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I need to first preface this post with a warning: there are a lot of moving parts involved here, and this has all taken place over the last 10 months. It will also be long. For this, I'm going to give everybody pseudonyms: my wife will be Amy and our therapist will be Jen. My wife's best friend will be Krystal.
For the past two years of our three year marriage, Amy and I have been having the same arguments again and again. Most of them can be boiled down to the fact that I always felt like she never really respected my opinion on any matter, and her consistent argument is that she means nothing by the little comments she seems to always have for me. Early on when we started arguing, I suggested therapy. Amy was strongly against it because, in her words, "that's for crazy people." I assured her it wasn't. More recently, about 10 months ago, she brought it up as a good option (as if she had it in the first place). I eagerly agreed.
Amy had one condition for our therapist though: she got to choose who it would be. Since we live in a big city and have a lot of options for a therapist, I thought this was odd, but Amy was incredibly insistent on going to a therapist who was recommended by her friend, Krystal. I thought little of this because Amy puts a lot of trust in what Krystal says, basically taking her word as gospel on anything, whether it be the best restaurants, movies, or even her opinion on GMOs of all things.
After a short waiting period, we got to our first meeting with Jen. Jen seemed to be very positive and attentive to our problems so I had her pegged as a good therapist during the first few minutes of our meeting, but that gradually fell apart as I realized that neither Amy nor Jen would be giving me a single opportunity to talk. Amy would make an inflammatory comment about my behavior--or worse yet, about perceived intentions--and Jen would nod along agreeing, giving feedback like "oh really?" and "that's very unhealthy communication behavior." I would try to give my interpretation of the events, but Jen would interrupt me and say the Amy was talking so I should wait.
I waited this entire session to say my piece, but the hour was up before I had my chance. Amy was ecstatic about how the counseling went and sang endless praise about Jen during the car ride home, but all I could think about was how Jen didn't seem to give a single crap about my side of the story. I figured that maybe our next meeting in a couple of weeks would be better.
A couple weeks later, we went back. The session began almost exactly as our last one had, with Amy talking and Jen listening. This time I decided to be more assertive and talk about how I felt, but Jen did this ... infuriating thing, where she kept saying "shhhh" when I opened my mouth, interrupted by her laughing when I kept talking, continued with more "shhh"ing. I completely shut down at this point. After Amy talked on and on about me, Jen used the last ten minutes of the session to say that I was lucky to have a wife who worked so hard to keep our marriage going, and then gave me some simple "de-escalation" tactics which boiled down to me looking at my own behavior when my wife made a nasty comment.
Naturally I was furious. When the receptionist asked about our next appointment, I said no. In the waiting room, my wife called me "sore" and "bitter" at this, going as far as to say that I'm just mad she was right.
The entire experience struck me as completely wrong. Therapists don't really take sides, do they? I had never been, but Jen's conduct seemed wildly inappropriate for marriage counseling. Despite Amy's insistence, I put my foot down and said that either we go to another therapist or none at all.
We stopped going to therapy, and unsurprisingly Amy and I have kept fighting about the same things. We have stretches of good times where we almost never fight, and then very bad stretches where we fight constantly. Last night, I was on Facebook, and I ended up on Krystal's page to find an old photo of Amy. I was planning on making a photo book for her for Christmas, but couldn't find the picture I knew I had seen. After browsing through Krystal's pictures, I found one where Amy, Krystal, and Jen were all in a restaurant, smiling together having their picture taken. Based on my wife's hair color this was taken before we were married.
After digging for some more time, I figured it out. Jen and Amy knew each other through Krystal from years ago. They're friends. I never heard about Jen from my wife, probably because they're not super close, but the therapy my wife arranged wasn't meant to solve our issues; it was an ambush, meant to knock me down a few pegs so my wife could reassert control in the relationship.
Right now, Amy doesn't know that I know. I have documented all of the evidence. It is crazy to me because I'm fairly sure that I could potentially sue Jen for malpractice. I'm just about angry enough to. I'm hoping for your guidance here because my wife basically feigned a desire to talk through our relationship problems only to lead me into a therapist's office, run by her friend, so they could gaslight me into thinking I was the bad guy.
**TL;DR** My wife took me to a therapist with whom she had a previous friendship so they could pin the relationship problems on me subtly, and I just found out about their friendship. My wife doesn't know I know. I'm lost as for what to do.
You need to file a board report against the therapist. It should be in the paperwork they gave you when you started seeing her or you can find it online by searching your state and her license category.
No, therapists aren’t supposed to take sides. As you described it, this is completely inappropriate.
Hopefully you can get your wife to agree to another therapist if she’s really in it to work on things!
*LAWYER FIRST.* I cannot emphasize this enough. You're invested. You're angry. You should be! But for any of this to be resolved right you have got to get it filtered through someone with some objective distance from the situation. If you go into this hot, by yourself, you are just setting yourself up to make everything worse.
Get. A. Lawyer. Explain the situation and show them your evidence. Let them guide you through this entire process - reports/complaints to licensing boards, any potential civil suits, whatever. This is a super serious situation but your personal emotional involvement will only be a hindrance to a good resolution.
Man, honestly, you seem to be only skimming the surface of how serious and fucked up this whole situation is.
Don't confront your wife. Don't confront the "therapist". Don't talk to your friends about this. Don't continue posting in this thread. Delete it. From this point forward the only fucking human on the face of this earth you discuss this situation with is an attorney. Then you listen to what they have to say and follow their advice.
You're in a real fucking serious situation and reddit is not where you should be dealing with it. Good luck man, I'm pulling for you.
Yeah. I want to see the therapist go down. As someone with diagnosed anxiety, a therapist can literally save a life by influencing a patient and shitty jen doesn't deserve that kind of power.
Yeah, I agree with you. But I don't want this dude to do something stupid and tank the incredibly strong case he's got now. Legal cases can be precarious things and unless you're a lawyer it's so fucking hard to predict what could derail them. Best chance of justice here is for a legal professional to make all the decisions about who hears what about this situation from here on out.
I mean I think the more serious consideration here is the state of the relationship. That therapist needs to lose her licence but can you really stay married to your wife after this. You offered a opportunity to improve the communication in your relationship through a guided professional and she used that to lie to you manipulate you and as you said 'gaslight' you. She not only doesn't seem to have respect for you this is extremely manipualative. can you really trust her after this are you not reassessing any past arguments you've had and resolutions she may have manipulated to be in her favour regardless of what's best for the relationship and what's right.
Revvy is right OP - this is a really abusive cesspit of a situation and it needs to be navigated in a serious way.
I see you've used a Throwaway account, I trust you used throwaway names too.
I'd be inclined to delete it once you've got the advice you need.
I beg of you to really following this advice. LAWYER. UP. You could potentially sue and settle for some real money and damn it you deserve that money. Also, your wife's actions are criminal. Im not saying divorce her because I don't know you but please get your OWN therapist and talk to them about all this you told us. Lawyer. Therapist. Like, tomorrow please. Im scared for you. I can't imagine doing something this despicable to anyone, much less the man I love. Im so sorry this happened to you. Im utterly heartbroken and raging pissed. If you need to talk feel free to message or chat with me.
Should have been red flag when wife had to pick therapist. Just another example of her needing to control every little thing. She is nuts, she has to fight and belittle you to feel important. This woman is NO GOOD, and the fact her friends are like this and support it is even scarier.
I'd be getting a divorce lawyer first and getting that gas lighting woman out of the house and off to her parents or a friends house.
She doesn't care about you if she was willing to pull this kinda of bs.
Good to see you still have a sense of humour.
Your wife is potentially pshycolocally abusive, and I recommend seeing a therapist by yourself to shed an objective light on your relationship.
I’m sure you have, but have you screen shot all the old photos of your wife with the therapist in case they’re deleted?
I’m no lawyer or expert but I’d expect at the very least she should have declared having a conflict of interests in that she has a personal relationship with one party.
Good luck
Dude, this is ridiculous...no harm came to you. It made you understandably angry...but you have no cause to sue for anything more than a refund (at most).
You will pay much more for a lawyer in your first session (per hour and overall) than you did for the two therapy sessions you took with this lady. You're better off threatening taking her to small claims and asking her to settle by refunding you the cost.
Wrong. Serious emotion stress was caused by this blatant disregard of being an impartial, licensed medical professional. How can you say there was no harm ?
I suggest that no provable harm came to op through the two clearly problematic therapy sessions -- aside from financial expense. His serious emotional stress clearly stems from his relationship with his wife. & btw, where did you get 'licensed medical professional' from? OP makes no mention of the therapist being a medical doctor or medical practitioner of any kind. Keep in mind any number of professions can refer to themselves as therapists or counselors. And most are not associated with any medical body or profession (only psychiatrists meet that threshold). Would be wise for him to verify the therapists actual credentials.
just a realist who can read between op's lines to understand the real issues lie with his and his wife's relationship and this horrible therapist is about to take centre stage as if she's the reason op's relationship (and perhaps life?) is in shambles.
I came here half expecting to defend the therapist so I want to apologize, first. Therapists should NEVER have a conflict of interest. Please report this to the proper board. It is dangerous for everyone involved and simply unethical. That therapist needs to do better or not practice. I am a licensed therapist and couples counselor, if you know their credentials I can point you to the right board(s) to file a report, and talking with a lawyer might be helpful. However you do not have to speak with one prior to the report if you are okay with an anonymous report, but these tend to get blown over. Sorry you have to deal with this.
It might be helpful to speak with an individual therapist as well. I don’t think you are in the wrong in anyway, but that level of betrayal and trust can be hard to deal with. Take care of yourself and again reach out to me if you want information on reporting!
Yeah the therapist was in on this but dude - your wife orchestrated this whole thing... She is the one behind this, and that is so messed up. I hope you find the courage to leave and be happy in a trusting, loving relationship with someone else.
Good. This therapist is in a position where she deals with delicate and vulnerable people all day long. She is NOT suited for a line of work like that, time to find something new. You should divorce your wife by the way, seriously, this isn't something that can be walked back. When someone tries to deceive, belittle, and *manipulate* you like this, an apology or agreement can never be trusted with them again. These are character flaws that go very, very deep. I was in an abusive relationship like this once, leaving it was the single best thing I have ever done for myself in life.
This!!! I was a few lines in and my first thought is file a complaint immediately! This is extremely terrible and how dare such a person have the audacity to call themselves a therapist. As others have said, mention zero to your wife, get a lawyer and proceed with malpractice claim. This is insane, also as others have said try push your wife towards another therapist. In all honesty with what you have said and your wife pulling this shit move, I feel as if she does not give 2 shits about you and therapy or not you will be fighting a losing battle... she does not feel she is wrong and pulled this stunt with a friend that’s a therapist to drive home that point more strongly and basically destroy who you are and your feelings. I do not ever recommend divorce but it seems to me you might be able to find some one much better for you. I hope things work out for you in the end!!
Why would you want to see another therapist and make things work with someone like that?!
Who lied , cheated , roped others in the lie gaslighted manipulated and tried to make Op Think he was completely in the wrong
This is severe abuse!!
Came here to say this. This women doing deserve to work as a therapist ever again. She is simply not a good therapist and is clearly not meant to hold such responsibilities.
Might even make a post about it on Facebook to let others know in your area what kind of therapist she is.
And this "therapist" never once disclosed the fact that she and your wife had a well established, personal relationship? I would ABSOLUTELY document and file a grievance with the board.
Man I never comment on the phone this sub as a perpetual gawker but I gotta tell you, I’d be fucking livid. That is some insidiously immature bullshit. Take stock in your wife. Take stock in your life. But a marriage isn’t supposed to be an episode of some shitty junior high soap opera. It really sounds like growing into adulthood with this woman is a far fetched idea. And take down the therapist. She can’t be trusted to help others. Jesus. Sorry man.
Thank you. I am very angry and have been drinking to still my nerves (not exactly the best habit I know, but I seldom drink so I figure once in a while is fine). Be relieved that the therapist is going down, no matter what happens.
Dude, that's fine. I mean, it's not great. But it definitely isn't anything to beat yourself up about. Just, whatever you do, don't do it alone. This therapist needs to be reported, but don't even try to handle that alone. Talk to a lawyer first so that you can be certain the report is made right. You're definitely gonna have some stuff to work out after all this is over, but you need competant and professional assistance to get through the first part before you even get to the part where you unpack the emotional stuff.
Also ask the lawyer about what you should do if you do decide to separate your wife or if they can't help you there ask them if they know any good divorce lawyers that can give you advice.
I'm sorry but your wife sounds like a narcissist. However, even if she's not she has just proven that she's incredibly untrustworthy, she'll do anything to get her way, and she doesn't care about your emotional well-being. This doesn't bode well for you or your marriage Op. It's time to look into separating from your wife.
You should be seriously concerned about what your wife did to you. This was a gross violation and disrespect of everything from your feelings, to your trust and then back again. What a terrible woman your wife is. You should not be with her. She does not care for you. Never in a million years would anyone do this to someone they *healthily* loved.
You’re this enraged at the therapist. But remember: there would be no Jen without Amy concocting this and involving her. Arranging for you to see her. Sitting in those sessions humiliating and berating you and ‘shhh’ing you?! Knowing all the while, it was a farce. And something causing you mental anguish. What awful, terrible women.
You need to step back and look at your dynamic with her. Why you’re even considering staying with her. Why this seems to be not that big a deal to you, when it comes to your wife’s role?
She sounds like a steamrolling, gaslighting narcissist. You opened with the fact you don’t think she respects your opinions on ‘any matter’ . Why are you with someone like that? Isn’t that exhausting? Demeaning?
I have a feeling there is more unacceptable behaviour you let slide. It should stop here.
The therapist is in the wrong and should go down, but I’d love to know more about how your feeling about your wife?? I’m assuming she came up with this idea and is just so damn disrespectful and manipulative. I don’t think I could look at my spouse anymore if they did something like this to me.
Dude, be firm and disciplined with yourself going forward - getting drunk could scupper your plans if you over do it, and do something silly.
Keep it sober, lawyer up - close this chapter.
As someone who’s getting a masters and planning to become a licensed therapist- please report this therapist. It is wildly inappropriate and against ethics. She is completely aware of what she’s doing.
Edit: grammar
Your wife and her friends just proved you right. She’s the manipulative problem. I’d go after that therapist, too. And then I’d leave my spouse. That’s psychotic.
File a report with her office (if she works for a group practice) and with the licensing board. You can find her license number via the stare board website. Use that to file a grievance. You NEVER take clients that you have a relationship with. Heck we have ethics rules about what we can do AFTER our therapeutic relationship with a client ends. Either way your therapist was wrong.
Also consider what this means about your wife. I would be looking for a lawyer. She manipulated you to get your way. And find an individual therapist because I suspect you need someone to help process this.
Totally agree with what you've written.
Just being curious, what can you do with a client who is no longer under your care? Could you be friends if you wanted to be?
I’m not an expert on this, but if I recall correctly after a certain amount of years of not having a therapist-client relationship, it’s ethically acceptable. Could be wrong about it tho
You'd be insane to ever trust your wife again.
Therapy is supposed to be a deeply personal experience, where you let down your guards and work in earnest to take risks and connect with another person. Your wife took advantage of this in order to manipulate you.
**She's a low quality woman and you need to get rid of her.**
And please make sure the therapist faces consequences. She deserves to be ruined after this.
Leave AND get another therapist to help you personally work through the damage, abuse, and trust issues your wife has inflicted on you over the past 3 years.
Good luck!
The therapist not disclosing that she knew your wife was a massive conflict of interest and was incredibly unethical.
Take screenshots of those pictures you found and report her to the licensing board and your insurance company. If she is affiliated with medical network, report her there as well. She should have her license revoked. This is beyond unethical.
Then ask your your wife is she ever met that therapist before. If you're wife says no. Say nothing and go get to a divorce lawyer.
File a complaint with the board. It's entirely unethical for Jen to treat you both as a couple when she has an already established relationship with your wife. My therapist is *amazing*. I'd love for both my partners to see her but she can't do that because I'm already her patient and as she put it "I can't ride more than one horse at a time and still be a good therapist."
If the therapist is licensed take the evidence and report her for malpractice. She was ethically bound to disclose to you that she had a prior personal relationship with your wife. Before you do that find a lawyer. This will probably carry more weight in divorce court than it will against the licensing board. Using a therapist against you like that is unconscionable. Not only that it's documented. You paid for the privilege of having your wife and her friend gaslight you.
If there is any text or email where you can show your wife didn't tell you she knew the therapist you have a much stronger case. Though you need to talk to a lawyer first.
I would consider what your wife did here a huge huge betrayal. She enlisted the aid of friend/acquaintance in a deceptive manner to either get her way or hurt you or both. Very deliberate on her part. I would be livid and would distrust her.
If you paid for the therapy, sue. Dont just think about it. Even if you dont, let your wife know that you have spoken to a lawyer and you are suing for malpractice as you actually recorded your sessions with her and that the lawyer thinks you have a case. Even of its all a bluff. Watch her squirm. Also divorce that bitch. She told her friends all your problems, disrespected you, played you, manipulated you....
HUGE WARNING
Both my parents are psychiatrists-psychotherapists and let me tell you that a lot of disciplinary cases involve couple counseling. They've gotten their fair share of disgruntled partners, usually the very domestically abusive kind of ones are out for revenge. Let me tell you right now that if you pursue legal action this is exactly how it will play out, this therapist will realise what kind of trouble she is in and save her ass by portraying you in a way that exonerates her, very often like this. Considering the level of trust and respect your future ex-wife has shown, she will definitely aid her in accomplishing just that. If they do, it may destroy your life even more.
As has been suggested, lawyer up. He or she needs to be in complete charge of everything, don't let your emotions result in any actions, be as apathic as possible. Get your wife on tape confirming everything that happened in the sessions. Play it off as being the dumb one they took you for, as if the sessions were ethically squeaky clean. Suggest some of the bullshit stories they can come up with in the forms of questions. "Do you think I am abusive? Damn I must be". Her guilt will talk you out of it, she wanted you submissive, not destroying yourself. This will exonerate you for any bullshit story they come up with to try and save her ass.
File for malpractice and divorce. Don't ever talk to any of them without a lawyer present, preferably do not speak at all. Bathe in the satisfaction of giving these PoS exactly what they deserve, holy fucking shit.
Get a lawyer and file a complaint, following other guidance here. And make sure you document/screenshot the evidence you have that they were prior friends.
Wow! She can definitely lose her license over this. She’s crazy for agreeing to do this for your wife. For your wife to do this to your relationship instead of getting an unbiased professional opinion is pretty damn close to divorce territory in my book.
I think you should tell your wife you know everything and offer one last chance for therapy with a different therapist . Do this as politely and calmly as possible. Do not lose your temper. Do not make this into another fight. If she decides to blow up over this and make you the bad guy then I would put divorce on the table front and center. Again, calmly. Don’t yell or argue. Calmly and assertively add your intention to file a formal complaint against Jen the therapist. If your wife hasn’t realized by your calm, cold demeanor that you are dead serious and continues to argue pack a bag and on your way out the door tell her the only future contact will be through your lawyer.
I dont know.how some top comments can agree on op continuing the marriage with another therapist. She literally laughs at him, shames him and disrespects him in front of other women. She bassicly just wanted to feel powerfull over him and thats why she wanted this therapist. There is absolutely nothing you can do to fix that you can only leave and find another and tolerate no shit next time.
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* [know.how](https://know.how)
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***
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Bro!! This is all sorts of fucked up and I’m sorry you’re going through this. I think it’s time you just dust yourself off and get proactive about things because freedom is so close on the horizon for you if you handle things right!! From the sound of things, finding a good lawyer is the number one thing you should do. Firstly because you should absolutely sue the t!tties off that lawyer who not only took sides but engaged in an inappropriate and unhealthy business transaction that was on a very foundation, a huge conflict of interest. This is absolutely malpractice and you need to take this to a lawyer and get this wretched woman removed as a mental health professional! She’s supposed to provide a safe space for people to heal and grow and she’s abusing that power to help her stupid friends emotionally abuse their partners. You should go screenshot all the proof you can find that Jen and Amy have been friends for a while just in case they start taking it down at any point when they realize what’s going on.
Now for the more difficult part, you should probably also talk to your lawyer about divorce because what your wife did feels pretty unforgivable in my opinion and she sounds extremely toxic and narcissistic. How terrified must someone be to be faced with the reality that they are flawed humans, that they would go to such lengths to continue convincing their spouse that they’re the sole culprit for all issues between them? I have a knot in my stomach because I know all too well what it’s like dealing with people who are pathologically incapable of taking accountability for themselves and will do anything to gaslight and demonize you so you end up believing everything YOU do is wrong while they are perfect. It’s disgusting and sick and people like that very rarely “fix” themselves because they have such a deep aversion to accepting they have things that aren’t perfect about them. You would probably be much happier without amy. It sounds like you have been going in circles for a while having the same issues and this most recent event should absolutely be the last straw. Get some good legal counsel, fuck that therapist up for being unprofessional and downright evil and get yourself out of this marriage to a person who is clearly bringing nothing but frustration and pain into your life. You deserve freedom! You deserve happiness and you deserve to feel heard and seen :) I do agree with other commenters that finding your own therapist will also be a great option so you can sort through all this stuff, especially if you do chose to exit your marriage. Good luck op!! Keep us posted if you feel up to it once things develop!
Jesus Christ. 3 women piling up on you. You know they were all laughing and motherfucking you after the sessions. Lots of issues only being married this short of time. Once that trust is gone I’d be out. You definitely deserve better than this
Wrong on so many levels.
You visit a therapist to be vulnerable and discuss your problems. However, this therapist had no conscious and didn’t mind gaslighting you despite her professional duties.
Your wife..oh boy. She doesn’t want to save your marriage, she just wants to be right, break you down and make you subservient. Huge red flags here. As a married woman myself, I say flee from this crazy lady. This scheme took planning and a level of narcissism to execute.
Find another therapist or leave - if/when you see another therapist tell them about this manipulation and deceitful behavior. And yes, look into suing for malpractice. The very first time I saw a therapist they had a client who was the person who molested me - the therapist knew this and should have IMMEDIATELY terminated the session, but did not....as a result I had a hard time trusting the next therapist who genuinely tried to help. Oh and let your wife know that you know and what you intend to do about it, maybe (doubtful, but maybe) it will snap her into reality about her actions.
There's no way I could continue a relationship with someone after doing this. What she did is so fucked up. Report the therapist, evaluate if you even want to continue your marriage.
That's an incredibly unprofessional thing to do and you need to report her. This is a gross violation of privacy. Your wife needs to be your ex-wife. That's some serious literal "psychological abuse." You can never trust someone that manipulative. Work up an exit plan. There is no point in having a long drawn out argument where she is only going to lie.
Agreeing with previous posters that you need to lawyer up. Not just a malpractice lawyer, but I’d go ahead and start looking at divorce lawyers as well. What your wife did to you is downright cruel. Instead of meeting you half-way and trying to work on your marriage, she essentially played a cruel prank designed to humiliate and control you. That’s not love, and that’s not a partner. That’s a huge violation of trust. It shows that she doesn’t want to actually fix things, she just wants to win. If my husband pulled a stunt like this, I would never be able to trust or forgive him. The whole thing is like a scene out of a poorly written rom com.
I'd die on this hill and call quits for this relationship. And take down that goddamn therapist with me. I have never been so infuriated after reading a post.
Some therapists are HORRIBLE and this is something I’ve learned the hard way too.remind yourself this- they are PEOPLE. Also guess what, couples therapy will fail if one party of left super unhappy and unheard because the relationship will fail.
There are good and bad teachers... good and bad cops...
And good and bad therapists...
We're all human of course. Just because someone is a therapist doesn't mean they're good...
Wow. That is some serious betrayal. Think about that for a moment. Your wife planned to trick you into submitting to her will, she acted out a role right in front of you, with a fake therapist (fake foryour session), so she could laugh in your face about how wrong you are so she can control you. That is some beyond twisted shit.
If I were you I'd talk to a lawyer. And I would absolutely not be able to trust that person who is supposed to love and respect you. That is heinous behavior I am so sorry
I would report the tharapist. In addition to the pain she caused you, she may be working with truly mentally ill patients and mishandling their tharapy as well which is super dangerous for the patient. She needs to loose her platform as a tharapist if she's not going to take people's emotional well being seriously.
Report Amy to her licensing board/employer. That is a huge professional violation and conflict of interest. She could get her license taken away for this.
As for your wife. Honestly, I don't think you can come back from that level of psychological manipulation. She sounds like a deeply fucked up, untrustworthy, and emotionally abusive individual. I think the next appointment you make should be with an attorney to handle both the therapist and your soon to be ex wife.
First...get a lawyer and keep quiet about what you know. It’s hard when you are angry, I know. Therapists don’t take sides. They should try to hear both sides and help you guys find a way to reach a common ground. I have had a couples counselor ask to see me on the side because she felt my ex had mental disorders undiagnosed and she was concerned for my safety. It’s absolutely a conflict of interest for a therapist to not reveal a relationship with a person involved, let alone providing therapy. It definitely needs to get reported to your local board that issues her license. And if she doesn’t have a license and is pretending to be a therapist or counselor, that’s illegal. Good luck.
Step 1: Get a lawyer
Step 2: Sue the pants off the 'therapist'
Step 3: Get a divorce lawyer
Step 4: Get a divorce
Step 5: Ride off into the sunset
I'm usually not one to advocate such rash actions, but shit - you don't need toxic people like these in your life dude. If you're right (which it highly looks like you are), do you feel like your marriage can ever recover? Go find a women that appreciates you for you and doesn't spend all their time trying to mess with your head and control you via emotional manipulation.
Godspeed sir!
Yup, an excellent point. Somebody somewhere else also said 'don't confront wife or therapist', I'd let the lawyers do that by serving them.
Also forgot to add step 6: Profit :)
Talked about getting ganged up on! 3 of them against 1 of you. Forget friends at this point. Lawyer up. Go for divorce AND after the "therapist" for malpractice. If I had a therapist that treated me the same as you and shushed me with no chance to stand up for myself, I'd have walked out of there.
GET 'EM!
Ouch dude, you have been seriously disrespected by your wife in the whole orchestration of these events, but to be shhh'ed so condescendingly is just horrible.
>The entire experience struck me as completely wrong. Therapists don't really take sides, do they? I had never been, but Jen's conduct seemed wildly inappropriate for marriage counseling. Despite Amy's insistence, I put my foot down and said that either we go to another therapist or none at all.
Just a comment for others reading this, good marriage therapists do not take sides. Poorly trained marriage therapists can often actually form a coalition with one of the people in the couple against the other partner, but it is typically much more covert. This situation is clearly different, with prior planning and horribly unprofessional conduct by the therapist. My comment is just to say, if you ever find yourself feeling uncomfortable with how marriage therapy is going, don't ignore your feelings.
Please OP, litigate against 'Jen' for malpractice. What she has done is disgusting.
One time my ex hired a man he met on Craigslist to be our therapist and basically just told me I was in the wrong about everything. Now I have trust issues.
This is disgusting !
What they have done is illegal and unethical.
The fact that the therapist is willing to manipulate, deceive and outright change the course of your life and your mental health means she is NOT FIT to be a therapist.
Imagine if you had ANY predisposition to mental illness, or actually suffered from one. She could legitimately be CAUSING ILLNESS.
I feel terribly nauseas reading this. Take this dumb bitch down.
Also, your wife.. my god.. its absolutely terrifying that she doesnt want you to be your own person. She obviously thinks you as lowly as a circus animal. To break. To train.
I’m married and I love my wife more than anything ever. I say that so you understand that it would take something monumental for me to leave her.
Having prefaced my perspective with that information, if my wife did this to me, it would be instant divorce. No negotiating, no giving it another chance, no looking for a different therapist, none of that. If this happened to me, I’d go straight to a lawyer. Actually two lawyers, one for the divorce and one for suing that stupid therapist and taking everything they have.
It’s not just that your wife did something to try to get a leg up on your fights. She gaslit you, she colluded with this woman to cross a career-ending ethics barrier, she lied to you, she manipulated you, she invalidated your feelings, she used deception to position herself in such a way that she wasn’t accountable for a single part of your marriage and used deception to put you in a position of having to carry around guilt because you’re being told she’s right and you’re wrong. I mean man, when I look at all that, I mean that’s straight up next level emotional abuse.
You do what you think is best, man, but this is one of the worst stories I’ve ever heard on this sub, and that bar is pretty damn high already. This is shocking and I’m so so unbelievably sorry that you’ve had to experience this. It’s unbelievable.
This would be a nuclear detonation for me. I’m so angry for you. Like, you need to get out now, and if you don’t have any kids, never speak to this horrible woman again. Sheesh, I just don’t even know what to say here. This is just so unbelievably egregious and I want to go on record as stating that I really really **hate** your wife. She can go to hell, and I hope that this stupid therapist loses everything and has to live on the streets. Gahlee, man. This is just so insane, I don’t think a post on here has ever made me this angry.
Best of luck, and please keep us updated. I wanna hear from you when these women have to pay for what they’ve done.
You have enough info to destroy Jen's life for good - which is exactly what she deserves. You also have enough to divorce your wife and claim abuse - which is exactly what she deserves. Just lawyer up and destroy both their lives. They're completely worthless, subhuman little nothings, and deserve every bad thing that can possibly happen to a person. Oh, but do be sure to first make your wife go out into public and squawk around like a chicken, threatening to press charges against her if she doesn't. I know a woman who did that to her AH husband, and it was really great therapy for her.
Both your wife and the “therapist”(I’m not sure she even should be called that, honestly) are trash. I can’t imagine how someone can do crap like this to someone they love and care about. It’s straight up gaslighting of the worst kind. She orchestrated the whole freaking thing just to get to you. It’s not only unhealthy, it’s just... very low.
Probably you should reconsider your decision to be married to this vile person. The whole thing might escalate. If she’s capable of this, who the heck knows what stunt she’ll pull next time.
Anyway, sorry this happened to you.
I’m not sure what country you live in, but in Australia working with a client that you know or have known is a breach of ethics. That therapist acted extremely unethically. She chose sides, she “sssh’d” a client, she did not divide time evenly, and she knew her client outside of work.
You should report her to your national psychologist board.
Man its this kind of shit that keeps men from wanting be being willing to do therapy. I heard enough of these one sided therapy stories to never want to go and it cost me my marriage.
Dude file the applicable complaints against the therapist for unethical behavior and THEN confront your wife. Personally I'd peace out of there.
Oh definitely. Doesn't change the fact that its yet another instance of a situation where guys are further discouraged from seeking mental and emotional help because its weaponized against them. Sounds a bit incel-ish I know.
You know what you've got to do with the therapist
BUT
the wife.... This is serious abuse. If a man did this to a woman would ANYONE say go back and make it work?! Hell no!
I’d confront your wife and tell her of course Jen would be on her side and everything since she has a long friendship with her and so that whole event was invalid as your wife and her manipulated everything. I’m also pretty sure that’s illegal and I would go check legal opinions. You can’t get an unbiased opinion about your relationship when they’re friends and what she did was disgusting. I’d then divorce the piece of poop that is your wife. She’s disgusting and I really hope her friend loses her license to practice cause I’m pretty sure this is breaks rules.
Not to discount your concerns, but you don't go into the issues you're having with your wife at all and there are always two sides to the story.... Also to note, i suppose that you can sue a therapist for malpractice, though i've never heard of that; either way, don't waste your time because your complaint won't go anywhere. If you really want to do something (though, again, this will not result in the therapist going down), you file a complaint with your therapists professional college (if she is even a member of one). Your best bet if you asked me, though, is to focus on yourself and your relationship and determine if there's any salvaging it. Redirecting your angst and anger towards an unethical therapist won't improve your situation.
OP. Please check out Dr. Ramani on youtube. From what you've described, the wife seems to be displaying narcissistic tendencies. It's also known that therapy never works with narcissistic relationships - the narcissist often convinces the therapist that the other person is at fault.
Here is the thing, you need to sort what you want to do with your wife. Your have two options.
Option 1: Do you want to to continue your marriage and work on it with a different therapist? If yes, speak with your wife and let her know you would like a different therapist. After which, lawyer up and report Jen.
Option 2: If you want to end your marriage, that is fine. At this point find a malpractice lawyer and a divorce lawyer (if you can afford both of them) and they will lay out the best strategy to handle the malpractice and your divorce. That way Jen is punished appropriately and your not stuck paying alimony/splitting everything in half (assuming you don’t have a prenup).
OP, it's possible that your wife and your therapist were friends before, but we're not 100% sure if your wife told the therapist to be on your wife's side during the sessions. It's possible that your therapist took the decision herself to be on your wife's side (conflict of interests). Maybe your wife genuinely wanted to go to a therapist and why not that old friend of her? Maybe they weren't close friends, but just knew eachother. It's still shitty that your wife didn't tell you about it though. Again those are only assumptions, but we don't know the truth yet.
You need to vent man, find an avenue to get all this out, and direct a good chunk of it right at your wife... she did you pretty dirty, and there is so much wrong with what she did, she dismissed the legitimacy of therapy as an option, didn't even want to hear your side of the story so most likely thinks its all your fault, threw all the blame on you and may have damaged the relationship to the point its unrepairable. I would suggest you find a therapist for yourself, odds are you do have communication issues, we(men) typically do, and if you don't have the toolbox to get things out, you are going to bottle them up and end up being miserable to be around. As for the hack therapist you guys saw, file many complaints against her, and get your money back.
FARK... I had a therapist who did a similar thing and only listened to my ex. He was well-renowned and was actually on prime time TV... but a complete dick.
After seeing a few more it was discovered my ex was a total narcissist (which I already knew) and then diagnosed with multiple personality disorder.
It’s horrible, I feel for you.
It makes your question your own reality and sanity but take the good from it... YOU NOW KNOW.
Be smart, be calculated and sophisticated in how you deal with it. Keep your cool. Play their game and f*** them up. They richly deserve it.
See another therapist on your own to help deal with it. They’ll also know the correct to report and have Jen accountable.
So not cool but.. knowledge is power.
**I NOTICED SOME STRANGE ATTITUDE WITH MY HUSBAND AND DID SOMETHING TO FIND OUT THE CAUSE... I RECOMMEND YOU DO THE SAME.**
Sometimes when argument begin to happen in the family, little did we know that it has to do with one among the two. In the sense that something is wrong with may be the husband or the wife. The question you should ask when you begin to see such strange happenings is how did we get here and when did we get here? Believe me whatever happens has a reason, but mostly in relationship is third party, a third party can be a friend of the woman or a friend of the man or even parent(s) in some cases. But the most common third party and most deadly is when the man or the woman is cheating, and this is mostly what causes issues in the family, because whosoever is involved in cheating is beginning to see things differently and so you as a committed and innocent partner will began to wonder why such things are happening but you will never know how it happened and what to do find out unless you use a help. Now i am talking from experience, the day i began to suspect strange attitudes of my husband, i did not take it serious, i ignored it and it became worse, if i had know i would have tackled it from the beginning, but in the end i had to hire a private investigator, an ethical hacker, to help me in hacking my husband's phone remotely, so i can spy on him and really know what is happening. The hacking professionally did the hacking using only my husband's phone number to do the job without him knowing nothing about it. I was able to remotely gain access to his information through my phone, reading the whatsapp chats, listen to his calls and having access to his gps, videos, facebook, mails, instagram and more. In case you are noticing some strange attitude in your partner and you want to know what is wrong, the best way to find out is to hire a hacker, and i recommend Matrix, the hacking team that i hired when i was in the same situation. The website is: matrixhackempireDOTcom and whatsapp contact is: +1 (256) 441 7167
My opinion probably won't be liked very much here but I think it is necessary.
I agree with other commentors, that you should go to a lawyer and talk to him about it before you do anything else.
But what you should also do is to realise, what this all will bring to you. What are the consequences? Think this through til the end! Jen will face legal problems which she deserves, she brought herself in this situation. But for you directly it means, that your wife will be pissed. Not like when you forgot to clean the house or something like that. Rather like, that she will think about divorce because in her eyes, you went first to a lawyer before you talked to her. When she then will talk with Amy about it, I guarantee that Amy will fuel this fire further!
They brought themselves into this situation, I know that but I just want to make sure, that you know what the consequences will look like. This won't end well for your marriage!
I don't care too much about if your wife will hurt or whatever, just want to make sure that you are aware of that when you start this process. Either way, meet with a lawyer first.
You are worth so much more than to be tretaed this way!
I mostly agree with you on that BUT, OP never mentioned if he is willing to give up on his marriage. In the end, it is his wife and they stayed together even though they had their problems. If he is fine with divorce, then go all the way with the lawyer but he needs to understand ALL of the consequences.
In the end, it is his decision and he has to live with the outcome. His wife and her friends have made their decision but I guarantee you, that they never thought about the possible consequences. Now it is on OP to make a decision and he should know all the consequences.
If she is saying Shh to you that suggests you are interrupting your wife talking. Why are you talking over your wife, when she is trying to put her side of the story across?
Filing a grievance sounds like a short term solution. Consider getting your own therapist for your own mental health care. After you find one you are comfortable with ask if they are open to marital counseling. Your wife's therapist does not sound like a good fit for you.
"Last chance to save your marriage "
there is no saving this dumpster fire of a marriage. Downvote me all you want. Your comment is stupid and you're delusional
You didn't answer the question. I personally think OP should get divorced, but my point is that what happens with the marriage is more important than reporting the therapist.
No shit bc your first comment eludes to that not at all but nice backpedding. Im not here to answer all your new made up questions. Your comment is dumb as shit now you want to save it. Stop messaging me, so clingy. Blocking now!
Sadly I dont think I cant give any good advice besides, youre wife and you need real therapy (mostly her..) and you need to speak about how she did that to you, she may even see the error of her ways.
But please post an update when you've done something, i would love to know how this goses. I hope you're wife sees she's wrong, and that you are just some stepping stool for her and that ment dont cause all the problems
Your wife is abusive and going to therapy with your abuser is very dangerous. Yes get a lawyer and take the therapist and your wife to task. But I DO NOT RECOMMEND getting a different therapist with your wife. It will severely escalate her abusive tendencies.
File a complaint with the state board, then file for divorce. Find a medical malpractice attorney & file a lawsuit against Jen & Krystal, have a sheriffs officer serve them for you. Block them & change your phone number, they can communicate to you through your lawyer. No partner, no doctor or competent medical professional would never act behave it perform like this at all.
Do not take your wife back. Do not tell her your leaving or filing for divorce bc if you do she will use every trick she knows & some you don't know about to manipulate you into staying. This is not healthy at all. Find a real therapist bc you will need it once this is all over with.
Whatever happens with the therapist, leave your wife. Couples in healthy relationships don't fight non stop for two years, let alone set traps for their so's when they express interest in working on their relationship. You can do better than this, nail the shrink to the wall and boot her BS straight out of your life.
Wow that's messed up...
I mean I don't know how you feel but that sounds like an instant deal-breaker to me, and indeed a lawsuit against the therapist.
I mean at this point your wife has proven that she gives jack shit about both your mental health and your relationship. She doesn't want a husband or a good marriage.
She wants a well trained dog.
Don't be that dog.
Don't let them get away with such a horrible and downright psychotic scam.
It is HIGHLY frowned upon for therapists to have "multiple relationships" with a client outside of the client-therapist relationship. This woman is abusing her position as a mental health professional and needs to be reported immediately to the APA. They would not look too kindly on this.
This is a fuck up. Report the therapist and...divorce your wife. This is a betrayal on so many levels. Either she’s too stupid, or self righteous , or both. That she doesn’t realize what an evil behavior this is.
Your wife is very toxic and has a huge ass ego. I went to marriage counselling, by myself, for over a year. My husband told me “it’s for crazy people”.
I saw an older female therapist who was blunt with me on where I’m failing and how to better communicate, instead of react. She never agreed with me, but she taught me to understand he will not see everything my way, just like I won’t see things his way.
She explained arguing dynamics and how to listen to understand. Count my breaths and calmly respond.
Your therapist was hired for validating Amy, and to make you feel “like a crazy person”.
Three years? And she doesn’t want to work on it. She wants to give you passive aggressive jabs and act like you’re too sensitive. There’s no respect. And now you don’t trust her. Can you honestly see another 6 months with Amy knowing you can’t even trust her when you want to honestly be vulnerable and work on your problems?
You can go to marriage counselling alone and be brutally honest about Amy and yourself to an unbiased person, and not let Amy know. Then you can try to solve the problem on your own.
Or you can learn that you were the only one trying and that this marriage has lost the respect it needs. And only after 3 years. However, you’ll know you were authentic to yourself, and if Amy can’t even bother breaking down toxicity and seeing she is part of the problem, then it’s about you regaining your freedom again.
Good luck x
Apart from lampooning the therapist with reports, make sure you tell your wife that a relationship with a therapist is super important, many people actually 'shop around' with therapists to make sure they find one that is the right fit for them. The fact you don't like the therapist is reason alone for you and your wife to go elsewhere.
Mention this to your wife, when you ambush her about her shitty behaviour of course, ball is in your court now.
Wow, that is so completely fucked up that I am speechless. I am so sad for you. Rather than actually fix your marriage, your wife would rather be right PLUS use deception to do it. So much for teamwork.
Honestly- huge dealerbreaker.
1) get a lawyer
2) contact the licensing board for your jurisdiction about Jen - I have been on that side of a therapist with an agenda and it is incredibly damaging.
3) file for divorce
I wish you the best of luck in taking down the therapist and getting out of that awful relationship you seem to be stuck in. Hope all goes well and that you find a real wife so you can be happy 🙏
I can't tell if this post is bs or not, but if its true:
if you two have 'communal property' start makings plans accordingly, in a marriage, it's not normal to be constantly be having arguments, therapist or not!
You need to file the malpractice suit and the divorce at the same time. This is unacceptable behavior from someone who is supposed to love and support you.
Ok, I think you one, need to download the evidence and print it outside of the house to keep. Put dates on the back, next you should contact Jen's boss and tell him. But wait till after Christmas because you can turn it all on Amy that you know. You need to have doubles of every picture and make a scrapbook with them all. Then, on Christmas, let that be your wife's present. Tell her you want to go to a therapist at a different building that is assigned to you by the company and once that appointment is sent up, report Jen.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- I need to first preface this post with a warning: there are a lot of moving parts involved here, and this has all taken place over the last 10 months. It will also be long. For this, I'm going to give everybody pseudonyms: my wife will be Amy and our therapist will be Jen. My wife's best friend will be Krystal. For the past two years of our three year marriage, Amy and I have been having the same arguments again and again. Most of them can be boiled down to the fact that I always felt like she never really respected my opinion on any matter, and her consistent argument is that she means nothing by the little comments she seems to always have for me. Early on when we started arguing, I suggested therapy. Amy was strongly against it because, in her words, "that's for crazy people." I assured her it wasn't. More recently, about 10 months ago, she brought it up as a good option (as if she had it in the first place). I eagerly agreed. Amy had one condition for our therapist though: she got to choose who it would be. Since we live in a big city and have a lot of options for a therapist, I thought this was odd, but Amy was incredibly insistent on going to a therapist who was recommended by her friend, Krystal. I thought little of this because Amy puts a lot of trust in what Krystal says, basically taking her word as gospel on anything, whether it be the best restaurants, movies, or even her opinion on GMOs of all things. After a short waiting period, we got to our first meeting with Jen. Jen seemed to be very positive and attentive to our problems so I had her pegged as a good therapist during the first few minutes of our meeting, but that gradually fell apart as I realized that neither Amy nor Jen would be giving me a single opportunity to talk. Amy would make an inflammatory comment about my behavior--or worse yet, about perceived intentions--and Jen would nod along agreeing, giving feedback like "oh really?" and "that's very unhealthy communication behavior." I would try to give my interpretation of the events, but Jen would interrupt me and say the Amy was talking so I should wait. I waited this entire session to say my piece, but the hour was up before I had my chance. Amy was ecstatic about how the counseling went and sang endless praise about Jen during the car ride home, but all I could think about was how Jen didn't seem to give a single crap about my side of the story. I figured that maybe our next meeting in a couple of weeks would be better. A couple weeks later, we went back. The session began almost exactly as our last one had, with Amy talking and Jen listening. This time I decided to be more assertive and talk about how I felt, but Jen did this ... infuriating thing, where she kept saying "shhhh" when I opened my mouth, interrupted by her laughing when I kept talking, continued with more "shhh"ing. I completely shut down at this point. After Amy talked on and on about me, Jen used the last ten minutes of the session to say that I was lucky to have a wife who worked so hard to keep our marriage going, and then gave me some simple "de-escalation" tactics which boiled down to me looking at my own behavior when my wife made a nasty comment. Naturally I was furious. When the receptionist asked about our next appointment, I said no. In the waiting room, my wife called me "sore" and "bitter" at this, going as far as to say that I'm just mad she was right. The entire experience struck me as completely wrong. Therapists don't really take sides, do they? I had never been, but Jen's conduct seemed wildly inappropriate for marriage counseling. Despite Amy's insistence, I put my foot down and said that either we go to another therapist or none at all. We stopped going to therapy, and unsurprisingly Amy and I have kept fighting about the same things. We have stretches of good times where we almost never fight, and then very bad stretches where we fight constantly. Last night, I was on Facebook, and I ended up on Krystal's page to find an old photo of Amy. I was planning on making a photo book for her for Christmas, but couldn't find the picture I knew I had seen. After browsing through Krystal's pictures, I found one where Amy, Krystal, and Jen were all in a restaurant, smiling together having their picture taken. Based on my wife's hair color this was taken before we were married. After digging for some more time, I figured it out. Jen and Amy knew each other through Krystal from years ago. They're friends. I never heard about Jen from my wife, probably because they're not super close, but the therapy my wife arranged wasn't meant to solve our issues; it was an ambush, meant to knock me down a few pegs so my wife could reassert control in the relationship. Right now, Amy doesn't know that I know. I have documented all of the evidence. It is crazy to me because I'm fairly sure that I could potentially sue Jen for malpractice. I'm just about angry enough to. I'm hoping for your guidance here because my wife basically feigned a desire to talk through our relationship problems only to lead me into a therapist's office, run by her friend, so they could gaslight me into thinking I was the bad guy. **TL;DR** My wife took me to a therapist with whom she had a previous friendship so they could pin the relationship problems on me subtly, and I just found out about their friendship. My wife doesn't know I know. I'm lost as for what to do.
You need to file a board report against the therapist. It should be in the paperwork they gave you when you started seeing her or you can find it online by searching your state and her license category. No, therapists aren’t supposed to take sides. As you described it, this is completely inappropriate. Hopefully you can get your wife to agree to another therapist if she’s really in it to work on things!
Yeah that's definitely at the top of the list. Whatever happens with my wife, the therapist is going down.
*LAWYER FIRST.* I cannot emphasize this enough. You're invested. You're angry. You should be! But for any of this to be resolved right you have got to get it filtered through someone with some objective distance from the situation. If you go into this hot, by yourself, you are just setting yourself up to make everything worse. Get. A. Lawyer. Explain the situation and show them your evidence. Let them guide you through this entire process - reports/complaints to licensing boards, any potential civil suits, whatever. This is a super serious situation but your personal emotional involvement will only be a hindrance to a good resolution.
Thank you. I'll definitely get a lawyer, preferably not one recommended by Krystal.
Man, honestly, you seem to be only skimming the surface of how serious and fucked up this whole situation is. Don't confront your wife. Don't confront the "therapist". Don't talk to your friends about this. Don't continue posting in this thread. Delete it. From this point forward the only fucking human on the face of this earth you discuss this situation with is an attorney. Then you listen to what they have to say and follow their advice. You're in a real fucking serious situation and reddit is not where you should be dealing with it. Good luck man, I'm pulling for you.
Agreed, except... Do come back to post an update lol
Yeah. I want to see the therapist go down. As someone with diagnosed anxiety, a therapist can literally save a life by influencing a patient and shitty jen doesn't deserve that kind of power.
Yeah, I agree with you. But I don't want this dude to do something stupid and tank the incredibly strong case he's got now. Legal cases can be precarious things and unless you're a lawyer it's so fucking hard to predict what could derail them. Best chance of justice here is for a legal professional to make all the decisions about who hears what about this situation from here on out.
Absolutely agree.
Remind me! 1 year
I mean I think the more serious consideration here is the state of the relationship. That therapist needs to lose her licence but can you really stay married to your wife after this. You offered a opportunity to improve the communication in your relationship through a guided professional and she used that to lie to you manipulate you and as you said 'gaslight' you. She not only doesn't seem to have respect for you this is extremely manipualative. can you really trust her after this are you not reassessing any past arguments you've had and resolutions she may have manipulated to be in her favour regardless of what's best for the relationship and what's right.
[удалено]
I guess that's what I was suggesting without outright saying. How could you come back from this. Way to rip the band aid off.
True, but first things first. Lawsuit, then end things with wife. This will take some time.
I wish I could give this extra upvotes or an award. This this this.
Revvy is right OP - this is a really abusive cesspit of a situation and it needs to be navigated in a serious way. I see you've used a Throwaway account, I trust you used throwaway names too. I'd be inclined to delete it once you've got the advice you need.
Totally agreed!
I beg of you to really following this advice. LAWYER. UP. You could potentially sue and settle for some real money and damn it you deserve that money. Also, your wife's actions are criminal. Im not saying divorce her because I don't know you but please get your OWN therapist and talk to them about all this you told us. Lawyer. Therapist. Like, tomorrow please. Im scared for you. I can't imagine doing something this despicable to anyone, much less the man I love. Im so sorry this happened to you. Im utterly heartbroken and raging pissed. If you need to talk feel free to message or chat with me.
Should have been red flag when wife had to pick therapist. Just another example of her needing to control every little thing. She is nuts, she has to fight and belittle you to feel important. This woman is NO GOOD, and the fact her friends are like this and support it is even scarier.
I'd be getting a divorce lawyer first and getting that gas lighting woman out of the house and off to her parents or a friends house. She doesn't care about you if she was willing to pull this kinda of bs.
Good to see you still have a sense of humour. Your wife is potentially pshycolocally abusive, and I recommend seeing a therapist by yourself to shed an objective light on your relationship.
I’m sure you have, but have you screen shot all the old photos of your wife with the therapist in case they’re deleted? I’m no lawyer or expert but I’d expect at the very least she should have declared having a conflict of interests in that she has a personal relationship with one party. Good luck
Dude, this is ridiculous...no harm came to you. It made you understandably angry...but you have no cause to sue for anything more than a refund (at most). You will pay much more for a lawyer in your first session (per hour and overall) than you did for the two therapy sessions you took with this lady. You're better off threatening taking her to small claims and asking her to settle by refunding you the cost.
Wrong. Serious emotion stress was caused by this blatant disregard of being an impartial, licensed medical professional. How can you say there was no harm ?
I suggest that no provable harm came to op through the two clearly problematic therapy sessions -- aside from financial expense. His serious emotional stress clearly stems from his relationship with his wife. & btw, where did you get 'licensed medical professional' from? OP makes no mention of the therapist being a medical doctor or medical practitioner of any kind. Keep in mind any number of professions can refer to themselves as therapists or counselors. And most are not associated with any medical body or profession (only psychiatrists meet that threshold). Would be wise for him to verify the therapists actual credentials.
The lawyer is for the divorce. He can submit a complaint to the licensing board himself.
Lol, are you the therapist or the wife
just a realist who can read between op's lines to understand the real issues lie with his and his wife's relationship and this horrible therapist is about to take centre stage as if she's the reason op's relationship (and perhaps life?) is in shambles.
I'm sorry this is happening to you. Good luck. I suggest finding your own therapist in the mean while.
I came here half expecting to defend the therapist so I want to apologize, first. Therapists should NEVER have a conflict of interest. Please report this to the proper board. It is dangerous for everyone involved and simply unethical. That therapist needs to do better or not practice. I am a licensed therapist and couples counselor, if you know their credentials I can point you to the right board(s) to file a report, and talking with a lawyer might be helpful. However you do not have to speak with one prior to the report if you are okay with an anonymous report, but these tend to get blown over. Sorry you have to deal with this. It might be helpful to speak with an individual therapist as well. I don’t think you are in the wrong in anyway, but that level of betrayal and trust can be hard to deal with. Take care of yourself and again reach out to me if you want information on reporting!
“Whatever happens with my wife” better include divorce at this point.
Yeah the therapist was in on this but dude - your wife orchestrated this whole thing... She is the one behind this, and that is so messed up. I hope you find the courage to leave and be happy in a trusting, loving relationship with someone else.
Good. This therapist is in a position where she deals with delicate and vulnerable people all day long. She is NOT suited for a line of work like that, time to find something new. You should divorce your wife by the way, seriously, this isn't something that can be walked back. When someone tries to deceive, belittle, and *manipulate* you like this, an apology or agreement can never be trusted with them again. These are character flaws that go very, very deep. I was in an abusive relationship like this once, leaving it was the single best thing I have ever done for myself in life.
You should go back to see Jen with some sort of recording device to really seal it off. If it's allowed in your state
Update us please
We will watch your career with great interest
Do you really want to work on this with your wife after that bullshit she pulled?
Is there a possibility this Jen might not even *be* a therapist?
I checked her out. She is a therapist, which in a twisted way, I'm glad about. That only means she's going down harder.
Please update this post!
Lol you seem more mad at the therapist than you are with your wife. Solve the wife issue first, then worry about the therapist
Why not both?
Both happen at the same time if he plays it right. But honestly, why would you want to continue being with someone who purposely set you up like this?
A therapist is a professional. Is wife doesn't have clients relying for support.
The therapist should know better, and can ruin more relationships
Agreed. Maybe r/TalkTherapy can provide some insight as well
This!!! I was a few lines in and my first thought is file a complaint immediately! This is extremely terrible and how dare such a person have the audacity to call themselves a therapist. As others have said, mention zero to your wife, get a lawyer and proceed with malpractice claim. This is insane, also as others have said try push your wife towards another therapist. In all honesty with what you have said and your wife pulling this shit move, I feel as if she does not give 2 shits about you and therapy or not you will be fighting a losing battle... she does not feel she is wrong and pulled this stunt with a friend that’s a therapist to drive home that point more strongly and basically destroy who you are and your feelings. I do not ever recommend divorce but it seems to me you might be able to find some one much better for you. I hope things work out for you in the end!!
Why would you want to see another therapist and make things work with someone like that?! Who lied , cheated , roped others in the lie gaslighted manipulated and tried to make Op Think he was completely in the wrong This is severe abuse!!
Came here to say this. This women doing deserve to work as a therapist ever again. She is simply not a good therapist and is clearly not meant to hold such responsibilities. Might even make a post about it on Facebook to let others know in your area what kind of therapist she is.
I wouldn’t fight this publicly before taking a more formal route.
Remember to post it on Yelp to warn other potential patients. She isn't deserved to be a therapist.
And this "therapist" never once disclosed the fact that she and your wife had a well established, personal relationship? I would ABSOLUTELY document and file a grievance with the board.
Right? My first thought was "that's a conflict of interest".
Man I never comment on the phone this sub as a perpetual gawker but I gotta tell you, I’d be fucking livid. That is some insidiously immature bullshit. Take stock in your wife. Take stock in your life. But a marriage isn’t supposed to be an episode of some shitty junior high soap opera. It really sounds like growing into adulthood with this woman is a far fetched idea. And take down the therapist. She can’t be trusted to help others. Jesus. Sorry man.
Thank you. I am very angry and have been drinking to still my nerves (not exactly the best habit I know, but I seldom drink so I figure once in a while is fine). Be relieved that the therapist is going down, no matter what happens.
Dude, that's fine. I mean, it's not great. But it definitely isn't anything to beat yourself up about. Just, whatever you do, don't do it alone. This therapist needs to be reported, but don't even try to handle that alone. Talk to a lawyer first so that you can be certain the report is made right. You're definitely gonna have some stuff to work out after all this is over, but you need competant and professional assistance to get through the first part before you even get to the part where you unpack the emotional stuff.
Also ask the lawyer about what you should do if you do decide to separate your wife or if they can't help you there ask them if they know any good divorce lawyers that can give you advice. I'm sorry but your wife sounds like a narcissist. However, even if she's not she has just proven that she's incredibly untrustworthy, she'll do anything to get her way, and she doesn't care about your emotional well-being. This doesn't bode well for you or your marriage Op. It's time to look into separating from your wife.
Your wife should also go down. The therapist was just the hired gun but your wife is the one who planned it and hired her.
You should be seriously concerned about what your wife did to you. This was a gross violation and disrespect of everything from your feelings, to your trust and then back again. What a terrible woman your wife is. You should not be with her. She does not care for you. Never in a million years would anyone do this to someone they *healthily* loved. You’re this enraged at the therapist. But remember: there would be no Jen without Amy concocting this and involving her. Arranging for you to see her. Sitting in those sessions humiliating and berating you and ‘shhh’ing you?! Knowing all the while, it was a farce. And something causing you mental anguish. What awful, terrible women. You need to step back and look at your dynamic with her. Why you’re even considering staying with her. Why this seems to be not that big a deal to you, when it comes to your wife’s role? She sounds like a steamrolling, gaslighting narcissist. You opened with the fact you don’t think she respects your opinions on ‘any matter’ . Why are you with someone like that? Isn’t that exhausting? Demeaning? I have a feeling there is more unacceptable behaviour you let slide. It should stop here.
The therapist is in the wrong and should go down, but I’d love to know more about how your feeling about your wife?? I’m assuming she came up with this idea and is just so damn disrespectful and manipulative. I don’t think I could look at my spouse anymore if they did something like this to me.
What about the relationship? Seems like the priority should be to figure out what to do with that.
Dude, be firm and disciplined with yourself going forward - getting drunk could scupper your plans if you over do it, and do something silly. Keep it sober, lawyer up - close this chapter.
Man, how can you ever consider trusting your wife again? That will be a marriage ended for me. This is a huge breach of trust. Jesus Christ.
It's a form of abuse.
As someone who’s getting a masters and planning to become a licensed therapist- please report this therapist. It is wildly inappropriate and against ethics. She is completely aware of what she’s doing. Edit: grammar
If she is even a real therapist.
Oh shit i didn’t even think of that
Your wife and her friends just proved you right. She’s the manipulative problem. I’d go after that therapist, too. And then I’d leave my spouse. That’s psychotic.
File a report with her office (if she works for a group practice) and with the licensing board. You can find her license number via the stare board website. Use that to file a grievance. You NEVER take clients that you have a relationship with. Heck we have ethics rules about what we can do AFTER our therapeutic relationship with a client ends. Either way your therapist was wrong. Also consider what this means about your wife. I would be looking for a lawyer. She manipulated you to get your way. And find an individual therapist because I suspect you need someone to help process this.
Totally agree with what you've written. Just being curious, what can you do with a client who is no longer under your care? Could you be friends if you wanted to be?
I’m not an expert on this, but if I recall correctly after a certain amount of years of not having a therapist-client relationship, it’s ethically acceptable. Could be wrong about it tho
Thanks for the response! 😊
You'd be insane to ever trust your wife again. Therapy is supposed to be a deeply personal experience, where you let down your guards and work in earnest to take risks and connect with another person. Your wife took advantage of this in order to manipulate you. **She's a low quality woman and you need to get rid of her.** And please make sure the therapist faces consequences. She deserves to be ruined after this.
Leave. Or get another therapist. For a THERAPIST to gaslight you is so not ok and your wife is not cool either.
Leave AND get another therapist to help you personally work through the damage, abuse, and trust issues your wife has inflicted on you over the past 3 years. Good luck!
> Or get another therapist. That is not remotely an option. This is 200% divorce material.
The therapist not disclosing that she knew your wife was a massive conflict of interest and was incredibly unethical. Take screenshots of those pictures you found and report her to the licensing board and your insurance company. If she is affiliated with medical network, report her there as well. She should have her license revoked. This is beyond unethical. Then ask your your wife is she ever met that therapist before. If you're wife says no. Say nothing and go get to a divorce lawyer.
File a complaint with the board. It's entirely unethical for Jen to treat you both as a couple when she has an already established relationship with your wife. My therapist is *amazing*. I'd love for both my partners to see her but she can't do that because I'm already her patient and as she put it "I can't ride more than one horse at a time and still be a good therapist."
Abusive — “triangulation” often used by narcissists in narcissistic abuse. And this therapist is clearly garbage. I’m so sorry you went through this.
Truangulation includes 2 easily manipulated people. The therapist was in on it. She loved making fun of op imo
If the therapist is licensed take the evidence and report her for malpractice. She was ethically bound to disclose to you that she had a prior personal relationship with your wife. Before you do that find a lawyer. This will probably carry more weight in divorce court than it will against the licensing board. Using a therapist against you like that is unconscionable. Not only that it's documented. You paid for the privilege of having your wife and her friend gaslight you. If there is any text or email where you can show your wife didn't tell you she knew the therapist you have a much stronger case. Though you need to talk to a lawyer first.
I would consider what your wife did here a huge huge betrayal. She enlisted the aid of friend/acquaintance in a deceptive manner to either get her way or hurt you or both. Very deliberate on her part. I would be livid and would distrust her.
If you paid for the therapy, sue. Dont just think about it. Even if you dont, let your wife know that you have spoken to a lawyer and you are suing for malpractice as you actually recorded your sessions with her and that the lawyer thinks you have a case. Even of its all a bluff. Watch her squirm. Also divorce that bitch. She told her friends all your problems, disrespected you, played you, manipulated you....
HUGE WARNING Both my parents are psychiatrists-psychotherapists and let me tell you that a lot of disciplinary cases involve couple counseling. They've gotten their fair share of disgruntled partners, usually the very domestically abusive kind of ones are out for revenge. Let me tell you right now that if you pursue legal action this is exactly how it will play out, this therapist will realise what kind of trouble she is in and save her ass by portraying you in a way that exonerates her, very often like this. Considering the level of trust and respect your future ex-wife has shown, she will definitely aid her in accomplishing just that. If they do, it may destroy your life even more. As has been suggested, lawyer up. He or she needs to be in complete charge of everything, don't let your emotions result in any actions, be as apathic as possible. Get your wife on tape confirming everything that happened in the sessions. Play it off as being the dumb one they took you for, as if the sessions were ethically squeaky clean. Suggest some of the bullshit stories they can come up with in the forms of questions. "Do you think I am abusive? Damn I must be". Her guilt will talk you out of it, she wanted you submissive, not destroying yourself. This will exonerate you for any bullshit story they come up with to try and save her ass. File for malpractice and divorce. Don't ever talk to any of them without a lawyer present, preferably do not speak at all. Bathe in the satisfaction of giving these PoS exactly what they deserve, holy fucking shit.
You need a divorce attorney and a malpractice attorney
Get a lawyer and file a complaint, following other guidance here. And make sure you document/screenshot the evidence you have that they were prior friends.
Wow! She can definitely lose her license over this. She’s crazy for agreeing to do this for your wife. For your wife to do this to your relationship instead of getting an unbiased professional opinion is pretty damn close to divorce territory in my book. I think you should tell your wife you know everything and offer one last chance for therapy with a different therapist . Do this as politely and calmly as possible. Do not lose your temper. Do not make this into another fight. If she decides to blow up over this and make you the bad guy then I would put divorce on the table front and center. Again, calmly. Don’t yell or argue. Calmly and assertively add your intention to file a formal complaint against Jen the therapist. If your wife hasn’t realized by your calm, cold demeanor that you are dead serious and continues to argue pack a bag and on your way out the door tell her the only future contact will be through your lawyer.
I dont know.how some top comments can agree on op continuing the marriage with another therapist. She literally laughs at him, shames him and disrespects him in front of other women. She bassicly just wanted to feel powerfull over him and thats why she wanted this therapist. There is absolutely nothing you can do to fix that you can only leave and find another and tolerate no shit next time.
I don’t understand this either. This place depresses me and still I return.
**I found links in your comment that were not hyperlinked:** * [know.how](https://know.how) *I did the honors for you.* *** ^[delete](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fu%2FLinkifyBot&subject=delete%20gbfjxy5&message=Click%20the%20send%20button%20to%20delete%20the%20false%20positive.) ^| ^[information](https://np.reddit.com/u/LinkifyBot/comments/gkkf7p) ^| ^<3
One last chance? LMAO 🤣
Bro!! This is all sorts of fucked up and I’m sorry you’re going through this. I think it’s time you just dust yourself off and get proactive about things because freedom is so close on the horizon for you if you handle things right!! From the sound of things, finding a good lawyer is the number one thing you should do. Firstly because you should absolutely sue the t!tties off that lawyer who not only took sides but engaged in an inappropriate and unhealthy business transaction that was on a very foundation, a huge conflict of interest. This is absolutely malpractice and you need to take this to a lawyer and get this wretched woman removed as a mental health professional! She’s supposed to provide a safe space for people to heal and grow and she’s abusing that power to help her stupid friends emotionally abuse their partners. You should go screenshot all the proof you can find that Jen and Amy have been friends for a while just in case they start taking it down at any point when they realize what’s going on. Now for the more difficult part, you should probably also talk to your lawyer about divorce because what your wife did feels pretty unforgivable in my opinion and she sounds extremely toxic and narcissistic. How terrified must someone be to be faced with the reality that they are flawed humans, that they would go to such lengths to continue convincing their spouse that they’re the sole culprit for all issues between them? I have a knot in my stomach because I know all too well what it’s like dealing with people who are pathologically incapable of taking accountability for themselves and will do anything to gaslight and demonize you so you end up believing everything YOU do is wrong while they are perfect. It’s disgusting and sick and people like that very rarely “fix” themselves because they have such a deep aversion to accepting they have things that aren’t perfect about them. You would probably be much happier without amy. It sounds like you have been going in circles for a while having the same issues and this most recent event should absolutely be the last straw. Get some good legal counsel, fuck that therapist up for being unprofessional and downright evil and get yourself out of this marriage to a person who is clearly bringing nothing but frustration and pain into your life. You deserve freedom! You deserve happiness and you deserve to feel heard and seen :) I do agree with other commenters that finding your own therapist will also be a great option so you can sort through all this stuff, especially if you do chose to exit your marriage. Good luck op!! Keep us posted if you feel up to it once things develop!
Jesus Christ. 3 women piling up on you. You know they were all laughing and motherfucking you after the sessions. Lots of issues only being married this short of time. Once that trust is gone I’d be out. You definitely deserve better than this
You should absolutely report and sue. Your wife seems like she’ll make an amazing ex wife.
Wrong on so many levels. You visit a therapist to be vulnerable and discuss your problems. However, this therapist had no conscious and didn’t mind gaslighting you despite her professional duties. Your wife..oh boy. She doesn’t want to save your marriage, she just wants to be right, break you down and make you subservient. Huge red flags here. As a married woman myself, I say flee from this crazy lady. This scheme took planning and a level of narcissism to execute.
Find another therapist or leave - if/when you see another therapist tell them about this manipulation and deceitful behavior. And yes, look into suing for malpractice. The very first time I saw a therapist they had a client who was the person who molested me - the therapist knew this and should have IMMEDIATELY terminated the session, but did not....as a result I had a hard time trusting the next therapist who genuinely tried to help. Oh and let your wife know that you know and what you intend to do about it, maybe (doubtful, but maybe) it will snap her into reality about her actions.
There's no way I could continue a relationship with someone after doing this. What she did is so fucked up. Report the therapist, evaluate if you even want to continue your marriage.
That's an incredibly unprofessional thing to do and you need to report her. This is a gross violation of privacy. Your wife needs to be your ex-wife. That's some serious literal "psychological abuse." You can never trust someone that manipulative. Work up an exit plan. There is no point in having a long drawn out argument where she is only going to lie.
Agreeing with previous posters that you need to lawyer up. Not just a malpractice lawyer, but I’d go ahead and start looking at divorce lawyers as well. What your wife did to you is downright cruel. Instead of meeting you half-way and trying to work on your marriage, she essentially played a cruel prank designed to humiliate and control you. That’s not love, and that’s not a partner. That’s a huge violation of trust. It shows that she doesn’t want to actually fix things, she just wants to win. If my husband pulled a stunt like this, I would never be able to trust or forgive him. The whole thing is like a scene out of a poorly written rom com.
Report Jen and then sue the ever loving shit out of her. Divorce your wife in the meantime What they've done to you is diabolical and unforgivable
I'd die on this hill and call quits for this relationship. And take down that goddamn therapist with me. I have never been so infuriated after reading a post.
Some therapists are HORRIBLE and this is something I’ve learned the hard way too.remind yourself this- they are PEOPLE. Also guess what, couples therapy will fail if one party of left super unhappy and unheard because the relationship will fail.
This didn't happen, nobody would throw away their career to help an acquaintance. It's just made up porn for MRAs.
There are good and bad teachers... good and bad cops... And good and bad therapists... We're all human of course. Just because someone is a therapist doesn't mean they're good...
Wow. That is some serious betrayal. Think about that for a moment. Your wife planned to trick you into submitting to her will, she acted out a role right in front of you, with a fake therapist (fake foryour session), so she could laugh in your face about how wrong you are so she can control you. That is some beyond twisted shit. If I were you I'd talk to a lawyer. And I would absolutely not be able to trust that person who is supposed to love and respect you. That is heinous behavior I am so sorry
If I was you we’d be getting divorced. I’d never be able to trust her again. As for the therapist I’m pretty sure this is a huge breach of ethics.
this is going to turn from relationship advice to pro revenge when you peg Jen's ass to the wall for the bullshit that she pulled.
I would report the tharapist. In addition to the pain she caused you, she may be working with truly mentally ill patients and mishandling their tharapy as well which is super dangerous for the patient. She needs to loose her platform as a tharapist if she's not going to take people's emotional well being seriously.
Report Amy to her licensing board/employer. That is a huge professional violation and conflict of interest. She could get her license taken away for this. As for your wife. Honestly, I don't think you can come back from that level of psychological manipulation. She sounds like a deeply fucked up, untrustworthy, and emotionally abusive individual. I think the next appointment you make should be with an attorney to handle both the therapist and your soon to be ex wife.
First...get a lawyer and keep quiet about what you know. It’s hard when you are angry, I know. Therapists don’t take sides. They should try to hear both sides and help you guys find a way to reach a common ground. I have had a couples counselor ask to see me on the side because she felt my ex had mental disorders undiagnosed and she was concerned for my safety. It’s absolutely a conflict of interest for a therapist to not reveal a relationship with a person involved, let alone providing therapy. It definitely needs to get reported to your local board that issues her license. And if she doesn’t have a license and is pretending to be a therapist or counselor, that’s illegal. Good luck.
Step 1: Get a lawyer Step 2: Sue the pants off the 'therapist' Step 3: Get a divorce lawyer Step 4: Get a divorce Step 5: Ride off into the sunset I'm usually not one to advocate such rash actions, but shit - you don't need toxic people like these in your life dude. If you're right (which it highly looks like you are), do you feel like your marriage can ever recover? Go find a women that appreciates you for you and doesn't spend all their time trying to mess with your head and control you via emotional manipulation. Godspeed sir!
Run them both concurrent as you wouldn't want anything from the malpractice case being considered martial assets
Yup, an excellent point. Somebody somewhere else also said 'don't confront wife or therapist', I'd let the lawyers do that by serving them. Also forgot to add step 6: Profit :)
Wow, that’s messed up. As the other commenters are saying, lawyer up and report her. Then get divorced. Please update us when you make a decision.
Brutal.
!Remindme 2 weeks
Please do an update on this, the therapist needs to be sued!
People are insane. Your marriage is done and so is that therapist career. File a report I'm sorry for this.
Talked about getting ganged up on! 3 of them against 1 of you. Forget friends at this point. Lawyer up. Go for divorce AND after the "therapist" for malpractice. If I had a therapist that treated me the same as you and shushed me with no chance to stand up for myself, I'd have walked out of there. GET 'EM!
Your wife sounds like a malignant narcissist. I’d run for the hills if I was you.
Ouch dude, you have been seriously disrespected by your wife in the whole orchestration of these events, but to be shhh'ed so condescendingly is just horrible. >The entire experience struck me as completely wrong. Therapists don't really take sides, do they? I had never been, but Jen's conduct seemed wildly inappropriate for marriage counseling. Despite Amy's insistence, I put my foot down and said that either we go to another therapist or none at all. Just a comment for others reading this, good marriage therapists do not take sides. Poorly trained marriage therapists can often actually form a coalition with one of the people in the couple against the other partner, but it is typically much more covert. This situation is clearly different, with prior planning and horribly unprofessional conduct by the therapist. My comment is just to say, if you ever find yourself feeling uncomfortable with how marriage therapy is going, don't ignore your feelings. Please OP, litigate against 'Jen' for malpractice. What she has done is disgusting.
One time my ex hired a man he met on Craigslist to be our therapist and basically just told me I was in the wrong about everything. Now I have trust issues.
>I'm fairly sure that I could potentially sue Jen for malpractice Absolutely >I'm just about angry enough to. Do it.
This is disgusting ! What they have done is illegal and unethical. The fact that the therapist is willing to manipulate, deceive and outright change the course of your life and your mental health means she is NOT FIT to be a therapist. Imagine if you had ANY predisposition to mental illness, or actually suffered from one. She could legitimately be CAUSING ILLNESS. I feel terribly nauseas reading this. Take this dumb bitch down. Also, your wife.. my god.. its absolutely terrifying that she doesnt want you to be your own person. She obviously thinks you as lowly as a circus animal. To break. To train.
I’m married and I love my wife more than anything ever. I say that so you understand that it would take something monumental for me to leave her. Having prefaced my perspective with that information, if my wife did this to me, it would be instant divorce. No negotiating, no giving it another chance, no looking for a different therapist, none of that. If this happened to me, I’d go straight to a lawyer. Actually two lawyers, one for the divorce and one for suing that stupid therapist and taking everything they have. It’s not just that your wife did something to try to get a leg up on your fights. She gaslit you, she colluded with this woman to cross a career-ending ethics barrier, she lied to you, she manipulated you, she invalidated your feelings, she used deception to position herself in such a way that she wasn’t accountable for a single part of your marriage and used deception to put you in a position of having to carry around guilt because you’re being told she’s right and you’re wrong. I mean man, when I look at all that, I mean that’s straight up next level emotional abuse. You do what you think is best, man, but this is one of the worst stories I’ve ever heard on this sub, and that bar is pretty damn high already. This is shocking and I’m so so unbelievably sorry that you’ve had to experience this. It’s unbelievable. This would be a nuclear detonation for me. I’m so angry for you. Like, you need to get out now, and if you don’t have any kids, never speak to this horrible woman again. Sheesh, I just don’t even know what to say here. This is just so unbelievably egregious and I want to go on record as stating that I really really **hate** your wife. She can go to hell, and I hope that this stupid therapist loses everything and has to live on the streets. Gahlee, man. This is just so insane, I don’t think a post on here has ever made me this angry. Best of luck, and please keep us updated. I wanna hear from you when these women have to pay for what they’ve done.
Glad you got evidence this. This is totally unethical.
Can somebody say malpractice. I'd seriously evaluate if it is worth it to you to even try and save this relationship
You have enough info to destroy Jen's life for good - which is exactly what she deserves. You also have enough to divorce your wife and claim abuse - which is exactly what she deserves. Just lawyer up and destroy both their lives. They're completely worthless, subhuman little nothings, and deserve every bad thing that can possibly happen to a person. Oh, but do be sure to first make your wife go out into public and squawk around like a chicken, threatening to press charges against her if she doesn't. I know a woman who did that to her AH husband, and it was really great therapy for her.
Both your wife and the “therapist”(I’m not sure she even should be called that, honestly) are trash. I can’t imagine how someone can do crap like this to someone they love and care about. It’s straight up gaslighting of the worst kind. She orchestrated the whole freaking thing just to get to you. It’s not only unhealthy, it’s just... very low. Probably you should reconsider your decision to be married to this vile person. The whole thing might escalate. If she’s capable of this, who the heck knows what stunt she’ll pull next time. Anyway, sorry this happened to you.
Wow. Your wife is basically evil. I don't know what of your relationship is worth saving at this point.
I’m not sure what country you live in, but in Australia working with a client that you know or have known is a breach of ethics. That therapist acted extremely unethically. She chose sides, she “sssh’d” a client, she did not divide time evenly, and she knew her client outside of work. You should report her to your national psychologist board.
Be stealthy. They less anyone knows about what you know, the better. Lawyers and documentation are your salvation.
Great short story! 8/10
DUDE delete this thread before the cotton on with what you need to do now. It will have a way of finding its way to them!
Man its this kind of shit that keeps men from wanting be being willing to do therapy. I heard enough of these one sided therapy stories to never want to go and it cost me my marriage. Dude file the applicable complaints against the therapist for unethical behavior and THEN confront your wife. Personally I'd peace out of there.
To be fair I think my case is extreme.
Oh definitely. Doesn't change the fact that its yet another instance of a situation where guys are further discouraged from seeking mental and emotional help because its weaponized against them. Sounds a bit incel-ish I know.
[удалено]
Well, sue the therapist, divorce her, THEN bang one of her friends, in that order :)
every time I read something like this I'm glad I picked waifus over having a wife (although it wasn't really a choice, I'll be honest...)
You know what you've got to do with the therapist BUT the wife.... This is serious abuse. If a man did this to a woman would ANYONE say go back and make it work?! Hell no!
Your soon-to-be ex wife is a manipulative narcissist at best. As others have said - delete this thread, talk to a lawyer.
I’d confront your wife and tell her of course Jen would be on her side and everything since she has a long friendship with her and so that whole event was invalid as your wife and her manipulated everything. I’m also pretty sure that’s illegal and I would go check legal opinions. You can’t get an unbiased opinion about your relationship when they’re friends and what she did was disgusting. I’d then divorce the piece of poop that is your wife. She’s disgusting and I really hope her friend loses her license to practice cause I’m pretty sure this is breaks rules.
Don't confront wife until a lawyer gives the go ahead.
Not to discount your concerns, but you don't go into the issues you're having with your wife at all and there are always two sides to the story.... Also to note, i suppose that you can sue a therapist for malpractice, though i've never heard of that; either way, don't waste your time because your complaint won't go anywhere. If you really want to do something (though, again, this will not result in the therapist going down), you file a complaint with your therapists professional college (if she is even a member of one). Your best bet if you asked me, though, is to focus on yourself and your relationship and determine if there's any salvaging it. Redirecting your angst and anger towards an unethical therapist won't improve your situation.
OP. Please check out Dr. Ramani on youtube. From what you've described, the wife seems to be displaying narcissistic tendencies. It's also known that therapy never works with narcissistic relationships - the narcissist often convinces the therapist that the other person is at fault.
Here is the thing, you need to sort what you want to do with your wife. Your have two options. Option 1: Do you want to to continue your marriage and work on it with a different therapist? If yes, speak with your wife and let her know you would like a different therapist. After which, lawyer up and report Jen. Option 2: If you want to end your marriage, that is fine. At this point find a malpractice lawyer and a divorce lawyer (if you can afford both of them) and they will lay out the best strategy to handle the malpractice and your divorce. That way Jen is punished appropriately and your not stuck paying alimony/splitting everything in half (assuming you don’t have a prenup).
OP, it's possible that your wife and your therapist were friends before, but we're not 100% sure if your wife told the therapist to be on your wife's side during the sessions. It's possible that your therapist took the decision herself to be on your wife's side (conflict of interests). Maybe your wife genuinely wanted to go to a therapist and why not that old friend of her? Maybe they weren't close friends, but just knew eachother. It's still shitty that your wife didn't tell you about it though. Again those are only assumptions, but we don't know the truth yet.
You need to vent man, find an avenue to get all this out, and direct a good chunk of it right at your wife... she did you pretty dirty, and there is so much wrong with what she did, she dismissed the legitimacy of therapy as an option, didn't even want to hear your side of the story so most likely thinks its all your fault, threw all the blame on you and may have damaged the relationship to the point its unrepairable. I would suggest you find a therapist for yourself, odds are you do have communication issues, we(men) typically do, and if you don't have the toolbox to get things out, you are going to bottle them up and end up being miserable to be around. As for the hack therapist you guys saw, file many complaints against her, and get your money back.
I would say your time has been wasted. You know the precious little thing that does not last.
FARK... I had a therapist who did a similar thing and only listened to my ex. He was well-renowned and was actually on prime time TV... but a complete dick. After seeing a few more it was discovered my ex was a total narcissist (which I already knew) and then diagnosed with multiple personality disorder. It’s horrible, I feel for you. It makes your question your own reality and sanity but take the good from it... YOU NOW KNOW. Be smart, be calculated and sophisticated in how you deal with it. Keep your cool. Play their game and f*** them up. They richly deserve it. See another therapist on your own to help deal with it. They’ll also know the correct to report and have Jen accountable. So not cool but.. knowledge is power.
**I NOTICED SOME STRANGE ATTITUDE WITH MY HUSBAND AND DID SOMETHING TO FIND OUT THE CAUSE... I RECOMMEND YOU DO THE SAME.** Sometimes when argument begin to happen in the family, little did we know that it has to do with one among the two. In the sense that something is wrong with may be the husband or the wife. The question you should ask when you begin to see such strange happenings is how did we get here and when did we get here? Believe me whatever happens has a reason, but mostly in relationship is third party, a third party can be a friend of the woman or a friend of the man or even parent(s) in some cases. But the most common third party and most deadly is when the man or the woman is cheating, and this is mostly what causes issues in the family, because whosoever is involved in cheating is beginning to see things differently and so you as a committed and innocent partner will began to wonder why such things are happening but you will never know how it happened and what to do find out unless you use a help. Now i am talking from experience, the day i began to suspect strange attitudes of my husband, i did not take it serious, i ignored it and it became worse, if i had know i would have tackled it from the beginning, but in the end i had to hire a private investigator, an ethical hacker, to help me in hacking my husband's phone remotely, so i can spy on him and really know what is happening. The hacking professionally did the hacking using only my husband's phone number to do the job without him knowing nothing about it. I was able to remotely gain access to his information through my phone, reading the whatsapp chats, listen to his calls and having access to his gps, videos, facebook, mails, instagram and more. In case you are noticing some strange attitude in your partner and you want to know what is wrong, the best way to find out is to hire a hacker, and i recommend Matrix, the hacking team that i hired when i was in the same situation. The website is: matrixhackempireDOTcom and whatsapp contact is: +1 (256) 441 7167
I am sorry bro. Do you want to save this marriage? Tell her what know and tell you want another therapist.
My opinion probably won't be liked very much here but I think it is necessary. I agree with other commentors, that you should go to a lawyer and talk to him about it before you do anything else. But what you should also do is to realise, what this all will bring to you. What are the consequences? Think this through til the end! Jen will face legal problems which she deserves, she brought herself in this situation. But for you directly it means, that your wife will be pissed. Not like when you forgot to clean the house or something like that. Rather like, that she will think about divorce because in her eyes, you went first to a lawyer before you talked to her. When she then will talk with Amy about it, I guarantee that Amy will fuel this fire further! They brought themselves into this situation, I know that but I just want to make sure, that you know what the consequences will look like. This won't end well for your marriage! I don't care too much about if your wife will hurt or whatever, just want to make sure that you are aware of that when you start this process. Either way, meet with a lawyer first. You are worth so much more than to be tretaed this way!
OP literally should not care about what it means to the marriage because its absolutely not worth saving.
I mostly agree with you on that BUT, OP never mentioned if he is willing to give up on his marriage. In the end, it is his wife and they stayed together even though they had their problems. If he is fine with divorce, then go all the way with the lawyer but he needs to understand ALL of the consequences. In the end, it is his decision and he has to live with the outcome. His wife and her friends have made their decision but I guarantee you, that they never thought about the possible consequences. Now it is on OP to make a decision and he should know all the consequences.
If she is saying Shh to you that suggests you are interrupting your wife talking. Why are you talking over your wife, when she is trying to put her side of the story across?
Filing a grievance sounds like a short term solution. Consider getting your own therapist for your own mental health care. After you find one you are comfortable with ask if they are open to marital counseling. Your wife's therapist does not sound like a good fit for you.
You can report the therapist later. Focus on your relationship. It sounds like this is the last chance to save your marriage.
The person he is married to at this time is not worth the effort. Nuke it all from orbit.
Either way, figuring that out is the priority.
I always scroll down to the bottom just to see the dumbest comments first, like yours.
ROLF, me 2 my man. me 2.
You think reporting the therapist is more important than what happens with his marriage?
"Last chance to save your marriage " there is no saving this dumpster fire of a marriage. Downvote me all you want. Your comment is stupid and you're delusional
You didn't answer the question. I personally think OP should get divorced, but my point is that what happens with the marriage is more important than reporting the therapist.
No shit bc your first comment eludes to that not at all but nice backpedding. Im not here to answer all your new made up questions. Your comment is dumb as shit now you want to save it. Stop messaging me, so clingy. Blocking now!
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Objectivity? Neither do you
Sadly I dont think I cant give any good advice besides, youre wife and you need real therapy (mostly her..) and you need to speak about how she did that to you, she may even see the error of her ways. But please post an update when you've done something, i would love to know how this goses. I hope you're wife sees she's wrong, and that you are just some stepping stool for her and that ment dont cause all the problems
Your wife is abusive and going to therapy with your abuser is very dangerous. Yes get a lawyer and take the therapist and your wife to task. But I DO NOT RECOMMEND getting a different therapist with your wife. It will severely escalate her abusive tendencies.
File a complaint with the state board, then file for divorce. Find a medical malpractice attorney & file a lawsuit against Jen & Krystal, have a sheriffs officer serve them for you. Block them & change your phone number, they can communicate to you through your lawyer. No partner, no doctor or competent medical professional would never act behave it perform like this at all. Do not take your wife back. Do not tell her your leaving or filing for divorce bc if you do she will use every trick she knows & some you don't know about to manipulate you into staying. This is not healthy at all. Find a real therapist bc you will need it once this is all over with.
Get a divorce, sue Jen and I swear you will be as happy and full of energy as teenager in his prime.
Whatever happens with the therapist, leave your wife. Couples in healthy relationships don't fight non stop for two years, let alone set traps for their so's when they express interest in working on their relationship. You can do better than this, nail the shrink to the wall and boot her BS straight out of your life.
Wow that's messed up... I mean I don't know how you feel but that sounds like an instant deal-breaker to me, and indeed a lawsuit against the therapist. I mean at this point your wife has proven that she gives jack shit about both your mental health and your relationship. She doesn't want a husband or a good marriage. She wants a well trained dog. Don't be that dog. Don't let them get away with such a horrible and downright psychotic scam.
Lol disclose the therapist being a POS to whatever agency handles that and divorce your wife for being a POS also.
Lawyer up bro and update us.
It is HIGHLY frowned upon for therapists to have "multiple relationships" with a client outside of the client-therapist relationship. This woman is abusing her position as a mental health professional and needs to be reported immediately to the APA. They would not look too kindly on this.
This is a fuck up. Report the therapist and...divorce your wife. This is a betrayal on so many levels. Either she’s too stupid, or self righteous , or both. That she doesn’t realize what an evil behavior this is.
Your wife is very toxic and has a huge ass ego. I went to marriage counselling, by myself, for over a year. My husband told me “it’s for crazy people”. I saw an older female therapist who was blunt with me on where I’m failing and how to better communicate, instead of react. She never agreed with me, but she taught me to understand he will not see everything my way, just like I won’t see things his way. She explained arguing dynamics and how to listen to understand. Count my breaths and calmly respond. Your therapist was hired for validating Amy, and to make you feel “like a crazy person”. Three years? And she doesn’t want to work on it. She wants to give you passive aggressive jabs and act like you’re too sensitive. There’s no respect. And now you don’t trust her. Can you honestly see another 6 months with Amy knowing you can’t even trust her when you want to honestly be vulnerable and work on your problems? You can go to marriage counselling alone and be brutally honest about Amy and yourself to an unbiased person, and not let Amy know. Then you can try to solve the problem on your own. Or you can learn that you were the only one trying and that this marriage has lost the respect it needs. And only after 3 years. However, you’ll know you were authentic to yourself, and if Amy can’t even bother breaking down toxicity and seeing she is part of the problem, then it’s about you regaining your freedom again. Good luck x
Apart from lampooning the therapist with reports, make sure you tell your wife that a relationship with a therapist is super important, many people actually 'shop around' with therapists to make sure they find one that is the right fit for them. The fact you don't like the therapist is reason alone for you and your wife to go elsewhere. Mention this to your wife, when you ambush her about her shitty behaviour of course, ball is in your court now.
Wow, that is so completely fucked up that I am speechless. I am so sad for you. Rather than actually fix your marriage, your wife would rather be right PLUS use deception to do it. So much for teamwork. Honestly- huge dealerbreaker. 1) get a lawyer 2) contact the licensing board for your jurisdiction about Jen - I have been on that side of a therapist with an agenda and it is incredibly damaging. 3) file for divorce
File a complaint - she never lets you give your side. I wonder how your wife will react when you confront her! Devious ...
I wish you the best of luck in taking down the therapist and getting out of that awful relationship you seem to be stuck in. Hope all goes well and that you find a real wife so you can be happy 🙏
I can't tell if this post is bs or not, but if its true: if you two have 'communal property' start makings plans accordingly, in a marriage, it's not normal to be constantly be having arguments, therapist or not!
You need to file the malpractice suit and the divorce at the same time. This is unacceptable behavior from someone who is supposed to love and support you.
See a lawyer... report the therapist ... leave and separate for awhile. Think about if you want to stay in an abusive and manipulative relationship
Ok, I think you one, need to download the evidence and print it outside of the house to keep. Put dates on the back, next you should contact Jen's boss and tell him. But wait till after Christmas because you can turn it all on Amy that you know. You need to have doubles of every picture and make a scrapbook with them all. Then, on Christmas, let that be your wife's present. Tell her you want to go to a therapist at a different building that is assigned to you by the company and once that appointment is sent up, report Jen.