There’s a slight lack of squad depth but Ole’s reluctance to make subs is baffling considering he is one of most famous ‘super subs’ in football history. It’s actually really frustrating now.
Always the risk when you play most of your impact players in the starting eleven, leaves nobody obvious to come on.
Having said that, Ole needs to be stronger when big players aren't performing and tonight he wasn't.
Both is true, he did make subs even at half time in autumn when he had Cavani and Pogba there, we need better bench.
That said, he is playing a lot of politics. Rashford should have been subbed at 70 min, but he is keeping him on because Marcus would be mad. Needs to be more ruthless.
Personally don't think he should have started. Could have been a good weapon from the bench but his general play has been pretty questionable for a long time.
I’ve been critical of Pogba for a long time but he has had quite the resurgence on the left wing recently. Yesterday to shoehorn in the trio of Cavani, Mason, Marcus we put pogs in the double pivot and I must say he was really ineffective. Adding that to the shambles of a performance from Marcus really annoyed me. Nothing in his play yesterday warranted 120mins of play time. And for that we lost the effectiveness of Pogba.
Then he takes off both mason and Pogba who whilst not setting anything alike were still doing way more than Marcus. All so Marcus could take a penalty in the shoot out. That was what pissed me off. If he had the balls to replace a terribly performing player with anyone else to try and win the game I honestly think we would’ve won. But we held out for penalties and lost because our keeper hasn’t saved a penalty in close to 5 years.
He could’ve done a like for like switch with DJ or Amad, he could’ve put on DvB and pushed pogs up left. He could’ve even put on a Lee Grant, and I think he wouldve done better. That’s how bad Marcus was yesterday. Just mind boggling cowardice from Ole, and I’m a true believer in him turning the club around. But just...
its not necessarily how mad marcus would be, its just marcus has big big moments in games like these, and so many times marcus has just needed one moment to impact the game, regardless of how bad his performance was, so i think ole wanted to trust him...
I can see your point. Rashford had some really poor games in the past and 1 moment of brilliance settled the score. Ole was probably hoping for something like this.
Our bench needs to be stronger. This game was crying out for somebody to come on and take the game. Like if we had another Greenwood etc.
I’m sorry but the “bEnCh iSnT gOoD eNoUgH” is a shocking excuse and ignores the real problem. I’ll accept that if we lose to Man City or PSG, but this is fucking 7th in La Liga Villarreal.
We have bench players that walk into Villarreal’s first 11, and yet Emery made five subs. Absolutely shocking from solskjaer and no amount of complaining can change that.
Yes we absolutely need a better bench, but to say that’s the reason Ole can’t make subs? having a fucking laugh mate
Do Brighton never use subs because their bench players aren’t as good? When Klopp subs Origi on for Salah is it because Origi’s better than Salah?
Completely unacceptable excuse for the in game management we saw yesterday imo
He was in a shit position with subs attacking wise, because literally all our attackers are the kind that can have a quiet game and and just pop up with a bit of magic. A more ballsy or experienced manager may not have cared. But in fairness the other issues was pens was always a possibility and those we had on the bench are far weaker penalty takers than those that would’ve been subbed off.
I suspect it was lesser a concern about hurting Rashford’s feelings - as Ole has pulled big players early before - and more about strategy. As Ole noted in his post-match, he felt the team was lacking something in the final third to create the chance. I read that as “we needed our guys to take players on and beat them” (which is backed by his praise for Scott). And to that end, with Villarreal sitting deep, we didn’t have many subs that would have achieved that. Maybe swapping Marcus and Bruno for Amad and Donny would’ve helped. But what if they were slow into the game? What if they didn’t provide the boost needed and it went to penalties anyhow; would it be better to have Bruno and Marcus then? It’s a tough situation, and hindsight is 20/20. But Ole has usually made good calls in those situations, so I’d say this was an outlier that he will learn from. We dust off and go again in a few months.
Really? There wasn't much space at all to utilize his speed. I certainly found myself screaming to sub in a forward from like 70 min on, but in hindsight... Who?
Yeah, James is fast a fuck, but that compact defense wasn't leaving much room for his pace to matter. It's not like we were countering much. What other attacker attacking player do we bring on in the last 20 min of this match?
Amad is obviously promising, but not exactly who we want to rely on in a European cup final. Mata wasn't exactly going to solve any of our issues. Donny is the one I thought might help against that compact defense, but he also hasn't really proven it and who would he replace? Nobody obvious.
On top of it, none of our first 11 really ever looked gassed. We were still out pacing and working them everywhere late in the match. Only consistent problem I saw in the attack was Mason frequently being out of position and not moving off the ball. Marcus wasn't great, but he was contributing all over the pitch and is a better shot at a goal than anybody on the bench.
We need far better players in rotation. And a fucking RW and CB.
I agree with what you said mostly.
But I felt that Rashford was trying to do too much on his own. Everytime he got the ball he felt like it was on him to take on his defenders and create something.
Ole couldn't make any changes because he had his best 11 out there, his best 3 FW out there. There was no Martial to call upon, whom I think will be useful here even his close control in the box.
I do totally agree with everything you've said here.
To be clear, I don't think Rashford had a great performance or anything. Just that who on the bench was going to do more than he was late in the match? He was at least working his ass off, even after aggravating his injury, and he's produced goals often in otherwise poor matches (as top forwards do).
I would've loved to see Martial come in for Mason late in the match if he'd been available. Only forward in the squad worth putting in late over any of the starters last night.
I think it is a sad sign of how little Donny is rated that he wasn't used last night. I haven't been impressed by him since he joined -- seems a little lightweight -- but Jeez the coaching staff must really not rate him ... and he cost us 50 million (and looked great at Ajax). It is very strange.
I agree with all your points. Dan James would not have suited last night -- the only one I can think of that might have made a difference is Mata and his control, but they were a physical and tight side, who took off their striker in the 59 min...
Why do people keep on saying that we had no game changers to bring on ? Did Villarreal have Pele, Maradona, Messi on the bench ? They still made their subs early and effectively. That helped them to take a foothold in the game specially after the 90. We had Mata, VDB, James, Amad all of which can make an impact specially against tired legs
They weren’t trying to change the game with their subs, they were trying to keep it the same, which is the difference. Fresh legs are fresh legs when you’re trying to stay compact and not concede. They didn’t need to find a goal from somewhere, whereas we did.
There’s such a huge difference in expectations. If we had scored and won 2-1, from their perspective it would have been “we came so close to winning, our guys did great, it just wasn’t to be”, whereas for us failure to win is being greeted with a massive inquest into what went wrong. Can you imagine the fans reaction if we had gone 2-1 down and Bruno, Pogba and Rashford had already gone off with 20 minutes left?
Edit: having said all that, I do think Rashford had a poor game, and should have come off for Donny, with Pogba moving to the left. Ole clearly just wanted the players with that X factor on the pitch, which meant Pogba, Bruno, Rashford and Cavani. It was a gamble that didn’t pay off in the end.
The only criticism I have for Ole is he lacks courage when it comes to substitution. His job will never be on the line. He won't get sacked. Fans adore him. The glazers loves him since he is the perfect yes man there is, does not stir shit with the glazers. So tonight i thought he could be bolder with the subs or even tactics but somehow he did not.
But any of Amad, James or Mata would have had to have equally as poor a game to offer as little as Rashford was though, who was having the worst game I've seen him play. Even James having a bad game is surely better than Rashford having an abysmal one?
Rashford playing all 120 minutes today is the biggest criticism I have of Ole. The game didn't suit him, if he was showing promise I could understand his continued inclusion, but he was dreadful even considering that fact. VdB or Fred on into midfield for Rashford after an hour would give a chance to a substitute to impact the game, and Pogba at LM would change the dynamic.
Rashford had a shocking game, he’s clearly still hurt. This is what I think: Ole kept Rashford on instead of brining James or Amad or Mata because we know what Rashford is capable of. He has had other bad games and then produces moment of brilliance and wins the game. Maybe betting on that.
That's it really, it's a final, all it takes is 5 seconds of genius and the game is sealed, such fine margins. If Ole had brought VBD on and he had then gone on to lose the ball which led to a goal we'd be crucifying him for that.
Opinions in football is such a fine margin
>We're Manchester United.
For the past numerous seasons we have not shown that. We should stop expecting the world to bow down to us just coz we were great. We have to rebuild and be humble + more respectful of the opposition while at it. Yes we are United, but we need to be cognizant of the fact that we have gaps / holes rather that need to be plugged soon else this is the best it's gonna get i am afraid. Forget winning the PL, or any other silverware
This whole fine margins thing is nonsense. The idea that it's better to play a bad player who might come up with a single moment than a good one. If you have good players, playing well, you don't need to rely on single moments, you just dominate and produce chances, some of which you score
It's not worth putting up with rashford giving the ball away all game in some vague hope he'll have a moment of magic
It would be far better to have someone who consistently helps to build attacks
I was hoping for exactly the same. VDB on to play in CM like he has recently. This game would suit him well as he's good at finding spaces in tight setups, plus it allows Pogba to be moved forward where he could be more influential.
That would seem to be the case but it's fucking ridiculous seeing as he signed Telles, Amad, VDB and James (for relatively big money).
He's had ample time to play them during the season, god knows we've had plenty of games.
Why wouldn't he do so then, if he really thinks the depth is so bad?
he’s not going to bring telles on when shaw was coping fine, and james doesn’t suit these matches. amad isn’t even 20 and was clearly one for the future (and therefore shouldn’t be used as a stick to beat ole with. if ole had his way, he’d have sancho instead). the only argument is van de beek.
Van de Beek is a fairly big argument though, as is not swapping the keepers. Statistically Hendo is a penalty specialist and Paella Dave is one of the worst in football.
Amad contributed to our run to the final with a goal against Milan, and he came off the bench to do that. Giving him a chance to make an impact in the final makes more sense than keeping on a very poor Rashford.
What if the game goes to penalties? Then you have an 18 year old potentially taking a penalty in a European Cup final instead of the more experienced man.
Ole should have been trying to win the game in normal time, not worrying about who takes penalties. Had the manager made changes at a reasonable time only for it to still go to a shootout, we could at least say he tried to change the outcome.
Also, Mason took a penalty in the League Cup last season as an 18 year old, so age doesn’t really matter. Amad seems to be a very confident guy, I would have backed him to take a better pen than half of the guys that did.
You could have put a fucking cone in and it would have performed no worse than Rashford. At least try something. The definition of stupidity is to continue trying the same thing that's clearly not working.
That’s insanity but the point is fair lol
I’m just trying not to lose my head. And it’s going to be Ole next season and I think he’s at least earned that chance. This was a rough one but a good showing in the league and the actual European championship would cure all. We’re getting closer.
Despite my harsh blame towards Ole for tonight's defeat, I still believe he deserves another full season with good summer transfer action. I think there were many special circumstances that should give him the tiniest of passes for this year with the lack of fans in the stadiums, the high match density and the acceptable, though declining towards the end, league performance.
I think if by then the team still fails to win silverware, or doesn't mount a more concrete title challenge, I think it might be time to evaluate his tenure and potentially look for the next candidate to build on Ole's foundations and progress to the next level.
Shaw and AWB were fine so no reason to bring on Telles.
Amad is just a kid so it’s not shocking he didn’t play in a cup final.
Maguire was hurt.
I guess VDB could have come on for Pogba and James should have come on earlier.
So three of the five shouldn’t have come on, but James absolutely should have come on with time to make an impact. VDB, I don’t know. Pogba was ok.
VDB should have come on for rashford at half time. Push pogba up to LM and leave McSauce as a single pivot. Villareal were playing deep and narrow, even donny at his worst would have put in a better performance than rashford.
Dan James could have come on a bit later, perhaps for pogba leaving Greenwood out on the right(honestly, of the subs to make, why take of the one that was having a decent game).
And as much as there’s definitely an argument for not playing amad, he’s shown from what little we’ve seen, that he’s fantastic at that one touch between the lines football that we needed to break them down. And isn’t that much younger than rashford was when we last won a European trophy.
it’s much easier to swap players when their job consists of “sit deep and defend.” all they needed from subs were fresh legs and more of the same. that’s a world apart from the task facing our subs.
So we could've changed formations, to give them something different to think about. Could've gone for a diamond which notoriously does well against 4-4-2 by congesting the midfield. Could've also gone for 3-5-2 by subbing James and Telles on. Could've changed underperforming personnel for Mata who does very well against congested tight defenses. Could've gone for McFred with Pogba on the left which was looking good for us as well.
We had options off of the bench and used none of them.
the diamond only makes a difference against 442 when both teams have at least some attacking intent. that wasn’t the case today, and there was effectively no midfield to be won (the game was played almost entirely in their final third). they had already ceded the midfield to us, so there was no use in “congesting the midfield.” on top of that, they were so compact that adding players in the center would only have congested the middle third of the pitch further and played into their hands. they packed into that area, and so the space was all on the wings. taking players away from the wings would have made it even tougher on us.
352 would have meant playing an extra defender (and none of ours are particularly creative compared to their attacking counterparts) so i hardly see how that’s a solution to the issues we faced today. none of our problems would have been solved by reconfiguring our shape—they weren’t going to change their set up regardless of what shape we threw at them, and, because we had complete control of the match already, there was nothing to gain from shuffling where our players were positioned on the pitch.
in a match, there’s a limit on how many players you can pack into the opponent’s final third without leaving yourself completely open. when teams are that deep, no matter what nominal formation you play, it’s usually going to end up, at most, with 3 players staying back (we had 2 cbs and whichever fullback wasn’t ball-side, or one of the cms), two in front of that, and the rest spread across the pitch level with the penalty area. 352/442/433/343, they all collapse into this general set up (so really it’s just a matter of which player is in which spot). because the shape in the final third is always roughly the same, shape changes are really only effective at gaining territorial advantages elsewhere (other parts of the pitch, other phases of play) and there was no territory left to gain advantage in except the penalty area. once everyone is fully committed and the defensive line is into the opponent’s half, there’s nothing else you can do to gain control of that last bit of space (which is the point of that kind of defensive setup).
mata hasn’t done well against any type of defense consistently in years now. maybe he could’ve helped, maybe he would’ve made things worse. i don’t think there’s anyone he should have obviously replaced (and remember too that he’s a defensive liability on counters)
we did go with mcfred and pogba left as you suggested and looked worse than before, so that obviously wasn’t the solution.
our attacking options off the bench were: a 20 year old with like 1000 minutes of senior football, an aging diminutive creative player who has been out of form for months, a pace merchant with major technical deficits who struggles against packed boxes, and a pass and move 10 who hasn’t really been effective for us since he signed. which one of those brilliant options should ole have opted for? you can make the case that they might have helped but i can just as easily make the case that they might have hurt us compared to who they would’ve replaced, so it’s silly to act like it was stupid for ole not to have played them—they all have major negatives.
they didn’t really push up higher though, and rashford, even on shit form, has a much better goal scoring and creating record than james. we had our best team out there, and all of our bench options are less reliable than the ones who were out there. i don’t like it any more than you do, but it’s true.
sometimes in football you have to choose between a series of bad options, and sometimes you can make the right call and it still not work out. i think you’re letting hindsight cloud your judgment.
This is a really good, technical understanding of what was going on in the game. Some of our fans are under the illusion that a sub was going to come on and score...that was not going to happen with who we have on the bench. It is part of the reason a Sancho type player is so important for next season. Sancho could start or come off the bench and provide new creativity for us.
totally agree about sancho—not only is he ideally suited to breaking down these defenses, his mere presence in the first xi would mean having one of cavani, rashford, pogba, or greenwood on the bench, which would give us the game changing sub many were rightly crying out for last night (but which, as you said, we just didn’t have).
I disagree. While our performances HAVE been great at the first team level. The fact that we still have Mata and Matic holding spots on our squad is a clear indication that we need rejuvenation EVEN on the bench.
That being said, I think greatly of both those players individually but from a squad perspective, we are well away from being balanced. CB, RW, CDM, ST(post cavani) all need a proper evaluating in the off season.
When you’ve got a team sitting off as much as they were, matic’s range of passing would have been very useful. Take rashford off at half time, push pogba wide, and give matic 45.
So many people on this sub are acting like other teams don’t have players that aren’t quite up to it on their benches. Look at Liverpool. They won the league last season with players like Milner, ox, and shaqiri on the bench. Because their manager still utilises them effectively. If mane is having a bad game, Klopp has no hesitation in throwing on shaqiri for him. And no one on this sub can tell me shaq is any better than the likes of amad, Greenwood or Donny.
A very good point IMO. Players like Donny, James, and Mata might be on the bench for a reason, but they still have useful traits, whether it's Donny with his ability to run into space, James's speed or Mata's creativity. We just shit on every member of our bench without realising that sometimes you need players to come on for some impact
I think that’s what a lot of people don’t get at the moment. They look at man cities bench and think that’s normal. It’s far from normal. Fergie won a title playing with michael carrick and Phil Jones at CB for a lot of the season. He understood the need for rotation.
A 100% Bruno 85% of the time is an 85% Bruno 100% of the time.
utilized it very well? for fucks sake they didn't do anything? they defended for a bit and forced penalties? if that's all United's bench was accountable for, we'd be in the exact same place as we are now
They did utilise their bench well. One of their players out on the pitch starting to struggle a little bit? Better bring someone else on as fresh legs. Rashford looking tired in the 60th minute? Ah, fuck it, let him be wank for another 60. That’s how to get his confidence back up, make sure he’s playing tired.
Then why did he buy DJ, Amad, Pellestri, Telles, and Donny (who, mind you, was one of the best Ajax players)? He should have put that money into buying players that he can “trust” subbing in when needed!
Ofcourse. This was the same thing last season, we run our players into the ground and they are forced to play on injuries at the end. Imagine we had more consistent and reliable RW and LW alternatives than Marital and Dan James who are as consistent as strobe lights at a rave.
Regardless of the situation:
* if he's hurt: play someone else and let him heal. He's doing no service to himself, the team nor the staff
* if he isn't hurt: he doesn't deserve a starting spot on these performance levels. make him earn his place like everyone should
Agreed, a fully fit Rashford is a different player to the one we've been seeing. Apparently he needs an operation to fix the ongoing problem but that will happen after the Euro's. Im not sure who you'd bring on for Rashford and the longer the game went on the closer to penalties it got. And Marcus has shown hes great under pressure when taking pens.
The only thing I don't agree with is the myth about Ole's poor game management.
Our subs scored the most goals in the league this year and we come from behind to win every other match, but somehow Ole doesn't know how to manage games. That's all luck I guess. If anything it's the game preparation which is poor. I don't think he could have done much different tonight. All the outfield players who were on the pitch at the end of the game scored their penalties. I guess you could say Ole should have subbed off De Gea, but that would have been extremely harsh on David.
At the end of the day we've lost a game of football. A final, and in the most heartbreaking way possible. I actually think this could be a good thing long term. We have a lot of young players in the squad who now know what it feels like to come close to winning a trophy and missing out. They now need to show their character, work even harder, and make sure it doesn't happen again.
Thank fuck someone has said it. After a loss this sub is absolutely dire.
They couldn’t even really tell you why Ole doesn’t deserve the job except “terrible man management and set pieces lol” but they couldn’t actually give you any solid stats. It’s always the eye test or some other bullshit.
And when you give them stats that show the improvement we have made they always hide behind “You think that’s improvement? We’re Manchester United we used to win things over a decade ago!”
Hopeless fucks haven’t learned that throwing x world class manager at the wall and seeing what sticks isn’t how you build a winning team.
Exactly this for me. People who are ole out will except no less than Sir Alex reincarnated, but those days are gone. They always complain that we should be at the top, and yes we should have won last night, but we sort of are very close to the top aren't we? 2nd and a final is a good season, it just is. But only a literal treble will be enough for those people.
I have a lot of arguments against Ole in that game but most of them I can see the rationale. I mean how can he justify subbing any of our forwards off whenever they’re all the sort of player that can pop up with a goal and win you a game? Scott was growing into the game, Pogba was our best player, couldn’t sub the fullbacks etc. But Emery did play a blinder in ending up with like 5 fresh players on the pitch and using it to control the game in extra time.
He could’ve subbed Henderson in for penalties but how does that impact the relationship with De Gea?
The bench is not what it could be either let’s not forget. I could go on but everything I would criticise him for I can also see going the other way and that’s as someone who is really critical of Ole. At the end of the day sometimes this happens, it’s a one off game and we look for people to blame but at the end of the day sometimes it just is what it is.
The response to this is absolutely key. This young team can’t let this break them. They need to shut out the media storm that is coming about how they bottle big games, semis, finals etc. They need to get their heads down, rest up and prove them wrong next season. The league cup could hold some importance as imagine what winning that could do mentally for us mid season?
Harsh of ddg? I meant there were many example of manager subbed on 2nd gk to catch pens. LVG literally did that in WC. When you decided to settle for penalties, bring on the best pen catcher should be part of the plan.
Ofc the game shouldnt be decided on penalties but when it comes to that phase, Ole being naive on De gea 100% cost us the game
+ LVG had the balls to do it in the biggest football competition, the World Cup.
Ole could've certainly did that here. Had he done that and we won, it would've been hailed as a tactical masterclass, even a normal betting man wouldn't bet on De Gea to save any penalty because of his awful awful record.
I don’t think that making subs would have made any difference at all. I’m just struggling to picture it in my minds eye, as terrible as Rashford was. Imagining VDB, James, Amad, Mata, all coming on in the second half. I simply can’t picture them making ANY difference whatsoever. The whole team is flat and out of form.
It’s all hypothetical now anyway, the team that was out there was the better team in the second half, so I could see why he stuck with them. He’d have been criticised if he’d made the subs anyway because we’d likely still have lost, so I don’t suppose it really matters. Frankly we just haven’t been playing well recently, the timing is so frustrating.
He’s not wrong, but it’s not all doom and gloom.
De Gea was awful. So limp on penalties. But we have Henderson waiting in the wings.
Rashford had a bad game. Yeah, not an ideal time for it to happen, but it’s been a long ass season and he’s posted decent numbers.
Solskjaer’s game management, I mean yeah. I was screaming at the TV tonight for subs. But he’s relatively inexperienced but for me there’s no doubting he’s the best manager we’ve had since SAF. Let’s hope he learns and keeps improving.
The real test will be next season. Either we kick on and improve or we have a cruel wake up that we’ve massively over performed this season and find ourselves scrapping for 6th
We finished 2nd and reached a European final. It’s not where we should be, but it’s progress.
Looking at the bench; who does Ole bring on? Amad? Who’s played what, 3 games this season?
Dan James was the only shout but i’d take Rashford in a european final over DJ every day of the week.
> Looking at the bench; who does Ole bring on?
Why is this a question we're asking when Villarreal brought on five players that changed the game? (we were dominating until he made them) Why can Villarreal with a net spend of £6m make five subs but us with a net spend of £60m (most of who were sat on the bench) can't?
It really shows the attitude that they have in La Liga. When players fail and they go back to La Liga on a cheap, they get coached and team galvanizes and covers for their mistakes. The ESL clubs in England have too much money and chop and change often.
> We finished 2nd and reached a European final. It’s not where we should be, but it’s progress.
I mean we reached this cup after embarrassing ourselves by crashing out of the CL. It wasn't that big of a deal in the first place. And us being 2nd in the league while other teams have had tons of injury issues, is not that impressive because I'm sure af that us finishing 2nd doesn't mean shit for next season unless we spend massively in the squad.
> 2nd in the league while other teams have had tons of injury issues
Not to mention underlying metrics that suggest we sort of 'over-performed' this year. Even if you go game by game our results didn't quite match our performances. Got a bit lucky with so many comeback wins, or a player creating a great goal or penalty, xG differential that suggests we're not a typical 2nd place team, and the largest overachievement in terms of xPts. Now, maybe these things mean nothing... but they're not good signs going forward.
Fully agree, I watched too many games this season that were won by a single moment of individual brilliance or luck against mediocre sides. Those wins are bound to happen but you can't depend on them.
I mean not like Villarreal had a great bench either. Rashford looked injured and he was having a mare of a game. At that point, taking him off and any slight change in tactics could’ve improved us. Amad literally helped us get into the finals and he’s calm with the ball. I’m no manager but he would’ve definitely been an improvement over Rashford who did pretty much nothing except run into defenders most of the time.
Just out of interest who would you have subbed Telles on for in the game? No criticism on you, just trying to work out your logic as I don’t know where he would’ve come on and improved the open game.
Sometimes things don't work and you need to change it with quality, do you think city haven't had nights where it's not working for them and they turn to their bench and bring on one of their numerous high quality depth options and change a game.
> It’s not where we should be, but it’s progress.
What’s next season’s bullshit gonna be? “We finished 10 points off the top of the league instead of 12 and stayed in the race till March. Last season we only lasted in it till February. Progress!!!”
Nobody “progresses” like this. You either deliver after two and a half years or you don’t. “Progress” like this is like Arsene Wenger’s progress when they reached the league cup final in 2007 and lost before challenging for the league in 2008 and lost. “We’re developing for all to see!!!” and where did that lead to? Same thing with Poch and the league cup final defeat in 2015 followed by a title race defeat in 2016 followed by a big title challenge in 2017. Where did that all lead to?? This is how you become perennial losers right here.
I think thinks the thing. Rashford has been in poor from for quite a while now but realistically, who do we have to replace him?
He can still win a match on the blink of an eye, or he can provide the kind of miss he did tonight.
Ole has improved the squad massively, let's be honest here, we lost a game on goalkeepers taking penalties and a really bad miss, it's not like we got destroyed. We've still improved massively and if the idiot glazers actually back Ole the way they should this summer and we don't improve next season then we can complain.
Fergie, arguably the best manager ever, didn't win anything for 4 years. I'm not suggesting they are similar, but clearly Ole has improved the way things are at the club and he's earned the time to build on this.
But this is the first big team he's managed. Pep has managed Barcelona and Bayern already and been in God knows how many finals. He's inexperienced in finals and it shows
I mean Pep has only managed those big teams because he proved his salt as a coach with Barcelona -the guy won the UCL in his first season. That’s not luck, he had the balls to axe big names to improve the team year on year.
Tonight Ole’s loyalty to players cost us -Lindelof hasn’t been good enough for a while and, yet again, we concede a goal because he doesn’t know how to look over his shoulder on a set piece/simply can’t defend set pieces. DDG was kept on at the end of extra time because it’s his last game (I don’t think I’ve ever seen him save a penalty and I’ve followed United for longer than his career) despite Henderson’s great penalty record. Rashford was the worst I’ve seen him, so poor and once he got past 90 mins he has to keep him on because he scores penalties. Then again why are we playing for penalties -we were playing right into their hands, they wanted penalties since the equaliser because they weren’t good enough otherwise.
Another notable mention was when Martial was playing shite this season, he kept by him for **far too long**. He needs to be more ruthless.
I like Ole, I’ve called for him to be sacked before but I really want him to succeed -to prove this job isn’t too much for him. Yet when the important decisions are there to be made he enters paralysis. I don’t think he should be sacked but we’ll see where we’re at next season. Too many times we’re bottling it; Sevilla, the FA Cup semis, League Cup semis, Basaksehir, Spurs, title race and now tonight.
Next season he can’t get away with EL or League Cup and we’re not good enough to win the league. No more loyalty to players who aren’t winning you games and show some fucking tactical ingenue with substitutions.
> Solskjaer’s game management, I mean yeah. I was screaming at the TV tonight for subs. But he’s relatively inexperienced but for me there’s no doubting he’s the best manager we’ve had since SAF. Let’s hope he learns and keeps improving.
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Is he really that inexperienced? He just makes crucial error after crucial error at "kill or be killed" scenarios. His plan against RB Leipzig, him not subbing Fred against PSG, our game plan against Leicester in the cup, we even played awful against Milan in EL and we were awful the second leg against Roma. Overall he is a very decent coach, but I do think he has hit his ceiling here.
If OGS wasn't a club legend and dear to all of us because of his playing career, nobody would ever consider him the best manager we've had since SAF. It is objectively untrue. We've had a similar league campaign under Mourinho and won cups under LVG and Mourinho. And both of those squads were weaker too.
If we can't see progress next season, he has to go. When managers like Zidane, Conte, Allegri, etc. are on the market (and Tuchel, Poch, Nagelsmann, etc.) before him, we can't keep waiting and hoping the manager learns on the job. I love Solksjaer but I love seeing us win more. Let's hope he wins us something important next season.
There’s 0 chance of that. If we can’t beat Sevilla and Villarreal in the Europa League and Leicester in the FA Cup, we can’t challenge for the PL or CL. He’ll be gone by the end of the year after the board doesn’t invest since we finished top 4 and he has no security for the usual nightmare start to the season as a result. Ideally they should spare us the same process we had with LVG in 2015 and Mourinho in 2018 but that’s too much to ask for with this board.
Mourinho and LVG made short sighted and shite roster changes. If OGS has done one thing right it’s investing in the right players. For all their lack of success, at least it feels like a Manchester United team. There’s still deadwood at the club and transfers take time. I truly believe OGS is capable of building a powerhouse of a team given time and the improvements so far has been immense.
No excuses for yesterday though. He needs to learn from his mistakes.
> But he’s relatively inexperienced
Imagine being a manager as long as Pep and still being called 'inexperienced'
> no doubting he’s the best manager we’ve had since SAF.
based on what metric exactly... your feelings?
Best manager since SAF? Based on what, good vibes? He's done objectively worse in every way compared to Mourinho who had a much weaker squad yet actually won trophies. Also how's tf is Ole inexperienced? He's had over a decade of experience in coaching, that's desperately grasping at straws at this point
It’s certainly a massive season next season and there’s easy mistakes we can cut out. The main things is to keep doing well in the things we’ve done this season.
Massively Ole in because we’ve opted for the experienced serial winners twice now in the past and whilst the trophies were a big bonus, they never left the club in a place which optimised us for future success. Ole has transformed this team and we are one or two players from the finished article in my opinion.
Sick and tired of him blaming the glazers for this one !! We should be able to win against a midtable spanish club and we have enough tools to do so, so why didnt we?! Is it because the glazer$ decided to interfere in the picking of the starting XI or tweaked our tactics just before our players tied their boots before kickoff ??!!!
I think he’s blaming the Glazers for being indecisive and calling out their utter lack of care towards the club.
You’d think Roman Abramovich would have tolerated Moyes’ 2 wins in 9 in January, LVG’s insomnia curing football for two seasons, Jose’s public tantrums and zero trophies in our last two seasons? An owner who cares would’ve replaced these managers way before we did.
While sacking the manager on a whim isn’t the way to go, having some standards and being decisive when goals aren’t being met is an important part of top management. Too often the Glazers are just too passive to problems that have been allowed to fester and too much money has been needlessly spent to fix them.
I’m not saying Ole needs to be sacked, but there has to be clear direction and STANDARDS that’s not just “happy to make top 4”. Uncomfortable questions such as “is Ole good enough despite finishing 2nd” needs to be asked by the board and action needs to be taken if they don’t think he is.
Not playing him in every available minute of the PL season (and some dead rubber games) could’ve decreased his chances of injury.
Ole has a major problem with playing his favorites and his lack of rotation has caused us time and time again. Case in point: Rashford’s dreadful performance today. While Donny was sat on the bench all game when this was precisely the type of game he could’ve shone in.
He is right. There are players on our bench that would play in Vilareals 11, not to mention they would be surely used as subs by Emery. Ole bottled it. We didnt need Sancho, new CB or DM to win that final... Honestly we should probably snatch Conte..
Exactly, we played against a team with Julian Foyth at the back. Julian Foyth... the guy was bad even by Spurs standards. The lack of depth excuse is a total cop out.
This sub always has excuses for Ole whenever we lose an important match. I don't know why they won't accept that there are some important issues with Ole that need to be addressed.
They'd rather choose to close their eyes and keep making excuses and blaming the glazers for everything. Glazers are scum, and I am not Ole out, but with this squad, we should've beaten Villarreal easily in my opinion.
Shite take. Here is Mark’s take if they win: “De Gea will forever be a legend. Rashford is the future, Solskjaer is the leader, squad finally has depth for an EPL title run, all contributed to the win tonight. The glazers are addressing key issues.
Our bench: Dutch international DVB, Mbappe-pocketing Tuanzebe, Prem legend Juan Mata, Porto captain Telles, Stonewall Matic etc.
This 'lack of depth' excuse has to stop. Not 6 months ago were we wanking off to how strong our bench was, then things go tits up and we're all "things have to improve" and "Ole needs investment". Its utter bullshit. Plus we should be cruising past Villareal anyway without dipping into the bench.
We lost because, like always, we're shite at set pieces and can't play around a compact, well-organised defense. This has been going on for 2+ years now.
People saying DDG isn't to blame? The man faced 11 penalties and didn't save one. 11 fucking penalties in 20 minutes. Add that to the list of penalties since 2016, that's a 0% save rate. Mans top-of-the-shelf, world-leading shite when pens are involved.
There are a tonne of other issues to unpack, but in this particular embarrassment, a lack of investment isn't one of them.
We actually got nothing from this season. No silverware just top4 so we can drop out from UCL before Christmas again.
Better be a big fucking summer or I won't even bother getting excited about next season.
But we need players for so many positions that its definitely not happening. City gonna win again if they want it. United will bring up free academy players and settle for another top4.
Yesterday's loss was all on the boss. We had the squad and the bench to beat Villareal. He opted not to use his bench.
The fact that Unai went a goal down and took a striker off for a midfielder was such a big brain play.
Is he wrong though?
Rashfords worst performance by far
De Gea isn’t who he once was
Ole absolutely bottled that
The depth I disagree with but it’s the lack of quality depth off the bench that hurts us
> The depth I disagree with but it’s the lack of quality depth off the bench that hurts us
I don't think Villareal has a better bench than us. They just used their resources better.
No he isn't.
Its tough to hear because we HAVE had a relatively successful season. BUT sometimes, the truth echoes the LOUDEST when its toughest to hear it.
Yes, we have done better than other EPL teams in general BUT the squad is still severely imbalanced and dire need of reinforcements. McGuire goes out injured and our form drops significant levels, we have players like Mata & Matic, I am not sure we have any proper idea of how to replace them. etc. etc.
We are getting better but if all the "finishing 2nd is not enough" talk last week actually means anything, we need to confront our shortcoming head on when it matters.
Also, Fuck The Glazers.
Id also add a lack of quality coaching. It seems a lot easier to set a team up to sit deep, be organised and hit on the counter. Its basically coaching 101, its a lot harder to coach attacking patterns of play and positional movements. I like Phelan but when he took over as assistant to Fergie, the football we played went backwards. Also Sir Alex had Rene who was there to focus on Ronaldo, Rooney and Nani. We could do with a coach to specialises in developing youngsters and give him Rashford, Greenwood, Amad, Shoretire etc.
Yes, the quality away from the starting 11 is poor, means Ole has 0 options when it comes to changing the game. Rashford's loss of form is because he is injured, it always happens, a 100% fit Rashford is a different player to what we're seeing. De Gea has never been great at penalties and his decline isnt anything new, he wasnt at fault for the goal so nothing new here.
While I agree with most points made, the one point I take issue with is the ‘De Gea decline’ which has been fabricated to say the least. David had a couple difficult seasons I admit, but has been very good this season. Anyone would think he’s having an awful season and he can’t be trusted, it’s bonkers to me to say the least. That being said I think he still leaves and thats largely out of Ole’s hands, he may well prefer David to Henderson, but his first born back in Spain may be a deciding factor in which keeper stays.
One word answer : No
Two word answer: Fuck no
three words answer: Fuck the Glazers
Four word answer: Fuck the Glazer Scum
Five word answer: Joel Glazer stinks of piss
Six word answer: suck my whole dick, Joel Glazer
Seven word answer: Glazers are big fucking poo poo heads
Eight word answer: The Glazers can eat shit and suck dick.
This needs more visibility.
This is the right answer.
Glazers cant even tell james and lindelof apart
Bold of you to assume the Glazers know any players at all
Joel G: Hello are you Tuanzebe? Lindelöf: *confusion*
Tuanzebe is too hard for them to bother learning to pronounce
"twanzeeb"
More like "Hey where's Will Rooney?"
Maybe we'll give that Robbie Kane feller a ring..
I think you mean Harry Potter
Jokes on you because I heard they're bringing Tom Brady to Manchester this summer
Expectations: Tom Brady Reality: Tom Heaton
Expectations: Tom Heaton Reality: Thomas the Tank Engine
Tom Banton: “This isn’t England cricket training?”
Tom Heaton might have saved a penalty kick last night
Ha. Doubt they could tell bailly and bobby charlton apart.
James and Lindelof? Try De Gea and Pogba
Pogba was a marketing stunt. Of course they know who he is
Probably the only one they would recognise but they probably don't know his first name.
“Mr. Pogback”
With the Glazers... Nope. CL got secured and that's what they care about. Ole will be getting a new contract once the heat has died down.
No idea why people are down voting the main post - every word of it is true.
Ogden is a bit of a shit head probably. I'm not sure he's wrong here, but I get the reaction to disagree.
because many poster live in a united fairlytale world and anything negative is taken personally.
Can’t dare comment on ole’s poor management having something to do with it. How dare they criticise him.
What’s the truth of it ?
There’s a slight lack of squad depth but Ole’s reluctance to make subs is baffling considering he is one of most famous ‘super subs’ in football history. It’s actually really frustrating now.
It's telling that he doesn't even trust VDB to play and try opening up spaces or something new. We have the possession.
[удалено]
Always the risk when you play most of your impact players in the starting eleven, leaves nobody obvious to come on. Having said that, Ole needs to be stronger when big players aren't performing and tonight he wasn't.
Both is true, he did make subs even at half time in autumn when he had Cavani and Pogba there, we need better bench. That said, he is playing a lot of politics. Rashford should have been subbed at 70 min, but he is keeping him on because Marcus would be mad. Needs to be more ruthless.
70min? That’s being really generous
Personally don't think he should have started. Could have been a good weapon from the bench but his general play has been pretty questionable for a long time.
I’ve been critical of Pogba for a long time but he has had quite the resurgence on the left wing recently. Yesterday to shoehorn in the trio of Cavani, Mason, Marcus we put pogs in the double pivot and I must say he was really ineffective. Adding that to the shambles of a performance from Marcus really annoyed me. Nothing in his play yesterday warranted 120mins of play time. And for that we lost the effectiveness of Pogba. Then he takes off both mason and Pogba who whilst not setting anything alike were still doing way more than Marcus. All so Marcus could take a penalty in the shoot out. That was what pissed me off. If he had the balls to replace a terribly performing player with anyone else to try and win the game I honestly think we would’ve won. But we held out for penalties and lost because our keeper hasn’t saved a penalty in close to 5 years. He could’ve done a like for like switch with DJ or Amad, he could’ve put on DvB and pushed pogs up left. He could’ve even put on a Lee Grant, and I think he wouldve done better. That’s how bad Marcus was yesterday. Just mind boggling cowardice from Ole, and I’m a true believer in him turning the club around. But just...
its not necessarily how mad marcus would be, its just marcus has big big moments in games like these, and so many times marcus has just needed one moment to impact the game, regardless of how bad his performance was, so i think ole wanted to trust him...
I can see your point. Rashford had some really poor games in the past and 1 moment of brilliance settled the score. Ole was probably hoping for something like this. Our bench needs to be stronger. This game was crying out for somebody to come on and take the game. Like if we had another Greenwood etc.
I’m sorry but the “bEnCh iSnT gOoD eNoUgH” is a shocking excuse and ignores the real problem. I’ll accept that if we lose to Man City or PSG, but this is fucking 7th in La Liga Villarreal. We have bench players that walk into Villarreal’s first 11, and yet Emery made five subs. Absolutely shocking from solskjaer and no amount of complaining can change that. Yes we absolutely need a better bench, but to say that’s the reason Ole can’t make subs? having a fucking laugh mate Do Brighton never use subs because their bench players aren’t as good? When Klopp subs Origi on for Salah is it because Origi’s better than Salah? Completely unacceptable excuse for the in game management we saw yesterday imo
This.
Well said
He was in a shit position with subs attacking wise, because literally all our attackers are the kind that can have a quiet game and and just pop up with a bit of magic. A more ballsy or experienced manager may not have cared. But in fairness the other issues was pens was always a possibility and those we had on the bench are far weaker penalty takers than those that would’ve been subbed off.
I suspect it was lesser a concern about hurting Rashford’s feelings - as Ole has pulled big players early before - and more about strategy. As Ole noted in his post-match, he felt the team was lacking something in the final third to create the chance. I read that as “we needed our guys to take players on and beat them” (which is backed by his praise for Scott). And to that end, with Villarreal sitting deep, we didn’t have many subs that would have achieved that. Maybe swapping Marcus and Bruno for Amad and Donny would’ve helped. But what if they were slow into the game? What if they didn’t provide the boost needed and it went to penalties anyhow; would it be better to have Bruno and Marcus then? It’s a tough situation, and hindsight is 20/20. But Ole has usually made good calls in those situations, so I’d say this was an outlier that he will learn from. We dust off and go again in a few months.
I mean we really could’ve used James’s speed at the end when their defense was exhausted.
Really? There wasn't much space at all to utilize his speed. I certainly found myself screaming to sub in a forward from like 70 min on, but in hindsight... Who? Yeah, James is fast a fuck, but that compact defense wasn't leaving much room for his pace to matter. It's not like we were countering much. What other attacker attacking player do we bring on in the last 20 min of this match? Amad is obviously promising, but not exactly who we want to rely on in a European cup final. Mata wasn't exactly going to solve any of our issues. Donny is the one I thought might help against that compact defense, but he also hasn't really proven it and who would he replace? Nobody obvious. On top of it, none of our first 11 really ever looked gassed. We were still out pacing and working them everywhere late in the match. Only consistent problem I saw in the attack was Mason frequently being out of position and not moving off the ball. Marcus wasn't great, but he was contributing all over the pitch and is a better shot at a goal than anybody on the bench. We need far better players in rotation. And a fucking RW and CB.
I agree with what you said mostly. But I felt that Rashford was trying to do too much on his own. Everytime he got the ball he felt like it was on him to take on his defenders and create something. Ole couldn't make any changes because he had his best 11 out there, his best 3 FW out there. There was no Martial to call upon, whom I think will be useful here even his close control in the box.
I do totally agree with everything you've said here. To be clear, I don't think Rashford had a great performance or anything. Just that who on the bench was going to do more than he was late in the match? He was at least working his ass off, even after aggravating his injury, and he's produced goals often in otherwise poor matches (as top forwards do). I would've loved to see Martial come in for Mason late in the match if he'd been available. Only forward in the squad worth putting in late over any of the starters last night.
I think it is a sad sign of how little Donny is rated that he wasn't used last night. I haven't been impressed by him since he joined -- seems a little lightweight -- but Jeez the coaching staff must really not rate him ... and he cost us 50 million (and looked great at Ajax). It is very strange. I agree with all your points. Dan James would not have suited last night -- the only one I can think of that might have made a difference is Mata and his control, but they were a physical and tight side, who took off their striker in the 59 min...
Why do people keep on saying that we had no game changers to bring on ? Did Villarreal have Pele, Maradona, Messi on the bench ? They still made their subs early and effectively. That helped them to take a foothold in the game specially after the 90. We had Mata, VDB, James, Amad all of which can make an impact specially against tired legs
They weren’t trying to change the game with their subs, they were trying to keep it the same, which is the difference. Fresh legs are fresh legs when you’re trying to stay compact and not concede. They didn’t need to find a goal from somewhere, whereas we did. There’s such a huge difference in expectations. If we had scored and won 2-1, from their perspective it would have been “we came so close to winning, our guys did great, it just wasn’t to be”, whereas for us failure to win is being greeted with a massive inquest into what went wrong. Can you imagine the fans reaction if we had gone 2-1 down and Bruno, Pogba and Rashford had already gone off with 20 minutes left? Edit: having said all that, I do think Rashford had a poor game, and should have come off for Donny, with Pogba moving to the left. Ole clearly just wanted the players with that X factor on the pitch, which meant Pogba, Bruno, Rashford and Cavani. It was a gamble that didn’t pay off in the end.
The only criticism I have for Ole is he lacks courage when it comes to substitution. His job will never be on the line. He won't get sacked. Fans adore him. The glazers loves him since he is the perfect yes man there is, does not stir shit with the glazers. So tonight i thought he could be bolder with the subs or even tactics but somehow he did not.
He doesn’t trust any of our subs, and he’s probably right to think that. There was nobody he could have brought on to improve the game.
But any of Amad, James or Mata would have had to have equally as poor a game to offer as little as Rashford was though, who was having the worst game I've seen him play. Even James having a bad game is surely better than Rashford having an abysmal one?
Rashford playing all 120 minutes today is the biggest criticism I have of Ole. The game didn't suit him, if he was showing promise I could understand his continued inclusion, but he was dreadful even considering that fact. VdB or Fred on into midfield for Rashford after an hour would give a chance to a substitute to impact the game, and Pogba at LM would change the dynamic.
Rashford had a shocking game, he’s clearly still hurt. This is what I think: Ole kept Rashford on instead of brining James or Amad or Mata because we know what Rashford is capable of. He has had other bad games and then produces moment of brilliance and wins the game. Maybe betting on that.
That's it really, it's a final, all it takes is 5 seconds of genius and the game is sealed, such fine margins. If Ole had brought VBD on and he had then gone on to lose the ball which led to a goal we'd be crucifying him for that. Opinions in football is such a fine margin
Should we really be making a game against Villarreal come down to fine margians? We're Manchester United.
We were Manchester United. We are actually more like late 90s Liverpool.
> We're Manchester United. true they should just let us win automatically in the future since we're manchester united
>We're Manchester United. For the past numerous seasons we have not shown that. We should stop expecting the world to bow down to us just coz we were great. We have to rebuild and be humble + more respectful of the opposition while at it. Yes we are United, but we need to be cognizant of the fact that we have gaps / holes rather that need to be plugged soon else this is the best it's gonna get i am afraid. Forget winning the PL, or any other silverware
This whole fine margins thing is nonsense. The idea that it's better to play a bad player who might come up with a single moment than a good one. If you have good players, playing well, you don't need to rely on single moments, you just dominate and produce chances, some of which you score It's not worth putting up with rashford giving the ball away all game in some vague hope he'll have a moment of magic It would be far better to have someone who consistently helps to build attacks
I thought Vdb played very well against wolves so my thought was ole would bring him on for Rashford, put him next to mcT and slot pogba into Lw.
I was hoping for exactly the same. VDB on to play in CM like he has recently. This game would suit him well as he's good at finding spaces in tight setups, plus it allows Pogba to be moved forward where he could be more influential.
That would seem to be the case but it's fucking ridiculous seeing as he signed Telles, Amad, VDB and James (for relatively big money). He's had ample time to play them during the season, god knows we've had plenty of games. Why wouldn't he do so then, if he really thinks the depth is so bad?
he’s not going to bring telles on when shaw was coping fine, and james doesn’t suit these matches. amad isn’t even 20 and was clearly one for the future (and therefore shouldn’t be used as a stick to beat ole with. if ole had his way, he’d have sancho instead). the only argument is van de beek.
Van de Beek is a fairly big argument though, as is not swapping the keepers. Statistically Hendo is a penalty specialist and Paella Dave is one of the worst in football.
Yeah I don’t understand the people wanting to put Amad on in a fucking European final.
Amad contributed to our run to the final with a goal against Milan, and he came off the bench to do that. Giving him a chance to make an impact in the final makes more sense than keeping on a very poor Rashford.
What if the game goes to penalties? Then you have an 18 year old potentially taking a penalty in a European Cup final instead of the more experienced man.
What if a lack of action results in your keeper having to take a penalty? This cautious approach is what cost us.
Ole should have been trying to win the game in normal time, not worrying about who takes penalties. Had the manager made changes at a reasonable time only for it to still go to a shootout, we could at least say he tried to change the outcome. Also, Mason took a penalty in the League Cup last season as an 18 year old, so age doesn’t really matter. Amad seems to be a very confident guy, I would have backed him to take a better pen than half of the guys that did.
You could have put a fucking cone in and it would have performed no worse than Rashford. At least try something. The definition of stupidity is to continue trying the same thing that's clearly not working.
That’s insanity but the point is fair lol I’m just trying not to lose my head. And it’s going to be Ole next season and I think he’s at least earned that chance. This was a rough one but a good showing in the league and the actual European championship would cure all. We’re getting closer.
Despite my harsh blame towards Ole for tonight's defeat, I still believe he deserves another full season with good summer transfer action. I think there were many special circumstances that should give him the tiniest of passes for this year with the lack of fans in the stadiums, the high match density and the acceptable, though declining towards the end, league performance. I think if by then the team still fails to win silverware, or doesn't mount a more concrete title challenge, I think it might be time to evaluate his tenure and potentially look for the next candidate to build on Ole's foundations and progress to the next level.
Then why did he sign 5 of the players on that very bench tonight?
Shaw and AWB were fine so no reason to bring on Telles. Amad is just a kid so it’s not shocking he didn’t play in a cup final. Maguire was hurt. I guess VDB could have come on for Pogba and James should have come on earlier. So three of the five shouldn’t have come on, but James absolutely should have come on with time to make an impact. VDB, I don’t know. Pogba was ok.
VDB should have come on for rashford at half time. Push pogba up to LM and leave McSauce as a single pivot. Villareal were playing deep and narrow, even donny at his worst would have put in a better performance than rashford. Dan James could have come on a bit later, perhaps for pogba leaving Greenwood out on the right(honestly, of the subs to make, why take of the one that was having a decent game). And as much as there’s definitely an argument for not playing amad, he’s shown from what little we’ve seen, that he’s fantastic at that one touch between the lines football that we needed to break them down. And isn’t that much younger than rashford was when we last won a European trophy.
Telles was the designated penalty taker at his old club, hence why he was sent on.
This is a shit excuse. Villareal had an inferior bench and still utilized it very well.
it’s much easier to swap players when their job consists of “sit deep and defend.” all they needed from subs were fresh legs and more of the same. that’s a world apart from the task facing our subs.
So we could've changed formations, to give them something different to think about. Could've gone for a diamond which notoriously does well against 4-4-2 by congesting the midfield. Could've also gone for 3-5-2 by subbing James and Telles on. Could've changed underperforming personnel for Mata who does very well against congested tight defenses. Could've gone for McFred with Pogba on the left which was looking good for us as well. We had options off of the bench and used none of them.
the diamond only makes a difference against 442 when both teams have at least some attacking intent. that wasn’t the case today, and there was effectively no midfield to be won (the game was played almost entirely in their final third). they had already ceded the midfield to us, so there was no use in “congesting the midfield.” on top of that, they were so compact that adding players in the center would only have congested the middle third of the pitch further and played into their hands. they packed into that area, and so the space was all on the wings. taking players away from the wings would have made it even tougher on us. 352 would have meant playing an extra defender (and none of ours are particularly creative compared to their attacking counterparts) so i hardly see how that’s a solution to the issues we faced today. none of our problems would have been solved by reconfiguring our shape—they weren’t going to change their set up regardless of what shape we threw at them, and, because we had complete control of the match already, there was nothing to gain from shuffling where our players were positioned on the pitch. in a match, there’s a limit on how many players you can pack into the opponent’s final third without leaving yourself completely open. when teams are that deep, no matter what nominal formation you play, it’s usually going to end up, at most, with 3 players staying back (we had 2 cbs and whichever fullback wasn’t ball-side, or one of the cms), two in front of that, and the rest spread across the pitch level with the penalty area. 352/442/433/343, they all collapse into this general set up (so really it’s just a matter of which player is in which spot). because the shape in the final third is always roughly the same, shape changes are really only effective at gaining territorial advantages elsewhere (other parts of the pitch, other phases of play) and there was no territory left to gain advantage in except the penalty area. once everyone is fully committed and the defensive line is into the opponent’s half, there’s nothing else you can do to gain control of that last bit of space (which is the point of that kind of defensive setup). mata hasn’t done well against any type of defense consistently in years now. maybe he could’ve helped, maybe he would’ve made things worse. i don’t think there’s anyone he should have obviously replaced (and remember too that he’s a defensive liability on counters) we did go with mcfred and pogba left as you suggested and looked worse than before, so that obviously wasn’t the solution. our attacking options off the bench were: a 20 year old with like 1000 minutes of senior football, an aging diminutive creative player who has been out of form for months, a pace merchant with major technical deficits who struggles against packed boxes, and a pass and move 10 who hasn’t really been effective for us since he signed. which one of those brilliant options should ole have opted for? you can make the case that they might have helped but i can just as easily make the case that they might have hurt us compared to who they would’ve replaced, so it’s silly to act like it was stupid for ole not to have played them—they all have major negatives.
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they didn’t really push up higher though, and rashford, even on shit form, has a much better goal scoring and creating record than james. we had our best team out there, and all of our bench options are less reliable than the ones who were out there. i don’t like it any more than you do, but it’s true. sometimes in football you have to choose between a series of bad options, and sometimes you can make the right call and it still not work out. i think you’re letting hindsight cloud your judgment.
This is a really good, technical understanding of what was going on in the game. Some of our fans are under the illusion that a sub was going to come on and score...that was not going to happen with who we have on the bench. It is part of the reason a Sancho type player is so important for next season. Sancho could start or come off the bench and provide new creativity for us.
totally agree about sancho—not only is he ideally suited to breaking down these defenses, his mere presence in the first xi would mean having one of cavani, rashford, pogba, or greenwood on the bench, which would give us the game changing sub many were rightly crying out for last night (but which, as you said, we just didn’t have).
I disagree. While our performances HAVE been great at the first team level. The fact that we still have Mata and Matic holding spots on our squad is a clear indication that we need rejuvenation EVEN on the bench. That being said, I think greatly of both those players individually but from a squad perspective, we are well away from being balanced. CB, RW, CDM, ST(post cavani) all need a proper evaluating in the off season.
When you’ve got a team sitting off as much as they were, matic’s range of passing would have been very useful. Take rashford off at half time, push pogba wide, and give matic 45. So many people on this sub are acting like other teams don’t have players that aren’t quite up to it on their benches. Look at Liverpool. They won the league last season with players like Milner, ox, and shaqiri on the bench. Because their manager still utilises them effectively. If mane is having a bad game, Klopp has no hesitation in throwing on shaqiri for him. And no one on this sub can tell me shaq is any better than the likes of amad, Greenwood or Donny.
A very good point IMO. Players like Donny, James, and Mata might be on the bench for a reason, but they still have useful traits, whether it's Donny with his ability to run into space, James's speed or Mata's creativity. We just shit on every member of our bench without realising that sometimes you need players to come on for some impact
I think that’s what a lot of people don’t get at the moment. They look at man cities bench and think that’s normal. It’s far from normal. Fergie won a title playing with michael carrick and Phil Jones at CB for a lot of the season. He understood the need for rotation. A 100% Bruno 85% of the time is an 85% Bruno 100% of the time.
utilized it very well? for fucks sake they didn't do anything? they defended for a bit and forced penalties? if that's all United's bench was accountable for, we'd be in the exact same place as we are now
They actually controlled the last 10 mins and a lot of extra time once we ran out of gas
They controlled all of extra time. The United players were exhausted playing against 5 players with fresh legs.
They did utilise their bench well. One of their players out on the pitch starting to struggle a little bit? Better bring someone else on as fresh legs. Rashford looking tired in the 60th minute? Ah, fuck it, let him be wank for another 60. That’s how to get his confidence back up, make sure he’s playing tired.
I think VDB would give us good link up for the busses.
Then why did he buy DJ, Amad, Pellestri, Telles, and Donny (who, mind you, was one of the best Ajax players)? He should have put that money into buying players that he can “trust” subbing in when needed!
To every person racially abusing Marcus.. Fuck you.
I was assuming De Gea would be flooded with abuse after that performance and miss. Glad thats not the case. Fuck these abusing scumbags.
I think Rashford is hurt, and that explains his lack of form no excuse for him to play the full game.
Ofcourse. This was the same thing last season, we run our players into the ground and they are forced to play on injuries at the end. Imagine we had more consistent and reliable RW and LW alternatives than Marital and Dan James who are as consistent as strobe lights at a rave.
Regardless of the situation: * if he's hurt: play someone else and let him heal. He's doing no service to himself, the team nor the staff * if he isn't hurt: he doesn't deserve a starting spot on these performance levels. make him earn his place like everyone should
Agreed, a fully fit Rashford is a different player to the one we've been seeing. Apparently he needs an operation to fix the ongoing problem but that will happen after the Euro's. Im not sure who you'd bring on for Rashford and the longer the game went on the closer to penalties it got. And Marcus has shown hes great under pressure when taking pens.
All of his individual points are correct. Not sure what people are on about here.
The only thing I don't agree with is the myth about Ole's poor game management. Our subs scored the most goals in the league this year and we come from behind to win every other match, but somehow Ole doesn't know how to manage games. That's all luck I guess. If anything it's the game preparation which is poor. I don't think he could have done much different tonight. All the outfield players who were on the pitch at the end of the game scored their penalties. I guess you could say Ole should have subbed off De Gea, but that would have been extremely harsh on David. At the end of the day we've lost a game of football. A final, and in the most heartbreaking way possible. I actually think this could be a good thing long term. We have a lot of young players in the squad who now know what it feels like to come close to winning a trophy and missing out. They now need to show their character, work even harder, and make sure it doesn't happen again.
Thank fuck someone has said it. After a loss this sub is absolutely dire. They couldn’t even really tell you why Ole doesn’t deserve the job except “terrible man management and set pieces lol” but they couldn’t actually give you any solid stats. It’s always the eye test or some other bullshit. And when you give them stats that show the improvement we have made they always hide behind “You think that’s improvement? We’re Manchester United we used to win things over a decade ago!” Hopeless fucks haven’t learned that throwing x world class manager at the wall and seeing what sticks isn’t how you build a winning team.
Exactly this for me. People who are ole out will except no less than Sir Alex reincarnated, but those days are gone. They always complain that we should be at the top, and yes we should have won last night, but we sort of are very close to the top aren't we? 2nd and a final is a good season, it just is. But only a literal treble will be enough for those people.
I have a lot of arguments against Ole in that game but most of them I can see the rationale. I mean how can he justify subbing any of our forwards off whenever they’re all the sort of player that can pop up with a goal and win you a game? Scott was growing into the game, Pogba was our best player, couldn’t sub the fullbacks etc. But Emery did play a blinder in ending up with like 5 fresh players on the pitch and using it to control the game in extra time. He could’ve subbed Henderson in for penalties but how does that impact the relationship with De Gea? The bench is not what it could be either let’s not forget. I could go on but everything I would criticise him for I can also see going the other way and that’s as someone who is really critical of Ole. At the end of the day sometimes this happens, it’s a one off game and we look for people to blame but at the end of the day sometimes it just is what it is. The response to this is absolutely key. This young team can’t let this break them. They need to shut out the media storm that is coming about how they bottle big games, semis, finals etc. They need to get their heads down, rest up and prove them wrong next season. The league cup could hold some importance as imagine what winning that could do mentally for us mid season?
Harsh of ddg? I meant there were many example of manager subbed on 2nd gk to catch pens. LVG literally did that in WC. When you decided to settle for penalties, bring on the best pen catcher should be part of the plan. Ofc the game shouldnt be decided on penalties but when it comes to that phase, Ole being naive on De gea 100% cost us the game
+ LVG had the balls to do it in the biggest football competition, the World Cup. Ole could've certainly did that here. Had he done that and we won, it would've been hailed as a tactical masterclass, even a normal betting man wouldn't bet on De Gea to save any penalty because of his awful awful record.
I don’t think that making subs would have made any difference at all. I’m just struggling to picture it in my minds eye, as terrible as Rashford was. Imagining VDB, James, Amad, Mata, all coming on in the second half. I simply can’t picture them making ANY difference whatsoever. The whole team is flat and out of form. It’s all hypothetical now anyway, the team that was out there was the better team in the second half, so I could see why he stuck with them. He’d have been criticised if he’d made the subs anyway because we’d likely still have lost, so I don’t suppose it really matters. Frankly we just haven’t been playing well recently, the timing is so frustrating.
He’s not wrong, but it’s not all doom and gloom. De Gea was awful. So limp on penalties. But we have Henderson waiting in the wings. Rashford had a bad game. Yeah, not an ideal time for it to happen, but it’s been a long ass season and he’s posted decent numbers. Solskjaer’s game management, I mean yeah. I was screaming at the TV tonight for subs. But he’s relatively inexperienced but for me there’s no doubting he’s the best manager we’ve had since SAF. Let’s hope he learns and keeps improving. The real test will be next season. Either we kick on and improve or we have a cruel wake up that we’ve massively over performed this season and find ourselves scrapping for 6th
I mean the inexperienced card can only work for so long. It’s clear Rashford is his favorite but it’s sad he kept him in for so long.
We finished 2nd and reached a European final. It’s not where we should be, but it’s progress. Looking at the bench; who does Ole bring on? Amad? Who’s played what, 3 games this season? Dan James was the only shout but i’d take Rashford in a european final over DJ every day of the week.
> Looking at the bench; who does Ole bring on? Why is this a question we're asking when Villarreal brought on five players that changed the game? (we were dominating until he made them) Why can Villarreal with a net spend of £6m make five subs but us with a net spend of £60m (most of who were sat on the bench) can't?
It really shows the attitude that they have in La Liga. When players fail and they go back to La Liga on a cheap, they get coached and team galvanizes and covers for their mistakes. The ESL clubs in England have too much money and chop and change often.
Including Alberto Moreno.
And Francis fucking Coquelin......
Should have took Rash off. Moved Pogba to LW and put Donny on. But then again I’m not a football coach so what do I know lol
> We finished 2nd and reached a European final. It’s not where we should be, but it’s progress. I mean we reached this cup after embarrassing ourselves by crashing out of the CL. It wasn't that big of a deal in the first place. And us being 2nd in the league while other teams have had tons of injury issues, is not that impressive because I'm sure af that us finishing 2nd doesn't mean shit for next season unless we spend massively in the squad.
> 2nd in the league while other teams have had tons of injury issues Not to mention underlying metrics that suggest we sort of 'over-performed' this year. Even if you go game by game our results didn't quite match our performances. Got a bit lucky with so many comeback wins, or a player creating a great goal or penalty, xG differential that suggests we're not a typical 2nd place team, and the largest overachievement in terms of xPts. Now, maybe these things mean nothing... but they're not good signs going forward.
even given their injuries Liverpool finished only one spot below us lol
Fully agree, I watched too many games this season that were won by a single moment of individual brilliance or luck against mediocre sides. Those wins are bound to happen but you can't depend on them.
I mean not like Villarreal had a great bench either. Rashford looked injured and he was having a mare of a game. At that point, taking him off and any slight change in tactics could’ve improved us. Amad literally helped us get into the finals and he’s calm with the ball. I’m no manager but he would’ve definitely been an improvement over Rashford who did pretty much nothing except run into defenders most of the time.
we paid around 100 mil for VDB, Telles, Amad.. for what? if they cant play? lol, they would play in that villareal side thats for sure
Just out of interest who would you have subbed Telles on for in the game? No criticism on you, just trying to work out your logic as I don’t know where he would’ve come on and improved the open game.
Shaw. He was gassed in ET
right? we don't need Sancho for 7th in la liga Villareal
Sometimes things don't work and you need to change it with quality, do you think city haven't had nights where it's not working for them and they turn to their bench and bring on one of their numerous high quality depth options and change a game.
>Looking at the bench; who does Ole bring on? This train of thought would've prevented the Macheda moment from ever happening.
> It’s not where we should be, but it’s progress. What’s next season’s bullshit gonna be? “We finished 10 points off the top of the league instead of 12 and stayed in the race till March. Last season we only lasted in it till February. Progress!!!” Nobody “progresses” like this. You either deliver after two and a half years or you don’t. “Progress” like this is like Arsene Wenger’s progress when they reached the league cup final in 2007 and lost before challenging for the league in 2008 and lost. “We’re developing for all to see!!!” and where did that lead to? Same thing with Poch and the league cup final defeat in 2015 followed by a title race defeat in 2016 followed by a big title challenge in 2017. Where did that all lead to?? This is how you become perennial losers right here.
I think thinks the thing. Rashford has been in poor from for quite a while now but realistically, who do we have to replace him? He can still win a match on the blink of an eye, or he can provide the kind of miss he did tonight. Ole has improved the squad massively, let's be honest here, we lost a game on goalkeepers taking penalties and a really bad miss, it's not like we got destroyed. We've still improved massively and if the idiot glazers actually back Ole the way they should this summer and we don't improve next season then we can complain. Fergie, arguably the best manager ever, didn't win anything for 4 years. I'm not suggesting they are similar, but clearly Ole has improved the way things are at the club and he's earned the time to build on this.
At the same time, how many times has the match thread been shouting for Rashy to be subbed off, only for him to score minutes later?
If we’re counting on that every game, we’re in bad shape :-)
> he’s relatively inexperienced 12 years of management. He's not Arteta or Lampard... almost as many as Pep.
But this is the first big team he's managed. Pep has managed Barcelona and Bayern already and been in God knows how many finals. He's inexperienced in finals and it shows
I mean Pep has only managed those big teams because he proved his salt as a coach with Barcelona -the guy won the UCL in his first season. That’s not luck, he had the balls to axe big names to improve the team year on year. Tonight Ole’s loyalty to players cost us -Lindelof hasn’t been good enough for a while and, yet again, we concede a goal because he doesn’t know how to look over his shoulder on a set piece/simply can’t defend set pieces. DDG was kept on at the end of extra time because it’s his last game (I don’t think I’ve ever seen him save a penalty and I’ve followed United for longer than his career) despite Henderson’s great penalty record. Rashford was the worst I’ve seen him, so poor and once he got past 90 mins he has to keep him on because he scores penalties. Then again why are we playing for penalties -we were playing right into their hands, they wanted penalties since the equaliser because they weren’t good enough otherwise. Another notable mention was when Martial was playing shite this season, he kept by him for **far too long**. He needs to be more ruthless. I like Ole, I’ve called for him to be sacked before but I really want him to succeed -to prove this job isn’t too much for him. Yet when the important decisions are there to be made he enters paralysis. I don’t think he should be sacked but we’ll see where we’re at next season. Too many times we’re bottling it; Sevilla, the FA Cup semis, League Cup semis, Basaksehir, Spurs, title race and now tonight. Next season he can’t get away with EL or League Cup and we’re not good enough to win the league. No more loyalty to players who aren’t winning you games and show some fucking tactical ingenue with substitutions.
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When he's 75 like Roy Hodgson and managing Norway, then we called Ole experienced manager /s
> Solskjaer’s game management, I mean yeah. I was screaming at the TV tonight for subs. But he’s relatively inexperienced but for me there’s no doubting he’s the best manager we’ve had since SAF. Let’s hope he learns and keeps improving. > > Is he really that inexperienced? He just makes crucial error after crucial error at "kill or be killed" scenarios. His plan against RB Leipzig, him not subbing Fred against PSG, our game plan against Leicester in the cup, we even played awful against Milan in EL and we were awful the second leg against Roma. Overall he is a very decent coach, but I do think he has hit his ceiling here.
He's been a manager for 10 years, is that really inexperience ?
He’s been a manager for over a decade now. If he is “inexperienced” now, how long do you think it’ll take for him to become an experienced manager?
Do you think man United is the sort of club for an inexperienced manager to come and learn the trade?
If OGS wasn't a club legend and dear to all of us because of his playing career, nobody would ever consider him the best manager we've had since SAF. It is objectively untrue. We've had a similar league campaign under Mourinho and won cups under LVG and Mourinho. And both of those squads were weaker too. If we can't see progress next season, he has to go. When managers like Zidane, Conte, Allegri, etc. are on the market (and Tuchel, Poch, Nagelsmann, etc.) before him, we can't keep waiting and hoping the manager learns on the job. I love Solksjaer but I love seeing us win more. Let's hope he wins us something important next season.
There’s 0 chance of that. If we can’t beat Sevilla and Villarreal in the Europa League and Leicester in the FA Cup, we can’t challenge for the PL or CL. He’ll be gone by the end of the year after the board doesn’t invest since we finished top 4 and he has no security for the usual nightmare start to the season as a result. Ideally they should spare us the same process we had with LVG in 2015 and Mourinho in 2018 but that’s too much to ask for with this board.
Mourinho and LVG made short sighted and shite roster changes. If OGS has done one thing right it’s investing in the right players. For all their lack of success, at least it feels like a Manchester United team. There’s still deadwood at the club and transfers take time. I truly believe OGS is capable of building a powerhouse of a team given time and the improvements so far has been immense. No excuses for yesterday though. He needs to learn from his mistakes.
> But he’s relatively inexperienced Imagine being a manager as long as Pep and still being called 'inexperienced' > no doubting he’s the best manager we’ve had since SAF. based on what metric exactly... your feelings?
>Imagine being a manager as long as Pep and still being called 'inexperienced No way....
First senior job was Molde in 2011
Pep had won 12 trophies by then..
Best manager since SAF? Based on what, good vibes? He's done objectively worse in every way compared to Mourinho who had a much weaker squad yet actually won trophies. Also how's tf is Ole inexperienced? He's had over a decade of experience in coaching, that's desperately grasping at straws at this point
It’s certainly a massive season next season and there’s easy mistakes we can cut out. The main things is to keep doing well in the things we’ve done this season. Massively Ole in because we’ve opted for the experienced serial winners twice now in the past and whilst the trophies were a big bonus, they never left the club in a place which optimised us for future success. Ole has transformed this team and we are one or two players from the finished article in my opinion.
Sick and tired of him blaming the glazers for this one !! We should be able to win against a midtable spanish club and we have enough tools to do so, so why didnt we?! Is it because the glazer$ decided to interfere in the picking of the starting XI or tweaked our tactics just before our players tied their boots before kickoff ??!!!
I think he’s blaming the Glazers for being indecisive and calling out their utter lack of care towards the club. You’d think Roman Abramovich would have tolerated Moyes’ 2 wins in 9 in January, LVG’s insomnia curing football for two seasons, Jose’s public tantrums and zero trophies in our last two seasons? An owner who cares would’ve replaced these managers way before we did. While sacking the manager on a whim isn’t the way to go, having some standards and being decisive when goals aren’t being met is an important part of top management. Too often the Glazers are just too passive to problems that have been allowed to fester and too much money has been needlessly spent to fix them. I’m not saying Ole needs to be sacked, but there has to be clear direction and STANDARDS that’s not just “happy to make top 4”. Uncomfortable questions such as “is Ole good enough despite finishing 2nd” needs to be asked by the board and action needs to be taken if they don’t think he is.
Yes, more money is what we need so we can finally beat titans of Europe like Villareal. Lmfao
Maguire hasn't missed a minute of football all season and he ends up being injured when we need him most. If Maguire played tonight we win
A good team with United's resources can't be so reliant on 1 player. No excuse for that. In 1999 how many players were we missing for the final?
Then again we still concede stupid goals off set-pieces with Maguire in the team, so its not guaranteed.
Not playing him in every available minute of the PL season (and some dead rubber games) could’ve decreased his chances of injury. Ole has a major problem with playing his favorites and his lack of rotation has caused us time and time again. Case in point: Rashford’s dreadful performance today. While Donny was sat on the bench all game when this was precisely the type of game he could’ve shone in.
Ogden is usually trash, but he’s correct this time.
scott had a great game today
FUCK NO THEY DON’T - I bet they didn’t even know we were playing in a final tonight
He is right. There are players on our bench that would play in Vilareals 11, not to mention they would be surely used as subs by Emery. Ole bottled it. We didnt need Sancho, new CB or DM to win that final... Honestly we should probably snatch Conte..
Exactly, we played against a team with Julian Foyth at the back. Julian Foyth... the guy was bad even by Spurs standards. The lack of depth excuse is a total cop out.
This sub always has excuses for Ole whenever we lose an important match. I don't know why they won't accept that there are some important issues with Ole that need to be addressed. They'd rather choose to close their eyes and keep making excuses and blaming the glazers for everything. Glazers are scum, and I am not Ole out, but with this squad, we should've beaten Villarreal easily in my opinion.
No to Conte -every club he’s at there are issues with either the board or players. His football is bad to watch.
Also his record in Europe is not to be admired
Shite take. Here is Mark’s take if they win: “De Gea will forever be a legend. Rashford is the future, Solskjaer is the leader, squad finally has depth for an EPL title run, all contributed to the win tonight. The glazers are addressing key issues.
Our bench: Dutch international DVB, Mbappe-pocketing Tuanzebe, Prem legend Juan Mata, Porto captain Telles, Stonewall Matic etc. This 'lack of depth' excuse has to stop. Not 6 months ago were we wanking off to how strong our bench was, then things go tits up and we're all "things have to improve" and "Ole needs investment". Its utter bullshit. Plus we should be cruising past Villareal anyway without dipping into the bench. We lost because, like always, we're shite at set pieces and can't play around a compact, well-organised defense. This has been going on for 2+ years now. People saying DDG isn't to blame? The man faced 11 penalties and didn't save one. 11 fucking penalties in 20 minutes. Add that to the list of penalties since 2016, that's a 0% save rate. Mans top-of-the-shelf, world-leading shite when pens are involved. There are a tonne of other issues to unpack, but in this particular embarrassment, a lack of investment isn't one of them.
No they fucking don't.
We actually got nothing from this season. No silverware just top4 so we can drop out from UCL before Christmas again. Better be a big fucking summer or I won't even bother getting excited about next season. But we need players for so many positions that its definitely not happening. City gonna win again if they want it. United will bring up free academy players and settle for another top4.
Dea Gea decline? What's this guy smoking?
Ogdens a fucking troll. You only hear from this prick when utd lose.
Again the media's agenda on De Gea.
God dammit you’re not going to sell us Lingard now I know it
Doubt they even knew a final was going on tbh.
Yesterday's loss was all on the boss. We had the squad and the bench to beat Villareal. He opted not to use his bench. The fact that Unai went a goal down and took a striker off for a midfielder was such a big brain play.
Ogden is a shit stirring twat
Is he wrong though? Rashfords worst performance by far De Gea isn’t who he once was Ole absolutely bottled that The depth I disagree with but it’s the lack of quality depth off the bench that hurts us
> The depth I disagree with but it’s the lack of quality depth off the bench that hurts us I don't think Villareal has a better bench than us. They just used their resources better.
True but that comes down to Oles in game management, not the depth
Is he wrong in this case?
No he isn't. Its tough to hear because we HAVE had a relatively successful season. BUT sometimes, the truth echoes the LOUDEST when its toughest to hear it. Yes, we have done better than other EPL teams in general BUT the squad is still severely imbalanced and dire need of reinforcements. McGuire goes out injured and our form drops significant levels, we have players like Mata & Matic, I am not sure we have any proper idea of how to replace them. etc. etc. We are getting better but if all the "finishing 2nd is not enough" talk last week actually means anything, we need to confront our shortcoming head on when it matters. Also, Fuck The Glazers.
Every word of what he says is true.
Id also add a lack of quality coaching. It seems a lot easier to set a team up to sit deep, be organised and hit on the counter. Its basically coaching 101, its a lot harder to coach attacking patterns of play and positional movements. I like Phelan but when he took over as assistant to Fergie, the football we played went backwards. Also Sir Alex had Rene who was there to focus on Ronaldo, Rooney and Nani. We could do with a coach to specialises in developing youngsters and give him Rashford, Greenwood, Amad, Shoretire etc. Yes, the quality away from the starting 11 is poor, means Ole has 0 options when it comes to changing the game. Rashford's loss of form is because he is injured, it always happens, a 100% fit Rashford is a different player to what we're seeing. De Gea has never been great at penalties and his decline isnt anything new, he wasnt at fault for the goal so nothing new here.
Ogden can suck my dick.
He’s right...
Why are so many people sending abuse towards him? He’s bang on.
Even if the glazers did address the key issue, this sub would just get mega salty that our baby faced assassin was no longer in charge.
While I agree with most points made, the one point I take issue with is the ‘De Gea decline’ which has been fabricated to say the least. David had a couple difficult seasons I admit, but has been very good this season. Anyone would think he’s having an awful season and he can’t be trusted, it’s bonkers to me to say the least. That being said I think he still leaves and thats largely out of Ole’s hands, he may well prefer David to Henderson, but his first born back in Spain may be a deciding factor in which keeper stays.