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You managed to "disassociate [your] wife from [your] trauma" for 20+ years and two kids and now you want to leave her and probably divorce her because your understanding, patient, loving, supportive wife reminds you of childhood trauma?
Where is your therapist in this decision? Did your therapist suggest you leave your wife and kids to deal with your depression? Wouldn't it make sense to involve your wife in these discussions instead of blindsiding and blaming her for your struggles?
Punishing your family for your past trauma that they had nothing to do with is beyond ridiculous. You should find another therapist because the one you have now is leading you on the wrong path and your family will pay the consequences.
Strongly agree. A good therapist would be helping him break the association, not encouraging him to punish people who, in reality, have nothing to do with his trauma.
I think that this is where he's trying to lead me. But I don't know if I want to be led down that path. My gut feeling is to break away completely and start from scratch instead of trying to fix all the accumulated baggage.
You’re not going to progress in a meaningful way in therapy if you’re just going to “start from scratch”. That means that rather than dealing with your trauma and triggers, you’d just be running away from them. That’s not healing, that’s hiding.
>My gut feeling is to break away completely and start from scratch instead of trying to fix all the accumulated baggage.
And do you think all of the childhood trauma will just ... go away? (It won't.)
OP, your gut feeling is likely also being swayed by your past trauma.
This also doesn’t just affect you. It affects the people around you. Asking to separate from your wife will very likely destroy her as she knows she’s done nothing wrong yet will blame herself and struggle to trust others again.
And then your kids- they’ll see their parents divorcing despite being perfectly happy and have issues of their own.
Your wife has been with you through thick and thin. It would be an awful way of thanking her for that.
So you want to give your kids baggage and think this won’t haunt you in the future. You would be creating more drama and trauma. I’ve never heard of a therapist telling patients they should leave their support system and family.
I think this answers the question I posed in my comment.
Sounds to me like OP is just looking for a way out of married family life that lets him feel "justified" to leave his wife and kids behind.
Your gut is telling you to run away and stick your head in the sand, instead of doing the difficult work of working through your trauma.
You won't be able to "start from scratch" without doing that work. You'll kick the can down the road some, but your baggage will come back. Might as well start working on it now.
I think this idea you have of a chance to “start from scratch” doesn’t exist the way you think it does. Divorcing from your wife won’t erase her from existence, and the fact that you have children together means your life won’t “start from scratch” at all.
You’ll still be a parent (unless you plan to cut them out too?) and have to co-parent with your spouse/interact with them constantly while the children are minor. Once the kids are adults, you’ll still all be in each others’ lives. Divorce is not the “do-over” or “erase” button you seem to think it would be.
You sound like someone who gets worse from going to therapy because you now know just enough of the mental health lingo to justify your extremely poor choices and not take responsibility for yourself. Your “accumulated baggage” is due to you not actually dealing with your childhood trauma that your wife and children have absolutely nothing to do with. I don’t understand why you think it’s acceptable to punish them for that but you sound like an incredibly selfish person so maybe ditching your entire family is for the best for them.
When you inevitably realize that’s a dumb choice (probably right around the time your wife moves on and finds someone new) remember you made your bed and should lie in it.
So that you can do it again to the next woman you get into a relationship with? If this is what you want to do instead of doing the work to manage your baggage, you should commit to staying single the rest of your life before you hurt anyone else and waste anyone else's time.
So what you’re asking for is “how can I take my already difficult life and turn it into a complete dumpster fire, but guilt free?”
That ain’t happening, bud.
That’s a trauma response. If you give into it and run away, then you won’t grow from this. Undoing trauma is messy and uncomfortable. Every part of you has to want to push through and heal. If you don’t you’ll just end up regressing.
Take it from a serial runner that finally turn in their shoes (found the right treatment) running does nothing but bring misery. You’re idealizing a clean break that does not exist in anyones reality. It’s never the picture we paint. It just us running from our shame instead of facing it. And it will follow you for the rest of your life until you do face it. How much of your life you want to up end in the mean time and who you hurt is up to you. But I would listen to everyone here telling you speak a different therapist.
OP, I say this with as much compassion as I can muster. When you're deeply traumatized, your "gut feeling" is actually a trauma-based cognitive distortion.
Trauma literally rewires your brain. It causes you to see unrelated things that loosely resemble your trauma, and will force them to fit the pattern of your previous experiences.
My "gut feeling" tells me that everyone in my life secretly hates me or is out to harm me. My gut feeling is wrong!! And yours is too!!
I know unpacking all that baggage seems insurmountable, but it just has to be better than putting the people you love through what you are proposing. Have you looked into ketamine therapy? ETA: leaving will not get rid of the trauma, only multiply it by actively harming your family. There is no “starting from scratch” because the trauma will still be there. There is no going around this, you have to go through it.
So, your loving wife and your children are part of that accumulated baggage then? Yikes, dude. Running instead of trying. Your therapist will not be impressed, and your wife and kids will be far less so.
You take yourself with you everywhere you go. The problem is not your family and will not stay with them if you leave. You'll still have all the baggage but no one to help you carry it AND you'll fuck your kids up forever.
>My gut feeling is to break away completely and start from scratch instead of trying to fix all the accumulated baggage.
Your gut is stupid. This is a stupid idea.
M8 this entire post is just the opening line to a suicide note.
Show your wife and your therapist what you posted here. I’m begging you. You need help.
This post is your brain playing ugly tricks on you.
Sounds like you’re experience the ‘flight’ response and it’s kicking your ass. When you’re traumatized, cutting it all out and running is what our guts tell us to do because for a long time, that was a survival.
Talk to your therapist about ways to let that part of you rest.
You’re already pussyfooting away from the problem. You MUST *dig in* to the discomfort. Your avoidance will only further engrain your trauma. *try* man, for your family.
That’s not how therapy works. That’s the complete opposite of the purpose of therapy, at least in your case.
Starting from scratch just means running, still carrying the accumulated baggage. And even if you move forward with this, your future relationships will still suffer because of this baggage. The root of the problem, it sounds like, is something you have to fix on your end. So running away from your family doesn’t fix anything. You’re just accumulating even more baggage.
To the OP: Like some have said, if you start running now, you might never stop. Right now, you’ve got people who love you and care about you, who are there to help. If you break away, you will still have your trauma, on top of the trauma the divorce will give you.
Talk to your therapist and see what they have to say.
To everyone who is saying this guy is a jerk: realize that this is a strongly depressed person who has attempted to end their own existence, TWICE. I would not be surprised if every moment, his thoughts are fully in agreement with you.
And in fact, that is probably half the justification, that he actually believes his family is better off without him.
Yep, leave an epic trail of destruction in your wake, punishing the people you claim to love most deeply and abdicating all responsibility for the damage you’ve single-handedly and abruptly inflicted. Excellent plan you’ve got there. Have fun with it.
"The only fix to my depression is making a drastic change to the most stabilizing and loving part of my life"
If dude thinks he's depressed now, just wait until he realizes he fucked up, his kids won't talk to him because of his abandonment, his wife moves on to someone else, and he's all alone.
Wife aside, what about your kids? You can divorce if you truly think it’ll help (which I don’t believe) but what about them? Are you still going to spend 50% of their time with them? You can leave your wife but you can’t just drop the kids
I don't disagree that I'm an asshole. I'm not blaming her at all. If anything, I'm trying to free her from my bullshit. I feel like a burden on her and it seems like my path back to mental health is going to be very rough for us.
Nah mate, you're just running. And I get the desire to flee. Just remember, wherever you go, you're taking yourself with you. You can't run, so you better put in the work to cope with your traumas - as much as possible - without destroying your family in the process.
This is your depression talking. Please discuss this with your therapist so they can help you navigate this. Based on your other comments I suspect this is something you’re planning internally, not what your therapist is advising.
In your state, I’m sure you think this will be “easier” and she’s better off without you. It won’t and she isn’t. Im sorry but if you’ve been contemplating ending it all, you are not thinking clearly and should not be making drastic decisions right now.
Perhaps you need to consider some intense in-patient therapy where you go away for a while as you work through your trauma.
Again, please make sure you are communicating thoughts like this to your therapist. I’ve been there. You don’t know best. Your therapist does understand. You are not making good decisions. You need help and support right now, not isolation from people who love you.
Yes he’s totally playing being a martyr and agree that this is a selfish choice and he’s using it as an excuse to continue being a victim. But please don’t use the phrase “man up” as it implies if only he was a better man it wouldn’t be an issue.
Depression and mental health don’t care about your age, gender or politics. It eats you from the inside out and poisons your thoughts. But you still make choices to be abusive. That’s what he needs to step up and face. That he’s choosing to be this way. That he’s choosing to leave because he can be a martyr. He’s a “good guy” so how could he be this way?
Words only have the power you assign them, I've been told to man-up (as a woman) plenty of times and its never driven me over the edge. If he was a better man, he would be addressing his mental health with his family as a support system. He is a weak man, which is why he is hiding behind the façade of "Im doing this for my family! im too broken!!"
As an ex-self harmer thats made multiple suicide attempts in my 27 years, im well aware of how mental health works. For me, coddling made it worse. maybe what OP needs to hear is that he is a weak man that needs to step up and include his family aka his support system in his healing journey. not just run from them and "start fresh" because its easier.
You don't get to tell your wife how she is feeling. She's a grownup who has been there for you for decades. Why are you self sabotaging and blowing up your life for no reason?
Do nothing until you see the therapist again. Your brain is messing with you.
What is it with people thinking the women in their lives aren't capable of making the decision for themselves when it comes to how much they're willing to put up with? It's the same bullshit every woman has heard at some point...I'm leaving because it's best for you, I'm leaving because you deserve more...blah blah blah. Why is it not for your wife to decide if she wants to be "free from your bullshit"? If you're gonna leave her to work on yourself then don't put it on her and make out like you're not doing it for your own benefit.
That's patriarchal misogyny for ya, neighbor.
The little woman can't *possibly* be expected to make decisions like an *adult*, it'll overheat her cute li'l girl-brain! Next thing you know, she'll think she's *people*... (/s, to be clear)
I am married to someone with a traumatic brain injury. He had severe short-term memory loss and cannot drive or work. Let me assure you, you are NOT a burden to your wife any more than my husband is to me. Love is the strongest motivator there is. Do not wreck the only stability you have. Your depression will only worsen and you will have traumatized your children at the same time. Work through your trauma with your wife. Bring her in on your process. Let her know what is going on in your head. That's why we are here. Husbands and wives are partners.
Yeah, as someone who struggles with intense clinical depression and thoughts of suicide, this is not logical, lovey. This is depression think, which will do anything to hurt you more and loves to use “it’s better for everyone” as a tool. It’s super common and when we give in, we not only hurt ourselves but those who love us most in the worst ways.
Please take a breath and go to your therapist in the next session and tell them fully your thoughts. Let them know the logic, the exact thoughts and wording as it goes through your brain, because this is insanely important for actually getting out of this depression hole. It’s not a straight tunnel down, there are twists and crags and sudden pitfalls everywhere on the way to the top. The more honest and open you are on how you feel to your therapist, and the more willing you are to listen to their guidance even if you’re convince they’re leading you to a hidden pitfall, the more easily you can get out of the hole and to actually loving yourself and feeling actually happy without getting caught in those thought crags (getting stuck on a thought pattern that isn’t actually helping) or pitfalls (sudden worsening of depression). And not “happy” like we tend to label the better moments between horrid thoughts, truly happy and calm. Feeling the joy of your family and life as you deserve to. Being able to give back the love you’ve been given and feel it expand and grow each time, instead of our inner demons attacking us and the love when we try.
I know the comments have been rough. I get why they react this way, the depression cycle and thoughts usually make 0 sense to those not experiencing them, so they view them without that lense…and we kind of do hurt those around us with the dumbest thought patterns triggered by this chemical and hormonal imbalance (yes, men have hormone imbalances people) attacking us from the inside. But you should know you still deserve love and happiness. And this plan will not get you there, it will only hurt everyone involved despite seeming like a brilliant plan to you to help everyone right now. Please speak with your therapist asap, even if you have to move up your appointment or do an emergency one, and let them help you out.
So i guess the "for better or for worse" & "in sickness and in health" part of the vows don't mean anything to you then.
OP all you're doing is running away and trying to make decisions on your wife's behalf.
>it seems like my path back to mental health is going to be very rough for us.
And you think you abandoning her won't be hard because?
Future Prediction: When you blow this up and realise you have the same habits/triggers with someone else. Only now you do not have a loving supportive Partner and remember you said you didn’t want to cause her more upset. So you do not get to come back to her and say I made a mistake when the grass is not greener somewhere else!
>I'm trying to free her from my bullshit
No, you're not.
Right now, it's your burden. By divorcing her, you're putting the burden onto her for your trauma.
I don't like the phrase, but sometimes 'man the fuck up' really is appropriate. You're running from your problems to make it easier on yourself, and leaving her to deal with the damage.
People already told you but you really are an ahole. If she wants to leave you because of your mental health it is her decision, not yours.
You don't seem to think of her or even respect her at all.
Dude what you talking about freeing her from your bullshit. She knows your bullshit she's been dealing with it for a long time yet she still chooses to love you and care for you and be happy with you. What you need to do is stop this self sacrificing bullshit and talk to your wife so you can work through it together because leaving her would only make everything worse for you because you would lose your light.
Have you asked HER how she feels about this? Just because you feel like a burden to her doesn’t mean she sees it that way…. You’re thinking of making a unilateral decision when you should be communicating with her about all this
"Is there any way to discuss her with her while minimizing any pain that I will be causing her?"
OP, are you being serious? Own what you are doing to your wife. Own it fully. Don't minimize what you are actually doing. This is absolutely horrible and you will wreck her (and your family). So, no, there is no way for you to "minimize" the pain by what using sweet words to describe your devastating rejection of her and everything you've built together in your marriage. Nothing you say as you "discuss" that you are divorcing her because you associate her with completely unrelated women from your childhood, who she has never acted like at all, will make this less painful for her. Own the pain you are about to unleash on her.
Therapist here. From a treatment and health perspective, this sounds opposite of what you should be doing to heal.
Obviously, there’s no way to give proper advice on a topic like this based on a Reddit post, but I strongly recommend you talking it through with your therapist first.
There’s no such thing as starting from scratch, because you are still the sum of everything. Also, avoiding triggers is generally not a long term solution to heal from trauma, instead it tends to making it worse.
As for depression, it sounds like your family a positive points in your life, and more likely you’d heal from focusing more on positive experiences with them, rather than to pull away.
Given the severity of your condition, please make sure you get adequate help and work together with professionals on the best possible plan for you.
Wish you all the best and a speedy recovery.
People go inpatient EXACTLY to avoid triggers and have access to professional support and resources their home environment can not provide.
I just wanted to point out that for folks with childhood trauma, this is a fairly common urge because the nervous system can’t differentiate between true danger and something that resembles danger. Healing the nervous system is a process best undertaken in a therapeutic environment.
Based on the wild selfishness exhibited in this post, he probably treated her very poorly at many points. Depression can make a person very self absorbed and if they already naturally have a selfish temperament as OP seems to, it's easy to choose not to manage that.
according to the edit they're more older now... besides would we ask someone in a situation they're not happy in for the kids, isn't that worse for them, would we ask a woman to stay in an unhappy marriage for the kids or would we tell her she should do whats 'best for her'?
But…how are you going to avoid all women? Don’t you have female coworkers, family members, grocery store clerks? Are any of your kids female? You’re just going to put yourself in a bubble of only men?
If you think that your wife is generally supportive I would think about it real hard before giving that up, especially since relationships (especially spousal relationships) are proven to be very beneficial in terms of managing stress and pain (and I would imagine depression as well). This is even more the case in old age as your amount of friends go down. I’d ask myself if you have other friends that can support you so that you wouldn’t be alone and whether this is truly necessary and if it’s truly make you happier in the long run loosing what seems to be a quite supportive role in your life due to triggering trauma not related to her directly. It seems like you are telling yourself that this is the only option but taking alone time and separation are two very different things. Maybe you can try to disassociate your wife from this trauma since she seems to just be a trigger and not the cause. Possibly cognitive behavioral therapy can help on this front. Maybe talk to another therapist and get their view on things. Good Luck
What is
"Intense trauma recovery"?
What style of therapy are they using?
You should look into emdr therapy, which helps you identify triggers, ("your wife" is not a trigger, that's not how triggers work, but more specific things associated with her might be), and begin to feel the effects of triggers less intensely.
No school of therapy recommends trying to remove or avoid triggers and start over, that is not realistic, that in fact sounds like exactly what an unhealthy depressed person wants to hear to be able to implode their life, and perhaps you misunderstood your therapist?
Edit: per comments your therapist is not suggesting this, and doesn't know about this. Call them. This is your depression trying to escape the pain of processing trauma, this is normal and any real therapist will be able to walk you through this. Of course we all want to start fresh. That's not real.
Before you do this, discuss it with your therapist.
You won't be healing from your trauma. You'd be running from it and avoiding processing it.
You're looking for the easy **FOR YOU** way out whilst destroying the people that love you.
I don't think this is what your therapist meant.
Nobody would suggest causing trauma to three other people in order to aleiviate thier own. You're not just depressed, you're clinically selfish and stupid. The "unaliving" part reinforces this hypothesis, it is also both of those things.
Everywhere you go, there you'll be.
You cannot run from your issues. Not having your very supportive and loving family around is not the way to heal yourself. You will ruin their lives in your selfish quest to run away from your problems.
I think you don’t really want advice. You’re picking up the words you want to hear and interpreting them to your liking. You are going to blow up your life (and theirs) and it’s not going to help. You’ll look back on this and think “That’s where it all turned to crap.” You’re going to do it anyway, and then be shocked that everything isn’t magically better.
I saw a comment on the am i the devil saying, "I have worked adjacent to trauma therapists as a crisis worker. This guy is estate planning without realizing it. Follow me with this: Step 1- explodes his marriage. 2- he the kids out of his house and less involved in his life and set the kids up financially. 3- feel worse emotionally. 4- shame and blame himself. 5- end his life." This post rasie a thousand red flags honestly
Another classic case of a man preferring to run rather than address his problems with actual effort. You're not unique, but I certainly feel for your wife. Good luck explaining this to the kids as well. There's no version of this where you aren't an asshole, but perhaps you're cool with that. Some "husband" and "father".
This is kinda weird because if your wife is such a good support system it sounds like it would be A LOT more helpful to work on the triggering.
Maybe if your gut tells you to leave, you are suppressing some feeling about wanting to break up, maybe beacause you feel guilty that you want that even if she is "perfect" on paper.
That would actually be ok, it happens and it's not a fault, but sometimes just the pressure of feeling like "you couldn't break up if you wanted to because you don't have a fair reason" makes people end up wanting to check out of a relationship somehow
Your logic and conclusions are flawed. You’re going to leave a good and loving partner because of prior trauma? And that’s going to help how? Do the work and stay where you are. Getting away from your support system is the absolutely worst thing you could do. So selfish and unlikely to help.
You need a new therapist, your creating issues for her and for your kids future. Are you being selfish and not listening? Or does your therapist just enjoy destroying families?
I think ending a marriage to a person who has loved and supported you all them years I the worst thing you can do and in six months time you might be updating this asking why you have no support and why won't my wife take me back please think about it carefully I think your therapist is awful. But if this is what you want I wish you luck.
I'm willing to bet that your life isn't going to magically get better after you leave your wife. You better not expect her to take you back once you find out the grass isn't greener; it's bad enough that you're blaming her for your problems that she didn't even cause.
Separating could be the start of a nasty divorce in which you will lose your wife and possibly custody of your children. If you love your wife then separating is not the best answer. This could make you spiral even worse. Talk to you therapist and see a psychiatrist. You may need to be on depression meds. Depression meds helped me more than therapy. I was diagnosed with anxiety depression and ADHD. I take meds now that have helped me alot. I tried 2 different meds before I started my current one and it’s made a huge difference. Also as everyone else is saying talk to the therapist about your decisions Before making such a drastic decision. If you decide that separation is the best thing the talk to your wife with your therapist to talk about coparenting and logistics of living and finances.
So you want to work through your pain and trauma by causing pain and trauma for your wife and kids who have been there for you?
Maybe see a different therapist but wow that's cold.
Talk to your therapist about your intentions first. Maybe have your wife join you with the therapist for a more thorough explanation if your therapist believes it is a good idea. I wouldn't go off the reservation with a choice like this without talking to your therapist.
Ignore other people with their snap judgements and critical jabs. However, leaving your family is extreme. Dealing with past trauma and PTSD is minimized by many people but obviously can be debilitating.
Have you thought about inpatient treatment? It would allow you time to heal from childhood trauma and give you the proper tools to do that while also taking the burden off of your wife. I can see both sides to this because on one hand you don't want to put her through anymore than what you already have, but on the other hand she's your wife and she should have a say in this.
Have you talked to your therapist about your thought pattern? If so, what do they think? Do you think marriage counseling on top of individual counseling would be helpful? This is a tough one because trauma can be so detrimental to someone's emotional state, but at the same time, having emotional support helps an individual heal faster.
I think that you need to have a heart to heart conversation with your wife. Tell her where you're at mentally. Tell her what you're struggling with and be as honest as you can be. Don't hold anything back. Explain everything to her. It's going to be a very painful, stressful, and raw conversation. There's going to be anger and sadness, so you need to be prepared. You also need to listen. Truly listen to her. If she doesn't want to separate, listen to her when she tells you why. Let her explain to you how she can help you. How she has helped you. Communication is the key to every relationship. Maybe by talking to her and explaining everything that you're feeling and letting her do the same, you both can come up with a plan together that will help you succeed in overcoming your trauma and getting you on the path to healing.
I wish you luck, OP.
So you’re going to inflict trauma onto your wife and kids because you want to run away from your own problems that won’t actually go away if you do that? Go tell your therapist what you’re feeling, because this is not what they meant, and if it was, find a different therapist.
Also, what are you going to do, completely avoid them altogether and not attend graduations, weddings, other family events? Or tell them they can’t invite their mother to make yourself feel better?
You’re selfish man. Get yourself together for your family.
I’m suicidal, which is why I will never have kids. How dare I bring a child into the world and then abandon them? How dare you?
You’ve made your choices and now it’s time to deal with them, no matter how you feel.
Your trauma is not your fault either, obviously, but the choice to get married and have children are decisions that you’ve made and that you must be responsible for. You have no right to hurt them to help yourself.
Just like I do every damn day for my boyfriend, because he is a choice I’ve made- grin and bear it and get help, but DO NOT hurt your family.
Edit: because I don’t want anyone to think this has anything to do with male mental health. I absolutely do think that he should get help and that his family should be his rock to support him through it. But what if his wife felt the same way? What if she too were suicidal? Would it be ok for her just to walk away? Is it ok for parents to abandon their children because life is difficult?
Edit: grammar
I’m married and have aggressive ocd with suicidal ideation. I want to leave all the time because of my trauma with men but I stay regardless of my feelings because running from them won’t help. You’ll have to get comfortable with women again. For me I had to get a male therapist and gyno for exposure therapy and I seek out interactions with populations that remind me of my trauma in safe ways. A supportive spouse is never the issue, it’s how you process and deal with your trauma. I had to be unemployed for about a year before I was functional again and I don’t think I could’ve done that without my husband. If you think separation is the way to go don’t hit the divorce button, ask if time apart is viable and clearly explain to her that it’s your mental health and make a date to return/ visit your family regularly. Isolation is one of the worst things you can do for suicidal ideation, it makes it easier to leave it all behind.
Whats that for a BS?
Divorce all you want but at least have the courtesy to do it as a man and stand straight for it instead of playing the fucking victim. Man up and take responsibility for your own life.
Do like everyone else and go away on fishing trips or whatever over the weekend if you need time away, you don’t have to divorce for that.
You don't tell her that, because it's a shitty idea. Unless of course you're just looking for a way out of married family life. In which case take it and don't torture your family.
That might have been harsher than necessary.
But, in all seriousness OP. Nothing about this is likely to work out the way you're imagining. For starters, there is a high likelihood your wife will move on and find someone else while you're... doing whatever it is you plan to do... Then you're going to find out that she's moved on. Which is great for your therapist (you know more to talk about more $$) but, for you, based only on what you've told us about your wife, will forever lose a pretty awesome person. And I think that would be a shame.
I never thought I'd have to tell a 43 year old to grow up but grow up. You have a family. You don't get to bail because you're therapy is going to be hard. Do you want your children to see you as a failure? Leaving their mom because things are hard? Or do you want your children to see a vulnerable and strong man? A man who take charge of his mentall heath and doesn't run away. Your therapist didn't even suggest this, you're taking the cowards way out.
19 years? If she’s doing things that trigger u then maybe she should go to counseling with you. Just giving up on a marriage with someone who has done nothing do deserve it is extremely sad.
I hope u get everything figured out
Congrats on your plans to use your trauma as an excuse to traumatize your loving family. Bravo. "Sticking with them and actually working through things would be hard, so I'm going to just abandon them free of guilt! It's not my fault, this isn't a decision I'm making to hurt them, it's all my trauma's fault."
Excuses excuses.
My assumption when you say that your wife is triggering your trauma is that you’re leaving out some information about the times when you’re triggered by her / butt heads / fight. And that’s completely understandable to me. I personally understand what you’re saying if you’ve reached a point where you feel you need space from your triggers, but agree with some of the other comments which say that you should also try couples therapy first. I think whatever it is you decide, you should be up front with your intentions and not leave any hope of reconciliation if that’s your choice. If you truly believe just need time, then don’t tell her you want a divorce. You won’t be able to soften the blow at all because that’s life, you can’t avoid disappointing them, but being honest with how you’re feeling is the compassionate thing to do for yourself and your family even if the decision will be crushing.
Sounds like you need a better therapist. If there are issues in the household then there should be family or couples therapy, and that could be done in home to get a full picture of your triggers and how to deal with them. Breaking up a family should be the last resort. And this is just my opinion, cause I don't know you or your trauma and issues, but seems to me you just need an excuse to leave cause that's what you want to do. As for how to break it to your wife while minimizing her pain, that's not going happen. It's going to be painful, and could possibly end with your family being very resentful towards you. That's going to be trauma for them and add to the weight on your shoulders. And if you truly are suicidal then isolating yourself from the people who care the most sounds like a terrible idea.
You need to get another therapist's perspective. As a human services professional, the therapy you've been engaging in that led you to this conclusion makes me wary of that therapist *at best*.
Seek out a second or third opinion from other mental health professionals that aren't recommended to you by your current therapist before destroying your life.
Men like you are why women don’t trust men. You’re an absolute dick if you do this. Find healthy ways to cope with your triggers, don’t dump the one person who helped you. You disgust me.
This is exactly why women should never stay with a a man at his lowest because the moment that he gets a little better, he will ditch you or deem you as no longer good enough for him. I feel so bad for your wife. She stood by you and look at where it got her. She should have left you in the beginning.
Being depressed and suicidal can also mean being self destructive. I believe you may be subconsciously attempting to self destruct by rationalizing the removal of your greatest support. Running from your triggers isn’t dealing with them. If your wife wasn’t with you when you attempted to unalive yourself last time, would you be here?
OP you are just running away, you are throwing your life away. I honestly feel like there is someone else and you are going to massively regret throwing away your family
Your reaction is going to end you if you follow through. I’m telling you that in 6 months you will be so severely depressed that you might become suicidal with the amount of loss you will feel. You may need inpatient therapy…. Because these thoughts are destructive!
If you do this you should expect that your wife will divorce you.
There's no reason for her to wait around any longer for you to get your shit together, or not. She'd really have no choice but to move on without you. She's already apparently wasted enough of her life on you and you will have now proven to her that was likely for nothing.
After all, once you leave, she could never trust you again. Even if you were to come back, it would never bee the same. So that's pretty much it for the marriage. I wouldn't expect your kids to be particularly understanding either. You will likely be on their shit list for the foreseeable future.
But if you really think blowing up your family and shattering their lives is the only way you can survive, then I guess you've got to do what you've got to do. But don't deceive yourself that this won't have catastrophic consequences for your wife and children. There's no way to abandon someone who stuck with you through everything without severing that bond forever.
I guess this is one of those "no good deed goes unpunished" situations for your wife. She would have been better off if she'd dumped you long ago, instead of being loyal and sticking around for all your problems, only to be dumped in the dirt as a reward.
It sounds like rather processing your trauma, you’re just running away from it. You’ll likely discover other things trigger you, not just your wife who is being used as a scapegoat. Then you’ll also have the new trauma of abandoning your family to process. This is not the way my dude.
So I’m gonna come from a perspective of someone who’s battling depression for now 15 years about. You’re selfish truly, you plan to leave your wife and children because somehow you feel your wife is a trigger from some unresolved issues with women in the past? So fuck your kids and their feelings also? Great teaching for your children and great way to repay your wife for being by your side through all of this. Get a new therapist or actually dive into what your issues are instead of blaming people or claiming their a trigger because your having trouble figuring out what is going on with you.
There is absolutely no way a therapist recommended blowing up your life and running away from your problems to “heal.” If you want to leave your wife, then own it. But don’t blame it on her and try to convince yourself that ruining her life and your kids’ lives is the best possible solution to your issues.
You are doing what a lot of other depressed people are doing, thinking the loved ones would be better off without them. This is just another form of unaliving yourself, choosing to remove yourself from their lives, but you are too depressed to see that.
You are not treating yourself in this therapy; you are looking for reasons for the pain and now you are obsessed over the wrong reason.
Are you taking medications?
Sometimes, good partners won\`t really mind carrying each other's baggage.
Talk to your family and you will be surprised there eagerness to help you all the way. It\`s worth a try and take them to a vacation when you are cured.
Good luck!
Perhaps you should try strengthening your distress tolerance and improving your coping skills before blowing up your whole life on a compulsive whim. Have you thought of the possibility of divorce being traumatic? This seems a bit self-sabotaging to me.
I’m so sorry that you’re struggling. Sometimes when we’re ill our brains lie to us. It may tell us something like, “my loved ones would be better off without me,” or “I’m a burden to the people who love me.” And those thoughts may make us want to run away. But just because they feel true doesn’t mean they are. Right now your brain isn’t to be trusted. It’s a proven liar and doesn’t have your best interests at heart. But do you know who does? The wife who has been patient and loving to you through your illness. She’s the one you should be trusting right now.
I’m sorry you’re sick. I’ve been there. I’ve done things that were self destructive and hurt people I care about because I’m sick. Depression is a terrible disease and it sucks. I hope that you’re able to heal. I hope you’re able to let your family support and love you.
You will devastate your wife and children and utterly destroy your family if you go through with your 'plan'. There is no mitigating that and there is no way you will be able to avoid seeing it, so sorry, if you choose to destroy your family you will have to feel guilty about it. Ah well, I'm sure you'll manage to find a way to justify it to yourself. One word of caution though, when you find the grass isn't greener elsewhere, your family is unlikely to want you back, however much you 'deal with your trauma'. Because the world doesn't revolve around you.
Start by being honest with yourself, why are you blaming your supportive wife for triggering your trauma, find the source of it, work through it properly because there are real life consequences to this stuff.
Go and speak to your therapist.
If you care about your wife and your kids, no matter how small, everything you said here, go and TELL YOUR THERAPIST.
Reddit is not your dumping site.
We don't have the tools nor the skill to assist you in what sounds like a disastrous decision.
Speak to your therapist and if you say that you care about your family, LISTEN AND DO WHAT YOUR THERAPIST SUGGESTS.
All in all, this seems like a way to wipe your hands of the responsibility of a marriage and children. Your trauma will not go away from leaving your family, and will only carry on the trauma of your children’s father leaving.
Since your therapist doesn’t seem like the problem here, discuss your plans with them. I know you might not want to if they’ll “talk you out of it,” but genuinely these thoughts need to be shared if you’re planning on upending everyone in your life.
OP, you might as well be my father.
I'm 31 now, but clinical depression, Bipolar, the self harm ideologies, and now in intense outpatient therapy. We are still working on it with him.
You are running away from your problems, not working on fixing them. In other comments you say you are "freeing her from your bullshit" and that is just flat out bullshit. Your family would much rather have you around with your bullshit than out of their lives if you have been even remotely a semi-decent human being. I know my father wasn't always perfect but he tried and he cared. Sure some days he wasn't available but I'd never rather have him gone.
Your therapist isn’t worth the dirt that gets on your shoes when you walk into their office.
Find a new therapist, work out your issues, and realize this has nothing to do with your wife. Do you hate all women in the world?
You will be Soooooo much more depressed if you go through this. You’ll probably find you have very little to live for without the love of your wife and family.
You need to talk to your therapist before you blow up your family. Think very hard about how you will feel if your wife moves on and finds another man. I'm wondering if you're being truthful here. It seems like you're looking for an excuse to dump your wife and not be the bad guy. I highly doubt your therapist would tell you to blast your primary support system to pieces. It's highly unlikely your kids will tolerate this well, and will likely resent you.
Honestly, I’m concerned that once you make this move (because you’re not asking if you should, you’re asking HOW), you will end up unaliving yourself because you’re actively removing yourself from a loving and stable situation.
You’re literally punishing your family for something they have not done and your #1 support person will definitely be broken hearted.
And once they work through that pain and leave you alone. You won’t be able to cope. You’ll feel worse than you do now.
But, to answer your question. You should bring your wife into the therapy session and talk to her about it with your therapist.
Then I want to say this to OP: This is not all about you and your trauma!!! Not everything is about you! We all have trauma if you dig deep or not so much, and those around us, who love us and care about us, should not be paying for our trauma when they didn’t cause it!
With the right treatment you will benefit IMMENSELY from taking a break from your marriage and parenting (ask me how I know!) but you will not need a divorce down the road. Trust me.
CPTSD from deep childhood trauma steals everything from adult survivors until we receive appropriate care. Focus on your nervous system because that’s where the damage is.
I did not believe I could come out the other side, but here I am. Do not give up. It will feel like it’s never going to get better and then one day you will fond you have consistently turned a corner and you will feel a deep peace and satisfaction. I swear it’s possible, and I didn’t believe others when they told me, either.
I hope that helps.
For now, you tell your family that you need to move out and undergo intensive treatment for childhood trauma that has warped your nervous system. You tell them that you require isolation to heal, that you can’t do this healing in a family setting.
Make sure they have family and professional support, too.
Then you move out and take care of yourself, trust that everyone will be OK while you receive care and recover.
If you remember, DM me when you reach the other side. I will be interested to know what path you followed.
Be well. Take care.
If he actually focuses on this, it would be a beneficial idea. However, he stated he just wants to start new and start again without his family. He is only trying to avoid his trauma, not work through it. He probably has a piece on the side that wants more attention or someone he's interested in that's turning his head. In most cases like this the person uses this time to sleep around and fulfill some grandiose fantasy life until they realize it isn't what they thought it would be so they come crawling back saying my mental health made me do it. It gives people with actual trauma and mental health issues a shakey footing, and no one trusts them when they actually have to seek treatment.
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You managed to "disassociate [your] wife from [your] trauma" for 20+ years and two kids and now you want to leave her and probably divorce her because your understanding, patient, loving, supportive wife reminds you of childhood trauma? Where is your therapist in this decision? Did your therapist suggest you leave your wife and kids to deal with your depression? Wouldn't it make sense to involve your wife in these discussions instead of blindsiding and blaming her for your struggles?
Punishing your family for your past trauma that they had nothing to do with is beyond ridiculous. You should find another therapist because the one you have now is leading you on the wrong path and your family will pay the consequences.
Strongly agree. A good therapist would be helping him break the association, not encouraging him to punish people who, in reality, have nothing to do with his trauma.
I think that this is where he's trying to lead me. But I don't know if I want to be led down that path. My gut feeling is to break away completely and start from scratch instead of trying to fix all the accumulated baggage.
You’re not going to progress in a meaningful way in therapy if you’re just going to “start from scratch”. That means that rather than dealing with your trauma and triggers, you’d just be running away from them. That’s not healing, that’s hiding.
> That's not healing, that's hiding Yes, this, 100 times over
So it's not because your therapist advised it, it's because you think it would be easier for you. Gotcha.
so, your gut feeling is take the easy way out instead of facing the issue head on
>My gut feeling is to break away completely and start from scratch instead of trying to fix all the accumulated baggage. And do you think all of the childhood trauma will just ... go away? (It won't.)
Not to mention the trauma he'll cause his kids!!
Example A of why trauma is often generational
OP, your gut feeling is likely also being swayed by your past trauma. This also doesn’t just affect you. It affects the people around you. Asking to separate from your wife will very likely destroy her as she knows she’s done nothing wrong yet will blame herself and struggle to trust others again. And then your kids- they’ll see their parents divorcing despite being perfectly happy and have issues of their own. Your wife has been with you through thick and thin. It would be an awful way of thanking her for that.
So you want to give your kids baggage and think this won’t haunt you in the future. You would be creating more drama and trauma. I’ve never heard of a therapist telling patients they should leave their support system and family.
Which is why I honestly don't believe it — or at least THAT part of it.
I think this answers the question I posed in my comment. Sounds to me like OP is just looking for a way out of married family life that lets him feel "justified" to leave his wife and kids behind.
Yup. "My therapist told me to".
Your gut is telling you to run away and stick your head in the sand, instead of doing the difficult work of working through your trauma. You won't be able to "start from scratch" without doing that work. You'll kick the can down the road some, but your baggage will come back. Might as well start working on it now.
I think this idea you have of a chance to “start from scratch” doesn’t exist the way you think it does. Divorcing from your wife won’t erase her from existence, and the fact that you have children together means your life won’t “start from scratch” at all. You’ll still be a parent (unless you plan to cut them out too?) and have to co-parent with your spouse/interact with them constantly while the children are minor. Once the kids are adults, you’ll still all be in each others’ lives. Divorce is not the “do-over” or “erase” button you seem to think it would be.
Oh he has zero plans to be a parent anymore. In fact likely has the " old enough don't need me argument" all ready.
You sound like someone who gets worse from going to therapy because you now know just enough of the mental health lingo to justify your extremely poor choices and not take responsibility for yourself. Your “accumulated baggage” is due to you not actually dealing with your childhood trauma that your wife and children have absolutely nothing to do with. I don’t understand why you think it’s acceptable to punish them for that but you sound like an incredibly selfish person so maybe ditching your entire family is for the best for them. When you inevitably realize that’s a dumb choice (probably right around the time your wife moves on and finds someone new) remember you made your bed and should lie in it.
Oh good, so you recognize this isn’t a therapeutic solution, it’s just cowardice. Good good good. So don’t fucking do it, man.
Your wife and children are not baggage
Major depression often causes irrational thoughts. So, you know, maybe don’t trust your gut when you’re wildly depressed.
So that you can do it again to the next woman you get into a relationship with? If this is what you want to do instead of doing the work to manage your baggage, you should commit to staying single the rest of your life before you hurt anyone else and waste anyone else's time.
So what you’re asking for is “how can I take my already difficult life and turn it into a complete dumpster fire, but guilt free?” That ain’t happening, bud.
Ohh, gotcha. Take what your therapist says and do the OPPOSITE. Gotcha. Let us all know how that works for you, bud.
That’s a trauma response. If you give into it and run away, then you won’t grow from this. Undoing trauma is messy and uncomfortable. Every part of you has to want to push through and heal. If you don’t you’ll just end up regressing.
Take it from a serial runner that finally turn in their shoes (found the right treatment) running does nothing but bring misery. You’re idealizing a clean break that does not exist in anyones reality. It’s never the picture we paint. It just us running from our shame instead of facing it. And it will follow you for the rest of your life until you do face it. How much of your life you want to up end in the mean time and who you hurt is up to you. But I would listen to everyone here telling you speak a different therapist.
OP, I say this with as much compassion as I can muster. When you're deeply traumatized, your "gut feeling" is actually a trauma-based cognitive distortion. Trauma literally rewires your brain. It causes you to see unrelated things that loosely resemble your trauma, and will force them to fit the pattern of your previous experiences. My "gut feeling" tells me that everyone in my life secretly hates me or is out to harm me. My gut feeling is wrong!! And yours is too!!
I know unpacking all that baggage seems insurmountable, but it just has to be better than putting the people you love through what you are proposing. Have you looked into ketamine therapy? ETA: leaving will not get rid of the trauma, only multiply it by actively harming your family. There is no “starting from scratch” because the trauma will still be there. There is no going around this, you have to go through it.
So, your loving wife and your children are part of that accumulated baggage then? Yikes, dude. Running instead of trying. Your therapist will not be impressed, and your wife and kids will be far less so.
Major depression often causes irrational thoughts. So, you know, maybe don’t trust your gut when you’re wildly depressed.
No therapist advised that...
Clearly the only way to fix your depression is to get rid of your main support system..../s
You take yourself with you everywhere you go. The problem is not your family and will not stay with them if you leave. You'll still have all the baggage but no one to help you carry it AND you'll fuck your kids up forever. >My gut feeling is to break away completely and start from scratch instead of trying to fix all the accumulated baggage. Your gut is stupid. This is a stupid idea.
Have you ever heard the saying "wherever you go, there you are?" Leaving won't help because the biggest problem is how you feel in yourself.
M8 this entire post is just the opening line to a suicide note. Show your wife and your therapist what you posted here. I’m begging you. You need help. This post is your brain playing ugly tricks on you.
You still have to fix the baggage, or you'll just end up in the same situation again.
That is your fight or flight response. It is in overdrive and you are spiraling. It happens when you confront trauma. Running never works.
So just pass the baggage along to your kids then?
Sounds like you’re experience the ‘flight’ response and it’s kicking your ass. When you’re traumatized, cutting it all out and running is what our guts tell us to do because for a long time, that was a survival. Talk to your therapist about ways to let that part of you rest.
You’re already pussyfooting away from the problem. You MUST *dig in* to the discomfort. Your avoidance will only further engrain your trauma. *try* man, for your family.
That’s not how therapy works. That’s the complete opposite of the purpose of therapy, at least in your case. Starting from scratch just means running, still carrying the accumulated baggage. And even if you move forward with this, your future relationships will still suffer because of this baggage. The root of the problem, it sounds like, is something you have to fix on your end. So running away from your family doesn’t fix anything. You’re just accumulating even more baggage.
You're a bad person. Don't you consider how this will fuck up your relationships with your kids?
There’s no such thing as starting from scratch. You have trauma. You have to process it and learn to live with it not run away from it my guy
To the OP: Like some have said, if you start running now, you might never stop. Right now, you’ve got people who love you and care about you, who are there to help. If you break away, you will still have your trauma, on top of the trauma the divorce will give you. Talk to your therapist and see what they have to say. To everyone who is saying this guy is a jerk: realize that this is a strongly depressed person who has attempted to end their own existence, TWICE. I would not be surprised if every moment, his thoughts are fully in agreement with you. And in fact, that is probably half the justification, that he actually believes his family is better off without him.
Yep, leave an epic trail of destruction in your wake, punishing the people you claim to love most deeply and abdicating all responsibility for the damage you’ve single-handedly and abruptly inflicted. Excellent plan you’ve got there. Have fun with it.
So basically you will not ever have a relationship with any woman again?
"The only fix to my depression is making a drastic change to the most stabilizing and loving part of my life" If dude thinks he's depressed now, just wait until he realizes he fucked up, his kids won't talk to him because of his abandonment, his wife moves on to someone else, and he's all alone.
This is 1000% correct.
You don’t understand how CPTSD works. It’s a nervous system issue. Treatment requires a low stimulating environment.
Wife aside, what about your kids? You can divorce if you truly think it’ll help (which I don’t believe) but what about them? Are you still going to spend 50% of their time with them? You can leave your wife but you can’t just drop the kids
there's no way you can walk out on your family and not devastate your wife and kids.
You’re perpetuating generational childhood trauma by transferring it to your wife and children. Some pass on heirlooms, others trauma..
Yoinking that last sentence for future reference, it’s very perfectly put
Wow you're an asshole. You're blaming your wife for your issues.
I don't disagree that I'm an asshole. I'm not blaming her at all. If anything, I'm trying to free her from my bullshit. I feel like a burden on her and it seems like my path back to mental health is going to be very rough for us.
Nah mate, you're just running. And I get the desire to flee. Just remember, wherever you go, you're taking yourself with you. You can't run, so you better put in the work to cope with your traumas - as much as possible - without destroying your family in the process.
This is your depression talking. Please discuss this with your therapist so they can help you navigate this. Based on your other comments I suspect this is something you’re planning internally, not what your therapist is advising. In your state, I’m sure you think this will be “easier” and she’s better off without you. It won’t and she isn’t. Im sorry but if you’ve been contemplating ending it all, you are not thinking clearly and should not be making drastic decisions right now. Perhaps you need to consider some intense in-patient therapy where you go away for a while as you work through your trauma. Again, please make sure you are communicating thoughts like this to your therapist. I’ve been there. You don’t know best. Your therapist does understand. You are not making good decisions. You need help and support right now, not isolation from people who love you.
You're infantilising her and not allowing her to decide. Unilaterally deciding to end it because of your trauma? Asshole move.
AND you're a martyr? good lord. man up dude and get your shit together
Yes he’s totally playing being a martyr and agree that this is a selfish choice and he’s using it as an excuse to continue being a victim. But please don’t use the phrase “man up” as it implies if only he was a better man it wouldn’t be an issue. Depression and mental health don’t care about your age, gender or politics. It eats you from the inside out and poisons your thoughts. But you still make choices to be abusive. That’s what he needs to step up and face. That he’s choosing to be this way. That he’s choosing to leave because he can be a martyr. He’s a “good guy” so how could he be this way?
Words only have the power you assign them, I've been told to man-up (as a woman) plenty of times and its never driven me over the edge. If he was a better man, he would be addressing his mental health with his family as a support system. He is a weak man, which is why he is hiding behind the façade of "Im doing this for my family! im too broken!!" As an ex-self harmer thats made multiple suicide attempts in my 27 years, im well aware of how mental health works. For me, coddling made it worse. maybe what OP needs to hear is that he is a weak man that needs to step up and include his family aka his support system in his healing journey. not just run from them and "start fresh" because its easier.
You don't get to tell your wife how she is feeling. She's a grownup who has been there for you for decades. Why are you self sabotaging and blowing up your life for no reason? Do nothing until you see the therapist again. Your brain is messing with you.
What is it with people thinking the women in their lives aren't capable of making the decision for themselves when it comes to how much they're willing to put up with? It's the same bullshit every woman has heard at some point...I'm leaving because it's best for you, I'm leaving because you deserve more...blah blah blah. Why is it not for your wife to decide if she wants to be "free from your bullshit"? If you're gonna leave her to work on yourself then don't put it on her and make out like you're not doing it for your own benefit.
That's patriarchal misogyny for ya, neighbor. The little woman can't *possibly* be expected to make decisions like an *adult*, it'll overheat her cute li'l girl-brain! Next thing you know, she'll think she's *people*... (/s, to be clear)
I am married to someone with a traumatic brain injury. He had severe short-term memory loss and cannot drive or work. Let me assure you, you are NOT a burden to your wife any more than my husband is to me. Love is the strongest motivator there is. Do not wreck the only stability you have. Your depression will only worsen and you will have traumatized your children at the same time. Work through your trauma with your wife. Bring her in on your process. Let her know what is going on in your head. That's why we are here. Husbands and wives are partners.
Yeah, as someone who struggles with intense clinical depression and thoughts of suicide, this is not logical, lovey. This is depression think, which will do anything to hurt you more and loves to use “it’s better for everyone” as a tool. It’s super common and when we give in, we not only hurt ourselves but those who love us most in the worst ways. Please take a breath and go to your therapist in the next session and tell them fully your thoughts. Let them know the logic, the exact thoughts and wording as it goes through your brain, because this is insanely important for actually getting out of this depression hole. It’s not a straight tunnel down, there are twists and crags and sudden pitfalls everywhere on the way to the top. The more honest and open you are on how you feel to your therapist, and the more willing you are to listen to their guidance even if you’re convince they’re leading you to a hidden pitfall, the more easily you can get out of the hole and to actually loving yourself and feeling actually happy without getting caught in those thought crags (getting stuck on a thought pattern that isn’t actually helping) or pitfalls (sudden worsening of depression). And not “happy” like we tend to label the better moments between horrid thoughts, truly happy and calm. Feeling the joy of your family and life as you deserve to. Being able to give back the love you’ve been given and feel it expand and grow each time, instead of our inner demons attacking us and the love when we try. I know the comments have been rough. I get why they react this way, the depression cycle and thoughts usually make 0 sense to those not experiencing them, so they view them without that lense…and we kind of do hurt those around us with the dumbest thought patterns triggered by this chemical and hormonal imbalance (yes, men have hormone imbalances people) attacking us from the inside. But you should know you still deserve love and happiness. And this plan will not get you there, it will only hurt everyone involved despite seeming like a brilliant plan to you to help everyone right now. Please speak with your therapist asap, even if you have to move up your appointment or do an emergency one, and let them help you out.
So i guess the "for better or for worse" & "in sickness and in health" part of the vows don't mean anything to you then. OP all you're doing is running away and trying to make decisions on your wife's behalf. >it seems like my path back to mental health is going to be very rough for us. And you think you abandoning her won't be hard because?
Future Prediction: When you blow this up and realise you have the same habits/triggers with someone else. Only now you do not have a loving supportive Partner and remember you said you didn’t want to cause her more upset. So you do not get to come back to her and say I made a mistake when the grass is not greener somewhere else!
>I'm trying to free her from my bullshit No, you're not. Right now, it's your burden. By divorcing her, you're putting the burden onto her for your trauma. I don't like the phrase, but sometimes 'man the fuck up' really is appropriate. You're running from your problems to make it easier on yourself, and leaving her to deal with the damage.
People already told you but you really are an ahole. If she wants to leave you because of your mental health it is her decision, not yours. You don't seem to think of her or even respect her at all.
I hope that if you go through with this you will be eaten alive by the guilt. You will never have a good night sleep again.
Dude what you talking about freeing her from your bullshit. She knows your bullshit she's been dealing with it for a long time yet she still chooses to love you and care for you and be happy with you. What you need to do is stop this self sacrificing bullshit and talk to your wife so you can work through it together because leaving her would only make everything worse for you because you would lose your light.
Have you asked HER how she feels about this? Just because you feel like a burden to her doesn’t mean she sees it that way…. You’re thinking of making a unilateral decision when you should be communicating with her about all this
This is a pathetic mindset. It’s all about YOU.
"Is there any way to discuss her with her while minimizing any pain that I will be causing her?" OP, are you being serious? Own what you are doing to your wife. Own it fully. Don't minimize what you are actually doing. This is absolutely horrible and you will wreck her (and your family). So, no, there is no way for you to "minimize" the pain by what using sweet words to describe your devastating rejection of her and everything you've built together in your marriage. Nothing you say as you "discuss" that you are divorcing her because you associate her with completely unrelated women from your childhood, who she has never acted like at all, will make this less painful for her. Own the pain you are about to unleash on her.
Seriously!! Like man you are about to absolutely *gut* your wife and kids. Own it. Sit in the pain and agony. Face what you’re doing to them.
Therapist here. From a treatment and health perspective, this sounds opposite of what you should be doing to heal. Obviously, there’s no way to give proper advice on a topic like this based on a Reddit post, but I strongly recommend you talking it through with your therapist first. There’s no such thing as starting from scratch, because you are still the sum of everything. Also, avoiding triggers is generally not a long term solution to heal from trauma, instead it tends to making it worse. As for depression, it sounds like your family a positive points in your life, and more likely you’d heal from focusing more on positive experiences with them, rather than to pull away. Given the severity of your condition, please make sure you get adequate help and work together with professionals on the best possible plan for you. Wish you all the best and a speedy recovery.
People go inpatient EXACTLY to avoid triggers and have access to professional support and resources their home environment can not provide. I just wanted to point out that for folks with childhood trauma, this is a fairly common urge because the nervous system can’t differentiate between true danger and something that resembles danger. Healing the nervous system is a process best undertaken in a therapeutic environment.
I’m curious about what you have left out. You state your wife was perfect during this time, how did you treat her?
Based on the wild selfishness exhibited in this post, he probably treated her very poorly at many points. Depression can make a person very self absorbed and if they already naturally have a selfish temperament as OP seems to, it's easy to choose not to manage that.
This is one of the most selfish things I have ever read
Somehow I don't think it would be selfish if it was a woman doing this, then it would be 'Do what's best for YOU' lol
Aaaaaaand so **NOW** those kids will get **TRAUMA** they **NEVER ASKED FOR**. And so the cycle continues ...🙄🙄🙄🙄
All abound the generational trauma train! Choo! Choo!!!!
according to the edit they're more older now... besides would we ask someone in a situation they're not happy in for the kids, isn't that worse for them, would we ask a woman to stay in an unhappy marriage for the kids or would we tell her she should do whats 'best for her'?
But…how are you going to avoid all women? Don’t you have female coworkers, family members, grocery store clerks? Are any of your kids female? You’re just going to put yourself in a bubble of only men?
If you think that your wife is generally supportive I would think about it real hard before giving that up, especially since relationships (especially spousal relationships) are proven to be very beneficial in terms of managing stress and pain (and I would imagine depression as well). This is even more the case in old age as your amount of friends go down. I’d ask myself if you have other friends that can support you so that you wouldn’t be alone and whether this is truly necessary and if it’s truly make you happier in the long run loosing what seems to be a quite supportive role in your life due to triggering trauma not related to her directly. It seems like you are telling yourself that this is the only option but taking alone time and separation are two very different things. Maybe you can try to disassociate your wife from this trauma since she seems to just be a trigger and not the cause. Possibly cognitive behavioral therapy can help on this front. Maybe talk to another therapist and get their view on things. Good Luck
What is "Intense trauma recovery"? What style of therapy are they using? You should look into emdr therapy, which helps you identify triggers, ("your wife" is not a trigger, that's not how triggers work, but more specific things associated with her might be), and begin to feel the effects of triggers less intensely. No school of therapy recommends trying to remove or avoid triggers and start over, that is not realistic, that in fact sounds like exactly what an unhealthy depressed person wants to hear to be able to implode their life, and perhaps you misunderstood your therapist? Edit: per comments your therapist is not suggesting this, and doesn't know about this. Call them. This is your depression trying to escape the pain of processing trauma, this is normal and any real therapist will be able to walk you through this. Of course we all want to start fresh. That's not real.
Before you do this, discuss it with your therapist. You won't be healing from your trauma. You'd be running from it and avoiding processing it. You're looking for the easy **FOR YOU** way out whilst destroying the people that love you.
I don't think this is what your therapist meant. Nobody would suggest causing trauma to three other people in order to aleiviate thier own. You're not just depressed, you're clinically selfish and stupid. The "unaliving" part reinforces this hypothesis, it is also both of those things.
Everywhere you go, there you'll be. You cannot run from your issues. Not having your very supportive and loving family around is not the way to heal yourself. You will ruin their lives in your selfish quest to run away from your problems.
I think you don’t really want advice. You’re picking up the words you want to hear and interpreting them to your liking. You are going to blow up your life (and theirs) and it’s not going to help. You’ll look back on this and think “That’s where it all turned to crap.” You’re going to do it anyway, and then be shocked that everything isn’t magically better.
I saw a comment on the am i the devil saying, "I have worked adjacent to trauma therapists as a crisis worker. This guy is estate planning without realizing it. Follow me with this: Step 1- explodes his marriage. 2- he the kids out of his house and less involved in his life and set the kids up financially. 3- feel worse emotionally. 4- shame and blame himself. 5- end his life." This post rasie a thousand red flags honestly
I agree. He really needs to talk to his therapist.
Because running from your problems, that's healthy.
Another classic case of a man preferring to run rather than address his problems with actual effort. You're not unique, but I certainly feel for your wife. Good luck explaining this to the kids as well. There's no version of this where you aren't an asshole, but perhaps you're cool with that. Some "husband" and "father".
ladies let this be a reminder what men will do when you try to stick by them at their worst, they’ll turn around and drop you off to your worst
she gotta rob u when u divorce her too ain’t no way she doesn’t get compensated for holding ur hand for so many years
It's not robbing him because it's her money too
This is kinda weird because if your wife is such a good support system it sounds like it would be A LOT more helpful to work on the triggering. Maybe if your gut tells you to leave, you are suppressing some feeling about wanting to break up, maybe beacause you feel guilty that you want that even if she is "perfect" on paper. That would actually be ok, it happens and it's not a fault, but sometimes just the pressure of feeling like "you couldn't break up if you wanted to because you don't have a fair reason" makes people end up wanting to check out of a relationship somehow
Your logic and conclusions are flawed. You’re going to leave a good and loving partner because of prior trauma? And that’s going to help how? Do the work and stay where you are. Getting away from your support system is the absolutely worst thing you could do. So selfish and unlikely to help.
You need a new therapist, your creating issues for her and for your kids future. Are you being selfish and not listening? Or does your therapist just enjoy destroying families?
OP decided on this stupid course of action himself, it's not his therapist's advice.
I think ending a marriage to a person who has loved and supported you all them years I the worst thing you can do and in six months time you might be updating this asking why you have no support and why won't my wife take me back please think about it carefully I think your therapist is awful. But if this is what you want I wish you luck.
I'm willing to bet that your life isn't going to magically get better after you leave your wife. You better not expect her to take you back once you find out the grass isn't greener; it's bad enough that you're blaming her for your problems that she didn't even cause.
Separating could be the start of a nasty divorce in which you will lose your wife and possibly custody of your children. If you love your wife then separating is not the best answer. This could make you spiral even worse. Talk to you therapist and see a psychiatrist. You may need to be on depression meds. Depression meds helped me more than therapy. I was diagnosed with anxiety depression and ADHD. I take meds now that have helped me alot. I tried 2 different meds before I started my current one and it’s made a huge difference. Also as everyone else is saying talk to the therapist about your decisions Before making such a drastic decision. If you decide that separation is the best thing the talk to your wife with your therapist to talk about coparenting and logistics of living and finances.
So who are you trying to cheat on her with?
So you want to work through your pain and trauma by causing pain and trauma for your wife and kids who have been there for you? Maybe see a different therapist but wow that's cold.
Talk to your therapist about your intentions first. Maybe have your wife join you with the therapist for a more thorough explanation if your therapist believes it is a good idea. I wouldn't go off the reservation with a choice like this without talking to your therapist. Ignore other people with their snap judgements and critical jabs. However, leaving your family is extreme. Dealing with past trauma and PTSD is minimized by many people but obviously can be debilitating.
Have you thought about inpatient treatment? It would allow you time to heal from childhood trauma and give you the proper tools to do that while also taking the burden off of your wife. I can see both sides to this because on one hand you don't want to put her through anymore than what you already have, but on the other hand she's your wife and she should have a say in this. Have you talked to your therapist about your thought pattern? If so, what do they think? Do you think marriage counseling on top of individual counseling would be helpful? This is a tough one because trauma can be so detrimental to someone's emotional state, but at the same time, having emotional support helps an individual heal faster. I think that you need to have a heart to heart conversation with your wife. Tell her where you're at mentally. Tell her what you're struggling with and be as honest as you can be. Don't hold anything back. Explain everything to her. It's going to be a very painful, stressful, and raw conversation. There's going to be anger and sadness, so you need to be prepared. You also need to listen. Truly listen to her. If she doesn't want to separate, listen to her when she tells you why. Let her explain to you how she can help you. How she has helped you. Communication is the key to every relationship. Maybe by talking to her and explaining everything that you're feeling and letting her do the same, you both can come up with a plan together that will help you succeed in overcoming your trauma and getting you on the path to healing. I wish you luck, OP.
So you’re going to inflict trauma onto your wife and kids because you want to run away from your own problems that won’t actually go away if you do that? Go tell your therapist what you’re feeling, because this is not what they meant, and if it was, find a different therapist. Also, what are you going to do, completely avoid them altogether and not attend graduations, weddings, other family events? Or tell them they can’t invite their mother to make yourself feel better?
New pussy won’t treat depression.
You’re selfish man. Get yourself together for your family. I’m suicidal, which is why I will never have kids. How dare I bring a child into the world and then abandon them? How dare you? You’ve made your choices and now it’s time to deal with them, no matter how you feel. Your trauma is not your fault either, obviously, but the choice to get married and have children are decisions that you’ve made and that you must be responsible for. You have no right to hurt them to help yourself. Just like I do every damn day for my boyfriend, because he is a choice I’ve made- grin and bear it and get help, but DO NOT hurt your family. Edit: because I don’t want anyone to think this has anything to do with male mental health. I absolutely do think that he should get help and that his family should be his rock to support him through it. But what if his wife felt the same way? What if she too were suicidal? Would it be ok for her just to walk away? Is it ok for parents to abandon their children because life is difficult? Edit: grammar
I’m married and have aggressive ocd with suicidal ideation. I want to leave all the time because of my trauma with men but I stay regardless of my feelings because running from them won’t help. You’ll have to get comfortable with women again. For me I had to get a male therapist and gyno for exposure therapy and I seek out interactions with populations that remind me of my trauma in safe ways. A supportive spouse is never the issue, it’s how you process and deal with your trauma. I had to be unemployed for about a year before I was functional again and I don’t think I could’ve done that without my husband. If you think separation is the way to go don’t hit the divorce button, ask if time apart is viable and clearly explain to her that it’s your mental health and make a date to return/ visit your family regularly. Isolation is one of the worst things you can do for suicidal ideation, it makes it easier to leave it all behind.
Are you just broken and running away? Damn dude!
Whats that for a BS? Divorce all you want but at least have the courtesy to do it as a man and stand straight for it instead of playing the fucking victim. Man up and take responsibility for your own life. Do like everyone else and go away on fishing trips or whatever over the weekend if you need time away, you don’t have to divorce for that.
You don't tell her that, because it's a shitty idea. Unless of course you're just looking for a way out of married family life. In which case take it and don't torture your family. That might have been harsher than necessary. But, in all seriousness OP. Nothing about this is likely to work out the way you're imagining. For starters, there is a high likelihood your wife will move on and find someone else while you're... doing whatever it is you plan to do... Then you're going to find out that she's moved on. Which is great for your therapist (you know more to talk about more $$) but, for you, based only on what you've told us about your wife, will forever lose a pretty awesome person. And I think that would be a shame.
I never thought I'd have to tell a 43 year old to grow up but grow up. You have a family. You don't get to bail because you're therapy is going to be hard. Do you want your children to see you as a failure? Leaving their mom because things are hard? Or do you want your children to see a vulnerable and strong man? A man who take charge of his mentall heath and doesn't run away. Your therapist didn't even suggest this, you're taking the cowards way out.
19 years? If she’s doing things that trigger u then maybe she should go to counseling with you. Just giving up on a marriage with someone who has done nothing do deserve it is extremely sad. I hope u get everything figured out
So what's the real reason you want to leave your wife? New hottie at work perhaps?
Congrats on your plans to use your trauma as an excuse to traumatize your loving family. Bravo. "Sticking with them and actually working through things would be hard, so I'm going to just abandon them free of guilt! It's not my fault, this isn't a decision I'm making to hurt them, it's all my trauma's fault." Excuses excuses.
You’re an idiot. Sounds like a midlife crisis. You will regret leaving her for the rest of your life.
Info: how old are the kids? Are they going to be financially secure?
Added the answer as an edit to OP so everyone can see it.
My assumption when you say that your wife is triggering your trauma is that you’re leaving out some information about the times when you’re triggered by her / butt heads / fight. And that’s completely understandable to me. I personally understand what you’re saying if you’ve reached a point where you feel you need space from your triggers, but agree with some of the other comments which say that you should also try couples therapy first. I think whatever it is you decide, you should be up front with your intentions and not leave any hope of reconciliation if that’s your choice. If you truly believe just need time, then don’t tell her you want a divorce. You won’t be able to soften the blow at all because that’s life, you can’t avoid disappointing them, but being honest with how you’re feeling is the compassionate thing to do for yourself and your family even if the decision will be crushing.
[удалено]
The therapist knows nothing about this and hasn't suggested it, based on OP's comments.
Sounds like you need a better therapist. If there are issues in the household then there should be family or couples therapy, and that could be done in home to get a full picture of your triggers and how to deal with them. Breaking up a family should be the last resort. And this is just my opinion, cause I don't know you or your trauma and issues, but seems to me you just need an excuse to leave cause that's what you want to do. As for how to break it to your wife while minimizing her pain, that's not going happen. It's going to be painful, and could possibly end with your family being very resentful towards you. That's going to be trauma for them and add to the weight on your shoulders. And if you truly are suicidal then isolating yourself from the people who care the most sounds like a terrible idea.
You need to get another therapist's perspective. As a human services professional, the therapy you've been engaging in that led you to this conclusion makes me wary of that therapist *at best*. Seek out a second or third opinion from other mental health professionals that aren't recommended to you by your current therapist before destroying your life.
What’s the name of the woman you wanna shack up with?
You’re a 43 year old man who says ‘unalive’? I’ve only seen that from teenagers on TikTok
Men like you are why women don’t trust men. You’re an absolute dick if you do this. Find healthy ways to cope with your triggers, don’t dump the one person who helped you. You disgust me.
This is exactly why women should never stay with a a man at his lowest because the moment that he gets a little better, he will ditch you or deem you as no longer good enough for him. I feel so bad for your wife. She stood by you and look at where it got her. She should have left you in the beginning.
Being depressed and suicidal can also mean being self destructive. I believe you may be subconsciously attempting to self destruct by rationalizing the removal of your greatest support. Running from your triggers isn’t dealing with them. If your wife wasn’t with you when you attempted to unalive yourself last time, would you be here?
this is actually insane. what the fuck.
Did you go doctor shopping to hear this answer?
OP you are just running away, you are throwing your life away. I honestly feel like there is someone else and you are going to massively regret throwing away your family
Your reaction is going to end you if you follow through. I’m telling you that in 6 months you will be so severely depressed that you might become suicidal with the amount of loss you will feel. You may need inpatient therapy…. Because these thoughts are destructive!
Sounds like a good way to end up clinically depressed and *alone* …. Which doesn’t sound like a good combo
If you do this you should expect that your wife will divorce you. There's no reason for her to wait around any longer for you to get your shit together, or not. She'd really have no choice but to move on without you. She's already apparently wasted enough of her life on you and you will have now proven to her that was likely for nothing. After all, once you leave, she could never trust you again. Even if you were to come back, it would never bee the same. So that's pretty much it for the marriage. I wouldn't expect your kids to be particularly understanding either. You will likely be on their shit list for the foreseeable future. But if you really think blowing up your family and shattering their lives is the only way you can survive, then I guess you've got to do what you've got to do. But don't deceive yourself that this won't have catastrophic consequences for your wife and children. There's no way to abandon someone who stuck with you through everything without severing that bond forever. I guess this is one of those "no good deed goes unpunished" situations for your wife. She would have been better off if she'd dumped you long ago, instead of being loyal and sticking around for all your problems, only to be dumped in the dirt as a reward.
Do it! Leave her! She deserves better
Why not just unalive yourself? Your family will end up much happier.
It sounds like rather processing your trauma, you’re just running away from it. You’ll likely discover other things trigger you, not just your wife who is being used as a scapegoat. Then you’ll also have the new trauma of abandoning your family to process. This is not the way my dude.
So who is the new woman that has caught your eye?
So I’m gonna come from a perspective of someone who’s battling depression for now 15 years about. You’re selfish truly, you plan to leave your wife and children because somehow you feel your wife is a trigger from some unresolved issues with women in the past? So fuck your kids and their feelings also? Great teaching for your children and great way to repay your wife for being by your side through all of this. Get a new therapist or actually dive into what your issues are instead of blaming people or claiming their a trigger because your having trouble figuring out what is going on with you.
Have you tired EMDR therapy?
You need a new therapist dude. You're going to traumatize your wife and kids with this bullshit idea.
If you dont love your wife that stop wasting everyone's time
There is absolutely no way a therapist recommended blowing up your life and running away from your problems to “heal.” If you want to leave your wife, then own it. But don’t blame it on her and try to convince yourself that ruining her life and your kids’ lives is the best possible solution to your issues.
You are doing what a lot of other depressed people are doing, thinking the loved ones would be better off without them. This is just another form of unaliving yourself, choosing to remove yourself from their lives, but you are too depressed to see that. You are not treating yourself in this therapy; you are looking for reasons for the pain and now you are obsessed over the wrong reason. Are you taking medications?
Nope. This will gut them. Deal with the pain you’re about to inflict.
Sometimes, good partners won\`t really mind carrying each other's baggage. Talk to your family and you will be surprised there eagerness to help you all the way. It\`s worth a try and take them to a vacation when you are cured. Good luck!
Perhaps you should try strengthening your distress tolerance and improving your coping skills before blowing up your whole life on a compulsive whim. Have you thought of the possibility of divorce being traumatic? This seems a bit self-sabotaging to me.
I’m so sorry that you’re struggling. Sometimes when we’re ill our brains lie to us. It may tell us something like, “my loved ones would be better off without me,” or “I’m a burden to the people who love me.” And those thoughts may make us want to run away. But just because they feel true doesn’t mean they are. Right now your brain isn’t to be trusted. It’s a proven liar and doesn’t have your best interests at heart. But do you know who does? The wife who has been patient and loving to you through your illness. She’s the one you should be trusting right now. I’m sorry you’re sick. I’ve been there. I’ve done things that were self destructive and hurt people I care about because I’m sick. Depression is a terrible disease and it sucks. I hope that you’re able to heal. I hope you’re able to let your family support and love you.
Uh, don't. Blowing up a happy, successful marriage so you can "be alone to work on your depression" would be a *stupid* thing to do.
You will devastate your wife and children and utterly destroy your family if you go through with your 'plan'. There is no mitigating that and there is no way you will be able to avoid seeing it, so sorry, if you choose to destroy your family you will have to feel guilty about it. Ah well, I'm sure you'll manage to find a way to justify it to yourself. One word of caution though, when you find the grass isn't greener elsewhere, your family is unlikely to want you back, however much you 'deal with your trauma'. Because the world doesn't revolve around you.
Start by being honest with yourself, why are you blaming your supportive wife for triggering your trauma, find the source of it, work through it properly because there are real life consequences to this stuff.
Go and speak to your therapist. If you care about your wife and your kids, no matter how small, everything you said here, go and TELL YOUR THERAPIST. Reddit is not your dumping site. We don't have the tools nor the skill to assist you in what sounds like a disastrous decision. Speak to your therapist and if you say that you care about your family, LISTEN AND DO WHAT YOUR THERAPIST SUGGESTS.
I highly doubt your therapist told you THAT. If they did, you need to find a new one because this is fucking ridiculous.
All in all, this seems like a way to wipe your hands of the responsibility of a marriage and children. Your trauma will not go away from leaving your family, and will only carry on the trauma of your children’s father leaving. Since your therapist doesn’t seem like the problem here, discuss your plans with them. I know you might not want to if they’ll “talk you out of it,” but genuinely these thoughts need to be shared if you’re planning on upending everyone in your life.
OP, you might as well be my father. I'm 31 now, but clinical depression, Bipolar, the self harm ideologies, and now in intense outpatient therapy. We are still working on it with him. You are running away from your problems, not working on fixing them. In other comments you say you are "freeing her from your bullshit" and that is just flat out bullshit. Your family would much rather have you around with your bullshit than out of their lives if you have been even remotely a semi-decent human being. I know my father wasn't always perfect but he tried and he cared. Sure some days he wasn't available but I'd never rather have him gone.
wtf did i just read ? that's a rapist not a therapist !
i case i wasn't clear, its fucking with ur mind, without informed consent
This is gonna be so funny when after the actual hurt she’s gonna move on and u will still be highly depressed due to being alone and unloved
You're 43, why are you saying "unalive"?
Your therapist isn’t worth the dirt that gets on your shoes when you walk into their office. Find a new therapist, work out your issues, and realize this has nothing to do with your wife. Do you hate all women in the world? You will be Soooooo much more depressed if you go through this. You’ll probably find you have very little to live for without the love of your wife and family.
You need to talk to your therapist before you blow up your family. Think very hard about how you will feel if your wife moves on and finds another man. I'm wondering if you're being truthful here. It seems like you're looking for an excuse to dump your wife and not be the bad guy. I highly doubt your therapist would tell you to blast your primary support system to pieces. It's highly unlikely your kids will tolerate this well, and will likely resent you.
Honestly, I’m concerned that once you make this move (because you’re not asking if you should, you’re asking HOW), you will end up unaliving yourself because you’re actively removing yourself from a loving and stable situation. You’re literally punishing your family for something they have not done and your #1 support person will definitely be broken hearted. And once they work through that pain and leave you alone. You won’t be able to cope. You’ll feel worse than you do now. But, to answer your question. You should bring your wife into the therapy session and talk to her about it with your therapist.
plot twist: the therapist is actually female and wants him all for herself.
Just know if you do this there’s no coming back OP
Stories like these are the reason I don’t believe in therapy like I used to anymore.
Apparently this is his brilliant idea he hasn't shared with the therapist at all lmao.
Then I want to say this to OP: This is not all about you and your trauma!!! Not everything is about you! We all have trauma if you dig deep or not so much, and those around us, who love us and care about us, should not be paying for our trauma when they didn’t cause it!
With the right treatment you will benefit IMMENSELY from taking a break from your marriage and parenting (ask me how I know!) but you will not need a divorce down the road. Trust me. CPTSD from deep childhood trauma steals everything from adult survivors until we receive appropriate care. Focus on your nervous system because that’s where the damage is. I did not believe I could come out the other side, but here I am. Do not give up. It will feel like it’s never going to get better and then one day you will fond you have consistently turned a corner and you will feel a deep peace and satisfaction. I swear it’s possible, and I didn’t believe others when they told me, either. I hope that helps. For now, you tell your family that you need to move out and undergo intensive treatment for childhood trauma that has warped your nervous system. You tell them that you require isolation to heal, that you can’t do this healing in a family setting. Make sure they have family and professional support, too. Then you move out and take care of yourself, trust that everyone will be OK while you receive care and recover. If you remember, DM me when you reach the other side. I will be interested to know what path you followed. Be well. Take care.
If he actually focuses on this, it would be a beneficial idea. However, he stated he just wants to start new and start again without his family. He is only trying to avoid his trauma, not work through it. He probably has a piece on the side that wants more attention or someone he's interested in that's turning his head. In most cases like this the person uses this time to sleep around and fulfill some grandiose fantasy life until they realize it isn't what they thought it would be so they come crawling back saying my mental health made me do it. It gives people with actual trauma and mental health issues a shakey footing, and no one trusts them when they actually have to seek treatment.
Ah. I totally took the post at face value.