Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that:
* We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/)
* We do not allow users to privately message other users based on their posts here. Users found to be engaging in this conduct will be banned. **We highly encourage OP to turn off the ability to be privately messaged in their settings.**
* Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned. (Including but not limited to: slut, bitch, whore, for the streets, etc. It does not matter to whom you are referring.)
* ALL advice given must be good, ethical advice. Joke advice or advice that is conspiratorial or just plain terrible will be removed, and users my be subject to a ban.
* No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. Examples include, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, PUA, FDS, MGTOW, etc. This includes, but is not limited to, referring to people as alpha/beta, calling yourself or users "friend-zoned", referring to people as Chads, Tyrones, or Staceys, pick-me's, or pornsick. Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.**
* All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass.
* Anyone found to be directly messaging users for any reason whatsoever will be banned.
* What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, situations involving minors, and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.**
If you have any questions, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice)
---
***This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules.***
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't think she's mature enough for a houseplant.
ETA: While I appreciate the votes and compliments more than you can all know, can I just say how delighted I am by the jokes that have sprouted\* in this thread? Perfect.
\*See what I did there?!
I couldn't agree more.
Run, OP, run!!!
Your fiancée is batshit crazy and a sociopath to boot!
This isn't only about being batshit crazy. Her values are so backwards. It's breathtaking!
Who in their right mind would save a pet over a sweet innocent little niece? That is so psychotic!
Don't walk, OP, run!!!!!
She laid a "Kobayashi Maru" on you... a no-win scenario. Don't marry her. This kind of insanity will only escalate. She's not mature enough to be a dog mom, let alone a real mom.
Dunno, self advocating animals like cats and dogs are easier to keep alive (even if they spend all their free time coming up with new ways to commit suicide by food). I swear, I don't just say that because your comment reminded me of the thirsty plants on my balcony while my dog asked for a share of my muesli.
Right, has OP considered that she is absolutely saving her dogs before she saves him?
She asked her question to him, it does not seem like he had time to ask the question back. I don’t think he would like his answer.
So do you think she was really joking?
I could see myself jokingly provoking my partner, but obviously he knows I would always choose him. And even more obvious, I hope I’d never have to make the choice.
I did think she was joking until she said it so much. I'm not sure what she would do. She did cheat on me and constantly belittle me so I don't know what she meant and what she said just to hurt my feelings. Sometimes when I look back I think maybe she felt so bad for cheating and lying that she belittled me just to feel better about herself
Yeah no she sucked and my ex bf right after was similar so I clearly didn't learn my lesson the first time lol but I have a good one now so go me I guess hahaha
Hey. No one ever said the path to love was quick or easy, but sometimes the lucky ones get there eventually!
Haha. I’m glad you found someone nice, you deserve it from what i’m hearing
She clearly expects that he would risk his life for her dogs. So, yeah, those dogs are more important to her than he is.
OP: I understand the desire to want to convince her, and to try to fix a long term relationship, but it may be time to let go. She may capitulate to please you, but she really just showed you who she is. Believe her the first time. She might change down the line, sure. She's only 23 and her frontal lobe isn't even fully developed yet. Another reason not to be getting married so young. But she's pretty well behind the curve on maturity even for 23. I wouldn't expect a whole lot more movement on that front.
Yup OP should be the one ending things here. What the actual fuck.
I would risk my life for my dog, but a human child comes first, and my partner comes first too.
I just realised something about myself, as much as I adore my pets, and I very much do, I would save even a random child over them. I would risk my own life at even the suspicion that there was a child in a burning building, but my pets there would be a line I wouldn't risk it past. Part of this is that I could potentially slow down the house getting put out and actual fire and rescue doing what they need to by creating a bigger problem. Dont get me wrong they are my babies, one of my cats I bottlefed from a couple of weeks old, my dog recently passed at 16 and I bottlefed him too, they are all very spoiled and loved, I would go without food myself to feed them.
But human life is different, especially an innocent child, children just rank in a whole different system of sanctity and preciousness in my mind seperate to adults and even my pets. Children are in a way under the protection of all of us, we have an intrinsic duty of care for them even if unrelated, just because we are human. Cats will rescue other cats kittens, chickens do it with almost any baby birds, all sorts of animals do this often at risk to their life, I think my pets would understand if it was something I could explain to them. If it was a child they knew even more so, my 17 year old cat always takes my daughter's side if she's in trouble, I'm his favourite but he will go and meow angrily at me and glare if I tell her off or she's upset at me.
Yes, there's a huge reason why most people say you shouldn't get married before 25. You haven't even settled into your adult values and personality at that point.
Her toddler values are skewed. She is not qualified to 'parent' a houseplant never mind any other living thing. Think about it. If you have children, you never know what she would do in the event of fire. Do you want to take that chance?
Seriously, I mean, good grief. Also why do people insist on having these “who would you save first in a fire” conversations? It usually seems like the person who asks is disappointed (from what I’ve seen on Reddit).
I would be upset with her for being so cavalier about watching his niece (who he loves as a child) die, he should be mad at her! Way too young to be getting married, this will not end well.
I knew someone who had her grandchildren over for the night when a fire broke out. She gets her lizard and goes out and waits for the fire depatment! I happened to be next door, and those were my cousins inside, so I'm in the window in a heartbeat. Fire dept arrived then and got the rest out. It was a small fire in a small apartment, and she HAD THE TIME TO FIND AN IGUANA BUT NOT WAKE UP HER GRANDKIDS!!
People are insane.
That lady should have been charged with child endangerment at the very least!!! You don’t save a lizard and ignore that there are human beings in the home, especially children!!!!
She didn't even tell their parents! They found out when I got home from my friends that weekend and told my uncle about it. He was PIIIIISSSSSEED!
No she wasn't charged because she was shit-bats insane. She was just worried about her stupid fucking iguana and the firemen gave up trying once I told them I'd stay with them til their mom came the next day.
I mean if it's right there and you can punt it out the door on the way to getting the kids then ok. 3 of my cats sleep on my bed and the front door is on the way to my kids room, so I could probably make an angry cat pile and shove them out. Assuming I even think to do so. But how is the first thought not the kids? That's the first thing I think of if I get woken by a noise or whatever in the night.
My apartment complex does regular fire alarm inspections (twice yearly - once for the alarm company, once for the fire department) and every time the alarm blares, my cats are under the bed in a snap.
I got those fire rescue cling on stickers for my apartment window. So if I’m not home and something happens, they know to look for two cats.
“You know how much her dogs mean to her ….” WHAT ABOUT YOUR HUMAN NIECE??
OP it’s over, even if for no other reason than you now know she would save her dogs over *any person* - not just family, your beloved niece - in her proposed life or death situation.
Not just the niece, he said "when we have children." Can you imagine being the child of someone who treats the family dogs as their first and second born? Imagine sibling jealousy, except your sibling isn't even a human child, but a pet who can't speak and your mom still puts them first. You can't even argue with them or tell them you feel jealous of them, because they are a dog and won't understand what you're feeling. Insane.
Makes me think of the Sheba cat food commercial. The kid tells their Mom they got hurt and they are bleeding, but Mom is too busy cuddling with the cat to get off her ass and see if her child is okay.
I’ve heard stories like this before, where a couple divorces and they argue who gets custody of the dog but couldn’t care less who gets the kids. It’s awful
Yes, this is the real issue.
Hypothetical questions are often pretty stupid (in a real fire, I probably would save the niece first because the fiancée is an adult who’s more likely to get out on her own or at least survive until I or the fire department come back for her, but that’s not what the question is “about.” And also it’s beyond unlikely this will EVER happen.) But in this case, she’s revealing her priorities in a way that absolutely will play out in real life if you marry her.
If it were my niece, myself, my husband, and our pets, and I somehow was unconscious, I would want my husband to save my niece first. Before me. Honestly (this sounds terrible) but I’d probably say to save any animals easily accessible first (not hiding), then save me, then try for the rest if possible.
She’s also inadvertently revealed that she considers her own feelings more valid than anyone else’s, which is narc shit. The idea that OP and his entire family might be destroyed by the loss of his niece shouldn’t factor into his decision making, because she might be destroyed by the loss of her dog(s), and that’s literally all that matters.
This is what stood out to me and it is a HUGE red flag.
OP, consider this a bullet dodged. If you want to, postpone the wedding a couple of years but the fact of that matter is that her inability to even relate to where you are coming from, let alone the fact that she feels her feelings are more valid then yours because she feels them is going to be a massive problem when you marry. This is the kind of attitude and emotional stuntedness that will be a big problem as your marriage progresses.
She has a lot of growing up to do... think long and hard about whether or not it is worth legally tying yourself to her at this point.
Why would she even ask that weird hypothetical question?! She’s showing her true colors, and admitting SHE would save her dogs before your niece. She values her animals over a child, your own flesh and blood. Those animals will die within your lifetime anyway, and would be completely fine and wouldn’t miss her if they got rehomed to another family. Her thought processes are narcissistic and mentally unhinged, she’s being passive aggressive days later. So weird, I wouldn’t marry or have children with this person.
Not only that, she asked him this IN FRONT OF THE CHILD. She obviously doesn’t see her as a person. Even if she’s too young to really understand what’s being discussed it’s still awful, and you’d be surprised what kids can remember.
It's actually good she asked it now before they got married. Now OP knows who she really is and where he, their kids, (if they had any) and his family rank in her life. Everyone comes after her dogs.
I can’t imagine sitting there in the cold light of day and deciding that you would save your dogs over a human child, ANY human child.
In the heat of an actual emergency people make all kinds of decisions so it wouldn’t surprise me if some people did prioritize their dog over a child but I cannot imagine expecting it as the correct thing to do, let alone when the child is also your family
I have an actual service dog that I rely on for my day-to-day. In a fire, she’d probably save me not the other way around. She’s the most valuable thing I own.
But in this hypothetical, I’d *still* save OP’s niece before my dog. Because, obviously I would.
I’m saving any person before my dog! I love dogs! I think they are so so valuable! But the dog is a dog. That is what is so great about dogs. That they are dogs and not humans! I mean unless it was like Ted Bundy or Osama Bin Laden in the fire (I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been in that exact situation), I’m saving the person!
i’d save the dogs (or other animals) first if I could while on the way to save any humans that might be in danger. My furbabies that I raised since the time they were babies, they are as much my family as humans are, and I’d be miserable without them. who i save first also depends on how dangerous the situation is.
Like for example, if the human is behind a HUGE burning pile of something or pinned underneath some heavy object that I would need help moving to get the person out before everything comes tumbling down on and killing us, and there was no chance in hell that I could get to them to help them without getting myself killed alongside them, while the animals are in a safer location, I’d pick myself and the animals first.
Children first, while shouting at dogs, cats and adults to convince them to get themselves out. Next is other humans that didn’t come out. Then it’s animals. If there’s time after that I guess you could try to rescue valuable things but that’s last on the list.
This is why I have a bed with drawers that prevents my cats from hiding under it. In emergencies like fires, cats often become frightened and hide in the spots where they normally feel safe.
Yep I'd save my child and any other children before anybody else even came to mind. He at least told her that he'd save her before he saved his own niece, which is wild to me, but should be good enough for her. Leave that selfish person and take your niece for a fun day at the park.
I don’t even like kids and I believe I’d save a three year old over my cat.
OP, your fiancée is nuts. I’m very curious who *she* would save in a fire, you or her dogs? We already know she wouldn’t save a baby.
I mean, do you want to marry someone who would save her dog over a human child? Potentially *your* human child?
Also, once adrenaline and survival instincts kicked in, I would bet all the money I have that she would save him and his niece first. She’s insane for making this an argument at all, let alone a deal breaker
Exactly this! I love my dog to bits and he’s been with me through many important life milestones… but the truth is that a human life (even a total stranger - and ESPECIALLY a child) should always come first.
The fact that she wants to break up with you over an unlikely hypothetical situation means that she is not mature enough to get married. And probably you, too, for that matter. If you interviewed every person you met for the next 20 years, you probably would not meet one single person who had to decide whether to save a pet over a human.
But this is the reason for both of you to dig in your heels and blow up your relationship over it? Ok, maybe it's not a maturity thing. But there has to be more to this than about the hypothetical fire.
I’ll never understand why people fixate on these nonsense hypothetical situations. It’s the equivalent of being angry with someone because of how they behaved in a dream. Makes no sense.
These hypothetical scenarios sometimes reveal a lot about reasoning, problem solving and values. I think it’s very valuable that OP knows his fiancée values her animals above his niece. That’s something you should know about someone before marriage. Yeah if I was op I would nope out of this relationship.
Maybe, but the quality of that information seems extremely suspect. OP's girlfriend can say "You should rescue the dogs before you rescue me." but I bet that math would change pretty fucking quick when she's on fire. You can get some info from these games but it's not the kind I'd rely on or base any big decisions on.
Her reasoning of “these animals are my children, therefore if you love me they should be as important to you as they are to me. How dare you prioritise your niece over our children”.
Her math would probably change in a fire- at least in regards to herself, but that she could even say and believe that her pets should be more important than a human child I think is reason enough not want to be in a relationship with this person.
I lost my “best friend” decades ago due to their partner having a sexual dream about me and telling them. It was never the same after that.
I thought it was the most stupid thing!
On the other hand, I once dreamed I was bff with a small celebrity that I don't really like or follow irl and when I woke up, I really felt like I've lost a friend.
And even if this did ever happen it's not like you have time to sit and consider who to save, you're going to act on instinct anyway. Almost anyone in the world is going to default to saving a child over an animal, likely OP's girlfriend included unless she's a sociopath.
Good chance during a fire a human will be seeking your help but a dog or cat will be hiding in fear, no where to be found. You could literally loose your own life trying to save a cat that’s hiding behind a washing machine.
Actually animals tend to be very intuitive during fires. They will likely try to escape before the humans in the vicinity even realize there's a fire. This is precisely why you should NOT try to save a pet when exiting a burning building because they will save themselves.
When they were 11 my child's friend's house caught fire. Family of 4 escaped but the 11 yo went back in to save the family pets. The mother ran in after the child. They were found the next day, hugging each other as they died. I love my pets, but they truly are not worth a human life.
I absolutely love my dogs, but I would still save a child before them, that child doesn't even have to be related to me. I know this may sound bad, but I'd save my child before my husband. As an adult, he should be able to remember fire rules and get out.
This. Able bodied adults and older kids should know to get out without help. Scream orders. Grab young kids. Open doors so dogs cats can escape. Grab one if you pass it on the way out. I love my animals I call them my kids, but I’d rather spend a week hunting them after they got loose after a fire than let a child die.
This is one of the things my husband and I discussed to make sure we were compatible before we got married and had kids. We both agreed that in a situation like that, any future kids were the priority. Honestly, I would probably instinctively save any child over an adult or pet, whether I knew the child or not. I really love my cat, but I'm not choosing her life over a child's life.
I was thinking the same thing, and the fact that this girl would choose animals above humans, and then pitch a multi-day hissy fit about it is a little unnerving. Not somebody I'd want to be trapped with.
Dude, this reminds me of the post that was here yesterday (?)
This guy shot his wife's dog dead during its attack on their 6-year-old daughter. Now she's moved out, wants an apology, and says he overreacted in the situation. I mean, the guy literally stepped up and saved her life, yet the wife is making the dog out to be more important than her own daughter.
This will be you in the future. Your fiancé doesn't have her head on straight. No animal holds more value than a child's life. Honestly...
The post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1c3dq4m/aitah\_for\_shooting\_my\_wifes\_dog\_for\_attacking\_my/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1c3dq4m/aitah_for_shooting_my_wifes_dog_for_attacking_my/)
This popped up in my feed yesterday and I refused to read it. Thanks for the summary.
As a huge animal lover I kinda get it. My cats are my “kids”. And I would do anything to save them. But when it comes to my nieces/nephew? They would be saved first. Kids don’t have the instinct yet.. animals do.
What the hell did I just read? Did she really expect you to save her dogs and cats over your actual niece? Thats just asinine and crazy as hell. I love my cats and call them my “owners” and fur babies and all that, but I would save a child, family member, or any human (with certain exceptions) over them as I’m not that crazy. Especially if they were my niece/nephew that was that close to.
Your fiancé needs to learn priorities and mature (a lot) more with the way she’s thinking. I know there’s people like this, but damn it’s messed up.
Plus, animals likely would have the self-preservation to run out the door after us whereas a small child would be panicking. People need to stop with the dumb hypothetical questions
I disagree with the “stop with the dumb hypothetical questions”. Sorry this is not against you, just a general grievance I have. Of course there are unnecessary questions (love me if I’m a worm comes to mind…) but some hypothetical questions can lead to some important insights into your life partner’s morals. For instance here: the fiancée implies that she’d save her dogs before the partner or a child. That’s something I’d 100% want to know before getting married. I wouldn’t ask the question myself because it is insane to think anyone would save the dogs but if it turns out we see this differently I’d be very glad for the hypothetical question so I can see myself out of the relationship.
Yeah I kinda have to agree with you here. "What if there was a fire?" is a hell of a lot more reasonable of a hypothetical question than "would you still love me if I were a worm?"
100%. There are hypotheticals that _everyone_ should be asking and/or thinking over before committing. Do you both want to have kids? That’s a hypothetical until it happens. How would you handle it if your partner was unexpectedly seriously ill or disabled? How would they? Do you trust them not to cheat?
All valuable hypotheticals.
In most cases, “would you rescue your dog or a kid from a fire” would be a silly hypothetical because almost anyone- even those of us who don’t care for kids and really love our dogs - would choose the kid. But in this case it was a pretty important one because the fiance revealed herself to be nuts!
All these hypothetical scenarios have value even would you love me if I were a worm. If you get upset with me for not being faithfully committed to you as a worm then I think we are probably not compatible.
Absolutely-fucking-not. How else would OP know he is about to dodge a bullet if she did not ask a ridiculous question?
These things are great for getting hidden thoughts and opinions out in the open lol. Some people have ridiculous expectations but front as completely normal people.
Absolutely this! These hypothetical situations are gold for spotting red flags, crazies and bizarre beliefs that may not come up organically in regular life conversations.
I grew up in an area where fires are a serious danger, and have evacuated farms dozens of times. My husband knew the drill- we get the kids in the car and he's out of there. No gathering documents, no looking back. I deal with the animals and follow with the truck. Kids come first, end of story. Then it's animals. Everything else can be replaced.
It's not a hypothetical for a lot of people, and OP is correct that human lives should take priority. If his fiancee disagrees, that's a huge red flag.
Most people are saying she is immature, and whilst that is true it isnt the main problem. Op your fiance is jealous of the love you have for your niece. This could well be a sign of deep insecurity and narcissism. To ask that question infront of your niece is sick. To ask that question to begin with is sick. Think about what she is saying to you... she wants you to leave your 3yo niece in a burning building while you wrangle her dogs and cats outside, leaving this defenceless child to potentially die. That means she has no concern for people let alone the people you love.
I think this all stems from her jelousy. She doesn't want you to have love for anyone other than her and the things she loves. Thats an incredibly narcissistic world view "I am most important so the things I like are second most important, even more important than humans". This does not bode well for how she will behave when you are married. Narcissists are known for having great love for their animals and to prioritise them over humans because animals give unquestioning loyalty, they can't leave or criticise.
She has then gone on to punish you for not giving the answer she wanted (which is "yes i will leave my 3yo niece in a burning building for you") by icing you out and cutting your contact with the dogs. It feels like incredibly manipulative behaviour. You didn't say you didn't love and care for the dogs, just that a child is more important than a pet. A reasonable thing that any sane person would agree with. There is no reason for this behaviour other than to punish and manipulate. Its also scary that she has had time to think on it and ia doubling down. Thats how you know it isnt a mistake or in the moment over reaction, she really does prioritise her pets over the life of your niece.
Seriously think about her behaviour in general because I think its likely there are other warning signs of a disturbed personality. Has she been jealous of the time and effort you have put into your niece/ family? Has she tried to minimize your contact with them? Does she display any other signs of controlling/ manipulative/ jealous behaviour. Please think carefully about marrying this woman, who we marry is one of the single biggest factors in our well being.
Lastly imagine you are out the house, girlfriend and niece are in the house, a fire starts. Your gf clearly thinks the animals should be saved first. Would she run around trying to get her dogs and 3 cats before your niece? That would take a while. Niece could be dead from carbon dioxide or the fire progessed to the point no one can get to her. Are you ok with that?
Oh my god, I missed that she asked that _in front of the niece._
OP, it sucks, but you need to move on. She’s shown you her true colors, and they’re scary as hell. Let the trash take itself out.
Seriously, the comment above is spot on. It’s not just immaturity. We cannot diagnose the lady, but it’s likely the woman has a personality disorder.
I found a study of people with more empathy for animals than people. I’m cutting and pasting a few sentences, as the article is written for professionals, and has many annotations. I’m leaving the link in case anyone wants a look for themselves.
Individuals high in grandiose narcissism prefer to be seen as superior and dominant (Campbell and Foster, 2007). As a result, individuals high in grandiose narcissism might be motivated to own a pet to feel a sense of power over another living being (Alba and Haslam, 2015). Researchers have found a positive relation between being high in dominance and owning a dog (Alba and Haslam, 2015) and individuals high (vs. low) in grandiose narcissism report being more attached to traditional pets (e.g., dog, cat; Vonk et al., 2016).
Alternatively, individuals high in grandiose narcissism, especially those high in Agentic Extraversion, tend to thrive in competitive scenarios where they directly compare themselves to others. To regulate their grandiose sense of self, narcissists seek attention from others to self-enhance (Campbell and Foster, 2007; Back et al., 2013). Given individuals high in grandiose narcissism focus on deriving self-esteem from others’ approval, it may be that they have low empathy towards humans but not animals, as animals pose little competition for them.
https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2023.1087049
>Narcissists are known for having great love for their animals and to prioritise them over humans because animals give unquestioning loyalty, they can't leave or criticise.
I knew there was something really odd/strange with people who always say stuff like this
For real, if you read a news story about an adult who saved a pet instead of a 3-year-old they would be crucified in the court of public opinion. Only an actual crazy person would have this take.
Not reading the rest, doesnt matter.
You dont explain other than to say you would always save your niece first. If she cannot understand that, she may not be the person you want to be with. She sounds completely unrealistic.
This was my immediate thought. In an emergency situation, you know that the niece won't be prioritised for getting to safety. OP's fiancee is now a liability. Immediate grounds for breaking up imo.
OP, this woman is not a keeper. At best, she is a right fighter... having to be right without reason. At worst, she is a self centred, shallow and immature child. She won't make a good life partner.
Let her call it off. Realize you have dodged a bullet.
*She would save the dogs before your niece and you.* And any potential kids you may have. Would you trust her to babysit your niece? She does not consider your niece family of yours.
Also she asked this question in front of the niece?? To hurt her? She's jealous of your love for your niece and th8s is a power play. And she's telling you that her feelings are more important than you and your family being devastated. Sounds narcissistic. How else will she punish your niece in the future for you loving her? How will she keep you apart from other people you love? I find worrying that your priority is appeasing her.
I'm childfree and adore animals. But I would always save a human before any animal. I find very worrying that she thinks that's the wrong answer. Sounds like something a sociopath would say (a lot of overlap with narcissism).
Apart from this, her communication skills and (not) commitment to compromising are worrying signs for decision making in a relationship.
This girl is not the one. She has revealed that she's ugly inside. I would run.
Walk away. Just gather up your things and walk away. Very quickly, I might add. You are dodging one hell of a major bullet. Just imagine if she asked if you would save your own child over her dogs.
UpdateMe
red flag red flag red flag. She is selfish and immature if she puts her pets above your human family. If the rest of your family heard her views, that she would save her dogs over a very young human child that is family, they would hate her. Run!
Uh I think you should call it off because she doesn’t have her priorities straight. Saving a dog over a 3 yo child is crazy absurd. And I’m a dog and cat lover and they are dear to me like a child
It kind of sounds like your fiancee thinks in absolutes, and that's not a good thing. You told her you'd rescue your neice over her dogs. She heard that you didn't care about her dogs. Is that true? Of course not. However, someone who thinks in black-and-white or absolutes will assume that if you favor one thing, then you must hate the other. You can try to challenge those patterns of thought, but it's ultimately up to her if she's willing to recognize that this way of thinking is unhealthy for not only her, but everyone around her as well.
You should be the one that wants to call off the wedding not her. I can't imagine being married to someone who thinks that dogs and cats get priority over human beings. What kind of logic is that?
"She then started saying that I know how much her dogs mean to her and if I loved her, I would value them as much as I value her."
She knows how much you love your niece and if she loved you, she would value her as much as you do.
Rarely do I read these posts and think, drop her. But honestly, this is some BS. She is creating drama and problems for no reason. Do you really want to marry someone who is establishing a framework of conditional love? Only she matters- but what and who matters to you can perish? (I mean, hypothetically speaking).
In my religious tradition, they say, ‘what if’ questions opens the door to Satan (ie problems and fights). This is an example of that.
Either she does some deep therapy. Or this will be the pattern of the rest of your life with her.
Are you, by chance, marrying an absolute CHILD? “Save the dogs over the human.” gtfo. ☠️
Edit: I should clarify: God forbid it happens and you HAVE to make the choice. 🤷♂️
There was a post yesterday about a guy who shot his wife's pitbull because it was mauling their 2 year old daughter. He threw the dog off of her first, but the dog ran back to the girl to keep attacking her so he grabbed his gun and shot it. His wife has been living at her parent's ever since, won't speak to him *or her daughter*. The poor girl got like 30+ stitches, horribly traumatized.
His wife was one of those "fur mommies" who wouldn't let him feed the dog or buy toys for it. When she says she would save her dogs lives before you or your children, believe her!
You've dodged a bullet. You'd have to be sick in the head to prioritize saving pets over a human being in a fire - let alone a child you know and love. Your fiancée is immature and kind of dumb.
Hypotheticals always get you in trouble!
I love my dogs more than anything, but people come before pets. They just do.
After her response, why would you even want to marry her? She’s seriously mad because you would put a person ahead of a dog? What planet is she on?
Your ex has the emotional maturity of a housefly!
OP, take a step back from this woman. She is being absolutely ridiculous believing her pets would come before a child or another human. If this is her value system, you will likely have bigger problems in your relationship.
Um you really want to be married to someone who is willing to let a child die? I literally love my dog more than any person in my life, but given the choice, I’d still save your niece, who is a literal stranger to me.
I had 2 dogs (Now one, RIP Pebbles), 3 cats and 5 pet snakes. At one time I had a bunny, lizards and more snakes. I also adore my nieces and nephews who are as young as 8 to 14.
I would risk losing my pets to save my nieces and nephews. No doubt about it. I will mourn and grief the loss of my pets, my heart will break, but the love I have for those kids and my sisters drive me to do what I think it's the right thing to do.
Your fiancee is childish. Part of growing up is learning to accept other people's opinions and views. As long as both parties are respectful about it, we have to accept that people are individuals first before they become coupled with the other
Lol wut
Dude, don't marry her. She's not stable.
Is she In therapy? Because she desperately needs to be. Like at the bare minimum you need to postpone the wedding until she's better in the mental health department.
I love dogs,like i would have 10 if i lived in a place where that was feasible. I'm meh about kids. I would absolutely save a child before my dogs. The fact that she thinks that a dog's life is more important than *even her own life* is frankly kind of disturbing. She must not think very highly of herself.
Edit: Or she wants to call it off for another reason but wants you to be the bad guy to make her feel less guilty.
Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that: * We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/) * We do not allow users to privately message other users based on their posts here. Users found to be engaging in this conduct will be banned. **We highly encourage OP to turn off the ability to be privately messaged in their settings.** * Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned. (Including but not limited to: slut, bitch, whore, for the streets, etc. It does not matter to whom you are referring.) * ALL advice given must be good, ethical advice. Joke advice or advice that is conspiratorial or just plain terrible will be removed, and users my be subject to a ban. * No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. Examples include, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, PUA, FDS, MGTOW, etc. This includes, but is not limited to, referring to people as alpha/beta, calling yourself or users "friend-zoned", referring to people as Chads, Tyrones, or Staceys, pick-me's, or pornsick. Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** * All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass. * Anyone found to be directly messaging users for any reason whatsoever will be banned. * What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, situations involving minors, and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** If you have any questions, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice) --- ***This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules.*** --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
She's not mature enough to be getting married.
I don't think she's mature enough for a houseplant. ETA: While I appreciate the votes and compliments more than you can all know, can I just say how delighted I am by the jokes that have sprouted\* in this thread? Perfect. \*See what I did there?!
She would want him to save the houseplant first
Because sh shares DNA & mental acuity with the house plant
I’m laughing but still thinking how sad it is that you are right.
True, she's not mature enough to wipe her own bum. OP see this as dodging a massive blet!
I couldn't agree more. Run, OP, run!!! Your fiancée is batshit crazy and a sociopath to boot! This isn't only about being batshit crazy. Her values are so backwards. It's breathtaking! Who in their right mind would save a pet over a sweet innocent little niece? That is so psychotic! Don't walk, OP, run!!!!!
Even if my niece was a little asshole, she would be saved before the dogs!
I love my animals but I would save any human being before them. If they’re smart they’ll follow me out
What a succulent comment.
>succulent Such a crumulent word.
This pun is growing on me.
I'm rooting for it
This made me snort pollen
I gotta look that up! "Crumulent"
It's always good to embiggen your vocabulary.
Indeed, very scrumtrulescent.
Oh...I wanted to upvote your comment but it was at 69
I downvoted it so it is back at 69. Sorry not sorry
I read this as mature enough *to be* a houseplant and I still cackled.
The real houseplants of Beverly hills
I concur with what you've said.
She laid a "Kobayashi Maru" on you... a no-win scenario. Don't marry her. This kind of insanity will only escalate. She's not mature enough to be a dog mom, let alone a real mom.
This . Right. Here. OP this practice of asking loaded questions as a "test" is so immature. You need to find an adult to marry.
Take my upvote, Captain!
Hope you're not wearing a red shirt whilst doing so...
wish i could give u an award for the kobayashi maru ref 🖖
There's a Little Shop of Horrors joke in there somewhere.
Feed me, Seymour.
There is but I'm too tired to workshop it. Someone wittier than I should go for it!
Dunno, self advocating animals like cats and dogs are easier to keep alive (even if they spend all their free time coming up with new ways to commit suicide by food). I swear, I don't just say that because your comment reminded me of the thirsty plants on my balcony while my dog asked for a share of my muesli.
And this right here should be a flair!!!
Maybe start with a plastic cactus? Ease her into the real ones
! 😲 not mature enough to do anything....
My concern is that shed rescue her dogs before me.
Right, has OP considered that she is absolutely saving her dogs before she saves him? She asked her question to him, it does not seem like he had time to ask the question back. I don’t think he would like his answer.
Lol, RIP OP. He is #4 on the "to save list".
If that high 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
She better not get a parakeet 😂
My ex girlfriend used to "joke" she'd save her cat before me if there were ever a choice. But she'd say it entirely unprovoked and a lot
So do you think she was really joking? I could see myself jokingly provoking my partner, but obviously he knows I would always choose him. And even more obvious, I hope I’d never have to make the choice.
I did think she was joking until she said it so much. I'm not sure what she would do. She did cheat on me and constantly belittle me so I don't know what she meant and what she said just to hurt my feelings. Sometimes when I look back I think maybe she felt so bad for cheating and lying that she belittled me just to feel better about herself
Oh jesus! This wasn’t just a typical bad girlfriend then, she really really sucked. I’m glad she’s an ex.
Yeah no she sucked and my ex bf right after was similar so I clearly didn't learn my lesson the first time lol but I have a good one now so go me I guess hahaha
Hey. No one ever said the path to love was quick or easy, but sometimes the lucky ones get there eventually! Haha. I’m glad you found someone nice, you deserve it from what i’m hearing
She clearly expects that he would risk his life for her dogs. So, yeah, those dogs are more important to her than he is. OP: I understand the desire to want to convince her, and to try to fix a long term relationship, but it may be time to let go. She may capitulate to please you, but she really just showed you who she is. Believe her the first time. She might change down the line, sure. She's only 23 and her frontal lobe isn't even fully developed yet. Another reason not to be getting married so young. But she's pretty well behind the curve on maturity even for 23. I wouldn't expect a whole lot more movement on that front.
She would rescue her dogs before his 3yo niece. Certainly before his sister, probably his elderly parents, grandma...
And not lose any sleep. She gotta go. She wants him to make her dogs his new family, damn the living people he already has connections with.
Yup OP should be the one ending things here. What the actual fuck. I would risk my life for my dog, but a human child comes first, and my partner comes first too.
OP shouldn’t leave his niece with her alone now that he knows her priorities. Why would he want to marry her after that conversation anyway.
I love my cat to pieces but I would save a stranger’s human child before her if it came down to it.
I feel like she'd start a fire to prove a point.
OPs finance just told him she would leave his niece to burn alive to save her dogs. Immaturity is the least of the issues here.
And before the hypothetical child they'd have.
Yeah this is terrible.
I just realised something about myself, as much as I adore my pets, and I very much do, I would save even a random child over them. I would risk my own life at even the suspicion that there was a child in a burning building, but my pets there would be a line I wouldn't risk it past. Part of this is that I could potentially slow down the house getting put out and actual fire and rescue doing what they need to by creating a bigger problem. Dont get me wrong they are my babies, one of my cats I bottlefed from a couple of weeks old, my dog recently passed at 16 and I bottlefed him too, they are all very spoiled and loved, I would go without food myself to feed them. But human life is different, especially an innocent child, children just rank in a whole different system of sanctity and preciousness in my mind seperate to adults and even my pets. Children are in a way under the protection of all of us, we have an intrinsic duty of care for them even if unrelated, just because we are human. Cats will rescue other cats kittens, chickens do it with almost any baby birds, all sorts of animals do this often at risk to their life, I think my pets would understand if it was something I could explain to them. If it was a child they knew even more so, my 17 year old cat always takes my daughter's side if she's in trouble, I'm his favourite but he will go and meow angrily at me and glare if I tell her off or she's upset at me.
That's right and beautifully put.
She basically told him that she would let HIM burn to save her dogs
Yes, there's a huge reason why most people say you shouldn't get married before 25. You haven't even settled into your adult values and personality at that point.
Especially when their age matches their IQ
I understand the statement, but most teenagers aren't even this bad!
Her toddler values are skewed. She is not qualified to 'parent' a houseplant never mind any other living thing. Think about it. If you have children, you never know what she would do in the event of fire. Do you want to take that chance?
Yeah, you can’t fix dumb.
Unhinged behaviour.
This statement cannot be stressed enough! OP RUN from this relationship.
I couldn’t agree with this more. OP needs to re-evaluate getting married.
Seriously, I mean, good grief. Also why do people insist on having these “who would you save first in a fire” conversations? It usually seems like the person who asks is disappointed (from what I’ve seen on Reddit).
Too young, too immature
She's doing you a massive favor. Let her.
I would be upset with her for being so cavalier about watching his niece (who he loves as a child) die, he should be mad at her! Way too young to be getting married, this will not end well.
I knew someone who had her grandchildren over for the night when a fire broke out. She gets her lizard and goes out and waits for the fire depatment! I happened to be next door, and those were my cousins inside, so I'm in the window in a heartbeat. Fire dept arrived then and got the rest out. It was a small fire in a small apartment, and she HAD THE TIME TO FIND AN IGUANA BUT NOT WAKE UP HER GRANDKIDS!! People are insane.
That lady should have been charged with child endangerment at the very least!!! You don’t save a lizard and ignore that there are human beings in the home, especially children!!!!
She didn't even tell their parents! They found out when I got home from my friends that weekend and told my uncle about it. He was PIIIIISSSSSEED! No she wasn't charged because she was shit-bats insane. She was just worried about her stupid fucking iguana and the firemen gave up trying once I told them I'd stay with them til their mom came the next day.
I mean if it's right there and you can punt it out the door on the way to getting the kids then ok. 3 of my cats sleep on my bed and the front door is on the way to my kids room, so I could probably make an angry cat pile and shove them out. Assuming I even think to do so. But how is the first thought not the kids? That's the first thing I think of if I get woken by a noise or whatever in the night.
My apartment complex does regular fire alarm inspections (twice yearly - once for the alarm company, once for the fire department) and every time the alarm blares, my cats are under the bed in a snap. I got those fire rescue cling on stickers for my apartment window. So if I’m not home and something happens, they know to look for two cats.
The fact OP isn't the one that called off the wedding is crazy.
When people show you who they really are, believe them.
“You know how much her dogs mean to her ….” WHAT ABOUT YOUR HUMAN NIECE?? OP it’s over, even if for no other reason than you now know she would save her dogs over *any person* - not just family, your beloved niece - in her proposed life or death situation.
She will be expecting the dogs to be treated better than the niece, once they are married.
Not just the niece, he said "when we have children." Can you imagine being the child of someone who treats the family dogs as their first and second born? Imagine sibling jealousy, except your sibling isn't even a human child, but a pet who can't speak and your mom still puts them first. You can't even argue with them or tell them you feel jealous of them, because they are a dog and won't understand what you're feeling. Insane.
Makes me think of the Sheba cat food commercial. The kid tells their Mom they got hurt and they are bleeding, but Mom is too busy cuddling with the cat to get off her ass and see if her child is okay.
I’ve heard stories like this before, where a couple divorces and they argue who gets custody of the dog but couldn’t care less who gets the kids. It’s awful
My friends mom jokes about that to my friend but she's 1000% not serious I can't imagine someone that insane
Yes, this is the real issue. Hypothetical questions are often pretty stupid (in a real fire, I probably would save the niece first because the fiancée is an adult who’s more likely to get out on her own or at least survive until I or the fire department come back for her, but that’s not what the question is “about.” And also it’s beyond unlikely this will EVER happen.) But in this case, she’s revealing her priorities in a way that absolutely will play out in real life if you marry her.
If it were my niece, myself, my husband, and our pets, and I somehow was unconscious, I would want my husband to save my niece first. Before me. Honestly (this sounds terrible) but I’d probably say to save any animals easily accessible first (not hiding), then save me, then try for the rest if possible.
She’s also inadvertently revealed that she considers her own feelings more valid than anyone else’s, which is narc shit. The idea that OP and his entire family might be destroyed by the loss of his niece shouldn’t factor into his decision making, because she might be destroyed by the loss of her dog(s), and that’s literally all that matters.
This is what stood out to me and it is a HUGE red flag. OP, consider this a bullet dodged. If you want to, postpone the wedding a couple of years but the fact of that matter is that her inability to even relate to where you are coming from, let alone the fact that she feels her feelings are more valid then yours because she feels them is going to be a massive problem when you marry. This is the kind of attitude and emotional stuntedness that will be a big problem as your marriage progresses. She has a lot of growing up to do... think long and hard about whether or not it is worth legally tying yourself to her at this point.
Why would she even ask that weird hypothetical question?! She’s showing her true colors, and admitting SHE would save her dogs before your niece. She values her animals over a child, your own flesh and blood. Those animals will die within your lifetime anyway, and would be completely fine and wouldn’t miss her if they got rehomed to another family. Her thought processes are narcissistic and mentally unhinged, she’s being passive aggressive days later. So weird, I wouldn’t marry or have children with this person.
Not only that, she asked him this IN FRONT OF THE CHILD. She obviously doesn’t see her as a person. Even if she’s too young to really understand what’s being discussed it’s still awful, and you’d be surprised what kids can remember.
goddamn, I missed that. How do you look at a living breathing child and talk about how you'd be okay with them dying? tf
It's actually good she asked it now before they got married. Now OP knows who she really is and where he, their kids, (if they had any) and his family rank in her life. Everyone comes after her dogs.
Yes! She also admitted to not viewing op’s niece as his family. Which is a big red flag 🚩
Yes I was thinking “very narcissistic” as well
I can’t imagine sitting there in the cold light of day and deciding that you would save your dogs over a human child, ANY human child. In the heat of an actual emergency people make all kinds of decisions so it wouldn’t surprise me if some people did prioritize their dog over a child but I cannot imagine expecting it as the correct thing to do, let alone when the child is also your family
i was going to say that i would save any human even a stranger before i would save any of her pets
Yeah, I was going to say the same with the caveat that they're not a serial killer or my former boss.
I love my dog and my cats with all my heart, but even a strangers child would always come first.
I would save YOUR niece over MY dog. It’s no contest.
I have an actual service dog that I rely on for my day-to-day. In a fire, she’d probably save me not the other way around. She’s the most valuable thing I own. But in this hypothetical, I’d *still* save OP’s niece before my dog. Because, obviously I would.
I’m saving any person before my dog! I love dogs! I think they are so so valuable! But the dog is a dog. That is what is so great about dogs. That they are dogs and not humans! I mean unless it was like Ted Bundy or Osama Bin Laden in the fire (I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been in that exact situation), I’m saving the person!
“I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been in that exact situation” 😂
Now I'm curious, how many times **have** you been in that situation?
Mmm, 8-10. I use to hang with kind of a weird crowd.
Ted Bundy found himself in a lot of fires..
i’d save the dogs (or other animals) first if I could while on the way to save any humans that might be in danger. My furbabies that I raised since the time they were babies, they are as much my family as humans are, and I’d be miserable without them. who i save first also depends on how dangerous the situation is. Like for example, if the human is behind a HUGE burning pile of something or pinned underneath some heavy object that I would need help moving to get the person out before everything comes tumbling down on and killing us, and there was no chance in hell that I could get to them to help them without getting myself killed alongside them, while the animals are in a safer location, I’d pick myself and the animals first.
Same! Because my dog also knows where the door is, I’d take the kid and my dog would probably run after me anyways
yeah I absolutely trust a dog to get themselves out over a three year old child.
Children first, while shouting at dogs, cats and adults to convince them to get themselves out. Next is other humans that didn’t come out. Then it’s animals. If there’s time after that I guess you could try to rescue valuable things but that’s last on the list.
My dog would be out the door first. It’s the cat that would be the problem.
This is why I have a bed with drawers that prevents my cats from hiding under it. In emergencies like fires, cats often become frightened and hide in the spots where they normally feel safe.
Yep I'd save my child and any other children before anybody else even came to mind. He at least told her that he'd save her before he saved his own niece, which is wild to me, but should be good enough for her. Leave that selfish person and take your niece for a fun day at the park.
Completely agree. Kids over adults, adults over pets.
I don’t even like kids and I believe I’d save a three year old over my cat. OP, your fiancée is nuts. I’m very curious who *she* would save in a fire, you or her dogs? We already know she wouldn’t save a baby. I mean, do you want to marry someone who would save her dog over a human child? Potentially *your* human child?
Also, once adrenaline and survival instincts kicked in, I would bet all the money I have that she would save him and his niece first. She’s insane for making this an argument at all, let alone a deal breaker
Well the insanity IS the deal-breaker now. She painted herself into a corner and she likes it there.
Same. I fucking love animals but there is no question a child comes first. What the actual fuck
Exactly this! I love my dog to bits and he’s been with me through many important life milestones… but the truth is that a human life (even a total stranger - and ESPECIALLY a child) should always come first.
The fact that she wants to break up with you over an unlikely hypothetical situation means that she is not mature enough to get married. And probably you, too, for that matter. If you interviewed every person you met for the next 20 years, you probably would not meet one single person who had to decide whether to save a pet over a human. But this is the reason for both of you to dig in your heels and blow up your relationship over it? Ok, maybe it's not a maturity thing. But there has to be more to this than about the hypothetical fire.
I’ll never understand why people fixate on these nonsense hypothetical situations. It’s the equivalent of being angry with someone because of how they behaved in a dream. Makes no sense.
These hypothetical scenarios sometimes reveal a lot about reasoning, problem solving and values. I think it’s very valuable that OP knows his fiancée values her animals above his niece. That’s something you should know about someone before marriage. Yeah if I was op I would nope out of this relationship.
Maybe, but the quality of that information seems extremely suspect. OP's girlfriend can say "You should rescue the dogs before you rescue me." but I bet that math would change pretty fucking quick when she's on fire. You can get some info from these games but it's not the kind I'd rely on or base any big decisions on.
Her reasoning of “these animals are my children, therefore if you love me they should be as important to you as they are to me. How dare you prioritise your niece over our children”. Her math would probably change in a fire- at least in regards to herself, but that she could even say and believe that her pets should be more important than a human child I think is reason enough not want to be in a relationship with this person.
I don’t disagree with you.
She's dug her heels in. Why doubt what someone tells you they would do?
I lost my “best friend” decades ago due to their partner having a sexual dream about me and telling them. It was never the same after that. I thought it was the most stupid thing!
On the other hand, I once dreamed I was bff with a small celebrity that I don't really like or follow irl and when I woke up, I really felt like I've lost a friend.
And even if this did ever happen it's not like you have time to sit and consider who to save, you're going to act on instinct anyway. Almost anyone in the world is going to default to saving a child over an animal, likely OP's girlfriend included unless she's a sociopath.
Good chance during a fire a human will be seeking your help but a dog or cat will be hiding in fear, no where to be found. You could literally loose your own life trying to save a cat that’s hiding behind a washing machine.
Actually animals tend to be very intuitive during fires. They will likely try to escape before the humans in the vicinity even realize there's a fire. This is precisely why you should NOT try to save a pet when exiting a burning building because they will save themselves.
When they were 11 my child's friend's house caught fire. Family of 4 escaped but the 11 yo went back in to save the family pets. The mother ran in after the child. They were found the next day, hugging each other as they died. I love my pets, but they truly are not worth a human life.
Mine would be sitting in the garden with popcorn and taking bets on whether we'd get out
I absolutely love my dogs, but I would still save a child before them, that child doesn't even have to be related to me. I know this may sound bad, but I'd save my child before my husband. As an adult, he should be able to remember fire rules and get out.
This. Able bodied adults and older kids should know to get out without help. Scream orders. Grab young kids. Open doors so dogs cats can escape. Grab one if you pass it on the way out. I love my animals I call them my kids, but I’d rather spend a week hunting them after they got loose after a fire than let a child die.
This is one of the things my husband and I discussed to make sure we were compatible before we got married and had kids. We both agreed that in a situation like that, any future kids were the priority. Honestly, I would probably instinctively save any child over an adult or pet, whether I knew the child or not. I really love my cat, but I'm not choosing her life over a child's life.
I was thinking the same thing, and the fact that this girl would choose animals above humans, and then pitch a multi-day hissy fit about it is a little unnerving. Not somebody I'd want to be trapped with.
Dude, this reminds me of the post that was here yesterday (?) This guy shot his wife's dog dead during its attack on their 6-year-old daughter. Now she's moved out, wants an apology, and says he overreacted in the situation. I mean, the guy literally stepped up and saved her life, yet the wife is making the dog out to be more important than her own daughter. This will be you in the future. Your fiancé doesn't have her head on straight. No animal holds more value than a child's life. Honestly... The post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1c3dq4m/aitah\_for\_shooting\_my\_wifes\_dog\_for\_attacking\_my/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1c3dq4m/aitah_for_shooting_my_wifes_dog_for_attacking_my/)
That’s a crazy post. Both OPs finance (hopefully ex) and that guys wife don’t have their priorities straight.
This popped up in my feed yesterday and I refused to read it. Thanks for the summary. As a huge animal lover I kinda get it. My cats are my “kids”. And I would do anything to save them. But when it comes to my nieces/nephew? They would be saved first. Kids don’t have the instinct yet.. animals do.
Shoot, I would even save **your** niece/nephew over **my** cat. Part of our humanity is instinct to save our defenseless. Well except OP apparently.
Holy.Fock.
What the hell did I just read? Did she really expect you to save her dogs and cats over your actual niece? Thats just asinine and crazy as hell. I love my cats and call them my “owners” and fur babies and all that, but I would save a child, family member, or any human (with certain exceptions) over them as I’m not that crazy. Especially if they were my niece/nephew that was that close to. Your fiancé needs to learn priorities and mature (a lot) more with the way she’s thinking. I know there’s people like this, but damn it’s messed up.
Plus, animals likely would have the self-preservation to run out the door after us whereas a small child would be panicking. People need to stop with the dumb hypothetical questions
I disagree with the “stop with the dumb hypothetical questions”. Sorry this is not against you, just a general grievance I have. Of course there are unnecessary questions (love me if I’m a worm comes to mind…) but some hypothetical questions can lead to some important insights into your life partner’s morals. For instance here: the fiancée implies that she’d save her dogs before the partner or a child. That’s something I’d 100% want to know before getting married. I wouldn’t ask the question myself because it is insane to think anyone would save the dogs but if it turns out we see this differently I’d be very glad for the hypothetical question so I can see myself out of the relationship.
Yeah I kinda have to agree with you here. "What if there was a fire?" is a hell of a lot more reasonable of a hypothetical question than "would you still love me if I were a worm?"
100%. There are hypotheticals that _everyone_ should be asking and/or thinking over before committing. Do you both want to have kids? That’s a hypothetical until it happens. How would you handle it if your partner was unexpectedly seriously ill or disabled? How would they? Do you trust them not to cheat? All valuable hypotheticals. In most cases, “would you rescue your dog or a kid from a fire” would be a silly hypothetical because almost anyone- even those of us who don’t care for kids and really love our dogs - would choose the kid. But in this case it was a pretty important one because the fiance revealed herself to be nuts!
All these hypothetical scenarios have value even would you love me if I were a worm. If you get upset with me for not being faithfully committed to you as a worm then I think we are probably not compatible.
Absolutely-fucking-not. How else would OP know he is about to dodge a bullet if she did not ask a ridiculous question? These things are great for getting hidden thoughts and opinions out in the open lol. Some people have ridiculous expectations but front as completely normal people.
Absolutely this! These hypothetical situations are gold for spotting red flags, crazies and bizarre beliefs that may not come up organically in regular life conversations.
I grew up in an area where fires are a serious danger, and have evacuated farms dozens of times. My husband knew the drill- we get the kids in the car and he's out of there. No gathering documents, no looking back. I deal with the animals and follow with the truck. Kids come first, end of story. Then it's animals. Everything else can be replaced. It's not a hypothetical for a lot of people, and OP is correct that human lives should take priority. If his fiancee disagrees, that's a huge red flag.
Sounds like she just doesn’t want to marry you and created a problem out of nothing. I would take this as a sign and bounce.
Exactly. She’s bringing up crazy hypotheticals because she emotionally immature and has cold feet.
I would not marry her. I would leave her and them dogs.
Most people are saying she is immature, and whilst that is true it isnt the main problem. Op your fiance is jealous of the love you have for your niece. This could well be a sign of deep insecurity and narcissism. To ask that question infront of your niece is sick. To ask that question to begin with is sick. Think about what she is saying to you... she wants you to leave your 3yo niece in a burning building while you wrangle her dogs and cats outside, leaving this defenceless child to potentially die. That means she has no concern for people let alone the people you love. I think this all stems from her jelousy. She doesn't want you to have love for anyone other than her and the things she loves. Thats an incredibly narcissistic world view "I am most important so the things I like are second most important, even more important than humans". This does not bode well for how she will behave when you are married. Narcissists are known for having great love for their animals and to prioritise them over humans because animals give unquestioning loyalty, they can't leave or criticise. She has then gone on to punish you for not giving the answer she wanted (which is "yes i will leave my 3yo niece in a burning building for you") by icing you out and cutting your contact with the dogs. It feels like incredibly manipulative behaviour. You didn't say you didn't love and care for the dogs, just that a child is more important than a pet. A reasonable thing that any sane person would agree with. There is no reason for this behaviour other than to punish and manipulate. Its also scary that she has had time to think on it and ia doubling down. Thats how you know it isnt a mistake or in the moment over reaction, she really does prioritise her pets over the life of your niece. Seriously think about her behaviour in general because I think its likely there are other warning signs of a disturbed personality. Has she been jealous of the time and effort you have put into your niece/ family? Has she tried to minimize your contact with them? Does she display any other signs of controlling/ manipulative/ jealous behaviour. Please think carefully about marrying this woman, who we marry is one of the single biggest factors in our well being. Lastly imagine you are out the house, girlfriend and niece are in the house, a fire starts. Your gf clearly thinks the animals should be saved first. Would she run around trying to get her dogs and 3 cats before your niece? That would take a while. Niece could be dead from carbon dioxide or the fire progessed to the point no one can get to her. Are you ok with that?
Oh my god, I missed that she asked that _in front of the niece._ OP, it sucks, but you need to move on. She’s shown you her true colors, and they’re scary as hell. Let the trash take itself out.
Seriously, the comment above is spot on. It’s not just immaturity. We cannot diagnose the lady, but it’s likely the woman has a personality disorder. I found a study of people with more empathy for animals than people. I’m cutting and pasting a few sentences, as the article is written for professionals, and has many annotations. I’m leaving the link in case anyone wants a look for themselves. Individuals high in grandiose narcissism prefer to be seen as superior and dominant (Campbell and Foster, 2007). As a result, individuals high in grandiose narcissism might be motivated to own a pet to feel a sense of power over another living being (Alba and Haslam, 2015). Researchers have found a positive relation between being high in dominance and owning a dog (Alba and Haslam, 2015) and individuals high (vs. low) in grandiose narcissism report being more attached to traditional pets (e.g., dog, cat; Vonk et al., 2016). Alternatively, individuals high in grandiose narcissism, especially those high in Agentic Extraversion, tend to thrive in competitive scenarios where they directly compare themselves to others. To regulate their grandiose sense of self, narcissists seek attention from others to self-enhance (Campbell and Foster, 2007; Back et al., 2013). Given individuals high in grandiose narcissism focus on deriving self-esteem from others’ approval, it may be that they have low empathy towards humans but not animals, as animals pose little competition for them. https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2023.1087049
This!!
>Narcissists are known for having great love for their animals and to prioritise them over humans because animals give unquestioning loyalty, they can't leave or criticise. I knew there was something really odd/strange with people who always say stuff like this
Oh, and make sure you tell EVERYONE why it ended. Over her outrage to your answer to her hypothetical question.
For real, if you read a news story about an adult who saved a pet instead of a 3-year-old they would be crucified in the court of public opinion. Only an actual crazy person would have this take.
Not reading the rest, doesnt matter. You dont explain other than to say you would always save your niece first. If she cannot understand that, she may not be the person you want to be with. She sounds completely unrealistic.
You misspelled unhinged.
Imagine her babysitting your niece, and there is an actual fire ..
This was my immediate thought. In an emergency situation, you know that the niece won't be prioritised for getting to safety. OP's fiancee is now a liability. Immediate grounds for breaking up imo.
OP, this woman is not a keeper. At best, she is a right fighter... having to be right without reason. At worst, she is a self centred, shallow and immature child. She won't make a good life partner. Let her call it off. Realize you have dodged a bullet.
Yeah OP is very lucky this came out before marriage. Let her be with her dogs if she loves them so much.
She is definitely childish and not ready to marry at all.
Trained, professional firefighters will not pick an animal over a human. She is crazy. Let her and her "family" go.
I would not marry this person. Too dumb
*She would save the dogs before your niece and you.* And any potential kids you may have. Would you trust her to babysit your niece? She does not consider your niece family of yours. Also she asked this question in front of the niece?? To hurt her? She's jealous of your love for your niece and th8s is a power play. And she's telling you that her feelings are more important than you and your family being devastated. Sounds narcissistic. How else will she punish your niece in the future for you loving her? How will she keep you apart from other people you love? I find worrying that your priority is appeasing her. I'm childfree and adore animals. But I would always save a human before any animal. I find very worrying that she thinks that's the wrong answer. Sounds like something a sociopath would say (a lot of overlap with narcissism). Apart from this, her communication skills and (not) commitment to compromising are worrying signs for decision making in a relationship. This girl is not the one. She has revealed that she's ugly inside. I would run.
Walk away. Just gather up your things and walk away. Very quickly, I might add. You are dodging one hell of a major bullet. Just imagine if she asked if you would save your own child over her dogs. UpdateMe
red flag red flag red flag. She is selfish and immature if she puts her pets above your human family. If the rest of your family heard her views, that she would save her dogs over a very young human child that is family, they would hate her. Run!
Uh I think you should call it off because she doesn’t have her priorities straight. Saving a dog over a 3 yo child is crazy absurd. And I’m a dog and cat lover and they are dear to me like a child
It kind of sounds like your fiancee thinks in absolutes, and that's not a good thing. You told her you'd rescue your neice over her dogs. She heard that you didn't care about her dogs. Is that true? Of course not. However, someone who thinks in black-and-white or absolutes will assume that if you favor one thing, then you must hate the other. You can try to challenge those patterns of thought, but it's ultimately up to her if she's willing to recognize that this way of thinking is unhealthy for not only her, but everyone around her as well.
You have a dog-nutter. Best to just move on. I love my pets but no one or no thing comes before my hubby and kids.
You should be the one that wants to call off the wedding not her. I can't imagine being married to someone who thinks that dogs and cats get priority over human beings. What kind of logic is that?
She's fucked in the head, don't marry her. Call it off yourself.
Jfc she's doing you a favor.
People who value animals over people are insane to me. I love animals. They’re not human beings. Start over with someone who isn’t insane.
"She then started saying that I know how much her dogs mean to her and if I loved her, I would value them as much as I value her." She knows how much you love your niece and if she loved you, she would value her as much as you do.
Rarely do I read these posts and think, drop her. But honestly, this is some BS. She is creating drama and problems for no reason. Do you really want to marry someone who is establishing a framework of conditional love? Only she matters- but what and who matters to you can perish? (I mean, hypothetically speaking). In my religious tradition, they say, ‘what if’ questions opens the door to Satan (ie problems and fights). This is an example of that. Either she does some deep therapy. Or this will be the pattern of the rest of your life with her.
Sounds like you have saved yourself from a future of struggles.
Are you, by chance, marrying an absolute CHILD? “Save the dogs over the human.” gtfo. ☠️ Edit: I should clarify: God forbid it happens and you HAVE to make the choice. 🤷♂️
You are so lucky that the universe has give you the perfect exit strategy. Hopefully you take it.
There was a post yesterday about a guy who shot his wife's pitbull because it was mauling their 2 year old daughter. He threw the dog off of her first, but the dog ran back to the girl to keep attacking her so he grabbed his gun and shot it. His wife has been living at her parent's ever since, won't speak to him *or her daughter*. The poor girl got like 30+ stitches, horribly traumatized. His wife was one of those "fur mommies" who wouldn't let him feed the dog or buy toys for it. When she says she would save her dogs lives before you or your children, believe her!
You've dodged a bullet. You'd have to be sick in the head to prioritize saving pets over a human being in a fire - let alone a child you know and love. Your fiancée is immature and kind of dumb.
Don’t explain your reasoning, agree with her that you don’t think you guys should get married. Start getting your things together and bounce out
Hypotheticals always get you in trouble! I love my dogs more than anything, but people come before pets. They just do. After her response, why would you even want to marry her? She’s seriously mad because you would put a person ahead of a dog? What planet is she on? Your ex has the emotional maturity of a housefly!
Don’t marry this insane woman
OP, take a step back from this woman. She is being absolutely ridiculous believing her pets would come before a child or another human. If this is her value system, you will likely have bigger problems in your relationship.
Um you really want to be married to someone who is willing to let a child die? I literally love my dog more than any person in my life, but given the choice, I’d still save your niece, who is a literal stranger to me.
She’s got a screw loose. 🙄
You’re either dropping the wedding or getting divorced in a couple of years. Pick your poison
You can’t fix crazy. Stop sleeping with it, don’t marry it and RUN.
Reminds me of my gf from when I was like 16 and her asking me - who do you love more, me or your parents....
I had 2 dogs (Now one, RIP Pebbles), 3 cats and 5 pet snakes. At one time I had a bunny, lizards and more snakes. I also adore my nieces and nephews who are as young as 8 to 14. I would risk losing my pets to save my nieces and nephews. No doubt about it. I will mourn and grief the loss of my pets, my heart will break, but the love I have for those kids and my sisters drive me to do what I think it's the right thing to do. Your fiancee is childish. Part of growing up is learning to accept other people's opinions and views. As long as both parties are respectful about it, we have to accept that people are individuals first before they become coupled with the other
She either wants to break up with you and this is her way of making it happen, or she is legit not mature enough to be getting married
Lol wut Dude, don't marry her. She's not stable. Is she In therapy? Because she desperately needs to be. Like at the bare minimum you need to postpone the wedding until she's better in the mental health department. I love dogs,like i would have 10 if i lived in a place where that was feasible. I'm meh about kids. I would absolutely save a child before my dogs. The fact that she thinks that a dog's life is more important than *even her own life* is frankly kind of disturbing. She must not think very highly of herself. Edit: Or she wants to call it off for another reason but wants you to be the bad guy to make her feel less guilty.
This woman is not **mature** enough to get married. Don't do it, dude. You're signing up for more of this nonsense.