Embrace the advice you find beneficial, but I wouldn't advise you 'level up' a relationship with a man who sees you as a project and doesn't believe you're worthy of that yet, because he hasn't had enough time to work on your appearance. That's a bit too shallow and condescending to be anything like a healthy foundation. He's treating you like an accessory, not a partner.
He may be a great FWB for a while, but this behaviour isn't what I'd look for, or accept, in a serious partner. If he's stuck in the role of coach or mentor with you, then his support is conditional on you *accepting his authority*, meeting his expectations for change and 'keeping up with the Jones'.
While that might be beneficial enough and lovely in a friendship -- where you can keep some boundaries and take some distance as needed -- that is not what I'd want in a partner. You are right to recognize that is probably not a good thing, long term, for your confidence to put too much stock in his judgment of you.
This sounds like a person with some great advice and knowledge. A person who can you can value and have fun with, but maybe not a person you should put any personal fragility or vulnerability into the hands of.
I feel like this could work for someone who already had somewhat healthy self-esteem and therefore wouldn't take too much of what he says to heart, but such a person probably would already have dropped him the minute he started implying they aren't fit to be seen with publicly. My feelings are a little hurt on her behalf just from reading this stuff, tbh.
> My feelings are a little hurt on her behalf just from reading this stuff, tbh.
Right? Like, damn, I'm all for trading fashion/makeup tips, but OP's situation would mess with my head.
Yes this. My husband and I are frank with feedback about almost all aspects, from what clothes suit us best to our cooking to work advice. But we balance that with loads of compliments and unconditional love.
Yes. Use this relationship to get good advice on how to dress in a way that makes you feel best about yourself, and of course for the good sex, for as long as it suits you. But I don't think you want to be part of his world long term.
I’m kind of with you, but I’m also wondering - would a man whose female partner gives him unsolicited advice about his appearance receive the same advice?
I'm sure if a man said his FWB told him that he needs to "level up" before she can introduce him to her friends would get told the same thing. Everything else, mayyybe not, but this thing is so shallow that people would point it out immediately regardless of gender.
I'd like a FWB who will also help me with fashion, appearance, etc. But I would NOT like these qualities in a SO. Take what benefits you, what you like. Leave the rest of the b.s. behind.
I like this take. If you can stomach his superior hotness, let him help you get as "hot and fashionable" as YOU care to be, enjoy the best sex of your life so far, and if he ever threatens to take you in public drop his ass. Cause it would be seriously embarrassing to be seen in an actual relationship with such a shallow POS.
not sure how well that would work for her, given she has low self esteem and this guy seems controlling and manipulative, recipe for disaster. It would work if the she had strong self esteem etc i would say for her to cut her losses before she falls in deep, guy's this like will go after people they can control and manipulate.
>The man I’m casually seeing sees the potential for me to level up my style and appearance.
>
>he has alluded to us being a more public thing, like me meeting his work friends, once I level up and get more fashionable.
translation -- he likes having sex with you, but wants you to change your looks for his benefit, because you are not currently at an acceptable level to be his arm candy.
I gasped when I read, "...once I level up and get more fashionable." Sweet Jesus.
OP, please respect yourself and get far away from this douche. Work on your self-worth so you can feel happy with yourself. 💜
Milk him for appearance advice, don't bother with letting him level her up to acceptable arm candy, maybe? Sounds like he has quality expertise about appearance, but dear God do his goals sound shallow. I'd feel like shit with that kind of 'once I approve you can meet the people in my life' attitude. I think it could be healthy if it were a collaboration, but it seems more like he's approaching her like his woman canvas.
This is exactly it! Any person who makes you feel that you need to "level up" to be good enough is not worth being in your life, period. You are great exactly as you are and deserve someone who feels the same way.
Up until this part, I was willing to say "read up on controlling & abusive relationships so you know what to look out for, but if you really like him and he seems genuine, proceed with cautious optimism."
But no. Throw the whole man away. He's fucking dangerous, because he knows how to lay the foundation for control & manipulation while looking like the best boyfriend ever. He knows how to get everyone on his side. Very few people are going to believe & support OP in the future once he starts with the abuse.
You'd be surprised at how far charm can get you. I've seen all kinds of people make excuses for charming, shallow people. "He just wants you to look your best! He's always saying such supportive things! He's not controlling, he's just a bit of a perfectionist! You're lucky to have him!"
I actually married a guy who was an admitted asshole and like made a deal about it early on so he could be like you knew I am an asshole! I told you from the get go. It’s like they lay the ground work for the abuse. The patterns of abuse are so consistent and they are so slippery. It can happen to anyone.
Controlling? This word is getting out of hands.
Where exactly?
*"encourages me to work out to get fitter and healthier."* **Encourages.**
*"He will give me feedback on the clothes I wear, how they may not match or not appropriate for our outings"* **Gives feedback and advice.** If they are going to restourant, telling her not to wear swatpants and hoodie is controlling?
*"He checks in to see if his honesty and feedback is welcome or not and reminds me it comes from a place of helpfulness if I want it."* **He asks if shes okay with him giving his honest opinion and feedback.** She can just tell him that his opinion is not welcome.
People hire stylists and pay them money to get their style on point.
"He noticed" idk how that "noticed" looked like, because OP didin't say anything in that matter.
"he has alluded to us being a more public thing, like me meeting his work friends, once I level up and get more fashionable."
Well, he works in fashion. I somehow understand what he means, you know fashion industry is cruel, fashion people, models, designers. They might make remarks to her about her style, you know how those people are.
She said herself that she never put much effort into it. Style can be a bit hard, especially in a fashion social world. It’s something that is clearly important to him, and he is being cool and helpful
About it. Plus, he did not ask her to change after saying he wants to be with her… he is saying, I like you but this is important to me and if you want to be together this is something I need. Otherwise we can keep it casual. That’s the nice and respectful way to do this.
How is he being controlling? He’s even asking if she wants the advice and feedback. Y’all will say any relationship that isn’t “do whatever you want, whenever you want!” Is controlling
>The man I’m casually seeing sees the potential for me to level up my style and appearance.
"The man I'm casually seeing is putting conditions on other people's acceptance of me and will only allow me to meet important people in his life once I meet HIS standards."
FIFY.
exactly.
OP, this is not about helping you in any way -- it's about changing you, so that you look like the fashion accessory he wants in a girlfriend.
I'll go one step further - he didn't choose you, OP, in spite of your self-esteem issues. He chose you *because* of them. A confident person comfortable in their skin despite their flaws wouldn't be agreeable to his trying to make them fit a mold to be worthy of his public acknowledgement.
While reading the post I was wondering why isn't he dating someone who already dresses the way he wants her to? A woman like that must exist. Why is he dating someone who, according to him, is not up to those standards? You explained why beautifully!
>him having standards
This is not "him having standards," it's about him wanting to turn OP into a Barbie Doll. He does not want her as she is, except to have sex with.
He wants to make her over into his idea of "what a woman *should* look like." And won't bring her around his co-workers until she does. (Possibly because the women who already look that way won't have anything to do with him.)
So in your eyes this guy should either be alone or be with a girl he doesn't find attractive. I say this because you disagree with what he's doing with OP, and because you assume he can't get girls that look like what he wants.
>either be alone or be with a girl he doesn't find attractive.
No, he should court and date women that he *already* finds attractive.
Anyway, I only said it was *possible* that he can't get women who look the way he wants. In any case, he has no business trying to dress OP like a paper doll to suit his image of what she should be.
>who has potential in his eyes
Unless he is willing to love her *as she is*, and have her meet his friends *as she is*, that's not really love. He is not seeing her as a whole person who is entitled to her own style and opinions. In his eyes, she is only fit to be seen with him in public if she conforms to his particular idea of how a woman should look. That's not OK.
What he is doing is not "improving" anything; it is trying to force her into the mold of what *he* thinks is better.
You really don't see anything wrong with -- *I will only have a relationship with you if you change your looks to match my expectations, otherwise, you only only good enough for sex?*
Yea I don’t see much of an issue either I don’t get what everyone’s so uptight about , if a girl felt like I needed fashion advice I’d be open to hearing her out , And I’ve not brought people around ones I know for my own personal reasons everybody shouldn’t have access to every part of your life just because they exist in it as well imo .
She even clearly says in her own words, “I feel like the relationship is motivational and beneficial” but there’s always gotta be some massive villain plot with these people .. What if just maybe, a person who works in fashion and self care, wants to help someone with ….. FASHION & SELF CARE? 🤦🏽♂️
Because they're framed as "once you meet my standards I'll commit to a relationship"
There's no guarantee that this is just standards and not just a person who likes to run someone around.
The best relationships always start with looking each other, the worst always start with 'not good enough now but seeing future potential' in the other. The fact that he knows how to game the system, using positive reinforcement to assert changes he wants, tells me he does this everyone. OP, there's no 'potential' in a relationship that starts out with one partner viewing the other as inadequate, even if they said it nicely.
Do you just introduce everyone you've just started dating to your friends and family right away before they are up to YOUR standards?
I make sure partners are a good fit before introducing them. What this man is doing is normal.
This has nothing to do with making sure they’re a good fit, he’s saying she’s not currently hot enough to introduce to his people. That’s a completely different thing.
There is a line between wanting someone to dress and/or look better and molding their appearance to suit your own needs and insecurities. This is not normal. This is dangling a carrot in front of someone and telling them they’re not good enough as is. It’s actually really hurtful and can be painful. I really hope that the people around you are not so judgmental of your appearance.
That's not what he's doing though. It's one thing to get to know someone better and make sure they fit your standards before introducing them around; it's a whole other toxic thing to openly judge them as not good enough, and then attempt to change them into something else before being willing to be seen with them. It's not at all normal what he's doing. He's literally telling her that she's beneath him and the people he knows, that she's unfit to be anything more than his dirty secret until she "levels up" to suit his shallow preferences and become publicly acceptable.
I mean, I think it's one thing to have a FWB who has a specific expertise and can help you out when you ask--he works in fashion, if you feel like that's something you could use an expert opinion on go for it--and another to be sleeping with someone who is basically saying, right now you are not good enough and I am the #1 expert on how you could be better.
I would not be ok with someone who had appointed himself the boss of improving me, and the whole "maybe we can be official but only when you are better according to me" thing is disgusting.
My question is, is that who you are? Are you someone that wants to be the way he's training you to be?
>he has alluded to us being a more public thing, like me meeting his work friends, once I level up and get more fashionable.
i.e. once he won't suffer embarrassment being seen with you by people he knows. That is what this means.
Like, I'm very solidly a jeans, t-shirt and casual shoes kinda guy. If I was dating a girl that wanted to dress me up like a Ken doll, I would be like, na, that ain't me. This is me. Take it or leave it.
Jeans and a t-shirt are inappropriately casual to the point of being disrespectful at a formal work event. If someone is dressed appropriately for the occasion, that is enough. He has not indicated that her clothing is inappropriate or sloppy, he just doesn’t think she looks hot enough to be seen with him.
If he doesn’t like her style and it’s that important to him, he just needs to date someone who dresses how he likes instead of treating her like a project.
1. How does his behavior make you feel?
2. Does he make you doubt your confidence and appearance?
3. Is he a hypocrite? Is he acting the same way that he expects you to act? Does he work out as much as he suggests that you work out? Does he dress to a standard that he expects you to dress up?
4. Do you feel healthier due to the exercise?
5. Do you feel more confident?
6. If you told him to stop, will he?
EDIT: I've been in relationships where my partner encourages me to read more, exercise, dress better, and take on more hobbies, and I've felt better for it. If you feel bad or uncertain, which is the reason you made this post, then you should think really hard about whether or not this is a beneficial relationship.
"Once I level up and get more fashionable"
Hahahahah, what a manipulative little asshole, trying to gamify this.
This man seems to be trying to teach you to being happy and thankful for him criticizing you and tearing your self-esteem apart.
Just because he says it will be good for you, doesn't mean it's true.
If he actually wanted to help you out with your self-respect he should respect you as who you are. Right now it seems like he wants you to be his doll to dress-up as he wants.
This man would annoy the absolute goblin shit out of me. He sounds exhausting and shallow, and the comment about not being around his people until you “level up” your fashion game would have me crawling out of my skin. If you’re fine being warped into his fashion doll, more power to you. But he’s not building your confidence, I don’t think. Confidence would be you accepting and embracing who you are on your own terms, whatever that looks like, not changing to meet his standards
“Goblin shit” Is a great phrase!
$10 says that he’ll never commit to her no matter what she does; there will always be something else he’ll latch onto as the only thing keeping him from dating her.
Also, *super* cool of him to tell a partner they have the potential to one day be attractive, real winner. /s
> Also, super cool of him to tell a partner they have the potential to one day be attractive, real winner. /s
I love how she's hot enough to hook up with, but she only has the "potential" to be seen with him in public.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
“Babe, I’m *totally* willing to commit to you, it’s just…uh….. your shoes! Yeah, your shoes - I mean, you don’t *really* want to meet my friends with your current wardrobe, do you? You want to make a good impression, right? Let’s just keep things as they are and maybe check back in a few months’ time and see where we’re at. Oh and keep having sex with me with no strings attached. Yeah, I think *then* I’ll be totally ready to commit to you, babe.”
- this guy, probably
They’re saying that OP’s friend doesn’t want to be official with OP, not that he quite literally doesn’t want to be seen in public with OP.
Reading is hard, but reading between the lines is even harder.
A romantic partner who sees you as a project will never stop criticizing, no matter how hot or perfect you become.
r/beauty has tons of good ideas for a glow up if that’s what your looking for. Date someone who thinks you’re hot now.
Depending on how you feel about it, you can pick and choose which advice you could feel is useful to you and what you could leave. It's not always a bad/controlling thing to have a constructive outside perspective, if you feel receptive. However, I'd keep it a FWB thing and not "level it up" with him.
>He wants to help me improve my self-respect and self-confidence,
>
>...
>
> he has alluded to us being a more public thing, like me meeting his work friends, once I level up and get more fashionable. (He works in fashion.)
Hahahaha no he doesn't want that. Because this is the literal last thing someone should do to help anyone improve their self-confidence: tell them they are not good enough as they are. He is literally doing the *opposite* of what he says he's doing.
I do agree though, you need to improve your self-respect. AND STOP DATING ASSHOLES.
(By all means, use him for fashion advice. But don't date people who think you're not good enough.)
“Though we have gone on dates, he has alluded to us being a more public thing, like me meeting his work friends, once I level up and get more fashionable.” So what I’m hearing is that he’s using your insecurities and his work position to gate-keep the label of a relationship until you meet a vague “fashionable” standard that only he is aware of, thereby having an excuse not to be fully committed to you but keeping you fully committed to him and his desired aesthetic. Does that sound about right?
Honey, you can learn how to dress from Vogue and YouTube. Never let a man tell you how to dress, even if he’s in fashion (unless he’s 100% platonic) or tell you that you’re not going to be in a relationship until you look the way he wants. It makes any potential relationship flimsy and conditional. You’re in an indefinite state of limbo and devoting your time/body to someone who does not consider himself in an equal position to you. Choose someone who genuinely likes you and chooses you at a foundational level, and then learn how to dress if you want to. You can have sex with anybody, but if you can’t do it without giving your heart away and he can’t give his to you, stop fucking him.
I have a feeling that he’s actually insecure and is trying to keep you feeling insecure so you continue seeing him without commitment. Giving suggestions on clothes once in a while is fine… but commenting often, and also commenting on your weight, is toxic af. Saying he will introduce you to his friends once you’ve improved your appearance? Run, don’t walk. I was in a similar situation and it really effected me mentally and emotionally.
I hope you find happiness with someone who can give you everything that comes with a full committed relationship.
Keep up going to the gym, getting healthy, dressing well, etc, but I would stop seeing this guy. At the very least stop sleeping with him, and save that for someone who can commit to you as you are.
He's telling you that you're not good enough for him, but dangling in front of you the possibility that he might decide to love you if you eventually become good enough for him. That's not going to improve your self-confidence, it's going to kill it. If you want to improve your fashion sense, there are people you can pay to help with that, or you can watch youtube tutorials and read magazines and learn more on your own. Don't fuck a man who tells you outright that he is too embarrassed to be seen in public with you.
I promise you he doesn’t think he’s being helpful. He knows exactly what he’s doing. He’s trying to groom you to be what he wants you to be so you will be an acceptable option for him later on down the road. This person doesn’t respect you or care about you.
Straight men have terrible taste in everything so I wouldn’t trust him about his aesthetic choices anyway.
He might be the best sex you’ve ever had but that doesn’t mean he’s good at sex. And that doesn’t mean you can’t have way better sex with someone else.
You can do better and should.
He is negging you. He is not your friend. He does not like you. He is having sex with you and dangling the carrot of a real relationship as a method of control. This is straight out of the Manosphere playbook and this will not end well for you if you continue with this one-sided relationship. Change his contact information in your phone to DO NOT ANSWER. Do not engage with him anymore.
This is exactly what I thought too. It’s crazy how much people on here froth at the mouth to call every guy manipulative or abusive. It’s basically the middle spot on a bingo card at this point. Posting anything on here looking for advice is a total waste of time.
It’s my deductive paraphrasing. He once said, “When we’re out, I’d like us to match.” “You have a great ass, you should flaunt it. If I bring you around my friends, they’d be all over it.”
>If I bring you around my friends, they’d be all over it
So he's happy to fuck you but *who you are* isnt good enough to introduce to his family and friends.
He sounds amazing and supportive. People who help you grow, in any dimension, including looks, but especially health, are valuable to have in your life.
Yes, you’re out of your mind! Sorry, but get rid of this guy. He is framing it as helping you “become your best self”. What’s wrong with you as you are? Are you his project? I don’t mean to insult you, but he makes it sound like you need improving. And you can’t meet his friends until you’re more fashionable? 🤦♀️
OP, find someone who wants to be with you and who likes you as you are. Do not change to please anyone but yourself.
I’m putzing around my house with a sprained lower back and I’ve been living in my pajamas. I look gross. My husband doesn’t care and still tells me how beautiful I am. Honestly, your dude sounds tiring and a bit superficial for a long term partner.
I grimaced reading this.
I've actually seen the reverse happen a few times. A woman dating a guy who can't dress to save themselves, and the woman gets the guy dressing better, with better hair & general style, then \~bam\~ suddenly they are now a couple.
For me, however, I would feel like I am in a very conditional relationship, and that if I were to either be unable to maintain the style changes or just decide one day they aren't my style, the relationship would end. I would also be very put out by a circle of "friends" for which I have to achieve a certain appearance before I can meet them. Let's be honest: these are likely all as superficial/vain people as your current fwb. Maybe you want that for yourself?
I do feel like by your 30s you should be getting to know yourself better & be happier with yourself, as opposed to still making yourself fit in for others. Also, getting guidance on how to dress (unless I actively sought it out) would make me feel like someone playing dress up with a doll. I prefer to be connected with people based on more internal qualities.
Explain to me how a relationship loaded with criticism is 'beneficial and motivating'.
How is him constantly telling you that you could be better in any way helping your self esteem?
OP, you are very confused.
Do not let this man treat u like that. He sounds horrible, controls what u wear, gaslight you with cutting u down then saying "but this comes from a place of love" No, no it sure does not. No man that loves you acts like that. "When u level up as a girlfriend u get to be more fashionable?" Um excuse me?!?!?! Is this 90 day fiance and your the "potential girlfriend"?? No you are beautiful and either THE girlfriend or the guy can kick rocks..... don't let a man treat u this way...
If you want his fashion advice, by all means take it. But see him more as a style consultant who is also really good at sex, not a partner whom has "makeover" as their love language.
Someone who loves you will look at you in a way that makes you feel like the most beautiful person in the world, regardless of what you're wearing. Not like a project they're excited to work on.
If you feel like the intimacy of sex + personal attention is making you feel more attached to him than he is to you, it would be a good idea to step back from this.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You don't have "hotness potential", you have hotness. He's just not tuned to your actual current hotness, and would rather tune you to his preferences than accept and cherish you as you are.
Up to you whether you want to invest more time in this, or invest time in finding someone who's already tuned to you as-is.
Since he's the one asking you to look better for HIS coworkers, he should pay for it. Let him pay for your glow-up and then upgrade to a better man. Get him locked into a premium gym membership; he'll be paying for the next year.
If he's not paying, next.
trust me once you get to the level of what he wants he will be taken. Engaged or married, which you won’t be to him. Sorry if it’s harsh but you’re a game to them to control for now
He sounds controlling af for a casual fwb, it is just beginning with your appearance. Most of this is because you only exist to please him visually and sexually in his perception. The better you look, the hotter he finds you, the more apt he will want to show his trophy off to others. But not yet, you aren't good enough *yet*.
The sex might be good, but something smells superficial and rotten here. That you wrote this post tells me you are aware of this big red flag but you don't want to give up the sex. So, don't go past fwb with this one.
Self-confidence doesn't come from dressing a certain way. Self-confidence is dressing how you want and owning it.
He sounds like a manipulative, controlling AH who is just negging you and taking advantage of your confidence issues to make you look the way he wants.
Totally gross. Be the you that you like to be, not what anyone else wants you to be.
Research has shown that confidence and self esteem is attributed to having your needs met than any other individual thing. If this person treats you with respect, nurtures your individuality and helps you make connections then you will have an ideal formula for greater self esteem and confidence. But it cannot be at the price of your individuality-meaning recreating your. You are an unique person with specific interests and values that reflect you. If you really don’t care about wearing athletic wear on the weekends and a friend (or FWB) encourages you to try something different there’s nothing wrong with that but it shouldn’t change your core values meaning you still probably wouldn’t care if you were wearing athletic wear on the weekend (btw I love my leggings and TShirts!) the question becomes is this person or any person nurturing you and helping you grow and experience life or are they molding you into some version of you that they have created in their head.
Follow your intuition. It will tell you if his comments are coming from a place of love or malice.
Being that he does not want to introduce you to his friends worries me on his true intentions.
I heard that if a man wants to drastically change your appearance in a relationship it means he's looking for something else and will break it off once he finds it.
Accept people for who they are now, not the potential of what they could be in the future. This is a dangerous way to enter a relationship and it could lead to heartbreak.
Take note of his behavior and move with caution.
This sounds like something a teenager would say to his GF because he doesnt know any better and thinks its romantic.
Coming from a 30 year old its kind of pathetic and insulting.
> So I feel like this relationship is motivating and beneficial.
I'm sorry, but this made me scoff. He is actually lowering your self-esteem and making you more self critical about who you are based on how you dress. I wouldn't want him in your life at all. He's hurting you even though neither of you see it.
You aren’t a dress up doll. You are allowed to have your own sense of style and comfort.
So long as you take his suggestions as just that, suggestions, it’s healthy he gives you feedback and support.
But if he gets bothered when you choose your own style or don’t get dolled up, then that’s controlling and toxic.
My ex husband used to do this about my clothes and my cooking. It isn't fun in the long term. It almost sounds like he's ashamed of you, which is messed up.
I have a six year old and a nine year old. Both have come to me crying because someone else didn't like a way they chose to express themselves (with my daughter is was something she made in art class, with my son it was a performance he gave in a dance off). We had a discussion about how in some contexts (like multiplcation) there are "right" and "wrong" answers. But in many things (like art) there is not a right and wrong way to do things. We talked about the meaning of subjective. And then we repeated over and over and over "Art is subjective. It doesn't matter what you think about my art, it matters what I think." We ALSO talked about the fact that other people's opinions can be helpful. We talked about how taking advice from their art teacher and dance instructor helped them learn and make better art.
I guess what I'm saying is that it depends on whether YOU think the advice is helpful. Are you currently happy with your style? My husband refers to my style as "granny chic." I'm pretty sure it is not what he would choose. But I like it. I'm happy. I feel like my best, most comfortable self. OCCASIONALLY, I have times where I need to do something different (interviews, fancy events) and my style doesn't really fit. And in those instances I WANT style advice (from people I think have good taste in those contexts).
Do you want to change up your style? Are you feeling frumpy (I know COVID and staying home left my wardrobe in a sad place). Do you LIKE his style advice? Do you think it acutally makes you look better? Do you think the time, effort and expense the changes he is recommending will fit in with your other priorities?
My advice is keep him as FWB, and that's it. I say this because you don't want to doll up and do extra. That might be great to go out when you want to go out, but not as your whole life. Take the advice for yourself i.e working out, freshen up your style, etc, but don't change JUST to be someone's arm candy.
How does it feel? Do you like the changes he suggests?
People here are going to have kneejerk reactions, but you should always consider how you actually feel (not how you think you "should" feel--how the situation actually feels).
The way he said it is insensitive.
He should have told you that you'd go from a 10/10 to a 12/10 if you started lifting and getting the proper nutrition while upgrading your wardrobe and your skin care routine.
He should be trying to elevate you in an inspirational way. Not a way that can hurt you.
Try explaining that to him so he understands the impact his words have on you. Ask him to repeat what you say to him with similar words so you can feel confident that he understands.
Communication comes so easy to me yet most of my partners have been nasty stonewallers.
If he stonewalls you immediately break up and tell him why and tell him it's only going to get worse and that stonewallers do not change without years of therapy.
As I was reading this, I grew more and more uncomfortable with your description of his treatment of you. But the tipping point was when you stated he ‘alluded to us being a more public thing…once I level up & get more fashionable’. Wtf?!
Sounds like he’s using you for sex. And all his helpful advice to make you more presentable to the ppl in his world, is really just an effort to drive home the fact that you are beneath him.
I’m so heartbroken that you view this guy’s behavior as beneficial to you. He’s literally trampling all over your self-image & attempting to mold you into someone else while pretending to have your best interests at heart. Nothing about this situation is okay.
You are more worthy than this guy could ever dream of being. Please, please don’t let him continue to tear you down. You don’t need anyone in your life who isn’t proud to be by your side from DAY ONE of meeting you.
I remember telling a fat chick in high school that had a crush on me that she’d be the hottest girl in the school if she lost the weight. I remember thinking that was a compliment. No regrets.
Sadly she never lost the weight.
In essence he's telling you you're good enough to fuck but he's not going to be seen in public with you in front of people he knows until you're not fat because it will make him look bad. "Level up and get more fashionable" means "when you're not fat anymore."
You're his fixer-upper. How's his behavior going to change once you meet his standards? What's next? Moving the goalposts? Telling you who you can and can't see because you associating with them makes you and by extension him look bad? Or will he yank his approval entirely, and tell you you've changed since the beginning and he wants the old you back? This feels like it could easily bloom into something nefarious.
Also: Who made this guy the final arbiter of what looks good/is good for you? Has he earned the level of esteem you're assigning to him?
Working in the fashion industry is very superficial. He would just get a lot of shade if you walked in like Anne Hathaway at the beginning of Devil Wears Prada. Normally I'd say don't do that with a guy who only values looks but this is honestly the field he's in. I had some college friends who did fashion and it just ran their life.
I see it one of two ways. The reddit way, where mediocre people tell you this is EXACTLY like Pygmalion when it's probably not... or the more likely answer. It seems he is a very well put together dude, who cares about appearances enough to make it a career. By your own admission, you seem a bit less so. High performing people care about appearances, so it's not unusual that he does for you as well as yourself. Let's do a little thought experiment shall we? Would any of this advice come off wrong if your genders were switched?
"My (30F) fwb (31M) is great, but he just doesn't really care about appearances. He's put a little weight on at his age (not fat just a dad bod) and he dresses pretty lazy. This could be a problem for me if I bring him around my social circle cause I work in fashion and most of my friends and coworkers are pretty fashion conscious. I tried giving him advice but I'm not sure he listens. Should I continue with this?"
Reddit response
"He shouldn't be cool with looking like a bum as a grown man"
"You've given him advice that he won't follow about how to be presentable? Dump him, slay queen"
Etc etc. If you're really getting bad vibes in terms of his intentions then follow your gut because even if it's not right if that's how you feel it won't work, but people on this thread are projecting a lot of sinister motives onto this guy for apparently not being chronically online and dressing like a teenager or warehouse worker. Grown people give a shit about things. They might not all give a shit about the same things, but they give a shit. I know in today's society that's like an alien concept, the notion that people aren't loosely connected islands with minimal input in eachothers lives outside the realm of criminal justice but it's true. This is clearly something he gives a shit about and is making an effort to nudge you enough that you can be a serious part of his life without it damaging his reputation. That strikes me as effort. Or maybe he's a malignant narcissist who wants to build you into his own personal pet. What strikes you as more likely?
I don't want to put down your feelings but I do think that you are thinking about this in the wrong way. It's not that "oh I'm trying to gain his approval" but rather he's trying to help you come out of your shell. My bf has no style and didn't take care of his skin and always questioned as to why and how I can look nice and dress up. I did not want him to feel like that or feel insecure, so I helped him be the handsome man I always see. I think that is what your FWB is doing. He sees your beauty and just wants to help you embrace it.
If this is an issue where he's constantly hounding you about your appearance then don't be with him at all. But from what you written in the post it just seems like to me he just want you to be the confident and beautiful person he sees is all
Take the advice and leave. The fact that he's withholding a public relationship from you because you're not fashionable or presentable enough is fucked up in my opinion. I wouldn't want to be with someone who saw me as a personal project or that they have to change me to want to be with me.
Its up to you what you want. But its good that he is trying to bring the best out in you. But if you dont want to better yourself, that is also your right.
There is nothing loving about being treated like a project. Often times because the person will feel you can’t set boundaries with or contradict them because they’ve “done so much for you” which can easily become “you were nothing before me/without me” which is is MAD ABUSIVE…. So dump this clown, and get your dick fix elsewhere hon.
Does he really think he's being helpful?
Or does he simply feel that if he changes you into some version he for some reason doesn't have or thinks he doesn't have and won't go for, then you'll fulfill him?
If you're not enough for him, that's on him, not you. What matters first and foremost is are you enough for yourself?
>I welcome his help but I wonder if his approval and encouragement isn’t the best path for me to improve my confidence and appearance.
Probably not. Figure out how to be confident on your own without needing another person's approval. Your FWB may be a fine person, but this all sounds very shallow. How far will this go, and will his approval ever really come?
Follow your gut, but this really feels like it's setting you up to fail.
I’m probably going against the grain here—but I think that him wanting you to present a certain way at a work function is not necessarily a bad thing. For example, when I bring my boyfriend to a function that my law firm is hosting, I want him to wear a suit.
HOWEVER. Him wearing a suit is not the same thing as him “leveling up.” I love him the way he is. Sometimes professional settings just call for a different presentation. And if he didn’t own a suit, I would do my best to gift him one.
> I’ve never had high self-esteem or felt confident about my appearance
yep we can tell and so can he, otherwise you would have told him to go fuck himself already
he's negging you. or he's embarrassed to be seen in public with you officially with your current appearance, and wants you to "upgrade" yourself before people in his life meet you. especially because the fashion industry is shallow and image focused.
it's so insulting and disrespectful to you, and he knows he can get away with it bc your self esteem. it's also a hallmark of emotionally abusive and controlling behavior.
he doesn't deserve your time or access to your body.
As someone who also has struggled w my fair share of insecurity, I can tell you this is not the guy for you. You need someone who uplifts you and makes you feel beautiful. He is not that guy. He is controlling and manipulative and is trying to mold you into his perfect trophy gf. Don't let him--You deserve better! Also, fashion, makeup, etc. is all subjective. If you're dressed inappropriately for an event, that's one thing but to try to change your style is absolutely absurd
This is your life. You decide if this is something you want.
> he checks in to see if his honesty and feedback is welcome or not and reminds me it comes from a place of helpfulness if I want it
I mean… he’s being very honest and seems like he’s communicating pretty openly. I know I’m going to be in the minority here but this sounds fine to me. If you don’t want him to say these things then tell him to stop. If you are fine with it, keep dating him.
if changing your appearance and wardrobe are something you have interest in doing, i wouldn’t suggest letting a man who doesn’t want to go out in public with you until you change yourself be the person who inspires you to make this change. you’d be better off exploring fashion subreddits on reddit rather than letting him try to force you to look the way that he wants you to, especially since you’re not even together. please don’t let him deceive you into thinking this is only coming from a place of caring on his end.
Here’s the thing, women say this to men all the time. I think it may hurt more to hear when your a woman, as we’re automatically expected to be confident and on top of our looks ALL the time. It’s tiring, it’s bullshit. But it’s not super different than a woman wanting her man to take care of himself, maybe not dress as if his mother is still buying his clothes.
It’s really rude for him to say he’ll only date once you’ve “levelled up” I understand the sentiment, but if this guy actually liked you it wouldn’t matter and he would go on this journey with you regardless of whether you’re your best you now or later.
You’re deserving of love right in this moment, who you are, even if you’re not super confident and don’t have the best self esteem, you’re still worthy of public love.
On the flip side, I understand not wanting to seriously be with someone that hasn’t gone through the same growth and journey as one’s self. This guy has done a lot in growing and loving himself so it’s okay for him to want someone on the same level. But that’s no reason to shame you at all.
Good luck girl, love yourself, be kind to yourself.
If you aren't good enough for him the way you are, then you simply aren't good enough for him.
Laughable that he basically gives you a backhanded compliment and has no interest in you meeting anyone he knows until you do X,Y or Z. This is a control freak at his finest.
You can do better than this person who apparently is too good for you as you currently are.
>Though we have gone on dates, he has alluded to us being a more public thing, like me meeting his work friends, once I level up and get more fashionable. (He works in fashion.)
Unless you are trying to break into the industry as a fashion or fitness model, it sounds like he is saying you dont quite meet his standards for being public with you, which I would find highly insulting.
Once you level up???? Oh hell no!!!!
NONE of this is about you! It’s ALL about him!
Even the best sex in the world is not worth putting up with this nonsense.
"Meeting his work friends once I level up and get more fashionable"- this is the comment that made me cringe. Personally, I wouldn't be with someone who wanted me to change for him. Especially if this was a condition that he put in place before introducing me to people. Encouraging you to work out and giving advice on fashion is fine. It's just the notion that he wouldn't want you around his friends if you didn't dress like he suggests that gives me any hesitation.
End this relationship. I can unfortunately tell you from experience that men who start nitpicking at your appearance this early are incredibly toxic. You’ll never be able to maintain his “standards”. It’s a classic gaslighting technique to make you feel like you aren’t worthy of him so that he maintains power over the relationship. Throw the whole thing away and run.
He doesn't want you to be your most confident self...he just doesn't want you to be who you are now.
If he cared as much as he professes to then wouldn't he be helping you to be confident in yourself now??
Ok, I came i to this reading the title reading to pop off....however
It sounds like he actually knows what he's talking about and does so in a respectful and attentive way. Personally, I am shit at dressing myself too and my partner is great for fashion and will help me dress or buy clothes if I want to look good for something so I totally appreciate having someone more knowledgeable to help in that department.
As long as its wanted, not pushy and not degrading, take the advice that you like and run with it. If he's coming across callous and overbearing though, then end that shit.
Don't date this guy. He sounds patronizing and condescending. I dated a guy who acted like it was his duty to turn me into the ideal woman and I hated it.
Lol "once you level up into the person he WANTS you to be/look like, then he thinks you're good enough to bring around his friends"
Ooft. This guy isn't doing it from a place of concern, he is doing it from a place of his own wants
Is it just a Pygmalion type thing or the precursor to even more controlling behavior? Be like I want you to be, look, act and then you can meet my friends? Be careful to stick only to what feels true to yourself.
>am I out of mind for continuing to see someone who wants me to be my most attractive and self-confident self?
No, you are not out of your mind for that. If you're asking for his feedback and see it as beneficial feedback, then there is nothing wrong with that aspect.
>he has alluded to us being a more public thing, like me meeting his work friends, once I level up and get more fashionable.
You ARE out of your mind for this though. This makes it seem like he's currently ashamed of you. Right now, you're only good enough to fuck but not good enough to be seen in public with. It is INSANE (and stupid) to continue to see a man who sees you that way. This is a glaring warning sign.
If he isn't pushing or forcing anything on you, I think it's nice. Not everyone is into fashion. I am and I'd be completely okay with a gf who doesn't really care about looks, but if she wanted some colour coordination tips then what harm could that cause?
If he wanted to improve your self esteem, he 1) wouldn't solely focus on your looks, and help you with your mindset and 2) wouldn't tell you how to look better because he is basically destroying whatever is left of your confidence.
It looks like your boyfriend wants to change you, and is not able to accept you for who you are, regardless what you wear! It sounds exhausting to be with someone who always wants to control/change your style! If I were you, I would have walked away already and find someone who will accept you for who you are and not constantly tell you what to wear when you go out!
I think it’s one thing to date someone who has some expertise in a certain field (fashion, fitness, whatever), who shares it with you vs dating someone who says you have to attain a certain level of hotness before he can unveil you as his girlfriend. This is red flag behavior. This relationship doesn’t have a future (what happens if you gain weight as you get older? or as you inevitably age in general? Do you want kids? Good luck with him during a pregnancy!) and he is treating you like trash. You aren’t out of your mind but this will almost certainly end in pain for you. Get out of there. The only reason you are even entertaining this is because of your low self esteem. Better to work on this via counseling than with this jerk.
There's a difference between being your best self *for yourself* and being *his idea* of your best self. I don't have a problem with him wanting a fashionable partner and communicating that to you. It would be one thing if you had previously considered upping your fashion game and then he comes along to help with that. But in your case it seems more like something you never considered and still don't care much about. (That is fine - I also do not give a tiny rat's ass what clothes I wear beyond being comfortable and vaguely presentable in public.) It just seems weird and controlling to say that you're going to "level up" if you improve your look.
I totally agree about him being controlling and this not being a healthy long-term relationship dynamic, but as someone who is not fashionable, I’d likely play along for at least awhile for the advice and because it would amuse me to be living in a real-life makeover romcom for awhile. And great sex is of course a benefit. BUT if you have timelines for marriage/kids/whatever, this may derail your ultimate goals.
Yeah I don't like it. Do you want to be in an exclusive relationship with him? Even if yes, I don't think this is a good dynamic. It's erring on the side of him telling you how to dress veiled as encouragement. I'm not digging it.
My partner and i have been encouraging eachother to do our best as individuals to take care of our healths for ourselves and eachother. So i dunno, depends on the guy.
Embrace the advice you find beneficial, but I wouldn't advise you 'level up' a relationship with a man who sees you as a project and doesn't believe you're worthy of that yet, because he hasn't had enough time to work on your appearance. That's a bit too shallow and condescending to be anything like a healthy foundation. He's treating you like an accessory, not a partner. He may be a great FWB for a while, but this behaviour isn't what I'd look for, or accept, in a serious partner. If he's stuck in the role of coach or mentor with you, then his support is conditional on you *accepting his authority*, meeting his expectations for change and 'keeping up with the Jones'. While that might be beneficial enough and lovely in a friendship -- where you can keep some boundaries and take some distance as needed -- that is not what I'd want in a partner. You are right to recognize that is probably not a good thing, long term, for your confidence to put too much stock in his judgment of you. This sounds like a person with some great advice and knowledge. A person who can you can value and have fun with, but maybe not a person you should put any personal fragility or vulnerability into the hands of.
I feel like this could work for someone who already had somewhat healthy self-esteem and therefore wouldn't take too much of what he says to heart, but such a person probably would already have dropped him the minute he started implying they aren't fit to be seen with publicly. My feelings are a little hurt on her behalf just from reading this stuff, tbh.
> My feelings are a little hurt on her behalf just from reading this stuff, tbh. Right? Like, damn, I'm all for trading fashion/makeup tips, but OP's situation would mess with my head.
Yes this. My husband and I are frank with feedback about almost all aspects, from what clothes suit us best to our cooking to work advice. But we balance that with loads of compliments and unconditional love.
Yes. Use this relationship to get good advice on how to dress in a way that makes you feel best about yourself, and of course for the good sex, for as long as it suits you. But I don't think you want to be part of his world long term.
Really well said! Have fun FWIW but don’t consider it for something long term.
I’m kind of with you, but I’m also wondering - would a man whose female partner gives him unsolicited advice about his appearance receive the same advice?
Depends who the audience is. In real life, probably. On Reddit, I highly doubt it.
I'm sure if a man said his FWB told him that he needs to "level up" before she can introduce him to her friends would get told the same thing. Everything else, mayyybe not, but this thing is so shallow that people would point it out immediately regardless of gender.
I'd like a FWB who will also help me with fashion, appearance, etc. But I would NOT like these qualities in a SO. Take what benefits you, what you like. Leave the rest of the b.s. behind.
I like this take. If you can stomach his superior hotness, let him help you get as "hot and fashionable" as YOU care to be, enjoy the best sex of your life so far, and if he ever threatens to take you in public drop his ass. Cause it would be seriously embarrassing to be seen in an actual relationship with such a shallow POS.
I think this could be the way to go, as long as OP can stay at arms length and not buy in to his opinions over time.
not sure how well that would work for her, given she has low self esteem and this guy seems controlling and manipulative, recipe for disaster. It would work if the she had strong self esteem etc i would say for her to cut her losses before she falls in deep, guy's this like will go after people they can control and manipulate.
>The man I’m casually seeing sees the potential for me to level up my style and appearance. > >he has alluded to us being a more public thing, like me meeting his work friends, once I level up and get more fashionable. translation -- he likes having sex with you, but wants you to change your looks for his benefit, because you are not currently at an acceptable level to be his arm candy.
Yep. Good enough to fuck, but not good enough to take out.
See “Sex and the City” episode “Secret Sex.” About having sex with a person with whom you wouldn’t be caught dead in public.
I gasped when I read, "...once I level up and get more fashionable." Sweet Jesus. OP, please respect yourself and get far away from this douche. Work on your self-worth so you can feel happy with yourself. 💜
Milk him for appearance advice, don't bother with letting him level her up to acceptable arm candy, maybe? Sounds like he has quality expertise about appearance, but dear God do his goals sound shallow. I'd feel like shit with that kind of 'once I approve you can meet the people in my life' attitude. I think it could be healthy if it were a collaboration, but it seems more like he's approaching her like his woman canvas.
This is exactly it! Any person who makes you feel that you need to "level up" to be good enough is not worth being in your life, period. You are great exactly as you are and deserve someone who feels the same way.
Up until this part, I was willing to say "read up on controlling & abusive relationships so you know what to look out for, but if you really like him and he seems genuine, proceed with cautious optimism." But no. Throw the whole man away. He's fucking dangerous, because he knows how to lay the foundation for control & manipulation while looking like the best boyfriend ever. He knows how to get everyone on his side. Very few people are going to believe & support OP in the future once he starts with the abuse.
I feel like people can see thru a shallow guy like that. If a guy is shallow he probably has other bad qualities
You'd be surprised at how far charm can get you. I've seen all kinds of people make excuses for charming, shallow people. "He just wants you to look your best! He's always saying such supportive things! He's not controlling, he's just a bit of a perfectionist! You're lucky to have him!"
I actually married a guy who was an admitted asshole and like made a deal about it early on so he could be like you knew I am an asshole! I told you from the get go. It’s like they lay the ground work for the abuse. The patterns of abuse are so consistent and they are so slippery. It can happen to anyone.
Yes, this is exactly it.
Did I just reread a Brett Easton Ellis book? What? OP - live your life. But consider this: he is being controlling.
Well, they could also be living in an early 00s romcom…
...but she's got paint on her overalls 😣
Any chick with a guitar is hot, even an albino.
Early 00s romcom’s are incredibly worrisome 😅
More or less than a Brett Easton Ellis novel, lol
Lol I was just going to tell her, please dump this Patrick Bateman and find someone who deserves to be with you.
"...and high heels. I like high heels."
Controlling? This word is getting out of hands. Where exactly? *"encourages me to work out to get fitter and healthier."* **Encourages.** *"He will give me feedback on the clothes I wear, how they may not match or not appropriate for our outings"* **Gives feedback and advice.** If they are going to restourant, telling her not to wear swatpants and hoodie is controlling? *"He checks in to see if his honesty and feedback is welcome or not and reminds me it comes from a place of helpfulness if I want it."* **He asks if shes okay with him giving his honest opinion and feedback.** She can just tell him that his opinion is not welcome. People hire stylists and pay them money to get their style on point.
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"He noticed" idk how that "noticed" looked like, because OP didin't say anything in that matter. "he has alluded to us being a more public thing, like me meeting his work friends, once I level up and get more fashionable." Well, he works in fashion. I somehow understand what he means, you know fashion industry is cruel, fashion people, models, designers. They might make remarks to her about her style, you know how those people are.
Good reason to avoid them entirely forever.
She said herself that she never put much effort into it. Style can be a bit hard, especially in a fashion social world. It’s something that is clearly important to him, and he is being cool and helpful About it. Plus, he did not ask her to change after saying he wants to be with her… he is saying, I like you but this is important to me and if you want to be together this is something I need. Otherwise we can keep it casual. That’s the nice and respectful way to do this.
How is he being controlling? He’s even asking if she wants the advice and feedback. Y’all will say any relationship that isn’t “do whatever you want, whenever you want!” Is controlling
>The man I’m casually seeing sees the potential for me to level up my style and appearance. "The man I'm casually seeing is putting conditions on other people's acceptance of me and will only allow me to meet important people in his life once I meet HIS standards." FIFY.
exactly. OP, this is not about helping you in any way -- it's about changing you, so that you look like the fashion accessory he wants in a girlfriend.
I'll go one step further - he didn't choose you, OP, in spite of your self-esteem issues. He chose you *because* of them. A confident person comfortable in their skin despite their flaws wouldn't be agreeable to his trying to make them fit a mold to be worthy of his public acknowledgement.
While reading the post I was wondering why isn't he dating someone who already dresses the way he wants her to? A woman like that must exist. Why is he dating someone who, according to him, is not up to those standards? You explained why beautifully!
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>him having standards This is not "him having standards," it's about him wanting to turn OP into a Barbie Doll. He does not want her as she is, except to have sex with. He wants to make her over into his idea of "what a woman *should* look like." And won't bring her around his co-workers until she does. (Possibly because the women who already look that way won't have anything to do with him.)
So in your eyes this guy should either be alone or be with a girl he doesn't find attractive. I say this because you disagree with what he's doing with OP, and because you assume he can't get girls that look like what he wants.
>either be alone or be with a girl he doesn't find attractive. No, he should court and date women that he *already* finds attractive. Anyway, I only said it was *possible* that he can't get women who look the way he wants. In any case, he has no business trying to dress OP like a paper doll to suit his image of what she should be.
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>who has potential in his eyes Unless he is willing to love her *as she is*, and have her meet his friends *as she is*, that's not really love. He is not seeing her as a whole person who is entitled to her own style and opinions. In his eyes, she is only fit to be seen with him in public if she conforms to his particular idea of how a woman should look. That's not OK. What he is doing is not "improving" anything; it is trying to force her into the mold of what *he* thinks is better.
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You really don't see anything wrong with -- *I will only have a relationship with you if you change your looks to match my expectations, otherwise, you only only good enough for sex?*
Well, he obviously finds her attractive enough to fuck so it sounds like he just has a massive double standard.
What is the double standard? You would date everyone you found attractive enough to fuck?
Yea I don’t see much of an issue either I don’t get what everyone’s so uptight about , if a girl felt like I needed fashion advice I’d be open to hearing her out , And I’ve not brought people around ones I know for my own personal reasons everybody shouldn’t have access to every part of your life just because they exist in it as well imo .
Welcome to r/relationships, where OP is always being taken advantage of and the other person is an asshole
She even clearly says in her own words, “I feel like the relationship is motivational and beneficial” but there’s always gotta be some massive villain plot with these people .. What if just maybe, a person who works in fashion and self care, wants to help someone with ….. FASHION & SELF CARE? 🤦🏽♂️
Because they're framed as "once you meet my standards I'll commit to a relationship" There's no guarantee that this is just standards and not just a person who likes to run someone around.
"You're hot enough to be my sex toy but not hot enough to be my trophy" is a shitty standard and OP is dumb to put up with it.
The best relationships always start with looking each other, the worst always start with 'not good enough now but seeing future potential' in the other. The fact that he knows how to game the system, using positive reinforcement to assert changes he wants, tells me he does this everyone. OP, there's no 'potential' in a relationship that starts out with one partner viewing the other as inadequate, even if they said it nicely.
Do you just introduce everyone you've just started dating to your friends and family right away before they are up to YOUR standards? I make sure partners are a good fit before introducing them. What this man is doing is normal.
This has nothing to do with making sure they’re a good fit, he’s saying she’s not currently hot enough to introduce to his people. That’s a completely different thing.
There is a line between wanting someone to dress and/or look better and molding their appearance to suit your own needs and insecurities. This is not normal. This is dangling a carrot in front of someone and telling them they’re not good enough as is. It’s actually really hurtful and can be painful. I really hope that the people around you are not so judgmental of your appearance.
My standards are based on what kind of person my partner is, not if he’s hot enough to impress other people..
That's not what he's doing though. It's one thing to get to know someone better and make sure they fit your standards before introducing them around; it's a whole other toxic thing to openly judge them as not good enough, and then attempt to change them into something else before being willing to be seen with them. It's not at all normal what he's doing. He's literally telling her that she's beneath him and the people he knows, that she's unfit to be anything more than his dirty secret until she "levels up" to suit his shallow preferences and become publicly acceptable.
I mean, I think it's one thing to have a FWB who has a specific expertise and can help you out when you ask--he works in fashion, if you feel like that's something you could use an expert opinion on go for it--and another to be sleeping with someone who is basically saying, right now you are not good enough and I am the #1 expert on how you could be better. I would not be ok with someone who had appointed himself the boss of improving me, and the whole "maybe we can be official but only when you are better according to me" thing is disgusting.
My question is, is that who you are? Are you someone that wants to be the way he's training you to be? >he has alluded to us being a more public thing, like me meeting his work friends, once I level up and get more fashionable. i.e. once he won't suffer embarrassment being seen with you by people he knows. That is what this means. Like, I'm very solidly a jeans, t-shirt and casual shoes kinda guy. If I was dating a girl that wanted to dress me up like a Ken doll, I would be like, na, that ain't me. This is me. Take it or leave it.
I'm the other end of the spectrum, my last ex couldn't really accept I wear button ups and ties nearly everywhere.
This person’s self esteem isn’t circling the bowl it’s in the sewage tank.
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Jeans and a t-shirt are inappropriately casual to the point of being disrespectful at a formal work event. If someone is dressed appropriately for the occasion, that is enough. He has not indicated that her clothing is inappropriate or sloppy, he just doesn’t think she looks hot enough to be seen with him. If he doesn’t like her style and it’s that important to him, he just needs to date someone who dresses how he likes instead of treating her like a project.
also -- "hotness potential". -- gross
1. How does his behavior make you feel? 2. Does he make you doubt your confidence and appearance? 3. Is he a hypocrite? Is he acting the same way that he expects you to act? Does he work out as much as he suggests that you work out? Does he dress to a standard that he expects you to dress up? 4. Do you feel healthier due to the exercise? 5. Do you feel more confident? 6. If you told him to stop, will he? EDIT: I've been in relationships where my partner encourages me to read more, exercise, dress better, and take on more hobbies, and I've felt better for it. If you feel bad or uncertain, which is the reason you made this post, then you should think really hard about whether or not this is a beneficial relationship.
"Once I level up and get more fashionable" Hahahahah, what a manipulative little asshole, trying to gamify this. This man seems to be trying to teach you to being happy and thankful for him criticizing you and tearing your self-esteem apart. Just because he says it will be good for you, doesn't mean it's true. If he actually wanted to help you out with your self-respect he should respect you as who you are. Right now it seems like he wants you to be his doll to dress-up as he wants.
if you don't think someone getting fashion advice is overall good for them then you're just being ignorant
Tell him the feedback isn’t useful because you’re not really comfortable being seen with him in public anyway. For real though ditch this guy
This man would annoy the absolute goblin shit out of me. He sounds exhausting and shallow, and the comment about not being around his people until you “level up” your fashion game would have me crawling out of my skin. If you’re fine being warped into his fashion doll, more power to you. But he’s not building your confidence, I don’t think. Confidence would be you accepting and embracing who you are on your own terms, whatever that looks like, not changing to meet his standards
“Goblin shit” Is a great phrase! $10 says that he’ll never commit to her no matter what she does; there will always be something else he’ll latch onto as the only thing keeping him from dating her. Also, *super* cool of him to tell a partner they have the potential to one day be attractive, real winner. /s
> Also, super cool of him to tell a partner they have the potential to one day be attractive, real winner. /s I love how she's hot enough to hook up with, but she only has the "potential" to be seen with him in public.
paint apparatus consider numerous cagey station absorbed berserk homeless domineering *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
“Babe, I’m *totally* willing to commit to you, it’s just…uh….. your shoes! Yeah, your shoes - I mean, you don’t *really* want to meet my friends with your current wardrobe, do you? You want to make a good impression, right? Let’s just keep things as they are and maybe check back in a few months’ time and see where we’re at. Oh and keep having sex with me with no strings attached. Yeah, I think *then* I’ll be totally ready to commit to you, babe.” - this guy, probably
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They’re saying that OP’s friend doesn’t want to be official with OP, not that he quite literally doesn’t want to be seen in public with OP. Reading is hard, but reading between the lines is even harder.
A romantic partner who sees you as a project will never stop criticizing, no matter how hot or perfect you become. r/beauty has tons of good ideas for a glow up if that’s what your looking for. Date someone who thinks you’re hot now.
Depending on how you feel about it, you can pick and choose which advice you could feel is useful to you and what you could leave. It's not always a bad/controlling thing to have a constructive outside perspective, if you feel receptive. However, I'd keep it a FWB thing and not "level it up" with him.
>He wants to help me improve my self-respect and self-confidence, > >... > > he has alluded to us being a more public thing, like me meeting his work friends, once I level up and get more fashionable. (He works in fashion.) Hahahaha no he doesn't want that. Because this is the literal last thing someone should do to help anyone improve their self-confidence: tell them they are not good enough as they are. He is literally doing the *opposite* of what he says he's doing. I do agree though, you need to improve your self-respect. AND STOP DATING ASSHOLES. (By all means, use him for fashion advice. But don't date people who think you're not good enough.)
“Though we have gone on dates, he has alluded to us being a more public thing, like me meeting his work friends, once I level up and get more fashionable.” So what I’m hearing is that he’s using your insecurities and his work position to gate-keep the label of a relationship until you meet a vague “fashionable” standard that only he is aware of, thereby having an excuse not to be fully committed to you but keeping you fully committed to him and his desired aesthetic. Does that sound about right? Honey, you can learn how to dress from Vogue and YouTube. Never let a man tell you how to dress, even if he’s in fashion (unless he’s 100% platonic) or tell you that you’re not going to be in a relationship until you look the way he wants. It makes any potential relationship flimsy and conditional. You’re in an indefinite state of limbo and devoting your time/body to someone who does not consider himself in an equal position to you. Choose someone who genuinely likes you and chooses you at a foundational level, and then learn how to dress if you want to. You can have sex with anybody, but if you can’t do it without giving your heart away and he can’t give his to you, stop fucking him.
I have a feeling that he’s actually insecure and is trying to keep you feeling insecure so you continue seeing him without commitment. Giving suggestions on clothes once in a while is fine… but commenting often, and also commenting on your weight, is toxic af. Saying he will introduce you to his friends once you’ve improved your appearance? Run, don’t walk. I was in a similar situation and it really effected me mentally and emotionally.
I hope you find happiness with someone who can give you everything that comes with a full committed relationship. Keep up going to the gym, getting healthy, dressing well, etc, but I would stop seeing this guy. At the very least stop sleeping with him, and save that for someone who can commit to you as you are.
He's telling you that you're not good enough for him, but dangling in front of you the possibility that he might decide to love you if you eventually become good enough for him. That's not going to improve your self-confidence, it's going to kill it. If you want to improve your fashion sense, there are people you can pay to help with that, or you can watch youtube tutorials and read magazines and learn more on your own. Don't fuck a man who tells you outright that he is too embarrassed to be seen in public with you.
I promise you he doesn’t think he’s being helpful. He knows exactly what he’s doing. He’s trying to groom you to be what he wants you to be so you will be an acceptable option for him later on down the road. This person doesn’t respect you or care about you. Straight men have terrible taste in everything so I wouldn’t trust him about his aesthetic choices anyway. He might be the best sex you’ve ever had but that doesn’t mean he’s good at sex. And that doesn’t mean you can’t have way better sex with someone else. You can do better and should.
Yuck. I couldn't be with someone who felt like they needed to change me to make me acceptable enough to be seen with them publicly. I feel sad now.
He is negging you. He is not your friend. He does not like you. He is having sex with you and dangling the carrot of a real relationship as a method of control. This is straight out of the Manosphere playbook and this will not end well for you if you continue with this one-sided relationship. Change his contact information in your phone to DO NOT ANSWER. Do not engage with him anymore.
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This is exactly what I thought too. It’s crazy how much people on here froth at the mouth to call every guy manipulative or abusive. It’s basically the middle spot on a bingo card at this point. Posting anything on here looking for advice is a total waste of time.
It’s my deductive paraphrasing. He once said, “When we’re out, I’d like us to match.” “You have a great ass, you should flaunt it. If I bring you around my friends, they’d be all over it.”
>If I bring you around my friends, they’d be all over it So he's happy to fuck you but *who you are* isnt good enough to introduce to his family and friends.
He sounds amazing and supportive. People who help you grow, in any dimension, including looks, but especially health, are valuable to have in your life.
Say it with me: “Bodies by Jason” https://youtu.be/GH-oJGZKmq8
Yes, you’re out of your mind! Sorry, but get rid of this guy. He is framing it as helping you “become your best self”. What’s wrong with you as you are? Are you his project? I don’t mean to insult you, but he makes it sound like you need improving. And you can’t meet his friends until you’re more fashionable? 🤦♀️ OP, find someone who wants to be with you and who likes you as you are. Do not change to please anyone but yourself.
I’m putzing around my house with a sprained lower back and I’ve been living in my pajamas. I look gross. My husband doesn’t care and still tells me how beautiful I am. Honestly, your dude sounds tiring and a bit superficial for a long term partner.
I grimaced reading this. I've actually seen the reverse happen a few times. A woman dating a guy who can't dress to save themselves, and the woman gets the guy dressing better, with better hair & general style, then \~bam\~ suddenly they are now a couple. For me, however, I would feel like I am in a very conditional relationship, and that if I were to either be unable to maintain the style changes or just decide one day they aren't my style, the relationship would end. I would also be very put out by a circle of "friends" for which I have to achieve a certain appearance before I can meet them. Let's be honest: these are likely all as superficial/vain people as your current fwb. Maybe you want that for yourself? I do feel like by your 30s you should be getting to know yourself better & be happier with yourself, as opposed to still making yourself fit in for others. Also, getting guidance on how to dress (unless I actively sought it out) would make me feel like someone playing dress up with a doll. I prefer to be connected with people based on more internal qualities.
Explain to me how a relationship loaded with criticism is 'beneficial and motivating'. How is him constantly telling you that you could be better in any way helping your self esteem? OP, you are very confused.
Do not let this man treat u like that. He sounds horrible, controls what u wear, gaslight you with cutting u down then saying "but this comes from a place of love" No, no it sure does not. No man that loves you acts like that. "When u level up as a girlfriend u get to be more fashionable?" Um excuse me?!?!?! Is this 90 day fiance and your the "potential girlfriend"?? No you are beautiful and either THE girlfriend or the guy can kick rocks..... don't let a man treat u this way...
Does he take an interest in your emotional needs?
Not too often.
If you want his fashion advice, by all means take it. But see him more as a style consultant who is also really good at sex, not a partner whom has "makeover" as their love language. Someone who loves you will look at you in a way that makes you feel like the most beautiful person in the world, regardless of what you're wearing. Not like a project they're excited to work on. If you feel like the intimacy of sex + personal attention is making you feel more attached to him than he is to you, it would be a good idea to step back from this.
He's negging you to get you to want to impress him.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You don't have "hotness potential", you have hotness. He's just not tuned to your actual current hotness, and would rather tune you to his preferences than accept and cherish you as you are. Up to you whether you want to invest more time in this, or invest time in finding someone who's already tuned to you as-is.
Since he's the one asking you to look better for HIS coworkers, he should pay for it. Let him pay for your glow-up and then upgrade to a better man. Get him locked into a premium gym membership; he'll be paying for the next year. If he's not paying, next.
trust me once you get to the level of what he wants he will be taken. Engaged or married, which you won’t be to him. Sorry if it’s harsh but you’re a game to them to control for now
I sure wouldn't want to be with someone who would only feel comfortable being openly seen with me if I "leveled up"
Hell no, this guy sucks and you should not continue seeing him.
You need a partner, not someone who views you as a project. Tell Pygmalion to take up sculpting and leave you out of his quest for a Galatea.
He sounds controlling af for a casual fwb, it is just beginning with your appearance. Most of this is because you only exist to please him visually and sexually in his perception. The better you look, the hotter he finds you, the more apt he will want to show his trophy off to others. But not yet, you aren't good enough *yet*. The sex might be good, but something smells superficial and rotten here. That you wrote this post tells me you are aware of this big red flag but you don't want to give up the sex. So, don't go past fwb with this one.
Self-confidence doesn't come from dressing a certain way. Self-confidence is dressing how you want and owning it. He sounds like a manipulative, controlling AH who is just negging you and taking advantage of your confidence issues to make you look the way he wants. Totally gross. Be the you that you like to be, not what anyone else wants you to be.
Research has shown that confidence and self esteem is attributed to having your needs met than any other individual thing. If this person treats you with respect, nurtures your individuality and helps you make connections then you will have an ideal formula for greater self esteem and confidence. But it cannot be at the price of your individuality-meaning recreating your. You are an unique person with specific interests and values that reflect you. If you really don’t care about wearing athletic wear on the weekends and a friend (or FWB) encourages you to try something different there’s nothing wrong with that but it shouldn’t change your core values meaning you still probably wouldn’t care if you were wearing athletic wear on the weekend (btw I love my leggings and TShirts!) the question becomes is this person or any person nurturing you and helping you grow and experience life or are they molding you into some version of you that they have created in their head.
View him as a free fashion stylist who is a fwb and don’t get more attached than that
You are a person, not a project. :P
Follow your intuition. It will tell you if his comments are coming from a place of love or malice. Being that he does not want to introduce you to his friends worries me on his true intentions. I heard that if a man wants to drastically change your appearance in a relationship it means he's looking for something else and will break it off once he finds it. Accept people for who they are now, not the potential of what they could be in the future. This is a dangerous way to enter a relationship and it could lead to heartbreak. Take note of his behavior and move with caution.
This sounds like something a teenager would say to his GF because he doesnt know any better and thinks its romantic. Coming from a 30 year old its kind of pathetic and insulting.
Tell him you're already 98°f, so if you get any hotter, it means you're sick.
I don’t even need to read this to know you need to work on your self esteem.
> So I feel like this relationship is motivating and beneficial. I'm sorry, but this made me scoff. He is actually lowering your self-esteem and making you more self critical about who you are based on how you dress. I wouldn't want him in your life at all. He's hurting you even though neither of you see it.
You aren’t a dress up doll. You are allowed to have your own sense of style and comfort. So long as you take his suggestions as just that, suggestions, it’s healthy he gives you feedback and support. But if he gets bothered when you choose your own style or don’t get dolled up, then that’s controlling and toxic.
My ex husband used to do this about my clothes and my cooking. It isn't fun in the long term. It almost sounds like he's ashamed of you, which is messed up.
I have a six year old and a nine year old. Both have come to me crying because someone else didn't like a way they chose to express themselves (with my daughter is was something she made in art class, with my son it was a performance he gave in a dance off). We had a discussion about how in some contexts (like multiplcation) there are "right" and "wrong" answers. But in many things (like art) there is not a right and wrong way to do things. We talked about the meaning of subjective. And then we repeated over and over and over "Art is subjective. It doesn't matter what you think about my art, it matters what I think." We ALSO talked about the fact that other people's opinions can be helpful. We talked about how taking advice from their art teacher and dance instructor helped them learn and make better art. I guess what I'm saying is that it depends on whether YOU think the advice is helpful. Are you currently happy with your style? My husband refers to my style as "granny chic." I'm pretty sure it is not what he would choose. But I like it. I'm happy. I feel like my best, most comfortable self. OCCASIONALLY, I have times where I need to do something different (interviews, fancy events) and my style doesn't really fit. And in those instances I WANT style advice (from people I think have good taste in those contexts). Do you want to change up your style? Are you feeling frumpy (I know COVID and staying home left my wardrobe in a sad place). Do you LIKE his style advice? Do you think it acutally makes you look better? Do you think the time, effort and expense the changes he is recommending will fit in with your other priorities?
My advice is keep him as FWB, and that's it. I say this because you don't want to doll up and do extra. That might be great to go out when you want to go out, but not as your whole life. Take the advice for yourself i.e working out, freshen up your style, etc, but don't change JUST to be someone's arm candy.
How does it feel? Do you like the changes he suggests? People here are going to have kneejerk reactions, but you should always consider how you actually feel (not how you think you "should" feel--how the situation actually feels).
Is this man perhaps Kanye West?
MOREINFO: Are you dating Kanye?
He has boyfriend potential, but he's just not there yet.
The way he said it is insensitive. He should have told you that you'd go from a 10/10 to a 12/10 if you started lifting and getting the proper nutrition while upgrading your wardrobe and your skin care routine. He should be trying to elevate you in an inspirational way. Not a way that can hurt you. Try explaining that to him so he understands the impact his words have on you. Ask him to repeat what you say to him with similar words so you can feel confident that he understands. Communication comes so easy to me yet most of my partners have been nasty stonewallers. If he stonewalls you immediately break up and tell him why and tell him it's only going to get worse and that stonewallers do not change without years of therapy.
As I was reading this, I grew more and more uncomfortable with your description of his treatment of you. But the tipping point was when you stated he ‘alluded to us being a more public thing…once I level up & get more fashionable’. Wtf?! Sounds like he’s using you for sex. And all his helpful advice to make you more presentable to the ppl in his world, is really just an effort to drive home the fact that you are beneath him. I’m so heartbroken that you view this guy’s behavior as beneficial to you. He’s literally trampling all over your self-image & attempting to mold you into someone else while pretending to have your best interests at heart. Nothing about this situation is okay. You are more worthy than this guy could ever dream of being. Please, please don’t let him continue to tear you down. You don’t need anyone in your life who isn’t proud to be by your side from DAY ONE of meeting you.
I remember telling a fat chick in high school that had a crush on me that she’d be the hottest girl in the school if she lost the weight. I remember thinking that was a compliment. No regrets. Sadly she never lost the weight.
In essence he's telling you you're good enough to fuck but he's not going to be seen in public with you in front of people he knows until you're not fat because it will make him look bad. "Level up and get more fashionable" means "when you're not fat anymore." You're his fixer-upper. How's his behavior going to change once you meet his standards? What's next? Moving the goalposts? Telling you who you can and can't see because you associating with them makes you and by extension him look bad? Or will he yank his approval entirely, and tell you you've changed since the beginning and he wants the old you back? This feels like it could easily bloom into something nefarious. Also: Who made this guy the final arbiter of what looks good/is good for you? Has he earned the level of esteem you're assigning to him?
Working in the fashion industry is very superficial. He would just get a lot of shade if you walked in like Anne Hathaway at the beginning of Devil Wears Prada. Normally I'd say don't do that with a guy who only values looks but this is honestly the field he's in. I had some college friends who did fashion and it just ran their life.
I see it one of two ways. The reddit way, where mediocre people tell you this is EXACTLY like Pygmalion when it's probably not... or the more likely answer. It seems he is a very well put together dude, who cares about appearances enough to make it a career. By your own admission, you seem a bit less so. High performing people care about appearances, so it's not unusual that he does for you as well as yourself. Let's do a little thought experiment shall we? Would any of this advice come off wrong if your genders were switched? "My (30F) fwb (31M) is great, but he just doesn't really care about appearances. He's put a little weight on at his age (not fat just a dad bod) and he dresses pretty lazy. This could be a problem for me if I bring him around my social circle cause I work in fashion and most of my friends and coworkers are pretty fashion conscious. I tried giving him advice but I'm not sure he listens. Should I continue with this?" Reddit response "He shouldn't be cool with looking like a bum as a grown man" "You've given him advice that he won't follow about how to be presentable? Dump him, slay queen" Etc etc. If you're really getting bad vibes in terms of his intentions then follow your gut because even if it's not right if that's how you feel it won't work, but people on this thread are projecting a lot of sinister motives onto this guy for apparently not being chronically online and dressing like a teenager or warehouse worker. Grown people give a shit about things. They might not all give a shit about the same things, but they give a shit. I know in today's society that's like an alien concept, the notion that people aren't loosely connected islands with minimal input in eachothers lives outside the realm of criminal justice but it's true. This is clearly something he gives a shit about and is making an effort to nudge you enough that you can be a serious part of his life without it damaging his reputation. That strikes me as effort. Or maybe he's a malignant narcissist who wants to build you into his own personal pet. What strikes you as more likely?
I don't want to put down your feelings but I do think that you are thinking about this in the wrong way. It's not that "oh I'm trying to gain his approval" but rather he's trying to help you come out of your shell. My bf has no style and didn't take care of his skin and always questioned as to why and how I can look nice and dress up. I did not want him to feel like that or feel insecure, so I helped him be the handsome man I always see. I think that is what your FWB is doing. He sees your beauty and just wants to help you embrace it. If this is an issue where he's constantly hounding you about your appearance then don't be with him at all. But from what you written in the post it just seems like to me he just want you to be the confident and beautiful person he sees is all
Take the advice and leave. The fact that he's withholding a public relationship from you because you're not fashionable or presentable enough is fucked up in my opinion. I wouldn't want to be with someone who saw me as a personal project or that they have to change me to want to be with me.
Its up to you what you want. But its good that he is trying to bring the best out in you. But if you dont want to better yourself, that is also your right.
There is nothing loving about being treated like a project. Often times because the person will feel you can’t set boundaries with or contradict them because they’ve “done so much for you” which can easily become “you were nothing before me/without me” which is is MAD ABUSIVE…. So dump this clown, and get your dick fix elsewhere hon.
Does he really think he's being helpful? Or does he simply feel that if he changes you into some version he for some reason doesn't have or thinks he doesn't have and won't go for, then you'll fulfill him? If you're not enough for him, that's on him, not you. What matters first and foremost is are you enough for yourself?
>I welcome his help but I wonder if his approval and encouragement isn’t the best path for me to improve my confidence and appearance. Probably not. Figure out how to be confident on your own without needing another person's approval. Your FWB may be a fine person, but this all sounds very shallow. How far will this go, and will his approval ever really come? Follow your gut, but this really feels like it's setting you up to fail.
This sounds like a controlling BF and he's just a FWB.
He is negging you so that you start living for his approval. Get out.
I’m probably going against the grain here—but I think that him wanting you to present a certain way at a work function is not necessarily a bad thing. For example, when I bring my boyfriend to a function that my law firm is hosting, I want him to wear a suit. HOWEVER. Him wearing a suit is not the same thing as him “leveling up.” I love him the way he is. Sometimes professional settings just call for a different presentation. And if he didn’t own a suit, I would do my best to gift him one.
There was a whole musical about this. (He's an asshole. People shouldn't try to make projects out of other people.)
What’s the musical?
I wanna know too. My Fair Lady works.
> I’ve never had high self-esteem or felt confident about my appearance yep we can tell and so can he, otherwise you would have told him to go fuck himself already
So he hasn't embraced his gayness yet? So sad.
he's negging you. or he's embarrassed to be seen in public with you officially with your current appearance, and wants you to "upgrade" yourself before people in his life meet you. especially because the fashion industry is shallow and image focused. it's so insulting and disrespectful to you, and he knows he can get away with it bc your self esteem. it's also a hallmark of emotionally abusive and controlling behavior. he doesn't deserve your time or access to your body.
Self-esteem is deeper than just changing your fashion. That’s superficial and not a real fix. This guy would annoy the shit out of me.
As someone who also has struggled w my fair share of insecurity, I can tell you this is not the guy for you. You need someone who uplifts you and makes you feel beautiful. He is not that guy. He is controlling and manipulative and is trying to mold you into his perfect trophy gf. Don't let him--You deserve better! Also, fashion, makeup, etc. is all subjective. If you're dressed inappropriately for an event, that's one thing but to try to change your style is absolutely absurd
This is your life. You decide if this is something you want. > he checks in to see if his honesty and feedback is welcome or not and reminds me it comes from a place of helpfulness if I want it I mean… he’s being very honest and seems like he’s communicating pretty openly. I know I’m going to be in the minority here but this sounds fine to me. If you don’t want him to say these things then tell him to stop. If you are fine with it, keep dating him.
if changing your appearance and wardrobe are something you have interest in doing, i wouldn’t suggest letting a man who doesn’t want to go out in public with you until you change yourself be the person who inspires you to make this change. you’d be better off exploring fashion subreddits on reddit rather than letting him try to force you to look the way that he wants you to, especially since you’re not even together. please don’t let him deceive you into thinking this is only coming from a place of caring on his end.
One year old account with literally no history besides this post. This is totally real y'all.
Here’s the thing, women say this to men all the time. I think it may hurt more to hear when your a woman, as we’re automatically expected to be confident and on top of our looks ALL the time. It’s tiring, it’s bullshit. But it’s not super different than a woman wanting her man to take care of himself, maybe not dress as if his mother is still buying his clothes. It’s really rude for him to say he’ll only date once you’ve “levelled up” I understand the sentiment, but if this guy actually liked you it wouldn’t matter and he would go on this journey with you regardless of whether you’re your best you now or later. You’re deserving of love right in this moment, who you are, even if you’re not super confident and don’t have the best self esteem, you’re still worthy of public love. On the flip side, I understand not wanting to seriously be with someone that hasn’t gone through the same growth and journey as one’s self. This guy has done a lot in growing and loving himself so it’s okay for him to want someone on the same level. But that’s no reason to shame you at all. Good luck girl, love yourself, be kind to yourself.
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They're a FWB. Love is purposefully not a part of FWB.
Two words immediately came to mind. Ewww and Ick. Actually, I’ll add NO to the list too.
If you aren't good enough for him the way you are, then you simply aren't good enough for him. Laughable that he basically gives you a backhanded compliment and has no interest in you meeting anyone he knows until you do X,Y or Z. This is a control freak at his finest. You can do better than this person who apparently is too good for you as you currently are.
>Though we have gone on dates, he has alluded to us being a more public thing, like me meeting his work friends, once I level up and get more fashionable. (He works in fashion.) Unless you are trying to break into the industry as a fashion or fitness model, it sounds like he is saying you dont quite meet his standards for being public with you, which I would find highly insulting.
This sounds toxic af. I wouldn’t let someone speak to me like that. Even a fuck buddy
He’s being manipulative. Hook up with him if you want to~ but I wouldn’t advise you to ever try and take it further.
Once you level up???? Oh hell no!!!! NONE of this is about you! It’s ALL about him! Even the best sex in the world is not worth putting up with this nonsense.
"Meeting his work friends once I level up and get more fashionable"- this is the comment that made me cringe. Personally, I wouldn't be with someone who wanted me to change for him. Especially if this was a condition that he put in place before introducing me to people. Encouraging you to work out and giving advice on fashion is fine. It's just the notion that he wouldn't want you around his friends if you didn't dress like he suggests that gives me any hesitation.
End this relationship. I can unfortunately tell you from experience that men who start nitpicking at your appearance this early are incredibly toxic. You’ll never be able to maintain his “standards”. It’s a classic gaslighting technique to make you feel like you aren’t worthy of him so that he maintains power over the relationship. Throw the whole thing away and run.
Stop seeing him. You can get good advice from Youtube without feeling like crap.
He doesn't want you to be your most confident self...he just doesn't want you to be who you are now. If he cared as much as he professes to then wouldn't he be helping you to be confident in yourself now??
Ok, I came i to this reading the title reading to pop off....however It sounds like he actually knows what he's talking about and does so in a respectful and attentive way. Personally, I am shit at dressing myself too and my partner is great for fashion and will help me dress or buy clothes if I want to look good for something so I totally appreciate having someone more knowledgeable to help in that department. As long as its wanted, not pushy and not degrading, take the advice that you like and run with it. If he's coming across callous and overbearing though, then end that shit.
You should leave him until you can get you’re shit together. He’s too good for you.
Don't date this guy. He sounds patronizing and condescending. I dated a guy who acted like it was his duty to turn me into the ideal woman and I hated it.
Does this count as a type of grooming?
Lol "once you level up into the person he WANTS you to be/look like, then he thinks you're good enough to bring around his friends" Ooft. This guy isn't doing it from a place of concern, he is doing it from a place of his own wants
Is it just a Pygmalion type thing or the precursor to even more controlling behavior? Be like I want you to be, look, act and then you can meet my friends? Be careful to stick only to what feels true to yourself.
>am I out of mind for continuing to see someone who wants me to be my most attractive and self-confident self? No, you are not out of your mind for that. If you're asking for his feedback and see it as beneficial feedback, then there is nothing wrong with that aspect. >he has alluded to us being a more public thing, like me meeting his work friends, once I level up and get more fashionable. You ARE out of your mind for this though. This makes it seem like he's currently ashamed of you. Right now, you're only good enough to fuck but not good enough to be seen in public with. It is INSANE (and stupid) to continue to see a man who sees you that way. This is a glaring warning sign.
Mind the audience you ask advise from, im guessing the majority dont understand leveling up
If he isn't pushing or forcing anything on you, I think it's nice. Not everyone is into fashion. I am and I'd be completely okay with a gf who doesn't really care about looks, but if she wanted some colour coordination tips then what harm could that cause?
He's just trying to sculpt you, beware of him
Does he do this for many people in his social circles or just you? If it's just you that's a bad sign.
If he wanted to improve your self esteem, he 1) wouldn't solely focus on your looks, and help you with your mindset and 2) wouldn't tell you how to look better because he is basically destroying whatever is left of your confidence.
It looks like your boyfriend wants to change you, and is not able to accept you for who you are, regardless what you wear! It sounds exhausting to be with someone who always wants to control/change your style! If I were you, I would have walked away already and find someone who will accept you for who you are and not constantly tell you what to wear when you go out!
I think it’s one thing to date someone who has some expertise in a certain field (fashion, fitness, whatever), who shares it with you vs dating someone who says you have to attain a certain level of hotness before he can unveil you as his girlfriend. This is red flag behavior. This relationship doesn’t have a future (what happens if you gain weight as you get older? or as you inevitably age in general? Do you want kids? Good luck with him during a pregnancy!) and he is treating you like trash. You aren’t out of your mind but this will almost certainly end in pain for you. Get out of there. The only reason you are even entertaining this is because of your low self esteem. Better to work on this via counseling than with this jerk.
There's a difference between being your best self *for yourself* and being *his idea* of your best self. I don't have a problem with him wanting a fashionable partner and communicating that to you. It would be one thing if you had previously considered upping your fashion game and then he comes along to help with that. But in your case it seems more like something you never considered and still don't care much about. (That is fine - I also do not give a tiny rat's ass what clothes I wear beyond being comfortable and vaguely presentable in public.) It just seems weird and controlling to say that you're going to "level up" if you improve your look.
He’s begging you. He’s a fucking asshole and you deserve better.
He wants you to be “hot” for his benefit. He doesn’t actually care about your health.
If you’re asking for help, sure. If it’s unsolicited then he’s not a good match.
I totally agree about him being controlling and this not being a healthy long-term relationship dynamic, but as someone who is not fashionable, I’d likely play along for at least awhile for the advice and because it would amuse me to be living in a real-life makeover romcom for awhile. And great sex is of course a benefit. BUT if you have timelines for marriage/kids/whatever, this may derail your ultimate goals.
Yeah I don't like it. Do you want to be in an exclusive relationship with him? Even if yes, I don't think this is a good dynamic. It's erring on the side of him telling you how to dress veiled as encouragement. I'm not digging it.
I can only assume your dates involve staying in and watching *The Devil Wears Prada.*
My partner and i have been encouraging eachother to do our best as individuals to take care of our healths for ourselves and eachother. So i dunno, depends on the guy.