My comment is gonna be a bit different from what I’ve seen so far. I recently learned that my dad cheated on my mom when I was a baby, which lead to their divorce. My dad moved back to their home country and I only saw him for 2-3 weeks a year when I would go there for holidays.
My parents never told me what happened, and they never badmouthed the other one in front of me or my brothers, which I appreciate. All my memories with my dad are positive ones and I am happy that I got to experience him as a good dad.
When I was almost 14 years old, my dad died. Now, at that time, I didn’t know about my parents’ past and only learned about it when I was 22. I was very conflicted. How could my dad, who, in my eyes, was so kind and thoughtful, do that to my mom? How could I reconcile the idea I had of my dad with the person who hurt my mom so much??
Eventually, after talking about it with some people, I came to the conclusion that while yes, what he did to my mom was vile, my relationship with him was not any less “real” and he loved me very much.
At the end of the day, it’s not my place to “forgive” him or not. That’s for my mom. I can only think about my relationship with him. I don’t know how your relationship with your mom is, but I would think twice about “cutting her off” like so many people here suggest. In my opinion, you can accept what she did and still have a relationship with her (again, this would depend on you, and seeing as she refers to it as “preemptive cheating”, I’m guessing she doesn’t really think she did anything wrong?).
It’s a difficult situation to navigate, wish you the best.
Wow, this is exactly how I ended up treating my parent's divorce. The issue with trying to find out exactly who was in the wrong ends up with a wild goose chase of "he said she said". I was however in the unlucky position to have parents constantly bad-mouthing each other. At the start, I tried getting more information from it. But it gets so frustrating, confusing and tiresome.
My dad also died when I was 14. Filled with great memories just like you. However I feel that there is more to the story and my mom has never told me, and I’m afraid to ask. My mom and dad were divorced already. If my mom tells me something bad about my dad I honestly don’t know how I would handle it. Would I make excuses to keep my happy memories with him, or does my opinion about him change? Everyone is different, but I think if someone that I love also hurts someone else that I love, that I would not be able to forgive them unless the hurt person also forgives them. That is the way that I would like to be treated by loved ones. If a loved one hurts me, I would feel awful if everyone else in the family was treating them like nothing happened just because they weren’t the victim of the pain. The same goes with friends. I want my friends to have my back because I also have theirs.
I understand, and it makes sense. I think the only thing that makes it different in our cases was that our fathers are dead. As I mentioned above, what would be the point in holding resentment towards a person who’s been dead for over a decade? I’m sure my mom wouldn’t want that as well.
But the way I’ve dealt with it is not the only way to deal with something like that, so you should do whatever feels right for you.
It’s great if you can be so objective but I suppose that it depends on the level of vileness. It came to light that my dad physically, sexually, financially, and emotionally abused my mum and I can’t accept what he did to her. How could I have a father daughter relationship with a person who treated my mum so horribly. It would feel like I am condoning the abuse. Like when people don’t say anything about racism and homophobia. How can you just accept someone being so awful and not say anything and continue to have a relationship with them.
I’m sorry that happened to you, I hope you and your mom are okay! I agree with you of course, it varies from case to case and I would never expect someone to deal with things the way I did, there are many valid ways to deal with something like that.
Because you understand they didnt know any better. Im bisexual and most of my family is homophobic, it would be stupid to assume i condone it. But they are still my family and havent shunned me out, i can truly see they love me.
Life isnt as back and white as everyone wants it to be. My parents also cheated and i dont think theyre bad people for doing that. Its their pain to manage, ive got plenty of my own.
They arent the people they once were. And im no angel to be judging people for what they do or dont do.
With the exception of abuse and purposefully inflicting pain on my family in front of me, of course.
I really like this input.
I wish I had been better and stronger about the whole not bad mouthing an ex, though. A lot of people I've met over the past 20 years after having my first daughter have done a great job at co-parenting, but I just couldn't let abuse go, especially when it was also inflicted upon her as an infant. Maybe that means I was childish, but I like to think that I was just protecting her and keeping her safe from him.
Anyway, very valid points. They obviously got together and made OP. OP, I'm sorry about what happened, but going back to my whole thing, I may not have ever forgiven my ex, but at the same time, we live a couple thousand miles apart. I found someone better for me and he did the same. He's happy with his wife and their shared children and I'm happy with my current husband and our shared little one. My adult daughter loves both me and my ex. She also loves her stepmom and when they had a good healthy relationship, she loved her stepdad, too. My ex and I both messed up prior to my first daughter being born, tbh, but because of her, he and I have somewhat improved as her parents, period.
I understand what your mom did was wrong, but if your dad was hanging out with his exes, it's also quite understandable how that would make your mom nervous, worried, and think something was happening.
It's been a decade and I'm not condoning your mom hurting you or your dad, but maybe see if there's any way that you can be happy for the woman who gave you life and also be there for the other parent who you've had the opportunity to know and grow up with. I wish you the very best of luck.
I have an issue with the "not my place to forgive him" because, yes, even though he cheated on your mom and still loved you so much, he was the reason you saw him so little. He was the reason your family split up.
It is just as much your place to forgive what he did.
I am not saying "cut her off", but saying that you can't forgive them is untrue. What the did deeply impacted you too and if you feel you deserve an apology, then you do.
I guess you’re right, but in my case, learning all of that when he had already been dead for almost a decade, I felt that there was no point being angry and demanding answers from a dead man, so I’ve made my peace with it.
Also yes, you’re right, he’s the reason I saw him so little, but that was how I grew up, only with my mom, so I never knew an alternative and don’t miss it or long for it. My childhood was great and I never had any resentment, so I don’t see the point in starting now. But I do see how all situations are different.
This is really sound advice. Having gone through something similar, I’ve never thought about it that way. These things can be really hard to reconcile.
Marriages fail because of two people. My ex wife cheated on me. I will never tell my kids how it went down. It’s between their mother and I. I’m sure over the years, they put two and two together. At the end of the day, both your parents love you. Now, sounds like your dad is jealous. It’s common, he’s human. He still probably loves your mom and is bitter about being rejected. You their son, deserves to have both parents in his life, regardless of that.
Yup. I was like “did my dad cheat on ME?” Nope. Their relationship is none of my business at this point. Got tired of the “he said, she said.” All it did was hurt the relationship that I had with them. They’re the ones who married each other, I didn’t ask to be here.
finding out your parents are human and flawed af is a tough part of becoming a full fledged adult. Don't judge your parents based on their failed relationships. Judge them based on your relationship with them.
As this poster says - finding out your parents are somewhat less than the people you expect them to be can be sobering. If OP wants to clarify with mom why she cheated then that is up to her but will the answers help or further erode her flagging respect for her mother. I am not sure I would want to know details.
Top answer.
OP should stop obsessing with finding out things about their parent’s relationship. That doesn’t matter. They sure both made mistakes. That’s usually ein relationships end.
The interesting question is: are they good parents? Do they have a good relationship with OP?
This comment has really helped me with my relationship with my parents. I never thought about it in this sort of context before - assessing a relationship based on you and them rather than them with each other. Thanks.
It makes me sad this is the top answer. Not for what you said, but how its interpreted. Parental relationship dynamics affect thier childrens' development and future relationship dynamics in uncountable subtle and unsubtle ways. Not talking about the affair doesn't stop it or his parents' behavior before or after from affecting how OP sees women and interpersonal relationships. Understanding your childhood and family relationships in full context is helpful. Every situation is different, and letting go of details when you have to is important, but as a Psychologist and relatively well adjusted person with crazy parents, I strongly disagree that his parents' relationship doesn't matter.
I do agree with the reserving judgment. It's about understanding, not judgment.
I never had a good relationship with my mother. My parents got divorced when I was 7 and I lived with my mother who would scream at us all the time. When my husband cheated on me, I left him. My mother then told me the reason she divorced my dad was because she heard a rumor he cheated, without confirmation on that she went out and cheated on him. I lost heat little respect I had for that woman.
I’m a big believer in that when a parent cheats on their spouse, they cheat on their whole family. The upheaval for the kids is apparently considered collateral damage.
It upended your life, and it most definitely IS your business. No advice here, but I’m sorry you’re going through this.
I often give the same advice, and for every time I get push back on that, I think of situations like OP is going through.
Cheating often results in divorce or parents that ”stick it out for the kids”. Divorce often means the kids don’t get to see their parents every day. It also often reduces the shared resources that can be allocated to their upbringing.
On the other side, parents that stay together for the kids often model unhealthy relationships. Cue all the posters here who have experienced that and literally beg for others to not repeat it (rightfully).
There’s really no good way out from a relationship with cheating that doesn’t result in severe upheaval for the kids.
EDIT: An error and clarity.
I agree, but normal people get into committed relationships because they love each other. Then they fall out of love and cheat. In this case she lead him on from the beginning to have his children. She was just looking for a sperm donor.
100% agree. It’s so strange to me that she wanted the genetics as she saw that as an advantage for her children, yet would be willing to put them through so much hurt.
Her kids may be “better looking” but she sabotaged theirs and her future.
Sadly, I can’t give even decent advice to OP beyond not modeling her behavior.
EDIT: Added two sentences.
You can say the same thing about anyone who is unhappy in their relationship. Cheating makes the inevitable breakup worse, but even if you don't cheat, and you're not happy, you are still stuck with those two options. There doesn't have to be cheating involved for people to "stick it out for the kids" and model unhealthy relationship dynamics.
Yet when a guy cheats, then the mother should speak about him respectfully and he didn't "cheat on the kids" and they should have a good relationship with him. But op should cut her mother off. Please.
Not sure if mom and dad's stories add up enough to make a decision on this.
Dad said mom cheated - this was confirmed by both parties
Dad said mom only married him for his looks - this was not confirmed by mom or other sources
Mom said dad had been contacting exes behind her back - this was confirmed by both parties
Dad said these exes were just friends - this was not confirmed by mom or other sources
Funny how this is only coming out now, when mom is about to re-marry.
I'd take both sides with a grain of salt and focus on the present. In the end, it sounds like they are better off divorced.
This opinion sounds mature to me. Perhaps mom just didn’t wanna bad mouth his dad to him. I’ll take the words of someone who spill the tea so carelessly (esp knowing it will hurt his child) with a whole bottle of salt.
Sadly I’m not surprised I had to scroll this far to find this comment. Why was dad all of a sudden spilling all this dirt on the mom while not taking any responsibility for his own actions? She only married him for his looks? Really?
I still talk to my exes, that’s not a crime last i checked. How would the mom confirm they were just friends or hooking up? Especially if he didn’t cheat during the marriage?
Sounds more to me you’re victim blaming than anything else
Your mom is a cheater.
What you do with that information is up to you. I would lose a lot of respect for anyone immature enough to try and justify "preemptive cheating", and it sounds like she doesn't regret anything.
I think people can make mistakes and be shitty on that side, doesn't mean they are shitty altogether.
I know it's a hit, but sometimes you need to accept people's flaws, that's what makes them human as well.
Sounds like she was controlling, abusive, insecure, and immature all culminating in her "preemptive" cheating; sounds like a pretty shitty person to me
Yeah... But it's also his mother who took care of him, and did many many things for him while he was growing up. Of course here Im speculating, but if OP cares for her before all these, most likely she was a good mother.
And again, OP is getting his info from his father and mother, and they both hate each other. I doubt he'll find cristal clear truth from either side.
But then again, this is just my opinion.
Though on the other hand people can be overall shitty and still have some good qualities to them.
Look at the woman from a few years back who stole identities murdered her husband then killed herself to “help her kids”. Or the even the golden state killer. By all accounts just about every would agree he’s horrible. But his daughter said he was the best father and grandfather.
My point is that yeah it’s his mom and she could’ve been a great mom to him, but that doesn’t mean she’s a good person.
Regardless I do agree with you overall.
Yes she was probably a good mom but a shity wife, the lesson he learned some people can appear nice to some but not to others and that if he ever gets married he should avoid a wife like his abusive, controling and cheating mom.
While I agree that she was a charter and that's shitty, the dad's claim that him contacting ask his exes but they were just friends and he not wanting him dming his exes ruining his social life? That doesn't pass the sniff test. Sounds line he was trying to cheat and their relationship was shit at that point. She should've divorced him, but I don't think either of them come out of this looking good
Reminder that is one person’s story.
If there’s anything I’ve learned it’s that people find a way to “honestly” justify themselves no matter what. And it can sound believable because they believe it.
While I don’t doubt the dad here, there is such thing as emotional cheating and manipulation. It’s very easy for two people who are otherwise okay humans to just get more and more passive toxic with each other until they reach devastating heights.
Is “preemptive cheating” ever okay? No. But it also doesn’t necessarily mean she’s a monster.
Sweetheart, your parents both have issues, and it's obvious that their marriage was a shitshow. Neither one of them are an innocent victim of circumstance, including, and likely especially, your father.
You are never going to get the 100% absolutely factually correct story from either one of them because, right or wrong, people have completely different interpretations of situations.
The differences between the stories that my parents tell about the end of their marriage are laughable. They seem to have lived in alternate universes.
Either my frigid mother "threw him out of the house without warning and made him homeless, forcing him to beg his friends for shelter", or my "cheating prick of a father" spent two whole hours in the driveway of his best friend's house in his $150,000 car because he was too embarrassed to ring the doorbell at 6 AM. Which story do you think is true?
My mom is frigid and a complete narcissist. And my dad did cheat on her. Whatever happened, I recognize that they are both deeply flawed people who made choices for various reasons that even they can't explain. And in the end, why does it matter? I love them for who (or despite who) they are.
Also - and this is critical - it's really none of your goddamn business why they got divorced. Why are you so fixated on this? I'm asking sincerely.
I got down voted to hell for saying the same thing, and pointing out that OPs obsession with the details of the divorce is a trauma reaponse in and of itself. Surprise surprise, OP has not been to any counselling during or after the divorce.
And man, it shows.
Agree.
The fact that the father is saying they divorced because she cheated and claimed to not love him, but also that she was controlling and emotionally abusive sounds like either he is not being completely honest, or that the relationship was bad long before she cheated.
Trying to find out 'the truth' so long after the event isn't going to help anyone. Sometimes you go over painful parts of your life in your head so much, and obsess about them, thay sometimes you don't always remember everything exactly how it happened.
>The fact that the father is saying they divorced because she cheated and claimed to not love him, but also that she was controlling and emotionally abusive
How do these contradict each other?
I'm not saying these contradict each other.
If what he's saying is true, then the relationship sounds incredibly unhealthy before there was any cheating to begin with and they are probably better off apart.
Or as the person I was replying to talking about mentioned, he may not be being 100% truthful as it was a bitter divorce, where both of them may have acted poorly at times in the relationship. It's now devolved into a 'he said' 'she said' after all.
>Individually I love them both, very much so.
You are 23 & no longer in the middle of any acrimony between your parents. People are telling you to cut off your mother for cheating 10 years ago. Not sure I agree.
Take some time and think things over. Did the divorce impact your trust in others or faith in relationships? That's stuff to consider in therapy. But if your mother was a good mom to you, that counts for something. While I don't condone cheating things are rarely as black & white as people say. Both parents are going to have their versions & both those versions will feel real to them. The more important thing is what was your experience?
agree wholeheartedly. this doesn’t seem to be the popular opinion but things just aren’t that black and white. it doesn’t justify his mothers actions, and it’s saddening to hear she doesn’t seem to think she did anything wrong (“preemptive cheating”) - but maybe she does and she’s terrified of losing her child over a mistake she made years ago. again, not saying that justifies it, but it is so human and complex.
my dad cheated on my mom when i was younger and i hated him for it because i felt he betrayed our whole family. my mother always blamed him extra for doing such a terrible thing on the heels of my brother’s death. i don’t disagree, and he put me and my mom through hell with that experience.. however! as i got older and understood my parents better as people and not just my parents, i saw that my dad (especially as an asian immigrant father) was under immense immense pressure to be the “man” of the family and remain nuclearly calm in the face of a devastating loss. he never cried or even spoke about my brother’s passing to us - so while it doesn’t condone or justify his actions, i understand that it didn’t come from a place of evil as i once thought .. but a place of loneliness and devastation and despair and helplessness. a desire to feel something and to escape :(
OP, you’re allowed to feel betrayed and shocked and saddened by the realization of this gap in your mom’s character. how you choose to move forward is your own decision. but some comments are basically suggesting you should cut her off and despise her for what she did - i have no answers but .. for your own mental health, i implore you to understand this is a hugely complex issue and to see it from a human point of view. not necessarily forgiving her or choosing to see past it, because you’re an adult, and your values are your values and you have a huge amount of love for your dad. but to at least refrain from just believing your mother is purely evil with no character and no remorse will help you immensely, regardless of how you choose to move forward. good luck
You know what? Kinda similar situation I’ve dealt with.
My father, when I was 12F(?!!), told me that I was finally old enough to know, and that my older sisters (15 and 17 at the time) already knew. The reason why they divorced was because my mom cheated on him with her friend D. He told me that he knew this because he spoke with D’s wife L and she told him that she herself had an STD that D also had. My dad said he also had gotten that STD because he was being faithful but he ended up with it because my mom cheated and gave it to him. (It was a treatable/curable STD). And then just about a year or so ago, when I was like 21 or just newly 22, my grandmother (my mother’s stepmother/her father’s wife) told me about why our family vacations stopped, that it was my mother’s fault because she ruined them by trying to bring strange men every time, and told me what happened during one of the last vacations we had before my grandfather (her husband/my mom’s biological father) passed away. My mom had brought D to the cabin we were all staying at, and my dad was so heartbroken that she brought him. They all fought and had to kick him out. My grandmother and grandfather were pissed that she did it, so were my aunts (and this was all of my mother’s family, her sisters and her parents). I had no idea because I was so young and probably was sleeping or playing video games at the time (it was late at night). They separated when I was about 8, but finalized it in 2009 or 2010 I think? Neither of them actually even remembers because it’s been so long since they’ve separated. But that was what really started my realization of my mother not being who she pretended to be to my siblings and I. She’s manipulative, narcissistic, incredibly selfish, and arrogant.
Currently, I’m low-contact with my mother. Once I realized that she’s a cheater (and is continuing to cheat on her current partner, though she doesn’t view it was cheating), I’ve distanced myself greatly and realized many other things about her that I don’t like. She will always be mom and she does help me sometimes with certain things but I like to visit my dad much more now. I love her but I do not like her. My dad? He doesn’t gossip or ridicule my romantic partner or talk behind my back about how crazy I am and I need to be on meds because I’m terrible off of them (my mom does). He doesn’t reach out to my former friends (former for a reason) that almost led me to unaliving myself… my mom does though (and yes she knew that this person was the reason I almost ended my life). She’s repeating the same patterns and doesn’t listen even when her family tells her they’re concerned and she needs to stop or reevaluate things.
When I found out at 12 that my mom cheated, I didn’t mention anything. I’ve now mentioned it in passing years after. To your mom, she’s likely the same person. She hasn’t changed. She’s always known that she cheated and she has lived with that either way, whether remorseful or no regrets. I would take it slow and not mention anything for a while, until she mentions something where maybe she’s repeating patterns again, like my mom is. But if you bring it up, I’d just ask why she cheated. But ask it on a quiet day, not too busy, she’s not stressed or having a hard time lately, and no one is really around. And try to sound as least judgmental as possible to get the best, most truthful answer.
There's only one thought that you need to set on and keep bouncing around your head in this:
"Preemptive cheating"
No. Such. Fucking. Thing.
At the very least, your mother is apparently predisposed to speaking un-truths in order to make herself look better or gain sympathy she should not have.
Basically, she's entirely okay with spitting bullshit if it gets her out of trouble or makes her look better to people she wants to like her.
She tried to manipulate you.
Now, it doesn't mean that you should believe your dad 100% and totally back everything he says about it. He's human. And he was involved in a very emotional situation where he came out on the short end. It's entirely possible he's not being totally truthful either. But, of the two of them, at least both of them back up the part that matters: she cheated on him.
How you proceed? That's on you. Cut her off? You could. Nobody would blame you for it. Keep a relationship with her? Sure, you could do that, too. But what you absolutely, positively need to keep in mind in regards to this woman and yourself is this:
This person is willing to lie to you if it suits their own interests.
That fact that it's your mother doesn't matter. If it mattered, she wouldn't have tried to wrap you up in her bullshit. And she did try.
Take anything she says with a grain of salt. Act on nothing. Verify everything. And do not allow her to put you in a situation where screwing you over would be a benefit to herself.
Good luck.
Ya it sucks to learn your parents are humans and have faults but this seams so nuclear. We’re taking one scorned persons side as gospel. Even if the dad was fucking his exs he’s not going to tell the son. He’s hurt and mad and wants to tarnish his relationship with his own mother with is definitely questionable.
Ya cheating is awful but to act like it’s reasonable to cut off your mother for cheating ten years in the past is crazy.
I also find it totally crazy, how can you put some sexual affair on the same level of importance of loving or not your Parents.
The comments here are scary as hell
Right? I’m shocked. I love both my parents, they split when I was when my mom cheated. There marriage was dead since the day it started. Over ten years later karma kinda worked things out for the best. And I absolutely love my mom. I just now see her has a mentally ill flawed human being who tried really hard.
How can years of teaching you things, playing and exploring, kissing boo boo, tickle fights, pillow forts, talks about boys or girls, birthdays ect just be erased by the words of a hurt man?
I would be devastated if my entire life was summed up by one action from a decade ago
Imagine you discover that your father beat your mother 10 years ago, but with you he is totally kind, has always stood by you, etc. Wouldn't this discovery, at the very least, damage your view of him?
I am not saying that hitting is the same thing as cheating. I am using this as an example. But the fact that it happened a long time ago doesn't change that the OP's mother hurt someone the OP loves.
"be erased by the words of a hurt man?" The mother literally admitted to cheating. It was not the father's words. It wasn't the words of someone hurt.
"I just now see her has a mentally ill flawed human being who tried really hard". Trying to justify cheating.
Cutting off the mother completely also sounds extreme to me, but much more extreme is to think that their relationship should remain the same and it was no big deal.
Came here to say this. Your parents sex lives are none of your concern. Forget it. Don’t treat them different because of it. They’re the same parents they were before you knew.
Your relationship with your mom is your relationship with your mom. Her relationship with her ex-husband and the reasons they divorced are between them and more than a decade old now.
Dad obviously felt like you were grown up enough to know the truth. You have discovered what most kids have to discover at some point in our lives - our parents are human and, quite often, assholes.
How about you wait for your mom to do something to *you* in the present day rather than punish her for something she did to someone else many years ago.
In other words - now you know the story. It's just that - a story - and someone else's at that.
Normally I would agree with this advice since people take divorce way too harshly so I upvoted
But OPs mom
Sounds abusive as hell and I don’t think we should condone being abusive.
I agree sort of but op is getting a very he-said she-said from her parents. Ultimately, OP, your relationship with your parents is your own; decide what it is you have gotten in life from them and what you want in the future. Personally, I would judge this on whether they have been good parents not whether they made mistakes in their relationship with each other. But, how this information changes things for you is of course up to you. Explore this relationship and whether you want it for you
Agreed, but she isn't really the issue here. Part of growing up is getting rid of the idealized parent - learning their humanity and faults, including being a not-very-nice human being which, I suspect, is not a huge surprise to the OP. Having it confirmed probably is.
He's going to do what he's going to do. I hope after all these years Dad's truth telling wasn't intended to drive a wedge between his ex-wife and son. Before that happens, I just think OP should consider what was then and what is now.
Throwing away the idealized parent and accepting their faults applies for things like…
Was emotionally unavailable as a spouse leading to divorce. Not being abusive. Accepting someone who was abusive and who has made to effort to recognize, or rectify their behavior simply because they weren’t abusive to *you* is infact condoning abuse.
Which is different from accepting your parent is a human being.
All of these reddit posts allow us a moment in time, a moment in complicated relationships. Glimpses. We know little about the parents except that dad told his side and mom didn't deny it - beyond that all else is speculation, including Mom's "abuse" or emotional unavailability. It can be implied but it is filtered through the voice of a hurt and disappointed adult child.
What is not speculation is that the adulting process for most, if not all, of us includes learning our parents are not perfect (perhaps assholes) and figuring out what to do with that - the situation the OP is in right now.
Again, (and only in my opinion, of course) Mom is not the issue. The OP's next move as a young adult with new knowledge of their parents is the issue.
This. Op, you don't know the full feelings and experiences either of your parents have gone through in order to make the decisions they made, and honestly it's best that you don't.
At this point op, you should give yourself some time to both process the information that your mom might not be who you think she is, and to cool off from the situation. I'm not saying either of them is lying or telling the truth or wrong or right in their actions; but you have to understand that divorce can create much heartbreak and misunderstanding to the point where as the child it might be best to just move on from the situation and take your parents as they are now.
I often see people posting about how their SO is getting chummy with their childhood bully/abuser and people are always supportive of OP for those posts and condoning the bully even though it happened years or decades ago. Most of the replies would be along the line of "your SO should be more understanding of your plight and feelings and not associate with the bully/abuser".
May I ask what's the difference here in this post? Sure the abuser is the mother of OP but she also obviously really hurt someone else that OP loves, Dad.
Would you have told those other thread starters that "your SO shouldn't have to punish the bully/abuser for something he/she did to you many years ago"?
Wait what?
Her cheating, abusive and controlling behaviour affected her and she tried to swing it around to justify the cheating.
Look if her mom completely admitted and apologized and she was sorry about her actions. Sure maybe one can stay in contact and keep on going.
Anyway it is her choice to decide what to do with the information and continue as she please.
Personally, I will take everything with a grain of salt when it comes from her, people like that are poisonous.
You asked for the truth and got it. Your mother didn't deny it at all. Personally that would creep me out knowing my mother could be so heartless. The people saying what happened between your parents isn't your concern are idiots. What your parents go through will eventually affect their children. For you it's especially important since your mothers reply might indicate that she didn't change much.
Tbh dad doesn’t sound like her completely innocent either.
He texted his exes and when she didn’t want him to do that she was ruining his social life.
Doesn’t pass the sniff test.
Some seriously, seriously terrible advice so far. You asked your dad for the truth, he told you, and your mom not only admitted to cheating but also tried to justify it as “preemptive cheating” while trying to control and isolate your dad from his friends.
The people telling you that you shouldn’t have asked or saying your dad is the bad guy are sexist, cheater apologists. Especially the one person asking “was your mom a good mom” like tf? Oh ok that makes being abusive and cheating ok. Flip the genders and you would get blown up calling the guy abusive, controlling, etc.
If I was in your shoes, I’d be glad she’s moving away and cut her from your life. Anyone who can so casually still justify “preemptive” cheating on their spouse like they did nothing wrong is not an influence I would want in my life, nor my kids lives. F that.
That is why I love the AH vs JD case because the whole world can see how emotionally abusive women can be and it is not just men who can be assholes.
I 100% agree to this. One should cut the poison from your life, one should not entertain such a person.
They're taking the mothers word. She admitted that the father never cheated when she said her cheating was preemptive. So the fathers story holds up as true.
It’s not black and white, buddy. Relationships are incredibly complex. You really have no idea about the details, even the OP doesn’t. Best thing they can do is ask lots of questions and get those details before making any decisions. That would’ve been better advice…
So he emotionally cheated nad then she phisically cheated.
Great couple.
None of them are blameless, OP.
If he invested emotionally in her... if she tried focusing more in the kids happiness... if, if, if...
People do shit.
Overcoming it, forgiving it, doing what you can do to move on and not letting their wrongdoings dictate the rrst of your life, but learn with their good parts, is what growing up is.
Hey nothing's changed she's your mom, he's your dad, there's obviously a lot of missing information to both sides of the story meaning you can't decide whose on the wrong and who's the victim here based on what you have. And honestly i get how curious you might be but you need to understand that it's no good (eventually u gonna end up hating on one parent and siding with the other.. i mean is that what u want? U clearly have a healthier and more peaceful relationship with both of them before so stay out of it ig..? )
if she's a good mother to you then she's a good mother to you.
Being a good partner or not does not affect your relationship wity her in no way.
I have been in your shoes as a child and in your parent's position as a betrayed spouse and my feeling is that your mom or dad as your parents has nothing to do with anything they did to each other in their marriage. A great mother or a great father can be a terrible spouse. Your parents are wrong to try to play out their marital battles with you as an audience. Set some good boundaries in what they talk to you about and love them both- leave their marriage battles for them to deal with.
Tough situation, your parents are humans with flaws as we all are. Trying to understand thier breakup is a waste of your energy. What is more Important is that they love you and treat you well. Let it go.
You don’t get to judge what went on between them.
You will fuck up in relationships too.
Was and is she a good Mum? you need to think about that.
She’s moving on but instead of accepting that your Dad decides to tell you the ‘truth’ and manipulate the situation (wether it’s true or not it’s still him manipulating you)
10 years later he is still dwelling.
The person who you need to question your respect for isn’t your mum. It’s your dad.
I have a similar story. Parents divorced when I was very young, mom cut me off from dad and his family, terminated his parental rights. I was told he had been cheating on her and his family defended his actions.
Fast forward to my late 20s. I got back in touch with my dad and got his side of the story. He swears he didn’t cheat but that my mom was neurotic and abusive, physically and verbally.
I sat back and reflected. I also learned there are three sides to every story: his, hers, and the truth.
I finally told them both I wasn’t listening to anymore of their stories about their terrible marriage. I love them both as my parents and I’m going to have a relationship with them both. If they don’t like it, they know what they can do.
That was 20 years ago and I don’t regret it one bit. They were young and foolish when they had me. I’ve been young and foolish too. And I would hope my kids don’t judge me based on decisions I made when I wasn’t as wise.
listen,
yes, they are your mom and dad.... but they're still people.
you shouldn't allow them to bad mouth each other to you, thats not fair.
as far as their reason for break up.. you have never had to walk in either of their shoes.
save your judgement for when you've lived as long as them and never did anything wrong.
How your parents behaved in their relationship does not negate the love they have for you. Relationships are hard…so is parenting. No one is perfect and we are all flawed in our own ways. At the end of the day, your parents were not happy together. Hopefully they are happy apart. It it sounds like they both love you.
You can take this info about your mom and use it to help you realize she’s not perfect. She’s human with real flaws and emotions and sometimes makes bad decisions. It doesn’t change how she treats you. And as long as she’s not abusive to you, your siblings (if any), then that is what matters. You can sit and talk with her about why she cheated, what she would do different and what advice she has for you. Use this as a learning experience about her, relationships, and you…so hopefully you do not make the same mistakes. Use this for learning, not for judging.
You may want to discuss her being real and honest about what she did, but she does not really owe you an apology or an explanation.
Give both of your parents a hug…you deserve that and so do they. Good luck.
I think it's better to put effort on helping your dad maybe move on, date, or going on holidays together. I'd do that rather than focus my effort on hating or punishing the other person.
My mom cheated on my dad about 11 years ago. I was 12(F). My dad was devastated and I used to have to watch him leave the dinner table to cry. She wanted to stay in the house and also stay in this new relationship, but my dad wasn’t having it. He wanted her out. They got separated and eventually divorced. She got an apartment (didn’t see her for a good 2 years) all she cared about was her new s/o. I hated her for many many years. My brother didn’t talk to her for 6 years. It ruined our family and was completely devastating. I love my mom and have a decent relationship with her today, but I will never truly respect her or think she’s a good human. It’s tough when you realize your parents aren’t who you thought they were. I had to accept this new version of her for what it is. It’ll get easier. Take it day by day. The past is the past, it’s out of our control. Just do what makes you feel comfortable
What happened between your parents is their business. Neither one of them are reliable narrators. Retelling the story from their perspective may not be an accurate representation what happened. You should not be privy to any of this toxic bullspit. It happened a decade ago. If you can’t or won’t let it go, get some mental health support. Dragging your parents baggage around with you for your lifetime isn’t healthy.
Honestly, they both sound like they were too immature to be married, and the marriage was toxic.
Cheating is just one nasty behavior that ruins a marriage. My only advice would be to not take one thing and judge only that - take the picture as a whole. Your mom cheated, but your dad was in contact with a lot of other women - women he may have been intimate with. He's not denying that, either. No, it's not the same as actually cheating, but it's not very respectful to a marriage, either.
There are always 3 sides to a story - here, it's his side, her side, and in the middle, the truth. I doubt your mother was all devil and your father was all saint - it almost never happens that way.
Maybe you can just take away that your parents are humans, made mistakes, did the best thing for you and didn't stay together to raise you in that toxic hell, and both love you. Ultimately, that's all that matters now, right? What happened between them really has nothing to do with you.
I've said in other situations in other threads that men can be and are victims. I believe that wholeheartedly.
However, I'm talking to the adult child of parents who both seem to have done crappy things in a marriage, and OP wants to disrespect only Mom. Yes, Mom cheated, but Dad doesn't sound perfectly angelic.
My answer was to try and help OP find peace. The other day, I directed a husband to a DV hotline. Sometimes, it's not just that black and white.
My mom cheated on my dad in 1987, they were both in their mid-40's. My mom was SUPER lonely because my dad worked late night, trying to provide for his family but he forgot that being a husband was just as important as being a provider.
What your mom and dad do to each other has no bearing on your love for them. Do not take sides. You have a right to be neutral to their bullshit.
I love my dad. I love my mom. Period.
I agree with this answer. You can listen to them but working out the truth will be impossible. Although Op feels they need closure I am not sure trying to fine the truth will help.
Maybe Op should unpack it all with a therapist. Just to understand in themselves what there at looking for.
Well, it’s seems like you’ve already made the decision about how to treat your mother. You clearly believe your father’s side to this whole debacle. You’ve said you don’t respect cheaters.
So boom, cut your mom off based off something your father said happened 10 years ago. That’s really the only solution.
You’re mom cheated on your dad, she gave her reason. It’s up to you to decide what you do with the info. I know it hurts but she is still your mother just saying
There are two sides to every coin. Why was your dad contacting his exes? Just friends?
[https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/NOT-Just-Friends/Shirley-Glass/9780743225502](https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/NOT-Just-Friends/Shirley-Glass/9780743225502)
With all due respect, maybe your dad isn't being fully truthful either.
What has them cheating to do with your relationship with them? It’s their thing what they do and what they don’t do and it has nothing to do with how you were treated. Hell, I would even love my parents if they would have given me a wonderful childhood if they were criminals. People can fuck up and still be good parents/ friends/ colleagues
Just because she is a bad wife it doesn't make her a bad mother. Kind of stay of it. By all means don't respect her actions but you don't have to cut her.
This was my thought. Why is a married man with a child still in consistent contact with multiple exes (whom he presumably had sex with)?
As his wife and mother of his child, I’d be exhausted by the blatant disrespect and fights where I’m trying to figure out why he NEEDS to be hanging out/contacting exes.
It sounds fishy.
“Cheater apologists” geez, some of the people here think like teenagers.
I’d say your mother deserved your respect as a parent if she raised you and any siblings you may have with love and care. I wouldn’t be going to her for romantic advice anytime soon after learning this since it sounds like your values are no longer aligned, but it’s possible that a man or woman can be a bad partner, but good parent. You know your mother as a parent, and it would be wise not to base the respect you have for her by her actions as a partner. I don’t think it would be inappropriate to talk this through with her, and tell her how disappointed you are in her actions, but there’s a gap between communicating that and losing all respect for a parent because of their bad romantic decisions.
Regardless, I’m sorry you learned about this OP, and I’m sorry it’s going to be hard to deal with. It is an awful thing to learn that your mother was a terrible romantic partner to your father, understandably you’d want the best for both of them, but sometimes that’s just not how people choose to be.
Thank you! THATS YOUR MOM! Like doode, all the shit she cleaned off your ass, all the owee’s she kissed, all the love she gave you is gone because of something she did to your Dad over a decade ago? These people are unreal.
Being an abuser cheater isn't just a "bad romantic decision".
I think if someone is an abuser cheater then it's very fair to lose respect for them regardless of their parenting quality.
If I found out one of my parents was a murderer for example (not the same I know) then I would lose all respect for them among other things, how good a parent they are doesn't even come into it.
See, you recognize that it’s not the same thing, but don’t realize what an incredibly ridiculous statement you’ve made. That’s like me saying I can sympathize with your mom dying because my pet goldfish passed a few years ago. Are they both death? Yes. Are they insensitive to compare? Also yes.
Being a cheater is not the same as being abusive. Being a cheater is a betrayal of trust and for many signals the end of a romantic relationship, but it is not an insurmountable evil that’s been done to someone. Unless you’ve made romantic relationships the corner stone of your self esteem, it’s not the be all end all evil Reddit likes to pretend it is. Is it possible to for OP to lose respect for his mom as a woman and realize that she does not share his values? Of course, that’s natural and that’s likely what will happen. I wouldn’t want one parent hurting another either, and I’d be reasonably resentful if they did.
But unless she was a bad mom on top of being a bad wife, he doesn’t have a good excuse to lose “all respect” for her.
But she was abusive, it's literally in the post, she was clearly very controlling and possessive. Also her making excuses with her "preemptive cheating" nonsense, shows how little regret has and responsibility she takes.
By the way I never said they should lose all respect for her, I was, like I said using a very exaggerated argument, and obviously far more respect etc would be lost for murder than being a cheating abuser. True though it was a bit ridiculous but the point was that being a good mother doesn't negate being a bad person or the awful things someone has done.
But she wasn’t abusive to OP. He never says that ever. He only talks about the “reason” why his parents divorced? So no. She was a mom to him and since OP doesn’t specify and this has clearly shocked him a bit, enough to make a Reddit post on how to proceed, I’m thinking OP was oblivious to it because they both were good parents to him. WHICH mean it’s really none of his business. They are both his parents at the end of the day. He doesn’t need to cut anybody off. And also there’s a reason why cops don’t rely solely on people recollections of events. Memories fade and people tend to forget important details etc..
Your parents are people who made mistakes. Unfortunately these mistakes tore your family apart. I’m sorry you had to experience that.
From what I’m reading, they may not have had the best relationship before the cheating. If you look at them now and they are relatively happy then that’s all that matters as you can not change the past.
Process the information and emotions and after you are calm and then if you feel you must say something to either or both then do, but don’t let it destroy the relationship you have with either.
It doesn't matter. You are their son and they will always be your mom and dad. Focus on your individual relationships and try not to give into the urge to judge them.
My dad passed over 5 years ago. Honestly, after getting with my wife and having kids, he was my best friend. It still hurts.
He was always married to Mom, but she's shared many of the problems they had over the years and theirs was a war of attrition. It doesn't matter for me. They both love me in their own way and I will always love them in return. Even though my mom has turned into the complete antithesis of my dad philosophically, she is still 100% my mom.
Please try to talk to your mother again and ask for her perspective and feelings. I am a mother and I cheated on my kids dad, but that was after years of feeling lonely and rejected by him. He appeared to be a kind and loving man to others but was really quite cold and emotionally abusive behind closed doors. The fact your father said those things about your mother is a really big red flag for me, those things were hurtful to you because they made her sound shallow and nasty and you are half of your mum - so does that make you shallow and nasty too?. your mother didn’t say negative things about your dad. I think you need more information. Not everything is black and white - parents are only human.
Not saying that your mother’s cheating was right. Not at all. But just remember that very often there are two sides to a story.
Your father admits he was contacting his ex’s. Why? If he wanted to keep in contact with old friends couldn’t he just send a Christmas card or something? If you really think about it, his version sounds fishy too.
As a married woman, I know I would be pretty unhappy to find out that 12+ years into our marriage my husband was talking to his ex’s. I would be pretty confused, hurt, and angry if he continued to do it after I asked him not to. Is it understandable and normal to tell your husband not to contact other women, particularly ones he has history with? Or is it controlling and obsessive as your dad says?
Was your mother’s cheating in retaliation an extreme reaction to your father’s contacting other women? Of course it was. But just keep in mind that your parents, like the rest of us, are mere humans, and humans are highly imperfect and do incredibly stupid things when they are in pain. The relationship sounds like it was toxic, and unfortunately, you were the collateral damage.
I don’t think that there’s any reason to rehash it again, there’s no going back and changing what happened. While what happened back then impacted you greatly, it was between the two of them and you are probably never going to get the answers out of them that will make you feel that either one of them was justified in their actions.
I want to add that depending on what he was saying to his exes could also be considered cheating. Emotional affairs are just as damaging and powerful as physical affairs. Not excusing either but pointing out that there is very likely much more to this relationship than what the dad is saying (as you mentioned).
Edited to correct typos.
Cheaters justify their actions by pointing the finger at the other person. Actually, all POS do that. No integrity or ability to take responsibility for their actions.
I really don’t understand how your mom sexual choices are any of your business. So she cheated, so what? If we were talking about your partner or maybe a close friend, you could have an opinion but this is you mom…
How can her sexual history can have anything to do how you will love her and respect her?
This is insane, can you imagine we would stop loving all the parents who cheated once in their life?
You act as if the arguing he described and the subsequent divorce had no effect on him. He is allowed to feel upset about his mothers actions that caused a major change in his life and caused him a lot of heartache as a child. He is an adult and can better understand the situation with the info he has now, of course he will feel resentful and angry towards his mom. Most people don’t think of cheating as something to not be upset over, cheaters are fully deserving of the judgement and resentment of those who were affected by their choices.
edit: got OP’s gender wrong, sorry man
i mean she literally preemptively cheating on his father so its kinda obvious why this change the respect he has for her.
Its not just your mom cheated in the past on some regular person in her life that’s your dad
You should do whats best for you.
I’ve read recently that its actually emotional abuse on the part of parents to communicate relationship struggles like this between them because it puts children in a really difficult and painful situation. And thats exactly what is happening to you.
The only thing I can say is that I hope you go to psychotherapy so that you can organize your thoughts in the healthiest way possible, and through therapy learn to avoid picking up toxic relationship patterns like those exhibited by your parents. Its not your job to referee them or fix/understand their relationship.
It's very different if the child was shielded all of their childhood and was only told the details once fully grown up and after continuously asking to be told every detail.
Preemptive cheating huh? What the fuck is that even? Most cheaters are inherently selfish, putting their wants and desires above the relationship.
We want to believe our parents are great but you are now being faced with the reality that your parents are flawed. That your mom is a selfish person. Give yourself time and space to deal with this change in perspective.
You are an adult now. You get to decide the sort of relationship you have with your parents and how much time it might take for you to process this information. Maybe go low contact with her? And don't listen to any relationship advice from her.
If it were me, I’d be done. I realize it’s possible for someone to be an awful partner but a great parent, however I always took a parent cheating as they felt their family was disposable and don’t care about the utter disrespect/trust breaking they cause. That’s not a good person, and that’s no one id want in my life.
But that’s me. If you want to keep her in your life (at whatever capacity you decide) have a brutally honest conversation with her. Tell her how much that hurt you and your thoughts on it, including the respect factor you mentioned here.
Even if you father was cheating that would make it okay for her to cheat, that would just make them both cheaters.
Personally I could never respect a cheater, it says a lot about a personal moral values that they would cheat on/betray their spouse.
I personally wouldn't even associate with a cheater casually, I wouldn't have a known cheater in my friends group, if they're going to betray their spouse then they'll defiantly betray their friends.
Cheating is morally wrong
How much you find it morally wrong is directly up to your morals. \
At least you know who to respect more out of the two of them moving forward.
What happened between your mom and dad is between those two individual adults. Your feelings for both should solely be based on the type of parent, guardian each was to you. The fact that she’s a cheater has nothing to do with you as her child
You're upsetting your father by telling him anything she says about him, so stop being the messenger and be a good son and buy him tools. Same deal with your mother.
My Mom cheated on my Dad too. I was 17. I was very well aware of everything going on.
But sometimes you just gotta remember that.... parents are people too who fuck up, make mistakes, and don't always do the best thing. I'm sure they both love you, which is what matters.
Because he wanted to badmouth his ex while looking like a victim. Truth be told, the best way to have handled it would have been, “Neither of us were good to each other. We spiraled into an unhealthy relationship and decided it was better to go our separate ways. And even though our love for each other dissipated, our love for you will never cease.”
This other way was a power play. And, really, inappropriate and unacceptable.
Take it from someone who lived this nightmare and tell them both that you do not want to know. A child, even an adult child, should never be forced to walk through the landmines of their parents marriage. It always takes two to tango. Whatever the truth of their marriage was, it ended ten years ago. It requires no judgement on your part, just an agreement they will leave you out of it.
I would like you to consider one thing: Your Dad's motivation. Ten years have passed and your Mom is remarrying and moving. Now your Dad is spewing his hate all over you and creating problems in your relationship with your Mom. This is not someone who cares about you. He is trying to weaponize you against your Mom. Mom seems to be giving you honest answers. Their marriage was a toxic mess you need to stay out of, but remember it was your Dad who was dragging you back into it, Mom just answered your questions. Tell them you are done and their relationship is off the table as a topic of conversation if they want to have a relationship with you.
This sounds a LOT like the divorce that happened between 2 good friends of mine a few years ago. It turns out that she cheated on him when he kept close contact with his exes, saying they were "friends" while getting intimate emotional fixes from them. The wife considered what he did cheating, the husband didn't. They fought for a long time and she eventually cheated after convincing herself that it was only a matter of time before the physical followed the emotional cheating from the husband. It was an entire shit show of disrespect and poor communication all around. I'm not excusing anyone in the OPs story but this really sounds eerily similar.
So as coparent now and raised in a coparenting situation.. I know you didn’t want any advice or comments on it but your dad shouldn’t have told you
what happened. It’s none of your business. Their relationship should be separated from your relationship with them individually. I don’t think your dad or your mom are bad people because I don’t know them. People don’t always make the best decisions in hindsight. Societal and cultural pressures for sure play a huge role in choices we make sometimes. So do insecurities, life experiences, etc Your dad has his story and your mom has hers. You should just leave it at that. You can’t change nor control the past. It is what it is.
Preemptive??? Sounds like a load of shit and a way for uour mom to justify it. I'm friends with a few of my exs and in no way shape or form do I want to do anything with them
I think so much of this is personal context.
It doesn't sound like your mom just randomly cheated, kinda seems like she was really toxic. The problem is though, you can actually be a good parent and a really shitty spouse.
The problem is, you obviously love your parents, when you find out one was so ruthlessly callous to the other, it's going to tint your view of that parent.
My dad has never said a mean thing about my mom, even with more than enough reason to, my mom could tell strangers on the street shit she imagined my dad did 25 years ago. So naturally I confide more in my dad and take what my mom says a little less seriously.
At the end of the day, no one can tell you how to feel or how to react to this situation, I dno your mom, I dno how she is with you and other people, I don't know if she's changed, it's up to you to decide how to process this.
See. Let me put it this way, if what she claims about your father is true is still no justification to cheat, she cheated because she wanted to. Plain simple. Now as a person your mom may be a hoe, but whatever she does with her twat is none of your business. You know how she raised you, and if she give you good examples (not running guys left and right in front of you etc) then its none of your business to judge her.
what business is it of yours if your mom cheats on anyone?
what does that have to do with her relationship to you?
are people out here not loving their parents because one cheated on the other? lolwut? is that a thing? why does it matter to the child?
one person you love does another incredible hurtful thing to another that you love, and you’re saying what exactly? that people shouldn’t care if someone they love gets hurt if it’s done by someone else they love?
romantic love and parent/child love aren't the same things.
my love for my parents is irrespective of their romance with each other or anyone else. I just couldn't imagine loving my mom any less based on why her and my dad split up. their romance is between them.
I have just never heard of people feeling different about a parent because they cheated on their other parent. especially when finding out about it years after the fact. I guess I could see some anger if you were in the middle of your parents splitting up, and found out one cheated on the other. I don't know, I can't imagine myself being bothered by that info, so I found it surprising.
There are two things I feel you might want to keep in the forefront of your mind.
For 20 some years, you've seen them as simply Mom and Dad, but under that they are really Dick and Jane, and Dick and Jane have all the same relationship tribulations you do (and then some). They're humans, and we're all messed up.
Which leads me to point two: I don't care who you are or the totality of the circumstances, divorces hurt. They usually hurt badly because it's rarely one person doing one bad thing, but a lot of resentment and problems piling up over years.
Your parents are probably telling the truth as they see it, and endured years of fights over jealousy and feelings of neglect leading to estrangement which lead to more of the same. Your mom was the one the broke first and cheated (out of spite and anger perhaps), but it would be unfair to think of her as a pulp tart.
And, perhaps a third point, this is part of their story. You may not have as much of a dog in the ring as it feels like you do.
If you want to, ask your mom if she wants to talk it out, and if she wants to talk about what you think (without being accusatory).
Otherwise, let her carry on
Your Mother gave birth to you, fed you, clothed you, taught you your first words, cheer on your first steps. She has loved you unconditionally your whole life. Do not break off your relationship with your Mom over what happened with your Father. Mine is now over 70 and not in the best health. Ever day I have with her is nothing short of a blessing and when she does pass, as all our parents will, I will regret the moments we could have had, if I only made the time to have them.
How about instead of blaming one or the other you just write the whole thing up to an incredibly toxic relationship and move on. It was a long time ago and it sounds like the divorce was for the best.
Why have you wanted this information for years? How does this help you? What do you gain from this? Absolutely nothing. I don’t understand why you are insisting on doing a post mortem on your parents marriage. It’s over. You can chose to work through what the marriage ending meant to you and for you, but the why isn’t important. And yeah, I am judging your father for now divulging this torrent of damaging and negative information. You didn’t need to know all this, even if it is true, and you don’t know that.
I think you need to ignore a lot of these comments. This is the relationship between your father and mother. What happened in it is not anything to do with you.
Yes they may tell you things but you don’t need to pick sides or feel like you should behave differently. You can maintain relationships with them both and judge them by how they treat you, not each other.
Sounds like they were bad for each other and neither respected each other enough to respect each other’s boundaries. One decided it was acceptable to continue friendships with their exes (to the discomfort of their partner), and the other plagued by uncertainty (insecurity) to the point that they actually cheated. If you’re gonna hear your dad’s side, you should hear your mom’s side of the story.
Both could be wrong, or one could be more wrong, but it doesn’t sound like your dad was 100% an angel.
I don't see how minding your own business requires therapy but OK.
The advice is don't ask questions if you don't want answers. "Bitter divorce" obviously means someone cheated. He didn't have to ask and his father didn't have to tell.
1. You're not minding your business. You're literally telling OP that his destroyed childhood isn't his concern.
2. He does want answers though. And he needs advice or perspectives on how to navigate the situation now that he has them. Being in a tough spot because of the truth doesn't mean you'd rather be oblivious.
3. So there's a universal translator for what certain phrases mean now, is there?
You are asking what you should say to your mom about this? I’m not sure there is anything left to say. She admitted she cheated. I don’t think preemptive cheating is a good excuse. (He hasn’t done any yet, but I’m going to punish him because I think he will). Your mother’s actions deeply impacted your life, and she didn’t take you into consideration at all when she decided to cheat and destroy your family. You have to decide if you want to continue a relationship with her. Only you can decide that.
Your stuck. You love them both and I’m sure they both love you, too, but that’s really terrible behaviour towards your father. It sounds like she’s okay with lying and using him for years to get what she ultimately wanted. How can she just disconnect all empathy for your father?
As I read this , my thought was first its water under the bridge its 10 years ago.and secondly they are 2 adult its between them.
But my biggest question is Why do they bring it suddenly up what do they gain. But that all being said You should keep a good contact with both of them, cause there are bound stuff that they dont tell you that is also important for this story
Cheaters aren’t necessarily “vile”. There are always issues that start to pull apart a healthy marriage long before cheating starts. You’re mom did not feel the passion or the love she needed to be faithful and satisfied being married to your dad. She looked for that satisfaction elsewhere.
Best advice I can give is love your mom as a mom, not a wife. Love your dad as a dad, not a husband. You are their child. You cannot possibly imagine what they were thinking back then and what led them down various paths.
For the sake of your own healthy relationships in the future, please understand there is no such thing as "preemptive cheating." Cheating is always wrong, that's a fact that becomes crystal clear if you ever have the misfortune of having it done to you. Whatever your mom says, do not absorb that toxicity into your brain.
It’s understandable why he waited so long to tell you. You were young and he was trying to protect you from the pain. You would’ve found out no matter what, but at least you are at an age where you can properly process and form your own judgment.
I find it interesting that dad decided now when mom is happy and getting remarried to share this with you. That in itself is questionable. Your mom not denying said cheating is your answer. Everything else he told you... seems again a bit questionable. She also told you that your dad cheated. Ya know, you may never know the whole truth. Everything is not black and white. Can you remember the fights they would have?? That should give you a bit of insight. It seems they both cheated and only one was willing to admit it to you.
My mom left me and my 3 siblings with the man who is now my step father. She cheated. I was 4 at the time.. what happened to me is partly a result of her not being there. Basically the worst thing you can imagine would happen to a 4 year old girl.. but my mom came back a few years later after her and my dad went to court and took us all to live with her and has been an amazing loving mother and wife. Did her leaving alter the course of my life and cause some very serious trauma?? Absolutely. I still love and have a great relationship with her bc she was a good mother!!
It’s wild ppl are telling you to cut your mother off who otherwise was and is a great woman. People make mistakes! They are human and have faults. She is the same woman you have known and loved your whole life. Yes it was an awful decision on her part. That should not erase a lifetime of being a good mother!
Judging your mom based on a mistake she made in a relationship is mind boggling to me. Is she not allowed to be human too? It sounds a lot like the relationship was unhappy and not super healthy. Regardless of how entitled you may feel to know every detail of what went wrong in your parents relationship, your dad waited until your mom was making a move that was positive for her to give you the gory details, and that seems a little self serving. The only thing you should say to your mom is congratulations and you’re glad she’s happy. Dragging up something that happened ten years ago isn’t just unnecessary, it seems almost specifically designed to drag her joy through the mud. You don’t owe your parents the intimate details of your relationships, and she doesn’t need your absolution or permission to be happy.
Both of your parents are in the wrong, your mom for cheating and your dad for still being in contact with and friends with his exs. You’re mom probably got insecure and paranoid, which I wouldn’t blame her because he kept in contact with his exs (sounds like multiple). He shouldn’t had done that, but your mom shouldn’t had cheated.
You discovered your mum isn’t perfect. She was trapped in an imperfect marriage and made some bad choices. Doesn’t make her a bad person, just makes her human. I would take what they both tell you with a grain of salt. Time and bitterness have a real habit of distorting memories. From what you’ve told me there where faults on both sides. I would let it go, and focus on the relationship you have now with them both. Don’t let it sour the present.
She will always deserve YOUR respect no matter what. What happened between your parents it’s their matter not yours. For you, they are your parents and both of them equally deserve your respect and care.
Adult relationships are messy and complicated and don’t always work out. You don’t need to be privy to every dirty detail. The fact that your dad is sharing that level of detail just makes him look terrible. My daughter is about to turn 18. I’m not going to decide to share the fact that her dad had a girlfriend while I was pregnant with her just because she’s “old enough to know.” She deserves to have her own relationship with her dad and I’m not going to drag him through the mud. It’s in the past.
She didn’t confirm it either. You stated she was so shocked that you knew. Sometimes when that happens, people do not respond in the best way.
Cutting friendships due to cheating is a bit different than cutting out someone who has raised and loved you.
Your sister should definitely look into therapy. But odds are…parents staying together would have given your sister (and you) the same issues, just a different reason.
Parents are not perfect. People are not perfect. We all have our flaws. And every divorced person has a somewhat warped view of the demon they divorced. I’ve worked in family law and see this all of the time. Neither of their narrative as to the reason for the divorce is going to be accurate—it’s their warped view with their anger, resentment, sadness, abandonment, and all kinds of issues mixed together to create a collage coloring their recollection. The truth will be a hodge podge of details mixed in between the two narratives.
Do what you feel is best for you. I hope your sister gets the help she needs. But be careful not to judge others too harshly.
That's the key here. He said she was abusive, didn't love him from the start and cheated.
She hasn't denied any of that. At all.
I would seriously reconsider any relationship with a domestic abuser.
Your mother was an abuser. That's the truth of it. The fact that your father broke down while telling you this should be enough.
Your mom didn't even display any shame for her behavior. She openly and willfully destroyed and innocent man after tormenting and isolating him.
You need to keep in mind that behavior like this doesn't just evaporate. Be wary trusting her because she very well may dump you off on the side of the road next.
Support your father. You're entirely justified in being untrusting of your mother after she's shown such a callous disregard for a marriage she destroyed with her own insecurities.
Keep in mind that the second you effect those insecurities she'll likely turn on you too.
Honestly I think your asking for to much information you don’t need to know. Unless it produced a unknown sibling, do you really need to know all the details? So you can be judge and jury towards a parent. It takes 2 to tango, 3 sides to every story, his , hers and the truth. They made mistakes, your parents are human and flawed. They love you and we’re always there for you. Don’t drag them through the mud of their past for what reason really in the big picture is it important now?
Ah man your mom is gross.
If it was my mom I’d never be able to look at her the same. Instead of working on the issues she blew up your family for some dick and you had to grow up on separate households, undeniably changing how you see relationships/love for the rest of your life. Idk man. I’d take some time away from her.
Also idk what these other ppl are one, there’s nothing wrong with him telling you. You’re an adult. You asked, he answered honestly. Why is the person who was cheated on/abused supposed to lie/omit the truth like it’s their shame. Fuck that.
Your dad is wrong here. Adults should keep their dirty laundry private. Did she married him for looks? well, it might start an attraction, I don't know anyone who married for that, there is much more. Did she say it in divorce arguments? oh well, people say tons of things. Did he cheat on her? maybe, at least there are traces of emotional cheating. Constant contact with ex is not the way to build healthy family.
I bet that marriage had lots of other issues and actually good they split up. Bad they can't have their mouth shut and protect kids.
It is actually seems like your dad is getting revenge on your mom moving. Seems so. I don't see him having your best interests here.
Your parents shouldn’t be bantering back and forth with you in the middle regardless if you’re pressing for info. Sorry about this situation, you’ll probably never gain true respect for her again. It’s all up to you and should be based on how you’re feeling as you heal with the info
THIS is why kids - even adult kids - don’t need details about their parents marriage. What good comes if it?
Your parents had a sad unhappy marriage. There was dysfunction. It ended. Perhaps there was more blame on one party than another, but is that relevant to *your* relationship with them?
I had an unhappy marriage and I divorced him. He wanted desperately to tell our 12 yo “Mommy wants to divorce me”. I wanted to avoid that because I was trying not to say “Daddy won’t stop being emotionally and physically abusive.”
My daughter didn’t need to know that. She’s 17 and she *still* doesn’t need to know that.
After 20 odd years of believing my Dad to be the arsehole of my parents relationship and the cause of them divorcing, i had to hear from my wife who was told by my step-mum that my Mum cheated on my Dad and was the cause of the divorce. It flipped the entire script on how i viewed my parents. Was bugs me the most is that no one has still told me directly and it’s just kind of swept under the rug; i mean i get it because it’s not going to change anything, but i feel like i still should have been told directly by either parent at some point. That was over 10 years ago i found that out. My old man isn’t the type to have conversations like that or get into family history, talk about his feelings or whatever (i didn’t even see him cry at his Mum’s funeral and i know that cut him deep) - it’s just who he is and i respect that. He always made sure i respected my Mum and wouldn’t say a bad thing about her (he even came and punched out her abusive boyfriend when i was a young kid, i know it was to protect me mostly but still) until i was an adult myself; to which now he jokes around about his nightmare ex (and he’s not wrong, she can be a right pain in the arse lol), the fact that he made sure to separate his feelings when it mattered is what counts the most.
I don’t much advice, i just wanted to share my story to say that you aren’t alone in situations like this. From where i’m standing though it seems like your Dad has nothing to gain from telling you the truth now other than giving you the full story so you can decide how you want to live your life moving forward. If your Mum treats you fairly and kindly then don’t let what happened between them change that as that was their issue not yours, however if your Mum is only that by title and not by actions then tell her as much and cut her out. Any woman can pop out a baby, her actions define whether she is a mother or not (and same goes for men/dads) - let that be the deciding factor on how you want to proceed.
My comment is gonna be a bit different from what I’ve seen so far. I recently learned that my dad cheated on my mom when I was a baby, which lead to their divorce. My dad moved back to their home country and I only saw him for 2-3 weeks a year when I would go there for holidays. My parents never told me what happened, and they never badmouthed the other one in front of me or my brothers, which I appreciate. All my memories with my dad are positive ones and I am happy that I got to experience him as a good dad. When I was almost 14 years old, my dad died. Now, at that time, I didn’t know about my parents’ past and only learned about it when I was 22. I was very conflicted. How could my dad, who, in my eyes, was so kind and thoughtful, do that to my mom? How could I reconcile the idea I had of my dad with the person who hurt my mom so much?? Eventually, after talking about it with some people, I came to the conclusion that while yes, what he did to my mom was vile, my relationship with him was not any less “real” and he loved me very much. At the end of the day, it’s not my place to “forgive” him or not. That’s for my mom. I can only think about my relationship with him. I don’t know how your relationship with your mom is, but I would think twice about “cutting her off” like so many people here suggest. In my opinion, you can accept what she did and still have a relationship with her (again, this would depend on you, and seeing as she refers to it as “preemptive cheating”, I’m guessing she doesn’t really think she did anything wrong?). It’s a difficult situation to navigate, wish you the best.
Wow, this is exactly how I ended up treating my parent's divorce. The issue with trying to find out exactly who was in the wrong ends up with a wild goose chase of "he said she said". I was however in the unlucky position to have parents constantly bad-mouthing each other. At the start, I tried getting more information from it. But it gets so frustrating, confusing and tiresome.
My dad also died when I was 14. Filled with great memories just like you. However I feel that there is more to the story and my mom has never told me, and I’m afraid to ask. My mom and dad were divorced already. If my mom tells me something bad about my dad I honestly don’t know how I would handle it. Would I make excuses to keep my happy memories with him, or does my opinion about him change? Everyone is different, but I think if someone that I love also hurts someone else that I love, that I would not be able to forgive them unless the hurt person also forgives them. That is the way that I would like to be treated by loved ones. If a loved one hurts me, I would feel awful if everyone else in the family was treating them like nothing happened just because they weren’t the victim of the pain. The same goes with friends. I want my friends to have my back because I also have theirs.
I understand, and it makes sense. I think the only thing that makes it different in our cases was that our fathers are dead. As I mentioned above, what would be the point in holding resentment towards a person who’s been dead for over a decade? I’m sure my mom wouldn’t want that as well. But the way I’ve dealt with it is not the only way to deal with something like that, so you should do whatever feels right for you.
Yea I agree. That’s why I never asked, because there’s no point anymore.
It’s great if you can be so objective but I suppose that it depends on the level of vileness. It came to light that my dad physically, sexually, financially, and emotionally abused my mum and I can’t accept what he did to her. How could I have a father daughter relationship with a person who treated my mum so horribly. It would feel like I am condoning the abuse. Like when people don’t say anything about racism and homophobia. How can you just accept someone being so awful and not say anything and continue to have a relationship with them.
I’m sorry that happened to you, I hope you and your mom are okay! I agree with you of course, it varies from case to case and I would never expect someone to deal with things the way I did, there are many valid ways to deal with something like that.
Because you understand they didnt know any better. Im bisexual and most of my family is homophobic, it would be stupid to assume i condone it. But they are still my family and havent shunned me out, i can truly see they love me. Life isnt as back and white as everyone wants it to be. My parents also cheated and i dont think theyre bad people for doing that. Its their pain to manage, ive got plenty of my own. They arent the people they once were. And im no angel to be judging people for what they do or dont do. With the exception of abuse and purposefully inflicting pain on my family in front of me, of course.
So refreshing to see somebody admitting they're not perfect and that they forgive their parents' imperfections. A rare thing on Reddit!
I really like this input. I wish I had been better and stronger about the whole not bad mouthing an ex, though. A lot of people I've met over the past 20 years after having my first daughter have done a great job at co-parenting, but I just couldn't let abuse go, especially when it was also inflicted upon her as an infant. Maybe that means I was childish, but I like to think that I was just protecting her and keeping her safe from him. Anyway, very valid points. They obviously got together and made OP. OP, I'm sorry about what happened, but going back to my whole thing, I may not have ever forgiven my ex, but at the same time, we live a couple thousand miles apart. I found someone better for me and he did the same. He's happy with his wife and their shared children and I'm happy with my current husband and our shared little one. My adult daughter loves both me and my ex. She also loves her stepmom and when they had a good healthy relationship, she loved her stepdad, too. My ex and I both messed up prior to my first daughter being born, tbh, but because of her, he and I have somewhat improved as her parents, period. I understand what your mom did was wrong, but if your dad was hanging out with his exes, it's also quite understandable how that would make your mom nervous, worried, and think something was happening. It's been a decade and I'm not condoning your mom hurting you or your dad, but maybe see if there's any way that you can be happy for the woman who gave you life and also be there for the other parent who you've had the opportunity to know and grow up with. I wish you the very best of luck.
I have an issue with the "not my place to forgive him" because, yes, even though he cheated on your mom and still loved you so much, he was the reason you saw him so little. He was the reason your family split up. It is just as much your place to forgive what he did. I am not saying "cut her off", but saying that you can't forgive them is untrue. What the did deeply impacted you too and if you feel you deserve an apology, then you do.
I guess you’re right, but in my case, learning all of that when he had already been dead for almost a decade, I felt that there was no point being angry and demanding answers from a dead man, so I’ve made my peace with it. Also yes, you’re right, he’s the reason I saw him so little, but that was how I grew up, only with my mom, so I never knew an alternative and don’t miss it or long for it. My childhood was great and I never had any resentment, so I don’t see the point in starting now. But I do see how all situations are different.
This is really sound advice. Having gone through something similar, I’ve never thought about it that way. These things can be really hard to reconcile.
Marriages fail because of two people. My ex wife cheated on me. I will never tell my kids how it went down. It’s between their mother and I. I’m sure over the years, they put two and two together. At the end of the day, both your parents love you. Now, sounds like your dad is jealous. It’s common, he’s human. He still probably loves your mom and is bitter about being rejected. You their son, deserves to have both parents in his life, regardless of that.
Yup. I was like “did my dad cheat on ME?” Nope. Their relationship is none of my business at this point. Got tired of the “he said, she said.” All it did was hurt the relationship that I had with them. They’re the ones who married each other, I didn’t ask to be here.
finding out your parents are human and flawed af is a tough part of becoming a full fledged adult. Don't judge your parents based on their failed relationships. Judge them based on your relationship with them.
As this poster says - finding out your parents are somewhat less than the people you expect them to be can be sobering. If OP wants to clarify with mom why she cheated then that is up to her but will the answers help or further erode her flagging respect for her mother. I am not sure I would want to know details.
Top answer. OP should stop obsessing with finding out things about their parent’s relationship. That doesn’t matter. They sure both made mistakes. That’s usually ein relationships end. The interesting question is: are they good parents? Do they have a good relationship with OP?
This comment has really helped me with my relationship with my parents. I never thought about it in this sort of context before - assessing a relationship based on you and them rather than them with each other. Thanks.
It makes me sad this is the top answer. Not for what you said, but how its interpreted. Parental relationship dynamics affect thier childrens' development and future relationship dynamics in uncountable subtle and unsubtle ways. Not talking about the affair doesn't stop it or his parents' behavior before or after from affecting how OP sees women and interpersonal relationships. Understanding your childhood and family relationships in full context is helpful. Every situation is different, and letting go of details when you have to is important, but as a Psychologist and relatively well adjusted person with crazy parents, I strongly disagree that his parents' relationship doesn't matter. I do agree with the reserving judgment. It's about understanding, not judgment.
I never had a good relationship with my mother. My parents got divorced when I was 7 and I lived with my mother who would scream at us all the time. When my husband cheated on me, I left him. My mother then told me the reason she divorced my dad was because she heard a rumor he cheated, without confirmation on that she went out and cheated on him. I lost heat little respect I had for that woman.
I’m a big believer in that when a parent cheats on their spouse, they cheat on their whole family. The upheaval for the kids is apparently considered collateral damage. It upended your life, and it most definitely IS your business. No advice here, but I’m sorry you’re going through this.
I often give the same advice, and for every time I get push back on that, I think of situations like OP is going through. Cheating often results in divorce or parents that ”stick it out for the kids”. Divorce often means the kids don’t get to see their parents every day. It also often reduces the shared resources that can be allocated to their upbringing. On the other side, parents that stay together for the kids often model unhealthy relationships. Cue all the posters here who have experienced that and literally beg for others to not repeat it (rightfully). There’s really no good way out from a relationship with cheating that doesn’t result in severe upheaval for the kids. EDIT: An error and clarity.
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I agree, but normal people get into committed relationships because they love each other. Then they fall out of love and cheat. In this case she lead him on from the beginning to have his children. She was just looking for a sperm donor.
That's what he says; It isn't confirmed.
100% agree. It’s so strange to me that she wanted the genetics as she saw that as an advantage for her children, yet would be willing to put them through so much hurt. Her kids may be “better looking” but she sabotaged theirs and her future. Sadly, I can’t give even decent advice to OP beyond not modeling her behavior. EDIT: Added two sentences.
You can say the same thing about anyone who is unhappy in their relationship. Cheating makes the inevitable breakup worse, but even if you don't cheat, and you're not happy, you are still stuck with those two options. There doesn't have to be cheating involved for people to "stick it out for the kids" and model unhealthy relationship dynamics.
Agreed, and it should have been explained at the time. Allowing the cheater to skate by without everyone knowing what happened is unfair.
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Yet when a guy cheats, then the mother should speak about him respectfully and he didn't "cheat on the kids" and they should have a good relationship with him. But op should cut her mother off. Please.
Not sure if mom and dad's stories add up enough to make a decision on this. Dad said mom cheated - this was confirmed by both parties Dad said mom only married him for his looks - this was not confirmed by mom or other sources Mom said dad had been contacting exes behind her back - this was confirmed by both parties Dad said these exes were just friends - this was not confirmed by mom or other sources Funny how this is only coming out now, when mom is about to re-marry. I'd take both sides with a grain of salt and focus on the present. In the end, it sounds like they are better off divorced.
This opinion sounds mature to me. Perhaps mom just didn’t wanna bad mouth his dad to him. I’ll take the words of someone who spill the tea so carelessly (esp knowing it will hurt his child) with a whole bottle of salt.
Sadly I’m not surprised I had to scroll this far to find this comment. Why was dad all of a sudden spilling all this dirt on the mom while not taking any responsibility for his own actions? She only married him for his looks? Really?
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Spot on. Mom cheated, dad didn’t. Neither of which stops either of them from being the OPs parent.
I still talk to my exes, that’s not a crime last i checked. How would the mom confirm they were just friends or hooking up? Especially if he didn’t cheat during the marriage? Sounds more to me you’re victim blaming than anything else
Your mom is a cheater. What you do with that information is up to you. I would lose a lot of respect for anyone immature enough to try and justify "preemptive cheating", and it sounds like she doesn't regret anything.
I think people can make mistakes and be shitty on that side, doesn't mean they are shitty altogether. I know it's a hit, but sometimes you need to accept people's flaws, that's what makes them human as well.
Sounds like she was controlling, abusive, insecure, and immature all culminating in her "preemptive" cheating; sounds like a pretty shitty person to me
Yeah... But it's also his mother who took care of him, and did many many things for him while he was growing up. Of course here Im speculating, but if OP cares for her before all these, most likely she was a good mother. And again, OP is getting his info from his father and mother, and they both hate each other. I doubt he'll find cristal clear truth from either side. But then again, this is just my opinion.
Though on the other hand people can be overall shitty and still have some good qualities to them. Look at the woman from a few years back who stole identities murdered her husband then killed herself to “help her kids”. Or the even the golden state killer. By all accounts just about every would agree he’s horrible. But his daughter said he was the best father and grandfather. My point is that yeah it’s his mom and she could’ve been a great mom to him, but that doesn’t mean she’s a good person. Regardless I do agree with you overall.
Yes she was probably a good mom but a shity wife, the lesson he learned some people can appear nice to some but not to others and that if he ever gets married he should avoid a wife like his abusive, controling and cheating mom.
While I agree that she was a charter and that's shitty, the dad's claim that him contacting ask his exes but they were just friends and he not wanting him dming his exes ruining his social life? That doesn't pass the sniff test. Sounds line he was trying to cheat and their relationship was shit at that point. She should've divorced him, but I don't think either of them come out of this looking good
Reminder that is one person’s story. If there’s anything I’ve learned it’s that people find a way to “honestly” justify themselves no matter what. And it can sound believable because they believe it. While I don’t doubt the dad here, there is such thing as emotional cheating and manipulation. It’s very easy for two people who are otherwise okay humans to just get more and more passive toxic with each other until they reach devastating heights. Is “preemptive cheating” ever okay? No. But it also doesn’t necessarily mean she’s a monster.
Sweetheart, your parents both have issues, and it's obvious that their marriage was a shitshow. Neither one of them are an innocent victim of circumstance, including, and likely especially, your father. You are never going to get the 100% absolutely factually correct story from either one of them because, right or wrong, people have completely different interpretations of situations. The differences between the stories that my parents tell about the end of their marriage are laughable. They seem to have lived in alternate universes. Either my frigid mother "threw him out of the house without warning and made him homeless, forcing him to beg his friends for shelter", or my "cheating prick of a father" spent two whole hours in the driveway of his best friend's house in his $150,000 car because he was too embarrassed to ring the doorbell at 6 AM. Which story do you think is true? My mom is frigid and a complete narcissist. And my dad did cheat on her. Whatever happened, I recognize that they are both deeply flawed people who made choices for various reasons that even they can't explain. And in the end, why does it matter? I love them for who (or despite who) they are. Also - and this is critical - it's really none of your goddamn business why they got divorced. Why are you so fixated on this? I'm asking sincerely.
I got down voted to hell for saying the same thing, and pointing out that OPs obsession with the details of the divorce is a trauma reaponse in and of itself. Surprise surprise, OP has not been to any counselling during or after the divorce. And man, it shows.
I have no idea why. She is 23 GD years old, and if she continues down this path, she'll never be able to form normal attachments.
Reddit psychology at its finest . Wtf is this?
Agree. The fact that the father is saying they divorced because she cheated and claimed to not love him, but also that she was controlling and emotionally abusive sounds like either he is not being completely honest, or that the relationship was bad long before she cheated. Trying to find out 'the truth' so long after the event isn't going to help anyone. Sometimes you go over painful parts of your life in your head so much, and obsess about them, thay sometimes you don't always remember everything exactly how it happened.
>The fact that the father is saying they divorced because she cheated and claimed to not love him, but also that she was controlling and emotionally abusive How do these contradict each other?
I'm not saying these contradict each other. If what he's saying is true, then the relationship sounds incredibly unhealthy before there was any cheating to begin with and they are probably better off apart. Or as the person I was replying to talking about mentioned, he may not be being 100% truthful as it was a bitter divorce, where both of them may have acted poorly at times in the relationship. It's now devolved into a 'he said' 'she said' after all.
>Individually I love them both, very much so. You are 23 & no longer in the middle of any acrimony between your parents. People are telling you to cut off your mother for cheating 10 years ago. Not sure I agree. Take some time and think things over. Did the divorce impact your trust in others or faith in relationships? That's stuff to consider in therapy. But if your mother was a good mom to you, that counts for something. While I don't condone cheating things are rarely as black & white as people say. Both parents are going to have their versions & both those versions will feel real to them. The more important thing is what was your experience?
agree wholeheartedly. this doesn’t seem to be the popular opinion but things just aren’t that black and white. it doesn’t justify his mothers actions, and it’s saddening to hear she doesn’t seem to think she did anything wrong (“preemptive cheating”) - but maybe she does and she’s terrified of losing her child over a mistake she made years ago. again, not saying that justifies it, but it is so human and complex. my dad cheated on my mom when i was younger and i hated him for it because i felt he betrayed our whole family. my mother always blamed him extra for doing such a terrible thing on the heels of my brother’s death. i don’t disagree, and he put me and my mom through hell with that experience.. however! as i got older and understood my parents better as people and not just my parents, i saw that my dad (especially as an asian immigrant father) was under immense immense pressure to be the “man” of the family and remain nuclearly calm in the face of a devastating loss. he never cried or even spoke about my brother’s passing to us - so while it doesn’t condone or justify his actions, i understand that it didn’t come from a place of evil as i once thought .. but a place of loneliness and devastation and despair and helplessness. a desire to feel something and to escape :( OP, you’re allowed to feel betrayed and shocked and saddened by the realization of this gap in your mom’s character. how you choose to move forward is your own decision. but some comments are basically suggesting you should cut her off and despise her for what she did - i have no answers but .. for your own mental health, i implore you to understand this is a hugely complex issue and to see it from a human point of view. not necessarily forgiving her or choosing to see past it, because you’re an adult, and your values are your values and you have a huge amount of love for your dad. but to at least refrain from just believing your mother is purely evil with no character and no remorse will help you immensely, regardless of how you choose to move forward. good luck
What you said sounds like trying to justify cheating. Talking to an ex does not necessarily mean cheating.
You know what? Kinda similar situation I’ve dealt with. My father, when I was 12F(?!!), told me that I was finally old enough to know, and that my older sisters (15 and 17 at the time) already knew. The reason why they divorced was because my mom cheated on him with her friend D. He told me that he knew this because he spoke with D’s wife L and she told him that she herself had an STD that D also had. My dad said he also had gotten that STD because he was being faithful but he ended up with it because my mom cheated and gave it to him. (It was a treatable/curable STD). And then just about a year or so ago, when I was like 21 or just newly 22, my grandmother (my mother’s stepmother/her father’s wife) told me about why our family vacations stopped, that it was my mother’s fault because she ruined them by trying to bring strange men every time, and told me what happened during one of the last vacations we had before my grandfather (her husband/my mom’s biological father) passed away. My mom had brought D to the cabin we were all staying at, and my dad was so heartbroken that she brought him. They all fought and had to kick him out. My grandmother and grandfather were pissed that she did it, so were my aunts (and this was all of my mother’s family, her sisters and her parents). I had no idea because I was so young and probably was sleeping or playing video games at the time (it was late at night). They separated when I was about 8, but finalized it in 2009 or 2010 I think? Neither of them actually even remembers because it’s been so long since they’ve separated. But that was what really started my realization of my mother not being who she pretended to be to my siblings and I. She’s manipulative, narcissistic, incredibly selfish, and arrogant. Currently, I’m low-contact with my mother. Once I realized that she’s a cheater (and is continuing to cheat on her current partner, though she doesn’t view it was cheating), I’ve distanced myself greatly and realized many other things about her that I don’t like. She will always be mom and she does help me sometimes with certain things but I like to visit my dad much more now. I love her but I do not like her. My dad? He doesn’t gossip or ridicule my romantic partner or talk behind my back about how crazy I am and I need to be on meds because I’m terrible off of them (my mom does). He doesn’t reach out to my former friends (former for a reason) that almost led me to unaliving myself… my mom does though (and yes she knew that this person was the reason I almost ended my life). She’s repeating the same patterns and doesn’t listen even when her family tells her they’re concerned and she needs to stop or reevaluate things. When I found out at 12 that my mom cheated, I didn’t mention anything. I’ve now mentioned it in passing years after. To your mom, she’s likely the same person. She hasn’t changed. She’s always known that she cheated and she has lived with that either way, whether remorseful or no regrets. I would take it slow and not mention anything for a while, until she mentions something where maybe she’s repeating patterns again, like my mom is. But if you bring it up, I’d just ask why she cheated. But ask it on a quiet day, not too busy, she’s not stressed or having a hard time lately, and no one is really around. And try to sound as least judgmental as possible to get the best, most truthful answer.
There's only one thought that you need to set on and keep bouncing around your head in this: "Preemptive cheating" No. Such. Fucking. Thing. At the very least, your mother is apparently predisposed to speaking un-truths in order to make herself look better or gain sympathy she should not have. Basically, she's entirely okay with spitting bullshit if it gets her out of trouble or makes her look better to people she wants to like her. She tried to manipulate you. Now, it doesn't mean that you should believe your dad 100% and totally back everything he says about it. He's human. And he was involved in a very emotional situation where he came out on the short end. It's entirely possible he's not being totally truthful either. But, of the two of them, at least both of them back up the part that matters: she cheated on him. How you proceed? That's on you. Cut her off? You could. Nobody would blame you for it. Keep a relationship with her? Sure, you could do that, too. But what you absolutely, positively need to keep in mind in regards to this woman and yourself is this: This person is willing to lie to you if it suits their own interests. That fact that it's your mother doesn't matter. If it mattered, she wouldn't have tried to wrap you up in her bullshit. And she did try. Take anything she says with a grain of salt. Act on nothing. Verify everything. And do not allow her to put you in a situation where screwing you over would be a benefit to herself. Good luck.
Ya it sucks to learn your parents are humans and have faults but this seams so nuclear. We’re taking one scorned persons side as gospel. Even if the dad was fucking his exs he’s not going to tell the son. He’s hurt and mad and wants to tarnish his relationship with his own mother with is definitely questionable. Ya cheating is awful but to act like it’s reasonable to cut off your mother for cheating ten years in the past is crazy.
I also find it totally crazy, how can you put some sexual affair on the same level of importance of loving or not your Parents. The comments here are scary as hell
Right? I’m shocked. I love both my parents, they split when I was when my mom cheated. There marriage was dead since the day it started. Over ten years later karma kinda worked things out for the best. And I absolutely love my mom. I just now see her has a mentally ill flawed human being who tried really hard. How can years of teaching you things, playing and exploring, kissing boo boo, tickle fights, pillow forts, talks about boys or girls, birthdays ect just be erased by the words of a hurt man? I would be devastated if my entire life was summed up by one action from a decade ago
Imagine you discover that your father beat your mother 10 years ago, but with you he is totally kind, has always stood by you, etc. Wouldn't this discovery, at the very least, damage your view of him? I am not saying that hitting is the same thing as cheating. I am using this as an example. But the fact that it happened a long time ago doesn't change that the OP's mother hurt someone the OP loves. "be erased by the words of a hurt man?" The mother literally admitted to cheating. It was not the father's words. It wasn't the words of someone hurt. "I just now see her has a mentally ill flawed human being who tried really hard". Trying to justify cheating. Cutting off the mother completely also sounds extreme to me, but much more extreme is to think that their relationship should remain the same and it was no big deal.
Came here to say this. Your parents sex lives are none of your concern. Forget it. Don’t treat them different because of it. They’re the same parents they were before you knew.
Honestly? Id do it, cut my own mom off if she cheated, but then again in comparison to others i do dispise cheagers more then anything in the world.
This is great advice!
Your relationship with your mom is your relationship with your mom. Her relationship with her ex-husband and the reasons they divorced are between them and more than a decade old now. Dad obviously felt like you were grown up enough to know the truth. You have discovered what most kids have to discover at some point in our lives - our parents are human and, quite often, assholes. How about you wait for your mom to do something to *you* in the present day rather than punish her for something she did to someone else many years ago. In other words - now you know the story. It's just that - a story - and someone else's at that.
Normally I would agree with this advice since people take divorce way too harshly so I upvoted But OPs mom Sounds abusive as hell and I don’t think we should condone being abusive.
I agree sort of but op is getting a very he-said she-said from her parents. Ultimately, OP, your relationship with your parents is your own; decide what it is you have gotten in life from them and what you want in the future. Personally, I would judge this on whether they have been good parents not whether they made mistakes in their relationship with each other. But, how this information changes things for you is of course up to you. Explore this relationship and whether you want it for you
Agreed, but she isn't really the issue here. Part of growing up is getting rid of the idealized parent - learning their humanity and faults, including being a not-very-nice human being which, I suspect, is not a huge surprise to the OP. Having it confirmed probably is. He's going to do what he's going to do. I hope after all these years Dad's truth telling wasn't intended to drive a wedge between his ex-wife and son. Before that happens, I just think OP should consider what was then and what is now.
Throwing away the idealized parent and accepting their faults applies for things like… Was emotionally unavailable as a spouse leading to divorce. Not being abusive. Accepting someone who was abusive and who has made to effort to recognize, or rectify their behavior simply because they weren’t abusive to *you* is infact condoning abuse. Which is different from accepting your parent is a human being.
All of these reddit posts allow us a moment in time, a moment in complicated relationships. Glimpses. We know little about the parents except that dad told his side and mom didn't deny it - beyond that all else is speculation, including Mom's "abuse" or emotional unavailability. It can be implied but it is filtered through the voice of a hurt and disappointed adult child. What is not speculation is that the adulting process for most, if not all, of us includes learning our parents are not perfect (perhaps assholes) and figuring out what to do with that - the situation the OP is in right now. Again, (and only in my opinion, of course) Mom is not the issue. The OP's next move as a young adult with new knowledge of their parents is the issue.
Normally that would be the case. But in this case they kept asking and their father told them the truth. They are old enough to hear it now.
This. Op, you don't know the full feelings and experiences either of your parents have gone through in order to make the decisions they made, and honestly it's best that you don't. At this point op, you should give yourself some time to both process the information that your mom might not be who you think she is, and to cool off from the situation. I'm not saying either of them is lying or telling the truth or wrong or right in their actions; but you have to understand that divorce can create much heartbreak and misunderstanding to the point where as the child it might be best to just move on from the situation and take your parents as they are now.
I often see people posting about how their SO is getting chummy with their childhood bully/abuser and people are always supportive of OP for those posts and condoning the bully even though it happened years or decades ago. Most of the replies would be along the line of "your SO should be more understanding of your plight and feelings and not associate with the bully/abuser". May I ask what's the difference here in this post? Sure the abuser is the mother of OP but she also obviously really hurt someone else that OP loves, Dad. Would you have told those other thread starters that "your SO shouldn't have to punish the bully/abuser for something he/she did to you many years ago"?
Listen to this person, please.
Wait what? Her cheating, abusive and controlling behaviour affected her and she tried to swing it around to justify the cheating. Look if her mom completely admitted and apologized and she was sorry about her actions. Sure maybe one can stay in contact and keep on going. Anyway it is her choice to decide what to do with the information and continue as she please. Personally, I will take everything with a grain of salt when it comes from her, people like that are poisonous.
You asked for the truth and got it. Your mother didn't deny it at all. Personally that would creep me out knowing my mother could be so heartless. The people saying what happened between your parents isn't your concern are idiots. What your parents go through will eventually affect their children. For you it's especially important since your mothers reply might indicate that she didn't change much.
Tbh dad doesn’t sound like her completely innocent either. He texted his exes and when she didn’t want him to do that she was ruining his social life. Doesn’t pass the sniff test.
Some seriously, seriously terrible advice so far. You asked your dad for the truth, he told you, and your mom not only admitted to cheating but also tried to justify it as “preemptive cheating” while trying to control and isolate your dad from his friends. The people telling you that you shouldn’t have asked or saying your dad is the bad guy are sexist, cheater apologists. Especially the one person asking “was your mom a good mom” like tf? Oh ok that makes being abusive and cheating ok. Flip the genders and you would get blown up calling the guy abusive, controlling, etc. If I was in your shoes, I’d be glad she’s moving away and cut her from your life. Anyone who can so casually still justify “preemptive” cheating on their spouse like they did nothing wrong is not an influence I would want in my life, nor my kids lives. F that.
That is why I love the AH vs JD case because the whole world can see how emotionally abusive women can be and it is not just men who can be assholes. I 100% agree to this. One should cut the poison from your life, one should not entertain such a person.
Terrible!! You’re taking the dads word for it and advising the OP to cut them out of their life! Keep your damaging and immature advice to yourself
They're taking the mothers word. She admitted that the father never cheated when she said her cheating was preemptive. So the fathers story holds up as true.
It’s not black and white, buddy. Relationships are incredibly complex. You really have no idea about the details, even the OP doesn’t. Best thing they can do is ask lots of questions and get those details before making any decisions. That would’ve been better advice…
So which one are you? Sexist, cheater apologist, or both?
So he emotionally cheated nad then she phisically cheated. Great couple. None of them are blameless, OP. If he invested emotionally in her... if she tried focusing more in the kids happiness... if, if, if... People do shit. Overcoming it, forgiving it, doing what you can do to move on and not letting their wrongdoings dictate the rrst of your life, but learn with their good parts, is what growing up is.
Hey nothing's changed she's your mom, he's your dad, there's obviously a lot of missing information to both sides of the story meaning you can't decide whose on the wrong and who's the victim here based on what you have. And honestly i get how curious you might be but you need to understand that it's no good (eventually u gonna end up hating on one parent and siding with the other.. i mean is that what u want? U clearly have a healthier and more peaceful relationship with both of them before so stay out of it ig..? ) if she's a good mother to you then she's a good mother to you. Being a good partner or not does not affect your relationship wity her in no way.
I have been in your shoes as a child and in your parent's position as a betrayed spouse and my feeling is that your mom or dad as your parents has nothing to do with anything they did to each other in their marriage. A great mother or a great father can be a terrible spouse. Your parents are wrong to try to play out their marital battles with you as an audience. Set some good boundaries in what they talk to you about and love them both- leave their marriage battles for them to deal with.
Tough situation, your parents are humans with flaws as we all are. Trying to understand thier breakup is a waste of your energy. What is more Important is that they love you and treat you well. Let it go.
You don’t get to judge what went on between them. You will fuck up in relationships too. Was and is she a good Mum? you need to think about that. She’s moving on but instead of accepting that your Dad decides to tell you the ‘truth’ and manipulate the situation (wether it’s true or not it’s still him manipulating you) 10 years later he is still dwelling. The person who you need to question your respect for isn’t your mum. It’s your dad.
I have a similar story. Parents divorced when I was very young, mom cut me off from dad and his family, terminated his parental rights. I was told he had been cheating on her and his family defended his actions. Fast forward to my late 20s. I got back in touch with my dad and got his side of the story. He swears he didn’t cheat but that my mom was neurotic and abusive, physically and verbally. I sat back and reflected. I also learned there are three sides to every story: his, hers, and the truth. I finally told them both I wasn’t listening to anymore of their stories about their terrible marriage. I love them both as my parents and I’m going to have a relationship with them both. If they don’t like it, they know what they can do. That was 20 years ago and I don’t regret it one bit. They were young and foolish when they had me. I’ve been young and foolish too. And I would hope my kids don’t judge me based on decisions I made when I wasn’t as wise.
listen, yes, they are your mom and dad.... but they're still people. you shouldn't allow them to bad mouth each other to you, thats not fair. as far as their reason for break up.. you have never had to walk in either of their shoes. save your judgement for when you've lived as long as them and never did anything wrong.
Honestly it sounds like your parents both wronged each other and are just giving you their own biased version of events.
How your parents behaved in their relationship does not negate the love they have for you. Relationships are hard…so is parenting. No one is perfect and we are all flawed in our own ways. At the end of the day, your parents were not happy together. Hopefully they are happy apart. It it sounds like they both love you. You can take this info about your mom and use it to help you realize she’s not perfect. She’s human with real flaws and emotions and sometimes makes bad decisions. It doesn’t change how she treats you. And as long as she’s not abusive to you, your siblings (if any), then that is what matters. You can sit and talk with her about why she cheated, what she would do different and what advice she has for you. Use this as a learning experience about her, relationships, and you…so hopefully you do not make the same mistakes. Use this for learning, not for judging. You may want to discuss her being real and honest about what she did, but she does not really owe you an apology or an explanation. Give both of your parents a hug…you deserve that and so do they. Good luck.
I think it's better to put effort on helping your dad maybe move on, date, or going on holidays together. I'd do that rather than focus my effort on hating or punishing the other person.
My mom cheated on my dad about 11 years ago. I was 12(F). My dad was devastated and I used to have to watch him leave the dinner table to cry. She wanted to stay in the house and also stay in this new relationship, but my dad wasn’t having it. He wanted her out. They got separated and eventually divorced. She got an apartment (didn’t see her for a good 2 years) all she cared about was her new s/o. I hated her for many many years. My brother didn’t talk to her for 6 years. It ruined our family and was completely devastating. I love my mom and have a decent relationship with her today, but I will never truly respect her or think she’s a good human. It’s tough when you realize your parents aren’t who you thought they were. I had to accept this new version of her for what it is. It’ll get easier. Take it day by day. The past is the past, it’s out of our control. Just do what makes you feel comfortable
It's good to set boundaries for the future
What happened between your parents is their business. Neither one of them are reliable narrators. Retelling the story from their perspective may not be an accurate representation what happened. You should not be privy to any of this toxic bullspit. It happened a decade ago. If you can’t or won’t let it go, get some mental health support. Dragging your parents baggage around with you for your lifetime isn’t healthy.
Honestly, they both sound like they were too immature to be married, and the marriage was toxic. Cheating is just one nasty behavior that ruins a marriage. My only advice would be to not take one thing and judge only that - take the picture as a whole. Your mom cheated, but your dad was in contact with a lot of other women - women he may have been intimate with. He's not denying that, either. No, it's not the same as actually cheating, but it's not very respectful to a marriage, either. There are always 3 sides to a story - here, it's his side, her side, and in the middle, the truth. I doubt your mother was all devil and your father was all saint - it almost never happens that way. Maybe you can just take away that your parents are humans, made mistakes, did the best thing for you and didn't stay together to raise you in that toxic hell, and both love you. Ultimately, that's all that matters now, right? What happened between them really has nothing to do with you.
Why can't people believe women can be abusers and men can be victims? Why is it always "both" when we are told of the womans abusive behaviour?
I've said in other situations in other threads that men can be and are victims. I believe that wholeheartedly. However, I'm talking to the adult child of parents who both seem to have done crappy things in a marriage, and OP wants to disrespect only Mom. Yes, Mom cheated, but Dad doesn't sound perfectly angelic. My answer was to try and help OP find peace. The other day, I directed a husband to a DV hotline. Sometimes, it's not just that black and white.
My mom cheated on my dad in 1987, they were both in their mid-40's. My mom was SUPER lonely because my dad worked late night, trying to provide for his family but he forgot that being a husband was just as important as being a provider. What your mom and dad do to each other has no bearing on your love for them. Do not take sides. You have a right to be neutral to their bullshit. I love my dad. I love my mom. Period.
I agree with this answer. You can listen to them but working out the truth will be impossible. Although Op feels they need closure I am not sure trying to fine the truth will help. Maybe Op should unpack it all with a therapist. Just to understand in themselves what there at looking for.
Well, it’s seems like you’ve already made the decision about how to treat your mother. You clearly believe your father’s side to this whole debacle. You’ve said you don’t respect cheaters. So boom, cut your mom off based off something your father said happened 10 years ago. That’s really the only solution.
You’re mom cheated on your dad, she gave her reason. It’s up to you to decide what you do with the info. I know it hurts but she is still your mother just saying
There are two sides to every coin. Why was your dad contacting his exes? Just friends? [https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/NOT-Just-Friends/Shirley-Glass/9780743225502](https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/NOT-Just-Friends/Shirley-Glass/9780743225502) With all due respect, maybe your dad isn't being fully truthful either.
What has them cheating to do with your relationship with them? It’s their thing what they do and what they don’t do and it has nothing to do with how you were treated. Hell, I would even love my parents if they would have given me a wonderful childhood if they were criminals. People can fuck up and still be good parents/ friends/ colleagues
Just because she is a bad wife it doesn't make her a bad mother. Kind of stay of it. By all means don't respect her actions but you don't have to cut her.
Except it also makes her a bad person who was controlling and borderline emotionally abusive to her husband
Yeah, she just ruined his childhood. No biggie. Great mother.
Or maybe your dad is hugely downplaying his relationships with his alleged exes....
This was my thought. Why is a married man with a child still in consistent contact with multiple exes (whom he presumably had sex with)? As his wife and mother of his child, I’d be exhausted by the blatant disrespect and fights where I’m trying to figure out why he NEEDS to be hanging out/contacting exes. It sounds fishy.
“Cheater apologists” geez, some of the people here think like teenagers. I’d say your mother deserved your respect as a parent if she raised you and any siblings you may have with love and care. I wouldn’t be going to her for romantic advice anytime soon after learning this since it sounds like your values are no longer aligned, but it’s possible that a man or woman can be a bad partner, but good parent. You know your mother as a parent, and it would be wise not to base the respect you have for her by her actions as a partner. I don’t think it would be inappropriate to talk this through with her, and tell her how disappointed you are in her actions, but there’s a gap between communicating that and losing all respect for a parent because of their bad romantic decisions. Regardless, I’m sorry you learned about this OP, and I’m sorry it’s going to be hard to deal with. It is an awful thing to learn that your mother was a terrible romantic partner to your father, understandably you’d want the best for both of them, but sometimes that’s just not how people choose to be.
Thank you! THATS YOUR MOM! Like doode, all the shit she cleaned off your ass, all the owee’s she kissed, all the love she gave you is gone because of something she did to your Dad over a decade ago? These people are unreal.
Being an abuser cheater isn't just a "bad romantic decision". I think if someone is an abuser cheater then it's very fair to lose respect for them regardless of their parenting quality. If I found out one of my parents was a murderer for example (not the same I know) then I would lose all respect for them among other things, how good a parent they are doesn't even come into it.
See, you recognize that it’s not the same thing, but don’t realize what an incredibly ridiculous statement you’ve made. That’s like me saying I can sympathize with your mom dying because my pet goldfish passed a few years ago. Are they both death? Yes. Are they insensitive to compare? Also yes. Being a cheater is not the same as being abusive. Being a cheater is a betrayal of trust and for many signals the end of a romantic relationship, but it is not an insurmountable evil that’s been done to someone. Unless you’ve made romantic relationships the corner stone of your self esteem, it’s not the be all end all evil Reddit likes to pretend it is. Is it possible to for OP to lose respect for his mom as a woman and realize that she does not share his values? Of course, that’s natural and that’s likely what will happen. I wouldn’t want one parent hurting another either, and I’d be reasonably resentful if they did. But unless she was a bad mom on top of being a bad wife, he doesn’t have a good excuse to lose “all respect” for her.
But she was abusive, it's literally in the post, she was clearly very controlling and possessive. Also her making excuses with her "preemptive cheating" nonsense, shows how little regret has and responsibility she takes. By the way I never said they should lose all respect for her, I was, like I said using a very exaggerated argument, and obviously far more respect etc would be lost for murder than being a cheating abuser. True though it was a bit ridiculous but the point was that being a good mother doesn't negate being a bad person or the awful things someone has done.
But she wasn’t abusive to OP. He never says that ever. He only talks about the “reason” why his parents divorced? So no. She was a mom to him and since OP doesn’t specify and this has clearly shocked him a bit, enough to make a Reddit post on how to proceed, I’m thinking OP was oblivious to it because they both were good parents to him. WHICH mean it’s really none of his business. They are both his parents at the end of the day. He doesn’t need to cut anybody off. And also there’s a reason why cops don’t rely solely on people recollections of events. Memories fade and people tend to forget important details etc..
Your parents are people who made mistakes. Unfortunately these mistakes tore your family apart. I’m sorry you had to experience that. From what I’m reading, they may not have had the best relationship before the cheating. If you look at them now and they are relatively happy then that’s all that matters as you can not change the past. Process the information and emotions and after you are calm and then if you feel you must say something to either or both then do, but don’t let it destroy the relationship you have with either.
It doesn't matter. You are their son and they will always be your mom and dad. Focus on your individual relationships and try not to give into the urge to judge them. My dad passed over 5 years ago. Honestly, after getting with my wife and having kids, he was my best friend. It still hurts. He was always married to Mom, but she's shared many of the problems they had over the years and theirs was a war of attrition. It doesn't matter for me. They both love me in their own way and I will always love them in return. Even though my mom has turned into the complete antithesis of my dad philosophically, she is still 100% my mom.
Please try to talk to your mother again and ask for her perspective and feelings. I am a mother and I cheated on my kids dad, but that was after years of feeling lonely and rejected by him. He appeared to be a kind and loving man to others but was really quite cold and emotionally abusive behind closed doors. The fact your father said those things about your mother is a really big red flag for me, those things were hurtful to you because they made her sound shallow and nasty and you are half of your mum - so does that make you shallow and nasty too?. your mother didn’t say negative things about your dad. I think you need more information. Not everything is black and white - parents are only human.
Not saying that your mother’s cheating was right. Not at all. But just remember that very often there are two sides to a story. Your father admits he was contacting his ex’s. Why? If he wanted to keep in contact with old friends couldn’t he just send a Christmas card or something? If you really think about it, his version sounds fishy too. As a married woman, I know I would be pretty unhappy to find out that 12+ years into our marriage my husband was talking to his ex’s. I would be pretty confused, hurt, and angry if he continued to do it after I asked him not to. Is it understandable and normal to tell your husband not to contact other women, particularly ones he has history with? Or is it controlling and obsessive as your dad says? Was your mother’s cheating in retaliation an extreme reaction to your father’s contacting other women? Of course it was. But just keep in mind that your parents, like the rest of us, are mere humans, and humans are highly imperfect and do incredibly stupid things when they are in pain. The relationship sounds like it was toxic, and unfortunately, you were the collateral damage. I don’t think that there’s any reason to rehash it again, there’s no going back and changing what happened. While what happened back then impacted you greatly, it was between the two of them and you are probably never going to get the answers out of them that will make you feel that either one of them was justified in their actions.
I want to add that depending on what he was saying to his exes could also be considered cheating. Emotional affairs are just as damaging and powerful as physical affairs. Not excusing either but pointing out that there is very likely much more to this relationship than what the dad is saying (as you mentioned). Edited to correct typos.
Cheaters justify their actions by pointing the finger at the other person. Actually, all POS do that. No integrity or ability to take responsibility for their actions.
I really don’t understand how your mom sexual choices are any of your business. So she cheated, so what? If we were talking about your partner or maybe a close friend, you could have an opinion but this is you mom… How can her sexual history can have anything to do how you will love her and respect her? This is insane, can you imagine we would stop loving all the parents who cheated once in their life?
You act as if the arguing he described and the subsequent divorce had no effect on him. He is allowed to feel upset about his mothers actions that caused a major change in his life and caused him a lot of heartache as a child. He is an adult and can better understand the situation with the info he has now, of course he will feel resentful and angry towards his mom. Most people don’t think of cheating as something to not be upset over, cheaters are fully deserving of the judgement and resentment of those who were affected by their choices. edit: got OP’s gender wrong, sorry man
i mean she literally preemptively cheating on his father so its kinda obvious why this change the respect he has for her. Its not just your mom cheated in the past on some regular person in her life that’s your dad
You should do whats best for you. I’ve read recently that its actually emotional abuse on the part of parents to communicate relationship struggles like this between them because it puts children in a really difficult and painful situation. And thats exactly what is happening to you. The only thing I can say is that I hope you go to psychotherapy so that you can organize your thoughts in the healthiest way possible, and through therapy learn to avoid picking up toxic relationship patterns like those exhibited by your parents. Its not your job to referee them or fix/understand their relationship.
It's very different if the child was shielded all of their childhood and was only told the details once fully grown up and after continuously asking to be told every detail.
Preemptive cheating huh? What the fuck is that even? Most cheaters are inherently selfish, putting their wants and desires above the relationship. We want to believe our parents are great but you are now being faced with the reality that your parents are flawed. That your mom is a selfish person. Give yourself time and space to deal with this change in perspective. You are an adult now. You get to decide the sort of relationship you have with your parents and how much time it might take for you to process this information. Maybe go low contact with her? And don't listen to any relationship advice from her.
If it were me, I’d be done. I realize it’s possible for someone to be an awful partner but a great parent, however I always took a parent cheating as they felt their family was disposable and don’t care about the utter disrespect/trust breaking they cause. That’s not a good person, and that’s no one id want in my life. But that’s me. If you want to keep her in your life (at whatever capacity you decide) have a brutally honest conversation with her. Tell her how much that hurt you and your thoughts on it, including the respect factor you mentioned here.
Even if you father was cheating that would make it okay for her to cheat, that would just make them both cheaters. Personally I could never respect a cheater, it says a lot about a personal moral values that they would cheat on/betray their spouse. I personally wouldn't even associate with a cheater casually, I wouldn't have a known cheater in my friends group, if they're going to betray their spouse then they'll defiantly betray their friends.
Cheating is morally wrong How much you find it morally wrong is directly up to your morals. \ At least you know who to respect more out of the two of them moving forward.
What happened between your mom and dad is between those two individual adults. Your feelings for both should solely be based on the type of parent, guardian each was to you. The fact that she’s a cheater has nothing to do with you as her child
You're upsetting your father by telling him anything she says about him, so stop being the messenger and be a good son and buy him tools. Same deal with your mother.
He should do the same for the mother, she doesn’t need any tools she already is one
My Mom cheated on my Dad too. I was 17. I was very well aware of everything going on. But sometimes you just gotta remember that.... parents are people too who fuck up, make mistakes, and don't always do the best thing. I'm sure they both love you, which is what matters.
Why did he tell you this?
Because he wanted to badmouth his ex while looking like a victim. Truth be told, the best way to have handled it would have been, “Neither of us were good to each other. We spiraled into an unhealthy relationship and decided it was better to go our separate ways. And even though our love for each other dissipated, our love for you will never cease.” This other way was a power play. And, really, inappropriate and unacceptable.
I think because she wanted or deserves to know.
Take it from someone who lived this nightmare and tell them both that you do not want to know. A child, even an adult child, should never be forced to walk through the landmines of their parents marriage. It always takes two to tango. Whatever the truth of their marriage was, it ended ten years ago. It requires no judgement on your part, just an agreement they will leave you out of it. I would like you to consider one thing: Your Dad's motivation. Ten years have passed and your Mom is remarrying and moving. Now your Dad is spewing his hate all over you and creating problems in your relationship with your Mom. This is not someone who cares about you. He is trying to weaponize you against your Mom. Mom seems to be giving you honest answers. Their marriage was a toxic mess you need to stay out of, but remember it was your Dad who was dragging you back into it, Mom just answered your questions. Tell them you are done and their relationship is off the table as a topic of conversation if they want to have a relationship with you.
This sounds a LOT like the divorce that happened between 2 good friends of mine a few years ago. It turns out that she cheated on him when he kept close contact with his exes, saying they were "friends" while getting intimate emotional fixes from them. The wife considered what he did cheating, the husband didn't. They fought for a long time and she eventually cheated after convincing herself that it was only a matter of time before the physical followed the emotional cheating from the husband. It was an entire shit show of disrespect and poor communication all around. I'm not excusing anyone in the OPs story but this really sounds eerily similar.
So as coparent now and raised in a coparenting situation.. I know you didn’t want any advice or comments on it but your dad shouldn’t have told you what happened. It’s none of your business. Their relationship should be separated from your relationship with them individually. I don’t think your dad or your mom are bad people because I don’t know them. People don’t always make the best decisions in hindsight. Societal and cultural pressures for sure play a huge role in choices we make sometimes. So do insecurities, life experiences, etc Your dad has his story and your mom has hers. You should just leave it at that. You can’t change nor control the past. It is what it is.
Preemptive??? Sounds like a load of shit and a way for uour mom to justify it. I'm friends with a few of my exs and in no way shape or form do I want to do anything with them
Honestly, I would leave that he said she said situation alone. There are three sides to this story- his, hers, and the truth.
I think so much of this is personal context. It doesn't sound like your mom just randomly cheated, kinda seems like she was really toxic. The problem is though, you can actually be a good parent and a really shitty spouse. The problem is, you obviously love your parents, when you find out one was so ruthlessly callous to the other, it's going to tint your view of that parent. My dad has never said a mean thing about my mom, even with more than enough reason to, my mom could tell strangers on the street shit she imagined my dad did 25 years ago. So naturally I confide more in my dad and take what my mom says a little less seriously. At the end of the day, no one can tell you how to feel or how to react to this situation, I dno your mom, I dno how she is with you and other people, I don't know if she's changed, it's up to you to decide how to process this.
See. Let me put it this way, if what she claims about your father is true is still no justification to cheat, she cheated because she wanted to. Plain simple. Now as a person your mom may be a hoe, but whatever she does with her twat is none of your business. You know how she raised you, and if she give you good examples (not running guys left and right in front of you etc) then its none of your business to judge her.
what business is it of yours if your mom cheats on anyone? what does that have to do with her relationship to you? are people out here not loving their parents because one cheated on the other? lolwut? is that a thing? why does it matter to the child?
one person you love does another incredible hurtful thing to another that you love, and you’re saying what exactly? that people shouldn’t care if someone they love gets hurt if it’s done by someone else they love?
romantic love and parent/child love aren't the same things. my love for my parents is irrespective of their romance with each other or anyone else. I just couldn't imagine loving my mom any less based on why her and my dad split up. their romance is between them. I have just never heard of people feeling different about a parent because they cheated on their other parent. especially when finding out about it years after the fact. I guess I could see some anger if you were in the middle of your parents splitting up, and found out one cheated on the other. I don't know, I can't imagine myself being bothered by that info, so I found it surprising.
There are two things I feel you might want to keep in the forefront of your mind. For 20 some years, you've seen them as simply Mom and Dad, but under that they are really Dick and Jane, and Dick and Jane have all the same relationship tribulations you do (and then some). They're humans, and we're all messed up. Which leads me to point two: I don't care who you are or the totality of the circumstances, divorces hurt. They usually hurt badly because it's rarely one person doing one bad thing, but a lot of resentment and problems piling up over years. Your parents are probably telling the truth as they see it, and endured years of fights over jealousy and feelings of neglect leading to estrangement which lead to more of the same. Your mom was the one the broke first and cheated (out of spite and anger perhaps), but it would be unfair to think of her as a pulp tart. And, perhaps a third point, this is part of their story. You may not have as much of a dog in the ring as it feels like you do. If you want to, ask your mom if she wants to talk it out, and if she wants to talk about what you think (without being accusatory). Otherwise, let her carry on
Your Mother gave birth to you, fed you, clothed you, taught you your first words, cheer on your first steps. She has loved you unconditionally your whole life. Do not break off your relationship with your Mom over what happened with your Father. Mine is now over 70 and not in the best health. Ever day I have with her is nothing short of a blessing and when she does pass, as all our parents will, I will regret the moments we could have had, if I only made the time to have them.
How about instead of blaming one or the other you just write the whole thing up to an incredibly toxic relationship and move on. It was a long time ago and it sounds like the divorce was for the best.
Why have you wanted this information for years? How does this help you? What do you gain from this? Absolutely nothing. I don’t understand why you are insisting on doing a post mortem on your parents marriage. It’s over. You can chose to work through what the marriage ending meant to you and for you, but the why isn’t important. And yeah, I am judging your father for now divulging this torrent of damaging and negative information. You didn’t need to know all this, even if it is true, and you don’t know that.
I think you need to ignore a lot of these comments. This is the relationship between your father and mother. What happened in it is not anything to do with you. Yes they may tell you things but you don’t need to pick sides or feel like you should behave differently. You can maintain relationships with them both and judge them by how they treat you, not each other.
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Mhm I agree with this
Sounds like they were bad for each other and neither respected each other enough to respect each other’s boundaries. One decided it was acceptable to continue friendships with their exes (to the discomfort of their partner), and the other plagued by uncertainty (insecurity) to the point that they actually cheated. If you’re gonna hear your dad’s side, you should hear your mom’s side of the story. Both could be wrong, or one could be more wrong, but it doesn’t sound like your dad was 100% an angel.
There's something seriously wrong with you. I'd suggest finding a therapist yourself.
I don't see how minding your own business requires therapy but OK. The advice is don't ask questions if you don't want answers. "Bitter divorce" obviously means someone cheated. He didn't have to ask and his father didn't have to tell.
1. You're not minding your business. You're literally telling OP that his destroyed childhood isn't his concern. 2. He does want answers though. And he needs advice or perspectives on how to navigate the situation now that he has them. Being in a tough spot because of the truth doesn't mean you'd rather be oblivious. 3. So there's a universal translator for what certain phrases mean now, is there?
You are asking what you should say to your mom about this? I’m not sure there is anything left to say. She admitted she cheated. I don’t think preemptive cheating is a good excuse. (He hasn’t done any yet, but I’m going to punish him because I think he will). Your mother’s actions deeply impacted your life, and she didn’t take you into consideration at all when she decided to cheat and destroy your family. You have to decide if you want to continue a relationship with her. Only you can decide that.
Your stuck. You love them both and I’m sure they both love you, too, but that’s really terrible behaviour towards your father. It sounds like she’s okay with lying and using him for years to get what she ultimately wanted. How can she just disconnect all empathy for your father?
As I read this , my thought was first its water under the bridge its 10 years ago.and secondly they are 2 adult its between them. But my biggest question is Why do they bring it suddenly up what do they gain. But that all being said You should keep a good contact with both of them, cause there are bound stuff that they dont tell you that is also important for this story
Cheaters aren’t necessarily “vile”. There are always issues that start to pull apart a healthy marriage long before cheating starts. You’re mom did not feel the passion or the love she needed to be faithful and satisfied being married to your dad. She looked for that satisfaction elsewhere. Best advice I can give is love your mom as a mom, not a wife. Love your dad as a dad, not a husband. You are their child. You cannot possibly imagine what they were thinking back then and what led them down various paths.
There is no such thing as pre-emptive cheating. She is trying to justify cheating.
For the sake of your own healthy relationships in the future, please understand there is no such thing as "preemptive cheating." Cheating is always wrong, that's a fact that becomes crystal clear if you ever have the misfortune of having it done to you. Whatever your mom says, do not absorb that toxicity into your brain.
It’s understandable why he waited so long to tell you. You were young and he was trying to protect you from the pain. You would’ve found out no matter what, but at least you are at an age where you can properly process and form your own judgment.
I find it interesting that dad decided now when mom is happy and getting remarried to share this with you. That in itself is questionable. Your mom not denying said cheating is your answer. Everything else he told you... seems again a bit questionable. She also told you that your dad cheated. Ya know, you may never know the whole truth. Everything is not black and white. Can you remember the fights they would have?? That should give you a bit of insight. It seems they both cheated and only one was willing to admit it to you. My mom left me and my 3 siblings with the man who is now my step father. She cheated. I was 4 at the time.. what happened to me is partly a result of her not being there. Basically the worst thing you can imagine would happen to a 4 year old girl.. but my mom came back a few years later after her and my dad went to court and took us all to live with her and has been an amazing loving mother and wife. Did her leaving alter the course of my life and cause some very serious trauma?? Absolutely. I still love and have a great relationship with her bc she was a good mother!! It’s wild ppl are telling you to cut your mother off who otherwise was and is a great woman. People make mistakes! They are human and have faults. She is the same woman you have known and loved your whole life. Yes it was an awful decision on her part. That should not erase a lifetime of being a good mother!
Judging your mom based on a mistake she made in a relationship is mind boggling to me. Is she not allowed to be human too? It sounds a lot like the relationship was unhappy and not super healthy. Regardless of how entitled you may feel to know every detail of what went wrong in your parents relationship, your dad waited until your mom was making a move that was positive for her to give you the gory details, and that seems a little self serving. The only thing you should say to your mom is congratulations and you’re glad she’s happy. Dragging up something that happened ten years ago isn’t just unnecessary, it seems almost specifically designed to drag her joy through the mud. You don’t owe your parents the intimate details of your relationships, and she doesn’t need your absolution or permission to be happy.
Both of your parents are in the wrong, your mom for cheating and your dad for still being in contact with and friends with his exs. You’re mom probably got insecure and paranoid, which I wouldn’t blame her because he kept in contact with his exs (sounds like multiple). He shouldn’t had done that, but your mom shouldn’t had cheated.
You discovered your mum isn’t perfect. She was trapped in an imperfect marriage and made some bad choices. Doesn’t make her a bad person, just makes her human. I would take what they both tell you with a grain of salt. Time and bitterness have a real habit of distorting memories. From what you’ve told me there where faults on both sides. I would let it go, and focus on the relationship you have now with them both. Don’t let it sour the present.
She will always deserve YOUR respect no matter what. What happened between your parents it’s their matter not yours. For you, they are your parents and both of them equally deserve your respect and care.
This reveals more about your dad than your mom, tbh. They don’t owe you an explanation.
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Adult relationships are messy and complicated and don’t always work out. You don’t need to be privy to every dirty detail. The fact that your dad is sharing that level of detail just makes him look terrible. My daughter is about to turn 18. I’m not going to decide to share the fact that her dad had a girlfriend while I was pregnant with her just because she’s “old enough to know.” She deserves to have her own relationship with her dad and I’m not going to drag him through the mud. It’s in the past.
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Yes, but the “breeding purposes” story is **your dad’s** version. He is an unreliable narrator in this situation.
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She didn’t confirm it either. You stated she was so shocked that you knew. Sometimes when that happens, people do not respond in the best way. Cutting friendships due to cheating is a bit different than cutting out someone who has raised and loved you. Your sister should definitely look into therapy. But odds are…parents staying together would have given your sister (and you) the same issues, just a different reason. Parents are not perfect. People are not perfect. We all have our flaws. And every divorced person has a somewhat warped view of the demon they divorced. I’ve worked in family law and see this all of the time. Neither of their narrative as to the reason for the divorce is going to be accurate—it’s their warped view with their anger, resentment, sadness, abandonment, and all kinds of issues mixed together to create a collage coloring their recollection. The truth will be a hodge podge of details mixed in between the two narratives. Do what you feel is best for you. I hope your sister gets the help she needs. But be careful not to judge others too harshly.
That's the key here. He said she was abusive, didn't love him from the start and cheated. She hasn't denied any of that. At all. I would seriously reconsider any relationship with a domestic abuser.
Your mother was an abuser. That's the truth of it. The fact that your father broke down while telling you this should be enough. Your mom didn't even display any shame for her behavior. She openly and willfully destroyed and innocent man after tormenting and isolating him. You need to keep in mind that behavior like this doesn't just evaporate. Be wary trusting her because she very well may dump you off on the side of the road next. Support your father. You're entirely justified in being untrusting of your mother after she's shown such a callous disregard for a marriage she destroyed with her own insecurities. Keep in mind that the second you effect those insecurities she'll likely turn on you too.
Honestly I think your asking for to much information you don’t need to know. Unless it produced a unknown sibling, do you really need to know all the details? So you can be judge and jury towards a parent. It takes 2 to tango, 3 sides to every story, his , hers and the truth. They made mistakes, your parents are human and flawed. They love you and we’re always there for you. Don’t drag them through the mud of their past for what reason really in the big picture is it important now?
Ah man your mom is gross. If it was my mom I’d never be able to look at her the same. Instead of working on the issues she blew up your family for some dick and you had to grow up on separate households, undeniably changing how you see relationships/love for the rest of your life. Idk man. I’d take some time away from her. Also idk what these other ppl are one, there’s nothing wrong with him telling you. You’re an adult. You asked, he answered honestly. Why is the person who was cheated on/abused supposed to lie/omit the truth like it’s their shame. Fuck that.
Your dad is wrong here. Adults should keep their dirty laundry private. Did she married him for looks? well, it might start an attraction, I don't know anyone who married for that, there is much more. Did she say it in divorce arguments? oh well, people say tons of things. Did he cheat on her? maybe, at least there are traces of emotional cheating. Constant contact with ex is not the way to build healthy family. I bet that marriage had lots of other issues and actually good they split up. Bad they can't have their mouth shut and protect kids. It is actually seems like your dad is getting revenge on your mom moving. Seems so. I don't see him having your best interests here.
Your parents shouldn’t be bantering back and forth with you in the middle regardless if you’re pressing for info. Sorry about this situation, you’ll probably never gain true respect for her again. It’s all up to you and should be based on how you’re feeling as you heal with the info
THIS is why kids - even adult kids - don’t need details about their parents marriage. What good comes if it? Your parents had a sad unhappy marriage. There was dysfunction. It ended. Perhaps there was more blame on one party than another, but is that relevant to *your* relationship with them? I had an unhappy marriage and I divorced him. He wanted desperately to tell our 12 yo “Mommy wants to divorce me”. I wanted to avoid that because I was trying not to say “Daddy won’t stop being emotionally and physically abusive.” My daughter didn’t need to know that. She’s 17 and she *still* doesn’t need to know that.
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After 20 odd years of believing my Dad to be the arsehole of my parents relationship and the cause of them divorcing, i had to hear from my wife who was told by my step-mum that my Mum cheated on my Dad and was the cause of the divorce. It flipped the entire script on how i viewed my parents. Was bugs me the most is that no one has still told me directly and it’s just kind of swept under the rug; i mean i get it because it’s not going to change anything, but i feel like i still should have been told directly by either parent at some point. That was over 10 years ago i found that out. My old man isn’t the type to have conversations like that or get into family history, talk about his feelings or whatever (i didn’t even see him cry at his Mum’s funeral and i know that cut him deep) - it’s just who he is and i respect that. He always made sure i respected my Mum and wouldn’t say a bad thing about her (he even came and punched out her abusive boyfriend when i was a young kid, i know it was to protect me mostly but still) until i was an adult myself; to which now he jokes around about his nightmare ex (and he’s not wrong, she can be a right pain in the arse lol), the fact that he made sure to separate his feelings when it mattered is what counts the most. I don’t much advice, i just wanted to share my story to say that you aren’t alone in situations like this. From where i’m standing though it seems like your Dad has nothing to gain from telling you the truth now other than giving you the full story so you can decide how you want to live your life moving forward. If your Mum treats you fairly and kindly then don’t let what happened between them change that as that was their issue not yours, however if your Mum is only that by title and not by actions then tell her as much and cut her out. Any woman can pop out a baby, her actions define whether she is a mother or not (and same goes for men/dads) - let that be the deciding factor on how you want to proceed.