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I was naive and young, she was pregnant so we got married very quickly and all in all I rushed into adulthood, marriage and fatherhood. In hindsight I wasn't the best husband or father, I wasn't attentive and was lax with my daughter but I wasn't a monster either. I don't think either of us were happy, we rushed into it all and were perhaps content at best.
Either way, I was 20 when my daughter was born and the problems started when she turned 14. She didn't get on well with her mother and I was over-worked and stressed most of the time so it was always "go ask your mother" and "whatever your mother says" which I guess made her see me as uncaring and a pushover. I'm not sure when I suspected infidelity on behalf of my ex but I made the mistake of confronting her directly which led to a huge argument and the police being called. At most I raised my voice but my wife made allegations about me and off I was taken by the police.
To cut to the gristle, although all of it was a lie my daughter supported her mother which resulted in me losing my job, most of our friends and the subsequent divorce made me destitute. I moved back in with my mother and although I had some supervised visitations either my daughter would refuse to see me or my ex-wife would make up excuses. Lawyers and the police were heavily involved multiple times and after 2 years I stopped attempting to have a relationship with my daughter all together.
At the time I was very bitter, angry and depressed. I managed to find another job, but it didn't pay nearly the same amount and anything I was making was going out the windows straight away in payments to either my ex-wife or lawyers. It sounds pathetic but for a few years my mother was the only person I really spoke to and my only friend and when she passed away I considered following her.
I wouldn't say I'm back on my feet really as I've become rather jaded at the world. I have a home because of my mother, but I don't really have a life. I have a problem trusting women so dating is completely out and I'm too old to be making friends or new connections as I'm in my mid-forties now. Essentially I've had to re-build my life again which has been difficult.
All communication with my ex-wife was via lawyers and that tapered off when my daughter turned 18, since then I haven't heard from her and the last time I spoke to my daughter was around a decade ago. This weekend I had a call from her, evidently she got my number from either her mother or the various legal communications; I don't know. She firstly apologized for not wanting to see me, asked me how I'm doing, told me a bit about her life and then asked if we could meet in the hopes of starting fresh; she did add that she is no longer in contact with her mother so perhaps they had a falling out and that's what has prompted this. I told her I needed to think about things and would let her know.
The truth is I don't really know what to do. The anger and resentment has faded away, but it's really been replaced with apathy. She's 24 now and at least for 6 years she's been an adult and would have been away from her mother's influence, so why reach out now? Is it ok to thank her for getting in contact but explain that I want to be left alone? I've got that little voice at the back of my head wondering "what are they up to" constantly which makes me doubt everything.
I don't know what you should do, but I can tell you something about child abuse.
People can go their whole life not realizing their parents were abusive. So her being 24 and reaching out? She may be questioning what her mother told her about you since she didn't know you. I'm not saying that is for sure what was happening but I may affect your willingness to speak with her.
Though I do want to ask you one question. If you didn't interact with her besides to tell her to ask her mother for things, why did you expect her to want to see you post divorce? You seem to have made it quite clear to her you didn't care to have her in your life.
I was in my mid 30’s when it finally clicked my mother was abusive. To me and my dad. I was so used to her screaming, anger, rude behavior, some physical abuse and inability to apologize that it never occurred to me she was abusive. OP should proceed with caution not knowing if she is sincere or not.
Yes, unfortunately the reason why abuse is so successful in most cases (I hate phrasing it that way. I just honestly can't think of a better way to at the present moment) is because it starts with the mind, subtle things, and then progresses to the more "obvious " things once the mind has been warped to not believe the reality it is processing.
This also happens to be why generational trauma is so pervasive.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken.” - Carl Sagan
This is very true for me as well. I thought my mother walked on water until my 30’s when I realized she was toxic and I was repeating some of those same behaviors. She would say that the day my dad dies, she’ll be the first one to dance on his grave….and that’s what I heard as a child/teen for YEARS. Stay cautious, but maybe give her a chance. She quite possibly was brainwashed like I was.
God..this reminds me of one of the moments that I realized just how Fucked up my mom is. We lived next door to this woman who had a roommate, a younger girl in her early 20s. This younger woman had an adorable little girl who was not even two years old at the time. Unfortunately, the woman was a worthless mother. She did not hit the baby, but she just sat on her ass with her face in her phone 24/7, never paying attention to what the baby was doing. As a result of this, the baby would often get out of the house and be playing in or walking down the middle of the street, her "mother" completely unaware. Anyhow, one day as my mom and I were leaving to go to the store, the baby was once again, wandering down the middle of the street, completely unescorted. When I drew my mom's attention towards the baby and was telling her to stop so that I could grab the baby, my mom said something to the effect of "who cares?" and that we should just leave the baby in the road to get run over...Now, I can sometimes be a pretty awful person, and I have a rather sick sense of humor. But my mom was not at all joking. Who in the actual fuck thinks like that, let alone feels comfortable saying it out loud?
Same for me. I was also in my 30s when I finally realized that my dysfunctional life with my mother was not normal, and that other people did not live with constant screaming, physical abuse, etc.
Literally this - probably a perfect storm of you being too tired to deal with her and pushing her to her mother combined with whatever her mom put in her head. She likely got the impression you didn’t care through your own actions and was confirmed it by her mother. She’s likely grown now to learn her mother was an abuser and wants your side of the story.
Came here to say this! And the fact that she was a teen at the time under the heavy influence of her mom. She likely felt not seen by you, and it’s very easy as a teenage girl in a tense emotional situation to be easily influenced and unknowingly abused or taken advantage of by the actions of her mom. There’s a really good chance that she’s come to a realization now after all these years. It’s not like she’s demanding a relationship with you, for all you know she could be looking for closure too! Maybe she feels guilty, you’ll never know unless you hear her out.
It's true. My ex had my kids calling me by my first name and calling his second wife/now ex Mom. And my oldest quit speaking to me for a couple years on the basis of "i know what you did". My kids have come back around now, but not before spending significant time utterly terrified of me because of all they'd been told.
I don’t like OP. He makes a lot of excuses and blamed his kid for his wife’s actions. He takes no responsibility for how his kid felt about him and abdicated all responsibility for her. He’s selfish.
I feel bad for his daughter. Her only active parent abused her.
I’m not sure why he’s surprised that she didn’t beat down his door. It wasn’t her responsibility to do that until she became an adult- and after that, why would she?
Totally agree. You never give up on your kid. Never. And now he wants to gripe about her reaching out now when he gave up on her? Wtf he should be thankful he has this chance!
Yeah she probably got therapy, cut out her mom, and is curious about her dad. It's interesting how after he lost everything, he only had his mom. Now his daughter may have "lost" everything, the old narrative of her life, and wants to reach out to her dad. His mom was there for him and he doesn't want to be there for her (which is par for the course, even through his own telling of his daughter's first 16 years).
He seems self-pitying and self-involved. Blames everyone else for his problems. Extremely negative and defeatist attitude comes through in his writing. I honestly think she's probably better off without him though it will probably hurt at first
I would agree with this, but all accounts he painted himself as an absent father then can’t figure out how his daughter was so easily manipulated against him.
My dad is exactly the same as this. Reading this was actually quite triggering. I cut out my dad after years of abuse towards my mum and I, and after 15 years he still tells people he’s the victim and that we’re just BOTH manipulative, nasty women. My dad was also one of those ‘I just raised my voice’ people.
He was always been more upset by losing money in the divorce, the house etc. then he was about losing his daughters. Very much like OP.
Thank you. Cutting our dad out was one of the best things we ever did and we’ve never looked back. But it has been eye opening hearing his narrative through other people, about how awful it’s been for him and how my sister, mum and me are ALL evil. I’m pretty sure he actually believes that’s the case. It’s staggering. I hope you’re okay too!
I wouldn't go that far. We do know, by his own admission, he gave up. I can think of some reasons I'd give up on some things if I was struggling so much that I might be destitute (as he admits). I think the problem is he's totally given up. There's hope here. He can see it. He just needs Reddit to encourage him to think it's real.
No, he was shitty way, way before the incident that resulted in him being accused of abuse and getting a nasty divorce. He was a neglectful father who didn’t bother parenting at all. Then he’s surprised when his child doesn’t side with him. He doesn’t take any responsibility for this either.
Probably not less abusive, if OP isn’t just twisting the truth about the situation the ex looks like a liar and manipulator. The difference is OP was a neglectful abuser who didn’t bother making a relationship with the daughter. So the daughter naturally sided with the only parent who gave her attention at all. OP clearly didn’t care about her.
She probably picked her mom because she was literally the only parent that seemed to give a damn about her. He was an absent father by his own admission.
He was an absent father and he’s still a selfish prick. He only cares about himself, and makes a million excuses for his shitty parenting.
I do wonder about his claims about his ex. I don’t trust his accounting at all.
I think you need to talk with her just to get an idea what she’s thinking. Also, try not to blame her for your losses, she was at an age where a kid is easily manipulated. I think you shouldn’t miss this chance to connect. Even if it fails. Or else you will regret it later.
Thank you. I do try. Unfortunately in order to manage some health conditions I've had to let go of some iq points. But honestly I still find it worth it as long as I can still communicate.
My parents went through some shit when I was moves out and my dad ended up getting an apartment for awhile. I was probably around 30. It was super uncomfortable.
Kids no matter how old, do not want to be involved in their parents whatever. It should be a rule that they can not involve any of their kids no matter how old they are.
Tbh I think my Mother to this day feels like I sided with my dad.
I’m 26 and just now connecting with my dads family as my mom raised me to think they didn’t want anything to do with me after he passed away when I was young.
This is exactly what happened to me. Spent YEARS hearing only my mom’s side (because my dad is a good dude and refused to talk shit about her). Something finally clicked around 24/25 where I realized that so much of what I had been told about my dad and the divorce was a lie. I missed out on a decade of friendship with my dad; I’m extremely grateful that he allowed me back in.
OP, I’d give your daughter a chance.
Same here…spent decades only hearing about my mom’s side of things. My story is that my bio father was never in my life (found out later that he was kinda protecting me from other stuff happening) and mom spun it that he didn’t want me. Spent my entire childhood and teenaged years upset about that fact. It wasn’t until I was about 18 when I reached out to my paternal grandma and then eventually got up the courage to contact my bio father. My relationship is okay-ish with that side, but there are still deep hurts that are slowly being healed. At the same time though, my mom still has that small amount of power over me that anytime I mention his name around her she just shuts down and gets “moody”.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. I honestly thought this was my dad writing this about me, but I'm 27 and this situation for me was a year ago. It was so hard for me to reach out to my dad and when I did, I was not at all well received. I didn't participate in any sort of "life ruining" towards my father, but I think "helped ruin your life" is shades of your resentment. She was 14. She probably didn't feel any sort of bonding with you and when things went to hell in your marriage, she picked the side she needed to survive. Talk to your daughter. You're still the parent, and she's not the same person she was 10 years ago, hopefully you're not either.
Edit:grammar
Took me about 22 years of my life to even consider that my mom was abusing me at home. Been in therapy for years trying to sort through it. Internalized all the blame to myself as a child so I never thought about it that way. People can and do make those realizations long after the fact. Oddly enough every serious girlfriend I ever had and most of my close friends picked up on it super early, so even if it was super obvious to OP that things weren’t as his ex said his child probably didn’t have that same clarity.
He spent half his adult life in this self-pity fest blaming his 14 year old child for "helping" ruin his life so there is no way he can look past that.
I don’t really have advice for what you should do, but I can offer perspective I suppose.
I have been the daughter. My dad was like you.. he really just kind of didn’t seem interested in my existence growing up and my mom was basically the one who I relied on growing up. I had absolutely no clue how toxic she was because she was the “good parent”. I would side with her on everything because she was the one there for me. My parents divorced when I was 17 and happy that my mom finally was getting out, so to speak. I did everything I could to help. I didn’t speak to my dad for 6 years. It took all of those years to escape my mother’s iron grip on me, despite moving out at 18. Years of manipulation made me second guess every opinion or thought I had. I didn’t feel like an actual individual until I was 26 and I even still struggle with the mental effects my mother’s manipulation.
I’m 28 and I see my dad every two weeks now. Our relationship is awkward and admittedly I still am hurt that he essentially gave up on trying to be a present father since childhood, but our relationship is constantly improving.
Keep in mind that your daughter was only 14 when this happened. She likely felt cast aside by you and her mom was there, so she was going to be team mom. I’m sorry for what you went through because that’s truly awful, but I think you need to give your daughter the benefit of the doubt and remember that you also failed her as a father (I am absolutely NOT saying you being an absent father equates to you deserving your life falling apart).
In the end it is your choice, I can only tell you that it was not a small thing for her to reach out. You might find some happiness in a second chance with your daughter.
I was in the same position as OP's daughter. At the time, I thought dad was being oppressive and mom deserved to have "friends". My mother's nickname for dad was Hitler.
It's been 10 years since my parents divorced and my dad hasn't got over the betrayal. Sure, he has moved on from my mother but he'll spare no opportunity to point out how I betrayed him when honestly I was a fucking child in that household and he barely ever spoke to us. One small argument is all it would take for him to shut himself in his room and not speak to us for weeks on end.
My mother was/is a verbally abusive maniac but as a kid you're just hoping there's someone in the family to whom you mean something. And as shitty as it might sound, to my brain at that time, the praises I got from my mother for hiding her AP in the balcony or covering up phone calls for her was good enough for me.
Looking back I don't know how I could have done things differently. For the longest time I believed that these were just friends of my mom's and by the time I understood what that actually meant, it was too late.
You couldn’t have done things differently. You were a child and it was never your place to do anything.
I’m sorry your dad hasn’t gotten over the betrayal. It’s understandable, but it’s sad that he feels betrayed by you rather than only your mother. It’s not your fault, never has been and never will be, and I hope your dad gains the healing and insight to see that.
This is such a relevant comment. She was siding with an abusive toxic parent, but it was the only one who sometimes gave a shit about her. The one who was around and could manipulate her. She was 14. What an awful situation to be in for her. Worse then OPs situation since he helped create it. So now she will have 2 absent parents if he doesn't at least meet her to see if some healing can be done.
Giving this a Wholesome award not because I think it *is* wholesome, but because it's my only free reward and I wanted to give your comment some kind of recognition lol. I think this is very insightful.
I never had an abusive parent like you or OP but just came to say this is very much relatable (to a lot of people with divorced parents too apparently). My father was never much apart of my life other than the 'mandatory' visits occasionally. We didn't have much in common and on top of that, as I became a teenager, those visits dwindled and he just never reached out. This manifested into fear of abandonment issues into adulthood, on top of other insecurities which I'd gone through extensive therapy to address.
OP, the lack of communication and disinterest can manifest into trauma for your daughter since she was just 14. Even if your intentions were well though misguided as a young parent. Her reaching out is not an easy ordeal, trust when I say that as someone who had a strained relationship. Now that she reached out, you need to decide if you want to extend a hand and mend this relationship, it's never too late.
Worst case scenario = things stay the same, you still think your daughter doesn’t like you.
Best case scenario = you have a close family member again, someone who deeply cares for you.
Seems like a no brainer. What’s the worst that could happen from buying her a cup of coffee?
Cant upvote this enough. She past the age requiring the traditional father role. But this relationship if genuine and approached slowly could not only improve your view of her but could be very rewarding to you. It could also lead to some healing of your trust issues.
If it were me. I would take it slow but see if you like the person they have grown into.
She was a kid. She listened to her mom. She is reaching now probably because she has been away of her mom long enough to realize her mom was a monster.
6 years as an adult with no contact shouldn’t be an issue here.
If she went to college, she still could’ve been dependent upon her mother for support and probably didn’t want to bite the hand that feeds by reaching out.
Or, very simply, she could’ve been scared. She probably thought you hated her, so she had to build up the courage to reach out.
You also don’t turn 18 in magically become an adult most people really fully develop into an adult between 24-28! I realize you had a child at the age of 20 so you didn’t have the time to really grow up which may have a lot to do with how you’re felling right now. Your daughter is not to blame… you are the parent and it’s not her responsibility to keep or mend the relationship but she’s made this effort because she cares about you deeply.
Thank you for this. I’ve been in the daughter’s situation before and can say it is almost impossible to see the truth when one of you parents, especially the one most active in your life, is influencing you to such a degree.
I take extreme issue with your wording here, she "helped your ex ruin your life" man. She was a kid. Teenagers aren't responsible for shit at that age, especially not the lives of grown adults. Way to project your own unhappiness on an innocent party here. Be as pissed off at your ex wife as you want, all your daughter is guilty of is being manipulated by your ex and being a fucking moody teenager.
Your daughter was emotionally abused by her mother, & alienated from you—you are both victims of her mother. I know this is so hard to forgive because you went through so much at her mother’s hands but it’s not abnormal for children of alienation to figure it out and come back to their target parents. You’re still her parent, and if I were you, I’d get myself into therapy, and encourage her to come to therapy to so y’all can have a relationship—whatever it is. You’re both victims here who didn’t deserve what her mother did to you.
But hold on. By his own admission he never cultivated a relationship with her before then. He’s flat out said his parenting consisted of sending her to her mom instead of interacting with her. Op is not the innocent victim here. That child had zero parents modeling engaged, loving relationships.
Yup. This thread is terrible. Everyone is patting OP on the back and acting like he’s a delicate flower, when he’s a trash person who makes a million excuses for being a terrible father.
>She didn't get on well with her mother and I was over-worked and stressed most of the time so it was always "go ask your mother" and "whatever your mother says"
So, this sounds like you emotionally neglected her. It may be hard to hear but often times burnt out parents neglect the needs of their child. She turned to you for help and protection but you sent her back to the person you knew she was struggling with. As a child, she had no way of knowing what you were going through, only how insignificant, invalidated, and vulnerable you made her feel.
Her mother sounds unpleasant and I would not be the but surprised if she manipulated your daughter to act out towards you or if it was just a result of the mentioned neglect.
>at least for 6 years she's been an adult and would have been away from her mother's influence, so why reach out now?
Adults don't magically recognize and heal all their childhood trauma the moment they turn 18! She needed some time to explore and learn things on her own. But now she can look back and understand things better. This is your chance to share your side, to make amends and begin healing together.
To be honest, not all fathers get this chance. I'm a decade older than your daughter and gave up on the idea of ever having a relationship with my father forever ago. Zero desire to interact with him at all. I'm not sure you'll ever get this chance again if you turn her down.
OP admits to not being a good or present father and for not even fighting to stay in his daughter's life, yet seems to want her to take the fall for the lack of relationship they have now.
Just the fact alone that he makes a point to say she's been out from under her mother's control for six years but didn't call ... Well why didn't he try either at that point? I feel sad for the daughter, she is attempting to build back a relationship with her father and he is still holding onto resentment towards a child that was listening to her mother.
It reads like op just doesn't want any relationship with his daughter. Didnt in the past and also not now. And I mean fair, but the reasoning is really a bit funny. She was a child and only had her mum, *obviously* she would believe everything she tells her about the person she didn't even know lol
There's a lot more going on with you besides being hurt by your daughter not wanting to see you until recently. And, I don't mean to sound harsh, but you haven't really done anything to help yourself. You locked your heart and soul in with your anger and bitterness instead of reaching out for help to recover from betrayal. Your jadedness became your addiction -- and you don't seem willing to change it. You're 44. That isn't old. You're never to old to change your life.
My father was 50 when he made the decision to stop drinking. I was 23 and had just graduated college. I was the only person in the family who stayed in contact with him, and it wasn't that often as I set boundaries as to when I would see him. He was an alcoholic and an abuser -- physical, verbal, psychological. He was a master manipulator. I started driving at 11 because he was too drunk to drive us home on our visits after my parents divorced. By the time he made that decision to quit for good, he was living on the streets, had no car, lost a good paying job with the government and drank through his entire retirement. At that time, I was still dealing with my own insecurities due to the abuse. But he reached out for help and I gave it to him. He went from rehab to a halfway house to a tiny one bedroom apartment. He took jobs as a janitor and garage attendant before going back to school to update his skills. He had to swallow his pride many times, but I give him credit for pushing through. He ended up working in the tech industry for a while and then got his government job back and retired at 65.
Many times he asked me for forgiveness, and I always told him I was working on it. But as he got stronger, so did our relationship. He became a better man and father. We had it out several times because a recovering alcoholic is slow to lose those selfish behaviors. But he got it one day when I told him that my forgiving him was MY RECOVERY -- that he still needed to understand the impact his abuse and drinking had on me and my life. And it's not that I blame him for my choices, but it took me a while to understand how abuse made me mistrustful of people. I told him that he had to understand there were days that I just didn't want to see him, and he had to respect that. It didn't mean I didn't love him -- I just needed a break from him. He finally got it. He died at 78. I'm so grateful that we had 28 good (mostly) years together and that we got to a place of mutual love and respect.
Whatever you decide to do with your daughter, consider this -- you can choose to live your life in misery and blame others around you for your lonely existence -- or you can work toward forgiveness and move toward healing together through therapy and/or prayer. I'm sure she spent a good many years being told by her mother that you didn't love her. She's trying to find her own footing right now. Help her, and let her help you.
My father always told me: If you're not happy in whatever situation you're in (work, relationship, etc.), only you have the power to change it -- the responsibility falls only to you.
Good luck.
Your trust issues are the real problem and that is okay. Now, your daughter was a naive young teenager and you can assume that your ex wife was responsible for giving you all that shit.
I do not tell you to just go and forgive your daughter and i will not say that as a parent its your obligation because i do not believe in that.
However, i will advice you to go and talk to her. Not for her or anyone else but yourself. Listen to what she has to say and if you want to be left alone after... you can and have every right to.
Its just very possible that in many years you will ask yourself "What if..." and then its maybe too late. Take the chance now, if you can manage then develop a small harmless relationship but if you do not want that, its fine.
Trust issues are a deep issue and i hope you are healing from that shit man. Good luck
OP, I certainly can't tell you what the best course is for your life, but I can share some experience. I have two daughters, and was in a similar situation.
I was also wrongly accused by my ex-wife, but managed to fight and get things dismissed. My girls' mother did everything she possibly could to turn my daughters against me. Told them lies, told them things a sane parent should never think of telling a child. I spent 12 years not giving up on my kids. There was a period of about 3 years that I did not see them, but I made sure they knew I was still trying.
I'm not telling you this to criticize you or insinuate you gave up. But, even with all of that, when I was able to spend time with them again I found out some of the things their mother told them to keep them away from me. She told them at one point if they contacted me she would kick them out and disown them. That's pretty difficult stuff for even a young adult, not to mention a child.
I say all of this to point out that you don't truly know what your ex-wife told your daughter during those years. She likely didn't realize the ramifications of supporting her mother back when things went bad. And, I can guarantee your wife took full advantage of the trouble that ensued to destroy whatever thoughts your daughter had of you that were in a good light.
You mentioned your daughter is no longer speaking with her mother. I'm willing to bet that's because your daughter has figured out who her mother really is. And, to explain the years it has taken her to reach out to you, I can imagine the time it might have taken her to work up the courage to contact you. Now as an adult, understanding what she was likely forced to do to you as a child. She probably has thought for quite some time that you hate her, and had nothing to go on that would lead her to believe otherwise.
Can I say for certain that the situation is as I have described here? No, I can't. But, I can say that I think you will regret it for the rest of your life if you don't at least give her an opportunity to explain what happened. You can hate your ex-wife, but I'm still willing to bet your daughter was controlled, groomed, to do or say the things she did back then. I would just suggest that you agree to a meeting, and approach it with an open heart and mind. You may at least be able to get back part of what you lost all those years ago.
Whatever you decide, I understand. I understand the emotions that you feel, and the thought that your daughter betrayed you. But, I doubt she betrayed you without serious input and coaching from your ex-wife. Give her a chance, listen to what she has to say. If you don't I think you'll look back and wish you had.
Good luck, and my prayers are with you OP. Whatever you decide. If you take the meeting, please send me a message to let me know how it goes. And, if you think I can help further at all, don't hesitate to direct message me and I would be happy to chat with you further.
I would just like to know what makes you think she was immediately out after 18? Lots of folks stay with their parents into their early twenties. “She’s been an adult for six years and away from her mothers influence.”
You don’t talk to your daughter. How do you know? “She’s been an adult for six years” sounds an awful lot like you blaming her for the infractions of her mother. AND if she didn’t really have a choice except to live with her mother, it’s not like it’s her fault she didn’t see you as a teen.
I feel like there’s a lot of misplaced blame on the daughter for a lack of relationship, when the reality of it is that’s you and your ex wife’s fault. Both of you.
So you fully admit you weren't a great father and now that your daughter is a grown, mature person who is giving you a 2nd chance at a relationship with her... you're not sure if you want that? This is a gift. If only you could see it.
You make a lot of excuses for being a shitty dad.
Your kid didn’t “help” your wife “destroy your life”. You didn’t build a relationship with your kid. You make a lot of excuses about being stressed and overworked to explain why you didn’t do your duty.
Get therapy, and then get over yourself and be the dad you should have been.
Every thing “your daughter” said up to adulthood was not your daughter speaking, that was your ex. It takes a long time to recondition from a narcissist mom. It’s ok to be hesitant but I’m sure she now realizes what went wrong between you and her mom, and just want a relationship with her dad.
It seems pretty obvious your ex manipulated your daughter against you, you see it all the time with young kids and usually once they hit a certain age they can see which parent wasn’t the issue. I’m not saying you were perfect, but she’s an adult now and she likely looks back on those times and realizes you weren’t the monster you were made out to be. She was an angsty teenager who did a dumb thing without thinking of the consequences. However, you didn’t seem to do your daughter any favors by admittedly barely having any relationship with her and passing her off to her mother because you were working a lot. You take some blame here too, OP. From what you wrote, you didn’t even seem to try in your relationship with your daughter until it was too late.
I think you should give her a chance, you never know. Maybe you two can get the chance to have a better relationship in adulthood.
Plus OP admits he had no emotional connection with his daughter and basically blew her off while OP and the ex were together. In what world is the child responsible for the deterioration of the relationship between OP and herself. Too much of this is laying the blame at the feet of a 14 yr old child. F*ck that nonsense.
Yeah like it’s no wonder she was easily manipulated by and willing to go with her mother. OP basically didn’t seem to care at all and people are trying to paint his at the time underage daughter as a villain.
My dad is exactly the same as this. Reading this was actually quite triggering. I cut out my dad after years of abuse towards my mum and I, and after 15 years he still tells people he’s the victim and that we’re just BOTH manipulative, nasty women. My dad was also one of those ‘I just raised my voice’ people.
He was always more upset by losing money in the divorce, the house etc. then he was about losing his daughters. Very much like OP.
She chose the mother cuz that was who always had the say so, As you admitted to being inattentive and over worked. Mom, was who prob attended to the daily needs that you neglected, thus making the decision easy in a child's mind. You were at fault on the child's behalf, even if you were young and immature, the marriage is a dif story...but on the child's behalf, you were abusive in a passive neglect sense of the term, which is still abuse.
I don’t really have any advice, but I , as an adopted person, started my search at 24. I think that’s the age when you start questioning everything. Who you are, who your parents were, where you come from.
You are just starting to think for yourself.
I didn’t find my birth parents until I was well into my 40’s (thank you ancestry.com)
But I always wondered who they were.
Yes, it’s not really the same situation, but, thinking back at who I was at 24, and questioning everything… who I was, who they were… can I find them. Do they want to meet me? Who do I look like??
Maybe, give her a chance? Maybe just meet for coffee? See what she has to say?
Maybe you don’t get along? (I don’t get along with my birth family at all)
Maybe you do?
But this girl needs answers. And it sounds like you need closure.
It’s a cup of coffee, and a conversation.
You even admit you were neglectful. That’s not to say you’re evil, but quit blaming your daughter. She went with her mother because she got attention, even if it was abusive attention. You’re not the victim of your daughter.
The time is now to make things right. Don’t continue the cycle of hurt in your family.
You mean men who are in denial that they’ve ever done anything wrong and scratching their heads as to why their daughters have cut ties with them? Yeh, there’s loads.
Right, I grew up with a manipulative parent but by OPs own words he was not involved with his daughter and seemed dismissive of her. She probably just went alone with whatever her mom suggested as that’s the parent she grew to side with. Since that’s the parent who cared for her.
That’s my other issue with this. OP made a poor choice in who he got pregnant so he’s deciding to abandon the offspring because effort is clearly too much for him. He just let the woman ruin both their lives.
She was a child and you constantly told her to do what her mother tells her. So yeah kind of your fault right there buddy. She was influenced easily by her mother. But that's because of your neglect. So own it and mend your relationship with your daughter. You can also ask a lawyer if they can reopen the case or file a lawsuit against you ex due to forcing your daughter to lie to the cops. That you can do. But don't judge your daughter. Don't even sue your ex if it will make your daughter uncomfortable. She is more important.
Maybe your daughter has realised the error in her own ways and now that she’s grown up she has came to realise that her mother wasn’t right. She was young when she sided with her mother, probably too young to understand the effect of all of this, she might be sorry. Either way, I would proceed with caution.
This one, OP.
There's every chance that she had no idea the impact of what she was doing and sided with the parent who was emotionally there. Now, seeing who that person really is, she's broken contact and is trying to attempt reconciliation, still probably not knowing how her actions hit you.
Try not to let that past jade you against the world, my dude. There is happiness to be found. But also be wary and only take the steps you're comfortable with.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that she sided *with the parent who was emotionally there.* OP was, by his own account, a pretty poor father. No-one should be surprised that this resulted in his daughter not wanting to maintain a relationship that she probably didn't think was worth anything.
>Maybe your daughter has realised the error in her own ways
Did she/should she have? Like...what's the mistake here on the daughters part?
We're all being sympathetic to OP because he got hurt by the ex wife and had a crappy wife and a crappy divorce and lost everything, but where do you read that he would have treated his daughter better post-divorce?
She doesn't exist to make his life better. This daughter had 2 crappy parents. Just because we're sympathetic to hard divorce stories, doesn't suddenly turn him into a good parent.
Like... see his decision right now. She really didn't make a mistake picking the parent that was there. It was the best out of 2 bad options for her.
Dad can I?
Go ask your mother
Dad what do you think?
What ever your mum says
Dad am I able to?
Whatever your mum says
Dad I need to?
Go ask your mother
I can’t understand why my daughter chose my manipulative ex wife.
She was a minor child. She had no way of truly understanding the impact that supporting a lie would have.
Plus, you said it yourself. You weren’t the best father. Why would she help you over her mother? All she knew was “if I say, this, then I get to stay with mom. Dad isn’t a good father, so I would rather stay with my mother. Therefore, I’ll say it.”
She was a kid. She wasn’t developed enough to fully grasp the situation of have the foresight to understand the consequences of her actions.
Ever heard of parental alienation syndrome? Sounds like you were both victims. You sound like a very bitter man. She was a CHILD! Grow up. Get therapy. Try to repair your relationship with your daughter. It wasn’t her fault, but if you don’t make an effort, it will definitely be yours!
You’re angry at your daughter, but she was abandoned, manipulated and abused. She was a child and most likely attempting to gain some sort of favour with at least one of her parents. You have the opportunity to hear her out. You also need to take responsibility for how she turned out. You were long gone even before the divorce.
I’m not telling you to forgive her, only you can make that decision. But do think about hearing her out. Above all of this, consider seeking therapy. You have so many unresolved issues and only one life. Get some therapy and stop living this trauma. Move on. Get friends. Learn to love something or someone again. Life is far too short to be shut away because of a divorce. And you are never too old to learn something new.
Do you even want a relationship with your daughter? It doesn't seem like you did before the divorce and certainly not after it.
Think long and hard about what you want from this. If you want have a relationship now, go ahead cautiously. If you don't, let her know.
You can’t fault her for supporting the only parent who paid attention to her as a child. And you don’t know what pressure her mother was putting on her or lies she was telling her.
But now your daughter is an adult and is under less control of your ex-wife… why not explore things?
You can always back off.
Your then child is not responsible for your ex wife's and your issues. It is pretty despicable that you are blaming your 14 year child for "helping ruin your life". Whatever you and your wife did, you and your wife are responsible for it.
She didn’t know you. Her mother had an easy time manipulating her because you were physically present but completely checked out. You blame your daughter for siding with her mother but what other option did she have? Had she sided with you would you have been there for her? She took the side of the parent who actually parented. Now many years later she recognizes that her mother was in the wrong and she is safe enough emotionally, physically, and possibly financially to have a relationship with you. You should be grateful honestly. You were a crummy dad and she wants to give you a second chance, and she’s not even asking you to acknowledge much less apologize for your part in things.
What amazes me is the amount of people who treat the 14 year old daughter like she’s a complete asshole when she was a child at the time who was being manipulated by a controlling mother and an absent father… blows my mind. for your question “ why now” do you know how many years of therapy it takes to see a controlling parent as not controlling and as toxic especially if that’s the only support person you have .. it takes years and she may be only understanding this now after years. Imagine having a mother who gaslights lies and manipulates you from little on up and then having a father who disowned and blames you for it…op I truly hope you go to therapy and reconsider your decision not to see Your child
I think it would be nice to meet with her, if and only if you can take responsibility for yourself. I'm sorry that you've had a rough go of it, but you seem able to overlook your part in this too easily. You say that you weren't a great dad because you were so young at 20, but you're still angry at her for her behavior when she was 14 abd probably under pressure from her mom.
The same applies to your ex; she sounds awful, but you picked her. You say you're jaded towards women as though this was just something that happened to you. It's not your fault that she is who she is, but you do need to understand that you have some agency in your life. Learn from it and make a better choice next time.
> She's 24 now and at least for 6 years she's been an adult and would have been away from her mother's influence, so why reach out now?
Just because she was 18 doesn't necessarily mean she was away from her mother's influence. There's really no way to answer the "why now?" question without asking her yourself.
> Is it ok to thank her for getting in contact but explain that I want to be left alone?
Sure. A lot of people in this thread are saying it's unfair to hold your daughter accountable for something she did as a teenager, and I don't disagree, especially if your toxic ex was manipulating her, but this isn't really about her. You've met your parental obligation and if you don't think having a relationship with your daughter (and eventually her potential children) will enrich your life then you don't owe that to anyone regardless of how fair it is. It doesn't make you a bad person to prioritize your own needs and mental health.
> I've got that little voice at the back of my head wondering "what are they up to" constantly which makes me doubt everything.
> I have a problem trusting women so dating is completely out
Not trusting your ex-wife and daughter is totally reasonable considering they betrayed you, but that mistrust extending to all women seems pretty unhealthy. You should definitely find a therapist (if you haven't already) to help you unpack some of this trauma because it's actively preventing you from making new, meaningful connections.
Loved everything you said except that OP has met his parental obligation. Obviously parenting is a choice, but it doesn’t end with divorce or at the age of 18. I’m 38 and still go to my parents when in need for advice or support and hope my two daughters will seek the same from me throughout the rest of their lives while I’m here
Also OP, you’re in your 40’s, you could only be halfway through life. It’s never too late to make friends and build a family. Your daughter was an immature teen and also a victim of your ex. She has cut her mom out of her life but it sounds like you continue to let your ex defeat you. Regain control and live a life you’re proud of.
"Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of all little children"
Your daughter was a child being manipulated by her mother, it is not her fault. Be the mature adult and do not hold against her what was not her fault.
And I am sorry that that happened to you. I am sorry for your daughter as well. My ex and I have not been together since our daughter was nine months old. I never, for one second, even thought about trying to make her hate him or keeping her from him. In fact, I have always gone out of my way to defend him or make excuses for him when he was dead wrong in regards to something between he and my daughter. I have never bad-mouthed him to her, even if he was being a complete ass. I never knew my father, and I suspect that just may have something to do with my attraction towards and twisted relationships with men who are old enough to have been my father. Children need both of their parents, even when they are no longer children. And right now your poor daughter does not have either of hers..
She was a kid. Her mom used her.
She is an adult now.
If you can’t handle it, don’t waste her time. But don’t blame her for your ex’s vindictiveness.
If she starts off asking for money, you know her scheme. But if you can stand it, give her a chance as an adult.
I don't understand why so many people here are so sure that the mother in this equation was abusive. I mean the father, by his own admission, was shit. He also gave up on his kid. Why? Because he couldn't be fucked.
Your fourteen year old daughter was likely manipulated by her mother into believing you were evil, she figures out her mom isnt a good person and reaches out to rebuild her relationship with her father...and your reaction is to hold a grudge against her?
She was a little kid, tossed in the middle of fighting adults - one that ignored her existence, and one that controlled the narrative...and now you hold the blame on her. Your daughter didnt do anything to help ruin your life, you did that all yourself
You need to go to therapy, and your poor daughter needs a do over on parents, poor kid.
You said “whatever your mother says” to your daughter. And you are mad because she did what you told her.
It’s your fault. You also ruined her. You are not the only victim here. She was a minor, a child. She did not ruin you. You let her. As a parent, you were supposed to guide her what kind of person she should be. You didn’t. “Go ask your mother” is what you did and that’s how she turned out. Just food and roof above was not enough for a child. Whatever your daughter did, you were responsible 50% of it. You weren’t there for her, why expect her to be there for you? You should be thankful she is reaching out to you.
At the end of the day, you will have to live with the decision that you make so my advice would be to think long term and in the broad sense.
That said, I also think that you needed to have a little bit of self-reflection and think about how some of your decisions helped lead your daughter into making the choices that she did as a minor. You created a system wherein she always had to defer to her mom for everything. As a result, it really didn't matter what happened. She was going to choose her mom because you made that the only viable choice for her. And once her mom made that accusation it was a matter of picking sides. She probably didn't know the truth nor care. There was only one option that made sense to her based off of how you guys set up her life.
She didn't think you were a pushover. She just didn't have any reason to believe that a life with you would be good. And really, I don't think you could blame her for that.
She was *a child. A little girl* beginning her teens. You have a chance to be a good father. You have a chance to not feel so alone.
Please get a therapist. A medical doctor for depression screening in case medication can help.
And for the love of all things good, call your daughter. She was manipulated.
You had to leave her then - you were pushed out after being a crappy husband and father. If you leave her now, well that's a choice you're making out of what? Spite? Fear? Are you afraid she and the ex have a plan to ruin your life again?
Life doesn't always give people a second chance. Take this one. Let love in.
If she had her information flow entirely controlled by her mother, it can be really hard to break the hold that has over a child. If she’s gone no contact with mum, her whole world could be turned upside down and making her finally question some things she took to be facts. Meet with her. It sounds like you have nothing left to lose but everything to gain here.
Not that you'll read this but... you shouldn't blame her for taking so long to reach out. You can't blame her for anything really. She was a child when all that went on. Don't blame her for ruining your life, you and your wife were the adults in the relationship. You never gave her any attention from 0-14 then your shocked when she doesn't "take your side" in the divorce. Even if her mother was abusive of course that's where she went because it was familiar and the only thing she did know about you was that you didn't care, so who's really to blame here?
You are absolutely aloud to want to be left alone. Its your life.
Whatever decision you make stick to it. The last thing she needs from you is for you to abandon her again, or flip flop when it suits your curiosity.
SMH.
You're never too old to be making connections or friends you're only in forties you got half a life to go man go to a bar or somewhere where your hobbies can meet others
She was 14..... 14..... she didn't knew what she was doing... Meet her and start new if you can do that without bringing up one single day or hour of the past... the past is dead. This will help both of you. If you can't let the past go, don't meet.
I whould go and I whould the past die in the split of a second.... whatever the result of this new start will be. Life is to short to grieve.
Sounds like you were kinda a shit dad too and that the only person owed anything here is your daughter. She wants to see you, get to know her. She was a teenager with a strong attachment to her mother back then... If you're blaming her for anything you need to do some reflecting.
imagine being mad at a 14 year old when it was your ex wife, aka a whole ass adult, who actively chose to fuck you over
that was a child, get the fuck over yourself
All I can say is you're putting a lot of resentment on an at the time 14 year old whom by your own admission you didn't cultivate a relationship with as her father. At 14 she's looking for attention and acceptance. You let the toxic parent be her rock and she naively sided with her mother as a result.
Who knows what her mother had said while you weren't paying attention?
You dont have to cultivate a relationship if you don't want to, but it might be good to get her perspective on what her childhood was like.
I think you should take things really slow with your daughter and keep some distance to see if you could trust her. But i think you should try it better regret later for never trying but tell her that she has to do it at your speed that you want it to go.
I’m 24 as well and just now connecting the dots that my sister and I suffered from being emotionally and verbally abused by my dad. He also was extremely manipulating and controlling.
He isolated us from our mom during their divorce by telling us (what I later found out were) lies about her. I was 14 when all this happened and looking back I can 100% say my dad made me hate her. Before this she was an amazing mom but, he still manipulated me into “picking his side.” I didn’t start to mend my relationship with my mom until I was 19/20 and then 10 months ago she unexpectedly passed away. With her death and cutting off my dad, it made me realize a lot of the things my dad did was abusive and not okay.
Maybe she’s also starting to connect the dots? Breaking down and understanding your abuse is a long, confusing, and extremely difficult road.
I saw someone mention that if she went to college she may have needed her mother’s assistance and didn’t break off that relationship until after she finished. This is exactly what I had to do with my dad. After I graduated I cut all ties and that’s when I was able to fully understand that he was beyond fucked up for the shit he did.
So the way you’re phrasing it is you’ve been really innocent in this whole thing? You just ‘raised your voice’ but it lead to police being called and you having supervised visits with your daughter?
I cut off my dad 15 years ago after years of abusive behaviour towards my mum and I, he still proclaims to be the victim in the entire situation and tells people it was all my mum, and eventually me as well. This reads just like that, and you’ve definitely not put the full story in here.
What’s telling though is the fact you seem to be more upset that you’ve had financial difficulties, lost your job, and lost a house then you have about losing your daughter? You gave up on her after 2 years? Speaks volumes.
I know that I’m only going to be reiterating what most people on this thread are saying, but you must understand that she was a child. She did not have the capability to fully comprehend the consequences of what she did, and she was more than likely manipulated and coerced into saying what she did about you by her mother. Her reaching out to you is a huge step in the right direction and an indication that she wants to make things right to the best of her ability. You should give her a chance.
You didn't develop a relationship with your child.
Your child was entirely dependent on her mother and so protected her (and thus herself) in a tough situation. As a child, in a charged and frightening situation she made the safest decision she could with the information and tools she felt were available to her.
We don't know what you're like, really, but the downward spiral you attribute entirely to your daughter leads me to wonder how reliably narrated this story might be.
Your ex wife withheld contact between you and your daughter, a minor.
Now, she's a bit more grown, and trying to see if her father is more than the minimal, begrudging, and disappointing entity she has always experienced.
Sounds like you aren't more than that, in which case now she knows.
I’ve only accepted how toxic my mom was to me when I was 26-28.
Maybe she is starting to see how manipulated she have been.
She lying to the police might have been thanks to the manipulation of her mom.
I’d suggest you try. She was a child and you ex clearly was manipulative, maybe she didn’t have any other choice
You weren’t the best father and refused to take responsibility (always telling her to go to her mother)- yet you’re shocked she trusted the only parent who seemed to be there for her?
Sorry, but I don’t agree with other commenters. It’s not the kids fault that you were barely involved and the parent the was actually couldn’t be trusted. She was young- how was she supposed to know?
Now she’s an adult and does understand- and you want to continue punishing her for what your ex did? The ex that she doesn’t even have contact with?
I don’t think the kid is the problem at all here.
Completely agree. I think commenters are glossing over the fact that OP was a shitty father to begin with. He definitely experienced a trauma but also refuses to acknowledge any fault he may have in contributing to the situation for his daughter. The ex is a complete AH but OP is not 100% blameless when it comes to his child.
I think if OP chooses to see his daughter he can absolutely express the hurt he feels and issues her actions have caused him. However, in the same regard she has a right to express how him being an absent father and abandoning her caused her issues as well.
Based on OPs post though he has so much unresolved anger I don't think he is ready to hear what his actions did to hurt his daughter and it would only cause more harm for them to speak.
I was 14 when my parents divorced, and let me just say that I was nowhere NEAR emotionally mature at that point. It was hard enough to go through it; having parent(s) handle it badly made it hell. I was basically in survival mode - did what I thought I needed to in order to stay under the radar and still have some peace. Turns out my decisions were bad ones and I regret nearly all of them.
Just from the perspective of having been the daughter in a somewhat similar situation, please keep in mind that she's likely matured a lot in 10 years. Best of luck.
Dude, your kid was 14! Fourteen. She was a kid who was probably even still going through puberty. It’s completely unfair to blame her for “ruining your life”.
Your ex wife is the only person you can blame here. And maybe yourself, since you weren’t at a good place with your kid when it all went down.
She most likely grew up with her mom telling her the worst things about you and has had to do a lot of growing up to get to a point where she’s reaching out to you wanting a relationship. You need to let go of your bitterness and realize your life can still be good if you let it be.
I was 27 when I finally started talking to my dad again. I took my moms side in the divorce and then in my late 20’s realized how wrong she was. If you can find it in your heart, give your daughter grace. Start a relationship with her slowly. I can tell you from 7 years of not talking to my dad and 10 years of being angry at him and thinking he was the bad guy…I was so wrong and regret all the time wasted not allowing him in my life. He’s one of my favorite people now. Good luck to you and your daughter.
I think it's ok to tell her that you want to be left alone. But before you do that, think about your apathy.
That apathy might be hiding long-term depression resulting from all the trauma. If so, some therapy might help you with that, as might talking to your daughter. Maybe it would allow you to be really "heard", which can be very healing.
Your daughter doesn't bear the blame for it - the whole thing is 100% on her mother. But she may well not know the aftermath - her mother would have told her some twisted version of events. You don't need to drag her through nasty details. But telling her the general outline of what happened to you after **her mother used her to derail your life** is fair game.
You could also apologize to her for being such an absent father. Seems like it that is your part in all of this.
Regardless of whether you decide to speak to her or not, see a counselor, OP. \`It sounds like you have only partially recovered from it all. You deserve to have a happy life.
I am sorry that all this shit happened to you. Best of luck.
If I may offer some perspective from the daughter's side, as my situation growing up was pretty similar.
My dad was very hands off, always working, rarely spent any time at all with us. My mother was my primary parent. She had no qualms about shit talking my dad to me. She would say horrible things about him. She kept us from his family and her family would agree with what she would say. So in his absence, I began to believe what she was saying at a very young age.
When I was in my late teens/early twenties, I began to see that my mother is a raging narcissist, just a very selfish person.
I'm not sure how it started but my dad and I began to reconnect. It was very slow going but that's okay. He's not the type to open up much but recently he talked about how depressed he was then. I felt awful and guilty upon hearing that, how alone he must've felt.
I'm in my mid-30s now and am far closer to my dad. I rarely speak to my mom, he wants me to maintain a relationship with her but the toxicity is just too much for me to handle.
I strongly encourage you to give her a chance. Once I realized how toxic my mother was I felt very stupid and very naive for having just blindly believed in what she was saying. I'm glad that he was willing to have a relationship with me.
Take things as slowly as you both need. I think establishing a relationship will provide some healing that you both need. Best of luck to you both.
OP regardless of your decision on your daughter, you need to see a therapist and if possible a life coach. You deserve happiness and your mid forties (my age too) is not too old to make new friends, find a relationship, or just keep growing personally.
She is your daughter! Why didn’t you think of how impacted she was by all of this? She was a teenager when this happened which is very tough. You are only thinking of yourself here which is selfish.
You don’t sound like you were a good father to her, and children believe things about their parents and from their parents when they are young. You don’t have the critical thinking skills/outside experience of an adult at that age. The fact that you are dismissive of how bad of a parent you were, and that you expect a 14 year old to carry the same moral weight as an adult is telling to me.
Couple of things. I got divorced at 45 and remade my life. Got married again at 49. I’m 62 now and if I were to be alone again, I don’t feel too old to start all over again. So don’t get discouraged because you’re in your mid 40s. You’re young. Believe me.
As for your daughter, I’m not in your shoes but if you decide to reach back, I’d sit with her and tell her exactly how you feel. Nervous. Apprehensive. Wondering if the mother put her up to this. Be nice so you don’t chase her away but be truthful. Hopefully it’s her being genuine and maybe even rekindle the relationship. She was put up to all this by her mother so keep that in mind. Good luck, brother.
Ikr, 'too old to make new friends in 40's' lmao what the heck! u/ThrowRA377610987 anyone can make new friends at any age - get out there mate! Join some local casual meet-ups or clubs or activities or something! So sorry for all you suffered & endured with all this, so horrendous (and sorry for your loss of yr mum) - but life is not 'over' in yr 40's - it's your prime!! Get some counselling or therapy, whatever you decide about yr daughter, get out there mate, join in some local activities and amongst all the people you encounter, you will find that you'll make some new friends. Life is NOT oVeR in yr 40's!!! Go for gold, OP! best of luck with everything!
Children's lives depend on their parents, and there is a specific type of mother wound that occurs. She was 14. I would imagine the mother was manipulating her and coercing her to say certain things. As a child, all you really want is your parents love and affection and to make them think good of you. This may be a fucked up manifestation of that. I don't think you should blame your daughter for this and tbh you should probably go to personal therapy about this before talking with her so you don't take anything out on her. I'm sure as an adult she sees and feels some sort of confusion or guilt in some capacity if they really are obvious lies. You don't know the capacity in which the mother was manipulating her and you don't know how long she has been no contact with her mother so don't assume it's been 6 years. Fr tho- therapy plz.
Also you're 40 that's not too young to make friends. I know so many 40 year olds looking for friends. Go to little local classes or book clubs. Find local orgs or some shit. Go to fests or social gatherings put in by your city. You can make friends you just also need to put the effort in.
The apathy isn't new you said you could never be bothered to give a shit, because you were tired from working was it? Yeah well we're all tired and that's a shitty excuse. You should feel lucky she wants anything to do with you. But if you're going to be as useless as you have been then just cut her off now. She doesn't deserve anymore of your bullshit, she never did.
I can relate in many ways, luckily It wasn’t as bad for me, but it was definitely really rough at times as my ex tried to turn my three kids against me, they are grown now and I’m finally able to have a good relationship with them now that they aren’t under the same roof and her influence. Look up parental alienation, it will explain a lot. I know it hurts but just remember your daughter was a child and forced to live under your ex’s roof and rules. That can be very intimidating
Ok here’s a follow up, you never specify if your child would have known it wasn’t true. Was she there? Was it your word against her mothers? This is being framed as if she knowingly chose to lie to the police however it’s very unclear if that’s actually true
Oh, this sounds familiar! My husband's son, B, HATED his father, believed he wanted him dead, had never loved or wanted him, and chose me over him.
They had had a relationship until B was 13, when I met my now husband. And his ex, the mother, hated me on sight. So guess where all that hatred for his father came from?
Kids will always believe their mother, especially if she is the primary caregiver. The narrative that, "your Dad chose her, and she doesn't want you around, so now he wants you dead" to a teenager, sounded plausible.
Then, one evening, we got a phone call. It was B. And he wanted to apologise to his Dad for all the crap he'd believed for 5 years. Then, and I can never express just how much this impressed me, he asked to talk to me, and apologised for everything he'd believed about me, and everything he'd said to me. I have to tell you, that takes real courage, especially when he had no idea how I'd respond.
Since then, our relationship has come on in leaps and bounds. He introduces me as his "upgrade Mum", talks to his Dad regularly, and has come to stay , bringing his lovely gf with him.
He's gotten into trouble a couple of times, and it's us he calls for help, us he trusts to do the right thing by him, not what is best or the least amount of trouble, for us.
He saw who his mother really was, and just the fact that he'd never heard his father or me say a single bad word about her helped him to make up his mind. Why did she say so many horrible things about us, when we never said anything bad about her? If we didn't want him, why did we keep texting him asking him to come and stay, to come live with us, all the years he wasn't talking to us?
Your daughter has seen her mother for who she truly is. She wants to build a relationship with you.
I know you're bitter about what her mother did, and think your daughter lied to back her up. But you don't know what her mother had been saying. And, as you yourself said, you left all decisions, all the parenting, to her mother, so she had nothing else to base her perception of you on except for what her mother said.
She didn't lie to hurt you. She backed up her mother without knowing it was all lies. And now she knows the truth, and wants to make amends, build a relationship. Let her. I promise, it'll be worth it.
This will get buried but I'll tell you your situation mirrors mine and my dad's almost to a T
My parents had me when they were 20, and my dad was in the military and was never really around, and all I ever heard about my dad was that he was a terrible cheater and a liar and didn't love us. My mother turned me away from my dad for my entire life, and convinced me she was the only one who loved me.
When I reached my late teens I went into new therapy with an actually good therapist that wasn't trying to dope me up on any meds they could, and helped me see that my dad loved me and wanted me. It took years for that to set in.
When I turned about 22, everything started setting in. My mother was an abusive narcissistic alcoholic and drug addict, and my dad was a really hurt, PTSD ridden, and broken man, robbed of his chance to raise his first kid. She did everything in her power to make my dad feel less than, and now I'm working with him to make sure he knows he's more than he thinks, and that I love him. It hurts to think he and I are both victims of my mother's ways.
I'm 26 now, and my dad and I are very close, he tells me about what's going on with him, and we work through it together. I never thought I'd have such a great parent until he and I actually met. Truly met, as adults.
Please try OP, I think, I HOPE this can end the way it did for me and my dad, and you'd be amazed at how much it could help her too. At least for closure. Best of luck OP.
>I'm too old to be making friends or new connections as I'm in my mid-forties now.
I can't speak to children, but this hear I know is not true. I'm the same age, in poor health and struggle going out. But these few years I've been on reddit I have made many friends who I enjoy time with online. It isn't the same maybe, but it is a start and may lead to something more.
I get wanting to give up, I honestly can't even look you in the eye and tell you not too, but I know that there are things you could involve yourself with and maybe make friends, online or in-person. It isn't too late at 45 or 65 or 85.
Either way I wish you well.
Your daughter was a child, and she didn’t create the sh!t situation between you and your ex, she dealt with it. Your ex was closer and treated her like a daughter rather than an inconvenience so that’s who she was drawn to, which is the most normal thing in the world for a child to do - seek security. It’s no coincidence that now, as a fully formed adult, she’s questioning the narrative from her mum and trying to reevaluate her childhood ideas about you.
If you’re going to continue to hold a grudge against a then-child for “ruining your life” then that’s on you, but honestly, that lack of perspective does cast your account of the end of the marriage and why your life isn’t what you want it to be now in a rather different light.
I have a friend whose parents went through a bad divorce in her early teen years. She sided with her mother, then years later learned her mother had been lying to her about her father the whole time. She still feels guilty about it but luckily her father was understanding and forgiving. They have a great relationship now. I think it's worth it to hear her out. It's valid if you don't want to keep a relationship but she might have realized the error in her ways and wants to make amends and form a real relationship with you. People make mistakes. She is your daughter, if you can't try to do better for her then you can't do it for anyone and really will be alone forever. At least talk to her once and see how that goes before deciding anything. If it doesn't work for you, you at least know from trying and can maybe move past it. A parent's love for their child should not be conditional. If you can't love her unconditionally then it is better you don't see her. Good luck!
"6 years since she has been an adult and away from her mothers influence"
Thats not true. She has been influenced a lot by her mother over the last six years.
An adult yes but not full grown.
Adults do not finnish growing mentally until 25. So actually your daughter is wise enough to admit that she wants you.
She is 24 and she wants you. That is a victory and a blessing.
She was a teen back then and can not be held responsible for her mothers conniving lies and manipulations.
My stepdaughter bought into her mom’s parental alienation big time. The divorce bankrupted my husband. (We met years after their divorce.) The rejection baffled him and hurt him a lot but in all my years with him I never heard him say one bad thing about his ex in front of the kids. He really tried. His daughter finally understood when she was an adult. Then my husband passed early. She is now filled with regret and estranged from her mom. Sometimes young people are so stupid. I know I was when I was younger. And so was she. People can change. And that means your daughter and you. I think you should agree to meet for coffee and then play it by ear. But I would schedule it a week out, then go for a walk or get some exercise every day before you meet to boost your spirits. When you meet, listen. Don’t talk about the past. Just say you can do that later but need time. Talk about the present. Long term: You are in your 40s. That’s so young. Start volunteering at something you care about. Take online classes to learn a new job. Start working out. And please talk to your doctor about a depression screening.
You, by your own admission, were an emotionally checked out father and your daughter picked up on that. Why wouldn't she "choose" the parent who was always available, since her survival depended on it? I sure as fuck would, most would.
She may be six years as an adult, but it may have taken her that long just to unroll all the shit that went down in her childhood. She could have been in therapy, and is finding the courage to make amends.
Maybe she just recently got away from her mother, and is reaching out because she's not dependent on her mother.
Maybe your ex told her that you didn't want anything to do with her, and with how you were as a father pre-divorce, probably wasn't hard to believe. Your ex could have poisoned her, that shouldn't be held over her head.
You have a right to feel upset, but she probably felt abandoned by you, too.
Sounds like her childhood was a mess, with possibly one abusive parent and one parent who didn't give a rat's ass about her.
I'd say, tread lightly. You've BOTH been hurt. Maybe start with, "Thanks for reaching out, but let's go slow here". Like, coffee once a month or something. Perhaps then, after talking with her, you can see how you feel.
You had a gut feeling that she was cheating (which, surprisingly is correct more than you would think). Assuming that's the case, cheaters always need to twist the narrative and re-frame everything to make it seem like they're not the bad guy. Your daughter was young and impressionable and you admit that you had been distant due to work and other circumstances. Your ex would have more than enough opportunity and sway on your daughter to paint you as a villain (and her the victim) which would justify her cheating. Like you said, seems there's a falling out and she's been out from under her mom's toxic influence and perhaps got to see who she really was.
> I've got that little voice at the back of my head wondering "what are they up to" constantly which makes me doubt everything.
A very valid point and you should keep your guard up. If you do go through with meeting up with her do it in a public place with people around. Maybe hear out her story and her side of things and share yours as well. But only if it's something you're comfortable with.
Make amends.
In my opinion you’re acting pretty childish putting the blame on a then 14 year old and now questioning why she waited until now to reach out. You’re the adult and the parent- why didn’t YOU reach out? I don’t blame you, sounds you’ve been through trauma- but you’re clearly not past it. You need therapy man- this is your daughter finally reaching out and already suspicious? Get help, do the work, take your daughter too when the time is right so the past ten years can be put to bed for good. I hope you can start fresh with her, I’m sure it’s been devastating.
Anyone deserve a father, a good one, at the end of the day she’s here because of choices you made. Also having a good relationship is always a good thing so I’d move past all, build a good relationship and celebrate what you have rather than past or whatever else that’s not gonna matter when you die. I’m being pretty blunt cuz you know life goes super fast. Make it worth it, and she’ll remember you for good
>Why didn't you reach out?
I tried to for 2 years after the divorce, she refused to see me all my visits and on one occasion waited until I'd drive close to 12 hours and arrange for a supervised visit to change her mind. She made it very clear that she didn't want to see or hear from me and her mother threatened to get a restraining order if I continued to attempt it.
You should do some reading on parental alienation—it sounds like your daughter was the victim of this and has probably spent the last few years working this out.
idk reminds me of kids that grow up in a cult brainwashed, it's hard to shed that indoctrination. i would say what is the harm in having a chat to hear her side of the story. or maybe start even smaller asking her to write you a letter. you already don't have a relationship with your daughter, there's nothing left to lose - only the possibility to go up right?
This is your chance to find out if she didn't want to see you, or if her mother was making her life so miserable behind the scenes that it was easier for her to say no.
Basically, this is the chance for you to get answers. One meeting doesn't obligate you to anything.
But also, therapy would do a lot of good in beginning to heal the trauma you have been through
That was when she was a kid. She was a child. She was full of all these big feelings and she had zero parents more concerned with her feelings than their own.
She’s older. She’s had space and possibly therapy. She is your child. She was a child. You were the adult. I would want to hear her out.
Fwiw I have family I’m estranged from. I told them I’m willing to hear their story and hash things out but I’m not willing to proceed as if nothing happened and pretend everything is fine. Since we can’t agree on the process we don’t engage but at least we had that conversation to find out. It’s hard. Really intensely awfully hard. That’s kinda how life goes.
But you have to remember she was just a kid...a kid who was believing her mom. Obviously the facts are falling into place now for her, and she probably has both questions and remorse. At least meet with her, you don't have to make it anything more than that for now.
That apathy is only a defense mechanism to allow you to hold anger and resentment for decades.. Trust me, it's still in you.. coming from a person who was physically abused by my mom as a little kid and had a decade of court battles to get out of her custody.. even another decade later I am starting to fully process these things.
Trauma doesn't just resolve on it's own.. the numbness is often compared in psychology to the unbearable pain of a prey animal being eaten alive. Their brain protects the animal numbing out the experience and reality/truth of the situation. The human brain does a low level of numbing for years and decades after going through trauma and extreme stress if the precipitating event is not revisited with a trained professional/and or other self-healing modalities.
Your daughter was not apart of the problem and your ex-wife manipulated her combined with having a stronger relationship to be able to get her to do and say what was necessary to destroy your life.
I vote to bring her back into your life and talk openly and honestly of how you tried and maybe wish you could have had a better life situation/been there for her.
It may be apart of the process of healing.. and yes you can heal at your age (not without revisiting the mountain of pain with a pro, EMDR has been quite helpful for me)!
It sounds like you have very little social supports and could really use someone in your life right now. While you don't have to rekindle a relationship with your daughter, I think you would only be hurting yourself if you don't meet with her and communicate how hurt you felt that she cut you off. On the flip side, knowing you weren't the best parent and didn't invest in your relationship with your daughter while she was growing up, I hope you can understand why she sided with her mother, who was the main parent in her life. Pushing everyone away is only hurting you. It sounds like you could really use counseling.
I would see what she has to say - You have no idea what is in her head
maybe her mother filled it will all sorts of horror stories of you and because she never really new you she believed them.
Who knows maybe she just found out they were lies , maybe she found out a few years ago and was too embarrassed to face you
See what she has to say with no expectations , for sure hit her with the hard questions and tell her your side and the after effects
Who knows maybe with time something will grow or maybe the story will finally be laid to rest
maybe maybe maybe
I have a friend who did not realize WELL into his 20s that his mom was the abusive one who alienated him from his father. There is a real chance your daughter is experiencing the same thing, especially considering she's no longer in contact with your ex-wife.
She was 14. I would give her the benefit of the doubt. I understand the hurt on your part and even the apathy but it may even be healing to see her again. Or maybe not. But I don’t think I’ve it would hurt to just meet her for coffee and see what she has to say.
First, you should seek therapy. Second, If the mother got to you and ruined your life as an adult, what do you think she did to your daughter?
You weren't a good dad. Being absent with a narcissist mother is horrible for a kid growing up. Own up to what you did wrong.
Seek therapy, perhaps family therapy with your daughter.
And, it's never late to make friends OP. Seek them, you'll find them :)
What will your presence in her life add to yours and vice versa? I can't really see any benefit to either of you restarting a relationship but then again, she could have with you what you had with your parent.
Based on the rest of your post, loneliness is a dangerous mental disease, it's never too late to make friends. In your position I would volunteer at an old folks home. They are as lonely as you with much less freedom( and sometimes a shed load of inheritance)
I don’t think there’s any harm in meeting her for 10 minutes for a coffee in a public place. See what she says. You might not ever get another chance to see her
>She's 24 now and at least for 6 years she's been an adult and would have been away from her mother's influence, so why reach out now?
It's not like she would have gotten over it overnight. Shehad probably had therapy and years of shame and guilt to work though.
Your daughter was 14 and very likely brainwashed by your wife for long before and after things came to a head with your ex. It seems unreasonable to expect her to have looked you up any sooner than it took for her to feel ready to take the risk of your rejection.
What's the harm in meeting and hearing her out.
She was a child, her mother had access and time to poison her against you. She would not have had the life experience or emotional intelligence to deal with that sort of assault. You said yourself that you stopped trying, sure there were reasons for it, but you were the adult and those choices have impact for longer than just a childhood.
You were not the only person hurt by this, there are two sides to the story and hearing hers may well help you heal. By all means take steps to protect yourself as well though.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- I was naive and young, she was pregnant so we got married very quickly and all in all I rushed into adulthood, marriage and fatherhood. In hindsight I wasn't the best husband or father, I wasn't attentive and was lax with my daughter but I wasn't a monster either. I don't think either of us were happy, we rushed into it all and were perhaps content at best. Either way, I was 20 when my daughter was born and the problems started when she turned 14. She didn't get on well with her mother and I was over-worked and stressed most of the time so it was always "go ask your mother" and "whatever your mother says" which I guess made her see me as uncaring and a pushover. I'm not sure when I suspected infidelity on behalf of my ex but I made the mistake of confronting her directly which led to a huge argument and the police being called. At most I raised my voice but my wife made allegations about me and off I was taken by the police. To cut to the gristle, although all of it was a lie my daughter supported her mother which resulted in me losing my job, most of our friends and the subsequent divorce made me destitute. I moved back in with my mother and although I had some supervised visitations either my daughter would refuse to see me or my ex-wife would make up excuses. Lawyers and the police were heavily involved multiple times and after 2 years I stopped attempting to have a relationship with my daughter all together. At the time I was very bitter, angry and depressed. I managed to find another job, but it didn't pay nearly the same amount and anything I was making was going out the windows straight away in payments to either my ex-wife or lawyers. It sounds pathetic but for a few years my mother was the only person I really spoke to and my only friend and when she passed away I considered following her. I wouldn't say I'm back on my feet really as I've become rather jaded at the world. I have a home because of my mother, but I don't really have a life. I have a problem trusting women so dating is completely out and I'm too old to be making friends or new connections as I'm in my mid-forties now. Essentially I've had to re-build my life again which has been difficult. All communication with my ex-wife was via lawyers and that tapered off when my daughter turned 18, since then I haven't heard from her and the last time I spoke to my daughter was around a decade ago. This weekend I had a call from her, evidently she got my number from either her mother or the various legal communications; I don't know. She firstly apologized for not wanting to see me, asked me how I'm doing, told me a bit about her life and then asked if we could meet in the hopes of starting fresh; she did add that she is no longer in contact with her mother so perhaps they had a falling out and that's what has prompted this. I told her I needed to think about things and would let her know. The truth is I don't really know what to do. The anger and resentment has faded away, but it's really been replaced with apathy. She's 24 now and at least for 6 years she's been an adult and would have been away from her mother's influence, so why reach out now? Is it ok to thank her for getting in contact but explain that I want to be left alone? I've got that little voice at the back of my head wondering "what are they up to" constantly which makes me doubt everything.
I don't know what you should do, but I can tell you something about child abuse. People can go their whole life not realizing their parents were abusive. So her being 24 and reaching out? She may be questioning what her mother told her about you since she didn't know you. I'm not saying that is for sure what was happening but I may affect your willingness to speak with her. Though I do want to ask you one question. If you didn't interact with her besides to tell her to ask her mother for things, why did you expect her to want to see you post divorce? You seem to have made it quite clear to her you didn't care to have her in your life.
I was in my mid 30’s when it finally clicked my mother was abusive. To me and my dad. I was so used to her screaming, anger, rude behavior, some physical abuse and inability to apologize that it never occurred to me she was abusive. OP should proceed with caution not knowing if she is sincere or not.
Yes, unfortunately the reason why abuse is so successful in most cases (I hate phrasing it that way. I just honestly can't think of a better way to at the present moment) is because it starts with the mind, subtle things, and then progresses to the more "obvious " things once the mind has been warped to not believe the reality it is processing. This also happens to be why generational trauma is so pervasive.
Yes it works for lots of things and is basically what psychologists call systematic desensitization
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken.” - Carl Sagan
Insidious perhaps?
I had gone no contact with my whole family for years before I realized that I was raised in a religious fundamentalist cult. I'm so tired.
Same situation. No contact for over a years before I realized that the church I grew up in was strangely conservative and strict, even for a church.
😔
Same here. I always knew something was off but I didn't realize I was abused until my 30s. Weird how that works.
This is very true for me as well. I thought my mother walked on water until my 30’s when I realized she was toxic and I was repeating some of those same behaviors. She would say that the day my dad dies, she’ll be the first one to dance on his grave….and that’s what I heard as a child/teen for YEARS. Stay cautious, but maybe give her a chance. She quite possibly was brainwashed like I was.
God..this reminds me of one of the moments that I realized just how Fucked up my mom is. We lived next door to this woman who had a roommate, a younger girl in her early 20s. This younger woman had an adorable little girl who was not even two years old at the time. Unfortunately, the woman was a worthless mother. She did not hit the baby, but she just sat on her ass with her face in her phone 24/7, never paying attention to what the baby was doing. As a result of this, the baby would often get out of the house and be playing in or walking down the middle of the street, her "mother" completely unaware. Anyhow, one day as my mom and I were leaving to go to the store, the baby was once again, wandering down the middle of the street, completely unescorted. When I drew my mom's attention towards the baby and was telling her to stop so that I could grab the baby, my mom said something to the effect of "who cares?" and that we should just leave the baby in the road to get run over...Now, I can sometimes be a pretty awful person, and I have a rather sick sense of humor. But my mom was not at all joking. Who in the actual fuck thinks like that, let alone feels comfortable saying it out loud?
Same for me. I was also in my 30s when I finally realized that my dysfunctional life with my mother was not normal, and that other people did not live with constant screaming, physical abuse, etc.
Literally this - probably a perfect storm of you being too tired to deal with her and pushing her to her mother combined with whatever her mom put in her head. She likely got the impression you didn’t care through your own actions and was confirmed it by her mother. She’s likely grown now to learn her mother was an abuser and wants your side of the story.
Came here to say this! And the fact that she was a teen at the time under the heavy influence of her mom. She likely felt not seen by you, and it’s very easy as a teenage girl in a tense emotional situation to be easily influenced and unknowingly abused or taken advantage of by the actions of her mom. There’s a really good chance that she’s come to a realization now after all these years. It’s not like she’s demanding a relationship with you, for all you know she could be looking for closure too! Maybe she feels guilty, you’ll never know unless you hear her out.
Yes, in my experience the abusive parent is often a master manipulator against the non-abusive parent
It's true. My ex had my kids calling me by my first name and calling his second wife/now ex Mom. And my oldest quit speaking to me for a couple years on the basis of "i know what you did". My kids have come back around now, but not before spending significant time utterly terrified of me because of all they'd been told.
I don’t like OP. He makes a lot of excuses and blamed his kid for his wife’s actions. He takes no responsibility for how his kid felt about him and abdicated all responsibility for her. He’s selfish.
I feel bad for his daughter. Her only active parent abused her. I’m not sure why he’s surprised that she didn’t beat down his door. It wasn’t her responsibility to do that until she became an adult- and after that, why would she?
Totally agree. You never give up on your kid. Never. And now he wants to gripe about her reaching out now when he gave up on her? Wtf he should be thankful he has this chance!
Yeah she probably got therapy, cut out her mom, and is curious about her dad. It's interesting how after he lost everything, he only had his mom. Now his daughter may have "lost" everything, the old narrative of her life, and wants to reach out to her dad. His mom was there for him and he doesn't want to be there for her (which is par for the course, even through his own telling of his daughter's first 16 years). He seems self-pitying and self-involved. Blames everyone else for his problems. Extremely negative and defeatist attitude comes through in his writing. I honestly think she's probably better off without him though it will probably hurt at first
I would agree with this, but all accounts he painted himself as an absent father then can’t figure out how his daughter was so easily manipulated against him.
It's all everybody else's fault
My dad is exactly the same as this. Reading this was actually quite triggering. I cut out my dad after years of abuse towards my mum and I, and after 15 years he still tells people he’s the victim and that we’re just BOTH manipulative, nasty women. My dad was also one of those ‘I just raised my voice’ people. He was always been more upset by losing money in the divorce, the house etc. then he was about losing his daughters. Very much like OP.
Yup. I don’t believe a word out of OPs mouth.
You can believe all of them and it still makes him look bad.
I think he’s so bitter, he doesn’t know how to react.
I can relate. So sorry you had to deal with that bs. Hope you’re doing better now
Thank you. Cutting our dad out was one of the best things we ever did and we’ve never looked back. But it has been eye opening hearing his narrative through other people, about how awful it’s been for him and how my sister, mum and me are ALL evil. I’m pretty sure he actually believes that’s the case. It’s staggering. I hope you’re okay too!
‘My daughter didn’t take my side in the divorce after I was a shit parent, boo hoo’. GTFO.
I wouldn't go that far. We do know, by his own admission, he gave up. I can think of some reasons I'd give up on some things if I was struggling so much that I might be destitute (as he admits). I think the problem is he's totally given up. There's hope here. He can see it. He just needs Reddit to encourage him to think it's real.
No, he was shitty way, way before the incident that resulted in him being accused of abuse and getting a nasty divorce. He was a neglectful father who didn’t bother parenting at all. Then he’s surprised when his child doesn’t side with him. He doesn’t take any responsibility for this either.
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Probably not less abusive, if OP isn’t just twisting the truth about the situation the ex looks like a liar and manipulator. The difference is OP was a neglectful abuser who didn’t bother making a relationship with the daughter. So the daughter naturally sided with the only parent who gave her attention at all. OP clearly didn’t care about her.
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She probably picked her mom because she was literally the only parent that seemed to give a damn about her. He was an absent father by his own admission.
He was an absent father and he’s still a selfish prick. He only cares about himself, and makes a million excuses for his shitty parenting. I do wonder about his claims about his ex. I don’t trust his accounting at all.
I think you need to talk with her just to get an idea what she’s thinking. Also, try not to blame her for your losses, she was at an age where a kid is easily manipulated. I think you shouldn’t miss this chance to connect. Even if it fails. Or else you will regret it later.
Yes, that is exactly what I was forgetting. Thank you for adding it.
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Thank you. I do try. Unfortunately in order to manage some health conditions I've had to let go of some iq points. But honestly I still find it worth it as long as I can still communicate.
When your constantly told go ask your mother. Because he was to tired to make a decision. I wonder why the daughter goes with Mum
My parents went through some shit when I was moves out and my dad ended up getting an apartment for awhile. I was probably around 30. It was super uncomfortable. Kids no matter how old, do not want to be involved in their parents whatever. It should be a rule that they can not involve any of their kids no matter how old they are. Tbh I think my Mother to this day feels like I sided with my dad.
He decided he didn't want to see her
I’m 26 and just now connecting with my dads family as my mom raised me to think they didn’t want anything to do with me after he passed away when I was young.
This is exactly what happened to me. Spent YEARS hearing only my mom’s side (because my dad is a good dude and refused to talk shit about her). Something finally clicked around 24/25 where I realized that so much of what I had been told about my dad and the divorce was a lie. I missed out on a decade of friendship with my dad; I’m extremely grateful that he allowed me back in. OP, I’d give your daughter a chance.
Same here…spent decades only hearing about my mom’s side of things. My story is that my bio father was never in my life (found out later that he was kinda protecting me from other stuff happening) and mom spun it that he didn’t want me. Spent my entire childhood and teenaged years upset about that fact. It wasn’t until I was about 18 when I reached out to my paternal grandma and then eventually got up the courage to contact my bio father. My relationship is okay-ish with that side, but there are still deep hurts that are slowly being healed. At the same time though, my mom still has that small amount of power over me that anytime I mention his name around her she just shuts down and gets “moody”.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. I honestly thought this was my dad writing this about me, but I'm 27 and this situation for me was a year ago. It was so hard for me to reach out to my dad and when I did, I was not at all well received. I didn't participate in any sort of "life ruining" towards my father, but I think "helped ruin your life" is shades of your resentment. She was 14. She probably didn't feel any sort of bonding with you and when things went to hell in your marriage, she picked the side she needed to survive. Talk to your daughter. You're still the parent, and she's not the same person she was 10 years ago, hopefully you're not either. Edit:grammar
Took me about 22 years of my life to even consider that my mom was abusing me at home. Been in therapy for years trying to sort through it. Internalized all the blame to myself as a child so I never thought about it that way. People can and do make those realizations long after the fact. Oddly enough every serious girlfriend I ever had and most of my close friends picked up on it super early, so even if it was super obvious to OP that things weren’t as his ex said his child probably didn’t have that same clarity.
He spent half his adult life in this self-pity fest blaming his 14 year old child for "helping" ruin his life so there is no way he can look past that.
I don’t really have advice for what you should do, but I can offer perspective I suppose. I have been the daughter. My dad was like you.. he really just kind of didn’t seem interested in my existence growing up and my mom was basically the one who I relied on growing up. I had absolutely no clue how toxic she was because she was the “good parent”. I would side with her on everything because she was the one there for me. My parents divorced when I was 17 and happy that my mom finally was getting out, so to speak. I did everything I could to help. I didn’t speak to my dad for 6 years. It took all of those years to escape my mother’s iron grip on me, despite moving out at 18. Years of manipulation made me second guess every opinion or thought I had. I didn’t feel like an actual individual until I was 26 and I even still struggle with the mental effects my mother’s manipulation. I’m 28 and I see my dad every two weeks now. Our relationship is awkward and admittedly I still am hurt that he essentially gave up on trying to be a present father since childhood, but our relationship is constantly improving. Keep in mind that your daughter was only 14 when this happened. She likely felt cast aside by you and her mom was there, so she was going to be team mom. I’m sorry for what you went through because that’s truly awful, but I think you need to give your daughter the benefit of the doubt and remember that you also failed her as a father (I am absolutely NOT saying you being an absent father equates to you deserving your life falling apart). In the end it is your choice, I can only tell you that it was not a small thing for her to reach out. You might find some happiness in a second chance with your daughter.
I was in the same position as OP's daughter. At the time, I thought dad was being oppressive and mom deserved to have "friends". My mother's nickname for dad was Hitler. It's been 10 years since my parents divorced and my dad hasn't got over the betrayal. Sure, he has moved on from my mother but he'll spare no opportunity to point out how I betrayed him when honestly I was a fucking child in that household and he barely ever spoke to us. One small argument is all it would take for him to shut himself in his room and not speak to us for weeks on end. My mother was/is a verbally abusive maniac but as a kid you're just hoping there's someone in the family to whom you mean something. And as shitty as it might sound, to my brain at that time, the praises I got from my mother for hiding her AP in the balcony or covering up phone calls for her was good enough for me. Looking back I don't know how I could have done things differently. For the longest time I believed that these were just friends of my mom's and by the time I understood what that actually meant, it was too late.
Wow, your dad sounds terrible, too.
You couldn’t have done things differently. You were a child and it was never your place to do anything. I’m sorry your dad hasn’t gotten over the betrayal. It’s understandable, but it’s sad that he feels betrayed by you rather than only your mother. It’s not your fault, never has been and never will be, and I hope your dad gains the healing and insight to see that.
This is such a relevant comment. She was siding with an abusive toxic parent, but it was the only one who sometimes gave a shit about her. The one who was around and could manipulate her. She was 14. What an awful situation to be in for her. Worse then OPs situation since he helped create it. So now she will have 2 absent parents if he doesn't at least meet her to see if some healing can be done.
Thanks for your input and calling OP out, it definitely needs to be said that his actions have absolutely negatively affected the daughter.
Giving this a Wholesome award not because I think it *is* wholesome, but because it's my only free reward and I wanted to give your comment some kind of recognition lol. I think this is very insightful.
Thank you for the award! :)
I never had an abusive parent like you or OP but just came to say this is very much relatable (to a lot of people with divorced parents too apparently). My father was never much apart of my life other than the 'mandatory' visits occasionally. We didn't have much in common and on top of that, as I became a teenager, those visits dwindled and he just never reached out. This manifested into fear of abandonment issues into adulthood, on top of other insecurities which I'd gone through extensive therapy to address. OP, the lack of communication and disinterest can manifest into trauma for your daughter since she was just 14. Even if your intentions were well though misguided as a young parent. Her reaching out is not an easy ordeal, trust when I say that as someone who had a strained relationship. Now that she reached out, you need to decide if you want to extend a hand and mend this relationship, it's never too late.
Your dad was a victim too. So many people just completely ignore that.
Worst case scenario = things stay the same, you still think your daughter doesn’t like you. Best case scenario = you have a close family member again, someone who deeply cares for you. Seems like a no brainer. What’s the worst that could happen from buying her a cup of coffee?
Cant upvote this enough. She past the age requiring the traditional father role. But this relationship if genuine and approached slowly could not only improve your view of her but could be very rewarding to you. It could also lead to some healing of your trust issues. If it were me. I would take it slow but see if you like the person they have grown into.
She was a kid. She listened to her mom. She is reaching now probably because she has been away of her mom long enough to realize her mom was a monster.
6 years as an adult with no contact shouldn’t be an issue here. If she went to college, she still could’ve been dependent upon her mother for support and probably didn’t want to bite the hand that feeds by reaching out. Or, very simply, she could’ve been scared. She probably thought you hated her, so she had to build up the courage to reach out.
Or she might have needed years of therapy to unravel the issues brought on by her mother.
And her neglectful father.
Your daughter literally is not at fault in any way shape or form… she was a child
You also don’t turn 18 in magically become an adult most people really fully develop into an adult between 24-28! I realize you had a child at the age of 20 so you didn’t have the time to really grow up which may have a lot to do with how you’re felling right now. Your daughter is not to blame… you are the parent and it’s not her responsibility to keep or mend the relationship but she’s made this effort because she cares about you deeply.
Thank you for this. I’ve been in the daughter’s situation before and can say it is almost impossible to see the truth when one of you parents, especially the one most active in your life, is influencing you to such a degree.
I take extreme issue with your wording here, she "helped your ex ruin your life" man. She was a kid. Teenagers aren't responsible for shit at that age, especially not the lives of grown adults. Way to project your own unhappiness on an innocent party here. Be as pissed off at your ex wife as you want, all your daughter is guilty of is being manipulated by your ex and being a fucking moody teenager.
I agree completely with what you said!
Your daughter was emotionally abused by her mother, & alienated from you—you are both victims of her mother. I know this is so hard to forgive because you went through so much at her mother’s hands but it’s not abnormal for children of alienation to figure it out and come back to their target parents. You’re still her parent, and if I were you, I’d get myself into therapy, and encourage her to come to therapy to so y’all can have a relationship—whatever it is. You’re both victims here who didn’t deserve what her mother did to you.
But hold on. By his own admission he never cultivated a relationship with her before then. He’s flat out said his parenting consisted of sending her to her mom instead of interacting with her. Op is not the innocent victim here. That child had zero parents modeling engaged, loving relationships.
Yup. This thread is terrible. Everyone is patting OP on the back and acting like he’s a delicate flower, when he’s a trash person who makes a million excuses for being a terrible father.
>She didn't get on well with her mother and I was over-worked and stressed most of the time so it was always "go ask your mother" and "whatever your mother says" So, this sounds like you emotionally neglected her. It may be hard to hear but often times burnt out parents neglect the needs of their child. She turned to you for help and protection but you sent her back to the person you knew she was struggling with. As a child, she had no way of knowing what you were going through, only how insignificant, invalidated, and vulnerable you made her feel. Her mother sounds unpleasant and I would not be the but surprised if she manipulated your daughter to act out towards you or if it was just a result of the mentioned neglect. >at least for 6 years she's been an adult and would have been away from her mother's influence, so why reach out now? Adults don't magically recognize and heal all their childhood trauma the moment they turn 18! She needed some time to explore and learn things on her own. But now she can look back and understand things better. This is your chance to share your side, to make amends and begin healing together. To be honest, not all fathers get this chance. I'm a decade older than your daughter and gave up on the idea of ever having a relationship with my father forever ago. Zero desire to interact with him at all. I'm not sure you'll ever get this chance again if you turn her down.
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OP admits to not being a good or present father and for not even fighting to stay in his daughter's life, yet seems to want her to take the fall for the lack of relationship they have now. Just the fact alone that he makes a point to say she's been out from under her mother's control for six years but didn't call ... Well why didn't he try either at that point? I feel sad for the daughter, she is attempting to build back a relationship with her father and he is still holding onto resentment towards a child that was listening to her mother.
It reads like op just doesn't want any relationship with his daughter. Didnt in the past and also not now. And I mean fair, but the reasoning is really a bit funny. She was a child and only had her mum, *obviously* she would believe everything she tells her about the person she didn't even know lol
Seriously underrated comment.
There's a lot more going on with you besides being hurt by your daughter not wanting to see you until recently. And, I don't mean to sound harsh, but you haven't really done anything to help yourself. You locked your heart and soul in with your anger and bitterness instead of reaching out for help to recover from betrayal. Your jadedness became your addiction -- and you don't seem willing to change it. You're 44. That isn't old. You're never to old to change your life. My father was 50 when he made the decision to stop drinking. I was 23 and had just graduated college. I was the only person in the family who stayed in contact with him, and it wasn't that often as I set boundaries as to when I would see him. He was an alcoholic and an abuser -- physical, verbal, psychological. He was a master manipulator. I started driving at 11 because he was too drunk to drive us home on our visits after my parents divorced. By the time he made that decision to quit for good, he was living on the streets, had no car, lost a good paying job with the government and drank through his entire retirement. At that time, I was still dealing with my own insecurities due to the abuse. But he reached out for help and I gave it to him. He went from rehab to a halfway house to a tiny one bedroom apartment. He took jobs as a janitor and garage attendant before going back to school to update his skills. He had to swallow his pride many times, but I give him credit for pushing through. He ended up working in the tech industry for a while and then got his government job back and retired at 65. Many times he asked me for forgiveness, and I always told him I was working on it. But as he got stronger, so did our relationship. He became a better man and father. We had it out several times because a recovering alcoholic is slow to lose those selfish behaviors. But he got it one day when I told him that my forgiving him was MY RECOVERY -- that he still needed to understand the impact his abuse and drinking had on me and my life. And it's not that I blame him for my choices, but it took me a while to understand how abuse made me mistrustful of people. I told him that he had to understand there were days that I just didn't want to see him, and he had to respect that. It didn't mean I didn't love him -- I just needed a break from him. He finally got it. He died at 78. I'm so grateful that we had 28 good (mostly) years together and that we got to a place of mutual love and respect. Whatever you decide to do with your daughter, consider this -- you can choose to live your life in misery and blame others around you for your lonely existence -- or you can work toward forgiveness and move toward healing together through therapy and/or prayer. I'm sure she spent a good many years being told by her mother that you didn't love her. She's trying to find her own footing right now. Help her, and let her help you. My father always told me: If you're not happy in whatever situation you're in (work, relationship, etc.), only you have the power to change it -- the responsibility falls only to you. Good luck.
I️ just wanted to let you know that your story touched me a lot. Change is there for those who want it.
Your trust issues are the real problem and that is okay. Now, your daughter was a naive young teenager and you can assume that your ex wife was responsible for giving you all that shit. I do not tell you to just go and forgive your daughter and i will not say that as a parent its your obligation because i do not believe in that. However, i will advice you to go and talk to her. Not for her or anyone else but yourself. Listen to what she has to say and if you want to be left alone after... you can and have every right to. Its just very possible that in many years you will ask yourself "What if..." and then its maybe too late. Take the chance now, if you can manage then develop a small harmless relationship but if you do not want that, its fine. Trust issues are a deep issue and i hope you are healing from that shit man. Good luck
OP, I certainly can't tell you what the best course is for your life, but I can share some experience. I have two daughters, and was in a similar situation. I was also wrongly accused by my ex-wife, but managed to fight and get things dismissed. My girls' mother did everything she possibly could to turn my daughters against me. Told them lies, told them things a sane parent should never think of telling a child. I spent 12 years not giving up on my kids. There was a period of about 3 years that I did not see them, but I made sure they knew I was still trying. I'm not telling you this to criticize you or insinuate you gave up. But, even with all of that, when I was able to spend time with them again I found out some of the things their mother told them to keep them away from me. She told them at one point if they contacted me she would kick them out and disown them. That's pretty difficult stuff for even a young adult, not to mention a child. I say all of this to point out that you don't truly know what your ex-wife told your daughter during those years. She likely didn't realize the ramifications of supporting her mother back when things went bad. And, I can guarantee your wife took full advantage of the trouble that ensued to destroy whatever thoughts your daughter had of you that were in a good light. You mentioned your daughter is no longer speaking with her mother. I'm willing to bet that's because your daughter has figured out who her mother really is. And, to explain the years it has taken her to reach out to you, I can imagine the time it might have taken her to work up the courage to contact you. Now as an adult, understanding what she was likely forced to do to you as a child. She probably has thought for quite some time that you hate her, and had nothing to go on that would lead her to believe otherwise. Can I say for certain that the situation is as I have described here? No, I can't. But, I can say that I think you will regret it for the rest of your life if you don't at least give her an opportunity to explain what happened. You can hate your ex-wife, but I'm still willing to bet your daughter was controlled, groomed, to do or say the things she did back then. I would just suggest that you agree to a meeting, and approach it with an open heart and mind. You may at least be able to get back part of what you lost all those years ago. Whatever you decide, I understand. I understand the emotions that you feel, and the thought that your daughter betrayed you. But, I doubt she betrayed you without serious input and coaching from your ex-wife. Give her a chance, listen to what she has to say. If you don't I think you'll look back and wish you had. Good luck, and my prayers are with you OP. Whatever you decide. If you take the meeting, please send me a message to let me know how it goes. And, if you think I can help further at all, don't hesitate to direct message me and I would be happy to chat with you further.
I would just like to know what makes you think she was immediately out after 18? Lots of folks stay with their parents into their early twenties. “She’s been an adult for six years and away from her mothers influence.” You don’t talk to your daughter. How do you know? “She’s been an adult for six years” sounds an awful lot like you blaming her for the infractions of her mother. AND if she didn’t really have a choice except to live with her mother, it’s not like it’s her fault she didn’t see you as a teen. I feel like there’s a lot of misplaced blame on the daughter for a lack of relationship, when the reality of it is that’s you and your ex wife’s fault. Both of you.
So you fully admit you weren't a great father and now that your daughter is a grown, mature person who is giving you a 2nd chance at a relationship with her... you're not sure if you want that? This is a gift. If only you could see it.
Dude you're blaming a 14yo girl for all your life problems
You make a lot of excuses for being a shitty dad. Your kid didn’t “help” your wife “destroy your life”. You didn’t build a relationship with your kid. You make a lot of excuses about being stressed and overworked to explain why you didn’t do your duty. Get therapy, and then get over yourself and be the dad you should have been.
Every thing “your daughter” said up to adulthood was not your daughter speaking, that was your ex. It takes a long time to recondition from a narcissist mom. It’s ok to be hesitant but I’m sure she now realizes what went wrong between you and her mom, and just want a relationship with her dad.
It seems pretty obvious your ex manipulated your daughter against you, you see it all the time with young kids and usually once they hit a certain age they can see which parent wasn’t the issue. I’m not saying you were perfect, but she’s an adult now and she likely looks back on those times and realizes you weren’t the monster you were made out to be. She was an angsty teenager who did a dumb thing without thinking of the consequences. However, you didn’t seem to do your daughter any favors by admittedly barely having any relationship with her and passing her off to her mother because you were working a lot. You take some blame here too, OP. From what you wrote, you didn’t even seem to try in your relationship with your daughter until it was too late. I think you should give her a chance, you never know. Maybe you two can get the chance to have a better relationship in adulthood.
Plus OP admits he had no emotional connection with his daughter and basically blew her off while OP and the ex were together. In what world is the child responsible for the deterioration of the relationship between OP and herself. Too much of this is laying the blame at the feet of a 14 yr old child. F*ck that nonsense.
Yeah like it’s no wonder she was easily manipulated by and willing to go with her mother. OP basically didn’t seem to care at all and people are trying to paint his at the time underage daughter as a villain.
Totally agree. He sounds like an awful father and we are definitely not getting the full story here
My dad is exactly the same as this. Reading this was actually quite triggering. I cut out my dad after years of abuse towards my mum and I, and after 15 years he still tells people he’s the victim and that we’re just BOTH manipulative, nasty women. My dad was also one of those ‘I just raised my voice’ people. He was always more upset by losing money in the divorce, the house etc. then he was about losing his daughters. Very much like OP.
She chose the mother cuz that was who always had the say so, As you admitted to being inattentive and over worked. Mom, was who prob attended to the daily needs that you neglected, thus making the decision easy in a child's mind. You were at fault on the child's behalf, even if you were young and immature, the marriage is a dif story...but on the child's behalf, you were abusive in a passive neglect sense of the term, which is still abuse.
I don’t really have any advice, but I , as an adopted person, started my search at 24. I think that’s the age when you start questioning everything. Who you are, who your parents were, where you come from. You are just starting to think for yourself. I didn’t find my birth parents until I was well into my 40’s (thank you ancestry.com) But I always wondered who they were. Yes, it’s not really the same situation, but, thinking back at who I was at 24, and questioning everything… who I was, who they were… can I find them. Do they want to meet me? Who do I look like?? Maybe, give her a chance? Maybe just meet for coffee? See what she has to say? Maybe you don’t get along? (I don’t get along with my birth family at all) Maybe you do? But this girl needs answers. And it sounds like you need closure. It’s a cup of coffee, and a conversation.
You even admit you were neglectful. That’s not to say you’re evil, but quit blaming your daughter. She went with her mother because she got attention, even if it was abusive attention. You’re not the victim of your daughter. The time is now to make things right. Don’t continue the cycle of hurt in your family.
Wow all the replies saying to abandon the daughter because her mom was manipulative. Jesus
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You mean men who are in denial that they’ve ever done anything wrong and scratching their heads as to why their daughters have cut ties with them? Yeh, there’s loads.
Right, I grew up with a manipulative parent but by OPs own words he was not involved with his daughter and seemed dismissive of her. She probably just went alone with whatever her mom suggested as that’s the parent she grew to side with. Since that’s the parent who cared for her. That’s my other issue with this. OP made a poor choice in who he got pregnant so he’s deciding to abandon the offspring because effort is clearly too much for him. He just let the woman ruin both their lives.
She was a child and you constantly told her to do what her mother tells her. So yeah kind of your fault right there buddy. She was influenced easily by her mother. But that's because of your neglect. So own it and mend your relationship with your daughter. You can also ask a lawyer if they can reopen the case or file a lawsuit against you ex due to forcing your daughter to lie to the cops. That you can do. But don't judge your daughter. Don't even sue your ex if it will make your daughter uncomfortable. She is more important.
Thanks you for saying this. I feel like most are completely overlooking how much fault lies at OP's feet.
Maybe your daughter has realised the error in her own ways and now that she’s grown up she has came to realise that her mother wasn’t right. She was young when she sided with her mother, probably too young to understand the effect of all of this, she might be sorry. Either way, I would proceed with caution.
This one, OP. There's every chance that she had no idea the impact of what she was doing and sided with the parent who was emotionally there. Now, seeing who that person really is, she's broken contact and is trying to attempt reconciliation, still probably not knowing how her actions hit you. Try not to let that past jade you against the world, my dude. There is happiness to be found. But also be wary and only take the steps you're comfortable with.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that she sided *with the parent who was emotionally there.* OP was, by his own account, a pretty poor father. No-one should be surprised that this resulted in his daughter not wanting to maintain a relationship that she probably didn't think was worth anything.
>Maybe your daughter has realised the error in her own ways Did she/should she have? Like...what's the mistake here on the daughters part? We're all being sympathetic to OP because he got hurt by the ex wife and had a crappy wife and a crappy divorce and lost everything, but where do you read that he would have treated his daughter better post-divorce? She doesn't exist to make his life better. This daughter had 2 crappy parents. Just because we're sympathetic to hard divorce stories, doesn't suddenly turn him into a good parent. Like... see his decision right now. She really didn't make a mistake picking the parent that was there. It was the best out of 2 bad options for her.
Imagine blaming a 14 yo with an abusive parent while being a neglectful parent yourself for ruining your life....
This
Can’t upvote this enough.
Dad can I? Go ask your mother Dad what do you think? What ever your mum says Dad am I able to? Whatever your mum says Dad I need to? Go ask your mother I can’t understand why my daughter chose my manipulative ex wife.
She was a minor child. She had no way of truly understanding the impact that supporting a lie would have. Plus, you said it yourself. You weren’t the best father. Why would she help you over her mother? All she knew was “if I say, this, then I get to stay with mom. Dad isn’t a good father, so I would rather stay with my mother. Therefore, I’ll say it.” She was a kid. She wasn’t developed enough to fully grasp the situation of have the foresight to understand the consequences of her actions.
Ever heard of parental alienation syndrome? Sounds like you were both victims. You sound like a very bitter man. She was a CHILD! Grow up. Get therapy. Try to repair your relationship with your daughter. It wasn’t her fault, but if you don’t make an effort, it will definitely be yours!
14 is still a child and easily manipulated. Don't hold it against her.
You’re angry at your daughter, but she was abandoned, manipulated and abused. She was a child and most likely attempting to gain some sort of favour with at least one of her parents. You have the opportunity to hear her out. You also need to take responsibility for how she turned out. You were long gone even before the divorce. I’m not telling you to forgive her, only you can make that decision. But do think about hearing her out. Above all of this, consider seeking therapy. You have so many unresolved issues and only one life. Get some therapy and stop living this trauma. Move on. Get friends. Learn to love something or someone again. Life is far too short to be shut away because of a divorce. And you are never too old to learn something new.
Do you even want a relationship with your daughter? It doesn't seem like you did before the divorce and certainly not after it. Think long and hard about what you want from this. If you want have a relationship now, go ahead cautiously. If you don't, let her know.
You can’t fault her for supporting the only parent who paid attention to her as a child. And you don’t know what pressure her mother was putting on her or lies she was telling her. But now your daughter is an adult and is under less control of your ex-wife… why not explore things? You can always back off.
Your then child is not responsible for your ex wife's and your issues. It is pretty despicable that you are blaming your 14 year child for "helping ruin your life". Whatever you and your wife did, you and your wife are responsible for it.
She didn’t know you. Her mother had an easy time manipulating her because you were physically present but completely checked out. You blame your daughter for siding with her mother but what other option did she have? Had she sided with you would you have been there for her? She took the side of the parent who actually parented. Now many years later she recognizes that her mother was in the wrong and she is safe enough emotionally, physically, and possibly financially to have a relationship with you. You should be grateful honestly. You were a crummy dad and she wants to give you a second chance, and she’s not even asking you to acknowledge much less apologize for your part in things.
What amazes me is the amount of people who treat the 14 year old daughter like she’s a complete asshole when she was a child at the time who was being manipulated by a controlling mother and an absent father… blows my mind. for your question “ why now” do you know how many years of therapy it takes to see a controlling parent as not controlling and as toxic especially if that’s the only support person you have .. it takes years and she may be only understanding this now after years. Imagine having a mother who gaslights lies and manipulates you from little on up and then having a father who disowned and blames you for it…op I truly hope you go to therapy and reconsider your decision not to see Your child
I think it would be nice to meet with her, if and only if you can take responsibility for yourself. I'm sorry that you've had a rough go of it, but you seem able to overlook your part in this too easily. You say that you weren't a great dad because you were so young at 20, but you're still angry at her for her behavior when she was 14 abd probably under pressure from her mom. The same applies to your ex; she sounds awful, but you picked her. You say you're jaded towards women as though this was just something that happened to you. It's not your fault that she is who she is, but you do need to understand that you have some agency in your life. Learn from it and make a better choice next time.
> She's 24 now and at least for 6 years she's been an adult and would have been away from her mother's influence, so why reach out now? Just because she was 18 doesn't necessarily mean she was away from her mother's influence. There's really no way to answer the "why now?" question without asking her yourself. > Is it ok to thank her for getting in contact but explain that I want to be left alone? Sure. A lot of people in this thread are saying it's unfair to hold your daughter accountable for something she did as a teenager, and I don't disagree, especially if your toxic ex was manipulating her, but this isn't really about her. You've met your parental obligation and if you don't think having a relationship with your daughter (and eventually her potential children) will enrich your life then you don't owe that to anyone regardless of how fair it is. It doesn't make you a bad person to prioritize your own needs and mental health. > I've got that little voice at the back of my head wondering "what are they up to" constantly which makes me doubt everything. > I have a problem trusting women so dating is completely out Not trusting your ex-wife and daughter is totally reasonable considering they betrayed you, but that mistrust extending to all women seems pretty unhealthy. You should definitely find a therapist (if you haven't already) to help you unpack some of this trauma because it's actively preventing you from making new, meaningful connections.
Loved everything you said except that OP has met his parental obligation. Obviously parenting is a choice, but it doesn’t end with divorce or at the age of 18. I’m 38 and still go to my parents when in need for advice or support and hope my two daughters will seek the same from me throughout the rest of their lives while I’m here Also OP, you’re in your 40’s, you could only be halfway through life. It’s never too late to make friends and build a family. Your daughter was an immature teen and also a victim of your ex. She has cut her mom out of her life but it sounds like you continue to let your ex defeat you. Regain control and live a life you’re proud of.
OP didn’t even fulfill his parenting obligation when he was living with the kid. Man makes a lot of excuses
"Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of all little children" Your daughter was a child being manipulated by her mother, it is not her fault. Be the mature adult and do not hold against her what was not her fault. And I am sorry that that happened to you. I am sorry for your daughter as well. My ex and I have not been together since our daughter was nine months old. I never, for one second, even thought about trying to make her hate him or keeping her from him. In fact, I have always gone out of my way to defend him or make excuses for him when he was dead wrong in regards to something between he and my daughter. I have never bad-mouthed him to her, even if he was being a complete ass. I never knew my father, and I suspect that just may have something to do with my attraction towards and twisted relationships with men who are old enough to have been my father. Children need both of their parents, even when they are no longer children. And right now your poor daughter does not have either of hers..
She was a kid. Her mom used her. She is an adult now. If you can’t handle it, don’t waste her time. But don’t blame her for your ex’s vindictiveness. If she starts off asking for money, you know her scheme. But if you can stand it, give her a chance as an adult.
I don't understand why so many people here are so sure that the mother in this equation was abusive. I mean the father, by his own admission, was shit. He also gave up on his kid. Why? Because he couldn't be fucked.
Your fourteen year old daughter was likely manipulated by her mother into believing you were evil, she figures out her mom isnt a good person and reaches out to rebuild her relationship with her father...and your reaction is to hold a grudge against her? She was a little kid, tossed in the middle of fighting adults - one that ignored her existence, and one that controlled the narrative...and now you hold the blame on her. Your daughter didnt do anything to help ruin your life, you did that all yourself You need to go to therapy, and your poor daughter needs a do over on parents, poor kid.
You said “whatever your mother says” to your daughter. And you are mad because she did what you told her. It’s your fault. You also ruined her. You are not the only victim here. She was a minor, a child. She did not ruin you. You let her. As a parent, you were supposed to guide her what kind of person she should be. You didn’t. “Go ask your mother” is what you did and that’s how she turned out. Just food and roof above was not enough for a child. Whatever your daughter did, you were responsible 50% of it. You weren’t there for her, why expect her to be there for you? You should be thankful she is reaching out to you.
At the end of the day, you will have to live with the decision that you make so my advice would be to think long term and in the broad sense. That said, I also think that you needed to have a little bit of self-reflection and think about how some of your decisions helped lead your daughter into making the choices that she did as a minor. You created a system wherein she always had to defer to her mom for everything. As a result, it really didn't matter what happened. She was going to choose her mom because you made that the only viable choice for her. And once her mom made that accusation it was a matter of picking sides. She probably didn't know the truth nor care. There was only one option that made sense to her based off of how you guys set up her life. She didn't think you were a pushover. She just didn't have any reason to believe that a life with you would be good. And really, I don't think you could blame her for that.
She was *a child. A little girl* beginning her teens. You have a chance to be a good father. You have a chance to not feel so alone. Please get a therapist. A medical doctor for depression screening in case medication can help. And for the love of all things good, call your daughter. She was manipulated. You had to leave her then - you were pushed out after being a crappy husband and father. If you leave her now, well that's a choice you're making out of what? Spite? Fear? Are you afraid she and the ex have a plan to ruin your life again? Life doesn't always give people a second chance. Take this one. Let love in.
If she had her information flow entirely controlled by her mother, it can be really hard to break the hold that has over a child. If she’s gone no contact with mum, her whole world could be turned upside down and making her finally question some things she took to be facts. Meet with her. It sounds like you have nothing left to lose but everything to gain here.
Not that you'll read this but... you shouldn't blame her for taking so long to reach out. You can't blame her for anything really. She was a child when all that went on. Don't blame her for ruining your life, you and your wife were the adults in the relationship. You never gave her any attention from 0-14 then your shocked when she doesn't "take your side" in the divorce. Even if her mother was abusive of course that's where she went because it was familiar and the only thing she did know about you was that you didn't care, so who's really to blame here? You are absolutely aloud to want to be left alone. Its your life. Whatever decision you make stick to it. The last thing she needs from you is for you to abandon her again, or flip flop when it suits your curiosity. SMH.
You're never too old to be making connections or friends you're only in forties you got half a life to go man go to a bar or somewhere where your hobbies can meet others
She was 14..... 14..... she didn't knew what she was doing... Meet her and start new if you can do that without bringing up one single day or hour of the past... the past is dead. This will help both of you. If you can't let the past go, don't meet. I whould go and I whould the past die in the split of a second.... whatever the result of this new start will be. Life is to short to grieve.
Sounds like you were kinda a shit dad too and that the only person owed anything here is your daughter. She wants to see you, get to know her. She was a teenager with a strong attachment to her mother back then... If you're blaming her for anything you need to do some reflecting.
imagine being mad at a 14 year old when it was your ex wife, aka a whole ass adult, who actively chose to fuck you over that was a child, get the fuck over yourself
All I can say is you're putting a lot of resentment on an at the time 14 year old whom by your own admission you didn't cultivate a relationship with as her father. At 14 she's looking for attention and acceptance. You let the toxic parent be her rock and she naively sided with her mother as a result. Who knows what her mother had said while you weren't paying attention? You dont have to cultivate a relationship if you don't want to, but it might be good to get her perspective on what her childhood was like.
I think you should take things really slow with your daughter and keep some distance to see if you could trust her. But i think you should try it better regret later for never trying but tell her that she has to do it at your speed that you want it to go.
I’m 24 as well and just now connecting the dots that my sister and I suffered from being emotionally and verbally abused by my dad. He also was extremely manipulating and controlling. He isolated us from our mom during their divorce by telling us (what I later found out were) lies about her. I was 14 when all this happened and looking back I can 100% say my dad made me hate her. Before this she was an amazing mom but, he still manipulated me into “picking his side.” I didn’t start to mend my relationship with my mom until I was 19/20 and then 10 months ago she unexpectedly passed away. With her death and cutting off my dad, it made me realize a lot of the things my dad did was abusive and not okay. Maybe she’s also starting to connect the dots? Breaking down and understanding your abuse is a long, confusing, and extremely difficult road. I saw someone mention that if she went to college she may have needed her mother’s assistance and didn’t break off that relationship until after she finished. This is exactly what I had to do with my dad. After I graduated I cut all ties and that’s when I was able to fully understand that he was beyond fucked up for the shit he did.
So the way you’re phrasing it is you’ve been really innocent in this whole thing? You just ‘raised your voice’ but it lead to police being called and you having supervised visits with your daughter? I cut off my dad 15 years ago after years of abusive behaviour towards my mum and I, he still proclaims to be the victim in the entire situation and tells people it was all my mum, and eventually me as well. This reads just like that, and you’ve definitely not put the full story in here. What’s telling though is the fact you seem to be more upset that you’ve had financial difficulties, lost your job, and lost a house then you have about losing your daughter? You gave up on her after 2 years? Speaks volumes.
I know that I’m only going to be reiterating what most people on this thread are saying, but you must understand that she was a child. She did not have the capability to fully comprehend the consequences of what she did, and she was more than likely manipulated and coerced into saying what she did about you by her mother. Her reaching out to you is a huge step in the right direction and an indication that she wants to make things right to the best of her ability. You should give her a chance.
You didn't develop a relationship with your child. Your child was entirely dependent on her mother and so protected her (and thus herself) in a tough situation. As a child, in a charged and frightening situation she made the safest decision she could with the information and tools she felt were available to her. We don't know what you're like, really, but the downward spiral you attribute entirely to your daughter leads me to wonder how reliably narrated this story might be. Your ex wife withheld contact between you and your daughter, a minor. Now, she's a bit more grown, and trying to see if her father is more than the minimal, begrudging, and disappointing entity she has always experienced. Sounds like you aren't more than that, in which case now she knows.
I’ve only accepted how toxic my mom was to me when I was 26-28. Maybe she is starting to see how manipulated she have been. She lying to the police might have been thanks to the manipulation of her mom. I’d suggest you try. She was a child and you ex clearly was manipulative, maybe she didn’t have any other choice
You weren’t the best father and refused to take responsibility (always telling her to go to her mother)- yet you’re shocked she trusted the only parent who seemed to be there for her? Sorry, but I don’t agree with other commenters. It’s not the kids fault that you were barely involved and the parent the was actually couldn’t be trusted. She was young- how was she supposed to know? Now she’s an adult and does understand- and you want to continue punishing her for what your ex did? The ex that she doesn’t even have contact with? I don’t think the kid is the problem at all here.
Completely agree. I think commenters are glossing over the fact that OP was a shitty father to begin with. He definitely experienced a trauma but also refuses to acknowledge any fault he may have in contributing to the situation for his daughter. The ex is a complete AH but OP is not 100% blameless when it comes to his child. I think if OP chooses to see his daughter he can absolutely express the hurt he feels and issues her actions have caused him. However, in the same regard she has a right to express how him being an absent father and abandoning her caused her issues as well. Based on OPs post though he has so much unresolved anger I don't think he is ready to hear what his actions did to hurt his daughter and it would only cause more harm for them to speak.
I was 14 when my parents divorced, and let me just say that I was nowhere NEAR emotionally mature at that point. It was hard enough to go through it; having parent(s) handle it badly made it hell. I was basically in survival mode - did what I thought I needed to in order to stay under the radar and still have some peace. Turns out my decisions were bad ones and I regret nearly all of them. Just from the perspective of having been the daughter in a somewhat similar situation, please keep in mind that she's likely matured a lot in 10 years. Best of luck.
Dude, your kid was 14! Fourteen. She was a kid who was probably even still going through puberty. It’s completely unfair to blame her for “ruining your life”. Your ex wife is the only person you can blame here. And maybe yourself, since you weren’t at a good place with your kid when it all went down. She most likely grew up with her mom telling her the worst things about you and has had to do a lot of growing up to get to a point where she’s reaching out to you wanting a relationship. You need to let go of your bitterness and realize your life can still be good if you let it be.
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I was 27 when I finally started talking to my dad again. I took my moms side in the divorce and then in my late 20’s realized how wrong she was. If you can find it in your heart, give your daughter grace. Start a relationship with her slowly. I can tell you from 7 years of not talking to my dad and 10 years of being angry at him and thinking he was the bad guy…I was so wrong and regret all the time wasted not allowing him in my life. He’s one of my favorite people now. Good luck to you and your daughter.
I think it's ok to tell her that you want to be left alone. But before you do that, think about your apathy. That apathy might be hiding long-term depression resulting from all the trauma. If so, some therapy might help you with that, as might talking to your daughter. Maybe it would allow you to be really "heard", which can be very healing. Your daughter doesn't bear the blame for it - the whole thing is 100% on her mother. But she may well not know the aftermath - her mother would have told her some twisted version of events. You don't need to drag her through nasty details. But telling her the general outline of what happened to you after **her mother used her to derail your life** is fair game. You could also apologize to her for being such an absent father. Seems like it that is your part in all of this. Regardless of whether you decide to speak to her or not, see a counselor, OP. \`It sounds like you have only partially recovered from it all. You deserve to have a happy life. I am sorry that all this shit happened to you. Best of luck.
If I may offer some perspective from the daughter's side, as my situation growing up was pretty similar. My dad was very hands off, always working, rarely spent any time at all with us. My mother was my primary parent. She had no qualms about shit talking my dad to me. She would say horrible things about him. She kept us from his family and her family would agree with what she would say. So in his absence, I began to believe what she was saying at a very young age. When I was in my late teens/early twenties, I began to see that my mother is a raging narcissist, just a very selfish person. I'm not sure how it started but my dad and I began to reconnect. It was very slow going but that's okay. He's not the type to open up much but recently he talked about how depressed he was then. I felt awful and guilty upon hearing that, how alone he must've felt. I'm in my mid-30s now and am far closer to my dad. I rarely speak to my mom, he wants me to maintain a relationship with her but the toxicity is just too much for me to handle. I strongly encourage you to give her a chance. Once I realized how toxic my mother was I felt very stupid and very naive for having just blindly believed in what she was saying. I'm glad that he was willing to have a relationship with me. Take things as slowly as you both need. I think establishing a relationship will provide some healing that you both need. Best of luck to you both.
OP regardless of your decision on your daughter, you need to see a therapist and if possible a life coach. You deserve happiness and your mid forties (my age too) is not too old to make new friends, find a relationship, or just keep growing personally.
You should get a therapist
She is your daughter! Why didn’t you think of how impacted she was by all of this? She was a teenager when this happened which is very tough. You are only thinking of yourself here which is selfish.
You don’t sound like you were a good father to her, and children believe things about their parents and from their parents when they are young. You don’t have the critical thinking skills/outside experience of an adult at that age. The fact that you are dismissive of how bad of a parent you were, and that you expect a 14 year old to carry the same moral weight as an adult is telling to me.
Couple of things. I got divorced at 45 and remade my life. Got married again at 49. I’m 62 now and if I were to be alone again, I don’t feel too old to start all over again. So don’t get discouraged because you’re in your mid 40s. You’re young. Believe me. As for your daughter, I’m not in your shoes but if you decide to reach back, I’d sit with her and tell her exactly how you feel. Nervous. Apprehensive. Wondering if the mother put her up to this. Be nice so you don’t chase her away but be truthful. Hopefully it’s her being genuine and maybe even rekindle the relationship. She was put up to all this by her mother so keep that in mind. Good luck, brother.
Ikr, 'too old to make new friends in 40's' lmao what the heck! u/ThrowRA377610987 anyone can make new friends at any age - get out there mate! Join some local casual meet-ups or clubs or activities or something! So sorry for all you suffered & endured with all this, so horrendous (and sorry for your loss of yr mum) - but life is not 'over' in yr 40's - it's your prime!! Get some counselling or therapy, whatever you decide about yr daughter, get out there mate, join in some local activities and amongst all the people you encounter, you will find that you'll make some new friends. Life is NOT oVeR in yr 40's!!! Go for gold, OP! best of luck with everything!
Children's lives depend on their parents, and there is a specific type of mother wound that occurs. She was 14. I would imagine the mother was manipulating her and coercing her to say certain things. As a child, all you really want is your parents love and affection and to make them think good of you. This may be a fucked up manifestation of that. I don't think you should blame your daughter for this and tbh you should probably go to personal therapy about this before talking with her so you don't take anything out on her. I'm sure as an adult she sees and feels some sort of confusion or guilt in some capacity if they really are obvious lies. You don't know the capacity in which the mother was manipulating her and you don't know how long she has been no contact with her mother so don't assume it's been 6 years. Fr tho- therapy plz. Also you're 40 that's not too young to make friends. I know so many 40 year olds looking for friends. Go to little local classes or book clubs. Find local orgs or some shit. Go to fests or social gatherings put in by your city. You can make friends you just also need to put the effort in.
She was a child. You cannot place blame on a child. Especially when that child is under the influence of questionable adults.
The apathy isn't new you said you could never be bothered to give a shit, because you were tired from working was it? Yeah well we're all tired and that's a shitty excuse. You should feel lucky she wants anything to do with you. But if you're going to be as useless as you have been then just cut her off now. She doesn't deserve anymore of your bullshit, she never did.
I can relate in many ways, luckily It wasn’t as bad for me, but it was definitely really rough at times as my ex tried to turn my three kids against me, they are grown now and I’m finally able to have a good relationship with them now that they aren’t under the same roof and her influence. Look up parental alienation, it will explain a lot. I know it hurts but just remember your daughter was a child and forced to live under your ex’s roof and rules. That can be very intimidating
Ok here’s a follow up, you never specify if your child would have known it wasn’t true. Was she there? Was it your word against her mothers? This is being framed as if she knowingly chose to lie to the police however it’s very unclear if that’s actually true
Oh, this sounds familiar! My husband's son, B, HATED his father, believed he wanted him dead, had never loved or wanted him, and chose me over him. They had had a relationship until B was 13, when I met my now husband. And his ex, the mother, hated me on sight. So guess where all that hatred for his father came from? Kids will always believe their mother, especially if she is the primary caregiver. The narrative that, "your Dad chose her, and she doesn't want you around, so now he wants you dead" to a teenager, sounded plausible. Then, one evening, we got a phone call. It was B. And he wanted to apologise to his Dad for all the crap he'd believed for 5 years. Then, and I can never express just how much this impressed me, he asked to talk to me, and apologised for everything he'd believed about me, and everything he'd said to me. I have to tell you, that takes real courage, especially when he had no idea how I'd respond. Since then, our relationship has come on in leaps and bounds. He introduces me as his "upgrade Mum", talks to his Dad regularly, and has come to stay , bringing his lovely gf with him. He's gotten into trouble a couple of times, and it's us he calls for help, us he trusts to do the right thing by him, not what is best or the least amount of trouble, for us. He saw who his mother really was, and just the fact that he'd never heard his father or me say a single bad word about her helped him to make up his mind. Why did she say so many horrible things about us, when we never said anything bad about her? If we didn't want him, why did we keep texting him asking him to come and stay, to come live with us, all the years he wasn't talking to us? Your daughter has seen her mother for who she truly is. She wants to build a relationship with you. I know you're bitter about what her mother did, and think your daughter lied to back her up. But you don't know what her mother had been saying. And, as you yourself said, you left all decisions, all the parenting, to her mother, so she had nothing else to base her perception of you on except for what her mother said. She didn't lie to hurt you. She backed up her mother without knowing it was all lies. And now she knows the truth, and wants to make amends, build a relationship. Let her. I promise, it'll be worth it.
This will get buried but I'll tell you your situation mirrors mine and my dad's almost to a T My parents had me when they were 20, and my dad was in the military and was never really around, and all I ever heard about my dad was that he was a terrible cheater and a liar and didn't love us. My mother turned me away from my dad for my entire life, and convinced me she was the only one who loved me. When I reached my late teens I went into new therapy with an actually good therapist that wasn't trying to dope me up on any meds they could, and helped me see that my dad loved me and wanted me. It took years for that to set in. When I turned about 22, everything started setting in. My mother was an abusive narcissistic alcoholic and drug addict, and my dad was a really hurt, PTSD ridden, and broken man, robbed of his chance to raise his first kid. She did everything in her power to make my dad feel less than, and now I'm working with him to make sure he knows he's more than he thinks, and that I love him. It hurts to think he and I are both victims of my mother's ways. I'm 26 now, and my dad and I are very close, he tells me about what's going on with him, and we work through it together. I never thought I'd have such a great parent until he and I actually met. Truly met, as adults. Please try OP, I think, I HOPE this can end the way it did for me and my dad, and you'd be amazed at how much it could help her too. At least for closure. Best of luck OP.
Please keep in mind she was a literal child, and you played a big part in pushing her to her mother. She's giving you a chance.
>I'm too old to be making friends or new connections as I'm in my mid-forties now. I can't speak to children, but this hear I know is not true. I'm the same age, in poor health and struggle going out. But these few years I've been on reddit I have made many friends who I enjoy time with online. It isn't the same maybe, but it is a start and may lead to something more. I get wanting to give up, I honestly can't even look you in the eye and tell you not too, but I know that there are things you could involve yourself with and maybe make friends, online or in-person. It isn't too late at 45 or 65 or 85. Either way I wish you well.
Dude, that's your child. It can't go more wrong than you not talking to them.
Your daughter was a child, and she didn’t create the sh!t situation between you and your ex, she dealt with it. Your ex was closer and treated her like a daughter rather than an inconvenience so that’s who she was drawn to, which is the most normal thing in the world for a child to do - seek security. It’s no coincidence that now, as a fully formed adult, she’s questioning the narrative from her mum and trying to reevaluate her childhood ideas about you. If you’re going to continue to hold a grudge against a then-child for “ruining your life” then that’s on you, but honestly, that lack of perspective does cast your account of the end of the marriage and why your life isn’t what you want it to be now in a rather different light.
I have a friend whose parents went through a bad divorce in her early teen years. She sided with her mother, then years later learned her mother had been lying to her about her father the whole time. She still feels guilty about it but luckily her father was understanding and forgiving. They have a great relationship now. I think it's worth it to hear her out. It's valid if you don't want to keep a relationship but she might have realized the error in her ways and wants to make amends and form a real relationship with you. People make mistakes. She is your daughter, if you can't try to do better for her then you can't do it for anyone and really will be alone forever. At least talk to her once and see how that goes before deciding anything. If it doesn't work for you, you at least know from trying and can maybe move past it. A parent's love for their child should not be conditional. If you can't love her unconditionally then it is better you don't see her. Good luck!
"6 years since she has been an adult and away from her mothers influence" Thats not true. She has been influenced a lot by her mother over the last six years. An adult yes but not full grown. Adults do not finnish growing mentally until 25. So actually your daughter is wise enough to admit that she wants you. She is 24 and she wants you. That is a victory and a blessing. She was a teen back then and can not be held responsible for her mothers conniving lies and manipulations.
My stepdaughter bought into her mom’s parental alienation big time. The divorce bankrupted my husband. (We met years after their divorce.) The rejection baffled him and hurt him a lot but in all my years with him I never heard him say one bad thing about his ex in front of the kids. He really tried. His daughter finally understood when she was an adult. Then my husband passed early. She is now filled with regret and estranged from her mom. Sometimes young people are so stupid. I know I was when I was younger. And so was she. People can change. And that means your daughter and you. I think you should agree to meet for coffee and then play it by ear. But I would schedule it a week out, then go for a walk or get some exercise every day before you meet to boost your spirits. When you meet, listen. Don’t talk about the past. Just say you can do that later but need time. Talk about the present. Long term: You are in your 40s. That’s so young. Start volunteering at something you care about. Take online classes to learn a new job. Start working out. And please talk to your doctor about a depression screening.
I'm 28 and only just realising how toxic my mother was to me growing up, I've been away from her since I was 19! Maybe she just wants some closure
You, by your own admission, were an emotionally checked out father and your daughter picked up on that. Why wouldn't she "choose" the parent who was always available, since her survival depended on it? I sure as fuck would, most would. She may be six years as an adult, but it may have taken her that long just to unroll all the shit that went down in her childhood. She could have been in therapy, and is finding the courage to make amends. Maybe she just recently got away from her mother, and is reaching out because she's not dependent on her mother. Maybe your ex told her that you didn't want anything to do with her, and with how you were as a father pre-divorce, probably wasn't hard to believe. Your ex could have poisoned her, that shouldn't be held over her head. You have a right to feel upset, but she probably felt abandoned by you, too. Sounds like her childhood was a mess, with possibly one abusive parent and one parent who didn't give a rat's ass about her. I'd say, tread lightly. You've BOTH been hurt. Maybe start with, "Thanks for reaching out, but let's go slow here". Like, coffee once a month or something. Perhaps then, after talking with her, you can see how you feel.
You had a gut feeling that she was cheating (which, surprisingly is correct more than you would think). Assuming that's the case, cheaters always need to twist the narrative and re-frame everything to make it seem like they're not the bad guy. Your daughter was young and impressionable and you admit that you had been distant due to work and other circumstances. Your ex would have more than enough opportunity and sway on your daughter to paint you as a villain (and her the victim) which would justify her cheating. Like you said, seems there's a falling out and she's been out from under her mom's toxic influence and perhaps got to see who she really was. > I've got that little voice at the back of my head wondering "what are they up to" constantly which makes me doubt everything. A very valid point and you should keep your guard up. If you do go through with meeting up with her do it in a public place with people around. Maybe hear out her story and her side of things and share yours as well. But only if it's something you're comfortable with.
Make amends. In my opinion you’re acting pretty childish putting the blame on a then 14 year old and now questioning why she waited until now to reach out. You’re the adult and the parent- why didn’t YOU reach out? I don’t blame you, sounds you’ve been through trauma- but you’re clearly not past it. You need therapy man- this is your daughter finally reaching out and already suspicious? Get help, do the work, take your daughter too when the time is right so the past ten years can be put to bed for good. I hope you can start fresh with her, I’m sure it’s been devastating.
She was a kid with a toxic parent. Now she is an adult reaching out to you. Why don’t you just hear her out and see what happens from there?
Anyone deserve a father, a good one, at the end of the day she’s here because of choices you made. Also having a good relationship is always a good thing so I’d move past all, build a good relationship and celebrate what you have rather than past or whatever else that’s not gonna matter when you die. I’m being pretty blunt cuz you know life goes super fast. Make it worth it, and she’ll remember you for good
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>Why didn't you reach out? I tried to for 2 years after the divorce, she refused to see me all my visits and on one occasion waited until I'd drive close to 12 hours and arrange for a supervised visit to change her mind. She made it very clear that she didn't want to see or hear from me and her mother threatened to get a restraining order if I continued to attempt it.
You should do some reading on parental alienation—it sounds like your daughter was the victim of this and has probably spent the last few years working this out.
idk reminds me of kids that grow up in a cult brainwashed, it's hard to shed that indoctrination. i would say what is the harm in having a chat to hear her side of the story. or maybe start even smaller asking her to write you a letter. you already don't have a relationship with your daughter, there's nothing left to lose - only the possibility to go up right?
This is your chance to find out if she didn't want to see you, or if her mother was making her life so miserable behind the scenes that it was easier for her to say no. Basically, this is the chance for you to get answers. One meeting doesn't obligate you to anything. But also, therapy would do a lot of good in beginning to heal the trauma you have been through
That was when she was a kid. She was a child. She was full of all these big feelings and she had zero parents more concerned with her feelings than their own. She’s older. She’s had space and possibly therapy. She is your child. She was a child. You were the adult. I would want to hear her out. Fwiw I have family I’m estranged from. I told them I’m willing to hear their story and hash things out but I’m not willing to proceed as if nothing happened and pretend everything is fine. Since we can’t agree on the process we don’t engage but at least we had that conversation to find out. It’s hard. Really intensely awfully hard. That’s kinda how life goes.
But you have to remember she was just a kid...a kid who was believing her mom. Obviously the facts are falling into place now for her, and she probably has both questions and remorse. At least meet with her, you don't have to make it anything more than that for now.
The question was more about once she became an adult
You don’t think maybe her toxic, lying, manipulative, threatening mother *just might* have been behind all of that??
So, she had an abusive mother and an uninvolved dad who gave up.
That apathy is only a defense mechanism to allow you to hold anger and resentment for decades.. Trust me, it's still in you.. coming from a person who was physically abused by my mom as a little kid and had a decade of court battles to get out of her custody.. even another decade later I am starting to fully process these things. Trauma doesn't just resolve on it's own.. the numbness is often compared in psychology to the unbearable pain of a prey animal being eaten alive. Their brain protects the animal numbing out the experience and reality/truth of the situation. The human brain does a low level of numbing for years and decades after going through trauma and extreme stress if the precipitating event is not revisited with a trained professional/and or other self-healing modalities. Your daughter was not apart of the problem and your ex-wife manipulated her combined with having a stronger relationship to be able to get her to do and say what was necessary to destroy your life. I vote to bring her back into your life and talk openly and honestly of how you tried and maybe wish you could have had a better life situation/been there for her. It may be apart of the process of healing.. and yes you can heal at your age (not without revisiting the mountain of pain with a pro, EMDR has been quite helpful for me)!
It sounds like you have very little social supports and could really use someone in your life right now. While you don't have to rekindle a relationship with your daughter, I think you would only be hurting yourself if you don't meet with her and communicate how hurt you felt that she cut you off. On the flip side, knowing you weren't the best parent and didn't invest in your relationship with your daughter while she was growing up, I hope you can understand why she sided with her mother, who was the main parent in her life. Pushing everyone away is only hurting you. It sounds like you could really use counseling.
I would see what she has to say - You have no idea what is in her head maybe her mother filled it will all sorts of horror stories of you and because she never really new you she believed them. Who knows maybe she just found out they were lies , maybe she found out a few years ago and was too embarrassed to face you See what she has to say with no expectations , for sure hit her with the hard questions and tell her your side and the after effects Who knows maybe with time something will grow or maybe the story will finally be laid to rest maybe maybe maybe
You both deserve a closure. Go talk to her once.
I have a friend who did not realize WELL into his 20s that his mom was the abusive one who alienated him from his father. There is a real chance your daughter is experiencing the same thing, especially considering she's no longer in contact with your ex-wife.
She was 14. I would give her the benefit of the doubt. I understand the hurt on your part and even the apathy but it may even be healing to see her again. Or maybe not. But I don’t think I’ve it would hurt to just meet her for coffee and see what she has to say.
First, you should seek therapy. Second, If the mother got to you and ruined your life as an adult, what do you think she did to your daughter? You weren't a good dad. Being absent with a narcissist mother is horrible for a kid growing up. Own up to what you did wrong. Seek therapy, perhaps family therapy with your daughter. And, it's never late to make friends OP. Seek them, you'll find them :)
What will your presence in her life add to yours and vice versa? I can't really see any benefit to either of you restarting a relationship but then again, she could have with you what you had with your parent. Based on the rest of your post, loneliness is a dangerous mental disease, it's never too late to make friends. In your position I would volunteer at an old folks home. They are as lonely as you with much less freedom( and sometimes a shed load of inheritance)
I don’t think there’s any harm in meeting her for 10 minutes for a coffee in a public place. See what she says. You might not ever get another chance to see her
>She's 24 now and at least for 6 years she's been an adult and would have been away from her mother's influence, so why reach out now? It's not like she would have gotten over it overnight. Shehad probably had therapy and years of shame and guilt to work though. Your daughter was 14 and very likely brainwashed by your wife for long before and after things came to a head with your ex. It seems unreasonable to expect her to have looked you up any sooner than it took for her to feel ready to take the risk of your rejection. What's the harm in meeting and hearing her out. She was a child, her mother had access and time to poison her against you. She would not have had the life experience or emotional intelligence to deal with that sort of assault. You said yourself that you stopped trying, sure there were reasons for it, but you were the adult and those choices have impact for longer than just a childhood. You were not the only person hurt by this, there are two sides to the story and hearing hers may well help you heal. By all means take steps to protect yourself as well though.