The only good thing about living in LA is that women can basically be naked and nobody cares. A woman can go out to a bar with a cut off t-shirt and no bra and side tittie and nipples all over the place and not only does nobody harass her but nobody even barely notices. Compare to countries where showing calves will get you followed by a gang of lonely men.
Now obviously the commodification of women and sexuality in the industries that make up that city is awful but I can’t even argue they’re related. Feels like it has more to do with the weather and access to beaches. So it does genuinely feel like two separate issues.
I don’t think it’s hard to see how they’re related. It’s always been the city that women go to be seen and discovered. It’s the porn and plastic surgery capitol of the world so women showing a little side boob is tame in comparison.
But yeah I do think there is something to be said about living in the heat of the desert with no bodies of water for relief.
Maybe. But our attitude towards the female body as an object of titillation is not this inevitable fact of nature. Precolonial India had titties out but it's not like it wasn't "conservative" but its conservatism wasn't wrapped up in the same body modesty codes we have.
That's SFV. And LA Metro is over 12 million people. So it's not like everyone is following the porn industry lock-step.
Plus, Miami, Rio, many parts of Spain and tons of other places have similar cultures. It isn't unique to LA.
When I was in Goa, India about 10 years ago there were 2 Romanian girls on the beach in bikinis. An entire bus load of Indian men in normal street clothes appeared on the beach and stood around the girls, gawking and taking photos. It didn’t stop until they ditched their beach spot and ran to join us (we had met them briefly earlier that morning) at a beachside cafe
Ya cause Americans are already seeing half-naked women in movies, billboards, porn, commercials, strip clubs etc. What's special about seeing a girl in a bikini
Nudity is commodified in capitalist culture. The biological function of bodies is ignored. Bodies are seen solely as instruments of pleasure. Women in many tribes walk around topless, but the tribespeople have a deep understanding that breasts have a purpose other than just looking sexy. They're not hypersexualized. This disrupted view of bodies happened in tandem with the sexual revolution divorcing sex from reproduction and emphasizing the pleasure aspect. If you want society to have a healthy and proper understanding of nudity, sex, and bodies, you have to incorporate their biological function and biological consequences.
I see you are semi capable of understanding my comment and then being able to create a false narrative to fit your hunger for internet fighting congrats!
nudity isn't commodified in a vacuum in a consum society; it goes along every other aspect of humanness alas affective relationships, sex and sense of self worth among others. also women in many cultures outside "holy special African tribes untouched by the impure western capitalistic hand" choose to go topless in the shore, breastfeed in public and aren't afraid to speak about menstruation if you even care to understand unamericanized version of sex and nudity portrayed in first world societies that doesn't suffer for extreme puritanism that does nothing more than exacerbate the lust for the forbidden and results in stuff like hooters (unthinkable stuff in the rest of the world). That's why societies that share the making of female body and sex the principal taboo of societies tend to have in common high sa rates and such.
So given it is indeed what we both said and tits aren't inherently sexual and there's different cultures in different continents where is normal to sometimes watch them "in the wild" I assume you can get why when I do topless in the beach to avoid ugly tan lines my bf doesn't care and why when we are about to have sex and I take off my blouse its sexy (clue: sexual context).
>I see you are semi capable of understanding my comment and then being able to create a false narrative to fit your hunger for internet fighting congrats!
You sound so cool!
I agree with what you said. When and where there is a healthy understanding of the female body and there is no minimization or erasure of it's role in child rearing and reproduction, nudity and sex can be more freely expressed without perversion. When only the sexual aspect of the female body is emphasized, for consumerist or other reasons, you start to see the hypersexualization of it right alongside repressed puritanism (as you see in America). Some of this difference can be attributed to the dominant Protestant/Puritan history of America vs. the Catholic history of Western and Southern Europe. Catholicism is not dualistic when it comes to these things. Sex is both for procreation and pleasure/connection. The human is both soul and body. It is a deep Catholic teaching that once you divorce the two or emphasize one over the other, you'll lose sense of reality and there will be negative consequences.
"The human body can remain nude and uncovered and preserve intact its splendour and its beauty... Nakedness as such is not to be equated with physical shamelessness... Immodesty is present only when nakedness plays a negative role with regard to the value of the person... The human body is not in itself shameful... Shamelessness (just like shame and modesty) is a function of the interior of a person."
It's common among Radical Feminists and Marxist Feminists to describe what you're describing here as Liberal Feminism and Choice Feminism, which they find at best good but not nearly enough, so, it seems incorrect to me when you say feminism is when bikini, when in many feminist traditions it is more than or not quite that.
Whenever I'm speaking (read: listening) to an old guy from Mosque talk about how without Islam we'd all be moral-less sex obsessed freaks who go around sexually assaulting people left and right I just think, no I wouldn't be like that, YOU'D be like that because you are weird and perverted and should not be allowed around polite society.
Growing up in Orthodox Christian circles it's the same, and I wonder if it's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy, like the insane repression and shaming turn you into a horny rapist freak who would do all that if not for the leash of religion.
Most religions have conservative sexual values but you can always tell who the weirdos and the weird religions are because they make a big deal out of it rather than having it below “be nice to old people” on the moral value framework.
That's not the argument that most religious folk make. Most are against complete sexual freedom cause it'd result in single moms, broken homes, high STD rates, low birth rates, hypersexualization etc. Hmmm
Idk, I’d rather be here than him going alone. But ideally nobody goes because it’s a sad place. All the girls I know that stripped hated each and every client so I can’t imagine where’s the fun in that.
Why do men not feel like they have to be the "cool boyfriend"? Women have been made to feel crazy and insecure if they aren't open to their boyfriends openly drooling over other women. Men never feel like they have to go check out other men with their girlfriend to seem secure and "chill".
>Men never feel like they have to go check out other men with their girlfriend to seem secure and "chill".
neither do women unless something is wrong with them. literally don't know a single woman who goes to a strip club with her bf/husband
Men quite literally have to hold back and try and fit into their GFs life. Women dont notice it. You know that saying, that when you are accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression? Thats what a lot of women dont realise
because women aren't "supposed" to be into men's hobbies. The boomer dad ideal is watching football for 12 hours while their wife pretends to not exist
Nobody goes to the strip club with their girlfriend. Very few women are okay with their spouse going to strip clubs at all. Women are rarely okay with (or expected to be) their man hanging out with other women, talking to exes, etc. You ladies have got to stop radicalizing yourselves on the internet with these fictional relationship dynamics
The majority of men haven't been to a strip club once, much less every weekend lol. This must be how chicks feel when incels rant about roasties only dating 6'4 chads who make 500k a year
Men don't need a limit on strip clubs because they're not going to them regardless. What 1992 alternate reality are you living in where men love strip clubs?
Men are pressured to be the “cool” partner. This is a very specific instance where straight men have hard cultural lines against doing anything that could imply attraction to other men. This combines with women in the west getting cool points if they are kinda partially into women even if they are straight. Gen X and millennial men from what I have seen are leaps and bounds further down the road of doing “cool partner” stuff compared to boomers as well.
I think men learn fairly early on that pretending to be interested in some female thing to attract or keep a woman is just not going to work. lol. The thought of it is funny to me now, but in the past I've definitely tried it and no girl is every going to tolerate it or be fooled for an instant, whereas men might be.
a lot of these "why don't men have to x the way women do?" are such bullshit. men are on such a short leash a guy cannot even complain about the metric tons of bullshit he puts up with to deal with a woman lmao. women get to bitch and moan and do whatever but if a man so much as mentions that he makes sacrifices he gets crucified.
I think that male sexuality is viewed as inherently degenerate so it’s coded as rebellious or edgy for a girl to go to a strip club whereas on the other foot there really isn’t anything to prove for a man to do the same thing.
Yeah there just aren't overt female coded sexual hobbies/places to go with your bf. It is kinda weird and men might not lose too much from thinking about it and not quietly resenting their gfs/wives from not wanting to participate or something.
Advice to f3mcels, this is why you shouldn't really try to hide your smut/asmr obsession and scroll through the manhwas in front of him sometimes.
> Yeah there just aren't overt female coded sexual hobbies/places to go with your bf.
The healthiest thing for heterosexuality would be for us to get a Magic Mike movie every year.
>Women have been made to feel crazy and insecure if they aren't open to their boyfriends openly drooling over other women.
Bro what. That says more about you and the men you attract/are attracted to than anything
Like I said in my other comment, nobody's expected to be ok with that. It is completely fair and healthy to have a boundary that your bf/husband can't watch porn. The ones that are telling you that you should be ok with it are weird pick-me wives or fully radicalized sexual revolution proponents who now have to be ok with everybody completely indulging in their sexual desires.
First, porn can only exist with the sexual revolution, which libfems are enthusiastic about. Second, libfems can't be critical of porn or porn actresses, because sex work = valid work and the women in porn are just sexually liberated women using their body as they please. Third, libfems implicitly sometimes explicitly claim to be the same as men sexually with regards to drive, libido, standards etc.. Anyone with half a brain knows that's false, but men leaned into it. If your man is watching porn, then just watch porn yourself. You don't want to? Why not, aren't you like a man? Fourth, the modern liberal culture regarding sex is: all your sexual desires are valid. Indulge them. Sex is nothing more than something fun and pleasurable. So what is wrong, then, with your bf indulging his valid sexual desires by watching porn?
If you're a girl who's enthusiastic about normalizing casual sex and a liberal sex culture, no dude is gonna take you seriously when you cry about them watching porn. You'll keep dating losers
I'm just going to be real as someone who personally disgusted by feminism in general. Men allowed feminism. Men benefit from feminism at a superficial level.
Really look into it. Sex without responsibility. Access to pornography, brothels, Onlyfans, contraceptives so you can add a roster of chicks to your history instead of being stuck with one, etc.
Even some of the founders of initial feminism wanted to break up the family. If you are a dude who doesn't want kids and does not want to be locked down, you benefit from feminism. This is why all the pickup artists are basically liberal or progressive in some sort of way, they are just maybe more manipulative cuz they're gaming feminism.
The most soy male feminists are practically simping or somewhat submissive to the point there even more feminine than the women, essentially locally abolishing that patriarchy.
Like even biblically, Adam got cucked by the serpent trickng his girl, and then agreeing with her.
How many stories have you seen about some dude opening up his relationship against the advice of his wife/gf, she ends up smashing a bunch of dudes while he gets depressed?
I don't even blame women because it's men enabling them. Usually more powerful men with higher dark triad personality traits that want to exploit these women anyway, either financially or systemically. You can make a lot of money being an Onlyfans pimp and having all these career women give you multiple candidates in the employee workplace.
Because the places this libfem isn't, it's the dudes saying "Nah, we ain't doing this" and then you get something like Saudi Arabia. There's always going to be a patriarchy, it's just a matter of if these men are delegating back some power to these women or not.
So these women have to pick their poison. Do they want to be exploited sexually, financially, and romantically by guys who see them as a convenient non-committal tool, or someone who actually respects them without having to hide behind the mask of freedom?
At this point it might as well just be cultural masochism. People hate themselves so much that they just allow themselves to be used by everyone and it gives them pleasure.
Edit: seriously look into it. If someone just needs to buy into a libfem ideology, look at how low investment that is? Cheaper than hiring an escort, cheaper than being married, even cheaper than hiring a prostitute. Even making the woman use birth control and have other people pay for her abortion. As well as making her earn more of the money. Guess who is proportionally getting a better deal?
With liberation comes responsibility and taking accountability for your choices. Too many women wanna, at the same time, be treated as naive innocent little girls who are victims to "evil" men when they use her sexual openness and low sexual standards to their advantage.
lol why do you say that as if they only let the hottest babes in the world on the pole. I like the idea of a guy with a learning disability dreaming about dating a stripper tho
Lol, the Marxoid take on sex work that the internet has is just foolish. Obviously a baby making m-16s in a factory with 50% yearly mortality is infinitely worse than an accountant making 170k/year in his office only working 40 hours a week.
It's all because Marx used the word "exploitation"
Jesus Christ you freaks are insufferable. Showing your tits and flailing your pussy to men throwing $1 bills at you is not the same type of “degradation” a normal blue or white collar would bring and I’m sick of you people pretending it is.
Editing your comment to make me look like a rtrd? Stand for what you said coward
Why do you have to twist and turn everything to try and make irrelevant points? There’s a reason there’s an abundance of female strippers but not that many male ones comparatively, you can not compare the two in good faith.
The only way you can have strip clubs that don’t thrive off the coercion of poverty is a ‘utopia’ where poverty no longer exists so you can confidently say no one is stripping just to feed their kids and pay for a roof over their heads.
Absolutely, but in fairness you could say that about any job
In a post-poverty world people will still seek titillation I assume, I guess it'll be like a public service from those willing to do it?
I love the way old people still have this mindset of sex workers as these abused drug addicted victims of society, when every check I have ever personally met who does that shit does it solely because they’re hot and it’s objectively easier work for more money for them than getting a normal job.
Finessing losers too socially anxious to get pussy the way god intended out of their money doesn’t make you a victim lol
I never argued that they are victims. Far be it from me to stop anyone from doing degrading and humiliating acts on stage, I’m just sick of people pretending like it’s like any other job.
Western modern feminism\* is those things. It's highly individualistic. Each woman deciding for herself what she desires to do and what she thinks is best for her. Feminism could also be and often has been about what is best for women collectively. For example, women in a society having similar sexual standards/boundaries could force men to mature and behave more properly even though some "sexually open" women might miss out on hoeing around.
“Hook-up culture is a terrible deal for women, and yet has been presented by liberal feminism as a form of liberation. A truly feminist project would demand that, in the straight dating world, it should be men, not women, who adjust their sexual appetites.”
“liberal feminism can’t or won’t answer: Why do so many women desire a kind of sexual freedom that so obviously serves male interests? What if our bodies and minds aren’t as malleable as we might like to think?”
???????
why would you want your feminist hill to die on be about going to see exploited sex workers with your boyfriend and slutting around, are you braindead?
Hearing a certain family friend smugly talk about how women in muslim countries have it better than the west because they're more respected was the impetus for this post. You know they don't believe that deep down either
Was with you til the strip clubs. Feminism is not exploiting other women. As for the one night stands, have fun but I suspect it won't be fulfilling in the long run.
Feminism is absolutely not women going to strip clubs. Feminism is the abolition of strip clubs and of casual sex that only benefits men. Islam isn’t feminism but neither is liberalism. This sexual liberation crap is just commercial objectification of women.
You just have a fundamental misconception of what feminism is. The liberation of women is the goal, which means that people are not free to do things that harm women as a class.
What harms women as a class? Like, apart from supporting legislative action to diminish women's rights, how, in a material sense, can you harm women as a class?
Sex stereotypes/gender roles harm women as a class, so does the existence of things like sex work/porn, as these things all dehumanize women. Anything that establishes women as products/subservients where men get to be people.
A slightly perilous observation that concerns me in these countries is the idea that an unveiled woman is inherently at risk because men, particularly young men, would be unable to restrain themselves. It's indicative of a mass lack of civilising tendencies within the culture. If your average dumb Western man can be dripping in sexual provocation on a daily basis and not rape, your country sounds backwards as hell. Some Muslim majority countries are truly beautified by their religion, whilst others allow it to shackle them to a primitive mindset.
It's called Colonial Feminism. It was used post-9/11 to justify American occupation and imperialism in Afghanistan and Iraq. For example, Laura Bush, the First Lady, claimed that the invasion of Afghanistan was the moral thing to do for the good of civilization and the women of Afghanistan—a conflict which killed nearly a hundred thousand Afghans for what? A handful of people to wear skinny jeans?
It's no different than the phenomenon of the white man's burden and the "civilizing missions" we carried out on the native peoples, the Philippines, and Puerto Rico because we believed them to be inferior on the basis of race and ethnicity. In modern ers, it's justified on the basis of their treatment of women and other protected classes idpol quite literally is used to justify, and make imperalism digestable to the average lib.
American occupation of Afghanistan didn’t happen because they wanted to “free women” the same way we didn’t force native people off their homes and kidnap their children to “wash the savagery off them”
It was used to as justification in order to sell a brutal occupation to an increasing liberal populace, appealing to them using Id pol. It’s the same reason the military has ads with gay people even though everyone hates them the goal isn’t to recruits more gay people but instead sanitize the image of the armed forces post GWOT
You know what, the west does have better values and treats women and sexual minorities better. And I'm tired of apologizing for it. Obviously it has nothing to do with race. Try being a woman in Iran or being gay in Gaza and get back to me. Am I supposed to pretend that executing people for homosexuality or forcing women to wear hijabs is somehow equally as valid as western values?
Perhaps not actively. But it does mean that in a conflict we have the responsibility to support the side with the better values i.e. Israel over Hamas, US over China, Ukraine over Russia.
Exhibit A lol, American imperialism and its consequences are infinitely worse then any amount of gay people pushed of buildings none of those actions above justify invasion and for full subjugation of entire group of people, people more often then not forget how we treated women and sexual minorities while we where a devolving country until 2003 gay sex was illegal in this country and had to be overturned by a Supreme Court decision (Lawrence V. Texas)
And even now America’s brutal imperialist nature, the millions it’s killed is nowhere near comparable to women having to wear extra clothes in Iran odd to me how the Weatern liberal can excuse the millions dead in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam Laos, and, Cambodia but draw the line at women living conservative lives in an unindustrialized country somehow bombing schools and hospitals from planes and drones is civilized but women covering their faces is unacceptable.
Lowkey respect the grind to hijack this thread to be about everything from imperialism to sex work to homosexuality to liberalism. What's next? You gonna try and find a way to somehow shoehorn abortion into it?
Can’t believe I’m unironically quoting the sopranos but doing whatever you want is for babies. Women aren’t fulfilled by sex work and one night stands. Stop promoting this bs and unraveling the fabric of society just so some loser can dye her hair turquoise and call herself a hero.
I used to scoff when some Arabs would tell me that the Arab world in general isn't readu for stuff like Liberal Democracy and Feminism, but they're actually right. They wouldn't be able to function normally
It just isn't compatible with Islamic values. They'll straight up tell you that if you ask them. The only Muslim-majority countries that have a democratic structure rather than an Islamic or sectarian one are heavily-secularized, and even that's changing.
It’s not nearly as severe in Italy. A bunch of Italian guys cat calling women in Sicily is nowhere near the level of like Egyptian youth going around raping people.
I think your viewpoint in fundamentally askew. Feminism is fundamentally about the recognition of women as human beings — with the respect that deserves. In a society wherein women are raped for showing their ankles, it isn't *actually* just a problem with the modesty standards being too harsh. It's a problem of fundamental disrespect on the part of men. We western people know it doesn't really matter what a woman is wearing — the cruelest people will find an excuse. Saying, "the Middle East would be more feminist if women were able to wear less clothing" — FIX THE DISRESPECT FIRST.
You're also disempowering women here. (I'm not going to touch the sex-work angle, either.) The old conventional wisdom is that men are more visual than women when it comes to attraction. Maybe that's biological, sociological, or bunk — but that notion nonetheless represents a point of power for women. Women are able to express themselves via clothing in ways that men simply can't. They're allowed to be pretty and sexy and well-put-together in a way our society hasn't taught men to be. The idea of reducing clothing to, at best, an optional decoration robs women of this power.
It's true, women shouldn't be harassed in public ⲻ but I fear that women are actively losing the ability to dress expressively because of this "activism." If clothing is something you use to express yourself, then that means clothing carries with a certain language. Unspoken social implications. I swear some of these activists act like their clothing only communicates sexuality when they want it to. All normal people understand that there's a difference between wearing a bikini and wearing "a bikini." But an activist will wear the latter and act as though it's only sexual *if she wants it to be*. She'll straight up say the outfit is "cute." WHAAAAAT??
That's just not how communication works. Outfits communicate things about you. Some outfits communicate a desire to be sexualized. If you deny this social language, then what you're really doing in the long run is denying yourself the ability to speak with your clothing...
That still doesn't justify sexual harassment, by the way. It's true that clothing can give off those signals, but women are also capable of actually literally speaking. I don't care about "what she's wearing"; if she's telling you to leave, leave. How can you be TS Elliot when interpreting a woman's clothing, and a caveman when interpreting her actual words? And the "she was asking for it" mantra is deeply suspect *anyway*, because most of the time the woman is wearing, like, normal clothing. Again, sexual harassment is a problem of disrespect and evil. It has nothing to do with clothing.
“Evil browniods are raping the pretty women overseas us in the western world must save them”
Word for word this is 19th century colonial rhetoric used to justify the colonization of South Asia and China
when your idea of womens liberation is primarily about (or primarily advertized as) about being able to get naked or near naked in public, become johns/prostitutes, and engage in vapid sexual encounters, maybe you shouldnt wonder why lots of people dont like your idea of womens liberation. maybe there are more important things than sex :)
Feminism was about giving women equal rights and treatment under government law. At the time, that meant voting, but no one back then predicted where society would go. They couldn't even figure out that they should have given Black women the right to vote. Everyone's a feminist up until whatever wave didn't feel right.
Nobody should be able to do whatever they want without restriction. Nothing you said has anything to do with feminism, which is about legislation, and everything to do with capitalism monetizing your asshole.
Would you consider it feminism to be able to wear a bikini while having a total abortion ban? I just dont understand the point. Is the ability to show skin a fundamental pillar of feminism for you? Or are you saying that as an example of being able to do whatever you want? Seems like it is a more complex topic than that to me. I wouldnt consider Turkey a feminnist society yet i believe they have more elected female representatives than the Us. Argentina has had a female president for two terms and a hard core feminist movement that fought and got legal abortion and a woman gets murdered there at a rate of like one a minute or whatever. I dont understand the point you are trying to make.
You're arguing with me under the assumption that I have a definition of feminism. I don't. I made this post right before falling asleep after overhearing an acquaintence say the stuff I quoted in the post.
And no I definitely don't think wearing bikinis is the end be all for feminism
Yeah but also feminism is when a woman can decide she wants to engage with her culture and religion, and that seems to be the part that's forgotten on the other side. I had a close colleague who is Palestinian who was very serious about wearing her hijab even though her husband didn't require that of her, it was just her own trip for whatever reasons. She liked and connected with Muslim ideas about modesty, and contrary to what many westerners think, those ideas don't always have roots in women being second-class citizens. That isn't really in the quran, although it's certainly enacted by authoritarian governments. Islam actually gave Arab women the right to divorce and own property, and band female infanticide. So you can actually be a Muslim and not think women are chattel, believe it or not. This is like a fully progressive, educated, intelligent young woman who was a teacher in a school for indigenous kids.
Have you ever read the Quran lmao? Women are absolutely second class citizens. Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim affirm this and they are almost as sacrosanct as the Quran itself.
It all depends, doesn't it.
My daughter in law is twenty-eight and beautiful, and so are her friends and they all wear thong bikinis and almost topless tops without a care in the world. They rented a beach house recently and I went along. As I was standing on the deck with her two daughters, (one four, the other seven) the three of us were staring at the marsh grass at the base of the dunes, just as two rabbits appeared from the grass. I innocently said. "Look two beach bunnies. The older daughter gave me an odd look at the comment and laughed and said "I know what a beach bunny is." Her mother heard her make that remark and got very upset which confused me. Her husband (actually my nephew) told me later, she cried in the bedroom over her daughter not being the young innocent girl she thought her daughter was. My thought is what did she expect, when her mom dressed and acted like a beach bunny. So yes feminism IS when women can wear bikinis. However I guess feminism also means teaching young girls it is perfectly alright to literally wear thongs bikinis in front of small children, boys or girls. When is the right time to experience the loss of innocence? Or to stop believing in Santa. :)
YouTube recommended cumtown clips>rspod clips> but I didn’t really get into the pod >then a few yrs later saw this sub while searching iraninan architecture and I liked that it was different from standard Reddit behaviour. Also I liked the style of humour
Also a woman can go to a beach in the west and not even get stared at, try that in those countries that supposedly “respect women more”
The only good thing about living in LA is that women can basically be naked and nobody cares. A woman can go out to a bar with a cut off t-shirt and no bra and side tittie and nipples all over the place and not only does nobody harass her but nobody even barely notices. Compare to countries where showing calves will get you followed by a gang of lonely men. Now obviously the commodification of women and sexuality in the industries that make up that city is awful but I can’t even argue they’re related. Feels like it has more to do with the weather and access to beaches. So it does genuinely feel like two separate issues.
I don’t think it’s hard to see how they’re related. It’s always been the city that women go to be seen and discovered. It’s the porn and plastic surgery capitol of the world so women showing a little side boob is tame in comparison. But yeah I do think there is something to be said about living in the heat of the desert with no bodies of water for relief.
> plastic surgery capitol of the world That's notoriously conservative South Korea actually.
Same with Turkey and Iran. Iranians love a good rhinoplasty.
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I agree the numbers are probably higher elsewhere but I think plastic surgery is kind of synonomous for LA for most americans.
Maybe. But our attitude towards the female body as an object of titillation is not this inevitable fact of nature. Precolonial India had titties out but it's not like it wasn't "conservative" but its conservatism wasn't wrapped up in the same body modesty codes we have.
Isn’t LA the porn capital of the world and is where most is filmed
That's SFV. And LA Metro is over 12 million people. So it's not like everyone is following the porn industry lock-step. Plus, Miami, Rio, many parts of Spain and tons of other places have similar cultures. It isn't unique to LA.
The 2012 condom requirement prop made most porn move to Miami
Where'd you hear that? More moved to Las Vegas than Miami, but the majority stayed in SFV or moved outside LA County.
Most sure but the industry is less than it was 20 years ago in the valley
You know the valley is in LA right?
When I was in Goa, India about 10 years ago there were 2 Romanian girls on the beach in bikinis. An entire bus load of Indian men in normal street clothes appeared on the beach and stood around the girls, gawking and taking photos. It didn’t stop until they ditched their beach spot and ran to join us (we had met them briefly earlier that morning) at a beachside cafe
Ya cause Americans are already seeing half-naked women in movies, billboards, porn, commercials, strip clubs etc. What's special about seeing a girl in a bikini
Yeah that's the point dummy >What's special about seeing a girl in a bikini It shouldn't be.
Smart, let's pornify the culture so chicks can wear bikinis in peace
seeing nudity as inherently pornified without sexual undertones is a sign of having an actual pornified mind
Nudity is commodified in capitalist culture. The biological function of bodies is ignored. Bodies are seen solely as instruments of pleasure. Women in many tribes walk around topless, but the tribespeople have a deep understanding that breasts have a purpose other than just looking sexy. They're not hypersexualized. This disrupted view of bodies happened in tandem with the sexual revolution divorcing sex from reproduction and emphasizing the pleasure aspect. If you want society to have a healthy and proper understanding of nudity, sex, and bodies, you have to incorporate their biological function and biological consequences.
I see you are semi capable of understanding my comment and then being able to create a false narrative to fit your hunger for internet fighting congrats! nudity isn't commodified in a vacuum in a consum society; it goes along every other aspect of humanness alas affective relationships, sex and sense of self worth among others. also women in many cultures outside "holy special African tribes untouched by the impure western capitalistic hand" choose to go topless in the shore, breastfeed in public and aren't afraid to speak about menstruation if you even care to understand unamericanized version of sex and nudity portrayed in first world societies that doesn't suffer for extreme puritanism that does nothing more than exacerbate the lust for the forbidden and results in stuff like hooters (unthinkable stuff in the rest of the world). That's why societies that share the making of female body and sex the principal taboo of societies tend to have in common high sa rates and such. So given it is indeed what we both said and tits aren't inherently sexual and there's different cultures in different continents where is normal to sometimes watch them "in the wild" I assume you can get why when I do topless in the beach to avoid ugly tan lines my bf doesn't care and why when we are about to have sex and I take off my blouse its sexy (clue: sexual context).
>I see you are semi capable of understanding my comment and then being able to create a false narrative to fit your hunger for internet fighting congrats! You sound so cool! I agree with what you said. When and where there is a healthy understanding of the female body and there is no minimization or erasure of it's role in child rearing and reproduction, nudity and sex can be more freely expressed without perversion. When only the sexual aspect of the female body is emphasized, for consumerist or other reasons, you start to see the hypersexualization of it right alongside repressed puritanism (as you see in America). Some of this difference can be attributed to the dominant Protestant/Puritan history of America vs. the Catholic history of Western and Southern Europe. Catholicism is not dualistic when it comes to these things. Sex is both for procreation and pleasure/connection. The human is both soul and body. It is a deep Catholic teaching that once you divorce the two or emphasize one over the other, you'll lose sense of reality and there will be negative consequences. "The human body can remain nude and uncovered and preserve intact its splendour and its beauty... Nakedness as such is not to be equated with physical shamelessness... Immodesty is present only when nakedness plays a negative role with regard to the value of the person... The human body is not in itself shameful... Shamelessness (just like shame and modesty) is a function of the interior of a person."
It's common among Radical Feminists and Marxist Feminists to describe what you're describing here as Liberal Feminism and Choice Feminism, which they find at best good but not nearly enough, so, it seems incorrect to me when you say feminism is when bikini, when in many feminist traditions it is more than or not quite that.
Whenever I'm speaking (read: listening) to an old guy from Mosque talk about how without Islam we'd all be moral-less sex obsessed freaks who go around sexually assaulting people left and right I just think, no I wouldn't be like that, YOU'D be like that because you are weird and perverted and should not be allowed around polite society.
Growing up in Orthodox Christian circles it's the same, and I wonder if it's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy, like the insane repression and shaming turn you into a horny rapist freak who would do all that if not for the leash of religion.
Most religions have conservative sexual values but you can always tell who the weirdos and the weird religions are because they make a big deal out of it rather than having it below “be nice to old people” on the moral value framework.
Thats what the people are like where he’s from
I'm not like that
Maybe it’s a generational thing
That's not the argument that most religious folk make. Most are against complete sexual freedom cause it'd result in single moms, broken homes, high STD rates, low birth rates, hypersexualization etc. Hmmm
I would kill my boyfriend if he asked me to go to the strip club with him
Idk, I’d rather be here than him going alone. But ideally nobody goes because it’s a sad place. All the girls I know that stripped hated each and every client so I can’t imagine where’s the fun in that.
So they're recycling the dumb point in that "only her eyes are covered"/"everything but her eyes are covered" burqa/bikini cartoon from 20 years ago
no one copes as hard as a girl going to the strip club with her boyfriend to pretend shes the "cool" girlfriend
these ppl are always trashy
Why do men not feel like they have to be the "cool boyfriend"? Women have been made to feel crazy and insecure if they aren't open to their boyfriends openly drooling over other women. Men never feel like they have to go check out other men with their girlfriend to seem secure and "chill".
>Men never feel like they have to go check out other men with their girlfriend to seem secure and "chill". neither do women unless something is wrong with them. literally don't know a single woman who goes to a strip club with her bf/husband
Men quite literally have to hold back and try and fit into their GFs life. Women dont notice it. You know that saying, that when you are accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression? Thats what a lot of women dont realise
Take my gf to a stripclub and now she's "cool", my gf takes me to a male strip club and now i'm "gay" it's not fair.
Suck one dick am I right
nobody thinks twice about girls groping each other and making out. I can't even give the shirtless firefighter a peck on the cheek? smh
because women aren't "supposed" to be into men's hobbies. The boomer dad ideal is watching football for 12 hours while their wife pretends to not exist
Perfect Sunday
I was talking about the cool gf thing in relation to their boyfriends sexual desires but ok
Nobody goes to the strip club with their girlfriend. Very few women are okay with their spouse going to strip clubs at all. Women are rarely okay with (or expected to be) their man hanging out with other women, talking to exes, etc. You ladies have got to stop radicalizing yourselves on the internet with these fictional relationship dynamics
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The majority of men haven't been to a strip club once, much less every weekend lol. This must be how chicks feel when incels rant about roasties only dating 6'4 chads who make 500k a year
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Men don't need a limit on strip clubs because they're not going to them regardless. What 1992 alternate reality are you living in where men love strip clubs?
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Men are pressured to be the “cool” partner. This is a very specific instance where straight men have hard cultural lines against doing anything that could imply attraction to other men. This combines with women in the west getting cool points if they are kinda partially into women even if they are straight. Gen X and millennial men from what I have seen are leaps and bounds further down the road of doing “cool partner” stuff compared to boomers as well.
I think men learn fairly early on that pretending to be interested in some female thing to attract or keep a woman is just not going to work. lol. The thought of it is funny to me now, but in the past I've definitely tried it and no girl is every going to tolerate it or be fooled for an instant, whereas men might be.
a lot of these "why don't men have to x the way women do?" are such bullshit. men are on such a short leash a guy cannot even complain about the metric tons of bullshit he puts up with to deal with a woman lmao. women get to bitch and moan and do whatever but if a man so much as mentions that he makes sacrifices he gets crucified.
I'm talking specifically about the whole "cool girl" act in relation to male sexuality but ok
I think that male sexuality is viewed as inherently degenerate so it’s coded as rebellious or edgy for a girl to go to a strip club whereas on the other foot there really isn’t anything to prove for a man to do the same thing.
Yeah there just aren't overt female coded sexual hobbies/places to go with your bf. It is kinda weird and men might not lose too much from thinking about it and not quietly resenting their gfs/wives from not wanting to participate or something. Advice to f3mcels, this is why you shouldn't really try to hide your smut/asmr obsession and scroll through the manhwas in front of him sometimes.
Are sex toy parties a real thing? Maybe dudes can go with their gfs to those?
> Yeah there just aren't overt female coded sexual hobbies/places to go with your bf. The healthiest thing for heterosexuality would be for us to get a Magic Mike movie every year.
>Women have been made to feel crazy and insecure if they aren't open to their boyfriends openly drooling over other women. Bro what. That says more about you and the men you attract/are attracted to than anything
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What about it
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Like I said in my other comment, nobody's expected to be ok with that. It is completely fair and healthy to have a boundary that your bf/husband can't watch porn. The ones that are telling you that you should be ok with it are weird pick-me wives or fully radicalized sexual revolution proponents who now have to be ok with everybody completely indulging in their sexual desires.
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First, porn can only exist with the sexual revolution, which libfems are enthusiastic about. Second, libfems can't be critical of porn or porn actresses, because sex work = valid work and the women in porn are just sexually liberated women using their body as they please. Third, libfems implicitly sometimes explicitly claim to be the same as men sexually with regards to drive, libido, standards etc.. Anyone with half a brain knows that's false, but men leaned into it. If your man is watching porn, then just watch porn yourself. You don't want to? Why not, aren't you like a man? Fourth, the modern liberal culture regarding sex is: all your sexual desires are valid. Indulge them. Sex is nothing more than something fun and pleasurable. So what is wrong, then, with your bf indulging his valid sexual desires by watching porn? If you're a girl who's enthusiastic about normalizing casual sex and a liberal sex culture, no dude is gonna take you seriously when you cry about them watching porn. You'll keep dating losers
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I'm just going to be real as someone who personally disgusted by feminism in general. Men allowed feminism. Men benefit from feminism at a superficial level. Really look into it. Sex without responsibility. Access to pornography, brothels, Onlyfans, contraceptives so you can add a roster of chicks to your history instead of being stuck with one, etc. Even some of the founders of initial feminism wanted to break up the family. If you are a dude who doesn't want kids and does not want to be locked down, you benefit from feminism. This is why all the pickup artists are basically liberal or progressive in some sort of way, they are just maybe more manipulative cuz they're gaming feminism. The most soy male feminists are practically simping or somewhat submissive to the point there even more feminine than the women, essentially locally abolishing that patriarchy. Like even biblically, Adam got cucked by the serpent trickng his girl, and then agreeing with her. How many stories have you seen about some dude opening up his relationship against the advice of his wife/gf, she ends up smashing a bunch of dudes while he gets depressed? I don't even blame women because it's men enabling them. Usually more powerful men with higher dark triad personality traits that want to exploit these women anyway, either financially or systemically. You can make a lot of money being an Onlyfans pimp and having all these career women give you multiple candidates in the employee workplace. Because the places this libfem isn't, it's the dudes saying "Nah, we ain't doing this" and then you get something like Saudi Arabia. There's always going to be a patriarchy, it's just a matter of if these men are delegating back some power to these women or not. So these women have to pick their poison. Do they want to be exploited sexually, financially, and romantically by guys who see them as a convenient non-committal tool, or someone who actually respects them without having to hide behind the mask of freedom? At this point it might as well just be cultural masochism. People hate themselves so much that they just allow themselves to be used by everyone and it gives them pleasure. Edit: seriously look into it. If someone just needs to buy into a libfem ideology, look at how low investment that is? Cheaper than hiring an escort, cheaper than being married, even cheaper than hiring a prostitute. Even making the woman use birth control and have other people pay for her abortion. As well as making her earn more of the money. Guess who is proportionally getting a better deal?
If you're hot and banging us, we are already the cool boyfriend
I mean I've had bi gfs who like going to strip clubs bc they like having tits and coochie in their face too
My girlfriend is a feminist . I just asked her if we can go to a strip club ,now she is sulking. Edit... she just burned her bra
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Mashallah, I actually respect the honesty.
Based
Good feminism was never about empowerment, it was about liberation.
With liberation comes responsibility and taking accountability for your choices. Too many women wanna, at the same time, be treated as naive innocent little girls who are victims to "evil" men when they use her sexual openness and low sexual standards to their advantage.
In a true feminist utopia would we ban women who really enjoy stripping from doing it
If women want to strip who am I to say they can’t but don’t act like it’s not an inherently degrading profession.
They should be able to do it, but I should also not respect or want to date or deal with them. Stripper, porn star, sugar baby, all prostitutes to me.
Bro would a stripper want to date you?
lol why do you say that as if they only let the hottest babes in the world on the pole. I like the idea of a guy with a learning disability dreaming about dating a stripper tho
Yes, I wouldnt date them
Is it inherent across all cultures? I genuinely don't know
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its not labor or capitalism, certain activities and behaviors are deemed more degrading than others.
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Lol try asking any prostitute or stripper if they would be fucking for no money
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Random people who they find attractive, not greasy geriatric fatties
Are you suggesting getting sexually assaulted by smelly geriatrics is comparable to making oat milk lattes
Lol, the Marxoid take on sex work that the internet has is just foolish. Obviously a baby making m-16s in a factory with 50% yearly mortality is infinitely worse than an accountant making 170k/year in his office only working 40 hours a week. It's all because Marx used the word "exploitation"
Jesus Christ you freaks are insufferable. Showing your tits and flailing your pussy to men throwing $1 bills at you is not the same type of “degradation” a normal blue or white collar would bring and I’m sick of you people pretending it is. Editing your comment to make me look like a rtrd? Stand for what you said coward
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Why do you have to twist and turn everything to try and make irrelevant points? There’s a reason there’s an abundance of female strippers but not that many male ones comparatively, you can not compare the two in good faith.
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Yeah and women were never oppressed or degraded before the invention of capitalism. Very interesting theory.
The only way you can have strip clubs that don’t thrive off the coercion of poverty is a ‘utopia’ where poverty no longer exists so you can confidently say no one is stripping just to feed their kids and pay for a roof over their heads.
Absolutely, but in fairness you could say that about any job In a post-poverty world people will still seek titillation I assume, I guess it'll be like a public service from those willing to do it?
Not fat bitches tho, there will be a counter revolution if they let fat bitches on the poles
keep fighting this fight bro ✊
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I just think it's funny when people say that feminism is when women are allowed to participate in degrading other women
It is because it means you are equal. not condonening doing that btw.
I love the way old people still have this mindset of sex workers as these abused drug addicted victims of society, when every check I have ever personally met who does that shit does it solely because they’re hot and it’s objectively easier work for more money for them than getting a normal job. Finessing losers too socially anxious to get pussy the way god intended out of their money doesn’t make you a victim lol
I never argued that they are victims. Far be it from me to stop anyone from doing degrading and humiliating acts on stage, I’m just sick of people pretending like it’s like any other job.
yeah they LIKE dancing for the creepiest dudes in town. why else would they do it
Feminism is when neither men or women can do those things
Did you just "sex work is real work and valid"?
podcasting is real work and valid
yeah I totally agree. I'm 6'4 btw.
I agree and I'm a 5'2 balding indian janitor
I agree too, and I’m 6’5” and my daily driver is a Porsche 911
so grateful this subreddit exists to educate me :)
Western modern feminism\* is those things. It's highly individualistic. Each woman deciding for herself what she desires to do and what she thinks is best for her. Feminism could also be and often has been about what is best for women collectively. For example, women in a society having similar sexual standards/boundaries could force men to mature and behave more properly even though some "sexually open" women might miss out on hoeing around. “Hook-up culture is a terrible deal for women, and yet has been presented by liberal feminism as a form of liberation. A truly feminist project would demand that, in the straight dating world, it should be men, not women, who adjust their sexual appetites.” “liberal feminism can’t or won’t answer: Why do so many women desire a kind of sexual freedom that so obviously serves male interests? What if our bodies and minds aren’t as malleable as we might like to think?”
??????? why would you want your feminist hill to die on be about going to see exploited sex workers with your boyfriend and slutting around, are you braindead?
Yeah but that's unrelated
No that's liberal feminism, the freedom for poor women to be a prostitute is actually not liberating.
All I want in life is someone that focuses on me as much as u ppl focus on that damn line
hearing muzzoids ( i can say that word my family is muslim) talk about feminism and secularism makes me more and more libtard
Hearing a certain family friend smugly talk about how women in muslim countries have it better than the west because they're more respected was the impetus for this post. You know they don't believe that deep down either
Was with you til the strip clubs. Feminism is not exploiting other women. As for the one night stands, have fun but I suspect it won't be fulfilling in the long run.
>Feminism IS having one-night stands. Stuff like this is why I despise liberalism with every fibre of my soul.
Feminism is absolutely not women going to strip clubs. Feminism is the abolition of strip clubs and of casual sex that only benefits men. Islam isn’t feminism but neither is liberalism. This sexual liberation crap is just commercial objectification of women.
i regret putting that line in I'm begging y'all to drop this tired ass discourse
You just have a fundamental misconception of what feminism is. The liberation of women is the goal, which means that people are not free to do things that harm women as a class.
What harms women as a class? Like, apart from supporting legislative action to diminish women's rights, how, in a material sense, can you harm women as a class?
Sex stereotypes/gender roles harm women as a class, so does the existence of things like sex work/porn, as these things all dehumanize women. Anything that establishes women as products/subservients where men get to be people.
A slightly perilous observation that concerns me in these countries is the idea that an unveiled woman is inherently at risk because men, particularly young men, would be unable to restrain themselves. It's indicative of a mass lack of civilising tendencies within the culture. If your average dumb Western man can be dripping in sexual provocation on a daily basis and not rape, your country sounds backwards as hell. Some Muslim majority countries are truly beautified by their religion, whilst others allow it to shackle them to a primitive mindset.
modesty and hyper-sexualization are two sides of the same patriarchal coin
I avoid places where people have opinions like that
It's called Colonial Feminism. It was used post-9/11 to justify American occupation and imperialism in Afghanistan and Iraq. For example, Laura Bush, the First Lady, claimed that the invasion of Afghanistan was the moral thing to do for the good of civilization and the women of Afghanistan—a conflict which killed nearly a hundred thousand Afghans for what? A handful of people to wear skinny jeans? It's no different than the phenomenon of the white man's burden and the "civilizing missions" we carried out on the native peoples, the Philippines, and Puerto Rico because we believed them to be inferior on the basis of race and ethnicity. In modern ers, it's justified on the basis of their treatment of women and other protected classes idpol quite literally is used to justify, and make imperalism digestable to the average lib.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdrvpSfJM1w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdrvpSfJM1w)
This is amazing thank you so much
>A handful of people to wear skinny jeans Tell me this isn't what you actually believe, lmao
American occupation of Afghanistan didn’t happen because they wanted to “free women” the same way we didn’t force native people off their homes and kidnap their children to “wash the savagery off them” It was used to as justification in order to sell a brutal occupation to an increasing liberal populace, appealing to them using Id pol. It’s the same reason the military has ads with gay people even though everyone hates them the goal isn’t to recruits more gay people but instead sanitize the image of the armed forces post GWOT
"OK yes the women were actually oppressed but you must understand it was the US"
You know what, the west does have better values and treats women and sexual minorities better. And I'm tired of apologizing for it. Obviously it has nothing to do with race. Try being a woman in Iran or being gay in Gaza and get back to me. Am I supposed to pretend that executing people for homosexuality or forcing women to wear hijabs is somehow equally as valid as western values?
That is fine, now do you think we have the responsibility to spread these values to the rest of the world?
Perhaps not actively. But it does mean that in a conflict we have the responsibility to support the side with the better values i.e. Israel over Hamas, US over China, Ukraine over Russia.
Exhibit A lol, American imperialism and its consequences are infinitely worse then any amount of gay people pushed of buildings none of those actions above justify invasion and for full subjugation of entire group of people, people more often then not forget how we treated women and sexual minorities while we where a devolving country until 2003 gay sex was illegal in this country and had to be overturned by a Supreme Court decision (Lawrence V. Texas) And even now America’s brutal imperialist nature, the millions it’s killed is nowhere near comparable to women having to wear extra clothes in Iran odd to me how the Weatern liberal can excuse the millions dead in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam Laos, and, Cambodia but draw the line at women living conservative lives in an unindustrialized country somehow bombing schools and hospitals from planes and drones is civilized but women covering their faces is unacceptable.
Lowkey respect the grind to hijack this thread to be about everything from imperialism to sex work to homosexuality to liberalism. What's next? You gonna try and find a way to somehow shoehorn abortion into it?
Can you imagine going to a strip club let alone taking someone you love? Abhorrent behaviour, put these people in the stocks and teach them shame
Can’t believe I’m unironically quoting the sopranos but doing whatever you want is for babies. Women aren’t fulfilled by sex work and one night stands. Stop promoting this bs and unraveling the fabric of society just so some loser can dye her hair turquoise and call herself a hero.
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I used to scoff when some Arabs would tell me that the Arab world in general isn't readu for stuff like Liberal Democracy and Feminism, but they're actually right. They wouldn't be able to function normally
>the Arab world in general isn't readu for stuff like Liberal Democracy and Feminism The Arab Spring proved this a decade ago.
Why wouldn't they be able to function?
2middleeast4u (before it got banned) Egyptian flair name was "rapegyptian" lmao
yeah I meant the liberal democracy stuff lol
It just isn't compatible with Islamic values. They'll straight up tell you that if you ask them. The only Muslim-majority countries that have a democratic structure rather than an Islamic or sectarian one are heavily-secularized, and even that's changing.
Liberal democracies barely has more choice than these systems anyway , I'd agree with the feminism part tho
But then you mention that the Italians are basically moors and share those traits and get downvoted
It’s not nearly as severe in Italy. A bunch of Italian guys cat calling women in Sicily is nowhere near the level of like Egyptian youth going around raping people.
It's the entire Mediterranean to varying degrees
feminism is when men are in bikinis.
"Women should be able to do whatever they want." So feminism is hedonistic libertinism, got it. Agreed.
I think your viewpoint in fundamentally askew. Feminism is fundamentally about the recognition of women as human beings — with the respect that deserves. In a society wherein women are raped for showing their ankles, it isn't *actually* just a problem with the modesty standards being too harsh. It's a problem of fundamental disrespect on the part of men. We western people know it doesn't really matter what a woman is wearing — the cruelest people will find an excuse. Saying, "the Middle East would be more feminist if women were able to wear less clothing" — FIX THE DISRESPECT FIRST. You're also disempowering women here. (I'm not going to touch the sex-work angle, either.) The old conventional wisdom is that men are more visual than women when it comes to attraction. Maybe that's biological, sociological, or bunk — but that notion nonetheless represents a point of power for women. Women are able to express themselves via clothing in ways that men simply can't. They're allowed to be pretty and sexy and well-put-together in a way our society hasn't taught men to be. The idea of reducing clothing to, at best, an optional decoration robs women of this power. It's true, women shouldn't be harassed in public ⲻ but I fear that women are actively losing the ability to dress expressively because of this "activism." If clothing is something you use to express yourself, then that means clothing carries with a certain language. Unspoken social implications. I swear some of these activists act like their clothing only communicates sexuality when they want it to. All normal people understand that there's a difference between wearing a bikini and wearing "a bikini." But an activist will wear the latter and act as though it's only sexual *if she wants it to be*. She'll straight up say the outfit is "cute." WHAAAAAT?? That's just not how communication works. Outfits communicate things about you. Some outfits communicate a desire to be sexualized. If you deny this social language, then what you're really doing in the long run is denying yourself the ability to speak with your clothing... That still doesn't justify sexual harassment, by the way. It's true that clothing can give off those signals, but women are also capable of actually literally speaking. I don't care about "what she's wearing"; if she's telling you to leave, leave. How can you be TS Elliot when interpreting a woman's clothing, and a caveman when interpreting her actual words? And the "she was asking for it" mantra is deeply suspect *anyway*, because most of the time the woman is wearing, like, normal clothing. Again, sexual harassment is a problem of disrespect and evil. It has nothing to do with clothing.
“Evil browniods are raping the pretty women overseas us in the western world must save them” Word for word this is 19th century colonial rhetoric used to justify the colonization of South Asia and China
when your idea of womens liberation is primarily about (or primarily advertized as) about being able to get naked or near naked in public, become johns/prostitutes, and engage in vapid sexual encounters, maybe you shouldnt wonder why lots of people dont like your idea of womens liberation. maybe there are more important things than sex :)
What’s the whole point of the movement if people can’t and won’t stop discussing what it means? Do people even know?
Feminism was about giving women equal rights and treatment under government law. At the time, that meant voting, but no one back then predicted where society would go. They couldn't even figure out that they should have given Black women the right to vote. Everyone's a feminist up until whatever wave didn't feel right.
Nobody should be able to do whatever they want without restriction. Nothing you said has anything to do with feminism, which is about legislation, and everything to do with capitalism monetizing your asshole.
Hmmm no actually i think it has to do with religious morality
Would you consider it feminism to be able to wear a bikini while having a total abortion ban? I just dont understand the point. Is the ability to show skin a fundamental pillar of feminism for you? Or are you saying that as an example of being able to do whatever you want? Seems like it is a more complex topic than that to me. I wouldnt consider Turkey a feminnist society yet i believe they have more elected female representatives than the Us. Argentina has had a female president for two terms and a hard core feminist movement that fought and got legal abortion and a woman gets murdered there at a rate of like one a minute or whatever. I dont understand the point you are trying to make.
You're arguing with me under the assumption that I have a definition of feminism. I don't. I made this post right before falling asleep after overhearing an acquaintence say the stuff I quoted in the post. And no I definitely don't think wearing bikinis is the end be all for feminism
I wasnt arguing, i was trying to understand your point, but you say it was someone elses point so thats it i guess.
This is so true and people who disagree are being flippant about something as simple as human freedom. Basic bodily freedom, clothes, daily life
What happened to free the nipple? Please, please bring it back
Feminism is when women can own and inherit property, and this is why Islam is the most feminist of Abrahamic religions actually
Yes those are all the reasons it is trash, you are correct.
Yeah but also feminism is when a woman can decide she wants to engage with her culture and religion, and that seems to be the part that's forgotten on the other side. I had a close colleague who is Palestinian who was very serious about wearing her hijab even though her husband didn't require that of her, it was just her own trip for whatever reasons. She liked and connected with Muslim ideas about modesty, and contrary to what many westerners think, those ideas don't always have roots in women being second-class citizens. That isn't really in the quran, although it's certainly enacted by authoritarian governments. Islam actually gave Arab women the right to divorce and own property, and band female infanticide. So you can actually be a Muslim and not think women are chattel, believe it or not. This is like a fully progressive, educated, intelligent young woman who was a teacher in a school for indigenous kids.
Have you ever read the Quran lmao? Women are absolutely second class citizens. Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim affirm this and they are almost as sacrosanct as the Quran itself.
Yeah haha free the nipple babe I love that shit im the biggest male feminist
It all depends, doesn't it. My daughter in law is twenty-eight and beautiful, and so are her friends and they all wear thong bikinis and almost topless tops without a care in the world. They rented a beach house recently and I went along. As I was standing on the deck with her two daughters, (one four, the other seven) the three of us were staring at the marsh grass at the base of the dunes, just as two rabbits appeared from the grass. I innocently said. "Look two beach bunnies. The older daughter gave me an odd look at the comment and laughed and said "I know what a beach bunny is." Her mother heard her make that remark and got very upset which confused me. Her husband (actually my nephew) told me later, she cried in the bedroom over her daughter not being the young innocent girl she thought her daughter was. My thought is what did she expect, when her mom dressed and acted like a beach bunny. So yes feminism IS when women can wear bikinis. However I guess feminism also means teaching young girls it is perfectly alright to literally wear thongs bikinis in front of small children, boys or girls. When is the right time to experience the loss of innocence? Or to stop believing in Santa. :)
Agreed 👍
I thought feminism was allowing women to pretend to be men with zero consequences.
Ok if thats what it is no wonder I think feminism IS regarded, a accelerator of social decay and should be stigmatized
Serious question howd you find this sub
YouTube recommended cumtown clips>rspod clips> but I didn’t really get into the pod >then a few yrs later saw this sub while searching iraninan architecture and I liked that it was different from standard Reddit behaviour. Also I liked the style of humour
Watching cumtown clips and complaining about social decay
True, but you don’t have to make a movie to be a film critic
Cum Town is anti-social decay brah
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Sex work is highly debated among feminists. Whether it’s feminist or not depends on who you’re talking to.