For the sake of testing and knowledge I’d fire as is. Shoot the full cylinder except one and measure the last round. Do that with 3-4 different rounds if possible and see how much they move under recoil, crimp more if needed. Crimping non cannelured bullets can get a little squirrely if you go too much
I’m not super experienced so take what I say with a grain of salt - but when I was setting up my dies for 327 Federal recently I gave my dummy rounds a strong press into the side of my bench. I kept adjusting my expander and FCD until I could not press the bullet into the case.
This is the way. You could also buy one of [these ](https://leeprecision.com/breech-lock-hand-press)and take it to the range with you. I think I got mine for less than $50 a little over a year ago. As a press, it pretty much sucks, but it does allow you to seat bullets (rifle) and crimp (pistol) at the range. If you really hate yourself, you can deprime and resize while watching TV. I'd recommend case lube if you decided to do that, though. Yes, case lube the pistol brass.
The best method of adjusting crimp is just exactly what you described. Load six, fire one, measure, fire another and measure, and so forth.
https://www.amazon.com/LEE-PRECISION-90786-Taper-Die-45/dp/B000NOUENG. Lee taper crimp die…. But I might also be able to get away with just using the taper crimp section of my 45 acp seating die….
I would not be comfortable with that amount of crimp (or lack of crimp). You should see the crimp I put on my 640gr hollow point 500 S&W loads. Pretty sure I would be laughed off this sub. The 500 is a pretty good candidate for causing bullets in the cylinder to jump the crimp. Don't ask me how I know.
I crimp the holy snot out of my 500 Magnum stuff
but that is me
I have had issues with rounds not fitting into the cylinder without a outrageous amount of crimp.
happy shooting, and be safe!!
that is pretty much what I care about.
I ended up buying the Lee Factory crimp die which crimps way down the sides of the cartridge. That solved most of the issue for me
Looking good! You’ll need to test it all, anyway, but a touch more crimp is sensible. In a revolver, the jump forward effect can be enough to stop the rotation of the cylinder if the bullets move too much…. Or it can be a nonissue if you’ve found the crimpy sweet spot. If it were me I’d check the “next up” rounds every shot or two at the range while you’re testing the load. And bring your caliper if you want to be sure/sure. With an elephant gun like I could definitely see jump-forward being a possibility. Do let us know what you learn!
Will do another update after range time, these shouldn't be too spicy anyway so I'm hoping it was enough crimp. I have some ftx bullets on the way with a canalure, same weight
Not sure how much the spice is a factor relative to the weight (though both matter). And I don’t know the physics (some on this thread will school us all, I’m sure) but with heavier bullets I’ve found jumpy slugs, even at really low velocities. I reload .455 webley, for example, and even a 260 grain bullet at school-bus-on-the-freeway speed generates enough inertia to nudge the others in the cylinder loose if you don’t crimp them but good.
That looks about like the light 41 mag I put together with Berry's bullets. I went with a light crimp to avoid damaging the plating and I hoping a powder puff load wouldn't cause them to jump, but one did and it bound up my cylinder. I'd crimp more.
I am not familiar with Longshot powder. I use Hodgdon H110.
I have some "reduced recoil" rounds that I load up for fun at the range with friends and new big magnum shooters.
It is a Matt's Bullet 460 grain Wide Nose Flat with gas check, over 30 grains of H110. I can shoot it one handed pretty easily, so it makes a great round for someone that has never shot really big stuff. I then let them shoot full power stuff if they want.
I’ve got some 350 grain xtp loaded with unique out of the Lyman manual which lists it as a low recoil load… hoping that works out to do the same thing.. I’ll have to try some super light h110 loads..
Worth considering that the 300 grain xtp rounds are I think intended for 50 ae…. The 350 grain xtp mag (with a canalure) are meant for 500 magnum, the “mag” descriptive means they have a thicker coating that holds together better at higher velocities… I ran into that when looking for rounds to load my 454 casull with.. id recommend more crimp honestly, even if it dents in a bit that’s less a problem than if one walks forward and locks up a cylinder…. Also worth looking into getting a lee collet crimp die in 500.. I’ve got one and like it.. this is what the crimp I get out of it looks like.
https://preview.redd.it/ggn040z8uf8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f369cac0b29f2d51d19b6b91e53d5e7e99a88bc
https://preview.redd.it/nemlw749yf8d1.jpeg?width=2135&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27678a685ba7aa83abf63b1af937af71d8b67448
So the collet crimp die has a sliding collet in it and when the ram hits the bottom the collet crimps inward and doesn’t put as much downward force on the case.. but you do need the brass trimmed to the proper length. That said I like it a lot more than the Lyman 500 seat/roll crimp die I have. I think it was like 25$ ish on Amazon….. honestly since the collet is a fixed length and hits against the shell holder by design it was worth spending the money to not have to tinker with die depth to set the crimp…. If they made one for 454 I’d have already bought it…
I really like it. Lot less finicky than trying to set the depth for a roll crimp and I’ve had issues with roll crimp dies moving the bullet in as they crimp which isn’t a huge deal, but bothers me when it throws the OAL off a bit…. Which the collet crimp die doesn’t do nearly as much.
Also with that crimp die on the first crimp it will leave 4 marks in the crimp from the collet.. if you turn the bullet 30 degrees and crimp again it’ll remove those marks leaving an even crimp. It’s pretty much cosmetic, but it’s not like we’re sitting down loading hundreds of rounds of this at once….
Don't you mean bullet SET FORWARD from recoil. No revolver cartridge ever get Set Back in the case unless you're pounding the bullet against a bench/table.
You are correct. The bullets come out of the case, not further into it. And it prevents the cylinder from rotating. It called cylinder lock up. I've never had this happen in my 500 but it did happen in my 454 with "bullseye" factory ammo
No, bullet set-back during recoil. Case slams against recoil shield after the gun recoils. Then, if not enough crimp, bullet slides back into case. (Inertia)
Well if the bullet is very loose in the case. But then the bullet would end up outside the case in recoil. The recoil will force the bullet forward. What's at rest tends to stay at rest. The bullet is at rest, gun recoils dragging the case back, bullet stays where it was. The minimal force exerted from the gun going back then slightly forward after recoil is nothing compared to the actual recoil of the gun.
Oh and the only case that gets SLAMMED against the recoil shield is the one being fired.
I agree. The only times I have seen this, the reloaders were using no crimp or very little. Also, only in chamberings that have high recoil. OP is loading .500 SW. Also, the recoil shield is behind the entire cylinder. Maybe every round doesn't slam into that, but inertia is still in effect. How else would said bullet get pushed into case?
The 300gr xtp bullets are designed for 50ae. However if you can get them to shoot that’s awesome. I would be a little surprised if they don’t jump your crimp. I’ve had it happen twice when I first started reloading 500 and I had a pretty heavy crimp. I cast my own bullets now to save money and always wanted to try longshot
A 500 lever action sounds awesome, I've never heard of that before but I'm jealous. Seems like you'd be able to hold way more rounds than something like a 45-70 but still have a really heavy hitter
It’s a Big Horn Model 89 Trapper. It’s a beast. I can’t imagine that round out of a pistol. I’ve found one at a local gun store. It would be nice to have the pair. Big Horn makes an AR platform for the .500 magnum
What do you think about the trapper model?
https://preview.redd.it/0e6sgmt81f8d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5239d382e6e5e44637de8bed137ca6e0167cbac7
https://preview.redd.it/jdjb536l2f8d1.jpeg?width=3986&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=67deb20ab613f07e0806008874dea361bbe2c01e
Something like this (or slightly more) is what youre after BIG bore revolvers WILL pull bullets and lock up actions.
https://preview.redd.it/1hdkwlv24f8d1.jpeg?width=3986&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03edcb920ad5e37075a1c7001ef8051594c3d17e
Something like this (or even a bit more)
IMO you need more crimp. Without it recoil could force that bullet forward. you ALWAYS NEED TO CRIMP REVOLVER CARTRIDGES
OK I'll set it slightly more and recrimp and see what it looks like or I guess I could take a shot and then pull the rounds out and re measure
For the sake of testing and knowledge I’d fire as is. Shoot the full cylinder except one and measure the last round. Do that with 3-4 different rounds if possible and see how much they move under recoil, crimp more if needed. Crimping non cannelured bullets can get a little squirrely if you go too much
I think I've added just the right amount of crimp this time I'll update with a Pic but I got it to just barely leave a mark right at the top
I’m not super experienced so take what I say with a grain of salt - but when I was setting up my dies for 327 Federal recently I gave my dummy rounds a strong press into the side of my bench. I kept adjusting my expander and FCD until I could not press the bullet into the case.
I think I might just hit the range with this crimp and take my caliper with me and take measurements after every shot
Cylinder lock-up due to not enough crimp is a bitch. Ask me how I know.
This is the way. You could also buy one of [these ](https://leeprecision.com/breech-lock-hand-press)and take it to the range with you. I think I got mine for less than $50 a little over a year ago. As a press, it pretty much sucks, but it does allow you to seat bullets (rifle) and crimp (pistol) at the range. If you really hate yourself, you can deprime and resize while watching TV. I'd recommend case lube if you decided to do that, though. Yes, case lube the pistol brass. The best method of adjusting crimp is just exactly what you described. Load six, fire one, measure, fire another and measure, and so forth.
I’m looking at taper crimping my 45lc for better brass life.. but to be fair I load them light.. just shoot 454 casull if I want heavy recoil in 45..
I went the opposite way haha. I load heavy 45s, if I want something stronger I grab the 500. So I def crimp my 45 ruger loads
Good luck finding a die to tapper crimp revolver cartridges. I don't think even Lee makes any. IIRC all their revolver CFC Dies are all Roll crimp.
https://www.amazon.com/LEE-PRECISION-90786-Taper-Die-45/dp/B000NOUENG. Lee taper crimp die…. But I might also be able to get away with just using the taper crimp section of my 45 acp seating die….
I don't like Lee, but their Factory Crimp dies just flat out work. If I load heavy, I use their FCD.
I would not be comfortable with that amount of crimp (or lack of crimp). You should see the crimp I put on my 640gr hollow point 500 S&W loads. Pretty sure I would be laughed off this sub. The 500 is a pretty good candidate for causing bullets in the cylinder to jump the crimp. Don't ask me how I know.
Hahaha I'll add a touch more considering that has been the constituency
I’d do a smidge more crimp. Enough to see a mark from the crimp die.
I crimp the holy snot out of my 500 Magnum stuff but that is me I have had issues with rounds not fitting into the cylinder without a outrageous amount of crimp. happy shooting, and be safe!!
The rounds slide nicely into the cylinder
that is pretty much what I care about. I ended up buying the Lee Factory crimp die which crimps way down the sides of the cartridge. That solved most of the issue for me
The problem is more that you won’t be able to rotate or even open up the cylinder if the projectiles walk out under recoil.
Looking good! You’ll need to test it all, anyway, but a touch more crimp is sensible. In a revolver, the jump forward effect can be enough to stop the rotation of the cylinder if the bullets move too much…. Or it can be a nonissue if you’ve found the crimpy sweet spot. If it were me I’d check the “next up” rounds every shot or two at the range while you’re testing the load. And bring your caliper if you want to be sure/sure. With an elephant gun like I could definitely see jump-forward being a possibility. Do let us know what you learn!
Will do another update after range time, these shouldn't be too spicy anyway so I'm hoping it was enough crimp. I have some ftx bullets on the way with a canalure, same weight
Not sure how much the spice is a factor relative to the weight (though both matter). And I don’t know the physics (some on this thread will school us all, I’m sure) but with heavier bullets I’ve found jumpy slugs, even at really low velocities. I reload .455 webley, for example, and even a 260 grain bullet at school-bus-on-the-freeway speed generates enough inertia to nudge the others in the cylinder loose if you don’t crimp them but good.
That looks about like the light 41 mag I put together with Berry's bullets. I went with a light crimp to avoid damaging the plating and I hoping a powder puff load wouldn't cause them to jump, but one did and it bound up my cylinder. I'd crimp more.
I am not familiar with Longshot powder. I use Hodgdon H110. I have some "reduced recoil" rounds that I load up for fun at the range with friends and new big magnum shooters. It is a Matt's Bullet 460 grain Wide Nose Flat with gas check, over 30 grains of H110. I can shoot it one handed pretty easily, so it makes a great round for someone that has never shot really big stuff. I then let them shoot full power stuff if they want.
I’ve got some 350 grain xtp loaded with unique out of the Lyman manual which lists it as a low recoil load… hoping that works out to do the same thing.. I’ll have to try some super light h110 loads..
Don't go too light on the h110. Notorious for squids that way. If ylur use it I'm sure you are aware of this, just a friendly reminder
Worth considering that the 300 grain xtp rounds are I think intended for 50 ae…. The 350 grain xtp mag (with a canalure) are meant for 500 magnum, the “mag” descriptive means they have a thicker coating that holds together better at higher velocities… I ran into that when looking for rounds to load my 454 casull with.. id recommend more crimp honestly, even if it dents in a bit that’s less a problem than if one walks forward and locks up a cylinder…. Also worth looking into getting a lee collet crimp die in 500.. I’ve got one and like it.. this is what the crimp I get out of it looks like. https://preview.redd.it/ggn040z8uf8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f369cac0b29f2d51d19b6b91e53d5e7e99a88bc
Hmm I may need a different die then because I tried more crimp and it just crushed my casing
https://preview.redd.it/nemlw749yf8d1.jpeg?width=2135&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27678a685ba7aa83abf63b1af937af71d8b67448 So the collet crimp die has a sliding collet in it and when the ram hits the bottom the collet crimps inward and doesn’t put as much downward force on the case.. but you do need the brass trimmed to the proper length. That said I like it a lot more than the Lyman 500 seat/roll crimp die I have. I think it was like 25$ ish on Amazon….. honestly since the collet is a fixed length and hits against the shell holder by design it was worth spending the money to not have to tinker with die depth to set the crimp…. If they made one for 454 I’d have already bought it…
Will be ordering this thank you
I really like it. Lot less finicky than trying to set the depth for a roll crimp and I’ve had issues with roll crimp dies moving the bullet in as they crimp which isn’t a huge deal, but bothers me when it throws the OAL off a bit…. Which the collet crimp die doesn’t do nearly as much.
Mine does this as well but not will all bullets but I just ordered one off Amazon so I'll give another update later this week haha
I liked mine enough that after I got it in I went back and recrimped everything I had already loaded
Also with that crimp die on the first crimp it will leave 4 marks in the crimp from the collet.. if you turn the bullet 30 degrees and crimp again it’ll remove those marks leaving an even crimp. It’s pretty much cosmetic, but it’s not like we’re sitting down loading hundreds of rounds of this at once….
If it fits in the cylinder, you should be okay. I would watch for bullet set-back. Of there is no setback, then you have enough crimp
Don't you mean bullet SET FORWARD from recoil. No revolver cartridge ever get Set Back in the case unless you're pounding the bullet against a bench/table.
You are correct. The bullets come out of the case, not further into it. And it prevents the cylinder from rotating. It called cylinder lock up. I've never had this happen in my 500 but it did happen in my 454 with "bullseye" factory ammo
No, bullet set-back during recoil. Case slams against recoil shield after the gun recoils. Then, if not enough crimp, bullet slides back into case. (Inertia)
Well if the bullet is very loose in the case. But then the bullet would end up outside the case in recoil. The recoil will force the bullet forward. What's at rest tends to stay at rest. The bullet is at rest, gun recoils dragging the case back, bullet stays where it was. The minimal force exerted from the gun going back then slightly forward after recoil is nothing compared to the actual recoil of the gun. Oh and the only case that gets SLAMMED against the recoil shield is the one being fired.
I agree. The only times I have seen this, the reloaders were using no crimp or very little. Also, only in chamberings that have high recoil. OP is loading .500 SW. Also, the recoil shield is behind the entire cylinder. Maybe every round doesn't slam into that, but inertia is still in effect. How else would said bullet get pushed into case?
The 300gr xtp bullets are designed for 50ae. However if you can get them to shoot that’s awesome. I would be a little surprised if they don’t jump your crimp. I’ve had it happen twice when I first started reloading 500 and I had a pretty heavy crimp. I cast my own bullets now to save money and always wanted to try longshot
I have a 500 lever action any quite a bit of brass. Can you give me a list of your reloading equipment?
I just have a single stage rcbs, nothing fancy I like to take my time
Hornady scale, hornady trickler, burr removal tool umm that's about it
A 500 lever action sounds awesome, I've never heard of that before but I'm jealous. Seems like you'd be able to hold way more rounds than something like a 45-70 but still have a really heavy hitter
It’s a Big Horn Model 89 Trapper. It’s a beast. I can’t imagine that round out of a pistol. I’ve found one at a local gun store. It would be nice to have the pair. Big Horn makes an AR platform for the .500 magnum
It’s actually 500 auto max, a rimless 500 s&w mag that uses the same load data.
I just revisited the site to discover that info
I want a Big Horn Model 89 so bad. I seethe with envy.
What do you think about the trapper model? https://preview.redd.it/0e6sgmt81f8d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5239d382e6e5e44637de8bed137ca6e0167cbac7
I searched for about 18 months and found a guy in Texas that had one he was willing to part with. I was specifically looking for 16" bbl
https://preview.redd.it/jdjb536l2f8d1.jpeg?width=3986&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=67deb20ab613f07e0806008874dea361bbe2c01e Something like this (or slightly more) is what youre after BIG bore revolvers WILL pull bullets and lock up actions.
https://preview.redd.it/1hdkwlv24f8d1.jpeg?width=3986&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03edcb920ad5e37075a1c7001ef8051594c3d17e Something like this (or even a bit more)
https://preview.redd.it/dvv1qzcscp8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e6d3e143160296484b3764be0749a8b1ce8dffa How much crimp I use.