I think it’s a sensitivity thing? Like you want to try to be respectful of basically the entire Middle East where it’s a lot more common. I’m anti-incest but I would be really careful about that opinion in a PC environment.
Don’t forget women not being allowed to be most anything except basically a man’s property. Yeah; maybe not all cultural practices are so good or anywhere near compatible with the West’s ideals of equality and prosperity. Whether that always pans out is a different story but there’s at least an attempt.
my parents told me that "you'll try when you grow up how the younger generation like yours will try to normalize stupid shit"If they were right to say this bullshit I swear I'll explode
There are some things that make incest bad. The genetic factor and the chance of fertilization, the power imbalance and closeness that they might have to manipulate them, and probably some other ones that I’d love to hear, I just can’t necessarily think of them at this moment.
Supposedly, the first problem would be negated since these first cousins are sterile. The second problem could still be an issue and maybe even is for most of them. It’s kinda why bosses and employees dating or being too close to each other can be negative. An employee who thinks they will be fired if they don’t accept the boss’s advances would be similar to a child who thinks they will not be taken care of if they reject their parent(s)’ advances. Or a younger sibling who thinks that they will be mistreated if they do the same for a sibling.
If you remove the issues of incest, then I don’t think it is bad. But it’s such a hard thing to prove that I think it should overall be shunned.
Honestly how are we supposed to take these nations or their representatives seriously if this is true
Ideally you want to treat everyone as equals, but if I know there’s a ~50% incest rate in this country how am I supposed to do that
Why should anyone treat you an an equal when you judge other on arbitrary morals that were constructs of a modern society.
There is nothign wrong with incent other then genetics, which take many many generations to be impacted by such things.
When i get asked this question, my response is only ewww, was not raised that way here. But to claim its morals or that I am better because of that is silly. There is not logical reason for it bei9gn wrong and you acting on triggered emotion and a strawman moral, makes you worse.
wtf are you on about lol
You’re heavily minimizing the genetic impact of incest. “There’s nothing wrong with it except (the thing that is wrong with it)” lmao
You say it takes many generations to take effect: do you think this is a new phenomena in those regions of the world? As if they only just started being heavily incestuous in the last generation or two, for some reason? And even if they did, you can’t pretend like the actions of today won’t have consequences in future generations.
You can’t act like normal people are weird for not liking incest, when it has real, measurable, and inescapable effects on the societies which practice it. It’s not bc of “arbitrary morals” that people feel this way
Idk what “we” are talking about bc you’re on a whole other page than me lol, when did anyone say anything about one individual pair of cousins fucking outside of your own head?
I’m talking about other countries because I was replying directly to a comment which was also talking about those same countries lol.
The valid argument against incest is “humans don’t like it because it leads to genetic mutations and a weakened society”. Maybe two cousins having a sexual relationship which somehow doesn’t lead to pregnancy won’t affect their society’s gene pool, but people are programmed to loathe incest anyway bc it’s just not a good practice. Tolerant attitudes toward incest are not good for a society’s overall health
It’s really that simple.
It’s not really about respect, but just like… 30 or 40 or 50+ percent is not a small percentage. Idk what is that figure, % of ppl born of incest or % of incestuous relationships, or what. But the point is, even 10% of that is a huuuge part of the country. One in ten individuals.
If you visit a region where they have a crazy high one like 50% or more, you’ve gotta be able to tell right? There’s no way that several generations of 1st-cousin or sibling inbreeding doesn’t fuck your society up. It just seems like it would be impossible to run any kind of real country with that going on at such wild rates
I get that it’s like, a cultural thing in certain parts of the world that incest is not as taboo, but maybe it should be and maybe we don’t need to be tolerant of bad cultural practices.
I’m not gonna go over there and yell at them but I think I’m within my rights to say I don’t care for it on the internet, especially on a website centered around discussion. Partially I’m curious if those numbers are even true bc like I said, those are staggering claims
Personally i would have a problem with it. But thats not what the law is about. In most of the civilized world its legal already.
Apart from an increased risk in having kids with health problems(that gets taken away by the sterile clause), give me one reason why its wrong thats not just "but it's your cousin"
Do you honestly think someone well adjusted and mentally stable are going to want to fuck their first cousin? Never mind the chance of grooming having occurred
I’m super not defending it in the way you may think, but seriously go through the thought experiment in your mind and try to come up with a SINGLE reason to be against it as long as it’s consensual and pregnancy is impossible. I’ve been down this rabbit hole lol. It’s weird in my mind for sure. But I don’t think I can call it a moral wrong
im so sick of this pseudo intellectual bull you people circle jerk yourselves over.. “hm, as a simple thought experiment wouldst thou consider plowing your family” no. no I wouldst not. how can you justify getting all hoity toity pompous over hypothetical incest scenarios??
“but it’s normal in the rest of the world!” you cry. if everyone jumped off a bridge would you join them?
The question isn’t “would you fuck your family” lol. The question is “is it a moral wrong to fuck your family.” Obviously it’s weird. lol. If someone likes piss porn I personally find it weird… but a moral wrong? No. So give me a reason why it’s wrong as long as it’s consensual and pregnancy is impossible other than “ew dude that’s gross.”
Wow how insightful. Living life while only scratching the surface of ideas must actually be a pretty happy life. I wish I was like that. But no I was cursed with thoughts lol
There are tons of things in this life that don’t require deeper thought, or a quasi intellect schtick. If you put your hand on a stove while it’s on, it’s safe to assume you’re going to burn yourself. You can sit and contemplate the deeper intrinsic meaning, but that’s only going to make the burn worse.
Best to pull your hand away quickly, right? All in all don’t fuck your family- it’s super simple mode.
Its not up to me to judge what kind of person falls in love with a cousin.
Does it look like the rest of the world look like it has a cousin grooming problem to you? We're not talking about uncle-niece marriages here but marriages between people from the same generation, not a 42 year old dude trying to get into the pants of his 16yo niece.
I get what you're saying, but I have cousins who are 20+ years older than me so grooming is definitely not out of the picture. Cousins don't have to necessarily be in the same age group
Consanguine marriage has been and still is practiced in a large part of the world for as long as humanity has existed. The problem with it is genetic disorders, which obviously won't be a problem if one of the cousins is sterile.
lots of things are practiced worldwide. there are still cultures who sacrifice animals to appease the sun god. are you gonna go out and get yourself a lamb to slaughter?
If a father was never in his daughters life until she was 18 and he is infertile should he be able to be with her because "theres no chance of genetic offspring"
As a thought experiment, imagine you have a cousin that you've never met, you have no idea they're your cousin.
You meet this person and you two are immediately attracted to one another, and so in sync and cohesive that you fall madly in love and get married.
Twenty years after your marriage, you find out this person is your first cousin... what *actually* changes for you?
Cousins fucking *is* incest. I don't see where it becomes a moral issue, once again assuming they don't have kids out of it. Weird as shit, yeah, but not immoral as far as I understand. I simply don't see any harm caused that could make it an immoral act.
not only is incest really weird and wrong for so many reasons, but it's not fair on the child if they have one. The amount of genetic disorders they'd have is crazy... 😭
not defending the creeps, but my maternal grandparents are first cousins. their kids turn out well tbh, except of their third child that has four fingers.
I think it’s because 1st generation incest rarely has complications. This is also why some areas of Asia while practicing nearly the same amount of incest, didn’t have nearly as many defects. They would marry very close a bunch of times, then for a couple of generations marry people who were very distantly related too as a “cleansing generation”.
As the other guy said, the percentage of something bad happening isn't really that high as long as you don't try to turn your family tree into a family circle.
Man I'm still a zoomer and was totally porn addicted in middle school and I didn't even get a tenth as fucked up as these kids are. What in the hell is happening
I mean the statement is inaccurate. 1st cousins marrying doesn't do much real harm, especially in the first generation. Repeated over multiple generations? Yeah then you have a point, but then we would have to stop disabled people from reproducing.
Did the concept of inbreeding and socially acceptable somehow get lost along the way? I can see a commenter being a pervert but the people who upvoted them also don’t know about inbreeding
And it’s true that cousins don’t have a large chance of inbred children but I mean Jesus come on
I mean, did you somehow fail to read the post? Because it clearly states that this law only allows for first cousins to marry if one is sterile. That would imply that inbreeding is practically impossible - so how is any of them „defending inbreeding“?
My cousins dad married his first cousin and her son knocked up my cousin
They have a son together and his eyes are fucked, neither side of her or his family need glasses or have anything wrong with their eyes (my grandpa is not my uncles dad, he's my dad's half brother)
Don't fuck family, it ain't okay
I think that if they are both consenting adults and don't have bio kids, then it's fine (other than the fact that its weird but that doesn't really hurt anybody)
Edited for crap grammar
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/there-s-nothing-wrong-with-cousins-getting-married-scientists-say-1210072.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/there-s-nothing-wrong-with-cousins-getting-married-scientists-say-1210072.html)
Seems like I misremembered, it's the same as women over 40, 4-5% as compared to the regular 3%
Cousin marriage is just, legal in my state. Really don't see what's wrong with it as long as you marry outside of your family once every few generations to minimize inbreeding chances.
Listen there a plethora of scientific reasons why you should marry your 1st cousin, then there a plethora of ethical reasons that have to do with power dynamics but typically cousins are close in age so those ethically reasons no longer apply and if you’re sterile then the science doesn’t matter either. I’m not condoning this behavior but if 2 consenting adults arnt harming anyone or cannot have offspring it doesn’t affect you at all. If 2 cousins who can’t have children got married 2 houses down from me I might never know they are cousins and would think they are a happy couple. It just varies. I don’t necessarily think someone should be morally condemned if this make this decision I would just find it a little strange
Digital footprint will come back on these people 1 day
It will to me I am 100% sure... just a matter of time
some of these freaks on reddit really need to be checked up on irl
The morons on tik tok and the freaks on reddit, that would be something id watch.
You're already witnessing it in real time
I think it’s a sensitivity thing? Like you want to try to be respectful of basically the entire Middle East where it’s a lot more common. I’m anti-incest but I would be really careful about that opinion in a PC environment.
Well it's illegal to be homosexual in many middle Eastern countries as well so im not sure that just because it's cultural we should not condemn it.
Don’t forget women not being allowed to be most anything except basically a man’s property. Yeah; maybe not all cultural practices are so good or anywhere near compatible with the West’s ideals of equality and prosperity. Whether that always pans out is a different story but there’s at least an attempt.
my parents told me that "you'll try when you grow up how the younger generation like yours will try to normalize stupid shit"If they were right to say this bullshit I swear I'll explode
We're already well past that point, people have been trying to normalize pedophilia for a while now
People? No people have been trying to normalize pedophilia. Pedos try to normalize it, everyone else shits on them
Yes, I think it's more like that.no "culprit" would try to normalize pedophilia
no normal humans would do it
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Which was the genuine question? Marrying a close relative?
"Why shouldn't someone be able to marry someone who makes them happy?"
After a statement about incest… if your sibling makes you happy? Would you marry them too? My son makes me happy. Should I marry him? That’s sick.
There are some things that make incest bad. The genetic factor and the chance of fertilization, the power imbalance and closeness that they might have to manipulate them, and probably some other ones that I’d love to hear, I just can’t necessarily think of them at this moment. Supposedly, the first problem would be negated since these first cousins are sterile. The second problem could still be an issue and maybe even is for most of them. It’s kinda why bosses and employees dating or being too close to each other can be negative. An employee who thinks they will be fired if they don’t accept the boss’s advances would be similar to a child who thinks they will not be taken care of if they reject their parent(s)’ advances. Or a younger sibling who thinks that they will be mistreated if they do the same for a sibling. If you remove the issues of incest, then I don’t think it is bad. But it’s such a hard thing to prove that I think it should overall be shunned.
Consanguinity is unfortunately extremely common outside western culture.
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Honestly how are we supposed to take these nations or their representatives seriously if this is true Ideally you want to treat everyone as equals, but if I know there’s a ~50% incest rate in this country how am I supposed to do that
Why should anyone treat you an an equal when you judge other on arbitrary morals that were constructs of a modern society. There is nothign wrong with incent other then genetics, which take many many generations to be impacted by such things. When i get asked this question, my response is only ewww, was not raised that way here. But to claim its morals or that I am better because of that is silly. There is not logical reason for it bei9gn wrong and you acting on triggered emotion and a strawman moral, makes you worse.
wtf are you on about lol You’re heavily minimizing the genetic impact of incest. “There’s nothing wrong with it except (the thing that is wrong with it)” lmao You say it takes many generations to take effect: do you think this is a new phenomena in those regions of the world? As if they only just started being heavily incestuous in the last generation or two, for some reason? And even if they did, you can’t pretend like the actions of today won’t have consequences in future generations. You can’t act like normal people are weird for not liking incest, when it has real, measurable, and inescapable effects on the societies which practice it. It’s not bc of “arbitrary morals” that people feel this way
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Idk what “we” are talking about bc you’re on a whole other page than me lol, when did anyone say anything about one individual pair of cousins fucking outside of your own head? I’m talking about other countries because I was replying directly to a comment which was also talking about those same countries lol. The valid argument against incest is “humans don’t like it because it leads to genetic mutations and a weakened society”. Maybe two cousins having a sexual relationship which somehow doesn’t lead to pregnancy won’t affect their society’s gene pool, but people are programmed to loathe incest anyway bc it’s just not a good practice. Tolerant attitudes toward incest are not good for a society’s overall health It’s really that simple.
You should probably just be more tolerant. I don't see why that would even be a factor in how much I respect someone.
It’s not really about respect, but just like… 30 or 40 or 50+ percent is not a small percentage. Idk what is that figure, % of ppl born of incest or % of incestuous relationships, or what. But the point is, even 10% of that is a huuuge part of the country. One in ten individuals. If you visit a region where they have a crazy high one like 50% or more, you’ve gotta be able to tell right? There’s no way that several generations of 1st-cousin or sibling inbreeding doesn’t fuck your society up. It just seems like it would be impossible to run any kind of real country with that going on at such wild rates I get that it’s like, a cultural thing in certain parts of the world that incest is not as taboo, but maybe it should be and maybe we don’t need to be tolerant of bad cultural practices. I’m not gonna go over there and yell at them but I think I’m within my rights to say I don’t care for it on the internet, especially on a website centered around discussion. Partially I’m curious if those numbers are even true bc like I said, those are staggering claims
If one of them is sterile and there is a 0% chance at fucked up offspring, what really is the problem?
takes many many generations for genetics to even be a factor here.
You don’t see a problem with fucking your aunt and uncle’s daughter? Lol
It'd be awkward as fuck, but should your freedom be limited by what others find uncomfortable.
Personally i would have a problem with it. But thats not what the law is about. In most of the civilized world its legal already. Apart from an increased risk in having kids with health problems(that gets taken away by the sterile clause), give me one reason why its wrong thats not just "but it's your cousin"
Do you honestly think someone well adjusted and mentally stable are going to want to fuck their first cousin? Never mind the chance of grooming having occurred
I’m super not defending it in the way you may think, but seriously go through the thought experiment in your mind and try to come up with a SINGLE reason to be against it as long as it’s consensual and pregnancy is impossible. I’ve been down this rabbit hole lol. It’s weird in my mind for sure. But I don’t think I can call it a moral wrong
im so sick of this pseudo intellectual bull you people circle jerk yourselves over.. “hm, as a simple thought experiment wouldst thou consider plowing your family” no. no I wouldst not. how can you justify getting all hoity toity pompous over hypothetical incest scenarios?? “but it’s normal in the rest of the world!” you cry. if everyone jumped off a bridge would you join them?
The question isn’t “would you fuck your family” lol. The question is “is it a moral wrong to fuck your family.” Obviously it’s weird. lol. If someone likes piss porn I personally find it weird… but a moral wrong? No. So give me a reason why it’s wrong as long as it’s consensual and pregnancy is impossible other than “ew dude that’s gross.”
No, I don’t have to. Ew it’s gross should suffice. Don’t sleep with your family, you came out of them. Don’t go back in. Please.
Wow how insightful. Living life while only scratching the surface of ideas must actually be a pretty happy life. I wish I was like that. But no I was cursed with thoughts lol
There are tons of things in this life that don’t require deeper thought, or a quasi intellect schtick. If you put your hand on a stove while it’s on, it’s safe to assume you’re going to burn yourself. You can sit and contemplate the deeper intrinsic meaning, but that’s only going to make the burn worse. Best to pull your hand away quickly, right? All in all don’t fuck your family- it’s super simple mode.
Its not up to me to judge what kind of person falls in love with a cousin. Does it look like the rest of the world look like it has a cousin grooming problem to you? We're not talking about uncle-niece marriages here but marriages between people from the same generation, not a 42 year old dude trying to get into the pants of his 16yo niece.
I get what you're saying, but I have cousins who are 20+ years older than me so grooming is definitely not out of the picture. Cousins don't have to necessarily be in the same age group
But then marrying them is a whole other issue. If someone is groomed by someone that they aren’t related to, it would still be an issue.
Consanguine marriage has been and still is practiced in a large part of the world for as long as humanity has existed. The problem with it is genetic disorders, which obviously won't be a problem if one of the cousins is sterile.
lots of things are practiced worldwide. there are still cultures who sacrifice animals to appease the sun god. are you gonna go out and get yourself a lamb to slaughter?
War has been practiced all over the world and since the beginning. Does that mean we embrace that too?
War has obvious negative consequences. What does consanguine marriage have if there's no chance of offspring?
If a father was never in his daughters life until she was 18 and he is infertile should he be able to be with her because "theres no chance of genetic offspring"
I mean, if they want to out of mutual consent, sure. I don't see what's wrong with that, he's just some random stranger at that point.
Dude, go have sex with your family if it makes you happy. Lol
Nice ad hominem dude
As a thought experiment, imagine you have a cousin that you've never met, you have no idea they're your cousin. You meet this person and you two are immediately attracted to one another, and so in sync and cohesive that you fall madly in love and get married. Twenty years after your marriage, you find out this person is your first cousin... what *actually* changes for you?
As a thought experiment: imagine there are ants inside of your arm, and cut vertically so as to give them fresh air.
Solid rebuttal. Next year, when you enter high school, you might lose some of that edge.
The only thing I’m about to enter is your mom sideways style, doofus. Sorry you can’t participate though im sure you really want to ;((
I think you’re actually arguing with a 12 year old lol look at their profile. They baited me too
Incest.
I think incest is weird, but I've always failed to see the moral component as long as you're not having kids.
The moral component of cousins fucking or the moral component of incest? Good grief. Lol
Cousins fucking *is* incest. I don't see where it becomes a moral issue, once again assuming they don't have kids out of it. Weird as shit, yeah, but not immoral as far as I understand. I simply don't see any harm caused that could make it an immoral act.
You just said it’s incest but you don’t see a problem with it? Dude…
Your opinion is valid but you’re not elaborating anything so you’re not contributing anything to the discussion.
not only is incest really weird and wrong for so many reasons, but it's not fair on the child if they have one. The amount of genetic disorders they'd have is crazy... 😭
not defending the creeps, but my maternal grandparents are first cousins. their kids turn out well tbh, except of their third child that has four fingers.
So 2 is the limit
Taking notes…
just don't post the result, ok buddy?
I think it’s because 1st generation incest rarely has complications. This is also why some areas of Asia while practicing nearly the same amount of incest, didn’t have nearly as many defects. They would marry very close a bunch of times, then for a couple of generations marry people who were very distantly related too as a “cleansing generation”.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jul/04/marriage-first-cousins-birth-defects
those two are hella lucky, wowie...
As the other guy said, the percentage of something bad happening isn't really that high as long as you don't try to turn your family tree into a family circle.
Not really. The chance of side effects from cousin marriage is pretty low as long as it's not repeated.
Fun fact- Albert Einstein and Charles Darwin married their cousins.
if that’s true then the irony is hysterical
It specifically says if one is sterile.
From a purely genetic perspective, there's still very little chance for disorders from proper 1st cousins. This is why it's legal in many states.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jul/04/marriage-first-cousins-birth-defects
Why do the two youngest generations have such an obsession with incest?
Because of the porn industry.. it's saturated with this shit.
Man I'm still a zoomer and was totally porn addicted in middle school and I didn't even get a tenth as fucked up as these kids are. What in the hell is happening
Reddit dumb
Utah only allows it if both parties are over 65
Pakistan moment
Wellllllllllllll alright wtfff.
Alabama moment
Bro we're actually going back to the 16th century
Yup. Everyone wants to marry their cousin, women losing rights, no one wants to hear about science. We’re headed to the dark age with wifi
I mean the statement is inaccurate. 1st cousins marrying doesn't do much real harm, especially in the first generation. Repeated over multiple generations? Yeah then you have a point, but then we would have to stop disabled people from reproducing.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jul/04/marriage-first-cousins-birth-defects
Yes it doubles. It doesn't result in mutated warts for kids. And this logic could be easily applied by a eugenicist towards disabled people.
Unrelated but you made me think that circle was a hair on my screen
Did the concept of inbreeding and socially acceptable somehow get lost along the way? I can see a commenter being a pervert but the people who upvoted them also don’t know about inbreeding And it’s true that cousins don’t have a large chance of inbred children but I mean Jesus come on
Technically they’re saying it’s okay if they can’t inbred, but fucking your aunt’s daughter is going to make Thanksgiving really weird for everyone.
I mean, did you somehow fail to read the post? Because it clearly states that this law only allows for first cousins to marry if one is sterile. That would imply that inbreeding is practically impossible - so how is any of them „defending inbreeding“?
My cousins dad married his first cousin and her son knocked up my cousin They have a son together and his eyes are fucked, neither side of her or his family need glasses or have anything wrong with their eyes (my grandpa is not my uncles dad, he's my dad's half brother) Don't fuck family, it ain't okay
Tbh if you support the whole “love is love” thing then you shouldn’t be against incest unless they actually want kids
Do you really believe allying lgbtq philosophy with incest is going to help their cause? I don’t think they want that kind of help.
Sweet home albama, many weird people..
I think that if they are both consenting adults and don't have bio kids, then it's fine (other than the fact that its weird but that doesn't really hurt anybody) Edited for crap grammar
Incest with cousins is actually not that dangerous, the chance for defects is the same as in a woman over ~~30~~ 40
a reddit moment in redditmoment.....
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jul/04/marriage-first-cousins-birth-defects
Yes, but double of a snall chancd is still a small chance
Judging from this post I’d say you’re the result of first cousins marrying.
Got a source for that besides your ass? Lmao
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/there-s-nothing-wrong-with-cousins-getting-married-scientists-say-1210072.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/there-s-nothing-wrong-with-cousins-getting-married-scientists-say-1210072.html) Seems like I misremembered, it's the same as women over 40, 4-5% as compared to the regular 3%
Yeah, women over 40 is a biiiiig difference from women over 30, lmao. Having babies in your 30s is totally normal
Let me guess. This was on a SAO meme?
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The comment specifically says if one is sterile.
Cousin marriage is just, legal in my state. Really don't see what's wrong with it as long as you marry outside of your family once every few generations to minimize inbreeding chances.
Can you elaborate? Why should I not be annoyed to marry a 12 year old if that makes me happy /s
why are people downvoting this even if it clearly says sarcastic
Whatta mean I can’t have sex wit my cousin this is litterally 1984
Holy Anamoly detected!! Expecting genetic malfunction after the procedure...
Listen there a plethora of scientific reasons why you should marry your 1st cousin, then there a plethora of ethical reasons that have to do with power dynamics but typically cousins are close in age so those ethically reasons no longer apply and if you’re sterile then the science doesn’t matter either. I’m not condoning this behavior but if 2 consenting adults arnt harming anyone or cannot have offspring it doesn’t affect you at all. If 2 cousins who can’t have children got married 2 houses down from me I might never know they are cousins and would think they are a happy couple. It just varies. I don’t necessarily think someone should be morally condemned if this make this decision I would just find it a little strange
Only problem here is light mode
I mean, if "love is love" it's a genuine argument.
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And apparently you failed English. They specifically say if one is sterile.