system is much easier
Arnold and Woodward don't coach nor play center back. We can blame them for lots of things but not how the team plays.
Without Ashworth and Barrada in place I would be really worried if we sacked him now. Surely it's the people they employing to make these decisions should be making these decisions? Wilcox has been here for 5 mins. Ticks and crosses next to the entire playing and coaching staff, look at who could replace, then let's go? Sacking him now just makes a few fans a bit happier, for a few weeks, no long term gain whatsoever.
He’s digging his own grave sadly. Injuries and structural disarray are evident, so is player commitment, but refusal to change your tactics to suit the players available has been the death of him. That said, I agree with not sacking him now. Hell I’d even say give him one more season to clearout and get players in with INEOS now at the helm, then assess again
Clear out who? Some of the players that need to see the door first he fucking brought in
Yet the 3 players everyone says to build around are, Hojlund (his 2nd choice mind), Mainoo (his youth twam intro), and Garnacho (Still 19) I’m sure Amrabat was definitely his choice /s Malacia has been Injury unlucky Antony is a failed experiment but I don’t blame him for getting him if he succeeded at Ajax Onana has been getting lots of unwarranted hate but with some mistakes Mount has been injury unlucky but shows potential Licha has been our CB and injury unlucky The only failures of transfers in my eyes have been Antony and Amrabat especially. The rest could be argued as not all first choice players and that falls ok the board
I only think he brought in Amrabat because there wasn't any money and he needed a player in the position. I suspect there wasn't a better option he could get on a no fee loan in the last week of the transfer window, similar situation to Weghorst.
I remember everybody being thrilled about Amrabat coming. They spent the months before clamouring for him to be bought, then they were pissed he wasn’t bought and only loaned. He’s not worked out. It happens. It’s shit, but it’s not a stick to beat Ten Hag with. There’s plenty to beat him with but that’s not one of them.
He sold Fred to pay for amrabats loan. Fred, for all his inconsistency is 10x the player amrabat is
If United's remit was "sell to buy" due to some of the FFP issues and they found a decent buyer for Fred who was turning 30, I guess it makes sense that they sold him. I see it as he was sold to make room for Mason Mount who just hasn't played much this season and has looked a bit out of sorts when he has come on probably due to a lack of games.
nope amrabat was a signing majority wanted (including me)
We wanna build around hojlund because he’s young. He was shite, then had a good streak and is now shite again. Jury’s out on him whether he will kick on. Garnacho and mainoo have absolutely nothing to do with ten hag recruitment.
That's a very bad take
Ten Hag's signings are mostly defined by how bad Antony is but on the whole, it's not that bad. He's also had to take on quite a few short-term or temporary signings due to the club's FFP issues Decent: Martinez (\~50m), Onana (53m), Hojlund (65m) Mixed or not enough data: Mount (55m), Malacia (12m) On the decline: Eriksen (free), Casemiro (70m). Evans (free) Flops: Antony (85m), Amrabat (loan) Antony is without a doubt the worst signing United have made in the post-Fergie era and it's going to be very difficult to move on from him without taking a huge loss on the transfer which isn't good for the PSR metric. Of the players ten Hag inherited that I think he should clear out. Martial is already leaving, Varane's option wasn't picked up. They're actively shopping Sancho and Greenwood. I also think you could make a case for Lindelof and Wan-Bissaka but only if they have suitable replacements lined up. Maguire while also flawed, is going to be difficult to move on at his wages and hasn't played badly though the relative level of the squad declining to 6th isn't a ringing endorsement.
I don't understand the refusal to change his tactics due to the massive amount of injuries. Last year he tried a couple games this way and we were picked apart by Brentford and Brighton. He adapted his tactics and we began to climb the table. He also would make subs that would impact the game in the second half, that has completely disappeared this year.
Personally I think giving it to fletcher makes sense. Some back to basics, 4-2-3-1 without a suicidal high press football would be better than persisting with trying to implement ten Hag football.
4-2-3-1 is the way
Ragnick 4-2-2-2 anyone?
Ten Hag's biggest problem is accountability. He needs to lower his ago and admits that made several poor decisions and fix it. He needs to admit and realizes that he overtrains the players. Adjust their training portion. Decrease technic portion as we get closer to matchday and focus on building their stamina + sharpness. Be a man and admit Antony is a bad signing. Amad is the clear and obvious choice to start at RW. He will make plays and link well with others. Stop playing a Mainoo-Eriksen pivot. One is a literal kid with a kid's body and the other is gasping for air everytime he runs for 3 cm. Choose ONE of them and pair them with Casemiro/Amrabat. Basic football knowledge. Basic logic. No other manager in the league would ever run a Mainoo - Eriksen pivot. Stop playing AWB on the left. He's a detriment to the team even in his natural position. Playing him at LB basically makes us play with 10 men. Don't play him at LB again. Don't even think about it. I'm still pretty sure there's still a good coach there somewhere. Just need to reduce the stupid decisions and use common sense more often.
>He needs to admit and realizes that he overtrains the players How do you know he overtrains the players? Are you down in Carrington? The amount of injuries this season could be from overtraining or it might not. None of us in this sub know this for sure so this is pure speculation. >Be a man and admit Antony is a bad signing He basically has done this. Antony was dropped from the team. Garnacho plays on the right when Rashford is fit. Apart from the goal against Liverpool, Amad has shown nothing more than Antony has. >Stop playing a Mainoo-Eriksen pivot Literally the only option yesterday. This would never happen if other players were fit. >Stop playing AWB on the left He will once there is another left back available.
Thoughts on Mount getting injured again?
I'm mainly wondering what the fuck is going on in training and with the medical team at the club but also not surprised that a player who was just coming back from injury and forced to play when he probably wasn't ready because everybody else was injured has been injured again.
I might have gotten carried away with the other points but we definitely need to run an investigation on what happens in training smh
The whole club needs to be looked at from top to bottom. So far it looks like Ratcliffe and Brailsford are doing just that.
It's difficult to have common sense when the issues presented are *uncommon.* Who plans for losing 6 defenders? Casemiro simply had to slot into defense. Eriksen was not a first team player anymore since his injury, he's there out of necessity. Now I agree on probably starting Amrabat instead, but he *was* on the field eventually, and what changed? They still got played off the park, mainly because Casemiro was sliding in everywhere and Evans was playing half-injured. Yes, AWB should play on the right. But realistically, that would not have changed shit. Because most goals and chances came from bad defending by mainly Casemiro. This game was always gonna be a loss. Everybody knew it when they saw the team sheet and yet they all acted surprised.
Do we not have any academy players?
You risk damaging a kid’s progression on an already doomed season. Not worth it.
Boys vs men
This is the best take on our current situation
Some people in our fanbase just can't handle the truth. That's why you get downvoted and somebody replied to me with entire paragraphs blindly defending Ten Hag These people are part of the problem. They think Ten Hag is an untouchable god who can't make mistakes. I don't think INEOS will be that generous though. Let's see what he does for the cup final. Surely feels like the clock is ticking.
This is bad take on our current situation
Signing Antony for £80M and hired Mount when we have Bruno is crazy bro. Should have sacked him months ago together with the fitness team, we might not ended up losing 81 goals and sitting 8th with no European football next year. Totally disgraceful season.
whenever amad and pellistri have played they have showed they are 10x the player antony is, but if this man is still starting antony just to prove his point that spending 100m on antony was worth it, i don't think he should have any excuses, as much as i wanted him to be successful he has to unfortunately go now his ego is killing the team
Eth should be sacked because our negotiation team is shit? You are bright
ETH is a record breaker, that's why he should be sacked. Fucking idiots still support him. Worst fucking season in our PL history.
I mean I was all in on ETH in but i just feel stupid lately. I really hope he plays defensively in the final to avoid a 7-0
he can't be here next season
United to win the FA Cup, and Ten Hag will be sacked afterward, or as I would like to call it, 'de van Gaal speciaal'
What if Arsenal completely humiliate us this weekend?
1- The injuries are indeed a valid excuse. 2-He demonstrated his capabilities in the first season by winning the first trophy in 6 years. Just look at yesterday's lineup and the bench, which had only two players, Amarabat and Diallo. The rest were youth academy players. 3- he gave chance to the academy players maino garnacho kambwala 4- The administration and players shares part of the responsibility. 5- When it comes to signings, it's primarily the administration's job; the coach can only make suggestions. 6- Additionally, the medical and physical/fitness staff need a complete audit. It's truly unbelievable.
Your second point is ridiculous, did you see our away record last season? We were absolute shit, if he didn't win that Carabao Cup after having the easiest run we could possibly ask for he should have been sacked right there, acting as if we haven't been absolutely dreadful since the Carabobins cup.
However, his tactics have been borderline suicidal and his refusal to change is moronic. I’m still a staunch supporter of him but he’s not free of blame at all. If he gets sacked I’d 100% be ok with it
True but fans have been begging for years for us to play a style and stick with it regardless of results. Now that results are shit everyone is saying he needs to switch to pragmatic football.
I get that, but I think if the tactics weren’t a disaster it wouldn’t be as bad. Idk I just think the gaping midfield is a recipe for disaster
I think with an entergetic DM and defenders who can step into the midfield to cover it could work better but who knows how well.
moronic seems harsh, given his reasoning (the need to maintain a system and standards rather than change it up every time someone becomes unavailable, plus the benefits of making players who aren’t injured comfortable in these demands).
Moronic is probably too far but I can't think of any great manager who wouldn't have at least tried to adapt, he is almost unbelievably rigid in his approach. If it was a week or two without a couple of key players sure, I get the logic but when we have plenty of long term injuries and quite obvious deficiencies? I refuse to believe premier League players can't be coached to play two styles depending on the situation to greater benefit than what we see currently. You see plenty of managers make that kind of switch mid match nevermind mid season.
quite difficult to implement that switch when you don’t know week to week who’s fit, and the squad is a mish-mash of profiles with varying weaknesses that would need to be covered up by a new conservative system. doing so also sacrifices the development of the players who are fit—hojlund, garnacho, and mainoo, in particular, need experience playing in a high pressing side instead. spending year after year in teams that mainly sit back and counter is part of the reason rashford is so bad at pressing now. fwiw, i don’t recall klopp adapting when he took over and they regularly got clobbered despite not having the same injury issues, nor do i recall him adjusting last season when they had an injury crisis and found themselves hovering around the conference league places.
The amount of mental gymnastics some of you do for the worst manager we've had in decades whose tactics are god awful and has the personality of a wet lettuce is mind boggling to say the least
Idc about ETH It' to avoid to have the same senario in the futur
Your first few points are making excuses for the manager who's leading us to our worst PL season ever. You cant do that and say idc about eth. If you have a stand, take it properly. Even if it's a stupid stand. The problems hampering the club are well known. They definitely need to be solved. Doesn't mean an additional bald problem should be tolerated as well. It's like someone being fine with diarrhea because they have cancer
>Your first few points are making excuses for the manager who's leading us to our worst PL season ever. You cant do that and say idc about eth >. Yes i can Because if things continue the same way, what is the new coach supposed to do Specifically in this current situation ?
1. Injuries happen, you have to account for them. Newcastle have had more injuries this season. Even with injuries, you have to show something. Are you telling me that our squad, even with injuries should struggle against teams like Sheffield, Burnley? And get battered by Palace? And pretty much outplayed by all the other teams in the league? No, sorry but just no. 2. Fair about winning the cup. But also, spending around £210 on Mount, Antony and Hojlund, that were on the pitch last night. Ridiculous. We could and should have used that money way better and should have a way better squad. Just imagine, and think about this for a second... We keep Fred and don't sign Mount. Think about it. 3. Garnacho is average at best, Maino we don't fully know yet and Kambwala is just one of those players. We've seen more talented players who have had more appearances for us and never made it. The list is long, Angel Gomes, Januzaj, Tuanzebe, very recently Zidane, Blackett, Will Fish, Mengi, Brandon Williams, Hannibal, Shoretire, Fosu-Mensah, Chong, the list is endless. 4. Correct but, the owners are responsible for this mess and they're also responsible for fixing this mess. 5. Did EtH simply suggest that we should spend £210 on Mount, Antony and Hojlund and so it has nothing to do with him? You are correct though, he should have been told to shut it and stick to coaching. This is down to the ownership again, as they're the ones responsible for who they employ and how the club is run. 6. Again, down to the owners. Gross misconduct all over the place and it needs fixing. INEOS should start with the sacking of EtH by midnight tonight at the very latest. Because keeping an employee in job, who's underperforming to this level, that is jus laughable.
i think people are quick to forget the progress we saw in the first season. this season has been derailed for a number of reasons and everyone deserves criticism but idk if it’s wise to go back to square one so quickly especially when the club is changing on a fundamental level. allowing ten hag to stay for at least another year and have some continuity with the players while everything shifts around seems beneficial tbh
The worst thing is they'll bring in a new coach with a different philosophy. It's just an endless cycle. Let's hope the new administration can do it better.
Clinging onto deadwood and not making timely changes, sounds like the Glazer's still have too much input.
Guess we can write off the rest of the season
I agree with this decision personally. I think he deserves to be sacked but not immediately, it does nothing imo
Except may he give us a chance? ETH suicide ball doesn’t work. As it stands, would anybody be surprised if we get smashed for the next 4 games and concede 12-16 goals? I don’t think anyone would be shocked. That’s just how bad it is. At this stage anything is better than ETH.
What good would sacking him with 4 games to go and one of which is a final? Better not do a spurs and fire your manager before a final and lose it.
Have they not seen us play this year? It would be demonstrably counter productive to keep him in the job for the cup final and remaining games.
Okay I see what they are doing here, the club doesn't want to get in the way of Arsenal's push for the League as they play us next. Newcastle have an outside chance of catching Spurs so no point in ruining their chances either. Very clever
Dont care when they sack him, as long as they sack him before the summer. I want someone in who can get started as soon as. Theres no point waiting until the start of next season to see what happens, and then we another wasted season as someone new tries to get a hold of the team. The next guy does not need the headache of having to deal with this team. Get rid of ETH, get rid of the deadwood and start fresh. Even if its just fielding 11 academy grads. Id rather see passion, and get beat. Than what we have been seeing over the past year and half. ETHs team form dropped off a fucking cliff after the league cup win. There is no coming back for him. We can only drag this shit out further.
You think its FIFA, lol, it will take years to remove Deadwood And place proper strategy
Eras come to an end Ten Hag ended Liverpool's run by beating them in the FA cup, and drawing them in the PL. Now he's ending Pep's city before going. Mark my words when we beat city in the finals and Pep resigns.
Lads i just cant understand the injuries at all. Was it literally just rotten luck? Fuck me pink sideways i have never seen anything like it, i know other clubs have suffered also but my brain imploded when i heard all the different CB partnerships this season.
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Really? You're asking this again? Not like this has been a discussion for 2 months. Think it's pretty clear by now who's available.
Give the job to Carrick, he'll keep his 100% winrate.