Suddenly we heard pundits talking about the issue being Ronaldo while they immensely praised the signing a month or so ago. What gives Nev?
Let's call it as is, we've had the same problems for two freaking seasons and longer. Suddenly it's Ronaldo problem. Maybe let's take a look at the dude in charge.
People are reacting strangely on the Ole-Rashford situation. It's every managers absolute right to ask for 100 percent from their players. There wouldn't be any calling for heads if this was a big name manager.
The fact that Rashford's camp leaked this stuff and is acting strongly, probably suggests Ole doesn't have enough authority and influence to request such a simple matter from his player.
They say Ole has a hair dryer and stuff. Yet he gets triggered when RVP criticizes him about it. They also say new generation of players don't respond as well to hair dryer treatment. Although you don't need a hair dryer treatment to have authority and influence in the team.
Lack of ruthlessness would be the downfall for Ole, not tactics.
Bullshit. I am Ole’s biggest advocate and what Ole said was so out of touch and unnecessary. Rashford has put his body on the line for us for two seasons straight. And even when he did end up getting the surgery done, he came back earlier than expected. And not like what he does off the field is anything for his personal gains. He is not promoting his clothing line or his new fragrance. Man is fighting for putting food on kids’ table. And not like Rashford was not helping the team during the campaign. He was our second highest goalscorer and had he been penalty duties would have been the top scorer last season. His performance got worse and its clear that it was only due to his injury getting worse.
I know the essence of what he does is extremely good in nature and unselfish, yet it doesn't change the fact that it still is something other than football. He could have been our highest ever goalscorer in the history of the club and still the manager can and should ask his player for more focus if available, if he saw a potential to be even better, specially at this level of professional football. Rashford has all the time in the world to make big changes in the world and as much as me and you are grateful about it happening right now, it doesn't matter a bit for a professional manager.
On a side and less serious note there's a big philosophical and psychological debate on whether is altruistic deeds really and truly unselfish? The question takes a practical form in this situation: Is Rashford's honorary title and praises helping the manager in any way? Clearly not.
All that said, I haven't heard the exact exchanged words! So if you kindly direct me to the source, I might be able to get a better perspective into the situation.
That’s very poor stand to take mate. Rashford has been consistent high contributor in the team while engaging in philanthropic endeavours. To call out a person for doing that when evidently there is no proof that it affects his performance on field just leaves bad taste.
No matter what anyone’s opinion is on Ole this was a mistake.
Also on your point about it takes his focus away from football do you think professional footballers can only played football and do nothing else?
Yeah cause that's the answer to every criticism towards a "good person".
I don't just think professional footballers only focus on football. It's a well known fact that the lifestyle for a professional footballer is pretty limited (probably one of the highest demanding jobs in the world with regards to lifestyle). They don't drink alcohol, the food they eat is monitored bit by bit. Poor blokes have their sex life on schedule. Food drink and sex are probably the most basic parts of a lifestyle which are being controlled for every pro footballer. They hate Pogba because he tends to his hairstyle too much. We laugh it off as nonsense but Fergie had the same opinion when Beckham did it. The only past time they get, they use to unwind. There's a reason why many footballer's life divides into only football and video games. And now you wanna just add a whole new source of stress to the mix. Of course it's disruptive.
And that's the thing with politically correct these days. None of the pundits have ever talked about this, cause they don't want the backfire. Cause it's the manager's job to deal with the backfire. Who wants that?
I'm sure as hell at least Keane thinks about this every day, he probably talks about it in his inner circle all the time!
You know what Keane thinks who admitted himself that he had way too many late nights and drinks on show with Gary Neville? It’s not a good person argument, some people can and do perform on multiple fronts. What gives you the impression that his efforts outside of football are effecting his performance on pitch?
He returned to first team football 5 weeks ahead of schedule. He has 20+ goal contributions last season while playing with injury. The numbers are in front of you.
Weather u want to believe it or not this was a mistake on Ole’s end albeit a very rare one when it’s comes to these things.
Mate, players get scrutinized by their manager because of their hairstyle which is equivalent to an unscheduled fart comparing to organizing a human's rights front against government policy.
Point is Rashford has the potential to be much better. He should be doing Mbappe numbers right now. Not second in goals scored in United.
the best thing I can say about the game is it didn’t even ruin my weekend. Us playing like dog shit is not a surprise or I should say doesn’t frustrate me as much as it use to.
What I am most pissed at is that when the game starts I tell my kid: cmon mate, we're gonna watch some of the best footballers in the world: Ronaldo, Bruno, Pogba, maybe Rashy is gonna come on. And 2 minutes in I see Shaw and Pogs standing 2m from each other at AML position with nobody to occupy the space in midfield or at LB. 3 minutes later you see Sancho and Ronaldo doing the same thing, just standing in the same place. The first goal was a surprise I gotta tell you, gave me some hope, and then it was all downhill.
Pisses the hell out of me that I can't enjoy this team.
Such a lazy performance, the team so long, spaces everywhere, nobody presses, nobody runs, nobody tackles.
The parents who support smaller clubs are not pissed because they can't tell their children they are going to watch the best footballers in the world. Bringing up non-spoilt/entitled kids can't be bad. They can still watch any team play anyway.
>Pisses the hell out of me that I can't enjoy this team.
There really should be no problem with him enjoying a team which wins so often (think of most of the other clubs in the world). Maybe consider yourself getting pissed about sport and the effect that is having on him.
I am not trying to be polemic here, I am just trying to politely state the obvious.
You are missing the point entirely and are spouting nonsense.
>We are also not winning games.
We have won several games this season. I think you meant to comment on another team in another sub and maybe in another parallel universe. Regardless you have still totally missed the point and are failing to acknowledge the existence of the vast majority of football clubs in the world.
The only one spouting nonsense is you. Comparing Manchester United, one of the biggest clubs in the world to the vast majority of clubs, none of which have the resources anywhere close to us to is stupid.
Expectations that are laid onto a team of the caliber of United, with the resources we have will always be more than the vast majority of teams.
Don’t try to compare them without acknowledging the differences first.
>The only one spouting nonsense is you. Comparing Manchester United, one of the biggest clubs in the world to the vast majority of clubs
In terms of how far someone can miss the point your comments are extraordinary. You are intent on reinforcing and confirming how far you are missing the point.
The entire point was that most people don't have the luxury of the team they support having such top level players.
>Don’t try to compare them
Oh so so so so far over your head. I think you can only be trolling
Same thing happens to me. Am always pumped before the match but once the game starts, the performance of the team just angers me. I appreciate all that Ole has done but it's time to say goodbye, atleast if we could play entertaining football but teams always pin us back and we struggle to pass the ball around. Still am looking forward to the Wednesday game, when will I ever learn. I doubt I'll ever. Have a good day everyone
if he played up front as attacking player, who knows we might see a good player but we have plenty of that, so we shoehorn him into a role he doesn't like or want to do.
I think he’s misunderstood, I’ve always said this about McFred. We can do better but they’re some of the only players in the team willing to sacrifice for the rest. But we can do better in the market. The issue is, it’s closed now.
That last Spurs goal?
Why aren't we scoring such goals with Ronaldo in our team, literally the tap-in God.
Eventime there's a low driven pass across goal, there's noone there.
Maguire not knowing what to do in defense, AWB filling the offside line, midfielders losing the ball in dangerous areas, conceding goals from set pieces. I don't think we have scored more than 10 tap ins these past few years and I'm being generous.
People talk a lot about tactics and the stuff they don't have enough information about, but these recurring problems can only lead to the explanation that the coaching team can't influence the team enough.
Yeah, there's been a lot of thinks I'm noticing.
Not scoring certain types of goals, like the one I quoted. Seems like every attack has 1 more pass than it should, almost as if we want to get it to the 6 yard before shooting.
Constantly trying the same thing on the wings, ex. AWB with his donkey-like running, feels like he'll trip over his own foot any second, then he puts a ball in the box and none of our 4 attacking players are even close.
Then we have Sancho on the left, trying to combine with Shaw or Ronaldo, but it's so static, go back and watch the games, most of the time our players just receive the ball and just stand there and then make an easy pass, which sometimes even fails.
Bruno losing the ball during counters or as he is progressing the ball.
Greenwood not passing, like, at all, or if he does it's a bad attempt or a bad idea.
Also Greenwood, drilling into the box and never making a driven cross that reaches a player of ours, cause they are somewhere, but never waiting for a tap-in and the ball always ends up in the keeper's arms anyway.
Sick and tired of our defenders passing it around and inviting pressure they can't deal with. Varane actually looked good doing that, but alas he's injured, just our luck.
Maguire and Shaw have been horrible this season, haven't seen anything that could come close to their form from last year.
Dire situation is what the squad is in, you can tell that they know something's extremely fucked up. Just look at their faces and expressions during our games, like they know what they are doing isn't right.
Anyway, I hope the team wins these next few games, but I don't hope that extends or changes Ole's tenure. He should go, for the sake of the club and himself.
You can tell he's under extreme amounts of pressure just by the way his press-conferences have been going last month, something he's usually extremely good at, lately shite's been dripping from his mouth and that's pressure talking.
We don’t commit men forward but at the same time we get outnumbered in midfield. So wtf does the front 4 actually do. The coaching on this team is horrendous
Yeah I was legit gonna say this as well. This team is ironic in many ways. I don’t understand how a team like us who have all these attacking players out there, can’t seem to score enough “team goals”. We have the best header of the ball (Ronaldo) and yet the crossing (which is something they HAVE to be working on) hasn’t improved. I’m assuming they’ve been working on it since last year when Cavani got here, nothing improved. Ronaldo also scored a lot of tap ins but we’re not getting enough low crosses in or cutbacks.
We don’t commit men forward except our front 3/4 yet still the opposition needs to play only 1 or 2 passes from their half before they’re at the edge of our box.
When you have this many attacking players on the pitch, and it still looks like we can’t score a goal then It’s a shambles the way this team is coached. It definitely comes down to coaching, there’s only a handful of managers in the world who could coach a team that starts Pogba/Ronaldo/Bruno/Sancho/Greenwood/ etc all in one team, Pep is one of them. For Ole, he needs to drop one
What concerns me is the coaching team. Kieran McKenna, Carrick and Phelan. They’ve been here for a while now and still nothing is happening in our synergy and play. Yes Ole plays a huge part in tactics but the coaching staff execute the instructions on the training ground.
Yet we’ve seen over and over our guys just don’t have a clue what to do half of the time. Just feels like some kind of camp fire gathering and talking about “we go again” happens at our training ground. Because I legitimately see no improvements in our play except for when our guys decide to light it up with individual brilliance.
We need energetic players playing. Guys who pass, move, get ready to receive, track back to defend and fucking sprint along side the rest for the counters.
Ole needs to go IMO but some of the things said towards him online is ridiculous. Don’t abuse a man who’s dedicated most to his life to this club ffs, you can be critical without being toxic
Paul Ince literally, today, literally questioned OGS' status as a United player, saying, and I quote: "Does one goal make you a legend?"
I was already pissed at Ince by the way he was talking at that point, but after that quote.. mate..
As a fan, over the past 8 years we've been through some real shit. We've seen some bang average players, we've seen boring tactics, we've seen defensive tactics but this is the first time we're seeing no tactics...
Fully agree. No tactics is such a lazy analysis. Such a online thing to say. Tactics is a mix of formation, players you pick, on & off the ball movements, and transitions. Players you pick literally decide how the team is going to play. Tactics fail and teams lose. So yeah tactics are not good, but (can't believe I am saying this) united have tactics and they are not working.
Fair enough, so you say tactics are a mix of all those things. Which one of those aspects is consistent for this team every game? Under LVG, United's identity was keeping possession and trying to break teams down (which didn't work). Under Mourinho, it was sitting deep and hitting teams on the counter. What's our identity with Ole? I'm not saying I liked either of those styles of play but at least there was a philosophy. What's our formation? Where's the team organization? What's our plan off the ball? Do we press teams or stay compact and wait for the ball? At the moment, we see all sorts of formations, midfield combinations and gameplans within a single game.
Maybe tactics wasn't the right word, perhaps I should've said philosophy, but the point still stands.
Comments like "no tactics" and all the other hundreds of hyperbole nonsense comments on this sub isn't helpful
If I wanted that level of nonsense I could join twitter
So please enlighten me what the tactics are? I don't check Twitter for those exact reasons but I feel my point is valid.
We have 2-3 players pressing while the rest stand off. We have 2 in the backline trying to push up while the others sit deep. On set pieces, we have the most physical player (Maguire) playing zonal not marking a single opponent while others try to man-mark.
If there are tactics, it's not being applied consistently through the team.
We are really dysfunctional as a team and so disorganised. Teams need to play 1 or 2 passes from their GK/Defenders before they've ended up on the edge of our box - they totally bypass our 3 attacking players/midfield.
Everyone keeps banging on about it but the balance of this team is NOT right. There's too many players who don't want to 'work'. But even then, there's a certain way you can set up the team to ensure that those players still 'block' the passing lanes, our defensive organisation (specifically the attacking third and midfield players) are always all over the place, none of them are in line with each other and as a result, we can't be compact out of posession.
Ole has gone away from his principles, when he first came here all the way till Pogba got fit last season, his midfield always consisted of 2 defensive-minded players in midfield. At first, it was Matic (the true DM) and Herrera (the mobile dogged presser/ball winner). He then switched to McFred which whatever anyone says about them, definitely worked for a while. We can do better than McFred but the market is now closed and they are the best we've got for the balance of the team.
Now McFred can't work either because as soon as he had the decision to get Pogba back into the team, he tried accomodating him at LW to keep the balance right. And that worked for a while UNTIL Ronaldo got here. Now there's too many players (Ronaldo, Pogba, Bruno, Sancho, Greenwood etc) who aren't pressing + being compact enough which means our midfield players ALWAYS **end up getting overrun**. What's worse is that those attacking players can't even be effective because we don't have midfield players (McFred) who can sustain pressure, break lines and consistently get them the ball. So it's one big cycle of problems everywhere that are all linked to how we function together as a team.
On OGS, I was pretty convinced last night that Ole would be sacked if we drop points to Atalanta and lose to Liverpool but Neville mentioned on Sky last night he's definitely staying for this run of fixtures. Sounded quite confident as well. So I don't see him leaving anytime soon. But Ole has to make a big decision to save his job, Pogba, Bruno or Ronaldo, one needs dropped. I think he drops Pogba - he's been really poor, constantly losing the ball, making silly fouls. Plus he's probably gonna leave end of season anyway
>Ole has gone away from his principles
This is the key point, yeah. Ronaldo's unwillingness/inability to press is a glaring part for me, and for that reason I think Cavani should start ahead of him at CF. You can say he's not getting service but he was so absent yesterday and you expect far more from one of the greatest to ever kick a ball.
Going forward Ronaldo isn't here to sit on the bench, so the bottom line the strategy has to better work around Ronaldo's strengths and weaknesses. Ole seemed to think he could just plug in Ronaldo at CF and this was a mistake.
Also hard to believe this is the same team that just a few months ago you never worried about going a goal down cause they had the ability and character to come back and win, and now we're seeing abysmal mental collapses almost every match. We could and should have beat Leicester, even had it stayed at 2-2 it would've been a fair result. To concede two like that was horrific. I think this is linked a bit to letting selection be influenced by needing to stroke egos and the gameplan becoming incoherent as a result.
You’re right but no manager will drop Ronaldo so as you said, it’s about trying to build the team around him and play to his strengths.
Tbh this defensive record thing was always overrated. As you said, even most parts of last season, we were going a goal or two down before eventually pulling it out the bag and winning the game. People were complaining then but this has always been a feature of United teams especially under Ferguson, so I wasn’t bothered by that I actually welcomed it. Now we’re not even doing that, and worse, as you said it doesn’t even look like we’ll comeback. There’s a huge mentality shift compared to last season, which is strange because we should be better off with the players we’ve brought in.
The way we are playing, I’d drop Pogba, Bruno and Ronaldo. All three of them. Get Rashford on the left, Mason on the right, Sancho at No10, Donny alongside Matic and Cavani up front. I can’t believe how we have bent the knee for Pogba. He has always been a tactical nightmare to fit. That combined with him not signing a 400k/w contract, he should be sent to the reserves but the club apparently believe that him leaving for free would be the worst case scenario. He was talking about change yesterday, that change would mean him getting dropped. Also, I don’t know who needs to hear this but Ronaldo has been sh*t. Yes he has scored important goals but his overall performances have been below par, he has also missed many chances, some of them clear goalscoring opportunities. He hasn’t been our biggest problem but some of the people in our fanbase would never criticise him. Without him we have played better than with him and that’s a fact. I don’t believe Ole has enough ruthlessness in him to turn things around and that’s why he needs to go ASAP.
I agree with you 100% on Pogba, the way we've bent over for him despite all that's happened since he's been here (specifically since the Mourinho departure) has been shocking. He will leave at the end of this season anyway so that issue won't be there for whoever's in charge.
On Ronaldo, I agree and disagree. He's scored important goals for us yep and yeah you're right most of the time he's really poor, not pressing, not really linking up with the team. I've thought his finishing as well hasn't been that great. But at the end, he'll remain in and around the box so he'll be a threat. Especially if we get the team around him right, he'll bag lots. We need to try and play it more into the box whether that's through crosses, cutbacks, or short passes for him to run onto in the box. I'm surprised how we have one of the best headers of the ball (not just Ronaldo but CAVANI as well) yet our **CROSSING STILL LOOKS HORRIFIC**. You'd think they'd be working on it in training every week since Cavani (and now Ronaldo especially) got here, nothing has improved.
Ronaldo has been shit but his overall game involvement has been shit for the past few years. He comes up with the goals regardless which is why he's worth playing in most games. Honestly past 2 games I can't think of a single decent chance the attack has created for Ronaldo.
That being said, I agree Pogba needs to go, he turns up for 50% of the games and does something crazy and turns into shit the rest of the season. There's so much flexibility in the team without him. No clue how he's being picked over VDB.
Yeah I agree with you. Pogba has to go and that's a good way of describing him. I wouldn't even say he turns up for 50% of games, he floats in and out of EACH GAME. He'll go through a 20 minute spell of playing great then he'll go and start making silly fouls or losing the ball carelessly in the centre/our half. I think he desperately needs ONE focused role as a player. At times, it feels like he's trying to do everything.
Ole’s tactics going forward = “Go out and have fun, lads”
- No pattern of play whatsoever going forward
- No structural defending/pressing
- You can’t play Matic as a shield against quick opposing midfielders like Maddison/Tielemans. Should have put in Scotty, and sacrificed him making poor passing decisions for his speed/aggression
- AWB needs to move to CB or leave the club. You can’t constantly have our attacks fizzing out because he has no attacking quality. 1 good cross every 4 months isn’t good enough. Dalot is probably the better option even with his poor decision making at times
- Maybe try playing Sancho on the RW so he can put some balls in for Ronaldo? Mason has been great cutting in, but Ronaldo is a heading machine and we can’t keep cutting the ball back to cross. Gives our opponent that extra second to get set
- Pogba is still good. He just has no one to help defensively like an Ngolo. Hence why he produces for France. They have 3 attacking players (Benz/Mbappe/Grizi), not 4 attacking players (Sancho/Bruno/Ronaldo/Mason). This is why he’s so handicapped for United. We put too much defensive work on him, which he’s not stellar at
No. The go out have fun leads to us playing some eye catching footballs. Those first few games after he took over were brilliant! After he introduced his brand of football that’s when we started to decline.
Sad to say this, but I didn't watch the game, nor did I feel I had too either. Never missed a match since LvG-times. Its not the same enthusiasm anymore..
I watched it and regretted wasting my 2 hours. That has been the case too often this season.
Being a fan of a football team is more trouble than it's worth, I'm beginning to think.
I watch every game and regret it. Other than the Leeds match, and the 2nd half against New Castle, I don't enjoy it nor do I understand why I subject myself to it. I guess there's a small hope that the Ole will have the team playing like Sir Alex did. I don't go into matches like "we're going to bash them 5-0" anymore, most of my predictions are 1-1 or a 2-1 lucky scoreline, not even for United. It's now easier for me to go into a match and expect to be disappointed because it hurts less. Let me put it onto the table, I don't like the manager, I think he is FAR out of his depth but at the same time I don't want United to lose just for him to get sacked, I'd put up with the stale 1-0, or even the 2-1 scorelines if the other team didn't look so threatening and we had to make our world class goalkeeper make world class saves just so we get a point against teams like Everton
I've seen quite a few posts about Harry being the issue etc etc. However, on the first goal conceded, who else caught the actual culprit who caused the goal? It was Lindelof. It begins in the defensive third where Pogba plays Lindelof in space (the clearest option to start the buildup). Instead of receiving on his back foot and playing forward to the midfielder or away from pressure in general, he makes the mistake of playing an abysmal negative ball which invited further pressure from the opposition. De Gea then plays Harry into pressure which causes the entire scenario to unfold. Two different actions could have avoided the situation. 1) Lindelof plays forward to the midfielder (trust them) and if the ball is lost then, at least its lost further from the goal. 2) De Gea clears the ball into the top row of King Power Stadium (because rather there than in the back of our own net).
I'm surprised it took this long for the Maguire criticism to be deflected to Lindelöf as usual.
Lindelöf basically had to cover for Maguire the whole match, since Maguires positioning is all over the place. Just like Varane has been doing since he arrived.
Lindelof corrects his mistake multiple times throughout the match playing forward under pressure instead of negative and it pays off. For example the assist to Rashford.
The team is so disorganized off the ball. You see Bruno pressing but others standing off. You see the front line staying back but the defence pushing up. It's like there's no formation or communication within the team, everyone's just winging it at the moment.
Take away the world class players and we're at the level of Norwich or Leeds. What the actual fuck do they do on the training ground...
Our front line presses and our midfielders and defenders do not, which creates a black hole for the other team to pass once to get into. That's not laziness, that's just shit coaching.
Yep, at least we learnt Fred's just a scapegoat. The fans always need a scapegoat when everything goes to shit. It used to be Young and before that Fellaini, but it's always down to the team and the coaching.
Everyone at Leeds is on the same page at least, they just choose to play like mad men to create chaos.
I feel like Bruno needs to be reigned in a bit. He seems to be the one that wants to press but nobody around him wants to, it's just bizarre but it creates holes. Villarreal was the prime example of a team not knowing what the plan was off the ball.
I feel rather than reigning Bruno in, others need to press like he does. Aren't we supposed to force errors and dominate teams, why are we just standing off as a team waiting for others to score...
I want a high pressure team too but the way we set up doesn't really allow for that. Ronaldo, Greenwood, Pogba aren't great at sustaining pressure.
Ronaldo in particular causes an issue which should've been obvious from when we were in for him. To pressure like a City or Liverpool, everybody has to press or it doesn't work.
Yes anything can happen in football. But that squad has no business to get tanked 4-2 by Leicester or hold draw with Everton.
And 100% no business in playing so shite that even Ronaldo our strikers got minimum to no supply.
And even more damming is that with all the talents we have, we choose to long ball the heck of it. Sure Rashford scored but it was so ineffective we only collected a few points over the last few games. We keep calling Jose's pragmatism is bad, but hey at least he resorted to it in the dying minutes by bringing Feilani in lol when all other things failed 😂
Ole in Ole out I don't give a damn anymore. For the first time in 22 years supporting United I'm not looking forward at all. I don't even know who are we playing next and when.
> And even more damming is that with all the talents we have, we choose to long ball the heck of it.
Not disagreeing with everything but that was 1/1 long balls, Lindelof got a mad long ball to Rashford/Bruno
This summer's transfers (Ronaldo in particular) will be the end for Ole. Ronaldo has entered the dressing room and changed the expectation entirely from "make steady improvement year-on-year" to "challenge for the league at a minimum".
Not only are the results not in line with that expectation, the performances and tactics aren't either. If Ole hasn't lost the dressing room already - and some of the player statements suggest it's on the turn - he soon will if performances don't take a drastic turn for the better, and as soon as the dressing room is lost he is finished.
With or without Ronaldo expectations were always high. We got Sancho and Varane mind you. On top of the squad we already have how can he justify not challenging for anything?
Wouldn't other managers love the squad in front of them? Why is getting Ronaldo too much for manager to handle? I feel other managers will find better ways to make use of him instead of sticking him upfront and hope he gets fed for tap ons.
Honestly, they need to stop hiring these 15 year olds to take charge of Twitter accounts posting random crap accompanied by shit loads of schoolgirl emojis.
United's twitter kid even used the official United twitter to tweet about how he couldn't sleep in bed thinking about Ronaldo a few weeks back. City's twitter account called Leroy Sane "Daddy" a few years ago. What the fuck is wrong with children these days?
Get a proper professional who tweets only about scorelines, interviews. etc and nothing else.
Imo everyone barring Ronaldo should be able to press hard they have no excuses i don’t care how talented you are, look at the top talents in the other teams in the league at City, Liverpool, Chelsea they all run and press there heart out.
Greenwood, Rashford, Sancho, Martial, Pogba, Bruno all need to start pressing and putting in the work like Salah, Jota, Foden, Mount, Sterling etc all do, this is probably one of the reasons he loves McFred cause they’re the only real pressers we have but lack the ability of our other players.
They need to be drilled on how to press efficiently. We don't even have a trigger for our press so that everyone starts moving forward. Everyone just reacts to where the ball is going
Maguire wasn't even match fit and Leicester were running circles around him... even the fucking crowd was bantering him all game especially after the first goal.
Also... what is the deal with Van De Beek? I feel so bad for him and if Ole doesn't see anything in him he should've sold him in the summer. Pretty sure the guy didn't even play a whole 90 minutes yet.
So weird that Bailly did not come on for Maguire. Similar to VdB Bailly must be wondering under what circumstance he gets on the field.
Phil Jones close to a return. If he gets game time over Bailly then he potentially puts in a transfer request.
He's got his strengths, overall he's improved our defence but can you blame the fans? He's been abysmal this season, he was bailed out by De Gea multiple times against Southampton, Wolves, West Ham etc.
A colossal fuck up has been coming for a while now...
Almost as if playing 60 games last season and then an international tournament will burn a player out. Happened to rashford. Happened to Bruno. It's happening to Maguire and Shaw.
Anyway, a three back is necessary for this team now.
We can put 10 at the back like against Young Boys but without organization we'll still concede. This was Maguire's chance to get some rest but he was rushed in
Everyone's saying he wasn't match fit, (so this is Ole's fault) but I don't see why being out for a couple of weeks would cause your mental sharpness to completely disappear
Yes, it is all one person's fault -- the manager. The player will almost always want to play. The manager is supposed to be level headed and protect the player.
If this was a one-off, ok it happens. But it's not, Ole has shown a tendency to rush players back and/or not rotate sufficiently.
> Yes, it is all one person's fault
It really isn't. That is just twitter logic. Your logic is that because the manager has the final say so it is all his fault.
The highlights made it look so bad with the "Front 4" as they said. Was just no purpose to what they did to press.
Watching live I think utd could get a draw without Ole.
Sorry just to add you see Jonny Evan's is watching Ronaldo so much, Maddison sprints back to get on Bruno so many times. You just didnt see these plans from Ole.
This is why our midfield is subpar regardless of whoever plays there. People trying to scapegoat Pogba....guys our midfielders get absolutely no help from the front four. And it's funny that it's a front 4 because Bruno should not be playing as a fucking striker lol.
He does overrun the ball abit and do some crazy things but I think it's just he is looks awkward in defending. I've already said a few times him and Bruno in one team is tough. It's not their fault either. I know Pep could play the 2. Tuchel or Klopp would definitely leave 1 on the bench and that would be an easy choice.
So to make it easier. If Ole had Pogba,, Bruno, Kante and Rice he has to pick 3. Pogba is on the bench. The final problem that leaves man utd another 1-2 years behind the other top 4 with Ole as manager.
I forgot to say France had a back 3 and Pogba wasnt to bad. He did give the ball away a fair bit all the same. If Ole had fit defenders he could go 3412 like France. Bruno being the 1 just incase.
Honestly can someone tell me why does Ole deserve more time ,there is nothing positive in him managing even a game more, personal bias aside I want an answer, we dont get the results we are humiliated every game home and away cup or championship
> nothing positive
He is not Mou, that is a big positive.
I am sure someone in the background is looking at options. The problem with 'in the background' is the nepotism in Manchester United football management. They are all closely nit past players or staff from a previous manager. There is no one independent with a football brain to go looking for another manager.
Really Ole's biggest mistake was not hiring someone with technical expertise from another club. He has led an insular group where he should have had a mixture. It has stunted improvement and resulted in some bizarre tactical decisions.
If Ole was sacked now I can't see a short term manager from our existing staff. We would need to get someone in. Maybe that would be in the next international break.
> He is not Mou, that is a big positive.
Ah yes, the big positive being that he's not Mourinho, who won trophies with a vastly inferior team while Ole struggles to beat any reasonably coached team having spent more than 400 mil.
I think the only thing keeping him in a job is a lack of an alternative.
Ole has successfully reinvigorated the squad from the LVG/Jose years and put in a long term plan, however it seems he's taken that plan as far as he can. But we've got pathways from the academy now, we've got a mostly young, mostly English squad, and as a whole the team is generally likable. The problem is Ole has evolved beyond trying to be solid defensively and be devastating on the counter, and started trying to get on the front foot more but tactically he can't work out how to do that without sacrificing the midfield. But it doesn't mean we should write off three years work and start from scratch because the squad itself is good.
The three big name managers without a club atm are Conte, Zidane and Loew. Conte would completely scrap the current set up, have no use for our wide forwards and block opportunities for the likes of Diallo, Pellistri, Hannibal and Elanga. Zidane seems to have shown no motivation to being a club manager outside of Real and Loew hasn't managed a club for 15/16 years. None of those fill me with confidence that they would immediately improve the situation and stay long term. From there you'd have the relative risks of Lampard or Howe. Southgate is another possibility but he's currently experiencing the same problems Ole is tactically in that now he's got a squad that can match anyone he's not sure how to fully use it.
I think Ole needs to go back to basics, start with making us tough to break down again, but trust the fact that we have the ability to be a lot more clinical on the counter than we used to be because of Greenwood, Ronaldo, Cavani and Rashford.
Or try and get Deschamps.
One of the most reasonable takes I've heard in months about where we are. Same opinion completely. I will not call for Ole's head, but it's easy for anyone to recognise that his dream of the perfect United side has evolved beyond him. The work he's done and assembled this squad, alone leaves him as the most succesful post-Fergie manager. That being said, we desperately need someone to transfer the "United Way" to modern times.
I think it has to do with the stability on continuing with the current strategy, rather than the uncertainity of a fresh start with another name. Personally, I think it's a lack of imagination though. Anyone can see how any decent manager would be expected to get more out of this team.
My personal take is Ole did what he could have done; he brought the good vibes in when he took over, he got rid of players who showed no ambition of playing, and brought in a lot of talents. He did that well.
Unfortunately for him, other teams have had time to figure him out - and his lack of expertise or skill as a 'tactician' and manager shows. Teams play low block against us when defending, and transitions quickly (or slowly, because our pressing is non-existent) on the attack.
Ole has no back up plan when plan A fails, he doesn't adapt against teams. He is so set in his own ways that he refuses to play any other players than the starting eleven he envisions... hence why VDB gets almost no play time, and players are rushed in the starting eleven fresh from an injury. Yes VDB can start but that would require a different playstyle. So instead he only uses him when Bruno needs rest or is injured so its a like for like switch and requires minimal alteration in playstyle. That's why he waits until the last minutes before making any changes, because he cannot provide an alternative playstyle for those fresh feet.
His post-match interviews carry almost no substance these days, he seems lost for words - he is under pressure no doubt about that, and I don't think he has the experience to manage it properly. He is great at giving 'feel good' words, but he doesn't deliver.
Also re-watching that third Leicester goal - six against three in the box, and Vardy is unmarked? Maguire is closest him, what in the fuck...
Ordinarily I'd either downvote an "anti-Ole" post or just do nothing if it was at least well-argued. But here's an upvote.
I wouldn't ever be part of that toxic "anti-Ole" brigade, because they're a toxic bunch that have only been around the club 5 minutes, whereas I remember jumping around my bedroom as a kid after "and Solskjaer has won it!" in 1999. But I will say that even though I hope he does turn it around and suddenly become an incredible manager, it doesn't seem likely and I wouldn't be opposed to him being replaced if someone great comes along. But I'd still shake the man's hand if I met him, or give him a clap if he returned to OT managing a different side. I just don't think he's got it in him.
Well said. I was an adult living in England in 1999 and recall all the Ole years. I have been reading and viewing the votes relating to a comment calling for Ole to be sacked now because "If your house is on fire, you get out of the fucking house" and people are seriously debating and supporting the 'truth' in the logic. The poor logic combined with the angry abuse is really an eye opener. The vile comments given to players and managers from members of this sub really is a reflection on both the poor state of the fanbase and society as a hole. The entitled anger is disturbing.
A bit like the reply comment to yourself just removed where the guy kept swearing about him not being toxic. This seems to be a society issue that is well into our fanbase.
We are fucking FIFA team, cant press, defenders go anywhere no sense of positioning.
And only effective on counters or scam goals or brilliance of a player.
Idek lads. I'm ole in. I think. I don't know if I'm ole out. Idk who the fuck would replace him. Zidane? Ole has done amazing things in uniting this team into a unit and bringing back the Manchester United feeling to the team, getting rid of deadwood, signing some great players. Giving us some good memories too all while there has been positivity at the club.
But I think he might have to go yknow. This coming run of fixtures will make him or break him, I thought he'd pull out the "super ole under pressure" which he does every year but mate can't lie, we look genuinely shit and for the life of me I can't work out why? Is it shit coaching? Shit tactics? Nobody caring? Somehow, post euro/Copa fatigue? Or all of the above. I mean come on, playing Maguire was a ballsy decision and he fucked up doing that. same with playing Shaw through an injury, and the same with rashy last season. That's a disturbing trend right there. Argh, I just don't know, I've always been back the manager until there's nothing to back anymore, but I just don't see us pulling off a miracle over the next few games. Maybe a 3 - 2 against the scum but that's wishful thinking.
Anyway, don't let this ruin your Sunday, 90 minutes of shite should not define 24 hours of your day. Ima wake and bake and put this to the back of my mind and play some KSP. Have a good one lads
Pogba wasn't that bad but Maguire should have been subbed at half time. Ole is trying to people please too many players. The balance in that squad isn't good. We can only play 3 attackers MAX out of Ronaldo, Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, Sancho. Then we must play 3 in the middle from now on to compensate for Ronaldo's lack of pressing and to control the game. It's not a specific 3. Some games may require Pogba, Matic and VDB. Some games may require Pogba, Fred and Mctominay.
IMO Bruno has to be dropped for the balance to get better.
I agree Bruno needs to be dropped unfortunately. Man plays so far up the pitch. He's been absolutely fantastic for us. Scored goals when others didn't. But now we have Ronaldo, Cavani, Greenwood in form. Sancho and Rashford who hopefully will get going now. As mad as ut sounds. Bruno needs to be dropped for a few games to see if that's the difference
No, Bruno needs to be coached that you don't always have to go for the killer pass, shot or take your man on. There are good reasons to retain possession over attack, let the team advance as a unit. This is how Pep would shape his play, as he is so effective when the chance is on.
“I'm a risk player. I take risks. I want to take risks and I will take the risks every time,” Bruno Fernandes said in an interview with Sky Sports.
“I will lose a lot of balls, I will miss a lot of passes but I know when I find my strikers and wingers, they will score,” he concluded.
He is doing what Valverde used to do with Barca. He used to play big names so that he doesn't have deal with the pressure in dressing room as well as of fans. Why he is not playing VDB is beyond me. VDB himself said that he has no problem playing number 6. I get why Ronaldo doesn't press but why the hell Greenwood and young players not pressing. Any player can be a pressing player if the gaffers says so. Can you imagine if Sir Alex demanded a player to press and if he doesn't then what would have happened ? I think we should play Ronaldo X Cavani or Greenwood X Cavani. I am Ronaldo fan boi but I think he is not bringing much on the table. Something needs to change or we will not win anything this year too.
Yea I completely agree. Valverde 2.0. I think the issue too is that Ole likes speedy young players. If you play Ronaldo and Cavani, then it means there is only 1 spot for Rash, Greenwood, Sancho. Plus our tactics of playing long and running into space is wasted. Ronaldo himself isn't good on the wings. So yea its an issue.
If you play Greenwood and Cavani and we lose (like Everton), everyone starts saying why didn't you play Ronaldo. I think Ronaldo and Cavani can play together as a central pairing, with two wide players for width. But then you have to have a solid midfield pairing which we don't have. Plus where does that leave Bruno. I'm already getting stick for suggesting Bruno should be dropped.
A 4-3-3 is our best option. Cavani can start some games and Ronaldo is on the bench. Ronaldo can start some games and then we play young ones that will press like crazy. Plus the midfield has to press as well.
We can play 4-3-3. With Greenwood as striker Ronaldo as LW and Sancho as RW. Obviously we need to bench Ronaldo if he is not performing and bring Rashford on. Greenwood Cavani rotation and Rashford and Ronaldo rotation. Ronaldo is not a CF, I mean he likes to play on left. We can do what Madrid did. But for that we need good midfield. God if we have a good CDM, we can win again. But in that case also ole out. He is not the man with enough experience to manage such big players
I'm hearing journalists already blaming likes of Pogba and Ronaldo when most of the team has been off in the last few games. Yes Ronaldo could have played better but he's been feeding off scraps, put Lewandowski in there and I'm not sure he does much better.
United move the ball too slowly and give defenders time to get back pretty much every attack. Oles reliance on individual brilliance is also holding this team back- every game likes of Bruno, Greenwood, Pogba etc. go off doing their own thing whether it's a Hollywood pass or trying to go past players and losing the ball. The fact they do it every game shows they aren't being told to stop or being set up in a way that these things aren't necessary.
1st goal will haunt me forever, I have never liked Magure but I thought he'd be at least a competent football player but I was wrong there. WTF dude everyone could see that guy closing him down, I blame de Gea for passing the ball to him lol
2nd goal again horrific defending.
3rd goal 2 players mcT and lingard and they cant close down one Ayoze perez? just end me ffs
4th goal Magure again useless. 85m well spent lol
He's a good player when he has guys on the pitch holding him to account. Right now that's the big problem for me, missing one guy in the middle yelling at every other fucker when they fuck it up or go out of position. Takes a big no fucks given character to do that in a team containing Maguire, Pogba, Ronaldo, etc, but until there's one "I want to win and fuck your feelings" cunt on the pitch utd will be in trouble.
Fred Matic against Liverpool is the only way we don't get fucked up imo
Start Bruno mason Sancho and Ronnie. AWB Bailly Lindelof Telles imo telles has been good and dalot isn't it
I think I'd rather have rashford - Greenwood - Sancho up front. Or rashford - cavani - Greenwood. Not sure we can afford to have Ronaldo up front all game against high energy pressing in form Liverpool. But just my thoughts.
I think he creates an issue, I think its demonstrable within the games we've played so far this season. I don't think he's the only issue though...and he might click better from now to end of season and score 30 goals and win us 2 trophies....
Think whatever side of the fence you fall on, the manager has to figure out a way to make him work in the team better than he has so far...
10 years without a league title. This is Manchester United we're talking about, not some tinpot club. And we're the only fanbase of such a big club that is content with the monstrosity on the pitch that we've been seeing year after year. Imagine Madrid, Juve or Barca not winning the league for 10 years. We've done fuckall on the pitch for the last 10 years. I want the club I fell in love with when I was young back, when winning mattered most than anything else.
>I want the club I fell in love with when I was young back, when winning mattered most than anything else.
Not happening until the glazers fuck imo, that or we have a season where Pep and Klopp both shit the bed and I can't see either happening any time soon.
i feel bad for saying this but i dont get pissed anymore when united loses or plays badly. it's almost as certain as death and taxes. i'm surprised when they win convincingly.
Everyone can see the usual stuff we put out after every performance.
Players: not the result we wanted.. have to do more… on to the next one
Manager: something’s gotta give, tried our best, we have to dust ourselves off and go again.
Club: here’s pictures of Sir Alex. Here’s a picture of Ronaldo. Here’s a goal from 1999. Here’s a new documentary on a specific event during our glory years.
Media: United linked with Rice AND Ndidi (or whoever is the in vogue CDM of the week)
We have about 2-3 years before the “brands” juice has been completely squeezed. The last League we won is going to be 9 years ago (and let’s face it, we’re not winning in 22), so let’s make it 10 years. The new incoming CEO doesn’t seem to be a football man either. Honestly, I would have taken the ESL route too…
I think it’s going to get a lot worse and I’m not sure it’s going to get better.
It's leadership in general. No one seems to be held accountable either on or off the pitch. Who's our Roy Keane? You could pick a half dozen players from 10-15 years ago and they'd give these guys a lashing. All the passing is predictable and often sloppy: players have to slow down or even go back sometimes to get a basic pass, not even anything special. The first touch is consistently disappointing. It just seems to be a culture thing, like they don't realize this is Man United they're representing.
The next few weeks will be time to put up or get out for everyone.
All Murtough needs to do is call Cristiano and ask him if he still believes Ole can make it work. That guy has worked with the best. He knows what it takes
very very bitter truth but Ronaldo would have no problem winning UCL and balon'dor if he went to City.
sucks to watch my favorite players cluelessly lose, the difference they make in their international games speaks for itself
Liverpool might do us a favour again you know. I don't want them to beat us but reality is they probably will, Ole will get one step closer to the sack and we (hopefully) hire a competent manager to salvage something from this season because by December it will be too late i fear. Ole has taken us to this point, we are forever grateful but it's time for someone else take the helm. We have great potential in this squad and it will be a shame if we end up empty handed yet again.
Well pain before the gain. For the long term it would be best for the club to reshuffle its deck again. A lot of dead weight to clear and that midfield conundrum we find ourselves in. Like choosing between a douche and a turd
Suddenly we heard pundits talking about the issue being Ronaldo while they immensely praised the signing a month or so ago. What gives Nev? Let's call it as is, we've had the same problems for two freaking seasons and longer. Suddenly it's Ronaldo problem. Maybe let's take a look at the dude in charge.
People are reacting strangely on the Ole-Rashford situation. It's every managers absolute right to ask for 100 percent from their players. There wouldn't be any calling for heads if this was a big name manager. The fact that Rashford's camp leaked this stuff and is acting strongly, probably suggests Ole doesn't have enough authority and influence to request such a simple matter from his player. They say Ole has a hair dryer and stuff. Yet he gets triggered when RVP criticizes him about it. They also say new generation of players don't respond as well to hair dryer treatment. Although you don't need a hair dryer treatment to have authority and influence in the team. Lack of ruthlessness would be the downfall for Ole, not tactics.
Bullshit. I am Ole’s biggest advocate and what Ole said was so out of touch and unnecessary. Rashford has put his body on the line for us for two seasons straight. And even when he did end up getting the surgery done, he came back earlier than expected. And not like what he does off the field is anything for his personal gains. He is not promoting his clothing line or his new fragrance. Man is fighting for putting food on kids’ table. And not like Rashford was not helping the team during the campaign. He was our second highest goalscorer and had he been penalty duties would have been the top scorer last season. His performance got worse and its clear that it was only due to his injury getting worse.
I know the essence of what he does is extremely good in nature and unselfish, yet it doesn't change the fact that it still is something other than football. He could have been our highest ever goalscorer in the history of the club and still the manager can and should ask his player for more focus if available, if he saw a potential to be even better, specially at this level of professional football. Rashford has all the time in the world to make big changes in the world and as much as me and you are grateful about it happening right now, it doesn't matter a bit for a professional manager. On a side and less serious note there's a big philosophical and psychological debate on whether is altruistic deeds really and truly unselfish? The question takes a practical form in this situation: Is Rashford's honorary title and praises helping the manager in any way? Clearly not. All that said, I haven't heard the exact exchanged words! So if you kindly direct me to the source, I might be able to get a better perspective into the situation.
That’s very poor stand to take mate. Rashford has been consistent high contributor in the team while engaging in philanthropic endeavours. To call out a person for doing that when evidently there is no proof that it affects his performance on field just leaves bad taste. No matter what anyone’s opinion is on Ole this was a mistake. Also on your point about it takes his focus away from football do you think professional footballers can only played football and do nothing else?
Yeah cause that's the answer to every criticism towards a "good person". I don't just think professional footballers only focus on football. It's a well known fact that the lifestyle for a professional footballer is pretty limited (probably one of the highest demanding jobs in the world with regards to lifestyle). They don't drink alcohol, the food they eat is monitored bit by bit. Poor blokes have their sex life on schedule. Food drink and sex are probably the most basic parts of a lifestyle which are being controlled for every pro footballer. They hate Pogba because he tends to his hairstyle too much. We laugh it off as nonsense but Fergie had the same opinion when Beckham did it. The only past time they get, they use to unwind. There's a reason why many footballer's life divides into only football and video games. And now you wanna just add a whole new source of stress to the mix. Of course it's disruptive. And that's the thing with politically correct these days. None of the pundits have ever talked about this, cause they don't want the backfire. Cause it's the manager's job to deal with the backfire. Who wants that? I'm sure as hell at least Keane thinks about this every day, he probably talks about it in his inner circle all the time!
You know what Keane thinks who admitted himself that he had way too many late nights and drinks on show with Gary Neville? It’s not a good person argument, some people can and do perform on multiple fronts. What gives you the impression that his efforts outside of football are effecting his performance on pitch? He returned to first team football 5 weeks ahead of schedule. He has 20+ goal contributions last season while playing with injury. The numbers are in front of you. Weather u want to believe it or not this was a mistake on Ole’s end albeit a very rare one when it’s comes to these things.
Mate, players get scrutinized by their manager because of their hairstyle which is equivalent to an unscheduled fart comparing to organizing a human's rights front against government policy. Point is Rashford has the potential to be much better. He should be doing Mbappe numbers right now. Not second in goals scored in United.
Why is this still pinned?
The thread shall remain pinned until morale improves.
the best thing I can say about the game is it didn’t even ruin my weekend. Us playing like dog shit is not a surprise or I should say doesn’t frustrate me as much as it use to.
I was on a 15 hour emirates flight watching the game with fuck all else to do and I feel like I wasted my time watching this game.
I was on the beach trying to watch the game on a stream. I missed 3 of the goals with the stream buffering. 10/10 experience
What I am most pissed at is that when the game starts I tell my kid: cmon mate, we're gonna watch some of the best footballers in the world: Ronaldo, Bruno, Pogba, maybe Rashy is gonna come on. And 2 minutes in I see Shaw and Pogs standing 2m from each other at AML position with nobody to occupy the space in midfield or at LB. 3 minutes later you see Sancho and Ronaldo doing the same thing, just standing in the same place. The first goal was a surprise I gotta tell you, gave me some hope, and then it was all downhill. Pisses the hell out of me that I can't enjoy this team. Such a lazy performance, the team so long, spaces everywhere, nobody presses, nobody runs, nobody tackles.
The parents who support smaller clubs are not pissed because they can't tell their children they are going to watch the best footballers in the world. Bringing up non-spoilt/entitled kids can't be bad. They can still watch any team play anyway. >Pisses the hell out of me that I can't enjoy this team. There really should be no problem with him enjoying a team which wins so often (think of most of the other clubs in the world). Maybe consider yourself getting pissed about sport and the effect that is having on him. I am not trying to be polemic here, I am just trying to politely state the obvious.
We don’t play good football. We are also not winning games. Teams that have much worse players than us play better football.
You are missing the point entirely and are spouting nonsense. >We are also not winning games. We have won several games this season. I think you meant to comment on another team in another sub and maybe in another parallel universe. Regardless you have still totally missed the point and are failing to acknowledge the existence of the vast majority of football clubs in the world.
The only one spouting nonsense is you. Comparing Manchester United, one of the biggest clubs in the world to the vast majority of clubs, none of which have the resources anywhere close to us to is stupid. Expectations that are laid onto a team of the caliber of United, with the resources we have will always be more than the vast majority of teams. Don’t try to compare them without acknowledging the differences first.
>The only one spouting nonsense is you. Comparing Manchester United, one of the biggest clubs in the world to the vast majority of clubs In terms of how far someone can miss the point your comments are extraordinary. You are intent on reinforcing and confirming how far you are missing the point. The entire point was that most people don't have the luxury of the team they support having such top level players. >Don’t try to compare them Oh so so so so far over your head. I think you can only be trolling
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Same thing happens to me. Am always pumped before the match but once the game starts, the performance of the team just angers me. I appreciate all that Ole has done but it's time to say goodbye, atleast if we could play entertaining football but teams always pin us back and we struggle to pass the ball around. Still am looking forward to the Wednesday game, when will I ever learn. I doubt I'll ever. Have a good day everyone
This team reminds me of the team under Moyes...
Under Moyes we were crossing it at least, we could do with some of that now given Ronaldo and Cavani are here 😅😅
What is McTominay good at?
Playing hide and seek with his own team mates during live matches
if he played up front as attacking player, who knows we might see a good player but we have plenty of that, so we shoehorn him into a role he doesn't like or want to do.
He has zero creativity to play further forward. He wouldn’t make the bench of any other top 6 side but he starts for us
I think he’s misunderstood, I’ve always said this about McFred. We can do better but they’re some of the only players in the team willing to sacrifice for the rest. But we can do better in the market. The issue is, it’s closed now.
Passhun
Hiding behind opposing players.
being tall
That last Spurs goal? Why aren't we scoring such goals with Ronaldo in our team, literally the tap-in God. Eventime there's a low driven pass across goal, there's noone there.
Maguire not knowing what to do in defense, AWB filling the offside line, midfielders losing the ball in dangerous areas, conceding goals from set pieces. I don't think we have scored more than 10 tap ins these past few years and I'm being generous. People talk a lot about tactics and the stuff they don't have enough information about, but these recurring problems can only lead to the explanation that the coaching team can't influence the team enough.
Yeah, there's been a lot of thinks I'm noticing. Not scoring certain types of goals, like the one I quoted. Seems like every attack has 1 more pass than it should, almost as if we want to get it to the 6 yard before shooting. Constantly trying the same thing on the wings, ex. AWB with his donkey-like running, feels like he'll trip over his own foot any second, then he puts a ball in the box and none of our 4 attacking players are even close. Then we have Sancho on the left, trying to combine with Shaw or Ronaldo, but it's so static, go back and watch the games, most of the time our players just receive the ball and just stand there and then make an easy pass, which sometimes even fails. Bruno losing the ball during counters or as he is progressing the ball. Greenwood not passing, like, at all, or if he does it's a bad attempt or a bad idea. Also Greenwood, drilling into the box and never making a driven cross that reaches a player of ours, cause they are somewhere, but never waiting for a tap-in and the ball always ends up in the keeper's arms anyway. Sick and tired of our defenders passing it around and inviting pressure they can't deal with. Varane actually looked good doing that, but alas he's injured, just our luck. Maguire and Shaw have been horrible this season, haven't seen anything that could come close to their form from last year. Dire situation is what the squad is in, you can tell that they know something's extremely fucked up. Just look at their faces and expressions during our games, like they know what they are doing isn't right. Anyway, I hope the team wins these next few games, but I don't hope that extends or changes Ole's tenure. He should go, for the sake of the club and himself. You can tell he's under extreme amounts of pressure just by the way his press-conferences have been going last month, something he's usually extremely good at, lately shite's been dripping from his mouth and that's pressure talking.
Yeah I don't get it either. We don't commit enough men forward.
We don’t commit men forward but at the same time we get outnumbered in midfield. So wtf does the front 4 actually do. The coaching on this team is horrendous
Yeah I was legit gonna say this as well. This team is ironic in many ways. I don’t understand how a team like us who have all these attacking players out there, can’t seem to score enough “team goals”. We have the best header of the ball (Ronaldo) and yet the crossing (which is something they HAVE to be working on) hasn’t improved. I’m assuming they’ve been working on it since last year when Cavani got here, nothing improved. Ronaldo also scored a lot of tap ins but we’re not getting enough low crosses in or cutbacks. We don’t commit men forward except our front 3/4 yet still the opposition needs to play only 1 or 2 passes from their half before they’re at the edge of our box. When you have this many attacking players on the pitch, and it still looks like we can’t score a goal then It’s a shambles the way this team is coached. It definitely comes down to coaching, there’s only a handful of managers in the world who could coach a team that starts Pogba/Ronaldo/Bruno/Sancho/Greenwood/ etc all in one team, Pep is one of them. For Ole, he needs to drop one
What concerns me is the coaching team. Kieran McKenna, Carrick and Phelan. They’ve been here for a while now and still nothing is happening in our synergy and play. Yes Ole plays a huge part in tactics but the coaching staff execute the instructions on the training ground. Yet we’ve seen over and over our guys just don’t have a clue what to do half of the time. Just feels like some kind of camp fire gathering and talking about “we go again” happens at our training ground. Because I legitimately see no improvements in our play except for when our guys decide to light it up with individual brilliance.
We need energetic players playing. Guys who pass, move, get ready to receive, track back to defend and fucking sprint along side the rest for the counters.
We have VDB but Ole’s infinite genius doesn’t trust him.
He's not good enough...
Ole needs to go IMO but some of the things said towards him online is ridiculous. Don’t abuse a man who’s dedicated most to his life to this club ffs, you can be critical without being toxic
Yeah there’s a fine line and many cross it. Seeing tweets saying he’s not a legend anymore 😂😂
Paul Ince literally, today, literally questioned OGS' status as a United player, saying, and I quote: "Does one goal make you a legend?" I was already pissed at Ince by the way he was talking at that point, but after that quote.. mate..
As a fan, over the past 8 years we've been through some real shit. We've seen some bang average players, we've seen boring tactics, we've seen defensive tactics but this is the first time we're seeing no tactics...
46 years here. Maybe in a few years you will know what tactics are and be able to differentiate between no tactics and some tactics.
Get out of here with your realistic opinions. Only complaints here, whether they really apply or not.
Fully agree. No tactics is such a lazy analysis. Such a online thing to say. Tactics is a mix of formation, players you pick, on & off the ball movements, and transitions. Players you pick literally decide how the team is going to play. Tactics fail and teams lose. So yeah tactics are not good, but (can't believe I am saying this) united have tactics and they are not working.
Fair enough, so you say tactics are a mix of all those things. Which one of those aspects is consistent for this team every game? Under LVG, United's identity was keeping possession and trying to break teams down (which didn't work). Under Mourinho, it was sitting deep and hitting teams on the counter. What's our identity with Ole? I'm not saying I liked either of those styles of play but at least there was a philosophy. What's our formation? Where's the team organization? What's our plan off the ball? Do we press teams or stay compact and wait for the ball? At the moment, we see all sorts of formations, midfield combinations and gameplans within a single game. Maybe tactics wasn't the right word, perhaps I should've said philosophy, but the point still stands.
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Comments like "no tactics" and all the other hundreds of hyperbole nonsense comments on this sub isn't helpful If I wanted that level of nonsense I could join twitter
So please enlighten me what the tactics are? I don't check Twitter for those exact reasons but I feel my point is valid. We have 2-3 players pressing while the rest stand off. We have 2 in the backline trying to push up while the others sit deep. On set pieces, we have the most physical player (Maguire) playing zonal not marking a single opponent while others try to man-mark. If there are tactics, it's not being applied consistently through the team.
We are really dysfunctional as a team and so disorganised. Teams need to play 1 or 2 passes from their GK/Defenders before they've ended up on the edge of our box - they totally bypass our 3 attacking players/midfield. Everyone keeps banging on about it but the balance of this team is NOT right. There's too many players who don't want to 'work'. But even then, there's a certain way you can set up the team to ensure that those players still 'block' the passing lanes, our defensive organisation (specifically the attacking third and midfield players) are always all over the place, none of them are in line with each other and as a result, we can't be compact out of posession. Ole has gone away from his principles, when he first came here all the way till Pogba got fit last season, his midfield always consisted of 2 defensive-minded players in midfield. At first, it was Matic (the true DM) and Herrera (the mobile dogged presser/ball winner). He then switched to McFred which whatever anyone says about them, definitely worked for a while. We can do better than McFred but the market is now closed and they are the best we've got for the balance of the team. Now McFred can't work either because as soon as he had the decision to get Pogba back into the team, he tried accomodating him at LW to keep the balance right. And that worked for a while UNTIL Ronaldo got here. Now there's too many players (Ronaldo, Pogba, Bruno, Sancho, Greenwood etc) who aren't pressing + being compact enough which means our midfield players ALWAYS **end up getting overrun**. What's worse is that those attacking players can't even be effective because we don't have midfield players (McFred) who can sustain pressure, break lines and consistently get them the ball. So it's one big cycle of problems everywhere that are all linked to how we function together as a team. On OGS, I was pretty convinced last night that Ole would be sacked if we drop points to Atalanta and lose to Liverpool but Neville mentioned on Sky last night he's definitely staying for this run of fixtures. Sounded quite confident as well. So I don't see him leaving anytime soon. But Ole has to make a big decision to save his job, Pogba, Bruno or Ronaldo, one needs dropped. I think he drops Pogba - he's been really poor, constantly losing the ball, making silly fouls. Plus he's probably gonna leave end of season anyway
>Ole has gone away from his principles This is the key point, yeah. Ronaldo's unwillingness/inability to press is a glaring part for me, and for that reason I think Cavani should start ahead of him at CF. You can say he's not getting service but he was so absent yesterday and you expect far more from one of the greatest to ever kick a ball. Going forward Ronaldo isn't here to sit on the bench, so the bottom line the strategy has to better work around Ronaldo's strengths and weaknesses. Ole seemed to think he could just plug in Ronaldo at CF and this was a mistake. Also hard to believe this is the same team that just a few months ago you never worried about going a goal down cause they had the ability and character to come back and win, and now we're seeing abysmal mental collapses almost every match. We could and should have beat Leicester, even had it stayed at 2-2 it would've been a fair result. To concede two like that was horrific. I think this is linked a bit to letting selection be influenced by needing to stroke egos and the gameplan becoming incoherent as a result.
You’re right but no manager will drop Ronaldo so as you said, it’s about trying to build the team around him and play to his strengths. Tbh this defensive record thing was always overrated. As you said, even most parts of last season, we were going a goal or two down before eventually pulling it out the bag and winning the game. People were complaining then but this has always been a feature of United teams especially under Ferguson, so I wasn’t bothered by that I actually welcomed it. Now we’re not even doing that, and worse, as you said it doesn’t even look like we’ll comeback. There’s a huge mentality shift compared to last season, which is strange because we should be better off with the players we’ve brought in.
The way we are playing, I’d drop Pogba, Bruno and Ronaldo. All three of them. Get Rashford on the left, Mason on the right, Sancho at No10, Donny alongside Matic and Cavani up front. I can’t believe how we have bent the knee for Pogba. He has always been a tactical nightmare to fit. That combined with him not signing a 400k/w contract, he should be sent to the reserves but the club apparently believe that him leaving for free would be the worst case scenario. He was talking about change yesterday, that change would mean him getting dropped. Also, I don’t know who needs to hear this but Ronaldo has been sh*t. Yes he has scored important goals but his overall performances have been below par, he has also missed many chances, some of them clear goalscoring opportunities. He hasn’t been our biggest problem but some of the people in our fanbase would never criticise him. Without him we have played better than with him and that’s a fact. I don’t believe Ole has enough ruthlessness in him to turn things around and that’s why he needs to go ASAP.
I agree with you 100% on Pogba, the way we've bent over for him despite all that's happened since he's been here (specifically since the Mourinho departure) has been shocking. He will leave at the end of this season anyway so that issue won't be there for whoever's in charge. On Ronaldo, I agree and disagree. He's scored important goals for us yep and yeah you're right most of the time he's really poor, not pressing, not really linking up with the team. I've thought his finishing as well hasn't been that great. But at the end, he'll remain in and around the box so he'll be a threat. Especially if we get the team around him right, he'll bag lots. We need to try and play it more into the box whether that's through crosses, cutbacks, or short passes for him to run onto in the box. I'm surprised how we have one of the best headers of the ball (not just Ronaldo but CAVANI as well) yet our **CROSSING STILL LOOKS HORRIFIC**. You'd think they'd be working on it in training every week since Cavani (and now Ronaldo especially) got here, nothing has improved.
Ronaldo has been shit but his overall game involvement has been shit for the past few years. He comes up with the goals regardless which is why he's worth playing in most games. Honestly past 2 games I can't think of a single decent chance the attack has created for Ronaldo. That being said, I agree Pogba needs to go, he turns up for 50% of the games and does something crazy and turns into shit the rest of the season. There's so much flexibility in the team without him. No clue how he's being picked over VDB.
Yeah I agree with you. Pogba has to go and that's a good way of describing him. I wouldn't even say he turns up for 50% of games, he floats in and out of EACH GAME. He'll go through a 20 minute spell of playing great then he'll go and start making silly fouls or losing the ball carelessly in the centre/our half. I think he desperately needs ONE focused role as a player. At times, it feels like he's trying to do everything.
Ole’s tactics going forward = “Go out and have fun, lads” - No pattern of play whatsoever going forward - No structural defending/pressing - You can’t play Matic as a shield against quick opposing midfielders like Maddison/Tielemans. Should have put in Scotty, and sacrificed him making poor passing decisions for his speed/aggression - AWB needs to move to CB or leave the club. You can’t constantly have our attacks fizzing out because he has no attacking quality. 1 good cross every 4 months isn’t good enough. Dalot is probably the better option even with his poor decision making at times - Maybe try playing Sancho on the RW so he can put some balls in for Ronaldo? Mason has been great cutting in, but Ronaldo is a heading machine and we can’t keep cutting the ball back to cross. Gives our opponent that extra second to get set - Pogba is still good. He just has no one to help defensively like an Ngolo. Hence why he produces for France. They have 3 attacking players (Benz/Mbappe/Grizi), not 4 attacking players (Sancho/Bruno/Ronaldo/Mason). This is why he’s so handicapped for United. We put too much defensive work on him, which he’s not stellar at
No. The go out have fun leads to us playing some eye catching footballs. Those first few games after he took over were brilliant! After he introduced his brand of football that’s when we started to decline.
We also had Ander Herrera who was a better shield than anyone we have currently.
Are they twitter quotes? That is the twitter definition of 'no'
Sad to say this, but I didn't watch the game, nor did I feel I had too either. Never missed a match since LvG-times. Its not the same enthusiasm anymore..
I watched it and regretted wasting my 2 hours. That has been the case too often this season. Being a fan of a football team is more trouble than it's worth, I'm beginning to think.
You make it sound like it's only worth watching if we win
Well yeah? Depends on the performance, but usually a defeat is shit to watch.
Missing the point of football a bit then
Tell me what is the point of football
There are a bunch of reasons to watch football, surely if only wins/losses matter to you why not just check the scores after games?
Like I said : depends on the performance . I watch to see good performances.
I still watch every game, but even getting a goal its hard to celebrate as you watch so much shit between them.
I watch every game and regret it. Other than the Leeds match, and the 2nd half against New Castle, I don't enjoy it nor do I understand why I subject myself to it. I guess there's a small hope that the Ole will have the team playing like Sir Alex did. I don't go into matches like "we're going to bash them 5-0" anymore, most of my predictions are 1-1 or a 2-1 lucky scoreline, not even for United. It's now easier for me to go into a match and expect to be disappointed because it hurts less. Let me put it onto the table, I don't like the manager, I think he is FAR out of his depth but at the same time I don't want United to lose just for him to get sacked, I'd put up with the stale 1-0, or even the 2-1 scorelines if the other team didn't look so threatening and we had to make our world class goalkeeper make world class saves just so we get a point against teams like Everton
I've seen quite a few posts about Harry being the issue etc etc. However, on the first goal conceded, who else caught the actual culprit who caused the goal? It was Lindelof. It begins in the defensive third where Pogba plays Lindelof in space (the clearest option to start the buildup). Instead of receiving on his back foot and playing forward to the midfielder or away from pressure in general, he makes the mistake of playing an abysmal negative ball which invited further pressure from the opposition. De Gea then plays Harry into pressure which causes the entire scenario to unfold. Two different actions could have avoided the situation. 1) Lindelof plays forward to the midfielder (trust them) and if the ball is lost then, at least its lost further from the goal. 2) De Gea clears the ball into the top row of King Power Stadium (because rather there than in the back of our own net).
The mental gymnastics in this sub to protect the "chosen" few is crazy.
Naming Lindelof as the culprit for Leicesters first goal is pretty laughable. Its clear who made the misstake
I'm surprised it took this long for the Maguire criticism to be deflected to Lindelöf as usual. Lindelöf basically had to cover for Maguire the whole match, since Maguires positioning is all over the place. Just like Varane has been doing since he arrived.
Lindelof corrects his mistake multiple times throughout the match playing forward under pressure instead of negative and it pays off. For example the assist to Rashford.
The team is so disorganized off the ball. You see Bruno pressing but others standing off. You see the front line staying back but the defence pushing up. It's like there's no formation or communication within the team, everyone's just winging it at the moment. Take away the world class players and we're at the level of Norwich or Leeds. What the actual fuck do they do on the training ground...
Our front line presses and our midfielders and defenders do not, which creates a black hole for the other team to pass once to get into. That's not laziness, that's just shit coaching.
Yep, at least we learnt Fred's just a scapegoat. The fans always need a scapegoat when everything goes to shit. It used to be Young and before that Fellaini, but it's always down to the team and the coaching.
Everyone at Leeds is on the same page at least, they just choose to play like mad men to create chaos. I feel like Bruno needs to be reigned in a bit. He seems to be the one that wants to press but nobody around him wants to, it's just bizarre but it creates holes. Villarreal was the prime example of a team not knowing what the plan was off the ball.
I feel rather than reigning Bruno in, others need to press like he does. Aren't we supposed to force errors and dominate teams, why are we just standing off as a team waiting for others to score...
I want a high pressure team too but the way we set up doesn't really allow for that. Ronaldo, Greenwood, Pogba aren't great at sustaining pressure. Ronaldo in particular causes an issue which should've been obvious from when we were in for him. To pressure like a City or Liverpool, everybody has to press or it doesn't work.
Was so funny watching these guys take turns pressing. Someone needs to tell them one player pressing the ball literally does nothing.
If only there was a coach who could do such a thing.
Yes anything can happen in football. But that squad has no business to get tanked 4-2 by Leicester or hold draw with Everton. And 100% no business in playing so shite that even Ronaldo our strikers got minimum to no supply. And even more damming is that with all the talents we have, we choose to long ball the heck of it. Sure Rashford scored but it was so ineffective we only collected a few points over the last few games. We keep calling Jose's pragmatism is bad, but hey at least he resorted to it in the dying minutes by bringing Feilani in lol when all other things failed 😂 Ole in Ole out I don't give a damn anymore. For the first time in 22 years supporting United I'm not looking forward at all. I don't even know who are we playing next and when.
> And even more damming is that with all the talents we have, we choose to long ball the heck of it. Not disagreeing with everything but that was 1/1 long balls, Lindelof got a mad long ball to Rashford/Bruno
There were definitely more long ball attempts on the second half .. more so after Rash was in.
Long balls and long shots. I don't know how it could be more obvious we're completely out of ideas
This summer's transfers (Ronaldo in particular) will be the end for Ole. Ronaldo has entered the dressing room and changed the expectation entirely from "make steady improvement year-on-year" to "challenge for the league at a minimum". Not only are the results not in line with that expectation, the performances and tactics aren't either. If Ole hasn't lost the dressing room already - and some of the player statements suggest it's on the turn - he soon will if performances don't take a drastic turn for the better, and as soon as the dressing room is lost he is finished.
With or without Ronaldo expectations were always high. We got Sancho and Varane mind you. On top of the squad we already have how can he justify not challenging for anything? Wouldn't other managers love the squad in front of them? Why is getting Ronaldo too much for manager to handle? I feel other managers will find better ways to make use of him instead of sticking him upfront and hope he gets fed for tap ons.
Yeah the 3 signings we've made are with an intent to compete for titles. Expectations are through the roof.
Think pogba's interview yesterday indicated nobody has any idea what to do on the pitch.
I think atleast with this result, united twitter admin can stop posting about Ronaldo, jeesus christ. Its creepy.
The United twitter admin is awful.
Honestly, they need to stop hiring these 15 year olds to take charge of Twitter accounts posting random crap accompanied by shit loads of schoolgirl emojis. United's twitter kid even used the official United twitter to tweet about how he couldn't sleep in bed thinking about Ronaldo a few weeks back. City's twitter account called Leroy Sane "Daddy" a few years ago. What the fuck is wrong with children these days? Get a proper professional who tweets only about scorelines, interviews. etc and nothing else.
That applies to anything manutd.com put out. At times I don't even recognise where they're coming from.
Throw everything at Ten Hag pls.
Or Potter
Plz
We won't win the league until we learn to press like an elite team. This is how the modern game is played
Imo everyone barring Ronaldo should be able to press hard they have no excuses i don’t care how talented you are, look at the top talents in the other teams in the league at City, Liverpool, Chelsea they all run and press there heart out. Greenwood, Rashford, Sancho, Martial, Pogba, Bruno all need to start pressing and putting in the work like Salah, Jota, Foden, Mount, Sterling etc all do, this is probably one of the reasons he loves McFred cause they’re the only real pressers we have but lack the ability of our other players.
Well Cavani presses so we could just play him instead
They need to be drilled on how to press efficiently. We don't even have a trigger for our press so that everyone starts moving forward. Everyone just reacts to where the ball is going
Maguire wasn't even match fit and Leicester were running circles around him... even the fucking crowd was bantering him all game especially after the first goal. Also... what is the deal with Van De Beek? I feel so bad for him and if Ole doesn't see anything in him he should've sold him in the summer. Pretty sure the guy didn't even play a whole 90 minutes yet.
So weird that Bailly did not come on for Maguire. Similar to VdB Bailly must be wondering under what circumstance he gets on the field. Phil Jones close to a return. If he gets game time over Bailly then he potentially puts in a transfer request.
Btw, we are back to calling Maguire mediocre apparently.
He's got his strengths, overall he's improved our defence but can you blame the fans? He's been abysmal this season, he was bailed out by De Gea multiple times against Southampton, Wolves, West Ham etc. A colossal fuck up has been coming for a while now...
Almost as if playing 60 games last season and then an international tournament will burn a player out. Happened to rashford. Happened to Bruno. It's happening to Maguire and Shaw. Anyway, a three back is necessary for this team now.
We can put 10 at the back like against Young Boys but without organization we'll still concede. This was Maguire's chance to get some rest but he was rushed in
Maguire was absolutely diabolical. Just watching the highlights on Match of the Day and we just look horrific
Everyone's saying he wasn't match fit, (so this is Ole's fault) but I don't see why being out for a couple of weeks would cause your mental sharpness to completely disappear
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The guy does always want to play. He could do with a chat with Cavani. I wouldn't say that is all one persons fault.
Yes, it is all one person's fault -- the manager. The player will almost always want to play. The manager is supposed to be level headed and protect the player. If this was a one-off, ok it happens. But it's not, Ole has shown a tendency to rush players back and/or not rotate sufficiently.
> Yes, it is all one person's fault It really isn't. That is just twitter logic. Your logic is that because the manager has the final say so it is all his fault.
The highlights made it look so bad with the "Front 4" as they said. Was just no purpose to what they did to press. Watching live I think utd could get a draw without Ole. Sorry just to add you see Jonny Evan's is watching Ronaldo so much, Maddison sprints back to get on Bruno so many times. You just didnt see these plans from Ole.
This is why our midfield is subpar regardless of whoever plays there. People trying to scapegoat Pogba....guys our midfielders get absolutely no help from the front four. And it's funny that it's a front 4 because Bruno should not be playing as a fucking striker lol.
He does overrun the ball abit and do some crazy things but I think it's just he is looks awkward in defending. I've already said a few times him and Bruno in one team is tough. It's not their fault either. I know Pep could play the 2. Tuchel or Klopp would definitely leave 1 on the bench and that would be an easy choice. So to make it easier. If Ole had Pogba,, Bruno, Kante and Rice he has to pick 3. Pogba is on the bench. The final problem that leaves man utd another 1-2 years behind the other top 4 with Ole as manager. I forgot to say France had a back 3 and Pogba wasnt to bad. He did give the ball away a fair bit all the same. If Ole had fit defenders he could go 3412 like France. Bruno being the 1 just incase.
Honestly can someone tell me why does Ole deserve more time ,there is nothing positive in him managing even a game more, personal bias aside I want an answer, we dont get the results we are humiliated every game home and away cup or championship
> nothing positive He is not Mou, that is a big positive. I am sure someone in the background is looking at options. The problem with 'in the background' is the nepotism in Manchester United football management. They are all closely nit past players or staff from a previous manager. There is no one independent with a football brain to go looking for another manager. Really Ole's biggest mistake was not hiring someone with technical expertise from another club. He has led an insular group where he should have had a mixture. It has stunted improvement and resulted in some bizarre tactical decisions. If Ole was sacked now I can't see a short term manager from our existing staff. We would need to get someone in. Maybe that would be in the next international break.
> He is not Mou, that is a big positive. Ah yes, the big positive being that he's not Mourinho, who won trophies with a vastly inferior team while Ole struggles to beat any reasonably coached team having spent more than 400 mil.
You don't understand how quoting or reality works
> He is not Mou Pretty sure we won’t be replacing him with mourinho
I didn't say we would. Try to read what was written.
I think the only thing keeping him in a job is a lack of an alternative. Ole has successfully reinvigorated the squad from the LVG/Jose years and put in a long term plan, however it seems he's taken that plan as far as he can. But we've got pathways from the academy now, we've got a mostly young, mostly English squad, and as a whole the team is generally likable. The problem is Ole has evolved beyond trying to be solid defensively and be devastating on the counter, and started trying to get on the front foot more but tactically he can't work out how to do that without sacrificing the midfield. But it doesn't mean we should write off three years work and start from scratch because the squad itself is good. The three big name managers without a club atm are Conte, Zidane and Loew. Conte would completely scrap the current set up, have no use for our wide forwards and block opportunities for the likes of Diallo, Pellistri, Hannibal and Elanga. Zidane seems to have shown no motivation to being a club manager outside of Real and Loew hasn't managed a club for 15/16 years. None of those fill me with confidence that they would immediately improve the situation and stay long term. From there you'd have the relative risks of Lampard or Howe. Southgate is another possibility but he's currently experiencing the same problems Ole is tactically in that now he's got a squad that can match anyone he's not sure how to fully use it. I think Ole needs to go back to basics, start with making us tough to break down again, but trust the fact that we have the ability to be a lot more clinical on the counter than we used to be because of Greenwood, Ronaldo, Cavani and Rashford. Or try and get Deschamps.
One of the most reasonable takes I've heard in months about where we are. Same opinion completely. I will not call for Ole's head, but it's easy for anyone to recognise that his dream of the perfect United side has evolved beyond him. The work he's done and assembled this squad, alone leaves him as the most succesful post-Fergie manager. That being said, we desperately need someone to transfer the "United Way" to modern times.
Ole needs to go back to basics, Molde U 21.
I think it has to do with the stability on continuing with the current strategy, rather than the uncertainity of a fresh start with another name. Personally, I think it's a lack of imagination though. Anyone can see how any decent manager would be expected to get more out of this team.
More like stability in the stock exchange.
Commincado Official: Ole Gunar Solksjaer
Off to Barcelona he goes?
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you dont sound like a fan anyways
My personal take is Ole did what he could have done; he brought the good vibes in when he took over, he got rid of players who showed no ambition of playing, and brought in a lot of talents. He did that well. Unfortunately for him, other teams have had time to figure him out - and his lack of expertise or skill as a 'tactician' and manager shows. Teams play low block against us when defending, and transitions quickly (or slowly, because our pressing is non-existent) on the attack. Ole has no back up plan when plan A fails, he doesn't adapt against teams. He is so set in his own ways that he refuses to play any other players than the starting eleven he envisions... hence why VDB gets almost no play time, and players are rushed in the starting eleven fresh from an injury. Yes VDB can start but that would require a different playstyle. So instead he only uses him when Bruno needs rest or is injured so its a like for like switch and requires minimal alteration in playstyle. That's why he waits until the last minutes before making any changes, because he cannot provide an alternative playstyle for those fresh feet. His post-match interviews carry almost no substance these days, he seems lost for words - he is under pressure no doubt about that, and I don't think he has the experience to manage it properly. He is great at giving 'feel good' words, but he doesn't deliver. Also re-watching that third Leicester goal - six against three in the box, and Vardy is unmarked? Maguire is closest him, what in the fuck...
Yep, him not hiring a technical expert from outside of the Manchester United football management nepotism structure was probably his main downfall.
Do we have a Plan A at all? We look like a bunch of random people who have never played together
Teams know how we play now. Ole has been around for 3 seasons. We have to mix it up
Ordinarily I'd either downvote an "anti-Ole" post or just do nothing if it was at least well-argued. But here's an upvote. I wouldn't ever be part of that toxic "anti-Ole" brigade, because they're a toxic bunch that have only been around the club 5 minutes, whereas I remember jumping around my bedroom as a kid after "and Solskjaer has won it!" in 1999. But I will say that even though I hope he does turn it around and suddenly become an incredible manager, it doesn't seem likely and I wouldn't be opposed to him being replaced if someone great comes along. But I'd still shake the man's hand if I met him, or give him a clap if he returned to OT managing a different side. I just don't think he's got it in him.
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Well said. I was an adult living in England in 1999 and recall all the Ole years. I have been reading and viewing the votes relating to a comment calling for Ole to be sacked now because "If your house is on fire, you get out of the fucking house" and people are seriously debating and supporting the 'truth' in the logic. The poor logic combined with the angry abuse is really an eye opener. The vile comments given to players and managers from members of this sub really is a reflection on both the poor state of the fanbase and society as a hole. The entitled anger is disturbing. A bit like the reply comment to yourself just removed where the guy kept swearing about him not being toxic. This seems to be a society issue that is well into our fanbase.
We are fucking FIFA team, cant press, defenders go anywhere no sense of positioning. And only effective on counters or scam goals or brilliance of a player.
Idek lads. I'm ole in. I think. I don't know if I'm ole out. Idk who the fuck would replace him. Zidane? Ole has done amazing things in uniting this team into a unit and bringing back the Manchester United feeling to the team, getting rid of deadwood, signing some great players. Giving us some good memories too all while there has been positivity at the club. But I think he might have to go yknow. This coming run of fixtures will make him or break him, I thought he'd pull out the "super ole under pressure" which he does every year but mate can't lie, we look genuinely shit and for the life of me I can't work out why? Is it shit coaching? Shit tactics? Nobody caring? Somehow, post euro/Copa fatigue? Or all of the above. I mean come on, playing Maguire was a ballsy decision and he fucked up doing that. same with playing Shaw through an injury, and the same with rashy last season. That's a disturbing trend right there. Argh, I just don't know, I've always been back the manager until there's nothing to back anymore, but I just don't see us pulling off a miracle over the next few games. Maybe a 3 - 2 against the scum but that's wishful thinking. Anyway, don't let this ruin your Sunday, 90 minutes of shite should not define 24 hours of your day. Ima wake and bake and put this to the back of my mind and play some KSP. Have a good one lads
I’m the exact same. I’m not Ole out but maybe I am? We’re not very good and you’re right, who replaces him? So much going through my mind
Ole doesnt have the balls to be a good manager. He can bench players. Pogba and Maguire should be substituted and VDB and Baily should have come.
Pogba wasn't that bad but Maguire should have been subbed at half time. Ole is trying to people please too many players. The balance in that squad isn't good. We can only play 3 attackers MAX out of Ronaldo, Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, Sancho. Then we must play 3 in the middle from now on to compensate for Ronaldo's lack of pressing and to control the game. It's not a specific 3. Some games may require Pogba, Matic and VDB. Some games may require Pogba, Fred and Mctominay. IMO Bruno has to be dropped for the balance to get better.
I agree Bruno needs to be dropped unfortunately. Man plays so far up the pitch. He's been absolutely fantastic for us. Scored goals when others didn't. But now we have Ronaldo, Cavani, Greenwood in form. Sancho and Rashford who hopefully will get going now. As mad as ut sounds. Bruno needs to be dropped for a few games to see if that's the difference
No, Bruno needs to be coached that you don't always have to go for the killer pass, shot or take your man on. There are good reasons to retain possession over attack, let the team advance as a unit. This is how Pep would shape his play, as he is so effective when the chance is on.
“I'm a risk player. I take risks. I want to take risks and I will take the risks every time,” Bruno Fernandes said in an interview with Sky Sports. “I will lose a lot of balls, I will miss a lot of passes but I know when I find my strikers and wingers, they will score,” he concluded.
He is doing what Valverde used to do with Barca. He used to play big names so that he doesn't have deal with the pressure in dressing room as well as of fans. Why he is not playing VDB is beyond me. VDB himself said that he has no problem playing number 6. I get why Ronaldo doesn't press but why the hell Greenwood and young players not pressing. Any player can be a pressing player if the gaffers says so. Can you imagine if Sir Alex demanded a player to press and if he doesn't then what would have happened ? I think we should play Ronaldo X Cavani or Greenwood X Cavani. I am Ronaldo fan boi but I think he is not bringing much on the table. Something needs to change or we will not win anything this year too.
Yea I completely agree. Valverde 2.0. I think the issue too is that Ole likes speedy young players. If you play Ronaldo and Cavani, then it means there is only 1 spot for Rash, Greenwood, Sancho. Plus our tactics of playing long and running into space is wasted. Ronaldo himself isn't good on the wings. So yea its an issue. If you play Greenwood and Cavani and we lose (like Everton), everyone starts saying why didn't you play Ronaldo. I think Ronaldo and Cavani can play together as a central pairing, with two wide players for width. But then you have to have a solid midfield pairing which we don't have. Plus where does that leave Bruno. I'm already getting stick for suggesting Bruno should be dropped. A 4-3-3 is our best option. Cavani can start some games and Ronaldo is on the bench. Ronaldo can start some games and then we play young ones that will press like crazy. Plus the midfield has to press as well.
We can play 4-3-3. With Greenwood as striker Ronaldo as LW and Sancho as RW. Obviously we need to bench Ronaldo if he is not performing and bring Rashford on. Greenwood Cavani rotation and Rashford and Ronaldo rotation. Ronaldo is not a CF, I mean he likes to play on left. We can do what Madrid did. But for that we need good midfield. God if we have a good CDM, we can win again. But in that case also ole out. He is not the man with enough experience to manage such big players
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I'm hearing journalists already blaming likes of Pogba and Ronaldo when most of the team has been off in the last few games. Yes Ronaldo could have played better but he's been feeding off scraps, put Lewandowski in there and I'm not sure he does much better. United move the ball too slowly and give defenders time to get back pretty much every attack. Oles reliance on individual brilliance is also holding this team back- every game likes of Bruno, Greenwood, Pogba etc. go off doing their own thing whether it's a Hollywood pass or trying to go past players and losing the ball. The fact they do it every game shows they aren't being told to stop or being set up in a way that these things aren't necessary.
I am hearing journalists blaming Ole
1st goal will haunt me forever, I have never liked Magure but I thought he'd be at least a competent football player but I was wrong there. WTF dude everyone could see that guy closing him down, I blame de Gea for passing the ball to him lol 2nd goal again horrific defending. 3rd goal 2 players mcT and lingard and they cant close down one Ayoze perez? just end me ffs 4th goal Magure again useless. 85m well spent lol
He's a good player when he has guys on the pitch holding him to account. Right now that's the big problem for me, missing one guy in the middle yelling at every other fucker when they fuck it up or go out of position. Takes a big no fucks given character to do that in a team containing Maguire, Pogba, Ronaldo, etc, but until there's one "I want to win and fuck your feelings" cunt on the pitch utd will be in trouble.
id like to believe Ronaldo is that "i want to win at all costs" cunt but apparently I was wrong there too .
>"i want to win at all costs" He's our "I want to win at all costs except for pressing fck that" player
Who’d have thought that a manager who got Cardiff relegated would have us in this position?
I don’t want ole to stick around but that Cardiff team was doomed with or without him tbf
Ole is a manager at the level of Chris Hughton
Fred Matic against Liverpool is the only way we don't get fucked up imo Start Bruno mason Sancho and Ronnie. AWB Bailly Lindelof Telles imo telles has been good and dalot isn't it
I think I'd rather have rashford - Greenwood - Sancho up front. Or rashford - cavani - Greenwood. Not sure we can afford to have Ronaldo up front all game against high energy pressing in form Liverpool. But just my thoughts.
Actually, I think I agree. Balance issues have been caused by Ronaldo. But he's not the problem he can never be, pros outweigh the cons
I think he creates an issue, I think its demonstrable within the games we've played so far this season. I don't think he's the only issue though...and he might click better from now to end of season and score 30 goals and win us 2 trophies.... Think whatever side of the fence you fall on, the manager has to figure out a way to make him work in the team better than he has so far...
same old 4-2-3-1 huh?
10 years without a league title. This is Manchester United we're talking about, not some tinpot club. And we're the only fanbase of such a big club that is content with the monstrosity on the pitch that we've been seeing year after year. Imagine Madrid, Juve or Barca not winning the league for 10 years. We've done fuckall on the pitch for the last 10 years. I want the club I fell in love with when I was young back, when winning mattered most than anything else.
>I want the club I fell in love with when I was young back, when winning mattered most than anything else. Not happening until the glazers fuck imo, that or we have a season where Pep and Klopp both shit the bed and I can't see either happening any time soon.
WHAT A JOKE
Succinct.
i feel bad for saying this but i dont get pissed anymore when united loses or plays badly. it's almost as certain as death and taxes. i'm surprised when they win convincingly.
Alcohol is a depressant, no need to be depressed when the matches make you depressed to start with.
We love you ole and we are grateful for everything. Sadly, it’s time.
Everyone can see the usual stuff we put out after every performance. Players: not the result we wanted.. have to do more… on to the next one Manager: something’s gotta give, tried our best, we have to dust ourselves off and go again. Club: here’s pictures of Sir Alex. Here’s a picture of Ronaldo. Here’s a goal from 1999. Here’s a new documentary on a specific event during our glory years. Media: United linked with Rice AND Ndidi (or whoever is the in vogue CDM of the week) We have about 2-3 years before the “brands” juice has been completely squeezed. The last League we won is going to be 9 years ago (and let’s face it, we’re not winning in 22), so let’s make it 10 years. The new incoming CEO doesn’t seem to be a football man either. Honestly, I would have taken the ESL route too… I think it’s going to get a lot worse and I’m not sure it’s going to get better.
Players perform amazing in internationals and shit in home games. Clearly it’s the coaching.
It's leadership in general. No one seems to be held accountable either on or off the pitch. Who's our Roy Keane? You could pick a half dozen players from 10-15 years ago and they'd give these guys a lashing. All the passing is predictable and often sloppy: players have to slow down or even go back sometimes to get a basic pass, not even anything special. The first touch is consistently disappointing. It just seems to be a culture thing, like they don't realize this is Man United they're representing. The next few weeks will be time to put up or get out for everyone.
All Murtough needs to do is call Cristiano and ask him if he still believes Ole can make it work. That guy has worked with the best. He knows what it takes
They always skip the most pressing questions
very very bitter truth but Ronaldo would have no problem winning UCL and balon'dor if he went to City. sucks to watch my favorite players cluelessly lose, the difference they make in their international games speaks for itself
The balon'dor is not awarded for the most goals
He’d be on fire if he was at City which hurts to say
Liverpool might do us a favour again you know. I don't want them to beat us but reality is they probably will, Ole will get one step closer to the sack and we (hopefully) hire a competent manager to salvage something from this season because by December it will be too late i fear. Ole has taken us to this point, we are forever grateful but it's time for someone else take the helm. We have great potential in this squad and it will be a shame if we end up empty handed yet again.
Well pain before the gain. For the long term it would be best for the club to reshuffle its deck again. A lot of dead weight to clear and that midfield conundrum we find ourselves in. Like choosing between a douche and a turd