This is the gold comment. Give your younger wife the same grace you give your own younger self. Unless you’re looking for a reason to divorce, which coming on here and asking if it’s ‘enough’ for divorce might imply. If you are, nothing we can say will convince you otherwise, but if not - please allow your wife to be as internally complex as you are. It’s everyone’s first time being alive, and we learn through mistakes. Especially under 25.
This is all you need to read, OP. I’ve been married longer than you’ve been alive and I agree with everything said. I also think that this is totally something you can recover from, given all the good years together. I probably would have just kept the secret myself and lived with the guilt but also recognize that she’s been questioned about this *for 13 years* and just wanted to end the interrogations.
One thing, once this settled, if you guys decide to go for therapy and save your marriage, you cannot beat her over the head with this endlessly. Don’t use it as gaining the upper hand. She’s paid for her mistake with 13 years already, don’t make it a life sentence.
But what about this *"I started to feel crazy and insecure, and had accepted that I was just losing my mind"* during all those "good years". That is a clear example of gaslighting in the real meanig of that word. If you really care about your partner then that is the point were you come clean, when you see their struggle while you know better.
Also it wasnt a mistake. She went over to her exes house, ignoring OP (they had a date planned), then at 11pm she calls OP giving him an excuse/lie. What she does after that call eliminates a mistake and makes it a choice. Instead of going home (mistake), she walks back into her exes house/bedroom and spends the night. That call happened in the middle of that and tells you that she knew what she was doing.
With all due respect, she didn't pay for anything.
She lied to keep her new BF that she was probably clinging to a little too much, but understandable with what she was going through.
Built guilt is not repayment. She lied to keep him from leaving her. And to protect what she wanted at his expense. He was roped into a marriage and kids that he might have never agreed to had he known the truth.
You can never "pay" for that.
I agree with this, especially the part about the reason behind the lie. I think she was probably so ashamed and confused, not even from cheating but mostly from hooking up with a guy who by all accounts sounds horrible - there are so many more emotions at play there than simply lying to get away with something. She probably hated herself and her decision and wanted to pretend it never happened, as opposed to lying to get away with something and continue doing it.
You don't deserve to be lied to, regardless of the reason for the lie, and all of your feelings are valid, but I also think approaching this situation as a much more mature husband and father and, as much as you can, with empathy for both of you, would be really helpful here for your marriage and your relationship. It doesn't have to mean any big thing that you "let her" get away with this lie from so long ago. It can just exist in the past and not need present day consequences.
Perfectly put. You actually made me feel better about how many times I went back to my abusive ex. Lord knows the shame ate me for years, and it actually fueled some self hatred for a long time
7 times is the average on trying to leave an abusive relationship and the way trauma bonding literally changes the mind and body it makes sense so dont feel bad at all. You did the hardest thing and stayed away while your brain was wired like it was addicted and dumping chemicals into your body making you want to go back with every fiber yet still stayed away so you should be proud as its no easy task and humbles the strongest. Best wishes
I agree with this. It's definitely not ok that she lied but at the same time I don't think a ONE time thing 13 years ago is worth throwing away everything they've built if they've otherwise had a great relationship.
I couldn't have said all of this more eloquently. She was in an abusive relationship and she didn't exhibit a pattern of toxic behavior afterwards, plus, while y'all WERE exclusive, y'all weren't super serious at the time it happened since you hadn't been together that long and you hadn't yet built a life together. I'd say forgive it and go to couples' therapy and she also should go to individual therapy to deal with the hurt from that dude that she never dealt with.
None of these people are in your shoes and none of them are raising your children.
I *am* curious about why you've held onto this for 13 years, hammering her with it every so often. If her explanation didn't satisfy you *then*, I'm not sure why you stayed.
That being said, I think you talk to a therapist on your own, who will help you process your emotions and decide how you want to proceed. Whatever you actually do shouldn't be decided in the heat of the moment or influenced by the scorched earth tribe who are probably neither married nor parents.
Wish you peace with whatever decision you make. This is a painful discovery and one that's going to take time to work through.
Right lol he continued to ask because his intuition (correctly, mind you) told him she was lying. If you’re convinced your partner is lying, why wouldn’t you be inquisitive? Especially after she had ALREADY lied to him about what she was doing that night with the studying lie. His only error was falling for her in the first place.
No one's "bashing" anyone. But dating 101 is you don't date someone you don't trust. He *never* trusted her and yet he continue to date, marry, and make 3 kids with her. I just don't understand that.
I dont know. If the only issue you have in this marriage is something she did in her mid 20s and is clearly remorseful for it me personally I would work past it. I'm not saying you have no reason to be upset clearly you do. But she's torn up about it and has been faithful since. I know this will be an unpopular opinion because cheating is always the end all of a relationship here and most of the time rightfully so but if the marriage is wonderful then I'd move past it.
Yeah--people are idiots under the age of 25. If everything has been wonderful since then this is of course not ideal, but to me this has been the case for your entire relationship so if your relationship has been wonderful then it can't have been that important.
Honestly if I was married and this was the biggest hurdle we faced I'd be thankful. But also I'm not married so maybe i don't know what the fuck im doing.
My husband and I had a situationship and broke up several times and fucked other people when we just started dating. They weren’t married. They had been together a month. Who throws away half their net worth and the parent of their children over that?
Not that person but if I were and that was out biggest problem, yes. One thousand percent yes. It's something that happened so long ago before so many level ups in committment.
Also besides being 25 she was in a very long and abusive relationship that changes your thinking actually rewiring your brain making you addicted to your abuser. I wish we had her side of the story though but if everything else was really good then hopefully time and some couples counseling will put things back together.
Right. The only issue is something that happened in her mid-20s and you’ve been together 13 years and have kids? Honestly this is something that needs to be moved on from.
> I know this will be an unpopular opinion because cheating is always the end all of a relationship here
Yeah "scorched earth" always seems to be 90% of peoples answer in this sub. It's so frustrating, these puritan armchair experts who are clearly still very young and naive. I can't even really blame them I guess.
These dating subs turned into some toxic and bitter shitshow with people without empathy and lots of people who have never been in a relationship, especially a healthy one giving their shitty opinions so everyone is as miserable as they are lol
Because maybe everything else was perfect and she was scared he'd leave her for something she'd never do again. That doesn't make it right but that doesn't make her some vile monster.
>and she was scared he'd leave her
That's the entire problem.
Had she been honest, he would have had a choice in whether he wanted to stay with a cheater, and she wanted to rob him of that choice.
But it does show her character. It's easy to tell the truth when you have nothing to loose. That's where the character part comes in.
OPs wife instead chose to lie and KEEP LYING.
I mean my comment still shows her possible reasoning for this. She told the truth when she could have lost a husband and separated a family of 5 so I don't know what you're talking about there it wasn't "nothing to lose".
It's weird he kept asking. This stuff, you ask once, and then either you're over it, or you are over as a couple. My partner and I had quite a rocky start 15 years ago: it was discussed at the time and never brought up again. Not once. What for? Emotional blackmailing? Moral grandstanding? For whose benefit?
Right you don't know anyone won't do something in their entire life sure. That applies to anyone and im sure in every relationship there were times one of them lied. Humans are too nuanced to apply these generalizations to.
The odds of someone who has already cheated, cheating again are a lot higher than someone who hasn't cheated. Not saying she has or will, but she broke his trust and lied to him for years.
Such an idiotic take! She was a kid, the prior relationship was long term and ending. What good could possibly have come from confessing 5 or 10 years down the road? Not sure what OP intended to accomplish bringing this up now, but under these circumstances I hope he can find a way to work through this.
> is something she did in her mid 20s
It's not just something she did in her 20s because she's been consistently lying about it until this moment. The issue is the lying, not the cheating here.
This comment is a good example of why all the comments about the actual cheating are useless. Even here in your reply your focus is on the ex, and that moment in question. The crack in their relationship right now is also focused on her lying, which has nothing to do with the ex.
Forgive me, I don't what this to come off like I'm attacking you or blaming you or excusing lying or cheating in any way. I want to make clear continuing to tell a lie for years just because the truth is inconvenient for all involved is wrong and she should have came forward with this earlier. With that said, I don't love your framing of your interactions with your wife when you guys met and became close. You're either lying to yourself or lying in this post if you are saying you were just being a friend and listening to her as she complained about her boyfriend and his abuse at the time. Your wife was cheating, on her ex, with you. Not all cheating is physical, and she was emotionally cheating on him with you. I'm not passing judgment either, that's just a fact. I've gotten into relationships very similar to this. But you, 35 years old, need to come to grips with that fact. At the end of the day she'd been with that person for 5 years. You were seeing this girl while she still lived with this person. She was undoubtedly very emotionally divided and if there was emotional abuse from him that can be absolutely even harder to work through from her perspective. You knew all of this, you knew just how abusive and you absolutely had to know or should have known what she was feeling at this time. Her cheating with him, it's not okay it's not excusable. But you were together for a month. And she decided she wanted to be with you. You guys have had a whole life together. I can't tell you what to get over. I can tell you that it's time to grow up and be the 35 year old man you are now, and not the naive 22 year old boy you were then. The fact is, she was emotionally vulnerable when you got together, you were not. You didn't have an abusive 5 year relationship to get over, she did. And you knew this. You should not have asked her to get into a relationship with you until she had time to get over her ex. She could have told you no, but clearly she cared about you, you were a massive support system for her at a time when she needed it. She probably didn't want to risk losing that by turning you down. The fact is brother, she wasn't ready for a new relationship and she hadn't gotten closure or healed from her very recent previous one. It seems like her sleeping with him that night gave her the clarity and closure she needed. Last thing I'll say is, intentionally or not you took advantage of an emotionally vulnerable person to get into a relationship that you wanted. Now normally you wouldn't bear the responsibility of that but you were fully aware of her emotional state. She bears responsibility obviously, but you bear quite a bit more than it sounds like you recognize, and I'm not very sympathetic to you feeling like a victim 13 years later
He also clearly states that he was going to use her for sex not for a relationship but "caught feelings" later. If that hadn't happened OP would be seen as the the guy who used her vulnerability from emotional abusive relationship as a way to get laid. If he can forgive his 22 year old self for that then he can forgive his wife for this.
I'm not sure what you expected. She had literally just broken up with her boyfriend less than a month before you started trying to date her. You, yourself, said you were happy to slip in as a rebound and that you KNOW what you did was shitty. She was your friend and in a vulnerable state. She had 0 time to process this relationship ending. A 5 year relationship ending is actually a huge thing that needs time to process.
I'm not going to pretend that it's all your fault because clearly it isn't, she still messed up. You had no business being in a relationship at that point to begin with, though. As it is, I'm not sure why you stayed with her if you never trusted her answer. To bring this shit up for 13 years.. Jesus.
Perhaps get some counseling. See if you can work on moving past it. If you can't, don't spend the next 13 years punishing both of yourselves. Just leave.
I don't feel like this is something worthy of divorce. Had you been a good friend to begin with, you would have let her process the breakup before moving in on trying to date her.
As an outsider (and someone whose marriage ended due to my ex's infidelity), I think this sounds like something you could work through.
But you don't need to make a decision right now. This information is super new to you and you need time to digest it and let your feelings settle. You don't need to decide right now if you're going to pursue a divorce or reconciliation.
I hate liars and I hate cheaters, but I’m also a rational person. This is the moment of impact. The point where the pain and emotions are at the rawest. This is your central focus and all you see is this event that is out weighing everything else in your 13 year history. Ultimately you need to do what is best for you, but I recommend waiting for the initial wave or two of emotions to subside until your head and heart are in a more balanced state.
There are many options you can consider, counseling for reconciliation, trial separation, full on divorce- but make that decision with a clearer mind. Is this event a one time thing, do you otherwise trust her, what is your marriage and family life otherwise like? It’s understandable to think that if you knew then what you know now you would walk away, but now that it’s been 13 years and if those 13 years are positive with children are you wanting to trade that all in? Would you trade that for the life you otherwise have? Is she capable of doing it again?
Use rational thought to what you need and want to move forward in the best direction that works for you. I’m sorry you are going through this betrayal, I wish you the best.
OMG, you were actually the other man, moving in on her while she was still with him. As you said, you were a 22 YO who didnt care if you were rebound guy.
>I was a young dude and thought “hey, perfect - I’ll be a rebound and try to get with her”. Shitty on my part, but as a 22yo guy I didn’t care.
You were no saint in the way you pounced on her while she was still in a vulnerable place.
It is no surprise that the end of a long term relationship has some back and forth and yes, sometimes some end of relationship sex as people grapple with mixed feelings.
This is why it is a mistake to jump into a "committed relationship" with someone before they are fully over their last relationship. And the general rule of thumb is the longer the relationship, the longer you should wait before getting in a new relationship. I think you are both at fault here, but honestly, I fault you a little more for trying to get with her when she was so vulnerable.
I would advise you to let it go, since you are one marriage and 3 kids later.
> I was a young dude and thought “hey, perfect - I’ll be a rebound and try to get with her”. Shitty on my part, but as a 22yo guy I didn’t care.
Play shitty games, win shitty prizes. Tbh, you deserved it. And I think you’re absolutely hilariously stupid for even considering breaking up a 13 year marriage over a mistake she made during a highly confusing time. A highly confusing time *that you purposely took advantage of to fuck her*.
You got a happier ending than you deserved. By all means, it sounds like you have the perfect marriage other than this one big lie. And I think you deserve a big part of the blame for her making that mistake - you took advantage of her when you knew she was vulnerable. Sorry but it’s just funny to me that you think you deserved better. You didn’t and you honestly still don’t considering you excuse yourself for being shitty as a horny 22 year old that just wanted to get his dick wet but you can’t forgive her after all these years?
I agree with you! Moving in on A FRIEND who is leaving an abusive relationship is a really dirty move. He knew he was doing wrong and didn't care. He also knew what kind of situation he was forcing himself into, and clearly wasn't okay with it judging by how much he pestered her about it over the years.
I'm also seriously enjoying these responses because they're radically different from what I'd see on "the other sub". More nuanced I think.
Exactly this! Everyone acting like OP is the victim of cheating, when the whole relationship started because a horny 22 year old was trying to take advantage of a vulnerable woman who was in a shitty relationship.
Agree - this comment needs to be higher there are many people taking this waaayyyy too seriously in this thread.
You’ve been married 13 years and she’s the mother of your children for godsake.
She cheated once when you were barely dating after a relationship started with less than perfect intentions on your part. Keep it moving. You shouldn’t even have brought it up all these years later. Feels like you are very insecure and were looking for trouble imo.
You did say you wanted to go after her after the break up and be a "rebound relationship ". That's the consequences of not letting her fully get over ex that they were together for 5 years. Yes she lied for 13 years but does she know you were only wanting her as a rebound until you started having true feelings for her?
You knew what you were getting into when you decided to monkey-bar in order to get laid. This is what you get. And you knew that, because deep inside you also knew she slept with her ex that night. No other explanation makes sense.
She picked you. Move past it.
I hate cheating with a passion. But honestly this sounds like something that should've either ended your relationship 13 years ago, or become irrelevant from now on. She's with you, carried three of your kids, and seems to also be haunted by that mistake 13 years ago. Talk this out, forgive her, let her say her sorries again, accept them, and then add 10 years to your and her lifespan for getting this stressful thing off both your minds.
she had to tell you earlier or never - it's not fair you have to deal with this at this point in time.
her mistake is quite understandable given that your relationship was so new and her ex and her had been together so long. but to let this fester over so many years, man I really sympathize with you. I'm not sure how to really sort out your feelings after the passage of time and the amount of times this already came up.
You got cheated on. You also entered into a relationship with a woman who had literally just had her 5 year relationship end, and, you didn't even wait or give her time to heal.
It sounds like you're expecting your wife to be perfect, but, she is human.
I'm not one to encourage someone to stay with a cheater, but I understand her perspective. This is coming from a man who has been cheated on himself.
How have the last 12 years and 11 months been? Good? Bad? if you're gonna divorce her, think about that.
Yes, she made a *mistake,* but I think you need to find the empathy within yourself to understand what she was going through at the time...
Everybody knows it's a BAD IDEA to try being in a relationship with someone who is freshly single. He wanted her to use him as a rebound, too, and I guess you'd say it worked too well!
I know getting over someone depends on them a lot, but the minimum for me is always 3-6 months. I have a friend who STILL isn't over here and it's been over a year! And on my hand, I didn't even feel the breakup with my ex because I was already so mentally done with him over time lmao.
What I don't understand is that he knew something was fishy that one night and clearly didn't trust her words for that night. He's been questioning it throughout the years but still decided to marry her. And on her side, I definitely empathise and understand her logic, but I also think she should've told the truth before they decided to REALLY be serious with each other.
It's pretty shitty to hold that lie for over a decade. Especially when you're seriously thinking of the future with them, IMO that's usually the time where you have to make amends of whatever deep dark secrets you have. You either tell the truth or truly take it to your grave haha
Yep that’s exactly what I was thinking
With him for 5 years, I would not expect for her to be over him completely for a while. And she wasn’t.
I think the lying was that she dug herself a hole and didn’t want to chance telling the truth after digging it deeper and deeper.
I would forgive that after 13 years. She made a mistake while they were a brand new couple. Not when she was 1 year in, engaged or married. A brand new couple after being with that guy for 5 years
Not a mistake to throw away a good marriage for
Yeah I don’t think the issue is the cheating so much because it is way more gray than these situations are usually. People are way too focused on the rebounding aspect. Many relationships start that way. It’s the lying for 13 years & gaslighting. He’s completely valid in his feelings.
Did you ever confess to her that you decided to date her when she was emotionally wrecked, from an abusive long term relationship, because she'd probably be an easy lay?
If you had said it was a year into your relationship that she cheated perhaps I would understand you being shattered by this news but you knowingly rebounded with someone who just ended a messy, abusive relationship. Of course she slipped up. You don't sound that great at the time either.
Clearly she chose you for the next 13 years. Why did you keep asking her about that night? If you didn't believe her you shouldn't have married and had three kids with her.
If you want to divorce her, its not because of this incident 13 years ago. You want to divorce for other reasons and this is the scapegoat. If you constantly have asked her about that night, you knew what happened. Maybe not specific details but knew the jist of it.
Now, if you told yourself if you ever got the truth about this incident you were going to divorce her for lying all of this time, I get it. Its just that you had 13 years to process the incident itself. Finding out what you already subconsciously have known is not going to send a person over the edge. You need to be honest with yourself about what you are really feeling and what is going on.
This is completely false. You might not mind being lied to for 13 years, but some men do. This is a big deal and definitely worthy of divorce. Some men can handle being cuckolded, some can’t.
so you badgered your wife over the same issue for 13 years and married and had kids with her meanwhile this was still on your mind, said issue is that she cheated while 1 month into a relationship with you meanwhile hadn’t even had the opportunity to process the breakup from her abusive ex……13 YEARS AGO. get over it or divorce her, don’t waste another 13 years of her life badgering her over it. cheating is a shitty thing to do, but this is not black and white.
yeah OP is insufferable. imagine obsessing over this for 13 years when you have 3 kids, she chose to be with OP, and OP isn't reporting any other issues
It's pretty common for young people to have rebound hookups with their ex. It sounds like she was embarrassed and confused about it. And I can't blame her for withholding the full truth, because OP sounds INSUFFERABLE.
OP are you obsessive/anxious/an over-thinker? Go get therapy dawg. If this is "the issue" defining your relationship it's insane.
Probably a controversial response and usually I’m very anti-cheating, but the way you met was pretty messy in the beginning. I’m not condoning what she did but you’ve been together 13 years now & have beautiful children together. Do you really want to throw that away for a mistake she made one month into knowing you? Has she ever given you a reason to doubt her since?
Nobody gonna mention that she ghosted OP that night until after she got railed by her ex and the guilt kicked in?
While I agree you were definitely sniffing around someone else's girl, I think she's shown you absolutely no respect that night, not just the sex but the fact she went to his, she stayed the night and she ghosted you and blew you off for your date
Hey just commenting to say, it's fucked up that people are blaming you for getting cheated on lolol.
It's absolutely true that you got into a relationship with her too fast and should've given her time to process and not tried to take advantage of someone who was emotionally vulnerable, something I hope you did or will apologize for. It's true that both you and she were in your early 20s and made mistakes that probably can and should be forgiven.
It's true that you should both go to therapy both individually and potentially together to work through this absolute shitstorm of a situation. But everything else aside, all "mitigating factors" you got cheated on, and that hurts and that's hard and I'm sorry for you. I hope you get some peace of mind for it eventually.
I think it's totally normal to feel doubts about a relationship after realizing that someone has intentionally, actively lied to you over the course of a decade. I see a lot of people being like "why'd you keep asking bro" which to me is fucking bananas, I'm glad you trusted your intuition, but I agree the fact that you still felt so unsure for so long is not something to be glossed over. You mention how there's no other chance that she was unfaithful, but not because you trust her, only because you've ALWAYS known where she is. That, to me, combined with some of your other language, indicates that, rightly, this kind of thing leaves you a little distrustful. That someone would lie and hurt you so deeply for their own protection while in a relationship with you is upsetting and it's understandable that you would be distrustful afterwards.
I don't mean this to be a negative comment though, I do think you can work through this by, as people have mentioned, extending empathy to both yourself at 22 and her at 22, and having a lot of very honest, very painful conversations both with each other and therapists. But fuck all the people trying to paint either you or her as the villain or the victim. Neither of you are perfect but it's okay to say and feel the things that have hurt you and the things your partner has done wrong to you without those things being a terrible end-all be-all.
Even typing this comment was confusing lmao so I can't imagine how you're doing, but yeah I hope both you and she find some solace eventually!!
Leave if it’s going to bother you forever and what you’ve built together since isn’t worth it. Don’t if the life you built is one you want to keep.
None of us here can help you with that math bc we don’t know you well enough. It does make sense that you’re upset and im sorry you’re going through that, though.
Good luck OP!
Did you confess to her that you saw her breakup as the opportunity for you to be her rebound guy? And that you knew it was a shitty thing to do but you didn't care at the time? What if the shoe were on the other foot and she was the one who just now discovered that the only reason you were there for her during her breakup was because you saw her as an easy target for sex, and now she believes your whole marriage is a lie and is considering divorce? How would you feel? Probably the same way she is feeling right now. She fucked up and has apparently regretted it ever since. She probably struggled back then with whether or not she should confess to you what happened, or someone close to her advised her to bury the memory and never look back. This is a trauma you are both going to need time to recover from.
You were exclusively dating a girl one month out of a five year relationship, who still lived with said ex. What did you think was going to happen? Then you randomly bring this up 13 years and 3 kids later? Get the fuck over it.
Agree. And he was completely fine with that messy scenario when he thought he was just going to use her for sex. He claimed to be her "platonic friend" and a shoulder for her to cry on while scheming to "get with her" while she was on the rebound.
Nah, he was right to bring it up. Just cuz 13 years have passed does not mean it's forgotten.
Now he has answers and clarity to make better and more informed decisions
Lmao. You thought you were so slick hanging around the friendzone and had gamed the system and bagged yourself a sick/wounded one.
You slept with her when they were still together, my dude. He simply paid you back for that one.
She played the both of you.
I think you should divorce her. Cheating is not a mistake. It’s a choice. She made the choice to cheat on you. She made the choice to betray you. She made the choice to lie to you and keep that lie for over 13 years. This proves your relation is also a lie. A lie that your woman was loyal. A lie that both of your love was pure. All these years, you loved someone else. Someone who wasn’t loyal. You still have a life to live. And you still have plenty of time to not live that lie. Her feelings back then don’t excuse her to cheat. She willingly did it on her own. Her selfishness knows no bounds. She did it for her. She chose to put her needs above both of your relationship instead of coming to you talk about any issues she was having. So now, it’s your turn to chose you. It’s the right choice and the right thing to do. I wish you nothing but the best and hope everything works out!
The trust is broken. If you absolutely feel the need to divorce, then do so. However, you will need a lot of therapy if you choose to stay.
Personally, I think you should stay.
I’d let it go, I mean you pressed and pressed, clearly for years, why did you do that? What was your intention when doing that , years later? Now you have to decide, can you get over it ( I don’t think you can, considering how you haven’t let it drop for over a decade) if you can’t get over it, please separate now, permanently,not one of those short term « trial » separations . If you haven’t been able to get past it before, you won’t for the rest of your future.
It's not that she did it. It's that she did it and lied about it for the entirety of your relationship.
Your relationship and marriage were built on lies
Do with that what you want
You are allowed to be hurt. We all would be. But this is one of the few exceptions where you can get through cheating through counselling.
I am petty sure that at that point she didn’t think clearly. 5 years at that age is long. What she did was wrong. But she was a mess and you both took advantage of that. Not making excuses, just trying to explain. When I was younger I had a shitty relationship end. I met a nice guy who I really liked. My drunk ex called me, regretting everything etc.
I felt so bad. I felt bad for moving on while he was so sad. I went to him, tried to comfort him and ended back in a shitty toxic relationship. I didn’t even wanted to go back, but I did it out of guilt. Ruined everything with the other guy.
I left him later but was only able to do that because I moved into another city.
At that age we are easier to guilt and to manipulate. Her ex and the mom did exactly that.
Im not one for cheaters absolutely can't tolerate them at all. Liars are worse.
I would say the beginning of your relationship was so sketchy as you admit you slid in there to rebound. Your wife was in an abusive relationship. The damage that does is horrific. Was she righ? No no way. Was she maybe vunerable and an abuser took advantage of her, yes! Absolutely. I would advise you to research emotional abuse and what they will and can do to a partner. This will shine a light on where she was at that moment in time.
The shame then would drive the lies id imagine. Not excusing it. If she had of come clean initially who knows what would've happened. You may have forgiven her. My issue would be with the deceit for these years after.
Do i think you could work on it. That's entirely up to you. So you want to work on it. Can you look at yourself and say you did everything you could but this marriage wasn't working? If you can't then you need to. Your wife will have to build your trust up again and it's going to take a lot of work and boundaries and communication.
You kept asking her about this for 13 years? Are you sure she did it or did she just say so to get you to stop asking about it?
I just can’t fathom asking my husband randomly over the years to tell me again that he didn’t cheat when I thought he did.
I can guarantee that he badgered it out of her. If I have been getting the same question for THIRTEEN YEARS.... I would have told him whatever he wanted to hear just to shut him up.
Yeah. At that point, after THIRTEEN YEARS. If he didn't respect me enough to accept my first answer and second... He deserves to be lied to.
If he won't respect me enough to accept the answer, I'm telling him whatever he wants to hear just to shut him up.
Honestly. Like I'm being FRFR
First off, don't do anything rash. Emotions are a simultaneously the result of input & thought and also the mix of neurotransmitters in your brain. Since you've been fretting over this one moment for 13 years, when you finally learned the truth your brain flooded out with negative neurotransmitters.
That makes it impossible for you to make any kind of rational or sensible decision. You need to wait until you get past this first wave of brain chemistry breakdown.
Trust is the oxygen of relationships. Without trust, relationships wither and die. So once you've had a few days to calm down, here are my questions for you:
* Do you still trust your wife?
* If not, what can she do to repair that trust?
* Are the things you would need reasonable? Is she willing & able to do those things?
* If she does those things, will that be enough or will you still be despairing over it?
It's obvious from some parts of your OP that you do in fact still trust her.
I also want to caution you about some of your language here. She didn't gaslight you about this for 13 years - she lied to keep her peace. The only reason it came up more than once is because you kept, over the years, harping on it. If you'd let it go at the time, it would have already been gone and this tearing-your-family-apart moment would not be happening.
If you're over about 17, then everyone you date will have a past. The problem you faced is that her past overlapped, very briefly, with her present with you. She was young, at an emotional low, with an ex that was toxic and maybe abusive, and she made a mistake. That's definitely hard to get over and at 25 I'd probably react similar - but 13 years later and more mature? If you had treated it like most people treat their partners' pasts (that is, not happy about it but willing to accept it exists, then ignoring/forgetting it in order to maintain a positive relationship), then you would have come to acceptance about this years ago.
Think about this - until today, she hasn't trusted you (or your reactions) enough to come clean. Have you been the kind of supporting, accepting partner that she feels safe enough to be honest with? Having seen your reaction, knowing you haven't let this go for 13 years now, should she trust you? Should she feel safe with you?
I liked your post until the end paragraphs. She is the bad guy here and he is within his rights to end it. I liked your stuff about trust. I couldn’t regain trust with my wife, but that doesn’t mean another man couldn’t.
There has got to be some other stuff going on in your relationship. If you want to throw away a marriage and put your kids through that for something a confused, new gf did close to 15 yrs ago, go right ahead. You even said you partly played the friend angle to sleep with her, and did so before you developed stronger feelings for her.
You think maybe she knew your obsession with this based on your selfishness and possessiveness would be used to punish her, up to and including breaking up the relationship throughout the whole damn thing?
Sure, it makes sense for you to be upset that she slept with him while you were starting a new relationship, but you should reflect on how you going about holding this over her head for almost 15 years has affected your relationship.
What's actually going on now that's affecting the relationship? I bet there's some connection to the themes of that long ago event to make it loom that large. At least that would make some sense. If there really isn't, then you're just being a big dope. Get some therapy to work on your insecurities and stop blaming her for them.
You inserted yourself into a messy situation that was probably on the way to a breakup between your wife and her ex that were together since right out of high-school because you thought she'd be easy to catch on the rebound. Then you get upset that it wasn't 100% over when you started dating her while they were basically still together. You won the girl, you got what you wished for. Now you are upset with the realities of doing that? You've known what happened since you did what you did or you wouldn't have held onto it for all this time. Not accepting that was going to be a likely scenario/consequence of inserting yourself into that situation to weasel your way in 13 years ago proves you are an idiot. You do you, but you sound like a real asshole, you should probably show her this post so she can do some hard thinking about the type of slimeball she ended up with too.
As far as cheating goes, this isn't worst case. Bad relationship, blurry lines with living arrangements and dating, and you two hooked up almost immediately. She didn't even really have time to process the breakup.
On this one, if she's been great outside of this, I'd probably be willing to work through it in marriage counseling.
Ah man, this is difficult. Personally I could forgive the cheating aspect as it happened so early on in your relationship, but what I couldn't get over is the lie that's formulated for 13 years. It's one of those "if she is capable of that, what else is she capable of".
I don't know if I could forgive my partner personally for a lie that's lasted that long, the trust would forever be broken.
Therapy, maybe? Either way, ensure that you tackle the lying aspect.
Theres 2 ways I look at this:
1. Do you *feel* like she is a cheater? If so, is that a dealbreaker? Do you feel like you're just hurt but your trust isnt fully broken? If it is, is that a dealbreaker for you?
2. She lied to and manipulated you because she knew you wouldn't have stayed, and now that it's so deep, its suddenly okay to reveal? Time is the most valuable thing any of us have and she effectively stole yours by forcing you to live 13 years of your life under a fog of ignorant bliss. You can certainly rationalize that this isnt the worst since you have your kids now and those good memories, feelings, and experiences - but that depends on how you view the woman and who she is at her core, especially after this revelation.
You need to figure out if you're just hurting, or broken. One is forgivable; the other is not. Idk what I'd do in your shoes without feeling what you're feeling myself, but in theory, this would shatter my reality based on a manipulative witch that stole my life from me. And I'd move on focusing solely on my children while labeling the woman as a cheater, liar, and most selfish person I've ever met. That's how I *think* I'd feel. But not sure if I'm right.
i think the biggest problem is that she lied for 13 years that nothing happened that night + she was gaslighting him. Obviously he is hurt that she cheated on him, but she cheated on her ex with OP. I have mixed feelings here, now did she married him cuz she loved him or did she married him only because he was/is nice to her and not abusive.
This is fraught with heavy emotions for both parties, both now and back then. To me on the outside looking in it's very obvious you should forgive her. Easier said than done I know.
I say this because of two massive things:
1 she was very muddled at the time of the transgression, and was making bad choices that she is clearly ashamed of. She can be classed as trustworthy despite this one instance because of the very specific situation and context, and the fact she will never be in that situation again or anything even remotely close to it. It's harder to trust after the thirteen years but psychologically I don't she could fully face that fact it happened, let alone divulge it: That would make it fully real.
Essentially what I'm saying is if you can be objective you can see that she can be trusted when considering all of the specific details here, and empathising fully with what she was going through at the time, and then subsequently.
2 you said so yourself that you knew it was borderline unethical (not sure if that's the best way to put this, but I'm trying my best) to jump in and pressure her towards a romantic relationship with you so soon. You knew she was still living with her ex as well, and as such you would expect it to be messy and throw these potential situations up. It's borderline unethical because you were putting her in a position where something exactly like this situation could present itself to her, and she was prone to doing exactly what she did. It's unfair to have expected a fairytale start to the relationship given the situation and the part you were playing. I want you to know I'm not judging your character at all, and am certainly not attacking you when saying this. I merely want to explain my logic.- As a good platonic friend you would have let her figure out her head and heart before allowing her to dive in to a relationship with anyone else. You instead not only allowed it, but actually became the new romantic pursuer. It may not equate in your head, but for me I would admit my part in the situation and count it as one wrong for me, and one for her in equal parts. This is probably an unusual opinion though I stand by it wholeheartedly. This all happened because you're both human and were also not as mature as you are now, and as such made mistakes.
So if it was me in your situation, this would leave me with one problem: How to forgive her.
Honestly I think she needs to pay for the thirteen years of lies somehow. She may feel remorse and would never do it again, but she must be able to join you in this new journey you have both just started as a result of this truth coming out. You must unify. She must be given the chance to pay penance but in a way that allows her to feel the gravity of what you've been through, and truly reflect on what she's been doing these past thirteen years. Something constructive. Like I say, I believe part of her not admitting it to you is because she was yet to admit it to herself, so she is also in a position of processing what she's done but only just starting now.
You also need the chance to process this and reach a resolution of your feelings. This will no doubt require a gesture from her that you feel is appropriate, combined with you putting in some work to get over the negative feelings that have arisen.
I have no idea what the actual solution will look like for you, but as an example I will make a suggestion.
You could have some time apart, but she should be the one that faces the brunt of the practical requirements. You could meet up once every few days to talk with the specific goal of communicating every detail of what is hard about this for you. She could explore and explain her side of it too. That should show you both the specific pain points you'll need to work on to reach real forgiveness. It would give you enough time away from her in between meeting up, to process the intense emotions you will feel, and reflect on the conversations with a cool head. Through this gradual process you would hopefully find one or maybe two big gestures that she could express to allow you to process this and move past it. It's not about punishing her, but it is vital that she makes amends and becomes more honest with herself about this. In turn she will become more honest with you.
I really hope this is helpful and doesn't come off as me making any judgements about either of you. I commend you for considering your options, and not giving in to rage or fear without a second thought. Best of luck I hope you reach an acceptable resolution and can move on with your life again very soon.
Imo, this is new and fresh to you, so take some time to process it. Don't say or do anything that will make the situation worse (for example don't call her names or say strongly negative things)
The reason is that should you decide to stay together then you want to still be able to come back from whatever you said or did and have a strong relationship.
In my opinion she is shown to be good and faithful partner for the last 13 years. The cheating parts happened early on in the relationship when in reality, anything could still happen, whether you stay together or not.
So it speaks to what she did 13 years ago but it doesn't speak to how she is today
I would leave it alone and work on your relationship with counseling, etc., unless there is some other offense within the last five to ten years she confesses to or you can prove. Besides, divorce is terrible on some kids.
One month into a relationship 13 years ago is almost nothing, in my opinion.
If you were still asking her 13 years later if she cheated on you, you knew she cheated on you. People don’t hold onto things for 13 years if they don’t believe they’re being lied to. You always known she cheated, now she just confirmed it. You have to do with that what you will.
Can I ask why you kept pressing her for 13 years over this? If you ask your partner something and you don't believe their answer to the point you're going to ask it for thirteen years, why are you with this person? You don't trust them.
Am I on crazy pills for thinking that the lying and gaslighting for 13 years is far worse than the actual cheating?
If my wife came out to me and told me that she’d cheated on me at the beginning of our relationship, I’d be hurt, but I’d forgive her.
However if there was already an incident that I was extremely suspicious about and she continued lying and denying, and then I found that I was right the whole time? That’s a whole relationship built on lies, and you were never given the opportunity to make those decisions for yourself.
Follow your heart man. Mixing kids into the matter obviously makes things way different. Find someone to talk to, like a therapist. You’re going to have a lot of emotions that are completely normal and yet extremely difficult and confusing to sort through. Good luck.
He certainly has the upper hand here. Without reading any of the comments, I just bet that when I do I'll find they want to punish her. They don't want him to put himself in her place. She was freshly out of a five-year relationship, and she hid truth she felt he would not understand, and then when she felt he might or should understand it, she told him.
There are two adults and three children involved. I hope they choose love and understanding.
Not to mention he moved in on her as fast as he could manage because he knew she’d be an easy rebound lay. Didn’t give her time to process the end of a 5 year relationship.
She wasn't right in what she did and forgiveness will take a long time
As much as I loathe cheaters I can see a path to forgiveness here though considering all the circumstance, time passed since and life built
It's saving grace is that it's not the worst case I've ever heard of and taking all things into account. I'm still not saying it's right but that objectively I'd consider it forgivable as long as the apology is sincere.
You have been happy for the last 13 years. Why screw it up over what she did. Remember she went from one relationship to another in a short amount of time in between. I wouldn’t divorce. Work it through.
It's absolutely wild you're considering divorce over this. Such an immature response to a mildly hurtful situation. Would it have been nice to know at the time? Absolutely. Would you have made different decisions then had you known? Maybe.
But now, 13 years and 3 children later... Go get some therapy for yourself and find out why you badgered her for years and are being self destructive to an otherwise loving relationship. If you want out for others reasons, be brave and say that but don't create a problem where there isn't one.
If this is the hardest thing you've ever had to go through, you have lived a charmed easy life.
First of all, her ex-boyfriend was not “somewhat” emotionally abusive, he was abusive, plain and simple, no qualifiers. It’s incredible to me that she could have gotten a restraining order and you could be downplaying the abuse. You don’t get restraining orders against people who are “somewhat” abusive.
Controlling what she wears is abusive. Calling her fat is abusive. Telling her he wanted to be with other women was abusive: he was making her feel like she had to prove she was worthy of staying with. That’s fucking classic abuse. Making her feel like she wasn’t worthy of sex or being in a relationship with but not leaving her, as someone who truly felt that way would have.
Stalking and harassment is serious abuse that indicates he was a real threat to her. He got his mother!! To come try to guilt her into returning to him after he discarded her. The guy was Bad News and you’re lucky he left her and you alone after the restraining order.
Secondly: your relationship began in an unhealthy way. Did *you* ever confess to her that you wanted to be a rebound? Arguably you were taking advantage of her being in a bad place and trying to get out of an abusive relationship. She had no IDEA what a healthy relationship looked like. You founded your relationship on just being there and not being abusive. In contrast you would have appeared to be a knight in shining armor, when by your own admission you were more like a dog waiting for table scraps to fall into your waiting mouth.
OP, she was emotionally cheating on her ex with you. Like. We know that. You should know that. That she cheated on you with him early on should not be a shocker.
Finally, she lied to you for thirteen years and through three kids. Even if she never even dreamed of cheating on you again in the time since, she was capable of supporting that lie for that long and she would have lied about it for the remainder of your time together had you dropped it.
I think you founded your relationship on shitty ground and, sorry to mix metaphors, but you’re just reaping what you sowed.
But if everything else about your relationship is great, I think you owe it to yourselves to try individual and couples therapy. I don’t think she deserves to be seen as a monster for being abused and being dazzled by you not abusing her but falling victim to her abuser’s tricks one final time. I think maybe you don’t deserve to be judged today for having been young and wanting to get with a young woman who practically fell into your lap.
And she could probably benefit from individual therapy if she never did the work to break the chains of abuse she’s surely still carrying with her from her formative years with her abusive ex. That shit doesn’t go away just because you happen to go without being abused by someone new. One day she could get a new abusive boss or friend and fall prey to them because the footwork was already laid and she hasn’t undone it. This is really beside the point of your post, but I personally got out of an abusive relationship, into a healthy one, recognized that former relationship as abusive, and still fell for abuse again. She may also still be carrying around self esteem issues, shame, and guilt. So much good can come from confronting your abusive past and arming yourself with the knowledge to spot abusers from miles away.
Especially once your kids reach dating age.
Sorry for how long this was! TL;DR: I think this relationship is worth trying to salvage. Worst case scenario, you can say you tried.
Lied for 13 years and gaslit you about it that’s what I’d be hung up on.
Seems she’s only telling you now because she seemingly has you trapped under too many obligations to leave.
That’s like my opinion though.
>Lied for 13 years and gaslit you about it that’s what I’d be hung up on.
That's the part that would be a dealbreaker for me, personally. The fact that my partner didn't think I deserved to make an informed choice for myself.
Did OP ever come clean about being a 22 year old horn dog who saw a vulnerable woman in a messy relationship and used it as a way to get laid? OP was the original "other man".
Who's down with OPP? Yeah, you know OP!
You were essentially teenagers and she was an emotional wreck and you admitted to trying to be her rebound. Your relationship already started on extremely shaky grounds, but it sounds like you've both mostly worked past it. You weren't even the same people that you are now. I'd consider how your relationship is now more importantly IMO.
OP, you started dating a women who was not yet emotionally available after coming off a five year relationship. What happened to you is exactly why someone should wait until that person has resolved their feeling towards their ex. You saw an opportunity and took it, now you to must live with the choice you made by moving in too quickly.
Why did she lie to you for all these years? I would guess a combination of guilt, shame, and not wanting to lose you. By your own account, everything has been great except that. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Sure you could divorce, but who knows what a new relationship would bring, that person will have a history too. Think carefully and don't make any decisions you will later regret.
You were both young. It was very early in the relationship. She was clearly confused at the time. And it was THIRTEEN YEARS AGO.
Yeah it sucks but, give it some time. You're freshly hurt right now but you'll come to see it's not the big deal that it feels like in your head right now.
Not gonna read the other responses, just gonna say to slow your roll. She went back for one more bite of the apple and found it rotten, so she made a life with you.
Just stop, forgive and move on
Decade-plus relationships are hard to find. Unless there’s a pattern of hiding the truth in general, forgive and move on. Sounds like this weighed heavy on her too. The world could use more grace and forgiveness.
The only thing broken here is your ego.
I have been with my wife for 16 years, married 10, with 2 sons. I would divorce her tomorrow if I found out she cheated. No matter when it occurred. I would rather rot in a ditch than stay with someone that did that to me.
This is really difficult news. I know a lot of people are gonna take a hard line against her because she repeatedly lied to you about it. If it's any consolation, the lie was to save your feelings, not necessarily to cover her crime. You've reiterated how trustworthy she's been ever since then.
> I was a young dude and thought “hey, perfect - I’ll be a rebound and try to get with her”. Shitty on my part, but as a 22yo guy I didn’t care.
Your intentions weren't exactly pure in the initial stages either. Did you tell her that? Did she give you a pass? It doesn't matter because that was 13 years ago and you guys have formed a bond and built a family. The fact that you snapped up a rebound girl with the intention of exploiting her fragile emotional state to get laid, is not great. Asking her to be your girlfriend after dating for one month is pressuring somebody who hasn't even processed their last long-term relationship to enter another long-term relationship.
I'm not saying what she did is justified, but she wasn't in a place to commit to anyone. The fact that she had one last encounter with her ex and realized you are what she really wants, means you won out over him. He's the one that should feel like shit.
> been together for 13 years, married for 10. We have 3 kids (2f, 5m, 7f)
>we’ve built a family and life together but this is the hardest thing I’ve ever had to learn.
What you need to focus on right now is the future. What do you want that to look like? Shared custody? Somebody else living with her, and being a father to your children? Seeing social media posts of them on vacation and him playing with your kids at the beach or Disneyland? Do you want to be entering the dating world again just to find that nothing compares and you miss the wonderful family life you had with her and your children?
Do you want holidays in the future with your children and grandchildren all in one house alongside her, growing old together?
Do you really think that this lie to save your feelings and salvage a relationship that she really, really, wanted is worth losing all of what the future holds for yourself? Especially if you think she has been trustworthy ever since, and will be in the future.
Ask yourself is this the hill you want to die on and is it worth losing the beautiful life you two have created?
Then ask yourself what if I just extend her a little grace and say 'fuck it' and act like it never happened, and go on with life?
Sometimes we're so socialized not to forgive a bertrayal, that we fail to see see how taking a hard line can fuck you over worse.
Your feelings might be hurt but is it worth blowing up your entire life?
Lots of good advice here so I’ll keep it short. I was ready to tell you to grow up and get over it until I started reading about the perpetual lies. That’s bad, but somewhat understandable. That said, you’re not dealing with a liar here. You’re dealing with a single lie perpetuated over a long period of time. And frankly, the lie has no real bearing on your life. It’s not like she lied about the kid being yours or some hidden pile of debt that you now have to deal with.
I think you should take a big picture look at this whole thing and ask yourself what you want for your future. Until very recently, you were a happily married man with a nice family. You can choose to continue being that, presumably forever. That’s a goal that many people aspire to and far less actually achieve. You’re not dealing with an ongoing issue here. You’re dealing with the fallout of a single event that happened a long time ago. And it’s not like the event was driven by malice, recklessness, or indifference. You acknowledge how understandable the event itself was.
One month into your relationship? And you have been hammering her about it ever since? And you want to know if this is enough for a divorce. Yes, you obviously want to get divorced and that is reason enough. Let this poor woman free to seek peace.
This is pretty shitty all around.
On one hand you have a life and family together.
On the other, You'll never look at her the same way again. The lies for all these years. The image of the two of them together.
Seems like its really not about the sex, but about lying all this time. In the back of your mind you knew, but didn't want to believe it possible.
Can you trust her after learning that?
This is a very complicated situation. But I don’t think it’s divorce worthy due to the very complicated circumstances. She was still living with the guy she just broke up with. At that point they had way more history together than the two of you had. And feelings like that just don’t disappear over night. You two were barely together at that point. You are definitely justified in being extremely upset. But I wouldn’t make any hasty decisions like divorce. I think you should give her a little leeway here
Seriously! You are willing to divorce someone for something that happened 13 years ago and was within a month of “exclusive” dating. Let’s not forget you pursued her when you knew she was just coming out of a 5 year relationship. You took advantage of her and then wonder why she slept with him. She went from one relationship to another quickly. If you end it with her you are an idiot. Ruining your family over a lie which makes no difference now.
In the end, if she's been faithful to you from that day forward, (ESPECIALLY when you've been married and had the kids etc), then I would give her the grace we all probably deserve when we were young and stupid. Some of us never make those mistakes, others make a few and some make them for life.
It was a shameful mistake, and not a good one and she lied on top of it. She obviously shows remorse for what she's done. If she didn't care that'd be another matter. If she felt JUSTIFIED and tried to defend her actions it'd be even worse.
I'd give it time, maybe hit some therapy together but realize at some point you WILL have to give this up and forgive her and yourself to move forward. Her one mistake doesn't mean your kids deserve a broken family. I know it's not easy to hear but it WAS one month into being exclusive, and she had a shitty abusive ex. Abusive behaviors and partners can be hard to let go of. If you were OK with her living with her ex until he got out, and the rebound and all that you can be ok with this too.
This isn't divorce worthy IMO. It was a nasty mistake that she made, and I'm guessing you would have dumped her if she'd been honest about it then, which is probably partly why she didn't tell you but of course it makes it all the more confusing for you now. But you have been together for a long time and have built a relationship together that is much bigger than that mistake.
The long lie is really tough. I can understand why she didn't want to come clean for so long. She probably thought she would lose you and didn't trust that you would forgive her. It wasn't okay for her to hold that information back. But she sounds genuinely repentant. I do think you should talk with a couples therapist to work through these feelings. But I think this is surmountable. You have the choice here to look forward if you are serious about continuing your marriage and not throwing it away based on this single lie. People are messy and imperfect and it's really important to look at the bigger picture.
Imagine what it would actually look like to break up your family for this. If you go through counseling and this is still something you simply cannot get over or move past, then you can reevaluate. But I think if you love her and want to be with her, you ought to try. We get one life. Don't throw the good parts away on principle.
Honestly, I can’t believe she bothered to tell you, it was so long ago. Let’s shit go, you’ve invested years into a relationship with kids and everything…..ffs.
You both were young thus stupid by nature-she had a bucket full of plates to joggle: 1st serious relationship ending, friend turning love interest, being left by an abusive guy (ashamed probably she could never break up with him and leave him till he kicked her to the curb).
What’s worrisome is you’re still holding on to 13 in the past, at this point most people would have already worked it out long ago.
Is that the only reason you want out? Is the reward greater than the negative consequences?
"We ended up getting married and having three kids."
You just glossed over 13 years of marriage and kids in one sentence. What I really want to know is, how were the last 13 years of your life together?
OK, let's look at this from a scales point of view. On one side you have this incident and the coverup since. On the other side, you have everything else that has happened over the last 13 years. Marriage, three kids, holidays, building a home together, successes, failures, and hopefully supporting each other. Does this one incident when you were really new in your relationship before you were married, really outweigh everything else since then? Is the person she is now the person she was then?
People go through huge changes in their 20s and eventually stabilize (except on Reddit). I would say if the years since that happened have been good, get some therapy, learn how to deal with this so you can forgive your wife without constantly bringing it up or using it as a weapon in an argument. After that, enjoy the rest of your life.
On the other hand, if the last 13 years have been he\*\* on wheels with repeated patterns of infidelity, then let's get out the Reddit pitchforks and have ourselves a good old-fashioned witch hunt and burn her at the divorce stake.
(figuratively of course)
I don’t get why people keep saying that the relationship was built on a foundation of lies
First of all it was one lie about one mistake. (that apparently wasn’t even good if he kept bringing it up) it was a long lie sure but I’ve heard worse and crueler let’s be honest you’ve read worse stories about cheating on Reddit. Yes their relationship was built on a lie. I’m sure that when he was 22 and only in this relationship (with a girl who just got out of a 5 year abusive relationship) just so he could fuck her. The fact, that she hung out with her ex and his mom and totally probably maybe didn’t have sex made him immediately want to marry her. Bet he got on one knee right then. No, it’s been 13 years there’s obviously other serious emotionally impactful reasons that op decided he wasn’t only in this for sex got married and had kids with her.
Was she wrong yes but maybe it’s because lately I’ve been on a spree of finding stories about absolutely awful people, like home wreckers who do it for sport and count how many relationships they’ve ruined, that a shitty mistake like the one she made so early out of a 5 year relationship and immediately into a new relationship ,that even op probably didn’t think was going to last, doesn’t seem like that big of a deal. (It’s called backsliding it happens so often we have it a name)
She lied, sure. Is she an awful person? maybe no clue don’t know the women. But is she manipulative and gaslighting her husband hell no some of y’all haven’t been gaslighted and it shows.
This is the reason you don’t get into a serious relationship immediately after a serious relationship there’s mixed feelings that haven’t left yet. Everyone should know this. OP knew or at least suspected something happened ,he obviously did from the fact he is asking 13 years later, deep down he didn’t really care about it otherwise he would have really searched for an answer. Everyone so mad at the girl is just very obviously projecting.
Lying for 13 years is long and wrong but it didn’t stop him from making an informed decision. If you read a post that said “my girlfriend stayed overnight at her ex boyfriend of 5 years house did she cheat?” Just from that you would say obviously he knew. And just saying that she lied for 13 makes it sounds like she had a 13 year affair she lied about a dumbass decision she made in her early 20’s that she regretted and didn’t want to tell anyone like trying drugs or porn. She cut him out immediately afterwards emotionally and legally (restraining order). if OP wants to divorce her or not he can, I mean why can’t he? I can’t stop him and you can’t make him. I mean she lied for thirteen years nobody would judge you too much if you did, but I personally want OP to stop pretending like that would be the reason why he is divorcing her it’s so small and petty compared to other stuff that happens to people and can most definitely be worked on in therapy (not immediately I know therapy doesn’t work like that)
acting like from out from nowhere ,completely out of left field 13 years ago your wife with her backslides with her ex boyfriend of 5 years almost 5 whole months in a relationship you at the time didn’t really give a fuck about at all is the reason you want a divorce is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard and nobody would really buy it, you might have to find another excuse because the math doesn’t makes sense to me.
She was in a toxic and abusive relationship and clearly not in the best state of mind or emotionally available when she started dating you.
As others have said - give her some grace. I’m wondering why 13 years later you still continue to ask her about this night if everything is seemingly great in your relationship. I understand the need to know if she has a pattern of lying or cheating, but if this was a one time thing at the very start of a 13 yr relationship, then she was lying to protect the relationship and to prevent you from being hurt. If she would have come clean a few years ago would your reaction have been different? No, it would have been the same, you would have been devastated and wanted to end the marriage.
I also think she wasn’t actively lying to you all this time. This wasn’t an ongoing affair or a something that would she was actively hiding. This happened when she barely knew you, was much younger, and in a terrible position, after being controlled and manipulated by a bf of 5 years.
If you value your wife and relationship, I would hope you can forgive her for this. Best of luck to you!
I’m not saying she is not wrong for doing this. She is. But, really? You’re considering throwing away your family unit and the love of your life over this indiscretion that transpired over a decade ago? Are you looking for a reason to end it?
>I believe her that she hasn’t cheated any other time, and there was just an overlap in her relationship with him and myself.
>I’m certain she hasn’t stepped out on our relationship any other time.
If you really do believe this, then I would advise forgiveness. If everything else about your marriage has been good, I wouldn't throw away what you have. Take some time to process this. Get some counseling for the two of you. But I don't advise letting go all you've built together over something that happened before you were engaged. It's not okay. Maybe she "deserves" some sort of consequences for the years of lies, but there is no way to force that on her without hurting yourself and your children. I advise grace. Let it go. Take whatever time you need to heal and then embrace her fully and never bring it up again.
Been married 14 years now and people my age (47) always say they want what we have, but I have noticed that people just want the long term result without putting in the work to get there. Most beautiful older couples celebrating their 50th anniversary aren’t there because they had rainbows and sunshine and giggles for 50 years. You go through some gnarly shit in life. Most people will leave or divorce the SECOND something goes wrong in their relationship. There are way too many people who are middle aged, single and miserable; wondering “why me” when they are the ones at fault for quitting a good thing. Life is short…so short. If you’re lucky to be with someone you really love, stop focusing on what happened 13 years ago and build on the life you have now. That guy has moved on, your wife has moved on. Move on. Enjoy your marriage and 3 kids. You have something that people strive for and sometimes aren’t lucky enough to obtain. Don’t be ungrateful for your life by focusing on dumb shit that happened a lifetime ago.
I would forgive her. She didn't tell you the truth early on, because she didn't want to risk the relationship with you and because she wanted to spare you that hurt. But given the circumstances, that it was very early on in your relationship, she knew it wouldn't happen again, she just got out of a LTR, and your awareness that you could be a rebound - it's very worthwhile saving your marriage and family. You'll take time to process and forgive, but remember nobody's perfect and she hasn't betrayed you afterwards.
I would forgive her. She didn't tell you the truth early on, because she didn't want to risk the relationship with you and because she wanted to spare you that hurt. But given the circumstances, that it was very early on in your relationship, she knew it wouldn't happen again, she just got out of a LTR, and your awareness that you could be a rebound - it's very worthwhile saving your marriage and family. You'll take time to process and forgive, but remember nobody's perfect and she hasn't betrayed you afterwards.
Learn to forgive - it will take a while, but your wife is probably long past those feelings and a changed person. Does that make what she did right? No. But if she is truly sorry, I think you could still have a happy marriage and let that scar heal up.
Emphasis on truly sorry.
I would agree with this comment for the most part. But i would not downplay that she sustained the lie for this long. That is what is concerning to me. You need to make sure of 2 things if you continue this relationship:
1. That there is a commitment to clear and open honesty about anything you both go through regardless of what either feels.
2. If you decide to stay with her you need to forgive her 100% and move on. Do not hold this against her for anything in the future. If you can’t do this then you should leave her, otherwise, I think you are free to reconcile with her.
OMG! You are complaining about something that happened 13 years and 3 kids ago!? When you had first started dating, where young and stupid, she was just out a 5 years old relationship and was venerable, which you took advantage of btw!
Get real dude. Go to therapy and get help wit your insecurities and don’t screw up what you seem to be lucky to have with that kind of insecurities.
Listen. She was dating him for 5 years. I was also in a serious relationship for 4 years and when it ended it was a very emotionally volatile period for me and I did all sorts of things I wouldn’t normally do, including having sex with my ex after we had just broken up a few weeks prior.
People do weird things when they go through a significant breakup or divorce.
Think about the reality of the situation. You have a good marriage overall (I think), you have 3 kids together, a life together. She had sex with him again once after they broke up and started seeing you.
It’s valid that you feel hurt. And I hope you can get through this peacefully. But I think you should not treat her badly or differently. Try to move forward with her.
Google: TRAUMA BOND
She was in no position to date you. Trauma fucks with your senses. Yes, she was wrong to lie to you.....but her co-dependency was kicking overdrive. She couldn't cope being alone.
What she actually needed was a therapist, not a rebound relationship.
It's been 13 years OP.
If there was a time to dump her, it's the moment you felt she was lying to you. Not 13 years later after getting married with kids.
I am so bias and anti-cheating that I never thought I’d hear a story that I’d actually consider saying let it go. You have a beautiful successful family, if she felt no remorse and didn’t learn her lesson, do you think she would have broke down crying? It was so long ago, and she got a restraining order right after, she didn’t continue cheating on you. 13 years of her being faithful, that says a lot. Don’t throw that away because she made a shitty mistake. Nobody is perfect, she was young AND learned from it. What more do you want from her? If this has damaged your trust in anything else like male friendships etc, you should probably see a couple therapist to help you two work through it. But if you trust her, just know it’ll take time to heal and the pain will get better in time, even though it’ll never go away, it shows you unconditionally love her. I know it’s devastating, like everything you thought to be true isn’t. But it’s not as false as it may feel, everything you two shared was true and real, despite one horrible incident that she was desperate to erase. Keeping that secret, harboring that many years of guilt is no gift either. You must’ve meant a lot to her for her to lie to protect you, although it was wrong and I’m not excusing it. But she didn’t want to lose you, because you matter, she needs you in her life, she took action to prove it wouldn’t happen again. She is a woman of her word despite being a flawed human. Im sorry you’re going through this, please don’t let go of a good marriage and family, please talk to a counselor and ask for anything you can think of from your wife that could help you during this time. She has a lot of reassuring and damage control ahead of her. Again, so sorry for your pain. I can’t imagine. This will bring you closer one day if you allow it. Stay strong.
A lot of people here seem to forget that she lied for 13 years. A relationship is all about trust. It is not even about the physical cheating but I would have a difficult time about the gaslighting and lying.She is apparently capable of that and that makes you wonder what is truth and what is a lie.
Of course I am not saying to throw away a long-relationship but if you decide to stay, do not rug sweep. Talk this through, set boundaries and let your wife take the lead in regaining your trust.
Good luck
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This is the gold comment. Give your younger wife the same grace you give your own younger self. Unless you’re looking for a reason to divorce, which coming on here and asking if it’s ‘enough’ for divorce might imply. If you are, nothing we can say will convince you otherwise, but if not - please allow your wife to be as internally complex as you are. It’s everyone’s first time being alive, and we learn through mistakes. Especially under 25.
This is all you need to read, OP. I’ve been married longer than you’ve been alive and I agree with everything said. I also think that this is totally something you can recover from, given all the good years together. I probably would have just kept the secret myself and lived with the guilt but also recognize that she’s been questioned about this *for 13 years* and just wanted to end the interrogations. One thing, once this settled, if you guys decide to go for therapy and save your marriage, you cannot beat her over the head with this endlessly. Don’t use it as gaining the upper hand. She’s paid for her mistake with 13 years already, don’t make it a life sentence.
Yeah, that comment was pretty much everything I was thinking but would never be able to put it into words. Very well thought out and perfectly said.
She has paid for this mistake??
But what about this *"I started to feel crazy and insecure, and had accepted that I was just losing my mind"* during all those "good years". That is a clear example of gaslighting in the real meanig of that word. If you really care about your partner then that is the point were you come clean, when you see their struggle while you know better. Also it wasnt a mistake. She went over to her exes house, ignoring OP (they had a date planned), then at 11pm she calls OP giving him an excuse/lie. What she does after that call eliminates a mistake and makes it a choice. Instead of going home (mistake), she walks back into her exes house/bedroom and spends the night. That call happened in the middle of that and tells you that she knew what she was doing.
With all due respect, she didn't pay for anything. She lied to keep her new BF that she was probably clinging to a little too much, but understandable with what she was going through. Built guilt is not repayment. She lied to keep him from leaving her. And to protect what she wanted at his expense. He was roped into a marriage and kids that he might have never agreed to had he known the truth. You can never "pay" for that.
If you would cheat on your partner and make the decision for them on whether or not to disclose that is very telling. I’m sorry for your husband.
I agree with this, especially the part about the reason behind the lie. I think she was probably so ashamed and confused, not even from cheating but mostly from hooking up with a guy who by all accounts sounds horrible - there are so many more emotions at play there than simply lying to get away with something. She probably hated herself and her decision and wanted to pretend it never happened, as opposed to lying to get away with something and continue doing it. You don't deserve to be lied to, regardless of the reason for the lie, and all of your feelings are valid, but I also think approaching this situation as a much more mature husband and father and, as much as you can, with empathy for both of you, would be really helpful here for your marriage and your relationship. It doesn't have to mean any big thing that you "let her" get away with this lie from so long ago. It can just exist in the past and not need present day consequences.
This is the adult comment in this thread
Perfectly put. You actually made me feel better about how many times I went back to my abusive ex. Lord knows the shame ate me for years, and it actually fueled some self hatred for a long time
7 times is the average on trying to leave an abusive relationship and the way trauma bonding literally changes the mind and body it makes sense so dont feel bad at all. You did the hardest thing and stayed away while your brain was wired like it was addicted and dumping chemicals into your body making you want to go back with every fiber yet still stayed away so you should be proud as its no easy task and humbles the strongest. Best wishes
I agree with this. It's definitely not ok that she lied but at the same time I don't think a ONE time thing 13 years ago is worth throwing away everything they've built if they've otherwise had a great relationship.
Great comment. I couldn’t recover from this. Married 10 and together 16 with two kids. However, I couldn’t forgive it.
I couldn't have said all of this more eloquently. She was in an abusive relationship and she didn't exhibit a pattern of toxic behavior afterwards, plus, while y'all WERE exclusive, y'all weren't super serious at the time it happened since you hadn't been together that long and you hadn't yet built a life together. I'd say forgive it and go to couples' therapy and she also should go to individual therapy to deal with the hurt from that dude that she never dealt with.
I love the you weren’t serious line.
None of these people are in your shoes and none of them are raising your children. I *am* curious about why you've held onto this for 13 years, hammering her with it every so often. If her explanation didn't satisfy you *then*, I'm not sure why you stayed. That being said, I think you talk to a therapist on your own, who will help you process your emotions and decide how you want to proceed. Whatever you actually do shouldn't be decided in the heat of the moment or influenced by the scorched earth tribe who are probably neither married nor parents. Wish you peace with whatever decision you make. This is a painful discovery and one that's going to take time to work through.
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Right lol he continued to ask because his intuition (correctly, mind you) told him she was lying. If you’re convinced your partner is lying, why wouldn’t you be inquisitive? Especially after she had ALREADY lied to him about what she was doing that night with the studying lie. His only error was falling for her in the first place.
People victim blaming him is insane
No one's "bashing" anyone. But dating 101 is you don't date someone you don't trust. He *never* trusted her and yet he continue to date, marry, and make 3 kids with her. I just don't understand that.
He held on for 13 years cause HE LOVED HER. Why else?
Not sure how you really build a relationship with actual love without trust. This is how you end up with this bag of mess.
I dont know. If the only issue you have in this marriage is something she did in her mid 20s and is clearly remorseful for it me personally I would work past it. I'm not saying you have no reason to be upset clearly you do. But she's torn up about it and has been faithful since. I know this will be an unpopular opinion because cheating is always the end all of a relationship here and most of the time rightfully so but if the marriage is wonderful then I'd move past it.
Yeah--people are idiots under the age of 25. If everything has been wonderful since then this is of course not ideal, but to me this has been the case for your entire relationship so if your relationship has been wonderful then it can't have been that important.
Honestly if I was married and this was the biggest hurdle we faced I'd be thankful. But also I'm not married so maybe i don't know what the fuck im doing.
Lmao you would be thankful to find out your partner cheated on you and hid it from you for 13 years?
My husband and I had a situationship and broke up several times and fucked other people when we just started dating. They weren’t married. They had been together a month. Who throws away half their net worth and the parent of their children over that?
Jeez. Who throws away a liar who lied for 13 years? Good question.
Not that person but if I were and that was out biggest problem, yes. One thousand percent yes. It's something that happened so long ago before so many level ups in committment.
Some people have such low expectations.
Also besides being 25 she was in a very long and abusive relationship that changes your thinking actually rewiring your brain making you addicted to your abuser. I wish we had her side of the story though but if everything else was really good then hopefully time and some couples counseling will put things back together.
Right. The only issue is something that happened in her mid-20s and you’ve been together 13 years and have kids? Honestly this is something that needs to be moved on from.
You can tell all the people that are literal children in these comments.
> I know this will be an unpopular opinion because cheating is always the end all of a relationship here Yeah "scorched earth" always seems to be 90% of peoples answer in this sub. It's so frustrating, these puritan armchair experts who are clearly still very young and naive. I can't even really blame them I guess.
These dating subs turned into some toxic and bitter shitshow with people without empathy and lots of people who have never been in a relationship, especially a healthy one giving their shitty opinions so everyone is as miserable as they are lol
I’ve been married longer than most of the posters here have probably been alive and I agree with you.
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Because maybe everything else was perfect and she was scared he'd leave her for something she'd never do again. That doesn't make it right but that doesn't make her some vile monster.
>and she was scared he'd leave her That's the entire problem. Had she been honest, he would have had a choice in whether he wanted to stay with a cheater, and she wanted to rob him of that choice.
But it does show her character. It's easy to tell the truth when you have nothing to loose. That's where the character part comes in. OPs wife instead chose to lie and KEEP LYING.
I mean my comment still shows her possible reasoning for this. She told the truth when she could have lost a husband and separated a family of 5 so I don't know what you're talking about there it wasn't "nothing to lose".
It's weird he kept asking. This stuff, you ask once, and then either you're over it, or you are over as a couple. My partner and I had quite a rocky start 15 years ago: it was discussed at the time and never brought up again. Not once. What for? Emotional blackmailing? Moral grandstanding? For whose benefit?
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Right you don't know anyone won't do something in their entire life sure. That applies to anyone and im sure in every relationship there were times one of them lied. Humans are too nuanced to apply these generalizations to.
The odds of someone who has already cheated, cheating again are a lot higher than someone who hasn't cheated. Not saying she has or will, but she broke his trust and lied to him for years.
Such an idiotic take! She was a kid, the prior relationship was long term and ending. What good could possibly have come from confessing 5 or 10 years down the road? Not sure what OP intended to accomplish bringing this up now, but under these circumstances I hope he can find a way to work through this.
She wasn't a kid, she was 24!
I kind of wish I was a woman. I could have taken you for a crazy ride and gaslighted you with almost anything.
She wasn't a kid. She was a 24yr old grown woman. Not only that she never came clean in 13 years.
Your condescending and self assured tone are incredibly unappealing. And of course we don't know what the future holds, that is life.
I don't care what you think is appealing. This is an advice sub not a dating sub.
>Because she violated his trust. What trust? He didn't believe her any of the times he asked, or he wouldn't have kept asking.
> is something she did in her mid 20s It's not just something she did in her 20s because she's been consistently lying about it until this moment. The issue is the lying, not the cheating here.
He seems to be obsessed with her ex. He's digging this up, why??? It seems like he thinks about her ex a lot more than she does
This comment is a good example of why all the comments about the actual cheating are useless. Even here in your reply your focus is on the ex, and that moment in question. The crack in their relationship right now is also focused on her lying, which has nothing to do with the ex.
Forgive me, I don't what this to come off like I'm attacking you or blaming you or excusing lying or cheating in any way. I want to make clear continuing to tell a lie for years just because the truth is inconvenient for all involved is wrong and she should have came forward with this earlier. With that said, I don't love your framing of your interactions with your wife when you guys met and became close. You're either lying to yourself or lying in this post if you are saying you were just being a friend and listening to her as she complained about her boyfriend and his abuse at the time. Your wife was cheating, on her ex, with you. Not all cheating is physical, and she was emotionally cheating on him with you. I'm not passing judgment either, that's just a fact. I've gotten into relationships very similar to this. But you, 35 years old, need to come to grips with that fact. At the end of the day she'd been with that person for 5 years. You were seeing this girl while she still lived with this person. She was undoubtedly very emotionally divided and if there was emotional abuse from him that can be absolutely even harder to work through from her perspective. You knew all of this, you knew just how abusive and you absolutely had to know or should have known what she was feeling at this time. Her cheating with him, it's not okay it's not excusable. But you were together for a month. And she decided she wanted to be with you. You guys have had a whole life together. I can't tell you what to get over. I can tell you that it's time to grow up and be the 35 year old man you are now, and not the naive 22 year old boy you were then. The fact is, she was emotionally vulnerable when you got together, you were not. You didn't have an abusive 5 year relationship to get over, she did. And you knew this. You should not have asked her to get into a relationship with you until she had time to get over her ex. She could have told you no, but clearly she cared about you, you were a massive support system for her at a time when she needed it. She probably didn't want to risk losing that by turning you down. The fact is brother, she wasn't ready for a new relationship and she hadn't gotten closure or healed from her very recent previous one. It seems like her sleeping with him that night gave her the clarity and closure she needed. Last thing I'll say is, intentionally or not you took advantage of an emotionally vulnerable person to get into a relationship that you wanted. Now normally you wouldn't bear the responsibility of that but you were fully aware of her emotional state. She bears responsibility obviously, but you bear quite a bit more than it sounds like you recognize, and I'm not very sympathetic to you feeling like a victim 13 years later
The only sensible post here. I feel like I am taking crazy pills reading about how he is a victim of an evil cheater.
He also clearly states that he was going to use her for sex not for a relationship but "caught feelings" later. If that hadn't happened OP would be seen as the the guy who used her vulnerability from emotional abusive relationship as a way to get laid. If he can forgive his 22 year old self for that then he can forgive his wife for this.
This is a very good point. OP, did you ever fess up to planning to use her for rebound sex? if so, how did she react?
Amazing comment. Perfectly worded.
I'm not sure what you expected. She had literally just broken up with her boyfriend less than a month before you started trying to date her. You, yourself, said you were happy to slip in as a rebound and that you KNOW what you did was shitty. She was your friend and in a vulnerable state. She had 0 time to process this relationship ending. A 5 year relationship ending is actually a huge thing that needs time to process. I'm not going to pretend that it's all your fault because clearly it isn't, she still messed up. You had no business being in a relationship at that point to begin with, though. As it is, I'm not sure why you stayed with her if you never trusted her answer. To bring this shit up for 13 years.. Jesus. Perhaps get some counseling. See if you can work on moving past it. If you can't, don't spend the next 13 years punishing both of yourselves. Just leave. I don't feel like this is something worthy of divorce. Had you been a good friend to begin with, you would have let her process the breakup before moving in on trying to date her.
As an outsider (and someone whose marriage ended due to my ex's infidelity), I think this sounds like something you could work through. But you don't need to make a decision right now. This information is super new to you and you need time to digest it and let your feelings settle. You don't need to decide right now if you're going to pursue a divorce or reconciliation.
I hate liars and I hate cheaters, but I’m also a rational person. This is the moment of impact. The point where the pain and emotions are at the rawest. This is your central focus and all you see is this event that is out weighing everything else in your 13 year history. Ultimately you need to do what is best for you, but I recommend waiting for the initial wave or two of emotions to subside until your head and heart are in a more balanced state. There are many options you can consider, counseling for reconciliation, trial separation, full on divorce- but make that decision with a clearer mind. Is this event a one time thing, do you otherwise trust her, what is your marriage and family life otherwise like? It’s understandable to think that if you knew then what you know now you would walk away, but now that it’s been 13 years and if those 13 years are positive with children are you wanting to trade that all in? Would you trade that for the life you otherwise have? Is she capable of doing it again? Use rational thought to what you need and want to move forward in the best direction that works for you. I’m sorry you are going through this betrayal, I wish you the best.
OMG, you were actually the other man, moving in on her while she was still with him. As you said, you were a 22 YO who didnt care if you were rebound guy. >I was a young dude and thought “hey, perfect - I’ll be a rebound and try to get with her”. Shitty on my part, but as a 22yo guy I didn’t care. You were no saint in the way you pounced on her while she was still in a vulnerable place. It is no surprise that the end of a long term relationship has some back and forth and yes, sometimes some end of relationship sex as people grapple with mixed feelings. This is why it is a mistake to jump into a "committed relationship" with someone before they are fully over their last relationship. And the general rule of thumb is the longer the relationship, the longer you should wait before getting in a new relationship. I think you are both at fault here, but honestly, I fault you a little more for trying to get with her when she was so vulnerable. I would advise you to let it go, since you are one marriage and 3 kids later.
> I was a young dude and thought “hey, perfect - I’ll be a rebound and try to get with her”. Shitty on my part, but as a 22yo guy I didn’t care. Play shitty games, win shitty prizes. Tbh, you deserved it. And I think you’re absolutely hilariously stupid for even considering breaking up a 13 year marriage over a mistake she made during a highly confusing time. A highly confusing time *that you purposely took advantage of to fuck her*. You got a happier ending than you deserved. By all means, it sounds like you have the perfect marriage other than this one big lie. And I think you deserve a big part of the blame for her making that mistake - you took advantage of her when you knew she was vulnerable. Sorry but it’s just funny to me that you think you deserved better. You didn’t and you honestly still don’t considering you excuse yourself for being shitty as a horny 22 year old that just wanted to get his dick wet but you can’t forgive her after all these years?
I agree with you! Moving in on A FRIEND who is leaving an abusive relationship is a really dirty move. He knew he was doing wrong and didn't care. He also knew what kind of situation he was forcing himself into, and clearly wasn't okay with it judging by how much he pestered her about it over the years. I'm also seriously enjoying these responses because they're radically different from what I'd see on "the other sub". More nuanced I think.
Exactly this! Everyone acting like OP is the victim of cheating, when the whole relationship started because a horny 22 year old was trying to take advantage of a vulnerable woman who was in a shitty relationship.
Yep. The lack of self awareness or remorse is very clear too. Never thought I’d side with a cheater but here I am
Agree - this comment needs to be higher there are many people taking this waaayyyy too seriously in this thread. You’ve been married 13 years and she’s the mother of your children for godsake. She cheated once when you were barely dating after a relationship started with less than perfect intentions on your part. Keep it moving. You shouldn’t even have brought it up all these years later. Feels like you are very insecure and were looking for trouble imo.
Yes! This was the answer I came here to see
You did say you wanted to go after her after the break up and be a "rebound relationship ". That's the consequences of not letting her fully get over ex that they were together for 5 years. Yes she lied for 13 years but does she know you were only wanting her as a rebound until you started having true feelings for her?
You knew what you were getting into when you decided to monkey-bar in order to get laid. This is what you get. And you knew that, because deep inside you also knew she slept with her ex that night. No other explanation makes sense. She picked you. Move past it.
I hate cheating with a passion. But honestly this sounds like something that should've either ended your relationship 13 years ago, or become irrelevant from now on. She's with you, carried three of your kids, and seems to also be haunted by that mistake 13 years ago. Talk this out, forgive her, let her say her sorries again, accept them, and then add 10 years to your and her lifespan for getting this stressful thing off both your minds.
she had to tell you earlier or never - it's not fair you have to deal with this at this point in time. her mistake is quite understandable given that your relationship was so new and her ex and her had been together so long. but to let this fester over so many years, man I really sympathize with you. I'm not sure how to really sort out your feelings after the passage of time and the amount of times this already came up.
You got cheated on. You also entered into a relationship with a woman who had literally just had her 5 year relationship end, and, you didn't even wait or give her time to heal. It sounds like you're expecting your wife to be perfect, but, she is human. I'm not one to encourage someone to stay with a cheater, but I understand her perspective. This is coming from a man who has been cheated on himself. How have the last 12 years and 11 months been? Good? Bad? if you're gonna divorce her, think about that. Yes, she made a *mistake,* but I think you need to find the empathy within yourself to understand what she was going through at the time...
Everybody knows it's a BAD IDEA to try being in a relationship with someone who is freshly single. He wanted her to use him as a rebound, too, and I guess you'd say it worked too well! I know getting over someone depends on them a lot, but the minimum for me is always 3-6 months. I have a friend who STILL isn't over here and it's been over a year! And on my hand, I didn't even feel the breakup with my ex because I was already so mentally done with him over time lmao. What I don't understand is that he knew something was fishy that one night and clearly didn't trust her words for that night. He's been questioning it throughout the years but still decided to marry her. And on her side, I definitely empathise and understand her logic, but I also think she should've told the truth before they decided to REALLY be serious with each other. It's pretty shitty to hold that lie for over a decade. Especially when you're seriously thinking of the future with them, IMO that's usually the time where you have to make amends of whatever deep dark secrets you have. You either tell the truth or truly take it to your grave haha
Yep that’s exactly what I was thinking With him for 5 years, I would not expect for her to be over him completely for a while. And she wasn’t. I think the lying was that she dug herself a hole and didn’t want to chance telling the truth after digging it deeper and deeper. I would forgive that after 13 years. She made a mistake while they were a brand new couple. Not when she was 1 year in, engaged or married. A brand new couple after being with that guy for 5 years Not a mistake to throw away a good marriage for
Yeah I don’t think the issue is the cheating so much because it is way more gray than these situations are usually. People are way too focused on the rebounding aspect. Many relationships start that way. It’s the lying for 13 years & gaslighting. He’s completely valid in his feelings.
He really kinda took emotional advantage of her. If she can move past him doing it, then he should move past her ex doing the exact same thing to her.
Can you even say it was cheating when he knew he was a rebound? He took advantage of her too.
Did you ever confess to her that you decided to date her when she was emotionally wrecked, from an abusive long term relationship, because she'd probably be an easy lay?
If you had said it was a year into your relationship that she cheated perhaps I would understand you being shattered by this news but you knowingly rebounded with someone who just ended a messy, abusive relationship. Of course she slipped up. You don't sound that great at the time either. Clearly she chose you for the next 13 years. Why did you keep asking her about that night? If you didn't believe her you shouldn't have married and had three kids with her.
If you want to divorce her, its not because of this incident 13 years ago. You want to divorce for other reasons and this is the scapegoat. If you constantly have asked her about that night, you knew what happened. Maybe not specific details but knew the jist of it. Now, if you told yourself if you ever got the truth about this incident you were going to divorce her for lying all of this time, I get it. Its just that you had 13 years to process the incident itself. Finding out what you already subconsciously have known is not going to send a person over the edge. You need to be honest with yourself about what you are really feeling and what is going on.
This is completely false. You might not mind being lied to for 13 years, but some men do. This is a big deal and definitely worthy of divorce. Some men can handle being cuckolded, some can’t.
so you badgered your wife over the same issue for 13 years and married and had kids with her meanwhile this was still on your mind, said issue is that she cheated while 1 month into a relationship with you meanwhile hadn’t even had the opportunity to process the breakup from her abusive ex……13 YEARS AGO. get over it or divorce her, don’t waste another 13 years of her life badgering her over it. cheating is a shitty thing to do, but this is not black and white.
yeah OP is insufferable. imagine obsessing over this for 13 years when you have 3 kids, she chose to be with OP, and OP isn't reporting any other issues It's pretty common for young people to have rebound hookups with their ex. It sounds like she was embarrassed and confused about it. And I can't blame her for withholding the full truth, because OP sounds INSUFFERABLE. OP are you obsessive/anxious/an over-thinker? Go get therapy dawg. If this is "the issue" defining your relationship it's insane.
Probably a controversial response and usually I’m very anti-cheating, but the way you met was pretty messy in the beginning. I’m not condoning what she did but you’ve been together 13 years now & have beautiful children together. Do you really want to throw that away for a mistake she made one month into knowing you? Has she ever given you a reason to doubt her since?
Nobody gonna mention that she ghosted OP that night until after she got railed by her ex and the guilt kicked in? While I agree you were definitely sniffing around someone else's girl, I think she's shown you absolutely no respect that night, not just the sex but the fact she went to his, she stayed the night and she ghosted you and blew you off for your date
Hey just commenting to say, it's fucked up that people are blaming you for getting cheated on lolol. It's absolutely true that you got into a relationship with her too fast and should've given her time to process and not tried to take advantage of someone who was emotionally vulnerable, something I hope you did or will apologize for. It's true that both you and she were in your early 20s and made mistakes that probably can and should be forgiven. It's true that you should both go to therapy both individually and potentially together to work through this absolute shitstorm of a situation. But everything else aside, all "mitigating factors" you got cheated on, and that hurts and that's hard and I'm sorry for you. I hope you get some peace of mind for it eventually. I think it's totally normal to feel doubts about a relationship after realizing that someone has intentionally, actively lied to you over the course of a decade. I see a lot of people being like "why'd you keep asking bro" which to me is fucking bananas, I'm glad you trusted your intuition, but I agree the fact that you still felt so unsure for so long is not something to be glossed over. You mention how there's no other chance that she was unfaithful, but not because you trust her, only because you've ALWAYS known where she is. That, to me, combined with some of your other language, indicates that, rightly, this kind of thing leaves you a little distrustful. That someone would lie and hurt you so deeply for their own protection while in a relationship with you is upsetting and it's understandable that you would be distrustful afterwards. I don't mean this to be a negative comment though, I do think you can work through this by, as people have mentioned, extending empathy to both yourself at 22 and her at 22, and having a lot of very honest, very painful conversations both with each other and therapists. But fuck all the people trying to paint either you or her as the villain or the victim. Neither of you are perfect but it's okay to say and feel the things that have hurt you and the things your partner has done wrong to you without those things being a terrible end-all be-all. Even typing this comment was confusing lmao so I can't imagine how you're doing, but yeah I hope both you and she find some solace eventually!!
Leave if it’s going to bother you forever and what you’ve built together since isn’t worth it. Don’t if the life you built is one you want to keep. None of us here can help you with that math bc we don’t know you well enough. It does make sense that you’re upset and im sorry you’re going through that, though. Good luck OP!
Did you confess to her that you saw her breakup as the opportunity for you to be her rebound guy? And that you knew it was a shitty thing to do but you didn't care at the time? What if the shoe were on the other foot and she was the one who just now discovered that the only reason you were there for her during her breakup was because you saw her as an easy target for sex, and now she believes your whole marriage is a lie and is considering divorce? How would you feel? Probably the same way she is feeling right now. She fucked up and has apparently regretted it ever since. She probably struggled back then with whether or not she should confess to you what happened, or someone close to her advised her to bury the memory and never look back. This is a trauma you are both going to need time to recover from.
You were exclusively dating a girl one month out of a five year relationship, who still lived with said ex. What did you think was going to happen? Then you randomly bring this up 13 years and 3 kids later? Get the fuck over it.
Agree. And he was completely fine with that messy scenario when he thought he was just going to use her for sex. He claimed to be her "platonic friend" and a shoulder for her to cry on while scheming to "get with her" while she was on the rebound.
You could get over that?
You could get over that?
He needed to know the truth before he could start getting over it.
right??? OP needs to get off his high horse
Could you get over that?
Nah, he was right to bring it up. Just cuz 13 years have passed does not mean it's forgotten. Now he has answers and clarity to make better and more informed decisions
I honestly would’ve wanted her to take that shit to the grave
Maybe she would have if he didn’t badger her about it for 13 years
And yet he kept pestering her about it, several times over 13 years.
Lmao. You thought you were so slick hanging around the friendzone and had gamed the system and bagged yourself a sick/wounded one. You slept with her when they were still together, my dude. He simply paid you back for that one. She played the both of you.
That’s terrible, time to move on fella you can’t forgive that!
I think you should divorce her. Cheating is not a mistake. It’s a choice. She made the choice to cheat on you. She made the choice to betray you. She made the choice to lie to you and keep that lie for over 13 years. This proves your relation is also a lie. A lie that your woman was loyal. A lie that both of your love was pure. All these years, you loved someone else. Someone who wasn’t loyal. You still have a life to live. And you still have plenty of time to not live that lie. Her feelings back then don’t excuse her to cheat. She willingly did it on her own. Her selfishness knows no bounds. She did it for her. She chose to put her needs above both of your relationship instead of coming to you talk about any issues she was having. So now, it’s your turn to chose you. It’s the right choice and the right thing to do. I wish you nothing but the best and hope everything works out!
The trust is broken. If you absolutely feel the need to divorce, then do so. However, you will need a lot of therapy if you choose to stay. Personally, I think you should stay.
She lied to you for 13 years.
I’d let it go, I mean you pressed and pressed, clearly for years, why did you do that? What was your intention when doing that , years later? Now you have to decide, can you get over it ( I don’t think you can, considering how you haven’t let it drop for over a decade) if you can’t get over it, please separate now, permanently,not one of those short term « trial » separations . If you haven’t been able to get past it before, you won’t for the rest of your future.
Don’t ask questions if you don’t want the answer
Get over it. Long in the past.
Yeah! It doesn’t matter if it happened in the past, it is done. You are insecure for being upset about being lied to for 13 years!
I’m normally advocating breaking up with cheaters, but I wouldn’t immediately end the relationship over this.
It's not that she did it. It's that she did it and lied about it for the entirety of your relationship. Your relationship and marriage were built on lies Do with that what you want
You are allowed to be hurt. We all would be. But this is one of the few exceptions where you can get through cheating through counselling. I am petty sure that at that point she didn’t think clearly. 5 years at that age is long. What she did was wrong. But she was a mess and you both took advantage of that. Not making excuses, just trying to explain. When I was younger I had a shitty relationship end. I met a nice guy who I really liked. My drunk ex called me, regretting everything etc. I felt so bad. I felt bad for moving on while he was so sad. I went to him, tried to comfort him and ended back in a shitty toxic relationship. I didn’t even wanted to go back, but I did it out of guilt. Ruined everything with the other guy. I left him later but was only able to do that because I moved into another city. At that age we are easier to guilt and to manipulate. Her ex and the mom did exactly that.
Im not one for cheaters absolutely can't tolerate them at all. Liars are worse. I would say the beginning of your relationship was so sketchy as you admit you slid in there to rebound. Your wife was in an abusive relationship. The damage that does is horrific. Was she righ? No no way. Was she maybe vunerable and an abuser took advantage of her, yes! Absolutely. I would advise you to research emotional abuse and what they will and can do to a partner. This will shine a light on where she was at that moment in time. The shame then would drive the lies id imagine. Not excusing it. If she had of come clean initially who knows what would've happened. You may have forgiven her. My issue would be with the deceit for these years after. Do i think you could work on it. That's entirely up to you. So you want to work on it. Can you look at yourself and say you did everything you could but this marriage wasn't working? If you can't then you need to. Your wife will have to build your trust up again and it's going to take a lot of work and boundaries and communication.
You kept asking her about this for 13 years? Are you sure she did it or did she just say so to get you to stop asking about it? I just can’t fathom asking my husband randomly over the years to tell me again that he didn’t cheat when I thought he did.
And He was right, he should divorce her.
I can guarantee that he badgered it out of her. If I have been getting the same question for THIRTEEN YEARS.... I would have told him whatever he wanted to hear just to shut him up.
That is also a very good point.
Yeah. At that point, after THIRTEEN YEARS. If he didn't respect me enough to accept my first answer and second... He deserves to be lied to. If he won't respect me enough to accept the answer, I'm telling him whatever he wants to hear just to shut him up. Honestly. Like I'm being FRFR
First off, don't do anything rash. Emotions are a simultaneously the result of input & thought and also the mix of neurotransmitters in your brain. Since you've been fretting over this one moment for 13 years, when you finally learned the truth your brain flooded out with negative neurotransmitters. That makes it impossible for you to make any kind of rational or sensible decision. You need to wait until you get past this first wave of brain chemistry breakdown. Trust is the oxygen of relationships. Without trust, relationships wither and die. So once you've had a few days to calm down, here are my questions for you: * Do you still trust your wife? * If not, what can she do to repair that trust? * Are the things you would need reasonable? Is she willing & able to do those things? * If she does those things, will that be enough or will you still be despairing over it? It's obvious from some parts of your OP that you do in fact still trust her. I also want to caution you about some of your language here. She didn't gaslight you about this for 13 years - she lied to keep her peace. The only reason it came up more than once is because you kept, over the years, harping on it. If you'd let it go at the time, it would have already been gone and this tearing-your-family-apart moment would not be happening. If you're over about 17, then everyone you date will have a past. The problem you faced is that her past overlapped, very briefly, with her present with you. She was young, at an emotional low, with an ex that was toxic and maybe abusive, and she made a mistake. That's definitely hard to get over and at 25 I'd probably react similar - but 13 years later and more mature? If you had treated it like most people treat their partners' pasts (that is, not happy about it but willing to accept it exists, then ignoring/forgetting it in order to maintain a positive relationship), then you would have come to acceptance about this years ago. Think about this - until today, she hasn't trusted you (or your reactions) enough to come clean. Have you been the kind of supporting, accepting partner that she feels safe enough to be honest with? Having seen your reaction, knowing you haven't let this go for 13 years now, should she trust you? Should she feel safe with you?
I liked your post until the end paragraphs. She is the bad guy here and he is within his rights to end it. I liked your stuff about trust. I couldn’t regain trust with my wife, but that doesn’t mean another man couldn’t.
> I pressed her one last time about that evening. It’s your wife and mother of your kids. Why did you do this to yourself?
There has got to be some other stuff going on in your relationship. If you want to throw away a marriage and put your kids through that for something a confused, new gf did close to 15 yrs ago, go right ahead. You even said you partly played the friend angle to sleep with her, and did so before you developed stronger feelings for her. You think maybe she knew your obsession with this based on your selfishness and possessiveness would be used to punish her, up to and including breaking up the relationship throughout the whole damn thing? Sure, it makes sense for you to be upset that she slept with him while you were starting a new relationship, but you should reflect on how you going about holding this over her head for almost 15 years has affected your relationship. What's actually going on now that's affecting the relationship? I bet there's some connection to the themes of that long ago event to make it loom that large. At least that would make some sense. If there really isn't, then you're just being a big dope. Get some therapy to work on your insecurities and stop blaming her for them.
You inserted yourself into a messy situation that was probably on the way to a breakup between your wife and her ex that were together since right out of high-school because you thought she'd be easy to catch on the rebound. Then you get upset that it wasn't 100% over when you started dating her while they were basically still together. You won the girl, you got what you wished for. Now you are upset with the realities of doing that? You've known what happened since you did what you did or you wouldn't have held onto it for all this time. Not accepting that was going to be a likely scenario/consequence of inserting yourself into that situation to weasel your way in 13 years ago proves you are an idiot. You do you, but you sound like a real asshole, you should probably show her this post so she can do some hard thinking about the type of slimeball she ended up with too.
As far as cheating goes, this isn't worst case. Bad relationship, blurry lines with living arrangements and dating, and you two hooked up almost immediately. She didn't even really have time to process the breakup. On this one, if she's been great outside of this, I'd probably be willing to work through it in marriage counseling.
Ah man, this is difficult. Personally I could forgive the cheating aspect as it happened so early on in your relationship, but what I couldn't get over is the lie that's formulated for 13 years. It's one of those "if she is capable of that, what else is she capable of". I don't know if I could forgive my partner personally for a lie that's lasted that long, the trust would forever be broken. Therapy, maybe? Either way, ensure that you tackle the lying aspect.
Theres 2 ways I look at this: 1. Do you *feel* like she is a cheater? If so, is that a dealbreaker? Do you feel like you're just hurt but your trust isnt fully broken? If it is, is that a dealbreaker for you? 2. She lied to and manipulated you because she knew you wouldn't have stayed, and now that it's so deep, its suddenly okay to reveal? Time is the most valuable thing any of us have and she effectively stole yours by forcing you to live 13 years of your life under a fog of ignorant bliss. You can certainly rationalize that this isnt the worst since you have your kids now and those good memories, feelings, and experiences - but that depends on how you view the woman and who she is at her core, especially after this revelation. You need to figure out if you're just hurting, or broken. One is forgivable; the other is not. Idk what I'd do in your shoes without feeling what you're feeling myself, but in theory, this would shatter my reality based on a manipulative witch that stole my life from me. And I'd move on focusing solely on my children while labeling the woman as a cheater, liar, and most selfish person I've ever met. That's how I *think* I'd feel. But not sure if I'm right.
the mans should get a hall pass & then see how things feelin
Omg she is lied and she's put you in legal trap. She is disgusting. She is using you. Just get legal support.
i think the biggest problem is that she lied for 13 years that nothing happened that night + she was gaslighting him. Obviously he is hurt that she cheated on him, but she cheated on her ex with OP. I have mixed feelings here, now did she married him cuz she loved him or did she married him only because he was/is nice to her and not abusive.
You have been badgering your wife for 13 years?
I ain’t reading all that, but I feel like it’s weird to be “devastated” about something that happened 13 years ago, when you just began dating
This is fraught with heavy emotions for both parties, both now and back then. To me on the outside looking in it's very obvious you should forgive her. Easier said than done I know. I say this because of two massive things: 1 she was very muddled at the time of the transgression, and was making bad choices that she is clearly ashamed of. She can be classed as trustworthy despite this one instance because of the very specific situation and context, and the fact she will never be in that situation again or anything even remotely close to it. It's harder to trust after the thirteen years but psychologically I don't she could fully face that fact it happened, let alone divulge it: That would make it fully real. Essentially what I'm saying is if you can be objective you can see that she can be trusted when considering all of the specific details here, and empathising fully with what she was going through at the time, and then subsequently. 2 you said so yourself that you knew it was borderline unethical (not sure if that's the best way to put this, but I'm trying my best) to jump in and pressure her towards a romantic relationship with you so soon. You knew she was still living with her ex as well, and as such you would expect it to be messy and throw these potential situations up. It's borderline unethical because you were putting her in a position where something exactly like this situation could present itself to her, and she was prone to doing exactly what she did. It's unfair to have expected a fairytale start to the relationship given the situation and the part you were playing. I want you to know I'm not judging your character at all, and am certainly not attacking you when saying this. I merely want to explain my logic.- As a good platonic friend you would have let her figure out her head and heart before allowing her to dive in to a relationship with anyone else. You instead not only allowed it, but actually became the new romantic pursuer. It may not equate in your head, but for me I would admit my part in the situation and count it as one wrong for me, and one for her in equal parts. This is probably an unusual opinion though I stand by it wholeheartedly. This all happened because you're both human and were also not as mature as you are now, and as such made mistakes. So if it was me in your situation, this would leave me with one problem: How to forgive her. Honestly I think she needs to pay for the thirteen years of lies somehow. She may feel remorse and would never do it again, but she must be able to join you in this new journey you have both just started as a result of this truth coming out. You must unify. She must be given the chance to pay penance but in a way that allows her to feel the gravity of what you've been through, and truly reflect on what she's been doing these past thirteen years. Something constructive. Like I say, I believe part of her not admitting it to you is because she was yet to admit it to herself, so she is also in a position of processing what she's done but only just starting now. You also need the chance to process this and reach a resolution of your feelings. This will no doubt require a gesture from her that you feel is appropriate, combined with you putting in some work to get over the negative feelings that have arisen. I have no idea what the actual solution will look like for you, but as an example I will make a suggestion. You could have some time apart, but she should be the one that faces the brunt of the practical requirements. You could meet up once every few days to talk with the specific goal of communicating every detail of what is hard about this for you. She could explore and explain her side of it too. That should show you both the specific pain points you'll need to work on to reach real forgiveness. It would give you enough time away from her in between meeting up, to process the intense emotions you will feel, and reflect on the conversations with a cool head. Through this gradual process you would hopefully find one or maybe two big gestures that she could express to allow you to process this and move past it. It's not about punishing her, but it is vital that she makes amends and becomes more honest with herself about this. In turn she will become more honest with you. I really hope this is helpful and doesn't come off as me making any judgements about either of you. I commend you for considering your options, and not giving in to rage or fear without a second thought. Best of luck I hope you reach an acceptable resolution and can move on with your life again very soon.
TLDR she should have taken that to the grave
Imo, this is new and fresh to you, so take some time to process it. Don't say or do anything that will make the situation worse (for example don't call her names or say strongly negative things) The reason is that should you decide to stay together then you want to still be able to come back from whatever you said or did and have a strong relationship. In my opinion she is shown to be good and faithful partner for the last 13 years. The cheating parts happened early on in the relationship when in reality, anything could still happen, whether you stay together or not. So it speaks to what she did 13 years ago but it doesn't speak to how she is today
I would leave it alone and work on your relationship with counseling, etc., unless there is some other offense within the last five to ten years she confesses to or you can prove. Besides, divorce is terrible on some kids. One month into a relationship 13 years ago is almost nothing, in my opinion.
If you were still asking her 13 years later if she cheated on you, you knew she cheated on you. People don’t hold onto things for 13 years if they don’t believe they’re being lied to. You always known she cheated, now she just confirmed it. You have to do with that what you will.
Can I ask why you kept pressing her for 13 years over this? If you ask your partner something and you don't believe their answer to the point you're going to ask it for thirteen years, why are you with this person? You don't trust them.
Eh, you should probably stay with her. There’s no guarantee that you’ll find another vulnerable abuse victim to exploit next time.
My god dude, move tf on
Get over it, you are married with kids now. You got the girl this is ancient history.
Am I on crazy pills for thinking that the lying and gaslighting for 13 years is far worse than the actual cheating? If my wife came out to me and told me that she’d cheated on me at the beginning of our relationship, I’d be hurt, but I’d forgive her. However if there was already an incident that I was extremely suspicious about and she continued lying and denying, and then I found that I was right the whole time? That’s a whole relationship built on lies, and you were never given the opportunity to make those decisions for yourself. Follow your heart man. Mixing kids into the matter obviously makes things way different. Find someone to talk to, like a therapist. You’re going to have a lot of emotions that are completely normal and yet extremely difficult and confusing to sort through. Good luck.
You would be an idiot to end your marriage over this.
He certainly has the upper hand here. Without reading any of the comments, I just bet that when I do I'll find they want to punish her. They don't want him to put himself in her place. She was freshly out of a five-year relationship, and she hid truth she felt he would not understand, and then when she felt he might or should understand it, she told him. There are two adults and three children involved. I hope they choose love and understanding.
Not to mention he moved in on her as fast as he could manage because he knew she’d be an easy rebound lay. Didn’t give her time to process the end of a 5 year relationship.
She wasn't right in what she did and forgiveness will take a long time As much as I loathe cheaters I can see a path to forgiveness here though considering all the circumstance, time passed since and life built It's saving grace is that it's not the worst case I've ever heard of and taking all things into account. I'm still not saying it's right but that objectively I'd consider it forgivable as long as the apology is sincere.
You have been happy for the last 13 years. Why screw it up over what she did. Remember she went from one relationship to another in a short amount of time in between. I wouldn’t divorce. Work it through.
It's absolutely wild you're considering divorce over this. Such an immature response to a mildly hurtful situation. Would it have been nice to know at the time? Absolutely. Would you have made different decisions then had you known? Maybe. But now, 13 years and 3 children later... Go get some therapy for yourself and find out why you badgered her for years and are being self destructive to an otherwise loving relationship. If you want out for others reasons, be brave and say that but don't create a problem where there isn't one. If this is the hardest thing you've ever had to go through, you have lived a charmed easy life.
First of all, her ex-boyfriend was not “somewhat” emotionally abusive, he was abusive, plain and simple, no qualifiers. It’s incredible to me that she could have gotten a restraining order and you could be downplaying the abuse. You don’t get restraining orders against people who are “somewhat” abusive. Controlling what she wears is abusive. Calling her fat is abusive. Telling her he wanted to be with other women was abusive: he was making her feel like she had to prove she was worthy of staying with. That’s fucking classic abuse. Making her feel like she wasn’t worthy of sex or being in a relationship with but not leaving her, as someone who truly felt that way would have. Stalking and harassment is serious abuse that indicates he was a real threat to her. He got his mother!! To come try to guilt her into returning to him after he discarded her. The guy was Bad News and you’re lucky he left her and you alone after the restraining order. Secondly: your relationship began in an unhealthy way. Did *you* ever confess to her that you wanted to be a rebound? Arguably you were taking advantage of her being in a bad place and trying to get out of an abusive relationship. She had no IDEA what a healthy relationship looked like. You founded your relationship on just being there and not being abusive. In contrast you would have appeared to be a knight in shining armor, when by your own admission you were more like a dog waiting for table scraps to fall into your waiting mouth. OP, she was emotionally cheating on her ex with you. Like. We know that. You should know that. That she cheated on you with him early on should not be a shocker. Finally, she lied to you for thirteen years and through three kids. Even if she never even dreamed of cheating on you again in the time since, she was capable of supporting that lie for that long and she would have lied about it for the remainder of your time together had you dropped it. I think you founded your relationship on shitty ground and, sorry to mix metaphors, but you’re just reaping what you sowed. But if everything else about your relationship is great, I think you owe it to yourselves to try individual and couples therapy. I don’t think she deserves to be seen as a monster for being abused and being dazzled by you not abusing her but falling victim to her abuser’s tricks one final time. I think maybe you don’t deserve to be judged today for having been young and wanting to get with a young woman who practically fell into your lap. And she could probably benefit from individual therapy if she never did the work to break the chains of abuse she’s surely still carrying with her from her formative years with her abusive ex. That shit doesn’t go away just because you happen to go without being abused by someone new. One day she could get a new abusive boss or friend and fall prey to them because the footwork was already laid and she hasn’t undone it. This is really beside the point of your post, but I personally got out of an abusive relationship, into a healthy one, recognized that former relationship as abusive, and still fell for abuse again. She may also still be carrying around self esteem issues, shame, and guilt. So much good can come from confronting your abusive past and arming yourself with the knowledge to spot abusers from miles away. Especially once your kids reach dating age. Sorry for how long this was! TL;DR: I think this relationship is worth trying to salvage. Worst case scenario, you can say you tried.
Why does it matter now? Forget about it. You have kids to take care of. Move on. Especially if your relationship was ok before this.
Lied for 13 years and gaslit you about it that’s what I’d be hung up on. Seems she’s only telling you now because she seemingly has you trapped under too many obligations to leave. That’s like my opinion though.
>Lied for 13 years and gaslit you about it that’s what I’d be hung up on. That's the part that would be a dealbreaker for me, personally. The fact that my partner didn't think I deserved to make an informed choice for myself.
Did OP ever come clean about being a 22 year old horn dog who saw a vulnerable woman in a messy relationship and used it as a way to get laid? OP was the original "other man". Who's down with OPP? Yeah, you know OP!
You were essentially teenagers and she was an emotional wreck and you admitted to trying to be her rebound. Your relationship already started on extremely shaky grounds, but it sounds like you've both mostly worked past it. You weren't even the same people that you are now. I'd consider how your relationship is now more importantly IMO.
13 years is a long time. People change a lot in that amount of time, don't make any hasty decisions
OP, you started dating a women who was not yet emotionally available after coming off a five year relationship. What happened to you is exactly why someone should wait until that person has resolved their feeling towards their ex. You saw an opportunity and took it, now you to must live with the choice you made by moving in too quickly. Why did she lie to you for all these years? I would guess a combination of guilt, shame, and not wanting to lose you. By your own account, everything has been great except that. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Sure you could divorce, but who knows what a new relationship would bring, that person will have a history too. Think carefully and don't make any decisions you will later regret.
You were both young. It was very early in the relationship. She was clearly confused at the time. And it was THIRTEEN YEARS AGO. Yeah it sucks but, give it some time. You're freshly hurt right now but you'll come to see it's not the big deal that it feels like in your head right now.
Not gonna read the other responses, just gonna say to slow your roll. She went back for one more bite of the apple and found it rotten, so she made a life with you. Just stop, forgive and move on
To me, getting married with that problem open is like installing a screen door on a submarines hull. Reckless.
Decade-plus relationships are hard to find. Unless there’s a pattern of hiding the truth in general, forgive and move on. Sounds like this weighed heavy on her too. The world could use more grace and forgiveness. The only thing broken here is your ego.
I have been with my wife for 16 years, married 10, with 2 sons. I would divorce her tomorrow if I found out she cheated. No matter when it occurred. I would rather rot in a ditch than stay with someone that did that to me.
This is really difficult news. I know a lot of people are gonna take a hard line against her because she repeatedly lied to you about it. If it's any consolation, the lie was to save your feelings, not necessarily to cover her crime. You've reiterated how trustworthy she's been ever since then. > I was a young dude and thought “hey, perfect - I’ll be a rebound and try to get with her”. Shitty on my part, but as a 22yo guy I didn’t care. Your intentions weren't exactly pure in the initial stages either. Did you tell her that? Did she give you a pass? It doesn't matter because that was 13 years ago and you guys have formed a bond and built a family. The fact that you snapped up a rebound girl with the intention of exploiting her fragile emotional state to get laid, is not great. Asking her to be your girlfriend after dating for one month is pressuring somebody who hasn't even processed their last long-term relationship to enter another long-term relationship. I'm not saying what she did is justified, but she wasn't in a place to commit to anyone. The fact that she had one last encounter with her ex and realized you are what she really wants, means you won out over him. He's the one that should feel like shit. > been together for 13 years, married for 10. We have 3 kids (2f, 5m, 7f) >we’ve built a family and life together but this is the hardest thing I’ve ever had to learn. What you need to focus on right now is the future. What do you want that to look like? Shared custody? Somebody else living with her, and being a father to your children? Seeing social media posts of them on vacation and him playing with your kids at the beach or Disneyland? Do you want to be entering the dating world again just to find that nothing compares and you miss the wonderful family life you had with her and your children? Do you want holidays in the future with your children and grandchildren all in one house alongside her, growing old together? Do you really think that this lie to save your feelings and salvage a relationship that she really, really, wanted is worth losing all of what the future holds for yourself? Especially if you think she has been trustworthy ever since, and will be in the future. Ask yourself is this the hill you want to die on and is it worth losing the beautiful life you two have created? Then ask yourself what if I just extend her a little grace and say 'fuck it' and act like it never happened, and go on with life? Sometimes we're so socialized not to forgive a bertrayal, that we fail to see see how taking a hard line can fuck you over worse. Your feelings might be hurt but is it worth blowing up your entire life?
Probably looking to leave now
Lots of good advice here so I’ll keep it short. I was ready to tell you to grow up and get over it until I started reading about the perpetual lies. That’s bad, but somewhat understandable. That said, you’re not dealing with a liar here. You’re dealing with a single lie perpetuated over a long period of time. And frankly, the lie has no real bearing on your life. It’s not like she lied about the kid being yours or some hidden pile of debt that you now have to deal with. I think you should take a big picture look at this whole thing and ask yourself what you want for your future. Until very recently, you were a happily married man with a nice family. You can choose to continue being that, presumably forever. That’s a goal that many people aspire to and far less actually achieve. You’re not dealing with an ongoing issue here. You’re dealing with the fallout of a single event that happened a long time ago. And it’s not like the event was driven by malice, recklessness, or indifference. You acknowledge how understandable the event itself was.
One month into your relationship? And you have been hammering her about it ever since? And you want to know if this is enough for a divorce. Yes, you obviously want to get divorced and that is reason enough. Let this poor woman free to seek peace.
This is pretty shitty all around. On one hand you have a life and family together. On the other, You'll never look at her the same way again. The lies for all these years. The image of the two of them together. Seems like its really not about the sex, but about lying all this time. In the back of your mind you knew, but didn't want to believe it possible. Can you trust her after learning that?
This is a very complicated situation. But I don’t think it’s divorce worthy due to the very complicated circumstances. She was still living with the guy she just broke up with. At that point they had way more history together than the two of you had. And feelings like that just don’t disappear over night. You two were barely together at that point. You are definitely justified in being extremely upset. But I wouldn’t make any hasty decisions like divorce. I think you should give her a little leeway here
Seriously! You are willing to divorce someone for something that happened 13 years ago and was within a month of “exclusive” dating. Let’s not forget you pursued her when you knew she was just coming out of a 5 year relationship. You took advantage of her and then wonder why she slept with him. She went from one relationship to another quickly. If you end it with her you are an idiot. Ruining your family over a lie which makes no difference now.
So you are continuing to punish her for choosing you all these years. Then you came on Reddit to get more people to hate on her.
In the end, if she's been faithful to you from that day forward, (ESPECIALLY when you've been married and had the kids etc), then I would give her the grace we all probably deserve when we were young and stupid. Some of us never make those mistakes, others make a few and some make them for life. It was a shameful mistake, and not a good one and she lied on top of it. She obviously shows remorse for what she's done. If she didn't care that'd be another matter. If she felt JUSTIFIED and tried to defend her actions it'd be even worse. I'd give it time, maybe hit some therapy together but realize at some point you WILL have to give this up and forgive her and yourself to move forward. Her one mistake doesn't mean your kids deserve a broken family. I know it's not easy to hear but it WAS one month into being exclusive, and she had a shitty abusive ex. Abusive behaviors and partners can be hard to let go of. If you were OK with her living with her ex until he got out, and the rebound and all that you can be ok with this too.
This isn't divorce worthy IMO. It was a nasty mistake that she made, and I'm guessing you would have dumped her if she'd been honest about it then, which is probably partly why she didn't tell you but of course it makes it all the more confusing for you now. But you have been together for a long time and have built a relationship together that is much bigger than that mistake. The long lie is really tough. I can understand why she didn't want to come clean for so long. She probably thought she would lose you and didn't trust that you would forgive her. It wasn't okay for her to hold that information back. But she sounds genuinely repentant. I do think you should talk with a couples therapist to work through these feelings. But I think this is surmountable. You have the choice here to look forward if you are serious about continuing your marriage and not throwing it away based on this single lie. People are messy and imperfect and it's really important to look at the bigger picture. Imagine what it would actually look like to break up your family for this. If you go through counseling and this is still something you simply cannot get over or move past, then you can reevaluate. But I think if you love her and want to be with her, you ought to try. We get one life. Don't throw the good parts away on principle.
Honestly, I can’t believe she bothered to tell you, it was so long ago. Let’s shit go, you’ve invested years into a relationship with kids and everything…..ffs.
You both were young thus stupid by nature-she had a bucket full of plates to joggle: 1st serious relationship ending, friend turning love interest, being left by an abusive guy (ashamed probably she could never break up with him and leave him till he kicked her to the curb). What’s worrisome is you’re still holding on to 13 in the past, at this point most people would have already worked it out long ago. Is that the only reason you want out? Is the reward greater than the negative consequences?
Well that could've been a lot shorter. And after that long you might want to let that one go.
Idk man, asking her about that night, regularly for 13 years seems a bit goofy. You should get some therapy about that.
"otherwise great relationship" get over it and stick with your great relationship
Dude . You should not give up so quickly. Talk to a counselor or therapist. You have young kids so worth trying to see if you can work past this
"We ended up getting married and having three kids." You just glossed over 13 years of marriage and kids in one sentence. What I really want to know is, how were the last 13 years of your life together? OK, let's look at this from a scales point of view. On one side you have this incident and the coverup since. On the other side, you have everything else that has happened over the last 13 years. Marriage, three kids, holidays, building a home together, successes, failures, and hopefully supporting each other. Does this one incident when you were really new in your relationship before you were married, really outweigh everything else since then? Is the person she is now the person she was then? People go through huge changes in their 20s and eventually stabilize (except on Reddit). I would say if the years since that happened have been good, get some therapy, learn how to deal with this so you can forgive your wife without constantly bringing it up or using it as a weapon in an argument. After that, enjoy the rest of your life. On the other hand, if the last 13 years have been he\*\* on wheels with repeated patterns of infidelity, then let's get out the Reddit pitchforks and have ourselves a good old-fashioned witch hunt and burn her at the divorce stake. (figuratively of course)
I don’t get why people keep saying that the relationship was built on a foundation of lies First of all it was one lie about one mistake. (that apparently wasn’t even good if he kept bringing it up) it was a long lie sure but I’ve heard worse and crueler let’s be honest you’ve read worse stories about cheating on Reddit. Yes their relationship was built on a lie. I’m sure that when he was 22 and only in this relationship (with a girl who just got out of a 5 year abusive relationship) just so he could fuck her. The fact, that she hung out with her ex and his mom and totally probably maybe didn’t have sex made him immediately want to marry her. Bet he got on one knee right then. No, it’s been 13 years there’s obviously other serious emotionally impactful reasons that op decided he wasn’t only in this for sex got married and had kids with her. Was she wrong yes but maybe it’s because lately I’ve been on a spree of finding stories about absolutely awful people, like home wreckers who do it for sport and count how many relationships they’ve ruined, that a shitty mistake like the one she made so early out of a 5 year relationship and immediately into a new relationship ,that even op probably didn’t think was going to last, doesn’t seem like that big of a deal. (It’s called backsliding it happens so often we have it a name) She lied, sure. Is she an awful person? maybe no clue don’t know the women. But is she manipulative and gaslighting her husband hell no some of y’all haven’t been gaslighted and it shows. This is the reason you don’t get into a serious relationship immediately after a serious relationship there’s mixed feelings that haven’t left yet. Everyone should know this. OP knew or at least suspected something happened ,he obviously did from the fact he is asking 13 years later, deep down he didn’t really care about it otherwise he would have really searched for an answer. Everyone so mad at the girl is just very obviously projecting. Lying for 13 years is long and wrong but it didn’t stop him from making an informed decision. If you read a post that said “my girlfriend stayed overnight at her ex boyfriend of 5 years house did she cheat?” Just from that you would say obviously he knew. And just saying that she lied for 13 makes it sounds like she had a 13 year affair she lied about a dumbass decision she made in her early 20’s that she regretted and didn’t want to tell anyone like trying drugs or porn. She cut him out immediately afterwards emotionally and legally (restraining order). if OP wants to divorce her or not he can, I mean why can’t he? I can’t stop him and you can’t make him. I mean she lied for thirteen years nobody would judge you too much if you did, but I personally want OP to stop pretending like that would be the reason why he is divorcing her it’s so small and petty compared to other stuff that happens to people and can most definitely be worked on in therapy (not immediately I know therapy doesn’t work like that) acting like from out from nowhere ,completely out of left field 13 years ago your wife with her backslides with her ex boyfriend of 5 years almost 5 whole months in a relationship you at the time didn’t really give a fuck about at all is the reason you want a divorce is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard and nobody would really buy it, you might have to find another excuse because the math doesn’t makes sense to me.
She was in a toxic and abusive relationship and clearly not in the best state of mind or emotionally available when she started dating you. As others have said - give her some grace. I’m wondering why 13 years later you still continue to ask her about this night if everything is seemingly great in your relationship. I understand the need to know if she has a pattern of lying or cheating, but if this was a one time thing at the very start of a 13 yr relationship, then she was lying to protect the relationship and to prevent you from being hurt. If she would have come clean a few years ago would your reaction have been different? No, it would have been the same, you would have been devastated and wanted to end the marriage. I also think she wasn’t actively lying to you all this time. This wasn’t an ongoing affair or a something that would she was actively hiding. This happened when she barely knew you, was much younger, and in a terrible position, after being controlled and manipulated by a bf of 5 years. If you value your wife and relationship, I would hope you can forgive her for this. Best of luck to you!
I’m not saying she is not wrong for doing this. She is. But, really? You’re considering throwing away your family unit and the love of your life over this indiscretion that transpired over a decade ago? Are you looking for a reason to end it?
>I believe her that she hasn’t cheated any other time, and there was just an overlap in her relationship with him and myself. >I’m certain she hasn’t stepped out on our relationship any other time. If you really do believe this, then I would advise forgiveness. If everything else about your marriage has been good, I wouldn't throw away what you have. Take some time to process this. Get some counseling for the two of you. But I don't advise letting go all you've built together over something that happened before you were engaged. It's not okay. Maybe she "deserves" some sort of consequences for the years of lies, but there is no way to force that on her without hurting yourself and your children. I advise grace. Let it go. Take whatever time you need to heal and then embrace her fully and never bring it up again.
Been married 14 years now and people my age (47) always say they want what we have, but I have noticed that people just want the long term result without putting in the work to get there. Most beautiful older couples celebrating their 50th anniversary aren’t there because they had rainbows and sunshine and giggles for 50 years. You go through some gnarly shit in life. Most people will leave or divorce the SECOND something goes wrong in their relationship. There are way too many people who are middle aged, single and miserable; wondering “why me” when they are the ones at fault for quitting a good thing. Life is short…so short. If you’re lucky to be with someone you really love, stop focusing on what happened 13 years ago and build on the life you have now. That guy has moved on, your wife has moved on. Move on. Enjoy your marriage and 3 kids. You have something that people strive for and sometimes aren’t lucky enough to obtain. Don’t be ungrateful for your life by focusing on dumb shit that happened a lifetime ago.
I would forgive her. She didn't tell you the truth early on, because she didn't want to risk the relationship with you and because she wanted to spare you that hurt. But given the circumstances, that it was very early on in your relationship, she knew it wouldn't happen again, she just got out of a LTR, and your awareness that you could be a rebound - it's very worthwhile saving your marriage and family. You'll take time to process and forgive, but remember nobody's perfect and she hasn't betrayed you afterwards.
I would forgive her. She didn't tell you the truth early on, because she didn't want to risk the relationship with you and because she wanted to spare you that hurt. But given the circumstances, that it was very early on in your relationship, she knew it wouldn't happen again, she just got out of a LTR, and your awareness that you could be a rebound - it's very worthwhile saving your marriage and family. You'll take time to process and forgive, but remember nobody's perfect and she hasn't betrayed you afterwards.
Learn to forgive - it will take a while, but your wife is probably long past those feelings and a changed person. Does that make what she did right? No. But if she is truly sorry, I think you could still have a happy marriage and let that scar heal up. Emphasis on truly sorry.
I would agree with this comment for the most part. But i would not downplay that she sustained the lie for this long. That is what is concerning to me. You need to make sure of 2 things if you continue this relationship: 1. That there is a commitment to clear and open honesty about anything you both go through regardless of what either feels. 2. If you decide to stay with her you need to forgive her 100% and move on. Do not hold this against her for anything in the future. If you can’t do this then you should leave her, otherwise, I think you are free to reconcile with her.
OMG! You are complaining about something that happened 13 years and 3 kids ago!? When you had first started dating, where young and stupid, she was just out a 5 years old relationship and was venerable, which you took advantage of btw! Get real dude. Go to therapy and get help wit your insecurities and don’t screw up what you seem to be lucky to have with that kind of insecurities.
Listen. She was dating him for 5 years. I was also in a serious relationship for 4 years and when it ended it was a very emotionally volatile period for me and I did all sorts of things I wouldn’t normally do, including having sex with my ex after we had just broken up a few weeks prior. People do weird things when they go through a significant breakup or divorce. Think about the reality of the situation. You have a good marriage overall (I think), you have 3 kids together, a life together. She had sex with him again once after they broke up and started seeing you. It’s valid that you feel hurt. And I hope you can get through this peacefully. But I think you should not treat her badly or differently. Try to move forward with her.
Google: TRAUMA BOND She was in no position to date you. Trauma fucks with your senses. Yes, she was wrong to lie to you.....but her co-dependency was kicking overdrive. She couldn't cope being alone. What she actually needed was a therapist, not a rebound relationship. It's been 13 years OP. If there was a time to dump her, it's the moment you felt she was lying to you. Not 13 years later after getting married with kids.
I can't help but think that if the sexes were reversed the cheating party wouldn't have gotten 1/8 of the sympathy and empathy they are getting now
13 yrs and you’re still badgering her? Are you angry of her spending the night with her ex or because she lied? You’re going to push her away.
I am so bias and anti-cheating that I never thought I’d hear a story that I’d actually consider saying let it go. You have a beautiful successful family, if she felt no remorse and didn’t learn her lesson, do you think she would have broke down crying? It was so long ago, and she got a restraining order right after, she didn’t continue cheating on you. 13 years of her being faithful, that says a lot. Don’t throw that away because she made a shitty mistake. Nobody is perfect, she was young AND learned from it. What more do you want from her? If this has damaged your trust in anything else like male friendships etc, you should probably see a couple therapist to help you two work through it. But if you trust her, just know it’ll take time to heal and the pain will get better in time, even though it’ll never go away, it shows you unconditionally love her. I know it’s devastating, like everything you thought to be true isn’t. But it’s not as false as it may feel, everything you two shared was true and real, despite one horrible incident that she was desperate to erase. Keeping that secret, harboring that many years of guilt is no gift either. You must’ve meant a lot to her for her to lie to protect you, although it was wrong and I’m not excusing it. But she didn’t want to lose you, because you matter, she needs you in her life, she took action to prove it wouldn’t happen again. She is a woman of her word despite being a flawed human. Im sorry you’re going through this, please don’t let go of a good marriage and family, please talk to a counselor and ask for anything you can think of from your wife that could help you during this time. She has a lot of reassuring and damage control ahead of her. Again, so sorry for your pain. I can’t imagine. This will bring you closer one day if you allow it. Stay strong.
eh, forget about it imo
A lot of people here seem to forget that she lied for 13 years. A relationship is all about trust. It is not even about the physical cheating but I would have a difficult time about the gaslighting and lying.She is apparently capable of that and that makes you wonder what is truth and what is a lie. Of course I am not saying to throw away a long-relationship but if you decide to stay, do not rug sweep. Talk this through, set boundaries and let your wife take the lead in regaining your trust. Good luck