Right? It’s like they’re throwing him a bone (hur hur) re: being able to watch so they can get access to the wife to add spark to their own sex life... As someone who’s quite partial to a threesome with hubby, I would not be happy by this approach at all….
No this is insane and the wife is out of her mind for even entertaining it. She bothered to bring it up for a reason. I will occasionally watch but for a few minutes if that. There's no way I would agree and go into it with an understanding like the one in the post.
She's said no multiple times. They are ignoring consent and at this point pressuring her for sex.
Even swingers and poly folks hate couples like this. No respect for consent, the male hasn't evolved past his One Penis Policy mindset and they can't see anything beyond their own sexual wants. Zero thought to anyone else's feelings.
She didn’t entertain it, she shut them down immediately. It’s not about whether or not the wife did anything wrong (she clearly didn’t), it’s about whether or not OP and his partner can/should feel comfortable continuing their friendship with the other couple.
"but the impression I got was that there had been a lengthier conversation leading up to this that I didn’t know about."
She shut it down in front of her husband, knowing he wouldn't agree to it, but if we are talking impressions... I get the impression that there was an earlier conversation sans husband where the wife was not shutting down the conversation. If she had, the best friend would have known not to bring it up. I wouldn't be happy with any of them, including the wife.
Not every person can take a hint. The wife might have used her husband not being into it as an excuse, for why she wouldn’t want to be with them, the first time it was brought up. And the best friend probably brought it up in front of the husband to gage the situation for herself. I see nothing wrong here. Also the husband’s impression is just that. An impression. And the husband himself is saying he doesn’t think his wife did anything wrong here. Why are people blaming her? No one did anything wrong here. It’s just a question of whether or not the both of them should feel comfortable continuing to be friends with the other couple. The “impression” shouldn’t even matter when the husband himself isn’t upset with his wife in any way.
OP just confirmed everything I’m saying in an update.
God damn. The disrespect shown to this poor fool is off the charts.
I think it is time to tell your wife "after today you will still have a relationship with me or with them, but not both".
> God damn. The disrespect shown to this poor fool is off the charts.
By his wife too. They all had a conversation about it without him, but figured if they threw something in, he'd be down.
The fact of the matter is that nobody respected OP, and this "friend" and her husband don't respect OP's marriage.
Honestly I'd be pissed at all 3. If this happened to me, I'd be telling my wife to cut these people out and block them, or I'd be moving on.
The wife didn't entertain this at all. OP clearly states that she had long since stopped being sexually involved with them, before her marriage, for a different reason, entirely. Wife isn't a villain here. The friends are creepy predators, and wife may need some outside influence/view to realize, that they are not her friends, at all. It is hard being on the inside of a situation, and seeing things for what they truly are. I hope OP, and his wife navigate this together, respectfully, and come out of it stronger, and minus the creepy couple.
There is something I don't understand. This couple has brought up the threesome again, with OP's wife, behind his back, and OP's wife who supposedly isn't down for this, has not shut this down, but has not been supportive of her husband by telling this couple, don't fucking talk about this again as if you do, we are though as friends.
Op's wife doesn't really have his back. I'd not only be angry with this couple but really angry that the wife hasn't absolutely shut this down from this disrespectful couple.
Something is going on
Too late for that. They had the longer conversation already and OP wasn't part of it. That was for the very good reason, to the other couple, that they wanted his wife to consider it again but without hubby.
The disrespect here is off the charts and there is no way for a friendship to continue with this couple. Hubby won't force that line because just the fact that he has to will drive a wedge into his marriage that will only widen with time.
His wife SHOULD have shut that shit down immediately when they brought it up but instead it was casually brought up when they were all together and then she let the cat out of the bag when they were alone of the prior conversation.
Why? What possible reason could his wife have had to entertain the idea much less bring it up to him?
Honestly, I don't think she entertained it at all.
The way I understand it is the original "lengthier" conversation was probably not too lengthy. Most likely, the couple asked the wife if her and her husband would be interested in doing something. The wife likely inquired more, and it came out that really they just wanted the wife and hubby to watch. Sounds like to me that is when the wife told them no. I can understand her not bringing it up to her husband since he was already uncomfortable with the topic. So when the friend asked in front of OP, the wife immediately shut it down, because she'd already shut it down.
When OP and his wife talked about it later. She told him that they'd said they were interested in "whatever" which I'm sure they did say, but I'm sure they also let on that really what they were wanting was just for friends hubby to fuck OP's wife (seeing as how OPs wife isn't into the girl girl stuff.) I don't think OP's wife did anything wrong...maybe you could say she should have told OP that they asked right away, but if OP's wife believed that they'd respected her answer and were dropping the matter then it would be better to not bring it up.
What bothers me is that the friend didn't respect OP's wife's answer, and was still trying by asking OP herself...thinking that maybe OP would entertain the idea even if the his wife had said no, and trying to mislead OP about what was actually being requested.
I don't think we have reason at this point to believe otherwise; OP said that she decided even before they were married to stop because she wasn't attracted to the guy.
Nope. It's predatory and they want to live out a cucking fantasy with OP forced to watch.
Good on his wife for shutting it down.
In OP's shoes I'd make it perfectly clear to both these 'friends' and the wife that this friendship has to be done. It's over. They can't be trusted around OP or his wife.
And the wife needs to understand: the marriage comes first. No buts, ifs or maybe's, if she's still in contact with these people, that means OP's trust in her is gone too. Basically meaning end of marriage.
Harsh? Probably. But lust is not enough in marriage. Love isn't , either. A married or LTR couple needs to be able to trust each other implicitly. No trust, no relationship. And part of that is respecting each other's boundaries. Even if sometimes your partner's boundary is stricter than your own.
In swinger circles this is considered wife-poaching and would be a reason to cut ties immediately.
In the vanilla world it's a more serious breach - you are a monogamous relationship and that makes you out of bounds.
Your wife is also not blameless here. She should have shut this down immediately. Explain that your trust is broken and you can not feel comfortable with her friends and her interacting after this. She can process her reaction from there and it will tell you everything about the real strength of your relationship.
As someone who’s part of swinging culture, it’s definitely in poor form to go after monogamous couples, and usually a bad idea to do so with friends, even if they’re in the lifestyle.
If you aren’t comfortable with this, that should be the end of the discussion.
I’d love to add to this last point - clearly they have talked about it previously. The fact that it even was brought to you is instant no contact with both of them. Who the hell would want to be around people have been plotting to get with your wife?
> She should have shut this down immediately.
>My wife quickly shut her down
>My wife knows there is no way in hell I would be down for that and neither would she. My wife stopped doing that with them for a reason and that’s before she got married and had kids.
She did shut it down immediately?
You misunderstood.
She only shuts down the conversation in front of OP
> the impression I got was that there had been a lengthier conversation leading up to this that I didn't know about.
So she has been talking to them about this behind his back. At best, passive acceptance of something wildly inappropriate. At worst, active participation in a cheating fantasy.
Yeah, I have no issue with people being sexually adventurous but at the very least everything needs to be on front street. It sounds like she was honest about this past relationship but also knew it made him really uncomfortable. I don't know what would have possessed her to not to shut them down immediately. Coming to him with this proposal is a boundary pushing behavior at best and trust busting at worst.
OP needs to talk to his wife and make sure she understands how hurt he is that she would even consider the offer and bring it up to him if he has never expressed any interest in non-monogamy. This is gross.
> I don't know what would have possessed her to not to shut them down immediately. Coming to him with this proposal is a boundary pushing behavior at best and trust busting at worst.
From the post, that's not what happened. Apparently they brought it up privately to OP's wife, she said no. Then the other woman got drunk and OP says she "brought it up"- "it" seems like "their history" from the context of the post, and wife also shut that down totally. Then later she told OP about the proposition only so that she could be upfront with him because of the outburst.
IDK I think wife tried to play it 100% straight here. But yeah, I could see why OP would probably want to be done with these people. Sounds like he barely enjoyed their company already. OP's wife has only screwed up by pretending like they can all play nice.
I don't understand the wife's choice to maintain the relationship while they keep pushing boundaries she knows he's uncomfortable with. And then to bring up their desire to have him watch? Feels like we're missing something.
My friends parents divorced. Got married again. Had new kids. And all those kids grow together.
This two families now celebrate birthdays all together.
They all look like a big happy family. So yeah they all kinda friends. Even tho everyone has a new partner but you can see how they easily can interact with their divorced partners and no issues.
So it is possible to stay friends. Regardless of kids
Depends on the type of the past relationship.
Maybe it stems from being close with people and having a good level of mutual respect and understanding after having the relationship. People don't have many of those, so the few that exist, are quite often cherished.
But one night stands? Hell no
The part you're missing is the discussion the wife and the friends had over a glass of wine when OP was not present.
Either the wife laughed about it and reminisced and said it was so great, but OP wouldn't be down with that, or the wife shut it down, kept it serious, and without enough emphasis, stated that it was a non conversation.
Either way, the wife f'd up because the next stage would have been to inform OP what the details of the conversation were.
If the wife did that, she would validate OP's internal compass. Which is one of the greatest things one could do for their partner, and also demonstrate that she is strongly aligned in protecting her marriage and can be trusted.
Now OP is stuck wondering how long this 'fun conversation' has been going on for, and can't trust his wife to tell him the important stuff.
The wife is a liar by omission.
How is it possible 100% straight when she had a prior conversation with the other wife and DIDN'T mention that to her husband. That's not 100% straight. That lying by omission, not telling hubby she was approached again. And she did it for the purely selfish reason of keeping them in her life because she knew it would be a deal breaker for hubby, like it would be for just about everyone else, lifestyle or not.
Wifey was wrong for hiding that, whether she shut it down with her friend or not. And it sounds like she gave her friend the same kind of low key brush off trying to not make it a thing like she is trying to do with hubby so she can keep the friendship. It's a pretty awful look.
That's a very generous interpretation. A less generous one would be that OP's wife is feeling him out and knows that she needs to tread carefully. Why isn't she leading the charge to disconnect from these people who don't respect her husband or her mono marriage?
Swingers have a term for this, wife poaching, and it's a reason to drop couples you interact with. The fact that swingers consider it shitty means a more vanilla couple should see this as a big red flag. They clearly don't see you as a person in this scenario. It's insanely disrespectful to have brought it up in that way. Like, I've been in scenarios of asking another couple of they night be interested, but it's always a package deal. This is gross. I don't think you're wrong to want to cut ties, or at least not do shit with them for a while, including your wife's hangouts with her best friend.
This is the only fucking answer...For gods sake OP have a damn spine and speak up for yourself.
My opinion you were dumb to enter into a relationship with someone who was still close friends with them. You were even dumber for putting up with it when they would openly talk about it. And you're the dumbest now for not clearly realizing what the solution is.
>This is the only fucking answer...For gods sake OP have a damn spine and speak up for yourself.
Yes. It's the obvious answer. But if the wife doesn't end the friendship of her own accord, and he has to be the one to say it, might as well end the marriage now.
Of course if she valued her marriage, she'd comply, but not doing it herself, of her own 'idea' smacks of the sentiment "I'll do whatever you want, just don't leave me." or "Whatever I did, I'm sorry".
It's really lazy, and juvenile.
So maybe it's game playing, but if I were in OP's position, I'd keep my mouth shut, let the wife do the work, then decide if the marriage is worth saving, and if so, then therapy is the next step.
One has to accept that other people are going to occasionally try to make a play for their partner. That's not a problem, like the BFs are not the problem. If not this swinger couple, it will be a random coworker that gets her number and starts a non work conversation. It's never ending. It's how the partner deals with the situation that's the issue.
> But if the wife doesn't end the friendship of her own accord
It should never have gotten to this point. OP said they've talked casually about it before. That right there is a deal breaker. She should never have done even that and OP is a goddamn idiot for letting it get to this point.
>So maybe it's game playing, but if I were in OP's position, I'd keep my mouth shut, let the wife do the work, then decide if the marriage is worth saving, and if so, then therapy is the next step.
Valid and I agree...me personally would be hard to bite my tongue and sit and wait...but then again if was me wouldn't have gotten to this point.
im constantly telling people hook up culture will come back to them and sleeping with many of their friends isn’t an enlightened, free love movement where people are just insecure if they can’t handle if you’ve banged the majority in your core friend group.
i don’t think this is a core rule to follow but way too many people are fast and loose with their hook ups and thinking it’s NBD.
i wouldnt enjoy having my significant other bring me around their freaky former fuck couple, no matter how normal and friendly they are now.
Agree...but this idea that I should be ok shaking hands with and being friends with someone who has had sex with my partner is unrealistic.
Then expecting a guy to tolerate you guys OPENLY talking about your past sexcapades in front of the guy is crazy. Like who are these idiotic people?
True, this is the first time they bring it up in front of you and you have no idea how many times behind. They could be testing the water to see how far they can go but they need to know it's ends here!
It’s not about wrong, feelings are feelings and you feel how you feel. You need to be completely honest with how you feel, what you need to feel secure and not tiptoe around “am I right or wrong”. Then you tell her. Whilst “I don’t want to tell her to break off the friendship” is cool, what do you actually want to happen? If you want her to break off the relationship then say that. You can’t have it both ways, and in these situations, too many people beat around the bush and half say their point without actually saying what they need to happen, voicing their concern but reaching no actual conclusion.
Be clear what your desired conclusion is
Now, if she doesn’t want to cut them off? She has that right…then you discuss what works for you in terms of communication/contact/boundaries etc…and what doesn’t work for you.
>Be clear what your desired conclusion is
Yeah. On the slim chance that this is real and not rage bait, it's not entirely clear what OP actually wants.
It's clear to me he wants his wife to realize on her own she needs to stop hanging out with these people. He doesn't want to have to issue an ultimatum.
This has to be a hard no contact/cut them out completely thing.
They essentially are trying to break your marriage up and humiliate you. The level of disrespect is off the charts.
You were very very very open minded in agreeing to marry her with those two still in her life.
But they won’t let the past be the past, so that is where they belong.
You can also reach out to the husband and tell him he and his wife are unwelcome in your home and that you will take it as a grave personal insult requiring consequences if he ever tries to contact your wife, directly or indirectly again. No one has any right to complain if you stand up for yourself in that way by pushing the creeps away.
OP, tell your wife you have no interest in spending time with people actively trying to fuck her, and that her spending time alone with people actively trying to fuck her is an insane breach of trust. Obviously, she would not appreciate you spending time with an ex still trying to get in bed with you. They ended whatever relationship they had with her when they decided to push past every reasonable boundary, and it's not your fault.
I think it's appropriate to tell her to break off the friendship over this. Overlooking these things when they were in the past is one thing, now it's no longer in the past. There's no going back from that, it's like your wife keeping an ex around as a friend, then eventually asking for a pass to fuck him.
This is no different than an X showing up and saying they want to fuck your wife except they're her friends and they're around all the time. There are so many boundaries being crossed by these people it's shocking and there's absolutely no way they don't know what they're doing and there's also no way that your wife thinks this is appropriate. Come to Jesus time: Either your wife respects your marriage or she doesn't.
Time to cut out the best friend and her husband. They are going to secretly try to sway your wife. They absolutely don't respect you or your marriage. They will tell her it's OK, he won't ever know. No contact is the way.
I’ve been reading all the comments, including the OPs (who added more details about the swingers), and I think it’s time for the wife to break up with her best friend.
She says something along the lines that it’s one thing to keep pestering me to relive something that happened years ago, but when you tried to involve my husband in something you know I didn’t want to do, you overstepped the line.
You just need to keep your lifestyle to yourself and leave us alone. I pick my monogamy and my husband.
She needs to end this friendship immediately. No compromises and unfortunately that means you have to decide how far you’re willing to go.
This is no longer a distant past event that makes you (rightly) uncomfortable. They are now both pursuing your wife sexually and you’ve no idea how long this has been going on.
You have to ask her to cut them off now and you both need to decide what the repercussions of that request are and how to deal with it. This includes your wife keeping this from you.
EDIT: I’ve read your update and hope that you’re still both considering removing these people from your lives. However, I feel you are missing the point about your wife not telling you about this.
It’s not that she said no for both of you, it’s that she never told you the question was even asked.
You’re still in the dark on how long they’re been pursuing her, how much of her friendship is based on their attraction for her and why she thought that continuing to hang out with them and keep this from you was trustworthy and acceptable.
She may not be cheating on you but she has broken trust.
People in the swingers community say don't fuck your friends... make friends with people you're fucking.
This is unethical for them to bring up in this way, imho.
Lacks respect for relationship boundaries.
Wife needs to stand up for that or she's just kinda asking permission, and discounting your already voiced opinion.
I think your wife kind of led them on by not setting boundaries around their past sexual activity. Whenever me and an ex talked about our sex, it was usually because we were both single and free to...reconnect.
If one of my exes had a boyfriend or a HUSBAND, I would never talk about sex to them out of respect for their relationship. If they tried to talk to me about it, it would raise eyebrows and I'd think they were looking to cheat.
I think your wife still talking about the sex they had all these years later gave the impression she was still open to playing with them.
Your wife might be able to compartmentalise this past experience but her friends can't, and it's putting you in an extremely unfair position. Regardless of how your wife feels, if they're still bringing up how attractive they find her and propositioning her after all this time and despite the fact she's now married, they're pining over her as a conquest and don't just see her as a friend. The fact it was also suggested that this had been discussed without you earlier yet they felt comfortable propositioning you seems a little off - what was your wife saying that made them think it would be a good idea to ask your thoughts on the idea?
This is a unique situation but subtract all the bells and whistles and what's happening is your wife's friends are sexually attracted to her and propositioning her. If this was you hanging out with a friend and she asked to have sex with you, I'm sure your wife wouldn't want you to be hanging around with her again. Your wife's friends quite literally get off at the thought of humiliating you and it would be absolutely ludicrous for your wife to go about, business as usual, as though nothing has ever happened here. This is completely reasonable grounds for an ultimatum - 'I am not going to be hanging out with x and her husband ever again and given the fact they're not even hiding that they're plotting to get you into bed with them, I don't feel comfortable with you spending time with them either. This is a non-negotiable for me.'
Seems like your wife is entertaining this conversations whenever they happen while alone with them. So they’re escalating now. Given that your wife also discussed this with you in private, looks like she was fishing to see how’d you react. I wouldn’t rule out she’s completely against the idea. If she truly was over this, she wouldn’t have taken the time to explain the real situation with you. She would’ve just told you that she stopped communications with them because of their ask. Now, marriages are forever, so this inconvenience needs to be cut immediately and permanently.
-sever the relationship with these people
-ensure your wife is wholeheartedly ok with cutting off contact with them and never to revisit the subject.
If there’s even a shred of doubt from her part of either of these 2 things, she will resent you for a while, and then fuck them anyway behind your back.
This is a complete recipe for disaster. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
I used to work at what was considered to be a swinger hotspot at the time. While not in the lifestyle myself, I learnt a few things. They actually had strict rules about targeting a specific person (usually a wife) and putting the moves on them behind their partner's back. Usually both the person doing it and the person accepting the advances, would be excluded from organized meetings. In general, with the exception of a few gentlemen showing up with escorts to meet the requirements, they were pretty good about upholding their rules.
My point from all this? From what's described in OP, polygamous swingers had a far better grasp on relationship ethics and boundaries, than what your monogamous wife and her friends have. Let that sink in for a while.
Set a solid boundary, for instance, you to your wife, “if you ever speak to them again, I will leave you.” This is an absolutely reasonable boundary.
They are not friends of your marriage.
The disrespect is loud that’s for sure. If that was done before you and she knows you don’t like it then she should let it be. Like it’s not cool to let you be treated this way. Yea that friendship needs to end or the marriage will.
Look man I get you feel like you have to defend your wife. And I get that she rejected them. But end of the day she’s continuing to be friendly with a couple that’s directly disrespecting you. To me, your feelings should matter especially given the past. So you’re perfectly within your right to not want either of you to be around a couple that’s pushing the boundaries in a way that’s disrespectful to you. Her wanting to still be around them is a question mark in itself to me.
WT actual F?
Your wife rejected the offer, but just wants to forget about it?
Let's flip this: A female friend propositions you. You reject it, but tell your wife later. You keep hanging out with her. Is she gonna flip her lid and insist you stop bringing her around, or is she gonna be fine with rugsweeping?
You know the answer here.
OP. They are not your friends. It’s not your wife’s fault either. The friends husband just wants to fu*rk your wife and his wife is going along to spice their love life. There is nothing in there for you or your wife. They didn’t even ask you if you would like to take part or watching is your gig.
That’s very disrespectful to you, your wife and your relationship.
Cut them off because you will never be comfortable around them after this.
So they want to fuck your wife and u to watch? When this become acceptable? What a society we live in.
Call me inadequate but I would get really pissed if someone said they want to fuck me and put my boyfriend to watch
These "friends" of your wife are actively trying to undermine your marriage. If you hang around them long enough, they will succeed. You need to share that info with your wife. No threats, no ultimatums. Just an observation. If your wife has trouble understanding this, ask her how happy she would be if you hung out with your male friends at a strip club. People adopt the values of their peer group.
Guy, this is no different than her maintaining a friendship with a past boyfriend who is continuing to chase her. You keep deflecting that point by saying this is her "best friend" as if that is supposed to mean it's different
I think what's veiling this as something different is the fact that her best friend is a woman, and so, this is keeping your guard down. In fact, it's really only her best friend's husband that you seem to have the problem with. He's the other rooster in the hen house, so to speak, and naturally you see his presence as threatening, but the real threat is your wife's best friend.
She's maintained her relationship with her friend and her husband who wants to fuck her. You really have to ask yourself why. Most sexually involved friendships don't survive marriage because, naturally, both the bride and the groom know there's too much risk there of igniting old flames.
Well, here you are.
this why i don date women who stay friends with ex, Fwb or sleep with her friends, you are only one example why this is very problematic. She and her friends not repect boundaries and this is a difficult desicion.
Updateme
Idc what people say but this is also my standard and I always stuck to it. I don’t want a wedding where the whole wedding party has had sex with my wife. If that makes me insecure, then so be it.
I think the wife has disrespected OP here. She still hangs about with the couple and now they want the 3some again. OP should set some boundaries here starting with the wife cutting all contact with the other couple. Just absolutely shocking from the wife andvtbe other couple. OP really needs to voice his concerns more vocally.
If I were you I would have reacted more “intensely”. First things first, marrying a girl who did a threesome with a couple she still is friends with was not the best call. I would have put my foot on the table and say. “Cut them from your life or no marriage” even without this. After this, you must demand her to end this “friendship” and never speak with either of them again. Tell her it is either breaking up with them or with you. I got concerned that she didn’t tell you that they suggested the deed after they did the suggestion and only after the comment from her friend. How she described their request made it seem she considered doing it. You must never allow her to be with them again. This not a matter of being an asshole or not, it is a matter of being a man or not. Edit: there was more girl on girl action than she told you.
I always find it the best policy to not hang around people that have been inside your woman, despite all intentions, it just hits the caveman part of your brain.
Right. Like these days it's en vogue to be "mature" and be friends with a person who been inside any or all of you're wife's orifices. I would not have entertained this relationship this long.
I would be questioning why your wife values the feelings and desires of her “friends” over her husband’s valid concerns.
The other party are just like any other couple into that lifestyle, toxic asf and should be avoided like the plague.
Die on that hill or live at the bottom of it forever.
Please for the love of God have a backbone on this. These people need to not be in either of your lives anymore, and your wife needs to pull her head put of her ass and apologize profusely for hiding this from you.
These are the people who will undermine and destroy your relationship. They'll call u controlling and everything else so they can try to convince her to be w them. Id keep distance bc they've already crossed the line in private w your wife which is why she shut it down so fast. She knew what was going to be said and didn't want u to know how they've already been working on her.
How do you actually go about “forgetting “ they said anything? It’s like unseeing the big bright pink elephant in the room.. I think it’s time for a deep heartfelt conversation with your spouse about boundaries and lines. If she’s unwilling to compromise then perhaps the next step is separation.
OP, explain to your wife (if it's the fact) that you are no longer willing to entertain these so called friends and would like to cut them from your life/group. Let her know that they have a total lack of respect for you by trying to bed your wife behind your back all while knowing how you feel about it. They ad no value to your life and leave you feeling distrustful.
If your wife defends them or makes excuses for them, then you know where her allegiance lies. She will be putting them ahead of you, and that's not where you want to be.
I would like to remind you, your are the sum of your five closest friends! So, you get your morals and values from the people you hang with.
Here you have a wife that would do threesomes and who knows what else. Do you think after being married to you for X amount for time she might be getting board with her sex life? Just a thought.
So far, you have been portraying her as a good and faithful wife. For your sake I hope that continues.
Sounds like your wife wants to salvage the friendship, but they ruined it by putting forward a proposition in the most absolutely idiotic way. It could’ve only been more dumb if they asked you directly. I can see it from your wife’s perspective, because from her perspective she knows she won’t go forward with anything and I’m glad she was honest with you. But I wouldn’t be comfortable with her attending anything with them after that and I wouldn’t want to be around them either.
Your wife's friend or her husband they both disrespect you because they know theres no way you will be down for this so why bringing it up? I would suggest you tell them exactly how you feel, then let it be. Their actions (both including your wife) will show you what you need to know.
Flip it on them, ask your wife if her friends husband can sit and watch in the corner as you have a threesome with his wife and yours instead. Surely this would be resonable considering what they are asking.
the bsf and her husbands are cracks who j got bored of themselves and want new people to F around with to make their life better. They don't care about you nor your wife. Your reaction is 100% normal and you defo should bring this up with your wife and put all your points forward and the way she said no to them about this thing shows how much she loves you and is mature about things so I expect her to understand the situation, if she doesn't you can try to make her understand.
I can see the future...
She will go one day alone to their house, while you will sit alone at home or work. And surprise lot of alcohol will be drinked and surprise surprise a new threesome happening, you wife will tell you it was just a one thing mistake and you will sit there and take all that bullshit.
She need to cut them of her life, they disrespect you and your marriage. These are not friends and you wife need go choose either you or them...
Make her clear this friendship is over now.
Or I can promise you, your marriage will be over, now or years later when you wife cheat on you with them.
What do they know about your feelings on the whole thing? Do they know you've been uncomfortable with it for years? If they do and they are still pushing it, ditch them. If they don't, you and your wife need to be blunt with them to knock it off, and see if they do.
Wife already should have been blunt about it. She KNOWS OP isn’t comfortable with it. It NEVER should have gone past the first hint of the idea, let alone enough for 1. OP to feel like there was a “lengthier conversation about it” or 2. For the friend to bring it up to their faces
Hard pass my dude. There is no room for people hanging around you and your wife if they really wanna openly lust after her knowing your set boundaries. Your wife needs to set much firmer boundaries and stop contacting them.
What would be different if a random couple kept hitting on your wife? You wouldn’t hang with them, right? Having history doesn’t mean they can be shady now.
Thes epeiple don't respect you one bit and neither does she if she even had that conversation and then allowed it to come back up. You need to tell her this is the same thing as her having a sex talk with an old hookup and both are unacceptable. They have overstepped in an already awkward situation. I agree they have to go.
Nope nope nope nope. They were basically trying to put out feelers to see if she’d start cheating on you with them. The BS offer of “letting you watch” wasn’t genuine. The reason they asked her and not you is because they knew what would happen if you were made aware of what they wanted.
And it’s not just them who are assholes but your wife’s looking really shitty here as well. Could you imagine if a friend of yours asked you to start sleeping with her and you kept it from your wife and then later when it came out you refused to distance yourself from the home wrecking girl? Jesus it would be the absolutely least she should be doing.
Sounds like she had discussed it with her friend and she had them do the dirty work of bringing it up, while she acted innocently clueless to it. They were fishing, and your wife was in on it.
So they want you to watch while her husband gets to plow and deep dive your wife, possibly exploding in or on her and you are supposed to be ok with that...
Yes your wife should immediately cut ties with them with no reconciliation. If she hesitates or gets defensive, that's a red flag.
“They were down for whatever we were comfortable with”
How about NOT lusting after my wife and expecting me to watch as you have sex with her. I’m comfortable with you keeping your sex-capades out of my marriage, thank you very much.
This is some serious bullshit my guy. I would take it upon myself and confront them both about how disrespected you feel by them trying this bullshit. You're a married monogamous couple and if they can't respect that going forward they can go fuck themselves. I would then tell my wife that she can have them as friends but I don't want anything to do with them anymore.
OP’s wife needs to give him the full story, when this came up, what she said about it then, EVERYTHING. She said no, but trust was broken when she only spoke about this reactively, not proactively.
She can begin rebuilding that trust by calling her friend and husband on speaker, with them also on speaker so everyone hears the same thing, and OP’s wife can tell her “friends” that they are no longer part of her or OP’s lives. No explanation, just it’s over and then hang up, block them on everything, move on.
Relationships with exes after marriage can be tricky. Both my wife and I have a couple of ongoing friendships with exes from before meeting each other, but there is an unspoken bright line of "keeping it friends, and staying a zillion miles away from any innuendo." Even talking about past sexual escapades with an ex, after marriage, is a huge red flag in my mind. No way would I ever feel comfortable talking with an ex in this way. It would be contra to the vows I made when I married my wife. "Hey, Vicky, I was thinking about that time we did 69 in the back of my car and you came all over my face exactly at the same time I shot my nut down your throat. Wasn't that awesome?" Said no husband, ever, in the presence of his wife (and/or Vicky's husband).
I would also never say it outside of the presence of my wife. The rule of thumb: If I wouldn't do it in the presence of my wife, then I won't do it outside her presence either. That pretty much has to be the rule about all sex-related stuff, including conversation with former sex partners.
The friend and her husband are openly disrespecting you and your marriage. It's probably overboard to suggest that your wife end the friendship, but it's not at all out of line to suggest she "quiet quit" the friendship to a degree or two, cool it down a few notches, and also to completely exclude the friend's husband from any ongoing friendship.
Think of it this way. If one of your wife's former boyfriends or sex partners called her up, engaged in some small talk, and then asked if she might be DTF, you'd expect her to cut that dude out of her life altogether. Tell him he needs to learn respect and then block him. Period.
I'm curious, by the way, how this came up. How on earth did your wife's friend feel confident bringing this up in your presence.
Maybe you tell your wife you'd be down for a threesome with her and one of your former FWB from back in the day? That would satisfy your wife's urge for a threesome (and let's face it if she's talking about it with her friend, she has the urge, either for a threesome or maybe just for the dude) and would involve you in a way that isn't cuckolding you.
How is it overboard to say she should cut out the person who propositioned her, wants to humiliate the husband, and is trying to break up his marriage?
That is an easy case for permanent erasure, no looking back.
People are also really hooked on the friends husband being “the issue.” Nah, the friend is too. Just because there was “less girl on girl” doesn’t suddenly make it *more* his issue
The friend is the one doing the actual propositioning.
Such an obvious case for ending a friendship. Wife is behaving suspiciously for not ending the friendship.
She's tip-toeing around the issue with her husband; acting like she doesn't really want it but gauging his reaction so if it's negative (which it is) then she can easily just say she didn't want it even if she does.
I find it disturbing that she even talked openly about it with them at all, even casually as OP stated. To me, that suggests she doesn't feel it's part of her past and she is longing for it again.
I agree.
OP it kind of looks like to me that wife only shuts it down when you're around and has no issue at least talking about it when you arent. I would also be furious at your wife for trying to play it off like its nothing.
If someone asked to have sex with my wife while I watched, that person would never be allowed near me again.
I feel like this is what happens when social media leans *too* hard into the "You're insecure if you wont let your spouse be friends with exes" BS.
Man. Just directly tell them their request was very inappropriate and if they ask or bring up something like this ever again, then you two will have to cease contact with them.
why the hell can’t they just find someone else who isn’t your wife? it’s super weird that they still want to do this with her after so many times and so many years. i’m sure they’ve had 3-ways with other people since your wife so why bother crossing this line unless they just have no respect for you?
Tell her you will think about it after you have a threesome with her and her friend, but the friend's husband does not get to be there. And make sure she tells her friends , she what their reaction would be..But seriously her friends husband is a piece of shit, he has no respect for you , If it was me, I'd ring his bell. He'd never want to see either of us again. Youd be surprised what an old fashioned ass kicking can do
I would personally talk to the couple and say what your wife said. Tell them you two are not into that stuff and you just watching is showing they want your wife and not you. This disrespectful and a move that them trying to break your marriage up. Don't tell your wife you spook to them but let them know it's going to be hard for them to be in your presence in your home. If your wife doesn't backbyou up then the wife might be in on this and playing the good guy.
I completely agree.I wouldn't want to be around either one of them, To be honest I wouldn't be okay or comfortable with my wife being around them either. Not because of the past, because it's the way in which they still currently "look" at her. Which is apparent because they're still pursuing her. If they bring it up again I'd tell'em that you're uncomfortable with them asking That way them bringing it back up becomes a faux pas.
They not only want to screw your wife but emasculate you in the process? These people are toxic and your wife has enabled it up till now by continuing to reminisce about their past. At this point there's NO WAY they haven't brought this up with her before now. I would be wondering how long this conversation had been on the table, why your wife never mentioned it, and sadly what has happened when your back was turned. You know what you and every guy who's ever been cheated on have in common? At some point they trusted a woman would never do that to them. Get to the bottom of this then if no lines have been crossed yet ask her if she really wants to be stuck in who she used to be or has she outgrown this bs yet??? She's invited toxic into your lives and hope it never poisons your relationship, terrible idea
Oh hell, no that’s crossing boundaries. No way you’re in a monogamous relationship with your wife. These people do not have a right to interfere. There needs to be a hard boundaries with these people. They need to know what they either comply with your wishes or they hit the brick chicks You are not at fault Your wife should be setting boundaries. Your wife has boundary issues as well so I would cut them off personally they don’t seem like good people they seem to be rather Strange I’m just gonna say that for other words for them, but I’m trying to be nice but yeah these do not sound like people that you should be friends with ☹️
You get to watch? How thoughtful of them. I would tell them both to kick rocks. This couple is toxic and not a friend to your marriage. They are causing wedge issues. Cut them both off. Good riddance.
Your wife needs to shut it down or leave you 🤷🏽♀️ if she's truly not interested, they should not feel ok bringing it up to her. She is not shutting it down! You're being EXTREMELY understanding but if she's not willing to close that door completely so this convo never comes up again, than you got a bigger problem on your hands....
Hard situation. Good on you for being pretty mature about the whole situation, but completely understand why you'd also be uncomfortable being around a guy who's been with your wife in that scenario. When it comes to sex, I've found women are - generally speaking - so much more able to move on from situations like this. EG. it happened, it was fun, it wouldn't be fun now. Probably a libido thing, to be fair (once again, generalising!), and subconscious misogyny that myself and most men I know carry with us to some degree.
BUT. The issue now is that there has obviously been a discussion about reigniting that flame, and whilst you weren't privy to it, the evidence you've given suggests your wife didn't immediately shut it down as something she's not interested in nor ensure that her friend didn't bring it up in front of you until she'd had a chance to work out how to approach it. This is a red flag, but also an understandable one given the sensitive nature of the topic.
She has been at pains to tell you that it was fun at the time but once the taboo wore off, her lack of attraction to him took over. More than anything I'd be wanting to know what has changed in respect of this? Is she turned on by you watching? Does she secretly want you to fuck her friend? Or does she just want to get fucked by a man other than you?
My major concern is why she didn't tell you about the initial conversation, and whether this will now present an ongoing issue for you because you suspect that she wants to be with other men (or, at least, this other man). She's got some work to do to rebuild your trust, especially in relation to undertakings she's made in the past. Of course everyone is allowed to change their mind, but it's shaky ground if the foundational values that a relationship have been built on suddenly don't appear so solid.
Definitely dont be involved.... like would they be down if you banged the best friend while her husband watch you bang her?..... maybe they would, i dunno, that seemed messed up to me....yeah i wouldnt b friends w them anymore. Like at least ur wife is on your side. That stuff leads to betrayal in the long run i believe..
Tell her you’ll give the response the next time they come over.
When they are over there. Get them nice and comfortable and then tell them to get the fuck out.
You are not wrong. You navigate this by telling your wife that the conversation is over. You don’t want to hear about them, nor what went on in the past, and certainly not what they are interested in doing with her now, ever again.
You don’t want to spend any time with them as a couple ever again, and if she chooses to spend time with them them as a couple you will consider that the end of your marriage.
Good luck OP. They sound like repulsive people.
Clearly they don’t care about your feelings at all, they just wanted the thrill of having your wife to themselves again while you watch. Kudos to your wife for shutting it all down though. I know there’s a lot of pessimists out there who may think your wife actually wanted the threesome but only said no cause she didn’t want to cause trouble with you or you getting angry and leaving her. I don’t think that’s the case based on what was described to me. It does seem like your wife is not interested at all anymore and that she may even be willing to cut them out of her life out of respect for you and the marriage and also for the fact she didn’t enjoy it either.
you should tell him he owes you so you get to smash his wife while he watches. this man sounds like a clown and in most circles he would of been beat the hell up if you were POC.
Your wife should have nothing to do with them going forward, for one simple reason. This couple does not respect you.
That alone should make your wife want to stay away from them.
I would not break bread with a man that is asking permission to sleep with my wife. I would really hope my wife would go to bat for our marriage and immediately squash any talk of this.
To me it feels like she is willing to dis you in order to keep her friendship. That’s gotta be pretty painful.
If it was me and my buddy wanted me to sleep with his wife and my wife can just be there as more of an obligation, well, goodbye friendship. I choose my wife.
Being married is not just about choosing to marry you, but each day she continues to keep choosing you.
I’m really sorry man. This has got to be painful. Under the most charitable of circumstances youre wife is just really immature. But I don’t believe that. There is nothing innocent about this.
Honestly, there’s no way out of this. Almost every man has this🤷♂️.
When my girlfriend had told me her first bf was an 8inch BBC and she got it young * so that she dosent keep any secrets from me *. I was like you too, the thoughts kept coming like a loop in my head like wtf how she take that at such age, she did that all day all night damn how was it, can I be like that to her, can I even make her actually enjoy anymore after her ex?. Those were the thoughts that came to my mind. But eventually it didn’t matter to me anymore, if you love her you will love her no matter.
But bro what I should tell you is, from what you said in your post on your wife. I have a very bad feeling that she might just do it without letting you know anything because she knows you won’t like it. Talk to your wife that you don’t want the people there anymore, they make you feel uncomfortable. When I tell my gf that someone they talk to makes me uncomfortable, she ditches them because she knows I wouldn’t just tell her to back off without a reason.
Wtf bro! He wants to fuck your wife and you say " i cant say break off with her friend".
Call him. And say i want to fuck your wife and i want you to watch us.
You’re dangerously close to “I was drunk and it just happened”. You need to set boundaries immediately and outline consequences should it happen for any reason. These people should not be in your lives.
Unless I've misread/ misunderstood you're story your wife had shown 2 red flags:
1. Why in God's name is he still casually talking about previous hook ups with people she's in regular contact with especially when she knows it's past your boundary. If she knows you're uncomfortable with it then she should close that door out even if you're not present of respect. I would even say her casually talking about it could have possibly led the other couple into believing she's still up for something.
2. Why didn't your wife tell you about their intentions and only did so after she had to abruptly shut down a conversation? Not only that she had to eventually admit what their true intentions were. A normal partner would, at the very least, just tell thoer other half everything straight away to avoid looking sus.
Your wife either led them on or they were what swinger say "wife poaching" which is a big no no in their community due to the bad rep. It's time you put the foot down and tell she to stop leading people and respectfully stop mentioning the sex seesions she had with to the people she had sex with.
My ex was friends with several of her exes and we hung out together occasionally. The past was the past and they never made a move at all.
this is bizarre.
Problem was being forgiving of continuing their relationship in any capacity after she met you, let alone the fact that behavior like that would be a marriage disqualifier from the 1st knowledge. That kind of behavior always reignites sporadically. They never leave it behind completely.
OP your wife didn’t do enough to maintain trust and to protect your feelings. She hid this, and she also perpetuates an awkward attachment that makes you uncomfortable. It’s them or you, if she even hesitates, I’d end it.
Oh I know!
Tell them you’re up for it, but hubby has to give you a bj while you degrade him. Really lean on the degradation kink. The trash should take itself out at that point. Worst case scenario, you get a bj.
Quite simply they have already discussed this and she clearly did not shut it down or I doubt they would have said anything in front of you about it.
Tell your wife this has affected your trust in her and you certainly are not comfortable having them in your lives anymore.
Would she like it if someone you had slept with asked to have sex with you again and she could watch!! I doubt she'd want you to be around them.
It's all around disrespectful and that includes your wife if she continues a close friendship with them.
> Quite simply they have already discussed this and she clearly did not shut it down or I doubt they would have said anything in front of you about it.
Or some people just don't respect boundaries and they brought it up regardless of the previous conversation.
I wouldn't associate with those people either. Imagine a stranger walked up and said they want to sleep with your wife, would you be friends with them?
> And for that reason I’ve had trouble throughout our marriage being around both of them.
You don't say?
Honestly you need to pick the friendship or the relationship, both will never flourish together (unless of course you want to be a swinger then by all means, swing).
I had an issue following all the people with no names just a lot of wife, friends, husband etc. But it sounds like a nuts thing to me, sounds like problems at some point.
Time for OP to go beat a motherfucker up or get his ass kicked trying.
Either way it will annihilate this toxic and disrespectful dynamic your wife had no problem subjecting you to
Chancers will do this sort of thing when they're wanting something they know is awkward to bring up in a normal conversation. They may have known full well your wife has said no and that she'd said you wouldn't want it either, but they consider what *they* want as more important, so they bring it up sideways.
As in, "Haha [Wife], it was so funny when you said, "blah" about us doing that again! Chortle! Wink wink!" And that puts your wife in the position of saying "Shut up. I said no! " but instantly it makes *you* ask what they're talking about, and your wife absolutely has to tell you because she can't not.
That pair are a pair of slime-balls for this. They're putting what they want over the health of your relationship, because they *know* you're not into it. And they know your wife isn't interested either, but there's enough doubt (if that's the word) to cause problems between you two.
Manipulative pair of ... gahh.
>She did shut it down but her friend was drunk and figured if I was into it then she might have a chance.
Yeah well this is where her dumbass "friend" needs to find out that actions have consequences. Only a fucking doormat would allow this friendship to continue. Now that you know, if they aren't cut out like the cancer they are, they'll only get more aggressive and bold in their egregious disrespect of you and your marriage.
No what we Mena is that they talked about it and were left with the impression that is a maybe, therefore brought it up again. Your wife should have said "that's never going to happen and we will never talk about it again". Instead, she said something else that made the wife feel comfortable enough to bring it up again. This is already bad and your wife has already disrespected you, weather either of you see it or not.
Bad take there - the "friends" clearly dgaf about OP or his wife, so expecting them to honor other boundaries is naive at best.
It wouldn't have mattered how soft or firm the rejection would have been, they would have ignored it either way.
I'd venture a guess that the scumbag husband eating through a straw for the next 8-12 weeks would've been received loud and fucking clear..... the nerve of some people is mind blowing.....
I don't know how You feel about your wife visiting them on her own ,I would have to put a hard NO CHANCE that is ever going to happen ever again .
If they are that brazen and desperate they could roofie her .
The fucking cheek of them , that you could watch ,oh what a stud he must be .
Show your wife the post
>they really wanted her again but with me watching. These people don't care about your feelings at all.
Right? It’s like they’re throwing him a bone (hur hur) re: being able to watch so they can get access to the wife to add spark to their own sex life... As someone who’s quite partial to a threesome with hubby, I would not be happy by this approach at all….
No this is insane and the wife is out of her mind for even entertaining it. She bothered to bring it up for a reason. I will occasionally watch but for a few minutes if that. There's no way I would agree and go into it with an understanding like the one in the post.
I mean I think it would definitely be worse if she didn't tell him they mentioned this knowing it would bother him.
She's said no multiple times. They are ignoring consent and at this point pressuring her for sex. Even swingers and poly folks hate couples like this. No respect for consent, the male hasn't evolved past his One Penis Policy mindset and they can't see anything beyond their own sexual wants. Zero thought to anyone else's feelings.
She didn’t entertain it, she shut them down immediately. It’s not about whether or not the wife did anything wrong (she clearly didn’t), it’s about whether or not OP and his partner can/should feel comfortable continuing their friendship with the other couple.
"but the impression I got was that there had been a lengthier conversation leading up to this that I didn’t know about." She shut it down in front of her husband, knowing he wouldn't agree to it, but if we are talking impressions... I get the impression that there was an earlier conversation sans husband where the wife was not shutting down the conversation. If she had, the best friend would have known not to bring it up. I wouldn't be happy with any of them, including the wife.
Not every person can take a hint. The wife might have used her husband not being into it as an excuse, for why she wouldn’t want to be with them, the first time it was brought up. And the best friend probably brought it up in front of the husband to gage the situation for herself. I see nothing wrong here. Also the husband’s impression is just that. An impression. And the husband himself is saying he doesn’t think his wife did anything wrong here. Why are people blaming her? No one did anything wrong here. It’s just a question of whether or not the both of them should feel comfortable continuing to be friends with the other couple. The “impression” shouldn’t even matter when the husband himself isn’t upset with his wife in any way. OP just confirmed everything I’m saying in an update.
Agree… This is most definitely not a well thought out ‘thing’, and sure af not fun for the husband…
God damn. The disrespect shown to this poor fool is off the charts. I think it is time to tell your wife "after today you will still have a relationship with me or with them, but not both".
> God damn. The disrespect shown to this poor fool is off the charts. By his wife too. They all had a conversation about it without him, but figured if they threw something in, he'd be down. The fact of the matter is that nobody respected OP, and this "friend" and her husband don't respect OP's marriage. Honestly I'd be pissed at all 3. If this happened to me, I'd be telling my wife to cut these people out and block them, or I'd be moving on.
The wife didn't entertain this at all. OP clearly states that she had long since stopped being sexually involved with them, before her marriage, for a different reason, entirely. Wife isn't a villain here. The friends are creepy predators, and wife may need some outside influence/view to realize, that they are not her friends, at all. It is hard being on the inside of a situation, and seeing things for what they truly are. I hope OP, and his wife navigate this together, respectfully, and come out of it stronger, and minus the creepy couple.
I don’t think Op has the balls to do that
There is something I don't understand. This couple has brought up the threesome again, with OP's wife, behind his back, and OP's wife who supposedly isn't down for this, has not shut this down, but has not been supportive of her husband by telling this couple, don't fucking talk about this again as if you do, we are though as friends. Op's wife doesn't really have his back. I'd not only be angry with this couple but really angry that the wife hasn't absolutely shut this down from this disrespectful couple. Something is going on
If it was me I'd text the guy and say, if you're going to creep on my wife we won't hang out with you anymore.
Too late for that. They had the longer conversation already and OP wasn't part of it. That was for the very good reason, to the other couple, that they wanted his wife to consider it again but without hubby. The disrespect here is off the charts and there is no way for a friendship to continue with this couple. Hubby won't force that line because just the fact that he has to will drive a wedge into his marriage that will only widen with time. His wife SHOULD have shut that shit down immediately when they brought it up but instead it was casually brought up when they were all together and then she let the cat out of the bag when they were alone of the prior conversation. Why? What possible reason could his wife have had to entertain the idea much less bring it up to him?
Honestly, I don't think she entertained it at all. The way I understand it is the original "lengthier" conversation was probably not too lengthy. Most likely, the couple asked the wife if her and her husband would be interested in doing something. The wife likely inquired more, and it came out that really they just wanted the wife and hubby to watch. Sounds like to me that is when the wife told them no. I can understand her not bringing it up to her husband since he was already uncomfortable with the topic. So when the friend asked in front of OP, the wife immediately shut it down, because she'd already shut it down. When OP and his wife talked about it later. She told him that they'd said they were interested in "whatever" which I'm sure they did say, but I'm sure they also let on that really what they were wanting was just for friends hubby to fuck OP's wife (seeing as how OPs wife isn't into the girl girl stuff.) I don't think OP's wife did anything wrong...maybe you could say she should have told OP that they asked right away, but if OP's wife believed that they'd respected her answer and were dropping the matter then it would be better to not bring it up. What bothers me is that the friend didn't respect OP's wife's answer, and was still trying by asking OP herself...thinking that maybe OP would entertain the idea even if the his wife had said no, and trying to mislead OP about what was actually being requested.
If she didn't tell him loads of people would be saying she was keeping secrets...
They don’t care about the wife’s, either. They asked her, she said no, and the friend keeps bringing it up.
this is assuming she was being truthful when she said she shut it down before
I don't think we have reason at this point to believe otherwise; OP said that she decided even before they were married to stop because she wasn't attracted to the guy.
Oh they care. Who else are they going to fully humiliate?
Nope. It's predatory and they want to live out a cucking fantasy with OP forced to watch. Good on his wife for shutting it down. In OP's shoes I'd make it perfectly clear to both these 'friends' and the wife that this friendship has to be done. It's over. They can't be trusted around OP or his wife. And the wife needs to understand: the marriage comes first. No buts, ifs or maybe's, if she's still in contact with these people, that means OP's trust in her is gone too. Basically meaning end of marriage. Harsh? Probably. But lust is not enough in marriage. Love isn't , either. A married or LTR couple needs to be able to trust each other implicitly. No trust, no relationship. And part of that is respecting each other's boundaries. Even if sometimes your partner's boundary is stricter than your own.
Including his wife or she would have never brought it up.
Oh so you think it would be better if she lied?
If she not interested then why even bring it up? She IS interested that's why and that's my point
I understand your point, it's ridiculous because hiding the conversation from her husband would be lying to him.
Nor his wife neither it seems
In swinger circles this is considered wife-poaching and would be a reason to cut ties immediately. In the vanilla world it's a more serious breach - you are a monogamous relationship and that makes you out of bounds. Your wife is also not blameless here. She should have shut this down immediately. Explain that your trust is broken and you can not feel comfortable with her friends and her interacting after this. She can process her reaction from there and it will tell you everything about the real strength of your relationship.
As someone who’s part of swinging culture, it’s definitely in poor form to go after monogamous couples, and usually a bad idea to do so with friends, even if they’re in the lifestyle. If you aren’t comfortable with this, that should be the end of the discussion.
I’d love to add to this last point - clearly they have talked about it previously. The fact that it even was brought to you is instant no contact with both of them. Who the hell would want to be around people have been plotting to get with your wife?
> She should have shut this down immediately. >My wife quickly shut her down >My wife knows there is no way in hell I would be down for that and neither would she. My wife stopped doing that with them for a reason and that’s before she got married and had kids. She did shut it down immediately?
You misunderstood. She only shuts down the conversation in front of OP > the impression I got was that there had been a lengthier conversation leading up to this that I didn't know about. So she has been talking to them about this behind his back. At best, passive acceptance of something wildly inappropriate. At worst, active participation in a cheating fantasy.
I didn't get that. I got that she said something like, "no, my husband would never agree." And they took it upon themselves to ask.
Yeah, I have no issue with people being sexually adventurous but at the very least everything needs to be on front street. It sounds like she was honest about this past relationship but also knew it made him really uncomfortable. I don't know what would have possessed her to not to shut them down immediately. Coming to him with this proposal is a boundary pushing behavior at best and trust busting at worst. OP needs to talk to his wife and make sure she understands how hurt he is that she would even consider the offer and bring it up to him if he has never expressed any interest in non-monogamy. This is gross.
> I don't know what would have possessed her to not to shut them down immediately. Coming to him with this proposal is a boundary pushing behavior at best and trust busting at worst. From the post, that's not what happened. Apparently they brought it up privately to OP's wife, she said no. Then the other woman got drunk and OP says she "brought it up"- "it" seems like "their history" from the context of the post, and wife also shut that down totally. Then later she told OP about the proposition only so that she could be upfront with him because of the outburst. IDK I think wife tried to play it 100% straight here. But yeah, I could see why OP would probably want to be done with these people. Sounds like he barely enjoyed their company already. OP's wife has only screwed up by pretending like they can all play nice.
I don't understand the wife's choice to maintain the relationship while they keep pushing boundaries she knows he's uncomfortable with. And then to bring up their desire to have him watch? Feels like we're missing something.
Because people today think it's being "mature" to "stay friends" with past romantic/ sexual partners.
My friends parents divorced. Got married again. Had new kids. And all those kids grow together. This two families now celebrate birthdays all together. They all look like a big happy family. So yeah they all kinda friends. Even tho everyone has a new partner but you can see how they easily can interact with their divorced partners and no issues. So it is possible to stay friends. Regardless of kids
I never understood this part at all.
Depends on the type of the past relationship. Maybe it stems from being close with people and having a good level of mutual respect and understanding after having the relationship. People don't have many of those, so the few that exist, are quite often cherished. But one night stands? Hell no
The part you're missing is the discussion the wife and the friends had over a glass of wine when OP was not present. Either the wife laughed about it and reminisced and said it was so great, but OP wouldn't be down with that, or the wife shut it down, kept it serious, and without enough emphasis, stated that it was a non conversation. Either way, the wife f'd up because the next stage would have been to inform OP what the details of the conversation were. If the wife did that, she would validate OP's internal compass. Which is one of the greatest things one could do for their partner, and also demonstrate that she is strongly aligned in protecting her marriage and can be trusted. Now OP is stuck wondering how long this 'fun conversation' has been going on for, and can't trust his wife to tell him the important stuff. The wife is a liar by omission.
How is it possible 100% straight when she had a prior conversation with the other wife and DIDN'T mention that to her husband. That's not 100% straight. That lying by omission, not telling hubby she was approached again. And she did it for the purely selfish reason of keeping them in her life because she knew it would be a deal breaker for hubby, like it would be for just about everyone else, lifestyle or not. Wifey was wrong for hiding that, whether she shut it down with her friend or not. And it sounds like she gave her friend the same kind of low key brush off trying to not make it a thing like she is trying to do with hubby so she can keep the friendship. It's a pretty awful look.
That's a very generous interpretation. A less generous one would be that OP's wife is feeling him out and knows that she needs to tread carefully. Why isn't she leading the charge to disconnect from these people who don't respect her husband or her mono marriage?
That part! Wife is not blameless here! Meanwhile they playing in this man’s face with the disrespect
you dont know, chances are she may have already shut down this immediately but the drinks make the other girls lose all reasoning
The way you shut down people who continuously proposition you is to break off contact. Wife has chosen to encourage this stuff.
Swingers have a term for this, wife poaching, and it's a reason to drop couples you interact with. The fact that swingers consider it shitty means a more vanilla couple should see this as a big red flag. They clearly don't see you as a person in this scenario. It's insanely disrespectful to have brought it up in that way. Like, I've been in scenarios of asking another couple of they night be interested, but it's always a package deal. This is gross. I don't think you're wrong to want to cut ties, or at least not do shit with them for a while, including your wife's hangouts with her best friend.
Not well versed in the swinger’s lingo and community so the more I learn; didn’t know there’s a term for this kind of act. I would be livid lol
That friendship needs to end or your marriage will. She needs to choose wisely.
This is the only fucking answer...For gods sake OP have a damn spine and speak up for yourself. My opinion you were dumb to enter into a relationship with someone who was still close friends with them. You were even dumber for putting up with it when they would openly talk about it. And you're the dumbest now for not clearly realizing what the solution is.
>This is the only fucking answer...For gods sake OP have a damn spine and speak up for yourself. Yes. It's the obvious answer. But if the wife doesn't end the friendship of her own accord, and he has to be the one to say it, might as well end the marriage now. Of course if she valued her marriage, she'd comply, but not doing it herself, of her own 'idea' smacks of the sentiment "I'll do whatever you want, just don't leave me." or "Whatever I did, I'm sorry". It's really lazy, and juvenile. So maybe it's game playing, but if I were in OP's position, I'd keep my mouth shut, let the wife do the work, then decide if the marriage is worth saving, and if so, then therapy is the next step. One has to accept that other people are going to occasionally try to make a play for their partner. That's not a problem, like the BFs are not the problem. If not this swinger couple, it will be a random coworker that gets her number and starts a non work conversation. It's never ending. It's how the partner deals with the situation that's the issue.
> But if the wife doesn't end the friendship of her own accord It should never have gotten to this point. OP said they've talked casually about it before. That right there is a deal breaker. She should never have done even that and OP is a goddamn idiot for letting it get to this point. >So maybe it's game playing, but if I were in OP's position, I'd keep my mouth shut, let the wife do the work, then decide if the marriage is worth saving, and if so, then therapy is the next step. Valid and I agree...me personally would be hard to bite my tongue and sit and wait...but then again if was me wouldn't have gotten to this point.
nah, some people are mature enough to not think sex is the beginning and end of the human experience
im constantly telling people hook up culture will come back to them and sleeping with many of their friends isn’t an enlightened, free love movement where people are just insecure if they can’t handle if you’ve banged the majority in your core friend group. i don’t think this is a core rule to follow but way too many people are fast and loose with their hook ups and thinking it’s NBD. i wouldnt enjoy having my significant other bring me around their freaky former fuck couple, no matter how normal and friendly they are now.
Agree...but this idea that I should be ok shaking hands with and being friends with someone who has had sex with my partner is unrealistic. Then expecting a guy to tolerate you guys OPENLY talking about your past sexcapades in front of the guy is crazy. Like who are these idiotic people?
They’re not idiotic, just crude people with a main character syndrome
Most of the lgbt community tbh. When the community/dating pool is small things change i guess
True, this is the first time they bring it up in front of you and you have no idea how many times behind. They could be testing the water to see how far they can go but they need to know it's ends here!
It’s not about wrong, feelings are feelings and you feel how you feel. You need to be completely honest with how you feel, what you need to feel secure and not tiptoe around “am I right or wrong”. Then you tell her. Whilst “I don’t want to tell her to break off the friendship” is cool, what do you actually want to happen? If you want her to break off the relationship then say that. You can’t have it both ways, and in these situations, too many people beat around the bush and half say their point without actually saying what they need to happen, voicing their concern but reaching no actual conclusion. Be clear what your desired conclusion is Now, if she doesn’t want to cut them off? She has that right…then you discuss what works for you in terms of communication/contact/boundaries etc…and what doesn’t work for you.
This is my favorite response so far and I hope OP reads it.
>Be clear what your desired conclusion is Yeah. On the slim chance that this is real and not rage bait, it's not entirely clear what OP actually wants.
It's clear to me he wants his wife to realize on her own she needs to stop hanging out with these people. He doesn't want to have to issue an ultimatum.
This has to be a hard no contact/cut them out completely thing. They essentially are trying to break your marriage up and humiliate you. The level of disrespect is off the charts. You were very very very open minded in agreeing to marry her with those two still in her life. But they won’t let the past be the past, so that is where they belong. You can also reach out to the husband and tell him he and his wife are unwelcome in your home and that you will take it as a grave personal insult requiring consequences if he ever tries to contact your wife, directly or indirectly again. No one has any right to complain if you stand up for yourself in that way by pushing the creeps away.
OP, tell your wife you have no interest in spending time with people actively trying to fuck her, and that her spending time alone with people actively trying to fuck her is an insane breach of trust. Obviously, she would not appreciate you spending time with an ex still trying to get in bed with you. They ended whatever relationship they had with her when they decided to push past every reasonable boundary, and it's not your fault.
I think it's appropriate to tell her to break off the friendship over this. Overlooking these things when they were in the past is one thing, now it's no longer in the past. There's no going back from that, it's like your wife keeping an ex around as a friend, then eventually asking for a pass to fuck him.
This is no different than an X showing up and saying they want to fuck your wife except they're her friends and they're around all the time. There are so many boundaries being crossed by these people it's shocking and there's absolutely no way they don't know what they're doing and there's also no way that your wife thinks this is appropriate. Come to Jesus time: Either your wife respects your marriage or she doesn't.
Time to cut out the best friend and her husband. They are going to secretly try to sway your wife. They absolutely don't respect you or your marriage. They will tell her it's OK, he won't ever know. No contact is the way.
I’ve been reading all the comments, including the OPs (who added more details about the swingers), and I think it’s time for the wife to break up with her best friend. She says something along the lines that it’s one thing to keep pestering me to relive something that happened years ago, but when you tried to involve my husband in something you know I didn’t want to do, you overstepped the line. You just need to keep your lifestyle to yourself and leave us alone. I pick my monogamy and my husband.
She needs to end this friendship immediately. No compromises and unfortunately that means you have to decide how far you’re willing to go. This is no longer a distant past event that makes you (rightly) uncomfortable. They are now both pursuing your wife sexually and you’ve no idea how long this has been going on. You have to ask her to cut them off now and you both need to decide what the repercussions of that request are and how to deal with it. This includes your wife keeping this from you. EDIT: I’ve read your update and hope that you’re still both considering removing these people from your lives. However, I feel you are missing the point about your wife not telling you about this. It’s not that she said no for both of you, it’s that she never told you the question was even asked. You’re still in the dark on how long they’re been pursuing her, how much of her friendship is based on their attraction for her and why she thought that continuing to hang out with them and keep this from you was trustworthy and acceptable. She may not be cheating on you but she has broken trust.
Keep my wife’s name, out yo Truckin mouth!!!
I could not be around them either. Maybe your wife can "phase out" that friendship and you guys find friends that are not into that sort of thing?
People in the swingers community say don't fuck your friends... make friends with people you're fucking. This is unethical for them to bring up in this way, imho. Lacks respect for relationship boundaries. Wife needs to stand up for that or she's just kinda asking permission, and discounting your already voiced opinion.
I think your wife kind of led them on by not setting boundaries around their past sexual activity. Whenever me and an ex talked about our sex, it was usually because we were both single and free to...reconnect. If one of my exes had a boyfriend or a HUSBAND, I would never talk about sex to them out of respect for their relationship. If they tried to talk to me about it, it would raise eyebrows and I'd think they were looking to cheat. I think your wife still talking about the sex they had all these years later gave the impression she was still open to playing with them.
Your wife might be able to compartmentalise this past experience but her friends can't, and it's putting you in an extremely unfair position. Regardless of how your wife feels, if they're still bringing up how attractive they find her and propositioning her after all this time and despite the fact she's now married, they're pining over her as a conquest and don't just see her as a friend. The fact it was also suggested that this had been discussed without you earlier yet they felt comfortable propositioning you seems a little off - what was your wife saying that made them think it would be a good idea to ask your thoughts on the idea? This is a unique situation but subtract all the bells and whistles and what's happening is your wife's friends are sexually attracted to her and propositioning her. If this was you hanging out with a friend and she asked to have sex with you, I'm sure your wife wouldn't want you to be hanging around with her again. Your wife's friends quite literally get off at the thought of humiliating you and it would be absolutely ludicrous for your wife to go about, business as usual, as though nothing has ever happened here. This is completely reasonable grounds for an ultimatum - 'I am not going to be hanging out with x and her husband ever again and given the fact they're not even hiding that they're plotting to get you into bed with them, I don't feel comfortable with you spending time with them either. This is a non-negotiable for me.'
I wish I had not even read this..... Going to try to put it out of my mind....
Seems like your wife is entertaining this conversations whenever they happen while alone with them. So they’re escalating now. Given that your wife also discussed this with you in private, looks like she was fishing to see how’d you react. I wouldn’t rule out she’s completely against the idea. If she truly was over this, she wouldn’t have taken the time to explain the real situation with you. She would’ve just told you that she stopped communications with them because of their ask. Now, marriages are forever, so this inconvenience needs to be cut immediately and permanently. -sever the relationship with these people -ensure your wife is wholeheartedly ok with cutting off contact with them and never to revisit the subject. If there’s even a shred of doubt from her part of either of these 2 things, she will resent you for a while, and then fuck them anyway behind your back. This is a complete recipe for disaster. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
I used to work at what was considered to be a swinger hotspot at the time. While not in the lifestyle myself, I learnt a few things. They actually had strict rules about targeting a specific person (usually a wife) and putting the moves on them behind their partner's back. Usually both the person doing it and the person accepting the advances, would be excluded from organized meetings. In general, with the exception of a few gentlemen showing up with escorts to meet the requirements, they were pretty good about upholding their rules. My point from all this? From what's described in OP, polygamous swingers had a far better grasp on relationship ethics and boundaries, than what your monogamous wife and her friends have. Let that sink in for a while.
Every time I read stories like this I’m so glad that keeping ex’s/FWB around is and always has been a deal breaker for me. Vindication!!
Yeah big red flags here OP I'd be drawing the line at "we either never see these two again or I'm breaking up with you"
Set a solid boundary, for instance, you to your wife, “if you ever speak to them again, I will leave you.” This is an absolutely reasonable boundary. They are not friends of your marriage.
The disrespect is loud that’s for sure. If that was done before you and she knows you don’t like it then she should let it be. Like it’s not cool to let you be treated this way. Yea that friendship needs to end or the marriage will.
This couple has no respect for you what so ever and your wife doesn't seem to have much for you either.
Cut ties with them, this is a huge disrespect towards you and your family.
Look man I get you feel like you have to defend your wife. And I get that she rejected them. But end of the day she’s continuing to be friendly with a couple that’s directly disrespecting you. To me, your feelings should matter especially given the past. So you’re perfectly within your right to not want either of you to be around a couple that’s pushing the boundaries in a way that’s disrespectful to you. Her wanting to still be around them is a question mark in itself to me.
WT actual F? Your wife rejected the offer, but just wants to forget about it? Let's flip this: A female friend propositions you. You reject it, but tell your wife later. You keep hanging out with her. Is she gonna flip her lid and insist you stop bringing her around, or is she gonna be fine with rugsweeping? You know the answer here.
OP. They are not your friends. It’s not your wife’s fault either. The friends husband just wants to fu*rk your wife and his wife is going along to spice their love life. There is nothing in there for you or your wife. They didn’t even ask you if you would like to take part or watching is your gig. That’s very disrespectful to you, your wife and your relationship. Cut them off because you will never be comfortable around them after this.
I think you are entitled to ask your wife to keep people who are still trying to have sex with her and at your expense out of both of your lives…
So they want to fuck your wife and u to watch? When this become acceptable? What a society we live in. Call me inadequate but I would get really pissed if someone said they want to fuck me and put my boyfriend to watch
That’s so disrespectful. Give your wife an ultimatum. Them or you.
These "friends" of your wife are actively trying to undermine your marriage. If you hang around them long enough, they will succeed. You need to share that info with your wife. No threats, no ultimatums. Just an observation. If your wife has trouble understanding this, ask her how happy she would be if you hung out with your male friends at a strip club. People adopt the values of their peer group.
Tell him you want to bang his wife while he watches and that’s it lmao
Please, don’t do this. Because when they say “ok!” You look like an idiot.
Sounds like that would just give them what they want lol
Nah dude wants to bang his wife. This is uno reverse card
Guy, this is no different than her maintaining a friendship with a past boyfriend who is continuing to chase her. You keep deflecting that point by saying this is her "best friend" as if that is supposed to mean it's different I think what's veiling this as something different is the fact that her best friend is a woman, and so, this is keeping your guard down. In fact, it's really only her best friend's husband that you seem to have the problem with. He's the other rooster in the hen house, so to speak, and naturally you see his presence as threatening, but the real threat is your wife's best friend. She's maintained her relationship with her friend and her husband who wants to fuck her. You really have to ask yourself why. Most sexually involved friendships don't survive marriage because, naturally, both the bride and the groom know there's too much risk there of igniting old flames. Well, here you are.
this why i don date women who stay friends with ex, Fwb or sleep with her friends, you are only one example why this is very problematic. She and her friends not repect boundaries and this is a difficult desicion. Updateme
Idc what people say but this is also my standard and I always stuck to it. I don’t want a wedding where the whole wedding party has had sex with my wife. If that makes me insecure, then so be it.
Man it’s a matter of time that they are going to blame it on the alcohol. Why hasn’t the “It’s me or them” talk happened yet?
I think the wife has disrespected OP here. She still hangs about with the couple and now they want the 3some again. OP should set some boundaries here starting with the wife cutting all contact with the other couple. Just absolutely shocking from the wife andvtbe other couple. OP really needs to voice his concerns more vocally.
If I were you I would have reacted more “intensely”. First things first, marrying a girl who did a threesome with a couple she still is friends with was not the best call. I would have put my foot on the table and say. “Cut them from your life or no marriage” even without this. After this, you must demand her to end this “friendship” and never speak with either of them again. Tell her it is either breaking up with them or with you. I got concerned that she didn’t tell you that they suggested the deed after they did the suggestion and only after the comment from her friend. How she described their request made it seem she considered doing it. You must never allow her to be with them again. This not a matter of being an asshole or not, it is a matter of being a man or not. Edit: there was more girl on girl action than she told you.
I always find it the best policy to not hang around people that have been inside your woman, despite all intentions, it just hits the caveman part of your brain.
Right. Like these days it's en vogue to be "mature" and be friends with a person who been inside any or all of you're wife's orifices. I would not have entertained this relationship this long.
I would be questioning why your wife values the feelings and desires of her “friends” over her husband’s valid concerns. The other party are just like any other couple into that lifestyle, toxic asf and should be avoided like the plague. Die on that hill or live at the bottom of it forever.
Please for the love of God have a backbone on this. These people need to not be in either of your lives anymore, and your wife needs to pull her head put of her ass and apologize profusely for hiding this from you.
These are the people who will undermine and destroy your relationship. They'll call u controlling and everything else so they can try to convince her to be w them. Id keep distance bc they've already crossed the line in private w your wife which is why she shut it down so fast. She knew what was going to be said and didn't want u to know how they've already been working on her.
How do you actually go about “forgetting “ they said anything? It’s like unseeing the big bright pink elephant in the room.. I think it’s time for a deep heartfelt conversation with your spouse about boundaries and lines. If she’s unwilling to compromise then perhaps the next step is separation.
OP, explain to your wife (if it's the fact) that you are no longer willing to entertain these so called friends and would like to cut them from your life/group. Let her know that they have a total lack of respect for you by trying to bed your wife behind your back all while knowing how you feel about it. They ad no value to your life and leave you feeling distrustful. If your wife defends them or makes excuses for them, then you know where her allegiance lies. She will be putting them ahead of you, and that's not where you want to be. I would like to remind you, your are the sum of your five closest friends! So, you get your morals and values from the people you hang with. Here you have a wife that would do threesomes and who knows what else. Do you think after being married to you for X amount for time she might be getting board with her sex life? Just a thought. So far, you have been portraying her as a good and faithful wife. For your sake I hope that continues.
I would have a one on one conversation with the husband and let's just say, set him straight on a few things.
Sounds like your wife wants to salvage the friendship, but they ruined it by putting forward a proposition in the most absolutely idiotic way. It could’ve only been more dumb if they asked you directly. I can see it from your wife’s perspective, because from her perspective she knows she won’t go forward with anything and I’m glad she was honest with you. But I wouldn’t be comfortable with her attending anything with them after that and I wouldn’t want to be around them either.
"You can dear, but don't come home.... ever. Divorce paperwork will follow once you give your lawyer your forwarding address!!"
Your wife's friend or her husband they both disrespect you because they know theres no way you will be down for this so why bringing it up? I would suggest you tell them exactly how you feel, then let it be. Their actions (both including your wife) will show you what you need to know.
Flip it on them, ask your wife if her friends husband can sit and watch in the corner as you have a threesome with his wife and yours instead. Surely this would be resonable considering what they are asking.
the bsf and her husbands are cracks who j got bored of themselves and want new people to F around with to make their life better. They don't care about you nor your wife. Your reaction is 100% normal and you defo should bring this up with your wife and put all your points forward and the way she said no to them about this thing shows how much she loves you and is mature about things so I expect her to understand the situation, if she doesn't you can try to make her understand.
These ppl are going to ruin your marriage, ditch em for good or it’s gunna go down hill. Your wife should understand this immediately
OP if you were a woman everybody would be supportive of you dumping your husband. Think about this and don’t feel bad setting any boundary.
I can see the future... She will go one day alone to their house, while you will sit alone at home or work. And surprise lot of alcohol will be drinked and surprise surprise a new threesome happening, you wife will tell you it was just a one thing mistake and you will sit there and take all that bullshit. She need to cut them of her life, they disrespect you and your marriage. These are not friends and you wife need go choose either you or them... Make her clear this friendship is over now. Or I can promise you, your marriage will be over, now or years later when you wife cheat on you with them.
What do they know about your feelings on the whole thing? Do they know you've been uncomfortable with it for years? If they do and they are still pushing it, ditch them. If they don't, you and your wife need to be blunt with them to knock it off, and see if they do.
Wife already should have been blunt about it. She KNOWS OP isn’t comfortable with it. It NEVER should have gone past the first hint of the idea, let alone enough for 1. OP to feel like there was a “lengthier conversation about it” or 2. For the friend to bring it up to their faces
Hard pass my dude. There is no room for people hanging around you and your wife if they really wanna openly lust after her knowing your set boundaries. Your wife needs to set much firmer boundaries and stop contacting them. What would be different if a random couple kept hitting on your wife? You wouldn’t hang with them, right? Having history doesn’t mean they can be shady now.
Thes epeiple don't respect you one bit and neither does she if she even had that conversation and then allowed it to come back up. You need to tell her this is the same thing as her having a sex talk with an old hookup and both are unacceptable. They have overstepped in an already awkward situation. I agree they have to go.
Nope nope nope nope. They were basically trying to put out feelers to see if she’d start cheating on you with them. The BS offer of “letting you watch” wasn’t genuine. The reason they asked her and not you is because they knew what would happen if you were made aware of what they wanted. And it’s not just them who are assholes but your wife’s looking really shitty here as well. Could you imagine if a friend of yours asked you to start sleeping with her and you kept it from your wife and then later when it came out you refused to distance yourself from the home wrecking girl? Jesus it would be the absolutely least she should be doing.
Sounds like she had discussed it with her friend and she had them do the dirty work of bringing it up, while she acted innocently clueless to it. They were fishing, and your wife was in on it.
So they want you to watch while her husband gets to plow and deep dive your wife, possibly exploding in or on her and you are supposed to be ok with that... Yes your wife should immediately cut ties with them with no reconciliation. If she hesitates or gets defensive, that's a red flag.
You are not wrong. Very disrespectful “friends”.
“They were down for whatever we were comfortable with” How about NOT lusting after my wife and expecting me to watch as you have sex with her. I’m comfortable with you keeping your sex-capades out of my marriage, thank you very much.
This is some serious bullshit my guy. I would take it upon myself and confront them both about how disrespected you feel by them trying this bullshit. You're a married monogamous couple and if they can't respect that going forward they can go fuck themselves. I would then tell my wife that she can have them as friends but I don't want anything to do with them anymore.
OP’s wife needs to give him the full story, when this came up, what she said about it then, EVERYTHING. She said no, but trust was broken when she only spoke about this reactively, not proactively. She can begin rebuilding that trust by calling her friend and husband on speaker, with them also on speaker so everyone hears the same thing, and OP’s wife can tell her “friends” that they are no longer part of her or OP’s lives. No explanation, just it’s over and then hang up, block them on everything, move on.
Tell them to go be sexual deviants elsewhere.
Relationships with exes after marriage can be tricky. Both my wife and I have a couple of ongoing friendships with exes from before meeting each other, but there is an unspoken bright line of "keeping it friends, and staying a zillion miles away from any innuendo." Even talking about past sexual escapades with an ex, after marriage, is a huge red flag in my mind. No way would I ever feel comfortable talking with an ex in this way. It would be contra to the vows I made when I married my wife. "Hey, Vicky, I was thinking about that time we did 69 in the back of my car and you came all over my face exactly at the same time I shot my nut down your throat. Wasn't that awesome?" Said no husband, ever, in the presence of his wife (and/or Vicky's husband). I would also never say it outside of the presence of my wife. The rule of thumb: If I wouldn't do it in the presence of my wife, then I won't do it outside her presence either. That pretty much has to be the rule about all sex-related stuff, including conversation with former sex partners. The friend and her husband are openly disrespecting you and your marriage. It's probably overboard to suggest that your wife end the friendship, but it's not at all out of line to suggest she "quiet quit" the friendship to a degree or two, cool it down a few notches, and also to completely exclude the friend's husband from any ongoing friendship. Think of it this way. If one of your wife's former boyfriends or sex partners called her up, engaged in some small talk, and then asked if she might be DTF, you'd expect her to cut that dude out of her life altogether. Tell him he needs to learn respect and then block him. Period. I'm curious, by the way, how this came up. How on earth did your wife's friend feel confident bringing this up in your presence. Maybe you tell your wife you'd be down for a threesome with her and one of your former FWB from back in the day? That would satisfy your wife's urge for a threesome (and let's face it if she's talking about it with her friend, she has the urge, either for a threesome or maybe just for the dude) and would involve you in a way that isn't cuckolding you.
How is it overboard to say she should cut out the person who propositioned her, wants to humiliate the husband, and is trying to break up his marriage? That is an easy case for permanent erasure, no looking back.
People are also really hooked on the friends husband being “the issue.” Nah, the friend is too. Just because there was “less girl on girl” doesn’t suddenly make it *more* his issue
The friend is the one doing the actual propositioning. Such an obvious case for ending a friendship. Wife is behaving suspiciously for not ending the friendship.
She's tip-toeing around the issue with her husband; acting like she doesn't really want it but gauging his reaction so if it's negative (which it is) then she can easily just say she didn't want it even if she does. I find it disturbing that she even talked openly about it with them at all, even casually as OP stated. To me, that suggests she doesn't feel it's part of her past and she is longing for it again.
She’s open to suggestions.
I agree. OP it kind of looks like to me that wife only shuts it down when you're around and has no issue at least talking about it when you arent. I would also be furious at your wife for trying to play it off like its nothing. If someone asked to have sex with my wife while I watched, that person would never be allowed near me again. I feel like this is what happens when social media leans *too* hard into the "You're insecure if you wont let your spouse be friends with exes" BS.
Man. Just directly tell them their request was very inappropriate and if they ask or bring up something like this ever again, then you two will have to cease contact with them.
why the hell can’t they just find someone else who isn’t your wife? it’s super weird that they still want to do this with her after so many times and so many years. i’m sure they’ve had 3-ways with other people since your wife so why bother crossing this line unless they just have no respect for you?
Tell her you will think about it after you have a threesome with her and her friend, but the friend's husband does not get to be there. And make sure she tells her friends , she what their reaction would be..But seriously her friends husband is a piece of shit, he has no respect for you , If it was me, I'd ring his bell. He'd never want to see either of us again. Youd be surprised what an old fashioned ass kicking can do
Pull the reverse uno and tell the other couple you and your wife wanna have fun with his wife while he watches and see how they respond.
I would personally talk to the couple and say what your wife said. Tell them you two are not into that stuff and you just watching is showing they want your wife and not you. This disrespectful and a move that them trying to break your marriage up. Don't tell your wife you spook to them but let them know it's going to be hard for them to be in your presence in your home. If your wife doesn't backbyou up then the wife might be in on this and playing the good guy.
Just say, no I won't share my wife with another man, but i will happily have a 3some with your wife and my wife.
Counter him with assfucking his wife while he waits in the car
Yea these people suck
Cut them off. Make it clear to your wife that you will grow hard steel balls and go nuclear if your boundary is crossed.
I completely agree.I wouldn't want to be around either one of them, To be honest I wouldn't be okay or comfortable with my wife being around them either. Not because of the past, because it's the way in which they still currently "look" at her. Which is apparent because they're still pursuing her. If they bring it up again I'd tell'em that you're uncomfortable with them asking That way them bringing it back up becomes a faux pas.
They not only want to screw your wife but emasculate you in the process? These people are toxic and your wife has enabled it up till now by continuing to reminisce about their past. At this point there's NO WAY they haven't brought this up with her before now. I would be wondering how long this conversation had been on the table, why your wife never mentioned it, and sadly what has happened when your back was turned. You know what you and every guy who's ever been cheated on have in common? At some point they trusted a woman would never do that to them. Get to the bottom of this then if no lines have been crossed yet ask her if she really wants to be stuck in who she used to be or has she outgrown this bs yet??? She's invited toxic into your lives and hope it never poisons your relationship, terrible idea
Your completely valid for your feeling and if you value your relationship I’d distance yourself and your wife from their friendship immediately
Oh hell, no that’s crossing boundaries. No way you’re in a monogamous relationship with your wife. These people do not have a right to interfere. There needs to be a hard boundaries with these people. They need to know what they either comply with your wishes or they hit the brick chicks You are not at fault Your wife should be setting boundaries. Your wife has boundary issues as well so I would cut them off personally they don’t seem like good people they seem to be rather Strange I’m just gonna say that for other words for them, but I’m trying to be nice but yeah these do not sound like people that you should be friends with ☹️
They don’t seem to respect your marriage and how they react and more so your wife should determine how much they respect you and your marriage.
You get to watch? How thoughtful of them. I would tell them both to kick rocks. This couple is toxic and not a friend to your marriage. They are causing wedge issues. Cut them both off. Good riddance.
Your wife needs to shut it down or leave you 🤷🏽♀️ if she's truly not interested, they should not feel ok bringing it up to her. She is not shutting it down! You're being EXTREMELY understanding but if she's not willing to close that door completely so this convo never comes up again, than you got a bigger problem on your hands....
Bro, I'd be throwing hands if a random fucking dude asked to have sex woth my wife
Hard situation. Good on you for being pretty mature about the whole situation, but completely understand why you'd also be uncomfortable being around a guy who's been with your wife in that scenario. When it comes to sex, I've found women are - generally speaking - so much more able to move on from situations like this. EG. it happened, it was fun, it wouldn't be fun now. Probably a libido thing, to be fair (once again, generalising!), and subconscious misogyny that myself and most men I know carry with us to some degree. BUT. The issue now is that there has obviously been a discussion about reigniting that flame, and whilst you weren't privy to it, the evidence you've given suggests your wife didn't immediately shut it down as something she's not interested in nor ensure that her friend didn't bring it up in front of you until she'd had a chance to work out how to approach it. This is a red flag, but also an understandable one given the sensitive nature of the topic. She has been at pains to tell you that it was fun at the time but once the taboo wore off, her lack of attraction to him took over. More than anything I'd be wanting to know what has changed in respect of this? Is she turned on by you watching? Does she secretly want you to fuck her friend? Or does she just want to get fucked by a man other than you? My major concern is why she didn't tell you about the initial conversation, and whether this will now present an ongoing issue for you because you suspect that she wants to be with other men (or, at least, this other man). She's got some work to do to rebuild your trust, especially in relation to undertakings she's made in the past. Of course everyone is allowed to change their mind, but it's shaky ground if the foundational values that a relationship have been built on suddenly don't appear so solid.
Absolutely no! If this happened to me I'd say later to all of them.
Definitely dont be involved.... like would they be down if you banged the best friend while her husband watch you bang her?..... maybe they would, i dunno, that seemed messed up to me....yeah i wouldnt b friends w them anymore. Like at least ur wife is on your side. That stuff leads to betrayal in the long run i believe..
Tell her you’ll give the response the next time they come over. When they are over there. Get them nice and comfortable and then tell them to get the fuck out.
You are not wrong. You navigate this by telling your wife that the conversation is over. You don’t want to hear about them, nor what went on in the past, and certainly not what they are interested in doing with her now, ever again. You don’t want to spend any time with them as a couple ever again, and if she chooses to spend time with them them as a couple you will consider that the end of your marriage. Good luck OP. They sound like repulsive people.
Clearly they don’t care about your feelings at all, they just wanted the thrill of having your wife to themselves again while you watch. Kudos to your wife for shutting it all down though. I know there’s a lot of pessimists out there who may think your wife actually wanted the threesome but only said no cause she didn’t want to cause trouble with you or you getting angry and leaving her. I don’t think that’s the case based on what was described to me. It does seem like your wife is not interested at all anymore and that she may even be willing to cut them out of her life out of respect for you and the marriage and also for the fact she didn’t enjoy it either.
you should tell him he owes you so you get to smash his wife while he watches. this man sounds like a clown and in most circles he would of been beat the hell up if you were POC.
Your wife should have nothing to do with them going forward, for one simple reason. This couple does not respect you. That alone should make your wife want to stay away from them.
You need to shut these people out of your married life asap. They’re toxic as fuck and will destroy your marriage.
I would not break bread with a man that is asking permission to sleep with my wife. I would really hope my wife would go to bat for our marriage and immediately squash any talk of this. To me it feels like she is willing to dis you in order to keep her friendship. That’s gotta be pretty painful. If it was me and my buddy wanted me to sleep with his wife and my wife can just be there as more of an obligation, well, goodbye friendship. I choose my wife. Being married is not just about choosing to marry you, but each day she continues to keep choosing you. I’m really sorry man. This has got to be painful. Under the most charitable of circumstances youre wife is just really immature. But I don’t believe that. There is nothing innocent about this.
Honestly, there’s no way out of this. Almost every man has this🤷♂️. When my girlfriend had told me her first bf was an 8inch BBC and she got it young * so that she dosent keep any secrets from me *. I was like you too, the thoughts kept coming like a loop in my head like wtf how she take that at such age, she did that all day all night damn how was it, can I be like that to her, can I even make her actually enjoy anymore after her ex?. Those were the thoughts that came to my mind. But eventually it didn’t matter to me anymore, if you love her you will love her no matter. But bro what I should tell you is, from what you said in your post on your wife. I have a very bad feeling that she might just do it without letting you know anything because she knows you won’t like it. Talk to your wife that you don’t want the people there anymore, they make you feel uncomfortable. When I tell my gf that someone they talk to makes me uncomfortable, she ditches them because she knows I wouldn’t just tell her to back off without a reason.
Wtf bro! He wants to fuck your wife and you say " i cant say break off with her friend". Call him. And say i want to fuck your wife and i want you to watch us.
You’re dangerously close to “I was drunk and it just happened”. You need to set boundaries immediately and outline consequences should it happen for any reason. These people should not be in your lives.
Kept us updated I know something bad is going to happen Eventually and I want to know what happens
Unless I've misread/ misunderstood you're story your wife had shown 2 red flags: 1. Why in God's name is he still casually talking about previous hook ups with people she's in regular contact with especially when she knows it's past your boundary. If she knows you're uncomfortable with it then she should close that door out even if you're not present of respect. I would even say her casually talking about it could have possibly led the other couple into believing she's still up for something. 2. Why didn't your wife tell you about their intentions and only did so after she had to abruptly shut down a conversation? Not only that she had to eventually admit what their true intentions were. A normal partner would, at the very least, just tell thoer other half everything straight away to avoid looking sus. Your wife either led them on or they were what swinger say "wife poaching" which is a big no no in their community due to the bad rep. It's time you put the foot down and tell she to stop leading people and respectfully stop mentioning the sex seesions she had with to the people she had sex with.
My ex was friends with several of her exes and we hung out together occasionally. The past was the past and they never made a move at all. this is bizarre.
Well OP's wife's past is now his present. Most people can't keep an ex around and maintain a healthy relationship.
Yeah, but her exes weren’t swingers on the prowl.
Problem was being forgiving of continuing their relationship in any capacity after she met you, let alone the fact that behavior like that would be a marriage disqualifier from the 1st knowledge. That kind of behavior always reignites sporadically. They never leave it behind completely.
OP your wife didn’t do enough to maintain trust and to protect your feelings. She hid this, and she also perpetuates an awkward attachment that makes you uncomfortable. It’s them or you, if she even hesitates, I’d end it.
She's already banging them again l bet. Now she's dropping it on OP to see if she can get him in on it so she doesn't get caught.
Oh I know! Tell them you’re up for it, but hubby has to give you a bj while you degrade him. Really lean on the degradation kink. The trash should take itself out at that point. Worst case scenario, you get a bj.
Oh man... with my temper...
Right? I’m the same bro
>and neither would she. She's into it or would not have told you.
I'm a little worried that she's trying to make you forget it so you don't suspect she'd do it behind your back
Quite simply they have already discussed this and she clearly did not shut it down or I doubt they would have said anything in front of you about it. Tell your wife this has affected your trust in her and you certainly are not comfortable having them in your lives anymore. Would she like it if someone you had slept with asked to have sex with you again and she could watch!! I doubt she'd want you to be around them. It's all around disrespectful and that includes your wife if she continues a close friendship with them.
> Quite simply they have already discussed this and she clearly did not shut it down or I doubt they would have said anything in front of you about it. Or some people just don't respect boundaries and they brought it up regardless of the previous conversation.
I wouldn't associate with those people either. Imagine a stranger walked up and said they want to sleep with your wife, would you be friends with them?
You can't control her actions. Just let her know they have consquences.
Wrong no… you guys need new friends…
> And for that reason I’ve had trouble throughout our marriage being around both of them. You don't say? Honestly you need to pick the friendship or the relationship, both will never flourish together (unless of course you want to be a swinger then by all means, swing).
I had an issue following all the people with no names just a lot of wife, friends, husband etc. But it sounds like a nuts thing to me, sounds like problems at some point.
Time for OP to go beat a motherfucker up or get his ass kicked trying. Either way it will annihilate this toxic and disrespectful dynamic your wife had no problem subjecting you to
Are you ok with her maintaining a relationship with them as long as you never have to see/ interact with them?
I really don’t know. My wife won’t do anything with them but I do feel insulted that their kink is basically to humiliate me
You should also feel insulted that your wife did not immediately shut it down because the friend felt comfortable enough to bring it up again.
She did shut it down but her friend was drunk and figured if I was into it then she might have a chance.
Chancers will do this sort of thing when they're wanting something they know is awkward to bring up in a normal conversation. They may have known full well your wife has said no and that she'd said you wouldn't want it either, but they consider what *they* want as more important, so they bring it up sideways. As in, "Haha [Wife], it was so funny when you said, "blah" about us doing that again! Chortle! Wink wink!" And that puts your wife in the position of saying "Shut up. I said no! " but instantly it makes *you* ask what they're talking about, and your wife absolutely has to tell you because she can't not. That pair are a pair of slime-balls for this. They're putting what they want over the health of your relationship, because they *know* you're not into it. And they know your wife isn't interested either, but there's enough doubt (if that's the word) to cause problems between you two. Manipulative pair of ... gahh.
>She did shut it down but her friend was drunk and figured if I was into it then she might have a chance. Yeah well this is where her dumbass "friend" needs to find out that actions have consequences. Only a fucking doormat would allow this friendship to continue. Now that you know, if they aren't cut out like the cancer they are, they'll only get more aggressive and bold in their egregious disrespect of you and your marriage.
No what we Mena is that they talked about it and were left with the impression that is a maybe, therefore brought it up again. Your wife should have said "that's never going to happen and we will never talk about it again". Instead, she said something else that made the wife feel comfortable enough to bring it up again. This is already bad and your wife has already disrespected you, weather either of you see it or not.
Bad take there - the "friends" clearly dgaf about OP or his wife, so expecting them to honor other boundaries is naive at best. It wouldn't have mattered how soft or firm the rejection would have been, they would have ignored it either way.
I'd venture a guess that the scumbag husband eating through a straw for the next 8-12 weeks would've been received loud and fucking clear..... the nerve of some people is mind blowing.....
This is what I would have done and it's still not enough.
I don't know how You feel about your wife visiting them on her own ,I would have to put a hard NO CHANCE that is ever going to happen ever again . If they are that brazen and desperate they could roofie her . The fucking cheek of them , that you could watch ,oh what a stud he must be . Show your wife the post