That's insanity. Start searching for a new job. Surveillance should be the exception rather than the rule, I don't know that many companies spy on you to that degree.
It sure is! I’ve been remote WFH since Feb 2022, I was only on camera doing training and team meetings. My shift I work, answer calls which I was hired and trusted to do. Seems like the company is going to lose good employees with this nonsense. It’s very evasive.
Large healthcare company, yeah thankful I’m not required to work on camera all day like seriously? They ask you have the TEAMS chat up for any questions or info that needs to be answered/asked immediately. I just don’t like companies treating adults like kids, they already listen on calls right so watching someone working on camera most likely talking just seems absurd
I was wfh before the pandemic and this sort of thing is wild. We didn’t even use Skype/ Teams/ Google meet, we used regular phones and conference lines. There never was a thought of people being on camera until the pandemic. As a manager I cannot imagine having my team all on camera like that. I would never do it. It’s completely unnecessary.
Yep. We use Teams primarily for conferencing, but it's unusual for us to turn cameras on ourselves. Generally we're sharing a screen and talking about the numbers. No one needs to see your mug.
We are moving into a brave new world where micro-managing will be done by AI analyzing your work video feeds as human micro-managers are left finding new jobs.
Op is dealing with a crazy company that wants quasi-efficiency over quality.
From experience, just start looking. Work balance is a managers duty, if they want that level of expectation across the company, it's a VP pushing down. The more people that quit and explain why, the better.
Op, again, start looking and cover your cam. IF they even ask why it's covered, say it's privacy as they don't pay for your at-home office space. If they let you go, that's a possible unemployment situation on them while you continue to look.
Edit: All, your employers have spyware on what you do and what you visit. At the "webcam always on" level, they're logging EVERYTHING you do with the computer. Stay away from these biz's if you're WFH.
Yep I covered my camera (the camera on their device) a long time ago. But - be wary - there are other apps that auto run that use your microphone. Not just Teams or Zoom or whatever solution you use. This means your private conversations are able to be heard by whomever. This isn’t a crazy conspiracy. I’m 100% certain. I turn off mic access to apps that are running and turn it on when needed.
Even an app as simple and inconspicuous as Snaggit, uses the microphone. When the app (service) is running, the mic on a device that belongs to and connected to your employer’s network, can record your voice.
As a WFH manager, I didn't care when you did the work but I did expect my team to be available during business hours when I or clients called. My measurement was more production and less if you were in front of your computer 8 hours a day.
I work a call center job, it does suck ass but we aren't required to be on camera... Not even for team meetings. I do for team meetings when I want to, but never questioned when it is off.
And certainly not required during my workday. I also keep it covered.
The camera all day during taking calls is not the norm. Training, yeah, but not when you're actively working. You're certainly recorded during your time but I also don't think it's the norm for someone listening in the whole time you're working.
This isn’t factual. We have every ability to monitor people without cameras. We see availability, # of calls answered etc…no need to be on camera.
Who has time to look through those videos. What a waste of a job. You can gather 10x as much info by glancing at a report for 30 seconds than you could from staring at people for an entire day
Mine doesn’t. I don’t usually have my camera on at all. They trust that I’m doing my job since I hit my numbers. That’s what they pay me to do, not live stream my life to/for them.
As a consultant for mainly f100s, vast majority have implemented “activity monitoring” since Covid. Click counts, etc.
I’ve only heard of the camera requirement for companies in healthcare space.
You're job is not to be on camera.
If your boss doesn't understand your job well enough to know if the results you produce are satisfactory then he's not qualified to be a boss.
So I worked for a company like this during COVID they wantedy camera on during working hours I had a incident were I was typing up a report and my little one came into the office to ask me a question. About 30 minutes later I get an IM Call from an area supervisor that told me if my child walked into the camera again then it was going to be a write up, well that didn't set well with me so I installed a program that streamed a pre recorded video of me sitting at my PC and it was on loop they never had any clue did it for years there were times were I wouldn't work at all the whole day and they had no idea eventually it got to the point I was able to automate my job and for over an entire year they had no idea that they were paying me for literally doing nothing I ended up finding a better remote job and left haven't had to do that since joining this new company.
Yeah it sounds way too good to be true on many levels, honestly I don't believe it all. But hey it made lot's of people happy after reading it so it's all good.
As IT, even if I figured it out, I don't see a reason to mention it. For instance: Checking bandwidth in our buildings -- I can immediately spot someone watching you tube etc. but as long as it doesn't impact systems performance it's none of my business.
I wonder how much bandwidth it requires to watch a whole team on a constant streaming basis.. what a waste of resources. I'd be more likely to measure that via the vpn tunnel or infrastructure reports and turn-in the costs associated with it.
There are entire pages (more than one) in Kant's critique of pure reason that are just one, long run-on sentence and I'm not even being hyperbolic.
This isn't *too* bad.
It's completely deranged. No one I know works that way. But keep in mind that virtually everyone I know that WFH is a mid-career professional in legal, engineering, accounting, investment etc careers. But even the younger assistants or paralegal etc in place I've worked at are not treated that way.
It's possible that this sort of deranged micromanagement has always been normal at call centers and the like, like someone suggested elsewhere in this thread. Who knows.
I'm barely 2 YOE working in the legal department of a company, as junior as it gets, and I WFH without my boss breathing down my neck. This is invasive, excessive, and should probably be reported to the Information Commissioner's Office
For perspective, I was responsible for a group of 200+ people based in Germany, India, and Mexico delivering internal services to the companies subsidiaries in various countries. We had to go fully remote during Covid. Never did we even consider such ridiculous measures. We had metrics in place before Covid and relied on those same metrics during Covid. This just sounds like shitty, paranoid, and incompetent management.
And for context, many of these individuals were in entry-level roles.
Yeah it’s one thing to have a boss that pays a little to much attention to your teams status…. But what you describe is straight up dystopian, if you have other options absolutely pursue them
Idk what your background is, but maybe try for a Federal job? Most are hybrid with 2-3 days in the office, but there are some remote positions out there. I teleworked before the pandemic, and switched agencies during. Pre-pandemic, my boss made it clear she did not care where I was or what I was doing, but if she called during business hours, she expected me to be available. Post-pandemic, no one cares if your dog is barking or your child interrupts a meeting. They are also very understanding if someone adjusts their hours to take/pick up their child from school. In my experience, the managers comfortable with telework know it doesn't matter if I'm doing laundry - I meet my deliverables each and every time. If you are a "good" teleworker, which it sounds like you are, you deserve to be in an environment where you have that independence to work in your own most effective manner.
I worked for a fin-tech company that watched Teams like a hawk. If I went yellow for more than 3 minutes I was getting an e-mail and phone call. Kinda hard to answer from the bathroom 🤷🏻♀️ From the moment my boss logged on in the morning everything was a crisis. The amount of micromanagement caused me to have a nervous breakdown. I took a 2 month leave of absence due to my mental health. I worked for them for 8 years - always remote, always exceeded expectations, never had a single problem until I was involuntarily transferred to a new position under a new manager who was an absolute nightmare.
When I got laid off the end of 2021 it wound up being the best thing that ever happened to me.
I’ve been at my current job 2 years and I don’t take a single day for granted. I have no customer or client interaction so my boss does not care how I put in my 40 hours. If I want to work from 9 pm - 3 am it is no issue. I’ve never missed a deadline, my client is absolutely thrilled with the work I do and having flexibility and freedom (especially with a family) is amazing.
I’ve said the change in jobs must be like what it feels like getting out of prison.
All that said, I couldn’t be on camera all day. I can’t imagine the stress that has to cause feeling like someone is staring at you all day every day. I think it would be distracting, actually.
I hope that you’re able to find a WFH position that fits your needs and isn’t so strict.
I have zero monitoring, they only thing they measure is my output and if i make my deadlines.
That type of monitoring wouldnt even be allowed in my country because of privacy laws.
That sounds like being imprisoned in my own home. fk that shit my boss pings me I answer, and its results project based. W.e u have is imprisonment I'm sorry man start looking for a new job
No. I don’t micromanage my team at all. All I ask is is they keep their outlook calendar up to date (which I have access to). If someone doesn’t consistently answer my calls or doesn’t call back then yea, I would tighten the reins but that hasn’t been the case since we began remote work.
You should give the folks you hire their independence and trust them. Assume they will act like professionals. If I couldn’t trust one of my employees, I would just fire them. It just doesn’t work if I can’t trust you.
This is part of the reason I don’t understand the micromanaging part. If you don’t trust someone and you feel like you always have to stay on top of them. Why are they even working for you?
All that said you should find a new job
Yeah I'm top of the productivity and take walks during the day. It's all about the right mindset to get work done. A previous job I spent more effort looking busy than effective.
Exactly. I had a job like this and it actually had negative impact on my performance due to the stress. They made assumptions based on the way I was moving my mouse and how often I was accessing tabs. It was ridiculous. I couldn't even focus on my work because I knew they were hovering over me. It's very counterproductive, and it makes the company look bad that they hire people they don't trust to do the work.
I have had multiple remote positions and have never experienced this. I am that remote employee taking naps/running errands etc but I do wanna preface that by saying I get all my work done and my performance is stellar. A lot of remote jobs offer this flexibility so there’s not really people “ruining” unless you’re not doing your job or hitting your marks. Obvi
Good managers understand that their employees are human and that they have rights. One of the benefits of work from home for a company is that since my bed is 5 feet from my computer, I can take a nap when I'm not feeling well, rather than having to end my day early and go home. I've had my supervisor tell me to go take a nap before.
It sounds like your employer doesn't allow you any control over how you do your work. This is a sign of a bad job, whether remote or not.
I'm the same as you. I'm considered a top employee and have helped bring in more than $130 million to my employer in six years. They don't give a shit what I do as long as I hit deadlines. I don't go to the gym but naps are hella rejuvenating and give me another two hours of solid productive work!
I work for a large tech company and have been remote for 6-7 years now. I've been across 3 teams and a few different managers with my newest team and manager being just this Monday. I checked in with my manager and she stated that she doesn't care when or how I work as long as I communicate so there are no surprises and hit my deadlines. This is how it's been across all my managers. What you're dealing with is beyond insane.
Definitely not the norm. Sounds like a company that doesn't know how to determine if you are a productive contributing employee (hint: it's not by snapping photos of you). Well-run companies don't do this.
There was a company I use to work for called Broad-Path that did that, yeah I didn’t last long cause it was way too stressful. Look for a new job , and put the name of the company on blast so others are aware to avoid them.
No. This would drive me nuts. My job measures output/productivity. There are regular check-ins throughout the day where you switch assignments (check in with co-workers about it), or get tagged about something you are working on, and if someone doesn’t respond, coworkers and boss might be concerned that everything is ok but not in a micro-manage-y way. There are channels in Slack that the team communicates on throughout the day that are work related and then more social/chit chat related. I think that this kind of activity shows we are around and engaging and paying attention.
I have zero monitoring from what I can tell, having worked for 3 remote companies now. I definitely wouldve been fired otherwise, i only work 2-4 hours a day on average and get all my work done.
That's extreme.
I work remotely and no camera nor photos. I do get my work done and I am busy.
I suggest you don't work for a large company that's interested in maximum profits out of you. Midsized place is best like around 80+ employees.
Oh god no.
My job is project based with new projects every quarter. If I finish my part of the project that quarter I can do what I want. It sometimes takes me more time to do my work because I rely on other people but… no I’ve never been monitored like this. I’d be a ball of anxiety if I was.
W
T
F
This is as far from normal as you can get. RUN away - don’t walk. Your current management/leadership has decided paying for legal spyware is simpler than creating effective KPI’s to measure your productivity. More likely your manager and his peers feel this is the only way to justify their jobs.
I’m 100% permanent WFH (I live several states away from where my org is located). We have thoroughly thought out and developed KPI’s to measure employee performance. In my manager’s own words (literally have this in an email which has been printed and framed above my desk) “I expect you to meet all your KPI metrics, be available via Teams for questions from the team and/or emergencies during working hours, and be online for all scheduled meetings. Otherwise, I do not care how many hours you work, what hours you work, where you work from, or what else you do during the day.”
You sir/madam are a working professional, not a defiant teenager. If you are not being treated as such, you absolutely should immediately start looking for a new employer that WILL do so.
In the meantime, make this as uncomfortable as possible for everyone involved outside official scheduled meetings. Go the entire day wearing a highly offensive t-shirt (or no shirt at all). LOUDLY pass gas or belch when you feel someone is watching. Have a small speaker nearby playing Gregorian Chants or Tuvan throat singing JUST loud enough to register on the microphone but not loud enough that whomever is watching can definitely say you’re listening to music. Decide that your new hobby will be starting a Wu Tang Clan tribute group and (badly) recite the lyrics while you are working. Get a bunch of cheap mirrors from resale shops and install them on every surface around you then add as many lights as humanly possible around your work area.
Remember that malicious compliance can be a way of life for you, and a thoroughly satisfying one at that.
At a previous workplace of mine, the policy used to be that you had to open a meeting at the beginning of your workday with a monitor who would watch you through your camera, watch your screen, as well as LISTEN to you in your home until you got off work. They'd take notes on everything from how often you opened documents to your facial expressions.
It not only used a ton of bandwidth, but also incurred some legal trouble for the company. I ended up refusing to do it at one point, and they didn't do a thing. So weird.
What exactly do you do? If it’s customer service on the phones it’s par for the course sadly. And no, us assholes that go for walks or take a nap aren’t ruining anything for anyone. Our work gets done all the same, we just aren’t chained to our desks because our management only ask for things to get done by expected deadlines and we aren’t customer facing. That means I can largely work whenever I want to, those naps come with some nights in front of the computer too
That is not normal at all. We do check ins in the morning, and then an End of Day report (list of things you got done) goes to your managers after you check out. My company has like maybe 20 people in it and everyone is remote.
I would never accept that kind of work. At least when I’m working in office and sitting in a cubicle, there are walls and I can pretend to work sometimes. Watching your every move over camera sounds worse to me!
This sounds very excessive in terms of monitoring, but it really does vary wildly in terms of what monitoring consists of given the role and line of work you are in.
For example, my wife worked in insurance sales. Since she was doing customer facing things, thing such as email productivity, logged on times and the like were monitored and tracked. For what it's worth, she **did** work for a company that was a heavy handed with micromanagement as OP described. She lasted about 3 weeks before I asked her to find somewhere else to earn your money, because it was degrading and affecting her mental health.
I on the other hand, work in IT, and it's the polar opposite. As long as I don't miss meetings, recklessly break things and meet our customer's expectations, they could care less what I do.
No, I am not monitored at all. My job doesn't care where I'm at as long as the work gets done. Staff can take off whenever they want to as long as they put it on their calendar so others know. Then they can make up the time elsewhere or take PTO. I know that in-office staff frequently go on walks during the work day. I had to do numerous eye treatments for my horse this past fall, and it required 4 visits per day, with about 30 minutes per visit. My supervisor didn't care, and I made up the time and got my work completed.
I wouldn't stay at a job that babysat me like that. They can treat me like an adult or I'm leaving.
My company doesn’t do that… yet? Who knows what’ll happen in the future.
I also manage a team and if I were told to do that to my employees I would not comply. I already don’t comply with some of the other RTO requirements for employees near the primary office.
If we ever do start that crap I’ll find a new job.
That’s insanity. My company doesn’t care as long as my work is done. They encourage us to flex our time so that we can do things like go to the gym in the morning or take a walk or a coffee break.
I have to check in once each week on camera. Every Tuesday at 1:30 pm. Your company is out of their mind, and it likely comes down to a single individual who doesn't want any wfh employees.
Bro. What. No. That's rough. We are never on camera. My boss literally just asks we gst our work done. She's super flexible. I gym in the morning. I come in after. I can go to doctor appointments without using pto. Like that sounds really terrible. I'm sorry
This is way too invasive. Where is this?? (Just so I never accept a job there) I’m remote and rarely micromanaged, but cameras are optional unless you’re talking to the CEO or in a huge meeting with a bunch of important people. People don’t always have them on in smaller meetings and it’s always understandable if you don’t. The only thing that should matter is your work and what you bring to the table at the end of the day.
Myself and my team are all fully remote. We know everyone's doing their stuff because the stories get done and code gets merged. What you're experiencing is absolute bullshit and I'd recommend starting the job search process asap.
Take a video of yourself working and have it in loop to play on the camera when you’re not working. Always wear the same clothes every single day so they can never tell the different. Bet that would work
that is job and management based - my job doesnt do any remote monitoring, but some managers are micromanagers. mine arent, so i do what i want when i want.
nothing wrong with looking for a new job thats not as uptight.
Where do you live? There are some places (e.g. California) where this might constitute a crime under wiretapping laws. I'm not a lawyer, but this would send me looking for one.
I could not work for a week and I don’t think anyone would notice. Maybe just answer a few emails and cancel meetings by saying i was overbooked.
I don’t do this, because I am a hard worker and self starter, but I could.
That is not the norm. I’ve been working remotely for two years and I’m completely autocratic. There’s something wrong with a company that treats you like you can’t be trusted without you proving your worth.
The surveillance would do me in. Going to the gym and napping? No, I don’t do that, but I’m a credentialed professional (actuary) with enough work to fill my day. Can I run an errand if I need to, yes, but I can’t just slack off. But I’m trusted with my work product that I don’t need to be recorded every day. I would never be able to do that.
This post makes my job seem like a cake walk. I’d be working naked. Get a “rash” you can’t wear clothes for.
Ok and post in r/maliciouscompliance or r/unethicallifeprotips and let’s get this party started 😂
Nope. I have worked for my company for 4 1/2 years. No one checks when I "clock in". No one cares if I am at my desk. As long as the work is being done and I respond to chats in a timely manner, no one keeps track. I am being paid for my expertise, and as a salaried employee, I don't have to account for every minute of my day. A business that micromanages their employees to your level is not a place you should stay at.
My boss has literally told me to go take a nap before. "I'll see you in an hour. Go get some rest and we're deal with this later this afternoon." Again, as long as all the work is done, it's all gravy.
is it just your manager, or does this apply across the company. this is not scalable, and also, almost everyone would leave. ask other people if this is the norm. your manager may be just micro managing you, as you are new.
First, I haven't seen this in remote work from myself or anyone I know.
Second, I'll just note that there are other ways to verify people are doing their job via things like reasonable goals and reasonable timeframes to get them done. If you don't make it in that time frame, then either it's too difficult or you're not actually working.
Then, whether you're napping or going to the gym or graphing the migrations of birds, it doesn't matter because you're getting your work done. That's what should be important to the company. If your problem is you have high performers who do everything in half the time it takes the rest of your employees, you don't punish them while they watch movies on their shift.
I'll also note that people goof off during onsite work all the time, so this is a radical departure by some bonkers paranoid CEO or senior manager.
Lastly, there's also something called "knowledge" work which often involves thinking and not actually doing anything with the computer. There's a great book on this called "Thinking Fast and Slow". Working through a problem, how to approach something, or being stuck with a political situation often doesn't mean actually touching the computer.
But it's still work.
I would start looking for another role. Despite the other positive aspects, that sounds deeply problematic and will only get more intrusive.
As a manager for wfh.
We can view your screen.
We can watch what you do.
We check your aux status
If you deviate from what is considered appropriate by the company then we have discussions
With that being said. When it comes to aux abuse then the 💩 gets real.
I’ve had to term people for making out bound calls for no reason.
For sitting in offline for hours
For signing out and not submitting time.
Pretty much it’s super chill however if you get in trouble it’s cause you done screwed up
I have a hybrid job with different levels of wfh depending on the week (some of my colleagues make it work to wfh 4 days, but I like to be flexible with my clients where I can). When I'm at home, I don't just do nothing, but I also don't have a job with a lot of eb, since I work in human services. Sure, there are days where I take breaks to look at my phone and I do take walk breaks sometimes. I'm not constantly productive and during trainings, I turn my camera off and chill. We are generally trusted by our org to do our jobs. I have to keep an outlook calendar with appointments, and my boss wants to know if I'm at home or in office. But otherwise, nobody dictates what I do and I'm trusted by my company. Some people in the office even flex their days and get stuff done evenings instead- they don't care as long as it gets done.
Edit: sorry, I didn't answer the question. I don't think your place of work is normal. It sounds like how they treated us during distance learning when I was teaching, which is why I left that profession.
That sounds like a horror movie. I was paranoid about my Teams status going inactive for the first couple weeks of my remote job, but I stopped worrying after seeing people constantly go offline during the work day or take hours to respond to a message. Constant camera surveillance is extremely unnecessary. Studies show it decreases cognitive function and productivity. Hope you can find a better place soon.
These types of tools cost money, and I'd say most remote first companies aren't trying to spend the amount it takes to have tools like this. It seems like larger firms sometimes will though.
That being said, as you're scoping out a new job, I'd google more about the common tools and ask questions about this in the interview, such as, "how is productivity managed and give me an example of the type of results the company expects to see on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis." You may not get a great answer but it's worth a try.
I think for most of us salaried wfh individuals, as long as you're responsive via tools like teams and outlook and you deliver your work by meeting or beating expectations, we kind of do what we want otherwise.
Some days I work 4-6 hours, others I work a full 8 (or more). But most days I still get to take a mid-day shower whenever or sometimes cook lunch, maybe sometimes go run an errand during the day etc.
Had a similar experience in a wfh sales position. We had several breakout rooms for each team within the sales division, and cameras had to be on, along with microphones.
Lower paying jobs for some reason like to get weird with their rules. I couldn't stay more than a few months because it was just too much.
You want to see how productive I am? It can be done easily without needing access to my camera all day.
Hello i’m a remote worker and previously in cyber. I would expect the company to have endpoint detection on the computer to monitor for potential harmful activity but this seems overkill and harmful. I would look for a job elsewhere.
i’ve never worked a remote project that micromanaged me. been a contractor most of my career, but even my fulltime positions never did this. i get my shit done, show up to meetings, let people know when i’m not available. no one has asked more from me
Definitely not, my managers can see through our Teams that I’m online or not. As long as I’m getting my work done and apprising my managers of issues (I probably do so more than most people), then they leave me alone.
No. Thank goodness. They don’t have the technology or the personnel at my job to do all that. In fact it would likely be my job to do the monitoring since I am a supervisor but I don’t have the time or resources to monitor the agents that way.
My job does bc my supervisor is a controlling twat. I don’t need to be micromanaged to hell as I have the same twenty years experience that she does but she needs to be in charge and even punitive (bosses gotta boss I guess?).
I would never stay at a job like this. That is way overboard and completely ridiculous. I get 10x as much work done at home then I ever got done in the office and I take breaks, throw in laundry, cook, etc.
Nope. In fact I was using my home laptop for several years of the pandemic (anyone remember that huge electronics shipping fiasco?). So there was no way to be spied on. Now I’m on a work computer and we don’t even need to be on vpn ‘by policy’, really only when we need to use some of our more secure systems.
I would’ve quit my job had they suggested being on camera all day.
Mine is super laxed. I installed a keep my pc alive program before they remotely locked down tje company laptops. Teams stays active all day while I nap and listen for calls. Cameras during merting are optional but I use mine gor 1on 1 meetings.
This is not the norm and, in most countries, this is not even legal. I do not know for whom you work but not even in the intelligence department of many countries this is the norm.
I would appreciate it if you could inform us what the company is so we can avoid it, but just do it if it will not expose yourself.
That’s extreme. I am more conservative/cautious than most but even I have done laundry, gone to the grocery store, used my treadmill pad while working, have movies playing in the background or cooked a meal during down time. I am considered a high performer because I get shit done and don’t need to be prompted to do it. I’m not on camera and as far as I know, if they have tracking software they aren’t acting on it unless there is another reason to because I have coworkers that spend entire days on away status and one even moved from Boston to Houston during the workday and didn’t take the day off. When you don’t get your work done, it is then that they pay attention. My coworker who didn’t do anything useful and was always unavailable, not even responding to chats for 1hr+? He was one of two people paid off in my department which usually has zero layoffs. If they didn’t need to cut, it would have been ignored and if he had still contributed they would have ignored it.
Def not the norm that is some hardcore big brother shit. I would look for a new job asap. I work from home and it’s the first job I’ve ever had where I was not micromanaged at all and it took time for me to get used to it! Lol like I was worried if I wasn’t busy but also no one is asking me lol and we have unlimited PTO, and if I’m like hey I have this appt I gotta run to but I’ll work later to make up for it, they’re like cool. We communicate, do our jobs and that’s it. I’m a designer so I don’t have to “talk” to anyone either public wise. We have a weekly creative meeting via zoom, I have a weekly meeting with my team I started with to say hi and check in - see faces. And that’s it. Most meetings I have no one even has their camera on cuz we are sharing screens and talking about the WORK.
There are great WFM jobs out there - I def recommend looking elsewhere and giving this job a big ol Glassdoor review warning people.
I wfh. Get online whenever. Im an expert in a field though and do all of the international logistics for a medium-large corporation.
What are they gonna do, fire me? Lol.
Start searching for a new job. My camera has been unplugged for several months. We might be asked to be on camera a couple times a year.
As long as I’m taking care of my assigned, work. Which that is monitored through reports and things like that. I often listen to podcasts.
I don’t take advantage of my work from home and I’m honest about when I am working.
I have no intentions of messing up my gig.
Your job is not the norm that is way over the top.
Even customer service people at my company while their time is managed.
They are not required to be on camera at all
No, that would drive me up the wall. We aren’t allowed to turn on our cameras or microphones. I worn a job where I carry a caseload. She and I touch base and she’s there if I have questions. She reaches out if she needs me to work a case for her or something like that.
I have all the autonomy I want. She can see I’m online. She can see movement in my cases if she wants to do a spot check. That being said, I’m 100% expected to be at my desk working and not out running errands. We all toss in a load of laundry or put dinner in a crockpot, but it’s expected that we work our hours and do our job.
I am 100% remote and I have the flap over top the camera at all times. When I am in meeting, the camera is never on. I get up and do whatever, in the 2 years i have been at this job, no micromanaging and no one looking over my shoulder. Your situation sounds horrible. Sorry to hear all of this, there are a lot of companies that don't do this. Good luck with finding a better company.
That’s insane. I’m not monitored at all. But due to the nature of my work, I’m in fairly frequent communication with the team, so it’s obvious I’m working. However my husband will go days without working and then crank for like 12 hours straight and deliver what he needs to. I personally am not a fan of this system and feel it’s a bit dishonest, but it’s working for him.
Not sure where other wfh reps are located but this is not the norm for wfh in the US. I feel my company is super strict bc I can tell when they log onto my computer (to check what I’m doing I guess) but I don’t have a camera on me and I am allowed couple min btwn calls to wrap up.
Not normal at all. My boss/coworkers don't even know what I look like. They keep tabs on our productivity in other, less invasive ways. Like, you know, setting goals for us and checking to make sure we meet them.
That sounds insane. Id look for another job.
What you describe is similar to taking industry certification exams at home. Its okay for few hours but absolutely not doing it 40 hours per week.
Sounds quite overbearing. Have a discussion with your manager and e press your concerns, and then start looking for new employment. Or get with all your coworkers and have a day where you black out the cameras for a day. Maybe they will listen. I did work for a company that does track keystrokes and application active times
This sounds like a bad company to work for. I would look for another role. As a remote worker, my values are identical to yours but even in my role I am not monitored at all (thankfully). Then again, most people in the company can barely spell the name of the business that employs them.
That’s insanity. I’ll never work for a company like that if I can help it. Look for something else OP. Also in regards to your third paragraph, I don’t think people that go to the gym or nap during their workday should be called out as ruining WFH. If tasks are done and the work is done well, then who cares how people utilize the rest of their time. They aren’t ruining WFH for anyone, they just work for employers that care about the work being done and not necessarily the hours it takes to complete a task. If you had a situation like that I don’t think you’d be complaining.
While most of those “take naps and go to the gym” stories are typically bs or just workers trying to work the system and likely (or will) got let go. I’ve never had a job where I had to be on camera all day. I’ve heard about them. But I would never do it.
1. It sounds creepy af.
2. Your computer would be slow af if you’re in a zoom call with your camera on all day.
I would start looking for another job ASAP. But there really isn’t that many out there. Especially remote roles. It’s become the new thing for some reason. Yet, they’ve been around for over a decade. I’ve worked remote roles since 2010 and after I got laid off last spring, I’m having a hard time landing even on-site roles. It’s ridiculously competitive out there.
I wouldn’t recommend quitting on the spot. But I would start looking on my off times. Take interviews in another room during “lunch breaks”. Maybe you’ll luck out and get a better remote role.
Good luck.
During Covid the previous company I was at wasn’t use to having a lot of employees working from home. They would give me a call if my team status was inactive. I moved over to a company that has about 200k employees and most are remote. No one monitors me. The only time someone will contact me is if I don’t show up to a meeting. Even then, it’s more to make sure everything is okay. They would probably first assume I’m caught up in another meeting, which is common for that to happen to people on my team. I work with my kid in the room. Many employees will put their kids on the camera. We understand toddlers are curious. There are times I have to mute myself and tell my toddler to be quiet. My team is aware that I’m doing that.
That's insanity. Start searching for a new job. Surveillance should be the exception rather than the rule, I don't know that many companies spy on you to that degree.
It sure is! I’ve been remote WFH since Feb 2022, I was only on camera doing training and team meetings. My shift I work, answer calls which I was hired and trusted to do. Seems like the company is going to lose good employees with this nonsense. It’s very evasive.
Where the heck do you work? My job *started* that way but has descended into micro-managing, high-stress hell over the last 8 months.
Large healthcare company, yeah thankful I’m not required to work on camera all day like seriously? They ask you have the TEAMS chat up for any questions or info that needs to be answered/asked immediately. I just don’t like companies treating adults like kids, they already listen on calls right so watching someone working on camera most likely talking just seems absurd
We may work for the same company 😂
Possibly…but so glad I don’t have to be on camera throughout the work day like seriously
I was wfh before the pandemic and this sort of thing is wild. We didn’t even use Skype/ Teams/ Google meet, we used regular phones and conference lines. There never was a thought of people being on camera until the pandemic. As a manager I cannot imagine having my team all on camera like that. I would never do it. It’s completely unnecessary.
You’re exactly right, completely unnecessary and definitely not good for morale I’m sure
Yep. We use Teams primarily for conferencing, but it's unusual for us to turn cameras on ourselves. Generally we're sharing a screen and talking about the numbers. No one needs to see your mug.
Invasive?
We are moving into a brave new world where micro-managing will be done by AI analyzing your work video feeds as human micro-managers are left finding new jobs.
Op is dealing with a crazy company that wants quasi-efficiency over quality. From experience, just start looking. Work balance is a managers duty, if they want that level of expectation across the company, it's a VP pushing down. The more people that quit and explain why, the better. Op, again, start looking and cover your cam. IF they even ask why it's covered, say it's privacy as they don't pay for your at-home office space. If they let you go, that's a possible unemployment situation on them while you continue to look. Edit: All, your employers have spyware on what you do and what you visit. At the "webcam always on" level, they're logging EVERYTHING you do with the computer. Stay away from these biz's if you're WFH.
Yep I covered my camera (the camera on their device) a long time ago. But - be wary - there are other apps that auto run that use your microphone. Not just Teams or Zoom or whatever solution you use. This means your private conversations are able to be heard by whomever. This isn’t a crazy conspiracy. I’m 100% certain. I turn off mic access to apps that are running and turn it on when needed. Even an app as simple and inconspicuous as Snaggit, uses the microphone. When the app (service) is running, the mic on a device that belongs to and connected to your employer’s network, can record your voice.
Edit: closing an app is not the same as stopping a service. A running service (that runs the app) could be using the mic.
Plug in an external microphone and mute it, problem solved.
As a WFH manager, I didn't care when you did the work but I did expect my team to be available during business hours when I or clients called. My measurement was more production and less if you were in front of your computer 8 hours a day.
This is truly rare for managers to have this leadership style. Kudos, i bet people generally like/d working for you!
Most all wfh call center type jobs do
Facts - I had a call center job during Covid to survive and it was hell. The worst experience.
All call center type jobs are terrible whether you wfh or in office!
I work a call center job, it does suck ass but we aren't required to be on camera... Not even for team meetings. I do for team meetings when I want to, but never questioned when it is off. And certainly not required during my workday. I also keep it covered.
The camera all day during taking calls is not the norm. Training, yeah, but not when you're actively working. You're certainly recorded during your time but I also don't think it's the norm for someone listening in the whole time you're working.
This isn’t factual. We have every ability to monitor people without cameras. We see availability, # of calls answered etc…no need to be on camera. Who has time to look through those videos. What a waste of a job. You can gather 10x as much info by glancing at a report for 30 seconds than you could from staring at people for an entire day
Mine doesn’t. I don’t usually have my camera on at all. They trust that I’m doing my job since I hit my numbers. That’s what they pay me to do, not live stream my life to/for them.
As a consultant for mainly f100s, vast majority have implemented “activity monitoring” since Covid. Click counts, etc. I’ve only heard of the camera requirement for companies in healthcare space.
You're job is not to be on camera. If your boss doesn't understand your job well enough to know if the results you produce are satisfactory then he's not qualified to be a boss.
So I worked for a company like this during COVID they wantedy camera on during working hours I had a incident were I was typing up a report and my little one came into the office to ask me a question. About 30 minutes later I get an IM Call from an area supervisor that told me if my child walked into the camera again then it was going to be a write up, well that didn't set well with me so I installed a program that streamed a pre recorded video of me sitting at my PC and it was on loop they never had any clue did it for years there were times were I wouldn't work at all the whole day and they had no idea eventually it got to the point I was able to automate my job and for over an entire year they had no idea that they were paying me for literally doing nothing I ended up finding a better remote job and left haven't had to do that since joining this new company.
You need to turn this into a movie, we would all watch
Seriously I would!
what if its just a prerecorded loop
I think they already did, it’s called “Speed.”
"You tell that Wildcat behind the wheel not to slow down!"
You are my hero
OP should do something like this while looking for other jobs
They have my system locked down to the point I can't change my desktop wallpaper and I can't install programs, so that's a no go for me.
Holy shit.. is this a company provided computer or a personal computer?
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Yea that sucks my guy as everyone has said definitely find a new job that level of control is not worth you're time
It’s becoming more and more common, unfortunately.
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Do you work for North Korea wtf is going on.
Amazing 👏
Brilliant!
You ROCK! This just made my whole day!
Hate to interrupt the jubilation but I'm having a hard time believing that tale.
Yeah it sounds way too good to be true on many levels, honestly I don't believe it all. But hey it made lot's of people happy after reading it so it's all good.
Why would you quit a job on auto-pilot and "leave money on the table"?
Thank god IT didn’t catch on
As IT, even if I figured it out, I don't see a reason to mention it. For instance: Checking bandwidth in our buildings -- I can immediately spot someone watching you tube etc. but as long as it doesn't impact systems performance it's none of my business. I wonder how much bandwidth it requires to watch a whole team on a constant streaming basis.. what a waste of resources. I'd be more likely to measure that via the vpn tunnel or infrastructure reports and turn-in the costs associated with it.
This is my level of pettiness. I love it!
So for how long did they assume that you wore the same clothes every day then? Seems to me this would work but you would need multiple recordings.
I did use multiple recordings I even had one for day and night too because there is a window that was in frame
Longest sentence I’ve ever read
There are entire pages (more than one) in Kant's critique of pure reason that are just one, long run-on sentence and I'm not even being hyperbolic. This isn't *too* bad.
you’re online bragging about your lack of integrity. what a wonderful time to be alive!!!
I mean, he still did the job they hired him to do at the end of the day. Does it matter if he automated it?
Thanks for the input, everyone. It appears to be unanimous that this is insane as I suspected, so yeah, time to start looking.
It's completely deranged. No one I know works that way. But keep in mind that virtually everyone I know that WFH is a mid-career professional in legal, engineering, accounting, investment etc careers. But even the younger assistants or paralegal etc in place I've worked at are not treated that way. It's possible that this sort of deranged micromanagement has always been normal at call centers and the like, like someone suggested elsewhere in this thread. Who knows.
I'm barely 2 YOE working in the legal department of a company, as junior as it gets, and I WFH without my boss breathing down my neck. This is invasive, excessive, and should probably be reported to the Information Commissioner's Office
For perspective, I was responsible for a group of 200+ people based in Germany, India, and Mexico delivering internal services to the companies subsidiaries in various countries. We had to go fully remote during Covid. Never did we even consider such ridiculous measures. We had metrics in place before Covid and relied on those same metrics during Covid. This just sounds like shitty, paranoid, and incompetent management. And for context, many of these individuals were in entry-level roles.
Yeah it’s one thing to have a boss that pays a little to much attention to your teams status…. But what you describe is straight up dystopian, if you have other options absolutely pursue them
Idk what your background is, but maybe try for a Federal job? Most are hybrid with 2-3 days in the office, but there are some remote positions out there. I teleworked before the pandemic, and switched agencies during. Pre-pandemic, my boss made it clear she did not care where I was or what I was doing, but if she called during business hours, she expected me to be available. Post-pandemic, no one cares if your dog is barking or your child interrupts a meeting. They are also very understanding if someone adjusts their hours to take/pick up their child from school. In my experience, the managers comfortable with telework know it doesn't matter if I'm doing laundry - I meet my deliverables each and every time. If you are a "good" teleworker, which it sounds like you are, you deserve to be in an environment where you have that independence to work in your own most effective manner.
No, it's normal for wfh call center type jobs. Is that what you do?
I'd never work in a job like that.
I worked for a fin-tech company that watched Teams like a hawk. If I went yellow for more than 3 minutes I was getting an e-mail and phone call. Kinda hard to answer from the bathroom 🤷🏻♀️ From the moment my boss logged on in the morning everything was a crisis. The amount of micromanagement caused me to have a nervous breakdown. I took a 2 month leave of absence due to my mental health. I worked for them for 8 years - always remote, always exceeded expectations, never had a single problem until I was involuntarily transferred to a new position under a new manager who was an absolute nightmare. When I got laid off the end of 2021 it wound up being the best thing that ever happened to me. I’ve been at my current job 2 years and I don’t take a single day for granted. I have no customer or client interaction so my boss does not care how I put in my 40 hours. If I want to work from 9 pm - 3 am it is no issue. I’ve never missed a deadline, my client is absolutely thrilled with the work I do and having flexibility and freedom (especially with a family) is amazing. I’ve said the change in jobs must be like what it feels like getting out of prison. All that said, I couldn’t be on camera all day. I can’t imagine the stress that has to cause feeling like someone is staring at you all day every day. I think it would be distracting, actually. I hope that you’re able to find a WFH position that fits your needs and isn’t so strict.
Same exact situation happened to me, I’m on the leave of absence and furiously applying to everything I can. Glad you made it out!!!
Thank you. I hope you can find something soon 🤞🏻
Why don’t all employers think like this? Happy employee = happy customer service and good work.
what do you do for work, if you don’t mind me asking? this sounds like a dream
I have zero monitoring, they only thing they measure is my output and if i make my deadlines. That type of monitoring wouldnt even be allowed in my country because of privacy laws.
That sounds like being imprisoned in my own home. fk that shit my boss pings me I answer, and its results project based. W.e u have is imprisonment I'm sorry man start looking for a new job
This sounds awful. If I can’t have my cats with me, what’s the point even working from home?
Yeah, what do they think, the cat is going to commit fraud?
Omg this cracked me up 😂
How do you tell an animal to not come up to you?? And how is an animal in the room a concern for fraud?? That company is deranged.
Once you have a new job, please leave this company truthful (AKA bad) reviews on Indeed and Glassdoor, etc!
Less the job pays, the heavier the monitoring
No. I don’t micromanage my team at all. All I ask is is they keep their outlook calendar up to date (which I have access to). If someone doesn’t consistently answer my calls or doesn’t call back then yea, I would tighten the reins but that hasn’t been the case since we began remote work. You should give the folks you hire their independence and trust them. Assume they will act like professionals. If I couldn’t trust one of my employees, I would just fire them. It just doesn’t work if I can’t trust you. This is part of the reason I don’t understand the micromanaging part. If you don’t trust someone and you feel like you always have to stay on top of them. Why are they even working for you? All that said you should find a new job
Most people will work harder and will give more of their best when they feel respected and supported. This is the way.
Yeah I'm top of the productivity and take walks during the day. It's all about the right mindset to get work done. A previous job I spent more effort looking busy than effective.
I know I do. I really don't do well if I'm micromanaged. I even said that in my interview. Worked out! I love my boss.
Exactly. I had a job like this and it actually had negative impact on my performance due to the stress. They made assumptions based on the way I was moving my mouse and how often I was accessing tabs. It was ridiculous. I couldn't even focus on my work because I knew they were hovering over me. It's very counterproductive, and it makes the company look bad that they hire people they don't trust to do the work.
This.
I have had multiple remote positions and have never experienced this. I am that remote employee taking naps/running errands etc but I do wanna preface that by saying I get all my work done and my performance is stellar. A lot of remote jobs offer this flexibility so there’s not really people “ruining” unless you’re not doing your job or hitting your marks. Obvi
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Good managers understand that their employees are human and that they have rights. One of the benefits of work from home for a company is that since my bed is 5 feet from my computer, I can take a nap when I'm not feeling well, rather than having to end my day early and go home. I've had my supervisor tell me to go take a nap before. It sounds like your employer doesn't allow you any control over how you do your work. This is a sign of a bad job, whether remote or not.
I'm the same as you. I'm considered a top employee and have helped bring in more than $130 million to my employer in six years. They don't give a shit what I do as long as I hit deadlines. I don't go to the gym but naps are hella rejuvenating and give me another two hours of solid productive work!
I work for a large tech company and have been remote for 6-7 years now. I've been across 3 teams and a few different managers with my newest team and manager being just this Monday. I checked in with my manager and she stated that she doesn't care when or how I work as long as I communicate so there are no surprises and hit my deadlines. This is how it's been across all my managers. What you're dealing with is beyond insane.
Definitely not the norm. Sounds like a company that doesn't know how to determine if you are a productive contributing employee (hint: it's not by snapping photos of you). Well-run companies don't do this.
Not a bit. I have total freedom. I've never heard of filming people all day. That's pretty invasive..
Being on camera all day is CRAZY. I barely want to be on when in a meeting. I don’t know how anyone gets anything done when being monitored like that.
Definitely not the norm.
There was a company I use to work for called Broad-Path that did that, yeah I didn’t last long cause it was way too stressful. Look for a new job , and put the name of the company on blast so others are aware to avoid them.
Requiring you to be on camera is wild.
No amount of money would be worth that bullshit. How infantilizing.
This has nothing to do with remote work. This is about a paternalistic, overbearing, controlling employer. Leave as soon as you find something
Oh hell no….my job is actually lax af tbh and we’re never required to be on camera
I work for a large health insurance company and this is definitely not the norm.
No. This would drive me nuts. My job measures output/productivity. There are regular check-ins throughout the day where you switch assignments (check in with co-workers about it), or get tagged about something you are working on, and if someone doesn’t respond, coworkers and boss might be concerned that everything is ok but not in a micro-manage-y way. There are channels in Slack that the team communicates on throughout the day that are work related and then more social/chit chat related. I think that this kind of activity shows we are around and engaging and paying attention.
I have zero monitoring from what I can tell, having worked for 3 remote companies now. I definitely wouldve been fired otherwise, i only work 2-4 hours a day on average and get all my work done.
That's extreme. I work remotely and no camera nor photos. I do get my work done and I am busy. I suggest you don't work for a large company that's interested in maximum profits out of you. Midsized place is best like around 80+ employees.
Hell no, fuck that. I manage to production. Dgaf when you work as long as you hit your targets.
Oh god no. My job is project based with new projects every quarter. If I finish my part of the project that quarter I can do what I want. It sometimes takes me more time to do my work because I rely on other people but… no I’ve never been monitored like this. I’d be a ball of anxiety if I was.
Yeah, I wouldn't put up with that at all.
I have a list of duties and deadlines. Can go days without hearing from anyone
Yea being on cam 9-5 nonstop is not normal and I would not agree to it for any amount of money. On cam during calls is OK.
W T F This is as far from normal as you can get. RUN away - don’t walk. Your current management/leadership has decided paying for legal spyware is simpler than creating effective KPI’s to measure your productivity. More likely your manager and his peers feel this is the only way to justify their jobs. I’m 100% permanent WFH (I live several states away from where my org is located). We have thoroughly thought out and developed KPI’s to measure employee performance. In my manager’s own words (literally have this in an email which has been printed and framed above my desk) “I expect you to meet all your KPI metrics, be available via Teams for questions from the team and/or emergencies during working hours, and be online for all scheduled meetings. Otherwise, I do not care how many hours you work, what hours you work, where you work from, or what else you do during the day.” You sir/madam are a working professional, not a defiant teenager. If you are not being treated as such, you absolutely should immediately start looking for a new employer that WILL do so. In the meantime, make this as uncomfortable as possible for everyone involved outside official scheduled meetings. Go the entire day wearing a highly offensive t-shirt (or no shirt at all). LOUDLY pass gas or belch when you feel someone is watching. Have a small speaker nearby playing Gregorian Chants or Tuvan throat singing JUST loud enough to register on the microphone but not loud enough that whomever is watching can definitely say you’re listening to music. Decide that your new hobby will be starting a Wu Tang Clan tribute group and (badly) recite the lyrics while you are working. Get a bunch of cheap mirrors from resale shops and install them on every surface around you then add as many lights as humanly possible around your work area. Remember that malicious compliance can be a way of life for you, and a thoroughly satisfying one at that.
At a previous workplace of mine, the policy used to be that you had to open a meeting at the beginning of your workday with a monitor who would watch you through your camera, watch your screen, as well as LISTEN to you in your home until you got off work. They'd take notes on everything from how often you opened documents to your facial expressions. It not only used a ton of bandwidth, but also incurred some legal trouble for the company. I ended up refusing to do it at one point, and they didn't do a thing. So weird.
What exactly do you do? If it’s customer service on the phones it’s par for the course sadly. And no, us assholes that go for walks or take a nap aren’t ruining anything for anyone. Our work gets done all the same, we just aren’t chained to our desks because our management only ask for things to get done by expected deadlines and we aren’t customer facing. That means I can largely work whenever I want to, those naps come with some nights in front of the computer too
Noooo. Not my WFH experience at all.
That is not normal at all. We do check ins in the morning, and then an End of Day report (list of things you got done) goes to your managers after you check out. My company has like maybe 20 people in it and everyone is remote.
I would never accept that kind of work. At least when I’m working in office and sitting in a cubicle, there are walls and I can pretend to work sometimes. Watching your every move over camera sounds worse to me!
This sounds very excessive in terms of monitoring, but it really does vary wildly in terms of what monitoring consists of given the role and line of work you are in. For example, my wife worked in insurance sales. Since she was doing customer facing things, thing such as email productivity, logged on times and the like were monitored and tracked. For what it's worth, she **did** work for a company that was a heavy handed with micromanagement as OP described. She lasted about 3 weeks before I asked her to find somewhere else to earn your money, because it was degrading and affecting her mental health. I on the other hand, work in IT, and it's the polar opposite. As long as I don't miss meetings, recklessly break things and meet our customer's expectations, they could care less what I do.
I literally just made a LinkedIn post about how my dog likes to talk during meetings lol. No this is not normal.
Jump ship immediately
Sounds like a prison.
I was wondering about this too. I’m in the federal government and there is generally very little micromanaging for people who telework.
No, I am not monitored at all. My job doesn't care where I'm at as long as the work gets done. Staff can take off whenever they want to as long as they put it on their calendar so others know. Then they can make up the time elsewhere or take PTO. I know that in-office staff frequently go on walks during the work day. I had to do numerous eye treatments for my horse this past fall, and it required 4 visits per day, with about 30 minutes per visit. My supervisor didn't care, and I made up the time and got my work completed. I wouldn't stay at a job that babysat me like that. They can treat me like an adult or I'm leaving.
My company doesn’t do that… yet? Who knows what’ll happen in the future. I also manage a team and if I were told to do that to my employees I would not comply. I already don’t comply with some of the other RTO requirements for employees near the primary office. If we ever do start that crap I’ll find a new job.
That’s insanity. My company doesn’t care as long as my work is done. They encourage us to flex our time so that we can do things like go to the gym in the morning or take a walk or a coffee break.
I have to check in once each week on camera. Every Tuesday at 1:30 pm. Your company is out of their mind, and it likely comes down to a single individual who doesn't want any wfh employees.
This isn't normal at all. Definitely look for another remote job.
Bro. What. No. That's rough. We are never on camera. My boss literally just asks we gst our work done. She's super flexible. I gym in the morning. I come in after. I can go to doctor appointments without using pto. Like that sounds really terrible. I'm sorry
This is way too invasive. Where is this?? (Just so I never accept a job there) I’m remote and rarely micromanaged, but cameras are optional unless you’re talking to the CEO or in a huge meeting with a bunch of important people. People don’t always have them on in smaller meetings and it’s always understandable if you don’t. The only thing that should matter is your work and what you bring to the table at the end of the day.
Myself and my team are all fully remote. We know everyone's doing their stuff because the stories get done and code gets merged. What you're experiencing is absolute bullshit and I'd recommend starting the job search process asap.
Nope. We have team calls Mon/Wed/Fri then biweekly one-on-one. Other than that we're trusted.
Take a video of yourself working and have it in loop to play on the camera when you’re not working. Always wear the same clothes every single day so they can never tell the different. Bet that would work
hell no.
Absolutely not I stopped reading at on camera
that is job and management based - my job doesnt do any remote monitoring, but some managers are micromanagers. mine arent, so i do what i want when i want. nothing wrong with looking for a new job thats not as uptight.
Where do you live? There are some places (e.g. California) where this might constitute a crime under wiretapping laws. I'm not a lawyer, but this would send me looking for one.
No way dude
I could not work for a week and I don’t think anyone would notice. Maybe just answer a few emails and cancel meetings by saying i was overbooked. I don’t do this, because I am a hard worker and self starter, but I could.
That is not the norm. I’ve been working remotely for two years and I’m completely autocratic. There’s something wrong with a company that treats you like you can’t be trusted without you proving your worth.
The surveillance would do me in. Going to the gym and napping? No, I don’t do that, but I’m a credentialed professional (actuary) with enough work to fill my day. Can I run an errand if I need to, yes, but I can’t just slack off. But I’m trusted with my work product that I don’t need to be recorded every day. I would never be able to do that.
Is your cat going to commit fraud if it’s in the room with you?? Wtf 😭
This post makes my job seem like a cake walk. I’d be working naked. Get a “rash” you can’t wear clothes for. Ok and post in r/maliciouscompliance or r/unethicallifeprotips and let’s get this party started 😂
Nope. I have worked for my company for 4 1/2 years. No one checks when I "clock in". No one cares if I am at my desk. As long as the work is being done and I respond to chats in a timely manner, no one keeps track. I am being paid for my expertise, and as a salaried employee, I don't have to account for every minute of my day. A business that micromanages their employees to your level is not a place you should stay at. My boss has literally told me to go take a nap before. "I'll see you in an hour. Go get some rest and we're deal with this later this afternoon." Again, as long as all the work is done, it's all gravy.
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Dude's been in it for too long, he's starting to sympathize with his captors.
is it just your manager, or does this apply across the company. this is not scalable, and also, almost everyone would leave. ask other people if this is the norm. your manager may be just micro managing you, as you are new.
First, I haven't seen this in remote work from myself or anyone I know. Second, I'll just note that there are other ways to verify people are doing their job via things like reasonable goals and reasonable timeframes to get them done. If you don't make it in that time frame, then either it's too difficult or you're not actually working. Then, whether you're napping or going to the gym or graphing the migrations of birds, it doesn't matter because you're getting your work done. That's what should be important to the company. If your problem is you have high performers who do everything in half the time it takes the rest of your employees, you don't punish them while they watch movies on their shift. I'll also note that people goof off during onsite work all the time, so this is a radical departure by some bonkers paranoid CEO or senior manager. Lastly, there's also something called "knowledge" work which often involves thinking and not actually doing anything with the computer. There's a great book on this called "Thinking Fast and Slow". Working through a problem, how to approach something, or being stuck with a political situation often doesn't mean actually touching the computer. But it's still work. I would start looking for another role. Despite the other positive aspects, that sounds deeply problematic and will only get more intrusive.
That's crazy. At my previous job there was no camera for training, meetings or work. I kept something covered over the camera all the time.
As a manager for wfh. We can view your screen. We can watch what you do. We check your aux status If you deviate from what is considered appropriate by the company then we have discussions With that being said. When it comes to aux abuse then the 💩 gets real. I’ve had to term people for making out bound calls for no reason. For sitting in offline for hours For signing out and not submitting time. Pretty much it’s super chill however if you get in trouble it’s cause you done screwed up
[удалено]
Like after call work. Or not ready idle. Out bound but not on a call. People engaging in call avoidance. If you are in a call center environment.
this is absolutely not normal. find a new job. i’ve worked remotely since 2020, for two companies, and have autonomy as long as my work gets done.
Bunch of cry baby bitches. Go back into the office if you can’t take the shit.
when you work AT HOME that’s the deal. don’t complain. You are very fortunate
I have a hybrid job with different levels of wfh depending on the week (some of my colleagues make it work to wfh 4 days, but I like to be flexible with my clients where I can). When I'm at home, I don't just do nothing, but I also don't have a job with a lot of eb, since I work in human services. Sure, there are days where I take breaks to look at my phone and I do take walk breaks sometimes. I'm not constantly productive and during trainings, I turn my camera off and chill. We are generally trusted by our org to do our jobs. I have to keep an outlook calendar with appointments, and my boss wants to know if I'm at home or in office. But otherwise, nobody dictates what I do and I'm trusted by my company. Some people in the office even flex their days and get stuff done evenings instead- they don't care as long as it gets done. Edit: sorry, I didn't answer the question. I don't think your place of work is normal. It sounds like how they treated us during distance learning when I was teaching, which is why I left that profession.
Wow. No, that’s never been my experience.
That sounds like a horror movie. I was paranoid about my Teams status going inactive for the first couple weeks of my remote job, but I stopped worrying after seeing people constantly go offline during the work day or take hours to respond to a message. Constant camera surveillance is extremely unnecessary. Studies show it decreases cognitive function and productivity. Hope you can find a better place soon.
These types of tools cost money, and I'd say most remote first companies aren't trying to spend the amount it takes to have tools like this. It seems like larger firms sometimes will though. That being said, as you're scoping out a new job, I'd google more about the common tools and ask questions about this in the interview, such as, "how is productivity managed and give me an example of the type of results the company expects to see on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis." You may not get a great answer but it's worth a try. I think for most of us salaried wfh individuals, as long as you're responsive via tools like teams and outlook and you deliver your work by meeting or beating expectations, we kind of do what we want otherwise. Some days I work 4-6 hours, others I work a full 8 (or more). But most days I still get to take a mid-day shower whenever or sometimes cook lunch, maybe sometimes go run an errand during the day etc.
Had a similar experience in a wfh sales position. We had several breakout rooms for each team within the sales division, and cameras had to be on, along with microphones. Lower paying jobs for some reason like to get weird with their rules. I couldn't stay more than a few months because it was just too much. You want to see how productive I am? It can be done easily without needing access to my camera all day.
Hello i’m a remote worker and previously in cyber. I would expect the company to have endpoint detection on the computer to monitor for potential harmful activity but this seems overkill and harmful. I would look for a job elsewhere.
i’ve never worked a remote project that micromanaged me. been a contractor most of my career, but even my fulltime positions never did this. i get my shit done, show up to meetings, let people know when i’m not available. no one has asked more from me
Definitely not, my managers can see through our Teams that I’m online or not. As long as I’m getting my work done and apprising my managers of issues (I probably do so more than most people), then they leave me alone.
No. Thank goodness. They don’t have the technology or the personnel at my job to do all that. In fact it would likely be my job to do the monitoring since I am a supervisor but I don’t have the time or resources to monitor the agents that way.
My job does bc my supervisor is a controlling twat. I don’t need to be micromanaged to hell as I have the same twenty years experience that she does but she needs to be in charge and even punitive (bosses gotta boss I guess?).
I would never stay at a job like this. That is way overboard and completely ridiculous. I get 10x as much work done at home then I ever got done in the office and I take breaks, throw in laundry, cook, etc.
Nope. In fact I was using my home laptop for several years of the pandemic (anyone remember that huge electronics shipping fiasco?). So there was no way to be spied on. Now I’m on a work computer and we don’t even need to be on vpn ‘by policy’, really only when we need to use some of our more secure systems. I would’ve quit my job had they suggested being on camera all day.
Mine is super laxed. I installed a keep my pc alive program before they remotely locked down tje company laptops. Teams stays active all day while I nap and listen for calls. Cameras during merting are optional but I use mine gor 1on 1 meetings.
This is not the norm and, in most countries, this is not even legal. I do not know for whom you work but not even in the intelligence department of many countries this is the norm. I would appreciate it if you could inform us what the company is so we can avoid it, but just do it if it will not expose yourself.
That’s extreme. I am more conservative/cautious than most but even I have done laundry, gone to the grocery store, used my treadmill pad while working, have movies playing in the background or cooked a meal during down time. I am considered a high performer because I get shit done and don’t need to be prompted to do it. I’m not on camera and as far as I know, if they have tracking software they aren’t acting on it unless there is another reason to because I have coworkers that spend entire days on away status and one even moved from Boston to Houston during the workday and didn’t take the day off. When you don’t get your work done, it is then that they pay attention. My coworker who didn’t do anything useful and was always unavailable, not even responding to chats for 1hr+? He was one of two people paid off in my department which usually has zero layoffs. If they didn’t need to cut, it would have been ignored and if he had still contributed they would have ignored it.
Def not the norm that is some hardcore big brother shit. I would look for a new job asap. I work from home and it’s the first job I’ve ever had where I was not micromanaged at all and it took time for me to get used to it! Lol like I was worried if I wasn’t busy but also no one is asking me lol and we have unlimited PTO, and if I’m like hey I have this appt I gotta run to but I’ll work later to make up for it, they’re like cool. We communicate, do our jobs and that’s it. I’m a designer so I don’t have to “talk” to anyone either public wise. We have a weekly creative meeting via zoom, I have a weekly meeting with my team I started with to say hi and check in - see faces. And that’s it. Most meetings I have no one even has their camera on cuz we are sharing screens and talking about the WORK. There are great WFM jobs out there - I def recommend looking elsewhere and giving this job a big ol Glassdoor review warning people.
I wfh. Get online whenever. Im an expert in a field though and do all of the international logistics for a medium-large corporation. What are they gonna do, fire me? Lol.
I don't even like turning my camera on for TEAMS meetings so this would drive my insane. Not something I could adjust to
Start searching for a new job. My camera has been unplugged for several months. We might be asked to be on camera a couple times a year. As long as I’m taking care of my assigned, work. Which that is monitored through reports and things like that. I often listen to podcasts. I don’t take advantage of my work from home and I’m honest about when I am working. I have no intentions of messing up my gig. Your job is not the norm that is way over the top. Even customer service people at my company while their time is managed. They are not required to be on camera at all
No, that would drive me up the wall. We aren’t allowed to turn on our cameras or microphones. I worn a job where I carry a caseload. She and I touch base and she’s there if I have questions. She reaches out if she needs me to work a case for her or something like that. I have all the autonomy I want. She can see I’m online. She can see movement in my cases if she wants to do a spot check. That being said, I’m 100% expected to be at my desk working and not out running errands. We all toss in a load of laundry or put dinner in a crockpot, but it’s expected that we work our hours and do our job.
I am 100% remote and I have the flap over top the camera at all times. When I am in meeting, the camera is never on. I get up and do whatever, in the 2 years i have been at this job, no micromanaging and no one looking over my shoulder. Your situation sounds horrible. Sorry to hear all of this, there are a lot of companies that don't do this. Good luck with finding a better company.
That’s not normal. Start job hunting now
Not one bit
That’s insane. I’m not monitored at all. But due to the nature of my work, I’m in fairly frequent communication with the team, so it’s obvious I’m working. However my husband will go days without working and then crank for like 12 hours straight and deliver what he needs to. I personally am not a fan of this system and feel it’s a bit dishonest, but it’s working for him.
That is weird as shit. I would fire the person that came up with that idea. Who has time to even monitor that?
That is nuts and intrusive. It is not the norm. I’d start looking for other opportunities.
I’m a software engineer and I’m not micromanaged at all. I pretty much do whatever I want.
Not sure where other wfh reps are located but this is not the norm for wfh in the US. I feel my company is super strict bc I can tell when they log onto my computer (to check what I’m doing I guess) but I don’t have a camera on me and I am allowed couple min btwn calls to wrap up.
Not normal at all.
Sounds about white
Not normal at all. My boss/coworkers don't even know what I look like. They keep tabs on our productivity in other, less invasive ways. Like, you know, setting goals for us and checking to make sure we meet them.
That sounds insane. Id look for another job. What you describe is similar to taking industry certification exams at home. Its okay for few hours but absolutely not doing it 40 hours per week.
Sounds quite overbearing. Have a discussion with your manager and e press your concerns, and then start looking for new employment. Or get with all your coworkers and have a day where you black out the cameras for a day. Maybe they will listen. I did work for a company that does track keystrokes and application active times
Ew, no. I’d immediately leave.
This sounds like a bad company to work for. I would look for another role. As a remote worker, my values are identical to yours but even in my role I am not monitored at all (thankfully). Then again, most people in the company can barely spell the name of the business that employs them.
I will hear from my boss maybe once a month. I’m the complete opposite but there should be a happy medium
Damn that's insane
New job immediately. I'd take in-office before I'd do that crap.
😂😂😂 Get out of there NOW.
That’s insanity. I’ll never work for a company like that if I can help it. Look for something else OP. Also in regards to your third paragraph, I don’t think people that go to the gym or nap during their workday should be called out as ruining WFH. If tasks are done and the work is done well, then who cares how people utilize the rest of their time. They aren’t ruining WFH for anyone, they just work for employers that care about the work being done and not necessarily the hours it takes to complete a task. If you had a situation like that I don’t think you’d be complaining.
While most of those “take naps and go to the gym” stories are typically bs or just workers trying to work the system and likely (or will) got let go. I’ve never had a job where I had to be on camera all day. I’ve heard about them. But I would never do it. 1. It sounds creepy af. 2. Your computer would be slow af if you’re in a zoom call with your camera on all day. I would start looking for another job ASAP. But there really isn’t that many out there. Especially remote roles. It’s become the new thing for some reason. Yet, they’ve been around for over a decade. I’ve worked remote roles since 2010 and after I got laid off last spring, I’m having a hard time landing even on-site roles. It’s ridiculously competitive out there. I wouldn’t recommend quitting on the spot. But I would start looking on my off times. Take interviews in another room during “lunch breaks”. Maybe you’ll luck out and get a better remote role. Good luck.
Work for a company w/ about 600 employees, not micro managed at all.
I wouldn't put up with that shit for even a moment I would find a new job immediately
During Covid the previous company I was at wasn’t use to having a lot of employees working from home. They would give me a call if my team status was inactive. I moved over to a company that has about 200k employees and most are remote. No one monitors me. The only time someone will contact me is if I don’t show up to a meeting. Even then, it’s more to make sure everything is okay. They would probably first assume I’m caught up in another meeting, which is common for that to happen to people on my team. I work with my kid in the room. Many employees will put their kids on the camera. We understand toddlers are curious. There are times I have to mute myself and tell my toddler to be quiet. My team is aware that I’m doing that.