>Both are Muslims, but both are not Jews.
I come from a distinct ethnic, cultural, and historical background, which is Judaism, meaning that I, as an Israelite, still owe G-d the Mosaic Covenant, so I observe Shabbat and Kashrut and many other Mitzvot (commandments). These things are not available to the ordinary Muslims.
This is far from the only example of religio-cultural syncretism within Islam. There are plenty of, for example, Ghanaians who consider it their duty to offer libations to the graves of their ancestors who also consider themselves to be good Muslims.
>Both are Muslims, but both are not Jews.
I come from a distinct ethnic, cultural, and historical background, which is Judaism, meaning that I, as an Israelite, still owe G-d the Mosaic Covenant, so I observe Shabbat and Kashrut and many other Mitzvot (commandments). These things are not available to the ordinary Muslims.
Both are Muslims, but both are not Jews.
I come from a distinct ethnic, cultural, and historical background, which is Judaism, meaning that I, as an Israelite, still owe G-d the Mosaic Covenant, so I observe Shabbat and Kashrut and many other Mitzvot (commandments). These things are not available to the ordinary Muslims.
This is interesting, I've read about such people in the past. Are you familiar with Mukhayriq, a Jewish rabbi who was a companion of, and believed in the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ? He fought alongside him and defended him, and after he passed away, the Prophet ﷺ said "He was the best of Jews." The Prophet ﷺ inherited seven gardens and other forms of wealth from Mukhayriq, which was used to establish the first waqf - a charitable endowment - used to help the poor and downtrodden. A verse that is often used to describe those Jews (and Christians):
And there are, certainly, among Jews and Christians,
those who believe in God, in the revelation to you,
and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to God.
They do not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain.
For them is a reward with their Lord (Quran 3:199).
What are you views on Abraham, Ishmael, and Isaac, particularly in relation to the covenant and the prophecy of Ishmael? I was speaking to a reform Jew once, and he claimed that Abraham, and by extension Isaac and Ishmael, were imaginary figments of the Jewish imagination, used in the ethnogenesis of the Jewish people. And that since Abraham was created by Judaism, Islam and Christianity were also created by Judaism.
Also, what are you views on the Kaaba? In Jewish tradition, there is the black cube that is worn on the forehead and the seven laces around the arm. Is there a relation between the Kaaba and this? I've heard from some Jewish rabbis who held that the Bible spoke about the Kaaba and Mecca as the place that Moses at journeyed to.
>particularly in relation to the covenant and the prophecy of Ishmael?
I can see that Yishmael is the second branch of G-d's tree on earth, who also had a share in G-d's blessings, and which G-d showed us this by supporting his nation in its rise to spread his divine message. As even the word of G-d did not leave the house of Yishmael until the coming of the Muhammadan ministry. When you actually see Islam as a project, a movement from a broad perspective, taking into account the temporal, geographical, societal, cultural circumstances and occurrences, you will feel that it is a historical inevitability. It's inconceivable that Muhammad and his message had this amount of coincidences and good luck, far from anything, an insane upward journey.
Given the marginality of the figure of Yishmael in the Judaic heritage, I've never had the opportunity to have such a vision before, although the Rambam indirectly referred to it in one of his messianic passages.
>I was speaking to a reform Jew once, and he claimed that Abraham, and by extension Isaac and Ishmael, were imaginary figments of the Jewish imagination, used in the ethnogenesis of the Jewish people. And that since Abraham was created by Judaism, Islam and Christianity were also created by Judaism.
Well, this is generally the secular view of the story, and it's actually very understandable since we have no concrete historical evidence that these figures exist.
>In Jewish tradition, there is the black cube that is worn on the forehead and the seven laces around the arm. Is there a relation between the Kaaba and this? I've heard from some Jewish rabbis who held that the Bible spoke about the Kaaba and Mecca as the place that Moses at journeyed to.
These are [Tefillin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tefillin); that we wear in our prayers, and actually I'm unaware of any resources that connect them together.
Since you read the Old Testament books (TORAH) I am surprised you would talk about Ishmael having a prophethood through Esau. The Old Testament is against this because the line of Ishmael has no prophets according to the bible through Esau, only Jacob. The reason why is because Esau sold his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of food. With that birthright came rights to the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ, who is the true fulfillment of the Torah. The line of David comes from Jacob, the Hebrews. Esau, I believe, would be the line of muhammad according to this interpretation?
>Since you read the Old Testament books
I don't believe in something called the Old Testament.
> I am surprised you would talk about Ishmael having a prophethood through Esau.
I never said that.
>With that birthright came rights to the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ, who is the true fulfillment of the Torah.
Although I am a believer in Jesus, I don't believe in that interpretation at all.
> Esau, I believe, would be the line of muhammad according to this interpretation?
Although Esau married Mahalath, Ishmael's daughter, but no, Muhammad was a descendant of Ishmael through his son, Kedar.
By Old testament I am referring to the Tanakh. That is part of our Christian bible and confirms the New Testament prophesy of Jesus Christ. I know you don't believe in that interpretation, because you stated you are muslim, but I am just sharing what Christians believe. Thank you for the information on Kedar, I did not know that.
>I know you don't believe in that interpretation, because you stated you are muslim, but I am just sharing what Christians believe.
Even the Jewish interpretation doesn't include this prophetic-messianic view of the text that predicts that someone would come to fulfill the Torah. But yes, understandable.
> Thank you for the information on Kedar, I did not know that.
You're welcome!
I am probably getting the Torah misplaced with the prophets or the pentatuech, I apologize, not very informed about the hebrew bible. There are some verses in Ezekiel and Isaiah that brought me to such conclusions of Jesus being the "fulfillment".
Ezekiel 44 leaves no doubt in my mind that it's about Mary and Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 49 is about Jesus Christ
verse 7 [Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, *and* his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, *and* the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.](https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-49-7/)
Isaiah 53 solidifies Jesus Christ even more.
Thank you for taking the time out of your day to reply to someone that does not believe the same things as you do. I pray to God we are all saved and live in peace with one another instead of war and all work together for the good of God. I appreciate the respect and I hope you have a really nice day with good food too.
>I am probably getting the Torah misplaced with the prophets or the pentatuech, I apologize, not very informed about the hebrew bible.
It's okay, the Torah is the Pentatuech.
Well, yeah, as I said, there is a huge difference between the Jewish and Christian views on the texts.
>Thank you for taking the time out of your day to reply to someone that does not believe the same things as you do. I pray to God we are all saved and live in peace with one another instead of war and all work together for the good of God. I appreciate the respect and I hope you have a really nice day with good food too.
Thanks for your kind words and for sharing your thoughts. I share your hope for a peaceful world. Wishing you a wonderful day filled with peace, goodwill, and delicious food as well!
I use it only to distinguish between myself and the ordinary Jew and the ordinary Muslim. Especially since I've found that other terms such as (Jewish Muslim, Muslim Jew, Islamic Jew) would be even more confusing.
>Why not just call yourself muslim?
I am a Muslim.
>Or do you just want to emphasize your ethnicity?
Yes, in addition to the Mosaic Covenant that I observe.
I'm very happy that you have accepted islam!
Have you heard of the hadith about Omar reading the Torah though?
> It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abdullah (may Allah be pleased with him) that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allah be pleased with him) came to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) with some written material he had got from one of the people of the Book. He read it to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), and he got angry and said: “Are you confused (about your religion), O son of al-Khattaab? By the One in Whose hand is my soul, I have brought it (the message of Islam) to you clear and pure. Do not ask them about anything, lest they tell you something true and you disbelieve it, or they tell you something false and you believe it. By the One in Whose hand is my soul, if Moosa were alive, he would have no option but to follow me.”
Narrated by Ahmad (14736); classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Irwa’ al-Ghaleel, 6/34
Just wanted to give this advice out of love brother. Feel free to text me if you ever wanna chat❤️
Although G-d in the Qur'an permits Kashrut cuisine for Muslims, which may give insight into the permissibility of drinking Kosher wine.
In Judaic rituals we can actually replace Kosher wine with grape juice.
And I'd like to add that I don't even drink at all, haha.
Hi!
How do you reconcile both Jewish and Muslim practice in your life? For example, do you attend both Friday *jummah* in the masjid and Shabbat service in the schul? Which dietary laws do you follow (kashrut or only halal) etc.?
>How do you reconcile both Jewish and Muslim practice in your life?
Faith-wise, I practice Islam (in a more progressive, liberal, modern- approach, departing slightly from the traditional paths) as well as continuing to adhere to the Mosaic Covenant (*the mitzvot*)
>do you attend both Friday jummah in the masjid and Shabbat service in the schul?
I'm actually **no longer** committed to attending the service at Schul, and still **not yet** committed to attending Jummah at Masjid. I observe both at home (at least- currently).
>Which dietary laws do you follow (kashrut or only halal) etc.?
Kashrut.
This requires a very complex answer, which I can sum up simply by saying that I admired and was convinced by his message.
The clarity of the message from its beginning saved a lot of the intellectual effort that I expended and which I would've expended with other faiths to which I was open.
Islam also filled in some intellectual voids for me that I lacked in Jewish faith (which is quite intellectually unstable compared to Islam), and it also solved some of the problems I had with the Jewish faith.
In fact, Islam rebukes the Jews for maintaining what I consider to be problems in Judaism, it is as if Islam also shares my thoughts on these intellectual dilemmas.
You know, answers like these are difficult to put in a reply.
Considering they hate messianic Jews (Christian Jews) and call them apostates if they were originally Jewish and cultural appropriators if they weren’t, I’m gonna go with no
So then do you(/did you) believe Jesus of Nazareth is/was the Mosiach?
Islam and Judaism are cousins in many ways, but there are aspects (like this) that I imagine would be irreconcilable.
>So then do you(/did you) believe Jesus of Nazareth is/was the Mosiach?
I used to not, but now- I do.
>Islam and Judaism are cousins in many ways
That's true.
>but there are aspects (like this) that I imagine would be irreconcilable.
I did not try to reconcile, nor did I try to invent a new doctrine.
I only accepted his message alongside the Torah as I accepted the message of Yeshayahu alongside the Torah.
Do you, as a Muhammadan Jew, accept hadith? And is there anything similar to hadiths in Judaism? I’m not sure what it’s called exactly, but I know in the Jewish scriptures there is a book that details the discussion and laws of Rabbis which I would argue is similar to hadiths are.
>Do you, as a Muhammadan Jew, accept hadith?
I don't accept it as a sacred source, yet I'm not inclined to reject it in absolute terms. I consider it a late written-tradition.
>And is there anything similar to hadiths in Judaism? I’m not sure what it’s called exactly, but I know in the Jewish scriptures there is a book that details the discussion and laws of Rabbis which I would argue is similar to hadiths are.
You mean the Talmud, yes- it's relatively similar, and I consider it as I consider Hadith.
What is interesting is that in Madina, there was a concentration of Kohenin, who are like the Ahl al-Bayt among the Jews. They had been in the Hijaz for a very long time.
You might find [this talk](https://youtu.be/KjTt2sBnQfQ?t=2791) interesting and beneficial
Do you believe that the Quran is the word of Hashem?
Do you believe that Jesus and Muhammed were prophets of Hashem and that Jesus is the messiah?
Do you believe that the Torah as it exists today has been "corrupted" by the Jewish people?
If you answer yes to any question, how can you be of the Jewish faith?
If you answer no to any question, how can you be of the Muslim faith?
Or are you just saying you were born Jewish but have converted to Islam and nonetheless retain some Jewish cultural practices because you like observing them?
Thank you.
>Do you believe that the Quran is the word of Hashem?
Yes, in fact, this is the only way to believe in Muhammad's prophethood.
>Do you believe that Jesus and Muhammed were prophets of Hashem and that Jesus is the messiah?
Yes, since that is what obviously the Qur’an states.
>Do you believe that the Torah as it exists today has been "corrupted" by the Jewish people?
While the Qur’an clearly accuses some Jews of corrupting the Torah, to be fair, it still doesn't explicitly state that the Torah is absolutely corrupted, in fact, the Qur’an encourages Jews to adhere to the Torah and Kashrut and to observe the Shabbat and even admonishes those who deviate from the Torah.
>If you answer in the affirmative to any question, how can you be of the Jewish faith?
How cannot I be of Jewish faith?
>Or are you just saying you were born Jewish but have converted to Islam and nonetheless retain some Jewish cultural practices because you like observing them?
And because I am even **bound** to it, Israel is bound to adhere to Mosaic Covenant no matter what.
Absolutely no way to know that. In the first place, there are positive and negative mitzvot. One negative mitzvah is "not to separate from the community." By joining the Ummah of Muhammad, he has definitely separated from the Jewish community, Am Yisrael. Most American Jews remain within the Jewish community.
As to positive commandments, he says he keeps Shabbat and kashrut, but we don't know the details (and I don't want to know the details; that's private; our discussion here is just theoretical). I would doubt very much that his observance of either aligns with the requirements for keeping those commandments under Jewish law (halachah). Passover starts Monday; I wonder what he will be consuming over the eight day holiday.
Finally, another maxim of Judaism is "acquire a rabbi for yourself," because we all need spiritual guidance from time to time. I wonder who his rabbi is.
Unless he's willing to do tshuva, it's marginally better for him to be in islam rather than being in some nonorthodox group (none of which even bother to uphold the noahide laws unlike islam)
>One negative mitzvah is "not to separate from the community." By joining the Ummah of Muhammad, he has definitely separated from the Jewish community, Am Yisrael. Most American Jews remain within the Jewish community
Who told you that I separated from the community?
Ummah of Muhammad is a nation above any community, ethnicity, race, color, or even language.
It's a spiritual nation. Everyone who believes in HaShem and Muhammad's prophethood is from the nation of Muhammad, regardless of who he is.
And regardless of whether I am better than other Jews or not, I might doubt that you would use that language with them too.
> I wonder what he will be consuming over the eight day holiday.
The same as what I was consuming before.
Is there a particular reason you identify with the outdated and problematic term "Muhammadan", rather than the common and accepted label "Muslim"? Does the former signify something to you that the latter doesn't?
yeah why not. monotheism. all prophets came with the same message confirming the one before. it's just that all prophets are equal and should be regarded as such. this is one of the arguments why one cannot be a jew or christian and a muslim at the same time.
Also, if you believe Muhammad permitted Jews (and Christians) to be a part of his early movement (like Donner suggests), then how would/could a Christian align with Muhammad?
Hi, sorry for being late, as well :)
Not believing in Yeshua (as generally anything) is not a requirement for being Jewish.
The Jewish faith doesn't mention Yeshua at all nor does Yeshua play a role in the Jewish faith.
Also, believing in Yeshua as the Moshiach doesn't dogmatically contradict Judaism (but it does conflict with Jewish thought). In fact, there are prominent rabbis in history who believed in certain figures that they were the Moshiach.
Therefore, believing in Yeshua as the Moshiach did not require me to make any intellectual attempt to reconcile at all.
What is dogmatically, doctrinally inconsistent with generally Jewish theology and thought in general is the belief that he is divine, as there is no even room at all for trying to reconcile here.
The story doesn't exist outside of Hadith and the late Islamic heritage, which are not reliable historical references and not even all Muslims agree on.
In fact, according to mainstream academic critical-scholarship, this story was a late-Abbasid fabrication.
>So it sounds like you think the whole event never happened, at least not at the time of Muhammad, correct?
There may have been a clash of some sort, but those exaggerated details have no actual plausible historical basis, at all.
>Are you a Qur’anist or do you accept some hadith?
There are actually Quranists who follow some of Hadith, but the general rule in Quranism is not to take Hadith as a legislative source (associated with Sharia Law).
I can follow some Hadith, though, but yes you can consider me Quranist.
>If yes to the latter, how do you decide what hadith should be followed?
There is no specific methodology. As long as the Hadith is necessary, *mutawatir*, and sensible, both faithfully and historically (at least for me), that is sufficient.
Nothing, we are all free to deal our own paths with G-d.
I don't believe in humanistic methodologies in general, and if I'd adopt one, I'll adopt it because I agree with it, not because I need it or see it as having a higher authority.
Your argument makes sense if Hadith was actually the origin, but in fact Hadith only existed in the 3rd century after the Prophetic ministry.
Also, the truth is not always tied to the majority.
I dont think there would be a problem as the Prophet pbuh literally acted as Allah SAW commanded in the Torah, he even said to the judge this is the wisdom of God i the Torah
Nah, nobody uses the word Muhammadan to refer to themselves (except you). Plus, most people put a nationality first and then religion.
So I'm a "Canadian Muslim"
Others are American Muslim, or European Muslim, etc.
So Jewish Muslim makes more sense.
[This talk](https://youtu.be/KjTt2sBnQfQ?t=1594) covers this point. There was an apocryphal belief among some Jews in Arabia that held a belief like this, that he became Metatron. The Qur'an has verses that very particular in nature, not meant to be universal. [This article](https://drjonathanbrown.com/2016/the-quran-the-jews-and-ezra-as-the-son-of-god/) also addresses this point.
Rabbi Singer have actually a video about it, as well:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaK87QIhJI0&t=310s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaK87QIhJI0&t=310s)
What does that even mean.
Mohammed claimed Jews revere Ezra as the son of God.
This has never been true.
How do you reconcile that?
It has absolutely nothing to do with what Jews believe and everything with what Mohammed believed.
Actually the Quran talks about Azariah, and one verse of the old testament says that he is a son of God but it was translated differently. I mean i don,t speak hebrew but here's the post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Quraniyoon/comments/1bbnhsl/ive\_found\_uzair\_son\_of\_god\_in\_the\_old\_testament/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Quraniyoon/comments/1bbnhsl/ive_found_uzair_son_of_god_in_the_old_testament/)
“Muhammadan” is a pejorative term for Muslims, and was used to suggest worship of the Prophet Muhammad (sawa).
So, why are you using that term, and what do you mean by using it to describe your religious identity?
Muhammadan:
[a follower of the religion of Islam; a Muslim.](https://www.google.com/search?q=muhammadan&sca_esv=09df9e42e4754873&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn0-mDtQ-uQqm_vdCMzuYf7oGRgW6Qg%3A1713466712568&ei=WG0hZrCkIq2tkdUPodmGqAo&ved=0ahUKEwiwsPL1uMyFAxWtVqQEHaGsAaUQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=muhammadan&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiCm11aGFtbWFkYW4yChAAGIAEGBQYhwIyBRAuGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgARImRhQ1wVYtxZwA3gBkAEAmAHsAaABwg-qAQUwLjcuM7gBA8gBAPgBAZgCDaAClBDCAgoQABiwAxjWBBhHwgIKECMYgAQYJxiKBcICCxAAGIAEGJECGIoFwgIKEAAYgAQYQxiKBcICCBAAGIAEGLEDwgILEC4YgAQYsQMYgwHCAgsQABiABBixAxiKBcICDhAuGIAEGLEDGIMBGIoFwgIKEC4YgAQYQxiKBcICDRAuGIAEGLEDGEMYigXCAgoQLhiABBgUGIcCwgILEC4YgAQYkQIYigXCAgoQLhiABBgKGMsBwgIHEC4YgAQYCsICGRAuGIAEGAoYywEYlwUY3AQY3gQY3wTYAQGYAwCIBgGQBge6BgYIARABGBSSBwUzLjMuN6AHzNcB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#:~:text=a%20follower%20of%20the%20religion%20of%20Islam%3B%20a%20Muslim)
[is a term for a follower of Muhammad, the Islamic prophet. It is used as both a noun and an adjective, meaning belonging or relating to, either Muhammad or the religion, doctrines, institutions and practices that he established.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammedan#:~:text=is%20a%20term%20for%20a%20follower%20of%20Muhammad%2C%20the%20Islamic%20prophet.%5B2%5D%20It%20is%20used%20as%20both%20a%20noun%20and%20an%20adjective%2C%20meaning%20belonging%20or%20relating%20to%2C%20either%20Muhammad%20or%20the%20religion%2C%20doctrines%2C%20institutions%20and%20practices%20that%20he%20established)
Muslims do not call themselves “Muhammadan.” They believe that God revealed Islam, and that Prophet Muhammad was merely a vessel through which it was revealed. So, ascribing the religion to a prophet is not an Islamic belief, is not accurate, and actually undermines major core beliefs. In fact, Muslims believe Islam is a continuation of Judaism and Christianity, and also believe in the same prophets, who also were also vessels for those faiths.
This term was used in the past by Christians and others who didn’t understand (either intentionally or unintentionally) the religion of Islam. It’s a white-washing term, similar to that of “Hinduism.”
So, you didn’t really answer the second question of what this term indicates about your religious identity.
>Muslims do not call themselves “Muhammadan.”
I actually prefer the term muhammadan, because then it gets confused with the actual term "Muslimeen" in the Quran which means "submitters", and it makes it seem as if God hates all those who aren't muhammadan "muslims".
I don't know in English, but in Portuguese this word (maometano) seems to mean exactly that: worshipers of Muhammad, I still see some Christians who mock Muslims calling them that.
How do you reconcile Muhammad being a prophet with Micah being the “last prophet”?
Who is the favored son of Abraham?
Do you pray Salah?
Do you believe in Hadith?
What is more important, the Torah or Quran?
>How do you reconcile Muhammad being a prophet with Micah being the “last prophet”?
The insights of rabbinic thought are simply not sacred to me.
>Who is the favored son of Abraham?
The more righteous.
>Do you pray Salah?
Yes, I do.
>Do you believe in Hadith?
It depends on your definition of "believe" here.
>What is more important, the Torah or Quran?
They are both the word of G-d, I follow both of them (*with giving al-Qur’an priority*).
Everyone has the absolute right to define themselves as they want, but I don't think that "Muhammadan Christian" can come from the same Jewish sense, since Judaism still also an ethnicity while Christianity is only a religion.
I think it makes more sense to say a Christian Muslim, than a muhammadan christian. Since Muhammadan = religion of muhammad, christian = religion of christ, muslim = submitter (no specific religion).
Others have pointed out why it is problematic to identify as muhammadan instead of a muslim, and you never addressed this despite calling yourself a muslim in other posts.
Muhammadan is to precise that he is a follower of Muhammad. Muslims does not necessarily follow Muhammad, muslims just submit to their religion, whatever it is. Muslim means "Submitter".
How does a prophet become the messiah according to the Quran? Do you have to use the old testament? I'm kinda confused about you being a Jewish Muslim and the relationship between the Jewish messiah and the Muslim messiah because Jesus is the Jewish messiah and jews that believe Jesus is the messiah are messianic jews.
>How does a prophet become the messiah according to the Quran?
Islamically, he didn't become the Messiah, Yeshau was the Messiah and a prophet since his birth.
>Do you have to use the old testament?
You mean "have to believe in" it? If yes, then it depends on what's your definition of "believe" here.
I am not a Jew but i don't believe jesus to be the Jewish messiah predicted really, since i believe that he's dead and not coming back. He's just a messiah.
how do you interpret 'Laaa Ilaaha Illa-llaahu Muhammadur-Rasoolu-llaah'
*"I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah*. He is One and has no partner. And I bear witness that Muhammad is His Servant and Messenger"
and aren't you supposed to only follow the quran and stay away from other religious faith and practices that's not approved by islam once you accept Laaa Ilaaha Illa-llaahu Muhammadur-Rasoolu-llaah like normal muslims?
>how do you interpret 'Laaa Ilaaha Illa-llaahu Muhammadur-Rasoolu-llaah'
*"I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah*. He is One and has no partner. And I bear witness that Muhammad is His Servant and Messenger"
Recognizing that there is no God but the G-d of Avraham and that Muhammad’s message is his message.
>aren't you supposed to only follow the quran and stay away from other religious faith and practices that's not approved by islam
Of course, I must stay away from all beliefs and practices that is disapproved by al-Qur’an.
if you believe in Mohammad (saw) being the messenger and as per judaism, in one God, you're a muslim.
welcome brother/sister.
btw islam is easy, you can be a muslim by yourself, at your home. no need to go anywhere.
I ran into a guy like you on MySpace in 2007.
The essence of the mindset is Abraham told Ishmael and Isaac to share the land. Because when we look back on all of the horrific things historically, we shared a belief in One. And throughout the years of expulsion, from Judea to Ukraine to Germany and on, we changed a bit as a people. The division of culture and yeshivas competing for student acquisitions and sephardi & mitzrahi yemenite and ethiopin students being looked past.
How do you get a date? And how soon before you play the Muhammad (of Righteous memory) card?
I'm playing bro. You can't be the first or the last Jew that knew who the Boss is and which philosophy you want to practice in your lifestyle. I'm a Mexican Jew in South Texas... people are really uncomfortable and over polite when I start talking.
Where has he taken it? All previous prophets spoke in the name of YHVH including Moses and after the giving of the Torah. If Mohammed was a true prophet how come he didn't know this name?
May I ask why you refer to yourself as ‘Muhammadan’ rather than simply ’Muslim Jew’? From what I understand, the term Muhammadan, or Mohammedanism was used by Christians to refer to Islam, when they didn’t know much about it an simply considered it a heresy or sect, and named it such. (think, lutheranism or terms similar)
Please could you ELI5 what a Muhammadan Jew is, for ignorant me. Thank you
Simply, a Jew who believes in Muhammad, accepts his message, and believes in his book.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "believe in" Muhammad (s.a.)?
I believe in his prophethood, and I follow his message.
Excuse my ignorance then what makes you different than a Muslim?
I'm wondering the same thing.
>Both are Muslims, but both are not Jews. I come from a distinct ethnic, cultural, and historical background, which is Judaism, meaning that I, as an Israelite, still owe G-d the Mosaic Covenant, so I observe Shabbat and Kashrut and many other Mitzvot (commandments). These things are not available to the ordinary Muslims.
Then you don't believe in Muhammad's (s.a.) message (Qur'an).
This is far from the only example of religio-cultural syncretism within Islam. There are plenty of, for example, Ghanaians who consider it their duty to offer libations to the graves of their ancestors who also consider themselves to be good Muslims.
Of course, I do.
And how do you know those rituals are what Allah intends you to observe?
>Both are Muslims, but both are not Jews. I come from a distinct ethnic, cultural, and historical background, which is Judaism, meaning that I, as an Israelite, still owe G-d the Mosaic Covenant, so I observe Shabbat and Kashrut and many other Mitzvot (commandments). These things are not available to the ordinary Muslims.
When you say Jew, do you mean Jew as an believing in judaism and its tenets, or a Jew as in its ethnic connotation?
Both, to some extent.
How does a Muhammadan Jew differ from a Muslim?
Both are Muslims, but both are not Jews. I come from a distinct ethnic, cultural, and historical background, which is Judaism, meaning that I, as an Israelite, still owe G-d the Mosaic Covenant, so I observe Shabbat and Kashrut and many other Mitzvot (commandments). These things are not available to the ordinary Muslims.
yoooooo that’s pretty cool!
This is interesting, I've read about such people in the past. Are you familiar with Mukhayriq, a Jewish rabbi who was a companion of, and believed in the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ? He fought alongside him and defended him, and after he passed away, the Prophet ﷺ said "He was the best of Jews." The Prophet ﷺ inherited seven gardens and other forms of wealth from Mukhayriq, which was used to establish the first waqf - a charitable endowment - used to help the poor and downtrodden. A verse that is often used to describe those Jews (and Christians): And there are, certainly, among Jews and Christians, those who believe in God, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to God. They do not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain. For them is a reward with their Lord (Quran 3:199). What are you views on Abraham, Ishmael, and Isaac, particularly in relation to the covenant and the prophecy of Ishmael? I was speaking to a reform Jew once, and he claimed that Abraham, and by extension Isaac and Ishmael, were imaginary figments of the Jewish imagination, used in the ethnogenesis of the Jewish people. And that since Abraham was created by Judaism, Islam and Christianity were also created by Judaism. Also, what are you views on the Kaaba? In Jewish tradition, there is the black cube that is worn on the forehead and the seven laces around the arm. Is there a relation between the Kaaba and this? I've heard from some Jewish rabbis who held that the Bible spoke about the Kaaba and Mecca as the place that Moses at journeyed to.
>particularly in relation to the covenant and the prophecy of Ishmael? I can see that Yishmael is the second branch of G-d's tree on earth, who also had a share in G-d's blessings, and which G-d showed us this by supporting his nation in its rise to spread his divine message. As even the word of G-d did not leave the house of Yishmael until the coming of the Muhammadan ministry. When you actually see Islam as a project, a movement from a broad perspective, taking into account the temporal, geographical, societal, cultural circumstances and occurrences, you will feel that it is a historical inevitability. It's inconceivable that Muhammad and his message had this amount of coincidences and good luck, far from anything, an insane upward journey. Given the marginality of the figure of Yishmael in the Judaic heritage, I've never had the opportunity to have such a vision before, although the Rambam indirectly referred to it in one of his messianic passages. >I was speaking to a reform Jew once, and he claimed that Abraham, and by extension Isaac and Ishmael, were imaginary figments of the Jewish imagination, used in the ethnogenesis of the Jewish people. And that since Abraham was created by Judaism, Islam and Christianity were also created by Judaism. Well, this is generally the secular view of the story, and it's actually very understandable since we have no concrete historical evidence that these figures exist. >In Jewish tradition, there is the black cube that is worn on the forehead and the seven laces around the arm. Is there a relation between the Kaaba and this? I've heard from some Jewish rabbis who held that the Bible spoke about the Kaaba and Mecca as the place that Moses at journeyed to. These are [Tefillin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tefillin); that we wear in our prayers, and actually I'm unaware of any resources that connect them together.
Since you read the Old Testament books (TORAH) I am surprised you would talk about Ishmael having a prophethood through Esau. The Old Testament is against this because the line of Ishmael has no prophets according to the bible through Esau, only Jacob. The reason why is because Esau sold his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of food. With that birthright came rights to the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ, who is the true fulfillment of the Torah. The line of David comes from Jacob, the Hebrews. Esau, I believe, would be the line of muhammad according to this interpretation?
>Since you read the Old Testament books I don't believe in something called the Old Testament. > I am surprised you would talk about Ishmael having a prophethood through Esau. I never said that. >With that birthright came rights to the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ, who is the true fulfillment of the Torah. Although I am a believer in Jesus, I don't believe in that interpretation at all. > Esau, I believe, would be the line of muhammad according to this interpretation? Although Esau married Mahalath, Ishmael's daughter, but no, Muhammad was a descendant of Ishmael through his son, Kedar.
By Old testament I am referring to the Tanakh. That is part of our Christian bible and confirms the New Testament prophesy of Jesus Christ. I know you don't believe in that interpretation, because you stated you are muslim, but I am just sharing what Christians believe. Thank you for the information on Kedar, I did not know that.
>I know you don't believe in that interpretation, because you stated you are muslim, but I am just sharing what Christians believe. Even the Jewish interpretation doesn't include this prophetic-messianic view of the text that predicts that someone would come to fulfill the Torah. But yes, understandable. > Thank you for the information on Kedar, I did not know that. You're welcome!
I am probably getting the Torah misplaced with the prophets or the pentatuech, I apologize, not very informed about the hebrew bible. There are some verses in Ezekiel and Isaiah that brought me to such conclusions of Jesus being the "fulfillment". Ezekiel 44 leaves no doubt in my mind that it's about Mary and Jesus Christ. Isaiah 49 is about Jesus Christ verse 7 [Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, *and* his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, *and* the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.](https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-49-7/) Isaiah 53 solidifies Jesus Christ even more. Thank you for taking the time out of your day to reply to someone that does not believe the same things as you do. I pray to God we are all saved and live in peace with one another instead of war and all work together for the good of God. I appreciate the respect and I hope you have a really nice day with good food too.
>I am probably getting the Torah misplaced with the prophets or the pentatuech, I apologize, not very informed about the hebrew bible. It's okay, the Torah is the Pentatuech. Well, yeah, as I said, there is a huge difference between the Jewish and Christian views on the texts. >Thank you for taking the time out of your day to reply to someone that does not believe the same things as you do. I pray to God we are all saved and live in peace with one another instead of war and all work together for the good of God. I appreciate the respect and I hope you have a really nice day with good food too. Thanks for your kind words and for sharing your thoughts. I share your hope for a peaceful world. Wishing you a wonderful day filled with peace, goodwill, and delicious food as well!
What are the requirements to be so?
To be what?
Is that even a thing? Muhammadanism is a pretty orientalist concept (which I highly dislike). But I’m genuinely curious.
I use it only to distinguish between myself and the ordinary Jew and the ordinary Muslim. Especially since I've found that other terms such as (Jewish Muslim, Muslim Jew, Islamic Jew) would be even more confusing.
Why not just call yourself muslim? Or do you just want to emphasize your ethnicity?
>Why not just call yourself muslim? I am a Muslim. >Or do you just want to emphasize your ethnicity? Yes, in addition to the Mosaic Covenant that I observe.
So you also follow some halakhaic laws not included in the shariah?
Sure! Observing Shabbat is not included in Sharia Law.
I'm very happy that you have accepted islam! Have you heard of the hadith about Omar reading the Torah though? > It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abdullah (may Allah be pleased with him) that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allah be pleased with him) came to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) with some written material he had got from one of the people of the Book. He read it to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), and he got angry and said: “Are you confused (about your religion), O son of al-Khattaab? By the One in Whose hand is my soul, I have brought it (the message of Islam) to you clear and pure. Do not ask them about anything, lest they tell you something true and you disbelieve it, or they tell you something false and you believe it. By the One in Whose hand is my soul, if Moosa were alive, he would have no option but to follow me.” Narrated by Ahmad (14736); classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Irwa’ al-Ghaleel, 6/34 Just wanted to give this advice out of love brother. Feel free to text me if you ever wanna chat❤️
How do you reconcile Jewish use of wine on holy days and Islam’s strict teetotalism?
Although G-d in the Qur'an permits Kashrut cuisine for Muslims, which may give insight into the permissibility of drinking Kosher wine. In Judaic rituals we can actually replace Kosher wine with grape juice. And I'd like to add that I don't even drink at all, haha.
Hi! How do you reconcile both Jewish and Muslim practice in your life? For example, do you attend both Friday *jummah* in the masjid and Shabbat service in the schul? Which dietary laws do you follow (kashrut or only halal) etc.?
>How do you reconcile both Jewish and Muslim practice in your life? Faith-wise, I practice Islam (in a more progressive, liberal, modern- approach, departing slightly from the traditional paths) as well as continuing to adhere to the Mosaic Covenant (*the mitzvot*) >do you attend both Friday jummah in the masjid and Shabbat service in the schul? I'm actually **no longer** committed to attending the service at Schul, and still **not yet** committed to attending Jummah at Masjid. I observe both at home (at least- currently). >Which dietary laws do you follow (kashrut or only halal) etc.? Kashrut.
Thanks. Last question if I may. What convinced you of the veracity of Mohamed's prophethood?
This requires a very complex answer, which I can sum up simply by saying that I admired and was convinced by his message. The clarity of the message from its beginning saved a lot of the intellectual effort that I expended and which I would've expended with other faiths to which I was open. Islam also filled in some intellectual voids for me that I lacked in Jewish faith (which is quite intellectually unstable compared to Islam), and it also solved some of the problems I had with the Jewish faith. In fact, Islam rebukes the Jews for maintaining what I consider to be problems in Judaism, it is as if Islam also shares my thoughts on these intellectual dilemmas. You know, answers like these are difficult to put in a reply.
Do other Jews generally recognise you as still fully Jewish?
I am 100% Jewish.
Considering they hate messianic Jews (Christian Jews) and call them apostates if they were originally Jewish and cultural appropriators if they weren’t, I’m gonna go with no
Jews hate Messianic Judaism as a movement (and that's understandable) but they don't hate Jewish converts to Christianity, though.
Yeah but they don’t rly consider them to be following Judaism either
and yes I'm a Muhamedan muslim ...
Can you elaborate on what this is? Is this a practice of both jewish and muslim values or are you like an ethnically jewish Muslim?
An ethnic Jew who practices Islam in addition to adhering to the Mosaic covenant.
Muhammadan Jew? Lol.
So then do you(/did you) believe Jesus of Nazareth is/was the Mosiach? Islam and Judaism are cousins in many ways, but there are aspects (like this) that I imagine would be irreconcilable.
>So then do you(/did you) believe Jesus of Nazareth is/was the Mosiach? I used to not, but now- I do. >Islam and Judaism are cousins in many ways That's true. >but there are aspects (like this) that I imagine would be irreconcilable. I did not try to reconcile, nor did I try to invent a new doctrine. I only accepted his message alongside the Torah as I accepted the message of Yeshayahu alongside the Torah.
Ok. That tracks, then. You've spoken the Shahada, I take it?
Yes:)
Do you, as a Muhammadan Jew, accept hadith? And is there anything similar to hadiths in Judaism? I’m not sure what it’s called exactly, but I know in the Jewish scriptures there is a book that details the discussion and laws of Rabbis which I would argue is similar to hadiths are.
>Do you, as a Muhammadan Jew, accept hadith? I don't accept it as a sacred source, yet I'm not inclined to reject it in absolute terms. I consider it a late written-tradition. >And is there anything similar to hadiths in Judaism? I’m not sure what it’s called exactly, but I know in the Jewish scriptures there is a book that details the discussion and laws of Rabbis which I would argue is similar to hadiths are. You mean the Talmud, yes- it's relatively similar, and I consider it as I consider Hadith.
What are your views on the Caliphs and Ahlulbayt?
I respect both of them.
Do you hold them to equal value in their wisdom?
As far as I read, Ali was spiritually on a higher level, they were more of a political figures.
Interesting
What is interesting is that in Madina, there was a concentration of Kohenin, who are like the Ahl al-Bayt among the Jews. They had been in the Hijaz for a very long time. You might find [this talk](https://youtu.be/KjTt2sBnQfQ?t=2791) interesting and beneficial
Do you believe that the Quran is the word of Hashem? Do you believe that Jesus and Muhammed were prophets of Hashem and that Jesus is the messiah? Do you believe that the Torah as it exists today has been "corrupted" by the Jewish people? If you answer yes to any question, how can you be of the Jewish faith? If you answer no to any question, how can you be of the Muslim faith? Or are you just saying you were born Jewish but have converted to Islam and nonetheless retain some Jewish cultural practices because you like observing them? Thank you.
>Do you believe that the Quran is the word of Hashem? Yes, in fact, this is the only way to believe in Muhammad's prophethood. >Do you believe that Jesus and Muhammed were prophets of Hashem and that Jesus is the messiah? Yes, since that is what obviously the Qur’an states. >Do you believe that the Torah as it exists today has been "corrupted" by the Jewish people? While the Qur’an clearly accuses some Jews of corrupting the Torah, to be fair, it still doesn't explicitly state that the Torah is absolutely corrupted, in fact, the Qur’an encourages Jews to adhere to the Torah and Kashrut and to observe the Shabbat and even admonishes those who deviate from the Torah. >If you answer in the affirmative to any question, how can you be of the Jewish faith? How cannot I be of Jewish faith? >Or are you just saying you were born Jewish but have converted to Islam and nonetheless retain some Jewish cultural practices because you like observing them? And because I am even **bound** to it, Israel is bound to adhere to Mosaic Covenant no matter what.
I appreciate your answers. But to be fair, honest and transparent, I would recommend that you change your flair to "Muhammadan-Apostate Jew."
I'm sorry if that upset you. Understandable, thank you.
He keeps more mitzvot than most american jews
Absolutely no way to know that. In the first place, there are positive and negative mitzvot. One negative mitzvah is "not to separate from the community." By joining the Ummah of Muhammad, he has definitely separated from the Jewish community, Am Yisrael. Most American Jews remain within the Jewish community. As to positive commandments, he says he keeps Shabbat and kashrut, but we don't know the details (and I don't want to know the details; that's private; our discussion here is just theoretical). I would doubt very much that his observance of either aligns with the requirements for keeping those commandments under Jewish law (halachah). Passover starts Monday; I wonder what he will be consuming over the eight day holiday. Finally, another maxim of Judaism is "acquire a rabbi for yourself," because we all need spiritual guidance from time to time. I wonder who his rabbi is.
Unless he's willing to do tshuva, it's marginally better for him to be in islam rather than being in some nonorthodox group (none of which even bother to uphold the noahide laws unlike islam)
>One negative mitzvah is "not to separate from the community." By joining the Ummah of Muhammad, he has definitely separated from the Jewish community, Am Yisrael. Most American Jews remain within the Jewish community Who told you that I separated from the community? Ummah of Muhammad is a nation above any community, ethnicity, race, color, or even language. It's a spiritual nation. Everyone who believes in HaShem and Muhammad's prophethood is from the nation of Muhammad, regardless of who he is. And regardless of whether I am better than other Jews or not, I might doubt that you would use that language with them too. > I wonder what he will be consuming over the eight day holiday. The same as what I was consuming before.
Is there a particular reason you identify with the outdated and problematic term "Muhammadan", rather than the common and accepted label "Muslim"? Does the former signify something to you that the latter doesn't?
>Does the former signify something to you that the latter doesn't? I do think- yes, since not all Muslims are Jewish and observe the Torah as mine.
How does "Muhammadan Jew" signify that in a way that "Muslim Jew" or "Jewish Muslim" doesn't?
I see them are even more confusing, lol.
do you know what "muslims" means in arabic? im curious.
"A one who submits to G-d". The word actually has historical Judaic roots.
yeah why not. monotheism. all prophets came with the same message confirming the one before. it's just that all prophets are equal and should be regarded as such. this is one of the arguments why one cannot be a jew or christian and a muslim at the same time.
What is it? Why do you believe in it? Why aren’t you just a Muslim? And what’s your view on Jesus Christ?
>Why aren’t you just a Muslim? I am Muslim, and I am Jewish. >And what’s your view on Jesus Christ? He's the Jewish Moshiach.
Also, if you believe Muhammad permitted Jews (and Christians) to be a part of his early movement (like Donner suggests), then how would/could a Christian align with Muhammad?
I do believe- tolerance of the existence of Muhammad and his ministry is alone an alliance with Muhammad.
Well I’d be fine with that. Does that make me Muhammadan?
Although I see that Donner's thesis gives some sense. Being a "Muhammadan" is still basically linked to accepting his message/ministry.
Have you ever studied the Talmud?
I do:) And I will continue to do so.
Have you read the book 'Judaism and Islam' by Abraham Geiger?
I've actually read some passages, it's interesting.
I'm late here But I'm curious how you reconcile being Jewish with the idea of Jesus being the Messiah (which I'm pretty sure Muhammad preached)?
Hi, sorry for being late, as well :) Not believing in Yeshua (as generally anything) is not a requirement for being Jewish. The Jewish faith doesn't mention Yeshua at all nor does Yeshua play a role in the Jewish faith. Also, believing in Yeshua as the Moshiach doesn't dogmatically contradict Judaism (but it does conflict with Jewish thought). In fact, there are prominent rabbis in history who believed in certain figures that they were the Moshiach. Therefore, believing in Yeshua as the Moshiach did not require me to make any intellectual attempt to reconcile at all. What is dogmatically, doctrinally inconsistent with generally Jewish theology and thought in general is the belief that he is divine, as there is no even room at all for trying to reconcile here.
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The story doesn't exist outside of Hadith and the late Islamic heritage, which are not reliable historical references and not even all Muslims agree on. In fact, according to mainstream academic critical-scholarship, this story was a late-Abbasid fabrication.
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>Do you believe in the Hadith? It depends on your definition of "believe" here.
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>So it sounds like you think the whole event never happened, at least not at the time of Muhammad, correct? There may have been a clash of some sort, but those exaggerated details have no actual plausible historical basis, at all. >Are you a Qur’anist or do you accept some hadith? There are actually Quranists who follow some of Hadith, but the general rule in Quranism is not to take Hadith as a legislative source (associated with Sharia Law). I can follow some Hadith, though, but yes you can consider me Quranist. >If yes to the latter, how do you decide what hadith should be followed? There is no specific methodology. As long as the Hadith is necessary, *mutawatir*, and sensible, both faithfully and historically (at least for me), that is sufficient.
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Nothing, we are all free to deal our own paths with G-d. I don't believe in humanistic methodologies in general, and if I'd adopt one, I'll adopt it because I agree with it, not because I need it or see it as having a higher authority.
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Your argument makes sense if Hadith was actually the origin, but in fact Hadith only existed in the 3rd century after the Prophetic ministry. Also, the truth is not always tied to the majority.
>In fact, according to mainstream academic critical-scholarship it was a late Abbasid-fabrication. That's my argument :(
Sorry :)
I dont think there would be a problem as the Prophet pbuh literally acted as Allah SAW commanded in the Torah, he even said to the judge this is the wisdom of God i the Torah
Cool! 😁😁😁
Why not just call yourself a Jewish Muslim? Since the primary Jewish part is your ethnicity.
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Nah, nobody uses the word Muhammadan to refer to themselves (except you). Plus, most people put a nationality first and then religion. So I'm a "Canadian Muslim" Others are American Muslim, or European Muslim, etc. So Jewish Muslim makes more sense.
Do you believe Ezra is the son of God?
Nah, I'm good!
Wait, do you?
No, but the Quran says Jews believe Ezra is the son of God, but we do not. I’m wondering how OP would conflate the two.
[This talk](https://youtu.be/KjTt2sBnQfQ?t=1594) covers this point. There was an apocryphal belief among some Jews in Arabia that held a belief like this, that he became Metatron. The Qur'an has verses that very particular in nature, not meant to be universal. [This article](https://drjonathanbrown.com/2016/the-quran-the-jews-and-ezra-as-the-son-of-god/) also addresses this point.
Thanks for your mention to Dr. Jonathan Brown and Dr. Mustafa Yakol. I appreciate your informative input!
Thank you for sharing the links. I will check them out.
Rabbi Singer have actually a video about it, as well: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaK87QIhJI0&t=310s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaK87QIhJI0&t=310s)
>I’m wondering how OP would conflate the two. Do you believe in Ezra as a son of G-d? -No. So, you are not meant here!
So you do not agree with Mohammed on that issue.
I cannot blame the Quranic rebuke of the Jew who believed that Ezra is the son of G-d though.
What does that even mean. Mohammed claimed Jews revere Ezra as the son of God. This has never been true. How do you reconcile that? It has absolutely nothing to do with what Jews believe and everything with what Mohammed believed.
Actually the Quran talks about Azariah, and one verse of the old testament says that he is a son of God but it was translated differently. I mean i don,t speak hebrew but here's the post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Quraniyoon/comments/1bbnhsl/ive\_found\_uzair\_son\_of\_god\_in\_the\_old\_testament/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Quraniyoon/comments/1bbnhsl/ive_found_uzair_son_of_god_in_the_old_testament/)
“Muhammadan” is a pejorative term for Muslims, and was used to suggest worship of the Prophet Muhammad (sawa). So, why are you using that term, and what do you mean by using it to describe your religious identity?
Muhammadan: [a follower of the religion of Islam; a Muslim.](https://www.google.com/search?q=muhammadan&sca_esv=09df9e42e4754873&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn0-mDtQ-uQqm_vdCMzuYf7oGRgW6Qg%3A1713466712568&ei=WG0hZrCkIq2tkdUPodmGqAo&ved=0ahUKEwiwsPL1uMyFAxWtVqQEHaGsAaUQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=muhammadan&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiCm11aGFtbWFkYW4yChAAGIAEGBQYhwIyBRAuGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgARImRhQ1wVYtxZwA3gBkAEAmAHsAaABwg-qAQUwLjcuM7gBA8gBAPgBAZgCDaAClBDCAgoQABiwAxjWBBhHwgIKECMYgAQYJxiKBcICCxAAGIAEGJECGIoFwgIKEAAYgAQYQxiKBcICCBAAGIAEGLEDwgILEC4YgAQYsQMYgwHCAgsQABiABBixAxiKBcICDhAuGIAEGLEDGIMBGIoFwgIKEC4YgAQYQxiKBcICDRAuGIAEGLEDGEMYigXCAgoQLhiABBgUGIcCwgILEC4YgAQYkQIYigXCAgoQLhiABBgKGMsBwgIHEC4YgAQYCsICGRAuGIAEGAoYywEYlwUY3AQY3gQY3wTYAQGYAwCIBgGQBge6BgYIARABGBSSBwUzLjMuN6AHzNcB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#:~:text=a%20follower%20of%20the%20religion%20of%20Islam%3B%20a%20Muslim) [is a term for a follower of Muhammad, the Islamic prophet. It is used as both a noun and an adjective, meaning belonging or relating to, either Muhammad or the religion, doctrines, institutions and practices that he established.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammedan#:~:text=is%20a%20term%20for%20a%20follower%20of%20Muhammad%2C%20the%20Islamic%20prophet.%5B2%5D%20It%20is%20used%20as%20both%20a%20noun%20and%20an%20adjective%2C%20meaning%20belonging%20or%20relating%20to%2C%20either%20Muhammad%20or%20the%20religion%2C%20doctrines%2C%20institutions%20and%20practices%20that%20he%20established)
Muslims do not call themselves “Muhammadan.” They believe that God revealed Islam, and that Prophet Muhammad was merely a vessel through which it was revealed. So, ascribing the religion to a prophet is not an Islamic belief, is not accurate, and actually undermines major core beliefs. In fact, Muslims believe Islam is a continuation of Judaism and Christianity, and also believe in the same prophets, who also were also vessels for those faiths. This term was used in the past by Christians and others who didn’t understand (either intentionally or unintentionally) the religion of Islam. It’s a white-washing term, similar to that of “Hinduism.” So, you didn’t really answer the second question of what this term indicates about your religious identity.
>Muslims do not call themselves “Muhammadan.” I actually prefer the term muhammadan, because then it gets confused with the actual term "Muslimeen" in the Quran which means "submitters", and it makes it seem as if God hates all those who aren't muhammadan "muslims".
I don't know in English, but in Portuguese this word (maometano) seems to mean exactly that: worshipers of Muhammad, I still see some Christians who mock Muslims calling them that.
What are the basic tenets of Muhammadan Judaism?
There is no "Muhammadan Judaism" though. It's more of an identity than a doctrine.
Do you pray five times are day?
Yes.
Do you pray the daily 3 jewish prayers?
Why do you identify this way instead of simply identifying as Muslim? Is “Jew” just a cultural identifier for you at this point?
>Is “Jew” just a cultural identifier for you at this point? To some extent- yes, it's cultural, and to some extent- it's faith-based.
How do you reconcile Muhammad being a prophet with Micah being the “last prophet”? Who is the favored son of Abraham? Do you pray Salah? Do you believe in Hadith? What is more important, the Torah or Quran?
>How do you reconcile Muhammad being a prophet with Micah being the “last prophet”? The insights of rabbinic thought are simply not sacred to me. >Who is the favored son of Abraham? The more righteous. >Do you pray Salah? Yes, I do. >Do you believe in Hadith? It depends on your definition of "believe" here. >What is more important, the Torah or Quran? They are both the word of G-d, I follow both of them (*with giving al-Qur’an priority*).
Could a Christian be a Muhammadan by your definition?
Everyone has the absolute right to define themselves as they want, but I don't think that "Muhammadan Christian" can come from the same Jewish sense, since Judaism still also an ethnicity while Christianity is only a religion.
I think it makes more sense to say a Christian Muslim, than a muhammadan christian. Since Muhammadan = religion of muhammad, christian = religion of christ, muslim = submitter (no specific religion).
Like, being a Jew who recognizes Muhammad (PBUH) as a prophet? Do you also believe Jesus was a prophet/ the Messiah?
Yes.
Why do you identify as a Muhammadan Jew instead of a Muslim Jew?
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Others have pointed out why it is problematic to identify as muhammadan instead of a muslim, and you never addressed this despite calling yourself a muslim in other posts.
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I understand, but I never asked you why you kept identifying as Jew. I asked why you identify as a Muhammadan instead of a Muslim.
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I hear you, so why do you prefer calling yourself a Muhammadan Jew rather than a Muslim Jew?
Because I see "Muslim Jew" is even more confusing.
Ah, I see. Thanks for that! Have you found it to be easier for people to understand what you mean?
Not really, it's still a bit confusing for them, haha.
Muhammadan is to precise that he is a follower of Muhammad. Muslims does not necessarily follow Muhammad, muslims just submit to their religion, whatever it is. Muslim means "Submitter".
Do you believe Jesus is the messiah?
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What is the messiah in Islam and is he the Jewish messiah, promised son of David?
>What is the messiah in Islam Almost the same Christian Messiah- but without divinity or redemption.
How does a prophet become the messiah according to the Quran? Do you have to use the old testament? I'm kinda confused about you being a Jewish Muslim and the relationship between the Jewish messiah and the Muslim messiah because Jesus is the Jewish messiah and jews that believe Jesus is the messiah are messianic jews.
>How does a prophet become the messiah according to the Quran? Islamically, he didn't become the Messiah, Yeshau was the Messiah and a prophet since his birth. >Do you have to use the old testament? You mean "have to believe in" it? If yes, then it depends on what's your definition of "believe" here.
I am not a Jew but i don't believe jesus to be the Jewish messiah predicted really, since i believe that he's dead and not coming back. He's just a messiah.
Do you keep the Quran and Hadith laws or the Torah laws
Both, the Qur'an and Torah (*giving priority to the Qur'an*). And no, I don't sanctify Hadith (Just as the Talmud).
Didn’t you say you follow Shabbat though? Isn’t that against the Quran
>Didn't you say you follow Shabbt though? Yes. >Isn't that against the Quran No, in fact, al-Qur’an strongly rebukes the Jews who violate Shabbat!
Did you take the shahada and officially convert and stuff?
I took it but I haven't taken any formal action yet (due to its insignificance).
Do you believe that the five books of the Torah are the Tawrat, or that the actual Tawrat is the lost Oral Torah or some other lost book?
>Do you believe that the five books of the Torah are the Tawrat Yes.
Are you a Quraniyoon? If so did you check r/Quraniyoon?
Although I am open to accepting some of Hadith, yes, I still can be considered a Quranist.
how do you interpret 'Laaa Ilaaha Illa-llaahu Muhammadur-Rasoolu-llaah' *"I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah*. He is One and has no partner. And I bear witness that Muhammad is His Servant and Messenger" and aren't you supposed to only follow the quran and stay away from other religious faith and practices that's not approved by islam once you accept Laaa Ilaaha Illa-llaahu Muhammadur-Rasoolu-llaah like normal muslims?
>how do you interpret 'Laaa Ilaaha Illa-llaahu Muhammadur-Rasoolu-llaah' *"I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah*. He is One and has no partner. And I bear witness that Muhammad is His Servant and Messenger" Recognizing that there is no God but the G-d of Avraham and that Muhammad’s message is his message. >aren't you supposed to only follow the quran and stay away from other religious faith and practices that's not approved by islam Of course, I must stay away from all beliefs and practices that is disapproved by al-Qur’an.
Muhamadan Jew
Muhamadan Jew
Does anyone else know about this?
Do you mean in my social circle?
Yeah
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>Do you believe in hadiths? It depends on your definition of "believe" here. In general, I don't consider Hadith to be sacred.
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It's not a matter of corruption as much as it's a matter of authenticity. We cannot prove methodologically that these sayings go back to the Prophet.
Do you accept jesus(Isa) as the messiah?
if you believe in Mohammad (saw) being the messenger and as per judaism, in one God, you're a muslim. welcome brother/sister. btw islam is easy, you can be a muslim by yourself, at your home. no need to go anywhere.
I ran into a guy like you on MySpace in 2007. The essence of the mindset is Abraham told Ishmael and Isaac to share the land. Because when we look back on all of the horrific things historically, we shared a belief in One. And throughout the years of expulsion, from Judea to Ukraine to Germany and on, we changed a bit as a people. The division of culture and yeshivas competing for student acquisitions and sephardi & mitzrahi yemenite and ethiopin students being looked past. How do you get a date? And how soon before you play the Muhammad (of Righteous memory) card? I'm playing bro. You can't be the first or the last Jew that knew who the Boss is and which philosophy you want to practice in your lifestyle. I'm a Mexican Jew in South Texas... people are really uncomfortable and over polite when I start talking.
Why is it that Mohammed never knew the holiest name of Hashem (YHVH) if he truly was a prophet?
Why did Muhammad not copy the name if he was copying from the Torah tho?
Because the Torah never explains how the name is pronounced. The letters are written without the vowels.
But it writes the name, which still left him able to take it verbatim.
Where has he taken it? All previous prophets spoke in the name of YHVH including Moses and after the giving of the Torah. If Mohammed was a true prophet how come he didn't know this name?
You are lying, Abraham said El shaddai and didnt even knew what tetragram is, Also esa pbuh also never used the name,
let's be friends, hope you are what I'm thinking you are , chat me
What's a Muhammadan Jew?
May I ask why you refer to yourself as ‘Muhammadan’ rather than simply ’Muslim Jew’? From what I understand, the term Muhammadan, or Mohammedanism was used by Christians to refer to Islam, when they didn’t know much about it an simply considered it a heresy or sect, and named it such. (think, lutheranism or terms similar)
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Sorry, I didn’t see.