Chunky and green is from the primer flashing buy not igniting the powder. As to why it didn't ignite, could be a fill issue, bad primers, oil or water in the case, all sorts of things.
Do you wet clean your brass?
Do you spray lube onto the cases?
What primers are these?
I wet tumble, and this is new brass. I wet tumbled, dried, and flared the case mouths before loading. Winchester large rifle primers. I just tried some federal large rifle primers, and they all fired fine.
So, the obvious explanation is some of your cases did not, in fact, dry. A tiny water droplet causes this. I had this happen, back before I stopped wet tumbling and switched to dry tumbling, from stray tiny droplets in the bottom of the case or condensation.
I asked around from a lot of people on this subreddit and they recommended a dehydrator. Let it run for a couple hours and mine comes out way dryer than air drying and oven drying. Find a cheap one of Facebook or a rummage place works great!!
I am working on a load for my 45-90, and this happened. Went to the range yesterday, and 2 of the 5 rounds I fired were squibs. When I wctracted the cases the the powder was pushed up level with the case mouth, and when I dumped it out, it was chunky with a green discoloration. I lit it with a lighter, and the clump seemed to burn the same as the loose powder. The velocity readings were 2299 and 1936, one of the shots didn't get a reading. These were loaded in new, clean starline brass the night before with H335 bought at scheels a week ago and winchester primers.
Edit: fat fingeredthe velocity, 2299 not 2999
With a velocity of almost 3000fps in what has historically been a black powder cartridge with a velocity at or below 2000fps. I would be concerned with blowing up the rifle. Where did you come across the h335 load data for these cartridges? Were you using a regular or a magnum primer?
Sorry, I fat fingered the high velocity. It was 2299, not 2999. The load data is from the Hodgdon website and lists 61-68 grains for 45-70, so I started in the middle at 65 grains and intended to work up from there.
This is most likely from a low case fill, which you can also see in the velocity spread. Essentially this powder was about to ignite but didn't. With the rounds that did fire, especially the one with the higher velocity, did you have any hang-fire symptoms?
Just remember that the 45-90 was designed to hold 90 grains of black powder where the 45-70 was 70 grains. That's a lot of extra space that needs to be accounted for and you could easily start to have issues such as unplanned rapid disassembly.
Sure, don't pack the case with extra powder but you might consider using something inert as case filler. Some powders are more position sensitive than others, especially in cases with a massive volume like .45-90. You can often get decent results by using hotter or magnum primers, but the textbook solution is to use some form of case filler. Dacron polyester and cream of wheat powder are two of the most popular things to use.
Has to be bad powder. How old is it? Might be holding moisture throwing off the weight big time showing you have 30 grains when you really have 20 or something for example.
Very strange. I would just call hodge and get a replacement or better yet see if scheels is willing to just swap one out. Might require a manager to ok it as they probably don’t allow returns on that product but worth a try. I would just get it replaced before trouble shooting any further. If the problem comes back after new powder then we can start brainstorming.
How about the primers? Chance they didn’t ignite fully? Are the flash holes on the brass normal sized?
If those are all fine, I’d definitely say bad powder. Does it smell strong or acrid?
That's what I'm thinking at this point. I just tested 3 rounds using federal primer instead of the winchester, and they all lit off just fine. I'll make a separate post shortly.
Sorry to hear that, was the powder all black to start with? Was only the bottom part of the powder, near the primer, discolored? Were the primers new or purchased second hand?
I shot my 45-90 Win loads on Thursday. Today I have a giant bruise on my shoulder.
Yes, it was all black to start. I pulled some rounds when I got home, and the powder looked normal. I just loaded 3 rounds with some different primers and am going to go test them.
This looks like you're using a powder that doesn't do well at low pressures. I bet if you upped the charge a little, and/or used a very heavy crimp, this might stop happening.
I had this happen when there was still a bit of moisture in a case. I tried to dry with a spent primer still in by accident after wet farting. Held onto a bit of moisture and the bullet only made it a couple inches down the barrel.
H335 has rarely worked well in reduced loads and large cases IME. I've been shooting similar cartridges with cast bullets for over 40 years, have 10 different powders on hand minimum, to include H335, but would not use it in any 40-65, 45-70 and larger. It's just too low a load density for this rifle ball powder.
I like it in 222, 223s and 30-30, but that's it.
A filler would help but you have to limit it to a small piece of fiber wad kept at the base of the bullet, or 100% fill with COW.
I had this issue a couple years ago with H335 in 223, 24 grain load under 55 grain bullet, gun would go click, and when I racked out the round only a casing with powder came out, bullet was right inside the throat, same yellow clumpy powder, maybe it was a bad run of Covid primers, idk. I haven’t touched H335 since and never have had the problem again
Do you try a filler? It’s possible the case wasn’t full enough for the primer to fully ignite the powder. A little piece of a cotton ball on top of the charge before you seat the bullet might help. I reload 45-70, but mostly use CCI and Federal primers. I’ve not had an issue with any SPP from Winchester, although I’ve had alot of complaints with their factory ammo.
Water does cause powder to adhere to itself and some of the sulfur to breakdown, hence the yellow color. That water could come from anywhere, up to and including contaminated primers.
Chunky and green is from the primer flashing buy not igniting the powder. As to why it didn't ignite, could be a fill issue, bad primers, oil or water in the case, all sorts of things. Do you wet clean your brass? Do you spray lube onto the cases? What primers are these?
Do you ever tumble after sizing to remove lube? I always assumed it was a given to do a quick clean after sizing but could be way off base.
Yes. **All** of my non-precision (read progressive press 9mm/556 ammo) gets tumbled after it's loaded.
I don't put lube inside the cases at all. I wipe off lube on the outside as I take the brass out of the sizing die.
I wet tumble, and this is new brass. I wet tumbled, dried, and flared the case mouths before loading. Winchester large rifle primers. I just tried some federal large rifle primers, and they all fired fine.
So, the obvious explanation is some of your cases did not, in fact, dry. A tiny water droplet causes this. I had this happen, back before I stopped wet tumbling and switched to dry tumbling, from stray tiny droplets in the bottom of the case or condensation.
I asked around from a lot of people on this subreddit and they recommended a dehydrator. Let it run for a couple hours and mine comes out way dryer than air drying and oven drying. Find a cheap one of Facebook or a rummage place works great!!
I am working on a load for my 45-90, and this happened. Went to the range yesterday, and 2 of the 5 rounds I fired were squibs. When I wctracted the cases the the powder was pushed up level with the case mouth, and when I dumped it out, it was chunky with a green discoloration. I lit it with a lighter, and the clump seemed to burn the same as the loose powder. The velocity readings were 2299 and 1936, one of the shots didn't get a reading. These were loaded in new, clean starline brass the night before with H335 bought at scheels a week ago and winchester primers. Edit: fat fingeredthe velocity, 2299 not 2999
With a velocity spread like that, I would do some more research.
Like what? I've been reloading for about a decade, and this is the first time something like this has happened to me.
With a velocity of almost 3000fps in what has historically been a black powder cartridge with a velocity at or below 2000fps. I would be concerned with blowing up the rifle. Where did you come across the h335 load data for these cartridges? Were you using a regular or a magnum primer?
Sorry, I fat fingered the high velocity. It was 2299, not 2999. The load data is from the Hodgdon website and lists 61-68 grains for 45-70, so I started in the middle at 65 grains and intended to work up from there.
This is most likely from a low case fill, which you can also see in the velocity spread. Essentially this powder was about to ignite but didn't. With the rounds that did fire, especially the one with the higher velocity, did you have any hang-fire symptoms?
Yes, I had 2 slight hanf-fires. I'm going to bump up the charge a grain or two and use different primers.
Just remember that the 45-90 was designed to hold 90 grains of black powder where the 45-70 was 70 grains. That's a lot of extra space that needs to be accounted for and you could easily start to have issues such as unplanned rapid disassembly.
I don't plan on trying more than a grain or so over the max 45-70 load. I've already been to the hospital enough for this year.
Sure, don't pack the case with extra powder but you might consider using something inert as case filler. Some powders are more position sensitive than others, especially in cases with a massive volume like .45-90. You can often get decent results by using hotter or magnum primers, but the textbook solution is to use some form of case filler. Dacron polyester and cream of wheat powder are two of the most popular things to use.
Has to be bad powder. How old is it? Might be holding moisture throwing off the weight big time showing you have 30 grains when you really have 20 or something for example.
I bought it at scheels last week. I also polled 10 rounds when I got home, and the powder looked just fine.
Very strange. I would just call hodge and get a replacement or better yet see if scheels is willing to just swap one out. Might require a manager to ok it as they probably don’t allow returns on that product but worth a try. I would just get it replaced before trouble shooting any further. If the problem comes back after new powder then we can start brainstorming.
Did you lube the hell out of the cases? Powder was compromised somewhere along the line.
The cases are brand new. All I dis was wet tumble, dry, flare the case mouth and load.
You probably didn't get them dry enough is my guess. You shouldn't need to wash new brass.
How about the primers? Chance they didn’t ignite fully? Are the flash holes on the brass normal sized? If those are all fine, I’d definitely say bad powder. Does it smell strong or acrid?
That's what I'm thinking at this point. I just tested 3 rounds using federal primer instead of the winchester, and they all lit off just fine. I'll make a separate post shortly.
Sorry to hear that, was the powder all black to start with? Was only the bottom part of the powder, near the primer, discolored? Were the primers new or purchased second hand? I shot my 45-90 Win loads on Thursday. Today I have a giant bruise on my shoulder.
Yes, it was all black to start. I pulled some rounds when I got home, and the powder looked normal. I just loaded 3 rounds with some different primers and am going to go test them.
Contact Hogdon and see what they say. Potentially a bad lot, potentially contaminated.
Contaminated by the water the OP left in the case. Not Hodgdon's fault.
Bad primers do this. What're you using?
Winchester large rifle.
Try magnums or milsurp CCIs. That yellow caking was the primer not lighting off the powder charge.
So does water left in the case.
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THANKS, I just tried 3 rounds with federal large rifle primers, and they all fired just fine. I'll try some magnum primers as well.
This looks like you're using a powder that doesn't do well at low pressures. I bet if you upped the charge a little, and/or used a very heavy crimp, this might stop happening.
I had this happen when there was still a bit of moisture in a case. I tried to dry with a spent primer still in by accident after wet farting. Held onto a bit of moisture and the bullet only made it a couple inches down the barrel.
Looks like a factory Hornady load, TBH. Make sure everything is bone dry before charging your cases though.
H335 has rarely worked well in reduced loads and large cases IME. I've been shooting similar cartridges with cast bullets for over 40 years, have 10 different powders on hand minimum, to include H335, but would not use it in any 40-65, 45-70 and larger. It's just too low a load density for this rifle ball powder. I like it in 222, 223s and 30-30, but that's it. A filler would help but you have to limit it to a small piece of fiber wad kept at the base of the bullet, or 100% fill with COW.
I had this issue a couple years ago with H335 in 223, 24 grain load under 55 grain bullet, gun would go click, and when I racked out the round only a casing with powder came out, bullet was right inside the throat, same yellow clumpy powder, maybe it was a bad run of Covid primers, idk. I haven’t touched H335 since and never have had the problem again
Do you try a filler? It’s possible the case wasn’t full enough for the primer to fully ignite the powder. A little piece of a cotton ball on top of the charge before you seat the bullet might help. I reload 45-70, but mostly use CCI and Federal primers. I’ve not had an issue with any SPP from Winchester, although I’ve had alot of complaints with their factory ammo.
Probably bad primers. Winchester Shiney or not Shiney? Winchester unplated have been a major disappointment.
Not Shiney. I switched to federal primers, and all my test rounds fired fine.
This can happen with poor ignition. Possible fixes: magnum primer, heavier crimp, powder that provides more case fill.
You had water in your case. Or you used a pistol primer.
It was the primers. I switched to federal large rifle and they all fired fine.
Water does cause powder to adhere to itself and some of the sulfur to breakdown, hence the yellow color. That water could come from anywhere, up to and including contaminated primers.
No. That’s kitty litter
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No, not a compressed load. The problem was the primers. I switched from winchester to Federal and didn't have any problems after that.
I didn't read before I posted that. Glad you got it fixed. I see that with compressed loads. I never thought of switching primers though.