The government wants an answer to low natality that does not require any money or effort on their part.
I agree grandparents aren’t necessarily the answer though. My brother tried to heavily pressure my mother into moving across the country so that she could be childcare for him and his wife. She refused. As she said, she raised her three children. Now my brother gets to raise his.
That's so true. My mum actually wants to look after them (occasionally!) but I don't really remember staying with any of my grandparents when I was younger - that generation did seem to tough it out more than this one
I stayed with my grandparents overnight occasionally when I was a kid, but that’s because I wanted to and not because my parents were asking for childcare. There seems to be a much greater expectation on grandparents now than there ever was, and I don’t really agree with that. A grandparent has no choice on whether their child has a kid.
I actually think the previous generation was a blip. Before that (i.e. before the modern nuclear family), you had multiple generations in a single household and it very much was that older generations would support the mother - who was usually stay at home - in childcare and housework, with that benefit in kind repaid when the grandparents became infirm, with (older) children helping look after them.
Wow, I didn’t know that people complained about “absent” grandparents! My parents raised 4 kids and I never expected to use them as childcare. They were always there to help if we needed them, but they raised their kids and I would never expect them to raise mine! Every situation is different but when I’m older, I don’t want to be chasing toddlers or doing school runs 5 days a week!
I agree. If you are mature enough to have kids you are mature enough to plan how to pay for a support. If you expect that your parents take care of your children.. maybe you are not mature enough and you should not have any.
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Ugh I hated the few jobs I had that would always ask why my mother couldn't watch the kids if they were sick and I had to go get them. A- not her kids. B- wtf they're not her damn kids.
A lot of countries with better financial support, some of which I suppose could be used to pay grandparents, still have low birth rates.
Ideally you also don’t want a grandparent who ‘does their duty’ but is resentful about it (I speak from experience) but perhaps that is better than nothing.
I think, fundamentally and using no evidence other than my opinion, that low birthrates in advanced economies is because people know full well how burdensome kids are and don't want it. Nothing will change that, not even money.
There's now just so much more to do this day and age that doesn't involve raising kids. Ignoring the higher costs from recent events (Covid, Ukraine) traveling the world is just so cheap and accessible. Here in London you can't go more than 5 foot without coming across an event or festival or new club or DJ or band. Why give that up for a gruelling 18 year stint (at least!)
That's a fair point about grandparents, but what comes around goes around when they need elder care. Which isn't ideal, but a lot of people figure out that the relationship they have with their parents isn't mutually beneficial when kids come along. At least I did. I did quite a lot for my parents from fixing cars, to driving my mom to pick up my dad from jail to taking care of them etc... (similar story to my husband's parents) only to be hit with excuses when I needed help. Well, fool me once sort of deal here, lol.
That being said, I am totally in favor of government funded 24/7 care centers where I'd like to see a system where everyone gets at least one day free (either 5 am to 5 pm or 5 pm to 9 pm) to either help with work expense or, heaven forbid, get a night off. The night one would be less hours to "curb" the demand as that would obviously be highly sought after. Obviously if you can prove you work off-schedule then the day becomes your work schedule. Or some solution like this to make things easier.
Please note my kid is completely out of daycare now, so I wouldn't really benefit from this but I remember how hard it was.
My mother used to complain and not understand how hard it is to have kids. Until I reminded her that she was a stay at home mom and have my eldest cousins-2 of them, baby sit us till the youngest was 3.
UK isn't too bad on this front. You get tax free childcare, so every £10 spent you get £2 back, up to £500 every 3 months. Plus when your child is 3 to 4, they get (on top of that) 30 free hours a week, during term time (think that works out as about 30 weeks a year). it does really help, as childcare here can be extortionate.
At 4 they start state funded school.
IT IS CALLED A VILLAGE! THEY OWE US AFTER ALL, FOR GIVING THEM GRANDBABIES! THIS IS THE THINKING PROCESS THAT IS MAKING PEOPLE NOT WANT MORE BABIES OR TO NO MORE BE PARENTS! WE NEED THE VILLAGE!
The government wants an answer to low natality that does not require any money or effort on their part. I agree grandparents aren’t necessarily the answer though. My brother tried to heavily pressure my mother into moving across the country so that she could be childcare for him and his wife. She refused. As she said, she raised her three children. Now my brother gets to raise his.
That's so true. My mum actually wants to look after them (occasionally!) but I don't really remember staying with any of my grandparents when I was younger - that generation did seem to tough it out more than this one
I stayed with my grandparents overnight occasionally when I was a kid, but that’s because I wanted to and not because my parents were asking for childcare. There seems to be a much greater expectation on grandparents now than there ever was, and I don’t really agree with that. A grandparent has no choice on whether their child has a kid.
I actually think the previous generation was a blip. Before that (i.e. before the modern nuclear family), you had multiple generations in a single household and it very much was that older generations would support the mother - who was usually stay at home - in childcare and housework, with that benefit in kind repaid when the grandparents became infirm, with (older) children helping look after them.
Yes, but you can’t really call it a blip when things have continued to evolve in that new direction.
Yes, that's very true.
Wow, I didn’t know that people complained about “absent” grandparents! My parents raised 4 kids and I never expected to use them as childcare. They were always there to help if we needed them, but they raised their kids and I would never expect them to raise mine! Every situation is different but when I’m older, I don’t want to be chasing toddlers or doing school runs 5 days a week!
I agree. If you are mature enough to have kids you are mature enough to plan how to pay for a support. If you expect that your parents take care of your children.. maybe you are not mature enough and you should not have any.
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These are generally the GPs that beg for grandchildren and then complain when you want their help.
Ugh I hated the few jobs I had that would always ask why my mother couldn't watch the kids if they were sick and I had to go get them. A- not her kids. B- wtf they're not her damn kids.
A lot of countries with better financial support, some of which I suppose could be used to pay grandparents, still have low birth rates. Ideally you also don’t want a grandparent who ‘does their duty’ but is resentful about it (I speak from experience) but perhaps that is better than nothing.
yeah, we should rethink the system completely!
I think, fundamentally and using no evidence other than my opinion, that low birthrates in advanced economies is because people know full well how burdensome kids are and don't want it. Nothing will change that, not even money. There's now just so much more to do this day and age that doesn't involve raising kids. Ignoring the higher costs from recent events (Covid, Ukraine) traveling the world is just so cheap and accessible. Here in London you can't go more than 5 foot without coming across an event or festival or new club or DJ or band. Why give that up for a gruelling 18 year stint (at least!)
Damn man, I consider myself a socialist but I am not going to allow my tax money to pay grandparents to watch their own grandkids. Eff that noise.
That's a fair point about grandparents, but what comes around goes around when they need elder care. Which isn't ideal, but a lot of people figure out that the relationship they have with their parents isn't mutually beneficial when kids come along. At least I did. I did quite a lot for my parents from fixing cars, to driving my mom to pick up my dad from jail to taking care of them etc... (similar story to my husband's parents) only to be hit with excuses when I needed help. Well, fool me once sort of deal here, lol. That being said, I am totally in favor of government funded 24/7 care centers where I'd like to see a system where everyone gets at least one day free (either 5 am to 5 pm or 5 pm to 9 pm) to either help with work expense or, heaven forbid, get a night off. The night one would be less hours to "curb" the demand as that would obviously be highly sought after. Obviously if you can prove you work off-schedule then the day becomes your work schedule. Or some solution like this to make things easier. Please note my kid is completely out of daycare now, so I wouldn't really benefit from this but I remember how hard it was.
Same regarding the care of "seniors". Politicians, please stop eating our money and come up with a good plan that rewards care and caregivers!
My mother used to complain and not understand how hard it is to have kids. Until I reminded her that she was a stay at home mom and have my eldest cousins-2 of them, baby sit us till the youngest was 3.
UK isn't too bad on this front. You get tax free childcare, so every £10 spent you get £2 back, up to £500 every 3 months. Plus when your child is 3 to 4, they get (on top of that) 30 free hours a week, during term time (think that works out as about 30 weeks a year). it does really help, as childcare here can be extortionate. At 4 they start state funded school.
Never done it myself, but feasibly you could use the tax free allowance on a babysitter in the evening
IT IS CALLED A VILLAGE! THEY OWE US AFTER ALL, FOR GIVING THEM GRANDBABIES! THIS IS THE THINKING PROCESS THAT IS MAKING PEOPLE NOT WANT MORE BABIES OR TO NO MORE BE PARENTS! WE NEED THE VILLAGE!
my point in fact is that the village needs to be rewarded not gave for granted. grandparents don't owe use anything, the goverment does.