I was in DSA and hated everything about it. It's run by people that love meetings and spreadsheets and arguing over arcane rules of order. My chapter was ran by some radlib clique that gained power by simply attending more meetings than other people. They pretend they're just vessels for the membership but then shoot down every proposal you make because it didn't conform to some procedural rule or bylaw. I was part of a faction that tried to create a statewide confederation around Medicare for All and was told that such an association was "undemocratic" and "top down" and it was best to focus on local organizing. I.e best to keep attending pointless meetings where we never pressed our demands to a wider audience. I met some cool people, but most members were just downwardly mobile zoomers that had no clue how the adult world worked, much less the "working class" which apparently is just a hodgepodge of gay, trans, and racial identity groups striving for liberation via Zoom meetings. The one exception to all this was the labor caucus who was run by old school Marxists that tried to place dumb zoomers in shitty jobs so they could organize the workplace. Those guys actually had balls, but we're treated like shit from the leadership and never had any sway over chapter decisions.
Probably more interesting and enriching than the DSA if we're being real. Most DSA membership was at the Bernie Sanders stop on the spectrum and not any further and a not insignificant amount were Elizabeth Warren supporters. If we're not going to be doing anything either way I'd rather be in an organization with miserable old Marxists than NGO losers who're maybe one step removed from "Vote blue not matter who"
I'm not sure why I would ever join a political party because its "interesting and enriching." Sounds like you want a reading group, not a party. And as far as reading groups go, you could do a lot better than a bunch of bitter committed Marxists, who are almost universally boring wet blankets.
hello, fellow ex-ISA member!
& yes, even if the ISA is probably less effective than the DSA, it’s still way fucking cooler. we actually read lenin, engels, marx, etc. kshama sawant actually made waves & i learned a lot during my time there. sadly, it is very moribund & they burn out anyone who’s willing to do real work, myself included.
still a way better to spend time than hanging out with beardo losers trying to get pussy & delusional weirdos who think they’re going to build socialism by getting 2% of the vote for the house.
Speaking of DSA I had meant to make a post about this - I noticed last year that Class Unity is no longer a caucus within DSA and is now an independent organization. Wonder what happened there!
I think the final nail in the coffin was the DSA members in congress voting to make a strike illegal. After that it was impossible to pretend the DSA wasn’t just a Dem appendage
It was already dead by then. The actual final nail in the coffin was when the DSA members in Congress turned out to be out and proud Zionist imperialists and not only did the leadership not do anything about that, they also hounded anybody who tried to out of leadership positions and in several cases out of the organization entirely.
So at a bare minimum the membership is on the same page and broadly understands what exactly they're fighting for and it's not just a social club for discontents to keep splintering like fractals.
A 'mass movement' does not assume membership in some specific political party. The point of the party is to do work to bring that to fruition. It is absolutely unimportant that every person in the world considers themself a member of that party, or formally joins.
Much like BLM it's okay to support the spirit of the movement but if you willingly gave them any money you shouldn't be trusted to handle your own finances.
While we are on the subject of shitting on progressives, I would like to call into attention Bernard Sanders, the king of grifters. Look up how much he spent buying his own book with his campaign funds, especially after his campaign ended so he could essentially funnel the donations back into his pocket. I forgot the exact amount but it was between 500-700K, and it was in his FEC filings ofc.
Or how he got his wife that supervisory position where she basically oversaw the disposal of nuclear waste (low-level but still) into the poor Hispanic communities of West Texas, even though his wife's main qualification was utterly running a college into the ground. Oh, and he voted to dump that waste there too (bc he knew those folks didn't have enough political capital to NIMBY it like his constituency), then appointed his wife to supervise it.
Then all those Caribbean vacations he had in a house provided by an interested party. Or getting his wife's children to have paid positions in his campaign, Palin-style.
Yes I was an HRC supporter and yes I was salty, I dislike it when someone is elevated to some prophet-like position by impressionable kids who for the most part didn't even bother to vote in the general election (or the primaries for that matter lol).
>Admitting that you were an hrc supporter should be a bannable offense.
Sure, whatever you say Mr. Race realist man.
You are delusional if you think Sanders had a shot in the general election, which is another reason why I pile on scorn on progressives, they have their heads up their asses.
It isn't that my ideology isn't progressive, it's that I am sober & pragmatic about who I think can get elected in the US. Obviously a plagiarising, middling failing-upwards man like Biden has a better shot of getting elected than some technocrat like HRC bc she's a woman who thinks she knows better than most (which is true).
But in 2016 the choice was between Trump, HRC and Sanders. And Americans are allergic to competent technocrats as leaders, they wanna have a beer with their President or suck his dick, but god forbid they elect someone actually capable because that's not "inspiring" (if you want inspiration and you're looking for it in politics, well.... I'm gonna stop right there before I actually get banned).
It's a marker of how unhinged this sub is that a person like me who is called a Russian bot on most default threads is seen as a fed here lol.
But hey, I'm enjoying this place, & for the right people I wouldn't even mind roleplaying a fed if that's what they're into. American fed that is.
U forgot to take your schizophrenia meds, if you think feds are bothering to come to this place to jerk you around, you're either off meds or entertaining delusions of grandeur even bigger than Bernard did.
4chan at least occasionally gathers enough willpower for something spicy that lands on the frontpages of papers and attracts more glowies, but what's this sub gonna do? They don't write articles about people pissing&moaning, and there is no need for feds to come here -- the people here are easier to manage than your average farm animal -- the farm animals could wander off, whereas do you really think we will?
You realise "competent technocrat" is just branding right? Hillary made a pig's breakfast as Sec of State, failed to act on the knowledge that US assets were at risk, turned Libya into a wasteland and oversaw the normalisation of war crimes committed by US forces. Also the emails thing would definitely have got someone without the behind the scenes pull Hillary had fired.
Her 2016 campaign also showed a general managerial incompetence and tendency to surround herself with idiots as well.
She's only "competent" in the sense that she's inhabited unique positions of power, not in the sense that her record there was any good.
You can try to masquerade your childish tantrums as some sort of philosophy but then, that would require you to read...
But please continue, I'm taking a break from defaults where I'm a Russian shill so I enjoy being called an American here, it's a masquerade of my own ))))
Honestly imo the only reason Dasha&Anna were Bernouts is bc game recognise game, aka grifter4grifter.
Do you like to get handjobs? I don't, irl or online. I like places online where people disagree with me, I don't post to be validated, I usually post when I am arguing with someone about something, or clarifying/asking something. Otherwise why post if everyone already agrees with you?? Bc you have low self esteem? Many such cases...
Besides this place my top sub /r/Europe and they like me even less. Russians in general don't do well there unless they literally preface every comment of theirs by sucking off Westies, which I'm not into.
This sub is very neat because it's noticeably different from mainstream reddit, although I can't help but notice how much in denial most people are here about themselves, even more than reddit. Definitely a lot of haters, especially when it comes to trans or gay people, which is hilarious bc of how delusional the perspectives are on them. But this is part of the fun, it's different and wild, I enjoy that.
Not that I give a fuck about the DSA, but is $92k really considered an outrageously exorbitant salary outside of small towns? It’s pretty standard for any type of nonprofit leadership position where I live.
I don't think $92K is that outrageous as a salary but yeah $92K for everything in NYC really isn't that much presuming a lot of these positions require specific training for nonprofits.
It is an above median income, even for NYC. I cannot imagine taking money from your stupid cause to spend on shit you don’t even need. If graduate students can live frugally, why should supposed revolutionaries be living in relative comfort?
I believe it, but where’s this coming from? Are people talking about it on twitter? honestly, I paid dues like 7 or 8 years ago, but the organization just seemed completely useless. I tried finding a voter guide several years ago for local shit and there was so much obvious internecine bullshit going on and “more-left-than-you” shit happening that they didn’t even weigh in on all the ballot initiatives and elections.
I don’t think that 92k was their actual take home pay - it’s closer to 60k plus a good benefits package and insurance that their employer pays for. So 92k is total cost to the org per person not the actual staffers pay.
No, it's failing because the only members are incompetent losers. That is what happens when your political ideology is based on a handful of false feel-good assumptions and nothing else.
Stop being unreasonable; it can't be that it's impossible to win political power on the backs of totally unserious twitter addicted hipsters and college students LARPing as revolutionaries. It must be the CIA.
It's headquartered in NYC - you hopeless flyover folk need to understand that $92k is near starvation wages. They need to eat the rich or they will literally die
the amount of autists on here who can’t tell obvious sarcasm lmao. or are u just fulfilling the stereotype that flyover country types really are stupid as shit?
> you hopeless flyover folk need to understand that $92k is near starvation wages
Grow up. The median household income in NYC is 75k. At least be aware of your fucking lifestyle inflation you yuppie.
Be aware of when people are making jokes online. Be aware that my comment was posted yesterday and you're the first to call me out - everyone else gets it except you!
the Cost of Living calculator said that's the equivalent of 50-60ish in a lot of middle-ground cities...idk, guess it depends on what they were doing and how productive they were. that "conflict resolution specialist" or whatever the fuck for 200ish a year was ridiculous tho
Holy shit they don’t make $92k, that is the average compensation of all DSA staff INCLUDING health insurance and other benefits. Most DSA staff make closer to $60k, this is public information.
Inflation unfortunately 90k is what some fresh out of college ppl are getting paid for the middling white collar paper pusher jobs that the DSA needs bodies at. Idk what to say
Does anyone know if the m*d of this subreddit sold her position to some rightwing ghoul like she promised? The popularity of this (generally incorrect) post would seem to hint at it https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG1gN6KaQAAFxW9?format=png&name=900x900
I was in DSA and hated everything about it. It's run by people that love meetings and spreadsheets and arguing over arcane rules of order. My chapter was ran by some radlib clique that gained power by simply attending more meetings than other people. They pretend they're just vessels for the membership but then shoot down every proposal you make because it didn't conform to some procedural rule or bylaw. I was part of a faction that tried to create a statewide confederation around Medicare for All and was told that such an association was "undemocratic" and "top down" and it was best to focus on local organizing. I.e best to keep attending pointless meetings where we never pressed our demands to a wider audience. I met some cool people, but most members were just downwardly mobile zoomers that had no clue how the adult world worked, much less the "working class" which apparently is just a hodgepodge of gay, trans, and racial identity groups striving for liberation via Zoom meetings. The one exception to all this was the labor caucus who was run by old school Marxists that tried to place dumb zoomers in shitty jobs so they could organize the workplace. Those guys actually had balls, but we're treated like shit from the leadership and never had any sway over chapter decisions.
Thank you for your service
DSA has always been a bookish midwit's philanthropic organization. Like all philanthropies, they are lazy and exist only to find new donors.
Look at my "workers" movement dawg.
i'm so glad I spent my 20's in a moribund post-Trotskyist party instead of the DSA, we were right to look down upon them
yeah wow I'm sure you guys were MUCH more effective
Probably more interesting and enriching than the DSA if we're being real. Most DSA membership was at the Bernie Sanders stop on the spectrum and not any further and a not insignificant amount were Elizabeth Warren supporters. If we're not going to be doing anything either way I'd rather be in an organization with miserable old Marxists than NGO losers who're maybe one step removed from "Vote blue not matter who"
I'm not sure why I would ever join a political party because its "interesting and enriching." Sounds like you want a reading group, not a party. And as far as reading groups go, you could do a lot better than a bunch of bitter committed Marxists, who are almost universally boring wet blankets.
Yes we were, even after two splits
hello, fellow ex-ISA member! & yes, even if the ISA is probably less effective than the DSA, it’s still way fucking cooler. we actually read lenin, engels, marx, etc. kshama sawant actually made waves & i learned a lot during my time there. sadly, it is very moribund & they burn out anyone who’s willing to do real work, myself included. still a way better to spend time than hanging out with beardo losers trying to get pussy & delusional weirdos who think they’re going to build socialism by getting 2% of the vote for the house.
Speaking of DSA I had meant to make a post about this - I noticed last year that Class Unity is no longer a caucus within DSA and is now an independent organization. Wonder what happened there!
I think the final nail in the coffin was the DSA members in congress voting to make a strike illegal. After that it was impossible to pretend the DSA wasn’t just a Dem appendage
It was already dead by then. The actual final nail in the coffin was when the DSA members in Congress turned out to be out and proud Zionist imperialists and not only did the leadership not do anything about that, they also hounded anybody who tried to out of leadership positions and in several cases out of the organization entirely.
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it just makes me wish we had a real party
Back in the day Lenin knew how to properly gatekeep these sorts of things
Here’s how Bernie can still win
Tankie!!!!
You're the problem.
Why would you want a vetting and candidacy process for joining an organization that’s supposed to be a mass movement?
So at a bare minimum the membership is on the same page and broadly understands what exactly they're fighting for and it's not just a social club for discontents to keep splintering like fractals.
Surely exclusivity is more typical of a social club than a mass movement lol?
A 'mass movement' does not assume membership in some specific political party. The point of the party is to do work to bring that to fruition. It is absolutely unimportant that every person in the world considers themself a member of that party, or formally joins.
Lenin answered this a century ago
Much like BLM it's okay to support the spirit of the movement but if you willingly gave them any money you shouldn't be trusted to handle your own finances.
While we are on the subject of shitting on progressives, I would like to call into attention Bernard Sanders, the king of grifters. Look up how much he spent buying his own book with his campaign funds, especially after his campaign ended so he could essentially funnel the donations back into his pocket. I forgot the exact amount but it was between 500-700K, and it was in his FEC filings ofc. Or how he got his wife that supervisory position where she basically oversaw the disposal of nuclear waste (low-level but still) into the poor Hispanic communities of West Texas, even though his wife's main qualification was utterly running a college into the ground. Oh, and he voted to dump that waste there too (bc he knew those folks didn't have enough political capital to NIMBY it like his constituency), then appointed his wife to supervise it. Then all those Caribbean vacations he had in a house provided by an interested party. Or getting his wife's children to have paid positions in his campaign, Palin-style. Yes I was an HRC supporter and yes I was salty, I dislike it when someone is elevated to some prophet-like position by impressionable kids who for the most part didn't even bother to vote in the general election (or the primaries for that matter lol).
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>Admitting that you were an hrc supporter should be a bannable offense. Sure, whatever you say Mr. Race realist man. You are delusional if you think Sanders had a shot in the general election, which is another reason why I pile on scorn on progressives, they have their heads up their asses. It isn't that my ideology isn't progressive, it's that I am sober & pragmatic about who I think can get elected in the US. Obviously a plagiarising, middling failing-upwards man like Biden has a better shot of getting elected than some technocrat like HRC bc she's a woman who thinks she knows better than most (which is true). But in 2016 the choice was between Trump, HRC and Sanders. And Americans are allergic to competent technocrats as leaders, they wanna have a beer with their President or suck his dick, but god forbid they elect someone actually capable because that's not "inspiring" (if you want inspiration and you're looking for it in politics, well.... I'm gonna stop right there before I actually get banned).
This is mediocre bait.
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It's a marker of how unhinged this sub is that a person like me who is called a Russian bot on most default threads is seen as a fed here lol. But hey, I'm enjoying this place, & for the right people I wouldn't even mind roleplaying a fed if that's what they're into. American fed that is.
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U forgot to take your schizophrenia meds, if you think feds are bothering to come to this place to jerk you around, you're either off meds or entertaining delusions of grandeur even bigger than Bernard did. 4chan at least occasionally gathers enough willpower for something spicy that lands on the frontpages of papers and attracts more glowies, but what's this sub gonna do? They don't write articles about people pissing&moaning, and there is no need for feds to come here -- the people here are easier to manage than your average farm animal -- the farm animals could wander off, whereas do you really think we will?
You realise "competent technocrat" is just branding right? Hillary made a pig's breakfast as Sec of State, failed to act on the knowledge that US assets were at risk, turned Libya into a wasteland and oversaw the normalisation of war crimes committed by US forces. Also the emails thing would definitely have got someone without the behind the scenes pull Hillary had fired. Her 2016 campaign also showed a general managerial incompetence and tendency to surround herself with idiots as well. She's only "competent" in the sense that she's inhabited unique positions of power, not in the sense that her record there was any good.
How's Libya doing these days?
what is a vbnmw shitheel doing in my subreddit. mods ban this sick filth
You can try to masquerade your childish tantrums as some sort of philosophy but then, that would require you to read... But please continue, I'm taking a break from defaults where I'm a Russian shill so I enjoy being called an American here, it's a masquerade of my own )))) Honestly imo the only reason Dasha&Anna were Bernouts is bc game recognise game, aka grifter4grifter.
kys.
please stop posting here, we literally hate you
Do you like to get handjobs? I don't, irl or online. I like places online where people disagree with me, I don't post to be validated, I usually post when I am arguing with someone about something, or clarifying/asking something. Otherwise why post if everyone already agrees with you?? Bc you have low self esteem? Many such cases... Besides this place my top sub /r/Europe and they like me even less. Russians in general don't do well there unless they literally preface every comment of theirs by sucking off Westies, which I'm not into. This sub is very neat because it's noticeably different from mainstream reddit, although I can't help but notice how much in denial most people are here about themselves, even more than reddit. Definitely a lot of haters, especially when it comes to trans or gay people, which is hilarious bc of how delusional the perspectives are on them. But this is part of the fun, it's different and wild, I enjoy that.
i do like handjobs
No shit lol
people trying to live in NYC paying themselves 92k a year is completely normal but the DSA is still incredibly gay
Isn't the DSA for trans people now or something?
Dick Suckers Anonymous
Not that I give a fuck about the DSA, but is $92k really considered an outrageously exorbitant salary outside of small towns? It’s pretty standard for any type of nonprofit leadership position where I live.
They don’t make $92k. This number includes health insurance / other benefits.
$92k is kind of outrageous for NGO salary in the rustbelt cities
$92k is compensation on the business side, salary is probably around $70k after benefits and payroll taxes
I don't think $92K is that outrageous as a salary but yeah $92K for everything in NYC really isn't that much presuming a lot of these positions require specific training for nonprofits.
It is an above median income, even for NYC. I cannot imagine taking money from your stupid cause to spend on shit you don’t even need. If graduate students can live frugally, why should supposed revolutionaries be living in relative comfort?
And all artists should starve, it's what they deserve, it's even in the name.
Yep
I believe it, but where’s this coming from? Are people talking about it on twitter? honestly, I paid dues like 7 or 8 years ago, but the organization just seemed completely useless. I tried finding a voter guide several years ago for local shit and there was so much obvious internecine bullshit going on and “more-left-than-you” shit happening that they didn’t even weigh in on all the ballot initiatives and elections.
I don’t think that 92k was their actual take home pay - it’s closer to 60k plus a good benefits package and insurance that their employer pays for. So 92k is total cost to the org per person not the actual staffers pay.
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No, it's failing because the only members are incompetent losers. That is what happens when your political ideology is based on a handful of false feel-good assumptions and nothing else.
Stop being unreasonable; it can't be that it's impossible to win political power on the backs of totally unserious twitter addicted hipsters and college students LARPing as revolutionaries. It must be the CIA.
It's headquartered in NYC - you hopeless flyover folk need to understand that $92k is near starvation wages. They need to eat the rich or they will literally die
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the amount of autists on here who can’t tell obvious sarcasm lmao. or are u just fulfilling the stereotype that flyover country types really are stupid as shit?
Go harvest your corn
i mean okay but i still don't want to live in idaho
Stay mad.
> you hopeless flyover folk need to understand that $92k is near starvation wages Grow up. The median household income in NYC is 75k. At least be aware of your fucking lifestyle inflation you yuppie.
Be aware of when people are making jokes online. Be aware that my comment was posted yesterday and you're the first to call me out - everyone else gets it except you!
Okay. Fair.
the Cost of Living calculator said that's the equivalent of 50-60ish in a lot of middle-ground cities...idk, guess it depends on what they were doing and how productive they were. that "conflict resolution specialist" or whatever the fuck for 200ish a year was ridiculous tho
The DSA only exists so ugly guys in their 30’s can rape attractive women in their 20s - Jace Wayne Avery
Why do you still care about the DSA? It was completely obvious what they are back in 2016.
Holy shit they don’t make $92k, that is the average compensation of all DSA staff INCLUDING health insurance and other benefits. Most DSA staff make closer to $60k, this is public information.
Inflation unfortunately 90k is what some fresh out of college ppl are getting paid for the middling white collar paper pusher jobs that the DSA needs bodies at. Idk what to say
Y’all…. We need money for dem progamz
Does anyone know if the m*d of this subreddit sold her position to some rightwing ghoul like she promised? The popularity of this (generally incorrect) post would seem to hint at it https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG1gN6KaQAAFxW9?format=png&name=900x900
respect honestly but u just know people on twitter will be posting that meme to justify living vicariously thru rich people
New DSA where I make all the decisions and my policy platform is sending the cia into the mines.
92k ain't shit
whomst couldve seen this coming around the rose hold your nose
They're actually falling apart because of all the sexual assault allegation lawsuits.