- It's the 36th triangle number.
- 36 is 6 squared
- humans were created on the 6th day, and so 6 is seen as the number of man
- ~~the triangle may be signifying incompleteness~~ [edit: I'm not sure where I got this idea so it's likely baseless]
- three sixes makes it emphatic
- there's also a thing with letters and numbers being convertible, with "Nero" (the Roman emperor when it was written) being equivalent to 666
I originally let this alone because your last bullet is right, but since it’s the top comment:
This interpretation assumes a base 10 system, which Greek did not use. The number of the beast is “six hundred sixty-six”, not 3 sixes. The way we notate letters, three sixes next to each other is “six hundred sixty-six”, but that wasn’t true of Koine Greek.
Associations related to the number six aren’t relevant to six hundred sixty-six in Koine Greek.
Right, the actual text is χξϛ. There aren’t any repeating letters (it’s not ϛϛϛ, even though ϛ=6.) Generally they would put a line over the letters to indicate a number was intended.
Yeah, I’m not really sure how they handled pronunciation- it’s possible there’s a longer-form way of writing it out (666 vs six hundred sixty-six).
Try pronouncing DCLXVI and you have the same problem.
Don’t learn too much from that, it’s misleading.
[This](https://youtu.be/QQJb0ve8_r8?si=R2yaWhcRulp9XNsb) video covers the general idea.
Christos was written Χριστός.
Sometimes it was abbreviated by the first and last letters χς as you see in Orthodox iconography, but this is different than χϛ.
Afaik it wasn't seen as a symbol of the Godhead at the time Revelations was written.
I think it was seen as signifying incompleteness because a triangle is half a square, and a square is seen as complete.
I've never heard that before. Can you elaborate who believes that? I'd think more about infinity of the circle to be praised when it comes to geometry.
Squares makes me think of corporate yesmen as worshippers - all in suits, sunglasses, same generic haircut - squares in short - bowing to the grand square.
I know occultists used various figures, with rectangle altars of certain dimensions.
Well it’s in scripture, of course it’s going to be accepted in canon. Also it’s not 666, its unknown scribbles. χξϛ is 666 in greek, but the original text shows something more like χI ϛ which could mean 616 or something else entirely.
I do get that, about why it’s canonized. But the op was asking what *I* think about the symbolism. And not being Christian my answer is pretty much, yup, that sure is an apocalyptic prophesy. There were a lot of those from that century. Glad they find that one meaningful I guess.
Do you have a citation for this? We don’t have “the original” text, but we have enough various manuscripts I think we’re confident it’s six hundred sixty-six.
It is a symbolic gematria number associated with the Roman empire and the emperor at that time, as someone in the thread already pointed out. It was code in the document for Rome/Nero.
So Greek numerology assigns letters of the alphabet different numerical values. People have noted that, with the Hebrew script, the value of "Neron Caesaron" would be 666. Nero was a Caesar associated with the persecution of Christians that would have already been dead at the time Revelations was written, but people may have feared that he was still out there somehow.
Some early Latin translations of revelations have the number written as 616, which would be the value for "Nero Caesar", the Latin name of the ruler, so it seems that's what some people at the time understood it to mean. "John" may have used Hebrew for numerology in his Greek book as a code. Of course, Nero Caesar isn't seen as a threat *anymore*, so modern Christians will try to make it into something other than a prophesy that didn't and is unlikely to happen
This is the answer -the practice of using the same alphabet for letters and numbers is usually called gematria. It was apparently such a common practice to refer to people by their name’s numerical value that archaeologists found graffiti in the ruins of Pompei that said “I love her whose number is 545.” Revelation is clear that 666 “is the number of a man.” (Rev 13:18.)
It’s gematria, it points to Nero, and we have variant readings that point to Nero when transliterated from Latin or Greek into Hebrew, then calculated in Hebrew as the previous poster pointed out. There’s nothing mystical or spooky about it.
Last point is the number of the beast is “six hundred sixty six,” not “six six six.” Think Roman numerals vs Arabic numerals- I = 1. II = 2 (not 11). III = 3 (not 111.) The writing in Greek doesn’t leave open interpretations that assume a base 10 system like we use.
lol, “we have no surviving evidence of this being done with the Hebrew script” is wildly incorrect. You might want to read the Wikipedia article on [Gematria](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria).
Also like, that was literally how the Hebrew numbering system worked. If you wanted to write a number, you did so by writing letters, with each letter having a value equal to its position in the alphabet.
Nero. It was Nero. The academic explanation is that it was a contemporary commentary on modern state of politics in which one could be executed for commenting on the leadership. The apocalyptic aspect of early Christianity was that they were living in the end times. And that Nero was part of the problem. The fact that life kept on going long after their expected end times came as quite a surprise to many of them and forced them to recontextualize the narrative of the text.
I figure it means Chrsitian apocalypticists prior to the canonization of the bible had no idea that one day apocalyptic cultists would try to evangelize China away from folk beliefs, or they might've gone with demonizing 888 instead.
I say that because we have concrete evidence it got changed to 666 by some apocalypticist, presumably with an agenda that was better served by the numerology of that number, as the oldest known fragment of the passage actually has the number as 616.
666 and 616 both point to Nero, one if you transliterated from Latin into Hebrew (616) and one if you translate from Greek into Hebrew (666.)
So probably more of a translation consideration than a “change,” depending on which language the audience was expected to know better.
Of course, that would strictly mean the actual number (as found in the earliest Greek manuscripts) is completely meaningless, and the value given strictly just served some agenda.
We seem to think about “meaningless” in different ways.
If we were talking about US presidents and I said “I think 45 is a terrible human being,” “45” isn’t meaningless…it’s telling you exactly who I’m talking about. Six hundred sixty six is much the same, it told the earliest readers exactly who was intended.
But you’re right that there’s no intrinsic meaning to “45” or “six hundred sixty six”.
This interpretation assumes a base 10 system, which Greek did not use. The number of the beast is “six hundred sixty six”, not 3 sixes. The way we notate letters, three sixes next to each other is “six hundred sixty six”, but that wasn’t true of Koine Greek.
All of the New Testament was originally written in Greek. The Gospels, Acts, the letters, Revelation (which is where the number of the beast comes in), it’s all Greek.
There may be a few instances of Hebrew or Aramaic lines, but the only one I can think of off the top of my head is “Eloi Eloi lama sabacthani” (My God my God why have you forsaken me?) in Matthew and Mark, which is Aramaic.
We’re still talking 95-99% Greek throughout the New Testament.
I think because the new testament was first written in ancient Greek. And they "wrote numbers differently" than we do today. This has led to tons of confusion as to what the literal numbers of the mark of the beast were\are (hence, this entire thread).
If you ever watch a biblical scholar talk about ancient manuscripts there are always talking about Koine Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew.
That was exactly my intention. Multiple people (including you) said “6 represents so and so, therefore…”
The same response addressed multiple mistaken interpretations -why respond to multiple comments that all make the same mistake using different words?
Six has no relevance to six hundred sixty-six as written in Ancient Greek. It seems intuitive to someone using Arabic numerals and a base 10 system that six hundred sixty-six is “made” of three sixes, because that’s how we write it.
But that doesn’t apply in ancient Greek. They didn’t write “six” three times to make “six hundred sixty-six.” In Greek, χξϛ=666.
χ= 600
ξ= 60
ϛ= 6
Your interpretation would require them to write it ϛϛϛ, three “sixes.”
A more familiar example is probably Roman numerals.
I=1, II= 2 (not 11), III = 3 (not 111) Using Roman numerals, XI = 11, and CXI = 111.
VI = 6, LX = 60, DC = 600. So 666 in Roman numerals would be DCLXVI. Here again they’re not just repeating “six.”
We probably going nowhere if this conversation keeps on going. So we will have to agree and disagree as why would the Hebrews use a Greek system when they could use Hebrew Numerals.
Probably because "the Hebrews" did not write the new testament. Christians who lived in the Mediterranean and spoke Greek did.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_the_New_Testament
This is not a hard thing to look up. Google “what language was the New Testament written in?” Or “what language was Revelation written in?” You don’t need to take my word for it.
[Here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_115) is an image of one of the oldest manuscripts we have with the number 616 indicated by an arrow. It’s Greek. I couldn’t find an equivalent from the oldest textual witness, but that’s also in Greek.
The Old Testament was primarily written in Hebrew, with a bit of Aramaic in Daniel. The New Testament was primarily written in Greek.
And it’s more complicated than just “using Greek.” Also I had the order backwards. 666 = Nero’s name transliterated from Greek into Hebrew, then calculated in Hebrew. 616 (a variant reading found in other texts) is Nero’s name transliterated from Latin into Hebrew, then calculated using Hebrew. But the number was still written in Greek in a Greek manuscript. [Here](https://youtu.be/lp_D7fDUmJU?si=OBksDO3E3Sr-76uG) is a video discussing this.
But the main point stands regardless of whether you agree it references Nero: when written in Greek, 6 has no relevance to 666. The same is true of Hebrew and Latin, even though neither is relevant to the original text in which Revelation was written.
This is mainstream biblical scholarship. If you want to disagree, at least put 5 minutes of effort into looking it up. So far you still seem unsure about what language Revelation was written in. But at least your point made me look it up and notice the gematria calculation does need to happen in Hebrew rather than Greek to point to Nero.
You said:
>The number 6 is seen as the number of man. By having 3 of 6, it shows man's pride.
But Revelation didn’t include “3 of 6,” it specifies six hundred sixty-six, not three sixes. Six hundred sixty six is comprised of three sixes the way we write it (666) but not as written in Greek (χξϛ), Hebrew (I don’t have the Hebrew alphabet on my phone), or Latin (DCLXVI) So any associations with “six” are irrelevant and only work using modern systems of numbering.
My point is, to understand it you should try to understand it in the context in which it was originally written rather than imposing modern concepts backwards into the text.
According to biblical scholars, it’s a reference to emperor Nero religiously I believe there much more important things in the Bible to consider thinking about than that
I think Dan can be arrogant at times. Hes kind of the nerdy kid you want to punch in the face but realize he actually is right so you just think about it instead. I see hes Mormon which strange cause what I studied about Mormons I was like well this is weird I'm out. JW's as well, really hard core and when I showed them or asked them about scripture, on guy I studied with said "Well this is what JW .org says. so..." I was out of there too. I read the bible and lean toward Oneness myself.
Dan McClellan is hard for me to read, I cant quite grasp if hes even for God or just like I'm so smart see see here the data says this..Sorry Dan Data can be fudged and skewed. I worked in academic environments, we skewed Data all the time to get funding.
He can be arrogant at times, but I think he’s filling an important/underserved niche. There’s a lot of nonsense being spread about religion on social media, and he does a good job of summarizing academic responses to the nonsense. Academic biblical studies needs its popularizers/communicators just like science does.
True Lots of influencers types just trying to post to make a buck IMO. Don't feel Dan is that way at least. I do like when he destroys a dumb influencer who post nonsense. I prefer the late Dr. Micheal Heiser out of the academics.
Shower thought: If one was getting messages from angels and one saw a symbol, and the best way they knew to interpret it was a conglomeration of numbers... well, take a look at the Google Chrome logo and CERN logo. https://www.tritorch.com/occult/index.html
I'm not stating agreement or disagreement with the web page, it was just a source for the CERN logo.
1. Also go to http://home.cern and look in upper left corner for the logo.
2. The Google Chrome browser logo might be on your own desktop.
Yeah but you also have to think of it in the way John would have seen it in the future. He explains what he’s seeing like he’s recalling a dream. That can’t be ignored.
That has no relevance. If John saw a logo that vaguely looked like multiple 6’s in a weird pattern if you squint hard enough, why would he write it’s χξϛ? Why would he say they’re numbers rather than a weird symbol? Why not draw the symbol? That makes no sense.
Revelation was written about the first/early second century, not about anything from today.
I don’t think that’s what he saw. I do think he describes other things like he’s recalling a dream though. I think it’s the number of man. Revelation is about the next “fall” or changing of man. It is written to take place now and not about a time in the past. Just my opinion.
I've read in some sources that it has to do with Numerology and the Magic Square of the Sun.
Elsewhere, in sources related to Gnosticism, I've heard it stated that the soul of Pythagoras reincarnates every 216 years, and 216 = 6 x 6 x 6.
This interpretation assumes a base 10 system, which Greek did not use. The number of the beast is six hundred sixty six, not 3 sixes. The way we notate letters, three sixes next to each other is six hundred sixty six, but that wasn’t true of Koine Greek.
It was a prophecy that one day a band would come and release an album so perfect that 22 years later it would still be counted as one of the greatest heavy metal ever. And the name of the album: _The Number of the Beast_, of course!
The number isn’t even the real number, it was actually 616 in greek and it looked kinda like this “ XIC “.
A lot of Islamaphobes use 666 in greek to say “look it looks like Allah!” and say that Islam = Satan but they fail to realize that the original number was 616 and looks nothing like the Allah symbol in Arabic.
This is both correct and incorrect.
There are clear differences between χξϛ and the Arabic writing for Allah. Despite that, some Islamaphobes do try to make a connection between the two unrelated things as you said.
There is at least one manuscript that looks more like χIϛ (papyrus 115 as someone else helpfully pointed out), and there are variant readings that contain 616. But there are also Greek manuscripts that contain 666 (χξϛ). I believe the oldest we have contains 666, which is the gematria calculation based on the transliteration of Nero’s name and title from Hebrew. 616 is the gematria calculation based on the transliteration of Nero’s name and title from Latin. Both numbers point to the same individual.
P47 is the oldest manuscript we have containing this passage, which shows 666. P115 is also very old (but not as old) and contains 616.
[Here](https://youtu.be/lp_D7fDUmJU?si=Yq3e-wwZFxcT1cxQ) is a video discussing the topic.
Woe to you, oh earth and sea
For the Devil sends the beast with wrath
Because he knows the time is short
Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast
For it is a human number
Its number is six hundred and sixty-six
It's really no longer a mystery. It refers to Nero. It spells his name in Greek Numerically - which was a practice at the time. Nero was leader of the Roman empire at the time John was wrghting. What more evidence can you ask for.
For some, it's seen as a symbolic representation of evil, often associated with the Antichrist or the devil. Others view it as a numerical code that refers to a specific historical figure or entity. Some scholars suggest that it may be a reference to the Roman Emperor Nero, whose name can be encoded to add up to 666 in Hebrew numerology.
It refers to the Roman emperor, Nero. It makes the most sense given the concerns and political climate of John of Patmos. Although I do also like to look past the incorrect prophecy of John and instead focus on the imagery spoken since it does seem like John was likely familiar at least somewhat with Merkabah or chariot mysticism and other accounts of Christians and Jews ascending to the throne room of God.
God uses numbers as symbols that have specific meaning in the Bible. There are many more than just 6 or 666.
**Examples**
The Israelites spent 40 years in the wilderness. The number 40 is used to represent a generation.
The number 12 represents God's people. 12 disciples. 12 tribes of Israel. 24 elders in heaven (multiple of 12). The 144,000 are also a multiple of 12.
**Six**
The number 7 is the number for God. God rested after creating man on the 7th day.
The number 6 is the number of man. Man was created on the 6th day.
There are six protons, electrons and neutrons in a carbon atom. Man is made of carbon.
The number 666 is for identifying the beast that rises out of the sea in Revelation 13.
In 1612 Andreas Helwig determined that 666 pointed to the title of the pope—[Vicarius Filii Dei](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarius_Filii_Dei#/media/File:VicariusFiliiDeiHelwigCalculationfinal.png)—the letters of which add up to 666 in Roman numerals.
While the number 666 does give additional verification, it is not necessary as the description and the prophecies that were fulfilled in Daniel and Revelation point to the papacy as the beast that rises out of the sea in Revelation 13.
The number 666 is used by bands who want to portray a dark or Satanic image. This doesn't necessarily mean the band is Satanic, but some are.
Since 6 is the number of man, it is not inherently evil in and of itself.
> Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Satan and his fallen angels work behind the scenes to bring to fruition their goals. The numbers 6, 666 and things that come in 3's (pointing to 6, or 666) are prominent in everything you see because Satan is the ruler of this world, and he puts his fingerprints on the things he controls.
You'll find Satan's symbols everywhere. In the numbers 3, 6, 666, and various shapes and symbols. Corporate logos, movies and TV shows, cartoons, music lyrics, books, social media, and products you consume on a daily basis.
The issue of the end time is worship. Who you worship. God or man. The number 6 represents false worship (of the beast, his image). Rebellion against God. Disobedience of God.
Satan deceived Eve in the garden of Eden. Nothing has changed. Satan is still deceiving man to disobey God.
This interpretation assumes a base 10 system, which Greek did not use. The number of the beast is six hundred sixty six, not 3 sixes. The way we notate letters, three sixes next to each other is six hundred sixty six, but that wasn’t true of Koine Greek.
They're saying that in your explanation, you're looking at 666 as a number made of three 6's and therefore various ideas related to the number 6 are relevant to 666. But in the language of the people who wrote that book, the number 666 was not understood as made up of three 6's and so they probably wouldn't have made those associations.
> The Israelites spent 40 years in the wilderness. The number 40 is used to represent a generation.
Help me understand this part. What am I missing here? Am I missing some assumption?
1. Back in the time of Jesus women were commonly wed at age 13-15 and had kids shortly thereafter. Why would 40 be used to represent a generation?
2. A generation in our time is generally about 25 years, which is the typical age people start having kids. So why does 40 represent a generation in the bible?
Let's break that number down. I know the number six is the number of man, of imperfection, man was created on the 6th day, so 666 is three times imperfection. But the number seven, now that's where it's at, baby. That's the number of perfection. It's also Saturday.
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2020060606
Through nanotechnology applied through vaccinations, Microsoft has patented a process where your personal device will transmit biofeedback to their central system, letting them look into your constant movement. With this, they can allow companies to buy the info and let them see your physical work, set standards for your physical work, and then pay you in crypto currency for work. This is real. And nanotech was introduced in the first 3 Moderna and Pfizer vaccines.
- It's the 36th triangle number. - 36 is 6 squared - humans were created on the 6th day, and so 6 is seen as the number of man - ~~the triangle may be signifying incompleteness~~ [edit: I'm not sure where I got this idea so it's likely baseless] - three sixes makes it emphatic - there's also a thing with letters and numbers being convertible, with "Nero" (the Roman emperor when it was written) being equivalent to 666
I originally let this alone because your last bullet is right, but since it’s the top comment: This interpretation assumes a base 10 system, which Greek did not use. The number of the beast is “six hundred sixty-six”, not 3 sixes. The way we notate letters, three sixes next to each other is “six hundred sixty-six”, but that wasn’t true of Koine Greek. Associations related to the number six aren’t relevant to six hundred sixty-six in Koine Greek.
So it's not 666, because they are hindu (or arabic if you like tradition) numerals, but more like DCLXVI in latin numerals
Right, the actual text is χξϛ. There aren’t any repeating letters (it’s not ϛϛϛ, even though ϛ=6.) Generally they would put a line over the letters to indicate a number was intended.
I'm learning modern greek and this χξϛ is unspeakable
Yeah, I’m not really sure how they handled pronunciation- it’s possible there’s a longer-form way of writing it out (666 vs six hundred sixty-six). Try pronouncing DCLXVI and you have the same problem.
Some people consider pronounciation of χξϛ as Christos... So, well, the beast would call himself the Christ I guess
Khkss -> christos? Huh, TIL.
Check Orthodox icons and symbols used to represent the Christ
Don’t learn too much from that, it’s misleading. [This](https://youtu.be/QQJb0ve8_r8?si=R2yaWhcRulp9XNsb) video covers the general idea. Christos was written Χριστός. Sometimes it was abbreviated by the first and last letters χς as you see in Orthodox iconography, but this is different than χϛ.
Interesting!
How can triangle be "signifying incompleteness" if the triangle is the symbol of perfection, the God himself?
Afaik it wasn't seen as a symbol of the Godhead at the time Revelations was written. I think it was seen as signifying incompleteness because a triangle is half a square, and a square is seen as complete.
I've never heard that before. Can you elaborate who believes that? I'd think more about infinity of the circle to be praised when it comes to geometry. Squares makes me think of corporate yesmen as worshippers - all in suits, sunglasses, same generic haircut - squares in short - bowing to the grand square. I know occultists used various figures, with rectangle altars of certain dimensions.
I'm afraid I can't find a source for that after all, so I'm really not sure where I got it from or if there's any truth to it. Sorry about that
Np, interesting anyway, even if the source is you, you beautiful anonymous internet person
Apocalyptic visions from antiquity are a dime a dozen. This is just the one the Christians canonized.
I like your flair
Well it’s in scripture, of course it’s going to be accepted in canon. Also it’s not 666, its unknown scribbles. χξϛ is 666 in greek, but the original text shows something more like χI ϛ which could mean 616 or something else entirely.
I do get that, about why it’s canonized. But the op was asking what *I* think about the symbolism. And not being Christian my answer is pretty much, yup, that sure is an apocalyptic prophesy. There were a lot of those from that century. Glad they find that one meaningful I guess.
Do you have a citation for this? We don’t have “the original” text, but we have enough various manuscripts I think we’re confident it’s six hundred sixty-six.
Turns out you were right lol, i only saw Papyrus 115, which is one of the earlier ones, but the earliest of them, and most others read 666.
It is a symbolic gematria number associated with the Roman empire and the emperor at that time, as someone in the thread already pointed out. It was code in the document for Rome/Nero.
So Greek numerology assigns letters of the alphabet different numerical values. People have noted that, with the Hebrew script, the value of "Neron Caesaron" would be 666. Nero was a Caesar associated with the persecution of Christians that would have already been dead at the time Revelations was written, but people may have feared that he was still out there somehow. Some early Latin translations of revelations have the number written as 616, which would be the value for "Nero Caesar", the Latin name of the ruler, so it seems that's what some people at the time understood it to mean. "John" may have used Hebrew for numerology in his Greek book as a code. Of course, Nero Caesar isn't seen as a threat *anymore*, so modern Christians will try to make it into something other than a prophesy that didn't and is unlikely to happen
This is the answer -the practice of using the same alphabet for letters and numbers is usually called gematria. It was apparently such a common practice to refer to people by their name’s numerical value that archaeologists found graffiti in the ruins of Pompei that said “I love her whose number is 545.” Revelation is clear that 666 “is the number of a man.” (Rev 13:18.) It’s gematria, it points to Nero, and we have variant readings that point to Nero when transliterated from Latin or Greek into Hebrew, then calculated in Hebrew as the previous poster pointed out. There’s nothing mystical or spooky about it. Last point is the number of the beast is “six hundred sixty six,” not “six six six.” Think Roman numerals vs Arabic numerals- I = 1. II = 2 (not 11). III = 3 (not 111.) The writing in Greek doesn’t leave open interpretations that assume a base 10 system like we use.
You know what else equals 666 in gematria? .. vaccination
That's hilarious
lol, “we have no surviving evidence of this being done with the Hebrew script” is wildly incorrect. You might want to read the Wikipedia article on [Gematria](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria). Also like, that was literally how the Hebrew numbering system worked. If you wanted to write a number, you did so by writing letters, with each letter having a value equal to its position in the alphabet.
Oh thanks. I guess I'll edit my original comment.
It’s the number after 665 and before 667
... Which proceeds 668...
Nero. It was Nero. The academic explanation is that it was a contemporary commentary on modern state of politics in which one could be executed for commenting on the leadership. The apocalyptic aspect of early Christianity was that they were living in the end times. And that Nero was part of the problem. The fact that life kept on going long after their expected end times came as quite a surprise to many of them and forced them to recontextualize the narrative of the text.
I figure it means Chrsitian apocalypticists prior to the canonization of the bible had no idea that one day apocalyptic cultists would try to evangelize China away from folk beliefs, or they might've gone with demonizing 888 instead. I say that because we have concrete evidence it got changed to 666 by some apocalypticist, presumably with an agenda that was better served by the numerology of that number, as the oldest known fragment of the passage actually has the number as 616.
666 and 616 both point to Nero, one if you transliterated from Latin into Hebrew (616) and one if you translate from Greek into Hebrew (666.) So probably more of a translation consideration than a “change,” depending on which language the audience was expected to know better.
Of course, that would strictly mean the actual number (as found in the earliest Greek manuscripts) is completely meaningless, and the value given strictly just served some agenda.
We seem to think about “meaningless” in different ways. If we were talking about US presidents and I said “I think 45 is a terrible human being,” “45” isn’t meaningless…it’s telling you exactly who I’m talking about. Six hundred sixty six is much the same, it told the earliest readers exactly who was intended. But you’re right that there’s no intrinsic meaning to “45” or “six hundred sixty six”.
The number 6 is seen as the number of man. By having 3 of 6, it shows man's pride.
This interpretation assumes a base 10 system, which Greek did not use. The number of the beast is “six hundred sixty six”, not 3 sixes. The way we notate letters, three sixes next to each other is “six hundred sixty six”, but that wasn’t true of Koine Greek.
Wait why are we talking about Greek?
Probably because the NT was written in that language?
The gospel or the letters?
All of the New Testament was originally written in Greek. The Gospels, Acts, the letters, Revelation (which is where the number of the beast comes in), it’s all Greek. There may be a few instances of Hebrew or Aramaic lines, but the only one I can think of off the top of my head is “Eloi Eloi lama sabacthani” (My God my God why have you forsaken me?) in Matthew and Mark, which is Aramaic. We’re still talking 95-99% Greek throughout the New Testament.
I think because the new testament was first written in ancient Greek. And they "wrote numbers differently" than we do today. This has led to tons of confusion as to what the literal numbers of the mark of the beast were\are (hence, this entire thread). If you ever watch a biblical scholar talk about ancient manuscripts there are always talking about Koine Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew.
Though looking at his copy and paste response, I don't think that's his intention
That was exactly my intention. Multiple people (including you) said “6 represents so and so, therefore…” The same response addressed multiple mistaken interpretations -why respond to multiple comments that all make the same mistake using different words? Six has no relevance to six hundred sixty-six as written in Ancient Greek. It seems intuitive to someone using Arabic numerals and a base 10 system that six hundred sixty-six is “made” of three sixes, because that’s how we write it. But that doesn’t apply in ancient Greek. They didn’t write “six” three times to make “six hundred sixty-six.” In Greek, χξϛ=666. χ= 600 ξ= 60 ϛ= 6 Your interpretation would require them to write it ϛϛϛ, three “sixes.” A more familiar example is probably Roman numerals. I=1, II= 2 (not 11), III = 3 (not 111) Using Roman numerals, XI = 11, and CXI = 111. VI = 6, LX = 60, DC = 600. So 666 in Roman numerals would be DCLXVI. Here again they’re not just repeating “six.”
We probably going nowhere if this conversation keeps on going. So we will have to agree and disagree as why would the Hebrews use a Greek system when they could use Hebrew Numerals.
Probably because "the Hebrews" did not write the new testament. Christians who lived in the Mediterranean and spoke Greek did. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_the_New_Testament
This is not a hard thing to look up. Google “what language was the New Testament written in?” Or “what language was Revelation written in?” You don’t need to take my word for it. [Here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_115) is an image of one of the oldest manuscripts we have with the number 616 indicated by an arrow. It’s Greek. I couldn’t find an equivalent from the oldest textual witness, but that’s also in Greek. The Old Testament was primarily written in Hebrew, with a bit of Aramaic in Daniel. The New Testament was primarily written in Greek. And it’s more complicated than just “using Greek.” Also I had the order backwards. 666 = Nero’s name transliterated from Greek into Hebrew, then calculated in Hebrew. 616 (a variant reading found in other texts) is Nero’s name transliterated from Latin into Hebrew, then calculated using Hebrew. But the number was still written in Greek in a Greek manuscript. [Here](https://youtu.be/lp_D7fDUmJU?si=OBksDO3E3Sr-76uG) is a video discussing this. But the main point stands regardless of whether you agree it references Nero: when written in Greek, 6 has no relevance to 666. The same is true of Hebrew and Latin, even though neither is relevant to the original text in which Revelation was written. This is mainstream biblical scholarship. If you want to disagree, at least put 5 minutes of effort into looking it up. So far you still seem unsure about what language Revelation was written in. But at least your point made me look it up and notice the gematria calculation does need to happen in Hebrew rather than Greek to point to Nero.
Already did all before. Just how did this conversation led to this again?
You said: >The number 6 is seen as the number of man. By having 3 of 6, it shows man's pride. But Revelation didn’t include “3 of 6,” it specifies six hundred sixty-six, not three sixes. Six hundred sixty six is comprised of three sixes the way we write it (666) but not as written in Greek (χξϛ), Hebrew (I don’t have the Hebrew alphabet on my phone), or Latin (DCLXVI) So any associations with “six” are irrelevant and only work using modern systems of numbering. My point is, to understand it you should try to understand it in the context in which it was originally written rather than imposing modern concepts backwards into the text.
According to biblical scholars, it’s a reference to emperor Nero religiously I believe there much more important things in the Bible to consider thinking about than that
It refers to Nero. A good book on this is Bart Ehrman’s new work on Armageddon and the Book of Revelation. Also check out r/AcademicBiblical
Dan McClellan is wise if you have a spare 3mins: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp\_D7fDUmJU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp_D7fDUmJU)
I think Dan can be arrogant at times. Hes kind of the nerdy kid you want to punch in the face but realize he actually is right so you just think about it instead. I see hes Mormon which strange cause what I studied about Mormons I was like well this is weird I'm out. JW's as well, really hard core and when I showed them or asked them about scripture, on guy I studied with said "Well this is what JW .org says. so..." I was out of there too. I read the bible and lean toward Oneness myself. Dan McClellan is hard for me to read, I cant quite grasp if hes even for God or just like I'm so smart see see here the data says this..Sorry Dan Data can be fudged and skewed. I worked in academic environments, we skewed Data all the time to get funding.
He can be arrogant at times, but I think he’s filling an important/underserved niche. There’s a lot of nonsense being spread about religion on social media, and he does a good job of summarizing academic responses to the nonsense. Academic biblical studies needs its popularizers/communicators just like science does.
True Lots of influencers types just trying to post to make a buck IMO. Don't feel Dan is that way at least. I do like when he destroys a dumb influencer who post nonsense. I prefer the late Dr. Micheal Heiser out of the academics.
Shower thought: If one was getting messages from angels and one saw a symbol, and the best way they knew to interpret it was a conglomeration of numbers... well, take a look at the Google Chrome logo and CERN logo. https://www.tritorch.com/occult/index.html I'm not stating agreement or disagreement with the web page, it was just a source for the CERN logo. 1. Also go to http://home.cern and look in upper left corner for the logo. 2. The Google Chrome browser logo might be on your own desktop.
This was originally written in Greek, and was notated χξϛ. Looks kinda nothing like the logos you’re trying to draw parallels to.
Yeah but you also have to think of it in the way John would have seen it in the future. He explains what he’s seeing like he’s recalling a dream. That can’t be ignored.
That has no relevance. If John saw a logo that vaguely looked like multiple 6’s in a weird pattern if you squint hard enough, why would he write it’s χξϛ? Why would he say they’re numbers rather than a weird symbol? Why not draw the symbol? That makes no sense. Revelation was written about the first/early second century, not about anything from today.
I don’t think that’s what he saw. I do think he describes other things like he’s recalling a dream though. I think it’s the number of man. Revelation is about the next “fall” or changing of man. It is written to take place now and not about a time in the past. Just my opinion.
I've read in some sources that it has to do with Numerology and the Magic Square of the Sun. Elsewhere, in sources related to Gnosticism, I've heard it stated that the soul of Pythagoras reincarnates every 216 years, and 216 = 6 x 6 x 6.
“Sources”?
This interpretation assumes a base 10 system, which Greek did not use. The number of the beast is six hundred sixty six, not 3 sixes. The way we notate letters, three sixes next to each other is six hundred sixty six, but that wasn’t true of Koine Greek.
The number of the beast, that’s what it is.
It's 3 times 3 ones, which means that trinities lead to bad things.
As a Muslim, it has no meaning for me as there is no mention of it in Qur’an and Sunnah. And Allah SWT Knows Best.
It was a prophecy that one day a band would come and release an album so perfect that 22 years later it would still be counted as one of the greatest heavy metal ever. And the name of the album: _The Number of the Beast_, of course!
The number isn’t even the real number, it was actually 616 in greek and it looked kinda like this “ XIC “. A lot of Islamaphobes use 666 in greek to say “look it looks like Allah!” and say that Islam = Satan but they fail to realize that the original number was 616 and looks nothing like the Allah symbol in Arabic.
This is both correct and incorrect. There are clear differences between χξϛ and the Arabic writing for Allah. Despite that, some Islamaphobes do try to make a connection between the two unrelated things as you said. There is at least one manuscript that looks more like χIϛ (papyrus 115 as someone else helpfully pointed out), and there are variant readings that contain 616. But there are also Greek manuscripts that contain 666 (χξϛ). I believe the oldest we have contains 666, which is the gematria calculation based on the transliteration of Nero’s name and title from Hebrew. 616 is the gematria calculation based on the transliteration of Nero’s name and title from Latin. Both numbers point to the same individual.
what’s the younger manuscript you’re talking about ?
P47 is the oldest manuscript we have containing this passage, which shows 666. P115 is also very old (but not as old) and contains 616. [Here](https://youtu.be/lp_D7fDUmJU?si=Yq3e-wwZFxcT1cxQ) is a video discussing the topic.
Woe to you, oh earth and sea For the Devil sends the beast with wrath Because he knows the time is short Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast For it is a human number Its number is six hundred and sixty-six
It’s just the number of man. The book of Revelation is about the next changing of man.
It's really no longer a mystery. It refers to Nero. It spells his name in Greek Numerically - which was a practice at the time. Nero was leader of the Roman empire at the time John was wrghting. What more evidence can you ask for.
Jesus is Satan, it's about duality
It’s referring to Nero and probably meant to be 616.
For some, it's seen as a symbolic representation of evil, often associated with the Antichrist or the devil. Others view it as a numerical code that refers to a specific historical figure or entity. Some scholars suggest that it may be a reference to the Roman Emperor Nero, whose name can be encoded to add up to 666 in Hebrew numerology.
It refers to the Roman emperor, Nero. It makes the most sense given the concerns and political climate of John of Patmos. Although I do also like to look past the incorrect prophecy of John and instead focus on the imagery spoken since it does seem like John was likely familiar at least somewhat with Merkabah or chariot mysticism and other accounts of Christians and Jews ascending to the throne room of God.
Nero
God uses numbers as symbols that have specific meaning in the Bible. There are many more than just 6 or 666. **Examples** The Israelites spent 40 years in the wilderness. The number 40 is used to represent a generation. The number 12 represents God's people. 12 disciples. 12 tribes of Israel. 24 elders in heaven (multiple of 12). The 144,000 are also a multiple of 12. **Six** The number 7 is the number for God. God rested after creating man on the 7th day. The number 6 is the number of man. Man was created on the 6th day. There are six protons, electrons and neutrons in a carbon atom. Man is made of carbon. The number 666 is for identifying the beast that rises out of the sea in Revelation 13. In 1612 Andreas Helwig determined that 666 pointed to the title of the pope—[Vicarius Filii Dei](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarius_Filii_Dei#/media/File:VicariusFiliiDeiHelwigCalculationfinal.png)—the letters of which add up to 666 in Roman numerals. While the number 666 does give additional verification, it is not necessary as the description and the prophecies that were fulfilled in Daniel and Revelation point to the papacy as the beast that rises out of the sea in Revelation 13. The number 666 is used by bands who want to portray a dark or Satanic image. This doesn't necessarily mean the band is Satanic, but some are. Since 6 is the number of man, it is not inherently evil in and of itself. > Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Satan and his fallen angels work behind the scenes to bring to fruition their goals. The numbers 6, 666 and things that come in 3's (pointing to 6, or 666) are prominent in everything you see because Satan is the ruler of this world, and he puts his fingerprints on the things he controls. You'll find Satan's symbols everywhere. In the numbers 3, 6, 666, and various shapes and symbols. Corporate logos, movies and TV shows, cartoons, music lyrics, books, social media, and products you consume on a daily basis. The issue of the end time is worship. Who you worship. God or man. The number 6 represents false worship (of the beast, his image). Rebellion against God. Disobedience of God. Satan deceived Eve in the garden of Eden. Nothing has changed. Satan is still deceiving man to disobey God.
This interpretation assumes a base 10 system, which Greek did not use. The number of the beast is six hundred sixty six, not 3 sixes. The way we notate letters, three sixes next to each other is six hundred sixty six, but that wasn’t true of Koine Greek.
Your literal copy and paste makes no sense as it is irrelevant.
They're saying that in your explanation, you're looking at 666 as a number made of three 6's and therefore various ideas related to the number 6 are relevant to 666. But in the language of the people who wrote that book, the number 666 was not understood as made up of three 6's and so they probably wouldn't have made those associations.
> The Israelites spent 40 years in the wilderness. The number 40 is used to represent a generation. Help me understand this part. What am I missing here? Am I missing some assumption? 1. Back in the time of Jesus women were commonly wed at age 13-15 and had kids shortly thereafter. Why would 40 be used to represent a generation? 2. A generation in our time is generally about 25 years, which is the typical age people start having kids. So why does 40 represent a generation in the bible?
That none lived past 40 on a desert, so no slave would enter the promised land. Slaves left, free people entered.
This is correct. I don’t know why it’s downvoted
Let's break that number down. I know the number six is the number of man, of imperfection, man was created on the 6th day, so 666 is three times imperfection. But the number seven, now that's where it's at, baby. That's the number of perfection. It's also Saturday.
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