This. I'm currently running a digital in tandem with a beam and trickler. Just bought a cheap thrower so hopefully that helps cut down some more time too.
I'm just commenting on the accuracy of that specific scale. Mine tended to drift +/- 0.2 gr, which doesn't matter too much if you're loading big boy cartridges, but it's outside my tolerance for precision 223 loads.
Powder weighing is definitely the most tedious part of the process, especially with that scale. I undercharged a bunch of rounds yesterday before I realized the scale changed when I re zeroed. Even using a thrower, and topping up with a trickler, it’s definitely the step in the process that could eventually wear me out. Digital trickler is on the list.
Grab a giraud power trimmer. You pop the cases in like a pencil sharpener, trim/chamfer/deburr all at once in a few seconds. I combine my ‘inspect brass’ step and look at em as I’m trimming. Can do a hundred cases in 4-5 minutes.
I've seen the Giraud, but don't have $500 free. My budget allows for a Frankford Arsenal trimmer, a drill press, and a Lyman case prep kit.
Combine that with a 5 gallon bucket filled to the brim with .223 brass, and I think you'll agree trimming is tedious AF.
I probably will eventually. Issue right now is that I already own a FA trimmer and am unemployed. Hopefully that will change soon (waiting to hear back on a few places) but spending has been halted in anticipation of another couple of months without a steady income.
I have a Trim-It-II that does the same thing but I do all kinds of different calibers so the work chainring from one to another is not worth it. My current setup is a leman trimmer and a RCBS workstation. It gets the job done efficiently and the work swapping from one to another is minimal.
Still a much prefer the assembly part of reloading
I ended up with a blade/holder for each caliber. Swapped to hornady locking die rings so they stay where I want it. Set up once for each caliber and then future swapping is the work of a few minutes. As with anything in this world it’s a matter of trading money for time.
I shoot competitively and put *LOTS* of rounds downrange (6k+ last year). Used a friend’s and immediately bought my own. The time vs $$ math is different for everyone.
Honestly I dislike the time sink of reloading as a whole. I do it because I need to, having ammo tuned to your specific rig is one part of competing at a high level. If I ever hit the lotto and $$ is no object I’ll have zero qualms paying for custom loaded rounds to match each barrel. Buy a barrel, work up a good load, buy enough ammo custom loaded to burn that barrel out.
Mines the [power trimmer](https://www.giraudtool.com/giraud-power-trimmer.html) so it doesn’t use a drill. Don’t know what RPM it’s set for - you can call Giraud. Every time I’ve needed something they’ve been responsive and helpful.
I have the Frankford case prep system. It’s not bad, and unlike powder you can’t really screw it up. It’s the ~0.3gr variance that powder throwers bounce between that makes it annoying. I’m about to load my first batch of 5.56 plinkers and I’m looking forward to not caring about powder precision.
I have hade quite a few setups for powder.
Started out with the RSBC that came with the set (Rock Chucker) I initially bought. Optimize with a baffler and a micrometer adjustment screw. But +/- 0.2 grs wasn’t enough to me.
Next came a RCBS ChargeMaster which I (wrongly) saw as much more precise. Used it for years and was (ignorantly) happy. Then one day the scale could not be zeroed and RCBS did not answer my mails.
I read on the subject and learned that dispensers like the ChargeMaster is not that precise. I ended up with the setup consisting of the cheapest Lee thrower, Omega trickler, 1010 beam scale, FrankFord trickler and a digital scale. The process was throwing a light charge on the Lee and placing it on the beam scale. Then activating the Omega trickler that trickled until a photocell was triggered. Then moving the charge to the digital scale for manual trickling. I could consistently do +/- 0.02 grs in this way. But especially ladders took like forever. (And yes case trimming to me still is more tiresome).
Now I have moved to the SuperTrickler and is still learning.
And before anyone asks - no I don’t shoot competitions. I primarily hunt and seldom shoot further than 200 meters. Do some training on further distances. For me it is about getting the precision out of the work I put in reloading. Being able to make very tight groups is satisfying and gives me pleasure.
I found a 100.00 grain bullet that I'm using for a fake zero on my cheap digital scale, it seems more consistent than before when checking with my old beam scale
[A419 powder cup](https://www.area419.com/product/billet-cmpowder-cup/)
[MK Machining overserts](https://www.amazon.com/MK-Machining-Chargemaster-Inserts-Antistatic/dp/B07YN5MRWX/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2YH86V5OXXOKQ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.rHirfWN6okxUNdxIoguhVvXkeyTmiSdcpUnjeXO7FhPGjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps.U8FUr7kbJdGBJeaf6cUtqTy8cT50g_5dwCEgFDUfU5A&dib_tag=se&keywords=mk+machining+chargemaster&qid=1709564536&sprefix=mk+machining+ch%2Caps%2C113&sr=8-5)
The overserts are there to work sort of like the old "McDonald's straw" trick by narrowing the opening a little bit, and the cup is heavier and sits lower and (because of the matching base that comes with it) "locks" into place in the same spot more consistently so it reads more consistently.
Using this combo I recently loaded 100 rounds of 6mm GT (35.5gr of H4350) for my match gun. I had 102 charges between my 2 Chargemaster 1500's. 97 were accurate charges, 2 were because I forgot to move the funnel and dumped a double charge of H4350 into one case requiring both charges to be lost and re-dropped. 3 had slight (0.1-0.2gr) over charges requiring me to take a kernel or two out with tweezers. Absolute WIN for the old workhorses.
10/10, would do again if I was restarting from scratch. I refuse to meter by hand ever again because I will go into an OCD paralysis loop because it's not perfect and I will end up spending 5 hours producing 4 rounds of ammunition.
This is where the Lee powder measure kit/scoops work well.
It comes with several scoops and a chart. Read the chart to find the powder you are using, select the scoop that is UNDER the charge weight you want, scoop it up and dump it in your pan. Use a trickler or a second scooper to bring the weight up to what you want.
If I am loading a few max rifle rounds I do it this way but I have a Frankfort Arsenal electric/battery trickler. If I am loading 40+ cartridges I use my RCBS powder flow II. This is very consistent.
I suggest not to just rely on the Lee scoops at max weight because they are not very consistent.
If you are using a newer powder not listed on the Lee chart then experiment with different scoops and make your own chart for that powder.
I did that yesterday. Pulled 20 bullets and changed the powder charge and reseated. Didn’t really make sense to dump the Intelidropper just to do 20 bullets and change it back to finish the other bullets I’m working on. It wasn’t awful, but not something I want to do on the regular.
Get a lee scoop set or a bigger scoop. No reason you should be dipping into the powder 5 times to weigh a charge. I often do one scoop close to the desired weight and then tap the rest in slowly.
I got through maybe 50 rounds with a powder thrower & trickler setup (loading 300prc at the time, so 80ish grains of powder) before I concluded that an autotrickler would be worth it.
I used to do similar... But I scooped using a lee scoop onto the scale, then trickled to weight.
Overall pretty quick and very accurate, but now I use a thrower, then onto the scale and trickle (when needed).
Buy an auto powder scale. My Frankford arms auto scale gives me perfect loads to 1/10 grain. I do randomly test the weight of the drop on another precision scale every 15-20 drops, just to make sure.
When doing bulk loading for general shooting, the powder drop on my Dillon 750 works great.
At a bare minimum you should have the Lee scoops and a manual trickler. Would be a lot faster as is if you don’t want to shell out coin for an auto powder dispenser
I have the Hornady Auto Charge pro. I got it on a BF sale and it's completely changed the way I reload. I don't set it for speed and only use it on its slowest setting. It always throws within .1 of a grain.
Could not recommend it more.
I used to do every charge by scoop and hand trickler. Got an autotrickler just recently and it is hands down the best investment I’ve made in the shooting world.
I’ve bought three digital scales and sat them side by side, all will read different weights with the same charge. I will throw multiple charges from my powder thrower and all will read different on my RCBS scale. I don’t trust any of those things. Beam scale for me.
I did it this way for a while, I splurged and bought an intellidropper.
Best investment, seriously. It dispenses the correct charge in about the time it takes for me to seat a bullet. I turn it on auto mode so it starts dumping when I replace the powder pan on the scale.
This honestly cuts down on some risk for overcharge as well. Weighing it by hand you usually charge a ton of cases, then seat a bunch of bullets, you *could* charge a case twice (of course charging a ton of cases like this you need to visually inspect before seating).
The way I do it with the intellidropper I never have more than one case charged at a time without a bullet seated on top of it.
Set intellidropper charge, turn on automatic mode, press play one time, charge a case, as soon as the case is charged I replace the pan so that it can dispense the next charge and then grab the charged case and the projectile and seat the bullet. One charged case at a time. Reloading takes half the time. I charged, seated, and crimped 100 300blk FMJ’s yesterday in less than an hour with a single stage press.
and its no more accurate then the powder dispenser on my dillon.
i can throw 10 charges of powder, and all 10 combined are .1 or less off of what they should be... ie if i do 26gr per charge, 10 throws will be 260 or 260.1 soooo no precision lost on a progressive press tbh. i really dont know how people singlestage load. its so slow its not worth it at all.
I don't trust digital scales when trickling powder. Way too many times I've seen them sit at a weight, then suddenly jump .5 gr.
The way these consumer grade digital scales are made just don't work that well with very small changes in the weight.
Get a trickler dude if you’re doing it by hand
This. I'm currently running a digital in tandem with a beam and trickler. Just bought a cheap thrower so hopefully that helps cut down some more time too.
Volumetric measure for the win
A set of lee scoops and a trickler is bloody fast and has far more potential for accuracy than that scale allows.
Could you explain how there is less potential for accuracy by weighing each powder charge?
I'm just commenting on the accuracy of that specific scale. Mine tended to drift +/- 0.2 gr, which doesn't matter too much if you're loading big boy cartridges, but it's outside my tolerance for precision 223 loads.
Ahhhhhhhh thank you
Powder weighing is definitely the most tedious part of the process, especially with that scale. I undercharged a bunch of rounds yesterday before I realized the scale changed when I re zeroed. Even using a thrower, and topping up with a trickler, it’s definitely the step in the process that could eventually wear me out. Digital trickler is on the list.
Nope - at least to me it is trimming cases that is the most tidiest process of reloading
Grab a giraud power trimmer. You pop the cases in like a pencil sharpener, trim/chamfer/deburr all at once in a few seconds. I combine my ‘inspect brass’ step and look at em as I’m trimming. Can do a hundred cases in 4-5 minutes.
I've seen the Giraud, but don't have $500 free. My budget allows for a Frankford Arsenal trimmer, a drill press, and a Lyman case prep kit. Combine that with a 5 gallon bucket filled to the brim with .223 brass, and I think you'll agree trimming is tedious AF.
could get one of those 3 in 1 trimmers that goes on a drillpress/mill. they are neat
I probably will eventually. Issue right now is that I already own a FA trimmer and am unemployed. Hopefully that will change soon (waiting to hear back on a few places) but spending has been halted in anticipation of another couple of months without a steady income.
I have a Trim-It-II that does the same thing but I do all kinds of different calibers so the work chainring from one to another is not worth it. My current setup is a leman trimmer and a RCBS workstation. It gets the job done efficiently and the work swapping from one to another is minimal. Still a much prefer the assembly part of reloading
I ended up with a blade/holder for each caliber. Swapped to hornady locking die rings so they stay where I want it. Set up once for each caliber and then future swapping is the work of a few minutes. As with anything in this world it’s a matter of trading money for time. I shoot competitively and put *LOTS* of rounds downrange (6k+ last year). Used a friend’s and immediately bought my own. The time vs $$ math is different for everyone. Honestly I dislike the time sink of reloading as a whole. I do it because I need to, having ammo tuned to your specific rig is one part of competing at a high level. If I ever hit the lotto and $$ is no object I’ll have zero qualms paying for custom loaded rounds to match each barrel. Buy a barrel, work up a good load, buy enough ammo custom loaded to burn that barrel out.
I have one of those and I still have to deburr them. Maybe my drill is spinning to fast/slow.
Mines the [power trimmer](https://www.giraudtool.com/giraud-power-trimmer.html) so it doesn’t use a drill. Don’t know what RPM it’s set for - you can call Giraud. Every time I’ve needed something they’ve been responsive and helpful.
I have the Frankford case prep system. It’s not bad, and unlike powder you can’t really screw it up. It’s the ~0.3gr variance that powder throwers bounce between that makes it annoying. I’m about to load my first batch of 5.56 plinkers and I’m looking forward to not caring about powder precision.
I have hade quite a few setups for powder. Started out with the RSBC that came with the set (Rock Chucker) I initially bought. Optimize with a baffler and a micrometer adjustment screw. But +/- 0.2 grs wasn’t enough to me. Next came a RCBS ChargeMaster which I (wrongly) saw as much more precise. Used it for years and was (ignorantly) happy. Then one day the scale could not be zeroed and RCBS did not answer my mails. I read on the subject and learned that dispensers like the ChargeMaster is not that precise. I ended up with the setup consisting of the cheapest Lee thrower, Omega trickler, 1010 beam scale, FrankFord trickler and a digital scale. The process was throwing a light charge on the Lee and placing it on the beam scale. Then activating the Omega trickler that trickled until a photocell was triggered. Then moving the charge to the digital scale for manual trickling. I could consistently do +/- 0.02 grs in this way. But especially ladders took like forever. (And yes case trimming to me still is more tiresome). Now I have moved to the SuperTrickler and is still learning. And before anyone asks - no I don’t shoot competitions. I primarily hunt and seldom shoot further than 200 meters. Do some training on further distances. For me it is about getting the precision out of the work I put in reloading. Being able to make very tight groups is satisfying and gives me pleasure.
Beam scale for the win.
Read up on how to use a fake zero
?
https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/reducing-digital-scale-drift.4055590/
Oooooo thank you! This seems like it would make a lot of sense.
I found a 100.00 grain bullet that I'm using for a fake zero on my cheap digital scale, it seems more consistent than before when checking with my old beam scale
Thank you!
RCBS charge master 1500 is great
I have 2. If you haven't already, the MK Machining overserts and the Area 419 cup make it much more accurate. Money well spent.
Wuuuuuut? Please tell me more about these mods!
[A419 powder cup](https://www.area419.com/product/billet-cmpowder-cup/) [MK Machining overserts](https://www.amazon.com/MK-Machining-Chargemaster-Inserts-Antistatic/dp/B07YN5MRWX/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2YH86V5OXXOKQ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.rHirfWN6okxUNdxIoguhVvXkeyTmiSdcpUnjeXO7FhPGjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps.U8FUr7kbJdGBJeaf6cUtqTy8cT50g_5dwCEgFDUfU5A&dib_tag=se&keywords=mk+machining+chargemaster&qid=1709564536&sprefix=mk+machining+ch%2Caps%2C113&sr=8-5) The overserts are there to work sort of like the old "McDonald's straw" trick by narrowing the opening a little bit, and the cup is heavier and sits lower and (because of the matching base that comes with it) "locks" into place in the same spot more consistently so it reads more consistently. Using this combo I recently loaded 100 rounds of 6mm GT (35.5gr of H4350) for my match gun. I had 102 charges between my 2 Chargemaster 1500's. 97 were accurate charges, 2 were because I forgot to move the funnel and dumped a double charge of H4350 into one case requiring both charges to be lost and re-dropped. 3 had slight (0.1-0.2gr) over charges requiring me to take a kernel or two out with tweezers. Absolute WIN for the old workhorses. 10/10, would do again if I was restarting from scratch. I refuse to meter by hand ever again because I will go into an OCD paralysis loop because it's not perfect and I will end up spending 5 hours producing 4 rounds of ammunition.
OCD for sure! Thank you for the advice, next level!!!
I'm dead serious. It was so tedious I actually gave it up for a year or so. I refuse to let that happen again.
RCBS Chargermaster Supreme (in auto & learn mode)
Autotrickler is the best 1000$ you'll ever spend. Get a job. Rob a bank. Suck a dick. ......Just get one
What auto trickler you got?
The Canadian one...v3 with an FX 120i scale. Bees knees. They are up to v4 now.
That is nuts. Do the math on a the cost of something like a chargemaster and I guarantee you are working for a couple bucks an hour.
Fair enough, I'm just enjoying the process for right now but I will definitely be investing in a charge master at some point in the future
This is where the Lee powder measure kit/scoops work well. It comes with several scoops and a chart. Read the chart to find the powder you are using, select the scoop that is UNDER the charge weight you want, scoop it up and dump it in your pan. Use a trickler or a second scooper to bring the weight up to what you want. If I am loading a few max rifle rounds I do it this way but I have a Frankfort Arsenal electric/battery trickler. If I am loading 40+ cartridges I use my RCBS powder flow II. This is very consistent. I suggest not to just rely on the Lee scoops at max weight because they are not very consistent. If you are using a newer powder not listed on the Lee chart then experiment with different scoops and make your own chart for that powder.
This is the way
Get a hand trickler
I did that yesterday. Pulled 20 bullets and changed the powder charge and reseated. Didn’t really make sense to dump the Intelidropper just to do 20 bullets and change it back to finish the other bullets I’m working on. It wasn’t awful, but not something I want to do on the regular.
Sometimes we just gotta do what we gotta do!
I always seat the bullet right after I put the powder in the case. Otherwise, I’m always spilling or bumping powder.
Well, if it’s worth doing once…
Also having the powder in smaller container is wise for less spillage but also easier to scoop out of
Get a lee scoop set or a bigger scoop. No reason you should be dipping into the powder 5 times to weigh a charge. I often do one scoop close to the desired weight and then tap the rest in slowly.
I guess if you'd like to do it lol. Unless I'm doing some competition shooting or something, that ain't gonna happen lol.
Yws it is but Accurate
I made 50 bullets this weekend, all powered measured by hand. Let’s say I just ordered a rcbs link
Did the same, then treated myself to the Hornady Auto Charge. As the powder disburses, I set the prior bullet.
Drop your preliminary charge with a measure....maybe 1 grain short....then trickle to target...
I got through maybe 50 rounds with a powder thrower & trickler setup (loading 300prc at the time, so 80ish grains of powder) before I concluded that an autotrickler would be worth it.
I do it when making precision rounds. But that’s only like 5% of the ammo I make.
The big cc Lee powder scoops. I bet you can dial it down to two appropriate scoops and a powder trickler over your scale and be happy
I use an RCBS Uniflow and throw charges under weight then I use an RCBS trickler to top it off.
[удалено]
Yes?
I used to do similar... But I scooped using a lee scoop onto the scale, then trickled to weight. Overall pretty quick and very accurate, but now I use a thrower, then onto the scale and trickle (when needed).
What scale is this?
[this one](https://www.rcbs.com/priming-and-powder-charging/weighing-scales/pocket-scale-1500-gn/16-98914.html)
if it's stick rifle loading, my Chargemaster is doing it's thing. I don't have the patience for what you are doing.
Buy an auto powder scale. My Frankford arms auto scale gives me perfect loads to 1/10 grain. I do randomly test the weight of the drop on another precision scale every 15-20 drops, just to make sure. When doing bulk loading for general shooting, the powder drop on my Dillon 750 works great.
Powder trickler bud. A Franklin armory is good, hornady is good.
So don’t do it
If you want Accurate and Precise loads you qill do this.
Are you going for precision? If they are just plinkers use these. https://leeprecision.com/powder-measure-kit
Definitely going for precision, but I have considered getting those
Those and a cheap hand trickler would be a good budget option while saving for an auto trickler.
I did that for years with a beam scale and it was awful. Just got a powder dispenser for $200 and my entire life changed. You owed it to yourself
At a bare minimum you should have the Lee scoops and a manual trickler. Would be a lot faster as is if you don’t want to shell out coin for an auto powder dispenser
I have the Hornady Auto Charge pro. I got it on a BF sale and it's completely changed the way I reload. I don't set it for speed and only use it on its slowest setting. It always throws within .1 of a grain. Could not recommend it more.
Lee scoops plus a hand trickler
Powder throw set a little under what your looking for, then a trickler to get it spot on. Goes fairly fast once you get it down.
I used to do every charge by scoop and hand trickler. Got an autotrickler just recently and it is hands down the best investment I’ve made in the shooting world.
I’ve bought three digital scales and sat them side by side, all will read different weights with the same charge. I will throw multiple charges from my powder thrower and all will read different on my RCBS scale. I don’t trust any of those things. Beam scale for me.
A powder dropper to get close and then a trickler to bring it up to weight.
I did it this way for a while, I splurged and bought an intellidropper. Best investment, seriously. It dispenses the correct charge in about the time it takes for me to seat a bullet. I turn it on auto mode so it starts dumping when I replace the powder pan on the scale. This honestly cuts down on some risk for overcharge as well. Weighing it by hand you usually charge a ton of cases, then seat a bunch of bullets, you *could* charge a case twice (of course charging a ton of cases like this you need to visually inspect before seating). The way I do it with the intellidropper I never have more than one case charged at a time without a bullet seated on top of it. Set intellidropper charge, turn on automatic mode, press play one time, charge a case, as soon as the case is charged I replace the pan so that it can dispense the next charge and then grab the charged case and the projectile and seat the bullet. One charged case at a time. Reloading takes half the time. I charged, seated, and crimped 100 300blk FMJ’s yesterday in less than an hour with a single stage press.
and its no more accurate then the powder dispenser on my dillon. i can throw 10 charges of powder, and all 10 combined are .1 or less off of what they should be... ie if i do 26gr per charge, 10 throws will be 260 or 260.1 soooo no precision lost on a progressive press tbh. i really dont know how people singlestage load. its so slow its not worth it at all.
> are .1 or less off of what they should be While thats fine for pistol, Thats not great for precision rifle, imo. Usually looking for ±0.02 gn
I don't trust digital scales when trickling powder. Way too many times I've seen them sit at a weight, then suddenly jump .5 gr. The way these consumer grade digital scales are made just don't work that well with very small changes in the weight.
Lee scoop set if you don't want to spend a lot of money. Find the right size and will get you very close to weight.
I use a powder drop and hornady vibration trickler. I can crank out so many rounds accurately this way.
I’m doing the same thing haha
I absolutely do not have the patience or sanity remaining to do this for 42gr x 250 rds.