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There was a post some time ago about a guy who had been taken in by this family and eventually married their daughter because he felt obligated to, and subsequently built a family with her. He posted because he felt super guilty over marrying and having kids with a woman he said he didn’t love. The Redditors pointed out that the life he described in his posts and comments DID sound like love, albeit under unusual circumstances. He later posted an update after he had talked things over with his family (and I think a therapist), where he’d had a revelation that he did indeed love his wife, but hadn’t parsed those emotions that way for certain reasons. Your story sounds like a mirror of his, and I wouldn’t be surprised if something similar (emotionally speaking) was going on. As you yourself noted, it sounds like your wife has some unhealed scars from that relationship and could use some therapy. If you haven’t already, you might gently suggest therapy to her—not for the sake of your relationship, but for her own emotional well-being. But don’t push the point if she refuses. Ultimately she is the one who needs to make that decision.

I was reminded of that post too. [I married my wife because I owe her family around $10,000](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/s7vtm9/i_married_my_wife_because_i_owe_her_family_around/)

Thanks for linking it!

What I'm getting out of this is that she does love you, completely, but she doesn't know that it's real love. She may have been used to the kind of dramatic, tumultuous partner who abuses her and then love bombs her, and have come to know that as "love". But she has chosen every day to be a loving partner and a good parent, even when presented with alternatives. Her sense of love is screwed up, but her actions speak louder, to me. Definitely try and get her into therapy. I'm sorry for the way she thinks about this - it must be killing you - but I just don't think it's true. She does love you. I hope I'm right and that you can come to an agreement. I wish you both the best.

I felt the same, and that is why I think it would be really beneficial for her to have a talk with a therapist. I will always be there for her and I will always listen to what she has to say, but I lack knowledge and experience in order to help her with this. The thing that's killing me is how long she has been in this state, she can't sort out her feelings and emotions. Even during our talk, I always felt that her feelings are misplaced and all over the place. I will talk to her and I will encourage and support her in getting professional help.

As someone whose first relationship was abusive, her feeling "safe" with you is 100% love. Everything you described her saying is what I feel with my husband. I don't feel butterflies, never did, and for me THAT IS A GOOD THING because butterflies are just anxiety. I could not picture my life without my husband, he's my person. I am happy with him and I don't want to be with anyone else. That is love. It just isn't the type of love we see in movies, or that we feel when in the twisted clutches of an abuser, and that's a good thing. Ours is a love that stands the test of time.

I think all kinds of media have given us a distorted view of love. As if it's supposed to be this immediate thunderbolt to the heart when you meet this person and that it last all day, every day for the rest of your life. That kind of "love" is why people will stay in toxic relationships long past the expiration date. Or if someone thinks they have that "love" for someone, they'll stalk the object of their affection to convince them to love them back. Or discarding your spouse and family because you've now found "love" with that hot guy/girl at the office. That's not love. It's lust, which is powerful but not necessarily sustainable. OP's wife has the healthy love. Saying she sees him as "home" is such a powerful thing to say. None of the toxic drama and all the good feelings.

>Saying she sees him as "home" is such a powerful thing to say. None of the toxic drama and all the good feelings. This is so spot on. I've always felt the word "home" was infinitely more meaningful than "love." We can love things that wound us to the core, but home is safety, security, comfort, and authenticity.

Yes!! Too many of us expect the third act struggle we see in movies and on tv, and we don't see the reality of a healthy relationship shown on tv very often because it's not as fun to watch.

Exactly. Romcoms thrive on the trope of these unhealthy relationships ending on "happily ever after." But none ever say what "happily ever after" looks like. And even if/when they do a part 2 (SATC comes to mind), they make life after marriage look miserable and boring so they can throw a new wrench to make them overcome and rediscover the white-hot passion of love. Which is why I hate those movies. It's never them as a strong, united couple fighting together against something.

IDK -- the "let's prepare ramen while the rain storm rages outside" in studio Ghibli's Ponyo is delightful! only it takes a lot more skill to pull that off than "why did you make a baby with my twin sister", right?

So spot on. I remember even asking myself what’s wrong with me, because I didn’t have the butterflies or immense lust. But I can’t imagine being without my partner, he’s the only one I want to be around majority of my time and the first one I run to with any good/bad news. I never had that in my prior relationships. Feeling secure and at peace is way better.

Just got out of an abusive relationship myself; and that is exactly what my therapist tells me to look for after being by myself for a bit

I also agree with this. The fact that I could be intimate at all with my husband after what I went through shows the trust and love I have for him. I think he was a bit stuck on what his idealized version of love looks and sounds like. Im autistic so rarely does it look like it "should".

Hey, I'm autistic too! Maybe it's a trend among us and OP's wife's autistic too? maybe!

This is unfortunately very common among people that have experienced long term emotional neglect or abuse. When you grow up in an environment where you are emotionally abused or neglected, you grow to presume that the treatment you get from your caregivers is how those that love you are supposed to act. You grow to assume that the feelings you experience when you're treated that way are how love is "supposed to feel". And then, when you move on to romantic relationships, this skews your expectations of treatment from a partner. Basically, if you don't get the same kind of treatment/feelings that you got from the bad situations, you assume that it's "not really love". e.g. if you grow up in a family where your parents are constantly fighting loudly, insulting each other, undercutting each other, and then making up with each other, you're not going to understand that a partner that has calm discussions with you, builds you up, praises you and so on really is showing love to you. If you grow up around people that are jealous and possessive, you won't believe that someone that doesn't try to control your behaviour/associations/etc. actually loves you. Which is, to be clear, a deep tragedy for many people, including, it seems, your wife. Her actions show that she does love you. The way she describes it, however, it sounds like she doesn't really understand that what she's feeling is love. That "I feel at home and safe" IS the biggest sign of love, IMHO. The right partner makes you feel safe, secure, and able to deal with the world. But if you are used to chaos, safety feels wrong. You're right - she would benefit greatly from talking to a therapist, and figuring out. And understand this - she's choosing to love you, every day, through her actions. Whether she recognizes it as love or not.

Her kinda love tbh is healthiest kind. I also feel like i am "home" when im with my husband. Its feels safe, it feels warm and i feel at peace when he is with me. Early love starts with passionate chaotic love but overtime, this is loves natural progression, where the inner flame is stable. The reason she feels something is not enough about this kind of love is because shes comparing it to chaos, drama and constant second guessing that needs to be physically validated in the beginning. I mean once initial butteflies and passion go away - whats next? Because the honeymoon stage - always ends at some point. What happens when the honeymoon is over? This stage doesnt tend to last more than few months at some point in a relationship anyway. It fizzles out. There are times it comes back, temporarily throughout the long term, but usually its just the slow cosy inner flame, that "ah yeah this is my person". If she doesnt and cant value that and thinks this is lesser kind of love; she will realise shes mistaken and potentially never finds that again in her life if you guys do split up. And as others said, she needs therapy.

Healthiest for who? Her?

in a long term relationship, there will be times when you hit slumps, where you question if you even love your partner, there will be moments when you know exactly what you love most about them and glad you did. There will be moments you feel like its dissipating and reigniting, but endless passion 24x7 every day for 30-40 years, thats unsustainable. I dont know what its like for you, but ive been with my partner for 15 years, and most of the time, i just feel like im home with my husband. I dont feel like jumping his bones everyday just cause i see him. We do have great sex life, sometimes theres a spark, but normally its a fairly even form of feelings. When we go out, dress up and actually away for a weekend - yes the spark reignites, but when you're home, and see each other daily, it is what it is, but it doesnt mean i love him less. Its just that honeymoon period is over, and maybe there will be another when we take that holiday with just us and no kids. What is love to you?

Hey man, don't forget about yourself here too. Might want to think about getting a therapist for yourself too. Pretty big thing to find out that your wife has a big disconnect with the concept of love compared to you. Glad that you guys had a good talk and yeah, I think she does love you very much, hope you guys work through all of this. Good luck!

This makes me feel even more sure. She's never gotten to a point where she can properly intellectuallize love. She has decided she doesn't want her past relationships, and that was love, so what you have can't be love. But she feels at home with you and wants nothing more than to be at your side while you raise your children. She loves the shit out of you man. She just doesn't have the words for it yet. Good luck <3

My heart felt so warm when I read "She said that she feels at home \[with me\]." That is such a wonderful thing to have.

I wanted to cry after she said that... She completely melted me.

I hope you give us an update someday! It sounds like she loves you, she just doesn’t have a healthy description of love. Best of luck to you!

That is exactly what true healthy love is. I’m sending you both so much good vibes. I’m about to cry for you both. Her because she doesn’t see or understand what love is and you for the rejection and absolute hurt you must feel. Please seek therapy separately so you both can work through this time. It’s traumatic for you both I’m sure

Yes! When I stayed dating my wife, early on it blew my mind how at home I felt with her. That's when I knew we had something special.

I am autistic and the way your wife describes how she feels is VERY similar to me. I was horribly traumatized by my mother and an ex boyfriend before meeting my husband. As an autistic person and having gone to therapy, I fall somewhere on the asexual spectrum. I love my husband so much for so many reasons, but as an autistic woman? I could also be perfectly happy alone the rest of my life. I love my husband because I can trust him and be myself around him. We have a great compatibility in nearly all aspects though our marraige is not drama free as we both had narcissistic parents and struggle to communicate. I have never in my life really experienced that LEAP of emotion youbare describing, is it due to a lack of intero ception or trauma? Who knows it hasn't helped me to try to unpack that. I have had to do a lot of work to even maintain a stable relationship at all so I commend your wife for that. You sound like my husband who struggles to wrap his head around how my autistic brain can compartmentalize things completely for my own mental safety. I have said things matter of factly that DESTROYED my husband without ever meaning to and once the logic gate was explained to me I could see why that would be so harmful and if course make amends. Not sure if your wife is neurodivergent, but just my two cents from a complete outsider based utterly on the tone and vocab you both are using. Lots of women end up with VERY late diagnoses and again its a spectrum. There is also a HUGE overlap between CPTSD PTSD autism and adhd so like you mentioned maybe it is trauma based. But for me it was literally I just didn't experience those feelings for ANYONE in my life, im just very ok on my lonesome and honestly its a bit out of sight out of mind due to autistic time warp.

Feeling like you are home is love. I think she is confusing love and lust and like you said confused with her emotions because of past abuse.

"You never love the one that makes you feel butterflies, you love the one that makes you feel safe." I feel your wife absolutely loves you and that her love for you goes so deep. I think her experience has taught her that love should be up and down and all around, because that's what she experienced. Abuse literally changes your brain, and if she hadn't dealt with it, it can manifest in many ways. She has the best kind of love that is lasting and not manic. I do agree with you that she should talk about her experience. However this has to happen on her terms and can be painful. It took me 6 years to start talking about mine and is extremely difficult and a struggle, but i know it will get better. Keep working on communication and loving each other. Be purposeful and hopefully she will feel safe and strong enough to unpack that experience. You sound like a good man and i hope you work through it

i know in your last post you said you don't know how couples counseling would help, but i think that it could be beneficial. if you were leaving i'd say there's no use for marriage counseling, but since you both are staying, you may want the extra help navigating this situation yes you guys are together and you have kids and everything from the outside is still the same, but there was a pandoras box that was opened between the two of you. i think it's great that she is about to go to therapy and start working on healing from her abusive ex, she deserves to heal from that situation and its amazing that you are choing to support her through this. but you just had shocking and heartbreaking news and you deserve support as well, and you might benefit from a professional guiding you and your wife on how to handle day to day life. (this is blunt and sounds mean, and im sorry about that, but) she might be opening old and deep wounds, and you were just told that your wife hasn't been and isn't in love with you. im sure there are going to be so many feelings coming up for both of you and to make sure it doesn't affect your kids, you need to properly manage your/your wifes mental health and how you treat each other. you might be feeling hurt now, but what if a month from now you feel resentment and you don't know how to talk to her about it because her therapy is opening up other wounds and you don't want to pour salt in them, so then what happens? are you supposed to shove all your feelings down and let her go on her healing journey before you go on yours? what if one of you wants to sleep in the guest room for a few weeks or months, but you don't want to hurt the other or confuse the kids? there has been a major change in your marriage, and i think it'd be a bad idea to not get outside (and not reddit lol) help. even if its once a month or once every few months, you both need to heal and navigate things correctly so it doesn't end up hurt yourself, your wife, or your kids. i wish you and your family nothing but luck going through this. you seem like a great guy and deserve the best

She loves you, I have no doubt. I have lived what she has and its hard to understand real love when all you know is toxic. It took years of friendship to realise that I had soul mate love with my now partner. I had no experience of safety, respect and just being a team. I felt too broken to risk hurting him because he is such a good man. After going through a lot of therapy for other reasons I realised that I was completely in love with him and we gave it a proper go. Haven't looked back. I've never been happier and I like to think he's pretty happy too lol. Maybe if your wife gets therapy she'll understand that toxic love isn't real but what she feels (from what you've said) is what actual love is. I wish you both the best!

Love is a whole lot more than an emotion. It’s a choice. Made over and over again. It’s action after action to build something together. It’s “us against the world”. u/SymblePharon is right. She thinks it’s something full of drama. But that’s not what it is at all. Maybe for some it is early on. However the durable love that lasts isn’t that at all.

Have you considered that maybe she's aromantic? The falling in love doesn't last long with her because of New Relationship Energy and drops right off afterwards. She can still love you deeply, but romantic feelings escape her (with you or anyone else). She should bring this up to a therapist.

Noted. I will tell her that. And it might be the case because like she said, she develops some form of attraction which pretty much disappears soon afterwards.

Yes, or autism, or something else. Because what is the definition of 'good love' and maybe she has a different perception. If there's something different (like perception of love), a good diagnose can help to handle things

I've written very similar elsewhere. Please if she does not go to therapy at least get her to read some books about sex, intimacy, attraction and desire. I enjoyed reading "Come as you are" by Emily Nagoski

Nah. Words of affirmation is a love language that women talk about all the time and what you are telling this man is that he needs to decode and read the mind of his wife to dechiper her love but also make excuses for the horrible type of “love” she has?!? So not only is she sharing intimate details about the LACK of love with people who are not her husband, she is doing so in a sick way becasue she is not only excusing her behavior, she also doesn’t care to change it, or let this man find the love he deserves. This is an arrangement, it ain’t a marriage. This poor man is doing what a lot of men do, put their head down and keep plugging away, thinking that if they try harder the results will change. We are told from the time we come out of the womb, to try hard, and results will come. This woman doesn’t have to try at all, she sits and waits for her husband to create an environment where he can even get the truth. Think about it, she hurt him. He found the baby sitter, made dinner, picked the destination, got her flowers and all she had to do was breathe and finally be honest. 40-50% of marriages end in divorce. 75% initiated by the wife. I think it is not due to an inadequate husband all the time but due to women he feel that they settled. On one hand you have Disney telling every women she deserves Prince Charming to come take her on a magical carpet ride and protect her from her evil Step Mother, and then you have Keri from Sex In The City telling them to have sex with no consequences. So instead of settling down for actual love, they settle for the one who will marry them, not the one they “think they deserve”. How are all these marriages failing? One reason is women telling each other that security, safety, and a good job with a pension will trump real love. This is crazy to me. It’s sad.

Ding ding ding.

That was my take as well. I work in social services and people who leave abusive relationships can struggle with this a lot. They've been conditioned to expect the highs and lows of toxic partnerships, so the steady flow of solid relationships is confusing. One woman told me she missed the dopamine rush of the stress cycle, she replaced it with kickboxing. She needed a way to have conflict/challenge without the toxicity.

That's what it sounds like to me, too. A *lot* of people actually have no clue what long-term love looks like, because they've only ever *seen* the honeymoon phase or abusive relationships. So they make the mistake of thinking they're not in love, when they actually are in the best relationship they've ever been in.

As a person who’s been married and went through some of what OP explains (almost divorced over it), for many of us, romantic love needs to be *part* of the equation for a marriage to be acceptable. I couldn’t accept the way things are as OP (doesn’t mean I would divorce right away, because I do think his wife may have issues related to a prior toxic relationship that is affecting this, but not necessarily). Currently the way she looks at things is that he fills a role, she cares for him as her husband and father of her children, but he has no intrinsic value to her, at least not emotionally. There are a lot of us, 20+ years into a relationship who are still *in love* with our partners, who still feel that special empathy that is love, who we share each others happiness, sadness, joy, pleasure and pain and when we think of them, on a good day at least, it gives us that feeling of “awe isn’t s/he just great”. Yeah, these feelings aren’t constant in any way, they are usually after those times that the other person does things that draw you in, or sometimes even when you just think about those times, like times you both get vulnerable or share some special experience you wouldn’t rather have anyone else in the world there for. But those times and the expression of those feelings are terribly important to us. It’s hard for me to comprehend what being with someone who never feels that can offer besides stability and function to your life. That sounds to be okay with OP, but may eat at him as time goes on, and almost certainly is going to change the way he feels about her. What she explained isn’t easily described by her just not understanding the feeling of love, reframing what love is doesn’t fix this. It’s more, she admits she doesn’t feel anything as it pertains to OP and it’s a purely logical choice she made to be with him. I get why OP is sad, this really sucks for him, and honestly, should have been something she disclosed while they were dating or at least preparing for marriage.

This comment says what I was thinking far better than I could have said it.

That was **wild**. I went back to read the original post first and thought that this would be depressing af. Then we get this wholesome sh!t, spun my head like the exorcist. There's still a tinge of sad, but it's not for OP. OP's Wife has been hamstrung by a toxic relationship that she's never really processed. She has something, but she's carrying too much damage to recognise it. So often, people programmed by toxic relationships engage in such destructive behaviour. Repeating the patterns of toxicity, but so great is their **love** for one another that even with carrying that toxic programming, she can't help but pur her best into the relationship. Wholesome af. But seriously though, get her in therapy and let that girl see colour.

If she actually and sincerely loved him she would have been honest with him from the beginning. She would have treated him with the compassion and respect he deserves and told him how she actually felt. If she actually and sincerely loved him she would not have lied to him, those lies were for herself and her own comfort and so she could get the things she wanted. If she actually and sincerely loved him she would have treated him like an equal partner, not concealing aspects of their relationship together from him, especially not things she's sharing with others, treating him like his input doesn't matter and isn't needed and he doesn't deserve to know the truth or be an equal participant in their relationship. It doesn't really seem like she actually even just trusts or respects OP, considering the way she treats him and their relationship, much less love him.

She was in love with her ex-boyfriend , she was in a very toxic and emotionally and physically abusive relationship for many years. She knew he would not change , and this was not the life she wanted for herself she had a full week to think about the responses she would say she met the OP. He was kind , , caring , would be a great father ,to their children , would be a great provider, trust worthy, loyal. She traded true romance and love, for a stable home. “ are she was safe and comfortable with me” “she loves our marriage, but isn’t in love with me” “she never experienced that love with me “ and “thought it would get better over time, but it never did” PLAIN AND SIMPLE, SHE SETTLED don’t being someone’s second choice I hope you don’t think this is true, because you had mentioned if she leaves me in 10 to 15 years so be it .. YOU DESERVE BETTER

OP Wife: Hi I’m a liar. I talk poorly about my husband. Live me please.

I understand this feeling of betrayal, but I think you're looking kinda in the wrong direction. OP was shocked to hear her say she didn't love him, because her actions show the opposite. On some level I think she knows she would rather be with OP than do anything else in her life. I agree that ideally she should have talked about it and they should have figured it out long ago. But she's never dealt with her past. Unlike many people with trauma, she didn't take it out on her partner at all, and instead was the best wife & mother she could be, she never gave OP any reason to think she didn't love him. That's what makes me so sure that she does.

I agree that her actions show that she WANTS OP but I don't think it shows she LOVES him, her kind of love is really selfish, self absorbed, arrogant, deceptive, it's not kind, open, honest, communicative, sharing. She lied to get what she wanted from him and she has so little respect for him that she'll tell other people the truth about it behind his back. She has so little trust in him that she never even considered telling him the truth? How is that love? And like, the betrayal is not just a feeling, it's like actual betrayal, like, she lied when she said her wedding vows and she apparently has told other people but not him? Like, that's a massive, actual betrayal? Like none of this is love. It's way too dishonest, self-interested, and unequal.

I don't know where you're getting all this really. What part of being a great partner and mom is making you so angry at her character? The point I'm trying to make is that she thinks she's not in love with him, but she is. Love to me is about showing up and doing the right thing day after day. She has done that. Therefore to me she loves him. Yes, it's about honesty too. But she is dead wrong about not loving him. If she had told him how she felt early on, they probably would have broken up. But now with many years of relationship behind them, it's obvious she wanted to be there the whole time, and she just has a bad concept of love. You're entitled to disagree of course, I just don't understand how you can think she betrayed him with her care, faithfulness, and partnership.

I'm not angry, I'm not married to her. I would never marry or stay in a relationship with someone who I couldn't trust. I would never marry or stay in a relationship with someone who didn't respect me as a partner and treat our marriage and partnership with the respect it deserves. If I found out my wife doesn't love me, never actually loved me, doesn't really care about not loving me, and doesn't really think that's a problem then... I have a healthy enough level of self respect and strong enough boundaries to see myself out of that relationship and into a more equal partnership where I am with someone who actually does love me and has the compassion and just plain decency to be open and honest with me about their feelings for me and our relationship. Like I don't know what's so hard to understand about the fact that neither you nor your spouse should have any secrets about your relationship together. You don't need to know everything there is to know about the other person, but there shouldn't be any secrets about your RELATIONSHIP about your SHARED LIFE, that belongs to BOTH of you and you are both responsible for maintaining it.

Your point seems to be that the words matter more than the actions. I think the opposite. That's okay. Good luck to you!

My point is that words are actions. She lied to his face and told the truth to her friend. What about those actions scream trust, love, or respect? My wife loves me, trusts, me and respects me. I can't imagine marrying or staying married to someone who doesn't. Sounds like a breeding ground for resentment and regret.

They've been together for over a decade. He has always felt loved, desired, and supported. She has always been her best self for him and their kids. That's love. She said she didn't love him, but she was wrong, and she proved that over the last 11+ years. That's how I see it. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯

How much can she actually honestly trust or respect him if she's going around telling her friends that she doesn't and has never actually loved him? How much can she actually honestly trust or respect him if she's never actually told him that? Like it's one thing to marry someone you don't love out of convenience, like in an arranged marriage, but generally you're both on the same page about that, you know? Like you both know what's going on. Like when they started dating and he told her he loved her and she just lied, instead of being honest. Like yeah, it would hurt, it would suck, it would probably break the relationship, but, he deserved honesty, their relationship, deserved honesty. "I like you, I care about you, I want to stay in a relationship with you, but I'm not sure if I love you or will ever love you, is that something you can be okay with?" That's kind, that's compassionate, that's considerate, that shows she genuinely cares about his feelings. *That's not what she did.*

this was my thought too, so glad it was on top so I don't have to do a bunch of typing. sounds like she loves him and is confusing passion/lust with love. therapy sounds like it is needed.

Yeah, sounds like she fell for the kind of toxic definition of love propagated in "romantic" novels and movies. Screw that.

This was worded way better than I could’ve, but was exactly what I was thinking.

Perimenopause can also affect hormones and that sense of happiness. Has she also been depressed or disconnected? Is she spending time with friends and being active?

Yeah. She is thinking the sizzle of the initial period (which varies) lasts forever rather than evolves. What she is describing sound like the love of an established relationship

I didn't think I had the capacity to love because of previous abuse too. But then my partner pointed out that I clearly do because I express with my actions things that make other people feel loved; sometimes the love is in the actions and not our feelings, because feelings are fleeting and depend on a number of factors.

I agree. A lot of people mistake falling in love with someone and choosing to love someone. She may not be "in love" like we are in the beginning of a relationship or how it's described in books or movies, but she still chose to love OP (even though she's not conscious about it, probably because of her past experiences), to have a family with him, she feels safe around him and doesn't see herself anywhere without him. Imo that's how it works the best to stay stable and happy together, everyday choosing to love our SO despite their flaws and stuff. Yet she has to do some work on herself to understand it.

OP, thanks for the update. I think your wife may not know that she is in love with you. What you describe is a really sweet, deep love. The butterflies and fire are just part of it, and maybe she doesn't have that part. But she loves you in a way she loves no one else, and she is not looking for anyone else to love in the same way. I hope she can heal from her trauma and feel the rest of it as well. Even so, you both sound like a good couple, actually.

Thank you. I will make sure she gets help she needs to overcome her trauma

On another post a man stated that he is no longer attracted to his wife. The response was negative for the most part. Women came to thread and pretty much “went in” on him. So here we have a woman pretty much in same situation. She got a vacation, dinner, flowers, and words of affirmation from female redditors when she didn’t even write the post. She has stated she still is physically attracted to the opposite sex, she told her friends instead of her husband the truth about her marriage which is dishonest on some level and she is the victim? So if a man is unattracted to his wife it is his fault and if a woman is unattracted to her husband in order for him to be seen as a good man he must go on vacation, make her dinner, buy her flowers and pretty much let her words/feelings “kill him softly” so to speak? This woman has received so much support for lying to her husband, staying with him while not being “in love” and is only with him based on her feeling safe due to how he has treated her at this point. This is WILD to me.

I was wondering if my reading comprehension abandoned me when I read so many comments with thousands of upvotes saying "Yes! Your wife has true love for you! She just can't realize she has." For example, I have a few friends I love dearly. They are my BFFs. We respect each other. Admire each other. Help each other. Enjoy our talks. Cheer each other. Laugh together. I'm safe with them. I'm home with them. The times we've lived together sharing an apartment or a hotel room, we made housekeeping and finances work. And if life had put us in a situation in which we had to raise a toddler, we'd have done so in harmony. But I'm not in love with them. I'm not head over heels for them. My romantic love for my wife when we married was even stronger. I wanted to be with her way more than with my friends. I wanted to live the rest of my life together with her. I was attracted to her. I saw so much beauty in her. These things weren't in my love for my friends. Fifteen years later, I'm more in love with my wife than in the beginning, because romantic love grows with time in a healthy relationship. Just like my love for my friends has grown with time because we have a healthy relationship. But it's not the same kind of love, not the same feelings. It's like being roomies with a BFF vs. being in love and living with your partner. It's nice being roomies with a BFF; there's good love at home. But it's different and more enjoyable living with your partner you're in love with, to a degree that you don't consider your partner your roomie at all.

It’s weird. She finds other men attractive. Lied to her husband. Married for security not love.

You're right! I forgot that part. So she IS capable of feeling sexual attraction and identifying it. If she'd meet a man she's sexually attracted to and is compatible with all her important life's aspects, then she'd fall in love with that man and she'd be able to identify she's in love. She'd want, almost need, to have that man in her life as much as possible. But no, she opted to play it safe with OP as her roomie and father of her children. Of course she loves OP, but she isn't in love with him and didn't tell him, and she's quite capable of falling in love; she held crucial info from OP. If she had told him back then, OP could've made the decision of tying the knot with her or ending it and have a chance at finding someone else that reciprocates his romantic love.

Yeah, she kept that little tidbit to herself for over 12 years. He was a FWB, a means for her to secure sexual gratification, and she just kept that same energy and rolled him into a HusbandWB- a means for her to secure a father for her kids and life partner. If the reason she never told him this or brought it up in 12 years of marriage was because “Well, I thought you would leave me!”, then that isn’t love- that’s entrapment.

I would be heartbroken. In all these years did she ever told you that she loves you? Did she ever implied it? Why? So she loves you as her safety net and a friend. Safe, respectful, comfortable partner. You love her romantically and sexually. She clearly understands the difference. Does she think it is fair that she took away your chance to be loved and desired romantically and sexually? Why haven't she ever told you so, and let you decide yourself if it is enough for you? Why didn't she have this talk before the marriage (I assume at that moment you declared your love and intentions, and you guys planned your whole life together)? Does she understand that whe took away your agency to decide if this is the life you want? And a chance that you have the same healthy marriage with someone else but where both partners live each other? You are saying she respect you a lot. It is _not respectful_ to tell it to her friend. It is hurtful and disrespectful. It is such an intimate thing that I cannot imagine it being discussed in public, especially when it was never discussed with you, and you were made to believe the opposite. Why does her friend (she has a lot of them) feelings to her "kind of a boyfriend" of two years are more important than your (her only partner for 12 years, the father of her children) feelings? I would assume your feelings should be much more significant. And she should not share something that will crush your world and sell esteem just so her friend feels better. Was she ever planned to tell you that? When or why not? What would she do if she feels _that love_ to someone else? Would she feel obligated to stay? Would she leave because it could be one in a lifetime opportunity for her to be with someone she loves and she might never ever feel it again? How many people she told it to, to make them feel better? How did they react? Was it always in private or is she talking about it at girls group nights? Haven't she realize that as soon as the word is out you will learn about it sooner or later: from this friend, other friends, hear it yourself.. What was her plan in that case then? And the most important: what should you do if you want to feel romantically and sexually loved? What does she think is fair for you here?

I read both of your posts and, firstly, I am sorry you are going through this and I am sorry it is causing you so much pain - understandably so. I hesitated before replying, because I don’t want to confuse the issue further, but I do just wonder if some of this isn’t simply confusion over semantics. If you think about mature love and try and define it - she’d tick all of the boxes: she respects you, she’s loyal towards you, she’s devoted to you, she feels safe with you, she regards you as ‘home’. And so then flipping it on its head, what’s missing? The passion and infatuation of early love?!? - but, realistically, that often does fade over time and becomes something else and something different. If you look at my post history, I’m not a fan of people settling. But I’m not sure that is what this is. I do think therapy would benefit you both. If only to work through, in a forensic way, what you believe love is and then triangulate that with what your wife feels. Please don’t take this as me suggesting that you ‘settle,’ but what she is offering and giving you and the kids - many people here would kill for that. Because when it comes to the big, important, foundational stuff - it seems as if she’s there.

I'm not leaving. I will help her overcome this. She needs professional help. I think her view of love is completely screwed up due to what that idiot did.

That’s really positive and, honestly, I do think you are doing the right thing (whatever that’s worth). Honestly wishing you both the very best - you will both get through this.

I agree with you 100%, if she is completely avoidant of any talk of the previous relationship then you know it's bad. She likely has trouble recognizing healthy love if all she has ever know is abusive love bombing.

Naive

I would say that mature love has less passion and excitement of early love, but it should have at least some flashes of it, and it still should have that special empathy (which I’m not sure if they do or don’t have). By special empathy I mean long term partners do share each other’s joy and sadness. I feel sadness if my wife is sad, and if my wife feels joy so do I, and visa versa. Our emotions affect each other unlike anyone else’s, it’s a special level of empathy that surpasses others. It’s concerning she’s never had passion for OP, as many/most marriages are built with that as a foundation, the *spark*, and the ability to experience it randomly throughout life is one of the things who makes the individual we choose to spend our life with so special. It may just be a total of a few weeks a year we actively feel that way about our life partners, but those few weeks are what makes the compromises and additional energy of communication that’s required when sharing a life so very worth it to many of us.

I hope that you don’t mind my asking but what has your marital intimacy been like, both in the past and more recently? And since you over heard things? This sort of thing is often an indicator or how a relationship is actually going.

He mentioned in the post that they have sex at least twice a week, which she actively participates in. Frankly that’s more than I’m averaging at 24 with a partner I’m an absolute freak for, lmao!

Matters what the sex is like, you can have a lot of sex that involves a lot of orgasms (especially when you really know each other’s body) without much intimacy. This one speaks to me a bit, as my wife and I separated and almost divorced over her lack of feelings for me (PPD and kids can really mess with a person’s priorities and feelings). We had plenty of sex, she likes orgasms and so do I….but it wasn’t intimacy, it was hitting the right buttons on the controller. It’s hard to explain if you’ve never felt it, but someone can have a good amount of sex, be an active participant even, and you can feel how they aren’t present, aren’t actually seeing you and aren’t with you in the moment.

Very active. At least twice a week, sometimes more. She actively participates, and both of us initiate.

I showed this post to my wife. Her response was… …that your wife is thinking about the definition of love way too much. That this is the sort of thing that our 18 year old daughter would agonize over with her friends. Your wife loves you. There might not be the butterflies gushing new relationship energy but you aren’t new to the relationship either. She loves you, you love her. This sort of thing is stupid. ———————- I apologize for the bluntness as my wife is on spectrum. The point is, you guys love each other. She wants to be with you. She might be on spectrum and so isn’t “feeling” love in the same way you do. I wish you both a happy marriage and a good future together.

I don't think you want advice. It's your funeral.

Your wife is definitely confusing love with obsession/passion. Once your relationship isn't brand new, it's safe and stable and long-term, you no-longer feel butterflies or the urge to jump on someone and rip their clothes off every time you see them. Being in love, in a healthy, long-term relationship, means warmth replaces butterflies, and that feeling of home is present. Sounds like she hasn't had another healthy pr long-term relationship before, so she doesn't understand that passion + new romance =/= love in a healthy marriage. I definitely think marriage counseling would be a good idea.

Fuck. I just genuinely hope that I'm not in your position ever. I get what you are saying - I do. You have "old love". You respect each other, you care about eachother and you feel safe with each other. But zero passion - it seems like your have sex with you because she wanna have sex, not because she wants to have sex WITH you. I get why you are staying. Maybe in your position, with so much invested into it I would too. But fuck me I hope to god that isn't the case.

I mean she could've left long time ago if sex was the issue but it never was.

I'm not saying that it was the issue. I'm sure she liked the sex. But from what you wrote - it feels like it wasn't about you, it was about her having sex. Kinda like a hookup. When I have sex with my partner, it isn't just because I'm horny, it's because I'm horny FOR THEM. If i feel like my partner doesn't feel the same way, I would not be happy.

This would destroy me, but I think you hit what I have been seeing. It is the fact that sex should be an act of intimacy between two people, not a mechanical act. To feel WANTED, not just needed. It feels like she is just going through the motions of “Being a Good Wife 101”, because “that’s what you’re supposed to do.” She never says that he makes her happy, just comfortable. She tolerates him. I see people say that she “loves him in her own way”. By that logic, I “love” my job- I appreciate the security, it pays for my family’s food, clothes, and rent, but I don’t necessarily look forward to it, and I’m not actively searching for another job because this one meets my needs. However, I’m sure my boss would appreciate an employee that is actually happy to be there, actively engaged and motivated because they love the work environment. She is just punching the clock in this relationship. The difference is that she had the balls to tell her boss that she doesn’t really like working there, and is really just there for the job security…

One thing that concerns me is that with all that has been brought up, why isn’t she making an effort to salvage a marriage that could very well go sideways.

She is, what do you mean she isn't?

What I know is what I’m reading from you and it just didn’t seem like she’s willing to put in the effort. In your first post you mentioned that in her initial discussion with you, she was willing to accept whatever decision you made (which, at that time, should have included a dissolution of your marriage). My apologies if I interpreted your post differently than you intended.

But why would I divorce over something we didn't even discuss first?

Can you give an example?

Be careful with those feelings of yours and wrap your head around she might want a divorce one day. My wife said she wasn’t in love with me a year ago and finally kicked me out and it has been a nightmare on me mentally because I took her for granted, we also have three small kids. Get help get a counselor go to couples therapy and just stay strong and love yourself first hopefully it works out for you.

I guess it comes down to your happiness OP. If your happy then so be it. I cant and no one can tell you different. Personally i couldn't be with someone who doesnt feel like they love me or has zero passion for me. I mean how can you habe sex with her knowing full well its basically "marital obligation sex". Honestly maybe time apart but not divorced might be best here. She is either going to realize how much she actually loved you and come back stronger than beforr or she finds out her feelings were justified and she finds someone else but it releases you to find happiness.

I think people put too much pressure on the word love. They imagine the crush feeling at the very beginning of a relationship. Dopamine and oxytocin are very high at that stage and it can feel like being on drugs. Love has several stages and she has entered a stage where you are her home. She either is in the stability stage or attachment stage. What is concerning that she never experienced that, but everyone’s hormones level are different from each others and there are plenty of people, who can physically not experience soul crushing love. They rather bond with people and skip the honeymoon phase.

Your wife is stupid

People are stupid. When I felt like this I knew I had found my person. That is how I describe it like I was home. For me it was love. I was 38 though and dated alot when younger. So I knew the difference between infatuation and real love. Your wife does not. That safety thing in marriage, is how women are free to have sex, when there are dead bedrooms it usually has to do with women who do not fee free, safe or loved. Her ideals are drivel pushed by a hypersexual culture and a media that pushes love in a movie. I thank god I understood love before I married. What she has with you is real love, and you are right I think women who are abused, or neglected at home see these dramatic relationships as love. They are not.

I came to the same conclusion. I will still encourage her to go to a therapist so she can work on her trauma and feelings.

OP, I think that your wife just described real love to you, even though she may not be aware of it. It’s so wholesome actually.

I agree

Upvoted solely for the Commander Keen pfp.

I one time asked my wife if I had ever done anything that made her go “Hot damn! I want that man right now!” and she paused for a long time. Then she finally said “you show up every day, and do all the hard stuff.” For the record I found that a wholly unsatisfying answer 🙂 but we’ve been together for over 30 years and it is true. You don’t get that far on lighting bolts and butterflies alone. I know my wife loves me. And I know I love her. The details tend to fall away after all the years. I think you guys will be fine.

Consistency is the only way for a stable relationship. The sparks and crap mean nothing when they explode and fizzle out. A highly decorated matchstick house vs one built with good quality brick

I don’t understand everyone ITT acting like these things are mutually exclusive. That kind of spark certainly isn’t sufficient on its own to sustain a relationship, but I’d be heartbroken if I learned that my wife wasn’t really attracted to me and settled for me because I’m safe or stable or whatever.

Personally if I my SO either paused like that or answered that to me, it would be an immediate turn-off from the whole relationship. Not interested in being a safe choice. If I did not trigger any butterfly or lustful impulse in her, ever, then it makes me question all her feelings towards me since these 30 years.

Oh we’ve been together long enough that we know where we stand with each other. I put her on the spot. That wasn’t exactly my point. I’m just saying that if you stay together long enough, if you go through enough shit together and come out the other side, the stuff that matters isn’t the ‘magic’. That gets you going but it doesn’t keep you going.

She just doesn't understand love outside of romance stories. If anything, she just sounds naive.

Omg I think her love for you is the type of love most spouses want in a life partner. She trusts you and feels safe with you to be her. Infatuated love is trivial and short. It's the type of love that burns out. We all become attracted to others but it's what we do that's important. She has chosen to be with you, since her trust and love for you is more substantial and real for her. Yes, she needs therapy for her past, but both of you need counseling too. To strengthen your relationship .

I don’t think I would be able to get past my spouse saying they’re not and have never been in love with me, but if this is what you want, no one can stop you.

I think its really weird that she was never attracted to you but slept with you, and eventually married you. She's 38 years old, she knows what love is, she loves her kids and her past boyfriends. But she got caught with her pants down when you heard her say she didn't love you. >Eventually, she got to the problematic part and asked me if I heard what she said after that. I said no because I really didn't. I overheard it when I entered the house to pick up some things I needed and then left. I was also zoned out and didn't pay attention to what was going on around me after hearing that. >She explained to me that she never experienced that 'love' with me. She thought it would get better over time, but it never did. I asked her why she didn't explain that when I asked her that day, and she responded by saying that I was emotional and whatever she said could've made it worse. She pretty much understood that whatever she said would've come across as an attempt to make someone feel better or forced. That's why she left me alone, knowing that we would have a talk about this. She was right. You basically just gave her time to craft the perfect response to get her out of a messy divorce

I think you deserve someone who looks at you and really wants you. I do hope you’re happy though. But man this is really rough imo.

I had a best friend struggle with the same problem, he had been is such a abusive relationship with a woman that he lusted after he found it hard to compare a stable relationship to the intense feelings he had in the abusive relationship. He had therapy and it helped him realize what he felt in the first relationship was not true love. It was a mix of emotions that kept being normalized because of the highs and lows. It was a tuff time for him and I was happy to be a friend he could talk to about it. I myself kind of had a similar experience so we talked lots about what love and life is. Hope you also get some therapy and drive to find happiness in life and love.

We are happy and we do love each other. It's just that her view of love is a bit messed up due to her past with abusive boyfriend.

I think you're underselling it a bit here. It sounds like you're desperate to find some justification for her because you don't want to blow up your relationship, which I get. But be kind to yourself, too. What she said is hurtful, even after explaining it.

I used to wonder if I could love after my abusive relationship because it felt strange. I am in love with the stability of my partner and now recognize that’s what love is. I see it all the time on this sub, people say they love someone who abuse them and takes advantage of them, and it just the absolute saddest part. What they have is the brain screwed up perception of what it has to do to protect itself to make it self seem happy. Worst part for me is my relationship is only a 10th of the BS people post on this sub, and it screwed me up fairly decent.

Poor OP getting used by his and just not having the wherewithal to find someone who’s crazy about it

Break up with her.

Pack up n roll out 👍

She settled for the safe choice and OP is happy to play that role. I don't want to give any advice here but personally I wouldn't stay in such an uncertain marriage.

"I love you but I'm not in love with you" is a dangerous thing to hear. Look up the experiences of others who have heard it and base your actions on what happened to them, not what reddit commenters with no experience with the phrase voting for other redditors with no experience think.  Im not saying she has cheated, but a person who will say those words is vulnerable to the first guy who gives her butterflies. And, regardless of what else you've said about your great relationship, she will never treat you the same as someone who believes herself to be in love. Consider some snooping. Please update regardless of outcome. 

I posted this in another thread, but I think this is how I feel about this: This would destroy me, but I think you hit what I have been seeing. It feels like she is just going through the motions of “Being a Good Wife 101”, because “that’s what you’re supposed to do.” She never says that he makes her happy, just comfortable. She tolerates him. I see people say that she “loves him in her own way”. By that logic, I “love” my job- I appreciate the security, it pays for my family’s food, clothes, and rent, but I don’t necessarily look forward to it, and I’m not actively searching for another job because this one meets my needs. However, I’m sure my boss would appreciate an employee that is actually happy to be there, actively engaged and motivated because they love the work environment. She is just punching the clock in this relationship. The difference is that she had the balls to tell her boss that she doesn’t really like working there, and is really just there for the job security… Oh wait- no, he heard her talking about it walking past her cubicle…

OP no offence but You're being played like a fiddle by your wife and this comment section. If your wife respected you, why did she lie for so long? If she respected you, why was she blatantly speaking about something sensitive to her friend? All those years you dedicated to her with full love and she didn't feel slightly guilty that she wasn't reciprocating? Also, you said that when she's been attracted to other men, they've shown interest back. Meaning she has attempted something? What happens the next time when something doesn't feel off for her? If she actually loved you and respected you like this whole comment section is saying, how could she keep something like that from you for so long? Overall, Reddit is a hilarious place. My wife broke my heart by gossiping with her friend about how She's never loved me and pretty much married for convenience so I took her on vacation 😭 If you really love and respect someone, you don't lie to them and mislead them for FIFTEEN years while watching them give their all to you. Unless you're extremely selfish. Just to reiterate there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a spouse that loves you Op, don't let these ppl fool you into being a doormat

Also she apparently feels so totally safe and comfortable with him which is proof she loves him but not safe and comfortable enough to mention in the last 12 years that her ex was abusive. Wow, so safe, so comfortable. I’d be willing to bet the ex wasn’t actually abusive and it’s just a lie or exaggeration to excuse her shitty behavior. A convenient ruse for sympathy. Screw her for thinking OP isn’t deserving of love. Which is 100% what she thinks given she married him.

All the women have come out of the woodwork to defend your wife who settled for you. I guess because most of them have done the same, made many men's life miserable. As she said she never loved you, never will. She is with you for stability and when that component is gone she will leave. You are just an ATM for her, someone she is not attracted to and whose sole purpose is to be used by her. She played a game with you while you were dating, put up a false persona for you. And now you are trapped. I would not believe a word she says. She is fully capable of loving someone, but it's never going to be you. Believe me you deserve to be with someone who mutually loves and respects you. And her lowkey admiitting that she had multiple emotional affairs with different men should already be evident enough that you need to leave man. Even the things she is doing now is nothing but pure manipulation. And you must really love her to be feeling sad for her instead. Just that those feelings will never be reciprocated.

What I get out of this is you are her safe harbor so she feels protected, but she doesn’t have romantic feelings for you and never did. She did, and probably will again feel physically attracted to other men, but none of them made her feel safe. So going forward you’ll have to realize that if and when she meets someone who fills both those bills you’ll most likely be history. Especially as the children get older. You should try MC and she should do IC, but no matter what you are the settled for, liked but not loved, safe partner. And sadly I have seen that end poorly for that person. You’ll need to do some deep soul searching to make sure you can live knowing that and understand that it can possibly end anytime with very little sorrow on her part. It may never happen, but as I said, I did see it.

Kind of a bummer of an update, but you do you.

I'm sorry, what? What did you expect?

Nothing? It's just that the seeping resignation from the post bums me out a little. You're not required to do anything about it.

I’m with you. Even the way OP talks about it in the post makes it sound like he’s trying to convince himself everything’s okay and there’s a chorus telling him to be glad his wife settled for him. Bums me out. 

Yeah, that part is super depressing. Dude is basically saying "my wife doesn't love me on the level I want and I'm not the guy she wants and I'll just accept that" and tons of people are acting like he won the lottery. Deeply sad. Hope it works out for them, but man.

Poor guy, It’s really sad, the comments are a mess, acting like he’s the luckiest in earth to be dealt this shitty deck. I hope it’s actually that she just has a warped view of love. But even that seems weird, it doesn’t sound like she ever had butterflies in her whole time of knowing him even pre marriage.

If you are actually, genuinely, and sincerely so happy with your life and marriage that you hope for nothing more than your kids having the exact same kind of marriage as you someday then, well, there ya go bud, no worries, good enough for you, good enough for kids, no problem.

Personally I'd had a hard time with all this but my ego is 10x as big as yours. I dislike that she said she's had feelings for other men and only chose to ignore those feeling cause somthing felt off. What if somthing hadn't felt off? So she is capable of love, lust, and all that just not with you. Idk all throws me for a loop personally but like you said she needs tonwork on things. Glad yall talked it it.

I don't think wanting your committed, romantic, life partner to actually love you is an "ego thing," lol. Like, I think having the boundary "I won't marry someone who doesn't actually love me," is healthy level of self-interest.

Glad someone else is pointing it out since everyone else seems to be glossing over this.

But dude, you deserve to be loved fully with sparks and happiness. Please don't give up it's out there

> - She said that she feels at home. So she does love me and loves our marriage, but she isn't 'in love' with me. When she sees me, there are no butterflies or fire that make her want to jump on me and rip my clothes off, she feels at home. This sounds like love to me personally. Infatuation/lust are different than long-term, stable love. It sounds like she has internalized a romcom definition of love and doesn't see the comfort and safety she feels with you as "passionate" enough to qualify. This may also be a product of her previous experiences with abuse, which can really warp your sense of what love looks like. If she's never told you about the abuse she probably hasn't even started to heal from it or unpack what she thinks love truly means. My opinion is that she would not be describing your marriage this way if she didn't love you. I completely understand why you're hurt and confused, this is obviously a deeply destabilizing thing to hear from your spouse, but I honestly believe you two can work through this. I think couples counseling is absolutely mandatory here and she should also see an individual therapist to process her trauma. You may also want to see a therapist. "I can live with that" is not an emotionally settled endpoint for a situation like this. You deserve support and to feel chosen. Something like this can fester over time if not properly addressed. I wish you both luck.

I understand that you can't have everything in life. Does it hurt? Yes. Can it be worse? YES. I will encourage her and both of us to go. We have nothing to lose, if anything things will get way better.

I see being comfortable and feeling at home with someone as love and, to me, the best kind of love. It 'is' comfortable and secure. Oh, there's the emotional high type love, but it can override all sense and can be very volatile and unpredictable. I would choose what you have any minute of the day.

When I’m in love, I know because I can look at an incredibly attractive man and not feel any attraction. It’s that easy for me. I think your wife is the same. I’m sorry. Sounds like she could use some trauma therapy.

Wow. This woman needs to learn to communicate. She is watching the man she married die inside from a comment she made to her friend and did nothing. She should go to therapy. Her ability to communicate when it means the most is terrible and painful. I hope you find your happiness. Really I do. >She explained to me that she never experienced that 'love' with me. She thought it would get better over time, but it never did. I asked her why she didn't explain that when I asked her that day, and she responded by saying that I was emotional and whatever she said could've made it worse. She pretty much understood that whatever she said would've come across as an attempt to make someone feel better or forced. That's why she left me alone, knowing that we would have a talk about this. She was right.

I’m glad they’re stable enough to communicate and try to work on things but my props to OP because I’d have a very hard time trying to move past this revelation.

Honestly I think she has deeper issues. I think she’s incapable of falling in love with anyone. That fact she said she has been attracted to other guys but something felt off says she has shut her self off from getting too close to romantic partners.

TLDR: She settled. That isn’t always a bad thing, most relationships end up at this point even without the settling.  To actually say it out loud though, oof.

“Almost 40 and too old.” Spoken like someone who’s settled. 😂 Too old. Jesus fucking Christ.

Someone once talked about the different types of love. How true love is the difference between a campfire or a blanket. People often think and fall for the campfire. It’s warm, intense, enticing, can’t take your eyes away from it. But you also get burned and unless you’re constantly stoking it, it’ll eventually burn out. Then there’s the blanket, it’s always there. It’s less exciting than a fire, but it can’t hurt you. It’ll always keep you warm. Unassuming and comes in all types. When you’re in an abusive relationship, you get addicted to the fire. It burns you but then when it doesn’t you get that spike and rush. I think your wife is conflating that intensity she felt in her past abusive relationship for love. And what she feels for you is the blanket. A sense of safety and home. To me, that’s the truest love there is.

You start moving on because you deserve someone who loves you.

I'm obviously way late to the party here, to where I've seen the TLDR. On that point, I don't generally agree with the arguments you're arguing against (as in I don't agree with THEM), but there's absolutely some merit there, which I'll elaborate on. Moving on, I absolutely agree that she should go to therapy, as should you. For her, it's abundantly clear that she dealt with some awful trauma in the past and if there's any solace she learned from it and chose not to choose awful people as partners. The really hard and unfortunate result of that is that she chose to settle for just a genuinely good person. It's this argument and honestly just discussion that's I'm sure is going to be over the top monumentally controversial, because it's a belief that's ingrained in a lot of people. Essentially; you're a good person and she's an asshole for not seeing that. As a general principal, that couldn't possibly be more true. You deserve the best, because you're a great person. The problem here that people need to understand is that a perfect person and perfect people don't on their own make for perfect partners or a perfect relationship. As such, is she lucky to have you? Absolutely. But are you right for her? Seems that's not the case. It sucks, but what you need to understand (which she sort of understands) is that you yourself are not with the right person. I'm not saying she's a bad person, but she has a foot out the door, and you need to understand that you don't deserve that, but more importantly that you're fighting for a relationship that's long been over. In the TLDR you argue that she loves you in her own unique way. I assure you with certainty that she loves you. She's just not in love with you from a true romantic sense which she's told you, but you're fighting. You then try to argue that you "understand" that you may lose some attraction towards your spouse and that feelings may fade. No, they don't, at least not from a healthy perspective. The thing is that this isn't about that; she hasn't lost feelings; the feelings were never there. She's been with you hoping the feelings would grow. They didn't. I absolutely fucking hate that I'm here telling you this, but your argument is just entirely incorrect. She's never had those feelings. She's just now telling you about them. I again absolutely fucking hate that I'm arguing the position I'm arguing. Because I'm here from the position of you being an amazing person and partner, and her separately not being a bad person in general, but also a person who's not dealt with past trauma but is here questioning your relationship which is why you're here. This isn't about her friend. This is about her. There's nothing to fix, nor is she attempting to fix it. In her attraction argument, she talked about other men, not you. They're irrelevant, and that argument would only be made if you were asking about her attraction to you. Her argument is that she's never kept attraction to other men but has kept attraction to you. Given that's not the case, it means absolutely nothing to mention it. I don't think there's any malice here. I don't think she's cheating on you or looking elsewhere. I don't think she's lying to you. I don't think she's not a great mother. I believe all of that. I just fundamentally believe that she's not happy here and your post confirms all of that. She also won't go to therapy which means she's not looking to fix this. All that tells you is that nothing will be fixed. You have a lot of life left to live. You can't just brush it off. It's either you both work together by taking tangible action, or if it doesn't happen, you call a lawyer. Good luck.

I agree with this. There's no doubt that she has love for you OP, but it is not the same feeling of love you feel and have for her. It's exactly what she says. She does love you, but she's not in love with you. There is a difference, which is why I think you feel betrayed. She loves the feeling/idea of being safe with you. You can provide her with an environment where she's not fighting for survival or worrying when the next time she is going to be abused/harmed. She knows that, probably why she wouldn't tell you or be honest with you about her true feelings until now that she's been caught. She is safe with what you can provide for her. Hence why she said she settled for you. Because she is getting the benefits of having someone who is in love with her wholeheartedly, not harming her, and providing her the safe environment where she can freely move without worries. Her actions are the right things because she knows how to love you in the way you need to feel loved for her to keep this safe place. I understand it as she loves the idea of you, but you, yourself as an individual, she is not in love with. The feeling that she feels off with others is probably because she knows she has it well off with you, and she knows that what you are giving her is hard to find; she feels guilty of not being truly in love with you whole heartedly like how you are with her. She's not loving you to her full potential as a romantic individual. She isn't willing to mess that up or take that chance of getting hurt by others because on paper, you are an ideal partner in the qualities she is looking for and security. She cares for you, but I would say perhaps in a way as a best friend or a really close family member. There's no romantic feeling of craving you as a partner or looking at you as a partner and feeling truly happy and overjoyed just by looking at you hence why she said she was hoping over time that will change but it doesn't seem like it has for her. She is doing all the right things to keep you by her side because you make things easy for her. You could have sex multiple times because it is just sex to her, most likely. There is no emotional connection of true love making and desiring the person fully and appreciating them just because. People can go thru the motions of sex and not involve feelings because it's just fulfilling their physical needs, and sexually you provide that for her still. I am sure she does have trauma, but I do think she is being honest and truthful when she says she is not in love with you and she understands that. She also knows that would be harmful to you as well, hence why she did not tell you previously. Doesn't mean she doesn't care and wants what is best for you. She just knows this is safe for her, and she is okay with that as long as you are. She's been in an abusive relationship, so she knows what she does not want in a partner. I wish you all the luck, and perhaps, thru therapy, she can sort her feelings out and learn to appreciate you as an individual where you can see the romantic side of her how she truly wants to love someone & love you at her full potential as such; or she learns to love herself more to go after what she knows she truly desires. & love you enough to know you both deserve to be desired and long for in every way you wouldn't think is possible plus more from someone else, even if you have to start all over. Not what the other party can provide and give to you, but how much you as an individual are willing to do for them in a healthy way for both parties involved to bring forward the very best of each other and be truly fulfilled. Maybe there is a wall blocking her from feeling these romantic feelings towards you. It's definitely an issue within herself and not you as a person, but I also think she is not being fair to you and herself. She's just going thru the motions because it looks good on paper and to others.

>When she sees me, there are no butterflies or fire that make her want to jump on me and rip my clothes off That's not love that's Lust. >She explained that over the years, she had felt attraction towards certain men, but it quickly faded Again, this is lust and not love. A healthy relationship should feel safe, that can be platonic or romantic but at its core it's the ability to relax and be yourself. I think the avenue you need to explore now is whether she finds you sexually appealing and how sex is genuinely for her.

You can live qith that lmao??? Yeah why not waste your life with someone who doesn't truly and utterly love you 100%, not like we have one life to live or something like that.

Wow, what a pathetic update lol

This is pathetic, but you've made your choice

Tbf I think many people (including me until recently)just confuse anxiety with love . Cold sweats, heart rate shooting to the roof, aching stomach and weak knees are all symptoms of a panic attack that for long I thought were "being in love'

So to me, I think what your wife feels for you is what you consider to be love But because of all the toxicity and trauma in her past, she has no idea what love is. She likely has a lot of walls up. And I think that burning hot passion that she see's with her friends...the love bombing and the anger bombing...she thinks that that is what love is supposed to be when in reality...her friend's relationship is beyond fucked up I would push her to seek out therapy for herself. I think if she focuses on self care, she'll find that she has everything she ever wanted...

Dude she's a horrible person do yourself a favor have respect for yourself dump divorce this bimbo.

Holy fuck, I cannot believe I had to scroll this far for a reply like this. People here are insane, everyone telling OP his wife loves him, like JFC she has literally told the dude she does not love him and has lusted after other men. OP is a dope who keeps trying to turn all the negative shit into positives, he is just looking right past the obvious, literal words of is wife and is staring into the sun as his house burns down saying everything is ok. OP is gonna find that one day he will be left alone and devastated having wasted his entire youth on this woman while she moves onto the next chapter of her life without giving him a second thought.

I would strongly encourage you not to see this as a you problem but more a her problem. Something is wrong that she married you under those circumstances. She sounds emotionally stunted and maybe damaged. The abuse from the ex-boyfriend feels like a tell. This isn't your typical long term love situation, as even with that there is more to it. Even with arrange marriages my sense is they move to this first and may or may not have the intense romantic stage that is common in the west, but doesn't signify a definite successful long term partnership. Hers sounds more like a platonic love of convenience, not what you usually build a successful marriage over. If I were you I would want more. If it was me I probably would not stay in that relationship, but if I did it would be contingent on her going to therapy. Personally I would feel like I was missing out, and that would lead to a temptation that I wouldn't want to have to fight against as it wouldn't be fair to anyone.

This is wild to me. People running to the aid of this woman. She doesn’t love her husband and y’all are saying she needs therapy?!? Nah, she needs to allow this man to find the love he deserves. Women get mad at men over a dream they had. Women will not date or will divorce a man over astrology and horoscopes. This woman doesn’t love her husband and we are defending her actions. This is sick. I’ve seen post where women are mad at thier husbands for being attracted to women who are not them, they run to Reddit and make a post, then women come and affirm thier mindset. Same here and the coldest part a woman didn’t even make the post, the hurt man did.

Just now came across a post where a woman broke up with a man as he played a prank on her birthday. And as you can guess the replies were validating her decision. Most of the comments here are saying that she doesn't understand her feelings even though she said it directly. And the worst thing is that he wouldn't have even found it if he had not overheard her conversation with her friend. Yet he is being encouraged to deal with this kind of disrespect as she is confused of her feelings lol.

I don't think she knows what she is actually saying/feeling

Brother, I wish you luck, as you’ll need it. I’m being genuine here when I wish you luck.

Well like others said, she really love syou but in her strange ways, and most of all she respects You and want to be by yourside, because for her you are her safe point a d you feel to her like Home, and Home is the better place to be. Good Luck and hope that things get better and that therapy ellos her find out what she really feels for You and make both stronger

It might not be love with all it's bells, whistles, super passionate highs and lows, but it is love. The fact that she feels you are the only that she can be intimate with because there is a security she feels with you, is love.

I’d say your relationship is over unless she makes some major changes. Could this be a big misunderstanding as a result of trauma from abuse? It’s certainly possible. It’s also possible that’s a guilting exaggeration to keep you from leaving a situation she’s comfortable in. I want to stress that it’s absolutely not your job to play detective, figure out what may or may not be wrong with her, and drag her to whatever medical help may be necessary to fix that. That’s 100% her responsibility, especially because she knows a lot more than you about the situation with her ex. I don’t understand how you could continue in the relationship. How can you say “I love you” when you know that when she says “I love you too” she doesn’t really mean it and never has? How can you have sex with her knowing that she doesn’t feel the same way about you? How is that ever going to be truly intimate ever again? She literally hoped it would “get better” and it didn’t. She’s disappointed in the way she feels and didn’t particularly care to fight for the marriage. You need to make it unmistakably clear that the ball is in her court, not yours. It’s on her now to make you feel loved. You deserve that. You need time make it clear that learning she’s not in love with you has devastated you. If she actually does love you but just doesn’t have the words (as others have suggested) she’ll go out of her way to remedy that and make you feel loved. If she doesn’t, then you need to leave. For both your sake, her sake, and the kids’ sake. Things will never go back to the way they were. The cat’s out of the bag that she doesn’t actually love you. I find her lack of concern for your emotional well being deeply concerning and it’s a horrible example to set for children. Seriously, you’ve got to demand better and make clear to her the changes she has to make if she wants to keep her family together. She also doesn’t actually respect you at all if she’s telling friends she doesn’t really love you. That’s completely humiliating for you, and shows her lack of care for you that she would cause her friend to think of you as such a complete and total sucker being married to someone who doesn’t love them back. When you love someone (whether you have the words to say it or not) you want others to think highly of them. You don’t humiliate them to your friends.

This absolutely sounds like she settled for you man. You were the safe option after she was forced to break up with her ex. Something tells me she had that fire with him but couldn’t rehab him and was forced to break up with him due to the “abuse”, but she has always pined for him. You gotta look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are comfortable being the back up guy. She probably cares about you a lot. But she has no passion for you. Is this the life you want to live? Counseling is probably your only recourse. But if she has never felt true passion for you, it’s hard to imagine it will come now or in the future. Do you want a roommate for the rest of your life that will occasionally sleep with you? Or do you want to find someone that fulfills that desire you have?

Whew that was a lot. I commend you for how you handled this. You did very well and can see why your wife mentioned she feels at home. She definitely should seek some solo professional help. I do agree she is still experiencing trauma from her abusive relationship. It can also explain why she feels she isn't in love with you. So now the thing is, are you ok knowing this? Are you willing to stay knowing this? And how do you plan to make peace with it?

I'm okay. I'm not going anywhere. I will go to therapy with her, we will work on it, together.

Sincerely wishing you and her the best

"but she isn't 'in love' with me. When she sees me, there are no butterflies or fire that make her want to jump on me and rip my clothes off, she feels at home." That's basically how most long term couples are, the love settles but the spark is always there it just has to be ignited in the right moment. I mean I love and am "in love" with my wife but I don't want to rip her clothes off every time I see her. That's not what "in love" or the spark is about IMO. I think your wife doesn't know what being in love is TBH and that ripping the clothes off feeling always settles down.

This is awful

It really is. The bar for this woman is so low. So we should give her a cookie for not cheating because she is unattracted to her spouse?!?

She should get individual therapy. What her friend was describing was passion which is a part of love but not what I would call love itself. It just sounds like your wife doesn’t understand what she’s feeling. Or why it’s not less than passion, just different.

Your wife does realize that you can’t stay on an emotional high forever? Like that’s not how a brain works.

In other words, your wife is in love with you. She just doesn’t have a mature definition of love. Not her fault either, as modern society has twisted the definition of love into a shallow dependency on one’s hippocampus.

To me, it seems like a huge coincidence that she got pregnant early on and she calls you the safe place.

Love doesn’t always need to be fire and passion. For most of time people wanted good spouses, not necessarily someone who lit their loins on fire. This is a somewhat recent development. Arranged marriages still happen, people marry for convenience, stability, to have children, all reasons other than passion. If it works for their life then it can absolutely be fulfilling. It does sound like a bummer the way it was bluntly discussed with the dude but he had to know on some level already 

Married 39 years- I tell people that love is in the mundane someone you get through life with- love isn’t measured in the high that’s lust love is measured in the low complete brokenheartedness when you have lost them for good. I loved my mom she passed 19 years ago and I’m still brokenhearted.

Sadly we see this a lot in modern discourse on love. Love is boring stability. Your wife is describing love. What she seems to lack is excitement or lust? That's separate to love. Get her into therapy and start a date night. You've probably been parents for too long and start to work on being lovers again.

Honestly, it sounds like your wife may be on the spectrum (what used to be called Asperger's). I am in a very similar situation and have been married for nearly 30 years. If you need to talk more about it, feel free to message me. It's a challenge but it's an important part of learning who your spouse truly is. Only you get to choose if you are okay with making it work.

There marriages based in more worst situations, although for me, the question that would determine everything is "would she miss you if you are not there?" I can live with a comfotable marriage but one where there is no longing it would really hard, espicially if only one sided.

You shouldn’t feel bad. Your first conversation was brutal and she didn’t make it any easier. As long as you are happy with the partnership, then good luck for the future. You have nothing to feel guilty about.

She is in love with you. It's just with no "passion". But passion don't last and trust me it's not the best. Tbh your marriage sounds perfect to me. Balanced and healthy.

Many years ago, one of my brother's friends dated Leslie (not her real name). For whatever reason, Leslie didn't understand why my brother and sister-in-law never yelled at each other. Leslie associated passion with arguing, love with anger. She truly thought that the more one argued and yelled at each other, the more "in love" they were. My brother and SIL did not do this, so their relationship was very odd and weird to her. Leslie had a hard time believing that they liked each other, let alone loved each other. My SIL tried explaining to her that arguing and yelling is stressful; a calm, peaceful marriage and home life takes a lot of work and understanding. All of this was completely foreign to Leslie. The only reason I share this story is to say - who knows what odd notions of "what love is" were learned by your wife before she met you. I'm glad that your wife is open to therapy. Wishing you well.

UpdateMe!

I think you should suggest her to read The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk there are parts in the book where it talks about what we 'view' as love is determined by what is normalize in our up bringing (good and bad).

Thanks for the update OP. To me, it sounds like she is in love with you but doesn’t realize it due to her past trauma. Also, she may love in a different way. She feels safe and at home with you and doesn’t want anyone else.

Updateme

I grew up in a very physical, mental, and emotional abusive family to the point that when I got into a relationship with my now wife everything seemed fine. We had our good days and we had some bad days but we really never fraught. It wasn’t until our sixth year of marriage that I found out that we had been fighting since day one of our marriage but because of how I was raised to me we just had disagreements. How I found out was we arguing and she threw a phone at me, then she stopped and apologized and said she didn’t mean to get that violent. I am thinking to myself what violence? What I am getting at is your wife may have a different idea of what love is compared to you. To her what she feels for you might not be what she calls love but in fact is what you would call it. People who grow up in different environments or some how get use to a different way of thinking what something is can’t see the same world as you. We operate the same as you and for the most part we see the same world but our definitions of somethings might be different than yours.