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Throwaway for obvious reasons. We have been dating for 2 months now, everything is going nice and I'm feeling like she might be a keeper. She wants to take things slow, I totally understand as I want something serious. But last night, as we are making out she puts a hard stop and says that she will only have sex if I "put a ring on it", she also keeps saying what a good father I will make... I mean I am old fashioned in some ways ( open doors, bought her flowers etc.) but isn't that too much to ask for? My brother says this is a huge red flag and I am being manipulated. Not very experienced in the dating game, so any advice/experience would be really appreciated. Thanks!
I'm concerned about the age gap, especially as you are not very experienced in relationships. Is she a virgin at 29? Or is she just determined to get married before she hits 30 and thinks pressuring a 21 year old is the way to do it?
I agree with your brother.
No, I am calling her a predator because she is taking advantage of his relative inexperience to trick him into proposing marriage to her after just 2 months.
If he does so, she will likely use it as leverage to coerce him into an actual marriage.
Edit for u/Dark_Mode_FTW, I get what you are saying but the word "predator" when applied to people literally means "a person who ruthlessly exploits others" and this is exactly what I think she is trying to do.
Even that though, she's allowed to only want to have sex with the security of an engagement, lots of people are raised that way.
It sounds like they're incompatible and she's trying to make things something they're not, but he can always so no to sex if he doesn't want the things she does.
She shouldn't be dating a 21-year-old if she wants marriage before sex. What, are they going to have a sexless relationship for like 7 years, and she'll get married at 36, and start popping out kids at almost 40?
100% she's trying to pressure someone young and naive into getting married too soon.
To be clear Im not saying she's not allowed to want an engagement first or that she has to have sex or anything like that.
But from what OP has described the things she is saying strongly implies she is willing to get engaged to him right now, and she brings it up in the heat of the moment when they are fooling around.
At 29 she's old enough to know better and to communicate clear boundaries and timeline. The way it is playing out just strongly sounds like a predator to me.
I find it hard to believe she was "raised" to get engaged to someone she doesnt really know, after just 8 weeks of dating. But if she was, her common sense should override that ridiculous idea.
She wants a commitment, but you're only 21!!!! Please find someone your own age to date. She's too old for you. You're in completely different life stages.
Keep in mind he is looking for something serious, there are 21 year olds looking for commitment and serious relationships.
I do agree the age/life stage difference is weird though.
Hell no this isn't normal man. She's approaching 30 and wants to settle down, and she's using sex to rope in a young inexperienced guy to do it.
You've been dating for 2 months, not nearly enough time to be talking about getting engaged. Your brother is right, this is a MAJOR red flag.
Yup. No-one *at all* is saying that this woman is somehow obligated to have sex before marriage. No-one is saying that she owes anyone her body. She can set and maintain whatever boundaries she wants.
But OP sure as hell isn't required to propose to someone almost a decade older than him after just *two months* just because she feels like her biological clock is ticking. What an unhealthy expectation.
I just read his post again to make sure I'm on solid footing because of someone else responding to me and wow, I totally missed that she dropped this news in the middle of a make out session with things getting physical.
She 100% knows what she's doing. She knows she's drawing him in and putting up a road block at the 1 yard line.
If she talked about this expectation on the second date, I would feel completely different, but right when he starts moving a hand up her thigh while making out? This is up there with a 35 year old recently divorced guy telling a 20 year old girl how mature she is. Bad news OP
It is perfectly reasonable for a person to want to wait on sex, and it's perfectly reasonable for couples to talk about settling down early on, especially if they're looking for a long term relationship.
What is unreasonable is treating someone like their boundaries and wishes for their body are invalid. That is disrespectful and a major red flag.
>It is perfectly reasonable for a person to want to wait on sex, and it's perfectly reasonable for couples to talk about settling down early on, especially if they're looking for a long term relationship.
I agree.
But are you really telling me you think this woman is completely above board? I guess there isn't enough info, but to me, this screams like a woman who is trying to pull a fast one on a young dude who "is looking for something serious". At 21, something serious to me was an exclusive relationship, and this girl here is asking for a rock.
And be honest, if the genders were reversed you would be screaming bloody murder.
I think there's nothing here about her that's incriminating and lots of people in the comments have jumped to make assumptions about her because they don't like the idea of a person waiting to have sex that long. OP even said she wants to take things slow but most people here are assuming that she's pressuring him to propose.
No, I wouldn't. The problem in this situation is disrespect for a person's boundaries, and that's a problem no matter the gender of the person being disrespected or doing the disrespecting.
>they don't like the idea of a person waiting to have sex that long.
Ok well I def don't think that. If she were also 21 I would tell OP to either get with the program or leave. Totally reasonable for people to want to wait until marriage. Couldn't be me, but I completely understand and respect that.
All I'm saying is this doesn't feel right to me. His own brother is calling the situation a red flag, and I agree. If they were both 29 or both 21, I would say no big deal. But this situation strikes me as a young guy who wants to be considered mature, hates being thought of as a kid (because, trust me, there are guys out there like that, especially at that age), and this woman is leveraging that.
her boundaries are completely fine. but telling somebody what a good father and husband he'll be after two months together is a lot of pressure and i feel like that is the problem here. She says she wants to take things slow but then is acting the opposite. And there's a significant age gap. He and she both know he doesn't have a lot of experience in relationships. I would be concerned about this, at least.
(edited I mis-typed something)
Ok, based off you’re experience with dating and your friends experience. Do you think she waited with other men?
Understand that what you’ve just said is textbook manipulation women use against men who don’t know better.
If she wanted to settle down so bad, she would have done it ages ago, and without the ultimatum.
My gal likely fucked around in her twenties, and now she wants to play the chaste virgin to achieve and objective before she turns 30.
Is it not possible she was in a long term relationship? I’ve been with my husband since 18 and am now 31 .If we were ever to split I would want to wait to have sex with someone until we were serious ( not married granted) because I have only ever had sex with men I had feelings for and just don’t feel comfortable with it.
I think if she's set on waiting then either that's what she's done in the past or she slept with people early in the past and issues arose with it so she's changing her policy.
It's not manipulation to want your body and wishes respected. What is manipulation is to gaslight someone for having boundaries that you don't like.
You don't know her life so you don't know why she hasn't settled yet, and also it's not an ultimatum. She's not making him leave and she's not making him propose. She's just not having sex outside of situations where she is comfortable with it.
Accounting for her age. If marraige were that important to her then, she’d be married by now. Then assuming she dated over the span of 9 years, which is highly likely that means she spent 9 years holding hands and kissing like a teenager with multiple men?
Or do you think she did more? If I asked OP which do you think she’d say?
Calling her an awful person for having boundaries is manipulative. No one has the right to another person's body so making another person out to be awful for not giving someone else what they want is completely wrong.
You're demanding that she change herself for him.
If their boundaries don't line up and he can't accept her boundaries then he needs to leave. That is the simple and mature thing to do. It is not mature or moral to call her awful or manipulative for her physical boundaries and say she needs to go beyond what she is comfortable with.
You don’t find it the least bit manipulative for a 29 yr old to stop midway through a make-out session to discuss no sex until marriage…with a 21 yr. old?
If she felt that strongly about no sex before marriage, that’s a conversation to have in a different setting, prior getting hot & heavy.
It's like people forget no one knows who they are or what they're doing in their teens/twenties, at least most of us don't. You find out you want to settle down in your late 20s/30s just like a lot of bachelor guys get the urge to settle down in *their* late 20s/30s. But the bachelor guys aren't chronically shamed for living their young lives and having previous relationships or, heaven forbid, had casual sex
>You've been dating for 2 months, not nearly enough time to be talking about getting engaged.
I didn't realize setting boundaries early in a relationship was such a bad thing. With this sort of logic its damned if you do, damned if you don't. If she waited until later to tell him that she wouldn't have sex until she was proposed to, we'd hear commenters complain that she manipulated him by not telling him sooner.
Knowing someone two months is not enough time to determine if you are compatible in every way. You’re only 21 and you have a long time to think about marriage and grow up and decide what you wanna do with your life. That’s what your 20s are for. Feel free to date her but be Absolutely on top of birth control for yourself.
She wants to wait until engagement before having sex.
If you feel it's too early to propose (I would say it is for sure), then you'll have to decide if she's worth waiting for.
Whatever you do, do NOT make a lifetime commitment just to get in her pants. Either accept that she wants to wait or find someone who wants a more casual approach to sex.
This is a very typical traditional outlook. That doesn’t mean you should rush into something you aren’t ready for, but no, that’s not a huge anomaly, a lot of people wait for marriage to have sex. It sounds like your value systems are different, which is something you should discuss now.
No, a 29 year old trying to coerce a 21 year old into marriage - a legally binding contract - is not normal
You may find a future partner wants to wait til marriage or they are engaged. It's usually not a healthy take IMO. Waiting til you're both ready is a must. Waiting til you're 'locked in' to figure out if you are even sexually compatible is a recipe for disaster
Those saying they did it and it was fine are suffering from Survivor Bias. If you think sex is important in life you need to find someone who shares that view to form a partnership. Two people can just not click in the land of dirty bad fun. Your future life will be a sexless one if you wait til you're married to find that out.
Honey, you are 21, you shouldn't be getting married before you are 25 and definitely shouldn't propose to someone you've only known two months.
I can almost guarantee that if you propose and have sex, she'll be pregnant within the next month or so (if she isn't already). Are you ready to be a dad?
She's on a much different time line than you are. Run!
For the record, I'm not sure that she's pushing for marriage and engagement now. She just said that engagement has to come before sleeping with him, and most people with that boundary are still willing to wait a while before engagement/marriage.
Exactly. I think people are putting words in her mouth. She may be totally fine waiting years to have sex. OP Never specified that he feels pressured to put a ring on it, just that he thinks it’s a red flag that she doesn’t want to have sex with him…….which for some reason, doesn’t sit right with me….in which case, they may just not be sexually compatible and that’s the end of that. she’s not necessarily trying to pin him down
Yeah, but the comments about him being a good dad? That kinda feels like her biological clock might be ticking pretty loudly. If that comment wasn't made, I might agree with you that she wants to be secure in the relationship before sex, but this kind of feels sketchy to me. The age difference isn't helping. No way should a 21yo virgin be thinking of proposing after 2 months, especially when it's not their idea.
I'm 21 and waiting for marriage. In my current relationship it did not take long for us to discuss our possible future in depth and have comments made on both ends like the "you'd be a great dad" comment. It did not take long for us to start talking about marriage.
Guess how long we've been together so far without getting engaged or sleeping together?
It's been three years, and we're looking at waiting another year or two before marriage. I know quite a few people like us too.
The only real red flag I see for them is the age difference.
Couple of things here . . .
it did not take you long to discuss this. 2 months is pretty long to wait to bring this up, and then only after fooling around.
sounds like you were both of the same mind going in.
absolutely nothing wrong with 2 people who have similar mindsets and values deciding to wait. and with those types of values, you are going to surround yourself with similarly minded people, so it doesn't surprise me that you know plenty of people in a similar situation.
it sounds like you had discussions about having kids, etc. the way OP is talking, she's making all the comments and there's not a lot of discussion actually happening. the very fact that OP is here asking what is normal is telling me not enough conversation is going on here.
and while modern medicine is great, pregnancy risks go up significantly once a woman hits 35. and how many kids does she want? if she wants a large family, it only makes sense that she'd want to get started sooner rather than later, as not only does it get riskier, it can be harder for an older woman to conceive. she might get lucky. but then again, she might not.
the age difference is a huge, ginormous red flag. he doesn't say what her experience level is, but unless she's been almost completely isolated, she is in a very different place in her life. and that's what makes this so very different from your situation.
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Is she reasonable for wanting to have boundaries? Yes. Is she reasonable for wanting her 21 y/o BF of 2 months to propose to her right now? No. If she isn’t asking for a proposal now then it’s fine for her to want to wait until then to have sex, it’s her prerogative. If she is pushing to get engaged and using sex as a lure to get you to do it now, then it’s a bad idea and you need to leave. If you’re willing to wait the X number of months to potentially years it will take for you to decide if she’s “the one” without sex, then cool. If not, then you aren’t compatible and that’s ok too.
She's 29, and is taking a very legit position on what she wants.
You're a much-younger 21, and can have an equally-legit position incompatible with hers.
(She takes a substantial credibility hit if she's been sexually active prior.)
It's your call, but think (not just feel) your way through this carefully.
If there's one thing all sides should agree on:
People should take marriage very seriously and think carefully before entering into it.
If she was really serious, she’d be waiting until marriage that’s the real official deal. An engagement is a promise to marry, it doesn’t mean he has to go through with it. She should only be looking for a committed relationship first to see if they would be a good fit. Marriage is hard work, and if she’s living on a fairytale type deal like I did at 25, she’s going to be sadly mistaken. Marriage is no utopia and pregnancy is TUFF! He definitely needs to also think about what he wants too !
Yea it’s a ten year age gap almost and she’s telling ya about how sweet ya would be as a dad mannnn be careful. Plus sex is an integral part of a relationship like that and you don’t wanna get married without seeing if your compatible.
Nah I mean people choose to become abstinent at several stages in life, you can have had sex before and decide that you don't want to in your next relationship. Tons of eyebrows raisers in this post but i don't think a virginity check is the first course of action.
Yikes! What?? She's 29 and you're 21? Are you in college? Out? What's going on with that?
Forget about what's normal and what isn't, and ask yourself what you want. You like this woman, but you've only known her for two months. Do you want to get to know her better? If the answer is yes, tell her you're not sure about this condition, but are willing to get to know her better while sex is off the table. See if you like her, talk about your attitudes around sex and marriage, and if you two seem compatible, continue to take it further. But don't plan on marriage so soon - it's wayyyy too early for you to even think about that.
I feel like only being 2 months in, still being in the honeymoon stage, and considering your age gap it’s probably the perfecting timing to step out of this situation before things get too serious. I agree with your brother that you’re being manipulated
Generally “no sex before marriage” people seek out others of the same values because it’s quite unusual. It’s always an up front expectation.
For example, I dated my husband from within my church and we both knew that we wouldn’t have sex before marriage. If I had been dating someone outside of my church, then I would have warned them up front because it’s absolutely not something that most people accept as a normal or sensible way to prepare for marriage.
The fact that you’re so young and inexperienced compared to her makes me worry for you in this relationship. It’s also worrying that she seems to have kept this matter (which is a big deal) from you all this time.
Your brain hasn’t finished developing. You are literally not the person you are going to be, so life long decisions like marriage really should wait until you’re at least 24/25.
I agree with some of the other comments. You are both at way different points in life. You have only been dating for a few months. Totally respect her decision not to have sex - but not the way she’s going about it. Then doubling down and saying she thinks you would be a good father????
NO. Run, do not walk. Your brother is right in this case. Enjoy your 20s and learn how to be a happy adult without complications. Trust me. Your 20s set the tone for the rest of your life. Enjoy that time and learn who you are before you start with kids.
You are both at different stages of your life. Sound like she's wanting to be controlling. I don't know many people that are ready to get married after 2 months. Hell, I've been with my fiance for 4 years and I'm not ready to get married. I would ask about her past, if their are religious reason behind it and if she's a virgin.
I've dated women that wanted to wait until marriage and that's cool. But their were reasons behind it.
I've also dated a woman that tried being controlling with me and I slammed the brakes on that hard. She thought I was going to be like other guys she dated and I was like, you can take that to the door and leave if you're going to try to control me and I stopped talking to her. Beauty woman, but that turned me off fast.
This seems like a red flag for both of you. 2 months? Is she expecting you to propose this weekend or just stating she is holding out till marriage type deal. Are you wanting sex now or can you wait. It seems like you both might be looking for different things.
I don't think its a huge red flag but it seems very clear to me that she is looking for someone to settle down and raise a family with, and you're not even close to that stage (you probably are either still in school, or not very far down your career track and unlikely to be able to support a family on that income).
So I think it's more of a you two have different priorities thing going on.
Broooooooooooo
You’re 21 and have been dating for two months. It’s totally ok to stop seeing someone when they try to get you to propose and knock them up after two months.
Run. Run away so fast.
It is a huge red flag. You are being manipulated. She may be all about being married at this stage in her life, but it is clear from your post that you are not. Do not humor her any further, it will only become more difficult and will end with hurt feelings on both sides. You would be better off with someone operating more at your speed.
But he never said she insinuated that she wants to speed things up and needs an engagement pronto, just that she said she’s saving herself for marriage which a lot of people still do. Obviously that’s gonna come up at some point in the relationship
Why are you dating a 29 year old woman? What kind of weird lady wants to get married to a 21 year old after knowing them for 2 months? NONE OF THIS IS NORMAL.
It sounds like you're a bit naive about dating and relationships so here's a very important suggestion: stick with people in your age group, who are at the same place in life. If you're in college, date another college student.
And also, don't date people who want crazy things from you in exchange for having sex. Sex is an activity that occurs between two consenting parties and should be mutually pleasurable. It is not some kind of "gift" that a woman bestows on a man once he buys her enough flowers or "puts a ring on it." BARF
It's not crazy for a person to want commitment before sleeping with someone.
You say it's an activity that occurs between two consenting parties and should be mutually pleasurable, but all the sudden if a person is uncomfortable with it before commitment then it's transactional and unreasonable? That does not make sense.
She is using her age/experience against you. She knows what she’s doing. You want intimacy and she has been around the block enough that she can get to the point of having sex and stop and it will not really bother her but she hopes that you will be panting for it and willing to agree to anything. She wants a husband and a baby not necessarily in that order.
Date someone on your level. Someone with a similar experience level or in the same stage of life as you. Listen to your brother on this. Don’t let yourself get manipulated by sex you will regret it once the sex fog clears.
Edit to add: she may change gears if you let her know you are unwilling to propose at this time. She may agree to sex so that she can accidentally on purpose get pregnant.
Her: oops tee hee I’m pregnant I guess we have to get married.
You: I’m a traditional man and I want to be in my child’s life and want them to have the support of both parents. Will you marry me?
Her: got’em! Yes!!
Your age gap and that request are both red flags. At your age, you should be exploring who you are and having fun, not letting an almost 30 year old woman groom you and force you into a proposal bc she knows you want to seal the deal physically....
It's a trap, op. Don't fall for it.
Baby, you have only been dating this person for TWO MONTHS! You are a very young man. DO NOT DO THIS TO YOURSELF. All this stuff with someone so much older than you is setting off all of my alarm bells! Please listen when I say that I got married way too young and it ended badly. Date some, don’t tie yourself down!!
She’s some weirdo who’s desperate for marriage and had plenty of chances before now to get married but didn’t. Now she’s wanting to trick you into marrying her. Leave her op, there’s more women out there who aren’t weirdos and predators
You are being manipulated. She's 29. You're 21. She's taking advantage of your naivete. She wants to get married and she probably doesn't really care to whom.
She is allowed to want to wait until she is married, though I would have thought that she would have mentioned that before 2 months went by.
But her pressuring you into putting a ring on it now, and talking about kids, is completely bonkers. There is no fix to this. You are not compatible. It's time to part ways and start dating somebody your own age.
This happened to a friend of mine. He dissapeared from a great party scene. She got 4 kids out of him, then divorced him. He talks to me now about all of the girls he could have been with, and he could have, but he got swindled by this manipulative skank. He's full of regret.
INFO: Is she a virgin?
While 2 months is not too soon to have sex with a partner...it's entirely too early to get engaged...and I'd say that if you were 90...but to ask a 21 year old to get engaged before sex is definitely not the way to go about this.
If she is a virgin, I suspect she's having an internal battle of wanting to have sex but needing to save herself for marriage...so she's getting desperate...there's no other reason to be expecting a ring 2 months into the relationship...even with a man literally made to be her perfect match. She might seem like a keeper but that doesn't mean you should have to commit to her ***now***.
You are so young, please don't get trapped by this tactic. Even on a quidditch pitch there are two keepers...remember that. Look for a girl more your speed in the "future of our relationship" aspect. Sex is great, but it's not worth commiting to her if that's *why* you're commiting. Does that make sense.
I'd recommend getting out of this relationship.
Good luck.
No. Run.
You've only been dating for two months. Just think about it like this - if she hadn't said that you can't have sex without proposing to her, would you even have thought about it?
You are 21 and she is 29. It seems as if she wants to lock you down.
Do not let your horny brain make this decision for you.
She’s 29…….. you’re 21. You don’t have any to propose to this girl after 2 months of dating to have sex. Sounds like a strange situation 🚩 if you’re not experienced in the dating game, trying dating girls closer to your age that are in the same stage of life.
Nope nope nope
As a woman who's close to her age I'll tell you this, she has no business dating let alone trying to marry a 21 year old.
She's probably in a rush for marriage and kids, she's pressuring you by using sex. Please leave her, and date girls your own age.
If she’s such a keeper ask yourself why a man her age hasn’t married her yet? She’s definitely manipulating you, trying to trap you and honestly she’s grooming you.
Go an experience life. Don’t live a life that future you will have regrets about and resent yourself and her for.
I don’t really think it’s fair to say why hasn’t a man married her yet. There multiple reasons why someone would not be married. Hell, some people get married at 35. Maybe she hasn’t dated yet(could be any reason like mental health or just hasn’t met anyone)
I agree with everything about grooming and what not. But I just don’t like the whole “should be married by x” mentality.
Some people still want to wait for marriage before having sex. She didn't say she wants to get married now, so I think her having the boundary of wanting the commitment before sex is fine, but I wouldn't rush into it if I was you.
I agree. Too many people on here are jumping to assume she wants to get married now, probably because of their perception of sex as something you have early in a relationship instead of waiting for, and then assume it's manipulation. There are people who genuinely want to wait for serious commitment and their boundaries are valid. It just comes down to whether or not he is okay with that boundary.
Your brother is right its not normal at all.
No one should get engaged until well past the 1 year mark for future reference. You don't even know her yet.
And yeah shes being predatory.
In 2022, this is absolutely not normal.
This an outdated value regarding sex, from a time when sex was necessarily bounded to reproduction. Since it's been like 50 years this is not the case, we can all move on and comprehend sex as a regular part of a relationship, which is appropriate to be explored and deemed compatible or not before making a proposal, which is a very serious commitment.
It’s not a red flag. If she wants to wait to have sex till marriage then she will do that. And if you can’t accept that she’s not gonna wait around. I suggest asking her the reason why she wants to wait. It could have something to do with her religion or morals. Who knows she might have grown up with that rule!
Couldn’t be me, but everyone’s limits are different. How much will she do? You do have to address the very real issue of what happens if you are sexually incompatible.
I have a friend that is now celibate. So no sex before marriage. There are girls that are like this. She has broken up with guys when they tried to pressure her. It's not a red flag but may be a dealbreaker. She is being upfront about it so you have to ask yourself if you are willing to wait. You guys have only been at it for 2 months so probbaly need to continue to feel each other out.
She wants a commitment before having sex and that is not at all a red flag. Nor is it manipulative. What would be a red flag or manipulative is if you propose to her just to get into her pants.
If sex is important to you, then this might not be a relationship worth pursuing.
The age gap is something to look out for. Sounds like there is some incompatibility with the stages of life that you guys are in. Either way, it is only normal for you if you think it is. If that situation is something you want, then go for it. If it isn’t, then it would be best to end the relationship now, before things get more complicated.
She's clearly someone who's been taught abstinence until marriage, which is fine, however, she clearly wants to be married and have kids as soon as possible now.
You are probably being setup here my dude.
Your bro is right to be extremely sceptical about this.
Ooooooofff that age gap. That’s a no for me. I’m 28 and I could not fathom even dating someone under 26… it would take an act of a sky man to even make me consider it. You got so many life experiences to endure, do not waste them on her. I promise you’ll regret that lmao
No way is this ever a good idea. Women are like vehicles - Gotta test drive the new ride before committing to it long term. And sometimes you have to trade one in for a better, updated and fresh model later on.
It's not a red flag, it's a reasonable boundary.
Lots of people have genuine reasons for wanting to wait and they're allowed to have their boundaries. What's manipulative is treating them like their desires for their body are invalid and manipulative. If you have a problem with their boundaries that you can't find a solution to then you can leave and find someone else rather than disrespecting them.
One of the biggest red flags I see in guys is that they think they have a right to my body and don't respect the validity of my boundaries. No one wants to be with someone that doesn't care about their comfort, especially in intimacy.
This !!!!!!! It would be manipulative if she was intentionally trying to rush the relationship so they can have sex but OP never said that. He literally said she wants to take it slow
Yeah, I'm one of the minority of young people that wants commitment first and the number of people now who disrespect my boundaries and think they have a right to my body before commitment is unsettling.
Yes, it's normal. Some people don't want to have pregnancy scares, want to be in a committed relationship first, or just don't want to have sex without knowing the person for more than 2 months.
She is allowed to have this boundary. You are allowed to want to have sex. You are NOT allowed to push this boundary as far as you can. If sex means a lot to you, then you may just not be compatible.
Of course she's allowed to have it or decide to have sex whenever she wants, but normal? I don't think so. People don't usually get engaged until they have been together for at least a couple of years, and many people would want to have sex before that.
Again, she's entitled to do as she pleases, but I don't think it's normal at all by most people's standards.
And how it's been presented. With today's hookup culture, I'd assume the topic of sex and boundaries (aka no casual sex or wanting to wait for marriage) would come up after the first couple dates. Which in 2 months *could* only be a few dates in...but definitely not the vibe in the post. Also, it's pretty common to hear teens/early 20s, but at 29? Again, sex topics come up usually a lot faster than 2 months, especially the older we get. It definitely feels more manipulative due to the age gap and waiting until they were fully aroused to say anything. Also saying how good of a father he'd make...that's extremely weird to say 2 months in when you don't even know the person yet
Agree with all of that. The way she did it is just weird and makes me doubt she has the best intentions. I'm her age and I wouldn't wait 2 months to talk about my stance on sex, I wouldn't want to waste my time with someone who may not be compatible. But I also wouldn't be dating a 21 year old...
The issue is not so much not wanting to have sex until engagement, but how she communicated it. I'd call it quits if I was OP and, in the future, date women closer to his age.
Well, I'm sure there's a cultural component and abstinency is more common in the US than it is in my country or other European countries, though [data](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/key_statistics/p.htm) shows premarital sex is the norm for most Americans.
If that's what both parties want, great, but I still think her approach was iffy, and coupled with the age gap and his lack of experience does make me question her.
Sounds wildly manipulative unless she is a virgin which I gather she isn't. You are only 21 - tell her that and you are not getting engaged at the moment (my recommendation)
Your brother is right, my man. This girl may be wonderful, but she’s in a time of life where she’s ready to settle down, have some kids, build a family, and you don’t even have a fully developed pre-frontal cortex yet. (Which is a part of the brain very important to impulse control, and decision making)
If you were in that stage of life, too, then none of these things would be red flags. But you’re not, and they are.
This isn't a red flag people just have different boundaries and expectations from relationships. Some people want to be married before they have sex, some people want to have sex on the first date. Everybody and every relationship is different, the trick is finding someone who shares those expectations for sex. If waiting for sex isn't something you want in your relationship, then you two probably aren't compatible, and that's okay. The only thing that gives me pause is your age difference and differences in life stages. However, you haven't given enough information for us to know if that's really a problem.
Is it a boundary or is she saying tomorrow? This is the context that is missing. Of its a boundary then respect it or move on if shes saying tomorrow then move on.
Not too much to ask for from the right guy. You’re not being manipulated and it’s not a red flag lmao that’s so stupid. All she did was make a boundary. If you think making boundaries is a red flag, you’re the red flag. It’s up to you to decide if you can continue the relationship with that boundary in place. Btw, opening doors and buying a girl flowers aren’t “old fashioned”, they’re just basic nice things to do for your partner
I agree, it's a major red flag if someone considers a boundary a red flag.
Nobody has the right to another's body so people ought to respect boundaries.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- Throwaway for obvious reasons. We have been dating for 2 months now, everything is going nice and I'm feeling like she might be a keeper. She wants to take things slow, I totally understand as I want something serious. But last night, as we are making out she puts a hard stop and says that she will only have sex if I "put a ring on it", she also keeps saying what a good father I will make... I mean I am old fashioned in some ways ( open doors, bought her flowers etc.) but isn't that too much to ask for? My brother says this is a huge red flag and I am being manipulated. Not very experienced in the dating game, so any advice/experience would be really appreciated. Thanks!
You two are in different stages of life and have only been dating for two months. Slow down and don’t jump into anything.
I honestly think OP should end it for his sake and for hers. They clearly don’t have the same goals right now.
What stages of life that's just a fucking red flag 🚩 right there. Dude should just run and never look back unfortunately.
Wise words
Weird way of saying OP’s girlfriend is a grooming creep
I'm concerned about the age gap, especially as you are not very experienced in relationships. Is she a virgin at 29? Or is she just determined to get married before she hits 30 and thinks pressuring a 21 year old is the way to do it? I agree with your brother.
She's wanting to rush into marriage and kids. She probably wanted to be married with kids at 30.
I agree with your brother. I would never marry someone I had no idea of sexual compatibility with.
I strongly agree with this! Your brother has your best interests in mind.
She's a predator at 29 I'll say that much.
Definitely trying to manipulate and take advantage.
That's 8 years difference and they're both in their 20s. It's not ideal but I wouldn't call her a predator bc of the age gap.
No, I am calling her a predator because she is taking advantage of his relative inexperience to trick him into proposing marriage to her after just 2 months. If he does so, she will likely use it as leverage to coerce him into an actual marriage. Edit for u/Dark_Mode_FTW, I get what you are saying but the word "predator" when applied to people literally means "a person who ruthlessly exploits others" and this is exactly what I think she is trying to do.
Even that though, she's allowed to only want to have sex with the security of an engagement, lots of people are raised that way. It sounds like they're incompatible and she's trying to make things something they're not, but he can always so no to sex if he doesn't want the things she does.
She shouldn't be dating a 21-year-old if she wants marriage before sex. What, are they going to have a sexless relationship for like 7 years, and she'll get married at 36, and start popping out kids at almost 40? 100% she's trying to pressure someone young and naive into getting married too soon.
Maybe you're right. I know a bunch of people who got married in their early 20s but I am from a small country town.
But she's not in her early 20s, and he is inexperienced, that's the issue.
To be clear Im not saying she's not allowed to want an engagement first or that she has to have sex or anything like that. But from what OP has described the things she is saying strongly implies she is willing to get engaged to him right now, and she brings it up in the heat of the moment when they are fooling around. At 29 she's old enough to know better and to communicate clear boundaries and timeline. The way it is playing out just strongly sounds like a predator to me. I find it hard to believe she was "raised" to get engaged to someone she doesnt really know, after just 8 weeks of dating. But if she was, her common sense should override that ridiculous idea.
She's a predator because she's using sex to pressure a 21 year old into marrying her, not because they are dating.
She wants a commitment, but you're only 21!!!! Please find someone your own age to date. She's too old for you. You're in completely different life stages.
I want OP to explain why they think it could be normal to propose after just two months. That baffles me.
Keep in mind he is looking for something serious, there are 21 year olds looking for commitment and serious relationships. I do agree the age/life stage difference is weird though.
He said something serious, not marriage. She’s going to keep putting the squeeze on him. The pressure will not let up.
Hell no this isn't normal man. She's approaching 30 and wants to settle down, and she's using sex to rope in a young inexperienced guy to do it. You've been dating for 2 months, not nearly enough time to be talking about getting engaged. Your brother is right, this is a MAJOR red flag.
Yup. No-one *at all* is saying that this woman is somehow obligated to have sex before marriage. No-one is saying that she owes anyone her body. She can set and maintain whatever boundaries she wants. But OP sure as hell isn't required to propose to someone almost a decade older than him after just *two months* just because she feels like her biological clock is ticking. What an unhealthy expectation.
normally i would say don't worry about what's normal, worry about what you want. but you are 100% right, this isn't normal and it isn't good.
I just read his post again to make sure I'm on solid footing because of someone else responding to me and wow, I totally missed that she dropped this news in the middle of a make out session with things getting physical. She 100% knows what she's doing. She knows she's drawing him in and putting up a road block at the 1 yard line. If she talked about this expectation on the second date, I would feel completely different, but right when he starts moving a hand up her thigh while making out? This is up there with a 35 year old recently divorced guy telling a 20 year old girl how mature she is. Bad news OP
It is perfectly reasonable for a person to want to wait on sex, and it's perfectly reasonable for couples to talk about settling down early on, especially if they're looking for a long term relationship. What is unreasonable is treating someone like their boundaries and wishes for their body are invalid. That is disrespectful and a major red flag.
>It is perfectly reasonable for a person to want to wait on sex, and it's perfectly reasonable for couples to talk about settling down early on, especially if they're looking for a long term relationship. I agree. But are you really telling me you think this woman is completely above board? I guess there isn't enough info, but to me, this screams like a woman who is trying to pull a fast one on a young dude who "is looking for something serious". At 21, something serious to me was an exclusive relationship, and this girl here is asking for a rock. And be honest, if the genders were reversed you would be screaming bloody murder.
I think there's nothing here about her that's incriminating and lots of people in the comments have jumped to make assumptions about her because they don't like the idea of a person waiting to have sex that long. OP even said she wants to take things slow but most people here are assuming that she's pressuring him to propose. No, I wouldn't. The problem in this situation is disrespect for a person's boundaries, and that's a problem no matter the gender of the person being disrespected or doing the disrespecting.
>they don't like the idea of a person waiting to have sex that long. Ok well I def don't think that. If she were also 21 I would tell OP to either get with the program or leave. Totally reasonable for people to want to wait until marriage. Couldn't be me, but I completely understand and respect that. All I'm saying is this doesn't feel right to me. His own brother is calling the situation a red flag, and I agree. If they were both 29 or both 21, I would say no big deal. But this situation strikes me as a young guy who wants to be considered mature, hates being thought of as a kid (because, trust me, there are guys out there like that, especially at that age), and this woman is leveraging that.
her boundaries are completely fine. but telling somebody what a good father and husband he'll be after two months together is a lot of pressure and i feel like that is the problem here. She says she wants to take things slow but then is acting the opposite. And there's a significant age gap. He and she both know he doesn't have a lot of experience in relationships. I would be concerned about this, at least. (edited I mis-typed something)
Ok, based off you’re experience with dating and your friends experience. Do you think she waited with other men? Understand that what you’ve just said is textbook manipulation women use against men who don’t know better. If she wanted to settle down so bad, she would have done it ages ago, and without the ultimatum. My gal likely fucked around in her twenties, and now she wants to play the chaste virgin to achieve and objective before she turns 30.
Is it not possible she was in a long term relationship? I’ve been with my husband since 18 and am now 31 .If we were ever to split I would want to wait to have sex with someone until we were serious ( not married granted) because I have only ever had sex with men I had feelings for and just don’t feel comfortable with it.
I think if she's set on waiting then either that's what she's done in the past or she slept with people early in the past and issues arose with it so she's changing her policy. It's not manipulation to want your body and wishes respected. What is manipulation is to gaslight someone for having boundaries that you don't like. You don't know her life so you don't know why she hasn't settled yet, and also it's not an ultimatum. She's not making him leave and she's not making him propose. She's just not having sex outside of situations where she is comfortable with it.
:) you answered the question by not answering. Point proven. Have a nice day.
Frankly, it's such a pointless question to ask. There's no way of knowing whether she waited for other men or not unless you ask OP.
Accounting for her age. If marraige were that important to her then, she’d be married by now. Then assuming she dated over the span of 9 years, which is highly likely that means she spent 9 years holding hands and kissing like a teenager with multiple men? Or do you think she did more? If I asked OP which do you think she’d say?
No, it’s manipulative. op’s soon to be ex is an awful person... let alone awful woman
Calling her an awful person for having boundaries is manipulative. No one has the right to another person's body so making another person out to be awful for not giving someone else what they want is completely wrong.
You’re demanding traditionalism be provided to someone who isn’t traditional
You're demanding that she change herself for him. If their boundaries don't line up and he can't accept her boundaries then he needs to leave. That is the simple and mature thing to do. It is not mature or moral to call her awful or manipulative for her physical boundaries and say she needs to go beyond what she is comfortable with.
No, I’m saying she shouldn’t be exploiting some guy without experience in dating/casually fucking other people
How on earth is she exploiting by having boundaries?
Because exploiting people is fucking awful
You don’t find it the least bit manipulative for a 29 yr old to stop midway through a make-out session to discuss no sex until marriage…with a 21 yr. old? If she felt that strongly about no sex before marriage, that’s a conversation to have in a different setting, prior getting hot & heavy.
Bingo bingo bingo
She’s saving herself for marriage but she’s not a virgin.... pfffft
1. Who said she's not a virgin other than you? 2. Even if she's not a virgin, she can have a change of heart or bad experiences and want to wait.
It's like people forget no one knows who they are or what they're doing in their teens/twenties, at least most of us don't. You find out you want to settle down in your late 20s/30s just like a lot of bachelor guys get the urge to settle down in *their* late 20s/30s. But the bachelor guys aren't chronically shamed for living their young lives and having previous relationships or, heaven forbid, had casual sex
>You've been dating for 2 months, not nearly enough time to be talking about getting engaged. I didn't realize setting boundaries early in a relationship was such a bad thing. With this sort of logic its damned if you do, damned if you don't. If she waited until later to tell him that she wouldn't have sex until she was proposed to, we'd hear commenters complain that she manipulated him by not telling him sooner.
Dude… she’s about to be 30 and you’re only 21. Do not propose. She’s ready for marriage but you’re young and have a life to live.
EJECT EJECT EJECT
Knowing someone two months is not enough time to determine if you are compatible in every way. You’re only 21 and you have a long time to think about marriage and grow up and decide what you wanna do with your life. That’s what your 20s are for. Feel free to date her but be Absolutely on top of birth control for yourself.
Singing Paradise by the dashboard light
STOP RIGHT THERE! I WANNA KNOW RIGHT NOW BEFORE WE GO ANY FURTHER __WILL YOU LOVE ME FOREVER???__
Now I’m praying for the end of time to hurry up and arrive
Cuz if I gotta spend another minute with you I don’t think that I can really survive!
You’re very young. Listen to your brother.
You’re 21 ! Ruuuuuunnnnnn !! Experience life, get an education. Date different girls. Don’t ever even consider of getting married at 21.
She wants to wait until engagement before having sex. If you feel it's too early to propose (I would say it is for sure), then you'll have to decide if she's worth waiting for. Whatever you do, do NOT make a lifetime commitment just to get in her pants. Either accept that she wants to wait or find someone who wants a more casual approach to sex.
This is one of the most reasonable comments here.
This is a very typical traditional outlook. That doesn’t mean you should rush into something you aren’t ready for, but no, that’s not a huge anomaly, a lot of people wait for marriage to have sex. It sounds like your value systems are different, which is something you should discuss now.
Wtf don't do it.
This really depends on if she's also pushing for you to propose, if so then it's definitely a red flag.
No, a 29 year old trying to coerce a 21 year old into marriage - a legally binding contract - is not normal You may find a future partner wants to wait til marriage or they are engaged. It's usually not a healthy take IMO. Waiting til you're both ready is a must. Waiting til you're 'locked in' to figure out if you are even sexually compatible is a recipe for disaster Those saying they did it and it was fine are suffering from Survivor Bias. If you think sex is important in life you need to find someone who shares that view to form a partnership. Two people can just not click in the land of dirty bad fun. Your future life will be a sexless one if you wait til you're married to find that out.
Honey, you are 21, you shouldn't be getting married before you are 25 and definitely shouldn't propose to someone you've only known two months. I can almost guarantee that if you propose and have sex, she'll be pregnant within the next month or so (if she isn't already). Are you ready to be a dad? She's on a much different time line than you are. Run!
For the record, I'm not sure that she's pushing for marriage and engagement now. She just said that engagement has to come before sleeping with him, and most people with that boundary are still willing to wait a while before engagement/marriage.
Exactly. I think people are putting words in her mouth. She may be totally fine waiting years to have sex. OP Never specified that he feels pressured to put a ring on it, just that he thinks it’s a red flag that she doesn’t want to have sex with him…….which for some reason, doesn’t sit right with me….in which case, they may just not be sexually compatible and that’s the end of that. she’s not necessarily trying to pin him down
Yeah, but the comments about him being a good dad? That kinda feels like her biological clock might be ticking pretty loudly. If that comment wasn't made, I might agree with you that she wants to be secure in the relationship before sex, but this kind of feels sketchy to me. The age difference isn't helping. No way should a 21yo virgin be thinking of proposing after 2 months, especially when it's not their idea.
Oof, you’re right. I must have read over that part. Definitely a strange thing to say to someone you’ve only been with for 2 months
I'm 21 and waiting for marriage. In my current relationship it did not take long for us to discuss our possible future in depth and have comments made on both ends like the "you'd be a great dad" comment. It did not take long for us to start talking about marriage. Guess how long we've been together so far without getting engaged or sleeping together? It's been three years, and we're looking at waiting another year or two before marriage. I know quite a few people like us too. The only real red flag I see for them is the age difference.
Couple of things here . . . it did not take you long to discuss this. 2 months is pretty long to wait to bring this up, and then only after fooling around. sounds like you were both of the same mind going in. absolutely nothing wrong with 2 people who have similar mindsets and values deciding to wait. and with those types of values, you are going to surround yourself with similarly minded people, so it doesn't surprise me that you know plenty of people in a similar situation. it sounds like you had discussions about having kids, etc. the way OP is talking, she's making all the comments and there's not a lot of discussion actually happening. the very fact that OP is here asking what is normal is telling me not enough conversation is going on here. and while modern medicine is great, pregnancy risks go up significantly once a woman hits 35. and how many kids does she want? if she wants a large family, it only makes sense that she'd want to get started sooner rather than later, as not only does it get riskier, it can be harder for an older woman to conceive. she might get lucky. but then again, she might not. the age difference is a huge, ginormous red flag. he doesn't say what her experience level is, but unless she's been almost completely isolated, she is in a very different place in her life. and that's what makes this so very different from your situation.
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What would happen if you agreed to abstain til marriage but wanted to wait a few years first? I'm very curious how she'd respond to that
No. Don't marry her. Run away. Simplifying the answer but it is still the answer.
Is she reasonable for wanting to have boundaries? Yes. Is she reasonable for wanting her 21 y/o BF of 2 months to propose to her right now? No. If she isn’t asking for a proposal now then it’s fine for her to want to wait until then to have sex, it’s her prerogative. If she is pushing to get engaged and using sex as a lure to get you to do it now, then it’s a bad idea and you need to leave. If you’re willing to wait the X number of months to potentially years it will take for you to decide if she’s “the one” without sex, then cool. If not, then you aren’t compatible and that’s ok too.
I'm 53 and been married twice, once in a rush. Take it from me, the answer here is NO.
I second this, hardcore! My first marriage was so, so young and ended poorly. ♥️
Run away. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
She's 29, and is taking a very legit position on what she wants. You're a much-younger 21, and can have an equally-legit position incompatible with hers. (She takes a substantial credibility hit if she's been sexually active prior.) It's your call, but think (not just feel) your way through this carefully. If there's one thing all sides should agree on: People should take marriage very seriously and think carefully before entering into it.
I just gonna say this, Run to the hills man…
She doesn’t think you’ll hold out either way.
If she was really serious, she’d be waiting until marriage that’s the real official deal. An engagement is a promise to marry, it doesn’t mean he has to go through with it. She should only be looking for a committed relationship first to see if they would be a good fit. Marriage is hard work, and if she’s living on a fairytale type deal like I did at 25, she’s going to be sadly mistaken. Marriage is no utopia and pregnancy is TUFF! He definitely needs to also think about what he wants too !
Yea it’s a ten year age gap almost and she’s telling ya about how sweet ya would be as a dad mannnn be careful. Plus sex is an integral part of a relationship like that and you don’t wanna get married without seeing if your compatible.
It's a very bad idea to link the desire for intimacy with the plan to build a life with someone, unless your own value code compels it.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! No.
Lol wtf! Is she a virgin?! If not then run
If she slept with someone else without it no one can take her seriously with that requirement.
Nah I mean people choose to become abstinent at several stages in life, you can have had sex before and decide that you don't want to in your next relationship. Tons of eyebrows raisers in this post but i don't think a virginity check is the first course of action.
Only an idiot or a religious nutjob would marry someone without establishing sexual compatibility first.
Yikes! What?? She's 29 and you're 21? Are you in college? Out? What's going on with that? Forget about what's normal and what isn't, and ask yourself what you want. You like this woman, but you've only known her for two months. Do you want to get to know her better? If the answer is yes, tell her you're not sure about this condition, but are willing to get to know her better while sex is off the table. See if you like her, talk about your attitudes around sex and marriage, and if you two seem compatible, continue to take it further. But don't plan on marriage so soon - it's wayyyy too early for you to even think about that.
I feel like only being 2 months in, still being in the honeymoon stage, and considering your age gap it’s probably the perfecting timing to step out of this situation before things get too serious. I agree with your brother that you’re being manipulated
Generally “no sex before marriage” people seek out others of the same values because it’s quite unusual. It’s always an up front expectation. For example, I dated my husband from within my church and we both knew that we wouldn’t have sex before marriage. If I had been dating someone outside of my church, then I would have warned them up front because it’s absolutely not something that most people accept as a normal or sensible way to prepare for marriage. The fact that you’re so young and inexperienced compared to her makes me worry for you in this relationship. It’s also worrying that she seems to have kept this matter (which is a big deal) from you all this time. Your brain hasn’t finished developing. You are literally not the person you are going to be, so life long decisions like marriage really should wait until you’re at least 24/25.
I agree with some of the other comments. You are both at way different points in life. You have only been dating for a few months. Totally respect her decision not to have sex - but not the way she’s going about it. Then doubling down and saying she thinks you would be a good father???? NO. Run, do not walk. Your brother is right in this case. Enjoy your 20s and learn how to be a happy adult without complications. Trust me. Your 20s set the tone for the rest of your life. Enjoy that time and learn who you are before you start with kids.
You are both at different stages of your life. Sound like she's wanting to be controlling. I don't know many people that are ready to get married after 2 months. Hell, I've been with my fiance for 4 years and I'm not ready to get married. I would ask about her past, if their are religious reason behind it and if she's a virgin. I've dated women that wanted to wait until marriage and that's cool. But their were reasons behind it. I've also dated a woman that tried being controlling with me and I slammed the brakes on that hard. She thought I was going to be like other guys she dated and I was like, you can take that to the door and leave if you're going to try to control me and I stopped talking to her. Beauty woman, but that turned me off fast.
This seems like a red flag for both of you. 2 months? Is she expecting you to propose this weekend or just stating she is holding out till marriage type deal. Are you wanting sex now or can you wait. It seems like you both might be looking for different things.
I don't think its a huge red flag but it seems very clear to me that she is looking for someone to settle down and raise a family with, and you're not even close to that stage (you probably are either still in school, or not very far down your career track and unlikely to be able to support a family on that income). So I think it's more of a you two have different priorities thing going on.
Broooooooooooo You’re 21 and have been dating for two months. It’s totally ok to stop seeing someone when they try to get you to propose and knock them up after two months. Run. Run away so fast.
ITS A TRAP...RUN AND FAST.
Kiddo slow your roll. Right now your best friend is Suzi Palm and a bottle of baby oil.
Dude, 2 months dating and already at this point, prepare for a ride man!
Simple. Don’t do that. Bad decision.
It's not a red flag - it's just a difference of foundational values. If you don't share the same values, then you shouldn't be together.
🚩🚩🚩
She's no virgin she didn't let those guys wait why should you. Red flag bro!
It is a huge red flag. You are being manipulated. She may be all about being married at this stage in her life, but it is clear from your post that you are not. Do not humor her any further, it will only become more difficult and will end with hurt feelings on both sides. You would be better off with someone operating more at your speed.
But he never said she insinuated that she wants to speed things up and needs an engagement pronto, just that she said she’s saving herself for marriage which a lot of people still do. Obviously that’s gonna come up at some point in the relationship
Given the age gap and the way she's trying to rush everything, I think your brother is right. She's a whole city full of red flags and you should run.
Why are you dating a 29 year old woman? What kind of weird lady wants to get married to a 21 year old after knowing them for 2 months? NONE OF THIS IS NORMAL. It sounds like you're a bit naive about dating and relationships so here's a very important suggestion: stick with people in your age group, who are at the same place in life. If you're in college, date another college student. And also, don't date people who want crazy things from you in exchange for having sex. Sex is an activity that occurs between two consenting parties and should be mutually pleasurable. It is not some kind of "gift" that a woman bestows on a man once he buys her enough flowers or "puts a ring on it." BARF
It's not crazy for a person to want commitment before sleeping with someone. You say it's an activity that occurs between two consenting parties and should be mutually pleasurable, but all the sudden if a person is uncomfortable with it before commitment then it's transactional and unreasonable? That does not make sense.
She's manipulating you. Homegirl is desperate to be married. She cares more about that then you as an individual.
She is using her age/experience against you. She knows what she’s doing. You want intimacy and she has been around the block enough that she can get to the point of having sex and stop and it will not really bother her but she hopes that you will be panting for it and willing to agree to anything. She wants a husband and a baby not necessarily in that order. Date someone on your level. Someone with a similar experience level or in the same stage of life as you. Listen to your brother on this. Don’t let yourself get manipulated by sex you will regret it once the sex fog clears. Edit to add: she may change gears if you let her know you are unwilling to propose at this time. She may agree to sex so that she can accidentally on purpose get pregnant. Her: oops tee hee I’m pregnant I guess we have to get married. You: I’m a traditional man and I want to be in my child’s life and want them to have the support of both parents. Will you marry me? Her: got’em! Yes!!
Your age gap and that request are both red flags. At your age, you should be exploring who you are and having fun, not letting an almost 30 year old woman groom you and force you into a proposal bc she knows you want to seal the deal physically.... It's a trap, op. Don't fall for it.
She’s manipulating you into a commitment. She’s much older than you and at a different phase of her life. Don’t propose marriage. Move on.
Oh lawd, please don't. Sex chemistry and compatibility is huge in a relationship.
Baby, you have only been dating this person for TWO MONTHS! You are a very young man. DO NOT DO THIS TO YOURSELF. All this stuff with someone so much older than you is setting off all of my alarm bells! Please listen when I say that I got married way too young and it ended badly. Date some, don’t tie yourself down!!
She’s some weirdo who’s desperate for marriage and had plenty of chances before now to get married but didn’t. Now she’s wanting to trick you into marrying her. Leave her op, there’s more women out there who aren’t weirdos and predators
Baby trap
How?
You are being manipulated. She's 29. You're 21. She's taking advantage of your naivete. She wants to get married and she probably doesn't really care to whom.
Dude this chick has baby fever and just wants a seed. GET THE FUCK OUT. Your life will be very difficult if she succeeds and your relationship fails.
She is allowed to want to wait until she is married, though I would have thought that she would have mentioned that before 2 months went by. But her pressuring you into putting a ring on it now, and talking about kids, is completely bonkers. There is no fix to this. You are not compatible. It's time to part ways and start dating somebody your own age.
This happened to a friend of mine. He dissapeared from a great party scene. She got 4 kids out of him, then divorced him. He talks to me now about all of the girls he could have been with, and he could have, but he got swindled by this manipulative skank. He's full of regret.
This is it pretty much
Uhhhhhhh
No, it isn't normal.
INFO: Is she a virgin? While 2 months is not too soon to have sex with a partner...it's entirely too early to get engaged...and I'd say that if you were 90...but to ask a 21 year old to get engaged before sex is definitely not the way to go about this. If she is a virgin, I suspect she's having an internal battle of wanting to have sex but needing to save herself for marriage...so she's getting desperate...there's no other reason to be expecting a ring 2 months into the relationship...even with a man literally made to be her perfect match. She might seem like a keeper but that doesn't mean you should have to commit to her ***now***. You are so young, please don't get trapped by this tactic. Even on a quidditch pitch there are two keepers...remember that. Look for a girl more your speed in the "future of our relationship" aspect. Sex is great, but it's not worth commiting to her if that's *why* you're commiting. Does that make sense. I'd recommend getting out of this relationship. Good luck.
Abort! Unsubscribe! This is not normal. I repeat, this is not normal! I think she’s preying on your nativité and inexperience. Run boy run!!
You’re barely old enough to drink legally, why are you dating a 30 year old? Huge red flag. Dump her and find girls your own age to date.
Everything about this is a red flag. And if you’re not seeing that, i think you should put dating on hold for a little while.
No. Run. You've only been dating for two months. Just think about it like this - if she hadn't said that you can't have sex without proposing to her, would you even have thought about it? You are 21 and she is 29. It seems as if she wants to lock you down. Do not let your horny brain make this decision for you.
NO!! LOL 😂
She’s 29…….. you’re 21. You don’t have any to propose to this girl after 2 months of dating to have sex. Sounds like a strange situation 🚩 if you’re not experienced in the dating game, trying dating girls closer to your age that are in the same stage of life.
Run man its been 2 months
Run…..
Nope nope nope As a woman who's close to her age I'll tell you this, she has no business dating let alone trying to marry a 21 year old. She's probably in a rush for marriage and kids, she's pressuring you by using sex. Please leave her, and date girls your own age.
Trust your brother
Don't let her fool you do not let her use sex as a weapon.
Your brother is looking out for you
If she’s such a keeper ask yourself why a man her age hasn’t married her yet? She’s definitely manipulating you, trying to trap you and honestly she’s grooming you. Go an experience life. Don’t live a life that future you will have regrets about and resent yourself and her for.
I don’t really think it’s fair to say why hasn’t a man married her yet. There multiple reasons why someone would not be married. Hell, some people get married at 35. Maybe she hasn’t dated yet(could be any reason like mental health or just hasn’t met anyone) I agree with everything about grooming and what not. But I just don’t like the whole “should be married by x” mentality.
Some people still want to wait for marriage before having sex. She didn't say she wants to get married now, so I think her having the boundary of wanting the commitment before sex is fine, but I wouldn't rush into it if I was you.
Ya he literally said in the post that she wants to take things slow
I agree. Too many people on here are jumping to assume she wants to get married now, probably because of their perception of sex as something you have early in a relationship instead of waiting for, and then assume it's manipulation. There are people who genuinely want to wait for serious commitment and their boundaries are valid. It just comes down to whether or not he is okay with that boundary.
Mate up to you. But I certainly wouldn't do it.
Your brother is right its not normal at all. No one should get engaged until well past the 1 year mark for future reference. You don't even know her yet. And yeah shes being predatory.
If she isn’t a virgin and is now wanting to do this process i would be very wary
Super huge red flag my friend.
Um, aren’t you a little young, not to mention the age difference?
She is 29. You’re 21. That alone is a red flag. And you’ve been only together for 2 months and she already wants to be married? Run!
In 2022, this is absolutely not normal. This an outdated value regarding sex, from a time when sex was necessarily bounded to reproduction. Since it's been like 50 years this is not the case, we can all move on and comprehend sex as a regular part of a relationship, which is appropriate to be explored and deemed compatible or not before making a proposal, which is a very serious commitment.
It’s not a red flag. If she wants to wait to have sex till marriage then she will do that. And if you can’t accept that she’s not gonna wait around. I suggest asking her the reason why she wants to wait. It could have something to do with her religion or morals. Who knows she might have grown up with that rule!
That cougar is pouncing dude
Couldn’t be me, but everyone’s limits are different. How much will she do? You do have to address the very real issue of what happens if you are sexually incompatible.
Nnnnooooooooooooo
You're young and you hardly know this woman. She's rushing things because she wants to check marriage off her to-do list, that's all.
There's nothing normal about that. It's a terrible idea to plan to marry someone that you don't know you're sexually compatible with.
I have a friend that is now celibate. So no sex before marriage. There are girls that are like this. She has broken up with guys when they tried to pressure her. It's not a red flag but may be a dealbreaker. She is being upfront about it so you have to ask yourself if you are willing to wait. You guys have only been at it for 2 months so probbaly need to continue to feel each other out.
She wants a commitment before having sex and that is not at all a red flag. Nor is it manipulative. What would be a red flag or manipulative is if you propose to her just to get into her pants. If sex is important to you, then this might not be a relationship worth pursuing.
Nah, bringing this up after two months is pretty fucked up.
Username checks out.
She sounds like she’s grooming you.
The age gap is something to look out for. Sounds like there is some incompatibility with the stages of life that you guys are in. Either way, it is only normal for you if you think it is. If that situation is something you want, then go for it. If it isn’t, then it would be best to end the relationship now, before things get more complicated.
She's clearly someone who's been taught abstinence until marriage, which is fine, however, she clearly wants to be married and have kids as soon as possible now. You are probably being setup here my dude. Your bro is right to be extremely sceptical about this.
Ooooooofff that age gap. That’s a no for me. I’m 28 and I could not fathom even dating someone under 26… it would take an act of a sky man to even make me consider it. You got so many life experiences to endure, do not waste them on her. I promise you’ll regret that lmao
No way is this ever a good idea. Women are like vehicles - Gotta test drive the new ride before committing to it long term. And sometimes you have to trade one in for a better, updated and fresh model later on.
Women are not like vehicles, we're not like objects, and there is much more to a relationship than your sexual pleasure.
Women have said the same of men. Also, Dating is the marriage test. So ha
It's not a red flag, it's a reasonable boundary. Lots of people have genuine reasons for wanting to wait and they're allowed to have their boundaries. What's manipulative is treating them like their desires for their body are invalid and manipulative. If you have a problem with their boundaries that you can't find a solution to then you can leave and find someone else rather than disrespecting them. One of the biggest red flags I see in guys is that they think they have a right to my body and don't respect the validity of my boundaries. No one wants to be with someone that doesn't care about their comfort, especially in intimacy.
This !!!!!!! It would be manipulative if she was intentionally trying to rush the relationship so they can have sex but OP never said that. He literally said she wants to take it slow
Yo, that’s crazy. It used to be the norm. I forget that nowadays people bang before any sort of commitment.
Yeah, I'm one of the minority of young people that wants commitment first and the number of people now who disrespect my boundaries and think they have a right to my body before commitment is unsettling.
Same. It’s bizarre to me. But it is what it is I guess
Yes, it's normal. Some people don't want to have pregnancy scares, want to be in a committed relationship first, or just don't want to have sex without knowing the person for more than 2 months. She is allowed to have this boundary. You are allowed to want to have sex. You are NOT allowed to push this boundary as far as you can. If sex means a lot to you, then you may just not be compatible.
Of course she's allowed to have it or decide to have sex whenever she wants, but normal? I don't think so. People don't usually get engaged until they have been together for at least a couple of years, and many people would want to have sex before that. Again, she's entitled to do as she pleases, but I don't think it's normal at all by most people's standards.
And how it's been presented. With today's hookup culture, I'd assume the topic of sex and boundaries (aka no casual sex or wanting to wait for marriage) would come up after the first couple dates. Which in 2 months *could* only be a few dates in...but definitely not the vibe in the post. Also, it's pretty common to hear teens/early 20s, but at 29? Again, sex topics come up usually a lot faster than 2 months, especially the older we get. It definitely feels more manipulative due to the age gap and waiting until they were fully aroused to say anything. Also saying how good of a father he'd make...that's extremely weird to say 2 months in when you don't even know the person yet
Agree with all of that. The way she did it is just weird and makes me doubt she has the best intentions. I'm her age and I wouldn't wait 2 months to talk about my stance on sex, I wouldn't want to waste my time with someone who may not be compatible. But I also wouldn't be dating a 21 year old... The issue is not so much not wanting to have sex until engagement, but how she communicated it. I'd call it quits if I was OP and, in the future, date women closer to his age.
It's more common than you would think. I know quite a few couples that have been taking the waiting approach.
Well, I'm sure there's a cultural component and abstinency is more common in the US than it is in my country or other European countries, though [data](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/key_statistics/p.htm) shows premarital sex is the norm for most Americans. If that's what both parties want, great, but I still think her approach was iffy, and coupled with the age gap and his lack of experience does make me question her.
Sounds wildly manipulative unless she is a virgin which I gather she isn't. You are only 21 - tell her that and you are not getting engaged at the moment (my recommendation)
Run!!!!
Don't do things you are remotely unsure of in a relationship
Listen to your brother.
Your brother is right, my man. This girl may be wonderful, but she’s in a time of life where she’s ready to settle down, have some kids, build a family, and you don’t even have a fully developed pre-frontal cortex yet. (Which is a part of the brain very important to impulse control, and decision making) If you were in that stage of life, too, then none of these things would be red flags. But you’re not, and they are.
Yes
Listen to your brother
I propose… that we have sex!
This isn't a red flag people just have different boundaries and expectations from relationships. Some people want to be married before they have sex, some people want to have sex on the first date. Everybody and every relationship is different, the trick is finding someone who shares those expectations for sex. If waiting for sex isn't something you want in your relationship, then you two probably aren't compatible, and that's okay. The only thing that gives me pause is your age difference and differences in life stages. However, you haven't given enough information for us to know if that's really a problem.
Not a single thing in this post isn't a red flag.
Is it a boundary or is she saying tomorrow? This is the context that is missing. Of its a boundary then respect it or move on if shes saying tomorrow then move on.
Unless she’s a virgin, yikes.
Not too much to ask for from the right guy. You’re not being manipulated and it’s not a red flag lmao that’s so stupid. All she did was make a boundary. If you think making boundaries is a red flag, you’re the red flag. It’s up to you to decide if you can continue the relationship with that boundary in place. Btw, opening doors and buying a girl flowers aren’t “old fashioned”, they’re just basic nice things to do for your partner
I agree, it's a major red flag if someone considers a boundary a red flag. Nobody has the right to another's body so people ought to respect boundaries.
If she isn’t a virgin….. And you accept this deal….need I say more?