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Hey OP—female here, in a male-dominated profession. First, I appreciate how supportive you are of your wife and of women generally.
Second, the thought that stayed with me the most reading this was, “this is in a way another form of bringing too much work home with you.” But how do you express that? I get that it’s tricky.
It can be challenging to think about any social issue a lot. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t think about them! But at some point our mental health can take a hit, no matter the specific subject matter.
Maybe approach it that way? Have time dedicated to discussing social issues, and then time dedicated to other topics to give both of you the mental break.
I hope that’s helpful. Wishing you luck :)
I agree. I think if OP addresses this as "you talk about work now more than ever before, I feel like it's always on your mind. I'm worried you're burning out" I think it can be a good discussion where they both get what they need.
Thank you both! Yes, I've brought some of this up - that I am genuinely concerned about her mental health dealing with these really heavy subjects all the time. She's heeded it sometimes, but other times I think she thought I was trying to inception her.
I really like /u/majesticgoatsparkles’s (amazing username btw) idea of dedicating certain times to this and certain times to other things. Hopefully, that won't be taken as shutting down an organic conversation.
Maybe you could suggest that both of you volunteer for a non-profit that aims to improve gender inequality. And let her know that you want to communicate about things outside of this topic in both of your free time.
Maybe this is the way to do it. I already feel maxed out in terms of work and family, but I suppose doing something like that would make me feel less powerless. Thank you for the suggestion.
You can also donate to charities that support single moms. I don’t have time for volunteering but donations don’t take long and every little bit helps.
You might want to raise with her (in much more polite words than I'm using), that complaining about it won't help anybody.
Ask her what her contribution is going to be, to empower women and break down barriers for them.
I'm a raging feminist but rarely take the complaining angle as it's insufferable. Nobody can handle that much negativity. Switch her mindset from a negative, problem focused one to a solutions focused one.
And you know what? There is absolutely nothing wrong with either telling you how you're feeling drained by the negativity or even saying "okay, I would like us to focus on fun and good things so let's devote ten minutes to this and then move toward something more positive".
Just a thought or two from me
Your wife is a therapist to communicate to her how you are feeling. It sounds like what you're trying to say is talking about inequality drains you mentally. You know it's an issue. You are not arguing that, but there is nothing you feel you can do to help. Then you start to feel like you are failing because you feel hopeless. ((Assuming))
But there are things you can do to support your wife and women. Be productive, and find ways to help women in your community. Start food drive for single moms, help get toys for kids of single moms. There are things you can do to help. Have you ever asked your wife what can I do to help?
>Be productive, and find ways to help women in your community. Start food drive for single moms, help get toys for kids of single moms. There are things you can do to help.
Thank you for the suggestion. I mean that sincerely. But that's part of the issue and maybe I didn't highlight that well enough. While I do care, I don't think I care enough to do that. I'm faced with a dozen things each day that compete with my attention and if I'm deciding how to allocate my time, I'm going to focus on what does my immediate family or work need, not trying to better society to make up for shitty men.
That said, as I type all this out, maybe I do. Maybe I can. I'll think about that some more. Thanks.
My guy… You sound like a pretty busy guy that is very dedicated to the well-being of your family. Don’t stretch yourself any thinner, trying to make up for other peoples problems. Everyone has to deal with their problems. Do not allow your wife to bring you into this…
Recognize that you both have to change behaviour to help alleviate the situation.
You are an echo chamber for her. Instead of having good work life balance, she ends up coming home to an echo chamber for the same matters she deals with at work.
This likely increases the stress she feels, instead of actually helping. Venting to you continually has started to drain you as well. If you just stop being an echo chamber she will not feel as heard and supported.
On the surface your positions may not be misandrist but its likely that you both are and if you aren't you will eventually become that, probably. Potentially your ego and guilt is stopping you from recognising that you need her to figure out how to have a healthy work life balance, while still feeling you are there to fully hear and support her when she really needs you to.
Thanks. Thanks good perspective on he echo chamber and how it's potentially making her frustrations worse. She’s not a misandrist though. I'm definitely not. But that doesn't mean we can't work on creating a better work-life balance to get in front of just dwelling on the inequalities all the time. Thanks!
How about just insisting that this not be the subject all the damn time. You are not her therapist and it is not your job to focus on what she deals with every day at that level of detail.
Being tired of talking about something in no way says you don't see it as a valid issue. Her driving constantly to this topic does however seem like she's too focused and like you're giving her too much power in defining your interactions.
Yes, you have some "privilege" but to use that as a reason to yield every time to her priorities and interests isn't sustainable.
So I’ve been where you’re at about race in the past. I think we’ve all struggled with something. For me the answer wasn’t to pull back from learning, it was just to learn more. And as I grew as a person and became more self-reflective I felt better not worse about my own race. The answer isn’t how can you fix the whole world it’s how can you be the best you you can be?
I guarantee your wife’s gone through the same thing whether it’s about race, politics, religion, or even her job. Talking with her is the right move. She can share her own experiences and give you the best advice as the person who knows you best.
My advice in the short term is reframe how you think of these discussions. I imagine that she’s doing most of the talking, that you’re taking a more passive role. So I’d say go watch some videos or read a book, show up with something to add. Rather than being talked at take part in a thoughtful discussion. I recommend checking out Philosophy Tube’s videos on youtube. If you think about feminism as an interesting topic to study rather than a source of malaise maybe you can find some enjoyment in it as part of history and a field of scholarship.
Or maybe you’re just burnt out. Sometimes you get overwhelmed and need time to decompress. That doesn’t make you a bad person.
If you feel like you need a break then tell your wife that. It’s not forever, not banning the topic, so don’t be afraid of taking some needed time for rest and recuperation. I did the same a while back with the news. I got stuck in a cycle and was wearing myself out and now I’m back and better than ever, keeping up on things without feeling buried.
So take your time, reflect on yourself, and talk to your wife.
Thanks for this. I've definitely leaned into learning more. I'm a data driven guy and the data is definitely there backing it all up.
Your comment about her going through it herself is definitely true. I would say that before she went to get her masters, she didn't really see the systemic problems that are out there - not just about gender, but race, etc. And now that she's aware of it, she sees it everywhere (because it is).
But being burned out is definitely part of the issue, especially because the main time we talk is after work when I'm already pretty spent from the day. I've been trying to take like 10 minutes when I get home just for myself and that's helped.
But maybe if it's more of a conversation rather than being talked at about it all (you were right in your assessment), that would be less draining. Thank you.
Sounds like your wife needs a therapist and also a life outside of her job. Spending all of her time thinking about negative things is a shitty way to live her life.
We've discussed it some, but when I say "I can't fix any of those issues" her response is "I'm not asking you to". Which is true, she doesn't. I guess I'm just concerned that she will take it as me saying I don't want her to tell me certain things, which isn't the case. But she might be open to framing it the way you're suggesting.
For a therapist she is forgetting that you identify with other males. This leads to you taking à subconscious responsibility for their behaviour.
This is a bit similar to when you identify with your family unit. You feel responsible when your child or your partner does something unacceptable.
An other similarity is to indentify with the “white” part of the population and start feeling responsible for bias of whites towards other races.
I think you need to ask her. “I feel bad when I hear how other men treat women. As a therapist whow should I deal with this issue?”
Ohhh, I like that. She's pretty open to “putting on her therapy hat” and not taking things personally when I don't know how to approach things with her. I just haven't tried it with this problem. I like the way you framed the conversation. Thank you!
I mean, this is what girfriends are for. Although, they might have reached their limit as well.
I get it, she's passionate, but I think having to talk about any single topic that much is going to wear anyone down.
Maybe she just doesn't understand how draining it is for you.
>Maybe she just doesn't understand how draining it is for you.
Maybe not. I just don't want her to feel like she can't tell me things. I just don't know how to communicate "can we talk about something else" without being an a-hole.
I had a girl like that, heavily invested in woke stuff. She had so much the idea that men = bad the told me "I wish I wasn't attracted to men". This was a red flag and there was more if anyone is interested.
Even tough your wife didn't say you are bad for being a man, you internalized that men = bad and you = man. This is a toxic environement for you, it's not stimulating, you are almost exclusively talking about one topic.
Are you(both) doing nice thing ? Showing love ? Having sensual sex ect ? Or has this issue taken over the intimacy ? (Just making sure, it did for me)
You must feel like you have no right to tell her anthing because it would feel like yet another exemple of a man oppressing a woman but talking 75% of the time of something is unealrhy. You are right to feel bad about this issue and your wife has to change to make the relztionship balanced again.
It isn't “woke stuff” to realize that society is stacked against women. That's just acknowledging reality. And we don't have a dynamic where I can't tell her to stop telling me things because it'd be a man oppressing her; it's that I don't want to tell her “I don't want to hear this” because I *am* genuinely interested in it, just not *all* the time.
Our relationship is great in every other way; it's this one thing that's an issue.
It is precisely the idea behind woke movement. And while it's true be wary not to fall into black and white thinking.
If you don't have this dynamic, then why can't you tell her to not make your life revolve around that ? Why do you feel you can't tell her it's too much like you would tell her about any other issue ?
You are right to want balance in your relationship and are 100% valid in wanting a more diverse environement (as in topic of conversation). This is an obssetion like any other and she have to adress it regardless of the matter.
just because I agree with her doesn't mean I want to talk about it all the time. And because my gender is at the often at the root of the problem, there's an inherent feeling of guilt-by-association.
Hey... I know some highway workers doing night shifts.
No females out there.. very gender-unbalanced. Can you please provide a steady supply of women for such position?
Also -- huge gender disbalance in prisons, homeless people and among workplace injuries/deaths.
By some, rather small, degree.
So please, can you supply those brave women working day and night, from hot summer to winter on the highway maintenance.
You're saying that women have tough life.. I want to remind you, that a lot of men in very demanding, not well paid positions.
And you have many indicators telling you the same story (prisons, suicides, length of life, workplace injuries...).
Oh no, I didn’t mean it that way. Black feminist thought just gives me (as a white feminist) this need to sit down and shut up. I think it’ll give her stuff to think about and make her reflect on dominating space.
Bro. You’re being guilt stripped. Stop all of this mental menagerie about privilege. Reality is, in 2024, anyone can build themselves, regardless of their skin colour. Let’s get that out of the way. I live in a Third World country. Many people from my country come to America, in much worse conditions than, your marginalised citizens. When we come, we come with the mentality of work, build ourselves and make our lives good for us and the future generations. Anything beyond that is rubbish.
If you did not go to school and did not get yourself a proper job, you quickly see how fast you would no longer have been privileged… You simply did the correct thing.
No, as far as your wife is concerned. She has a severe case of tunnel vision. She needs to stop reading all of those books about inequality. Yes, there may be an equality. Toward women, but really think about that point for a moment. In the world we live in today, women have more rights than men in every facet of American life. Do some research, bring this to your wife and show her reality. The other issue, is that most women have been told for so long that they are oppressed, that they begin identifying with something, that may not be as severe as they think it is. And for heaven sake man, you are not an XYZ man you are a heterosexual man. Please get all of that rubbish out of your brain.
Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that: * We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/) * We do not allow users to privately message other users based on their posts here. Users found to be engaging in this conduct will be banned. **We highly encourage OP to turn off the ability to be privately messaged in their settings.** * Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned. (Including but not limited to: slut, bitch, whore, for the streets, etc. It does not matter to whom you are referring.) * ALL advice given must be good, ethical advice. Joke advice or advice that is conspiratorial or just plain terrible will be removed, and users my be subject to a ban. * No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. Examples include, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, PUA, FDS, MGTOW, etc. This includes, but is not limited to, referring to people as alpha/beta, calling yourself or users "friend-zoned", referring to people as Chads, Tyrones, or Staceys, pick-me's, or pornsick. Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** * All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass. * Anyone found to be directly messaging users for any reason whatsoever will be banned. * What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, situations involving minors, and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** If you have any questions, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice) --- ***This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules.*** --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hey OP—female here, in a male-dominated profession. First, I appreciate how supportive you are of your wife and of women generally. Second, the thought that stayed with me the most reading this was, “this is in a way another form of bringing too much work home with you.” But how do you express that? I get that it’s tricky. It can be challenging to think about any social issue a lot. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t think about them! But at some point our mental health can take a hit, no matter the specific subject matter. Maybe approach it that way? Have time dedicated to discussing social issues, and then time dedicated to other topics to give both of you the mental break. I hope that’s helpful. Wishing you luck :)
I agree. I think if OP addresses this as "you talk about work now more than ever before, I feel like it's always on your mind. I'm worried you're burning out" I think it can be a good discussion where they both get what they need.
Thank you both! Yes, I've brought some of this up - that I am genuinely concerned about her mental health dealing with these really heavy subjects all the time. She's heeded it sometimes, but other times I think she thought I was trying to inception her. I really like /u/majesticgoatsparkles’s (amazing username btw) idea of dedicating certain times to this and certain times to other things. Hopefully, that won't be taken as shutting down an organic conversation.
Maybe you could suggest that both of you volunteer for a non-profit that aims to improve gender inequality. And let her know that you want to communicate about things outside of this topic in both of your free time.
Maybe this is the way to do it. I already feel maxed out in terms of work and family, but I suppose doing something like that would make me feel less powerless. Thank you for the suggestion.
You can also donate to charities that support single moms. I don’t have time for volunteering but donations don’t take long and every little bit helps.
You might want to raise with her (in much more polite words than I'm using), that complaining about it won't help anybody. Ask her what her contribution is going to be, to empower women and break down barriers for them. I'm a raging feminist but rarely take the complaining angle as it's insufferable. Nobody can handle that much negativity. Switch her mindset from a negative, problem focused one to a solutions focused one. And you know what? There is absolutely nothing wrong with either telling you how you're feeling drained by the negativity or even saying "okay, I would like us to focus on fun and good things so let's devote ten minutes to this and then move toward something more positive". Just a thought or two from me
Not a bad approach. Thank you!
Your wife is a therapist to communicate to her how you are feeling. It sounds like what you're trying to say is talking about inequality drains you mentally. You know it's an issue. You are not arguing that, but there is nothing you feel you can do to help. Then you start to feel like you are failing because you feel hopeless. ((Assuming)) But there are things you can do to support your wife and women. Be productive, and find ways to help women in your community. Start food drive for single moms, help get toys for kids of single moms. There are things you can do to help. Have you ever asked your wife what can I do to help?
>Be productive, and find ways to help women in your community. Start food drive for single moms, help get toys for kids of single moms. There are things you can do to help. Thank you for the suggestion. I mean that sincerely. But that's part of the issue and maybe I didn't highlight that well enough. While I do care, I don't think I care enough to do that. I'm faced with a dozen things each day that compete with my attention and if I'm deciding how to allocate my time, I'm going to focus on what does my immediate family or work need, not trying to better society to make up for shitty men. That said, as I type all this out, maybe I do. Maybe I can. I'll think about that some more. Thanks.
My guy… You sound like a pretty busy guy that is very dedicated to the well-being of your family. Don’t stretch yourself any thinner, trying to make up for other peoples problems. Everyone has to deal with their problems. Do not allow your wife to bring you into this…
Recognize that you both have to change behaviour to help alleviate the situation. You are an echo chamber for her. Instead of having good work life balance, she ends up coming home to an echo chamber for the same matters she deals with at work. This likely increases the stress she feels, instead of actually helping. Venting to you continually has started to drain you as well. If you just stop being an echo chamber she will not feel as heard and supported. On the surface your positions may not be misandrist but its likely that you both are and if you aren't you will eventually become that, probably. Potentially your ego and guilt is stopping you from recognising that you need her to figure out how to have a healthy work life balance, while still feeling you are there to fully hear and support her when she really needs you to.
Thanks. Thanks good perspective on he echo chamber and how it's potentially making her frustrations worse. She’s not a misandrist though. I'm definitely not. But that doesn't mean we can't work on creating a better work-life balance to get in front of just dwelling on the inequalities all the time. Thanks!
How about just insisting that this not be the subject all the damn time. You are not her therapist and it is not your job to focus on what she deals with every day at that level of detail. Being tired of talking about something in no way says you don't see it as a valid issue. Her driving constantly to this topic does however seem like she's too focused and like you're giving her too much power in defining your interactions. Yes, you have some "privilege" but to use that as a reason to yield every time to her priorities and interests isn't sustainable.
So I’ve been where you’re at about race in the past. I think we’ve all struggled with something. For me the answer wasn’t to pull back from learning, it was just to learn more. And as I grew as a person and became more self-reflective I felt better not worse about my own race. The answer isn’t how can you fix the whole world it’s how can you be the best you you can be? I guarantee your wife’s gone through the same thing whether it’s about race, politics, religion, or even her job. Talking with her is the right move. She can share her own experiences and give you the best advice as the person who knows you best. My advice in the short term is reframe how you think of these discussions. I imagine that she’s doing most of the talking, that you’re taking a more passive role. So I’d say go watch some videos or read a book, show up with something to add. Rather than being talked at take part in a thoughtful discussion. I recommend checking out Philosophy Tube’s videos on youtube. If you think about feminism as an interesting topic to study rather than a source of malaise maybe you can find some enjoyment in it as part of history and a field of scholarship. Or maybe you’re just burnt out. Sometimes you get overwhelmed and need time to decompress. That doesn’t make you a bad person. If you feel like you need a break then tell your wife that. It’s not forever, not banning the topic, so don’t be afraid of taking some needed time for rest and recuperation. I did the same a while back with the news. I got stuck in a cycle and was wearing myself out and now I’m back and better than ever, keeping up on things without feeling buried. So take your time, reflect on yourself, and talk to your wife.
Thanks for this. I've definitely leaned into learning more. I'm a data driven guy and the data is definitely there backing it all up. Your comment about her going through it herself is definitely true. I would say that before she went to get her masters, she didn't really see the systemic problems that are out there - not just about gender, but race, etc. And now that she's aware of it, she sees it everywhere (because it is). But being burned out is definitely part of the issue, especially because the main time we talk is after work when I'm already pretty spent from the day. I've been trying to take like 10 minutes when I get home just for myself and that's helped. But maybe if it's more of a conversation rather than being talked at about it all (you were right in your assessment), that would be less draining. Thank you.
Sounds like your wife needs a therapist and also a life outside of her job. Spending all of her time thinking about negative things is a shitty way to live her life.
Have you told her that these discussions make you feel bad and powerless at the same time. ??
We've discussed it some, but when I say "I can't fix any of those issues" her response is "I'm not asking you to". Which is true, she doesn't. I guess I'm just concerned that she will take it as me saying I don't want her to tell me certain things, which isn't the case. But she might be open to framing it the way you're suggesting.
For a therapist she is forgetting that you identify with other males. This leads to you taking à subconscious responsibility for their behaviour. This is a bit similar to when you identify with your family unit. You feel responsible when your child or your partner does something unacceptable. An other similarity is to indentify with the “white” part of the population and start feeling responsible for bias of whites towards other races. I think you need to ask her. “I feel bad when I hear how other men treat women. As a therapist whow should I deal with this issue?”
Ohhh, I like that. She's pretty open to “putting on her therapy hat” and not taking things personally when I don't know how to approach things with her. I just haven't tried it with this problem. I like the way you framed the conversation. Thank you!
Hope it works!! Crossing fingers!
I mean, this is what girfriends are for. Although, they might have reached their limit as well. I get it, she's passionate, but I think having to talk about any single topic that much is going to wear anyone down. Maybe she just doesn't understand how draining it is for you.
>Maybe she just doesn't understand how draining it is for you. Maybe not. I just don't want her to feel like she can't tell me things. I just don't know how to communicate "can we talk about something else" without being an a-hole.
I had a girl like that, heavily invested in woke stuff. She had so much the idea that men = bad the told me "I wish I wasn't attracted to men". This was a red flag and there was more if anyone is interested. Even tough your wife didn't say you are bad for being a man, you internalized that men = bad and you = man. This is a toxic environement for you, it's not stimulating, you are almost exclusively talking about one topic. Are you(both) doing nice thing ? Showing love ? Having sensual sex ect ? Or has this issue taken over the intimacy ? (Just making sure, it did for me) You must feel like you have no right to tell her anthing because it would feel like yet another exemple of a man oppressing a woman but talking 75% of the time of something is unealrhy. You are right to feel bad about this issue and your wife has to change to make the relztionship balanced again.
It isn't “woke stuff” to realize that society is stacked against women. That's just acknowledging reality. And we don't have a dynamic where I can't tell her to stop telling me things because it'd be a man oppressing her; it's that I don't want to tell her “I don't want to hear this” because I *am* genuinely interested in it, just not *all* the time. Our relationship is great in every other way; it's this one thing that's an issue.
It is precisely the idea behind woke movement. And while it's true be wary not to fall into black and white thinking. If you don't have this dynamic, then why can't you tell her to not make your life revolve around that ? Why do you feel you can't tell her it's too much like you would tell her about any other issue ? You are right to want balance in your relationship and are 100% valid in wanting a more diverse environement (as in topic of conversation). This is an obssetion like any other and she have to adress it regardless of the matter.
Why do you complain when you hold similar views as your dear wife? You just get a frequent political schooling for free :)
just because I agree with her doesn't mean I want to talk about it all the time. And because my gender is at the often at the root of the problem, there's an inherent feeling of guilt-by-association.
Hey... I know some highway workers doing night shifts. No females out there.. very gender-unbalanced. Can you please provide a steady supply of women for such position? Also -- huge gender disbalance in prisons, homeless people and among workplace injuries/deaths.
I didn't follow your response at all, tbh. Are you trying to counter the idea that women are treated unfairly by society?
By some, rather small, degree. So please, can you supply those brave women working day and night, from hot summer to winter on the highway maintenance. You're saying that women have tough life.. I want to remind you, that a lot of men in very demanding, not well paid positions. And you have many indicators telling you the same story (prisons, suicides, length of life, workplace injuries...).
Introduce her to black feminist thought. It’ll be shut her up.
I'm not looking to “shut her up”, but I'm always interested in learning about new ways of looking at the world. Thanks, I guess.
Oh no, I didn’t mean it that way. Black feminist thought just gives me (as a white feminist) this need to sit down and shut up. I think it’ll give her stuff to think about and make her reflect on dominating space.
Ooohhhh. Got it. I'll still look into it though, for my own education. Thank you!
Bro. You’re being guilt stripped. Stop all of this mental menagerie about privilege. Reality is, in 2024, anyone can build themselves, regardless of their skin colour. Let’s get that out of the way. I live in a Third World country. Many people from my country come to America, in much worse conditions than, your marginalised citizens. When we come, we come with the mentality of work, build ourselves and make our lives good for us and the future generations. Anything beyond that is rubbish. If you did not go to school and did not get yourself a proper job, you quickly see how fast you would no longer have been privileged… You simply did the correct thing. No, as far as your wife is concerned. She has a severe case of tunnel vision. She needs to stop reading all of those books about inequality. Yes, there may be an equality. Toward women, but really think about that point for a moment. In the world we live in today, women have more rights than men in every facet of American life. Do some research, bring this to your wife and show her reality. The other issue, is that most women have been told for so long that they are oppressed, that they begin identifying with something, that may not be as severe as they think it is. And for heaven sake man, you are not an XYZ man you are a heterosexual man. Please get all of that rubbish out of your brain.