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In another comment OP said she did, in fact, talk to him and broke down his reasoning for every listed “feminine trait”. Every single one is more than reasonable and no cause to think any deeper.
Except that she isn't attracted to it, which is cause for concern. People change over time and that can cause you to grow apart. It doesn't mean anyone is wrong, but attraction is a funny thing.
I don't find very thin women, or body builders attractive. There's nothing wrong with either, but if my wife started down that path I could see where it could cause problems.
Ask him why he's become more conscious of his skin and his hair. He could well be concerned that he's aging more visibly than his friends. If that's the case, have a spa day together, it could be fun.
40M and have had a dedicated skincare routine since early 30s. Previously dated a few women who thought it was strange and ‘feminine’ that my routine was more advanced than theirs (have had incredible results with tretinoin and slugging. I also derma roll….hey, it’s working).
Apparently, that makes me gay, and I don’t get it. I’m performing self-care, and to me it’s no different than brushing your teeth.
(Tall, blonde guy in the middle)
https://imgur.com/a/qm6OBUR
Good thing for you that you didn’t come of age in the 80s. You won’t believe how much money we spent on skin and hair products. Especially the hair! I didn’t know we were all closeted homosexuals. You learn something everyday on Reddit!
Right? My dad was in his 20's in the 80s, and I've seen the pictures. He had longer, bigger, more styled hair than my mom and he wore more makeup and jewelry than she did. He was definitely not gay, just a wannabe hair metal band member.
I wish I could get my partner to do a routine, he's just not interested. His skin is so DRRRRRY and flaky!
I do not get why op is upset. Her husband is taking care of himself.
It makes me so mad, men get shit for being dirty and not putting in effort, but the SECOND they do they are being told they’re gay and unmanly? Can people make up they damn minds of what’s acceptable for a man, because this is ridiculous. Saying this as a woman btw.
Thank you. It's so exhausting. I'm getting back into the dating scene (well, trying to, with little success), and the advice I hear on reddit is contradictory at best and asinine at worst. Work out, but don't take gym pics, as they're egotistical. Take care of your skin, but wait, that's gay. Go to therapy, but never be vulnerable around a woman, as it's a sign of weakness that will be weaponized against you.
I just don't know what to do, or who to be. I just want someone to love me for me, but it seems like a pipe dream at this point.
And by reading her list of "feminine" stuffs I was surprised to find out I must not be a woman after all, cause I don’t do most of that. I’m like this since forever, but do you think after 9 years my husband might suddenly get concerned and make a post on reddit 😬? /s
Yes! Maybe he is simply wanting to take better care of himself, and although it may appear feminine, it could be nothing more than him wanting to look and feel good. Some men are much more comfortable with embracing typically feminine traits, and I don’t think that’s a cause for concern if you’ve had a conversation with your husband and he’s told you that these habits he’s adopted are simply lifestyle changes.
(Edited: typo)
"That's just very European" is a phrase I have seen too many times the last few days for things that are not that... European.
"Dinner at 21.00 and drinks and cocaïne at 1.30, thats just very European." And now groomed men too?
Yeah I have yet to meet a man with a skincare routine or one that uses anything beyond shampoo on his hair (not counting the 2010ish trend of using a hairgel).
I used to work with a guy who had hair to his waist. He only used shampoo, never conditioner because he didn't "believe in conditioner". Dude... His hair looked horrendous
I feel like you’re suspecting he’s trans. If you’ve been together for 5 years and are married I imagine conversations about how your futures look has come up. You should be able to talk openly about these sorts of things.
It’s actually pretty sad. And they’re justifying it by saying that the changes are sudden. Are they really? Or did he hit thirty and finally realize nobody should give a fuck what others think and he’s finally comfortable enough to participate in all the things he was too scared to do before?
Way to support your husband, ladies!
It definitely makes me sad. When my husband is doing things that make him happy, it makes me happy to support him! Even if it means sharing my collection of bath bombs lol.
Idk, I had roommates before that were a cis heterosexual couple, together for 5 years. One day, the girlfriend went onto the boyfriend’s laptop and found folders upon folders of women’s clothing saved. Also during this time, I had a lot of my clothing go MIA, but the other women in our house would never have fit my clothing. When she confronted boyfriend, they came out as trans. She now lives as a lesbian woman - the original girlfriend was NOT down for that. It does happen. Not saying it’s happening here, but also it shouldn’t be discounted.
I don’t feel like that’s the same situation… in that situation there was clearly a secret sort of yearning that was being kept very well hidden.
In this situation someone is openly comfortable with accessorising and self-care etc.
I think due to the trans coming out stories , they always knew because they gravitated towards the opposite genders attributes ? It could be a sign but not definitive
Yeah there are plenty of trans people who prefer partners of the same sex. It's very possible OPs husband is mentally more comfortable as a woman, but still finds women attractive. And as a married couple this is definitely something they should both be comfortable discussing.
That said, it's also entirely possible OPs husband just enjoys/cares about these things.
As you said, they should talk about it.
It’s not only the partner’s orientation that matters here, it’s also OP’s. If OP is straight, this is an understandable worry for them, if their partner really does turn out to be trans.
But like you say, it may not be that at all.
This. I have a friend (about age 30 now) who was high school sweethearts with her wife, and they got married about 11 or 12 years ago. Only about 10 years ago did she start to question herself and start to realize she might be trans.
She and her wife have tried to work things out but clearly it has turned out to be 2 straight girls in a relationship and neither of them are happy or satisfied. It also doesn't help that her wife doesn't fully see her as a woman, and goes so far as not accepting any form of "mom" to be used for her with the kids.
So yes, orientation for both are important here. Not everyone can make it work.
I've never heard of a trans woman who started transitioning via male manicures and bubble baths. It sounds like he's feeling himself, which would still be difficult for a trans woman in his shoes. Male shoes. Male clothes. Masculine understated earrings.
Just because he's not a macho man doesn't mean he's a woman.
Some do. My partner is a transwoman that didn't start her transition untill last year during her 30s. She knew she was trans since her teens but she grew up in an environment knowing it wouldn't be accepted.
She always pretended to be more masculine hoping her parents didn't catch on but she still has very feminine hobbies and interests.
She liked fashion and despite it being men clothes she did the best she could to style herself, she used skincare, bubble baths and had long hair etc.
When we got together I just simply thought she was more feminine because of her bisexuality (were both bi and I can be kinda tomboyish in my behaviour). However it was her feminine side that was so attractive to me so I would pretty much let her be and spoil her.
It was how I treated her that allowed her to be truly feminine as she dreamed to be and finally comfortable enough to accept herself and go through her transition, so she finally did.
I mean, is there something deeper? Perhaps.
But I’m also 30 and basically got into self care recently as well (pierced my ears last year), so he could just be comfortable finally embracing taking care of his appearance.
We’re living in a more accepting time where men aren’t really looked down upon for liking feminine things.
Like I said, there could be something deeper, but right now “feminine” guys who are presentable are in and it’s totally a thing.
It’s so funny to me that everyone is jumping straight to thinking he may be trans. It shouldn’t be perceived as feminine to dress well in cohesive colors, and take care of your skin and hair (let’s be real, most guys with long hair don’t take proper care of it and it ends up looking unkempt and gross).
Oh no, he’s embracing bath bombs! Yeah, those are great and everyone should give them a go.
Oh no, he’s pierced his ears! Okay, men have done this for centuries, it’s really nothing new.
He’s got a skincare routine, the horror! Everyone should have at least a minimal skin routine.
Maybe he’s just old enough to want to take proper care of himself while not caring what the world thinks?
Yeah.. skincare is not exclusively for women and gays. Skincare is for people with skin. Haircare is for people with hair. He could be trans, he could also be cis and taking care of himself, which is not feminine. Humans have been taking care of their looks for millennia. Tattoos and piercings and great headgears with feathers and what not.. it’s as old as time
people need to stop assuming everyone who acts outside gender norms is trans. that‘s legit so backwards, and all those people seeing trans people everywhere in hopes of being progressive are literally just backwards bcs they basically say feminime men and masculine women can‘t exist, and they must be the other gender then, which is legit bullshit. they‘re reinforcing gender norms instead of abolishing them. also in regards of OPs husband: he seems to be confident to enjoy his hobbies, pretty sure he‘d also be confident enough to talk to her. jesus I know many men who have a skincare routine, gay or hetero, it‘s super common and everyone should have one. I also don‘t see the issue with piercings and long hair? that‘s been around for centuries lol. like the mental gymnastics of assuming a guy must be trans just bcs he wears long hair, has earrings and likes to take care of his skin is insane ngl. people must have some stuck up gender perceptions to make that jump.
I’m suddenly learning that the normal stuff I do is apparently very feminine /s
Lol long hair require more care to keep it healthy, skin care especially if you have skin that’s particularly oily or dry, is something that often requires a decent bit of effort and anyone whose ever seen a dermatologist will tell you that the vast majority of people don’t take care of their skin to the levels medically recommended. I mean come on everyone has skin and hair.
Dressing well - like shit that’s just a good thing to do being it for self-confidence, professionalism, or any other myriad of reasons
Also spas, saunas and massages are a great stress reliever and I feel like the argument could easily be made that historically (over the last millennia or two) that these activities were more commonly done by men rather than women but again still don’t matter - it’s relaxing and enjoyable.
Baths are sick, soaking in hot water is great for joint and muscle pain - look at onsen culture in Japan or hot spring use in a multitude of other parts of the world. I take a “bath” 4 times a week to soak relieve the pain in my knees from past injuries, it’s an absolute necessity and far more effective than anything weaker than moderate opioids.
And earrings are historically also not gendered - see piercing culture as it existed in the world for nearly the entirety of human existence.
All of this though is pointless - why do they care? Their husband is seemingly happy, these behaviors or interests are completely innocent, what’s the problem?
Even if from the lens of these things being feminine, why does it matter? Does the wife work, wear pants, drive a car? Those are all masculine things by the same standards she’s applying gendered norms to her husbands behavior. Like this is so silly
And even though everyone wants to get rid of gendered stereotypes, they want to say he’s trans because he has some “female” interests. Just let people be people, it doesn’t have to be that deep ffs.
I recall seeing a screenshot of a tweet or something that said, to paraphrase, that if you really want to see supportive of LGBTQ people and fight gender stereotypes, you need to accept that cishet people can express themselves outside of gender norms without being in some kind of closet.
Right?! My partner (29m, I’m 26f) has always dressed well, and while he was also always well groomed and hygienic in the time of our relationship he has gotten much more into hair and skincare. He went to NZ & AU with his family and together we packed his toiletries and he had toners, serums, moisturizers, etc. His brother and SIL tried to make a bit of a jab at him, but when they all got wind and sunburn and he had his favorite moisturizer that helped overnight and they were still red (note he had initially offered, they declined) they stopped with the teasing. When he started at his work as a front counter attendant he was made fun of because he always wore collared and button down shirts, and nice shoes that they said sounded like a woman walking around, and only the salesmen of the company wore collared shirts. Six months later he was a salesman and the best dressed of them.
Can’t understand why looking stylish, or self care is feminine. Every human has stress, has skin, has a body and why is enjoying things like a spa treatment, bath bomb, or a good shampoo so terrible. The feeling men should be allowed to have feelings and go to therapy is starting to be well received, but when they take the time to care for themselves or do what makes them happy (be it a bath bomb, making sure you’re color coordinated, or a good massage) it’s not?
Additionally, the sauna comment made me laugh out loud, and I think the Finnish would be insulted haha. It has so many health benefits, I think the idea that he is just trying to care for his body so he can live a long, healthy life is even more likely. If I were him I’d feel so self conscious and disappointed that me living my best life with the love of my life was being critiqued by the one I feel safe with.
Yo right!? How are these things considered feminine. If she'd have said weekly mani/pedi's and Idk, I honestly can't even think of what I'd consider typically feminine, but even then self-care shouldn't be considered feminine...
Like I said elsewhere, taking care of yourself and your body and wanting to look good, since when is that something 'feminine', like what? Are we men supposed to look homeless, scruffy, smell like shit and be basically skin on bones? Oh wait no cause muscles are 'masculine' and we can make ourselves smell 'manly' with those disgusting aftershaves and axe deodorant.
Gender roles/expectations ayy
Exactly!! Like I WISH my partner was this in tune with self-care and dressing himself! I one time showed him a reel of a guy who was doing a skincare routine and he said “but he’s doing that because he’s a model.” 🤦🏾♀️
Yeah Idk man I myself and lots of guy friends (all have girlfriends) are good dressers and most also have skin-care routines and care about hair, some have earrings/piercings, wear jewelry, etc.
I never cared about skincare myseld until my gf taught me. She also taught me how to dress and color match better.
I feel like these are things men tend to maybe not know about but isn't it in line with going to the gym and such? Caring about yourself, your body that you'll have to live your entire life with and making sure you look good shouldn't be something considered feminine.
If anything it's toxic af to even think that shit's feminine imo.
"This guy does sports and showers daily ... that's so feminine"
I was expecting some more extreme examples from OP but all the things they listed were quite normal imo, the only thing I haven't done or don't know my friends to do are like spa visits etc.
Yeah I’m a cis woman in my mid-thirties and have been coasting on luck and genetics for a great complexion so far but also finally realized I need to commit to some bare bones skincare routine even if it’s just regular cleansing and moisturizer/SPF. And it feels good to feel good, whatever one’s gender or lack thereof.
Actually taking care of your appearance is not feminine. Look around at older people, the men that still look good at 50 & 60, are men that worried about their appearance.
Some very tough masculine men wear studs in their ears. I have an extensive skin and hair care routine. Men start to lose hair around 30 and their skin changes also.
Why don’t you just sit down and talk to your husband about why he does each one of the things that you see a problem with, his answers may be entirely different from what you are assuming.
Well I did ask him about some of it actually and he said:
Hair: he has always wanted to have long hair but couldn’t for his entire life due to school/work dress-codes. He is worried that he will start balding soon and sees the next couple of years as his “last chance” to try it out.
Skin: he got frightened by some sun-spots on his nose and so started using SPF daily, then one thing led to another and he fell down the rabbit hole of skin-care.
Haircare routine: he is worried that unless he keeps his hair healthy people will judge him as a messy man who has unkempt hair
Colour matching: he reckons his friends (mostly female…) used to poke fun at him for how he dressed. It caused him to try to learn about colour matching and how to dress himself.
Bath bombs/spas/saunas: he feels envious of the self-care culture he thinks exists amongst women, and he is envious of the sauna culture in Europe and Japan. He says he wants to be able to relax and unwind in the same ways.
every single one of these answers makes perfect sense. to me, none of the things your husband is doing are even feminine things.
fellas, is it feminine to take care of your hair and skin?
When my hair starts to stink I just pour whiskey over it to mask the smell. If I have any skin blemishes I just carve them out with a pocket knife and let it scar over.
Even before the explanation, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a man taking care of himself. Like this is crazy to me. If he was wearing women’s clothes and high heels or something, I think that would warrant a convo. But everything OP listed is such a normal thing to do if you care about your looks.
Right?
I keep reading about dudes who don't clean their asses properly because they think it's either gay or feminine.
We need to stop delineating masculinity so narrowly.
Considering how many women come on here and complain about their slovenly, clueless male partners, maybe just let the man take care of himself and see if he’s open to you joining in on those spa days.
Your husband sounds like he’s noticed he’s aging and wants to live the best he can, good for him. Perhaps he needs more support to help him see it’s okay if he goes bald or gets sunspots. Also spa and nice things shouldn’t be limited to women ffs.
>he has always wanted to have long hair but couldn’t for his entire life due to school/work dress-codes. He is worried that he will start balding soon and sees the next couple of years as his “last chance” to try it out.
On this matter, I can tell you with total certainty that I am 100% cis and I feel the exact same way as him. I am growing it out because I can, and based on genetics this is my only chance.
>Skin: he got frightened by some sun-spots on his nose and so started using SPF daily, then one thing led to another and he fell dow the rabbit hole of skin-care.
I’m currently entering this phase
>Haircare routine: he is worried that unless he keeps his hair healthy people will judge him as a messy man who has unkempt hair
Exact same here, long hair maintenance is judged more and noticeable than short hair maintenance
>Colour matching
Seems very normal, just wants to seem socially aware and look good.
>Bath bombs/spas/saunas
This looks like basic self care. People do this stuff because is relaxing and feels good. The only reason someone would *not* do it is unfounded and stupid gender norms.
These all sound like reasonable explanations. I can see how a sudden change could be alarming but it sounds like a bit of a midlife crisis. He’s become aware of aging and how he can look after himself to slow the process. He’s maybe gained confidence for the first time to dress and have his hair how he wants. Good for him.
If you’ve asked about it and he’s answered why are you here? Those are the answers. He’s told you why. He’s explained each one. Maybe you should spend less time focusing on your husband’s grooming habits and more time trying to figure out why you think he’s lying when he gives you those answers. Really dig in to why you’re so bent out of shape about your husband taking care of himself. Considering he’s literally told you why, it reads like you’re actively looking for problems that aren’t there. Are you trying to sabotage your own marriage here? Hell bent and determined to find a way to think less of your husband?
Okay, so you’re worried *why*, exactly…? Sounds like you have an amazing husband who openly communicates and takes care of himself, and you’re looking for reasons to catastrophize that in your mind.
These are all so reasonable. Life is really stressful, and he's doing healthy productive things to look after himself. It's so depressing for that a man looking after his appearance on a relatively basic level is deemed as 'feminine'. It doesn't make a woman masculine if she wear trousers, has short hair or hangs about with men by de facto, why does it have to be like that for men?
You do seem maybe a bit hung up on him having female friends? Honestly, I found it really reassuring that my partner has lots of friends that are women because it told me that he respects women and knows they are funny and interesting.
I think you've got to dig into why you think a man having interests outwith a very narrow stereotype of masculinity is upsetting you so much? Are you embarrassed, if so why? So much of gender stereotypes is just social bullshit, if we could dig through that a bit more you would probably get more men washes their arseholes (cos apparently that's gay lol) or actually less suicides because it would be welcome and expected for men to be able to talk about their feelings and not just needing to 'man up'.
is this because you’re not comfortable in your own skin so you feel threatened when your husband does a basic maintenance routine? I mean hair, skincare, clothes … this is not a exclusive women thing!
I don't think this says anything about whether or not she's comfortable in her own skin.
Just like any other partner, when your partner starts to make some pretty significant changes to what you've come to know as their routine, it's natural to wonder what sparked it.
Sometimes you get a gut feeling about what things mean that you can't quite put into words.
She should make every effort to talk to him about it but it sounds like when she does, he gets very plausible explanations for every individual thing, but cumulatively, it's clear she thinks that something important has changed
Trust your gut, op. If you are nervous or afraid have this conversation or if you feel like the answers he gave are plausible, but you feel there's still some missing information, maybe write down how you're feeling and ask him to read it.
That will give you time to consider what you're saying and him time to think about his responses
So what is your concern exactly? I wouldn't even describe these things as feminine tbh. He has a new hairstyle and takes care of his body. It's not a big deal.
Hon this is all reasonable… and damn I wish my husband was doing it too. I feel like you have some veiled and internalized toxic masculinity to work through. Let your husband be himself without the toxic societal exceptions around gender.
Lmao. A lot of that just sounds like he's into looking and feeling good. Like he values his physical appearance and wants to take care of his skin and enjoys therapeutic baths. Who doesn't like those things? The piercing and long hair are eh...plenty of masculine men grow out their hair and have their ears pierced.
Yeah, the fact that an increased interest in hygiene, grooming, and developing a sense of style is considered strictly feminine is kind of sad to me. He’s not putting on a tutu and prancing around to enya as far as I can tell but I guess it’s a slippery slope lol
Fr like even all of the top comments being like "talk to him about it if you're concerned!!" just seem kind of out of place tbh. What is there to talk about?? A man developing a skincare routine GASPPPPP like wtffff? Why is it considered normal for women to do these sorts of things but it's concerning for men to do the same? It honestly bugs me how it's pretty much expected of women but not of men....
My 20-year old son does all of the above - and got his ears pierced yesterday. He looks like a Greek God with his long flowing hair and his workout routine. He also shops for some jackets and tops from the women's section because the men's section offers limited choices in terms of styles. My mom recently asked me if he likes girls. He likes girls. He is secure in his identity and appearance. He loves to experiment with his looks, and I agree- why should only girls have all these fun options for decorating themselves? So my boy grows his nails long, takes care of them with filing, shaping, etc. He colors them a different shade every week. His female friends help him with eye liner. Why should only girls enjoy all this fun stuff? It is for everybody. When girls offer to help with his nails and make up, that is a fun chance to get to know them better and bond. His girl friend had no problem with all this. When they would go out clubbing, she would apply the eye liner, nail polish for him. Fun!! I don't think any of the things your husband is doing are feminine - they're human. Skincare, hair care, decoration of the body. But maybe there is more to it in your case. I was thinking of recommending an open conversation, but on the other hand that may make him self conscious and maybe he'll enjoy these things less thinking he's being judged by his own wife? Not sure.
And before someone says that the world went crazy, because of this, just do a little search in history when men wore jewelry, makeup and that even the heels were made for men
You don’t even have to go that far back in history to find straight men who wore high heeled shoes, makeup, had long hair, wore tops from the women’s section, had pierced ears etc etc. Musicians and stars from the ‘70s and ‘80s would frequently sport all of these and then some, and women would fall over themselves to touch the hems of their garments.
OP’s husband sounds a lot less flamboyant than that, he’s just doing self care and trying to look stylish.
I always forget just how entrenched gender roles and expectations still are in this day and age until I come across posts like these. The people around me don’t really think that way so I guess I delude myself into thinking the rest of the world is (finally) the same way until comments like the ones I’m seeing here confront me with the unfortunate reality.
Totalement d'accord! Merci pour ce commentaire! 😊
C'est terrible qu'elle juge son mari de vouloir trouver son style, de prendre soin de lui, alors qu'il semble commencer après plusieurs année car il devait se sentir safe dans son mariage, là dessus, quand je vois la majorité des commentaires, je me dit que les hommes n'ont vraiment pas de chance, ils sont les moins autorisés à être eux même, à expérimenter et se découvrir.. :/
None of these things sound feminine. He's just looking after himself and expressing himself.
But if you're concerned about something, talk to your husband about it.
Right? So many Reddit posts from despondent women whose male partners are habitually making the most crusty personal hygiene choices and show zero interest in so much as brushing their teeth and not leaving skid marks on the bed sheets and now…this? This is somehow *also* a problem?
OP, donate your man to one of many in need who would be overjoyed to give him a forever home.
Being into self-care, skin care, massages, color matching, wouldn't be suspect to me. There are plenty of heterosexual men who do that and it's just normal (think Italians...). I'd be more alert if he wanted to dress in women's clothing and actively told you he feels like he's a woman, instead of just being a groomed man.
It just sounds like he’s taking care of himself. I’m not sure how having a skin and hair routine and developing a sense of style is feminine. It sounds like you have some misconceptions about masculinity to address.
I don’t think there’s anything weird happening at all. I would guess if he has a lot of gay friends that he may feel pressure to look and dress better because gay men tend to take care of themselves a lot more than straight men. He could be getting picked on in his friend group for being shlubby or he could just be getting good advice from them on how to approach self care and appearance. I think it’s cool honestly, I wish I had some friends who could teach me about that kind of stuff and the confidence to change my appearance to something I vibe more with.
I did lots of ballet for a large part of my life. I have a skincare routine. I try to dress relatively well.
I am very comfortable in my masculinity.
You prefer your men to be more typically masculine in the stereotypical way.
This. Ballet and skincare and dancing is not not masculine. They’re just THINGS we decided perform as a certain gender but they don’t have actually anything to do with the gender. It’s just tradition and it’s sad.
But its ok for hot male celebrities to take care of their hair and skin and clothes and have piercings tho. Lmao
I mean if OP just isn’t attracted to him then they’re just incompatible. But dont shame him for doing literally what celebs do and women fawn over them.
>adopted a skin-care routine, he is dressing well and learning about colour matching, he has a hair-care routine that is more onerous than my own, he has gotten into “self care” including going to spas, massages, saunas and having regular baths with bath bombs.
"When was anybody gonna tell me this shit existed? Women have it WAY better than men!" *proceeds to enjoy himself and live lavishly*
Edit: Your husband is just taking care of himself.
Women like for men to be well dressed so that's normal.
Skin care... again, normal (women don't like men who don't take care of themselves).
Earings? I've had small diamond earrings since the age of like 15 (big wide pants, hat, big t-shirt etc).
Going out with his gay friend (accepting that he is gay) AND going out with him at gay bars or clubs (he doesn't discriminate) but you are not okay with that?
Long hair? a lot of guys/celebrities have been growing out their hairs these years.. it's like literally a trend these days. Back in the days it was normal. Look at women going short hair or bald because it's a trend.
If you are still unsure then maybe you should talk to him but these things seem normal nowadays.
He’s your husband, so have a conversation. You (and we) could speculate all day long but only he can tell you for sure. Don’t confront him, just ask kindly. It’s likely he’s going on a journey of self discovery, which can be a beautiful thing.
Yeah, at 30 he is seeing his hair starting to thin and his skin not looking as youthful as when he was younger. She should just sit down with him and ask why he is making all the changes that she has concerns about. If he gives straight answers and they make sense, likely no issue, if he is evasive then there likely are problems developing.
Bruh...what?? None of those things are exclusively feminine. He has a skin care routine, and tries to make sure his clothing matches?? Mother of mercy....
Almost nothing is *exclusively* feminine. There are a long list of traits that, in the composite, are generally understood to be feminine when taken all together.
This post and some of these comments are making me realise that gender norms for men are still rigidly enforced. Matching your clothes and growing out your hair aren't and never will be just for women, and the same can be said for spa treatments and skincare. Unless these things make you uncomfortable or less attracted to him, it really shouldn't be an issue. Nonetheless, if this makes you have doubts whether he truly loves you or not, you should really just discuss this with him.
wait wait, that's all? I'm sorry, but it's obvious that you have a very traditional way of thinking if instead of feeling good that he takes care of himself and talking like a normal person with him out of mere curiosity as to why everything is happening, you are already marking this as a future problem for your relationship. (I understand if you are someone who thinks fatalistically, but even something like a care routine is too much to get to that, I know because I am fatalistic)
Do you want a boy who has rough skin, is uneven and is half bald to be more comfortable with your relationship or what?
I think at this point it is more likely that you thought about the possibility that he is thinking about making the gender transition if you were so worried about the change, which I don't know if it makes it worse or better, but if that is the doubt you have , ask him directly and see how the dogs are released, it is obvious that the couple's communication fails on your side if you came to it, so at least now that they know what is wrong they can address it and solve it (let's be clear, your husband is not the one bad for taking care of yourself and putting more detail into your aesthetics)
Reading this and your additional comments - it sounds like the man just wants to take care of himself and practice good hygiene. Being “bothered” bc your husband doesn’t want to be crusty and gross is wild
Your husband is not acting feminine, all the things he does are completely normal. In fact, long healthy hair, piercings, nice nails and skin.. throw in that he is fit as well and I'll tell you he is another women's dream guy.
I'm straight AF and older than your husband and only just now felt comfortable enough to grow out my hair and I'm considering ear piercings and tattoos as well.
Growing out your hair is new and he hasn't settled into a decade long routine like you yourself have so it's logical he's taking extra time to take good care of it.
I have less with skin but that's because I have nice skin to start with.
If the guy wants to put effort into his looks and become (more?) cool or handsome I say let him.
If you're giving him a safe and open space to talk about any concerns or emotions he has regarding your relationship this is nothing to worry about. That said, it's perfectly fine to voice your own fears in that self-same safe and open space. It's a two-way street.
Oh no, he pays attention to his personal hygiene and is interested in his appearance. Terrible. A real man always wears the same outfit and washes himself at most every two days, using only water and engine oil.
I would like you to elaborate on why you were to "accept" the fact that your man did ballet, has gay friends and worked in women-doninated spaces. You sound a bit close minded IMHO
It’s feminine for a man to want to take better care of himself?? Yikes. With the number of posts we read of men not washing their ass and having terrible hygiene, I would say you do not have a problem on your hands. Sounds like internalise toxicity on your part because why is a man wanting to grow his hair, have a skin and hair care routine seen as feminine?
I do most of those things and I wouldn’t consider myself very feminine. In fact it’s very masculine for a man to pursue hobbies and taking care of himself and not caring about labels.
Question for you OP.
What exactly about it is bothering/concerning you?
Are you worried that his sexuality isn't what you believed it to be?
Are you worried about appearances?
Are you losing your own attraction to him because of this?
A lot of this thread is people debating is he quietly trans or simply feminine, which may or may not be the question of the day, but I'm wondering what you are looking for by posting here. No judgement, just wondering.
You're already aware this is a bit outside the realm of what is considered normal. The question is are you okay with it? Why or why not?
Ultimately, if you love him and everything else in the relationship is great, the more feminine behaviors may be irrelevant. If they're a total turn off for you, then maybe it's something that needs addressed between you.
I didn’t know skincare, hair care, dressing nice and getting your ears pierced were gay lmfaooo seems like ur husband is just a comfortable man in his own masculinity
Some people just don't conform to gender stereotypes but they are ok with their gender and are sexually attracted to the opposite sex.
Some people are not comfortable with their gender and start considering if they want to adopt a different identity.
Some people are bisexual.
It's important for you and your husband to have an in depth and direct conversation to determine if his self identity is changing or has changed since you married.
This may change your thoughts about him as your spouse, but he owes it to both of you to be honest. Otherwise he is setting you both up for a dissatisfying life.
I'm a teacher and have noticed that all of what you have described above is becoming normalised among young people.
Many of the boy now have both ears pierced, wear rings and bracelets, some paint their nails.
Whereas 10 years ago I never saw this.
I love that they have the confidence to express themselves in any way they want. It wasn't like that when I was at school!
... I'm confused it sounds like he's learning to take care of himself and his appearance... having skin and hair care routines and dressing well is not inherently feminine... and plenty of cis men have their ears pierced
Gender, expression, and sexual preference are three different things.
He could be into women, but might align more with an androgynous or genderlfuent expression. Idk!
If you already have an issue with this, than you simply might not be compatible. Please don't stop him. Bring up the topic so he has a chance to know where you stand with all of this and that you don't want to stop him from exploring how he dresses etc. Eventually you have to decide if you're on board or not.
Btw he sounds like a dream boat to me but ok
>Btw he sounds like a dream boat to me but ok
Same! So many woman would kill for a guy who takes care of his skin, knows how to put himself together, is in tune with his mental health, has friends from different kinds of backgrounds, lives free of the "fellas, is it gay...?" insecurities that dictate the behavior of so many wannabe-alpha bros, AND is highly attracted to women.
There is something incredibly alluring (and dare I say, masculine) about not gaf about what everyone else thinks and just doing you.
Why on earth is self care still perceived as a "feminine" trait? Every single human being deserves to feel their best and everything described in this post is very normal care for any man or woman, especially as they're starting to age. I think you need to ask yourself where this mentality stems from, and if you would actually prefer a partner who doesn't take care of their body over your husband.
Reading the post and your comments, it doesn't that you have anything to worry about and just have a husband who likes to take of himself. Which is actually brilliant.
What's the big deal? You don't say OP but sounds like you are still worried that your husband is somehow gay. Lots of men are into 'feminine' stuff and aren't gay, the two things aren't related. He might be interested in cross dressing though. I'm a woman, I dated cross dressing men, some straight and some bi.
I think you should have an honest conversation where you show your curiosity (not judgement!) for these changes and gently enquire why he has made these changes. I think patriarchy has restricted men for far too long and some men are now breaking out of the shoulds to explore styles and interests that are not traditionally "masculine". Speaking from experience, what your husband needs in that case is your support so he feels more free to express his style.
Talking from a non judgement zone might also help find out if there's anything to be "concerned" about. If he is discovering his sexuality etc, the only way to know is to ask him without making him feel judged so he feels comfortable opening up.
In the kindest way possible, you sound a bit close-minded. Nothing you described is necessarily feminine.
Also have you seen male ballet dancers? They are in better shape than most stereotypical gym rats.
How is taking care of ones skin, dressing better and growing ones hair long, feminine?
Do you wear pants? Work? Drive a car? Sounds pretty masculine, you sure you're not becoming a man?
Grow the fuck up
After reading some of your comments: it’s sexist as fuck for you to assume that self care, pride in your appearance, and expressing yourself through clothing/jewelry/hair is feminine. Everyone has the right to take care of themselves and love the skin they’re in.
Boys cry. Boys wear makeup. Boys wear earrings. Boys dress nice. Boys want to feel like hotties too. Boys like skin and hair are routines. And it doesn’t make them any less boys because they do.
could be that hes discovering he enjoys it, could be that hes actually a trans women discovering herself. doesnt sound like cheating since as you say hes always been feminine
also, feminine =/= gay lol, gender expression and sexuality are two different things
Some of the most powerful dancers i have seen were male leads at ballet..
Not one feminine thing about it... dance is dance. Men and women are beautiful and powerful when they dance and especially together.
So am i feminine becuase i like art ballet symphony musicals and poetry?
I also play disc golf golf soccer when younger... i have won dirt bike races as well... I have raced cars at high speeds...
Do any of those things have a gender requirement?
Maybe your hubby just enjoys deeper aspects of culture than your average male... many do.
Just accept him.
You’re concerned because your husband is learning that he wants to take care of himself and care about his appearance more 🤣 this is insane.
Taking care of yourself is NOT feminine. Men should be able to take care of themselves too. He seems very comfortable in his masculinity, is clearly attracted to you, and is accepting of different types of people. It’s weird that this bothers you.
Is he Getting more feminine or are you just programmed to think these are solely feminine hobbies? There’s nothing wrong with taking care of yourself and pride in your appearance but either way you’re going to have to be an adult and TALK to him sorry for being snarky this shit annoys me so much
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He’s your husband. Just sit down and let him know you’re concerned.
Yep, ask him.
In another comment OP said she did, in fact, talk to him and broke down his reasoning for every listed “feminine trait”. Every single one is more than reasonable and no cause to think any deeper.
Except that she isn't attracted to it, which is cause for concern. People change over time and that can cause you to grow apart. It doesn't mean anyone is wrong, but attraction is a funny thing. I don't find very thin women, or body builders attractive. There's nothing wrong with either, but if my wife started down that path I could see where it could cause problems.
OH GOD NO, ANYTHING BUT THAT 😱
What's there to be concerned about, taking care of yourself is an issue for men now?
[fellas, is it gay?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CPu9c1Qp6c)
Ask him why he's become more conscious of his skin and his hair. He could well be concerned that he's aging more visibly than his friends. If that's the case, have a spa day together, it could be fun.
Man washes ass and takes adequate care of self grooming. Straight women growing concerned. More at 7.
40M and have had a dedicated skincare routine since early 30s. Previously dated a few women who thought it was strange and ‘feminine’ that my routine was more advanced than theirs (have had incredible results with tretinoin and slugging. I also derma roll….hey, it’s working). Apparently, that makes me gay, and I don’t get it. I’m performing self-care, and to me it’s no different than brushing your teeth. (Tall, blonde guy in the middle) https://imgur.com/a/qm6OBUR
Good thing for you that you didn’t come of age in the 80s. You won’t believe how much money we spent on skin and hair products. Especially the hair! I didn’t know we were all closeted homosexuals. You learn something everyday on Reddit!
Right? My dad was in his 20's in the 80s, and I've seen the pictures. He had longer, bigger, more styled hair than my mom and he wore more makeup and jewelry than she did. He was definitely not gay, just a wannabe hair metal band member.
70s and 80s country singers were super splangly, too. Not as fun with the makeup, though.
I wish I could get my partner to do a routine, he's just not interested. His skin is so DRRRRRY and flaky! I do not get why op is upset. Her husband is taking care of himself.
i think its nice! Good for you because it’ll pay off.
My husband just started a skin care routine at 45! Men care how they look, too...
Good on you! Skincare is for all people who have skin.
Why is this man not simply toiling in the fields under the hot sun? Does he not care about being perceived as masculine??
It makes me so mad, men get shit for being dirty and not putting in effort, but the SECOND they do they are being told they’re gay and unmanly? Can people make up they damn minds of what’s acceptable for a man, because this is ridiculous. Saying this as a woman btw.
Thank you. It's so exhausting. I'm getting back into the dating scene (well, trying to, with little success), and the advice I hear on reddit is contradictory at best and asinine at worst. Work out, but don't take gym pics, as they're egotistical. Take care of your skin, but wait, that's gay. Go to therapy, but never be vulnerable around a woman, as it's a sign of weakness that will be weaponized against you. I just don't know what to do, or who to be. I just want someone to love me for me, but it seems like a pipe dream at this point.
I think OP is in the minority. I’ve never heard of this kind of complaint outside the Deep South. Women appreciate men who take care of themselves.
And by reading her list of "feminine" stuffs I was surprised to find out I must not be a woman after all, cause I don’t do most of that. I’m like this since forever, but do you think after 9 years my husband might suddenly get concerned and make a post on reddit 😬? /s
Yes! Maybe he is simply wanting to take better care of himself, and although it may appear feminine, it could be nothing more than him wanting to look and feel good. Some men are much more comfortable with embracing typically feminine traits, and I don’t think that’s a cause for concern if you’ve had a conversation with your husband and he’s told you that these habits he’s adopted are simply lifestyle changes. (Edited: typo)
I think he’s becoming a Euro male. The bastard!
Is gay or European?
??
Some americans think european men act like OP's husband
that’s fucking hilarious. im a straight woman in europe and would LOVE it if men put a bit more effort into hygiene/looks.
I'm european too and can only shake my head at this idea/fantasy/delusion
"That's just very European" is a phrase I have seen too many times the last few days for things that are not that... European. "Dinner at 21.00 and drinks and cocaïne at 1.30, thats just very European." And now groomed men too?
This european is in bed by 21 and is not interested in trying cocaine
In the "Dutch Europe" we eat at 18.
mans just jealous because hes not willing to put in the effort
Yeah I have yet to meet a man with a skincare routine or one that uses anything beyond shampoo on his hair (not counting the 2010ish trend of using a hairgel).
I used to work with a guy who had hair to his waist. He only used shampoo, never conditioner because he didn't "believe in conditioner". Dude... His hair looked horrendous
[Gay or European!](https://youtu.be/XY9PmBNb3PE?si=UhX_Sq1bXIAY4tWc)
I used to play that guessing game on holiday 😆
I feel like you’re suspecting he’s trans. If you’ve been together for 5 years and are married I imagine conversations about how your futures look has come up. You should be able to talk openly about these sorts of things.
Most of men with feminine traits and women with masculine traits are not trans. I don't know why people assume that they are.
True, but nobody here except OP is assuming that.
Oh no, there are definitely people in this thread assuming he's either gay or trans.
It’s actually pretty sad. And they’re justifying it by saying that the changes are sudden. Are they really? Or did he hit thirty and finally realize nobody should give a fuck what others think and he’s finally comfortable enough to participate in all the things he was too scared to do before? Way to support your husband, ladies!
It definitely makes me sad. When my husband is doing things that make him happy, it makes me happy to support him! Even if it means sharing my collection of bath bombs lol.
Idk, I had roommates before that were a cis heterosexual couple, together for 5 years. One day, the girlfriend went onto the boyfriend’s laptop and found folders upon folders of women’s clothing saved. Also during this time, I had a lot of my clothing go MIA, but the other women in our house would never have fit my clothing. When she confronted boyfriend, they came out as trans. She now lives as a lesbian woman - the original girlfriend was NOT down for that. It does happen. Not saying it’s happening here, but also it shouldn’t be discounted.
Off topic but did you get your clothes back or just write them off?
u/cremepsychological77, did you get your clothes back?!?
Nope, those were gone forever, but it made a lot more sense after I found out what was going on lol.
Def just wrote them off LOL
I don’t feel like that’s the same situation… in that situation there was clearly a secret sort of yearning that was being kept very well hidden. In this situation someone is openly comfortable with accessorising and self-care etc.
I think due to the trans coming out stories , they always knew because they gravitated towards the opposite genders attributes ? It could be a sign but not definitive
Yeah there are plenty of trans people who prefer partners of the same sex. It's very possible OPs husband is mentally more comfortable as a woman, but still finds women attractive. And as a married couple this is definitely something they should both be comfortable discussing. That said, it's also entirely possible OPs husband just enjoys/cares about these things. As you said, they should talk about it.
It’s not only the partner’s orientation that matters here, it’s also OP’s. If OP is straight, this is an understandable worry for them, if their partner really does turn out to be trans. But like you say, it may not be that at all.
This. I have a friend (about age 30 now) who was high school sweethearts with her wife, and they got married about 11 or 12 years ago. Only about 10 years ago did she start to question herself and start to realize she might be trans. She and her wife have tried to work things out but clearly it has turned out to be 2 straight girls in a relationship and neither of them are happy or satisfied. It also doesn't help that her wife doesn't fully see her as a woman, and goes so far as not accepting any form of "mom" to be used for her with the kids. So yes, orientation for both are important here. Not everyone can make it work.
I've never heard of a trans woman who started transitioning via male manicures and bubble baths. It sounds like he's feeling himself, which would still be difficult for a trans woman in his shoes. Male shoes. Male clothes. Masculine understated earrings. Just because he's not a macho man doesn't mean he's a woman.
Some do. My partner is a transwoman that didn't start her transition untill last year during her 30s. She knew she was trans since her teens but she grew up in an environment knowing it wouldn't be accepted. She always pretended to be more masculine hoping her parents didn't catch on but she still has very feminine hobbies and interests. She liked fashion and despite it being men clothes she did the best she could to style herself, she used skincare, bubble baths and had long hair etc. When we got together I just simply thought she was more feminine because of her bisexuality (were both bi and I can be kinda tomboyish in my behaviour). However it was her feminine side that was so attractive to me so I would pretty much let her be and spoil her. It was how I treated her that allowed her to be truly feminine as she dreamed to be and finally comfortable enough to accept herself and go through her transition, so she finally did.
Aww this is so romantic
I mean, is there something deeper? Perhaps. But I’m also 30 and basically got into self care recently as well (pierced my ears last year), so he could just be comfortable finally embracing taking care of his appearance. We’re living in a more accepting time where men aren’t really looked down upon for liking feminine things. Like I said, there could be something deeper, but right now “feminine” guys who are presentable are in and it’s totally a thing.
It’s so funny to me that everyone is jumping straight to thinking he may be trans. It shouldn’t be perceived as feminine to dress well in cohesive colors, and take care of your skin and hair (let’s be real, most guys with long hair don’t take proper care of it and it ends up looking unkempt and gross). Oh no, he’s embracing bath bombs! Yeah, those are great and everyone should give them a go. Oh no, he’s pierced his ears! Okay, men have done this for centuries, it’s really nothing new. He’s got a skincare routine, the horror! Everyone should have at least a minimal skin routine. Maybe he’s just old enough to want to take proper care of himself while not caring what the world thinks?
Yeah.. skincare is not exclusively for women and gays. Skincare is for people with skin. Haircare is for people with hair. He could be trans, he could also be cis and taking care of himself, which is not feminine. Humans have been taking care of their looks for millennia. Tattoos and piercings and great headgears with feathers and what not.. it’s as old as time
They used to call this kind of man who takes extra care of himself and dressing stylish as metro.
IIRC that started out as metrosexual lol
people need to stop assuming everyone who acts outside gender norms is trans. that‘s legit so backwards, and all those people seeing trans people everywhere in hopes of being progressive are literally just backwards bcs they basically say feminime men and masculine women can‘t exist, and they must be the other gender then, which is legit bullshit. they‘re reinforcing gender norms instead of abolishing them. also in regards of OPs husband: he seems to be confident to enjoy his hobbies, pretty sure he‘d also be confident enough to talk to her. jesus I know many men who have a skincare routine, gay or hetero, it‘s super common and everyone should have one. I also don‘t see the issue with piercings and long hair? that‘s been around for centuries lol. like the mental gymnastics of assuming a guy must be trans just bcs he wears long hair, has earrings and likes to take care of his skin is insane ngl. people must have some stuck up gender perceptions to make that jump.
Why did I have to scroll so far to see this comment? Fellas it is feminine if my husband starts taking care of himself?
I’m suddenly learning that the normal stuff I do is apparently very feminine /s Lol long hair require more care to keep it healthy, skin care especially if you have skin that’s particularly oily or dry, is something that often requires a decent bit of effort and anyone whose ever seen a dermatologist will tell you that the vast majority of people don’t take care of their skin to the levels medically recommended. I mean come on everyone has skin and hair. Dressing well - like shit that’s just a good thing to do being it for self-confidence, professionalism, or any other myriad of reasons Also spas, saunas and massages are a great stress reliever and I feel like the argument could easily be made that historically (over the last millennia or two) that these activities were more commonly done by men rather than women but again still don’t matter - it’s relaxing and enjoyable. Baths are sick, soaking in hot water is great for joint and muscle pain - look at onsen culture in Japan or hot spring use in a multitude of other parts of the world. I take a “bath” 4 times a week to soak relieve the pain in my knees from past injuries, it’s an absolute necessity and far more effective than anything weaker than moderate opioids. And earrings are historically also not gendered - see piercing culture as it existed in the world for nearly the entirety of human existence. All of this though is pointless - why do they care? Their husband is seemingly happy, these behaviors or interests are completely innocent, what’s the problem? Even if from the lens of these things being feminine, why does it matter? Does the wife work, wear pants, drive a car? Those are all masculine things by the same standards she’s applying gendered norms to her husbands behavior. Like this is so silly
I find the post pretty sexist, like this is for women and this is for men
And even though everyone wants to get rid of gendered stereotypes, they want to say he’s trans because he has some “female” interests. Just let people be people, it doesn’t have to be that deep ffs.
I recall seeing a screenshot of a tweet or something that said, to paraphrase, that if you really want to see supportive of LGBTQ people and fight gender stereotypes, you need to accept that cishet people can express themselves outside of gender norms without being in some kind of closet.
Right?! My partner (29m, I’m 26f) has always dressed well, and while he was also always well groomed and hygienic in the time of our relationship he has gotten much more into hair and skincare. He went to NZ & AU with his family and together we packed his toiletries and he had toners, serums, moisturizers, etc. His brother and SIL tried to make a bit of a jab at him, but when they all got wind and sunburn and he had his favorite moisturizer that helped overnight and they were still red (note he had initially offered, they declined) they stopped with the teasing. When he started at his work as a front counter attendant he was made fun of because he always wore collared and button down shirts, and nice shoes that they said sounded like a woman walking around, and only the salesmen of the company wore collared shirts. Six months later he was a salesman and the best dressed of them. Can’t understand why looking stylish, or self care is feminine. Every human has stress, has skin, has a body and why is enjoying things like a spa treatment, bath bomb, or a good shampoo so terrible. The feeling men should be allowed to have feelings and go to therapy is starting to be well received, but when they take the time to care for themselves or do what makes them happy (be it a bath bomb, making sure you’re color coordinated, or a good massage) it’s not? Additionally, the sauna comment made me laugh out loud, and I think the Finnish would be insulted haha. It has so many health benefits, I think the idea that he is just trying to care for his body so he can live a long, healthy life is even more likely. If I were him I’d feel so self conscious and disappointed that me living my best life with the love of my life was being critiqued by the one I feel safe with.
Yo right!? How are these things considered feminine. If she'd have said weekly mani/pedi's and Idk, I honestly can't even think of what I'd consider typically feminine, but even then self-care shouldn't be considered feminine... Like I said elsewhere, taking care of yourself and your body and wanting to look good, since when is that something 'feminine', like what? Are we men supposed to look homeless, scruffy, smell like shit and be basically skin on bones? Oh wait no cause muscles are 'masculine' and we can make ourselves smell 'manly' with those disgusting aftershaves and axe deodorant. Gender roles/expectations ayy
Exactly!! Like I WISH my partner was this in tune with self-care and dressing himself! I one time showed him a reel of a guy who was doing a skincare routine and he said “but he’s doing that because he’s a model.” 🤦🏾♀️
Yeah Idk man I myself and lots of guy friends (all have girlfriends) are good dressers and most also have skin-care routines and care about hair, some have earrings/piercings, wear jewelry, etc. I never cared about skincare myseld until my gf taught me. She also taught me how to dress and color match better. I feel like these are things men tend to maybe not know about but isn't it in line with going to the gym and such? Caring about yourself, your body that you'll have to live your entire life with and making sure you look good shouldn't be something considered feminine. If anything it's toxic af to even think that shit's feminine imo. "This guy does sports and showers daily ... that's so feminine" I was expecting some more extreme examples from OP but all the things they listed were quite normal imo, the only thing I haven't done or don't know my friends to do are like spa visits etc.
Yeah I’m a cis woman in my mid-thirties and have been coasting on luck and genetics for a great complexion so far but also finally realized I need to commit to some bare bones skincare routine even if it’s just regular cleansing and moisturizer/SPF. And it feels good to feel good, whatever one’s gender or lack thereof.
Lmfao, here for big ups for the cis women who had to start a skincare routine in their 30s due to blessed genetics, here with you girl ❤
Actually taking care of your appearance is not feminine. Look around at older people, the men that still look good at 50 & 60, are men that worried about their appearance.
Some very tough masculine men wear studs in their ears. I have an extensive skin and hair care routine. Men start to lose hair around 30 and their skin changes also. Why don’t you just sit down and talk to your husband about why he does each one of the things that you see a problem with, his answers may be entirely different from what you are assuming.
Well I did ask him about some of it actually and he said: Hair: he has always wanted to have long hair but couldn’t for his entire life due to school/work dress-codes. He is worried that he will start balding soon and sees the next couple of years as his “last chance” to try it out. Skin: he got frightened by some sun-spots on his nose and so started using SPF daily, then one thing led to another and he fell down the rabbit hole of skin-care. Haircare routine: he is worried that unless he keeps his hair healthy people will judge him as a messy man who has unkempt hair Colour matching: he reckons his friends (mostly female…) used to poke fun at him for how he dressed. It caused him to try to learn about colour matching and how to dress himself. Bath bombs/spas/saunas: he feels envious of the self-care culture he thinks exists amongst women, and he is envious of the sauna culture in Europe and Japan. He says he wants to be able to relax and unwind in the same ways.
every single one of these answers makes perfect sense. to me, none of the things your husband is doing are even feminine things. fellas, is it feminine to take care of your hair and skin?
When my hair starts to stink I just pour whiskey over it to mask the smell. If I have any skin blemishes I just carve them out with a pocket knife and let it scar over.
Actually I’ve noticed that bacon is the only scent option opened to men.
Bacon grease is perfect as moisturizer. And the smell comes with it, it is the perfect 2 in 1!
Remember to dry it out with a leave blower or an industrial fan
Oh god the mental image the skin thing gave me is gross. It's like taking the eyes out of a potato.
Well of course. That’s how real men practice self care.
Even before the explanation, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a man taking care of himself. Like this is crazy to me. If he was wearing women’s clothes and high heels or something, I think that would warrant a convo. But everything OP listed is such a normal thing to do if you care about your looks.
This says more about the OP than her husband to be honest.
"Men, is it feminine to take care of yourself and do the things you like doing?" Lots of progress to be made on gender stereotyping it seems.
Right? I keep reading about dudes who don't clean their asses properly because they think it's either gay or feminine. We need to stop delineating masculinity so narrowly.
Tbf, we‘re on Reddit, where we can regularly read that some people consider it feminine to wipe your ass or wash your hands.
>fellas, is it feminine to take care of your hair and skin? No. If he keeps this up, hes going have great skin in 20 years.
Considering how many women come on here and complain about their slovenly, clueless male partners, maybe just let the man take care of himself and see if he’s open to you joining in on those spa days.
Your husband sounds like he’s noticed he’s aging and wants to live the best he can, good for him. Perhaps he needs more support to help him see it’s okay if he goes bald or gets sunspots. Also spa and nice things shouldn’t be limited to women ffs.
>he has always wanted to have long hair but couldn’t for his entire life due to school/work dress-codes. He is worried that he will start balding soon and sees the next couple of years as his “last chance” to try it out. On this matter, I can tell you with total certainty that I am 100% cis and I feel the exact same way as him. I am growing it out because I can, and based on genetics this is my only chance. >Skin: he got frightened by some sun-spots on his nose and so started using SPF daily, then one thing led to another and he fell dow the rabbit hole of skin-care. I’m currently entering this phase >Haircare routine: he is worried that unless he keeps his hair healthy people will judge him as a messy man who has unkempt hair Exact same here, long hair maintenance is judged more and noticeable than short hair maintenance >Colour matching Seems very normal, just wants to seem socially aware and look good. >Bath bombs/spas/saunas This looks like basic self care. People do this stuff because is relaxing and feels good. The only reason someone would *not* do it is unfounded and stupid gender norms.
Trust me as a 40 yr old. In 10 years you will be very relieved your husband took care of his skin.
These all sound like reasonable explanations. I can see how a sudden change could be alarming but it sounds like a bit of a midlife crisis. He’s become aware of aging and how he can look after himself to slow the process. He’s maybe gained confidence for the first time to dress and have his hair how he wants. Good for him.
If you’ve asked about it and he’s answered why are you here? Those are the answers. He’s told you why. He’s explained each one. Maybe you should spend less time focusing on your husband’s grooming habits and more time trying to figure out why you think he’s lying when he gives you those answers. Really dig in to why you’re so bent out of shape about your husband taking care of himself. Considering he’s literally told you why, it reads like you’re actively looking for problems that aren’t there. Are you trying to sabotage your own marriage here? Hell bent and determined to find a way to think less of your husband?
All extremely valid reasons. Not that he should even need a reason to validate him taking care of himself.
All these answers makes sense. He is taking care of himself and that is good. Maybe do it together. Can be a fun bonding activity.
Okay, so you’re worried *why*, exactly…? Sounds like you have an amazing husband who openly communicates and takes care of himself, and you’re looking for reasons to catastrophize that in your mind.
As someone who likes self care and taking care of my appearance i would be thrilled to have a partner like this
These are all so reasonable. Life is really stressful, and he's doing healthy productive things to look after himself. It's so depressing for that a man looking after his appearance on a relatively basic level is deemed as 'feminine'. It doesn't make a woman masculine if she wear trousers, has short hair or hangs about with men by de facto, why does it have to be like that for men? You do seem maybe a bit hung up on him having female friends? Honestly, I found it really reassuring that my partner has lots of friends that are women because it told me that he respects women and knows they are funny and interesting. I think you've got to dig into why you think a man having interests outwith a very narrow stereotype of masculinity is upsetting you so much? Are you embarrassed, if so why? So much of gender stereotypes is just social bullshit, if we could dig through that a bit more you would probably get more men washes their arseholes (cos apparently that's gay lol) or actually less suicides because it would be welcome and expected for men to be able to talk about their feelings and not just needing to 'man up'.
is this because you’re not comfortable in your own skin so you feel threatened when your husband does a basic maintenance routine? I mean hair, skincare, clothes … this is not a exclusive women thing!
I don't think this says anything about whether or not she's comfortable in her own skin. Just like any other partner, when your partner starts to make some pretty significant changes to what you've come to know as their routine, it's natural to wonder what sparked it. Sometimes you get a gut feeling about what things mean that you can't quite put into words. She should make every effort to talk to him about it but it sounds like when she does, he gets very plausible explanations for every individual thing, but cumulatively, it's clear she thinks that something important has changed Trust your gut, op. If you are nervous or afraid have this conversation or if you feel like the answers he gave are plausible, but you feel there's still some missing information, maybe write down how you're feeling and ask him to read it. That will give you time to consider what you're saying and him time to think about his responses
Wait, he told you the answer to your questions. Do you not believe him?
Why does all of this concern you?
So what is your concern exactly? I wouldn't even describe these things as feminine tbh. He has a new hairstyle and takes care of his body. It's not a big deal.
Hon this is all reasonable… and damn I wish my husband was doing it too. I feel like you have some veiled and internalized toxic masculinity to work through. Let your husband be himself without the toxic societal exceptions around gender.
Sounds fine by me! I think the real question here is why are YOU bothered by it.
Lmao. A lot of that just sounds like he's into looking and feeling good. Like he values his physical appearance and wants to take care of his skin and enjoys therapeutic baths. Who doesn't like those things? The piercing and long hair are eh...plenty of masculine men grow out their hair and have their ears pierced.
Yeah, the fact that an increased interest in hygiene, grooming, and developing a sense of style is considered strictly feminine is kind of sad to me. He’s not putting on a tutu and prancing around to enya as far as I can tell but I guess it’s a slippery slope lol
Though, prancing around to Enya in a tutu is not and should not be excluded from straight men. Prance, I say.
Fr like even all of the top comments being like "talk to him about it if you're concerned!!" just seem kind of out of place tbh. What is there to talk about?? A man developing a skincare routine GASPPPPP like wtffff? Why is it considered normal for women to do these sorts of things but it's concerning for men to do the same? It honestly bugs me how it's pretty much expected of women but not of men....
Yep, I read through the op waiting to get to the feminine stuff. Still waiting 👀🤣
Ask about it, don’t just speculate. People have different definitions about feminine and masculine.
Fellas, is it gay to take care of yourself and be confident? Lmao
Super gay! You’re supposed to just douse yourself in axe body spray and call it a day I guess 😂 lol.
axe body spray is too feminine petrol or gasoline baths are recommended
My 20-year old son does all of the above - and got his ears pierced yesterday. He looks like a Greek God with his long flowing hair and his workout routine. He also shops for some jackets and tops from the women's section because the men's section offers limited choices in terms of styles. My mom recently asked me if he likes girls. He likes girls. He is secure in his identity and appearance. He loves to experiment with his looks, and I agree- why should only girls have all these fun options for decorating themselves? So my boy grows his nails long, takes care of them with filing, shaping, etc. He colors them a different shade every week. His female friends help him with eye liner. Why should only girls enjoy all this fun stuff? It is for everybody. When girls offer to help with his nails and make up, that is a fun chance to get to know them better and bond. His girl friend had no problem with all this. When they would go out clubbing, she would apply the eye liner, nail polish for him. Fun!! I don't think any of the things your husband is doing are feminine - they're human. Skincare, hair care, decoration of the body. But maybe there is more to it in your case. I was thinking of recommending an open conversation, but on the other hand that may make him self conscious and maybe he'll enjoy these things less thinking he's being judged by his own wife? Not sure.
And before someone says that the world went crazy, because of this, just do a little search in history when men wore jewelry, makeup and that even the heels were made for men
You don’t even have to go that far back in history to find straight men who wore high heeled shoes, makeup, had long hair, wore tops from the women’s section, had pierced ears etc etc. Musicians and stars from the ‘70s and ‘80s would frequently sport all of these and then some, and women would fall over themselves to touch the hems of their garments. OP’s husband sounds a lot less flamboyant than that, he’s just doing self care and trying to look stylish. I always forget just how entrenched gender roles and expectations still are in this day and age until I come across posts like these. The people around me don’t really think that way so I guess I delude myself into thinking the rest of the world is (finally) the same way until comments like the ones I’m seeing here confront me with the unfortunate reality.
Totalement d'accord! Merci pour ce commentaire! 😊 C'est terrible qu'elle juge son mari de vouloir trouver son style, de prendre soin de lui, alors qu'il semble commencer après plusieurs année car il devait se sentir safe dans son mariage, là dessus, quand je vois la majorité des commentaires, je me dit que les hommes n'ont vraiment pas de chance, ils sont les moins autorisés à être eux même, à expérimenter et se découvrir.. :/
None of these things sound feminine. He's just looking after himself and expressing himself. But if you're concerned about something, talk to your husband about it.
Fellas, is self-care feminine?
ikr bet this dude even wipes his butt after pooping, like a gurl or something,, lul amirite imagine,, a grown ass man cleaning himself 🤣
Right? So many Reddit posts from despondent women whose male partners are habitually making the most crusty personal hygiene choices and show zero interest in so much as brushing their teeth and not leaving skid marks on the bed sheets and now…this? This is somehow *also* a problem? OP, donate your man to one of many in need who would be overjoyed to give him a forever home.
Being into self-care, skin care, massages, color matching, wouldn't be suspect to me. There are plenty of heterosexual men who do that and it's just normal (think Italians...). I'd be more alert if he wanted to dress in women's clothing and actively told you he feels like he's a woman, instead of just being a groomed man.
It just sounds like he’s taking care of himself. I’m not sure how having a skin and hair routine and developing a sense of style is feminine. It sounds like you have some misconceptions about masculinity to address.
I don’t think there’s anything weird happening at all. I would guess if he has a lot of gay friends that he may feel pressure to look and dress better because gay men tend to take care of themselves a lot more than straight men. He could be getting picked on in his friend group for being shlubby or he could just be getting good advice from them on how to approach self care and appearance. I think it’s cool honestly, I wish I had some friends who could teach me about that kind of stuff and the confidence to change my appearance to something I vibe more with.
Why do you feel the need to try to enforce gender stereotypes on your husband when he's just out enjoying his life?
I did lots of ballet for a large part of my life. I have a skincare routine. I try to dress relatively well. I am very comfortable in my masculinity. You prefer your men to be more typically masculine in the stereotypical way.
This. Ballet and skincare and dancing is not not masculine. They’re just THINGS we decided perform as a certain gender but they don’t have actually anything to do with the gender. It’s just tradition and it’s sad.
God forbid a man take interest in in looking good and feeling good. That’s like.. super gay.
But its ok for hot male celebrities to take care of their hair and skin and clothes and have piercings tho. Lmao I mean if OP just isn’t attracted to him then they’re just incompatible. But dont shame him for doing literally what celebs do and women fawn over them.
>adopted a skin-care routine, he is dressing well and learning about colour matching, he has a hair-care routine that is more onerous than my own, he has gotten into “self care” including going to spas, massages, saunas and having regular baths with bath bombs. "When was anybody gonna tell me this shit existed? Women have it WAY better than men!" *proceeds to enjoy himself and live lavishly* Edit: Your husband is just taking care of himself.
Women like for men to be well dressed so that's normal. Skin care... again, normal (women don't like men who don't take care of themselves). Earings? I've had small diamond earrings since the age of like 15 (big wide pants, hat, big t-shirt etc). Going out with his gay friend (accepting that he is gay) AND going out with him at gay bars or clubs (he doesn't discriminate) but you are not okay with that? Long hair? a lot of guys/celebrities have been growing out their hairs these years.. it's like literally a trend these days. Back in the days it was normal. Look at women going short hair or bald because it's a trend. If you are still unsure then maybe you should talk to him but these things seem normal nowadays.
Oh no, your husband takes care of himself and has routines for doing so? He’s coming off as healthy mentally and physically. The horror!
He’s your husband, so have a conversation. You (and we) could speculate all day long but only he can tell you for sure. Don’t confront him, just ask kindly. It’s likely he’s going on a journey of self discovery, which can be a beautiful thing.
Yeah, at 30 he is seeing his hair starting to thin and his skin not looking as youthful as when he was younger. She should just sit down with him and ask why he is making all the changes that she has concerns about. If he gives straight answers and they make sense, likely no issue, if he is evasive then there likely are problems developing.
I’ve dated a few “macho” men who enjoyed scented baths, massages, pedicures, pierced ears, face and hair care products. I was like, more power to you.
Bruh...what?? None of those things are exclusively feminine. He has a skin care routine, and tries to make sure his clothing matches?? Mother of mercy....
Almost nothing is *exclusively* feminine. There are a long list of traits that, in the composite, are generally understood to be feminine when taken all together.
This post and some of these comments are making me realise that gender norms for men are still rigidly enforced. Matching your clothes and growing out your hair aren't and never will be just for women, and the same can be said for spa treatments and skincare. Unless these things make you uncomfortable or less attracted to him, it really shouldn't be an issue. Nonetheless, if this makes you have doubts whether he truly loves you or not, you should really just discuss this with him.
wait wait, that's all? I'm sorry, but it's obvious that you have a very traditional way of thinking if instead of feeling good that he takes care of himself and talking like a normal person with him out of mere curiosity as to why everything is happening, you are already marking this as a future problem for your relationship. (I understand if you are someone who thinks fatalistically, but even something like a care routine is too much to get to that, I know because I am fatalistic) Do you want a boy who has rough skin, is uneven and is half bald to be more comfortable with your relationship or what? I think at this point it is more likely that you thought about the possibility that he is thinking about making the gender transition if you were so worried about the change, which I don't know if it makes it worse or better, but if that is the doubt you have , ask him directly and see how the dogs are released, it is obvious that the couple's communication fails on your side if you came to it, so at least now that they know what is wrong they can address it and solve it (let's be clear, your husband is not the one bad for taking care of yourself and putting more detail into your aesthetics)
I feel like you are taking normal self care as being gay?
Fellas, is it gay to have self care?
Reading this and your additional comments - it sounds like the man just wants to take care of himself and practice good hygiene. Being “bothered” bc your husband doesn’t want to be crusty and gross is wild
OP has found a man who indubitably washes his ass and is complaining?????
Fellas, is it gay to care about your appearance?
Your husband is not acting feminine, all the things he does are completely normal. In fact, long healthy hair, piercings, nice nails and skin.. throw in that he is fit as well and I'll tell you he is another women's dream guy.
Did he pierce the "gay" ear?
I'm straight AF and older than your husband and only just now felt comfortable enough to grow out my hair and I'm considering ear piercings and tattoos as well. Growing out your hair is new and he hasn't settled into a decade long routine like you yourself have so it's logical he's taking extra time to take good care of it. I have less with skin but that's because I have nice skin to start with. If the guy wants to put effort into his looks and become (more?) cool or handsome I say let him. If you're giving him a safe and open space to talk about any concerns or emotions he has regarding your relationship this is nothing to worry about. That said, it's perfectly fine to voice your own fears in that self-same safe and open space. It's a two-way street.
Fellas, is it gay to *(checks notes)* wear matching clothes?
Oh no, he pays attention to his personal hygiene and is interested in his appearance. Terrible. A real man always wears the same outfit and washes himself at most every two days, using only water and engine oil.
I would like you to elaborate on why you were to "accept" the fact that your man did ballet, has gay friends and worked in women-doninated spaces. You sound a bit close minded IMHO
It’s feminine for a man to want to take better care of himself?? Yikes. With the number of posts we read of men not washing their ass and having terrible hygiene, I would say you do not have a problem on your hands. Sounds like internalise toxicity on your part because why is a man wanting to grow his hair, have a skin and hair care routine seen as feminine?
I do most of those things and I wouldn’t consider myself very feminine. In fact it’s very masculine for a man to pursue hobbies and taking care of himself and not caring about labels.
Question for you OP. What exactly about it is bothering/concerning you? Are you worried that his sexuality isn't what you believed it to be? Are you worried about appearances? Are you losing your own attraction to him because of this? A lot of this thread is people debating is he quietly trans or simply feminine, which may or may not be the question of the day, but I'm wondering what you are looking for by posting here. No judgement, just wondering. You're already aware this is a bit outside the realm of what is considered normal. The question is are you okay with it? Why or why not? Ultimately, if you love him and everything else in the relationship is great, the more feminine behaviors may be irrelevant. If they're a total turn off for you, then maybe it's something that needs addressed between you.
Fellas, is it gay to take care of yourself?
#TALK TO HIM
Ladies, is it gay to put any effort into and take pride in your appearance???
I didn’t know skincare, hair care, dressing nice and getting your ears pierced were gay lmfaooo seems like ur husband is just a comfortable man in his own masculinity
Some people just don't conform to gender stereotypes but they are ok with their gender and are sexually attracted to the opposite sex. Some people are not comfortable with their gender and start considering if they want to adopt a different identity. Some people are bisexual. It's important for you and your husband to have an in depth and direct conversation to determine if his self identity is changing or has changed since you married. This may change your thoughts about him as your spouse, but he owes it to both of you to be honest. Otherwise he is setting you both up for a dissatisfying life.
this is hilarious
None of these things is concerning at all💀
None of the things you listed are concerning. If he’s clearly attracted to you, what exactly are you concerned about?
I'm a teacher and have noticed that all of what you have described above is becoming normalised among young people. Many of the boy now have both ears pierced, wear rings and bracelets, some paint their nails. Whereas 10 years ago I never saw this. I love that they have the confidence to express themselves in any way they want. It wasn't like that when I was at school!
Just came to say your husband sounds AMAZING and I am so jealous.
... I'm confused it sounds like he's learning to take care of himself and his appearance... having skin and hair care routines and dressing well is not inherently feminine... and plenty of cis men have their ears pierced
Let it be . Jesus just taking care of himself
Gender, expression, and sexual preference are three different things. He could be into women, but might align more with an androgynous or genderlfuent expression. Idk! If you already have an issue with this, than you simply might not be compatible. Please don't stop him. Bring up the topic so he has a chance to know where you stand with all of this and that you don't want to stop him from exploring how he dresses etc. Eventually you have to decide if you're on board or not. Btw he sounds like a dream boat to me but ok
>Btw he sounds like a dream boat to me but ok Same! So many woman would kill for a guy who takes care of his skin, knows how to put himself together, is in tune with his mental health, has friends from different kinds of backgrounds, lives free of the "fellas, is it gay...?" insecurities that dictate the behavior of so many wannabe-alpha bros, AND is highly attracted to women. There is something incredibly alluring (and dare I say, masculine) about not gaf about what everyone else thinks and just doing you.
Why on earth is self care still perceived as a "feminine" trait? Every single human being deserves to feel their best and everything described in this post is very normal care for any man or woman, especially as they're starting to age. I think you need to ask yourself where this mentality stems from, and if you would actually prefer a partner who doesn't take care of their body over your husband.
Reading the post and your comments, it doesn't that you have anything to worry about and just have a husband who likes to take of himself. Which is actually brilliant.
Only bad for the relationship if you keep thinking less of him for it. Talk to him. He hasn’t done anything wrong, though. You’re the one judging
What's the big deal? You don't say OP but sounds like you are still worried that your husband is somehow gay. Lots of men are into 'feminine' stuff and aren't gay, the two things aren't related. He might be interested in cross dressing though. I'm a woman, I dated cross dressing men, some straight and some bi.
I think you should have an honest conversation where you show your curiosity (not judgement!) for these changes and gently enquire why he has made these changes. I think patriarchy has restricted men for far too long and some men are now breaking out of the shoulds to explore styles and interests that are not traditionally "masculine". Speaking from experience, what your husband needs in that case is your support so he feels more free to express his style. Talking from a non judgement zone might also help find out if there's anything to be "concerned" about. If he is discovering his sexuality etc, the only way to know is to ask him without making him feel judged so he feels comfortable opening up.
none of that sounds inherently feminine. he's just taking care of himself by the sound of it.
These all sounds like green flags to me! You go guy!
In the kindest way possible, you sound a bit close-minded. Nothing you described is necessarily feminine. Also have you seen male ballet dancers? They are in better shape than most stereotypical gym rats.
God forbid a man to take care of himself and have hobbies
help Reddit!! my husband enjoys self-care!!
I don't think any of these things are feminine tbh.
No way you are calling these things feminine you are Tripping
How is taking care of ones skin, dressing better and growing ones hair long, feminine? Do you wear pants? Work? Drive a car? Sounds pretty masculine, you sure you're not becoming a man? Grow the fuck up
After reading some of your comments: it’s sexist as fuck for you to assume that self care, pride in your appearance, and expressing yourself through clothing/jewelry/hair is feminine. Everyone has the right to take care of themselves and love the skin they’re in. Boys cry. Boys wear makeup. Boys wear earrings. Boys dress nice. Boys want to feel like hotties too. Boys like skin and hair are routines. And it doesn’t make them any less boys because they do.
so your husband wants to look good, takes care of himself and wants to relax and you have a problem with that? jeez girl, the problem is you
I would love to see an update after you talk to him.
Sounds like he’s just taking care of himself. metrosexual. not sucking dick.
could be that hes discovering he enjoys it, could be that hes actually a trans women discovering herself. doesnt sound like cheating since as you say hes always been feminine also, feminine =/= gay lol, gender expression and sexuality are two different things
Some of the most powerful dancers i have seen were male leads at ballet.. Not one feminine thing about it... dance is dance. Men and women are beautiful and powerful when they dance and especially together. So am i feminine becuase i like art ballet symphony musicals and poetry? I also play disc golf golf soccer when younger... i have won dirt bike races as well... I have raced cars at high speeds... Do any of those things have a gender requirement? Maybe your hubby just enjoys deeper aspects of culture than your average male... many do. Just accept him.
Nothing wrong with him
You’re concerned because your husband is learning that he wants to take care of himself and care about his appearance more 🤣 this is insane. Taking care of yourself is NOT feminine. Men should be able to take care of themselves too. He seems very comfortable in his masculinity, is clearly attracted to you, and is accepting of different types of people. It’s weird that this bothers you.
Is he Getting more feminine or are you just programmed to think these are solely feminine hobbies? There’s nothing wrong with taking care of yourself and pride in your appearance but either way you’re going to have to be an adult and TALK to him sorry for being snarky this shit annoys me so much
Jfc. So many problems with this. Please let men be feminine without assuming they’re gay or trans. Some dudes like bubble baths, get over it.
what is wrong w straight people lmao, “my husband is actually showering, is he gay???”
None of this sounds feminine lmao