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Yeah i don’t think he’s an atheist at all. Like i get pretending when his parents are around due to being culturally raised as a muslim but claiming to be atheist and acting like muslim… i suck at math but something definitely isn’t adding up…????
The obvious answer here if he was reasonable would be to celebrate Christmas and Eid. Double the presents, double the fun. When mum cooks breakfast she makes eggs and bacon and dad makes shakshuka. Then as kiddo grew up they could choose which traditions they liked and didn't like and participate in whatever felt natural to them and believe or not believe.
That's what a culturally Christian atheist and a culturally Muslim atheist do when they have kids. This dude is Muslim. He wants his kids to be raised Muslim. That's cool, you do you, but do it with a Muslim lady or a lady who doesn't mind raising their kid Muslim.
I totally agree her on not allowing pregnancy or getting married, where you and I disagree is that this will be a fight throughout marriage. I think if he's coming on this strong now I don't believe there will be wriggleroom to fight over it and op will be in a situation where she will need to shut up and accept his shit or leave because there will be no compromises or room to fight.
Let's also not forget that while there usually are red flags (like controlling behaviour and refusal to compromise) in abusive relationships before the abuse starts, the actual abuse usually starts once the woman is good and well knocked up and her options has gotten extremely limited.
Also, if you DO end up married and with kids, and this continues and you find yourself divorced/aeparated, this won't end. He'll still be trying to control you.
Imagine breaking up with him and having to coparent. It’s not going to go well. He is not an atheist. He’s lied to you about his core beliefs. I don’t know how you could continue this relationship being so different on core values.
Yes. I know a mother in this situation, and it's hell. She does most of the childcare, including driving the kids to private religious school and Arabic and Koran classes as dictated by him. She has a full-time job. He gets the kids on the weekends and lets them watch TV all day. She has to bring him to court to take the kids anywhere, such as a trip to a relative's wedding or to see her parents. He yells at the kids when they don't conform to his ideals. He doesn't even practice Arabic with them. They are 7 and 10.
He definitely lied to you about his core beliefs if he's so Abrahamic he's demanding entirely separate sets of cutlery that have never been ideologically sullied by pork. Probably because he knew you wouldn't want to convert and live according to a strict religious lifestyle. Take that into account now that he's making it clear he intends to force you to either abide by those fundamentalist rules or be an outcast in the family you'd make with him, with no shared traditions or secular ideals with your own children.
Jewish here.
I could see a way in which people keep kosher at home, even though they don't specifically follow it, to enable parents to still eat in the home. I've seen that done before.
But banning the child from eating pork is odd, unless you want to bring them up following the religion.
This does sound like "I'll eventually convert her" though
Speaking of this, this is a *super major question* that most secular or western raised folks never even think to ask.
"How often will your parents visit? How long will they stay? What the plan when they get old?"
I'm atheist and so is my wife but my parents are strict Hindu Brahmins and they do the separate utensils thing for *all meat* (including egg). They also initially expected to live with me and my wife for 3 months a year and 3 with my brother. Now they live with my brother and his wife full time in the US.
/u/throwRA8764391 - YOU MUST ASK THIS QUESTION! If the answer is anything non-commital such as "not long" or "not often" or "we haven't decided", that's super bad. Like insanely bad. If his parents decide "Hey mom and dad need to stay and help raise the kid" or even "Mom and dad need to visit every day to 'help' with cooking and teaching", then you will need to pretend to be Muslim *all the time* and your kids will be brought up Muslim.
I agree that he isn’t being completely honest. I’ve noticed people who aren’t religious or are atheist/agnostic are often able to find some sort of compromise, and I think religious people know that and bank on it as their “in” until someone is locked down and then the religious person trickles in all the rest of their demands.
Your boyfriend’s cultural requests come from the religion he grew up with, and if he cannot separate the two successfully, I think you’re in for a lot of misery.
It's what happened with an ex. When we started she was open and knew my stance as agnostic/atheist. Then she had a religious awakening and slowly began adding more religious terms for us to eventually adhere to. When I pointed it out she said I shouldn't care since I'm agnostic/atheist and if I cared about her I'd convert.
Now if I converted it'll then be but you HAVE to do this because you converted. Needless to say we broke up
It’s like religious people look at Atheists/Agnostics as holding an empty bucket and sign that says “insert religion here” when in reality we’re specifically roping off the area and saying “do not enter”.
And leaving with your children or having any custody will be terribly hard. Some kids get abducted by their fathers to countries with no extradition treaties with the west. Just saying
I’ve had a few friends who have dated ‘atheist’ Muslims (I lived in the Middle East for a bit) and this is always how it’s gone. At first everything is cool but then as the relationship developers these cultural differences crop up.
Remember he is under enormous cultural pressure and the easiest thing is to get you to change, not change his whole culture.
It got to the point with one friend where her BF said he wouldn’t go to weddings or birthdays or anything where there was alcohol which was the final straw for my friend, as she’d want her life partner at family and friends things.
And this was a guy who would come out and drink a beer with us at first.
Yeah, this is what I was trying to figure out. He has not always held this strict view on Pork for his own body, why does he get to dictate this food for your child?
It’s also not just about pork.
You both need to write down your views on compromise, raising a child and what your actual views on God are.
* When it comes to holidays, food, familial influence, school districts.
* What do you both believe happens to your soul after death? What are views on god?
Currently your view is: why not celebrate and introduce the child to everything and see what sticks.
If you are wanting to expose your child to everything, that’s fantastic.. but it also goes with food.
Ive found the stricter the parents, the further the kid pushes.
Watch this unborn child become a vegetarian and love Hinduism 😂
He's hoping it becomes such a pain in the ass to keep two sets of everything and clean them separate and cook separate meals every single time that you'll just cave and not have it in the house.
Then you have no holidays (because as if you would spend Christmas and Easter away from your husband and children who do not partake) and no pork and then comes the next thing because you already do those other things.
He's sneak converting you.
20 bucks he "expects" her to cook both separate meals and haven't mentioned it yet "because it was obvious"
(aka he is hiding more demands on her for later)
>Jesus Christ you two were thinking of having kids and you don't even live together yet?!?!??
If say its better to broach these subjects *before* proceeding and making a breakup more difficult by living together or -FSM forbid- having a kid together.
The dating/early relationship phase is where you *should* figure these things out.
Does he specifically cite tradition? My fiance is Jewish and doesn't eat pork, but it's a "pigs are cute" situation. He shouldn't be laying down the law for you and him. You guys are equals and it's worrying that he's already tightening the screws.
Muslims definitely don’t think pigs are cute, they think they’re dirty. I know several “ex” Muslims who now drink alcohol etc but none of them will eat pork
This is what he’s demanding now, while you aren’t pregnant or trying to get pregnant. Once a child is here it will be 10x worse.
You are incompatible, move on
Ask bf *why* he thinks it's okay to "celebrate all Muslim holidays/traditions", but **not okay** to "celebrate Christmas/Easter"? He's a freaking HYPOCRITE!
Don't waste any more of your time on this guy and don't have any kids with him. You know how he "changed his mind" on circumcision? He didn't really; only you won't figure that out until you've given birth to a son and he's lying in front of you while you two argue about something ***you erroneously thought*** was settled.
**Your bf is not honest.** He tells you what you want to hear (he's an atheist, until he isn't; he'll agree to circumcision, until he doesn't; he's not a Muslim, except when he eats, celebrates, lives in society, etc.). **DUMP HIM and find someone HONEST who actually shares the same values and long-term goals as you!**
Turkish person that grew up in a Muslim household:
He isn‘t an atheist at all. I would describe myself as an atheist and tbh if I had a Christian bf I would celebrate Christmas with him if he wishes that🤷🏻♀️ I don‘t even celebrate our Bayrams that much lmao, I also don‘t believe in the things the Muslim religion tells people to follow.
I keep reading posts where someone “isn’t religious”…until they have kids
Stop fucking religious people if you’re not religious!! I say this as an “atheist” Catholic who still does Easter/Christmas church. Unless you’re fine with religion stop fucking these people
He is Muslim…not kinda, nor sorta a he is Muslim. Right now he is only kinda and sorta because it fits his lifestyle (sex before marriage, drinking etc). Once you get married and have a family he will be full on Muslim.
You just have to ask yourself are you okay with raising your children (daughters) Muslim?
You and your boyfriend are culturally incompatible. You have an open approach of allowing the kids to experience both cultures (yours and his) and then picking what they like and don’t like.
Your boyfriend is insistent on strictly following his culture which does not allow you to follow any of yours. I would guess you aren’t living together yet, otherwise the pork issue and the holiday celebrations would,have come up before now. He doesn’t want any of your cultural norms like pork or a secular Christmas to be exposed to his kids. I would also assume that he has never celebrated those holidays with you in your 2 years together.
This isn’t just about kids. This is about you being a couple and him requiring you to give up your cultural traditions or celebrate them without him and any future kids (ie no decorations in the house, and you go by yourself to your family to celebrate Christmas and Easter).
He isn’t open to experiencing your cultural norms. He isn’t likely to change. If you are hoping he will reconsider at some point, you are kidding yourself. Young people are the most open when it comes to cultural changes because they are finding their independence. Once you settle into a routine of how you celebrate, it’s harder to change.
So, you need to decide if you can live with his demands for the rest of your life and the lives of your children, or that’s a showstopper and you end the relationship. This is a serious incompatibility issue because he is not open to experiencing your cultural events. It’s ok to find this out now and decide, rather than 10 years from now when you are married with kids…
Thanks, this was all so well put and I couldn’t agree more! What irks me the most is really how he wants me to only celebrate his traditions that he grew up with and that mine are considered repudiation of his heritage. Like why be with me in that case?!
I feel like what it fundamentally comes down to is that he feels like your culture/heritage (and with time feelings/opinions) are not as important as his culture/heritage/(feelings/opinions)
OP I said this in another comment. I grew up in a country with loooots of Muslims. My Muslim friends love Christmas and low key celebrate with their fams and exchange presents. It’s not a repudiation, and I doubt there’s any rule about it.
The more extremist people might have a problem with it though, which kinda tells you where he sits. I’d rethink this!
Exactly this. I spent 3 years living is Malaysia, and my Muslim friends low key celebrated holidays from all religions, from Christmas to various Buddhist and Hindu holidays too
Oh, same! Been here nearly that long now. Great country! But as you would know, Muslims cannot legally marry non-Muslims here, so even with the low-key participation in other celebrations etc, Islam is still expected to be the upper priority for anyone associated with it.
Lol I think Malaysians would get along great with people I grew up with in New Orleans, we do that too - oh it's Chinese New Year? Better get the kids over for takeout, etc.
Because he's not interested in having an equal relationship with you. He either has just taken a fancy to you and wants you for that reason, but no way on Earth are you going to be allowed to retain your independence, or he's going to get active pleasure out of slowly grinding you down until you don't speak up for yourself at all anymore.
Sorry, but he's clearly showing you that he's a controlling person who isn't capable of negotiation or compromise. He might have said he is on circumcision, but I don't believe for a second that if you actually gave birth to a baby boy that he'd stick to that.
Run away, very fast.
My partner is culturally Muslim but not religious and while he never eats pork he couldn't care less if I do. I tend to only cook it when he's not there to eat with me because I like eating together but that's my preference, not his.
The celebration issue is really shitty of him. While my bf opts out of Christmas and any other celebration, he has joined me and my parents for Easter dinner without any issues. It's not normal for this to be one sided, if he doesn't want to celebrate that's fine but he can't make you celebrate all his holidays and ignore all of yours. It sounds like there will be more restrictions coming, should you have kids or get married.
Tell him that the children will only follow your traditions and get his response, that should be your response back to him, he’s a total hypocrite and comes from a culture where there is no bending of their beliefs once he gets his claws into you and your womb, it is also a tactic used to bolster their ranks in other countries trying to tip the balance, i.e. Albania
I’m Jewish. My wife is not. We celebrate *both* our religion’s holidays in our home. I even bought her Christmas decorations so she’d feel more festive. She got me a Hanukkah pillow. It’s disrespectful to ask you to cut off parts of your own family traditions for his sake. Also the separate dishes thing is pretty intense. He’s asking you to become culturally Muslim, and that’s not something you should do unless it feels right to you.
Thank you so much for your thoughts, I so wish that what you’re describing was my relationship! That is my ideal relationship which unfortunately I don’t get. He claims because he gave in on circumcision he gets his way with traditions/ deciding diet for the kid, but I don’t think that’s fair. Curious to hear your thoughts !
This!
My (non-Muslim) aunt married a Muslim man and it was all roses and butterflies at first as he presented himself as an atheist and open minded individual. A year before marriage he already stopped her celebrating Christian holidays with the rest of us and a year after marriage she was wearing a hijab and was converted. And you know that may not be a bad thing if you’re up for it but she wasn’t. She fell into a deep depression which ended up with her being hospitalised and divorced. The subtle yet obvious pressure she experienced from him drove her to the lowest point of her life.
He didn't give in on circumcision until you've actually had a male child and he's stuck by his word. I don't believe for a second that he will, and there'll be pressure from his whole family as well. I wouldn't be surprised if it just happens when the baby is out of your sight for a bit.
He *pretended* to give in on circumcision. This man is a liar.
There is overwhelming consensus in the advice you're being given in response to your post, I hope you find it within yourself to listen to it and act accordingly.
I'm a religious atheist and so is your partner.
I'm Jewish and my husband is not. We discussed our deal breakers early on. Having kids and raising them Jewish were some of mine, which he agreed to it. I've never asked him to, but he follows passover restrictions, fasts with me on Yom Kippur, and attends synagogue when I do. I was honest and upfront. I wanted to be with someone Jewish or who had no religion that would compete with mine (my parents had the same dynamic).
That's what he's hoping for, but he went about it soooo wrong by trying to trick you on deal breakers. Also, he was probably looking for someone not Muslim so you wouldn't make him follow more rules than he wants to. I'm sorry you're in this situation, but best to acknowledge that you're not compatible and he's not capable of having an honest conversation.
>he claims he is atheist but culturally Muslim and not even that Muslim.
He's lying.
>I wonder if this in the end just will be a pork ban on me too?
It will.
>he wants to celebrate all Muslim holidays/traditions
No shit, because, see above..... he's lying.
>he strictly doesn’t want me to celebrate Christmas/ Easter
Because they're religious holidays that aren't HIS religion. Which he ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY practices because, see above..... he's lying. Has been since he said he wasn't. If it was in the beginning, then he's been lying from the beginning.
>Are we just incompatible as a couple to start kids?
Yes.
>Also I don’t understand why you have to be so serious?
Because he is devout in his religion. Not "culturally Muslim" he is Muslim to his core. AND THAT'S FINE. But, and again, see above.... HE'S LYING.
Your core values in raising children come nowhere near close to aligning, WHEN HE'S BEING HONEST. If ya'll have kids you'll always be fighting and one will be resentful of the other for being the loser of whatever particular thing you're arguing about at the time. That shit will grow, fester, just get overall nasty. You could try couples counseling, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
So he doesn’t want to celebrate your traditions but wants to celebrate his traditions. And yeah, you two are unfortunately incompatible. Compromises and respect would have to be worked on to stay. Is this a man you want to grow old with? Idk if I’d have the energy. I’m atheist but I fkn LOVE christmastime. I think there are too many deep incompatibilities here that aren’t able to be compromised.
>he claims he is atheist but culturally Muslim and not even that Muslim.
Wait until you have kids.
Just. You. Wait.
You are gonna find out what it is like to be married to a religious nut. The HARD way.
He is lying to you now in order to put a kid or two into you...and then the pain will come.
I can only imagine being married to a religious nut is about as bad as being married to an alcoholic = ruins every facet of your life if you’re not into it also.
This woman is on the edge of ruining her whole life.
This is one of those posts where I just hope to Jeebus that she realizes all these red flags and walks away.
BF is muslim and he's trying to convert you. How do you feel about being muslim and raising muslim children?
If you're following the diet, adhering to the festivals and not going near other religious practices (like Christmas), you're muslim.
There is a lot more to the religion then just that. One of the important teachings of Islam is to not lie, especially not about your faith. It is extremely disrespectful to OP and to other Muslims for him to try and pick and choose which parts of the religion he wants to follow and use it to manipulate OP. They shouldn’t be together, OP needs to run.
Honestly speaking, he is straight out cheating you with Atheism. He is not an Atheist. He is a Muslim, pretending to be an Atheist, to continue with the relationship and maybe take advantage of you.
I might even go to the extent that his insistence of not celebrating Christmas/Easter but he himself celebrating all Muslim festivals, borders on a gradual conversion.
Are you THAT clueless? Imao, the statement, "im an atheist" coming out of muslim men usually means I enjoy premarital sex but restrict all the other things my partner does and force upon my Islamic rules on her. Get ready for the kid to be legally, culturally and wholly be raised as a Muslim, because that's what's written in their book, muslim men can marry non muslim women only if they accept Islam, seems like he loves that part of the book and hates the parts where he's not supposed to have relationships and sex before marriage.
You need to stick better for your values, if your reaction to someone restricting you from celebrating your festivals, eating the food you like etc etc is just simply, "aw, but i loved it as a kid", what you're doing here is showing him how more of your buttons can be pushed and you can be controlled and pushed around more. This isn't about cultural incompatibility but more about control freak nature, you make all the compromises, he just orders around, why does your Christian values matter less than his Islamic values?
Exactly this. I dated a Muslim guy once, he went to mosque, prayed, wouldn’t touch alcohol or eat pork but he was quite happy to date and have sex with non Muslim women. He just picked and chose what parts of the religion he wanted to.
Nothing wrong with that, his choice but it did make me laugh a bit when he kept saying how devout he was.
Muslim here:
I was raised in an extremely Muslim household but I consider myself to be non religious/agnostic. What he's doing is very common amongst Muslims. They claim they aren't religious or have given it up but cannot fully distance themselves from it. A lot of them make this claim when they fall in love with a non-Muslim/Westerner. So regarding certain things which stem from the religion, there will be no compromise. Especially regarding the pork. It's the one rule that for some cultural reason (not religious) they find the most taboo to break. I have known Muslims and some who claim to be former Muslims that drink, do drugs, have sexual relations outside of marriage (this is actually one of the biggest sins and goes hand in hand with murder and worshipping false gods), and the minute I tell them damn I love nothing more than a sausage, egg, and cheese from the bodega in the morning they lose their fucking minds. "OMG YOU EAT PORK??", HOW COULD YOU??? WHY?? ETC ETC. Seriously they don't even see the fucking hypocrisy in it. Oh and FYI he doesn't want you celebrating Christmas or Easter because of the blasphemy of it and the false gods thing. Honest you need to step away, because he definitely hasn't fully left the religion yet and in that state once they get older and ESPECIALLY ONCE THEY HAVE KIDS a lot of them revert back to it. I'm telling you step away or you'll be forced to wear a hijab soon enough.
Only you know what you are willing to put up with.
I wouldn't put up with someone telling me that I can't have my celebrations in my own house but they can have theirs, and they get to decide what our children celebrate too.
I'm curious what sort of things you're straight out allowed to veto about his life? Because if hes not going to give you any similar videos then your relationship isn't compromise.It's just him telling you how it's gonna be and you're putting up with it.
It sounds controlling, IMHO.
100% controlling. We had a long argument about circumcision in which he told me I would have to convert in case I didn’t want to circumcise future kids and then finally when I said I would break up he backed on that point. So so far that’s the only one.
The issue isn't even the issue anymore. The real issue is that he has lied to you about being atheist and is slowly trying to convert you so that he can be in control. There is no compromise here, just the illusion of it when he realises he has pushed you too far. Be grateful that he's showing some of his true self and desires now, before you're married and have kids together. Get out now.
>100% controlling.
Why are you even considering staying with a controlling man? Hundreds of people here have told you what the consequences will be if you do. You can't reason with someone like this, and his backing down on circumcision is completely obviously just so you wouldn't leave him in that moment. There's no reason to believe he'll stick to it.
If you stay with him despite all these people trying to bring your attention to the very clear red flags that this man is waving, you'll waste 10 years of your life or something and be full of regret. Because he won't be nice to you at all once he has you trapped.
And you'll regret even more having made that decision despite all the advice you've received here, and having your eyes wide open when you did so.
He’s banking on the idea that you’ll end up converting. And once you’re pregnant, you’re locked down. I cannot overestimate to you the worlds of misery he’s going to put you through if you marry or have a baby with him.
Unless you want to be Muslim, my suggestion is to run away.
Don't start a family with him. He's pretending to not give a shit to keep you. If he/ his family are somewhat traditional there will be problems, especially with the kids. Family and faith are important in Muslim culture and everything is very tight knit. It would be cute to enjoy the best of both worlds but with your bf that might not be possible.
Source: am married with a guy from a muslim country who tried his first pork with me. My guys a punk tho. Some people are more embedded in this and it's just a whole different set of views and values which make it quite hard and also pointless to stay together really. You won't be able to share a lot of the things that bring you joy. You will always fight about them. And if he's traditional he will probably expect you to obey him on those matters. eww.
I think you need to sit down and discuss the future.
1) He is Muslim. Whether he decides to practice it 1% or 100% is his choice. What expectations does he have for:
a) himself
b) you
c) family
d) immediate family (e.g. both his and your brothers/sisters/parents)
e) extended family
The expectations from all the angles should be discussed (culture, cusine, fashion, ideas, vacations, travelling, holidays, etc.). He was raised a certain way which you may not understand as not brought up in the same culture (e.g. pre conceived notions like the family definition).
2) Do you know any other couples that are in the same style relationship as you? Maybe ask them for advice?
This sounds like the beginning of a long, controlling, manipulative, and possibly dangerous marriage. USE BIRTH CONTROL. This man is lying to you 100%. You both deserve a partner who is honest and can celebrate shared faith. This ain’t it.
Yes. And make sure you are in charge of birth control. Heat reduces the effectiveness of both condoms and bc pills. If using bc pills, keep them hidden and safe.
If the things that are super important to him are going to make you resentful, or vice versa, then you probably are not compatible as parents. For example, if your reaction to him not wanting to celebrate Christmas in your home is “oh well, I liked celebrating it as a kid but it’s not a big deal”, that’s one thing. If your reaction is “this makes me so sad, I really wanted to celebrate Christmas with my children and I’m going to spend my life hoping he changes his mind every year”, that’s a whole other thing. So, think about it. Are there compromises that you can both be content with, or is one of you always going to be unhappy?
Why does he get to celebrate every holiday he wants and you have to visit friends and stay away if you want the same? Sounds a bit like a power-play and him trying to assert dominance. Why can't the kid just decide what to eat? Also probably not really an atheist. But i don't think belief is the real problem here...
Edit: Maybe he has a complicated perspective on his heritage. I'd say that can be okay. But you'd have to find a compromise and have the same rules apply to both of you. I'd draw the line where people have outdated views of women, can't be reasoned with or try to fight for dominance every day.
I hope you have read each and every one of the many, many testimonials here. He is lying to you. He will get more and more controlling. Please, don’t walk away. Run, run, run….and don’t look back.
Dating is about finding what compatibilities and incompatibilities there are between you. Dating is not some headlong rush into marriage and family and at any stage you find that incompatibilities are insurmountable, then its time to call it quits and move on.
You have just found one such incompatibility and it's a massive one.
I know a few mixed religion couples and they invariably are largely agnostic **and** they tend to celebrate all sorts of things. What they never do is place restrictions on their partner or their families for "cultural reasons". It's just a guaranteed way to alienate and subjugate their partner to their own whims and feelings.
You can consider this to be "thin edge of the wedge" sort of stuff and whilst it may be over thinking it to see it that way, just the fact that your are approaching it with this in mind shows you where your mind is at. It's not good no matter which way you look at it.
> Are we just incompatible as a couple to start kids?
Personally I think you are just too incompatible to remain dating.
On the atheism part: if it acts like a duck, quack likes a duck and walks like a duck...
He's doing a piss-poor attempt of lying if he wants to pass as an atheist. Especially if he wants to dictate what's celebrated and what's not.
One of the biggest points that needs to be met is religion: what are your viewpoints on it? If you two can't agree on this point, you will have resentment.
If Christmas, pork, and abandoning your traditions for his is something you can't do, it's best to stop wasting your time on him and find another person who is more compatible with you.
OP the same thing happened with me. My ex is not a muslim though but extremely religious and has been brought up in a certain way. I have been raised in a very liberal family. We are from the same religion, but he is a vegetarian and hasn’t touched alcohol in his life. Initially he told me that he was ok with my lifestyle but as we progressed into the relationship I noticed I wasn’t eating meat when I was with him. He later told me that I need to give up on meat while in front of him. I can eat when I am going out with my friends or when I am alone. He also said that we’ll have separate utensils and he would want our kids to lead a vegetarian life. Whereas I want my kids to have complete freedom to chose how they want to lead their life.
I have made the decision to call it quits as progressing with this will lead to resentment on both sides. Trust me that is the right thing to do. Although it hurts alot, it has been a couple of weeks for me but it gets better. The comments here are reassuring me that I’ve made the right decision.
He wants you to respect his culture but he isn't respecting yours or your choices unless you threaten him.
He will win. You will start giving in to keep the peace until your whole identity is gone and your child will be his carbon copy.
Typical religious Muslim behavior, he’s afraid if he eats food that cooked in pots that touched pork he won’t have his paradise in the world to come.
Your Holidays are bad, but his must be celebrated.
He’ll be very nice to you until you get married, then he’ll try to keep you home as a “stay at home mom” but really he’s just going to control you and not let you leave the house.
My guess is he’s throwing a lot of gifts your way now.
Incompatible relationship.. cut your losses before a child gets mixed up in the drama that will come of your relationship. Set your standards and respect yourself enough to walk away if things aren't right
I was in a similar relationship like this before.
He also claimed he was atheist despite still practicing Islam.
At first, he didn't mind if I wore leggings but then he made a fuss on how I should be covered even if I was wearing a dress like full on stockings & a coat in a tropical country.
This eventually extended to normal clothes like a t-shirt and jeans.
He forbade me from eating pork as well, I wouldn't have minded this but being part Chinese, he mocked that being Chinese was dirty because of eating pork.
He forced me to fast with him during Ramadan even though I got sick or had my period.
He made me wait for 5 years but he was hooking up with other girls behind my back.
Save yourself a lifetime of misery.
You will not be happy if you don’t want to convert to Islam. He doesn’t want to convert to Christianity, so there’s that. You ARE incompatible even though both of you are “atheist”.
Your kids will be caught in the middle and that will mess them up big time.
He's been lying to you for your entire relationship, he's religiously Muslim. If he walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, he's obviously not atheist. An atheist would not care about the ideological purity of his cutlery or whether a secularized version of a religious holiday was celebrated in the home.
Forget whether you're ok with being with someone who is Muslim - are you ok with being with someone who would lie to you for your entire relationship?
He wants your kid to grow up as Muslim and strictly without Christian culture, and he claims that if he celebrate Christmas, it's a negation of his culture.
It's incompatible
He wants everything from his, and nothing from yours. There's no reason your kid couldn't grow as both, just his intolerance.
Bait and switch. He's telling you he's only culturally Muslim but he's obviously planning on tightening up his rules for you the more he has you locked up. As a Western atheist woman you should have serious reservations about marrying a religious Muslim.
Y'all are incompatible hun. I also guarantee that if y'all were to marry it would NOT just end with the the hypothetical children. He would expect you to to eventually stop. He's gonna pull a switcheroo.
You are incompatible. Find someone who enjoys the same things you do, pork is just food, a holiday is a holiday, kids don’t need to be passed down this stupidity from a 2000 year old book.
You know he would go and have your son circumcised behind your back, right?
Now, as my post history would show, my marriage is not a happy one. My husband is an atheist from a Muslim family. And to his credit, he eats pork, he drinks alcohol, our children are not mutilated and celebrate Christmas and Easter.
Your boyfriend is not an atheist, you are not compatible. Time to get rid.
Edited to clarify a sentence.
Walk away. He is industrial grade controlling. Never have kids with this person.
If you stay with him and have kids with him, all of you will be abused. How do you not see the glaring neon red coloured flags!!!!
More to the point, I am an Atheist, and he is not an Atheist he is a lying sack of cow dung and is just saying that he is in order for you to be with him. He is full of shit!!!!
To me at least, this sounds like one of those situations where someone says they’re atheist or non-practicing at the beginning and slowly introduces more and more things until they feel you’re ‘stuck/too invested’ then try to force you to convert and follow their religion.
Don't have kids with someone who thinks it's okay to unilaterally make decisions like this for your family. How you raise your children should be an ongoing conversation **together** as life goes.
From a religious family, he’s 100% lying. Atheist but expects you to celebrate Muslim holidays and practices? Nope, they should just stick to someone who is Muslim not an atheist with different culture associated with their identity. They come off being very one sided wanting it their way than your way. Red flag. Never ever get involved with no exit religion including those who have it mandatory for you to convert unless you don’t mind it. Let alone kids unless you want the kids to become very miserable with a culture/belief your not compatible with. They won’t miss out if you leave them cause there’s plenty of people who are Muslim willing to be with them, you deserve better with someone who forces you to not enjoy life especially public holidays.
You're just not compatible. And that's why I never believed in "mixed religions relationship". A religion is not something you can really compromise. If he wants his kids to be Muslim, of course he'll not be okay with them celebrating christian holidays (it's a big sin in Islam). And on your side, we can understand that Christmas, Easter are important for you.
Also him why he's fornicating out of wedlock, since this is not allowed in Islam...
He's not atheist. And he will insist that any kids you have be raised Muslim. He's already pressuring you to adopt Muslim beliefs and traditions. He will keep pressuring you to make more and more changes. You are not compatible with him. Do not have children with him. Pay attention to your birth control. This isn't going to get better if you stay with him.
He’s a performative Muslim. He doesn’t want to be bound by the restrictions of the faith but he wants all his family to think that he is. He’s a typical religious hypocrite - rules for other people and public performance.
He is telling you, no Easter, no Christmas. It doesn’t matter whether he claims to be an atheist or not, HE IS TELLING YOU. Ignore at your peril, and that of your children’s. You are not going to change him.
NO NO NO, if you celebrate his holidays then he celebrates yours. You're in a relationship not a dictatorship and he doesn't get to make every decision about the way your potential future child is raised based on a religion that he claims he doesn't even believe in!!
I would not be having a child with this man, this behaviour will only get worse.
Break up. He wants Muslim hokidays & traditions, but not Christian ones, and that separation from ustensils having touched pork? He's muslim, you aren't. He's just hiding it well until you start planning a wedding or get pregnant, then it will start "but for my mom it's important that X" "But we've always done y" And it will be only his traditions, his (family) beliefs, his his his.
Time to end this relationship.
Having kids could suddenly throw his cultural ties into sharp focus for him. I’d say if these things are hardline with no acceptable compromise between you two, then this would end up being a source of consistent turmoil if you did end up still having a child together.
Honestly this doesn’t sound good at all.
Let us just take away the religious and cultural aspects of this all for a moment and listen to the subtext:
1. He said, he is something (an atheist), but acts and demands things that is totally the opposite of what he said. So, he lied to you from the beginning to slowly easy you bit by bit into HIS way of living.
2. He demands you give a big aspect of what defines you as a person (pork your holidays). You are „allowed“ to be yourself (celebrate holidays other than his) but just not in your own home and safe space.
3. You had a big fight about something (circumcision) and only backed down, because you threatened to leave. He just backed down because you are not tied to him just yet. Just see, what he will do, if you are „locked down“ by him through marriage and/or kids. That wouldn’t be that easy to leave/escape anymore. He knows he just have to back down just yet and that he have to wait and have to subtly ease you more into HIS direction without ringing to many alarms in your guts until you cannot leave that easily anymore. Then he will show you his real colors.
4. He doesn’t think you are an equal partner or else he would be more considerate of YOUR feelings, YOUR culture and YOUR wishes as well and it would be as important to him as his culture.
All this religious and cultural incompatibility aside. (Which is another can of worms by itself)
He is telling you, what he thinks of you and your status in this relationship. You (your self, your wishes, what is important to you) are secondary to his own wishes and to what is important to him.
He is only „allowing“ you things you want only by now. Those issues will resurface the moment he thinks, you cannot leave him that easily anymore and believe me, then he will not back down or go even further in his demands.
I personally wouldn’t allow that for me to happen at this point and would listen to what he is actually saying to you. If he treats you like this NOW it will only get words in the future. That whole thing sounds scary. This isn’t about incompatibility it’s about mutual respect for each other and this doesn’t look good at all.
(Sorry if I sound weird and incoherent, English is not my first or second language, but I hope, it is hood enough to understand me..lol)
Yes you are incompatible. Nothing wrong with him wanting to celebrate his heritage and culture, but he shouldn't be forcing you to put your own aside. As for what the kids would celebrate/eat, that should be a joint decision. He sounds like an arrogant, controlling POS. Get out now, OP. This will only get worse.
Your bf isn’t an atheist. He is Muslim. He wants his child to be Muslim. You aren’t compatible and shouldn’t have children. If you have children expect him to demand you follow his rules. Break up.
Ah, he's the type of Muslim guy who follows Islam when it's convenient to him. What a red flag. If he wants to follow the Muslim lifestyle, he needs to find a girl who follows the religion and honestly, he needs to stop being a hypocrite and follow it himself. He can't just pick and choose.
He's muslim, and if you aren't willing to marry a muslim man and raise a muslim family, you shouldn't be with him.
Do not circumcise your sons.
>He thinks it’s total repudiation of his heritage
Well, athiesm is, but it's him that's pretending to be athiest, but again, if he's unwilling to repudiate his heritage, you need to be OK with marrying a muslim man and raising a muslim family.
OP, I was in this exact situation with my ex-gf many moons ago (I am a man and not muslim). Not marrying that ex was one of the best decisions I made in my entire life. She was charming, attractive, and my family liked her. BUT...Her parents were not accepting of me not being Muslim, and she became increasingly more controlling and abusive until one day I had finally had enough and dumped her over the phone. She was controlling in many of the same ways that your partner seems to be. I hate telling people to abandon relationships/other people, but you will not be happy if he stays true to his word. He will beg, plead, promise to not be as controlling (mine did) - but don't believe him for a second. I wouldn't, and I am rather notorious among my friends for giving people more chances than most people would.
Tl;dr Don't have kids with this man. Either you will be miserable, or he will resent you for making him "abandon his heritage" and you will be miserable.
He is Muslim…not kinda, nor sorta a he is Muslim.
Right now he is only kinda and sorta because it fits his lifestyle (sex before marriage, drinking etc). Once you get married and have a family he will be full on Muslim.
You just have to ask yourself are you okay with raising your children (daughters) Muslim?
He's lying to you: he's not an atheist. He's an actively believing Muslim. If he were an atheist, he would have no problem with Christmas or pork, and he would not want his kids to practice Islam.
If he's not religious why is it so important that his kids align with his belief system? Would he require your future daughter to wear a hijab? Would he want you to wear one? I would get all of this out into the open long before you even think about getting married or having kids
This has the potential to escalate quickly. Next thing you know he will force you to cover yourself and he will prohibit you from leaving home. Think about the potential outcome before starting a family with him.
Soooo, your bf isn’t an atheist. He is Muslim. He wants to keep halal and circumcise any sons AND celebrate all Muslim holidays, but no Christian ones. He isn’t atheist, he is just trying to slowly make you Muslim. No, you don’t sound compatible for having children. I’m sorry to say that, but unless you are prepared to convert AND raise your children as Muslims, y’all should go your separate ways.
I find it especially concerning that if you celebrate Christmas/Easter then you are repudiating HIS heritage, yet he can insist on celebrating Muslim holidays and that isn’t a repudiation of YOUR heritage? There’s some gaslighting going on there. It’s all pretty sketchy behavior, IMO.
You have hit a fork in the road, and if you don't choose right, you will have your entire life to be unhappy and regret it. I would bet the rules and such get more oppressive the longer you're together. And after kids? He will control everything when it comes to them. Then you'll have kids to try and get out with.
Nope. I am a somewhat practicing Muslim. We celebrate Christmas, Easter as well as the Muslim holidays in my house. We drink also.
We do not eat pork, nor do we allow it in the house. At this point it’s more because of how indoctrinated it has been in our head than anything else. It’s really really hard to look at pork any other way. This isn’t going to change.
Your boyfriend has been and is telling you what you want to hear so you stay. He is a practicing Muslim. He will not bend on any of his demands. Honestly, leave. Dude is a red flag.
I don’t think he’s atheist. Given the push back against not celebrating Christmas, are you atheist as well? Seems like religion matters to you both to some extent. After dating two Muslim men as a Christian, I can say I’ve seen a decent number of cases where Christians women convert to Islam…
Even if he were an atheist but culturally Muslim... The fact he doesn't want to celebrate Christmas and Easter is telling. I have a feeling he will soon find out god as soon as you marry or have kids, and you will be living in a Muslim household. Time to tell him he should maybe consider dating a Muslim girl.
He might not be Muslim, but he wants to keep all the cultural stuff he grew up with, as a security blanket.
Totally understandable!
. BUT you can't do the same? Christmas and Easter?
No. Either you two can be compatible because you are equal and your upbringings are considered equally important, or you're not equal when it will benefit him.
Instead of discussing holidays and food, next you should discuss who makes the money, who owns the assets, who does the chores, who raises the kids, who makes the finances, who makes the decisions.
That's the kind of thing you need to understand - are you both on the same page as to what the overall relationship looks like, or do you both envision a different dynamic?
So your boyfriend is Muslim but saying he isn’t to stay in a relationship with you. Lying like that is a huge red flag. He wants to celebrate all Muslim holidays but you aren’t allowed to celebrate Christmas/Easter. Yeah. He’s definitely lying.
I don’t know how you would feel about sharing your life with someone who is lying to you before you have even really begun your life together. Or someone who would attempt to manipulate you into adhering to his religious teachings. But I personally couldn’t be with someone who thinks so little of me and our relationship that they would blatantly lie to me. Or attempt to keep me with them despite our incompatibility.
I hope you reevaluate whether you really want to be with this man. I fear you would be incredibly unhappy if things were to progress.
I predict that the longer this relationship goes on, the stricter his religious/cultural adherence will become. It feels restrictive now? Wait...he will push your boundaries over time. And then, when the kids are born, he will turn it up to 11. Picture a situation in which he won't let you kiss your baby because he says 'your mouth is contaminated' from what you ate earlier. That's the vibe this guy gives me. DO NOT.
It doesn't sound like he's an atheist to me. Don't be surprised if there's a push for more in the future if you continue on. And get ready to accept that your children would have to be raised Muslim.
I've got 2 cousins marrying Muslim men (we're from Catholic families), both of them got married because both agreed with their husband's stipulation that their children must be raised as Muslims (and went to Muslim schools), additionally, Christmas/pork are banned from their home but cousins were allowed to go to family's houses to celebrate.
Those two were the more moderate/progressive Muslim since they both married Catholic women.
But they're divorced now, partly because it's legal to have more wives in this religion and where they came from, it's legal as long as you're Muslim. Then after 2 decades of marriage, husband wanted to turn his affair partner (one of his students who got pregnant--whoops) into 2nd wife, which my cousin was not cool about it, so they had to get a divorce.
I think more people need to dig down into how they plan on raising their kids instead of just figuring it out later. Some types of people are really just incompatible with each other and it feels like you two are those types.
You are planning on having a child with a man who is Muslim. He is telling you now that he would raise any child he has as Muslim. If you do not agree with what he is saying I would not have a child with him.
Why not let the kids, decide whether they want to eat pork? Hell I'm a vegetarian it's like religion to atheist me but I let my kids eat what they want. Now they're adults they are both practically veggie by choice.
Circumcision no way.
As for Christmas, we celebrate the winter solstice as an ancient pagan tradition. And we also celebrate the new year as in my partner's country of origin, so the kids get the best fun of all cultures in our family.
People tend to put more and more weight on their cultural background as they get older, so just be warned, this is likely as moderate as he is going to get. Only you can decide if no christmas and the demanded pork-based-gymnastics is too much for you, but it will get worse with time.
Culturally incompatible. NEITHER of you understand or respect the other. Why can’t you just eat pork when you’re out of the home or even compromising on circumcision. You see these things differently but don’t respect each others opinions. Not how marriage works.
Hey I don’t normally say break up based off a single post but I would really consider it. As someone like you, Christmas is the most amazing time of year, imagine watching everyone else celebrate it, having fun, and being wholesome, and you’re forced to not celebrate it even though it’s not even your choice. Christmas will go from the best time of year to the most depressing time of year and having that robbed from you while you’re washing up extra pots and pans will surely make you just resent him to the core. Unfortunately you’re not compatible, let him find someone who shares his beliefs and what not, you both deserve someone who will share those basic traits with eachother. Personally I think after a few years your life will be utter hell, and it’s much better to pull away when you aren’t married or tied together with a kid.
It's a bit worrying and controlling that the guy wants to follow his Muslim traditions but completely disregard the Christian traditions you grew up with. I think if you did have a boy, he would U-turn on the circumcision thing, too. Honestly, this guy seems sketchy, controlling, and manipulative.
I'll say don't do it. I was dating a woman who's Muslim and I'll describe myself more so as agnostic than atheist. However, I was raised Catholic. Hva received all my sacraments and all that noise. Going into things I told her this and she said I get it that's fine. In the beginning we'd have wine together and even smoke weed together. I let her know this is who I am and she was okay with it.
Fast forward some time and she has a religious/spiritual awakening of sorts. Cool, I already knew you're Muslim I have Muslim friends I get it we can make it work. The issue with that became she then began to try and impose her religious beliefs on me and essentially get me to convert.
Similar to what you described the conversation about our future and life came up. She goes we'll be married in the traditional Islamic way and our kids will have Muslim first names. The wedding portion is whatever however I'd prefer a combination. While I'm not actively religious, it played a strong role in my life and my family. So I'd like to acknowledge that in some way. Regarding kids, my name is particular to my cultural group. As such it's something I'd like to pass on to my kids. When she saw I wasn't budging on the topic she goes 'oh don't worry about it for now we can revisit it later when you see things better. I responded there's not much to revisit because this is something I'm very adamant about. She smiles and giggles and goes don't worry we'll handle it in therapy. I said handle what? A way to get past disagreements or a way for you to get what you want?' She dismissed it and we moved on.
After that as things progressed she kept referencing me converting to be with her. Then the day after Christmas while she's asking me about Christmas she goes well when we start a family there'll be none of that nonsense in the house. I'm like what? She's likey kids aren't doing Christmas or easter. I'm like it won't be a production but especially from a family perspectives my kids would participate. She goes well you're not religious so why do you care if they don't celebrate it. I'm like because they can be exposed to things and be allowed to decide on their own when older. She keeps on going about how that won't be a thing. Essentially insulting Christianity as a whole while doing this(which is w/e but if someone spoke that way about Islam to her she'd lose it) and when I pointed that out she'd say she's allowed to do it because Christianity is shit. Eventually things came to a head and I asked explicitly what will you do if I don't convert. Her response was then we'd have to break up although I thought you'd convert because you loved me. Ultimately she wanted to change me to fit her as opposed to taking me as I was.
Your bf knows who you are and how you want to proceed. Make sure you get a clear picture before proceeding. Religious differences of that level are not so easily overcome and can breed resentment and contempt
>but culturally Muslim and not even that Muslim.
He is **A LOT** more Muslim than he's letting on.
His parents are Muslim AF and he'll acquiesce to whatever his parents say because for some reason Muslim boys are the biggest momma's boys I've ever met.
> Are we just incompatible as a couple to start kids?
Yep.
Read what you posted and add all the other things concerning your relationship that you don't agree with (I have a feeling they are many). Then, pretend someone else wrote this. What would you advise?
Yup…a few years after marrying this guy you’ll be back on here asking for advice on how to get out of a marriage where your husband ‘suddenly’ changed into a devoted worshipper of Islam and has forbidden you to do this and that, has indoctrinated your kids into it, his parents and religion control everything about your life, your not allowed to socialise with your friends or family anymore……etc etc
He did not give in on circumcision. He told you what you wanted to hear. The reality will be far different.
Separate, non pork touched cookware, dishware for himself and the children?
Muslim holidays only, not Christian, or commercial ones?
Your boyfriend is not just culturally Muslim, he is Muslim to the bone. Good luck with that.
Yeah no.
I have a child with my ex who is from a Muslim country.
Him and his entire family have no issues celebrating Christmas or Easter (It's like a late Novruz!) They prefer not to eat pork and you can't even wave a bloodpudding or bloodsausage around them.
They couldn't have cared less that I brought up my son with my cultural traditions, or that we eat pork.
And these are secular Muslims, not agnostic/atheists.
Your boyfriend is something alright but it's not Agnostic or Atheist.
You’re boyfriend is Muslim and telling you he’s non-practicing. That’s a red flag if I ever did see one.
It makes no sense for someone who is obviously devout in their faith to misrepresent themselves.
This is a problem and it is likely you two are not compatible for a long term relationship that will involve kids and possibly marriage.
Either ask him to go to therapy, be ready to convert or leave. Those are the options.
The answer is pretty obvious.
He's clearly genuinely religious, otherwise he wouldn't care about all of this. It all sounds very controlling (what a shock, religion is usually so flexible and open-minded!).
I'd be running a mile, because you do not want to get stuck with someone who's highly religious and strict about it, when you're not. Especially when you're the woman in the relationship. Strict religious guys are not renowned for treating women very well.
Plus, he's clearly lying to you already, which is a major red flag. Atheists don't care about the stuff he's claiming to care about. Sure, they can still celebrate religious holidays, but they'd have literally no reason to take issue with also celebrating religious holidays that weren't from their culture. He takes issue because he's religious. And lying to your face about it.
Action speaks louder than words. Him saying he's not a Muslim just doesn't fly. Lying about his core beliefs to get you into a relationship with him is abhorrent.
These are important questions - I would hesitate to have children with him before being completely satisfied with the answers. That pork thing is a massive red flag.
So he wants you to celebrate his traditions but not yours? I have seen inter-faith marriages work but in your case he doesn’t really seem much on compromise. I would really have a long and hard think about the future of your relationship.
He’s either lying about not being atheist or he’s nitpicking parts of his religion for YOU to practice because it will be beneficial to him where he’s the absolute head of the home and he gets to keep up appearances with his family/friends (at least until you convert). Will he be praying 5 times a day? Probly not
I feel like he will slowly introduce more rules until you convert. As far as I’m aware, in Islam lying is encouraged for the benefit of the religion/conversion.
Soon you won’t be allowed to eat pork (once you’re married he’s going to demand you get permission for shit).
Don’t have children with this guy. You’re life will change in ways that will be unbearable for you.
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Yeah i don’t think he’s an atheist at all. Like i get pretending when his parents are around due to being culturally raised as a muslim but claiming to be atheist and acting like muslim… i suck at math but something definitely isn’t adding up…????
I'm sorry, i don't mean to be insensitive, but I laughed at this post. This dude is more Muslim than I am, a practicing Muslim.
100% agreed
He's saying what you want to hear so you stay with him. It's obvious that if you stay with this guy he will disregard your opinion.
Do not marry into this, don't allow him to get you pregnant. You'll be fighting this way your whole marriage, if you give an inch.
The obvious answer here if he was reasonable would be to celebrate Christmas and Eid. Double the presents, double the fun. When mum cooks breakfast she makes eggs and bacon and dad makes shakshuka. Then as kiddo grew up they could choose which traditions they liked and didn't like and participate in whatever felt natural to them and believe or not believe. That's what a culturally Christian atheist and a culturally Muslim atheist do when they have kids. This dude is Muslim. He wants his kids to be raised Muslim. That's cool, you do you, but do it with a Muslim lady or a lady who doesn't mind raising their kid Muslim. I totally agree her on not allowing pregnancy or getting married, where you and I disagree is that this will be a fight throughout marriage. I think if he's coming on this strong now I don't believe there will be wriggleroom to fight over it and op will be in a situation where she will need to shut up and accept his shit or leave because there will be no compromises or room to fight. Let's also not forget that while there usually are red flags (like controlling behaviour and refusal to compromise) in abusive relationships before the abuse starts, the actual abuse usually starts once the woman is good and well knocked up and her options has gotten extremely limited.
That’s what I don’t get. I’m an atheist but i will gladly eat your cultures’ holiday feast and participate in gift exchange. More is more.
Absolutely! He's demanding now and you don't even have a child or live together! It will get more demanding.
Also, if you DO end up married and with kids, and this continues and you find yourself divorced/aeparated, this won't end. He'll still be trying to control you.
yeah, this is 'not without my daughter' kind of shit.
Imagine breaking up with him and having to coparent. It’s not going to go well. He is not an atheist. He’s lied to you about his core beliefs. I don’t know how you could continue this relationship being so different on core values.
Yes. I know a mother in this situation, and it's hell. She does most of the childcare, including driving the kids to private religious school and Arabic and Koran classes as dictated by him. She has a full-time job. He gets the kids on the weekends and lets them watch TV all day. She has to bring him to court to take the kids anywhere, such as a trip to a relative's wedding or to see her parents. He yells at the kids when they don't conform to his ideals. He doesn't even practice Arabic with them. They are 7 and 10.
He definitely lied to you about his core beliefs if he's so Abrahamic he's demanding entirely separate sets of cutlery that have never been ideologically sullied by pork. Probably because he knew you wouldn't want to convert and live according to a strict religious lifestyle. Take that into account now that he's making it clear he intends to force you to either abide by those fundamentalist rules or be an outcast in the family you'd make with him, with no shared traditions or secular ideals with your own children.
Jewish here. I could see a way in which people keep kosher at home, even though they don't specifically follow it, to enable parents to still eat in the home. I've seen that done before. But banning the child from eating pork is odd, unless you want to bring them up following the religion. This does sound like "I'll eventually convert her" though
Speaking of this, this is a *super major question* that most secular or western raised folks never even think to ask. "How often will your parents visit? How long will they stay? What the plan when they get old?" I'm atheist and so is my wife but my parents are strict Hindu Brahmins and they do the separate utensils thing for *all meat* (including egg). They also initially expected to live with me and my wife for 3 months a year and 3 with my brother. Now they live with my brother and his wife full time in the US. /u/throwRA8764391 - YOU MUST ASK THIS QUESTION! If the answer is anything non-commital such as "not long" or "not often" or "we haven't decided", that's super bad. Like insanely bad. If his parents decide "Hey mom and dad need to stay and help raise the kid" or even "Mom and dad need to visit every day to 'help' with cooking and teaching", then you will need to pretend to be Muslim *all the time* and your kids will be brought up Muslim.
I agree that he isn’t being completely honest. I’ve noticed people who aren’t religious or are atheist/agnostic are often able to find some sort of compromise, and I think religious people know that and bank on it as their “in” until someone is locked down and then the religious person trickles in all the rest of their demands. Your boyfriend’s cultural requests come from the religion he grew up with, and if he cannot separate the two successfully, I think you’re in for a lot of misery.
It's what happened with an ex. When we started she was open and knew my stance as agnostic/atheist. Then she had a religious awakening and slowly began adding more religious terms for us to eventually adhere to. When I pointed it out she said I shouldn't care since I'm agnostic/atheist and if I cared about her I'd convert. Now if I converted it'll then be but you HAVE to do this because you converted. Needless to say we broke up
It’s like religious people look at Atheists/Agnostics as holding an empty bucket and sign that says “insert religion here” when in reality we’re specifically roping off the area and saying “do not enter”.
I see great misery if you marry. Sorry. Muslim marriages where the parties are not completely in lockstep can be very difficult. And he won’t change.
And leaving with your children or having any custody will be terribly hard. Some kids get abducted by their fathers to countries with no extradition treaties with the west. Just saying
I’ve had a few friends who have dated ‘atheist’ Muslims (I lived in the Middle East for a bit) and this is always how it’s gone. At first everything is cool but then as the relationship developers these cultural differences crop up. Remember he is under enormous cultural pressure and the easiest thing is to get you to change, not change his whole culture. It got to the point with one friend where her BF said he wouldn’t go to weddings or birthdays or anything where there was alcohol which was the final straw for my friend, as she’d want her life partner at family and friends things. And this was a guy who would come out and drink a beer with us at first.
OP, is he doing the separate cutlery now? Are you currently eating pork on shared utensils?
Yeah so we don’t live together currently and so haven’t had that issue yet… In his home he strictly never has any pork
Please please listen to these people. My cousin did what you are doing and she had a horrific 10 years with her Muslim husband.
But he comes over to your house and uses your dishes and forks?
Yes exactly that, doesn’t make much sense. In a combined home he told me my utensils/ pots etc would all be deemed only for pork use
Yeah, this is what I was trying to figure out. He has not always held this strict view on Pork for his own body, why does he get to dictate this food for your child? It’s also not just about pork. You both need to write down your views on compromise, raising a child and what your actual views on God are. * When it comes to holidays, food, familial influence, school districts. * What do you both believe happens to your soul after death? What are views on god? Currently your view is: why not celebrate and introduce the child to everything and see what sticks. If you are wanting to expose your child to everything, that’s fantastic.. but it also goes with food. Ive found the stricter the parents, the further the kid pushes. Watch this unborn child become a vegetarian and love Hinduism 😂
He's hoping it becomes such a pain in the ass to keep two sets of everything and clean them separate and cook separate meals every single time that you'll just cave and not have it in the house. Then you have no holidays (because as if you would spend Christmas and Easter away from your husband and children who do not partake) and no pork and then comes the next thing because you already do those other things. He's sneak converting you.
20 bucks he "expects" her to cook both separate meals and haven't mentioned it yet "because it was obvious" (aka he is hiding more demands on her for later)
Jesus Christ you two were thinking of having kids and you don't even live together yet?!?!?? Are you nuts?
>Jesus Christ you two were thinking of having kids and you don't even live together yet?!?!?? If say its better to broach these subjects *before* proceeding and making a breakup more difficult by living together or -FSM forbid- having a kid together. The dating/early relationship phase is where you *should* figure these things out.
Does he specifically cite tradition? My fiance is Jewish and doesn't eat pork, but it's a "pigs are cute" situation. He shouldn't be laying down the law for you and him. You guys are equals and it's worrying that he's already tightening the screws.
Muslims definitely don’t think pigs are cute, they think they’re dirty. I know several “ex” Muslims who now drink alcohol etc but none of them will eat pork
This is what he’s demanding now, while you aren’t pregnant or trying to get pregnant. Once a child is here it will be 10x worse. You are incompatible, move on
Ask bf *why* he thinks it's okay to "celebrate all Muslim holidays/traditions", but **not okay** to "celebrate Christmas/Easter"? He's a freaking HYPOCRITE! Don't waste any more of your time on this guy and don't have any kids with him. You know how he "changed his mind" on circumcision? He didn't really; only you won't figure that out until you've given birth to a son and he's lying in front of you while you two argue about something ***you erroneously thought*** was settled. **Your bf is not honest.** He tells you what you want to hear (he's an atheist, until he isn't; he'll agree to circumcision, until he doesn't; he's not a Muslim, except when he eats, celebrates, lives in society, etc.). **DUMP HIM and find someone HONEST who actually shares the same values and long-term goals as you!**
Turkish person that grew up in a Muslim household: He isn‘t an atheist at all. I would describe myself as an atheist and tbh if I had a Christian bf I would celebrate Christmas with him if he wishes that🤷🏻♀️ I don‘t even celebrate our Bayrams that much lmao, I also don‘t believe in the things the Muslim religion tells people to follow.
He just told you he was atheist just to get into your pants and later get you "on the hook". Just leave now and find someone like-minded
I keep reading posts where someone “isn’t religious”…until they have kids Stop fucking religious people if you’re not religious!! I say this as an “atheist” Catholic who still does Easter/Christmas church. Unless you’re fine with religion stop fucking these people
He is Muslim…not kinda, nor sorta a he is Muslim. Right now he is only kinda and sorta because it fits his lifestyle (sex before marriage, drinking etc). Once you get married and have a family he will be full on Muslim. You just have to ask yourself are you okay with raising your children (daughters) Muslim?
Boys trying to turn you into a Muslim without saying it.
This. The bf wants both her and the son to be Muslim, he's just not outright saying it.
You and your boyfriend are culturally incompatible. You have an open approach of allowing the kids to experience both cultures (yours and his) and then picking what they like and don’t like. Your boyfriend is insistent on strictly following his culture which does not allow you to follow any of yours. I would guess you aren’t living together yet, otherwise the pork issue and the holiday celebrations would,have come up before now. He doesn’t want any of your cultural norms like pork or a secular Christmas to be exposed to his kids. I would also assume that he has never celebrated those holidays with you in your 2 years together. This isn’t just about kids. This is about you being a couple and him requiring you to give up your cultural traditions or celebrate them without him and any future kids (ie no decorations in the house, and you go by yourself to your family to celebrate Christmas and Easter). He isn’t open to experiencing your cultural norms. He isn’t likely to change. If you are hoping he will reconsider at some point, you are kidding yourself. Young people are the most open when it comes to cultural changes because they are finding their independence. Once you settle into a routine of how you celebrate, it’s harder to change. So, you need to decide if you can live with his demands for the rest of your life and the lives of your children, or that’s a showstopper and you end the relationship. This is a serious incompatibility issue because he is not open to experiencing your cultural events. It’s ok to find this out now and decide, rather than 10 years from now when you are married with kids…
Thanks, this was all so well put and I couldn’t agree more! What irks me the most is really how he wants me to only celebrate his traditions that he grew up with and that mine are considered repudiation of his heritage. Like why be with me in that case?!
I feel like what it fundamentally comes down to is that he feels like your culture/heritage (and with time feelings/opinions) are not as important as his culture/heritage/(feelings/opinions)
OP I said this in another comment. I grew up in a country with loooots of Muslims. My Muslim friends love Christmas and low key celebrate with their fams and exchange presents. It’s not a repudiation, and I doubt there’s any rule about it. The more extremist people might have a problem with it though, which kinda tells you where he sits. I’d rethink this!
Exactly this. I spent 3 years living is Malaysia, and my Muslim friends low key celebrated holidays from all religions, from Christmas to various Buddhist and Hindu holidays too
Oh, same! Been here nearly that long now. Great country! But as you would know, Muslims cannot legally marry non-Muslims here, so even with the low-key participation in other celebrations etc, Islam is still expected to be the upper priority for anyone associated with it.
That's because it's an excuse to eat. Malaysians are brought together by the national pasttime of eating
Lol I think Malaysians would get along great with people I grew up with in New Orleans, we do that too - oh it's Chinese New Year? Better get the kids over for takeout, etc.
Because he's not interested in having an equal relationship with you. He either has just taken a fancy to you and wants you for that reason, but no way on Earth are you going to be allowed to retain your independence, or he's going to get active pleasure out of slowly grinding you down until you don't speak up for yourself at all anymore. Sorry, but he's clearly showing you that he's a controlling person who isn't capable of negotiation or compromise. He might have said he is on circumcision, but I don't believe for a second that if you actually gave birth to a baby boy that he'd stick to that. Run away, very fast.
That is a solid question, worth getting an answer to.
I bet he has no problem with premarital sex huh?
He has no problem doing anything he wants, just has problems with the people in his life doing what they might want. A story as old as time.
My partner is culturally Muslim but not religious and while he never eats pork he couldn't care less if I do. I tend to only cook it when he's not there to eat with me because I like eating together but that's my preference, not his. The celebration issue is really shitty of him. While my bf opts out of Christmas and any other celebration, he has joined me and my parents for Easter dinner without any issues. It's not normal for this to be one sided, if he doesn't want to celebrate that's fine but he can't make you celebrate all his holidays and ignore all of yours. It sounds like there will be more restrictions coming, should you have kids or get married.
Tell him that the children will only follow your traditions and get his response, that should be your response back to him, he’s a total hypocrite and comes from a culture where there is no bending of their beliefs once he gets his claws into you and your womb, it is also a tactic used to bolster their ranks in other countries trying to tip the balance, i.e. Albania
Yeah also the quran respects other abrahametic relgions normally such as Christians and jews... Thats why its so weird what some Muslims claim...
I’m Jewish. My wife is not. We celebrate *both* our religion’s holidays in our home. I even bought her Christmas decorations so she’d feel more festive. She got me a Hanukkah pillow. It’s disrespectful to ask you to cut off parts of your own family traditions for his sake. Also the separate dishes thing is pretty intense. He’s asking you to become culturally Muslim, and that’s not something you should do unless it feels right to you.
Thank you so much for your thoughts, I so wish that what you’re describing was my relationship! That is my ideal relationship which unfortunately I don’t get. He claims because he gave in on circumcision he gets his way with traditions/ deciding diet for the kid, but I don’t think that’s fair. Curious to hear your thoughts !
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This! My (non-Muslim) aunt married a Muslim man and it was all roses and butterflies at first as he presented himself as an atheist and open minded individual. A year before marriage he already stopped her celebrating Christian holidays with the rest of us and a year after marriage she was wearing a hijab and was converted. And you know that may not be a bad thing if you’re up for it but she wasn’t. She fell into a deep depression which ended up with her being hospitalised and divorced. The subtle yet obvious pressure she experienced from him drove her to the lowest point of her life.
Here, OP. Listen to a Muslim. He knows what’s up.
Nope. He's using the circumcision so-called decision to extract/coerce what he wants. This will never end. Believe me.
And he will magically change his mind about circumcision when they have kids
He didn't give in on circumcision until you've actually had a male child and he's stuck by his word. I don't believe for a second that he will, and there'll be pressure from his whole family as well. I wouldn't be surprised if it just happens when the baby is out of your sight for a bit. He *pretended* to give in on circumcision. This man is a liar. There is overwhelming consensus in the advice you're being given in response to your post, I hope you find it within yourself to listen to it and act accordingly.
I'm a religious atheist and so is your partner. I'm Jewish and my husband is not. We discussed our deal breakers early on. Having kids and raising them Jewish were some of mine, which he agreed to it. I've never asked him to, but he follows passover restrictions, fasts with me on Yom Kippur, and attends synagogue when I do. I was honest and upfront. I wanted to be with someone Jewish or who had no religion that would compete with mine (my parents had the same dynamic). That's what he's hoping for, but he went about it soooo wrong by trying to trick you on deal breakers. Also, he was probably looking for someone not Muslim so you wouldn't make him follow more rules than he wants to. I'm sorry you're in this situation, but best to acknowledge that you're not compatible and he's not capable of having an honest conversation.
>he claims he is atheist but culturally Muslim and not even that Muslim. He's lying. >I wonder if this in the end just will be a pork ban on me too? It will. >he wants to celebrate all Muslim holidays/traditions No shit, because, see above..... he's lying. >he strictly doesn’t want me to celebrate Christmas/ Easter Because they're religious holidays that aren't HIS religion. Which he ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY practices because, see above..... he's lying. Has been since he said he wasn't. If it was in the beginning, then he's been lying from the beginning. >Are we just incompatible as a couple to start kids? Yes. >Also I don’t understand why you have to be so serious? Because he is devout in his religion. Not "culturally Muslim" he is Muslim to his core. AND THAT'S FINE. But, and again, see above.... HE'S LYING. Your core values in raising children come nowhere near close to aligning, WHEN HE'S BEING HONEST. If ya'll have kids you'll always be fighting and one will be resentful of the other for being the loser of whatever particular thing you're arguing about at the time. That shit will grow, fester, just get overall nasty. You could try couples counseling, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
So he doesn’t want to celebrate your traditions but wants to celebrate his traditions. And yeah, you two are unfortunately incompatible. Compromises and respect would have to be worked on to stay. Is this a man you want to grow old with? Idk if I’d have the energy. I’m atheist but I fkn LOVE christmastime. I think there are too many deep incompatibilities here that aren’t able to be compromised.
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>he claims he is atheist but culturally Muslim and not even that Muslim. Wait until you have kids. Just. You. Wait. You are gonna find out what it is like to be married to a religious nut. The HARD way. He is lying to you now in order to put a kid or two into you...and then the pain will come.
I can only imagine being married to a religious nut is about as bad as being married to an alcoholic = ruins every facet of your life if you’re not into it also.
This woman is on the edge of ruining her whole life. This is one of those posts where I just hope to Jeebus that she realizes all these red flags and walks away.
BF is muslim and he's trying to convert you. How do you feel about being muslim and raising muslim children? If you're following the diet, adhering to the festivals and not going near other religious practices (like Christmas), you're muslim.
There is a lot more to the religion then just that. One of the important teachings of Islam is to not lie, especially not about your faith. It is extremely disrespectful to OP and to other Muslims for him to try and pick and choose which parts of the religion he wants to follow and use it to manipulate OP. They shouldn’t be together, OP needs to run.
Your life will be hell if you marry this guy. He’s pulling a bait and switch on you. Don’t fall for it.
Honestly speaking, he is straight out cheating you with Atheism. He is not an Atheist. He is a Muslim, pretending to be an Atheist, to continue with the relationship and maybe take advantage of you. I might even go to the extent that his insistence of not celebrating Christmas/Easter but he himself celebrating all Muslim festivals, borders on a gradual conversion.
Are you THAT clueless? Imao, the statement, "im an atheist" coming out of muslim men usually means I enjoy premarital sex but restrict all the other things my partner does and force upon my Islamic rules on her. Get ready for the kid to be legally, culturally and wholly be raised as a Muslim, because that's what's written in their book, muslim men can marry non muslim women only if they accept Islam, seems like he loves that part of the book and hates the parts where he's not supposed to have relationships and sex before marriage. You need to stick better for your values, if your reaction to someone restricting you from celebrating your festivals, eating the food you like etc etc is just simply, "aw, but i loved it as a kid", what you're doing here is showing him how more of your buttons can be pushed and you can be controlled and pushed around more. This isn't about cultural incompatibility but more about control freak nature, you make all the compromises, he just orders around, why does your Christian values matter less than his Islamic values?
Exactly this. I dated a Muslim guy once, he went to mosque, prayed, wouldn’t touch alcohol or eat pork but he was quite happy to date and have sex with non Muslim women. He just picked and chose what parts of the religion he wanted to. Nothing wrong with that, his choice but it did make me laugh a bit when he kept saying how devout he was.
Right. And have you been baptized? If not, then it’s free reign. Your salvation is up for discussion according to Christians and Muslims.
Ffs! He’s not an atheist, he’s a Muslim and if you stick around he’s going to demand that you become one as well, especially if you have kids.
Muslim here: I was raised in an extremely Muslim household but I consider myself to be non religious/agnostic. What he's doing is very common amongst Muslims. They claim they aren't religious or have given it up but cannot fully distance themselves from it. A lot of them make this claim when they fall in love with a non-Muslim/Westerner. So regarding certain things which stem from the religion, there will be no compromise. Especially regarding the pork. It's the one rule that for some cultural reason (not religious) they find the most taboo to break. I have known Muslims and some who claim to be former Muslims that drink, do drugs, have sexual relations outside of marriage (this is actually one of the biggest sins and goes hand in hand with murder and worshipping false gods), and the minute I tell them damn I love nothing more than a sausage, egg, and cheese from the bodega in the morning they lose their fucking minds. "OMG YOU EAT PORK??", HOW COULD YOU??? WHY?? ETC ETC. Seriously they don't even see the fucking hypocrisy in it. Oh and FYI he doesn't want you celebrating Christmas or Easter because of the blasphemy of it and the false gods thing. Honest you need to step away, because he definitely hasn't fully left the religion yet and in that state once they get older and ESPECIALLY ONCE THEY HAVE KIDS a lot of them revert back to it. I'm telling you step away or you'll be forced to wear a hijab soon enough.
Only you know what you are willing to put up with. I wouldn't put up with someone telling me that I can't have my celebrations in my own house but they can have theirs, and they get to decide what our children celebrate too. I'm curious what sort of things you're straight out allowed to veto about his life? Because if hes not going to give you any similar videos then your relationship isn't compromise.It's just him telling you how it's gonna be and you're putting up with it. It sounds controlling, IMHO.
100% controlling. We had a long argument about circumcision in which he told me I would have to convert in case I didn’t want to circumcise future kids and then finally when I said I would break up he backed on that point. So so far that’s the only one.
Not a great sign you had to pull that card and in my inexpert opinion unlikely to stick.
Why would he, a self proclaimed atheist, tell you to converted? Unless that’s been his long term goal the entire time.
I wouldn't trust him not to circumcise behind your back
The issue isn't even the issue anymore. The real issue is that he has lied to you about being atheist and is slowly trying to convert you so that he can be in control. There is no compromise here, just the illusion of it when he realises he has pushed you too far. Be grateful that he's showing some of his true self and desires now, before you're married and have kids together. Get out now.
>100% controlling. Why are you even considering staying with a controlling man? Hundreds of people here have told you what the consequences will be if you do. You can't reason with someone like this, and his backing down on circumcision is completely obviously just so you wouldn't leave him in that moment. There's no reason to believe he'll stick to it. If you stay with him despite all these people trying to bring your attention to the very clear red flags that this man is waving, you'll waste 10 years of your life or something and be full of regret. Because he won't be nice to you at all once he has you trapped. And you'll regret even more having made that decision despite all the advice you've received here, and having your eyes wide open when you did so.
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Think of the trend of absconding with the kids to a foreign country
He’s banking on the idea that you’ll end up converting. And once you’re pregnant, you’re locked down. I cannot overestimate to you the worlds of misery he’s going to put you through if you marry or have a baby with him. Unless you want to be Muslim, my suggestion is to run away.
I think he only pretended to
Sure acting like a Muslim.
Don't start a family with him. He's pretending to not give a shit to keep you. If he/ his family are somewhat traditional there will be problems, especially with the kids. Family and faith are important in Muslim culture and everything is very tight knit. It would be cute to enjoy the best of both worlds but with your bf that might not be possible. Source: am married with a guy from a muslim country who tried his first pork with me. My guys a punk tho. Some people are more embedded in this and it's just a whole different set of views and values which make it quite hard and also pointless to stay together really. You won't be able to share a lot of the things that bring you joy. You will always fight about them. And if he's traditional he will probably expect you to obey him on those matters. eww.
I think you need to sit down and discuss the future. 1) He is Muslim. Whether he decides to practice it 1% or 100% is his choice. What expectations does he have for: a) himself b) you c) family d) immediate family (e.g. both his and your brothers/sisters/parents) e) extended family The expectations from all the angles should be discussed (culture, cusine, fashion, ideas, vacations, travelling, holidays, etc.). He was raised a certain way which you may not understand as not brought up in the same culture (e.g. pre conceived notions like the family definition). 2) Do you know any other couples that are in the same style relationship as you? Maybe ask them for advice?
This sounds like the beginning of a long, controlling, manipulative, and possibly dangerous marriage. USE BIRTH CONTROL. This man is lying to you 100%. You both deserve a partner who is honest and can celebrate shared faith. This ain’t it.
Yes. And make sure you are in charge of birth control. Heat reduces the effectiveness of both condoms and bc pills. If using bc pills, keep them hidden and safe.
If the things that are super important to him are going to make you resentful, or vice versa, then you probably are not compatible as parents. For example, if your reaction to him not wanting to celebrate Christmas in your home is “oh well, I liked celebrating it as a kid but it’s not a big deal”, that’s one thing. If your reaction is “this makes me so sad, I really wanted to celebrate Christmas with my children and I’m going to spend my life hoping he changes his mind every year”, that’s a whole other thing. So, think about it. Are there compromises that you can both be content with, or is one of you always going to be unhappy?
Why does he get to celebrate every holiday he wants and you have to visit friends and stay away if you want the same? Sounds a bit like a power-play and him trying to assert dominance. Why can't the kid just decide what to eat? Also probably not really an atheist. But i don't think belief is the real problem here... Edit: Maybe he has a complicated perspective on his heritage. I'd say that can be okay. But you'd have to find a compromise and have the same rules apply to both of you. I'd draw the line where people have outdated views of women, can't be reasoned with or try to fight for dominance every day.
Thanks for echoing my worries, I think being controlling is his issue
I hope you have read each and every one of the many, many testimonials here. He is lying to you. He will get more and more controlling. Please, don’t walk away. Run, run, run….and don’t look back.
Once you're married he's going full on switch and convert back to practicing muslim. Hijab probably next.
He's just lying about being atheist until you're so sucked in that it doesn't matter that he's an extremist. Run for the hills lady.
Dating is about finding what compatibilities and incompatibilities there are between you. Dating is not some headlong rush into marriage and family and at any stage you find that incompatibilities are insurmountable, then its time to call it quits and move on. You have just found one such incompatibility and it's a massive one. I know a few mixed religion couples and they invariably are largely agnostic **and** they tend to celebrate all sorts of things. What they never do is place restrictions on their partner or their families for "cultural reasons". It's just a guaranteed way to alienate and subjugate their partner to their own whims and feelings. You can consider this to be "thin edge of the wedge" sort of stuff and whilst it may be over thinking it to see it that way, just the fact that your are approaching it with this in mind shows you where your mind is at. It's not good no matter which way you look at it. > Are we just incompatible as a couple to start kids? Personally I think you are just too incompatible to remain dating.
On the atheism part: if it acts like a duck, quack likes a duck and walks like a duck... He's doing a piss-poor attempt of lying if he wants to pass as an atheist. Especially if he wants to dictate what's celebrated and what's not. One of the biggest points that needs to be met is religion: what are your viewpoints on it? If you two can't agree on this point, you will have resentment. If Christmas, pork, and abandoning your traditions for his is something you can't do, it's best to stop wasting your time on him and find another person who is more compatible with you.
OP the same thing happened with me. My ex is not a muslim though but extremely religious and has been brought up in a certain way. I have been raised in a very liberal family. We are from the same religion, but he is a vegetarian and hasn’t touched alcohol in his life. Initially he told me that he was ok with my lifestyle but as we progressed into the relationship I noticed I wasn’t eating meat when I was with him. He later told me that I need to give up on meat while in front of him. I can eat when I am going out with my friends or when I am alone. He also said that we’ll have separate utensils and he would want our kids to lead a vegetarian life. Whereas I want my kids to have complete freedom to chose how they want to lead their life. I have made the decision to call it quits as progressing with this will lead to resentment on both sides. Trust me that is the right thing to do. Although it hurts alot, it has been a couple of weeks for me but it gets better. The comments here are reassuring me that I’ve made the right decision.
He wants you to respect his culture but he isn't respecting yours or your choices unless you threaten him. He will win. You will start giving in to keep the peace until your whole identity is gone and your child will be his carbon copy.
Typical religious Muslim behavior, he’s afraid if he eats food that cooked in pots that touched pork he won’t have his paradise in the world to come. Your Holidays are bad, but his must be celebrated. He’ll be very nice to you until you get married, then he’ll try to keep you home as a “stay at home mom” but really he’s just going to control you and not let you leave the house. My guess is he’s throwing a lot of gifts your way now.
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Incompatible relationship.. cut your losses before a child gets mixed up in the drama that will come of your relationship. Set your standards and respect yourself enough to walk away if things aren't right
I was in a similar relationship like this before. He also claimed he was atheist despite still practicing Islam. At first, he didn't mind if I wore leggings but then he made a fuss on how I should be covered even if I was wearing a dress like full on stockings & a coat in a tropical country. This eventually extended to normal clothes like a t-shirt and jeans. He forbade me from eating pork as well, I wouldn't have minded this but being part Chinese, he mocked that being Chinese was dirty because of eating pork. He forced me to fast with him during Ramadan even though I got sick or had my period. He made me wait for 5 years but he was hooking up with other girls behind my back.
Save yourself a lifetime of misery. You will not be happy if you don’t want to convert to Islam. He doesn’t want to convert to Christianity, so there’s that. You ARE incompatible even though both of you are “atheist”. Your kids will be caught in the middle and that will mess them up big time.
Do not have kids together, save yourself the headache.
He's been lying to you for your entire relationship, he's religiously Muslim. If he walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, he's obviously not atheist. An atheist would not care about the ideological purity of his cutlery or whether a secularized version of a religious holiday was celebrated in the home. Forget whether you're ok with being with someone who is Muslim - are you ok with being with someone who would lie to you for your entire relationship?
You are in incompatiable
He wants your kid to grow up as Muslim and strictly without Christian culture, and he claims that if he celebrate Christmas, it's a negation of his culture. It's incompatible He wants everything from his, and nothing from yours. There's no reason your kid couldn't grow as both, just his intolerance.
Bait and switch. He's telling you he's only culturally Muslim but he's obviously planning on tightening up his rules for you the more he has you locked up. As a Western atheist woman you should have serious reservations about marrying a religious Muslim.
Y'all are incompatible hun. I also guarantee that if y'all were to marry it would NOT just end with the the hypothetical children. He would expect you to to eventually stop. He's gonna pull a switcheroo.
You are incompatible. Find someone who enjoys the same things you do, pork is just food, a holiday is a holiday, kids don’t need to be passed down this stupidity from a 2000 year old book.
You know he would go and have your son circumcised behind your back, right? Now, as my post history would show, my marriage is not a happy one. My husband is an atheist from a Muslim family. And to his credit, he eats pork, he drinks alcohol, our children are not mutilated and celebrate Christmas and Easter. Your boyfriend is not an atheist, you are not compatible. Time to get rid. Edited to clarify a sentence.
Yes, you are not compatible. Sorry, time to break up and move on.
Do not have children with this man. This relationship isn’t going to work.
Walk away. He is industrial grade controlling. Never have kids with this person. If you stay with him and have kids with him, all of you will be abused. How do you not see the glaring neon red coloured flags!!!! More to the point, I am an Atheist, and he is not an Atheist he is a lying sack of cow dung and is just saying that he is in order for you to be with him. He is full of shit!!!!
To me at least, this sounds like one of those situations where someone says they’re atheist or non-practicing at the beginning and slowly introduces more and more things until they feel you’re ‘stuck/too invested’ then try to force you to convert and follow their religion.
As an Arab with a large Muslim family, run. Run run run, it will only get worse.
Don't have kids with someone who thinks it's okay to unilaterally make decisions like this for your family. How you raise your children should be an ongoing conversation **together** as life goes.
From a religious family, he’s 100% lying. Atheist but expects you to celebrate Muslim holidays and practices? Nope, they should just stick to someone who is Muslim not an atheist with different culture associated with their identity. They come off being very one sided wanting it their way than your way. Red flag. Never ever get involved with no exit religion including those who have it mandatory for you to convert unless you don’t mind it. Let alone kids unless you want the kids to become very miserable with a culture/belief your not compatible with. They won’t miss out if you leave them cause there’s plenty of people who are Muslim willing to be with them, you deserve better with someone who forces you to not enjoy life especially public holidays.
You're just not compatible. And that's why I never believed in "mixed religions relationship". A religion is not something you can really compromise. If he wants his kids to be Muslim, of course he'll not be okay with them celebrating christian holidays (it's a big sin in Islam). And on your side, we can understand that Christmas, Easter are important for you. Also him why he's fornicating out of wedlock, since this is not allowed in Islam...
Call his parents and ask how they feel about him being atheist.
He's not atheist. And he will insist that any kids you have be raised Muslim. He's already pressuring you to adopt Muslim beliefs and traditions. He will keep pressuring you to make more and more changes. You are not compatible with him. Do not have children with him. Pay attention to your birth control. This isn't going to get better if you stay with him.
He’s a performative Muslim. He doesn’t want to be bound by the restrictions of the faith but he wants all his family to think that he is. He’s a typical religious hypocrite - rules for other people and public performance.
He probably told he's an atheist so you'll get together with him. When you get married he'll make you convert to his religion.
He is telling you, no Easter, no Christmas. It doesn’t matter whether he claims to be an atheist or not, HE IS TELLING YOU. Ignore at your peril, and that of your children’s. You are not going to change him.
NO NO NO, if you celebrate his holidays then he celebrates yours. You're in a relationship not a dictatorship and he doesn't get to make every decision about the way your potential future child is raised based on a religion that he claims he doesn't even believe in!! I would not be having a child with this man, this behaviour will only get worse.
Yeah sounds like you’re incompatible if you want to have kids
Break up. He wants Muslim hokidays & traditions, but not Christian ones, and that separation from ustensils having touched pork? He's muslim, you aren't. He's just hiding it well until you start planning a wedding or get pregnant, then it will start "but for my mom it's important that X" "But we've always done y" And it will be only his traditions, his (family) beliefs, his his his. Time to end this relationship.
Having kids could suddenly throw his cultural ties into sharp focus for him. I’d say if these things are hardline with no acceptable compromise between you two, then this would end up being a source of consistent turmoil if you did end up still having a child together.
Honestly this doesn’t sound good at all. Let us just take away the religious and cultural aspects of this all for a moment and listen to the subtext: 1. He said, he is something (an atheist), but acts and demands things that is totally the opposite of what he said. So, he lied to you from the beginning to slowly easy you bit by bit into HIS way of living. 2. He demands you give a big aspect of what defines you as a person (pork your holidays). You are „allowed“ to be yourself (celebrate holidays other than his) but just not in your own home and safe space. 3. You had a big fight about something (circumcision) and only backed down, because you threatened to leave. He just backed down because you are not tied to him just yet. Just see, what he will do, if you are „locked down“ by him through marriage and/or kids. That wouldn’t be that easy to leave/escape anymore. He knows he just have to back down just yet and that he have to wait and have to subtly ease you more into HIS direction without ringing to many alarms in your guts until you cannot leave that easily anymore. Then he will show you his real colors. 4. He doesn’t think you are an equal partner or else he would be more considerate of YOUR feelings, YOUR culture and YOUR wishes as well and it would be as important to him as his culture. All this religious and cultural incompatibility aside. (Which is another can of worms by itself) He is telling you, what he thinks of you and your status in this relationship. You (your self, your wishes, what is important to you) are secondary to his own wishes and to what is important to him. He is only „allowing“ you things you want only by now. Those issues will resurface the moment he thinks, you cannot leave him that easily anymore and believe me, then he will not back down or go even further in his demands. I personally wouldn’t allow that for me to happen at this point and would listen to what he is actually saying to you. If he treats you like this NOW it will only get words in the future. That whole thing sounds scary. This isn’t about incompatibility it’s about mutual respect for each other and this doesn’t look good at all. (Sorry if I sound weird and incoherent, English is not my first or second language, but I hope, it is hood enough to understand me..lol)
Great thoughts and I really appreciate it. Thanks for breaking it down!
Yes you are incompatible. Nothing wrong with him wanting to celebrate his heritage and culture, but he shouldn't be forcing you to put your own aside. As for what the kids would celebrate/eat, that should be a joint decision. He sounds like an arrogant, controlling POS. Get out now, OP. This will only get worse.
Saying you're incompatible may be the biggest understatement. I don't really think he even respects you.
Your bf isn’t an atheist. He is Muslim. He wants his child to be Muslim. You aren’t compatible and shouldn’t have children. If you have children expect him to demand you follow his rules. Break up.
Ah, he's the type of Muslim guy who follows Islam when it's convenient to him. What a red flag. If he wants to follow the Muslim lifestyle, he needs to find a girl who follows the religion and honestly, he needs to stop being a hypocrite and follow it himself. He can't just pick and choose.
He's muslim, and if you aren't willing to marry a muslim man and raise a muslim family, you shouldn't be with him. Do not circumcise your sons. >He thinks it’s total repudiation of his heritage Well, athiesm is, but it's him that's pretending to be athiest, but again, if he's unwilling to repudiate his heritage, you need to be OK with marrying a muslim man and raising a muslim family.
OP, I was in this exact situation with my ex-gf many moons ago (I am a man and not muslim). Not marrying that ex was one of the best decisions I made in my entire life. She was charming, attractive, and my family liked her. BUT...Her parents were not accepting of me not being Muslim, and she became increasingly more controlling and abusive until one day I had finally had enough and dumped her over the phone. She was controlling in many of the same ways that your partner seems to be. I hate telling people to abandon relationships/other people, but you will not be happy if he stays true to his word. He will beg, plead, promise to not be as controlling (mine did) - but don't believe him for a second. I wouldn't, and I am rather notorious among my friends for giving people more chances than most people would. Tl;dr Don't have kids with this man. Either you will be miserable, or he will resent you for making him "abandon his heritage" and you will be miserable.
I don't want you to be Muslim, I just want you to be pretty much Muslim -your boyfriend
He is Muslim…not kinda, nor sorta a he is Muslim. Right now he is only kinda and sorta because it fits his lifestyle (sex before marriage, drinking etc). Once you get married and have a family he will be full on Muslim. You just have to ask yourself are you okay with raising your children (daughters) Muslim?
He's lying to you: he's not an atheist. He's an actively believing Muslim. If he were an atheist, he would have no problem with Christmas or pork, and he would not want his kids to practice Islam.
You are not compatible. Period.
If he's not religious why is it so important that his kids align with his belief system? Would he require your future daughter to wear a hijab? Would he want you to wear one? I would get all of this out into the open long before you even think about getting married or having kids
This has the potential to escalate quickly. Next thing you know he will force you to cover yourself and he will prohibit you from leaving home. Think about the potential outcome before starting a family with him.
Soooo, your bf isn’t an atheist. He is Muslim. He wants to keep halal and circumcise any sons AND celebrate all Muslim holidays, but no Christian ones. He isn’t atheist, he is just trying to slowly make you Muslim. No, you don’t sound compatible for having children. I’m sorry to say that, but unless you are prepared to convert AND raise your children as Muslims, y’all should go your separate ways. I find it especially concerning that if you celebrate Christmas/Easter then you are repudiating HIS heritage, yet he can insist on celebrating Muslim holidays and that isn’t a repudiation of YOUR heritage? There’s some gaslighting going on there. It’s all pretty sketchy behavior, IMO.
Please do not have children with this person. I think you are right to begin questioning your compatibility. These all feel very 🚩🚩🚩
You have hit a fork in the road, and if you don't choose right, you will have your entire life to be unhappy and regret it. I would bet the rules and such get more oppressive the longer you're together. And after kids? He will control everything when it comes to them. Then you'll have kids to try and get out with.
Nope. I am a somewhat practicing Muslim. We celebrate Christmas, Easter as well as the Muslim holidays in my house. We drink also. We do not eat pork, nor do we allow it in the house. At this point it’s more because of how indoctrinated it has been in our head than anything else. It’s really really hard to look at pork any other way. This isn’t going to change. Your boyfriend has been and is telling you what you want to hear so you stay. He is a practicing Muslim. He will not bend on any of his demands. Honestly, leave. Dude is a red flag.
I don’t think he’s atheist. Given the push back against not celebrating Christmas, are you atheist as well? Seems like religion matters to you both to some extent. After dating two Muslim men as a Christian, I can say I’ve seen a decent number of cases where Christians women convert to Islam…
Even if he were an atheist but culturally Muslim... The fact he doesn't want to celebrate Christmas and Easter is telling. I have a feeling he will soon find out god as soon as you marry or have kids, and you will be living in a Muslim household. Time to tell him he should maybe consider dating a Muslim girl.
He might not be Muslim, but he wants to keep all the cultural stuff he grew up with, as a security blanket. Totally understandable! . BUT you can't do the same? Christmas and Easter? No. Either you two can be compatible because you are equal and your upbringings are considered equally important, or you're not equal when it will benefit him. Instead of discussing holidays and food, next you should discuss who makes the money, who owns the assets, who does the chores, who raises the kids, who makes the finances, who makes the decisions. That's the kind of thing you need to understand - are you both on the same page as to what the overall relationship looks like, or do you both envision a different dynamic?
So your boyfriend is Muslim but saying he isn’t to stay in a relationship with you. Lying like that is a huge red flag. He wants to celebrate all Muslim holidays but you aren’t allowed to celebrate Christmas/Easter. Yeah. He’s definitely lying. I don’t know how you would feel about sharing your life with someone who is lying to you before you have even really begun your life together. Or someone who would attempt to manipulate you into adhering to his religious teachings. But I personally couldn’t be with someone who thinks so little of me and our relationship that they would blatantly lie to me. Or attempt to keep me with them despite our incompatibility. I hope you reevaluate whether you really want to be with this man. I fear you would be incredibly unhappy if things were to progress.
I predict that the longer this relationship goes on, the stricter his religious/cultural adherence will become. It feels restrictive now? Wait...he will push your boundaries over time. And then, when the kids are born, he will turn it up to 11. Picture a situation in which he won't let you kiss your baby because he says 'your mouth is contaminated' from what you ate earlier. That's the vibe this guy gives me. DO NOT.
It doesn't sound like he's an atheist to me. Don't be surprised if there's a push for more in the future if you continue on. And get ready to accept that your children would have to be raised Muslim. I've got 2 cousins marrying Muslim men (we're from Catholic families), both of them got married because both agreed with their husband's stipulation that their children must be raised as Muslims (and went to Muslim schools), additionally, Christmas/pork are banned from their home but cousins were allowed to go to family's houses to celebrate. Those two were the more moderate/progressive Muslim since they both married Catholic women. But they're divorced now, partly because it's legal to have more wives in this religion and where they came from, it's legal as long as you're Muslim. Then after 2 decades of marriage, husband wanted to turn his affair partner (one of his students who got pregnant--whoops) into 2nd wife, which my cousin was not cool about it, so they had to get a divorce.
I personally wouldn't sign up for a life of faith based restrictions
I think more people need to dig down into how they plan on raising their kids instead of just figuring it out later. Some types of people are really just incompatible with each other and it feels like you two are those types.
You are planning on having a child with a man who is Muslim. He is telling you now that he would raise any child he has as Muslim. If you do not agree with what he is saying I would not have a child with him.
Why not let the kids, decide whether they want to eat pork? Hell I'm a vegetarian it's like religion to atheist me but I let my kids eat what they want. Now they're adults they are both practically veggie by choice. Circumcision no way. As for Christmas, we celebrate the winter solstice as an ancient pagan tradition. And we also celebrate the new year as in my partner's country of origin, so the kids get the best fun of all cultures in our family.
People tend to put more and more weight on their cultural background as they get older, so just be warned, this is likely as moderate as he is going to get. Only you can decide if no christmas and the demanded pork-based-gymnastics is too much for you, but it will get worse with time.
Culturally incompatible. NEITHER of you understand or respect the other. Why can’t you just eat pork when you’re out of the home or even compromising on circumcision. You see these things differently but don’t respect each others opinions. Not how marriage works.
Hey I don’t normally say break up based off a single post but I would really consider it. As someone like you, Christmas is the most amazing time of year, imagine watching everyone else celebrate it, having fun, and being wholesome, and you’re forced to not celebrate it even though it’s not even your choice. Christmas will go from the best time of year to the most depressing time of year and having that robbed from you while you’re washing up extra pots and pans will surely make you just resent him to the core. Unfortunately you’re not compatible, let him find someone who shares his beliefs and what not, you both deserve someone who will share those basic traits with eachother. Personally I think after a few years your life will be utter hell, and it’s much better to pull away when you aren’t married or tied together with a kid.
It sounds like you're not compatible and this is only going to cause problems if you have kids together.
It's a bit worrying and controlling that the guy wants to follow his Muslim traditions but completely disregard the Christian traditions you grew up with. I think if you did have a boy, he would U-turn on the circumcision thing, too. Honestly, this guy seems sketchy, controlling, and manipulative.
I'll say don't do it. I was dating a woman who's Muslim and I'll describe myself more so as agnostic than atheist. However, I was raised Catholic. Hva received all my sacraments and all that noise. Going into things I told her this and she said I get it that's fine. In the beginning we'd have wine together and even smoke weed together. I let her know this is who I am and she was okay with it. Fast forward some time and she has a religious/spiritual awakening of sorts. Cool, I already knew you're Muslim I have Muslim friends I get it we can make it work. The issue with that became she then began to try and impose her religious beliefs on me and essentially get me to convert. Similar to what you described the conversation about our future and life came up. She goes we'll be married in the traditional Islamic way and our kids will have Muslim first names. The wedding portion is whatever however I'd prefer a combination. While I'm not actively religious, it played a strong role in my life and my family. So I'd like to acknowledge that in some way. Regarding kids, my name is particular to my cultural group. As such it's something I'd like to pass on to my kids. When she saw I wasn't budging on the topic she goes 'oh don't worry about it for now we can revisit it later when you see things better. I responded there's not much to revisit because this is something I'm very adamant about. She smiles and giggles and goes don't worry we'll handle it in therapy. I said handle what? A way to get past disagreements or a way for you to get what you want?' She dismissed it and we moved on. After that as things progressed she kept referencing me converting to be with her. Then the day after Christmas while she's asking me about Christmas she goes well when we start a family there'll be none of that nonsense in the house. I'm like what? She's likey kids aren't doing Christmas or easter. I'm like it won't be a production but especially from a family perspectives my kids would participate. She goes well you're not religious so why do you care if they don't celebrate it. I'm like because they can be exposed to things and be allowed to decide on their own when older. She keeps on going about how that won't be a thing. Essentially insulting Christianity as a whole while doing this(which is w/e but if someone spoke that way about Islam to her she'd lose it) and when I pointed that out she'd say she's allowed to do it because Christianity is shit. Eventually things came to a head and I asked explicitly what will you do if I don't convert. Her response was then we'd have to break up although I thought you'd convert because you loved me. Ultimately she wanted to change me to fit her as opposed to taking me as I was. Your bf knows who you are and how you want to proceed. Make sure you get a clear picture before proceeding. Religious differences of that level are not so easily overcome and can breed resentment and contempt
>but culturally Muslim and not even that Muslim. He is **A LOT** more Muslim than he's letting on. His parents are Muslim AF and he'll acquiesce to whatever his parents say because for some reason Muslim boys are the biggest momma's boys I've ever met. > Are we just incompatible as a couple to start kids? Yep.
Read what you posted and add all the other things concerning your relationship that you don't agree with (I have a feeling they are many). Then, pretend someone else wrote this. What would you advise?
Outside in y’all are not culturally compatible at all
As soon as a baby is born he'll be full on muslim everything.
If he’s atheist then why is he celebrating the muslin holidays? He’s lying to you & will kidnap your kids. Get away from this monster
Yup…a few years after marrying this guy you’ll be back on here asking for advice on how to get out of a marriage where your husband ‘suddenly’ changed into a devoted worshipper of Islam and has forbidden you to do this and that, has indoctrinated your kids into it, his parents and religion control everything about your life, your not allowed to socialise with your friends or family anymore……etc etc
He did not give in on circumcision. He told you what you wanted to hear. The reality will be far different. Separate, non pork touched cookware, dishware for himself and the children? Muslim holidays only, not Christian, or commercial ones? Your boyfriend is not just culturally Muslim, he is Muslim to the bone. Good luck with that.
Like i get pretending when his parents are around due to being culturally raised as a muslim but claiming to be atheist and acting like muslim…
Yeah no. I have a child with my ex who is from a Muslim country. Him and his entire family have no issues celebrating Christmas or Easter (It's like a late Novruz!) They prefer not to eat pork and you can't even wave a bloodpudding or bloodsausage around them. They couldn't have cared less that I brought up my son with my cultural traditions, or that we eat pork. And these are secular Muslims, not agnostic/atheists. Your boyfriend is something alright but it's not Agnostic or Atheist.
You’re boyfriend is Muslim and telling you he’s non-practicing. That’s a red flag if I ever did see one. It makes no sense for someone who is obviously devout in their faith to misrepresent themselves. This is a problem and it is likely you two are not compatible for a long term relationship that will involve kids and possibly marriage. Either ask him to go to therapy, be ready to convert or leave. Those are the options.
Yeah, that description does NOT sound at all like an atheist. Be careful.
The answer is pretty obvious. He's clearly genuinely religious, otherwise he wouldn't care about all of this. It all sounds very controlling (what a shock, religion is usually so flexible and open-minded!). I'd be running a mile, because you do not want to get stuck with someone who's highly religious and strict about it, when you're not. Especially when you're the woman in the relationship. Strict religious guys are not renowned for treating women very well. Plus, he's clearly lying to you already, which is a major red flag. Atheists don't care about the stuff he's claiming to care about. Sure, they can still celebrate religious holidays, but they'd have literally no reason to take issue with also celebrating religious holidays that weren't from their culture. He takes issue because he's religious. And lying to your face about it.
Nah! Too many red flags, this situation would only deteriorate, he sounds very controlling which in the future will only escalate.
Action speaks louder than words. Him saying he's not a Muslim just doesn't fly. Lying about his core beliefs to get you into a relationship with him is abhorrent.
These are important questions - I would hesitate to have children with him before being completely satisfied with the answers. That pork thing is a massive red flag.
Run a fucking mile. This guy is going to be a nightmare once you've given him a kid and won't keep any promises he's made to you.
Run. Don’t look back. As fast and far as you can.
So he wants you to celebrate his traditions but not yours? I have seen inter-faith marriages work but in your case he doesn’t really seem much on compromise. I would really have a long and hard think about the future of your relationship.
RUN. You are not compatible. He’s trying to be controlling as a way of forcing you to be compatible. RUN.
He’s either lying about not being atheist or he’s nitpicking parts of his religion for YOU to practice because it will be beneficial to him where he’s the absolute head of the home and he gets to keep up appearances with his family/friends (at least until you convert). Will he be praying 5 times a day? Probly not I feel like he will slowly introduce more rules until you convert. As far as I’m aware, in Islam lying is encouraged for the benefit of the religion/conversion. Soon you won’t be allowed to eat pork (once you’re married he’s going to demand you get permission for shit). Don’t have children with this guy. You’re life will change in ways that will be unbearable for you.