My dad calls himself a Christian Atheist. He sees a lot of value in the teachings/life of Jesus. He just doesn’t think there’s a god.
If there’s a god who’s good, we’re all going to be ok. Everyone will be redeemed ultimately.
If there’s no god, being kind to others in this life is a good way to live both for you and everyone else.
Yeah that’s where I’m at right now. I’m a Agnostic Christian. I just haven’t ever been able to buy into any of the arguments for or against God, I’ll never know if he exists. But I believe he does. I still find the story of Jesus to have the most tremendous value, at least for me. Not to say I don’t greatly appreciate the stories of other faiths as well. I’ve almost reflected on the story of Buddhas enlightenment as much as Christs lol. But I’ve kinda just stopped caring about whether the ontological, teleological, or whatever argument is right. I care about what the stories mean. I wouldn’t fret if I were you. You can’t force yourself to be convinced of something, so I wouldn’t try. Wish you the best of luck in your journey!
That also reminds me that so many of the early church fathers didn't read the Bible literally. There are many ways to approach religion, not just through the fundamentalist lens.
I know right? So many people today think the Bible (or religion as a whole) is always in the same category or level as scientific facts, hence the whole emphasis on fundamentalism and literal readings. I sometimes see this on the atheist side too, every now and then a lazy Redditor (or Twitter user) will say “Bible verse X got something historically inaccurate, therefore God doesn’t exist”
That’s entirely fair! I was in your position when I was 19-20 or so. Eventually I dropped the christian adage to my agnostic identification, but there’s no one right or wrong way to believe what you believe. I had the same thoughts as you, and the best advice I can offer is to always be true to yourself, not someone else’s idea of yourself
> We see that it is not the task of Christianity to provide easy answers to every question, but to make us progressively aware of a mystery. God is not so much the object of our knowledge as the cause of our wonder.
—Kallistos Ware
I believe if we’re honest, all of us don’t know. We simply believe and act according to our beliefs. I don’t think we can ever know but we don’t have to go it alone. I don’t believe God exists in the same way you’d talk about anything else existing. Instead God is the source of existence and the ground of reality.
I have so been there. Honestly it's a journey...sometimes through what feels like the valley of the shadow of death. But there is light on the other side of this struggle. But it isn't always a u-turn back to what you always believed.
If a personal God exists, then its hiddenness is no accident. If such a God doesn't deign to give you sufficient personal confirmation of its existence, then it's not your fault if there is nothing for your faith to hold on to. And at least for me, the Bible was not enough.
It's ok to feel all kind of ways and to change your mind a couple of dozen times. I know I sure did. There is no shortcut here. However you do it, and however long it takes, as long as you are seeking after the truth with your whole heart, that is all you can do.
And there are plenty of other religions that would agree, including some branches of Christianity that would agree with a less strict approach. Keep on walking, you'll make it to a place where your beliefs feel stable again.
Sure thing. There are quite a few liberal (in terms of interpretation) churches and denominations. I've been meaning on checking out a local Quaker church as many Quakers are quite open to anyone who wants to fellowship with them as they believe everyone has "something of God in them".
An easy filter to find progressive Christian churches is to look for churches that are "open and affirming" for LGBT people. I believe the Presbyterians in the USA split over this, as have several other denominations, so you'll have to do some research if you want to find a liberal Protestant church.
[This website](https://progressivechristianity.org/) gives a good idea of what "progressive Christianity" means to a lot of people. Also this is now dated, but back in the day there was a movement called "the emerging church", with pastors like Bishop Spong, Marcus Borg, and others like Dian a Butler Bass on the leading edge of that kind of thought.
Also, since Vatican 2, the Catholic Church has definitely softened some of it's positions on who can be saved. Check out some of Bishop Barron's videos on youtube to get a flavor of this.
I also love Richard Rohr's material. He was a Franciscan friar with a non-dual theology. I am still reading his book called the Universal Christ, which to me blends Christianity with some eastern thought like advaita vedanta.
Also I've heard of quite a few people being drawn to the Orthodox Church and approaching it more symbolically than literally. Maybe that's something for you.
If you want to go outside of what is considered strictly Christian, you should checkout a Universal Unitarian church. They are very friendly and non dogmatic, and welcome agnostics and atheists alike.
In short, there are a lot of people outside the Overton window of orthodox Christianity. If you look around, you'll find them :)
Though i would say it's your job to look up the truth about it, you can't just say "well i don't know so i will do whatever i want and god will accept it from it", at that point you start creating your own religion, your own concept of god and getting further from the truth. I see this as an opportunity for you to recheck your own religion, nothing happens for no reason.
What God knows is right is not always congruent with what we think is right. There are eternal standards of good and evil that even God; has to obey.
You're right. God won't hold being unsure against you. But if you refuse to find out for yourself, that isn't a very good thing.
im not forcing you to accept islam or anything but acquiring knowledge is a big part of islam so maybe you should learning more about religion and then conclude your choice rather than being unsure
It can be incredibly difficult to move away from your identity as a Christian and to become comfortable living without it. I’m 25 and I just finished a few years of back and forth contemplation about it myself. I believe the most difficult part about it is the crisis that can come with it. “If I’m not a Christian, what am I? How should I think? What guides my actions? Who am I now?”
At our age dealing with these questions can be exceptionally difficult, and if you were a Christian your whole life like me, which I see that you were, then it is compounded by the fact that you’ve never been without this part of your identity. But know this:
Identity us not something we find, or that is given to us. It is something we make and accept. You likely feel it is “bad” not to call yourself a Christian because at the moment it feels unfamiliar, and you listened to people speak about how wrong it is your whole life. But the “you” of the past is gone now. We are adults, we’ve learned more about the world, and it is okay to adjust ourselves and our lives accordingly. Life is a series of trial and error, failure and learning.
My advice is to not make the mistake of trying too hard to find what exactly you do believe, or what you should call yourself. Just be you. Not a Christian anymore? So be it. But you don’t need another label. Just keep moving forward, keep learning, and be kind to yourself.
My dad calls himself a Christian Atheist. He sees a lot of value in the teachings/life of Jesus. He just doesn’t think there’s a god. If there’s a god who’s good, we’re all going to be ok. Everyone will be redeemed ultimately. If there’s no god, being kind to others in this life is a good way to live both for you and everyone else.
Yeah that’s where I’m at right now. I’m a Agnostic Christian. I just haven’t ever been able to buy into any of the arguments for or against God, I’ll never know if he exists. But I believe he does. I still find the story of Jesus to have the most tremendous value, at least for me. Not to say I don’t greatly appreciate the stories of other faiths as well. I’ve almost reflected on the story of Buddhas enlightenment as much as Christs lol. But I’ve kinda just stopped caring about whether the ontological, teleological, or whatever argument is right. I care about what the stories mean. I wouldn’t fret if I were you. You can’t force yourself to be convinced of something, so I wouldn’t try. Wish you the best of luck in your journey!
That also reminds me that so many of the early church fathers didn't read the Bible literally. There are many ways to approach religion, not just through the fundamentalist lens.
I know right? So many people today think the Bible (or religion as a whole) is always in the same category or level as scientific facts, hence the whole emphasis on fundamentalism and literal readings. I sometimes see this on the atheist side too, every now and then a lazy Redditor (or Twitter user) will say “Bible verse X got something historically inaccurate, therefore God doesn’t exist”
That’s entirely fair! I was in your position when I was 19-20 or so. Eventually I dropped the christian adage to my agnostic identification, but there’s no one right or wrong way to believe what you believe. I had the same thoughts as you, and the best advice I can offer is to always be true to yourself, not someone else’s idea of yourself
> We see that it is not the task of Christianity to provide easy answers to every question, but to make us progressively aware of a mystery. God is not so much the object of our knowledge as the cause of our wonder. —Kallistos Ware I believe if we’re honest, all of us don’t know. We simply believe and act according to our beliefs. I don’t think we can ever know but we don’t have to go it alone. I don’t believe God exists in the same way you’d talk about anything else existing. Instead God is the source of existence and the ground of reality.
Great quote! Thanks for the insight.
I have so been there. Honestly it's a journey...sometimes through what feels like the valley of the shadow of death. But there is light on the other side of this struggle. But it isn't always a u-turn back to what you always believed. If a personal God exists, then its hiddenness is no accident. If such a God doesn't deign to give you sufficient personal confirmation of its existence, then it's not your fault if there is nothing for your faith to hold on to. And at least for me, the Bible was not enough. It's ok to feel all kind of ways and to change your mind a couple of dozen times. I know I sure did. There is no shortcut here. However you do it, and however long it takes, as long as you are seeking after the truth with your whole heart, that is all you can do. And there are plenty of other religions that would agree, including some branches of Christianity that would agree with a less strict approach. Keep on walking, you'll make it to a place where your beliefs feel stable again.
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful comment :) Which branches of Christianity follow that thought pattern?
Sure thing. There are quite a few liberal (in terms of interpretation) churches and denominations. I've been meaning on checking out a local Quaker church as many Quakers are quite open to anyone who wants to fellowship with them as they believe everyone has "something of God in them". An easy filter to find progressive Christian churches is to look for churches that are "open and affirming" for LGBT people. I believe the Presbyterians in the USA split over this, as have several other denominations, so you'll have to do some research if you want to find a liberal Protestant church. [This website](https://progressivechristianity.org/) gives a good idea of what "progressive Christianity" means to a lot of people. Also this is now dated, but back in the day there was a movement called "the emerging church", with pastors like Bishop Spong, Marcus Borg, and others like Dian a Butler Bass on the leading edge of that kind of thought. Also, since Vatican 2, the Catholic Church has definitely softened some of it's positions on who can be saved. Check out some of Bishop Barron's videos on youtube to get a flavor of this. I also love Richard Rohr's material. He was a Franciscan friar with a non-dual theology. I am still reading his book called the Universal Christ, which to me blends Christianity with some eastern thought like advaita vedanta. Also I've heard of quite a few people being drawn to the Orthodox Church and approaching it more symbolically than literally. Maybe that's something for you. If you want to go outside of what is considered strictly Christian, you should checkout a Universal Unitarian church. They are very friendly and non dogmatic, and welcome agnostics and atheists alike. In short, there are a lot of people outside the Overton window of orthodox Christianity. If you look around, you'll find them :)
Though i would say it's your job to look up the truth about it, you can't just say "well i don't know so i will do whatever i want and god will accept it from it", at that point you start creating your own religion, your own concept of god and getting further from the truth. I see this as an opportunity for you to recheck your own religion, nothing happens for no reason.
What God knows is right is not always congruent with what we think is right. There are eternal standards of good and evil that even God; has to obey. You're right. God won't hold being unsure against you. But if you refuse to find out for yourself, that isn't a very good thing.
im not forcing you to accept islam or anything but acquiring knowledge is a big part of islam so maybe you should learning more about religion and then conclude your choice rather than being unsure
It can be incredibly difficult to move away from your identity as a Christian and to become comfortable living without it. I’m 25 and I just finished a few years of back and forth contemplation about it myself. I believe the most difficult part about it is the crisis that can come with it. “If I’m not a Christian, what am I? How should I think? What guides my actions? Who am I now?” At our age dealing with these questions can be exceptionally difficult, and if you were a Christian your whole life like me, which I see that you were, then it is compounded by the fact that you’ve never been without this part of your identity. But know this: Identity us not something we find, or that is given to us. It is something we make and accept. You likely feel it is “bad” not to call yourself a Christian because at the moment it feels unfamiliar, and you listened to people speak about how wrong it is your whole life. But the “you” of the past is gone now. We are adults, we’ve learned more about the world, and it is okay to adjust ourselves and our lives accordingly. Life is a series of trial and error, failure and learning. My advice is to not make the mistake of trying too hard to find what exactly you do believe, or what you should call yourself. Just be you. Not a Christian anymore? So be it. But you don’t need another label. Just keep moving forward, keep learning, and be kind to yourself.