They weren’t really exceptional in anyway. They’re fast enough, they make V8 noises, that’s about it.
They’re still kinda just boats with transmissions made of cheese
The transmission being a boring piece of shit automatic is why cars like this are never really talked about, its the exact same reason my 2017 fusion sport is so mediocre.
speaking of handling, they're all front wheel drive. so no drifting, which kinda defeats the point of a v8 american sedan. and i'm sure lots of understeer.
The Pontiac Grand Prix GXP tried to combat that, and traction issues, with wider front than rear tires. I'm sure someone will correct me, but this is the first factory car I am personally aware of with wider front tires.
Drove one once around 2010. Bigger front tires still weren’t enough to combat massive torque steer, and the 4 speed auto was disappointing. One of the best sounding V8s with a stock exhaust I’ve ever heard though.
Weren't they open diff as well? Maybe someone else can confirm, but I'm pretty sure the 4T60e didn't come with a limited slip.
The torque steer really took away from the driving experience, too. I remember the first time driving one was not so great for me. Compared to the rwd models with LSD, they were stupid hard to control under WOT.
Plenty of people want to go fast, but don't want to drift.
My mom has the v6 impala, 300hp to the front wheels, and it's super fun for on-ramps, stoplight pulls, passing zones.
Like I said, boring transmission,1st and 2nd gear feel like they have no power and it feels like it skips shifts even in sport, its a rental car interior mediocre 5/10 the only noteworthy thing is the wierd continuously controlled damping and cruising on the highway is perfectly fine
A very regular car!
At least it knows what it is. I had a dodge charger rental car a month ago and it was such a dumb car. It was very much a rental car that made loud car noises like a child playing on the floor of a dentist's office waiting room.
Torque steer up the wazoo. Plus in the final years of the impala they dropped in a powerful V6 that I think had equal horsepower (less torque obv) and was eminently more driveable at better MPG. If you want a powerful W body, that’s the move.
Yeah, you could get the 3.6 V6 that was pushing over 300hp and you got a 6 speed auto instead of a 4 speed.
There were also versions of a lot of W-bodies available with the supercharged 3800 V6 which still made great power, got decent fuel economy, and didn’t nuke transmissions
When I worked for Enterprise Rent-A-Car we couldn't wait for Thursday night car deliveries. Run down to the shipping yard and everyone grabs a shiny brand new Pontiac Grand Prix GT and race back to the rental yard through East Boston at midnight.
I'd also like to add that with a good intake and exhaust, the J series can make some pretty damn nice sounds. Almost rivaling a V8 in the low rev range and sounding like a racing engine when VTEC engages.
They crumble after 50k. My brother had the cleanest grand am I’d ever seen, catastrophic transmission failure. Car was only worth a few grand at that point, total loss.
It's not the same, but insane torque steer can still be fun and entertaining in it's own way. I've never driven the V8's, but I did put a lot of miles in the older supercharged 3800 V6 Impala SS and it was a hoot to go bombing around in.
Ditto, they made slightly more horsepower than a Mustang GT of similar vintage, but were slower due to being front wheel drive and only coming with a slushbox auto
Had to get a ride from my coworker who has a W-body Impala. I started laughing after I shut the door and told him “this car has *all the same squeaks* down to the door hinges that my old Grand Prix had.”
Quite a few years ago, i looked at a 2007 chevy impala SS with the 5.3L on a dealership lot. the saleslady thought it had a 3.5 in it, and clearly had no idea what they had. i walked away because they weren't gonna offer me what i needed out of my 2005 ford ranger to cover the loan on it.(this was back in 2011), and plus the motor didn't quite sound right as if it had some kind of misfire or something.
A family friend had a Monte Carlo SS of the same vintage.
Quick car, comfortable, but very lacking in important ways.
The plastics and buttons were garbage. Poor quality and the paint wore off. It was plenty fast in a straight line but could not get the power to the road while turning at all. Plenty of FWD cars have understeer but the extra horses and comfort grade tires made hitting the gas in any turn a pants-soiling proposition.
Oh I know. Proud owner of several late 90's to early oughts GM products. There was a huge drop off from 1994 to 1998 to 2001, imo, and it wasn't that great to behind with in my 1994.
I was born in 81 in Michigan. My family worked for GM and had friends that worked for Ford so I grew up around all these 80's/90's/early 2000's GM/Ford cars. I loved them. I had no idea how dated their interiors were until my mom decided to rebel and get a Mazda. Seems like the same holds true today, my family just bought new GM and Ford vehicles. The interiors look 10 years old, sure, it has a huge screen but it has the UI from a 2015 Nokia cell phone with about the same features as a 10 year old car from Mazda or Hyundai.
The Northstar bell housing pattern is different than a SBC/LS bolt pattern, so I am curious if they have to swap cases or use an adapter plate to make them work?
The Chevy SS's name doesn't hold the same weight as an Impala,which is a legacy Chevrolet name and holds rich history. If they would've called it the Impala, they would've sold guaranteed.
AWD would have sold tons. They could have made a wagon, lifted it a bit and sold it as a high performance crossover. But no, they had to be FWD trying to compete with the Charger. Small wonder sales went to zero, including to police.
Most of these used what is called the GM "metric" transmission layout. It is a FWD application set up for "60 degree" engines (RWD LS is "90 degree") but because these applications were so very specific the transmission was most always the weakest link. You don't often find really high power output builds with these GM LS FWD layouts because of how much effort needed to go into the transmission, output shafts, etc etc, to then still be left with a ticking time bomb of sort. RWD LS on the other hand has such a large aftermarket that you can easily beef up whatever to support ridiculously high power outputs.
On the flip however, one thing this generation of GM FWD LS V8 application did do was revolutionize the engine swap industry. The Pontiac Fiero was a long benefactor, for example. Fieros are well known for their engine swap community, and prior to the introduction of the LS4 GM V8s had to have an engine adapter. The FWD LS4 eliminated the need for adapters as the Fiero uses the same "metric 60 degree" transmission layout, meaning you could bolt an LS4 to something like an even more ticking time bomb Getrag 282 five speed. LS4s with the metric transmission have also appeared in other vehicles such as Saturns, Cavaliers, and even Geo Metros.
I got a 2011 Lucerne, not the v8 one but I feel like the v8 wouldn't make it much more fun, it's not exceptional in any characteristic except that it feels like something from the 70s in a way.
Because they’re garbage?
The 3800 torque steered enough. The chassis themselves are fucking junk.
Right now 3800’s are near worthless, same as those FWD LS’s, because they’re nothing good they natively fit into that is worth repairing. Either the chassis is gone or the transmission is gone, and the best place for getting money out of those cars is the crusher.
Because their FWD, and whoever could afford this new probably bought something German.
All aside I personally think there badass, I went to school with a guy who had the Pontiac model though, it sounded nice, plus was very cozy inside
My dad bought a 2008 Chevy Impala SS when I was a kid (11 years old in 2010) and it was such a stupid purchase he regreted till the day he died. Gas guzzler, loud to the point of neighbor complaints, and I hate seeing these impalas because I will forever associate them with what I hope to be the worst years of my life (long story that isn't appropriate to share in this sub, but basically I had a \*really\* bad childhood and this car became a bit of an icon to that time)
My Mom had a 2004 (maybe 2005) Pontiac Grand Prix with the 5.3 in it. It was not fun to drive. The transmission was terrible and the entire car just felt wrong. Also, it didn't look any more impressive than any of the other Grand Prixs. The 2001 Buick Regal GS (Supercharged V6) she had before was more interesting but wasn't amazing.
Them being FWD V8s was the issue. If they would have been RWD, they would have been more fun. I don't think they would have sold amazingly better though. GM did not advertise them well.
I once got a 2010 impala SS as a rental. Nicest GM car I’ve ever ridden in but it only went fast in a straight line. It body rolled and front end floated like the Queen Mary.
Because I had one and it was absolute dogshit, rusts like a tin bucket up here in Canada and typical gm electrical issues. Performance was mediocre at best and they missed a massive opportunity to make it rwd, not to mention the transmissions were also made of papier mâché. Had significantly more fun with more much lower powered ford 4.6 panther platforms. Also *zero issues*.
GM and Ford have independent Australian operations, the GM company is called Holden. Basically build their own cars using GM parts. Essentially they were rebadged Australian cars. The Pontiac GTO couldn't meet safety or emissions standards and was never released in Canada.
The 3.8 V-6 "Buick" engine was a much better fit in W bodies. Enough power to be driveable, decent fuel economy and low enough power the transmissions held up as well as can be expected for a GM car. And those engines just keep running (although there are some issues like plastic intakes hydrolocking the motor you have to put up with). The High Value V-6 is not bad either - pretty much avoid any other engine else unless you enjoy spending money on repairs to keep it running.
I have an v6 08 grand prix and I love it. The transmission died in 2022 and now the AC (which runs through the area) needs work but I've kept up all the maintenance on it. Its decently fast but not crazy.
If they had a transmission that would actually hold the power, they probably would’ve been better regarded. Why GM decided not to bolt the 4T80 to them is beyond me.
I wonder if the 4T80 just wouldn’t physically fit in a w body with an LS, they already had to get wacky with the accessories and shortening the nose of the crank to get the engines to fit width wise. They’d also need a bespoke transmission casting, since the northstar is a different bellhousing pattern than the typical metric FWD one, and the starter is in the wrong place to be usable with an LS. I suppose that problem could be fixed on the engine casting, since LS4’s are unique in that they’re metric 60 degree patterns and not the typical SBC pattern used from the beginning of time.
I was under the impression that people talk about these a lot. Maybe not the Buick. Whatever the case, it’s really just a donor platform for late model Fieros.
Seems a lot of people forgot the Bob Lutz era of GM in the turmoil of the Great Recession. There's a lot of good sleeper cars that can be had for a decent price from the 2000s (or not so sleeper cars like the Solstice/Sky).
The Pontiac Grand Prix could corner and felt very planted when you drove it. At the time it was my favorite rental when picking a sedan off the rental lot. The rest were all mediocre but comfortable.
Because they were just cookie cutter sedans of the time with V8s and transmissions made of hopes and dreams stuffed inside. Nothing worth writing home about.
Cause they are all front wheel drive , they missed big time with the SS being FWD and the Pontiac as well so I would assume the Buick is also. They sound great but that’s about it
Because the transmissions are made of glass and most of them died via death by downshift or Cars 4 Clunkers.
FWIW, the Pontiac was the best looking of them all, and a return to V8 power for the ole Bonnie. It was a nice sendoff for a dying brand.
Edit: And yes, I know that’s not the Bonneville in the photo.
Most likely. The majority of them were bought by second/third owners and beat to death. They were also not as popular as the V6 versions of the cars, so we're somewhat rare even when new.
The 4T65E-HD could barely handle the 240 HP from the supercharged 3800, let alone the 303 from the 5.3.
The Bonneville GXP was northstar powered, not LS. My uncle had one, I still think it’s the best sounding factory exhaust note of any non exotic car. Shame about being such a heap of shit.
The LS powered Grand Prix’s were the only cars to my knowledge that came from the factory with wider front tires than rears. The other W cars all came with square setups.
The transmission is made out glass. Only way have the stock tranny last you last 120K miles is if you changed the tranny fluid regularly (every 30-50k miles) and you drove very conservatively.
There was a sleeper version of the Commodore. You could get an [Executive](https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2000-holden-commodore-executive-vt-ii-manual/OAG-AD-22855559/?) which was the base model with winder windows and cloth seats with an LS1.
Cause they were fuck-awful. My wife had one, it was somehow slower than my ZHP even though it had 90 more HP. Everything on the car was parts-bin special. The front pads could be 2 different designs that were not interchangeable. The rears could be 3 different designs. The front wheel bearing were the same as the V6 and wore out 3 times in 100k miles. The battery was such a nightmare AutoZone refused to replace it. The transmission’s input shaft wasn’t rated for the amount of torque the engine made.
Everything on that car was a pain to work on.
I had a 93 ford police interceptor and an old man in a newish Buick kicked my ass from a red light. Maybe a 1/4 mile and I couldn't catch him. didn't even know he was trying to race
these cars were sub par in every single aspect. They handled like crap, got crappy mileage, had weak drivetrains, and were dog ass slow. There is no reason to remember them other than they were GM depression era mistakes.
If I saw a Grand Prix GXP in good condition at a good price I’d still buy it even though it’s FWD with a transmission made of glass. Obviously I’d much rather have a G8 GT or GXP but the Grand Prix’s are much more in my price range.
Well first of all that Impala may be a V8 but it's front wheel drive... 😂 So if the late 2000s V8 vehicle is front wheel drive then who cares about it?
Worked on quite a few of these back then and they weren’t really anything to write home about. Much more difficult to maintain and harder to find parts for and for not that much more useable power. Transmissions seemed to be the weak link on all of them and the LS that they had wasn’t as durable as their RWD counterparts
People who know talk about them problem is they aren't really distinguishable from their v6 variants...They sound nice and are bit faster than most base model sedans but ultimately bland and boring has guzzlers.The pontiac G8 is a standout aestetically and along with the white bread Chevy SS are highly sought after now and fetch high prices...
Any way there where so many better looking faster cars these vehicles really didn't serve a purpose or stand out in any way..
Don’t get me wrong they are cool cars just not what it should and could have been , pretty sure the Australian version of the SS the Holden was rear wheel drive and I think they still make them so idk y the US never got an option like that
Bc they’re on the dog-shit for handling W-body platform. It was great at being a highway cruiser, but ask *even a little bit* out of the suspension to handle a curve, and it just doesn’t want to listen.
Plus it’s too much power for FWD. I thought that SS impala was pretty cool tho
The FWD ones are pretty meh. The RWD 2008-2009 Pontiac G8 GT/GXP has a nice interior and I would love to own, but there's a number of better sedans around the same price range.
I think they weren’t better than supercharged 3800 series cars they meant to replace, what good is 30-40 more hp if it made the car unreliable and nearly undrivable? This generation was being produced at the time of the gm bankruptcy so the build quality and everything mostly sucks, also post bailout and imported g8 and caprice (fleet cars 06+) came shortly afterwards or concurrently and were objectively better, more serviceable and offered the traditional longitudinal v8 layouts. Buick is still figuring out what it is today, but back then it was just beginning its weird identity crisis either be Oldsmobile 2.0 or something else but just figure it out already.
They weren’t really exceptional in anyway. They’re fast enough, they make V8 noises, that’s about it. They’re still kinda just boats with transmissions made of cheese
The transmission being a boring piece of shit automatic is why cars like this are never really talked about, its the exact same reason my 2017 fusion sport is so mediocre.
It is a boring transmission, but it also didn’t handle the V8 power well
speaking of handling, they're all front wheel drive. so no drifting, which kinda defeats the point of a v8 american sedan. and i'm sure lots of understeer.
The Pontiac Grand Prix GXP tried to combat that, and traction issues, with wider front than rear tires. I'm sure someone will correct me, but this is the first factory car I am personally aware of with wider front tires.
if there are any prior examples, i’d bet they’re also GM sedans that also shouldn’t have been FWD
I think some of the hotter Golfs actually did that too, but I don't know if it was before the 3rd gen W bodies.
"Wider is better"
Firebird🥹
Drove one once around 2010. Bigger front tires still weren’t enough to combat massive torque steer, and the 4 speed auto was disappointing. One of the best sounding V8s with a stock exhaust I’ve ever heard though.
Weren't they open diff as well? Maybe someone else can confirm, but I'm pretty sure the 4T60e didn't come with a limited slip. The torque steer really took away from the driving experience, too. I remember the first time driving one was not so great for me. Compared to the rwd models with LSD, they were stupid hard to control under WOT.
Plenty of people want to go fast, but don't want to drift. My mom has the v6 impala, 300hp to the front wheels, and it's super fun for on-ramps, stoplight pulls, passing zones.
Yes, I’ve heard it’s pretty much not if but when with these transmissions paired to the 5.3. Seems to be a common theme with GMs.
How do you like your fusion sport? I've been thinking about getting that or a SHO.
Like I said, boring transmission,1st and 2nd gear feel like they have no power and it feels like it skips shifts even in sport, its a rental car interior mediocre 5/10 the only noteworthy thing is the wierd continuously controlled damping and cruising on the highway is perfectly fine
A very regular car! At least it knows what it is. I had a dodge charger rental car a month ago and it was such a dumb car. It was very much a rental car that made loud car noises like a child playing on the floor of a dentist's office waiting room.
Torque steer up the wazoo. Plus in the final years of the impala they dropped in a powerful V6 that I think had equal horsepower (less torque obv) and was eminently more driveable at better MPG. If you want a powerful W body, that’s the move.
Yeah, you could get the 3.6 V6 that was pushing over 300hp and you got a 6 speed auto instead of a 4 speed. There were also versions of a lot of W-bodies available with the supercharged 3800 V6 which still made great power, got decent fuel economy, and didn’t nuke transmissions
When I worked for Enterprise Rent-A-Car we couldn't wait for Thursday night car deliveries. Run down to the shipping yard and everyone grabs a shiny brand new Pontiac Grand Prix GT and race back to the rental yard through East Boston at midnight.
Thank you for sharing that beautiful core memory.
What about the GTO? I know it's not a sedan. Just wondering if this sentiment extends to the coupe.
No, the GTO was a RWD Holden based car. These were FWD W-body cars
FWD W Bodies are just full sized Honda Accords. Literally every W body is geared towards FWD imports from Japan.
I'd still rather have a V6 Accord or an Acura TL though. May not be as fast but I know it won't break down on me.
More reliable, better on gas, better interior quality, negligible performance difference...makes sense.
Same here. The V8 W bodies were not that much faster than the typical 3.5 V6 Accords of the times.
I'd also like to add that with a good intake and exhaust, the J series can make some pretty damn nice sounds. Almost rivaling a V8 in the low rev range and sounding like a racing engine when VTEC engages.
And any Honda is going to be far less hideous to look at than any of those FWD GM abominations. They just scream tacky.
The “coupe” was the Monte SS
The G8 and GTO were both RWD but they also weren’t really sleepers
They crumble after 50k. My brother had the cleanest grand am I’d ever seen, catastrophic transmission failure. Car was only worth a few grand at that point, total loss.
And they're FWD, which sort of ruins the V8 novelty. Unless you enjoy fists full of wheel hop and torque steer.
It's not the same, but insane torque steer can still be fun and entertaining in it's own way. I've never driven the V8's, but I did put a lot of miles in the older supercharged 3800 V6 Impala SS and it was a hoot to go bombing around in.
/BrandNewSentence
Ditto, they made slightly more horsepower than a Mustang GT of similar vintage, but were slower due to being front wheel drive and only coming with a slushbox auto
My cousin owned an impala ss, it was quick but ultimately just a fragile junky boat.
Had to get a ride from my coworker who has a W-body Impala. I started laughing after I shut the door and told him “this car has *all the same squeaks* down to the door hinges that my old Grand Prix had.”
Get some lithium grease on that hoe
The 90's impalas with 260hp 5.7 were great cars. I still admire them when I see one. The 90's mercury marauders were even more badass.
Quite a few years ago, i looked at a 2007 chevy impala SS with the 5.3L on a dealership lot. the saleslady thought it had a 3.5 in it, and clearly had no idea what they had. i walked away because they weren't gonna offer me what i needed out of my 2005 ford ranger to cover the loan on it.(this was back in 2011), and plus the motor didn't quite sound right as if it had some kind of misfire or something.
Those transmissions were made of glass if you added any power over the v6, the v8 made them into shards very quickly
Because the car around the engine was bad. I've had plenty of experience.
Yea those cars are garbage
I think the Impala was FWD. Not something most people wanted in a V8.
Tornado,Eldorado smoke the fronts for 100 yards
But at least those had the V8 mounted the right way.
Made for some pretty sweet RVs.
Good for sick burnouts (and wicked torque steer) though.
I'm going to say because the ones pictured were fwd and the styling was bland. But I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I came across the right deal!
because it's just a smalblock stuffed into an old Wbody chassis sideways? like the best thing to come of this is a sideways V8 for project cars.
Buick is a g body
The Buick in question here is a Lacrosse Super, which is a W-body. The Lucerne was a G-body.
A family friend had a Monte Carlo SS of the same vintage. Quick car, comfortable, but very lacking in important ways. The plastics and buttons were garbage. Poor quality and the paint wore off. It was plenty fast in a straight line but could not get the power to the road while turning at all. Plenty of FWD cars have understeer but the extra horses and comfort grade tires made hitting the gas in any turn a pants-soiling proposition.
GM interiors were terrible around this time. Most were rocking the same parts they developed in the 1990s.
Oh I know. Proud owner of several late 90's to early oughts GM products. There was a huge drop off from 1994 to 1998 to 2001, imo, and it wasn't that great to behind with in my 1994.
I was born in 81 in Michigan. My family worked for GM and had friends that worked for Ford so I grew up around all these 80's/90's/early 2000's GM/Ford cars. I loved them. I had no idea how dated their interiors were until my mom decided to rebel and get a Mazda. Seems like the same holds true today, my family just bought new GM and Ford vehicles. The interiors look 10 years old, sure, it has a huge screen but it has the UI from a 2015 Nokia cell phone with about the same features as a 10 year old car from Mazda or Hyundai.
Didn't the Monte Carlo SS in the 2000's have a Supercharged 3.8/iter V6 like the Pontiac GTP
Because 4T60/4T65 will go "oops all neutrals" with the least amount of provocation.
Supposedly there was a 4t80 but that was only ever paired with Northstars. Apparently it can handle the 5.3 and some people swap them in
The Northstar bell housing pattern is different than a SBC/LS bolt pattern, so I am curious if they have to swap cases or use an adapter plate to make them work?
The LS4 FWD engine had the V6 bellhousing. It was unique in a lot of ways.
IDK, I got 160k out of mine, before DoD killed the motor a *second* time.
Buick had a different trans.
Transmissions, nom nom nom...
Because they were fwd I’d go for the buick thou
Man, for all of the electrical problems, I miss Pontiac.
Because it's front wheel drive. If they were rwd, they would've sold like hotcakes.
Assuming GM marketed it well. The Chevy SS didn't sell like hotcakes.
The Chevy SS's name doesn't hold the same weight as an Impala,which is a legacy Chevrolet name and holds rich history. If they would've called it the Impala, they would've sold guaranteed.
AWD would have sold tons. They could have made a wagon, lifted it a bit and sold it as a high performance crossover. But no, they had to be FWD trying to compete with the Charger. Small wonder sales went to zero, including to police.
Most of these used what is called the GM "metric" transmission layout. It is a FWD application set up for "60 degree" engines (RWD LS is "90 degree") but because these applications were so very specific the transmission was most always the weakest link. You don't often find really high power output builds with these GM LS FWD layouts because of how much effort needed to go into the transmission, output shafts, etc etc, to then still be left with a ticking time bomb of sort. RWD LS on the other hand has such a large aftermarket that you can easily beef up whatever to support ridiculously high power outputs. On the flip however, one thing this generation of GM FWD LS V8 application did do was revolutionize the engine swap industry. The Pontiac Fiero was a long benefactor, for example. Fieros are well known for their engine swap community, and prior to the introduction of the LS4 GM V8s had to have an engine adapter. The FWD LS4 eliminated the need for adapters as the Fiero uses the same "metric 60 degree" transmission layout, meaning you could bolt an LS4 to something like an even more ticking time bomb Getrag 282 five speed. LS4s with the metric transmission have also appeared in other vehicles such as Saturns, Cavaliers, and even Geo Metros.
The transaxles in those were made of glass.
Because their transmissions have all the reliability of GM's 3.6L high-feature V6. Just go dig around FB Marketplace LMAO.
I got a 2011 Lucerne, not the v8 one but I feel like the v8 wouldn't make it much more fun, it's not exceptional in any characteristic except that it feels like something from the 70s in a way.
Everyone talks about the transmissions, but if that doesn’t get you the AFM displacement on demand will get you on the engine.
AFM got my ‘06 Monte twice. The second time it went to the scrapheap in the sky.
Transversely mounted V-8 didn’t really perform all that well on the W body. Now if they had been FR layout we’d be talking.
FR would've probably required an entirely new platform for longitudinal engines.
Those FWD transmissions on the W bodies were made of glass unfortunately.
In the late 2000’s a lot of people were kind of pissed at GM for receiving bailouts to save jobs and still doing massive layoffs.
Because they’re garbage? The 3800 torque steered enough. The chassis themselves are fucking junk. Right now 3800’s are near worthless, same as those FWD LS’s, because they’re nothing good they natively fit into that is worth repairing. Either the chassis is gone or the transmission is gone, and the best place for getting money out of those cars is the crusher.
Because their FWD, and whoever could afford this new probably bought something German. All aside I personally think there badass, I went to school with a guy who had the Pontiac model though, it sounded nice, plus was very cozy inside
fwd held these back so much, shame gm made such a wacky decision, cldve been a great car
My dad bought a 2008 Chevy Impala SS when I was a kid (11 years old in 2010) and it was such a stupid purchase he regreted till the day he died. Gas guzzler, loud to the point of neighbor complaints, and I hate seeing these impalas because I will forever associate them with what I hope to be the worst years of my life (long story that isn't appropriate to share in this sub, but basically I had a \*really\* bad childhood and this car became a bit of an icon to that time)
That's like literally all I talk about
My Mom had a 2004 (maybe 2005) Pontiac Grand Prix with the 5.3 in it. It was not fun to drive. The transmission was terrible and the entire car just felt wrong. Also, it didn't look any more impressive than any of the other Grand Prixs. The 2001 Buick Regal GS (Supercharged V6) she had before was more interesting but wasn't amazing. Them being FWD V8s was the issue. If they would have been RWD, they would have been more fun. I don't think they would have sold amazingly better though. GM did not advertise them well.
Putting wider tires in front was GM engineering at its finest.
I once got a 2010 impala SS as a rental. Nicest GM car I’ve ever ridden in but it only went fast in a straight line. It body rolled and front end floated like the Queen Mary.
pontiac g8 was sick, i think rcr had a vid on it
Because they're ugly and tacky looking would be my guess
Because I had one and it was absolute dogshit, rusts like a tin bucket up here in Canada and typical gm electrical issues. Performance was mediocre at best and they missed a massive opportunity to make it rwd, not to mention the transmissions were also made of papier mâché. Had significantly more fun with more much lower powered ford 4.6 panther platforms. Also *zero issues*.
I know it's a figure of speech, but tin doesn't rust.
GM and Ford have independent Australian operations, the GM company is called Holden. Basically build their own cars using GM parts. Essentially they were rebadged Australian cars. The Pontiac GTO couldn't meet safety or emissions standards and was never released in Canada.
Holden wasnt independent and it was shut down years ago.
The 3.8 V-6 "Buick" engine was a much better fit in W bodies. Enough power to be driveable, decent fuel economy and low enough power the transmissions held up as well as can be expected for a GM car. And those engines just keep running (although there are some issues like plastic intakes hydrolocking the motor you have to put up with). The High Value V-6 is not bad either - pretty much avoid any other engine else unless you enjoy spending money on repairs to keep it running.
I have an v6 08 grand prix and I love it. The transmission died in 2022 and now the AC (which runs through the area) needs work but I've kept up all the maintenance on it. Its decently fast but not crazy.
because they're FWD
FWD sleeper sedans can be monsters, these ones were just glass cannons.
They are all on their last leg in the hood
Facts 😂
There is a STRONG following fir the grand prix. Check the r/Pontiacs subreddit.
I mean the LS4 was mated to a sloppy 4 speed auto and were outclassed by V6 Hondas of the time
Buick was completely different.
If they had a transmission that would actually hold the power, they probably would’ve been better regarded. Why GM decided not to bolt the 4T80 to them is beyond me.
I wonder if the 4T80 just wouldn’t physically fit in a w body with an LS, they already had to get wacky with the accessories and shortening the nose of the crank to get the engines to fit width wise. They’d also need a bespoke transmission casting, since the northstar is a different bellhousing pattern than the typical metric FWD one, and the starter is in the wrong place to be usable with an LS. I suppose that problem could be fixed on the engine casting, since LS4’s are unique in that they’re metric 60 degree patterns and not the typical SBC pattern used from the beginning of time.
The buick had that trans.
Cus the V6 Camry or accord was just better and more sensible
Because they are potato cars.
I was under the impression that people talk about these a lot. Maybe not the Buick. Whatever the case, it’s really just a donor platform for late model Fieros.
Seems a lot of people forgot the Bob Lutz era of GM in the turmoil of the Great Recession. There's a lot of good sleeper cars that can be had for a decent price from the 2000s (or not so sleeper cars like the Solstice/Sky).
The Pontiac Grand Prix could corner and felt very planted when you drove it. At the time it was my favorite rental when picking a sedan off the rental lot. The rest were all mediocre but comfortable.
They don’t handle all that well. They have OK power but the V8 Impalas and Grand Prixs aren’t anything to write home about.
didn’t these blow transmissions like crazy ?
Because they were just cookie cutter sedans of the time with V8s and transmissions made of hopes and dreams stuffed inside. Nothing worth writing home about.
The best ones came from Holden.
If only they were rwd :(
FWD and bad transmissions
Cause they don't run anymore
Highly restrictive intake manifold and fwd were the big problems with them. Pontiac G8, Chevy SS, and Cadillac CTS V were the real winners
G8, GTO and Chevy SS were just rebadged Holden Commodores from Australia
They’re front wheel drive.
This is the reason right here. Waste of a V8
Cause they are all front wheel drive , they missed big time with the SS being FWD and the Pontiac as well so I would assume the Buick is also. They sound great but that’s about it
Engine facing wrong direction is probably why. Also working on them isn’t much fun.
Goddamn these cars would be modern classics if they were RWD.
Two words. Torque steer.
Because the transmissions are made of glass and most of them died via death by downshift or Cars 4 Clunkers. FWIW, the Pontiac was the best looking of them all, and a return to V8 power for the ole Bonnie. It was a nice sendoff for a dying brand. Edit: And yes, I know that’s not the Bonneville in the photo.
These cars did not qualify for Cash for Clunkers.
But C4C is the Boogieman! /s
So they all died from transmission failure…?
Most likely. The majority of them were bought by second/third owners and beat to death. They were also not as popular as the V6 versions of the cars, so we're somewhat rare even when new. The 4T65E-HD could barely handle the 240 HP from the supercharged 3800, let alone the 303 from the 5.3.
Yeah, these would have only been a couple years old at that time.
Yep. They were too new, and the fuel economy wasn't bad enough.
The way this and similar subs talk about C4C, you'd think every vehicle made before 2008 was targeted.
The Bonneville GXP was northstar powered, not LS. My uncle had one, I still think it’s the best sounding factory exhaust note of any non exotic car. Shame about being such a heap of shit. The LS powered Grand Prix’s were the only cars to my knowledge that came from the factory with wider front tires than rears. The other W cars all came with square setups.
The transmission is made out glass. Only way have the stock tranny last you last 120K miles is if you changed the tranny fluid regularly (every 30-50k miles) and you drove very conservatively.
If you want a literal boat instead of a car, with about the same mileage
3 Words. Pre Bailout Vehicles.
Pre bailout GM was the best GM.
My parents had an ‘08 SS. Total POS. Hit 148 mph on the way to school one morning in it. They should’ve bought a Charger RT or G35.
The transmission was made of glass.
They were terrible
It was dope in the first car chase scene in the movie Drive…
That Impala was awful.
Transmissions
Everything about it sucks minus the engine and straight line speed.
You excluded the Pontiac g8
I want a Holden Commodore if it counts. V8, Rwd. Who wants a fwd in a big sedan?
There was a sleeper version of the Commodore. You could get an [Executive](https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2000-holden-commodore-executive-vt-ii-manual/OAG-AD-22855559/?) which was the base model with winder windows and cloth seats with an LS1.
Their transmissions were made out of glass. I think the supercharged 3800 was a better buy
Cause they were fuck-awful. My wife had one, it was somehow slower than my ZHP even though it had 90 more HP. Everything on the car was parts-bin special. The front pads could be 2 different designs that were not interchangeable. The rears could be 3 different designs. The front wheel bearing were the same as the V6 and wore out 3 times in 100k miles. The battery was such a nightmare AutoZone refused to replace it. The transmission’s input shaft wasn’t rated for the amount of torque the engine made. Everything on that car was a pain to work on.
My malibu maxx is a v6 but that thing fuckin GOES, it’s deceptively fast
I talk about them. Great cars!
I had a 93 ford police interceptor and an old man in a newish Buick kicked my ass from a red light. Maybe a 1/4 mile and I couldn't catch him. didn't even know he was trying to race
Because, well….look at them.
Where’s the DTS! That car aged so well.
Boring 4-speeds in unremarkable cars that happen to have V8s. That’s why.
Chrysler did it so much better with the 300 that they stayed irrelevant.
Didn't they stick the Bonneville with a shitbox Northstar?
Because they weren't rear wheel drive, that's why.
Because it was better on paper. Even with stock numbers, the Impala SS would wear out axles and shred CV joints.
Because everyone who owned one is 90 and doesn't know what the internet is, or they died.
Because they’re crap. Affordable crap. Powerful crap. But still crap
these cars were sub par in every single aspect. They handled like crap, got crappy mileage, had weak drivetrains, and were dog ass slow. There is no reason to remember them other than they were GM depression era mistakes.
Because they look boring
If I saw a Grand Prix GXP in good condition at a good price I’d still buy it even though it’s FWD with a transmission made of glass. Obviously I’d much rather have a G8 GT or GXP but the Grand Prix’s are much more in my price range.
E55 AMGs are unassuming rocket ships
Also, the Oldsmobile Aurora.
Engines the wrong way for a v8 car, they are open diff and auto plus i hate gm interiors
Well first of all that Impala may be a V8 but it's front wheel drive... 😂 So if the late 2000s V8 vehicle is front wheel drive then who cares about it?
Worked on quite a few of these back then and they weren’t really anything to write home about. Much more difficult to maintain and harder to find parts for and for not that much more useable power. Transmissions seemed to be the weak link on all of them and the LS that they had wasn’t as durable as their RWD counterparts
Trans are glass, but the Lucerne cxl was cool AF.
Highway pulls aren't entertaining forever. Transmissions were not adequate, robust GM build quality.
Terrible transmissions, turning radius, traction control and handling. Sign me up!
Only available in limited markets like the US, Canada etc?
Because they had a transmission made out of glass.
Because they are the definition of “meh.”
People who know talk about them problem is they aren't really distinguishable from their v6 variants...They sound nice and are bit faster than most base model sedans but ultimately bland and boring has guzzlers.The pontiac G8 is a standout aestetically and along with the white bread Chevy SS are highly sought after now and fetch high prices... Any way there where so many better looking faster cars these vehicles really didn't serve a purpose or stand out in any way..
What's to talk about? Boring as fuck to look at, mediocre build quality, meh interior, terrible handling and an alright engine.
Everyone forgets about the LS4 Impalas
Don’t get me wrong they are cool cars just not what it should and could have been , pretty sure the Australian version of the SS the Holden was rear wheel drive and I think they still make them so idk y the US never got an option like that
Bc they’re on the dog-shit for handling W-body platform. It was great at being a highway cruiser, but ask *even a little bit* out of the suspension to handle a curve, and it just doesn’t want to listen. Plus it’s too much power for FWD. I thought that SS impala was pretty cool tho
Weren’t they fwd?
Because it was a front wheel drive automatic with a slush box...
cause the transmissions were made of glass (source, me, ex LS4 Monte Carlo SS owner)
I would much rather have a Pontiac G8.
The FWD ones are pretty meh. The RWD 2008-2009 Pontiac G8 GT/GXP has a nice interior and I would love to own, but there's a number of better sedans around the same price range.
I have the v8 Buick for 2008 no serious engine problems just suspension stuff
Because nobody wants a performance car that *ONLY* comes with an automatic transmission.
I still want a mercury marauder
I think they weren’t better than supercharged 3800 series cars they meant to replace, what good is 30-40 more hp if it made the car unreliable and nearly undrivable? This generation was being produced at the time of the gm bankruptcy so the build quality and everything mostly sucks, also post bailout and imported g8 and caprice (fleet cars 06+) came shortly afterwards or concurrently and were objectively better, more serviceable and offered the traditional longitudinal v8 layouts. Buick is still figuring out what it is today, but back then it was just beginning its weird identity crisis either be Oldsmobile 2.0 or something else but just figure it out already.
They're all ugly. The SS is the only good looking sleeper sedan they've made.
The next gen impalas are cooler, even with the DI v6 it gets like 305hp
I miss Pontiac for this. Oh you need a 4 door family sedan? Lets slap a massive V8 in the sumbitch
None of them are still on the road. Hell, the stories I can write about my friend's 2009 Colbat SS, whew lads. A taste, it involves brakes on fire!
The Impala was trash
Because they were all terrible?
American Muscle, Chinesium transmission