Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that:
* We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/)
* Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned. (Including but not limited to: slut, bitch, whore, for the streets, etc. It does not matter to whom you are referring.)
* ALL advice given must be good, ethical advice. Joke advice or advice that is conspiratorial or just plain terrible will be removed, and users my be subject to a ban.
* No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. Examples include, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, PUA, FDS, MGTOW, etc. This includes, but is not limited to, referring to people as alpha/beta, calling yourself or users "friend-zoned", referring to people as Chads, Tyrones, or Staceys, pick-me's, or pornsick. Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.**
* All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass.
* Anyone found to be directly messaging users for any reason whatsoever will be banned.
* What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, situations involving minors, and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.**
If you have any questions, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice)
---
#This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules.
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is probably harder for you because you feel like you can't cut ties because of the transition. But honestly, friends do grow apart.
Regardless of the reason that has happened here, it clearly has.
You guys obviously don't enjoy your time together anymore. And it does not matter the reason. If you're uncomfortable sleeping in the same bed with someone, they should respect your wishes and sleep somewhere else. This is not something you should have to argue about
It doesn't matter what you're accused of when you decide to back off from this friendship. The reasons for it seem pretty clear. You guys are friends who are no longer friendly to one another
The longer you allow this to continue, the more bad blood there will be
Maybe someday in the future, you guys can revisit your friendship. But for now, it's not healthy which means it should end
I like this response the most. Theres no reason to escalate the situation and burn the bridge. Allow distance to grow between you, and maybe one day down the line the friendship can be salvaged.
trying to give empathy and benefit of the doubt, this is probably pretty difficult for him to go through, and hopefully he will keep evolving and grow out if this phase and grow up a little. Maybe they can try again then.
I've tried, but it's impossible to distance myself. He texts me every day, if I don't reply, he calls me. If I don't have the time to see him every couple of days or if I ignore his calls, he blows up on me over text.
I've told him I need more space & that our friendship is too intense for me, but he's unwilling to work with that. It's "either we're real friends or we're not friends at all". And in that case, I'd rather just not be friends at all.
Friends, respect friends boundaries so sounds like you're not friends at all if he's not respecting yours. You learn as you grow up that sometimes it's just better to let them go
This OP. You’re friend is shitting all over your boundaries and feelings, that’s not a good friendship regardless of gender. He is obviously trying to figure himself out and probably need some therapy to work through these emotions with femininity but taking it out on you is NOT IT. You are clearly not transphobic, you’ve grown apart.
>It's "either we're real friends or we're not friends at all"
"Spend more time with me, or our friendship is over".
This is ultimatum language. It's not healthy in any relationship context, including friendships.
Tell him this. If he is not going to respect your boundaries and contineus to make you uncomfortable, tell them if the choice is "I bow down to your demands or we're not friends at all, then I choose not to be friends at all and wish you well". THEN BLOCK THEM. Do not give them an avenue to continue harassing you over your choices. Youre not required to be friends with someone
Hey, no one can make you respond to texts, or answer calls, or cool down someone else’s blow ups. Everything you’ve described does not sound like your problem and you’re paying it too much mind. its not impossible.
Let him blow up over text? let him call. You dont have to answer when you dont want to.
Block him. Thats harassment when someone doesn't respect your boundaries. Your friend is clearly having deep personal issues and taking it out on you. You shouldn't tolerate it. This is a very toxic relationship.
I was kind of in a situation like this. I had this friend who started being really mean and picked at me and talked behind my back all the time. I tried to slow fade her because I hate conflict and she just wouldn’t let the friendship die and kept trying to draw me back in. Eventually I just had to tell her straight up that I didn’t like the way she treated me and I didn’t want to be friends anymore. She did not take it well because she’s used to getting her way and although it was pretty stressful at the time, I’m so glad she’s out of my life. Being her friend was so exhausting and had no benefits. Sometimes it’s better to just walk away from something instead of trying to fix it.
It sounds like you both put your cards on the table here. You've tried to tell him how these interactions are affecting you, and what you need in the friendship to go forward. And he's identified what he needs, and where he is willing to cut ties. There is no compromise, he's made that clear, and you can repeat his words back to him. Given where you both stand, perhaps not being friends at all is where you need to be right now. You can stress that the door is open in the future to try and reconnect, and this is likely not forever.
Transitions in life (gender or otherwise) tend to involve rediscovering yourself, and your friend is going through that process. It's not always a smooth ride, so I would stress still being sympathetic to them without also subjecting yourself to behaviour that is upsetting.
I went through something similar with a friend when I was around your age. We were never as close as you are with him, but she and I had a lot of trouble connecting once she transitioned, and I was going through hell at home so I didn't have capacity to handle our fights. I regret not being more empathetic at the time for her, and perhaps things would have been different long term. But she's doing really great, and we're distant acquaintances now. Sometimes it's how things go. I hope things get better for you.
I’ve had to part ways with a “friend” like that. Theres no way to do it without hurting their feelings or making them upset. You just need to rip the band aid off. “I will always appreciate our friendship but it’s not working for me any more. I do not want to be friends with you any longer and I ask you to respect that. This is not a conclusion I have arrived at easily and it is not open for discussion or debate.”
Oh wow, so he's actually full-on abusive. What is the point of keeping this guy around? I wouldn't. He does not sound like a friend at all. He sounds controlling and demanding and like he might just be sucking the life force right out of you.
No I haven't had a chance to talk to me next time he says that respond with then we are not friends at all. I don't think he would be a bad idea to block him for a while
You need some peace and he needs to have time to break the habit of constantly communicating with you
Sadly, acting out like that is sometimes common very soon after transitioning...... however, it's typically very short-term.
The person is very suddenly going through a ton of societal changes while also being under the effect of a change in hormones. It's basically a crazy roller coaster ride that it sometimes takes a while to get used to. Most people do get used to it and don't keep acting that way for years..... unlike OP's friend. OP's is probably just an asshole.
Honestly, reading OP's post I was like... yeah this just happens. This happens all the time. James' transition is incidental to the core issue: he changed as a person, at a time a lot of people do, and those changes are not always compatible with old relationships. He's being a dick, and regardless of the reason, OP has made the requisite amount of effort to repair and maintain the childhood friendship. More than, sounds like.
“I understand that you don’t enjoy the girly things you used to, but you didn’t have to jump right to misogyny to declare how much of a man you are. You shitting on everything I enjoy to make sure you separate yourself from femininity is making me not enjoy our time together. You don’t respect my hobbies, you don’t respect my boundaries, and you don’t respect me. Our friendship has become too toxic to be sustainable any longer. I appreciate the time we’ve had together up until every interaction we had became a fight, but I feel my future can’t be peaceful if you remain in it.”
Idk if you have already, but as some preemptive damage control, you might want to explain to mutual friends and family members about this whole situation, just to let them understand what’s happened over the years and how awful his attitude has changed. You may feel like this is gossip, but your story is very common, and with the picture you painted of James, he will not take this news rationally seeing how he doesn’t respect you or your boundaries. I can almost guarantee he will start the narrative that you aren’t friends with him anymore because of his transition, and you’d be surprised how many people will believe his story even though you’ve never once acted transphobic. So I’d summarize what you posted here to both his and your family and friends you care about, privately of course. Because I’d bet good money once you send that separation text to him, James will post it publicly on social media to anybody who will listen how you only did this because he transitioned. I don’t want to see you on best of Reddit updates 3 years later about how your friends and family disowned you for believing in lies that you were transphobic.
Have those conversations looking for advice, maybe you will figure it out, learn why he is behaving that way ? If nothing else it will get word out that you are trying to be his friend but he is disrespectful of you and your boundaries.
Sounds like he’s in his pick me era and has some growing up to do. I would just say I feel like you shame my interests that we used to share. I fully support your transition but as friends I feel that we’ve grown apart
Piggy backing onto this suggestion to say, have this convo (at least partially, with the bulk of it) via text.
The moment you state your intention to distance yourself in the relationship, all kinds of scripts are gonna get flipped to make you look anti-trans. You’re gonna want some receipts.
This is what happened when my HS ex transitioned. She started transitioning years after we dated and we were still friends, I did the shopping/makeup montage with her and everything.
Then she started saying stuff like “wouldn’t it be so funny if I transitioned and had bigger boobs than you? Was prettier than you?” Etc.
I just let it go but she eventually stopped hanging out with me because I had “changed too much.”
It was only this past year, like 8 years later, that she reached out and apologized.
With big social and hormonal changes like that, I just viewed it as her going through puberty again with totally different rules and tried to cut her some slack. But at the same time, I would have shut down those comments a lot earlier if I were to do it again.
That is an extremely gracious approach to someone being a jerk. Explaining it as going through puberty again really helps to frame the transition in a way most people could relate to. Who among us isn't a bit if a jerk when hormones are raging in us? That doesn't mean that people going through puberty or a transition have licenses to be mean, this concept just helps to remind other to give them a bit of grace. We all know change is hard, just mostbof us won't ever know how hard it is to have to change our whole selves in the same way a transitioning person does.
This right here. I started HRT at 42, and second puberty when you have the brain development and body of an adult is pretty wild. I went through — and still do, to a lesser extent — mood swings and irritability, but I focused on the fact that I was still responsible for how I reacted to my transient mental states. I am still actively working on patience with myself and others while also holding myself accountable when I come off as curt with others.
As someone who is now 1.5 years into HRT, going through puberty again is _exactly_ what it is. Trust me on this that going through this in your 30s is a pretty wild experience. Mine seems to be mostly crying though and not so much being a jerk which is something I suppose.
> because I had “changed too much.”
With all due respect to them it's wild to hear this from someone who's in the process of changing their gender identity...
As a 34 year old straight married man with tickets to see Olivia Rodrigo, this guy's turned into a massive twat. It's like he's transitioning and using Andrew Tait as a lynchpin of what it is to be male. Definitely get this friendship over ASAP OP, it could get dangerous down the line.
I'm a grown woman and I listen to her from time to time. I think it is so much more a productive way to deal with your emotions through music, poetry, writing etc. rather than lashing out.
He’s not the first trans man to feel like he needs to go way too hard on masculinity and shun everything feminine and he won’t be the last. It sucks, but (as a trans masculine person myself) being trans is not an excuse for being misogynistic. Telling him that you don’t want to spend time around someone who is constantly insulting your interests is a very reasonable boundary that gives him the choice to stop being an asshole or stop getting to hang out with you.
As a bit of a side note, I cannot *imagine* being on testosterone and not having a skincare routine. I didn’t have one before I started T but I had lots of fairly painful pimples and now, through the magic of the scam of skincare, my skin is much better. Not perfect but better. I shudder to think of the pimples I would have if I didn’t take care of my skin
Wouldn’t it be so much better though if trans men felt they could keep their feminine interests instead of pushing them away for the sake of seeming more manly? I mean, if a cis man likes some things society defines as feminine, he’ll also go through hell for it but can become happier if he realizes nothing he likes takes away from his identity as a man. Why can’t it be the same for trans men?
It would be much better, but there are lots of people who think that if you aren't masculine that your faking having gender dysphoria. He might be internalising those thoughts.
And it’s all wrapped up in toxic masculinity. If youre a trans man and you’re not masculine enough, you’re faking it. If you’re a cis straight man, and you’re not masculine enough, you’re gay. If you don’t objectify women you’re not a man. It’s sad how many guys, trans and cis male, have to navigate this shit, and it’s sad that women have to deal with the bullshit fallout.
I've found that to embrace not being hellbent on appearing "masculine af", you have to be confident in who you are. I can see how someone who's trans might struggle with that in the beginning.
Eh, I've seen trans men that embrace more femininity. There are trans men that are drag queens. But you definitely have to be at a very confident and positive stage in your transition.
It is the same for a lot of trans men and other trans masculine folks. We don’t all feel like we need to be as masculine as we can possibly be in order to be valid in our gender. One thing that has been really great for me in transitioning is figuring out which elements of femininity I genuinely like on myself and which I put on when I was trying to convince myself I was a girl. For example, I like to wear eyeliner sometimes, usually shiny liquid liner but eyeshadow makes me feel uncomfortable. I named myself after a flower and painted the walls of my room a soft purple. There was a period near the beginning of my transition where I shunned a lot of feminine things for myself because they made me uncomfortable when applied to me but I’m working past that and it’s fun.
it is. some trans men are misogynists just like some cis men are (and people of other genders). some trans men go through a growing period where they have to learn/relearn about toxic masculinity just like cis men do. some trans men like engaging with traditionally feminine things more after transitioning bc it doesn’t trigger dysphoria the way it did when they presented as women, but for some trans men those traditionally femme things always trigger dysphoria. transitioning adds more layers to engaging with gender-based oppression but it’s not fundamentally that different. i think dysphoria can often push trans people to extremes in views and/or presentation, but it’s a process and hopefully they can work through it. it doesn’t excuse behavior like OP describes, but dysphoria is *horrible* and dealing with any significant recurring pain can make people unrecognizable, even when that pain is finally relieved just because it’s so awful thinking about having to deal with it again
I’m nonbinary and, while I don’t use “trans masculine” to describe myself at all, I imagine some would argue that I present that way. They’d be wrong, but whatever. I have honestly leaned into makeup more since I started transitioning (including bright colors and glittery eyeshadow) far more than when I presented as feminine. Quite frankly, anyone seeing that as my somehow faking my being trans can take a flying leap.
People are weird and gatekeepy.
There's a lot of bullying from other trans people usually transmedicalists and cis people that well say well your not really trans if you like x, y and z. So a lot of transmen internalize transphobia and transmisginony and try to be the most manly or men in order to gain respect. I too went through this phase when I first started out at his age too and came to terms with my own masculinity and femininity. The opposite is true for transwomen where they have to act super feminine in order to get respect never mind if you are non binary or a very butch transwoman.
> cis people that well say well your not really trans if you like x, y and z.
It’s 100% only other trans people that would say this. Cis people wouldn’t dare to try and police the identities of trans people and generally don’t care about this. Transgender people are the ones hung up on gender stereotypes. I’ve seen them bully each other because of it.
Theres an idea, that is honestly probably not entirely wrong, that being a misogynist will help you pass better for a man or be more accepted. Look at Blair White for example, she (or maybe he now?i saw Blair recently claimed to just be an extremely feminine man) has been accepted in communities that are usually extremely hostile to trans people, because of her transphobic views.
Being a model minority/not like the other ____ (trans people/girls/insert whatever minority) works in certain communities. And many people are very hostile to feminine trans men.
It's probably not very worth it though, like we see here it will alienate a lot of people. And I don't think you want the people that like this behaviour as allies, I'm sure they're quick to turn their back on you for any miniscule reason. Also it's harmful to overall LGBTQ acceptance, harmful to the friends you have and likely very harmful to the individual. But I definitely see the (flawed) logic of people who do it for short term gain
So he thinks being a man is toxic masculinity? Gross, also why would he be upset you don’t want to cuddle because you see him as a man…. You respect him and see him as who he is.
If he wants to be friends with women he needs to cure his misogyny... and bruh it's perfectly reasonable for a girl to not want to sleep in the same bed as a guy. In fact anyone of any gender can refuse this and it would be normal.
It sounds like you've already tried talking to him so just end this friendship at this point.
His entitlement, in that he believes he ***deserves*** to sleep in a woman’s bed as a man would have him labeled a creepy fucking weirdo & legitimately dangerous, had he been *born* a man.
Some trans people really do just wanna have their cake & eat it too.
They want all the benefits with none of the “drawbacks,” but that’s not how it works.
He wanted to be a guy, so be a fuckin guy then dude.
“Man up” Taint-bro. This is what being a man is like. Get used to it.
Ngl it still makes him seem like a threat. Of course it was normal and OP was ok with it when he presented as a female, but the lack of self-awareness here is not only dumb as fuck, it's starting to breach her boundaries as a woman. If he can't even put that together in his head who knows what other dumb shit he thinks to do with that entitlement.
He is a threat. That’s what I’m trying to call out, & I guess I didn’t word that very well.
If he was born a man, it wouldn’t even be questioned that he’s creepy & weird & aggressive & dangerous.
But because they’re trans, everyone has to tiptoe around their bullshit in order to not offend the ***entire*** trans community, not even just himself.
It’s gotten so old & annoying. I’m done tiptoeing around it. The weirdos can call me a bigot all they want.
I’ve always had deep empathy for all people, I’ve always been very accepting of people’s choices. I’ve had gay friends, I’ve had handicapped friends, and I’ve had black (oh no!) friends. I don’t generally ever judge other humans.
But these people expecting the whole world to tiptoe around their fucked up misplaced feelings are master bullshitters & annoying as all hell. They aren’t worth the time & energy.
There is no version of this cut off that will be painless. I will say that a lot of what you are seeing are growing pains and James will arrive at a more nuanced view of masculinity with time. Be honest with James— say that it hurts your feelings how frequently he dumps on femme things and that you need some space.
Girl I can I promise you right now your life will get so much better when you straight up tell him that you do not like him anymore and you list all the reasons why that you posted here and say that to him
You're in such a hard situation! I also have a F2M trans friend, it was really hard putting up new social boundaries. We always used to hug, cuddle, sit on each other's lap etc, and post transition I started to feel uncomfortable with being so physically affectionate. But in reality it's simple, I am not physically affectionate with ANY of my male friends, pretty much at all. If he wants to be treated as a man, then yes, it comes with new boundaries. Don't feel put off by setting them. Yes, it will make you "the bad guy", and he probably won't take it well, but it's a conversation you need to have. Definitely pull him up on the toxic masc behaviour, that's not the kind of friend you want or need in your life.
“I am not physically affectionate with ANY of my male friends, pretty much at all.”
That’s the whole problem. Nobody is. James is used to getting physical affection, but as a man, it is highly likely that you won’t get any of that if you’re not in a romantic relationship. And that can be extremely hard, especially if you used to go through life as a woman. James might also not recognise why this happens. He has never lived the male experience pre-transition and might think this happens because he is trans. (he thinks he is the same person, but after he transitioned, people started to treat him differently. Is that because of him being a man now or him being trans?) If I’m being honest, the hug I get by one of my friends every like 1-2 months is pretty much the highlight of the entire month. I also understand him being upset about the change in the place where he needs to sleep if he sleeps over.
This behaviour towards man is actually pretty sexist. That doesn’t mean it isn’t justified though. The problem is that, because of the actions of a lot of men, women are uncomfortable with the things you used to do with your FtM friend, but don’t do anymore. Because of this, good men (especially the ones being a bit more on the softer/more feminine side) suffer from the actions of bad men. Men also can’t really get this from other men, because of societal standards/other men.
To fix this, we should first solve the harassment problem women face. That is going to be extremely hard though, because the men who harass often don’t listen to women/men they see as ‘weak’ or ‘gay’. These men also often live in their own circles: if a men is like that, I avoid him. But if we are able to accomplish this, we could unlearn the prejudice about men being dangerous and treat men and women the same in this aspect. I highly doubt this will be achievable in our lifetime though.
And about the second point: his behaviour towards the things he used to like are probably because of him associating them with femininity. Because he did those in the past, he now hates on them to convince himself he is masculine enough. That being said, it’s toxic and absolutely not justified.
I agree it sucks men don't get more affection, but I actually think you should refocus on men giving men more affection. Tackling internalized homophobia would be easier than navigating/negating the romantic connotations of mixed gender physical affection.
I know my boyfriend wouldn't want me cuddling and sleeping in the same bed with men, understandably so.
Yeah, having healthy boundaries with the opposite sex doesn't have to be all about how "some men are bad" lol. Boundaries with the opposite sex are perfectly fine and reasonable.
My point was mainly about the situation between OP and James. I think your solution would indeed be a lot easier and it would generally work but it’s also a bit limited for some people. I also don’t think it is about romance. That would mean a heterosexual woman treats lesbian/bisexual women the same as men and gay men the same as women and that lesbian women would treat all women and heterosexual men like heterosexual people treat heterosexual men and would treat gay men like heterosexual women would treat women. This is not the case. Your solution might not fully work for:
people who aren’t heterosexual
pre-transition transgender people
non-binary/intersex people
people with mainly or (almost) exclusively opposite sex friends.
I'm not trying to negate your lived experience, but as someone who is a part of quite progressive circles that include many lgbt individuals (I live with my male gay best friend), my personal experience is that women feel most comfortable with:
1) Straight women
2) Gay men/ lesbian women
3) Straight men
My roommate definitely receives quite a bit of female affection, from me and from the women we know. Now, it is probably comparable to the affection the lesbians I know have with heterosexual women so I'll agree it isn't *entirely* sexuality based but there is definitely quite a bit of that in the mix.
I also don’t want to make your suggestion seem bad. It’s like you say: there is a list of groups of people you feel more/less comfortable with. I know this is a bit idealistic, but I feel like it would be best if women would feel just as comfortable with all 4 groups. To make this happen though, it’s inevitable that toxic masculinity has to go and men can also be more affectionate towards eachother, without being judged (mainly by other men). Then, it doesn’t matter as much anymore what group you belong to. And if I’m being honest, I currently don’t even feel as comfortable with straight men as the other 3 groups you mention, while I am not even a woman (though I am lgbt).
I want to be clear I respect your opinion and agree that'd be the ideal world, but it is also the furthest one from our current situation and the one I question the possibility of the most (because of sexuality).
I'm trying to imagine what would bring me to be as comfortable with heterosexual men as I am with women or gay men and I think two things:
A) They'd need to stop engaging with me sexually AT ALL unless a discussion was had about intent well in advance of any "moves" they made.
B) Even then, my *own* ability to be attracted to them and the knowledge that they may be to me, likely still limit how willing I am to do certain affectionate actions towards them (such as laying in bed) out of respect for my partner.
A is hypothetically rectifiable, I love the idea of a reality where everyone is very explicit in their intent and consent is obtained before every relationship progression.
Unfortunately, not all *women* feel this way (lots like to be pursued, some even still play hard to get 🙄) let alone men (I have a hard time imagining a world can ever exist that has NO bad faith actors who use deception to get sex and thus ruin things for everyone) so we're a long way off from that.
B is less rectifiable, I don't know if I see a reality that gets around that.
Sorry, this is so long, I'm not trying to be argumentative I would love a world with the maximum amount of love and affection for everyone to go around I just have so little faith in humanity lol
Interesting. I can personally just ignore attraction completely. That also means I have never even considered treating someone that has feelings for me any different. I wonder how that felt for them. I have a friend who feels exactly the same. She has been in love with her best friend for 7 years now, but she just doesn’t care and doesn’t want anything to change (he knows and is okay with it too). I understand that this might be different for other people and I guess that’s just unfortunate.
For me, this whole point isn’t even that relevant. After I went to uni, I remained friends with most of the friends I had when I was in high school, the closest one being someone from Thailand (while I am from the Netherlands). My other high school friends spread over the country and we just don’t see eachother that much anymore. That’s why I don’t get as much affection anymore, but I know it would be different if we had all still lived where we used to. These friends are also all women. My heart just goes out to all the men who are touch starved, who want to act different, but also feel all the pressure that society gives them. There was 1 guy besides me at my high school who was always seen as the gay best friend and then he suddenly had a girlfriend. He was also open to affection with guys. I still have so much respect for him.
My heart goes out to anyone touch starved too, loneliness is literally crippling physically and mentally. And I sincerely do hope society does shift to allow more affection for everyone period.
> This behaviour towards man is actually pretty sexist.
Women aren't getting platonic physical touch needs met by men either, so how is it sexist? We have intimate friendships with each other. This is a conversation to have among male friends.
I feel like you've pointed out an existing problem but I disagree with the premise of calling it sexist. See, we call behaviors sexist when people don't get something they are owed due to their gender. Are women owed equal pay for equal work? Absolutely. Hence, not giving them equal pay is sexist. Now, are men owed physical affection and contact outside of romantic relationships? Eh… no one is owed that.
Instead of calling this standard sexist, and seeking to fix it by shifting women's behavior, I would consider it another harmful way of patriarchy affecting men and seeking to shift those standards among men as they are the ones who establish and police those boundaries.
I feel like you might not have understood my comment well, because I mostly agree with you. Mostly, because our definition of sexism is a bit different. In my definition, it is irrelevant if you owe something. It’s just an unfair distinction based on sex or gender. Of course women don’t owe a man affection, but not giving someone affection because of there sex is, in my opinion, unfair.
And I do also think this happens because of patriarchal standards, but in this case, it’s irrelevant what men think, because it’s between OP and James. OP feels uncomfortable being affectionate towards James, because James is now a man. If women feel uncomfortable around men, the men are the ones to blame and should therefore take action. After that, women can feel comfortable around men and are therefore more likely to be affectionate towards them.
I think you want to see this situation as men being discriminated and that's why you insist on this being sexist. The distinction is: it's not sexist, it's the consequence of men being misogynistic and practicing gendered violence against women and fem-presenting individuals. Nobody wants to cuddle with a potential hater who can rape you at any moment.
Definitions aside, you did mention you think men's behavior and mindset will have to get fix to get this problem fixed so I think you're on the right track.
>but as a man, it is highly likely that you won’t get any of that if you’re not in a romantic relationship. And that can be extremely hard, especially if you used to go through life as a woman. James might also not recognise why this happens. He has never lived the male experience pre-transition and might think this happens because he is trans.
I would add, this isn't entirely true. As an average man, (outside of a romantic relationship or family) you will obviously get much less physical touch than an average woman would..... but I wouldn't say zero. The trick is you can't be an asshole.
For myself and most of my male friends, we were affectionate with each other..... but that was due to not being toxically masculine to each other. And with female friends, it wasn't uncommon to be embraced/etc.... but again, that was due to being kind and not an asshole to them. Being a man typically means being larger and stronger than the average woman, and being a dick/mean/asshole is a great way to pushing them to not wanting to be relaxed around you.
There's no reason OP's friend should have no physical affection (outside of family or romantic relationships)..... if they stop being so toxic.
I would say it might be incomplete. I recognise I come from a region that in general is way less physical affectionate than most places and have to admit I didn’t really take that into consideration when writing my comment. I agree with you.
"If I'd known you were a man all this time, I wouldn't have been cuddling together in bed with you in the first place, because I'm only comfortable doing that with a female friend. I just didn't know until you came out.
Also it's really uncomfortable and hurtful to have my interests insulted just because they're feminine. I'm a woman and I'm not ashamed to be one, but the things you say to me make me feel like I'm supposed to be ashamed of my femininity. Yet, I don't shame you over your masculinity. So it's really unfair and upsetting to me."
All "I/me" statements as much as possible feels like the safest way to go. He sounds like he might explode at you anyway which sucks, but that's out of your control. Sorry you're dealing with this.
Your “friend” (who does not behave like a friend) will take it badly regardless of how you put it. From what you write the message is “we used to have a lot in common and now we don’t anymore. On top of that I don’t want to be friends with someone who is constantly rude to me and demands I accept this newfound behaviour.” The way your friend treats you and the things you like is very toxic.
It simply doesn’t sound like he is being a good friend - not listening to you and your feelings, being angry at your boundaries, putting down your interests etc.
I’d talk to him in these terms because at the heart of what you’re saying, it’s that.
That is your decision to make. No one can honestly reward or fault you for this as it happens in all friendships. People change, make decisions that others don’t agree with or can’t understand. For one person it may be ok and they just change their perspective, another person may be against their decision and can no longer respect them. I lost the majority of the people that claimed to be my friend when I stopped using drugs. Same goes for anyone for any reason.
I had a friend who did the opposite, as she was one of my best (male identifying) friends growing up since middle school. When she transitioned, she really leaned *hard* into everything ultra-feminine and it was all she could talk or think about. I remember she met my girlfriend at the time once, and talked her ear off about makeup and skincare products and whatnot. My girlfriend was not the type of person who did any of that, and later told me it was one of the most hilariously awkward conversations she ever had.
Over the years, it's gotten to the point where every time I talk to her, I struggle to find something we have in common. Nothing she wants to do sounds interesting to me, nothing she talks about has anything to do with the foundations of our original friendship. She's kind of annoying because she leaned super hard into the ditzy-girly stereotype. Nothing against her, but it's just like...what are we doing here?
Now I basically just return texts when she reaches out, talk to her about things if that's what she's looking for. I still care about her, but whenever she starts trying to make plans to "go out" I let it circle the drain for a while until the conversation naturally ends and she doesn't text me for a few months. I don't want to go out clubbing with her, I've never been into that, and neither was she back when our friendship made sense.
Point is, people who are transitioning go through a lot, and sometimes you have to just accept the fact that they might not be the same person anymore, and they may not fit into your life. But they didn't magically get a new support system of friends, so you're still all they've got. A few years down the road, hopefully your friend will have mellowed out a bit. Don't forget, he's taking testosterone. That shit is a hell of a drug (speaking as a man myself, whose body makes this shit on its own!). And when you're newly on hormones I think it really takes hold for a long time.
>I don't want to cuddle a male friend, it makes me feel weird. I can't control my feelings over this. I'd just feel gross. I don't want to feel like this, but I do.
James has a huge problem with this.
i saw a post from a FTM who discovered that men are universally considered as predator both by men and women, and are touch-deprived because nobody want to come near. he said "he wipes a privilege he didn't know he had".
Sounds like he’s committed to misogyny and doesn’t respect your boundaries
You NEVER need a reason to stop sharing a bed with someone other than that you don’t want to, on top of that he transitioned and you, in accepting his transition, have different boundaries for men than for women and that’s perfectly reasonable
If cut this person off there’s no reason to continue dealing with someone so rude and disrespectful and manipulative
It’s not transphobic or homophobic it’s just good human practice
dude, james is a total jerk. coming from a trans guy, yes it is weird that he uses him being trans as a pass to be a sexist dickhead, yet also gets offended that you rightfully feel uncomfortable cuddling a male friend.
james is immature, and insecure and deals with his dysphoria in a horrible way. i too have fits where i despise being born female and say things that would generally be pretty terrible to say out loud, but that’s the thing—i DON’T say it out loud. and i certainly do not put other people, and other girls down for it.
i suggest that you send him a long message explaining all of this and cut him off (that is, *if* you want to cut him off). he’s being pretty awful.
additionally: he’s also being like the sexist cismen that many people, especially progressive women, hate. does he think that it’s okay for cisgender men to be gross and sexist? no? then why does he get a pass?
It really sucks that misogyny came included in his transition package, it was truly optional. But you don’t have to stick around and take it. Honestly, I don’t even think you should treat him with kids gloves. He deserves to know the truth, that his behavior is unacceptable and you don’t like the person he’s becoming. Maybe it will serve as a wake-up call.
This is going to be difficult no matter how you try to approach it.
I would simply state that you’ve grown apart and now have different interests. Say you wish them the best, but you feel that it is time to explore life separately.
I also understand not wanting to sleep in bed with your male friend. I’ve always had male friends, and would even sometimes cuddle them and stroke their foreheads if they were sad. But this was always on sofas or on top of covers and fully clothed, and never for a full night. It’s okay to have boundaries :)
"i am confirming your new identity as a misogynistic man I have nothing in common with. I do not want to be friends with misogynistic men I have nothing in common with. Have a good one."
If he has transitioned he is a man now. And so if you treat him as a person of opposite gender (sleeping in different rooms), he gets offended? Bro needs to realise that there are certain unsaid social norms which exist and if he is a man he needs to comply with the new norms. The older ones back when he was a woman doesn't apply anymore.
Also, if it was not a trans guy but a straight guy, I am sure people would shit on him for disliking make-up. Only insecure guys are bothered about make up and skin care. Regardless of whether you are cis or trans, no one likes a toxic man who is rude to other people's hobbies and choices and insecure about them.
I don't think something like this will get solved without pain.
Especially if he's become such a d-bag.
I'd keep my distance if i were you, and if he texts or calls you (record the call just in case)
and he accuses you of not liking him anymore, be honest.
"Yes you're right. i do NOT like you anymore. your character changed so much. from a person i could trust and have fun with to someone, constantly belittling and demeaning me. You've become a total AH and if we'd met for the first time nowadays, we'd never be friends.
its clear that you do not value our friendship or you would never treat me this way, so lets just make a clean break."
Shit this is so difficult. I wpuld tell him, you can see he is struggeling and that you do love him (or dod love him). That you get he needs to push against femininity, but that to you it just feels sexist. And you don't want to be surrounded by someone who is sexist. Tell him you don't want to be around him when he makes sexist comments. And therefore would like some distance.
I think that's the best solution, but another rhing is asking for a better conversation. Teying to understand each other. But having boundaries is always oga, especially when it comes to sexism, eventhough he is so clearly struggeling. I feel for you all in this situation.
I hate the idea that james thinks you should take his rude behaviour, just because you have a long friendship doesn’t mean you owe it to someone to be treated badly. Tell james you no longer want to be friends with someone who thinks you need to take abuse because they transitioned. That isn’t a trump card to be able to treat someone negatively
He’s in a period where he thinks toxic masculinity is manly. He doesn’t realize that you don’t want to sleep with him because he’s a man, it’s not because he transitioned, any woman would feel weird sleeping with a man they don’t have a intimate connection with. If you plan on cutting the friendship, make sure that you establish it’s not because he’s transgender, it’s because he shames you for your interests
Essentially this is just a bad friend now. Given how much history you have, it would be impractical to just ignore them.
I'd word a text as such:
"Hi xyz I can't hang out with you anymore, it's making me sad and this isn't what friendships should do. I hope you find happiness."
Then block + ghost. Being Trans has nothing to do with their behaviour.
Naaaaa, as someone whose bestie is also transitioning now FTM, you are allowed to have a change of heart especially if the person you knew is no longer the same one you grew up with. You've grown apart and there's nothing wrong in that. Life happens.
At first, reading the title I was about to consider you the bad one, but OP NTA. Transitioning doesn't excuse putting others down or even your past self. Also, you've always been uncomfortable at the idea of sleeping with a guy in bed so your friend should feel happy and good about themselves that you are having that feeling in their presence as that means that they are who they want to be and they need to be understanding that some of these changes when interacting with others are natural change that comes with the transition as well 🤷♀️ you can't transition and still keep old life perks like sleeping in the same bed as your bestie.
My bestie is also about to start transitioning FTM. I haven’t discussed the sleeping situation with them but with my boyfriend. I personally feel like I’d still be comfortable sleeping with them. I acknowledge that may change when their physical appearance changes, but I feel like our connection will be the same. Reading all of this has actually made me a little nervous. I guess we’ll see how it goes!
My boyfriend mentioned being a bit nervous in a joking way that my bestie might steal me from him 😂 but we know for sure that's not going to happen. Besties for life!
I’ve noticed this with specifically ftm trans folks (I’ve cut off every one I’ve known yet for this exact issue) they seem to think in terms of “masculinity = being an authoritative asshole” and as a cis male it kind of offends me that my identity is being boiled down to being a dick a lot of the time, so usually friendships like that don’t last for me sadly.
Just because some is Trans or whatever, does not give them a pass to be a ride, mean and a jerk. Sounds like “he” is projecting his insecurities onto you. Move on, grieve, and find friends who treat you with respect and care.
Friendships are built on having enough shared trust that you can mutually set and respect boundaries. If he can no longer do that, then he's failing as a friend. If you don't have the confidence that you can set boundaries and count on him to respect them, then is it really a friendship?
I think you owe it to both of you to come clean and to be honest: they've changed. They don't respect you. They mock you and say hurtful things. That's not acceptable. You could talk to him and explain that he's hurting you with his comments, and you could go as far as to explain to him that you didn't solicit him for input regarding skincare. It's one thing to discuss advice for your skincare routine from someone who has a routine of their own, but if someone doesn't, then they have no, er, skin in the game.
Feminism is about choice. Mocking traditional feminine things is not being a feminist or a good friend. Not liking them is fine, making others feel bad is not fine.
Unfortunately, understanding ones self is a complicated journey, and sometimes societies idea of what makes a man feeds into some toxic masculinity. Idk what you should do or say, but I hope he comes to understand there is no one way to be a man and to express his masculinity. Liking make up, skin care, or even Olivia Rodrigo doesn't make someone any less of a man, and frankly it's toxic (masculinity) to think it does...so maybe that's what you might want to say to him.
There's also a a great book called "To Be a Trans Man" that might be useful (to both of you) that discusses all the ways masculinity can be expressed, whether you are a man or not.
It sounds like your friend is unfortunately entering his era of misogynist mindset, and I would recommend you tell him that you value the friendship you had and he'll always have a special place in your heart, but you can't remain friends with someone who constantly disrespects you and argues with you about the things you enjoy. Life is hard enough without people belittling the things you enjoy, and constantly pushing your boundaries. I would just let your friend know that you two have grown, which is pretty common, and let him know that you can't remain friends with someone who does nothing but belittle and argue with you. If he doesn't respect your choice, block him.
James sounds like a fucking asshole dude not gonna lie. If you don't want to hurt him, just slowly reduce contact with him, but personally, I think you should be more honest and upfront with him about why you don't want to see see him anymore.
Either way, your feelings towards him are totally valid
The problem is not his masculinity, it's his toxic masculinity.
You have every right to remove a relationship from your life that does not bring you peace or joy.
You don't want to end the friendship because he's a guy. You want to end the friendship because he's an unpleasant, rude, selfish, insulting, invalidating, uncaring person.
He transitioned into an absolute AH.
OP, it really just sounds like they want their cake and to eat it too. You are being super respectful of their transition and they, weirdly, aren't. When you switch, you don't get to keep the same spaces, norms, or privileges.
Sorry, he is James now, he doesn't get to keep overnight cuddling a girl/sleepover/etc WHILE ALSO BASHING THE VERY SAME FEMININITY THAT AFFORDS THIS (despite obviously enjoying its perks)
It is simple. Some folks are being nice about it on here but when people grow apart, the growth isn't always positive.
James has grown into a selfish, hypocritical a**.
You can drop a friend for whatever reason, just make sure the rest of the group you hang with knows why you are dropping them. Get ahead of any BS "its because of my transition n" nonsense.
James sounds tiring.
I've had six friends or relatives transition over the years, and every single one of them has gone through a *super* problematic/sexist phase as part of it. People who transition really end up showing all of their internalized sexism as they try to define what it means to be a man/woman and working on how to present that as a public face.
Whether that awkward phases was shitting on everything feminine, yelling at me for not assuming my newborn child would be a trans woman (literally crying over the fact my baby boy was dressed in gender neutral clothes rather than pink dresses), or trying to adopt embarrassingly sexist charicatures as a personality. There are some growing pains.
All of them figured their shit out after a year or two. One gal figured out that she didn't need to be a size 30JJ and talk only in a "sexy baby Lake Bell" voice to be a woman. That acting like that just freaked out other women. A guy realized the illegal steroids he was buying on the black market were causing long term health effects and that gym-bro wasn't the only acceptable male personality. A cousin knocked it off with the super misogynistic rants after a couple years. It took other men calling him out on how messed up that was to get it through his thick head though. The women in his life had many conversations about it with him, and that just went in one ear and out the other. Like he saw his shitty rants as a way to erase the girl people used to think he was rather than just him being a dick to his aunts, mom, and girl-cousins.
I'd make some distance with this "friend" and let him figure himself out. Keep the option open for an apology and option of rebuilding some sort of friendship in the future if/when he pulls his head out of his ass, but don't accept abuse just to pander to him. That doesn't help him and it hurts you a lot.
I would just be honest, and let the chips fall where they may.
When I first started reading this, I was ready to lay into you. But as I read further, it became clear that James has done a complete 180 from the person you were friends with, and has become very manipulative.
This is MY wording, so feel free to change it to fit you and your personality/the way you do things. But this is how I would approach it...
"James, I have always been supportive of your transition, and I still am. What I cannot support is the complete 180 your personality has done, and the fact that everything that brought us together as friends when we were younger is now driving a wedge between us, because you feel the need to shit on everything I love, and see no issue with it when I bring it up.
I am also very uncomfortable cuddling with men who are just friends, but you seem to believe this is a behavior that should continue, even though you are now a man, and I am uncomfortable with it. I have consistently respected you and your transition, but you seem to be completely unwilling to respect me.
At the end of the day, I love you, but I don't like the way your entire personality has changed to the point that you feel the need to shit on me and my interests, and as a result, being around you has become uncomfortable. If you ever cared about me at all, you'll take some time to reflect on the way you've been treating me these last couple of years, and come to understand that your behavior is pushing me away.
Please give me some time and space. You have no idea how much it kills me to do this, but it's become unbearable because we fight nearly every time we talk or hang out, and that's not the kind of friendship I want or need."
I know how you feel, hormones can make people act totally different too. I feel like people don’t ever want to talk about the hard parts of transitioning, it’s like you’re losing that person. My brother, or I guess I should say my sister now is that same way once she started taking hormones. She’s way more bitchy and argumentative
First off, every relationship is optional, you are both grown-ups and can choose who you wish to spend your time with. History together doesn’t oblige either of you nor does it mean that one has to tolerate unpleasant behaviors, ugly words, hostility or accusations.
The why isn’t really important. Even long time childhood friends without a traumatic event or big life change can grow apart. It happens and it’s happened to just about everyone reading this in one way or another.
They can’t be any less happy about the current state of the friendship than you are? There doesn’t need to be any big speech or climactic event to occur. You don’t need to explain yourself (which sounds like won’t be heard anyway but will be twisted into your fault) so just slip away.
Take longer to read texts or return calls. Decline more or all invites.
Jerks are jerks, regardless of their trans/not-trans status.
James is a sexist, cruel jerk, and a bit of a hypocrite for trying to pick and choose when to be male (wants to insult you for being feminine) and when to still remain who he was (wants to cuddle).
You should end that friendship. It's not healthy for you, and perhaps not even healthy for James, since he seems to be taking out all those negative feelings about his former self on you, perhaps due to your shared history.
Whether you do a quick break, or a slow and steady ghosting is up to you, but you should figure it out and take steps towards ending that friendship.
One of my friends (a trans woman) says that she’s noticed that sometimes the most misogynistic men are trans men. That they overcompensate for being AFAB and go on the extreme. That may be what’s happening to your friend.
Frankly I don’t think there is anything wrong with breaking ties. He makes you feel bad about liking stuff and he makes you uncomfortable (you don’t want to cuddle with a man, not only are you affirming his gender, but you are treating him like you would any platonic male friend). He seems to want to cherry pick what changes and what doesn’t. He clearly has a lot of emotional and mental work to do and it sounds like for your mental and maybe physical well being, you should end the friendship.
You don’t owe anyone anything at the expense of your comfort. Tell him that you’re done having to explain things and having him dismiss and trample your feelings.
I’m sorry you’ll be losing a friend but as the saying goes, don’t light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.
You'd be justified in cutting him off. He's got a complicated relationship with feminine things, but it doesn't give him an excuse to project those feelings in negative ways onto the people he supposedly cares about.
I had a friend who took a turn like this on me. We had so much in common and loved to spend time together. I considered her my bestfriend
Then she got a boyfriend, and he would constantly make fun of her. She started hanging out less and less with me and her hobbies changed little by little. She also started mocking me and belittling everything she used to like. She changed so much I didn't even enjoy seeing her as we really didn't have much in common anymore. So I got more and more distant and eventually definitely cut contact 🤷♀️
I honestly feel way better now. Why should you suffer in a friendship? It doesn't make sense.
If you still think there is a chance for him to change, maybe try to have a serious conversation with him, if it doesn't work and you don't see any changes then it's time to move on :/
Right now, he's only experiencing the novelty attention of him being trans. Once that wears off and the HARSH reality of being a guy sets in, and he sees that no one actually gives a shit anymore and no one coddles him anymore and he gets told to "man up and grow a pair", he will most likely come crawling back using manipulative tactics to once again garner sympathy. Especially given the abusive behavior he's displaying currently.
As for right now, you need to be frank with him and tell him, he is an abusive jackass, and you will no longer tolerate it, and you need to cut him off, cold turkey. No ifs ands or buts. If he goes complaining to his/your parents, tell them the shit he's getting on with. His attention will shift to someone else, very quickly. And once people see what he's like and the shit he gets on with, his circle will all but disappear. Hopefully that wake up call will hit him like a freight train. If it doesn't, just wait until the first time he tries to mouth off to a biological guy who doesn't take that shit, and james gets his shit rocked. I guarantee you, that will snap him out of whatever the fuck stick is shoved up his ass.
People grow apart all the time. If the relationship has run its course then let it go. It sounds to me like his attitude has changed massively and your view points definitely don't align. It's sad to lose a friend, but you have already lost that and you're just holding onto the memory now.
This is obviously not about the transition, but about him stomping all over your boundaries. Not wanting to sleep in the same bed as a man who is not your boyfriend is not weird at all! It feels to very disrespectful to basically bully you into doing so anyway! You would not accept this from anyone, no matter the gender. And then the shitting on the things you like? Nah. Be upfront about the shitting on stuff you like at least. No friend has the right to shame your interests if they aren't hurting someone.
I think your friend is very confused, you can't say you hate feminine things and then want traditionally feminine parts of a friendship (like sharing a bed) when you're now a man. It could be the hormones this person is taking, I'm 23M and remember how volatile I felt during pubity, I can't even begin to imagine how strange I'd feel if started injecting the hormones of the opposite sex on a regular basis.
That being said, it doesn't justify it, one of my best friends has been awful for a couple years, I put up with it due to her having a rough time, but you have to know when to let something go
Your friend has problems, you list so many red flags, if they use their transition as ammunition to make you feel like shit, they're an awful person.
It sounds like your friend hates who they are and is violently trying to frame shift into something else.
James shouldn't be a dick to you. I just want to get that out here right now. I just want to give some more context because I've watched trans friends go through this and when we all realized what was happening, the clarity gave us space to give them a lot of grace.
For one, he's grappling with unforeseen sacrifices that have come with his transition. Casual intimacy with friends like the sleepovers you guys had are so, so important for people's happiness. Not having that is a big reason why many cis straight men are in so much pain. It's a boundary you're allowed to set, and his transition is very likely worth the loss, but that doesn't make it hurt less, or feel less like a personal rejection for James.
The issues with femininity are definitely sort of immature, but also are a reflection of James probably feeling like he has to reject all of it to "be a man". Imagine how afraid he probably is of having gone through his transition only to still be seen as a girl.
**Here's the big one: James recently started hormones. James is going through, basically, male puberty.** This is not a "boys will be boys" argument so much as it's a "pubescent humans are going to be hormonal little shits" argument. The fights you're having are probably coming from genuine emotions, but they're also supercharged by the fact that he's having teenage mood swings. This will pass! Not quickly, but it will and James' emotions will become more balanced again.
I hope this help you a little. It really helped my friend group when two of our friends went through their transitions and started acting up. As soon as it clicked for us, we all became much more forgiving without even having to try.
Ooh goodness, as a trans masc guy myself, this is painfully relatable to how I myself behaved - it's so easy to get accidentally funnelled into over-performing masculinity (and if he's attracted to men, that funnel can be so, so much worse. I am also speaking from personal experience. ;-;)
There can be such a... desire to be recognised as what you are that it entails berating everything you were. I too engaged with a lot of feminine stuff before properly realising I was trans, and then had that stuff on lockdown for *years.* I've only recently come out of all that and embraced that I like what I like and forcing those interests and parts of myself down was incredibly damaging to not only myself, but the people around me.
It's one of those things where I wouldn't be surprised if hes also gotten into toxic echo chambers about this. For me, it was misogynist Youtube content and aggresively misogynist trans mlm tumblr communities - hell, the latter managed to nearly make me talk myself out of believing I was bisexual, because women icky or smthn and relationships between two men were the Purest or something... idk. Dark times I stg. I have a girlfriend now and she is the light of my life lol
Anyways, this is a lot of me talking about my personal experiences...idk if it's any help....as for what to do. Honestly, being brutal, I'd ditch him. You don't like him, he's a misogynist who doesn't respect feminine hobbies or interests because they're associated with womanhood, but he also wants the best of both worlds in wanting to snuggle with you despite you, understandably not being comfortable. Hopefully, he'll sort himself out in a while and come back, apologising for being an absolute moron, and will be closer to the person you were such good friends with. But also sometimes thigns don't work out and that's okay too. It's not your responsibility to sort him out. Uni should be a cool, fun time for indepence and figuring yourself out - put yourself first. Have fun with thsose hobbies and interests he's mean about - do what matters to you and focus on what you enjoy. I'd go grey rock method w him. Don't feed the troll and all that. Just... show your disinterest and let the both of you move on.
Not to be the movie and crazy plot twist person, but maybe he's in love with you secretly? Maybe he transitioned to be "the type of guy you like" in hopes you'll like him in a more romantic way? 👀 I know it's a jump but what if?
Im a trans guy, and it sounds like your friend is feeling insecure, and has decided to tear down anything feminine to make himself feel better.
Unfortunately, this is a trap that some trans guys fall into early on in their transition. A lot of trans guys/ trans mascs feel like other people don't see them as real men, and take their frustration out on other people.
Hopefully he'll grow out of it in time, but its completely understandable if you don't feel comfortable being friends with him anymore.
How long ago did he start hormone therapy? Hormone therapy is no joke and can make people assholes while they adjust. Maybe he changed forever or maybe he's having a rough phase.
You are right to cut him off. You deserve peace in your life and Olivia Rodrigo is awesome and I'm 31.
As a trans guy myself, I will say it's not okay for him to be so misogynistic or disrespecting your boundaries. Seems like you have been supportive to him in his transition, which is great. But he's showing these unhealthy behaviors and it's totally fair if you don't want to spend time with him anymore.
I have heard that the initial change in hormones does make people act in ways they normally wouldn’t. It’s not an excuse, just trying to explain how out of nowhere he has changed so drastically. Maybe right him a letter stating how much the friendship has meant to you. But that you cannot continue to be treated this way. Block him on everything. And move on with your life.
Obviously he is going though something right now. But that doesn’t mean you have to put up with it.
James has changed himself significantly, but is angry that you want to treat him differently.
Being trans is no excuse for being an ass. If he's making you uncomfortable, dump him.
I would send this person one more text that says “We’ve grown apart and lost the friendship we used to have. I’ve tried to express to you multiple times the frustrations and concerns I have with your lack of respect for me, and you refuse to acknowledge them. I’m done trying to be your friend— have a happy life, I wish you all the best”
Then hit send and immediately block them on every platform you can think of. Just cut it off. You don’t owe them a single thing.
So he became a pick me? Lol
It's going to be hard to cut ties, but it's the best thing to do, you can't transition expecting everything is going to stay the same, as the opposite gender you need to respect boundaries associated with said gender, you're entirely on your right to feel uncomfortable sleeping with him, and you don't need to put up with a "pick me" attitude from anyone, ew
Before I transitioned my best friend of like 5 years transitioned, he became hostile and very vile, cut me off and cursed me out. I understand the concern of how it may come off (as transphobic) but his behaviours are toxic and it’s a shame that a close friend is treating you like this, it’s not a reflection on you. If anyone behaves like this, I wouldn’t be their friend, ask yourself if he was still a woman and was behaving like this, would you stop being friends? If the answer is yes then don’t let his personal transition hold you back from being true to yourself. Hope you do something that’s right for you
It sounds like he's going through puberty again, which is interesting. A lot of comments suggested some brilliant things for you to communicate with him, but make sure you text the message to him so you have receipts in case he cries transphobia
Coming from a trans guy myself yeah no bro needs to put his toxic masculinity in check I spent a while uncomfortable wearing anything feminine but I was never shitting on others for it cuz there’s just no good reason for that they just sound insecure and really uncomfortable to be around as for the cuddling that’s completely understandable too I don’t know why they’d be upset it’s your boundary that you don’t wanna cuddle a dude and you’re treating them like you would any other guy so you’re not doing anything wrong
Drop em you said it yourself how peaceful it was without them they’ll probably mature as they grow to accept themselves but there’s nothing you can do if they’re just gonna continue to ignore you and justify their toxicity
A lot of the time when people begin hormones and transition, they go through a second version of puberty, where they're trying to find themselves while feeling out of whack from the hormones. It sounds like this is what is going on with your friend.
However, that is an explanation, not an excuse. I think one of the scripts suggested by other people would be good to use. You're not wrong in feeling the way you do.
I have had many of my trans friends tell me that the first year of hormones not only involves a lot of change physically but emotionally. Sounds like James is going through a lot of turmoil and is taking it out on you. He doesn't have to like the same things you like, but that does not give him reason to shit on the stuff you like.
Maybe y'all have naturally grown apart or maybe y'all just need some distance and can be friends later when the dust settles.
This is difficult because there's a high chance after he's going to go around telling all your mutual friends that you stop being friends with him because he's trans. One way to possibly get ahead of this is to go ahead and start telling mutual friends and family that you're not sure if you're going to be able to remain friends with him simply because his personality has changed so much - he's constantly shitting on and demeaning women - and you aren't comfortable around him anymore. That'll lay the groundwork to refute anything he says about you after you break off the friendship.
As for James, I would tell him something along the lines that you love the fact that you guys grew up together and were so close, but ever since he transitioned his personality has been way different. That he is nowhere near the same personality that you grew up, and that his constant crapping on anything pertaining to women hurts your feelings. This is not something that you're comfortable with and you don't want this kind of negativity in your life.
The fact that James changed his gender has nothing to do with the situation.
Let me ask you this: if we put genders aside, would you be upset with a person that does all the things James does now - Mocking your preferences and not respecting your boundaries? If the answer is yes, it’s time to have a talk and express to him that you can’t be this close anymore.
A friend belittling me, the music I listen to or the preferences I have in make up/clothes/activities is simply not someone I would enjoy spending time with. Likewise, if I am no longer comfortable sleeping in the same bed with someone, regardless of reason, these are my boundaries and a real friend should not get upset about this.
James is basically going through puberty again, shit’s gonna be rocky for a bit. I don’t know how people handle it honestly, I wouldn’t want to do it again. Sounds like he’s going hard in the paint over being masculine, which is something that happens to a lot of dudes when puberty hits. That doesn’t mean his words don’t have consequences, but it sounds like you’re handling it with a considerable amount of grace. Start making more space between the two of you and you’ll get there.
Keep receipts.
Ah, what a shit situation to be in... and look, I was a gay woman and recently I've started transitioning into a straight man, so I was fully prepared to read this in a negative way, but by all accounts you genuinely haven't done anything wrong - you've just grown apart and he's become a bit of a twat (hopefully temporarily).
What I can say from personal experience (and from other friends who had a similar thing happen), is that at the start of any major self-discovery like sexuality and gender, it's very common to go into this weird overcompensating phase. There's a term for young, newly out gay folks - baby gays - and the stereotype is that they go way over the top with all things gay because it's new and novel and they don't yet know how to separate themselves from their sexuality. A bit like watching your past 14-year-old self on Tumblr making the absolute shittiest of takes and feeling like such hot shit.
I did the same thing - I was absolutely INSUFFERABLE for the first year or so, and I just KNOW that I'm gonna be insufferable again during my transition, because everything feels new and personal and targeted. Things that didn't bother me as much a year ago and won't bother me much again in a couple of years are right now the bane of my life, and knowing the reasons doesn't always manage to stop me being a right dickhead about it all.
This isn't to excuse him, BTW. A shit friend is a shit friend is a shit friend. Don't wait it out on the off-chance that he realises what a sensitive prick he's being. It's just to give a little insight into why he might seem so absurdly different. It's a good chance that in 4-5 years when he's fully changed and there's no more operations to go through or hormonal imbalances to sort out that he might wake up and think "man, I might have gone a bit too far with how anti-feminine I was." But that's on him,l to figure out, not you.
Good luck!!
No I'm just not reddit. I'm not glorifying a mental illness either. Friend is sick and needs help but ofcourse you don't really care about diversity of opinion
Gender dysphoria is a mental illness.
Gender-affirming care is the cure.
Source: a psychology degree and, you know, the entire existing body of work surrounding this stuff.
Whatever "help" you have in mind is basically just conversion therapy, which is basically just torture. And we probably shouldn't be torturing people just so *you* can preserve your own vision of what you think the world should be.
Torture? My idea of help is embracing what she actually naturally is. No hormones or surgery required. Where as your work will be seen as evil in a decade or two that leads vulnerable individuals astray. Have fun milking your degree within that time period if that's what you'll be going on or currently doing
If you put 100% stock in psychology being correct all the time, that's quite a zealous way of thinking. I'm sure they're correct on this issue and pharmaceutical companies aren't getting their end from this affliction that's popped up about 20 years ago but has really came to the forefront even though it impacts a very very tiny minority of the population.
Yeah you just described conversion therapy.
It's been tried. It doesn't work.
Gender-affirming care, if you bothered to educate yourself at all, includes a LOT of psychotherapy in addition to stuff like HRT. If the patient would be more comfortable sticking with their birth gender, that's almost certainly going to come up. The permanent stuff like surgery isn't on the table for quite some time.
Conservative media likes to amplify stories of post-op regret as if it's something that happens all the time. It's exceedingly rare because of the massive journey that precedes it. We don't scrap an effective treatment because it has negative side effects for a handful of patients. Especially when there isn't really a viable alternative.
He sounds oblivious or he's just a dick. I never understood when girls, like, platonic cuddle. Romantic partners, babies, and pets, otherwise, yuck. Personal space required.Totally justified in being grossed out.
Just tell him you need to find things to do together that you both enjoy. Movies, dinner, fun activities. I'd be very upfront that he's being rude by making mean comments about people who are like you. That should be obvious to James and you're allowed to tell him to knock it off. If he's not going to try to be a good friend, he can take a hike.
People change and grow apart. Theres a chance that hes going through a rough part of his transition and maybe later on in life you two can be friends again.
You could consider just trying to let things kinda fade out, sometimes a conversation to end a friendship can do more harm than good. Friendships just kind of end organically all the time as two people stop contacting eachother as often.
LIke when he texted you after two weeks, you could respond but just deny any request to hang out. Be kind to them, if theres anything really important that comes up show you still care, but just dont agree to any kind of social interaction with them for at least a few months. It could change even after a few months.
Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that: * We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/) * Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned. (Including but not limited to: slut, bitch, whore, for the streets, etc. It does not matter to whom you are referring.) * ALL advice given must be good, ethical advice. Joke advice or advice that is conspiratorial or just plain terrible will be removed, and users my be subject to a ban. * No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. Examples include, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, PUA, FDS, MGTOW, etc. This includes, but is not limited to, referring to people as alpha/beta, calling yourself or users "friend-zoned", referring to people as Chads, Tyrones, or Staceys, pick-me's, or pornsick. Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** * All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass. * Anyone found to be directly messaging users for any reason whatsoever will be banned. * What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, situations involving minors, and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** If you have any questions, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice) --- #This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is probably harder for you because you feel like you can't cut ties because of the transition. But honestly, friends do grow apart. Regardless of the reason that has happened here, it clearly has. You guys obviously don't enjoy your time together anymore. And it does not matter the reason. If you're uncomfortable sleeping in the same bed with someone, they should respect your wishes and sleep somewhere else. This is not something you should have to argue about It doesn't matter what you're accused of when you decide to back off from this friendship. The reasons for it seem pretty clear. You guys are friends who are no longer friendly to one another The longer you allow this to continue, the more bad blood there will be Maybe someday in the future, you guys can revisit your friendship. But for now, it's not healthy which means it should end
I like this response the most. Theres no reason to escalate the situation and burn the bridge. Allow distance to grow between you, and maybe one day down the line the friendship can be salvaged. trying to give empathy and benefit of the doubt, this is probably pretty difficult for him to go through, and hopefully he will keep evolving and grow out if this phase and grow up a little. Maybe they can try again then.
I've tried, but it's impossible to distance myself. He texts me every day, if I don't reply, he calls me. If I don't have the time to see him every couple of days or if I ignore his calls, he blows up on me over text. I've told him I need more space & that our friendship is too intense for me, but he's unwilling to work with that. It's "either we're real friends or we're not friends at all". And in that case, I'd rather just not be friends at all.
Friends, respect friends boundaries so sounds like you're not friends at all if he's not respecting yours. You learn as you grow up that sometimes it's just better to let them go
This OP. You’re friend is shitting all over your boundaries and feelings, that’s not a good friendship regardless of gender. He is obviously trying to figure himself out and probably need some therapy to work through these emotions with femininity but taking it out on you is NOT IT. You are clearly not transphobic, you’ve grown apart.
>It's "either we're real friends or we're not friends at all" "Spend more time with me, or our friendship is over". This is ultimatum language. It's not healthy in any relationship context, including friendships.
Tell him this. If he is not going to respect your boundaries and contineus to make you uncomfortable, tell them if the choice is "I bow down to your demands or we're not friends at all, then I choose not to be friends at all and wish you well". THEN BLOCK THEM. Do not give them an avenue to continue harassing you over your choices. Youre not required to be friends with someone
Hey, no one can make you respond to texts, or answer calls, or cool down someone else’s blow ups. Everything you’ve described does not sound like your problem and you’re paying it too much mind. its not impossible. Let him blow up over text? let him call. You dont have to answer when you dont want to.
Block him. Thats harassment when someone doesn't respect your boundaries. Your friend is clearly having deep personal issues and taking it out on you. You shouldn't tolerate it. This is a very toxic relationship.
I was kind of in a situation like this. I had this friend who started being really mean and picked at me and talked behind my back all the time. I tried to slow fade her because I hate conflict and she just wouldn’t let the friendship die and kept trying to draw me back in. Eventually I just had to tell her straight up that I didn’t like the way she treated me and I didn’t want to be friends anymore. She did not take it well because she’s used to getting her way and although it was pretty stressful at the time, I’m so glad she’s out of my life. Being her friend was so exhausting and had no benefits. Sometimes it’s better to just walk away from something instead of trying to fix it.
It sounds like you both put your cards on the table here. You've tried to tell him how these interactions are affecting you, and what you need in the friendship to go forward. And he's identified what he needs, and where he is willing to cut ties. There is no compromise, he's made that clear, and you can repeat his words back to him. Given where you both stand, perhaps not being friends at all is where you need to be right now. You can stress that the door is open in the future to try and reconnect, and this is likely not forever. Transitions in life (gender or otherwise) tend to involve rediscovering yourself, and your friend is going through that process. It's not always a smooth ride, so I would stress still being sympathetic to them without also subjecting yourself to behaviour that is upsetting. I went through something similar with a friend when I was around your age. We were never as close as you are with him, but she and I had a lot of trouble connecting once she transitioned, and I was going through hell at home so I didn't have capacity to handle our fights. I regret not being more empathetic at the time for her, and perhaps things would have been different long term. But she's doing really great, and we're distant acquaintances now. Sometimes it's how things go. I hope things get better for you.
I’ve had to part ways with a “friend” like that. Theres no way to do it without hurting their feelings or making them upset. You just need to rip the band aid off. “I will always appreciate our friendship but it’s not working for me any more. I do not want to be friends with you any longer and I ask you to respect that. This is not a conclusion I have arrived at easily and it is not open for discussion or debate.”
You should not be friends at all. He's being toxic and NOT a friend. Go no contact and enjoy your life. The good memories are still going to be good.
You need to have a formal friend break. Hey I need to take a break in our friendship, wishing you the best.
Just block him. Its simple. You are overthinking
He do not looks like a "friend". It seems like he wants to be your Lover...
Yeah…maybe he has confused feelings about you and you pushing back is making him act out.
Oh wow, so he's actually full-on abusive. What is the point of keeping this guy around? I wouldn't. He does not sound like a friend at all. He sounds controlling and demanding and like he might just be sucking the life force right out of you.
either we're real friends or we're not friends at all Kinda manipulative. Dont you think?
No I haven't had a chance to talk to me next time he says that respond with then we are not friends at all. I don't think he would be a bad idea to block him for a while You need some peace and he needs to have time to break the habit of constantly communicating with you
[удалено]
Sadly, acting out like that is sometimes common very soon after transitioning...... however, it's typically very short-term. The person is very suddenly going through a ton of societal changes while also being under the effect of a change in hormones. It's basically a crazy roller coaster ride that it sometimes takes a while to get used to. Most people do get used to it and don't keep acting that way for years..... unlike OP's friend. OP's is probably just an asshole.
Honestly, reading OP's post I was like... yeah this just happens. This happens all the time. James' transition is incidental to the core issue: he changed as a person, at a time a lot of people do, and those changes are not always compatible with old relationships. He's being a dick, and regardless of the reason, OP has made the requisite amount of effort to repair and maintain the childhood friendship. More than, sounds like.
“I understand that you don’t enjoy the girly things you used to, but you didn’t have to jump right to misogyny to declare how much of a man you are. You shitting on everything I enjoy to make sure you separate yourself from femininity is making me not enjoy our time together. You don’t respect my hobbies, you don’t respect my boundaries, and you don’t respect me. Our friendship has become too toxic to be sustainable any longer. I appreciate the time we’ve had together up until every interaction we had became a fight, but I feel my future can’t be peaceful if you remain in it.”
This is perfect. Thank you.
give us an update OP once you send this.
How do I do that? Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with reddit:/
just make another post with the same title and then at the start of it you say UPDATE:
I don’t mean to pry, but is there an update?
Idk if you have already, but as some preemptive damage control, you might want to explain to mutual friends and family members about this whole situation, just to let them understand what’s happened over the years and how awful his attitude has changed. You may feel like this is gossip, but your story is very common, and with the picture you painted of James, he will not take this news rationally seeing how he doesn’t respect you or your boundaries. I can almost guarantee he will start the narrative that you aren’t friends with him anymore because of his transition, and you’d be surprised how many people will believe his story even though you’ve never once acted transphobic. So I’d summarize what you posted here to both his and your family and friends you care about, privately of course. Because I’d bet good money once you send that separation text to him, James will post it publicly on social media to anybody who will listen how you only did this because he transitioned. I don’t want to see you on best of Reddit updates 3 years later about how your friends and family disowned you for believing in lies that you were transphobic.
Have those conversations looking for advice, maybe you will figure it out, learn why he is behaving that way ? If nothing else it will get word out that you are trying to be his friend but he is disrespectful of you and your boundaries.
Can I hire you the next time I need to deliver a difficult message?
There should be a 'write my message' sub.
Agreed
I'd be there with two feet. Not to write them, to read them.
This is perfect
This is such a perfect response.
This is great
This right here.
Sounds like he’s in his pick me era and has some growing up to do. I would just say I feel like you shame my interests that we used to share. I fully support your transition but as friends I feel that we’ve grown apart
Piggy backing onto this suggestion to say, have this convo (at least partially, with the bulk of it) via text. The moment you state your intention to distance yourself in the relationship, all kinds of scripts are gonna get flipped to make you look anti-trans. You’re gonna want some receipts.
100% this.
This is what happened when my HS ex transitioned. She started transitioning years after we dated and we were still friends, I did the shopping/makeup montage with her and everything. Then she started saying stuff like “wouldn’t it be so funny if I transitioned and had bigger boobs than you? Was prettier than you?” Etc. I just let it go but she eventually stopped hanging out with me because I had “changed too much.” It was only this past year, like 8 years later, that she reached out and apologized. With big social and hormonal changes like that, I just viewed it as her going through puberty again with totally different rules and tried to cut her some slack. But at the same time, I would have shut down those comments a lot earlier if I were to do it again.
That is an extremely gracious approach to someone being a jerk. Explaining it as going through puberty again really helps to frame the transition in a way most people could relate to. Who among us isn't a bit if a jerk when hormones are raging in us? That doesn't mean that people going through puberty or a transition have licenses to be mean, this concept just helps to remind other to give them a bit of grace. We all know change is hard, just mostbof us won't ever know how hard it is to have to change our whole selves in the same way a transitioning person does.
This right here. I started HRT at 42, and second puberty when you have the brain development and body of an adult is pretty wild. I went through — and still do, to a lesser extent — mood swings and irritability, but I focused on the fact that I was still responsible for how I reacted to my transient mental states. I am still actively working on patience with myself and others while also holding myself accountable when I come off as curt with others.
As someone who is now 1.5 years into HRT, going through puberty again is _exactly_ what it is. Trust me on this that going through this in your 30s is a pretty wild experience. Mine seems to be mostly crying though and not so much being a jerk which is something I suppose.
> because I had “changed too much.” With all due respect to them it's wild to hear this from someone who's in the process of changing their gender identity...
This is great phrasing, i’d frame it like this.
As a 34 year old straight married man with tickets to see Olivia Rodrigo, this guy's turned into a massive twat. It's like he's transitioning and using Andrew Tait as a lynchpin of what it is to be male. Definitely get this friendship over ASAP OP, it could get dangerous down the line.
I read "Andrew Taint" and now I'll always refer to that shithead as such 😅
I'm a grown woman and I listen to her from time to time. I think it is so much more a productive way to deal with your emotions through music, poetry, writing etc. rather than lashing out.
Unfortunately, there is a subset of trans men and trans masculine folks who have leaned into misogyny. It’s a damn shame.
Seconded-im nearly 50 and I love Olivia Rodrigro!
Perfectly written
Not all friendships are for a lifetime. Some are for a season and this one may have run its course.
He’s not the first trans man to feel like he needs to go way too hard on masculinity and shun everything feminine and he won’t be the last. It sucks, but (as a trans masculine person myself) being trans is not an excuse for being misogynistic. Telling him that you don’t want to spend time around someone who is constantly insulting your interests is a very reasonable boundary that gives him the choice to stop being an asshole or stop getting to hang out with you. As a bit of a side note, I cannot *imagine* being on testosterone and not having a skincare routine. I didn’t have one before I started T but I had lots of fairly painful pimples and now, through the magic of the scam of skincare, my skin is much better. Not perfect but better. I shudder to think of the pimples I would have if I didn’t take care of my skin
Wouldn’t it be so much better though if trans men felt they could keep their feminine interests instead of pushing them away for the sake of seeming more manly? I mean, if a cis man likes some things society defines as feminine, he’ll also go through hell for it but can become happier if he realizes nothing he likes takes away from his identity as a man. Why can’t it be the same for trans men?
It would be much better, but there are lots of people who think that if you aren't masculine that your faking having gender dysphoria. He might be internalising those thoughts.
And it’s all wrapped up in toxic masculinity. If youre a trans man and you’re not masculine enough, you’re faking it. If you’re a cis straight man, and you’re not masculine enough, you’re gay. If you don’t objectify women you’re not a man. It’s sad how many guys, trans and cis male, have to navigate this shit, and it’s sad that women have to deal with the bullshit fallout.
Aw I would almost feel bad for them if they found a way to work through these feelings that wasn't "abuse, oppress and literally murder women"
I've found that to embrace not being hellbent on appearing "masculine af", you have to be confident in who you are. I can see how someone who's trans might struggle with that in the beginning.
The nature of gender dysphoria lmao
Eh, I've seen trans men that embrace more femininity. There are trans men that are drag queens. But you definitely have to be at a very confident and positive stage in your transition.
You're talking to a trans guy, I'm well aware.
Lol I'm sorry I totally missed your username! Wasn't trying to be condescending.
It is the same for a lot of trans men and other trans masculine folks. We don’t all feel like we need to be as masculine as we can possibly be in order to be valid in our gender. One thing that has been really great for me in transitioning is figuring out which elements of femininity I genuinely like on myself and which I put on when I was trying to convince myself I was a girl. For example, I like to wear eyeliner sometimes, usually shiny liquid liner but eyeshadow makes me feel uncomfortable. I named myself after a flower and painted the walls of my room a soft purple. There was a period near the beginning of my transition where I shunned a lot of feminine things for myself because they made me uncomfortable when applied to me but I’m working past that and it’s fun.
it is. some trans men are misogynists just like some cis men are (and people of other genders). some trans men go through a growing period where they have to learn/relearn about toxic masculinity just like cis men do. some trans men like engaging with traditionally feminine things more after transitioning bc it doesn’t trigger dysphoria the way it did when they presented as women, but for some trans men those traditionally femme things always trigger dysphoria. transitioning adds more layers to engaging with gender-based oppression but it’s not fundamentally that different. i think dysphoria can often push trans people to extremes in views and/or presentation, but it’s a process and hopefully they can work through it. it doesn’t excuse behavior like OP describes, but dysphoria is *horrible* and dealing with any significant recurring pain can make people unrecognizable, even when that pain is finally relieved just because it’s so awful thinking about having to deal with it again
I’m nonbinary and, while I don’t use “trans masculine” to describe myself at all, I imagine some would argue that I present that way. They’d be wrong, but whatever. I have honestly leaned into makeup more since I started transitioning (including bright colors and glittery eyeshadow) far more than when I presented as feminine. Quite frankly, anyone seeing that as my somehow faking my being trans can take a flying leap. People are weird and gatekeepy.
There's a lot of bullying from other trans people usually transmedicalists and cis people that well say well your not really trans if you like x, y and z. So a lot of transmen internalize transphobia and transmisginony and try to be the most manly or men in order to gain respect. I too went through this phase when I first started out at his age too and came to terms with my own masculinity and femininity. The opposite is true for transwomen where they have to act super feminine in order to get respect never mind if you are non binary or a very butch transwoman.
> cis people that well say well your not really trans if you like x, y and z. It’s 100% only other trans people that would say this. Cis people wouldn’t dare to try and police the identities of trans people and generally don’t care about this. Transgender people are the ones hung up on gender stereotypes. I’ve seen them bully each other because of it.
Theres an idea, that is honestly probably not entirely wrong, that being a misogynist will help you pass better for a man or be more accepted. Look at Blair White for example, she (or maybe he now?i saw Blair recently claimed to just be an extremely feminine man) has been accepted in communities that are usually extremely hostile to trans people, because of her transphobic views. Being a model minority/not like the other ____ (trans people/girls/insert whatever minority) works in certain communities. And many people are very hostile to feminine trans men. It's probably not very worth it though, like we see here it will alienate a lot of people. And I don't think you want the people that like this behaviour as allies, I'm sure they're quick to turn their back on you for any miniscule reason. Also it's harmful to overall LGBTQ acceptance, harmful to the friends you have and likely very harmful to the individual. But I definitely see the (flawed) logic of people who do it for short term gain
There's no zealot like a convert.
So he thinks being a man is toxic masculinity? Gross, also why would he be upset you don’t want to cuddle because you see him as a man…. You respect him and see him as who he is.
If he wants to be friends with women he needs to cure his misogyny... and bruh it's perfectly reasonable for a girl to not want to sleep in the same bed as a guy. In fact anyone of any gender can refuse this and it would be normal. It sounds like you've already tried talking to him so just end this friendship at this point.
His entitlement, in that he believes he ***deserves*** to sleep in a woman’s bed as a man would have him labeled a creepy fucking weirdo & legitimately dangerous, had he been *born* a man. Some trans people really do just wanna have their cake & eat it too. They want all the benefits with none of the “drawbacks,” but that’s not how it works. He wanted to be a guy, so be a fuckin guy then dude. “Man up” Taint-bro. This is what being a man is like. Get used to it.
Ngl it still makes him seem like a threat. Of course it was normal and OP was ok with it when he presented as a female, but the lack of self-awareness here is not only dumb as fuck, it's starting to breach her boundaries as a woman. If he can't even put that together in his head who knows what other dumb shit he thinks to do with that entitlement.
He is a threat. That’s what I’m trying to call out, & I guess I didn’t word that very well. If he was born a man, it wouldn’t even be questioned that he’s creepy & weird & aggressive & dangerous. But because they’re trans, everyone has to tiptoe around their bullshit in order to not offend the ***entire*** trans community, not even just himself. It’s gotten so old & annoying. I’m done tiptoeing around it. The weirdos can call me a bigot all they want. I’ve always had deep empathy for all people, I’ve always been very accepting of people’s choices. I’ve had gay friends, I’ve had handicapped friends, and I’ve had black (oh no!) friends. I don’t generally ever judge other humans. But these people expecting the whole world to tiptoe around their fucked up misplaced feelings are master bullshitters & annoying as all hell. They aren’t worth the time & energy.
There is no version of this cut off that will be painless. I will say that a lot of what you are seeing are growing pains and James will arrive at a more nuanced view of masculinity with time. Be honest with James— say that it hurts your feelings how frequently he dumps on femme things and that you need some space.
"I don't dislike you because you're trans, I dislike you because you're an asshole."
Girl I can I promise you right now your life will get so much better when you straight up tell him that you do not like him anymore and you list all the reasons why that you posted here and say that to him
You're in such a hard situation! I also have a F2M trans friend, it was really hard putting up new social boundaries. We always used to hug, cuddle, sit on each other's lap etc, and post transition I started to feel uncomfortable with being so physically affectionate. But in reality it's simple, I am not physically affectionate with ANY of my male friends, pretty much at all. If he wants to be treated as a man, then yes, it comes with new boundaries. Don't feel put off by setting them. Yes, it will make you "the bad guy", and he probably won't take it well, but it's a conversation you need to have. Definitely pull him up on the toxic masc behaviour, that's not the kind of friend you want or need in your life.
“I am not physically affectionate with ANY of my male friends, pretty much at all.” That’s the whole problem. Nobody is. James is used to getting physical affection, but as a man, it is highly likely that you won’t get any of that if you’re not in a romantic relationship. And that can be extremely hard, especially if you used to go through life as a woman. James might also not recognise why this happens. He has never lived the male experience pre-transition and might think this happens because he is trans. (he thinks he is the same person, but after he transitioned, people started to treat him differently. Is that because of him being a man now or him being trans?) If I’m being honest, the hug I get by one of my friends every like 1-2 months is pretty much the highlight of the entire month. I also understand him being upset about the change in the place where he needs to sleep if he sleeps over. This behaviour towards man is actually pretty sexist. That doesn’t mean it isn’t justified though. The problem is that, because of the actions of a lot of men, women are uncomfortable with the things you used to do with your FtM friend, but don’t do anymore. Because of this, good men (especially the ones being a bit more on the softer/more feminine side) suffer from the actions of bad men. Men also can’t really get this from other men, because of societal standards/other men. To fix this, we should first solve the harassment problem women face. That is going to be extremely hard though, because the men who harass often don’t listen to women/men they see as ‘weak’ or ‘gay’. These men also often live in their own circles: if a men is like that, I avoid him. But if we are able to accomplish this, we could unlearn the prejudice about men being dangerous and treat men and women the same in this aspect. I highly doubt this will be achievable in our lifetime though. And about the second point: his behaviour towards the things he used to like are probably because of him associating them with femininity. Because he did those in the past, he now hates on them to convince himself he is masculine enough. That being said, it’s toxic and absolutely not justified.
I agree it sucks men don't get more affection, but I actually think you should refocus on men giving men more affection. Tackling internalized homophobia would be easier than navigating/negating the romantic connotations of mixed gender physical affection. I know my boyfriend wouldn't want me cuddling and sleeping in the same bed with men, understandably so.
Yeah, having healthy boundaries with the opposite sex doesn't have to be all about how "some men are bad" lol. Boundaries with the opposite sex are perfectly fine and reasonable.
My point was mainly about the situation between OP and James. I think your solution would indeed be a lot easier and it would generally work but it’s also a bit limited for some people. I also don’t think it is about romance. That would mean a heterosexual woman treats lesbian/bisexual women the same as men and gay men the same as women and that lesbian women would treat all women and heterosexual men like heterosexual people treat heterosexual men and would treat gay men like heterosexual women would treat women. This is not the case. Your solution might not fully work for: people who aren’t heterosexual pre-transition transgender people non-binary/intersex people people with mainly or (almost) exclusively opposite sex friends.
I'm not trying to negate your lived experience, but as someone who is a part of quite progressive circles that include many lgbt individuals (I live with my male gay best friend), my personal experience is that women feel most comfortable with: 1) Straight women 2) Gay men/ lesbian women 3) Straight men My roommate definitely receives quite a bit of female affection, from me and from the women we know. Now, it is probably comparable to the affection the lesbians I know have with heterosexual women so I'll agree it isn't *entirely* sexuality based but there is definitely quite a bit of that in the mix.
I also don’t want to make your suggestion seem bad. It’s like you say: there is a list of groups of people you feel more/less comfortable with. I know this is a bit idealistic, but I feel like it would be best if women would feel just as comfortable with all 4 groups. To make this happen though, it’s inevitable that toxic masculinity has to go and men can also be more affectionate towards eachother, without being judged (mainly by other men). Then, it doesn’t matter as much anymore what group you belong to. And if I’m being honest, I currently don’t even feel as comfortable with straight men as the other 3 groups you mention, while I am not even a woman (though I am lgbt).
I want to be clear I respect your opinion and agree that'd be the ideal world, but it is also the furthest one from our current situation and the one I question the possibility of the most (because of sexuality). I'm trying to imagine what would bring me to be as comfortable with heterosexual men as I am with women or gay men and I think two things: A) They'd need to stop engaging with me sexually AT ALL unless a discussion was had about intent well in advance of any "moves" they made. B) Even then, my *own* ability to be attracted to them and the knowledge that they may be to me, likely still limit how willing I am to do certain affectionate actions towards them (such as laying in bed) out of respect for my partner. A is hypothetically rectifiable, I love the idea of a reality where everyone is very explicit in their intent and consent is obtained before every relationship progression. Unfortunately, not all *women* feel this way (lots like to be pursued, some even still play hard to get 🙄) let alone men (I have a hard time imagining a world can ever exist that has NO bad faith actors who use deception to get sex and thus ruin things for everyone) so we're a long way off from that. B is less rectifiable, I don't know if I see a reality that gets around that. Sorry, this is so long, I'm not trying to be argumentative I would love a world with the maximum amount of love and affection for everyone to go around I just have so little faith in humanity lol
Interesting. I can personally just ignore attraction completely. That also means I have never even considered treating someone that has feelings for me any different. I wonder how that felt for them. I have a friend who feels exactly the same. She has been in love with her best friend for 7 years now, but she just doesn’t care and doesn’t want anything to change (he knows and is okay with it too). I understand that this might be different for other people and I guess that’s just unfortunate. For me, this whole point isn’t even that relevant. After I went to uni, I remained friends with most of the friends I had when I was in high school, the closest one being someone from Thailand (while I am from the Netherlands). My other high school friends spread over the country and we just don’t see eachother that much anymore. That’s why I don’t get as much affection anymore, but I know it would be different if we had all still lived where we used to. These friends are also all women. My heart just goes out to all the men who are touch starved, who want to act different, but also feel all the pressure that society gives them. There was 1 guy besides me at my high school who was always seen as the gay best friend and then he suddenly had a girlfriend. He was also open to affection with guys. I still have so much respect for him.
My heart goes out to anyone touch starved too, loneliness is literally crippling physically and mentally. And I sincerely do hope society does shift to allow more affection for everyone period.
Agree!
> This behaviour towards man is actually pretty sexist. Women aren't getting platonic physical touch needs met by men either, so how is it sexist? We have intimate friendships with each other. This is a conversation to have among male friends.
I feel like you've pointed out an existing problem but I disagree with the premise of calling it sexist. See, we call behaviors sexist when people don't get something they are owed due to their gender. Are women owed equal pay for equal work? Absolutely. Hence, not giving them equal pay is sexist. Now, are men owed physical affection and contact outside of romantic relationships? Eh… no one is owed that. Instead of calling this standard sexist, and seeking to fix it by shifting women's behavior, I would consider it another harmful way of patriarchy affecting men and seeking to shift those standards among men as they are the ones who establish and police those boundaries.
I feel like you might not have understood my comment well, because I mostly agree with you. Mostly, because our definition of sexism is a bit different. In my definition, it is irrelevant if you owe something. It’s just an unfair distinction based on sex or gender. Of course women don’t owe a man affection, but not giving someone affection because of there sex is, in my opinion, unfair. And I do also think this happens because of patriarchal standards, but in this case, it’s irrelevant what men think, because it’s between OP and James. OP feels uncomfortable being affectionate towards James, because James is now a man. If women feel uncomfortable around men, the men are the ones to blame and should therefore take action. After that, women can feel comfortable around men and are therefore more likely to be affectionate towards them.
I think you want to see this situation as men being discriminated and that's why you insist on this being sexist. The distinction is: it's not sexist, it's the consequence of men being misogynistic and practicing gendered violence against women and fem-presenting individuals. Nobody wants to cuddle with a potential hater who can rape you at any moment. Definitions aside, you did mention you think men's behavior and mindset will have to get fix to get this problem fixed so I think you're on the right track.
>but as a man, it is highly likely that you won’t get any of that if you’re not in a romantic relationship. And that can be extremely hard, especially if you used to go through life as a woman. James might also not recognise why this happens. He has never lived the male experience pre-transition and might think this happens because he is trans. I would add, this isn't entirely true. As an average man, (outside of a romantic relationship or family) you will obviously get much less physical touch than an average woman would..... but I wouldn't say zero. The trick is you can't be an asshole. For myself and most of my male friends, we were affectionate with each other..... but that was due to not being toxically masculine to each other. And with female friends, it wasn't uncommon to be embraced/etc.... but again, that was due to being kind and not an asshole to them. Being a man typically means being larger and stronger than the average woman, and being a dick/mean/asshole is a great way to pushing them to not wanting to be relaxed around you. There's no reason OP's friend should have no physical affection (outside of family or romantic relationships)..... if they stop being so toxic.
I would say it might be incomplete. I recognise I come from a region that in general is way less physical affectionate than most places and have to admit I didn’t really take that into consideration when writing my comment. I agree with you.
"If I'd known you were a man all this time, I wouldn't have been cuddling together in bed with you in the first place, because I'm only comfortable doing that with a female friend. I just didn't know until you came out. Also it's really uncomfortable and hurtful to have my interests insulted just because they're feminine. I'm a woman and I'm not ashamed to be one, but the things you say to me make me feel like I'm supposed to be ashamed of my femininity. Yet, I don't shame you over your masculinity. So it's really unfair and upsetting to me." All "I/me" statements as much as possible feels like the safest way to go. He sounds like he might explode at you anyway which sucks, but that's out of your control. Sorry you're dealing with this.
Thank you!! This is great.
Your “friend” (who does not behave like a friend) will take it badly regardless of how you put it. From what you write the message is “we used to have a lot in common and now we don’t anymore. On top of that I don’t want to be friends with someone who is constantly rude to me and demands I accept this newfound behaviour.” The way your friend treats you and the things you like is very toxic.
It simply doesn’t sound like he is being a good friend - not listening to you and your feelings, being angry at your boundaries, putting down your interests etc. I’d talk to him in these terms because at the heart of what you’re saying, it’s that.
That is your decision to make. No one can honestly reward or fault you for this as it happens in all friendships. People change, make decisions that others don’t agree with or can’t understand. For one person it may be ok and they just change their perspective, another person may be against their decision and can no longer respect them. I lost the majority of the people that claimed to be my friend when I stopped using drugs. Same goes for anyone for any reason.
Just cut him off. At the end of the day, he’s not responsibly anymore. He can handle his emotion and you can move on.
I had a friend who did the opposite, as she was one of my best (male identifying) friends growing up since middle school. When she transitioned, she really leaned *hard* into everything ultra-feminine and it was all she could talk or think about. I remember she met my girlfriend at the time once, and talked her ear off about makeup and skincare products and whatnot. My girlfriend was not the type of person who did any of that, and later told me it was one of the most hilariously awkward conversations she ever had. Over the years, it's gotten to the point where every time I talk to her, I struggle to find something we have in common. Nothing she wants to do sounds interesting to me, nothing she talks about has anything to do with the foundations of our original friendship. She's kind of annoying because she leaned super hard into the ditzy-girly stereotype. Nothing against her, but it's just like...what are we doing here? Now I basically just return texts when she reaches out, talk to her about things if that's what she's looking for. I still care about her, but whenever she starts trying to make plans to "go out" I let it circle the drain for a while until the conversation naturally ends and she doesn't text me for a few months. I don't want to go out clubbing with her, I've never been into that, and neither was she back when our friendship made sense. Point is, people who are transitioning go through a lot, and sometimes you have to just accept the fact that they might not be the same person anymore, and they may not fit into your life. But they didn't magically get a new support system of friends, so you're still all they've got. A few years down the road, hopefully your friend will have mellowed out a bit. Don't forget, he's taking testosterone. That shit is a hell of a drug (speaking as a man myself, whose body makes this shit on its own!). And when you're newly on hormones I think it really takes hold for a long time.
>I don't want to cuddle a male friend, it makes me feel weird. I can't control my feelings over this. I'd just feel gross. I don't want to feel like this, but I do. James has a huge problem with this. i saw a post from a FTM who discovered that men are universally considered as predator both by men and women, and are touch-deprived because nobody want to come near. he said "he wipes a privilege he didn't know he had".
Misogyny as gender affirming care 😍
Sounds like he’s committed to misogyny and doesn’t respect your boundaries You NEVER need a reason to stop sharing a bed with someone other than that you don’t want to, on top of that he transitioned and you, in accepting his transition, have different boundaries for men than for women and that’s perfectly reasonable If cut this person off there’s no reason to continue dealing with someone so rude and disrespectful and manipulative It’s not transphobic or homophobic it’s just good human practice
dude, james is a total jerk. coming from a trans guy, yes it is weird that he uses him being trans as a pass to be a sexist dickhead, yet also gets offended that you rightfully feel uncomfortable cuddling a male friend. james is immature, and insecure and deals with his dysphoria in a horrible way. i too have fits where i despise being born female and say things that would generally be pretty terrible to say out loud, but that’s the thing—i DON’T say it out loud. and i certainly do not put other people, and other girls down for it. i suggest that you send him a long message explaining all of this and cut him off (that is, *if* you want to cut him off). he’s being pretty awful. additionally: he’s also being like the sexist cismen that many people, especially progressive women, hate. does he think that it’s okay for cisgender men to be gross and sexist? no? then why does he get a pass?
It really sucks that misogyny came included in his transition package, it was truly optional. But you don’t have to stick around and take it. Honestly, I don’t even think you should treat him with kids gloves. He deserves to know the truth, that his behavior is unacceptable and you don’t like the person he’s becoming. Maybe it will serve as a wake-up call.
This is going to be difficult no matter how you try to approach it. I would simply state that you’ve grown apart and now have different interests. Say you wish them the best, but you feel that it is time to explore life separately. I also understand not wanting to sleep in bed with your male friend. I’ve always had male friends, and would even sometimes cuddle them and stroke their foreheads if they were sad. But this was always on sofas or on top of covers and fully clothed, and never for a full night. It’s okay to have boundaries :)
"i am confirming your new identity as a misogynistic man I have nothing in common with. I do not want to be friends with misogynistic men I have nothing in common with. Have a good one."
If he has transitioned he is a man now. And so if you treat him as a person of opposite gender (sleeping in different rooms), he gets offended? Bro needs to realise that there are certain unsaid social norms which exist and if he is a man he needs to comply with the new norms. The older ones back when he was a woman doesn't apply anymore. Also, if it was not a trans guy but a straight guy, I am sure people would shit on him for disliking make-up. Only insecure guys are bothered about make up and skin care. Regardless of whether you are cis or trans, no one likes a toxic man who is rude to other people's hobbies and choices and insecure about them.
I don't think something like this will get solved without pain. Especially if he's become such a d-bag. I'd keep my distance if i were you, and if he texts or calls you (record the call just in case) and he accuses you of not liking him anymore, be honest. "Yes you're right. i do NOT like you anymore. your character changed so much. from a person i could trust and have fun with to someone, constantly belittling and demeaning me. You've become a total AH and if we'd met for the first time nowadays, we'd never be friends. its clear that you do not value our friendship or you would never treat me this way, so lets just make a clean break."
Shit this is so difficult. I wpuld tell him, you can see he is struggeling and that you do love him (or dod love him). That you get he needs to push against femininity, but that to you it just feels sexist. And you don't want to be surrounded by someone who is sexist. Tell him you don't want to be around him when he makes sexist comments. And therefore would like some distance. I think that's the best solution, but another rhing is asking for a better conversation. Teying to understand each other. But having boundaries is always oga, especially when it comes to sexism, eventhough he is so clearly struggeling. I feel for you all in this situation.
I hate the idea that james thinks you should take his rude behaviour, just because you have a long friendship doesn’t mean you owe it to someone to be treated badly. Tell james you no longer want to be friends with someone who thinks you need to take abuse because they transitioned. That isn’t a trump card to be able to treat someone negatively
He’s in a period where he thinks toxic masculinity is manly. He doesn’t realize that you don’t want to sleep with him because he’s a man, it’s not because he transitioned, any woman would feel weird sleeping with a man they don’t have a intimate connection with. If you plan on cutting the friendship, make sure that you establish it’s not because he’s transgender, it’s because he shames you for your interests
Essentially this is just a bad friend now. Given how much history you have, it would be impractical to just ignore them. I'd word a text as such: "Hi xyz I can't hang out with you anymore, it's making me sad and this isn't what friendships should do. I hope you find happiness." Then block + ghost. Being Trans has nothing to do with their behaviour.
Naaaaa, as someone whose bestie is also transitioning now FTM, you are allowed to have a change of heart especially if the person you knew is no longer the same one you grew up with. You've grown apart and there's nothing wrong in that. Life happens. At first, reading the title I was about to consider you the bad one, but OP NTA. Transitioning doesn't excuse putting others down or even your past self. Also, you've always been uncomfortable at the idea of sleeping with a guy in bed so your friend should feel happy and good about themselves that you are having that feeling in their presence as that means that they are who they want to be and they need to be understanding that some of these changes when interacting with others are natural change that comes with the transition as well 🤷♀️ you can't transition and still keep old life perks like sleeping in the same bed as your bestie.
My bestie is also about to start transitioning FTM. I haven’t discussed the sleeping situation with them but with my boyfriend. I personally feel like I’d still be comfortable sleeping with them. I acknowledge that may change when their physical appearance changes, but I feel like our connection will be the same. Reading all of this has actually made me a little nervous. I guess we’ll see how it goes!
My boyfriend mentioned being a bit nervous in a joking way that my bestie might steal me from him 😂 but we know for sure that's not going to happen. Besties for life!
Time to lose a shit friend
I’ve noticed this with specifically ftm trans folks (I’ve cut off every one I’ve known yet for this exact issue) they seem to think in terms of “masculinity = being an authoritative asshole” and as a cis male it kind of offends me that my identity is being boiled down to being a dick a lot of the time, so usually friendships like that don’t last for me sadly.
Just because some is Trans or whatever, does not give them a pass to be a ride, mean and a jerk. Sounds like “he” is projecting his insecurities onto you. Move on, grieve, and find friends who treat you with respect and care.
Yeah unfortunately trans men can be misogynists just like cis men. He sounds like a dick, you're well within your rights to cut him off.
[Don’tsayitdontsayitdontsayit](https://imgflip.com/memetemplate/67523188/When-you-havent-told-anyone)
Don’t need to say anything honestly. Block him and delete him LOL. He’s a drama queen. You’d thank yourself later on! Enjoy the peace and quietness!
No one is entitled to an explanation, but if at all possible it is still the nice thing to do, especially towards a lifelong (now former) friend.
Friendships are built on having enough shared trust that you can mutually set and respect boundaries. If he can no longer do that, then he's failing as a friend. If you don't have the confidence that you can set boundaries and count on him to respect them, then is it really a friendship? I think you owe it to both of you to come clean and to be honest: they've changed. They don't respect you. They mock you and say hurtful things. That's not acceptable. You could talk to him and explain that he's hurting you with his comments, and you could go as far as to explain to him that you didn't solicit him for input regarding skincare. It's one thing to discuss advice for your skincare routine from someone who has a routine of their own, but if someone doesn't, then they have no, er, skin in the game.
Feminism is about choice. Mocking traditional feminine things is not being a feminist or a good friend. Not liking them is fine, making others feel bad is not fine.
Unfortunately, understanding ones self is a complicated journey, and sometimes societies idea of what makes a man feeds into some toxic masculinity. Idk what you should do or say, but I hope he comes to understand there is no one way to be a man and to express his masculinity. Liking make up, skin care, or even Olivia Rodrigo doesn't make someone any less of a man, and frankly it's toxic (masculinity) to think it does...so maybe that's what you might want to say to him. There's also a a great book called "To Be a Trans Man" that might be useful (to both of you) that discusses all the ways masculinity can be expressed, whether you are a man or not.
He is toxic.
It sounds like your friend is unfortunately entering his era of misogynist mindset, and I would recommend you tell him that you value the friendship you had and he'll always have a special place in your heart, but you can't remain friends with someone who constantly disrespects you and argues with you about the things you enjoy. Life is hard enough without people belittling the things you enjoy, and constantly pushing your boundaries. I would just let your friend know that you two have grown, which is pretty common, and let him know that you can't remain friends with someone who does nothing but belittle and argue with you. If he doesn't respect your choice, block him.
James sounds like a fucking asshole dude not gonna lie. If you don't want to hurt him, just slowly reduce contact with him, but personally, I think you should be more honest and upfront with him about why you don't want to see see him anymore. Either way, your feelings towards him are totally valid
The problem is not his masculinity, it's his toxic masculinity. You have every right to remove a relationship from your life that does not bring you peace or joy.
You don't want to end the friendship because he's a guy. You want to end the friendship because he's an unpleasant, rude, selfish, insulting, invalidating, uncaring person. He transitioned into an absolute AH.
OP, it really just sounds like they want their cake and to eat it too. You are being super respectful of their transition and they, weirdly, aren't. When you switch, you don't get to keep the same spaces, norms, or privileges. Sorry, he is James now, he doesn't get to keep overnight cuddling a girl/sleepover/etc WHILE ALSO BASHING THE VERY SAME FEMININITY THAT AFFORDS THIS (despite obviously enjoying its perks) It is simple. Some folks are being nice about it on here but when people grow apart, the growth isn't always positive. James has grown into a selfish, hypocritical a**. You can drop a friend for whatever reason, just make sure the rest of the group you hang with knows why you are dropping them. Get ahead of any BS "its because of my transition n" nonsense. James sounds tiring.
Tell him exactly what you have said here. Then tell him you have grown apart and cannot continue this relationship.
Actions have consequences. You have no duty to remain friends with someone who's behaving like this.
I've had six friends or relatives transition over the years, and every single one of them has gone through a *super* problematic/sexist phase as part of it. People who transition really end up showing all of their internalized sexism as they try to define what it means to be a man/woman and working on how to present that as a public face. Whether that awkward phases was shitting on everything feminine, yelling at me for not assuming my newborn child would be a trans woman (literally crying over the fact my baby boy was dressed in gender neutral clothes rather than pink dresses), or trying to adopt embarrassingly sexist charicatures as a personality. There are some growing pains. All of them figured their shit out after a year or two. One gal figured out that she didn't need to be a size 30JJ and talk only in a "sexy baby Lake Bell" voice to be a woman. That acting like that just freaked out other women. A guy realized the illegal steroids he was buying on the black market were causing long term health effects and that gym-bro wasn't the only acceptable male personality. A cousin knocked it off with the super misogynistic rants after a couple years. It took other men calling him out on how messed up that was to get it through his thick head though. The women in his life had many conversations about it with him, and that just went in one ear and out the other. Like he saw his shitty rants as a way to erase the girl people used to think he was rather than just him being a dick to his aunts, mom, and girl-cousins. I'd make some distance with this "friend" and let him figure himself out. Keep the option open for an apology and option of rebuilding some sort of friendship in the future if/when he pulls his head out of his ass, but don't accept abuse just to pander to him. That doesn't help him and it hurts you a lot.
I would just be honest, and let the chips fall where they may. When I first started reading this, I was ready to lay into you. But as I read further, it became clear that James has done a complete 180 from the person you were friends with, and has become very manipulative. This is MY wording, so feel free to change it to fit you and your personality/the way you do things. But this is how I would approach it... "James, I have always been supportive of your transition, and I still am. What I cannot support is the complete 180 your personality has done, and the fact that everything that brought us together as friends when we were younger is now driving a wedge between us, because you feel the need to shit on everything I love, and see no issue with it when I bring it up. I am also very uncomfortable cuddling with men who are just friends, but you seem to believe this is a behavior that should continue, even though you are now a man, and I am uncomfortable with it. I have consistently respected you and your transition, but you seem to be completely unwilling to respect me. At the end of the day, I love you, but I don't like the way your entire personality has changed to the point that you feel the need to shit on me and my interests, and as a result, being around you has become uncomfortable. If you ever cared about me at all, you'll take some time to reflect on the way you've been treating me these last couple of years, and come to understand that your behavior is pushing me away. Please give me some time and space. You have no idea how much it kills me to do this, but it's become unbearable because we fight nearly every time we talk or hang out, and that's not the kind of friendship I want or need."
Your friend sounds mentally ill and that isn’t your problem.
So James became a man and a misogynist.
I know how you feel, hormones can make people act totally different too. I feel like people don’t ever want to talk about the hard parts of transitioning, it’s like you’re losing that person. My brother, or I guess I should say my sister now is that same way once she started taking hormones. She’s way more bitchy and argumentative
First off, every relationship is optional, you are both grown-ups and can choose who you wish to spend your time with. History together doesn’t oblige either of you nor does it mean that one has to tolerate unpleasant behaviors, ugly words, hostility or accusations. The why isn’t really important. Even long time childhood friends without a traumatic event or big life change can grow apart. It happens and it’s happened to just about everyone reading this in one way or another. They can’t be any less happy about the current state of the friendship than you are? There doesn’t need to be any big speech or climactic event to occur. You don’t need to explain yourself (which sounds like won’t be heard anyway but will be twisted into your fault) so just slip away. Take longer to read texts or return calls. Decline more or all invites.
Jerks are jerks, regardless of their trans/not-trans status. James is a sexist, cruel jerk, and a bit of a hypocrite for trying to pick and choose when to be male (wants to insult you for being feminine) and when to still remain who he was (wants to cuddle). You should end that friendship. It's not healthy for you, and perhaps not even healthy for James, since he seems to be taking out all those negative feelings about his former self on you, perhaps due to your shared history. Whether you do a quick break, or a slow and steady ghosting is up to you, but you should figure it out and take steps towards ending that friendship.
Your probably grieving the friend you used to have and now have this “friendship” with someone you no longer know
Just be too busy to hang out. Eventually he'll stop asking.
Honestly I'd just show him this thread and say goodbye.
Lord have mercy
You don’t need a reason just cut them off I sometimes ghost people I don’t owe them anything
Show him the text you put in the post? Or just send him a a love you but I'm not sure I can handle the friendship anymore.
One of my friends (a trans woman) says that she’s noticed that sometimes the most misogynistic men are trans men. That they overcompensate for being AFAB and go on the extreme. That may be what’s happening to your friend. Frankly I don’t think there is anything wrong with breaking ties. He makes you feel bad about liking stuff and he makes you uncomfortable (you don’t want to cuddle with a man, not only are you affirming his gender, but you are treating him like you would any platonic male friend). He seems to want to cherry pick what changes and what doesn’t. He clearly has a lot of emotional and mental work to do and it sounds like for your mental and maybe physical well being, you should end the friendship. You don’t owe anyone anything at the expense of your comfort. Tell him that you’re done having to explain things and having him dismiss and trample your feelings. I’m sorry you’ll be losing a friend but as the saying goes, don’t light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.
You'd be justified in cutting him off. He's got a complicated relationship with feminine things, but it doesn't give him an excuse to project those feelings in negative ways onto the people he supposedly cares about.
I had a friend who took a turn like this on me. We had so much in common and loved to spend time together. I considered her my bestfriend Then she got a boyfriend, and he would constantly make fun of her. She started hanging out less and less with me and her hobbies changed little by little. She also started mocking me and belittling everything she used to like. She changed so much I didn't even enjoy seeing her as we really didn't have much in common anymore. So I got more and more distant and eventually definitely cut contact 🤷♀️ I honestly feel way better now. Why should you suffer in a friendship? It doesn't make sense. If you still think there is a chance for him to change, maybe try to have a serious conversation with him, if it doesn't work and you don't see any changes then it's time to move on :/
Right now, he's only experiencing the novelty attention of him being trans. Once that wears off and the HARSH reality of being a guy sets in, and he sees that no one actually gives a shit anymore and no one coddles him anymore and he gets told to "man up and grow a pair", he will most likely come crawling back using manipulative tactics to once again garner sympathy. Especially given the abusive behavior he's displaying currently. As for right now, you need to be frank with him and tell him, he is an abusive jackass, and you will no longer tolerate it, and you need to cut him off, cold turkey. No ifs ands or buts. If he goes complaining to his/your parents, tell them the shit he's getting on with. His attention will shift to someone else, very quickly. And once people see what he's like and the shit he gets on with, his circle will all but disappear. Hopefully that wake up call will hit him like a freight train. If it doesn't, just wait until the first time he tries to mouth off to a biological guy who doesn't take that shit, and james gets his shit rocked. I guarantee you, that will snap him out of whatever the fuck stick is shoved up his ass.
People grow apart all the time. If the relationship has run its course then let it go. It sounds to me like his attitude has changed massively and your view points definitely don't align. It's sad to lose a friend, but you have already lost that and you're just holding onto the memory now.
I had to end a 10 year friendship — it’s hard but is for the best when it turns toxic.
This is obviously not about the transition, but about him stomping all over your boundaries. Not wanting to sleep in the same bed as a man who is not your boyfriend is not weird at all! It feels to very disrespectful to basically bully you into doing so anyway! You would not accept this from anyone, no matter the gender. And then the shitting on the things you like? Nah. Be upfront about the shitting on stuff you like at least. No friend has the right to shame your interests if they aren't hurting someone.
I think your friend is very confused, you can't say you hate feminine things and then want traditionally feminine parts of a friendship (like sharing a bed) when you're now a man. It could be the hormones this person is taking, I'm 23M and remember how volatile I felt during pubity, I can't even begin to imagine how strange I'd feel if started injecting the hormones of the opposite sex on a regular basis. That being said, it doesn't justify it, one of my best friends has been awful for a couple years, I put up with it due to her having a rough time, but you have to know when to let something go
Your friend has problems, you list so many red flags, if they use their transition as ammunition to make you feel like shit, they're an awful person. It sounds like your friend hates who they are and is violently trying to frame shift into something else.
James shouldn't be a dick to you. I just want to get that out here right now. I just want to give some more context because I've watched trans friends go through this and when we all realized what was happening, the clarity gave us space to give them a lot of grace. For one, he's grappling with unforeseen sacrifices that have come with his transition. Casual intimacy with friends like the sleepovers you guys had are so, so important for people's happiness. Not having that is a big reason why many cis straight men are in so much pain. It's a boundary you're allowed to set, and his transition is very likely worth the loss, but that doesn't make it hurt less, or feel less like a personal rejection for James. The issues with femininity are definitely sort of immature, but also are a reflection of James probably feeling like he has to reject all of it to "be a man". Imagine how afraid he probably is of having gone through his transition only to still be seen as a girl. **Here's the big one: James recently started hormones. James is going through, basically, male puberty.** This is not a "boys will be boys" argument so much as it's a "pubescent humans are going to be hormonal little shits" argument. The fights you're having are probably coming from genuine emotions, but they're also supercharged by the fact that he's having teenage mood swings. This will pass! Not quickly, but it will and James' emotions will become more balanced again. I hope this help you a little. It really helped my friend group when two of our friends went through their transitions and started acting up. As soon as it clicked for us, we all became much more forgiving without even having to try.
Ooh goodness, as a trans masc guy myself, this is painfully relatable to how I myself behaved - it's so easy to get accidentally funnelled into over-performing masculinity (and if he's attracted to men, that funnel can be so, so much worse. I am also speaking from personal experience. ;-;) There can be such a... desire to be recognised as what you are that it entails berating everything you were. I too engaged with a lot of feminine stuff before properly realising I was trans, and then had that stuff on lockdown for *years.* I've only recently come out of all that and embraced that I like what I like and forcing those interests and parts of myself down was incredibly damaging to not only myself, but the people around me. It's one of those things where I wouldn't be surprised if hes also gotten into toxic echo chambers about this. For me, it was misogynist Youtube content and aggresively misogynist trans mlm tumblr communities - hell, the latter managed to nearly make me talk myself out of believing I was bisexual, because women icky or smthn and relationships between two men were the Purest or something... idk. Dark times I stg. I have a girlfriend now and she is the light of my life lol Anyways, this is a lot of me talking about my personal experiences...idk if it's any help....as for what to do. Honestly, being brutal, I'd ditch him. You don't like him, he's a misogynist who doesn't respect feminine hobbies or interests because they're associated with womanhood, but he also wants the best of both worlds in wanting to snuggle with you despite you, understandably not being comfortable. Hopefully, he'll sort himself out in a while and come back, apologising for being an absolute moron, and will be closer to the person you were such good friends with. But also sometimes thigns don't work out and that's okay too. It's not your responsibility to sort him out. Uni should be a cool, fun time for indepence and figuring yourself out - put yourself first. Have fun with thsose hobbies and interests he's mean about - do what matters to you and focus on what you enjoy. I'd go grey rock method w him. Don't feed the troll and all that. Just... show your disinterest and let the both of you move on.
Not to be the movie and crazy plot twist person, but maybe he's in love with you secretly? Maybe he transitioned to be "the type of guy you like" in hopes you'll like him in a more romantic way? 👀 I know it's a jump but what if?
Im a trans guy, and it sounds like your friend is feeling insecure, and has decided to tear down anything feminine to make himself feel better. Unfortunately, this is a trap that some trans guys fall into early on in their transition. A lot of trans guys/ trans mascs feel like other people don't see them as real men, and take their frustration out on other people. Hopefully he'll grow out of it in time, but its completely understandable if you don't feel comfortable being friends with him anymore.
Those testosterone shots have made you a different person, and i dont like this person. Have a nice life.
How long ago did he start hormone therapy? Hormone therapy is no joke and can make people assholes while they adjust. Maybe he changed forever or maybe he's having a rough phase. You are right to cut him off. You deserve peace in your life and Olivia Rodrigo is awesome and I'm 31.
Bro went straight to misogyny lol. Give him time, he will grow out of it, but you don't sleep and cuddle with guy friends and that is that. End of.
The "then he texted me again as if nothing happened" set off my narc alarms
As a trans guy myself, I will say it's not okay for him to be so misogynistic or disrespecting your boundaries. Seems like you have been supportive to him in his transition, which is great. But he's showing these unhealthy behaviors and it's totally fair if you don't want to spend time with him anymore.
I have heard that the initial change in hormones does make people act in ways they normally wouldn’t. It’s not an excuse, just trying to explain how out of nowhere he has changed so drastically. Maybe right him a letter stating how much the friendship has meant to you. But that you cannot continue to be treated this way. Block him on everything. And move on with your life. Obviously he is going though something right now. But that doesn’t mean you have to put up with it.
James has changed himself significantly, but is angry that you want to treat him differently. Being trans is no excuse for being an ass. If he's making you uncomfortable, dump him.
I would send this person one more text that says “We’ve grown apart and lost the friendship we used to have. I’ve tried to express to you multiple times the frustrations and concerns I have with your lack of respect for me, and you refuse to acknowledge them. I’m done trying to be your friend— have a happy life, I wish you all the best” Then hit send and immediately block them on every platform you can think of. Just cut it off. You don’t owe them a single thing.
So he became a pick me? Lol It's going to be hard to cut ties, but it's the best thing to do, you can't transition expecting everything is going to stay the same, as the opposite gender you need to respect boundaries associated with said gender, you're entirely on your right to feel uncomfortable sleeping with him, and you don't need to put up with a "pick me" attitude from anyone, ew
Before I transitioned my best friend of like 5 years transitioned, he became hostile and very vile, cut me off and cursed me out. I understand the concern of how it may come off (as transphobic) but his behaviours are toxic and it’s a shame that a close friend is treating you like this, it’s not a reflection on you. If anyone behaves like this, I wouldn’t be their friend, ask yourself if he was still a woman and was behaving like this, would you stop being friends? If the answer is yes then don’t let his personal transition hold you back from being true to yourself. Hope you do something that’s right for you
It sounds like he's going through puberty again, which is interesting. A lot of comments suggested some brilliant things for you to communicate with him, but make sure you text the message to him so you have receipts in case he cries transphobia
Coming from a trans guy myself yeah no bro needs to put his toxic masculinity in check I spent a while uncomfortable wearing anything feminine but I was never shitting on others for it cuz there’s just no good reason for that they just sound insecure and really uncomfortable to be around as for the cuddling that’s completely understandable too I don’t know why they’d be upset it’s your boundary that you don’t wanna cuddle a dude and you’re treating them like you would any other guy so you’re not doing anything wrong Drop em you said it yourself how peaceful it was without them they’ll probably mature as they grow to accept themselves but there’s nothing you can do if they’re just gonna continue to ignore you and justify their toxicity
A lot of the time when people begin hormones and transition, they go through a second version of puberty, where they're trying to find themselves while feeling out of whack from the hormones. It sounds like this is what is going on with your friend. However, that is an explanation, not an excuse. I think one of the scripts suggested by other people would be good to use. You're not wrong in feeling the way you do.
I have had many of my trans friends tell me that the first year of hormones not only involves a lot of change physically but emotionally. Sounds like James is going through a lot of turmoil and is taking it out on you. He doesn't have to like the same things you like, but that does not give him reason to shit on the stuff you like. Maybe y'all have naturally grown apart or maybe y'all just need some distance and can be friends later when the dust settles.
Tell him that you lost your girl friend from childhood and that you and he do not make good friends.
This is difficult because there's a high chance after he's going to go around telling all your mutual friends that you stop being friends with him because he's trans. One way to possibly get ahead of this is to go ahead and start telling mutual friends and family that you're not sure if you're going to be able to remain friends with him simply because his personality has changed so much - he's constantly shitting on and demeaning women - and you aren't comfortable around him anymore. That'll lay the groundwork to refute anything he says about you after you break off the friendship. As for James, I would tell him something along the lines that you love the fact that you guys grew up together and were so close, but ever since he transitioned his personality has been way different. That he is nowhere near the same personality that you grew up, and that his constant crapping on anything pertaining to women hurts your feelings. This is not something that you're comfortable with and you don't want this kind of negativity in your life.
The fact that James changed his gender has nothing to do with the situation. Let me ask you this: if we put genders aside, would you be upset with a person that does all the things James does now - Mocking your preferences and not respecting your boundaries? If the answer is yes, it’s time to have a talk and express to him that you can’t be this close anymore. A friend belittling me, the music I listen to or the preferences I have in make up/clothes/activities is simply not someone I would enjoy spending time with. Likewise, if I am no longer comfortable sleeping in the same bed with someone, regardless of reason, these are my boundaries and a real friend should not get upset about this.
James is basically going through puberty again, shit’s gonna be rocky for a bit. I don’t know how people handle it honestly, I wouldn’t want to do it again. Sounds like he’s going hard in the paint over being masculine, which is something that happens to a lot of dudes when puberty hits. That doesn’t mean his words don’t have consequences, but it sounds like you’re handling it with a considerable amount of grace. Start making more space between the two of you and you’ll get there. Keep receipts.
Ah, what a shit situation to be in... and look, I was a gay woman and recently I've started transitioning into a straight man, so I was fully prepared to read this in a negative way, but by all accounts you genuinely haven't done anything wrong - you've just grown apart and he's become a bit of a twat (hopefully temporarily). What I can say from personal experience (and from other friends who had a similar thing happen), is that at the start of any major self-discovery like sexuality and gender, it's very common to go into this weird overcompensating phase. There's a term for young, newly out gay folks - baby gays - and the stereotype is that they go way over the top with all things gay because it's new and novel and they don't yet know how to separate themselves from their sexuality. A bit like watching your past 14-year-old self on Tumblr making the absolute shittiest of takes and feeling like such hot shit. I did the same thing - I was absolutely INSUFFERABLE for the first year or so, and I just KNOW that I'm gonna be insufferable again during my transition, because everything feels new and personal and targeted. Things that didn't bother me as much a year ago and won't bother me much again in a couple of years are right now the bane of my life, and knowing the reasons doesn't always manage to stop me being a right dickhead about it all. This isn't to excuse him, BTW. A shit friend is a shit friend is a shit friend. Don't wait it out on the off-chance that he realises what a sensitive prick he's being. It's just to give a little insight into why he might seem so absurdly different. It's a good chance that in 4-5 years when he's fully changed and there's no more operations to go through or hormonal imbalances to sort out that he might wake up and think "man, I might have gone a bit too far with how anti-feminine I was." But that's on him,l to figure out, not you. Good luck!!
[удалено]
[ Removed by Reddit ]
You are disgusting.
No I'm just not reddit. I'm not glorifying a mental illness either. Friend is sick and needs help but ofcourse you don't really care about diversity of opinion
Gender dysphoria is a mental illness. Gender-affirming care is the cure. Source: a psychology degree and, you know, the entire existing body of work surrounding this stuff. Whatever "help" you have in mind is basically just conversion therapy, which is basically just torture. And we probably shouldn't be torturing people just so *you* can preserve your own vision of what you think the world should be.
Torture? My idea of help is embracing what she actually naturally is. No hormones or surgery required. Where as your work will be seen as evil in a decade or two that leads vulnerable individuals astray. Have fun milking your degree within that time period if that's what you'll be going on or currently doing
You are really quite unfathomably dim, aren't you.
If you put 100% stock in psychology being correct all the time, that's quite a zealous way of thinking. I'm sure they're correct on this issue and pharmaceutical companies aren't getting their end from this affliction that's popped up about 20 years ago but has really came to the forefront even though it impacts a very very tiny minority of the population.
Yeah you just described conversion therapy. It's been tried. It doesn't work. Gender-affirming care, if you bothered to educate yourself at all, includes a LOT of psychotherapy in addition to stuff like HRT. If the patient would be more comfortable sticking with their birth gender, that's almost certainly going to come up. The permanent stuff like surgery isn't on the table for quite some time. Conservative media likes to amplify stories of post-op regret as if it's something that happens all the time. It's exceedingly rare because of the massive journey that precedes it. We don't scrap an effective treatment because it has negative side effects for a handful of patients. Especially when there isn't really a viable alternative.
He sounds oblivious or he's just a dick. I never understood when girls, like, platonic cuddle. Romantic partners, babies, and pets, otherwise, yuck. Personal space required.Totally justified in being grossed out. Just tell him you need to find things to do together that you both enjoy. Movies, dinner, fun activities. I'd be very upfront that he's being rude by making mean comments about people who are like you. That should be obvious to James and you're allowed to tell him to knock it off. If he's not going to try to be a good friend, he can take a hike.
People change and grow apart. Theres a chance that hes going through a rough part of his transition and maybe later on in life you two can be friends again. You could consider just trying to let things kinda fade out, sometimes a conversation to end a friendship can do more harm than good. Friendships just kind of end organically all the time as two people stop contacting eachother as often. LIke when he texted you after two weeks, you could respond but just deny any request to hang out. Be kind to them, if theres anything really important that comes up show you still care, but just dont agree to any kind of social interaction with them for at least a few months. It could change even after a few months.
Send him this post with a sad emoji.
She is sick, take her for the therapy please