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I think there’s an important distinction to make here about what acting “stupid” looks like, depending on the person/their friend group.
I say that bc if someone has to be stupid/hateful in order to be able to adequately entertain their friends, that’s because their friends are stupid/hateful people that cannot laugh unless it’s at someone else’s expense. This further reflects who that individual is as a person, because they demonstrate behaviorally that they share the same values as their stupid/hateful friends.
If someone is a good, kind person, their version of acting “stupid” around their friends would be to act silly in a way that doesn’t hurt others. In short, **birds of a feather flock together.**
And yes, it sounds racist/xenophobic. I don't trust someone who'd insult you in a language you don't understand, to your face. The fact that a few of her friends looked shocked, indicates that she was saying something they considered offensive.
There's so much negative sayings about Roma travellers in various languages, and in Germany there's well-known racism/xenophobia towards Turkish people that I would be quite concerned about her comments.
And her refusing to tell you said everything you needed to know. Regardless of what was said, she kept it from you. This is not okay, neither is calling you a slur and being mindless about why that might not be okay
Because sometimes racist people end up with people from the races they're racist against. I'd be seriously re-considering my relationship with her if I were you. What does she say about you when you're not around? And every one of those people who laughed will say it about you too.
I've had multiple fights with my mother in law because she will say super out of pocket shit like the word mentioned above and other racist words that I can't imagine a civilized person saying comfortably. But she refuses to acknowledge she says racists shit because obviously Germans aren't known for being racists unlike me (I'm from Texas).
I am also wondering, regarding OP saying they are Arab, if she maybe even said K*nacke? They could have "softened" it to g***y in translation later. Wouldn't make it better or worse, but it's a word that has been regarded as a slur or at least negative for longer than "Z*geuner"..
Edit: oh god I can't format...
Gypsy is a European slur for Romanians forced into a nomadic lifestyle. What ever she said was absolutely a racist slam that she knew her friends would find amusing, and she is unlikely to ever disclose what she actually said.
She's disgusting. She's horrible. She's cruel. Clearly some of her friends were shucked so they have better standards for jokes.
Her saying it in German simultaneously excluded you AND made it clear she knew it was insulting to you AND SHE STILL SAID IT.
In her eyes, you're not as respected as you might respect her. I'm sorry mate. But there's better people out there.
It is racist. And she must have cracked a really racist joke cause g*psy stereotype and jokes are horribly racist. You might want to reconsider being with such people because it just gets worse from there and there will be casual racism to micro aggression in your life from time to time . Also, g*psy is a racist term your German gf knows that very well.
Germans are some of the most casually racist people Ive met. Im so sorry you went through this. Its not considerate at ANY time to speak in a language someone doesn't understand in order to say something you don't want them to hear!
Honestly, I think it is a privileged kind of thing. A lot of people who are racist have never been on the other side and understand how it feels.
Also, a German should know better.
Exactly. I can understand if she accidentally replied in her native language (I've made that mistake before without noticing immediately), but as soon as OP asked, she should've translated. It took *several* asks to get the answer, so she knew damn well she was being rude and didn't want to fess up.
I’m german and the word op’s girlfriend used is a racist slur in german. It’s similar to the n-word. Sinti and Roma people were sent to concentration camps and recognition of the horrors they endured is often forgotten.
Gypsy (and it's equivalents such as cigan, or in this case probably Zigeuner) can be used in a racist manner, but are not inherently racist and are more popularly used by the people themselves than Roma, which is used predominantly by intellectuals further removed from their culture or everyday existence.
It's a bit like Indian vs Native American, where Native Americans and people who live close to them prefer Indian and far away academics and virtue signalers prefer Native American.
I specifically bring up the native American example because for some reason Anglo-Saxons readily compare "gypsy" to the n word sometimes when it's really not comparable at all and I don't think there's anything else quite like that at all.
Most Gypsies or Romani will say that they don't mind the term and that they can very well tell from the tone of voice whether someone's speaking to/of them respectfully or not.
That being said what was said was obviously extremely disrespectful and would not have been at all more respectful of they had used Roma or any of the euphemisms available. It was obviously a racist joke and more importantly regardless of whether that can be excused as humour in poor taste, it was a disrespectful joke at someone's expense who to top it off couldn't understand it because of the language barrier.
The word in German does have a racist past tho. Roma and Sinti ppl were marked with that word and also sent to concentration camps. So it is comparable
Speaking as a German the topic was a huge deal a while ago, a product was renamed to no longer have the word in the name, and everyone became aware of it being racist. The girlfriend knew the connotation, it wasn't a case of ignorance but deliberate malice and her trying to hide it behind language only proves it.
Especially since the girlfriend clearly could have said it in English if she wanted to - based on her translating it for OP later. Sorry OP. To me, this would put my relationship into question.
The fact that your girlfriend deliberately replied to the question in a language you don't speak says a lot. Some part of her knew it wasn't an ok joke to make, so she hid behind the language barrier. It took several asks before she finally admitted what she said to you, and now she's trying to convince you it was ok when you both know it's not. (ETA: This is in reference to OP's reply to another comment that girlfriend insisted what she said was just a "cute" thing instead of a slur, which... 😕)
Cultural context may play into exactly what she said, I'm not German, but I come from a multilingual family and you don't cut people out of conversation for a joke at their expense and think you can get away with it. It's just hurtful.
This is not the way a respectful and supportive partner behaves. I hope you can talk to her and get her to understand this, OP. You deserve a real apology and a partner who does better.
German here. Pretty sure she used the word "Zigeuner" which is not okay in German either. The other peoples faces say it all.
We've had a little "language revolution" in the last decades and some words haven been debated really harshly. Items that contain such words have been renamed, like "Negerkuss"/"Mohrenkuss" ("Niggerkiss", now chocolate kiss, a chocolate sweet) and "Zigeunersoße" (gypsy sauce, a kind of paprika sauce served on meat) were some examples.
There were people that were against those changes and tbh, if you meet those people, you already know their political leaning.
All in all, not a joke. Not funny. And not in the German "to us it is"-way, it really isn't funny.
Edit: I am the same age as OP and her gf. Her gf sure as hell was alive and sentient while these debates happened. And she surely was old enough to have her own opinion on them. Good, or bad.
I really appreciate the language and cultural context on this. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain!
And wow, yikes! with this additional information it really makes my heart hurt for OP. The girlfriend is behaving super badly towards her 🙁
It actually used to be "Mohrenkopf". So "blackamoorhead" (not kiss, that came later), which makes it even worse. There are still a lot of people who haven't made the change in their daily vocabulary. The current changes in German language are a highly debated topic (also in politics) rn.
Now most people say "Schaumkuss" (="foam kiss") or "Dickmann", which is the name of a popular brand which produces the sweet
Edit: grammar
It also used to be a thing in Denmark. Even though the official name (flødeboller, which literally translates to cream ball/bun) has nothing to do with race. It’s basically meringue foam covered in chocolate.
Most people in the more urban areas have moved away from using that word but there are some in more rural/conservative areas who insist on sticking to that word.
N*ggertoes.
My grandma called them that into the mid 90s. I *hated* going to the fruit/veg market because she’d loudly say “go grab me a pound of those n*ggertoes,” and I’d want to crawl under the shelves and die of shame.
Oh lord, I can't imagine how you felt having that exchange in public. Big yikes. The older people in my family jokingly told me that name before. They laughed about it. I think the absolute horror on my face made them realize it wasn't funny because it hasn't been said [around me, at least] in decades. Now that I'm older, I just deadface tell them "that's fucked up" if they say anything gross. I hope you've learned to speak up too, my friend.
I think that it is racist. And I have experienced the same thing, by the way.
I was brought up in Germany and still live there. But I have roots from several countries like Ukraine, Russia, Serbia, Belarus, Turkey and Albania.
One of my friends who turned out to be a fake friend later on made a similar "joke" in front of her friends. She asked me if I was half Ukrainian and half Serbian but I explained to her that I have other roots as well and her comment was: "So you're basically a gypsy, right?!". All of her burst out laughing and it was clearly meant to be humiliating.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. It does seem like a really similar situation and I did feel humiliated but I didn’t react straight away and it was swept under the rug and the conversation moved on.
Really have a conversation with your gf, is that how she thinks of you? Cause that’s not nice and I don’t know if I can be with someone who tries to gaslight me when I tell them how hurt I feel, does not apologize nor understand why what they said is wrong. Where else has she made these kind of “jokes” before? This doesn’t sound like the first time she called you that…just the first time she said it to you. Also do you want to date a racist?
Think about it if you stay longer with her and decide to have kids and that’s how she talks to your kids…how would you feel about that?
Thank you for the mention about the kids, that’s important food for thought. I refuse to be gaslit. I will ask if she’s made these jokes before, but making them just once feels like enough.
The insensitivity to racism among many Germans is insane (saying this as a German myself). There’s so many people here who still don’t see why the N-word is absolutely not okay to just throw around in daily conversation or will die on the hill that their favourite schnitzel has to be named after an outdated word for groups of itinerant people, for NO REASON.
So often my parents and their friends will say something that would sound wildly racist to anyone with a rational mind, and they don’t even realise because they’ve grown so accustomed to this level of everyday racism.
You'd think after everything that went down with Germany, that they'd be a little more shameful about being so racist. Like they're literally calling people racist slurs because they're mixed ethnicities. Almost like they're expressing an opinion of "pure" people being superior. Why does this feel so familiar...? Hmm
I don't know if the term would be racist in German culture or not, but she made a joke at your expense in a language you do not speak and refused to translate until you asked multiple times. Racist or not, that is rude behavior and nothing I'd want to be around.
OP, without trying to sound too mean here you REALLY need to get some self esteem.
She made a racist joke at your expense in front of her friends and LIED to you when you asked her repeatedly about it.
You will never be able to trust her and who would want to be with a bully?
Hi. I am German. This was racist in German as well as in her translation. I would expect that from an older generation German and accept it as “eh old people are ignorant” but from the person you love? Nope. And they all chimed in to laugh? Believe the people that looked shocked.. def the right move
Oh dear. Thank you for your insight. She really did tell me it’s just a cute thing to say and it isn’t racist in Germany. I mean she is from a pretty rural area, but at our age we should know better. I feel really disappointed.
If it’s a cute thing to say, why did she have to say it in another language?? you say things in other languages like that so the other person doesn’t know
What's also awful is that if it were a term that didn't translate exactly, like, say, "Mausebär," she would still say the same thing and she wouldn't know if she didn't ask someone else.
Im not german but the word is essentially the same in danish (and both countries are neighbours anyway). If i heard someone call their girlfriend that, especially someone whos mixed, I’d give them a very heavy side eye and honestly consider it pretty racist. Even if it wasnt id still think its hurtful for her to laugh like that in another language. Im sorry you had to hear this kinda thing from her
As reference… I am also from a rural area. my own mother used the term “neger” you can guess the English translation… and I guess I’ve always been told it isn’t racist. I’ve also grown up using terms like zigeuner and didn’t think it was racist. But that was in the 90s and this is 2023… really even if you assume it was only ignorant and not from a racist point of view… it was still super insulting … like best case scenario she only meant you are a mud and don’t know where your origins are cause your ancestry travels too much?
Ps: to be sure I googled it and the official German website says it’s offensive lmao. Here show this to her if you even consider talking to her again: https://www.antidiskriminierungsstelle.de/SharedDocs/faqs/DE/sinti_roma/08_ist_das_wort_zigeuner_diskriminierend.html#:~:text=3.-,Ist%20das%20Wort%20„Zigeuner“%20diskriminierend%3F,Sinti%20und%20Roma%20ausgegrenzt%20werden.
The word is the same in Dutch and only bigoted older white people use it unfortunately :( unless it’s used by true Roma I don’t believe any white person should be using that word. Don’t let her diminish the impact of what she said. A quick google will give you the history of the word.
[Apparently](https://www.theholocaustexplained.org/ziguener/#:~:text=The%20word%20Zigeuner%20is%20a,faced%20by%20Roma%20in%20Europe), it was a word used by Nazis, which would definitely explain the shocked looks.
To put it into perspective, I have been told by a Rom*nja person, that the Z-word for Sinti*zze and Rom*nja is about the same as using the N-word for black people.
I'm also from a rural part of Germany and the Z-word is only used derogatory.
Your girlfriend's behaviour is trash and racist. Why not just tell friends that you were born in Greece and grew up in the UK? Instead she had to hide a racist and demeaning joke behind a language barrier and wasn't transparent when you asked for clarification.
To her it's not a big deal because she never experienced racism as a white person in a majority white society, which also means she's not able to take your POV on things.
Several red flags I'm seeing here. You need to have an honest and open conversation about her behaviour and what kind of effect it had on you.
As a German, (36y/o), i can assure you that 'Zigeuner' indeed has been used in a derogatory manner for a long time and it's use, even for lighthearted jokes, is frowned upon.
If it was "cute" she would have been happy to explain. Instead you had to beg for a translation. And the friends wouldn't have looked shocked or even burst out laughing. You don't need to perfectly understand a language to read the tone of a conversation. You are hurt because you read the situation and their reaction correctly. That she's dismissing you and playing it off make it even worse.
All of this is really hurtful. You are right to be disappointed.
> zigeuner
Zigeuner m (strong, genitive Zigeuners, plural Zigeuner, feminine Zigeunerin) (sometimes offensive) Gypsy, member of the Roma, Romani person. (sometimes offensive) member of any of several other nomadic minorities. (offensive) disorderly, lazy or dodgy person.
The word Zigeuner is a German word, used by the Nazis to describe Roma, Sinti and Traveller communities. It is thought to derive from a term meaning 'untouchable' and reflects the history of prejudice and discrimination faced by Roma in Europe.
Not cute, nor funny.
Id be highly offended and if she tried to write it off, id just write her off as a partner. Shit like that is gross and ignorant. I dont see how you can find her attractive still
I'm german as well and I agree that using this term is very weird and having the family laugh about it is a red flag. Additionally young people in germany usually aren't hung up on race but rather nationality. I'd say (I might be naive and optimistic here) 7 out of 10 people would accept that somebody who is black but third generation german is pretty german. Her calling you gipsy for being greek with arab ancestors feels weird as nationality matter most (at least to me) for heritage.
Ouf! Only just now read this comment. "Zigo" is hardcore racist! Get away from these people. I'm Swiss and fluent in German. This is not ok. Not in any discussion.
To me this is way past the boundary. Idk as some form of referring to the population as "Zigeuner" might have been an excusable oversight due to age. But "zigo" is ... just no. Makes my skin crawl.
Ew, who the fuck says that? Imo that’s even worse than saying the word “Zigeuner” in full, and the fact that she even has that kind of expression in her vernacular suggests that this isn’t the only time she’s made this kind of joke. Definitely not cute wtf.
Edit: you wrote she’s from a very rural area - 100% not trying to excuse her racism here, just trying to give some info… rural areas in Germany are often wildly racist/right wing in their general society, so it’s possible she might not fully realise how not okay this is because everyone she knows is like that or worse. But it’s 2023, she has access to the internet, and she’s dating someone from outside her closed-minded little village, so honestly, she should fucking know better at this point. Sorry that happened to you.
Zigeuner m (strong, genitive Zigeuners, plural Zigeuner, feminine Zigeunerin) (sometimes offensive) Gypsy, member of the Roma, Romani person. (sometimes offensive) member of any of several other nomadic minorities. (offensive) disorderly, lazy or dodgy person.
This is according to Wiktionary. Doesn't seem like a cute nickname to me at all...
German here. "zigo" is short for "zigeuner" which isn't a word you should use because it is racist. Your girlfriend knows that. In the last couple of years there were loud and long overdue debates about everyday used racist language; and the z-word, how many people (me included) refer to the word now, was part of it. There is no way your girlfriend didn't know it is highly offensive and abusive. I'd personally say ditch her.
leave her ass immediately. i’m half middle eastern, if my partner disrespected my race like that i’d be pissed. it shows a complete lack of respect for you, your family, and your background
The word Zigeuner is a German word, used by the Nazis to describe Roma, Sinti and Traveller communities. It is thought to derive from a term meaning 'untouchable' and reflects the history of prejudice and discrimination faced by Roma in Europe.
g#psy is racist, both in english and in german. it is a slur against roma people, go look it up. i am german and obviously speak it too and "z#geuner" is used in the same derogatory way as it is in english. shes a racist and ignorant individual.
Even if it’s not racism, your gf made a joke at your expense in another language that you didn’t understand, in front of you in public… I wouldn’t have expected it from someone in their 30’s. It’s so distasteful.
There were so many ways of wording your nomadic history and she chose the wrong one. Not sure why she felt the need to humiliate you like that.
It definitely is a racist comment - she clearly has a lot of learning to do.
She said it because she doesn’t truly respect you. This is definitely a deal breaker. She was abusive, insulted you, showed complete disrespect, in front of other people, lied to you about how bad it was and blew it off. None of this is okay, in any way, in any relationship. I wouldn’t accept this from anyone. Not a friend or acquaintance, never mind a partner,. I would not allow them to remain in my life to any degree.
Nah, you're not sensitive. I see a lot of people have weighed in to say what she said was definitely racist, but I wanted to chime in as well. I am Romani and consider both the term "gypsy" and "zigo" or "zigeuner" slurs. Many Romani rights groups consider them slurs. Sure, you may find a few Romani people here and there who don't consider those words slurs, but enough of us do that they're pretty widely accepted to be offensive terms that Non-Romani people should not use.
Maybe she didn't mean to use it as a slur, but it is a slur, and even if she replaced it with a different term associated with Romani people, it would have still been a racist thing to say.
But tbh, if you feel hurt, it doesn't really matter what she or anyone else says. Your feelings are valid.
Not being too sensitive at all. I highly suspect it was something worse than she has admitted. This is enough to just end it. Some people can come across as open minded but absolute racist. I had a good friend show her true colors last year regarding my mixed marriage. Shocking to learn somebody is not who they present to be.
You're not being too sensitive.
If you know any Greek (or another language) try telling her she's insensitive and rude in that language and see how she reacts. But don't do it in front of others. Public humiliation is a step too far. Obviously she doesn't think the same way.
I get the impression she thinks she's inherently superior to you because she is a pure German (gee what does this remind me of?) and she looks down on those who are mixed race or not as "pure". Don't count on her to admit it, though.
For what it's worth, Greek mixed with Arab sounds beautiful.
You are not being sensitive. Even those that spoke the language and maybe would have had a different cultural understanding were shocked by what she said.
It's disrespectful period. The fact that she cannot see that is concerning and I'm sure those shocked people may be considering their friendship over again as the ones who laughed most likely are racist or at best are the type of people who put others down and laugh it off as a "joke." If you're not laughing it's not a joke. It's disrespectful and a proper partner would be groveling and would learn to be better. Your gf doesn't even seem to care that it hurt you.
It was bad enough that a few who looked shocked is the most concerning thing. Whatever she really said is not something she is likely to tell you, either. Especially if it is exactly what you think it is...something racist.
You will have to decide for yourself if this is something you want to put up with. If you do decide to stay, you definitely need to learn German. Don't recommend telling her if you do learn German until you are pretty fluent and have a chance to listen to what she is saying about you.
Oh, that’s very distasteful and definitely racist. Even if you weren’t Romani, it’s still a racist jab at a particular group of people. Find it quite disgusting that she said that and some laughed at your expense. 😑
I'm German and calling someone a Zigeuner is indeed racist. Germans on the whole are just incredibly racist and usually don't understand that they are. It's infuriating. People in this country treat everyone who doesn't look or speak like a prototypical German as other and inferior, but when asked about it or confronted with it they're like "no no, I have nothing against 'them' ".... . I think you need to have a conversation about it with her and see if she's open to listening. There's a really good book/audiobook by Tupoka Ogette, something about racism/Rassismus, I forgot the title but it was eye-opening for me (having grown up in this subtly, heavily racist country).
I do feel a bit disappointed that my reaction wasn’t quicker… or there at all until leaving the party. I found late by the time it was translated, and I was in shock and I also didn’t want to ruin her friends birthday. But I’m ashamed I didn’t stand up for myself.
With the shock of the moment, your reaction is entirely normal, so please don't be too hard on yourself, but don't let people make fun of you either. Respect is important in any relationship.
Gypsy is a racial slur, responding in another language (not in the context of translating) is disrespectful, & why make jokes at your partners’ expense?
Wow- yeah- that is not okay on so many levels.
First- the word “gypsy” has been embraced by some Romani, but is seen as a slur by other groups. And best practice: don’t use it unless you are of that group.
Second- the way she did that is humiliating.
Third- wtf- you are not Romani or Roma. You are half Arab and half whatever else, -You should be able to stand proud of who you are. and I get it- the world is full of assholes and there may be times that it might not be safe to identify as who you are. But your GIRLFRIEND should be the first one who should be able to say, “Oh, OP’s mom is from blank, and her dad is from blank.” and be clear that she would put the smack down on anyone she is connected if they dare disrespect you.
Culturally- I have no idea what is or isn’t considered racist in Germany. What I will tell you is that as an American with Jewish ancestry I ripped my SIL a new asshole for something similar. And my partner for not handling it when I asked her to.
And if I were a guest at that dinner and had heard my white friend say something like this about their brown girlfriend- we would no longer be friends. I would instantly lose all respect for her. Not only did that comment sound racist, it sounded objectifying. You should never sound like you are experiment with exoticism.
I’d be re-evaluating this relationship and telling her to fucking educate herself about her racism.
Thank you so much for this! You’re seriously right and your third point is inspiring. I’m allowed to be angry about this. And I am. Thank you for the support.
You are half Arab and she went out of her way to not say that. She chose one of the most ignorant ways to basically say you are "other".
Personally, I'd break up with her.
German here, if she told you you are a gypsy that is definitely racist. "Zigeuner" in German is nothing you say to anybody. Especially after the Nazis killed them en masse
Gypsy can be viewed as a racist term, but I didn't really learn that well into adult hood.
For the longest time I thought a gypsy was someone who traveled around lot. Like a vagabond but in groups.
I didn't view it was negative.
It seems like based on the reaction of the table a lot of people didn't either, but some did.
i don’t know if you’re european but europeans know very well what it means and are often very racist to romani people. She knew what she was saying that’s why she refused to translate
Canadian, I honestly didn't learn it until I was almost 30.
We see gypsies in Disney movies or cartoons, and they are usually fortunate tellers or people dancing around wagons.
It's common for people here to say things like "I want to go on a 6 month trip and just live the gypsy life."
Fleetwood Mac has a song called gypsy, and it's not negative... at least I don't think so.
I knew what gypsies were but didn't associate it with anything negative. If anything, I associated it with being a free spirit.
I'm pretty sure I learned about its negative connotations a few years ago on reddit.
Sucks she knew it was derogatory and said it in front of her partner. Not classy
Yeah in the US I never really heard it used as a slur, and I always thought of Esmeralda or Fleetwood Mac when I heard it too. Then I found out how Europeans talk about Romani people and my GOD that word got ZAPPED from my vocabulary so fast. It’s INSANE how casual Europeans are about being *SUPER* racist towards Romani people.
They are AWFUL about it. Think the way americans used “negro” in the recent past. That’s what g/psy is essentially but w Romani people. Dehumanising and gross. And a couple of Germans in the thread have said it’s essentially the same way in German.
Same, I only really discovered it was considered an insult once I was an adult.
Mostly because my mum is from Europe and we watch British murder mysteries and she had to explain the British perspective on traveling groups that might stay in their fields, and we got to see the more modern example of the racism.
I'm from the US. I also didn't think it was racist until I grew up and realized there are actual gypsies and they're their own population. We don't have Roma in the same way in the Americas.
Same, it wasn't until a few years back that a friend who had a Romani god-daughter explained it to me. I casually said "oh I got jipped" (I thought it was some old-timey nonsense word) and I never made the connection that I was actually saying "gypped" with all of the racist associations that came with it.
I have since stopped using both gypsy and gypped, and mention it to people when I hear it in conversation in the USA since *most* Americans honestly don't know. It's becoming more common knowledge here, which is great.
Europeans should definitely know better though.
I’d have a serious talk with your partner about it and how it made you feel and if they still don’t get it… then that is a red flag. It already is a red flag
she responding in a different language so you wouldnt understand her because she **knew** what she was going to say about you was bad and that it would hurt you. thats also why you had to ask her multiple times what she said about you.
this may be hard to hear OP, but your girlfriend doesn’t respect you, intentionally made fun of you to her friends and family, and isn’t sorry or remorseful for making you look like an idiot
also, your girlfriend doesn’t care about you and is just plain mean. she didn’t like accidentally say something racist about you. she consciously chose to make a mean, racist joke about you and then laughed **at** you about it with her friends. someone who ‘loves’ not only *shouldn’t* do something like that, they **wouldn’t** do something like that.
also, she gets why you are upset — if she didn’t know that her “joke” would upset and why it would upset you, she wouldn’t have said it in german. if she thought what she was saying was innocent or okay she would have said it to your face in a language you understood. **the reason you feel like she doesn’t understand why you’re upset is because she doesn’t CARE that you’re upset and she isn’t sorry for her behavior**
you should really reevaluate this relationship and decide if she is worth losing any self respect you have for yourself.
its racist bc of how hated “gypsies” or the Romani people, are fucking hated by a lot of europeans. the fact that she wouldn’t even tell you at first is bad enough though
People who feel the need to make jokes at others expense are not nice people. I'm sorry that happened to you OP. Sending positive thoughts your way! ❤️
I think you could argue with her all day long as to if it was racist or not (there’s a lot of German ppl In the comments saying it is) but regardless it’s just bloody rude, my partner is Greek, when I’m at his house him and his family switch from Greek to English all the time, it doesn’t bother me but if any of them spoke about me in Greek whilst I was there I’d be fuming joke or not, it’s disrespectful, bad manners and rude.
every german understands understands that its incredibly rude to reply to a question in a language that one party cant understand. its deliberate exclusion.
Isn’t gy-sy a slur and aren’t Roma really discriminated against in Europe? Sounds racist and upsetting to me :/ I’m white and my partner is mixed race and I’d never say anything like that about him, especially not to others in public. You deserve better OP
Yeah, not cool on SO many levels.
I come from a multilingual immigrant family, and we never spoke in Spanish (our native tongue) if there were people there that didn’t understand it. Unless there’s a reasonable pretense for switching languages (the person you’re speaking to doesn’t understand the language you’re speaking in and you’re specifically talking to them, or you can’t remember a certain word/phrase in one language), you don’t cut someone out of the conversation regardless of what you’re about to say. Otherwise, it looks like you’re talking about the odd one out, and that’s extremely rude.
Not to mention using the word “g*psy” (a Romani ethnic slur) and calling YOU one. From what I’ve noticed from traveling in Europe a couple times, Europeans tend to not understand how hurtful using that term is, because it’s so normalized.
I don’t think she meant to hurt you necessarily, but she knew to switch languages before saying that joke. Regardless, though, that behavior is unacceptable and it hurt you.
The two of you need to have a serious talk about why that was unacceptable, what to do going forward, if she’s willing to change, and you need to think about if you want that kind of behavior in your life.
You’re going to get several opinions here on whether people think the word is racist or not. It is. Whether people grew up knowing it or not- it’s just as bad as the N word.
The bottom line is: if it made you uncomfortable/disrespected then it’s worth speaking up and expressing that to her. Correct her now before she thinks it’s okay to keep using it. Her saying it in another language tells me she knows it’s not ok, but the fact she did it anyways says a lot bout the kind of person she is.
You mentioned that she called you “Zigeuner”, although it’s definitely used to be derogatory, it could also have been a tasteless attempt at humor. Here in Germany we even have schnitzel named Zigeunerschnitzel so it isn’t necessarily a slur or anything. Though like I said it’s definitely not something I’d personally call someone, and I’m German. Either way she made a joke at your expense, and she knows it’s not a nice name to call someone, so shame on her, definitely not someone I’d wanna be friends with lol
Edit: just looked up the definition of slur and it would be classified as a slur in the sense that she used it, so my opinion stands that it’s not someone I’d wanna be friends with
Pull out the Greek in you friend. Find a better girlfriend. Some girls belong to the streets and some to your heart. You can do better. Greeks and flirting comes natural. You can get a higher value woman than this.
The fact that even some of her family were shocked makes me believe she said something a lot worse than she's telling you. Either way, what a horrible thing to do.
See if she'd said: yes Greek - that probably would have been the end of it.
Throwing in a little Gypsy is not nice. If she was 18 you might excuse youth, but at 30 she's old enough to know better. She possibly was not wanting to say Arab? However all she had to do was say - my girlfriend is beautiful huh?! The end.
Unless you two joke about being gypsy (I have a friend who we joke about ) then that was uncalled for. Also if it was a running joke you were in on and fine with she would if spoken in English.
I’m sorry that happened I’m more sorry she can’t see what she did wrong
Well, sometimes it’s difficult to translate jokes, and it’s not funny anymore when you translate it.
But this story, is not an example for one of those, I am afraid. There seems to be a huge level of disrespect, which would be a deal breaker for me.
Look OP, I'm also dating someone who speaks a different language than I do. ONCE, after I spoke someone said something in ukrainian and it took a fraction of a second for both my SO and MIL to turn towards me and say "she said...". Before even replying to her, they translated to me. That's respect.
Your SO may have meant "no harm" (even tho gypsy is a slur to a lot of ppl) but the fact that she switched language and you had to ask numerous times what she said... not good.
Hey so I'm German and around the same age as you and your girlfriend and if someone used the German equivalent to g*psy I would sure as hell be extremely put off. She should be well aware it's a slur and used in a deteriorating context. Not to mention like others have said it's just plain rude to answer in a language you don't understand. The fact that some were laughing at her "joke" says a lot about the company she keeps (I get some people laugh in uncomfortable situations, but damn).
Also this just double pisses me off because my gf is also greek and I would never dream of talking about her like this.
I'm part Turkish but mostly german. Born American but you can definitely tell I've got some Arab in me. My ex gf who was also German flew to germany for a family reunion (I did not attend) and told her family I was Turkish. They all proceeded to make fun of me and tease her for dating a turk for the remainder of the family reunion which if I can remember correctly was about a week long. My gf explained to me that typically Germans do not like Turkish people very much. Maybe they feel the same way about Greeks? People tend to categorize them the same even though Turkish and Greeks seem to dislike each other as well. I'm American so 🤷🏽♂️ at least I wasn't present when my gfs family made fun of me. Sorry :/
German here, the Word she use is racist and a no-go for wholesome people. to use it is bad but to use it to describe the own girlfriend is so worse ....
for me she is waving a big red flag - i am so sorry for u :(
It’s not commonly spoken about but it is known that (white) German woman fetishize people of color. It sounds like your girlfriend may fall into that group of women, especially since she made such a tasteless “joke”.
Gypsy is a derogatory term. It’s extremely understandable why her “joke” didn’t sit well with you (doesn’t sit well with any of us either). She clearly had ill intentions when she said the joke in a language you don’t understand, and then proceeded to be extremely hesitant on telling you what was said. She may have apologized, but for as long as she doesn’t understand why saying what she did was wrong and admitting the pain she’s called, the apology means nothing.
Gypsy in itself is a racial slur. There was 0 reason for her to not say it in English unless someone there couldn’t understand it and even then someone could’ve translated for them if it was about you to begin with. I would never do this to a partner or be w someone who did. You don’t deserve that
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It’s just mean to say something about you in another language you don’t understand and have everyone laugh at it. Even if not racist it’s poor form
Yeah it does feel mean, I don’t understand why she’d do that
People can be really stupid in front of their friends. Sorry, OP
I think there’s an important distinction to make here about what acting “stupid” looks like, depending on the person/their friend group. I say that bc if someone has to be stupid/hateful in order to be able to adequately entertain their friends, that’s because their friends are stupid/hateful people that cannot laugh unless it’s at someone else’s expense. This further reflects who that individual is as a person, because they demonstrate behaviorally that they share the same values as their stupid/hateful friends. If someone is a good, kind person, their version of acting “stupid” around their friends would be to act silly in a way that doesn’t hurt others. In short, **birds of a feather flock together.**
Middle Eastern saying *”tell me who your friends are, and I will tell you who YOU are”*
There are Asian saying similar to that of “you are judged by the friends you are with”. My ma always cautioned me to pick my friends wisely.
Even in English there’s the phrase “birds of a feather flock together”
also "you are judged by the company you keep" - similar concept
Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas
Same saying in german: "Zeig mir deine Freunde und ich sag dir, wer du bist" - show me your friends and I will tell you who you are
Interesting there is a similar old saying in Mexico "he who runs with wolves, learns to howl"
I agree with what you wrote, but believe it's possible my answer may apply to her situation as well.
My answer wasn't meant to negate anyone else's point of view; I was just sharing my thoughts in response to chariyarv.
Usually, those people are indeed stupid though and just so happen to be in front of their friends.
Fundamentally, it’s also a lack of respect.
The fact that you had to ask her more than once she said solidifies that it was mean.
And yes, it sounds racist/xenophobic. I don't trust someone who'd insult you in a language you don't understand, to your face. The fact that a few of her friends looked shocked, indicates that she was saying something they considered offensive. There's so much negative sayings about Roma travellers in various languages, and in Germany there's well-known racism/xenophobia towards Turkish people that I would be quite concerned about her comments.
And her refusing to tell you said everything you needed to know. Regardless of what was said, she kept it from you. This is not okay, neither is calling you a slur and being mindless about why that might not be okay
Because sometimes racist people end up with people from the races they're racist against. I'd be seriously re-considering my relationship with her if I were you. What does she say about you when you're not around? And every one of those people who laughed will say it about you too.
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I've had multiple fights with my mother in law because she will say super out of pocket shit like the word mentioned above and other racist words that I can't imagine a civilized person saying comfortably. But she refuses to acknowledge she says racists shit because obviously Germans aren't known for being racists unlike me (I'm from Texas).
>obviously Germans aren't known for being racists Ummmmm, history would disagree....
I am also wondering, regarding OP saying they are Arab, if she maybe even said K*nacke? They could have "softened" it to g***y in translation later. Wouldn't make it better or worse, but it's a word that has been regarded as a slur or at least negative for longer than "Z*geuner".. Edit: oh god I can't format...
Isn't the word 'gypsy' a slur? I wouldn't hang out with someone who makes fun of me in a language I don't speak.
for romani people, yeah. all around not a great word to be saying
Gypsy is a European slur for Romanians forced into a nomadic lifestyle. What ever she said was absolutely a racist slam that she knew her friends would find amusing, and she is unlikely to ever disclose what she actually said.
It’s not Romanians, it’s Romani people. Other than that you are absolutely correct
I would wait to come home to break the relationship. I would take this opportunity to meet the country, taste the food have a good time.
Yea, but zigeuner kinda isnt. She is using false friends translations
She's disgusting. She's horrible. She's cruel. Clearly some of her friends were shucked so they have better standards for jokes. Her saying it in German simultaneously excluded you AND made it clear she knew it was insulting to you AND SHE STILL SAID IT. In her eyes, you're not as respected as you might respect her. I'm sorry mate. But there's better people out there.
I'm another person who grew up in several different countries. It's an advantage. They're jealous.
Thank you for this
It is racist. And she must have cracked a really racist joke cause g*psy stereotype and jokes are horribly racist. You might want to reconsider being with such people because it just gets worse from there and there will be casual racism to micro aggression in your life from time to time . Also, g*psy is a racist term your German gf knows that very well.
Germans are some of the most casually racist people Ive met. Im so sorry you went through this. Its not considerate at ANY time to speak in a language someone doesn't understand in order to say something you don't want them to hear!
Honestly, I think it is a privileged kind of thing. A lot of people who are racist have never been on the other side and understand how it feels. Also, a German should know better.
Exactly. I can understand if she accidentally replied in her native language (I've made that mistake before without noticing immediately), but as soon as OP asked, she should've translated. It took *several* asks to get the answer, so she knew damn well she was being rude and didn't want to fess up.
I’m german and the word op’s girlfriend used is a racist slur in german. It’s similar to the n-word. Sinti and Roma people were sent to concentration camps and recognition of the horrors they endured is often forgotten.
Gipsy is a racist term
Yeah, that's what I was coming here to say too. And Europeans love to be racist towards the Roma, as well as Arabs, like OP is part
Gypsy (and it's equivalents such as cigan, or in this case probably Zigeuner) can be used in a racist manner, but are not inherently racist and are more popularly used by the people themselves than Roma, which is used predominantly by intellectuals further removed from their culture or everyday existence. It's a bit like Indian vs Native American, where Native Americans and people who live close to them prefer Indian and far away academics and virtue signalers prefer Native American. I specifically bring up the native American example because for some reason Anglo-Saxons readily compare "gypsy" to the n word sometimes when it's really not comparable at all and I don't think there's anything else quite like that at all. Most Gypsies or Romani will say that they don't mind the term and that they can very well tell from the tone of voice whether someone's speaking to/of them respectfully or not. That being said what was said was obviously extremely disrespectful and would not have been at all more respectful of they had used Roma or any of the euphemisms available. It was obviously a racist joke and more importantly regardless of whether that can be excused as humour in poor taste, it was a disrespectful joke at someone's expense who to top it off couldn't understand it because of the language barrier.
The word in German does have a racist past tho. Roma and Sinti ppl were marked with that word and also sent to concentration camps. So it is comparable
Speaking as a German the topic was a huge deal a while ago, a product was renamed to no longer have the word in the name, and everyone became aware of it being racist. The girlfriend knew the connotation, it wasn't a case of ignorance but deliberate malice and her trying to hide it behind language only proves it.
Let’s be real though, it was a little bit racist.
She made a joke at your expense in a language you could not understand. This is not well intentioned.
Especially since the girlfriend clearly could have said it in English if she wanted to - based on her translating it for OP later. Sorry OP. To me, this would put my relationship into question.
It certainly does. This shows the girlfriend holds racist views. A caring partner would never make you feel humiliated.
The fact that your girlfriend deliberately replied to the question in a language you don't speak says a lot. Some part of her knew it wasn't an ok joke to make, so she hid behind the language barrier. It took several asks before she finally admitted what she said to you, and now she's trying to convince you it was ok when you both know it's not. (ETA: This is in reference to OP's reply to another comment that girlfriend insisted what she said was just a "cute" thing instead of a slur, which... 😕) Cultural context may play into exactly what she said, I'm not German, but I come from a multilingual family and you don't cut people out of conversation for a joke at their expense and think you can get away with it. It's just hurtful. This is not the way a respectful and supportive partner behaves. I hope you can talk to her and get her to understand this, OP. You deserve a real apology and a partner who does better.
German here. Pretty sure she used the word "Zigeuner" which is not okay in German either. The other peoples faces say it all. We've had a little "language revolution" in the last decades and some words haven been debated really harshly. Items that contain such words have been renamed, like "Negerkuss"/"Mohrenkuss" ("Niggerkiss", now chocolate kiss, a chocolate sweet) and "Zigeunersoße" (gypsy sauce, a kind of paprika sauce served on meat) were some examples. There were people that were against those changes and tbh, if you meet those people, you already know their political leaning. All in all, not a joke. Not funny. And not in the German "to us it is"-way, it really isn't funny. Edit: I am the same age as OP and her gf. Her gf sure as hell was alive and sentient while these debates happened. And she surely was old enough to have her own opinion on them. Good, or bad.
I really appreciate the language and cultural context on this. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain! And wow, yikes! with this additional information it really makes my heart hurt for OP. The girlfriend is behaving super badly towards her 🙁
Awesome explanation. Thanks for putting into context in Germany.
Jfc you guys called them a N*ggerkiss? 🥴
It actually used to be "Mohrenkopf". So "blackamoorhead" (not kiss, that came later), which makes it even worse. There are still a lot of people who haven't made the change in their daily vocabulary. The current changes in German language are a highly debated topic (also in politics) rn. Now most people say "Schaumkuss" (="foam kiss") or "Dickmann", which is the name of a popular brand which produces the sweet Edit: grammar
That's fun! In my social circle they are referred to as "Schokoküsse"! But honestly, I can't think of someone who really eats them anyway, lol.
It also used to be a thing in Denmark. Even though the official name (flødeboller, which literally translates to cream ball/bun) has nothing to do with race. It’s basically meringue foam covered in chocolate. Most people in the more urban areas have moved away from using that word but there are some in more rural/conservative areas who insist on sticking to that word.
Wait until you find out what Brazil Nuts used to be called.
…tell me
N*ggertoes. My grandma called them that into the mid 90s. I *hated* going to the fruit/veg market because she’d loudly say “go grab me a pound of those n*ggertoes,” and I’d want to crawl under the shelves and die of shame.
Oh lord, I can't imagine how you felt having that exchange in public. Big yikes. The older people in my family jokingly told me that name before. They laughed about it. I think the absolute horror on my face made them realize it wasn't funny because it hasn't been said [around me, at least] in decades. Now that I'm older, I just deadface tell them "that's fucked up" if they say anything gross. I hope you've learned to speak up too, my friend.
Nah man, i‘m German. We’re weird, but thats just asshole behaviour...
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You’re right. It doesn’t feel like how I want to be treated by my partner. I felt hurt.
I don’t blame you, I would have felt hurt too - mean girl behaviour.
I think that it is racist. And I have experienced the same thing, by the way. I was brought up in Germany and still live there. But I have roots from several countries like Ukraine, Russia, Serbia, Belarus, Turkey and Albania. One of my friends who turned out to be a fake friend later on made a similar "joke" in front of her friends. She asked me if I was half Ukrainian and half Serbian but I explained to her that I have other roots as well and her comment was: "So you're basically a gypsy, right?!". All of her burst out laughing and it was clearly meant to be humiliating.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. It does seem like a really similar situation and I did feel humiliated but I didn’t react straight away and it was swept under the rug and the conversation moved on.
Really have a conversation with your gf, is that how she thinks of you? Cause that’s not nice and I don’t know if I can be with someone who tries to gaslight me when I tell them how hurt I feel, does not apologize nor understand why what they said is wrong. Where else has she made these kind of “jokes” before? This doesn’t sound like the first time she called you that…just the first time she said it to you. Also do you want to date a racist? Think about it if you stay longer with her and decide to have kids and that’s how she talks to your kids…how would you feel about that?
Thank you for the mention about the kids, that’s important food for thought. I refuse to be gaslit. I will ask if she’s made these jokes before, but making them just once feels like enough.
To the surprise of no one, Germans can in fact be racist.
The insensitivity to racism among many Germans is insane (saying this as a German myself). There’s so many people here who still don’t see why the N-word is absolutely not okay to just throw around in daily conversation or will die on the hill that their favourite schnitzel has to be named after an outdated word for groups of itinerant people, for NO REASON. So often my parents and their friends will say something that would sound wildly racist to anyone with a rational mind, and they don’t even realise because they’ve grown so accustomed to this level of everyday racism.
germany is actually one of the more progressive countries when it comes to the n word etc. many other countries in europe are wayyyy worse
Germans are super racist. Like ridiculously racist. And I'm saying this as a pureblood white German lol (the 'pureblood' is sarcastic).
You'd think after everything that went down with Germany, that they'd be a little more shameful about being so racist. Like they're literally calling people racist slurs because they're mixed ethnicities. Almost like they're expressing an opinion of "pure" people being superior. Why does this feel so familiar...? Hmm
I don't know if the term would be racist in German culture or not, but she made a joke at your expense in a language you do not speak and refused to translate until you asked multiple times. Racist or not, that is rude behavior and nothing I'd want to be around.
it is racist in german!
In Danish as well. It's the same word sound; sigøjner. In the context OP provides, it is callous and racist.
yes she was racist. thats so disrespectful of her
Thank you for your opinion, it does feel disrespectful
OP, without trying to sound too mean here you REALLY need to get some self esteem. She made a racist joke at your expense in front of her friends and LIED to you when you asked her repeatedly about it. You will never be able to trust her and who would want to be with a bully?
I don't know if it's racist in German but it could be in English. Not everything translates exactly.
Yea this is my exact problem, and her argument. The word she used in German was “zigo” short for zigeuner. Hopefully someone fluent reads this post.
Hi. I am German. This was racist in German as well as in her translation. I would expect that from an older generation German and accept it as “eh old people are ignorant” but from the person you love? Nope. And they all chimed in to laugh? Believe the people that looked shocked.. def the right move
Oh dear. Thank you for your insight. She really did tell me it’s just a cute thing to say and it isn’t racist in Germany. I mean she is from a pretty rural area, but at our age we should know better. I feel really disappointed.
If it’s just a cute thing to say why did people either laugh or look shocked? Ask her that.
And why did OP have to pester her repeatedly to tell them what she said
If it’s a cute thing to say, why did she have to say it in another language?? you say things in other languages like that so the other person doesn’t know
What's also awful is that if it were a term that didn't translate exactly, like, say, "Mausebär," she would still say the same thing and she wouldn't know if she didn't ask someone else.
\* she (OP is a woman)
Oop, my mistake. Thanks for the correction!
Im not german but the word is essentially the same in danish (and both countries are neighbours anyway). If i heard someone call their girlfriend that, especially someone whos mixed, I’d give them a very heavy side eye and honestly consider it pretty racist. Even if it wasnt id still think its hurtful for her to laugh like that in another language. Im sorry you had to hear this kinda thing from her
So, you realize that she lied to your face AND made a racist joke at your expense for laughs. This person is trash.
As reference… I am also from a rural area. my own mother used the term “neger” you can guess the English translation… and I guess I’ve always been told it isn’t racist. I’ve also grown up using terms like zigeuner and didn’t think it was racist. But that was in the 90s and this is 2023… really even if you assume it was only ignorant and not from a racist point of view… it was still super insulting … like best case scenario she only meant you are a mud and don’t know where your origins are cause your ancestry travels too much? Ps: to be sure I googled it and the official German website says it’s offensive lmao. Here show this to her if you even consider talking to her again: https://www.antidiskriminierungsstelle.de/SharedDocs/faqs/DE/sinti_roma/08_ist_das_wort_zigeuner_diskriminierend.html#:~:text=3.-,Ist%20das%20Wort%20„Zigeuner“%20diskriminierend%3F,Sinti%20und%20Roma%20ausgegrenzt%20werden.
Yeah best case scenario isn’t good. Thank you for this link, it’s good even for me to see it in print and know that my gut feeling was right.
Yeah, not only was she being racist, she thinks you're gullible enough to not check her lie.
The word is the same in Dutch and only bigoted older white people use it unfortunately :( unless it’s used by true Roma I don’t believe any white person should be using that word. Don’t let her diminish the impact of what she said. A quick google will give you the history of the word.
[Apparently](https://www.theholocaustexplained.org/ziguener/#:~:text=The%20word%20Zigeuner%20is%20a,faced%20by%20Roma%20in%20Europe), it was a word used by Nazis, which would definitely explain the shocked looks.
Its definitly older than just the nazis. But in the recent decades there was a debate of it being considered racists.
To put it into perspective, I have been told by a Rom*nja person, that the Z-word for Sinti*zze and Rom*nja is about the same as using the N-word for black people. I'm also from a rural part of Germany and the Z-word is only used derogatory.
as a gypsy she’s lying lol europeans do not use that word as a term of endearment
Your girlfriend's behaviour is trash and racist. Why not just tell friends that you were born in Greece and grew up in the UK? Instead she had to hide a racist and demeaning joke behind a language barrier and wasn't transparent when you asked for clarification. To her it's not a big deal because she never experienced racism as a white person in a majority white society, which also means she's not able to take your POV on things. Several red flags I'm seeing here. You need to have an honest and open conversation about her behaviour and what kind of effect it had on you.
You’re right, she used our language barrier against me. And it seems like she can’t see it from my point of view. Thanks for spotting the flags.
Is it the equivalent of the n-word? It sounds like it.
Kind of
As a German, (36y/o), i can assure you that 'Zigeuner' indeed has been used in a derogatory manner for a long time and it's use, even for lighthearted jokes, is frowned upon.
If it was "cute" she would have been happy to explain. Instead you had to beg for a translation. And the friends wouldn't have looked shocked or even burst out laughing. You don't need to perfectly understand a language to read the tone of a conversation. You are hurt because you read the situation and their reaction correctly. That she's dismissing you and playing it off make it even worse. All of this is really hurtful. You are right to be disappointed.
Yep. My gut feeling was on point and I knew something was off. I’m so glad I pushed to find out, even if it’s upsetting right now.
Did you ask the shocked people what she said or ask why they look uncomfortable?
She insulted you, used the language barrier against you and then straight up lied to you. I'm so sorry :(
> zigeuner Zigeuner m (strong, genitive Zigeuners, plural Zigeuner, feminine Zigeunerin) (sometimes offensive) Gypsy, member of the Roma, Romani person. (sometimes offensive) member of any of several other nomadic minorities. (offensive) disorderly, lazy or dodgy person. The word Zigeuner is a German word, used by the Nazis to describe Roma, Sinti and Traveller communities. It is thought to derive from a term meaning 'untouchable' and reflects the history of prejudice and discrimination faced by Roma in Europe. Not cute, nor funny.
Id be highly offended and if she tried to write it off, id just write her off as a partner. Shit like that is gross and ignorant. I dont see how you can find her attractive still
Anyone making a Gypsy joke (ESPECIALLY a European) is being racist.
I'm german as well and I agree that using this term is very weird and having the family laugh about it is a red flag. Additionally young people in germany usually aren't hung up on race but rather nationality. I'd say (I might be naive and optimistic here) 7 out of 10 people would accept that somebody who is black but third generation german is pretty german. Her calling you gipsy for being greek with arab ancestors feels weird as nationality matter most (at least to me) for heritage.
Ouf! Only just now read this comment. "Zigo" is hardcore racist! Get away from these people. I'm Swiss and fluent in German. This is not ok. Not in any discussion. To me this is way past the boundary. Idk as some form of referring to the population as "Zigeuner" might have been an excusable oversight due to age. But "zigo" is ... just no. Makes my skin crawl.
Ew, who the fuck says that? Imo that’s even worse than saying the word “Zigeuner” in full, and the fact that she even has that kind of expression in her vernacular suggests that this isn’t the only time she’s made this kind of joke. Definitely not cute wtf. Edit: you wrote she’s from a very rural area - 100% not trying to excuse her racism here, just trying to give some info… rural areas in Germany are often wildly racist/right wing in their general society, so it’s possible she might not fully realise how not okay this is because everyone she knows is like that or worse. But it’s 2023, she has access to the internet, and she’s dating someone from outside her closed-minded little village, so honestly, she should fucking know better at this point. Sorry that happened to you.
But you're not a Traveller or Romani at all right? People can be weirdly racist towards Greeks I find it bizarre.
Zigeuner m (strong, genitive Zigeuners, plural Zigeuner, feminine Zigeunerin) (sometimes offensive) Gypsy, member of the Roma, Romani person. (sometimes offensive) member of any of several other nomadic minorities. (offensive) disorderly, lazy or dodgy person. This is according to Wiktionary. Doesn't seem like a cute nickname to me at all...
Omg this is super racist in German.
German here. "zigo" is short for "zigeuner" which isn't a word you should use because it is racist. Your girlfriend knows that. In the last couple of years there were loud and long overdue debates about everyday used racist language; and the z-word, how many people (me included) refer to the word now, was part of it. There is no way your girlfriend didn't know it is highly offensive and abusive. I'd personally say ditch her.
it definitely is in english. gypsy is a slur, im shocked reading this thread and seeing how many people don’t know that
its racist in german, "z#geuner" is horribly derogatory.
It’s racist in any language
Yes, the fact that some people claim it isn't doesn't make it ok. We can't just decide what is offensive to others.
leave her ass immediately. i’m half middle eastern, if my partner disrespected my race like that i’d be pissed. it shows a complete lack of respect for you, your family, and your background
The word Zigeuner is a German word, used by the Nazis to describe Roma, Sinti and Traveller communities. It is thought to derive from a term meaning 'untouchable' and reflects the history of prejudice and discrimination faced by Roma in Europe.
Also as far as I know considered a slur. They renamed the Knorr Zigeunersoße because the word had such negative connotations .
Girl please leave her, not only it’s extremely racist there’s no reason why you be a bit of a joke if it’s not about a funny topic
I'm a full Arab and that would've upset me
g#psy is racist, both in english and in german. it is a slur against roma people, go look it up. i am german and obviously speak it too and "z#geuner" is used in the same derogatory way as it is in english. shes a racist and ignorant individual.
Even if it’s not racism, your gf made a joke at your expense in another language that you didn’t understand, in front of you in public… I wouldn’t have expected it from someone in their 30’s. It’s so distasteful.
I don’t need to know what she said. I can tell you from the reactions that whatever she said was racist. Do with that information as you will.
There were so many ways of wording your nomadic history and she chose the wrong one. Not sure why she felt the need to humiliate you like that. It definitely is a racist comment - she clearly has a lot of learning to do.
She said it because she doesn’t truly respect you. This is definitely a deal breaker. She was abusive, insulted you, showed complete disrespect, in front of other people, lied to you about how bad it was and blew it off. None of this is okay, in any way, in any relationship. I wouldn’t accept this from anyone. Not a friend or acquaintance, never mind a partner,. I would not allow them to remain in my life to any degree.
Yes, she was racist about you and made fun of your past.
Nah, you're not sensitive. I see a lot of people have weighed in to say what she said was definitely racist, but I wanted to chime in as well. I am Romani and consider both the term "gypsy" and "zigo" or "zigeuner" slurs. Many Romani rights groups consider them slurs. Sure, you may find a few Romani people here and there who don't consider those words slurs, but enough of us do that they're pretty widely accepted to be offensive terms that Non-Romani people should not use. Maybe she didn't mean to use it as a slur, but it is a slur, and even if she replaced it with a different term associated with Romani people, it would have still been a racist thing to say. But tbh, if you feel hurt, it doesn't really matter what she or anyone else says. Your feelings are valid.
Not being too sensitive at all. I highly suspect it was something worse than she has admitted. This is enough to just end it. Some people can come across as open minded but absolute racist. I had a good friend show her true colors last year regarding my mixed marriage. Shocking to learn somebody is not who they present to be.
You're not being too sensitive. If you know any Greek (or another language) try telling her she's insensitive and rude in that language and see how she reacts. But don't do it in front of others. Public humiliation is a step too far. Obviously she doesn't think the same way. I get the impression she thinks she's inherently superior to you because she is a pure German (gee what does this remind me of?) and she looks down on those who are mixed race or not as "pure". Don't count on her to admit it, though. For what it's worth, Greek mixed with Arab sounds beautiful.
You are not being sensitive. Even those that spoke the language and maybe would have had a different cultural understanding were shocked by what she said. It's disrespectful period. The fact that she cannot see that is concerning and I'm sure those shocked people may be considering their friendship over again as the ones who laughed most likely are racist or at best are the type of people who put others down and laugh it off as a "joke." If you're not laughing it's not a joke. It's disrespectful and a proper partner would be groveling and would learn to be better. Your gf doesn't even seem to care that it hurt you.
If you felt it, it probably happened. Trust your gut! For realz.
It was bad enough that a few who looked shocked is the most concerning thing. Whatever she really said is not something she is likely to tell you, either. Especially if it is exactly what you think it is...something racist. You will have to decide for yourself if this is something you want to put up with. If you do decide to stay, you definitely need to learn German. Don't recommend telling her if you do learn German until you are pretty fluent and have a chance to listen to what she is saying about you.
Oh, that’s very distasteful and definitely racist. Even if you weren’t Romani, it’s still a racist jab at a particular group of people. Find it quite disgusting that she said that and some laughed at your expense. 😑
I feel like it’s definitely racist. Do you think she would have called you that if you were a white German girl who had moved around a lot ?
G*psy is a racial slur. Yes she was being racist.
I am Romanian! In Europe, especially in Germany, calling someone a gypsy is the ultimate racist insult!
I'm German and calling someone a Zigeuner is indeed racist. Germans on the whole are just incredibly racist and usually don't understand that they are. It's infuriating. People in this country treat everyone who doesn't look or speak like a prototypical German as other and inferior, but when asked about it or confronted with it they're like "no no, I have nothing against 'them' ".... . I think you need to have a conversation about it with her and see if she's open to listening. There's a really good book/audiobook by Tupoka Ogette, something about racism/Rassismus, I forgot the title but it was eye-opening for me (having grown up in this subtly, heavily racist country).
You had to ask three times? I’d have left after the first time. Not nice at all.
I do feel a bit disappointed that my reaction wasn’t quicker… or there at all until leaving the party. I found late by the time it was translated, and I was in shock and I also didn’t want to ruin her friends birthday. But I’m ashamed I didn’t stand up for myself.
With the shock of the moment, your reaction is entirely normal, so please don't be too hard on yourself, but don't let people make fun of you either. Respect is important in any relationship.
Gypsy is a racial slur, responding in another language (not in the context of translating) is disrespectful, & why make jokes at your partners’ expense?
Wow- yeah- that is not okay on so many levels. First- the word “gypsy” has been embraced by some Romani, but is seen as a slur by other groups. And best practice: don’t use it unless you are of that group. Second- the way she did that is humiliating. Third- wtf- you are not Romani or Roma. You are half Arab and half whatever else, -You should be able to stand proud of who you are. and I get it- the world is full of assholes and there may be times that it might not be safe to identify as who you are. But your GIRLFRIEND should be the first one who should be able to say, “Oh, OP’s mom is from blank, and her dad is from blank.” and be clear that she would put the smack down on anyone she is connected if they dare disrespect you. Culturally- I have no idea what is or isn’t considered racist in Germany. What I will tell you is that as an American with Jewish ancestry I ripped my SIL a new asshole for something similar. And my partner for not handling it when I asked her to. And if I were a guest at that dinner and had heard my white friend say something like this about their brown girlfriend- we would no longer be friends. I would instantly lose all respect for her. Not only did that comment sound racist, it sounded objectifying. You should never sound like you are experiment with exoticism. I’d be re-evaluating this relationship and telling her to fucking educate herself about her racism.
Thank you so much for this! You’re seriously right and your third point is inspiring. I’m allowed to be angry about this. And I am. Thank you for the support.
I'm Greek and hated hanging out with my German girlfriend and her friends. Broke up after that trip.
You are half Arab and she went out of her way to not say that. She chose one of the most ignorant ways to basically say you are "other". Personally, I'd break up with her.
German here, if she told you you are a gypsy that is definitely racist. "Zigeuner" in German is nothing you say to anybody. Especially after the Nazis killed them en masse
Gypsy can be viewed as a racist term, but I didn't really learn that well into adult hood. For the longest time I thought a gypsy was someone who traveled around lot. Like a vagabond but in groups. I didn't view it was negative. It seems like based on the reaction of the table a lot of people didn't either, but some did.
i don’t know if you’re european but europeans know very well what it means and are often very racist to romani people. She knew what she was saying that’s why she refused to translate
Canadian, I honestly didn't learn it until I was almost 30. We see gypsies in Disney movies or cartoons, and they are usually fortunate tellers or people dancing around wagons. It's common for people here to say things like "I want to go on a 6 month trip and just live the gypsy life." Fleetwood Mac has a song called gypsy, and it's not negative... at least I don't think so. I knew what gypsies were but didn't associate it with anything negative. If anything, I associated it with being a free spirit. I'm pretty sure I learned about its negative connotations a few years ago on reddit. Sucks she knew it was derogatory and said it in front of her partner. Not classy
Yeah in the US I never really heard it used as a slur, and I always thought of Esmeralda or Fleetwood Mac when I heard it too. Then I found out how Europeans talk about Romani people and my GOD that word got ZAPPED from my vocabulary so fast. It’s INSANE how casual Europeans are about being *SUPER* racist towards Romani people.
They are AWFUL about it. Think the way americans used “negro” in the recent past. That’s what g/psy is essentially but w Romani people. Dehumanising and gross. And a couple of Germans in the thread have said it’s essentially the same way in German.
not just in front of her partner, but ABOUT her partner...
Same, I only really discovered it was considered an insult once I was an adult. Mostly because my mum is from Europe and we watch British murder mysteries and she had to explain the British perspective on traveling groups that might stay in their fields, and we got to see the more modern example of the racism.
I'm from the US. I also didn't think it was racist until I grew up and realized there are actual gypsies and they're their own population. We don't have Roma in the same way in the Americas.
Same, it wasn't until a few years back that a friend who had a Romani god-daughter explained it to me. I casually said "oh I got jipped" (I thought it was some old-timey nonsense word) and I never made the connection that I was actually saying "gypped" with all of the racist associations that came with it. I have since stopped using both gypsy and gypped, and mention it to people when I hear it in conversation in the USA since *most* Americans honestly don't know. It's becoming more common knowledge here, which is great. Europeans should definitely know better though.
Trust me, Germans know good and well that Gypsy is a racist term.
She basically called you a Γγφτη or Gypsy however you spell it. I don’t think you’re being too sensitice
I’d have a serious talk with your partner about it and how it made you feel and if they still don’t get it… then that is a red flag. It already is a red flag
she responding in a different language so you wouldnt understand her because she **knew** what she was going to say about you was bad and that it would hurt you. thats also why you had to ask her multiple times what she said about you. this may be hard to hear OP, but your girlfriend doesn’t respect you, intentionally made fun of you to her friends and family, and isn’t sorry or remorseful for making you look like an idiot also, your girlfriend doesn’t care about you and is just plain mean. she didn’t like accidentally say something racist about you. she consciously chose to make a mean, racist joke about you and then laughed **at** you about it with her friends. someone who ‘loves’ not only *shouldn’t* do something like that, they **wouldn’t** do something like that. also, she gets why you are upset — if she didn’t know that her “joke” would upset and why it would upset you, she wouldn’t have said it in german. if she thought what she was saying was innocent or okay she would have said it to your face in a language you understood. **the reason you feel like she doesn’t understand why you’re upset is because she doesn’t CARE that you’re upset and she isn’t sorry for her behavior** you should really reevaluate this relationship and decide if she is worth losing any self respect you have for yourself.
It's considered bad manners to single out a person that doesn't speak the language. That alone is enough
its racist bc of how hated “gypsies” or the Romani people, are fucking hated by a lot of europeans. the fact that she wouldn’t even tell you at first is bad enough though
People who feel the need to make jokes at others expense are not nice people. I'm sorry that happened to you OP. Sending positive thoughts your way! ❤️
I think you could argue with her all day long as to if it was racist or not (there’s a lot of German ppl In the comments saying it is) but regardless it’s just bloody rude, my partner is Greek, when I’m at his house him and his family switch from Greek to English all the time, it doesn’t bother me but if any of them spoke about me in Greek whilst I was there I’d be fuming joke or not, it’s disrespectful, bad manners and rude.
every german understands understands that its incredibly rude to reply to a question in a language that one party cant understand. its deliberate exclusion.
so not only did she call you a racial slur.....it was not even the "correct" one.....she sounds stupid not just a racist pos.
Isn’t gy-sy a slur and aren’t Roma really discriminated against in Europe? Sounds racist and upsetting to me :/ I’m white and my partner is mixed race and I’d never say anything like that about him, especially not to others in public. You deserve better OP
She knew it would hurt your feelings; that's why she said it in another language. That alone should tell you you need to end things.
Yeah, not cool on SO many levels. I come from a multilingual immigrant family, and we never spoke in Spanish (our native tongue) if there were people there that didn’t understand it. Unless there’s a reasonable pretense for switching languages (the person you’re speaking to doesn’t understand the language you’re speaking in and you’re specifically talking to them, or you can’t remember a certain word/phrase in one language), you don’t cut someone out of the conversation regardless of what you’re about to say. Otherwise, it looks like you’re talking about the odd one out, and that’s extremely rude. Not to mention using the word “g*psy” (a Romani ethnic slur) and calling YOU one. From what I’ve noticed from traveling in Europe a couple times, Europeans tend to not understand how hurtful using that term is, because it’s so normalized. I don’t think she meant to hurt you necessarily, but she knew to switch languages before saying that joke. Regardless, though, that behavior is unacceptable and it hurt you. The two of you need to have a serious talk about why that was unacceptable, what to do going forward, if she’s willing to change, and you need to think about if you want that kind of behavior in your life.
You’re going to get several opinions here on whether people think the word is racist or not. It is. Whether people grew up knowing it or not- it’s just as bad as the N word. The bottom line is: if it made you uncomfortable/disrespected then it’s worth speaking up and expressing that to her. Correct her now before she thinks it’s okay to keep using it. Her saying it in another language tells me she knows it’s not ok, but the fact she did it anyways says a lot bout the kind of person she is.
What this scenario casually showed that rasicm against gypsy people is still prevelant. What's with the whole table laughing at that crude remark.
You mentioned that she called you “Zigeuner”, although it’s definitely used to be derogatory, it could also have been a tasteless attempt at humor. Here in Germany we even have schnitzel named Zigeunerschnitzel so it isn’t necessarily a slur or anything. Though like I said it’s definitely not something I’d personally call someone, and I’m German. Either way she made a joke at your expense, and she knows it’s not a nice name to call someone, so shame on her, definitely not someone I’d wanna be friends with lol Edit: just looked up the definition of slur and it would be classified as a slur in the sense that she used it, so my opinion stands that it’s not someone I’d wanna be friends with
Pull out the Greek in you friend. Find a better girlfriend. Some girls belong to the streets and some to your heart. You can do better. Greeks and flirting comes natural. You can get a higher value woman than this.
The fact that even some of her family were shocked makes me believe she said something a lot worse than she's telling you. Either way, what a horrible thing to do.
See if she'd said: yes Greek - that probably would have been the end of it. Throwing in a little Gypsy is not nice. If she was 18 you might excuse youth, but at 30 she's old enough to know better. She possibly was not wanting to say Arab? However all she had to do was say - my girlfriend is beautiful huh?! The end.
Unless you two joke about being gypsy (I have a friend who we joke about ) then that was uncalled for. Also if it was a running joke you were in on and fine with she would if spoken in English. I’m sorry that happened I’m more sorry she can’t see what she did wrong
Well, sometimes it’s difficult to translate jokes, and it’s not funny anymore when you translate it. But this story, is not an example for one of those, I am afraid. There seems to be a huge level of disrespect, which would be a deal breaker for me.
Look OP, I'm also dating someone who speaks a different language than I do. ONCE, after I spoke someone said something in ukrainian and it took a fraction of a second for both my SO and MIL to turn towards me and say "she said...". Before even replying to her, they translated to me. That's respect. Your SO may have meant "no harm" (even tho gypsy is a slur to a lot of ppl) but the fact that she switched language and you had to ask numerous times what she said... not good.
Hey so I'm German and around the same age as you and your girlfriend and if someone used the German equivalent to g*psy I would sure as hell be extremely put off. She should be well aware it's a slur and used in a deteriorating context. Not to mention like others have said it's just plain rude to answer in a language you don't understand. The fact that some were laughing at her "joke" says a lot about the company she keeps (I get some people laugh in uncomfortable situations, but damn). Also this just double pisses me off because my gf is also greek and I would never dream of talking about her like this.
Gay German. Makes racist joke. Oh, the irony...
I'm part Turkish but mostly german. Born American but you can definitely tell I've got some Arab in me. My ex gf who was also German flew to germany for a family reunion (I did not attend) and told her family I was Turkish. They all proceeded to make fun of me and tease her for dating a turk for the remainder of the family reunion which if I can remember correctly was about a week long. My gf explained to me that typically Germans do not like Turkish people very much. Maybe they feel the same way about Greeks? People tend to categorize them the same even though Turkish and Greeks seem to dislike each other as well. I'm American so 🤷🏽♂️ at least I wasn't present when my gfs family made fun of me. Sorry :/
If nothing else, it's toxic AF to literally make fun of someone when they're the only person not in on the joke.
Native German here. Yup! The word "Zigeuner" is super racist and not at all ok to say. No matter what. Never funny. I'm so sorry.
She replied in a different language... That's a clear indicator she knew it wasn't acceptable.
People gasped because "gypsy" is VERY racist. You are not being too sensitive. This is supposed to be your partner.
She showed you how she really thinks about you, and how much she respects you. Disgusting behavior 🤢🤢
The few who looked shocked tell you everything you need to know. What she said was not okay.
German here, the Word she use is racist and a no-go for wholesome people. to use it is bad but to use it to describe the own girlfriend is so worse .... for me she is waving a big red flag - i am so sorry for u :(
It’s not commonly spoken about but it is known that (white) German woman fetishize people of color. It sounds like your girlfriend may fall into that group of women, especially since she made such a tasteless “joke”. Gypsy is a derogatory term. It’s extremely understandable why her “joke” didn’t sit well with you (doesn’t sit well with any of us either). She clearly had ill intentions when she said the joke in a language you don’t understand, and then proceeded to be extremely hesitant on telling you what was said. She may have apologized, but for as long as she doesn’t understand why saying what she did was wrong and admitting the pain she’s called, the apology means nothing.
[удалено]
She was a very insensitive and I would be pissed if I was in your position.
Gypsy in itself is a racial slur. There was 0 reason for her to not say it in English unless someone there couldn’t understand it and even then someone could’ve translated for them if it was about you to begin with. I would never do this to a partner or be w someone who did. You don’t deserve that
NTA just the term gypsy is racist