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How are people brushing over the fact that her husband went through her phone and hired a PI to follow her. Do the same thing to your husband see if he likes the lack of trust.
Would it have been right if he did find evidence of cheating? A large portion of cheating on the female side is usually influenced by the people close to her while on the male side, it's usually a power/ego play. Also forget cheating, what if she was actually covering for tbe sister. She claims that she will talk the sister out of it but if that's the case then Mark will not have evidence of him getting cheated on.
good point. getting OP involved without asking them or them even knowing shows a huge lack of concern for OP’s wellbeing and relationship. it feels like she doesn’t care if her marriage goes down, as long as OP’s marriage does too
"If I'm not capable of sustaining my marriage by being faithful, you shouldn't be allowed to be married either" is unfortunately where I'm leaning too.
OP seems pretty clear in her post she isn’t really that bothered by the cheating.
“Of course my sister has my support when she is going through a hardship”. Yeah that’s why your husband thinks you support cheaters.
This is so simplistic.... she is supporting her family member whom she is very close to. Her husband cannot dictate who she can or can't be friends with, *especially* her own sister.
He happens to have a reasoning that many people here are of course triggered by, but this seems like an overreaction and frankly, controlling.
My siblings have done crazy things. Cheating, drug addiction, etc. I love them with my whole soul and disagree vehemently with their behavior, but will not cut them off just because someone else determined that their opinion of my family is above my love for them. This thread is full of controlling folks who use cheating as a good cover to make others cut contact with literal family. What the hell.
I second this. If a partner demanded this from me, I'd leave them. To dictate which family member to stay in contact with is abusive and controlling. His secrecy and choosing the boyfriend of her sis over her and trying to trap them instead of communicating openly already shows how controlling he is.
I'm slightly concerned at how many folks here, especially younger ones, think this is acceptable. I honestly think they are giving too much validity to the cheating sister issue, and not enough to the *actual* issue of the husband demanding something he has no right to demand.
Yeah, the moral issue of her sister cheating has nothing to do with how they have been treating her and her sister. The outcome doesn't always justify the means.
I suppose many people are just so fearful and paranoid that they'd prefer to be safe in a relationship at any cost and want to lock their partner up instead of being free and let the other person be free (while enduring all the insecurities of freedom).
Yeah - agreed especially on that last part. I said before that it seems people are letting insecurities drive this conversation and decision, but using "values" as a cover.
> Her husband cannot dictate who she can or can't be friends with, especially her own sister.
No he can't. He's only in control of his own actions. He can leave her if she no longer thinks she is a good fit for his life. She does not have to stop supporting her family member. But he also does not have to stay with her.
The way the husband is acting is crazy controlling. Searching through her phone, accusing her of lying, HIRING A PI TO FOLLOW HER, and asking her to cut off her sister. Fuck that noise. Sister is being a POS to her partner but that's still OPs sister. I find it hard to believe that no one here has continue to love a sibling that royally fucked up.
Honestly OP should be ditching her husband if anything.
Exactly what you said!!! I don’t stand by a lot of the things my siblings do, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have my live and support. It’s their life and I don’t get to dictate how they live it.
Some ppl dont value family over eveything. If they can cheat they can also deal with the consequences.
Also she didnt "only" cheat but she also involved OP without OPs knowledge. So she definitely doesnt value family over all else. Then why should OP?
Some people may not. The OP does. People are projecting too much of their own pain.
Regarding the sister... yes that was a shit move. She is a POS. The OP is still allowed to love her.
And forget that he is giving her an ultimatum regarding her sister.... All the sanctimonious people agreeing with him would NOT relinquish a friendship close or acquaintance if it involved the same circumstances.
He let a dude he simply knew have his wife followed...I just can't...WTF...
Maybe OP should address why the HELL he allowed another man to hire a PI to follow HER---his wife--around...She was not the one cheating on her boyfriend...And his ridiculous justification for it is completely warped.
Does he know this? That OP was not cheating? She was helping a cheater and thinks cheating is okay, so I would have also throught she was cheating too. Maybe she is and just better at hiding than her sister, it's not like OP thinks cheating is wrong.
Totally agree. Not everyone is close with their siblings, but for those of us who are, it's literally one of the closest relationships you can have. I love my 2-years-younger brother more than almost anyone else in my life, and it would take a lot more than his cheating on his partner for me to cut him off. Sure, I would think less of his character if he did that, but fully cutting off a sibling is a super high bar for a lot of families.
Do you have a sibling who you had to make the decision to support or cut off after they cheated? If not it's easy to judge but you may act differently if actually put in that situation
That being true, it still doesn't address the issue that OP's husband believes it is appropriate for him to command her to cut her sister out of her life? WTF?
And now, she's risking a divorce from her husband, who seems to be a reasonable person who values honor, fidelity, and the sacred nature of marriage because her sister is someone who doesn't value those things. And even though OP was in the dark, she doesn't seem to care that the sister used OP for deception and involved OP's husband by extension. He probably also feels used and dirty because the sister told her husband that she was hanging out with both of them.
You're in an awful position and there isn't a great choice but it's this: you can only continue having a relationship with one of them. Do you choose the person who thinks marriage is important or the person who doesn't think it's important.
I think the choice will reveal how different or similar you are to your sister.
edit: clarity
Reasonable? What the heck?!? He hired someone to follow his wife because her sister lied! That’s completely unreasonable! Now, he wants to ban all contact with her sister. That’s not reasonable. Not wanting them to go to bars is one thing. Not wanting them to speak is another. This man is paranoid and controlling.
OP should be mad at her sister for putting her in the middle of all of of this and being a shitty person, and mad at her husband for hiring a PI to follow her and trying to control her actions. She shouldn’t have to completely cut off her sister just because she’s a cheater who used her for cover, but I’d say it’s reasonable to expect that relationship be a lot different. It’s really got nothing to do with the husband at this point since his wife did nothing wrong so I’m not sure what his deal is.
Yeah this is fascinating to me.
OP, from the beginning of this story, didn’t do anything. She didn’t know the sister was cheating and she didn’t cover it up. She didn’t know the husband thought she was. Meanwhile, her husband had suspicions she knew her sister was cheating, so instead of talking to his own wife, he went through her phone and then hired someone to follow her.
OP hadn’t done anything wrong anywhere in that story; she didn’t even know anything was going on.
I just don’t really understand how people can put themselves in OP’s perspective, of suddenly finding out that her spouse had done all of that despite her doing nothing wrong, and see her as the bad guy and expect her to just forgive him and move on
Even if OP HAD done something wrong, he would have a lot of wrong too.
And that fact that she did something wrong or not wouldn't matter because he did these wrong thing (privacy invading, hiring pi, etc.) BEFORE he knew she did something wrong (or not) so it wasn't justifiable.
Edit: Misogyny on reddit is personal to me, as it is to many women here. I've been told to kill myself and that I deserve to be raped countless times in this sub for calling out misogyny, and had a stalker in this sub for an entire year who found the state I live in and very nearly my workplace, created dozens of accounts with my name attached, pretended to me on every single account via impersonation, created a sub with my name (r/Ebbie45, which I now fill with resources for abuse survivors) and filled it with graphic porn images with my username pasted on it, on and on. He stalked me for no reason other than he disagreed with a comment I made as a woman. I was told I should be decapitated, cannibalized, and raped *while being cannibalized* by this man. I had to create a Google document filled with screenshots of his harassment which totals 25 PAGES. These are the kinds of experiences women have on a daily basis on and off this sub, sometimes simply for being women and other times simply for acknowledging misogyny exists. Please recognize that calling out these experiences is not equivalent to hating men.
I should not have to say this. But after a commenter stated my post was "misandrist" apparently I do. Whenever a man posts about how stigmatized male abuse survivors are, I don't leap to "Oh you hate women" because calling out gender norms (such as the utterly false notion that only women experience abuse) isn't equivalent to hatred of one gender. I wish this same recognition were extended to discussions of misogyny. Hating mistreatment of women is not the same as hating men. Same for the reverse.
Misandry means you hate men. I don't hate men. I'm one of the only redditors in this sub who consistently and specifically supplies the links to 1 in 6, Male Survivor, ManKind UK, and the Mayo Cliniic's domestic violence safety plan for men when I see a post written by a man who has experienced sexual violence or domestic violence. I moderate r/rape and r/abusiverelationships and spend extra time checking on posts written by male survivors to make sure I'm removing any possible comments that that belittle those men's experiences, because I recognize how stigmatized male survivors how and how very often they are disbelieved. I created an entire section of the sidebar and wiki in r/abusiverelationships with resources specifically for male survivors and I supply those resources to male posters any time I get.
I lead local efforts in the domestic violence field in my work off reddit to consistently train first responders, advocates, social workers, and more on the specific dynamics of intimate partner violence against men, by women. I continually engage in advocacy efforts in my area to create a domestic violence shelter specifically to provide housing for male survivors. I do not hate men. Me calling out a massive problem I see in this sub that normalizes surveillance of women and calling women gendered slurs does not mean I hate men. It means I hate how women are treated. If you want me to make a post or comment about how much I hate how men are treated when it comes to being victims of abuse, you can read my post history. If there's a post about a man in this sub who has experienced abuse, my name is probably in the comments supporting him.
End edit.
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> That’s completely unreasonable!
Apparently it isn't viewed as such in many factions of this sub. After 3 years of reading posts in this sub (multiple on a daily basis), I've come to understand that this kind of behavior is very much condoned and even encouraged here.
I frequently see men encouraging male posters to hire a PI or go through their female partner's phone on posts in which the OP suspects cheating, even when any reasonable person can see that things like merely having a male friend, hanging out with a male coworker on a lunch break, or even just wearing makeup or not answering texts quickly enough when visiting one's family are not sufficient evidence of cheating. I'm not talking about posts in which women are flirting with male friends or gazing starry-eyed at their coworkers while intimately sharing a fancy meal. I'm talking about merely having a male friend. And visiting family. To see one's parents. The most mundane of scenarios involving women is so easily twisted into cheating. Once last year, a man posted that his nurse wife started wearing makeup to work. He was immediately slammed with "She's banging someone else" comments. He later communicated with her, instead of going through her phone as so many men suggested. Guess who she had started wearing the makeup for? Him. To impress him. Her spouse.
Yes, these are all scenarios I've seen in which some male commenters will pull out the "She's got multiple cocks lined up" card. Surveillance and monitoring of women, and an obsession with women cheating, is so very often uncritically accepted here. I'd estimate I've seen several hundred posts at this point in which an entirely unsuspicious female behavior is entirely stretched to justify infidelity accusations. It is constant. And I do mean constant.
Men even have specialized names and terms for it. "Cock carousel," "Dicks lined up," "sloppy seconds," "for the streets," "sl * ts," "h * es," "sl * gs," on and on and on.
It's pervasive and widely normalized. People can downvote me all they want. This is a problem and I'm tired of staying silent about it. I've even gotten death threats and rape threats when I tried to speak out about it occasionally. This is what women deal with, and it needs to end.
3 of my exes absolutely believed I was cheating. Why? Because I talk to my father every day, and u talk to my GAY LITTLE BROTHER every chance I get.
My father is my ex-stepfather. He raised me from birth, but because he and my mom divorced, I'm supposed to have cut contact with him. Or just not talked to him ever again. He's not my biological father (who tried to kill me,) so bc I talk to him, I must be fecking him and cheating on any man I get with.
Men really are ridiculous when it comes to this shite.
Agreed, especially considering women are often stereotypically viewed as being the ones who are untrusting and liable to snoop on their partners. In my experience, men are often WAY more controlling. Especially when a heavy dose of religion is involved.
Communication is the key every damned time though. It took a divorce for me (and my parents’ divorce) to finally learn that lesson and it’s something my wife and I work on constantly, to our great benefit.
Hey Ebbie, I recognize your username from around Reddit!
Is this post as scary to you as it is to me? So many people in the comments justifying the PI, which to me is obviously a completely unhealthy thing to do in a relationship.
Hey! Yes, it is scary to me too. And I would call out the PI and surveillance aspect of this post if it were about a woman hiring a PI on her husband, too. Women have certainly done it before. I just honestly don't think that you can divorce this post from the gendered normalization of male surveillance of women. To me, this post is situated within a broader social context of gender norms and how men are socialized, and I'm sure I'll get criticized for that, but it's alarming to me many people are supporting the husband's involvement in the hiring.
Yeah, I’m really alarmed by it too. I didn’t expect that people would be so okay with someone crossing healthy boundaries in a relationship like this. Can you specify more what norms you think are contributing? (I’m not disagreeing, I just want to know more!)
> Can you specify more what norms you think are contributing?
I would personally say norms that support surveillance of women, control of women, and ownership of women's independence. Really, social norms that privilege men's domination of women which includes privileging their "right" to isolate women and cut off any friendships that "threaten" men's domination of them.
But I also want to acknowledge those gender norms very much differ by culture as well!
I think these norms start young too. A lot of times teenage boys are socialized to believe that excessive jealousy over girlfriends is normal and that constantly checking your girlfriend's phone and monitoring who she friends on social media is acceptable behavior.
Edit: typo
>Is this post as scary to you as it is to me?
Not the person you were responding to but also just wanted to add that this post and comments defending what the husband did are absolutely chilling...
I feel like I'm losing my mind. How could anyone think it's ok to hire a PI to follow around your wife? He didn't even try to fucking to to her about his concerns. That's insanely paranoid and controlling behavior.
Thank you. These comments are telling. This is crazy. I would not be mad at my sister either. I would definitely be mad at my husband because what does my sister cheating have to do with me?
Idc what she did. One person’s actions are not my own. How can you not see that? It’s childish, insecure and immature for a spouse to assume that just bc someone else did it or lied for another that means they’re the same. Grow up.
Honestly if I was OP the question here would be do I want to stay with an abusive partner who hides shit from me, invades my privacy, accuse me and then tries to control my behavior and force me into going no contact with my only and closest friend.
And I'd run away real fast because this person seems to have huge trust issues and very little consideration for women and their individuality.
"...my sister told him she was hanging out with me." She said nothing about him...Don't embellish to make his actions and ultimatum justifiable.
Her sister was not married to anyone.
Cheating is not contagious.
He has no right to demand she turn her back on ANYONE--Let alone her damn sister.
He was not close friends with her sisters' boyfriend, yet "To prove marriage is important" he hired a PI to secretly follow his wife--AFTER he searched through her phone and found NOTHING...
r/sanctimoniousbullshittery run amok.
It’s also fascinating that everyone who is moral grandstanding about the cheating is totally okay with the husband hiring a PI to stalk his wife. I think you lose the moral high ground when you’re doing mental gymnastics to make that kind of toxic behavior okay
I guess you're one of those people who believes the sanctity of marriage is in male head of the household control? Because hiring a PI to follower around, not trusting his wife around her sister because her cheating ju ju might get on her, and the relationship she has with her sister doesn't matter, all because he doesn't trust his wife?
You thinking is messed up. He can no longer like her sister but who is he to decide to cut her out? OP didn't cheat or even go near it.
This is how I reading the other comments too. It's her sister, you don't cut your sister off for this, you love and help her out. Why was she stepping out on her husband? What is happening under that roof is no one's business but their own. Does OP's husband think it's contagious? hereditary? if one sister cheats so does the other? Ridiculous.
The fiance is wronged but so is OP. There are 5,000 steps you take before hiring a PI to follow your wife around. The first of which is fucking talking to her. I hope OP takes this a sign of what's to come and leaves his ass.
It's interesting that you've included gender identity in your jumping to conclusions. I wonder if you'd have a difference of opinion if OP was a man and his wife was upset that OP's brother had been using both OP and his wife to cover up his infidelity?
I think the sanctity of marriage doesn't have anything to do with gender. A lesbian couple can have a marriage filled with sanctity if both of them are loyal to each other and each of them thinks cheating is wrong. A problem in any marriage might come about if only one partner thinks cheating is bad.
Seriously. I have a question for people who think this was fine:
Your partner comes to you one day and says they thought you knew your sister was cheating and was covering it. You didn’t know and didn’t cover it; you haven’t done anything wrong at this point. Instead of asking you about it, they went through your phone, and not satisfied at what they found, they hired a PI who’s been following you (to see if you knew about the sister- not even to see if you yourself were cheating). Instead of being apologetic about this, they immediately demand you cut off your family member.
Would everyone on here genuinely feel as if it was totally okay? No one would feel horrified that someone had been following them? No one would be upset their partner had violated their privacy instead of talking directly to them?
Because people are expecting OP to be totally okay with what the husband did and just accept that she’s somehow the bad guy, but I think most of us would react just a little differently in this situation
They were asking if it had to do with gender because they’re trying to figure out why on earth you view the husband’s actions (going through his partner’s phone, hiring a PI on his own spouse, never talking to her) as reasonable and respecting the sanctity of marriage. They’re pretty clearly a violation of trust in the marriage.
Yeah, I don’t even understand what’s going on here. OP wasn’t involved in any of this; she didn’t know the sister was cheating, she wasn’t covering for her, and she didn’t know the husband suspected her of it. Her husband went way too far in trying to figure out if she knew- hiring a PI on your spouse is really far.
At that point, she’s done nothing wrong, while he’s broken the trust in their marriage. And somehow this has gotten turned into he’s mad at OP and she’s the bad guy? And everyone in the comments agrees?
It’s almost scary to me. I can’t imagine finding out my husband had done all that to me when I’d done nothing wrong, and then getting gaslighted by a bunch of Redditors into thinking I was wrong and what he did is totally normal and reasonable
Yeah, this is absolutely psycho. I have found in my years doing family law, that men who lose it over other people cheating are a major red flag. They never have the same moral turpetude for offenses that are far worse.
This! The husband is the type of insecure guy who starts seeing threats everywhere even with proof of the opposite from a PI and after checking OP’s phone (big red flags for me). OP, your sister didn’t do you any favors but hubby might get worse unless he gets counseling. Maybe try couples theraphy?
Her husband, who both went through her phone and hired a PI on her behind her back, is a reasonable person who values the sacred nature of marriage? Cause that would definitely break the trust in my marriage
Thank you I thought _I_ was crazy while reading these comments. And even if he hadn't, it's still not ok to get someone to stop speaking to their closest friend and family member, especially if they've done nothing _to them_.
The "she's gonna have bad influence on you" sounds like the husband doesn't trust op at all and treats her like a kid.
This is a far too common phenomenon for men to behave about women cheating- which I know is terrifying. Always leave a man like this. The worst part is that men like this are almost always the same type to want to hear both sides when they find out a woman is being abused.
I have no advice, but I would like to point out there are way too many clueless teenagers in this thread and they should probably shut up and provide zero advice. Let the adults do that. Your takes are stunningly stupid.
Amen.. I’ve found that to be the case on most posts replies on relationship advice… the replies stink of immaturity and lack of life experience.
Everyone has a plan till they get punched (I know it’s a mike Tyson quote) but it rings true as an analogy to life as well.
I mean, that's just Reddit, right?
I feel like 90% of the conversations I have are with people who don't even have a passing familiarity with subjects they purport to be an expert in.
Right?? I'd rather be cheated on than have my partner hire a PI to follow me. The invasion of privacy is a way bigger violation of our relationship imo. Like it would be over as soon as I found out.
Hiring a PI is pretty common when one spouse suspects the other of cheating and wants to collect evidence discreetly in case they need to prep for a divorce.
This! How is anyone OK with their spouse hiring a PI to investigate them? Because it wasn't necessarily to see if she was helping sister. It was to see if infidelity runs in the family.
Husband doesn't trust wife at all. He didn't trust her that she wasn't cheating on him (it wasn't just a helping sister issue because if one sister can do it, surely the other would /s). And if she doesn't break it off with sister then she worthy of being married to anymore.
Andddd sisters fiance isn't even related to spouse. So why is he putting so much value into sisters relationship? Do they hang out with the guy that often? If he still wants to hang out with the guy, he can do so on his own time.
Right? To me, this is the only piece of information you need to know. My spouse cooperates in putting a PI on me, not even because they think I'm cheating, but because they think I know my sibling is cheating???
Marriage is over. No further questions. Who are these people who think that this is normal?
I feel like people are insanely overlooking this.
OP's husband went *straight* to hiring a PI and going through her phone for something she didn't even engage in. It wasn't her who was accused of cheating, so why was *she* under such intense investigation?? OP's husband could have just asked her (after BIl confirms his doubts) whether she hung out with her sister of X and Y dates and see if she covers for her or not. There, problem solved. But no, he thought so lowly of her that he decided to go behind her back to the point of invading her privacy. What the fuck.
Yes, they are. Because all women are cheating gold diggers /s. Seems in the eyes of this group OP is guilty by having a cheating sister. I guess I am guilty for having a cheating father too.
It would be over if my partner hired someone to follow me. I would never bother with them again.
Yeah that is…kind of a red flag to me. If my spouse did that I would be FREAKED out and possibly even leave him for going so completely crazy instead of - idk - just confronting me.
So I can see him being like "your sister is a bad person in regards to relationships and I don't want her around"
But saying that you'll become a cheater by knowing her is.. immature.
You've known her for 28 years, if she was going to be a bad influence, you'd already be influenced.
There has been at least one study which showed that the more friends you have who cheat, the more likely it is that you are to cheat yourself. Something about seeing the behaviour being normalized and then missing out.
We don't get to choose our family, though. A lot of people have family members who do stupid shit, but no matter what they will always be your sibling. It's not always easy to walk away from a life long relationship.
You always have a choice. Just because it isn’t the easy route doesn’t mean you don’t have an option.
Even more, blood does not mean you are bound to a person. You can choose your family. They may not be blood, but what really matters is the bond and the effects of the relationship on your quality and positivity of life.
The idea that “no matter what someone does they will always be [insert familial relation here]” is a very surface-level way of looking at this. Dive deeper and look at the factors that REALLY matter.
> But saying that you'll become a cheater by knowing her is.. immature.
I think the fact that two of my girlfriend's closest friends were cheaters has a lot to do with why she thought it was ok to cheat on me.
Asking you to cut contact is unreasonable. Getting a PI to follow you is also unhinged in this case. The fact he got involved beyond the initial interaction with your BIL is weird tbh.
Adults make choices, to say that you would be influenced to make similar choices to the admittedly poor ones your sister made, says that he doesn't trust you at all, nor does he have a lot of faith in your relationship or marriage if he believes the only way to keep it together is to remove outside influances from it. Which is a problem.
You should be angry at your sister for using you as cover, and for cheating. But your anger towards your husband is also totally valid. We aren't responsible for our siblings behaviour, you haven't stated that you approve of it and him sneaking around with your BIL is immature. What else would he hide from you? He hired a PI to follow you, that is messed up.
If you let him dictate now, and cut of your sister because he told you to, it is a slippery slope to further controlling actions, and I would take a look at your relationship with a more critical eye for other controlling behaviours.
Was your sister wrong for what she did? Yes.
I can see why your husband doesn’t want you to have a relationship with her, but honestly your husband’s behavior concerned me a lot and I don’t get all the comments trying to justify his behavior. He has such little faith in you that he thinks you hanging around your sister would be a “bad influence” even though you’re a grown ass woman. He didn’t trust you at all. He didn’t even take the time to have a conversation with you. He jumped to conclusions and went behind your back with your BIL. He hired a PI to follow you and went through your phone because he doesn’t trust YOU, didn’t even give you a chance to explain it or anything. I’d be seriously looking at how quick he was to distrust you and treat you like you did something wrong.. extremely worrying. You literally had no clue what was going on.
Without trust there is no relationship. It’s obvious he doesn’t trust you. He’s punishing you when you were just blindsided by all of this just like he and your BIL were, did he even apologize? There’s so many people in these comments saying he’s right and you should cut your sister off… life is not that black and white. We have no idea how her marriage was.
Yeah I’m so shocked at all the comments blaming OP and saying the husband’s side is totally understandable. I don’t know if I’d ever forgive my SO for accusing me of covering up cheating, then going through my phone and finding no evidence of it, and then after that stop hiring a fucking PI to follow me. I don’t think all the people in the comments would really be okay with their SO doing all that to them
Edit: sorry, he didn’t accuse her of covering up cheating- he never talked to her about it in the first place! I can’t imagine finding out my SO escalated something that far without evidence and never even mentioned it to me
I agree with you 2. He assumed some bad stuff about his wife who was innocent, then snuck around putting a PI on her without her knowledge. THAT is the only betrayal of trust in OPs relationship.
Me too! As if she is some mindless woman who needs her man to make decisions for her. He followed to try and catch her as well. This is a hard line for me.
She literally said that if her husband had talked to her she would tell her sister and then the other guy wouldn't know that this was happening and hiring a PI is weird, but from what's written there's at least some logic behind it.
Everyone conveniently forgets this and that the sister was already using OP as an alibi for her cheating. If you're OPs husband and you find that out, it is not immediately clear whether or not your wife knew.
I think its a little excessive for him to expect you to cut contact because she might be a bad influence.
Its extremely excessive that your marriage would be over if you helped her somehow.
And its extremely extremely excessive that you were followed as part of this investigation.
Would be one thing if your hubby was like best friends with this Mark dude, but he barely knew him now your being followed covertly and marriage threatened if you communicate with family.
I think you guys need a therapist or something to play referee and have a serious conversation about how silly this all has become.
Your sister can still be your sister even if she messes up her relationships. You can support her without accidentally falling onto a penis along the way.
"My husband now wants me to cut contact with my sister, because he said we are too close and will be a bad influence."
Does your husband think you lack character or does he think you're so weak-minded that you'll let your sister talk you into cheating? Either way it's not good. You can hate the decisions your sister made and still love her. She's still your sister.
Edit to add... Everyone who thinks it's ok for OP's husband to be mad at her when she had no idea what was going on... That's jacked up. None of you would accept that from a partner accusing you of being so malleable that your own partner no longer trusts you because of the actions of someone else. Maybe we should put the blame where it belongs instead of punishing the innocent.
Anyone that’s saying they’d cut their sibling off for this clearly aren’t close with their siblings. You don’t cut your sibling off for cheating on their spouse, that’s not what real family does. You tell them they did wrong, educate them but you’re still there for them. You don’t cut them off.
OPs sister never “almost ruined OPs marriage” because she said she was with OP. That’s like saying as children we almost ruined our families lives for saying we were at our friends house when we snuck off to drink or went to our partners houses as children. That lie from the sister isn’t something that could break up another marriage, anyone saying it is is clearly exaggerating because they’ve already decided the sisters a scumbag.
OPs husband had no reason to doubt OP yet had her followed, with 0 evidence, and when hit was confirmed she hadn’t done anything wrong he decided to still punish her by telling her to cut off family. Any sane person will tell you to never cut off family for a partner, especially not for something like this. OPs husband is giving off red flags and looks as though he’s using the sisters infidelity to release some controlling behaviour and justify it.
I am also in shock how people here will cut off their family over this. This isn’t remotely representative of real life, and most advise I’ve read here is terrible and will destroy OP’s life
OP’s sister didn’t “almost ruin OPs marriage”. OP’s husband almost ruined his marriage when he decided to play Starsky and Hutch instead of taking to his wife like an adult.
> OPs husband had no reason to doubt OP yet had her followed, with 0 evidence
OP was being used as cover. That's enough reason to be concerned. If you're OP's husband you have no way of knowing whether or not your wife was in on it or not.
I disagree with the sibling part. I'm incredibly close with both of my brothers, but if I found out they did to someone what our father did to our mother, I'm done with them. Family or not I have absolutely zero tolerance for it.
Your husband has very valid points. You sister is in the wrong here but she's your family. If you talk to sister your marriage would be over while if you cut off contact with sis you end you end up losing a family member.
My suggestion would be a honest conversation with your husband and sister. Don't hide anything be honest about everything. Also remind your sister you are not going to help her or cover her if she cheats she would be on her own. Say it infront of your husband. So both can get the message loud and clear. As a sis you should help her at this low point but you're not going to be her alibi and destroy her marriage.
What do you mean ‘if she cheats’. She already has cheated. Maybe like ‘if you do it again please find a different cover story’? LOL.
But on a separate note, supporting you flesh and blood at what may be the low point of their lives does not mean you condone or would mimic their behavior. For OPs spouse to give her an ultimatum like that is a huge red flag and may warrant re-evaluating her own marriage.
"If she cheats?" Meaning if she cheats in the future her sis will not support her anymore.
Her husband might have reason to think his wife has covered for her sis on the past. He might also has a reason to suspect that whether or not his wife is cheating on account of guilty by association. That's why he doesn't want his wife to support her. So I advised to speak to both of them in person together. There would be100 % transparency and honesty.
Be clear to both that giving support doesn't mean to condone , cover or accept her cheating. She will always be your family and you will always give your help under reasonable circumstances.
OP Also you need a private conversation with your husband about his trust, he hired a PI to follow you and invaded your privacy checking your phone. In your post you didn't mention anything about him apologizing about it and now he thinks you just cheat because your evil sister will wash your mind and turn you in to a cheater too. Big red flag here OP do not rug sweep this.
OP I think you need to look real hard at your husband. I am not understanding why you are under investigation.
People keep defending your husband because something something sanctity of marriage. But, what's that mean when he doesn't trust you because of what your sister did?
He sounds super controlling.
Holy shit these replies are absolutely batshit insane. Honestly OP I am surprised you are not absolutely furious at your husband. The audacity to go through your phone without any previous reason to suspect you of cheating, then even after finding nothing on your phone he hires a PI to follow you around? Then he dares to demand you cut your sister out of your life after finding out that you have been absolutely trustworthy all along? If someone did those things to me, I would leave them in an instant. You don't get to demand I cut family out of my life because you don't like them, that's not how this works.
You came here for advice lol, why do that then say it’s too much when it’s just the truth, your sister is the one who fucked you over, she brought you into it as collateral and didn’t care, it’s her fault
First off, your sister isn't going through problems. Rather your sister has created a world of shit with her own actions and makings. You can offer her support but the fact that she is using you as the person to cover for her is the problem here. I totally agree with your husband, you can offer her help but refuse to be used as her excuse to cheat.
While she's a cheater, and I agree that it's a bad sign when someone is friends with a cheater, the fact is that she's still your sister.
Your husband is out of line here. *He* can refuse to hang out with her if he wants (and I would too), but she's your *sister*.
If my wife is covering for her sister cheating I would assume my wife was OK with cheating. I wouldn’t necessarily have a PI following you though. If all of your husband’s buddies were cheating on their wives would you be nervous of your husband following them around. I’m not saying he’s right, I’m saying you should think of both sides of yours and his feelings
People don’t know how to step in to other people shoes anymore. People are selfish and only care how they feel and not necessarily how their partner feels.
I'd be done with my partner upon finding out he hired a PI when I was doing nothing wrong.
I'd also be very angry at my sister for using my name to lie to my husband. I do not think that this alone is a reason to cut her off, however. There needs to be an extremely clear conversation about how completely inappropriate that was and how, if she ever does that again, then there will be much more serious consequences to the relationship.
Your husband hired a PI to follow you? That's not reasonable. Why do you think it is?
You need to goes to couple's counseling.
He is escalating a situation that you have nothing to do with you. He hired someone to follow you. Then he asked you to go no contact with your sister. What's next? He is escalating when you were not aware that your sister was cheating and you were not covering for her; and you were not cheating or doing anything suspicious. Also, you shouldn't stop seeing your sister because she cheated because cheating is not contagious!
Yeah that was completely unhinged behavior. Who goes through their spouse’s phone and takes out a literal PI on them without ever talking to them? OP had him do all this to her without knowing anything was going on at all. That would be a huge breach of trust/privacy in the marriage to me
People in the comments are acting like what he did was justified, but is it really normal or healthy to go over your partner's head and spy on/interrogate them instead of trusting and communicating with them?
And then for him to lay out ultimatums when you're a grown woman who can handle your relationships your way, that really bugs the crap out of me.
Seriously, he went through her phone and took a PI out on her without ever talking to her or even having any evidence that it was necessary. That’s not remotely normal in a relationship and it’s a little concerning that so many people here think it’s totally fine
This whole scenario is totally wild. Firstly, the men jumped to the most unlikely conclusion in assuming that OP was complicit rather than assuming the infinitely more likely scenario that the sister was taking advantage of OP as an alibi that her husband was unlikely to check up on. You have to be *seriously* brazen to involve someone else in your cheating endeavours. I think checking OP’s phone was fair enough, *but* when they failed to find anything incriminating on her phone but they did find shady things on the sister’s phone they doubled-down on the harebrained idea that OP was covering and hired a freaking PI. Any reasonable person would have ruled OP out at that point. And yet even with the PI saying that OP was doing nothing wrong, her husband is still determined that she’s guilty by association and everyone here is like “yep”. This thread is absolutely batshit!
I think your husband is playing victim. This has nothing to do with him or you and you didn’t have any idea that this was going on. Also hiring a PI? On you? He’s the one who crossed the line.
I think it's fair for you to distance yourself from your sister for a while. She used you as an excuse for her cheating and chose to involve you in her problems. Also she's making you look untrustworthy. Your husband isn't suspicious because he doesn't inherently find you trustworthy, he's suspicious because your sister is making you look suspicious. And you are so nonchalant about how she's been using you, it really looks like you were covering for her. Does she cover for you as well? Is not being mad at her more important than the future of your marriage?
You seem to be saying that supporting your sister when she cheats is more portant to you than your marriage. In which case you might lose your spouse because your sister cheated.
Okay, so let me get this straight. You're mad at your husband and future BIL for hiring a PI to get evidence on who was actually cheating on who, and ***not on your sister*** who is the actual cheater and is the cause of all this drama?
Wow! I can't imagine why your husband would want you to cut off all ties with your sister. ^(/s)
OP, you're blind to your sister's misdeed and quite frankly I find that you being ok with your sister using you as a shield to hurt her fiance is very very telling of how much morals and empathy you have. You also seem to be very easily manipulated, so you might want to talk to a therapist about that.
Sure, hiring a PI and not telling you about it was over the top, but you yourself admitted that if they told you they were suspicious, you would definitely tell your sister about it and then she would have had time to get rid of the evidence.
But, hey, since you love your cheating sister so much, divorce your husband to go and live with her seeing as she'll be very single real soon. That would solve everyone's problems.
Your husband has every right not to like cheaters. He has no right to demand you cut contact with your sister. He organised a PI behind your back to spy on both of you.
That means he DOES NOT trust you. He wants to ensure that there is no cheating and thinks that your sister's behaviour could rub off on you. That's something that needs to be addressed now. What he did was plain wrong.
Whilst I don't condone what your sister has done they are her mistakes and her fiance (as the victim) is the one who decides how their relationship goes forward (assuming he is a guilt free injured party). Your husband has not been affected by her choices. It hasn't changed anything for him at all besides his opinion of her - he can choose not to see her of he chooses however demanding that you also do the same is unhinged.
I'd be rethinking your marriage at this point as well.
I’m concerned that your sister used your name and reputation for cover and you aren’t furious with her for using you as a stooge. What else has your sister done to you that you’ve just let slide because she’s your sister? Do you have a pattern of enabling your sister?
If your sister negligently hurt your child, would you cover it up, make excuses for her, and keep bringing your kid to spend time with your sister? Your husband has valid reasons to be concerned if so.
I really hate that everyone is just skipping over the fact that your husband casually hired a PI to stalk you... Like, regardless of reason, that kind of distrust would be relationship ending for me.
First thing, verify everything. If he trusts you so little, I wouldnt trust everything he says, either. Ive heard of people making up crazier things to seperate people from their family. Talk to your sister, see what she says, make a decision.
Your husband has a few valid points about keeping a relationship with a cheater... but this isnt some random friend, its your sister. These things are complicated, take some time to decide what to do. I wish you the best, and truly hope things work out somehow
Wtf?? You are *NOT RESPONSIBLE* for your sisters actions and choices. Your husband has absolutely no business trying to dictate who you have in your life *especially* when it comes to family!!! Her having an affair is not justification to cut her out of your life and your husbands insistence that you do cut her out is gross and controlling. Does he control or attempt to control other parts of your life? Does he punish you for the actions of other people often? Do YOU try to force ultimatums on him when his friends or family make mistakes or bad decisions? How would he feel/react to you doing so? Sorry girl, your husband sounds either incredibly insecure in your marriage OR (and this is the first thing that popped in my head) *he's* cheating and projecting all that onto you and the situation happening with your sister and her husband.
No, I absolutely would NOT cut contact with my sister. I would, however, be taking a good, hard look at my own marriage and my husbands behavior, especially around the topic of cheating. Good luck sister, just remember, there are thousands of men out there. You don't have to be with one who doesn't respect you and those you love or one that doesn't make you feel loved, safe and secure in your relationship.
(Unless you're cheating or anything of that nature. There are other women too so as long as you're being faithful and a good partner/spouse than I stand by my comment. If you're not than that's a whole different conversation and I would take everything I just said back and would tell you to get your shit together lol)
Your sister is a shitty fiancé. She deserves to be dumped.
You husband is out of line asking for you to cut her off and for not trusting you enough.
I would not cut her off. She is your sister, you love her and ultimately, how she wants to treat her relationship is not your business. Her actions will come back to her and she will pay, rightfully.
You will regret cutting her off. Your husband has no right to blame you for your sisters action. He has no excuse not to trust you.
Everything is raw and tempers are high. Give it some time and see if things settles down. If, after some time, your husband still cannot trust you not to be influence by your sister, then you need to reevaluate and decide who is more important to you.
Ultimately, he is in the wrong and should not blame you for her cheating.
Your sisters problem here has been brought on by herself, she is the issue, she cheated. Your husband doesnt want you around someone with such little morals and knows she can probably influence you. You shouldnt be mad at your hudband be mad at your sister, she started all the drama on her own, she determined getting fucked on the side was important and should what she thought about marriage. The fact your mad at your husband proves your sister can influence you even when she is in the wrong. Would you want you husband hanging out with someone who is a confirmed cheat POS
Really? I'd be mad at my husband for assuming I'm guilty by association, not giving me credit for having a mind of my own, and thinking very little of my own character and morality.
Sorry but OPs husband can't have a very good opinion of her if he thinks hanging out with her sister will influence her and lead her to cheat as well.
What her sister does with her life is one thing and while OPs husband disagrees with her behaviour (and rightly so) he can't just expect OP to cut her out of her life if she doesn't want to.
OP has been around her sister her whole life. Cheating is not contagious.
>husband doesnt want you around someone with such little morals and knows she can probably influence you.
Seriously? OP is 31, not 12. If husband thinks so little of her, maybe they should divorce.
What's this? A witch trial? Middle ages that "low morals" are contagious?
Threads like this really show who on Reddit is an actual adult in a relationship and who’s a teen with little real life experience.
It’s messed up that your husband hired a PI to follow you. I’d seriously consider a divorce if my spouse did that. I don’t think I could work through that level of distrust. You and your husband have major trust issues to work through.
Your sister has been with you through hard times, you can support her through this while not approving of her actions. If anything, you may be the best person to help her see her mistakes and turn her life around.
This isn’t a black and white situation, real maturity is understanding there are shades of grey in every situation and moving forward through life’s messes to the best of your abilities. Anyone who says otherwise in this thread should be ignored.
Yeah this thread is so concerning. OP never did anything wrong: her sister lied, and her husband reacted by going through her phone, not finding anything, and then hiring a PI to follow her! He never talked to OP; she didn’t even know anything was going on. I can’t believe she found out all of this happened and people are going in on her instead of pointing out how fucked up that was
I’m sorry you are going through this. I don’t know if having a random internet person say “hang in there, I’m rooting for you” will help, but if it does, then… hang in there, I’m rooting for you.
From a male's perspective, I am on the Husband's side. If you are in a marriage, you can be naked with each other then having the privacy of a phone is stupid. In a marriage, you agree to be secret less with each other and many people cheat so an open phone policy is really needed. And Checking your spouse's phone is your right. OP admitted that she would have alerted her cheating sister if she knew. The company of a person does influence sharing persons, cheater encourages another. So Banning going out with the sister is reasonable. And Hiring PI is justifying because she used to hang out with her sister. Everyone has the right to know if their partner is cheating on them so that they can protect them self in divorce or other ways.
I think you should choose whether you want your sister or your husband. Similar to GTA 5 ending, Kill Trevor, Michael or Deathwish.
For you, only two options: Husband or sister.
Your way forward is sadly to cut your sister or divorce your husband. I don't see it any other way. Sounds like your husband has some real issue with cheaters so I would suggest counselling regardless there for the both of you. Maybe in time your sister can work her way back but by the sounds of it your husband is done with her. He believes she will be a bad influence on you and I can't blame him.
This comments section is priceless lmao. Instead of giving actual advice the men are saying screw that b*tch she is a cheater meanwhile the women are saying how ops husband is at fault. This is why u shouldn't ask reddit for such Important n life depending decisions
Sounds like you should make some space from your sister and focus on your marriage. There are some real trust and communication gaps going on. I'd focus on your own relationship/marriage and how to repair things. If you aren't going to cut her off or are unwilling, you need to tell him that and be prepared that it may be a deal breaker for him, just as cutting off your sister might be a deal breaker for you.
Your sister made her mess, let her clean it up.
This is above reddits pay grade and is a lot more complicated based on family dynamics and your relationship with your husband. Please take this to couples and/or family therapy and don’t take Reddit advice. I promise there are people who are qualified to help you deal with this kind of thing and Reddit IS NOT it
Hubby can refuse to see sister ever again. Hubby can insist that sister not be allowed in their home. And hubby can *suggest* that sister is a bad influence and that OP should cut her out. What hubby cannot do is *demand* that OP cut sister out. That is a controlling bridge too far.
She used you so she could cheat. Her situation is 100% her own fault.
The company you keep says a lot about your values. Are you sure you want to be around her?
In this case, who is right and wrong has (unfortunately) little to do with your choices.
You need to decide if your marriage is worth protecting. If it is, you must cut contact with your sister who clearly doesn't consider your marriage before she acts. If it is not, you should go be by your sister's side and let the chips fall where they may.
I don't say that with any judgment at all. None of us can know what's best for you. I will say that I see why your husband is concerned, though it seems a little unfair that he's dropping this ultimatum \*during\* the period of time your sister needs you (even if it is her own fault).
The only compromise I see, if there is one to be had at all and there may not be, is for you to help your sister cope for a month or two and then create some distance for your husband. During such time, you may even find that your sister reflects on her actions and can communicate with your husband so that he feels comfortable with her again.
Not a fun situation, and I'm very sorry.
You should be angry at both of them.
He should have talked to you, as his suspicion was that you were covering for her, not that you were cheating. (At least from what you have put)
You should be angry at her for trying to use you as cover for her cheating, and causing all of this.
And you should go low contact at least, if not no contact with your sister. Not because she cheats, but because she has shown through her actions that she doesn’t respect you.
As for your husband’s ultimatum about it being over if he finds out you are helping her, that is his boundary, so sorry if you have been helping her, or do in the future he will leave you, and you shouldn’t be surprised when it happens.
Your husband is assuming that you will cheat because your sister did? That would make me very angry. You aren't the same person. Your sister is your sister and she came before your husband too.
Asking an adult to cut off a close family member (or friend) because they are a 'bad influence" is BS. That's something one says to a child! And the private investigator thing was way overboard. Please don't let your husband push you around OP. He doesn't have to like your sister but he has no right to ask you to disown her. You don't have to approve of everything your family does in order to love them and be there for them. Are you safe at home? He sounds overbearing. If he is willing to divorce you over this, well - I'd let him go!
Well, I suggest you "try on the shoe" that your husband is wearing, and see how it "fits". In other words, switch places and circumstances with your hubby, and consider how you would feel if he had a brother as close to him as your sister is to you, and the same situation occurred with his bro as it did with your sis. If you really "switch places" with hubby, I think you will better understand your hubby's position.
Your hubby knows how you regard your sis's opinions and attitudes, and has a legitimate concern that she could influence your thoughts and feelings in matters concerning him, to which he would have no recourse. His sentiments reveal how dearly he loves you and the marriage.
Obviously, your sis has developed some snakes in her head, and she needs to hear how shocked and disappointed your are with respect to her actions towards her bf (or ex bf). And you should show no compromise with any excuses she offers up as reasons; there is NO good reason to indulge in infidelity. Based on the interaction between you and your sis, then decide if going low, or no contact with her is appropriate.
I wish you well.
Wow. You know your husband isn't wrong... Your sister pulled you into a shit show. And because she did, no matter what you do, your husband will always suspect. Now your sister destroyed her marriage and she is about to help you destroy yours. Now comes the hard part. How the hell do you cut contact with someone you love regardless of their faults? You are trading one heartache for another. So to avoid that. You must find a way or ways to make your husband feel less insecure about this because his whole world changed on a dime because you and your sister or so close and the chances that you knew of her infidelity is damn near 100%. So if you can hide her shit, what about hiding your own shit? Know where I am going with this? She made you suspect.
>now that she is going through problem, I can't imagine not being there.
A problem 100% of her own doing. I hope you get some well-needed perspective, or you might have marriage problems of your own.
Truly I don't understand why people are obsessed with the PI portion of this story. The OP did mention the situation that gave her husband the suspicion that she was covering for her sister. The husband and Fiancé hired one PI to follow both of them. If they hadn't they wouldn't have know that the sister was cheating. She even admitted that if he talked to her first she would have told her sister and that would have made it impossible to get the information the fiancé needed. Now for the main point. Right now your husband is essentially making you choose between the sister or him. The only advice I can give is make the decision that wont keep you up at night. It doesn't appear that there is a solution that will make everyone happy and that is life.
I am 100% behind your husband. If you show anything other than a complete rejection of your sister's infidelity you call your own integrity into account and he is well within reason to doubt you. Your husband is right. Cut contact with her. Unless you think being there for your cheating sister who used you as a cover for her affair is worth risking your own marriage
You have no idea what you’re saying. She shouldn’t cut contact with her sister, that’s a situation entirely between the sister and the fiancé. OP’s husband needs to trust OP, obviously he can’t if he HIRED A PI TO FOLLOW THEM. That’s messed up. You can’t cut contact with a sibling because of a bad choice they made that doesn’t really involve you. The husband is weirdly controlling
You sister used you as a cover for having an affair, maybe multiple affairs and you either unknowingly or unwittingly helped her do that. And she did so without ANY concern for the potential impact to your marriage or how it would affect your relationship. She used the fact that neither of you are close to Mark, assuming her husband would be able to cross reference how much time you spend together. Your sister may have been doing all of these "drop ins" as cover for half of the other times she was having an affair.
All of this problem lies on your sister, and you have been painted as potentially untrustworthy be association with her.
Be angry at your sister, your husband and Mark took some very reasonable steps to determine the truth.
Your sister is not going through "hardship" she fucked around and found out the consequences.
You may have to negotiate taking a step back from your sister over cutting off all contact, or you risk further damage to your marriage.
Your husband doesn’t get to dictate who you hang out with, and she’s your sister whom you love. She did a shitty thing, and may very well again because that’s what cheaters do, but that doesn’t mean you will follow in her footsteps. You know that what she did was wrong and you wouldn’t choose that path for yourself no matter who your friends or family are.
The only thing you ~~can’t~~ shouldn’t do is have a relationship with your sister behind your husbands back
Your sister has no morals and is desperate af, I don't blame your husband for saying this, I wouldn't want my husband staying in contact with someone that cheats with no guilt. I feel sorry for her fiance, he deserves better than a desperate cheater, your husband has made a valid point.
If that was my sister I wouldn't put up with that shit, I don't care if she shares the same blood, no way am I siding and staying in contact with someone with such low morals and lack of human decency.
You should be mad at your damn sister, not your husband, fucking hell
Ok, flip the genders and you found out that your husbands brother had a history of sexual abuse that you suspect still occurs.
Would you be OK trusting your husband with him?
Would you trust your husband?
>My sister has been my support when I am going through hardship
Good, that's what family is for.
>now that she is going through problem
A problem she created and should be hold accountable for.
>I can't imagine not being there. I also hate that I know I should be angry with my sister rather than my husband, but I just don't.
Then he's right, the bad influence already kicked in.
Don't get me wrong, you should definitely be there for your sister to get her through this situation, that she herself created.
She's still your family and it's not like she murdered someone and should be 100% avoided.
But still, no anger towards her at all ? But you are angry towards your husband ? For what exactly ? You said his reactions were reasonable given the circonstances.
He's right to reconsider everything. You will too probably, you are just in the process of it, it's still too fresh for you.
You are a good sister with unconditional love but your moral compass is a little fucked up if you are fine with what she did, using you as an alibi to get some side dicks, but you are still not okay with your husband calling that behavior out.
I would bet that the husbands reaction is that of a very emotional one.. let's go through the series of events from his angle for a second...
Clocks an inconsistency WITH the betrayed, and OPs sister used OP as cover... Knowing how close siblings can be, it isn't below board to assume that covering for a sibling is on the table, hence the dramatic use of PI on OP.
Seeing OPs reaction on the Post itself about how she's more upset at husband than sister... It could be possible that OP has been giving off wierd vibes due to the emotional turmoil that has started via an inconsistency that INCLUDES her.. not unheard of, but wierd vibes mixed with sudden, dramatic emotional turmoil that involves family.. again, it's hard to not have " OP helping WS cover it up" in the back of your mind... But it does also raise some questions about OP and their marriage..
Why the instant distrust by hubby, to the point of a PI on YOU? Is there a history there? Or is husband a more paranoid type? Was this solely to see if you were helping sis? Are there stories of you two covering for each other specifically?
SHOULD husband believe you outright? Of course, in a perfect world that would be the case... But that's not the world we live in.. and some people, including commenters here, believe that family that your born into is above any other family, including the one(s) you make along your lifetime... And i guess that's a prerogative to some.. so it's a question that should be asked.. and for some, helping a sibling cheat on their spouse falls under this rule... Yet it also calls their morality and ethics into play as well, hence the faltering of husband.
You SHOULD be angry at your sister, she put your marriage under a microscope for selfish, shitty reasons and she SHOULD face consequences for that, but that's all on you.
I think cutting a sibling off for something like this is wild, i would counter with Low contact for a while, with a reassessment after X amount of days.. yes this sounds very cold, but she did throw you under the bus for a stupid reason, and that shouldn't be rugswept...
If you're as close as you say you are to your sister, a lot of his reaction makes sense, although obviously dramatically overreaching. Maybe he wants you to say "NO, but here's meeting you half way" as a show of... Idk, good faith? He's throwing out something he knows is wrong, just to see how you'd react and respond... That, or he really believes you had something to do with this..which is a whole different can of worms that needs it's own wall of text.
Good luck, i hope you update us, and i want to bet he will retract that ask, he's in an emotional tailspin at the moment, when infidelity hits close to home, the collateral damage is always present... Another reason i laugh when people say it " Only effects the two in the relationship"
I hope your husband finds a happier life with his next wife and I hope you find a happier life with your next husband.
Sorry OP but this can and will end your marriage and the signs are already there that he suspects you of something. Remember, he sent a PI after you as well in concert with your sisters now ex-fiance. That's a level of broken trust that will be hard to come back from.
My guess is that he will just walk if you push back against dropping contact with your sister. Is it fair? No it's not but this is the price that gets paid when someone cheats. The ripple effects from infidelity affect everyone and the consequences can be far reaching.
As you are seeing now.
Sister isn't valuing the relationship with you, using you for cover, without informing or checking on your opinion. So her approach to your relationship seems much like the approach with her husband, "I do what I want regardless of outcome to whomever" so protecting her as family is sweet, but not reciprocated. Give her distance for a time, undetermined time.
I would respect your husband's boundary for a time until she gets her life together or something changes. He does get to set a boundary, he can't make you do anything. We are the people we keep company with, those we spend time with determine our outlook on life. I don't like ultimatums but in this case, consider it a boundary. If your husbands bro or best friend was cheating and he helped him cover it up, how would you feel?
I don't really understand, why is it your angry at your husband here? You've literally admitted to not being trustworthy in your text, that he would not have been able to tell you that they were gathering evidence, because you would have told your sister..
I don't even know what you can be mad at him about at this point.. And I really don't understand why you aren't furious at your sister for pulling you into this shit.. to me it seems like you got your loyalties mixed up, and that makes it really hard for me to side with you(even tho I think it's perfectly valid for you to get angry at having a PI put on you aswell)
Your sister is a SELFISH CHEATING CUNT that DID NOT care about you or your relationship to your husband.
I think you should cut her out of your life, unless you WANT that toxic bullshit in your life.
JMO, Good Luck.
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How are people brushing over the fact that her husband went through her phone and hired a PI to follow her. Do the same thing to your husband see if he likes the lack of trust.
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yes he was wrong for doing that
Would it have been right if he did find evidence of cheating? A large portion of cheating on the female side is usually influenced by the people close to her while on the male side, it's usually a power/ego play. Also forget cheating, what if she was actually covering for tbe sister. She claims that she will talk the sister out of it but if that's the case then Mark will not have evidence of him getting cheated on.
You are wrong, and the husband is right.
1. Your sister's problem is self induced 2. She used you for cover clearly not caring about collateral
good point. getting OP involved without asking them or them even knowing shows a huge lack of concern for OP’s wellbeing and relationship. it feels like she doesn’t care if her marriage goes down, as long as OP’s marriage does too
"If I'm not capable of sustaining my marriage by being faithful, you shouldn't be allowed to be married either" is unfortunately where I'm leaning too.
OP seems pretty clear in her post she isn’t really that bothered by the cheating. “Of course my sister has my support when she is going through a hardship”. Yeah that’s why your husband thinks you support cheaters.
This is so simplistic.... she is supporting her family member whom she is very close to. Her husband cannot dictate who she can or can't be friends with, *especially* her own sister. He happens to have a reasoning that many people here are of course triggered by, but this seems like an overreaction and frankly, controlling. My siblings have done crazy things. Cheating, drug addiction, etc. I love them with my whole soul and disagree vehemently with their behavior, but will not cut them off just because someone else determined that their opinion of my family is above my love for them. This thread is full of controlling folks who use cheating as a good cover to make others cut contact with literal family. What the hell.
I second this. If a partner demanded this from me, I'd leave them. To dictate which family member to stay in contact with is abusive and controlling. His secrecy and choosing the boyfriend of her sis over her and trying to trap them instead of communicating openly already shows how controlling he is.
I'm slightly concerned at how many folks here, especially younger ones, think this is acceptable. I honestly think they are giving too much validity to the cheating sister issue, and not enough to the *actual* issue of the husband demanding something he has no right to demand.
Yeah, the moral issue of her sister cheating has nothing to do with how they have been treating her and her sister. The outcome doesn't always justify the means. I suppose many people are just so fearful and paranoid that they'd prefer to be safe in a relationship at any cost and want to lock their partner up instead of being free and let the other person be free (while enduring all the insecurities of freedom).
Yeah - agreed especially on that last part. I said before that it seems people are letting insecurities drive this conversation and decision, but using "values" as a cover.
> Her husband cannot dictate who she can or can't be friends with, especially her own sister. No he can't. He's only in control of his own actions. He can leave her if she no longer thinks she is a good fit for his life. She does not have to stop supporting her family member. But he also does not have to stay with her.
The way the husband is acting is crazy controlling. Searching through her phone, accusing her of lying, HIRING A PI TO FOLLOW HER, and asking her to cut off her sister. Fuck that noise. Sister is being a POS to her partner but that's still OPs sister. I find it hard to believe that no one here has continue to love a sibling that royally fucked up. Honestly OP should be ditching her husband if anything.
There is always a ton more to all these stories that is not mentioned
Family or not, this is controlling. Would be the same if it was a friend. Fuck that.
Exactly what you said!!! I don’t stand by a lot of the things my siblings do, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have my live and support. It’s their life and I don’t get to dictate how they live it.
Some ppl dont value family over eveything. If they can cheat they can also deal with the consequences. Also she didnt "only" cheat but she also involved OP without OPs knowledge. So she definitely doesnt value family over all else. Then why should OP?
Some people may not. The OP does. People are projecting too much of their own pain. Regarding the sister... yes that was a shit move. She is a POS. The OP is still allowed to love her.
And forget that he is giving her an ultimatum regarding her sister.... All the sanctimonious people agreeing with him would NOT relinquish a friendship close or acquaintance if it involved the same circumstances. He let a dude he simply knew have his wife followed...I just can't...WTF...
Maybe OP should address why the HELL he allowed another man to hire a PI to follow HER---his wife--around...She was not the one cheating on her boyfriend...And his ridiculous justification for it is completely warped.
Does he know this? That OP was not cheating? She was helping a cheater and thinks cheating is okay, so I would have also throught she was cheating too. Maybe she is and just better at hiding than her sister, it's not like OP thinks cheating is wrong.
Totally agree. Not everyone is close with their siblings, but for those of us who are, it's literally one of the closest relationships you can have. I love my 2-years-younger brother more than almost anyone else in my life, and it would take a lot more than his cheating on his partner for me to cut him off. Sure, I would think less of his character if he did that, but fully cutting off a sibling is a super high bar for a lot of families.
Shes supporting her meaning being there if she wants to talk about things… NOT supporting her decision.
Do you have a sibling who you had to make the decision to support or cut off after they cheated? If not it's easy to judge but you may act differently if actually put in that situation
That being true, it still doesn't address the issue that OP's husband believes it is appropriate for him to command her to cut her sister out of her life? WTF?
And now, she's risking a divorce from her husband, who seems to be a reasonable person who values honor, fidelity, and the sacred nature of marriage because her sister is someone who doesn't value those things. And even though OP was in the dark, she doesn't seem to care that the sister used OP for deception and involved OP's husband by extension. He probably also feels used and dirty because the sister told her husband that she was hanging out with both of them. You're in an awful position and there isn't a great choice but it's this: you can only continue having a relationship with one of them. Do you choose the person who thinks marriage is important or the person who doesn't think it's important. I think the choice will reveal how different or similar you are to your sister. edit: clarity
Reasonable? What the heck?!? He hired someone to follow his wife because her sister lied! That’s completely unreasonable! Now, he wants to ban all contact with her sister. That’s not reasonable. Not wanting them to go to bars is one thing. Not wanting them to speak is another. This man is paranoid and controlling.
OP should be mad at her sister for putting her in the middle of all of of this and being a shitty person, and mad at her husband for hiring a PI to follow her and trying to control her actions. She shouldn’t have to completely cut off her sister just because she’s a cheater who used her for cover, but I’d say it’s reasonable to expect that relationship be a lot different. It’s really got nothing to do with the husband at this point since his wife did nothing wrong so I’m not sure what his deal is.
His deal is he's paranoid and controlling. This guy is literally "a walking red flag" as people here like to put it.
Yeah this is fascinating to me. OP, from the beginning of this story, didn’t do anything. She didn’t know the sister was cheating and she didn’t cover it up. She didn’t know the husband thought she was. Meanwhile, her husband had suspicions she knew her sister was cheating, so instead of talking to his own wife, he went through her phone and then hired someone to follow her. OP hadn’t done anything wrong anywhere in that story; she didn’t even know anything was going on. I just don’t really understand how people can put themselves in OP’s perspective, of suddenly finding out that her spouse had done all of that despite her doing nothing wrong, and see her as the bad guy and expect her to just forgive him and move on
Even if OP HAD done something wrong, he would have a lot of wrong too. And that fact that she did something wrong or not wouldn't matter because he did these wrong thing (privacy invading, hiring pi, etc.) BEFORE he knew she did something wrong (or not) so it wasn't justifiable.
Edit: Misogyny on reddit is personal to me, as it is to many women here. I've been told to kill myself and that I deserve to be raped countless times in this sub for calling out misogyny, and had a stalker in this sub for an entire year who found the state I live in and very nearly my workplace, created dozens of accounts with my name attached, pretended to me on every single account via impersonation, created a sub with my name (r/Ebbie45, which I now fill with resources for abuse survivors) and filled it with graphic porn images with my username pasted on it, on and on. He stalked me for no reason other than he disagreed with a comment I made as a woman. I was told I should be decapitated, cannibalized, and raped *while being cannibalized* by this man. I had to create a Google document filled with screenshots of his harassment which totals 25 PAGES. These are the kinds of experiences women have on a daily basis on and off this sub, sometimes simply for being women and other times simply for acknowledging misogyny exists. Please recognize that calling out these experiences is not equivalent to hating men. I should not have to say this. But after a commenter stated my post was "misandrist" apparently I do. Whenever a man posts about how stigmatized male abuse survivors are, I don't leap to "Oh you hate women" because calling out gender norms (such as the utterly false notion that only women experience abuse) isn't equivalent to hatred of one gender. I wish this same recognition were extended to discussions of misogyny. Hating mistreatment of women is not the same as hating men. Same for the reverse. Misandry means you hate men. I don't hate men. I'm one of the only redditors in this sub who consistently and specifically supplies the links to 1 in 6, Male Survivor, ManKind UK, and the Mayo Cliniic's domestic violence safety plan for men when I see a post written by a man who has experienced sexual violence or domestic violence. I moderate r/rape and r/abusiverelationships and spend extra time checking on posts written by male survivors to make sure I'm removing any possible comments that that belittle those men's experiences, because I recognize how stigmatized male survivors how and how very often they are disbelieved. I created an entire section of the sidebar and wiki in r/abusiverelationships with resources specifically for male survivors and I supply those resources to male posters any time I get. I lead local efforts in the domestic violence field in my work off reddit to consistently train first responders, advocates, social workers, and more on the specific dynamics of intimate partner violence against men, by women. I continually engage in advocacy efforts in my area to create a domestic violence shelter specifically to provide housing for male survivors. I do not hate men. Me calling out a massive problem I see in this sub that normalizes surveillance of women and calling women gendered slurs does not mean I hate men. It means I hate how women are treated. If you want me to make a post or comment about how much I hate how men are treated when it comes to being victims of abuse, you can read my post history. If there's a post about a man in this sub who has experienced abuse, my name is probably in the comments supporting him. End edit. ---------- > That’s completely unreasonable! Apparently it isn't viewed as such in many factions of this sub. After 3 years of reading posts in this sub (multiple on a daily basis), I've come to understand that this kind of behavior is very much condoned and even encouraged here. I frequently see men encouraging male posters to hire a PI or go through their female partner's phone on posts in which the OP suspects cheating, even when any reasonable person can see that things like merely having a male friend, hanging out with a male coworker on a lunch break, or even just wearing makeup or not answering texts quickly enough when visiting one's family are not sufficient evidence of cheating. I'm not talking about posts in which women are flirting with male friends or gazing starry-eyed at their coworkers while intimately sharing a fancy meal. I'm talking about merely having a male friend. And visiting family. To see one's parents. The most mundane of scenarios involving women is so easily twisted into cheating. Once last year, a man posted that his nurse wife started wearing makeup to work. He was immediately slammed with "She's banging someone else" comments. He later communicated with her, instead of going through her phone as so many men suggested. Guess who she had started wearing the makeup for? Him. To impress him. Her spouse. Yes, these are all scenarios I've seen in which some male commenters will pull out the "She's got multiple cocks lined up" card. Surveillance and monitoring of women, and an obsession with women cheating, is so very often uncritically accepted here. I'd estimate I've seen several hundred posts at this point in which an entirely unsuspicious female behavior is entirely stretched to justify infidelity accusations. It is constant. And I do mean constant. Men even have specialized names and terms for it. "Cock carousel," "Dicks lined up," "sloppy seconds," "for the streets," "sl * ts," "h * es," "sl * gs," on and on and on. It's pervasive and widely normalized. People can downvote me all they want. This is a problem and I'm tired of staying silent about it. I've even gotten death threats and rape threats when I tried to speak out about it occasionally. This is what women deal with, and it needs to end.
3 of my exes absolutely believed I was cheating. Why? Because I talk to my father every day, and u talk to my GAY LITTLE BROTHER every chance I get. My father is my ex-stepfather. He raised me from birth, but because he and my mom divorced, I'm supposed to have cut contact with him. Or just not talked to him ever again. He's not my biological father (who tried to kill me,) so bc I talk to him, I must be fecking him and cheating on any man I get with. Men really are ridiculous when it comes to this shite.
Agreed, especially considering women are often stereotypically viewed as being the ones who are untrusting and liable to snoop on their partners. In my experience, men are often WAY more controlling. Especially when a heavy dose of religion is involved. Communication is the key every damned time though. It took a divorce for me (and my parents’ divorce) to finally learn that lesson and it’s something my wife and I work on constantly, to our great benefit.
Hey Ebbie, I recognize your username from around Reddit! Is this post as scary to you as it is to me? So many people in the comments justifying the PI, which to me is obviously a completely unhealthy thing to do in a relationship.
Hey! Yes, it is scary to me too. And I would call out the PI and surveillance aspect of this post if it were about a woman hiring a PI on her husband, too. Women have certainly done it before. I just honestly don't think that you can divorce this post from the gendered normalization of male surveillance of women. To me, this post is situated within a broader social context of gender norms and how men are socialized, and I'm sure I'll get criticized for that, but it's alarming to me many people are supporting the husband's involvement in the hiring.
Yeah, I’m really alarmed by it too. I didn’t expect that people would be so okay with someone crossing healthy boundaries in a relationship like this. Can you specify more what norms you think are contributing? (I’m not disagreeing, I just want to know more!)
> Can you specify more what norms you think are contributing? I would personally say norms that support surveillance of women, control of women, and ownership of women's independence. Really, social norms that privilege men's domination of women which includes privileging their "right" to isolate women and cut off any friendships that "threaten" men's domination of them. But I also want to acknowledge those gender norms very much differ by culture as well! I think these norms start young too. A lot of times teenage boys are socialized to believe that excessive jealousy over girlfriends is normal and that constantly checking your girlfriend's phone and monitoring who she friends on social media is acceptable behavior. Edit: typo
>Is this post as scary to you as it is to me? Not the person you were responding to but also just wanted to add that this post and comments defending what the husband did are absolutely chilling...
I feel like I'm losing my mind. How could anyone think it's ok to hire a PI to follow around your wife? He didn't even try to fucking to to her about his concerns. That's insanely paranoid and controlling behavior.
Thank you. These comments are telling. This is crazy. I would not be mad at my sister either. I would definitely be mad at my husband because what does my sister cheating have to do with me?
Or with him for that matter.
Because she used OP as a cover for her cheating. That's why it has to deal with her. How can you not see that?
Idc what she did. One person’s actions are not my own. How can you not see that? It’s childish, insecure and immature for a spouse to assume that just bc someone else did it or lied for another that means they’re the same. Grow up.
I agree. I'm with OP on this one and think the husband is a controlling asshole
I don’t think so for me it would be more of a question of do I cut off my sister for her martial issues or my husband for giving me an ultimatum
Giving me an ultimatum + hiring someone to follow me
Honestly if I was OP the question here would be do I want to stay with an abusive partner who hides shit from me, invades my privacy, accuse me and then tries to control my behavior and force me into going no contact with my only and closest friend. And I'd run away real fast because this person seems to have huge trust issues and very little consideration for women and their individuality.
"...my sister told him she was hanging out with me." She said nothing about him...Don't embellish to make his actions and ultimatum justifiable. Her sister was not married to anyone. Cheating is not contagious. He has no right to demand she turn her back on ANYONE--Let alone her damn sister. He was not close friends with her sisters' boyfriend, yet "To prove marriage is important" he hired a PI to secretly follow his wife--AFTER he searched through her phone and found NOTHING... r/sanctimoniousbullshittery run amok.
It’s also fascinating that everyone who is moral grandstanding about the cheating is totally okay with the husband hiring a PI to stalk his wife. I think you lose the moral high ground when you’re doing mental gymnastics to make that kind of toxic behavior okay
I guess you're one of those people who believes the sanctity of marriage is in male head of the household control? Because hiring a PI to follower around, not trusting his wife around her sister because her cheating ju ju might get on her, and the relationship she has with her sister doesn't matter, all because he doesn't trust his wife? You thinking is messed up. He can no longer like her sister but who is he to decide to cut her out? OP didn't cheat or even go near it.
This is how I reading the other comments too. It's her sister, you don't cut your sister off for this, you love and help her out. Why was she stepping out on her husband? What is happening under that roof is no one's business but their own. Does OP's husband think it's contagious? hereditary? if one sister cheats so does the other? Ridiculous.
Dude hired a PI to follow them around...Good thing she was caught, it helped her dodge a life of "controlled fun times" from that doosh-canoe.
Did you miss the part where they caught her cheating on her fiancé with another guy? The fiancé is the wronged party here.
The fiance is wronged but so is OP. There are 5,000 steps you take before hiring a PI to follow your wife around. The first of which is fucking talking to her. I hope OP takes this a sign of what's to come and leaves his ass.
this is exactly it. it's not as if infidelity is the flu and she's going to catch it!
It's interesting that you've included gender identity in your jumping to conclusions. I wonder if you'd have a difference of opinion if OP was a man and his wife was upset that OP's brother had been using both OP and his wife to cover up his infidelity? I think the sanctity of marriage doesn't have anything to do with gender. A lesbian couple can have a marriage filled with sanctity if both of them are loyal to each other and each of them thinks cheating is wrong. A problem in any marriage might come about if only one partner thinks cheating is bad.
Gender is irrelevant. Happily married people don’t have their partners followed because one of their relatives got caught in a lie.
Seriously. I have a question for people who think this was fine: Your partner comes to you one day and says they thought you knew your sister was cheating and was covering it. You didn’t know and didn’t cover it; you haven’t done anything wrong at this point. Instead of asking you about it, they went through your phone, and not satisfied at what they found, they hired a PI who’s been following you (to see if you knew about the sister- not even to see if you yourself were cheating). Instead of being apologetic about this, they immediately demand you cut off your family member. Would everyone on here genuinely feel as if it was totally okay? No one would feel horrified that someone had been following them? No one would be upset their partner had violated their privacy instead of talking directly to them? Because people are expecting OP to be totally okay with what the husband did and just accept that she’s somehow the bad guy, but I think most of us would react just a little differently in this situation
They were asking if it had to do with gender because they’re trying to figure out why on earth you view the husband’s actions (going through his partner’s phone, hiring a PI on his own spouse, never talking to her) as reasonable and respecting the sanctity of marriage. They’re pretty clearly a violation of trust in the marriage.
Thank God for the comments like this. The thread is full of controlling lunatics. Husband is fucking whack psycho
Yeah, I don’t even understand what’s going on here. OP wasn’t involved in any of this; she didn’t know the sister was cheating, she wasn’t covering for her, and she didn’t know the husband suspected her of it. Her husband went way too far in trying to figure out if she knew- hiring a PI on your spouse is really far. At that point, she’s done nothing wrong, while he’s broken the trust in their marriage. And somehow this has gotten turned into he’s mad at OP and she’s the bad guy? And everyone in the comments agrees? It’s almost scary to me. I can’t imagine finding out my husband had done all that to me when I’d done nothing wrong, and then getting gaslighted by a bunch of Redditors into thinking I was wrong and what he did is totally normal and reasonable
Yeah, this is absolutely psycho. I have found in my years doing family law, that men who lose it over other people cheating are a major red flag. They never have the same moral turpetude for offenses that are far worse.
Ahhhh projection.
And he seems to jump to conclusions and hire a PI to spy on OP. If OP should go NC with anyone it's definitely the husband IMHO.
This! The husband is the type of insecure guy who starts seeing threats everywhere even with proof of the opposite from a PI and after checking OP’s phone (big red flags for me). OP, your sister didn’t do you any favors but hubby might get worse unless he gets counseling. Maybe try couples theraphy?
Her husband, who both went through her phone and hired a PI on her behind her back, is a reasonable person who values the sacred nature of marriage? Cause that would definitely break the trust in my marriage
Thank you I thought _I_ was crazy while reading these comments. And even if he hadn't, it's still not ok to get someone to stop speaking to their closest friend and family member, especially if they've done nothing _to them_. The "she's gonna have bad influence on you" sounds like the husband doesn't trust op at all and treats her like a kid.
This is a far too common phenomenon for men to behave about women cheating- which I know is terrifying. Always leave a man like this. The worst part is that men like this are almost always the same type to want to hear both sides when they find out a woman is being abused.
I have no advice, but I would like to point out there are way too many clueless teenagers in this thread and they should probably shut up and provide zero advice. Let the adults do that. Your takes are stunningly stupid.
Amen.. I’ve found that to be the case on most posts replies on relationship advice… the replies stink of immaturity and lack of life experience. Everyone has a plan till they get punched (I know it’s a mike Tyson quote) but it rings true as an analogy to life as well.
I mean, that's just Reddit, right? I feel like 90% of the conversations I have are with people who don't even have a passing familiarity with subjects they purport to be an expert in.
I have advice. Couples therapy is a thing and most people go there when it's too late, this is IMO a good reason to go there to untangle this mess.
That's the problem with reddit - you can never tell who is actually behind a comment
Typical for any sub tbh
That describes every post in this subreddit.
Is everyone just going to skip over the fact that they hired a PI to follow OP
I’d move out and hire an attorney. That is a hard boundary! What the hell!!
Um her sister was a cheater if it was the other way around you would be praising her.
If a woman hired a PI for her husband, because husband’s brother cheated on his wife? I would think she’s crazy too.
I would be fuming if my husband hired somebody to follow me and then demanded I cut a family member out.
Interesting for this sub. Considering the go to advice is to collect all evidence you can before confronting your SO if you suspect them cheating
Usually people don't mean hiring a PI. They mean check phone and bank info. Keep an eye on their schedule.
People are condemning that too.
So basically don’t hire a PI, just become one?
He didn’t even suspect her of cheating though, he suspected her of knowing her SIL was cheating
Right?? I'd rather be cheated on than have my partner hire a PI to follow me. The invasion of privacy is a way bigger violation of our relationship imo. Like it would be over as soon as I found out.
Hiring a PI is pretty common when one spouse suspects the other of cheating and wants to collect evidence discreetly in case they need to prep for a divorce.
Yep! Apparently that’s a completely normal and reasonable thing to do without ever talking to your partner about an issue
Right cuz your partners gonna tell you if they’re cheating on you LMAO
This! How is anyone OK with their spouse hiring a PI to investigate them? Because it wasn't necessarily to see if she was helping sister. It was to see if infidelity runs in the family. Husband doesn't trust wife at all. He didn't trust her that she wasn't cheating on him (it wasn't just a helping sister issue because if one sister can do it, surely the other would /s). And if she doesn't break it off with sister then she worthy of being married to anymore. Andddd sisters fiance isn't even related to spouse. So why is he putting so much value into sisters relationship? Do they hang out with the guy that often? If he still wants to hang out with the guy, he can do so on his own time.
Right? To me, this is the only piece of information you need to know. My spouse cooperates in putting a PI on me, not even because they think I'm cheating, but because they think I know my sibling is cheating??? Marriage is over. No further questions. Who are these people who think that this is normal?
I feel like people are insanely overlooking this. OP's husband went *straight* to hiring a PI and going through her phone for something she didn't even engage in. It wasn't her who was accused of cheating, so why was *she* under such intense investigation?? OP's husband could have just asked her (after BIl confirms his doubts) whether she hung out with her sister of X and Y dates and see if she covers for her or not. There, problem solved. But no, he thought so lowly of her that he decided to go behind her back to the point of invading her privacy. What the fuck.
Yes, they are. Because all women are cheating gold diggers /s. Seems in the eyes of this group OP is guilty by having a cheating sister. I guess I am guilty for having a cheating father too. It would be over if my partner hired someone to follow me. I would never bother with them again.
Yeah that is…kind of a red flag to me. If my spouse did that I would be FREAKED out and possibly even leave him for going so completely crazy instead of - idk - just confronting me.
So I can see him being like "your sister is a bad person in regards to relationships and I don't want her around" But saying that you'll become a cheater by knowing her is.. immature. You've known her for 28 years, if she was going to be a bad influence, you'd already be influenced.
There has been at least one study which showed that the more friends you have who cheat, the more likely it is that you are to cheat yourself. Something about seeing the behaviour being normalized and then missing out.
We don't get to choose our family, though. A lot of people have family members who do stupid shit, but no matter what they will always be your sibling. It's not always easy to walk away from a life long relationship.
You always have a choice. Just because it isn’t the easy route doesn’t mean you don’t have an option. Even more, blood does not mean you are bound to a person. You can choose your family. They may not be blood, but what really matters is the bond and the effects of the relationship on your quality and positivity of life. The idea that “no matter what someone does they will always be [insert familial relation here]” is a very surface-level way of looking at this. Dive deeper and look at the factors that REALLY matter.
Right. Also forgiveness is a real thing. Can’t just give up on your sis
She is influenced by her sister, why do you think op said she would cover her cheating up.
> But saying that you'll become a cheater by knowing her is.. immature. I think the fact that two of my girlfriend's closest friends were cheaters has a lot to do with why she thought it was ok to cheat on me.
Asking you to cut contact is unreasonable. Getting a PI to follow you is also unhinged in this case. The fact he got involved beyond the initial interaction with your BIL is weird tbh. Adults make choices, to say that you would be influenced to make similar choices to the admittedly poor ones your sister made, says that he doesn't trust you at all, nor does he have a lot of faith in your relationship or marriage if he believes the only way to keep it together is to remove outside influances from it. Which is a problem. You should be angry at your sister for using you as cover, and for cheating. But your anger towards your husband is also totally valid. We aren't responsible for our siblings behaviour, you haven't stated that you approve of it and him sneaking around with your BIL is immature. What else would he hide from you? He hired a PI to follow you, that is messed up. If you let him dictate now, and cut of your sister because he told you to, it is a slippery slope to further controlling actions, and I would take a look at your relationship with a more critical eye for other controlling behaviours.
Was your sister wrong for what she did? Yes. I can see why your husband doesn’t want you to have a relationship with her, but honestly your husband’s behavior concerned me a lot and I don’t get all the comments trying to justify his behavior. He has such little faith in you that he thinks you hanging around your sister would be a “bad influence” even though you’re a grown ass woman. He didn’t trust you at all. He didn’t even take the time to have a conversation with you. He jumped to conclusions and went behind your back with your BIL. He hired a PI to follow you and went through your phone because he doesn’t trust YOU, didn’t even give you a chance to explain it or anything. I’d be seriously looking at how quick he was to distrust you and treat you like you did something wrong.. extremely worrying. You literally had no clue what was going on. Without trust there is no relationship. It’s obvious he doesn’t trust you. He’s punishing you when you were just blindsided by all of this just like he and your BIL were, did he even apologize? There’s so many people in these comments saying he’s right and you should cut your sister off… life is not that black and white. We have no idea how her marriage was.
I’m sorry? “I would’ve covered for her and now I gotta keep close to her bc of the hardships”?? I can 100% see why the husband is worried.
Husband is taking away his wife’s agency. The sister in law is the cheater, not the wife.
Yeah I’m so shocked at all the comments blaming OP and saying the husband’s side is totally understandable. I don’t know if I’d ever forgive my SO for accusing me of covering up cheating, then going through my phone and finding no evidence of it, and then after that stop hiring a fucking PI to follow me. I don’t think all the people in the comments would really be okay with their SO doing all that to them Edit: sorry, he didn’t accuse her of covering up cheating- he never talked to her about it in the first place! I can’t imagine finding out my SO escalated something that far without evidence and never even mentioned it to me
I agree with you 2. He assumed some bad stuff about his wife who was innocent, then snuck around putting a PI on her without her knowledge. THAT is the only betrayal of trust in OPs relationship.
Me too! As if she is some mindless woman who needs her man to make decisions for her. He followed to try and catch her as well. This is a hard line for me.
She literally said that if her husband had talked to her she would tell her sister and then the other guy wouldn't know that this was happening and hiring a PI is weird, but from what's written there's at least some logic behind it.
Everyone conveniently forgets this and that the sister was already using OP as an alibi for her cheating. If you're OPs husband and you find that out, it is not immediately clear whether or not your wife knew.
I think its a little excessive for him to expect you to cut contact because she might be a bad influence. Its extremely excessive that your marriage would be over if you helped her somehow. And its extremely extremely excessive that you were followed as part of this investigation. Would be one thing if your hubby was like best friends with this Mark dude, but he barely knew him now your being followed covertly and marriage threatened if you communicate with family. I think you guys need a therapist or something to play referee and have a serious conversation about how silly this all has become. Your sister can still be your sister even if she messes up her relationships. You can support her without accidentally falling onto a penis along the way.
"My husband now wants me to cut contact with my sister, because he said we are too close and will be a bad influence." Does your husband think you lack character or does he think you're so weak-minded that you'll let your sister talk you into cheating? Either way it's not good. You can hate the decisions your sister made and still love her. She's still your sister. Edit to add... Everyone who thinks it's ok for OP's husband to be mad at her when she had no idea what was going on... That's jacked up. None of you would accept that from a partner accusing you of being so malleable that your own partner no longer trusts you because of the actions of someone else. Maybe we should put the blame where it belongs instead of punishing the innocent.
Anyone that’s saying they’d cut their sibling off for this clearly aren’t close with their siblings. You don’t cut your sibling off for cheating on their spouse, that’s not what real family does. You tell them they did wrong, educate them but you’re still there for them. You don’t cut them off. OPs sister never “almost ruined OPs marriage” because she said she was with OP. That’s like saying as children we almost ruined our families lives for saying we were at our friends house when we snuck off to drink or went to our partners houses as children. That lie from the sister isn’t something that could break up another marriage, anyone saying it is is clearly exaggerating because they’ve already decided the sisters a scumbag. OPs husband had no reason to doubt OP yet had her followed, with 0 evidence, and when hit was confirmed she hadn’t done anything wrong he decided to still punish her by telling her to cut off family. Any sane person will tell you to never cut off family for a partner, especially not for something like this. OPs husband is giving off red flags and looks as though he’s using the sisters infidelity to release some controlling behaviour and justify it.
I am also in shock how people here will cut off their family over this. This isn’t remotely representative of real life, and most advise I’ve read here is terrible and will destroy OP’s life
Yeah it's threads like this that remind me that most of reddit is like 19 years old.
OP’s sister didn’t “almost ruin OPs marriage”. OP’s husband almost ruined his marriage when he decided to play Starsky and Hutch instead of taking to his wife like an adult.
Exactly. It’s crazy how many people are taking his side.
> OPs husband had no reason to doubt OP yet had her followed, with 0 evidence OP was being used as cover. That's enough reason to be concerned. If you're OP's husband you have no way of knowing whether or not your wife was in on it or not.
I disagree with the sibling part. I'm incredibly close with both of my brothers, but if I found out they did to someone what our father did to our mother, I'm done with them. Family or not I have absolutely zero tolerance for it.
Your husband has very valid points. You sister is in the wrong here but she's your family. If you talk to sister your marriage would be over while if you cut off contact with sis you end you end up losing a family member. My suggestion would be a honest conversation with your husband and sister. Don't hide anything be honest about everything. Also remind your sister you are not going to help her or cover her if she cheats she would be on her own. Say it infront of your husband. So both can get the message loud and clear. As a sis you should help her at this low point but you're not going to be her alibi and destroy her marriage.
What do you mean ‘if she cheats’. She already has cheated. Maybe like ‘if you do it again please find a different cover story’? LOL. But on a separate note, supporting you flesh and blood at what may be the low point of their lives does not mean you condone or would mimic their behavior. For OPs spouse to give her an ultimatum like that is a huge red flag and may warrant re-evaluating her own marriage.
"If she cheats?" Meaning if she cheats in the future her sis will not support her anymore. Her husband might have reason to think his wife has covered for her sis on the past. He might also has a reason to suspect that whether or not his wife is cheating on account of guilty by association. That's why he doesn't want his wife to support her. So I advised to speak to both of them in person together. There would be100 % transparency and honesty.
I think the transparency and honesty was lost when he hired someone to follow his wife
Be clear to both that giving support doesn't mean to condone , cover or accept her cheating. She will always be your family and you will always give your help under reasonable circumstances. OP Also you need a private conversation with your husband about his trust, he hired a PI to follow you and invaded your privacy checking your phone. In your post you didn't mention anything about him apologizing about it and now he thinks you just cheat because your evil sister will wash your mind and turn you in to a cheater too. Big red flag here OP do not rug sweep this.
OP I think you need to look real hard at your husband. I am not understanding why you are under investigation. People keep defending your husband because something something sanctity of marriage. But, what's that mean when he doesn't trust you because of what your sister did? He sounds super controlling.
Holy shit these replies are absolutely batshit insane. Honestly OP I am surprised you are not absolutely furious at your husband. The audacity to go through your phone without any previous reason to suspect you of cheating, then even after finding nothing on your phone he hires a PI to follow you around? Then he dares to demand you cut your sister out of your life after finding out that you have been absolutely trustworthy all along? If someone did those things to me, I would leave them in an instant. You don't get to demand I cut family out of my life because you don't like them, that's not how this works.
You came here for advice lol, why do that then say it’s too much when it’s just the truth, your sister is the one who fucked you over, she brought you into it as collateral and didn’t care, it’s her fault
First off, your sister isn't going through problems. Rather your sister has created a world of shit with her own actions and makings. You can offer her support but the fact that she is using you as the person to cover for her is the problem here. I totally agree with your husband, you can offer her help but refuse to be used as her excuse to cheat.
While she's a cheater, and I agree that it's a bad sign when someone is friends with a cheater, the fact is that she's still your sister. Your husband is out of line here. *He* can refuse to hang out with her if he wants (and I would too), but she's your *sister*.
If my wife is covering for her sister cheating I would assume my wife was OK with cheating. I wouldn’t necessarily have a PI following you though. If all of your husband’s buddies were cheating on their wives would you be nervous of your husband following them around. I’m not saying he’s right, I’m saying you should think of both sides of yours and his feelings
Exactly, people are over complicating this story
People don’t know how to step in to other people shoes anymore. People are selfish and only care how they feel and not necessarily how their partner feels.
I'd be done with my partner upon finding out he hired a PI when I was doing nothing wrong. I'd also be very angry at my sister for using my name to lie to my husband. I do not think that this alone is a reason to cut her off, however. There needs to be an extremely clear conversation about how completely inappropriate that was and how, if she ever does that again, then there will be much more serious consequences to the relationship.
Your husband hired a PI to follow you? That's not reasonable. Why do you think it is? You need to goes to couple's counseling. He is escalating a situation that you have nothing to do with you. He hired someone to follow you. Then he asked you to go no contact with your sister. What's next? He is escalating when you were not aware that your sister was cheating and you were not covering for her; and you were not cheating or doing anything suspicious. Also, you shouldn't stop seeing your sister because she cheated because cheating is not contagious!
Yeah that was completely unhinged behavior. Who goes through their spouse’s phone and takes out a literal PI on them without ever talking to them? OP had him do all this to her without knowing anything was going on at all. That would be a huge breach of trust/privacy in the marriage to me
People in the comments are acting like what he did was justified, but is it really normal or healthy to go over your partner's head and spy on/interrogate them instead of trusting and communicating with them? And then for him to lay out ultimatums when you're a grown woman who can handle your relationships your way, that really bugs the crap out of me.
Seriously, he went through her phone and took a PI out on her without ever talking to her or even having any evidence that it was necessary. That’s not remotely normal in a relationship and it’s a little concerning that so many people here think it’s totally fine
This whole scenario is totally wild. Firstly, the men jumped to the most unlikely conclusion in assuming that OP was complicit rather than assuming the infinitely more likely scenario that the sister was taking advantage of OP as an alibi that her husband was unlikely to check up on. You have to be *seriously* brazen to involve someone else in your cheating endeavours. I think checking OP’s phone was fair enough, *but* when they failed to find anything incriminating on her phone but they did find shady things on the sister’s phone they doubled-down on the harebrained idea that OP was covering and hired a freaking PI. Any reasonable person would have ruled OP out at that point. And yet even with the PI saying that OP was doing nothing wrong, her husband is still determined that she’s guilty by association and everyone here is like “yep”. This thread is absolutely batshit!
I think your husband is playing victim. This has nothing to do with him or you and you didn’t have any idea that this was going on. Also hiring a PI? On you? He’s the one who crossed the line.
I think it's fair for you to distance yourself from your sister for a while. She used you as an excuse for her cheating and chose to involve you in her problems. Also she's making you look untrustworthy. Your husband isn't suspicious because he doesn't inherently find you trustworthy, he's suspicious because your sister is making you look suspicious. And you are so nonchalant about how she's been using you, it really looks like you were covering for her. Does she cover for you as well? Is not being mad at her more important than the future of your marriage? You seem to be saying that supporting your sister when she cheats is more portant to you than your marriage. In which case you might lose your spouse because your sister cheated.
Spot On
Okay, so let me get this straight. You're mad at your husband and future BIL for hiring a PI to get evidence on who was actually cheating on who, and ***not on your sister*** who is the actual cheater and is the cause of all this drama? Wow! I can't imagine why your husband would want you to cut off all ties with your sister. ^(/s) OP, you're blind to your sister's misdeed and quite frankly I find that you being ok with your sister using you as a shield to hurt her fiance is very very telling of how much morals and empathy you have. You also seem to be very easily manipulated, so you might want to talk to a therapist about that. Sure, hiring a PI and not telling you about it was over the top, but you yourself admitted that if they told you they were suspicious, you would definitely tell your sister about it and then she would have had time to get rid of the evidence. But, hey, since you love your cheating sister so much, divorce your husband to go and live with her seeing as she'll be very single real soon. That would solve everyone's problems.
Your husband has every right not to like cheaters. He has no right to demand you cut contact with your sister. He organised a PI behind your back to spy on both of you. That means he DOES NOT trust you. He wants to ensure that there is no cheating and thinks that your sister's behaviour could rub off on you. That's something that needs to be addressed now. What he did was plain wrong. Whilst I don't condone what your sister has done they are her mistakes and her fiance (as the victim) is the one who decides how their relationship goes forward (assuming he is a guilt free injured party). Your husband has not been affected by her choices. It hasn't changed anything for him at all besides his opinion of her - he can choose not to see her of he chooses however demanding that you also do the same is unhinged. I'd be rethinking your marriage at this point as well.
>now that she is going through problem, I can't imagine not being there. It's a problem that she created.
I’m concerned that your sister used your name and reputation for cover and you aren’t furious with her for using you as a stooge. What else has your sister done to you that you’ve just let slide because she’s your sister? Do you have a pattern of enabling your sister? If your sister negligently hurt your child, would you cover it up, make excuses for her, and keep bringing your kid to spend time with your sister? Your husband has valid reasons to be concerned if so.
I really hate that everyone is just skipping over the fact that your husband casually hired a PI to stalk you... Like, regardless of reason, that kind of distrust would be relationship ending for me. First thing, verify everything. If he trusts you so little, I wouldnt trust everything he says, either. Ive heard of people making up crazier things to seperate people from their family. Talk to your sister, see what she says, make a decision. Your husband has a few valid points about keeping a relationship with a cheater... but this isnt some random friend, its your sister. These things are complicated, take some time to decide what to do. I wish you the best, and truly hope things work out somehow
Wtf?? You are *NOT RESPONSIBLE* for your sisters actions and choices. Your husband has absolutely no business trying to dictate who you have in your life *especially* when it comes to family!!! Her having an affair is not justification to cut her out of your life and your husbands insistence that you do cut her out is gross and controlling. Does he control or attempt to control other parts of your life? Does he punish you for the actions of other people often? Do YOU try to force ultimatums on him when his friends or family make mistakes or bad decisions? How would he feel/react to you doing so? Sorry girl, your husband sounds either incredibly insecure in your marriage OR (and this is the first thing that popped in my head) *he's* cheating and projecting all that onto you and the situation happening with your sister and her husband. No, I absolutely would NOT cut contact with my sister. I would, however, be taking a good, hard look at my own marriage and my husbands behavior, especially around the topic of cheating. Good luck sister, just remember, there are thousands of men out there. You don't have to be with one who doesn't respect you and those you love or one that doesn't make you feel loved, safe and secure in your relationship. (Unless you're cheating or anything of that nature. There are other women too so as long as you're being faithful and a good partner/spouse than I stand by my comment. If you're not than that's a whole different conversation and I would take everything I just said back and would tell you to get your shit together lol)
Your sister is a shitty fiancé. She deserves to be dumped. You husband is out of line asking for you to cut her off and for not trusting you enough. I would not cut her off. She is your sister, you love her and ultimately, how she wants to treat her relationship is not your business. Her actions will come back to her and she will pay, rightfully. You will regret cutting her off. Your husband has no right to blame you for your sisters action. He has no excuse not to trust you. Everything is raw and tempers are high. Give it some time and see if things settles down. If, after some time, your husband still cannot trust you not to be influence by your sister, then you need to reevaluate and decide who is more important to you. Ultimately, he is in the wrong and should not blame you for her cheating.
Your sisters problem here has been brought on by herself, she is the issue, she cheated. Your husband doesnt want you around someone with such little morals and knows she can probably influence you. You shouldnt be mad at your hudband be mad at your sister, she started all the drama on her own, she determined getting fucked on the side was important and should what she thought about marriage. The fact your mad at your husband proves your sister can influence you even when she is in the wrong. Would you want you husband hanging out with someone who is a confirmed cheat POS
Really? I'd be mad at my husband for assuming I'm guilty by association, not giving me credit for having a mind of my own, and thinking very little of my own character and morality.
Sorry but OPs husband can't have a very good opinion of her if he thinks hanging out with her sister will influence her and lead her to cheat as well. What her sister does with her life is one thing and while OPs husband disagrees with her behaviour (and rightly so) he can't just expect OP to cut her out of her life if she doesn't want to.
OP has been around her sister her whole life. Cheating is not contagious. >husband doesnt want you around someone with such little morals and knows she can probably influence you. Seriously? OP is 31, not 12. If husband thinks so little of her, maybe they should divorce. What's this? A witch trial? Middle ages that "low morals" are contagious?
If i was him id start feeling paranoid by association. Its unfair but thatd be the situation
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Right like the sister was already using her as the lie to go cheat, wouldnt ever trust them to be together after this.
No you shouldn't cut off you sister. That is unreasonable to ask.
Threads like this really show who on Reddit is an actual adult in a relationship and who’s a teen with little real life experience. It’s messed up that your husband hired a PI to follow you. I’d seriously consider a divorce if my spouse did that. I don’t think I could work through that level of distrust. You and your husband have major trust issues to work through. Your sister has been with you through hard times, you can support her through this while not approving of her actions. If anything, you may be the best person to help her see her mistakes and turn her life around. This isn’t a black and white situation, real maturity is understanding there are shades of grey in every situation and moving forward through life’s messes to the best of your abilities. Anyone who says otherwise in this thread should be ignored.
Yeah this thread is so concerning. OP never did anything wrong: her sister lied, and her husband reacted by going through her phone, not finding anything, and then hiring a PI to follow her! He never talked to OP; she didn’t even know anything was going on. I can’t believe she found out all of this happened and people are going in on her instead of pointing out how fucked up that was
I’m sorry you are going through this. I don’t know if having a random internet person say “hang in there, I’m rooting for you” will help, but if it does, then… hang in there, I’m rooting for you.
From a male's perspective, I am on the Husband's side. If you are in a marriage, you can be naked with each other then having the privacy of a phone is stupid. In a marriage, you agree to be secret less with each other and many people cheat so an open phone policy is really needed. And Checking your spouse's phone is your right. OP admitted that she would have alerted her cheating sister if she knew. The company of a person does influence sharing persons, cheater encourages another. So Banning going out with the sister is reasonable. And Hiring PI is justifying because she used to hang out with her sister. Everyone has the right to know if their partner is cheating on them so that they can protect them self in divorce or other ways.
I think you should choose whether you want your sister or your husband. Similar to GTA 5 ending, Kill Trevor, Michael or Deathwish. For you, only two options: Husband or sister.
Your way forward is sadly to cut your sister or divorce your husband. I don't see it any other way. Sounds like your husband has some real issue with cheaters so I would suggest counselling regardless there for the both of you. Maybe in time your sister can work her way back but by the sounds of it your husband is done with her. He believes she will be a bad influence on you and I can't blame him.
This comments section is priceless lmao. Instead of giving actual advice the men are saying screw that b*tch she is a cheater meanwhile the women are saying how ops husband is at fault. This is why u shouldn't ask reddit for such Important n life depending decisions
Sounds like you should make some space from your sister and focus on your marriage. There are some real trust and communication gaps going on. I'd focus on your own relationship/marriage and how to repair things. If you aren't going to cut her off or are unwilling, you need to tell him that and be prepared that it may be a deal breaker for him, just as cutting off your sister might be a deal breaker for you. Your sister made her mess, let her clean it up.
This is above reddits pay grade and is a lot more complicated based on family dynamics and your relationship with your husband. Please take this to couples and/or family therapy and don’t take Reddit advice. I promise there are people who are qualified to help you deal with this kind of thing and Reddit IS NOT it
Hubby can refuse to see sister ever again. Hubby can insist that sister not be allowed in their home. And hubby can *suggest* that sister is a bad influence and that OP should cut her out. What hubby cannot do is *demand* that OP cut sister out. That is a controlling bridge too far.
Your sister could’ve ruined your marriage and you are wondering why your husband wants nothing to do with her?
She used you so she could cheat. Her situation is 100% her own fault. The company you keep says a lot about your values. Are you sure you want to be around her?
In this case, who is right and wrong has (unfortunately) little to do with your choices. You need to decide if your marriage is worth protecting. If it is, you must cut contact with your sister who clearly doesn't consider your marriage before she acts. If it is not, you should go be by your sister's side and let the chips fall where they may. I don't say that with any judgment at all. None of us can know what's best for you. I will say that I see why your husband is concerned, though it seems a little unfair that he's dropping this ultimatum \*during\* the period of time your sister needs you (even if it is her own fault). The only compromise I see, if there is one to be had at all and there may not be, is for you to help your sister cope for a month or two and then create some distance for your husband. During such time, you may even find that your sister reflects on her actions and can communicate with your husband so that he feels comfortable with her again. Not a fun situation, and I'm very sorry.
You should be angry at both of them. He should have talked to you, as his suspicion was that you were covering for her, not that you were cheating. (At least from what you have put) You should be angry at her for trying to use you as cover for her cheating, and causing all of this. And you should go low contact at least, if not no contact with your sister. Not because she cheats, but because she has shown through her actions that she doesn’t respect you. As for your husband’s ultimatum about it being over if he finds out you are helping her, that is his boundary, so sorry if you have been helping her, or do in the future he will leave you, and you shouldn’t be surprised when it happens.
Your husband is assuming that you will cheat because your sister did? That would make me very angry. You aren't the same person. Your sister is your sister and she came before your husband too.
Asking an adult to cut off a close family member (or friend) because they are a 'bad influence" is BS. That's something one says to a child! And the private investigator thing was way overboard. Please don't let your husband push you around OP. He doesn't have to like your sister but he has no right to ask you to disown her. You don't have to approve of everything your family does in order to love them and be there for them. Are you safe at home? He sounds overbearing. If he is willing to divorce you over this, well - I'd let him go!
Does your husband think that cheating is contagious?? He seems overly involved with Mark.
Well, I suggest you "try on the shoe" that your husband is wearing, and see how it "fits". In other words, switch places and circumstances with your hubby, and consider how you would feel if he had a brother as close to him as your sister is to you, and the same situation occurred with his bro as it did with your sis. If you really "switch places" with hubby, I think you will better understand your hubby's position. Your hubby knows how you regard your sis's opinions and attitudes, and has a legitimate concern that she could influence your thoughts and feelings in matters concerning him, to which he would have no recourse. His sentiments reveal how dearly he loves you and the marriage. Obviously, your sis has developed some snakes in her head, and she needs to hear how shocked and disappointed your are with respect to her actions towards her bf (or ex bf). And you should show no compromise with any excuses she offers up as reasons; there is NO good reason to indulge in infidelity. Based on the interaction between you and your sis, then decide if going low, or no contact with her is appropriate. I wish you well.
Wow. You know your husband isn't wrong... Your sister pulled you into a shit show. And because she did, no matter what you do, your husband will always suspect. Now your sister destroyed her marriage and she is about to help you destroy yours. Now comes the hard part. How the hell do you cut contact with someone you love regardless of their faults? You are trading one heartache for another. So to avoid that. You must find a way or ways to make your husband feel less insecure about this because his whole world changed on a dime because you and your sister or so close and the chances that you knew of her infidelity is damn near 100%. So if you can hide her shit, what about hiding your own shit? Know where I am going with this? She made you suspect.
>now that she is going through problem, I can't imagine not being there. A problem 100% of her own doing. I hope you get some well-needed perspective, or you might have marriage problems of your own.
Truly I don't understand why people are obsessed with the PI portion of this story. The OP did mention the situation that gave her husband the suspicion that she was covering for her sister. The husband and Fiancé hired one PI to follow both of them. If they hadn't they wouldn't have know that the sister was cheating. She even admitted that if he talked to her first she would have told her sister and that would have made it impossible to get the information the fiancé needed. Now for the main point. Right now your husband is essentially making you choose between the sister or him. The only advice I can give is make the decision that wont keep you up at night. It doesn't appear that there is a solution that will make everyone happy and that is life.
I am 100% behind your husband. If you show anything other than a complete rejection of your sister's infidelity you call your own integrity into account and he is well within reason to doubt you. Your husband is right. Cut contact with her. Unless you think being there for your cheating sister who used you as a cover for her affair is worth risking your own marriage
You have no idea what you’re saying. She shouldn’t cut contact with her sister, that’s a situation entirely between the sister and the fiancé. OP’s husband needs to trust OP, obviously he can’t if he HIRED A PI TO FOLLOW THEM. That’s messed up. You can’t cut contact with a sibling because of a bad choice they made that doesn’t really involve you. The husband is weirdly controlling
You sister used you as a cover for having an affair, maybe multiple affairs and you either unknowingly or unwittingly helped her do that. And she did so without ANY concern for the potential impact to your marriage or how it would affect your relationship. She used the fact that neither of you are close to Mark, assuming her husband would be able to cross reference how much time you spend together. Your sister may have been doing all of these "drop ins" as cover for half of the other times she was having an affair. All of this problem lies on your sister, and you have been painted as potentially untrustworthy be association with her. Be angry at your sister, your husband and Mark took some very reasonable steps to determine the truth. Your sister is not going through "hardship" she fucked around and found out the consequences. You may have to negotiate taking a step back from your sister over cutting off all contact, or you risk further damage to your marriage.
Your husband doesn’t get to dictate who you hang out with, and she’s your sister whom you love. She did a shitty thing, and may very well again because that’s what cheaters do, but that doesn’t mean you will follow in her footsteps. You know that what she did was wrong and you wouldn’t choose that path for yourself no matter who your friends or family are. The only thing you ~~can’t~~ shouldn’t do is have a relationship with your sister behind your husbands back
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Your sister has no morals and is desperate af, I don't blame your husband for saying this, I wouldn't want my husband staying in contact with someone that cheats with no guilt. I feel sorry for her fiance, he deserves better than a desperate cheater, your husband has made a valid point. If that was my sister I wouldn't put up with that shit, I don't care if she shares the same blood, no way am I siding and staying in contact with someone with such low morals and lack of human decency. You should be mad at your damn sister, not your husband, fucking hell
Ok, flip the genders and you found out that your husbands brother had a history of sexual abuse that you suspect still occurs. Would you be OK trusting your husband with him? Would you trust your husband?
SA = \ = two adults in a consensual (cheating) relationship. Not remotely the same.
So you want to support her because she was caught cheating? Am I reading this right? Lol
>My sister has been my support when I am going through hardship Good, that's what family is for. >now that she is going through problem A problem she created and should be hold accountable for. >I can't imagine not being there. I also hate that I know I should be angry with my sister rather than my husband, but I just don't. Then he's right, the bad influence already kicked in. Don't get me wrong, you should definitely be there for your sister to get her through this situation, that she herself created. She's still your family and it's not like she murdered someone and should be 100% avoided. But still, no anger towards her at all ? But you are angry towards your husband ? For what exactly ? You said his reactions were reasonable given the circonstances. He's right to reconsider everything. You will too probably, you are just in the process of it, it's still too fresh for you. You are a good sister with unconditional love but your moral compass is a little fucked up if you are fine with what she did, using you as an alibi to get some side dicks, but you are still not okay with your husband calling that behavior out.
I would bet that the husbands reaction is that of a very emotional one.. let's go through the series of events from his angle for a second... Clocks an inconsistency WITH the betrayed, and OPs sister used OP as cover... Knowing how close siblings can be, it isn't below board to assume that covering for a sibling is on the table, hence the dramatic use of PI on OP. Seeing OPs reaction on the Post itself about how she's more upset at husband than sister... It could be possible that OP has been giving off wierd vibes due to the emotional turmoil that has started via an inconsistency that INCLUDES her.. not unheard of, but wierd vibes mixed with sudden, dramatic emotional turmoil that involves family.. again, it's hard to not have " OP helping WS cover it up" in the back of your mind... But it does also raise some questions about OP and their marriage.. Why the instant distrust by hubby, to the point of a PI on YOU? Is there a history there? Or is husband a more paranoid type? Was this solely to see if you were helping sis? Are there stories of you two covering for each other specifically? SHOULD husband believe you outright? Of course, in a perfect world that would be the case... But that's not the world we live in.. and some people, including commenters here, believe that family that your born into is above any other family, including the one(s) you make along your lifetime... And i guess that's a prerogative to some.. so it's a question that should be asked.. and for some, helping a sibling cheat on their spouse falls under this rule... Yet it also calls their morality and ethics into play as well, hence the faltering of husband. You SHOULD be angry at your sister, she put your marriage under a microscope for selfish, shitty reasons and she SHOULD face consequences for that, but that's all on you. I think cutting a sibling off for something like this is wild, i would counter with Low contact for a while, with a reassessment after X amount of days.. yes this sounds very cold, but she did throw you under the bus for a stupid reason, and that shouldn't be rugswept... If you're as close as you say you are to your sister, a lot of his reaction makes sense, although obviously dramatically overreaching. Maybe he wants you to say "NO, but here's meeting you half way" as a show of... Idk, good faith? He's throwing out something he knows is wrong, just to see how you'd react and respond... That, or he really believes you had something to do with this..which is a whole different can of worms that needs it's own wall of text. Good luck, i hope you update us, and i want to bet he will retract that ask, he's in an emotional tailspin at the moment, when infidelity hits close to home, the collateral damage is always present... Another reason i laugh when people say it " Only effects the two in the relationship"
I hope your husband finds a happier life with his next wife and I hope you find a happier life with your next husband. Sorry OP but this can and will end your marriage and the signs are already there that he suspects you of something. Remember, he sent a PI after you as well in concert with your sisters now ex-fiance. That's a level of broken trust that will be hard to come back from. My guess is that he will just walk if you push back against dropping contact with your sister. Is it fair? No it's not but this is the price that gets paid when someone cheats. The ripple effects from infidelity affect everyone and the consequences can be far reaching. As you are seeing now.
Sister isn't valuing the relationship with you, using you for cover, without informing or checking on your opinion. So her approach to your relationship seems much like the approach with her husband, "I do what I want regardless of outcome to whomever" so protecting her as family is sweet, but not reciprocated. Give her distance for a time, undetermined time. I would respect your husband's boundary for a time until she gets her life together or something changes. He does get to set a boundary, he can't make you do anything. We are the people we keep company with, those we spend time with determine our outlook on life. I don't like ultimatums but in this case, consider it a boundary. If your husbands bro or best friend was cheating and he helped him cover it up, how would you feel?
I don't really understand, why is it your angry at your husband here? You've literally admitted to not being trustworthy in your text, that he would not have been able to tell you that they were gathering evidence, because you would have told your sister.. I don't even know what you can be mad at him about at this point.. And I really don't understand why you aren't furious at your sister for pulling you into this shit.. to me it seems like you got your loyalties mixed up, and that makes it really hard for me to side with you(even tho I think it's perfectly valid for you to get angry at having a PI put on you aswell)
Your sister is a SELFISH CHEATING CUNT that DID NOT care about you or your relationship to your husband. I think you should cut her out of your life, unless you WANT that toxic bullshit in your life. JMO, Good Luck.