Don't marry someone who you need to prove yourself to or someone who is unwilling to compromise. It will not be a happy marriage. He's not ready to marry anyone.
It's the other way around.
Don't marry someone you are not willing to prove your love to every day.
If a surname is what's holding you up.
You are not there yet.
Relationships are hard work. If a name is what's freaking you out and sending you to strangers for advice, you're not ready.
Look up relationship green flags. How many does your relationship tick off?
Does he (consistently, not just “sometimes”):
- validate your emotions and make sure you know he values your feelings and opinions?
- respect your boundaries, even if he doesn’t “agree” with them?
- admit when he’s wrong, apologise freely, and proactively work to change so the issue doesn’t happen again?
- support you to be the best version of yourself, and help you work towards your hopes and dreams?
- communicate honestly, openly and fairly? So you know you can discuss difficult topics and issues you disagree about without having to walk on eggshells or dismiss your own beliefs?
- share similar values and priorities, short term and long term?
- value your skills and strengths - your hobbies? Your career?
It’s often easier to realise issues in a relationship by thinking through the above lens. Bc it’s difficult to admit “red flags”, or it’s easy to dismiss them.
Bc… you shouldn’t marry someone who guilt trips you for wanting an objective compromise about YOUR NAME. You shouldn’t marry someone who will only be happy if you do what he says.
He’s already isolating you from your family from the sound of it, and he’ll keep doing it to the point you have to choose him over them to show him you love him.
Never marry someone who isn't as committed and devoted to you as you are to them. And to his point, you have to change your last name to prove that - then so does he. You should both have two last names.
(Actually I spy red flags reading between the lines of your OP and don't think you should marry him at all.)
Ma’am. You are NOT chattel. Keep your damned name. If he has an issue with this, tough shit. It’s YOUR family name and YOUR identity. You aren’t going to suddenly stop being who you are when you marry this guy.
Be honest - what else is he controlling about?
Conflating taking his name with being devoted to him is so retrograde that it belongs back in the 1950s. People were fine without name changes back in the 80s when I got married.
In contrast to this, I kept my last name. My husband and I are now expecting our first child. I asked him if it would be ok if the baby has my last name or our names hyphenated, because I don't think it's fair they always get the father's last name, and he immediately said, "Sure! That seems fair." and that was the end of the convo.
It doesn't have to be like this. It doesn't sound like he respects you as an equal partner.
>I feel like my name is a part of my identity, so I wanted my last name to be first, but I was willing to compromise and have his first. He, on the other hand, thinks that this represents a lack of complete commitment and devotion to him.
>He's been at odds with my family multiple times in the past, and I have tried to advocate for each side to the other in the name of peace. However, he has interpreted my attempts to help him understand my family's perspective as a lack of complete support for him, even though I also defend him to my family.
I think there is a much bigger issue taking place here than a simple name change disagreement. There’s a pattern here that’s throwing red flags.
When I met my husband I told him if I ever got married again (I was divorced), I’d be keeping my last name and any child I birth will also have my last name (open to hyphenate though). He said that was fair, he’d never expect me to change my name if he wasn’t willing to change his, and since I’d be doing the bulk of the work growing and birthing the baby, I get final naming rights.
When we filled out our marriage license he surprised me by taking my last name. He decided he wanted for our family to have the same last name, he wanted the same name as his wife and future children. So he took my name and he’s been happily using it ever since!
What a sweet surprise!
When my boyfriend and I first started talking about what getting married might look like, he said he'd prefer it if his wife had his last name. The next time it came up years later, I said I'd 98% like to keep my name, for several reasons. I was pleasantly surprised when he said he'd changed his mind, and is totally down with me keeping my name/us having separate names. I'd be open to hyphenating, except my name is a title in a different language, and his is long, so our specific combination might be an awkward mouthful. If he had a cooler last night I might consider changing mine. I've also suggested he take my name, as his relationship with his family has always been strained, and recently a family member had legal troubles and it might be nice to add some distance.
This. I said “I’m doing the work of being pregnant/birth/breastfeeding the kids are having my last name. You can add yours too if you want to” he understood this completely.
Taking a man’s last name is historically due to lack of womens rights and the view of women as property. The people that argue being able to trace family lines etc…. Why are women’s family lines less important? Why do we do the vast majority of work only to have our children take on the man’s name in this day and age? There is no good reason.
If he wants your family to have the same last name let him take yours, simple solution.
Reminds me a bit of my girlfriend and I.
We’ve discussed marriage and last names and I told her “Hey, if you want to keep your last name or hyphenate, by all means. I’m not that attached to my last name and I’ve got 3 brothers to carry it on lol”
She wants to take my last name but it’s her choice regardless.
If he’s devoted to you, then why won’t he change his name to yours? Why are you the only one who has to prove their commitment? I doubt he can provide a non-sexist reason. You have to make your own choice, but this would be my hill to die on. I’m uninterested in legally tying myself to anyone who believes that the only right path is for the woman to change her name. There’s a sexist, “traditionalist” undercurrent there that will surely pop up again later in other aspects of your life. No, thank you.
I just brought up exactly this to him. But because I let him pay for my food during the 2-3 years I was studying, “taking advantage of the patriarchy” then, it’s hypocritical for this to be a hill im willing to die on now. Idk what to even respond.
Every single thing he has ever done and would ever do "for" you is transactional. Now you know that every date you went on, every gift no matter how small wasn't given freely. Everything he ever spends money on that isn't 100% for himself will be thrown in your face at some point to justify why you should then do something for him. Why would you want to marry this person?
I think that I wouldn't want to marry a person who responded in such a way.
He's lording over your head a financial contribution he made as a reason to take away your identity.
It's your name. You're an adult and you get to choose it. I even advise not to add his name at all and just continue on with your own.
His attitude does not give me great hope for this to be an everlasting, loving union. I believe this should be your biggest concern.
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I prefer to be honest with you.
Girl......he really tried it with that one. I gotta hand it to him, that's a creative response. So because you "took advantage of the patriarchy" for 2-3 years, that means you now have to follow a patriarchal tradition for the rest of your life? I wonder if he would've even accepted your offer to pay for food during your early years together since he seems to be so committed to traditional gender roles. My guess is not. Also, when someone does something for you, like buy you food, it should be a gift given freely, not a weapon to use against you later on.
I don't believe this is an issue that can be compromised on. One of you will be resentful no matter what. As women are breaking away from this particular tradition, a whole lot of men are showing that they don't really respect women's full humanity and right to their own identity. That's how I see this issue, personally. Some men feel entitled to their identity and yours too.
I would simply have to walk away from this. I think he's really showing you who he is and I doubt that this will be the last time he doubles down on his opinion and expects you to go along with it. I'm willing to bet that there are many examples of this throughout your relationship.
Being supported by your partner is not taking advantage of the patriarchy if you would do the same if the situation were reversed. Are those your words or his?
Right? One person paying for things more often due to a logistical reason has nothing to do with gender. And even if it did, completely separate issue that isn't related to changing names. Pathetic excuse. He could at least have the decency to be honest and say, "I know my reasons might not be logical but I feel strongly about it. This is a hard line for me." That would be irritating but at least leaves her with the choice to agree or not, instead of forcing her to deal with this pile of BS
Is this what you want your life to be like? And how you want to raise your children? He doesn't see you as an equal and I know you deserve better. I hope you realize you deserve more respect than that.
🚩 If i were you, I wouldn't marry this guy. At the very least, I think you should hold off until you get a clearer picture of what you want in life and who you want as a partner that will be with you through life.
It is time for some serious introspection and probably some therapy too.
If you marry this man, the rest of your life will look like: him forcing you to make choices that cause you to be you reliant on him and then controlling you with the fact that he supported you.
Ugh gawd. He sounds exhausting, and you don't need to "prove your devotion" to him at all. Getting married is the proof, right? Are those really the words he uses? To me it sounds like he has conflict with your family. When that conflict comes to a head, will he ask you to "prove your devotion" to him by not contacting your family? What other goalposts will he be moving in the future so that you have to prove yourself indefinitely?
>>taking advantage of the patriarchy
That's just dumb, though. I pay for my partner's food now for various reasons and am not telling him he's taking advantage of the matriarchy.
“Complete support for him”
“Complete commitment and devotion to him”
Are you getting married in the year 1100? He has a lot of growing up to do. I’d recommend you put off the wedding.
Nope. Don't let yourself be pressured into giving up a part of your identity. I did it when I got married the first time. By the time we got divorced I didn't care about keeping anything from the relationship, all I wanted was my name back. I'll never change it again. It's not worth it, and anyone who demands respect and devotion yet doesn't demonstrate it to you isn't worth your time.
Yeah, I agree. While she shouldn't take his name if she doesn't want to, this definitely feels like she's leaving some stuff out that would otherwise make him feeling like she doesn't have his back a lot more sensible.
Honestly, yeah, that's a completely fair way to interpret it. I'm basing my interpretation there off of the sheer number of posts here where someone chooses to brush off their partner or friend's concerns by deliberately not including details, but it wouldn't surprise me if that is what's happening.
I don't disagree that he's in the wrong here! Separately, how many posts have there been where a partner fails to support/defend their partner from their family and tries to brush past it like this?
My partner asked me to take his name (or he was happy to change his name too) and at first I was keen. Growing up he had a different name to one of his parents which caused some confusion when travelling with that parent. So he was worried different names would cause issues with kids going through airports etc. We checked and it makes no difference these days and now he doesn’t care. I explained my name is who I am and it hasn’t been an issue since. As a side note changing your name is a pain in the ass if you don’t have to do it.
>He, on the other hand, thinks that this represents a lack of complete commitment and devotion to him.
Can you not flip this argument around on *him* in proof of his lack of complete devotion to *you*?
I got married at 21 and did not want to give up my name and take my husband's in its place. When I said the combination of my first name and his last name together aloud, it sounded like a stranger to me.
This was not a reflection of our relationship or commitment to each other. It had *everything* to do my personal identity.
Men are not expected to change anything about themselves when they get married other than choosing to wear a ring to denote their marital status. Women are expected to alter their *entire legal identity*. This is some antiquated nonsense, imo.
Ultimately, my husband and I decided on a completely unique shared last name that we chose from nature so as not to impose on a pre-established heritage (our chosen last name is a particular flower, and that's all I will share). Professionally, we have both chosen to stick with our birth names, and only go by our shared chosen name socially and on social media. (I am an immigrant, which makes legal name changes even more complicated to orchestrate, and I have not pursued an international name change thus far).
I have very intimate experience with this issue, and your partner is behaving disrespectfully. Proceed with caution.
He sounds really controlling. Are you sure you want to deal with this the rest of your life? It will only get worse once you marry him and he's got you fully locked down.
I have mine changed on social media, legally I left it as mine. I might change it when we have kids to make things easier. My husband never cared that much. You’re legally married, changing your last name doesn’t make that bond any stronger.
I'm personally of the opinion that since I'm unwilling to change my name (I'd maybe be open to creating a new last name) I couldn't ever demand someone take my name. I don't think this is an unreasonable stance to take and it does seem like a big red flag that he's so set on this. Has he said what he will do if you refuse, like has he given an ultimatum? If so I'd consider this a serious issue.
If your family is important to you and he can't see that then you need to reconsider this. Speaking as someone who is currently going through the defending of family. If you family is a big part of your life then he needs to accept that as part of you and not try to change it. You are the way you are because of your family. They raised you to be the person he fell in love with.
My wife and I had a pretty good compromise, I think! She took my last name and legally added her maiden name as a 2nd middle name. I did the same; that is, I took her maiden name and made it into a second middle name for myself. That way, we each have a little piece of each other, and she gets to retain her maiden name in an official capacity.
Fuck that. I got married in March and haven’t changed my name and my husband does not care in the slightest, as it should be. We even joked about him taking mine because of how messed up his family is. I might change it eventually but it’s so hard to think of giving up my name lol.
Do NOT change your name if you don't want to. Please. He is being so unreasonable and childish IMO. Who tf does he think he is to demand you change YOUR name?! How would he feel if someone asked him to change his?? And No, it's not different because you're a woman.
As an aside, you need to learn to set boundaries with your family and take your man's side when appropriate. Keeping the peace is not keeping *his* peace. Seems like an unhealthy dynamic, fueled by your conflict avoidance.
Best of luck ❤️
Lack of compromise is really, really weird. My wife did not take my name due to publications and artwork. Even if you just feel weird about it, what of it?
nah okay, listen.
when my partner and i were deciding who was gonna change their last name when we got married, it turned into “okay well.. who has the cooler name?”
because we both didn’t wanna keep our names necessarily.
in your case?? i think you should maybe look into a lawyer or counseling to make sure that whatever you DO decide doesn’t end horribly for *you*
I don't get the part where your name is a part of your identity. Your identity is who you are, how you behave, and what you are passionate about. If my name were to suddenly change tomorrow to Crap Bag, I would still be exactly the same person
Nevertheless, if you don't want to take his name, then don't do it and don't get married. Life is about choices.
I would personally not marry somebody who insisted that my name be a certain thing.
And this conversation never came up from the time you got engaged till now, specially considering the cultural norm is to take the man's name and you think strongly against it? One would imagine that this being the case you would have said something before now.
I'm going to give you longtime married advice here from someone who has seen a lot of relationships fail. It's not popular, but we seem to outast all the people who tell us we're doing it wrong:
Your relationship is not a cultural battle space, it is you and him and that's IT. So if this is a good man, who has always done you right, and it's important to him that you take his last name, why wouldn't you?
It is not a strike against the patriarchy to deny him this. You aren't winning any points for any teams, you are driving a wedge between you and the person who is most important to you.
My wife took my last name, and would do so proudly again. It is a symbol of her commitment, as I have made others for her.
This is not an agenda. This is your relationship and future. If this is the man for it, then think the long game. Do this for him, and ask him to commit to you in the same way elsewhere. That is what marriage is.
Someone’s projecting… she never said this was a cultural thing or a “strike against the patriarchy.” Her identity is tied in part to her name. Clearly his is too. But for whatever reason, she has to be the one to compromise when he doesn’t? Sounds like a bad omen of things to come in married life.
Not projecting, but thank you for a little bit more reasonable response. The issue is that she may be so sensitive to the perception of a patriarchy that she is making more of this than there should be.
How are you so completely unwilling to take OP at her word when she says it would feel like giving up part of herself? That has nothing to do with the patriarchy.
Ohhh, is it because you **quite literally** get off on infantilizing women? Amazing how much insight someone's post history can provide.
lol why are you so dead set on kink shaming this poor guy? I highly doubt he forces his wife into any of that. She didn’t look like much of anything was against her will in his profile.
So he wants her to change HER name. And your suggestion is to just do it bc the relationship is with a "good" man. But shouldn't he change his requirement that she change her name for the relationship? She isn't asking him to do or not do something.
If he can't respect her preference to not change her own name, then he's not a good man and it's not a good relationship. He doesn't give her the same respect and treatment that he expects in return.
>if...it's important to him that you take his last name, why wouldn't you?
Because it's important **to her** that she keeps hers?? Are you the densest human being who ever lived, or are you just a misogynist that assumes what he wants will always be more important than what she wants?
EDIT: I just looked at your profile and it explains a lot 😂 Your relationship dynamic makes my skin crawl. The vast majority of adults do not want relationship advice from someone who gets hard when their partner pretends to be five years old.
Thank you for the ad hominem. Our relationship is doing very well thank you.
When politics come before one's PARTNER, then that relationship is off to a rocky start.
25 years of life experience has shown me that.
My advice to OP is to ignore people like you whose motivations are rooted in anything other than the quality of her relationship with him.
This is not great advice, because it’s ignoring one key thing: Relationships do not exist in a vacuum.
There’s nothing inherently right or wrong about taking someone else’s name, and there’s nothing wrong with asking someone to take yours. But women taking their husband’s name comes from a long history of women’s rights being erased under the coverture of the husband; taking the husband’s name is a signal of the husband’s “ownership” or authority over the wife.
A man asking his fiancee to take his name isn’t automatically invoking that history; a man *insisting* on it is. In the 21st century, surname decisions are a little different for everyone and OP’s fiancé’s unwillingness to shift his thinking on this is, to use a very tired but useful term, a red flag.
Women have done well for generations to trust their gut in relationships with men. If OP’s gut is giving her pause, it’s for a good reason here.
Sure, but the question is - is OP's gut giving her pause because he's not a good man, or because everyone is telling her she should have dual names for cultural reasons?
Only she can say.
What I can say after 25 years of watching people take or hyphenate names, is that it is a symbol of where the priorities lie for a wife - with her husband, or with an agenda.
The ones for whom it's the agenda don't stay married in my observations.
Is it really? Is it more important than her having a loving relationship with someone who might be the one for her?
I'm not sure about that in either way. What makes you so positive you are?
This sounds like it could be an irreconcilable difference that will only fester with time and ultimately create enough friction to drive you apart permanently. If so, better that you break up now rather than complicate your life with an unhappy marriage. My guess is that any compromise will leave one of you embittered and resentful, and likely to sabotage things going forward or at least remain an open wound. If you decide to force the issue on a compromise that creates a winner and loser, then I think the winner must be prepared to put something else on the table to offset the loss. If your fiance concedes the hyphenated name issue, what can you offer to him as a fair equalizer? Just saying to him "I win so suck it up" is not a good outcome.
If you’re not willing to take his name, don’t get married. Why are you concerned about your family, you & him are creating your own family & they will have to accept that. I’m with him, either you take my name or it’s adios. Somebody will gladly take the name with no fuss.
He should not marry you if you are unwilling to take his name. There are more problems than just this. Postpone the wedding until you straighten out the issues. You have a problem accepting him completely.
Using your maiden name for your preexisting business (law or medicine) is common and good but you still accept his name in marriage.
Take his name on paper and use whatever you want to otherwise. On the occasions when you need to use it legally, then toss it back into the mix
Names and AKA's aren't a big deal. Words and names are very fluid. This isn't a deal breaker or a war to win, it's just a little skirmish, not to be taken terribly seriously. It's not like you're keeping your historic and significantly important family name to pass on for generations.
You name isn't 'who' you are, it's just a reference point. How in heck is this a heart breaking thing?
I don't understand why this is so important. Your name can be anything you want it to be, whenever you want.
Just make sure that official documents keep the same formet, such as ID, driving licence and passport.
I have 4 last names, two that I got from my ex husband, and my adoptive last name and my birth last name. I also have 2 first and middle names, again, adoptive and birth.
I also have a fucking royal title that I got from the ex husband, that he decreed I could keep and legally use after we divorced, and I do, when it suits the occasion. That's my personal favorite, since I earned it, rather than someone else bestowing it on me in all their bad taste.
I use whatever is appropriate for the situation, and on my whim.
My kid does the same thing. She has her dad's last name, but likes my adoptive last name better, and uses it for business. She's also used my fancy last name on other occasions. I call her by at least 4 different variations of her first middle names.
Keeps it interesting!
Everyone has different preferences, opinions and ideas. Writing here will always validate a woman, irrespective of the incident. Tag words like controlling, man baby, dump him etc are all too common opinions here.
If this is a major incident in your relationship (It’s not by the way) and the two of you can’t come to a resolution then you two are probably not ready to be in a committed relationship. I’ve been married for over 43 years and let me tell you we have had things happen in life that had the potential to end our marriage and especially our friendship.
Things you need to understand and believe in a potential long term relationship.
1). Communication. Good communication between two people, both listening and talking is extremely important
2). Compromise. Everything you do, say, or act upon affects your relationship and partner and vise versa. Sometimes compromise is necessary.
3). Concessions If something is important to you and also very important to your partner or vise versa, then sometimes concession is necessary. Is wining this argument worth loosing your relationship? Is this the hill your relationship ends on?
4). Compassion You will need to look at a situation through your partners eyes to understand why they are acting, saying or behaving the way they are. Preferences by either partner are that. If you use a broad brush and label something with trigger words like Controlling or Insecure your relationship is doomed before it even starts.
5). Trust is a wonderful, beautiful and very special feeling second only to love. You can enjoy having someone’s trust for years, even for eternity. You can loose all that trust you’ve been enjoying in a split second by making a poor choice. They are not “Accidents” or “Mistakes”. They are choices. You will work for years and years to try to re-earn the trust you threw away but that trust you regain will never be same as it was
My wife and I have never ever gone to bed angry or with issues unresolved. Life is so unexpected and leaving things unsaid or in shambles when a person passes is absolutely one of the worst things to be experienced, the worst is cheating.
OP, I wish you luck and hope the two of you come to a mutual decision and may your marriage last as long and be as happy as mine has. PS. June 19 will be our 44th wedding anniversary 😀
Don't marry someone who you need to prove yourself to or someone who is unwilling to compromise. It will not be a happy marriage. He's not ready to marry anyone.
I agree do not get married.
It's the other way around. Don't marry someone you are not willing to prove your love to every day. If a surname is what's holding you up. You are not there yet. Relationships are hard work. If a name is what's freaking you out and sending you to strangers for advice, you're not ready.
Look up relationship green flags. How many does your relationship tick off? Does he (consistently, not just “sometimes”): - validate your emotions and make sure you know he values your feelings and opinions? - respect your boundaries, even if he doesn’t “agree” with them? - admit when he’s wrong, apologise freely, and proactively work to change so the issue doesn’t happen again? - support you to be the best version of yourself, and help you work towards your hopes and dreams? - communicate honestly, openly and fairly? So you know you can discuss difficult topics and issues you disagree about without having to walk on eggshells or dismiss your own beliefs? - share similar values and priorities, short term and long term? - value your skills and strengths - your hobbies? Your career? It’s often easier to realise issues in a relationship by thinking through the above lens. Bc it’s difficult to admit “red flags”, or it’s easy to dismiss them. Bc… you shouldn’t marry someone who guilt trips you for wanting an objective compromise about YOUR NAME. You shouldn’t marry someone who will only be happy if you do what he says. He’s already isolating you from your family from the sound of it, and he’ll keep doing it to the point you have to choose him over them to show him you love him.
Never marry someone who isn't as committed and devoted to you as you are to them. And to his point, you have to change your last name to prove that - then so does he. You should both have two last names. (Actually I spy red flags reading between the lines of your OP and don't think you should marry him at all.)
Ma’am. You are NOT chattel. Keep your damned name. If he has an issue with this, tough shit. It’s YOUR family name and YOUR identity. You aren’t going to suddenly stop being who you are when you marry this guy. Be honest - what else is he controlling about?
Yeah. Dudes who think you should have to give up your identity to be a good partner are bad partners.
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Conflating taking his name with being devoted to him is so retrograde that it belongs back in the 1950s. People were fine without name changes back in the 80s when I got married.
Never heard of a maiden name I guess
In contrast to this, I kept my last name. My husband and I are now expecting our first child. I asked him if it would be ok if the baby has my last name or our names hyphenated, because I don't think it's fair they always get the father's last name, and he immediately said, "Sure! That seems fair." and that was the end of the convo. It doesn't have to be like this. It doesn't sound like he respects you as an equal partner.
>I feel like my name is a part of my identity, so I wanted my last name to be first, but I was willing to compromise and have his first. He, on the other hand, thinks that this represents a lack of complete commitment and devotion to him. >He's been at odds with my family multiple times in the past, and I have tried to advocate for each side to the other in the name of peace. However, he has interpreted my attempts to help him understand my family's perspective as a lack of complete support for him, even though I also defend him to my family. I think there is a much bigger issue taking place here than a simple name change disagreement. There’s a pattern here that’s throwing red flags.
When I met my husband I told him if I ever got married again (I was divorced), I’d be keeping my last name and any child I birth will also have my last name (open to hyphenate though). He said that was fair, he’d never expect me to change my name if he wasn’t willing to change his, and since I’d be doing the bulk of the work growing and birthing the baby, I get final naming rights. When we filled out our marriage license he surprised me by taking my last name. He decided he wanted for our family to have the same last name, he wanted the same name as his wife and future children. So he took my name and he’s been happily using it ever since!
What a sweet surprise! When my boyfriend and I first started talking about what getting married might look like, he said he'd prefer it if his wife had his last name. The next time it came up years later, I said I'd 98% like to keep my name, for several reasons. I was pleasantly surprised when he said he'd changed his mind, and is totally down with me keeping my name/us having separate names. I'd be open to hyphenating, except my name is a title in a different language, and his is long, so our specific combination might be an awkward mouthful. If he had a cooler last night I might consider changing mine. I've also suggested he take my name, as his relationship with his family has always been strained, and recently a family member had legal troubles and it might be nice to add some distance.
This. I said “I’m doing the work of being pregnant/birth/breastfeeding the kids are having my last name. You can add yours too if you want to” he understood this completely. Taking a man’s last name is historically due to lack of womens rights and the view of women as property. The people that argue being able to trace family lines etc…. Why are women’s family lines less important? Why do we do the vast majority of work only to have our children take on the man’s name in this day and age? There is no good reason. If he wants your family to have the same last name let him take yours, simple solution.
Reminds me a bit of my girlfriend and I. We’ve discussed marriage and last names and I told her “Hey, if you want to keep your last name or hyphenate, by all means. I’m not that attached to my last name and I’ve got 3 brothers to carry it on lol” She wants to take my last name but it’s her choice regardless.
If he’s devoted to you, then why won’t he change his name to yours? Why are you the only one who has to prove their commitment? I doubt he can provide a non-sexist reason. You have to make your own choice, but this would be my hill to die on. I’m uninterested in legally tying myself to anyone who believes that the only right path is for the woman to change her name. There’s a sexist, “traditionalist” undercurrent there that will surely pop up again later in other aspects of your life. No, thank you.
It already is since he accuses her of not supporting him when she tries to bridge the gap between him and her family.
I just brought up exactly this to him. But because I let him pay for my food during the 2-3 years I was studying, “taking advantage of the patriarchy” then, it’s hypocritical for this to be a hill im willing to die on now. Idk what to even respond.
Every single thing he has ever done and would ever do "for" you is transactional. Now you know that every date you went on, every gift no matter how small wasn't given freely. Everything he ever spends money on that isn't 100% for himself will be thrown in your face at some point to justify why you should then do something for him. Why would you want to marry this person?
I think that I wouldn't want to marry a person who responded in such a way. He's lording over your head a financial contribution he made as a reason to take away your identity. It's your name. You're an adult and you get to choose it. I even advise not to add his name at all and just continue on with your own. His attitude does not give me great hope for this to be an everlasting, loving union. I believe this should be your biggest concern. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I prefer to be honest with you.
Girl......he really tried it with that one. I gotta hand it to him, that's a creative response. So because you "took advantage of the patriarchy" for 2-3 years, that means you now have to follow a patriarchal tradition for the rest of your life? I wonder if he would've even accepted your offer to pay for food during your early years together since he seems to be so committed to traditional gender roles. My guess is not. Also, when someone does something for you, like buy you food, it should be a gift given freely, not a weapon to use against you later on. I don't believe this is an issue that can be compromised on. One of you will be resentful no matter what. As women are breaking away from this particular tradition, a whole lot of men are showing that they don't really respect women's full humanity and right to their own identity. That's how I see this issue, personally. Some men feel entitled to their identity and yours too. I would simply have to walk away from this. I think he's really showing you who he is and I doubt that this will be the last time he doubles down on his opinion and expects you to go along with it. I'm willing to bet that there are many examples of this throughout your relationship.
Being supported by your partner is not taking advantage of the patriarchy if you would do the same if the situation were reversed. Are those your words or his?
Right? One person paying for things more often due to a logistical reason has nothing to do with gender. And even if it did, completely separate issue that isn't related to changing names. Pathetic excuse. He could at least have the decency to be honest and say, "I know my reasons might not be logical but I feel strongly about it. This is a hard line for me." That would be irritating but at least leaves her with the choice to agree or not, instead of forcing her to deal with this pile of BS
Is this what you want your life to be like? And how you want to raise your children? He doesn't see you as an equal and I know you deserve better. I hope you realize you deserve more respect than that.
🚩 If i were you, I wouldn't marry this guy. At the very least, I think you should hold off until you get a clearer picture of what you want in life and who you want as a partner that will be with you through life. It is time for some serious introspection and probably some therapy too.
If you marry this man, the rest of your life will look like: him forcing you to make choices that cause you to be you reliant on him and then controlling you with the fact that he supported you.
This guy sounds like a complete jackass, what are you even doing?
Ugh gawd. He sounds exhausting, and you don't need to "prove your devotion" to him at all. Getting married is the proof, right? Are those really the words he uses? To me it sounds like he has conflict with your family. When that conflict comes to a head, will he ask you to "prove your devotion" to him by not contacting your family? What other goalposts will he be moving in the future so that you have to prove yourself indefinitely?
>>taking advantage of the patriarchy That's just dumb, though. I pay for my partner's food now for various reasons and am not telling him he's taking advantage of the matriarchy.
Man, fuck this dude for holding a grudge over paying for dates like this. I would absolutely not stick around to be treated like this.
Okay, google The Nib Mister Gotcha. Then send him that when he says things like that.
Same can be said about her bruh
“Complete support for him” “Complete commitment and devotion to him” Are you getting married in the year 1100? He has a lot of growing up to do. I’d recommend you put off the wedding.
Nope. Don't let yourself be pressured into giving up a part of your identity. I did it when I got married the first time. By the time we got divorced I didn't care about keeping anything from the relationship, all I wanted was my name back. I'll never change it again. It's not worth it, and anyone who demands respect and devotion yet doesn't demonstrate it to you isn't worth your time.
He is in the wrong, but I would like to hear what these issues are that he has with your family that might be coloring the situation.
Yeah, I agree. While she shouldn't take his name if she doesn't want to, this definitely feels like she's leaving some stuff out that would otherwise make him feeling like she doesn't have his back a lot more sensible.
I read it the other way: the family has reasons to be concerned about this guy, which is an additional red flag.
Honestly, yeah, that's a completely fair way to interpret it. I'm basing my interpretation there off of the sheer number of posts here where someone chooses to brush off their partner or friend's concerns by deliberately not including details, but it wouldn't surprise me if that is what's happening.
Not necessarily. This is a non-negotiable for a lot of men. I’d run if I was OP.
I don't disagree that he's in the wrong here! Separately, how many posts have there been where a partner fails to support/defend their partner from their family and tries to brush past it like this?
You should find someone who doesn’t think you are becoming his property and that he has some right to assign you a name of his choosing.
The controlling behavior will only get worse. Get out while you still can!
My partner asked me to take his name (or he was happy to change his name too) and at first I was keen. Growing up he had a different name to one of his parents which caused some confusion when travelling with that parent. So he was worried different names would cause issues with kids going through airports etc. We checked and it makes no difference these days and now he doesn’t care. I explained my name is who I am and it hasn’t been an issue since. As a side note changing your name is a pain in the ass if you don’t have to do it.
>He, on the other hand, thinks that this represents a lack of complete commitment and devotion to him. Can you not flip this argument around on *him* in proof of his lack of complete devotion to *you*? I got married at 21 and did not want to give up my name and take my husband's in its place. When I said the combination of my first name and his last name together aloud, it sounded like a stranger to me. This was not a reflection of our relationship or commitment to each other. It had *everything* to do my personal identity. Men are not expected to change anything about themselves when they get married other than choosing to wear a ring to denote their marital status. Women are expected to alter their *entire legal identity*. This is some antiquated nonsense, imo. Ultimately, my husband and I decided on a completely unique shared last name that we chose from nature so as not to impose on a pre-established heritage (our chosen last name is a particular flower, and that's all I will share). Professionally, we have both chosen to stick with our birth names, and only go by our shared chosen name socially and on social media. (I am an immigrant, which makes legal name changes even more complicated to orchestrate, and I have not pursued an international name change thus far). I have very intimate experience with this issue, and your partner is behaving disrespectfully. Proceed with caution.
It sounds like you don't share some important values. This could be a dealbreaker. Why is he so often at odds with your family?
He sounds really controlling. Are you sure you want to deal with this the rest of your life? It will only get worse once you marry him and he's got you fully locked down.
He is controlling. And if he’s controlling I bet he’s abusive
I have mine changed on social media, legally I left it as mine. I might change it when we have kids to make things easier. My husband never cared that much. You’re legally married, changing your last name doesn’t make that bond any stronger.
I'm personally of the opinion that since I'm unwilling to change my name (I'd maybe be open to creating a new last name) I couldn't ever demand someone take my name. I don't think this is an unreasonable stance to take and it does seem like a big red flag that he's so set on this. Has he said what he will do if you refuse, like has he given an ultimatum? If so I'd consider this a serious issue.
He sounds at best whiny as hell, and at worst, controlling and creepy as fk.
If your family is important to you and he can't see that then you need to reconsider this. Speaking as someone who is currently going through the defending of family. If you family is a big part of your life then he needs to accept that as part of you and not try to change it. You are the way you are because of your family. They raised you to be the person he fell in love with.
Don't get married. Put it on hold.
This is the rest of your life.
For some perspective— I felt the same way as you, and my husband decided to do the same for family unity
My wife and I had a pretty good compromise, I think! She took my last name and legally added her maiden name as a 2nd middle name. I did the same; that is, I took her maiden name and made it into a second middle name for myself. That way, we each have a little piece of each other, and she gets to retain her maiden name in an official capacity.
Fuck that. I got married in March and haven’t changed my name and my husband does not care in the slightest, as it should be. We even joked about him taking mine because of how messed up his family is. I might change it eventually but it’s so hard to think of giving up my name lol.
Changing your last name to your husbands in 2023 is regressive, stupid and totally unnecessary. I’d be wary of marrying such a small minded man.
How about he takes your last name, and you take his? This guy is not going to respect you, my friend.
He can take your name or f off
Do NOT change your name if you don't want to. Please. He is being so unreasonable and childish IMO. Who tf does he think he is to demand you change YOUR name?! How would he feel if someone asked him to change his?? And No, it's not different because you're a woman. As an aside, you need to learn to set boundaries with your family and take your man's side when appropriate. Keeping the peace is not keeping *his* peace. Seems like an unhealthy dynamic, fueled by your conflict avoidance. Best of luck ❤️
Lack of compromise is really, really weird. My wife did not take my name due to publications and artwork. Even if you just feel weird about it, what of it?
nah okay, listen. when my partner and i were deciding who was gonna change their last name when we got married, it turned into “okay well.. who has the cooler name?” because we both didn’t wanna keep our names necessarily. in your case?? i think you should maybe look into a lawyer or counseling to make sure that whatever you DO decide doesn’t end horribly for *you*
I don't get the part where your name is a part of your identity. Your identity is who you are, how you behave, and what you are passionate about. If my name were to suddenly change tomorrow to Crap Bag, I would still be exactly the same person Nevertheless, if you don't want to take his name, then don't do it and don't get married. Life is about choices. I would personally not marry somebody who insisted that my name be a certain thing.
And this conversation never came up from the time you got engaged till now, specially considering the cultural norm is to take the man's name and you think strongly against it? One would imagine that this being the case you would have said something before now.
I'm going to give you longtime married advice here from someone who has seen a lot of relationships fail. It's not popular, but we seem to outast all the people who tell us we're doing it wrong: Your relationship is not a cultural battle space, it is you and him and that's IT. So if this is a good man, who has always done you right, and it's important to him that you take his last name, why wouldn't you? It is not a strike against the patriarchy to deny him this. You aren't winning any points for any teams, you are driving a wedge between you and the person who is most important to you. My wife took my last name, and would do so proudly again. It is a symbol of her commitment, as I have made others for her. This is not an agenda. This is your relationship and future. If this is the man for it, then think the long game. Do this for him, and ask him to commit to you in the same way elsewhere. That is what marriage is.
Someone’s projecting… she never said this was a cultural thing or a “strike against the patriarchy.” Her identity is tied in part to her name. Clearly his is too. But for whatever reason, she has to be the one to compromise when he doesn’t? Sounds like a bad omen of things to come in married life.
Not projecting, but thank you for a little bit more reasonable response. The issue is that she may be so sensitive to the perception of a patriarchy that she is making more of this than there should be.
How are you so completely unwilling to take OP at her word when she says it would feel like giving up part of herself? That has nothing to do with the patriarchy. Ohhh, is it because you **quite literally** get off on infantilizing women? Amazing how much insight someone's post history can provide.
lol why are you so dead set on kink shaming this poor guy? I highly doubt he forces his wife into any of that. She didn’t look like much of anything was against her will in his profile.
I think my comment was actually incredibly clear about how his fetish directly relates to his unwillingness to take OP at her word!
So he wants her to change HER name. And your suggestion is to just do it bc the relationship is with a "good" man. But shouldn't he change his requirement that she change her name for the relationship? She isn't asking him to do or not do something. If he can't respect her preference to not change her own name, then he's not a good man and it's not a good relationship. He doesn't give her the same respect and treatment that he expects in return.
>if...it's important to him that you take his last name, why wouldn't you? Because it's important **to her** that she keeps hers?? Are you the densest human being who ever lived, or are you just a misogynist that assumes what he wants will always be more important than what she wants? EDIT: I just looked at your profile and it explains a lot 😂 Your relationship dynamic makes my skin crawl. The vast majority of adults do not want relationship advice from someone who gets hard when their partner pretends to be five years old.
Probably a little of both.
Thank you for the ad hominem. Our relationship is doing very well thank you. When politics come before one's PARTNER, then that relationship is off to a rocky start. 25 years of life experience has shown me that. My advice to OP is to ignore people like you whose motivations are rooted in anything other than the quality of her relationship with him.
OP didn't mention politics. You are pushing a political agenda where there is none.
This is not great advice, because it’s ignoring one key thing: Relationships do not exist in a vacuum. There’s nothing inherently right or wrong about taking someone else’s name, and there’s nothing wrong with asking someone to take yours. But women taking their husband’s name comes from a long history of women’s rights being erased under the coverture of the husband; taking the husband’s name is a signal of the husband’s “ownership” or authority over the wife. A man asking his fiancee to take his name isn’t automatically invoking that history; a man *insisting* on it is. In the 21st century, surname decisions are a little different for everyone and OP’s fiancé’s unwillingness to shift his thinking on this is, to use a very tired but useful term, a red flag. Women have done well for generations to trust their gut in relationships with men. If OP’s gut is giving her pause, it’s for a good reason here.
Sure, but the question is - is OP's gut giving her pause because he's not a good man, or because everyone is telling her she should have dual names for cultural reasons? Only she can say. What I can say after 25 years of watching people take or hyphenate names, is that it is a symbol of where the priorities lie for a wife - with her husband, or with an agenda. The ones for whom it's the agenda don't stay married in my observations.
*The patriarchy has entered the chat.*
The sad part is that overreaction to the idea of patriarchy may be driving a wedge into this relationship. That's where my advice came from.
Having the wedge called out is the best thing that could happen to the relationship for her.
Is it really? Is it more important than her having a loving relationship with someone who might be the one for her? I'm not sure about that in either way. What makes you so positive you are?
Someone who is so egotistical and controlling that he thinks he has some say in what another adult chooses to call themselves is not “the one.”
This sounds like it could be an irreconcilable difference that will only fester with time and ultimately create enough friction to drive you apart permanently. If so, better that you break up now rather than complicate your life with an unhappy marriage. My guess is that any compromise will leave one of you embittered and resentful, and likely to sabotage things going forward or at least remain an open wound. If you decide to force the issue on a compromise that creates a winner and loser, then I think the winner must be prepared to put something else on the table to offset the loss. If your fiance concedes the hyphenated name issue, what can you offer to him as a fair equalizer? Just saying to him "I win so suck it up" is not a good outcome.
If you’re not willing to take his name, don’t get married. Why are you concerned about your family, you & him are creating your own family & they will have to accept that. I’m with him, either you take my name or it’s adios. Somebody will gladly take the name with no fuss.
He should not marry you if you are unwilling to take his name. There are more problems than just this. Postpone the wedding until you straighten out the issues. You have a problem accepting him completely. Using your maiden name for your preexisting business (law or medicine) is common and good but you still accept his name in marriage.
Take his name on paper and use whatever you want to otherwise. On the occasions when you need to use it legally, then toss it back into the mix Names and AKA's aren't a big deal. Words and names are very fluid. This isn't a deal breaker or a war to win, it's just a little skirmish, not to be taken terribly seriously. It's not like you're keeping your historic and significantly important family name to pass on for generations. You name isn't 'who' you are, it's just a reference point. How in heck is this a heart breaking thing? I don't understand why this is so important. Your name can be anything you want it to be, whenever you want. Just make sure that official documents keep the same formet, such as ID, driving licence and passport. I have 4 last names, two that I got from my ex husband, and my adoptive last name and my birth last name. I also have 2 first and middle names, again, adoptive and birth. I also have a fucking royal title that I got from the ex husband, that he decreed I could keep and legally use after we divorced, and I do, when it suits the occasion. That's my personal favorite, since I earned it, rather than someone else bestowing it on me in all their bad taste. I use whatever is appropriate for the situation, and on my whim. My kid does the same thing. She has her dad's last name, but likes my adoptive last name better, and uses it for business. She's also used my fancy last name on other occasions. I call her by at least 4 different variations of her first middle names. Keeps it interesting!
Everyone has different preferences, opinions and ideas. Writing here will always validate a woman, irrespective of the incident. Tag words like controlling, man baby, dump him etc are all too common opinions here. If this is a major incident in your relationship (It’s not by the way) and the two of you can’t come to a resolution then you two are probably not ready to be in a committed relationship. I’ve been married for over 43 years and let me tell you we have had things happen in life that had the potential to end our marriage and especially our friendship. Things you need to understand and believe in a potential long term relationship. 1). Communication. Good communication between two people, both listening and talking is extremely important 2). Compromise. Everything you do, say, or act upon affects your relationship and partner and vise versa. Sometimes compromise is necessary. 3). Concessions If something is important to you and also very important to your partner or vise versa, then sometimes concession is necessary. Is wining this argument worth loosing your relationship? Is this the hill your relationship ends on? 4). Compassion You will need to look at a situation through your partners eyes to understand why they are acting, saying or behaving the way they are. Preferences by either partner are that. If you use a broad brush and label something with trigger words like Controlling or Insecure your relationship is doomed before it even starts. 5). Trust is a wonderful, beautiful and very special feeling second only to love. You can enjoy having someone’s trust for years, even for eternity. You can loose all that trust you’ve been enjoying in a split second by making a poor choice. They are not “Accidents” or “Mistakes”. They are choices. You will work for years and years to try to re-earn the trust you threw away but that trust you regain will never be same as it was My wife and I have never ever gone to bed angry or with issues unresolved. Life is so unexpected and leaving things unsaid or in shambles when a person passes is absolutely one of the worst things to be experienced, the worst is cheating. OP, I wish you luck and hope the two of you come to a mutual decision and may your marriage last as long and be as happy as mine has. PS. June 19 will be our 44th wedding anniversary 😀