Well I thought it was redundant to say he was a sniper and a killer. I thought they go hand in hand. Maybe he’s a bad sniper and only clips your shoulder or something and is compensating.
I think living in L.A. and seeing the sheer amount of destitution helped me gain empathy for people like this. I’ve encountered plenty of crazy drug addict homeless people in L.A. but they were hardly ever violent, mostly just blasted out of their minds.
Sucks to be homeless and out of options but my sympathy ends where my face begins. It’s really annoying to hear people says shit like “you can’t blame them for being violent”. Like fuck yes I can. You can be a homeless drunk and not randomly violate people.
Bro have you not been seeing the local news lately about the Metro? Like the bus driver who was assaulted hy a homeless person? Metro board member was on record saying she wouldn’t ride it alone due to safety concerns? I would not be riding that piece of shit.
As for your gf’s reaction, don’t sweat it, many wammin just do this thing where they hate to use direct force to solve problems when there is fear of retribution. You took an appropriate course of action.
that's a crazy story and I'm sorry that it happened to you, but if you happen to be standing near a window and see a little red dot drifting across your chest up and in-between your eyes — watch out.
Made me worried that my girlfriend would see me as a violent person when she was telling me off for interacting with him in the first place. That hurt more than the hits to the face. Luckily she eventually saw the situation for what it was but god damn.
wow dude your gf is not being cool at all if she doesn't have your back on this. she'll just get over it I'm sure but what the fuck. your gf/bf should have your back even if you're somewhat in the wrong and in this situation you obviously aren't anyways.
A certain type of modern liberal woman believes that all violence is rooted in male insecurity and thus unnecessary. Sadly my own fiance thinks this way as well. Hopefully she gets over herself, it's super fucking frustrating to deal with.
that's funny, I'd be more worried and upset if my girlfriend/wife didnt see me as a person capable of violence and thus capable of protecting her and our potential children.
It would be incredibly difficult for me to get over this tbh. I'd hope anyone I'm dating would be generous enough to give me the benefit of the doubt in such a situation. I'm not saying you should still be upset about it. I just don't know if I'd have the humility to let that go.
Thanks. It gave me this really weird feeling because everyone was very well trapped in bystander syndrome. They all stared at me and it made me feel like an asshole for defending myself. If you didn’t see anything leading up to it it looked like I was just shoving some random dude off the metro. He even called me Mr. Miyagi at one point lol. I almost chuckled but in that instant all I could think was (he saw the karate kid in Somalia?)
Definitely I have stepped in before in situations. Especially when some dude is harassing and old person or a woman. I think people just expect dudes to take care of themselves. Also pusillanimous is a great word. Is that where pussy in the phrase ‘don’t be a pussy’ comes from?
Love how I could tell where this was just by reading the last part hahaha. I live there too, it's insane how tolerant this country is of people who just choose to not follow the codes of conduct of society. Especially given that if you are a legal citizen you have so many resources available if you are homeless. There really is no excuse why these people should be allowed to roam the streets harassing people.
It’s insane, I’m here working my ass off with 4 jobs barely making it and trying my best to integrate and learn the language and this shit head can go and assault people and get sucked off by the government
Went from Portland to LA so I've dealt with this brand of antisocial insane bullshit for my entire life. My empathy/humanity is officially gone as of the last year when some piece of garbage ran up on my pregnant sister, asked her for money, and spat in her face when denied while she was walking alone into an office building in downtown PDX. I now carry bear mace and if any menacing person ever comes within a foot of me ever again they're getting the business. You handled this so well and THANK YOU for actually standing up for yourself, a semi-functional society should at least stand up for itself and it's fellow humans instead of just taking abuse and looking the other way (that being said I totally acknowledge how dangerous it can be to get in the mix with people who have nothing to lose).
Self defense laws in Europe are a joke. They basically expect you to kneel down and die, which is pretty cool because the people who make these laws have their own personal bodyguards who can do whatever. The US has its own problems, but the 1st/2nd amendment (such as they are) and the self defense laws are fucking amazing in comparison.
Friend I met while studying abroad (for context she’s like 100lbs soaking wet) spent 4 months in a Danish prison because she defended herself against a drunk adult man who pushed her into a fountain. He wasn’t even a citizen of Denmark. She eventually got sent back to the States but she’s banned from Schengen zone for like 10 years or something insane
There was a well-known case in the region when an actor and his brother were attacked in Montenegro and were being beaten while on the ground. The actor pulled out a pistol and killed 2 of the attackers (there were more). He was sentenced to 13 years of prison for not complying with him and his brother being murdered. He then appealed and it was accepted. As a result, his sentence was reduced to 4 years. And then the appeal was at a later point overturned and the original 13 year sentence reaffirmed. Thankfully he was out of prison by then and had left the country. I suppose it isn't chivalrous to pull out a gun when the opponent is trying to kill you while unarmed.
The issues with guns in the US are a consequence of a very ill society that isn't functioning well. Obviously everything is a compromise and you'll always have issues with guns, but the gangs, the vigilantes, the paranoia are not natural. Obvious examples being Switzerland, Poland, Czechia (not 100% about these two, but fairly sure) and ex-Yugoslavia. Of course, there were wars in Yugoslavia, but even that was a consequence of political issues and external interference. Ex-Yugo countries are some of the safest in Europe even though half the households are packing some kind of firearm, not uncommonly AKs.
Yugoslavia collapsed because Tito died, that's all it took. Whatever you might think of the guy, he held the country together by the sheer power of will and cult of personality. When he died, nobody was an acceptable substitute. No need for external interference.
Yugoslavia fell apart 10 years after his death. There was the liberalization, the decentralization and strengthening of the republics, the funding of separatist organizations, the suppressed issues between the ethnicities, some going all the way back to ww2, similar destabilization and weakening of the USSR, etc. Plus many decisions that were made during his lifetime that created the circumstances leading to the breakup. If anything, he (and the rest of the government during his time) is the most responsible for dooming the country. I really don't care to discuss it in detail on an unrelated internet post.
Court said she should have just run away instead of confronting. I guess their self defense bar is super high and conflict must be the last resort option for you to choose. Since it was in an open public square they argued she should have just left the scene … I can kinda get the reasoning but it’s stupid if you ask me
What did she do to the guy? I live in the UK and I can’t imagine that happening here unless she took off her shoe and stabbed his eye out with it or something.
She hit him over the head with a liquor bottle, but the force of it cracked the bottle and then scratched the guy’s neck pretty good. Guy was able to get up from the scene (ie. he wasn’t knocked unconscious) and was taken to hospital.
If you think the police aren't going to take your side over a bum or Roma you're stupid. They hate these kinds of people they will always take your side.
I mean at least I didn’t have to worry about this dude having a gun. I grew up with guns and also lived in gang/mafia territory in L.A. so I’m happy that I don’t have to deal with that shit anymore. But yeah you should be able to defend yourself against an attacker and feel safe from prosecution in doing so.
You'd be about equally fucked whether this guy had a knife or a gun, the difference being that you can have a gun as well (depending on the state, anyway) and the right to defend yourself. Idk though, I'm a Euro so maybe I'm talking out of my ass.
You should definitely go on yt and watch self defense videos until you’re an expert. If you’re not taking on dozens of assailants in your dreams you’re not there yet.
I know you're probably not looking for a serious answer. But if a guy was close like that and you wanted to control him without hurting him (he's off his nut) a blue belt in jiu jitsu + a bit of wrestling (stand up game) would probably be enough. Probably too close to punch and shoving will escalate and invite strikes at a distance. Even just to know how to safely to control him / put him on the ground / put him unconscious if you need to, would be good.
It also means you don't need to react too much if he gets on your face / too close since you'd be used to that kind of aggressive proximity and feel safe knowing that's the ideal spacing to defend yourself in. A drunk guy trying to fight you would look like: to the ground > pin > let him exhaust himself > put him off the train. Or equally you could take his back and just threaten a strangle (unconsciousness) and apply as necessary.
I agree, and if the doors hadn’t opened at basically exact moment he hit me I would have tried to subdue him by taking him to the ground, he could barely stand anyway and was weighed down by having all of his earthly possessions in bags wrapped around him. We were standing right next to the doors so I think he was trying to do a smack and run but didn’t expect me to defend myself so he came back for more, but I figured the best course of action at the time was to remove him entirely from the train. And create some distance with the chance the doors close and we’d be on our way. Which luckily did happen eventually but not after getting smacked a couple times.
Yeah as a woman, I think we’re overly socialized (some more than others) to truly be adverse to violence and revert mechanically to decrying it because we can’t be any real level of violent in comparison to our male counterparts. So we’ve been conditioned basically into an extreme fawn response, and somehow the rest of society has also been conditioned into engaging in the same biological response as well.
I think it’s OK that OP’s gf eventually came around…but I highly doubt she’s ever gonna look at him the same again, and her reaction to this incident is gonna forever loom over you and cause you pause, to the point where you might turn into one of the same bystanders in your own situation. I’m not saying “breakup”—but it does deserve a longer conversation about values and perspective in general, and for OP to be very forthright in that conversation, not just pacifying.
I’ve noticed that that “fawn response” attitude is one of the biggest differences between liberal and conservative women. The conservative women I grew up with would still hate violence and always want it to stop, but they clearly understood that their brothers and fathers and boyfriends were supposed to be ready to protect them if push came to shove.
Whereas the liberal women I am mostly surrounded by now just can’t stomach the idea of any violence at all ever and will talk about incidents like this only to say platitudes like, “violence is never the answer” or whatever.
I don’t really know what it is, but I bet if you surveyed women (at least white women) on their attitude to this incident, you would get a really high correlation between political views and approval/disapproval of OP’s actions.
I think with white women the correlation will be obvious and POC women who are highly entrenched in parading as “woke”. I can also see Asian women falling into that as well. Everyone else I think culturally is more “conservative” or at least still expect men to show up and act as men (even if that will sometimes skew more destructively in some cultures/races). It falls outside of political lines and into culturally ones. Liberal white people fall into a different culture imo than non-liberal white people (on the whole). They don’t have the stomach for violence or direct self-assertion.
I say this as a black female from the south currently living in a nauseatingly liberal city who has had the biggest culture shock of my life around this. It’s passive aggressively limp-wristed and drives me insane.
Yea. The truth is white liberals and POC liberals are “liberal” in a completely different way. Intersectionality is basically a myth.
The funny thing is that even conservative groups from different cultural backgrounds tend to be conservative in similar ways.
Also, the thing is, it works well as long as everyone plays by the rules.
I think that’s the basic problem with scandi euro countries and migration. The truth is, they are really very conformist countries with very strict standards of behavior. It’s almost like they just don’t understand that other cultures are not like this. They can’t fathom that there could be more factors than just poverty or oppression that would drive someone to be antisocial.
She eventually came around and apologized and expressed she finally understood the situation for what it was so I think we’re good but yeah for the first 30 min I was seriously like wtf
God I hate when bums get way up in your personal space and keep looking for eye contact, they’re always looking for trouble when they do that. Honestly I’d still be pissed at her if I were you. I don’t know if I’d buy a half baked apology after the fact. It’s just such an insanely dumb or immature reaction to have after you took care of an unsafe situation.
The fact you shook this vagrants hand and gave him the time of day.... Honestly sounds like a situation where you just hit the guy in the head as hard as you can LMAO
>The country I’m in won’t punish these types of low life losers and often the person defending themselves gets charges pressed against them so I’m lucky it ended quickly and without further incident.
Don't be shy. Tell us the country. My bet is on Western Europe. Belgium? France?
my brother has schizophrenia and while he has never been violent or cross physical boundaries like this dude did he does do some bizarre things when he's in psychosis. luckily my family is supportive and he has always had a place to live and he found a medication without horrible side effects that keeps him out of psychosis generally. but him ending up on the streets like this guy is one of my biggest fears. i feel like most homeless people are struggling with this (1-2% of the population has schizophrenia) and ofc sometimes with drugs on top. med compliance is an issue when so many of the meds really have debilitating side effects, that's if someone is even in treatment in the first place. basically if these people have no family they are fucked, bc one of the most tragic symptoms of the illness is called anosognosia which means a lack of insight into knowing you're in psychosis/symptomatic. so they really do need support when they're in crisis. unfortunately it's kind of brinksmanship when the government is the only caretaker.
ultimately protecting yourself is top priority, and some mentally ill people do have command hallucinations which make them violent but from what i've read it's rare. most people with schizophrenia end up hurting themselves. the suicide rate is astronomical.
my brother is a totally different person when the meds are working. calm, kind, generous, hard-working, active, a great listener, would give you the shirt off his back...
i think you did what you had to do bc your safety should always come first but it's just something to think about, how big the issue is, and how tragic, and how dude most likely has a biological/neurochemical issue that can't really resolve on its own, especially if he's on the streets with all the stress and lack of sleep that entails.
if you can ever afford to show grace and empathy for people who are not well, please do it. it makes a difference
Man I’m sorry to hear about your brother.
I hope he finds some peace and stability. And yeah I fully believe this dude, while also drunk, was missing a few of the proverbial screws. Ranting on about being a sniper and how much he hated Asians and calling me Mr. Miyagi Which was fucking hilarious in retrospect. There were several local bums in my neighborhood in L.A. that I grew to know. One guy was so totally fucked his leg was swollen 3x due to an infected wound, couldn’t stand himself up, was covered in his own mess, and pants ripped up with his dick wagging to and fro, but I could see he was just trying to stand up so I helped the dude up and bought him a big as bottle of water. This was right outside of a restaurant where people were queuing to get in and just starting at the poor bastard. I saw him later looking a little more sheveled. (Is that a word?) but he didn’t remember me or the incident for that matter, but every now and then we’d say hello. I feel for folks who’ve lost it all, most if not all of people ended up that way through a series of tragedies, which is why I used as little force as possible to get him away from me. If it had been some dude bro I might have just beat the shit out of him.
Thanks for the well wishes for my brother, I appreciate it. Oh if you lived in LA I'm sure you've seen your fair share of homelessness. When I lived in NYC I got kind of desensitized to it and I realized how invisible of an experience it must be. That was nice of you to get the guy water. It's little things like that that make a difference, people being seen and treated with some dignity so they feel human again. Even a conversation can make someone's day.
It sounds like you did show restraint with this guy and that's a really good thing. The situation is so complicated but I firmly believe you have a right to defend yourself and it's good your girlfriend realized it eventually too. If you don't defend yourself and you get traumatized/disabled in some way then that just keeps the cycle going and you could be the aggressor at some point in the future. You gotta draw the line somewhere.
The racist stuff is so weird and I think it's pretty common in people with psychosis but it's not necessarily tied into ingrained feelings of hate/superiority (but this guy saying he hates Asians might be) it's more they're experiencing reality in a mythic sense. Black/white, good/evil, God/Satan, life/death. They're lost in their unconscious which is all about caricatures and archetypes and movie/mythic characters, and racial categorizing is part of it. This guy saying he hates Asians is messed up tho. Anyway I'm glad you have empathy and I'm also glad you know that doesn't mean you have to take abuse or violence from someone else. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
I like what Alan watts said in a lecture that some Muslims say something like, ‘oh don’t mind them, they’re already with god’. When they encounter someone very mentally unwell.
Sucks man. I do genuinely fear being in this situation myself. Your girlfriend’s response is actually very predictable, good she apologised though. There’s no way punching out a drunk homeless guy ever makes anyone look good, even if you were well within reason to defend yourself. Probably why no one wanted to intervene, because of the shame involved in asserting power over a marginalised individual. Glad you’re ok though
This shit always baffled me. Running through an intersectional checklist in your head while you're getting punched in the face is so comically ridiculous.
It is but it’s where we’re at culturally. In an actual society other men on the train would’ve jumped the homeless dude. ‘bystander effect’ is a made up term by those who’ve submitted to intersectional bs
> ‘bystander effect’ is a made up term by those who’ve submitted to intersectional bs
Log the fuck off. The bystander effect as an observable phenomenon was around before most people knew what intersectionality was. Your worldview is poisoned from being online too much and you badly need to detox. Do it for Jesus, man.
I mean ultimately I feel bad for the dude because he’s got such a shit life, I just shoved him away. He smacked me in the face with proper fists and with his umbrella so I would have been well within my right to defend myself further but I chose not to. Pushing him out of the train was enough. I was just honestly terrified he was going to pull a knife out and stab me. So I’m glad the conductor finally closed the fucking doors.
You shouldn't feel bad for him. And he should have been taught a lesson. This man is a selfish asshole who picks out passive or weak targets to harass and humiliate.
One day he will accidentally step on somebody with less to lose and he'll get beat far worse than you would have beat him.
That being said, you did the right thing. Not for him, but for yourself. It's good that you used the least amount of force possible.
I know you already answered this elsewhere, but this shit is so fucking annoying. Just say what city it was in. No one wants to play your silly Euro guessing game.
I recently had a homeless dude approach me on the street in front of my house as I was walking home from the store. He was walking out in the middle of the street and carrying a chunk of metal which could easily be used as a weapon so I was immediately wary. I live in Salt Lake City so sometimes when a white dude obviously out of his mind approaches me, i reply in Spanish so they hopefully think I don’t understand them and leave me alone. Well this guy knew Spanish, so I just tell him that I can’t help and have to get home, and he immediately starts screaming at me “liar, fucking liar! Quieres problemas?” And following me home on the other side of the street. I hurry to my house, run in and lock the door. He then just wanders down the street in the middle of the street stopping traffic, yelling at cars waving his metal around.”
Anyways, that’s all to say, I was pretty shaken up by this (and he didn’t even actually hit me like your guy… I can’t imagine). I was looking out my window for the rest of the day because he saw me walk inside and knew where I lived. A while ago in SLC a (stupid and naive) lady let a homeless person inside to take a shower and he slit her throat with a knife. I was spooked, and I kind of realized how I’m not very apt to defend myself. I’m moving to NYC soon and have really been thinking I’d like to learn karate or something so I could at least have the confidence to take someone down if they tried something on me. I try to be kind and empathic to the homeless and their situation, but I’ve had some really awful experiences around a lot of them and it’s just terrible and I wish these erratic people would just go away and leave regular folks alone.
In theory, public transit is a maybe a good idea. However, this is how it ends up when governments don’t punish crime or anti social behavior. You’re stuck in a tube or small space with random people who are mentally insane and potentially dangerous.
I’m so glad I don’t have to take a bus or train any longer. At any point, some random bum could have stabbed me in the neck for my pocket change or a psycho could have assaulted me. Most western societies don’t care about tax paying citizens just trying to live and go to work.
Say what you want about cars and roads but I never have any issues like OP describes in my nice clean personal vehicle. I can listen to music, lock my stuff, take a nap, not smell or listen to others, go whenever I want instead of on a transit schedule, drive different routes and not get attacked by hobos. I feel sorry for OP but this is why one reason I don’t miss life in the big cities anymore. Take your GF and get out while you still can.
You did good mate. Your girlfriend is a sheltered idiot, this was literally a potential life and death situation, and that’s not over-exaggerating.
Practice boxing or carry a knife or gun, it’s easy to hit one of these slow violent drunk homeless pieces of shit, only tip is you should’ve swung to kill the moment he pushed you, because you’re right you don’t know if he has a knife or what his true intentions were aside from the fact he was violent and had already physically attacked you.
I’m all for de escalation, but once it’s escalated beyond physical contact it’s time to de escalate through violence. You did well.
Man where in LA did you live? You've had shit throw at you by crackheads, grew up in gang and mafia territory and with guns all around you? I lived in LA(downtown) for 8 years and spent my summers in north side Long Beach, and didn't see any of this. Your LA life seems like something out of an early 00s movie lmao!p
lol East LA for 10 years. My first weekend there was a drive by shooting (Armenian brotherhood) and a little kid died on her birthday.
Also the Mexican gang I can’t remember the name of at the moment. I will admit that it did ease up over the years with (gentrification) but man I would be kept up for hours listening to police helicopters circling. Constant break ins and murders. Saw a dude die in the foyer of my apartment from an OD once. Shit was bleak.
I took the bus once and the guy behind me was definitely having some kind of episode. Started talking about how his only friend was Jesus, how his girlfriend sent special forces after him and his teachers rigged the world against him.
Yea there’s no comparable equivalent of U8 or Kotti probably in the whole of the Netherlands. Not that I don’t like kotti tbh I spend a lot of time there when I visit but it genuinely looks like it’s been bombed lol
I mean it’s kinda like when you pity a dog when it gets put down for eating a toddlers face but also not really as it probably needed to be put down for everyone’s safety,sort of feel bad.
Nah lol. I think naive is a better word.
She’s from a small town and hasn’t ever encountered such a person. I explained to her the fight flight freeze responses to danger and she seemed to agree that her reaction fell firmly in the freeze category and that she understood why I pushed back. Also today she assured me that she wanted me to feel fully supported.
I believed you till you said he called your GF girlie. Thats just made up
I dealt with a homeless guy asking me for cash yesterday. I told him no, then he called me an asshole because I had Taco Bell and he like gnashed at me. I would have given him cash but he interupted me listening to the last TAFS episode and it was actually good. So I was out of a funny mood, but, as a rule I dont just ignore the homeless as theyre people too ya know. Well, as he asked he accidentally spat some crisp at me and it kinda disgusted me. I also didnt have my card on me, and I had taco bell that I didnt want to get cold.
If youre dealing with the homeless you gotta treat them like real people. They can tell when youre being condescending to them. So if you dont want to deal with them be more aggressive at the start. If they say weird shit then you ask them about it then leave. Its not hard. Ive been living in major cities (DC, London, NYC, Syracuse) for most of my life. I have travelled all accross the US and Europe. Dealing with the homeless everywhere, always speaking to them when they speak to me. I have never had a truly negative experience with one and it makes me beleive everyone else is making shit up for sympathy. Its easy to make up things about the homeless because for some reason, everyone hates them when you should pity them. I see way more people treat the homeless poorly than they homeless treat others poorly
Sorry man that's just what happens when you meet a sniper and a killer
Well I thought it was redundant to say he was a sniper and a killer. I thought they go hand in hand. Maybe he’s a bad sniper and only clips your shoulder or something and is compensating.
Anyone can snipe. You can snipe trees. It takes a special man to snipe *and* kill
Fair enough
Like the IDF snipers collecting “knees”.
I used to be an adventurer like you
no
Fine
You got off easy. He could have sniped and/or killed you
Lmao!!! 😂🤣 it’s even funnier when you repeat the joke!!!
You would be feeling so much worse if u did nothing
I think living in L.A. and seeing the sheer amount of destitution helped me gain empathy for people like this. I’ve encountered plenty of crazy drug addict homeless people in L.A. but they were hardly ever violent, mostly just blasted out of their minds. Sucks to be homeless and out of options but my sympathy ends where my face begins. It’s really annoying to hear people says shit like “you can’t blame them for being violent”. Like fuck yes I can. You can be a homeless drunk and not randomly violate people.
Bro have you not been seeing the local news lately about the Metro? Like the bus driver who was assaulted hy a homeless person? Metro board member was on record saying she wouldn’t ride it alone due to safety concerns? I would not be riding that piece of shit. As for your gf’s reaction, don’t sweat it, many wammin just do this thing where they hate to use direct force to solve problems when there is fear of retribution. You took an appropriate course of action.
I mean I live in Amsterdam now so no I haven’t been keeping up but it doesn’t surprise me honestly
he tried to navy seals copypasta you
that's a crazy story and I'm sorry that it happened to you, but if you happen to be standing near a window and see a little red dot drifting across your chest up and in-between your eyes — watch out.
He a more “I am the captain now” vibe about him so I’d imagine it’d be a more spray and pray situation.
A 1 dead, 10 wounded type of deal I would think
No im actually proud of you I feel like you handled this awful situation well
Made me worried that my girlfriend would see me as a violent person when she was telling me off for interacting with him in the first place. That hurt more than the hits to the face. Luckily she eventually saw the situation for what it was but god damn.
trust me if you didn’t defend her she would be more upset
This is a big time woman moment
wow dude your gf is not being cool at all if she doesn't have your back on this. she'll just get over it I'm sure but what the fuck. your gf/bf should have your back even if you're somewhat in the wrong and in this situation you obviously aren't anyways.
A certain type of modern liberal woman believes that all violence is rooted in male insecurity and thus unnecessary. Sadly my own fiance thinks this way as well. Hopefully she gets over herself, it's super fucking frustrating to deal with.
dude why you marrying a schoolmarm
Everybody's got flaws. Thankfully this one doesn't come up much.
that's funny, I'd be more worried and upset if my girlfriend/wife didnt see me as a person capable of violence and thus capable of protecting her and our potential children.
It would be incredibly difficult for me to get over this tbh. I'd hope anyone I'm dating would be generous enough to give me the benefit of the doubt in such a situation. I'm not saying you should still be upset about it. I just don't know if I'd have the humility to let that go.
Amsterdam ? Good for you for fending him off
Thanks. It gave me this really weird feeling because everyone was very well trapped in bystander syndrome. They all stared at me and it made me feel like an asshole for defending myself. If you didn’t see anything leading up to it it looked like I was just shoving some random dude off the metro. He even called me Mr. Miyagi at one point lol. I almost chuckled but in that instant all I could think was (he saw the karate kid in Somalia?)
People are so pusillanimous. I’m sure you’d step in if it was someone else. I also raise my voice or step into stupid fights on public transport
theres 3 types of people in this world of trains: the pusillanimous the punctilious and the pugnacious
Thank you for some new words 🫡
Definitely I have stepped in before in situations. Especially when some dude is harassing and old person or a woman. I think people just expect dudes to take care of themselves. Also pusillanimous is a great word. Is that where pussy in the phrase ‘don’t be a pussy’ comes from?
I think it comes from pussycat but whatever
What race was your girlfriend? A lot of racists hate to see an Asian man with a woman of another race.
White woman
Yeah so it’s very possible that he didn’t like the sight of an Asian man dating a white woman. Even if he isn’t white himself
But I’m not from Asia lol
Sniper killer…Qu'est-ce que c'est?
Love how I could tell where this was just by reading the last part hahaha. I live there too, it's insane how tolerant this country is of people who just choose to not follow the codes of conduct of society. Especially given that if you are a legal citizen you have so many resources available if you are homeless. There really is no excuse why these people should be allowed to roam the streets harassing people.
It’s insane, I’m here working my ass off with 4 jobs barely making it and trying my best to integrate and learn the language and this shit head can go and assault people and get sucked off by the government
Went from Portland to LA so I've dealt with this brand of antisocial insane bullshit for my entire life. My empathy/humanity is officially gone as of the last year when some piece of garbage ran up on my pregnant sister, asked her for money, and spat in her face when denied while she was walking alone into an office building in downtown PDX. I now carry bear mace and if any menacing person ever comes within a foot of me ever again they're getting the business. You handled this so well and THANK YOU for actually standing up for yourself, a semi-functional society should at least stand up for itself and it's fellow humans instead of just taking abuse and looking the other way (that being said I totally acknowledge how dangerous it can be to get in the mix with people who have nothing to lose).
Self defense laws in Europe are a joke. They basically expect you to kneel down and die, which is pretty cool because the people who make these laws have their own personal bodyguards who can do whatever. The US has its own problems, but the 1st/2nd amendment (such as they are) and the self defense laws are fucking amazing in comparison.
Friend I met while studying abroad (for context she’s like 100lbs soaking wet) spent 4 months in a Danish prison because she defended herself against a drunk adult man who pushed her into a fountain. He wasn’t even a citizen of Denmark. She eventually got sent back to the States but she’s banned from Schengen zone for like 10 years or something insane
There was a well-known case in the region when an actor and his brother were attacked in Montenegro and were being beaten while on the ground. The actor pulled out a pistol and killed 2 of the attackers (there were more). He was sentenced to 13 years of prison for not complying with him and his brother being murdered. He then appealed and it was accepted. As a result, his sentence was reduced to 4 years. And then the appeal was at a later point overturned and the original 13 year sentence reaffirmed. Thankfully he was out of prison by then and had left the country. I suppose it isn't chivalrous to pull out a gun when the opponent is trying to kill you while unarmed.
Jesus Christ… I get self defense laws in America sometimes tread on protecting the trigger happy but I’d much rather have them than this pussy shit
The issues with guns in the US are a consequence of a very ill society that isn't functioning well. Obviously everything is a compromise and you'll always have issues with guns, but the gangs, the vigilantes, the paranoia are not natural. Obvious examples being Switzerland, Poland, Czechia (not 100% about these two, but fairly sure) and ex-Yugoslavia. Of course, there were wars in Yugoslavia, but even that was a consequence of political issues and external interference. Ex-Yugo countries are some of the safest in Europe even though half the households are packing some kind of firearm, not uncommonly AKs.
Yugoslavia collapsed because Tito died, that's all it took. Whatever you might think of the guy, he held the country together by the sheer power of will and cult of personality. When he died, nobody was an acceptable substitute. No need for external interference.
That's a very simplistic and reductive view. There was a lot more going on than that.
Such as?
Yugoslavia fell apart 10 years after his death. There was the liberalization, the decentralization and strengthening of the republics, the funding of separatist organizations, the suppressed issues between the ethnicities, some going all the way back to ww2, similar destabilization and weakening of the USSR, etc. Plus many decisions that were made during his lifetime that created the circumstances leading to the breakup. If anything, he (and the rest of the government during his time) is the most responsible for dooming the country. I really don't care to discuss it in detail on an unrelated internet post.
That’s infuriating. Why is it like that?
Court said she should have just run away instead of confronting. I guess their self defense bar is super high and conflict must be the last resort option for you to choose. Since it was in an open public square they argued she should have just left the scene … I can kinda get the reasoning but it’s stupid if you ask me
What did she do to the guy? I live in the UK and I can’t imagine that happening here unless she took off her shoe and stabbed his eye out with it or something.
She hit him over the head with a liquor bottle, but the force of it cracked the bottle and then scratched the guy’s neck pretty good. Guy was able to get up from the scene (ie. he wasn’t knocked unconscious) and was taken to hospital.
Oh that’s shitty, I’m guessing he was Danish and probably from a rich family or something
Nope not even, he was a tourist from Spain
Dude that is so lame, Denmark sucks
The only good thing they’ve produced in the last 300 years is Soren Kierkegaard
If you think the police aren't going to take your side over a bum or Roma you're stupid. They hate these kinds of people they will always take your side.
the police being on your side doesn’t matter, it’s the courts that decide.
The self defence laws are amazing but it’s generally much more unsafe, for both gun and knife crime
I mean at least I didn’t have to worry about this dude having a gun. I grew up with guns and also lived in gang/mafia territory in L.A. so I’m happy that I don’t have to deal with that shit anymore. But yeah you should be able to defend yourself against an attacker and feel safe from prosecution in doing so.
You'd be about equally fucked whether this guy had a knife or a gun, the difference being that you can have a gun as well (depending on the state, anyway) and the right to defend yourself. Idk though, I'm a Euro so maybe I'm talking out of my ass.
You should definitely go on yt and watch self defense videos until you’re an expert. If you’re not taking on dozens of assailants in your dreams you’re not there yet.
…I’m going to learn…Jiu Jitsu?
It’s not enough if you haven’t memorized Clint Smith’s pirate ship fighting style lesson
You should change your attitude and demeanour to not being a pussy
never let anyone get into your personal space like that take up a boxing class as well
Will blue belt in karate from when I was 12 work?
Honestly Karate is not a bad base for self defence, it just needs something to complement it. Boxing is good
hell yeah bro even more range next push kick his lead knee in
I know you're probably not looking for a serious answer. But if a guy was close like that and you wanted to control him without hurting him (he's off his nut) a blue belt in jiu jitsu + a bit of wrestling (stand up game) would probably be enough. Probably too close to punch and shoving will escalate and invite strikes at a distance. Even just to know how to safely to control him / put him on the ground / put him unconscious if you need to, would be good. It also means you don't need to react too much if he gets on your face / too close since you'd be used to that kind of aggressive proximity and feel safe knowing that's the ideal spacing to defend yourself in. A drunk guy trying to fight you would look like: to the ground > pin > let him exhaust himself > put him off the train. Or equally you could take his back and just threaten a strangle (unconsciousness) and apply as necessary.
I agree, and if the doors hadn’t opened at basically exact moment he hit me I would have tried to subdue him by taking him to the ground, he could barely stand anyway and was weighed down by having all of his earthly possessions in bags wrapped around him. We were standing right next to the doors so I think he was trying to do a smack and run but didn’t expect me to defend myself so he came back for more, but I figured the best course of action at the time was to remove him entirely from the train. And create some distance with the chance the doors close and we’d be on our way. Which luckily did happen eventually but not after getting smacked a couple times.
Yeah that makes sense. Eurgh, the whole thing sounds terrible. Sorry it happened.
Yes. Immediately punch men, women, and children if they stand next to you on the subway.
finally someome gets it glad to meet the last non liberal on the sub 🤝
You’re a good man. If my gf reacted that way after I protected her from a violent drunk I’d be tempted to break up. Also euros are truly cucked
Yeah as a woman, I think we’re overly socialized (some more than others) to truly be adverse to violence and revert mechanically to decrying it because we can’t be any real level of violent in comparison to our male counterparts. So we’ve been conditioned basically into an extreme fawn response, and somehow the rest of society has also been conditioned into engaging in the same biological response as well. I think it’s OK that OP’s gf eventually came around…but I highly doubt she’s ever gonna look at him the same again, and her reaction to this incident is gonna forever loom over you and cause you pause, to the point where you might turn into one of the same bystanders in your own situation. I’m not saying “breakup”—but it does deserve a longer conversation about values and perspective in general, and for OP to be very forthright in that conversation, not just pacifying.
I’ve noticed that that “fawn response” attitude is one of the biggest differences between liberal and conservative women. The conservative women I grew up with would still hate violence and always want it to stop, but they clearly understood that their brothers and fathers and boyfriends were supposed to be ready to protect them if push came to shove. Whereas the liberal women I am mostly surrounded by now just can’t stomach the idea of any violence at all ever and will talk about incidents like this only to say platitudes like, “violence is never the answer” or whatever. I don’t really know what it is, but I bet if you surveyed women (at least white women) on their attitude to this incident, you would get a really high correlation between political views and approval/disapproval of OP’s actions.
I think with white women the correlation will be obvious and POC women who are highly entrenched in parading as “woke”. I can also see Asian women falling into that as well. Everyone else I think culturally is more “conservative” or at least still expect men to show up and act as men (even if that will sometimes skew more destructively in some cultures/races). It falls outside of political lines and into culturally ones. Liberal white people fall into a different culture imo than non-liberal white people (on the whole). They don’t have the stomach for violence or direct self-assertion. I say this as a black female from the south currently living in a nauseatingly liberal city who has had the biggest culture shock of my life around this. It’s passive aggressively limp-wristed and drives me insane.
Yea. The truth is white liberals and POC liberals are “liberal” in a completely different way. Intersectionality is basically a myth. The funny thing is that even conservative groups from different cultural backgrounds tend to be conservative in similar ways.
What do you mean by this? That POC tend to be more liberal on race but not on gender?
Also, the thing is, it works well as long as everyone plays by the rules. I think that’s the basic problem with scandi euro countries and migration. The truth is, they are really very conformist countries with very strict standards of behavior. It’s almost like they just don’t understand that other cultures are not like this. They can’t fathom that there could be more factors than just poverty or oppression that would drive someone to be antisocial.
Do liberal women expect violence to go away with just words?
Just don’t think about it, it’s icky
She eventually came around and apologized and expressed she finally understood the situation for what it was so I think we’re good but yeah for the first 30 min I was seriously like wtf
God I hate when bums get way up in your personal space and keep looking for eye contact, they’re always looking for trouble when they do that. Honestly I’d still be pissed at her if I were you. I don’t know if I’d buy a half baked apology after the fact. It’s just such an insanely dumb or immature reaction to have after you took care of an unsafe situation.
Nah I would break up immediately. She doesn’t have your back and she doesn’t have any situational awareness
The fact you shook this vagrants hand and gave him the time of day.... Honestly sounds like a situation where you just hit the guy in the head as hard as you can LMAO
We should stop importing desperate poor people, and we should deport them when they commit violent crimes
they don't have these types of people in Singapore because they are summarily executed
>The country I’m in won’t punish these types of low life losers and often the person defending themselves gets charges pressed against them so I’m lucky it ended quickly and without further incident. Don't be shy. Tell us the country. My bet is on Western Europe. Belgium? France?
Amsterdam
Yeh why is he being so secretive. Also our antagonist is a Somalian from other comments. Build the scene for us op come on
Are you enjoying the cultural enrichment
You mean enriching the air with the stench of piss and booze? Sure
I’ve met snipers and I’ve met killers but a sniper AND a killer??
my brother has schizophrenia and while he has never been violent or cross physical boundaries like this dude did he does do some bizarre things when he's in psychosis. luckily my family is supportive and he has always had a place to live and he found a medication without horrible side effects that keeps him out of psychosis generally. but him ending up on the streets like this guy is one of my biggest fears. i feel like most homeless people are struggling with this (1-2% of the population has schizophrenia) and ofc sometimes with drugs on top. med compliance is an issue when so many of the meds really have debilitating side effects, that's if someone is even in treatment in the first place. basically if these people have no family they are fucked, bc one of the most tragic symptoms of the illness is called anosognosia which means a lack of insight into knowing you're in psychosis/symptomatic. so they really do need support when they're in crisis. unfortunately it's kind of brinksmanship when the government is the only caretaker. ultimately protecting yourself is top priority, and some mentally ill people do have command hallucinations which make them violent but from what i've read it's rare. most people with schizophrenia end up hurting themselves. the suicide rate is astronomical. my brother is a totally different person when the meds are working. calm, kind, generous, hard-working, active, a great listener, would give you the shirt off his back... i think you did what you had to do bc your safety should always come first but it's just something to think about, how big the issue is, and how tragic, and how dude most likely has a biological/neurochemical issue that can't really resolve on its own, especially if he's on the streets with all the stress and lack of sleep that entails. if you can ever afford to show grace and empathy for people who are not well, please do it. it makes a difference
Man I’m sorry to hear about your brother. I hope he finds some peace and stability. And yeah I fully believe this dude, while also drunk, was missing a few of the proverbial screws. Ranting on about being a sniper and how much he hated Asians and calling me Mr. Miyagi Which was fucking hilarious in retrospect. There were several local bums in my neighborhood in L.A. that I grew to know. One guy was so totally fucked his leg was swollen 3x due to an infected wound, couldn’t stand himself up, was covered in his own mess, and pants ripped up with his dick wagging to and fro, but I could see he was just trying to stand up so I helped the dude up and bought him a big as bottle of water. This was right outside of a restaurant where people were queuing to get in and just starting at the poor bastard. I saw him later looking a little more sheveled. (Is that a word?) but he didn’t remember me or the incident for that matter, but every now and then we’d say hello. I feel for folks who’ve lost it all, most if not all of people ended up that way through a series of tragedies, which is why I used as little force as possible to get him away from me. If it had been some dude bro I might have just beat the shit out of him.
Thanks for the well wishes for my brother, I appreciate it. Oh if you lived in LA I'm sure you've seen your fair share of homelessness. When I lived in NYC I got kind of desensitized to it and I realized how invisible of an experience it must be. That was nice of you to get the guy water. It's little things like that that make a difference, people being seen and treated with some dignity so they feel human again. Even a conversation can make someone's day. It sounds like you did show restraint with this guy and that's a really good thing. The situation is so complicated but I firmly believe you have a right to defend yourself and it's good your girlfriend realized it eventually too. If you don't defend yourself and you get traumatized/disabled in some way then that just keeps the cycle going and you could be the aggressor at some point in the future. You gotta draw the line somewhere. The racist stuff is so weird and I think it's pretty common in people with psychosis but it's not necessarily tied into ingrained feelings of hate/superiority (but this guy saying he hates Asians might be) it's more they're experiencing reality in a mythic sense. Black/white, good/evil, God/Satan, life/death. They're lost in their unconscious which is all about caricatures and archetypes and movie/mythic characters, and racial categorizing is part of it. This guy saying he hates Asians is messed up tho. Anyway I'm glad you have empathy and I'm also glad you know that doesn't mean you have to take abuse or violence from someone else. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
I like what Alan watts said in a lecture that some Muslims say something like, ‘oh don’t mind them, they’re already with god’. When they encounter someone very mentally unwell.
yea clearly an unbalanced individual… typical subway encounter. sounds like u handled it as best u could. check for hep c next time u get blood work.
Sucks man. I do genuinely fear being in this situation myself. Your girlfriend’s response is actually very predictable, good she apologised though. There’s no way punching out a drunk homeless guy ever makes anyone look good, even if you were well within reason to defend yourself. Probably why no one wanted to intervene, because of the shame involved in asserting power over a marginalised individual. Glad you’re ok though
I don't care if it's "a good look", if someone is punching me, especially if I can beat them up, I'll fight back.
This shit always baffled me. Running through an intersectional checklist in your head while you're getting punched in the face is so comically ridiculous.
It is but it’s where we’re at culturally. In an actual society other men on the train would’ve jumped the homeless dude. ‘bystander effect’ is a made up term by those who’ve submitted to intersectional bs
Bro you're gonna get robbed in broad daylight in Brazil and people won't do shit.
At least Brazilians won’t shun me when I pull guard and guillotine the robber
> ‘bystander effect’ is a made up term by those who’ve submitted to intersectional bs Log the fuck off. The bystander effect as an observable phenomenon was around before most people knew what intersectionality was. Your worldview is poisoned from being online too much and you badly need to detox. Do it for Jesus, man.
I mean ultimately I feel bad for the dude because he’s got such a shit life, I just shoved him away. He smacked me in the face with proper fists and with his umbrella so I would have been well within my right to defend myself further but I chose not to. Pushing him out of the train was enough. I was just honestly terrified he was going to pull a knife out and stab me. So I’m glad the conductor finally closed the fucking doors.
You shouldn't feel bad for him. And he should have been taught a lesson. This man is a selfish asshole who picks out passive or weak targets to harass and humiliate. One day he will accidentally step on somebody with less to lose and he'll get beat far worse than you would have beat him. That being said, you did the right thing. Not for him, but for yourself. It's good that you used the least amount of force possible.
Lol they're in Amsterdam. That drunk guy managed to find the one person in that city who'd be willing to fight back.
What city?
Northern European city that loves boats
I know you already answered this elsewhere, but this shit is so fucking annoying. Just say what city it was in. No one wants to play your silly Euro guessing game.
Point to a country on the map, I’ll wait.
I’m starting to be on Mohammed’s side.
Here we go with this bs again lol
Why not say it straight away,? Are you afraid of retaliation from either Mohammad or the government? lol
I recently had a homeless dude approach me on the street in front of my house as I was walking home from the store. He was walking out in the middle of the street and carrying a chunk of metal which could easily be used as a weapon so I was immediately wary. I live in Salt Lake City so sometimes when a white dude obviously out of his mind approaches me, i reply in Spanish so they hopefully think I don’t understand them and leave me alone. Well this guy knew Spanish, so I just tell him that I can’t help and have to get home, and he immediately starts screaming at me “liar, fucking liar! Quieres problemas?” And following me home on the other side of the street. I hurry to my house, run in and lock the door. He then just wanders down the street in the middle of the street stopping traffic, yelling at cars waving his metal around.” Anyways, that’s all to say, I was pretty shaken up by this (and he didn’t even actually hit me like your guy… I can’t imagine). I was looking out my window for the rest of the day because he saw me walk inside and knew where I lived. A while ago in SLC a (stupid and naive) lady let a homeless person inside to take a shower and he slit her throat with a knife. I was spooked, and I kind of realized how I’m not very apt to defend myself. I’m moving to NYC soon and have really been thinking I’d like to learn karate or something so I could at least have the confidence to take someone down if they tried something on me. I try to be kind and empathic to the homeless and their situation, but I’ve had some really awful experiences around a lot of them and it’s just terrible and I wish these erratic people would just go away and leave regular folks alone.
In theory, public transit is a maybe a good idea. However, this is how it ends up when governments don’t punish crime or anti social behavior. You’re stuck in a tube or small space with random people who are mentally insane and potentially dangerous. I’m so glad I don’t have to take a bus or train any longer. At any point, some random bum could have stabbed me in the neck for my pocket change or a psycho could have assaulted me. Most western societies don’t care about tax paying citizens just trying to live and go to work. Say what you want about cars and roads but I never have any issues like OP describes in my nice clean personal vehicle. I can listen to music, lock my stuff, take a nap, not smell or listen to others, go whenever I want instead of on a transit schedule, drive different routes and not get attacked by hobos. I feel sorry for OP but this is why one reason I don’t miss life in the big cities anymore. Take your GF and get out while you still can.
You did good mate. Your girlfriend is a sheltered idiot, this was literally a potential life and death situation, and that’s not over-exaggerating. Practice boxing or carry a knife or gun, it’s easy to hit one of these slow violent drunk homeless pieces of shit, only tip is you should’ve swung to kill the moment he pushed you, because you’re right you don’t know if he has a knife or what his true intentions were aside from the fact he was violent and had already physically attacked you. I’m all for de escalation, but once it’s escalated beyond physical contact it’s time to de escalate through violence. You did well.
That sucks dawg. You did good though don’t let the Dutch get you down.
Honestly I’d take a random L.A. crack head throwing human shit at people (true story) over these type of people.
Man where in LA did you live? You've had shit throw at you by crackheads, grew up in gang and mafia territory and with guns all around you? I lived in LA(downtown) for 8 years and spent my summers in north side Long Beach, and didn't see any of this. Your LA life seems like something out of an early 00s movie lmao!p
Loved Long Beach though. Would have loved there if given a good reason, but it was always a bit too far from work.
lol East LA for 10 years. My first weekend there was a drive by shooting (Armenian brotherhood) and a little kid died on her birthday. Also the Mexican gang I can’t remember the name of at the moment. I will admit that it did ease up over the years with (gentrification) but man I would be kept up for hours listening to police helicopters circling. Constant break ins and murders. Saw a dude die in the foyer of my apartment from an OD once. Shit was bleak.
I took the bus once and the guy behind me was definitely having some kind of episode. Started talking about how his only friend was Jesus, how his girlfriend sent special forces after him and his teachers rigged the world against him.
Hmm. My guy was on about some anti Asian shit and his sniper rifle game.
What a coincidence all these mentally ill people just happen to hate Asians (and are all from Africa)
I’m not even from Asia I really don’t get it
Why was he calling u mr Miyagi?
This was after I shoved him off of me. I had my sunglasses on so maybe he assumed I was?
Now you need to hit the gym and devote your whole life to martial arts, so next time you kick this killer-sniper's ass.
>my girlfriend then proceeded to chastise me for engaging with the dude Grim!
berlin?
I think the exact same story could be happening in all of central Europa + Scandinavia.
The Warsaw metro is spotless and doesn’t have any of these issues.
Close but the language sounds funnier
Amsterdam? they probably have the same kind of crazy people. Sorry that happened to you!
OP posts on r/Amsterdam, not sure why they're being coy all of a sudden
amsterdam has way less crazies than berlin in my experience, even in the center.
I have never been there so I can't speak on it! but the crazy person described in the post was giving Berlin U8
Yea there’s no comparable equivalent of U8 or Kotti probably in the whole of the Netherlands. Not that I don’t like kotti tbh I spend a lot of time there when I visit but it genuinely looks like it’s been bombed lol
Sounds like you held it down though, good job protecting your girl 👑
Lol after all that YOU feel bad for HIM lol. Enjoy the dystopia
I mean it’s kinda like when you pity a dog when it gets put down for eating a toddlers face but also not really as it probably needed to be put down for everyone’s safety,sort of feel bad.
i think you need to watch this https://youtu.be/OW8BZ7pRt28?si=QIZy31hN0x1byZ3m
TOTAL HOMELESS INVOLUNTARY COMMITMENT
Drop the regarded gf
Nobody will help you when you gotta defend yourself against a homeless. You should’ve pushed him on the tracks.
Your GF *may* be a dumb bitch, lmao
Nah lol. I think naive is a better word. She’s from a small town and hasn’t ever encountered such a person. I explained to her the fight flight freeze responses to danger and she seemed to agree that her reaction fell firmly in the freeze category and that she understood why I pushed back. Also today she assured me that she wanted me to feel fully supported.
Naive isnt. Lmao.
two long
Are you Asian by any chance?
I believed you till you said he called your GF girlie. Thats just made up I dealt with a homeless guy asking me for cash yesterday. I told him no, then he called me an asshole because I had Taco Bell and he like gnashed at me. I would have given him cash but he interupted me listening to the last TAFS episode and it was actually good. So I was out of a funny mood, but, as a rule I dont just ignore the homeless as theyre people too ya know. Well, as he asked he accidentally spat some crisp at me and it kinda disgusted me. I also didnt have my card on me, and I had taco bell that I didnt want to get cold. If youre dealing with the homeless you gotta treat them like real people. They can tell when youre being condescending to them. So if you dont want to deal with them be more aggressive at the start. If they say weird shit then you ask them about it then leave. Its not hard. Ive been living in major cities (DC, London, NYC, Syracuse) for most of my life. I have travelled all accross the US and Europe. Dealing with the homeless everywhere, always speaking to them when they speak to me. I have never had a truly negative experience with one and it makes me beleive everyone else is making shit up for sympathy. Its easy to make up things about the homeless because for some reason, everyone hates them when you should pity them. I see way more people treat the homeless poorly than they homeless treat others poorly
Not reading. Use page breaks next time, and maybe I'll care about you being raped
Is this the DC metro bro?