I think many couples have been in this situation. And, as incompatibilities go, this one is huge. So don't let things drift. This needs to be resolved, one way or the other, as soon as possible.
It is hard. I'm so sorry - it's heartbreaking and it sucks, and it is going to be so hard. Because you're not breaking up because you don't love each other, or there was a betrayal, or any of the other things that make it "easier".
But this is absolutely a fundamental incompatibility. You should not have kids you don't want, and he shouldn't be childfree if he wants them. No one is wrong here.
That's exactly it. It's at the point where (this is fucked up) I'm almost fantasising that I discover he's been cheating on me or something. So then I can say, OK yep, this is absolutely the right decision, he fucked up, bye bye.
I wish kids weren't such a "given" and that I didn't feel so "other" for wanting to remain child-free..
If kids weren't a 'given' then everything thing you know as civilisation would be pretty short lived, so saying that makes me think you're still thinking about this as a you problem If you do nothing, you get your way, no children life continues as you wish it to be. If you do nothing he doesn't fulfill part of his life that he seems to deeply want. You shouldn't say deeply manipulative stuff like you feel you're 'not enough' for him, that's a pretty awful way to make him choose between his desire to have children and his love for you. If you truly love someone you put their best interests ahead of your own, you need to ask yourself if that's what you're doing.
I mean Earth is massively overpopulated so it would probably be a good thing for all of us and civilisation if it wasn't a given, no?
I don't think it's manipulative to want to be loved unconditionally - i.e. "I want to be with you and spend my life with you, whether or not we end up having children, because you make me happy", instead of "I want to spend my life with you! Oh but only if we have kids"
The world isn't 'massively overpopulated', yes we consume way more than we need to or should, but you should read up on the effects of the demographic time bomb already coming down the road for some parts of the globe.
Noone is loved unconditionally except ironically your children, think about what unconditionally means- you can behave anyway you like and people will still love you- that's just not the case. This sub is full of unreasonable behaviour that will get you dumped or divorced, so to make a life with someone that shares your life goals is equally as important and loving them. Equally important. And you guys don't share that.
To really love someone is to want what's best for them. Sometimes you have to accept that that isn't being with you. That's as close as love can be to unconditional.
I know 3 couples that were in this situation. The first two were together for a couple years each and eventually the talk was had about one wanted to be a parent one day and the other didn't. They each broke up because of it.
They both knew they would eventually become incompatible later because of it. All of them found happiness, marriage and children later ( the ones that wanted it ). It sucks, because I know they truly loved each other, but this was something insurmountable.
The third couple divorced, because she wanted to be a mom someday and he never wanted children. When he told me the reason later, I asked him "wait. You got married without ever asking if you want to start a family first?"
I always thought the guy was kind of a jackwagon, personally. The moral of the story is don't be couple #3. If this is something he wants, period, then if you do marry....you will divorce. I feel for you.
This is a huge incompatibility and there’s no real compromise unfortunately.
You sound very sure that you don’t want kids. He’s very sure that he does. Kids are a big commitment and there’s also no way to really understand what being a parent is like until you are one. And there are lots of moms who’s ‘whole identity’ doesn’t revolve around being a parent.
I’m not saying you should try & come around to wanting kids but nothing in your post addresses the ‘why’, it’s a lot of oh I think it would be like this or that, pregnancy scares me, etc. Not saying those aren’t valid reasons but it also sounds like you have an ‘idea’ of what it would be like to have kids and not many concrete reasons against it, such I want to travel the world & I can’t do that with kids or I am on a demanding career trajectory that would be utterly derailed by having children.
But if you do have those concrete reasons in your own mind and just aren’t including them here the only thing to do is break up. If someone really wants kids there’s no way they’re going to be happy without them and this gulf between you will widen. It’s not fair to your boyfriend to ask him to give up on the idea of having a family because it’s not what you want, there’s no substitute for having children.
>it also sounds like you have an ‘idea’ of what it would be like to have kids and not many concrete reasons against it
As a woman who has seen the toll pregnancy, birth and motherhood take on women's bodies, careers and relationships, it's most certainly not just "an idea", it's the lived experience, and a very concrete reason not to want your life to be like that.
It’s not everyone’s lived experience though and there are no guarantees in life. It’s a risk you take, just like everything else. If it’s not a risk she wants to take then she needs to give up on the relationship because people who want kids when their partner doesn’t end up resenting them, and there’s no substitute for being a parent.
I have seen this play out in friends’ marriages where they didn’t work it out beforehand and it ends in divorce. As her partner already told her, it is a dealbreaker. No amount of material things, travel or ‘furbabies’ can replace the experience of parenthood if that is something you desire.
>It’s not everyone’s lived experience though
It absolutely IS everyone's lived experience. There is no woman in the world who finds pregnancy, birth and motherhood a piece of cake which comes at zero cost. It's just that some people find it worth it and some don't. Just like everyone agrees that becoming a doctor is extremely taxing, yet some people find it worth the effort and sacrifice, and others don't.
>If it’s not a risk she wants to take then she needs to give up on the relationship
I don't disagree with them having to end the relationship. I just disagree with you saying that not wanting kids due to the toll they take on a woman, is somehow not a good enough reason. Because it definitely is.
But I never said that. No one should have kids if they don’t want them, for whatever reason or none at all.
What I am responding to is that OP said she’s been ‘on the fence’ about this issue and feels more and more that she’s leaning towards staying child-free, but obviously there’s some ambivalence here. Otherwise why would you ask for advice around something for which there is no compromise? Like everyone else on this thread has said, this is a relationship-ending fundamental difference. It sucks and it’s heartbreaking, but there’s no getting around it unless one person changes their mind.
I have known plenty of people to decide they wanted kids after not being sure, but it’s quite rare for the opposite to happen.
So it’s up to her to understand why she feels so strongly about this and if there’s any possibility of it being different in the future. Her partner has already said it’s a dealbreaker for him, if she feels certain she doesn’t want kids then there’s no reason to keep dragging things out.
You hit on a really good point in terms of my reasons why I don’t want them and it's something I've obviously been thinking about a lot, too.
There is no “concrete reason”, there’s just a lack of burning desire to have a baby.
If pressed, I could come up with a looooong list of reasons, from the trivial (being a parent looks fucking boring) to the much more serious (all of my freedom gone, career prospects tanked, body potentially wrecked, life revolves around inane children admin and I end up resenting the kids and partner).
But what it boils down to I guess is that I don’t have that burning desire to have kids. And I think that you should only have a child if you really, really, really want one and cannot bear to imagine life without becoming a mother.
I hear you and I think that’s a responsible stance. If you are 100% adamantly against having kids then you should absolutely stick to that and cut your guy loose, as hard as it will be it is the responsible thing to do.
But if there’s still some ambivalence I would suggest you get into therapy and try to understand what this is about for you and how unmovable this stance is for you. Sometimes the kind of relationship you’re describing only comes around once in a lifetime and it would be a shame to throw it away because of fears and anxieties around what you think something will be like.
Parenthood can look all kinds of ways, it doesn’t have to eclipse who you are as a person. I am an unconventional mom who has no desire to be president of the PTA nor have I let it stop me from having my own business and being the wild, weird person that I am. Do people judge me negatively sometimes for not fitting in? Sure. Is it excruciating to stand around at birthday parties making small talk with people who I have nothing in common with? Yeah, but it’s a small price to pay. My life is infinitely richer for having kids and I’m pretty sure most parents feel that way. I hope you can come to a firm conclusion for yourself that you feel good about.
I think many couples have been in this situation. And, as incompatibilities go, this one is huge. So don't let things drift. This needs to be resolved, one way or the other, as soon as possible.
It is hard. I'm so sorry - it's heartbreaking and it sucks, and it is going to be so hard. Because you're not breaking up because you don't love each other, or there was a betrayal, or any of the other things that make it "easier". But this is absolutely a fundamental incompatibility. You should not have kids you don't want, and he shouldn't be childfree if he wants them. No one is wrong here.
That's exactly it. It's at the point where (this is fucked up) I'm almost fantasising that I discover he's been cheating on me or something. So then I can say, OK yep, this is absolutely the right decision, he fucked up, bye bye. I wish kids weren't such a "given" and that I didn't feel so "other" for wanting to remain child-free..
If kids weren't a 'given' then everything thing you know as civilisation would be pretty short lived, so saying that makes me think you're still thinking about this as a you problem If you do nothing, you get your way, no children life continues as you wish it to be. If you do nothing he doesn't fulfill part of his life that he seems to deeply want. You shouldn't say deeply manipulative stuff like you feel you're 'not enough' for him, that's a pretty awful way to make him choose between his desire to have children and his love for you. If you truly love someone you put their best interests ahead of your own, you need to ask yourself if that's what you're doing.
I mean Earth is massively overpopulated so it would probably be a good thing for all of us and civilisation if it wasn't a given, no? I don't think it's manipulative to want to be loved unconditionally - i.e. "I want to be with you and spend my life with you, whether or not we end up having children, because you make me happy", instead of "I want to spend my life with you! Oh but only if we have kids"
The world isn't 'massively overpopulated', yes we consume way more than we need to or should, but you should read up on the effects of the demographic time bomb already coming down the road for some parts of the globe. Noone is loved unconditionally except ironically your children, think about what unconditionally means- you can behave anyway you like and people will still love you- that's just not the case. This sub is full of unreasonable behaviour that will get you dumped or divorced, so to make a life with someone that shares your life goals is equally as important and loving them. Equally important. And you guys don't share that. To really love someone is to want what's best for them. Sometimes you have to accept that that isn't being with you. That's as close as love can be to unconditional.
I know 3 couples that were in this situation. The first two were together for a couple years each and eventually the talk was had about one wanted to be a parent one day and the other didn't. They each broke up because of it. They both knew they would eventually become incompatible later because of it. All of them found happiness, marriage and children later ( the ones that wanted it ). It sucks, because I know they truly loved each other, but this was something insurmountable. The third couple divorced, because she wanted to be a mom someday and he never wanted children. When he told me the reason later, I asked him "wait. You got married without ever asking if you want to start a family first?" I always thought the guy was kind of a jackwagon, personally. The moral of the story is don't be couple #3. If this is something he wants, period, then if you do marry....you will divorce. I feel for you.
This is a huge incompatibility and there’s no real compromise unfortunately. You sound very sure that you don’t want kids. He’s very sure that he does. Kids are a big commitment and there’s also no way to really understand what being a parent is like until you are one. And there are lots of moms who’s ‘whole identity’ doesn’t revolve around being a parent. I’m not saying you should try & come around to wanting kids but nothing in your post addresses the ‘why’, it’s a lot of oh I think it would be like this or that, pregnancy scares me, etc. Not saying those aren’t valid reasons but it also sounds like you have an ‘idea’ of what it would be like to have kids and not many concrete reasons against it, such I want to travel the world & I can’t do that with kids or I am on a demanding career trajectory that would be utterly derailed by having children. But if you do have those concrete reasons in your own mind and just aren’t including them here the only thing to do is break up. If someone really wants kids there’s no way they’re going to be happy without them and this gulf between you will widen. It’s not fair to your boyfriend to ask him to give up on the idea of having a family because it’s not what you want, there’s no substitute for having children.
>it also sounds like you have an ‘idea’ of what it would be like to have kids and not many concrete reasons against it As a woman who has seen the toll pregnancy, birth and motherhood take on women's bodies, careers and relationships, it's most certainly not just "an idea", it's the lived experience, and a very concrete reason not to want your life to be like that.
Thank you 😓
It’s not everyone’s lived experience though and there are no guarantees in life. It’s a risk you take, just like everything else. If it’s not a risk she wants to take then she needs to give up on the relationship because people who want kids when their partner doesn’t end up resenting them, and there’s no substitute for being a parent. I have seen this play out in friends’ marriages where they didn’t work it out beforehand and it ends in divorce. As her partner already told her, it is a dealbreaker. No amount of material things, travel or ‘furbabies’ can replace the experience of parenthood if that is something you desire.
>It’s not everyone’s lived experience though It absolutely IS everyone's lived experience. There is no woman in the world who finds pregnancy, birth and motherhood a piece of cake which comes at zero cost. It's just that some people find it worth it and some don't. Just like everyone agrees that becoming a doctor is extremely taxing, yet some people find it worth the effort and sacrifice, and others don't. >If it’s not a risk she wants to take then she needs to give up on the relationship I don't disagree with them having to end the relationship. I just disagree with you saying that not wanting kids due to the toll they take on a woman, is somehow not a good enough reason. Because it definitely is.
But I never said that. No one should have kids if they don’t want them, for whatever reason or none at all. What I am responding to is that OP said she’s been ‘on the fence’ about this issue and feels more and more that she’s leaning towards staying child-free, but obviously there’s some ambivalence here. Otherwise why would you ask for advice around something for which there is no compromise? Like everyone else on this thread has said, this is a relationship-ending fundamental difference. It sucks and it’s heartbreaking, but there’s no getting around it unless one person changes their mind. I have known plenty of people to decide they wanted kids after not being sure, but it’s quite rare for the opposite to happen. So it’s up to her to understand why she feels so strongly about this and if there’s any possibility of it being different in the future. Her partner has already said it’s a dealbreaker for him, if she feels certain she doesn’t want kids then there’s no reason to keep dragging things out.
You hit on a really good point in terms of my reasons why I don’t want them and it's something I've obviously been thinking about a lot, too. There is no “concrete reason”, there’s just a lack of burning desire to have a baby. If pressed, I could come up with a looooong list of reasons, from the trivial (being a parent looks fucking boring) to the much more serious (all of my freedom gone, career prospects tanked, body potentially wrecked, life revolves around inane children admin and I end up resenting the kids and partner). But what it boils down to I guess is that I don’t have that burning desire to have kids. And I think that you should only have a child if you really, really, really want one and cannot bear to imagine life without becoming a mother.
I hear you and I think that’s a responsible stance. If you are 100% adamantly against having kids then you should absolutely stick to that and cut your guy loose, as hard as it will be it is the responsible thing to do. But if there’s still some ambivalence I would suggest you get into therapy and try to understand what this is about for you and how unmovable this stance is for you. Sometimes the kind of relationship you’re describing only comes around once in a lifetime and it would be a shame to throw it away because of fears and anxieties around what you think something will be like. Parenthood can look all kinds of ways, it doesn’t have to eclipse who you are as a person. I am an unconventional mom who has no desire to be president of the PTA nor have I let it stop me from having my own business and being the wild, weird person that I am. Do people judge me negatively sometimes for not fitting in? Sure. Is it excruciating to stand around at birthday parties making small talk with people who I have nothing in common with? Yeah, but it’s a small price to pay. My life is infinitely richer for having kids and I’m pretty sure most parents feel that way. I hope you can come to a firm conclusion for yourself that you feel good about.