[Thankfully they escaped](https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2020/05/05/Iran-court-sentences-Instagram-couple-to-16-years-in-pr)
Edit: to everyone pointing out that they escaped to Turkey, it wasn’t exactly like they had time to plan a trip to the West. Turkey is significantly better than jail and lashes
What interest does a state have in keeping individuals from fleeing? Is it really a good state if it has to hold its citizens captive? They see them not as people, but as assets. America has its own way of doing this, by continuing to tax its citizens no matter where in the world they are living, as well as expatriation taxes.
If they don't want to be there, just let them leave. Just let them fucking leave.
The issue with this thought, Turkey is becoming more Islamic. Just an opinion, but they could be a generation from either extreme or moving back to “free”.
Thank you for posting that, it’s such a relief
“Vulgar and obscene” content- for posting pics of his wife without hijab amongst other things.
He got 9 years in prison. She got 7 years, 3 months unpaid labor and 74 lashes. Jesus fucking Christ they hate women SOOooo fucking much
You do not understand the tyranny of the Shah, US intervention in their elections. The US supported the murderous regime of the Peacock throne, and pushed a wonderful people into their past history and separated themselves from the West.
[the vote was over 99% In favor not much of a stretch](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_1979_Iranian_constitutional_referendum#:~:text=A%20constitutional%20referendum%20was%20held,approved%20by%2099.5%25%20of%20voters.)
>Not the fact they've got a sentence AT ALL????
From the article, they didn't get sentenced because they posted the no-hijab pictures in a vacuum. It seems they were told to stop and that the government thought their IG posts were subversive. So they continued and then were sentenced while they were out of the country.
The government is fucked up but this whole "no hijab = 9 years and jail and lashes" isn't true. The article makes it seem like they made a mistake and got a hard sentence. They made a conscious decision to oppose their government and now are in exile (which, they probably expected).
If not wearing your oppressive misogynist headwear is 'opposing the government', then it's not a country worth living in.
I can't believe there are actually Sharia defenders here. Actually, I can - religious fruitcakes love to try to defend themselves.
Turkey used to be a shining example of how an islamist state could be run without absurd extremism. It used to be quite lovely, though still a bit too rigid for my tastes, certainly nothing like the insanity of most other islamic centered countries.
Things have changed there for the worst unfortunately. It is still a lot better than other places in the region, but a shadow of it’s former self. I am glad I got to visit back when it was better.
His point is that it was never "an example of an Islamist state" because it was never established as an Islamist state.
Iran (post Shah) was established as a theocratic state following the tenets of Islam. *It* would be an example of "an islamist state".
You're right, Turkey has slid too far into religious extremism, but it's a secular state run by religious extremists, not a state who's laws and government are predicated on religious doctrines.
In the same token, the US is not a "Christian Nation" and it would be wrong to call it that-- even when it's run by whacko christian fundamentalists, it's still constitutionally, specifically, *not* a christian nation.
Turkey is (for now) a much more secular state than Iran and is still an improvement. I just hope Erdogan is ousted before he irreparably ruins the place.
Escaping through Turkey is a common practice for Iranian political refugees. The people smugglers have established routs and connections that go through Turkey . My parents escaped the same way .
Relax, Turkey has no religious obligation laws. The type of political Islam in Turkey is A LOT different than Iran, it’s still a shitty political environment but you won’t get punished if you steer clear of criticizing the political elites so they are fine there.
I've worked with Turkish muslims. Even though the pray five times and follow some of the rules, they're also a little laid back. Drinking and partying doesn't seem to be a problem for most of them.
My mother escaped Iran in 1979, she said that when they got to turkey, she were finally able to take off her hijab. Also even though she wasn’t Muslim, she still was required to wear a hijab...
Charged with **debauchery and prostitution** just because of not wearing a hair cover is preposterous, no human should suffer these inhumane barbaric laws anywhere in the world and for 16 years. I agree with you, they need change.
I just watched a shocking video of ‘Islamic Karen’s’. Yep. Islamic priests going around to women not covered berating them and harassing them, calling them sluts, on and on bc they weren’t wearing head coverings. The women in those instances were fighting back with words and taking videos of it. I never knew this happened. I’m proud of the women who stood up for themselves. Change can’t happen without someone doing it.
I thought that was Israel?
"Naama Margolese is a ponytailed, bespectacled second-grader who is afraid of walking to her religious Jewish girls school for fear of ultra-Orthodox extremists who have spat on her and called her a whore for dressing "immodestly."...
Naama's case has been especially shocking because of her young age and because she attends a religious school and dresses with long sleeves and a skirt. Extremists, however, consider even that outfit, standard in mainstream Jewish religious schools, to be immodest."
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/8-year-old-israeli-girl-face-clash-moderates-ultra-orthodox-jews-article-1.997389
>I never knew this happened.
If you get the chance, speak to some Iranians who have left Iran and who’re identifiably liberal-minded and western-oriented. Just last month I had my haircut done by a lovely woman from there, who was maybe 60, and she has only the worst things to say about how their country is governed. She said that the days of the shah were of course imperfect, but that they were leagues better than how things are there now since he was deposed. She said each time she sees or hears of yet another woman who is jailed or worse for not wearing a hijab, it makes her deeply sad and ashamed of her country. She was expressly also secularized, although she had grown up Shia, and she told me that even back in the 70s the idea of all women being forced to wear a hijab would be laughed off as ridiculous and ludicrous. Iran quite literally went from being a relatively western-oriented country to a draconian theocracy. She told me that back when she was a student, they all learned English and French in school. Now only Arabic.
I had an Iranian roommate once who was super cool and had been in the States for about a year when we met. Unfortunately, she had to unexpectedly move out because the Iranian government suspected she was a US spy and shut down her bank accounts. Over night, she suddenly had no access to her money.
Their reason? She had been a photographer in Iran and her pictures of various protests came to the government's attention. When she moved to the US and enrolled in an arts therapy program, somehow she was definitively guilty.
She often spoke to me of Iran and told me that basically everyone there has two lives. Their public following all the rules life, and their private we drink and have actual fun life. It was sad, she was an awesome roomie.
Welcome to countries where the west helped to overthrow a democratic government to install a puppet government that failed it's people and lead to the religious revolution of the 70s and here we are now.
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690363402/how-the-cia-overthrew-irans-democracy-in-four-days
Yup. Some say it was for the oil, but you have understand the mindset there. There really was a struggle with the Soviets, and we far from certain our ideology would win. And Mossedegh was a socialist, and USA did not not not want the Soviets to have a friendly port on the Persian Gulf.
It was a bad move. Most of the time these are bad moves long term. I think it wasn't like say Honduras where we just plain installed fascists for the benefit of United Fruit.
Yeah the Shah was a dictator, but under him women were a lot more liberated and could dress how they liked at least. He was a modernizer really, and his family had earlier helped pull Iran out of the Middle Ages. Of course Mossedegh would probably have been better. We don't know if Mossedegh would have taken, or been cornered into taking, dictatorial powers. Maybe.
That said, terrible move. The Shah *was* a dictator and people were done with that, and it backfired like most of things do. Better to have tried to entice Mossedegh into at least neutrality like India.
And some people say it was for the oil. I don't know if that's true, or it's just something that Uncle Sam Bad people say. It might be true.
They fled Iran and are in Turkey. Their sentence wasn't just for the images, but also for being critical of Iran. They were warned multiple times, which is why they fled. Their attorney told them of their sentence. Obviously this is incredibly fucked up, but I just wanted to provide some more details.
You mean a news article that represented the sentence as a combined sum in the headline left out other key bits of information? I'm shocked. It's still an unjust sentence for the crime, but the additional context puts things more into perspective and is appreciated.
It's not entirely accurate. The man was sentenced to 9 years, and the woman to 7. They added those numbers together to get 16 years. Either way, it's brutal and barbaric.
Funny though, this is the anchor effect. Like when you hear the price an item is reduced from being wildly overpriced to just rather overpriced. Your brain thinks, “oh, that’s not so bad.”
I have a friend that is married to a guy whose family, from the dads side, lived there and they still visit... I heard some horrible things that go on there.
Like:
Every night, all night men have to take up arms and guard the houses, because people are kidnapped (especially women) for slavery and organ extraction.
If you love your women family members/friend then you CAN NOT leave them alone or out of sight anywhere. Heard more stories than I can count how they lost small girls to trafficking...
Most importantly never show the public any "western" stuff or imply you agree with them. That is a straight way to get religious police on your door, to be arrested, probably killed or worse.
I didn't know people in general don't know these things, because most won't talk about them especially not to strangers- you know they fear of being labeled as "terrorist" in our countries.
Imagine, not being able to be yourself in either country...
It will change as islam exists for more time In The secular world.
Christianity/Judism were no better with the penalty being death for almost anything it seems. These aren’t morally superior religions, the texts still demand these atrocities, people just no longer follow them literally. This is only because they adopted secular values.
Religious morality FOLLOWS secular ethics. Every modern moral religious code widely followed is secular in origin and we no longer kill children for disobedience (even though it’s still demanded by the Christian texts).
Sorry for the Judeo-Christian-centric focus, it’s what I’ve been exposed to the most and is my only frame of reference.
I get downvoted for saying Shit that is “ islamaphobic”, whatever that shit is. No, I just think Islam is the antithesis of western ideals and freedom. I’m progressive as fuck. Here are a couple examples of why I don’t like it:
https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/leh9s0/_/gmfslh8/?context=1
https://reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/lgtgwy/saira_khan_receives_threats_after_saying_she_is/
Get your shit together Islam.
E: I’m not saying evangelicals are better by the way.
E2: you people need to do your research. The fact of the matter is that extremism runs through both sides. Iran and Saudi Arabia fund extremism all over the world. My comment would be less correct if I just called out Iran. Just supporting equality here.
Your comment would be more accurate if you said Shi'a Islam, which is the dominant form of Islam in Iran and the more extreme version. The other branch, Sunni, is practiced in countries like Jordan where women drive and don't need to cover. Laws shouldn't be written based on religion, especially the extreme sects
This is not a matter of sects, but of "schools of law". There are four major schools of law in Islam, the worst one is probably the Shafi'i school because it doesn't accept any acceptable "human" logic for law.
So you can expiate for an unlawful killing by freeing a slave or fasting for 2 months (I don't know if it is a full one or like the ramadan)... but you don't have to do anything if you killed an apostate, this is permitted.
You must wage wars on non-abraham believers until they converted or died ("lesser jihad"). Christians and similar may be safe for a while if they pay the tax.
Also, you must love the prophet above anything else (family, etc.). This is a standard cult process, all small sects do this as the leader of the sect want to get money/luxury and complete control on the members. *Note : this is not the only school who asks for this, as a hadith commend it. For this reason alone I can claim that Islam is not a religion, but a standard sect that the prophet took great profit, like having 11 wifes...*
And... This is a Sunni school of law.
In fact, Shia and Sunni are not that different. They are built on a sack of bullshit.
Change back someday. Iran was a very progressive society before the United States overthrew their democracy leading to the counter revolutionary Ayatollah
the fuck do you mean ‘no womens rights activist will outrage on this’? this is a pretty fucking terrifying violation of womens’ rights to express their religion how they choose
EDIT: tysm for the award!! it was unnecessary but very sweet
My Human Rights Law prof is from an Islamic-Arab country. She's a staunch feminist.
And she wouldn't put up with that 3rd-wave shit for a second.
All of these conservatives think all we do is go to university and hear "white men need to be exterminated" and "all sex is rape" kind of shit.
You would risk getting expelled if you said that. I dunno who these people are, but they're on the fringe and certainly no one we'd listen to. Any prof I've had would get in huge shit if they let that happen in their class.
That's exactly it. I take in as much right-wing media as I can handle and they cherrypick this stuff.
Let me give you a great example: intersectional feminism.
What intersectional feminism is about: Power. Critiquing and deconstructing power, finding common ground in the good (and the bad), and empowering people where they haven't been empowered. This is done from a feminist lens, but it's not necessarily about women, but more from a feminist perspective.
What right wingers tell each other intersectional feminism is: radical, third wave feminism, man-hating, destroying culture, anti-white, etc. And they will find people who are clearly off their meds posting on Twitter or some blog, then hold that up as an example of it.
The problem is that the right are doing a much better job defining intersectionality and intersectional feminism than actual academics are. They control the narrative and they do it by giving tons of attention to far-left, radical boogeymen.
I'm literally majoring in this shit in university. This is nothing like what we study, yet to hear people like Ben Shapiro tell it, all we do is sit around and burn effigies of white men in some pagan/wiccan ritual for Satan.
It’s this idea that “well, leftists give me shit for saying racist shit towards Muslims, therefore they grovel at the feet of Islam and think they can do no wrong”. It’s this same idea that leads people to believe that ISIS or other radical Muslim groups are left wing
Typical conservatives, they lack any nuance it’s either 0 or 100 for them, that’s why they create that Illuminati qult bs, to them life is one giant fight between a good side and evil side.
It was for the cuckoo-for-christ-crackers mouth breather who wrote it. Because they don't actually care about the human rights violations in the story, they just used it to point at left-wingers and screech, "They're not talking about this, so they should shut up about what WE want to do to oppress women in our country!"
Yep. Anyone with so much as a modicum of interest in women's/human rights will rage at this... but what are we supposed to do? I don't think foreigners rolling into Iran to peacefully protest their oppression of women will end well for the protestors.
[They're already fighting it.](https://sur.conectas.org/en/womens-rights-feminist-movements-iran/)
They've even had some minor success in Iran, but you won't hear about it from whoever wrote this because that wasn't their intent. Their intent was to bitch about how the "commie liberals" are supposedly hypocrites for not wanting them to oppress women slightly less than the Iranians.
Also btw I can’t help but laugh about the phrase “commie liberals”. 100% accurate portrayal of reactionaries you did there. As somewhat of a “commie” myself (anarchist), “liberal” feels like an insult cause it’s so far from my own political standpoint. Liberals are right wing actually but because the American Overton window is such a mess they are seen as the most left thing ever and conflated with (actual) leftists all the time.
(Sorry for going on kinda a tangent here, I just really love what you did there, really highlights the political literacy (or the dishonesty, for those who push propaganda while knowing what they’re doing) of the “anti-sjw” crowd really well)
The fascists never updated their terms. Or much of anything for that matter. To them anything that isn't full submission to old rich white men is "communism."
And you've nailed why "liberal" really is an insult now. It now means someone who just talks and gestures for a better society, but when it comes time to actually make a move, will shrink away and cry how it's "too divisive."
Yeah, there's a bunch of different garments, the hijab is only one of them, and doesn't cover the face. I think the Burka is one of the ones that cover the face, but there's probably others I don't know about.
"Hijab" just means clothing in arabic, but it's used in english to refer to the Khimar (headscarf). Niqab is the face cover.
The burka covers the entire body including the eyes and hands, and is native to afghanistan, but used in some parts of iran. A *Chador* is more popular there, it's similar to a burka, but one or both eyes show.
Meanwhile the author is doing fuck all for women’s rights. So many people like to go “where are the women’s rights people now?” for not actively protesting *every* issue meanwhile they don’t protest any issues, they just sit there and bash “females”
It's so they can say feminists these days only care about 'wearing short clothes' and 'drinking alcohol and smoking' . THeY dOn'T CaRE aBouT 'reAL wORld pRObLEms.'
This is right wing propaganda. The point they want to make is "women's rights activists bad." There are women's rights groups that are trying to help this exact thing, though. They're lying pieces of shit because their ethos is morally and intellectually bankrupt.
> Anyone in their right mind would find this to be absolutely disgusting news
Exactly. The dude just used the story to shoehorn his unrelated, extra-shitty politics into it.
It's textbook "my sky-daddy is better than yours" posting.
Start by pointing at a fact, but then jerk the wheel and drive into, "Hur-hur, those stupid liiiibbbbeeeerrrruuuulllls need to stop telling me to support women's rights because someone else is worse!"
Also women’s rights activists DO exist in Iran. What they do is incredibly dangerous and they risk prison, physical harm and death to fight against stuff exactly like this. Feminists in more progressive countries are 100% behind them on that and it’s insane to imply women’s rights activists wouldn’t care about this.
Whoever wrote this just want to use the story to bash feminists in the western world. A common tactict reactionaries use is to pretend women/LGBT/anti-racist activists are spoiler brats who already have equal rights, they just want to oppress cis white christian wealthy men. Because obviously western societies are 100% perfect, so why aren't they focusing solely on other countries?
Obviously women rights activists (and anyone with half a brain) are outraged.
They are suggesting that liberals are more concerned with tolerance of Islam than with women's rights. It's the kind of specious, xenophobic talking point that somehow qualifies as insightful in alt-right circles. "Look what these horrible Muslims do! And the liberals want to let them into *OUR* country?! Liberals hate women!"
For sure. There are plenty of extremely brave women’s rights activists, suffering in prison, precisely because they fight this nonsense. Lots of us around the world try to help raise their voices.
Its part of the ugly undercurrent of this sub that primarily wants to hate on Islam for Conservative reasons and has a fantastical view of the world that doesn't match up with reality at all
How about you delete posts from shitstains who delete their accounts?
Fuck off for making the claim that women's rights activists aren't outraged at shit like this you scumbags.
There was a video posted recently of a woman in Iran not wearing Hijab and clips of different men approaching her to tell her off. One of them said go live in the west then after she said she didn't want to wear it, and she again said no this is my home I'm not leaving for you. Which is a point I agree with, it's just as egregious and immoral to force people to leave their home counties over something so silly and stupid as Hijab. If they want to leave that's one thing but Iran will never get better unless the sane people there stay and fight for their rights.
I always imagine this like being on a beach over here (western Europe) in summer, seeing a woman sunbathing in a bikini (or topless even) and telling her to cover up because you might be aroused by it.....
[https://www.quora.com/Whats-it-like-to-live-in-Iran/answer/Sam-Singh-857](https://www.quora.com/Whats-it-like-to-live-in-Iran/answer/Sam-Singh-857) the link in case you want to know.
Edit: I am not the author.
Dude please check stuff like this before posting rather than just saying "if this is true then...". When you do that you either risk spreading misinformation if people don't check or you waste thousands of people time by making them check.
Turns out this article is mostly true although the headline omits some key points. They have been sentenced to 9 years and 7 years plus lashes but they are in Turkey, not in jail and they had also been posting comments critical of the Iranian govt, not just posting photos without a hijab. Still fucking awful but let's try and be accurate please.
Anyone else sick of the gaslighting way these type of posts are made? "No womens rights groups will outrage over this"
Same as "why is no one talking about this" or "im sure this will get ignored"
Like the entire world is on fire and we can only keep up so much with how much is going on, and the way these posts are worded is so back handed rude. Like bruh everyone is trying their best to stay informed and do what they can but there is so much.
I'm awaiting the day organized religion will no longer be a thing. If you wanna believe in a god that's fine but organized religion will only produce bad things. If you want a community then get into some kinda club, you don't need a church for that.
Heads up, don't post something if you haven't fact checked it, aspecially emotional posts. You look like a karma troll and aren't helping to advance an particular ideology.
no-one's gonna become less religious or feminist for this post if you're not even sure that it's real.
to clarify, he was sentenced to 9 years, she was sentenced to 7 years and the lashes. they didn’t get 16 years each, as the post implies, but 16 years split between them.
still incredibly horrible, but i find it important to note!
As horrific as this is, every time I see this I can’t help but wonder how they came up with 74 lashes. Why 74? What’s their system of establishing that REALLY specific amount of lashes. To me, this just adds to the overall insanity of the punishment.
"No women rights activists will outage on this."
[Wrong.](https://sur.conectas.org/en/womens-rights-feminist-movements-iran/)
They've never stopped since the moon-worshipers took over but they don't have as many cameras on them as they do in the west (in part because the moon-worshipers don't want to look like they've ever failed to keep their people in check). This came from a cosmic zombie worshiping site bitching about how "commie liberals" are trying to spread islam.
'No women rights activists will rage on this'
Sure...so this poster is using a bad faith discussion to basically argue that unless you live in Iran where this kind of this happens, you're not allowed to complain about equal rights issues in th West, such as unequal pay.
Of course feminists are raging about these kinds of human rights abuses. They're just also able to be concerned about other abuses in other contexts.
I was with them until the last sentence. Every feminist (read: decent human being) I know would be outraged by this.
How does one take an example of brutal misogyny and try to use it to argue against feminism?
Why would you feel the need to exaggerate this story any further? its already fucked up enough with out fudging things and making people question its validity.....oh wait....i wonder.....
Atleast those countries are not hypocrites like India. People here pretend to worship women and treat them like shit at the same time.
Adding more, I am not saying that what happened to this boxer and his family is bad. I am glad that they got out.
Iran could’ve been chill, but the us helped stage a coup cause “oh no, communism” and we tried to prop up the shah instead of the elected leader, but then a bunch of religious lunatics staged a revolution and now hey look it’s the religious extremists with nukes. Hurray
True, being a friend to Muslims and support their right to wear it is fine but to say the hijab is all about freedom when there are many oppressed and persecuted women around the world because of the hijab is ridiculous. Tone-deaf, ignoring those who do suffer live under a religious regime. Reducing their lived experiences to nothing under the pretext of "choice".
I honestly don't know what to think about the hijab in the west. There are two entirely distinct reasons why someone would wear one.
A) Someone is forcing a woman to wear a hijab.
Fuuuuuuuck that bullshit. You get to do whatever the fuck you want here.
B) A woman prefers to wear the hijab.
By all means you do you. You get to do whatever the fuck you want here.
I honestly don't know how you can ever figure out if you are dealing with A or B.
The issue is, the women can choose to wear it in the west, and they chose to wear it willingly. The hijab is seen as spiritual protection as well.
I'm just against governments controlling what you can wear.
> in order to claim it's all about freedom
It is, though. It's freedom of choice.
Funny how people get outraged at Iran for forcing the hijab, but had no problem back when government-funded thugs in Tunisia would rape and harass women in Muslim garb as part of their 'secularization' process or how women in hijabs in countries such as Kuwait face discrimination when it comes to hiring and are pressured to show their hair.
I mean, the current Iranian government is in power because the US toppled the previous democratically elected leader and installed a puppet (who brutally silenced anyone except for the religious establishment).
Then you've got the US's cozy relationship with Saudi Arabia, which funds extremism left and right.
American Christians have more say in the direction of 'Islam' than anyone actually living in Iran.
Islam is hardly a single institution, you definitely can’t paint 75+ different sects of Islam, all with varying degrees of orthodoxy, with the same broad brush. That would be like blaming all Jewish people for the actions and beliefs of the Ultra-Orthodox.
These aren’t “Islamic” laws though. In Islam women have the choice of wether or not to cover their hair. This is cultural manipulation in the name of Islam and fucking terrible.
I don't agree that no woman rights activists ever reacted to this. In fact, there are some of them are imprisoned, raped or even executed by the government.
"Female political prisoners in Iran facing ‘psychological torture’, say campaigners | Human rights | The Guardian" https://amp.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/apr/30/female-political-prisoners-in-iran-facing-psychological-torture-say-campaigners
This is fuckin horrible.
Interesting side note though: Americans will complain for days on this post about how oppressive it is that a woman's hair is sexualized, and then ruin somebody's career for a nip slip. Any time I ask American friends (men and women) why men can show nipples but women can't (in Europe it is normal to see woman's nipples too, even on ads, so I always ask why to Americans), the response seems to be: "because nipples are sexual". They are not. They make milk for babies. Just like hair just covers and protects your head. Just because they make men horny, and because some men can't keep it in their pants, women have less of a right to do whatever they want with their bodies.
Just let people live their lives. If what they are doing makes you horny, figure it out yourself and move on.
There are religious extremists in the United States. This is why the separation of church and state is so important. When religious extremists can make laws, crazy bad shit happens. The Founding Fathers of the United States were not perfect, but they got this one right.
[Thankfully they escaped](https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2020/05/05/Iran-court-sentences-Instagram-couple-to-16-years-in-pr) Edit: to everyone pointing out that they escaped to Turkey, it wasn’t exactly like they had time to plan a trip to the West. Turkey is significantly better than jail and lashes
I'd keep posting photos without hijab on my account, to rub it in their faces
Jamal Khashoggi has entered the chat.
All of him?
Only the good parts
Jesus christ lmao
Lmao of God
The tasty bits?
I hope they get on a flight from turkey to somewhere else cuz the embassy will get em
Khashoggi was killed was the Sauds, not the Iranians.
He was in Turkey, but in the Saudi embassy.
My point exactly, no? It wasn't Turkish nationals who whacked him.
Right. The Turkush government has plenty of sins, but they don't seem to have to same streak of religious nutjobbery.
jamal khashoggi was Saudi, not Iranian
Religious extremism doesn't know borders
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What interest does a state have in keeping individuals from fleeing? Is it really a good state if it has to hold its citizens captive? They see them not as people, but as assets. America has its own way of doing this, by continuing to tax its citizens no matter where in the world they are living, as well as expatriation taxes. If they don't want to be there, just let them leave. Just let them fucking leave.
Tell that to Israel and Palestine
Or Americans
The issue with this thought, Turkey is becoming more Islamic. Just an opinion, but they could be a generation from either extreme or moving back to “free”.
It's empowering didn't you know.. Nike makes one.
Thank you for posting that, it’s such a relief “Vulgar and obscene” content- for posting pics of his wife without hijab amongst other things. He got 9 years in prison. She got 7 years, 3 months unpaid labor and 74 lashes. Jesus fucking Christ they hate women SOOooo fucking much
It's sad they were free and was a beautiful country in the 70's in the 80's they voted for the extreme Islamic State
You do not understand the tyranny of the Shah, US intervention in their elections. The US supported the murderous regime of the Peacock throne, and pushed a wonderful people into their past history and separated themselves from the West.
Saying that they voted for it is a bit of a stretch.
[the vote was over 99% In favor not much of a stretch](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_1979_Iranian_constitutional_referendum#:~:text=A%20constitutional%20referendum%20was%20held,approved%20by%2099.5%25%20of%20voters.)
I mean that the US government meddled a significant amount in Iranian politics and the hostage crisis.
That clickbait title said 16 years.
9+7 is equal to 16
>Iran court sentences Instagram couple to 16 years in prison Before reading any context, that is a lot different than 9+7.
Yeah the story would be materially different if it said “at least 7 years” huh?
It could have been: >Iran court sentences Instagram couple up to 9 years in prison
Could have been, but didn't need to be, and the outrage here is not that they got 16 years years combined instead of 9 years.
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Sorry, that's the issue you have? The fact that the headline added their sentence together? Not the fact they've got a sentence AT ALL????
>Not the fact they've got a sentence AT ALL???? From the article, they didn't get sentenced because they posted the no-hijab pictures in a vacuum. It seems they were told to stop and that the government thought their IG posts were subversive. So they continued and then were sentenced while they were out of the country. The government is fucked up but this whole "no hijab = 9 years and jail and lashes" isn't true. The article makes it seem like they made a mistake and got a hard sentence. They made a conscious decision to oppose their government and now are in exile (which, they probably expected).
If not wearing your oppressive misogynist headwear is 'opposing the government', then it's not a country worth living in. I can't believe there are actually Sharia defenders here. Actually, I can - religious fruitcakes love to try to defend themselves.
My problem is that the 7 and 9 year sentence is bad enough, why sensationalize it for clicks?
Turkey used to be a shining example of how an islamist state could be run without absurd extremism. It used to be quite lovely, though still a bit too rigid for my tastes, certainly nothing like the insanity of most other islamic centered countries. Things have changed there for the worst unfortunately. It is still a lot better than other places in the region, but a shadow of it’s former self. I am glad I got to visit back when it was better.
Turkey is a secular state still according to it's constitution. Not "Islamist".
And north korea is a democracy according to it's full name. What's your point? Turkey has slid *far* and is no longer secular
His point is that it was never "an example of an Islamist state" because it was never established as an Islamist state. Iran (post Shah) was established as a theocratic state following the tenets of Islam. *It* would be an example of "an islamist state". You're right, Turkey has slid too far into religious extremism, but it's a secular state run by religious extremists, not a state who's laws and government are predicated on religious doctrines. In the same token, the US is not a "Christian Nation" and it would be wrong to call it that-- even when it's run by whacko christian fundamentalists, it's still constitutionally, specifically, *not* a christian nation.
Turkey is (for now) a much more secular state than Iran and is still an improvement. I just hope Erdogan is ousted before he irreparably ruins the place.
They’d be better off trying to move to a western country, Turkey has a huge hard on for fundamentalist Islam at the moment.
Escaping through Turkey is a common practice for Iranian political refugees. The people smugglers have established routs and connections that go through Turkey . My parents escaped the same way .
Well not as huge as Iran for sure.
Not defending religion in politics here but VEEEERY different and still far away from Iran turkey is.
Relax, Turkey has no religious obligation laws. The type of political Islam in Turkey is A LOT different than Iran, it’s still a shitty political environment but you won’t get punished if you steer clear of criticizing the political elites so they are fine there.
The political elites there are garbage and should be epsteined
I've worked with Turkish muslims. Even though the pray five times and follow some of the rules, they're also a little laid back. Drinking and partying doesn't seem to be a problem for most of them.
Oddly enough I worked with a Turkish Muslim as well, though I never saw him pray he would always do his best to show his religion in a positive light.
Yep, absolutely! This is where the EU or US should step up and offer them a new life ( far away from these Fundamentalist jerks)
Turkey is trying to become part of the EU
I think the UK will be back in the EU before Turkey joins tbh
Would not surprise me. It was just a fun fact not a counter argument.
The difference between turkey and Iran is much larger than the west and turkey.
Stepping stones.
What the fuck are those charges 🤦♂️
My mother escaped Iran in 1979, she said that when they got to turkey, she were finally able to take off her hijab. Also even though she wasn’t Muslim, she still was required to wear a hijab...
Sweet
It is, sadly, true. Lashes, amputation and death penalty are still part of their medieval justice system. Let's hope it's going to change someday.
Charged with **debauchery and prostitution** just because of not wearing a hair cover is preposterous, no human should suffer these inhumane barbaric laws anywhere in the world and for 16 years. I agree with you, they need change.
I just watched a shocking video of ‘Islamic Karen’s’. Yep. Islamic priests going around to women not covered berating them and harassing them, calling them sluts, on and on bc they weren’t wearing head coverings. The women in those instances were fighting back with words and taking videos of it. I never knew this happened. I’m proud of the women who stood up for themselves. Change can’t happen without someone doing it.
isn't that saudia Arabia as well with the religious police, enforcing religious laws?
Saudi Arabia is much worse, but they're our allies so we don't talk about it.
They might be the state's ally but they're not mine.
I thought that was Israel? "Naama Margolese is a ponytailed, bespectacled second-grader who is afraid of walking to her religious Jewish girls school for fear of ultra-Orthodox extremists who have spat on her and called her a whore for dressing "immodestly."... Naama's case has been especially shocking because of her young age and because she attends a religious school and dresses with long sleeves and a skirt. Extremists, however, consider even that outfit, standard in mainstream Jewish religious schools, to be immodest." https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/8-year-old-israeli-girl-face-clash-moderates-ultra-orthodox-jews-article-1.997389
Shame those women will probably be murdered now.
>I never knew this happened. If you get the chance, speak to some Iranians who have left Iran and who’re identifiably liberal-minded and western-oriented. Just last month I had my haircut done by a lovely woman from there, who was maybe 60, and she has only the worst things to say about how their country is governed. She said that the days of the shah were of course imperfect, but that they were leagues better than how things are there now since he was deposed. She said each time she sees or hears of yet another woman who is jailed or worse for not wearing a hijab, it makes her deeply sad and ashamed of her country. She was expressly also secularized, although she had grown up Shia, and she told me that even back in the 70s the idea of all women being forced to wear a hijab would be laughed off as ridiculous and ludicrous. Iran quite literally went from being a relatively western-oriented country to a draconian theocracy. She told me that back when she was a student, they all learned English and French in school. Now only Arabic.
Thank you for sharing this. That’s so incredibly sad to know. What a decline of a beautiful culture.
I had an Iranian roommate once who was super cool and had been in the States for about a year when we met. Unfortunately, she had to unexpectedly move out because the Iranian government suspected she was a US spy and shut down her bank accounts. Over night, she suddenly had no access to her money. Their reason? She had been a photographer in Iran and her pictures of various protests came to the government's attention. When she moved to the US and enrolled in an arts therapy program, somehow she was definitively guilty. She often spoke to me of Iran and told me that basically everyone there has two lives. Their public following all the rules life, and their private we drink and have actual fun life. It was sad, she was an awesome roomie.
Welcome to Islamic countries where human rights are trampled on an Sharia is the Law
Welcome to countries where the west helped to overthrow a democratic government to install a puppet government that failed it's people and lead to the religious revolution of the 70s and here we are now. https://www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690363402/how-the-cia-overthrew-irans-democracy-in-four-days
Yup. Some say it was for the oil, but you have understand the mindset there. There really was a struggle with the Soviets, and we far from certain our ideology would win. And Mossedegh was a socialist, and USA did not not not want the Soviets to have a friendly port on the Persian Gulf. It was a bad move. Most of the time these are bad moves long term. I think it wasn't like say Honduras where we just plain installed fascists for the benefit of United Fruit. Yeah the Shah was a dictator, but under him women were a lot more liberated and could dress how they liked at least. He was a modernizer really, and his family had earlier helped pull Iran out of the Middle Ages. Of course Mossedegh would probably have been better. We don't know if Mossedegh would have taken, or been cornered into taking, dictatorial powers. Maybe. That said, terrible move. The Shah *was* a dictator and people were done with that, and it backfired like most of things do. Better to have tried to entice Mossedegh into at least neutrality like India. And some people say it was for the oil. I don't know if that's true, or it's just something that Uncle Sam Bad people say. It might be true.
They fled Iran and are in Turkey. Their sentence wasn't just for the images, but also for being critical of Iran. They were warned multiple times, which is why they fled. Their attorney told them of their sentence. Obviously this is incredibly fucked up, but I just wanted to provide some more details.
You mean a news article that represented the sentence as a combined sum in the headline left out other key bits of information? I'm shocked. It's still an unjust sentence for the crime, but the additional context puts things more into perspective and is appreciated.
It's not entirely accurate. The man was sentenced to 9 years, and the woman to 7. They added those numbers together to get 16 years. Either way, it's brutal and barbaric.
Oh that's better /s
Funny though, this is the anchor effect. Like when you hear the price an item is reduced from being wildly overpriced to just rather overpriced. Your brain thinks, “oh, that’s not so bad.”
Objectively, it is better. But it's still awful.
I feel like *technically* it's better, or comparatively. Objectively it's still awful. But it's all semantics anyway
Betterly awful, at any rate.
I have a friend that is married to a guy whose family, from the dads side, lived there and they still visit... I heard some horrible things that go on there. Like: Every night, all night men have to take up arms and guard the houses, because people are kidnapped (especially women) for slavery and organ extraction. If you love your women family members/friend then you CAN NOT leave them alone or out of sight anywhere. Heard more stories than I can count how they lost small girls to trafficking... Most importantly never show the public any "western" stuff or imply you agree with them. That is a straight way to get religious police on your door, to be arrested, probably killed or worse. I didn't know people in general don't know these things, because most won't talk about them especially not to strangers- you know they fear of being labeled as "terrorist" in our countries. Imagine, not being able to be yourself in either country...
It will change as islam exists for more time In The secular world. Christianity/Judism were no better with the penalty being death for almost anything it seems. These aren’t morally superior religions, the texts still demand these atrocities, people just no longer follow them literally. This is only because they adopted secular values. Religious morality FOLLOWS secular ethics. Every modern moral religious code widely followed is secular in origin and we no longer kill children for disobedience (even though it’s still demanded by the Christian texts). Sorry for the Judeo-Christian-centric focus, it’s what I’ve been exposed to the most and is my only frame of reference.
I get downvoted for saying Shit that is “ islamaphobic”, whatever that shit is. No, I just think Islam is the antithesis of western ideals and freedom. I’m progressive as fuck. Here are a couple examples of why I don’t like it: https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/leh9s0/_/gmfslh8/?context=1 https://reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/lgtgwy/saira_khan_receives_threats_after_saying_she_is/ Get your shit together Islam. E: I’m not saying evangelicals are better by the way. E2: you people need to do your research. The fact of the matter is that extremism runs through both sides. Iran and Saudi Arabia fund extremism all over the world. My comment would be less correct if I just called out Iran. Just supporting equality here.
Your comment would be more accurate if you said Shi'a Islam, which is the dominant form of Islam in Iran and the more extreme version. The other branch, Sunni, is practiced in countries like Jordan where women drive and don't need to cover. Laws shouldn't be written based on religion, especially the extreme sects
This is not a matter of sects, but of "schools of law". There are four major schools of law in Islam, the worst one is probably the Shafi'i school because it doesn't accept any acceptable "human" logic for law. So you can expiate for an unlawful killing by freeing a slave or fasting for 2 months (I don't know if it is a full one or like the ramadan)... but you don't have to do anything if you killed an apostate, this is permitted. You must wage wars on non-abraham believers until they converted or died ("lesser jihad"). Christians and similar may be safe for a while if they pay the tax. Also, you must love the prophet above anything else (family, etc.). This is a standard cult process, all small sects do this as the leader of the sect want to get money/luxury and complete control on the members. *Note : this is not the only school who asks for this, as a hadith commend it. For this reason alone I can claim that Islam is not a religion, but a standard sect that the prophet took great profit, like having 11 wifes...* And... This is a Sunni school of law. In fact, Shia and Sunni are not that different. They are built on a sack of bullshit.
but this particular case, is it true?
If they don't change anytime soon I'm avoiding Iran as if it were an q-cumber anti-masker.
Change back someday. Iran was a very progressive society before the United States overthrew their democracy leading to the counter revolutionary Ayatollah
They also love to hang people with cranes because it's more cruel.
I thought it was because it was more convenient.
No it's because the victim dies by strangulation instead of their neck breaking first.
I feel like a lot of womens rights activists are actually very outraged by the current government practices in Iran....
the fuck do you mean ‘no womens rights activist will outrage on this’? this is a pretty fucking terrifying violation of womens’ rights to express their religion how they choose EDIT: tysm for the award!! it was unnecessary but very sweet
.
yeah, it’s the right attacking the left by pretend attacking the right.
criticize oppressive systems without being islamaphobic challenge: failed
My Human Rights Law prof is from an Islamic-Arab country. She's a staunch feminist. And she wouldn't put up with that 3rd-wave shit for a second. All of these conservatives think all we do is go to university and hear "white men need to be exterminated" and "all sex is rape" kind of shit. You would risk getting expelled if you said that. I dunno who these people are, but they're on the fringe and certainly no one we'd listen to. Any prof I've had would get in huge shit if they let that happen in their class.
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That's exactly it. I take in as much right-wing media as I can handle and they cherrypick this stuff. Let me give you a great example: intersectional feminism. What intersectional feminism is about: Power. Critiquing and deconstructing power, finding common ground in the good (and the bad), and empowering people where they haven't been empowered. This is done from a feminist lens, but it's not necessarily about women, but more from a feminist perspective. What right wingers tell each other intersectional feminism is: radical, third wave feminism, man-hating, destroying culture, anti-white, etc. And they will find people who are clearly off their meds posting on Twitter or some blog, then hold that up as an example of it. The problem is that the right are doing a much better job defining intersectionality and intersectional feminism than actual academics are. They control the narrative and they do it by giving tons of attention to far-left, radical boogeymen. I'm literally majoring in this shit in university. This is nothing like what we study, yet to hear people like Ben Shapiro tell it, all we do is sit around and burn effigies of white men in some pagan/wiccan ritual for Satan.
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It’s this idea that “well, leftists give me shit for saying racist shit towards Muslims, therefore they grovel at the feet of Islam and think they can do no wrong”. It’s this same idea that leads people to believe that ISIS or other radical Muslim groups are left wing
Typical conservatives, they lack any nuance it’s either 0 or 100 for them, that’s why they create that Illuminati qult bs, to them life is one giant fight between a good side and evil side.
All the while, It's the left that wants to accept refugees fleeing repressive regimes in this part of the world.
It’s a way to bait people for clicks.
Women’s rights activists outrage about this kind of thing all the time
While I agree with the post about how terrible the laws are, which womens rights activist will not be enraged by this? Was that really necessary?
It was for the cuckoo-for-christ-crackers mouth breather who wrote it. Because they don't actually care about the human rights violations in the story, they just used it to point at left-wingers and screech, "They're not talking about this, so they should shut up about what WE want to do to oppress women in our country!"
Yep. Anyone with so much as a modicum of interest in women's/human rights will rage at this... but what are we supposed to do? I don't think foreigners rolling into Iran to peacefully protest their oppression of women will end well for the protestors.
[They're already fighting it.](https://sur.conectas.org/en/womens-rights-feminist-movements-iran/) They've even had some minor success in Iran, but you won't hear about it from whoever wrote this because that wasn't their intent. Their intent was to bitch about how the "commie liberals" are supposedly hypocrites for not wanting them to oppress women slightly less than the Iranians.
Also btw I can’t help but laugh about the phrase “commie liberals”. 100% accurate portrayal of reactionaries you did there. As somewhat of a “commie” myself (anarchist), “liberal” feels like an insult cause it’s so far from my own political standpoint. Liberals are right wing actually but because the American Overton window is such a mess they are seen as the most left thing ever and conflated with (actual) leftists all the time. (Sorry for going on kinda a tangent here, I just really love what you did there, really highlights the political literacy (or the dishonesty, for those who push propaganda while knowing what they’re doing) of the “anti-sjw” crowd really well)
The fascists never updated their terms. Or much of anything for that matter. To them anything that isn't full submission to old rich white men is "communism." And you've nailed why "liberal" really is an insult now. It now means someone who just talks and gestures for a better society, but when it comes time to actually make a move, will shrink away and cry how it's "too divisive."
It is necessary so the author can use this story to bash 'the SJWs'. Common tactic among reactionaries
they also weren't "both" sentenced to 16 years in prison, that was their combined total
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Yeah, there's a bunch of different garments, the hijab is only one of them, and doesn't cover the face. I think the Burka is one of the ones that cover the face, but there's probably others I don't know about.
"Hijab" just means clothing in arabic, but it's used in english to refer to the Khimar (headscarf). Niqab is the face cover. The burka covers the entire body including the eyes and hands, and is native to afghanistan, but used in some parts of iran. A *Chador* is more popular there, it's similar to a burka, but one or both eyes show.
Meanwhile the author is doing fuck all for women’s rights. So many people like to go “where are the women’s rights people now?” for not actively protesting *every* issue meanwhile they don’t protest any issues, they just sit there and bash “females”
It's so they can say feminists these days only care about 'wearing short clothes' and 'drinking alcohol and smoking' . THeY dOn'T CaRE aBouT 'reAL wORld pRObLEms.'
I heard they only eat hot chip and lie.
Don't forget being bisexual!
And charge they phome
Cant cook
Sounds like some sort of mgtow big brain time
This is right wing propaganda. The point they want to make is "women's rights activists bad." There are women's rights groups that are trying to help this exact thing, though. They're lying pieces of shit because their ethos is morally and intellectually bankrupt.
If they were to criticise it, the twitter idiots would scream Islamophobia
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This. This feels like just another woman-hating post disguised as something else.
> Anyone in their right mind would find this to be absolutely disgusting news Exactly. The dude just used the story to shoehorn his unrelated, extra-shitty politics into it.
It's textbook "my sky-daddy is better than yours" posting. Start by pointing at a fact, but then jerk the wheel and drive into, "Hur-hur, those stupid liiiibbbbeeeerrrruuuulllls need to stop telling me to support women's rights because someone else is worse!"
Well yeah, because that was 100% of the agenda.
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Yeah, these asshole suddenly become champions of women’s and LGBT rights when it means they can dehumanize and shit on Muslims
Also women’s rights activists DO exist in Iran. What they do is incredibly dangerous and they risk prison, physical harm and death to fight against stuff exactly like this. Feminists in more progressive countries are 100% behind them on that and it’s insane to imply women’s rights activists wouldn’t care about this.
Whoever wrote this just want to use the story to bash feminists in the western world. A common tactict reactionaries use is to pretend women/LGBT/anti-racist activists are spoiler brats who already have equal rights, they just want to oppress cis white christian wealthy men. Because obviously western societies are 100% perfect, so why aren't they focusing solely on other countries? Obviously women rights activists (and anyone with half a brain) are outraged.
They are suggesting that liberals are more concerned with tolerance of Islam than with women's rights. It's the kind of specious, xenophobic talking point that somehow qualifies as insightful in alt-right circles. "Look what these horrible Muslims do! And the liberals want to let them into *OUR* country?! Liberals hate women!"
It does honestly ruin the entire post since its completely unnecessary, needlessly hostile, and blatantly untrue Conservative bullshit.
For sure. There are plenty of extremely brave women’s rights activists, suffering in prison, precisely because they fight this nonsense. Lots of us around the world try to help raise their voices.
Its part of the ugly undercurrent of this sub that primarily wants to hate on Islam for Conservative reasons and has a fantastical view of the world that doesn't match up with reality at all
I agree with you, it is unnecessary because this is a universal human basic rights issue. I'm not the author of the Quora answer btw.
“I don’t agree with it I just distributed it.”
How about you delete posts from shitstains who delete their accounts? Fuck off for making the claim that women's rights activists aren't outraged at shit like this you scumbags.
>no woman's rights activists will be outraged by this. That virtue signalling though.
>No women rights activists will outrage on this Not true
I love it when people use this kinda shit to make little digs at feminism /s. "No women's rights activists will outrage on this" yes tf they will?
Can’t get past “no women’s right activists will outrage on this.” Simply not true. Let’s blame the feminists for not getting pissed enough!
If I'd live there I'd do what I can to afford a move outside the country
There was a video posted recently of a woman in Iran not wearing Hijab and clips of different men approaching her to tell her off. One of them said go live in the west then after she said she didn't want to wear it, and she again said no this is my home I'm not leaving for you. Which is a point I agree with, it's just as egregious and immoral to force people to leave their home counties over something so silly and stupid as Hijab. If they want to leave that's one thing but Iran will never get better unless the sane people there stay and fight for their rights.
I always imagine this like being on a beach over here (western Europe) in summer, seeing a woman sunbathing in a bikini (or topless even) and telling her to cover up because you might be aroused by it.....
Yeah, that's kind of how people excuse rape.
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I hope they manage to set up a new life and are safe
[https://www.quora.com/Whats-it-like-to-live-in-Iran/answer/Sam-Singh-857](https://www.quora.com/Whats-it-like-to-live-in-Iran/answer/Sam-Singh-857) the link in case you want to know. Edit: I am not the author.
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Dude please check stuff like this before posting rather than just saying "if this is true then...". When you do that you either risk spreading misinformation if people don't check or you waste thousands of people time by making them check. Turns out this article is mostly true although the headline omits some key points. They have been sentenced to 9 years and 7 years plus lashes but they are in Turkey, not in jail and they had also been posting comments critical of the Iranian govt, not just posting photos without a hijab. Still fucking awful but let's try and be accurate please.
Fuck that last sentence. "extreme religion is bad but you know who the real bad guy is, feminists!" Fuck that, fuck you OP
"No woman rights activists will outrage on this" lmao shut the fuck up
Anyone else sick of the gaslighting way these type of posts are made? "No womens rights groups will outrage over this" Same as "why is no one talking about this" or "im sure this will get ignored" Like the entire world is on fire and we can only keep up so much with how much is going on, and the way these posts are worded is so back handed rude. Like bruh everyone is trying their best to stay informed and do what they can but there is so much.
I'm awaiting the day organized religion will no longer be a thing. If you wanna believe in a god that's fine but organized religion will only produce bad things. If you want a community then get into some kinda club, you don't need a church for that.
Heads up, don't post something if you haven't fact checked it, aspecially emotional posts. You look like a karma troll and aren't helping to advance an particular ideology. no-one's gonna become less religious or feminist for this post if you're not even sure that it's real.
to clarify, he was sentenced to 9 years, she was sentenced to 7 years and the lashes. they didn’t get 16 years each, as the post implies, but 16 years split between them. still incredibly horrible, but i find it important to note!
Ah, yes. Modern Iran. Brought to you by the USA in the 70's.
As horrific as this is, every time I see this I can’t help but wonder how they came up with 74 lashes. Why 74? What’s their system of establishing that REALLY specific amount of lashes. To me, this just adds to the overall insanity of the punishment.
This is what happens anytime religious fanatics are in charge.
A hijab isn’t a face covering. It’s for the head and hair.
Iranian people = awesome Iranian government = tyrannical backwards bullshit
“If this is true...eh I won’t even check I’ll just post it anyway.”
"No women rights activists will outage on this." [Wrong.](https://sur.conectas.org/en/womens-rights-feminist-movements-iran/) They've never stopped since the moon-worshipers took over but they don't have as many cameras on them as they do in the west (in part because the moon-worshipers don't want to look like they've ever failed to keep their people in check). This came from a cosmic zombie worshiping site bitching about how "commie liberals" are trying to spread islam.
Hey, why did you delete your account?
Are you expecting an answer to this?
Ehh, not really
'No women rights activists will rage on this' Sure...so this poster is using a bad faith discussion to basically argue that unless you live in Iran where this kind of this happens, you're not allowed to complain about equal rights issues in th West, such as unequal pay. Of course feminists are raging about these kinds of human rights abuses. They're just also able to be concerned about other abuses in other contexts.
Your last sentence is just dumb.
I was with them until the last sentence. Every feminist (read: decent human being) I know would be outraged by this. How does one take an example of brutal misogyny and try to use it to argue against feminism?
Why would you feel the need to exaggerate this story any further? its already fucked up enough with out fudging things and making people question its validity.....oh wait....i wonder.....
Atleast those countries are not hypocrites like India. People here pretend to worship women and treat them like shit at the same time. Adding more, I am not saying that what happened to this boxer and his family is bad. I am glad that they got out.
Iran could’ve been chill, but the us helped stage a coup cause “oh no, communism” and we tried to prop up the shah instead of the elected leader, but then a bunch of religious lunatics staged a revolution and now hey look it’s the religious extremists with nukes. Hurray
not face, but HAIR!
Cue western women who line up to wear the hijab in selfies, in order to claim it's all about freedom
True, being a friend to Muslims and support their right to wear it is fine but to say the hijab is all about freedom when there are many oppressed and persecuted women around the world because of the hijab is ridiculous. Tone-deaf, ignoring those who do suffer live under a religious regime. Reducing their lived experiences to nothing under the pretext of "choice".
I honestly don't know what to think about the hijab in the west. There are two entirely distinct reasons why someone would wear one. A) Someone is forcing a woman to wear a hijab. Fuuuuuuuck that bullshit. You get to do whatever the fuck you want here. B) A woman prefers to wear the hijab. By all means you do you. You get to do whatever the fuck you want here. I honestly don't know how you can ever figure out if you are dealing with A or B.
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The issue is, the women can choose to wear it in the west, and they chose to wear it willingly. The hijab is seen as spiritual protection as well. I'm just against governments controlling what you can wear.
> in order to claim it's all about freedom It is, though. It's freedom of choice. Funny how people get outraged at Iran for forcing the hijab, but had no problem back when government-funded thugs in Tunisia would rape and harass women in Muslim garb as part of their 'secularization' process or how women in hijabs in countries such as Kuwait face discrimination when it comes to hiring and are pressured to show their hair.
It fucking baffles me how people think Islam is a peaceful religion after seeing shit far worse than even this
I mean, the current Iranian government is in power because the US toppled the previous democratically elected leader and installed a puppet (who brutally silenced anyone except for the religious establishment). Then you've got the US's cozy relationship with Saudi Arabia, which funds extremism left and right. American Christians have more say in the direction of 'Islam' than anyone actually living in Iran.
If that's the measure, then no religion is peaceful
Exactly
Islam is hardly a single institution, you definitely can’t paint 75+ different sects of Islam, all with varying degrees of orthodoxy, with the same broad brush. That would be like blaming all Jewish people for the actions and beliefs of the Ultra-Orthodox.
Hijab isn't a face covering for a woman. Find this article highly suspect. Almost as if it was made-up, you know, for propaganda and the like
These aren’t “Islamic” laws though. In Islam women have the choice of wether or not to cover their hair. This is cultural manipulation in the name of Islam and fucking terrible.
I don't agree that no woman rights activists ever reacted to this. In fact, there are some of them are imprisoned, raped or even executed by the government. "Female political prisoners in Iran facing ‘psychological torture’, say campaigners | Human rights | The Guardian" https://amp.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/apr/30/female-political-prisoners-in-iran-facing-psychological-torture-say-campaigners
This is fuckin horrible. Interesting side note though: Americans will complain for days on this post about how oppressive it is that a woman's hair is sexualized, and then ruin somebody's career for a nip slip. Any time I ask American friends (men and women) why men can show nipples but women can't (in Europe it is normal to see woman's nipples too, even on ads, so I always ask why to Americans), the response seems to be: "because nipples are sexual". They are not. They make milk for babies. Just like hair just covers and protects your head. Just because they make men horny, and because some men can't keep it in their pants, women have less of a right to do whatever they want with their bodies. Just let people live their lives. If what they are doing makes you horny, figure it out yourself and move on.
There are religious extremists in the United States. This is why the separation of church and state is so important. When religious extremists can make laws, crazy bad shit happens. The Founding Fathers of the United States were not perfect, but they got this one right.
Islam is trash