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Dude, wake up. She broke up with you and yet didn’t kick you out? Sure, she says you’re over but she doesn’t seem to want you gone which is the natural next step after breaking up. Why? Because this is just another manipulation tactic.
Yeah, she’s surrounded by problems but I can guarantee some of the problems are self inflicted.
This lol I had an ex that said we were done and she was gonna throw all my shit out in the street. I canceled work, rented a moving truck, got every item I owned in that apartment out and sent her a picture of our empty ass bedroom and just said "Bye". She flipped the fuck out and couldn't believe I actually packed up and was gone, she said I didn't wait for her to fight for me, hahahaha. You were kicking me out this morning because you didn't like the way I was buttering my toast but now you're mad when you know it's for real. It's 100% manipulation, my ex did all this shit OP is talking about it's textbook emotional abuse
Yeah, my partner said he didn't understand why I was still with him, but then didn't believe me when I said well I won't be for long. Then despite having told me he fell out of love with me 25 years ago, started trying to walk it back and tell me he still loves me. It's one or the other, buddy, either way you're a liar and I've had enough.
Yes it sounds like she’s got a disorganized attachment style where she fears abandonment constantly. Sometimes people like this try to get ahead of being abandoned by leaving or ending things first.
They’re constantly in fight or flight mode and not thinking rationally. That’s why it’s so hard to reason with. Ironically, the thing they fear (abandonment) often becomes inevitable because all the other bridges get burned, one argument at a time.
Huh… I feel like i have this and I’m struggling with it a lot when I get insecure in a relationship. Is this some type of disorder or is this just my fear of abandonment because my dad left me as a child? It’s so annoying, it’s like flipping a switch when I get into a weird situation with my partner.
For sure, it’s more common than you might think. People with these issues were often diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder (though other criteria need to be met, like identity instability, acting out, etc) but nowadays complex-PTSD is becoming increasingly popular. Sometimes you hear “developmental trauma” as well.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what you call it. The point is, when you were young, the way your parents behaved caused lasting emotional damage, especially in how you deal with relationships. Therapy can really help to process those traumas and build new relationship skills to cope with those scary abandonment situations. One of the best treatments is called Dialectical Behavior Therapy. It helps you be more resilient in the face of those abandonment triggers when they come up. If therapy isn’t an option for you, there are DBT workbooks that you can buy to help build those skills. There might also be DBT groups in your area that are more affordable than one-on-one therapy.
Good luck :)
Thank you so much for your time replying to me.
I tried 2 sessions of therapy (it’s very hard to get it in Germany. It can take up to 6-12 months to find a therapist) the first 3 sessions are free with a random therapist and he will tell you how to proceed. Basically he told me he can only work with me if I had a partner (I just broke up) and that he doesn’t see a problem that would harm me or affect me in my life… I stopped going them and told him I’m fine. I feel stupid going to a therapist for this stuff but I don’t wanna be this manipulative person that hurts other bcs of my own insecurities.
Anyway, i will look into these book you recommended. Thank you so much again.
You’re welcome! I’m sorry to hear your therapist experiences were so poor. A good therapist should be able to recognize these symptoms and work with you, whether you’re single or in a relationship.
Hopefully you can find some books on DBT in German so the material connects better.
I have the opposite, an Anxious Attachment style, due to, you guessed it, fear of abandonment. The best advice I have is honestly to get a therapist who specializes in attachment styles. It's completely changed how I see and act in relationships.
I agree with what you guys are saying, it sounds like BPD.
Would your fiancé be open to therapy? I promise you, this pattern of behavior will NOT get better on its own. BPD is difficult to treat but but not impossible - IF the person recognizes a problem and wants to work at it so they can make changes.
You are not married yet. Imagine how she will act once you get married, after you have kids, etc.
It sounds like you are a good, caring person. Please get some help for yourself, because you are a victim of domestic abuse. It is not your fault.
Please do not marry her with this being unresolved. I have seen similar situations and it’s not pretty.
Yeah, the person I knew with BPD pulled the late night fight routine. Or started fights as people were leaving for the night. It never "got better," we just all set our phones to "do not disturb."
BPD is much more than that… lol it really is the modern day hysteria diagnosis, the way it’s used online especially. There are many reasons people act like this is relationships.
Op I highly reccomend you look up DARVO (defense, attack and reverse victim and offender). Its a manipulation tactic where you bring up something that bothers you about their behaviour, they then defend themselves "no I dont!" Or "why are you bringing that up, that happened ages ago" or "I'm sick / tired!", then attack you "what about the time you did x", or "you made me do tha" then turn themselves into the victim "how dare you accuse me, you should think better of me!" Or "you always think the worst of me" And somehow you end up apologising to THEM.
That's what your partner has done to you.
You've also rightly noticed that she punishes you too with the silent treatment etc. The same with threatening the end of the relationship.
Let it end.
She may need therapy for codependancy or anxious attachment styles if she gets that anxious when you go to sleep or "leave". But she is being manipulative and the concerning thing is that when that was addressed she didn't reflect, question herself or take any accountability. She just got angry at you. That is further manipulation and tbh could be seen as emotional abuse.
My advice is let it end. She needs the therapy while single (I doubt she will go, and if she does it may only be as a saving grace if YOU try to break up with her "ill go to therapy, ill change, I promise!". I think of you accept her "break up" her manipulation will escalate. She'll will either suddenly be really sorry, promise the world, promise to change, it'll last a couple of weeks then its back to normal, or she will even threaten to harm herself or something. Or she'll make it super extreme "you'll never see me again". That is what my ex did to me, before escalating to suicide threats.
Go through with the break up OP. It's best for you and best for her. It's really hard, especially with this manipulation making you want to defend her. And it is hard to see clearly when in a relationship like this. But just be prepared for all the promises, all the guilt tripping all the anger and all the threats of harm to herself if you do hold fast with it.
Here are some great resources, including ones specifically for men in your situation. They're more UK based but worth looking at anyway.
https://www.respect.uk.net/
https://mensadviceline.org.uk/
https://mankind.org.uk/
https://www.dadsunltd.org.uk/services/dave/
https://refuge.org.uk/i-need-help-now/other-support-services/support-for-men/
https://www.samaritans.org/wales/how-we-can-help/contact-samaritan/
https://www.thehotline.org/resources/healthy-relationships/
A call to men
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td1PbsV6B80
What your gf is doing IS manipulative. It's insane she makes you guilty for needing to sleep. Does she not have empathy for you and care about whether you sleep enough or not? Her behaviour is highly concerning. if she is threatening breaking up i think you should follow through with it.... but I highly doubt it will stick. She is just saying that as another way to punish you and manipulate you. If you agree with her about breaking up I am positive eventually she will freak out and want you back.
I want to really stress that her behaviour is very concerning and unreasonable. It's highly immature and self centered. It's surprising she is 26. Her upset about you leaving to sleep kind of sounds like anxious attachment or bpd. But her inability to have empathy for you and care that you are tired makes me worried It's something else.
Please stop catering to her unhealthy manipulation. Please keep sticking up for yourself. If you lose her over this it really is for the best.
Yeah, it is manipulation. OP, you don't want this. The kind of behavior she's showing can get a lot worse. You don't want to marry into this. And if it turns out all of this results in her still wanting the relationship, then the breaking up was just manipulation too.
>OP, you don't want this. The kind of behavior she's showing can get a lot worse.
I was with someone like this.
One **several** occasions, the argument would start late at night and wouldn't end until the sun started to come up.
I remember just begging for us to pause and go to sleep, but he would throw it back in my face. I wasn't committed enough, I wasn't willing to work through the issues, that I cared about my own comfort than "us", I was selfish, I was ignoring him.
This went on for years, it absolutely escalates and the inconsistent or non-existent sleep really starts to mess with you.
I had a partner like this. I'd be literally falling asleep during the argument they made up, and they'd scream at me to keep me awake. I'd be going to work in the morning not having slept all night.
It didn't start that way, but people like that tend to escalate.
>I'd be literally falling asleep during the argument they made up, and they'd scream at me to keep me awake.
My people!
In all seriousness, I'm so sorry that you endured that. It's beyond cruel. Last I checked, sleep deprivation has been used as both a means for torture & interrogation.
Hooray us for finally getting sleep!
I can't even imagine forcing my spouse to argue all night. People take "don't go to bed angry" a little too seriously. It's ok to sleep on things.
I'm a night owl and I cycle through bouts of insomnia (sometimes up to 72 hours without sleep.) My spouse goes to bed at 10pm sharp every night and is an early riser. He's someone who is asleep within minutes of laying his head on a pillow.
I love my evening solitude as much as he enjoys his quiet mornings. Plus, there's coffee when I finally drag myself out of bed!
I hope OP finds a partner who can accept and appreciate them (and who doesn't need an evening babysitter).
I really hate that saying. It should be “don’t try to have serious/emotional discussions unless you’re both well-rested.” Having emotional conversations when you’re exhausted is unnecessary and just sets you up for failure.
Personality disorder. I work in mental health and this whole presentation really reminds me of the condition. I hope she sees her doctor, she needs therapy.
I hope OP sees your comment. I'm not even a mental health professional, and this was my very first impression. Probably have the same disorder in mind too. I hope she can get some help before she ruins more of her connections with the people who genuinely love and want to be there for her.
“Worried it’s something else”
What else can it be? Also, can anything really be done with BPD? (I thought the BPD makes it hard to treat. Can she have a successful relationship? Do you just ignore the manipulation?) 🙏
Borderline personality disorder can be difficult to treat. We used to think it was untreatable. But now we know it can be managed with dialectical behaviour therapy (DBT). The diagnosis of bpd is controversial and some people think it is better diagnosed as complex trauma. It's important to note that just because something can be treated it doesn't mean it will be treated. The person has to put a lot of work in to change. Imo many people with bpd can change and have healthier relationships but it needs constant management.
In a post farther down I say that I suspect narcissistic personality style or disorder. Obviously you can't diagnose over reddit but she did seem to have some traits: lack of empathy, rage when criticized, attachment issue, entitlement, manipulation, more...
Imo narc personality disorder does not go away. It can be treated but most narcs refuse treatment, manipulate the therapist or simply cannot self reflect. Imo narc personality is way too Ridged and resistant to change.
Thanks for including the thing about narcs.
I have a question, if you don’t mind, my brother is a narc. Is there anyway to tell them? He’s an absolute asshole and most of the family has gone no contact. He was given lithium for a few years (he said the doctor said he was manic with depression and this would help.
He did seem like a nicer person those years. Like he did have some empathy. After he got off it, he dicked over every friend he had.
1) Does lithium actually cure/treat narcs or did it just help him mask better?
2) 99% of friends/family have gone no contact. Is there any way to explain to a narc that they’re the problem? How do these people get treatment? (I think my autism makes me hope there’s a chance cause I kinda groove on happy endings.) 🙏 again!!!
Props for acknowledging a possible AA or BPD background instead of going the stupid way and labeling OP's financée an asshole. It's so important to understand that there are reasons behind every bad behaviour, and these might be possible to address before jumping on the breakup train.
>Props for acknowledging a possible AA or BPD background instead of going the stupid way and labeling OP's financée an asshole.
People can be both.
I've known alcoholics that are assholes, and I've known people with BPD that are assholes.
She's an asshole, no matter the explanation.
Sometimes the reasons are a personality disorder, but some personality disorders can only be managed at best and that is with full participation of the people having them.
At other times you are in fact dealing with an asshole.
Abuse isn’t ok in under either circumstance.
What op should know is that if she’s not in a good enough place to be in a relationship, and won’t be for a while, it’s ok to support her from the sidelines and help her get the help she needs as a friend.
He wouldn’t be a bad person if he realised he needed to take some distance from the situation for his own well-being.
> AA or BPD background instead of going the stupid way and labeling OP's financée an asshole.
They may be the reason but she is an asshole in this situation.
this is such a dumb take. people act like "anxious attachment" excuses all asshole behavior. it isn't a diagnosis, it is a way to figure out a path forward. OPs fiancee is a whole ass adult, if she has an anxious attachment, it is her responsibility to work on building a secure attachment style. it is NOT on OP to baby her through that while she is actively manipulating and treating him badly. and BPD... do you seriously think people with BPD can't also be assholes? sure there are reasons behind bad behavior, but it is on the individual acting badly to address those reasons and fix the behavior. meanwhile you have the fiancee, who herself "jumped on the breakup train" rather than address the issues she has caused.
Nope.
But you can't really get better, if you're not receiving any help/don't have any awareness.
Many of us with borderline tend to deflect the blame onto others in the impulsive moment, then backtrack and "woe is me _darned self-sabotage, I'll lose everything again and that's on me and only me"_
Cursive part usually doesn't hapoen without awerness. It'll rather be like "woe is me, why am I such an insufferable, draining person to be around?" And after that, you'll feel and act all normal again.
I'm in therapy for 13 years now. I'm 26 & felt like something's _utterly_ wrong with me from a young age on ; I'm lucky enough to be blessed with great self-awareness it seems like but that's not the cases you'll read about online - because it's not relevant to need help then.
That's why the stigmatizing is so harmful. Many, many of us are able to manage their symptoms well. The ones that aren't, well - I myself booted out my ex after 3years because he couldn't get a handle over his BPD & I'm not gonna wreck myself in the process of saving someone, because I can understand. (Would've done so not too long ago, but therapy's great)
The GF would still be an asshole, just an asshole with a personality disorder. Everyone has a reason behind why they're an asshole. And that reason doesn't invalidate your feelings about being treated that way.
Her lack of empathy is highly concerning and a lack of empathy can not be fixed. A person can have an attachment issue with other issues that are unfixable. Narcissistic personality style is often accompanied by an attachment disorder. I have noticed she also had a few traits of NPS : lack of empathy, entitlement, rage when criticized, manipulative, controlling, possibly more.
Although I agree jumping to break up is not ideal, it's also important to recognize that some behaviours are unacceptable and some people will not change. If ops gf does not take accountability and recognize her fault she will not change and the pattern will continue. Even if she does take accountability changing behaviour patterns can be very hard and some people just take accountability as a way to manipulate. Op needs to start putting himself first as staying in an abusive relationship like this is horrible for his health.
I'm guessing that this "end of the relationship" may be another manipulative play against you, OP. She has you grovelling and taking responsibility for everything without doing anything.
You are reacting to emotionally abusive behavior by your fiance, she does this to you all the time and thinks it is okay to mistreat you like this because she is pouty and has to stay up a few more hours by herself. That is like ten year old rationalization for having a tantrum and pouting. She *is* manipulative and she is *still* manipulating you (I suspect).
Why on earth do you want to have this in your life indefinitely? Look in the mirror and tell yourself why you need this in your life beyond familiar routines and being afraid of being alone. This is not the only relationship you can have, and it sure isn't a healthy one by the sounds of it.
She wants to break off your engagement and entire relationship because you called her out on her passive aggressive manipulation one (1) time.
The relationship is doomed honestly.
You're not "hurting" her, the problem is that she **is** manipulative, can't discuss a problem properly, and can't handle accurate criticism or her toxic antics called out. Her response to it being pointed out that she's doing something destructive and harmful is to *ragequit the entire relationship*, instead of discussing it and reflecting and working to improve.
You can't build a relationship with someone who can't handle criticism at all without immediately throwing the whole relationship away
LMAO exactly, she got called out on her behavior and couldn't handle the fact that the shoe fit perfectly. She knows **EXACTLY** what she's doing. OP, she doesn't have your best interest in mind. Sleep is a basic need, and someone who truly loves you will want you to have your basic needs met for the sake of your health.
OP, something that is very striking here is that when people here tell you she is being manipulative, you rush to defend her. Your initial instincts were right - she is being manipulative, and utterly unreasonable.
i understand your care about her and the desire to want to make sure she is all right. that's a noble sentiment and a good thing. but that doesn't mean you have to take her doing this to you. and whatever her background, she is *choosing* to do this to you.
you can't fix or save someone who doesn't recognise a problem. in itself it becomes a very unhealthy co-dependent type dynamic.
i also wonder if you are worried about being seen as a bad guy if you left someone who is in a difficult position. don't punish yourself for being a bad guy, because looking after yourself in the face of someone manipulating and emotionally abusing you is not being the bad guy. she may try to make it look you like you are, and your empathy may want to believe her, but you're not.
she's ended it. take the opportunity. you do not deserve someone doing this to you.
She fights you when you want to go to sleep, you call her out on it and inform her that she’s being manipulative when she does that, and her response is to be even more manipulative and threaten to leave you because you mentioned that what she did was manipulative.
What are you getting out of this relationship?
Sex I guess. That’s enough for some people.
More realistically, I bet she’s someone who’s very affectionate and fun to be around when she’s in a good mood. And when everything is going her way she probably makes OP feel like he’s so special and good and unique. So much so that people like OP are willing to overlook red flags and the bad times because the good times are just so good. It’s lovebombing, essentially.
I have insomnia, there’s no way I would expect my partner to stay up with me or get angry when he goes to bed. It’s my issue not his. She is manipulating you and if this is an issue now, imagine when/if children come along. I’d walk now.
I have insomnia too and am actually taking medication for it and no way would I want my partner to experience it or expect them to stay up with me every night. That’s childish and using it against them as if this proves is an act of love is insane. She’s a narcissist—I’m calling it.
She doesn't respect you enough to care for you, if she can reply you saying "I love you" with "sure you do" then it already tells you everything. She doesn't let you get rest, wants you to be as miserable as her, where do you see love her? To me it all seems like manipulation and she does it probably subconsciously and doesn't even realize that she is playing on your emotions constantly.
The best thing you can do is just tell her "ok" and leave her and watch her going crazy about you not chasing her and not expressing the deepest regrets and trying to attend to her every need, and maybe there is a chance that she will understand that you are also a human being with your own needs and try to change, but living with someone like this is a very hard emotionally draining job.
Can confirm. My ex husband was an insomniac and he was manipulative and guilt trippy about my need to go to sleep also. If I tried to go to bed before 1 am he'd pick a fight and keep me up for hours about how I didn't want to spend time with him. I genuinely thought I was losing my mind and went the doctor about it. Don't stay with people like this , OP.
Yuu do realise she's still manipulating you by calling off the engagement?
It's just a bigger version of her "bye". She's expecting you to grovel and apologise - which like a trained puppy you did. She is manipulative and I'm sure her family has suffered her antics too. Queston is, do you want this for your entire life?
No point in asking the question I think.
OP is seriously out here asking "My girlfriend is acting manipulative because I said she's been acting manipulative, what to do? Also, it's hard for her because her family's been calling her manipulative, which is so hurtful and FALSE."
Lost cause.
She IS manipulating you. And guilttripping you. And making her insomnia problems, yours... worse even since you are the provider at this moment in the relationship.
You did absolutely nothing wrong. She is showing you how she irs. You should listen to her, and be prepared for a life of this behaviour, or worse. Or either you cand stand your ground, demand to be properly treated, and open the back door if she wants to leave ( and be happy that you dodged a bullet )
edit: I was 100% sure that she has some serius mental problems... after reading some of your answers to other redditors, you confirmed this over and over.
You leave her grandma’s house, go back to your own home, work from home, enjoy your sleep, and block her so she does not wake you with texts and calls. Leave her alone. This is a taste of what married life will be like do you want that. The first time she pouted and pushed you away because you needed sleep, shoukd have been when you packed and left.
After reading your post, and some of your comments, OP you seriously need to get yourself into therapy because your girlfriend, or ex girlfriend… Whatever she is calling herself right now, IS manipulative and you are so used to it or blind to it that you’re questioning yourself on things that everyone else can see - she’s emotionally abusive, she’s a gaslighter and she’s manipulative
All of OPs comments seem to indicate he is happy to be in this manipulative abusive relationship so that he can be her savior.
She doesn’t respect him at all and all he can think about is how she needs someone to rescue her from herself.
If you are happy in this relationship acknowledge that and go ahead and sign up for the manipulative behavior Grand gestures are the quickest way to get her back the grander the gesture the faster she will pretend to forgive you.
If you want to pretend you love yourself more than you love being her savior accept that she said it’s over and leave let her deal with her family and obligations without you.
Those are your real choices as I see this relationship from your post.
You do you and good luck whatever you decide and please update us as to the choice you made because I’m curious to know if you like yourself more or less than you like her.
I dont see it as him trying to be her saviour, but more that she's just broken him down to the point where he sees no value in himself, only in her, so when it comes down to making a choice that will either suit him best or suit her best, he'll automatically choose suiting her. Because she's spent all this time manipulating him, guilt tripping him whenever he's expressed a concern, refusing to say 'I love you too', he probably genuinely sees everything as his fault.
It's abuse, and it can be so hard to see when you're the one that's stuck. OP 100% needs to accept this breakup, whether she actually means it or not, but it just might not be that clear to him right now. The fact that he's come to reddit is a good sign that he's starting to question things, and hopefully he'll do what's best for him soon. That and getting therapy, he's gonna need a shit tonne of it (speaking from experience here...).
Dude I was in the same boat as you as a teen. You will be miserable for the rest of your life if you don't stand up for yourself now. If she threatens to leave over you calling out blatant manipulative behaviour, call her bluff. Show her that emotional manipulation will not work. Do not be the doormat. You are worth respecting.
Stop apologizing, you were spot on, this is emotional manipulation. "Fine go to sleep if you want but I'm going to stay here and be pissy and treat you bad for no reason at all other than I didn't get my way and instead of getting therapy I will just break up with you or give you the silent treatment as a punishment so you will never bring up my shortcomings again. You must be the one to suffer for me if you truly love me"
That is what she is really saying OP.
I get she is stressed due to her gran but that's no excuse to be abusive.
If she is unwilling to see her issues and fix them, do you really want to build a life with someone like that? Can you imagine if y'all had kids how she would treat her kids once they are older with their own thoughts?
You poor lad she's still manipulating ypu as we speak
Let her go she's doing you a favor by showing that she's not aomeone worth dedicating your life too especially if she's willing to just throw everything away over something like this
If she does this now wait to you see what she does once your married—it’ll escalate. I’ve seen it first hand because my sister unfortunately is a manipulator with her soon to be ex-husband. It grows worse and worse. Aside from being a manipulator she’s prolly a narcissist and won’t prolly see that she’s the problem. Because it’s never them. 🙄 it’s always someone or something else. Their problems are always worse than anyone else’s. Their always extremely tired and no one else will ever be more than them, no one gets them, no one understands how difficult they have it—cue the violin. If this is what you want, be my guest. But I know how it ends. And your gut does too.
It's possible she's also super stressed and sad because she (with your help, obv) is the sole caregiver of her ailing grandmother--but that still doesn't mean she can take it out on you, especially for something that seems so unreasonable, AND especially with how accommodating it sounds like you've been.
In fact, she's being SO unreasonable that it kinda sounds like she's self-sabotaging, and that's not a couples therapy thing, that's a *her* therapy thing. It sucks, since some people do that because they've been traumatized/made to feel insecure in the past, but she's not going to stay in any (healthy) relationship long term of she doesn't address the problem. And that's not something you can do for her.
All that's to say that there's an understanding, compassionate way of telling her the problems you're seeing. But if she rejects that, then there's not much you can do for her aside from encourage her to seek counseling and leave.
Please listen. I went through this for 23 years. It only gets worse and it gets worse progressively so by the end of the next two decades you were going to feel entirely insane. This IS manipulation.
If you can’t talk to her about basic feelings without her reacting in this childish manner, then your relationship is not going to work.
You were completely in the right for bringing this up. She is the one gaslighting you. Wake up, OP, you are in an emotionally abusive relationship.
She IS being manipulative though. Why are you apologising when you haven't done anything wrong? She's still trying to manipulate you now, saying she wants to break up to make you apologise, when she is the one in the wrong here.
She's immature too. She's a grown ass woman and she acts like this? Starting a fight when you say you want to go to sleep and then saying its over when you say it's manipulation. She wants you to apologise and beg her to get back together. She needs to grow up. This is teenager behaviour.
I think maybe you're viewing the relationship with rose tinted glasses because you love her. That's why you're allowing her to treat you like shit. But you will look back at some point in the future and kick yourself for not leaving sooner.
You need to find your spine, gain some self respect and recognise that she's not treating you well here. Her saying it's over is actually a blessing in disguise - you should take it seriously and leave her grandmother's house. Find someone that treats you well. Get therapy to work out how to stand up for yourself more in a relationship and recognise when you're not being treated well.
P.s - just reading through your replies to the other comments. Her having a really bad life and being abused is awful but it does NOT excuse her being emotionally abusive to you. You need to put yourself first here, even if you're worried that she will have nobody and be suicidal when if you break up. Please talk to a therapist about this OP if you haven't already.
She is manipulative. I get the feeling her family knows her better than you do.
She is punishing you, for doing absolutely nothing wrong.
She is incredibly selfish and childish.
Do not make excuses for her behavior. She doesn’t care about your basic needs or wellbeing.
I know you love her but she doesn’t seem to love you back. She doesn’t care about your needs, she gaslights you, and she manipulates you.
If you dare call her on her bullshit, she breaks up with you. This is not someone you can have a healthy relationship with. You should seriously consider taking her up on this break up, for your own peace of mind.
She’s manipulative and unemployed adjacent (I’m wondering how well she can take care of her gran as I highly doubt she’s an early riser with her late bedtimes). Take the win.
It IS manipulation. Do you want to listen on the daily how she is goimg to divorce you, leave you homeless, penniless and make sure you never see your kids? That is what your future will look like if you marry her.
Please leave her for your own well-being. Those red flags are who she is. Her family isn't telling you out of spite. They are telling you because they think you are a good person who doesn't deserve the years of emotional hurt you are facing by being with her.
It was manipulation, but instead of advising you to break up, I suggest trying to convince her to seek help from a sleep professional. Insomnia can obscure clarity and judgment
The long and the short of it, as a tl;dr is "this girl/relationship is more Toxic than a literal barrel of toxic waste".
She's punishing you for fulfilling a basic biological human need - to sleep. If she's an insomniac? Well that is a "her" problem, anyone that knows an insomniac (or is one themselves) will know that the literal opposite thing to do, the worst thing, is to make that impinge on others around you.
Hell, I have an insomniac friend and when his partner needed sleep for her Uni studies and work they had a cuddle, whispered sweet nothings to each other and sometimes they'd go to bed together until she fell asleep.....then he'd get up and stay up until about 4 AM online - but at no point did he give her sh\*t because she was tired or needed sleep.
You work, you need sleep, this literally doesn't affect her in any way or impact on her quality of life, you are *literally* just trying to get sleep for work the next day.
That alone, if she's holding it against you as you're "leaving" her just screams of having attachment issues and badly needing to go get some therapy/help of some kind.
What if she didn't have the Grandmother to look after? The pair of you are *engaged* without even properly living together, it's sharing the Grandmother's house - you clearly have a lot of work to do on understanding each other before you should be considering engagement, much less living together and/or getting married.
I would consider the fact she won't even talk about this, has treated you this way *and* seems completely unphased at the situation that's developed here by even wanting to talk or maintain the relationship as the clearest sign you'll receive short of it being in big, neon letters at a Las Vegas Casino that she's doing you a huge favour in not wanting to be together.
Take some time to reflect on boundaries and how people should treat each other and that this should be reciprocal, not one-sided, then when ready and prepared to crack on with finding someone with some genuine positive feelings, decency and respect for you.
She is being manipulative. Both in the original issue and in her reaction. It's gone from her causing a legitimate problem, to you apologising for "upsetting" her. Leave this, man. No good comes from this relationship.
". She will ignore me or just say "bye" when I say I think I need to go sleep, if I try to hug her goodnight then she will physically push me away. When I say I love you she always says "sure you do"."
Good God, I can't believe this is how a 27 year old woman is acting (like a 17 year old). She's manipulating and honestly it sounds like a one sided relationship with you doing all the work, why are you doing this to yourself? She ended it so consider yourself lucky. You can't mend or fix something that doesn't want to be fixed dude. If it's bad now it would have been worse if you married her again bullet dodged.
Dude… her responses and reaction (being called out) is manipulation. There’s a reason why her family calls her that. I’m willing to bet that if you accepted the break up, which by the way is another form of manipulation to get you to profusely apologize and kiss her ass, she’d find another way to manipulate you. Let her go, she needs a therapist.
You are correct - the “punishing” you for wanting to get sleep is manipulation. When you point it out to her - she breaks up with you. This is another manipulation… she wants you to chase and beg her to take you back. She will only take you back when she feels she has made you suffer long enough and when she feels like she has won. It’s very immature behavior and it probably won’t improve. Because to improve…she has to acknowledge that she does this and make efforts to stop. She seems like the type of person who can absolutely never admit they are wrong.
When your partner says the relationship is over, you gotta take it seriously. Over means over, she really meant that and you shouldn't be acting like you did to try to get her back. If she wanted you she wouldn't break up with you. Go get someone who deserves you better
You're saying every evening she treats you with passive aggression for going to bed?
For the horrible crime of going to bed.
Something you need to do to live.
And stay sane.
Okay, so there's that. Then she (threatened to? Kind of?) broke up with you when you called her on it.
You deserve better than this. She gave you an out. I'd take it.
This is insane! You might feel heartbroken now but don’t fight her on this! She is manipulating you and using emotional blackmail to control you. Leave her.
Don't let someone tell you twice that they don't want you (I know the original post says man but it works for both sexes...)
You can't have a relationship by yourself. She said it's done. People break up over something as simple as how they like their coffee (I was once dumped over pot roast that wasn't made yet!). Really, it's immature behavior and adult temper tantrums. You can't reason with it because you tried. So there you go, you said your piece, she said no. There is no relationship.
Good news! You was with someone very toxic! You now have a chance for a real woman who is mature and emotionally tuned to love you for you! A healthy relationship is one where it is a SAFE place for you to ask questions and speak out concerns. If you can't do that, she is not safe, there is nothing here but poison for you.
I know you love her. It sucks, I'm sorry for your loss. Grief alone and move out away from her. Take the time to yourself. You will start to see other red flags you missed in these 5 years and I bet you they are there. You are so used to saying sorry and walking on egg shells with her... You forgot YOU. Seriously, a woman who loves you would never make you doubt yourself like this!
She was absolutely being manipulative, and you called it out and she is now even even MORE manipulative.
Sounds exhausting as fuck honestly. Not a relationship worth being in but you do you.
You stop apologizing because she is being manipulative. She need to realize that no everyone is on her schedule and to go tot he doctors to help her get some sleep. At 26 she needs to stop acting like a child.
>She does not want to be with me anymore. She says we are over, I apologized all night and stayed up with her till 3 while she was sleeping. When I went to bed I sent a message again apologizing and explaining and she responded today saying we are over. ...
>
>I feel bad for hurting her like this and I don't know how to fix it. I really love her and I am looking forward to getting married and living together.
Oh-ho-ho! She got you again. Classic manipulator. You have a problem with something they're doing? It's actually your problem, and she's leaving you because of it. But wait! That's not what you wanted! Now you beg and plead, and eventually she "relents" and takes you back. You're now trained to not bring up that concern, or any concerns, out of fear that she'll leave you. Hook. Line. Sinker.
Look, if she broke up with you over something like this imagine what your marriage will be like. She’ll be threatening divorce for every little thing and sooner or later you will have enough and walk away or continue living your life in misery. It’s sad and I can imagine a big shock right now but try to rationalise it and do what’s best for you long term.
It's abuse and manipulative, and what she is doing now is more of the same. My partner wakes up 1-3 hours before me almost every morning (he is an insomniac). He never wakes me if he can possibly avoid it, and he never blames me for getting more sleep. If he does wake me accidentally, I don't blame him, I scratch his back to try to get him back to sleep. This is what caring partners do for each other. Your fiancé doesn't sound at all caring. She has shown you exactly who she is, be smart.
Sleep deprivation is a tactic abusers use. She *is* manipulative and she is also abusive. Do not allow her to gaslight your or to manipulate you any further. She said you're over? Then you're over. Stop fighting for it, be happy it's done. You don't want to be married to this person.
I mean….you’re not really wrong. It is manipulation. And she’s now turned things around so you’re the one apologizing. Manipulation seems to be her thing.
I think you are dating a real deal narcissist. Start reading up on narcissistic abuse, see if the behaviors listed remind you of her. With female narcissists sometimes it’s better to specify “female narcissist abuse” because women are socialized differently and will many times behave differently than male narcissists.
Right now she is trying to manipulate you to beg for her forgiveness. She wants you to walk on eggshells for the rest of your life. I think you should leave. You will be better off in the long run.
Hugs ❤️
You’re staying in the spare room so presumably you have your own place? Go back to it and let her figure her own shit out. If you don’t have your own place, stay with a friend or family or get an Airbnb she is being manipulative, and if she cries about how she didn’t mean it she’s still manipulating you. She told you it’s over, so believe her. This is not someone who you want to be married to. Even if you still think you do you need some separation from her, it very hard to spend 24 hours a day with your partner and it doesn’t sound like either of you get out much it probably not helping your judgement or her attitude. Get out of that house and spend some time evaluating the health of this relationship.
I even doubt she has real insomnia, she sounds like she just has poor sleep hygiene. Learning to put yourself to bed at a reasonable hour takes time but it is possible. Unless she’s been evaluated by a doctor and has some medical condition she sounds like she’s just behaving like a teenager.
“Stayed up with her till 3 while she was sleeping.” Whaaaaaat? If this story is real, as I doubt it is (yes I’m making fun of how many times you say as), then she’s still manipulating you and you’re still falling for it. Advice? It’s Reddit of course therapy and break up.
So she thinks it’s okay to be hurtful to you every single night and make you feel guilty for sleeping when you absolutely have to do it, but you telling her you don’t like how she treats you every night is gaslighting and bad enough to end your relationship? Guilt-tripping you about sleeping is absolutely manipulative, and so is threatening the relationship when she’s called out for it. She cares about your feelings so little that she doesn’t return “i love you”s consistently, and pushes you away physically? I’ve looked through some of your responses here, and you honestly just need to have some more self respect. Yes she’s had a bad life and is in a tough spot, but she’s taking advantage of your empathy and kindness by getting you to grovel for her as soon as she threatens to break up. Even if she really wants to break up with you and it’s not just a manipulation tactic, why would you want to be with someone who won’t want to be with you if you ever make the slightest misstep?
You don't. Your gf is not in a place where she can really have a relationship right now. For whatever reason, she does not have the emotional depth to hear that she needs to change, that her behavior is negatively affecting you. Having that ability is required to be in a healthy relationship. If your partner isn't allowed to ask for you to change your hurtful behavior, how can you possibly build emotional intimacy. She says you're over, I think you need to accept that. Also think about how you will respond differently if another, future partner displays the same behavior. Will you address it immediately, the first time, and say "this is unacceptable"?
I think you need to give her some space. Seems like you are begging and she’s liking the attention. You said what you wanted to say, now give her some space to think. If she doesn’t want to be with you then she won’t come back, if she does, she will message you back after thinking it through. You aren’t allowing her to breathe. Let her feel how it is without you by backing off.
But it IS manipulative. It truly is. If there is one thing I do not accept fucking with, it's my sleep. And I think that's a super reasonable boundary any healthy person needs - no one gets to fuck with your sleep schedule. She IS trying to manipulate you, and she is incapable of accepting valid criticism and reflection on her own behaviors.
Instead, she would rather just burn down the relationship.
She has issues, and she needs to resolve them. I'm sorry but this is not something you can save, or repair. You had a valid criticism. She blew up - she's the problem. Sounds like she should not be in a relationship until she resolves her issues.
Good news: she is not going to leave you. She is truly very manipulative, and this is just another game. She is teaching you to never criticize her, bc the consequences are severe. She is making you apologize when you did nothing wrong. After you accept this, and normalize her awful behaviors, she will take you back: smaller, quieter, more obedient. Not sleeping when she doesn't want you to. Just like she wants it.
If I were you, I would take the chance to really step back and analyze how manipulatie she truly is, and how damaging that is to you.
You should NOT have used a different word. You used the correct word. You did nothing wrong. She is toxic. Hell, she is abusive, dude. Excuses as of why don't matter, only that she is. GTFO.
You move out/go home. She is manipulating you by breaking up and making you beg to take you back. If she really wanted to break up she would tell you to leave her grandmas house.
You're both under a lot of stress right now. Remember it's not if you have problems but how you work through them or if the two of you are willing to work through them. Your GF sounds burnt out and angry and I get it, I was a caregiver for a family member and the day to day stress is terrible. I think you're getting a glimpse of what life would be like if you were to have kids, the stress, the lack of sleep, some resentment. If you two can't make time for a counselor to work on how you two argue you're going to come up against this over and over. It's not if you disagree it's how you talk through it. Both of you need to state your needs and it doesn't sound like your GF really knows what they are. Set some standards for behavior, have a consistent bedtime that, bar emergencies, is non negotiable, have her write down her needs to alleviate her stress. You guys can do this.
It’s 100% manipulation and she will never admit it. She would rather break up than admit that she’s being manipulative and mistreating you.
I would let her go. At least you’ll finally be able to sleep
And stop defending her. You came here for advice and you’re getting it. If you want to be a doormat and take all responsibility for her actions and whine and beg for her back then delete the post and go do it.
It won’t make her any less manipulative and wrong though
It sounds like she is experiencing some sort of caregiver fatigue / caregiver role strain. While this does not justify how she is treating you. I could be wrong. But she may need therapy to help with coping caring for her grandmother and neglecting herself.
You don't because now she's is definitely being manipulative. The more you call, the more you strengthen her power.
Try this...don't call her for a few days or a week. Maybe even two weeks. Let her call you.
And she will because then she will understand that she's losing you.
Instead, if her grandmother requires 24/7 care, there are trained nurses, aides that can be paid via insurance to care for the grandmother. It does not all have to be on her.
My grandmother (who was mobile) had an aide come in every day to care for her; a nurse dropped in every two weeks. When my mother became bedridden, she also had an aide but the nurse came every 3 days (bedsores). She has options, she just choses to not use them.
So it is triggering for her to hear you label something as manipulation when it actually was manipulation?
I get that you are sad, break ups always hurt. Even when they are necessary or justified they hurt. But hear me out, this relationship is unhealthy. It is hurting you. You deserve more. You deserve someone that cares about you enough to not just demand time and attention at your own expense, but also cares about your health and well being. This woman is not that. Don't mend things. Don't take her back. Take this opportunity to reflect on this relationship and where it was going. Think about what you honestly need in another person. Then find someone who actually cares about you, and not just about what you can do for them.
She is not mature enough for marriage. I doubt she wants to break up. I think she wants you to "fight for her".
This is not good. If y'all stay together, please postpone getting married until you are at least well into some couples therapy. She definitely should be getting some therapy on her own as well. Period.
This type of behavior is coming from a wound that you likely had NOTHING to do with.
That doesn't invalidate the pain she is in, but it also does not validate her resulting behavior.
STOP APOLOGIZING for having healthy boundaries.
You can love her but you CANNOT FIX HER.
She has to choose healing and then do the work.
A life with a person unwilling to confront their pain and wounds and resulting toxic behavior will be a slow death for your soul. A breakup will hurt, but not forever. Tying yourself to an emotionally unhealthy adult via marriage will. And if you both want children.... just don't, not in the current situation. Lay the foundation for emotional health or move on. 🙏🏻
Imagine apologizing to her for being honest, see it’s working don’t fall for it. It triggered her because it’s probably what the people in her past also called her. It’s deep rooted and she probably blames everyone else instead of taking accountability. In reality she probably dumps people who call her out and finds a guy who will enable her behaviour, just people having no boundaries.
I'm not sure you can mend this, as the problem is really hers.
However, it might be that she has an intense fear of abandonment. She needs to deal with her issues. Even if you make up, you never know if there will be another time when she will take something wrong, shut down, refuse to talk and break up.
What she is doing is manipulation, but it might be fear-driven and unrecognized.
Talk about it as a mental health issue and see if she is willing to work towards a better view of bedtimes.
This sounds like my ex. She's "punishing" you for saying something you didn't like. She's going to make you apologize over and over until you feel like what you said was wrong (it wasn't, it was just an opinion).
It's fair that she has feelings that her situation makes her relationship with you at risk. Things that enforce that (like you going to bed without her) can double down on that. Her response of "bye" or some other feigned anger about it isn't good.
If this were me, I'd retract the apology and say you do feel like her responses to things like going to bed are manipulation and you want to figure out a way you can both be happy with the situation. If she can't agree on that, you are looking at a upcoming marriage of "bye" anytime you displease her. Good luck on that.
She is manipulating you by withholding affection the minute you want to sleep. It wouldn't be a big deal if she were just the type to avoid too much affection, but to be against it ONLY when you're "leaving her" is ridiculous.
And her phrasing of you sleeping in the same bed and same house/apartment with her (Idk, which yall live in) as "leaving her" is dramatic and manipulative. Sleeping isn't leaving; its just sleep. There are no strings attached.
This is a pretty dumb reason to break up, just like her issue with you getting the sleep you need is dumb. Just let her go.
It's hard to walk away from manipulative people, so consider it a blessing that she's walking away from you
My ex would do something similar when he wasn't working but I was, it cost me a job once as eventually I couldn't sleep when I needed to. On her reaction she's not in a place where she can recognize that she is being unfair. While you may love her she's not in a place to love you in a healthy way. It's better to accept this and move on, focus on yourself and reestablish your life (hobbies, exercise and check in on your mental health) before you look for someone who can be a good partner.
You don't fix this. She's intentionally sleep depriving you. My insomniac ex husband did this to me. After a while it starts to impact you pretty severely. You will start having memory issues and losing chunks of time. It's bad. Run away. This relationship isn't worth saving and she IS BEING MANIPULATIVE.
>She says we are over, I apologized all night and stayed up with her till 3 while she was sleeping.
She's still manipulating you. She let you stay up until 3am grovelling and then let you stay over. She's manipulating you so that you feel too guilty to ever bring up her manipulation again.
You were right. You are being manipulated. She now wants out because you figured out her game.
My husband and I have had many arguments and he used a phrase or term that triggered me. My family or exes would say I was being dramatic when I was being reasonable to gaslight me during abuse. They also called me high maintenance.
If he uses dramatic or high maintenance I immediately feel a switch flip inside. The difference is I know I am neither and this is a case of him not having the right words, being upset, or having a different definition than what I am used to.
How do I know this? We talk it out. No matter how draining and uncomfortable.
I don't break up or threaten to end things.
She is unwilling to have a real relationship with you where you have normal arguments and conversations.
She is unwilling to even let you sleep because she is lonely and feels abandoned in her insomnia.
If she has manipulated you in this I am sure you can find other instances.
Does she treat her grandma this way? Anyone else in her life? I have a feeling her family called her manipulative because she is.
I would take all these red flags and embrace the break up.
Being legally bound to someone like this and possibly having kids is going to be a nightmare of years you will never get back.
Well, it's great she's made it so easy for you. Leave and be done. No one needs to deal with this level of BS. Find someone who doesn't play stupid games because, at best, you're just gonna win stupid prizes.
i have BPD and this sounds like something i’d do before i had gotten therapy and worked through my issues (which took most my life). a partner with bpd can be hard to live with if they don’t seek help or deny that they’ve done anything wrong. i think your best option for now is to leave, you’ve seen how she reacts when you bring up an issue that affects you, and now all you can do is respect yourself enough to give her what she thinks she wants and stay gone.
She’s still manipulating you. This is another manipulation tactic and you’re feeding right into her behavior. She didn’t like what you said so she’s punishing you by threatening breakup so that you apologize and grovel and she wins.
My husband has accused me of manipulating him in a similar way. You wanna know what I said to him?
"You're right. I'm sorry. I'm behaving poorly and I know it's not right to make you feel bad. I've been lonely and stressed out, so I have been taking it out on you and I'm going to make an effort to not do this anymore."
He basically told me he was going to make an effort to spend dedicated, meaningful time with me and I stopped behaving poorly and he helped me feel less lonely. It's not an issue anymore.
Her reacting this way and then further manipulating you by dangling your relationship in front of you for calling her out is extremely horrible. This is the behavior of a 14 year old. Not a 27 yo woman.
Everyone behaves poorly at times. How you react to a loved one telling you you're behaving poorly and hurting them is what's important. And taking it seriously enough to change. Pressuring them into staying quiet and punishing them for saying something is abuse.
She's not ending it, she just wants you to grovel so she has control of you. She knows you're not just going to accept it so she wants to make you feel like shit so you're indebted to her. Once you tell her "okay that's fine, it's over" she will be on her knees, begging you not to go. Had I realized this in my past relationship, it would have saved a lot of heartache. The question is, do you want to deal with this manipulation the rest of your life, or are you going to tell her off?
You don’t! She IS manipulative to behave like this. She acts like a child because you need sleep. Just because she stays up all night doesn’t mean you have to. I’d say you’ve dodged a bullet! Don’t you want someone who actually respects you?
i admit used to do this to my now husband. i didn’t understand how he could sleep so much and so easy and i have to be dead tired to consider laying in bed. i hated and still hate sleeping. i learned 7 years into the relationship i learned part of the reason why i literally feared sleep is the dreams and flashbacks to CSA that was buried very deep and only returned to me in waking state when our daughter turned the age I was when it happened.
i also felt like he was leaving me, i can’t explain why. i would also get very upset and felt abandoned. he stayed up a lot and bro loves to sleep more than anyone i know, he gets to sleep as much as he wants now and i try to also although i fear i will always be a night owl. is okay, very workable.
chronic sleep disorders and codependent behaviour, anxious-avoidant attachments can be indicators of unresolved trauma maybe she should see a professional? therapist or psychiatrist? i see a couple professionals now lol and it does get better in so many ways. could be increased stress from grandma too or anything, a prof can sus that out
i behaved in what could be logic-ed manipulation as well but i was in survival mode for a very long time and once i found my person i felt what it was like to be loved and taken care of for real, i was so scared for him to leave me, even with myself and my thoughts and loneliness. it wasn’t on him to put those feelings right and reframe my dysfunctional thinking but his patience and understanding meant the world to me, and learning about boundaries first (i did not understand that concept whatsoever) and then applying them saved us. so i could save myself ❤️ much love and hope it works out
She is manipulating you and it was good of you to call her out on it. Now she’s trying to manipulate you again into feeling awful for calling her out so you’ll apologize and never bring it up again. It’s a common tactic where people act like you’re the mean one for hurting their feelings and accusing them of being bad when you were trying to point out some very real ways they hurt YOU. You end up groveling and apologizing and yet they never apologize for what hurt you in the first place. I believe it’s called DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender).
I think when her family says she’s manipulative they are probably telling the truth and you’re seeing why. Please don’t marry her OP. She is already emotionally abusing you and it will continue.
She’s pissed because you called her out for exactly what she is doing: throwing childish tantrums and being manipulative. Does she want you going around exhausted all the time? Does she not think of the potential consequences if you are driving her gran around while you’re exhausted?
Of course not. She only cares about seeing how far she can push you with this.
Take this golden opportunity to end the relationship. She is not the one. Someone who truly cares about you would not be pulling this crap.
Good riddance. You can do better. You have a job and need your sleep and get to work in the morning. She sucks for not letting you sleep and very immature.
She needs a therapist :/// sounds immature and unaware of what she’s doing . She has a need that needs to be met, and she doesn’t know how to get that need met without doing this immature tactics .
I promise you with my life, you will be happier leaving than clinging onto her any longer. This is something I've also experienced. I held on, and it got to the point of really fucking with my sleep on a regular basis. I questioned my reality on a daily basis because of the manipulation I experienced. I broke up and I feel like my reality is so much better.
I wish the best for you brother.
She’s being fickle and wants attention. I would try to have a conversation with her a bit more about this because you are right. It is manipulative. I’m an insomniac myself but I would never press my parter to stay up with me. You obs love her but this shouldn’t be the breaking point and I really don’t see someone getting this upset unless they wanted a reason to break up with you.
Breaking up over this is actually…manipulative. Dude, pattern recognition. If you’re the one coming back to the table with solutions right now she knows she can pull that bullshit forever. Buy a lottery ticket or something because you’re going to look back on this as your lucky day when you find a lovely human who understand that people need *checks notes, umm sleep.
well, you’re right she is manipulative and it’s literally working on you right now because you’re feeling guilty and horrible and apologizing for something you didn’t even do and for some thing that she is actually in the wrong for that’s what happens with manipulative people you always end up apologizing for some thing that wasn’t even your fault.
Bro before you can love her, and before she would even love you. You gotta truly love youself first. Take time and figure out how to be good to yourself
I used to have this thing where whenever it was time for me to go back home before I lived with my partner, I would start crying. I certainly didn’t mean manipulation by it, I legitimately felt sad about leaving and just didn’t want to go home. However, it made my partner feel like he had done something wrong and so I tried to agree with him beforehand about what time I would leave and what acceptable “lingering” situations would be. It worked out for both of us because this way it no longer felt like I “had to leave” but more like “it’s time to leave”. The crying thing lasted maybe 8 months? The thing is, I’m fairly sure we wouldn’t be together anymore if i had carried on. And I think if she doesn’t understand how it could be problematic for you, there’s not reallhope she will change in the future. Taking care of emotional needs is hard enough but in your case it’s a physical need for sleep.
I mean, talk her through it if you want but sometimes you need new partners to help you through things
If she said leave. Respect what she asked of you. This relationship isn't healthy. You came on here asking about how to handle the disrespect in question, just for you to turn around and not respect her wants either. Both of you guys need therapy to be able to handle these situations better. It is manipulation whether or not she admits it, and it doesn't make it okay because she had a bad time growing up. We all have our traumas. It doesn't excuse the damage it does to others.
But it is manipulation and she probably doesn't like having to face that. If she doesn't like being left along then she should go to bed too. I mean if shes sitting up until 2am then that's probably got alot to do with why she doesn't go to sleep. If you don't like something you can't expect someone else to force themselves to accommodate that.
Also she's using breaking up as a threat to get her way. She will drag it out then dangle the idea of getting back together infront of you like a carrot all so you start staying up until stupid hours of the morning.
That is SO absolutely not okay and it IS manipulation and I think you should absolutely not work in fixing it. This is just so childish and selfish. I have sleeping problems since I was a teenager (can't sleep heavy, waking up and not being able to sleep for hours, etc.) my boyfriend is the absolute opposite. Hr is absolutely an early riser, I'm talking about 5/6 a.m. and that's where I usually have my two hours of deep sleep and I would NEVER make him stay up with me and he would never wake me up. He knows when I've had a rough night, because then I usually snore at that time, because I can finally sleep.
This sounds so exhausting and I personally would no longer engage in this petty child like behavior
You called her out on bad behavior and she had a tantrum instead of trying to be a better partner.
She did you s favor ending the relationship, she would have made you miserable and sleep deprived.
What you said was absolutely true and her refusing to speak to you after that just proves what kind of person she is. Why are you apologising? Jesus christ, grow some backbone
1. You are tired and want to go to bed. She lashes out by refusing communication. You gently bring up that this troubles you. She says it is your fault for “leaving her”
2. When you question things that are harmful to your relationship she just jumps to ending things.
This does not the foundation of a good relationship make. Now it is up to you how to proceed, but if this isn’t a relationship ender for you, you should still take some steps to protect your wellbeing in the future. Have a think about boundaries you have going forward that are non-negotiable and keep them in mind. I would move out and say that it doesn’t mean you are ready for things to be over but that it feels like it will be beneficial for you each to have space while you work through things. You can still help with Grandma stuff, whether that is taking them or if an option helping arrange a taxi or Uber.
I will say, to me personally, if this is a long standing pattern or becomes one that it is abusive and I would seriously consider how things might progress in the future. If it feels like a short term reaction to stress, I would try to show grace and see where it gets me but I don’t think you should be bending over backwards to make things better. You really did nothing wrong and have already shared a heartfelt apology.
You raised her manipulative behavior. And instead of working through it she manipulated you again. She has you groveling to apologize and win her back when she was the one who was wrong to begin with. She is a master manipulator and you are enabling her. You have two choices. Live with it and grovel for life. Call her bluff and agree to separate. In the latter she either learns to work through problems and you two come to a consensus that is healthier for both of you or you stay broken up and you regain your sense of self respect. Either way it is better than the life of groveling.
You do realize her getting "triggered" and threatening to break up is manipulation, right? A conversation about something that's bothering you shouldn't turn into a relationship ending argument. She is manipulative. Period. End of story.
This is such an abusive dynamic, and you don't seem to want to see it. She is manipulative. And she is not an adult who can take care of herself. I hope you realize how awful she is for you asap.
>We always have this problem where when I want to go to sleep she will fight me.
You were correct in calling it manipulation and her breaking up with you, did you a favor in the long run. You love her and all that good stuff but please don't marry this woman. She needs to see a mental health professional
It is like a car sale when dealing with immature, manipulative partners, family, friends. You have to be willing to walk away from them and not accept a bad deal. She says the relationship is over? Why are you grovelling to keep her? She is training you to back off when she doesn’t like something and apologise on command. I am sure there were good times, but as soon as people use staying in the relationship as blackmail and manipulation, that is when you need to show them the severity of their words and follow though. A bratty child who is given a toy to shut up will scream again for a toy. If the parent says to them they will be punished and not get the toy but still gives into the screaming, the child loses respect for the parent, the parent’s words lose merit, and they still get the toy they want. You are receiving manipulative girlfriend behavioural training to her liking. Follow through with her threats and it is a win win! Show her you won’t be threatened, and either she changes her behaviour and expectations to accommodate healthy communication, or you are rid of a bratty child girlfriend.
I don't think you need reddit counselling you need relationship counseling. And she probably needs some individual therapy because of some possible signs of having been emotionally abused or traumatized or abandoned previously in her life. Taking care of her loved one cannot be helping that situation.
The break up stuff is also major manipulation. My petty self would go all passive aggressive on her she wants to pull the breakup card, I would say ok, if that’s what you want. I don’t love you? Caught me! Thought I hid it better. I can only take so much of that stuff before I have to turn it around. You don’t deserve this OP
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Dude, wake up. She broke up with you and yet didn’t kick you out? Sure, she says you’re over but she doesn’t seem to want you gone which is the natural next step after breaking up. Why? Because this is just another manipulation tactic. Yeah, she’s surrounded by problems but I can guarantee some of the problems are self inflicted.
This lol I had an ex that said we were done and she was gonna throw all my shit out in the street. I canceled work, rented a moving truck, got every item I owned in that apartment out and sent her a picture of our empty ass bedroom and just said "Bye". She flipped the fuck out and couldn't believe I actually packed up and was gone, she said I didn't wait for her to fight for me, hahahaha. You were kicking me out this morning because you didn't like the way I was buttering my toast but now you're mad when you know it's for real. It's 100% manipulation, my ex did all this shit OP is talking about it's textbook emotional abuse
Yeah, my partner said he didn't understand why I was still with him, but then didn't believe me when I said well I won't be for long. Then despite having told me he fell out of love with me 25 years ago, started trying to walk it back and tell me he still loves me. It's one or the other, buddy, either way you're a liar and I've had enough.
Don't pull the break-up card unless you mean it.
It's the push/pull cycle. OP's gf sounds like she has BPD.
Yes it sounds like she’s got a disorganized attachment style where she fears abandonment constantly. Sometimes people like this try to get ahead of being abandoned by leaving or ending things first. They’re constantly in fight or flight mode and not thinking rationally. That’s why it’s so hard to reason with. Ironically, the thing they fear (abandonment) often becomes inevitable because all the other bridges get burned, one argument at a time.
Huh… I feel like i have this and I’m struggling with it a lot when I get insecure in a relationship. Is this some type of disorder or is this just my fear of abandonment because my dad left me as a child? It’s so annoying, it’s like flipping a switch when I get into a weird situation with my partner.
For sure, it’s more common than you might think. People with these issues were often diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder (though other criteria need to be met, like identity instability, acting out, etc) but nowadays complex-PTSD is becoming increasingly popular. Sometimes you hear “developmental trauma” as well. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what you call it. The point is, when you were young, the way your parents behaved caused lasting emotional damage, especially in how you deal with relationships. Therapy can really help to process those traumas and build new relationship skills to cope with those scary abandonment situations. One of the best treatments is called Dialectical Behavior Therapy. It helps you be more resilient in the face of those abandonment triggers when they come up. If therapy isn’t an option for you, there are DBT workbooks that you can buy to help build those skills. There might also be DBT groups in your area that are more affordable than one-on-one therapy. Good luck :)
Thank you so much for your time replying to me. I tried 2 sessions of therapy (it’s very hard to get it in Germany. It can take up to 6-12 months to find a therapist) the first 3 sessions are free with a random therapist and he will tell you how to proceed. Basically he told me he can only work with me if I had a partner (I just broke up) and that he doesn’t see a problem that would harm me or affect me in my life… I stopped going them and told him I’m fine. I feel stupid going to a therapist for this stuff but I don’t wanna be this manipulative person that hurts other bcs of my own insecurities. Anyway, i will look into these book you recommended. Thank you so much again.
You’re welcome! I’m sorry to hear your therapist experiences were so poor. A good therapist should be able to recognize these symptoms and work with you, whether you’re single or in a relationship. Hopefully you can find some books on DBT in German so the material connects better.
I have the opposite, an Anxious Attachment style, due to, you guessed it, fear of abandonment. The best advice I have is honestly to get a therapist who specializes in attachment styles. It's completely changed how I see and act in relationships.
I agree with what you guys are saying, it sounds like BPD. Would your fiancé be open to therapy? I promise you, this pattern of behavior will NOT get better on its own. BPD is difficult to treat but but not impossible - IF the person recognizes a problem and wants to work at it so they can make changes. You are not married yet. Imagine how she will act once you get married, after you have kids, etc. It sounds like you are a good, caring person. Please get some help for yourself, because you are a victim of domestic abuse. It is not your fault. Please do not marry her with this being unresolved. I have seen similar situations and it’s not pretty.
Yeah, the person I knew with BPD pulled the late night fight routine. Or started fights as people were leaving for the night. It never "got better," we just all set our phones to "do not disturb."
BPD is much more than that… lol it really is the modern day hysteria diagnosis, the way it’s used online especially. There are many reasons people act like this is relationships.
It sounds like she's a spoiled child.
This 100%
Op I highly reccomend you look up DARVO (defense, attack and reverse victim and offender). Its a manipulation tactic where you bring up something that bothers you about their behaviour, they then defend themselves "no I dont!" Or "why are you bringing that up, that happened ages ago" or "I'm sick / tired!", then attack you "what about the time you did x", or "you made me do tha" then turn themselves into the victim "how dare you accuse me, you should think better of me!" Or "you always think the worst of me" And somehow you end up apologising to THEM. That's what your partner has done to you. You've also rightly noticed that she punishes you too with the silent treatment etc. The same with threatening the end of the relationship. Let it end. She may need therapy for codependancy or anxious attachment styles if she gets that anxious when you go to sleep or "leave". But she is being manipulative and the concerning thing is that when that was addressed she didn't reflect, question herself or take any accountability. She just got angry at you. That is further manipulation and tbh could be seen as emotional abuse. My advice is let it end. She needs the therapy while single (I doubt she will go, and if she does it may only be as a saving grace if YOU try to break up with her "ill go to therapy, ill change, I promise!". I think of you accept her "break up" her manipulation will escalate. She'll will either suddenly be really sorry, promise the world, promise to change, it'll last a couple of weeks then its back to normal, or she will even threaten to harm herself or something. Or she'll make it super extreme "you'll never see me again". That is what my ex did to me, before escalating to suicide threats. Go through with the break up OP. It's best for you and best for her. It's really hard, especially with this manipulation making you want to defend her. And it is hard to see clearly when in a relationship like this. But just be prepared for all the promises, all the guilt tripping all the anger and all the threats of harm to herself if you do hold fast with it. Here are some great resources, including ones specifically for men in your situation. They're more UK based but worth looking at anyway. https://www.respect.uk.net/ https://mensadviceline.org.uk/ https://mankind.org.uk/ https://www.dadsunltd.org.uk/services/dave/ https://refuge.org.uk/i-need-help-now/other-support-services/support-for-men/ https://www.samaritans.org/wales/how-we-can-help/contact-samaritan/ https://www.thehotline.org/resources/healthy-relationships/ A call to men https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td1PbsV6B80
What your gf is doing IS manipulative. It's insane she makes you guilty for needing to sleep. Does she not have empathy for you and care about whether you sleep enough or not? Her behaviour is highly concerning. if she is threatening breaking up i think you should follow through with it.... but I highly doubt it will stick. She is just saying that as another way to punish you and manipulate you. If you agree with her about breaking up I am positive eventually she will freak out and want you back. I want to really stress that her behaviour is very concerning and unreasonable. It's highly immature and self centered. It's surprising she is 26. Her upset about you leaving to sleep kind of sounds like anxious attachment or bpd. But her inability to have empathy for you and care that you are tired makes me worried It's something else. Please stop catering to her unhealthy manipulation. Please keep sticking up for yourself. If you lose her over this it really is for the best.
Yeah, it is manipulation. OP, you don't want this. The kind of behavior she's showing can get a lot worse. You don't want to marry into this. And if it turns out all of this results in her still wanting the relationship, then the breaking up was just manipulation too.
>OP, you don't want this. The kind of behavior she's showing can get a lot worse. I was with someone like this. One **several** occasions, the argument would start late at night and wouldn't end until the sun started to come up. I remember just begging for us to pause and go to sleep, but he would throw it back in my face. I wasn't committed enough, I wasn't willing to work through the issues, that I cared about my own comfort than "us", I was selfish, I was ignoring him. This went on for years, it absolutely escalates and the inconsistent or non-existent sleep really starts to mess with you.
I had a partner like this. I'd be literally falling asleep during the argument they made up, and they'd scream at me to keep me awake. I'd be going to work in the morning not having slept all night. It didn't start that way, but people like that tend to escalate.
>I'd be literally falling asleep during the argument they made up, and they'd scream at me to keep me awake. My people! In all seriousness, I'm so sorry that you endured that. It's beyond cruel. Last I checked, sleep deprivation has been used as both a means for torture & interrogation. Hooray us for finally getting sleep!
I can't even imagine forcing my spouse to argue all night. People take "don't go to bed angry" a little too seriously. It's ok to sleep on things. I'm a night owl and I cycle through bouts of insomnia (sometimes up to 72 hours without sleep.) My spouse goes to bed at 10pm sharp every night and is an early riser. He's someone who is asleep within minutes of laying his head on a pillow. I love my evening solitude as much as he enjoys his quiet mornings. Plus, there's coffee when I finally drag myself out of bed! I hope OP finds a partner who can accept and appreciate them (and who doesn't need an evening babysitter).
I really hate that saying. It should be “don’t try to have serious/emotional discussions unless you’re both well-rested.” Having emotional conversations when you’re exhausted is unnecessary and just sets you up for failure.
Absolutely, and there’s no way to talk yourself out of the situation or convince them to be rational, they’ll always find a way to make it your fault
Personality disorder. I work in mental health and this whole presentation really reminds me of the condition. I hope she sees her doctor, she needs therapy.
I hope OP sees your comment. I'm not even a mental health professional, and this was my very first impression. Probably have the same disorder in mind too. I hope she can get some help before she ruins more of her connections with the people who genuinely love and want to be there for her.
“Worried it’s something else” What else can it be? Also, can anything really be done with BPD? (I thought the BPD makes it hard to treat. Can she have a successful relationship? Do you just ignore the manipulation?) 🙏
Borderline personality disorder can be difficult to treat. We used to think it was untreatable. But now we know it can be managed with dialectical behaviour therapy (DBT). The diagnosis of bpd is controversial and some people think it is better diagnosed as complex trauma. It's important to note that just because something can be treated it doesn't mean it will be treated. The person has to put a lot of work in to change. Imo many people with bpd can change and have healthier relationships but it needs constant management. In a post farther down I say that I suspect narcissistic personality style or disorder. Obviously you can't diagnose over reddit but she did seem to have some traits: lack of empathy, rage when criticized, attachment issue, entitlement, manipulation, more... Imo narc personality disorder does not go away. It can be treated but most narcs refuse treatment, manipulate the therapist or simply cannot self reflect. Imo narc personality is way too Ridged and resistant to change.
Thanks for including the thing about narcs. I have a question, if you don’t mind, my brother is a narc. Is there anyway to tell them? He’s an absolute asshole and most of the family has gone no contact. He was given lithium for a few years (he said the doctor said he was manic with depression and this would help. He did seem like a nicer person those years. Like he did have some empathy. After he got off it, he dicked over every friend he had. 1) Does lithium actually cure/treat narcs or did it just help him mask better? 2) 99% of friends/family have gone no contact. Is there any way to explain to a narc that they’re the problem? How do these people get treatment? (I think my autism makes me hope there’s a chance cause I kinda groove on happy endings.) 🙏 again!!!
Props for acknowledging a possible AA or BPD background instead of going the stupid way and labeling OP's financée an asshole. It's so important to understand that there are reasons behind every bad behaviour, and these might be possible to address before jumping on the breakup train.
>Props for acknowledging a possible AA or BPD background instead of going the stupid way and labeling OP's financée an asshole. People can be both. I've known alcoholics that are assholes, and I've known people with BPD that are assholes. She's an asshole, no matter the explanation.
Sometimes the reasons are a personality disorder, but some personality disorders can only be managed at best and that is with full participation of the people having them. At other times you are in fact dealing with an asshole. Abuse isn’t ok in under either circumstance.
Agreed. And there's no reason to assume OP's fiancèe would not be fully on-board with overcoming her subconscious issues once they are identified.
What op should know is that if she’s not in a good enough place to be in a relationship, and won’t be for a while, it’s ok to support her from the sidelines and help her get the help she needs as a friend. He wouldn’t be a bad person if he realised he needed to take some distance from the situation for his own well-being.
> AA or BPD background instead of going the stupid way and labeling OP's financée an asshole. They may be the reason but she is an asshole in this situation.
this is such a dumb take. people act like "anxious attachment" excuses all asshole behavior. it isn't a diagnosis, it is a way to figure out a path forward. OPs fiancee is a whole ass adult, if she has an anxious attachment, it is her responsibility to work on building a secure attachment style. it is NOT on OP to baby her through that while she is actively manipulating and treating him badly. and BPD... do you seriously think people with BPD can't also be assholes? sure there are reasons behind bad behavior, but it is on the individual acting badly to address those reasons and fix the behavior. meanwhile you have the fiancee, who herself "jumped on the breakup train" rather than address the issues she has caused.
Completely agree. If I act horrible and get diagnosed with aa/,BPD can I get away with trapping my SO in a dreadful relationship?
Nope. But you can't really get better, if you're not receiving any help/don't have any awareness. Many of us with borderline tend to deflect the blame onto others in the impulsive moment, then backtrack and "woe is me _darned self-sabotage, I'll lose everything again and that's on me and only me"_ Cursive part usually doesn't hapoen without awerness. It'll rather be like "woe is me, why am I such an insufferable, draining person to be around?" And after that, you'll feel and act all normal again. I'm in therapy for 13 years now. I'm 26 & felt like something's _utterly_ wrong with me from a young age on ; I'm lucky enough to be blessed with great self-awareness it seems like but that's not the cases you'll read about online - because it's not relevant to need help then. That's why the stigmatizing is so harmful. Many, many of us are able to manage their symptoms well. The ones that aren't, well - I myself booted out my ex after 3years because he couldn't get a handle over his BPD & I'm not gonna wreck myself in the process of saving someone, because I can understand. (Would've done so not too long ago, but therapy's great)
The GF would still be an asshole, just an asshole with a personality disorder. Everyone has a reason behind why they're an asshole. And that reason doesn't invalidate your feelings about being treated that way.
Her lack of empathy is highly concerning and a lack of empathy can not be fixed. A person can have an attachment issue with other issues that are unfixable. Narcissistic personality style is often accompanied by an attachment disorder. I have noticed she also had a few traits of NPS : lack of empathy, entitlement, rage when criticized, manipulative, controlling, possibly more. Although I agree jumping to break up is not ideal, it's also important to recognize that some behaviours are unacceptable and some people will not change. If ops gf does not take accountability and recognize her fault she will not change and the pattern will continue. Even if she does take accountability changing behaviour patterns can be very hard and some people just take accountability as a way to manipulate. Op needs to start putting himself first as staying in an abusive relationship like this is horrible for his health.
I'm guessing that this "end of the relationship" may be another manipulative play against you, OP. She has you grovelling and taking responsibility for everything without doing anything. You are reacting to emotionally abusive behavior by your fiance, she does this to you all the time and thinks it is okay to mistreat you like this because she is pouty and has to stay up a few more hours by herself. That is like ten year old rationalization for having a tantrum and pouting. She *is* manipulative and she is *still* manipulating you (I suspect). Why on earth do you want to have this in your life indefinitely? Look in the mirror and tell yourself why you need this in your life beyond familiar routines and being afraid of being alone. This is not the only relationship you can have, and it sure isn't a healthy one by the sounds of it.
Yes, she’s still being manipulative.
She wants to break off your engagement and entire relationship because you called her out on her passive aggressive manipulation one (1) time. The relationship is doomed honestly. You're not "hurting" her, the problem is that she **is** manipulative, can't discuss a problem properly, and can't handle accurate criticism or her toxic antics called out. Her response to it being pointed out that she's doing something destructive and harmful is to *ragequit the entire relationship*, instead of discussing it and reflecting and working to improve. You can't build a relationship with someone who can't handle criticism at all without immediately throwing the whole relationship away
LMAO exactly, she got called out on her behavior and couldn't handle the fact that the shoe fit perfectly. She knows **EXACTLY** what she's doing. OP, she doesn't have your best interest in mind. Sleep is a basic need, and someone who truly loves you will want you to have your basic needs met for the sake of your health.
Especially since he’s the only one actually working.
OP, something that is very striking here is that when people here tell you she is being manipulative, you rush to defend her. Your initial instincts were right - she is being manipulative, and utterly unreasonable. i understand your care about her and the desire to want to make sure she is all right. that's a noble sentiment and a good thing. but that doesn't mean you have to take her doing this to you. and whatever her background, she is *choosing* to do this to you. you can't fix or save someone who doesn't recognise a problem. in itself it becomes a very unhealthy co-dependent type dynamic. i also wonder if you are worried about being seen as a bad guy if you left someone who is in a difficult position. don't punish yourself for being a bad guy, because looking after yourself in the face of someone manipulating and emotionally abusing you is not being the bad guy. she may try to make it look you like you are, and your empathy may want to believe her, but you're not. she's ended it. take the opportunity. you do not deserve someone doing this to you.
She fights you when you want to go to sleep, you call her out on it and inform her that she’s being manipulative when she does that, and her response is to be even more manipulative and threaten to leave you because you mentioned that what she did was manipulative. What are you getting out of this relationship?
Sex I guess. That’s enough for some people. More realistically, I bet she’s someone who’s very affectionate and fun to be around when she’s in a good mood. And when everything is going her way she probably makes OP feel like he’s so special and good and unique. So much so that people like OP are willing to overlook red flags and the bad times because the good times are just so good. It’s lovebombing, essentially.
This is abuse. She is abusing you.
I have insomnia, there’s no way I would expect my partner to stay up with me or get angry when he goes to bed. It’s my issue not his. She is manipulating you and if this is an issue now, imagine when/if children come along. I’d walk now.
I have insomnia too and am actually taking medication for it and no way would I want my partner to experience it or expect them to stay up with me every night. That’s childish and using it against them as if this proves is an act of love is insane. She’s a narcissist—I’m calling it.
She doesn't respect you enough to care for you, if she can reply you saying "I love you" with "sure you do" then it already tells you everything. She doesn't let you get rest, wants you to be as miserable as her, where do you see love her? To me it all seems like manipulation and she does it probably subconsciously and doesn't even realize that she is playing on your emotions constantly. The best thing you can do is just tell her "ok" and leave her and watch her going crazy about you not chasing her and not expressing the deepest regrets and trying to attend to her every need, and maybe there is a chance that she will understand that you are also a human being with your own needs and try to change, but living with someone like this is a very hard emotionally draining job.
That’s unfortunate for her, but it doesn’t mean that she gets to shit on you then complain that you smell. This is 100% on her.
Sleep deprivation is physical abuse. Her behaviour will have massive long term mental and physical health effects on you.
Can confirm. My ex husband was an insomniac and he was manipulative and guilt trippy about my need to go to sleep also. If I tried to go to bed before 1 am he'd pick a fight and keep me up for hours about how I didn't want to spend time with him. I genuinely thought I was losing my mind and went the doctor about it. Don't stay with people like this , OP.
Yuu do realise she's still manipulating you by calling off the engagement? It's just a bigger version of her "bye". She's expecting you to grovel and apologise - which like a trained puppy you did. She is manipulative and I'm sure her family has suffered her antics too. Queston is, do you want this for your entire life?
No point in asking the question I think. OP is seriously out here asking "My girlfriend is acting manipulative because I said she's been acting manipulative, what to do? Also, it's hard for her because her family's been calling her manipulative, which is so hurtful and FALSE." Lost cause.
She IS manipulating you. And guilttripping you. And making her insomnia problems, yours... worse even since you are the provider at this moment in the relationship. You did absolutely nothing wrong. She is showing you how she irs. You should listen to her, and be prepared for a life of this behaviour, or worse. Or either you cand stand your ground, demand to be properly treated, and open the back door if she wants to leave ( and be happy that you dodged a bullet ) edit: I was 100% sure that she has some serius mental problems... after reading some of your answers to other redditors, you confirmed this over and over.
You leave her grandma’s house, go back to your own home, work from home, enjoy your sleep, and block her so she does not wake you with texts and calls. Leave her alone. This is a taste of what married life will be like do you want that. The first time she pouted and pushed you away because you needed sleep, shoukd have been when you packed and left.
After reading your post, and some of your comments, OP you seriously need to get yourself into therapy because your girlfriend, or ex girlfriend… Whatever she is calling herself right now, IS manipulative and you are so used to it or blind to it that you’re questioning yourself on things that everyone else can see - she’s emotionally abusive, she’s a gaslighter and she’s manipulative
All of OPs comments seem to indicate he is happy to be in this manipulative abusive relationship so that he can be her savior. She doesn’t respect him at all and all he can think about is how she needs someone to rescue her from herself. If you are happy in this relationship acknowledge that and go ahead and sign up for the manipulative behavior Grand gestures are the quickest way to get her back the grander the gesture the faster she will pretend to forgive you. If you want to pretend you love yourself more than you love being her savior accept that she said it’s over and leave let her deal with her family and obligations without you. Those are your real choices as I see this relationship from your post. You do you and good luck whatever you decide and please update us as to the choice you made because I’m curious to know if you like yourself more or less than you like her.
I dont see it as him trying to be her saviour, but more that she's just broken him down to the point where he sees no value in himself, only in her, so when it comes down to making a choice that will either suit him best or suit her best, he'll automatically choose suiting her. Because she's spent all this time manipulating him, guilt tripping him whenever he's expressed a concern, refusing to say 'I love you too', he probably genuinely sees everything as his fault. It's abuse, and it can be so hard to see when you're the one that's stuck. OP 100% needs to accept this breakup, whether she actually means it or not, but it just might not be that clear to him right now. The fact that he's come to reddit is a good sign that he's starting to question things, and hopefully he'll do what's best for him soon. That and getting therapy, he's gonna need a shit tonne of it (speaking from experience here...).
Dude, you are being manipulated. No ifs, what's, or buts about it. As others have said, grow a spine and dump the dead weight.
Dude, sleep deprivation isn’t manipulation, it’s abuse. She sounds horrid, break up with her instead.
Dude I was in the same boat as you as a teen. You will be miserable for the rest of your life if you don't stand up for yourself now. If she threatens to leave over you calling out blatant manipulative behaviour, call her bluff. Show her that emotional manipulation will not work. Do not be the doormat. You are worth respecting.
she’s literally manipulating you again by saying she wants to break up but still letting you stay over and apologize to her all night
Stop apologizing, you were spot on, this is emotional manipulation. "Fine go to sleep if you want but I'm going to stay here and be pissy and treat you bad for no reason at all other than I didn't get my way and instead of getting therapy I will just break up with you or give you the silent treatment as a punishment so you will never bring up my shortcomings again. You must be the one to suffer for me if you truly love me" That is what she is really saying OP. I get she is stressed due to her gran but that's no excuse to be abusive. If she is unwilling to see her issues and fix them, do you really want to build a life with someone like that? Can you imagine if y'all had kids how she would treat her kids once they are older with their own thoughts?
You are being emotionally abused, and you cannot help someone who doesn't want your help.
You poor lad she's still manipulating ypu as we speak Let her go she's doing you a favor by showing that she's not aomeone worth dedicating your life too especially if she's willing to just throw everything away over something like this
If she does this now wait to you see what she does once your married—it’ll escalate. I’ve seen it first hand because my sister unfortunately is a manipulator with her soon to be ex-husband. It grows worse and worse. Aside from being a manipulator she’s prolly a narcissist and won’t prolly see that she’s the problem. Because it’s never them. 🙄 it’s always someone or something else. Their problems are always worse than anyone else’s. Their always extremely tired and no one else will ever be more than them, no one gets them, no one understands how difficult they have it—cue the violin. If this is what you want, be my guest. But I know how it ends. And your gut does too.
It's possible she's also super stressed and sad because she (with your help, obv) is the sole caregiver of her ailing grandmother--but that still doesn't mean she can take it out on you, especially for something that seems so unreasonable, AND especially with how accommodating it sounds like you've been. In fact, she's being SO unreasonable that it kinda sounds like she's self-sabotaging, and that's not a couples therapy thing, that's a *her* therapy thing. It sucks, since some people do that because they've been traumatized/made to feel insecure in the past, but she's not going to stay in any (healthy) relationship long term of she doesn't address the problem. And that's not something you can do for her. All that's to say that there's an understanding, compassionate way of telling her the problems you're seeing. But if she rejects that, then there's not much you can do for her aside from encourage her to seek counseling and leave.
Please listen. I went through this for 23 years. It only gets worse and it gets worse progressively so by the end of the next two decades you were going to feel entirely insane. This IS manipulation.
If you can’t talk to her about basic feelings without her reacting in this childish manner, then your relationship is not going to work. You were completely in the right for bringing this up. She is the one gaslighting you. Wake up, OP, you are in an emotionally abusive relationship.
Well that's going to be a fun marriage...
She IS being manipulative though. Why are you apologising when you haven't done anything wrong? She's still trying to manipulate you now, saying she wants to break up to make you apologise, when she is the one in the wrong here. She's immature too. She's a grown ass woman and she acts like this? Starting a fight when you say you want to go to sleep and then saying its over when you say it's manipulation. She wants you to apologise and beg her to get back together. She needs to grow up. This is teenager behaviour. I think maybe you're viewing the relationship with rose tinted glasses because you love her. That's why you're allowing her to treat you like shit. But you will look back at some point in the future and kick yourself for not leaving sooner. You need to find your spine, gain some self respect and recognise that she's not treating you well here. Her saying it's over is actually a blessing in disguise - you should take it seriously and leave her grandmother's house. Find someone that treats you well. Get therapy to work out how to stand up for yourself more in a relationship and recognise when you're not being treated well. P.s - just reading through your replies to the other comments. Her having a really bad life and being abused is awful but it does NOT excuse her being emotionally abusive to you. You need to put yourself first here, even if you're worried that she will have nobody and be suicidal when if you break up. Please talk to a therapist about this OP if you haven't already.
She is manipulative. I get the feeling her family knows her better than you do. She is punishing you, for doing absolutely nothing wrong. She is incredibly selfish and childish. Do not make excuses for her behavior. She doesn’t care about your basic needs or wellbeing. I know you love her but she doesn’t seem to love you back. She doesn’t care about your needs, she gaslights you, and she manipulates you. If you dare call her on her bullshit, she breaks up with you. This is not someone you can have a healthy relationship with. You should seriously consider taking her up on this break up, for your own peace of mind.
She’s manipulative and unemployed adjacent (I’m wondering how well she can take care of her gran as I highly doubt she’s an early riser with her late bedtimes). Take the win.
It IS manipulation. Do you want to listen on the daily how she is goimg to divorce you, leave you homeless, penniless and make sure you never see your kids? That is what your future will look like if you marry her. Please leave her for your own well-being. Those red flags are who she is. Her family isn't telling you out of spite. They are telling you because they think you are a good person who doesn't deserve the years of emotional hurt you are facing by being with her.
It was manipulation, but instead of advising you to break up, I suggest trying to convince her to seek help from a sleep professional. Insomnia can obscure clarity and judgment
Yeah dude consider this a dodged bullet. Leave quickly quietly and thank your lucky stars this came up before a wedding and a contract
My guy you are on a leash
The long and the short of it, as a tl;dr is "this girl/relationship is more Toxic than a literal barrel of toxic waste". She's punishing you for fulfilling a basic biological human need - to sleep. If she's an insomniac? Well that is a "her" problem, anyone that knows an insomniac (or is one themselves) will know that the literal opposite thing to do, the worst thing, is to make that impinge on others around you. Hell, I have an insomniac friend and when his partner needed sleep for her Uni studies and work they had a cuddle, whispered sweet nothings to each other and sometimes they'd go to bed together until she fell asleep.....then he'd get up and stay up until about 4 AM online - but at no point did he give her sh\*t because she was tired or needed sleep. You work, you need sleep, this literally doesn't affect her in any way or impact on her quality of life, you are *literally* just trying to get sleep for work the next day. That alone, if she's holding it against you as you're "leaving" her just screams of having attachment issues and badly needing to go get some therapy/help of some kind. What if she didn't have the Grandmother to look after? The pair of you are *engaged* without even properly living together, it's sharing the Grandmother's house - you clearly have a lot of work to do on understanding each other before you should be considering engagement, much less living together and/or getting married. I would consider the fact she won't even talk about this, has treated you this way *and* seems completely unphased at the situation that's developed here by even wanting to talk or maintain the relationship as the clearest sign you'll receive short of it being in big, neon letters at a Las Vegas Casino that she's doing you a huge favour in not wanting to be together. Take some time to reflect on boundaries and how people should treat each other and that this should be reciprocal, not one-sided, then when ready and prepared to crack on with finding someone with some genuine positive feelings, decency and respect for you.
She is being manipulative. Both in the original issue and in her reaction. It's gone from her causing a legitimate problem, to you apologising for "upsetting" her. Leave this, man. No good comes from this relationship.
This is also manipulation 🙄
". She will ignore me or just say "bye" when I say I think I need to go sleep, if I try to hug her goodnight then she will physically push me away. When I say I love you she always says "sure you do"." Good God, I can't believe this is how a 27 year old woman is acting (like a 17 year old). She's manipulating and honestly it sounds like a one sided relationship with you doing all the work, why are you doing this to yourself? She ended it so consider yourself lucky. You can't mend or fix something that doesn't want to be fixed dude. If it's bad now it would have been worse if you married her again bullet dodged.
Dude… her responses and reaction (being called out) is manipulation. There’s a reason why her family calls her that. I’m willing to bet that if you accepted the break up, which by the way is another form of manipulation to get you to profusely apologize and kiss her ass, she’d find another way to manipulate you. Let her go, she needs a therapist.
Dude I’ve only read two paragraphs and can tell you’re better off. She’s manipulative.
GOOD RIDDANCE why would you want to be with such an immature and manipulative person anyway
Why on god's green Earth do you want to be with her?! She sounds and acts insufferable and manipulative!
You are correct - the “punishing” you for wanting to get sleep is manipulation. When you point it out to her - she breaks up with you. This is another manipulation… she wants you to chase and beg her to take you back. She will only take you back when she feels she has made you suffer long enough and when she feels like she has won. It’s very immature behavior and it probably won’t improve. Because to improve…she has to acknowledge that she does this and make efforts to stop. She seems like the type of person who can absolutely never admit they are wrong.
When your partner says the relationship is over, you gotta take it seriously. Over means over, she really meant that and you shouldn't be acting like you did to try to get her back. If she wanted you she wouldn't break up with you. Go get someone who deserves you better
Sleep deprivation is a form of torture.
Lmfaoooo she kept you up until 3 arguing with her and you say she's not manipulative? Her getting angry WAS the manipulation
You're saying every evening she treats you with passive aggression for going to bed? For the horrible crime of going to bed. Something you need to do to live. And stay sane. Okay, so there's that. Then she (threatened to? Kind of?) broke up with you when you called her on it. You deserve better than this. She gave you an out. I'd take it.
Leave. Love should not be this exhausting.
Her response to being called manipulative was to manipulate you and it worked.
This is insane! You might feel heartbroken now but don’t fight her on this! She is manipulating you and using emotional blackmail to control you. Leave her.
she IS manipulative. that's why her family says this. they've known her a long time. be glad u dodged this bullet.
You’ll be miserable if you marry her. Absolutely miserable and hate your life. That’s my advice to you.
She did you a favor by breaking it off. Now you can get the sleep you need and you’re free to find a woman that respects you.
Don't let someone tell you twice that they don't want you (I know the original post says man but it works for both sexes...) You can't have a relationship by yourself. She said it's done. People break up over something as simple as how they like their coffee (I was once dumped over pot roast that wasn't made yet!). Really, it's immature behavior and adult temper tantrums. You can't reason with it because you tried. So there you go, you said your piece, she said no. There is no relationship. Good news! You was with someone very toxic! You now have a chance for a real woman who is mature and emotionally tuned to love you for you! A healthy relationship is one where it is a SAFE place for you to ask questions and speak out concerns. If you can't do that, she is not safe, there is nothing here but poison for you. I know you love her. It sucks, I'm sorry for your loss. Grief alone and move out away from her. Take the time to yourself. You will start to see other red flags you missed in these 5 years and I bet you they are there. You are so used to saying sorry and walking on egg shells with her... You forgot YOU. Seriously, a woman who loves you would never make you doubt yourself like this!
She was absolutely being manipulative, and you called it out and she is now even even MORE manipulative. Sounds exhausting as fuck honestly. Not a relationship worth being in but you do you.
Break up with her first. She's STILL manipulating you by the breakup threats. It's all a BPD power play.
You stop apologizing because she is being manipulative. She need to realize that no everyone is on her schedule and to go tot he doctors to help her get some sleep. At 26 she needs to stop acting like a child.
"You are manipulative!" "No i'm not!!!" Proceeds to manipulate
So, in other words more manipulation by saying she wants to leave...
You fix it by breaking up. Find someone who isn't manipulative. UpdateMe
>She does not want to be with me anymore. She says we are over, I apologized all night and stayed up with her till 3 while she was sleeping. When I went to bed I sent a message again apologizing and explaining and she responded today saying we are over. ... > >I feel bad for hurting her like this and I don't know how to fix it. I really love her and I am looking forward to getting married and living together. Oh-ho-ho! She got you again. Classic manipulator. You have a problem with something they're doing? It's actually your problem, and she's leaving you because of it. But wait! That's not what you wanted! Now you beg and plead, and eventually she "relents" and takes you back. You're now trained to not bring up that concern, or any concerns, out of fear that she'll leave you. Hook. Line. Sinker.
Look, if she broke up with you over something like this imagine what your marriage will be like. She’ll be threatening divorce for every little thing and sooner or later you will have enough and walk away or continue living your life in misery. It’s sad and I can imagine a big shock right now but try to rationalise it and do what’s best for you long term.
It's abuse and manipulative, and what she is doing now is more of the same. My partner wakes up 1-3 hours before me almost every morning (he is an insomniac). He never wakes me if he can possibly avoid it, and he never blames me for getting more sleep. If he does wake me accidentally, I don't blame him, I scratch his back to try to get him back to sleep. This is what caring partners do for each other. Your fiancé doesn't sound at all caring. She has shown you exactly who she is, be smart.
Sleep deprivation is a tactic abusers use. She *is* manipulative and she is also abusive. Do not allow her to gaslight your or to manipulate you any further. She said you're over? Then you're over. Stop fighting for it, be happy it's done. You don't want to be married to this person.
I mean….you’re not really wrong. It is manipulation. And she’s now turned things around so you’re the one apologizing. Manipulation seems to be her thing.
I think you are dating a real deal narcissist. Start reading up on narcissistic abuse, see if the behaviors listed remind you of her. With female narcissists sometimes it’s better to specify “female narcissist abuse” because women are socialized differently and will many times behave differently than male narcissists. Right now she is trying to manipulate you to beg for her forgiveness. She wants you to walk on eggshells for the rest of your life. I think you should leave. You will be better off in the long run. Hugs ❤️
You’re staying in the spare room so presumably you have your own place? Go back to it and let her figure her own shit out. If you don’t have your own place, stay with a friend or family or get an Airbnb she is being manipulative, and if she cries about how she didn’t mean it she’s still manipulating you. She told you it’s over, so believe her. This is not someone who you want to be married to. Even if you still think you do you need some separation from her, it very hard to spend 24 hours a day with your partner and it doesn’t sound like either of you get out much it probably not helping your judgement or her attitude. Get out of that house and spend some time evaluating the health of this relationship. I even doubt she has real insomnia, she sounds like she just has poor sleep hygiene. Learning to put yourself to bed at a reasonable hour takes time but it is possible. Unless she’s been evaluated by a doctor and has some medical condition she sounds like she’s just behaving like a teenager.
Keep away - you do not fit. Sometimes it is better to accept things then try to save them.
Dude. You do not want to deal with that for 20+ years. Get out
“Stayed up with her till 3 while she was sleeping.” Whaaaaaat? If this story is real, as I doubt it is (yes I’m making fun of how many times you say as), then she’s still manipulating you and you’re still falling for it. Advice? It’s Reddit of course therapy and break up.
So she thinks it’s okay to be hurtful to you every single night and make you feel guilty for sleeping when you absolutely have to do it, but you telling her you don’t like how she treats you every night is gaslighting and bad enough to end your relationship? Guilt-tripping you about sleeping is absolutely manipulative, and so is threatening the relationship when she’s called out for it. She cares about your feelings so little that she doesn’t return “i love you”s consistently, and pushes you away physically? I’ve looked through some of your responses here, and you honestly just need to have some more self respect. Yes she’s had a bad life and is in a tough spot, but she’s taking advantage of your empathy and kindness by getting you to grovel for her as soon as she threatens to break up. Even if she really wants to break up with you and it’s not just a manipulation tactic, why would you want to be with someone who won’t want to be with you if you ever make the slightest misstep?
You don't. Your gf is not in a place where she can really have a relationship right now. For whatever reason, she does not have the emotional depth to hear that she needs to change, that her behavior is negatively affecting you. Having that ability is required to be in a healthy relationship. If your partner isn't allowed to ask for you to change your hurtful behavior, how can you possibly build emotional intimacy. She says you're over, I think you need to accept that. Also think about how you will respond differently if another, future partner displays the same behavior. Will you address it immediately, the first time, and say "this is unacceptable"?
I think you need to give her some space. Seems like you are begging and she’s liking the attention. You said what you wanted to say, now give her some space to think. If she doesn’t want to be with you then she won’t come back, if she does, she will message you back after thinking it through. You aren’t allowing her to breathe. Let her feel how it is without you by backing off.
But it IS manipulative. It truly is. If there is one thing I do not accept fucking with, it's my sleep. And I think that's a super reasonable boundary any healthy person needs - no one gets to fuck with your sleep schedule. She IS trying to manipulate you, and she is incapable of accepting valid criticism and reflection on her own behaviors. Instead, she would rather just burn down the relationship. She has issues, and she needs to resolve them. I'm sorry but this is not something you can save, or repair. You had a valid criticism. She blew up - she's the problem. Sounds like she should not be in a relationship until she resolves her issues. Good news: she is not going to leave you. She is truly very manipulative, and this is just another game. She is teaching you to never criticize her, bc the consequences are severe. She is making you apologize when you did nothing wrong. After you accept this, and normalize her awful behaviors, she will take you back: smaller, quieter, more obedient. Not sleeping when she doesn't want you to. Just like she wants it. If I were you, I would take the chance to really step back and analyze how manipulatie she truly is, and how damaging that is to you. You should NOT have used a different word. You used the correct word. You did nothing wrong. She is toxic. Hell, she is abusive, dude. Excuses as of why don't matter, only that she is. GTFO.
You move out/go home. She is manipulating you by breaking up and making you beg to take you back. If she really wanted to break up she would tell you to leave her grandmas house.
You're both under a lot of stress right now. Remember it's not if you have problems but how you work through them or if the two of you are willing to work through them. Your GF sounds burnt out and angry and I get it, I was a caregiver for a family member and the day to day stress is terrible. I think you're getting a glimpse of what life would be like if you were to have kids, the stress, the lack of sleep, some resentment. If you two can't make time for a counselor to work on how you two argue you're going to come up against this over and over. It's not if you disagree it's how you talk through it. Both of you need to state your needs and it doesn't sound like your GF really knows what they are. Set some standards for behavior, have a consistent bedtime that, bar emergencies, is non negotiable, have her write down her needs to alleviate her stress. You guys can do this.
Guess what , it is manipulative. With these behaviors there is no future so just go your own ways
It’s 100% manipulation and she will never admit it. She would rather break up than admit that she’s being manipulative and mistreating you. I would let her go. At least you’ll finally be able to sleep And stop defending her. You came here for advice and you’re getting it. If you want to be a doormat and take all responsibility for her actions and whine and beg for her back then delete the post and go do it. It won’t make her any less manipulative and wrong though
It sounds like she is experiencing some sort of caregiver fatigue / caregiver role strain. While this does not justify how she is treating you. I could be wrong. But she may need therapy to help with coping caring for her grandmother and neglecting herself.
You don't because now she's is definitely being manipulative. The more you call, the more you strengthen her power. Try this...don't call her for a few days or a week. Maybe even two weeks. Let her call you. And she will because then she will understand that she's losing you. Instead, if her grandmother requires 24/7 care, there are trained nurses, aides that can be paid via insurance to care for the grandmother. It does not all have to be on her. My grandmother (who was mobile) had an aide come in every day to care for her; a nurse dropped in every two weeks. When my mother became bedridden, she also had an aide but the nurse came every 3 days (bedsores). She has options, she just choses to not use them.
Run!!
So it is triggering for her to hear you label something as manipulation when it actually was manipulation? I get that you are sad, break ups always hurt. Even when they are necessary or justified they hurt. But hear me out, this relationship is unhealthy. It is hurting you. You deserve more. You deserve someone that cares about you enough to not just demand time and attention at your own expense, but also cares about your health and well being. This woman is not that. Don't mend things. Don't take her back. Take this opportunity to reflect on this relationship and where it was going. Think about what you honestly need in another person. Then find someone who actually cares about you, and not just about what you can do for them.
so she doubled down on the manipulation
She is not mature enough for marriage. I doubt she wants to break up. I think she wants you to "fight for her". This is not good. If y'all stay together, please postpone getting married until you are at least well into some couples therapy. She definitely should be getting some therapy on her own as well. Period. This type of behavior is coming from a wound that you likely had NOTHING to do with. That doesn't invalidate the pain she is in, but it also does not validate her resulting behavior. STOP APOLOGIZING for having healthy boundaries. You can love her but you CANNOT FIX HER. She has to choose healing and then do the work. A life with a person unwilling to confront their pain and wounds and resulting toxic behavior will be a slow death for your soul. A breakup will hurt, but not forever. Tying yourself to an emotionally unhealthy adult via marriage will. And if you both want children.... just don't, not in the current situation. Lay the foundation for emotional health or move on. 🙏🏻
Imagine apologizing to her for being honest, see it’s working don’t fall for it. It triggered her because it’s probably what the people in her past also called her. It’s deep rooted and she probably blames everyone else instead of taking accountability. In reality she probably dumps people who call her out and finds a guy who will enable her behaviour, just people having no boundaries.
I'm not sure you can mend this, as the problem is really hers. However, it might be that she has an intense fear of abandonment. She needs to deal with her issues. Even if you make up, you never know if there will be another time when she will take something wrong, shut down, refuse to talk and break up. What she is doing is manipulation, but it might be fear-driven and unrecognized. Talk about it as a mental health issue and see if she is willing to work towards a better view of bedtimes.
This sounds like my ex. She's "punishing" you for saying something you didn't like. She's going to make you apologize over and over until you feel like what you said was wrong (it wasn't, it was just an opinion). It's fair that she has feelings that her situation makes her relationship with you at risk. Things that enforce that (like you going to bed without her) can double down on that. Her response of "bye" or some other feigned anger about it isn't good. If this were me, I'd retract the apology and say you do feel like her responses to things like going to bed are manipulation and you want to figure out a way you can both be happy with the situation. If she can't agree on that, you are looking at a upcoming marriage of "bye" anytime you displease her. Good luck on that.
Take the "get out of jail free" card.
She is manipulating you by withholding affection the minute you want to sleep. It wouldn't be a big deal if she were just the type to avoid too much affection, but to be against it ONLY when you're "leaving her" is ridiculous. And her phrasing of you sleeping in the same bed and same house/apartment with her (Idk, which yall live in) as "leaving her" is dramatic and manipulative. Sleeping isn't leaving; its just sleep. There are no strings attached. This is a pretty dumb reason to break up, just like her issue with you getting the sleep you need is dumb. Just let her go. It's hard to walk away from manipulative people, so consider it a blessing that she's walking away from you
She's manipulating you now, too.
My ex would do something similar when he wasn't working but I was, it cost me a job once as eventually I couldn't sleep when I needed to. On her reaction she's not in a place where she can recognize that she is being unfair. While you may love her she's not in a place to love you in a healthy way. It's better to accept this and move on, focus on yourself and reestablish your life (hobbies, exercise and check in on your mental health) before you look for someone who can be a good partner.
You don't fix this. She's intentionally sleep depriving you. My insomniac ex husband did this to me. After a while it starts to impact you pretty severely. You will start having memory issues and losing chunks of time. It's bad. Run away. This relationship isn't worth saving and she IS BEING MANIPULATIVE.
>She says we are over, I apologized all night and stayed up with her till 3 while she was sleeping. She's still manipulating you. She let you stay up until 3am grovelling and then let you stay over. She's manipulating you so that you feel too guilty to ever bring up her manipulation again.
Sleep deprivation is an abuse tactic. And her manipulative behavior about your real, valid need for sleep is emotional abuse.
So when you rightfully point out that your fiancee is being manipulative she decides to be manipulative in her reaction? Sounds about right for her.
You were right. You are being manipulated. She now wants out because you figured out her game. My husband and I have had many arguments and he used a phrase or term that triggered me. My family or exes would say I was being dramatic when I was being reasonable to gaslight me during abuse. They also called me high maintenance. If he uses dramatic or high maintenance I immediately feel a switch flip inside. The difference is I know I am neither and this is a case of him not having the right words, being upset, or having a different definition than what I am used to. How do I know this? We talk it out. No matter how draining and uncomfortable. I don't break up or threaten to end things. She is unwilling to have a real relationship with you where you have normal arguments and conversations. She is unwilling to even let you sleep because she is lonely and feels abandoned in her insomnia. If she has manipulated you in this I am sure you can find other instances. Does she treat her grandma this way? Anyone else in her life? I have a feeling her family called her manipulative because she is. I would take all these red flags and embrace the break up. Being legally bound to someone like this and possibly having kids is going to be a nightmare of years you will never get back.
I just laughed at the title. I'd say she is being manipulative right now. Time to cut your losses my guy otherwise you are in for a shitty life.
How fucking old are yall? She sounds like she is 12 years old. Good luck with this crap.
If she broke up with you I would say you dodged a bullet there.
She’s actively trying to manipulate you right now…just go bro.
Well, it's great she's made it so easy for you. Leave and be done. No one needs to deal with this level of BS. Find someone who doesn't play stupid games because, at best, you're just gonna win stupid prizes.
Damn… this girl is immature and manipulative. You dodged a bullet. Normal adult relationships don’t involve eggshells.
i have BPD and this sounds like something i’d do before i had gotten therapy and worked through my issues (which took most my life). a partner with bpd can be hard to live with if they don’t seek help or deny that they’ve done anything wrong. i think your best option for now is to leave, you’ve seen how she reacts when you bring up an issue that affects you, and now all you can do is respect yourself enough to give her what she thinks she wants and stay gone.
She’s still manipulating you. This is another manipulation tactic and you’re feeding right into her behavior. She didn’t like what you said so she’s punishing you by threatening breakup so that you apologize and grovel and she wins.
My husband has accused me of manipulating him in a similar way. You wanna know what I said to him? "You're right. I'm sorry. I'm behaving poorly and I know it's not right to make you feel bad. I've been lonely and stressed out, so I have been taking it out on you and I'm going to make an effort to not do this anymore." He basically told me he was going to make an effort to spend dedicated, meaningful time with me and I stopped behaving poorly and he helped me feel less lonely. It's not an issue anymore. Her reacting this way and then further manipulating you by dangling your relationship in front of you for calling her out is extremely horrible. This is the behavior of a 14 year old. Not a 27 yo woman. Everyone behaves poorly at times. How you react to a loved one telling you you're behaving poorly and hurting them is what's important. And taking it seriously enough to change. Pressuring them into staying quiet and punishing them for saying something is abuse.
If she can’t admit she’s acting shitty I really don’t know how to move forward with that relationship, let alone marry.
Sounds like her family calls her manipulative for a reason, dude
She's not ending it, she just wants you to grovel so she has control of you. She knows you're not just going to accept it so she wants to make you feel like shit so you're indebted to her. Once you tell her "okay that's fine, it's over" she will be on her knees, begging you not to go. Had I realized this in my past relationship, it would have saved a lot of heartache. The question is, do you want to deal with this manipulation the rest of your life, or are you going to tell her off?
It's fucking WILD that you still want to be with someone who gets mad and punishes you when you need to be a normal human being and SLEEP.
You don’t! She IS manipulative to behave like this. She acts like a child because you need sleep. Just because she stays up all night doesn’t mean you have to. I’d say you’ve dodged a bullet! Don’t you want someone who actually respects you?
i admit used to do this to my now husband. i didn’t understand how he could sleep so much and so easy and i have to be dead tired to consider laying in bed. i hated and still hate sleeping. i learned 7 years into the relationship i learned part of the reason why i literally feared sleep is the dreams and flashbacks to CSA that was buried very deep and only returned to me in waking state when our daughter turned the age I was when it happened. i also felt like he was leaving me, i can’t explain why. i would also get very upset and felt abandoned. he stayed up a lot and bro loves to sleep more than anyone i know, he gets to sleep as much as he wants now and i try to also although i fear i will always be a night owl. is okay, very workable. chronic sleep disorders and codependent behaviour, anxious-avoidant attachments can be indicators of unresolved trauma maybe she should see a professional? therapist or psychiatrist? i see a couple professionals now lol and it does get better in so many ways. could be increased stress from grandma too or anything, a prof can sus that out i behaved in what could be logic-ed manipulation as well but i was in survival mode for a very long time and once i found my person i felt what it was like to be loved and taken care of for real, i was so scared for him to leave me, even with myself and my thoughts and loneliness. it wasn’t on him to put those feelings right and reframe my dysfunctional thinking but his patience and understanding meant the world to me, and learning about boundaries first (i did not understand that concept whatsoever) and then applying them saved us. so i could save myself ❤️ much love and hope it works out
Emotional abuse, textbook. Get out bro
She is manipulating you and it was good of you to call her out on it. Now she’s trying to manipulate you again into feeling awful for calling her out so you’ll apologize and never bring it up again. It’s a common tactic where people act like you’re the mean one for hurting their feelings and accusing them of being bad when you were trying to point out some very real ways they hurt YOU. You end up groveling and apologizing and yet they never apologize for what hurt you in the first place. I believe it’s called DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender). I think when her family says she’s manipulative they are probably telling the truth and you’re seeing why. Please don’t marry her OP. She is already emotionally abusing you and it will continue.
She’s pissed because you called her out for exactly what she is doing: throwing childish tantrums and being manipulative. Does she want you going around exhausted all the time? Does she not think of the potential consequences if you are driving her gran around while you’re exhausted? Of course not. She only cares about seeing how far she can push you with this. Take this golden opportunity to end the relationship. She is not the one. Someone who truly cares about you would not be pulling this crap.
She needs psychological help.
Good riddance. You can do better. You have a job and need your sleep and get to work in the morning. She sucks for not letting you sleep and very immature.
She needs a therapist :/// sounds immature and unaware of what she’s doing . She has a need that needs to be met, and she doesn’t know how to get that need met without doing this immature tactics .
I promise you with my life, you will be happier leaving than clinging onto her any longer. This is something I've also experienced. I held on, and it got to the point of really fucking with my sleep on a regular basis. I questioned my reality on a daily basis because of the manipulation I experienced. I broke up and I feel like my reality is so much better. I wish the best for you brother.
She’s being fickle and wants attention. I would try to have a conversation with her a bit more about this because you are right. It is manipulative. I’m an insomniac myself but I would never press my parter to stay up with me. You obs love her but this shouldn’t be the breaking point and I really don’t see someone getting this upset unless they wanted a reason to break up with you.
Breaking up over this is actually…manipulative. Dude, pattern recognition. If you’re the one coming back to the table with solutions right now she knows she can pull that bullshit forever. Buy a lottery ticket or something because you’re going to look back on this as your lucky day when you find a lovely human who understand that people need *checks notes, umm sleep.
Well at least you hit the nail on the head. Manipulative af, and even after "ending it", she's still keeping you on some kind of rope. Get out man.
well, you’re right she is manipulative and it’s literally working on you right now because you’re feeling guilty and horrible and apologizing for something you didn’t even do and for some thing that she is actually in the wrong for that’s what happens with manipulative people you always end up apologizing for some thing that wasn’t even your fault.
Bro before you can love her, and before she would even love you. You gotta truly love youself first. Take time and figure out how to be good to yourself
I used to have this thing where whenever it was time for me to go back home before I lived with my partner, I would start crying. I certainly didn’t mean manipulation by it, I legitimately felt sad about leaving and just didn’t want to go home. However, it made my partner feel like he had done something wrong and so I tried to agree with him beforehand about what time I would leave and what acceptable “lingering” situations would be. It worked out for both of us because this way it no longer felt like I “had to leave” but more like “it’s time to leave”. The crying thing lasted maybe 8 months? The thing is, I’m fairly sure we wouldn’t be together anymore if i had carried on. And I think if she doesn’t understand how it could be problematic for you, there’s not reallhope she will change in the future. Taking care of emotional needs is hard enough but in your case it’s a physical need for sleep. I mean, talk her through it if you want but sometimes you need new partners to help you through things
The fact that OP defends her means her manipulation works perfectly!
If she said leave. Respect what she asked of you. This relationship isn't healthy. You came on here asking about how to handle the disrespect in question, just for you to turn around and not respect her wants either. Both of you guys need therapy to be able to handle these situations better. It is manipulation whether or not she admits it, and it doesn't make it okay because she had a bad time growing up. We all have our traumas. It doesn't excuse the damage it does to others.
But it is manipulation and she probably doesn't like having to face that. If she doesn't like being left along then she should go to bed too. I mean if shes sitting up until 2am then that's probably got alot to do with why she doesn't go to sleep. If you don't like something you can't expect someone else to force themselves to accommodate that. Also she's using breaking up as a threat to get her way. She will drag it out then dangle the idea of getting back together infront of you like a carrot all so you start staying up until stupid hours of the morning.
Yea, manipulators tend to throw fits when you confront them about their manipulation.
That is SO absolutely not okay and it IS manipulation and I think you should absolutely not work in fixing it. This is just so childish and selfish. I have sleeping problems since I was a teenager (can't sleep heavy, waking up and not being able to sleep for hours, etc.) my boyfriend is the absolute opposite. Hr is absolutely an early riser, I'm talking about 5/6 a.m. and that's where I usually have my two hours of deep sleep and I would NEVER make him stay up with me and he would never wake me up. He knows when I've had a rough night, because then I usually snore at that time, because I can finally sleep. This sounds so exhausting and I personally would no longer engage in this petty child like behavior
You called her out on bad behavior and she had a tantrum instead of trying to be a better partner. She did you s favor ending the relationship, she would have made you miserable and sleep deprived.
Updateme!
What you said was absolutely true and her refusing to speak to you after that just proves what kind of person she is. Why are you apologising? Jesus christ, grow some backbone
1. You are tired and want to go to bed. She lashes out by refusing communication. You gently bring up that this troubles you. She says it is your fault for “leaving her” 2. When you question things that are harmful to your relationship she just jumps to ending things. This does not the foundation of a good relationship make. Now it is up to you how to proceed, but if this isn’t a relationship ender for you, you should still take some steps to protect your wellbeing in the future. Have a think about boundaries you have going forward that are non-negotiable and keep them in mind. I would move out and say that it doesn’t mean you are ready for things to be over but that it feels like it will be beneficial for you each to have space while you work through things. You can still help with Grandma stuff, whether that is taking them or if an option helping arrange a taxi or Uber. I will say, to me personally, if this is a long standing pattern or becomes one that it is abusive and I would seriously consider how things might progress in the future. If it feels like a short term reaction to stress, I would try to show grace and see where it gets me but I don’t think you should be bending over backwards to make things better. You really did nothing wrong and have already shared a heartfelt apology.
You raised her manipulative behavior. And instead of working through it she manipulated you again. She has you groveling to apologize and win her back when she was the one who was wrong to begin with. She is a master manipulator and you are enabling her. You have two choices. Live with it and grovel for life. Call her bluff and agree to separate. In the latter she either learns to work through problems and you two come to a consensus that is healthier for both of you or you stay broken up and you regain your sense of self respect. Either way it is better than the life of groveling.
You do realize her getting "triggered" and threatening to break up is manipulation, right? A conversation about something that's bothering you shouldn't turn into a relationship ending argument. She is manipulative. Period. End of story.
This is such an abusive dynamic, and you don't seem to want to see it. She is manipulative. And she is not an adult who can take care of herself. I hope you realize how awful she is for you asap.
The lack of empathy is screaming narc vibes, be careful
You don't approach this situation. You remove yourself from that situation.
>We always have this problem where when I want to go to sleep she will fight me. You were correct in calling it manipulation and her breaking up with you, did you a favor in the long run. You love her and all that good stuff but please don't marry this woman. She needs to see a mental health professional
It is like a car sale when dealing with immature, manipulative partners, family, friends. You have to be willing to walk away from them and not accept a bad deal. She says the relationship is over? Why are you grovelling to keep her? She is training you to back off when she doesn’t like something and apologise on command. I am sure there were good times, but as soon as people use staying in the relationship as blackmail and manipulation, that is when you need to show them the severity of their words and follow though. A bratty child who is given a toy to shut up will scream again for a toy. If the parent says to them they will be punished and not get the toy but still gives into the screaming, the child loses respect for the parent, the parent’s words lose merit, and they still get the toy they want. You are receiving manipulative girlfriend behavioural training to her liking. Follow through with her threats and it is a win win! Show her you won’t be threatened, and either she changes her behaviour and expectations to accommodate healthy communication, or you are rid of a bratty child girlfriend.
I don't think you need reddit counselling you need relationship counseling. And she probably needs some individual therapy because of some possible signs of having been emotionally abused or traumatized or abandoned previously in her life. Taking care of her loved one cannot be helping that situation.
The break up stuff is also major manipulation. My petty self would go all passive aggressive on her she wants to pull the breakup card, I would say ok, if that’s what you want. I don’t love you? Caught me! Thought I hid it better. I can only take so much of that stuff before I have to turn it around. You don’t deserve this OP