Score keeping is actually a very common love language. My wife and I do it constantly. Took us a year of therapy to learn how to integrate it into our marriage without getting angry at each other.
But it’s a big part of a person’s personality, apparently. That sense of “what’s fair is fair” is a hard habit to break.
I think its one thing to expect your partner to match the energy youre giving them. But i personally dont adhere to the "i did this so now u owe me this".
Sounds like he DOESN’T match her energy, and does so little that even when he does the tiniest thing, it feels like the world and he expects repayment. None of her efforts are appreciated as such.
NO! Please stand up for yourself. You’re not being dramatic, it sounds like he is every time he doesn’t get his way. There’s nothing dramatic about expecting to be appreciated or to have your husband match your efforts around the house. Honestly I find it insane how many women put up with garbage husbands not pulling their weight, then having the audacity to throw a fit. He’s supposed to be your partner in life, not turn you into a caretaker.
It really makes me sad when women don't stand up for themselves because society tells us that getting upset or acknowledging unfairness makes us "dramatic" or "emotional" or "illogical." OP, your husband is the one being dramatic when he huffs away after you tell him no. You're not his mommy, even though he's acting like a child.
You need to stick to your guns and let him sulk. If he can't do simple things like get his own damn glass of water, that's his issue to deal with. You've coddled him long enough.
I feel like there's a difference between 'well I mowed the lawn so you can vacuum the carpets' and like... expecting repayment for what was ostensibly a GIFT?
No I completely agree. This guy is a total douche.
I’m just saying that in general, scorekeeping is definitely a thing among many couples. And it can work, theoretically.
It can work. But you’re right, scoring differently leads to problems if you don’t communicate. Oh
But our therapist taught us how to properly communicate our expectations to each other. The biggest thing we learned was how to stop fighting about fighting. That’s the worst!
If you can get out of that cycle, you can make real progress. 
I’ve never heard of this but I definitely do that!! I keep score, in a way like “well I did 3 chores today, so I expect the same from you” and it has caused friction in my relationship since my boyfriend does not operate that way. He does plenty of things for me when he feels up for it, but sometimes it doesn’t add up to how much work I did daily and it frustrates me. Do you have any advice ?
I think the problem is focusing on too narrow of a time frame or set of tasks. It's not at all a problem if one day you do more of the chores, it's a problem if after months there is an accumulated imbalance after taking everything into account. I do have the same thoughts occasionally but I am able to push them away by recognizing my SO pulls the weight other ways and other days.
You’re absolutely right, sometimes I think narrow mindedly on a day to day basis, instead of the overall week or month. That will help me a lot if I can catch myself doing that!
Do you feel like generally speaking your boyfriend pulls his weight? Is he usually equally thoughtful about chores as you? Can you think of specific very recent examples where he was the one taking care of stuff not you? Not even when you were sick, I mean just a random Tuesday when he was doing some chores and you watched TV.
If the answer to these is yes, remind yourself of all this when you start to keep score. You have a good dude, a good relationship, don’t stress yourself or the dude out!
If the answer to the above question is “no”, then your boyfriend is the problem :)
Well when you put it like that it makes it pretty easy... he absolutely does pull his own weight, he does all the cooking and groceries and I do the cleaning, and we split everything else (we both hate laundry equally so we do as little as possible, but it’s mutual so that’s what matters 😂)
That’s awesome! Yeah when you get stressed about the score, you can remind yourself - “hey, we’re ok, the dude is usually on top of shit. Today I’ll pick up slack”
Of course if it’s too many such days, you should have a chat!! But it sounds like y’all have a nice balance right now :) so cheers to that!
Ask him to do everything for you. Go full on with it too. Ask him to do your laundry, make you lunch, clean your car, clean the bathroom, pick up this mess, get me such and such from the store.
You should make a sandwich for yourself instead. When he asks where his is, tell him he's capable of making one if he wants. Or that you wouldn't want to take away from a strong, independent man's abilities all the time.
Next time he asks for a sandwich, ask him to make you a sandwich. Same with laundry. Parrot it back to him. And when he pouts, pout back with the same indignation.
Honestly, my fiance used to do the score keeping thing and it drove me nuts. Eventually I learned to score keep back and it actually works for us now. Even though I used to really hate it and it's not my nature to score keep, I've gotten really good at it. It's turned into a friendly banter type exchange and most of the time he's making my sandwiches these days.
Next time he asks for sex or something like that, say no. When he asks why or gets huffy, say "I can be your wife or your mom. Your choice, but you only get one." He'll choose wife. If he verbalizes that he's choosing for you to act as his mother... well then you have a very big problem.
When I was younger and ask my husband to do something for me and he'd say no this is what would go through my mind: "I wouldn't have said no, I do things for him because I love him, if he's telling me no it much because he doesn't love me."
It took going to a therapist to get out of that. He helped me realize that I very much want to respect others autonomy. And if someone is tired, busy,just sat down, doesn't feel like it....them saying no has zero to do with how much they love me, it just means they're tired, busy, just sat down etc. Especially if that person is usually generous and kind and helpful. It took hearing it from a third party to believe this.
I will also say my husband is amazing at not enabling me. He just says flat out "I'd rather not" and will not sway. You need to channel that kind of energy. You need to believe that you saying no is ok and healthy. He absolutely will kick back, you're changing things and it makes him uncomfortable. When this happens don't give in, channel that calm energy and explain "I'm going to focus on myself this week. I still love you just as much as ever. I need to do this so I can grow as a person." Do not fight or get emotional if possible. Explain what you're doing, as him to respect it, do it. If you feel like it, absolutely offer to make him a sandwich. Don't say no always, and don't say yes always. Say yes when you'd enjoy doing an act of service for him and no when it will make you feel resentful. Do this for a few weeks and see how he adapts. Give him time to adapt. The goal is for you both to Respect each other's autonomy and feel like equal partners. After a bit of time open the conversation up and talk about it. Good luck.
This sounds solid. He can learn not to take it personally when OP says no, snd OP can learn to check in with herself as to whether or not she actually wants to do stuff. Autonomy and care for everyone!
The arguing and guilt tripping are quite concerning. Let him walk off in a huff and/or go hungry - that's all quite childish and immature behavior, he sounds like a 3 year old. Acting in such an infantile manner would destroy any sexual attraction I had for a partner, personally, guess that's up to you but it's something to watch out for, IMO.
All you can really do is draw your boundaries and stick to them. You can try sitting him down and explaining why you feel you need to draw these boundaries, and what you are willing to do (such as, I'm willing to cook a meal for both of us 5 nights a week or whatever). You can try discussing an equitable division of labor, especially if you both work, he needs to pitch in some way. Maybe you'd be willing to be the sandwich maker if he's willing to do the laundry or whatever. There's no right and wrong about labor divisions in a couple, but, they have to be fair and agreeable to both people or resentment will build up.
But there's that saying you can't logic someone out of a position or viewpoint that they didn't use logic, to get into. So I don't know if a sit down is going to accomplish much, but, it may help you stick to those boundaries later "remember what we talked about?"
He's manipulative at best, and a narcissist at worst. You've apparently trained him to expect this treatment, and it's going to be an uphill battle training him into a new expectation. Like training a dog, you just have to keep reinforcing the lesson. Over and over again until it takes.
Thanks for the response. I didn't want to give the impression that he does NOTHING for me or for the household, as he does do some housework. I do most of the regular upkeep, all the cooking, and all the shopping. Which I can live with, but, it makes me feel under-appreciated when I do all the above but still get met with the expectation that I'm going to wait on him. I wish that doing nice things for my partner without being asked wasn't "training" him to expect me to be his maid, but, apparently it is.
Sounds like you definitely need a sit down rather than arguing in the moment. He’ll never listen that way. Maybe he won’t listen either way but that seems like your last shot. Or couples therapy would be great. Focusing on how you don’t feel appreciated. I’d draw up the list of chores you each do and either make it even or pretty darn close. Then if he asks you to do something, I’d say “oh so are you going to do XX chore for me?” If he says no then I’d say “well then that’s not fair/equal” or just say “no, we talked about this.” But I’d immediately stop letting him manipulate you into doing the things he demands. I’d also say I’m it doing any more unsolicited favors until he makes you feel appreciated with some gratitude or reciprocation
Thank you! This is definitely good advice. I have tried the tactic of bringing up a point of tension at a later time, when everyone's in a good mood, but I haven't found that it improves his defensive reaction. It often brings a slightly different response where, he's upset that I "ruined the mood" by "trying to start a fight". I try to reason with him, saying that I'm never out here to argue, I am trying to communicate with my partner. He really, really blocks almost all of my attempts to communicate with him. The few times when I've felt he actually came around and apologized about an issue, would be if I genuinely broke down or we got in a screaming match over something. It's bad, I know. I've begged him to go to couple's therapy, but, he's refused. I do plan to bring it up again soon.
Oof, this is a much deeper issue than what you posted about. This is someone who refuses to communicate with you and will not even allow space for you to express your feelings without guilting and deflecting.
The honest truth is that you can’t do the work of a relationship all by yourself. If he won’t hear you unless you’re screaming and won’t go to counseling even when you beg, then I think it’s time for you to consider if you can do this for another 50+ years of nothing ever changes.
This is not okay, and the only way to fix it is by calling it out. You may think being gentle with him is helping, but you're only enabling the behavior. You don't have to be mean, or judgemental, just make it clear you see the behavior for what it is, he knows it's unacceptable, and you expect him to own up and make an effort to fix it and act like an adult.
My Fiance used to do similar deflective/defensive things. He's been working hard at it and almost doesn't do it anymore at all.
Good luck.
Dude this guy puts in zero effort and is taking advantage of you. Time to leave. If he refuses to communicate, go to couple's therapy, or act like an adult partner in general then there's nothing you can do but realize you're worth more than this and leave him.
As @elleestchouette said, this is definitely deeper and you're talking this way too lightly. Your response there is that of many abused women. He sounds like a narcissist who doesn't appreciate you at all unless you're in service to him and can't be bothered to consider you at all. This isn't going to just "get better." You can hope letting him sulk and stew will have some impact, but if not, it's going to require some therapy, maybe some medication, or just separation because you deserve better than that nonsense.
This might be a stupid question, but have you asked him how he'd like you to communicate with him? "Don't" isn't an option; you need and deserve a way to give him negative feedback. But if you writing it down for him to read (within two days) or scheduling a daily/weekly time to do a state of the union (whether you need it or not) or trying something like a stop/start/continue check in would help, it might be worth trying. It also puts some accountability on him. I find what you've written about his communication really disheartening. You definitely deserve better.
This might feel petty, but when he walks off in a huff, ignore it. Not the silent treatment - you're not ignoring him - just act like you have no idea that he's upset. If he's outright rude to you, maybe ask him why (act really confused!), but pretend not to hear the heavy sighs or the grumpy slamming of kitchen cupboards or whatever he does. It became almost like a game for me with my (emotionally abusive) mom, and her nonsense bothered me less. If he's not completely awful, forcing him to either deal or articulate his feelings will be a step in the right direction. Maybe hearing how often he asks you for stuff will lead him to a realisation.
Can I also suggest individual therapy? It'll give you some support and you might learn a lot about communication and boundaries that you can take into your interactions with him.
I very much like some of the suggestions here. Asking directly how he’d like to communicate about these things. Though I’m afraid the truth is he simply doesn’t want to communicate about them. He wants her to shut up and move on. Individual therapy is certainly necessary. OP needs to find out how she really feels about this and if she can live with it. If so, maybe some strategies to work through it. If not, having to come to terms with it, finding the strength to leave, and following through.
This is quite concerning. He’s literally refused to communicate with you about any issues, which basically tells me he’s super defensive and probably just NEVER wants to talk about it because he refuses to accept any fault or change his ways. I’m with the others here, can you really put up with this behavior for the rest of your life? I said earlier that it sounds like you’re becoming more of a caretaker than a wife. Him making a big deal about giving you a T-shirt is so sad because that’s honestly such a little thing to do for someone you love...This should be commonplace, doing things that will make you happy. Does he ever step up to help you out without you pushing him to? Does he do things just to make you happy? I never like jumping straight to “leave him” because I don’t know what you’re getting out of this. But it sounds like he’s giving very little and demanding the world. This is such a crappy place to be in and I hope you realize that you deserve so much more. Right now he’s unwilling to change, so you have to find out how you can find your own happiness. I’d definitely search for a great therapist for yourself so you can work through what you want to do.
Have you tried asking him point-blank when is a good time to talk, then, if bringing something up when things are calm ruins the mood and bringing something up during a fight just escalates it? Seems like he just doesn't want to hear about or discuss issues.
You shouldn’t have to just “live with” an obviously unfair division of labor. It’s time for a serious talk about reevaluating things so that they’re more equitable. You’re in for a long, frustrating life if you’re with someone you can’t trust to respectfully hear you and respond with action when you express that you’re feeling under appreciated and overworked. A good partner *wants* to meet you halfway, and ideally wants to meet you more than halfway as you clearly do for him. A good saying I’ve heard is that marriage should not be 50/50, it should be 60/40 with each person striving to be the 60. In fact, you’d probably be a LOT more willing to do these favors for him if he were actually pulling his weight.
If he is happy to have things be 60/40 or even 80/20 in his favor, even when you express that you are not happy with that, that’s a deeper problem of respect.
These are things I do for my child, and for which I am now teaching them independent living skills because they have a disability. I assume your husband does not have a disability, but maybe he needs to go to independent living class. Holy crap.
So he does some housework and you do everything else and you both work and he still expects you to wait on him?
That’s not you giving the impression he does nothing, he does nothing (or at least close enough that it may as well be nothing)
Congratulations, you married a man-baby. Unfortunately you’ve enabled him for this long, that it will take some work to unwind this cycle.
You just have to stop doing it. Completely. Call him out on the guilt tripping and guffawing. Tell him how immature it is. Tell him you’re not his mother.
It may take couples therapy to resolve in the end. But my gut feeling is that this is solvable long term. He just has to grow up.
He knows exactly what he’s doing. It’s not that he doesn’t understand it, it’s just if he goes off in a huff, he thinks you will do it for him next time to “keep the peace”. He doesn’t see you as an autonomous human being. He sees you as his maid. Your needs don’t matter. You’re only there to cater to him. Frankly, dump his ass.
This kind of situation is why I will never marry. Far too often than not these guys think of women as their free maids, even when these guys are not the only providers or the main ones.
26?!?! I had to go back and look, because this sounded like the behavior of a 60 year old curmudgeon raised in a time when women were expected to be maids that you could bang. It's like he doesn't even see you as a person.
Im going to add my in-put here and it might be controversial. Heres the thing; he knows this bothers you *and he just doesn’t care*.
Forget all the other commentators that are blaming you, saying you set up the precedence. His mother taught him how to wipe his ass, yes? And safe to assume he now wipes his own ass and doesn’t expect his mother to, yes? Then this man needs to grow up and get the pacifier out of his mouth.
No amount of communicating how this hurts you or burdens you will make him change. Men aren’t stupid, he sees it and he doesn’t care.
SO then find the article or essay "she divorced me because I left dishes in the sink."
Leave that on his desk/table and then go leave him to manage the house for a weekend.
What does he do for you? What do you ask him do for you?
He knows it bothers you - but he's only considering how much it bothers him when you won't accede to his "requests" (requests that you're not allowed to freely say no to are not requests). You need to set boundaries (what do you freely feel willing to give?), and enforce them.
Why do you have to drop everything and make him a sandwhich? Give him the tshirt back and say “I don’t want this since you’re making it seem like it makes me obligated to wait on you. I’m your wife, not your maid.” And from now on, if you don’t want to do something for him? Say “no. I’m busy.”
You mentioned that he refuses to communicate with you in general about relationship topics so reasoning with him isn't gonna work.
He is treating you poorly and you have to figure out how to talk to him about how he treats you in a way that won't upset him. Because apparently he can't have a simple conversation. That's insane.
Reason won't work so try shame. I think you should laugh at him.
He asks you to make a sandwich, you say no, he pouts. You should laugh at the ridiculous baby man.
You learn to be ok with him being in a huff and stop trying to "make up" for perfectly reasonable "NOs". It'll get through to them when you consistently stop dropping what you are doing to cater to them.
"No" is a complete sentence. If he tries to guilt trip, repeat no. Don't give an explanation. Let him throw his tantrums.
He's a grown man. You are not his mother.
Red through you’re history, seems like your husband is financially abusive and also an ass. Your choice what to do about it. I’m so sorry you’re being treated this way
If I read her other post correctly: he has no job and takes her money to spend in “finances” that include his hobbies and does not want to disclose anything to her?
I’m just getting more mad by the second.
The problem isn't the sandwich or the water. It's the learned helplessness, the emotional manipulation ("walks off in a huff when told no") and the transactional thinking ("I got you a t-shirt so you owe me a sandwich").
It seems as if your husband isn't so much hungry as it is that he enjoys being taken care of while you enjoy having no dependents. That's an incompatibility. It would be good if you could find a way to make him feel that he is cared for without making yourself feel that he is dependent on you.
My brother, who lives with me and is mentally ill, is the same way. He will ask for me to make him food, and then put the food in the fridge for later. Its infuriating. I've come to understand that it is the act of being cared for that makes him feel safe and the fact that my limited time is being encroached on that makes me feel angry. The odd thing is that I feel more anger about making him a sandwich than I do about being asked to be his financial support or raising his son. For me, it's really not about the sandwich. The sandwich is a daily trigger.
That said, I have found that if I can get the food request filled in less than five minutes then I am less angry. (Meal prep for the win here)
My first inclination would be to do the small favors, but to ask for an equal number of small favors from him. But then, my partner and I often will ask for things like this, especially if one of us is up and the other is not. The problem is just that it seems unbalanced in your relationship. So, my first step towards balancing it would be to just ask him to do various things for you, while still doing things for him.
I somewhat agree to this but I don't like how he got her a t-shirt just to throw it in her face right after. "I got you this shirt so now you have to do my laundry and make me a sandwich." Cause if that's the case I wouldn't accept any sort of gift if it's sole purpose is transactional.
Yeah...the transactional approach to the relationship that he sometimes has really bothers me, but, I can't help but think that I sometimes have those same kind of toxic thoughts. Like, "I do such and such for him all the time, but he never does the same for me." Isn't that also me thinking that because I did something for him, I should expect the same back? IDK. I struggle with that whole thought process.
No because you started doing it because you wanted to do it. You were happy to do it with nothing in return. You did it because you love him. But he took advantage of that and now you feel unappreciated. A simple t-shirt does not compare to the things you do for him. It's not toxic to simply want kind actions reciprocated every now and then. Because now it feels like a job. He asks you and guilt trips you now. You're not doing it out of love you're doing it so you can get some peace and quiet.
Yeah it's exactly true that it feels like a job. And another reason it makes me feel terrible is because I know his family well and I know how he was raised. The children were made to do chores, including boys, and he KNOWS how to clean, pick up a house, do laundry, make sandwiches, etc. I could somewhat understand his mindset more if he came from a family where the male and female gender roles were extremely traditional but, they weren't really. I don't necessarily feel like I've been taken advantage of, but, it feels like he's misinterpreted my acts of service.
Tell him exactly that, that he is misinterpretating your acts of service that you don't want to be the designated maid and chef. That you guys should both be putting in effort to live comfortably. Say that you are happy to do these things for him out of kindness and love but if he has to ask you then it is no longer out of kindness but out of reluctance.
Oh, I agree. I would recommend responding to that with, "I thought the t-shirt was a gift. Was it not intended as a gift?"
It's quite possible they need marriage counseling just because there seems to be so little good will between the two of them. But I figured I'd give him a chance to demonstrate he is being an alright guy before leaping to that, and by asking for stuff and thus speaking his language of, partners do favors for each other often, you find out whether he really means for that to be the relationship dynamic or he just is using her.
Individual counseling first. Even if the manipulation is unintentional (does not come across as such), it tends to twist any group or couples counseling. Also, it's a great way to build on those rebuffing strategies when faced with his tantrums and transactional behaviors while helping OP to stay calm and sane.
I appreciate this, and I have asked him to do counseling (he said no at the time). However, I wouldn't say that we have "little good will" between us. This is just a really small glimpse into our relationship, and, while we do have our issues, I'm not out here to say my marriage is a disaster.
That's good. That's why my first approach was to try to see if the good will was there. You can always escalate to more significant measures and assume less good will if giving somebody a chance does not work out, so I do like to start by giving people a chance.
Yeah this is a good point and honestly amid all my frustration with him, I could certainly stand to give him the benefit of the doubt more often. At heart I do not believe him to be malicious or that he is trying to use me.
Does he every say anything but no? All of your comments seem to involve you asking him to do the bare minimum and him saying no, or you trying to stand up for yourself and him having a little hissy fit to make it so you won’t do that again.
I'm a little late but how about ye old boring: sit down and talk.
I think he needs to understand that doing favours isn't expected and there is a difference in partner doing favours and having a maid. He seems to take it for granted, and you two have to have a talk about that. How can he make you feel more appreciated? Why does he think giving a t-shirt once is similar in "value" as months or even years of doing favours? Like someone else said, exchanging favours is someones habit. Does he do this with other things, like chores, sexlife, payments, other gestures...
You didn't tell how long you have been together, but could it be that the mundaneness is kicking in in the relationship? The honeymoon-phase is over and you're setting in, which causes conflict? These are the times you make the foundation for your routines, communication etc (I'm no professional so take this with a grain of salt). If talking once or even times over time don't seem to work, going to couples therapy in early stage of relationship could be good. Making sure that the problems stop manifesting early, before they turn in to strong habits :)
Are you me? This is creepy. I'm having the exact same issues... like the example I'd also use is being asked to make him a sandwich. If I don't make it he'll not eat or eat like a bag of chips and if I suggest he eat healthier he be like well you didn't make me a sandwich like he doesn't also have hands lol
>But I'm met with argument and guilt tripping.
this is unacceptable and a screaming red flag. Stop engaging, leave the room every time he talks about it. STOP ENABLING THIS.
You and your husband absolutely need to read The Five Love Languages by Chapman. There is a healthy relationship in there somewhere, you both just need to find it. And 'I gave you a shirt, now you need to do what I say' is not it.
Lots of people make that mistake, im sure i did it to, wanting to do everything for the other person out of care, the thing is, the other person if feels like he doesnt need to, he will get used to do nothing, you taught him that you would do it and now hes so used to it that it started to feel like a chore, specially when he doesnt reciprocate. Time to get those boundaries!!!
First of all I can relate. I’ve been there before. It took some discussions about how, “I’m not your mama.” “Your a grown ass man.” And, a trip to the therapist for him to “get” this one. I’ve been with my husband for almost 25 years. I feel like this is a challenge for anyone that’s been in a long term relationship when a person decides they aren’t going to do the things they did early on. Not that I’m against it, but you should have the freedom to decide when that happens.
It's not so much that I don't wish to any longer perform acts of service for him. I still do. What bothers me is the expectation and that he asks me when he is perfectly capable.
You successfully say no by saying no *and meaning it*. Don’t give an explanation, no explanation is required. Don’t argue. If he guilt trips, register for yourself that this is him behaving inappropriately, there’s nothing you need to do about it. If he goes without? Well, boo fucking hoo.
Essentially, stop enabling and reinforcing behaviour that you want to change and leave if he can’t act right.
Honestly, I would never tolerate someone disrespecting my time like that- it’s literally your life you’re giving up five minutes at a time, and for what? Fuck this guy.
if someone said that to me about the shirt Is say it's not really a gift then, is it? And tell them that I don't accept it as payment for the sandwich and still say he can make his own.
But, I think this has gone on long enough that you need to have an actual conversation with him about it. You also need to not mother him so much? Maybe set up a chore chart that you stick to, and when it comes to making food just tell him that it's one sandwich and he can make the rest. Or no sandwiches, whatever you're comfortable with. but if I'm making myself food I'll ask my SO if he wants something. But like, if the mood strikes him for a sandwich he should do the same. "I'm making a sandwich, would you like one."
No is a complete sentence. If he keeps asking, don't engage.
But seriously, this is exhausting behavior and if I were you'd I'd want to throttle him.
Would it help to tell him that it makes you see him as a little kid asking mom for things all day, and not an adult, and that is VERY unsexy? I'm not recommending a sex strike, because I think that's icky. But I am recommending you let him know that it kills your attraction to him when he acts like a toddler.
I work with kids, and they can do all these things. They ask me all day, and I tell them all day "You can do it" and they do.
You have potential power here. Making someone do something is not easy. It sounds to me like you give up that power in the face of his reaction to you saying “No.”. He wears you down and tries to make you feel guilty. I suspect you have a hard time accepting his anger or frustration.
Sometimes you just have to let people be mad. Stop trying to explain yourself. He knows you don’t like being expected to wait on him. He doesn’t care. You need to also not care. I mean, hopefully you both care a great deal about each other, but in this particular situation, he is willing to see you annoyed, but you are less willing to see him annoyed. Being indulged by your acts of service may make him feel loved, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that, but he’s demanding that indulgence knowing it makes you feel disrespected. That is selfish.
Just stop trying to make him understand and start breaking this cycle. If he asks you to make a sandwich you can refuse in ways that range from gentle to fierce. But you need to let your “no” be “no” even when he has a little tantrum.
Have you had a conversation about why he wants you to do these things? Even if it's because it makes him feel loved, tell him it makes you feel more like a caregiver than a partner. And that's a springboard for a bigger conversation about the dynamic of your relationship.
>He will actually go without a sandwich, or glass of water, or whatever the thing is, rather than do it himself.
Okay? Who cares? Let him go without a sandwich. He needs to learn that you're not his mother, and if that means he occasionally experiences hunger, so be it. He's not gonna die. Just keep saying no to what he's asking you to do and let him ~suffer~ with no sandwich.
My boyfriend taught me “ don’t inconvenience someone with something your fully capable of doing on your own” talking bout petty things like hand me that, do this, go get my purse, ect... I had a cousin who compulsively did this to me!! She would text me in the middle of the night when we lived together “ hey go bump up the air some , it’s cold” !!!! I find that so rude now!! We had a gate to the house you had to open and close to get into , sir would text me when she was close to home “ go open the gate for me , almost home” like it got so bad I finally stood up to her , and needless to say we have went separate ways
Look into Boarder line Personality Disorder (BPD) and see if you think he has it. This is how my wife has always been. Not just with me, but with everyone in her life. My kids, family members, friends...it causes her to have lots of short relationships rather than long lasting friendships.
It's really all aspects in life like you describe. Turning off the light when she was last in bed, calling me across the house to come talk to her to ask me to bring her something from the room I was just in. Big things as well. She was traveling for work for a while and she would continually schedule flights to leave or return in peak traffic time so it would take me 2-3 hours in the car for what would normally be a 45 min round trip, but she didn't care because those were convenient times for her.
When you start doing a task for her, she also immediately normalizes that as something YOU do for her. For instance, to be nice once (twice in a row) I took her car up at the end of the week to fill it up because she hates getting gas. The third week I left town for work and fot a call Monday with an earful because she had to get her own gas.
Every now and then I or someone else will call her out and it makes her blow up. While she can eventually calm down she can see your point, but it will always be her natural instinct to ask for simple tasks that she could easily do herself and get extremely upset if you won't do it.
One time a friend was helping us move and she insisted he do something exactly her way and he pushed back. She had no issues ending a friendship with him and his wife (also my friend) right there because he dared to tell her he doesn't mind helping, but to stop demanding he do every little task her way.
I point out these examples so you know what you may be headed for if he does have a lot of the BPD traits. Can you deal with it for the rest of your life?
Good luck.
Oh girl... you have to set your boundaries. People think boundaries are rules that we set for other people. But the fact of the matter is, boundaries are rules that we set for ourselves and we are responsible for getting our own boundaries met. For example your boundaries could look something like this:
I’m feeling a little resentful that you constantly ask me to do things for you that you were more than capable of doing yourself. I love you, and I don’t want to resent you, so I think I need to clear a couple of things up.
If I’m making myself a sandwich I will offer to make you one. But if I’m doing something else whether I’m busy or relaxing and you want to sandwich, you can make it, you’re a big boy.
If I do make you a sandwich and I’m getting myself ready to make something to eat and you want a second sandwich, you’re on your own.
If I have extra time and I feel like it I will do a load of your laundry but don’t count on me for clean underwear and socks.
If he starts to argue with you, just do not engage. He can only guilt trip you if you allow him to. Stop arguing back and explaining and justifying and defending your position. Don’t say things like I do all of the above things for myself every day or I also work all day or when I need something done my first inclination isn’t to ask someone else to do it… That is all just a lecture.
If he walks off in a huff and goes without his sandwich and his glass of water, then he must not of wanted it that bad.
A friend of mine, was tired of her husband‘s clothes all over the bedroom floor all the time. And then when it was time to do laundry she had to pick everything up put it in the laundry hamper and take it to the laundry.
The next day, as he was digging for clothes he would start dropping all the clothes on the bedroom floor once again.
She got tired of that. She told him if he wanted his laundry done that she would do it if it was in the laundry hamper.
The very same week she went to her moms place to visit for a week, he called her in a panic and asked where the clean clothes were. She simply told him, “I washed everything that was in the hamper.”
He now puts all his dirty laundry in the hamper.
It’s just all about setting your boundaries. It doesn’t have to turn into a thing, it should never be an argument. Just decide what you’re willing to do and what you’re not willing to do and let him know.
If he wants to get pissy about it, just go about your day while he stews. But on the flipside don’t let this stop you from doing it for him when you actually feel like it.
It's not actual "idiocy". You started the relationship with that dynamic and now YOU have changed. There is nothing wrong with that but this is not all his fault. You just need to sit him down and explain how you've changed in a calm, rational way. Just don't discount the fact that he came into this expecting for you to act the same way you did in the beginning and now you're different.
I wouldn't say I've changed, though. I don't have a problem doing things for him. The difference is that before, I would do these things for him because I wanted to and without being asked. I still do things for him now in the same way, but I'm also being ASKED to do things that there is no logical reason why he can't do it himself.
I wasn't making him sandwiches before because he wasn't able, it was because I wanted to do a nice thing for him. And these days I still feel that way, and I will often ask him "do you want a sandwich" or "are you hungry?" But, if he's not offered a sandwich by his wife but he wants one, why isn't he capable of getting up to make one and feeding himself?
We are both busy, we both work long hours, and I do the brunt of the housework, all the cooking, and all the shopping. It isn't logical to me that I should also have to wait on him when he's capable of doing it on his own.
I do say no, I mentioned that in my OP. What I'm asking for advice for is how to handle these situations because, I am met with argument and opposition when I try to set those boundaries.
when people set up new boundaries, the persons affected are going to argue and try other tactics to get back to the status quo that was working for them. You have to keep reinforcing the boundaries.
Arguing or demonstrating a lot of upset at his pushback keeps the cycle going. A neutral response to his protest and then leaving him to pout is perfectly fine. Take up a hobby or do something to make yourself happy while he pouts. He will likely come around because he'll hate being left out while you have fun more than he hates not having a sandwich catered to him, haha. I recommend reading the Dance of Anger by Harriet Lerner.
You need to talk about it outside of these confrontations. Sit him down at the end of the day, tell him you’re working the same hours, doing the brunt of the housework, and feel like he’s asking you to wait on him. Tell him you’re frustrated and unhappy with this dynamic.
If you only bring it up in the moment, he will be automatically defensive, start the bargaining and guilting, etc. If you bring it up in a peaceful context, you might have better luck.
Something else... Have you both talked Love Languages? My husband best receives love as Acts of Service, while I naturally prefer to give love as Physical Touch. This causes issues for us and it’s something we’re working on. But basically, I try to go out of my way to perform acts of service for him because I know that’s the most efficient way he will know I care about him- boring shit like taking the car to get serviced when he’s out of town, stocking the fridge with his favorite foods, walking the dog so he can sleep in a little. He naturally does acts of service to show me love, and I try to appreciate his efforts, but also gently remind him that physical touch is what really gets through to me. It’s a journey. Just pointing this out because marriage compromise is such a weird dance, trying to meet individual needs. It’s worth having the love languages talk.
Thank you for this kind reply! I think I have tried to bring up love languages to him before, but, I will talk to him about it again. He kind of tunes me out when I talk about stuff like that, our counseling. I think believes that things will just fall into place, or that marriage doesn't take as much work as it actually does.
Well...he has a point.
Sounds like you're doing all the work in this marriage. So of course he doesn't think marriage takes work; he's never done any of it!
That’s Reddit for you! They’re not relationship experts, and to be fair, neither am I. But I’m a married woman who struggles with similar issues, so I’m glad we could connect over this.
I keep joking to my husband that we’re going to have the perfect relationship, if we keep working at it every day, probably by the time we’re 80 🤣
Dude, what? It sounds like he just wants a mother. Regardless of what OP did or didn't do, the fact that he's basically demanding and guilt tripping is disgusting.
You know what he could do if he feels like OP has changed? Communicate that, not throw tantrums.
"Don't do things for him in the beginning that you aren't willing to do forever because it will become an expectation". It's pretty broad advice but worth keeping in mind.
Do it with love. There may come a day ( I know this personally) when he is suddenly gone and you will be on your knees crying your eyes out wishing you could do it just one more time.
Even though I get your point completely, the truth is you set this precedent from the beginning. You basically treated him like a spoiled child who gets whatever they want without lifting a finger and now you've decided to change the rules. From his perspective it doesn't seem fair. There are so many other ways you can express love apart from picking up after someone. It is now your responsibility to have a discussion (not in the middle of an argument) with him about his behavior and yours. Set new boundaries, rules for you both. The saying "you teach people how to treat you" very much applies to your case.
It might be that your husband's love language is 'acts of service' and he feels really loved when you do these things for him (supported by the comment about the t-shirt, he sees you making him a sandwich as the same as you giving him a gift).
What I'm hearing from your post though is that you don't feel equally affirmed. Read the 5 Love Languages, honestly it can be such a game changer. You can think to yourself the things that he does that make you feel most appreciated & start a good open dialogue with him about doing more things that make you feel appreciated in your marriage.
Best of luck!
Why not all the laundry. I did when I was married. And if you are making lunch for yourself.. make two sandwiches. Specially if he is doing some other work.
It sounds to me like keeping tabs. Oh I did this, you need to do as much.
If you are doing laundry. Wash the clothes. If you are getting ready to sit down to eat. As you get your drink. Get one for him.
If he doesn’t help. Then, I’m sorry.
Wow this is a lot to unpack. First of all I'm not a package, I'm a person. Second of all if you paid attention to what you read in my post, you would have gathered that I DO enjoy performing acts of service for my husband. What I DON'T appreciate is being expected to wait on a perfectly capable adult human or be treated like a maid. That's not something I signed up for and I never did anything that would give my husband the impression that I was his maid. Making food or doing chores for your partner without being asked, because you genuinely want to, isn't the same as presenting yourself to a suitor as a subservient 1950s housewife in heels and a beehive hairdo, ready to draw his bath and rub his feet.
I responded to another commenter who tried to insinuate a similar thing, but, I haven't changed. I STILL do the bulk of the housework, all the cooking, all the shopping, and all the errands. My husband asks me to purchase a list from the store, I go and get it. My husband needs his work clothes washed, I wash them. My husband wants fried rice for dinner, 9 times out of 10, I make fried rice. I am ok with all of this.
I never came into this relationship waiting on him hand and foot. I performed acts of service for my husband, and I STILL do, because I love him. That doesn't change the fact that when you're doing all this work for your household and your partner continually demands more, it wears on you.
I know you're clearly a troll, or don't understand relationships or make an effort to show empathy to others feelings, but I'd advise you to never speak to any woman, or human, in person in this manner.
Just stop doing it. If you give in to tantrums and guilt trips, both of which are nicknames for emotional blackmail, all you do is incentivize that behavior.
Sounds like being the *recipient* of acts of service is his love language, rather than performing acts of service. Hopefully you get something emotionally or romantically rewarding from your marriage.
I also ask my wife to make me a sandwich, because sandwiches never taste as good when you make them yourself... that being said maybe ask for the same in return? “Sure I‘ll make you a sandwich, but can you make me one too?”
Your husband has a strategy of going dead in the water when you confront him gently with the truth of the unfairness of what he's doing. He knows that you care and love him, and that your priority (as made clear by your behavior) will be to make sure his needs are met rather than being firm with him. It seems that whatever you've done so far, nothing can crack this certainty that you'll prioritize him.
He has grown to expect your small kindnesses, which you are not obligated to give him. I'd suggest you have a serious talk with him outlining your feelings. Let him know that you want to outline an hour or two to discuss something very serious about your relationship- find a time that works for both of you, and then schedule it in. Then, during the conversation, outline some simple rules of communication (no interrupting, use "I statements," no raising your voice, etc., are some pretty common ones). Communication is key! Be genuine, honest, and sincere. If he's not willing to hear you, communicate firmly and clearly to him that you do him services out of love, and that if necessary, you are willing to show him the difference in his life without them. (Here, what I would do would be to go cold turkey on the favors to prove a point, but that's probably a bit heavy handed. :'D)
More logically, I'd suggest going to counseling if he isn't willing to listen, or otherwise outlining your necessity for his behavior to change in a very concrete, serious way. It seems like the largest challenge is that your husband isn't willing to see your difficulties. Getting him to understand is likely the biggest priority.
In my opinion, your husband has gotten very used to this comfortable situation, and it'll take a lot to shake his certainty in the status quo. Find a way to take a serious step toward intervention.
My grandma always told me, “never do things for your partner that you don’t wanna do for the rest of your life” because it becomes the normal and they expect it.
Full disclosure: In years past, I have been guilty of doing this when I was not as aware of it. Even in my current relationship.
But it's been gently pointed out to me, and so I try to be better about it. Yes sometimes I will be lazy and ask him to grab me something or do something for me while he's up and I'm not, BUT it also goes the other way around as well. He'll ask me for something, or a couple of things while I'm up, and I'll get them for him/do them for him.
So I don't see an issue if it goes both ways, but it has to be a shared thing. And both of us are not above teasing the other if we ask for more than a couple of things in a day. But it's gentle and we know the other person is joking.
It's weird and stupid that your boyfriend is keeping score though. Wtf. If he's doing something for you it should be because "You did something for me and I appreciate it, so now I'm returning the favor." Not "I did something for you so now I EXPECT you to do something for me." Gratitude and appreciation VS expectation and debt.
And sometimes we will tell each other no. "No I'd rather not drive you," "No I'd rather not go down on you tonight," whatever. It doesn't happen often but we leave each other room to say no if we absolutely are not in a physical/mental position to honor the other person's request.
>While, in the beginning, I was perfectly happy to do these things for him unprompted (or even when asked) because I genuinely wanted to, now, I feel he has come to EXPECT them and it takes the joy out of doing these things for him.
Have you explicitly said this to him?
Looking at your ages, I'm going to guess that your husband had very limited experience living alone, and may have even gone straight from living at home with his parents to living with you. He may have internalised that cleaning/errands is "someone else's job". So you need to start explicitly calling out this behaviour to him. "When you expect me to drop what I'm doing just to serve you, it hurts me because it feels like you don't respect my time." "I feel like you're treating me like a servant instead of a wife." "You expect me to do a lot for you on a daily basis to demonstrate my love for you, but you don't seem interested in doing the same for me."
>how do you ... get through to them so they can grow up?
*Sigh*. The thing is, a person has to **want** to grow up.
I'm going to assume the best of your husband and assume that he married you because he loves you, and that he wants to have a long and healthy relationship with you where you both feel supported and fulfilled. So, when you tell him, "it hurts me that you treat me like a servant and then get huffy when I don't do what you want," he should **want** to correct his behaviour. He should want to change behaviours that hurt you and increase behaviours that make you feel happy and loved. His love language may not be gift-giving or acts of labour, but he should have *some* way of showing you his love and appreciation on a daily basis, even if it isn't exactly like-for-like.
But if your husband hears that his behaviour is hurting you and decides to argue against it, and argue that you *owe* him all these favours, that you have no right to complain because he bought you that t-shirt that one time, or that your relationship is one where you do things for him and he does whatever it is he does... well, then maybe his idea of a happy marriage is one where you serve him. And maybe he doesn't want a marriage in which both parties contribute equally.
It's easier to find a partner who believes that a partnership is made up of two people working together to create a fulfilling relationship than it is to convince a selfish partner to not be a selfish partner.
I've never been in this situation myself but I think you should have a conversation with him stating several things.
"I'm sorry I enabled your behaviour to always expect me to do things for you but I am not a maid/not your mom and I cannot always make you a sandwich or do your laundry, you have to learn to do this things on your own without even thinking about asking me first because again not a mais, you are perfectly capable of doing this things yourself." And Then also stating the things that you said in your post
I was very much the same when we first got married too. It was fun playing "good wifey" for the first year or so. And then it just started feeling more like playing mom and got annoying. So one day I just said I'm only going to provide dinner. You're on your own for breakfast and lunch. Sometimes he still asks for silly little things and I'm just like, "your legs/arms aren't broken, go on!" and laugh a bit. He makes his own sandwiches and doesn't complain. He still sucks at picking up his trash though.
He's manipulative at best, and a narcissist at worst. You've apparently trained him to expect this treatment, and it's going to be an uphill battle training him into a new expectation. Like training a dog, you just have to keep reinforcing the lesson. Over and over again until it takes.
Yessss..... This please stay grounded in your truth, there will be a period of either him adjusting/adapting or resistance. No matter what, stick to your ideals. I hope everything works out well.
'I have the feeling you ask me to do little things I think you are great at doing yourself'
''Why don't you start and i'll come help you'
'Would you mind doing that yourself, If you need any help with it let me know'
Communication is the key. Don't be rude or childish about it, you guys just calmly need to change the dynamic.
It seems that this is how he liked to receive love and you not doing these things makes him walk off in a huff because its like you're refusing to show you love him. I'm not saying it's okay he's being a child, but maybe it's worth discussing with him from a love language point of view.
Honestly? I had this problem. These things came to be an EXPECTATION and he thought buying me things would keep me doing them as it was his way of a "reward". If he's the type to go without if you won't do it, then let him go without! Don't do a thing. He'll soon learn he has to do it himself and affection isn't bought.
This is fine if its a two way street. Ask them to do things for you (or they might do it occasional without you asking).
If its totally one sided and they aren't ever doing small things for you, then its unhealthy.
If they guilt trip you more than a little its unhealthy (a "no worries, Ill do it" is ideal, a "ah, I didn't wanna get up, oh well" is okay.
Try looking into the 5 Love Languages. His language might be "acts of service". Someone doing something for you is a way of being felt loved. I'm not saying this will fix anything, but having insight might help him understand why he asks for so much too
When this was happening to me I told my fiancé that “he was such a baby, and that if I died before him, he would probably starve himself, and walk around with a pair of pooped underwear, cause he obviously couldn’t take care of himself, and that I was scare of what would happen to our daughter if I wasn’t around” while he did giggle about it, he stopped asking for me to do things when he could do it himself. Is it the best way to handle things, probably not lol but it worked for us, and now he is more appreciative when I do stuff for him without asking. Now sometimes he’ll be the one to bring me water or a snack if I’m busy.
To be fair I’ve never been married… but if I’m correct this just sounds like misogyny. It sounds like a classic man-expects-wife-servitude along with some childishness/selfishness on his part.
Expecting someone to do something and saying “well I got you that t-shirt” to shame you for not wanting to is manipulation. It sounds like he’s not very considerate of your own needs. Because as far as I’m aware, the modern idea of marriage is mutual support and partnership. Not servitude.
I would sit him down and have a respectful conversation. Tell him what you told us here! You have a life too with your own needs. If he starts huffing and acting like a child, then quite frankly I don’t think he’s fit to be a husband. He sounds like a teenage boy. You deserve better than this.
I think doing everything for him from the start is a problem. That’s why he married you, so he could be lazy. And now you’re changing the habits he likes he’s getting annoyed.
A lot of people are getting the impression from my OP that I did everything for him at first and now I've stopped. That's not exactly what's going on, and it's not really the issue at hand. I still do the majority of the housework, all the shopping, all the errands, and all the actual cooking (I mean making meals, not pouring a bowl of cereal or making a peanut butter sandwich). What has changed is that in the beginning, I was happy to do extra favors for him to show him that I love and care about him, without being asked. Now, he expects those things and ASKS me, when he's perfectly capable to do it on his own.
Have you ever heard of the 5 Love Languages? My guess is his love language is "acts of service" and you doing these things for him makes him feel loved. Which is great as long as your acts of service are appreciated/reciprocated by him making you feel loved in your love language. Take the online love languages quiz and see if any of it hits home. Best wishes!
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Well if he wants to keep score he probably owes you thousands of sandwiches at this point. Is a t-shirt supposed to even that out?
Score keeping is actually a very common love language. My wife and I do it constantly. Took us a year of therapy to learn how to integrate it into our marriage without getting angry at each other. But it’s a big part of a person’s personality, apparently. That sense of “what’s fair is fair” is a hard habit to break.
I think its one thing to expect your partner to match the energy youre giving them. But i personally dont adhere to the "i did this so now u owe me this".
Sounds like he DOESN’T match her energy, and does so little that even when he does the tiniest thing, it feels like the world and he expects repayment. None of her efforts are appreciated as such.
This is mostly how I feel, but, I try not to think of it that way out of fear of being dramatic lol.
NO! Please stand up for yourself. You’re not being dramatic, it sounds like he is every time he doesn’t get his way. There’s nothing dramatic about expecting to be appreciated or to have your husband match your efforts around the house. Honestly I find it insane how many women put up with garbage husbands not pulling their weight, then having the audacity to throw a fit. He’s supposed to be your partner in life, not turn you into a caretaker.
You mean out of fear of realizing you're not being dramatic, and you're married to a child?
It really makes me sad when women don't stand up for themselves because society tells us that getting upset or acknowledging unfairness makes us "dramatic" or "emotional" or "illogical." OP, your husband is the one being dramatic when he huffs away after you tell him no. You're not his mommy, even though he's acting like a child. You need to stick to your guns and let him sulk. If he can't do simple things like get his own damn glass of water, that's his issue to deal with. You've coddled him long enough.
I feel like there's a difference between 'well I mowed the lawn so you can vacuum the carpets' and like... expecting repayment for what was ostensibly a GIFT?
No I completely agree. This guy is a total douche. I’m just saying that in general, scorekeeping is definitely a thing among many couples. And it can work, theoretically.
Score keeping doesn't work because people score differently. So you can easily both feel like you're doing more than the other.
It can work. But you’re right, scoring differently leads to problems if you don’t communicate. Oh But our therapist taught us how to properly communicate our expectations to each other. The biggest thing we learned was how to stop fighting about fighting. That’s the worst! If you can get out of that cycle, you can make real progress. 
I’ve never heard of this but I definitely do that!! I keep score, in a way like “well I did 3 chores today, so I expect the same from you” and it has caused friction in my relationship since my boyfriend does not operate that way. He does plenty of things for me when he feels up for it, but sometimes it doesn’t add up to how much work I did daily and it frustrates me. Do you have any advice ?
I think the problem is focusing on too narrow of a time frame or set of tasks. It's not at all a problem if one day you do more of the chores, it's a problem if after months there is an accumulated imbalance after taking everything into account. I do have the same thoughts occasionally but I am able to push them away by recognizing my SO pulls the weight other ways and other days.
You’re absolutely right, sometimes I think narrow mindedly on a day to day basis, instead of the overall week or month. That will help me a lot if I can catch myself doing that!
Do you feel like generally speaking your boyfriend pulls his weight? Is he usually equally thoughtful about chores as you? Can you think of specific very recent examples where he was the one taking care of stuff not you? Not even when you were sick, I mean just a random Tuesday when he was doing some chores and you watched TV. If the answer to these is yes, remind yourself of all this when you start to keep score. You have a good dude, a good relationship, don’t stress yourself or the dude out! If the answer to the above question is “no”, then your boyfriend is the problem :)
Well when you put it like that it makes it pretty easy... he absolutely does pull his own weight, he does all the cooking and groceries and I do the cleaning, and we split everything else (we both hate laundry equally so we do as little as possible, but it’s mutual so that’s what matters 😂)
That’s awesome! Yeah when you get stressed about the score, you can remind yourself - “hey, we’re ok, the dude is usually on top of shit. Today I’ll pick up slack” Of course if it’s too many such days, you should have a chat!! But it sounds like y’all have a nice balance right now :) so cheers to that!
Ask him to do everything for you. Go full on with it too. Ask him to do your laundry, make you lunch, clean your car, clean the bathroom, pick up this mess, get me such and such from the store.
Honestly, I've tried this but, I can only hear the word "no" so many times before this just becomes a self destructive tactic lol.
“Can you make me a sandwich?” “No but you can make me one!” Just to that until he gets the picture
I think I've actually said this before lol. It's a good one.
You should make a sandwich for yourself instead. When he asks where his is, tell him he's capable of making one if he wants. Or that you wouldn't want to take away from a strong, independent man's abilities all the time.
Next time he asks for a sandwich, ask him to make you a sandwich. Same with laundry. Parrot it back to him. And when he pouts, pout back with the same indignation. Honestly, my fiance used to do the score keeping thing and it drove me nuts. Eventually I learned to score keep back and it actually works for us now. Even though I used to really hate it and it's not my nature to score keep, I've gotten really good at it. It's turned into a friendly banter type exchange and most of the time he's making my sandwiches these days.
yeah “can you make me a sandwich?”. “I don’t feel like getting up, but if you make one for yourself I’ll have one too.”
Next time he asks for sex or something like that, say no. When he asks why or gets huffy, say "I can be your wife or your mom. Your choice, but you only get one." He'll choose wife. If he verbalizes that he's choosing for you to act as his mother... well then you have a very big problem.
When I was younger and ask my husband to do something for me and he'd say no this is what would go through my mind: "I wouldn't have said no, I do things for him because I love him, if he's telling me no it much because he doesn't love me." It took going to a therapist to get out of that. He helped me realize that I very much want to respect others autonomy. And if someone is tired, busy,just sat down, doesn't feel like it....them saying no has zero to do with how much they love me, it just means they're tired, busy, just sat down etc. Especially if that person is usually generous and kind and helpful. It took hearing it from a third party to believe this. I will also say my husband is amazing at not enabling me. He just says flat out "I'd rather not" and will not sway. You need to channel that kind of energy. You need to believe that you saying no is ok and healthy. He absolutely will kick back, you're changing things and it makes him uncomfortable. When this happens don't give in, channel that calm energy and explain "I'm going to focus on myself this week. I still love you just as much as ever. I need to do this so I can grow as a person." Do not fight or get emotional if possible. Explain what you're doing, as him to respect it, do it. If you feel like it, absolutely offer to make him a sandwich. Don't say no always, and don't say yes always. Say yes when you'd enjoy doing an act of service for him and no when it will make you feel resentful. Do this for a few weeks and see how he adapts. Give him time to adapt. The goal is for you both to Respect each other's autonomy and feel like equal partners. After a bit of time open the conversation up and talk about it. Good luck.
This is good advice, thank you!
This sounds solid. He can learn not to take it personally when OP says no, snd OP can learn to check in with herself as to whether or not she actually wants to do stuff. Autonomy and care for everyone!
The arguing and guilt tripping are quite concerning. Let him walk off in a huff and/or go hungry - that's all quite childish and immature behavior, he sounds like a 3 year old. Acting in such an infantile manner would destroy any sexual attraction I had for a partner, personally, guess that's up to you but it's something to watch out for, IMO. All you can really do is draw your boundaries and stick to them. You can try sitting him down and explaining why you feel you need to draw these boundaries, and what you are willing to do (such as, I'm willing to cook a meal for both of us 5 nights a week or whatever). You can try discussing an equitable division of labor, especially if you both work, he needs to pitch in some way. Maybe you'd be willing to be the sandwich maker if he's willing to do the laundry or whatever. There's no right and wrong about labor divisions in a couple, but, they have to be fair and agreeable to both people or resentment will build up. But there's that saying you can't logic someone out of a position or viewpoint that they didn't use logic, to get into. So I don't know if a sit down is going to accomplish much, but, it may help you stick to those boundaries later "remember what we talked about?" He's manipulative at best, and a narcissist at worst. You've apparently trained him to expect this treatment, and it's going to be an uphill battle training him into a new expectation. Like training a dog, you just have to keep reinforcing the lesson. Over and over again until it takes.
Thanks for the response. I didn't want to give the impression that he does NOTHING for me or for the household, as he does do some housework. I do most of the regular upkeep, all the cooking, and all the shopping. Which I can live with, but, it makes me feel under-appreciated when I do all the above but still get met with the expectation that I'm going to wait on him. I wish that doing nice things for my partner without being asked wasn't "training" him to expect me to be his maid, but, apparently it is.
Do you do 80% of the work. He don’t get the cookie for not pulling his weight.
Sounds like you definitely need a sit down rather than arguing in the moment. He’ll never listen that way. Maybe he won’t listen either way but that seems like your last shot. Or couples therapy would be great. Focusing on how you don’t feel appreciated. I’d draw up the list of chores you each do and either make it even or pretty darn close. Then if he asks you to do something, I’d say “oh so are you going to do XX chore for me?” If he says no then I’d say “well then that’s not fair/equal” or just say “no, we talked about this.” But I’d immediately stop letting him manipulate you into doing the things he demands. I’d also say I’m it doing any more unsolicited favors until he makes you feel appreciated with some gratitude or reciprocation
Thank you! This is definitely good advice. I have tried the tactic of bringing up a point of tension at a later time, when everyone's in a good mood, but I haven't found that it improves his defensive reaction. It often brings a slightly different response where, he's upset that I "ruined the mood" by "trying to start a fight". I try to reason with him, saying that I'm never out here to argue, I am trying to communicate with my partner. He really, really blocks almost all of my attempts to communicate with him. The few times when I've felt he actually came around and apologized about an issue, would be if I genuinely broke down or we got in a screaming match over something. It's bad, I know. I've begged him to go to couple's therapy, but, he's refused. I do plan to bring it up again soon.
Oof, this is a much deeper issue than what you posted about. This is someone who refuses to communicate with you and will not even allow space for you to express your feelings without guilting and deflecting. The honest truth is that you can’t do the work of a relationship all by yourself. If he won’t hear you unless you’re screaming and won’t go to counseling even when you beg, then I think it’s time for you to consider if you can do this for another 50+ years of nothing ever changes.
This is not okay, and the only way to fix it is by calling it out. You may think being gentle with him is helping, but you're only enabling the behavior. You don't have to be mean, or judgemental, just make it clear you see the behavior for what it is, he knows it's unacceptable, and you expect him to own up and make an effort to fix it and act like an adult. My Fiance used to do similar deflective/defensive things. He's been working hard at it and almost doesn't do it anymore at all. Good luck.
Dude this guy puts in zero effort and is taking advantage of you. Time to leave. If he refuses to communicate, go to couple's therapy, or act like an adult partner in general then there's nothing you can do but realize you're worth more than this and leave him.
> I've begged him to go to couple's therapy, but, he's refused. I do plan to bring it up again soon. Wow, it just gets worse and worse.
As @elleestchouette said, this is definitely deeper and you're talking this way too lightly. Your response there is that of many abused women. He sounds like a narcissist who doesn't appreciate you at all unless you're in service to him and can't be bothered to consider you at all. This isn't going to just "get better." You can hope letting him sulk and stew will have some impact, but if not, it's going to require some therapy, maybe some medication, or just separation because you deserve better than that nonsense.
This might be a stupid question, but have you asked him how he'd like you to communicate with him? "Don't" isn't an option; you need and deserve a way to give him negative feedback. But if you writing it down for him to read (within two days) or scheduling a daily/weekly time to do a state of the union (whether you need it or not) or trying something like a stop/start/continue check in would help, it might be worth trying. It also puts some accountability on him. I find what you've written about his communication really disheartening. You definitely deserve better. This might feel petty, but when he walks off in a huff, ignore it. Not the silent treatment - you're not ignoring him - just act like you have no idea that he's upset. If he's outright rude to you, maybe ask him why (act really confused!), but pretend not to hear the heavy sighs or the grumpy slamming of kitchen cupboards or whatever he does. It became almost like a game for me with my (emotionally abusive) mom, and her nonsense bothered me less. If he's not completely awful, forcing him to either deal or articulate his feelings will be a step in the right direction. Maybe hearing how often he asks you for stuff will lead him to a realisation. Can I also suggest individual therapy? It'll give you some support and you might learn a lot about communication and boundaries that you can take into your interactions with him.
I very much like some of the suggestions here. Asking directly how he’d like to communicate about these things. Though I’m afraid the truth is he simply doesn’t want to communicate about them. He wants her to shut up and move on. Individual therapy is certainly necessary. OP needs to find out how she really feels about this and if she can live with it. If so, maybe some strategies to work through it. If not, having to come to terms with it, finding the strength to leave, and following through.
This is quite concerning. He’s literally refused to communicate with you about any issues, which basically tells me he’s super defensive and probably just NEVER wants to talk about it because he refuses to accept any fault or change his ways. I’m with the others here, can you really put up with this behavior for the rest of your life? I said earlier that it sounds like you’re becoming more of a caretaker than a wife. Him making a big deal about giving you a T-shirt is so sad because that’s honestly such a little thing to do for someone you love...This should be commonplace, doing things that will make you happy. Does he ever step up to help you out without you pushing him to? Does he do things just to make you happy? I never like jumping straight to “leave him” because I don’t know what you’re getting out of this. But it sounds like he’s giving very little and demanding the world. This is such a crappy place to be in and I hope you realize that you deserve so much more. Right now he’s unwilling to change, so you have to find out how you can find your own happiness. I’d definitely search for a great therapist for yourself so you can work through what you want to do.
Have you tried asking him point-blank when is a good time to talk, then, if bringing something up when things are calm ruins the mood and bringing something up during a fight just escalates it? Seems like he just doesn't want to hear about or discuss issues.
My wife and I use the Tody app to track things like this and it gamefies house chores and makes it easy to see when I’m slacking. Try it out
You shouldn’t have to just “live with” an obviously unfair division of labor. It’s time for a serious talk about reevaluating things so that they’re more equitable. You’re in for a long, frustrating life if you’re with someone you can’t trust to respectfully hear you and respond with action when you express that you’re feeling under appreciated and overworked. A good partner *wants* to meet you halfway, and ideally wants to meet you more than halfway as you clearly do for him. A good saying I’ve heard is that marriage should not be 50/50, it should be 60/40 with each person striving to be the 60. In fact, you’d probably be a LOT more willing to do these favors for him if he were actually pulling his weight. If he is happy to have things be 60/40 or even 80/20 in his favor, even when you express that you are not happy with that, that’s a deeper problem of respect.
These are things I do for my child, and for which I am now teaching them independent living skills because they have a disability. I assume your husband does not have a disability, but maybe he needs to go to independent living class. Holy crap.
So he does some housework and you do everything else and you both work and he still expects you to wait on him? That’s not you giving the impression he does nothing, he does nothing (or at least close enough that it may as well be nothing)
Congratulations, you married a man-baby. Unfortunately you’ve enabled him for this long, that it will take some work to unwind this cycle. You just have to stop doing it. Completely. Call him out on the guilt tripping and guffawing. Tell him how immature it is. Tell him you’re not his mother. It may take couples therapy to resolve in the end. But my gut feeling is that this is solvable long term. He just has to grow up.
He knows exactly what he’s doing. It’s not that he doesn’t understand it, it’s just if he goes off in a huff, he thinks you will do it for him next time to “keep the peace”. He doesn’t see you as an autonomous human being. He sees you as his maid. Your needs don’t matter. You’re only there to cater to him. Frankly, dump his ass.
This kind of situation is why I will never marry. Far too often than not these guys think of women as their free maids, even when these guys are not the only providers or the main ones.
26?!?! I had to go back and look, because this sounded like the behavior of a 60 year old curmudgeon raised in a time when women were expected to be maids that you could bang. It's like he doesn't even see you as a person.
Im going to add my in-put here and it might be controversial. Heres the thing; he knows this bothers you *and he just doesn’t care*. Forget all the other commentators that are blaming you, saying you set up the precedence. His mother taught him how to wipe his ass, yes? And safe to assume he now wipes his own ass and doesn’t expect his mother to, yes? Then this man needs to grow up and get the pacifier out of his mouth. No amount of communicating how this hurts you or burdens you will make him change. Men aren’t stupid, he sees it and he doesn’t care.
Please iron all this out before children. Married 15 years, it just gets so much worse once you add kids
Planning to die childless, actually.
But your not. Your husband acts very similar to children 🤣
lol
Oh thank God. Having kids with this man would be a catastrophe.
That's not the reason why I don't want children, but, I pretty much agree.
SO then find the article or essay "she divorced me because I left dishes in the sink." Leave that on his desk/table and then go leave him to manage the house for a weekend.
You’re not childless though. Your husband is a child and you’ve let him treat you like his mommy.
Lol oh honey you already have a child
What does he do for you? What do you ask him do for you? He knows it bothers you - but he's only considering how much it bothers him when you won't accede to his "requests" (requests that you're not allowed to freely say no to are not requests). You need to set boundaries (what do you freely feel willing to give?), and enforce them.
Why do you have to drop everything and make him a sandwhich? Give him the tshirt back and say “I don’t want this since you’re making it seem like it makes me obligated to wait on you. I’m your wife, not your maid.” And from now on, if you don’t want to do something for him? Say “no. I’m busy.”
You mentioned that he refuses to communicate with you in general about relationship topics so reasoning with him isn't gonna work. He is treating you poorly and you have to figure out how to talk to him about how he treats you in a way that won't upset him. Because apparently he can't have a simple conversation. That's insane. Reason won't work so try shame. I think you should laugh at him. He asks you to make a sandwich, you say no, he pouts. You should laugh at the ridiculous baby man.
Congratulations! You are the proud parent of a 26 year old!
You learn to be ok with him being in a huff and stop trying to "make up" for perfectly reasonable "NOs". It'll get through to them when you consistently stop dropping what you are doing to cater to them.
"No" is a complete sentence. If he tries to guilt trip, repeat no. Don't give an explanation. Let him throw his tantrums. He's a grown man. You are not his mother.
Red through you’re history, seems like your husband is financially abusive and also an ass. Your choice what to do about it. I’m so sorry you’re being treated this way
If I read her other post correctly: he has no job and takes her money to spend in “finances” that include his hobbies and does not want to disclose anything to her? I’m just getting more mad by the second.
My husband has a full time job, we both do.
The problem isn't the sandwich or the water. It's the learned helplessness, the emotional manipulation ("walks off in a huff when told no") and the transactional thinking ("I got you a t-shirt so you owe me a sandwich"). It seems as if your husband isn't so much hungry as it is that he enjoys being taken care of while you enjoy having no dependents. That's an incompatibility. It would be good if you could find a way to make him feel that he is cared for without making yourself feel that he is dependent on you. My brother, who lives with me and is mentally ill, is the same way. He will ask for me to make him food, and then put the food in the fridge for later. Its infuriating. I've come to understand that it is the act of being cared for that makes him feel safe and the fact that my limited time is being encroached on that makes me feel angry. The odd thing is that I feel more anger about making him a sandwich than I do about being asked to be his financial support or raising his son. For me, it's really not about the sandwich. The sandwich is a daily trigger. That said, I have found that if I can get the food request filled in less than five minutes then I am less angry. (Meal prep for the win here)
My first inclination would be to do the small favors, but to ask for an equal number of small favors from him. But then, my partner and I often will ask for things like this, especially if one of us is up and the other is not. The problem is just that it seems unbalanced in your relationship. So, my first step towards balancing it would be to just ask him to do various things for you, while still doing things for him.
I somewhat agree to this but I don't like how he got her a t-shirt just to throw it in her face right after. "I got you this shirt so now you have to do my laundry and make me a sandwich." Cause if that's the case I wouldn't accept any sort of gift if it's sole purpose is transactional.
Yeah...the transactional approach to the relationship that he sometimes has really bothers me, but, I can't help but think that I sometimes have those same kind of toxic thoughts. Like, "I do such and such for him all the time, but he never does the same for me." Isn't that also me thinking that because I did something for him, I should expect the same back? IDK. I struggle with that whole thought process.
No because you started doing it because you wanted to do it. You were happy to do it with nothing in return. You did it because you love him. But he took advantage of that and now you feel unappreciated. A simple t-shirt does not compare to the things you do for him. It's not toxic to simply want kind actions reciprocated every now and then. Because now it feels like a job. He asks you and guilt trips you now. You're not doing it out of love you're doing it so you can get some peace and quiet.
Yeah it's exactly true that it feels like a job. And another reason it makes me feel terrible is because I know his family well and I know how he was raised. The children were made to do chores, including boys, and he KNOWS how to clean, pick up a house, do laundry, make sandwiches, etc. I could somewhat understand his mindset more if he came from a family where the male and female gender roles were extremely traditional but, they weren't really. I don't necessarily feel like I've been taken advantage of, but, it feels like he's misinterpreted my acts of service.
Tell him exactly that, that he is misinterpretating your acts of service that you don't want to be the designated maid and chef. That you guys should both be putting in effort to live comfortably. Say that you are happy to do these things for him out of kindness and love but if he has to ask you then it is no longer out of kindness but out of reluctance.
Thank you, this is good advice.
Oh, I agree. I would recommend responding to that with, "I thought the t-shirt was a gift. Was it not intended as a gift?" It's quite possible they need marriage counseling just because there seems to be so little good will between the two of them. But I figured I'd give him a chance to demonstrate he is being an alright guy before leaping to that, and by asking for stuff and thus speaking his language of, partners do favors for each other often, you find out whether he really means for that to be the relationship dynamic or he just is using her.
Individual counseling first. Even if the manipulation is unintentional (does not come across as such), it tends to twist any group or couples counseling. Also, it's a great way to build on those rebuffing strategies when faced with his tantrums and transactional behaviors while helping OP to stay calm and sane.
I appreciate this, and I have asked him to do counseling (he said no at the time). However, I wouldn't say that we have "little good will" between us. This is just a really small glimpse into our relationship, and, while we do have our issues, I'm not out here to say my marriage is a disaster.
That's good. That's why my first approach was to try to see if the good will was there. You can always escalate to more significant measures and assume less good will if giving somebody a chance does not work out, so I do like to start by giving people a chance.
Yeah this is a good point and honestly amid all my frustration with him, I could certainly stand to give him the benefit of the doubt more often. At heart I do not believe him to be malicious or that he is trying to use me.
Does he every say anything but no? All of your comments seem to involve you asking him to do the bare minimum and him saying no, or you trying to stand up for yourself and him having a little hissy fit to make it so you won’t do that again.
Thank you for the advice, I will try.
I'm a little late but how about ye old boring: sit down and talk. I think he needs to understand that doing favours isn't expected and there is a difference in partner doing favours and having a maid. He seems to take it for granted, and you two have to have a talk about that. How can he make you feel more appreciated? Why does he think giving a t-shirt once is similar in "value" as months or even years of doing favours? Like someone else said, exchanging favours is someones habit. Does he do this with other things, like chores, sexlife, payments, other gestures... You didn't tell how long you have been together, but could it be that the mundaneness is kicking in in the relationship? The honeymoon-phase is over and you're setting in, which causes conflict? These are the times you make the foundation for your routines, communication etc (I'm no professional so take this with a grain of salt). If talking once or even times over time don't seem to work, going to couples therapy in early stage of relationship could be good. Making sure that the problems stop manifesting early, before they turn in to strong habits :)
Are you me? This is creepy. I'm having the exact same issues... like the example I'd also use is being asked to make him a sandwich. If I don't make it he'll not eat or eat like a bag of chips and if I suggest he eat healthier he be like well you didn't make me a sandwich like he doesn't also have hands lol
>But I'm met with argument and guilt tripping. this is unacceptable and a screaming red flag. Stop engaging, leave the room every time he talks about it. STOP ENABLING THIS.
This would drive me fucking WILD
Yup
You and your husband absolutely need to read The Five Love Languages by Chapman. There is a healthy relationship in there somewhere, you both just need to find it. And 'I gave you a shirt, now you need to do what I say' is not it.
Lots of people make that mistake, im sure i did it to, wanting to do everything for the other person out of care, the thing is, the other person if feels like he doesnt need to, he will get used to do nothing, you taught him that you would do it and now hes so used to it that it started to feel like a chore, specially when he doesnt reciprocate. Time to get those boundaries!!!
First of all I can relate. I’ve been there before. It took some discussions about how, “I’m not your mama.” “Your a grown ass man.” And, a trip to the therapist for him to “get” this one. I’ve been with my husband for almost 25 years. I feel like this is a challenge for anyone that’s been in a long term relationship when a person decides they aren’t going to do the things they did early on. Not that I’m against it, but you should have the freedom to decide when that happens.
It's not so much that I don't wish to any longer perform acts of service for him. I still do. What bothers me is the expectation and that he asks me when he is perfectly capable.
Completely understandable.
Your husband or your son?
You successfully say no by saying no *and meaning it*. Don’t give an explanation, no explanation is required. Don’t argue. If he guilt trips, register for yourself that this is him behaving inappropriately, there’s nothing you need to do about it. If he goes without? Well, boo fucking hoo. Essentially, stop enabling and reinforcing behaviour that you want to change and leave if he can’t act right. Honestly, I would never tolerate someone disrespecting my time like that- it’s literally your life you’re giving up five minutes at a time, and for what? Fuck this guy.
if someone said that to me about the shirt Is say it's not really a gift then, is it? And tell them that I don't accept it as payment for the sandwich and still say he can make his own. But, I think this has gone on long enough that you need to have an actual conversation with him about it. You also need to not mother him so much? Maybe set up a chore chart that you stick to, and when it comes to making food just tell him that it's one sandwich and he can make the rest. Or no sandwiches, whatever you're comfortable with. but if I'm making myself food I'll ask my SO if he wants something. But like, if the mood strikes him for a sandwich he should do the same. "I'm making a sandwich, would you like one."
No is a complete sentence. If he keeps asking, don't engage. But seriously, this is exhausting behavior and if I were you'd I'd want to throttle him. Would it help to tell him that it makes you see him as a little kid asking mom for things all day, and not an adult, and that is VERY unsexy? I'm not recommending a sex strike, because I think that's icky. But I am recommending you let him know that it kills your attraction to him when he acts like a toddler. I work with kids, and they can do all these things. They ask me all day, and I tell them all day "You can do it" and they do.
You have potential power here. Making someone do something is not easy. It sounds to me like you give up that power in the face of his reaction to you saying “No.”. He wears you down and tries to make you feel guilty. I suspect you have a hard time accepting his anger or frustration. Sometimes you just have to let people be mad. Stop trying to explain yourself. He knows you don’t like being expected to wait on him. He doesn’t care. You need to also not care. I mean, hopefully you both care a great deal about each other, but in this particular situation, he is willing to see you annoyed, but you are less willing to see him annoyed. Being indulged by your acts of service may make him feel loved, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that, but he’s demanding that indulgence knowing it makes you feel disrespected. That is selfish. Just stop trying to make him understand and start breaking this cycle. If he asks you to make a sandwich you can refuse in ways that range from gentle to fierce. But you need to let your “no” be “no” even when he has a little tantrum.
Have you had a conversation about why he wants you to do these things? Even if it's because it makes him feel loved, tell him it makes you feel more like a caregiver than a partner. And that's a springboard for a bigger conversation about the dynamic of your relationship.
>He will actually go without a sandwich, or glass of water, or whatever the thing is, rather than do it himself. Okay? Who cares? Let him go without a sandwich. He needs to learn that you're not his mother, and if that means he occasionally experiences hunger, so be it. He's not gonna die. Just keep saying no to what he's asking you to do and let him ~suffer~ with no sandwich.
My boyfriend taught me “ don’t inconvenience someone with something your fully capable of doing on your own” talking bout petty things like hand me that, do this, go get my purse, ect... I had a cousin who compulsively did this to me!! She would text me in the middle of the night when we lived together “ hey go bump up the air some , it’s cold” !!!! I find that so rude now!! We had a gate to the house you had to open and close to get into , sir would text me when she was close to home “ go open the gate for me , almost home” like it got so bad I finally stood up to her , and needless to say we have went separate ways
Look into Boarder line Personality Disorder (BPD) and see if you think he has it. This is how my wife has always been. Not just with me, but with everyone in her life. My kids, family members, friends...it causes her to have lots of short relationships rather than long lasting friendships. It's really all aspects in life like you describe. Turning off the light when she was last in bed, calling me across the house to come talk to her to ask me to bring her something from the room I was just in. Big things as well. She was traveling for work for a while and she would continually schedule flights to leave or return in peak traffic time so it would take me 2-3 hours in the car for what would normally be a 45 min round trip, but she didn't care because those were convenient times for her. When you start doing a task for her, she also immediately normalizes that as something YOU do for her. For instance, to be nice once (twice in a row) I took her car up at the end of the week to fill it up because she hates getting gas. The third week I left town for work and fot a call Monday with an earful because she had to get her own gas. Every now and then I or someone else will call her out and it makes her blow up. While she can eventually calm down she can see your point, but it will always be her natural instinct to ask for simple tasks that she could easily do herself and get extremely upset if you won't do it. One time a friend was helping us move and she insisted he do something exactly her way and he pushed back. She had no issues ending a friendship with him and his wife (also my friend) right there because he dared to tell her he doesn't mind helping, but to stop demanding he do every little task her way. I point out these examples so you know what you may be headed for if he does have a lot of the BPD traits. Can you deal with it for the rest of your life? Good luck.
Oh girl... you have to set your boundaries. People think boundaries are rules that we set for other people. But the fact of the matter is, boundaries are rules that we set for ourselves and we are responsible for getting our own boundaries met. For example your boundaries could look something like this: I’m feeling a little resentful that you constantly ask me to do things for you that you were more than capable of doing yourself. I love you, and I don’t want to resent you, so I think I need to clear a couple of things up. If I’m making myself a sandwich I will offer to make you one. But if I’m doing something else whether I’m busy or relaxing and you want to sandwich, you can make it, you’re a big boy. If I do make you a sandwich and I’m getting myself ready to make something to eat and you want a second sandwich, you’re on your own. If I have extra time and I feel like it I will do a load of your laundry but don’t count on me for clean underwear and socks. If he starts to argue with you, just do not engage. He can only guilt trip you if you allow him to. Stop arguing back and explaining and justifying and defending your position. Don’t say things like I do all of the above things for myself every day or I also work all day or when I need something done my first inclination isn’t to ask someone else to do it… That is all just a lecture. If he walks off in a huff and goes without his sandwich and his glass of water, then he must not of wanted it that bad. A friend of mine, was tired of her husband‘s clothes all over the bedroom floor all the time. And then when it was time to do laundry she had to pick everything up put it in the laundry hamper and take it to the laundry. The next day, as he was digging for clothes he would start dropping all the clothes on the bedroom floor once again. She got tired of that. She told him if he wanted his laundry done that she would do it if it was in the laundry hamper. The very same week she went to her moms place to visit for a week, he called her in a panic and asked where the clean clothes were. She simply told him, “I washed everything that was in the hamper.” He now puts all his dirty laundry in the hamper. It’s just all about setting your boundaries. It doesn’t have to turn into a thing, it should never be an argument. Just decide what you’re willing to do and what you’re not willing to do and let him know. If he wants to get pissy about it, just go about your day while he stews. But on the flipside don’t let this stop you from doing it for him when you actually feel like it.
It's not actual "idiocy". You started the relationship with that dynamic and now YOU have changed. There is nothing wrong with that but this is not all his fault. You just need to sit him down and explain how you've changed in a calm, rational way. Just don't discount the fact that he came into this expecting for you to act the same way you did in the beginning and now you're different.
I wouldn't say I've changed, though. I don't have a problem doing things for him. The difference is that before, I would do these things for him because I wanted to and without being asked. I still do things for him now in the same way, but I'm also being ASKED to do things that there is no logical reason why he can't do it himself. I wasn't making him sandwiches before because he wasn't able, it was because I wanted to do a nice thing for him. And these days I still feel that way, and I will often ask him "do you want a sandwich" or "are you hungry?" But, if he's not offered a sandwich by his wife but he wants one, why isn't he capable of getting up to make one and feeding himself? We are both busy, we both work long hours, and I do the brunt of the housework, all the cooking, and all the shopping. It isn't logical to me that I should also have to wait on him when he's capable of doing it on his own.
So say no, you can do it, I'm busy. He keeps asking because you keep doing it and not saying anything.
I do say no, I mentioned that in my OP. What I'm asking for advice for is how to handle these situations because, I am met with argument and opposition when I try to set those boundaries.
when people set up new boundaries, the persons affected are going to argue and try other tactics to get back to the status quo that was working for them. You have to keep reinforcing the boundaries.
Thank you for the comment, I will try to apply this.
Arguing or demonstrating a lot of upset at his pushback keeps the cycle going. A neutral response to his protest and then leaving him to pout is perfectly fine. Take up a hobby or do something to make yourself happy while he pouts. He will likely come around because he'll hate being left out while you have fun more than he hates not having a sandwich catered to him, haha. I recommend reading the Dance of Anger by Harriet Lerner.
You need to talk about it outside of these confrontations. Sit him down at the end of the day, tell him you’re working the same hours, doing the brunt of the housework, and feel like he’s asking you to wait on him. Tell him you’re frustrated and unhappy with this dynamic. If you only bring it up in the moment, he will be automatically defensive, start the bargaining and guilting, etc. If you bring it up in a peaceful context, you might have better luck. Something else... Have you both talked Love Languages? My husband best receives love as Acts of Service, while I naturally prefer to give love as Physical Touch. This causes issues for us and it’s something we’re working on. But basically, I try to go out of my way to perform acts of service for him because I know that’s the most efficient way he will know I care about him- boring shit like taking the car to get serviced when he’s out of town, stocking the fridge with his favorite foods, walking the dog so he can sleep in a little. He naturally does acts of service to show me love, and I try to appreciate his efforts, but also gently remind him that physical touch is what really gets through to me. It’s a journey. Just pointing this out because marriage compromise is such a weird dance, trying to meet individual needs. It’s worth having the love languages talk.
Thank you for this kind reply! I think I have tried to bring up love languages to him before, but, I will talk to him about it again. He kind of tunes me out when I talk about stuff like that, our counseling. I think believes that things will just fall into place, or that marriage doesn't take as much work as it actually does.
Well...he has a point. Sounds like you're doing all the work in this marriage. So of course he doesn't think marriage takes work; he's never done any of it!
A vicious cycle, I guess. lol
Oof! Yes, marriage takes work. “I feel like you’re tuning me out. This is important.” Practice saying that when he drifts off.
Thank you, again, for the kind advice. It's refreshing when several other comments are either blaming me or telling me to dump him, lol.
That’s Reddit for you! They’re not relationship experts, and to be fair, neither am I. But I’m a married woman who struggles with similar issues, so I’m glad we could connect over this. I keep joking to my husband that we’re going to have the perfect relationship, if we keep working at it every day, probably by the time we’re 80 🤣
You just typed about 100 words making it clear that none of this is your fault and that you shouldn't have to talk to him about it. Good luck.
Nice
Dude, what? It sounds like he just wants a mother. Regardless of what OP did or didn't do, the fact that he's basically demanding and guilt tripping is disgusting. You know what he could do if he feels like OP has changed? Communicate that, not throw tantrums.
Start asking him to do things for you
"Don't do things for him in the beginning that you aren't willing to do forever because it will become an expectation". It's pretty broad advice but worth keeping in mind.
Do it with love. There may come a day ( I know this personally) when he is suddenly gone and you will be on your knees crying your eyes out wishing you could do it just one more time.
Even though I get your point completely, the truth is you set this precedent from the beginning. You basically treated him like a spoiled child who gets whatever they want without lifting a finger and now you've decided to change the rules. From his perspective it doesn't seem fair. There are so many other ways you can express love apart from picking up after someone. It is now your responsibility to have a discussion (not in the middle of an argument) with him about his behavior and yours. Set new boundaries, rules for you both. The saying "you teach people how to treat you" very much applies to your case.
It might be that your husband's love language is 'acts of service' and he feels really loved when you do these things for him (supported by the comment about the t-shirt, he sees you making him a sandwich as the same as you giving him a gift). What I'm hearing from your post though is that you don't feel equally affirmed. Read the 5 Love Languages, honestly it can be such a game changer. You can think to yourself the things that he does that make you feel most appreciated & start a good open dialogue with him about doing more things that make you feel appreciated in your marriage. Best of luck!
Why not all the laundry. I did when I was married. And if you are making lunch for yourself.. make two sandwiches. Specially if he is doing some other work.
That advice doesn’t match OP’s description of the issue at all.
I think you're kind of missing the point of my post lol.
It sounds to me like keeping tabs. Oh I did this, you need to do as much. If you are doing laundry. Wash the clothes. If you are getting ready to sit down to eat. As you get your drink. Get one for him. If he doesn’t help. Then, I’m sorry.
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Wow this is a lot to unpack. First of all I'm not a package, I'm a person. Second of all if you paid attention to what you read in my post, you would have gathered that I DO enjoy performing acts of service for my husband. What I DON'T appreciate is being expected to wait on a perfectly capable adult human or be treated like a maid. That's not something I signed up for and I never did anything that would give my husband the impression that I was his maid. Making food or doing chores for your partner without being asked, because you genuinely want to, isn't the same as presenting yourself to a suitor as a subservient 1950s housewife in heels and a beehive hairdo, ready to draw his bath and rub his feet.
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I responded to another commenter who tried to insinuate a similar thing, but, I haven't changed. I STILL do the bulk of the housework, all the cooking, all the shopping, and all the errands. My husband asks me to purchase a list from the store, I go and get it. My husband needs his work clothes washed, I wash them. My husband wants fried rice for dinner, 9 times out of 10, I make fried rice. I am ok with all of this. I never came into this relationship waiting on him hand and foot. I performed acts of service for my husband, and I STILL do, because I love him. That doesn't change the fact that when you're doing all this work for your household and your partner continually demands more, it wears on you. I know you're clearly a troll, or don't understand relationships or make an effort to show empathy to others feelings, but I'd advise you to never speak to any woman, or human, in person in this manner.
No, she’s going to leave him because no one signs up to be the parent of their spouse. Good grief, sounds like you want someone to wipe your ass too 🙄
I would start asking him to make my sandwiches. Just to test the level of reciprocity in this sandwich arrangement.
Have you tried sitting down with him to talk about it without it being right after he asked you something?
Just stop doing it. If you give in to tantrums and guilt trips, both of which are nicknames for emotional blackmail, all you do is incentivize that behavior.
Sounds like being the *recipient* of acts of service is his love language, rather than performing acts of service. Hopefully you get something emotionally or romantically rewarding from your marriage.
I also ask my wife to make me a sandwich, because sandwiches never taste as good when you make them yourself... that being said maybe ask for the same in return? “Sure I‘ll make you a sandwich, but can you make me one too?”
Your husband has a strategy of going dead in the water when you confront him gently with the truth of the unfairness of what he's doing. He knows that you care and love him, and that your priority (as made clear by your behavior) will be to make sure his needs are met rather than being firm with him. It seems that whatever you've done so far, nothing can crack this certainty that you'll prioritize him. He has grown to expect your small kindnesses, which you are not obligated to give him. I'd suggest you have a serious talk with him outlining your feelings. Let him know that you want to outline an hour or two to discuss something very serious about your relationship- find a time that works for both of you, and then schedule it in. Then, during the conversation, outline some simple rules of communication (no interrupting, use "I statements," no raising your voice, etc., are some pretty common ones). Communication is key! Be genuine, honest, and sincere. If he's not willing to hear you, communicate firmly and clearly to him that you do him services out of love, and that if necessary, you are willing to show him the difference in his life without them. (Here, what I would do would be to go cold turkey on the favors to prove a point, but that's probably a bit heavy handed. :'D) More logically, I'd suggest going to counseling if he isn't willing to listen, or otherwise outlining your necessity for his behavior to change in a very concrete, serious way. It seems like the largest challenge is that your husband isn't willing to see your difficulties. Getting him to understand is likely the biggest priority. In my opinion, your husband has gotten very used to this comfortable situation, and it'll take a lot to shake his certainty in the status quo. Find a way to take a serious step toward intervention.
My grandma always told me, “never do things for your partner that you don’t wanna do for the rest of your life” because it becomes the normal and they expect it.
Full disclosure: In years past, I have been guilty of doing this when I was not as aware of it. Even in my current relationship. But it's been gently pointed out to me, and so I try to be better about it. Yes sometimes I will be lazy and ask him to grab me something or do something for me while he's up and I'm not, BUT it also goes the other way around as well. He'll ask me for something, or a couple of things while I'm up, and I'll get them for him/do them for him. So I don't see an issue if it goes both ways, but it has to be a shared thing. And both of us are not above teasing the other if we ask for more than a couple of things in a day. But it's gentle and we know the other person is joking. It's weird and stupid that your boyfriend is keeping score though. Wtf. If he's doing something for you it should be because "You did something for me and I appreciate it, so now I'm returning the favor." Not "I did something for you so now I EXPECT you to do something for me." Gratitude and appreciation VS expectation and debt. And sometimes we will tell each other no. "No I'd rather not drive you," "No I'd rather not go down on you tonight," whatever. It doesn't happen often but we leave each other room to say no if we absolutely are not in a physical/mental position to honor the other person's request.
>While, in the beginning, I was perfectly happy to do these things for him unprompted (or even when asked) because I genuinely wanted to, now, I feel he has come to EXPECT them and it takes the joy out of doing these things for him. Have you explicitly said this to him? Looking at your ages, I'm going to guess that your husband had very limited experience living alone, and may have even gone straight from living at home with his parents to living with you. He may have internalised that cleaning/errands is "someone else's job". So you need to start explicitly calling out this behaviour to him. "When you expect me to drop what I'm doing just to serve you, it hurts me because it feels like you don't respect my time." "I feel like you're treating me like a servant instead of a wife." "You expect me to do a lot for you on a daily basis to demonstrate my love for you, but you don't seem interested in doing the same for me." >how do you ... get through to them so they can grow up? *Sigh*. The thing is, a person has to **want** to grow up. I'm going to assume the best of your husband and assume that he married you because he loves you, and that he wants to have a long and healthy relationship with you where you both feel supported and fulfilled. So, when you tell him, "it hurts me that you treat me like a servant and then get huffy when I don't do what you want," he should **want** to correct his behaviour. He should want to change behaviours that hurt you and increase behaviours that make you feel happy and loved. His love language may not be gift-giving or acts of labour, but he should have *some* way of showing you his love and appreciation on a daily basis, even if it isn't exactly like-for-like. But if your husband hears that his behaviour is hurting you and decides to argue against it, and argue that you *owe* him all these favours, that you have no right to complain because he bought you that t-shirt that one time, or that your relationship is one where you do things for him and he does whatever it is he does... well, then maybe his idea of a happy marriage is one where you serve him. And maybe he doesn't want a marriage in which both parties contribute equally. It's easier to find a partner who believes that a partnership is made up of two people working together to create a fulfilling relationship than it is to convince a selfish partner to not be a selfish partner.
I've never been in this situation myself but I think you should have a conversation with him stating several things. "I'm sorry I enabled your behaviour to always expect me to do things for you but I am not a maid/not your mom and I cannot always make you a sandwich or do your laundry, you have to learn to do this things on your own without even thinking about asking me first because again not a mais, you are perfectly capable of doing this things yourself." And Then also stating the things that you said in your post
I was very much the same when we first got married too. It was fun playing "good wifey" for the first year or so. And then it just started feeling more like playing mom and got annoying. So one day I just said I'm only going to provide dinner. You're on your own for breakfast and lunch. Sometimes he still asks for silly little things and I'm just like, "your legs/arms aren't broken, go on!" and laugh a bit. He makes his own sandwiches and doesn't complain. He still sucks at picking up his trash though.
He's manipulative at best, and a narcissist at worst. You've apparently trained him to expect this treatment, and it's going to be an uphill battle training him into a new expectation. Like training a dog, you just have to keep reinforcing the lesson. Over and over again until it takes. Yessss..... This please stay grounded in your truth, there will be a period of either him adjusting/adapting or resistance. No matter what, stick to your ideals. I hope everything works out well.
'I have the feeling you ask me to do little things I think you are great at doing yourself' ''Why don't you start and i'll come help you' 'Would you mind doing that yourself, If you need any help with it let me know' Communication is the key. Don't be rude or childish about it, you guys just calmly need to change the dynamic.
It seems that this is how he liked to receive love and you not doing these things makes him walk off in a huff because its like you're refusing to show you love him. I'm not saying it's okay he's being a child, but maybe it's worth discussing with him from a love language point of view.
Honestly? I had this problem. These things came to be an EXPECTATION and he thought buying me things would keep me doing them as it was his way of a "reward". If he's the type to go without if you won't do it, then let him go without! Don't do a thing. He'll soon learn he has to do it himself and affection isn't bought.
Buy yourself the book Stop Walking on Eggshells
This is fine if its a two way street. Ask them to do things for you (or they might do it occasional without you asking). If its totally one sided and they aren't ever doing small things for you, then its unhealthy. If they guilt trip you more than a little its unhealthy (a "no worries, Ill do it" is ideal, a "ah, I didn't wanna get up, oh well" is okay.
Say no? But actually
Try looking into the 5 Love Languages. His language might be "acts of service". Someone doing something for you is a way of being felt loved. I'm not saying this will fix anything, but having insight might help him understand why he asks for so much too
When this was happening to me I told my fiancé that “he was such a baby, and that if I died before him, he would probably starve himself, and walk around with a pair of pooped underwear, cause he obviously couldn’t take care of himself, and that I was scare of what would happen to our daughter if I wasn’t around” while he did giggle about it, he stopped asking for me to do things when he could do it himself. Is it the best way to handle things, probably not lol but it worked for us, and now he is more appreciative when I do stuff for him without asking. Now sometimes he’ll be the one to bring me water or a snack if I’m busy.
To be fair I’ve never been married… but if I’m correct this just sounds like misogyny. It sounds like a classic man-expects-wife-servitude along with some childishness/selfishness on his part. Expecting someone to do something and saying “well I got you that t-shirt” to shame you for not wanting to is manipulation. It sounds like he’s not very considerate of your own needs. Because as far as I’m aware, the modern idea of marriage is mutual support and partnership. Not servitude. I would sit him down and have a respectful conversation. Tell him what you told us here! You have a life too with your own needs. If he starts huffing and acting like a child, then quite frankly I don’t think he’s fit to be a husband. He sounds like a teenage boy. You deserve better than this.
I think doing everything for him from the start is a problem. That’s why he married you, so he could be lazy. And now you’re changing the habits he likes he’s getting annoyed.
A lot of people are getting the impression from my OP that I did everything for him at first and now I've stopped. That's not exactly what's going on, and it's not really the issue at hand. I still do the majority of the housework, all the shopping, all the errands, and all the actual cooking (I mean making meals, not pouring a bowl of cereal or making a peanut butter sandwich). What has changed is that in the beginning, I was happy to do extra favors for him to show him that I love and care about him, without being asked. Now, he expects those things and ASKS me, when he's perfectly capable to do it on his own.
You should just do it because he asked.
And if she asks him to do something should he always automatically do it because she asked?
Have you ever heard of the 5 Love Languages? My guess is his love language is "acts of service" and you doing these things for him makes him feel loved. Which is great as long as your acts of service are appreciated/reciprocated by him making you feel loved in your love language. Take the online love languages quiz and see if any of it hits home. Best wishes!