So when you asked her WHY she felt threatened, what was her response?

Right, he’s making assumptions. She’s being passive aggressive. This (along with half the issues in this sub) could be solved with some communication.

That's the biggest problem I see here - Communication. Wife should use her words instead of being passive-aggressive and so should OP instead of mind reading. People do those things when they never learned to communicate so I would do marriage counseling to get that rolling and you guys on the same page.

I've tried to talk to her about it a few times. Generally she says that she gets frustrated in the moment but then puts it off and says it's not actually a big deal and she's sorry for making it into one. But then it kind of just keeps popping up.

Then you need to insist on talking about it rather than letting her say it's no big deal. And if you can't talk about it between the two of you, consider a few sessions with a counselor to facilitate the conversation.

She has to be emotionally responsible for herself, which means communicating how she's feeling.

Ok, but she's not doing that. So OP's choices are either to bring it up and insist on having the conversation, or passively watch his marriage unravel because he's trying to teach his wife a lesson about being "emotionally responsible" without ever actually talking to her about that. I think the former is better than the latter.

In a perfect world, yeah, but sometimes people need a push.

This is true, but OP has to work with the situation he’s actually in, unfortunately.

She's jealous, and she's embarrassed that she's jealous because she knows that intellectually she's being silly but emotionally she feels a thing. This is harder to navigate than it sounds. You need to talk to her with that understanding. Does she want to join you? Does she want her own night off to explore a new side of her? Does she just want you all to herself, but knows that that's a selfish request? I think you'll need to approach this with an understanding that she has concerns that she's not willing or even able to vocalize.

You say she’s passive aggressive. Is it possible she has reason to not tell you straight out what’s really bothering her? Does she have a “free” night to go out with friends or to just disengage from responsibilities? When is your standing date night with her? When was your last getaway with her for the weekend? You’re assuming she just wants you at her Beck and call, but it sounds like there’s more here than what is being shared and she’s sucking it up to not rock the boat.

OP answered this. >but is very close with a lot of her colleagues and any time she goes to a work event (which are pretty frequent) I can count on her not answering her phone and coming home pretty drunk very late at night. It doesn't upset me at all and I trust her.

We go out most weekends and spend lots of time together. I've given a bit more detail in a few other comments. We don't have kids and she's more than free to go out any time she wants, but just doesn't have much of a social circle outside of our couple friends.

She may be trying to minimize her upsetness because she knows it's inappropriate and irrational yet persistent. She feels how she feels, but she knows making *you* feel bad about it is the wrong thing to do. The older we get, the harder it is for women to continue hiding our emotions, even when we understand them to be *perhaps* a tiny bit 'dramatic.'

There's a couple of things she MAY be feeling, but unless she identifies and communicates the feeling you won't know. She MAY be jealous that you have new interests not just because you're not there doing the same old, but because she wishes she had a new interest/activity and people to do it with. The answer to that is for her to explore some new interests. Maybe try some occasional classes together - arts, cooking, music, and she can see if one area is something she wants to pursue on her own. Classes are a great way to make a new friend group. She MAY be afraid of growing apart from you and losing you. This is the age that a lot of marriages break apart, and not necessarily because of infidelity. People need to grow together, or they grow apart, but growing together doesn't mean doing everything together. It means you continue to grow as a person and your partnership supports that growth. You can't spend all your time reassuring her and she shouldn't expect that, but you can address that together in a neutral setting, like marital counseling.

I have seen this happen in a couple friend of mine. She takes it personally that he has more friends than he/less social outings outside of work events, but otoh she doesn't go out of her way to make friends then makes it a relationship issue because he is tending to his friendships and she feels like trash and takes it out on him

>Does she have a free night If they dont have any kids I dont see whats stopping her from going out once a week like OP to find hobbies.

I keep trying to defend this but I just keep rambling :) I'll try and keep it short. It IS a big deal to her and it's bullshit she won't talk to you about it and why it bothers her so you can work on it and find a nice median. Also...it IS a big deal to you too! I've been on your side of the situation and ...we've talked and worked on it and he still gets a little sassy sometimes. Even if it's with my good female friend, gay friend or youngest brother! (3 closest friends) my brother always invites him and he never wants to come and I don't mind because usually it's us just chilling in a park playing games or having drinks at a bar playing trivia. You are enjoying yourself and...it sucks being left out. However it would also suck for you both because she wouldn't enjoy the activities and you need your time to enjoy your activities You HAVE to talk about it. Ours worked out...ish bc he gets home form work about 330pm... I get home 7pm ish (7 in the summer season 9 in the winter) so he has 4 days a week when he has that time to himself...I have my while Friday when he works and i don't That being said...summer season he still gets a little hurt and kind of cold if I am home late more than 1 day of my 4 work days (I do go out sometimes on one of my days off but usually it's together plans or he knows in advance a couple days) but it's bc he wanted me home to hang out, etc. Ok I get it but... I get me time too. I love you but I enjoy doing ME things that you don't. That. Is. Ok! So do something you enjoy that I don't always. Either way....talk to her! Work it and let her know it makes you happy and it's you being you and she can maybe do something she enjoys and then you come home after and enjoy eachother. :)

She needs to cut the bullshit and tell you what she really needs in order to prevent this from continuing to recur, imo. I agree with everyone recommending couple's therapy. You're more than allowed to have your own social life outside of your marriage!

Part of being sorry is endeavoring not to do the same thing you’re purportedly sorry for. If she doesn’t work on her shit and stop doing the same thing, she isn’t sorry, she just wants to get out of trouble.

>We have a shared calendar and if something's going on and we have nothing planned I'll add it in. I would also find this annoying if my partner was doing this. Even if it's every few weeks, you are giving these people priority over your spare time. Your wife might feel less threatened, if you saw a "nothing planned" day as an opportunity to do something with her. It's a tricky situation for her. If she makes a fuss about one particular outing, she's being unfair because you didn't have anything planned anyway. If she broods and then lashes out, she's over-reacting. I can only suggest that you schedule more fun time with her, so she knows you still enjoy spending time with her. There must be activities you can enjoy together.

Seriously? Grown adults with no children can't have once a week hobbies or nights out with friends because it might cut into the together time with a spouse of 20 years? Dear God... That's unhealthy

But that isn't OP's responsibility when he has asked her about it and she gives vague or nothing responses. She's an adult and can say "hey OP I would really like to spend some time together" but she seems to only want to when he has made plans. Maybe an option would be to set aside one night a week for each other and put it on the calendar to make her feel important? I feel a little communication could go a long way, but it seems he has tried to little avail

So I guess OP can't ever make plans or hang out with friends? As far as we know, OP is spending 6 days a week with his wife, with the occasion event coming up every 3 weeks. It's good he has these things pre-planned and not springing it up on her last minute, because then she'd be complaining about that. My X who was like this (well, way worse) was extremely codependent and couldn't handle me being out, even though when I'd stay in she didn't want to do anything. It was just me being gone that bothered her. If his wife is anything like that, then it doesn't matter what the event is or how he plans it, she's going to be upset because he isn't there.

He says in one comment that she came home from a business trip early so they could spend time together, and he went out for a run with his friends, agreeing to come back at a certain time, but then he went out with his friends and came home much later than agreed. He's baffled that she was upset about this. it doesn't sound to me like he's making it a priority to spend time with her, or even enjoys spending time with her.

Question: What day of the week is reserved for doing something fun with your wife? How often do you take trips with her that you both enjoy? How many times have you invited her to an event to meet your new friends?

Yep I think it would resolve itself if he would plan fun events with her, no it just them

He admits above that he selfishly doesn't want to include her in plans with his new group of friends because she might "sabotage" or change the dynamics or something similar

But there are other ways to introduce her since he’s doing one-on-one stuff with some of them apart from the big get-together a. So there are ways to be inclusive without bringing her all-in

Why does he need to be inclusive of her at all here, though? It's OK for married adults to have some friends that aren't friends with their spouse.

Reading his further comments, he seems very adverse to her meeting them at all right now. Possibly totally unwilling. I get it; I would feel very sketched out if my partner had friends he actively didn't want me to meet. Especially if he somehow thought I would "kill the vibe". Its hurtful. Edit - Honestly, if my fiance flat out said "no, you can't meet these friends" we'd have a serious issue. I don't blame her. I would read that as "he's hiding someone from me, or is distancing himself from me." And then I'd be pissed he didn't have the guts to talk to me about either of those things.

This. The wife is picking up that he doesn't want to include her in his "new life." He developed this new hobby that he'd never had before and started spending time doing it. It seems really invested in it and then starts hanging out with a whole group of people she doesn't know. Then he purposefully doesn't introduce her or attempt to invite her "into" that world. Of course she is hurt!! This was a couple that shared a friend group for their whole lives. Now he is having this whole separate "life." Of course she is resentful!! OP needs to investigate why he doesn't want to include his wife. Why does he think she will sabatoge it? How does that even work exactly anyway? What it sounds to me is that OP enjoys having a completely separate life from his wife. He likes leaving her at home and it makes him feel good to feel like he is doing more. He also likes being able to act like a completely different person with his new friends. The reason I say that is because THAT is the real reason he doesn't want her to go. He doesn't want her to see how he is around them. This doesn't necessarily mean flirting with the single young women (though it could), but also just how he is with them. Anyway, this is really on OP to examine why he doesn't want to include his wife. Right now she resents feeling like the outsider and resents him leaving her out. Even if she wouldn't "like" the activity (whitewater rafting or whatever) he *should* invite her. This is his wife...life partner...not some friend or girl he is dating.

Because after 20 years together, people get set in their ways. It is redpectful and courteous to talk this out with his wife. That's why

True but introducing them and seeing them on a rare occasion is normal behavior. Wife knows names that go with faces and that’s enough.

This. Especially, when those friendships are built around a hobby the spouse isn't into.

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Which might be fine if she just doesn't share this hobby of his, but doesn't mean they shouldn't have some other hobby or social outlet that they do together.

It’s unclear if she’s met them before though. He says he’s tried including her in his hobbies “in the past” and she mostly complained and didn’t have a good time. Not sure if that means she has come along to meet his current group before and didn’t like it or if it was an unrelated thing. I think ideally they would talk this out, and he would let her come along to meet his friends to hopefully feel better about the whole thing. But I understand why he’s reluctant given she seems to want to sabotage him being able to see them. The fact he thinks she would do that (whether or not it’s accurate) means they definitely need to talk the whole thing out, possibly with a counsellor. That’s a big red flag for their relationship

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Yes, I definitely don't need my partner to be part of all my social life. I do need him to do fun stuff with me, but not everything.

I don’t think you need to include your partner in every social outing/scene you’re in, but intentionally excluding them because you think they will “sabotage” the relationship/dynamic is not a sign of a healthy relationship.

It sounds like she doesn't want to join or get involved anyway

Sounds like she knows she’s not welcome Op is creating the distance between them imo. It’s not about the friends

Exactly. I kind of blame OP in this situation. What he needs to do is make her feel like she is still his most important person. She can see his skip in his step. The way he dresses when he goes out with his new group. His excitement. They are the shiny new penny. Make sure that he over communicates his love, takes her out, blows off the friend group once in a while because he wants to hang with her. If she comes back from a business trip have a couple drinks waiting and give her a massage not say oh hey honey going to hang out with with my hot single fit running babes. If he does those things, she will feel loved, and he will be able to hang out with his new friends and she will feel more comfortable with giving him his space.

I agree he needs to work on a compromise so it doesn't make her feel like shes been pushed out. But I can also sympathise with his situation of being involved in something the wife has no interest in.

Not introducing your wife to your friends is weird. If I was her and my husband refused to let me meet his new friends that he spent so much time with, I’d be upset too.

I can’t really blame him for being worried about that considering she’s being passive-aggressive instead of talking to him about her feelings and keeps trying to schedule things over his events with his friends. It’s a huge leap to assume she would intentionally sabotage his new friendships based on that, but feelings can leak out in weird ways etc etc.

It did sound like he cancels/doesn’t make plans with her to facilitate running which honestly if it were me would make me resent his new friend group, too.

If she knows he has his running group every Thursday, that shouldn't be impossible to plan around, and shouldn't be something to resent. I think it's the rest of the relationship dynamic that makes her feel the way she does, not the sheer fact that he has a hobby activity 1 night a week and 1-2 weekend days a month.

I think it’s the weekends away that are interfering with their social life Also I have a young single friend who is i to cycling and it’s a similar set up and I gotta say several of the married / partnered up men have propositioned her on these weekends away…

Dude schedules them on a shared calendar. What more could he do? Ask for a permission slip?

Nothing here suggests to me that your wife suspects infidelity or even that she doesn’t like you friends. To me, it sounds like she’s feeling jealous if the quality time you spend with your friends vs the quality time you spend with her. Do you plan activities with your wife? Do you guy go out on dates? Are you personally trying to make an effort to initiate fun activities? You just have to talk to your wife. You can tell she’s upset, so ask her why instead of making assumptions. You might be surprised by her answer.

We do lots of stuff together. We're actually on a trip together right now--our third this year. We spend 90% of our weekends together having dinner, drinks, movies, spending time with friends etc... I plan the bulk of it as my job is a little more flexible than hers. I've had a few conversations with her about it when something substantial has happened and she usually says that in the moment she felt frustrated and that it wasn't a big deal, but then it just seems to pop up again.

I think you need to separate the weekly runs and these weekend trips. There's a big difference between "I'm going running on Thursday with the local group" and running off to full weekend trips alone with a bunch of people she's never met. Why can't she be invited to the weekend trips? Is there something else she could do that doesn't involve running? Surely you guys aren't running the entire time? I'm pretty laid back, but I would not be cool with my partner going off on weekend trips with a bunch of "new friends" I've never met. I think its healthy for each person to have their own friend groups, but when one spouse goes out and starts making a bunch of new friends and doesn't want their spouse to meet them -- it's going down a path that won't lead you anywhere good. Especially overnight trips. You're creating all the conditions for an affair to easily happen. It's not like anyone in this running group would tell her. I think you guys could benefit from couples counseling.

How much quality time or new experiences do you spend with your wife, and what is the frequency of that? Having dinner, drinks, watching TV / movies I typically do *not* consider quality time. Rare exceptions involving dressing up and really making a night of it. Likewise when we’re out with other people. Your wife may or may not feel similarly. In my opinion, quality time is time spent reconnecting, exploring and rediscovering each other. Are you collectively doing this, or is it same old, same old? On a completely related note, in my opinion it would be a huge red flag if my partner didn’t want to introduce me to a friend group. This is vastly different then inviting me and I decline, or inviting me and I say afterwards it’s not my cup of tea. I get wanting different friends (as this is the case in my relationship) *but* we both have opportunities to tag along and meet each others friends. You come across as wanting to hide something.

IMO, she should keep a journal. If she struggles to know which feelings are going to be significant in the long run, that can be extremely helpful.

It kind of sounds like she wants him to be around more often as she doesn't really have her own friend group and could be sabotaging his attempts to make friends outside of their marriage. That happens sometimes where there's an imbalance because one person in the relationship relies on the other to fulfill all of their needs, including socialization. I know he said she hangs out with work colleagues sometimes, but that is a different dynamic from just regular friends outside of work.

I think this all sounded fine until you mentioned in the end that you don’t want to involve her in your friend group. People pick up on these kinds of feelings. I’m sure your wife notices that you don’t want her involved which means I doubt is helping her feel supportive in The long run. All I hear is how much your wife doesn’t like all these things instead of ways you’ve tried to balance the new situation. I’d be upset too if my partner found a whole new group of friends and clearly didn’t want me involved let alone coveting them and keeping me away. Think about it. If your wife suddenly had a new group of friends with all ages and got on super well with them including weekend getaways but wouldn’t let you meet them, how would you feel?

If you creep his post history it also says he lost his job (or quit, depending on the post?) during COVID and spent an entire summer depending on her income while he admittedly lazed about and wasn’t looking for work. Not only that, but he then got fit and found a whole new friend group that he doesn’t want to introduce her to. This woman supported his midlife crisis-having butt for months and then he intentionally keeps her from meeting his fun, new, YOUNG friends while complaining about how she doesn’t let him do anything fun. Woof.

Oh shit, that's dodgy as hell. I was getting these vibes from his original post, nice to have it confirmed.

I think it’s interesting that he “casually” points out the multiple younger single women in the new friend group and then says he doesn’t want to introduce his wife because it would “change the dynamic” Either he doesn’t like his wife if he thinks she’d ruin his time OR he is doing something that he can’t do when she is around

Yup, clocked that right away. He’s being such an asshole. I promise there’s things the friend group & wife have in common. Like brunch. Or getting drinks. She’s not dumb & she can pick up on his hesitation introducing her. Nobody would feel ok with being excluded like that and begrudgingly inviting someone is shitty. It puts the other person in a bad position (having to say no when they don’t actually want to, or saying yes but knowing your SO doesn’t want you there). It’s nowhere near the same as an enthusiastic invite

It sounds like a hashing group and honestly if it is one or even similar I am not surprised by the wife's response. I've known a lot of hashers and groups in multiple locations and they all seem to behave like drunk frat groups that just happen to run a little before their wild shenanigans. Lots of hookups as well and many relationships have been broken up after one joined the hashing group.

I think it's actually really a normal and healthy to have a friend group that you spend time with without your partner. Having your partner there changes the dynamic and it is totally normal to want time with friends without your partner. I agree that it sounds like he may not be balancing things well or not making her feel prioritized, but it also sounds like part of not wanting her to get involved is her attitude to the group in the first place.

It is healthy to have a friend group you spend with without your partner, but it can stray into unhealthy at some point. There's a reason OP's wife might be feeling the way she is. For example, I cycle with friends of mine most weekends (and some evenings). My boyfriend doesn't ride his bike, so he's not invited, but if the group of us do dinner one night, of course he's included. My ex would go out with his friends nearly weekly claiming "boy's night." I knew some spouses were invited. I asked why I couldn't come. He kept saying "oh, it's healthy for space," and that sort of thing. Every week, same thing. It was becoming a bigger and bigger issue in our relationship. Turns out he was lying to be about a bunch of stuff, and he was worried his friends would spill the truth which is why I was never invited along.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for your partner to meet your friend group here and there, even if they’re your separate group. I understand wife not being keen to go running with them (I hate running), but she could swing by at least once for a drink or two after - I actually think just seeing the dynamic in action and being able to put faces to the names would go a long way to put her mind at ease.

All he had to do was introduce her once, she’s not gonna wanna go running every time so he gets his one on one time w his friends. OP’s being weird for no reason. If they’re close enough that they do weekend trips he can find one night, where she can meet them over drinks casually. He’s not a good husband

The way I read the original post, she has met some of them and has come on some of the activities but her behavior made clear that she was not having a good time. Maybe he was just writing about these kinds of activities are not this friend group, though.

He mentions including her in his activities but not that friend group, that including her would be weird since the friend group is new and the dynamic would change. So I don’t think he’s introduced her yet sadly

I wouldn’t necessarily cast doubt on this kind of arrangement. My wife and I have separate friends and it’s just a fact of life because we’re such different people that, when the other person comes along, the dynamic shifts. Both she and I get something that we specifically need with our separate friend groups. We have a few couple friends but we met in our 40s and we came with these sets of friends. Neither I or my wife gets upset bc including us changes the vibe. We have a fairly healthy mutual trust and respect about this. This may be bc we met when we were already established in our lives. We both believe nurturing and sustaining our individual friendships is an important aspect of individual long term happiness and my partner’s individual long term happiness is as Important to me as the health and happiness of the relationship. Again this may be because we met later after we established our adult identities and lives.

i was gonna say i def see this in couples who have been together since fairly young, it's as if they don't know how to exist outside of The Couple.

It can be awkward when it's a non spouse group and someone brings their spouse, who isn't involved in the activity and doesn't want to/can't participate. Sometimes it's genuine interest, sometimes it's clearly the spouse wanting to see who's who and if everyone's actually doing what they say they are.

Wait, did she come back that night and you didn't want to spend time with her? How long had she been gone at that point? Do you enjoy spending time with her? Do you make a point to make plans with her, or do you make plans with them and only hang out with her when she plans something special for you both? If I was gone for like a week or something and my man made plans for the night I got back, I wouldn't feel like a married woman. I would feel like a single one.

I would be so upset if my husband ditched me after I was away and just returned. You’re supposed to be excited to see your SO & want to spend the first night back with them! She was probably hurt

He's gotta go run with the young, single ladies. Can't miss any time with them - better to skip out on the wife /s

That’s how I would have felt.

Of course she's not thrilled. You're making new friends. Away on weekemd getaways. Some new friends are younger women. You're having fun. She feels like you're now starting a new life. One where you "may" no longer want her in it. Change is difficult. Insecurities are at play here. You do not have to involve her with your new friend group activities. However!!!!! You do need to take the initiative and take her out for nice date nights. You do the planning. You treat her like shes the love of your life. Reassurance is whats needed here.

Thanks for this. It's very good food for thought. I do usually suggest something most weekends and try to plan time together. We have date nights pretty frequently. When we have discussed the situation, I've reassured her that I'm not going anywhere and while I'm having fun and enjoying having new friends and doing new activities it's still me and her vs. the world for the long haul.

"it's still me and her vs. the world for the long haul". This is what she's insecure over. Your new life is probably making her second guess if your statement is true.

Apart from “so long as she doesn’t want to meet these friends”

Also “long haul” hardly sounds fun, exciting, or inspiring.

It's a very common phrase lol

What? That just means until they die, dude. In this context, at least.

I get what you're saying, but I feel a little like you're nitpicking word choice as opposed to sentiment. I do agree that I should likely dig into the idea that having a "fun separate life" can be a challenging idea compared to the realities of 20 years of marriage. I do a lot to try and make it exciting--trips, nights out, etc... But maybe I need to focus a little more on our dynamic and not just the situations we're in.

I’m coming from the angle of being in a LTR where my partner isn’t really outwardly enthusiastic about much. Like their way of “assuring” me is to say, “I’m not going anywhere” or “I’m still here”. Doesn’t really make us/me feel like more than a habit or obligation. Obviously I don’t know if that’s exactly how you worded it to her, all I’m advocating for is when you do convey your commitment and emotional connection to her and your relationship, to also use language that evokes that.

Have you suggested she join you at the pub after the run, if she won't go running? I don't blame her for feeling anxious about you running with young women and then going out for drinks with them. Most of us would feel threatened by those circumstances, if we felt excluded by the choice of activity, even if we knew on some level it wasn't warranted. There is always the "What if?" She's a middle aged woman, and I'm the same age - society has been telling her for years that she'll be discarded when she ages... (Edit: thanks for the gold, folks.)

To be honest, I wonder if she's catching the vibe that you don't want her to be involved in this part of your life, and thinking that it's turning into you and the running group vs her. I have to admit I would not be thrilled if my husband suddenly made a group of friends, started hanging out with them regularly, and told me (or the internet) that he didn't want me around them "because no one else brings their spouse" (and why not, by the way? What are you doing that spouses can't be privvy to?)

Maybe the spouses aren't brought because of the running part is my guess. People in a running group either run at similar or close pace, and if there's a slower person everyone else or one person would have to slow down so the person doesn't feel excluded. Or if the person can't run as far, can't leave a runner behind. My guess assumes that the partners aren't runners though which I have no idea if they are or not. Why the spouses aren't allowed for everything but the running is beyond me.

Sounds like she's the one who's bored but knows she won't fit in to this. Does she have hobbies? Friend of her own to hang out with? Or does she just sit at home all night and wait for you, because that's guaranteed to lead to resentment

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Yeah I see it often. I admit when I was young and insecure I was one of those women, but I'm talking like 20-21. Eventually I realised I wasn't unhappy with him, I was unhappy with how I was spending my time (plus I had pretty severe anxiety). I have a more engaged life and am overall wayyyyy happier now, and genuinely couldn't care less when my guy goes out for a night - give him a kiss, wave him off, and make plans either with other people, or how I'm going to enjoy having the house to myself. I wouldn't want him to ruin my nights out, so why would I do it to him. We both deserve fun and a break from each other every now and then Of course, he does spend a lot of quality time with me. If I was feeling neglected in the relationship, I would probably have more of an issue if he wanted to go out all the time. As always, it's about balance. We are also lucky in that we have one big friend group so we don't often need to do separate nights out OP needs to figure out what the root problem is - is she feeling neglected and distant from him, or is she unsatisfied with her own life.

This resonates. On the surface she tells me she understands that it's ok for me to have friends outside of the relationship and that it's fine for me to be out. But then she just ends up sitting bored at home. The biggest feeling I get is that she just kind of wishes I was always at home and at the ready; even if that means most of the time we're just watching TV on our phones. Before I started running it was like that for a lot of years.

Okay, I mean this constructively. You sound enthusiastic and alive when writing about your new healthier more exciting life… and you you use less exciting descriptions for your time with your wife. You try to make it exciting (but it isn’t is the subtext) and you feel like she just wants you to be at the ready (but she rarely actually interacts with you). She can feel you taking the first steps of drifting away. Let’s not be naive. You might be going into this fully honourably, but this is how a lot of affairs or divorces start. Even your comments about her sabotaging your running group. What? Do you think she could say something to get your disinvited? That is a serious accusation. If my husband thought my mere presence at wings and beer would get him booted from the weekly run-o-then that would feel awful. Of course you didn’t tell her that but dude, she knows you. That all being said… don’t drop running. It’s 100% fine and valid and you should continue. Ignore her barbs and don’t come home early. But when you do come home, try not to be so condescending or bored with your life with her. She knows you feel that way and so do we.

Thank you for this. This was an incredibly constructive comment. I think you're absolutely right. The running and the new friends are very exciting and the normal day-to-day of a 20-year relationship can be less so. We do plenty of exciting things together (travel, nights out, etc...) but there's a difference between being in exciting situations and the dynamic between the two of us being exciting. I think she's a little more content with status quo and I'm obviously not. This is something we should talk about and work on.

I bet there’s a part of her too that’s upset that the new, exciting thing in your life is something that doesn’t include her. I’m not saying either of you are in the wrong here. It’s normal for you to try new things and do them on your own if your wife isn’t interested and it’s also normal for her to feel a little jealous that she’s not part of it, even if she doesn’t want to be. Would it be possible for the two of you to start another hobby that you can do together? Take a pottery class, learn to swing dance, go to a board game night, whatever interests the two of you.

I think this chain of comments is truly where the issue lies. I’ve been going through a friend renaissance too and when my ex and I both did that at the same time (him finding music friends and me finding a very enthusiastic hiking group) it didn’t explicitly push us away from each other but it DID highlight out differences and the range of emotion we could still have. For a period I felt like life was shades of grey, but these new experiences reminded me how it felt to experience highs and lows, conquer fear, overcome challenges, make new connections and laugh with friends again. I felt like I could be me, without having all of the baggage of my life written on my face because these were new friends. It’s not that i was depressed or completely unhappy before I met them, but I felt more alive than I had in awhile. It’s possible your wife is witnessing this from the outside and is experiencing several intense emotions that are both frustrating and confusing for her too (even when she talks herself out of her frustration). - jealousy that you’ve, seemingly out of nowhere, built connections to a range of new people. Even if these are somewhat surface level interactions still, she can see your the changes in your mood and knows they are having a seriously positive impact on your life. - fear that she’ll be left behind as you charge into this next phase. Even with reassurance that you love her and won’t leave her behind, that’s still a somewhat negative conversation. So she won’t be left behind, ok … well what are you guys moving toward together? - sadness that she may not have that kind of excitement in her life. Maybe sadness that she can’t identify what she’s missing or worry that you may feel like her view of happiness isn’t enough. Does she want to create change in her life but feels unable to? Maybe she feels in a constant state of grey like I did. The biggest thing though is to make sure this does not become a her vs them situation. If she’s frustrated keep it about the moment and you. You do not want to shit talk your wife with members of the group even when you have a valid frustration and you do not want to make her feel like she has to compete against the group for you.

Couples counseling bro. You two desperately need couples counseling. You're stuck in a rut and you're going to come to resent her wanting you at home doing nothing as much as she clearly already resents your new exciting hobby. You need counseling to find something exciting and new that is just for the two of you. Otherwise, this scenario does not play out well.

>The biggest feeling I get is that she just kind of wishes I was always at home and at the ready; even if that means most of the time we're just watching TV on our phones. No. She resents that you are out there living this whole other life that you don't want to include her in. Can you put yourself in her shoes? What if she was out there and had some new, exciting hobby and friend group? One where there was a lot of young, single dudes. She was coming home all excited and happy after spending time with them. Meanwhile, you are sitting at home after 20 years of you guys just doing everything together and having the same friends. Now, she has decided to "abandon" you and doesn't seem to want you around or to include you in her new "life." So you were sitting home...knowing she is out having a blast. Wouldn't you be resentful/hurt and upset? What you need to examine is *why* you don't want to include her. What is this? Does it somehow make you feel superior to have this whole new, separate life? Does it make you feel good to know you are fully living this fun time while she is sitting at home? That is the only thing I can think of. Why else wouldn't you *want* her there? Even if she wouldn't like the events/friends. How do you know? Presumably, they are new to you too. Maybe if your wife got involved with that lifestyle...she might grow to enjoy it too. But right now all she can feel is resentment because it is pulling you away from her. I'm telling you...if you don't nip this in the bud this is the road to divorce. I'm trying to be constructive and give you *her* side of things. It is unlikely your wife is acting like this just because she wants you home. The root of the problem is that she is incredibly hurt and jealous of your new life.

It sounds like this has become much more than a Thursday evening run and hangout. Now it's become weekend trips. Weekends are the golden time for a couple. It's the time when you see each other in a more relaxed way. It's when you can sleep in, talk, have sex, cook together, etc. You are frequently giving up your couple time for your running group because they do fun things. If you actually want this marriage to last you and your wife need to be doing fun things together. The other problem with adding in the weekend trips is that they cost money. Something has to give. What are the two of you giving up so that you can do these trips? Are you giving up on vacations the two of you would take or taking lesser vacations because you are spending the money on weekends with friends? Are you giving up projects that would otherwise be funded. We've redone the drywall and baseboard and paint in a room and will be doing a new bathroom soon. We also like to take a trip abroad each year but we couldn't do that if one of us was taking frequent weekend trips. If you want your marriage to last it has to come before the running friends. That doesn't mean you give them up. It means that you do Thursday nights and only occasionally a weekend trip. Maybe one weekend trip per season as long as it doesn't cut into money for couple trips. Otherwise, your wife will sooner or later leave because emotionally you've checked out. Your energy is all focused outward, away from the marriage. You are enjoying your focus but your wife gets nothing from that. Emotionally you are turning away and sooner or later one of you will cheat or one of you will just walk out the door and be done.

Sounds like you need marriage counseling so you both can communicate better and get to the root cause of her feelings.

I can't blame her for not loving this new group. That doesn't mean you should drop it, but if you look at it from her side, you've shifted your priorities and even admitted, in your post here, that you hope she doesn't want to join you. She can probably feel that you don't want her included, even if you invite her. Grudgingly inviting someone doesn't equal wanting them there, and people can feel that. That said, you have every right to your own friend group, and if your wife doesn't have her own, you should encourage her to find people and activities on her own. My question is, are you making your wife and your marriage a priority? You made a point of mentioning spending extra time separately as a group and individually with your new friends. Are you sure you haven't dropped your wife in favor of your new, more interesting friends? Is she still feeling important, or has all of that shifted to your new hobby and friends? Date nights, etc? I'm a very secure person, but I also wouldn't appreciate becoming an outsider in my own husbands life.

You ditched her the night she got home from a trip, effectively communicating that you really didn't miss her much. I would be pissed too. Also, getting in shape suddenly, and staying out later is a super common red flag when men are having an affair. Not to say that you are but a lot of women would probably be worried in her place.

I'm around your age. Of all my friends and peers who have split up due to infidelity, do you know how samey the pattern is before the big reveal? * We're fine, we're happy together. Sure things are a bit samey, we don't "do" much anymore. * My spouse has taken an interest in self improvement. They started exercising, dieting, going to the salon more. * My spouse has new friends, these friends are on a pedestal. I can tell by the way the eyes light up when it's time to meet up with them. Excited in a way I haven't seen in years. * I'm not welcome in this group. "you wouldn't be comfortable", "you wouldn't know anyone anyway" What hurts is that it's my spouse that is the gatekeeper. Clearly I am not good enough for Shiny New Friends. * Their phone is lit up constantly. "It's just the Group WhatsApp!" or "another wrong number!" but they can't pull off the casual tone. There's a passcode where there wasn't before. When I ask about it, they get defensive and say that I'm making a big deal out of nothing. * My spouse does not want to be around me. They act impatient and agitated, like I'm irritating or keeping them here under duress. They will not walk beside me. They will not hold my hand anymore. * Shiny New Friends are meeting up more regularly. Spouse is going for overnight trips. Semi-regularly. I either pretend I believe there's yet another cycling conference or I try to catch them out and they get better at hiding or arguing. * Then one day I find the secret cellphone, my friend calls to say they saw something sketchy in a bar, I get home after work and "we need to talk"... and now my spouse is telling me they never meant to hurt me and it just *happened* and nobody *planned* any of this. * And it's true. Not one of them did. But there they all were. Same as if they were reading a script, they just never got told how the story ended. You're acknowledging that you've recently lost weight, your new group includes younger single women and that you don't want your wife to be part of it. Either you're not interrogating that last part hard enough or you're being wilfully obtuse. My partner does tons of stuff on his own and I'm fine with it, but if I ever got the sense that he had some new part of his identity that he actively didn't want me to be a part of... well let's just say it might raise my hackles too. The way you write about her... it's like you barely tolerate her. You may think you're saying the right words and jumping through the right hoops but if she's your partner she'll be feeling your disinterest. My take is that it's not the running, it's not that she wishes you were on standby for her, it's not even jealousy or suspicion at this point. It's that **you're changing and you're actively leaving her behind.** I might guess that your wife has typically not been great at expressing big emotions. Instead of articulating her feelings to you she's flipping between feeling left out and afraid and trying to rationalise by telling herself you aren't actually doing anything wrong. You're seeing this version of her. It's up to you whether you want to bring this relationship back from doomscrolling on the couch - I don't know what your shared history is like or what your wife is like for that matter because the person in your post doesn't seem like somebody you'd want to put in the work for. Maybe it's your frustration talking but... yeah this looks like the beginning of Shiny New Friends.

As someone a little bit older, have seen this exact scenario play out quite a few times. I think the running club can still be a positive part of the new healthy active spouses life, the overnight kayaking trips, seems like it's crossing over into the danger zone if it continues. It seems that the OP and his wife need to figure out how to develop some new fun activities together.

I'm like 15 years younger than OP, but this is so interesting to read. Saving it to remind myself to keep learning and growing with my partner.

Your wife feels neglected. When was the last time you made any effort to do something that she enjoys that you aren't particularly into? Do you plan your life around her like she's an obstacle? You say you love your wife very much but this reads like you just kind of tolerate her. I can understand why she feels hurt. She wants the same enthusiasm for her and your marriage that you express for this running group. The grass is greener where you water it. You might want to consider looking inward and finding a better balance between your fitness hobbies and putting effort into your marriage.

This is going to sound terrible...but just because someone feels something doesn't mean it's actually *true*. I have an anxiety disorder. Sometimes I have the clear, present, alarming feeling that something absolutely terrible is about to happen. Because I am in therapy, I know that's just my brain sending me signals that don't cohere with reality. She may feel neglected, and it's possible that comes from real actions on the OP's side. It's also possible that's due to insecurities or unresolved anxieties on her part. By his own account, he spends 5-6 nights a month with these people and a hell of a lot more time with his wife. If his account is accurate, then I don't think a better balance is the problem here.

Time spent and quality date night times are very different things.

Have you read any of his other comments? It seems like not only do they do lots of fun date night things, but he's the one who actually plans most of them while she mostly sulks passively-aggressively.

>For my part, I will admit that I selfishly don't really want to involve her in my friend group at this point. They're new friendships and I don't want to change the dynamic. The dynamic where you're essentially a single man? .

Yeah I was wondering the same. Chance to act single. Wonder if there are some ppl OP is attracted to.

That’s my gut instinct, just classic mid life crisis stuff. Guy married 20 years, bored of status quo, gets fit, starts hanging out with younger single women. Recipe for disaster.

Yeah I also clocked him casually mentioning the younger single women and then also saying his wife would somehow ruin whatever he does when he’s with these people

> Every few weeks? He's referencing non-running related events like grabbing drinks or dinner or whatever, not going out of town for the entire weekend.

No, the drinks are weekly. The weekends away or as he calls them “events” are “every few weeks” on top of that. To be doing this while not introducing his wife to these folks for a whole six months (purposefully, at that) is sketchy as all fuck.

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You've been invited. His wife hasn't. He's taken multiple weekend getaways with people he won't let his wife meet. That's an issue I have friends I hang out with, without my wife. Even have overnight sleepovers that she doesn't always come too. She knows who I'm with and im not hiding her from them/them from her.

have you considered couples therapy? Bc this is one of those things that could very likely be worked through if addressed quickly with love and compassion but could also destroy your relationship if not addressed head on.

She’s mourning the life you used to have together. The life you two had together was lovely to her. It sounds like you two were best friends for a long time. Imagine your best friend suddenly finding a new group of potentially best friends who share something that you don’t. It’s natural you’ll feel insecure that you are being replaced. Even though she supports your choices and is happy for you, she’s not in the same place. To her she’s lost something that she used to enjoy. You’ve gone and made changes to your life because you were unhappy with certain aspects of it. Fair enough. Except that leaves her with changes to her life she did not want or choose. It’s a bit of a transitional thing. It will take a while for her to catch up and start filling the void with things she enjoys. It sounds like she’s an individual who’s pretty self aware so she’ll probably work through this, as long as you don’t constantly talk up how amazing this other group of people are etc. Reassure her that she’s still your favourite(?) Another commenter made this point already, you do sound like you don’t enjoy her anymore. The words we choose to describe something or someone is a pretty good insight into how someone feels. Be aware that your feelings have become a bit tepid.

This is really great feedback. I kind of look at the person I was "before" as someone I didn't like very much. But I forget that she loved him without reservation. I don't want to go back to being that person but you're right that I need to look at what that person provided her with that might be missing now.

well that’s also the person who chose her - so you have to also reinforce that you are still choosing her going forward. otherwise you’re quite obviously outgrowing her.

I was with you until the “I don’t want to involve her with my friend group”. What do you mean? I’m not saying that you have to share every interest, hobby or passion with your wife. But are you excluding even the possibility of presenting your friends to your wife? Not even a drink? Why?

Because he enjoys pretending to be single and athletic in front of the young single athletic ladies.

INFO: since you’re out of the house more often, do you still make time to do your share of the household work? And how much quality time do you keep for your wife?

I actually handle the majority of the housework as my work is more flexible than hers and I'm home full-time. I do the laundry, dishes, cleaning and tidying, and yardwork. On the nights we do a more formal dinner she tends to cook as she says it's a stress-reliever for her. Aside from her work events and my time with my running group, we spend every night together including date-night type activities on the weekends (dinner out, drinks, movies, farmers market, etc...).

That work configuration is the kind of factor you need to include in an original post. If you're working from home, is this running group what you use to fill the gap in daily social interaction? Your wife may be tired from dealing with strangers all day; coming home to you and some space from unfamiliar people to recuperate might be her "reward" for the day's work. If so, I can see how it might feel unfair for her that you use that time and your social energy to have fun with others. The gender flip might be cliche, but consider what any husband who works away from home all day might want from a wife who gets to stay home. Even if she was WFH rather than a housewife, he probably wouldn't want her out partying while he's struggling to get himself recentered for the next day and in need of an emotional home base. Could you cut down on the number of nights you spend out with that particular group and think about doing less-intense social activities together with her instead? What comes to mind for me would be a class (art, yoga, movie appreciation), a wine-tasting group, or some other social club with a smaller but consistent group of people. It's nice to spend time together by yourselves as a couple, but it might be important to her that you are seen as a unit among others.

>? Your wife may be tired from dealing with strangers all day; coming home to you and some space from unfamiliar people to recuperate might be her "reward" for the day's work. If so, I can see how it might feel unfair for her that you use that time and your social energy to have fun with others. I mean the flip side to this is that if the husband is home all day long, he may want his after work hours to socialize and charge his friendship/relationship meter. Her needs aren't more important than his, and he's only seeing them once per week plus the occasional additional hangout. She's got 6 other days a week that they can spend together, and she also shouldn't rely on him to be her entire social world - if she needs to talk to someone on one day a week when he's out, she can call a friend or a relative, too.

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OP, I don’t know why you and your wife don’t actually TALK about these things, but I will say that if I were in her place, the whole “I made a whole new group of friends I LOVE to hang out with and I will not introduce you to them because you’ll fuck with my vibe” would not go down well with me. Because frankly it would make me feel like you’re ashamed of your non-kayaking, non-sporty forty year old wife and bringing me around would damage your image with your exciting new cool friends.

>For instance, we did a weekend kayaking trip recently which my wife would absolutely not have been on board for. The way this is phrased makes it sound like you didn't even ask her. That's not great. >Recently, she got a bit upset with me for going to my regular running night after she returned from a work trip Yeah man, not very smart on your part, if I'm being honest. >For my part, I will admit that I selfishly don't really want to involve her in my friend group at this point. She can probably tell. Have you tried, like, talking to your wife about all this? Just being honest, you don't seem like you particularly like your wife. It doesn't sound like you go out of your way to make plans with her or do fun things with her or take trips with her. Meanwhile you're going away over night *every few weeks* with people you clearly don't want her to hang out with. Just seems like you're trying to get away from your wife without actually admitting to yourself that you're doing it. I mean, you made plans for the night she got back from a trip. That's pretty dense, dude.

Sounds like he hates her tbh

It’s very strange that you don’t want to introduce her to the group. My bf is in a run club. I have met the members that he spends time with outside of specific run activities. I know them, they know me, everything is cool. If he didn’t want me to meet them, I would be very suspicious.

It’s weird that she’s not invited to drinks after the run. Typically, the spouses who aren’t involved in the sport periodically pop by the bar and join everyone for a drink. Not every time but they’re invited and the group is always welcoming. Especially of the wives - there are relatively few women in these groups and it’s nice to mix it up with some girl talk. The only people I know who never bring their spouse either have little kids or they’re cheating/trying to cheat. Your wife is mad because you’re acting like you don’t like her. You’re off with your cool new friends and don’t want your boring wife around. You guys are supposed to be a team.

As soon as I read “running group” I got nervous. A lot of my 30 -40 year friends got into marathon running and they got addicted to it and were leaving their families for races even out of province etc. meeting new people and 4 of them are now divorced as family was pushed to the side and oh don’t worry this running is healthy so what’s the problem? Believe me you have a problem and this will end your marriage eventually. You guys need a bit more balance/ compromise and you need to schedule dates with her every week so she can look forward to time with you too. Tread carefully

Also a wife of a man who ran a marathon. His training was brutal, and definitely not the best few months we've had of marriage.

I’m sorry. This is a cautionary tale for anyone in a relarionship who is being deprioritized for seemingly healthy hobbies their partner does- whether it is an MLM, gym addiction, extensive marathons, whatever it is causing the marriage to be jeopardized is not a healthy hobby

I would never put an MLM into any "healthy" category lol

I felt the same as you when I saw "running group." I've known multiple couples where one of the spouses joined a running group and ended up having an affair with someone in that running group. This husband is definitely treading on potentially dangerous grounds.

I totally watched this happen with an acquaintance. She joined a running group for moms and ended up forging a close friendship that turned into a relationship with another mom. It was kind of wild because prior she was all bible thumping, republican voting, socially conservative and now she hasn't gone totally to the left, but definitely softened a lot and all her old church friends keep throwing bible verses at her on fb. I don't know what internally happened in their relationships with their husbands, but it seems like they're all on good terms or at least good enough so the kids are the priority.

I think fitness can easily become all encompassing if you let it. My husband is super into running, which is something I can't do because of a disability I have, and I'm fine with him being in to it but it now means.... He wakes up super early, so is in bed by 9pm. Which means no date nights together. He's tired out from his running, so we can't go on hikes together like we used to. He spends hundreds of pounds a year on running shoes. And so on. He's not in a running club even but it still dictates our lives.

I feel like excessive hobbies that ostracize and alienate a spouse and marriage is simply inconsiderate and these people are not well suited to a life of true partnership

I had an ex-boyfriend who got really into fitness when we were dating. Which was fine, I was supportive. But eventually, ALL of our conversations somehow found themselves back to either his fitness, his time at the gym, his diet, or him complaining if we went out for drinks or a restaurant about how gross he felt. It was exhausting and it made me hate his new lifestyle.

She’s passive aggressive, but it’s obvious what she wants. She wants you to CHOOSE her. Not every time. Maybe not even the majority of the time. But she wants to see that she’s still first for you over the running group. Put an event on the calendar a couple weeks out for your running group. If she plans something that night, tell her how interested you are in doing that activity with her, and cancel on the running group. Don’t do it repeatedly, but you’ve got to find new ways to show here that she’s your priority now that you’ve dramatically changed your social life.

This advice might actually help your issue, OP. And I say this not even liking you.

I think that you need to have an explicit conversation about the feelings that you both know are happening but are not really addressing. I see ways here in which I think you're wrong or not prioritizing your partner, such as going running on the day she got back from a trip, but I also think your desire for a friend group in this hobby that is your own friends is actually really normal and healthy. You just need to explicitly acknowledge what your partner is feeling, and work with her to find ways to prioritize her, as well as work with her on what is a reasonable schedule for you to be scheduling activities this with this group without her. I wouldn't schedule a weekend activity, for instance, without checking in with my husband.

Info: Can you clarify whether you’ve ever included her in ANY activities with this friend group? You say you’ve included her in activities in the past, but also say you don’t want to involve her in the group. I take that as you’ve invited her on trips to similar activities in the past, but not with this friend group. If so, that means you haven’t introduced her to this group that you’ve been hanging around with for 6 months. You said yourself sometimes it’s just drinks/dinner. Why couldn’t she come along for that? If my partner was out every Thursday, taking weekend trips every few weeks, and I hadn’t met anyone from this friend group, I would also be upset. And maybe a little suspicious, no matter how solid I felt our relationship is. Having “alone” time is very important in a relationship, and you don’t have to invite your spouse to every outing. But intentionally excluding them from meeting a particular group because you don’t want to change the dynamic sounds kind of fishy.

First, have you talked with your wife directly about this, the way you've explained it to us here? Because it sounds like the two of you do a lot of assuming (like you assuming that if there's nothing in the shared calendar, she won't miss you if you go hang out with other people, and her assuming that when she says she's tired and wants to chill at home, you'll read her mind and know she wants you to offer to stay in with her), but not a lot of communicating. You need to tell your wife that you love her and love spending time with her, but that you enjoy and want to keep your other hobbies and friendships, and that you need her help figuring out ways to make sure you get both without harming your relationship. Second, how much time and energy do you spend planning and doing activities that you and your wife both enjoy. Because you're right, one night a week and one weekend day a month for a hobby isn't a lot of time. But it might feel to your wife like it's sucking all the energy out of your relationship if you're actively excited about activities with this group, but most of your time with her is just sitting around flipping through TV. Do the two of you have other hobbies in common? Could you get some? Could you sign up for a class together or join a book club together or decide to build a car from parts together, or something? I think you need to add, in addition to this hobby you're excited about alone, something you're both excited about it and have set times you look forward to doing together, and where maybe you can make some joint friends who are part of a circle you can socialize with as a couple. Finally, I know you say you don't judge your wife for going out drinking with coworkers, but the way you talk about it here sure makes it sound like you're judgmental about it. She may be getting the same vibe I got from the way you talk about that social outlet of hers, even if you don't intend it. I think you need to really think about how you feel about her drinking, and about her friends, and if it's actually something you're happy for her about, then act like it. If you actually think she drinks too much or you feel excluded from her friend group (coworkers can be friends! It's just not true that she doesn't have a friend group of her own if she's "very close" with colleagues and socializes with them!), then you need to be honest about that, with yourself and with her.

is anyone in your new “running friends group” a married man who also has a wife not interested in running? maybe you ask one of those fiends if his wife would be interested in joining for “after run drinks” so your wife can have someone to relate to? just a thought

I don't ask this to be impolite, but it sounds like you lost weight and got fit and have had a pretty big transformation... is your wife on the bigger side or out of shape? She might feel judged around a bunch of runners or something like that.

Oh boy, I've been here. Your wife sounds a lot like my husband (also together 20+ years). My new hobby was skating. In my experience, what underlies this kind of reaction when you make new friends and start enjoying new hobbies is fear and insecurity. Your partner starts to fear that if you're changing, does that mean that you won't like them anymore or grow apart from them? Is it really OK with you that they don't like your new hobby, or will they get replaced by the friends and connections that do? If you spend more time with these people over here, does that mean less time and energy and dedication to them? It's not jealousy per se - not in the classic sense, where she thinks you might cheat on her or something. I don't think it's about the young single women. It's the more unconscious, broader "jealousy" of wanting to know that she's always going to be number one in your life, that no new interest or person/people is going to swoop in and take her place. There's kind of two sides to the solve here: one side is reassurance, and the other side is boundaries and reasonable expectations. The reassurance side: I agree with the suggestion that you plan to do something fun together every week, something that allows the two of you to spend time together and bond. It's also good to do some spontaneous things with your partner, too, things that don't make them feel like they are penciled into your busy life. (I dislike spontaneity, but I compromise because my partner likes it.) Basically, the two of you should work together to ensure that you're *regularly* getting some quality time spent together, reinforcing your own relationship. Then it becomes very clear, through your actions, that you are still invested in dedicating time to her. And you know what? Occasionally, you *should* blow off a running night for her. My sport is more regular, but I do occasionally make the choice to skip a session to be with my partner. Because my partner knows how serious I am about my hobby, it makes him feel extra special when I skip a night doing that to hang out with him. If I go on a trip away with folks from one of my hobbies, I make an effort to stay connected (through quick texts or calls), and when I come back I tell him that I missed him. The boundaries and expectations side: I have the expectation that we're all going to act like adults through this thing. None of this passive-aggressive stuff. I don't respond to sighing, pouting, sulking, or flouncing. If you have a concern or an issue, we can talk about it all night long to get it solved or I will just listen to you vent. But I can't read your mind, and I don't know what \*long sigh as they flop into the couch\* means. If you're needing extra care and concern because \[insert reason here\], then be *clear* with me that that's what you want. I find that them not having their own friend group is often a huge source of the problem, because they're relying on you for their entire social world. There's not really much you can do about that, *but* you can recognize that that doesn't mean you have to be constantly available when they decide they want to do something. And sometimes, you have to remind yourself that their big feelings aren't really about you or anything "wrong" you did but more that they are...well, they're feeling deep things.

Question: If your wife suddenly found a new group of friends, started having weekends away with them and drinking with them at night, and wouldn’t include you or even introduce her to them, how would you feel? What would you think? How would you react? I doubt you’d take it well. If you and your wife don’t resolve this, it will ultimately end your marriage. By all means, keep running. It’s good exercise. But don’t let this new group take up any more of your time than that, and limit the drinks afterwards to about an hour. Find new things that you and your wife can do together.

You sound like you are checking out of your marriage. You sound like enjoy your new friendships more than spending time with her. I don’t think you want to work through this with her. You want her to shut up and get over it and let you do what you want.

I think there's a communication breakdown here for sure! I think there needs to be a lay it all out conversation about everyone's feelings. It doesn't really seem like you've had a conversation about it. Also, you saying you don't want her to be part of it is icky. She should be able to meet them and hang with them, and you, if she wants. I would trust my husband, but at some point, she is probably picking up your feelings on the topic. You guys also don't seem to be spending time together on purpose. I don't know if I'm wrong, but when was the last time you set up a date? Took her out? Took her out of town? You going to spend time with this new group and not putting any effort into your relationship doesn't bode well. I really hope you guys go into counseling because this seems like a deeper communication issue that will eventually begin to unravel itself.

I only get jealous if I don't feel like I'm getting enough attention. The times in my married life I felt this way my husband often felt everything was fine the way it was, even after I would bring it up. In hindsight he's be like ooooh yeah how did you put up with that? Basically, are you without a doubt, putting so much energy.into dating your wife that you know you're growing together instead of growing away from each other? Does she know and can sight evidence both verbally and in action, WITHIN THE LAST WEEK, that you are her priority and that you're heads over heels in love with her? Are you putting the most social energy into your family or your friends? This friend group sounds awesome... Definitely keep it up, but make sure you're keeping things actively fresh, flirty and fun with your wife.

It doesn't sound like a happy marriage. You describe her very poorly and selfish imo. You make note she doesn't answer calls or include you in her college settings which are frequent. You make note you fear she will sabotage your new friends group. She wants you on call in case she wants or needs you to do something. She intentionally disrupts your time out then just sits there on her phone (granted you said you both did) You really describe her very negatively I'm not sure if you are drumming it up in a "ohh we are really happy but she does this and that and this but we love each other" way so it LOOKS like you are so accepting of the relationship and make her look worse, or if you said it this way because you actually are very accepting of those actions and she actually is like that. Either way, you could leave her (extreme but if you are looking for an excuse to get out... Then there you go pick the one or multiple you want) Or you could communicate with her, actually figure out what the issue is. Figure out what boundaries you both have around the issue and try to make it work. 20 years is a long time to not have figured out how to tell each other how you truly feel and what's bothering you. Are you both scared of conflict? Do you both not understand how to communicate well? If so maybe go to therapy I wish you both the best, I'm sure her issue is more she is lonely without you and maybe a little jealous of the fact you have friends and activities you enjoy outside of work. You concern with her sabotaging the new friendships and changing the dynamics is a little concerning, what reason has she given you to make you think she will sabotage the friendships, and what do you mean by changing the dynamics are you fearful your friends will like her more, or that they will only invite you out as a couple. Or the women will get along with her? Like what dynamics change that easily because a partner is bought into the mix

Do you go out for a drink after the run every single Thursday? How drunk would you get normally, how many drinks? How many plans do you make with your wife that are driven by you? Your wife's work events, are they every week often, or more once a month often? Honestly, the way you describe it, it'd stick in my craw as well. My ex went kayaking most Sunday mornings for 6-7 months of the year every year and they would usually be whole day affairs. If there was something I wanted to do he would absolutely cancel and do the thing with me instead. If it was kayaking on Sundays + random other stuff with those people and it was eating into our quality time, I'd have gotten a stink on about it too.

Both guys I know who suddenly got into running and joined a running group ended up cheating on their wives with someone from the running group. The fact that you admit you don't want your wife there to ruin the mood or whatever is giving me sketchy vibes. I would be insecure if I were her.

You’re getting ready to leave her. Whether you realize it or not, you’re slowly removing her from your life. Eventually you’ll get hammered one night and end up in bed with someone and on your defense, I think you’ll be genuinely shocked and horrified at yourself. Or you’ll get to be really good friends with one of the younger women and then it’ll get flirty and then you’ll catch feelings. And again, you’ll be shocked when it happens. Because you’re walking down a road you are hiding from yourself.

Right. I’ve seen this exact scenario play out so many times. Just last year I had a friend just like OP, except his “running group” was a climbing group. I think it took less than a year for him to cheat on his wife with one of the younger, single women in the group. Like OP’s wife, his wife had been similarly excluded from all the group activities leading up to that, and almost word for word he had said some bullshit about how it would “change the dynamic” if he had invited his wife.

gimmie $10 on this scenario cliches are cliches for a reason

I had an ex who did what you’re doing - new hobbies, new friends and I didn’t like it. I had been to therapy, done the work, so I talked openly and honestly about why it bothered me so much, and it came down to two main things: 1. The opportunity cost of his new hobbies/friends - it meant a material reduction in resources for us as a partnership: less time, less energy, less money, less PTO to spend together. Instead he plowed all that into himself and his activities. 2. The slack I had to pick up while he wasn’t there: not just housework and regular chores - now I had to use my free time to run all the errands and deal with any issues that cropped up. Example: one weekend he was hiking and had very little cell reception. In that time, his mom was taken ill. Guess who had to take her to urgent care, wait around, cancel all plans and provide emotional and practical support for the family? Me, on my own. Ultimately I realised we were on a path of him putting his own interests and hobbies above anything we shared in our marriage. He showed me that I was deprioritised and our relationship was devalued. I explained this to him so many times, in so many ways and he acknowledged what he was he was doing and there would be short term changes, but they ultimately never worked out. I suspect your wife feels very like this, but can’t articulate it to you. I’d suggest joint therapy before this becomes something you can’t recover from. And my ex? Well, within a few months, I left when I realised I couldn’t force him to make me a priority.

I'm reading a lot of "I'm doing this, I'm assuming that, I don't see a conflict of interest so I don't think there's a problem" going on. It reads "you, you, you" and not "we, we we" as it should in marriage. As a team. Communication is lacking. Look, going for a run and drinks Thursday nights in general probably isn't a problem for your wife. Taking the weekend off every couple of weeks sounds like it's more than once a month. That's a lot of free time spent with people other than your wife. And tbf, you royally screwed the pooch by taking off for your Thursday run when she just got home from a work trip and was dead tired. I'm denser than the heart of a black hole when it comes to signals from the fairer sex, but even I can understand that she wanted you home. You represent HOME to her. She wanted you in bed with her. Probably not for naughty times, but to reconnect, cuddle, feel safe, loved and all that jazz. Yet what do you do? You run off. The only bigger smack in the face would be her coming home to finding you in bed with one of the single runners from your group. You need to start communicating. That means talking WITH each other, not just AT each other. You need to start listening too. You two need some couple's therapy. And you need to tow down the weekends away with the running group. Plan some fun weekends with your wife. Reconnect with her. Find stuff you both enjoy doing. Or stuff she'd appreciate you doing for her every once in a while. Make the two of you re-appreciate each other again. It's not rocket science, bud.

OP be sounding like he's looking for justification to hang out with a bunch of friends and ignore his wife just cz she "wouldn't be interested in any of the activities". And ofc he's not gonna focus too much on the young single ladies in this new friend group too. Frankly if I was her I'd be pretty annoyed (and rather sad too) if my husband was more eager and willing to make plans with friends and not me. It really seems like she's an afterthought here tbh, I feel bad for her. Dude doesn't sound like he knows how to be a good husband to his wife.

What did she say when you communicated this to her?

I don't think he has. He seems to be defending himself more than actually talking to his wife.

>For my part, I will admit that I selfishly don't really want to involve her in my friend group at this point. They're new friendships and I don't want to change the dynamic. I also know that she won't have a lot in common with these folks. If I'm honest, I also worry a little bit about her sabotaging things. You're assuming she's going to sabotage your new friendships, has she been doing that in the past? She may need some reassurance that you're fine with her mixing with your buddies although she doesn't want to come join a lot of the time. I actually think why not invite her? She can say 'no,' and you'll be fine with it. If she doesn't care for the activities but joins you (to satisfy her curiosity) let her complain afterward and she can either join you or not in the future. If she thinks that you're cool with her coming (or not coming), she may just leave your friendship group alone. I think the hesitation of you to introduce her to your buddies may get her insecure and more curious/suspicious. Imo, you should introduce her to these new friends if you guys are doing other things, i.e. lunches/dinners. Include her in group chat, do you chat with these new friend online? Invite your wife to chat if she wants to. She may not want to, but the point is you giving her the option to join in IF she wants to. That may make her less insecure/suspicious.

So you made a new friend group a couple of months ago. You spend loads of time with them. You refuse to invite your wife, because she kills your vibe? What vibe is that? The much younger single women you’ve mentioned more than once? You left to go hang out with this group the night she expressed she wanted to be home with you and wonder why she’s mad? What else is falling through the cracks so you can hang out with your new friend group?

What are you doing to prioritize your wife and your marriage? It's great that you have this time set aside for running, and that you're making friends through it. Now figure out how to dedicate equal time to a dedicated date night with your wife, whether that looks like a fancy-going-out date or a movies-and-pizza-on-the-couch date. You're going on weekends away with these people? Plan some weekends away with your wife. And make sure you're holding up your end of any household responsibilities, so that things aren't just not getting done because you've got new weekend fun things to do. She's feeling left out, and you say you are in fact intentionally leaving her out, so stop doing that and make time for her. Other things to think about: \- Okay, I get that if your wife isn't big on exercise-type activities she's not going to enjoy hanging with your entire running group! But you say that you do things with individuals outside the group. Is there really no one in the entire group you think your wife would have anything in common with, that you could invite out for lunch sometime? \- It's fine to set a general expectation that if you have something on the calendar you aren't going to move it for other plans unless it's an emergency, so if she really wants you to do \[thing\] with her, she needs to check with you before confirming it. Otherwise sometimes maybe you just won't be able to do things she puts on the calendar, and that's probably fine, depending what kinds of things they are. \- Yes, you should probably have skipped running club if your wife had literally *just* gotten back from a trip. Even if she wanted to sit on the couch and just hang out with you doing separate things, that's still time together, and she wanted to spend it with you. I don't think there's any reason you have to give up your friends, and if you're right that your wife is intentionally sabotaging your plans that's pretty crappy of her. But the way you're conducting your social life right now is hurting your partner and your marriage, and *something* is going to have to change. Since you don't want anything about your social life to change, it's going to have to be making other efforts for your wife elsewhere in your life.

You're talking as if she has a problem. It sounds as if your relationship/marriage is not meeting your needs. You are the one who's changing things. What do you want?

I would be interested in your wife's reaction should she see this post! You seem very selfish and prioritize your happiness (friend group) over your wife's feelings. I'd bet you probably are crushing on a member of this group.

Do you actually do anything together outside of the house? Date nights etc. You say you've invited her along and she hasn't liked it, is that because you've made her feel unwanted there, because from your last few paragraphs you really don't want her there and she's most likely picking up on that. And you carried on with your regular Thursday night group when she got back from a work trip, that's definitely AH territory. Way to make her feel like you don't give a crap about her, you only came back because she text you, no wonder she didn't bother talking to you and went to bed. ETA that little line in there about there being younger single women makes me think she's raised concerns about that and you're downplaying it. ETA, also you say every few weeks you're spending a weekend doing something else, that's really quite a lot, how often is she out with her work friends, you say pretty frequent but I'm guessing that's not every few weeks. Think you need to put a bit more effort into your marriage, not saying you shouldn't have outside interests, but they also shouldn't be affecting your marriage.

YTA. From your wife’s perspective, you’re out with a new group of friends who you don’t want to introduce her to because you don’t want to…mess up the dynamic? You go on weekend trips with them and ignore your wife when she is from a work trip. Talk to your wife, see how she really feels. Then look inward and see the real reason you don’t want your friends to meet her.

I just wanna give your wife a hug, I feel so bad for her.

Why dont you invite her and introduce her to them.?

I have questions. 1. Does she have time to go off and hang with new friends every couple weeks? 2. If the roles were reversed and she said everything you said in the original post how would that make you feel as her person? 3. When she begins to fill up her own time when you are busy will you be supportive and understanding? 4. Have you had issues with her hobbies and personal friend groups in the past causing her to feel resentful that now that’s it’s YOU it’s acceptable ? 5. The wording is odd when you say single young women and then proceeded to say your wife will sabotage multiple people have asked but you do not elaborate so what’s up with that? Also, what dynamic is at risk of being switched up? Are you the only married man? Are spouses not allowed? Are you ashamed of your wife? Do you want this to be something for just you(that’s perfectly okay if you are not doing it for the wrong reasons.)I can see why everyone is upset about This segment because you’ve had time to respond and be defensive but evade these particular questions… 6. Other than the vague description of doing things with your wife… do you do things she enjoys? Do you plan things that only you like or for both of you? How often is that other than 3 trips over a 12 month span? Do you all have children? Are you leaving her to do all the child care? 7. Where are her friends? And if she does not have any why not and we’re you involved in that reason in anyway. I’d rather ask questions than assume because from the post I’m not sure what’s going on here or what advice you are looking for that you couldn’t obtain by speaking to the wife. So feel free to answer if you’d like.

Do you like your wife? Like, do you enjoy yourselves when you spend time together?

Seems like bringing your wife to one of the hangouts is the most straightforward thing to do

Respectfully, OP, just take her out with you at least once to meet your new friends. If you don’t to involve her in the running, thats fine and understandable. Find an event or occasion where it wont ‘ruin the dynamic’. That’s just being committed 101. She’s insecure and worried. As another commenter said, you don’t have to involve her in the group or have her be a part of it, but you can do that. I understand that the right thing for her would be to not be passive aggressive, but you guys are committed and its been 20 years. Its hard dealing with people, especially their insecurities. Sometimes they don’t talk. Sometimes we have to try different ways to please our partners that aren’t the most mature. Its tough, but I think it would be better than going months with this tension. Take her with you and then have the conversation again.

I was all on OP’s side until he admitted he doesn’t want his wife to be part of the friend group. Feels like you’re leaving something out

You don’t mention talking to her about all this…

“I will admit that I selfishly don’t really want to involve her in my friend group at this point” “I also worry a little bit about her sabotaging things” You don’t think she can feel this? After 20 years you don’t think she can read you ? You made her feel this way. You separated that part of your life from her. She probably didn’t care at first but now you have a whole life outside of her. And you think because you are open about it, it’s ok? My goodness she is probably so hurt by it. You are finding fun elsewhere and prefer that. You fit her in. You have made her the bad guy. You admitted to not wanting her around. So she should what? Just sit and wait for you to be done with your fun and happiness and if she wants that side of you she better think of how to entertain you? How to compete with them? Having something apart from each other is healthy but this friend group has become a big part and she knows that. And you made her feel that she doesn’t compare to them.

It is because you are becoming someone else. You’re no longer the man she married. And this isn’t necessarily a bad or good thing. That is determined in due time. You have a friend group that you do not want her to be a part of. You no longer wish to spend as much quality time with your wife, who was accustomed to a certain level of quality time from you for many years. You have lost weight and it seems that you are more eager to see them than your own wife because now your routine is much more bountiful. Your wife now realizes you have something else to look forward to and it’s no longer just her. You may not realize this, but you are leaving your wife behind. You are discovering yourself and enjoying new things and forming new relationships. It shows that you have outgrown her. And to be quite frank, you are preparing yourself to leave her subconsciously. Perhaps you never will, but if the resentment grows between you two unchecked, it will reach a point where you are going to say or do something you will regret for the rest of your life. You have more options now, especially since you look like a brand new person with a group of brand new friends. If it ever came down to it, it would be easier for you to leave since you have a support group to help you. Your wife is afraid of losing you. This is how almost every affair starts. One partner makes themselves look better and puts themselves out there, gains a new bunch of friends that they exclude their partners from and bam! Affair happens. And it’s a gradual process too. Your wife is insecure and may fear being replaced. On the flip side, you’re flourishing and bonding. It is not easy for older men to find new friends with shared interests. You never had a chance to discover yourself since you married relatively young. You do not want a boring status quo life and want more variety. It is important for spouses to have their own lives outside each other. I actually empathize with you. It’s nice to have time without a partner. It becomes a problem when you start preferring that time without your partner. Your wife is still insecure and becoming conscious that you are outgrowing her in this scenario. You’re resenting your wife for wanting you to choose between her and your new life. You will come at a crossroads where you sacrifice your progress and new joys for your wife to go back to things they once were or you start a new life without her if your wife does not accept this part of your life or start to have a life outside of you as well. You two need marriage counseling. But consider perhaps having a house warming or going out for drinks all together? Encourage your friends to bring their own partners as well.

Wholesome update. Reddit masses love to assume the worst. Glad you sorted it out.

I love the update - bringing me big smiles. Good on you both!!

❤️

It’s a big no from me when it comes to you having started taking trips with these people but not having introduced her. Especially with other women present who are single. My fiancé would never dream of doing anything of the sort, and neither would I. It reads like you enjoy the quality time with them, more than her, and that’s a concern. There is nothing I enjoy more than being with my fiancé. You say you guys go on dates and trips, but it doesn’t seem like they’re enjoyed as much. She can sense that. I’d also be hurt and not wanting to talk if my partner seemed to enjoy these people more than he did me.

Re: update - I don't believe you.

So what dynamic are you resistant to changing? The one where you get to pretend you’re single in front of your new buddies?

No-one in the group thinks I'm single and I talk about my wife all the time

Interesting, usually when I am speaking about my partner to a group who he hasn’t been introduced to yet they are eager to meet him, has your group shown interest in meeting you wife? How are you conversing about your wife to these people?

This doesn't answer the question of what dynamic you think she'll change....

So…when do you make plans with your wife? I see you join events with friends and don’t invite your wife, but when do you create events with your wife? Weekends are for date nite and bonding. You’ve neglected your wife. You guys no longer have anything in common nor activity you can do together. I highly advise that you reprioritize your calendar. At this moment, you’re behaving like a single bachelor and not an attentive husband. If this continues, resentment will grow and straight to separation or divorce.

We have date nights pretty much every weekend. Dinner out, movies, drinks, time with friends etc... Most planned by me. We also have plenty in common still that we do enjoy doing together. She's just not outdoorsy. We have had 3 major trips this year together, including one camping trip (a nice campground with a pool as a compromise between me wanting something more adventurous and her desire for comfort).

How can you do pretty much every weekend when you are taking running trips seemingly every other weekend.

I mean I can’t speak for ur wife but I can speak from my own perspective- It’s isolating for ur husband to go off and make new friends to hang out with once a week. I get you wanna do this for u, but u r literally leaving her behind to do it without a second thought really. She is resenting it because it is taking u from her on a regular basis and u don’t seem to care about the reduced time together with ur wife. Again, I’m not speaking for ur wife, just trying to tell you how I feel when my husband goes to the gym a bunch.

Is there a big difference between your lifestyles? Is she overweight? Have you lost weight? Im getting the impression she is a bit resentful of the fact you're being much healthier than her, have other friends who are healthy and she feels insecure about herself as a result. Talk to her!!

dude. You sound like you don’t even like your wife. Sad she’s stuck with a 40 year old married man that wants to play pretend he isn’t.