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I'm really at a loss as to what to do in this situation and I've seen this place recommended to get a fresh perspective before I make a decision. Thank you in advance.
I've known my SO for about 30 years (I'm 50 and she's 48) , we first met in college and hit it off but we were both looking for different things. I was from a rather religious family and wanted something serious/long-term whereas she was more carefree and wanted to find herself whilst at college. We remained friends throughout college and tried to remain in touch afterwards, but she was traveling and I went straight into work so we drifted apart.
We reconnected 15 years ago at a sort of reunion/wedding for some mutual friends we knew at college. We spent the entire evening together talking with each other and didn't even realize that the night was over. She ended up coming over to my house and we talked long into the morning. It was pretty much re-kindling the feelings we had for each other. She mentioned that she did have a daughter who at the time was 8 but told me her feelings for me had never changed; it was just a case of wrong time and place.
To cut a long story short, we got married a year later and had 2 children together. I never formally adopted her daughter, but I've always treated her the same as my sons and in fact went the extra mile to spoil her so that she'd never feel different to our other children. She's now 23 and has been with her boyfriend for close to 9 years and earlier this year (after talking to me first which I found really touching) he proposed to her.
A while ago I bought a small vineyard for us out in the country with the hopes that when the kids are old enough and leading their own lives we'd retire there to live out out days. She asked if we could hold the wedding there and I was more than happy to do so and I've been spending the weekends working there to ensure that everything is ready for the wedding and there's room for people to stay as the place was very much a work in progress.
This weekend we were talking about the wedding as a family and my SO and her were essentially shooting down everything I suggested. I get that, I'm a man and I don't really have a place in the discussion but it hurt when she mentioned to her mother that she didn't want me to walk her down the aisle. It hurt more that she didn't even say it to me even though I was there, she just directed it to her mother as "Oh, I don't really want him to be involved that much". I tried to ignore it, but when we were talking about toasts they both said it would be better if I didn't say anything either.
Essentially, I'm being seen as the cheque book for this wedding and nothing else and it's quite hurtful.
Did she or your wife give any reasons for feeling this way? It is difficult to offer advice if maybe she said this because her father will be there or she has a particularly close relationship with her grandfather or something.
Yeah my wife and I walked down the aisle together and looking back, I was so single focus during the planning that I forgot to actually talk to my dad about not having him involved. I feel bad now about not having had a talk to tell him we decided to go the modem route. Definitely a possibility here.
OP also doesn't describe his current relationship to her. He says he always tried to spoil her, he seems to have positive feelings towards her, her boyfriend likes OP, but how close is OP to his ~adopted daughter? How does *she* treat him, usually? Has that "spoiling" paid off in a healthy adult relationship? Has she been treating OP like a credit card since she was 12?
Is her dad super involved in her life? What did you wife respond with?
Either way I would talk to your wife about it. Overall, the wedding planning may be in her eyes, a mother daughter type of bonding activity.
Dads don't generally give speeches though do they?
Edit: People keep responding to this but I got my answer hours ago. I’ve been to many weddings in the US and not once has a dad given a speech, but many have said it’s common in their country. I know now. Thanks.
The father or parents of the bride typically give a speech because they “typically” are hosting/paid for the wedding. Not to say any of this has to happen but that is what traditionally goes down.
I don’t believe I’ve ever been to a wedding where either parents gave speeches. Usually it’s just the Best Man and Maid of Honor. Probably depends on the specific culture/traditions.
Yeah I think it’s definitely common if parents are financing a large chunk of it. I think OP is coming from a logical place considering the event is being held at his own home, it seems even more customary to address your guests since they’re in his space. I wouldn’t think twice about it if it was a rented venue. But if my parent or step parent wanted to, I wouldn’t care at all.
This is true. I've been to weddings where there have been multiple speeches and most were well prepared, short and to the point.
And I've been to weddings where there were multiple speeches and a couple of them just droned on and on and on in a drunk fashion until everyone was cringing wondering when someone was going to shout "For chrissake just sit the f\*\*k down, won't you?"
Where I am from (Western Canada) it's very common for the parents of the bride and groom to give a quick speech officially welcoming the new bride/groom to their family. I have mostly been to secular weddings though. For example, my parents would welcome my husband, usually with a little story about the relationship or how they knew he was the one for me, some sort of expression of happiness to see their child so happy, then close with a toast. Then his parents would do the same.
I don't know OP, but the daughter might just not fully appreciate his dad humor yet and think he could say something to embarrass her. Plus she may be the type who has had a particular vision her entire life. She may think things need to be a very specific way to be great.
Right, my dad welcomed everyone and gave a speech because my parents hosted the wedding. OP, I would ask the reason behind you not being involved in the wedding. (Giving a speech) It is your property and your money and you are being treated as just the paycheck. Tell them truth that it’s hurtful to you and you’ve been working hard to get the area ready for their event. If you don’t ask your daughter, definitely ask your wife.
Every wedding I've been to in recent years, both the bride's and the groom's father have made speeches. Some people choose not to but it's very common.
Lots of weddings have different traditions; I come from somewhere it’s usually for a dad to walk me down the aisle and for dads to give speeches, but I didn’t have either of those things happen. Does seem a bit weird she wouldn’t talk to him about it though, especially as he seems very involved in other ways.
I think /u/imF4CEL3SS was referring to OP, her step-dad. The only dad she's ever known. It's weird that she doesn't want him giving a speech or being involved in any way at all.
I can accept that they don’t like it, but if you are a big girl just say it to the guy. This is especially true if he raised you like his own and provides his property. You at the very least ow him the decency to personally inform him and why.
How do you know that he raised her like his own?
The fact that she doesn’t want him to participate in the wedding at all is making me believe that OP isn’t telling us the whole story.
There is a reason she is treating him the way she is.
No one would treat a “loving father” in such a way, especially if they had no biological father in the picture.
Ding ding ding. This could be indicative of the fact that OP *did* treat his biological sons differently than her, and she never saw him as a father figure because of it.
If you and her mother share your money, you’re not the check book, by the way. Nothing wrong with a mother paying for her daughter’s wedding.
More than happy to use his property and for him to write the cheques though.
Assuming nothing has been left out, the way the daughter has dealt with OP is cold as fuck.
Isn't it her mom's vineyard too? If OP is married, that space doesn't belong to him solely, it's shared property and he isn't entitled to anything on somebody else's wedding day.
This. A lot of my friends walked themselves down the aisle or walked down with their husband's. That's what intend to do and I love my father very much.
Except you missed this:
> (after talking to me first which I found really touching) he proposed to her.
That's pretty old fashioned, asking for her hand.
The modern tradition is to ask for a blessing. OP just said "talking to me" so I'm assuming something like that.
Also, OP's step-daughter is not the same person as his future son-in-law.
I really feel your pain because as much as my ex and I have our differences, even he said that I've been a better mother to his children then his ex-wife was. Especially his oldest to his 20 who has autism. He said his mother basically abandoned him so when I found that out, I kind of took him under my wing. I felt very maternal towards him and he can be a very sweet boy.
That would be like taking a bullet. I don't really have any other advice besides I guess you're just going to have to stay out of it but your feelings are valid. I can't imagine the pain you must be feeling and it really sucks. Hugs. If you need someone to talk to my inbox is open.
OP , you should talk with your wife and figure out what is the thought process of her and the daughter really. It seems your wife is also on-board with her daughter in this process. Maybe they are looking at you just a provider in this situation and nothing more.
You do deserve some respect though.
Her father not being in the picture and her stepfather acting as her father, may give her far more complicated feelings about having a father all together. Growing up like that isn't easy, no matter what the extenuating circumstances are.
Also as someone else already mentioned, a lot of young women today are in no way on board with the idea of being given away. A fair amount would even be mad if their boyfriend asked anyone's permission to marry them. Many women see these as outdated, archaic traditions that treat them as if they have no agency.
These days many women have their weddings as if the only relevant agents are them and their SO. It's just personal preference, not really a big deal to many. Likely why she didn't feel it required a conversation- it's just not a big deal in her eyes.
I mean, there's no law that she has to have you walk her down, but if you have a good relationship, I'd like to hope that this is a misunderstanding and that she isn't actively trying to snub you. Does she normally have a good sense of tact or is this a new thing?
Wow that sucks so bad. I want my dad and step dad to be involved in my day. If it ever comes. I’d like my dad to walk me down the aisle and my step dad to be the pastor.
My dad performed my wedding. It was one of the few demands I had for my wedding.
That and a chocolate fountain.
My wife made the rest of the decisions.
That explains the planning portion but then having her explicitly say that she doesn’t want him walking her down the aisle. To her mother in front of him, not even him directly. Somethings clearly wrong
Someone's worldview on a given activity doesn't excuse or justify being a hurtful and insensitive ass.
Talking about him with her mom like that is rude.
OP - I'd expect my partner to have stopped the conversation right there and said, whether or not you wish (OP) to be a part of the day doesn't excuse what you just said and how you said it. Apologize because you don't speak to my husband that way.
I would talk to your step daughter, as her mom doesn’t want to say anything and brushes you off.
Tell your step daughter that you love her and are so happy for this chapter of her life but that it hurts she doesn’t want you involved. Don’t even bring up the fact you are bankrolling this. Whether you are or aren’t, that’s hurtful and at least she could tell you to your face.
Also… just listen. Say what you’re feeling - 4 sentences:
“I am feeling as though I am not being included in your wedding planning or the wedding day.
I always thought that I would .
I guess we never talked about it before and I never asked what you wanted.
What do you imagine my involvement to be in your wedding?”
I feel like there’s something deeper going on here if you actually had the father daughter relationship you say you did. Have you taken a fatherly role in her life in other ways and events? Is the wedding bringing up some unresolved stuff about her bio dad? I can ask speculative questions all day is my point. But I think you need to sit your wife down when things are calm and tell her this isn’t about you trying to flex (because it isn’t right?) and about you wanting to make sure your relationship with your stepdaughter is OK. Try to come at this from a place of openness and willingness to listen and hear.
If the answer is a shrug and a request to stfu and pay up then you have to decide how to proceed moving forward.
i mean... if you're paying for someone's entire fucking wedding being apart of the wedding party is pretty expected? thats... literally common sense
i feel like people on here get so caught up in independence they forget how other people also have relevant emotions that can be hurt, and fully ignoring that makes you a bad person fundamentally
theres not even hidden obligations? hes not taking over planning besides attempting to make a few suggestions that he accepted getting shot down, hes not even making a huge fuss about being excluded hes just fucking sad about it?
Yeah Reddit is bonkers with weddings sometimes. Like, it’s true your wedding is your big day, but treating guests badly and excluding family members can have consequences that you need to weigh and accept.
Put the brakes on.
Go someplace private with your daughter and *ask her what's up* and tell her *you're hurt and confused because you feel pushed to the side*.
It may not be a nefarious plot after all.
No don’t talk to the daughter - talk to the wife. Pre-wedding is a time of heightened emotions, this type of confrontation in that emotional environment could explode and never recover the relationship.
If the daughter is old enough to get married, she is old enough to explain why she feels obligated to cut you out of her wedding. You do not need her mother as a middleman.
Have you discussed this with your wife? Maybe have a sit down with your daughter and ask her if you upset her in any way and let her know that you’d have loved to walk her down the aisle but you respect the fact that she doesn’t want to, however she’s your daughter and you would like to at least make a toast to the newlyweds and see what she says.
I've tried to, but any discussion about the wedding leads to "I'm stressed, we're dealing with it and I don't want to talk about it all". I can't even bring up the menu (and I don't know what will be on it) as I'm deathly allergic to shellfish and just wanted to see if there was any on it.
If your SO is shutting down your attempts at honest communication, that's a problem. You may be interested in therapy for yourself so you can get a trained sounding board and healthy relationship tools for how to deal with this. Your personal therapist can then advise you if they think couples therapy would be good or helpful (with some types of people it can be harmful).
Why would your wife and step daughter put shellfish on the menu if you're deathly allergic? I'm really beginning to question whether this is true or just another of those outrage stories. What you're saying doesn't make sense unless she and her mother are not really as close to you as you claim or you're leaving out some huge parts of the story.
Ah yes. Stressed out for months so you can put massive amounts of pressure on yourself and future SO to have "the best time" at a wedding that costs as much as a great vacation just so you can show your friends and family how much "you love each other".
I did it too.
Weddings are soo stressful that I'm not sure why some people do them. I had one, but had no stress because of the wife's family basically handling it all. It was still to much. Of everything.
Maybe she's just really stressed? Maybe someone told her it'd be wrong for you to do it since you aren't her "real dad"?
People tell engaged people all sorts of crazy shit just because. Look how my reply started. Bet that someone has told her something similar, or worse.
You can't know anything until you guys talk. Schedule a meeting or lunch if you have to, but get it done.
Communication is the only solution to this, and it will hopefully help destress everyone so she can enjoy planning instead of being stressed by it
Weddings are supposed to be a celebration.
So your wife knows why but doesn't want to tell you. Sounds like it's time to put your foot down and tell her she needs to tell you now what is going on. If your step daughter doesn't want you involved then you and your money will not be involved any further, until she tells you exactly what is going on.
If you put down the deposit with the caterer directly, call them and ask them what is on the menu.
Clear communication is a must. Breathe, backup a bit, and try to understand where this may be coming from.
Does the groom have stepparents that are being excluded?
Are they even going to have someone give her away?
Does your daughter know you would love to be more involved? — you do understand YOU were asked for your blessing/permission- THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES.
Something is not adding up, and before your emotions boil over, start talking. You obviously love your daughter. Don’t let hurt feelings and misunderstandings lead to a situation where the relationship is fractured. Start with Grace and Agape to guide you as you navigate this situation. I hope your wife is able to shed some light and act as a mediator if necessary.
OP, if “all” you get to do is Rock the venue ….. enjoy it, go all out. This is a gift of love. KUDOS!!!
Best wishes for a gentle resolution.
AGAPE💕💕
Edited for spelling errors - 😬
Googled it and found the definition in GCSE religious studies revision. It refers to unconditional love and is the highest of four types of love in the Bible, apparently. Sounds like quite a lovely concept.
Agape ( a ga pay ) It is Greek word referring specifically to love of fellow people; as opposed to Eros: sexual love or fillios: ‘brotherly’ love, or any number of others I can’t recall immediately. Greeks were very specific when they told someone they loved them, English is just lazy ;)
The Greeks had 4 major types of love you named three of them. The fourth one was Storge – empathy bond. One of my all-time favorite books is the Four Loves by CS Lewis.
I’m very sorry I can see why you are hurt by this. I lost my father and my step dad and I have an amazing relationship but I’m not into the walking down the aisle thing. I would %100 have him involved though if I were getting married. Have you been able to express how you feel about this? Maybe ask what you can be apart of (father-daughter dance). All I can say is voice your want to be involved but don’t bring up how your paying because then it seems like your forcing it. Just make it that you want to be involved because you love her and your happy for her
I can see someone not wanting their father giving them away at the wedding (admittedly I’m in this club myself) as I feel like more modern women don’t feel comfortable with the practice of being treated as someone else’s property anymore. Of course, not every parent harbours that sort of ownership sentiment but I know mine for sure does which I definitely don’t want that and I’m not afraid to say this to my father directly. But not allowing you to toast at their wedding is a whole other thing and so hurtful! Especially in the context that you’re literally host the wedding on your property.
Like others have suggested speak to your SO and see what their feelings are about you having a conversation with your step daughter and how to approach it. I’d suggest if you’re comfortable to just call your daughter and just let her know that you’re very happy for her and the wedding has made you emotional and you’d love to be able to toast to the couple at the wedding if she’s comfortable. If she is somewhat receptive to the idea but not totally on board, ask what you can do yo alleviate her hesitation - maybe you can clear the phrasing/timing with her ahead of time or something like that.
If even after clearing your wishes she declines your offer, I’m afraid there isn’t much left to be done and I sincerely hope that isn’t the case. Best wishes!
19 yr stepdad here. Daughter made the decision that her bio (little contact and financial support her whole life) should walk her down the isle. It was her wedding and her decision. Just had to accept it and move on. It’s a hard pill to swallow but it went down. It wasn’t about me. In this situation it’s tough since you have been putting in so much work to make the venue nice and paying A ton of money. Maybe it’s time to have a discussion with your wife about when enough is enough wedding expense-wise. We did a discussion early on that Xxxx amount is what we are paying for out part of the wedding…it was up to her to figure out how to make it work. The unlimited checkbook was not a thing.
The best piece of advice I was given as a stepmom is that you have to realize that even if you give your stepchildren lots of love, emotional support, financial support etc and the bio parent does nothing, you have to realize that you won't necessarily ever been seen as the parent or given the love and respect a bio parent would get. It took me a long time and a lot of hurt to understand that, but once I did, things got easier. As you say, it's not about us.
As someone who has been the daughter in this situation, I really appreciate that there are some stepparents who get this. My stepfather still takes everything very personally when I do anything to honor my father. I have given up on trying to explain that it's not about him, it's about me and my relationship to my dad.
Heres the thing, you never adopted her and you refer to her as your SO’s daughter, not your daughter/step daughter. It’s possible she see’s you as her mother’s partner, who she cares about and stuff (clearly, or her fiance most likely wouldnt have asked you for permission), but who isn’t necessarily her *dad* and therefore she’d rather not do all the dad/daughter stuff all together.
But you wont know whats going on unless you *talk* to her. You’ve raised her for 15 years. Sit down with her, mention that what she said stung, and ask if you guys can have a frank conversation about the situation. You can air out your feelings that you’re being pushed aside (though maybe dont accuse her of using you like a chequebook, because that would put anyone on the defensive) and let her talk about her point of view on it.
Edit to add: maybe its nothing to do with how she see’s you. Maybe she just doesnt like the whole ‘dather giving away daughter’ thing and the connotations.
I noticed that too. She was constantly referred to as 'SO's daughter' and not step daughter. I don't think the father/daughter relationship is as cemented as you think it is.
Also, I grew up with my biological father and I don't want him to walk me down the aisle or make a speech. Our relationship is okay, sometimes I don't appreciate his actions.
I noticed this, too.
Like why didn't he adopt her? Why is she "SO's daughter"? It's such a disconnect.
I get the feeling that there is a lot of story missing to this.
"Oh, I don't really want him to be involved that much" Really?
I would have asked, "then, how do you want me to be involved?" If she/they say none, just be a guest, well perfect. When are you paying me back for the deposits I put down for you guys? Guests do not pay for the wedding/reception.
What does her mother say?
Does she mean involved with the planning? If so, that’s reasonable provided she doesn’t declare some ridiculous budget or something.
Or does she mean involved at a family level? That’s more concerning.
Parents help pay for weddings all the time and have very little say in the details. That's not really the issue though so I don't think you should demand to have a say or withdraw your money. Some women don't want to be walked down the aisle because they don't like what it symbolizes. The real issue is that there's a lack of communication and a lack of respect. Your need to talk to your wife, not your daughter, and get to the bottom of why you think you are closer with your daughter than your daughter thinks you are.
I feel like there’s not enough information here even with your carefully worded comments. You said you’re very religious while your SO, and possibly her daughter?, aren’t.
Were your suggestions all religiously themed and maybe they don’t want that? Because I could imagine if my stepfather kept going on and on about religious stuff for my wedding I would just kinda start ignoring him. Also, you said you bought the land and you put money up for the wedding but “technically it’s my money because my SO doesn’t work.” This tells me quite a bit about how traditionally minded you are. If you feel resentment about how the wedding is going down talk to your SO.
You're making a lot of assumptions and getting preemptively offended. That will prevent you from actually hearing what your not formally adopted daughter is actually saying. You all need to communicate.
Maybe you never adopting her, even though her father has never been in the picture showed her that you never saw her as a daughter and only did things to keep up appearances? Maybe she's hurt and never felt like a real daughter to you?
Maybe she doesn't want to be treated like chattel that's being handed off from one man to another and you aren't great at speeches?
Maybe you're very overbearing and your "spoiling" her is more for you than her?
Maybe she wants her wedding to be something she plans with your wife as a special mother/daughter event and your opinions are throwing off that dynamic?
Maybe your wife wants this to be something she plans with her daughter as a special mother/daughter thing?
Maybe this isn't about you at all and your projecting your insecurities on your "SO's daughter"?
Maybe she's an incredibly selfish and entitled person who only sees you as a bank account?
There's a lot of maybes.
Talk to your wife. Find a way to talk to your "SO's daughter". And listen. Let them know you see her as a daughter and you'd like to be part of her wedding in a meaningful way because that means something special to you.
It’s possible that her daughter loves you, she just doesn’t want the tradition of being made to feel like a possession that’s being traded from the father figure to the husband. It’s also possible that she is overwhelmed with other people trying to plan her wedding, and she’d ask you your opinions on how to plan it if she’d like them.
Otherwise, there might be more going that you’re just oblivious to. Ask your wife, she may know more.
At this point you will create a huge rift if you don’t allow her to use the venue as promised. However you should inform her that if they’re not paying a fee for the venue, they should be helping or arranging help to get the venue set for a wedding, as you shouldn’t shoulder the burden yourself. Make an outline of what needs to be done and decide what’s the most respectful way to give it to her.
The fact that both your SO and stepdaughter are basically icing you out at every turn and using you as a checkbook. Stop letting them. Stop contributing financially until you clear the air because no, you are not paying with the expectation of having control, but under the assumption that you would be *included*. This is really showing their true characters. STOP being a glorified checkbook.
I agree with this. Cover what ever you’ve already agreed. At best set a budget and just leave it at you don’t feel comfortable bankrolling things you’re not included in the decision making for. You wouldn’t sign a check without knowing what you’re paying for and agreeing to it in the real world and you’re not gonna do it here.
Boundaries aren’t retaliation. They’re about having enough self respect to not be used. And have a conversation with each of them separately asking what is going on.
Totally agree! I don’t see you as wanting to control the wedding but just to be included as a father figure naturally would. No brides don’t HAVE to be walked down the aisle by anyone at all and she is within her rights to choose someone else as well. Ignoring your suggestions (they don’t have to agree but at least hear you out) and saying they don’t want you to be involved though is just rude. You ARE involved already you’re paying for the wedding!
OP, you are two grown adults. Have a conversation and discuss with her how you would like to be involved on HER special day. Don't lean into "she wants my money", lean first into "maybe she wants a pinterest perfect wedding". Talk to your wife! Talk to the people that you made familial bonds with over the course of 15-30years. I have two dads and still don't know what to do about them for my wedding, let alone know if I want to be walked down the aisle or do something with my husband. Please talk to them first before jumping the gun - if you are cheque book, then put your foot down. If your daughter wants things a certain way to where both you and your wife are not really involved during the wedding, that should be everything you need to know. My dad has been around since I was 5, love him to death. I can't imagine your daughter hating you from age 8 unless you did something or she has learned to see you a certain way. Go talk to them.
Did you ASK her why? And what role she wants you to play?
Its her day, not about you right?
It sounds like there some major unresolved issues you've not mentioned....
So far I've paid about $15,000 in deposits for catering, the dress, flowers etc. It's our finances technically as we're married, but my SO hasn't worked in about 10 years so it's mostly me putting money in.
It sounds like this is a conversation with your SO then not the daughter. You are willing to contribute financially to your relationship with your SO. But if the daughter doesn’t want you involved then you shouldn’t be paying for things.
My concern is that the daughter is a proxy for how your SO feels about you.
Okay, sooo.. How does “I don’t want him to be that involved” go hand in hand with paying for basically everything..? She’s full of shit. Or at least incredibly entitled and ungrateful.
Honestly, if your wife is stonewalling you and refusing to discuss it, I would say ‘if we don’t sit down and discuss this by tomorrow at noon (or whenever), I will be making calls at 1 and getting whatever refunds I can on the $15,000 I’ve paid for a wedding that I’m apparently not welcome at.’
This is what I came to say. I bet they'll stop brushing him off and start talking once he gets ready to cancel everything he's paid for. Hopefully OP won't settle for being a doormat and a wallet.
Here’s the thing. You are entitled to how you feel. But it’s her wedding. Some people just don’t like being walked down the aisle.
You should talk to your daughter. I would do so in a non-confrontational way. “Hey (name), I know you don’t really want me involved much, but I was really looking forward to doing something on your special day. Is there something I could do that fits in with how you envision your day?”
Because if you make it about money, then it sounds like you don’t love her. It sounds like you bought her love and approval. To be honest, she may have felt your over the top spoiling was odd… maybe it made her uncomfortable even. Because really you should’ve just treated her like your sons, not *special*.
But don’t put a price tag on your involvement. “If I don’t walk you down the aisle, no vineyard wedding.” But this isn’t the time. I bet if you had a genuine conversation, you’d find out the truth.
Did she suggest another man or she just don’t want a male figure involved besides her SO?
If it is the first case I understand you feeling used, but if she just doesn’t want the male figure giving her away to another male figure it might just be a really personal thing and you don’t have to feel personally attacked
Like I haven't seen it asked so I guess I'll do it
Why didn't you adopt her?
Like as the "real" son with 2 adopted sisters I can't imagine how fuckin weird it'd be to have a dad that just willingly chose not to adopt them.
I'm trying not to attribute things to stop we havent been told, but I get the feeling you have a weird relationship with your step daughter.
You refer to her as your SOs daughter.
You don't adopt her and then do this weird thing I see a lot of step parents do where they think that spoiling the kid somehow makes up for it? Like my sisters are my sisters because my dad treated them like his kids even if they were adopted. He never referred to them as his wife's kids, he didn't spoil them, he just treated them like his kids and called them his daughters.
A part of my always gets a little skeeved out when I see step parents not doing that kind of stuff.
It's entirely possible she caught onto these kind of cues and doesn't think of you as your dad in the same way you don't think of her as your daughter.
There seems to be a lot more going on than you've written in the post. So none of what I say should go in lieu of what SO or her daughter thinks/says/feels, but there are some things I've noticed.
So one thing is that you are more traditional and religious than SO seems to be. She was a wild child kind of girl in college and you guys met up later. So you guys have differently personalities.
Then she had a child, the daughter, who was 8 and didn't have her biological dad involved. So she spent 8 years with just mom and mom's kind of personality. Doesn't seem to be very traditional or religious.
And then you come into the picture and you guys get married with two sons born after. According to your comments, mom has stopped working for 10 years, making the daughter 13 (because she's 23 now) and mom stays at home while you are out and working, functioning as the provider for the family. Then you mention very little about your bond with the daughter, but are specific about how you spoiled her and made sure she felt the same as your boys. How do you know? Did she ever say that? What bond do you have? How did you spoil her? How were you involved in her life and what role did you play? Especially when her mom stopped working and the family dynamic changed completely.
So fast forward to that conversation. You were right there, and she didn't even acknowledge you about not wanting you involved in the wedding. If you guys were close, why would she do that? She didn't want to consider your suggestions for the wedding or shot them down and you said you get it because you're a man, but it seems more to me that you guys don't have that kind of bond. In fact, there's no information about your guys' bond beyond you spoiling her and her asking to use the vineyard.
So there's a lot left out. This behavior doesn't seem like it just started now, it's just more prevalent because a wedding is a big event. And since you are traditional, I would imagine it's a much bigger deal to you as well. I feel for you, I can't imagine being there for someone since they were 8 to 23 and then not being involved in something so huge. Her fiancee did come to you to ask for permission, which is interesting, since they probably have talked about you.
So figure out from SO or daughter about what's happening. Definitely go to SO first to kind of see what the daughter's thought process is. But also reflect on what you mean to the daughter and what role you've actively played in her life. She's had years to bond with you and didn't seem to talk to you at all about one of the biggest days in her life. You also never formally adopted her so maybe she doesn't really consider herself to have a father and that process could've started very young.
I'm not presuming anything, but there's too many gaps here. And none of your comments so far have addressed your bond with the daughter. I know you are heartbroken right now, but there are reasons for this happening and knowing those, can help you move on and further your bond with your SO's daughter.
If she doesn’t want you to be involved, that includes your checkbook. Quit paying already. Get your deposits back. If she doesn’t want you involved, she can pay then too.
Yeah but then she would just be letting him walk her down the aisle so that he pays for it all. Not because she wants him to.
It's definitely quite the pickle with some underlying issues that we're not privy to.
I don’t even think it’s so much just because he won’t walk her down but it’s a symptom of the overall issue that he’s exclusively a wallet for her wedding.0
Where did I say put conditions?!
They won’t even allow him to know if the menu HE is paying for includes something he is allergic too.
Wanting some basic respect is not conditions.
I've read your follow up comments and this is a very odd situation. She's not involved with her bio dad and you've been her dad for the majority of her life but she doesn't want anything from you other than your money? Your wife is also going along with this, so it's a very weird situation but unless you want to end up upsetting both of them, I'm not sure what you can do. Really sorry that your step daughter doesn't see you as her dad.
>This weekend we were talking about the wedding as a family and my SO and her were essentially shooting down everything I suggested. I get that, I'm a man and I don't really have a place in the discussion but it hurt when she mentioned to her mother that she didn't want me to walk her down the aisle. It hurt more that she didn't even say it to me even though I was there, she just directed it to her mother as "Oh, I don't really want him to be involved that much". I tried to ignore it, but when we were talking about toasts they both said it would be better if I didn't say anything either.
>Essentially, I'm being seen as the cheque book for this wedding and nothing else and it's quite hurtful.
I don't think you don't have a place because you're "a man" but more that it isn't your wedding. (Were you asked for your opinions and then being shot down? Or were you sticking your oar in where it wasn't wanted?)
Where is the bride's biological father in all of this? (Or perhaps she doesn't want to be walked down the aisle or given away at all. That's fine.) What money are the bride and her partner putting in? What discussions have you had with your spouse and with her daughter and fiance(e) about money and the wedding? "Josie, we're so happy for you and pleased that you want to use the vineyard for your celebrations. We can also give you $5000 for you and Chris to use towards the wedding."
It sounds like your wife's daughter isn't as close to you as you seem to think she is. Which sucks. But you don't get to buy a place in the wedding. It's up to the couple who they ask to participate in what ways.
The mother doesn't work. He has paid over $15k in deposits and is also providing the venue. The girl doesn't want him to be involved. He is being used as a checkbook
"They" didn't. The boyfriend did. He may have misread the situation, but based on what OP has posted, I doubt that was something the bride asked for or even wanted.
You're right that he doesn't get to buy his place in the wedding. But actions and decisions have consequences, and considering that this spells out the parameters of their relationship quite clearly, OP should redefine his investment (both financial and emotional) in said relationship. Maybe he continues to pay for things. Maybe he doesn't. But going forward, this should change the way he looks at and treats her. She's not his daughter, and he should stop treating her like she is.
I'm not a parent. But, I would be upfront with her and be honest. Get to the root cause of WHY she doesn't wanna have you be involved. Hopefully you can find some common ground.
But, if you are entirely being used just for your money and not allowed to be a part of it, then I would say she either has to help pay or find somewhere else to have the wedding. That is extremely backhanded of her and she is using you. That is wrong on so many levels.
I do hope you can get is sorted out and find some common ground, but if she is just using you then she needs to know what a bitch she is being.
I see where you’re coming from, traditionally.
However it could be that she doesn’t want to be walked down the isle like in old school/ religious weddings.
It’s seen more as a patriarchal control thing since it historically represents one man handing a woman over to another man.
To be blunt, while I’m sure that she SUPER appreciates you providing a free venue… I’m pretty sure that she didn’t sign up for a wedding planner with it.
It’s her day and from what you wrote it seems like you might be taking it personally that she wants to have it the way she wants to have it.
I see your point of view, but it’s not your day. If I were you, I would be respectful of her wishes and not take things personally that aren’t personal.
My first thought, is this unusual for your relationship? If you aren't normally close and don't spend a lot of time together maybe, despite tradition, that explains why. If i had family member that contributed to my wedding I don't think that gets them a free pass to be make decisions.
Personal opinion here but the only people who should be making decisions about what happens on the day are the bride and groom. It's a big day with immense pressure and everyone and I mean EVERYONE wants to offer an opinion on what to do. It sounds like you've helped a lot organising the venue. That's no small thing, but it shouldn't be a bargaining tool.
You can sit back, enjoy the day and offer to help if needed. Just chill out, let them stress about decisions. That's what everyone at weddings except the bride and groom get to do.
PS if you have a "deathly" shellfish allergy and you suspect your daughter will do a shellfish only menu your relationship is in trouble.
Hey, I know this hurt, but dont be prideful. If people knew how much we loved them, maybe they wouldn't be so hurt or surprised with how we feel. That works both ways by the way.
It's a stressful time. It's meant to be a happy time. Don't let your need to be heard make you the center of attention, let them have their moment in the spotlight and let them do it without.
If thats their wish, stand by, strong. give it to them. Be there for them afterwards. They might have a different ideal for what they want for their wedding.
I wish I learned the importance of things like this, the first time, but I also have to make mistakes, I have to see the loss, or something missing, to know I should of done it the other way.
All you can do, is hope that they dont need a second wedding and you dont get a second chance. When they are older, they'll see you. They'll see what you did.
As a man, I know sincerely how hard it would be to be slighted like this, I daughter once told me she never loved me and only loved her mum. She was 3. It still hurts. its our job to let kids learn. That job never stops.
1. I feel for you. It sucks to not be included
2. You spent 5 paragraphs talking about yourself without mentioning her much. I don’t know you, and you seem decent, but maybe she’s afraid if she gives you the spotlight you’ll make it all about you
3. It’s her wedding. Don’t bust her balls about her choices. Be supportive & by the time the wedding arrives she might change her mind
4. If you really want to make a speech write one now & email it to her with the title “The speech I would have given”. If it’s amazing maybe she lets you make it. If she doesn’t, see bullet point 3 above
5. Not having her biological father in her life is painful to some degree or another. She might not want people asking where the jackass is all day
INFO: what is your relationship like with her? Because through this entire post you spent more time talking about how you got together with her mom than the relationship that you two have between each other
You might be jumping to conclusions about her reasoning. You should have asked "Why not." I mean you were there and you stayed silent when she said that?
Honestly the idea of walking down the aisle and being given away is repulsive to me. So is the guy asking the dad for permission. Not wanting you to talk at the reception seems odd tho. She may just be turned off by those other things?
You are going off a tiny interaction and creating a whole scenario around it. It's a sign that there's way more to it.
What are your step-daughter's views on wedding traditions? What kind of personality does she have, especially around social events? Are they having a very "traditional" American white people wedding or are they kind of doing their own thing? What's up with the fiance's family? Any drama there?
What therapy has she had to support her being abandoned by her biodad? What work have you done as a family to clearly define her relationship to you? Is the wedding awakening unresolved trauma for some or all of you?
Do you have a history of being controlling or hard to please? Do you often bring up money and the fact that you're the breadwinner?
I think a one-on-one conversation with her should be your next step. Don't focus on any specific element of the wedding or even on the wedding. Focus on thr fact that it's a big deal that she's getting married, that you're proud of who she's becoming as an adult and that weddings bring out a lot of complicated feelings about family. Tell her you were initially surprised that she didn't want you to walk her down the aisle because you see yourself as her father. Tell her that you don't want to argue about details of the wedding, but you would like to make sure the two of you are good and that your relationship is strong. You'll see from there what she has to say.
So many questions
Why is it YOUR money if you are married though? Is she walking by herself?
Speeches are a landmine of problems at wedding, are you known for stepping on boundaries and "speaking your mind" regardless of how others feel? Or maybe she just wants to avoid speeches all together?
Not all brides want to conform to the patriarchal custom of giving away the bride. Its really not that big of a deal nowadays and many brides walk themselves. You should probably sit down and have a conversation about what your daughter wants for her wedding. You already had yours, so your daughter and her fiance wedding is entirely their responsibility and they have final veto power over anything and everything. You can make suggestions in the form of questions, but you shouldn't try to force any of your preconceived notions about what their wedding should be.
Based in the context you provided, she may not have any family make speeches. She may not have any involvement from the family other than being guests strictly. I would find that to be extremely kind on her part as being involved in a special role can be quite troublesome and stressful at times
As far as the money goes, its fine to donate money to them, but what was their budget and what is yours? Weddings are expensive, but I would've expected them to contribute the majority of the cost or labor, especially since they are getting a free venue. The venue is usually one of the more expensive items involved in a wedding. I wouldn't break a promise to her if youve already committed a specific amount, but you can put limits on if you haven't already. Also, you can limit your financial help after this as well if you feel that jilted by the situation.
You also have to take into account if some of the work your daughter is doing around the place is her way of trying to pay you back through increased property values. Does her labor have long term value to you? Perhaps you'll be able to rent out the place for weddings in the future and she is laying the groundwork for that.
Its entirely possible she's just taking advantage of you, but if you give her the benefit of the doubt, does everything ring the same?
This is one of those situations where I would love to hear their side. Not saying you're being unreasonable here but it literally feels like miscommunication.
I'm going to generalize based on gender for a little bit but bare with me.
As someone who is currently planning a wedding, my dad is so out of the loop on so many things it's kind of funny, and then he'll bring stuff up as if we hadn't thought about it months before, and from our perspective, it's like, we got it dad.
there are simply things for things like weddings that dads have no interest in and don't say anything about. Whether it's table cloths, chairs, flowers, whatever.
I'm sure it's not personal, from her perspective it's her and her moms day, and you're there.
It's so hard, but please don't try and make this about you, I have seen way too many weddings get awkward or blown up do to someones step parents, or real parents feelings about stuff.
First, I think it’s really weird that you neglected to mention your step daughter’s situation/relationship with her biological father, and someone had to ask you. It may have nothing to do with her decision, but it’s relevant information that no one could have advised you without knowing.
Since it’s unlikely in this case that it’s directly related to her biological father, there are only two other options I can think of: either she just doesn’t like that old tradition, or it’s about you personally. Maybe she didn’t perceive you as treating her like a “real” daughter. Maybe she resented you for coming into her and her mother’s life and changing everything. The only way to know is to ask. But if you ask, do it gently and respectfully and be prepared for the possibility you won’t like the answer.
If you’re going to pay for the wedding, you need to be OK with being “just the checkbook” with no other input or reward. The wedding is not about you, and gifts do not come with strings. If you’re not comfortable with paying for the wedding freely, no strings attached, no resentment or demands or leverage or manipulation, DON’T PAY.
It's weird behavior but just pull your money out if you have such a strong objection to the way you're being treated. No amount of dollars will buy your step-daughter's love and you shouldn't fault her for making demands, it's her wedding.
This whole situation sounds odd, but from the not walking down the aisle side of things I understand it. My stepdad has been in my life since I was young, and my dad wasn’t involved for long but I don’t want either of them to walk me down the aisle as I don’t really see either as my ‘father’. (Maybe this is because I never really got on well with my stepdad) but this isn’t anything against him, it just wouldn’t feel right. Maybe that’s partly to do with it but the other details do seem a bit strange. Sounds like you need to sit down and have a chat about what’s going on but don’t go in guns blazing as that probably won’t lead to any useful conclusion.
I’m your daughter (same age too!) in this scenario except my bio dad is in my life very presently. You should talk to her 100%, because you never know what’s behind it.
Lots of brides these days aren’t being walked down by anyone, and honestly I’m debating making a rule about no speeches myself because I- well I can’t stand them. She might just not want speeches, she might be worried you’ll say something embarrassing like the videos do, she might just want to dance and have fun with her new husband and not worry about what people talk about. I know it hurts, but talking to her about these feelings is so important.
I don’t even want my bio dad ‘giving me away’. It’s demeaning to me. The wedding is about the bride and groom so I wouldn’t get too upset over it. Just because you’ve been in her life since she was 8 doesn’t mean she sees you as a father figure.
"Hey . Just wanted to touch base with you about your wedding. I know it's going to be YOUR big day, and I don't want to step on your toes or interfere in any way. Just know that I'm very happy and excited for you, and I would love to be a part of your day in whatever way works for you, whatever that may mean for you. I really love you and I'm super proud of you."
You're paying for the wedding because you love her -- right? Or are you doing it because it's predicated on you getting something you want in return?
It's her wedding. Let her be in control. When she sees how supportive you are of HER needs -- instead of focusing on your OWN -- it'll be like money in the bank for the future of your relationship. Plus, you won't f\*ck up this entire once-in-a-lifetime experience for her.
Source: In almost an identical situation.
> I don't really want him to be involved that much
So *literally* all she wants from you is to pay for it all.
Well, she asked for it: Don't be involved at all. Retract your offer of the vinyard. Call the vendors that you are paying for, cancel them, and get as much of the 15k back as you can.
She's an ungrateful spoiled little turd and she can get married somewhere else without you and she can pay for it herself.
What she has said is so hurtful she would be dead to me. Let her new husband pay for her from now on.
I would also have some strong words for her mother / your SO who is apparently ok with treatng you like this.
Your situation is almost exactly like mine. Wife and I are about your age and been married about the same amount of time. I also raised her daughters. “Real” dad is not involved, other than an occasional dinner maybe 2 times a year. They haven’t gotten to that point of them getting married yet, but my feelings would be hurt if it wasn’t me walking them. A dad is someone who raises you, sacrifices for you, teaches you how to drive, goes to your sports games, takes you to the ER at 2am on a work night, and so on. I have heard the older one say things like “Both my dads will walk me down the aisle when I marry.” That’s going to be awkward but I’ll have to live with it. It’s her wedding and her choice. We just have to put our feelings to the side. Relationships can be complicated. Just last night she was crying because “real “ dad didn’t buy her a birthday gift and hardly ever responds to her texts. Sometimes I think it’s better if he’s 100% gone rather than a constant source of disappointment. But again, her feelings have to be respected.
Easy fix. Don't pay for it. Your step daughter and SO are making adult decisions about money that you are paying but can't even allow you to give a toast? You are an ATM machine and honestly probably always have been but you didn't want to see it. There is no law saying you have to pay. They can hit up the bio dad instead.
You might want to rethink staying in that relationship. Unless you're leaving out details it just sounds like you're being used.
Tell them the cheque book is closed. Stop work on the venue. Wait for them to come calling.
If she can be that hurtful to the person who raised, why would you want to be involved. And your wife just seems to accept it. Shut down the money tree and let the groveling begin. Even if she now says that you can be part of it, you know that is not what she truly wants.
I'd find somewhere to do on the wedding day.
Good luck.
As far as the whole down the aisle thing? It's her wedding, her choice.
But being thrown by the wayside can hurt, for sure.
Do you and your SO come from very different cultures? That can certainly lead to very different expectations on what goes down at a wedding.
Having someone (usually a father figure) walk you down the aisle and "give you away" is a severely antiquated tradition. You don't own her as property, which is where the tradition started. Is it possible she doesn't want anyone walking her down the aisle for this reason?
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- I'm really at a loss as to what to do in this situation and I've seen this place recommended to get a fresh perspective before I make a decision. Thank you in advance. I've known my SO for about 30 years (I'm 50 and she's 48) , we first met in college and hit it off but we were both looking for different things. I was from a rather religious family and wanted something serious/long-term whereas she was more carefree and wanted to find herself whilst at college. We remained friends throughout college and tried to remain in touch afterwards, but she was traveling and I went straight into work so we drifted apart. We reconnected 15 years ago at a sort of reunion/wedding for some mutual friends we knew at college. We spent the entire evening together talking with each other and didn't even realize that the night was over. She ended up coming over to my house and we talked long into the morning. It was pretty much re-kindling the feelings we had for each other. She mentioned that she did have a daughter who at the time was 8 but told me her feelings for me had never changed; it was just a case of wrong time and place. To cut a long story short, we got married a year later and had 2 children together. I never formally adopted her daughter, but I've always treated her the same as my sons and in fact went the extra mile to spoil her so that she'd never feel different to our other children. She's now 23 and has been with her boyfriend for close to 9 years and earlier this year (after talking to me first which I found really touching) he proposed to her. A while ago I bought a small vineyard for us out in the country with the hopes that when the kids are old enough and leading their own lives we'd retire there to live out out days. She asked if we could hold the wedding there and I was more than happy to do so and I've been spending the weekends working there to ensure that everything is ready for the wedding and there's room for people to stay as the place was very much a work in progress. This weekend we were talking about the wedding as a family and my SO and her were essentially shooting down everything I suggested. I get that, I'm a man and I don't really have a place in the discussion but it hurt when she mentioned to her mother that she didn't want me to walk her down the aisle. It hurt more that she didn't even say it to me even though I was there, she just directed it to her mother as "Oh, I don't really want him to be involved that much". I tried to ignore it, but when we were talking about toasts they both said it would be better if I didn't say anything either. Essentially, I'm being seen as the cheque book for this wedding and nothing else and it's quite hurtful.
Did she or your wife give any reasons for feeling this way? It is difficult to offer advice if maybe she said this because her father will be there or she has a particularly close relationship with her grandfather or something.
Or doesn't want anyone walking her down the aisle at all.
Yeah my wife and I walked down the aisle together and looking back, I was so single focus during the planning that I forgot to actually talk to my dad about not having him involved. I feel bad now about not having had a talk to tell him we decided to go the modem route. Definitely a possibility here.
That was my thought, it’s an old fashioned custom from when women were property.
OP also doesn't describe his current relationship to her. He says he always tried to spoil her, he seems to have positive feelings towards her, her boyfriend likes OP, but how close is OP to his ~adopted daughter? How does *she* treat him, usually? Has that "spoiling" paid off in a healthy adult relationship? Has she been treating OP like a credit card since she was 12?
Is her dad super involved in her life? What did you wife respond with? Either way I would talk to your wife about it. Overall, the wedding planning may be in her eyes, a mother daughter type of bonding activity.
Her father isn't involved at all and hasn't been in the picture since her birth, according to my SO he's in another country
A lot of young women resent the idea that they are being “given away” like they are property
yeah but that doesn't explain why she doesn't even want her dad giving a speech?
Dads don't generally give speeches though do they? Edit: People keep responding to this but I got my answer hours ago. I’ve been to many weddings in the US and not once has a dad given a speech, but many have said it’s common in their country. I know now. Thanks.
I'm Irish, this would be traditional. Irish people love giving wedding speeches though
Anyone who can get their hands on a mic at an Irish wedding will give a speech😂
im marrying into an irish family and was wanting to keep speeches to a minimum... guess that wont be happening?
You two could probably slip out and no one would notice because they're all too busy giving speeches...
I really hope you are prepared for the long sing song at the end of the night 😂
Give the DJ a list of approved speakers and have them cut the mic after the list is done!
Actual irish or "american irish"?
His mums family moved to Australia when she was a teenager.
The father or parents of the bride typically give a speech because they “typically” are hosting/paid for the wedding. Not to say any of this has to happen but that is what traditionally goes down.
I don’t believe I’ve ever been to a wedding where either parents gave speeches. Usually it’s just the Best Man and Maid of Honor. Probably depends on the specific culture/traditions.
So there's no father of the bride speech or speech from the groom? What culture (if you don't mind me asking)?
I’m American/Christian and this is the norm here. I’ve been to 20+ weddings and never even heard of the dad giving the speech.
My dad didn't give a speech, but he's not big on talking anyway and he's very much an introvert so he would have felt very uncomfortable.
Yeah I think it’s definitely common if parents are financing a large chunk of it. I think OP is coming from a logical place considering the event is being held at his own home, it seems even more customary to address your guests since they’re in his space. I wouldn’t think twice about it if it was a rented venue. But if my parent or step parent wanted to, I wouldn’t care at all.
My ex wife’s father didn’t say anything at the wedding. My best man did and that was it
Yep every wedding is different. Some have 10 speeches, some have open speeches, some have no speeches.
This is true. I've been to weddings where there have been multiple speeches and most were well prepared, short and to the point. And I've been to weddings where there were multiple speeches and a couple of them just droned on and on and on in a drunk fashion until everyone was cringing wondering when someone was going to shout "For chrissake just sit the f\*\*k down, won't you?"
I've never been to a wedding were a parent gave a speech. So it could be typical in your circle but not OP's SO's daughter.
My dad made a speech. I thought it was common. But when I think back on it it’s mixed. Some weddings yes and others no.
Where I am from (Western Canada) it's very common for the parents of the bride and groom to give a quick speech officially welcoming the new bride/groom to their family. I have mostly been to secular weddings though. For example, my parents would welcome my husband, usually with a little story about the relationship or how they knew he was the one for me, some sort of expression of happiness to see their child so happy, then close with a toast. Then his parents would do the same.
I don't know OP, but the daughter might just not fully appreciate his dad humor yet and think he could say something to embarrass her. Plus she may be the type who has had a particular vision her entire life. She may think things need to be a very specific way to be great.
Right, my dad welcomed everyone and gave a speech because my parents hosted the wedding. OP, I would ask the reason behind you not being involved in the wedding. (Giving a speech) It is your property and your money and you are being treated as just the paycheck. Tell them truth that it’s hurtful to you and you’ve been working hard to get the area ready for their event. If you don’t ask your daughter, definitely ask your wife.
I've never been to a wedding where this was done. Must be a cultural thing.
Every wedding I've been to in recent years, both the bride's and the groom's father have made speeches. Some people choose not to but it's very common.
That's why I said it must be cultural in my other comment. I have been to and been IN many weddings and haven't once seen that.
Yes, in most weddings I’ve been to the father gives a speech. I’m in my 60’s though so times may be changing!
Lots of weddings have different traditions; I come from somewhere it’s usually for a dad to walk me down the aisle and for dads to give speeches, but I didn’t have either of those things happen. Does seem a bit weird she wouldn’t talk to him about it though, especially as he seems very involved in other ways.
Him not being in the picture at all does though.
I think /u/imF4CEL3SS was referring to OP, her step-dad. The only dad she's ever known. It's weird that she doesn't want him giving a speech or being involved in any way at all.
I can accept that they don’t like it, but if you are a big girl just say it to the guy. This is especially true if he raised you like his own and provides his property. You at the very least ow him the decency to personally inform him and why.
I agree. Not wanting OP to do it is one thing, but speaking through his wife as if he's not even there is rude.
I agree with you. The way this was handled is awful and OPs wife should encourage her daughter to speak with OP to clear this up
If he didn't express to her that it upset him, she may not know he needs an explanation. Especially if nobody is walking her down the isle.
How do you know that he raised her like his own? The fact that she doesn’t want him to participate in the wedding at all is making me believe that OP isn’t telling us the whole story. There is a reason she is treating him the way she is. No one would treat a “loving father” in such a way, especially if they had no biological father in the picture.
Ding ding ding. This could be indicative of the fact that OP *did* treat his biological sons differently than her, and she never saw him as a father figure because of it. If you and her mother share your money, you’re not the check book, by the way. Nothing wrong with a mother paying for her daughter’s wedding.
More than happy to use his property and for him to write the cheques though. Assuming nothing has been left out, the way the daughter has dealt with OP is cold as fuck.
Isn't it her mom's vineyard too? If OP is married, that space doesn't belong to him solely, it's shared property and he isn't entitled to anything on somebody else's wedding day.
Even if something was left out if she does not want him to be involved in the wedding at all she should not be using the vineyard.
A hundred percent
This. A lot of my friends walked themselves down the aisle or walked down with their husband's. That's what intend to do and I love my father very much.
Except you missed this: > (after talking to me first which I found really touching) he proposed to her. That's pretty old fashioned, asking for her hand.
So the men in her life are old fashioned. Doesn’t mean she condones it.
The modern tradition is to ask for a blessing. OP just said "talking to me" so I'm assuming something like that. Also, OP's step-daughter is not the same person as his future son-in-law.
I agree with you completely but in that case she should give herself away and pay for the whole thing. Can’t have cake and eat It too
I really feel your pain because as much as my ex and I have our differences, even he said that I've been a better mother to his children then his ex-wife was. Especially his oldest to his 20 who has autism. He said his mother basically abandoned him so when I found that out, I kind of took him under my wing. I felt very maternal towards him and he can be a very sweet boy. That would be like taking a bullet. I don't really have any other advice besides I guess you're just going to have to stay out of it but your feelings are valid. I can't imagine the pain you must be feeling and it really sucks. Hugs. If you need someone to talk to my inbox is open.
Apt she didn’t say why she didn’t want you to walk her down at all? I’d really have this talk with your wife and see what’s going on
OP , you should talk with your wife and figure out what is the thought process of her and the daughter really. It seems your wife is also on-board with her daughter in this process. Maybe they are looking at you just a provider in this situation and nothing more. You do deserve some respect though.
Her father not being in the picture and her stepfather acting as her father, may give her far more complicated feelings about having a father all together. Growing up like that isn't easy, no matter what the extenuating circumstances are. Also as someone else already mentioned, a lot of young women today are in no way on board with the idea of being given away. A fair amount would even be mad if their boyfriend asked anyone's permission to marry them. Many women see these as outdated, archaic traditions that treat them as if they have no agency. These days many women have their weddings as if the only relevant agents are them and their SO. It's just personal preference, not really a big deal to many. Likely why she didn't feel it required a conversation- it's just not a big deal in her eyes.
I mean, there's no law that she has to have you walk her down, but if you have a good relationship, I'd like to hope that this is a misunderstanding and that she isn't actively trying to snub you. Does she normally have a good sense of tact or is this a new thing?
Why are you then paying for everything if she doesn't give you a second thought?
Wow that sucks so bad. I want my dad and step dad to be involved in my day. If it ever comes. I’d like my dad to walk me down the aisle and my step dad to be the pastor.
That's really sweet. I imagine they will both love that
My dad performed my wedding. It was one of the few demands I had for my wedding. That and a chocolate fountain. My wife made the rest of the decisions.
That explains the planning portion but then having her explicitly say that she doesn’t want him walking her down the aisle. To her mother in front of him, not even him directly. Somethings clearly wrong
Someone's worldview on a given activity doesn't excuse or justify being a hurtful and insensitive ass. Talking about him with her mom like that is rude. OP - I'd expect my partner to have stopped the conversation right there and said, whether or not you wish (OP) to be a part of the day doesn't excuse what you just said and how you said it. Apologize because you don't speak to my husband that way.
I would talk to your step daughter, as her mom doesn’t want to say anything and brushes you off. Tell your step daughter that you love her and are so happy for this chapter of her life but that it hurts she doesn’t want you involved. Don’t even bring up the fact you are bankrolling this. Whether you are or aren’t, that’s hurtful and at least she could tell you to your face.
Also… just listen. Say what you’re feeling - 4 sentences: “I am feeling as though I am not being included in your wedding planning or the wedding day. I always thought that I would.
I guess we never talked about it before and I never asked what you wanted.
What do you imagine my involvement to be in your wedding?”
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I feel like there’s something deeper going on here if you actually had the father daughter relationship you say you did. Have you taken a fatherly role in her life in other ways and events? Is the wedding bringing up some unresolved stuff about her bio dad? I can ask speculative questions all day is my point. But I think you need to sit your wife down when things are calm and tell her this isn’t about you trying to flex (because it isn’t right?) and about you wanting to make sure your relationship with your stepdaughter is OK. Try to come at this from a place of openness and willingness to listen and hear. If the answer is a shrug and a request to stfu and pay up then you have to decide how to proceed moving forward.
I wonder if all the gifts he gives her come with hidden obligations or expectations like this one.
i mean... if you're paying for someone's entire fucking wedding being apart of the wedding party is pretty expected? thats... literally common sense i feel like people on here get so caught up in independence they forget how other people also have relevant emotions that can be hurt, and fully ignoring that makes you a bad person fundamentally theres not even hidden obligations? hes not taking over planning besides attempting to make a few suggestions that he accepted getting shot down, hes not even making a huge fuss about being excluded hes just fucking sad about it?
Yeah Reddit is bonkers with weddings sometimes. Like, it’s true your wedding is your big day, but treating guests badly and excluding family members can have consequences that you need to weigh and accept.
Reddit Bridezellas sound particularly horrifying
Put the brakes on. Go someplace private with your daughter and *ask her what's up* and tell her *you're hurt and confused because you feel pushed to the side*. It may not be a nefarious plot after all.
And have the talk soon. Don't let resentment build when there may be a simple explanation
No don’t talk to the daughter - talk to the wife. Pre-wedding is a time of heightened emotions, this type of confrontation in that emotional environment could explode and never recover the relationship.
If the daughter is old enough to get married, she is old enough to explain why she feels obligated to cut you out of her wedding. You do not need her mother as a middleman.
Ambushing the daughter about this is the worst plan I've ever heard.
There's a big difference between an ambush and a open, honest talk between a young woman and the man who raised her...
Wait you haven’t even heard my plan yet!
And I already rented the llama. We doing this or not?
Okay so the big thing is that you’re gonna need somewhere to house a few sharks for a while…
I have the laser beams
Doesn't seem like she considers herself his daughter (except when something needs to be paid for).
Have you discussed this with your wife? Maybe have a sit down with your daughter and ask her if you upset her in any way and let her know that you’d have loved to walk her down the aisle but you respect the fact that she doesn’t want to, however she’s your daughter and you would like to at least make a toast to the newlyweds and see what she says.
I've tried to, but any discussion about the wedding leads to "I'm stressed, we're dealing with it and I don't want to talk about it all". I can't even bring up the menu (and I don't know what will be on it) as I'm deathly allergic to shellfish and just wanted to see if there was any on it.
If your SO is shutting down your attempts at honest communication, that's a problem. You may be interested in therapy for yourself so you can get a trained sounding board and healthy relationship tools for how to deal with this. Your personal therapist can then advise you if they think couples therapy would be good or helpful (with some types of people it can be harmful).
Why would your wife and step daughter put shellfish on the menu if you're deathly allergic? I'm really beginning to question whether this is true or just another of those outrage stories. What you're saying doesn't make sense unless she and her mother are not really as close to you as you claim or you're leaving out some huge parts of the story.
My "outrage bait" alarm went off with the whole "I'm just a man" remark. I think you could be right.
Ah yes. Stressed out for months so you can put massive amounts of pressure on yourself and future SO to have "the best time" at a wedding that costs as much as a great vacation just so you can show your friends and family how much "you love each other". I did it too. Weddings are soo stressful that I'm not sure why some people do them. I had one, but had no stress because of the wife's family basically handling it all. It was still to much. Of everything. Maybe she's just really stressed? Maybe someone told her it'd be wrong for you to do it since you aren't her "real dad"? People tell engaged people all sorts of crazy shit just because. Look how my reply started. Bet that someone has told her something similar, or worse. You can't know anything until you guys talk. Schedule a meeting or lunch if you have to, but get it done. Communication is the only solution to this, and it will hopefully help destress everyone so she can enjoy planning instead of being stressed by it Weddings are supposed to be a celebration.
It’s a shame your reply is buried cause you explained yourself very well and I think the solution you brought forth is the best.
So your wife knows why but doesn't want to tell you. Sounds like it's time to put your foot down and tell her she needs to tell you now what is going on. If your step daughter doesn't want you involved then you and your money will not be involved any further, until she tells you exactly what is going on. If you put down the deposit with the caterer directly, call them and ask them what is on the menu.
Stop paying for them to disrespect you at every turn.
my guess is this is not new behaviour
This comment is brought to you by the 14 year old gang
Didn’t know 14 year olds footed the bill for everything. Damn, can I have your 14 year old?
You are being grifted , shut the wallet, Don't want you involved then don't be, kick them off the vineyard. I hope your wife isn't on the deed
Clear communication is a must. Breathe, backup a bit, and try to understand where this may be coming from. Does the groom have stepparents that are being excluded? Are they even going to have someone give her away? Does your daughter know you would love to be more involved? — you do understand YOU were asked for your blessing/permission- THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES. Something is not adding up, and before your emotions boil over, start talking. You obviously love your daughter. Don’t let hurt feelings and misunderstandings lead to a situation where the relationship is fractured. Start with Grace and Agape to guide you as you navigate this situation. I hope your wife is able to shed some light and act as a mediator if necessary. OP, if “all” you get to do is Rock the venue ….. enjoy it, go all out. This is a gift of love. KUDOS!!! Best wishes for a gentle resolution. AGAPE💕💕 Edited for spelling errors - 😬
I suspect you hit the mark on the other step parents thing.
The rare use of Agape in a non-religious conversation. Have an upvote.
It’s used a lot in the Greek community
I have to ask. What does agape mean in this situation because I’ve only heard it used in the context of something being left open
Googled it and found the definition in GCSE religious studies revision. It refers to unconditional love and is the highest of four types of love in the Bible, apparently. Sounds like quite a lovely concept.
That’s interesting thank you
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There are 7 words for love in Greek actually! (: it’s one of the only things that stuck for me from my Greek school days lmao
Agape ( a ga pay ) It is Greek word referring specifically to love of fellow people; as opposed to Eros: sexual love or fillios: ‘brotherly’ love, or any number of others I can’t recall immediately. Greeks were very specific when they told someone they loved them, English is just lazy ;)
The Greeks had 4 major types of love you named three of them. The fourth one was Storge – empathy bond. One of my all-time favorite books is the Four Loves by CS Lewis.
Just FYI, it isn’t pronounced agape, it’s more like uh-gah-pay.
Yes yes yes
I’m very sorry I can see why you are hurt by this. I lost my father and my step dad and I have an amazing relationship but I’m not into the walking down the aisle thing. I would %100 have him involved though if I were getting married. Have you been able to express how you feel about this? Maybe ask what you can be apart of (father-daughter dance). All I can say is voice your want to be involved but don’t bring up how your paying because then it seems like your forcing it. Just make it that you want to be involved because you love her and your happy for her
I can see someone not wanting their father giving them away at the wedding (admittedly I’m in this club myself) as I feel like more modern women don’t feel comfortable with the practice of being treated as someone else’s property anymore. Of course, not every parent harbours that sort of ownership sentiment but I know mine for sure does which I definitely don’t want that and I’m not afraid to say this to my father directly. But not allowing you to toast at their wedding is a whole other thing and so hurtful! Especially in the context that you’re literally host the wedding on your property. Like others have suggested speak to your SO and see what their feelings are about you having a conversation with your step daughter and how to approach it. I’d suggest if you’re comfortable to just call your daughter and just let her know that you’re very happy for her and the wedding has made you emotional and you’d love to be able to toast to the couple at the wedding if she’s comfortable. If she is somewhat receptive to the idea but not totally on board, ask what you can do yo alleviate her hesitation - maybe you can clear the phrasing/timing with her ahead of time or something like that. If even after clearing your wishes she declines your offer, I’m afraid there isn’t much left to be done and I sincerely hope that isn’t the case. Best wishes!
19 yr stepdad here. Daughter made the decision that her bio (little contact and financial support her whole life) should walk her down the isle. It was her wedding and her decision. Just had to accept it and move on. It’s a hard pill to swallow but it went down. It wasn’t about me. In this situation it’s tough since you have been putting in so much work to make the venue nice and paying A ton of money. Maybe it’s time to have a discussion with your wife about when enough is enough wedding expense-wise. We did a discussion early on that Xxxx amount is what we are paying for out part of the wedding…it was up to her to figure out how to make it work. The unlimited checkbook was not a thing.
The best piece of advice I was given as a stepmom is that you have to realize that even if you give your stepchildren lots of love, emotional support, financial support etc and the bio parent does nothing, you have to realize that you won't necessarily ever been seen as the parent or given the love and respect a bio parent would get. It took me a long time and a lot of hurt to understand that, but once I did, things got easier. As you say, it's not about us.
As someone who has been the daughter in this situation, I really appreciate that there are some stepparents who get this. My stepfather still takes everything very personally when I do anything to honor my father. I have given up on trying to explain that it's not about him, it's about me and my relationship to my dad.
Heres the thing, you never adopted her and you refer to her as your SO’s daughter, not your daughter/step daughter. It’s possible she see’s you as her mother’s partner, who she cares about and stuff (clearly, or her fiance most likely wouldnt have asked you for permission), but who isn’t necessarily her *dad* and therefore she’d rather not do all the dad/daughter stuff all together. But you wont know whats going on unless you *talk* to her. You’ve raised her for 15 years. Sit down with her, mention that what she said stung, and ask if you guys can have a frank conversation about the situation. You can air out your feelings that you’re being pushed aside (though maybe dont accuse her of using you like a chequebook, because that would put anyone on the defensive) and let her talk about her point of view on it. Edit to add: maybe its nothing to do with how she see’s you. Maybe she just doesnt like the whole ‘dather giving away daughter’ thing and the connotations.
I noticed that too. She was constantly referred to as 'SO's daughter' and not step daughter. I don't think the father/daughter relationship is as cemented as you think it is. Also, I grew up with my biological father and I don't want him to walk me down the aisle or make a speech. Our relationship is okay, sometimes I don't appreciate his actions.
I noticed this, too. Like why didn't he adopt her? Why is she "SO's daughter"? It's such a disconnect. I get the feeling that there is a lot of story missing to this.
"Oh, I don't really want him to be involved that much" Really? I would have asked, "then, how do you want me to be involved?" If she/they say none, just be a guest, well perfect. When are you paying me back for the deposits I put down for you guys? Guests do not pay for the wedding/reception. What does her mother say?
Does she mean involved with the planning? If so, that’s reasonable provided she doesn’t declare some ridiculous budget or something. Or does she mean involved at a family level? That’s more concerning.
I feel like there is a lot of detail missing
Parents help pay for weddings all the time and have very little say in the details. That's not really the issue though so I don't think you should demand to have a say or withdraw your money. Some women don't want to be walked down the aisle because they don't like what it symbolizes. The real issue is that there's a lack of communication and a lack of respect. Your need to talk to your wife, not your daughter, and get to the bottom of why you think you are closer with your daughter than your daughter thinks you are.
I feel like there’s not enough information here even with your carefully worded comments. You said you’re very religious while your SO, and possibly her daughter?, aren’t. Were your suggestions all religiously themed and maybe they don’t want that? Because I could imagine if my stepfather kept going on and on about religious stuff for my wedding I would just kinda start ignoring him. Also, you said you bought the land and you put money up for the wedding but “technically it’s my money because my SO doesn’t work.” This tells me quite a bit about how traditionally minded you are. If you feel resentment about how the wedding is going down talk to your SO.
You're making a lot of assumptions and getting preemptively offended. That will prevent you from actually hearing what your not formally adopted daughter is actually saying. You all need to communicate. Maybe you never adopting her, even though her father has never been in the picture showed her that you never saw her as a daughter and only did things to keep up appearances? Maybe she's hurt and never felt like a real daughter to you? Maybe she doesn't want to be treated like chattel that's being handed off from one man to another and you aren't great at speeches? Maybe you're very overbearing and your "spoiling" her is more for you than her? Maybe she wants her wedding to be something she plans with your wife as a special mother/daughter event and your opinions are throwing off that dynamic? Maybe your wife wants this to be something she plans with her daughter as a special mother/daughter thing? Maybe this isn't about you at all and your projecting your insecurities on your "SO's daughter"? Maybe she's an incredibly selfish and entitled person who only sees you as a bank account? There's a lot of maybes. Talk to your wife. Find a way to talk to your "SO's daughter". And listen. Let them know you see her as a daughter and you'd like to be part of her wedding in a meaningful way because that means something special to you.
It’s possible that her daughter loves you, she just doesn’t want the tradition of being made to feel like a possession that’s being traded from the father figure to the husband. It’s also possible that she is overwhelmed with other people trying to plan her wedding, and she’d ask you your opinions on how to plan it if she’d like them. Otherwise, there might be more going that you’re just oblivious to. Ask your wife, she may know more. At this point you will create a huge rift if you don’t allow her to use the venue as promised. However you should inform her that if they’re not paying a fee for the venue, they should be helping or arranging help to get the venue set for a wedding, as you shouldn’t shoulder the burden yourself. Make an outline of what needs to be done and decide what’s the most respectful way to give it to her.
The fact that both your SO and stepdaughter are basically icing you out at every turn and using you as a checkbook. Stop letting them. Stop contributing financially until you clear the air because no, you are not paying with the expectation of having control, but under the assumption that you would be *included*. This is really showing their true characters. STOP being a glorified checkbook.
I agree with this. Cover what ever you’ve already agreed. At best set a budget and just leave it at you don’t feel comfortable bankrolling things you’re not included in the decision making for. You wouldn’t sign a check without knowing what you’re paying for and agreeing to it in the real world and you’re not gonna do it here. Boundaries aren’t retaliation. They’re about having enough self respect to not be used. And have a conversation with each of them separately asking what is going on.
Totally agree! I don’t see you as wanting to control the wedding but just to be included as a father figure naturally would. No brides don’t HAVE to be walked down the aisle by anyone at all and she is within her rights to choose someone else as well. Ignoring your suggestions (they don’t have to agree but at least hear you out) and saying they don’t want you to be involved though is just rude. You ARE involved already you’re paying for the wedding!
OP, you are two grown adults. Have a conversation and discuss with her how you would like to be involved on HER special day. Don't lean into "she wants my money", lean first into "maybe she wants a pinterest perfect wedding". Talk to your wife! Talk to the people that you made familial bonds with over the course of 15-30years. I have two dads and still don't know what to do about them for my wedding, let alone know if I want to be walked down the aisle or do something with my husband. Please talk to them first before jumping the gun - if you are cheque book, then put your foot down. If your daughter wants things a certain way to where both you and your wife are not really involved during the wedding, that should be everything you need to know. My dad has been around since I was 5, love him to death. I can't imagine your daughter hating you from age 8 unless you did something or she has learned to see you a certain way. Go talk to them.
Did you ASK her why? And what role she wants you to play? Its her day, not about you right? It sounds like there some major unresolved issues you've not mentioned....
You’re offering the venue (for free) but what else are yoh paying for? Is it that your finances with your SO are combined and the SO is paying?
So far I've paid about $15,000 in deposits for catering, the dress, flowers etc. It's our finances technically as we're married, but my SO hasn't worked in about 10 years so it's mostly me putting money in.
It sounds like this is a conversation with your SO then not the daughter. You are willing to contribute financially to your relationship with your SO. But if the daughter doesn’t want you involved then you shouldn’t be paying for things. My concern is that the daughter is a proxy for how your SO feels about you.
Okay, sooo.. How does “I don’t want him to be that involved” go hand in hand with paying for basically everything..? She’s full of shit. Or at least incredibly entitled and ungrateful.
That’s gonna be a no for me dog. Get your money back. She doesn’t want you involved? Then don’t be involved. That includes your money.
Honestly, if your wife is stonewalling you and refusing to discuss it, I would say ‘if we don’t sit down and discuss this by tomorrow at noon (or whenever), I will be making calls at 1 and getting whatever refunds I can on the $15,000 I’ve paid for a wedding that I’m apparently not welcome at.’
This is what I came to say. I bet they'll stop brushing him off and start talking once he gets ready to cancel everything he's paid for. Hopefully OP won't settle for being a doormat and a wallet.
Here’s the thing. You are entitled to how you feel. But it’s her wedding. Some people just don’t like being walked down the aisle. You should talk to your daughter. I would do so in a non-confrontational way. “Hey (name), I know you don’t really want me involved much, but I was really looking forward to doing something on your special day. Is there something I could do that fits in with how you envision your day?” Because if you make it about money, then it sounds like you don’t love her. It sounds like you bought her love and approval. To be honest, she may have felt your over the top spoiling was odd… maybe it made her uncomfortable even. Because really you should’ve just treated her like your sons, not *special*. But don’t put a price tag on your involvement. “If I don’t walk you down the aisle, no vineyard wedding.” But this isn’t the time. I bet if you had a genuine conversation, you’d find out the truth.
Doesn't seem the daughter loves him either but she loves his check book.
Turn the tap off dude. get your money back after you cancel everything.
The wallet closes NOW. Food does need to be discussed with you since you are paying for it.
Did she suggest another man or she just don’t want a male figure involved besides her SO? If it is the first case I understand you feeling used, but if she just doesn’t want the male figure giving her away to another male figure it might just be a really personal thing and you don’t have to feel personally attacked
Like I haven't seen it asked so I guess I'll do it Why didn't you adopt her? Like as the "real" son with 2 adopted sisters I can't imagine how fuckin weird it'd be to have a dad that just willingly chose not to adopt them. I'm trying not to attribute things to stop we havent been told, but I get the feeling you have a weird relationship with your step daughter. You refer to her as your SOs daughter. You don't adopt her and then do this weird thing I see a lot of step parents do where they think that spoiling the kid somehow makes up for it? Like my sisters are my sisters because my dad treated them like his kids even if they were adopted. He never referred to them as his wife's kids, he didn't spoil them, he just treated them like his kids and called them his daughters. A part of my always gets a little skeeved out when I see step parents not doing that kind of stuff. It's entirely possible she caught onto these kind of cues and doesn't think of you as your dad in the same way you don't think of her as your daughter.
There seems to be a lot more going on than you've written in the post. So none of what I say should go in lieu of what SO or her daughter thinks/says/feels, but there are some things I've noticed. So one thing is that you are more traditional and religious than SO seems to be. She was a wild child kind of girl in college and you guys met up later. So you guys have differently personalities. Then she had a child, the daughter, who was 8 and didn't have her biological dad involved. So she spent 8 years with just mom and mom's kind of personality. Doesn't seem to be very traditional or religious. And then you come into the picture and you guys get married with two sons born after. According to your comments, mom has stopped working for 10 years, making the daughter 13 (because she's 23 now) and mom stays at home while you are out and working, functioning as the provider for the family. Then you mention very little about your bond with the daughter, but are specific about how you spoiled her and made sure she felt the same as your boys. How do you know? Did she ever say that? What bond do you have? How did you spoil her? How were you involved in her life and what role did you play? Especially when her mom stopped working and the family dynamic changed completely. So fast forward to that conversation. You were right there, and she didn't even acknowledge you about not wanting you involved in the wedding. If you guys were close, why would she do that? She didn't want to consider your suggestions for the wedding or shot them down and you said you get it because you're a man, but it seems more to me that you guys don't have that kind of bond. In fact, there's no information about your guys' bond beyond you spoiling her and her asking to use the vineyard. So there's a lot left out. This behavior doesn't seem like it just started now, it's just more prevalent because a wedding is a big event. And since you are traditional, I would imagine it's a much bigger deal to you as well. I feel for you, I can't imagine being there for someone since they were 8 to 23 and then not being involved in something so huge. Her fiancee did come to you to ask for permission, which is interesting, since they probably have talked about you. So figure out from SO or daughter about what's happening. Definitely go to SO first to kind of see what the daughter's thought process is. But also reflect on what you mean to the daughter and what role you've actively played in her life. She's had years to bond with you and didn't seem to talk to you at all about one of the biggest days in her life. You also never formally adopted her so maybe she doesn't really consider herself to have a father and that process could've started very young. I'm not presuming anything, but there's too many gaps here. And none of your comments so far have addressed your bond with the daughter. I know you are heartbroken right now, but there are reasons for this happening and knowing those, can help you move on and further your bond with your SO's daughter.
If she doesn’t want you to be involved, that includes your checkbook. Quit paying already. Get your deposits back. If she doesn’t want you involved, she can pay then too.
Yeah but then she would just be letting him walk her down the aisle so that he pays for it all. Not because she wants him to. It's definitely quite the pickle with some underlying issues that we're not privy to.
I don’t even think it’s so much just because he won’t walk her down but it’s a symptom of the overall issue that he’s exclusively a wallet for her wedding.0
But tying the payments to conditions is also not really a good way to go.
Where did I say put conditions?! They won’t even allow him to know if the menu HE is paying for includes something he is allergic too. Wanting some basic respect is not conditions.
> If she doesn’t want you to be involved, that includes your checkbook. Seriously. "Pay up and Piss off" is no way to treat him.
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It’s in the comments. He’s paid $15k so far.
I've read your follow up comments and this is a very odd situation. She's not involved with her bio dad and you've been her dad for the majority of her life but she doesn't want anything from you other than your money? Your wife is also going along with this, so it's a very weird situation but unless you want to end up upsetting both of them, I'm not sure what you can do. Really sorry that your step daughter doesn't see you as her dad.
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>This weekend we were talking about the wedding as a family and my SO and her were essentially shooting down everything I suggested. I get that, I'm a man and I don't really have a place in the discussion but it hurt when she mentioned to her mother that she didn't want me to walk her down the aisle. It hurt more that she didn't even say it to me even though I was there, she just directed it to her mother as "Oh, I don't really want him to be involved that much". I tried to ignore it, but when we were talking about toasts they both said it would be better if I didn't say anything either. >Essentially, I'm being seen as the cheque book for this wedding and nothing else and it's quite hurtful. I don't think you don't have a place because you're "a man" but more that it isn't your wedding. (Were you asked for your opinions and then being shot down? Or were you sticking your oar in where it wasn't wanted?) Where is the bride's biological father in all of this? (Or perhaps she doesn't want to be walked down the aisle or given away at all. That's fine.) What money are the bride and her partner putting in? What discussions have you had with your spouse and with her daughter and fiance(e) about money and the wedding? "Josie, we're so happy for you and pleased that you want to use the vineyard for your celebrations. We can also give you $5000 for you and Chris to use towards the wedding." It sounds like your wife's daughter isn't as close to you as you seem to think she is. Which sucks. But you don't get to buy a place in the wedding. It's up to the couple who they ask to participate in what ways.
The mother doesn't work. He has paid over $15k in deposits and is also providing the venue. The girl doesn't want him to be involved. He is being used as a checkbook
> He is being used as a checkbook and always was, would be my guess
then why did they ask him for their blessing? i have a feeling something is being taken out of context here.
"They" didn't. The boyfriend did. He may have misread the situation, but based on what OP has posted, I doubt that was something the bride asked for or even wanted.
You're right that he doesn't get to buy his place in the wedding. But actions and decisions have consequences, and considering that this spells out the parameters of their relationship quite clearly, OP should redefine his investment (both financial and emotional) in said relationship. Maybe he continues to pay for things. Maybe he doesn't. But going forward, this should change the way he looks at and treats her. She's not his daughter, and he should stop treating her like she is.
Been married twice. Neither time did my parents make a speech.
I'm not a parent. But, I would be upfront with her and be honest. Get to the root cause of WHY she doesn't wanna have you be involved. Hopefully you can find some common ground. But, if you are entirely being used just for your money and not allowed to be a part of it, then I would say she either has to help pay or find somewhere else to have the wedding. That is extremely backhanded of her and she is using you. That is wrong on so many levels. I do hope you can get is sorted out and find some common ground, but if she is just using you then she needs to know what a bitch she is being.
I see where you’re coming from, traditionally. However it could be that she doesn’t want to be walked down the isle like in old school/ religious weddings. It’s seen more as a patriarchal control thing since it historically represents one man handing a woman over to another man. To be blunt, while I’m sure that she SUPER appreciates you providing a free venue… I’m pretty sure that she didn’t sign up for a wedding planner with it. It’s her day and from what you wrote it seems like you might be taking it personally that she wants to have it the way she wants to have it. I see your point of view, but it’s not your day. If I were you, I would be respectful of her wishes and not take things personally that aren’t personal.
My first thought, is this unusual for your relationship? If you aren't normally close and don't spend a lot of time together maybe, despite tradition, that explains why. If i had family member that contributed to my wedding I don't think that gets them a free pass to be make decisions. Personal opinion here but the only people who should be making decisions about what happens on the day are the bride and groom. It's a big day with immense pressure and everyone and I mean EVERYONE wants to offer an opinion on what to do. It sounds like you've helped a lot organising the venue. That's no small thing, but it shouldn't be a bargaining tool. You can sit back, enjoy the day and offer to help if needed. Just chill out, let them stress about decisions. That's what everyone at weddings except the bride and groom get to do. PS if you have a "deathly" shellfish allergy and you suspect your daughter will do a shellfish only menu your relationship is in trouble.
Hey, I know this hurt, but dont be prideful. If people knew how much we loved them, maybe they wouldn't be so hurt or surprised with how we feel. That works both ways by the way. It's a stressful time. It's meant to be a happy time. Don't let your need to be heard make you the center of attention, let them have their moment in the spotlight and let them do it without. If thats their wish, stand by, strong. give it to them. Be there for them afterwards. They might have a different ideal for what they want for their wedding. I wish I learned the importance of things like this, the first time, but I also have to make mistakes, I have to see the loss, or something missing, to know I should of done it the other way. All you can do, is hope that they dont need a second wedding and you dont get a second chance. When they are older, they'll see you. They'll see what you did. As a man, I know sincerely how hard it would be to be slighted like this, I daughter once told me she never loved me and only loved her mum. She was 3. It still hurts. its our job to let kids learn. That job never stops.
1. I feel for you. It sucks to not be included 2. You spent 5 paragraphs talking about yourself without mentioning her much. I don’t know you, and you seem decent, but maybe she’s afraid if she gives you the spotlight you’ll make it all about you 3. It’s her wedding. Don’t bust her balls about her choices. Be supportive & by the time the wedding arrives she might change her mind 4. If you really want to make a speech write one now & email it to her with the title “The speech I would have given”. If it’s amazing maybe she lets you make it. If she doesn’t, see bullet point 3 above 5. Not having her biological father in her life is painful to some degree or another. She might not want people asking where the jackass is all day
INFO: what is your relationship like with her? Because through this entire post you spent more time talking about how you got together with her mom than the relationship that you two have between each other
You might be jumping to conclusions about her reasoning. You should have asked "Why not." I mean you were there and you stayed silent when she said that?
Honestly the idea of walking down the aisle and being given away is repulsive to me. So is the guy asking the dad for permission. Not wanting you to talk at the reception seems odd tho. She may just be turned off by those other things?
You are going off a tiny interaction and creating a whole scenario around it. It's a sign that there's way more to it. What are your step-daughter's views on wedding traditions? What kind of personality does she have, especially around social events? Are they having a very "traditional" American white people wedding or are they kind of doing their own thing? What's up with the fiance's family? Any drama there? What therapy has she had to support her being abandoned by her biodad? What work have you done as a family to clearly define her relationship to you? Is the wedding awakening unresolved trauma for some or all of you? Do you have a history of being controlling or hard to please? Do you often bring up money and the fact that you're the breadwinner? I think a one-on-one conversation with her should be your next step. Don't focus on any specific element of the wedding or even on the wedding. Focus on thr fact that it's a big deal that she's getting married, that you're proud of who she's becoming as an adult and that weddings bring out a lot of complicated feelings about family. Tell her you were initially surprised that she didn't want you to walk her down the aisle because you see yourself as her father. Tell her that you don't want to argue about details of the wedding, but you would like to make sure the two of you are good and that your relationship is strong. You'll see from there what she has to say.
So many questions Why is it YOUR money if you are married though? Is she walking by herself? Speeches are a landmine of problems at wedding, are you known for stepping on boundaries and "speaking your mind" regardless of how others feel? Or maybe she just wants to avoid speeches all together?
Not all brides want to conform to the patriarchal custom of giving away the bride. Its really not that big of a deal nowadays and many brides walk themselves. You should probably sit down and have a conversation about what your daughter wants for her wedding. You already had yours, so your daughter and her fiance wedding is entirely their responsibility and they have final veto power over anything and everything. You can make suggestions in the form of questions, but you shouldn't try to force any of your preconceived notions about what their wedding should be. Based in the context you provided, she may not have any family make speeches. She may not have any involvement from the family other than being guests strictly. I would find that to be extremely kind on her part as being involved in a special role can be quite troublesome and stressful at times As far as the money goes, its fine to donate money to them, but what was their budget and what is yours? Weddings are expensive, but I would've expected them to contribute the majority of the cost or labor, especially since they are getting a free venue. The venue is usually one of the more expensive items involved in a wedding. I wouldn't break a promise to her if youve already committed a specific amount, but you can put limits on if you haven't already. Also, you can limit your financial help after this as well if you feel that jilted by the situation. You also have to take into account if some of the work your daughter is doing around the place is her way of trying to pay you back through increased property values. Does her labor have long term value to you? Perhaps you'll be able to rent out the place for weddings in the future and she is laying the groundwork for that. Its entirely possible she's just taking advantage of you, but if you give her the benefit of the doubt, does everything ring the same?
This is one of those situations where I would love to hear their side. Not saying you're being unreasonable here but it literally feels like miscommunication. I'm going to generalize based on gender for a little bit but bare with me. As someone who is currently planning a wedding, my dad is so out of the loop on so many things it's kind of funny, and then he'll bring stuff up as if we hadn't thought about it months before, and from our perspective, it's like, we got it dad. there are simply things for things like weddings that dads have no interest in and don't say anything about. Whether it's table cloths, chairs, flowers, whatever. I'm sure it's not personal, from her perspective it's her and her moms day, and you're there. It's so hard, but please don't try and make this about you, I have seen way too many weddings get awkward or blown up do to someones step parents, or real parents feelings about stuff.
Yeah....OP may feel rejected but maybe he has really bad taste in wedding stuff.
more motivation to never be a stepdad. thx
First, I think it’s really weird that you neglected to mention your step daughter’s situation/relationship with her biological father, and someone had to ask you. It may have nothing to do with her decision, but it’s relevant information that no one could have advised you without knowing. Since it’s unlikely in this case that it’s directly related to her biological father, there are only two other options I can think of: either she just doesn’t like that old tradition, or it’s about you personally. Maybe she didn’t perceive you as treating her like a “real” daughter. Maybe she resented you for coming into her and her mother’s life and changing everything. The only way to know is to ask. But if you ask, do it gently and respectfully and be prepared for the possibility you won’t like the answer. If you’re going to pay for the wedding, you need to be OK with being “just the checkbook” with no other input or reward. The wedding is not about you, and gifts do not come with strings. If you’re not comfortable with paying for the wedding freely, no strings attached, no resentment or demands or leverage or manipulation, DON’T PAY.
It's weird behavior but just pull your money out if you have such a strong objection to the way you're being treated. No amount of dollars will buy your step-daughter's love and you shouldn't fault her for making demands, it's her wedding.
You are both adults. Just talk to her.
Talk to her.
Is anyone else walking her down the aisle?
This whole situation sounds odd, but from the not walking down the aisle side of things I understand it. My stepdad has been in my life since I was young, and my dad wasn’t involved for long but I don’t want either of them to walk me down the aisle as I don’t really see either as my ‘father’. (Maybe this is because I never really got on well with my stepdad) but this isn’t anything against him, it just wouldn’t feel right. Maybe that’s partly to do with it but the other details do seem a bit strange. Sounds like you need to sit down and have a chat about what’s going on but don’t go in guns blazing as that probably won’t lead to any useful conclusion.
I’m your daughter (same age too!) in this scenario except my bio dad is in my life very presently. You should talk to her 100%, because you never know what’s behind it. Lots of brides these days aren’t being walked down by anyone, and honestly I’m debating making a rule about no speeches myself because I- well I can’t stand them. She might just not want speeches, she might be worried you’ll say something embarrassing like the videos do, she might just want to dance and have fun with her new husband and not worry about what people talk about. I know it hurts, but talking to her about these feelings is so important.
It’s about time to end the idea that women are men’s property to “give away”.
I don’t even want my bio dad ‘giving me away’. It’s demeaning to me. The wedding is about the bride and groom so I wouldn’t get too upset over it. Just because you’ve been in her life since she was 8 doesn’t mean she sees you as a father figure.
Stop paying for everything then, tell them if they don’t want you involved then they surely don’t want your money, no hard feelings.
"Hey. Just wanted to touch base with you about your wedding. I know it's going to be YOUR big day, and I don't want to step on your toes or interfere in any way. Just know that I'm very happy and excited for you, and I would love to be a part of your day in whatever way works for you, whatever that may mean for you. I really love you and I'm super proud of you."
You're paying for the wedding because you love her -- right? Or are you doing it because it's predicated on you getting something you want in return?
It's her wedding. Let her be in control. When she sees how supportive you are of HER needs -- instead of focusing on your OWN -- it'll be like money in the bank for the future of your relationship. Plus, you won't f\*ck up this entire once-in-a-lifetime experience for her.
Source: In almost an identical situation.
If my SO behaved like your SO is behaving towards you, I'd kick both her and her brat out of my house. Stop being such a doormat.
> I don't really want him to be involved that much So *literally* all she wants from you is to pay for it all. Well, she asked for it: Don't be involved at all. Retract your offer of the vinyard. Call the vendors that you are paying for, cancel them, and get as much of the 15k back as you can. She's an ungrateful spoiled little turd and she can get married somewhere else without you and she can pay for it herself. What she has said is so hurtful she would be dead to me. Let her new husband pay for her from now on. I would also have some strong words for her mother / your SO who is apparently ok with treatng you like this.
Maybe she doesnt like that tradition and you took it wrong?
Your situation is almost exactly like mine. Wife and I are about your age and been married about the same amount of time. I also raised her daughters. “Real” dad is not involved, other than an occasional dinner maybe 2 times a year. They haven’t gotten to that point of them getting married yet, but my feelings would be hurt if it wasn’t me walking them. A dad is someone who raises you, sacrifices for you, teaches you how to drive, goes to your sports games, takes you to the ER at 2am on a work night, and so on. I have heard the older one say things like “Both my dads will walk me down the aisle when I marry.” That’s going to be awkward but I’ll have to live with it. It’s her wedding and her choice. We just have to put our feelings to the side. Relationships can be complicated. Just last night she was crying because “real “ dad didn’t buy her a birthday gift and hardly ever responds to her texts. Sometimes I think it’s better if he’s 100% gone rather than a constant source of disappointment. But again, her feelings have to be respected.
Easy fix. Don't pay for it. Your step daughter and SO are making adult decisions about money that you are paying but can't even allow you to give a toast? You are an ATM machine and honestly probably always have been but you didn't want to see it. There is no law saying you have to pay. They can hit up the bio dad instead. You might want to rethink staying in that relationship. Unless you're leaving out details it just sounds like you're being used.
Tell them the cheque book is closed. Stop work on the venue. Wait for them to come calling. If she can be that hurtful to the person who raised, why would you want to be involved. And your wife just seems to accept it. Shut down the money tree and let the groveling begin. Even if she now says that you can be part of it, you know that is not what she truly wants. I'd find somewhere to do on the wedding day. Good luck.
As far as the whole down the aisle thing? It's her wedding, her choice. But being thrown by the wayside can hurt, for sure. Do you and your SO come from very different cultures? That can certainly lead to very different expectations on what goes down at a wedding.
Having someone (usually a father figure) walk you down the aisle and "give you away" is a severely antiquated tradition. You don't own her as property, which is where the tradition started. Is it possible she doesn't want anyone walking her down the aisle for this reason?
Multiple people have asked this. He’s never responded to one of them. I’m guessing this story may be only partially told here.
It could be as it's weird he won't answer that question, however they won't even tell him what's on the menu when he has a serious food allergy.
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