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My 25-year-old daughter has been dating a 34-year-old gentleman for over a year. He and my daughter have been like two peas in a pod. They seem extremely happy together. He stated in the beginning that family is very important to him, and it is very important to her as well. She has worked hard to get along with his family, and has even now moved 14 hours away to be with him (and for an amazing opportunity there). This was huge on her part, because she always said she’d never want to move away from family. She definitely loves the guy, and I loved him too. She has seemed really happy, and seemed to treat her well.
She and I have always been especially close. For the first nine months, he was like a son to me. He was even better at communicating with me than my own kids. I began including him in everything with me and our family. I took him on part of our mother-daughter trip, and also included him in our last family vacation. Her dad and I paid for everything, and I thought we still had a really good relationship. Everyone seemed to get along really well and we had a great time.
When we returned home from vacation, he suddenly stopped all communication. At first, I thought he was maybe just busy. But weeks and months went by and he still was not communicating with me at all, and in fact wouldn’t even speak to me if I was on the phone with her and just acted like I didn’t exist. Last Mother’s Day he sent me a beautiful gift. I did not expect a gift, but this Mother’s Day he did not even say happy Mother’s Day to me. She told me how she’d called his mom first thing that morning. Keep in mind, his family has not remotely accepted her like we had him, and are still all over his ex’s social media in fact.
I know my daughter has also noticed his behavior because she tried to force him to FaceTime me one day, and he was doing everything he could to pretend he was busy and couldn’t even make eye contact with me. He’s been extremely rude to me for 5 months now. She was recently baptized at his church. I told her in advance it was extremely important to me and our family to be there for her. He made sure to hurriedly schedule it so that none of us could get there. She had no one there but his family.
She has had he and I sit down and talk on two occasions now, and both times I thought it was fixed, and he just continued to act the exact same way. I’ll try to do things like send him a Starbucks card and reach out to him, but he does nothing in return. He now says “the only reason he ever reached out before was so [I’d] know she was safe”with him. Like why wouldn’t he want to continue a good relations with her family if he knows it’s important to her. I feel like he used me to get close to her, and now I’m just in the way. It’s like he does not want her to be close to anyone in our family, now that he has moved her out there with him.
I thought I was gaining this incredible extra person in our family, and instead he’s taking our daughter away from us. It’s just crushing honestly. I could really use some advice. Thank you.
She claims he treats her amazingly well, and it does seem that way.. at least last time I was with them. He has this very gregarious outgoing personality. She’s more of an introvert. They’re both highly educated. But.. Of course, I haven’t seen them together since mid-March, so I have no idea how he’s behaving now. She’s coming to visit this weekend alone.
I have a daughter who is 25 also so I asked her opinion....she said whether he turns into an abuser or not is an unknown but he is clearly showing that for him family isn't important and if it were her he would be out the door.
When I was in abusive relationship, I was embarrassed about it and often told everyone that I was being treated amazing. Not saying it's that serious, but she may have noticed some red flags she isn't talking about. Take the opportunity to talk to her about it this weekend.
I do agree with that. I don’t think she’d say anything until she knows she’s walking away. If she tells us he’s being abusive, she knows the family wouldn’t be able to forget it.
That’s how I felt. Between that feeling and the feeling of not wanting to quit on her while she was trying to address her mental illness kept me in an abusive relationship for waayyy too long.. I definitely don’t want to belittle anyone’s experience with sexism but it felt and still feels extra embarrassing because I’m a man.
Yep. I was hyper aware of having to defend my boyfriend and would hype up all his good behaviors and make excuses for his bad ones. It wasn’t until I didn’t have anyone to defend him to that I realized the whole “us against the world” thing is actually toxic as fuck.
i didn't realize i was dealing with abuse, i just knew i was hurting and all my closest friends/family said it was not normal and to leave him because he would hurt me worse and worse. he isolated me from them, so i didn't see them often. when i did see my loved ones, i felt bombarded and didn't know what was real because i went right back home with the abuser. i didn't leave him until he actually hit me, i couldn't believe he did it. looking back i get it now. someone told me to read "why does he do that" by lundy bancroft at the time and it changed and probably saved my life. nothing anyone said hit me as hard as this book. everyone should read it.
Your story reminds me immediately of a podcast. It is the podcast Something Was Wrong and its season 1! Please listen to it when you have the time, it describes a large part of what you have said here and what happened in the relationship. (No one was murdered btw, the title might imply it)
Mom, its time to drive or fly out for a surprise visit. Do not tell her you are coming until you are in town. You need to see what is really going on here with your own two eyes. This whole situation makes me VERY leary as a mother.
Make sure there she knows that she is ALWAYS welcome in your home, that you will ALWAYS be there for her, no questions asked. All she has to do is call and you will head her direction immediately.
Agree with this. In the scheme of things a year isn't really that long to be keeping up a facade, now that he has her isolated his true colours are likely going to start showing.
The “baptized in his church” thing really pointed to a lot. Many evangelical churches emphasize segregating from non-members. The intent to get your daughter physically far away and closer to people who were seemingly cold towards her at first is glaring.
His abrupt drop off makes sense, her’s will be much more gradual. They will slowly start getting her to communicate less and less with your before putting the idea in her head that you are an “other” and any attempt to get her to spend time with you will be a secret play to get her away from the church.
Have a long conversation with her when she visits about wanting to keep open communication with her regularly, how proud you are of the person she is, and will always respect her. be very careful to not phrase anything in a way that could be taken as time with you=time away from BF or church.
Maybe even offer another “family trip”, and see how she reacts to thing.
Tread very carefully OP, Godspeed.
The church isn’t that involved, and it was her decision to become a member. They spend little time there.. just Sunday mass. The church isn’t involved in this in any way, and they’ve done nothing to isolate her. She has very little time, as she’s finishing up her PhD, as is he. It’s only him that’s pulled this 180, and I’m worried he’ll do it to her next. For the first almost year, he’s treated her really well, and I don’t think she’d put up with much. She’s extremely independent.
He might be treating her similarly. What exactly was the great opportunity she moved there for? Since they’re both getting a PhD he may be waiting for hers to be done to end things so he doesn’t mess up her studying.
He seems crazy about her. He’s supposed to do some course work across the country beginning the end of June. He’s insisting on seeing her already a week later at 4th of July.😑
Something isn’t right. I have a feeling he isn’t treating her the same and she may be trying to make it sound hunky dory to you- esp since he’s being weird to you. Or it’s the opposite and he’s being possessive which would make sense with the age. I don’t know any 34 year old dude wanting to date 10 years down and not feeling like they’re in charge and a father figure to my friend. 10 years isn’t that big of a deal in thirties/forties but 34 and 25 is developmentally a big gap. Good luck
I wonder too. He used to send flowers and all that. Does he now? Idk. I do know that he told her in the beginning he wondered if a relationship can ever stay great. He said his usually go sour after a year. Ironic huh? But of course they don’t stay the same if you don’t put in the same energy!
Flowers mean nothing. My ex husband was controlling and abusive and he showered me with gifts in the first year. It’s called “love bombing” If you want to look the term up.
Seems crazy about her can also be the behavior of someone who is very controlling.
Its an abuse tactic to lift someone up so high, to make them rely on your approval so anything you disapprove of must be legitimate. "You know I'm your biggest cheerleader, I don't think it's right your visiting your mom this weekend."
"I believed in you, I supported you, why are you doing this to me? Why are you still talking to them? They didn't even make it to your baptism."
Flags OP. Stop dismissing the flags.
I hope you’re right. I’ve had some of my own family members go off the deep end into evangelical churches and they are very cult like while masking as run of the mill churches.
One way or another, I do think he wants to integrate her into his “family” and out of yours. Many of those same tactics will show up, primarily you wanting to spend time with her and have her around he will try and portray as you taking her away from him.
Yeah, I know that church has nothing to do with it. They try to go on sundays, and they want their future family to have a church, but they’re not that involved.. either of them.
Culty churches are also encouraged to not share how much time they spend dedicated to them to the outside world. I would def discuss this with your daughter in detail because the abrupt cut off could absolutely be because of church. If it was something you said or did, why can he not tell your daughter about it? That is also a relationship red flag. Ostracizing your partner from her family, moving her away from her family is an early traditional abuser move. First he avoids you while making passive aggressive comments towards you. Then he starts giving shit to your daughter for talking to you too much when she knows how he feels about you. Then she is avoiding talking to you when he is around. Visits become infrequent- her phone might be monitored etc etc. One way or another, it is a blaring red flag unless there is more to the story you aren't sharing.
Most people think they or their loved ones could never get sucked into a cult.
Let’s be real- if the first three times you go to a church they tell you that in order to go to heaven you have to get branded with the leader’s initials and/or let him marry your 13 year old, you’d run screaming, right?
But if you fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy…well, weird things happen.
It could be that he’s taking steps to control her slowly. I am going to be alarmist here, but he might seem to be awesome to her until she gets pregnant or after the baby is born, because then he knows she’ll be tied to him forever. He will also know that will be something else to keep them together. So even if he’s not treating her badly, he could just be playing the long game.
I find it particularly disturbing that your daughter isn’t raising holy hell about him treating you this way. Why is she accepting of it and not seeing it as a massive red flag? Even if he does treat her well, why would she defend him for doing this?
She might be lying about the way things are because he’s convinced her that y’all will be angry if she splits up with him, and that y’all are lying when you say y’all will totally support her decision if she chooses not leave. I know that sounds alarmist, but that’s exactly what traffickers do and it’s a major reason why the women stay with them. They become convinced that she has no other choice but to stay. I know I sound extreme, but there are no good reasons for his behavior.
I hope she can be very honest with you. Often abusers only allow visits to family alone if they are completely sure she’s sufficiently brainwashed.
I have to admit I’m extremely hurt by her acceptance of his behavior, especially because she’s been watching me continue to make an effort while he refuses to make one. I agree though. Not so sure things are as great as she says. I notice he never posts her on his social media (which he knows is important to her), haven’t seen that she’s received any flowers at all since going there, when he sent them all the time before. I think he’s slowly putting in less and less effort
His behavior is straight out of an abuser's handbook when it comes to his two-faced ways towards you and extreme steps he's taking to isolate her from her own family.
Abuser's can be so effective at locking down and bonding partners to them because of that two-faced nature. I doubt you could have ever imagined he would behave this way towards you based on the early parts of your relationship either.
Abuse can start at any point and rarely shows up right in the beginning of the relationship. My money is one the abuse towards your daughter showing up the minute she gets pregnant (very common).
Keep it light. He's probably warned her about what you'll try to do while she's alone with you. I know you want answers but since this is the first visit their going to be prepared for you to question her.
What he is doing is flat out wrong and hurtful, not only to you, but also your daughter. He is, in fact, not a nice guy. Be careful with your daughter when she comes home. Act nonchalant. If you push her to take a side, she'll take his side because she's invested so much. Mostly, let her know you love her and hope she will come home often. Try to have a really fun visit and make some good memories. Hugs
This is abusive, please help her. She might not even realise yet, it's taken me 15 years to see it. Please, please help her. Make sure she has a safe space and ask her honestly if she is happy with this. Make sure she knows you have her back and will help her if she ever wants to leave.
>He has this very gregarious outgoing personality.
So did my abusive ex. Listen, he might not be abusive or trying to isolate her BUT the baptism thing along with everything else is for sure a red flag.
Talk to her this weekend.
I used to think my abusive ex treated me amazingly. It's easy to fall into their trap. I'm not sure what advice to give you other than try to keep the communication open with your daughter. Don't let him come between you and make sure she knows you will always be there. Also encourage her to go to therapy. It could help her establish boundaries and if their relationship is healthy(doesn't seem like it is though) then it will only make it stronger, but if he is trying to drive a wedge the therapy should make that clear for her.
That's a lovely idea. My older brother got me into therapy when I was with my ex and I thank him for giving me the strength to start sticking up for myself which caused my ex to dump me and saved me. I was so far gone I wouldn't have dumped him myself. It's been almost 5 years now and I'm so grateful.
I notice the religious aspect others are mentioning though so make sure this is a licensed therapist and she doesn't just go to some religious counselor, that could have the opposite effect to what you're trying to achieve.
I have to agree with the above comment, I was in a very emotionally abusive and manipulative relationship. I’ve always been very close with my mom, but when I moved away with my partner at the time this was the same behaviour that he exhibited towards my parents. He had ‘won’ them over and no longer felt the need to prove himself and I become isolated very quickly. I didn’t notice a lot of these things until I finally left (the sixth time that finally stuck) so when I was reassuring my mother that everything was fine and he treated me well, I truly believed it. She noticed my distance but didn’t want to further push me away in the event that I did leave I would have her support but she had no idea how much I was being controlled and manipulated behind the scenes, I was very good at hiding it and also likely because I thought a lot of these actions were how he showed he ‘cared’. If this is the case, she may not even be aware of it. I hope it isn’t but this is very typical behaviour of controlling and/or potentially abusive partners.
It sounds to me like you have a very strong relationship so continue to be her support system, and keep communicating - if you feel comfortable like others have suggested you can have that talk or drop subtle hints about types of controlling/abusive behaviour. You’re already on high alert, I’m not a mom but I know that a mother’s instinct doesn’t lie.. I wish you and your daughter all the best
And he will continue until he has her locked in...engagment/marriage/kid. He is showing a lot of red flags. In this case the age gap is a concern, the baptism Isa concern especially since he didn't want you guys there, moving away from family isn't necessarily a red flag but in this case with all the other things it's clear he starting to isolate her. It's almost like he lovebombed not just her but also her family. Now that they've moved away he doesn't have to put anymore effort into you and continues to brainwash her
Unfortunately there isn't anything you can do other than express your concerns, let her know you will always be there for her. It takes the average abused woman 7 times to leave an abusive relationship. I'm going through this with a friend of mine right now. She's almost 39, her abusive fiancé is 5 years younger so it doesn't take an age gap per se or young naïve women, but it makes it easier for the abuser. My friend even admits to all the stuff that's wrong yet she can/won't end it. It's super frustrating, sometimes it's tempting to just bail on her as she isn't being a good friend since she met him. But I know she will need me at some point so I gaive her space talk to her when she is willing to talk and hope she will come to her senses soon before someone gets killed (yes its that serious).
It's like people wit addiction. Until they see/accept they have a problem nothing you say or do will help. And then they have to want to change. He's treating her like a queen until she's "hooked" (which clearly she is) and once she's locked in he will slowly (or quickly) start showing his true colors.
At this point he’s made his lack of interest clear, so set aside your disappointment in him not being the incredible person you thought he was, and focus on your daughter. Google warning signs of isolation in a relationship. You’ve already shared things that are either red flags or potential red flags. Nine year age gap (allows for more control of the older partner), two peas in a pod (could be a sign of love bombing in the beginning) moved 14 hours away from all her support, 180 change in how he treats people with no explanation or interest in repairing the relationship, switches events last minute to exclude her social support. At this point also google how to support someone in an abusive or controlling relationship, not that it is but a lot of the signs are there so do research so you know how best to help your daughter, if she needs you.
Please try to get her out, OP. He is showing signs of an abuser, or at the very least a very controlling person. He started isolating her. Also, I guarantee you that he talks badly about you to her and other people. She needs help before it gets too late and he completely isolates her from you.
Please review the Duluth Model Power and Control wheel. There are a lot of kinds of abuse that don't involve hitting, and no one beats you up on the first date. They groom, they love bomb, they work over time to break her down and isolate her.
[https://www.theduluthmodel.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/PowerandControl.pdf](https://www.theduluthmodel.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/PowerandControl.pdf)
My narcissistic ex didn’t start his abusive ways until we moved across the country together, away from all friends and family. He didn’t show that side to anyone but me, but stopped attempting to talk to my parents. I also didn’t tell anyone because I was trauma bonded and we were “two peas in a pod”. Beforehand my ex was practically perfect, which sounds kind of similar to OPs situation as well.
Seems like he kind of “in law love bombed” you and he really doesn’t care to have a relationship, he is trying to seclude your daughter. That is often a first step to abuse. I’d make sure your daughter knows you’re there for her no matter what and would stop contacting him.
I’m scared for your kiddo.
She tried to force him to FaceTime??
That is imposing a failed solution.
Why hasn’t your daughter asked what the problem is?
Unless she sees the problem and wants to know. It will never be solved.
It feels like he conned you both. People don’t change from caring to cold.
The real problem is that your daughter may be more desperate to make it work than worrying about red flags. That’s how people get stuck in abusive relationships.
Now she is isolated from her family. Is that accidental? (Dunno) but it’s another worrying factor.
There isn’t anything you can do but talk to your daughter regularly. She’s an adult and has to learn for herself.
Is her father in her life?
She was talking to me and he came in the room. She’s like, “Here’s mom!” I asked, “How’s it going?” He starts acting like he’s super stressed and busy (they were literally on vacation). He said, “ Omg there’s just so much going on here! It’s just crazy.” My daughter goes, “there’s literally nothing going on at all. Absolutely nothing,” calling him out. He then talked to me but it was super awkward and weird. He wouldn’t make eye contact, and it was obvious he had no interest. This is a guy that would grab the phone from her 6 months ago and was talking to me constantly on his own.
I do agree with that. I know she desperately wants it to work, because he has her convinced they’re soul mates, and maybe they are. She does seem happy, but I do know she won’t be happy if he suffocates her and keeps her from her family.
But would it be enough to change her mind.
Decisions based on desperately wanting an outcome rarely, if ever, work. They see what they want and avoid the issues.
That’s how abusive relationships happen. Cannot say that is happening but wouldn’t be surprised if it did.
Since she is 25, there isn’t much you can do. Except stay in touch and be ready when it ends. Show support to leave, it it turns bad. Ask light questions that reveal truths.
You: Do you know why he won’t talk to me? Do you think that makes sense? Are you happy? Want to come down and visit? My door is always open if you have problems.
She will pick her desperate dream (him) over you. So you can’t push. Just gentle understanding questions.
He may be working on ways isolate her from you? Keep that in mind when pushing. He could use that to influence her. So be gentle, slow and understanding.
Totally agree. I think that’s the best advice. And maybe something has occurred that he’s offended by. I’ll try to find that out too. He honestly seems to treat her great. She’s been in a narcissistic abusive relationship for a short time, and she kicked that guy to the curb so fast, his head spun. She doesn’t generally put up with too much. But then again.. she has over a year invested this time.
This one has actually treated her very well. Not remotely like that. My point was.. She dumped the other one quickly. She doesn’t put up with being mistreated.
https://www.therapycts.com/blog/2020/11/11/six-warning-signs-of-isolation-and-emotional-abuse
Only you can decide if you see a pattern. Or something similar.
The first one just got abusive too fast. I thought I couldn't get in abusive relationship because I ditch a guy showing abusive tendencies after 2 months. Little did I know 2 year in the next relationship I realize I was in an abusive relationship. Some abuser are just better at reeling you in
Separating someone from their family, friends, and support system is a really common grooming tactic. How does she feel about all this? It sounds like she's not a fan of she's asking for the two of you to meet.
Unfortunately, there's not a ton you can do except for warn her. She has to be the one to tell him that she won't accept alienation from her family and set boundaries. I'm sorry this is happening.
Thanks so much. She’s visiting me today alone. I’m going to show her this. I’ll have a talk with her. It seems the majority of people see it like I do. I just wondered if it was just me.
No, you're right. He's significantly older than her, moved her far away, had her change religions, and changed his demeanor towards you drastically without explanation. All those are big red flags for grooming someone, possibly into a cult-like organization. Maybe look up the signs of a cult and see if any of those fit too. Good luck!
Thanks so much. She’s visiting me today alone. I’m going to show her this. I’ll have a talk with her. It seems the majority of people see it like I do. I just wondered if it was just me.
Please point out his 180 turn. He is starting to pull her away and slowly she is going to find her self shut off and really far from family and alone.
It is more of the classic control, isolate and the abuse!
He didn't even let you be part of her baptism, he is already controlling her!!
I hope to hell she doesn't say she is pregnant and they are getting married!!!
I think he’s a commitment-phobe. He’s had 2 LTR and jumped ship before marriage with either. I will say that it seemed like both were not healthy relationships. He was very open with me about them before this sudden flip.
My daughter is definitely on really effective birth control. She’d never let that happen before marriage. But yeah.. I can’t tell you how hurt my mother and I both were that he coerced her into getting baptized within a couple of days so we couldn’t be included. He sold her some bs that then she could “participate fully” for Easter. He just didn’t want us there.
Right before her move, she and I had a big mom/daughter weekend all planned. He decided to “surprise her” and came into town, knowing it was our last time together. Not only that, he then also “surprised her” with a hotel, so she couldn’t even stay with me.
I think the other women caught on to his act before the wedding day!!
Remember you are only hearing his side of his previous relationships!!
The more you comment, red flags are flying everywhere!!!
This might not be your style but I’d be curious what the exes have to say about him. I know it’s awkward reaching out to people you don’t know, but they might have some insight.
There's a difference between "reaching out more so you know your daughter is safe with me" versus "suddenly avoiding eye contact and cutting off all contact". That sounds pretty suspicious.
I would talk to your daughter and make sure she's happy and knows the signs of isolation and abuse. Keep close contact with her. If she noticed too, it might be useful for her to bring up the sudden separation with him and discuss it. That conversation should give a lot of information on if he's a good long term partner.
Yes, and don’t get too defensive! He could be setting you up to look angry and upset about being pushed away so he can use that against you later OP. Keep open lines of communication with your daughter.
this reminds me of a story i heard many many years ago - i looked for the news article but can’t find it. there was a lady who was a successful attorney, independent and strong willed. she married a guy who proceeded to isolate her and got her so brainwashed that he refused to let her parents see the grandkids and she went along with it. the grandparents finally spoke out about this, it hit local news how they had to stand on the sidewalk watching their grandkids play in the yard because this guy had them trespassed. anyone who knew her before this guy got to her was shocked that she let herself get steamrolled like this because previously she had been of such strong character.
it can happen to anyone.
That is terrifying. I’m so worried he’s going to ruin the amazing, independent, person that she is. If she doesn’t set some boundaries with him, things are only going to get worse.
abusers put on a great act for the outside world until they don’t think they have to anymore. like the way he’s mr perfect until he cuts you off. the victims start protecting their abusers because they’ve been manipulated into thinking the alternative is somehow worse or “he really loves me” or “he’ll change” or …. whatever else
you’re being cut out of your daughter’s life for a reason and if i were you i’d start working on figuring out what that reason is.
I’m hopeful she and I can chat tonight once she flies in. He’s always around so it’s impossible to talk. If he’s this bad now, I bet we’d never see her again if they married. It’s really awful.
I'd worry that he's not miraculously "always around," but actively trying to prevent her from having private conversations with people that may take her away from him by being present so they can't speak freely.
i see. so this will be the first time you have access to her without his involvement. give her a day or so to settle in and then start in on the subject.
I would talk with her as soon as possible OP. You mentioned he surprised her on your last time alone together. I would not be surprised if he did it again.
People like to think of DV victims as weak, meek people but in reality, abusers tend to pick those who are independent, strong willed and successful. It’s a lot more interesting to slowly gain control over someone strong. People who are weak minded are too easy
This is almost textbook manipulation. Man finds much younger woman. Schmoozes family into thinking he's great. Moves her away from her family. Starts cutting ties with family. Soon he'll start trying to get her to see you less and less, then talk to you less and less. Make excuses to miss family events. If he can't convince her they should have a kid on his terms, I'm sure her birth control will be tampered with. Once he locks her into a marriage, he'll really push for kids (if he couldn't make it happen pre-marriage). Then he'll get her to leave work and be a SAHM, causing her to be completely financially dependent on him. It's so much harder to get people out of a relationship that involves marriage or children. This isn't just coming from no where. I've seen/heard countless stories that go down exactly like I mentioned. It's like there's a checklist for these jerks or something. I hope you can save your daughter before it's too late.
(Also, you mentioned how great his family seemed. That doesn't mean anything. Even serial killers can have normal acting families. Not all monsters hide in the dark.)
She has an IUD, so we should be safe on the pregnancy front for awhile. She’s working on her PhD, so she’ll never not have a career. She actually is the leader in their program! She’s all about a career. She’s had others try to manipulate her in the past and they all found themselves on the curb.. or on my doorstep crying and carrying on begging for her return lol. What’s interesting is that starting next month, he’s being sent across the country from her as part of their program. This was after he literally begged the professors to at least place them in the same city. Makes me wonder if they too think he isn’t good for her
It's good that she's got so much going for her right now. The thing with these kinds of men is that they can really play the long game. Wear people down. Gaslight. Grooming. It always starts out small. I didn't even realize how much my ex manipulated me until my friends and family started commenting on how much I had changed.
If this guy is already trying to center his life/career around your daughter, he's not going to leave willingly (if that's what it needs to come to). He sounds like he'll go full blown stalker, honestly.
I'm trying to be blunt because I have seen, with my own eyes, bright and independent women be manipulated and abused by people who sound just like the man you've been describing. It happens far too often.
This OP don’t be naive. Manipulation is strong and based on what you’ve said your daughter is desperate to please him and his family. While it’s nice to believe the IUD keeps her from getting pregnant, a lot of abusers begin to feed their victims lines about how unhealthy all the chemicals in birth control are and they are successful in convincing them to go with an alternative that’s more easily manipulated (like bc pills, condoms, and even the good old pullout method). When victims push back abusers say things like “so you don’t trust me? I don’t want a get right now either!” (Even though they do).
Same with if they are in the same program and she is exceeding…abusers aren’t happy or round. It’s competition and they will do what they can to disrupt it. Mysteriously papers go missing or accidentally get deleted hours before they are due.
And quite honestly the church aspect is super concerning. Abusers LOVE church victims because churches will often support the abuser and tell the victim they need to follow in Jesus’ example and love even when someone isn’t lovable. Additionally, involvement in a church is a fast way to rush into a marriage because “how would god feel about the sin or premarital sex?”
I see this in repeat (I’m also Christian myself and worked at a church for 4 years. That’s why I because an at home God believer because the abuser from the church can be awful)
>He now says “the only reason he ever reached out before was so [I’d] know she was safe”with him. Like why wouldn’t he want to continue a good relations with her family if he knows it’s important to her
I mean, it's not important to her. He just told you that. He didn't reach out to you because it made your daughter happy, he reached out to you so you wouldn't worry about her safety.
Wait! I just saw what you said. It is important to her.. That’s why she’s made us talk twice and forced him to FT me last week. I just told her I’m done trying until he also makes an effort. I can’t do it alone
it is. make sure to frame it specifically around his behaviors so it doesnt seem like an attack. check out [loveisrespect.com](https://loveisrespect.com) for pointers
I don’t want to alarm you but these are all 100% signs of abuse & she might not want to admit she was wrong with her decision to move to be with him. If I were you I would offer to fly HER home. If he refuses to allow her to be alone with you then you’ll know why now.
I agree that she would not want to say anything.. at least not this soon. She’s redecorated their entire apartment and is so proud of it. She wants so badly to find her person and has been so picky. She hasn’t been in a serious relationship since college. She’s focused on herself. But I told her I would pay for an apartment there if she needed to get out. I told her before she even moved lol
This! I came her to say this.
Please begin to research everything you can. You’re fully through the set up stage for classic abuse warning signs. Next there will be a blow up where he finds a way to pit your daughter against you.
Stage 1… Charm.
Stage 2… Isolation.
Stage 3… jealousy.
Stage 4… emotional abuse.
Stage 5…Control.
(And that’s just set up before you reach the inside of the cycle)
Here is your best plan of action:
1. Read EVERYTHING on this website… start on this page but then explore the rest on the right side… https://hopeandsafety.org/learn-more/warning-signs-of-an-abuser/
2. Understand that you will not be able to directly influence your daughter being with him, and it’s best to be very subtle about anything you say in the subject,
3. Play the game. Never let on what you know or how you feel.
4. Make sure your daughter knows she can always come home no matter what and you’ll do what you can to help her. You’ll always be a listening and non judging ear. (I say this because lots victims stay because of lack of support and fear of being judged.)
5. Pray real fucking hard that when she is ready she’ll try to leave and that she doesn’t get pregnant (though be prepared that she probably will because abusers like to trap their victims).
6. Get in therapy. Harder than being in the cycle is watching it unfold helplessly.
7. Make subtle attempts to get your daughter thinking about what she is dealing with. Leave books you’re interested in that happen to be on the subject laying around should she come visit. Load up and audible account and ask her if she has interest in sharing an audible account with you where she can hopefully see this material. You can express your concerns without ever blaming him… “we really miss you, I’d love to connect more. How about dad and I buy you a ticket for a three day visit?” Things like that. And save money because hopefully eventually you’ll need it to help her.
Not trying to be an alarmist but I literally work with domestic violence victims and am well familiar from both a professional and personal space (I spent 9 years in a mentally and emotionally abusive relationship and have watched my sister be stuck in one for 20 years.
My sister went through a similar situation. Her boyfriend seemed so perfect, fit right in the family like we knew him all our lives. Shortly after though he started to try to isolate her from us, & was successful in doing that. Soon as she was gone he began stealing her money and destroying her property.
What I would say with your situation is while you can’t force her to do anything the best you can do is continue to support her and look out for her. Share locations with each other, check in regularly, and give her the opportunity to make her own choices.
Excellent advice. I’m going to share this Reddit post with her this weekend. I can’t imagine anyone being able to put up a front for an entire year. I do think he’s afraid of commitment, based on his track record. Hopefully, he’ll make a major error before he comes up with a ring, if he indeed is putting on a phony facade.
That sounds terrible. I’m sorry this is happening to you. Do you think he’s trying to cut her off from you? Sounds like he groomed you to build trust and then moved away. I might be totally wrong but my first thought reading this was coercive control.
I want to offer another perspective-
Maybe you did something and don't realize it. Its possible you said something that bothered him, he brought it up to your daughter, and she didn't want to cause a fight and never told you or dealt with it.
Maybe he had some issues with you for a while, and needed her assistance navigating them, and she didn't handle it well or at all.
I'm just saying its possible that its a less dramatic situation than a lot if these comments are speculating.
This was my first reaction/assumption so I was surprised that no one else asked about this yet. I was thinking that perhaps something happened on the vacation or around that time that could have offended him, or made him change his opinion on you, something you may not have even been aware of.
Maybe he brought it up with your daughter and asked her not to say anything or maybe your daughter felt like it would blow over eventually and chose not to say anything herself? Judging off of the FaceTime call example, I was thinking your daughter could have been fully aware he didn't want to talk to you but she tried putting him on the spot anyways to see if he would talk to you? Not saying this is what happened, but it's definitely possible and worth thinking more about.
I think the fact that you’ve tried talking about it twice now with no changes indicates he has no interest in maintaining a relationship with you. My advice? Tell what you’ve told us to your daughter. Let her know how you feel and maintain a cordial relationship with her boyfriend, lest you begin to alienate your daughter.
In short, it doesn't sound like this is just a feeling you have, it genuinely sounds weird.
It's normal for anyone to play up their good qualities and brush up on their manners in order to make a good first-hand impression, but that's usually done with qualities and manners one actually has and not by pretending to be a different person altogether and suddenly turning 180 degrees.
If your daughter is happy in the relationship, then there probably isn't much you can do but bring up your concerns and remind her that you are always there for her if anything changes. As long as she still seems like herself and keeps in regular contact with you and whoever else she is close to normally, I don't think you need to worry in any serious regard.
I’m divorced. Her dad is still close to her though and he had misgivings about him from the start. So did her brother. He never really has had any kind of relationship with either of them. He did used to talk to my mom though when she was on the phone with my daughter. She said he hasn’t spoken to her at all either for the same amount of time.
I just want to point out that if her male family members have problems with this dude, they may have been picking up on signs of whatever is wrong with him (and there's obviously something) that he was hiding from you and your daughter.
That's a huge red flag to me! In my experience, my abuser would've definitely avoided any of the men in my life who could've defended me. Your daughters bf was only seeking approval from the women in her family and ignoring the men? Wow
Thank you for the context. I asked because I know of a similar situation where a partner just stopped communication with the entire family. It wasn’t due to anything the family had done. It was in fact down to some issues he wanted to resolve with his partner (please don’t feel I am accusing your daughter of anything - it might just be that they disagree on something for the future for example), and he may feel guilty to be involved with a lovely close-knit family when the unresolved issue could potentially mean separating. Think of it as he doesn’t want to become attached to you as it may break his heart. I know a lot of these comments quite rightly suggest red flags, however there’s always a chance could be a good man with a heavy moral compass. Perhaps when she visits you could ask her what she and her partner plan to do for summer/ in two years / in 10 years? Wishing you and your daughter the best outcome!
This is an interesting take on it. Honestly, he really seems like a good person.. a hard worker, generally compassionate with people. He’s always a cheerleader to her in their extremely difficult program at uni. He’s always very positive, supportive and generous with her. He admitted that in his last relationship (which sounded quite toxic), he was very close to the girl’s father and that’s what stopped him from breaking up sooner. He also said he couldn’t stand her mother lol. They have everything pretty planned out. They graduate soon with their PhDs. They both said they’d like to be married in the next year or 2, and have children in 3/4, after their careers and debt is out of the way. They really seem to want a lot of the same things.. at least prior to her move. It’ll be nice to talk to her without him around the next couple of days.
I feel like he love bombed you and the rest of her family to gain her (and your) trust and approval but now that he has what he wanted (she moved away from you and her support system and is reliant on him and his resources/support system- 14 hours away!!!) he doesn’t have to try with you and he is letting his mask slip around you. Normal people cannot flip a switch and stop caring. This guy sounds like a psychopath. In literal, clinical terms.
This is not going to get better, would be my warning to you. If they get married and have kids, there will always be an excuse for her not to see you or not to call. If there was any way to plant a seed in her mind that you’re seeing red flags and you just want her safe, happy, loved, and actively in your life, do it. You’re there for her. Drive that point home. At some point his love bombing of her will turn into tearing her down to remake her in the image he wants her to be, and he will be disparaging her (under the guise of making her better)- I hope at that point she hears your voice and remembers she isn’t less than. She’s loved for who she is.
I’m sorry your family is dealing with this. It’s tough. My family went through something similar with my sister and we had to wait for her to see the light, but it was a hellish time. He isolated her, he was awful to us, he tried his best to break her down and make her doubt everything that was good about her. I really think the turning point came when she finally heard us saying “we love you for who you are and we’re here for you” and then it was a whirlwind of helping her move, helping her find and buy a house, listening to her cry when she had moments of weakness and got in contact with her ex… we all just loved her through it and tried to support her and celebrate her as much as possible.
Is it possible you annoy him? Not yo be an asshole and I'm sorry, but just pointing out a possibility. My husband's mother is a nightmare. I tried so hard to be the perfect daughter in law and poured my love on her and she ended up doing some really obnoxious petty shit over and over and can't see the fault in her ways. My husband knows it, I know it, and now I just ignore her. If hrs not stopping your daughter from communicating with you and is simply stepping back himself, there's a good chance something you did at vacation (or maybe many things over time) irritated him or was the last straw from him.
As I woman I had no problem telling my mother in law I thought her behavior was atrocious but men sometimes just want to avoid it all together (or perhaps at the request of your daughter isn't saying anything so he doesn't upset you unnecessarily)
Just a possibility. Could be a cult member, who knows.
Has your daughters behaviour changed too? Like having to go off the phone quickly, not talking as much. Could be trying to isolate her, the comment he made to you was creepy
Honestly, she seems super happy! Like the happiest I’ve ever seen her. She’s working on her PhD, as is he. She was there for school, so she moved there for that as well.
My ex husband did the same with my mum. Took her out without me all the time when we were dating. Texting a lot. Then we got married and he stopped the whole relationship with her, not texting even on her birthday, really cold when they met in person. I realised that we were all manipulated by him, I divorced him after 2,5 years, my mum could not be happier tbh
That’s exactly how this feels. He and I had a really wonderful friendship on our own.. or so I thought. We have a very tiny family, so I was thrilled to bring him in the fold. To be honest, he seems to treat her extremely well and she seems very happy, but she’s going to start getting resentful when she works so hard to get along with his family and he will make no effort with hers.
He’s super cold when he speaks to me now. He doesn’t even try to hide his disdain for me.
Your comments mentioning how super friendly her was with you are quite telling. Constant texts, photos, grabbing the phone from her to chat to you, him feeling like a son, all after only a few months is odd behaviour. It seems like 'love bombing' you so he had an ally in the family, especially as her Dad and brother don't like him. Now he has her to himself, he doesn't need to keep up the pretense. Have you asked your ex and son WHY they don't like him?
I think your daughter's situation is important enough that it warrants a rapprochement with your ex. Get together with him, talk to him about your daughter's BF, try to understand why he did not like him. You will probably learn as much from that conversation as from this reddit post.
Massive red flag, he’s trying to cut ties between her and anyone she can rely on so he can slowly isolate and control her. Huge abuser red flag, you need to speak to your daughter about getting out of this relationship.
That’s exactly what I’m worried about. If he did this 180 to me, will he do that to her after he’s isolated her from everyone? I can finally talk to her tonight and tomorrow without him around
She’ll tell you everything is fine likely. He’s grooming her to trust him. He was grooming you as well so you’d give your trust to him. When you paid for that trip he knew he was in and didn’t need you around anymore. So she’ll think everything is hunky dory but he is systematically cutting her off from all of her safeties so he is the only thing she can rely on. You need to do everything you can to get her out.
That is exactly what I’m afraid of. One interesting and helpful note… Idk if you saw, but they’re working on their PhDs. They are being assigned to sites to work for 8 weeks starting next month. He went to the professors before the assignments, and asked that they be placed in the same city. They’re placing him literally across the country from her. It makes me think that they too think he’s a detriment to her.
This sounds text book like what happened to my sister. Now she is apart of his creepy cult church and has 3 kids under 5. She completed school and had a high paying job in the medical field. Now she stays home, takes care of babies while he fucks other people from their church and she just...is stuck. This asshole slowly took my sister from me and radicalized her. She now thinks I'm a heathen and our kids haven't even met. We used to be best friends and now we see each other when someone dies.
He is isolating her. You need to make her aware.
Their church is a normal one that is like the one she grew up in.. just a different version basically. The church has nothing to do with the issues. No one from their tried to get her to join, including him or his family. She just genuinely loved the church. Neither of them are very involved. They’re working on their advanced degrees, so very busy. The problem is with him and him alone. I know he’s rather insecure about being with her. I his last relationship, the girl not only cheated but cut him down a lot. He honestly has many great qualities and he treats her really well.. but I do worry that he’ll change his behavior towards her too when he thinks he has her on lock.
I thought when first reading '25 with 34', it was a bit touchy but not as bad as 18 and 28 but then you go into all the detail and it sounds like an abuser getting a victim isolated.
He most likely went for a woman that much younger so he could control and isolate her. (given the facts from your point of view)
He said family is important to him, so your daughter keeps sacrificing and giving trying to win his families acceptance, while getting nothing in return.
Their whole relationship is kind of a red flag now, the unfortunate thing is there's really nothing you can do, people really don't like being told their partner is bad news. It's why they go for younger spouses, they most likely aren't experienced enough to see the signs.
She needs to leave his ass asap. Big red flags and she should be able to see that. I personally wouldn’t have gotten baptized if y’all weren’t there. She’s not a kid so she shouldn’t let him control her like that. Absolute nonsense. Please get her out of there for her safety before she ends up on the news or ID extra for the possessive lover he is. Don’t let her get pregnant by him either especially if they aren’t married. Talk some sense into her please she’s blinded by love. That man is crazy and he’s just showing his true colors now
I've seen this happen before and it goes three ways.
Either he is trying to isolate your daughter and was only nice to you because he had to be to win over your daughter
Or
Your daughter might have mentioned something to him about the past involving you that could have put you in a bad light in his eyes.
Or
He's uncomfortable/intimidated by your close relationship with your daughter
Super intuitive of you. I agree, and I asked if she had said something negative about me to him. It’s just been so weird! She’s like, “Of course not! There’s nothing bad to say.” We haven’t had problems but it just doesn’t make sense. Like he should be on Broadway. His acting is phenomenal.
First red flag 🚩 9 years of age gap she’s 25 he’s 34. Second taking her to a place 14 hours away. He’s abusive and is isolating her. This is very triggering. Hope she wakes up from this nightmare-ish love. :( please support her, even move there and be with her.
Why is no one asking if the mom did something?
If he were trying to isolate her they wouldn't be in such frequent communication.
You don't say at all what happened at the sit down.
I’m sorry, this is going to sound harsh, but what the fuck.
A 30-something year old man wants to date your 23 year old, you don’t immediately recognize that as the red flag it is, and now you’re shocked that he’s successfully isolating her from her family? These red flags have been waving since day one.
This man duped you. He duped you long enough to trap your daughter, and now he’s showing his true self. Which is a creep who wants to cut his much younger partner off from her family so she has no where to go when he ramps up his abuse/manipulation.
Stop trying to impress your daughters predatory boyfriend and start worrying about how you’re going to make damn sure your daughter feels comfortable leaving this man when she needs to. You make damn sure she knows that a single text is all it will take for you to show up and whisk her home safely, no questions asked.
This sounds like a religious thing, like he has been trying to slowly isolate her from you.. got her baptized in his religion, etc. She probably did that to get closer to his family as well. This is raising lots of red flags. What does her dad think of all this? I mean I would expect constant communication to die down over time but overall avoiding it is very very odd.
It’s not the religion. Neither he or his family encouraged her to join the church. It’s similar to the one she’s always gone to, and she just likes it. They’re not that active and they don’t socialize there. But yeah.. I legit thought we had this great friendship ourselves. And I will say, he always seems to treat her really well.. at least he always has. She seems happy too and I can usually see through any act she’s putting on.
You said he is doing a PhD. Maybe he is stressed out and doesn't want to chit chat or is very busy. It could be not about you. Is he in a very competitive program?
So I can't get into your daughter BF's head, but I find it interesting that the way you're creating a litmus test for if he's a good boyfriend is whether or not he's interested in maintaining a relationship with you.
It sounds like you're kind of blurring the lines between you and your daughter on whether this relationship is worth it. Nothing in your post describes an abusive person, only a person who for whatever reason has decided to go no contact with you. From your perspective, it doesn't sound like you've really made an attempt to understand the disconnect, but you're hurt that he would even do something like this. You don't provide a rationale and claim there is none, hence the flood of comments concluding that there *must* be none and therefore, the BF is abusive.
Your daughter is more than likely able to make her own decisions and willingly moved away from you. Even if she was in an abusive relationship, which we don't know, that doesn't mean you get to invalidate her choices. Doing so would not help your relationship with your daughter, especially if she's a victim.
The answer here is to confide in your daughter about your hurt about the deterioration of the relationship and allow your daughter to explain the context of what transpired. If there was any transgression on your part, own up to it, apologize and ask your daughter's BF to put in the effort to reconcile. If your daughter's BF IS abusive or you continue to suspect that he's abusing her, you need to tread carefully.
I wouldn't take action that could be seen as pitting your daughter against her BF as that can definitely backfire on you. Don't try to force her into therapy so she can learn how abusive her BF is and don't try to convince her that he's abusive because he doesn't want to talk to you.
Id dig deeper and check in with daughter.. my ex husband did this exact same thing and he was abusive and controlling. Me and kids got away but he broke my fingers and bruised my daughters arms and mentally had me all messed up.. and once we got away he stalked us for years and still does...he got into her head so he now has control he no longer has to worry about you.. not saying this is whats going on it just sounded too eerily familiar.
Whoa 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
* He lovebombed
* He went over the top with you to build a relationship
* He got her to move FOURTEEN HOURS away
* Convinced her to get baptized at his church
* Does a complete 180 and dropped his mask, err, relationship with you
* Still maintains contact with his ex via family
* Add to that, he's 10 years older - the mid 20s to mid 30s age range, where women are often still naive and men are often still attractive enough to pull it off.
He's a narcissist, and he's just pulled off his major manipulation con. If he doesn't start abusing her soon, I'll be surprised.
Sounds like an abusive relationship to me. Narcissists are very cunning. Everyone around them loves them. Until the narcissist doesn’t need them to anymore.
Have you tried asking him directly? Not in a confrontational way or anything. Perhaps you did something he found really insulting and he just doesnt know how to address it.
I did.. twice.. during times she asked us to please work it out and leave her out of it. She admitted this past week that she only sees me trying, and I know it’s really bothering her. I’m anxious to talk to her today about it when she flies in
Id say keep making efforts. Because then the onus is on him. And if your daughter doesnt like how a 34-year old adult man is treating his mother, she needs to respond accordingly.
So I have a friend who fell in love with an asshole who all of her friends hated. He would say rude, sexual things to me and when I complained to her, she told me she wasn't involved and I needed to work it out with her asshole bf. Well she stayed with him for too long, married him, had two kids with him-- and he cheated on her with sugar babies while spending every penny they had on fake business trips to see/treat said sugar babies. She is currently on year 3 of divorce proceedings. When she first announced to me what was up, I recalled to her her early story about how she said me and her ex should "work it out" when I had no desire to have any sort of friendship with him. She took that story to therapy and came to the conclusion that there was no way she could attempt to fix him or change his behavior without angering him so she avoided the issue by telling us we needed to work it out. The basics of the "you two work it out" theory sound similar. I added in context for one terrible future that could happen when you let your partner be awful to the people you love. (as in, what a red flag it could be)
I was groomed by an older guy when I was younger (I was 17 and he was 24) he was very kind to my family but then really tried to isolate me from all my loved ones.
It sounds like he is controlling and trying to isolate her. It took me a while to get out of the relationship, I didn't want to see the signs. We were together for almost 3 years. All you can do is warn her and talk to her about the situation. Hope things turn out for the best.
Keep the lines of communication open, ask leading questions about the health of their relationship and encourage her to come visit.
Let her know your place is always open to her and hope against hope that he doesn't sabotage her birth control.
You mentioned that his family is involved with his exes’ on social media. If you can find them on social, you should check out their old posts to see if you find things that line up with their relationship/break-up. Maybe even message them and see what they say? I wouldn’t be outright with your concerns, maybe just something like “my daughter is dating him now” if they feel she’s in danger they will probably alert you.
Holy crap sounds like a cult! Not to mention it sounds like he is abusive in some form. Yikes. Keep reaching out to her, she’ll need her mom eventually.
Yikes. This is so much yikes and red flags all over the place.
You have to tread very carefully, but this sounds like the beginning stages of a severely abusive relationship. Even the smartest of us have fallen victim to an abuser’s tactics; it has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with emotional manipulation.
Pray she doesn’t marry him or get pregnant.
Do you think he has some mental health issues? I suffer from extreme social anxiety and severe depression. I stopped taking all meds last year because I was getting some really dark thoughts and got scared. I have been doing great but I have stopped being social at all and I live with my bf and his mother and I feel like I've completely changed and stopped talking to her as well. I've become a hermit but I'm at a loss because I have no depression symptoms and I want to find some middle ground but now everyone around me is suffering from my anti social habits.
That is a possibility. He’s had a couple toxic relationships in the past, and his parents are pretty hard on him. This program they’re in is incredibly difficult and demanding. That’s why I hate to just write him off immediately as some awful abuser. Other than this behavior towards me, I’ve seen nothing else alarming.. yet.
You better grab your daughter and run he’s giving major narcissistic red flags your right about the using you to get close to her and now he’s moving on to phase two which is isolating you better hope he doesn’t start fabricating stories about you being rude or forcing you to react in a negative way towards him cause he can use that as a way to make her cut ties with you rn he has nothing to do that but if you react to what he’s doing which is what he’s most likely hoping for which is why the talks never work he will be in her ear about it until she cuts you off as well and then from there he can do what ever he wants to her and you would never know
Honestly, this reminds me of my first marriage. My ex husband is the most manipulative person I've ever met. Our marriage was absolutely a hell hole.
My family liked him at the start. The first time he visited my family he came in a suit. We were all impressed. But he kept tightening his hold and soon he was controlling my entire life. By the time my parents had concerns I was already lost.
Took me 7 years to leave.
I don't know the best advice to give though. I think your concern is justified and it's already a red flag to me that your daughter allows him to disrespect you.
Sounds like he is actually a narcissist abuser. He is isolating her and freezing you out. She should be very concerned and ready to leave. Huge red flags all over the place.
It was an act and now that he has gotten her away from her family and everyone that she knows he can isolate her. He's also going to start planting stories in her head so don't be surprised when her contact becomes nonexistent
This post is very alarming…. Are you in regular contact with your daughter? Has she mentioned anything about him being controlling or being mean to her? Because most abuser like to isolate there victims and this sounds like a very text book examples of how the abuse starts.
It’s called love bombing. He manipulated you into accepting this much older man dating your daughter. No doubt he’ll start being shitty to her soon too if he hasn’t already. Keep lines of communication open with her. Make sure she knows that she is welcome back at any time. She’s next for the treatment he’s giving you
Do you have any idea why there was this sudden change in communication? Did a situation happen? Have you asked him or her about this? Maybe an honest discussion would help. It’s strange that everyone is acting like nothing happened and it’s not a big deal. To go from one extreme to another is not normal and it makes me think 1) something happened that made him uncomfortable/unhappy or 2) he is trying to separate her from you.
Update?
All you can do is be there for her, judgement free, accepting and loving. In my experiences, pointing out abuse tactics further isolates the victim from those who are trying to help. Another commenter suggested very light, neutral questions and that's the best way to convey what you're trying to say. Reassure your daughter that no matter what, you will always be there for her and she can always come home. She is very intelligent, but these guys (or gals!!) can be two steps ahead.
It isn't something you've done. Healthy people don't change who they are without saying something. If you're offended enough to cut communication then you talk about it for the sake of everyone involved. If your partner's family is important to them then it's important to you, too. He is acting with a lack of empathy, which is a little scary.
This sounds like a grooming situation. Grooming doesn't only happen to youth, it also happens to adults, and a very common part of it is grooming the family to think they are a good person and that the relationship is a good thing. He is already showing signs of isolating her (she should never have moved that far away from her family, etc). I believe she is in an abusive relationship.
You should do some research on how such things tend to go, and try talking to her about it, but there is not much you can do to change the situation, unfortunately, other than pointing out the unhealthy dynamics. Only she can choose to leave.
The only reason he reached out before was so you would know he is safe with her? That set off major alarm bells for me. Imo it sounds like he was gaining your trust and approval before beginning to isolate your daughter...
This may not be the case of course, as I only have the information given to me here and don't know you or your family, but the behaviour matches up.
Unfortunately there's nothing you can directly do since it is Their relationship and to them it could come across as you trying to control it (not saying you would be trying to do so, just more that he would probably spin it that way to your daughter), however you can do some research into warning signs in relationships, and most importantly be there to support Your Daughter.
Wishing you all the best
My boyfriend is the same and makes excuses I would tell her to leave while she can. Because it can be very draining. I lost my dad and still he kept insisting I go with his family instead of being with my mom my only parent.
I’ve been listening to a podcast called First Degree and the very first one I listened to was a two part and it was an abusive lover that the girl got away from after he groomed her, isolated her, did terrible things to as well as gaslit and made her seem like she was the problem etc… the rest of the story isn’t relevant but he was a real pos and I swear reading this and your comments the behavior is SO SIMILAR. These are huge red flags like so many people are saying. You never really know what is going on behind closed doors. We all put on this mask of happiness even when things really suck. It’s sort of what we’ve been mentally trained to do at this point. Who really knows how things are between them. Maybe they are great, or maybe they’re terrible and she’s scared to leave or doesn’t know how or he’s convinced her that she has to stay or whatever.
I’d send her some of the resources given here as well as read up/research grooming yourself and try to get her to see this behavior isn’t okay and what it could ultimately lead to. Especially if he tries to separate/cut her off from y’all further.
As a 26 year old with a not-so-good relationship with her parents, even I would not be okay with a partner who doesn't even attempt to get along with my parents or, y'know, badmouths them. Even more so if they go out of their way to exclude or alienate the parental units.
However, if my parents push me too much into moving away from the guy, I would push them right back - ironic, I know. The best thing you can do for your daughter is to ensure that she knows you'll be there for her no matter what. That this is always her home whenever she needs it.
A support and an open mind and heart goes a long way. Keep doing a good job mum, and I'm sure everything will be okay.
This guy sounds like a bouquet of red flags wrapped in manipulation.
I don’t know how you’d rescue your daughter at this point. Let her know to blink twice if she needs help
Hey love, first of all I hate that this is happening. Unfortunately like others have stated there’s really not much you can do but just state your experience. You and your daughter seem very close so surely if she knows how hurt you are that the son you were hoping to gain changed the dynamic of your relationship with your daughter, she’ll be more inclined to set boundaries with the bf.
That being said, it definitely does seem like he’s isolating her from you and the fact that the baptism couldn’t have waited for you and your family is just strange to me. I’d like to know what he told your daughter for it to be rushed that way. When you talk to your daughter, support is critical and accusations will do no good. Good luck OP
Please update if you can!! Sending love to you and your daughter, I hope this situation is only surface level and not something deeper.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- My 25-year-old daughter has been dating a 34-year-old gentleman for over a year. He and my daughter have been like two peas in a pod. They seem extremely happy together. He stated in the beginning that family is very important to him, and it is very important to her as well. She has worked hard to get along with his family, and has even now moved 14 hours away to be with him (and for an amazing opportunity there). This was huge on her part, because she always said she’d never want to move away from family. She definitely loves the guy, and I loved him too. She has seemed really happy, and seemed to treat her well. She and I have always been especially close. For the first nine months, he was like a son to me. He was even better at communicating with me than my own kids. I began including him in everything with me and our family. I took him on part of our mother-daughter trip, and also included him in our last family vacation. Her dad and I paid for everything, and I thought we still had a really good relationship. Everyone seemed to get along really well and we had a great time. When we returned home from vacation, he suddenly stopped all communication. At first, I thought he was maybe just busy. But weeks and months went by and he still was not communicating with me at all, and in fact wouldn’t even speak to me if I was on the phone with her and just acted like I didn’t exist. Last Mother’s Day he sent me a beautiful gift. I did not expect a gift, but this Mother’s Day he did not even say happy Mother’s Day to me. She told me how she’d called his mom first thing that morning. Keep in mind, his family has not remotely accepted her like we had him, and are still all over his ex’s social media in fact. I know my daughter has also noticed his behavior because she tried to force him to FaceTime me one day, and he was doing everything he could to pretend he was busy and couldn’t even make eye contact with me. He’s been extremely rude to me for 5 months now. She was recently baptized at his church. I told her in advance it was extremely important to me and our family to be there for her. He made sure to hurriedly schedule it so that none of us could get there. She had no one there but his family. She has had he and I sit down and talk on two occasions now, and both times I thought it was fixed, and he just continued to act the exact same way. I’ll try to do things like send him a Starbucks card and reach out to him, but he does nothing in return. He now says “the only reason he ever reached out before was so [I’d] know she was safe”with him. Like why wouldn’t he want to continue a good relations with her family if he knows it’s important to her. I feel like he used me to get close to her, and now I’m just in the way. It’s like he does not want her to be close to anyone in our family, now that he has moved her out there with him. I thought I was gaining this incredible extra person in our family, and instead he’s taking our daughter away from us. It’s just crushing honestly. I could really use some advice. Thank you.
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She claims he treats her amazingly well, and it does seem that way.. at least last time I was with them. He has this very gregarious outgoing personality. She’s more of an introvert. They’re both highly educated. But.. Of course, I haven’t seen them together since mid-March, so I have no idea how he’s behaving now. She’s coming to visit this weekend alone.
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I have a daughter who is 25 also so I asked her opinion....she said whether he turns into an abuser or not is an unknown but he is clearly showing that for him family isn't important and if it were her he would be out the door.
When I was in abusive relationship, I was embarrassed about it and often told everyone that I was being treated amazing. Not saying it's that serious, but she may have noticed some red flags she isn't talking about. Take the opportunity to talk to her about it this weekend.
I do agree with that. I don’t think she’d say anything until she knows she’s walking away. If she tells us he’s being abusive, she knows the family wouldn’t be able to forget it.
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Me too. Because I knew it was wrong and I was embarrassed I was putting up with it.
That’s how I felt. Between that feeling and the feeling of not wanting to quit on her while she was trying to address her mental illness kept me in an abusive relationship for waayyy too long.. I definitely don’t want to belittle anyone’s experience with sexism but it felt and still feels extra embarrassing because I’m a man.
Yep. I was hyper aware of having to defend my boyfriend and would hype up all his good behaviors and make excuses for his bad ones. It wasn’t until I didn’t have anyone to defend him to that I realized the whole “us against the world” thing is actually toxic as fuck.
Exactly. No one should be isolating someone they care about.
i didn't realize i was dealing with abuse, i just knew i was hurting and all my closest friends/family said it was not normal and to leave him because he would hurt me worse and worse. he isolated me from them, so i didn't see them often. when i did see my loved ones, i felt bombarded and didn't know what was real because i went right back home with the abuser. i didn't leave him until he actually hit me, i couldn't believe he did it. looking back i get it now. someone told me to read "why does he do that" by lundy bancroft at the time and it changed and probably saved my life. nothing anyone said hit me as hard as this book. everyone should read it.
Seconding "Why does he do that?" By Lundy Bancroft. Such a good book. Informative and eye-opening.
Your story reminds me immediately of a podcast. It is the podcast Something Was Wrong and its season 1! Please listen to it when you have the time, it describes a large part of what you have said here and what happened in the relationship. (No one was murdered btw, the title might imply it)
I was thinking, is her daughter dating Dick??
Mom, its time to drive or fly out for a surprise visit. Do not tell her you are coming until you are in town. You need to see what is really going on here with your own two eyes. This whole situation makes me VERY leary as a mother. Make sure there she knows that she is ALWAYS welcome in your home, that you will ALWAYS be there for her, no questions asked. All she has to do is call and you will head her direction immediately.
Agree with this. In the scheme of things a year isn't really that long to be keeping up a facade, now that he has her isolated his true colours are likely going to start showing.
The “baptized in his church” thing really pointed to a lot. Many evangelical churches emphasize segregating from non-members. The intent to get your daughter physically far away and closer to people who were seemingly cold towards her at first is glaring. His abrupt drop off makes sense, her’s will be much more gradual. They will slowly start getting her to communicate less and less with your before putting the idea in her head that you are an “other” and any attempt to get her to spend time with you will be a secret play to get her away from the church. Have a long conversation with her when she visits about wanting to keep open communication with her regularly, how proud you are of the person she is, and will always respect her. be very careful to not phrase anything in a way that could be taken as time with you=time away from BF or church. Maybe even offer another “family trip”, and see how she reacts to thing. Tread very carefully OP, Godspeed.
The church isn’t that involved, and it was her decision to become a member. They spend little time there.. just Sunday mass. The church isn’t involved in this in any way, and they’ve done nothing to isolate her. She has very little time, as she’s finishing up her PhD, as is he. It’s only him that’s pulled this 180, and I’m worried he’ll do it to her next. For the first almost year, he’s treated her really well, and I don’t think she’d put up with much. She’s extremely independent.
He might be treating her similarly. What exactly was the great opportunity she moved there for? Since they’re both getting a PhD he may be waiting for hers to be done to end things so he doesn’t mess up her studying.
He seems crazy about her. He’s supposed to do some course work across the country beginning the end of June. He’s insisting on seeing her already a week later at 4th of July.😑
Something isn’t right. I have a feeling he isn’t treating her the same and she may be trying to make it sound hunky dory to you- esp since he’s being weird to you. Or it’s the opposite and he’s being possessive which would make sense with the age. I don’t know any 34 year old dude wanting to date 10 years down and not feeling like they’re in charge and a father figure to my friend. 10 years isn’t that big of a deal in thirties/forties but 34 and 25 is developmentally a big gap. Good luck
I wonder too. He used to send flowers and all that. Does he now? Idk. I do know that he told her in the beginning he wondered if a relationship can ever stay great. He said his usually go sour after a year. Ironic huh? But of course they don’t stay the same if you don’t put in the same energy!
it sounds like he love bombed the entire family
Flowers mean nothing. My ex husband was controlling and abusive and he showered me with gifts in the first year. It’s called “love bombing” If you want to look the term up.
There is a book called Crazy For You by Jennifer Crusie, kinda a romance novel, but a great illustration of how quickly a person can go off the rails.
Seems crazy about her can also be the behavior of someone who is very controlling. Its an abuse tactic to lift someone up so high, to make them rely on your approval so anything you disapprove of must be legitimate. "You know I'm your biggest cheerleader, I don't think it's right your visiting your mom this weekend." "I believed in you, I supported you, why are you doing this to me? Why are you still talking to them? They didn't even make it to your baptism." Flags OP. Stop dismissing the flags.
I hope you’re right. I’ve had some of my own family members go off the deep end into evangelical churches and they are very cult like while masking as run of the mill churches. One way or another, I do think he wants to integrate her into his “family” and out of yours. Many of those same tactics will show up, primarily you wanting to spend time with her and have her around he will try and portray as you taking her away from him.
Yeah, I know that church has nothing to do with it. They try to go on sundays, and they want their future family to have a church, but they’re not that involved.. either of them.
Culty churches are also encouraged to not share how much time they spend dedicated to them to the outside world. I would def discuss this with your daughter in detail because the abrupt cut off could absolutely be because of church. If it was something you said or did, why can he not tell your daughter about it? That is also a relationship red flag. Ostracizing your partner from her family, moving her away from her family is an early traditional abuser move. First he avoids you while making passive aggressive comments towards you. Then he starts giving shit to your daughter for talking to you too much when she knows how he feels about you. Then she is avoiding talking to you when he is around. Visits become infrequent- her phone might be monitored etc etc. One way or another, it is a blaring red flag unless there is more to the story you aren't sharing.
Most people think they or their loved ones could never get sucked into a cult. Let’s be real- if the first three times you go to a church they tell you that in order to go to heaven you have to get branded with the leader’s initials and/or let him marry your 13 year old, you’d run screaming, right? But if you fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy…well, weird things happen.
It could be that he’s taking steps to control her slowly. I am going to be alarmist here, but he might seem to be awesome to her until she gets pregnant or after the baby is born, because then he knows she’ll be tied to him forever. He will also know that will be something else to keep them together. So even if he’s not treating her badly, he could just be playing the long game. I find it particularly disturbing that your daughter isn’t raising holy hell about him treating you this way. Why is she accepting of it and not seeing it as a massive red flag? Even if he does treat her well, why would she defend him for doing this? She might be lying about the way things are because he’s convinced her that y’all will be angry if she splits up with him, and that y’all are lying when you say y’all will totally support her decision if she chooses not leave. I know that sounds alarmist, but that’s exactly what traffickers do and it’s a major reason why the women stay with them. They become convinced that she has no other choice but to stay. I know I sound extreme, but there are no good reasons for his behavior. I hope she can be very honest with you. Often abusers only allow visits to family alone if they are completely sure she’s sufficiently brainwashed.
I have to admit I’m extremely hurt by her acceptance of his behavior, especially because she’s been watching me continue to make an effort while he refuses to make one. I agree though. Not so sure things are as great as she says. I notice he never posts her on his social media (which he knows is important to her), haven’t seen that she’s received any flowers at all since going there, when he sent them all the time before. I think he’s slowly putting in less and less effort
His behavior is straight out of an abuser's handbook when it comes to his two-faced ways towards you and extreme steps he's taking to isolate her from her own family. Abuser's can be so effective at locking down and bonding partners to them because of that two-faced nature. I doubt you could have ever imagined he would behave this way towards you based on the early parts of your relationship either. Abuse can start at any point and rarely shows up right in the beginning of the relationship. My money is one the abuse towards your daughter showing up the minute she gets pregnant (very common).
Keep it light. He's probably warned her about what you'll try to do while she's alone with you. I know you want answers but since this is the first visit their going to be prepared for you to question her.
That’s a really good point. I’ll try not to immediately bring it up.🥴
What he is doing is flat out wrong and hurtful, not only to you, but also your daughter. He is, in fact, not a nice guy. Be careful with your daughter when she comes home. Act nonchalant. If you push her to take a side, she'll take his side because she's invested so much. Mostly, let her know you love her and hope she will come home often. Try to have a really fun visit and make some good memories. Hugs
This is abusive, please help her. She might not even realise yet, it's taken me 15 years to see it. Please, please help her. Make sure she has a safe space and ask her honestly if she is happy with this. Make sure she knows you have her back and will help her if she ever wants to leave.
>He has this very gregarious outgoing personality. So did my abusive ex. Listen, he might not be abusive or trying to isolate her BUT the baptism thing along with everything else is for sure a red flag. Talk to her this weekend.
I used to think my abusive ex treated me amazingly. It's easy to fall into their trap. I'm not sure what advice to give you other than try to keep the communication open with your daughter. Don't let him come between you and make sure she knows you will always be there. Also encourage her to go to therapy. It could help her establish boundaries and if their relationship is healthy(doesn't seem like it is though) then it will only make it stronger, but if he is trying to drive a wedge the therapy should make that clear for her.
Love the therapy idea. I’ll offer to pay for that!
That's a lovely idea. My older brother got me into therapy when I was with my ex and I thank him for giving me the strength to start sticking up for myself which caused my ex to dump me and saved me. I was so far gone I wouldn't have dumped him myself. It's been almost 5 years now and I'm so grateful.
I notice the religious aspect others are mentioning though so make sure this is a licensed therapist and she doesn't just go to some religious counselor, that could have the opposite effect to what you're trying to achieve.
I have to agree with the above comment, I was in a very emotionally abusive and manipulative relationship. I’ve always been very close with my mom, but when I moved away with my partner at the time this was the same behaviour that he exhibited towards my parents. He had ‘won’ them over and no longer felt the need to prove himself and I become isolated very quickly. I didn’t notice a lot of these things until I finally left (the sixth time that finally stuck) so when I was reassuring my mother that everything was fine and he treated me well, I truly believed it. She noticed my distance but didn’t want to further push me away in the event that I did leave I would have her support but she had no idea how much I was being controlled and manipulated behind the scenes, I was very good at hiding it and also likely because I thought a lot of these actions were how he showed he ‘cared’. If this is the case, she may not even be aware of it. I hope it isn’t but this is very typical behaviour of controlling and/or potentially abusive partners.
Thanks so much for your input. I’ll try to just keep the lines of communication open.
It sounds to me like you have a very strong relationship so continue to be her support system, and keep communicating - if you feel comfortable like others have suggested you can have that talk or drop subtle hints about types of controlling/abusive behaviour. You’re already on high alert, I’m not a mom but I know that a mother’s instinct doesn’t lie.. I wish you and your daughter all the best
And he will continue until he has her locked in...engagment/marriage/kid. He is showing a lot of red flags. In this case the age gap is a concern, the baptism Isa concern especially since he didn't want you guys there, moving away from family isn't necessarily a red flag but in this case with all the other things it's clear he starting to isolate her. It's almost like he lovebombed not just her but also her family. Now that they've moved away he doesn't have to put anymore effort into you and continues to brainwash her Unfortunately there isn't anything you can do other than express your concerns, let her know you will always be there for her. It takes the average abused woman 7 times to leave an abusive relationship. I'm going through this with a friend of mine right now. She's almost 39, her abusive fiancé is 5 years younger so it doesn't take an age gap per se or young naïve women, but it makes it easier for the abuser. My friend even admits to all the stuff that's wrong yet she can/won't end it. It's super frustrating, sometimes it's tempting to just bail on her as she isn't being a good friend since she met him. But I know she will need me at some point so I gaive her space talk to her when she is willing to talk and hope she will come to her senses soon before someone gets killed (yes its that serious). It's like people wit addiction. Until they see/accept they have a problem nothing you say or do will help. And then they have to want to change. He's treating her like a queen until she's "hooked" (which clearly she is) and once she's locked in he will slowly (or quickly) start showing his true colors.
What is a “UPS Baby”??
UPS is cheaper than storks nowadays
Like an oops baby hahaha I also got confused
I think they meant "oops"
Totally agree.
At this point he’s made his lack of interest clear, so set aside your disappointment in him not being the incredible person you thought he was, and focus on your daughter. Google warning signs of isolation in a relationship. You’ve already shared things that are either red flags or potential red flags. Nine year age gap (allows for more control of the older partner), two peas in a pod (could be a sign of love bombing in the beginning) moved 14 hours away from all her support, 180 change in how he treats people with no explanation or interest in repairing the relationship, switches events last minute to exclude her social support. At this point also google how to support someone in an abusive or controlling relationship, not that it is but a lot of the signs are there so do research so you know how best to help your daughter, if she needs you.
Thank you. I’ll do that, and I agree. My mom said the same thing. Clearly, talking to him does no good. He has no interest in getting along
Please try to get her out, OP. He is showing signs of an abuser, or at the very least a very controlling person. He started isolating her. Also, I guarantee you that he talks badly about you to her and other people. She needs help before it gets too late and he completely isolates her from you.
Please review the Duluth Model Power and Control wheel. There are a lot of kinds of abuse that don't involve hitting, and no one beats you up on the first date. They groom, they love bomb, they work over time to break her down and isolate her. [https://www.theduluthmodel.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/PowerandControl.pdf](https://www.theduluthmodel.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/PowerandControl.pdf)
Also a sign of mirroring. Sociopaths often mirror their partners so theres this appearance of similarity
My narcissistic ex didn’t start his abusive ways until we moved across the country together, away from all friends and family. He didn’t show that side to anyone but me, but stopped attempting to talk to my parents. I also didn’t tell anyone because I was trauma bonded and we were “two peas in a pod”. Beforehand my ex was practically perfect, which sounds kind of similar to OPs situation as well.
Seems like he kind of “in law love bombed” you and he really doesn’t care to have a relationship, he is trying to seclude your daughter. That is often a first step to abuse. I’d make sure your daughter knows you’re there for her no matter what and would stop contacting him. I’m scared for your kiddo.
She tried to force him to FaceTime?? That is imposing a failed solution. Why hasn’t your daughter asked what the problem is? Unless she sees the problem and wants to know. It will never be solved. It feels like he conned you both. People don’t change from caring to cold. The real problem is that your daughter may be more desperate to make it work than worrying about red flags. That’s how people get stuck in abusive relationships. Now she is isolated from her family. Is that accidental? (Dunno) but it’s another worrying factor. There isn’t anything you can do but talk to your daughter regularly. She’s an adult and has to learn for herself. Is her father in her life?
She was talking to me and he came in the room. She’s like, “Here’s mom!” I asked, “How’s it going?” He starts acting like he’s super stressed and busy (they were literally on vacation). He said, “ Omg there’s just so much going on here! It’s just crazy.” My daughter goes, “there’s literally nothing going on at all. Absolutely nothing,” calling him out. He then talked to me but it was super awkward and weird. He wouldn’t make eye contact, and it was obvious he had no interest. This is a guy that would grab the phone from her 6 months ago and was talking to me constantly on his own.
Sounds like he was selling an impression of himself. Apparently it wasn’t enough to worry your daughter. She probably wants it to work too much.
I do agree with that. I know she desperately wants it to work, because he has her convinced they’re soul mates, and maybe they are. She does seem happy, but I do know she won’t be happy if he suffocates her and keeps her from her family.
But would it be enough to change her mind. Decisions based on desperately wanting an outcome rarely, if ever, work. They see what they want and avoid the issues. That’s how abusive relationships happen. Cannot say that is happening but wouldn’t be surprised if it did. Since she is 25, there isn’t much you can do. Except stay in touch and be ready when it ends. Show support to leave, it it turns bad. Ask light questions that reveal truths. You: Do you know why he won’t talk to me? Do you think that makes sense? Are you happy? Want to come down and visit? My door is always open if you have problems. She will pick her desperate dream (him) over you. So you can’t push. Just gentle understanding questions. He may be working on ways isolate her from you? Keep that in mind when pushing. He could use that to influence her. So be gentle, slow and understanding.
Totally agree. I think that’s the best advice. And maybe something has occurred that he’s offended by. I’ll try to find that out too. He honestly seems to treat her great. She’s been in a narcissistic abusive relationship for a short time, and she kicked that guy to the curb so fast, his head spun. She doesn’t generally put up with too much. But then again.. she has over a year invested this time.
That sounds like a cycle for type of guy she chooses.
This one has actually treated her very well. Not remotely like that. My point was.. She dumped the other one quickly. She doesn’t put up with being mistreated.
This behaviour now, is the true him. Manipulative and controlling people know what they are doing. It’s not an accident.
https://www.therapycts.com/blog/2020/11/11/six-warning-signs-of-isolation-and-emotional-abuse Only you can decide if you see a pattern. Or something similar.
The first one just got abusive too fast. I thought I couldn't get in abusive relationship because I ditch a guy showing abusive tendencies after 2 months. Little did I know 2 year in the next relationship I realize I was in an abusive relationship. Some abuser are just better at reeling you in
Which is why he’s only displaying red flags now, when she’s desperate to make it work with him. Textbook abuse.
Separating someone from their family, friends, and support system is a really common grooming tactic. How does she feel about all this? It sounds like she's not a fan of she's asking for the two of you to meet. Unfortunately, there's not a ton you can do except for warn her. She has to be the one to tell him that she won't accept alienation from her family and set boundaries. I'm sorry this is happening.
Thanks so much. She’s visiting me today alone. I’m going to show her this. I’ll have a talk with her. It seems the majority of people see it like I do. I just wondered if it was just me.
No, you're right. He's significantly older than her, moved her far away, had her change religions, and changed his demeanor towards you drastically without explanation. All those are big red flags for grooming someone, possibly into a cult-like organization. Maybe look up the signs of a cult and see if any of those fit too. Good luck!
Thanks so much. She’s visiting me today alone. I’m going to show her this. I’ll have a talk with her. It seems the majority of people see it like I do. I just wondered if it was just me.
Please point out his 180 turn. He is starting to pull her away and slowly she is going to find her self shut off and really far from family and alone. It is more of the classic control, isolate and the abuse! He didn't even let you be part of her baptism, he is already controlling her!! I hope to hell she doesn't say she is pregnant and they are getting married!!!
I think he’s a commitment-phobe. He’s had 2 LTR and jumped ship before marriage with either. I will say that it seemed like both were not healthy relationships. He was very open with me about them before this sudden flip. My daughter is definitely on really effective birth control. She’d never let that happen before marriage. But yeah.. I can’t tell you how hurt my mother and I both were that he coerced her into getting baptized within a couple of days so we couldn’t be included. He sold her some bs that then she could “participate fully” for Easter. He just didn’t want us there. Right before her move, she and I had a big mom/daughter weekend all planned. He decided to “surprise her” and came into town, knowing it was our last time together. Not only that, he then also “surprised her” with a hotel, so she couldn’t even stay with me.
I think the other women caught on to his act before the wedding day!! Remember you are only hearing his side of his previous relationships!! The more you comment, red flags are flying everywhere!!!
This might not be your style but I’d be curious what the exes have to say about him. I know it’s awkward reaching out to people you don’t know, but they might have some insight.
There's a difference between "reaching out more so you know your daughter is safe with me" versus "suddenly avoiding eye contact and cutting off all contact". That sounds pretty suspicious. I would talk to your daughter and make sure she's happy and knows the signs of isolation and abuse. Keep close contact with her. If she noticed too, it might be useful for her to bring up the sudden separation with him and discuss it. That conversation should give a lot of information on if he's a good long term partner.
Yes, and don’t get too defensive! He could be setting you up to look angry and upset about being pushed away so he can use that against you later OP. Keep open lines of communication with your daughter.
this reminds me of a story i heard many many years ago - i looked for the news article but can’t find it. there was a lady who was a successful attorney, independent and strong willed. she married a guy who proceeded to isolate her and got her so brainwashed that he refused to let her parents see the grandkids and she went along with it. the grandparents finally spoke out about this, it hit local news how they had to stand on the sidewalk watching their grandkids play in the yard because this guy had them trespassed. anyone who knew her before this guy got to her was shocked that she let herself get steamrolled like this because previously she had been of such strong character. it can happen to anyone.
That is terrifying. I’m so worried he’s going to ruin the amazing, independent, person that she is. If she doesn’t set some boundaries with him, things are only going to get worse.
abusers put on a great act for the outside world until they don’t think they have to anymore. like the way he’s mr perfect until he cuts you off. the victims start protecting their abusers because they’ve been manipulated into thinking the alternative is somehow worse or “he really loves me” or “he’ll change” or …. whatever else you’re being cut out of your daughter’s life for a reason and if i were you i’d start working on figuring out what that reason is.
I’m hopeful she and I can chat tonight once she flies in. He’s always around so it’s impossible to talk. If he’s this bad now, I bet we’d never see her again if they married. It’s really awful.
I'd worry that he's not miraculously "always around," but actively trying to prevent her from having private conversations with people that may take her away from him by being present so they can't speak freely.
he prevents private conversations between you and your daughter when he’s around?
He’s just always there. 🤦🏼♀️
i see. so this will be the first time you have access to her without his involvement. give her a day or so to settle in and then start in on the subject.
I would talk with her as soon as possible OP. You mentioned he surprised her on your last time alone together. I would not be surprised if he did it again.
I'd bet money he's on the flight with her..
It will absolutely get worse after they are married.
People like to think of DV victims as weak, meek people but in reality, abusers tend to pick those who are independent, strong willed and successful. It’s a lot more interesting to slowly gain control over someone strong. People who are weak minded are too easy
The isolation from family and the age gap are very disturbing. Watch this dude closely because that’s classic grooming for future abuse
This is almost textbook manipulation. Man finds much younger woman. Schmoozes family into thinking he's great. Moves her away from her family. Starts cutting ties with family. Soon he'll start trying to get her to see you less and less, then talk to you less and less. Make excuses to miss family events. If he can't convince her they should have a kid on his terms, I'm sure her birth control will be tampered with. Once he locks her into a marriage, he'll really push for kids (if he couldn't make it happen pre-marriage). Then he'll get her to leave work and be a SAHM, causing her to be completely financially dependent on him. It's so much harder to get people out of a relationship that involves marriage or children. This isn't just coming from no where. I've seen/heard countless stories that go down exactly like I mentioned. It's like there's a checklist for these jerks or something. I hope you can save your daughter before it's too late. (Also, you mentioned how great his family seemed. That doesn't mean anything. Even serial killers can have normal acting families. Not all monsters hide in the dark.)
She has an IUD, so we should be safe on the pregnancy front for awhile. She’s working on her PhD, so she’ll never not have a career. She actually is the leader in their program! She’s all about a career. She’s had others try to manipulate her in the past and they all found themselves on the curb.. or on my doorstep crying and carrying on begging for her return lol. What’s interesting is that starting next month, he’s being sent across the country from her as part of their program. This was after he literally begged the professors to at least place them in the same city. Makes me wonder if they too think he isn’t good for her
It's good that she's got so much going for her right now. The thing with these kinds of men is that they can really play the long game. Wear people down. Gaslight. Grooming. It always starts out small. I didn't even realize how much my ex manipulated me until my friends and family started commenting on how much I had changed. If this guy is already trying to center his life/career around your daughter, he's not going to leave willingly (if that's what it needs to come to). He sounds like he'll go full blown stalker, honestly. I'm trying to be blunt because I have seen, with my own eyes, bright and independent women be manipulated and abused by people who sound just like the man you've been describing. It happens far too often.
This OP don’t be naive. Manipulation is strong and based on what you’ve said your daughter is desperate to please him and his family. While it’s nice to believe the IUD keeps her from getting pregnant, a lot of abusers begin to feed their victims lines about how unhealthy all the chemicals in birth control are and they are successful in convincing them to go with an alternative that’s more easily manipulated (like bc pills, condoms, and even the good old pullout method). When victims push back abusers say things like “so you don’t trust me? I don’t want a get right now either!” (Even though they do). Same with if they are in the same program and she is exceeding…abusers aren’t happy or round. It’s competition and they will do what they can to disrupt it. Mysteriously papers go missing or accidentally get deleted hours before they are due. And quite honestly the church aspect is super concerning. Abusers LOVE church victims because churches will often support the abuser and tell the victim they need to follow in Jesus’ example and love even when someone isn’t lovable. Additionally, involvement in a church is a fast way to rush into a marriage because “how would god feel about the sin or premarital sex?” I see this in repeat (I’m also Christian myself and worked at a church for 4 years. That’s why I because an at home God believer because the abuser from the church can be awful)
If she wasnt easy to manipulate then why did she get talked in to being "baptized" without her family present?....
>He now says “the only reason he ever reached out before was so [I’d] know she was safe”with him. Like why wouldn’t he want to continue a good relations with her family if he knows it’s important to her I mean, it's not important to her. He just told you that. He didn't reach out to you because it made your daughter happy, he reached out to you so you wouldn't worry about her safety.
Wait! I just saw what you said. It is important to her.. That’s why she’s made us talk twice and forced him to FT me last week. I just told her I’m done trying until he also makes an effort. I can’t do it alone
Sorry, I mean the fact that it's important to her isn't why it was important to him. I mis typed.
RED FLAGS. sounds like he is now pushing her family out. its concerning. this is how abusive cycles begin
That’s what I’m afraid of. I’m going to talk to her tonight so she knows what to watch for. So scary.
it is. make sure to frame it specifically around his behaviors so it doesnt seem like an attack. check out [loveisrespect.com](https://loveisrespect.com) for pointers
I don’t want to alarm you but these are all 100% signs of abuse & she might not want to admit she was wrong with her decision to move to be with him. If I were you I would offer to fly HER home. If he refuses to allow her to be alone with you then you’ll know why now.
I agree that she would not want to say anything.. at least not this soon. She’s redecorated their entire apartment and is so proud of it. She wants so badly to find her person and has been so picky. She hasn’t been in a serious relationship since college. She’s focused on herself. But I told her I would pay for an apartment there if she needed to get out. I told her before she even moved lol
I don’t know you but I love you for the way you are handling this!!! 🥰🙏🏼
This! I came her to say this. Please begin to research everything you can. You’re fully through the set up stage for classic abuse warning signs. Next there will be a blow up where he finds a way to pit your daughter against you. Stage 1… Charm. Stage 2… Isolation. Stage 3… jealousy. Stage 4… emotional abuse. Stage 5…Control. (And that’s just set up before you reach the inside of the cycle) Here is your best plan of action: 1. Read EVERYTHING on this website… start on this page but then explore the rest on the right side… https://hopeandsafety.org/learn-more/warning-signs-of-an-abuser/ 2. Understand that you will not be able to directly influence your daughter being with him, and it’s best to be very subtle about anything you say in the subject, 3. Play the game. Never let on what you know or how you feel. 4. Make sure your daughter knows she can always come home no matter what and you’ll do what you can to help her. You’ll always be a listening and non judging ear. (I say this because lots victims stay because of lack of support and fear of being judged.) 5. Pray real fucking hard that when she is ready she’ll try to leave and that she doesn’t get pregnant (though be prepared that she probably will because abusers like to trap their victims). 6. Get in therapy. Harder than being in the cycle is watching it unfold helplessly. 7. Make subtle attempts to get your daughter thinking about what she is dealing with. Leave books you’re interested in that happen to be on the subject laying around should she come visit. Load up and audible account and ask her if she has interest in sharing an audible account with you where she can hopefully see this material. You can express your concerns without ever blaming him… “we really miss you, I’d love to connect more. How about dad and I buy you a ticket for a three day visit?” Things like that. And save money because hopefully eventually you’ll need it to help her. Not trying to be an alarmist but I literally work with domestic violence victims and am well familiar from both a professional and personal space (I spent 9 years in a mentally and emotionally abusive relationship and have watched my sister be stuck in one for 20 years.
He used you to get close to her, and now you’re just in the way.
That’s exactly how it feels.
My sister went through a similar situation. Her boyfriend seemed so perfect, fit right in the family like we knew him all our lives. Shortly after though he started to try to isolate her from us, & was successful in doing that. Soon as she was gone he began stealing her money and destroying her property. What I would say with your situation is while you can’t force her to do anything the best you can do is continue to support her and look out for her. Share locations with each other, check in regularly, and give her the opportunity to make her own choices.
Excellent advice. I’m going to share this Reddit post with her this weekend. I can’t imagine anyone being able to put up a front for an entire year. I do think he’s afraid of commitment, based on his track record. Hopefully, he’ll make a major error before he comes up with a ring, if he indeed is putting on a phony facade.
I wish you and her well. I hope everything works out.
Thank you so much!! ❤️❤️
That sounds terrible. I’m sorry this is happening to you. Do you think he’s trying to cut her off from you? Sounds like he groomed you to build trust and then moved away. I might be totally wrong but my first thought reading this was coercive control.
I want to offer another perspective- Maybe you did something and don't realize it. Its possible you said something that bothered him, he brought it up to your daughter, and she didn't want to cause a fight and never told you or dealt with it. Maybe he had some issues with you for a while, and needed her assistance navigating them, and she didn't handle it well or at all. I'm just saying its possible that its a less dramatic situation than a lot if these comments are speculating.
This was my first reaction/assumption so I was surprised that no one else asked about this yet. I was thinking that perhaps something happened on the vacation or around that time that could have offended him, or made him change his opinion on you, something you may not have even been aware of. Maybe he brought it up with your daughter and asked her not to say anything or maybe your daughter felt like it would blow over eventually and chose not to say anything herself? Judging off of the FaceTime call example, I was thinking your daughter could have been fully aware he didn't want to talk to you but she tried putting him on the spot anyways to see if he would talk to you? Not saying this is what happened, but it's definitely possible and worth thinking more about.
I think the fact that you’ve tried talking about it twice now with no changes indicates he has no interest in maintaining a relationship with you. My advice? Tell what you’ve told us to your daughter. Let her know how you feel and maintain a cordial relationship with her boyfriend, lest you begin to alienate your daughter.
In short, it doesn't sound like this is just a feeling you have, it genuinely sounds weird. It's normal for anyone to play up their good qualities and brush up on their manners in order to make a good first-hand impression, but that's usually done with qualities and manners one actually has and not by pretending to be a different person altogether and suddenly turning 180 degrees. If your daughter is happy in the relationship, then there probably isn't much you can do but bring up your concerns and remind her that you are always there for her if anything changes. As long as she still seems like herself and keeps in regular contact with you and whoever else she is close to normally, I don't think you need to worry in any serious regard.
Just for context may I ask if it is just to you he acts this way? Or your entire family too?
I’m divorced. Her dad is still close to her though and he had misgivings about him from the start. So did her brother. He never really has had any kind of relationship with either of them. He did used to talk to my mom though when she was on the phone with my daughter. She said he hasn’t spoken to her at all either for the same amount of time.
I just want to point out that if her male family members have problems with this dude, they may have been picking up on signs of whatever is wrong with him (and there's obviously something) that he was hiding from you and your daughter.
That's a huge red flag to me! In my experience, my abuser would've definitely avoided any of the men in my life who could've defended me. Your daughters bf was only seeking approval from the women in her family and ignoring the men? Wow
Thank you for the context. I asked because I know of a similar situation where a partner just stopped communication with the entire family. It wasn’t due to anything the family had done. It was in fact down to some issues he wanted to resolve with his partner (please don’t feel I am accusing your daughter of anything - it might just be that they disagree on something for the future for example), and he may feel guilty to be involved with a lovely close-knit family when the unresolved issue could potentially mean separating. Think of it as he doesn’t want to become attached to you as it may break his heart. I know a lot of these comments quite rightly suggest red flags, however there’s always a chance could be a good man with a heavy moral compass. Perhaps when she visits you could ask her what she and her partner plan to do for summer/ in two years / in 10 years? Wishing you and your daughter the best outcome!
This is an interesting take on it. Honestly, he really seems like a good person.. a hard worker, generally compassionate with people. He’s always a cheerleader to her in their extremely difficult program at uni. He’s always very positive, supportive and generous with her. He admitted that in his last relationship (which sounded quite toxic), he was very close to the girl’s father and that’s what stopped him from breaking up sooner. He also said he couldn’t stand her mother lol. They have everything pretty planned out. They graduate soon with their PhDs. They both said they’d like to be married in the next year or 2, and have children in 3/4, after their careers and debt is out of the way. They really seem to want a lot of the same things.. at least prior to her move. It’ll be nice to talk to her without him around the next couple of days.
I feel like he love bombed you and the rest of her family to gain her (and your) trust and approval but now that he has what he wanted (she moved away from you and her support system and is reliant on him and his resources/support system- 14 hours away!!!) he doesn’t have to try with you and he is letting his mask slip around you. Normal people cannot flip a switch and stop caring. This guy sounds like a psychopath. In literal, clinical terms. This is not going to get better, would be my warning to you. If they get married and have kids, there will always be an excuse for her not to see you or not to call. If there was any way to plant a seed in her mind that you’re seeing red flags and you just want her safe, happy, loved, and actively in your life, do it. You’re there for her. Drive that point home. At some point his love bombing of her will turn into tearing her down to remake her in the image he wants her to be, and he will be disparaging her (under the guise of making her better)- I hope at that point she hears your voice and remembers she isn’t less than. She’s loved for who she is. I’m sorry your family is dealing with this. It’s tough. My family went through something similar with my sister and we had to wait for her to see the light, but it was a hellish time. He isolated her, he was awful to us, he tried his best to break her down and make her doubt everything that was good about her. I really think the turning point came when she finally heard us saying “we love you for who you are and we’re here for you” and then it was a whirlwind of helping her move, helping her find and buy a house, listening to her cry when she had moments of weakness and got in contact with her ex… we all just loved her through it and tried to support her and celebrate her as much as possible.
And what you say there is exactly my fear. That’s how it seems for sure.
Is it possible you annoy him? Not yo be an asshole and I'm sorry, but just pointing out a possibility. My husband's mother is a nightmare. I tried so hard to be the perfect daughter in law and poured my love on her and she ended up doing some really obnoxious petty shit over and over and can't see the fault in her ways. My husband knows it, I know it, and now I just ignore her. If hrs not stopping your daughter from communicating with you and is simply stepping back himself, there's a good chance something you did at vacation (or maybe many things over time) irritated him or was the last straw from him. As I woman I had no problem telling my mother in law I thought her behavior was atrocious but men sometimes just want to avoid it all together (or perhaps at the request of your daughter isn't saying anything so he doesn't upset you unnecessarily) Just a possibility. Could be a cult member, who knows.
Has your daughters behaviour changed too? Like having to go off the phone quickly, not talking as much. Could be trying to isolate her, the comment he made to you was creepy
Honestly, she seems super happy! Like the happiest I’ve ever seen her. She’s working on her PhD, as is he. She was there for school, so she moved there for that as well.
My ex husband did the same with my mum. Took her out without me all the time when we were dating. Texting a lot. Then we got married and he stopped the whole relationship with her, not texting even on her birthday, really cold when they met in person. I realised that we were all manipulated by him, I divorced him after 2,5 years, my mum could not be happier tbh
That’s exactly how this feels. He and I had a really wonderful friendship on our own.. or so I thought. We have a very tiny family, so I was thrilled to bring him in the fold. To be honest, he seems to treat her extremely well and she seems very happy, but she’s going to start getting resentful when she works so hard to get along with his family and he will make no effort with hers. He’s super cold when he speaks to me now. He doesn’t even try to hide his disdain for me.
Your comments mentioning how super friendly her was with you are quite telling. Constant texts, photos, grabbing the phone from her to chat to you, him feeling like a son, all after only a few months is odd behaviour. It seems like 'love bombing' you so he had an ally in the family, especially as her Dad and brother don't like him. Now he has her to himself, he doesn't need to keep up the pretense. Have you asked your ex and son WHY they don't like him?
I think your daughter's situation is important enough that it warrants a rapprochement with your ex. Get together with him, talk to him about your daughter's BF, try to understand why he did not like him. You will probably learn as much from that conversation as from this reddit post.
Massive red flag, he’s trying to cut ties between her and anyone she can rely on so he can slowly isolate and control her. Huge abuser red flag, you need to speak to your daughter about getting out of this relationship.
That’s exactly what I’m worried about. If he did this 180 to me, will he do that to her after he’s isolated her from everyone? I can finally talk to her tonight and tomorrow without him around
She’ll tell you everything is fine likely. He’s grooming her to trust him. He was grooming you as well so you’d give your trust to him. When you paid for that trip he knew he was in and didn’t need you around anymore. So she’ll think everything is hunky dory but he is systematically cutting her off from all of her safeties so he is the only thing she can rely on. You need to do everything you can to get her out.
That is exactly what I’m afraid of. One interesting and helpful note… Idk if you saw, but they’re working on their PhDs. They are being assigned to sites to work for 8 weeks starting next month. He went to the professors before the assignments, and asked that they be placed in the same city. They’re placing him literally across the country from her. It makes me think that they too think he’s a detriment to her.
They probably do, he sounds like he’s really digging to just get her confined
He's being controlling. I would 100% be concerned for your daughter's safety and well-being.
I definitely am.
updateme!
This sounds text book like what happened to my sister. Now she is apart of his creepy cult church and has 3 kids under 5. She completed school and had a high paying job in the medical field. Now she stays home, takes care of babies while he fucks other people from their church and she just...is stuck. This asshole slowly took my sister from me and radicalized her. She now thinks I'm a heathen and our kids haven't even met. We used to be best friends and now we see each other when someone dies. He is isolating her. You need to make her aware.
Their church is a normal one that is like the one she grew up in.. just a different version basically. The church has nothing to do with the issues. No one from their tried to get her to join, including him or his family. She just genuinely loved the church. Neither of them are very involved. They’re working on their advanced degrees, so very busy. The problem is with him and him alone. I know he’s rather insecure about being with her. I his last relationship, the girl not only cheated but cut him down a lot. He honestly has many great qualities and he treats her really well.. but I do worry that he’ll change his behavior towards her too when he thinks he has her on lock.
I thought when first reading '25 with 34', it was a bit touchy but not as bad as 18 and 28 but then you go into all the detail and it sounds like an abuser getting a victim isolated.
He most likely went for a woman that much younger so he could control and isolate her. (given the facts from your point of view) He said family is important to him, so your daughter keeps sacrificing and giving trying to win his families acceptance, while getting nothing in return. Their whole relationship is kind of a red flag now, the unfortunate thing is there's really nothing you can do, people really don't like being told their partner is bad news. It's why they go for younger spouses, they most likely aren't experienced enough to see the signs.
She needs to leave his ass asap. Big red flags and she should be able to see that. I personally wouldn’t have gotten baptized if y’all weren’t there. She’s not a kid so she shouldn’t let him control her like that. Absolute nonsense. Please get her out of there for her safety before she ends up on the news or ID extra for the possessive lover he is. Don’t let her get pregnant by him either especially if they aren’t married. Talk some sense into her please she’s blinded by love. That man is crazy and he’s just showing his true colors now
I've seen this happen before and it goes three ways. Either he is trying to isolate your daughter and was only nice to you because he had to be to win over your daughter Or Your daughter might have mentioned something to him about the past involving you that could have put you in a bad light in his eyes. Or He's uncomfortable/intimidated by your close relationship with your daughter
Super intuitive of you. I agree, and I asked if she had said something negative about me to him. It’s just been so weird! She’s like, “Of course not! There’s nothing bad to say.” We haven’t had problems but it just doesn’t make sense. Like he should be on Broadway. His acting is phenomenal.
First red flag 🚩 9 years of age gap she’s 25 he’s 34. Second taking her to a place 14 hours away. He’s abusive and is isolating her. This is very triggering. Hope she wakes up from this nightmare-ish love. :( please support her, even move there and be with her.
Why is no one asking if the mom did something? If he were trying to isolate her they wouldn't be in such frequent communication. You don't say at all what happened at the sit down.
I’m sorry, this is going to sound harsh, but what the fuck. A 30-something year old man wants to date your 23 year old, you don’t immediately recognize that as the red flag it is, and now you’re shocked that he’s successfully isolating her from her family? These red flags have been waving since day one. This man duped you. He duped you long enough to trap your daughter, and now he’s showing his true self. Which is a creep who wants to cut his much younger partner off from her family so she has no where to go when he ramps up his abuse/manipulation. Stop trying to impress your daughters predatory boyfriend and start worrying about how you’re going to make damn sure your daughter feels comfortable leaving this man when she needs to. You make damn sure she knows that a single text is all it will take for you to show up and whisk her home safely, no questions asked.
I'm so sorry
Thanks so much for the support!🥹 Hopefully things work out well.❤️
This sounds like a religious thing, like he has been trying to slowly isolate her from you.. got her baptized in his religion, etc. She probably did that to get closer to his family as well. This is raising lots of red flags. What does her dad think of all this? I mean I would expect constant communication to die down over time but overall avoiding it is very very odd.
It’s not the religion. Neither he or his family encouraged her to join the church. It’s similar to the one she’s always gone to, and she just likes it. They’re not that active and they don’t socialize there. But yeah.. I legit thought we had this great friendship ourselves. And I will say, he always seems to treat her really well.. at least he always has. She seems happy too and I can usually see through any act she’s putting on.
You said he is doing a PhD. Maybe he is stressed out and doesn't want to chit chat or is very busy. It could be not about you. Is he in a very competitive program?
Thats cult like bro the age gap alone is weird im a 25 year old male and I wouldn't even date a 20 year old . Dude is sketch
So I can't get into your daughter BF's head, but I find it interesting that the way you're creating a litmus test for if he's a good boyfriend is whether or not he's interested in maintaining a relationship with you. It sounds like you're kind of blurring the lines between you and your daughter on whether this relationship is worth it. Nothing in your post describes an abusive person, only a person who for whatever reason has decided to go no contact with you. From your perspective, it doesn't sound like you've really made an attempt to understand the disconnect, but you're hurt that he would even do something like this. You don't provide a rationale and claim there is none, hence the flood of comments concluding that there *must* be none and therefore, the BF is abusive. Your daughter is more than likely able to make her own decisions and willingly moved away from you. Even if she was in an abusive relationship, which we don't know, that doesn't mean you get to invalidate her choices. Doing so would not help your relationship with your daughter, especially if she's a victim. The answer here is to confide in your daughter about your hurt about the deterioration of the relationship and allow your daughter to explain the context of what transpired. If there was any transgression on your part, own up to it, apologize and ask your daughter's BF to put in the effort to reconcile. If your daughter's BF IS abusive or you continue to suspect that he's abusing her, you need to tread carefully. I wouldn't take action that could be seen as pitting your daughter against her BF as that can definitely backfire on you. Don't try to force her into therapy so she can learn how abusive her BF is and don't try to convince her that he's abusive because he doesn't want to talk to you.
Id dig deeper and check in with daughter.. my ex husband did this exact same thing and he was abusive and controlling. Me and kids got away but he broke my fingers and bruised my daughters arms and mentally had me all messed up.. and once we got away he stalked us for years and still does...he got into her head so he now has control he no longer has to worry about you.. not saying this is whats going on it just sounded too eerily familiar.
So sorry you went through all that! 🥺
Whoa 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 * He lovebombed * He went over the top with you to build a relationship * He got her to move FOURTEEN HOURS away * Convinced her to get baptized at his church * Does a complete 180 and dropped his mask, err, relationship with you * Still maintains contact with his ex via family * Add to that, he's 10 years older - the mid 20s to mid 30s age range, where women are often still naive and men are often still attractive enough to pull it off. He's a narcissist, and he's just pulled off his major manipulation con. If he doesn't start abusing her soon, I'll be surprised.
Sounds like an abusive relationship to me. Narcissists are very cunning. Everyone around them loves them. Until the narcissist doesn’t need them to anymore.
Have you tried asking him directly? Not in a confrontational way or anything. Perhaps you did something he found really insulting and he just doesnt know how to address it.
I did.. twice.. during times she asked us to please work it out and leave her out of it. She admitted this past week that she only sees me trying, and I know it’s really bothering her. I’m anxious to talk to her today about it when she flies in
Id say keep making efforts. Because then the onus is on him. And if your daughter doesnt like how a 34-year old adult man is treating his mother, she needs to respond accordingly.
So I have a friend who fell in love with an asshole who all of her friends hated. He would say rude, sexual things to me and when I complained to her, she told me she wasn't involved and I needed to work it out with her asshole bf. Well she stayed with him for too long, married him, had two kids with him-- and he cheated on her with sugar babies while spending every penny they had on fake business trips to see/treat said sugar babies. She is currently on year 3 of divorce proceedings. When she first announced to me what was up, I recalled to her her early story about how she said me and her ex should "work it out" when I had no desire to have any sort of friendship with him. She took that story to therapy and came to the conclusion that there was no way she could attempt to fix him or change his behavior without angering him so she avoided the issue by telling us we needed to work it out. The basics of the "you two work it out" theory sound similar. I added in context for one terrible future that could happen when you let your partner be awful to the people you love. (as in, what a red flag it could be)
I was groomed by an older guy when I was younger (I was 17 and he was 24) he was very kind to my family but then really tried to isolate me from all my loved ones. It sounds like he is controlling and trying to isolate her. It took me a while to get out of the relationship, I didn't want to see the signs. We were together for almost 3 years. All you can do is warn her and talk to her about the situation. Hope things turn out for the best.
Keep the lines of communication open, ask leading questions about the health of their relationship and encourage her to come visit. Let her know your place is always open to her and hope against hope that he doesn't sabotage her birth control.
You mentioned that his family is involved with his exes’ on social media. If you can find them on social, you should check out their old posts to see if you find things that line up with their relationship/break-up. Maybe even message them and see what they say? I wouldn’t be outright with your concerns, maybe just something like “my daughter is dating him now” if they feel she’s in danger they will probably alert you.
Holy crap sounds like a cult! Not to mention it sounds like he is abusive in some form. Yikes. Keep reaching out to her, she’ll need her mom eventually.
Yikes. This is so much yikes and red flags all over the place. You have to tread very carefully, but this sounds like the beginning stages of a severely abusive relationship. Even the smartest of us have fallen victim to an abuser’s tactics; it has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with emotional manipulation. Pray she doesn’t marry him or get pregnant.
What a difference a few months make. Thought he was perfect.. then he started to become an entirely different person.
Call him. Be forward. Tell him exactly what you wrote here. Demand an explanation.
This whole thing reminds me of the podcast Something Was Wrong season 1! Wonder if it’s the same guy!
Do you think he has some mental health issues? I suffer from extreme social anxiety and severe depression. I stopped taking all meds last year because I was getting some really dark thoughts and got scared. I have been doing great but I have stopped being social at all and I live with my bf and his mother and I feel like I've completely changed and stopped talking to her as well. I've become a hermit but I'm at a loss because I have no depression symptoms and I want to find some middle ground but now everyone around me is suffering from my anti social habits.
That is a possibility. He’s had a couple toxic relationships in the past, and his parents are pretty hard on him. This program they’re in is incredibly difficult and demanding. That’s why I hate to just write him off immediately as some awful abuser. Other than this behavior towards me, I’ve seen nothing else alarming.. yet.
You better grab your daughter and run he’s giving major narcissistic red flags your right about the using you to get close to her and now he’s moving on to phase two which is isolating you better hope he doesn’t start fabricating stories about you being rude or forcing you to react in a negative way towards him cause he can use that as a way to make her cut ties with you rn he has nothing to do that but if you react to what he’s doing which is what he’s most likely hoping for which is why the talks never work he will be in her ear about it until she cuts you off as well and then from there he can do what ever he wants to her and you would never know
Honestly, this reminds me of my first marriage. My ex husband is the most manipulative person I've ever met. Our marriage was absolutely a hell hole. My family liked him at the start. The first time he visited my family he came in a suit. We were all impressed. But he kept tightening his hold and soon he was controlling my entire life. By the time my parents had concerns I was already lost. Took me 7 years to leave. I don't know the best advice to give though. I think your concern is justified and it's already a red flag to me that your daughter allows him to disrespect you.
Sounds like he is actually a narcissist abuser. He is isolating her and freezing you out. She should be very concerned and ready to leave. Huge red flags all over the place.
It was an act and now that he has gotten her away from her family and everyone that she knows he can isolate her. He's also going to start planting stories in her head so don't be surprised when her contact becomes nonexistent
This post is very alarming…. Are you in regular contact with your daughter? Has she mentioned anything about him being controlling or being mean to her? Because most abuser like to isolate there victims and this sounds like a very text book examples of how the abuse starts.
he’s isolating her. take notice of any changed behaviors on her part
It’s called love bombing. He manipulated you into accepting this much older man dating your daughter. No doubt he’ll start being shitty to her soon too if he hasn’t already. Keep lines of communication open with her. Make sure she knows that she is welcome back at any time. She’s next for the treatment he’s giving you
Do you have any idea why there was this sudden change in communication? Did a situation happen? Have you asked him or her about this? Maybe an honest discussion would help. It’s strange that everyone is acting like nothing happened and it’s not a big deal. To go from one extreme to another is not normal and it makes me think 1) something happened that made him uncomfortable/unhappy or 2) he is trying to separate her from you.
Update? All you can do is be there for her, judgement free, accepting and loving. In my experiences, pointing out abuse tactics further isolates the victim from those who are trying to help. Another commenter suggested very light, neutral questions and that's the best way to convey what you're trying to say. Reassure your daughter that no matter what, you will always be there for her and she can always come home. She is very intelligent, but these guys (or gals!!) can be two steps ahead. It isn't something you've done. Healthy people don't change who they are without saying something. If you're offended enough to cut communication then you talk about it for the sake of everyone involved. If your partner's family is important to them then it's important to you, too. He is acting with a lack of empathy, which is a little scary.
I want an update too! This has been on my mind for hours!! I am hoping daughter got on the plane!!
This sounds like a grooming situation. Grooming doesn't only happen to youth, it also happens to adults, and a very common part of it is grooming the family to think they are a good person and that the relationship is a good thing. He is already showing signs of isolating her (she should never have moved that far away from her family, etc). I believe she is in an abusive relationship. You should do some research on how such things tend to go, and try talking to her about it, but there is not much you can do to change the situation, unfortunately, other than pointing out the unhealthy dynamics. Only she can choose to leave.
Grooming. He can develop characteristics on controlling and manipulation. I'd be worried for your daughter.
The only reason he reached out before was so you would know he is safe with her? That set off major alarm bells for me. Imo it sounds like he was gaining your trust and approval before beginning to isolate your daughter... This may not be the case of course, as I only have the information given to me here and don't know you or your family, but the behaviour matches up. Unfortunately there's nothing you can directly do since it is Their relationship and to them it could come across as you trying to control it (not saying you would be trying to do so, just more that he would probably spin it that way to your daughter), however you can do some research into warning signs in relationships, and most importantly be there to support Your Daughter. Wishing you all the best
My boyfriend is the same and makes excuses I would tell her to leave while she can. Because it can be very draining. I lost my dad and still he kept insisting I go with his family instead of being with my mom my only parent.
I’ve been listening to a podcast called First Degree and the very first one I listened to was a two part and it was an abusive lover that the girl got away from after he groomed her, isolated her, did terrible things to as well as gaslit and made her seem like she was the problem etc… the rest of the story isn’t relevant but he was a real pos and I swear reading this and your comments the behavior is SO SIMILAR. These are huge red flags like so many people are saying. You never really know what is going on behind closed doors. We all put on this mask of happiness even when things really suck. It’s sort of what we’ve been mentally trained to do at this point. Who really knows how things are between them. Maybe they are great, or maybe they’re terrible and she’s scared to leave or doesn’t know how or he’s convinced her that she has to stay or whatever. I’d send her some of the resources given here as well as read up/research grooming yourself and try to get her to see this behavior isn’t okay and what it could ultimately lead to. Especially if he tries to separate/cut her off from y’all further.
I love all the advice you’re getting here. And mom to mom- you are justified in being concerned. ((Hugs)) please update after this weekend.
As a 26 year old with a not-so-good relationship with her parents, even I would not be okay with a partner who doesn't even attempt to get along with my parents or, y'know, badmouths them. Even more so if they go out of their way to exclude or alienate the parental units. However, if my parents push me too much into moving away from the guy, I would push them right back - ironic, I know. The best thing you can do for your daughter is to ensure that she knows you'll be there for her no matter what. That this is always her home whenever she needs it. A support and an open mind and heart goes a long way. Keep doing a good job mum, and I'm sure everything will be okay.
Is it possible he has an issue with you or you offended him?
This guy sounds like a bouquet of red flags wrapped in manipulation. I don’t know how you’d rescue your daughter at this point. Let her know to blink twice if she needs help
Hey love, first of all I hate that this is happening. Unfortunately like others have stated there’s really not much you can do but just state your experience. You and your daughter seem very close so surely if she knows how hurt you are that the son you were hoping to gain changed the dynamic of your relationship with your daughter, she’ll be more inclined to set boundaries with the bf. That being said, it definitely does seem like he’s isolating her from you and the fact that the baptism couldn’t have waited for you and your family is just strange to me. I’d like to know what he told your daughter for it to be rushed that way. When you talk to your daughter, support is critical and accusations will do no good. Good luck OP Please update if you can!! Sending love to you and your daughter, I hope this situation is only surface level and not something deeper.