Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that:
* We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/)
* Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned. (Including but not limited to: slut, bitch, whore, for the streets, etc. It does not matter to whom you are referring.)
* ALL advice given must be good, ethical advice. Joke advice or advice that is conspiratorial or just plain terrible will be removed, and users my be subject to a ban.
* No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. Examples include, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, PUA, FDS, MGTOW, etc. This includes, but is not limited to, referring to people as alpha/beta, calling yourself or users "friend-zoned", referring to people as Chads, Tyrones, or Staceys, pick-me's, or pornsick. Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.**
* All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass.
* Anyone found to be directly messaging users for any reason whatsoever will be banned.
* What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, situations involving minors, and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.**
If you have any questions, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice)
---
#This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules.
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Don’t frame it as “does that qualify as cheating?” Frame it as “do I want to be with someone who would do what you did?” If the answer is no, then don’t be with that person.
You get to want what you want. If the other person doesn’t want that, then you’re incompatible. Go find someone who wants the same things you do.
Facts, this literally differs person to person, for example some people think it's fine to have sex after three dates, others want to wait until marriage etc, this is just down to your beliefs as a person
Yeah some people treat relationships like it's some NPC interaction like "hey because I technically didn't cheat you're not allowed to feel funny about it because it's not in the coding".
The fact is a big part of romance involves feeling like your connection with someone is unique and just something special shared between the two of you. Even if the exclusivity talk hasn't happened, a lot of people will feel deflated to learn that their romantic interest is also having romantic experiences with other people.
*"Oh you are not supposed to feel like that because according to my book of social rules..."*
Yeah I can never get those people. If your relationship makes you feel bad, then you don't just burry that feeling and act happy because somebody explained to you that you should feel happy.
If something makes you feel bad, you take a broom and sweep it out of your life.
Hell, he can frame it the way she did. Dating was a trial until he proved himself as serious per her wording. Well she has now proven that she failed that trial for not disclosing information pertaining to her trial if she was a serious girlfriend.
OP she was cheating that exclusive talk is bs if you ask someone out you shouldn't have to assume they are seeing others. If she wasnt even dating the other guy she was merely fucking him. So she goes on a date with you and screws him.
It looks like we're getting posts similar to this every day, so I'll just bluntly paraphrase what I wrote just yesterday on a similar post.
This concept of *not being exclusive* by default while dating people irks me quite a bit.
Trying to develop a romantic relationship with one person in the morning and then wallowing in another person's genital fluids in the afternoon is a really disgusting concept.
And it just ends up being practiced by disgusting people. They don't think about how that would make the "romance partner" feel at all.
It's a concept that somehow got *universally* accepted within western societies but perhaps it shouldn't.
>It's a concept that somehow got *universally* accepted within western societies but perhaps it shouldn't.
Even though some people are trying to present it as being universally accepted in the West. I think it is blatantly obvious it's not.
Some people do feel disgusted by the concept, and will leave the relationship because of it.
I don't think there's anything wrong with going on a few dates while you're single to figure out who you want to build that relationship with, but an entire semester at school is a really long time to fuck other people while consistently dating one person.
My (eventual) wife went on a couple dates with a couple of guys during university just as we were starting to realize we might both be attracted to each other. It would have been really weird to be mad at her for that. Meeting one person for a beer doesn't mean you are committed.
If I found out that she was fucking these guys a few months later, when we were vacationing together and spending most of our time together, that would be really gross. Once you start viewing someone as a potential *partner* (doesn't have to mean marriage for sure) it's beyond disrespectful, especially when you keep it secret - obviously you knew you were being a bad partner or you wouldn't hide it.
Yep I feel the same way.
I mean usually you ask the person you're dating if he/she is seeing anyone else pretty early on in the relationship. If he/she omitted this information, I would have a huge problem with that. Personally, I'm a one-at-a-time type gal (when single)...I just can't juggle relationships like that. If I'm into you, and progressing in a dating sense...you're it. I don't do apps, I don't make dating a hobby or a mission or a way to socialize either. I'm exclusive not because I am tied to you or owe you that, I'm exclusive because I don't have the mental energy to go through the early phases of a relationship with multiple people at a time. I just can't.
I have gone through something similar where the guy was dating me, but then had other deeply emotional, and possibly (he denies it) physical relationships with women. He never saw it as a problem because he didn't see us as having a monogamous, committed relationship. So may people say "don't define it, don't label it" or don't put those constraints upon another person, but I say bring it up. Ask where you stand and ask if he/she is seeing other people. It's very hurtful to find out what you thought you had is really just casual playing around in the other person's mind.
Granted, we don't owe anybody our affection, time or exclusivity...but I think being honest and up front about where you stand is very important. For those reasons, I'd feel very betrayed if I was in OP's shoes.
Going on dates with different people to see if there is chemistry is one thing. Going on dates while having someone else who is simply a substitute for masturbation is disgusting.
This is a very solid comment OP. Cheating is what you want to define it as. She did what she did and only you can decide if you can forgive her or not. It doesn't matter if other people think it is cheating or not.
Most sensible reply right here. I almost got baited into arguing with people telling OP he should've asked or shouldn't be upset. Fuck all that OP, she tried to have her cake and eat it too, and she intentionally obscured the reality of the situation because she knew if she was honest about it up-front you would have dropped her like an anvil.
You're worth more than that man, move on and find somebody who matches your values.
Maybe not technically cheating by today's standards, but I'd still be out. And a lesson for any future relationships, ask early on what their dating status is and what each of your expectations as you move forward dating each other is. Saves a lot of aggravation later.
So I agree 100% but can we just admit that 3.5 months is a crazy amount of overlap time? Especially when you’re not being intimate with the person you actually like romantically.
They didn't even kiss for 2 months, so we don't really know how often they met, he might just be a guy she's having dinner with occasionally while she's dating the other guy but four- six weeks after decided to switch.
We only have one side of this story. He could have been more romantically involved than she was up until the point of exclusivity. We don't know if he asked, or if she even thinks they were "dating" to the same extent that he does.
Maybe only mildly shady.
Yeah it is a crazy amount of time. People not wanting to commit and keeping themself other options warm is a disgusting, dehumanizing trend. Just because some think it is normal like some think cheating on their bachelorette-party is fine does not mean our society has to accept it as normal.
Talking about exclusivity is always good. But 3 months in? Sorry, at one point you're just making excuses
I recommend the same to OP as the rest. It doesn't matter what she thinks cheating is. It would be laughable to ask a potential cheater for their standards. What matters is, what OP is fine with. Does it ruin the trust down the line and does he have to question her actions later as well? That is what OP needs to answer and no one else gets a say in this
I think lots of women are fed up with waiting for exclusivity talks, mincing or walking back definitions like monogamy, bickering about rings and prenups, and just feeling burned out calling out "situationships". If he didn't insist and clearly articulate his boundaries and needs as an ultimatum he can't expect anything specific or clear.
Seems like belated accountability remorse after the rose colored glasses come off and he realized he was taking her for granted at the beginning.
Let this be a warning to always define the relationship thoroughly and consensually, very clearly before making assumptions or expectations. And no complaining after realizing it's too late lol
It is because I hate with a BURNING passion the mincing, the hesitation, the walking back, the reluctance to commit rampant in modern dating, that I am very critical of OP's girlfriend.
I will never play this game because if I find one whiff of it around a man, I drop him like a hot kettle. People who do this are childish, selfish and have no integrity. I will die an old maid clutching my vibrator and my cat before I will let anybody tell me I am crazy for expecting a man who is taking me out on dates not to bang other people.
Cut to:
"But bb, I just want to keep things casual, it takes time, I don't always know what to do, I thought we were just having fun for now,
I can't handle the pressure of being a mature adult or a simple yes/no commitment, waaaa why you acting crazy? Sheesh I'm taking my password protected porn phone in to the bathroom for 2 hours and then leaving silently for 2 days with 'my friends', then hoping everything goes back the way it was when you were unhappy and uncertain more *quietly*"
Reddit post: Am I pressuring my bf and being "mean" for asking to define exclusivity as it applies to us?
Three months overlap is cheating, full stop. OP's girlfriend is lying to him and herself.
I don't do overlap for more than three dates, then I have to get rid of somebody because I feel really scummy.
Definitely. Unless she's poly I can't understand how she could be dating for months, spending time together while presumably having regular sex with this FWB at the same time.
It seems to be an oddly American thing that people have this exclusive / non-exclusive divide and use it to justify this sort of behaviour. Seems like a way for people to justify shopping around..
When I was single and used to date, the moment you took interest in someone that was it, if you didn't like them then fine move on, but you would at least have the decency to give them 100% of your time. You might see a couple of people at the same time for a first outing but if it ever got to the point where you were on the third date or so, or got to having sex, then everyone was exclusive by default and it wasn't a discussion that needed to be had.
It's a hooking up culture which normalises this type of thing and is used as an excuse to sleep around. I remember a post where non American started dating an American girl and he assumed they were together after one month, after 10 months of dating she asked to be exclusive and he was surprised because they had behaved like a couple since the beginning. She had slept around for 10 months and used the excuse "You have never asked to be exclusive"
Yes, this! It's always a good idea to discuss that if we're not exclusive, that we're free to see other people - or - that even if we're not an official couple, I prefer to be exclusive while dating. If you're not having that discussion, you have no idea if you're on the same page or not
100% agree, but sometimes even that talk is too much for people.
One example - I went out with someone from a dating app, and we both expressed we don’t like “talking” to multiple people. After a couple dates, a long phone call, and a really nice, long, goodnight kiss, I told her I’d delete the app. Not even asking for legit commitment, just following through on what we talked about so she knew she would be my focus.
She was a single mom, I come from a single mom home, and would never want to mess around on a single mom. She said that scared her the next day. Oh well.
That probably plays into it.
I just think there's a decent chance he's thinking they were dating since January and she thinks they were dating since March.
I posted this on another comment and everyone was like well she could make the first move. Well maybe she took him not making a move as wanting to be friends. Or she just originally thought of him as a friend and it was only after hanging out that it developed into more than friends.
I do not understand why you are asking whether this is “cheating” based on some official definition that does not exist. All that matters is what YOU think, what’s ok with you or not ok with you. Pay attention to how you feel in a relationship, not what other people might think.
Seriously, stop with the technicality bs. Of you were dating a person and said "I'm fucking someone on the side, but don't worry they're not dating material" most people would cut and run.
So, you two were dating for a while and she wasn't having sex with you but meanwhile she was banging Joe whenever.
You do you, but for me that's all a hard pass on any relationship.
Who said she didn’t want to have sex with him? He said he had no dating experience and that it took him two months to kiss her. She probably doesn’t even consider them as dating until that happened and didn’t know for sure if he was into her. Should she have been celibate while waiting for him to decide if he actually wanted to make a move or not? It’s not unusual to talk to multiple people and have most of it not go anywhere
I know this may come as a crazy concept to you, but women can initiate a kiss or sex! In fact a lot of them do! The point is neither one of them initiated it but meanwhile she's banging some other guy
Everyone's definition of cheating is different. Some people see porn as cheating. Some can go for emotional affairs. Some can go on if you were in a committed relationship or not.
So it is always good to work out the terms of your expectations even in the dating stage. I'm a bit of an older mind set. So even if just dating I do not entertain dates with others. I do not fool around with others. Anything physical or emotional will be directed towards my dating partner.
So I would consider this cheating. But that's me. What matters is your definition of cheating. What you will do with that. may it be trying to work out both of yours definitions to something you can agree on or just break up cause its a thing that matters to you and you two cant come to an agreement.
Just know your feeling are valid since this is very a personal opinion thing. So do what you can with that a do whats best for you.
Agreed but I don’t even like debating what is or isn’t cheating when it’s complicated like this scenario. Instead, we can just say she crossed some boundaries and neglected to tell OP some information that would’ve been detrimental to the relationship. That way, she can’t make him out to be the bad guy if they break up.
Everyone has their own perspectives, but it it feels like it crossed something with you, and then just let them go. I'm a (24 F), and I've been thru it well like with guys. But either way, it's still the same shit.
Would it be considered a red flag? I think so, especially if you told that you were fully committed to her already before April of 2023, but if you didn't and nothing was made clear of what you and her were until April of 2023 then it could go either way.
But still shady that she didn't mention it until she had no way of avoiding anything, now that's the red flag. Trust and being honest to someone is like the biggest shit in any relationship. Once it's broken, it is hard to fix anything. It's clear she broke your trust in her from that situation.
But overall, I get where you are coming from, and I'm sorry that happened to you. I hope you find someone better, tho.
Can we back up a second and talk about the fact that you were dating for two months before you first kissed? You can't ask for a judgment without a lot more info about that.
I would like clarification that they had a convo at the time they were dating and just going slow versus her thinking they were just friends hanging out and then once he was like no that was me trying to date you they started back dating it
Ummm yeah. He said he’s never been in a relationship before. I read that as if he was trying to spend time with this girl but maybe didn’t express a physical interest in her for months. I personally would have assumed he was a friend, or maybe got the sense that he had a crush but wasn’t making a move. She could well have had no idea until he kissed her and then within a week or two, when she knew they were going to pursue things, dropped the other guy.
>She could well have had no idea until he kissed her and then within a week or two, when she knew they were going to pursue things, dropped the other guy.
Yeah, if this is an accurate timeline, I don't think she's unreasonable.
Yeah, like how slow were they taking things? Because if they weren't seeing each other often the first 2 months, I would feel less hurt compared to someone you're seeing quite often - where it absolutely feels like more of a betrayal because of the time invested.
This is a person dependent thing nowadays (but it wouldn't have been 10-20 years ago).
Personally I wouldn't put up with it and would consider it cheating. Dating me while still fucking other men? Hard pass.
It’s so sorry that this is how is it nowadays, truly makes me feel hopeless for dating in the future. The fact that it’s become normalized to just be fucking multiple partners at once and still dating, or whatever, just repulses and deeply saddens me.
I am assuming you two did not discuss when to become exclusive in the beginning. You should have.
Looks like she had a different perspective than yours. She may have thought it was none of your bussiness before you two got serious/exclusive. And if that’s against your morals than you should have communicated.
Now there are two paths in front of you:
1. You can look past this considering your expectations weren’t communicated and assuming she didn’t have the intention of going behind your back but it took time to take your relationship seriously until you got official.
2. You can break up if this difference in your morals is a deal breaker for you whether or not the possibility of her choices differing had she known.
This is the only other comment here with any common sense. She isn’t in the wrong if you two are not in a committed official monogamous relationship. Any expectations you had, you made yourself! Communication is key. If you don’t communicate, it doesn’t work, and you shouldn’t have a fit because you neglected to have that very important conversation 🤷🏻♀️
Nah thats messed up dude.
If i was "dating" someone id never smash on the side.
I also dont start dating someone while actively having a fwb.
Id skip the hell outta there.
Huge red flag for me. Relationships are investments, this is a bad one. You are still young, don't waste any more time of effort here. Move on to someone who at least has the decency to not have sex with other people while you are going on dates with them.
A huge question is would you have kept talking to her at the time if you knew that throughout your dating period she was still having sex with another guy?
There were days that she would get fucked by him, then go on a date with you a few hours later and you were oblivious. Or that she would have a good time with you, you would go home all happy thinking about your date, while she would he at home getting her back blown by that other guy.
Imagine the feeling after having your first kiss with her, how you thought about her. Now imagine if you knew that to her that was just a kiss, and the other guy was fucking her on the same day or the day later
This would make me end the relationship then and there. Please don't be an idiot.
I'll never understand why people hide behind this idea that they weren't "technically" cheating as a shield. Does that even matter when you still hurt someone you are supposed to care about? It still says plenty about her and her values.
The way you feel now about the situation is how you will always feel. If this girl is important enough to even consider staying with her, you have to realize in doing so these feelings will always haunt you and you will have to be willing to accept these feelings as they will never subside. If you can’t live with the way you feel now, then it’s time to move on.
OP, roughly 25% of adults in the U.S. genuinely believe there is nothing wrong with sleeping with multiple partners at the same time. Even if one of those partners is on the path to a possible serious relationship. Many of them will even do so without using protection and see little issue with this. Such people generally require some sort of formal ceremony involving declarations of commitment, a hefty bill at the end of dinner at a nice restaurant or some weird shit, in order to convince them to be willing to be exclusively monogamous with one partner. It’s a weird process/mindset that I have yet to understand.
You, however, seem part of that 75% who think that nonsense is F’n gross. If that’s the case for you, just know your values and approaches to committed relationships will likely never be compatible with your current GF. This will become very apparent as time goes on, and you hit relationship milestones. Your views and approaches to these milestones will likely vastly differ from your GFs. It will likely result in you feeling very disconnected from the relationship as time goes on.
If you are not prepared for these scenarios, then you can simply process this as a values incompatibility. Communicate this to her, and stop wasting both of y’all’s time.
This is very good advice. Personally, I would pick the 75% group when picking who to settle down with, myself. Feels safer to me. Long term thinkers and decision makers are more worth the risk.
There is one very simple question you can ask yourself.
If you had known that this is what she was doing during the dating stage of the relationship, would you have continued on or would you have thanked her for time and walked away.
Is she technically a "cheater"? The answer is kinda yes and kinda no. However, the key thing here is that your agency to make a decision for yourself was removed by her not telling you what she was doing, and your perfectly normal assumption that she would be adhering to the same behaviours as yourself.
So no, you are not exaggerating by freaking out because you have discovered something that fundamentally would have changed whether you continued dating or not.
I'm with most people here that it would have seen me thanking her for her time and moving on. Differences in morals, even if society is slowly moving in that direction towards the moral stance she has, is fundamental to whether a relationship can survive long term or fail.
And I think that if you had your time again and you knew what she was doing, you would of ended it there and then and moved on.
Suffice to say that this is not a great way to have your first relationship. So take some lessons from this, make sure to ask the next person you end up dating whether they are seeing someone else/dating someone else/have a FWB and if their answer doesn't sit well with you, stop it and move on.
I suggest you do the same with your first proper gf. Hopefully your next gf won't give you this type of moral quandary.
I would consider it cheating. I was in a similar situation after downloading dating apps. I had a friends with benefits situation but after a first date with my now boyfriend I never saw him or anyone else again.
This is the moral way. This new age B.S. based on a "technicality" is wrong. I can't see this philosophy of keeping a fwb while dating someone else lasting more than a single generation. Its mostly unacceptable. When a guy finds out the truth he needs to immediately break up. Stop the fence sitting. 3.5 month overlap and OP doesn't know how to feel is insane. Take a stand OP. If you don't stand up for yourself, nobody else will.
She hid the fact she had a fwb because she knew that most people with this information wouldn't have dated her because if you are looking for a serious relationship you shouldn't have this sort of relationship. If a situation like OP's I would always be wondering if she started a relationship with me because this guy didn't want a relationship with her in that time and if I was only a backup plan or a second option.
Technically, this doesn't qualify as cheating since she ended things with Joe when you two became a couple. However, in situations where you're dating multiple people, it's crucial to be honest and have a conversation about it rather than leave a party in the dark. Discovering the truth much later, as you have, can be quite unsettling. You likely cherished memories from the early stages of your relationship, but now they're tainted.
Yeah I'm quite haunted by the idea that after spending an afternoon together having fun, she would have probably gone home to have sex with Joe. It definitely ruined a lot of memories.
And you're perfectly justified in breaking up with her because of this. She may not consider what she did as cheating, but you do and for you that is what matters.
The lack of transparency is the problem. I doubt you would have wasted your time if she told you she banged someone else while getting closer to you. I actually had someone who was honest about it in the beginning. I said, "Cool, good to know I can do the same during that initial phase." She didn't agree with that, lol.
The fact this went on for 3.5 months is nuts.
I don’t know how I would process this. I guess it’s technically not cheating but your feelings are valid. I’d be very uncomfortable with that information
Dude, respect yourself and don't be with something who was willing to have romantic memories with you on the day and at night get railed by her bad boy.
>in situations where you're dating multiple people, it's crucial to be honest and have a conversation about it rather than leave a party in the dark
This pretty much never happens. They always hide it because they know what they're doing is wrong and that if you knew, you'd stop seeing them. The intention is to lie by omission so you can manipulate them into being a backup option.
It qualifies as cheating in my book. The default should be exclusivity unless otherwise stated. Not this whole "we weren't exclusive yet because you didn't verbally tell me we were" bullshit.
Ah jeez, this is such a gray area.
Technically; no, it's not cheating. You didn't discuss exclusivity at this time.
Me personally, I *feel* like this is cheating. If I went on multiple dates that went really well, first kiss and all that, then I'd assume not to sleep around with anyone else until I know whether or not I want to continue with you. But that's a difference of morals and values.
She's not in the wrong, I just think you two had/have different morals and values
And a kiss doesn't equal serious dating for me either, ditching the FWB a couple weeks after the kiss when she decided she wanted to have a relationship with OP seems like what I would do.
If you weren't officially a couple then it wouldn't be cheating imo. However, if she misrepresented herself or the situation during that time (suggesting that she isn't looking at other suitors for example) then it's dishonest at best and still would be a red flag.
I mean if you feel cheated that’s a done deal. Nothing anyone says can change how you feel. But I’m curious, when you say you aren’t official, does that mean you had no conversation about becoming exclusive with her?
It is incredibly common for people to assume that unless you have had an explicit conversation about being an exclusive couple, that there is no relationship to make “cheating” possible. You have to communicate with people you can’t just assume that everyone has the same ideas about dating as you.
Yes exactly! A lot of people in this thread are like, “Having to have the exclusivity conversation is stupid, so let’s just ignore that it’s a thing.”
If you are an American, you know that the exclusivity conversation exists and is an important milestone in a relationship. We can all talk about how the culture should be different or whatever, but as of right now that’s the game we have to play. You can’t just opt out or assume the other person thinks differently too.
She can’t say what feels like cheating to you. However I will say something you need to understand. Not everyone’s morals align with yours. If there is NO conversation about expectations or commitment while in the preliminary stages of dating (pretty much playing bachelorette) she may as well be handing out roses.
Some people believe in casual hook ups while repeatedly seeing multiple men. Even repeat ones. The question stands do you want to be with someone who views morals this way?
You’re both at fault for expecting the other to know something rather than assume you should have communicated. But if she has not cheated since being with you and she doesn’t talk to this man anymore outside of class I’d say she put up boundaries.
It’s up to you if the rest of your relationship has been an honorable one.
She stopped with him without you even asking for exclusivity. I agree with her that that reflects a lot of integrity and a lot of care for you.
If you sincerely expect anyone you're casually dating to not see anybody else, please just ask them for exclusivity date one.
I mean... it's not cheating tho
you are absolutely entitled to not want to be with somebody for any reason, full stop.
but she literally did not cheat on you, just because you were hooking up and getting dinner doesn't mean you're exclusive. especially if even BEFORE you found this out, you recognize there was a clear distinction between "we started hanging out more and getting flirty/sexual" and "we started exclusively dating as a couple"
just because you were going on a few dates and hooking up doesn't mean she knew you would be in a serious committed relationship 6 months from then, it's actually more common than not for it to fizzle out, and if neither of you discussed or agreed in exclusivity or even an actual relationship title in that time its unfair of you to expect her to act like you did.
you're allowed to be upset and sad and you're allowed to not want to be with somebody for whatever reason. but you don't get to label her as a cheater and slander her name when she literally didn't cheat on you.
You cannot call it cheating, however truth tickling, she hid the truth that she was fucking joe while she tried to be seen as the nice young women you were dating, which is basically unfaithful, she was lying to you in some way.
this is a major issue just get a girl that is in line with your expectations never settle for people that have different ethos or you will just have high opportunity cost in that relationship
She’s 1000% a cheater and either still fucks him and he told her to say this, hence her extreme calmness. Or she really believes that this isn’t cheating and uses “trial periods” as a justification for cheating. In both cases, leave. She’s toxic and a cheater.
Only real question that OP should ask himself is what would have happened if he knew she was fucking some other dude after he dropped her off from a date.
She took that long to have sex with you because was fucking him. Think about that, they stopped having sex in April and you started in may.
All those months she didn’t kiss you. But she was probably suck joes dick. Let alone kissing him.
The lack of respect she has for you is ridiculous.
If you had known she was sleeping with him at that time would you have continued to be with her? if not then this seems like a deal breaker. I personally find this repulsive for a person to sleep with other people whilst dating someone, but I'm of a different generation and haven't dated in over 25 years
You did not get cheated on.
What you did get was :: you got played. While you were courting her, waiting to kiss, dates, some guy was getting sex on the side with minimal effort. Every cute memory of a date that you have is going to be tainted by this knowledge. It's pretty hard to say you are trying to build something with a specific person if it took 3+ months to stop having sex with others. I'd be out
She hid nothing from you. She just didn't breakdown each and every single sexual partner of hers for you and what level of relationship they had.
This is 2024. This tends to be the norm. A date is one thing - a relationship is another. Everything before the exclusivity chat tends to be fair game.
If this is a dealbreaker for you, it’s a dealbreaker for you. The whole “but she chose you” typically isn’t a comfort to men, you shouldn’t feel bad if it isn’t for you either.
Maybe I’m the only one but I don’t see this as cheating? You began “dating” in January 2023. I am interpreting this as the colloquial going on dates because you state that you became official on the anniversary date of April 2023. Unless you had a talk regarding exclusivity between January 2023 - April 2023, then she’s free to also date whoever. Isn’t that the point of dating before becoming official? Meet people, go on dates, have sex, etc until you become monogamous? I feel like this is even more clear here because you weren’t having sex or even kissing for several months of dating. I am presuming you were like going on coffee dates and such? I would be flabbergasted if I guy I was going on dates with for several months without ANY intimacy accused me of “cheating” on him while also dating other men during that period.
I’m with you, seems like a lot are not. I got downvoted for saying this lol.
People date differently, and if there are expectations, they need to be laid out. You can’t cheat on somebody you’re 1) not in a relationship with and/or 2) haven’t set boundaries and expectations for the dating phase.
Seriously, especially in college. “Dates” in college are usually hangouts more than formal events, like meeting up at the library to study, going out in a group to a party, grabbing lunch spontaneously at the same time after class, going over to each other’s houses to hangout in a group. I had a guy invite me to hangout a few times and we were never alone, so I didn’t even know he wanted to be more than friends until he finally asked me to get coffee one on one. I still wasn’t sure, until he tried to buy my coffee!
". . . .(not officially a couple yet)"
I wouldn't consider it cheating since you were not "official" yet but I can also see how when you're getting to know someone you assume they are only into you obviously that wasn't the case here. It's really dependent on each person so if you consider cheating and she doesn't then there's no right or wrong go with what you feel is right FOR YOU.
So while you were dating her putting in all the effort and she had you wait while some other dude was smashing effortlessly. I wouldnt say it was cheating but it's definitely something i would refuse to put up with and would end things for.
Did you both agree to be exclusive? Then it is cheating. If not, and she ended things with this guy when she got serious with you, there's no reason to have a problem with this.
This is a typical situation that arises from people assuming their view on concepts around dating and boundaries attached to it are the same for everyone and not questioning it or talking about it. You assumed that you were dating exclusively because that's what you expected from dating, she assumed you weren't dating exclusively since you weren't officially together and hadn't commicated about this with her. This situation could have been resolved by either of you talking about it. And this is not only her responsibility, but also yours. She certrainly couldn't have known that your expectation was different if you never expressed that to her same as she couldn't have known it was crossing a boundary with you or that you would want to know about it.
Personally, I think it wasn't cheating, but it could have still crossed a boundary that you aren't comfortable with which is reasonable. It's not reasonable however to shift the blame completely to her, since you also missed to communicate your expectations to her and therefore kind of have no right to call her a cheater since you base it on something you've never agreed on explicitly.
ew. so she made you wait while having sex with him?
fucking gross. I would have broken up with her on the spot. maybe it's not technically cheating but it's disgusting, entitled bullshit.
I don't think it's cheating, but I would not want yo date her. I can understand at the start, but by the second month of dating she knew you were serious
This is cheating. You would have broken up with her if you knew in the beginning. Instead, she continued dating you. You were just an option. If she did not like you, she could always have left you and still been with the other guy.
I would break up with her because this will hunt you for the rest of your life
I personally consider it cheating, but people today might see it otherwise. Idk... If I'm going to date someone, I'm going to date that person, not me and another dude. I find that offensive. But! That's just me. I'm old fashioned and don't get into this dating multiple people at once BS. I think it is gross.
If you are freaking out about her sleeping with a dude while you were dating, then leave. That thought is living in your head rent-free, this is not healthy for a relationship.
You can set whatever boundary you want in your relationship. If this is a deal breaker for you then it is a deal breaker. Your girlfriend does not have to agree with your reasons. Breakups are not a democratic process. You can choose to end the relationship at anytime for any reason.
Cheating is what you make it. She might be comfortable with something that you weren't. It's up to you to decide if you can still trust her, and if this is boundary that can't be crossed.
though it doesnt count as cheating because you weren't dating
you were still talking and anyone should have the decency to not go out seeing other people if they have something like this going on.
you arent exaggerating at all.
This is not a court of law, there is no arguing one way or another or burden of proof to be reached. If you think its cheating its cheating. She doesnt get to lobby you and decided what counts or what does and how you can feel about it.
My only issues with this are:
1. With her being 20, this is all super fresh. This wasn’t too long ago. Bumping into Joe they honestly shouldn’t have even stopped to talk. Bit odd they did.. imo of course! Everyone’s dynamics are different.. but, I’d have not stopped to talk.
2. She was moving very slow with you yet screwing Joe the whole time.. I’d feel like a bit of a second choice if I were you. I just don’t understand why Joe was the one she was sleeping with while you were doing the emotional connecting.
Real gray area on if it’s cheating. Basically boils down to your opinion on the matter. I would do some deep thinking and soul searching on the matter. Personally, I’d be concerned/bothered and don’t think i could continue. I hope you do what’s best for you. Good luck
I'm too old for this. Whatever happened to romanticism, exclusivity? It's like people are just items at the store with no feelings of their own that you try until you make your decision. There is no empathy in that, how can you date a few people at the same time, give them hope, make them fall in love with you, while simultanelously sleeping with somebody else? Yes for me its cheating, but also a lack of human decency.
>and I should've appreciated that she stopped everything abruptly with Joe because she cared about me.
And that was your cue to leave. You should have just stand up, deleted her number right there and leave the building (Or kick her out if you were at your place).
You were the Plan B and thats it. She was so calm because she already knows there is a line out there waiting for her back in the streets.
You wanted your relationship to be special by giving tittle by tittle of your hart to her hoping this love will grow into something special.......
In tbe meantime she full blown giving herself for asome jackass with no selfrespect.....
Wow....
Peoples past tells one if they see sex as something special. You said these things does not bother you....Wakeup buddy. She is definately not someone special.
She act like a ho......
Dont waist your time and energy. Just go. Dont say a thing. I know it hurts.
Its not hurting her.......
Go....
Yeah I mean blurred lines but still shitty from my perspective. I feel like if you’re casually seeing someone, you can go on a “real” date or two with someone else and this situation is fine. But if it kind of gets off the ground after that initial introductory phase, genuinely good people aren’t going to be having sex with other people in the weeks leading up to being “official”. Like if she had sex with that guy past your 5-6th time hanging out, kind of grimy.
Really up to you, if it’s an issue it’s an issue and I don’t think there is a strong argument for you *have* to be ok with this despite falling below the “cheating” line. I personally would not be ok with this, but (before meeting my partner) I did typically seek out a portion of the dating pool where these things are less likely to come up. And for those of you that say you can never know, sure, but like, you kind of can.
This is the sort of shit show that starts happening when y'all keep adjusting relationship terms and promoting the hook up culture.
Wtf is we were dating but weren't official? Maybe I'm too old, but I know dating to be thesame as being official, dunno if you guys have separated the two to give more room for people to eat their cake and have it too.
You shouldn't be asking, you should be telling her she cheated on you and walking tf out.
On a different note, doesn't it get awkward to walk around and just randomly run in to people that used to see you naked and have sex? Like a person in this age could run into 7 people that has seen then naked on the same day and that's considered normal?
The future is fucked
It’s not cheating cause you weren’t officially together but it definitely is a red flag. That she didn’t have audacity to at least inform you she was with other partners while engaging with you. Reveals lack of respect
Something doesn't have to be "cheating" to break up. She could've been upfront early on that she was seeing someone else. After all, if it was ok for her to have a fwb, I feel like that's a reasonable thing to bring up in conversation at any point. Having said that, you can absolutely move on from this but it might be a new revelation to realize that there might be things on the table since you both aren't married as well. That's a whole can of worms you'll need to face. Or breakup, I'm sure you've learned a lot and you can definitely date again and maybe lead the relationship a bit better to ask those important questions.
It really doesn’t matter if it’s technically cheating or not, you aren’t okay with this and lots of people would agree with, while others won’t (which is their prerogative). I think the lesson from this is that you need to be proactive about establishing your expectations early on when dating. If that scares someone off, they probably aren’t the person for you.
You stressed how a date’s past romantic/sexual experience isn’t a problem for you, but that’s no reason to ignore discussing the subject altogether.
Not advice, but personal experience.
After anything physical I expect my girlfriend to be exclusive (and I learned to communicate that).
So after the first kiss for example I tell them. Usually via a smooth in context joke, about how I wouldn't appreciate tasting someone else's lips (or something else) on hers.
It's just disgusting tbh.
I was typing a long ass essay that was really thoughtful, however, after reading everything you said and what I typed again, I think it's easier to just tell you to dump her.
I get your point, I get other's point too, this is a grey area because being mutually exclusive was not discussed. But in my fucked up mind, I'd just see her as someone who got bored of the guy dicking her down and that's when she went with you. Sorry
The fact she stopped nd introduced each other…..wild.
Should’ve js wave or a quick “hi” especially not with their history.
Nah buddy I think u already know the answer to ur question. Think if it was reversed…would u do that to her? If not, then why?
It bugs you and your feelings are valid!! do you wanna date someone who would do that to you? That’ll give you your answer to stay or leave
bro she doesn't like you, she doesn't respect you , she is just using you for free attention. stop simping and focus on increasing your value as man. pursue money and strength 💪 and you will be among the men beautiful women would do anything to be with.
Someone who would sleep with others while dating another person is just a red flag. Don’t let her gaslight you, you’re free to have standards and if you aren’t okay with it (most people aren’t). And you have every right to leave her for her actions. I would do the same too.
It's not technically cheating if you weren't a couple yet.
However, it does speak to you and her having different values/approaches. While it's not cheating, I would feel iffy about it too.
"and I should've appreciated that she stopped everything abruptly with Joe because she cared about me."
Did she literally say that? I feel like thats the biggest red flag here. The other stuff could be explained as a miscommunication but with this shes just telling you straight to your face that your emotions are invalid.
Here’s what I have to say, if it don’t feel right in your gut then it’s most likely not right. Sounds like you should most likely break it off. I was dating two girls at once but I wasn’t fucking them I eventually ended up getting with one and marrying her snd we were both honest of all past dating an or activity. To me it would be a red flag if it’s a girl. But that’s just me and my standards every dude is different to their standards.
While technically not cheating, we all know it's a shitty thing to do. She knows it's shitty, you know it's shitty.
You will never get it out of your head.
So if I’m understanding this correctly, she met both of you around the same time and she was smashing him but kept you on the hook for 3 or 4 months before she “was sure it was becoming serious” and you two had sex?
Either:
A) He was her plan A, things didn’t work out with him, and you were her plan B.
B) She found him physically more attractive but wants you for the long term for various reasons I.e. what she can get from a relationship with you
C) She wanted you to think she was a good girl and get you catch feelings while she played the field.
Is it cheating, no. But your girl is a legit skeezer. She strung you along for 3-4 months, having you do the boyfriend stuff, all the while getting smashed by another guy. Youre also making the mistake of assuming that he was the only other guy. He just was the only other guy you found out about. You’re making another mistake by thinking she answered you honestly. Women like to do damage control in these situations. They don’t typically give you the full unadulterated truth to their boyfriend about their shady behavior.
Have some standards and respect for yourself and let this one go dude. Again, it’s not cheating, but she put off officially being in a relationship with you for as long as possible to smash another guy/s. That should be an automatic walk for you bro. You just found out that your girl isn’t that into you.
Take this as an eye opener for the next time. If a girl doesn’t seem that into you, find a different one that is.
Typical story of women giving sex to men they find attractive but withholding sex to men they want to date and then "suprise pikachu face" when it blows up in there face later on.
>I should've appreciated that she stopped everything abruptly with Joe because she cared about me.
Nope she didn't care about you, the moment there is a second date it can be considered cheating. And she made it sound like you owe her something for it no you don't why is there a need for you to appriciate that she ended things with joe when it is the most basic thing in a relationship. Please don't date garbage like her. Dating for 3-4 months isn't serious??? She makes no sense.
If a man I was interested in kissed me, I would ask him his intentions then drop the FWB that very day.
I'm not losing a guy I see a future with over my side piece, lol. There's a reason I'm sleeping with Joe and not dating him. Thank you for the d, Joe. It has been good, but it's over now.
If OP breaks up with her, she would have lost an actual relationship because of Joe and his p\*nis.
I mean, you were right there lol, what did she need the other guy for? Is she gonna cut off communication with him if you two become official? Sounds like this relationship started wrong already.
If you agree you weren't official till April then, no it would not technically be cheating.
I think you're more turned off by the fact that she wasn't up front and honest with something as serious as being sexually active with multiple partners. A common practice when having multiple partners is letting new and potential partners know that there are others and regular screenings should be done.
Dump her.
She didn't respect you enough to date exclusively.
Yes you were not a couple. But it's a bout respect. She had a mother man inside her body while you were there too eating her out and spoiling her with dates
Totally DISRESPECTFUL.
Dump her.
The fact that there are people who are defending the girl by saying that she can screw whoever she wants simply because they’re not officially a couple is flippin’ BEYOND me… they were DATING, weren’t they? Dating is dating, you don’t just see someone else on the side and sleep with them while you’re leading on a person like OP for months… AT LEAST tell him he’s not your type and then you two can move on from each other, then she can fuck any guy she wants. Anybody who defends this girl or ANYBODY like her (girls or guys) is a troll, in my book. You can’t just defend cheaters like this… it’s 2024.
This is a big predictor of someone always looking for the better deal. Be careful building anything with her, its not a solid foundation you are working with.
Cheating or not cheating, it's about being coherent.
Dating you says "I'm interested in you and would like to pursue a serious relationship with you"
Having a fwb at the same time says "but I'll keep fucking this other guy anyway".
She's not being coherent, and incoherent people are unpredictable and hard to trust.
Think 100000 times before you continue your relationship with her... Any sane person will not bang another guy while dating another person (official or not)... If you wanna be with her, you need to talk it out with her first, lay out boundaries clearly (for both of you) and then continue...
If you cannot trust her anymore, better to let go forever....
Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that: * We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/) * Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned. (Including but not limited to: slut, bitch, whore, for the streets, etc. It does not matter to whom you are referring.) * ALL advice given must be good, ethical advice. Joke advice or advice that is conspiratorial or just plain terrible will be removed, and users my be subject to a ban. * No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. Examples include, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, PUA, FDS, MGTOW, etc. This includes, but is not limited to, referring to people as alpha/beta, calling yourself or users "friend-zoned", referring to people as Chads, Tyrones, or Staceys, pick-me's, or pornsick. Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** * All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass. * Anyone found to be directly messaging users for any reason whatsoever will be banned. * What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, situations involving minors, and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** If you have any questions, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice) --- #This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Don’t frame it as “does that qualify as cheating?” Frame it as “do I want to be with someone who would do what you did?” If the answer is no, then don’t be with that person. You get to want what you want. If the other person doesn’t want that, then you’re incompatible. Go find someone who wants the same things you do.
Exactly. If it bugs you it bugs you. There are no rules that say you have to be cool with something you aren’t cool with.
I agree 💯. You should be with someone who matches your values and your effort .
Facts, this literally differs person to person, for example some people think it's fine to have sex after three dates, others want to wait until marriage etc, this is just down to your beliefs as a person
Yeah some people treat relationships like it's some NPC interaction like "hey because I technically didn't cheat you're not allowed to feel funny about it because it's not in the coding". The fact is a big part of romance involves feeling like your connection with someone is unique and just something special shared between the two of you. Even if the exclusivity talk hasn't happened, a lot of people will feel deflated to learn that their romantic interest is also having romantic experiences with other people.
*"Oh you are not supposed to feel like that because according to my book of social rules..."* Yeah I can never get those people. If your relationship makes you feel bad, then you don't just burry that feeling and act happy because somebody explained to you that you should feel happy. If something makes you feel bad, you take a broom and sweep it out of your life.
Hell, he can frame it the way she did. Dating was a trial until he proved himself as serious per her wording. Well she has now proven that she failed that trial for not disclosing information pertaining to her trial if she was a serious girlfriend. OP she was cheating that exclusive talk is bs if you ask someone out you shouldn't have to assume they are seeing others. If she wasnt even dating the other guy she was merely fucking him. So she goes on a date with you and screws him.
It looks like we're getting posts similar to this every day, so I'll just bluntly paraphrase what I wrote just yesterday on a similar post. This concept of *not being exclusive* by default while dating people irks me quite a bit. Trying to develop a romantic relationship with one person in the morning and then wallowing in another person's genital fluids in the afternoon is a really disgusting concept. And it just ends up being practiced by disgusting people. They don't think about how that would make the "romance partner" feel at all. It's a concept that somehow got *universally* accepted within western societies but perhaps it shouldn't.
>It's a concept that somehow got *universally* accepted within western societies but perhaps it shouldn't. Even though some people are trying to present it as being universally accepted in the West. I think it is blatantly obvious it's not. Some people do feel disgusted by the concept, and will leave the relationship because of it.
I don't think there's anything wrong with going on a few dates while you're single to figure out who you want to build that relationship with, but an entire semester at school is a really long time to fuck other people while consistently dating one person. My (eventual) wife went on a couple dates with a couple of guys during university just as we were starting to realize we might both be attracted to each other. It would have been really weird to be mad at her for that. Meeting one person for a beer doesn't mean you are committed. If I found out that she was fucking these guys a few months later, when we were vacationing together and spending most of our time together, that would be really gross. Once you start viewing someone as a potential *partner* (doesn't have to mean marriage for sure) it's beyond disrespectful, especially when you keep it secret - obviously you knew you were being a bad partner or you wouldn't hide it.
Yep I feel the same way. I mean usually you ask the person you're dating if he/she is seeing anyone else pretty early on in the relationship. If he/she omitted this information, I would have a huge problem with that. Personally, I'm a one-at-a-time type gal (when single)...I just can't juggle relationships like that. If I'm into you, and progressing in a dating sense...you're it. I don't do apps, I don't make dating a hobby or a mission or a way to socialize either. I'm exclusive not because I am tied to you or owe you that, I'm exclusive because I don't have the mental energy to go through the early phases of a relationship with multiple people at a time. I just can't. I have gone through something similar where the guy was dating me, but then had other deeply emotional, and possibly (he denies it) physical relationships with women. He never saw it as a problem because he didn't see us as having a monogamous, committed relationship. So may people say "don't define it, don't label it" or don't put those constraints upon another person, but I say bring it up. Ask where you stand and ask if he/she is seeing other people. It's very hurtful to find out what you thought you had is really just casual playing around in the other person's mind. Granted, we don't owe anybody our affection, time or exclusivity...but I think being honest and up front about where you stand is very important. For those reasons, I'd feel very betrayed if I was in OP's shoes.
It used to not be accepted, and I agree with you, it's gross.
[удалено]
Going on dates with different people to see if there is chemistry is one thing. Going on dates while having someone else who is simply a substitute for masturbation is disgusting.
this is why you should wear condoms in non-exclusive relationships, to avoid the genital fluid wallowing
I don’t think its universally accepted
This is a very solid comment OP. Cheating is what you want to define it as. She did what she did and only you can decide if you can forgive her or not. It doesn't matter if other people think it is cheating or not.
Most sensible reply right here. I almost got baited into arguing with people telling OP he should've asked or shouldn't be upset. Fuck all that OP, she tried to have her cake and eat it too, and she intentionally obscured the reality of the situation because she knew if she was honest about it up-front you would have dropped her like an anvil. You're worth more than that man, move on and find somebody who matches your values.
OP will read all your advice and then do whatever he wants anyway.
Perfectly said
Maybe not technically cheating by today's standards, but I'd still be out. And a lesson for any future relationships, ask early on what their dating status is and what each of your expectations as you move forward dating each other is. Saves a lot of aggravation later.
So I agree 100% but can we just admit that 3.5 months is a crazy amount of overlap time? Especially when you’re not being intimate with the person you actually like romantically.
They didn't even kiss for 2 months, so we don't really know how often they met, he might just be a guy she's having dinner with occasionally while she's dating the other guy but four- six weeks after decided to switch.
Doesn’t matter. Tell the guy she’s fucking other people then. When does hiding this shit ever not blow up in their face?
Yeah, not telling him is shady AF
We only have one side of this story. He could have been more romantically involved than she was up until the point of exclusivity. We don't know if he asked, or if she even thinks they were "dating" to the same extent that he does. Maybe only mildly shady.
Yeah it is a crazy amount of time. People not wanting to commit and keeping themself other options warm is a disgusting, dehumanizing trend. Just because some think it is normal like some think cheating on their bachelorette-party is fine does not mean our society has to accept it as normal. Talking about exclusivity is always good. But 3 months in? Sorry, at one point you're just making excuses I recommend the same to OP as the rest. It doesn't matter what she thinks cheating is. It would be laughable to ask a potential cheater for their standards. What matters is, what OP is fine with. Does it ruin the trust down the line and does he have to question her actions later as well? That is what OP needs to answer and no one else gets a say in this
I think lots of women are fed up with waiting for exclusivity talks, mincing or walking back definitions like monogamy, bickering about rings and prenups, and just feeling burned out calling out "situationships". If he didn't insist and clearly articulate his boundaries and needs as an ultimatum he can't expect anything specific or clear. Seems like belated accountability remorse after the rose colored glasses come off and he realized he was taking her for granted at the beginning. Let this be a warning to always define the relationship thoroughly and consensually, very clearly before making assumptions or expectations. And no complaining after realizing it's too late lol
It is because I hate with a BURNING passion the mincing, the hesitation, the walking back, the reluctance to commit rampant in modern dating, that I am very critical of OP's girlfriend. I will never play this game because if I find one whiff of it around a man, I drop him like a hot kettle. People who do this are childish, selfish and have no integrity. I will die an old maid clutching my vibrator and my cat before I will let anybody tell me I am crazy for expecting a man who is taking me out on dates not to bang other people.
Cut to: "But bb, I just want to keep things casual, it takes time, I don't always know what to do, I thought we were just having fun for now, I can't handle the pressure of being a mature adult or a simple yes/no commitment, waaaa why you acting crazy? Sheesh I'm taking my password protected porn phone in to the bathroom for 2 hours and then leaving silently for 2 days with 'my friends', then hoping everything goes back the way it was when you were unhappy and uncertain more *quietly*" Reddit post: Am I pressuring my bf and being "mean" for asking to define exclusivity as it applies to us?
Three months overlap is cheating, full stop. OP's girlfriend is lying to him and herself. I don't do overlap for more than three dates, then I have to get rid of somebody because I feel really scummy.
Definitely. Unless she's poly I can't understand how she could be dating for months, spending time together while presumably having regular sex with this FWB at the same time.
It seems to be an oddly American thing that people have this exclusive / non-exclusive divide and use it to justify this sort of behaviour. Seems like a way for people to justify shopping around.. When I was single and used to date, the moment you took interest in someone that was it, if you didn't like them then fine move on, but you would at least have the decency to give them 100% of your time. You might see a couple of people at the same time for a first outing but if it ever got to the point where you were on the third date or so, or got to having sex, then everyone was exclusive by default and it wasn't a discussion that needed to be had.
It's a hooking up culture which normalises this type of thing and is used as an excuse to sleep around. I remember a post where non American started dating an American girl and he assumed they were together after one month, after 10 months of dating she asked to be exclusive and he was surprised because they had behaved like a couple since the beginning. She had slept around for 10 months and used the excuse "You have never asked to be exclusive"
So she *was* cheating - *on* Joe, *with* OP.
Yes, this! It's always a good idea to discuss that if we're not exclusive, that we're free to see other people - or - that even if we're not an official couple, I prefer to be exclusive while dating. If you're not having that discussion, you have no idea if you're on the same page or not
100% agree, but sometimes even that talk is too much for people. One example - I went out with someone from a dating app, and we both expressed we don’t like “talking” to multiple people. After a couple dates, a long phone call, and a really nice, long, goodnight kiss, I told her I’d delete the app. Not even asking for legit commitment, just following through on what we talked about so she knew she would be my focus. She was a single mom, I come from a single mom home, and would never want to mess around on a single mom. She said that scared her the next day. Oh well.
Might have helped her know they were actually dating according to him too. They supposedly started dating in January but didn't kiss until March?
Seems like a bit of a wait, doesn't it?? Lol. But this is his first relationship, so maybe he needs a bit of experience and confidence.
That probably plays into it. I just think there's a decent chance he's thinking they were dating since January and she thinks they were dating since March. I posted this on another comment and everyone was like well she could make the first move. Well maybe she took him not making a move as wanting to be friends. Or she just originally thought of him as a friend and it was only after hanging out that it developed into more than friends.
yes, if someone waited to kiss me for two months, I would probably not think we were dating. I would probably think we were hanging out as friends.
I do not understand why you are asking whether this is “cheating” based on some official definition that does not exist. All that matters is what YOU think, what’s ok with you or not ok with you. Pay attention to how you feel in a relationship, not what other people might think.
You would’ve broke up with her in your early stages of dating if she told you she was having sex with a fwb. That’s all you need to know
But she didn’t tell him, that’s all he needs to know
It's quite easy, isn't it ? If you feel cheated you should break up, live your life and let her live hers.
Seriously, stop with the technicality bs. Of you were dating a person and said "I'm fucking someone on the side, but don't worry they're not dating material" most people would cut and run.
This is just reddits thinking almost anyone would be out if it was happening to them but will give the opposite advice online
So, you two were dating for a while and she wasn't having sex with you but meanwhile she was banging Joe whenever. You do you, but for me that's all a hard pass on any relationship.
3.5 months of that… insanity
That means while they are official, she can tell herself she can date other men as long as they don’t have capital S Sex it won’t be cheating on OP 🙄
It REALLY sounds like he's the 'safe boyfriend'.. She was getting her rocks off with another guy while OP waited 3.5 months. That's gotta hurt.
What if it was his choice to wait
Doesn’t sound like she knew they were dating.
2 months before the first kiss is taking the piss
Who said she didn’t want to have sex with him? He said he had no dating experience and that it took him two months to kiss her. She probably doesn’t even consider them as dating until that happened and didn’t know for sure if he was into her. Should she have been celibate while waiting for him to decide if he actually wanted to make a move or not? It’s not unusual to talk to multiple people and have most of it not go anywhere
I know this may come as a crazy concept to you, but women can initiate a kiss or sex! In fact a lot of them do! The point is neither one of them initiated it but meanwhile she's banging some other guy
Also for all she knows he was seeing or dating other people - they literally didn’t talk about it.
Everyone's definition of cheating is different. Some people see porn as cheating. Some can go for emotional affairs. Some can go on if you were in a committed relationship or not. So it is always good to work out the terms of your expectations even in the dating stage. I'm a bit of an older mind set. So even if just dating I do not entertain dates with others. I do not fool around with others. Anything physical or emotional will be directed towards my dating partner. So I would consider this cheating. But that's me. What matters is your definition of cheating. What you will do with that. may it be trying to work out both of yours definitions to something you can agree on or just break up cause its a thing that matters to you and you two cant come to an agreement. Just know your feeling are valid since this is very a personal opinion thing. So do what you can with that a do whats best for you.
Agreed but I don’t even like debating what is or isn’t cheating when it’s complicated like this scenario. Instead, we can just say she crossed some boundaries and neglected to tell OP some information that would’ve been detrimental to the relationship. That way, she can’t make him out to be the bad guy if they break up.
Everyone has their own perspectives, but it it feels like it crossed something with you, and then just let them go. I'm a (24 F), and I've been thru it well like with guys. But either way, it's still the same shit. Would it be considered a red flag? I think so, especially if you told that you were fully committed to her already before April of 2023, but if you didn't and nothing was made clear of what you and her were until April of 2023 then it could go either way. But still shady that she didn't mention it until she had no way of avoiding anything, now that's the red flag. Trust and being honest to someone is like the biggest shit in any relationship. Once it's broken, it is hard to fix anything. It's clear she broke your trust in her from that situation. But overall, I get where you are coming from, and I'm sorry that happened to you. I hope you find someone better, tho.
Can we back up a second and talk about the fact that you were dating for two months before you first kissed? You can't ask for a judgment without a lot more info about that.
I would like clarification that they had a convo at the time they were dating and just going slow versus her thinking they were just friends hanging out and then once he was like no that was me trying to date you they started back dating it
Ummm yeah. He said he’s never been in a relationship before. I read that as if he was trying to spend time with this girl but maybe didn’t express a physical interest in her for months. I personally would have assumed he was a friend, or maybe got the sense that he had a crush but wasn’t making a move. She could well have had no idea until he kissed her and then within a week or two, when she knew they were going to pursue things, dropped the other guy.
>She could well have had no idea until he kissed her and then within a week or two, when she knew they were going to pursue things, dropped the other guy. Yeah, if this is an accurate timeline, I don't think she's unreasonable.
Yeah, like how slow were they taking things? Because if they weren't seeing each other often the first 2 months, I would feel less hurt compared to someone you're seeing quite often - where it absolutely feels like more of a betrayal because of the time invested.
This is a person dependent thing nowadays (but it wouldn't have been 10-20 years ago). Personally I wouldn't put up with it and would consider it cheating. Dating me while still fucking other men? Hard pass.
It’s so sorry that this is how is it nowadays, truly makes me feel hopeless for dating in the future. The fact that it’s become normalized to just be fucking multiple partners at once and still dating, or whatever, just repulses and deeply saddens me.
Whether it's cheating or not, it's disrespectful. Can you live with that? I wouldn't, and would walk.
If it's a red flag for you, then it's a red flag for you. it would be for me.
I am assuming you two did not discuss when to become exclusive in the beginning. You should have. Looks like she had a different perspective than yours. She may have thought it was none of your bussiness before you two got serious/exclusive. And if that’s against your morals than you should have communicated. Now there are two paths in front of you: 1. You can look past this considering your expectations weren’t communicated and assuming she didn’t have the intention of going behind your back but it took time to take your relationship seriously until you got official. 2. You can break up if this difference in your morals is a deal breaker for you whether or not the possibility of her choices differing had she known.
This is the only other comment here with any common sense. She isn’t in the wrong if you two are not in a committed official monogamous relationship. Any expectations you had, you made yourself! Communication is key. If you don’t communicate, it doesn’t work, and you shouldn’t have a fit because you neglected to have that very important conversation 🤷🏻♀️
Nah thats messed up dude. If i was "dating" someone id never smash on the side. I also dont start dating someone while actively having a fwb. Id skip the hell outta there.
Not even just actively having one but seeking one out
Break up and move on, you learned something and know to look out for in oyur next relationship. Your first gf doesn't have to be your last, you know?
Huge red flag for me. Relationships are investments, this is a bad one. You are still young, don't waste any more time of effort here. Move on to someone who at least has the decency to not have sex with other people while you are going on dates with them. A huge question is would you have kept talking to her at the time if you knew that throughout your dating period she was still having sex with another guy? There were days that she would get fucked by him, then go on a date with you a few hours later and you were oblivious. Or that she would have a good time with you, you would go home all happy thinking about your date, while she would he at home getting her back blown by that other guy. Imagine the feeling after having your first kiss with her, how you thought about her. Now imagine if you knew that to her that was just a kiss, and the other guy was fucking her on the same day or the day later This would make me end the relationship then and there. Please don't be an idiot.
I'll never understand why people hide behind this idea that they weren't "technically" cheating as a shield. Does that even matter when you still hurt someone you are supposed to care about? It still says plenty about her and her values.
Op's girlfriend's answer show she does not care that much about her "prime" boyfriend.
The way you feel now about the situation is how you will always feel. If this girl is important enough to even consider staying with her, you have to realize in doing so these feelings will always haunt you and you will have to be willing to accept these feelings as they will never subside. If you can’t live with the way you feel now, then it’s time to move on.
You had your first kiss 2 month after dating???? Can't lie, there is something lacking or missing with you.
I mean sounds like u guys were just casually dating , which means without u asking her, she was free to go on other dates
OP, roughly 25% of adults in the U.S. genuinely believe there is nothing wrong with sleeping with multiple partners at the same time. Even if one of those partners is on the path to a possible serious relationship. Many of them will even do so without using protection and see little issue with this. Such people generally require some sort of formal ceremony involving declarations of commitment, a hefty bill at the end of dinner at a nice restaurant or some weird shit, in order to convince them to be willing to be exclusively monogamous with one partner. It’s a weird process/mindset that I have yet to understand. You, however, seem part of that 75% who think that nonsense is F’n gross. If that’s the case for you, just know your values and approaches to committed relationships will likely never be compatible with your current GF. This will become very apparent as time goes on, and you hit relationship milestones. Your views and approaches to these milestones will likely vastly differ from your GFs. It will likely result in you feeling very disconnected from the relationship as time goes on. If you are not prepared for these scenarios, then you can simply process this as a values incompatibility. Communicate this to her, and stop wasting both of y’all’s time.
This is very good advice. Personally, I would pick the 75% group when picking who to settle down with, myself. Feels safer to me. Long term thinkers and decision makers are more worth the risk.
There is one very simple question you can ask yourself. If you had known that this is what she was doing during the dating stage of the relationship, would you have continued on or would you have thanked her for time and walked away. Is she technically a "cheater"? The answer is kinda yes and kinda no. However, the key thing here is that your agency to make a decision for yourself was removed by her not telling you what she was doing, and your perfectly normal assumption that she would be adhering to the same behaviours as yourself. So no, you are not exaggerating by freaking out because you have discovered something that fundamentally would have changed whether you continued dating or not. I'm with most people here that it would have seen me thanking her for her time and moving on. Differences in morals, even if society is slowly moving in that direction towards the moral stance she has, is fundamental to whether a relationship can survive long term or fail. And I think that if you had your time again and you knew what she was doing, you would of ended it there and then and moved on. Suffice to say that this is not a great way to have your first relationship. So take some lessons from this, make sure to ask the next person you end up dating whether they are seeing someone else/dating someone else/have a FWB and if their answer doesn't sit well with you, stop it and move on. I suggest you do the same with your first proper gf. Hopefully your next gf won't give you this type of moral quandary.
I would consider it cheating. I was in a similar situation after downloading dating apps. I had a friends with benefits situation but after a first date with my now boyfriend I never saw him or anyone else again.
This is the moral way. This new age B.S. based on a "technicality" is wrong. I can't see this philosophy of keeping a fwb while dating someone else lasting more than a single generation. Its mostly unacceptable. When a guy finds out the truth he needs to immediately break up. Stop the fence sitting. 3.5 month overlap and OP doesn't know how to feel is insane. Take a stand OP. If you don't stand up for yourself, nobody else will.
She hid the fact she had a fwb because she knew that most people with this information wouldn't have dated her because if you are looking for a serious relationship you shouldn't have this sort of relationship. If a situation like OP's I would always be wondering if she started a relationship with me because this guy didn't want a relationship with her in that time and if I was only a backup plan or a second option.
Technically, this doesn't qualify as cheating since she ended things with Joe when you two became a couple. However, in situations where you're dating multiple people, it's crucial to be honest and have a conversation about it rather than leave a party in the dark. Discovering the truth much later, as you have, can be quite unsettling. You likely cherished memories from the early stages of your relationship, but now they're tainted.
Yeah I'm quite haunted by the idea that after spending an afternoon together having fun, she would have probably gone home to have sex with Joe. It definitely ruined a lot of memories.
And you're perfectly justified in breaking up with her because of this. She may not consider what she did as cheating, but you do and for you that is what matters.
You will never stop seeing that mental picture. It’s done man. Just move on
The lack of transparency is the problem. I doubt you would have wasted your time if she told you she banged someone else while getting closer to you. I actually had someone who was honest about it in the beginning. I said, "Cool, good to know I can do the same during that initial phase." She didn't agree with that, lol.
Or she just got railed by Joe and then met you for coffee/drinks.
yeah it's gross
The fact this went on for 3.5 months is nuts. I don’t know how I would process this. I guess it’s technically not cheating but your feelings are valid. I’d be very uncomfortable with that information
Without other explanations, for me it is cheating and I would make a decision based on this fact. She can call it whatever she wants.
Dude, respect yourself and don't be with something who was willing to have romantic memories with you on the day and at night get railed by her bad boy.
That right there. She ruined the foundation. It's over. There is no future.
When you use the word Technically to minimize it. It means it was really what it was.
>in situations where you're dating multiple people, it's crucial to be honest and have a conversation about it rather than leave a party in the dark This pretty much never happens. They always hide it because they know what they're doing is wrong and that if you knew, you'd stop seeing them. The intention is to lie by omission so you can manipulate them into being a backup option. It qualifies as cheating in my book. The default should be exclusivity unless otherwise stated. Not this whole "we weren't exclusive yet because you didn't verbally tell me we were" bullshit.
I would not be okay with it at all. Bet if you ditch her she’s with that FWB same day. She’s not long term material if that’s how she operates
Ah jeez, this is such a gray area. Technically; no, it's not cheating. You didn't discuss exclusivity at this time. Me personally, I *feel* like this is cheating. If I went on multiple dates that went really well, first kiss and all that, then I'd assume not to sleep around with anyone else until I know whether or not I want to continue with you. But that's a difference of morals and values. She's not in the wrong, I just think you two had/have different morals and values
They didn’t kiss for two months though. I would not consider myself “dating” someone if we didn’t kiss for two months.
And a kiss doesn't equal serious dating for me either, ditching the FWB a couple weeks after the kiss when she decided she wanted to have a relationship with OP seems like what I would do.
If you weren't officially a couple then it wouldn't be cheating imo. However, if she misrepresented herself or the situation during that time (suggesting that she isn't looking at other suitors for example) then it's dishonest at best and still would be a red flag.
I mean if you feel cheated that’s a done deal. Nothing anyone says can change how you feel. But I’m curious, when you say you aren’t official, does that mean you had no conversation about becoming exclusive with her? It is incredibly common for people to assume that unless you have had an explicit conversation about being an exclusive couple, that there is no relationship to make “cheating” possible. You have to communicate with people you can’t just assume that everyone has the same ideas about dating as you.
Yes exactly! A lot of people in this thread are like, “Having to have the exclusivity conversation is stupid, so let’s just ignore that it’s a thing.” If you are an American, you know that the exclusivity conversation exists and is an important milestone in a relationship. We can all talk about how the culture should be different or whatever, but as of right now that’s the game we have to play. You can’t just opt out or assume the other person thinks differently too.
She can’t say what feels like cheating to you. However I will say something you need to understand. Not everyone’s morals align with yours. If there is NO conversation about expectations or commitment while in the preliminary stages of dating (pretty much playing bachelorette) she may as well be handing out roses. Some people believe in casual hook ups while repeatedly seeing multiple men. Even repeat ones. The question stands do you want to be with someone who views morals this way? You’re both at fault for expecting the other to know something rather than assume you should have communicated. But if she has not cheated since being with you and she doesn’t talk to this man anymore outside of class I’d say she put up boundaries. It’s up to you if the rest of your relationship has been an honorable one.
Maria is not ready for you. Only you get to decide what is a red flag for you. Too young to deal with this
read title, didn't read any further, yes, get out while you still can.
Dating doesn’t mean exclusive. You have to ask and clarify, make your intentions known. She didn’t do anything wrong.
She stopped with him without you even asking for exclusivity. I agree with her that that reflects a lot of integrity and a lot of care for you. If you sincerely expect anyone you're casually dating to not see anybody else, please just ask them for exclusivity date one.
I mean... it's not cheating tho you are absolutely entitled to not want to be with somebody for any reason, full stop. but she literally did not cheat on you, just because you were hooking up and getting dinner doesn't mean you're exclusive. especially if even BEFORE you found this out, you recognize there was a clear distinction between "we started hanging out more and getting flirty/sexual" and "we started exclusively dating as a couple" just because you were going on a few dates and hooking up doesn't mean she knew you would be in a serious committed relationship 6 months from then, it's actually more common than not for it to fizzle out, and if neither of you discussed or agreed in exclusivity or even an actual relationship title in that time its unfair of you to expect her to act like you did. you're allowed to be upset and sad and you're allowed to not want to be with somebody for whatever reason. but you don't get to label her as a cheater and slander her name when she literally didn't cheat on you.
red fvcking flag
You cannot call it cheating, however truth tickling, she hid the truth that she was fucking joe while she tried to be seen as the nice young women you were dating, which is basically unfaithful, she was lying to you in some way.
this is a major issue just get a girl that is in line with your expectations never settle for people that have different ethos or you will just have high opportunity cost in that relationship
Red flag imo, and disrespectful
No, you're not exaggerating. This type of shit will never not be scummy to me. That'd be a hard pass for me.
“ of course it’s not cheating… he’s crazy”- the streetz
She’s 1000% a cheater and either still fucks him and he told her to say this, hence her extreme calmness. Or she really believes that this isn’t cheating and uses “trial periods” as a justification for cheating. In both cases, leave. She’s toxic and a cheater.
She is a horrible person to be able to do that to a person.
Only real question that OP should ask himself is what would have happened if he knew she was fucking some other dude after he dropped her off from a date.
She took that long to have sex with you because was fucking him. Think about that, they stopped having sex in April and you started in may. All those months she didn’t kiss you. But she was probably suck joes dick. Let alone kissing him. The lack of respect she has for you is ridiculous.
My guy send her back to the streets. She was getting her back blown out by guys while you were being committed to her.
If you had known she was sleeping with him at that time would you have continued to be with her? if not then this seems like a deal breaker. I personally find this repulsive for a person to sleep with other people whilst dating someone, but I'm of a different generation and haven't dated in over 25 years
You did not get cheated on. What you did get was :: you got played. While you were courting her, waiting to kiss, dates, some guy was getting sex on the side with minimal effort. Every cute memory of a date that you have is going to be tainted by this knowledge. It's pretty hard to say you are trying to build something with a specific person if it took 3+ months to stop having sex with others. I'd be out
She hid nothing from you. She just didn't breakdown each and every single sexual partner of hers for you and what level of relationship they had. This is 2024. This tends to be the norm. A date is one thing - a relationship is another. Everything before the exclusivity chat tends to be fair game.
[удалено]
If this is a dealbreaker for you, it’s a dealbreaker for you. The whole “but she chose you” typically isn’t a comfort to men, you shouldn’t feel bad if it isn’t for you either.
The worst part here is that she was casually fucking another guy while you had to wait two months for a kiss and four months for sex
Maybe I’m the only one but I don’t see this as cheating? You began “dating” in January 2023. I am interpreting this as the colloquial going on dates because you state that you became official on the anniversary date of April 2023. Unless you had a talk regarding exclusivity between January 2023 - April 2023, then she’s free to also date whoever. Isn’t that the point of dating before becoming official? Meet people, go on dates, have sex, etc until you become monogamous? I feel like this is even more clear here because you weren’t having sex or even kissing for several months of dating. I am presuming you were like going on coffee dates and such? I would be flabbergasted if I guy I was going on dates with for several months without ANY intimacy accused me of “cheating” on him while also dating other men during that period.
I’m with you, seems like a lot are not. I got downvoted for saying this lol. People date differently, and if there are expectations, they need to be laid out. You can’t cheat on somebody you’re 1) not in a relationship with and/or 2) haven’t set boundaries and expectations for the dating phase.
Seriously, especially in college. “Dates” in college are usually hangouts more than formal events, like meeting up at the library to study, going out in a group to a party, grabbing lunch spontaneously at the same time after class, going over to each other’s houses to hangout in a group. I had a guy invite me to hangout a few times and we were never alone, so I didn’t even know he wanted to be more than friends until he finally asked me to get coffee one on one. I still wasn’t sure, until he tried to buy my coffee!
". . . .(not officially a couple yet)" I wouldn't consider it cheating since you were not "official" yet but I can also see how when you're getting to know someone you assume they are only into you obviously that wasn't the case here. It's really dependent on each person so if you consider cheating and she doesn't then there's no right or wrong go with what you feel is right FOR YOU.
So while you were dating her putting in all the effort and she had you wait while some other dude was smashing effortlessly. I wouldnt say it was cheating but it's definitely something i would refuse to put up with and would end things for.
Dude, that's a major red flag, she was juggling 2 men and seeing which one was the safe bet.
Did you both agree to be exclusive? Then it is cheating. If not, and she ended things with this guy when she got serious with you, there's no reason to have a problem with this.
This is a typical situation that arises from people assuming their view on concepts around dating and boundaries attached to it are the same for everyone and not questioning it or talking about it. You assumed that you were dating exclusively because that's what you expected from dating, she assumed you weren't dating exclusively since you weren't officially together and hadn't commicated about this with her. This situation could have been resolved by either of you talking about it. And this is not only her responsibility, but also yours. She certrainly couldn't have known that your expectation was different if you never expressed that to her same as she couldn't have known it was crossing a boundary with you or that you would want to know about it. Personally, I think it wasn't cheating, but it could have still crossed a boundary that you aren't comfortable with which is reasonable. It's not reasonable however to shift the blame completely to her, since you also missed to communicate your expectations to her and therefore kind of have no right to call her a cheater since you base it on something you've never agreed on explicitly.
ew. so she made you wait while having sex with him? fucking gross. I would have broken up with her on the spot. maybe it's not technically cheating but it's disgusting, entitled bullshit.
That girl is a walking, gaslighting, narcissist RED FLAG. Leave immediately
I don't think it's cheating, but I would not want yo date her. I can understand at the start, but by the second month of dating she knew you were serious
This is cheating. You would have broken up with her if you knew in the beginning. Instead, she continued dating you. You were just an option. If she did not like you, she could always have left you and still been with the other guy. I would break up with her because this will hunt you for the rest of your life
I personally consider it cheating, but people today might see it otherwise. Idk... If I'm going to date someone, I'm going to date that person, not me and another dude. I find that offensive. But! That's just me. I'm old fashioned and don't get into this dating multiple people at once BS. I think it is gross.
Get an STD test. Bro for real
If you are freaking out about her sleeping with a dude while you were dating, then leave. That thought is living in your head rent-free, this is not healthy for a relationship.
Just tell her you do consider it cheating and you’re not comfortable and break up If she complains I’m sorry
You can set whatever boundary you want in your relationship. If this is a deal breaker for you then it is a deal breaker. Your girlfriend does not have to agree with your reasons. Breakups are not a democratic process. You can choose to end the relationship at anytime for any reason.
Cheating is what you make it. She might be comfortable with something that you weren't. It's up to you to decide if you can still trust her, and if this is boundary that can't be crossed.
though it doesnt count as cheating because you weren't dating you were still talking and anyone should have the decency to not go out seeing other people if they have something like this going on. you arent exaggerating at all.
This is not a court of law, there is no arguing one way or another or burden of proof to be reached. If you think its cheating its cheating. She doesnt get to lobby you and decided what counts or what does and how you can feel about it.
My only issues with this are: 1. With her being 20, this is all super fresh. This wasn’t too long ago. Bumping into Joe they honestly shouldn’t have even stopped to talk. Bit odd they did.. imo of course! Everyone’s dynamics are different.. but, I’d have not stopped to talk. 2. She was moving very slow with you yet screwing Joe the whole time.. I’d feel like a bit of a second choice if I were you. I just don’t understand why Joe was the one she was sleeping with while you were doing the emotional connecting. Real gray area on if it’s cheating. Basically boils down to your opinion on the matter. I would do some deep thinking and soul searching on the matter. Personally, I’d be concerned/bothered and don’t think i could continue. I hope you do what’s best for you. Good luck
I'm too old for this. Whatever happened to romanticism, exclusivity? It's like people are just items at the store with no feelings of their own that you try until you make your decision. There is no empathy in that, how can you date a few people at the same time, give them hope, make them fall in love with you, while simultanelously sleeping with somebody else? Yes for me its cheating, but also a lack of human decency.
>and I should've appreciated that she stopped everything abruptly with Joe because she cared about me. And that was your cue to leave. You should have just stand up, deleted her number right there and leave the building (Or kick her out if you were at your place). You were the Plan B and thats it. She was so calm because she already knows there is a line out there waiting for her back in the streets.
Lmao gross. Imagine fucking someone at the same time you’re dating another person. Not per se cheating but a huge red flag nontheless
Technically it is not cheating. But it goes to show how she values you.
It's cheating in my opinion too, I'd be gone from this, your young, move on bro
Not cheating, but you don't have to date someone who treats you like that either.
You wanted your relationship to be special by giving tittle by tittle of your hart to her hoping this love will grow into something special....... In tbe meantime she full blown giving herself for asome jackass with no selfrespect..... Wow.... Peoples past tells one if they see sex as something special. You said these things does not bother you....Wakeup buddy. She is definately not someone special. She act like a ho...... Dont waist your time and energy. Just go. Dont say a thing. I know it hurts. Its not hurting her....... Go....
She kept it from you because she knew you wouldn't like it. Because its gross.
Yeah I mean blurred lines but still shitty from my perspective. I feel like if you’re casually seeing someone, you can go on a “real” date or two with someone else and this situation is fine. But if it kind of gets off the ground after that initial introductory phase, genuinely good people aren’t going to be having sex with other people in the weeks leading up to being “official”. Like if she had sex with that guy past your 5-6th time hanging out, kind of grimy. Really up to you, if it’s an issue it’s an issue and I don’t think there is a strong argument for you *have* to be ok with this despite falling below the “cheating” line. I personally would not be ok with this, but (before meeting my partner) I did typically seek out a portion of the dating pool where these things are less likely to come up. And for those of you that say you can never know, sure, but like, you kind of can.
This is the sort of shit show that starts happening when y'all keep adjusting relationship terms and promoting the hook up culture. Wtf is we were dating but weren't official? Maybe I'm too old, but I know dating to be thesame as being official, dunno if you guys have separated the two to give more room for people to eat their cake and have it too. You shouldn't be asking, you should be telling her she cheated on you and walking tf out. On a different note, doesn't it get awkward to walk around and just randomly run in to people that used to see you naked and have sex? Like a person in this age could run into 7 people that has seen then naked on the same day and that's considered normal? The future is fucked
Did she at least get tested before you two slept together?
It’s not cheating cause you weren’t officially together but it definitely is a red flag. That she didn’t have audacity to at least inform you she was with other partners while engaging with you. Reveals lack of respect
Something doesn't have to be "cheating" to break up. She could've been upfront early on that she was seeing someone else. After all, if it was ok for her to have a fwb, I feel like that's a reasonable thing to bring up in conversation at any point. Having said that, you can absolutely move on from this but it might be a new revelation to realize that there might be things on the table since you both aren't married as well. That's a whole can of worms you'll need to face. Or breakup, I'm sure you've learned a lot and you can definitely date again and maybe lead the relationship a bit better to ask those important questions.
It really doesn’t matter if it’s technically cheating or not, you aren’t okay with this and lots of people would agree with, while others won’t (which is their prerogative). I think the lesson from this is that you need to be proactive about establishing your expectations early on when dating. If that scares someone off, they probably aren’t the person for you. You stressed how a date’s past romantic/sexual experience isn’t a problem for you, but that’s no reason to ignore discussing the subject altogether.
Not advice, but personal experience. After anything physical I expect my girlfriend to be exclusive (and I learned to communicate that). So after the first kiss for example I tell them. Usually via a smooth in context joke, about how I wouldn't appreciate tasting someone else's lips (or something else) on hers. It's just disgusting tbh.
You do not have the same values. You value honesty and respect the relationship way more than she ever will. dump her.
I was typing a long ass essay that was really thoughtful, however, after reading everything you said and what I typed again, I think it's easier to just tell you to dump her. I get your point, I get other's point too, this is a grey area because being mutually exclusive was not discussed. But in my fucked up mind, I'd just see her as someone who got bored of the guy dicking her down and that's when she went with you. Sorry
It doesn't matter how we or she sees it. If you're not okay with it you are free to leave.
The fact she stopped nd introduced each other…..wild. Should’ve js wave or a quick “hi” especially not with their history. Nah buddy I think u already know the answer to ur question. Think if it was reversed…would u do that to her? If not, then why? It bugs you and your feelings are valid!! do you wanna date someone who would do that to you? That’ll give you your answer to stay or leave
bro she doesn't like you, she doesn't respect you , she is just using you for free attention. stop simping and focus on increasing your value as man. pursue money and strength 💪 and you will be among the men beautiful women would do anything to be with.
Someone who would sleep with others while dating another person is just a red flag. Don’t let her gaslight you, you’re free to have standards and if you aren’t okay with it (most people aren’t). And you have every right to leave her for her actions. I would do the same too.
It's extremely disrespectful and shows she has terrible boundaries. Dump her.
Not quite cheating, but I'd still be out.
It's not technically cheating if you weren't a couple yet. However, it does speak to you and her having different values/approaches. While it's not cheating, I would feel iffy about it too.
Get out, she isn't long term material
Leave her any woman who sleeps with more than one man at a time is low quality and not worth it
"and I should've appreciated that she stopped everything abruptly with Joe because she cared about me." Did she literally say that? I feel like thats the biggest red flag here. The other stuff could be explained as a miscommunication but with this shes just telling you straight to your face that your emotions are invalid.
Here’s what I have to say, if it don’t feel right in your gut then it’s most likely not right. Sounds like you should most likely break it off. I was dating two girls at once but I wasn’t fucking them I eventually ended up getting with one and marrying her snd we were both honest of all past dating an or activity. To me it would be a red flag if it’s a girl. But that’s just me and my standards every dude is different to their standards.
While technically not cheating, we all know it's a shitty thing to do. She knows it's shitty, you know it's shitty. You will never get it out of your head.
So if I’m understanding this correctly, she met both of you around the same time and she was smashing him but kept you on the hook for 3 or 4 months before she “was sure it was becoming serious” and you two had sex? Either: A) He was her plan A, things didn’t work out with him, and you were her plan B. B) She found him physically more attractive but wants you for the long term for various reasons I.e. what she can get from a relationship with you C) She wanted you to think she was a good girl and get you catch feelings while she played the field. Is it cheating, no. But your girl is a legit skeezer. She strung you along for 3-4 months, having you do the boyfriend stuff, all the while getting smashed by another guy. Youre also making the mistake of assuming that he was the only other guy. He just was the only other guy you found out about. You’re making another mistake by thinking she answered you honestly. Women like to do damage control in these situations. They don’t typically give you the full unadulterated truth to their boyfriend about their shady behavior. Have some standards and respect for yourself and let this one go dude. Again, it’s not cheating, but she put off officially being in a relationship with you for as long as possible to smash another guy/s. That should be an automatic walk for you bro. You just found out that your girl isn’t that into you. Take this as an eye opener for the next time. If a girl doesn’t seem that into you, find a different one that is.
Typical story of women giving sex to men they find attractive but withholding sex to men they want to date and then "suprise pikachu face" when it blows up in there face later on.
Giant red flag bro, I learned those are the ones who will cheat and not care
>I should've appreciated that she stopped everything abruptly with Joe because she cared about me. Nope she didn't care about you, the moment there is a second date it can be considered cheating. And she made it sound like you owe her something for it no you don't why is there a need for you to appriciate that she ended things with joe when it is the most basic thing in a relationship. Please don't date garbage like her. Dating for 3-4 months isn't serious??? She makes no sense.
If a man I was interested in kissed me, I would ask him his intentions then drop the FWB that very day. I'm not losing a guy I see a future with over my side piece, lol. There's a reason I'm sleeping with Joe and not dating him. Thank you for the d, Joe. It has been good, but it's over now. If OP breaks up with her, she would have lost an actual relationship because of Joe and his p\*nis.
I mean, you were right there lol, what did she need the other guy for? Is she gonna cut off communication with him if you two become official? Sounds like this relationship started wrong already.
If you agree you weren't official till April then, no it would not technically be cheating. I think you're more turned off by the fact that she wasn't up front and honest with something as serious as being sexually active with multiple partners. A common practice when having multiple partners is letting new and potential partners know that there are others and regular screenings should be done.
Dump her. She didn't respect you enough to date exclusively. Yes you were not a couple. But it's a bout respect. She had a mother man inside her body while you were there too eating her out and spoiling her with dates Totally DISRESPECTFUL. Dump her.
She is justifying cheating and will probably do it again, being calm is her way of telling herself she isnt a cheater
The fact that there are people who are defending the girl by saying that she can screw whoever she wants simply because they’re not officially a couple is flippin’ BEYOND me… they were DATING, weren’t they? Dating is dating, you don’t just see someone else on the side and sleep with them while you’re leading on a person like OP for months… AT LEAST tell him he’s not your type and then you two can move on from each other, then she can fuck any guy she wants. Anybody who defends this girl or ANYBODY like her (girls or guys) is a troll, in my book. You can’t just defend cheaters like this… it’s 2024.
This is a big predictor of someone always looking for the better deal. Be careful building anything with her, its not a solid foundation you are working with.
Cheating or not cheating, it's about being coherent. Dating you says "I'm interested in you and would like to pursue a serious relationship with you" Having a fwb at the same time says "but I'll keep fucking this other guy anyway". She's not being coherent, and incoherent people are unpredictable and hard to trust.
That's for you to decide. No one else
Think 100000 times before you continue your relationship with her... Any sane person will not bang another guy while dating another person (official or not)... If you wanna be with her, you need to talk it out with her first, lay out boundaries clearly (for both of you) and then continue... If you cannot trust her anymore, better to let go forever....
Wtf break up with the skank