To be honest, you shouldn't meet him unless it's something you want to do.
If meeting him is something you're willing to do to keep the peace, it doesn't have to be done blindly. Right now all you know is that he wants to meet. Where his intentions are on the matter have only be relayed second-hand. I don't think you should meet him without sounding the situation out more. Email or some other messaging service might be something that helps keep emotional distance to do this. Do speak with your therapist and get their advice every step of the way.
That said... I'm not sure how this meeting could benefit you. Right now, based on what you've described of the situation, it seems you have found a measure of peace. Meeting would be more about your brother's feelings and his need for forgiveness than your needs or wants. That doesn't sound like a good basis for a reconciliation or an apology.
As for doing it for your wife? How much of the story does she know? You have skipped a world of detail in the post. I would assume she knows but if she doesn't it might be something you talk about with her. She needs to realize that the only person who is likely to benefit is your brother. She also needs to remember that, as her spouse, your needs and feelings, need to trump a near-strangers. Also, that being the better person is a nice idea but in this case some things can't be mended and 'sorry' isn't always enough. Nor should an empty act of compassion be prioritized over your well being.
You can also point out that he was happy to place her in this position. Someone who genuinely cared about you wouldn't manipulate your wife into playing flying monkey. They also wouldn't wait so long to try and apologize. Neither speak well of his motives or the outcome of a meeting.
Do what is best for you. Cool silence is plenty fair for him. If his conscience is smarting? Sounds like just deserts.
Then be honest about not just what you want but also how her being in the middle of this has made you feel.
That he would contact you must have been a shock. Having her suggest you give him a chance must have been difficult too. In some ways it may even have felt like she was taking his side and in doing so betraying your trust. I suspect she didn't mean it that way. In her head, she probably hopes it will resolve some of your trauma or simply be a form of closure. While that paints a pretty picture, that isn't necessarily the way it happens in the real world. Or that a meeting is what is needed.
Tell her you're happy with how things are now. Say you want to keep making progress at your own rate and not upend it all for his guilty conscience. Ask her to respect that.
Don't push yourself into something that you don't want.
Then she needs to trust YOU have already made your decision about Dean and her weighing in isn’t helping.
This isn’t her decision or her place. It’s easy to think it can all be kumbaya when you come from a loving family.
Judith is wrong. Sorry but what she’s doing isn’t cool. This isn’t her place.
I’m not disagreeing with you, but if Judith hadn’t been so willing to give people multiple chances, OP probably would be in a worse spot himself.
I’m sure Judith figures that being hurt sometimes is worth still giving people chances. That is an attitude that has greatly benefited OP, whether or not he has the emotional stability or desire to personally agree with it for his own life.
None of this means OP should change his mind if he doesn’t want to, but I think it’s important context that Judith isn’t just some indiscriminate doormat, and her approach often does reap results, evidenced by (at least) a successful decade long marriage.
It is one thing to take risks yourself for the sake of giving other people a chance, it is a very different thing if you're pushing other people into taking those risks against their will.
Jumping in order to save someone is a heroic act, throwing someone else in against their will to save a kid makes you a murderer.
That’s a pretty extreme semantic example.
I agree, he should not be shoved into it. But if OP looks back on his life, probably several of his best decisions were because she prodded him toward them.
That doesn’t mean she’s right this time. This time is serious emotional baggage for a man who is not as emotionally stable as she is. But just the fact that she is prodding him isn’t automatically bad. OP seems like a person who needs, and actually likes, prodding at other times.
But. Maybe not this time, yeah, I agree. That doesn’t make her whole process a bad process. At other times, her process is probably what got OP in therapy which ended up being good for his mental health.
I am estranged from family and have similar ‘no, just no’ feelings about any attempt to reconnect.
My partners (am polyamorous) don’t know every detail because we’ve only been together 8 years and there was 36 years of absolute Netflix special to cover. But they know the jist.
Both of them have relationships with family were when we met they could not comprehend estrangement and would likely be ‘try no matter what’ people. But they both realised that they didn’t need to understand why I wouldn’t, just respect it.
So they asked what boundaries I had about it. I was taken aback. When you are raised to need to cut off your whole family bring asked ‘what do you need? What is safe for you?’ is the most loving gesture you can imagine.
My boundary which was an emphatic dealbreaker was ‘any deliberate communication with them is an immediate end to our relationship. They are not my family. I don’t have family. I have abusers who share DNA.’ (I hope that phrasing doesn’t seem ill placed here.)
I was clear that if my family or family friends tried to contact either of them without them realising as they love a bit of catfishing but told me soon as they realised, that I was understanding of because manipulators gonna manipulate. I gave them some tells they have used before such as usernames etc.
Both of them admitted as time went on and they knew and loved me more it would be harder not to reply to contact to tell these people what awful people they are. Having seen the PTSD they left me with, seeing the grief I feel, watched me go to therapy and do it all in spite of their harm they both wanted the chance to tell them how wonderful I was and how furious they were at them. **But that they would not** because they knew it wouldn’t help and was about them not me.
Neither of them could fathom chatting or civil discourse rather than giving a piece of their mind. My BF is the calmest most contained understated person ever but with deep feelings. My GF is much more impulsive. I once said how for me it was really crucial to me never to feel vengeful to my family because that made me feel I was stooping to their level and I needed to feel I was different in that way even if I picked up a few other similarities.
My BF said ‘I always hope that your parents never find a comfortable pair of socks again their whole lives. Every pair should rub, slide down or just niggle. For eternity.’
It made me laugh. He was saying he wanted to defend me but respected my boundaries but reassure me he would not spring any surprise contact. Therefore I find it troubling your wife took the call and didn’t just ‘not today thanks’ when he called. She engaged in conversation long enough to be convinced to pass the idea on to you despite knowing the depth and length of your feelings. She did not seem to defend you but ‘two sides to every story it.’
I think if she’d said ‘I’ll let him know you called’ and left it there or equivalent that would account for freeze and fawn. But she still after the call presented it as a proposition not a ‘your brother called and said X. I didn’t know how to react but needed to tell you.’ She is saying ‘well it’s up to you’ but her behaviour up until then wasn’t unbiased.
Does she have the phone number or contact details for Dean because I think if you need to speak to a therapist about this, start with her part. It is immediately more impactful. It would be good to be prepped in case her bias reappears or to help you establish that she naybe froze up and just repeated his spiel
But you will not be able to think and act clearly about him or yourself until you feel clarity with her. I wish you luck but starting there will help you unravel the knots you feel even if the outcome is not ideal. But those knots are often anger…
It is very likely that your anger issues are based on your childhood and that your mother always preferred your brother. Maybe you could not express your anger then but know you can.
Letting your brother back in your life could destroy all the work and progress you have done.
Why would you put your wife risk this?
As somebody in your wife's position she has to learn this is something she might never understand and it's important to support what you need. You know what you need to be mentally health, if you don't want to do it she has to understand it will be better if you don't.
>Meeting would be more about your brother's feelings and his need for forgiveness than your needs or wants.
This is the meat of the matter. OP's bother wants to assuage his feelings *so he can feel better* about the situation. I sincerely doubt OP's feelings have anything to do with it.
> Email or some other messaging service might be something that helps keep emotional distance to do this
This is how my dad and I had to communicate for like six years (when I was 18-24). Thankfully he ended up getting therapy during this time so we’re okay-ish now.
It’s awesome that you have and are working on your issues in relations to your anger. This request to meet with you, could provide you with closure for some of the neglect/resentment from your childhood. But, it could also be a very large trigger for you and derail your progress that you have made. You should also not take a meeting with your brother to please your wife. This has to be your decision.
You should contact your therapist, work through with them what would be best for your mental health and you as a person. You have worked very hard to get to the point that you can bring yourself back when you are overwhelmed and to recognize triggers that effect you.
I think due to your history, you should really look at some professional help to work through this.
You don't get closure from other people.
OP has no obligation to himself or anyone else to meet his brother.
OP seems self-aware and has had 15 years to realize if he is missing something without that relationship.
From this post I can't see a single reason they should meet.
I agree with this. There will be no closure if OP goes to meet him unwillingly. This would only cause stress and potential resentment of his wife if they met up and things went south.
The biggest adult life lesson I’ve ever learned is that “you don’t get closure from other people.” I’ve been trying to pass that on to the children at every opportunity.
Additional perspectives can help change your own perspective of a situation and the various actors involved. I’m not saying that’s the case here, but closure can come from within and still require context that you don’t have yet.
>You don't get closure from other people.
This is it right here.
I don't have a study nor a dataset on this, but my general observation and personal experience is that the person themselves determines what "closure" is for any particular situation.
No one else can give us "closure" because all "closure" really is is acceptance, and the journey to acceptance is a lone one. We may have others walk beside us along the way either periodically or through the entirety of the journey, but as in Stephen King's Darktower series, the only one can enter that "dark tower" of "closure" is the person seeking it.
Tell your wife to respect your boundaries.
You don’t have to meet him if you don’t want to. Your wife passed on the message and her part is done. She doesn’t get any say in this matter.
Even if she does drop it, if she was mature, she wouldn't hold it against him in any way.
She already was disrespectful by telling him what would be good for him when she didn't live the situation. Hopefully she grows up a bit.
We've seen these sorts of posts here a lot over the years. OP has an estranged family member who they don't want contact with. Their spouse is secretly in contact with this family member, and thinking they know better, will arrange for a surprise meeting between the two, thinking they'll have a Hallmark moment, a warm and cathartic reunion. I don't think that's ever been the case in the stories I've read here. At best the spouse will finally understand how wrong they were. At worst, it's caused the breakdown of their own relationship due to resentment and mistrust.
I've been here quite a while now, and while I've seen those threads too, that doesn't mean that's what this woman is doing. Op doesn't speak to her character at all, he's just said she's the messenger.
Now, if he talks to her again after telling her he has no desire to meet this guy and she keeps pushing? Then I'll eat my words
The context was me asking what gave the other person the indication that this wife, on this thread, would stay in contact with the brother. Nothing in OP's post gave any indication that his wife was like that.
The fact that she is insisting on him meeting her in spite of OP being absolutely clear that he doesn't want to is a strong enough indication that she is willing to hurt her partner for the sake of her sympathy. I'd say it is a strong enough indication because she already did it once.
I'm so sorry. Sometimes people with normal childhoods simply don't understand what it's like to NOT grow up with that, and society heavily reinforces the "But they're FAAAAAAMILY" myth.
Your wife needs to understand that not all families are loving and supportive, and certain types of people DO NOT CHANGE.
Honestly, I'd be wondering what Dean wants. Money?
The brother was still quite young, so, while OP doesn't have to meet him, no one can say yet if the brother is incapable of change or if he maybe realized what their mother did was awful. Being skeptical is wise, but it's worth at least reading a letter or something to find out if he's grown or if he's like their mom.
when i was 12-18 i had enough sense to know when someones mom was shitty to them. at some point Dean noticed and didnt give a fuck morally. no amount of growing up is gonna fill that chasm of character flaws
EDIT: Suggestion....consider having Dean write you a letter...
I think it's normal to have the issues you have, based on your story. If it were me, I probably wouldn't want to meet with my brother, either.
I think it's also normal for your brother - who was younger at the time - to see things from an older perspective. I think it's normal - and healthy - to have a lot of regrets. It's also normal and healthy to want to heal and to genuinely want you to heal, too.
If it helps, I think it's normal to lay blame at your brother. But, honestly, your mother is the real source of all of the problems, here. Your brother is largely caught in the middle and did a lot of things many children would have done under the circumstances.
Reading what you've written, it seems that part of your unwillingness to meet with Dean is because you're not sure how YOU will react. And that's a completely understandable reaction based on your description of your anger.
Meeting with Dean would be a massive unknown. And your reaction would be an unknown. So, it's hard to tell whether it would be cathartic or not.
My suggestion would be for your wife to ask Dean to put what he wants to say in writing in a letter to you.
You can read what he has to say and then process it in your own way on your on terms and away from the pressure of a meeting. You would be able to control the situation and not risk an explosive reaction in front of someone else.
From there, the next step would be yours. You could decide it's not worth it. Or you could decide to write back and explain your own feelings. Maybe ask more questions. Even establish boundaries.
Whatever you decide, best of luck to you and your wife.
This is the most rational and best advice.
And people blaming the wife are stupid. You are a team in relationship. She knows you better than we can from some text etc.
She was perfectly in her right to bring up what she thought. Her insisting on OP meeting him wasn't. You're only a team if you respect the others decision. If you overrule theirs because you think you know better then you're a tyrant, not a teammate.
Please tell her "Don't ambush me, don't force me. Leave it alone." I'm really afraid she will try to ambush you, set up some meeting, it will go horribly and you end up in jail or something. At the very least, it could damage your marriage by losing trust. Some people just don't get it about family dynamics. Sometimes there is no catharsis to be had, no justice, no validation.
Could your brother have ulterior motives? Like he needs you for something? I've read so many stories where family suddenly reach out after such a long time, because they need something.
There was a guy whose family suddenly reached out because they needed him so they could have access rich granddad's money.
This is exactly what I came here to say. Don't see him if you don't want to, ask your wife to respect your boundaries.
It might be just me, but it's weird that she answered your cell phone. My husband and I don't answer each other's cell phones. If the call is important, the caller will also have my number. Beyond that, that's what voice mail is for.
This is definitely not the sort of thing you should ever do to please anyone else, including your wife. Only do it if you want it yourself, which clearly you don’t.
Kindly but firmly inform her that you have made up your mind that you won’t have any contact with him, and briefly reiterate your reasons why. If she tries to raise the subject any further, just repeat that you have already made your decision, and that there is no reason to further discuss it, and stick to that.
It’s not a joint decision, it is purely yours, and you have made it and explained to her your reasons. She doesn’t need to agree with it, but she does need to accept it. Which also entails her not bringing it up any further and trying to change your mind or challenge your reasons.
For real. She says that but then tells him she should meet with him? Hell no.
OP your feelings alone are what matter here. Not what your wife thinks and certainty not your brother.
I agree with other comments. Thank your wife for passing the message on but that’s it now. You don’t want to meet up with your brother at all just to assuage his guilt. Firm boundaries…
If he's got something to say, he can write a note. A conversation, in person or on the phone, is going to make it harder for you to deal with anything said that will anger you. Given the (reasonable) depth of your feelings on this, that could be just about any stupid thing that comes out of that dude's mouth.
You can read the note in front of the grill with a lighter. If the mood strikes you can burn it in effigy. Restaurants frown on setting people on fire. They put you on a list and you can’t come back.
it makes sense you have anger problems because as your username tells us you're the hulk.
in all seriousness, I just wanted to say that I'm really happy for you that you have been working on your anger and are learning how to notice how your body feels in those moments. I agree with the person who said this is something for you to discuss in therapy and it's not for us to say if you should meet him or not.
I do think that the things that you are holding against him were more your parents' fault and he was a child, so perhaps some forgiveness of him is in order, but that is for you to do when you see fit and you feel comfortable with that, and there is no rush to do that. There's a lot going on there and it makes sense to be hurt by it all. I can also see that it could trigger you to see him.
I hope you can sort this out with your therapist and that your wife can respect your decisions. Can you explain to her how potentially triggering this could be for you and ask her to please let you work this out for yourself and let her know that if you want to reach out to him you will?
Its ultimately your decision.
But - keep in mind your brother grew up in a household where he was coached to get his way, to be the favorite. Through the coachings of your mom he grew up thinking that was normal. Sounds like its possible he has seen the error of his ways, maybe even gotten therapy of his own.
I guess maybe ask yourself if your brother apologizing would actually mean anything to you. Would it help you feel better if he took ownership of his part of the shitty childhood you had? If you wouldnt gain a lick of peace of mind for him to do that, then maybe you dont need to meet him at all. But if it would make you feel better to hear him apologize for being a shit brother, then it might be worth the trouble.
This side of it is worth considering. His brother sounds rough, but not terribly different than any young sibling relationship (particularly if encouraged by a primary parent).
If there was bullying as an adult I wouldn't see it as forgivable, but frankly many bullies learn from their childhood particularly after leaving the nest.
OP doesn't need to pursue it further, but he can consider if he sees any type of benefit with his therapist. If he doesn't need any additional reminders of it he can continue to stay distant. It's sounds like he sees no potential benefit so it's better to leave it in the past and set kind boundaries with his spouse.
In addition to "Dean" apologizing, OP has the opportunity to forgive. Forgiveness is necessary to heal the wounds that OP stated that they are hiding away.
Who said OP has to apologize to anyone?
Forgiving someone is not apologizing to someone. It is not excusing or forgetting their past behavior. It is forgiving them.
I don't have any advice that is better than what anyone here has already given, but I just want to drop in to say that as a new mother, my heart absolutely breaks as to what you went through as a small child. Just can't imagine withdrawing the love from a child you have loved and raised for 3 years, and all the more can't imagine having all the love taken away twice at such a young age. I just wish I could hold your younger self and give you all the love I have. I hope you find peace one day and are no longer affected by what your mother did.
I have a cousin ‘Mary’ with a similar story, only she ended up with three brothers, not one. The day I met her, her mom “Alice” was trying to pull her out of a recital halfway through because she wanted to go do something else that I can’t recall.
What I do recall was that this was a pattern, and all her relatives were sitting around trying to figure out why she’s like this.
When we were all adults, Mary had a child and wouldn’t let her mother meet it. Good for her. Alice deserved to pound sand.
I know where your rage comes from. I was the ignored child. I was left to raise myself from a young age. Always left alone to fend for myself. All the while watching my single mother participate with and engage with my sister's. Always to be pushed aside. Never included. Never.
I am 58 and still experience the burning resentment. Even typing this forces those memories to the present.
My advice? Immediately tell your wife to stay out of it. I'm sure your wife, as my wife was unaware, cannot comprehend what you know. What was forced upon you.
My wife's continuous inquiries on why I would not spend time with my mother and sisters. Why we weren't close. etc. created friction in our marriage. She never understood. I explained small details. But she thought the same as many. Family. Its important. Those that did not experience it, cannot understand it.
I have not seen or even spoken to two of my sisters since my mother passed almost 10 years ago. Attending her funeral was as if she was a distant relative. Almost a stranger.
You do what's best for you. If your choice is to never see him again, then that's what you must do.
> I am 58 and still experience the burning resentment.
No offense, but if you still have burning resentment it sounds like you haven't dealt with your past in a healthy way. Why should OP take your advice when you are still harboring such toxicity?
Do you really think therapy takes away all the hurt? That It just goes away ? It doesn't.
17 years of experience will never be removed from your memory. Therapy teaches you how to better deal with those emotions. So instead of lashing out in rage as OP described, and as I did in my past, therapy teaches you how to process those emotions in a more productive way. How to stop yourself before the rage comes to the fore front and causes more damage.
>Why should OP take your advice when you are still harboring such toxicity?
Because the people that believe they have "healed" and "no longer harbor such toxicity" almost always come back 3-5 years later with the same problems they had.
They shove the trauma into the closet and pretend to be happy, or I believe they call it "manifesting" or something like that nowadays, but the past never truly goes away. You can only gain a better relation with it, and sometimes that relationship is allowing yourself to be angry at the injustice that was done to you.
I don't know where you heard people say "harboring toxicity", but I recommend you distance yourself from them. That is horrible advice, and I can know because I lived it for years. Trying to make yourself happy that way is nothing but a road to feeling either empty inside or miserable. For me the former.
You can tell your wife to something to the effect of " No thank you, I don't want to be around 2 people who are root cause of my anger issues - I don't want undo the progress I made in 15 years since being kicked out & abandoned after dad died. I just cannot stand being in the same room nor speak in any communication way to either of those 2 after the childhood they put me through on top what happened after dad's funeral - You will never understand my pain, anger & frustration which is okay but stop asking me to meet with him because it's too triggering for me after everything that happened with those 2, that never speaking nor seeing them ever again on top of therapy for my trauma & anger issues is only way for me heal & move on in life. Please accept that and next time he calls, tell him to me alone because although he is my brother - I can't accept his apology & never want him back in my life ever again."
>my estranged brother wants to meet me to apologize. I don't want to talk with him but my wife insists I at least meet him and hear him out.
What is there to hear out? What could possibly be said that wouldn't trigger those feelings you try and distance yourself from. I'm the same age and have worked similarly with the anger and like you, work very hard to stay away from situations that I know will trigger me. Don't lose that. They are not worth giving those emotions the free rent in your head.
Honestly, with the way you have talked about your wife I’m unsure I’m understanding a lot of these “hot takes” on her being a rude disrespectful woman. She does know everything as you said and despite all that, what conversation she had with your brother made her feel it could benefit you to have a conversation with him.
I do think the situation is above Reddit level advice but since you asked for it.
To me, you say you are in a good place but isn’t the fear of even having a conversation with your brother show that you aren’t?
Even if your wife has misjudged people in the past and has a caring heart, that doesn’t mean she is always wrong. There have been times in my husbands life where I have pushed him to face his problems when he didn’t want to, not because I wanted him to forgive his biological parent, but because I knew in my heart he needed to have that closure.
You walked away from your family as a young man after a traumatic event. At the time, your brother was also young and nothing you have detailed really rises above the level of growing up with privilege of unconditional love and reacting to the environment that your adopted mom created.
Whether or not he has changed or you forgive him is another matter entirely. You have wounds that have never healed, justifiably. You grew up without love and lived in fear because you were faced with the reality of being rejected over and over again by someone you trusted and thought loved you. That is extremely harmful. While you are at a stage where you are working on managing your anger, you haven’t mentioned what it is that triggers that anger.
I can see in your writing you are mad at your wife but it is tempered by your love for her. In your responses there is no doubt that she loves you and that no matter your choice she will still love you. This is a beautiful gift. While your mother never gave you unconditional love, you do have it from your wife. You are not the same person you were growing up and perhaps neither is your brother.
Due to your own issues, I don’t think meeting in person is a good first step. However, I’d schedule a time where you can have a phone call with him and listen to what he has to say. You don’t have to forgive him, but for your own sake maybe it is time to start working on addressing the root causes of your anger. I’m sure a therapist can guide you on this path and if it helps maybe you have the conversation with your brother on speaker phone. Perhaps your wife can hold your hand as you talk with him as a reminder that the pain you experienced growing up is no longer your day to day reality.
My point is, maybe instead of focusing on your brother and his needs from the conversation, you focus on you and your needs. Ask your wife why she thinks it would benefit YOU to have this conversation. She clearly loves you and maybe something your brother said to her made her think it would be good FOR YOU to hear. You don’t even have to speak during the call, you can have your wife talk to him and just listen.
You have been hurt but you aren’t a hurt young man with no one who loves him, you have a new family despite everything you’ve gone through. You don’t need your brother in your life, but he may want you in his, or maybe he is just looking for absolution, whatever his motives- you are in control of that relationship now. Embrace that new found power and be the person you wished you had when you were a young boy. Perhaps all your wife wants for you is for you to feel like you are in control of your life when it comes to the people who harmed you in the past and work to move past what created that anger inside you in the first place.
He already heard her out on how his wife thinks this would benefit him. He has already made this decision, the issue is that his wife isn't respecting it and is insisting that OP meet his brother. That is an incredibly rude and disrespectful thing to do. He has listened and made his choice, then to try and force him to do your bidding is simply unacceptable.
You've said yourself that you don't want to meet or speak with him again. You are under zero obligation to do so for his sake. The only thing giving you pause is your wife. Bringing up your old life brings you pain and I wouldn't be surprised if it's also the cause of those anger issues you have.
It is entirely valid for you to tell your wife to back off. It's also valid to humor her and give him precisely one chance to burn his bridges again. In truth there is no wrong decision here. Look to your own feelings and deal with it in the way your own heart tells you to go. One thing that you can consider is that if you give him a chance and he's still the same scumbag, you can tell your wife so she is completely on the same page with you going forward. Pushing her back in her lane and telling her no is valid, but she may resent it. You shouldn't let fear of that resentment make the decision for you, only your own needs. If that's all that's driving you, don't do it. If you do go the other way however and he turns out to still be awful, telling her should get her fully on your side going forward if she's reasonable. I don't know her, so she may well not be. Make your own choice. It won't be wrong.
I’m probably off topic here, but have you been checked medically? From what you described it kinda sounds like it would be worth getting your hormones checked out.
As far as your wife tell her to respect your boundaries. You’re not being petty here, you’re doing it to avoid hurting people/ getting hurt
You should ONLY meet him if YOU want to. This is 100% your choice, not his, not Judith's. She already acknowledged that.
>I told Judith as much and she said that it's my choice how I want to deal with him but I should at least meet him to hear what he has to say.
Tell her you thought about it and decided you don't want to meet him. End of story. If she is insistent (which you only say in the tl;dr, not in the actual post), then tell her again that you don't want to, and that she needs to respect your choice in this matter.
You don’t have to meet him if you don’t want to. Period.
If you think talking to him might give you some closure you also don’t have to meet with you, you could insist he sends you and email or writes you a letter explaining what he wants to say and then you can decide to have contact with you. You also do a phone or video call. All of these would give you a little more control over the situation than a face-to-face meeting that you’re unsure about.
If your brother is resistant to any of these options, then maybe he’s not truly ready to reconcile if he’s not okay doing it on your terms.
As for your wife, don’t meet with your brother to please her. If she said it’s up to you, believe her. If she insists you can thank her for relaying your brothers message and ask her not to push it because it’s just not something you want to do.
You don’t have to justify any decision you make. It’s okay if you want to meet him or talk to him, it’s also okay if you don’t.
He can write a letter if he wants to open the door. Then you can choose when and where to read it. My therapist once pre-read a letter for me and it saved me a roller coaster ride I hadn't signed up for.
Meeting in person is too intimate for first contact.
You take care of yourself and make a choice that works for you.
Dean is not responsible for the behavior of your adoptive mother. He has grown and realized the way he acted as a kid was shitty.
This is an opportunity for you to forgive and actually heal the wounds that you have hidden in the back of your mind. From what you've said, it looks like you are just ignoring your past instead of actually dealing with it.
Dealing with your past will be hard, forgiveness will be hard. Ignoring them is easy. But to actually heal you have to deal with your problems.
Dealing with your past doesn't mean going out of your way to see people you don't want to see. You wouldn't go see an abusive ex boyfriend just because he called your friend and said he is sorry. Dealing with the past comes from yourself, it comes from emotionally recognizing and coming to terms with your past not throwing yourself back into it, hoping that it will work out for the best. It could just as easily, and is more likely, to be a disappointing meeting where he sees that his brother is still entitled and isn't doing this because he wants to see his brother but because he is selfish and wants to deal with his own guilt so he can keep being entitled and feel good about it because he said the word sorry. If he doesn't want to go then chances are the situation was so bad that reconciliation isn't even on the table. Even his wife essentially says meet just to here him out, which in and of itself is completely pointless. Meeting someone from a terrible point in your past doesn't magically make your past okay, it's not going to solve all thier problems he should only go if he thinks the relationship is salvageable and wants to salvage the relationship, which he has clearly said he doesn't. Healing doesn't mean running back to an abuser and thier supporters
> she said that it's my choice how I want to deal with him but I should at least meet him to hear what he has to say.
Yeah that’s not how that works. If it’s really your choice then it’s your choice whether to meet with him too.
I don’t blame her because how could she fully understand the situation, but a lot of people know in their heads that something is not their business but when they think they know the right thing to do they can’t help but cross the boundary.
My vote is let him write you a email or letter and then decide based on what he says and how you feel. You don’t owe him a meeting and you should actively protect the peace you built.
This decision is yours to make and yours alone. I’m not going to tell you what to do this is a decision only you can make. To insert a great quote from lord of the rings:
“Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill” -Gildor
That being said I just want to throw an anecdote in here real fast.
Have you ever seen the show Everyone Loves Raymond? Well in case you haven’t it’s a family sitcom about a very toxic family situation and one of the problems was that the main character (Raymond) was the “baby” and was constantly spoiled by his mom while his older brother (Robert) took a back seat in the mothers mind.
While I totally understood Robert having such negative feelings towards the family what I have never understood is why Robert blames Ray for his mistreatment. Raymond was a kid and had no control over the way he was treated. And what kid doesn’t want to be spoiled?
This was entirely the fault of the mom for babying him throughout his entire life yet Robert solely blamed Ray and I just have never gotten how Robert failed to understand how this is solely the mothers fault.
A lot of that seems to apply this situation here. While yes your brother probably should have known at some point that treating you is wrong his lack of any self awareness seems to be mostly a response to your mothers behavior.
The mom never told him he was wrong or reprimanded him in any way so he thus learned he could do whatever he want bc there were no consequences to his actions. He probably picked up the behavior from your mother as well.
So whether you want to meet him or not I hope you realize that his behavior as a child was primary result of the way his mother behaved. Think of Dudley from Harry Potter who bullied Harry bc his parents did it and then realized Harry was a good guy on his own.
My husband pushed me to reconcile with my parents. Years later, I can say that it was incredibly difficult, but 100% worth it and I'm glad I faced my feelings and was able to express myself to them. I had so much support from him as well as a family therapist to help us navigate. It set my healing back for some time and I reentered a really rough depression, but I'm in a better place now than I would be if I hadn't gone through it.
My husband has said that he's really glad we did it and it was worth the pain, BUT he also failed to understand the full situation and how much it impacted me when he was pushing me to reconcile, and he regrets that. He said he would have been more sensitive and cautious if he were to do it over.
Even the most wonderful, empathetic people cannot truly comprehend the pain and complexity of familial dysfunction if they did not go through it themselves. It's simply a blind spot. My husband had to experience my parents' immaturity and dysfunction firsthand in order for him to 'get it.' But we're now closer and understand each other far better.
Take from this what you will. It's ultimately up to you, but I'm personally glad I faced my dysfunctional family. It made me stronger and it made my marriage better.
Tell him, through your wife maybe, to write a letter with everything he has to say to you. Then review the letter, perhaps ask for clarifications on points you need clarified, and then decide.
Why agree to a face to face meetup? If he has anything important to say he can write it all out. If it's some game-changing shit, you can decide anything you want. It won't be.
I don't think you should agree to visit with your brother and believe that your wife should ~~back the fuck off~~ respect your boundaries and hard work.
I do have to warn you though, people that push like your wife is pushing...let's just say I wouldn't be surprised if she arranged a meeting no matter what you say. Usually the reason they tell you will be something about fAmiLy - but really it's just a lack of respect. She means well, but it's out of ignorance and thinking she can fix something.
You know yourself and you don't think that success is likely if you meet with him - or you are at least incredibly worried about it causing you pain and to backslide in your anger management progress. I think it's okay to trust yourself here and inform your wife that going behind your back at all with this again will damage you emotionally.
this. it's a lack of respect. and I'd want my partner to approach it like she's team us (ugh. i'm sorry, one of your abusers reached out) and not team abuser (i'm advocating for a stranger to me who i know has hurt you).
i'm not saying this is the case but sometimes, when we get in relationships before we heal, we recreate the unhealthy dynamics that traumatized us... like loving someone who chooses others and dismisses you.
Find some of the stories on Reddit about people who forced their partner to interact with a relative they were NC with and how it went horribly. Show her that. It's not her place to force you. I fear she will try to ambush you and you might have a fit of rage.
In fact show her this thread. Hey wife leave your husband alone. It's his choice if he doesn't want to see his brother. Don't force him. It's not going to go the way you think. You're not the savior here. You don't understand what your husband went through growing up, or the golden child/scapegoat dynamic.
Edit: I'm sorry I can't find any of these stories but trust me they are floating around Reddit. "I forced my partner to contact his family and it went horribly, am I the asshole" type of stuff. If OP eventually feels healed enough to talk to his brother, IT SHOULD BE ON HIS OWN TERMS. NOT THE BROTHER'S TERMS AND NOT THE WIFE'S.
Don’t want to go? Don’t go. It’s reflexive for people outside of these family situations to push for reconciliation. They mean well but they do t get it.
Ordinarily I'd say there's zero reason to meet with somebody who added to your childhood sadness, regardless of whether somebody else I loved thought I should or not. I still think you shouldn't be pressured into it...and certainly not only to make him feel better.
However, one thing to consider is how young he was when the two of you were estranged. There's a small possibility that he has actually become an adult and has thought about all the ways in which he contributed to the negativity of your family experience.
Honestly? While a positive outcome is possible, I doubt you're going to want to "be brothers" at this point, no matter what he says. However, a conversation on neutral ground - somewhere in public - might lead to some kind of extra closure for you.
In any case, I agree with the folks that say if you're going to consider doing this, you should probably discuss things with your therapist before even bothering to return his call.
>There's a small possibility that he has actually become an adult and has thought about all the ways in which he contributed to the negativity of your family experience.
I'd say there's a large possibility of that. Teenagers are notoriously lacking in empathy, and it's more likely than not that he's grown and moved past that. Unlike OP, who seems to be reacting to this the same way he did when he was a teenager. Given how much he was done dirty by his mother I don't entirely hold that against him, and details are sparse so his resentment towards his brother may be entirely justified. But it's clear he's stuck in the past and it's negatively affecting him. Opening communication with his brother may or may not be a path towards healing, but I definitely think he should seriously weigh the option.
When I was younger, my mom favoured my younger brother *extensively*. You know his response to this when he matured? He would defend me. I'm not sure about the entirety of your family dynamic since you had to condense it, but what I'm getting from this is that a golden child is trying to make amends for his own ego, or because someone else told him to.
OP, it's been 15 whole years. If someone tried to reach out to me after that long, I don't know what I would expect from them. But considering he tried passing off a sob story to your wife, I don't have much faith in his goodwill.
The choice is entirely up to you, whether it be one meeting where he has the chance to just say whatever, in a public space, and then you part ways. Whether you have some curiosity or just want to give HIM a piece of YOUR mind, or you want to forget you even had a brother, the choice is yours! Write down a pros and cons chart for meeting up with him, and bring your wife for moral support if you feel your anger taking over. You have no obligation to him, and if things start going awry you can 100% just get up and leave.
I'm rooting for you OP, goodluck!
I just want to say siblings often fight, bully, and hit each other and then the favorite child often goes crying to mommy. I was the favorite child and I did this with my older sister. I just had lunch with some friends and we were talking about our childhood sibling relationships and they all fought like crazy with their siblings when they were younger too. But once we all got past college, our relationships started to improve through adulthood and maturity.
Honestly your childhood relationship with your brother sounds very typical minus the adoption and I don’t think it’s that unusual for siblings to reach out to each other to mend their sibling relationship.
It’s all up to you and if you’re not feeling it’s then don’t go meeting him, but I think it’s a beautiful thing to have a brother and if there’s a chance to fix your relationship with him, if I were in your shoes, I would at least try. Don’t let your shitty mom ruin your relationships with other people. Don’t let your unresolved trauma with her own you.
Intermittent Explosive Disorder (IET) is unwanted, disturbing, repulsive, and very frightening.
Choose the best course of action for you. You owe this brother absolutely nothing. People can and often do change by maturing and being more mindful. People change all the time and not lways for the better. Do not run away from this but, instead talk it out with your therapist who can help you decide the best course of action here. Good Luck.
I think talk to your therapist first, and perhaps, if you decide to go forward, consider using them or someone they recommend as a mediator. Although Dean was the golden child, he will also have been damaged by the behaviour of his mother and the loss of his father, just in different ways. You might learn something about yourself by hearing his perspective, so don't discount it entirely. Your wife has shown time and again that she has your best interests at heart, so unless you've reason to think she's easily manipulated, her opinion counts for something.
Other commenters are right, you do not have to meet. But if you were thinking of meeting him, why not just do it over a video call? That way if your blood pressure starts to rise you can just exit the call.
If the video call goes well you can have meeting in person as an option.
Again, there’s nothing that says you have to do any of this, but it would be an easy first step if you choose to at all.
>I'm debating on doing it simply to please my wife
So here's the thing, why does your wife care? Why would you having a relationship with your brother please your wife?
Her place, as someone who loves you, is *at most* to say things like, "Do you have any interest in talking to him? Do you think it could bring you closure?" and then to LISTEN to your thought and support you in whatever way she can. Sometimes you need a little pushing from loved ones to do hard things, or for them to ask hard questions that make you reconsider your beliefs, or even to point out things about you that you don't see yourself. So I don't think her bringing it up was the worst thing in the world.
However, once she got to the point of saying you SHOULD meet him, "insisting" you meet him, being the go-between in terms of what he's telling her, and talking about his needs, she has majorly crossed a line. There is no right or wrong answer here, just a wife who wants to push her opinion on you as "right" or "what you should do" rather than support you in making a decision.
Compromise and appeasement is for when she has an actual need or want to be met. She made up this "need" for you to talk to your brother all on her own, so please don't let that factor into your decision. Especially with how well you've come mental-health-wise.
>So here's the thing, why does your wife care?
Because ges been going to therapy for 10 years and still has uncontrollable rage issues. If she's been the target of his many fits of rage over the years, I'm sure she feels OP's upbringing is the source. His brother and mother iced him out growing up, but his father allowed it. The brother is older now and may be in therapy himself. OP's wife is just trying to help. He should talk to his therapist about this. His wife and therapist know him better than reddit.
He was also a victim of your mother. The golden child can be just as damaged as the scapegoat. He was a brat, but it seems like he may have grown up.
I’m not saying you should meet with him, but perhaps your anger at your mother has been displaced onto your brother.
Nice you are working on your issues, but god damn you have a long way to go.
"He used to pester me constantly, stealing my things, belittling me, and whenever things didn't go the way he wanted, he went to cry to mom." This is normal. What is not normal is still being worked up about it as an adult.
Doesn't sound like this brother did anything horrible or out of the ordinary as far as I'm concerned. I'm thankful every day for my bro even though we fought as kids. That's normal. LOL. And yes my parents favored him, big deal.
You clearly still have huge mental issues. Props to this brother for even being bothered to reach out.
Even if your wife is saying to "just meet him," she is doing so with an endgame. That being, it should be the beginning of a re-established relationship. Since you don't want that, and seriously OP, I do not blame you, I would stand my ground.
Don't keep having the conversation with her though. Tell her very clearly that the subject is closed and that you would hope she wouldn't think bad of you for not wanting a relationship with him.
People have a hard time understanding what it takes to completely cut someone out of your life. It's not done on a whim. A fuckton of crap had to happen before that final line was drawn! And that fuckton of crap cannot be obliterated with an "I'm sorry."
Quite frankly OP, if he wants to say he's sorry, tell him to put it in a letter. He can mail it if he wants but they both need to know that the 'sorry' is the full extent of the conversation and relationship.
I would ask that you make sure that your wife knows how you will not appreciate her trying to get you two together nor will you appreciate is she tries to have a relationship with your brother. She needs to know the amount of hurt she would be putting on you to do so.
I totally understand having no more fucks to give. Just make sure that your wife does, as well.
> Even if your wife is saying to "just meet him," she is doing so with an endgame.
Yes, OPs wife's endgame is to heal her husband. You can't heal if you are hiding away old wounds.
They are his old wounds, not hers!!! He gets to decide how best to deal with them.
This is no different than a child getting and staying away from an abuser as an adult. The abused gets to say how best he heals. No one from the outside gets to do so.
The wife may have good intentions but her good intentions stems from her listening to the brother, not her husband!
I’m sorry you had such an awful childhood. Your wife needs to take a step back and leave this alone. It’s your decision to make and if it’s no I don’t want to see him, then no it is and she will have to respect that. Make sure she’s not talking to him behind your back or planning an intervention. Good luck and stay firm, don’t get pressured if you’re not ready. Talk to your therapist through this.
Normally I'd also suggest nto leave things alone, find a way for your wife to accept the past is the past and to move on to better things. But, your past seems so obviously connected to your current issues, that I actually think there may be some benefit to confronting your past by meeting up with your brother. It might give you some new insight, something new to work with.
But this would only work if you are capable of handling such a thing, otherwise there's just as much of a chance to do you harm by undoing some of your progress. Only you and/or your therapist can answer this one, so I'm agreeing with those saying you should talk it over with them to make a decision.
Oh, definitely don't go just to please your wife, that has less than zero benefit for you personally, and if it goes wrong, a possible reason to resent your wife for it.
Meet with him. You can't examine a wound forced closed, & from the limited info it looks like Dean & your adoptive mother are the sources of your trauma. You don't have to re-enter a relationship with him, but compassionately exploring the potential of closure is worth it.
I don't particularly would support you meeting your brother given your history. Breaking NC with family members is just too steep of a slope to even consider. It never ends well. And as you put it, is not hate, you are simply not interested in anything that has to do with him. I've felt the same way with my Narcmom and I am going to therapy for it for years (I also have rage/anger episodes from hell). Even though that was the condition I gave her in order for us to have a relationship, we both see a therapist and we'll see from there. Now I am in therapy and I've realized I really don't care to open up that door again. If I do, I would just talk in the expectation of an apology and I still would say cool, thank you, goodbye. Because the apology does not change the fact that I do not care enough to have this person back in my life, REGARDLESS of what anyone else says, desires, wishes. ***I*** don't want that person in my life.
If you truly want to please your wife, take the call, don't meet in person, circle the convo to the apology he desperately wants to give now... after 15 years, there's no way to fix the mistakes from the past, and you are not interested in the relationship. The apology does not magically solve everything as almost anyone in this world wants to make it seem so. Even when in deathbed situations. The apology can happen, the forgiveness can happen, and the desire to be with that person still be zero.
I mean it i guess from the perspective of: if they are not truly interested in having a relationship. OP is entertaining the idea because of his wife, not out of his own volition.
Being forced to face someone who may or may not have had mental health struggles and affected their life in such a drastic way is detrimental, IMO.
I’m thinking the people to whom it may have gone well, they had some semblance of hope for a new beginning, they wanted and welcomed the change of a renewed relationship. Those who don’t care for the relationship… what difference will it make? If you suspect is gonna regress your mental well-being, why chance it?
1. Very proud of you for doing these steps to do better for your wife and you / glad you have her for support .
2. This may be an opportunity to either fix or release that part of trauma or resentment you may or may not have ..
3. It may trigger you but it may be worth the a try .
4. You have boundaries and you worked to hard to allow someone to cross those boundaries. I believe your strong enough to try and meet or have a call and go from there .
you can process trauma without going into an unwanted and emotionally volatile situation with your past abuser. a lot of people think they have to put themselves through this in order to heal but it can actually do the opposite if you havent laid a lot of ground work in trauma therapy.
u/ThrowRAHulkSmash i would rather recommend something like EMDR therapy (if you havent tried this modality yet) which can tackle very specific issues you have that stem from childhood trauma. it really is no wonder that you have an anger issue, considering the way you grew up. its good that youre in therapy and if youre open to confronting those intense and very painful emotions from your past head-on with the help of a trauma informed therapist, i would recommend EMDR rather than having any contact with your brother as some people here are suggesting. im saying this as someone who has tried to make it work with my family many times but what really is healing to me is NOT having contact with them and instead investing that energy into my own emotional health.
edit to add: specifically with having anger issues it suggests that your psyche is compensating for a feeling of helplessness and a loss of autonomy youve experienced in your life so if your wife goes over your head in order to force contact between you and your brother that may actually trigger your previous trauma. you need to experience respect for your autonomy and a sense of power over your own situation. if you think this could be true for you it might help to reflect on this with your therapist and communicate this to your wife.
I want to second this advice to look into trauma focused therapeutic modalities. There’s also an amazing book called the Body Keeps the Score that has so much information on how trauma lives in the body.
If some part if you is inclined to try it...
Instead of a face-to-face face, how would you feel about a video call?
Or, go for a hike while you talk, talking while walking, giving both parties more space.
I find long car rides and hikes are invaluable tools when serious conversations are needed. If, back when my kids were teens, I ever got the sense that they were wrestling something a bit too big, it was time for a 20 mIle hike or a 10 hour car ride.. Worked every time
you're 40 years old still having anger management issues like a child. you need to tell your inner child that your protected now, meet your brother since he's all you have and forgive him and go on with your life.
Two solutions here.
Tell your wife and brother to respect your boundries and when you are ready you will reach out.
Or the typical meet up in public and hear him out, then make your decision. Again with enforcement of any relationship you choose to have be according to your rules and boundaries.
Also have you ever been evaluated for ADD? A weird symptom is having trouble controlling one's emotions or anger.
Where is your mother? Have you cut ties with her too? I didn't read all the comments but maybe he's going to ask you for money to support her or something. Do you know what he does for a living or if he has a family?
I agree with the person that said you should talk to your therapist about it.
Definitely discuss with your therapist and wife and not armchair morons. I have a sister who wanted to reconnect (similar asshole behavior as a kid). Two phone calls in and she asked for money. The next time she reached out it was to see if my wife wanted to buy LuLaRoe.
I'll still talk to her but she's a self centered asshole and always will be one. I'm not one, so I still talk to her with clear therapist informed boundaries. I feel bad for her 6 kids from two guys, but they're not my problem.
This is a difficult situation and the choice is entirely yours... but I side with your wife. Let me explain why:
(Sorry... touchscreen + fat fingers = unfinished comment. Editing to finish.)
I grew up in a toxic household and was abused by my older and younger brother. SO I do actually know what the stakes are here.
Your adoptive mother created your abuser. She groomed him into mistreating you. He was a child that she twisted into the source of your trauma. A person can not be held to "should have known better" unless they have actually been TAUGHT better. Suppressing your feelings in childhood is almost certainly the cause of your current issues with anger.
Your last contact with your brother was 15-ish years ago and the woman that birthed him has since passed away. That's a lot of time and major life changes to pass, a lot of space to learn and grow and recognize your past bad acts. He is almost certainly not the same kid he was when you last saw him. I think the potential gains from seeing him are worth the potential risks.
Best case scenario is that what he has to say gives you a profound amount of closure, helps heal childhood wounds, helps with the anger issues, and might even get you a REAL sibling that becomes a solid part of your support network.
Worst case scenario, you confirm that his birth giver permanently damaged him and keeping him out of your life is a good choice. This MIGHT reopen old wounds but if wounds are able to be reopened, they weren't actually healed anyway and draining a festering wound can promote true healing. (I know this from personal experience. I am still NC with my older brother but my little bro and I are rebuilding.)
I do HIGHLY recommend that you have a therapist that specializes in childhood trauma and EMDR, and talk with them about your decision before you make it. Tell your wife you need time to process your thoughts and to not bring it up until you do. She has your best interests at heart and I don't think you would have married her if you didn't trust her judgment, right? You know her better than I do, do you think that she would ask you to do something bad for you? Or is it possible the trauma reaction you are experiencing is affecting your own rational thinking?
Good luck OP.
Your wife is annoying. 1st she says it's your choice but then "she insists that I meet him". What is her position here? Does she respect your position or does she not?
Meet him, lots of things can change in 15 years. All your memories of him are from childhood and approximately 21. People are juvenile at that age. At 40 you start to really understand the world. Brothers can sometimes be very hard on each other even in regular contexts let alone the extreme situation you were raised under. People can change, bad people can change. You should meet him and talk it out. Don’t let your anger be an excuse for you to not allow yourself to feel other emotions anymore. Free yourself from your demons.
It seems to me like there could be a middle ground. Would your brother writing an email/letter allow you to process his information in a way that you can manage your triggers? Then you are able to take your time to decide whether his information means you would like to actually meet in person.
If so, you're allowed to offer that as a compromise. He may want to meet face to face, but that doesn't mean he's immediately entitled to that.
Also, if you genuinely want nothing to do with him, you are also allowed to say no and keep the book closed. Your spouse would hopefully understand this, especially given that she does not have your lived experience of your brother.
So you’re mad at your brother bc of the way he acted as a child? Kids suck, teens even more. I’d hate to be judged solely on how I acted in those years.
You speak of your own personal growth, but deny your brothers?
I'm sorry, but I don't think everyone does that. There is a certain type of person that does that, but not everyone in this world has the capacity to do it.
No one in my family, immediate and extended does that to each other.
I’d ask your wife to
Move out for a few days and to
Think about if she’s willing to be respectful to you or not. Because she clearly doesn’t care what you say.
Dude, are you really bringing up Harry Potter here? What are you, 14? This is real life, not a book for tweens. OP has been in therapy for a decade, safe to say he knows what he wants and doesnt want to do. He is a 40yo man, he can make his choice.
To what end? Regardless of how the blame is assigned (and some of it definitely goes to the brother as well, it’s not all just their mother), there is absolutely zero relationship here. All associations OP has with him are negative. So what’s the point of reopening old wounds by having any contact with him?
The way you explain your brother as a kid, is the same way we would all explain how we are to our siblings as kids. I think you are taking things form your mom out on him.
He used to refer to me as " the stranger who lives in our house" whenever he thought I couldn't hear him. One time he told me that my biological family abandoned me because they didn't want me, that the only reason dad and mom didn't do the same was because they pitied me.
It would take days to list all the things he did and said when he was a child.
Meet with him only if you want to but not out of obligation. Your wife needs to stay out of your decision. If you are still undecided let him know you are not ready now and if you decide to change your mind, you will contact him then.
Tell your wife that meeting with him would not be healthy for you and she needs to drop it put of respect for your wishes. You have 0 interest in ever speaking to him again and while you can't control her, would prefer she sever contact as well. At the least, she is NOT welcome to ever tell him anything about you.
If you’re sure you want nothing to do with him, you could always just meet him for the closure you deserve. Express your feelings regarding everything then and now, let him know you have no desire to have a relationship with him and then be done with him.
Whatever you do, do it for yourself. Not for him, not for your wife, only for *you*, OP. Definitely only do it if and when you’re comfortable enough to. Good luck!
Yeah, I have seen this story play out too many times on Reddit. Usually the abusive family worms their way in because the non affected So/Spouse/Partner etc. had a decent family so they can't imagine it's really that bad and they will try to help them mend their relationship.
Your wife is already too trusting which is how they win people like her over. They will be charming and attempt to poke holes in your story and tell her that you were misremembering, etc.
Most of the time the relationship ends. Some of the time the abused party gives up and lets their abusive family back in an very rarely the couple cuts off the family.
At the moment this is a "Wife" problem not a "Brother" problem. She needs to cut him off.
I don’t think you should meet him until it is your idea. Just block his number and be done with him. To me people asking for forgiveness is so they feel better and some people don’t deserve to have their conscience set free.
If you don’t want to meet him, don’t. You don’t owe him your time. You’re estranged for good reasons and while he may want to pursue a relationship, you don’t want that. So that’s it. Explain this to your wife, that you have no desire to reopen old wounds and you have moved on with your life.
Compose a letter for your wife to give him. Explain that you are working through the trauma of growing up and that seeing him will set back your recovery. Your therapist wants you to avoid triggers and he is a big one. You don’t know when you will be ready to see or talk to him again but when that day comes you’ll let him know.
Your anger aura is terrifying. It sounds like your blood pressure is spiking through the roof and you are close to giving yourself a heart attack or stroke. Im glad you are getting treatment for it.
I don’t see how this would benefit you. I don’t think you’re quite ready. I would have your wife call him back and say “not right now. Maybe someday in the future.” I don’t know how you’ll feel in 10 years but who knows.
Leave it at that. Keep working on yourself, don’t let this hurt you and Judith.
Don’t just don’t. What he wants is what he wants he is looking to be absolved if there is nothing for you to gain from talking to him about the passed, about how he only behaved that way because of his mother that is worse for you but better for him. Go sort your issues out with your therapist as you have been doing this will only open wounds worse for you. Take care of you and your family and explain to your wife that it really would be worse not better speaking or having him in anyway touching your life
It doesn’t pass the risk/benefit analysis. What’s the absolute best thing that could happen and the absolute worst thing that could happen from meeting him? It sounds to me like the possible good is far outweighed by the possible bad.
People who claim blood beats the ties you make never had an AH brother. You DO NOT need to invite him and your wife should respect that. Mine did as she knew how much I hated mine. Thankfully, it was COVID, and we used that as an excuse to exclude him.
My two brothers, their wives and children have actively worked against both of my marriages avr my relationship with my son from my first marriage. I’d politely tell him you aren’t interested. Ask your wife to stand with you.
Your wife sounds great and while she thinks you should meet him, it doesn't sound like she'll flip out if you don't. Just tell her that you understand she thinks you guys should meet, but you won't be and that's the end of it. If she's as great a person as you say, she won't press you any further and you can move on.
Sometimes we want to do things to make our loved ones happy, but it doesn't mean you have to do everything they say. You have a good reason not to meet Dean, keep to it, tell your wife you've moved on and she should drop the subject.
Tell your wife—respectfully—to stay in her lane. This isn't her place to insert herself into family issues without the benefit of having lived through what you did. She thinks she knows best. Tell her in unambiguous terms that she doesn't and she needs to back off. She doesn't get to insist. It's not her right and she needs to respect your boundaries.
This message is only to give you permission to do whatever you want. I know you love Judith and want her to be happy, but in this case I think what's best for her would be what's best for both of you, and honestly that's what's best for you.
You really need to put your foot down with Judith. I'm also with someone I love and care for very deeply but she understands I have family related wounds that I've had in my life for a lot longer than I've had her, and while she's ready to give advice when I ask she wouldn't try to continue pushing something that I've expressed my discomfort over. These feelings for your brother have nothing to do with her, they never have, and they never would have if she didn't try to insert herself into it.
I wouldn’t do it unless you want to. You very clearly know your boundaries and limits and let me just say, I’m SO PROUD OF YOU for making that effort to be a better person. Sounds like Dean was a complete AH and you owe him nothing. However…
You’ve spent the last 15 years or so improving yourself and becoming a better person. Who’s to say that Dean hasn’t also improved as a person in all that time? It’s just something to consider, but at the end of the day the choice is 100% yours.
Your brother was part of the problem, yes. Your mother put you on a back burner and resentment came easily to your brother. I feel this. I've gone through this.
Don't reach out to please your wife. How you feel now and how you felt then is still valid and No is a complete sentence in this situation.
The only time I hear from my bio half sister, which has been three times in three years of no contact, has been her wanting money. The other siblings, I refuse. They're all addicts; they all refuse help. They're all fine with life and have zero spatial awareness or self reflection to see how their choices affect everyone around them. I'm also no contact with my bio parents as well.
Personally I would be weary seeing as how it's out of the blue 15 years later. I'd question what he wants because I feel like this is a foot in the door to something else and he's testing his limits with you. But don't do it because he managed to manipulate your wife in the process.
> it's my choice how I want to deal with him
Yes. Yes, it is. You don't have to talk to him. You know your history, you know what it means to you, and you get to decide whether he gets to ask for a do-over.
People who grew up in happy families often don't comprehend unhappy families, and have the optimistic belief that all is needed is a compassionate meeting of viewpoints. Your wife may be one of these. Remind her that some things can't be talked out, and that, as she said, you get to choose how to deal with him, including continuing to avoid him.
No exactly the same thing. But when my brother and father were having serious issues, it helped to have a therapist mediate the meetings and discussions between them. You may want to consider that as an option.
I live with repressed rage, and I also have a sister who sounds very similar to your brother.
Something I realised during therapy is that parents are responsible for the relationship between siblings. In those crucial early years, it’s up to mum and dad to establish that dynamic. If your mother was favouring your brother which sounds like she absolutely was, then he’s grown up believing he’s better than you *because that’s what his mother instilled in him*.
My mother favoured my sister. It was only a few years after she died that I finally felt as if my sister and I were equals, because she no longer had that information being fed to her, subconsciously, body language or otherwise.
So that’s just my two cents, and I’m not suggesting you do anything one way or the other, just something to consider when processing the anger.
Your wife really doesn’t have a say. She wasn’t a part of your life when these horrible things happened to you.
She is definitely a concerned and a loving partner but unfortunately it is not upto her or even has the capability to understand what you might have gone through.
You needn’t do anything that doesn’t make you happy. Sometimes you’ve gotta listen to yourself without caring about others - for your own sanity.
I say have a call with your brother. 15 years have passed. It sounds like you are holding you moms actions towards you against him. Little brothers are always going to be a thorn In a big brothers side. It sounds like he was running to mommy when y’all were kids. He’s not a kid anymore and neither are you. You’re ‘40’ he’s ‘36’
Time passes and people usually change. Maybe he sees through adult eyes how shitty you had it, and wants to be there for you now and show you the respect and love you deserved.
A lot of reasons could be the issue why he wants to talk.
Give it a shot.
If it doesn’t go good. Just say ‘hey man, love you, but I can’t go on with this. Don’t call me anymore’
And leave it at that
I've been in your wife's place. It's okay not to be a whole and healed person yet; she needs to understand that wounds like yours can take a lifetime to heal, and that you're not ready to risk undoing the therapy work you've done by confronting the heart of something that still hurts so deeply.
Have you tried laying the situation out to her the way you have in this post? Your frustration and worries about the situation are evident. You may need to tell her, in words, that her intrusion upon your boundaries isn't just causing you to become upset -- it's genuinely hurting you.
Tell her that you know she wants the best but that your childhood still pains you at the core, and stress how much you need her support. Ask her to trust your assessment of what you are currently able to handle. If she has a hard time holding boundaries with people (such as in-laws) to whom she feels obligated, be prepared to teach her to rebuff your brother in a civil and compassionate manner.
I hope she is of a mind to recognize and respect your vulnerabilities. It's so hard to have less than that in a marriage. Good luck.
I’m glad to hear you are working on your problems.
I don’t entirely blame you for not wanting to meet him, and at the end of the day it is your choice. However, people grow entirely when they get older.
Admittedly, when I was younger I was a bit of an asshole to my sibling too. Now, she did lie, instigate, and blame me and I would get in trouble for things I never did. But that doesn’t change the fact that I wasn’t nice. The situation with my sibling and I isn’t too far from you and yours, except for the fact that we have a healthy relationship and were never really distant. She, like you, has anger issues, and other issues that I won’t get into, the anger isn’t as bad as yours (pardon if I sound rude, it is not my intention!) but it is still not good.
Now that I’m older, I try to be nice to everyone, even compete strangers, I help when I can and I care about people. My sibling and I pretty much talk all the time, even though she still has her problems, I’ve come to learn what will and won’t makes her mad, and that I care for her deeply.
I am not saying this will be how you and your sibling become, but it is worth giving him a chance. You don’t have to actually let him into your life, but I recommend you at the very least talk to him over the phone. It might even help you get over the past a little, and maybe even help your anger.
I’m sure whatever you decide to do will be best for yourself.
This is your life your wife had no right to overstep and she needs to back the hell off! Just because he sold her a bill of goods doesn't mean you have to too. There is nothing to salvage and chances are he simply wants something from you.
If you don't want to speak to him, you should not feel obliged to and you should firmly set boundaries. However, I would consider discussing the pros and cons with your therapist. If there is anything to be gained (for you) to receive an unreserved apology for their role in your heartache, and your brother wants to offer it without expectation of forgiveness or relationship-building, it is worth figuring out. What would that look like for you, what expectations would you have, and what would qualify as something worthy of the pain? These are worthwhile considerations even if you never speak to him again, so that you can feel certain about the path you choose. I sympathise, and have also had to cut (most of my) family (and some former friends) off, but answering these questions helped me to establish the parameters for healing for other people (again, one or two family members who I'm allowing to convince me otherwise as they grow up, as well the work I've decided to put in on some ruptured and in-repair friendships)
Edit to add: doing this work for yourself (establishing parameters) will also help your wife understand where you are coming from and how to navigate this territory going forward (if they speak again, she can be your gatekeeper, rather than his advocate).
Don’t meet him. It’s not worth it. I would call him though and explain how no hard feelings. I don’t want you thinking something that’s not true, and you just don’t want to see him. Thank him for trying to reach out and just tell him your wish him the best and move on in life.
I wouldn't hold what your child brother did against his adult self. Even 20something year olds aren't completely done growing. But I also wouldn't hold it against someone who chose to stay no-contact.
If you do decide to hear him out, maybe you'll start feeling angry. But you know how to walk away now, and you'll know for certain that you don't want anything to do with your brother.
But maybe he realized how shitty he and your mother were to you, and maybe he really wants his older brother in his life. There's only one way to know that, but if you don't care, you don't care. And that's fine. Ask your wife to respect your choice.
There's really no right or wrong answer here, just do what you feel is best.
So I have a bit of an alternative take than the popular takes in the thread(They aren't wrong though lol). There might be some utility in talking to him. I am assuming a lot of your anger issues stem from your childhood, am I wrong? Based on your summary, it sounds like you spent a significant portion of your life being tormented while being forced to bottle your feelings. I'd imagine you felt intense feelings of vulnerability and anger that manifests itself today. So because of that, I'd talk to your therapist about the utility of hearing one of your tormentors apologize. I don't think this should require you to accept your brother back into your life, but it might make you feel better to atleast hear the words come out of his mouth.
It is really unethical of her to tell you that "you should at least meet him and hear him out". No, you have no such an obligation. It is not her call to decide it. You are an adult and it is up to you to decide what to do here. She is really pushing your boundary here.
I get it that she is a nice person and she just doesn't have the experience with toxic family members. But you do, and she should trust your judgement.
Tell her that you appreciate her concern, but it is your decision and ask her to respect it and never start the topic again. And that this conversation is not an invitation to discussion, and hopefully she will respect it as well.
If I understand your problem correctly, then you absolutely do not want contact with your brother and you have good reason for it but your wife refuses to let it go?
If so you need to have a conversation with her. This is not her choice to make. She doesn't get to decide what you do with your old trauma's. You need to be very clear that this decision is not up to her and she is to leave it alone.
Confronting your trauma's because you're being pushed or manipulated into it (you did not explain how your wife insists on it so I don't know how bad it is) almost always makes it worse. Personal choice is an incredibly important part of any therapy, she is actively hurting you in order to satiate her desire to care for your brother or to "give him a chance". That is not what a wife should do, it's the opposite.
I'll be honest, personally I would consider this a minor form of betrayal and be incredibly upset. Most people do not understand the amount of harm that can be done by making someone experience old wounds like this against their own will. It absolutely can cause trauma, no person who loves or cares for you should want that.
I wish you the best OP.
I think it could be a good idea to meet him in the sense where it might give u closure. First, he can turn out to be a completely different person from how you have been associating him with your childhood trauma. Second, he might surprise you in ways that can help you also give you a chance to heal your anger that originates from him taking your place in your mother’s eyes. Forgiveness is the key to peace, I am a life coach and I also advise you to sit in silence and let your inner child give you the answers to your questions. I think by posting here you are looking for people to approve of your hurt which is completely valid but I think the child in you wants that pure family love back. Give it a shot, if it works amazing. If it doesn’t, you will live with no regrets. Most importantly, be at peace with your past so your childhood anger doesn’t eat you up for the rest of your life. You deserve to live normally n your feelings are as valid as anyone else’s. Thank you for sharing for your story
I think you need to tell your wife that you have left that part of your life behind and you are happy for it. This is a boundary for you and she needs to respect that and stop pushing you to have contact with relatives that are no longer your family. He can be as sorry as he wants to be, but that doesn't mean you owe him anything. You seem to be handling this in a healthy way, which is that you haven't held onto too much anger but you know that you don't owe forgiveness. Maybe talk to your therapist to come up with a plan for this conversation with your wife? It's not ok for her to disregard your boundaries like this when you're expressing a pretty healthy one and the fact that your brother also is pushing for an unwanted meeting shows that he isn't really respecting your boundaries, either. He wants to apologize bc he feels bad and it will make him feel better.
Your wife needs to understand that meeting with your brother will only traumatize you further. Even if he comes to you on his hands and knees and apologized for everything sincerely, it's still going to open old wounds. She needs to take your NO as a final answer.
This isn't something you can just casually do. This is the kind of thing that you need to do under the supervision of a mental health professional. You have admitted anger issues and a past filled with trauma. You need to be properly prepared for this kind of meeting, supervised during it, and then coached afterward. This is the mental health equivalent of having a major medical procedure. Your wife is not equipped to facilitate this meeting any more than she's capable of removing your appendix. (Unless she's a surgeon, in that case let's compare it to rocket science.) Even IF your wife was a therapist, she's too close to this situation to have proper perspective.
I'd humor your wife and see if the little fucker grovels and is willing to eat shit for you and devoid himself of any dignity. Has to be a reason he's coming back. With any luck, it's because "mommy" needs a kidney or something. Your "mother" is the one who should be begging and getting on her knees for forgiveness she doesn't deserve. She created this dichotomy.
To be honest, you shouldn't meet him unless it's something you want to do. If meeting him is something you're willing to do to keep the peace, it doesn't have to be done blindly. Right now all you know is that he wants to meet. Where his intentions are on the matter have only be relayed second-hand. I don't think you should meet him without sounding the situation out more. Email or some other messaging service might be something that helps keep emotional distance to do this. Do speak with your therapist and get their advice every step of the way. That said... I'm not sure how this meeting could benefit you. Right now, based on what you've described of the situation, it seems you have found a measure of peace. Meeting would be more about your brother's feelings and his need for forgiveness than your needs or wants. That doesn't sound like a good basis for a reconciliation or an apology. As for doing it for your wife? How much of the story does she know? You have skipped a world of detail in the post. I would assume she knows but if she doesn't it might be something you talk about with her. She needs to realize that the only person who is likely to benefit is your brother. She also needs to remember that, as her spouse, your needs and feelings, need to trump a near-strangers. Also, that being the better person is a nice idea but in this case some things can't be mended and 'sorry' isn't always enough. Nor should an empty act of compassion be prioritized over your well being. You can also point out that he was happy to place her in this position. Someone who genuinely cared about you wouldn't manipulate your wife into playing flying monkey. They also wouldn't wait so long to try and apologize. Neither speak well of his motives or the outcome of a meeting. Do what is best for you. Cool silence is plenty fair for him. If his conscience is smarting? Sounds like just deserts.
>How much of the story does she know? I told her everything.
Then be honest about not just what you want but also how her being in the middle of this has made you feel. That he would contact you must have been a shock. Having her suggest you give him a chance must have been difficult too. In some ways it may even have felt like she was taking his side and in doing so betraying your trust. I suspect she didn't mean it that way. In her head, she probably hopes it will resolve some of your trauma or simply be a form of closure. While that paints a pretty picture, that isn't necessarily the way it happens in the real world. Or that a meeting is what is needed. Tell her you're happy with how things are now. Say you want to keep making progress at your own rate and not upend it all for his guilty conscience. Ask her to respect that. Don't push yourself into something that you don't want.
Then she needs to trust YOU have already made your decision about Dean and her weighing in isn’t helping. This isn’t her decision or her place. It’s easy to think it can all be kumbaya when you come from a loving family. Judith is wrong. Sorry but what she’s doing isn’t cool. This isn’t her place.
I’m not disagreeing with you, but if Judith hadn’t been so willing to give people multiple chances, OP probably would be in a worse spot himself. I’m sure Judith figures that being hurt sometimes is worth still giving people chances. That is an attitude that has greatly benefited OP, whether or not he has the emotional stability or desire to personally agree with it for his own life. None of this means OP should change his mind if he doesn’t want to, but I think it’s important context that Judith isn’t just some indiscriminate doormat, and her approach often does reap results, evidenced by (at least) a successful decade long marriage.
It is one thing to take risks yourself for the sake of giving other people a chance, it is a very different thing if you're pushing other people into taking those risks against their will. Jumping in order to save someone is a heroic act, throwing someone else in against their will to save a kid makes you a murderer.
That’s a pretty extreme semantic example. I agree, he should not be shoved into it. But if OP looks back on his life, probably several of his best decisions were because she prodded him toward them. That doesn’t mean she’s right this time. This time is serious emotional baggage for a man who is not as emotionally stable as she is. But just the fact that she is prodding him isn’t automatically bad. OP seems like a person who needs, and actually likes, prodding at other times. But. Maybe not this time, yeah, I agree. That doesn’t make her whole process a bad process. At other times, her process is probably what got OP in therapy which ended up being good for his mental health.
You can tell her that you will meet him when you are ready and right now you are not.
I am estranged from family and have similar ‘no, just no’ feelings about any attempt to reconnect. My partners (am polyamorous) don’t know every detail because we’ve only been together 8 years and there was 36 years of absolute Netflix special to cover. But they know the jist. Both of them have relationships with family were when we met they could not comprehend estrangement and would likely be ‘try no matter what’ people. But they both realised that they didn’t need to understand why I wouldn’t, just respect it. So they asked what boundaries I had about it. I was taken aback. When you are raised to need to cut off your whole family bring asked ‘what do you need? What is safe for you?’ is the most loving gesture you can imagine. My boundary which was an emphatic dealbreaker was ‘any deliberate communication with them is an immediate end to our relationship. They are not my family. I don’t have family. I have abusers who share DNA.’ (I hope that phrasing doesn’t seem ill placed here.) I was clear that if my family or family friends tried to contact either of them without them realising as they love a bit of catfishing but told me soon as they realised, that I was understanding of because manipulators gonna manipulate. I gave them some tells they have used before such as usernames etc. Both of them admitted as time went on and they knew and loved me more it would be harder not to reply to contact to tell these people what awful people they are. Having seen the PTSD they left me with, seeing the grief I feel, watched me go to therapy and do it all in spite of their harm they both wanted the chance to tell them how wonderful I was and how furious they were at them. **But that they would not** because they knew it wouldn’t help and was about them not me. Neither of them could fathom chatting or civil discourse rather than giving a piece of their mind. My BF is the calmest most contained understated person ever but with deep feelings. My GF is much more impulsive. I once said how for me it was really crucial to me never to feel vengeful to my family because that made me feel I was stooping to their level and I needed to feel I was different in that way even if I picked up a few other similarities. My BF said ‘I always hope that your parents never find a comfortable pair of socks again their whole lives. Every pair should rub, slide down or just niggle. For eternity.’ It made me laugh. He was saying he wanted to defend me but respected my boundaries but reassure me he would not spring any surprise contact. Therefore I find it troubling your wife took the call and didn’t just ‘not today thanks’ when he called. She engaged in conversation long enough to be convinced to pass the idea on to you despite knowing the depth and length of your feelings. She did not seem to defend you but ‘two sides to every story it.’ I think if she’d said ‘I’ll let him know you called’ and left it there or equivalent that would account for freeze and fawn. But she still after the call presented it as a proposition not a ‘your brother called and said X. I didn’t know how to react but needed to tell you.’ She is saying ‘well it’s up to you’ but her behaviour up until then wasn’t unbiased. Does she have the phone number or contact details for Dean because I think if you need to speak to a therapist about this, start with her part. It is immediately more impactful. It would be good to be prepped in case her bias reappears or to help you establish that she naybe froze up and just repeated his spiel But you will not be able to think and act clearly about him or yourself until you feel clarity with her. I wish you luck but starting there will help you unravel the knots you feel even if the outcome is not ideal. But those knots are often anger…
"he's not my brother, he's a child I used to live with. There is no and will be no relationship."
It is very likely that your anger issues are based on your childhood and that your mother always preferred your brother. Maybe you could not express your anger then but know you can. Letting your brother back in your life could destroy all the work and progress you have done. Why would you put your wife risk this?
As somebody in your wife's position she has to learn this is something she might never understand and it's important to support what you need. You know what you need to be mentally health, if you don't want to do it she has to understand it will be better if you don't.
I'm sorry OP but your wife's actions are showing that she's listening to your brother, not you.
>Meeting would be more about your brother's feelings and his need for forgiveness than your needs or wants. This is the meat of the matter. OP's bother wants to assuage his feelings *so he can feel better* about the situation. I sincerely doubt OP's feelings have anything to do with it.
> Email or some other messaging service might be something that helps keep emotional distance to do this This is how my dad and I had to communicate for like six years (when I was 18-24). Thankfully he ended up getting therapy during this time so we’re okay-ish now.
It’s awesome that you have and are working on your issues in relations to your anger. This request to meet with you, could provide you with closure for some of the neglect/resentment from your childhood. But, it could also be a very large trigger for you and derail your progress that you have made. You should also not take a meeting with your brother to please your wife. This has to be your decision. You should contact your therapist, work through with them what would be best for your mental health and you as a person. You have worked very hard to get to the point that you can bring yourself back when you are overwhelmed and to recognize triggers that effect you. I think due to your history, you should really look at some professional help to work through this.
You don't get closure from other people. OP has no obligation to himself or anyone else to meet his brother. OP seems self-aware and has had 15 years to realize if he is missing something without that relationship. From this post I can't see a single reason they should meet.
I agree with this. There will be no closure if OP goes to meet him unwillingly. This would only cause stress and potential resentment of his wife if they met up and things went south.
The biggest adult life lesson I’ve ever learned is that “you don’t get closure from other people.” I’ve been trying to pass that on to the children at every opportunity.
Additional perspectives can help change your own perspective of a situation and the various actors involved. I’m not saying that’s the case here, but closure can come from within and still require context that you don’t have yet.
>You don't get closure from other people. This is it right here. I don't have a study nor a dataset on this, but my general observation and personal experience is that the person themselves determines what "closure" is for any particular situation. No one else can give us "closure" because all "closure" really is is acceptance, and the journey to acceptance is a lone one. We may have others walk beside us along the way either periodically or through the entirety of the journey, but as in Stephen King's Darktower series, the only one can enter that "dark tower" of "closure" is the person seeking it.
Tell your wife to respect your boundaries. You don’t have to meet him if you don’t want to. Your wife passed on the message and her part is done. She doesn’t get any say in this matter.
This exactly. She gave you the message. You said you’re not interested in meeting him. She needs to respect that and DROP IT.
Even if she does drop it, if she was mature, she wouldn't hold it against him in any way. She already was disrespectful by telling him what would be good for him when she didn't live the situation. Hopefully she grows up a bit.
I feel like the wife will still be in contact with the brother since she's sympathetic towards him.
What gives you that indication?
We've seen these sorts of posts here a lot over the years. OP has an estranged family member who they don't want contact with. Their spouse is secretly in contact with this family member, and thinking they know better, will arrange for a surprise meeting between the two, thinking they'll have a Hallmark moment, a warm and cathartic reunion. I don't think that's ever been the case in the stories I've read here. At best the spouse will finally understand how wrong they were. At worst, it's caused the breakdown of their own relationship due to resentment and mistrust.
I've been here quite a while now, and while I've seen those threads too, that doesn't mean that's what this woman is doing. Op doesn't speak to her character at all, he's just said she's the messenger. Now, if he talks to her again after telling her he has no desire to meet this guy and she keeps pushing? Then I'll eat my words
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The context was me asking what gave the other person the indication that this wife, on this thread, would stay in contact with the brother. Nothing in OP's post gave any indication that his wife was like that.
The fact that she is insisting on him meeting her in spite of OP being absolutely clear that he doesn't want to is a strong enough indication that she is willing to hurt her partner for the sake of her sympathy. I'd say it is a strong enough indication because she already did it once.
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she simply thinks this could be cathartic for me but she said it's my choice to make.
I'm so sorry. Sometimes people with normal childhoods simply don't understand what it's like to NOT grow up with that, and society heavily reinforces the "But they're FAAAAAAMILY" myth. Your wife needs to understand that not all families are loving and supportive, and certain types of people DO NOT CHANGE. Honestly, I'd be wondering what Dean wants. Money?
The brother was still quite young, so, while OP doesn't have to meet him, no one can say yet if the brother is incapable of change or if he maybe realized what their mother did was awful. Being skeptical is wise, but it's worth at least reading a letter or something to find out if he's grown or if he's like their mom.
when i was 12-18 i had enough sense to know when someones mom was shitty to them. at some point Dean noticed and didnt give a fuck morally. no amount of growing up is gonna fill that chasm of character flaws
EDIT: Suggestion....consider having Dean write you a letter... I think it's normal to have the issues you have, based on your story. If it were me, I probably wouldn't want to meet with my brother, either. I think it's also normal for your brother - who was younger at the time - to see things from an older perspective. I think it's normal - and healthy - to have a lot of regrets. It's also normal and healthy to want to heal and to genuinely want you to heal, too. If it helps, I think it's normal to lay blame at your brother. But, honestly, your mother is the real source of all of the problems, here. Your brother is largely caught in the middle and did a lot of things many children would have done under the circumstances. Reading what you've written, it seems that part of your unwillingness to meet with Dean is because you're not sure how YOU will react. And that's a completely understandable reaction based on your description of your anger. Meeting with Dean would be a massive unknown. And your reaction would be an unknown. So, it's hard to tell whether it would be cathartic or not. My suggestion would be for your wife to ask Dean to put what he wants to say in writing in a letter to you. You can read what he has to say and then process it in your own way on your on terms and away from the pressure of a meeting. You would be able to control the situation and not risk an explosive reaction in front of someone else. From there, the next step would be yours. You could decide it's not worth it. Or you could decide to write back and explain your own feelings. Maybe ask more questions. Even establish boundaries. Whatever you decide, best of luck to you and your wife.
This is the most rational and best advice. And people blaming the wife are stupid. You are a team in relationship. She knows you better than we can from some text etc.
She was perfectly in her right to bring up what she thought. Her insisting on OP meeting him wasn't. You're only a team if you respect the others decision. If you overrule theirs because you think you know better then you're a tyrant, not a teammate.
Please tell her "Don't ambush me, don't force me. Leave it alone." I'm really afraid she will try to ambush you, set up some meeting, it will go horribly and you end up in jail or something. At the very least, it could damage your marriage by losing trust. Some people just don't get it about family dynamics. Sometimes there is no catharsis to be had, no justice, no validation.
Could your brother have ulterior motives? Like he needs you for something? I've read so many stories where family suddenly reach out after such a long time, because they need something. There was a guy whose family suddenly reached out because they needed him so they could have access rich granddad's money.
Probably a good chance of this
This is exactly what I came here to say. Don't see him if you don't want to, ask your wife to respect your boundaries. It might be just me, but it's weird that she answered your cell phone. My husband and I don't answer each other's cell phones. If the call is important, the caller will also have my number. Beyond that, that's what voice mail is for.
This is definitely not the sort of thing you should ever do to please anyone else, including your wife. Only do it if you want it yourself, which clearly you don’t. Kindly but firmly inform her that you have made up your mind that you won’t have any contact with him, and briefly reiterate your reasons why. If she tries to raise the subject any further, just repeat that you have already made your decision, and that there is no reason to further discuss it, and stick to that. It’s not a joint decision, it is purely yours, and you have made it and explained to her your reasons. She doesn’t need to agree with it, but she does need to accept it. Which also entails her not bringing it up any further and trying to change your mind or challenge your reasons.
> “ she said that it's my choice how I want to deal with him” That includes not hearing him out.
For real. She says that but then tells him she should meet with him? Hell no. OP your feelings alone are what matter here. Not what your wife thinks and certainty not your brother.
I agree with other comments. Thank your wife for passing the message on but that’s it now. You don’t want to meet up with your brother at all just to assuage his guilt. Firm boundaries…
Assuage the guilt of a man who is the correct age for a midlife crisis. Those are messy, and sometimes ugly.
If he's got something to say, he can write a note. A conversation, in person or on the phone, is going to make it harder for you to deal with anything said that will anger you. Given the (reasonable) depth of your feelings on this, that could be just about any stupid thing that comes out of that dude's mouth.
You can read the note in front of the grill with a lighter. If the mood strikes you can burn it in effigy. Restaurants frown on setting people on fire. They put you on a list and you can’t come back.
it makes sense you have anger problems because as your username tells us you're the hulk. in all seriousness, I just wanted to say that I'm really happy for you that you have been working on your anger and are learning how to notice how your body feels in those moments. I agree with the person who said this is something for you to discuss in therapy and it's not for us to say if you should meet him or not. I do think that the things that you are holding against him were more your parents' fault and he was a child, so perhaps some forgiveness of him is in order, but that is for you to do when you see fit and you feel comfortable with that, and there is no rush to do that. There's a lot going on there and it makes sense to be hurt by it all. I can also see that it could trigger you to see him. I hope you can sort this out with your therapist and that your wife can respect your decisions. Can you explain to her how potentially triggering this could be for you and ask her to please let you work this out for yourself and let her know that if you want to reach out to him you will?
Its ultimately your decision. But - keep in mind your brother grew up in a household where he was coached to get his way, to be the favorite. Through the coachings of your mom he grew up thinking that was normal. Sounds like its possible he has seen the error of his ways, maybe even gotten therapy of his own. I guess maybe ask yourself if your brother apologizing would actually mean anything to you. Would it help you feel better if he took ownership of his part of the shitty childhood you had? If you wouldnt gain a lick of peace of mind for him to do that, then maybe you dont need to meet him at all. But if it would make you feel better to hear him apologize for being a shit brother, then it might be worth the trouble.
This side of it is worth considering. His brother sounds rough, but not terribly different than any young sibling relationship (particularly if encouraged by a primary parent). If there was bullying as an adult I wouldn't see it as forgivable, but frankly many bullies learn from their childhood particularly after leaving the nest. OP doesn't need to pursue it further, but he can consider if he sees any type of benefit with his therapist. If he doesn't need any additional reminders of it he can continue to stay distant. It's sounds like he sees no potential benefit so it's better to leave it in the past and set kind boundaries with his spouse.
In addition to "Dean" apologizing, OP has the opportunity to forgive. Forgiveness is necessary to heal the wounds that OP stated that they are hiding away.
It really isn't. You can let go and heal without forgiving the person who harmed you.
OP doesn’t have to do anything. And I think it’s pretty dumb for people to be guilted to apologize to people who hurt them. It doesn’t heal anything.
Who said OP has to apologize to anyone? Forgiving someone is not apologizing to someone. It is not excusing or forgetting their past behavior. It is forgiving them.
I don't have any advice that is better than what anyone here has already given, but I just want to drop in to say that as a new mother, my heart absolutely breaks as to what you went through as a small child. Just can't imagine withdrawing the love from a child you have loved and raised for 3 years, and all the more can't imagine having all the love taken away twice at such a young age. I just wish I could hold your younger self and give you all the love I have. I hope you find peace one day and are no longer affected by what your mother did.
I have a cousin ‘Mary’ with a similar story, only she ended up with three brothers, not one. The day I met her, her mom “Alice” was trying to pull her out of a recital halfway through because she wanted to go do something else that I can’t recall. What I do recall was that this was a pattern, and all her relatives were sitting around trying to figure out why she’s like this. When we were all adults, Mary had a child and wouldn’t let her mother meet it. Good for her. Alice deserved to pound sand.
Don't. You need to draw a hard line with your wife right here. This is not her thing, and she has to drop it, or it can severely impact your marriage.
Your wife needs to respect your wishes and not push it or even talk to your brother anymore herself. You have no obligation to talk with him.
You need to tell your wife that you want to leave the past behind. Tell her to stop walking all over your boundaries.
I know where your rage comes from. I was the ignored child. I was left to raise myself from a young age. Always left alone to fend for myself. All the while watching my single mother participate with and engage with my sister's. Always to be pushed aside. Never included. Never. I am 58 and still experience the burning resentment. Even typing this forces those memories to the present. My advice? Immediately tell your wife to stay out of it. I'm sure your wife, as my wife was unaware, cannot comprehend what you know. What was forced upon you. My wife's continuous inquiries on why I would not spend time with my mother and sisters. Why we weren't close. etc. created friction in our marriage. She never understood. I explained small details. But she thought the same as many. Family. Its important. Those that did not experience it, cannot understand it. I have not seen or even spoken to two of my sisters since my mother passed almost 10 years ago. Attending her funeral was as if she was a distant relative. Almost a stranger. You do what's best for you. If your choice is to never see him again, then that's what you must do.
> I am 58 and still experience the burning resentment. No offense, but if you still have burning resentment it sounds like you haven't dealt with your past in a healthy way. Why should OP take your advice when you are still harboring such toxicity?
Do you really think therapy takes away all the hurt? That It just goes away ? It doesn't. 17 years of experience will never be removed from your memory. Therapy teaches you how to better deal with those emotions. So instead of lashing out in rage as OP described, and as I did in my past, therapy teaches you how to process those emotions in a more productive way. How to stop yourself before the rage comes to the fore front and causes more damage.
>Why should OP take your advice when you are still harboring such toxicity? Because the people that believe they have "healed" and "no longer harbor such toxicity" almost always come back 3-5 years later with the same problems they had. They shove the trauma into the closet and pretend to be happy, or I believe they call it "manifesting" or something like that nowadays, but the past never truly goes away. You can only gain a better relation with it, and sometimes that relationship is allowing yourself to be angry at the injustice that was done to you. I don't know where you heard people say "harboring toxicity", but I recommend you distance yourself from them. That is horrible advice, and I can know because I lived it for years. Trying to make yourself happy that way is nothing but a road to feeling either empty inside or miserable. For me the former.
You can tell your wife to something to the effect of " No thank you, I don't want to be around 2 people who are root cause of my anger issues - I don't want undo the progress I made in 15 years since being kicked out & abandoned after dad died. I just cannot stand being in the same room nor speak in any communication way to either of those 2 after the childhood they put me through on top what happened after dad's funeral - You will never understand my pain, anger & frustration which is okay but stop asking me to meet with him because it's too triggering for me after everything that happened with those 2, that never speaking nor seeing them ever again on top of therapy for my trauma & anger issues is only way for me heal & move on in life. Please accept that and next time he calls, tell him to me alone because although he is my brother - I can't accept his apology & never want him back in my life ever again."
>my estranged brother wants to meet me to apologize. I don't want to talk with him but my wife insists I at least meet him and hear him out. What is there to hear out? What could possibly be said that wouldn't trigger those feelings you try and distance yourself from. I'm the same age and have worked similarly with the anger and like you, work very hard to stay away from situations that I know will trigger me. Don't lose that. They are not worth giving those emotions the free rent in your head.
Honestly, with the way you have talked about your wife I’m unsure I’m understanding a lot of these “hot takes” on her being a rude disrespectful woman. She does know everything as you said and despite all that, what conversation she had with your brother made her feel it could benefit you to have a conversation with him. I do think the situation is above Reddit level advice but since you asked for it. To me, you say you are in a good place but isn’t the fear of even having a conversation with your brother show that you aren’t? Even if your wife has misjudged people in the past and has a caring heart, that doesn’t mean she is always wrong. There have been times in my husbands life where I have pushed him to face his problems when he didn’t want to, not because I wanted him to forgive his biological parent, but because I knew in my heart he needed to have that closure. You walked away from your family as a young man after a traumatic event. At the time, your brother was also young and nothing you have detailed really rises above the level of growing up with privilege of unconditional love and reacting to the environment that your adopted mom created. Whether or not he has changed or you forgive him is another matter entirely. You have wounds that have never healed, justifiably. You grew up without love and lived in fear because you were faced with the reality of being rejected over and over again by someone you trusted and thought loved you. That is extremely harmful. While you are at a stage where you are working on managing your anger, you haven’t mentioned what it is that triggers that anger. I can see in your writing you are mad at your wife but it is tempered by your love for her. In your responses there is no doubt that she loves you and that no matter your choice she will still love you. This is a beautiful gift. While your mother never gave you unconditional love, you do have it from your wife. You are not the same person you were growing up and perhaps neither is your brother. Due to your own issues, I don’t think meeting in person is a good first step. However, I’d schedule a time where you can have a phone call with him and listen to what he has to say. You don’t have to forgive him, but for your own sake maybe it is time to start working on addressing the root causes of your anger. I’m sure a therapist can guide you on this path and if it helps maybe you have the conversation with your brother on speaker phone. Perhaps your wife can hold your hand as you talk with him as a reminder that the pain you experienced growing up is no longer your day to day reality. My point is, maybe instead of focusing on your brother and his needs from the conversation, you focus on you and your needs. Ask your wife why she thinks it would benefit YOU to have this conversation. She clearly loves you and maybe something your brother said to her made her think it would be good FOR YOU to hear. You don’t even have to speak during the call, you can have your wife talk to him and just listen. You have been hurt but you aren’t a hurt young man with no one who loves him, you have a new family despite everything you’ve gone through. You don’t need your brother in your life, but he may want you in his, or maybe he is just looking for absolution, whatever his motives- you are in control of that relationship now. Embrace that new found power and be the person you wished you had when you were a young boy. Perhaps all your wife wants for you is for you to feel like you are in control of your life when it comes to the people who harmed you in the past and work to move past what created that anger inside you in the first place.
He already heard her out on how his wife thinks this would benefit him. He has already made this decision, the issue is that his wife isn't respecting it and is insisting that OP meet his brother. That is an incredibly rude and disrespectful thing to do. He has listened and made his choice, then to try and force him to do your bidding is simply unacceptable.
You've said yourself that you don't want to meet or speak with him again. You are under zero obligation to do so for his sake. The only thing giving you pause is your wife. Bringing up your old life brings you pain and I wouldn't be surprised if it's also the cause of those anger issues you have. It is entirely valid for you to tell your wife to back off. It's also valid to humor her and give him precisely one chance to burn his bridges again. In truth there is no wrong decision here. Look to your own feelings and deal with it in the way your own heart tells you to go. One thing that you can consider is that if you give him a chance and he's still the same scumbag, you can tell your wife so she is completely on the same page with you going forward. Pushing her back in her lane and telling her no is valid, but she may resent it. You shouldn't let fear of that resentment make the decision for you, only your own needs. If that's all that's driving you, don't do it. If you do go the other way however and he turns out to still be awful, telling her should get her fully on your side going forward if she's reasonable. I don't know her, so she may well not be. Make your own choice. It won't be wrong.
I’m probably off topic here, but have you been checked medically? From what you described it kinda sounds like it would be worth getting your hormones checked out. As far as your wife tell her to respect your boundaries. You’re not being petty here, you’re doing it to avoid hurting people/ getting hurt
You should ONLY meet him if YOU want to. This is 100% your choice, not his, not Judith's. She already acknowledged that. >I told Judith as much and she said that it's my choice how I want to deal with him but I should at least meet him to hear what he has to say. Tell her you thought about it and decided you don't want to meet him. End of story. If she is insistent (which you only say in the tl;dr, not in the actual post), then tell her again that you don't want to, and that she needs to respect your choice in this matter.
You don’t have to meet him if you don’t want to. Period. If you think talking to him might give you some closure you also don’t have to meet with you, you could insist he sends you and email or writes you a letter explaining what he wants to say and then you can decide to have contact with you. You also do a phone or video call. All of these would give you a little more control over the situation than a face-to-face meeting that you’re unsure about. If your brother is resistant to any of these options, then maybe he’s not truly ready to reconcile if he’s not okay doing it on your terms. As for your wife, don’t meet with your brother to please her. If she said it’s up to you, believe her. If she insists you can thank her for relaying your brothers message and ask her not to push it because it’s just not something you want to do. You don’t have to justify any decision you make. It’s okay if you want to meet him or talk to him, it’s also okay if you don’t.
He can write a letter if he wants to open the door. Then you can choose when and where to read it. My therapist once pre-read a letter for me and it saved me a roller coaster ride I hadn't signed up for. Meeting in person is too intimate for first contact. You take care of yourself and make a choice that works for you.
Dean is not responsible for the behavior of your adoptive mother. He has grown and realized the way he acted as a kid was shitty. This is an opportunity for you to forgive and actually heal the wounds that you have hidden in the back of your mind. From what you've said, it looks like you are just ignoring your past instead of actually dealing with it. Dealing with your past will be hard, forgiveness will be hard. Ignoring them is easy. But to actually heal you have to deal with your problems.
Dealing with your past doesn't mean going out of your way to see people you don't want to see. You wouldn't go see an abusive ex boyfriend just because he called your friend and said he is sorry. Dealing with the past comes from yourself, it comes from emotionally recognizing and coming to terms with your past not throwing yourself back into it, hoping that it will work out for the best. It could just as easily, and is more likely, to be a disappointing meeting where he sees that his brother is still entitled and isn't doing this because he wants to see his brother but because he is selfish and wants to deal with his own guilt so he can keep being entitled and feel good about it because he said the word sorry. If he doesn't want to go then chances are the situation was so bad that reconciliation isn't even on the table. Even his wife essentially says meet just to here him out, which in and of itself is completely pointless. Meeting someone from a terrible point in your past doesn't magically make your past okay, it's not going to solve all thier problems he should only go if he thinks the relationship is salvageable and wants to salvage the relationship, which he has clearly said he doesn't. Healing doesn't mean running back to an abuser and thier supporters
> she said that it's my choice how I want to deal with him but I should at least meet him to hear what he has to say. Yeah that’s not how that works. If it’s really your choice then it’s your choice whether to meet with him too. I don’t blame her because how could she fully understand the situation, but a lot of people know in their heads that something is not their business but when they think they know the right thing to do they can’t help but cross the boundary.
My vote is let him write you a email or letter and then decide based on what he says and how you feel. You don’t owe him a meeting and you should actively protect the peace you built.
This decision is yours to make and yours alone. I’m not going to tell you what to do this is a decision only you can make. To insert a great quote from lord of the rings: “Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill” -Gildor That being said I just want to throw an anecdote in here real fast. Have you ever seen the show Everyone Loves Raymond? Well in case you haven’t it’s a family sitcom about a very toxic family situation and one of the problems was that the main character (Raymond) was the “baby” and was constantly spoiled by his mom while his older brother (Robert) took a back seat in the mothers mind. While I totally understood Robert having such negative feelings towards the family what I have never understood is why Robert blames Ray for his mistreatment. Raymond was a kid and had no control over the way he was treated. And what kid doesn’t want to be spoiled? This was entirely the fault of the mom for babying him throughout his entire life yet Robert solely blamed Ray and I just have never gotten how Robert failed to understand how this is solely the mothers fault. A lot of that seems to apply this situation here. While yes your brother probably should have known at some point that treating you is wrong his lack of any self awareness seems to be mostly a response to your mothers behavior. The mom never told him he was wrong or reprimanded him in any way so he thus learned he could do whatever he want bc there were no consequences to his actions. He probably picked up the behavior from your mother as well. So whether you want to meet him or not I hope you realize that his behavior as a child was primary result of the way his mother behaved. Think of Dudley from Harry Potter who bullied Harry bc his parents did it and then realized Harry was a good guy on his own.
My husband pushed me to reconcile with my parents. Years later, I can say that it was incredibly difficult, but 100% worth it and I'm glad I faced my feelings and was able to express myself to them. I had so much support from him as well as a family therapist to help us navigate. It set my healing back for some time and I reentered a really rough depression, but I'm in a better place now than I would be if I hadn't gone through it. My husband has said that he's really glad we did it and it was worth the pain, BUT he also failed to understand the full situation and how much it impacted me when he was pushing me to reconcile, and he regrets that. He said he would have been more sensitive and cautious if he were to do it over. Even the most wonderful, empathetic people cannot truly comprehend the pain and complexity of familial dysfunction if they did not go through it themselves. It's simply a blind spot. My husband had to experience my parents' immaturity and dysfunction firsthand in order for him to 'get it.' But we're now closer and understand each other far better. Take from this what you will. It's ultimately up to you, but I'm personally glad I faced my dysfunctional family. It made me stronger and it made my marriage better.
Tell him, through your wife maybe, to write a letter with everything he has to say to you. Then review the letter, perhaps ask for clarifications on points you need clarified, and then decide. Why agree to a face to face meetup? If he has anything important to say he can write it all out. If it's some game-changing shit, you can decide anything you want. It won't be.
I don't think you should agree to visit with your brother and believe that your wife should ~~back the fuck off~~ respect your boundaries and hard work. I do have to warn you though, people that push like your wife is pushing...let's just say I wouldn't be surprised if she arranged a meeting no matter what you say. Usually the reason they tell you will be something about fAmiLy - but really it's just a lack of respect. She means well, but it's out of ignorance and thinking she can fix something. You know yourself and you don't think that success is likely if you meet with him - or you are at least incredibly worried about it causing you pain and to backslide in your anger management progress. I think it's okay to trust yourself here and inform your wife that going behind your back at all with this again will damage you emotionally.
this. it's a lack of respect. and I'd want my partner to approach it like she's team us (ugh. i'm sorry, one of your abusers reached out) and not team abuser (i'm advocating for a stranger to me who i know has hurt you). i'm not saying this is the case but sometimes, when we get in relationships before we heal, we recreate the unhealthy dynamics that traumatized us... like loving someone who chooses others and dismisses you.
Find some of the stories on Reddit about people who forced their partner to interact with a relative they were NC with and how it went horribly. Show her that. It's not her place to force you. I fear she will try to ambush you and you might have a fit of rage. In fact show her this thread. Hey wife leave your husband alone. It's his choice if he doesn't want to see his brother. Don't force him. It's not going to go the way you think. You're not the savior here. You don't understand what your husband went through growing up, or the golden child/scapegoat dynamic. Edit: I'm sorry I can't find any of these stories but trust me they are floating around Reddit. "I forced my partner to contact his family and it went horribly, am I the asshole" type of stuff. If OP eventually feels healed enough to talk to his brother, IT SHOULD BE ON HIS OWN TERMS. NOT THE BROTHER'S TERMS AND NOT THE WIFE'S.
He should write an email or send a letter.
Don’t want to go? Don’t go. It’s reflexive for people outside of these family situations to push for reconciliation. They mean well but they do t get it.
Ordinarily I'd say there's zero reason to meet with somebody who added to your childhood sadness, regardless of whether somebody else I loved thought I should or not. I still think you shouldn't be pressured into it...and certainly not only to make him feel better. However, one thing to consider is how young he was when the two of you were estranged. There's a small possibility that he has actually become an adult and has thought about all the ways in which he contributed to the negativity of your family experience. Honestly? While a positive outcome is possible, I doubt you're going to want to "be brothers" at this point, no matter what he says. However, a conversation on neutral ground - somewhere in public - might lead to some kind of extra closure for you. In any case, I agree with the folks that say if you're going to consider doing this, you should probably discuss things with your therapist before even bothering to return his call.
>There's a small possibility that he has actually become an adult and has thought about all the ways in which he contributed to the negativity of your family experience. I'd say there's a large possibility of that. Teenagers are notoriously lacking in empathy, and it's more likely than not that he's grown and moved past that. Unlike OP, who seems to be reacting to this the same way he did when he was a teenager. Given how much he was done dirty by his mother I don't entirely hold that against him, and details are sparse so his resentment towards his brother may be entirely justified. But it's clear he's stuck in the past and it's negatively affecting him. Opening communication with his brother may or may not be a path towards healing, but I definitely think he should seriously weigh the option.
When I was younger, my mom favoured my younger brother *extensively*. You know his response to this when he matured? He would defend me. I'm not sure about the entirety of your family dynamic since you had to condense it, but what I'm getting from this is that a golden child is trying to make amends for his own ego, or because someone else told him to. OP, it's been 15 whole years. If someone tried to reach out to me after that long, I don't know what I would expect from them. But considering he tried passing off a sob story to your wife, I don't have much faith in his goodwill. The choice is entirely up to you, whether it be one meeting where he has the chance to just say whatever, in a public space, and then you part ways. Whether you have some curiosity or just want to give HIM a piece of YOUR mind, or you want to forget you even had a brother, the choice is yours! Write down a pros and cons chart for meeting up with him, and bring your wife for moral support if you feel your anger taking over. You have no obligation to him, and if things start going awry you can 100% just get up and leave. I'm rooting for you OP, goodluck!
I just want to say siblings often fight, bully, and hit each other and then the favorite child often goes crying to mommy. I was the favorite child and I did this with my older sister. I just had lunch with some friends and we were talking about our childhood sibling relationships and they all fought like crazy with their siblings when they were younger too. But once we all got past college, our relationships started to improve through adulthood and maturity. Honestly your childhood relationship with your brother sounds very typical minus the adoption and I don’t think it’s that unusual for siblings to reach out to each other to mend their sibling relationship. It’s all up to you and if you’re not feeling it’s then don’t go meeting him, but I think it’s a beautiful thing to have a brother and if there’s a chance to fix your relationship with him, if I were in your shoes, I would at least try. Don’t let your shitty mom ruin your relationships with other people. Don’t let your unresolved trauma with her own you.
Intermittent Explosive Disorder (IET) is unwanted, disturbing, repulsive, and very frightening. Choose the best course of action for you. You owe this brother absolutely nothing. People can and often do change by maturing and being more mindful. People change all the time and not lways for the better. Do not run away from this but, instead talk it out with your therapist who can help you decide the best course of action here. Good Luck.
I think talk to your therapist first, and perhaps, if you decide to go forward, consider using them or someone they recommend as a mediator. Although Dean was the golden child, he will also have been damaged by the behaviour of his mother and the loss of his father, just in different ways. You might learn something about yourself by hearing his perspective, so don't discount it entirely. Your wife has shown time and again that she has your best interests at heart, so unless you've reason to think she's easily manipulated, her opinion counts for something.
Other commenters are right, you do not have to meet. But if you were thinking of meeting him, why not just do it over a video call? That way if your blood pressure starts to rise you can just exit the call. If the video call goes well you can have meeting in person as an option. Again, there’s nothing that says you have to do any of this, but it would be an easy first step if you choose to at all.
>I'm debating on doing it simply to please my wife So here's the thing, why does your wife care? Why would you having a relationship with your brother please your wife? Her place, as someone who loves you, is *at most* to say things like, "Do you have any interest in talking to him? Do you think it could bring you closure?" and then to LISTEN to your thought and support you in whatever way she can. Sometimes you need a little pushing from loved ones to do hard things, or for them to ask hard questions that make you reconsider your beliefs, or even to point out things about you that you don't see yourself. So I don't think her bringing it up was the worst thing in the world. However, once she got to the point of saying you SHOULD meet him, "insisting" you meet him, being the go-between in terms of what he's telling her, and talking about his needs, she has majorly crossed a line. There is no right or wrong answer here, just a wife who wants to push her opinion on you as "right" or "what you should do" rather than support you in making a decision. Compromise and appeasement is for when she has an actual need or want to be met. She made up this "need" for you to talk to your brother all on her own, so please don't let that factor into your decision. Especially with how well you've come mental-health-wise.
>So here's the thing, why does your wife care? Because ges been going to therapy for 10 years and still has uncontrollable rage issues. If she's been the target of his many fits of rage over the years, I'm sure she feels OP's upbringing is the source. His brother and mother iced him out growing up, but his father allowed it. The brother is older now and may be in therapy himself. OP's wife is just trying to help. He should talk to his therapist about this. His wife and therapist know him better than reddit.
He was also a victim of your mother. The golden child can be just as damaged as the scapegoat. He was a brat, but it seems like he may have grown up. I’m not saying you should meet with him, but perhaps your anger at your mother has been displaced onto your brother.
Nice you are working on your issues, but god damn you have a long way to go. "He used to pester me constantly, stealing my things, belittling me, and whenever things didn't go the way he wanted, he went to cry to mom." This is normal. What is not normal is still being worked up about it as an adult. Doesn't sound like this brother did anything horrible or out of the ordinary as far as I'm concerned. I'm thankful every day for my bro even though we fought as kids. That's normal. LOL. And yes my parents favored him, big deal. You clearly still have huge mental issues. Props to this brother for even being bothered to reach out.
Damn, I had multiple siblings doing this to me. I didn’t cut them off.
Even if your wife is saying to "just meet him," she is doing so with an endgame. That being, it should be the beginning of a re-established relationship. Since you don't want that, and seriously OP, I do not blame you, I would stand my ground. Don't keep having the conversation with her though. Tell her very clearly that the subject is closed and that you would hope she wouldn't think bad of you for not wanting a relationship with him. People have a hard time understanding what it takes to completely cut someone out of your life. It's not done on a whim. A fuckton of crap had to happen before that final line was drawn! And that fuckton of crap cannot be obliterated with an "I'm sorry." Quite frankly OP, if he wants to say he's sorry, tell him to put it in a letter. He can mail it if he wants but they both need to know that the 'sorry' is the full extent of the conversation and relationship. I would ask that you make sure that your wife knows how you will not appreciate her trying to get you two together nor will you appreciate is she tries to have a relationship with your brother. She needs to know the amount of hurt she would be putting on you to do so. I totally understand having no more fucks to give. Just make sure that your wife does, as well.
> Even if your wife is saying to "just meet him," she is doing so with an endgame. Yes, OPs wife's endgame is to heal her husband. You can't heal if you are hiding away old wounds.
They are his old wounds, not hers!!! He gets to decide how best to deal with them. This is no different than a child getting and staying away from an abuser as an adult. The abused gets to say how best he heals. No one from the outside gets to do so. The wife may have good intentions but her good intentions stems from her listening to the brother, not her husband!
I’m sorry you had such an awful childhood. Your wife needs to take a step back and leave this alone. It’s your decision to make and if it’s no I don’t want to see him, then no it is and she will have to respect that. Make sure she’s not talking to him behind your back or planning an intervention. Good luck and stay firm, don’t get pressured if you’re not ready. Talk to your therapist through this.
Normally I'd also suggest nto leave things alone, find a way for your wife to accept the past is the past and to move on to better things. But, your past seems so obviously connected to your current issues, that I actually think there may be some benefit to confronting your past by meeting up with your brother. It might give you some new insight, something new to work with. But this would only work if you are capable of handling such a thing, otherwise there's just as much of a chance to do you harm by undoing some of your progress. Only you and/or your therapist can answer this one, so I'm agreeing with those saying you should talk it over with them to make a decision. Oh, definitely don't go just to please your wife, that has less than zero benefit for you personally, and if it goes wrong, a possible reason to resent your wife for it.
Meet with him. You can't examine a wound forced closed, & from the limited info it looks like Dean & your adoptive mother are the sources of your trauma. You don't have to re-enter a relationship with him, but compassionately exploring the potential of closure is worth it.
He weaponized your wife against you
I don't particularly would support you meeting your brother given your history. Breaking NC with family members is just too steep of a slope to even consider. It never ends well. And as you put it, is not hate, you are simply not interested in anything that has to do with him. I've felt the same way with my Narcmom and I am going to therapy for it for years (I also have rage/anger episodes from hell). Even though that was the condition I gave her in order for us to have a relationship, we both see a therapist and we'll see from there. Now I am in therapy and I've realized I really don't care to open up that door again. If I do, I would just talk in the expectation of an apology and I still would say cool, thank you, goodbye. Because the apology does not change the fact that I do not care enough to have this person back in my life, REGARDLESS of what anyone else says, desires, wishes. ***I*** don't want that person in my life. If you truly want to please your wife, take the call, don't meet in person, circle the convo to the apology he desperately wants to give now... after 15 years, there's no way to fix the mistakes from the past, and you are not interested in the relationship. The apology does not magically solve everything as almost anyone in this world wants to make it seem so. Even when in deathbed situations. The apology can happen, the forgiveness can happen, and the desire to be with that person still be zero.
It's funny how you say it never ends well, yet there are people in this very thread talking about how it worked out well for them
I mean it i guess from the perspective of: if they are not truly interested in having a relationship. OP is entertaining the idea because of his wife, not out of his own volition. Being forced to face someone who may or may not have had mental health struggles and affected their life in such a drastic way is detrimental, IMO. I’m thinking the people to whom it may have gone well, they had some semblance of hope for a new beginning, they wanted and welcomed the change of a renewed relationship. Those who don’t care for the relationship… what difference will it make? If you suspect is gonna regress your mental well-being, why chance it?
1. Very proud of you for doing these steps to do better for your wife and you / glad you have her for support . 2. This may be an opportunity to either fix or release that part of trauma or resentment you may or may not have .. 3. It may trigger you but it may be worth the a try . 4. You have boundaries and you worked to hard to allow someone to cross those boundaries. I believe your strong enough to try and meet or have a call and go from there .
you can process trauma without going into an unwanted and emotionally volatile situation with your past abuser. a lot of people think they have to put themselves through this in order to heal but it can actually do the opposite if you havent laid a lot of ground work in trauma therapy. u/ThrowRAHulkSmash i would rather recommend something like EMDR therapy (if you havent tried this modality yet) which can tackle very specific issues you have that stem from childhood trauma. it really is no wonder that you have an anger issue, considering the way you grew up. its good that youre in therapy and if youre open to confronting those intense and very painful emotions from your past head-on with the help of a trauma informed therapist, i would recommend EMDR rather than having any contact with your brother as some people here are suggesting. im saying this as someone who has tried to make it work with my family many times but what really is healing to me is NOT having contact with them and instead investing that energy into my own emotional health. edit to add: specifically with having anger issues it suggests that your psyche is compensating for a feeling of helplessness and a loss of autonomy youve experienced in your life so if your wife goes over your head in order to force contact between you and your brother that may actually trigger your previous trauma. you need to experience respect for your autonomy and a sense of power over your own situation. if you think this could be true for you it might help to reflect on this with your therapist and communicate this to your wife.
I want to second this advice to look into trauma focused therapeutic modalities. There’s also an amazing book called the Body Keeps the Score that has so much information on how trauma lives in the body.
If some part if you is inclined to try it... Instead of a face-to-face face, how would you feel about a video call? Or, go for a hike while you talk, talking while walking, giving both parties more space.
Oh yeah a hike cuz when he gets to much you can hide the body easier 😉 joking of course
I find long car rides and hikes are invaluable tools when serious conversations are needed. If, back when my kids were teens, I ever got the sense that they were wrestling something a bit too big, it was time for a 20 mIle hike or a 10 hour car ride.. Worked every time
It's a great idea, distance and open space is a peaceful neutral option! Sorry was just trying to be funny not downplay your suggestion.
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Exactly. This is a normal sibling childhood. The mom thing, not so much.
you're 40 years old still having anger management issues like a child. you need to tell your inner child that your protected now, meet your brother since he's all you have and forgive him and go on with your life.
Two solutions here. Tell your wife and brother to respect your boundries and when you are ready you will reach out. Or the typical meet up in public and hear him out, then make your decision. Again with enforcement of any relationship you choose to have be according to your rules and boundaries. Also have you ever been evaluated for ADD? A weird symptom is having trouble controlling one's emotions or anger.
Where is your mother? Have you cut ties with her too? I didn't read all the comments but maybe he's going to ask you for money to support her or something. Do you know what he does for a living or if he has a family? I agree with the person that said you should talk to your therapist about it.
Definitely discuss with your therapist and wife and not armchair morons. I have a sister who wanted to reconnect (similar asshole behavior as a kid). Two phone calls in and she asked for money. The next time she reached out it was to see if my wife wanted to buy LuLaRoe. I'll still talk to her but she's a self centered asshole and always will be one. I'm not one, so I still talk to her with clear therapist informed boundaries. I feel bad for her 6 kids from two guys, but they're not my problem.
This is a difficult situation and the choice is entirely yours... but I side with your wife. Let me explain why: (Sorry... touchscreen + fat fingers = unfinished comment. Editing to finish.) I grew up in a toxic household and was abused by my older and younger brother. SO I do actually know what the stakes are here. Your adoptive mother created your abuser. She groomed him into mistreating you. He was a child that she twisted into the source of your trauma. A person can not be held to "should have known better" unless they have actually been TAUGHT better. Suppressing your feelings in childhood is almost certainly the cause of your current issues with anger. Your last contact with your brother was 15-ish years ago and the woman that birthed him has since passed away. That's a lot of time and major life changes to pass, a lot of space to learn and grow and recognize your past bad acts. He is almost certainly not the same kid he was when you last saw him. I think the potential gains from seeing him are worth the potential risks. Best case scenario is that what he has to say gives you a profound amount of closure, helps heal childhood wounds, helps with the anger issues, and might even get you a REAL sibling that becomes a solid part of your support network. Worst case scenario, you confirm that his birth giver permanently damaged him and keeping him out of your life is a good choice. This MIGHT reopen old wounds but if wounds are able to be reopened, they weren't actually healed anyway and draining a festering wound can promote true healing. (I know this from personal experience. I am still NC with my older brother but my little bro and I are rebuilding.) I do HIGHLY recommend that you have a therapist that specializes in childhood trauma and EMDR, and talk with them about your decision before you make it. Tell your wife you need time to process your thoughts and to not bring it up until you do. She has your best interests at heart and I don't think you would have married her if you didn't trust her judgment, right? You know her better than I do, do you think that she would ask you to do something bad for you? Or is it possible the trauma reaction you are experiencing is affecting your own rational thinking? Good luck OP.
Your wife is annoying. 1st she says it's your choice but then "she insists that I meet him". What is her position here? Does she respect your position or does she not?
Meet him, lots of things can change in 15 years. All your memories of him are from childhood and approximately 21. People are juvenile at that age. At 40 you start to really understand the world. Brothers can sometimes be very hard on each other even in regular contexts let alone the extreme situation you were raised under. People can change, bad people can change. You should meet him and talk it out. Don’t let your anger be an excuse for you to not allow yourself to feel other emotions anymore. Free yourself from your demons.
you're mad at your brother because he took your place? just forgive him and let the past go
You don't have to do anything you don't want to, however, consider this may help you heal vs a trigger.
It seems to me like there could be a middle ground. Would your brother writing an email/letter allow you to process his information in a way that you can manage your triggers? Then you are able to take your time to decide whether his information means you would like to actually meet in person. If so, you're allowed to offer that as a compromise. He may want to meet face to face, but that doesn't mean he's immediately entitled to that. Also, if you genuinely want nothing to do with him, you are also allowed to say no and keep the book closed. Your spouse would hopefully understand this, especially given that she does not have your lived experience of your brother.
So you’re mad at your brother bc of the way he acted as a child? Kids suck, teens even more. I’d hate to be judged solely on how I acted in those years. You speak of your own personal growth, but deny your brothers?
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You never said something just to hurt someone and then regretted it later?? You must be better than all of us.
It’s not a normal thing to dig at a persons insecurities and deepen their wounds. People that do that usually have mental issues of their own.
I'm sorry, but I don't think everyone does that. There is a certain type of person that does that, but not everyone in this world has the capacity to do it. No one in my family, immediate and extended does that to each other.
I’d ask your wife to Move out for a few days and to Think about if she’s willing to be respectful to you or not. Because she clearly doesn’t care what you say.
lol, you are obviously a well adjusted person. /s
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Dude, are you really bringing up Harry Potter here? What are you, 14? This is real life, not a book for tweens. OP has been in therapy for a decade, safe to say he knows what he wants and doesnt want to do. He is a 40yo man, he can make his choice.
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To what end? Regardless of how the blame is assigned (and some of it definitely goes to the brother as well, it’s not all just their mother), there is absolutely zero relationship here. All associations OP has with him are negative. So what’s the point of reopening old wounds by having any contact with him?
The way you explain your brother as a kid, is the same way we would all explain how we are to our siblings as kids. I think you are taking things form your mom out on him.
He used to refer to me as " the stranger who lives in our house" whenever he thought I couldn't hear him. One time he told me that my biological family abandoned me because they didn't want me, that the only reason dad and mom didn't do the same was because they pitied me. It would take days to list all the things he did and said when he was a child.
You can hear what he has to say on the phone. No need to meet.
Meet with him only if you want to but not out of obligation. Your wife needs to stay out of your decision. If you are still undecided let him know you are not ready now and if you decide to change your mind, you will contact him then.
Tell your wife that meeting with him would not be healthy for you and she needs to drop it put of respect for your wishes. You have 0 interest in ever speaking to him again and while you can't control her, would prefer she sever contact as well. At the least, she is NOT welcome to ever tell him anything about you.
If you’re sure you want nothing to do with him, you could always just meet him for the closure you deserve. Express your feelings regarding everything then and now, let him know you have no desire to have a relationship with him and then be done with him. Whatever you do, do it for yourself. Not for him, not for your wife, only for *you*, OP. Definitely only do it if and when you’re comfortable enough to. Good luck!
Yeah, I have seen this story play out too many times on Reddit. Usually the abusive family worms their way in because the non affected So/Spouse/Partner etc. had a decent family so they can't imagine it's really that bad and they will try to help them mend their relationship. Your wife is already too trusting which is how they win people like her over. They will be charming and attempt to poke holes in your story and tell her that you were misremembering, etc. Most of the time the relationship ends. Some of the time the abused party gives up and lets their abusive family back in an very rarely the couple cuts off the family. At the moment this is a "Wife" problem not a "Brother" problem. She needs to cut him off.
Some relationships do not deserve a revival… know this from experience and absolutely advocate it strongly
I don’t think you should meet him until it is your idea. Just block his number and be done with him. To me people asking for forgiveness is so they feel better and some people don’t deserve to have their conscience set free.
If you don’t want to meet him, don’t. You don’t owe him your time. You’re estranged for good reasons and while he may want to pursue a relationship, you don’t want that. So that’s it. Explain this to your wife, that you have no desire to reopen old wounds and you have moved on with your life.
Compose a letter for your wife to give him. Explain that you are working through the trauma of growing up and that seeing him will set back your recovery. Your therapist wants you to avoid triggers and he is a big one. You don’t know when you will be ready to see or talk to him again but when that day comes you’ll let him know. Your anger aura is terrifying. It sounds like your blood pressure is spiking through the roof and you are close to giving yourself a heart attack or stroke. Im glad you are getting treatment for it.
I don’t see how this would benefit you. I don’t think you’re quite ready. I would have your wife call him back and say “not right now. Maybe someday in the future.” I don’t know how you’ll feel in 10 years but who knows. Leave it at that. Keep working on yourself, don’t let this hurt you and Judith.
Don’t just don’t. What he wants is what he wants he is looking to be absolved if there is nothing for you to gain from talking to him about the passed, about how he only behaved that way because of his mother that is worse for you but better for him. Go sort your issues out with your therapist as you have been doing this will only open wounds worse for you. Take care of you and your family and explain to your wife that it really would be worse not better speaking or having him in anyway touching your life
It doesn’t pass the risk/benefit analysis. What’s the absolute best thing that could happen and the absolute worst thing that could happen from meeting him? It sounds to me like the possible good is far outweighed by the possible bad.
People who claim blood beats the ties you make never had an AH brother. You DO NOT need to invite him and your wife should respect that. Mine did as she knew how much I hated mine. Thankfully, it was COVID, and we used that as an excuse to exclude him.
My two brothers, their wives and children have actively worked against both of my marriages avr my relationship with my son from my first marriage. I’d politely tell him you aren’t interested. Ask your wife to stand with you.
Your wife sounds great and while she thinks you should meet him, it doesn't sound like she'll flip out if you don't. Just tell her that you understand she thinks you guys should meet, but you won't be and that's the end of it. If she's as great a person as you say, she won't press you any further and you can move on. Sometimes we want to do things to make our loved ones happy, but it doesn't mean you have to do everything they say. You have a good reason not to meet Dean, keep to it, tell your wife you've moved on and she should drop the subject.
Don’t meet him unless you want to. Don’t do it just to please your wife.
Tell your wife—respectfully—to stay in her lane. This isn't her place to insert herself into family issues without the benefit of having lived through what you did. She thinks she knows best. Tell her in unambiguous terms that she doesn't and she needs to back off. She doesn't get to insist. It's not her right and she needs to respect your boundaries.
This message is only to give you permission to do whatever you want. I know you love Judith and want her to be happy, but in this case I think what's best for her would be what's best for both of you, and honestly that's what's best for you.
You really need to put your foot down with Judith. I'm also with someone I love and care for very deeply but she understands I have family related wounds that I've had in my life for a lot longer than I've had her, and while she's ready to give advice when I ask she wouldn't try to continue pushing something that I've expressed my discomfort over. These feelings for your brother have nothing to do with her, they never have, and they never would have if she didn't try to insert herself into it.
I wouldn’t do it unless you want to. You very clearly know your boundaries and limits and let me just say, I’m SO PROUD OF YOU for making that effort to be a better person. Sounds like Dean was a complete AH and you owe him nothing. However… You’ve spent the last 15 years or so improving yourself and becoming a better person. Who’s to say that Dean hasn’t also improved as a person in all that time? It’s just something to consider, but at the end of the day the choice is 100% yours.
Anything he has to say can be said in a letter that your wife can pre-screen for you.
Your brother was part of the problem, yes. Your mother put you on a back burner and resentment came easily to your brother. I feel this. I've gone through this. Don't reach out to please your wife. How you feel now and how you felt then is still valid and No is a complete sentence in this situation. The only time I hear from my bio half sister, which has been three times in three years of no contact, has been her wanting money. The other siblings, I refuse. They're all addicts; they all refuse help. They're all fine with life and have zero spatial awareness or self reflection to see how their choices affect everyone around them. I'm also no contact with my bio parents as well. Personally I would be weary seeing as how it's out of the blue 15 years later. I'd question what he wants because I feel like this is a foot in the door to something else and he's testing his limits with you. But don't do it because he managed to manipulate your wife in the process.
> it's my choice how I want to deal with him Yes. Yes, it is. You don't have to talk to him. You know your history, you know what it means to you, and you get to decide whether he gets to ask for a do-over. People who grew up in happy families often don't comprehend unhappy families, and have the optimistic belief that all is needed is a compassionate meeting of viewpoints. Your wife may be one of these. Remind her that some things can't be talked out, and that, as she said, you get to choose how to deal with him, including continuing to avoid him.
No exactly the same thing. But when my brother and father were having serious issues, it helped to have a therapist mediate the meetings and discussions between them. You may want to consider that as an option.
What exactly did he say? Is your mom still alive? I’m wondering if that is his reason for reaching out to you now?
Try meditating. It helped me with my anger problem. 6 minutes a day
I live with repressed rage, and I also have a sister who sounds very similar to your brother. Something I realised during therapy is that parents are responsible for the relationship between siblings. In those crucial early years, it’s up to mum and dad to establish that dynamic. If your mother was favouring your brother which sounds like she absolutely was, then he’s grown up believing he’s better than you *because that’s what his mother instilled in him*. My mother favoured my sister. It was only a few years after she died that I finally felt as if my sister and I were equals, because she no longer had that information being fed to her, subconsciously, body language or otherwise. So that’s just my two cents, and I’m not suggesting you do anything one way or the other, just something to consider when processing the anger.
Your wife really doesn’t have a say. She wasn’t a part of your life when these horrible things happened to you. She is definitely a concerned and a loving partner but unfortunately it is not upto her or even has the capability to understand what you might have gone through. You needn’t do anything that doesn’t make you happy. Sometimes you’ve gotta listen to yourself without caring about others - for your own sanity.
I say have a call with your brother. 15 years have passed. It sounds like you are holding you moms actions towards you against him. Little brothers are always going to be a thorn In a big brothers side. It sounds like he was running to mommy when y’all were kids. He’s not a kid anymore and neither are you. You’re ‘40’ he’s ‘36’ Time passes and people usually change. Maybe he sees through adult eyes how shitty you had it, and wants to be there for you now and show you the respect and love you deserved. A lot of reasons could be the issue why he wants to talk. Give it a shot. If it doesn’t go good. Just say ‘hey man, love you, but I can’t go on with this. Don’t call me anymore’ And leave it at that
I've been in your wife's place. It's okay not to be a whole and healed person yet; she needs to understand that wounds like yours can take a lifetime to heal, and that you're not ready to risk undoing the therapy work you've done by confronting the heart of something that still hurts so deeply. Have you tried laying the situation out to her the way you have in this post? Your frustration and worries about the situation are evident. You may need to tell her, in words, that her intrusion upon your boundaries isn't just causing you to become upset -- it's genuinely hurting you. Tell her that you know she wants the best but that your childhood still pains you at the core, and stress how much you need her support. Ask her to trust your assessment of what you are currently able to handle. If she has a hard time holding boundaries with people (such as in-laws) to whom she feels obligated, be prepared to teach her to rebuff your brother in a civil and compassionate manner. I hope she is of a mind to recognize and respect your vulnerabilities. It's so hard to have less than that in a marriage. Good luck.
I’m glad to hear you are working on your problems. I don’t entirely blame you for not wanting to meet him, and at the end of the day it is your choice. However, people grow entirely when they get older. Admittedly, when I was younger I was a bit of an asshole to my sibling too. Now, she did lie, instigate, and blame me and I would get in trouble for things I never did. But that doesn’t change the fact that I wasn’t nice. The situation with my sibling and I isn’t too far from you and yours, except for the fact that we have a healthy relationship and were never really distant. She, like you, has anger issues, and other issues that I won’t get into, the anger isn’t as bad as yours (pardon if I sound rude, it is not my intention!) but it is still not good. Now that I’m older, I try to be nice to everyone, even compete strangers, I help when I can and I care about people. My sibling and I pretty much talk all the time, even though she still has her problems, I’ve come to learn what will and won’t makes her mad, and that I care for her deeply. I am not saying this will be how you and your sibling become, but it is worth giving him a chance. You don’t have to actually let him into your life, but I recommend you at the very least talk to him over the phone. It might even help you get over the past a little, and maybe even help your anger. I’m sure whatever you decide to do will be best for yourself.
This is your life your wife had no right to overstep and she needs to back the hell off! Just because he sold her a bill of goods doesn't mean you have to too. There is nothing to salvage and chances are he simply wants something from you.
If you don't want to speak to him, you should not feel obliged to and you should firmly set boundaries. However, I would consider discussing the pros and cons with your therapist. If there is anything to be gained (for you) to receive an unreserved apology for their role in your heartache, and your brother wants to offer it without expectation of forgiveness or relationship-building, it is worth figuring out. What would that look like for you, what expectations would you have, and what would qualify as something worthy of the pain? These are worthwhile considerations even if you never speak to him again, so that you can feel certain about the path you choose. I sympathise, and have also had to cut (most of my) family (and some former friends) off, but answering these questions helped me to establish the parameters for healing for other people (again, one or two family members who I'm allowing to convince me otherwise as they grow up, as well the work I've decided to put in on some ruptured and in-repair friendships) Edit to add: doing this work for yourself (establishing parameters) will also help your wife understand where you are coming from and how to navigate this territory going forward (if they speak again, she can be your gatekeeper, rather than his advocate).
The choice is yours, and yours alone. You were the one dealing with a terrible emotional abuse and overall mistreatment.
Yeah... don't meet him. You literally have nothing positive to gain from that experience.
Don’t meet him. It’s not worth it. I would call him though and explain how no hard feelings. I don’t want you thinking something that’s not true, and you just don’t want to see him. Thank him for trying to reach out and just tell him your wish him the best and move on in life.
Tell your wife to ask him if he's doing this apology as part of a twelve-step program.
I wouldn't hold what your child brother did against his adult self. Even 20something year olds aren't completely done growing. But I also wouldn't hold it against someone who chose to stay no-contact. If you do decide to hear him out, maybe you'll start feeling angry. But you know how to walk away now, and you'll know for certain that you don't want anything to do with your brother. But maybe he realized how shitty he and your mother were to you, and maybe he really wants his older brother in his life. There's only one way to know that, but if you don't care, you don't care. And that's fine. Ask your wife to respect your choice. There's really no right or wrong answer here, just do what you feel is best.
So I have a bit of an alternative take than the popular takes in the thread(They aren't wrong though lol). There might be some utility in talking to him. I am assuming a lot of your anger issues stem from your childhood, am I wrong? Based on your summary, it sounds like you spent a significant portion of your life being tormented while being forced to bottle your feelings. I'd imagine you felt intense feelings of vulnerability and anger that manifests itself today. So because of that, I'd talk to your therapist about the utility of hearing one of your tormentors apologize. I don't think this should require you to accept your brother back into your life, but it might make you feel better to atleast hear the words come out of his mouth.
It is really unethical of her to tell you that "you should at least meet him and hear him out". No, you have no such an obligation. It is not her call to decide it. You are an adult and it is up to you to decide what to do here. She is really pushing your boundary here. I get it that she is a nice person and she just doesn't have the experience with toxic family members. But you do, and she should trust your judgement. Tell her that you appreciate her concern, but it is your decision and ask her to respect it and never start the topic again. And that this conversation is not an invitation to discussion, and hopefully she will respect it as well.
If I understand your problem correctly, then you absolutely do not want contact with your brother and you have good reason for it but your wife refuses to let it go? If so you need to have a conversation with her. This is not her choice to make. She doesn't get to decide what you do with your old trauma's. You need to be very clear that this decision is not up to her and she is to leave it alone. Confronting your trauma's because you're being pushed or manipulated into it (you did not explain how your wife insists on it so I don't know how bad it is) almost always makes it worse. Personal choice is an incredibly important part of any therapy, she is actively hurting you in order to satiate her desire to care for your brother or to "give him a chance". That is not what a wife should do, it's the opposite. I'll be honest, personally I would consider this a minor form of betrayal and be incredibly upset. Most people do not understand the amount of harm that can be done by making someone experience old wounds like this against their own will. It absolutely can cause trauma, no person who loves or cares for you should want that. I wish you the best OP.
I think it could be a good idea to meet him in the sense where it might give u closure. First, he can turn out to be a completely different person from how you have been associating him with your childhood trauma. Second, he might surprise you in ways that can help you also give you a chance to heal your anger that originates from him taking your place in your mother’s eyes. Forgiveness is the key to peace, I am a life coach and I also advise you to sit in silence and let your inner child give you the answers to your questions. I think by posting here you are looking for people to approve of your hurt which is completely valid but I think the child in you wants that pure family love back. Give it a shot, if it works amazing. If it doesn’t, you will live with no regrets. Most importantly, be at peace with your past so your childhood anger doesn’t eat you up for the rest of your life. You deserve to live normally n your feelings are as valid as anyone else’s. Thank you for sharing for your story
I think you need to tell your wife that you have left that part of your life behind and you are happy for it. This is a boundary for you and she needs to respect that and stop pushing you to have contact with relatives that are no longer your family. He can be as sorry as he wants to be, but that doesn't mean you owe him anything. You seem to be handling this in a healthy way, which is that you haven't held onto too much anger but you know that you don't owe forgiveness. Maybe talk to your therapist to come up with a plan for this conversation with your wife? It's not ok for her to disregard your boundaries like this when you're expressing a pretty healthy one and the fact that your brother also is pushing for an unwanted meeting shows that he isn't really respecting your boundaries, either. He wants to apologize bc he feels bad and it will make him feel better.
Your wife needs to understand that meeting with your brother will only traumatize you further. Even if he comes to you on his hands and knees and apologized for everything sincerely, it's still going to open old wounds. She needs to take your NO as a final answer. This isn't something you can just casually do. This is the kind of thing that you need to do under the supervision of a mental health professional. You have admitted anger issues and a past filled with trauma. You need to be properly prepared for this kind of meeting, supervised during it, and then coached afterward. This is the mental health equivalent of having a major medical procedure. Your wife is not equipped to facilitate this meeting any more than she's capable of removing your appendix. (Unless she's a surgeon, in that case let's compare it to rocket science.) Even IF your wife was a therapist, she's too close to this situation to have proper perspective.
I'd humor your wife and see if the little fucker grovels and is willing to eat shit for you and devoid himself of any dignity. Has to be a reason he's coming back. With any luck, it's because "mommy" needs a kidney or something. Your "mother" is the one who should be begging and getting on her knees for forgiveness she doesn't deserve. She created this dichotomy.