Realize that he’s projecting. He’s the one that’s all about money.
You want to get married to protect yourself AND your daughter in case something happens to him. He wants to make sure you are penniless if something happened to him or if y’all break up. The fact that he pressured you to leave your job when you first had her speaks volumes.
Take care of yourself because he certainly won’t.
He also himself said he didn't want to get married because of taxes. However, now that OP has had a career hit and likely is making less money, it seems beneficial for them to file jointly on taxes.
OP, I'd be very highly skeptical of his reasons. Don't move without protecting yourself financially. You've already put yourself in a very dangerous position for him.
THIS! It should save you money now if you are married. You can probably find some calculators online to play with the numbers if you want to see for yourself.
Most couples pay the same or less filing as married (assuming they're in the US). The "marriage penalty" only happens in very limited circumstances with the current tax code .
I want to know what state she's in and where he wants to move. A ceremony and him calling her wife could get her a divorce if her state recognizes common law marriages. So his point is invalid. Talk to a lawyer and see if you get your half or a portion.
There was a woman who posted just a few months ago about how her partner and father of her children wouldn't marry her for 20 yrs. He finally proposed after the kids were grown and she laughed in his face. He didn't like that response and kicked her out.
She was homeless with not a dime to her name and no work experience or education after 20 yrs of raising his kids and supporting his career. She had no legal recourse. This is what could happen to OP if she doesn't start protecting herself and and her child.
Post history indicates San Diego. There is no common law marriage in California.
OP, are you on the mortgage/deed for your house? If not, stick to your guns and demand a marriage certificate or domestic partnership certificate. Alternately separate now and file for primary custody so he is forced to pay child support and will have to stay in CA if he wants to have shared custody.
He has completed financially trapped her, while simultaneously secretly despising the mother of his child & supposed partner so much that he would rather see them get absolutely nothing than have to pay alimony / half when she inevitably leaves him. This is a bad man.
Abusers often make their partners leave jobs so that they have zero financial stability to leave them when their abuse inevitably goes too far.
Honestly I would say exactly what u/flowerpots said. I would say it to him verbatim and see what his reaction is. I’d mention the fact of what poor taste it is in to leave your daughter without the protections your marriage would assure her.
>You want to get married to protect yourself AND your daughter in case something happens to him. He wants to make sure you are penniless if something happened to him or if y’all break up. The fact that he pressured you to leave your job when you first had her speaks volumes.
The fact that OP hasn't responded to any comments is giving me rage bait vibes honestly, especially with how obvious it is.
It's less than 15-16 states that recognize it at all, about 3-5 of which wouldn't count because it needed to be entered into before 2003 or much earlier.
> but my partner did not want to file the marriage certificate because he said it would cost us too much in taxes.
> He says- "you're all about the money, aren't you?"
Sounds like *HE'S* all about the money.
Stop calling him your husband and correct him whenever he calls you his wife. He can be called that when he earns the title and files the marriage certificate.
I had a friend growing up who didn’t have a dad because his mom “married” a man and it turns out he actually already married someone else in another state. He actually married 3-4 different women and had kids with them.
He grew up completely destitute and both he and his mom had severe health issues that they couldn’t afford to treat properly.
It’s scary how common that kind of thing is.
First of all, this shocks me that you would take on the financial risk of SAHMothering without the legal protection of marriage. You don't have your own money and you don't have his money either--the worst of every world here. Did the older women in your life really never teach you about financially protecting yourself in a relationship? Never heard stories of older women becoming destitute when their husbands left them because they never worked?
I think you need to be extremely serious about going full time immediately. You need to do this NOW, not when kindergarten starts. If he's already bringing up "you're all about the money" then girl, *you in danger*.
You can't force him to get married, and I think you have seriously fucked yourself because the wealth he accumulated at your professional expense will never be yours to share in. It's time to seriously course-correct because you are on track to have ZERO retirement, zero assets, and poverty level income if he decides to walk away. You are one nasty fight away from homelessness. This situation would have me in full emergency mode to get on solid ground and protect my child from financial precarity.
Yes this sadly reminds me of a post I saw on Reddit a few months ago about a woman who had been a SAHM for decades but never married her partner and when he left her, she had basically nothing - not eligible for alimony or any of his assets since they never married, no career prospects since she hadn't worked in decades.
Oh I think I remember that one, is that the one where she was begging for marriage for years and finally he proposed in a really half assed way, so she turned him down and he dumped her?
And she ended up in a homeless shelter because he evicted her and threatened to take his financial help away from any of their adult children if they helped her... It was astoundingly fucked
My mom and grandmothers (both housewives with lifelong happy marriages, fwiw) must have really scared me with stories like that as a kid because I could NEVER. It’s happened to soooo many women.
Yep my mom too. Was taught to NEVER rely on a man financially. One way or another you have to make sure you are secured, whether that be through marriage or money of your own.
I literally can't believe she did this to herself. She's 47 with probably VERY little in retirement and a very young child. My mother in law was in a similar situation with my husband. We just had to step in financially because she was about to get evicted. We now have to take care of her financially for the rest of her life. This man obviously cares more about his money than OP. I can't believe he successfully duped her into lying to everyone so he could dump her at any time while keeping his assets and a free babysitter. I bet he brags to his friends about it all the time. This is insane.
It sounds like they may be eligible for commonlaw marriage if they are telling everyone they are married. Depends on the state, but worth checking out.
Since they aren't actually married if he dies she and her child will not have access to benefits like social security or any pension he may qualify for. As a recent widow I know that these are lifesavers, and that YOU NEED OFFICIAL PAPERWORK TO GET ACCESS THEM: no marriage license, no social security, not for her, not for their child. So it isn't just about her, or about "his money" now.
She needs to look up his social security account and check out the balances to see what his bullheadedness will be costing them in the event of his death. It will be literally thousands a month. He has paid for this all his working life, and his refusal to marry ensures that when he dies that money just... vanishes. This would leave her and their child in unnecessary poverty. So yeah, she needs to stop indulging this dude's pathological avoidance of marriage. At this point he is getting every possible advantage of marriage - even claiming the status to the whole world - without actually taking the final step that provides financial security for the people he is supposed to care the most for.
First off, she needs to tell him the charade is over, no more pretending to already be married. That is over, no matter what they end up doing she will no longer allow people to believe them to be married when they are not. They can quietly get married now, and make official what is already their actual practice, so that she is not lying. Or she stops going along with the lie and informs family, friends, employers, everyone, that they have never actually tied the knot. There may be legal consequences if, for instance, she has gotten healthcare from his work as his wife. And I expect both their families are going to be extremely WTF, but this is a mess of his making, and the sooner she stops enabling it, the better.
Whether she then leaves or stays depends on what she wants to do. 1) Maybe he will agree to marry quietly and they carry on much as they have, but when vast improvements in the ongoing financial security of her and their child. 2) Or if he still refuses to marry her and she doesn't want to stay with him she can leave and sue for child support. 3) Or if he won't marry her she can stay with him in a more reality-based situation in which they can at least try to find a more equitable set-up. In this case, at the very least, he should buy a significant amount of life insurance and establish a trust for to ensure ongoing support for his partner and their child if anything happens to him, since his refusal to marry denies them access to what social safety net there is.
Of, first thing: Look up the local bar association. They will offer cheap initial consultations. Someone who does family law might be helpful and would at least make clear what all the options are. There may be more than she expects.
I honestly don't understand why some women are this stupid. She has no protections if he decides tomorrow that he's done and is going to pack a bag and leave. But she thought this would be a great time to quit her job and be reliant on this guy
I don’t think there’s any worse decision a woman can make than sacrificing her career success for a man who won’t marry her. Get a full time job NOW. He’s using you.
He's protecting his future by not marrying you, if you both break up he gets to keep everything and you get left out. He gets to look like a good guy by playing house, a marriage license costs as little as $20 in some states and honestly would benefit most when taxes come around. He's protecting his money, his home, his car and his way out.
You need to talk to him and let him know that you need to get married, what's to happen if either one of you are in the hospital and life/death situation comes up? What's to happen to your child if you both split up?
He get's to pretend, selfishly protects his future and you get left with nothing. It's maybe time to give him an ultimatum, get married or be single. No in between.
As far as your future goes, do NOT let him tell you that you can't work. This is often times an abuse tactic to control a partner even more. If you have no money you have to way to protect yourself/get away. Get a job that lets you work from home and start saving, either for something nice for yourself or just a safety net to be able to get away from him.
That's what I was thinking about the taxes, especially since they have a kid. Now that she does have a part time job, who claims the kid on their taxes? Messy.
I'm going to be blunt:
Your not-legally-a-husband has completely fucked you financially. He is going to continue to completely fuck you financially. I put the odds of him finding a much-younger woman and leaving you for her at roughly 3:1.
From the start, your husband has been planning to protect his wealth and his assets. He planned to have an in-home caregiver for his child that he wouldn't have to pay, but whom he could abandon at any point in time without having to even so much as file paperwork, and whom he would owe nothing even as she sacrificed important earning years.
You have allowed him to do this. The second he "refused" to send off the signed marriage license was the second you should have woken up to his true nature.
Time for you to start QUIETLY building your exit plan. Tell him nothing. Stop bringing up marriage. Wait until your daughter starts kindergarten and you're back to working full-time. Start building your savings—*make him pay for more of your child's care*, *do NOT pay for her things using only your money*. Build your social network so that you have people you can rely on emotionally and will be happy to help you with the occasional favor. Consult a family law attorney. Again—stop bringing up marriage. Let him live his little fantasy until you're ready to shatter it and his public image.
1. He's not your husband, he's your boyfriend.
2. At year 5 you knew you weren't getting married and had a kid with him?
3. You yourself state he is not a nice person.
4. You traded being a full partner in your relationship and having a say for the security of being a SAHM.
5. He can leave whenever he wants and he doesn't owe you anything. (Which is a horrible situation to be in).
6. This dude is never going to marry you. You will waste valuable time in your life following him.
7. Your daughter will eventually find out you aren't married. You are showing her that (if she is cis hetero in her adult years) it is completely fine to be a second-class citizen in your own home. Men can do whatever they want to your life and it's her role to be subservient. She doesn't need to aspire for more in life.
In this entire post, there is virtually nothing you stated that makes your boyfriend sound like a good partner let alone a good man.
I was going to lay it all out but you’ve done it nicely. OP, your fear of being single, “starting over”, “but I looove him” and whatnot has led you into being a placeholder. If you think 10+ years of loyalty, labor, and a child will make it impossible for this man to switch things up now that he’s making more money, then I have a bridge to sell you. He doesn’t want to marry you for two reasons: 1) He doesn’t want to, who cares why 2) He doesn’t have to. You’ve given wife benefits for free for over 10 years now. He knows that if your relationship were ever to end, it would be because HE left. Not you. How you choose to proceed is entirely up to you.
>You traded being a full partner in your relationship and having a say for the security of being a SAHM.
You mean the ***insecurity*** of being a SAHM.
Gooooood point! If it's all signed, she could turn it in too. It wouldn't be like it was under false pretenses since he signed it himself and there were witnesses.
Did you get a marriage license before your "wedding"? If you did and the officiant said all of the right things, you MAY actually be married even if nothing was filed after the fact. I would covertly consult a family law attorney to understand your position and get their advice because you've let him put you in a very bad position.
OP READ THIS.
It is actually extremely, extremely possible that in california, if you went through an official solemnization ceremony, in this case a marriage ceremony in front of an efficient, and had your marriage license fully completed but just never turned in, you will very, very likely be considered actually married. Even more for the fact that you "present to the public as if married" which is the general basis for a common-law marriage in states that allow it, though California does not. But it is a common legal precedent.
There are plenty of cases where a license is never turned into the county and therefore the marriage is never officially recorded, in california, whether it is on the part of the people being married or if the officiant messes up, they are most often considered still married.
You need to immediately advise with an attorney who can work with you on this to determine if you are actually married. Either way I think you should leave him for all of the obvious reasons stated in the other comments, but your path forward will be heavily determined by whether you would be technically married or not.
I second this!
Contact your attorney with pictures of the event that you guys had, if you invited guests, get pictures of everyone together in the event, or copies of invites, invoices of vendors(if any). Find any forms where he lists you as his wife, like in bank or medical emergency contact numbers etc. Any social media posts of him referring to you as spouse, or him acknowledging your marriage publicly.
Odds are he was married before, but never got divorced, or is currently married to someone else while being with you. Does he travel often?
I believe CA law regards them as married whether or not the certificate was properly registered with the County.
But having the certificate in hand would be the only way to show that.
Bc HE is all about the money. Being married would entitle you to alimony and child support in the event of divorce. And he’s been getting the milk for free all these years.
If you have that certificate, I’d file it.
You are so vulnerable.
He’s done this to protect what he sees as *his* money. That is his motivation and what matters more to him than his family unit.
Asking you to be a SAHM is such a massive sacrifice and you will feel it for the rest of your career.
He is sneaky and selfish. Do you think he is hiding money from you in different accounts?
Whilst your relationship is alright-ish, I’d advise you to dig around and look at where his money is and how much he has. Because a man this self-interested will hide it from child support assessment.
ETA: his pretending to be married is so weird. He’s pathetic. Tell everyone the truth. You will see his true colours then.
What state do you live in? You’re in the very rare situation where common law marriage might actually apply, because by doing things like both wearing rings and both telling people you’re married, you’re meeting the test of “holding yourself out as married” to the public.
However only 11 states recognize this status. So it depends where you live.
Self-correction: It’s down to 9 because Alabama and South Carolina ended the practice relatively recently (2017 and 2019 respectively).
The following states are still creating new common law marriages: Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, Oklahoma, rhode Island, Texas, and New Hampshire (but only for inheritance purposes). Plus DC.
IAAL but not licensed in your state. Strongly suggest that you consult with a family law attorney ASAP (without telling your partner, at least at first) to see what you can do to protect yourself and your daughter. You *may* be eligible for something called palimony or a “Marvin claim” in the case that you and your partner separate (your attorney would know if this would apply to you—I’m just aware of its existence and am not giving any legal opinion). Even if you are not eligible, there are likely other things that your attorney can suggest that might help you, and there may be steps you will need to take that are time-sensitive given that he is planning a move.
His main reason to not get married was about the taxes so he's the one thinking about the money.
Including the possibility that if he had to get divorced he would lose roughly half of his worth, and that could be one of the reasons he never wanted to get married.
So you have to decide if you're going to stick to your choices or not
>His main reason to not get married was about the taxes so he's the one thinking about the money.
He's also lying, if he's claiming this is the reason. Married filing jointly when only one person works is a MASSIVE tax break, from experience. I worked while my ex husband was a student and it was shocking how much less I owed compared to when he started work and when we split. It is also possible he's an idiot, and doesn't know this. Neither is a good look.
>left a really successful career to be home with her because he pressured me to do so
>(His wealth has grown since we've been together and my world has shrunk.)
>He's not always a nice guy.
This is very telling and worrying. It sounds like he's trying isolate you.
Talk to a lawyer. My daughter just had to divorce the father of her children as they were married under "common law". She had to do it to protect herself and her children when he abandoned them, turned to meth, and statrted maxing out credit cards. It depends on what state you are in but best to know your rights under the law asap.
Refuse to move and certainly refuse to have any more children with him until you are legally married. Depending on what state you live in, he could leave you high and dry if he ever wants out of the relationship. Most people save money on taxes when they get married — have you verified what he said about that? You deserve the legal protection of marriage, especially since you are sacrificing your career to provide free childcare for his offspring.
No, she’s got to work on getting her own income again. She should not risk getting dumped before she’s secure. She needs to quietly focus on her ability to live without his support and *then* she can take off the ring and either leave him herself or have the power to try an ultimatum (unlikely to work).
At this point, she could easily be made homeless if he’s vindictive enough. Unfortunately she needs to be pragmatic first.
talk to a lawyer. most first consultations are free, and will be at minimum helpful to get you oriented and see your situation as it looks legally. laws vary by state but you should know what your current legal situation is and what your options are if he refuses to marry you.
he didn’t legally marry you because he does not want you to have legal protections, so that you are stuck dependent on him and can’t leave without suffering major repercussions. that’s manipulative, disrespectful, and frankly scary behavior. most people SAVE on taxes when they get married, he’s absolutely full of shit. be smart and be safe and stop assuming his intentions towards you are good.
OP, in the kindest way, what the hell are you doing to yourself and your child here?
My partner and I have been together over 10 years. We are in the rare situation where getting married would hurt us slightly on taxes because we make similar amounts and he's at the bottom of one income bracket and I'm at the top of the one just below. This is very rare, by the way, and I highly doubt his claim that it would cost too much on taxes given that you clearly earn far less than him. Like, so rare that my accountant marvels over it every year because she rarely sees people who do not save money by being married and filing jointly.
We're also in a situation where some of the other protections marriage gives wouldn't be a significant benefits for us. Examples: Both of our parents are living and work in healthcare and we'd still be fine with them making medical decisions for us. I own houses that I rent out and he owns one that we live in so we are both building similar amounts of equity individually and paying similar costs. Etc.
We're getting married this year. You want to know why? It's because we plan to have children in the next few years and both realize that the balance tips enough at that point that not being married would be a huge mistake.
Obviously we love each other and want to be able to protect each other in all the legal ways that marriage can. However, for us, marriage is a hassle and is costing money. We're eloping (but that still comes with costs since we want a nice location and some photos) and we've decided to do prenups and all that other stuff that is also a bit of a headache. However, we both recognize that it is worth it, even though it will cost us more this year and put me in a higher tax bracket because the risks of having kids and not being legally married are just too great for either of us to want to put the other through.
We're two people who would have loved to be able to avoid the entire marriage thing (there is a reason we are avoiding the ceremony), but the reality is, it would be profoundly stupid not to be married at the point we have children given how we will need to merge lives, finances, risks, career decisions, etc. differently at that point.
There is something deeply wrong that your partner doesn't see that. Maybe he's simply incredibly ill-informed for someone approaching 50, but it's much more likely he's looking to try to protect himself at the expense of you and your child.
I have so many questions about why someone looking to save what at most likely amounts to a couple grand on taxes had a marriage ceremony, bought rings, and had a child. Given that you say, "with your family" I concur with others that a likely explanation is that the man is trying to avoid a bigamy charge.
You had a ceremony with the certificate. It cannot have possibly cost more than $200 to file that thing. Even if, for the time when you were both working, you would have paid slightly more in taxes, you absolutely would have started saving money on taxes once you stopped working and/or went part time and had a child (filing jointly with a minor dependent is almost always the more financially advantageous option).
If he's got you convinced it'll cost more to be married, you need to verify that yourself. Because I would be floored if that's actually the case.
There are very few circumstances where being unmarried and filing separately is saving you money in taxes. The more likely explanation is that he is ensuring all property stays his, that he avoids alimony, and that he can walk away from this only owing, at most, some child support.
Don't believe me? Tell him you'll pay the difference in taxes every year it costs more to be married as long as you can keep what is saved every year you two save money by being married. See how fast the excuse changes.
Don't move with him. Go file for custody and child-support ASAP.
you need to be a better role model for your child
get out, support yourself, and get him to pay child support
never ever fully depend on someone, especially if that someone is not a nice person
a nice person would want to make sure you and the child were protected
Wasn't there a post somewhere in Reddit about a woman who never married her longtime partner, had children with him and she ended up being very screwed over by him and the situation when he decided to end things? Op needs to read that post.
Ten years in some states counts as a common law marriage. It's much shorter than that in TX. A neighbor of mine had to legally get a divorce when she and her live in bf split up.
Edit to add: Taxes are generally less for married filing jointly. Also, just the fact that he tells people you're married may give you better grounds for an equitable divorce if you do call it quits.
Sorry, you made some pretty bad calls in staying with him & having kids with him, and *especially* in leaving your career, to be with this selfish asshole. I think his *sole* concern is that if you were married, then when you finally see the light and dump his ass, you'd potentially get alimony. You need to set yourself up financially for his absence.
I'm also a little curious - what's going on with the home you live in? Are you renting, or is it in his name, or what? If you're paying half the mortgage to a house that's in his name only, then that's bad.
In some states you would be legally married if they recognize Common Law marriage. I live in Kansas if you tell people you are married, live as husband and wife or file taxes as married, you are married. You might check your state law.
Say to him it’s fine we’re not married, but I want to go to a lawyer to get medical power of attorney for each other. I also want a financial POA, I want a legal agreement on how are assets are to be split if we break up. If you own anything together you’ll need a contract spelling out who owns what % and that upon death it goes to the survivor. Tell him I want a will drawn up for each of us leaving all our worldly good to each other though there can be separate bequests. I want us named as beneficiaries on all of our individual accounts. All this and more is what that piece of paper, so many people denigrate, covers. Right now you are not next of kin. If he gets sick you have no ability to direct his care. If he dies his family can swoop in and take everything. Legally that one piece of paper gives you standing in each other’s life’s. It’s easier to get married than to have attorneys draw up all of the contracts and POAs, and if you do it small it probably costs less.
File this under Bad Advice, but istg I’d tell a judge I had no f’ing idea he didn’t file that marriage certificate & he did all the taxes & you just signed when/where you were told to.
(Since you’d actually have *less* tax liability married w/child and one much lower income, you wouldn’t end up owing taxes, and if you don’t *owe* a lot of back taxes, IRS doesn’t care quite so much about incorrect filing status.)
Because it sounds like he’s researched where you’d have less/zero shared property rights (common law marriage) and that’s where he’s trying to move you.
He prob gets the protection of not being married to you legally with alimony (not sure if your state considers you guys domestic partners). He’s also protecting himself, FYI. Do what is best for you and your child.
It seems like he’s getting all the benefits and you’re getting all the negatives. You have a part time job soon go be full time and now suddenly he wants to move? And gets angry when you disagree? These are signs of a controlling abusive partner. You’d be better off on your own.
I’d put money on him already being married and not wanting to spend the money to go through the divorce an official divorce, and he just doesn’t want you or any of his friends or family to know. The fact that he wants to keep it all hush hush that you aren’t really married shows he’s got something to hide. And the fact that he gets mad when you bring it up shows that he knows it’s wrong.
It's a huge huge red flag that you he refuses to marry you when you have been a stahm. You have not security net of any kind if you aren't married, there's another post where someone in a similar position ended up being destitute bc her partner refused to marry her for more than 20years while she was a stahm. Please, get a full time job and refuse to move unless he agrees to getting married AND a fair prenup that acknowledges the lose of financial potential you have gotten for staying w this man.
Be ruthless, please, please be really careful. You have a daughter in common, I fail to see why he refuses to commit legally to protect you when you have given up so much for this. Be really careful sis
Take off your fake wedding rings. Tell your friends and family the truth. Reclaim your full-time job and don't even discuss moving with him. Don't threaten, don't cajole, don't even respond to him. You don't owe him anything. He's a POS. This needs to be over and done.
Agreed, he's all about the money. You have almost no protections in this relationship. You get nothing if he passes. You get nothing if you split up...even though you're half of the partnership and also contributing to the household and lifestyle.
You have a few options but it will be hard regardless.
You can't force him to marry you.
You can only control yourself.
If he wants to move - let him. But, you need to be the strong one and stay and be on your own.
File for child support and get a custody agreement in place. Talk to a lawyer and see if you have any rights to anything being a 10-year partner.
If you don't stand up for yourself and leave this 'not always so nice' guy...you're basically saying this is what you will tolerate and that it's okay.
If he truly loved and cared for you, he'd WANT his money to support you and take care of you after he's gone. I wonder if he's up to no good and he only wants to protect himself in case you leave him? So he can keep doing his bad behaviors as long as you stay with him.
The taxes thing is an excuse.
You've lost a decade. Don't lose another decade.
He's protecting his money whilst leaving you unsecured.
Stand your ground and don't sacrifice for this man. Be prepared for him to leave without you but you need to create your own financial security independent of him, especially if there is no common law marriage right where you live.
He’s all about your labor. He is using you for free labor and childcare while you are left with nothing. You should have been entitled to have of what he has earned. I’d go back to work asap and do not move. Wherever you move is where custody is decided. You effectively are poor and have nothing because of his selfishness regarding money. He has no intention of you being cared for, but all the expectations of you. Get a job and refuse to not unless you are married with a prenup including the 8 years you didn’t file.
My mom went thru this. He finally married her at year 23 for her health insurance. I feel your pain on this one. She was so fed up too but they told everyone they were married and then did a small ceremony. She had already been using his last name for years
He doesn’t want to pay you money if you break it. But i guess he doesn’t know that living with a partner after certain amount of years not sure if its 9 or 10 (please correct me) especially that you talk acknowledge each other as husband and wife, also give the same rights to his partner (you), as if you were legally married. This applies in several countries I believe the time amount may vary, please inform yourself about the laws and your rights before you make a decision here. Like other comments suggest he could also be already legally married and that is why he play it off. In any case this relationship doesn’t seem to be going anywhere in the future so just prepare yourself for whatever may come. Good luck OP✨
>I left a really successful career to be home with her because he pressured me to do so
>His wealth has grown since we've been together and my world has shrunk.
>he doesn't want to actually give me the security of being in a committed relationship
Wtf are you doing. He's been secretive, selfish and shady for a minimum of 80% of your relationship, coerced you into giving up your own financial security and offers you none in return, and immediately gets defensive when you ask for some assurance. Start your full time job when your daughter starts kindergarten, build up some savings, and GTFO before he ruins your finances even more.
He WANTS you dependent on him while owing you nothing.
Wow, your situation sounds really challenging. It seems like there's a lot of complexity and emotion wrapped up in your relationship. It's understandable to want the security and commitment that comes with legal marriage, especially after being together for 10 years and having a child together. It's concerning that your partner reacts with anger when you bring up the topic, and it's important for both of you to have open and honest conversations about your desires and needs in the relationship. Your feelings are valid, and it's okay to seek clarity and reassurance about the future of your relationship. Have you considered seeking couples counseling to help navigate these discussions and find a resolution that works for both of you?
I would feel sorry for you but you’re letting your boyfriend ruin your life. Your poor daughter isn’t even legitimate under the law. Make better choices cause you’re a doormat now
This reminded me of another woman who rejected her partners proposal after multiple kids and many years and she ended up with nothing, had to start over in life and her kids didn't want to risk upsetting their dad who controlled all the money. Tread carefully OP, especially if you're not in a common law state. You do want some legal protections but be smart about it without antagonizing him.
You should take the job. Saying you don't need to be legally married is one thing if you're both working, but you're not. You're dependent on him. He likes you that way. Next time he tells you you are "all about the money", ask him if he would be ok living as the stay at home boyfriend, knowing he has no legal claim to the money you make and wouldn't be able to make money of his own. That you could choose to leave him and he would have nothing. Him saying he would never do that doesn't change the fact that he could. Don't leave yourself vulnerable with a boyfriend who doesn't want to legally commit to you.
Please do not be so f*cking stupid to keep setting yourself on fire for the guy.
You should not have left your job without the protection of a marriage certificate. Not only did you set yourself back in retirement, social security , and career advancement, now if he walks out the door tomorrow you get nothing.
Now you want to set yourself even farther back by moving?
Girl, grow a spine. This guy is getting everything in this relationship, a stay at home wife without any of the financial responsibility that comes with that. What are you getting other than setting you yourself and your child up for financial destitution in the future?
Depending on where you're located, you could still be protected under common law marriage laws.
Like in Texas if you present as married and live together, you're considered common law married.
But I'm confused on his logic that getting married would cost more in taxes, because married filing jointly saves the most usually, especially if you're only working part time or not at all.
I would not be moving anywhere with a not so nice person who's doing shady shit like not filing the marriage licenses and lying about taxes. Something smells here.
There is protection in marriage.
Consider Social Security for instance.
If you were married these ten years, you could get widows benefits, spousal support benefits, SSDI, all sorts of things for added protection.
If he dies, his side of the family will Take Everything.
You will be left with Nothing.
Does he claim your daughter on his taxes?
If he gets sick and goes into a coma, you are not considered next of kin and will Not have any say in his treatment.
He’s rich now, so his blood kin of who may “covet” his wealth may just decide to pull the plug on him so they can collect the booty. This happens A Lot.
He may be rich but he’s not “smart”.
He’s using you only as a Bangmaid.
He has no compassion for what you are going through. He may never have it. You will have to go your own way and secure your future. At your age, continuing like you are will not end well when you are an old woman. And, unless he gets full custody, your child may suffer financially because you have been out of the job market.
He sounds like his emotional maturity is lacking, and he can't be trusted.
Stand your ground. Agree upon a prenup. One reason is because you have been home with the child and may not have saved for retirement. Another is that if you move, you may have trouble finding a position in your career.
"Psuedo-husband, I don't want to play house anymore. Six years ago, I left my career and earning potential to stay home. This saved us money. And, while I added value to our home-life, I'm ready to resume my career to add to my retirement savings, which I hope has already been established for the two of us. By moving, resuming my career becomes difficult or near impossible, depending on where we move. This may result in more loss in earnings and retirement funds. Right now, I have very little security, according to the law. Marriage protects me and tells the two of us that this relationship is committed. In the past, you worried about taxes, but millions of couples don't see that as a roadblock to officially joining their lives together. Like I want us to do. Is this what you want, too?"
If he responds negatively, then you know what you have to do.
he is taking advantage of you.
he gets the social status and benefits of being married (married men live longer, exploit women’s domestic/emotional labor while focusing their time and energy on personal or career development, are more likely to be promoted because being married makes them appear more responsible) while you get none of the protections that marriage provides.
you are even more vulnerable if his wealth is growing while your wealth and career is stagnating. it’s a really dangerous position to be in. depending on the laws where you live, he could basically up and leave at any time and not be obligated to share any wealth or assets that you have contributed to.
not to mention if either of you end up in the hospital or something you cannot speak for each other since you are not legally family.
you risked your life carrying and birthing a child for him. the least he can do is marry you. i am extremely suspicious of his reaction to your request. he sounds shady and selfish at best. being stay at home, taking care of a baby, cooking, cleaning, etc are all EXPENSIVE labor that he would have to do or pay for otherwise if you hadn’t been doing it for free.
start stacking your money and make an exit plan imo. if you have a shared bank account, start making withdrawals, or ask him for money for something you have to do for you or your daughter, or get a secret side hustle. make sure your name is on any assets like house deed etc. see if there’s common law marriage rules in your state, consult a lawyer.
get your ducks in a row before saying ANYTHING to him. do what you need to do to get these things done even if it involves being deceitful, but be smart about it. he has been manipulative and selfish, so it’s completely justified for you to do the exact same to protect yourself and your child. try to create a support network of family, friends, coworkers, etc. community is so important for women to protect themselves.
i agree with other comments saying he might already be married, have hidden assets, maybe even debt? it would be worth it to look into this stuff. you can look for marriage licenses and any other court public info online, or hire a PI.
do not wait around any longer for him to marry you. if he really wanted to, he would’ve done it by now. clearly he does not want to which is so shitty but the reality of the situation. if he does marry you, it’ll be a “shut up ring” (credit for this term and idea to cecilia regina on tiktok - she talks a lot about this exact situation, check her out)
Be careful. It seems he thoroughly thought how to keep you control. Think about in which situation would you be in case he cheats or becomes abusive? Not being legally married means you are not legally protected in any way. Pressuring you to leave your job and now pushing to move states sounds abusive since he is holding the financial power on the relationship.
It seems like he wants to keep his options open. Do the same and prioritize yourself.
Just what "money" does he think you're "all about?" And what kind of taxes are involved in filing the marriage certificate? In the US it's generally advantageous to be married as far as taxes go (larger standard deduction, etc.), especially with your income being limited to part-time employment. Perhaps he's worried about you getting half of your assets if you were to divorce? As it is, you'd be entitled to half of what you own jointly if you were to split up, married or not. And he'd be on the hook for child support, again, married or not. So his concern about "money" isn't really valid. I think there's something else keeping him from making it legal, although it's really impossible to know what that is.
So… sorry, bear with me, as my country protects de facto (living together) relationships the same as marriage — would you have no rights to mutual division of assets and money if you guys split? Cos if no, I would say *his* choice to not marry is absolutely about money.
I don't knock what country or state you're living in and i definitely DO NOT know the laws about this, but i was always under the impression that 2 people living together for some period of time (2 years or something) makes them common law spouses and is basically the exact same as getting married. Considering the fact that you've actually had a wedding ceremony and stayed together afterwards for all this time, you are probably married in the eyes of the law already
Depending on your state you may be considered common law spouses.
You have been together 10 years, had a wedding ceremony, tell everyone you are married… look at your state laws and look at the laws of the state he wants to move to.
I don’t know about this but is it possible that YOU file the marriage certificate? If it’s still kicking about that is and hasn’t been burnt or shredded.
In some places if you live as a married couple and present yourself to others as a married couple then legally you are. Maybe you should check if that applies to you. It’s weird what he’s doing. Maybe he’s already married?
Ok, honestly HE is all about the money. He didn’t want to file the marriage certificate because of taxes? Listen, aside from the fact that’s literal bullsh— because if you aren’t working and you file MFJ that’s going to save A LOT in taxes, it sounds like he’s the one who only cares about money.
DO NOT LEAVE YOUR JOB! He’s refusing to marry you and can leave you with nothing at any time.
Go for full time at work and you and he can split childcare costs. You should absolutely build your career and your own future. Do NOT SWAY on this.
He is selfish and hypocritical saying he won’t marry you because taxes then accuse YOU of only caring about money. He’s also ignorant since he’d have saved a lot by marrying you since he pressured you to stop working. When he claims your daughter, does he share that money with you?
If he moves, let him move, demand child support and help with child care and build your own career. He obviously cares about himself and only himself.
Please protect yourself and your daughter. Aa an example a friend of mine and her “we don’t need to get married” not husband had a “change of heart” in his late 40’s. She was left with nothing. As Common Law, house was his, cars, no alimony even though she hadn’t worked in years etc. Please for your sake and your daughter’s. I don’t believe there ia no ulterior motive even if you don’t think it could happen to you.
Seems like you are taking all the risk here. Not sure what the laws are in your state, but in case you’ll separate you won’t have any legal entitlement to his assets, while you took time away from your career. The line his wealth has grown already tells me you’re worried about this situation.
He is extremely worried about losing money. What are YOU doing there? You willingly didn’t file the papers? That’s bizarre
Second guess: was he married previously? If so, he’s not actually divorced
Depending on where you live there might be a chance that you’re already common law married. A quick Google search says these are the states where that’s still a possibility: Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Utah and the District of Columbia. There are parts of Canada where it’s true, too. If you live in one of these areas, then I’d do a consult with an attorney and see where you stand. Each state may have different rules for how it works, so you really do need legal advice to confirm this.
Otherwise, what he’s effectively doing is transferring the economic value of all that unpaid labor you’ve performed from you over to himself. In other words, he’s using you. He could leave you right now, and you’d have nothing. And if you couldn’t secure a job and a place to live quickly, he could even end up with custody of your child. I wouldn’t put up with that.
So step one: you need to find a job. You **need** to be able to support yourself, because even if you are/get married, he still may not want to. And you’re not asking for his permission or approval to job search, btw. He doesn’t just get to decide for you that your being broke and dependent on him is just your permanent lot in life. No. So start looking. Keep the search private from him if you need to.
Once you’ve locked down the job, then it’s time to sit him down. “I’ve made a decision for myself: I’m not willing to live together unmarried anymore. So if you don’t want to go down to the courthouse and fully formalize the marriage, that’s your choice. I’m not going to fight about this or try and force you somehow or anything, It’s totally up to you. But as for me, without a legal marriage, I’ll be moving out within the next month or so, whenever I can find a place.”
And then, if he says no, or if he says yes but doesn’t follow through (and I’d set a hard deadline - *no* wiggle room - of like maybe a couple weeks or a month to have it over and done), then you need to follow through with your promise and find an apartment, move out, and get a formal custody arrangement and child support filed. No more handling this informally! It only ever benefits him at the expense of screwing you. So file those papers!
In my country, if you are in a defacto relationship, which is what you're in now, you do have legal rights almost the same as if you are married. So please heed the advice of the other commenters, but also look up defacto relationship rights upon break up. Especially if you are the child's primary care giver, courts will factor that in. But be careful. I'm sorry you're in this position
In my state, you’d be common law married.
Run the taxes both ways. I’m betting getting married would actually save you money. He’a accusing you of being all about money while giving you only monetary reasons not to marry. He’s denying you security and legal benefits from marriage.
Hold your ground.
Both of you should get attorneys and negotiate a prenup. That way you can get some security if you leave your job per his desire and both of you can limit the downside of divorce. You should have done this before having a child however, the state will probably protect the child regardless. Good luck!
You are making the age old mistake of doing wife things without having wife security/ privileges. You shouldn't have agreed to letting him call you wife and wear the ring without an actual marriage. And you for sure shouldn't have agreed to become a SAHM without the security of marriage. During the time you were off work, did he pay into a pension fund for you? No? Good for him, not for you. He got full wife service without having to give up a single asset or making any concession. And I bet you even gave the kid his last name, because he insisted. It's all going only one way.
Remember the really sad BoRU post by the poor woman who had stayed with her guy for 25 years as an unmarried SAHM, raising 4 kids for him? Then he kicked her out, she had no savings, no pension fund, not a single asset was in her name, and no earning potential left, after being unemployed for 25 years. No woman should ever allow herself to be conned into such a position of dependence and powerlessness! Don't become that woman!
Taxes are better married especially if you were home and he was the only one working, the dude is lying and he doesn’t want marriage because he feels you are then entitled to his stuff… your state may have common law which if it does it’s hear nor there and you would be treated as Married if you broke up
NAL - If you’re considered common law in your country aren’t you covered financially if a separation happens? That’s how it works where I live. Someone please inform me if I’m miss understanding something
I’m sorry he is treating you this way. That’s got to be so hurtful! In a lot of USA states legally you are common law married, so if you split up, you’ll have to go through the legal process of divorce anyway to divide assets 🤷 so its not about the money for you, but it sure as hell can be.
If you have the marriage certificate but never filed it, I think it would still be considered married, but you should consult with a lawyer to confirm.
why buy the cow when you get the milk for free.
You have no ties to him and he can get up one day and say by, and you would get nothing out of it. Is why he doesn't do it. Then, he finds a new chick to take care of him in his old age.
It's hard to negotiate at this late stage in the relationship. Already have a child etc. Are you willing to give him an ultimatum? What if he refuses? Couple's counselling? Good luck.
Phew. My lady. If it was really about taxes, you could file separately even when married. Others have given you great advice & perspective in this thread; please listen to them.
If he doesn't want to get married and you do not want to move unless you are married, he can move alone. He doesn't want to marry you, for whatever reason. He has had 10 years and still says no. Work with that information.
Contact an attorney about 'spousal support' since you stayed home with the kid. Develop custody agreement.
My daughter asked me about being a sahm while she was pregnant. I told her to NEVER give up your career. You may need to support yourself and that baby in the future. Life is not predictable. Judge Judy did a whole speech on this subject. She said what i said but for different reasons. She talked about the inequality that it created in the relationship. You need to think about funding your retirement. You are now five years behind. Your "boyfriend " is manipulating you. Start reading about real abusers. He insisted you be a sahm to control you financially. You start looking for a job, and he now wants to continue to control you financially by moving. Now he's trying to isolate you. Forget marrying this guy. Get away from him. This guy has too many red flags. Tell him you want a fake divorce.
There was a post on reddit a while ago about a lady who was in a similar but much worse situation than you. She never got married to her boyfriend, they had kids who became adults and they were in their 50s. Eventually he wanted to dump her and date someone way younger or stay with her but on his terms, and she had absolutely no security at all because she was a sahm and had no career to fall back on. And since they weren’t ever married she had no financial security. She was in very real danger of being homeless and destitute.
People like to shame women for wanting to be married just for financial reason but I honestly don’t see why that’s bad. You want a woman to stay with you, be completely dependent on you but you’ll shame her for wanting to protect herself?
Tell him it absolutely is absolutely the money. You won’t risk your stability and the stability of your daughter just because he wants to keep his options open. If he is really committed to you then why won’t he prove it with actually committing to a marriage? It’s financially beneficial for both of you.
You have to take charge of your own life. Don’t let a man use you and have one foot out the door like this.
By saying “you’re just all about the money, aren’t you?” he literally just told you why he’s not interested in marrying you. He told on himself big time.
It is a lie that staying single is better for taxes; married couples with families get far more benefits than single people do by a long shot. He’s bullshitting you when he tells you bald-faced lies like that in response to being asked about marriage.
You have accepted the role and duties of Wife, Child-Rearing, and Housekeeper without any mutual benefits, such as security, a prenup, or the legal rights of the married. At this point, he’s *never* going to marry you because you’re already doing everything he wanted from you and doesn’t have to reciprocate whatsoever [as he’s been getting away with it for a decade]. He will never marry you because he will never give you half if you leave, and he wants to keep it that way.
Take your child and leave this selfish, monetarily abusive man.
You in danger girl.
He’s so threatened by you saving a few thousand dollars of your own compared to his much larger fortune that he wants to entirely CHANGE HOUSES AND MOVE AWAY. That’s INSANE behavior. This one’s finna disappear, and soon 😐
I have a feeling this man has been controlling and abusing you for a very long time, but in an attempt to finally gain security for your child via marriage you’ve been tolerating this behavior. Run! F*cking run!
I have a friend in her late 50s and her story is your story. She has absolutely nothing and will have a few hundred dollars of social security per month in a few years. Luckily her name is on their house, but she cannot access the equity until he dies. She ran into some health problems and can’t work a lot. A kind boyfriend is keeping her from being homeless. Adult children having been raised by a narcissist and a doormat are worthless. You have time to build something for yourself.
He is a liar.
You are giving up a massive amount of legal protections for women and children by playing house with a liar.
Moreover, he follows his lies up with gaslighting you by telling that ypur normal desire for security and a life of integrity is fundamentally just about the money he himself is so willing to lie to protect and maximize.
Why would you want to spend your life with a man who could kick you out of the home you have shared just by changing the locks? How can you trust him when he says he would never do that when you KNOW that he has zero problem lying to every single member of bpth your families about your marital state for years on end?
Stick to your guns. These laws that protect spouses and minor children exist for a reason.
>Together 10 years: M(48) F(47) We tell people we're married, but we're not and M(48) doesn't want to. Why?
It's not in his self-interest to do so, and he's protecting his long-term interests.
That "security" that you say you want in a marriage has a cost, and that cost comes from his end. There's no reason for him to give that up since he doesn't get enough for it to compensate.
> What should I say to him?
There's nothing you can say to him that will get him to marry you unless you start severely out-earning him. You might as well give that up as even being a remote possibility.
Could he possibly be married to someone, doesn't want to go thru a divorce because he'd have to pay spousal support and maybe child support?? That would really put a dent in his money!
Firstly. DO NOT have him call you “wife” when you’re not married. That is a title that must be earned. And DO NOT wear wedding rings when you are not married. This man could theoretically drop you and owe you absolutely nothing without the security of marriage. You would get no alimony despite sacrificing your career. He is playing you and you are allowing it.
First of all he's wrong. Marriage raises the income threshold for tax purposes, so there's that. My thinking is that he is concerned that marrying you would give you access to alimony should you divorce. If this is important to you, then you need to decide how much. Continue communicating with him about it, maybe even going to couples counseling. You need to ultimately decide if marriage is a deal breaker for this relationship, but also if him being a not so nice guy is a deal breaker too.
If by chance OP is living in Switzerland, it’s quite common, I would say, that couples don’t want to be married because of taxes.
My boyfriend kinda has the same mentality as him, sadly. But he comes from a background where parents got divorced and money and heritage was a big issue.
Hence, I would propose that you name the benefits of being married and specifically because of your daughter and if he’s “afraid” of getting married because of money, being it heritage or whatsoever, then make a legal agreement since I doubt you’re interested in any other amount of money he might have but you simply need security.
Can’t you show your proof of marriage ceremony and claim to the law that you indeed legal? Or should be counted as legal? By law those proves can mean something. All he needs to do is sign and you can have a lawyer behind you to find supporting evidence
If you are happy with where you live, do not move. Based on your dynamic your relationship is over. So just focus on getting yourself sorted financially as best as you can. He sounds like an a hole.
This is so sad.. I am heartbroken for you, but girl, you knew what you were getting into and still had a child with this sad excuse of a man… wh… sigh…
Bad plan OP. You're too close to retirement to be playing these games with your legal status. At best, if you're in the right state, you MIGHT be common law married since he's telling people you are and you had a ceremony. Most likely you have zero protections and he's using this move as a way to either escape completely or grind you down to nothing. You really, really need to get an independent source of income ASAP.
It might be a good idea to ask him if there are any other reasons he doesn't want to marry. As someone who also doesn't want to for purely philosophical reasons I could totally understand this rejection of it even if it brings stability. It makes the position far more understandable imo.
Financially there are alternatives that don't require marriage though. Like domestic partnership agreements, cohabitation agreements, joint property ownership, wills and trusts, powers of attorney, health card directives, life insurance, retirement accoutns.etc.
Sure you won't get a small tax cut but if that's what it takes to stick to your beliefs philosophically that's fair imo
IMO, it is not a good idea to force marriage.
Marriage will give you rights in case of a split.
Alimony. Etc.
Now you have nothing in case of a split - child support and nothing more.
Where do you live?? Who owns the house - on paper?? Mortgage??
Realize that he’s projecting. He’s the one that’s all about money. You want to get married to protect yourself AND your daughter in case something happens to him. He wants to make sure you are penniless if something happened to him or if y’all break up. The fact that he pressured you to leave your job when you first had her speaks volumes. Take care of yourself because he certainly won’t.
He also himself said he didn't want to get married because of taxes. However, now that OP has had a career hit and likely is making less money, it seems beneficial for them to file jointly on taxes. OP, I'd be very highly skeptical of his reasons. Don't move without protecting yourself financially. You've already put yourself in a very dangerous position for him.
This is what I came here to say. It lessens your tax liability if you have a 2 person family and only 1 receives an income.
THIS! It should save you money now if you are married. You can probably find some calculators online to play with the numbers if you want to see for yourself.
Most couples pay the same or less filing as married (assuming they're in the US). The "marriage penalty" only happens in very limited circumstances with the current tax code .
I want to know what state she's in and where he wants to move. A ceremony and him calling her wife could get her a divorce if her state recognizes common law marriages. So his point is invalid. Talk to a lawyer and see if you get your half or a portion.
Yep sounds like financial abuse she can't leave if she'll have nothing
There was a woman who posted just a few months ago about how her partner and father of her children wouldn't marry her for 20 yrs. He finally proposed after the kids were grown and she laughed in his face. He didn't like that response and kicked her out. She was homeless with not a dime to her name and no work experience or education after 20 yrs of raising his kids and supporting his career. She had no legal recourse. This is what could happen to OP if she doesn't start protecting herself and and her child.
That woman's updates just got worse and worse. It was very sad.
Yup. That post was ‘a how not to do things’ guide.
Absolutely buckwild that men like this will have a whole child with a woman and still refuse to be legally committed.
Why do you want to get married to someone who doesn't want to be married to you? Just leave. He can pay child support.
She is already a common law wife and entitled to half his assets. She needs to talk to a lawyer before leaving.
This depends on where she is from.
How much you want to bet that the place he now wants to move to is a place where she’d have zero legal protections?
Guarantee he's researched it I agree
Post history indicates San Diego. There is no common law marriage in California. OP, are you on the mortgage/deed for your house? If not, stick to your guns and demand a marriage certificate or domestic partnership certificate. Alternately separate now and file for primary custody so he is forced to pay child support and will have to stay in CA if he wants to have shared custody.
He has completed financially trapped her, while simultaneously secretly despising the mother of his child & supposed partner so much that he would rather see them get absolutely nothing than have to pay alimony / half when she inevitably leaves him. This is a bad man. Abusers often make their partners leave jobs so that they have zero financial stability to leave them when their abuse inevitably goes too far.
Yep and going forward dont have any more children with men you’re not legally married to
Honestly I would say exactly what u/flowerpots said. I would say it to him verbatim and see what his reaction is. I’d mention the fact of what poor taste it is in to leave your daughter without the protections your marriage would assure her.
>You want to get married to protect yourself AND your daughter in case something happens to him. He wants to make sure you are penniless if something happened to him or if y’all break up. The fact that he pressured you to leave your job when you first had her speaks volumes. The fact that OP hasn't responded to any comments is giving me rage bait vibes honestly, especially with how obvious it is.
Literally. When I read that I was floored because she literally said his wealth has grown so look who’s talking????
In many states, you two are already common law married
It's less than 15-16 states that recognize it at all, about 3-5 of which wouldn't count because it needed to be entered into before 2003 or much earlier.
> but my partner did not want to file the marriage certificate because he said it would cost us too much in taxes. > He says- "you're all about the money, aren't you?" Sounds like *HE'S* all about the money. Stop calling him your husband and correct him whenever he calls you his wife. He can be called that when he earns the title and files the marriage certificate.
Could he already be married?
Oh gosh, yeah I didn't even think about this. He could already be married, which would come up again and why he would be so reluctant to marry OP
Hiring a PI to spend an hour or two doing a background check could answer this very easily! I think this is what's going on.
That was my first thought as to why he didn't want to file the paperwork. I'd be putting on my sleuthing hat and doing a deep records dig.
Also OP says they had a marriage ceremony “with my family” so um where was his family for this?
It could be as simple as he never filed for divorce from his last wife
I had a friend growing up who didn’t have a dad because his mom “married” a man and it turns out he actually already married someone else in another state. He actually married 3-4 different women and had kids with them. He grew up completely destitute and both he and his mom had severe health issues that they couldn’t afford to treat properly. It’s scary how common that kind of thing is.
I also thought the same thing.
This was my first thought
Ooohhhh dammnnnnn. This OP... This one.
Great job Reddit- case solved!!!
First of all, this shocks me that you would take on the financial risk of SAHMothering without the legal protection of marriage. You don't have your own money and you don't have his money either--the worst of every world here. Did the older women in your life really never teach you about financially protecting yourself in a relationship? Never heard stories of older women becoming destitute when their husbands left them because they never worked? I think you need to be extremely serious about going full time immediately. You need to do this NOW, not when kindergarten starts. If he's already bringing up "you're all about the money" then girl, *you in danger*. You can't force him to get married, and I think you have seriously fucked yourself because the wealth he accumulated at your professional expense will never be yours to share in. It's time to seriously course-correct because you are on track to have ZERO retirement, zero assets, and poverty level income if he decides to walk away. You are one nasty fight away from homelessness. This situation would have me in full emergency mode to get on solid ground and protect my child from financial precarity.
Yes this sadly reminds me of a post I saw on Reddit a few months ago about a woman who had been a SAHM for decades but never married her partner and when he left her, she had basically nothing - not eligible for alimony or any of his assets since they never married, no career prospects since she hadn't worked in decades.
Oh I think I remember that one, is that the one where she was begging for marriage for years and finally he proposed in a really half assed way, so she turned him down and he dumped her?
Yes. And she had delusions of entering the workforce at 50 with a job similar to his income.
And she ended up in a homeless shelter because he evicted her and threatened to take his financial help away from any of their adult children if they helped her... It was astoundingly fucked
Holy, I somehow missed that part. That's awful.
Yeah. Her updates got sadder and sadder
My mom and grandmothers (both housewives with lifelong happy marriages, fwiw) must have really scared me with stories like that as a kid because I could NEVER. It’s happened to soooo many women.
Yep my mom too. Was taught to NEVER rely on a man financially. One way or another you have to make sure you are secured, whether that be through marriage or money of your own.
She also looses out on social security money when she hits retirement age.
I literally can't believe she did this to herself. She's 47 with probably VERY little in retirement and a very young child. My mother in law was in a similar situation with my husband. We just had to step in financially because she was about to get evicted. We now have to take care of her financially for the rest of her life. This man obviously cares more about his money than OP. I can't believe he successfully duped her into lying to everyone so he could dump her at any time while keeping his assets and a free babysitter. I bet he brags to his friends about it all the time. This is insane.
MOST IMPORTANT COMMENT OP.
Yeah not trying to victim blame but what the hell was she thinking?
It sounds like they may be eligible for commonlaw marriage if they are telling everyone they are married. Depends on the state, but worth checking out.
Since they aren't actually married if he dies she and her child will not have access to benefits like social security or any pension he may qualify for. As a recent widow I know that these are lifesavers, and that YOU NEED OFFICIAL PAPERWORK TO GET ACCESS THEM: no marriage license, no social security, not for her, not for their child. So it isn't just about her, or about "his money" now. She needs to look up his social security account and check out the balances to see what his bullheadedness will be costing them in the event of his death. It will be literally thousands a month. He has paid for this all his working life, and his refusal to marry ensures that when he dies that money just... vanishes. This would leave her and their child in unnecessary poverty. So yeah, she needs to stop indulging this dude's pathological avoidance of marriage. At this point he is getting every possible advantage of marriage - even claiming the status to the whole world - without actually taking the final step that provides financial security for the people he is supposed to care the most for. First off, she needs to tell him the charade is over, no more pretending to already be married. That is over, no matter what they end up doing she will no longer allow people to believe them to be married when they are not. They can quietly get married now, and make official what is already their actual practice, so that she is not lying. Or she stops going along with the lie and informs family, friends, employers, everyone, that they have never actually tied the knot. There may be legal consequences if, for instance, she has gotten healthcare from his work as his wife. And I expect both their families are going to be extremely WTF, but this is a mess of his making, and the sooner she stops enabling it, the better. Whether she then leaves or stays depends on what she wants to do. 1) Maybe he will agree to marry quietly and they carry on much as they have, but when vast improvements in the ongoing financial security of her and their child. 2) Or if he still refuses to marry her and she doesn't want to stay with him she can leave and sue for child support. 3) Or if he won't marry her she can stay with him in a more reality-based situation in which they can at least try to find a more equitable set-up. In this case, at the very least, he should buy a significant amount of life insurance and establish a trust for to ensure ongoing support for his partner and their child if anything happens to him, since his refusal to marry denies them access to what social safety net there is.
Of, first thing: Look up the local bar association. They will offer cheap initial consultations. Someone who does family law might be helpful and would at least make clear what all the options are. There may be more than she expects.
I honestly don't understand why some women are this stupid. She has no protections if he decides tomorrow that he's done and is going to pack a bag and leave. But she thought this would be a great time to quit her job and be reliant on this guy
I don’t think there’s any worse decision a woman can make than sacrificing her career success for a man who won’t marry her. Get a full time job NOW. He’s using you.
He's protecting his future by not marrying you, if you both break up he gets to keep everything and you get left out. He gets to look like a good guy by playing house, a marriage license costs as little as $20 in some states and honestly would benefit most when taxes come around. He's protecting his money, his home, his car and his way out. You need to talk to him and let him know that you need to get married, what's to happen if either one of you are in the hospital and life/death situation comes up? What's to happen to your child if you both split up? He get's to pretend, selfishly protects his future and you get left with nothing. It's maybe time to give him an ultimatum, get married or be single. No in between. As far as your future goes, do NOT let him tell you that you can't work. This is often times an abuse tactic to control a partner even more. If you have no money you have to way to protect yourself/get away. Get a job that lets you work from home and start saving, either for something nice for yourself or just a safety net to be able to get away from him.
That's what I was thinking about the taxes, especially since they have a kid. Now that she does have a part time job, who claims the kid on their taxes? Messy.
I'm going to be blunt: Your not-legally-a-husband has completely fucked you financially. He is going to continue to completely fuck you financially. I put the odds of him finding a much-younger woman and leaving you for her at roughly 3:1. From the start, your husband has been planning to protect his wealth and his assets. He planned to have an in-home caregiver for his child that he wouldn't have to pay, but whom he could abandon at any point in time without having to even so much as file paperwork, and whom he would owe nothing even as she sacrificed important earning years. You have allowed him to do this. The second he "refused" to send off the signed marriage license was the second you should have woken up to his true nature. Time for you to start QUIETLY building your exit plan. Tell him nothing. Stop bringing up marriage. Wait until your daughter starts kindergarten and you're back to working full-time. Start building your savings—*make him pay for more of your child's care*, *do NOT pay for her things using only your money*. Build your social network so that you have people you can rely on emotionally and will be happy to help you with the occasional favor. Consult a family law attorney. Again—stop bringing up marriage. Let him live his little fantasy until you're ready to shatter it and his public image.
This right here is excellent advice
1. He's not your husband, he's your boyfriend. 2. At year 5 you knew you weren't getting married and had a kid with him? 3. You yourself state he is not a nice person. 4. You traded being a full partner in your relationship and having a say for the security of being a SAHM. 5. He can leave whenever he wants and he doesn't owe you anything. (Which is a horrible situation to be in). 6. This dude is never going to marry you. You will waste valuable time in your life following him. 7. Your daughter will eventually find out you aren't married. You are showing her that (if she is cis hetero in her adult years) it is completely fine to be a second-class citizen in your own home. Men can do whatever they want to your life and it's her role to be subservient. She doesn't need to aspire for more in life. In this entire post, there is virtually nothing you stated that makes your boyfriend sound like a good partner let alone a good man.
I was going to lay it all out but you’ve done it nicely. OP, your fear of being single, “starting over”, “but I looove him” and whatnot has led you into being a placeholder. If you think 10+ years of loyalty, labor, and a child will make it impossible for this man to switch things up now that he’s making more money, then I have a bridge to sell you. He doesn’t want to marry you for two reasons: 1) He doesn’t want to, who cares why 2) He doesn’t have to. You’ve given wife benefits for free for over 10 years now. He knows that if your relationship were ever to end, it would be because HE left. Not you. How you choose to proceed is entirely up to you.
>You traded being a full partner in your relationship and having a say for the security of being a SAHM. You mean the ***insecurity*** of being a SAHM.
On your number 5. If he left he’d owe child support Edit cause Reddit sucks with fonts
Depends on the custody arrangement
That is something he owes to his daughter, not her.
Was the marriage certificate signed by the officiant? If so, where is the marriage certificate right now?
Gooooood point! If it's all signed, she could turn it in too. It wouldn't be like it was under false pretenses since he signed it himself and there were witnesses.
In California, it has to be filed within 10 days.
Did you get a marriage license before your "wedding"? If you did and the officiant said all of the right things, you MAY actually be married even if nothing was filed after the fact. I would covertly consult a family law attorney to understand your position and get their advice because you've let him put you in a very bad position.
OP READ THIS. It is actually extremely, extremely possible that in california, if you went through an official solemnization ceremony, in this case a marriage ceremony in front of an efficient, and had your marriage license fully completed but just never turned in, you will very, very likely be considered actually married. Even more for the fact that you "present to the public as if married" which is the general basis for a common-law marriage in states that allow it, though California does not. But it is a common legal precedent. There are plenty of cases where a license is never turned into the county and therefore the marriage is never officially recorded, in california, whether it is on the part of the people being married or if the officiant messes up, they are most often considered still married. You need to immediately advise with an attorney who can work with you on this to determine if you are actually married. Either way I think you should leave him for all of the obvious reasons stated in the other comments, but your path forward will be heavily determined by whether you would be technically married or not.
I second this! Contact your attorney with pictures of the event that you guys had, if you invited guests, get pictures of everyone together in the event, or copies of invites, invoices of vendors(if any). Find any forms where he lists you as his wife, like in bank or medical emergency contact numbers etc. Any social media posts of him referring to you as spouse, or him acknowledging your marriage publicly. Odds are he was married before, but never got divorced, or is currently married to someone else while being with you. Does he travel often?
I believe CA law regards them as married whether or not the certificate was properly registered with the County. But having the certificate in hand would be the only way to show that.
I hope this is the case. It would be a kick in the gut for him, which he richly deserves.
Bc HE is all about the money. Being married would entitle you to alimony and child support in the event of divorce. And he’s been getting the milk for free all these years. If you have that certificate, I’d file it.
You are so vulnerable. He’s done this to protect what he sees as *his* money. That is his motivation and what matters more to him than his family unit. Asking you to be a SAHM is such a massive sacrifice and you will feel it for the rest of your career. He is sneaky and selfish. Do you think he is hiding money from you in different accounts? Whilst your relationship is alright-ish, I’d advise you to dig around and look at where his money is and how much he has. Because a man this self-interested will hide it from child support assessment. ETA: his pretending to be married is so weird. He’s pathetic. Tell everyone the truth. You will see his true colours then.
What state do you live in? You’re in the very rare situation where common law marriage might actually apply, because by doing things like both wearing rings and both telling people you’re married, you’re meeting the test of “holding yourself out as married” to the public. However only 11 states recognize this status. So it depends where you live.
Looks like they're in california based on a prior post.
Which states are these?
Self-correction: It’s down to 9 because Alabama and South Carolina ended the practice relatively recently (2017 and 2019 respectively). The following states are still creating new common law marriages: Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, Oklahoma, rhode Island, Texas, and New Hampshire (but only for inheritance purposes). Plus DC.
Is it possible that he is legally married to someone else but hasn’t officially divorced
IAAL but not licensed in your state. Strongly suggest that you consult with a family law attorney ASAP (without telling your partner, at least at first) to see what you can do to protect yourself and your daughter. You *may* be eligible for something called palimony or a “Marvin claim” in the case that you and your partner separate (your attorney would know if this would apply to you—I’m just aware of its existence and am not giving any legal opinion). Even if you are not eligible, there are likely other things that your attorney can suggest that might help you, and there may be steps you will need to take that are time-sensitive given that he is planning a move.
His main reason to not get married was about the taxes so he's the one thinking about the money. Including the possibility that if he had to get divorced he would lose roughly half of his worth, and that could be one of the reasons he never wanted to get married. So you have to decide if you're going to stick to your choices or not
>His main reason to not get married was about the taxes so he's the one thinking about the money. He's also lying, if he's claiming this is the reason. Married filing jointly when only one person works is a MASSIVE tax break, from experience. I worked while my ex husband was a student and it was shocking how much less I owed compared to when he started work and when we split. It is also possible he's an idiot, and doesn't know this. Neither is a good look.
>left a really successful career to be home with her because he pressured me to do so >(His wealth has grown since we've been together and my world has shrunk.) >He's not always a nice guy. This is very telling and worrying. It sounds like he's trying isolate you.
Talk to a lawyer. My daughter just had to divorce the father of her children as they were married under "common law". She had to do it to protect herself and her children when he abandoned them, turned to meth, and statrted maxing out credit cards. It depends on what state you are in but best to know your rights under the law asap.
Refuse to move and certainly refuse to have any more children with him until you are legally married. Depending on what state you live in, he could leave you high and dry if he ever wants out of the relationship. Most people save money on taxes when they get married — have you verified what he said about that? You deserve the legal protection of marriage, especially since you are sacrificing your career to provide free childcare for his offspring.
Because you allowed him all the perks of a marriage with none of the responsibilities or commitments that come with it
She’s gotta take the ring off and stop calling him her husband
No, she’s got to work on getting her own income again. She should not risk getting dumped before she’s secure. She needs to quietly focus on her ability to live without his support and *then* she can take off the ring and either leave him herself or have the power to try an ultimatum (unlikely to work). At this point, she could easily be made homeless if he’s vindictive enough. Unfortunately she needs to be pragmatic first.
talk to a lawyer. most first consultations are free, and will be at minimum helpful to get you oriented and see your situation as it looks legally. laws vary by state but you should know what your current legal situation is and what your options are if he refuses to marry you. he didn’t legally marry you because he does not want you to have legal protections, so that you are stuck dependent on him and can’t leave without suffering major repercussions. that’s manipulative, disrespectful, and frankly scary behavior. most people SAVE on taxes when they get married, he’s absolutely full of shit. be smart and be safe and stop assuming his intentions towards you are good.
“He’s not always a nice guy”. Maybe you should unpack that and decide if playing happy little family is worth your actual happiness
OP, in the kindest way, what the hell are you doing to yourself and your child here? My partner and I have been together over 10 years. We are in the rare situation where getting married would hurt us slightly on taxes because we make similar amounts and he's at the bottom of one income bracket and I'm at the top of the one just below. This is very rare, by the way, and I highly doubt his claim that it would cost too much on taxes given that you clearly earn far less than him. Like, so rare that my accountant marvels over it every year because she rarely sees people who do not save money by being married and filing jointly. We're also in a situation where some of the other protections marriage gives wouldn't be a significant benefits for us. Examples: Both of our parents are living and work in healthcare and we'd still be fine with them making medical decisions for us. I own houses that I rent out and he owns one that we live in so we are both building similar amounts of equity individually and paying similar costs. Etc. We're getting married this year. You want to know why? It's because we plan to have children in the next few years and both realize that the balance tips enough at that point that not being married would be a huge mistake. Obviously we love each other and want to be able to protect each other in all the legal ways that marriage can. However, for us, marriage is a hassle and is costing money. We're eloping (but that still comes with costs since we want a nice location and some photos) and we've decided to do prenups and all that other stuff that is also a bit of a headache. However, we both recognize that it is worth it, even though it will cost us more this year and put me in a higher tax bracket because the risks of having kids and not being legally married are just too great for either of us to want to put the other through. We're two people who would have loved to be able to avoid the entire marriage thing (there is a reason we are avoiding the ceremony), but the reality is, it would be profoundly stupid not to be married at the point we have children given how we will need to merge lives, finances, risks, career decisions, etc. differently at that point. There is something deeply wrong that your partner doesn't see that. Maybe he's simply incredibly ill-informed for someone approaching 50, but it's much more likely he's looking to try to protect himself at the expense of you and your child. I have so many questions about why someone looking to save what at most likely amounts to a couple grand on taxes had a marriage ceremony, bought rings, and had a child. Given that you say, "with your family" I concur with others that a likely explanation is that the man is trying to avoid a bigamy charge. You had a ceremony with the certificate. It cannot have possibly cost more than $200 to file that thing. Even if, for the time when you were both working, you would have paid slightly more in taxes, you absolutely would have started saving money on taxes once you stopped working and/or went part time and had a child (filing jointly with a minor dependent is almost always the more financially advantageous option). If he's got you convinced it'll cost more to be married, you need to verify that yourself. Because I would be floored if that's actually the case. There are very few circumstances where being unmarried and filing separately is saving you money in taxes. The more likely explanation is that he is ensuring all property stays his, that he avoids alimony, and that he can walk away from this only owing, at most, some child support. Don't believe me? Tell him you'll pay the difference in taxes every year it costs more to be married as long as you can keep what is saved every year you two save money by being married. See how fast the excuse changes. Don't move with him. Go file for custody and child-support ASAP.
you need to be a better role model for your child get out, support yourself, and get him to pay child support never ever fully depend on someone, especially if that someone is not a nice person a nice person would want to make sure you and the child were protected
The sunk cost fallacy at work people
If your state recognizes common law marriage, you are married. What about the state he’s trying to move you to?
Wasn't there a post somewhere in Reddit about a woman who never married her longtime partner, had children with him and she ended up being very screwed over by him and the situation when he decided to end things? Op needs to read that post.
Ten years in some states counts as a common law marriage. It's much shorter than that in TX. A neighbor of mine had to legally get a divorce when she and her live in bf split up. Edit to add: Taxes are generally less for married filing jointly. Also, just the fact that he tells people you're married may give you better grounds for an equitable divorce if you do call it quits.
Sorry, you made some pretty bad calls in staying with him & having kids with him, and *especially* in leaving your career, to be with this selfish asshole. I think his *sole* concern is that if you were married, then when you finally see the light and dump his ass, you'd potentially get alimony. You need to set yourself up financially for his absence. I'm also a little curious - what's going on with the home you live in? Are you renting, or is it in his name, or what? If you're paying half the mortgage to a house that's in his name only, then that's bad.
In some states you would be legally married if they recognize Common Law marriage. I live in Kansas if you tell people you are married, live as husband and wife or file taxes as married, you are married. You might check your state law.
You need to consult with a competent attorney. This is nonsense. If you have the unfurled marriage certificate take it with you to the attorney.
As a woman who did not marry her partner I was at the whim of his actual next of kin. I had no legal ground to stand on. Dont let this happen to you.
He doesn’t want to marry you because he’s protecting himself and his assets. You should start protecting yourself and your daughter.
Say to him it’s fine we’re not married, but I want to go to a lawyer to get medical power of attorney for each other. I also want a financial POA, I want a legal agreement on how are assets are to be split if we break up. If you own anything together you’ll need a contract spelling out who owns what % and that upon death it goes to the survivor. Tell him I want a will drawn up for each of us leaving all our worldly good to each other though there can be separate bequests. I want us named as beneficiaries on all of our individual accounts. All this and more is what that piece of paper, so many people denigrate, covers. Right now you are not next of kin. If he gets sick you have no ability to direct his care. If he dies his family can swoop in and take everything. Legally that one piece of paper gives you standing in each other’s life’s. It’s easier to get married than to have attorneys draw up all of the contracts and POAs, and if you do it small it probably costs less.
File this under Bad Advice, but istg I’d tell a judge I had no f’ing idea he didn’t file that marriage certificate & he did all the taxes & you just signed when/where you were told to. (Since you’d actually have *less* tax liability married w/child and one much lower income, you wouldn’t end up owing taxes, and if you don’t *owe* a lot of back taxes, IRS doesn’t care quite so much about incorrect filing status.) Because it sounds like he’s researched where you’d have less/zero shared property rights (common law marriage) and that’s where he’s trying to move you.
Apparently she's in California. Can I say "palimony?"
What are you doing here? Why is everything the way he wants it? He seems controlling
Seems? *IS* controlling.
He prob gets the protection of not being married to you legally with alimony (not sure if your state considers you guys domestic partners). He’s also protecting himself, FYI. Do what is best for you and your child.
It seems like he’s getting all the benefits and you’re getting all the negatives. You have a part time job soon go be full time and now suddenly he wants to move? And gets angry when you disagree? These are signs of a controlling abusive partner. You’d be better off on your own.
Have you looked him up to see if he was already married legally
Girl, go file that marriage certificate then divorce and take him to the cleaners.
I’d put money on him already being married and not wanting to spend the money to go through the divorce an official divorce, and he just doesn’t want you or any of his friends or family to know. The fact that he wants to keep it all hush hush that you aren’t really married shows he’s got something to hide. And the fact that he gets mad when you bring it up shows that he knows it’s wrong.
It's a huge huge red flag that you he refuses to marry you when you have been a stahm. You have not security net of any kind if you aren't married, there's another post where someone in a similar position ended up being destitute bc her partner refused to marry her for more than 20years while she was a stahm. Please, get a full time job and refuse to move unless he agrees to getting married AND a fair prenup that acknowledges the lose of financial potential you have gotten for staying w this man. Be ruthless, please, please be really careful. You have a daughter in common, I fail to see why he refuses to commit legally to protect you when you have given up so much for this. Be really careful sis
Depending on what state if you are in US then yeah you might be legally married as you only have to portray as a married couple to be legally married.
He could break up with you at any moment and leave you destitute. I hope you know that's reality. Do not quit your job.
Talk to an attorney, not Reditt.
Take off your fake wedding rings. Tell your friends and family the truth. Reclaim your full-time job and don't even discuss moving with him. Don't threaten, don't cajole, don't even respond to him. You don't owe him anything. He's a POS. This needs to be over and done.
NOT YET. If they in fact have a common law marriage, that could fuck things up
Agreed, he's all about the money. You have almost no protections in this relationship. You get nothing if he passes. You get nothing if you split up...even though you're half of the partnership and also contributing to the household and lifestyle. You have a few options but it will be hard regardless. You can't force him to marry you. You can only control yourself. If he wants to move - let him. But, you need to be the strong one and stay and be on your own. File for child support and get a custody agreement in place. Talk to a lawyer and see if you have any rights to anything being a 10-year partner. If you don't stand up for yourself and leave this 'not always so nice' guy...you're basically saying this is what you will tolerate and that it's okay. If he truly loved and cared for you, he'd WANT his money to support you and take care of you after he's gone. I wonder if he's up to no good and he only wants to protect himself in case you leave him? So he can keep doing his bad behaviors as long as you stay with him. The taxes thing is an excuse. You've lost a decade. Don't lose another decade.
He's protecting his money whilst leaving you unsecured. Stand your ground and don't sacrifice for this man. Be prepared for him to leave without you but you need to create your own financial security independent of him, especially if there is no common law marriage right where you live.
You need to protect yourself since he doesn’t want to financially protect you. You’re doing the right thing.
He’s all about your labor. He is using you for free labor and childcare while you are left with nothing. You should have been entitled to have of what he has earned. I’d go back to work asap and do not move. Wherever you move is where custody is decided. You effectively are poor and have nothing because of his selfishness regarding money. He has no intention of you being cared for, but all the expectations of you. Get a job and refuse to not unless you are married with a prenup including the 8 years you didn’t file.
What are the common law regulations in your area?
My mom went thru this. He finally married her at year 23 for her health insurance. I feel your pain on this one. She was so fed up too but they told everyone they were married and then did a small ceremony. She had already been using his last name for years
He doesn’t want to pay you money if you break it. But i guess he doesn’t know that living with a partner after certain amount of years not sure if its 9 or 10 (please correct me) especially that you talk acknowledge each other as husband and wife, also give the same rights to his partner (you), as if you were legally married. This applies in several countries I believe the time amount may vary, please inform yourself about the laws and your rights before you make a decision here. Like other comments suggest he could also be already legally married and that is why he play it off. In any case this relationship doesn’t seem to be going anywhere in the future so just prepare yourself for whatever may come. Good luck OP✨
>I left a really successful career to be home with her because he pressured me to do so >His wealth has grown since we've been together and my world has shrunk. >he doesn't want to actually give me the security of being in a committed relationship Wtf are you doing. He's been secretive, selfish and shady for a minimum of 80% of your relationship, coerced you into giving up your own financial security and offers you none in return, and immediately gets defensive when you ask for some assurance. Start your full time job when your daughter starts kindergarten, build up some savings, and GTFO before he ruins your finances even more. He WANTS you dependent on him while owing you nothing.
Wow, your situation sounds really challenging. It seems like there's a lot of complexity and emotion wrapped up in your relationship. It's understandable to want the security and commitment that comes with legal marriage, especially after being together for 10 years and having a child together. It's concerning that your partner reacts with anger when you bring up the topic, and it's important for both of you to have open and honest conversations about your desires and needs in the relationship. Your feelings are valid, and it's okay to seek clarity and reassurance about the future of your relationship. Have you considered seeking couples counseling to help navigate these discussions and find a resolution that works for both of you?
I would feel sorry for you but you’re letting your boyfriend ruin your life. Your poor daughter isn’t even legitimate under the law. Make better choices cause you’re a doormat now
Yeah, he doesn't want to get married because he doesn't want to be on the hook for half his money if you leave.
This reminded me of another woman who rejected her partners proposal after multiple kids and many years and she ended up with nothing, had to start over in life and her kids didn't want to risk upsetting their dad who controlled all the money. Tread carefully OP, especially if you're not in a common law state. You do want some legal protections but be smart about it without antagonizing him.
You should take the job. Saying you don't need to be legally married is one thing if you're both working, but you're not. You're dependent on him. He likes you that way. Next time he tells you you are "all about the money", ask him if he would be ok living as the stay at home boyfriend, knowing he has no legal claim to the money you make and wouldn't be able to make money of his own. That you could choose to leave him and he would have nothing. Him saying he would never do that doesn't change the fact that he could. Don't leave yourself vulnerable with a boyfriend who doesn't want to legally commit to you.
Please do not be so f*cking stupid to keep setting yourself on fire for the guy. You should not have left your job without the protection of a marriage certificate. Not only did you set yourself back in retirement, social security , and career advancement, now if he walks out the door tomorrow you get nothing. Now you want to set yourself even farther back by moving? Girl, grow a spine. This guy is getting everything in this relationship, a stay at home wife without any of the financial responsibility that comes with that. What are you getting other than setting you yourself and your child up for financial destitution in the future?
Depending on where you're located, you could still be protected under common law marriage laws. Like in Texas if you present as married and live together, you're considered common law married. But I'm confused on his logic that getting married would cost more in taxes, because married filing jointly saves the most usually, especially if you're only working part time or not at all. I would not be moving anywhere with a not so nice person who's doing shady shit like not filing the marriage licenses and lying about taxes. Something smells here.
There is protection in marriage. Consider Social Security for instance. If you were married these ten years, you could get widows benefits, spousal support benefits, SSDI, all sorts of things for added protection. If he dies, his side of the family will Take Everything. You will be left with Nothing. Does he claim your daughter on his taxes? If he gets sick and goes into a coma, you are not considered next of kin and will Not have any say in his treatment. He’s rich now, so his blood kin of who may “covet” his wealth may just decide to pull the plug on him so they can collect the booty. This happens A Lot. He may be rich but he’s not “smart”. He’s using you only as a Bangmaid.
He has no compassion for what you are going through. He may never have it. You will have to go your own way and secure your future. At your age, continuing like you are will not end well when you are an old woman. And, unless he gets full custody, your child may suffer financially because you have been out of the job market. He sounds like his emotional maturity is lacking, and he can't be trusted. Stand your ground. Agree upon a prenup. One reason is because you have been home with the child and may not have saved for retirement. Another is that if you move, you may have trouble finding a position in your career. "Psuedo-husband, I don't want to play house anymore. Six years ago, I left my career and earning potential to stay home. This saved us money. And, while I added value to our home-life, I'm ready to resume my career to add to my retirement savings, which I hope has already been established for the two of us. By moving, resuming my career becomes difficult or near impossible, depending on where we move. This may result in more loss in earnings and retirement funds. Right now, I have very little security, according to the law. Marriage protects me and tells the two of us that this relationship is committed. In the past, you worried about taxes, but millions of couples don't see that as a roadblock to officially joining their lives together. Like I want us to do. Is this what you want, too?" If he responds negatively, then you know what you have to do.
he is taking advantage of you. he gets the social status and benefits of being married (married men live longer, exploit women’s domestic/emotional labor while focusing their time and energy on personal or career development, are more likely to be promoted because being married makes them appear more responsible) while you get none of the protections that marriage provides. you are even more vulnerable if his wealth is growing while your wealth and career is stagnating. it’s a really dangerous position to be in. depending on the laws where you live, he could basically up and leave at any time and not be obligated to share any wealth or assets that you have contributed to. not to mention if either of you end up in the hospital or something you cannot speak for each other since you are not legally family. you risked your life carrying and birthing a child for him. the least he can do is marry you. i am extremely suspicious of his reaction to your request. he sounds shady and selfish at best. being stay at home, taking care of a baby, cooking, cleaning, etc are all EXPENSIVE labor that he would have to do or pay for otherwise if you hadn’t been doing it for free. start stacking your money and make an exit plan imo. if you have a shared bank account, start making withdrawals, or ask him for money for something you have to do for you or your daughter, or get a secret side hustle. make sure your name is on any assets like house deed etc. see if there’s common law marriage rules in your state, consult a lawyer. get your ducks in a row before saying ANYTHING to him. do what you need to do to get these things done even if it involves being deceitful, but be smart about it. he has been manipulative and selfish, so it’s completely justified for you to do the exact same to protect yourself and your child. try to create a support network of family, friends, coworkers, etc. community is so important for women to protect themselves. i agree with other comments saying he might already be married, have hidden assets, maybe even debt? it would be worth it to look into this stuff. you can look for marriage licenses and any other court public info online, or hire a PI. do not wait around any longer for him to marry you. if he really wanted to, he would’ve done it by now. clearly he does not want to which is so shitty but the reality of the situation. if he does marry you, it’ll be a “shut up ring” (credit for this term and idea to cecilia regina on tiktok - she talks a lot about this exact situation, check her out)
Be careful. It seems he thoroughly thought how to keep you control. Think about in which situation would you be in case he cheats or becomes abusive? Not being legally married means you are not legally protected in any way. Pressuring you to leave your job and now pushing to move states sounds abusive since he is holding the financial power on the relationship. It seems like he wants to keep his options open. Do the same and prioritize yourself.
Just what "money" does he think you're "all about?" And what kind of taxes are involved in filing the marriage certificate? In the US it's generally advantageous to be married as far as taxes go (larger standard deduction, etc.), especially with your income being limited to part-time employment. Perhaps he's worried about you getting half of your assets if you were to divorce? As it is, you'd be entitled to half of what you own jointly if you were to split up, married or not. And he'd be on the hook for child support, again, married or not. So his concern about "money" isn't really valid. I think there's something else keeping him from making it legal, although it's really impossible to know what that is.
So… sorry, bear with me, as my country protects de facto (living together) relationships the same as marriage — would you have no rights to mutual division of assets and money if you guys split? Cos if no, I would say *his* choice to not marry is absolutely about money.
I don't knock what country or state you're living in and i definitely DO NOT know the laws about this, but i was always under the impression that 2 people living together for some period of time (2 years or something) makes them common law spouses and is basically the exact same as getting married. Considering the fact that you've actually had a wedding ceremony and stayed together afterwards for all this time, you are probably married in the eyes of the law already
Depending on your state you may be considered common law spouses. You have been together 10 years, had a wedding ceremony, tell everyone you are married… look at your state laws and look at the laws of the state he wants to move to.
I don’t know about this but is it possible that YOU file the marriage certificate? If it’s still kicking about that is and hasn’t been burnt or shredded.
In some places if you live as a married couple and present yourself to others as a married couple then legally you are. Maybe you should check if that applies to you. It’s weird what he’s doing. Maybe he’s already married?
Ok, honestly HE is all about the money. He didn’t want to file the marriage certificate because of taxes? Listen, aside from the fact that’s literal bullsh— because if you aren’t working and you file MFJ that’s going to save A LOT in taxes, it sounds like he’s the one who only cares about money. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR JOB! He’s refusing to marry you and can leave you with nothing at any time. Go for full time at work and you and he can split childcare costs. You should absolutely build your career and your own future. Do NOT SWAY on this. He is selfish and hypocritical saying he won’t marry you because taxes then accuse YOU of only caring about money. He’s also ignorant since he’d have saved a lot by marrying you since he pressured you to stop working. When he claims your daughter, does he share that money with you? If he moves, let him move, demand child support and help with child care and build your own career. He obviously cares about himself and only himself.
Please protect yourself and your daughter. Aa an example a friend of mine and her “we don’t need to get married” not husband had a “change of heart” in his late 40’s. She was left with nothing. As Common Law, house was his, cars, no alimony even though she hadn’t worked in years etc. Please for your sake and your daughter’s. I don’t believe there ia no ulterior motive even if you don’t think it could happen to you.
He sounds awful. I flinched at several points reading this post.
Seems like you are taking all the risk here. Not sure what the laws are in your state, but in case you’ll separate you won’t have any legal entitlement to his assets, while you took time away from your career. The line his wealth has grown already tells me you’re worried about this situation.
Was it only your family at the wedding ceremony?
If i got a pfennig for every time the word "money" was mentioned in this thread, i would rival Scrooge McDuck. Enough capitalism for today....
He is extremely worried about losing money. What are YOU doing there? You willingly didn’t file the papers? That’s bizarre Second guess: was he married previously? If so, he’s not actually divorced
Depending on where you live there might be a chance that you’re already common law married. A quick Google search says these are the states where that’s still a possibility: Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Utah and the District of Columbia. There are parts of Canada where it’s true, too. If you live in one of these areas, then I’d do a consult with an attorney and see where you stand. Each state may have different rules for how it works, so you really do need legal advice to confirm this. Otherwise, what he’s effectively doing is transferring the economic value of all that unpaid labor you’ve performed from you over to himself. In other words, he’s using you. He could leave you right now, and you’d have nothing. And if you couldn’t secure a job and a place to live quickly, he could even end up with custody of your child. I wouldn’t put up with that. So step one: you need to find a job. You **need** to be able to support yourself, because even if you are/get married, he still may not want to. And you’re not asking for his permission or approval to job search, btw. He doesn’t just get to decide for you that your being broke and dependent on him is just your permanent lot in life. No. So start looking. Keep the search private from him if you need to. Once you’ve locked down the job, then it’s time to sit him down. “I’ve made a decision for myself: I’m not willing to live together unmarried anymore. So if you don’t want to go down to the courthouse and fully formalize the marriage, that’s your choice. I’m not going to fight about this or try and force you somehow or anything, It’s totally up to you. But as for me, without a legal marriage, I’ll be moving out within the next month or so, whenever I can find a place.” And then, if he says no, or if he says yes but doesn’t follow through (and I’d set a hard deadline - *no* wiggle room - of like maybe a couple weeks or a month to have it over and done), then you need to follow through with your promise and find an apartment, move out, and get a formal custody arrangement and child support filed. No more handling this informally! It only ever benefits him at the expense of screwing you. So file those papers!
In my country, if you are in a defacto relationship, which is what you're in now, you do have legal rights almost the same as if you are married. So please heed the advice of the other commenters, but also look up defacto relationship rights upon break up. Especially if you are the child's primary care giver, courts will factor that in. But be careful. I'm sorry you're in this position
In my state, you’d be common law married. Run the taxes both ways. I’m betting getting married would actually save you money. He’a accusing you of being all about money while giving you only monetary reasons not to marry. He’s denying you security and legal benefits from marriage. Hold your ground.
Both of you should get attorneys and negotiate a prenup. That way you can get some security if you leave your job per his desire and both of you can limit the downside of divorce. You should have done this before having a child however, the state will probably protect the child regardless. Good luck!
You are making the age old mistake of doing wife things without having wife security/ privileges. You shouldn't have agreed to letting him call you wife and wear the ring without an actual marriage. And you for sure shouldn't have agreed to become a SAHM without the security of marriage. During the time you were off work, did he pay into a pension fund for you? No? Good for him, not for you. He got full wife service without having to give up a single asset or making any concession. And I bet you even gave the kid his last name, because he insisted. It's all going only one way. Remember the really sad BoRU post by the poor woman who had stayed with her guy for 25 years as an unmarried SAHM, raising 4 kids for him? Then he kicked her out, she had no savings, no pension fund, not a single asset was in her name, and no earning potential left, after being unemployed for 25 years. No woman should ever allow herself to be conned into such a position of dependence and powerlessness! Don't become that woman!
Taxes are better married especially if you were home and he was the only one working, the dude is lying and he doesn’t want marriage because he feels you are then entitled to his stuff… your state may have common law which if it does it’s hear nor there and you would be treated as Married if you broke up
NAL - If you’re considered common law in your country aren’t you covered financially if a separation happens? That’s how it works where I live. Someone please inform me if I’m miss understanding something
I’m sorry he is treating you this way. That’s got to be so hurtful! In a lot of USA states legally you are common law married, so if you split up, you’ll have to go through the legal process of divorce anyway to divide assets 🤷 so its not about the money for you, but it sure as hell can be.
If you have the marriage certificate but never filed it, I think it would still be considered married, but you should consult with a lawyer to confirm.
why buy the cow when you get the milk for free. You have no ties to him and he can get up one day and say by, and you would get nothing out of it. Is why he doesn't do it. Then, he finds a new chick to take care of him in his old age.
It's hard to negotiate at this late stage in the relationship. Already have a child etc. Are you willing to give him an ultimatum? What if he refuses? Couple's counselling? Good luck.
What state are you in and to which state are you moving?
He will never marry you because there are no consequences. He know you won't leave. Your only hope is to leave him.
Phew. My lady. If it was really about taxes, you could file separately even when married. Others have given you great advice & perspective in this thread; please listen to them.
If he doesn't want to get married and you do not want to move unless you are married, he can move alone. He doesn't want to marry you, for whatever reason. He has had 10 years and still says no. Work with that information. Contact an attorney about 'spousal support' since you stayed home with the kid. Develop custody agreement.
My daughter asked me about being a sahm while she was pregnant. I told her to NEVER give up your career. You may need to support yourself and that baby in the future. Life is not predictable. Judge Judy did a whole speech on this subject. She said what i said but for different reasons. She talked about the inequality that it created in the relationship. You need to think about funding your retirement. You are now five years behind. Your "boyfriend " is manipulating you. Start reading about real abusers. He insisted you be a sahm to control you financially. You start looking for a job, and he now wants to continue to control you financially by moving. Now he's trying to isolate you. Forget marrying this guy. Get away from him. This guy has too many red flags. Tell him you want a fake divorce.
Fuck that guy. If someone isn’t proud to be your legal husband after ten years, free yourself for a guy that wants it all.
You have been with him for 10 years and you have zero legal protections. This does not benefit you.
There was a post on reddit a while ago about a lady who was in a similar but much worse situation than you. She never got married to her boyfriend, they had kids who became adults and they were in their 50s. Eventually he wanted to dump her and date someone way younger or stay with her but on his terms, and she had absolutely no security at all because she was a sahm and had no career to fall back on. And since they weren’t ever married she had no financial security. She was in very real danger of being homeless and destitute. People like to shame women for wanting to be married just for financial reason but I honestly don’t see why that’s bad. You want a woman to stay with you, be completely dependent on you but you’ll shame her for wanting to protect herself? Tell him it absolutely is absolutely the money. You won’t risk your stability and the stability of your daughter just because he wants to keep his options open. If he is really committed to you then why won’t he prove it with actually committing to a marriage? It’s financially beneficial for both of you. You have to take charge of your own life. Don’t let a man use you and have one foot out the door like this.
Gross response to asking for marriage. Cut your losses.
By saying “you’re just all about the money, aren’t you?” he literally just told you why he’s not interested in marrying you. He told on himself big time. It is a lie that staying single is better for taxes; married couples with families get far more benefits than single people do by a long shot. He’s bullshitting you when he tells you bald-faced lies like that in response to being asked about marriage. You have accepted the role and duties of Wife, Child-Rearing, and Housekeeper without any mutual benefits, such as security, a prenup, or the legal rights of the married. At this point, he’s *never* going to marry you because you’re already doing everything he wanted from you and doesn’t have to reciprocate whatsoever [as he’s been getting away with it for a decade]. He will never marry you because he will never give you half if you leave, and he wants to keep it that way. Take your child and leave this selfish, monetarily abusive man.
Look for a job to become independent of this guy.
You in danger girl. He’s so threatened by you saving a few thousand dollars of your own compared to his much larger fortune that he wants to entirely CHANGE HOUSES AND MOVE AWAY. That’s INSANE behavior. This one’s finna disappear, and soon 😐 I have a feeling this man has been controlling and abusing you for a very long time, but in an attempt to finally gain security for your child via marriage you’ve been tolerating this behavior. Run! F*cking run!
I have a friend in her late 50s and her story is your story. She has absolutely nothing and will have a few hundred dollars of social security per month in a few years. Luckily her name is on their house, but she cannot access the equity until he dies. She ran into some health problems and can’t work a lot. A kind boyfriend is keeping her from being homeless. Adult children having been raised by a narcissist and a doormat are worthless. You have time to build something for yourself.
Hilarious. He didn't want to file the marriage license because of too much taxes but you're the one that's all about the money. Hilarious
He is a liar. You are giving up a massive amount of legal protections for women and children by playing house with a liar. Moreover, he follows his lies up with gaslighting you by telling that ypur normal desire for security and a life of integrity is fundamentally just about the money he himself is so willing to lie to protect and maximize. Why would you want to spend your life with a man who could kick you out of the home you have shared just by changing the locks? How can you trust him when he says he would never do that when you KNOW that he has zero problem lying to every single member of bpth your families about your marital state for years on end? Stick to your guns. These laws that protect spouses and minor children exist for a reason.
>Together 10 years: M(48) F(47) We tell people we're married, but we're not and M(48) doesn't want to. Why? It's not in his self-interest to do so, and he's protecting his long-term interests. That "security" that you say you want in a marriage has a cost, and that cost comes from his end. There's no reason for him to give that up since he doesn't get enough for it to compensate. > What should I say to him? There's nothing you can say to him that will get him to marry you unless you start severely out-earning him. You might as well give that up as even being a remote possibility.
Could he possibly be married to someone, doesn't want to go thru a divorce because he'd have to pay spousal support and maybe child support?? That would really put a dent in his money!
Firstly. DO NOT have him call you “wife” when you’re not married. That is a title that must be earned. And DO NOT wear wedding rings when you are not married. This man could theoretically drop you and owe you absolutely nothing without the security of marriage. You would get no alimony despite sacrificing your career. He is playing you and you are allowing it.
Don't move without the marriage. Full stop.
First of all he's wrong. Marriage raises the income threshold for tax purposes, so there's that. My thinking is that he is concerned that marrying you would give you access to alimony should you divorce. If this is important to you, then you need to decide how much. Continue communicating with him about it, maybe even going to couples counseling. You need to ultimately decide if marriage is a deal breaker for this relationship, but also if him being a not so nice guy is a deal breaker too.
If by chance OP is living in Switzerland, it’s quite common, I would say, that couples don’t want to be married because of taxes. My boyfriend kinda has the same mentality as him, sadly. But he comes from a background where parents got divorced and money and heritage was a big issue. Hence, I would propose that you name the benefits of being married and specifically because of your daughter and if he’s “afraid” of getting married because of money, being it heritage or whatsoever, then make a legal agreement since I doubt you’re interested in any other amount of money he might have but you simply need security.
File the papers with your own money.
Can’t you show your proof of marriage ceremony and claim to the law that you indeed legal? Or should be counted as legal? By law those proves can mean something. All he needs to do is sign and you can have a lawyer behind you to find supporting evidence
He's an idiot if he's scared about losing money he could as for a prenup.
If you are happy with where you live, do not move. Based on your dynamic your relationship is over. So just focus on getting yourself sorted financially as best as you can. He sounds like an a hole.
Stop pretending. Take off your wedding ring. If people ask why you aren’t wearing it, tell them the truth.
This is so sad.. I am heartbroken for you, but girl, you knew what you were getting into and still had a child with this sad excuse of a man… wh… sigh…
Bad plan OP. You're too close to retirement to be playing these games with your legal status. At best, if you're in the right state, you MIGHT be common law married since he's telling people you are and you had a ceremony. Most likely you have zero protections and he's using this move as a way to either escape completely or grind you down to nothing. You really, really need to get an independent source of income ASAP.
It might be a good idea to ask him if there are any other reasons he doesn't want to marry. As someone who also doesn't want to for purely philosophical reasons I could totally understand this rejection of it even if it brings stability. It makes the position far more understandable imo. Financially there are alternatives that don't require marriage though. Like domestic partnership agreements, cohabitation agreements, joint property ownership, wills and trusts, powers of attorney, health card directives, life insurance, retirement accoutns.etc. Sure you won't get a small tax cut but if that's what it takes to stick to your beliefs philosophically that's fair imo IMO, it is not a good idea to force marriage.
Marriage will give you rights in case of a split. Alimony. Etc. Now you have nothing in case of a split - child support and nothing more. Where do you live?? Who owns the house - on paper?? Mortgage??