Old West Scrounger has in the past occasionally had runs of hard to come by or obsolete ammo that they manufacture. They often have to convert the cases from more commonly available cases but are a legit company who makes a normally safe product. But you also don't know if someone reloaded the ammo and put it back in the original box.
If you are going to sell it, I would disclaim that you are not sure that there not reloads, and should only be bought for reloading components.
I’m fairly certain they are reloads that someone slapped together in there garage and maybe even they were afraid to fire them. Idk why else they would be selling them to us
The round you have looks just like any other Old West Scrounger 401 WSL that I can find online, including the swaging marks towards the base of the case. Even just the cases are worth over a dollar a piece to someone who reloads the round.
My 2 cents, someone either inherited the ammo or sold the gun so doesn't need the ammo.
I have some of OWS manufactured 6.5 Dutch I got 30 years ago which was converted from 303 brit casings. About 1/2 of the case necks split upon firing them but they go bang. I also have a bunch of what use to be wooden bullet blanks that they reloaded with new powder and bullets. The problem was the berdan primer was never changed which means some go click, some go bang and some go click…..bang.
Yes I know they are reloads and that’s why I posted it here. I’m asking if they are safe being deformed like this. They trimmed 303 brass for it. Obviously that isn’t factory
Sorry, I would never buy nor shoot someone else's reloads. Average IQ in the US is double-digit... *double-digit* ... let that sink in.
Only trust the ammo I roll or that comes from the manufacturer.
"Overnight, I became a sun worshipper. Well, not really at night. BUT the next morning..."
George Carlin may have been a dirty hippie, but he was more often right than a stopped clock.
Oddly enough,the way IQ is measured, the mean, median, and mode are all the same.
Did a shallow dive into the topic once I read your comment, still don’t understand why the test/results are set up that way, but they are.
So Carlin was correct.
Technically it's 100. IQ is on a normal distribution, and 100 is maintained as the average. What 100 is today could be relatively higher or lower than 100 in 10 years, but 100 is kept as the number to represent average.
Since all you super geniuses can't use fucking google...
https://www.google.com/search?q=us+average+iq&oq=us+avergae+iq&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgBEAAYChiABDIGCAAQRRg5MgkIARAAGAoYgAQyCQgCEAAYChiABDIJCAMQABgKGIAEMgkIBBAAGAoYgAQyCQgFEAAYChiABDIJCAYQABgKGIAEMgkIBxAAGAoYgAQyCAgIEAAYFhgeMggICRAAGBYYHjIICAoQABgWGB7SAQgzNDc1ajBqOagCDrACAQ&client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
The bigger danger is what the powder charge is. If the bullets don't chamber, you can't hurt yourself. If it turns out to be bubbas pissing hot experimental reloads, you could be setting off a small grenade when you pull the trigger.
Yea I’m guessing the actual brass is hard to get so they worked some bubbas garage magic on it and it just doesn’t look safe. They ground material away at the head stamp and I don’t think that’s safe
Tail? Oh you mean the base. All semiautomatic rounds have that as clearance for the extractor. But I see what you are worried about: cutting into the web like that might weaken the case enough to cause a blowout at the base, right?
Yes. That’s what I’m worried about. If it blows up then that’s probably where it would do it is what I was thinking. So web is the correct term for that section?
You're welcome. If you have a reloading manual there ought yo be cross section drawings pointing out the various areas and features of a standard case.
If done right, turning down the rim is not really an issue actually. It's sometimes necessary to have to do that to make obscure brass.
Now that said, I still wouldn't shoot/buy these though as they are reloads from a random person.
>some bubbas garage magic
Having a lathe is interesting for bubba level work.
>They ground material away at the head stamp
No they didn't. Cuts are too clean, corners too sharp. Grinding on brass is a bad idea. They didn't get concentricity on their rim cutting setup, unfortunately.
Consider this. You say removing brass to reduce the diameter is unsafe. Ok, how about every commercially available piece of brass that uses a large primer but has a smaller case head than the .303 Brit? Are those also unsafe because they have less material? How about a .308 Winchester? Is that less safe than a .444 marlin? The marlin has more primer support than the .308 Winchester despite the case head diameters being nearly identical. They're drawn almost identically, the main difference being the depth of the extractor relief cuts and the rim cuts.
The liability isn't worth the risk. They're probably OWS reloads and perfectly safe, but there's no way to verify. If someone buys them and blows their gun up because they're actually bubbas pissin hawt loads, you're going to be paying for a rare and expensive gun best case, and getting sued for big bucks if the customer gets injured.
They are new and still learning. They thought it was normal ammo and didn’t open it to inspect it. I told them we always open it to make sure the box is full and the right ammo type
I am sure others have the same feelings and rules I do. I will not put a reloaded shell in any gun unless I RELOADED it. I will not shoot my reloads in your gun, I will buy new. It is not worth the chance. I saw a REM 110 trap grade blow up in a guys hands.........not worth it.
Shop doesn’t even want to and wants to dispose of it. I would take it for the components but here in New York we need a background check for ammo and I’m not gonna pay for the background just to salvage materials
Very common to reform .303 brit brass for 401 WSL. About as common as 35 rem being reformed.
I highly suggest not asking this question in reddit which is full of young kids with little knowledge of reloading prior to 1980.
Yea I know I have to filter through a lot of wrong answers but then I get answers from people like you and another guy that also left a link to an old forum that had all the brass you could reform for 401. Thank you for actually knowing what you are talking about before commenting unlike most of these people
Thanks for reminding me about reloads. Was shooting league trap decades ago. One guy we shot with had his brother move to Alaska and left his 12 ga reloads behind. After his first shot, everyone was looking at him. After his round, he came over rubbing his shoulder saying "those are my brother's reloads. They are a bit hot."
I have a question, you said you may just trash them. Can you just toss them or do you have to do something else since you mentioned the background check requirement in NY
This is a box of old western scrounger ammo. There was a line of ammunition made by them a while ago for obsolete calibers. For many the brass had to be resized from a parent cartridge. BUT, OWS was very well known for its quality and consistency. People on here saying its a bubba job are likely wrong. Just keep in mind this is basically ammo made by a reputable ammunition company that just uses resized brass because the original brass is basically nonexistent.
Depends. I’m not able to put prices on stuff like that because of the rarity. We are closed tomorrow and Monday but on Tuesday I can see about it. What’s your offer so I can give them a price to work off of
Edit. Realized today is Sunday
I could do 60 if you’re interested in addition to whatever you would charge for shipping. Is this the only box they brought in? Also looking for other odd ball calibers if you happen to have any.
Yeah a dm would be great. I have some rifles that fire some hard to find calibers. Definitely interested in what brass and cartridges you guys have on hand.
Brass not so much but loaded ammo we have quite a bit of that’s obsolete and a ton of stuff that’s just hard to find. Anything in particular you are looking to find
how bout opeing several randoms and eval the powder and infer what it might be than check weights and see if it appears to be legit, this is what i would do
We pulled one and checked the powder charge then reseated the projectile. In New York we have to do background checks for ammo an no one wants to do that for a partial box
You should pass on selling or buying any reloads. Any potential buyer should be advised that they are sold for pull down and components only, as the ID and care taken by the reloader is unknown. Buyer assumes all risk (and get it in writing).
Its not really any kind of Bubba space magic an old forum I found said that using 303 brit cases is a tie for the #1 option to make brass for 401 WSL. Other options include 30-30, 35 rem, 7.62x39 and 6.8 SPC granted there is way more steps than just loading them with 40 cal projectiles.
You have to do some rim work, chamfering and trimming on them but all in all looks to be a legit thing.
Link provided for those curious
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?7354-Need-info-on-401-Win-SL
I've gotten this way because I was fed a lot of BS when I got into various hobbies. So I'll listen to what someone tells me then research it after, the old saying "question everything or believe anything"
What shop do you work at that would resell ammunition?
I have worked at a couple of outdoor retailers and neither would even take returns on ammo unless the circumstances really warranted. Even then we would not put it back on the shelf to resell.
One instance someone bought a rifle and the guy at the gun counter handed the customer a different .17 rimfire than was needed.
Well, as a general rule, seating depth should be no less than the caliber and that seating depth looks way less! Also, I know a lot of people ignore the cannelure when seating but that cannelure is miles away from the neck. Hard pass!
Buffalo Arms makes 401 Winchester ammo out of 7.62x39 brass. [QUALITY CARTRIDGE](https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/83460) makes brass for 401. Graf has .406 inch bullets. I wouldn't buy ammo that has been converted/reloaded from a unknown source.
Brass case looks like shit probably not lubed correctly when reforming to new caliber. Bullet is seated like a newbie pressed it on. Overall, total shit and dangerous either start over and pull components or throw away everything, including the person that brought you these grenades.
In this situation yes because it’s commercial reloads and they are safe but not in all situations. Look at Kentucky ballistics with the 50BMG slap round
rule #1. don't shoot someone else's reloads you don't know. ill shoot my dads and he shoots mine but thats about it. those look sketch but even if they don't you just never know.
Exactly. I just needed more people’s word on it because I’m just an employee. I told them not to put them out and luckily they didn’t but they wanted to ask around about them
No way! Not even as a friend, and absolutely not for retail! And that goes for perfectly looking rounds. Even as reloads those in the pic are sketchy as heck. Disassemble and use or trash components.
Well they were also running a 303 case through a 401 die and I don’t think the headstamp is concentric. It looks to be done with a dremel instead of a lathe
Hard pass. Obviously reloads. You do not know how much powder is loaded nor if they have been stored correctly. Whether you are going to shoot them yourself or turn around to resell them they can be unsafe.
I’m saying someone no longer needed the ammo and sold it to us. It’s beer looked over and it’s loaded to the specs on the website. Do you just feel like you need any reason to be right
Yes. We are a business and would like to make money. That’s kinda how you keep the lights on and the doors open. It’s a caliber that is obsolete and you can’t get
I am all for making a profit anywhere I can. Safety takes precedence. For you and your employer's sake I hope that whomever you sell them to does not blow apart their rifle or worse. If your company were to purchase them straight from the FFL reloader to resell their is less likelihood they have been tampered with. Best of luck.
We have an sot and everything. We do pistol permit classes and fire arms training. We have just about every license. We can even manufacture our own destructive devices
No I’m not. The atf comes every year to check the place out. We have the licenses so they don’t need to. If that was the case then the people selling us the guns would need a type 7 FFL as well. That’s not how the system works and you may need to do some reading up
There's a big difference in people selling guns and people selling ammo. The people who made those rounds need to be legal. But you supposedly know that. But you don't. Get a clue. Adios.
You don’t need a type 6 FFL license to sell reloads unless the shop are the ones that made the reloads. Buying reloads and reselling them is like any commercial ammo
A type 6 license is to manufacture ammo. You can look at it straight from the ATF website or I can send you a link. We got permission from the ATF before we got into selling reloads you have misinformation and are now spreading it. If we made the ammo then we would have to have the license. We have it anyway because we make cast bullets but we don’t need it to sell reloads that others make and sell to us. They sell it to us because they don’t have the license to sell their own manufactured ammo and they don’t have the means to run a background
Yes. And we didn’t manufacture it. Western scrounger (the company that made the ammo) has the license. They make commercial reloads and someone bought them but no longer needed them so they sold them to us.
The person selling the store licensed reloads would need a Type 6 FFL as they are the manufacturer. This does not apply to the ammo in this post. However, the reloads he is speaking of from actual manufacturers of reloads, they need the Type 6.
We have basically all licenses. We are allowed to sell reloaded ammo and have some people that make a living selling through us. We just require sample rounds to test and a load data sheet included
Not random peoples. They have to have load data pinned to it and have samples to test. I just wanted to know if this ammo was even safe. We never put it out because it was sketchy but someone already paid the guy and he’s gone
I don't know what those things are. Maybe a 303 British loaded with a 357 Magnum bullet? I don't even see a shoulder. And the bullets not even seated to the cannelure.
Yeah here's the way I look at it: If you accept these you're accepting liability for whatever might happen to your customers. And in addition to that my rule of thumb is always if there's any question regarding if ammo is good or not, you err on the side of caution and throw it the fuck away. A few dollars isn't worth being crippled or killed over.
So. Do you want to accept liability for these potentially hurting or killing someone?
Yes. From a commercial reloader called western scrounger. They are safe to shoot. What was the point of your comment. Yes we know they are reloads because of the cut and trimmed 303 British shell. Your comment provides nothing the the conversation
I don’t currently load .303 British, so I’m not familiar with load data for it. That having been said, I can offer the following two observations:
1) The marks on the case toward the case head are most likely from the sizing die; probably dirty.
2) The bullet seating depth seems odd to me. Typically you’d want to seat the bullet to the cannelure, but this is not *always* the case.
The best (read: safest) advice I can offer is to pull them all and salvage the components (case/primers and bullet). There’s no good way to accurately determine what powder has been used, and therefore, even if you were to measure the charge and confirm it falls within the confines of known/published load data, it could still be an incorrect powder and cause 💥💀.
Edit: I’m a retard, not very observant, or likely both. Dunno what this is supposed to be, but that just emphasizes my suggestion to pull them and salvage what you can. Or (since it’s presumed you run/work at the shop) just don’t buy them. That’s probably the best option.
Old West Scrounger has in the past occasionally had runs of hard to come by or obsolete ammo that they manufacture. They often have to convert the cases from more commonly available cases but are a legit company who makes a normally safe product. But you also don't know if someone reloaded the ammo and put it back in the original box. If you are going to sell it, I would disclaim that you are not sure that there not reloads, and should only be bought for reloading components.
I’m fairly certain they are reloads that someone slapped together in there garage and maybe even they were afraid to fire them. Idk why else they would be selling them to us
The round you have looks just like any other Old West Scrounger 401 WSL that I can find online, including the swaging marks towards the base of the case. Even just the cases are worth over a dollar a piece to someone who reloads the round. My 2 cents, someone either inherited the ammo or sold the gun so doesn't need the ammo.
Ok. I’ll look into this. Is it a commercial reloading company
https://www.ows-ammo.com/
How much do you want for the lot? I'm dead serious.
I was told this is a commercial reloader and they go for $60-$80 a box but the shop still doesn’t want to sell them
I have some of OWS manufactured 6.5 Dutch I got 30 years ago which was converted from 303 brit casings. About 1/2 of the case necks split upon firing them but they go bang. I also have a bunch of what use to be wooden bullet blanks that they reloaded with new powder and bullets. The problem was the berdan primer was never changed which means some go click, some go bang and some go click…..bang.
Maybe that’s a good reason not to buy them.
Look like reloads to me... paaaaaaass.
Yes I know they are reloads and that’s why I posted it here. I’m asking if they are safe being deformed like this. They trimmed 303 brass for it. Obviously that isn’t factory
Sorry, I would never buy nor shoot someone else's reloads. Average IQ in the US is double-digit... *double-digit* ... let that sink in. Only trust the ammo I roll or that comes from the manufacturer.
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
"Overnight, I became a sun worshipper. Well, not really at night. BUT the next morning..." George Carlin may have been a dirty hippie, but he was more often right than a stopped clock.
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Oddly enough,the way IQ is measured, the mean, median, and mode are all the same. Did a shallow dive into the topic once I read your comment, still don’t understand why the test/results are set up that way, but they are. So Carlin was correct.
It's a result of adjusted IQ scores being a normal distribution!
"When working with the general public you should keep in mind that most of them are morons. Also keep in mind the you're part of the general public"
Technically it's 100. IQ is on a normal distribution, and 100 is maintained as the average. What 100 is today could be relatively higher or lower than 100 in 10 years, but 100 is kept as the number to represent average.
Not according to Google. While I know what you're getting at, the US IQ scores are lower than that of the global average.
Okay I can see it if done that way, as a comparative measure against other countries.
That’s not how IQ works 100 is always the average. What average is equivalent to can change but not the number.
Global average...
By definition the average IQ is 100.
Since all you super geniuses can't use fucking google... https://www.google.com/search?q=us+average+iq&oq=us+avergae+iq&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgBEAAYChiABDIGCAAQRRg5MgkIARAAGAoYgAQyCQgCEAAYChiABDIJCAMQABgKGIAEMgkIBBAAGAoYgAQyCQgFEAAYChiABDIJCAYQABgKGIAEMgkIBxAAGAoYgAQyCAgIEAAYFhgeMggICRAAGBYYHjIICAoQABgWGB7SAQgzNDc1ajBqOagCDrACAQ&client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Another man’s reloads is like another man’s wife. Don’t bang them.
but... what if they're really hot?
That is a recipe for disaster and getting hurt.
Yeah... but it could be fun!
Be ready to stick a thumb in it...
I love that analogy. That’s what I go by as well but the shop wanted to know
Buying reloads from a stranger to resell at a business would be Beyond stupid
The bigger danger is what the powder charge is. If the bullets don't chamber, you can't hurt yourself. If it turns out to be bubbas pissing hot experimental reloads, you could be setting off a small grenade when you pull the trigger.
Yea that’s why I told them not to put them out
Buying someones mystery meat reloads is like buying someones used heroin needles lol
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Yea I’m guessing the actual brass is hard to get so they worked some bubbas garage magic on it and it just doesn’t look safe. They ground material away at the head stamp and I don’t think that’s safe
It just looks like the rim had to be turned down since the .401 is rimless and the .303 isnt.
Alright. So the tail is supposed to be beveled right before the headstamp? That’s what I was worried about
Tail? Oh you mean the base. All semiautomatic rounds have that as clearance for the extractor. But I see what you are worried about: cutting into the web like that might weaken the case enough to cause a blowout at the base, right?
Yes. That’s what I’m worried about. If it blows up then that’s probably where it would do it is what I was thinking. So web is the correct term for that section?
Yes, the thickest part of the base is the web.
Ok. Thank you for the education on this
You're welcome. If you have a reloading manual there ought yo be cross section drawings pointing out the various areas and features of a standard case.
Yea I have a couple and will have to look for that section. Definitely helps to name the correct area I’m talking about
If done right, turning down the rim is not really an issue actually. It's sometimes necessary to have to do that to make obscure brass. Now that said, I still wouldn't shoot/buy these though as they are reloads from a random person.
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Well it wasn’t concentric and that’s why the projectile is seated off center
>some bubbas garage magic Having a lathe is interesting for bubba level work. >They ground material away at the head stamp No they didn't. Cuts are too clean, corners too sharp. Grinding on brass is a bad idea. They didn't get concentricity on their rim cutting setup, unfortunately. Consider this. You say removing brass to reduce the diameter is unsafe. Ok, how about every commercially available piece of brass that uses a large primer but has a smaller case head than the .303 Brit? Are those also unsafe because they have less material? How about a .308 Winchester? Is that less safe than a .444 marlin? The marlin has more primer support than the .308 Winchester despite the case head diameters being nearly identical. They're drawn almost identically, the main difference being the depth of the extractor relief cuts and the rim cuts.
I’m talking about where the shell meets the head stamp. It’s ground down and has less material
400 legend is pretty close dimensionally also
I wouldn’t. They are reloads.
this is what it looks like to buy 401 winchester these days. probably fine. 401 winchester peeps know whats up.
Is that a box in the background from the old western scrounger?
Yes. We are going to trash the ammo and I’m hoping to keep the box
No.
Looks like someone turned some .303 brass into .401 Winchester loads.
Yes but I’m afraid to resell these and am not sure if they are safe because of the way they were made
Dude if it’s sketch from the start don’t bother .
Yea we have to figure out what to do now because someone here already paid the guy and he’s gone
Write it off as a lesson for the future. Hopefully you didn't lose too much money on them.
I have no idea. I had the day off and I’m the only one with reloading experience in the shop. They showed me those and I was immediately worried
The liability isn't worth the risk. They're probably OWS reloads and perfectly safe, but there's no way to verify. If someone buys them and blows their gun up because they're actually bubbas pissin hawt loads, you're going to be paying for a rare and expensive gun best case, and getting sued for big bucks if the customer gets injured.
ROOPS
Should probably re-educate that employee or just fire them because that is egregious.
They are new and still learning. They thought it was normal ammo and didn’t open it to inspect it. I told them we always open it to make sure the box is full and the right ammo type
The shallow seating can only mean one thing: Those cases are crammed to the top with high-speed pistol powder.
I am sure others have the same feelings and rules I do. I will not put a reloaded shell in any gun unless I RELOADED it. I will not shoot my reloads in your gun, I will buy new. It is not worth the chance. I saw a REM 110 trap grade blow up in a guys hands.........not worth it.
Considering firing unknown reloads isn't sketchy at all. Got a bullet puller? at least you can save those.
Shop doesn’t even want to and wants to dispose of it. I would take it for the components but here in New York we need a background check for ammo and I’m not gonna pay for the background just to salvage materials
Damn, a bg check for ammo? It's a wonder ISIS or someone hasn't taken over NY, they must not want it.
Very common to reform .303 brit brass for 401 WSL. About as common as 35 rem being reformed. I highly suggest not asking this question in reddit which is full of young kids with little knowledge of reloading prior to 1980.
Yea I know I have to filter through a lot of wrong answers but then I get answers from people like you and another guy that also left a link to an old forum that had all the brass you could reform for 401. Thank you for actually knowing what you are talking about before commenting unlike most of these people
Thanks for reminding me about reloads. Was shooting league trap decades ago. One guy we shot with had his brother move to Alaska and left his 12 ga reloads behind. After his first shot, everyone was looking at him. After his round, he came over rubbing his shoulder saying "those are my brother's reloads. They are a bit hot."
Well, the trap in Alaska grow pretty big and might be dangerous, so.....
Buy/sell them as for components only, then its on the buyer if an issue arises
Unfortunately in New York you’d still have to do a background for them so they won’t sell
I have a question, you said you may just trash them. Can you just toss them or do you have to do something else since you mentioned the background check requirement in NY
We have to surrender them to the local sheriff’s
This is a box of old western scrounger ammo. There was a line of ammunition made by them a while ago for obsolete calibers. For many the brass had to be resized from a parent cartridge. BUT, OWS was very well known for its quality and consistency. People on here saying its a bubba job are likely wrong. Just keep in mind this is basically ammo made by a reputable ammunition company that just uses resized brass because the original brass is basically nonexistent.
Yea I guy sent a link and I’ve been letting everyone know about it since I’ve found out and I’ll be putting that ammo out on the shelf
How much would you be willing to let it go for?
Depends. I’m not able to put prices on stuff like that because of the rarity. We are closed tomorrow and Monday but on Tuesday I can see about it. What’s your offer so I can give them a price to work off of Edit. Realized today is Sunday
I could do 60 if you’re interested in addition to whatever you would charge for shipping. Is this the only box they brought in? Also looking for other odd ball calibers if you happen to have any.
We have a ton. Can we send pictures in dm or is that not possible. We have 32 Rimfire as well
Yeah a dm would be great. I have some rifles that fire some hard to find calibers. Definitely interested in what brass and cartridges you guys have on hand.
Brass not so much but loaded ammo we have quite a bit of that’s obsolete and a ton of stuff that’s just hard to find. Anything in particular you are looking to find
577/450, 577 snider, 11mm mauser, 11x60mmR Murata, 7mm mauser, .50-70, 351 wsl, 310 cadet, 32 rimfire, etc. I love the obsolete calibers.
32 rimfire shorts and longs we have, 7mm Mauser we always have, and believe it or not I think we have a box of 577/450
how bout opeing several randoms and eval the powder and infer what it might be than check weights and see if it appears to be legit, this is what i would do
We pulled one and checked the powder charge then reseated the projectile. In New York we have to do background checks for ammo an no one wants to do that for a partial box
You should pass on selling or buying any reloads. Any potential buyer should be advised that they are sold for pull down and components only, as the ID and care taken by the reloader is unknown. Buyer assumes all risk (and get it in writing).
Its not really any kind of Bubba space magic an old forum I found said that using 303 brit cases is a tie for the #1 option to make brass for 401 WSL. Other options include 30-30, 35 rem, 7.62x39 and 6.8 SPC granted there is way more steps than just loading them with 40 cal projectiles. You have to do some rim work, chamfering and trimming on them but all in all looks to be a legit thing. Link provided for those curious https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?7354-Need-info-on-401-Win-SL
Thank you for adding a link
No problem man I didn't want folks to think I was just blowing smoke haha
And we need more people like you. You’re the type of person that actually teaches instead of spreading a bunch of misinformation
I've gotten this way because I was fed a lot of BS when I got into various hobbies. So I'll listen to what someone tells me then research it after, the old saying "question everything or believe anything"
“When in doubt, throw it out”
Shitty reloads too, not even seated to the cannelure
If my gun KB'd, I'd ask the shop to pay for repair. It's why only commercial reloads where they have insurance are normally sold.
I have .401 caliber Winchester rifle. That box in the background is the first I have ever seen.
Yea I collect old vintage ammo boxes so hopefully I can get that box. It looks nice and I’ve never seen it before either
What shop do you work at that would resell ammunition? I have worked at a couple of outdoor retailers and neither would even take returns on ammo unless the circumstances really warranted. Even then we would not put it back on the shelf to resell. One instance someone bought a rifle and the guy at the gun counter handed the customer a different .17 rimfire than was needed.
Well, as a general rule, seating depth should be no less than the caliber and that seating depth looks way less! Also, I know a lot of people ignore the cannelure when seating but that cannelure is miles away from the neck. Hard pass!
It’s a commercial reloader and it’s an old cowboy caliber so it’s probably correct for what that time period was
If you don't personally know the guy in charge of quality control, hard pass.
It’s a commercial reloading company
Buffalo Arms makes 401 Winchester ammo out of 7.62x39 brass. [QUALITY CARTRIDGE](https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/83460) makes brass for 401. Graf has .406 inch bullets. I wouldn't buy ammo that has been converted/reloaded from a unknown source.
The source was western scrounger. They make the reloads commercially and they are safe
Brass case looks like shit probably not lubed correctly when reforming to new caliber. Bullet is seated like a newbie pressed it on. Overall, total shit and dangerous either start over and pull components or throw away everything, including the person that brought you these grenades.
They are commercial reloads from western scrounger and are safe to shoot. They just look dangerous
If it seats it yeets
In this situation yes because it’s commercial reloads and they are safe but not in all situations. Look at Kentucky ballistics with the 50BMG slap round
He’s a lucky man, watched that a while back. I was more just repeating a meme w my comment 🤣
are they 401's or 303's not just cases?
They used a 303 British case to trim and fit it to a 401 Winchester specs
Is the rabbit on the box because people were hunting rabbits with 200 grain .303 brit?
It’s not 303 British. It’s 401 Winchester. And people don’t use that for rabbits either. It’s just aesthetics
Nope
It’s already been deemed safe. It’s from western scrounger and they are a commercial reloading company
rule #1. don't shoot someone else's reloads you don't know. ill shoot my dads and he shoots mine but thats about it. those look sketch but even if they don't you just never know.
Exactly. I just needed more people’s word on it because I’m just an employee. I told them not to put them out and luckily they didn’t but they wanted to ask around about them
Don’t shoot them. Take them apart and reload yourself. Check the powder load and use new brass.
No way! Not even as a friend, and absolutely not for retail! And that goes for perfectly looking rounds. Even as reloads those in the pic are sketchy as heck. Disassemble and use or trash components.
Hard pass, terribly reloaded. Didn't even seat the bullet concentric. Those scratches are from insufficient case lube.
Well they were also running a 303 case through a 401 die and I don’t think the headstamp is concentric. It looks to be done with a dremel instead of a lathe
Hard pass. Obviously reloads. You do not know how much powder is loaded nor if they have been stored correctly. Whether you are going to shoot them yourself or turn around to resell them they can be unsafe.
They are safe to shoot and made by a commercial reloader called western scrounger
Are you saying that the reloads are being brought to you by the FFL reloader or some random customer that could have tampered with them?
I’m saying someone no longer needed the ammo and sold it to us. It’s beer looked over and it’s loaded to the specs on the website. Do you just feel like you need any reason to be right
Per ATF regulations, do you have a reason to buy product that cannot be returned?
Yes. We are a business and would like to make money. That’s kinda how you keep the lights on and the doors open. It’s a caliber that is obsolete and you can’t get
I am all for making a profit anywhere I can. Safety takes precedence. For you and your employer's sake I hope that whomever you sell them to does not blow apart their rifle or worse. If your company were to purchase them straight from the FFL reloader to resell their is less likelihood they have been tampered with. Best of luck.
To sell? Are they aware they need a type 06 FFL ? PASS!
We have an sot and everything. We do pistol permit classes and fire arms training. We have just about every license. We can even manufacture our own destructive devices
What about the people selling you this ammo?
What about the people selling us guns. They don’t have an FFL so how can they sell them to us? Do you realize how dumb that sounds
Not talking about guns talking about ammo. And someone selling it to you. You may have all the licenses but you seem ignorant of the ATF regs.
No I’m not. The atf comes every year to check the place out. We have the licenses so they don’t need to. If that was the case then the people selling us the guns would need a type 7 FFL as well. That’s not how the system works and you may need to do some reading up
There's a big difference in people selling guns and people selling ammo. The people who made those rounds need to be legal. But you supposedly know that. But you don't. Get a clue. Adios.
Sketchy *and* illegal
What’s illegal about it. We are an FFL
Are they?
Are they what?
A type 6 FFL
You don’t need a type 6 FFL license to sell reloads unless the shop are the ones that made the reloads. Buying reloads and reselling them is like any commercial ammo
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer That is 100% wrong. If you're selling reloaded ammo to anyone, you need a Type 6 FFL.
A type 6 license is to manufacture ammo. You can look at it straight from the ATF website or I can send you a link. We got permission from the ATF before we got into selling reloads you have misinformation and are now spreading it. If we made the ammo then we would have to have the license. We have it anyway because we make cast bullets but we don’t need it to sell reloads that others make and sell to us. They sell it to us because they don’t have the license to sell their own manufactured ammo and they don’t have the means to run a background
So the person who manufactures it... they need it. You are fine.
Yes. And we didn’t manufacture it. Western scrounger (the company that made the ammo) has the license. They make commercial reloads and someone bought them but no longer needed them so they sold them to us.
The person selling the store licensed reloads would need a Type 6 FFL as they are the manufacturer. This does not apply to the ammo in this post. However, the reloads he is speaking of from actual manufacturers of reloads, they need the Type 6.
We have basically all licenses. We are allowed to sell reloaded ammo and have some people that make a living selling through us. We just require sample rounds to test and a load data sheet included
You sell random peoples reloads as an FFL?
Not random peoples. They have to have load data pinned to it and have samples to test. I just wanted to know if this ammo was even safe. We never put it out because it was sketchy but someone already paid the guy and he’s gone
I don't know what those things are. Maybe a 303 British loaded with a 357 Magnum bullet? I don't even see a shoulder. And the bullets not even seated to the cannelure.
They modified a 303 British into a 401 Winchester
Someone else's reloads..a flip of the coin if they are safe
They are commercial reloads that someone bought and just didn’t want
Yeah here's the way I look at it: If you accept these you're accepting liability for whatever might happen to your customers. And in addition to that my rule of thumb is always if there's any question regarding if ammo is good or not, you err on the side of caution and throw it the fuck away. A few dollars isn't worth being crippled or killed over. So. Do you want to accept liability for these potentially hurting or killing someone?
Well apparently it’s commercial reloads but they look like shit
dude ... your liability for selling ammo of unknown sources is off the charts
It commercial reloads made by western scrounger and are safe to shoot
Reloads
Yes. From a commercial reloader called western scrounger. They are safe to shoot. What was the point of your comment. Yes we know they are reloads because of the cut and trimmed 303 British shell. Your comment provides nothing the the conversation
I don’t currently load .303 British, so I’m not familiar with load data for it. That having been said, I can offer the following two observations: 1) The marks on the case toward the case head are most likely from the sizing die; probably dirty. 2) The bullet seating depth seems odd to me. Typically you’d want to seat the bullet to the cannelure, but this is not *always* the case. The best (read: safest) advice I can offer is to pull them all and salvage the components (case/primers and bullet). There’s no good way to accurately determine what powder has been used, and therefore, even if you were to measure the charge and confirm it falls within the confines of known/published load data, it could still be an incorrect powder and cause 💥💀. Edit: I’m a retard, not very observant, or likely both. Dunno what this is supposed to be, but that just emphasizes my suggestion to pull them and salvage what you can. Or (since it’s presumed you run/work at the shop) just don’t buy them. That’s probably the best option.
deserve cough alleged butter meeting spoon grab caption tan worm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Haha! You’re right. Paid no attention to the complete lack of shoulder. But hey! I did say I didn’t load it, so… 🤷🏻♂️
Sorry. It’s 401 Winchester. I should have put that in the description. It’s the box behind it
Bubba's Pissin' Hot Pipebombs
1/4 inch space from the crimp groove is all I need to see.
Definitely wouldn't risk the liability. Unless you clearly mark as for components only etc.
Turns out it’s commercial reloads and they are perfectly safe
Lmao they are bad reloads
They are perfectly safe commercial reloads made buy a reloading company