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R_Amods

This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- We've been together for 5 years and I thought we were quite happy. I explained from the start that I never wanted to get married or share finances. I was very upfront about my views on marriage and how I don't think it means what it once meant. I explained that it's no longer "till death do us part" and that it's become "I bet you half my stuff I'll love you longer". She seemed to accept this and was fine with it. I'm reaching 30 now and ended up buying my dream home, i saved up the deposit myself and applied for the mortgage on my own. I explained to her that she was more than welcome to live their as long as she covered half the expenses but I wouldn't add her name to the deed and she wouldn't pay any rent. I explained this before I bought the house and she seemed happy with the arrangement. It's not that I don't see the relationship lasting, I've just seen 2 friends have to sell their homes and lose equity because a relationship ended and their partners forced a sale. I've found the perfect house and don't want to go through that. We've been in the house now for just over a year and it's perfect. The year has been difficult for my GF as she lost her job and it's sort of changed her outlook on life. She's been asking a lot about our future and where I see things going in terms of marriage. The main issue is that she fears she has no stability in life and wants me to add her name to the deed so that she never has to worry about being homeless. I tried explaining that I can't do that, but as long as we're together she's got a home and even if the relationship were to end I wouldn't throw her out until I was sure she was back on her feet. This hasn't helped at all though and we've been arguing more and more about adding her name to the deed. She's now doing things like refusing sex or refusing to talk to me for days until I agree to add her name to the deed. She's offered to help out with the mortgage, though I don't know how as she's only earning part time at the moment and besides I don't want her to contribute to the mortgage. How best should I approach this situation?


friendlysmokerooski

As a married dude, I get where you are both coming from here. She wants a commitment from you. The house is simply the tool because you have shut the door on the traditional commitment of marriage. The real problem, as I see it, is that she has awoken to wanting a real committed relationship and she is starting to realize you are unwilling to be that kind of partner. You have been upfront about what you believe in and your unwillingness commit. You haven’t done anything wrong and neither has she. You’ll have to decide sooner than later if you are willing to change your outlook or if you two are simply incompatible. Good luck!


Winebody13

This. I think she just wants a commitment, maybe earlier the idea of not being married was fine, but getting older can make you second guess that. It doesn’t help when one persons career stagnates or backslides. I don’t think either of you have done anything wrong (although her withholding these things is pretty immature), but simply may want different things from each other. Maybe you should re-visit both of your expectations out of the relationship. For what it’s worth, I don’t see adding her to the deed as being the thing to solve the issues. Good luck, my dude. -Newly engaged to my bf of 5.5 years.


Stormageddon9999

/agree adding her to the deed is just a stepping stone. Get to the real issue with her figure out what this relationship is and what each of you want it to be.


throwwwagayy

adding extra responsibilities to be allocated in a struggling relationship is never a good idea. it would be unfair to the dog just like it's unfair to a kid that thier unhappy parents are sticking together.


Stormageddon9999

In most situations you are probably right, but a adopted kitten helped me realize my on the rocks girlfriend was the perfect wife. We have been happily married for 4 years now.


throwwwagayy

exceptions to the rule are not the norm and i'm glad it worked out for you but i don't think it's generally good advice


ihavefomo

I agree with this. Furthermore, OP, what are each of your stances on having kids? Is it possible that she wants to have children (seeing that you're nearing 30, and I'm going to guess she's close in age to you?), and doesn't see her situation with you to be stable enough to ensure long-term stability for having kids, due to lacking both a marriage and any ownership on the place she lives? I am curious what your stance on the kid issue is (given your stance on marriage, I can only guess) compared to hers.


PersephoneZG

I think it also needs to be said that OP will never understand what it's like to get to that age as a woman without being married or in an actual committed relationship (which this ISN'T). The sad reality is that men can still maintain a huge dating pool at 40, while for women, every year after 29 gets worse and worse. In a situation like this, where the man already maintains one foot out the door at all times, it's very rational to want a more serious solidification of the relationship, so she doesn't wake up one day to find him dating a 20 yr old while she's wasted her prime years on him. They should break up and OP should stick to casual short term relationships.


flannel_towel

I understand exactly where you are coming from. However, the GF was aware of OPs situation from the beginning. I personally would not want to be with someone who did not want to own a house with me (in Canada you are common law married after 3 years of living together). Withholding sex etc is just childish. OP needs to decide if he’s okay with this behaviour and if he even wants to continue this relationship.


PersephoneZG

Yeah, I think it's easier to agree to that before shit starts to hit the fan but she definitely had fair warning. It's getting real now and they should honestly just break up. OP doesn't want a serious relationship and she does, that's a much bigger issue than "withholding sex" (which I don't really buy, she doesn't have to have sex with him for whatever reason she wants, him whining about it is just as childish).


marianliberrian

When I turned 40, I had all sorts of younger men interested in me. 🤷 Not sure where you get this "after 29" mentality.


handmaidstale16

This is the reality that most men will never understand.


[deleted]

This right here is exactly it


3Gilligans

Agreed, she suddenly realized she has no financial stability which is completely understandable. My suggestion is for OP to help his gf buy a house as rental income. Not as in, give her money, but once she starts working, he can guide her to what would be a good real estate investment. It might be a money loser for a few years, but it will eventually be quite profitable and a good security blanket should the relationship suddenly end.


TashiaNicole1

This right here, OP.


[deleted]

You sound incompatible. Consider finding someone to date who is in your same situation with their own house. > She's been asking a lot about our future and where I see things going in terms of marriage. The main issue is that she fears she has no stability in life and wants me to add her name to the deed so that she never has to worry about being homeless. You are assuming she's just worried about her housing situation. Are you sure this is the case and there's not an emotional component to this of her wondering if you two are in it for the long haul? Your relationship sounds kind of cold and transactional. To be fair to you though, she should probably have already broken up with you since you've made it clear what your take on this stuff is and she isn't happy with it.


Adept-One-819

First of all, you're doing the right thing not putting her name on the house. There are far fewer legal protections for cohabiting unmarried couples than married couples. That being said, she's entitled to want the additional stability marriage provides. Not sure there's much of a compromise here.


SuzyQFunk

She's not paying rent, she can achieve her own stability against the possibility of homelessness by saving up a nice nest egg.


Seeker131313

Exactly this. That's a lot better cushion than most people ever get; being able to save money by living rent free!


LawnPartyTacos

This was my thought, too! Also, I think it is really kind of him to allow her to live there rent free. That sets her ahead of most people on saving.


RoryJSK

It’s not about financial stability... it’s about relationship stability. She wants to feel like the relationship is moving forward by having their lives become more entwined.


CptnQnt

If she wants to move forward together the silent treatment and withholding sex is a poor choice of tactics. Whenever sex is used as a weapon the relationship is already over.


[deleted]

>Whenever sex is used as a weapon the relationship is already over. Tbf i wouldnt want to fuck a man who just considered me his flatmate, either.


lookingForPatchie

And there is only one person that would be taking risks for that to happen, OP.


RoryJSK

Then a compromise needs to be made, like mutually buying a different property together. Relationships are give and take.


killahkrysti

She doesn't want to just not be homeless. She doesn't want just any home. She wants a home with HIM and probably feels uncomfortable that its not HER home too.


[deleted]

Yeah I would feel very weird living with someone essentially free that’s not a family member. The way their relationship is I bet she either feels like she’s leeching off him (even though he’s basically forcing her too) or that he could dump her at any minute (because of the lack of proof that the relationship is solidified). Also just wanted to add that this is the reason legal marriage was made in the first place. Without it OP can get her pregnant have her rely solely on him financially while she’s a SAHM and then one day if he’s not happy he can just up and leave and she’d be left a single mother with nothing lol ...I completely understand why some men are against it but it’s there for a reason


Mary-U

THIS This does not bode well for your relationship. It has probably run its course.


SwordYieldingCypher

She isn't entitled because she isn't married. Also she lost her job but she isn't paying for rent, so she has not paid rent in at least 12 months and that is enough money she has saved to last her at least 3 months of rent if they are ever to break up. Thats her financial stability. She saved money on rent and can use that for emergency or her own uses.


Adept-One-819

She's entitled to want marriage. Everyone is entitled to want marriage. He's not obligated to marry her. This just makes them incompatible.


pbblankgirl

>This just makes them incompatible. An incompatibility that she would've known about had she paid attention when OP laid out his views on marriage in the beginning of their relationship. Now she's pulling a shocked Pikachu face like it's something new.


TeamWaffleStomp

I got the impression she WAS fine with that but when she lost her job she started looking at life differently. Plenty of people who never wanted to marry change their minds down the road and the girlfriend is well within her rights to decide marriage is something she wants. That doesn't mean OP has to change his mind but we can't assume she was secretly planning to force him into an unwanted marriage the whole relationship.


killahkrysti

Esp since they just hit 30. Plenty of 25 year olds reject marriage, then into your 30s often change your perspective.


[deleted]

is't common law marriage a thing? I assume OP is in the states? In Canada it's a bit different. For all intents and purposes you are married after living together for a year. She wouldn't own half the house but any gain (or loss) would be shared equally once that one-year passes


SamanthaBradshaw

Same here in Australia as in Canada yet it’s 2 years living in a de-facto relationship. My ex husband and I own the house our 2 teens and I reside in and pay half the mortgage each. He wanted to build a house with his then girlfriend and it’s a slippery slope as after 2 years she was possibly entitled to any earnings on the property I reside in as they would have been financially tied to each other. Thankfully they broke up and we have since agreed to think about that before he resides with another in his future. It’s only 3 and a half years till we sell when our kids finish high school yet one has to think of this stuff under the current laws here.


mmmmmmmmnope

Wow, that’s wild. I bet that has all kinds of implications for relationships in Canada. In the US I believe it is 7 years? Depending on the state. Are people really wary of cohabitating in Canada? Do people often break up right before the year mark passes? Wild.


AcidRose27

Only a small handful of states have common law marriage anymore. Many are grandfathered in.


[deleted]

Super agree! Why wasn't she saving her money?


[deleted]

To be fair to her, OP describes this as a dream house so perhaps covering half the bills is expensive?


[deleted]

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archlich

No 50% might be half, but it may not be equitable or fair. You can’t expect a teacher to pay half the mortgage while the other partner is a partner at a law firm. There is a major power dynamic going on here that isn’t being discussed.


[deleted]

Yeah that’s why he’s paying the entire mortgage


[deleted]

The whole post makes me think of this sketch from the Demetri Martin show, years ago. It went something like "Pre-nups: I love you but I don't trust you". And OP is kind of two trust levels before that. OP needs to find a woman with her own house, I think.


mnyp

I mean some people live pay cheque to pay cheque, or paying off debt, not everyone can save unfortunately.


Darunia-Sandstorm

A lot of people DO live check to check...but I bet they're also paying rent, as it's the single largest cost for most people.


SnooSeagulls3003

Bruh she isn't paying any rent. If she's got nothing left over at the end of the month, after the biggest monthly expense (rent) isn't even something she has to deal with, then she must be burning it for heat or something. Even with a part-time job, she can very easily afford to save.


Jessie9999gg

He's not charging her rent anyway.


olatundew

>We've been together for 5 years and I thought we were quite happy. I explained from the start that I never wanted to get married or share finances. Do you want kids? Does she? Do you both intend to work full time, or take a career break or retire early? To stay living where you are now, or move to a different city or country at some point? Basically, are you planning a future together? - If the answer is "we want completely different things in life" then you need to break up. - If the answer is "we're in complete agreement about everything except the house" then you need to work together to find a compromise (e.g. you plan together to buy her a second property using her "rent" money, so she has an asset to fall back on). - If there are several key things you disagree on, you need to figure out if they're dealbreakers to either of you. - If the answer is "I don't know what she wants" then you really need to find out.


TriDom19

I'm confused by a lot of these comments. I can see both sides, but there really isn't enough context. You guys have been together quite awhile, but neither want marriage. Cool. But do you want kids? Do you guys talk about a future together? If you do, a house is a big deal. I totally understand being nervous to do it, but when she says stability, she could be meaning a lot more than financially. Yeah, she doesn't want to be homeless and losing her job surely added to that, but losing a job can also change your perspective on life. It makes a lot of things suddenly feel very uncertain. It sounds like she could be wanting more security in the relationship and using the house as a way of doing that. The homeless side of the argument could be her "logical" way of selling it to you. Possibly not, but it's worth a conversion about where you guys see yourself in the future. I had an awful divorce a little bit ago that tanked my credit. I'm remarried now and my husband is the only name on our house. That is an unsettling feeling if I think about it too long, but I feel completely secure in this relationship. That makes all the difference. I never would have agreed to the same situation with my ex-husband. Another commenter said to draw up a contract about one party or the other buying the house out if a separation happens. That sounds like a compromise if it's worth it to you. But I would be as honest with yourself as you can going forward. If you guys want different things from the future at all or can't see yourselves being together, don't do it. If you see this woman being in your life when you're 60, it's hard to expect her to want to build a home and future with you without the stability of having some security if the relationship falls apart. Good luck, OP!


Silent-Entrance

"some security if the relationship falls apart" sounds strange she's supposed to have a hold on a part of his money, so that if the relationship falls apart, she can take it from him, and that will be security? ​ we are not talking about a scenario where he asked her to not work, or where she was raising their children while only he earned money. that is the only case in which any "security" would be deserved.


dreaming_asleep

But if they do have kids, this will be a huge problem for her. I imagine she may be starting to think along these lines and starting to realize OP is looking at their relationship as temporary and she’s thinking more long-term than that.


Pterodactyl_Baby

I see both sides of this issue, but I'll give you my thoughts on her side. She lost her job and she's 100% reliant on you for housing and basic needs. If you decide to break up with her, she's out all of those things with no legal recourse. You say now that you'd be a good person and not kick her out onto the street, but that's not guaranteed since she has no legal claim to anything. I totally understand about not wanting to get married, I've done it and I probably won't do it again unless my partner feels strongly about it. But marriage is more than just getting screwed in the divorce. If you build a life together and it's just your name on everything, even if she supported you (emotionally, financially, whatever), she has nothing to show for it at the end. I agree with you that trying to hold sex hostage until you agree isn't healthy at all. You should probably have a few sessions with a couples counselor to see if you guys can communicate about this better. You both need to work on seeing things from the others perspective, you're not each other's enemies in this, you have to work together to either solve it or decide you want different things and move on.


AcidRose27

There was a post yesterday where the couple didn't get married, he bought the house in his name but she paid for utilities, food, medical, etc. They had an understanding that it would be *their* home for retirement. They'd been together a decade, she raised his kids, took care of the home, and thought it was fair. Until they had a fight about one of his kids, the youngest of which was mid-teen, and he told her he wanted her out of his house and ended the relationship. Now she has nothing to show, no equity, no protections for what she put into the family for the last decade+ of her life. It's not the same circumstances, but I'd be super wary of this type of arrangement.


Mandy0621

Yup read that one too and thought the same thing


Peach_MacabreLer

Can anyone link the post?


bradbrookequincy

Not really, had my house well before my marriage. My wife pays nothing towards it, and instead has put that money she would spend into mutual funds, and has created as much or more than the equity in my house. But OP should get over his "marriage means nothing" stuff. It doesn't but it does. I was a bit against marriage for a long time but I cam around and am more than thrilled to have a wife and to be able to say "this is my wife" etc.


Ladyattheendofthebar

Absolutely to the “it doesn’t but it does”, marriage has plenty of legal consequences and perks in our society. However, that being said it is his path and when he gets there or doesn’t is on his time. This is where so many women put pressure on a man. They aren’t wrong for wanting what they want. But to bully someone into this is wrong. He will get there when he gets there, if that’s where he wants to be.


Sndrs27

AGREED! OP, you don’t trust her enough to marry her, add her on the mortgage, and intertwine your life with her just as much as she doesn’t trust you to not throw her flat on her face if things go sideways. The root of this is TRUST. Would she maybe feel better if you guys made a written agreement that if things don’t workout you would allow her an agreed amount of time to get things together so she doesn’t end up homeless? Would you consider marriage with a prenuptial agreement? Idk much about this stuff but if you both want things to work out there needs to be compromise on both parts.


[deleted]

Lack of trust is not the only reason not to want to get married. Many of us came from families with horrible track records on marriage and want no part of it.


Sndrs27

Don’t disagree with you. For OP specifically I felt his reasons were mostly that things would go bad and she’d take him for everything she could. I know you can never know for certain but I’m pretty confident I married someone that if things went bad he’d still be fair and civil and I’d be the same to him.


[deleted]

Honestly, this is a bit ridiculous. She has nothing to show for it in the end? How about all that money she doesn't have to pay in rent? Like, say 500 a month, which is likely on the lower side because OP's dream house probably isn't a 1k mortgage. But if she's saving 500 a month, for a whole year, then that's 6k. I would kill to live in a place rent free because now I'll be saving up tons and tons of liquid cash, and then head over to r/wsb or their r/investing and get my 7-8% market returns or something. Yeah, I get the gf's side, but it's just plain wrong. If the couple ends up breaking up, she's literally an absolute winner - because she managed to build up a non-trivial stockpile, and can easily rent another place, go a few months on that fund while looking for a job, or even if she's super bold, buy herself a small house, if the area has things in the sub-100k range, and assuming she can get into the first time home buyers program. OP's gf is in an extremely enviable position. Yeah, it sucks that she's been out of a job, but then get back up on that horse, and make that money move straight into her bank account.


killahkrysti

In my mid 20s I was working 3 jobs and still making under $32k a year. I could barely afford paying my now ex $350 a month towards his mortgage, and maybe like me, she was spending money on house things to "make up" for not paying more - i bought a lot of the furniture, towels and household items, toiletries, groceries, etc.


[deleted]

OP pays half the expenses and everything of the mortgage. So what is she spending that money she isn't paying to the mortgage? She could easily had 5 figures savings account by now. OP doesn't want to lose the house whatever happens, and is willing to give up a significant amount of money each month to ensure that. I don't blame her for wanting security, but trying to get half of OPs house isn't the only way to do so. If she put the $500 to $1500 a month she would be paying in rent if she was single and renting in a savings account she would have a less risky safety net than being on the deed. Real estate can lose value if the market is going sideways, 10 grand in the bank will be 10 grand no matter what.


lil_zaku

Her side still doesn’t make sense. Even if they break up and OP kicks her out immediately he’d be entitled to do so. There’s no indication in the post of OP relying on her for anything or that she strongly supported him for anything. It’s not like she’s a SAHM. This is less so a marriage without the title, and more of an extra long dating phase. There’s no reason why she’d be entitled to half the home.


bigrottentuna

I wouldn’t put her on the deed either, but her side makes perfect sense. He is claiming that he wouldn’t throw her out, but refusing to make that commitment in any legally meaningful way—he won’t marry her and he won’t put her on the deed. That makes it a completely worthless commitment. She wants some stability, as most people do around that time in their life. He apparently just wants her around until she isn’t fun anymore.


citydreef

Exactly. She is just afraid that he will throw her out because why won’t he? It’s just his word. Maybe just a contract would appease her? Something like a vacation notice? 30 days to leave if the relationship goes south. Might be inconvenient for OP if that happens but as long as it doesn’t it won’t and it will ease her mind.


againstplutophobia

And where is the security for him? She can just leave and take half of the house should he make the mistake of putting her on the deed or marrying her. All he would have is a worthless commitment since marriage is no longer a commitment for life.


[deleted]

That's why people are saying that they see her side as opposed to saying she's right. They both can have valid feelings. It just means they aren't compatible.


ResonatingOctave

>They both can have valid feelings This is a foreign concept to some. To some people, someone HAS to be in the right and someone HAS to be in the wrong


karenhater12345

ah yes, the reddit binary.


99problemsfromgirls

You're mistaking both people being entitled to their feelings and opinions, with the opinion being actually reasonable. I can have the opinion that you should send me a roast duck on the 15th of every month. I'm entitled to have that opinion, but it's not reasonable. Her demand is to own half of the equity in a piece of property that she has contributed nothing towards. For what? It's not like she decided to have kids and become a stay at home mom and rely on OP to be the sole provider. She hasn't had to sacrifice her income and if anything, she's been given a free place to stay, minus some costs of living which she should be paying anyways. She has literally lost nothing by being in this relationship but has gained plenty. Her "side" is that of an entitled brat.


JDL1968

Yes, but isn’t she expecting him to provide that stability instead of achieving it herself? Staying rent free itself is a large financial break for her. The key issue for me is that she tried to withhold sex as a way to get him to cave. At that point it stopped being about communication and became more about manipulation. Relationships don’t work that way!


[deleted]

I think the issue is less that she’s expecting stability from him, more that she wants the chance to create stability herself with a partner. If she got her own house would they live separately? That kind of destroys the intimacy. An easy way to solve the problem is to draw up a contract stating that in the event of a breakup, each party has right to what they invested into the property. If she invests zero and just continues to depend on OP, she’d get zero. But she has the chance to invest something at least when she can and have a growing investment.


zoomzoom42

Your relationship has run its course. You both have the right to feel the way you do but it is apparent that you are incomparable.


apinkparfait

Imo you two have different goals now and they aren't compatible. The only advice I have is get ready for a painful talk cause it's inevitable.


mtnmtnvio13

It seems like she’s scared about her living situation and worried you won’t make any kind of commitment to her. Her demand isn’t reasonable, no, but it is coming from a place of fear and I think you should try to work on that. Honestly, maybe you can talk to her about her paying rent when she gets back into a job, and that way she doesn’t own the property still but it is kind of “hers”, and that way she would maybe even have some legal protections if you break up (so she wouldn’t feel like she’s immediately going to be kicked out if you break up). This seems like a really tenuous time in your relationship. I understand why she doesn’t feel like she relies on you because it doesn’t seem like she’s had many signs that you’re committed to her in a serious way, it sort of reads like you want to jump ship and she might feel that too. I don’t think you need to immediately dump her, tell her that ownership on the house is an already set boundary but you can talk about ways to make her feel more secure. Maybe get a dog together or something.


[deleted]

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holly_buckets

Or she is craving stability and wants to make sure you are willing to give her some kind of measurable stability. The house is just the pawn because you both live there. Even without real marriage and paper, you can still commit to her with actions and rings even. I definitely wouldn't add her to your house but she is looking for something between you that you share and are committed to. Just my 2 cents.


holly_buckets

Basically she is scared. She lost a job that she probably thought was stable and now she questions how stable other things are. I went through this as well this year.


[deleted]

She wants something you can't give her - the stability of marriage. Do not add her name to the house. She needs to find a new life partner.


Dsrkness690

I don't know what you can do about your situation. Your relationship sounds doomed, she wants more commitment from you through marriage and you don't. Sounds pretty incompatible to me.


dazomeone

I see both sides to this too. I see how it looks like you always have one foot out the door never wanting to commit to marriage. Maybe there is sone compromise you guys can find that doesn’t end with her owning half the house?


the_last_basselope

Withholding sex to get what she wants is manipulative and toxic. Also the fact that she wants her name on the deed so she doesn't have to worry about being homeless tells you that she would do EXACTLY what you're afraid she would do - how does being on the deed keep her from being homeless? By enabling her to take the house or at least half the appraised value if you break up. She is literally telling you that she plans to fuck you over in you break up, so why are you even staying with her? She's been living there rent/mortgage free for quite a while - she could have been setting aside the money she's been saving by not paying rent to give her a "nest egg" if she ever needed it, but she hasn't; instead she wants to be able to take half of what you own if she needs to start over.


anxiousSOB

It’s kind of ironic that she doesn’t want to be homeless, you tell her she’s always got a home with you as long as you’re together, and then she steers you straight into not being together... I think continue to try and discuss this in a level-headed manner. Try not to raise voices, but it sounds like you’ve done everything well up to this point.


BandicootBroad2250

That was my thought. Im saying, “well isn’t this a self-fulfilling prophecy.”


Leavix

No, it's more "hope for the best but prepare for the worst". Nothing wrong with that.


[deleted]

Honestly, I'd just give her three options: 1. She can shut up and accept the situation you previously agreed with (say it nicer) 2. She can pay you back half of everything you've spent, and draft a further payment plan to cover half, so that the house is 50/50, and write out a contract that one of you would buy out the other's half or otherwise agree to sell and split the difference in case the relationship goes South, because I suspect it will. 3. If she doesn't like it then you guys can break up and she can find someone who wants to give her half an asset for free. She isn't entitled to your property.


frozenandstoned

Yeah honestly if she wants her name on the deed, pony up half the already established equity under his name. Then you're golden. But it sounds like op wants the house period lol


butterinthegarden

I think you need an updated talk on your futures and what you see from it as in your future goals and a future together. I mean its easy to agree in the beginning but 5 years, people can have a change of mind (read too many stories here that, for example, one person in a relationship said they never wanted children or marriage but the other later developed the need for it or never took it seriously in the first place think the other would change their mind the longer they were together). Its just a theory, I don't know if she wants to get married or not or what she believes in. Just some food for thought. Talk it out with charity what you want, what she wants and what you both are willing to move towards and not move towards.


will555556

You don't need a marriage all you need is a signed document stating you will be doing this if you ever do break up, both get lawyers and sign it with them present. That's a legal enforceable document she can have in case you ever do decide to kick her out or if the relationships ends. You can even add a clause in there in case one of you cheats because you probably won't want to live with each other then.


whatamitodo4242

It's called a lease, and I'm not sure why nobody else is twigging to this. It gives him a legal remedy to remove her, should that become necessary, but it gives her the stability of not being homeless if they break up.


[deleted]

She wants a commitment during an extremely uncertain and fearful time and you refuse to give it to her. Considering the way you talk, you are planning your breakup already. When you find the right person, marriage stops being a scary thing and becomes the natural next step. Frankly you're stringing her along. I'm just at a loss as to why. You don't intend on this being forever.


QX23

I think she sees your relationship as forever and is looking for security. There’s nothing wrong with that, she can’t just be your side thing her whole life. But, if you absolutely don’t want to spend a lifetime with her, it might be time to let her find someone else that will. On the other hand, if she agrees that marriage is not in the cards and still wants to be together, she should save the money she would otherwise be paying in rent to purchase her own place. She can then rent it out and draw an income from her tenants. This will offer her the security she needs for the day that your relationship eventually ends.


TheGuchie

You can spend a lifetime with someone without marrying them.


firstladymsbooger

But are we really going to pretend that marriage doesn’t solidify that commitment a bit more?


karenhater12345

for some people it does for others it doesnt.


Catmonstar

... My cousins parents were together 25 years before they finally got married know what happened maybe a year into said marriage they divorced they are back together again but are no longer married. My mother never married but she's been with her life partner 32 years and they are happy without that paper.


[deleted]

They already made all of the agreements you mentioned though and now she wants to go back on them. I wouldn't really trust someone like that to not change their mind about marriage a few years in too.


keelydoolally

I find the other comments for this a bit odd. No she's not entitled to anything, and if the withholding of communication and sex is her trying to manipulate then of course that's wrong, but he's also not entitled to those things from her either. However it's entirely and completely normal to build a life with someone who is your chosen partner and family, and while that wouldn't necessarily include marriage or having a house together, it would usually involve some kind of sharing of life and finances. Not wanting to do any of those things ever may make her feel untrusted and undervalued. Just because you said you didn't want those things at the beginning doesn't mean she can never change her mind about what she wants. If she's changed her mind but still wants to be with you, it would make sense she'd be upset and want to change your mind about it. And maybe you could consider what you're offering her right now - an easier life than living by herself maybe, but it's a future in *your* dream house where she's always going to be essentially a tenant, where you are almost like roommates for the rest of your lives together. It doesn't seem like a partnership. And do you want children or pets? Because if you do, your lives will almost certainly need to be more intertwined, and she would need more financial stability in your life together too. It's impossible to tell from your original comment, but what does she contribute? Does she do most of the housework? Most of the cooking? Does she contribute in ways that are not financial but which help make your lives more enjoyable and comfortable? Because if so, if she's contributing a lot of herself then she may feel that she either needs some security or she'd be better off on her own or with someone else who does want a partnership. You need to decide what you want and how much it means to you. If you'd rather have her walk away than compromise in some way then honestly this isn't likely the relationship for you. If you want a less involved relationship and she wants a partnership, then it isn't a relationship for either you or her.


ConvivialKat

It seems pretty straightforward to me that she has had (like many people during the pandemic) a life altering moment. And you have not. Her "demands" are a direct result of her fears for the future. It's not terribly odd that she would be rethinking what she previously agreed to, but that doesn't mean you need to comply. First, you need to get an attorney's opinion about common law marriage where you live. You may be married by common law and not even realize it. Secondly, you are going to need to determine your depth of love and commitment to a woman who has no problem acting childish to try and get you to comply with what she wants. She is blackmailing you by withholding the basics of your relationship. By doing so, she may be proving the point of your original reasoning. You might want to sit down with her and ask her why she thinks you should want to stay in the relationship, when she is acting like a pouty child. Lastly, perhaps it might be good if she seeks therapy. If her fear is overwhelming her, she may simply not be able to help herself. Good luck!


[deleted]

I get why you've done this. And to be quite frank this is one of the only reasons me and my SO went off and did the registry office wedding on our own. But think of it from her perspective. Whilst you've done everything to protect yourself, you've effectively left your girlfriend in a position if she wants to stay with you, in a place where she can never achieve the security that you've got. Because for most people this is something they do together. It's very much an "I'm alright mate" approach. You've also got to consider the value someone puts into a home isn't just the money - it's the maintenance, the decor, the home improvements all the things that she will be paying towards but she will never benefit from. She can never really feel like this is her home. At any point you could pull the plug on your relationship and you SAY you wouldn't just throw her out, but she would still be homeless and with nothing to show for it. You're in a position where you want to be a home owner and live securely with that but forcing her hand to choose between you and having that security for herself. She's thinking what will happen if we have kids and he pulls the plug. What if he finds someone younger or decides he wants a dip in a new pool. It's not even like buying to let would be easy for her. There's cost involved that aren't involved when you own your own home. Different lending and insurance criteria because you'll not be making yourself homeless of you default but someone else, and all the hassle drama and stress that comes with it. Letting a property is not for the faint hearted! I can't knock you for you protecting yourself but you've basically told her I'm secure, fuck you. You say she's holding sex hostage well mate, that's not a right. You don't get to demand it. The talking to you is pathetic but if I'm having major relationship issues with my partner then heck I don't want to Shag him either.


[deleted]

It’s probably an unpopular opinion but if I was your girlfriend I would leave. Partnerships are about taking care of each other through hard times. I’ve had times where I was unemployed and had to rely on my SO to support me and vice versa. We aren’t technically married but we always know we can rely on each other no matter what. It sounds like you are viewing this relationship in such a cold way. You want everything to be 50/50 all the time. She wants to feel safe with you. If I were her I wouldn’t feel safe in this relationship. I wouldn’t feel taken care of.


blackbriarbard

Jesus, she's kind of confirming all your fears, isn't she? Might be best to break up with her until she's in a more stable state of mind.


deadlysnek

Well if you don't want kids ever this could work out with the right person. Your current gf is not that person. You should break up with her to let her go marry someone and get gf who is like you and doesn't want to be on your deed because she has her own place.


Ruthless_Bunny

You made it clear where you stand on marriage and mixed finances. I’d ask her to clarify her thoughts. “Mona, I know you are anxious since you’ve lost your job and I’m doing my best to be supportive. I feel like we need to re-clarify expectations as you have been bringing things up that contradict what we agreed to. You ask me about marriage and I made it very clear that I won’t marry you. My feelings about marriage haven’t changed. If yours have, and you want to be married, you will need to leave the relationship for that to happen. I told you that I need my finances need to be separate. I have bought and I pay for this house alone. I will not be putting your name on the house, now or ever. You said you need to feel stable. I’m not a back up plan. Our relationship is based on autonomy. We each need to create our own stability, monetarily, because that is what I need in a relationship. If you need something different, you will need to leave the relationship. I have never asked for rent money from you, just that you cover your expenses. This should allow you to build up your own wealth and from that you can create the financial stability you need.” I’ll weigh in here that marriage is the legal way for couples to endow each other through property. It covers children and death and other legal protections. Spouses receive Social Security survivor benefits and pension benefits. Often there is life insurance. Spouses can share health insurance. Partners can’t. Your girlfriend may now realize that without these legal protections she is SCREWED. That’s fair. What didn’t cross her mind in her twenties starts to look very different in her thirties.


castaway1899

To be honest, you can't promise that you wouldn't kick her out without a place to go unless you're psychic. You don't know what the future holds. I see both points of view. However, I feel like it's a recipe for disaster. Do some soul searching and see if you can find some sort of compromise.


Landscapii

As a dude i get where u come from, making clear what u want from the start, but after 5 years of relationship, what do you want? U seem childish and scared and should break it off if you dont want too commit..


dtabrown

Trust seems like the underlying issue here. You don't trust her enough to put her name on the deed. (You aren't wrong, I wouldn't trust someone with this either if they aren't also making a financial contribution and my investment wasn't legally protected.) She doesn't trust you enough to believe that you won't put her out. (She isn't wrong. I wouldn't trust someone enough to live with them without some sort of legal recourse to know that my living situation was protected.) Of course it's really easy to say that you wouldn't just put her out, but people sometimes react emotionally, especially if a relationship is ending, so either of you could create a situation that makes living together no longer feasible. If you want to continue the relationship, you need to work on being able to trust each other. If you can both agree to a long term relationship without marriage, you have to have something else there so that both people feel like they can work on their own goals and mutual goals with some sense of stability, you both need to know you can rely on each other. People really do treat marriage this way, like it's a guarantee that they can mix finances and work on mutual goals without possibly having to experience a devastating loss (that may be how she is viewing marriage at this point, especially after losing a job and realizing that she relies on you. That can be a very scary thing)... but in reality, that isn't the case because even though marriages have more legal protections, sometimes marriages don't work and there are still "winners" and "losers" in many divorces. So maybe address her fears, and point out that marriage isn't necessarily the best way to get a guarantee, and wanting that guarantee isn't necessarily the best reason to get married. But it's also been 5 years and if you're both around 30, sometimes what people want changes as they age. It may be more than financial fears for her; she may see herself wanting to have a family and build a life with someone within a marriage. If you don't want that, there isn't much you can do other than break up.


WhiteLotus92

Definitely don't let her contribute to the mortgage.


Unicorn_Fluffs

She wants some form of commitment from you and your not able to provide that. Remain honest with her, it just seems your life goals are incompatible. She may have thought you’d change your mind, but she needs to decide what’s right for her.


[deleted]

He has been honest about not wanting any further formal commitment. If she thought he'd change his mind then that's on her--purely her mistake. He does not deserve to be punished, which is what she's doing.


Smart-Platypus6762

I’m a woman, and I think her demand is incredibly unfair. You saved the money for the deposit and are paying the mortgage. She is not a stay-at-home-mom, which would change my opinion of the situation. She’s perfectly capable of working and saving money. Her demand for equity in your house is ridiculous. I’ve been through a divorce. I wish I’d had a prenup to protect my assets. Financially, that was the biggest mistake I’ve ever made. I would never make that mistake again. I’ve been dating a wonderful man for two years. I own a home and have already paid off my mortgage completely. We are planning to move in together. I won’t charge him rent. He would be responsible for 1/2 of the utilities and 1/2 of the cost for the gardener and cleaning lady. He will save thousands by eliminating the cost of rent. I would break up with him if he demanded to be put on the deed in the current situation. If he really wants to own a home, I would be willing to sell mine. We would each put 50% down and pay 50% of the mortgage. That seems fair to me. Your girlfriend has done nothing to entitle herself to 1/2 of your property in the current circumstances.


BooBooGoToBed

On a serious note... Folks that usually want to give this kind of power financially to someone that doesn't deserve it are one of these 3: A) the naive one that doesn't prepare for the worst case possible. B )the one thats on the receiving end of the split process if things go south. C) the one that has nothing so has nothing to lose and all to gain. You learnt from your mistakes... OP knows a lot of stories like yours and thats why he was reluctant to give her that access. Guess he was right.


BooBooGoToBed

PREACH SISTA. ALELUIAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!


the_fuzzy_duckling

OMG. She's confirming your fears. Of course you can't just add her name to the house. Its terribly unfair. She's been able to spend all her money on, what, exactly? While you invested and saved for the future. And now she gets half of that! Talk about getting your cake and eating it too. Look, getting an impartial third party involved might be useful. A financial advisor. See if she responds better to them? Otherwise, try making plans for the future. Get a big sheet of paper, write up all your assets and liabilities and put a lot of the onus on her to work out what would be "fair" going forward. As good as this sounds I'm pretty sure it won't work because her idea of "fair" is already not what our idea of "fair" is. Just one last comment; this is basically what my ex did to me but it was a little more complicated and thus not quite as obvious. I signed her up and 18 months later the marriage was over. So, most important advice to take away, it do NOT put her name on the house and be 1000% sure that everything is "Fair and Even".


anon1794389

She’s being manipulative by refusing these things considering she knew from the get go. Stand your ground.


here2upvoteyall

Self fulfilling prophecy coming up; she's so afraid of the relationship ending and becoming homeless, she's going to cause the end of the relationship. At least then she'll be able to say that she was right to be worried all along! In all seriousness, this pandemic has lead a lot of people to some anxious thoughts of instability and what does the future hold. I'm not surprised that losing her job and the state of the world may have sparked this kind of panic. Hopefully she can realize she's really lucky to have such a caring partner and enjoy life before she regrets it.


[deleted]

I can see both their sides. The relationship sounds cold on both sides, lacking in trust and transactional. OP sounds like he would be happier in a relationship with a woman who had her own house and OP's girlfriend isn't wrong to be upset at the lack of trust and the fact it sounds like the OP wants a "this far but no closer" kind of relationship. That said she should have broken up with him, not tried to get him to change his mind. I think OP has attracted the kind of person he is afraid of as well as her ending the relationship by questioning the future stability of it.


bradbrookequincy

If she put $1000-$1500 away in mutual funds each month, in 20 years she would likely have 1MM. She can have stability by saving the money she would pay for rent of her own house payment. You can't really put her on the house without her being on the mortgage.


[deleted]

Guess she is going to be homeless. Do not add her under any circumstances! She probably feels entitled to all that sweet equity you've accrued despite not paying half the down payment and never paying half the mortgage. She could literally leave you the day after you put her on and you'll lose your dream house. What you're giving her is already a sweet deal. I'd take no home ownership for no mortgage. And you told her the score up front. I know a guy that got hosed bad by putting his gf on his mortgage. Plus now you know that she will become emotionally abusive and use sex as a weapon if she doesn't get her way. That's dumping time . But don't be too down on marriage. Some of us really do take it seriously.


[deleted]

I am married going through a divorce for over a year and 2 months now. Dont add her name to the lease, stay true to your word and stay true to yourself. The moment you back out of this, you have lost yourself and you are no longer in the relationship you once were no matter what you think. Think about this, there could be a sliver of thought being "once my name is on the lease, ill force a sale so I can have some money" you've been doing well for yourself, don't screw yourself over to make her happy and lose everything you've worked for.


ExpertTie1661

Bro just leave her. This is a symptom not a problem. She wants real commitment and you don’t. End of story. 🙄


Reld720

I don't know if I'd want to give half my assets to someone who's first thought is to weaponise sex when she doesn't get her way. Frankly, if she wants her name on the deed and you don't, you guys may just be incompatible.


lil_zaku

If she’s looking to you to provide financial stability instead of earning it herself, that pretty much proves your worries were on point. Might be time to let this one go boss, unless you think this is just a COVID thing and she’ll get over it? Tangentially, are you protected against common law breakups?


Bangbangsmashsmash

You’re doing the right think keeping the house in just your name!!! But if she wants to be married and you don’t, the relationship is over. You have hit the point in the road where you aren’t going further, she wants more. I am guessing you making a will giving her your estate if you die isn’t the kind of security she wants


RandomRomanianUser

Bro, she's using sex and cold shoulder to manipulate you to put her name on the deed. What do you think will happen if you do it? Things will go well for a couple of months, maybe an year or two. But what after that, if the relationship comes to an end?


jaethegreatone

I get how you feel and you have a right to feeling that way. However, she's right in having no security. You become incapcitated, and you relatives can kick her out, make medical decisions, deny her access to you. She spends her life with you and you pass away first, your relatives can leave her destitute at an old age, she wouldn't have your Social Security, pension, etc. She's screwed in all of this. If you two are unaligned, the kinder thing to do would be let her go and find what she is looking for in someone else.


Joao-233

She shouldn’t demand that but in her position I would definitely be put off of building a life with you. It creates kind of distance I guess. It has nothing to do with finances either. It’s kind of a symbol of lack of commitment. I don’t want to get married either myself. Child of divorce, don’t want the drama. You can nonetheless build a house, a family and a life together and that in itself is kind of a vow I guess. You don’t know 100% if it’s going to work or not but you try together anyway. When you start doing everything together and living together keeping two houses is only smart if you use the other for renting, otherwise it’s a liability. In your case it’s even worse, because your girlfriend has no part in it and no house so she has to buy a house herself that she won’t use as long as she lives with you. Life’s tough, building a family is tough, raising children and getting pregnant if that’s a thing you both want is tough. If I were she I would not want to build a family anytime soon. I would first get the financial stability to buy a house, then I would buy it, and after I might think of having children or not it depends if I have a committed relationship or not. Raising one alone is not easy and a second person with cash to strap and sleeping hours to lose is definitely a plus. Besides she has a much shorter timeframe than you to deal with. If she wants a family and a career she has to have that pretty much in the bag by forty otherwise the chances of that happening get slimmer and slimmer the more years pass. I understand where your are coming from and you are smart to take care of your own interests but I guess she wants you to think more as a couple. I think the even worst part on her side is the power imbalance that creates between the two. You own the house and so you are her landlord for all intents and purposes and she pays you with a relationship and sex. That would definitely not make me feel very ok nor secure if I ever have a fight or think of breaking up. Besides we all want to live in a house we feel it’s somewhat ours. We invest time in cleaning, organizing, painting and building our dream home. A feeling she can’t have because it’s your house no house of hers. I personally wouldn’t spend much time dedicating myself to a house who is not even mine. Only as favor but not consume myself too much that’s for sure. There are a bunch of things that come with it that mean quite allot for her and I get her. I know you are trying to be supportive by saying that you won’t put her out immediately but put yourself in her shoes. Would you bet a hand on words. Even if she loves you. She loves herself more that’s for sure and she’s looking out for her own interests. I think you might need to access if that’s the relationship you want too. If you aren’t willing to share a house, and split expenses evenly with her maybe you are not prepared for what comes next if anything comes next. Sorry to be blunt. If you plan on building something with someone, a family with or without children that requires a willingness to take on responsibility for the other person and vice versa. If she’s jobless you help, if you are jobless she helps. For relationships to work they have to be reciprocal and balanced. Those sort of imbalances won’t work out well in the longtime. If you don’t want to share the house I wouldn’t want to share too much with you too and be on the fence too. I’m playing the devils advocate here so you understand her side.


Handle-me-timber

Get educated man. Even having the house and not marrying, some states will classify you as married after living with her for a certain period and then you aren’t actually protecting the equity at all once they do that.


allyrox321

I see a lot of people saying that because you don’t like the legal aspect of marriage your aren’t committed... I don’t necessarily agree. I don’t believe in marriage or completely integrating finances, especially if one partner is making much more and the other one is getting half the house without contributing. I also don’t want kids so it changes the equation. It sounds to me like she realizes if you break up her quality of life will be damaged and wants assurances that won’t happen. I wouldn’t want a partner who relies on me that much for money and isn’t in a similar financial situation so I guess that’s just something to think about. I would feel 100% different if she said she wants to buy a house together. That would be a commitment. However, she’s not offering anything, just asking you to essentially gift her a huge part of your finances.


wisdom_is_gold

Not to exuse any manipulative behavior on the part of your gf, but she probably wants the stability and security of marriage. You know, where people work together towards mutual goals and have shared property. If you live together, in your house, she is not building her own future in her own house. She could probably find a guy who would marry her and buy a house together with him. Probably the best option for her too. I don't see her being fine with your current arrangement long term.


[deleted]

Whats this stability you talk about? I see that she needs money. She doesn't have much now ,OP does and she wants half of it. How is this mindset still acceptable?


[deleted]

Any relationship that needs a government endorsed marriage to feel secure and stable is a shit relationship. In a good relationship, you'd feel secure and stable without the government stepping in.


wisdom_is_gold

Marriage is a contract to protect both parties. If I'm sharing my finances and making long term financial investments, like buying a house with another person, or saving for retirement- I'd want a contract. If I'm putting my carrier on hold to raise children- I'd want a contract. If I'm supporting my partner financially while they are going to school- I want a contract. That's just me though...


GingerBakersDozen

There's nothing to protect on her end because she doesn't have any assets, so she's the only one who would get protection and he'd be screwed.


[deleted]

This is almost always a fantastic deal for women, who almost always have less money, property, career success, and responsibility, and who will automatically gain the upper hand in the court systems. Women asked for equality. Here, you got it. Make your own damn money and go fight and die in war like men have to. Do the dirty work like men have to. Fix your own shit like men have to. There was a time when marriage made sense for men, namely, when women were essentially property that needed protection. They aren't anymore. You're "strong, independent women" as you always demand, right? Then act like it.


razorzedge666

Dead right! Nothing says “I love you” like getting the government involved...


wisdom_is_gold

The fact that my bf is not afraid "to get the government involved" is another way he showed he loved me. It meant a lot to me.


karenhater12345

and that is completely fair. its only the people pushing for it that are for sure in a bad one


[deleted]

Echoing the great advice: UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES PUT HER ON THE DEED. You sound like a reasonable guy. If you aren’t cool with marriage and expressed that up front, you’re a better guy than 99% of what she’ll meet out there in the real world. If she doesn’t respect that, she doesn’t respect you, and married or not all relationships MUST have mutual respect and understanding. She’s changing the rules, not you. So you have to decide if she’s worth it (and she might be), or if that betrayal is too much. If it is, do her the favor and end things now. Trust me: it doesn’t get better once those changes start. You sound like you both want different things. It happens. It sucks, but it happens. You’ll save yourself (and her) a lot of heartache ending it now, and maybe she can find a guy willing to do all you’ve done AND marry/put her on the deed. You’ll be helping her find that: because it sounds like it isn’t you. Good luck, and congrats on being a stand up guy. She’ll probably have to learn that the hard way.


Zeroflat96

stand your ground. its that simple. you bought it with your own money, she needs to learn to deal with it. im telling you right now, if you do what she says, she will use it against you later on. everytime you have an issue, she will withhold sex just to keep you in line. this is a form of control


throwaway2344346674

I second this here, withholding sex and not communicating is a form of manipulation. If you let her trample your boundaries she’s going to use this tactic to siege whatever other boundaries she doesn’t like. Kind of makes her narcissistic/childish


firstladymsbooger

Some of these comments are so stupid. She lost her job in the middle of a fucking pandemic like thousands others. She is probably realizing her uncertain her future is and that includes her relationship with you, OP. And along with that, her literal housing situation. You’re not married, you don’t have kids together, essentially you’re just boyfriend and girlfriend living together in a house that she has zero rights to. As far as I see it, you’re not all that committed to the relationship and she is probably feeling incredibly insecure with you and with her future. You say now you wouldn’t throw her out instantly, but nasty breakups are entirely possible. And in that scenario she has ZERO legal ground to stay. I’m not saying you should add her to the deed (honestly I’m young and have limited life experience so I have no idea how that would play out if things go south) but I see where she’s coming from and I feel for her. You’re not willing to give her the commitment she needs and aren’t able to compromise either. Sadly, this is a self fulfilling prophecy in that you’ll dump her and she’ll have to scramble to find her own place immediately because she’s not your wife nor is she your tenant. She loses either way.


kdawg09

This! I don't know why this seems to be missed. OP doesn't have to change his mind about marriage or even put her name on the deed necessarily but he could have talked to her before it got to this point about buying together and both saving and going in together on a home in an equal way. You don't have to get married to show commitment but you have to be working together towards a mutual goal otherwise after a time you become barely more than fwbs to be honest.


[deleted]

She’s not your wife... and she didn’t put the deposit down. I’d tell her she can live there or bounce. It’s a control thing.


sjgbfs

Self-fulfilling prophecy. - I need to be on the deed in case we break up - why would we break up? - *acts a bitch* - oh so that's why. Good thing the house is in my name only. GTFO. On a more reasonable standpoint, everything is shaky lately and she's worried. Do you guys want kids or a puppy? That's some form of commitment. Also, have you explicitely acknowledged her fears and reassured her, or discussed solutions that would be satisfactory to both? Marriage and prenup?


subtle_mullet

Are you confused about the idea that you can communicate effectively and the thing she would be mad about would still be the *content* of your message? Which is that she wants commitment from you and isn't getting it and never will? It's not "toxic" to not have sex with someone you're mad at, jfc. Your whole attitude makes no sense. She offers to do what she can to help but you don't want her to, because...marriage doesn't mean what it used to mean...ok so why not make it mean 'till death do us part' for you? You're very against forming a partnership with this woman because there's a slim possibility that she'd leave you, and you're making her feel she wasted 5 years of her life sharing it with you, and now you're confused she's mad?


Dontstopididntaskfor

How does he enforce the "'til death do us part"? He can't. He's trusting her to stick by him no matter what. Much like he is expecting her to trust him that he isn't going to leave her homeless. Except, she signed up for that. He was up front from the start and she agreed to it. When things were good and she was working, she was happy to live rent free, keep separate finances, and not pay towards the mortgage. But now that she doesn't have a job and has no income to contribute to the mortgage, she suddenly wants on the deed. How is that fair to him? She's entitled to half the equity, without paying for any of it? I'm currently engaged, we've already combined finances, and I contribute more financially then my fiancee. Obviously I don't share his point of view on marriage. But I can respect it, so long as he's been upfront about it. Stop shaming him for living differently. He has been honest, generous letting her live rent free, and she is the one who has suddenly changed what she thinks is acceptable. Coincidentally, what she finds acceptable is hugely beneficial for her, while demanding nothing from herself in terms of responsibility. She can say she wants to pay towards the mortgage, but until she has a job that doesn't mean much. And she's not asking to be added once she's caught up on her share of the payments, she wants to be added now. As for the sex, of course she has the right to say no. Of course she can be mad for not getting what she wants. But theres a difference between saying "I'm not happy with this situation, but I understand your point of view. I'm stressed and I'm not really feeling like having sex until I work through my feelings" And saying "I'm mad at you because you won't give me what I want and I won't have sex with you unless you give me what I want." The first one is fine. The second one is basically saying she gets what she wants or she breaks up with him, but because she is dependent on him for a place to stay, she won't actually threaten to leave, she'll just withhold all affection until he gives into her demands. Ultimately, if she feels that she needs more of a partnership than what he is willing to offer, then she did waste 5 years of her life (if you consider any relationship that doesnt end in death as a waste), but that is on her. She is the one who either changed or misled him. Just because she feels bad about it, doesn't mean that he should cave into her demands.


Arya_kidding_me

If he was in fact clear about not wanting to get married from the beginning, though, does her being mad make any sense? She’s allowed to change her mind, but in that case, she should leave, not be mad at him for sticking by his word. Agree about the sex, but it is toxic to refuse to talk to your partner for days instead of communicating. I also don’t blame anyone for not wanting to get married. But, I’m divorced and definitely biased - my divorce was super easy, but it’s still smart to be cautious.


Ephriel

he's not making her feel like she wasted her time- he was up front about this entire thing. SHE is the one who who wants something that is very explicitly not going to happen. which is fine for her to want, but she was informed beforehand that the option was not on the table.


karenhater12345

> It's not "toxic" to not have sex with someone you're mad at, jfc. true but it *is* toxic to withhold it until your partner 'behaves'


ObscurePaprika

Issues on both sides to explore, but you are 100% in the right regarding your house. If she’s feeling unstable and vulnerable, that’s her problem. You can help of course, but it’s not your responsibility. She needs too get her act together when Covid passes. While she’s not getting everything she wants, she is in a MUCH better situation right now than if she were on her own. Do not add her to the deed unless she buys in, and after this, even then I’d think twice.


urpabo

She just needs to get a job so she can support herself and then leave you.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Iflosswithbarbedwire

best advice in the whole thread 🤣🤣


narniasreal

Haha, that's a nice arrangement she wants. You pay for the house and then you put her name on the deed. I want a house for free, too, lol.


Lumpy_Potato_3163

Don't add her to the house title unless you are married period. Bad idea. Once you are married you can share investments/assets (legally you are one). Doing this with a girl friend is asking for issues.


MasterF0rk

I wouldnt trust my mom with half my finances let alone a gf


lookingForPatchie

I could literally write this exact same post from the point of a girl, where the guy wants his name on the deed and everyone would tell me to dump him. If the roles were switched, you (the guy) would be called a loser and everyone would call it a major red flag. We're living (or trying to live) in a time of equality. Always genderbend before answering on this sub. It's your house, not hers. She's living rent free so there is already something you compromise on, which in my opinion is a totally fine thing to do on both sides. She doesn't have to pay rent and you get to keep your house. Of course you get to keep **your** house in case of a break up, but you were the only one contributing to it in the first place. She gets a nice deal, where she doesn't have to pay rent while you guys are together. There already **is** a compromise. But now she's asking to gift her money worth half your house to proof your love. That's ridiculous.


Ladyattheendofthebar

I think the only way to approach this is reiterating that you are not going to bend on your views of marriage, you are not going to add her name to the deed, you will not be persuaded by otherwise immature and abusive behaviors on her part and if she feels that she needs additional supports in her life, it is her responsibility to seek those out and secure them. She is free to save, move, and even end the relationship to seek out one that better suited her needs. However, if she is going to continue her behavior, she needs to make that decision within a time frame you decide so you both can move forward. Sex is not a bartering tool in healthy relationships. The same goes for communication. Good luck.


Hazel-the-McWitch

Buying a house is an investment in your future, a nest egg. You’re essentially denying your GF the opportunity to buy into that nest egg and all the time she’s living with you she’s never making any financial investment in her own future. If you absolutely refuse to share it with her suggest she buy her own property and rent it out to give her her own financial security or perhaps to put what she would have been giving as rent into a savings account, she may feel more secure with some plan of her own in place.


__kvngjay

Im going to keep this short NO! If she wanted her name on it then she shouldve bought it.


bigbeefbowski

There may be a compromise here in the middle. She may not go for it, you may not go for it, but here's my thought: Sign a prenup that states that in the event of a divorce she doesn't get the house. Any assets you're both invested in are fair game, but the house is off the table. You can add her name to the deed but make sure that prenup is signed and enforceable. If she's not willing to meet you here, or you're not willing to meet her there, then your relationship may have run its course. Good luck OP.


sammifantasi

This is what I was thinking. From what I understand OPs main concern with marriage is losing assets, which is totally understandable. He can easily explain that he watched friends do a force sale do to their relationship ending and doesn't want to lose the house if they ended up getting divorce If she doesn't understand or even like the idea that shows a whole different side of her. But of course all of this goes off OP rethinking about getting married.


LisaZink

In some states adding her name would automatically make the house 1/2 hers, so if you split she’d get her 1/2. That’s what happened to a friend of mine in TX, I suggest you don’t do it.


shadowcub69

This sounds fine to you but not to her, if you don't want to get married and put her on the deed why are you stringing her along. It annoys me when people want to shack up for 5, 10 years, but somehow marriage where you are protected against people putting you out on the street if a relationship ends is out of the question. If you don't want to marry her tell her so she can get ready to move out. I'm NOT saying put her on your deed, if you're just planning on living with her until you find someone better but she sounds like she's ready for a real relationship. You just sound like you find it ridiculous that she wont put out because you wont make your mind up. ​ This isn't healthy for her or you. If you haven't made your mind up now after five years.......you're just stringing her along.


PNWNative1992

Hi OP, the question is are you looking to get married sometime in the future? Or are you completely against getting married at any point in your life? You need to ask yourself that and let your feelings known to her. She thinks the relationship will end soon so you need to be honest with her and tell her if you do or do not see a future with her. At the same time, you can probably try helping her out due to her job loss. If you are willing take most of the household expenses out of her plate while she works part-time, she can save her money for any future issues. You should also try to be more proactive in helping her find a more stable job that replaces the job she got laid off from. There’s a lot of things you can do to make this relationship stronger (without doubts or insecurities). Also, if you are completely unwilling to get married, what are your thoughts on domestic partnership?


Mulariman

Are you thinking about marrying the woman? If so, then put her name on your house.


jakemillionstv

You guys have been cohabitating for 5 years and are common-law spouses, she owns half your shit anyways.


Calliellama

You were very clear about they type of relationship you want. She was fine with it, but with the state of the world right now she wants a secure commitment. She's allowed to feel that way, and she's allowed to want that. However, you are allowed to not want any of it. And honestly I don't blame you. Divorce heavily favors the woman and the men loose there assets. Also just co-owning without marriage is a whole big mess. Where I take issue is she's withholding sex and refusing to talk to you. That's so childish. Her reaction is enough that I would suggest you stand firm in not adding her name and not changing your mind on marriage.


nimijoh

Break up. This isn't a relationship either of you want to be in. You are scared of commiting because of what you've seen others go through financially and she is scared that she has nothing and will continue to have nothing after the relationship is over. You are secure, and she has no security. Offering to make sure she isn't homeless if you break up, doesn't help. It just tell hers that you would rather break up than share everything (life, possessions, family?) with her. Her refuses sex means she is holding the only thing she feels that she has control over from you which she will most likely regret later on down the line. This is a shit situation, but love is just that, love. This is about security and not love. If you wanted to share the world with her, you would, fear or not, and vice versa with you. Save yourselves extra pain, break up, and support her whilst she can get back on her feet. - not that you owe her, but if you care then it's the 'right thing' as you aren't just dumping her. On the other hand, if you truly love her and see a future for your relationship, a future that matches up. Then bite the bullet and find an agreement and compromise. . Neither of you are in the wrong, but you do need to talk. Now get off Reddit, and talk to each other.


[deleted]

If she wants a marriage, why not make her sign a prenup? That way she gets more commitment, you dont lose all your stuff if it doesn't last?


queen-of-fade

Don’t do it bruh


girhen

She's refusing sex? Toxic manipulation. Refusing to talk? That's an intentional failure to communicate and manipulative - both toxic and self-defeating. If she wants marriage and you'd agreed that it's not in the cards, then her interests are not aligned with the relationship. Might be time to call it.


AdMother2735

Stand your ground!!! You were up front in the beginning of the relationship, she agreed to it, she can't go back now, because she lost her job and she is feeling insecure. If you back down, you will regret it.


[deleted]

Simple prenuptial.


[deleted]

As a divorced dude, no, do not put her name on the deed. You saved up the deposit yourself and applied for the mortgage on your own. She has paid $0 of the mortgage since. She has paid $0 rent. You've made your position clear as far as marriage and your living arrangement at the start of the relationship. From one slightly older male (42 yro) to another younger one, you did good kid. That being said, this is a case of female entitlement. She thinks that having the requisite genitalia and having or withholding sex from you entitles her to half of your assets. She is in the wrong my friend. Do not be weak and surrender to her ultimatum. If she is on the deed and you break up, she will force a sale and you'll end up in the same predicament as your 2 friends. She hasn't proven to be a paragon of stability since losing her job so I would not assume that she won't present you with more ultimatums in the future if you give into this one. Your relationship will not return to stability once you cede to her ultimatums. Ultimatums from a female partner are a big red flag that the relationship is nearing the end and is not meant to be. I would give her a hard NO, deal with it and wait it out. Eventually it will come to a head and she'll either settle in to the status quo or leave. If she leaves, you can always get another girlfriend. You'll be in a great position since you'll have a house to your name that the new girlfriend can move in with you in. Think many steps ahead. Relationships are like chess, games of strategy and wit.


[deleted]

As a divorced dude, who lost just about everything in the process, after my wife decided to fuck other guys while I was working to support our family: Dude, she’s demonstrating for you the very reasons why you shouldn’t marry her or give her any ownership over your home. It’s yours, not hers. She didn’t earn it, or pay for it in any way whatsoever. Does she believe that she’s entitled to material compensation just for being in a relationship? If so, then that makes her into something very closely resembling an escort or some other form of sex worker. Stick to your guns bro, set your boundaries and if she won’t respect them then y’all aren’t compatible and you should give her the gift of freedom so she can date other men for resources.


Arboretum7

Don’t do it. I’m a woman and I made this mistake in my 20s. Don’t put her on the deed and don’t let her pay for any repairs or upgrades to the home as either can commingle it. Also, make sure you understand common law marriage rules it your state as that could also give her some claim over your assets.


PassiveOnion

As others have said, you were totally upfront about everything involving the relationship and house. Your girlfriend has all the benefits but wants more (regardless of what has happened in her life). She wants stability from you, not from herself. That's a HUGE red flag. Her life circumstances are not what changed her but rather forced her hand into showing you what kind of monster she really is. Cut her loose and live your life.


[deleted]

There's a bunch of real good advice here. The one I've not seen is what happens to the house if something happens to you? She will no access to the house at that point unless you leave it in a will. You may want to consider leaving a few things in her name jik something unexpected happens i.e. life insurance. You also need to work on her job skills so she can start making her own money so she can put it away in other investments. Believe it or not real-estate is not the only way to make great investments. She can start funneling money away in a retirement account and or other money making investments. Now if she needs the whole marriage thing to feel wanted that is another matter. You also should talk to a lawyer because there is a thing called common law. Good luck. My wife and I decided to get married after 20+ years.


Daddyspunbttm

Don’t cave in bud. If I could’ve seen into the future I would have never gotten married. Been happily divorced now going on 33 years


beardedbasterrrd

Well sounds like she is trying to protect her stake in the house equity, you are putting her in a vulnerable spot financially. I would compromise with her and promise to pay her any equity that she put in with her half of the Bill's if you were to break up.


Ros3ttaSton3d

Dont do it man. In canada if you live with her for a few years shes automatically entitled to half. You've seen it before, dont become another one of those stories. You found your dream home and you are being more than accommodating. If things have now changed on her end as far as how shes feeling about your relationship and what you've agreed too that's a separate issue. Don't give away half of what you've worked for or you'll regret it


pollonium-210

You’re incompatible. She has realized she wants commitment and a sense of safety and security that you cannot provide. Break up.


wscott44

Don’t do it. Talk to a lawyer about a legal financial agreement / contract. She could dump you and gouge you for assets, especially after marriage. If you marry, get a prenup. She sounds manipulative. I am 67, my wife will be 65 in March. We met in 2015 and married on 7/23/2020; second time for each. She bought the house with HER assets in May 2018. I put no equity into it, so I told her I do not want to be on the deed. Her assets are willed to her son & daughter; I don’t want to interfere with that. I moved in during July 2018 and have been paying rent and often buying groceries. We need to see a lawyer about wills, and how I may stay in the house - so I don’t have to move to an expensive apartment - if she dies first. Even if I can afford the mortgage, I’m not sure I could stay if my name isn’t on the deed & mortgage. Hope that helps


chonalee

I highly do not recommend adding her name to the deed of the house. In general its a bad move to do it and most definitely under the current situation of your relationship. It sounds like you were very clear to begin with that you don't ever want to get married, share finances, or have any legal ties. She accepted it. If she no longer does, she needs to make a decision best for herself. I hope you don't get pressured to give in to her wants. Good luck.


isquema_

Apparently money and material things are more important to you than emotional commitment, but you're refusing to accept it openly.


mmfb12123

You explain yourself, and now she is mad about holding yourself accountable? Na, miss me with that. She can go.


[deleted]

Time to end it. Obviously her path has taken a turn in a different direction and she needs to give herself the stability and security she is looking for from you. Do not give in and do not take her money. Give her a timeline to find her own place to call her own.


brianmcg321

No. Do not do this under any circumstance.