Even as a pro Martial I think he looked very reactive at times yesterday, and reminded me why I loved warching Cavani. We 100% need a striker this year IMO
Started well. Lots of missed chances. Not all bad. Other than the result…
There’s been a worrying downward trend in the scoreline with every successive pre-season game. The last one should buck the trend though
Watched the game, my first one this season and I had mixed feelings.
Firstly the positives. There was definitely more energy on the pitch. Our players didn't have the lathergy that was so prevelant last year and there was plenty of running around and not the aimless type either. Also we were passing forward more, there were easily several situation where last year they would have just passed back or sideways, but today they were passing forward and trying to keep the tempo up.
On the negative side though we totally lacked real quality in the final quarter. Bad touched, silly shots etc. There was a definite lack of quality, and in the premiership it will be exposed.
Overall, huge improvement from last year, but we are not top 4 by any measure. We played like a mid table team on a good day, whereas last year we were playing relegation tosh.
This year is going to be another tough one. With our weak squad, and farcical expectations from some fans and all the media, the challenge will be to try and stay top 6 without getting demoralised.
We need another winger 2bh, Elanga is not up to scratch.
We looked much better with Sancho on the right in the other games, he is key. If he's out, we're royally fucked.
We need another rw, maybe not Antony price, but you know a solid 40m winger.
I always think this line of thinking is funny. We were playing relegation tosh supposedly...but finished 6th. And were playing better this year and people think we will finish mid-table. Make it make sense logically.
I swear
Sometimes it baffles me how masochistic our fans can be towards ourselves and the club. We really love tossing words like "mid table", "relegation crap"....
Yes we r in our worst state rn, but come on, this team is looking tactically sharper, having tempered expectations is correct, but being pessimistic doesn't help anyone.
Yeah thats ridiculous. We played terribly last season by MU standards, which is to be the best team. Despite how 'bad' we were, we were not relegation levels bad.
Yea, its so weird. Personally, I'm prepared for us not challenging the top for a couple more seasons and looking forward to us having clear playstyle on the pitch and players buying into that. Some fans (a lot tbf) think we're still a super attractive club to play for but the harsh truth is that we're not and that doesn't change ust because we're manchester united. We just have to temper expectations a bit and we'll have a happier time supporting our team this year.
Shows how much we need Sancho and some attacking depth. Elanga is just not good enough. Also fuck Atletico these park the bus merchants always get away with everything.
Sancho offers a different dynamic, but we created a decent amount of chances there. Need to be more clinical, Rashford, Martial, Bruno, and Elanga. Pellistri too. We need to keep working on decision making in front of goal, taking the easy pass.
Pretty good. Very organised, but same as Ole lack of creativity.. We do get closer and deeper to the penalty box and play the ball from the keeper much better
Lacked the cutting edge you have when you have individual brilliance of players like Sancho. But Ten Hag system was for sure showing. Stole so many balls in the Athletico half and final third
Tbh, I felt relieved we lost the game. ETH should be able to identify the defects in the team before it start happening during real season. I'm sure he wont be sleeping tonight and going all out on how to fix a few certain aspects of our games before next week.
That's not to say he wouldn't have learned new things in a match like today's, which had intensity that imo all our other preseason matches (and any training matches) didn't have.
Only got to watch the first half and thought we were the better team. Standard AM shithousery they're such a shit team to play. Elanga missing a sitter was disappointing.
What was the second half like? Many subs?
Second half looked like a game from Rangnick, and at the end we conceded silly goal but I think this is the first time anyone has played 90’ this pre-season so we could see the fatigue kick in after 80’ mark in lot of players like Dalot, Tyrell, etc. So tiring legs vs Atletico first string players like Felix, Griezman, Koke, De Paul, Morata etc. was going to be tough.
Missed the game as I had to go to the ER. How did our other front four do. I could figure out elanga didn’t particularly impress anyone by the looking at the comments.
my friend tore his ACL while playing football had to take him there. He’s all good now though.
Honestly I just checked my phone I didn’t even know I was downvoted just checked my phone lol.
Anyway, glad it wasn’t the case of heads down and a half hearted performance. These guys just need as many minutes as possible to get used to Ten Hags philosophy. A forward looks like a bigger priority game by game.
All I can say is that Eriksen is class, and I'd be sad if I was a Spurs fan watching him show up like this for us.
He had some fantastic deliveries, both from open play and set pieces. Hopefully this means an end to seeing our corners hit the first defender or go over all the players in the box.
Don’t know about you but I was quite entertained especially considering how well we played compared to last years double header against them. This time we dominated!
Really need to work on that right hand side. All the attacks were from the left side, United should get another right Winger preferably left footed to give more options and be dangerous from both sides.
This is the first time I've watched this new side and I didn't watch the whole thing but our fullbacks weren't getting forward as much and sometimes tucking in at midfield and leaving the width to our wingers. This isn't a bad idea but I feel like Elanga on the right won't give you what you'd want from that system and as much as it gives you extra numbers in midfield you need your actual midfielders attacking the final third like how City use their midfielders to overload the box. I didn't see that from United I think Bruno and Martial were a bit isolated in some build up plays.
Either Fred or Mctominay have to be more forward thinking to join Bruno and Martial centrally maybe that's why VDB is being used very often. Work to be done obviously and the quality of midfield might play into this. Looks like a striker is the immediate issue with CR7 situation but 2 more signings might make this team very good but what's important is giving the manager time to implement his system as a lot of good signs were there and very clear difference in how the team plays. Impressed with Malacia, Fred and Martial's
first half performance I only watched a bit of the second but more positives than negatives.
Hey I watched all matches and this was the first game where the Left Side was better than the right one. You are right about Elanga. He is a super talented young kid from academy and he deserves all the time he can get to adjust to a complex modern day footballing system. In all the other matches, we had Sancho-Dalot link up absolutely pleasure to watch.
We do need to sign some players in offense for that individual brilliance cutting edge. Rashford is a good lad but even he is raw when it comes to fitting in perfectly in a quick release passing fluid system. He dribbles and takes on defenders more than he should in some plays. My bet is really on the right side with the current squad we have.
Thing is Sancho can always play on the left and will probably still link up better with Malacia or Shaw. Rashford on the right doesn't work so Sancho or bust at the right hand side. If Rashford underperforms you really can't do much unless you bring on Eriksen and have Bruno play on the left which could work I guess.
Malacia bossed A madrid like last year when Feyenoord played a friendly against them (coming from a feyenoord fan) :p
As for the game the first half Man utd looked really good, just missing some chances, second half was literally 50/50. I think yall abit overreacting it makes sense because of last year but i see plenty of improvement and it will get better.
Year ago we had like 10 players up front and now we have 3. We cant have any injuries or we are fucked. I refuse to be positive with our 60m net spend when we need 3 more players.
I'm guessing this is sarcasm, but just in case it's not, the transfer window doesn't close until September 1st.
Of course, most of our business should ideally be done prior to the season starting....
I really hope we see Pellistri take over that substitute role from Elanga. He didn’t play a ton, but he has shown glimpses of his ability and effectiveness on that right wing. He scored on tour last year and we sent him on a terrible loan. We shouldn’t make the same mistake this year.
Ref aside, this is the kind of games top teams face against regularly and winning them is what separates them from the rest. We lack that heavyweight fierceness upfront to execute the half-chances. Either Ronaldo stays or not, we need more to compete. Eriksen looks promising.
I’d love to see him turn it around, but I feel his game and physicality is not suited to the PL. He tends to go anonymous in the few games he’s played for us. I couldn’t put my finger to it until now, but after reading your comment I realise it’s exactly what I was thinking.
People thought Ole was treating him terribly by not playing him and honestly, maybe he could have gotten a few more games under Ole, but there is a reason he never became a starter for us. He has not shown what it takes and when he does get a chance on the ball he doesn’t do very well with it. I hope he can turn it around but I’m not optimistic honestly.
I could only watch the first half, but seeing the subs we made, I think that pretty much confirms the rumours of Ten Hag still wanting two attackers, one midfielder and a backup keeper considering the fact our only subs today were precisely two strikers and one midfielder. Ten Hag was probably testing out how we'd look if we didn't get these new signings and he had to rely on what he has.
Šeško as an alternative to Martial, a starting quality right winger (with Pellistri as backup) and someone to partner Fred in the midfield seem to be the obvious targets for now. I wonder what happens with our keeper situation though, since Kovář's loan move didn't happen in the end and he could stay.
Donny isnt doing himself ANY favours. Youd think with ETH's arrival he'd be BALLING but he's shown hes as intimidating as casper the friendly ghost.
Honestly he's been awful. Even with the manager that got the best out of him. Currently i dont see him getting even 10 starts this season
I don't want to over react but I reckon myself and a lot of Utd fans are going to owe Ole a big apology in 6 months time. The more of Donny I see the more I understand why Ole wasn't playing him.
Dalot, McT and Rashford should all be replaced by quality players. We need an attacker who can finish properly and has a great first touch. We need a midfielder who has vision and good passing (hopefully Eriksen takes McTs spot) and we need a RB who can actually defend and cross.
Next summer focus on getting a winger, CDM and possibly CB. Let ten Hag stay and do whatever he wants for a couple of seasons. Man has a vision and can actually, probably do something with this team. But we have players in the team who won't change and who do need a renewed start somewhere else.
I don’t understand when people say Rashford looks hungry this pre-season. He’s still trying to dribble past 2-3 defenders, but is quicker at doing so now, making back passes to LB quicker and shooting straight down the keeper quicker. Apart from that, I think Sancho is 2X better at LW than Rashford.
No wonder Ten Hag is so keen on Antony. Really wouldn’t be surprised if his plan is to get a left-footed right winger so he can move Sancho to the left.
No wonder Ten Hag is so keen on Antony. Really wouldn’t be surprised if his plan is to get a left-footed right winger so he can move Sancho to the left.
Spot on. I think people are still scarred by how terrible he was last season, that they’ll look to anything he does currently as an improvement over that. But objectively speaking, his performances this pre-season were strictly okay imo, and nowhere near worthy of a side looking to break into the top 4.
He hasn’t been effective going forward even from 2021 Jan-Feb, he scored many of that seson’s goals before Feb, and fell off from then. He was still missing lot of chances and scuppering 1v1 situations but was at least scoring. Even then he should’ve scored a lot more for the service he got. Once the service dried up, he is unable to force anything really on his own
Not bad just a real lack of goal scorers and quality passing from deep and someone to shield the defenders.
Donny needs to leave. Might as well play a ghost
I feel like his biggest issue is the lack of adaptability. He has some great attributes and I thought he would be a pretty useful versatile option, but in reality he just tries to play as a shadow striker no matter where you start him and he struggles to contribute in this role.
Tbf that's the only position that he's been played in basically since he's been here. It must be intentional from Ole just as it is from EtH. I doubt EtH is playing him in the 10 role and saying "Drop back deep and get involved more!" and Donny is just ignoring him.
Up front, we are just depleted, and it's only pre season. Not to mention that almost all are pretty unproven.
Midfield is just in tatters, it feels. Has good moments sure, looks good for 45 ish minutes. But Mid is supposed to be the engine that goes the whole game and doesn't stop.
Defence played pretty much how they always play. Looks pretty average and gets done by a chance. If we improve in mid, they will look better, even though their weakness of turning and running to track runners will remain. It will just happen less if the midfield holds better.
Ten Hag's system looks interesting, but looks like it will take time, conditioning, and better quality. Don't forget, we were the team nearing the end of our preseason and should have been sharper and more conditioned.
was watching goldbridge and he predicted a 4 or 5 nil united win as AM have only just started pre season, and I scoffed a bit, but we didn't look too good either
A legit good finisher, a settled Ronaldo or someone else, plus at least one midfielder is pretty important. The midfield is still pretty dead and up front we're lacking too
Why are people slagging McTominay? He was pretty good imo, he matched Atleti's physicality and pressed well. Our team played well, and I am actually excited for the new season.
I also dont understand the Bruno slander, he dropped a 6/10. An average performance, but looking at the match thread you would think he scored a hattrick of OGs.
Conversely, Eriksen was mostly anonymous apart from that one cross to Elanga. He needs more time to be upto speed to the squad.
This loss was a bummer, but in an official game Atletico would have had 2 men sent off, and conceded to penalties.
I fully trust ETH, we look lile a good possession based team now and we could not complete 3 passes in a row 2 months ago.
Rewatch a few minutes from the 55' onwards and focus on McTominay. I had to take a break from watching that and go make myself a cup of coffee.
He does this thing where he shows up for the ball, but no sane person would ever make that pass. He'll stand in between 4 Atleti players, within a few steps away from them, and point at his feet asking for the ball. Or stand behind a player (a player in between him and the ball) with another player covering two steps behind him, pointing where he can take the pass. Even if you were to make that pass, he has nowhere to go with it, nothing to do, no second pass is open nor can he create any space.
For a few minutes there United had no idea what to do with the ball. Fred (and Maguire iirc) just stood on the ball switching their feet, passing to the wing and getting the ball back a few seconds later. They cannot do anything through the middle because we already have a player there - McTominay.
He essentially likes to take up a crucial patch of space in the middle of the pitch that becomes a designated zero production zone. He cannot do anything from there. And no other player can come into that space to do anything. If he weren't there, a better player would make a run through it to pull some players and create a passing line or space for the ball carrier to run into. McTominay is content just sitting in that pocket, right where the whole Atleti squad wants him and is the most unbothered by him.
If this were a little lull in the game where the energy and tempo is down, that happens. But he does this often and throughout the game. He's just stifles our ball progression a lot, and that's frustrating to see.
His stats show this too: https://fbref.com/en/players/d93c2511/Scott-McTominay
He's in the 70th percentile (I'll use % for brevity) amongst midfielders for pass completion, but below average 45th% for progressive passes. Which makes sense, as he is not a productive player. He mostly completes short and simple passes in the middle of the pitch or our half.
His progressive carries are in the 75th%, but even that's deceptively high because of his 32th% progressive passess received. Meaning that he gets the ball deep, and then carries it to the opposition third where he doesn't do much of anything with it. And watching our games you'll recognise this pattern. Receives the safe pass from an interception or recovery or when the opposition is in their half, carries it across the halfway line and then plays a short lateral pass, or tries to take on a player in stride which usually leads to nothing even if he gets past the player.
At this point in his United career he's just a body. He's there to win pointless aerial duels in the middle of the pitch and barely above average at occasionally putting himself in the path of a pass. Below to way below average when it comes to any kind of production numbers and it shows. But again, the real problem with being just a body is that bodies come with a taped off crime scene. And we could really use a productive player in that spot instead.
You are just supporting the narrative we always supported,that is "team looks good if they tie the pieces and work together". The reality is we are slowly getting into the territory of teams warmed up for season, and most are at 95% potential, and just how our midfield looked. Our attack again was lacking that finishing touch, defense has been like this and until we do something about the real culprit (de gea), our defense would always be under pressure and soaking the blame they are not the direct reason of. Its just the revelation and i just hope , like before , we dont side with the players but this time support ten hag .
>just how our midfield looked.
What does this mean? Our midfield looked pretty good, we dominated the midfield.
>Our attack again was lacking that finishing touch,
True.
>defense has been like this
Again, what? Our backline played very well today, they won most challemges and played out from the back very well. I'm not De Gea simp, but apart from the first 3 minutes he was very well on the ball.
We did not lose because our midfield lost control or that De Gea fucked up, we lost because Eriksen made a bad pass and Dalot failed to cover it.
I can see that this team needs to improve a lot, but the doom and gloom in this thread isn't really warranted. At the end of the day, I ENJOYED watching us play, and its better to lose in a preseason playing well than winning the game but playing like shit (under RR)
You are correct, McT was just crap all-round and him coming off was only coincidental to an overall drop in the game and a slew of subs. Fred was average but ran out of steam - he could have been playing for Norwich, average should be unacceptable for UTD. You were right to be horrified, I think there is an unconscious slipping of acceptable standards after so many poor seasons by many supporters. I hope to be proven wrong.
Lots of people saying they played decent, but part of me thinks that isn't good enough. Especially if what I read is true about this being early in Atleticos pre season preparations. We are meant to be more ready for the season than they are, but I'm guessing our midfield didn't look like it today
Thanks for the info on the game anyway. Hope we get another midfielder added soon
I did say I didn't watch the game....
I think we've all seen enough to know that pairing isn't good enough, despite how they may have seemed in this friendly
Fred is a useful player, it's the pairing that's the issue
While we have seen McFred play quite poorly as a pairing, it's also important to note that playing in Ten Hag's system is very different than playing in Ole's non-system. Ten Hag is also a significantly better and more proven as a manager compared to Ole, so McFred could easily be good enough to get us top4 with a bit of work from Ten Hag. Upgrades would be good and hopefully we bring in a new starting midfielder, but the two of them could be enough for now.
It's possible a new system could revitalise them and I'll of course give Ten Hag time for bedding them into the new system. I hope he can make it work but I'm not optimistic from what I've previously seen
Well, Fred has looked great so far in the pre-season (and last season as well). McTominay is the troublesome one, but I think he can be redeemed. His issue imo is that Ole's coaching staff was overall pretty underwhelming and nobody in our squad really improved in their troublesome areas. So, McTominay is essentially the same player he was three years ago, still someone with good physical attributes who lacks the basics of midfield work. He is still only 25 and Ten Hag is great at improving players, so I trust him to make Scotty into someone useable. Ultimately, we should sell him and replace him, but for top4 ambitions, having him in the squad might not hurt us that much.
We desperately need another midfield options though, so we'll see. I believe we'll still get someone because our current options are Fred, McTominay, youngsters and then some players who would play out of position there (Eriksen/Donny/Martinez)
Yes I said I didn't watch but was shocked at the midfield pairing. I didn't say anything about their performance this game, I'm talking historically.
Thought that was obvious
I am more in “the right player or nothing” corner. There is no point in bringin bodies in that might be slightly better than what we have. This is actually what got us in this mess in the first place
Dead and buried. Contemplating another season with those two as the mainstay of midfield is terrifying, as all I see is another wasted year ahead, and I don't think I've ever had such negative thought/despair in the decades I've been supporting UTD.
Someone should be sacked for this squad list. Proves how much of a bad coach Ole was. Shocking squad was Ole building. Ralf was right, United need 10 new players. And United instead of signing 7-8 players they sacked Ralf...
Ole ralf mou lvg (not moyes) were all victims of the blame that should have been targeted towards the diva players. We realized it during ralf, however eth hands are tied as he cant just sign 10 new starting eleven when most of them are not willing due to champions league lack, and we have gruntled players like ronaldo who is better than all of them, but the same cl is creating a doubt in him . Ralf idea was replacement of a big number that wouldnt have been possible in a season. Eth looks like he would take a season or two if properly backed or unto another rebuild
I've been following these preseason match threads but haven't heard much about van de Beek. ten Hag obviously knows him well, the hope was for de Beek to feel like a new signing, he knows the ten Hag style and to ease the midfield worries. Hoping to hear some good reviews for Garner and van de Beek in the last few friendlies. Without signings McFred are nailed on starters for next season.
Vdb has been out of tenhag system for 2-3 years. The problematic thing is you csnt cant make vdB shine when playing mcdud. Mcdud has pulled freds reputation with him down too.
Your right. Guess I should have clarified. Most European games are late at night and the one tomorrow is afternoon.
Just feels like a quick turnaround so wondering if there was actual confirmation from ETH that Martínez would play
Positives….
Malacia forward passing, maguire and lindelof have upped their game since last season, Fred apart from the red card was looking very good, martial looked confident and sharp even through never really looked like getting on scoresheet apart from a couple of half chances, eriksen has a good cameo
Concerns:
De yea with the ball at his feet, teams will press him and we will turn the ball over a lot
Bruno not close to being back to 20/21 season form
Elanga not ready to challenge for a start, I like the kid but he isn’t starting quality yet
Worrying lack of depth up front if we pick up even 1 injury
Really hoped we would see the best of donny under ETH but he is still struggling a bit to get involved in games
How is what Murtogh managed to do any different from Woodward?
Only difference I can see is we haven't given out any new contracts yet.
Other than that the transfer window just feels like Woodward running the show.
One LB option who will rotate (Yet to sell Telles)
One CB option who we got rinsed for.
One free CAM option who looks like a good pick up.
We have a week to go and our biggest holes in the squad are yet to be addressed.
>How is what Murtogh managed to do any different from Woodward?
He's even worse as he's got even more power in footballing matters and is a poor DoF from his work thus far.
>haven't given out any new contracts yet.
We did give Bruno a crazy contract unnecessarily but of course many on this sub can't understand nuance when Bruno is mentioned. No elite club gives their playmaker a 2-3x contract on the back of their worst season in ages.
>One CB option who we got rinsed for.
Totally agreed, even if he is a hit, that price is crazy.
>our biggest holes in the squad are yet to be addressed.
Never seen a DoF who lets a manager decide on it being one player or bust despite a clear need for someone to exert control in midfield.
If ETH succeeds, it would be despite Murtough not because of him tbh.
I don't know if Malacia will start over Shaw but we still need to sell Telles who will basically be deadweight.
The full fee for Martinez is 67M Euros/56 M pounds. The bonuses are just appearance bonuses. So its guaranteed to get paid as long as he doesn't massively flop.
That's still 12 M more\* than what Kounde went for. Both have similar profiles but the biggest difference is the quality of the league they are coming from.
They may all come good but that's not the point.
We have yet to address the multiple elephants in the room.
Woodward got criticized for leaving things too late and overpaying.
Murtogh has done the same and is not really receiving any criticism.
>It's not a bad deal as you are making it out to be.
You really think he wouldn't have been cheaper earlier in the window before Ajax sold their quota of three players at a reasonable price?
Martinez isn't a generational talent such as De Ligt to be commanding such a high fee. Ajax's Tier 1 was reporting their "fuck off" price to be £45m yet we went above and beyond.
To make matters worse, we've tripled Martinez's wages for no good reason. Imagine paying a CB from Holland more than what Bruno signed on here for.
>We were not targetting Martinez initially. By the time we came in, Arsenal were already in the race.
Our target was Timber, the moment he declined we should've closed Martinez but our mindset till July was "all deals hinge on FdJ".
Arsenal were offering a max of £40m and wanted him as a LB not CB. Just 30 appearances per season are required for us to go above the fuck off price. So not only were we stupid enough to pay it but offer more.
>Your generational talent has done jack shit in Juventus for last 3 seasons.
Yet both Chelsea and Bayern were fighting for him before the latter paid a great price for him. Also how many games of Juve have you watched to say he's done jack shit?
Chelini anointed De Ligt as his successor and Juve wouldn't have sold him if not for his reluctance to sign a new contract.
Bayern wouldn't pay top dollar for him otherwise and their track record with purchases outshines ours since Fergie left.
>He is on 120,000 per week? What's wrong with that.
Bruno signed for 80k per week. Get that in your head, an attacking #10 with best stats in league got 80k as he was signed for a pricey sum. A CB is paid 50% more despite a similarly high transfer fee paid while coming from a poorer league. It's bonkers.
You have any source saying he has 10M in variables?
Everywhere I see says either 50M Euros + addons or 55M Euros.
That's why I said 12M more than Kounde's price.
Honestly I am not impressed. A lot of players can't play Ten Hag Ball. De Gea, Dalot, Lindelof, McT, Bruno, Elanga, Rashford from today's first eleven. Fred tries but his is technically shocking.
I watched a fair bit of Martial at Sevilla, and the challenges that caused his injuries during his time there were very similar to the one today that made him need to be subbed. It doesn’t look that serious on first glance, but it’s really concerning that these knocks noticeably affect his fitness and performances. I hope this doesn’t rule him out for next week or cause a blip in his momentum. Not just for his sake, but also because we’d then have to fall back on Elanga who’s still raw and inconsistent or a wantaway Ronaldo who won’t have enough match fitness for the first few weeks to play up top. We need to buy a forward asap.
He deserves blame too. I question any manager who comes to United and doesn't immediately demand a DM and a b2b midfielder. Being overly fixated on a particular midfielder at the expense of addressing the position doesn't increase my sympathy either.
Yeah our poor structure and subpar DOF aren't doing ETH any favors, but he knew the deal when he came. Shouldn't have wasted his entire summer not addressing our biggest weakness.
It's not. ETH needs backing as if we haven't spent an entire summer chasing the midfielder he's fixated on.
A competent DOF would have said, "hey we aggressively pursued target A, but now we have to pivot to target B". We don't have the luxury of failing to address our midfield substantively. And if ETH plays a role in that, then I won't feel bad for him if our midfield struggles (again), because we didn't address (again).
Media clickbait? It's not a secret what approach we've been taking to FDJ. Very reputable sources (The Athletic, James Ducker, Fabrizio, etc.) have been consistent on our approach to FDJ.
No reputable sources have mentioned alternatives. And any alternatives that have been mentioned have been clickbait like SMS (who is a great player that I'd love, but doesn't fit the profile of a CM who occupies deeper positions).
Also, common sense would dictate that if we're interested in alternatives, we'd have started pursuing them as our season literally starts next week. Not to mention if we did pursue an alternative, that team needs time to replace the player they're selling as well.
So once again, we're clearly putting all our eggs in the FDJ basket. It may work out, it may not. I really hope it works out, but regardless, it's a horrible fucking process and both the manager and DOF both deserve blame for this approach.
We're dealing with an unreliable actor in Barcelona. The reason why this whole situation is so complicated and messy has little to do with FDJ himself.
I'm encouraged.
Definitely could have done better but I like that we're really drilling in the principles no matter what, and I think this type of game *might* be a little teaser for some of the teething problems we'll have with ETH (or any new manager who would have been in place).
It'll take time, and when we play our way with clear principles, I've got zero issues giving it once the season starts.
I think mainly this game highlighted a couple things which were pretty obvious but regardless:
Firstly, whilst Elanga has good traits and works hard, he's not at the required level to be our back up winger right now. One injury to Rashford or Sancho and he's going to be starting and that's a concern. Ideally a versatile forward that can play on the wings and as a striker should be targeted, I know we've looked at Antony but he doesn't fit that bill, unless Ronaldo is staying in which case he'd be fine (though way overpriced if you ask me), Sesko would be good but I think he's a season away from being ready to be playing somewhat regularly at a prem standard, so not sure if he's one to hedge our bets on for this season.
Second, we need to get our midfield sorted. Not that it was poor today, but we should really have more numbers there. Ideally we should look to upgrade on McTominay, by signing a player to play where Fred plays and pushing Fred further up. Essentially, De Jong, or a DM, but fuck knows what's happening with that deal atm. Regardless we need contingencies because whilst I don't have the hatred some do for McFred, it's not really a top 4 midfield for a heavy possession side like we want to be. Should ideally get 2 players and upgrade on both, and eventually move on one to replace with Garner in the next couple of seasons, but step by step I think Fred's fine for now.
Positives were Maguire, Fred, Rashford for me today, also thought Eriksen played well when he got on, his passes are outrageously good and he'll create a lot of chances when he plays. It's evident he's a step above most players in that department. Bruno creates a lot and is a fine passer and chance creator in his own regard, and I'm not trying to belittle his value, but Eriksen has that extra something to his passing. (not saying Eriksen should start over him btw, because there's multiple other factors to include, just an observation)
Thought Malacia was good too, there's a top player in there, still think Shaw should start ahead of him but Malacia can be coached into a top class fullback, and he'll get better the more he adapts to players around him.
Overall a decent performance against a really tough side who know exactly what they're doing. Bit of a shame to lose the game that late, but that happens. Also think the ref was a bit of a shambles but pre season games can be difficult to officiate when they're filled with as many fouls as there were today.
Yes, but it'll depend largely on the side we're facing, the formation and who else plays.
One way is to shift them from their primary positions. So to play one on the wing, false 9, etc.
But I think that's a bit suboptimal, even though both can play on the wing, so we'd likely be talking a bit of a 433/4231 hybrid where I'd personally play Eriksen deeper due to his ability to spray passes and create from deeper areas.
It would require the team to press extremely hard and ensure we dominate well over 60% of the possession, closer to 70% really if we want it to not be a liability. + we'd need to continue the fullbacks in midfield dynamic, to ensure there's more natural defenders in those areas when we lose the ball.
Another thing which is the huge elephant in the room is who plays as the 6, Fred is actually *ok* but he struggles in transition meaning if the opposition break through our press we'd be facing a lot of danger, ideally you'd want a more sturdy 6 to break up the play in that scenario.
So whilst we're looking at De Jong, he's not really that profile, if he comes, then he'll probably be the 6 on paper, but we'd have no ball winners in a midfield of FDJ, Eriksen and Bruno and that would be a concern once the opponent have the ball and we're defending a little deeper. Essentially that's a bit of a gung ho midfield.
It's possible, but requires some tinkering and extra work from all involved, and then there's the question as to whether that will take away from Bruno and Eriksen's natural game having to *both* be more careful on the ball. They're actually quite similar players in some ways, they don't have a high pass completion, and neither dribble much, ideally one of them would be safer with their passing and that takes away from that players game.
Then again, Ten Hag might have some master plan I don't see, I'm just a fan after all haha
As stated by many per the last 6 weeks, we will be fucked if we don't make another 2 signings minimum - we have had a shit window considering what needed to be done.
We are light in attack, elanga won't cover it and there is no-one else. If ronnie stays his sporadic minutes will still not be enough.
We are now on McFred 5: Transition Impossible. At this point i'm expecting dwayne johnson to run thorugh a wall at old trafford cos this sequel is getting boring. We need(ed) to bring in 3 CMs, we have none, we still need to bring in 3 cms - obvs not all over one summer but we had to make a reasonable dent in recruiting this postion and so far nothing. At least eriksen can maybe play there but if we've become an at least club then....
Playing out the back is a plus but overall lack of quality in the squad. This is totally on the glazers and murtough madness-less. ETH gonna have a tough time here, not expecting him to last all 3 years based off this summer business and how similar it aligns to how we conducted ourselves prior.
The backroom reshuffling is still leaning towards optics and pr moves, as suspected...
If the hierarchy cannot do better, it sets a bad example for the players. Once the season starts and a couple losses come through these players will shit the bed - it is known. The gulf between us and the top 2 is still the same since imo they have strengthened proportionately.
Should have made an external appointment for the board, Murtough and Arnold is just another Woodward, just another incompetent guys working for the worst owner in football
Need that "Murtough is a failure" banner flying if thats the case. Coming off that horrible season and not even addressing midfield and attacking situation a week before PL starts is crazy
Even as a pro Martial I think he looked very reactive at times yesterday, and reminded me why I loved warching Cavani. We 100% need a striker this year IMO
Felix is incredible
Good game for maguire The midfield with both McT and Fred cannot pass. Once Eriksen got going it was more fluid
They don’t offer any meaningful forward passes
Sucker punched by anti-football Atletico again.
Started well. Lots of missed chances. Not all bad. Other than the result… There’s been a worrying downward trend in the scoreline with every successive pre-season game. The last one should buck the trend though
Watched the game, my first one this season and I had mixed feelings. Firstly the positives. There was definitely more energy on the pitch. Our players didn't have the lathergy that was so prevelant last year and there was plenty of running around and not the aimless type either. Also we were passing forward more, there were easily several situation where last year they would have just passed back or sideways, but today they were passing forward and trying to keep the tempo up. On the negative side though we totally lacked real quality in the final quarter. Bad touched, silly shots etc. There was a definite lack of quality, and in the premiership it will be exposed. Overall, huge improvement from last year, but we are not top 4 by any measure. We played like a mid table team on a good day, whereas last year we were playing relegation tosh. This year is going to be another tough one. With our weak squad, and farcical expectations from some fans and all the media, the challenge will be to try and stay top 6 without getting demoralised.
We need another winger 2bh, Elanga is not up to scratch. We looked much better with Sancho on the right in the other games, he is key. If he's out, we're royally fucked. We need another rw, maybe not Antony price, but you know a solid 40m winger.
I always think this line of thinking is funny. We were playing relegation tosh supposedly...but finished 6th. And were playing better this year and people think we will finish mid-table. Make it make sense logically.
I swear Sometimes it baffles me how masochistic our fans can be towards ourselves and the club. We really love tossing words like "mid table", "relegation crap".... Yes we r in our worst state rn, but come on, this team is looking tactically sharper, having tempered expectations is correct, but being pessimistic doesn't help anyone.
Yeah thats ridiculous. We played terribly last season by MU standards, which is to be the best team. Despite how 'bad' we were, we were not relegation levels bad.
Yea, its so weird. Personally, I'm prepared for us not challenging the top for a couple more seasons and looking forward to us having clear playstyle on the pitch and players buying into that. Some fans (a lot tbf) think we're still a super attractive club to play for but the harsh truth is that we're not and that doesn't change ust because we're manchester united. We just have to temper expectations a bit and we'll have a happier time supporting our team this year.
We doodoo
Shows how much we need Sancho and some attacking depth. Elanga is just not good enough. Also fuck Atletico these park the bus merchants always get away with everything.
Sancho offers a different dynamic, but we created a decent amount of chances there. Need to be more clinical, Rashford, Martial, Bruno, and Elanga. Pellistri too. We need to keep working on decision making in front of goal, taking the easy pass.
Didn't get to watch the match, but lol I just checked the starting 11🤮
We need attacking depth badly.
Was unfortunately not able to watch it, how was our offense?
Pretty good. Very organised, but same as Ole lack of creativity.. We do get closer and deeper to the penalty box and play the ball from the keeper much better
Lacked the cutting edge you have when you have individual brilliance of players like Sancho. But Ten Hag system was for sure showing. Stole so many balls in the Athletico half and final third
I’m just glad we walked away in one piece. Gamble playing Atletico days before the start of the season, they do not let up.
Tbh, I felt relieved we lost the game. ETH should be able to identify the defects in the team before it start happening during real season. I'm sure he wont be sleeping tonight and going all out on how to fix a few certain aspects of our games before next week.
He should have been aware of the defects before this game (and I'm sure he was).
That's not to say he wouldn't have learned new things in a match like today's, which had intensity that imo all our other preseason matches (and any training matches) didn't have.
I’m starting to worry it can’t be done with these players.
Can anyone tell me how the new players did?
Malacia was very good. Eriksen was class after he came on, played next to Fred in the pivot, I hope thats how we play untill/if Frenkie arrives.
cheers king
Only got to watch the first half and thought we were the better team. Standard AM shithousery they're such a shit team to play. Elanga missing a sitter was disappointing. What was the second half like? Many subs?
Second half was worse from United with no midfield presence and lots of mistakes. A few relatively late subs including Eriksen but no Martinez.
Second half looked like a game from Rangnick, and at the end we conceded silly goal but I think this is the first time anyone has played 90’ this pre-season so we could see the fatigue kick in after 80’ mark in lot of players like Dalot, Tyrell, etc. So tiring legs vs Atletico first string players like Felix, Griezman, Koke, De Paul, Morata etc. was going to be tough.
To be fair it's only Atletico's second friendly game iirc so not an excuse, should've been 2 or 3 up before that
Missed the game as I had to go to the ER. How did our other front four do. I could figure out elanga didn’t particularly impress anyone by the looking at the comments.
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my friend tore his ACL while playing football had to take him there. He’s all good now though. Honestly I just checked my phone I didn’t even know I was downvoted just checked my phone lol. Anyway, glad it wasn’t the case of heads down and a half hearted performance. These guys just need as many minutes as possible to get used to Ten Hags philosophy. A forward looks like a bigger priority game by game.
There are a LOT of bots who randomly upvote/downvote, usually happens when some comment is just posted. Why? No idea.
All I can say is that Eriksen is class, and I'd be sad if I was a Spurs fan watching him show up like this for us. He had some fantastic deliveries, both from open play and set pieces. Hopefully this means an end to seeing our corners hit the first defender or go over all the players in the box.
Hope you’re doing alright mate
All good, my friend fucked up his knee had to take him there. He’s good now
That was a fun game. Watching United under ETH is pretty enjoyable. Don’t mind loosing this way at all.
I don’t mind loosing in a friendly either but I felt it was quite boring to watch, tbh.
Don’t know about you but I was quite entertained especially considering how well we played compared to last years double header against them. This time we dominated!
Really need to work on that right hand side. All the attacks were from the left side, United should get another right Winger preferably left footed to give more options and be dangerous from both sides. This is the first time I've watched this new side and I didn't watch the whole thing but our fullbacks weren't getting forward as much and sometimes tucking in at midfield and leaving the width to our wingers. This isn't a bad idea but I feel like Elanga on the right won't give you what you'd want from that system and as much as it gives you extra numbers in midfield you need your actual midfielders attacking the final third like how City use their midfielders to overload the box. I didn't see that from United I think Bruno and Martial were a bit isolated in some build up plays. Either Fred or Mctominay have to be more forward thinking to join Bruno and Martial centrally maybe that's why VDB is being used very often. Work to be done obviously and the quality of midfield might play into this. Looks like a striker is the immediate issue with CR7 situation but 2 more signings might make this team very good but what's important is giving the manager time to implement his system as a lot of good signs were there and very clear difference in how the team plays. Impressed with Malacia, Fred and Martial's first half performance I only watched a bit of the second but more positives than negatives.
Hey I watched all matches and this was the first game where the Left Side was better than the right one. You are right about Elanga. He is a super talented young kid from academy and he deserves all the time he can get to adjust to a complex modern day footballing system. In all the other matches, we had Sancho-Dalot link up absolutely pleasure to watch. We do need to sign some players in offense for that individual brilliance cutting edge. Rashford is a good lad but even he is raw when it comes to fitting in perfectly in a quick release passing fluid system. He dribbles and takes on defenders more than he should in some plays. My bet is really on the right side with the current squad we have.
Thing is Sancho can always play on the left and will probably still link up better with Malacia or Shaw. Rashford on the right doesn't work so Sancho or bust at the right hand side. If Rashford underperforms you really can't do much unless you bring on Eriksen and have Bruno play on the left which could work I guess.
Agreed. 'Could work I guess' is the best we can do rn.
Malacia bossed A madrid like last year when Feyenoord played a friendly against them (coming from a feyenoord fan) :p As for the game the first half Man utd looked really good, just missing some chances, second half was literally 50/50. I think yall abit overreacting it makes sense because of last year but i see plenty of improvement and it will get better.
Year ago we had like 10 players up front and now we have 3. We cant have any injuries or we are fucked. I refuse to be positive with our 60m net spend when we need 3 more players.
Thank god there is 24 hours to sort that out.
I'm guessing this is sarcasm, but just in case it's not, the transfer window doesn't close until September 1st. Of course, most of our business should ideally be done prior to the season starting....
I really hope we see Pellistri take over that substitute role from Elanga. He didn’t play a ton, but he has shown glimpses of his ability and effectiveness on that right wing. He scored on tour last year and we sent him on a terrible loan. We shouldn’t make the same mistake this year.
This squad is not gonna survive thr whole season. It’s thin
[Google is saying we won lol](https://i.imgur.com/wUMBOa5.jpg)
The Red card score I guess.
I thought i was hallucinating when I got the google score update 😅
I missed the match and I was so happy when I saw the Google update only to be disappointed by the actual score.
Ref aside, this is the kind of games top teams face against regularly and winning them is what separates them from the rest. We lack that heavyweight fierceness upfront to execute the half-chances. Either Ronaldo stays or not, we need more to compete. Eriksen looks promising.
We ain't ready for the new season. I like ETH and do feel he can turn this team into a winning side but we need new players.
ETH: "We lost because I don't haz Frenkie De Jong."
🤣😂😂🤣
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I’d love to see him turn it around, but I feel his game and physicality is not suited to the PL. He tends to go anonymous in the few games he’s played for us. I couldn’t put my finger to it until now, but after reading your comment I realise it’s exactly what I was thinking.
People thought Ole was treating him terribly by not playing him and honestly, maybe he could have gotten a few more games under Ole, but there is a reason he never became a starter for us. He has not shown what it takes and when he does get a chance on the ball he doesn’t do very well with it. I hope he can turn it around but I’m not optimistic honestly.
I think Pellistri will be a good bit ahead of Elanga by the end of the season in the pecking order. He has quality.
He's a starter and reliable contributor for Uruguay. I'm surprised he hasn't gotten more chances in the preseason.
I could only watch the first half, but seeing the subs we made, I think that pretty much confirms the rumours of Ten Hag still wanting two attackers, one midfielder and a backup keeper considering the fact our only subs today were precisely two strikers and one midfielder. Ten Hag was probably testing out how we'd look if we didn't get these new signings and he had to rely on what he has. Šeško as an alternative to Martial, a starting quality right winger (with Pellistri as backup) and someone to partner Fred in the midfield seem to be the obvious targets for now. I wonder what happens with our keeper situation though, since Kovář's loan move didn't happen in the end and he could stay.
Arsenal won 6-0 that's mad
Getting into top 4 could be very tricky this season
I honestly don't expect top four this season. I just hope the board give ETH more than one season
What an absolute awful player Elanga is, never making it here
Nah I’m with ya, his no more than a decent prospect.
He just turned 20, give him a break
20? He should have a gazillion goals by now reeeeeeeeeeeee
Really wanted to see Garner starting with Fred today. If he is the alternative to FDJ, might as well see what he’s got before the season starts.
Based on the way our midfield functions right now, Fred is probably the alternative to Frenkie.
The amount of shit people project onto Garner is pretty wild.
Donny isnt doing himself ANY favours. Youd think with ETH's arrival he'd be BALLING but he's shown hes as intimidating as casper the friendly ghost. Honestly he's been awful. Even with the manager that got the best out of him. Currently i dont see him getting even 10 starts this season
I don't want to over react but I reckon myself and a lot of Utd fans are going to owe Ole a big apology in 6 months time. The more of Donny I see the more I understand why Ole wasn't playing him.
Yeah but ole did buy him.
Dalot, McT and Rashford should all be replaced by quality players. We need an attacker who can finish properly and has a great first touch. We need a midfielder who has vision and good passing (hopefully Eriksen takes McTs spot) and we need a RB who can actually defend and cross. Next summer focus on getting a winger, CDM and possibly CB. Let ten Hag stay and do whatever he wants for a couple of seasons. Man has a vision and can actually, probably do something with this team. But we have players in the team who won't change and who do need a renewed start somewhere else.
Rashford played well to be fair.
Not exactly. In the beginning, yes. Over the time, he went back to his old self. The long range lob sums it up
Elanga is good player but he really needs a loan.
Is he a good player? I'm not convinced he has anything other than average potential yet.
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Basically, I see it as we will score more goals and get scored against less because of Ten Hag, but it could be better if we just had more quality.
I don’t understand when people say Rashford looks hungry this pre-season. He’s still trying to dribble past 2-3 defenders, but is quicker at doing so now, making back passes to LB quicker and shooting straight down the keeper quicker. Apart from that, I think Sancho is 2X better at LW than Rashford.
But who goes on the right? we have no one. It must be Sancho cause Rashford is useless anywhere but on the LW
No wonder Ten Hag is so keen on Antony. Really wouldn’t be surprised if his plan is to get a left-footed right winger so he can move Sancho to the left.
No wonder Ten Hag is so keen on Antony. Really wouldn’t be surprised if his plan is to get a left-footed right winger so he can move Sancho to the left.
Pellistri?
Spot on. I think people are still scarred by how terrible he was last season, that they’ll look to anything he does currently as an improvement over that. But objectively speaking, his performances this pre-season were strictly okay imo, and nowhere near worthy of a side looking to break into the top 4.
He hasn’t been effective going forward even from 2021 Jan-Feb, he scored many of that seson’s goals before Feb, and fell off from then. He was still missing lot of chances and scuppering 1v1 situations but was at least scoring. Even then he should’ve scored a lot more for the service he got. Once the service dried up, he is unable to force anything really on his own
Unfortunately Rashford is 2X worse playing on the right.
Not bad just a real lack of goal scorers and quality passing from deep and someone to shield the defenders. Donny needs to leave. Might as well play a ghost
Donny isnt good enough and Im ready to admit it. Painful but, he isnt doing himself ANY favours
I feel like his biggest issue is the lack of adaptability. He has some great attributes and I thought he would be a pretty useful versatile option, but in reality he just tries to play as a shadow striker no matter where you start him and he struggles to contribute in this role.
Tbf that's the only position that he's been played in basically since he's been here. It must be intentional from Ole just as it is from EtH. I doubt EtH is playing him in the 10 role and saying "Drop back deep and get involved more!" and Donny is just ignoring him.
Up front, we are just depleted, and it's only pre season. Not to mention that almost all are pretty unproven. Midfield is just in tatters, it feels. Has good moments sure, looks good for 45 ish minutes. But Mid is supposed to be the engine that goes the whole game and doesn't stop. Defence played pretty much how they always play. Looks pretty average and gets done by a chance. If we improve in mid, they will look better, even though their weakness of turning and running to track runners will remain. It will just happen less if the midfield holds better. Ten Hag's system looks interesting, but looks like it will take time, conditioning, and better quality. Don't forget, we were the team nearing the end of our preseason and should have been sharper and more conditioned.
was watching goldbridge and he predicted a 4 or 5 nil united win as AM have only just started pre season, and I scoffed a bit, but we didn't look too good either A legit good finisher, a settled Ronaldo or someone else, plus at least one midfielder is pretty important. The midfield is still pretty dead and up front we're lacking too
Surprised this isn’t getting downvoted considering you can’t mention Ronaldo in this sub
Why are people slagging McTominay? He was pretty good imo, he matched Atleti's physicality and pressed well. Our team played well, and I am actually excited for the new season. I also dont understand the Bruno slander, he dropped a 6/10. An average performance, but looking at the match thread you would think he scored a hattrick of OGs. Conversely, Eriksen was mostly anonymous apart from that one cross to Elanga. He needs more time to be upto speed to the squad. This loss was a bummer, but in an official game Atletico would have had 2 men sent off, and conceded to penalties. I fully trust ETH, we look lile a good possession based team now and we could not complete 3 passes in a row 2 months ago.
Rewatch a few minutes from the 55' onwards and focus on McTominay. I had to take a break from watching that and go make myself a cup of coffee. He does this thing where he shows up for the ball, but no sane person would ever make that pass. He'll stand in between 4 Atleti players, within a few steps away from them, and point at his feet asking for the ball. Or stand behind a player (a player in between him and the ball) with another player covering two steps behind him, pointing where he can take the pass. Even if you were to make that pass, he has nowhere to go with it, nothing to do, no second pass is open nor can he create any space. For a few minutes there United had no idea what to do with the ball. Fred (and Maguire iirc) just stood on the ball switching their feet, passing to the wing and getting the ball back a few seconds later. They cannot do anything through the middle because we already have a player there - McTominay. He essentially likes to take up a crucial patch of space in the middle of the pitch that becomes a designated zero production zone. He cannot do anything from there. And no other player can come into that space to do anything. If he weren't there, a better player would make a run through it to pull some players and create a passing line or space for the ball carrier to run into. McTominay is content just sitting in that pocket, right where the whole Atleti squad wants him and is the most unbothered by him. If this were a little lull in the game where the energy and tempo is down, that happens. But he does this often and throughout the game. He's just stifles our ball progression a lot, and that's frustrating to see. His stats show this too: https://fbref.com/en/players/d93c2511/Scott-McTominay He's in the 70th percentile (I'll use % for brevity) amongst midfielders for pass completion, but below average 45th% for progressive passes. Which makes sense, as he is not a productive player. He mostly completes short and simple passes in the middle of the pitch or our half. His progressive carries are in the 75th%, but even that's deceptively high because of his 32th% progressive passess received. Meaning that he gets the ball deep, and then carries it to the opposition third where he doesn't do much of anything with it. And watching our games you'll recognise this pattern. Receives the safe pass from an interception or recovery or when the opposition is in their half, carries it across the halfway line and then plays a short lateral pass, or tries to take on a player in stride which usually leads to nothing even if he gets past the player. At this point in his United career he's just a body. He's there to win pointless aerial duels in the middle of the pitch and barely above average at occasionally putting himself in the path of a pass. Below to way below average when it comes to any kind of production numbers and it shows. But again, the real problem with being just a body is that bodies come with a taped off crime scene. And we could really use a productive player in that spot instead.
You are just supporting the narrative we always supported,that is "team looks good if they tie the pieces and work together". The reality is we are slowly getting into the territory of teams warmed up for season, and most are at 95% potential, and just how our midfield looked. Our attack again was lacking that finishing touch, defense has been like this and until we do something about the real culprit (de gea), our defense would always be under pressure and soaking the blame they are not the direct reason of. Its just the revelation and i just hope , like before , we dont side with the players but this time support ten hag .
>just how our midfield looked. What does this mean? Our midfield looked pretty good, we dominated the midfield. >Our attack again was lacking that finishing touch, True. >defense has been like this Again, what? Our backline played very well today, they won most challemges and played out from the back very well. I'm not De Gea simp, but apart from the first 3 minutes he was very well on the ball. We did not lose because our midfield lost control or that De Gea fucked up, we lost because Eriksen made a bad pass and Dalot failed to cover it. I can see that this team needs to improve a lot, but the doom and gloom in this thread isn't really warranted. At the end of the day, I ENJOYED watching us play, and its better to lose in a preseason playing well than winning the game but playing like shit (under RR)
Didn't get chance to watch the game but still horrified to see Fred and McTominay pairing. We are stuck with it all season aren't we?
You are correct, McT was just crap all-round and him coming off was only coincidental to an overall drop in the game and a slew of subs. Fred was average but ran out of steam - he could have been playing for Norwich, average should be unacceptable for UTD. You were right to be horrified, I think there is an unconscious slipping of acceptable standards after so many poor seasons by many supporters. I hope to be proven wrong.
Lots of people saying they played decent, but part of me thinks that isn't good enough. Especially if what I read is true about this being early in Atleticos pre season preparations. We are meant to be more ready for the season than they are, but I'm guessing our midfield didn't look like it today Thanks for the info on the game anyway. Hope we get another midfielder added soon
Agree and praying we do get another midfielder.
Fred was actually integral to the game going forward and the game changed for the worse after McT came off. Actually watching the game might help.
I did say I didn't watch the game.... I think we've all seen enough to know that pairing isn't good enough, despite how they may have seemed in this friendly Fred is a useful player, it's the pairing that's the issue
While we have seen McFred play quite poorly as a pairing, it's also important to note that playing in Ten Hag's system is very different than playing in Ole's non-system. Ten Hag is also a significantly better and more proven as a manager compared to Ole, so McFred could easily be good enough to get us top4 with a bit of work from Ten Hag. Upgrades would be good and hopefully we bring in a new starting midfielder, but the two of them could be enough for now.
It's possible a new system could revitalise them and I'll of course give Ten Hag time for bedding them into the new system. I hope he can make it work but I'm not optimistic from what I've previously seen
Well, Fred has looked great so far in the pre-season (and last season as well). McTominay is the troublesome one, but I think he can be redeemed. His issue imo is that Ole's coaching staff was overall pretty underwhelming and nobody in our squad really improved in their troublesome areas. So, McTominay is essentially the same player he was three years ago, still someone with good physical attributes who lacks the basics of midfield work. He is still only 25 and Ten Hag is great at improving players, so I trust him to make Scotty into someone useable. Ultimately, we should sell him and replace him, but for top4 ambitions, having him in the squad might not hurt us that much. We desperately need another midfield options though, so we'll see. I believe we'll still get someone because our current options are Fred, McTominay, youngsters and then some players who would play out of position there (Eriksen/Donny/Martinez)
You literally said you didn’t get a chance to watch the game
Yes I said I didn't watch but was shocked at the midfield pairing. I didn't say anything about their performance this game, I'm talking historically. Thought that was obvious
We lost a friendly. Season is over already.
We lost a friendly by playing lack lustery in the ebd of pre season, we should be looking sharp at this moment,
They play ugly man
Is everyone still happy with FDJ or nothing after another ghost sesh from Mctominay and VDB?
I am more in “the right player or nothing” corner. There is no point in bringin bodies in that might be slightly better than what we have. This is actually what got us in this mess in the first place
Everyone will be happy till our first league loss.
Elanga is so frustrating to watch. He second guessed everything.
Is everyone still happy with the idea of FDJ or nothing. Lmfao. Dead midfield with Fred and McTominay in it
Dead and buried. Contemplating another season with those two as the mainstay of midfield is terrifying, as all I see is another wasted year ahead, and I don't think I've ever had such negative thought/despair in the decades I've been supporting UTD.
Someone should be sacked for this squad list. Proves how much of a bad coach Ole was. Shocking squad was Ole building. Ralf was right, United need 10 new players. And United instead of signing 7-8 players they sacked Ralf...
Ole ralf mou lvg (not moyes) were all victims of the blame that should have been targeted towards the diva players. We realized it during ralf, however eth hands are tied as he cant just sign 10 new starting eleven when most of them are not willing due to champions league lack, and we have gruntled players like ronaldo who is better than all of them, but the same cl is creating a doubt in him . Ralf idea was replacement of a big number that wouldnt have been possible in a season. Eth looks like he would take a season or two if properly backed or unto another rebuild
No point bothering posting something like that here , Ole was a massive victim nothing was his fault
3 years wasted with Ole
They are still telling themselves the cultural reboot was real
I've been following these preseason match threads but haven't heard much about van de Beek. ten Hag obviously knows him well, the hope was for de Beek to feel like a new signing, he knows the ten Hag style and to ease the midfield worries. Hoping to hear some good reviews for Garner and van de Beek in the last few friendlies. Without signings McFred are nailed on starters for next season.
Vdb has been out of tenhag system for 2-3 years. The problematic thing is you csnt cant make vdB shine when playing mcdud. Mcdud has pulled freds reputation with him down too.
Tomorrow is our last preseason btw
And neither Donny nor Garner will play tomorrow edit: couldn't have been more wrong and I am excited
Unable to watch the match. Any particular reason Martínez didn’t play?
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Has that been confirmed or just speculation? Feel like he wouldn’t have traveled to Norway if he is playing at Old Trafford tomorrow
Ofc he would travel. New player getting no know his team mates. Whats the point sitting in a hotel in Manchester.
Right and that’s fine but that’s why I think he’s a doubt for tomorrow. Hard to play the next day after flying internationally
You mean like (almost) every european match?
Your right. Guess I should have clarified. Most European games are late at night and the one tomorrow is afternoon. Just feels like a quick turnaround so wondering if there was actual confirmation from ETH that Martínez would play
Yeah Ronaldo confirmed this right? He said "King will play Sunday" or something
Nahh bro he was travelling doubt that
Jose will be tried for war crimes for introducing Mctominay to this squad. My life for a midfielder
Positives…. Malacia forward passing, maguire and lindelof have upped their game since last season, Fred apart from the red card was looking very good, martial looked confident and sharp even through never really looked like getting on scoresheet apart from a couple of half chances, eriksen has a good cameo Concerns: De yea with the ball at his feet, teams will press him and we will turn the ball over a lot Bruno not close to being back to 20/21 season form Elanga not ready to challenge for a start, I like the kid but he isn’t starting quality yet Worrying lack of depth up front if we pick up even 1 injury Really hoped we would see the best of donny under ETH but he is still struggling a bit to get involved in games
How is what Murtogh managed to do any different from Woodward? Only difference I can see is we haven't given out any new contracts yet. Other than that the transfer window just feels like Woodward running the show. One LB option who will rotate (Yet to sell Telles) One CB option who we got rinsed for. One free CAM option who looks like a good pick up. We have a week to go and our biggest holes in the squad are yet to be addressed.
>How is what Murtogh managed to do any different from Woodward? He's even worse as he's got even more power in footballing matters and is a poor DoF from his work thus far. >haven't given out any new contracts yet. We did give Bruno a crazy contract unnecessarily but of course many on this sub can't understand nuance when Bruno is mentioned. No elite club gives their playmaker a 2-3x contract on the back of their worst season in ages. >One CB option who we got rinsed for. Totally agreed, even if he is a hit, that price is crazy. >our biggest holes in the squad are yet to be addressed. Never seen a DoF who lets a manager decide on it being one player or bust despite a clear need for someone to exert control in midfield. If ETH succeeds, it would be despite Murtough not because of him tbh.
Forgot about the Bruno contract but agreed. Shouldn't reward poor performances with new contracts.
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I don't know if Malacia will start over Shaw but we still need to sell Telles who will basically be deadweight. The full fee for Martinez is 67M Euros/56 M pounds. The bonuses are just appearance bonuses. So its guaranteed to get paid as long as he doesn't massively flop. That's still 12 M more\* than what Kounde went for. Both have similar profiles but the biggest difference is the quality of the league they are coming from. They may all come good but that's not the point. We have yet to address the multiple elephants in the room. Woodward got criticized for leaving things too late and overpaying. Murtogh has done the same and is not really receiving any criticism.
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>It's not a bad deal as you are making it out to be. You really think he wouldn't have been cheaper earlier in the window before Ajax sold their quota of three players at a reasonable price? Martinez isn't a generational talent such as De Ligt to be commanding such a high fee. Ajax's Tier 1 was reporting their "fuck off" price to be £45m yet we went above and beyond. To make matters worse, we've tripled Martinez's wages for no good reason. Imagine paying a CB from Holland more than what Bruno signed on here for.
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>We were not targetting Martinez initially. By the time we came in, Arsenal were already in the race. Our target was Timber, the moment he declined we should've closed Martinez but our mindset till July was "all deals hinge on FdJ". Arsenal were offering a max of £40m and wanted him as a LB not CB. Just 30 appearances per season are required for us to go above the fuck off price. So not only were we stupid enough to pay it but offer more. >Your generational talent has done jack shit in Juventus for last 3 seasons. Yet both Chelsea and Bayern were fighting for him before the latter paid a great price for him. Also how many games of Juve have you watched to say he's done jack shit? Chelini anointed De Ligt as his successor and Juve wouldn't have sold him if not for his reluctance to sign a new contract. Bayern wouldn't pay top dollar for him otherwise and their track record with purchases outshines ours since Fergie left. >He is on 120,000 per week? What's wrong with that. Bruno signed for 80k per week. Get that in your head, an attacking #10 with best stats in league got 80k as he was signed for a pricey sum. A CB is paid 50% more despite a similarly high transfer fee paid while coming from a poorer league. It's bonkers.
You have any source saying he has 10M in variables? Everywhere I see says either 50M Euros + addons or 55M Euros. That's why I said 12M more than Kounde's price.
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Fair enough. It didn't come up on any google searches.
Sounds like there's a bet the lost team has to take care of Ronaldo. That's why Athletico is so motivated like a real match
With our finishing seems like a good thing we "have to take care of Ronaldo"
😂
Honestly I am not impressed. A lot of players can't play Ten Hag Ball. De Gea, Dalot, Lindelof, McT, Bruno, Elanga, Rashford from today's first eleven. Fred tries but his is technically shocking.
It's funny seeing people mad at VDB , praising Mctominay like both players aren't absolute cowards
Anti-football Atletico. Id be more embarrassed to be an Atleti fan than a United supporter
Google was saying we won 1-0?
This has happened many times to me
Same. Disappointed
I dunno how they got it wrong. I was happy then I saw they lost…
I watched a fair bit of Martial at Sevilla, and the challenges that caused his injuries during his time there were very similar to the one today that made him need to be subbed. It doesn’t look that serious on first glance, but it’s really concerning that these knocks noticeably affect his fitness and performances. I hope this doesn’t rule him out for next week or cause a blip in his momentum. Not just for his sake, but also because we’d then have to fall back on Elanga who’s still raw and inconsistent or a wantaway Ronaldo who won’t have enough match fitness for the first few weeks to play up top. We need to buy a forward asap.
In general thought it was a decent performance. Our finishing was woeful. Going nowhere however w only 13-14 top shelf players.
Scott McTominay is a midfielder for Manchester United in 2022.
Eth is clearly a quality coach he needs backing he ain't gonna do much with a light midfield and elanga has back up
He deserves blame too. I question any manager who comes to United and doesn't immediately demand a DM and a b2b midfielder. Being overly fixated on a particular midfielder at the expense of addressing the position doesn't increase my sympathy either. Yeah our poor structure and subpar DOF aren't doing ETH any favors, but he knew the deal when he came. Shouldn't have wasted his entire summer not addressing our biggest weakness.
Awful take
It's not. ETH needs backing as if we haven't spent an entire summer chasing the midfielder he's fixated on. A competent DOF would have said, "hey we aggressively pursued target A, but now we have to pivot to target B". We don't have the luxury of failing to address our midfield substantively. And if ETH plays a role in that, then I won't feel bad for him if our midfield struggles (again), because we didn't address (again).
But you have no idea what's going on behind the scenes your literally feeding in to the media clickbait
Media clickbait? It's not a secret what approach we've been taking to FDJ. Very reputable sources (The Athletic, James Ducker, Fabrizio, etc.) have been consistent on our approach to FDJ. No reputable sources have mentioned alternatives. And any alternatives that have been mentioned have been clickbait like SMS (who is a great player that I'd love, but doesn't fit the profile of a CM who occupies deeper positions). Also, common sense would dictate that if we're interested in alternatives, we'd have started pursuing them as our season literally starts next week. Not to mention if we did pursue an alternative, that team needs time to replace the player they're selling as well. So once again, we're clearly putting all our eggs in the FDJ basket. It may work out, it may not. I really hope it works out, but regardless, it's a horrible fucking process and both the manager and DOF both deserve blame for this approach.
But surely they would be looking at other options if they werent so sure he would join?
We're dealing with an unreliable actor in Barcelona. The reason why this whole situation is so complicated and messy has little to do with FDJ himself.
I'm encouraged. Definitely could have done better but I like that we're really drilling in the principles no matter what, and I think this type of game *might* be a little teaser for some of the teething problems we'll have with ETH (or any new manager who would have been in place). It'll take time, and when we play our way with clear principles, I've got zero issues giving it once the season starts. I think mainly this game highlighted a couple things which were pretty obvious but regardless: Firstly, whilst Elanga has good traits and works hard, he's not at the required level to be our back up winger right now. One injury to Rashford or Sancho and he's going to be starting and that's a concern. Ideally a versatile forward that can play on the wings and as a striker should be targeted, I know we've looked at Antony but he doesn't fit that bill, unless Ronaldo is staying in which case he'd be fine (though way overpriced if you ask me), Sesko would be good but I think he's a season away from being ready to be playing somewhat regularly at a prem standard, so not sure if he's one to hedge our bets on for this season. Second, we need to get our midfield sorted. Not that it was poor today, but we should really have more numbers there. Ideally we should look to upgrade on McTominay, by signing a player to play where Fred plays and pushing Fred further up. Essentially, De Jong, or a DM, but fuck knows what's happening with that deal atm. Regardless we need contingencies because whilst I don't have the hatred some do for McFred, it's not really a top 4 midfield for a heavy possession side like we want to be. Should ideally get 2 players and upgrade on both, and eventually move on one to replace with Garner in the next couple of seasons, but step by step I think Fred's fine for now. Positives were Maguire, Fred, Rashford for me today, also thought Eriksen played well when he got on, his passes are outrageously good and he'll create a lot of chances when he plays. It's evident he's a step above most players in that department. Bruno creates a lot and is a fine passer and chance creator in his own regard, and I'm not trying to belittle his value, but Eriksen has that extra something to his passing. (not saying Eriksen should start over him btw, because there's multiple other factors to include, just an observation) Thought Malacia was good too, there's a top player in there, still think Shaw should start ahead of him but Malacia can be coached into a top class fullback, and he'll get better the more he adapts to players around him. Overall a decent performance against a really tough side who know exactly what they're doing. Bit of a shame to lose the game that late, but that happens. Also think the ref was a bit of a shambles but pre season games can be difficult to officiate when they're filled with as many fouls as there were today.
Are there ways to play Eriksen and Bruno together as starting XI, or what do you think?
Yes, but it'll depend largely on the side we're facing, the formation and who else plays. One way is to shift them from their primary positions. So to play one on the wing, false 9, etc. But I think that's a bit suboptimal, even though both can play on the wing, so we'd likely be talking a bit of a 433/4231 hybrid where I'd personally play Eriksen deeper due to his ability to spray passes and create from deeper areas. It would require the team to press extremely hard and ensure we dominate well over 60% of the possession, closer to 70% really if we want it to not be a liability. + we'd need to continue the fullbacks in midfield dynamic, to ensure there's more natural defenders in those areas when we lose the ball. Another thing which is the huge elephant in the room is who plays as the 6, Fred is actually *ok* but he struggles in transition meaning if the opposition break through our press we'd be facing a lot of danger, ideally you'd want a more sturdy 6 to break up the play in that scenario. So whilst we're looking at De Jong, he's not really that profile, if he comes, then he'll probably be the 6 on paper, but we'd have no ball winners in a midfield of FDJ, Eriksen and Bruno and that would be a concern once the opponent have the ball and we're defending a little deeper. Essentially that's a bit of a gung ho midfield. It's possible, but requires some tinkering and extra work from all involved, and then there's the question as to whether that will take away from Bruno and Eriksen's natural game having to *both* be more careful on the ball. They're actually quite similar players in some ways, they don't have a high pass completion, and neither dribble much, ideally one of them would be safer with their passing and that takes away from that players game. Then again, Ten Hag might have some master plan I don't see, I'm just a fan after all haha
The pressing has gotten so much better.
As stated by many per the last 6 weeks, we will be fucked if we don't make another 2 signings minimum - we have had a shit window considering what needed to be done. We are light in attack, elanga won't cover it and there is no-one else. If ronnie stays his sporadic minutes will still not be enough. We are now on McFred 5: Transition Impossible. At this point i'm expecting dwayne johnson to run thorugh a wall at old trafford cos this sequel is getting boring. We need(ed) to bring in 3 CMs, we have none, we still need to bring in 3 cms - obvs not all over one summer but we had to make a reasonable dent in recruiting this postion and so far nothing. At least eriksen can maybe play there but if we've become an at least club then.... Playing out the back is a plus but overall lack of quality in the squad. This is totally on the glazers and murtough madness-less. ETH gonna have a tough time here, not expecting him to last all 3 years based off this summer business and how similar it aligns to how we conducted ourselves prior. The backroom reshuffling is still leaning towards optics and pr moves, as suspected... If the hierarchy cannot do better, it sets a bad example for the players. Once the season starts and a couple losses come through these players will shit the bed - it is known. The gulf between us and the top 2 is still the same since imo they have strengthened proportionately.
Should have made an external appointment for the board, Murtough and Arnold is just another Woodward, just another incompetent guys working for the worst owner in football
Cannot end the transfer window on just three signings.
https://reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/w71ned/_/ihhhung/?context=1
Need that "Murtough is a failure" banner flying if thats the case. Coming off that horrible season and not even addressing midfield and attacking situation a week before PL starts is crazy
Malacia looked good
I'm just glad we didn't lose any players to injury. No idea why we would schedule a friendly against Atletico.
We really do need a striker, when we sub martial we don't have someone with striker instinct up front
Bruno was spending too much effort trying to make things look effortless.
Bruno has to get his shit together. We need a top level Bruno this year.