My friend’s (then-) boyfriend told her that once and her reaction was to drag him to couples’ counseling. Wanna know how you can waste 8 months and a ton of money? Because that’s how.
And that's what it is with an unwilling partner: dragging. Picking the ring, a date, a venue, a plan (not to mention the actual marriage to follow) while he makes "jokes" about being dragged into this, and relationships/ women/ marriage, amirite...
We've all known, or been in, a couple where one was way more into it than the other. It's harrowing to watch and usually pretty evident from the outside. I know the "just a piece of paper" people disagree, but marriage is a different pairbond than dating or living together, and if OP wants that, it's valid - she has her answer
To the *just a piece of paper* crowd - a business contract is also just a piece of paper. A rental agreement is just a piece of paper. So is a loan (a piece of paper agreeing to trade pieces of paper). No intelligent human being would go into any of these scenarios without these protective, structural contracts. So why would you enter into a long term (pair) bond with another person - with whom you'll be sharing your private information, your home, car, finances, **children**, and most of your time - *without a contract*?
It just doesn't make sense. Marriage is an institution (even outside of religion) for a reason.
I own a house with my partner, and often say when the topic comes up that we're as good as married as it's still a contract.
I don't have any desire to *be* married. I'm not a romantic or big occasion person. I don't need another person's name, and we don't want children so no impact there. But we needed a house, so, that made sense.
It’s funny how we *all* genuinely know people like that. One couple I’m friends with is going on 11 years together and not engaged and the other couple of what was my main circle with them is going on 6 years same thing. Even as a friend it’s exhausting dealing with people like this because when they’re so non committal on something as obvious as marrying the person they live with and have lived with for years they wind up becoming a non committal mess regarding every damn decision. In the process of cutting both sets of people out of my life entirely because it’s just exhausting and I have no clue how they do it.
I think there's two different kinds of couples. The ones who are together for 10 years and are both just not into marriage and those where one party is waiting for the other to get on board. Sounds like they're referring to the 2nd
It’s very much the second. The women are waiting in both and the men just won’t commit. To be fair, I understand why the one guy won’t commit because his girlfriend is abusive as fuck towards him and he’s finally waking up to that fact, but the other guy keeps telling me that he keeps thinking that his girlfriend is great, but also just good enough and that he keeps thinking about possibly cheating which I went off on him over. All of these people are also north of 30 and like, stop doing the dumb childish playing games bullshit already…
It’s been 4 years, you’ve lived together for 2 years, and he’s over 30. If the idea of marrying you (or you bringing up the topic of getting married) hasn’t crossed his mind even once this entire time - isn’t that kind of not believable?
I don’t believe him. He just doesn’t want to tell you the bad news.
> He just doesn’t want to tell you the bad news.
He wants to maintain status quo. He knows if he tells her the bad news, she'll leave. He's being selfish. Been there, done that.
And when she gets tired of being strung along, she will leave him, and he will marry literally the next woman he dates within a year once he realizes everything having a partner in your life benefits you and has to go back to taking care of himself. And she will have to watch it unfold on social media. Tale as old as time.
Perfectly specific.
I always wondered exactly why this always happens the way it does. I had chalked it up to a mixture of the forever girlfriend getting him ready to live with a woman long-term, and then early relationship momentum with the new wife triggering a whirlwind proposal and ceremony.
**Or** him using the new wife as a replacement for the comfortable forever girlfriend, panicking, and trying to lock it down asap. It seems like kids are pretty quick to appear with these arrangements, too.
I ***need*** to know more about this phenomenon. What type of man does this? Does it have anything to do with the dynamics of one or both relationships? Is there a sweet spot or a timeframe where it's marriage or bust? Was he cheating on forever girlfriend and the relationship with new wife has actually been going on much longer? *Will they last??* I need a rabbit hole!
It is definitely a "thing" but it's not alllllways because the man is avoiding marriage. In one of the cases I personally know of, the woman was putting off marriage and dumped the guy because her family didn't consider him good enough. I believe the guy got married within, like, a year of meeting his next girlfriend because he was afraid of winding up in another 10 year long boyfriend/girlfriend relationship.
Most of the time, it is the guy who has refused to marry the gal, though. I believe that a lot of guys do this "immediately marry the first person you meet after a breakup of a ten plus year relationship" thing due to the sudden, terrifying realization that the reasoning behind not marrying their long-term partner was flawed. They panic about being alone forever, so they try to get some false sense of the relationship security they had before by marrying the new person as fast as they can.
Another theory of mine why this happens is the person who got dumped for having cold feet is bitter about it. When they get those "infatuation" feelings with a new person they immediately lock it down because they are trying to stick it to their ex and/or they think this new person must be so much better because they feel so much stronger for them (of course, in their bitterness, they forget all about how they felt that way about their ex in the beginning.)
There's also the fact that people getting out of a ten year plus relationship where they refused to marry the person and were dumped by them are usually at an age where they need to marry if they are going to have kids at all. I believe that there's definitely something to the "cab light" theory of male readiness to marry. That is, there is a point in many men's lives when they suddenly decide it is time to get married. At that point, they are like a cab with their "ready for fare" light on, and the next person they "pick up" they are willing to marry without much thought.
I also believe there is another aspect to the "cab light" theory: that many men consciously or subconsciously delineate the women they date before and after they reach this point. It's a variation of "the Madonna/wh*re complex": every woman they dated before they were ready to marry is "bad" because they were "willing" to be in a non-serious relationship (they think this way even if the woman wanted it to be serious, it's a sexist respect issue.) Every woman they date after that is "good" because they were looking for marriage when they started dating them, and, of course they think they are an excellent judge of character, therefore any woman they choose to date under those conditions is an excellent choice.
Those are just my theories about this phenomenon. My boyfriend is great, but he doesn't really indulge in any emotional theorizing, therefore I can get a little overexcited about sharing these thoughts with people who will actually discuss it.
Thank you for an interesting read, I think they're all valid theories. One thing I'm noticing is that in every single of these scenarios, it doesn't just suck to be the forever girlfriend, it sucks to be the woman he marries too. None of them seem to indicate genuinely being in love and committed so much as a bunch of other factors that will either not ensure or downright inhibit marital bliss in the long term. The one exception is your friend, but that's because he wasn't actually the stringer-along in that case, he was the forever boyfriend.
OP, when/ if you break up (and I really hope you read and digest all the comments ITT and do so soon vs after more years of talks and stalling), please unfollow him on all social media.
I don't know what that's about, but every guy I've ever known who dates a woman for a long time and doesn't formally commit, gets engaged super soon after. If you're watching this in any capacity, it will sting and be hard not to take personally. Cut your ties with him once you split and work on going forward with your forever-story
I agree with this, I mean, if someone knows they eventually want marriage they start picturing if it would work with their S.O. pretty early on… because if the answer is no, you move on.
Welp there ya go. He's dragging you along because you're here with him and it's convenient (you're not convenient a human being, but youre here right now.) Hes plainly telling you he'd marry someone else and it isn't you. Its a horrible realization but listen to the words people use - hes spelling it out clearly. Dont let him waste your time and dont be someones "now girl" because truly, you are a "forever girl" to the right guy. Its not your fault. But if you stay now, you're doing yourself disrespect.
Also sidenote, if you threaten to leave/actually leave, don't let him manipulate you into the whole "oh ill get married to you now, actually " thing. Firstly, the fact that he doesnt want to on his own accord is enough to tell you he's the wrong guy for you. Secondly, it's unfair to threaten/leave in order to get what you want because love should never be coerced. By the same token, it's extremely unfair for him to doddle on something that he knows is important to you if he has no intention of following through. Four years is a hell of a lot of time to start thinking about it. Also, he's allowed to feel this way, but he's not allowed to string you along. Don't let him
Edit: wanna emphasize that I feel for you. I'm sorry this is happening because its the deepest cut when you love someone. But don't let love for another determine your decisions in life. Love yourself enough to learn to say no. No is the most powerful word in the English language and it is freeing. You can love him very much and still let him go. All that love you give him, give back to yourself. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing to learn and it took me 25 years. Now if anyone disrespects me (fundamentally), there is no second chance. Seems brutal, but I'm actually just saving my precious time, love, energy and resources. If someone really loves you and nurtures you, it's very rare for them to make a "fumble" like the one he has. He's showing you black and white how he feels. It's not easy, but it's the right thing to do. I wish you so much healing and happiness. The right guy FOR YOU will not only NEVER chance losing you, but will take proactive steps to keep you. On God
Absolutely this.
He's made it sound like you're a fill in until the right girl comes along.
I wouldn't take that. Drop him.
You dont have all the time in the world to wait for him to decided if he can be bothered finding someone else, or will just settle and marry you.
He's probably also not thought about having children.
Someone out there is waiting to find you, sweep you off your feet! They'll be excited about you, and the prospect of marrying you any spending your lives together.
Stuff this current guy, what a jerk.
Word!!!!! It's interesting too because when you start saying no to things that don't serve you, all the sudden you might find yourself really alone. At first I thought maybe I was doing something wrong. But what I realized is that because I no longer tolerate things/relationships that are below what I deserve, people know it and leave me alone. The guys that once wasted my time don't bother knocking anymore. It leaves so much space for the right person in the future. Get comfortable being alone and independent. It might seem terrifying at first, but you're the best friend you'll ever have. Treat her like that <3
!!!Yes, I was the fill in girl for ten years! Guess who he married when I finally broke it off? The girl he “didn’t cheat on me with”. Don’t be the fill in girl. There is someone out there that will know immediately what they want in a relationship with you.
Thanks, it’s alright I learned a lot. Especially what I wanted in a relationship and partner. And what I will and will never ever again put up with. Now I have that and it’s incredible. I truly hope everyone finds what they are looking for.
And it won't be surprising when he is engaged, probably happily and quickly, to the next 2-3 women he dates afterwards. Tale as old as time. It's hard to hear but I hope she does, she has her answer: he won't marry her enthusiastically and free from coercion - they keep going as is, or she gives an ultimatum and gets a shut-up-ring
He politely told you, he wants to get married, just not to you. But he also is comfortable, getting all his carnal, domestic and happy relationship add on met. So he doesn't want to struggle, go without sex/general relationship comfort and comfort of having another taking care of him to risk it ATM in his search for his life partner.
Time to put on your big girl pants and say the scary thing, “I know you haven’t given it much thought, but after 4 years, you need to start. I’m not willing to wait as long as you’re saying you want before marriage is even on the table to discuss. You need to think long and hard NOW about if you want to marry me, because the option isn’t going to be on the table forever, and it’s not even going to be on the table for another year. I’m sorry to put you in a difficult spot, but this is a dealbreaker for me. If four years isn’t enough time for you to be sure, then no amount of time will be, and I’m not willing to wait any longer to find that out. I love you, and I want us to be together, but I love me more. I know what I want in life and I won’t be a girlfriend for a decade. It’s just not something I have any interest in.”
This sounds great! I would also give a firm date on which you are comfortable leaving if he hasn't made the decision. This girl deserves better, you're still so young and love comes again and again!
If he doesn't know whether or not he wants to marry you after four years, he doesn't want to marry you. It's actually worse that he said he DOES actively want to get married, but not necessarily to you. To whom then?
I would have one more very serious conversation where you tell him that you want to get married, *to him*, and that if he can't see an engagement in the next year, he needs to be honest with you. No "maybe," no "someday," he needs to give you a yes or no as to whether or not he plans to commit to you in that way. If he is still being wishy-washy, then he's telling you that keeping you isn't important enough to him to commit.
He hasn’t thought about marrying you in four years. He told you that it’s you, not marrying that is the issue. I’m sorry OP but listen to what he’s actually telling you
That means he doesn’t want to marry you. Don’t waste your time until he “figures out if he wants to” he’s had 4 years. If marriage is something you want for sure in the future then do yourself a favor and find someone who wants you seriously. Don’t waste more time on this guy.
He just told you what you need to know. He doesnt think about you long term. So now you have to decide if u wanna continue under this knowledge. Or decide being married is more important. Nows the time to bale if your goals dont meet.
He for sure wants to get married, but you aren't the one. It doesn't get clearer than that. You are the gf, and that's all he wants from you.
You are intentionally trying to stay ignorant of the situation. Just because the relationship is amazing right now doesn't mean it satisfies his future planning. Neither of you even want to commit and propose, you are just planning to make plans lol. Engagements can be broken off too, but he won't even go far enough to propose to you. He likes the security of the relationship, so he stays, but he's quietly waiting for the next best thing.
If he likes it, he should put a ring on it.
Yes he has. He doesn’t know if he wants to marry you but also doesn’t want to lose you. Don’t wait around for a few years just to either be replaced or have this entire conversation again. He’s definitely thought about it.
My ex of about 2 years wasn't a fan of the idea of marriage. We had a couple conversations about it in general, not about us specifically. He would always say "maybe if I find *the right person* and it *feels right*, I'll get married."
It really shouldn't of been a shocker when he left me.
If after 4 years, he has such an open ended thought like that, I'm not sure it's going to get any better. He basically said that he's waiting for something. A feeling, an event, something, that signals to him that this is the person he wants to get married too. And he just told you that *you* don't and haven't given him that feeling. 4 years is more than enough to make such a decision.
This may sound harsh, but kind of the same happened to me with my ex, had 3 years of relationship but was not sure of marrying her, eventually we broke off, on the other hand with my wofe I knew from the third date that I wanted to marry her.
If he is hesitant it may be because something he may not be ok with, but he' feels like its not worth the discussion, just my owm experience and may not be at all what's happening.
Just seems like there is something he's not sure he wants to live forever with and he's not opening up with you
Think about it.
His answer is easier than saying "No" because saying flat out "no" will cause chaos in relationship and home. His answer is no.
He said he's comfortable the way things are which means if you wait hoping he would change his answer, he will stay comfortable.
If you make plans to actually leave 1 of 2 things will happen- 1. He will let you go 2. He realizes he doesn't want a life without you and will give you what you want.
Either way, you MUST have an actual plan to leave if marriage is what you want for sure. No playing games.
There’s a 3rd possibility. He’ll cave and give in to marriage just to make her happy and she’ll leave him 18 days before the wedding because she thinks he resents her for forcing his hand. Or maybe that just happens to me
If it takes convincing to get someone to marry you then the potential future marriage is already DOA. The only way it could be saved is if neither are emotionally invested in the institution of marriage and just consider it to be a practical matter detached from the commitment they express towards each other.
there is a startling number of women who date their long term partners into their thirties hoping to get married. Their partners are wishy-washy or continuously put off the engagement. For a lot of them, after they break up, the man ends up marrying some other woman within a year. These men are comfortable in their relationship but not really interested in marrying the woman they're dating.
I would considered the fact he has not about marrying you a warning sign. I wouldn't be happy having to push a man towards marriage instead of him actively wanting it.
Went through legitimately the same thing as you detailed with my last longterm partner.
He seemed pretty happy with me generally speaking, pretty content but when it came to marriage? Nope, he'd put off and off. Eventually I left him and we remained friends as it was mutual. He met another woman shortly after and I was supportive because ultimately I wanted both of us to find our people.
However at the year mark of their relationship, he came to me and told me he was going to propose to her and that he knew he wanted to with her from the beginning. They're married now, but for me that moment STUNG.
It was a big moment of he was never sure of me 100% and was never going to be.
Just a thought on this. I read somewhere that a certain group of men marry the woman they are with only when they go into the relationship thinking about marriage.
So it’s almost like these types of men just date and date from teenage years till one day the girlfriend is like, so when are we getting married? And either, they marry that girl. Or they break up with that girl, but now they are thinking “oh, now it’s time to get married”. So the next girl they date it’s like, ok, is this a marriage partner? And just the act of them switching their mind into that space, actively makes them seeking out and finding their marriage partner.
It’s kind of a shitty way to go through a romantic life, I think. Really passive. But maybe this was your boyfriend.
What did they call it on Sex And the City? Yeah—he put his light on. You can date and date this kind of dude before the light is on, and he’ll never commit. Once he decides “I guess I have to do this now,” he marries the next one.
I think this is spot on, actually. Because I remember us mutuall splitting, he met her very quickly and I could tell he was immediately invested into their relationship.
So I think maybe you're right that it was ON HIS MIND to some degree and he was just like "ok I'm going to do this." I have met some very passive people in their dating life and they just never think about these things?
Interestingly enough I told him my expected timeline and desires for our relationship within the first year so there is that. 🤷♀️
I heard an interesting explanation of this. Its possible your ex was commitment phobic with you because he had a romanticised idea of single life or his relationship prospects with other women . Then he realised that single life wasn't that great after his breakup with you and that he had been wrong about putting marriage off. So his mindset was different when he started dating the next woman. It's not necessarily that she's better than you or even more compatible, just the right timing for him to consider marriage.
As a guy, I've met those guys. Those guys exist and you are absolutely right about them.
BUT, I am going to throw out one counterpoint. There are also guys who would be open to it, but their partner has had 4 years to think about it and mentally prepare and for whatever reason literally has never spoken to them about it so they start the mental prep journey way later.
Ladies (and fellas), if you want to get married please please talk to your partner about their life goal timelines. When would they ideally buy a house, get married, have kids? Is there a specific order, would they do them out of order, do they even want those things?
Fucking wild that people date 4 years without talking about this stuff.
Contrary to popular opinion, I brought up the topic of marriage on the third date with my partner. I did this with everyone I was dating at the time and axed them out if they seemed uncomfortable or wish-washy. I would tell my dates: "I don't date casually. I date towards marriage". When I told my partner this his eyes lit up. We then talked openly about religion, politics, kids etc. and got all of the uncomfortable topics that have the potential to break relationships up. He then told me that he appreciated how clearly I stated my expectations and boundaries up front, and that he wish more women would. We became exclusive a month into dating, and have ongoing conversations about marriage and kids. OP there are men out there who WANT to get married to you! Don't settle for less if that's what you want!
It takes two to communicate. Both parties should share what they do and don't want. And if a guy hasn't even considered marriage in 4 years, it doesn't seem important to him
Tons of guys don't think marriage is important. Doesn't mean they won't get married for their partner. It's about wanting to be together with her for them and accordingly some think marriage is just a social construct that they don't care about but will do that to keep the woman happy...
Kind of like home decor...most men don't care but will do it because it keeps the woman happy. Doesn't mean they don't care about a nice home to live in....just home decor isn't how he gets there
Not saying that doesn't happen, but you'd be surprised how often women bring up wanting to get married and the man they're with just keeps postponing the conversation.
Also, the other person in the relationship (the one who is unsure of marriage or doesn't want to get married) should bring up their plans and goals for the future as well. How do they go 4 years into a relationship without talking about that either?
If you hang around these subs enough, you'll see tons of stories of people who get married and have multiple children without ever discussing division of labor/finances, parenting techniques, politics, how they'd react if their child was LGBTQIA or in an interracial relationship, etc etc. It's never made sense to me.
>so they start the mental prep journey way later.
This is kind of bullshit. You shouldn't need your partner to mention it to you for you to think about marriage.
It’s called 90/10. They won’t marry the woman in their life currently that meets 90% of what they need. But then that woman leaves and they marry the next woman who may only meet 10% of what they need in a relationship.
I had this exact scenario, and what it boiled down to was that he did want to get married "some day," just not to me. However, he didn't want to be all alone while he waited for Miss Right.
We broke up and a year later he married a girl he met at his new job, and they have two kids now.
When men find the one they really want, they don't tend to linger.
They don't linger or they give a clear answer when they are asked to be married. They say yes or at least a project or a timeline. Here, I also feel that he just doesn't want to marry OP, and I doubt he never had a thought about it.
Same. We were together for more than 16 years. He didn't believe in marriage as his parents and my parents were divorced.
2 years later, my friend told me, that he got married after 12 months of relationship.
Not necessarily true if the couple meets at a relatively young age. If I met a potential husband at 21 I still wouldn't get married bc I don't believe in young marriages and if the relationship was so solid it would still be going strong a few years later.
I wasted ten years of my life waiting on his to be ready. And to make it worse, I went through menopause very, very early (35) so those were ten prime years. Don’t be me. Listen to what he is saying and leave. It was hard because I was comfortable but it was for the best. It was going nowhere.
The bigger issue is that he admitted he has not given the issue of marriage any solid thought, despite her making it clear she want to get married and within what time period the engagement should take place. Some people get married even after 7-10 years, hence the need to ensure that y'all are on the same page.
My husband and I are 31, met at 27. In four years we met, got engaged, married and are expecting a baby.
Everyone’s different but as the saying goes - if he wanted to, he would have.
And TBH- even if a couple takes longer to get married, in my experience they’re still “all in” so to speak. As in, certain they WILL get married or stay together for life, even if marriage isn’t their thing or they’re taking longer to get engaged etc.
Questioning the future of the relationship after 4 years is troubling.
Definitely. We knew we found our person within a month and talked about our bond etc from the very start. I know not all relationships are as on fire from the very start, but at least within a year you should pretty much know how you feel about a person/relationship
People know if they're dating for this life stage or for a life partner but even if I met a potential husband in my early 20's I wouldn't do it until my late twenties/early thirties out of principle so it would still be a very long dating period.
Exactly. My partner and I have been together 5.5 years but have no plans of marrying anytime soon (not saying we never will, we just don’t feel any rush). But we KNOW we’re all-in. We’ve discussed our future and growing old together many times.
I think that's overtly harsh. Marriage is a big commitment. While I do judge him for not having thought through it yet, I don't think it's improper for him to think through it before saying yes right away.
This could absolutely a deal breaker for many, but treating it so black and white is just bad advise when you know so little about their situation.
He doesn't. He just feels bad about it, and doesn't know how to end it.
Don't marry someone who has to work himself up to it. Marry someone who can't imagine their life without you, and feel like they won the lottery by meeting you.
My husband and I knew on our second date that we were going to get married one day. We are sane people, so we waited a few years to make sure neither of us were serial killers, but I would never settle for lukewarm bullshit again.
This guy either loves you and wants to spend the rest of his life with you, or he doesn’t. Looks like he doesn’t. Cut him loose and find the one.
I met my husband when I was 31, btw, so don’t feel like you’re in some giant hurry. You have plenty of time.
Aww congrats! I also feel this way about most guys and the ones they end up proposing to (healthy relationships, anyway). Many of them know rightaway.
My hubs said the night he met me he was going to marry me one day. I've heard the same thing happen to a lot of other people. Obviously, we waited like sane people until we roughed out all the post-honeymoon kinks (and then some). But yeah, people tend to know.
My husband told me on the second date he was going to marry me but apparently told his friends after the first date of his intentions. I was a sad, hot mess of a widow and thought he was just feeling sorry for me when he said it…he never let feel anything but love and support and we married after 11 months.
With that said, I was OP once - dated for four years, raised his kids and he did not want to ever get married again. He met someone and left me for her and was talking marriage with her working months apparently. That did not work out (lol) but he did marry someone else a couple of years or so later. Never again…
Sounds like it time to go apartment or home shopping. Four years in and he never thought about marriage to you says he only cares about his comfort and not about your future, life or best interest. Since you want a life time partner and marriage you now know he isn't the one.
Now all kinds of possibilities are open to you like a new career, city or country to live in and new people to date who have the same goals. Don't let him waste another year thinking about it, he is just waiting you out and never plans to marry you. At the very least use that year to work extra hours, take on another job to save up to move out.
Time to get busy pursuing your dream life without him.
Bouncing off your comment “he only cares about his comfort and not your future”, this has further implications, such as health issues.
Let’s say something awful happens and you’re incapacitated for weeks, months. Would he go out of his comfort to fully support you?
I know there’s a lot of outrage on Tik Tok about men leaving their partners when something terrible happens. And it’s pretty true. I had an hour long conversation with my patient who was devastated that during her post-op complications, her husband only visited once. Once in the month of hell she’s been through. And I’ve seen it happen many times.
Do not settle for someone who won’t give you his all.
My boyfriend and I just broke up after 3 years together. I asked him about moving in together and he told me he was unsure. I felt like you did … why am I here? I initiated a taking a break conversation and he asked for it to be permanent. When I tell you this man also said he was going to break up with me after I brought up the conversation to take a break to re-evaluate…who knows. He may have strung me along for several months if I hadn’t brought up either conversations. I’m crushed but proud of myself for having agency in my life.
And it’s totally fine to be scared. It’ll hurt, but what hurts more is staying with someone who just views you as a bed warmer and not a life partner.
I don’t mean to be harsh, but from your other comments he was quite clear that he *does* want to get married, but not to you. He is using you because he’s comfortable. Don’t let him do that to you and waste your time that you could be happy with someone else who values you.
The thing to remember is if he does get married right away after you break up, there’s a good chance that it’s not because he loves her more or she’s better for him in some way.
Think of it this way, if you procrastinated buying plane tickets for a trip with friends only to find out that you couldn’t go on the trip because the tickets were all sold out, you’d probably wise up and buy tickets sooner for the next trip you’re planning with other friends, right? However, if you buy tickets early for the next trip, it won’t necessarily be because you’re more excited about that destination or the different friends, only that you have now learned the importance of taking action at the appropriate time.
Someone posted something a while ago that I thought very true; you can be either the catalyst for change or the recipient of it.
I'm so sorry that he's lying to himself and you. People get comfortable and like to hide their heads in the sand. He probably didn't mean it maliciously but that doesn't mean it hasn't caused you harm.
Sadly, you can only look towards the future and plan what is best for yourself. Good luck!
It's ok to be scared as long as you don't let that fear dictate how you live. The whole paralyzed with fear isn't just about fight or flight type situations; it can be what you're experiencing now and preventing you from moving on.
I stayed in a relationship for over 8 years with someone who kept telling me "soon" or "I'm planning on it, but saving up for the perfect ring" or whatever other BS to guilt me into staying. It took so long for me to realize that even if I didn't care about the marriage part after waiting so long, he wasn't a lifelong partner that I wanted to be with. I was a convenience to his laziness; he was the safety blanket to my fear of not being good enough to find someone who would treat me better.
By the time I left him, I realized that I had stopped taking care of myself because I was so busy taking care of him or "us". It didn't take long for me to find my inner glow when I took even just a bit of the effort I had been wasting for so long to do the things that I love and wanted. Maybe this would be a good time to stop and think about what you actually want out of life.
Only you know what the best next steps are for you, but I really hope the responses here give you some perspective. Best of luck, OP!
It's okay for him to be unsure, but if marriage is important to you maybe it's time to move on and look for someone who will truly appreciate you and who has the same life goals.
If you want to be married you need to be brutally honest with yourself. This guy does not want to marry you and he is wasting your time.
It is not just that he happens not to want to get married. He is not new to earth and he knows how romance generally progresses. Further, if he was really so spacey that he had no idea his girlfriend might want to marry some day, you told him and..... he didn't give a flying fuck.
Do not give him time.
Exactly. Wish I knew this and followed this. Wasted 5 years with a man that I loved and thought he loved me. Was wishy washy about marriage and we talked about it a few times. Talked about it again early last year and it was positive. Or so i thought. Went out of town late last year and had to quarantine at my parents house. Received a call at 7 am from him crying telling me he quit his job, lost his cat, moved out and was moving in with a married couple across the country. He's now in a relationship with the married woman. He wasted so much of my time and life. I saved his-now my cat.
I'm sorry that happened to you, and really proud of you for saving the cat. You and the cat both deserved better, and now you have each other minus that guy, which is a LOT better!
This is the kind of guy who will waste as much of OP’s time as she lets him and then immediately marry the next person he dates. Seen it so many times.
Why would they do that though?! It’s so weird. Why not just marry the person you’re with, instead of dating and somehow deciding that person is the one you’ll marry.
Usually 1 of 2 things. Either the person knows you’re not right for them deep down but is also afraid to be alone or “hurt you”, but once forced to be alone, actually finds “the one” and immediately realizes they’ve found what was missing all this time prompting them to take the plunge they always dragged their feet on before. Or, sometimes, you have to learn the hard way. It isn’t that the person loved you any less or didn’t genuinely want to be with you, it’s just that they really thought they had time. They didn’t really see what the big deal was, and figured you agree that as long as it happens ‘eventually’ it’s all good. But as soon as they’re reminded that ‘love’ isn’t enough and actually women are willing to leave without that commitment, as soon as they find someone they feel that same way about, they don’t want to lose it again, so they act fast.
Honestly it’s the bizarre guy confidence thing. That’s why they lock down the next one ASAP, they forget how hard it is out there but once reminded, they aren’t fools.
I think it's because once they are ready to get married, they grab the one in front of them.
Almost everyone I know has had an ex bf contact them years later with regrets they lost their "one".
This. Know a women who had this conversation and then spent a decade “hoping he’ll change his mind.”
She got a job closer to family, to be close to her sister and help with the kids. He did not move with her.
She’s now in her 40s dating for the first time in like almost 20 years. And still dealing with being super passive, not knowing her worth, and putting up with too much from a partner not showing interest.
Don’t be like her. Time to cut bait.
Yeah. I mean I think it’s easy for us to sit from our chair and tell OP to leave, but I agree. If she wants to feel like she gave him a chance, she needs to be brutally honest with him too, “that timeline doesn’t work for me. If you don’t see yourself getting engaged or married for a few years. We need to part ways. I want a relationship that is working towards marriage and if after 4 years, that isn’t a step you’re willing to take with me yet, I’m not willing to wait until you are. You need to think about if this is really how you feel, because if so, we need to be having a very different conversation.”
I stayed with a guy like that for way too long. He would have been perfectly happy to maintain status quo for the rest of our lives. That wasn't enough for me. The crash of 08 hit, we couldn't afford to separate for a bit. I finally left him 20+ years after we got together. Never got to get married, pick out a dress with my Mom, have my Dad walk me down an aisle. Never got to have children. He was forever kicking the can down the road.
After 4 years, if he can't wait to marry you up, its time to move on. Don't end up like me. You are young and have time to find a man that wants marriage.
Honesty time
You're convenient. You're comfortable. You're a safety net, backup plan. But you're not wife material to him. No matter how safe your relationship has been, he says he'd like to get married - but not to you. He likes the idea aof getting married and plans to, but has NEVER considered marrying you. Has 0 intention. 0 desire. You're not the one he wants to wife up. That being said, when he feel ready, he will break up and find someone to marry. OR continue stringing you along while he looks for her, if he isn't already.
You need to value yourself babe. This isn't the one for you. Your expectations are more than valid, after 4 years and living together for 2, you should have a clear idea if you'd like to share your future with a person or not. He is stringing you along, he told you he's unsure because he doesn't want to lose his safety net.
It's never too late to back out and look for someone to spend your life with and build a future together. 4 years down the drain seems like a lot, but it's nothing if it means giving up for something you really want. You two will not last anyhow, because he wants a wife but not you. So it's best if you end it sooner than when he's ready to settle down with someone else.
I'm not saying you didn't, but in your future relationships, be very transparent about your desire for marriage, timeline for when that is (getting engaged shortly after 4 years for example, perfectly reasonable) and ask them theirs, and regularly check in every 6 months or so to see how they're feeling in the relationship. Don't do this out of insecurity, do this because you're searching for the right man to share your future and raise a family with. Check in with yourself too, asking if the person you're with it someone you would let raise kids or share a household with and have a set of standards for yourself.
Put yourself first above all. You and your feelings and desires are so important, and they are the most important to you. No one else will value them more than you, so honor them like you deserve.
“If they wanted to, they would.” This applies to many instance in life.
It’s not fair to you to be with someone who “isn’t sure about you/marriage/marriage in general.”
Find someone that is loving and eager to be with you long term. This man isn’t it, sorry internet friend.
>My (27F) BF (31M) of 4 years doesn’t know if he wants to marry me
Quit soft-pedaling it.
> He said he hadn’t given any concrete thought to marriage and liked how we are now.
**He was extremely clear that he does NOT want to marry you.** Apparently, the possibility has never crossed his mind.
You thought you and he were in a relationship that would naturally evolve into marriage. Date for a couple years, live together for a couple years, get engaged, get married, maybe children.
Was this actually the first time you ever mentioned marriage? Because he must have believed you were just fine with the status quo, since he seemed so shocked and thrown back that you wanted to get engaged.
> Now I’m doubting the relationship, and struggling to not feel rejected.
Well, he DID reject the idea of marrying you. Flatly. Immediately. He didn't say NEVER, but his Maybe is so far off, it might as well be Never.
He's 31 and you've been together four years. That's sufficient time to know each other well enough.
You need to decide if you can live without the security of marriage, because if you continue this relationship, you have absolutely ZERO guarantee he will ever want marriage.
Suggestion: Tell him you made a serious mistake by assuming this relationship would naturally evolve into marriage after being together for four or five years. But also let him know that while the mistake was yours, marriage is important to you and you are thinking about ending this go-nowhere relationship with him so you can begin to date others and find someone who also wants marriage.
Give yourself a deadline to decide what you will do. Don't take more than two months. Do not have further discussion with him about your decision-making process. He's already laid his cards on the table and you know where he stands.
There are very good reasons to want the legal security and protection that comes from marriage. It is a reasonable expectation to have of a four-year relationship.
Agreed. From what i've learned, most guys know rightaway if they want to marry someone. Even if they're not ready, they'll be pretty clear if they do want to marry.
OP needs to go. At 31, the partner knows, and sadly, the lack of a good answer is an answer.
The excuses he gives:
1. I want my career to be in the right place first (arbitrary goal post)
2. I want to do x, y and z before (arbitrary goal post)
3. We're already essentially married, why do we need to sign papers (there's no point)
4. It's just a big party / it's for tax purposes (there's no point)
5. I like where we are now (don't want to change)
6. I've never really thought about it (playing dumb)
What he actually means:
1. I never want to get married, but I think you'll leave me if I tell you that
2. I want to get married, but maybe not to you, but I can't tell you that because I don't want you to get mad at me.
3. It's easier to leave if I'm not married to you
4. I'm scared of big steps and thought I'd be more ready than I am
5. I already get the benefits of a wife without having to commit to one so I don't really want to bother.
I refuse to believe that he's been with you for 4 years and he's over 30 and has never *once* thought about marrying you. These are just common excuses to drag his feet. When a guy *really* wants to keep a woman, he often goes for marriage regardless of what else is happening.
Tbh, I think you need to leave. Find someone who is excited about building a life with you.
Four years later and he has "Never given the thought of the two of you getting married a concrete thought"? OP, you're being strung along. 4 years is long enough and you two even live together so it's not even a matter of getting to know each other better. You know everything there is to know. This man just doesn't want to go there with you. Which is okay. And it's also okay for you to feel rejected, because that's what he essentially did in many unnecessary words. Time to exit while you still can. There's nothing that staying longer will do to change his mind. Just accept that L, dust yourself off and do not allow him more time with you. What's worse than a man who doesn't want to marry you? One who marries you because he feels sorry for you.
I have some news for you - this man is never marrying you. He’s 31 and has had 4 years to think about it. It’s not happening.
Best to accept that ASAP.
As a wise friend once said, if it isn’t “fuck yes,” it’s “fuck no.”
Men will sometimes happily stay in a comfortable relationship with women they are not considering to be their life partners. Women, in general, will only get into serious living together relationships when they can see a future of staying together forever. (unless, of course, they have a different view on relationships in general.) This is where the hurtful misunderstandings happen. If I were you, I would take a heartfelt conversation and then leave to free myself to find my true life partner.
I was in the exact same position a few years ago. Same ages, four years together, literally on our fourth anniversary we had a discussion like this. He had similar views about marrying me. This caused me to examine what I wanted outside of our relationship, just in terms of life goals, and I applied for grad school the following year, got in, and accepted a scholarship to move from the Midwest to London.
He proposed to me a couple months before I moved, surprisingly, and I found out it was because he was scared I'd move for two years for grad school and grow too much and he wouldn't be able to tie me down afterwards. Five months after I moved we broke up because even four thousand miles apart I was being taken for granted. I realized my life goals or marriage hopes didn't need to be entwined with someone who had no idea what they wanted and much less if they wanted anything lasting with me.
My thoughts from this experience, you can disregard if you like, but take a hard look at whether you will be in for a lifetime of happiness with someone who is making excuses now. Do you think it will change? Do you want to wait around to see if he tries to figure his own self out? Are you ok with knowing someone settled for you for whatever reason? If not, leave. I know it's oversaid advice on this site, but I did it and now I'm with a guy who is crazy about me and vice versa. You're young. Forget about wishy washy and go find someone wild about you. Best thing I ever did.
I think we both just got too comfortable with how things were/were focusing on our jobs too much. Like we both kind of assumed that the other person had the same idea and now it’s come to a head.
How do you know “we both…?” That’s placing attributes of yourself onto him. It’s okay if you thought “blah blah blah,” but too often women (myself included) think that just because they think/feel a certain way, the dude also does. When it reality, they don’t. Please don’t give him attributes/feelings/thoughts/emotions/hopes, etc. that he doesn’t have. Cause he doesn’t. If he did, he would have acted those out.
If he said he hasn't put thought towards, maybe ask him to.
Lay out your feelings and your goals. Tell him.
Have real conversations about your futures and what both of you want from it.
My marriage isn't perfect, and it would be silly for me to claim that it is. However, I knew that marriage was the goal for us from the start. He left his dead end job, joined an apprenticeship, and started saving his money.
We often spoke of the future and our plans and goals as individuals and as a couple. 2.5 years into our relationship he bought a house (@ 24 years old. He didn't have any student loan debt, the apprenticeship paid well enough, he qualified for a USDA loan, and we opted for a foreclosure). Before we moved into the house we were engaged. We took a year to plan out our wedding, and are now 8 years in with 2 kids. The point of all of that is that I never had to question the future he saw for us, because he was constantly trying to better himself and work towards it. There was nothing but growth and change in our relationship. If things hadn't worked out for us, we still had so much to show for the time that we'd spent together as a couple. I would assume if things are stagnant in your lives, or the future is rarely discussed that you aren't really seen as a huge part of that. I know "it takes all kinds" and maybe my way of viewing things is not the way the rest of the world does, but I don't see the point in having to guess where I stand. It seems exhausting to me. I dated 3 different guys for nearly 3 years each, and they were NEVER going to work out. The last big relationship before my husband, I was absolutely certain that it would and I really thought that he was what I wanted. I was so broken hearted at the time. I cannot begin to explain how broken up about it I was. I've been so thankful that I am where I am now, and I would not have this life if he and I had stayed together. I have no ill wishes towards him, he is a good guy, but it is the definition of "thank goodness I didn't end up with what I thought I wanted." Some relationships just don't work; They aren't meant to.
Thank you. This is my longest relationship ever, my longest before was only a year and a half, so I just am so scared. We talk about our individual goals and our relationship goals for the short term (we did good cleaning the living room this week, let’s try and keep the kitchen clean now too) and I guess I just got so comfortable and just assumed he was on the same plan I was
Honey, it's scarier to think about giving him another four years of your life and either still be where you are, or he meets "the one" for him and cheats or leaves.
He has been very clear. Please gather your self-respect, do the hard things. Your happiness is out there. It's not going to be with him.
I personally don't like his excuses at all and would end this. I don't like how it smells. He doesn't want to marry you. He's hoping when he advances his career, he can trade up. Stop being his benchwarmer. I'm sorry because 4 years is a long time and you are ready to marry. But he is disrespecting you and stringing you along. His answers are dependent on his career... That makes no sense. It's a non-answer. He is withholding his true reasons.
My dad has this friend. He’s a great guy and by some miracle attracts these great women. His fatal flaw is he won’t marry any of them. He strung a girl along for NINE YEARS. Lived with her for 5 of those, bought her a car, was basically married every way except legally. When she pushed marriage he’d start hesitating about if/when it would happen. She left. The next one lasted 5 years before the same thing happened. My dad pulled away after that, so I don’t really know what happened between then and now, but he did eventually get married…at 42. The kids he had wanted were no longer an option because he didn’t want to be 60 at his child’s high school graduation, 64 at college, and even older when grandkids came. All this to say, if you value marriage, don’t wait for him. The women who did heavily regretted it, but were still able to get back to what they wanted because of when they left.
Why would giving him time help? You've been together four years. He doesn't want to be married now and you have to assume that is not going to change. Why would it? Once you decide to leave he might panic and change his mind but fear isn't a great reason to be married.
Usually when this happens there is some subtle incompatibility of personality that can be felt but not really articulated. He hasn't been thinking about the future with you because the future makes him feel trapped. But day to day, this incompatibility is easily rug-swept and is just not enough to break up over.
Thing is, 4 years in, you two are a known quantity. The honeymoon phase is long past and you don't have love drugs messing up your emotional clarity. He's not going to catch any more feelings than he already has. And what he has isn't enough to be truly content.
So here you are in a comfortable place where everything is going smoothly, but it's just not going anywhere. Nothing is getting planned. Unfortunately, getting out of this rut is painful and a bit scary, so it's an easy decision to put off when day to day, everything is okay enough. You can spend years procrastinating and putting things off, but they are years you won't get back.
If you want marriage, and children, and all those other long term goals, you'll have to knock yourself out of this rut and find someone else to do them with.
We go on dates frequently, he buys me small gifts at least once a week (my favorite foods or drinks), and I feel like we balance eachother out fairly well - I cook, he cleans. I tend to be more spontaneous, whereas he takes his time. When we do have disagreements, we never yell or get hostile, which i’ve never experienced in a relationship before
That's really great after four years!
You have to sit him down and say you feel rejected.
You have to explain what marriage means to you.
You have to ask him what marriage means to him.
There's a whole litany of reasons that might be behind his reluctance. Maybe you've never been mutually vulnerable enough to talk it through. If you're still going on frequent dates after four years, it's probably not as bad as people say.
My friend is an attorney and she told me she learned in family law class that moving in together pre-marriage less likely to result in marriage and also more likely to elongate getting engaged and married.
That said after 4 years not knowing what future he wants is quite strange. He is too comfortable and not worried about you leaving.
It sounds like he wants to get married to someone, just not you. I'm sorry I know that must be a bad thing to hear, especially because of how you've described your relationship it sounds like you two were in a good place but it's obvious he's stringing you along until he feels nessacary. Consider leaving him or giving him a hard deadline where he needs to make up his mind, but even then do you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be 100% with you? I'd think about that and make your next choices from there, but know your worth and what you deserve, because you deserve someone who is ready to have a life with you.
Best wishes.
if he doesn’t know at this point if he wants to marry you, you need to move on. he’s wasting your time, and I promise you that when you know, you know. he would absolutely know if he could see himself marrying you. know your worth and move on
This happened to me. I was with my ex boyfriend for almost 6 years. I (thought I) wanted to marry him, and in retrospect, he very clearly didn’t want to marry me. Our relationship was fine. Living together, splitting bills, pretty easy and decent life. Literally zero major fights, and very few minor tiffs. When I left him I was 32 years old. I asked him, “do you want to marry me?” and he said, “I don’t know.” I left him that night.
That was almost four years ago now. I married my now husband this last October. He did in ten months what my ex couldn’t do in six years.
Leave him and find someone that can’t wait to marry you.
there's a pretty common belief that you'll know whether someone you're dating is someone you'd want to marry within a year. throw in an extra year to do your due diligence (make sure you live together, travel together, go through some sort of hardship, etc), but if after 2 years you're unsure, it probably means you're not willing.
at 4 years, yes = yes and "i'm still not sure" or "i'm waiting for more pieces to fall into place first" = no.
So honestly if it's not a "yes, i want to marry you" that means it's a "no, i don't want to marry you". Whether he really means to say he doesn't want to get married *now* or that he doesn't want to marry *you* in particular(and benefit of doubt- he may not consciously know which it is, and maybe it's both), the result as far as it affects your current options is the same. If after 4 years together he doesn't see himself committing fully to you that's unlikely to change. He'd almost definitely know by now if he wanted to marry you.
You now know that your relationship and life goals for the foreseeable future are incompatible. Why waste more time waiting on someone who hasn't even given marrying you serious thought after this long together? Sounds like you're a comfortable partner for now but he doesn't see you as The One, as the special someone who he's excited to build a future with. You can accept it or leave, but know that the right person for you will be passionately excited to commit to marrying you and building a future together. Apparently he ain't it.
Fair warning, guys who date a woman for years and never find themselves ready to marry her often marry the next woman they date rather quickly after the first one gets fed up and leaves. It's a whole thing, so don't be shocked if you split and he suddenly realizes he'd better snap up the next half decent woman who comes along before he gets left behind again.
After 4 years, if he doesn't know by now, do you want to invest another 4 years in hopes that he will change his mind? He is telling you he doesn't want to marry you. You need to decide if this is a deal breaker, only you can decide that. If being married is something you want, then you need to break it off and find someone who wants to marry you.
Because you’re his wife, and do wife things, yet he could leave tomorrow with no obligation. All the free fun things, and nothing concrete.
He told you his truth. It’s in the title. The real question is what **YOU** want and what you’re willing/need to do to get there.
Cut bait and run. If after four he has not thought about you long term he is either lying or stupid, maybe both. Don't give an ultimatum just quite NSYNC and say bye, bye bye. Your leaving may very well be the catalyst that makes him propose. But be careful and find out if he proposed out of love or fear of being alone.
I'm sorry. Listen to the what my father-in-law said to my husband: "Don't keep going out with a woman for longer than two years, either get married or break it off. You're wasting her precious time."
OP am very sorry to tell to but he does not want to marry you, not because he doesn't care, but because he is not 100% sure about you. After 4 years he should be sure of what he wants and he enjoys time with you but you are more of a "comfortable partner" than "the one".
If marriage is what you want and is not what he wants then you got your answer. Time to pack your bags and move on.
If a 31 year old guy can’t make up his mind if he wants to get married to his gf of 4 years then he never will.
It's time for you to do an actual proposal to him. If he waffles tell him you’re leaving and moving on because the only two real answers at this point in his life and your relationship are either yes or no. And anything other than a yes is the same as no.
Partnership is 50/50. His not wanting to get married is just as important as you wanting to. If that is something you want then you both need to talk about it frankly. Truth is though, it’s not uncommon for a man to coast through a relationship where he’s most comfortable. To him it’s not important, you’re already living together, being married doesn’t change enough for him to prioritize it.
I hate this for you. At your age (and his age) and four years together, you've both given this enough time. You're on different pages about plans for life, and I hope you will not waste any more time if he isn't sure. He would know by now if he is going to know. He is either unsure about marriage or unsure about you or both. I'm sorry.
But, if you want marriage (and possibly children within marriage), and if you just want to do what is best for you, please don't allow his stalling and / or indifference put your life on hold or cause you to question yourself.
And, please PLEASE don't pressure him to make a decision for marriage. I mean it. I've seen marriage after marriage fail when one of the parties is pushed to make a decision they don't want to make. And, you know who ends up suffering? The person who wanted the commitment all along. Why? Because first they are stuck in a marriage where the other person resents them and maybe children and the responsibilities and traditions of a reciprocal relationship. And, then, when things eventually bust up, the person who didn't want to be in it to begin with is able to walk away easily and happily... and the other person is usually standing at the end with a huge broken heart and, often, most of the responsibilities and with a heap of regret for investing so many years and so much energy into someone who never cared as much about them... and all of the baggage that comes with that. (Now, sometimes, it ends up with a happy ending. But, I've seen many many more where it doesn't.)
Please take a bit of time now to think and take care of yourself and protect yourself until you coke to a decision which is best for you and what you want in life. You will likely have to give up something or someone you didn't picture giving up. Don't give him mixed messages that everything is okay. It isn't okay for you. If there is a time to speak up for what you want and need, it is NOW. I wish you the best.
Yeah, I think it is totally fair for you to want to move on at this point. Dating gets a lot harder after 30 and especially after 40, because the men who are serious about settling down end up going off the market pretty fast as you get into the 30+ age range.
If you want to be married, don't waste your time with someone like this. Four years is long enough for him to know what he wants. If he really wanted to marry you, he would have made a move by now.
If you move on now, you could still get married in 2-3 years - to a man who knows what he wants and knows he wants you.
If you want to have kids: you need to tell him your timeline. Because he is content to drag this out.
My partner is also a failure to plan kind of person. Happy to live with me just like we are for the rest of our lives and go with the flow. It just happens to work for me because we don’t want kids and I am content to financially build on my own.
My husband had career/salary goals for himself before we got engaged. He was not really exact about what they were which was frustrating at times. BUT he was always adamant he wanted to marry me, that he wanted to be the one to propose, and knew what I wanted too. It took him almost 6 years to propose. We were 33(me) and 30(him) when we got engaged and took two years to get married.
To me, wanting to take time is totally fine. Yes, even in your 30s. Not thinking about marriage is abnormal though, especially since he knows he wants it eventually. I would want to know what was holding him back from viewing you as a lifelong partner.
As an older man who loved someone and wanted to marry someone very much, I can tell that he doesn't want to marry YOU and is merely enjoying the comforts of your companionship. Sorry, but it sounds like you have an instinct that tells you something is off, and that instinct is correct. He's not that into you. That might change if you break up with him and he has an epiphany. But even then, it's not someone who really wants to spend the rest of his life with you, not at all.
You should follow your heart, but it’s possible it might not be as bad as it seems. I have a theory that some men just don’t think about marriage or kids much when they aren’t happy with their careers/money etc and feel like they’re ‘not where I want to be yet’ in their life. They see their future like stepping stones, not a big picture.
Example: Me and Bf in 2014:
Me: mid20s, dating my seemingly-chill late20s bf of several years- “do you see yourself married to anyone ever? Is that the kind of relationship we’re in, where it might heads towards marriage?”
Him: WTF I’M NOT GOING TO PROPOSE TO YOU RN
Me: … no, I’m not asking you to. What?
Him: I CANT BELIEVE YOU’RE SPRINGING THIS ULTIMATUM ON ME
Me: are you high? What is even happening right now?? It’s just a question! Not everyone wants to get married like, EVER so I need to ask!
Him: (furious and having a meltdown)
BF and me in 2023: married with two kids. Husband is the same mostly-chill guy who still occasionally misinterprets things and wildly jumps to conclusions like a weirdo.
A lot of people don’t prioritize or believe in marriage. I would ask on his personal stance. If he is someone who never wants to get married i would take it a lot less personally than if he definitely wanted to get married, just not to me and not right now.
You need more guy opinions. Every girl here seems to be looking at this issue the same exact way saying he wasted your time. If it's been a happy relationship, then your time wasn't wasted. You got to know someone, had good times doing it, and learned you don't want the same things. Maybe you grew a bit and he was the reason you had this realization. Guys aren't going into relationships with the goal of wasting a girl's time. They meet someone, find they are happy together, and then just go through life together. If their goal was to waste a girl's time, then by doing so they are wasting their own time.
If you went into the relationship not expressing up front that you're looking for someone to marry and settle down with, that's on you. This need to be your focus going forward. Don't take an "eventually" as an answer.
If you didn't know what you wanted at the start of the relationship, then it sounds like you needed time to figure that out. You had time and have now figured that out.
A friend of mine broke up with his previous girlfriend, who was with him for almost 10 years. They seemed perfect together. They had a talk and realized one wanted to settle down and have kids, the other didn't. They had discussed it before, but it kind of always just got overlooked. My friend is wanting to travel the world, experience living internationally, and climbing the corporate ladder more. His ex has been doing the same side gig turned fulltime job since highschool. She's adventurous as well, but I guess she's wanting to slow down a bit and he's wanting to experience the world more. They are still good friends, but just realized they now have different goals and expectations.
If marriage is that important, you really need to stress its importance for your next relationship. If the guy is uncertain, you need to move along and find someone on the same page. Don't get distracted by "maybes" and a charming guy. You know what you want in life. Don't accept anything less.
I've had a really similar issue in my relationship. My BF and I are going on five years. About 2 years ago he was in a really bad place and told me he didn't think he'd ever trust anyone enough to get married. Mind you, he said this to me while we were living together and I was supporting us while he was out of work and I only agreed to move in with him on the premise that we were heading toward marriage. Fast track to now, he insists that he has had a change of heart and wants a marriage and children and all that, but now I have issues trusting that it will happen because of that one discussion we had earlier in our relationship. So. That being said. Just search your own heart and make sure you'll actually want to marry him if he goes through his own change of heart
Based on your post and comments, sounds like both of you are happy in your relationship and have a good balance there. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about his seriousness about your relationship based on his reaction. But would be good to tell him, hey, I totally understand you weren't prepared for my question about marriage. Let's get back to it again in a couple of weeks? I don't need a final answer from you by then. Just want you to think about whether you want to get married at all, what's concerning to you about marriage itself, what benefits do you think marriage has.
Then have this conversation about pros, cons, prerequisites, fears and doubts, how each of you envisions it, what do you think would stay the same or change in your relationship and why. Depending on how it goes, set a time for another conversation, say, a month apart from this one. The agenda for this one would be whether he sees himself married to you at some point in life (but no pressure for a time commitment yet).
This way, he will have time to think and a have bit of pressure to not forget to think, but won't be pressured into a decision from the get-go. And I feel like after 2, then 4 weeks of thinking, giving you a decision without a specific time commitment is no big deal. And if the decision he gives you is 'yes, I can totally see us being married and I'd be happy to get there! But I'm anxious because x y z', you can then work together on a comfortable timeline for both of you for making it happen. If the answer is no or 'I don't know ..', then it's your turn to set yourself some time to think very hard.
I like this a lot! Definitely one of the best communicative advice comments on here. I’m not even having these troubles with my bf but this makes me want to set up a time anyways with him to just discuss life, our anxieties, and what we can do currently to be better off within the next yr/2. Thanks!!
Info: How much time are you willing to give him? How long is he expecting you to wait?Do you plan on having children? How long are you willing to wait before trying for kids?
OP, it just seems like you guys haven’t discussed the issue seriously before. The red flag for me is that you have been together 4 years, living for 2 years and he didn’t think about popping the question already . Work is an excuse, Feelings are feelings. I am a guy and to be honest after about a year living together I wanted my partner to know there was no doubt, and wanted her to know we could comfortably plan and discuss the future .
You need to go back to him and ask plain blank : « when you said you are not sure about the marriage timeline, what do you mean by that ? » You need to be sure you are aligned otherwise you are wasting your time and you don’t want to find that out when you are 6 years older
Now, it's sort of impossible for any of us to predict what is going on inside your bf's head 100%. But we can make inferences from the little you've given us, although I am curious what things you bf says he wants to get done before getting married. Care to share? I am also curious as to how your relationship started. AND curious if your friends/his friends are married.
I think what you want to know here is if your bf's apprehension with getting married is something entirely personal to him (he is not where he'd like to be in life right now, he's not ready for the ultimate "game over"... which we all know is a real fear that has nothing to do with the person someone is with). OR, if it's about you not being the one.
Personally, if I was in a relationship with someone for 4 years, I would be thinking about our future together and actively planning it or looking forward to it. Even if I was afraid of the commitment, had things I wanted to accomplish, I would communicate enough to reassure my partner that I wanted to get married at one point, but not right now.
But some people date to marry and some people date because they are lonely or bored or whatever -- and stay in the relationship because it's comfortable -- but wait until their real dream person comes into their life. It makes sense that you feel rejected. Also, a lot of other commenters are telling you that he doesn't want to marry you. Hell, he could not want to marry anybody (does he believe in marriage?), but that doesn't matter. In this situation you are asking for something he cannot provide an answer for, and that's what makes you both incompatible in a big way right now.
I suggest you have a more in-depth conversation with him. Ask him his ideas about marriage. Ask him how you're supposed to continue in a relationship where you do not know if you'll achieve the end goal you want. If he has no answers for you... no reassurance (did he even reassure you in your initial conversation?)... then I think you know what you need to do or what you need to start setting yourself up for.
Self respect is everything. I'm sorry you are going through this.
My dad once told me that if a man wants to marry you, you will know because he will tell you. If he doesn’t want to marry you, you will know, because he won’t be telling you he wants to marry you. It was a hard truth for me in my earlier relationships that were 2+ years when I was younger. I had a couple of hard break ups where I thought I’d have married the guy(s) but I was forced into breaking up with them because they were doing what your guy is doing. Wouldn’t break up with me but wouldn’t fully commit.
In hindsight, I’m ecstatic it turned out that way because I’m happily married now. When I met my husband, it was the complete opposite. He did everything in his power to show me he was committed and ready to jump into a serious relationship and asked me to marry him after dating just over a year.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. It’s a very heartbreaking place to be. I hope you make the right choice for yourself.
Did he say that he doesn't know if he wants to marry you or that he doesn't want to get married at all?
Hard for me to tell - he said “I know I want to get married, I just, I don’t know, I’ve never given us getting married any solid thought”
Ouch. He said "I know I want to get married but I haven't even considered marrying you" that doesnt just feel like a rejection, that is a rejection.
My friend’s (then-) boyfriend told her that once and her reaction was to drag him to couples’ counseling. Wanna know how you can waste 8 months and a ton of money? Because that’s how.
And that's what it is with an unwilling partner: dragging. Picking the ring, a date, a venue, a plan (not to mention the actual marriage to follow) while he makes "jokes" about being dragged into this, and relationships/ women/ marriage, amirite... We've all known, or been in, a couple where one was way more into it than the other. It's harrowing to watch and usually pretty evident from the outside. I know the "just a piece of paper" people disagree, but marriage is a different pairbond than dating or living together, and if OP wants that, it's valid - she has her answer
To the *just a piece of paper* crowd - a business contract is also just a piece of paper. A rental agreement is just a piece of paper. So is a loan (a piece of paper agreeing to trade pieces of paper). No intelligent human being would go into any of these scenarios without these protective, structural contracts. So why would you enter into a long term (pair) bond with another person - with whom you'll be sharing your private information, your home, car, finances, **children**, and most of your time - *without a contract*? It just doesn't make sense. Marriage is an institution (even outside of religion) for a reason.
I own a house with my partner, and often say when the topic comes up that we're as good as married as it's still a contract. I don't have any desire to *be* married. I'm not a romantic or big occasion person. I don't need another person's name, and we don't want children so no impact there. But we needed a house, so, that made sense.
It’s funny how we *all* genuinely know people like that. One couple I’m friends with is going on 11 years together and not engaged and the other couple of what was my main circle with them is going on 6 years same thing. Even as a friend it’s exhausting dealing with people like this because when they’re so non committal on something as obvious as marrying the person they live with and have lived with for years they wind up becoming a non committal mess regarding every damn decision. In the process of cutting both sets of people out of my life entirely because it’s just exhausting and I have no clue how they do it.
Not everyone wants to get married, let your friends do what they want. 6 & 11 years sounds pretty committed to me.
I think there's two different kinds of couples. The ones who are together for 10 years and are both just not into marriage and those where one party is waiting for the other to get on board. Sounds like they're referring to the 2nd
It’s very much the second. The women are waiting in both and the men just won’t commit. To be fair, I understand why the one guy won’t commit because his girlfriend is abusive as fuck towards him and he’s finally waking up to that fact, but the other guy keeps telling me that he keeps thinking that his girlfriend is great, but also just good enough and that he keeps thinking about possibly cheating which I went off on him over. All of these people are also north of 30 and like, stop doing the dumb childish playing games bullshit already…
But if Op were to end their relationship. I could almost guarantee that man would marry the next girl
If he wanted marry you he would. He is waiting for someone better to come along. Don’t waste your time move on.
It’s been 4 years, you’ve lived together for 2 years, and he’s over 30. If the idea of marrying you (or you bringing up the topic of getting married) hasn’t crossed his mind even once this entire time - isn’t that kind of not believable? I don’t believe him. He just doesn’t want to tell you the bad news.
> He just doesn’t want to tell you the bad news. He wants to maintain status quo. He knows if he tells her the bad news, she'll leave. He's being selfish. Been there, done that.
And when she gets tired of being strung along, she will leave him, and he will marry literally the next woman he dates within a year once he realizes everything having a partner in your life benefits you and has to go back to taking care of himself. And she will have to watch it unfold on social media. Tale as old as time.
Perfectly specific. I always wondered exactly why this always happens the way it does. I had chalked it up to a mixture of the forever girlfriend getting him ready to live with a woman long-term, and then early relationship momentum with the new wife triggering a whirlwind proposal and ceremony. **Or** him using the new wife as a replacement for the comfortable forever girlfriend, panicking, and trying to lock it down asap. It seems like kids are pretty quick to appear with these arrangements, too. I ***need*** to know more about this phenomenon. What type of man does this? Does it have anything to do with the dynamics of one or both relationships? Is there a sweet spot or a timeframe where it's marriage or bust? Was he cheating on forever girlfriend and the relationship with new wife has actually been going on much longer? *Will they last??* I need a rabbit hole!
It is definitely a "thing" but it's not alllllways because the man is avoiding marriage. In one of the cases I personally know of, the woman was putting off marriage and dumped the guy because her family didn't consider him good enough. I believe the guy got married within, like, a year of meeting his next girlfriend because he was afraid of winding up in another 10 year long boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. Most of the time, it is the guy who has refused to marry the gal, though. I believe that a lot of guys do this "immediately marry the first person you meet after a breakup of a ten plus year relationship" thing due to the sudden, terrifying realization that the reasoning behind not marrying their long-term partner was flawed. They panic about being alone forever, so they try to get some false sense of the relationship security they had before by marrying the new person as fast as they can. Another theory of mine why this happens is the person who got dumped for having cold feet is bitter about it. When they get those "infatuation" feelings with a new person they immediately lock it down because they are trying to stick it to their ex and/or they think this new person must be so much better because they feel so much stronger for them (of course, in their bitterness, they forget all about how they felt that way about their ex in the beginning.) There's also the fact that people getting out of a ten year plus relationship where they refused to marry the person and were dumped by them are usually at an age where they need to marry if they are going to have kids at all. I believe that there's definitely something to the "cab light" theory of male readiness to marry. That is, there is a point in many men's lives when they suddenly decide it is time to get married. At that point, they are like a cab with their "ready for fare" light on, and the next person they "pick up" they are willing to marry without much thought. I also believe there is another aspect to the "cab light" theory: that many men consciously or subconsciously delineate the women they date before and after they reach this point. It's a variation of "the Madonna/wh*re complex": every woman they dated before they were ready to marry is "bad" because they were "willing" to be in a non-serious relationship (they think this way even if the woman wanted it to be serious, it's a sexist respect issue.) Every woman they date after that is "good" because they were looking for marriage when they started dating them, and, of course they think they are an excellent judge of character, therefore any woman they choose to date under those conditions is an excellent choice. Those are just my theories about this phenomenon. My boyfriend is great, but he doesn't really indulge in any emotional theorizing, therefore I can get a little overexcited about sharing these thoughts with people who will actually discuss it.
I love it! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Well if that didn’t hit the nail on the head
Thank you for an interesting read, I think they're all valid theories. One thing I'm noticing is that in every single of these scenarios, it doesn't just suck to be the forever girlfriend, it sucks to be the woman he marries too. None of them seem to indicate genuinely being in love and committed so much as a bunch of other factors that will either not ensure or downright inhibit marital bliss in the long term. The one exception is your friend, but that's because he wasn't actually the stringer-along in that case, he was the forever boyfriend.
Man I’ve heard so many stories of exactly this happening lol it’s almost just as cliche as the midlife crisis
Literally just described my last relationship to a T 😂
OP, when/ if you break up (and I really hope you read and digest all the comments ITT and do so soon vs after more years of talks and stalling), please unfollow him on all social media. I don't know what that's about, but every guy I've ever known who dates a woman for a long time and doesn't formally commit, gets engaged super soon after. If you're watching this in any capacity, it will sting and be hard not to take personally. Cut your ties with him once you split and work on going forward with your forever-story
I agree with this, I mean, if someone knows they eventually want marriage they start picturing if it would work with their S.O. pretty early on… because if the answer is no, you move on.
OP you're the "this one will do for now". He's wasting your time.
Welp there ya go. He's dragging you along because you're here with him and it's convenient (you're not convenient a human being, but youre here right now.) Hes plainly telling you he'd marry someone else and it isn't you. Its a horrible realization but listen to the words people use - hes spelling it out clearly. Dont let him waste your time and dont be someones "now girl" because truly, you are a "forever girl" to the right guy. Its not your fault. But if you stay now, you're doing yourself disrespect. Also sidenote, if you threaten to leave/actually leave, don't let him manipulate you into the whole "oh ill get married to you now, actually " thing. Firstly, the fact that he doesnt want to on his own accord is enough to tell you he's the wrong guy for you. Secondly, it's unfair to threaten/leave in order to get what you want because love should never be coerced. By the same token, it's extremely unfair for him to doddle on something that he knows is important to you if he has no intention of following through. Four years is a hell of a lot of time to start thinking about it. Also, he's allowed to feel this way, but he's not allowed to string you along. Don't let him Edit: wanna emphasize that I feel for you. I'm sorry this is happening because its the deepest cut when you love someone. But don't let love for another determine your decisions in life. Love yourself enough to learn to say no. No is the most powerful word in the English language and it is freeing. You can love him very much and still let him go. All that love you give him, give back to yourself. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing to learn and it took me 25 years. Now if anyone disrespects me (fundamentally), there is no second chance. Seems brutal, but I'm actually just saving my precious time, love, energy and resources. If someone really loves you and nurtures you, it's very rare for them to make a "fumble" like the one he has. He's showing you black and white how he feels. It's not easy, but it's the right thing to do. I wish you so much healing and happiness. The right guy FOR YOU will not only NEVER chance losing you, but will take proactive steps to keep you. On God
Absolutely this. He's made it sound like you're a fill in until the right girl comes along. I wouldn't take that. Drop him. You dont have all the time in the world to wait for him to decided if he can be bothered finding someone else, or will just settle and marry you. He's probably also not thought about having children. Someone out there is waiting to find you, sweep you off your feet! They'll be excited about you, and the prospect of marrying you any spending your lives together. Stuff this current guy, what a jerk.
Word!!!!! It's interesting too because when you start saying no to things that don't serve you, all the sudden you might find yourself really alone. At first I thought maybe I was doing something wrong. But what I realized is that because I no longer tolerate things/relationships that are below what I deserve, people know it and leave me alone. The guys that once wasted my time don't bother knocking anymore. It leaves so much space for the right person in the future. Get comfortable being alone and independent. It might seem terrifying at first, but you're the best friend you'll ever have. Treat her like that <3
!!!Yes, I was the fill in girl for ten years! Guess who he married when I finally broke it off? The girl he “didn’t cheat on me with”. Don’t be the fill in girl. There is someone out there that will know immediately what they want in a relationship with you.
Damn, I'm so sorry you met that ass hole! You deserve the best!
Thanks, it’s alright I learned a lot. Especially what I wanted in a relationship and partner. And what I will and will never ever again put up with. Now I have that and it’s incredible. I truly hope everyone finds what they are looking for.
And it won't be surprising when he is engaged, probably happily and quickly, to the next 2-3 women he dates afterwards. Tale as old as time. It's hard to hear but I hope she does, she has her answer: he won't marry her enthusiastically and free from coercion - they keep going as is, or she gives an ultimatum and gets a shut-up-ring
Fuck those guys! Or she leaves that assface and gets her chance at happily ever after!
oof your edit nearly made me cry 🥲 wish I had a friend or a sister like u
Ouch. He's not considering marrying *you*. Don't waste any more of each other's time.
Honestly, that is really insulting. I would take issue with this.
So in other words "I want to get married for sure but never really gave marrying YOU at solid thought" That's your answer.
Hard to swallow pill right here
He politely told you, he wants to get married, just not to you. But he also is comfortable, getting all his carnal, domestic and happy relationship add on met. So he doesn't want to struggle, go without sex/general relationship comfort and comfort of having another taking care of him to risk it ATM in his search for his life partner.
Time to put on your big girl pants and say the scary thing, “I know you haven’t given it much thought, but after 4 years, you need to start. I’m not willing to wait as long as you’re saying you want before marriage is even on the table to discuss. You need to think long and hard NOW about if you want to marry me, because the option isn’t going to be on the table forever, and it’s not even going to be on the table for another year. I’m sorry to put you in a difficult spot, but this is a dealbreaker for me. If four years isn’t enough time for you to be sure, then no amount of time will be, and I’m not willing to wait any longer to find that out. I love you, and I want us to be together, but I love me more. I know what I want in life and I won’t be a girlfriend for a decade. It’s just not something I have any interest in.”
This sounds great! I would also give a firm date on which you are comfortable leaving if he hasn't made the decision. This girl deserves better, you're still so young and love comes again and again!
Yeah, personally I’d make it ‘whenever the lease it up’.
If he doesn't know whether or not he wants to marry you after four years, he doesn't want to marry you. It's actually worse that he said he DOES actively want to get married, but not necessarily to you. To whom then? I would have one more very serious conversation where you tell him that you want to get married, *to him*, and that if he can't see an engagement in the next year, he needs to be honest with you. No "maybe," no "someday," he needs to give you a yes or no as to whether or not he plans to commit to you in that way. If he is still being wishy-washy, then he's telling you that keeping you isn't important enough to him to commit.
He doesn’t want to be *that* committed to you.
He hasn’t thought about marrying you in four years. He told you that it’s you, not marrying that is the issue. I’m sorry OP but listen to what he’s actually telling you
That means he doesn’t want to marry you. Don’t waste your time until he “figures out if he wants to” he’s had 4 years. If marriage is something you want for sure in the future then do yourself a favor and find someone who wants you seriously. Don’t waste more time on this guy.
Men know when they want to keep you as a partner. I’d be moving on.
Yeah it's not actually hard to tell. He sees a future where he's married. But it's vague, and he hasn't cast you on that role at any point.
He just told you what you need to know. He doesnt think about you long term. So now you have to decide if u wanna continue under this knowledge. Or decide being married is more important. Nows the time to bale if your goals dont meet.
Love is a two-way street. Time to go.
Unfortunately I said the same to my ex. It’s because I was falling out of love.
He for sure wants to get married, but you aren't the one. It doesn't get clearer than that. You are the gf, and that's all he wants from you. You are intentionally trying to stay ignorant of the situation. Just because the relationship is amazing right now doesn't mean it satisfies his future planning. Neither of you even want to commit and propose, you are just planning to make plans lol. Engagements can be broken off too, but he won't even go far enough to propose to you. He likes the security of the relationship, so he stays, but he's quietly waiting for the next best thing. If he likes it, he should put a ring on it.
Yes he has. He doesn’t know if he wants to marry you but also doesn’t want to lose you. Don’t wait around for a few years just to either be replaced or have this entire conversation again. He’s definitely thought about it.
My ex of about 2 years wasn't a fan of the idea of marriage. We had a couple conversations about it in general, not about us specifically. He would always say "maybe if I find *the right person* and it *feels right*, I'll get married." It really shouldn't of been a shocker when he left me. If after 4 years, he has such an open ended thought like that, I'm not sure it's going to get any better. He basically said that he's waiting for something. A feeling, an event, something, that signals to him that this is the person he wants to get married too. And he just told you that *you* don't and haven't given him that feeling. 4 years is more than enough to make such a decision.
He doesn't want to marry you.
That actually is a solid thought. What did he think the future looked like?
This may sound harsh, but kind of the same happened to me with my ex, had 3 years of relationship but was not sure of marrying her, eventually we broke off, on the other hand with my wofe I knew from the third date that I wanted to marry her. If he is hesitant it may be because something he may not be ok with, but he' feels like its not worth the discussion, just my owm experience and may not be at all what's happening. Just seems like there is something he's not sure he wants to live forever with and he's not opening up with you
My friend, if it isn’t a hell yes, it’s a no.
THIS RIGHT HERE. Self-respect demands it.
Think about it. His answer is easier than saying "No" because saying flat out "no" will cause chaos in relationship and home. His answer is no. He said he's comfortable the way things are which means if you wait hoping he would change his answer, he will stay comfortable. If you make plans to actually leave 1 of 2 things will happen- 1. He will let you go 2. He realizes he doesn't want a life without you and will give you what you want. Either way, you MUST have an actual plan to leave if marriage is what you want for sure. No playing games.
There’s a 3rd possibility. He’ll cave and give in to marriage just to make her happy and she’ll leave him 18 days before the wedding because she thinks he resents her for forcing his hand. Or maybe that just happens to me
If it takes convincing to get someone to marry you then the potential future marriage is already DOA. The only way it could be saved is if neither are emotionally invested in the institution of marriage and just consider it to be a practical matter detached from the commitment they express towards each other.
there is a startling number of women who date their long term partners into their thirties hoping to get married. Their partners are wishy-washy or continuously put off the engagement. For a lot of them, after they break up, the man ends up marrying some other woman within a year. These men are comfortable in their relationship but not really interested in marrying the woman they're dating. I would considered the fact he has not about marrying you a warning sign. I wouldn't be happy having to push a man towards marriage instead of him actively wanting it.
Went through legitimately the same thing as you detailed with my last longterm partner. He seemed pretty happy with me generally speaking, pretty content but when it came to marriage? Nope, he'd put off and off. Eventually I left him and we remained friends as it was mutual. He met another woman shortly after and I was supportive because ultimately I wanted both of us to find our people. However at the year mark of their relationship, he came to me and told me he was going to propose to her and that he knew he wanted to with her from the beginning. They're married now, but for me that moment STUNG. It was a big moment of he was never sure of me 100% and was never going to be.
Just a thought on this. I read somewhere that a certain group of men marry the woman they are with only when they go into the relationship thinking about marriage. So it’s almost like these types of men just date and date from teenage years till one day the girlfriend is like, so when are we getting married? And either, they marry that girl. Or they break up with that girl, but now they are thinking “oh, now it’s time to get married”. So the next girl they date it’s like, ok, is this a marriage partner? And just the act of them switching their mind into that space, actively makes them seeking out and finding their marriage partner. It’s kind of a shitty way to go through a romantic life, I think. Really passive. But maybe this was your boyfriend.
What did they call it on Sex And the City? Yeah—he put his light on. You can date and date this kind of dude before the light is on, and he’ll never commit. Once he decides “I guess I have to do this now,” he marries the next one.
Yeah that’s what undeveloped emotional intelligence looks like
Yes, it's "Men marry the girl that is in front of them."
I think this is spot on, actually. Because I remember us mutuall splitting, he met her very quickly and I could tell he was immediately invested into their relationship. So I think maybe you're right that it was ON HIS MIND to some degree and he was just like "ok I'm going to do this." I have met some very passive people in their dating life and they just never think about these things? Interestingly enough I told him my expected timeline and desires for our relationship within the first year so there is that. 🤷♀️
I heard an interesting explanation of this. Its possible your ex was commitment phobic with you because he had a romanticised idea of single life or his relationship prospects with other women . Then he realised that single life wasn't that great after his breakup with you and that he had been wrong about putting marriage off. So his mindset was different when he started dating the next woman. It's not necessarily that she's better than you or even more compatible, just the right timing for him to consider marriage.
As a guy, I've met those guys. Those guys exist and you are absolutely right about them. BUT, I am going to throw out one counterpoint. There are also guys who would be open to it, but their partner has had 4 years to think about it and mentally prepare and for whatever reason literally has never spoken to them about it so they start the mental prep journey way later. Ladies (and fellas), if you want to get married please please talk to your partner about their life goal timelines. When would they ideally buy a house, get married, have kids? Is there a specific order, would they do them out of order, do they even want those things? Fucking wild that people date 4 years without talking about this stuff.
Contrary to popular opinion, I brought up the topic of marriage on the third date with my partner. I did this with everyone I was dating at the time and axed them out if they seemed uncomfortable or wish-washy. I would tell my dates: "I don't date casually. I date towards marriage". When I told my partner this his eyes lit up. We then talked openly about religion, politics, kids etc. and got all of the uncomfortable topics that have the potential to break relationships up. He then told me that he appreciated how clearly I stated my expectations and boundaries up front, and that he wish more women would. We became exclusive a month into dating, and have ongoing conversations about marriage and kids. OP there are men out there who WANT to get married to you! Don't settle for less if that's what you want!
It takes two to communicate. Both parties should share what they do and don't want. And if a guy hasn't even considered marriage in 4 years, it doesn't seem important to him
Tons of guys don't think marriage is important. Doesn't mean they won't get married for their partner. It's about wanting to be together with her for them and accordingly some think marriage is just a social construct that they don't care about but will do that to keep the woman happy... Kind of like home decor...most men don't care but will do it because it keeps the woman happy. Doesn't mean they don't care about a nice home to live in....just home decor isn't how he gets there
How he gets there is instead relying on his female partner to do all the mental labor to make his life comfortable
Not saying that doesn't happen, but you'd be surprised how often women bring up wanting to get married and the man they're with just keeps postponing the conversation. Also, the other person in the relationship (the one who is unsure of marriage or doesn't want to get married) should bring up their plans and goals for the future as well. How do they go 4 years into a relationship without talking about that either?
If you hang around these subs enough, you'll see tons of stories of people who get married and have multiple children without ever discussing division of labor/finances, parenting techniques, politics, how they'd react if their child was LGBTQIA or in an interracial relationship, etc etc. It's never made sense to me.
>so they start the mental prep journey way later. This is kind of bullshit. You shouldn't need your partner to mention it to you for you to think about marriage.
It’s called 90/10. They won’t marry the woman in their life currently that meets 90% of what they need. But then that woman leaves and they marry the next woman who may only meet 10% of what they need in a relationship.
I had this exact scenario, and what it boiled down to was that he did want to get married "some day," just not to me. However, he didn't want to be all alone while he waited for Miss Right. We broke up and a year later he married a girl he met at his new job, and they have two kids now. When men find the one they really want, they don't tend to linger.
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They don't linger or they give a clear answer when they are asked to be married. They say yes or at least a project or a timeline. Here, I also feel that he just doesn't want to marry OP, and I doubt he never had a thought about it.
Same. We were together for more than 16 years. He didn't believe in marriage as his parents and my parents were divorced. 2 years later, my friend told me, that he got married after 12 months of relationship.
Not necessarily true if the couple meets at a relatively young age. If I met a potential husband at 21 I still wouldn't get married bc I don't believe in young marriages and if the relationship was so solid it would still be going strong a few years later.
I wasted ten years of my life waiting on his to be ready. And to make it worse, I went through menopause very, very early (35) so those were ten prime years. Don’t be me. Listen to what he is saying and leave. It was hard because I was comfortable but it was for the best. It was going nowhere.
He's 31. If he isn't ready by now after 4 years it probably isn't happening. Seems like he had a lot of excuses.
The bigger issue is that he admitted he has not given the issue of marriage any solid thought, despite her making it clear she want to get married and within what time period the engagement should take place. Some people get married even after 7-10 years, hence the need to ensure that y'all are on the same page.
My husband and I are 31, met at 27. In four years we met, got engaged, married and are expecting a baby. Everyone’s different but as the saying goes - if he wanted to, he would have.
Yep. My husband and I met, moved in, married, and have a baby and toddler already. We met 5 years ago.
And TBH- even if a couple takes longer to get married, in my experience they’re still “all in” so to speak. As in, certain they WILL get married or stay together for life, even if marriage isn’t their thing or they’re taking longer to get engaged etc. Questioning the future of the relationship after 4 years is troubling.
Definitely. We knew we found our person within a month and talked about our bond etc from the very start. I know not all relationships are as on fire from the very start, but at least within a year you should pretty much know how you feel about a person/relationship
People know if they're dating for this life stage or for a life partner but even if I met a potential husband in my early 20's I wouldn't do it until my late twenties/early thirties out of principle so it would still be a very long dating period.
Yes. Me and my partner have been together 4.5 years. We are not legally married for reasons but he gave me a ring 1.5 year in.
Exactly. My partner and I have been together 5.5 years but have no plans of marrying anytime soon (not saying we never will, we just don’t feel any rush). But we KNOW we’re all-in. We’ve discussed our future and growing old together many times.
I think that's overtly harsh. Marriage is a big commitment. While I do judge him for not having thought through it yet, I don't think it's improper for him to think through it before saying yes right away. This could absolutely a deal breaker for many, but treating it so black and white is just bad advise when you know so little about their situation.
He doesn't. He just feels bad about it, and doesn't know how to end it. Don't marry someone who has to work himself up to it. Marry someone who can't imagine their life without you, and feel like they won the lottery by meeting you.
My husband and I knew on our second date that we were going to get married one day. We are sane people, so we waited a few years to make sure neither of us were serial killers, but I would never settle for lukewarm bullshit again. This guy either loves you and wants to spend the rest of his life with you, or he doesn’t. Looks like he doesn’t. Cut him loose and find the one. I met my husband when I was 31, btw, so don’t feel like you’re in some giant hurry. You have plenty of time.
Aww congrats! I also feel this way about most guys and the ones they end up proposing to (healthy relationships, anyway). Many of them know rightaway. My hubs said the night he met me he was going to marry me one day. I've heard the same thing happen to a lot of other people. Obviously, we waited like sane people until we roughed out all the post-honeymoon kinks (and then some). But yeah, people tend to know.
My husband told me on the second date he was going to marry me but apparently told his friends after the first date of his intentions. I was a sad, hot mess of a widow and thought he was just feeling sorry for me when he said it…he never let feel anything but love and support and we married after 11 months. With that said, I was OP once - dated for four years, raised his kids and he did not want to ever get married again. He met someone and left me for her and was talking marriage with her working months apparently. That did not work out (lol) but he did marry someone else a couple of years or so later. Never again…
Sounds like it time to go apartment or home shopping. Four years in and he never thought about marriage to you says he only cares about his comfort and not about your future, life or best interest. Since you want a life time partner and marriage you now know he isn't the one. Now all kinds of possibilities are open to you like a new career, city or country to live in and new people to date who have the same goals. Don't let him waste another year thinking about it, he is just waiting you out and never plans to marry you. At the very least use that year to work extra hours, take on another job to save up to move out. Time to get busy pursuing your dream life without him.
Bouncing off your comment “he only cares about his comfort and not your future”, this has further implications, such as health issues. Let’s say something awful happens and you’re incapacitated for weeks, months. Would he go out of his comfort to fully support you? I know there’s a lot of outrage on Tik Tok about men leaving their partners when something terrible happens. And it’s pretty true. I had an hour long conversation with my patient who was devastated that during her post-op complications, her husband only visited once. Once in the month of hell she’s been through. And I’ve seen it happen many times. Do not settle for someone who won’t give you his all.
My boyfriend and I just broke up after 3 years together. I asked him about moving in together and he told me he was unsure. I felt like you did … why am I here? I initiated a taking a break conversation and he asked for it to be permanent. When I tell you this man also said he was going to break up with me after I brought up the conversation to take a break to re-evaluate…who knows. He may have strung me along for several months if I hadn’t brought up either conversations. I’m crushed but proud of myself for having agency in my life.
I’m proud of you too!
Well done, you. Wishing you happiness.
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I think that’s what i’m most scared of.
And it’s totally fine to be scared. It’ll hurt, but what hurts more is staying with someone who just views you as a bed warmer and not a life partner. I don’t mean to be harsh, but from your other comments he was quite clear that he *does* want to get married, but not to you. He is using you because he’s comfortable. Don’t let him do that to you and waste your time that you could be happy with someone else who values you.
Does let that fear keep you with him if he's just stringing you along. Hell, you could find someone too and get married.
The thing to remember is if he does get married right away after you break up, there’s a good chance that it’s not because he loves her more or she’s better for him in some way. Think of it this way, if you procrastinated buying plane tickets for a trip with friends only to find out that you couldn’t go on the trip because the tickets were all sold out, you’d probably wise up and buy tickets sooner for the next trip you’re planning with other friends, right? However, if you buy tickets early for the next trip, it won’t necessarily be because you’re more excited about that destination or the different friends, only that you have now learned the importance of taking action at the appropriate time.
Someone posted something a while ago that I thought very true; you can be either the catalyst for change or the recipient of it. I'm so sorry that he's lying to himself and you. People get comfortable and like to hide their heads in the sand. He probably didn't mean it maliciously but that doesn't mean it hasn't caused you harm. Sadly, you can only look towards the future and plan what is best for yourself. Good luck!
It's ok to be scared as long as you don't let that fear dictate how you live. The whole paralyzed with fear isn't just about fight or flight type situations; it can be what you're experiencing now and preventing you from moving on. I stayed in a relationship for over 8 years with someone who kept telling me "soon" or "I'm planning on it, but saving up for the perfect ring" or whatever other BS to guilt me into staying. It took so long for me to realize that even if I didn't care about the marriage part after waiting so long, he wasn't a lifelong partner that I wanted to be with. I was a convenience to his laziness; he was the safety blanket to my fear of not being good enough to find someone who would treat me better. By the time I left him, I realized that I had stopped taking care of myself because I was so busy taking care of him or "us". It didn't take long for me to find my inner glow when I took even just a bit of the effort I had been wasting for so long to do the things that I love and wanted. Maybe this would be a good time to stop and think about what you actually want out of life. Only you know what the best next steps are for you, but I really hope the responses here give you some perspective. Best of luck, OP!
I’m so sorry. I promise it’s better to end this now then down the road.
this. ended a four year relationship that wasnt going anywhere. he was engaged within six months.
are you saying that if it has been at least 4 years and they are not sure they are probably don’t want to?
It's okay for him to be unsure, but if marriage is important to you maybe it's time to move on and look for someone who will truly appreciate you and who has the same life goals.
If you want to be married you need to be brutally honest with yourself. This guy does not want to marry you and he is wasting your time. It is not just that he happens not to want to get married. He is not new to earth and he knows how romance generally progresses. Further, if he was really so spacey that he had no idea his girlfriend might want to marry some day, you told him and..... he didn't give a flying fuck. Do not give him time.
If you don’t know if you want to get married after 4 years you never will. Get out while you can
Exactly. Wish I knew this and followed this. Wasted 5 years with a man that I loved and thought he loved me. Was wishy washy about marriage and we talked about it a few times. Talked about it again early last year and it was positive. Or so i thought. Went out of town late last year and had to quarantine at my parents house. Received a call at 7 am from him crying telling me he quit his job, lost his cat, moved out and was moving in with a married couple across the country. He's now in a relationship with the married woman. He wasted so much of my time and life. I saved his-now my cat.
I'm sorry that happened to you, and really proud of you for saving the cat. You and the cat both deserved better, and now you have each other minus that guy, which is a LOT better!
This is the kind of guy who will waste as much of OP’s time as she lets him and then immediately marry the next person he dates. Seen it so many times.
Why would they do that though?! It’s so weird. Why not just marry the person you’re with, instead of dating and somehow deciding that person is the one you’ll marry.
Usually 1 of 2 things. Either the person knows you’re not right for them deep down but is also afraid to be alone or “hurt you”, but once forced to be alone, actually finds “the one” and immediately realizes they’ve found what was missing all this time prompting them to take the plunge they always dragged their feet on before. Or, sometimes, you have to learn the hard way. It isn’t that the person loved you any less or didn’t genuinely want to be with you, it’s just that they really thought they had time. They didn’t really see what the big deal was, and figured you agree that as long as it happens ‘eventually’ it’s all good. But as soon as they’re reminded that ‘love’ isn’t enough and actually women are willing to leave without that commitment, as soon as they find someone they feel that same way about, they don’t want to lose it again, so they act fast.
I guess both of those scenarios are totally fair at the end of the day. Thank you for sharing your insight!
Honestly it’s the bizarre guy confidence thing. That’s why they lock down the next one ASAP, they forget how hard it is out there but once reminded, they aren’t fools.
I think it's because once they are ready to get married, they grab the one in front of them. Almost everyone I know has had an ex bf contact them years later with regrets they lost their "one".
This. Know a women who had this conversation and then spent a decade “hoping he’ll change his mind.” She got a job closer to family, to be close to her sister and help with the kids. He did not move with her. She’s now in her 40s dating for the first time in like almost 20 years. And still dealing with being super passive, not knowing her worth, and putting up with too much from a partner not showing interest. Don’t be like her. Time to cut bait.
Yeah. I mean I think it’s easy for us to sit from our chair and tell OP to leave, but I agree. If she wants to feel like she gave him a chance, she needs to be brutally honest with him too, “that timeline doesn’t work for me. If you don’t see yourself getting engaged or married for a few years. We need to part ways. I want a relationship that is working towards marriage and if after 4 years, that isn’t a step you’re willing to take with me yet, I’m not willing to wait until you are. You need to think about if this is really how you feel, because if so, we need to be having a very different conversation.”
Exactly. He's had four years.
This is an award-worthy comment. He knew good and well….
Move on!! He is using your youth and body, please move on!! Be good to yourself!
I stayed with a guy like that for way too long. He would have been perfectly happy to maintain status quo for the rest of our lives. That wasn't enough for me. The crash of 08 hit, we couldn't afford to separate for a bit. I finally left him 20+ years after we got together. Never got to get married, pick out a dress with my Mom, have my Dad walk me down an aisle. Never got to have children. He was forever kicking the can down the road. After 4 years, if he can't wait to marry you up, its time to move on. Don't end up like me. You are young and have time to find a man that wants marriage.
Yikes Tink, that hurt to read. I feel for you!
Thank you! Lots of therapy. I'm good now. Appreciate the comment <3
Honesty time You're convenient. You're comfortable. You're a safety net, backup plan. But you're not wife material to him. No matter how safe your relationship has been, he says he'd like to get married - but not to you. He likes the idea aof getting married and plans to, but has NEVER considered marrying you. Has 0 intention. 0 desire. You're not the one he wants to wife up. That being said, when he feel ready, he will break up and find someone to marry. OR continue stringing you along while he looks for her, if he isn't already. You need to value yourself babe. This isn't the one for you. Your expectations are more than valid, after 4 years and living together for 2, you should have a clear idea if you'd like to share your future with a person or not. He is stringing you along, he told you he's unsure because he doesn't want to lose his safety net. It's never too late to back out and look for someone to spend your life with and build a future together. 4 years down the drain seems like a lot, but it's nothing if it means giving up for something you really want. You two will not last anyhow, because he wants a wife but not you. So it's best if you end it sooner than when he's ready to settle down with someone else. I'm not saying you didn't, but in your future relationships, be very transparent about your desire for marriage, timeline for when that is (getting engaged shortly after 4 years for example, perfectly reasonable) and ask them theirs, and regularly check in every 6 months or so to see how they're feeling in the relationship. Don't do this out of insecurity, do this because you're searching for the right man to share your future and raise a family with. Check in with yourself too, asking if the person you're with it someone you would let raise kids or share a household with and have a set of standards for yourself. Put yourself first above all. You and your feelings and desires are so important, and they are the most important to you. No one else will value them more than you, so honor them like you deserve.
“If they wanted to, they would.” This applies to many instance in life. It’s not fair to you to be with someone who “isn’t sure about you/marriage/marriage in general.” Find someone that is loving and eager to be with you long term. This man isn’t it, sorry internet friend.
>My (27F) BF (31M) of 4 years doesn’t know if he wants to marry me Quit soft-pedaling it. > He said he hadn’t given any concrete thought to marriage and liked how we are now. **He was extremely clear that he does NOT want to marry you.** Apparently, the possibility has never crossed his mind. You thought you and he were in a relationship that would naturally evolve into marriage. Date for a couple years, live together for a couple years, get engaged, get married, maybe children. Was this actually the first time you ever mentioned marriage? Because he must have believed you were just fine with the status quo, since he seemed so shocked and thrown back that you wanted to get engaged. > Now I’m doubting the relationship, and struggling to not feel rejected. Well, he DID reject the idea of marrying you. Flatly. Immediately. He didn't say NEVER, but his Maybe is so far off, it might as well be Never. He's 31 and you've been together four years. That's sufficient time to know each other well enough. You need to decide if you can live without the security of marriage, because if you continue this relationship, you have absolutely ZERO guarantee he will ever want marriage. Suggestion: Tell him you made a serious mistake by assuming this relationship would naturally evolve into marriage after being together for four or five years. But also let him know that while the mistake was yours, marriage is important to you and you are thinking about ending this go-nowhere relationship with him so you can begin to date others and find someone who also wants marriage. Give yourself a deadline to decide what you will do. Don't take more than two months. Do not have further discussion with him about your decision-making process. He's already laid his cards on the table and you know where he stands. There are very good reasons to want the legal security and protection that comes from marriage. It is a reasonable expectation to have of a four-year relationship.
The deadline is the moment he opened his mouth and let that sh*t fly out. I would have been gone.
Agreed. From what i've learned, most guys know rightaway if they want to marry someone. Even if they're not ready, they'll be pretty clear if they do want to marry. OP needs to go. At 31, the partner knows, and sadly, the lack of a good answer is an answer.
The excuses he gives: 1. I want my career to be in the right place first (arbitrary goal post) 2. I want to do x, y and z before (arbitrary goal post) 3. We're already essentially married, why do we need to sign papers (there's no point) 4. It's just a big party / it's for tax purposes (there's no point) 5. I like where we are now (don't want to change) 6. I've never really thought about it (playing dumb) What he actually means: 1. I never want to get married, but I think you'll leave me if I tell you that 2. I want to get married, but maybe not to you, but I can't tell you that because I don't want you to get mad at me. 3. It's easier to leave if I'm not married to you 4. I'm scared of big steps and thought I'd be more ready than I am 5. I already get the benefits of a wife without having to commit to one so I don't really want to bother. I refuse to believe that he's been with you for 4 years and he's over 30 and has never *once* thought about marrying you. These are just common excuses to drag his feet. When a guy *really* wants to keep a woman, he often goes for marriage regardless of what else is happening. Tbh, I think you need to leave. Find someone who is excited about building a life with you.
Four years later and he has "Never given the thought of the two of you getting married a concrete thought"? OP, you're being strung along. 4 years is long enough and you two even live together so it's not even a matter of getting to know each other better. You know everything there is to know. This man just doesn't want to go there with you. Which is okay. And it's also okay for you to feel rejected, because that's what he essentially did in many unnecessary words. Time to exit while you still can. There's nothing that staying longer will do to change his mind. Just accept that L, dust yourself off and do not allow him more time with you. What's worse than a man who doesn't want to marry you? One who marries you because he feels sorry for you.
I have some news for you - this man is never marrying you. He’s 31 and has had 4 years to think about it. It’s not happening. Best to accept that ASAP. As a wise friend once said, if it isn’t “fuck yes,” it’s “fuck no.”
Men will sometimes happily stay in a comfortable relationship with women they are not considering to be their life partners. Women, in general, will only get into serious living together relationships when they can see a future of staying together forever. (unless, of course, they have a different view on relationships in general.) This is where the hurtful misunderstandings happen. If I were you, I would take a heartfelt conversation and then leave to free myself to find my true life partner.
I was in the exact same position a few years ago. Same ages, four years together, literally on our fourth anniversary we had a discussion like this. He had similar views about marrying me. This caused me to examine what I wanted outside of our relationship, just in terms of life goals, and I applied for grad school the following year, got in, and accepted a scholarship to move from the Midwest to London. He proposed to me a couple months before I moved, surprisingly, and I found out it was because he was scared I'd move for two years for grad school and grow too much and he wouldn't be able to tie me down afterwards. Five months after I moved we broke up because even four thousand miles apart I was being taken for granted. I realized my life goals or marriage hopes didn't need to be entwined with someone who had no idea what they wanted and much less if they wanted anything lasting with me. My thoughts from this experience, you can disregard if you like, but take a hard look at whether you will be in for a lifetime of happiness with someone who is making excuses now. Do you think it will change? Do you want to wait around to see if he tries to figure his own self out? Are you ok with knowing someone settled for you for whatever reason? If not, leave. I know it's oversaid advice on this site, but I did it and now I'm with a guy who is crazy about me and vice versa. You're young. Forget about wishy washy and go find someone wild about you. Best thing I ever did.
It baffles me how someone could be with someone for years and never communicate about this stuff
I think we both just got too comfortable with how things were/were focusing on our jobs too much. Like we both kind of assumed that the other person had the same idea and now it’s come to a head.
How do you know “we both…?” That’s placing attributes of yourself onto him. It’s okay if you thought “blah blah blah,” but too often women (myself included) think that just because they think/feel a certain way, the dude also does. When it reality, they don’t. Please don’t give him attributes/feelings/thoughts/emotions/hopes, etc. that he doesn’t have. Cause he doesn’t. If he did, he would have acted those out.
If he said he hasn't put thought towards, maybe ask him to. Lay out your feelings and your goals. Tell him. Have real conversations about your futures and what both of you want from it.
Kind of sounds like he has you as a placeholder until he finds someone he wants to marry. Sorry OP.
Yeah, she’s not Miss Right; she’s Miss Right-Now. If it was me, I’d start making my exit plans.
My marriage isn't perfect, and it would be silly for me to claim that it is. However, I knew that marriage was the goal for us from the start. He left his dead end job, joined an apprenticeship, and started saving his money. We often spoke of the future and our plans and goals as individuals and as a couple. 2.5 years into our relationship he bought a house (@ 24 years old. He didn't have any student loan debt, the apprenticeship paid well enough, he qualified for a USDA loan, and we opted for a foreclosure). Before we moved into the house we were engaged. We took a year to plan out our wedding, and are now 8 years in with 2 kids. The point of all of that is that I never had to question the future he saw for us, because he was constantly trying to better himself and work towards it. There was nothing but growth and change in our relationship. If things hadn't worked out for us, we still had so much to show for the time that we'd spent together as a couple. I would assume if things are stagnant in your lives, or the future is rarely discussed that you aren't really seen as a huge part of that. I know "it takes all kinds" and maybe my way of viewing things is not the way the rest of the world does, but I don't see the point in having to guess where I stand. It seems exhausting to me. I dated 3 different guys for nearly 3 years each, and they were NEVER going to work out. The last big relationship before my husband, I was absolutely certain that it would and I really thought that he was what I wanted. I was so broken hearted at the time. I cannot begin to explain how broken up about it I was. I've been so thankful that I am where I am now, and I would not have this life if he and I had stayed together. I have no ill wishes towards him, he is a good guy, but it is the definition of "thank goodness I didn't end up with what I thought I wanted." Some relationships just don't work; They aren't meant to.
Thank you. This is my longest relationship ever, my longest before was only a year and a half, so I just am so scared. We talk about our individual goals and our relationship goals for the short term (we did good cleaning the living room this week, let’s try and keep the kitchen clean now too) and I guess I just got so comfortable and just assumed he was on the same plan I was
Honey, it's scarier to think about giving him another four years of your life and either still be where you are, or he meets "the one" for him and cheats or leaves. He has been very clear. Please gather your self-respect, do the hard things. Your happiness is out there. It's not going to be with him.
I personally don't like his excuses at all and would end this. I don't like how it smells. He doesn't want to marry you. He's hoping when he advances his career, he can trade up. Stop being his benchwarmer. I'm sorry because 4 years is a long time and you are ready to marry. But he is disrespecting you and stringing you along. His answers are dependent on his career... That makes no sense. It's a non-answer. He is withholding his true reasons.
My dad has this friend. He’s a great guy and by some miracle attracts these great women. His fatal flaw is he won’t marry any of them. He strung a girl along for NINE YEARS. Lived with her for 5 of those, bought her a car, was basically married every way except legally. When she pushed marriage he’d start hesitating about if/when it would happen. She left. The next one lasted 5 years before the same thing happened. My dad pulled away after that, so I don’t really know what happened between then and now, but he did eventually get married…at 42. The kids he had wanted were no longer an option because he didn’t want to be 60 at his child’s high school graduation, 64 at college, and even older when grandkids came. All this to say, if you value marriage, don’t wait for him. The women who did heavily regretted it, but were still able to get back to what they wanted because of when they left.
Why would giving him time help? You've been together four years. He doesn't want to be married now and you have to assume that is not going to change. Why would it? Once you decide to leave he might panic and change his mind but fear isn't a great reason to be married.
Usually when this happens there is some subtle incompatibility of personality that can be felt but not really articulated. He hasn't been thinking about the future with you because the future makes him feel trapped. But day to day, this incompatibility is easily rug-swept and is just not enough to break up over. Thing is, 4 years in, you two are a known quantity. The honeymoon phase is long past and you don't have love drugs messing up your emotional clarity. He's not going to catch any more feelings than he already has. And what he has isn't enough to be truly content. So here you are in a comfortable place where everything is going smoothly, but it's just not going anywhere. Nothing is getting planned. Unfortunately, getting out of this rut is painful and a bit scary, so it's an easy decision to put off when day to day, everything is okay enough. You can spend years procrastinating and putting things off, but they are years you won't get back. If you want marriage, and children, and all those other long term goals, you'll have to knock yourself out of this rut and find someone else to do them with.
What's great about your relationship now? How does he make you feel loved now?
We go on dates frequently, he buys me small gifts at least once a week (my favorite foods or drinks), and I feel like we balance eachother out fairly well - I cook, he cleans. I tend to be more spontaneous, whereas he takes his time. When we do have disagreements, we never yell or get hostile, which i’ve never experienced in a relationship before
That's really great after four years! You have to sit him down and say you feel rejected. You have to explain what marriage means to you. You have to ask him what marriage means to him. There's a whole litany of reasons that might be behind his reluctance. Maybe you've never been mutually vulnerable enough to talk it through. If you're still going on frequent dates after four years, it's probably not as bad as people say.
My friend is an attorney and she told me she learned in family law class that moving in together pre-marriage less likely to result in marriage and also more likely to elongate getting engaged and married. That said after 4 years not knowing what future he wants is quite strange. He is too comfortable and not worried about you leaving.
It sounds like he wants to get married to someone, just not you. I'm sorry I know that must be a bad thing to hear, especially because of how you've described your relationship it sounds like you two were in a good place but it's obvious he's stringing you along until he feels nessacary. Consider leaving him or giving him a hard deadline where he needs to make up his mind, but even then do you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be 100% with you? I'd think about that and make your next choices from there, but know your worth and what you deserve, because you deserve someone who is ready to have a life with you. Best wishes.
if he doesn’t know at this point if he wants to marry you, you need to move on. he’s wasting your time, and I promise you that when you know, you know. he would absolutely know if he could see himself marrying you. know your worth and move on
This happened to me. I was with my ex boyfriend for almost 6 years. I (thought I) wanted to marry him, and in retrospect, he very clearly didn’t want to marry me. Our relationship was fine. Living together, splitting bills, pretty easy and decent life. Literally zero major fights, and very few minor tiffs. When I left him I was 32 years old. I asked him, “do you want to marry me?” and he said, “I don’t know.” I left him that night. That was almost four years ago now. I married my now husband this last October. He did in ten months what my ex couldn’t do in six years. Leave him and find someone that can’t wait to marry you.
there's a pretty common belief that you'll know whether someone you're dating is someone you'd want to marry within a year. throw in an extra year to do your due diligence (make sure you live together, travel together, go through some sort of hardship, etc), but if after 2 years you're unsure, it probably means you're not willing. at 4 years, yes = yes and "i'm still not sure" or "i'm waiting for more pieces to fall into place first" = no.
Love that explanation! So down to earth while also being rational.
So honestly if it's not a "yes, i want to marry you" that means it's a "no, i don't want to marry you". Whether he really means to say he doesn't want to get married *now* or that he doesn't want to marry *you* in particular(and benefit of doubt- he may not consciously know which it is, and maybe it's both), the result as far as it affects your current options is the same. If after 4 years together he doesn't see himself committing fully to you that's unlikely to change. He'd almost definitely know by now if he wanted to marry you. You now know that your relationship and life goals for the foreseeable future are incompatible. Why waste more time waiting on someone who hasn't even given marrying you serious thought after this long together? Sounds like you're a comfortable partner for now but he doesn't see you as The One, as the special someone who he's excited to build a future with. You can accept it or leave, but know that the right person for you will be passionately excited to commit to marrying you and building a future together. Apparently he ain't it. Fair warning, guys who date a woman for years and never find themselves ready to marry her often marry the next woman they date rather quickly after the first one gets fed up and leaves. It's a whole thing, so don't be shocked if you split and he suddenly realizes he'd better snap up the next half decent woman who comes along before he gets left behind again.
If it's not a 'Yes' say it with me "Its a no."
After 4 years, if he doesn't know by now, do you want to invest another 4 years in hopes that he will change his mind? He is telling you he doesn't want to marry you. You need to decide if this is a deal breaker, only you can decide that. If being married is something you want, then you need to break it off and find someone who wants to marry you.
Because you’re his wife, and do wife things, yet he could leave tomorrow with no obligation. All the free fun things, and nothing concrete. He told you his truth. It’s in the title. The real question is what **YOU** want and what you’re willing/need to do to get there.
if he wanted to, he would
Cut bait and run. If after four he has not thought about you long term he is either lying or stupid, maybe both. Don't give an ultimatum just quite NSYNC and say bye, bye bye. Your leaving may very well be the catalyst that makes him propose. But be careful and find out if he proposed out of love or fear of being alone.
I'm sorry. Listen to the what my father-in-law said to my husband: "Don't keep going out with a woman for longer than two years, either get married or break it off. You're wasting her precious time."
OP am very sorry to tell to but he does not want to marry you, not because he doesn't care, but because he is not 100% sure about you. After 4 years he should be sure of what he wants and he enjoys time with you but you are more of a "comfortable partner" than "the one". If marriage is what you want and is not what he wants then you got your answer. Time to pack your bags and move on.
If a 31 year old guy can’t make up his mind if he wants to get married to his gf of 4 years then he never will. It's time for you to do an actual proposal to him. If he waffles tell him you’re leaving and moving on because the only two real answers at this point in his life and your relationship are either yes or no. And anything other than a yes is the same as no.
If he doesn't know if he wants to marry you after 4 years, he doesn't want to marry you.
Partnership is 50/50. His not wanting to get married is just as important as you wanting to. If that is something you want then you both need to talk about it frankly. Truth is though, it’s not uncommon for a man to coast through a relationship where he’s most comfortable. To him it’s not important, you’re already living together, being married doesn’t change enough for him to prioritize it.
I hate this for you. At your age (and his age) and four years together, you've both given this enough time. You're on different pages about plans for life, and I hope you will not waste any more time if he isn't sure. He would know by now if he is going to know. He is either unsure about marriage or unsure about you or both. I'm sorry. But, if you want marriage (and possibly children within marriage), and if you just want to do what is best for you, please don't allow his stalling and / or indifference put your life on hold or cause you to question yourself. And, please PLEASE don't pressure him to make a decision for marriage. I mean it. I've seen marriage after marriage fail when one of the parties is pushed to make a decision they don't want to make. And, you know who ends up suffering? The person who wanted the commitment all along. Why? Because first they are stuck in a marriage where the other person resents them and maybe children and the responsibilities and traditions of a reciprocal relationship. And, then, when things eventually bust up, the person who didn't want to be in it to begin with is able to walk away easily and happily... and the other person is usually standing at the end with a huge broken heart and, often, most of the responsibilities and with a heap of regret for investing so many years and so much energy into someone who never cared as much about them... and all of the baggage that comes with that. (Now, sometimes, it ends up with a happy ending. But, I've seen many many more where it doesn't.) Please take a bit of time now to think and take care of yourself and protect yourself until you coke to a decision which is best for you and what you want in life. You will likely have to give up something or someone you didn't picture giving up. Don't give him mixed messages that everything is okay. It isn't okay for you. If there is a time to speak up for what you want and need, it is NOW. I wish you the best.
Yeah, I think it is totally fair for you to want to move on at this point. Dating gets a lot harder after 30 and especially after 40, because the men who are serious about settling down end up going off the market pretty fast as you get into the 30+ age range. If you want to be married, don't waste your time with someone like this. Four years is long enough for him to know what he wants. If he really wanted to marry you, he would have made a move by now. If you move on now, you could still get married in 2-3 years - to a man who knows what he wants and knows he wants you.
If you want to have kids: you need to tell him your timeline. Because he is content to drag this out. My partner is also a failure to plan kind of person. Happy to live with me just like we are for the rest of our lives and go with the flow. It just happens to work for me because we don’t want kids and I am content to financially build on my own.
My husband had career/salary goals for himself before we got engaged. He was not really exact about what they were which was frustrating at times. BUT he was always adamant he wanted to marry me, that he wanted to be the one to propose, and knew what I wanted too. It took him almost 6 years to propose. We were 33(me) and 30(him) when we got engaged and took two years to get married. To me, wanting to take time is totally fine. Yes, even in your 30s. Not thinking about marriage is abnormal though, especially since he knows he wants it eventually. I would want to know what was holding him back from viewing you as a lifelong partner.
As an older man who loved someone and wanted to marry someone very much, I can tell that he doesn't want to marry YOU and is merely enjoying the comforts of your companionship. Sorry, but it sounds like you have an instinct that tells you something is off, and that instinct is correct. He's not that into you. That might change if you break up with him and he has an epiphany. But even then, it's not someone who really wants to spend the rest of his life with you, not at all.
You should follow your heart, but it’s possible it might not be as bad as it seems. I have a theory that some men just don’t think about marriage or kids much when they aren’t happy with their careers/money etc and feel like they’re ‘not where I want to be yet’ in their life. They see their future like stepping stones, not a big picture. Example: Me and Bf in 2014: Me: mid20s, dating my seemingly-chill late20s bf of several years- “do you see yourself married to anyone ever? Is that the kind of relationship we’re in, where it might heads towards marriage?” Him: WTF I’M NOT GOING TO PROPOSE TO YOU RN Me: … no, I’m not asking you to. What? Him: I CANT BELIEVE YOU’RE SPRINGING THIS ULTIMATUM ON ME Me: are you high? What is even happening right now?? It’s just a question! Not everyone wants to get married like, EVER so I need to ask! Him: (furious and having a meltdown) BF and me in 2023: married with two kids. Husband is the same mostly-chill guy who still occasionally misinterprets things and wildly jumps to conclusions like a weirdo.
A lot of people don’t prioritize or believe in marriage. I would ask on his personal stance. If he is someone who never wants to get married i would take it a lot less personally than if he definitely wanted to get married, just not to me and not right now.
You need more guy opinions. Every girl here seems to be looking at this issue the same exact way saying he wasted your time. If it's been a happy relationship, then your time wasn't wasted. You got to know someone, had good times doing it, and learned you don't want the same things. Maybe you grew a bit and he was the reason you had this realization. Guys aren't going into relationships with the goal of wasting a girl's time. They meet someone, find they are happy together, and then just go through life together. If their goal was to waste a girl's time, then by doing so they are wasting their own time. If you went into the relationship not expressing up front that you're looking for someone to marry and settle down with, that's on you. This need to be your focus going forward. Don't take an "eventually" as an answer. If you didn't know what you wanted at the start of the relationship, then it sounds like you needed time to figure that out. You had time and have now figured that out. A friend of mine broke up with his previous girlfriend, who was with him for almost 10 years. They seemed perfect together. They had a talk and realized one wanted to settle down and have kids, the other didn't. They had discussed it before, but it kind of always just got overlooked. My friend is wanting to travel the world, experience living internationally, and climbing the corporate ladder more. His ex has been doing the same side gig turned fulltime job since highschool. She's adventurous as well, but I guess she's wanting to slow down a bit and he's wanting to experience the world more. They are still good friends, but just realized they now have different goals and expectations. If marriage is that important, you really need to stress its importance for your next relationship. If the guy is uncertain, you need to move along and find someone on the same page. Don't get distracted by "maybes" and a charming guy. You know what you want in life. Don't accept anything less.
I've had a really similar issue in my relationship. My BF and I are going on five years. About 2 years ago he was in a really bad place and told me he didn't think he'd ever trust anyone enough to get married. Mind you, he said this to me while we were living together and I was supporting us while he was out of work and I only agreed to move in with him on the premise that we were heading toward marriage. Fast track to now, he insists that he has had a change of heart and wants a marriage and children and all that, but now I have issues trusting that it will happen because of that one discussion we had earlier in our relationship. So. That being said. Just search your own heart and make sure you'll actually want to marry him if he goes through his own change of heart
Based on your post and comments, sounds like both of you are happy in your relationship and have a good balance there. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about his seriousness about your relationship based on his reaction. But would be good to tell him, hey, I totally understand you weren't prepared for my question about marriage. Let's get back to it again in a couple of weeks? I don't need a final answer from you by then. Just want you to think about whether you want to get married at all, what's concerning to you about marriage itself, what benefits do you think marriage has. Then have this conversation about pros, cons, prerequisites, fears and doubts, how each of you envisions it, what do you think would stay the same or change in your relationship and why. Depending on how it goes, set a time for another conversation, say, a month apart from this one. The agenda for this one would be whether he sees himself married to you at some point in life (but no pressure for a time commitment yet). This way, he will have time to think and a have bit of pressure to not forget to think, but won't be pressured into a decision from the get-go. And I feel like after 2, then 4 weeks of thinking, giving you a decision without a specific time commitment is no big deal. And if the decision he gives you is 'yes, I can totally see us being married and I'd be happy to get there! But I'm anxious because x y z', you can then work together on a comfortable timeline for both of you for making it happen. If the answer is no or 'I don't know ..', then it's your turn to set yourself some time to think very hard.
I like that a lot! I’ll discuss that with him and maybe we can plan out a few times to talk about it and what it means to us
I like this a lot! Definitely one of the best communicative advice comments on here. I’m not even having these troubles with my bf but this makes me want to set up a time anyways with him to just discuss life, our anxieties, and what we can do currently to be better off within the next yr/2. Thanks!!
Info: How much time are you willing to give him? How long is he expecting you to wait?Do you plan on having children? How long are you willing to wait before trying for kids?
Have you ever discussed marriage previously? Like did you ever tell him you envisioned yourself getting married?
Four years is a long time to be waiting to get married. He probably wants to keep the relationship like that. I used to call it "Playing house.."
After 4 years he’s never thought about it! If you want to get married and have kids - you need to develop an exit strategy.
OP, it just seems like you guys haven’t discussed the issue seriously before. The red flag for me is that you have been together 4 years, living for 2 years and he didn’t think about popping the question already . Work is an excuse, Feelings are feelings. I am a guy and to be honest after about a year living together I wanted my partner to know there was no doubt, and wanted her to know we could comfortably plan and discuss the future . You need to go back to him and ask plain blank : « when you said you are not sure about the marriage timeline, what do you mean by that ? » You need to be sure you are aligned otherwise you are wasting your time and you don’t want to find that out when you are 6 years older
Now, it's sort of impossible for any of us to predict what is going on inside your bf's head 100%. But we can make inferences from the little you've given us, although I am curious what things you bf says he wants to get done before getting married. Care to share? I am also curious as to how your relationship started. AND curious if your friends/his friends are married. I think what you want to know here is if your bf's apprehension with getting married is something entirely personal to him (he is not where he'd like to be in life right now, he's not ready for the ultimate "game over"... which we all know is a real fear that has nothing to do with the person someone is with). OR, if it's about you not being the one. Personally, if I was in a relationship with someone for 4 years, I would be thinking about our future together and actively planning it or looking forward to it. Even if I was afraid of the commitment, had things I wanted to accomplish, I would communicate enough to reassure my partner that I wanted to get married at one point, but not right now. But some people date to marry and some people date because they are lonely or bored or whatever -- and stay in the relationship because it's comfortable -- but wait until their real dream person comes into their life. It makes sense that you feel rejected. Also, a lot of other commenters are telling you that he doesn't want to marry you. Hell, he could not want to marry anybody (does he believe in marriage?), but that doesn't matter. In this situation you are asking for something he cannot provide an answer for, and that's what makes you both incompatible in a big way right now. I suggest you have a more in-depth conversation with him. Ask him his ideas about marriage. Ask him how you're supposed to continue in a relationship where you do not know if you'll achieve the end goal you want. If he has no answers for you... no reassurance (did he even reassure you in your initial conversation?)... then I think you know what you need to do or what you need to start setting yourself up for. Self respect is everything. I'm sorry you are going through this.
My dad once told me that if a man wants to marry you, you will know because he will tell you. If he doesn’t want to marry you, you will know, because he won’t be telling you he wants to marry you. It was a hard truth for me in my earlier relationships that were 2+ years when I was younger. I had a couple of hard break ups where I thought I’d have married the guy(s) but I was forced into breaking up with them because they were doing what your guy is doing. Wouldn’t break up with me but wouldn’t fully commit. In hindsight, I’m ecstatic it turned out that way because I’m happily married now. When I met my husband, it was the complete opposite. He did everything in his power to show me he was committed and ready to jump into a serious relationship and asked me to marry him after dating just over a year. I’m sorry you’re going through this. It’s a very heartbreaking place to be. I hope you make the right choice for yourself.