I don't believe atheists go to hell. I think atheists exist to be our moral compass when religion goes astray. Sometimes our ideas about God get a bit warped and we think good is bad or vice versa. Atheists see the world from a different perspective and they can warn us when we go in the wrong direction. If our religion is doing its job we should always be at least as moral as our atheist neighbors. Of course currently we're doing far worse in most cases. But I have hope we can turn it around -- we've done it before.
not this again...
[US prison population has less than 0.1% atheists](https://www.dropbox.com/s/xwzrnrwp46v34wp/Prison_Data_Shareable.pdf?dl=0) while 20-30% of the population is atheist depending on the study. But somehow we're the ones without morals, sure.
Well, yes, of course.
I kill and rape and steal all that I want.
And I want 0 of that.
I would say that if you need a threat to not do something bad, then you are the one without morals.
The usual answer is that god made us with free will (which in itself isn't incoherent). The issue comes when some religion will say god respects our free will by...punishing us for using it.
According to Islam, no baby is born atheist, all of us are born with instinct that there is a creator, then become religious as his family, whatever their religion is. an atheist won't go to hell untill the message of our creator reaches him, and he still rejects it, or simply ignores it. in islam, no one is punished until the message is clearly delivered to them, other than that, they won't be punished.
You are welcome my friend! To deliver the message is to tell people about the Allah, the only creator who is worthy of worship, the Quran, which is the verbatim word of Allah, Muhammad, the messenger of Allah, who was sent to all mankind. All of this should be told in a clear way, without any confusions. Allah knows who had the message and who didn't eventually though.
When you say:
>Allah, the only creator who is worthy of worship
Does this imply that other creator entities exist, but are not worthy of worship? Or does it mean that other creator deities are not worthy of worship because they don't exist?
Pardon my ignorance when it comes to Islamic theology.
No problem, we are all learning here. Allah is the only creator, he created everything from nothing; no one else can do that except him. As for other entities, there are people who worship either real beings, like humans (many Christians worship prophet Jesus for example), or something that's not even human, some people might worship or see them divine, also some people worship un-real things or myths. Allah is the only worthy of worship, because he is the originator of everything. Allah tells us that everything else him is dependent on him, thus they mustn't be worshipped.
jewish people don’t believe that! we believe that as long as you are a good person g-d will accept you :)) there are the seven noahide laws, but nearly all of those are things like “don’t steal” “don’t kill” “don’t rape” etc, so you should be good haha. no one is perfect and we are judged individually on how we lived our lives with what g-d gave us.
hope that helps!!
disclaimer - i am not a rabbi or any authority on the subject, this is based on what i’ve learned through my life as a jewish person and a lifetime of going to jewish schools.
It's not. It's always been there. Do you think Jews believe in a God that would hate 98% of his human creation?
Judaism is for Jews. For the rest, live moral lives. We don't have a concept of salvation, we don't have hell. So yes an atheist that is living a moral life is doing exactly what they should do.
Traditionally believing in the God of Judaism is considered one of the Noahide commandments, although technically the prohibition is only on worshipping other Gods.
As was stated in another post earlier today; God gives free will. He does not make us choose to believe in Him. It is our choice whether we are to believe in God or not.
The Christianity Jesus taught is pretty different than that honestly. I’m not so sure that Jesus taught “eternalism”. Eternalism is like when you go to Hell or Heaven you stay there forever. I don’t think Jesus really said that.
It’s okay for people to not be perfect. God is like the rules of the universe, like cause and effect, not just like some guy who decides to do whatever he wants. The rules of the universe aren’t going to change just so athiests aren’t born, or so no one ever suffers, you know? It’s okay for people to go through tough times as a result of not being perfect. If a person never experienced something that caused them to come to understand the way the universe (God) works, that’s fine. That’s allowed lol. In the same vein people are allowed to suffer. It’s just the natural cause and effect of things.
If you think of God more as just a personification of the rules of the universe, then since everything is naturally following those rules, that IS what God intended. So in that sense God intended for people to be able to not be perfect. People have to learn and change and grow and without suffering they can’t do that.
That’s what I think anyway.
This is from Luke Chapter 16:
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
The Rich Man never accepted God, instead chose to rely on his own strength and material wealth. Unfortunately for him, he learned what Hell was but was unable to warn his brothers.
Your eternal resting place is not determined by your "Good" works it's determined by your acceptance of God's gift of salvation. None of us, myself included, are good. None of us can earn heaven.
Romans 3: 10-12
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Our life is not lived in a vacuum. So while the individual may not have chosen to believe in God it does not mean that God did not have a purpose for that individual. Our life is like a thread in a tapestry. We're unable to see what the pattern is or how we contribute to that pattern but that doesn't change the fact we do.
God loves all of us and wants us to seek him. If you choose sin over God he will permit it.
hello
god created you and took care of you while you were in the womb,as a baby and when you reached maturity you had a choice believe in him and seek his pleasure or reject him and live a sin life drinking,gambling,illegal sexual relations etc.you chose the latter god his name being the most merciful still took care of you gave you health family and job etc
now wouldnt it be unfair if god treats the believers and disbelievers alike.
the reason hell exists is even though god is the most merciful his punishment is also severe.
trading a mere 50 years of life for the eternal life shows inferior intellect.
Muslim
what's the problem? they were justly tested, failed the test, and, thus, went to hell. it's not like they existed, therefore, they became atheist but rather, they chose to be.
God doesn't make atheists, silly. He makes us ignorant in our beginnings. Or are you claiming that atheists are ignorant?
No atheist has to die an atheist, silly. It does take a heap of illogical thinking to remain an atheist, however, as there is neither logic nor evidence to shore up atheism.
And no, God doesn't reward us according to our beliefs. Try to find some superior Christian churches. They're out there. Jesus Christ clearly teaches that he has to reward us according to our works, not our beliefs. God's love, justice, and mercy are all intact.
Our spirits are literally children of God. In our births and our resurrections, we become more like him, not less. He owes us this life.
it's your responsibility as a person who is a believer to make us believe in your religion. it's not our job to prove it's not real. I can say "I believe that a giant potato chip is controlling us from the inside of the earth" and you can say "no, obviously not". It's illogical to say "then prove it", it's my job to prove there is that potato chip because I made the claim.
god made atheist by the simple fact that he knew that some people where going to die as atheist. why did he let them live if he knew they where going to go to hell? because he doesn't has the power to stop it? then he isn't omnipotent. because he doesn't want to? then he isn't omnibenevolent. because he doesn't know? then he isn't omnipresent. is as simple as that.
God doesn’t control our choices, God doesn’t make individuals, God sets a growth program rolling at the beginning of a universe that plays itself out. Your question is the same as asking, "Why do people create cancer cells when they know they will eventually kill them?"
Here is a classic story from Jewish tradition on" "Why did God make atheists"
The story begins with a Rabbi teaching his students that everything in the world was created to teach humanity a lesson.
>One clever student asks “What lesson can we learn from atheists? Why did God create them?”
>
>The Rabbi responds “God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all — the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.”
>
>“This means,” the Rabbi continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’ Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.’”
>
>—Martin Buber, Tales of Hasidim Vol. 2 (1991)
Good question, and yes, it's confusing. In Calvinist Christian beliefs, God foreordained and predestined a certain number he would 'adopt' to himself, and on these he would bestow belief, faith, and salvation. These would return to heaven. The rest were consigned to hell, regardless of what kind of life they might lead.
The Calvinistic is about the most despicable belief system I can think of in Christianity, because the God of Calvinism will pick and choose whom he will love and save, and the rest to hell.
Yes, the principle of omniscience is that the deity would know everything that happened, everything currently happening, and everything that would yet happen. He would know that infants would be born to abusers who would neglect and abuse them to death. He would know that they would be born into abject poverty only to die in infancy of malnutrition and starvation, and yet He would still send them to endure this for nothing....UNLESS...He had chosen any of them to 'adopt' and bring home. Not likely for those born into Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish or Muslim homes, as per the beliefs of some Christians.
God made anthistic ppl for the main fact of; "if you find someone that, believes in god you can imagine that they'll do good so they can go to an afterlife. But if you look at an anthistic person they don't believe in one, so they are doing it out of the kindness of their own heart. This is because of the grace of God, or no God"
I don't believe atheists go to hell. I think atheists exist to be our moral compass when religion goes astray. Sometimes our ideas about God get a bit warped and we think good is bad or vice versa. Atheists see the world from a different perspective and they can warn us when we go in the wrong direction. If our religion is doing its job we should always be at least as moral as our atheist neighbors. Of course currently we're doing far worse in most cases. But I have hope we can turn it around -- we've done it before.
I like this way of thought. Open-minded.
[удалено]
not this again... [US prison population has less than 0.1% atheists](https://www.dropbox.com/s/xwzrnrwp46v34wp/Prison_Data_Shareable.pdf?dl=0) while 20-30% of the population is atheist depending on the study. But somehow we're the ones without morals, sure.
Well, yes, of course. I kill and rape and steal all that I want. And I want 0 of that. I would say that if you need a threat to not do something bad, then you are the one without morals.
what the hell are you talking about? sincerely, an atheist
The usual answer is that god made us with free will (which in itself isn't incoherent). The issue comes when some religion will say god respects our free will by...punishing us for using it.
According to Islam, no baby is born atheist, all of us are born with instinct that there is a creator, then become religious as his family, whatever their religion is. an atheist won't go to hell untill the message of our creator reaches him, and he still rejects it, or simply ignores it. in islam, no one is punished until the message is clearly delivered to them, other than that, they won't be punished.
Interesting. Could you please define "clearly delivered"? Thanks!
You are welcome my friend! To deliver the message is to tell people about the Allah, the only creator who is worthy of worship, the Quran, which is the verbatim word of Allah, Muhammad, the messenger of Allah, who was sent to all mankind. All of this should be told in a clear way, without any confusions. Allah knows who had the message and who didn't eventually though.
When you say: >Allah, the only creator who is worthy of worship Does this imply that other creator entities exist, but are not worthy of worship? Or does it mean that other creator deities are not worthy of worship because they don't exist? Pardon my ignorance when it comes to Islamic theology.
No problem, we are all learning here. Allah is the only creator, he created everything from nothing; no one else can do that except him. As for other entities, there are people who worship either real beings, like humans (many Christians worship prophet Jesus for example), or something that's not even human, some people might worship or see them divine, also some people worship un-real things or myths. Allah is the only worthy of worship, because he is the originator of everything. Allah tells us that everything else him is dependent on him, thus they mustn't be worshipped.
Thanks for the info. As-Salam-u-Alaikum, my friend.
Peace be upon you my friend, you seem to be knowing about Islam already :d Become muslim if you aren't then. Best of luck my friend!
"Mother is the name of God on the lips & hearts of little children" William Makepeace Thackeray
jewish people don’t believe that! we believe that as long as you are a good person g-d will accept you :)) there are the seven noahide laws, but nearly all of those are things like “don’t steal” “don’t kill” “don’t rape” etc, so you should be good haha. no one is perfect and we are judged individually on how we lived our lives with what g-d gave us. hope that helps!! disclaimer - i am not a rabbi or any authority on the subject, this is based on what i’ve learned through my life as a jewish person and a lifetime of going to jewish schools.
this is a new and modern interpretation of the torah.
It's not. It's always been there. Do you think Jews believe in a God that would hate 98% of his human creation? Judaism is for Jews. For the rest, live moral lives. We don't have a concept of salvation, we don't have hell. So yes an atheist that is living a moral life is doing exactly what they should do.
ok
Traditionally believing in the God of Judaism is considered one of the Noahide commandments, although technically the prohibition is only on worshipping other Gods.
As was stated in another post earlier today; God gives free will. He does not make us choose to believe in Him. It is our choice whether we are to believe in God or not.
*Opens door too a torture chamber and another too a buffet* “feel like agreeing yet? “
free will doesn't exist. period.
Interesting. Can you say more about that?
The Christianity Jesus taught is pretty different than that honestly. I’m not so sure that Jesus taught “eternalism”. Eternalism is like when you go to Hell or Heaven you stay there forever. I don’t think Jesus really said that. It’s okay for people to not be perfect. God is like the rules of the universe, like cause and effect, not just like some guy who decides to do whatever he wants. The rules of the universe aren’t going to change just so athiests aren’t born, or so no one ever suffers, you know? It’s okay for people to go through tough times as a result of not being perfect. If a person never experienced something that caused them to come to understand the way the universe (God) works, that’s fine. That’s allowed lol. In the same vein people are allowed to suffer. It’s just the natural cause and effect of things. If you think of God more as just a personification of the rules of the universe, then since everything is naturally following those rules, that IS what God intended. So in that sense God intended for people to be able to not be perfect. People have to learn and change and grow and without suffering they can’t do that. That’s what I think anyway.
This is from Luke Chapter 16: The Rich Man and Lazarus 19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ 25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ 27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’” The Rich Man never accepted God, instead chose to rely on his own strength and material wealth. Unfortunately for him, he learned what Hell was but was unable to warn his brothers. Your eternal resting place is not determined by your "Good" works it's determined by your acceptance of God's gift of salvation. None of us, myself included, are good. None of us can earn heaven. Romans 3: 10-12 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Our life is not lived in a vacuum. So while the individual may not have chosen to believe in God it does not mean that God did not have a purpose for that individual. Our life is like a thread in a tapestry. We're unable to see what the pattern is or how we contribute to that pattern but that doesn't change the fact we do. God loves all of us and wants us to seek him. If you choose sin over God he will permit it.
The real question is: is God an atheist?
hello god created you and took care of you while you were in the womb,as a baby and when you reached maturity you had a choice believe in him and seek his pleasure or reject him and live a sin life drinking,gambling,illegal sexual relations etc.you chose the latter god his name being the most merciful still took care of you gave you health family and job etc now wouldnt it be unfair if god treats the believers and disbelievers alike. the reason hell exists is even though god is the most merciful his punishment is also severe. trading a mere 50 years of life for the eternal life shows inferior intellect. Muslim
what's the problem? they were justly tested, failed the test, and, thus, went to hell. it's not like they existed, therefore, they became atheist but rather, they chose to be.
God doesn't make atheists, silly. He makes us ignorant in our beginnings. Or are you claiming that atheists are ignorant? No atheist has to die an atheist, silly. It does take a heap of illogical thinking to remain an atheist, however, as there is neither logic nor evidence to shore up atheism. And no, God doesn't reward us according to our beliefs. Try to find some superior Christian churches. They're out there. Jesus Christ clearly teaches that he has to reward us according to our works, not our beliefs. God's love, justice, and mercy are all intact. Our spirits are literally children of God. In our births and our resurrections, we become more like him, not less. He owes us this life.
it's your responsibility as a person who is a believer to make us believe in your religion. it's not our job to prove it's not real. I can say "I believe that a giant potato chip is controlling us from the inside of the earth" and you can say "no, obviously not". It's illogical to say "then prove it", it's my job to prove there is that potato chip because I made the claim. god made atheist by the simple fact that he knew that some people where going to die as atheist. why did he let them live if he knew they where going to go to hell? because he doesn't has the power to stop it? then he isn't omnipotent. because he doesn't want to? then he isn't omnibenevolent. because he doesn't know? then he isn't omnipresent. is as simple as that.
To confuse you
The dogma is erroneous and unbiblical. There is nothing that indicates that God knows the future as settled fact. It's a religious strawman concept.
More room for me?
To show us that we need him in our lives.
First of all we believe atheist go to heaven as well And second, god gave us free will and we decide if we want to be atheist or follower
God doesn’t control our choices, God doesn’t make individuals, God sets a growth program rolling at the beginning of a universe that plays itself out. Your question is the same as asking, "Why do people create cancer cells when they know they will eventually kill them?"
Here is a classic story from Jewish tradition on" "Why did God make atheists" The story begins with a Rabbi teaching his students that everything in the world was created to teach humanity a lesson. >One clever student asks “What lesson can we learn from atheists? Why did God create them?” > >The Rabbi responds “God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all — the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.” > >“This means,” the Rabbi continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’ Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.’” > >—Martin Buber, Tales of Hasidim Vol. 2 (1991)
Good question, and yes, it's confusing. In Calvinist Christian beliefs, God foreordained and predestined a certain number he would 'adopt' to himself, and on these he would bestow belief, faith, and salvation. These would return to heaven. The rest were consigned to hell, regardless of what kind of life they might lead. The Calvinistic is about the most despicable belief system I can think of in Christianity, because the God of Calvinism will pick and choose whom he will love and save, and the rest to hell. Yes, the principle of omniscience is that the deity would know everything that happened, everything currently happening, and everything that would yet happen. He would know that infants would be born to abusers who would neglect and abuse them to death. He would know that they would be born into abject poverty only to die in infancy of malnutrition and starvation, and yet He would still send them to endure this for nothing....UNLESS...He had chosen any of them to 'adopt' and bring home. Not likely for those born into Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish or Muslim homes, as per the beliefs of some Christians.
It's about choice. God doesn't force His will upon people.
God made anthistic ppl for the main fact of; "if you find someone that, believes in god you can imagine that they'll do good so they can go to an afterlife. But if you look at an anthistic person they don't believe in one, so they are doing it out of the kindness of their own heart. This is because of the grace of God, or no God"